The question should be: How did Obama Bow resonate with those Japanses people who want our military bases in Japan closed. A nice respectful bow goes a long way to placating them. And maybe gets some cash and bodies for ASTAN Lot more in play here than most rightists willing to see but then they have a relatively black and white unthinking worldview... Simple really that might explain the morass left for the adults to clean up
- WarLord
*raised eyebrows* really chris? it's a bad thing for a guest in a foreign country to respectfully observe the local customs? hmmmm, maybe it's the lack of that behavior that has helped gain american tourists their horrific international reputation.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
LOL @ equating liberalism and a "broader view" of the world.
- Spencer
From your narrow perspective, I suppose this would be amusing. After all, it's kinda tough to get a broader view of the world from beneath a rock.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
*makes face* Really Chris? You're going to support her? She is a hypocrite. Not because she's against gay marriage. Her hypocrisy has *nothing* to do with that. She is nobody's icon. She represents herself (badly)...and just like Palin, she should be dumped by any intelligent conservative for the whack-job she is.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Of course WellPoint studies are going to "show" that...it's in their interest to do so. Never mind that private insurers have already noted that they WILL raise premiums in (timing) conjunction with reform, to make it appear as though the hikes are a result of the reform. It's a scare tactic to keep control in the hands of big insurance...which is costing the nation more in waste and poor health care coverage and practice than any reform will EVER cost us.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
But if they raise rates a lot, people will just switch to the public option.
- Andrew C
Exactly, Andrew. And because of that reality the prices will not increase exponentially.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
That is not going to be the case, the Gov option will be deliberetely under priced for the purpose of getting people on the Gov plan as I am sure that many employers will be happy to unload people onto the Gov plan to save a buck and all the while we will not see an equivalant increase in our pay so in effect we will see our compensation reduced. To suggest that the Gov will magically...
more...
- Brian
from FreshFeed
To put the $170,000 into perspective that would pay for my health care premiums for 34 years! I find it amazing that people want us to believe that Gov will be cheaper when they have saddled every US citizen with the equivalent of 34 years of private health care premiums even after taking 15% of our lifetime earnings!
- Brian
from FreshFeed
$170K thats one ride in ambulance to ER, admission Cardio Intensve Care and that triple bypass
- WarLord
Doesn't matter, Obama care passes defeated filibustered whatever - "for profit" healthcare is unsustainable I give it 5 years and Medicare will be extended to all ages
- WarLord
Another thing that bugs me is how the left say that private insurance is so bad and wasteful yet nobody from their side has seen that as an opportunity to enter the market themselves and provide a better service which would trounce all over the current flock of wasteful, evil insurance COs. They have billionaires like Soros, Google founders, Jobs willing to poor 100s of millions funding Dem campaigns yet they can't and will not fund a venture with so much obvious potential?
- Brian
from FreshFeed
Brian my union is self funded in our health care insurance for our members but then the right aint much for unions doing good so its pointless to call you on the dumbness of your statement. Oddly enough the day we went self funded the insurance company we'd been using rebid the contract at a 50% reduction in their fee. Amazing coincidence
- WarLord
Who says that we are not for union workers doing good. We refer mostly to the rediculous situations like the auto COs having to pay people to do nothing without time limits to find work or even being required to take a job, deliberate efforts to prevent productivity like making sure workers did not do anything but their specific and limited function even when they had extra time during...
more...
- Brian
from FreshFeed
You mention that the day you went self funded your costs went down, that is exactly our point, we should promote more competition and options by allowing competition across state lines, allowing more consumer choice in what type of insurance they buy rather than highly regulated markets where Gov mandates your coverages which would be like writing a law requiring all auto manufacturers...
more...
- Brian
from FreshFeed
Brian you asked why nobody entered the market if insurance rip off people, I answered that many unions do directly compete avoiding paying profits and hue CEO comp package. State Regulation is a different article that gets in the guts of coverage MN as do many states spcify a list of illnesses that must be covered I wouldn't trade MN list for the crappy Texas list not so BTW consumer...
more...
- WarLord
@War Lord: you say that private insurance is not sustainable but you have yet to explain to us just how you come to the conclusion that Medicare and SSI type Gov run systems are. At least when a private Co charges too much I have the option not to buy it while when the Gov does the same I will be prosecuted and imprisoned if I refuse to buy what they are selling. Take SSI, if you make...
more...
- Brian
from FreshFeed
It's just amazing that people think the government can run healthcare efficiently. The majority of people in America have health insurance, but as usual, everyone has to be screwed so the government can take over.
- Spencer
Spencer, your faith in private insurance would be cute if you weren't effectively advocating for a lot of people to suffer recissions and procedure denials.
- Andrew C
from Android
Faith has nothing to do with it. I just have enough common sense to know the government would handle it worse. If you think denials and such won't happen under the government, you are sorely mistaken.
- Spencer
Of course denials will happen, Spencer. However, the common sense you're quoting here is inapplicable -- read this to understand a few of the problems with private insurance (and no, you're not the person I was addressing in the blog): http://therearethornstoo.blogspot.com/2009...
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Hot Air » Blog Archive » Report: Hasan attended same radical mosque as 9/11 hijackers; Update: “He was a typical fundamentalist Muslim” - http://hotair.com/archive...
So heres the key question: If Osama and his AQ are able to brainwash an Americna citizen into becoming a terrorist and then use him to plan and launch an attack on American Soil in TEXAS inside a huge US Army post than what exactly is the purpose of the American incursion into Afghanistan.Not to prevent organizing planning of terrorist activities... Clearly we are out flanked by open source insurgency #4GW
- WarLord
Mark Steyn would be more convincing if he acknowledged that violent terrorists have emerged from all three major branches of the Abrahamic tradition -- Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Steyn is not a big thinker -- he's a two-bit propagandist and inciter. I would love to debate him here on these issues. But most neocons tend to run for the hills when confronted with intellectual...
more...
- Sean McBride
So, what would you have done if it was a Christian shouting "God Is Great" before killing 12 and wounding 30, what would you have done if it was a Jew shouting "Elohim Gadol", what would you have done if it was an atheist shouting "Hey Look, Chocolate Chip Cookies"? Religion has nothing to do with this shooting, unless Hasan admits that he indeed is a Jihadist. Until then, I feel for you, you xenophobic, zealous fear & hate mongering jumping to conclusions fringer.
- Rene Wirtz
How could you possibly come to the conclusion that religion had nothing to do with this? You libs are so damn blind about this stuff. You can't bring yourself to admit that radical Muslims live among us. Religion had EVERYTHING to do with this.
- Chris Jones
Yes, so what, muslims live among us. Are they all Jihadist now? Do you really believe that? Should we just deport or jail everyone who is muslim? I find religious zealots equally threatening, whether they are Christians, Jews, Muslims or whatever organized crime, whoops, religion, they belong to.
- Rene Wirtz
Chris, same question I addressed to Spencer in your other moronic thread...: would you react so stupidly if his name was western and he killed people based on Christian ideology? Or are you one of those morons who sees abortion clinic bombings as "God's will"? Terrorism comes in many forms, and is not limited to those with "Muslim-sounding names".
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
How has anybody acted "stupidly"? There's no problem to piss on anything related to a cross or Christianity, but we cannot say ONE WORD about islam. The fact is this guy was islamic, he praised suicide bombings, and he killed soliders while screaming islamic phrases. Yeah, lets put our head in the sand and ignore it. Sorry, but the left is so naive.
- Spencer
Spencer, you're an idiot. Really. So what if he was Muslim? Deflecting my specific question and turning it BACK to what you want to focus on answered the question for you. Good job.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Attacking Muslims as a whole for the behavior of Nidal Hasan would be exactly like attacking Christians as a whole for the behavior of George W. Bush (he launched the most disastrous war in American history under the belief he was fighting Armageddon) or attacking Jews as a whole for the behavior of Bernard Madoff (Madoff was a leading member of the Jewish establishment). Bush and...
more...
- Sean McBride
Thanks Denise, your insult is common among the left lately. Regardless, I can't answer your question because I have seen nothing "stupidly". The question should be asked to you. If it was a Christian would you not be associating it with the "wingnuts". Why do we have to ignore the fact that he is islamic and that it may have had motive with the shootings?
- Spencer
I haven't seen an update today, but I read that the feds did have an eye on him because of his talk about suicide bombings and the like. I would bet they couldn't approach him because they would be labeled as "racists" or something.
- Spencer
And yet, the feds waited all this time to do anything about it (and now it is too late), makes you wonder if they were just throwing oil on the fire, doesn't it?!
- Rene Wirtz
Spencer, you're spouting a typical circular argument. There is no insult here - just pointing a plain and simple fact of idiocy. When "Christians" commit those sorts of atrocities - I most certainly DO call it wingnuttery...and worse: TERRORISM. Try educating yourself...otherwise, as I noted elsewhere, you're wasting time.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
By bringing religion to the argument you have de facto lost the argument!
- Rene Wirtz
Thanks for proving my point. Once again, naive liberals.
- Spencer
And thanks for proving mine, since I'm not a liberal - but you most certainly are an idiot.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Thank you. When a liberals, oh sorry, progressive maybe, results to insults that only shows they can't win the argument through logical discussion. Now go, Al Gore needs you to go buy some carbon credits.
- Spencer
Oh please, enough already with the weak attempt at political labelling, Spencer. Go find a hobby that you can actually figure out. Maybe underwater basketweaving.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Funny that you mention "logical" and "discussion" in the same sentence, because you can't seem to do either.
- Rene Wirtz
Come on Spencer, try a little harder. We all know how you really feel. Don't hold back, please. I, for one, thinks you're a waste of space and a sorry excuse for a human being and a perfect good example of why abortion is a good thing. See, it's really not that difficult ... you gotta have the balls, though.
- Rene Wirtz
Genuine testicular fortitude is not a trait common to wingnutters, Rene. This is not a big surprise to anyone...*giggle*
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Well, to be honest, most liberal women I have ran into have a set of balls unfortunately. ;)
- Spencer
Yet another conversation that proves I'm glad to have blocked Rene and Denise :)
- Craig Eddy
Ah Craig only blocked us AFTER this conversation, otherwise I wouldn't have seen the comment. Good job, Craig Eddy - lol!
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Regardless, as long as fringer racist haters like Spencer, Craig, David and Noah are posting to US Politics they're gonna run into us, because I will keep calling BS whenever I see it, and fact of the matter is that pretty much anything that eminates from these "people" is utter and odious bovine scatology *grin*
- Rene Wirtz
Months from now when Fort Hood turns out to be "Blue Suicide" the Bachmann followers going to come back here and recant this... I'm guessing not
- WarLord
@WarLord: of course they are not going to recant this, because they never really meant it this way, we just misunderstood them.
- Rene Wirtz
Rene, well said - all of your comments in this conversation.
- jcunwired
If this Fort Hood attack was a religious based Islamic Terrorist attack on US soil in a military base doesn't it mean that 8 years of war in Iraq and AStan FAILED. Gitmo FAILED all the other wiretaps and torure rendition predators FAILED to make us safer. 8 years of Cheney Failed since Osama could reach out into the heartland of america and kill.
- WarLord
Spencer, never underestimate the liberal's ability to completely ignore logic and reason. Besides, Rene and Denise are the husband and wife troll team. They constantly attack anyone with conservative opinions. Their typical M.O. is to try to bait you into a discussion, then they hurl insults at you while you waste time and energy trying to reason with them. They are a prime example of whom we are fighting in our own country to keep America free.
- David C. Cooper
The other trolls in this thread aren't worthy of mention. >.>
- David C. Cooper
David, genuine intelligent conservatism is ALWAYS welcome; you, however, represent neither intelligence nor conservatism - and you're in NO way genuine. Go crawl back under your rock.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
LOL, thanks for proving my point Denise. ^^
- David C. Cooper
Nothing could be further from authentic American conservatism than messianic ethno-religious nationalism and fundamentalism.
- Sean McBride
David you just had to be a dick. You know, I was one of the few people in this particular group who actually took the time to defend you. And people here know it. I actually tried to prove Rene wrong by being polite and civil to you -- but my husband was right about you after all. You're in a group where you choose to act like a complete jackass 99.9% of the time, and then have the audacity to call anyone else a troll. Very rich. Asshole.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
David Cooper is allied with Christian Zionist political forces that are hell-bent on turning America into a fundamentalist theocracy -- he is hardly fighting for our freedoms -- quite the contrary. Judeo-Christian fascism and traditional American freedoms are not remotely compatible.
- Sean McBride
@David: ah, nevermind. Sucks seeing the same tactics you use, doesn't it. Anyway, not wasting any more words on your ignorane, hate, racism, exceptionalism, bigotism, fascism and zealous behavior. And at least Denise and I are actually two people, as opposed you and that coward alter ego of yours, piltord! Or is David the coward? Hmmmm, the conundrum!
- Rene Wirtz
Doesn't really matter which, come to that. Whichever identity he goes by, he is a coward. His duplicity and disingenuous tactics had to be shown by another user...which was brilliantly entertaining to watch...but there was no way he would have openly admitted it without the evidence as clearly presented as it was.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
@David Yes, these are typical liberals. I would almost feel sorry for them, but they choose to be ignorant.
- Spencer
Spencer: you just wrote in Conservative Oasis: "The moonbats are out in the full force today. As always, doing what they can to defend islamic terrorists." I haven't seen anyone "defend Islamic terrorists" -- please provide some examples. I *have* seen many people, from all across the political spectrum (not just "liberals"), argue that smearing all Muslims on the basis of the behavior...
more...
- Sean McBride
Likely, Sean, he won't answer with anything relevant. He's so caught up spinning around in his echo chamber (accusing others of head-in-the-sand, moonbat, kool-aid drinking behavior) that he fails to see where his ignorant hypocrisy has blinded him to what people "like us" keep trying to point out - and that it has nothing to do with "defending Islamic terrorists" - which is ridiculous to even suggest, of course. *smirk*
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
To be honest, I have never seen Spencer engage in rational conversation on Friendfeed, and I have encouraged him to do so several times. Typically he disappears when he finds himself unable to defend his beliefs in a logical manner.
- Sean McBride
Your "rational" is different than others obviously. If I remember correctly, Sean thinks Jimmy Carter is someone to listen to. I haven't smeared the entire islamic religion, I simply made a factual point that some people are afraid to admit. They are either afraid of "offending" someone, or are just afraid to admit the truth. It is factual to say that islam has a problem with radicals and with so-called "moderates".
- Spencer
And yet you still evade the actual question Sean asked you...why is that? He asked you, point-blank, "I haven't seen anyone "defend Islamic terrorists" -- please provide some examples. I *have* seen many people, from all across the political spectrum (not just "liberals"), argue that smearing all Muslims on the basis of the behavior of a few Muslims is bigoted, unfair and un-American....
more...
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
To MSNBC the Least Important Thing about Killer Army Doctor is He was a Muslim Who Lauded Suicide Bombers: Meltdown with Keith Olbermann Part 14 « NewsReal Blog - http://newsrealblog.com/2009...
@Chris: I guess you are one of those idiots who thinks terrorism is limited to "them"...
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Terrorism isn't limited to "them", nor one religion. However, only a fool would not see the relation between violence and islam.
- Spencer
I also see a very clear relation between christians and violence and jews and violence, only a fool would not see those.
- Rene Wirtz
So if you can associate those two religions to violence, why stop when it comes to islam?
- Spencer
Way to miss the point, there, Sparky. He's pretty much referring to ANY religion that uses god as an excuse for unjustified murder. If you're too dense to pick up on that, then you have no business in any intelligent discussion on the matter.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
I'm not stopping it when it comes to islam. I want CID to close their investigation and confirm or deny that there is a relation between Hasan and a terrorist organization, before I already be his judge and juror.
- Rene Wirtz
@Denise, you are so far out there you can't even grasp reality. Mmmm'kay?
- Spencer
Ooooh good comeback. Here's a shiny star for you. *feigns impressed face* Why don't you try actually arguing with intelligence before you resort to discussing reality.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Chris, thanks for sharing that article. It was a very funny assessment of the abysmal hypocrisy and hatred spouted by the media's own radical left-wing poster boy Keith "No Ratings" Olbermann. I can't believe Olbermeister considered a story about the Obama/Pelosi/ReidCare bill protest at Capital Hill yesterday to be more important than the shooting at Ft. Hood. What a jerk.
- David C. Cooper
I would guess in the grand scheme of real life as opposed to rightist fantasy,the Fort Hood shooting is a blip not a huge incident certainly less important to all of us than Health Care or unemployemt or really my next meal. Rightist fantasy not withstanding a sadly sick person commiting suicide using the cops guns to do it is not earth shattering
- WarLord
Hate? What? It's called facts, something the media doesn't report.
- Spencer
It is a fact that Hasan in muslim, but to immediately, without due process, label him as a jihadist, domestic terrorist is pure and unadulterated hate.
- Rene Wirtz
Spencer, would you react so stupidly if his name was western and he killed people based on Christian ideology? Or are you one of those morons who sees abortion clinic bombings as "God's will"? Terrorism comes in many forms, and is not limited to those with "Muslim-sounding names".
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
I wouldn't really care if he said "fuck you" to Ammiano in person, but vetoing a bill that could have helped the Port of SF turns the personal into something that hurt a lot of completely innocent people. ... So, pretty much what I would expect from a jackass like Schwarzenegger.
- Andrew C
... actually, a comment at the SFBG post says that the bill will go through at the end of the year automatically; it's just that Schwarzenegger won't have signed it. If that's true, I'll withdraw the accusation of playing petty games with people's livelihoods.
- Andrew C
If Michelle Malkin claims one way, it usually is incorrect ... the death toll is probably higher anyway ...
- Rene Wirtz
Wow, there are some amazingly blind people commenting on that post. I like how they take about how dems forget so quickly past comments, yet ignore the repubs doing the same, and seem to think the poor insurance companies are being maligned, because it's the patient's fault when their insurance is summarily denied because a code was entered incorrectly, or their baby is 'too big'. Wow...
- Bette Cooper
Great. Proof. We'll send this to the International Peace Court in The Hague and have Cheney (et al) arrested. Clearly, he does not respect the sovereignty of other nations and he should be held accountable for actions he (and others, like Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld) sanctioned during the Bush administration.
- Rene Wirtz
Cheney can rot. He had his 8 years, and he is pissy that he no longer pulls the strings.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Not only does this start off with negative credibility because it's from Malkin, but that she then goes on to bang the Gerald Walpin drum ( see http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpoi... for some facts she /didn't/ mention ) got me to stop reading. Please feel free to bump this and remind me if this actually pans out to something,...
more...
- Andrew C
also: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpoi... "So here's what it sounds like: Johnson and his non-profit ran a very loose operation, which deserved some kind of sanction. But Walpin's action -- in publicly suggesting, without much apparent evidence, that Johnson might have committed a crime, and having Johnson barred from...
more...
- Andrew C