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Brendan Cosgrove › Comments
Seesmic, Friendfeed and Twitter next to each other in a test version of Twhirl. Adding tons of Friendfeed experience improvements in there, Marco rocks.
Nicholas James, Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF, Wins Fern and 95 other people liked this
I love this version. And Seesmic in Twhirl is so addictive
- Loic Le Meur
nice improvements Loic!! bring it on!!
- Susan Beebe
can't wait - gimme more ;o)
- Marco Sascha Sven Hoppe
from twhirl
very interesting. The friendfeed integration looks way better than before. Will have to give this a look when it is released.
- Rob Diana
Seesmic ROCKS!!
- Larry
from twhirl
okay, so FF and Twitter are in the latest? but not Seemic correct?
- Lou Paglia
This might get me back into Twhirl.
- Akiva Moskovitz
and it has FF rooms support!
- Loic Le Meur
The question is when ?
- Gilles Meiers
from twhirl
wow, looks great. remind me http://twitku.com/ for a second there...
- Orli Yakuel
looks very cool. exactly what we need. but what about plurk ;)
- Phil Coyne
from twhirl
needs pownce and jaiku support too. Then it will be the total solution
- Adrian
from twhirl
yes... when?
- Mike Wills
@LouPaglia - correct, Seesmic is not integrated with Twirl desktop app yet
- Susan Beebe
in a few days I think for the new FF integration. Seesmic comes next.
- Loic Le Meur
from twhirl
Super! When!??!
- Florin Grozea
from twhirl
looks like it might replace alert thingy as my RIA of choice
- Steve Lynch
from Alert Thingy
Great ! Thanks
- Gilles Meiers
from twhirl
integrate into one window, is all i ask, make it indisputably the best
- Ruben Llibre
none of them working in linux TOO BAD!
- Yassin Alvandi
Is twitter's api actually back up at 50 req/hr?
- Shawn Farner
The old Twhirl works for me in linux for me, it just won't remember my password.
- Daniel E. Renfer
from twhirl
Yes Marco does. Twhirl is becoming my info hub. And if Twitter dies, who cares I'm sure Pownce, Jaiku or whatever could be swapped in
- Tris Hussey
from twhirl
so is seesmic cool now?
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
How do we score the test ver? :)
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
You tease. Where do I download it?
- Rafe Needleman
Cannot wait, big Guy!
- ledretch
I want... When?
- highcenter
from twhirl
Can't wait!!
- Danish Khan
from twhirl
actually it will be pushed in an hour or two
- Loic Le Meur
from twhirl
Can't wait!
- Tris Hussey
from twhirl
Nice teasing. Do you have any release date or will you take the "it's done when it's done" side?
- Romain Péchard
from twhirl
I would love some "best practices" guide for how to get the most out of all that information that will be flooding in.
- Brendan Cosgrove
from twhirl
How do I add my Seesmic account into Twhirl 082? It's not showing up in the "accounts" list.
- Rafe Needleman
from twhirl
We should have a Twhirl + Seesmic preview in the very next days
- Loic Le Meur
from twhirl
wait, what exactly is the difference between Twhirl and Seesmic? I thought Seesmic was replacing Twhirl...
- Piero Ardizone
This looks awesome!
- Svartling
I think this what im looking for!
- Michael Scott
Wow nice work, I really like the improvements made :)
- Jeunelle Foster
awesome!
- barbarars
wow - one of the furthest back boomerang ff threads i've seen
- mike "glemak" dunn
nice!
- .LAG liked that
Wow, this is pretty old. I got excited for a second, thought Loic had seen the light and was starting to care about Twhirl again. NOPE.
- Shawn Farner
What five tools do you use to build 2010 websites (or would you recommend to businesses)? Answer here:
Enrique De La Torre, Darren Crawford, Jay Clark and 67 other people liked this
Google Wave
- Sid Burgess
1. W3C Web Standards Compliant Code -- 2. Social Networking APIs / Social Media Integration (i.e. Twitter / FriendFeed / Facebook / etc) -- 3. Git / GitHub for Version Control -- 4. Open Source CMS Solutions (i.e. WordPress / Drupal / etc) -- 5. Open and Accessible Analytics systems (i.e. Google Analytics, Mint, or similar)
- Michael Owens
err, often its not the tool but how you use the tool... I'm looking at you Flash!
- Matt Searles
It would depend on each individual business
- Patricia
WordPress, Analytics, Mint (haveamint.com), Facebook Connect, BLIP.TV OR Vimeo
- Adam Jackson
Wordpress, Thesis Theme, Disqus Plugin, Friendfeed, Feedmingle...
- Arne Krueger
WordPress & Thesis theme, Twitter, FriendFeed, Disqus, some OpenId provider(s)
- Jeroen De Miranda
A knife. It's the most versatile tool there is. Allows you to cut right through the BS and cut chunks off of spit roasted meat.
- Todd Hoff
I like Todd's answer.
- Happy
Web 3.0 & cloud computing + my Leatherman multi-tool :D :D
- Ronald
Again, it does depend on the customer's needs, but I think #1 Michael Owens gave a pretty accurate answer.
- Happy
i like michael owens answer - this is it!
- Arne Krueger
Wordpress, Apture, Zemanta, FriendFeed, Woopra
- Eric Logan
Depending on the business' needs, the best recommendation is to go with a platform that gives you all the features you need and none of those that will simply distract from your strategy. Suggest folks check out social collaboration via Groupsites @ www.collectivex.com.
- Carissa Caramanis O'Brien
Add some visual computing to the mix for more engaging content like real-time avatars and animation with CrazyTalk: http://www.reallusion.com/crazyta...
- John Martin
I just got some PR email about Rackspace Cloud. Could that be it? :-)
- Todd Hoff
I would go with Wave
- Julian Hoffbauer
Maybe we should wait until 2010 to find out, and while we're waiting, build 2009 web sites.
- Andy Bakun
I use wordpress on a purchased/ hosted domain, friendfeed, google friend connect, disqus. That's just my simple blog example, unfortunately the template could use some sprucing up. I'd like all the functionality, but to look less Scoble clonish
- Mark Essel
It's still in private release, but Notable (www.notableapp.com) is becoming a real life saver for giving feedback on web sites/applications.
- hunter
Specific tools should be dependent on the tech team (e.g., size, existing skills). More important are the business's attitude to engage and delight their stakeholders.
- Bill L
Idk, I don't think its about the tools, I think its about what you want to do with your site, and then what tools you use depends on that and like.. your skill sets, and all that good stuff.. for my personal sorta business e I'm looking at C4D, After Effects, Photoshop, Flash, and final cut studio.. seems like a code editor probably goes without saying?
- Matt Searles
Depends on the business. Depends on their customers. It's all relative.
- Andy McIlwain
Drupal 7, textmate, cssedit, mamp and git
- Michael Harp
Andy: it's not... it's about a different, new way to communicate/work/live - for all the businesses! for me, it feels like we are in the middle of a revolution!
- Arne Krueger
I never felt like this before! i was running my own software company with 30 people in 2000 and was just wondering!) i have now the same feeling, like i had maybe ;-) starting doing business with computers in 1988 at the cowfarm of my father in east germany!
- Arne Krueger
Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP & Wordpress - am I answering the question correctly Robert? or is this type of setup assumed?
- Chris Heath
Robert: can't make your event tonight - Son's 8th grade graduation.. have a great event
- John Furrier
the <marquee> tag
- Jeremy Toeman
YouTube... have you seen how this agency used YouTUbe to build their site? Very Creative. http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Chip McComb
Wordpress, Flip Mino, Vimeo, Friendfeed, RSS (it's not dead)
- Chris Pugh
1. Google Analytics/Woopra. 2. Google's Social Gadgets (or Wave integration when it's out). 3. Version control (my choice is Git w/github) 4. Pushing the browser envelope, use HTML 5 & CSS 3 whenever possible, use standards compliant code. Do cool stuff that sets you apart. 5. Open up your data (if applicable) with some kind of data feeds or apis.
- Brandon Titus
Definitely XML libraries to read/write feeds and APIs
- Raj Advani
I do both: ASP.NET with Expression and some Flash, but we also use PHP, Drupal, Wordpress, mySql, and even some Coldfusion (yuck!)
- Ric Johnson
Of course depends on the customers of the individual business. What industry are we talking about? Are their customers even on the net? I can name more businesses than not, where if I start talking about a new flashy web-site I will get thrown out of the office asap.
- Peter Efland
For #web2010 1. Social Identity (Connect) 2. PaaS design (Cloud) 3. Activity Streams (Realtime) 4. Git 5. Open Analytics
- Alberto Saavedra
I'm planning to use Windows Azure, ASP.NET MVC, Silverlight, and Visual Studio 2010.
- Jeff Weber
Pen, Paper, Photoshop, Text Editor, and a browser.
- Andrew Smith
business rules, pen, paper, brain, computer
- pk
Drupal, Wordpress, Twitter, Blip.tv, RSS
- Chris Wills
I use Wordpress, Friend Feed, Disqus, YouTube, and Google Friend Connect on the web pages and then to supplement the pages and features - I use FaceBook, Twitter, Linked-In, Digg, and Delicious. The first 5 are key to connecting the web page/blog socially; the supplements are to enhance those features.
- Robert Freeze
If your budget doesn't include an accomplished developer (send more work to those guys!), to get started effectively on the cheap: Squarespace, Twitter, Friendfeed, the Google suite (analytics, apps for your domain, connect, adwords, et al.), and probably Facebook (which seems to be working a lot better for business).
- Brian Hill
If you have a developer, or are a developer, what David Cann has done with almost.at using the cappuccino framework looks very interesting...
- Brian Hill
The mention of cappuccino reminded me: GWT (google web toolkit) for building scalable AJAX applications without cross-browser worries
- Raj Advani
I use everything Eric Logan listed plus seesmic desktop to see your brands progress in realtime. Throw in disqus plus any smart phone to provide instant feedback to comments, questions/concerns
- Anthony Farrior
Whatever tools a small company would use, it should be funded in this economy leveraging Kiva.org
- Eran Even-Kesef
A great tool everyone has is the ability to tell a story. I would suggest that rather than build just a marketing site, or online community, or social network, that you take the tool of storytelling and use it to build a 2010 website.
- Brendan Cosgrove
In no particular order: CMS: drupal (for industrial strength) or joomla (for ease of use)... sorry, but wordpress is brain-dead... round it out with some groovy core technologies: Wave/XMPP, RSS/Atom, and Ajax.
- Fred Davis
Same as Jeff Weber looking at a .NET blogging platform instead of WordPress - been using GraffitiCMS.
- Kevin Tunis
WP self-hosted, DIY Thesis Theme, FriendFeed (widget and embedded for real-time convo), Disqus w/ Facebook Connect and twitter connect, - my new blog has some of these elements now http://susanbeebe.com (so is yours Robert!) :)
- Susan Beebe
I honestly don't care what the tools are, but whatever you build, make sure you have a mobile version of it and I don't mean iPhone only. Build the site and ensure it works well on the main 4 mobile browsers iPhone, android, S60, Palm and maybe Win mobile.
- Keith Bennett
Adobe Dreamweaver, The Drupal Dream Theme Utility Suite Dreamweaver Extension, MyXoopsExtensions, Adobe Photoshop, and Flash
- Chelsea Belle Goodell
Lots of good tech suggestions. I'll add HTML Canvas. But the key to success is understanding the value you are adding for your customers. Of course social networks are the latest example of this, but remind yourself again and again WHY you are here - to understand what value you add now, and how you can improve that over time. You need to find tools and design patterns that allow you to collect as much feedback, as quickly and easily as possible.
- David Sky
less is more
- Tyler Gillies
from email
WordPress, Thesis Theme, Twitter, Youtube, Google FriendConnect
- Marko Saric
Second Life, Metaplace, Typepad, Twitter
- Prokofy Neva
Video!!!
- Morgan
Only one mention of Silverlight. Too much bing-bing?
- Nick Wade
I like Alberto Saavedra's answer. It's about the building block elements rather than the branded tool. He nailed it.
- Neill Adamson
Imagination and then what ever tool gets the job done. Drupal and Wordpress allow businesses to get online quickly without the need for technical knowledge.
- Darren Rollett
Darren - that may be a little exaggeration regarding Drupal's ease.
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Agree w/ Michael Owens list.
- Jason Cronkhite
Google wave
- Amir
LPH - Agreed. Joomla is probably better for the none technical and a little easier to use. Although as Building43 shows you can acheive most things in Wordpress.
- Darren Rollett
http://www.vooices.us for using your mobile phone to seamlessly talk to to a webpage.
- Paul Kinlan
I am surprised nobody mentioned SMF (I have seen some amazing things done with it)
- April Russo (app103)
I would also bet on Google Wave.
- Martin Seibert
Decentralized moderation is the chat room savior - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
metalerik, Robin Good, Shivanand Velmurugan and 81 other people liked this
I wrote this for my friendfeed buddies to explain why friendfeed sees a lot less "a%%hole" and spamming behavior than other places on the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
All hail FriendFeed!
- Martin Bryant
Martin: the system they built here is pretty darn interesting to study.
- Robert Scoble
Hmm, interesting , and yes I think decentralized moderation is a pretty good control (maybe like Churchill said democracy is a pretty good form of government) - but I think the PRIMARY reason Friendfeed doesn't have a ton of jerks and spam is because it doesn't have the masses here yet, just as you said about the early days of the NetMeeting forum. By the way I just used NetMeeting for work yesterday - it was a viable lowest-common-denominator when the fancier options weren't.
- Dan Becker
Dan: I totally disagree. When the masses do arrive (who said they haven't arrived yet, by the way? Heheh) this system is far more resistant to problems that have popped up on other forums and chat rooms.
- Robert Scoble
Dan: for instance: go ahead, try to spam me. Or, try to be an asshole. I'll show you how we deal with that here and keep the signal to noise level high.
- Robert Scoble
The general tone here is conducive to good conversation. Thought-provoking topics, interesting news, and plenty of lively, sensible debate/discussion. Wouldn't be that many people wanting to go against that sort of thing.
- George Hall (Australia)
Robert: I know - it's so simple and yet so complex. I tried to do a Screencast about it on Saturday (to encourage people to try FF) and there was so much to cover that it ended up 20 minutes long and I scrapped it. But yes, this model of moderation is very effective and probably the future, if it can be integrated in a wider way across multiple sites.
- Martin Bryant
George: see, though, the system here itself makes sure we both behave. This is VERY DIFFERENT than other moderation systems that have been tried.
- Robert Scoble
I'm not sure how the system does that, technically...
- George Hall (Australia)
One thing I didn't cover on the positive side, is that if you both behave and participate with interesting content your stuff will get "liked" and "commented on" which increases its distribution dramatically.
- Robert Scoble
It's true that the masses aren't here yet, but I suspect Robert is right: that even when they arrive the simple concept of having each person moderate their own threads is powerful enough that it will keep bad forum behaviours to a minimum. The question is whether new kinds of bad behaviour, unique to distributed moderation, will arise.
- Edward Coffey
George: in short, if you troll here, I'll delete your comment from this thread. Strike one.
- Robert Scoble
I think this idea of "decentralized moderation" is also seen in the blogosphere. Here on FriendFeed, every post is like a post on your own blog. You moderate your own comments. FriendFeed is like a centrally hosted blogosphere, on steroids. :)
- Meryn Stol
George: if you troll me again, strike two. If you troll me a third time, I'll just block you.
- Robert Scoble
Blocking keeps you from seeing my items at all, so you can't attack me anymore.
- Robert Scoble
I said it before: The "blog" model has proven to scale. There are millions of blogs, each with its own conversations.
- Meryn Stol
Okay, I know I can delete my own comment...and I think, if I remember correctly, the thread-starter might have some control...anything I've missed there?
- George Hall (Australia)
Meryn: true, but with one HUGE difference. You have identity here and can be blocked. On my blog? You have NO identity in my comments and can not be blocked and you suffer no ill consequences from me trying, either.
- Robert Scoble
George: right, I can delete you on this item because I started it. You can delete me on items you start.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, yes. That's a major added benefit of FriendFeed. Something like Disqus, IntenseDebate, Facebook Connect or OpenID could solve that for blogs though.
- Meryn Stol
That's good to know, because I've seen the problem with spam/trolling on my blog...so it's good to know I've got some control over the total troll commentors.
- George Hall (Australia)
Meryn: it could. If I troll a Disqus blog, and get deleted, do I suffer negative consequences? And, does that blog get removed from my view totally? Nope, right? Well, then, it isn't as resistant as friendfeed is.
- Robert Scoble
I can see the actual consequence of getting blocked on friendfeed, as that would affect your overall friendfeed reputation.
- George Hall (Australia)
George: it doesn't just change your reputation. If I block you you can no longer see any of my items, comments, or likes. The attack surface you have has been reduced. That's HUGE.
- Robert Scoble
The more people blocking you, the harder to really misbehave in the long run.
- George Hall (Australia)
Robert, you've got a good point there. In the case of blocking (as opposed to regular moderation) the consequences are far more dire than could be done with blogs: You can exclude people from seeing your own posts. That goes further than excluding people to comment. (I do think we might two types of "blocking", one all-out, one only for blocking comments)
- Meryn Stol
All in all, that's quite effective compared to a lot of other sites.
- George Hall (Australia)
So that also affects even interacting with other people in your posts, too?
- George Hall (Australia)
George: yes. If I block you you can no longer interact with other people in my posts because you can no longer even SEE my posts! You also can't see my comments in other people's posts and my likes are now invisible to you, as well.
- Robert Scoble
So what's the exact mechanism for blocking? Haven't exactly paid attention to a block button yet...
- George Hall (Australia)
"You also can't see my comments in other people's posts" I don't think that's true. One person has blocked me. I can still see his comments in other people's threads.
- Meryn Stol
Robert: The biggest concern I have is possible abuse by moderators. You mention moderator reputation being a factor in preventing unreasonable behaviour on the part of moderators, but is it enough? The idea that I can have a fascinating debate with someone, then tomorrow find the whole thing deleted at the whim of the person I was debating with, or the third party whose thread we were debating on, seems like a disincentive to put a lot of time and though into such a conversation in the first place.
- Edward Coffey
Edward: you betcha it's enough. You just wait to see the blowback that happens if someone like me starts deleting comments without cause.
- Robert Scoble
I'd venture a guess abusive moderators would, themselves, eventually be blocked by a significant amount of people.
- George Hall (Australia)
Meryn: really? Hmmm. Must test that out. I could have sworn that it blocks everything from view.
- Robert Scoble
George: if someone deleted my comment and I didn't think they had cause I'd stop liking and commenting their stuff.
- Robert Scoble
George: and I might block them just for being a jerk.
- Robert Scoble
George: I expect the same would be done to me, too, if I did that.
- Robert Scoble
Sounds fair...
- George Hall (Australia)
Robert, yes, I thought that at first too, but apparently not. I hope we can get different blocking levels. Then we could make our own "sanctions" against people. BTW I studied some international law in college. There are some similarities. :)
- Meryn Stol
Meryn: a graduated scale of blocking??
- George Hall (Australia)
It's fine to block bad people after the fact, but I'd still like to see some mechanism whereby if someone blocked me or deleted my comments, I could still access an archived copy of how the conversation looked before that action occurred.
- Edward Coffey
George, yes. I think that if someone is trolling in my threads, I wouldn't want to totally exclude them from my content. I would want them to keep them from commenting again.
- Meryn Stol
Edward: I don't mind that it's a death penalty. It's like a nuclear bomb. If you use it too often you end up killing yourself.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, funny that you are talking about a nuclear bomb, and I'm talking about international law. I hope we can work towards peaceful sanctions. :D
- Meryn Stol
As blocks can also been seen as a form of negative endorsement it would be interesting to see in someone's profile if _my_ friends have blocked him/her.
- Jan Ignatius
Meryn: wish it were that easy...you do get some really nasty trolls, especially on Twitter. One springs to mind who pops up during major situations around the world trying to preach hate stuff. On Twitter, blocking them from just one reader's view isn't that effective a solution.
- George Hall (Australia)
Jan, agree. That would be some interesting data to see. In general, it would be nice if you could make your block-list public, so that everyone sees who you've blocked. Maybe together with an (optional) reason for blocking.
- Meryn Stol
There's the FF Spam Report Channel: http://beta.friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
It's also a way to combat against fake accounts blocking a user just to hurt his reputation.
- Jan Ignatius
On twitter, a really aggravating, hate-preaching troll can be banned by Twitter, although the example I've cited keeps finding a way to get past that. Ahsan just answered what would have been the next question I was going to ask about friendfeed's method of dealing with that same case.
- George Hall (Australia)
George: plus the friendfeed team can see who is earning blocks and I'm sure that can also provide a warning system to check in and see if someone is needing a global block.
- Robert Scoble
Presumably a blog using Facebook Connect exclusively for comment posting should move the onus to the real user and hence their reputation and it would solve most of the same issues without the complexity. What do people think?
- James Harnedy
Does this lead to users having to join a service like Facebook, before they're allowed to sign on to regular blogs, and social media networks? Does it effectively end up with the 'walled garden' of Facebook (or similar service) enveloping almost the whole public internet - i.e practically all web sites that require a log-in?
- Ian May
Good idea James, that centralizes reputations. But what if someone wants to use Google Connect or OpenId ? Here on FF at least its all under a single umbrella ... and data from other sites is 'Fed' in
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
In fact, isn't FF, thanks to its architecture a mini-internet in itself ?
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Does a facebook connect -only approach mean that one always has to comment with his true identity revealed? Surely there is need for pseudonyms in the future too..
- Jan Ignatius
@Meryn That is not a bad idea...scales of blocking. Like see their links but not their comments, etc. Interesting.
- Neal Jansons
Indeed it restricts your audience but like everything there is a balance and I see a trade-off between ease-of-use and content quality.
- James Harnedy
@Robert: how is friendfeed's block different from twitter's block ?
- Antoine Bertier
Antoine: if I remember right, they are very similar.
- Robert Scoble
One approach could be an openID provider that verifies your real identity but enables you to create pseudonyms tied to this account for every service you want to use. Now, if your pseudonym at service x is blocked you cannot create another one as the openID provider limits your pseudonyms to 1 per domain/service (and you can only have one verified account with that openID provider).
- Jan Ignatius
Why doesn't FF provide a comment widget that can be embedded in blog entries? The comment widget can then act as a mini UI tied to the permalink discussion over at FF. To minimize the effect of FF being a walled garden, FF should expand their authentication system to support things like Facebook Connect and OpenID
- Edmund Tay
Edmund: there are some Wordpress Plugins that do just what you're talking about.
- Robert Scoble
Excellent points. I too have been noticing the gradual degradation of the conversation in chat and forums. I do hope that the system here works to keep FF interesting.
- Leo Laporte
Leo: if not, we're coming over your house for conversation and beer! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Wine, surely? :)
- Martin Bryant
But I can just create another account and continue attacking. I would love a system that let you say your account has to be X days old and you must have X amount of reputation (waiving magic wand) to comment.
- Chris Bartow
Robert: An official Javascript based widget provided by FF would be better because then it will be platform agnostic. Ok, I'll even settle for a 3rd party widget but it shouldn't be tied to a specific platform. With the existing Wordpress Plugin (http://blog.slaven.net.au/wordpre...), you get people like Louis Gray offering to pay for a Blogger version :)
- Edmund Tay
Chris: how would you gain reputation if people block you from their threads?
- Martin Bryant
yup you nailed it robert, the full control to the end-user of controlling their own experience here in friendfeed is what i've always liked & after only really looking for a presence aggregation service originally - i block w/out remorse so haven't had to delete or moderate comments yet but i like that the functionality is there
- mike "glemak" dunn
Martin: That's why I wrote waiving magic wand. It could be by # of friends or stats on a system wide level. Similar to identifying spammers on Twitter by looking at Following vs Followed.
- Chris Bartow
Hmm, interesting contrast between being blocked on Friend Feed (so can't follow) and not being able to be blocked from reading a blog. Still, even for a pubic blog, so long as there is some sort of identity scheme, one should be able to restrict commenters, not just delete their particular comments. Is this all just about anonymity, where FriendFeed even controls visibility through it...
more...
- Dennis E. Hamilton
So it seems that to extend the FF model for moderation well into more of the online conversation, ie blogs, twitter, fb, that several different identity systems may have to be able to leverage the FF model so that 1. users have choice 2. more people can be included in the conversations.
- Brendan Cosgrove
+1 Dennis, you said exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. FriendFeed's comment lockdown is only possible because there are no anonymous comments allowed. There's a reason Robert hasn't disallowed anonymous comments on his blog, and it's because he wants to encourage as many comments as possible. FriendFeed still presents the registration barrier and that's going to drive away some would-be commenters even as it fosters increased participation by the ones who do register.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
daniel, i like to remember that ff started as a presence aggregation service and blossomed into a conversational experience, i'm sure you've been followed by what i call "null" friendfeeders: no profile info, avatar, service integration or activity (likes/comments) these are attempts at anonymity that the system easily allows us to recognize - of course once someone starts engaging they have entered the community, even if they started as a "null" user - from there they are judged by their actions in ff
- mike "glemak" dunn
I disagree. If 4chan decided to spam your FriendFeed, you'd be blocking for hours. I stand by my claim irc still has the best moderation tools.
- Bwana ☠
I think I'll blog reasons why
- Bwana ☠
I agree 100%
- Scott H
I could use color coded conversations or indent level matching-> fun trying to follow all the great ideas/responses but challenging making sense of the outcome.
- Mark Essel
ok finally made sense of the conversation: there's a need for protection against faceless spammers, and also a need for anonymous users to freely add value to posts. Some type of sliding bar per post security that is customized to each user to optimize their experience/expectations?
- Mark Essel
Agree 100% .. after all, here we are a "personal forum/topics administrators"... however diffusion of platform make the difference ... will see if we are right!
- Lucio Riccardi - CantorJF
bwana - yes, that example is scary and would waste lots of time, pls link to your blog post back in this thread - i'd read it :)
- mike "glemak" dunn
Great post, Robert. It came in handy for a discussion I've been having with investor relations officers who are looking at shareholder forums and shaking in their shoes at the idea that anyone can say anything they want on a forum.
- Dominic Jones
Ironic - My sites are down :) Hopefully I didn't tick the chans off
- Bwana ☠
I have already observed a new kind of trolling that results from the FriendFeed moderation system - I call it microtrolling. If you apply game theory to the decision to block someone, there's a cost-benefit analysis. Contribution vs Rudeness are orthogonal and are determined over time. If someone is rude but never contributes, they'll get blocked quickly, whereas someone who has contributed a lot over time can get away with more rudeness because people will hesitate to lose the expected future...
- Robin Barooah
...contribution. The same is true of people who host a lot of interesting discussions. If they themselves are rude, the threshold for blocking them is higher than for someone who doesn't, because you are not only excluding them, you are excluding yourself from discussions they start which involve other people.
- Robin Barooah
So someone who is very popular can enter a discussion moderated by a less popular person and there'll be a higher threshold for blocking them if they are rude or disruptive. My name for trolling above the mean threshold but below your own personal threshold (because you're popular) is 'microtrolling'.
- Robin Barooah
Robin: That sounds a lot like life. I won't spend time with someone who is rude all the time, but if someone is generally a pretty good person but occasionally a bit of an ass, I'll make allowances.
- Edward Coffey
Robert - Thanks for the fabulous post… Hooray! for this uber geeky post! I am super happy to see you continuing to champion FriendFeed.com - my all time favorite social site; clearly yours as well! :) ... While I was reading your post about the FriendFeed “block” feature, Paul Buchheit’s words immediately came to mind … “Do No Evil.” - If that doesn’t say it all, I don’t know what does! That is the basis of the FriendFeed culture. If one can’t live in that reality, they have no business in FF.
- Susan Beebe
Edward: It's similar but qualitatively different. I'm saying that their popularity on FriendFeed systematically enables someone to be ruder on other people's threads and face a lower threat of moderation. The fact that the thread is associated more with the with the thread owner increases the effect. If they were consistently rude on their own threads, then they'd lose popularity more rapidly.
- Robin Barooah
I like the FF option of having each individual deal with rude or uncalled for behavior themselves, different people are sensitive about different subjects and at different levels with FF I don't have to depend on anyone else to block someone, its my decision alone
- Kim Landwehr
Kim: you can only block people from your own threads though. You will still see them in other people's threads.
- Robin Barooah
Just to clarify - I personally like the way the friendfeed system works, but although it's intuitive to use, I think it's not entirely obvious what the consequences of each action is and this reduces the deterrent effect.
- Robin Barooah
robin - when you block someone they are gone from all your experiences on friendfeed and you are gone from all theirs...
- mike "glemak" dunn
Mike - you're right about that. Kim - I was wrong.
- Robin Barooah
That actually increases the strength of the 'microtrolling' effect I described. I.e. the loss in terms of a bad experience through seeing threads in a disjointed way is even greater if you block a very prolific user.
- Robin Barooah
robin, i've been on friendfeed for awhile and blocked the obvious trolls/haters from day 1, some of which are as you've stated prolific, so yes you do notice reactions to them in others comments, sort of a ghosting effect but it doesn't create a negative experience for me - i'm glad to have the trolls out of my experience and love friendfeed for providing that functionality...
- mike "glemak" dunn
Mike, I'm not talking about people who are consistently trolls and do little else, and I am not criticizing FriendFeed's functionality which I think is state of the art. I am pointing out that being prolific in general, and posting good stuff gives such people more of a license to get away with rudeness in other people's threads when madness strikes, and that there is no mechanism to control this other than their own self-control. i.e. the threat of blocking isn't much of a deterrent.
- Robin Barooah
ah got it robin - good point - the prolific folks I follow tend to not be rude at least in my experience
- mike "glemak" dunn
wait, so what's keeping spammers and trolls from just opening new friendfeed accounts as they get blocked?
- Ned Baugh
Chasing the magical experience - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Daniel Rowley, Andrew Terry, Ron R. and 43 other people liked this
I wonder who Scoble will put me with when he's seperated his followers into groups of four.
- Nicholas James
Nicholas: now THAT is an interesting question and one that I'd need to do some homework on. I think that's a more interesting definition of friendship, by the way: can I create a magical experience for you? Not have I met you, etc.
- Robert Scoble
Wow. This is great. Very good analysis of what makes for magic moments. I will DM you some info re: a magic moment opportunity. Also, your analysis in your prior post about "regular" businesses is spot on. It is great to hear this because that concept is central to our strategy at my company! Thanks for the great thoughts...
- Troy Malone
This is why Francisco Dao created "Francisco's Fun Club - No Business Cards Allowed." Robert the best time I ever spent with you was around a fire pit at the Ritz. I don't think we spoke business once. I remember that I was hoping to get an interview with you for The Business Maker's Radio Show...but the moment wasn't right. It was in a word - Magical.
- Erica OGrady
from Friend Deck
Erica: I agree, we should do a fire pit meetup again soon.
- Robert Scoble
I've known my best friend for over 40 years (since Grade 1). We see each other's families about once a week. We agree far more than we disagree, and we bounce ideas off each other. Our wives laugh at our similarities (including quirks we share in common). Happy is the man or woman who has at least one such friend, because then the magical experience happens more often.
- Victor Panlilio
That is a great post. Those moments are something special when they happen.
- Jeremy Brooks
So was our interview with Ev and Biz last year a "Magical Experience?" ;-)
- Jesse Stay
I realize it's not really the point of the post and that you're going for the number four as a theme, but my experience is that a birth with a midwife instead of doctor an a nurse is definitely more magical.
- Tim Trentham
Looking forward to the magic at Building 43!
- Brendan Cosgrove
Wow Robert, I love the bit at the end about bringing three guests. You could try and bring three locals to *every* tour you land, regardless of the venue. It would really add to the perspective!
- Daniel J. Pritchett
This is going to have a profound effect on my thinking. I have a Twitter account that built a failry large following, but I ended up creating another (closed) account where I only invite and accept close friends for noise-free conversation. Find I'm spending much more time there; my old account mostly just gets stuff I "like" on FriendFeed now.
- Mark Traphagen
Does anyone else feel like Robert Scoble is getting boring? Or is it that there is nothing interesting going on in the tech world. Techcrunch/Techmeme all feel the same, mashable and readwriteweb are wordy and not too original, Huffpost is an ok read for someone desperate like me, but i can't believe that there is no revolution going on somewhere...maybe we need a new breed of bloggers that can identify the revolutions ..... am talking about it at http://beta.friendfeed.com/tweetfe...
- Tweet Feeds
Tweet Feeds: Robert Scoble has ALWAYS been boring. Hope this helps.
- Robert Scoble
Isn't your family about to increase to more than 4. Could be trouble there. ;-)
- Brian Sullivan
Nice, especially from someone who is known for his many connections.
- Meryn Stol
Robert, maybe we are all stuck in web 2.0 land, is the internet still interesting? I understand that most enterprises still behave like the web just happened, but it didn't, its old and infrastructural, like highways, someone somewhere is inspiring and empowering someone, magical experiences can be able about changing people's lives not feeling the buzz from the brandy or the bong ;)
- Tweet Feeds
Magical experiences can occur in mundane, everyday circumstances. When my wife and I get together with another couple (whom we are seeing this very evening), we can sometimes talk for hours, listen to music together, etc. Eric Schmidt in an interview last year said that four things are at the core of human happiness, regardless of political ideology, culture, or religion: (1) freedom from war (2) a healthy family life (3) good education for the kids (4) happy times with friends. That's it. I agree.
- Victor Panlilio
When Scoble can write articles like this, that remind us that what we do on the web must never be divorced form our "real life" experience, he will never be boring.
- Mark Traphagen
Auditors backtrack on SaaS revenue recognition - http://blogs.zdnet.com/SAAS...
Interesting article about how SaaS companies may or may not track professional services revenue.
- Brendan Cosgrove
When we got home Milan (our 16-month old son) did a dance. He's so happy! Now he's helping me install Windows 7. Geek in the making!
Randy, Morton Fox, AJ Batac and 24 other people liked this
He also is a netbook fan. I think that'll be his first computer. Just his size! :-)
- Robert Scoble
No, he'd be a geek in the making if he did the dance when you started installing Windows 7 ;-)
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
My 2.5 year old helped me today with Windows 7 too! HA! So easy, a toddler can do it. :)
- Brendan Cosgrove
That's cute. I think Windows 7 has convinced me to buy a new PC for the first time in 5 years.
- Michael Yurechko
I wish I could install Windows 7, but the install fails. Look at me, 12 years older than your son and I can't even do it! Makes me want to rethink my priorities.
- Melik Yuksel
Isn't Milan the MS Codename for Surface? :-)
- The Comic Project
Kids pick up tech so quick don't they. My 3 1/2 year old daughter is a master off all the remotes etc already
- Michael McGimpsey
from twhirl
Easy enough a caveman could do it. Been very pleased with Windows 7 so far today. Haven't had a single crash. Just had to install some 3rd party drivers over the default ones. That and Chrome didn't work well, but no big deal.
- Dean Clark
Simple enough - 25 min install + 15 more for MS Office. Faster, and smoother than Vista. Big step forward for MS.
- Bankwatch
Why are you exposing him to Windows? So many studies have shown that happy computers make happy kids and happy computers need Mac!
- Louis Gray
Do not listen to Louis. *Hissss* The Steve-Side has pulled him in. LOL Just teasing Louis. :)
- Robert Miller
What's great is that Windows 7 runs on older PCs too, and quite well. You don't need loads of disk or memory for it to run.
- Paul Shadwell
Louis: Milan will be brought up as an OS agnostic, just like his older brother Patrick. When he's old enough he will decide which one is better. Patrick is the world's #1 Apple fan because he was exposed to both. :-)
- Robert Scoble
My 30 month old son says "Apple" whenever he wants to play on a computer, regardless of the OS. I think the big Apple logo is something he now associates with the computer (along with Youtube 'Fire Truck House' videos. "Fire Truck-Doors Open" is his new favorite saying)
- Andrew Leyden
Robert: Ask Patrick to give us his opinion on 7 then, please?
- Roberto Bonini
Patrick is very solidly in Apple's camp. He's a little religious about his OS choice at the moment so getting him to see any value in something Microsoft does is going to be very difficult.
- Robert Scoble
Patrick should be using GNU/Linux. When you're young is when ideals like freedom should rule. Robert, you need to sit him down and have him watch 5 hours of Stallman videos until he screams "proprietary is evil".
- Gregg H.
Greggish: sorry, Patrick is one of those "Steve Jobs is king" types. Not much I can do about it. I just hope it passes soon.
- Robert Scoble
When to spend cash in a SaaS business - http://blogs.zdnet.com/SAAS...
So I wonder how you get to the magic number without a true outside sales force?
- Brendan Cosgrove
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