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Tim O'Reilly › Comments
Re: When 40%-Off Your Total Purchase Becomes 0.3%-Off - http://akagra.disqus.com/when_40...
"Chaim, Allen - I'm sure that we can arrange an "out of shopping cart" sale - just send an email to tim at oreilly and we'll find a way to make it happen for you."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: When 40%-Off Your Total Purchase Becomes 0.3%-Off - http://www.disqus.com/people...
"Chaim, Allen - I'm sure that we can arrange an "out of shopping cart" sale - just send an email to tim at oreilly and we'll find a way to make it happen for you."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: When 40%-Off Your Total Purchase Becomes 0.3%-Off - http://www.chaim.com/blog...
"Chaim, Allen - I'm sure that we can arrange an "out of shopping cart" sale - just send an email to tim at oreilly and we'll find a way to make it happen for you."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: When 40%-Off Your Total Purchase Becomes 0.3%-Off - http://www.disqus.com/people...
"Chaim, Allen - I'm sure that we can arrange an "out of shopping cart" sale - just send an email to tim at oreilly and we'll find a way to make it happen for you."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: When 40%-Off Your Total Purchase Becomes 0.3%-Off - http://chaim.com/blog...
"Chaim, Allen - I'm sure that we can arrange an "out of shopping cart" sale - just send an email to tim at oreilly and we'll find a way to make it happen for you."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: When Real Time Is Not Fast Enough: The Intent Based Web - http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...
"Peter, this may be a bit premature, but it isn't silly. For example, in many ways, NextJump is an intention web ecommerce site. People register their preferences - stuff they are looking for - and merchants bid to provide it. They have gotten sufficiently good at fine-tuning preferences that one in eleven offers are accepted. Pretty amazing. There's going to be a writeup on the company in the NYT on Sunday, I believe. (I was interviewed for the story. I don't have any connection to the company, but have met with them a couple of times.)"
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: When Real Time Is Not Fast Enough: The Intent Based Web - http://webstrategy.disqus.com/when_re...
"Peter, this may be a bit premature, but it isn't silly. For example, in many ways, NextJump is an intention web ecommerce site. People register their preferences - stuff they are looking for - and merchants bid to provide it. They have gotten sufficiently good at fine-tuning preferences that one in eleven offers are accepted. Pretty amazing. There's going to be a writeup on the company in the NYT on Sunday, I believe. (I was interviewed for the story. I don't have any connection to the company, but have met with them a couple of times.)"
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: When Real Time Is *Not* Fast Enough: The Intention Web - http://www.disqus.com/people...
"Peter, this may be a bit premature, but it isn't silly. For example, in many ways, NextJump is an intention web ecommerce site. People register their preferences - stuff they are looking for - and merchants bid to provide it. They have gotten sufficiently good at fine-tuning preferences that one in eleven offers are accepted. Pretty amazing. There's going to be a writeup on the company in the NYT on Sunday, I believe. (I was interviewed for the story. I don't have any connection to the company, but have met with them a couple of times.)"
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Facebook Unlinks Your Twitter Links - http://www.disqus.com/people...
"It's not just links imported from twitter. It's any link you put into your status feed as a naked URL, without going through their special "import" dialogue. I'm thinking that this is part of a wider "war on the web" being waged not only by Facebook but by others, including Apple and Google. I'm making this the central tenet of my keynote at Web 2.0 Expo in New York on Tuesday."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Facebook Unlinks Your Twitter Links - http://mashable.com/2009...
"It's not just links imported from twitter. It's any link you put into your status feed as a naked URL, without going through their special "import" dialogue. I'm thinking that this is part of a wider "war on the web" being waged not only by Facebook but by others, including Apple and Google. I'm making this the central tenet of my keynote at Web 2.0 Expo in New York on Tuesday."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Facebook Unlinks Your Twitter Links - http://mashable.disqus.com/faceboo...
"It's not just links imported from twitter. It's any link you put into your status feed as a naked URL, without going through their special "import" dialogue. I'm thinking that this is part of a wider "war on the web" being waged not only by Facebook but by others, including Apple and Google. I'm making this the central tenet of my keynote at Web 2.0 Expo in New York on Tuesday."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Valuation and Option Pool - http://www.avc.com/a_vc...
"mdorov makes a really good point. What Fred didn't make explicit is that the choice isn't whether to have an option pool, but whether it comes out of the pre-money or the post-money valuation. If it comes out of pre-money, it's funded entirely by the entrepreneurs and any preceding investors. If it comes out of the post-money, it's funded by the VC as well. mdorov is right to note that as these options are to be granted to employees hired after the financing, and will produce future value, it would make sense for them to come post-money. But that's precisely why both Fred and Mark Pincus agree that "it's a question of valuation." If options come out of post-money, it's a discussion between management and investor about how much of their mutual equity they want to give up to future employees. If it comes out of the pre-money, it is a question of valuation."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Valuation and Option Pool - http://avc.disqus.com/valuati...
"mdorov makes a really good point. What Fred didn't make explicit is that the choice isn't whether to have an option pool, but whether it comes out of the pre-money or the post-money valuation. If it comes out of pre-money, it's funded entirely by the entrepreneurs and any preceding investors. If it comes out of the post-money, it's funded by the VC as well. mdorov is right to note that as these options are to be granted to employees hired after the financing, and will produce future value, it would make sense for them to come post-money. But that's precisely why both Fred and Mark Pincus agree that "it's a question of valuation." If options come out of post-money, it's a discussion between management and investor about how much of their mutual equity they want to give up to future employees. If it comes out of the pre-money, it is a question of valuation."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Valuation and Option Pool - http://www.disqus.com/people...
"mdorov makes a really good point. What Fred didn't make explicit is that the choice isn't whether to have an option pool, but whether it comes out of the pre-money or the post-money valuation. If it comes out of pre-money, it's funded entirely by the entrepreneurs and any preceding investors. If it comes out of the post-money, it's funded by the VC as well. mdorov is right to note that as these options are to be granted to employees hired after the financing, and will produce future value, it would make sense for them to come post-money. But that's precisely why both Fred and Mark Pincus agree that "it's a question of valuation." If options come out of post-money, it's a discussion between management and investor about how much of their mutual equity they want to give up to future employees. If it comes out of the pre-money, it is a question of valuation."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: A coming new obsession: how to handle a smaller print-book business - http://www.idealog.com/blog...
"This is the best post I've seen on the problems facing publishers, bar none. Mike hit almost every nail square on the head. Some additional points I'd mention are: 1. The disruptive role that Apple stands poised to play in the e-reader market. At O'Reilly, we already sell more copies of our books on the iPhone than we do on the Kindle, and if Apple gets serious about offering books in the iTunes store and offers their own bigger tablet to boot, there's a good chance that they, not any existing player, will be the dominant force in the ebook market. 2. It's worth remembering just how many business models print publishing has supported, and exploring how many of them might apply to ebooks. For example, our Safari Books Online (joint venture with Pearson) is a subscription-based "cloud library" model. While downloadable ebooks are quickly gaining momentum, our sales through Safari are still 4x the size of all downloadable ebook formats combined. While eventually, I do expect downloadable..."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: A coming new obsession: how to handle a smaller print-book business - http://www.disqus.com/people...
"This is the best post I've seen on the problems facing publishers, bar none. Mike hit almost every nail square on the head. Some additional points I'd mention are: 1. The disruptive role that Apple stands poised to play in the e-reader market. At O'Reilly, we already sell more copies of our books on the iPhone than we do on the Kindle, and if Apple gets serious about offering books in the iTunes store and offers their own bigger tablet to boot, there's a good chance that they, not any existing player, will be the dominant force in the ebook market. 2. It's worth remembering just how many business models print publishing has supported, and exploring how many of them might apply to ebooks. For example, our Safari Books Online (joint venture with Pearson) is a subscription-based "cloud library" model. While downloadable ebooks are quickly gaining momentum, our sales through Safari are still 4x the size of all downloadable ebook formats combined. While eventually, I do expect downloadable..."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: A coming new obsession: how to handle a smaller print-book business - http://theshatzkinfiles.disqus.com/a_comin...
"This is the best post I've seen on the problems facing publishers, bar none. Mike hit almost every nail square on the head. Some additional points I'd mention are: 1. The disruptive role that Apple stands poised to play in the e-reader market. At O'Reilly, we already sell more copies of our books on the iPhone than we do on the Kindle, and if Apple gets serious about offering books in the iTunes store and offers their own bigger tablet to boot, there's a good chance that they, not any existing player, will be the dominant force in the ebook market. 2. It's worth remembering just how many business models print publishing has supported, and exploring how many of them might apply to ebooks. For example, our Safari Books Online (joint venture with Pearson) is a subscription-based "cloud library" model. While downloadable ebooks are quickly gaining momentum, our sales through Safari are still 4x the size of all downloadable ebook formats combined. While eventually, I do expect downloadable..."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: A coming new obsession: how to handle a smaller print-book business - http://www.idealog.com/blog...
"This is the best post I've seen on the problems facing publishers, bar none. Mike hit almost every nail square on the head. Some additional points I'd mention are: 1. The disruptive role that Apple stands poised to play in the e-reader market. At O'Reilly, we already sell more copies of our books on the iPhone than we do on the Kindle, and if Apple gets serious about offering books in the iTunes store and offers their own bigger tablet to boot, there's a good chance that they, not any existing player, will be the dominant force in the ebook market. 2. It's worth remembering just how many business models print publishing has supported, and exploring how many of them might apply to ebooks. For example, our Safari Books Online (joint venture with Pearson) is a subscription-based "cloud library" model. While downloadable ebooks are quickly gaining momentum, our sales through Safari are still 4x the size of all downloadable ebook formats combined. While eventually, I do expect downloadable..."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: The Golden Triangle - http://www.disqus.com/people...
"Seems to me that Fred's golden triangle applies to business as well, I'm afraid. There are certainly other trends at work that apply to business, but if you look at real-time for instance, it's at the heart of Google's ascendancy over Yahoo! and Microsoft in Search (real time ad auction). It's at the heart of Wal-mart's success (real time supply chain). I will say that if you interpret these trends narrowly, you will miss a lot of stuff that these words are pointers to. Mobile does not just mean "mobile phone." It means encountering computing out and about in the world. Dig deep, and you will see many other ways that computing is becoming mobile and ubiquitous. Similarly, if you think social is limited to "social networks," you'll miss all the other ways that social has been bubbling up over the years (e.g. Google's pagerank was an early social computing breakthrough). Like a lot of simple formulations that cover a lot of ground, this one is good because it anchors the corners of a..."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: The Golden Triangle - http://www.avc.com/a_vc...
"Seems to me that Fred's golden triangle applies to business as well, I'm afraid. There are certainly other trends at work that apply to business, but if you look at real-time for instance, it's at the heart of Google's ascendancy over Yahoo! and Microsoft in Search (real time ad auction). It's at the heart of Wal-mart's success (real time supply chain). I will say that if you interpret these trends narrowly, you will miss a lot of stuff that these words are pointers to. Mobile does not just mean "mobile phone." It means encountering computing out and about in the world. Dig deep, and you will see many other ways that computing is becoming mobile and ubiquitous. Similarly, if you think social is limited to "social networks," you'll miss all the other ways that social has been bubbling up over the years (e.g. Google's pagerank was an early social computing breakthrough). Like a lot of simple formulations that cover a lot of ground, this one is good because it anchors the corners of a..."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: The Golden Triangle - http://avc.disqus.com/the_gol...
"Seems to me that Fred's golden triangle applies to business as well, I'm afraid. There are certainly other trends at work that apply to business, but if you look at real-time for instance, it's at the heart of Google's ascendancy over Yahoo! and Microsoft in Search (real time ad auction). It's at the heart of Wal-mart's success (real time supply chain). I will say that if you interpret these trends narrowly, you will miss a lot of stuff that these words are pointers to. Mobile does not just mean "mobile phone." It means encountering computing out and about in the world. Dig deep, and you will see many other ways that computing is becoming mobile and ubiquitous. Similarly, if you think social is limited to "social networks," you'll miss all the other ways that social has been bubbling up over the years (e.g. Google's pagerank was an early social computing breakthrough). Like a lot of simple formulations that cover a lot of ground, this one is good because it anchors the corners of a..."
- Tim O'Reilly
Interesting analysis of Twitter's Suggested User List, which @timoreilly objects to in comments: http://twittercism.com/suggest...
Iván Abrego, Rui Pereira, polou/indigo_bow and 57 other people liked this
Scoble, do you feel you're should have been on that featured twitter users list? Or do you feel you deserve a time on it?
- Doubledown_inSL
Interesting. But how did the people on SUL get there on the first place?
- Alex M.
Well said Robert.
- Leo Laporte
Newt Gingrich?? Why *is* Newt Gingrich on the SUL?
- RobinDotNet
I would think having Newt Gingrich on the list would invalidate the entire list. I mean, really.
- RobinDotNet
Doubledown_inSL: I don't want to be on any default list by a platform vendor that I didn't earn my way onto and that YOU can't earn your way onto it either. This is not a meritocracy. It's a royalty system. One that picks stars and gifts them huge audiences.
- Robert Scoble
Ahmed: Twitter picked their favorite people and removed anyone that they saw as a threat to their future business model. Me for talking about friendfeed too much. Leo for complaining about the name. Calacanis for being a pimp. Kawasaki for being too obvious about building his business (Alltop) on top of it. Shall I go on?
- Robert Scoble
Doubledown_inSL: you need to take a look at the original conversation if you haven't already... http://ff.im/4iPSZ
- travispuk
Robert: I see
- Alex M.
reminds me of way clubs in NYC let people in #1.Star Power (BIG NAME), #2 Beauty #3 Wealth
- courtney benson
one thing would be interesting to map - how many of the people on the list have ties to kevin rose... i am betting some interesting trends would show up.
- Allen Stern
Courtney: You forgot women to men ratio! ;)
- travispuk
Travis, right!
- courtney benson
Allen: Leo and I both have ties to Kevin Rose and aren't on the list.
- Robert Scoble
Media has always been star-driven... so one of the measures of success of any star-maker is the editorial judgment and wisdom of their anointed ones. Same in Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Nashville, Bollywood... print, radio, tv, movies... it's inescapable... and, Robert, no matter whose list you do or don;t make it onto, you are already a MAJOR star ;-)
- Fred Davis
robert - im talking about "in his posse" - justine is(was?), gary, etc. it's something that I've wondered about for a while.
- Allen Stern
It's the Web 2.0 Mafia ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Fred: thank you (for those who don't know, Fred is one of the co-founders of Wired Magazine and a star in his own right). But I wasn't gifted my "stardom" by a media platform. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Fred, agreed that Robert is top notch but so is Leo, Guy and Jason as well as Kevin
- courtney benson
Allen: if you said it's "San Francisco gadflys" or "insiders" then I think you're correct. It's just that Kevin is one that's very visible in that circle. Funny, Howard Lindzen and Jeff Pulver and Fred Wilson are investors in Twitter and they aren't on it. I think all three of them deserve it too. I wonder why they aren't gifted a spot?
- Robert Scoble
Robert: surely having investors on the SUL would be a little too inbred, even for twitter?
- travispuk
Travis: probably. I sure would love to see the thinking that goes on behind the scenes when they decide this list. By the way, I've heard from someone close to the Twitter team that complaining about the list gets you added to a black list where you never will get onto it. Which, funny enough, freed me to complain even more. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I guess it would be a little liberating knowing that technically you could not offend them more than you already have. ;)
- travispuk
Dave Winer is very quiet tonight.
- Mark
Mark: I think he's traveling.
- Robert Scoble
I do like his posts. I wish Dave contributed more on Friendfeed though. I think he is a little reluctant because he doesn't want to evangelise FF at all. He isn't interested in getting people from twitter to here, he considers that FF's problem and not something he should freely help towards. I suppose he is the opposite of you Scoble in that regard.
- Mark
wow, I met Steve Johnson recently @MarketingProfs B2B and I did not connect his real life self with the Twitter suggested list :D
- Valeria Maltoni
also, looks like the editors at People magazine picked who they put on the list :)
- Valeria Maltoni
I swear I typed that before I saw People magazine on the list!
- Valeria Maltoni
Robert, I think you're engaging in one of the oldest forms of media self-promotion here: attacking others as a way of drawing attention to yourself. I like you a lot and you're generally very positive. But when you start claiming that twitter "took you off the list" because you promote Friendfeed too much, I think you're playing the same kind of media game that led talk radio and its ilk astray. It doesn't speak well of you.
- Tim O'Reilly
I wondering if there has been anything showing whether being on the SUL effects a business bottom line, if it does or starts to I definitely can see a problem.
- Kim Landwehr
Just guessing but I find it really hard to believe that half the "stars" on the SUL actually write their own tweets. Betting it is all run by a bunch of PR flacks.
- Dave Hodson
Tim: you keep making this about me but I am far from the only one hurt by this list. But you are right and it demonstrates just how many strings are attached here even for people who are not on the list. We can't even discuss the list and how anti-community and how it sets up a corruptible system without looking like a selfish jerk. But you forgot one thing: I will not accept a spot on...
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- Robert Scoble
Tim: but I have written my last word on this. You are right that it serves me no good to talk about this and waste my energy on it. It's just shocking to me that you are defending something that isn't a meritocracy. I was expecting you to be the first one to decry this system of royalty and corruptible systems. The fact that you're all for it and, worse, saying I'm doing this just for self promotion, makes me sad. Really sad.
- Robert Scoble
You are out of order O'Reilly.
- Mark
Robert, you definitely earned your "stardom" but don't forget you also had a helpful platform as a Microsoft house blogger.
- Michael Markman
Thats a pretty weak point, Michael.
- Mark
Michael: and for that I had to interview and win my job (which wasn't easy). Also I had thousands of readers per day BEFORE getting that job and being a Microsoft employee didn't get me on a default list that was included in a platform service. I also didn't get an unfair advantage against other Microsoft employees and Bill Gates didn't "pick" the winners -- the marketplace did (when I...
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- Robert Scoble
Speaking as a non-celebrity looking in: I'm really bugged by this whole thing. First of all, Robert, I didn't need a SUL to follow you. Or Leo or Tim or iJustine or TechCrunch or anyone else on my list. The SUL means nothing to me. I never even looked into it ( I've been on twitter since 2006 way before the SUL was in place) until this whole SUL scandal started coming up. I understand...
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- Lise
Robert, hey, I know you weren't gifted your stardom, you earned it by being RELENTLESS about doing your thing, and doing it in public forums (whatever the forum), i.e.: sharing!!!
- Fred Davis
I think, ideally, SUL's would be personalized, based on your interests, your profile(s), your friends, FOF's, etc. We'd all get a different one, that was (hopefully) more tailored to each of us. The web is about micromedia, and the one-SUL-fits-all approach is so mass media that it doesn't fit in very well... as this whole discussion (and the many others on the SUL topic) underscore.
- Fred Davis
Fred: I agree and its a great point. This is almost what Facebook and LinkedIn do to recommend connections.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I thought LinkedIn had a similar issue a few years ago with the number of connections and they capped the visible connections at 500 and evened the playing field. I like that approach. But it seems that acquiring twitter followers is baked into the twitter dna and they would never create a visible cap at 500.
- Jim Posner
Robert, I love you to death man, but why do you waste so much time and energy on this topic? I certainly don't care who is on the list, it just doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Make you own SUL if you feel others deserve to be heard, you have the webspace and the star power to do it, so just do it. Big hug dude.
- Rob Fahrni
Fred: I'd love a system like that. Sort of like Alltop or WeFollow.com. That would have been the right thing to do. Jim: exactly. Lise: there is a disconnect between those who do this as a business and those who do it just for fun. Audience size means money. Let me know how you feel when someone at work gets a huge raise without deserving it/earning it (especially worse if you've been...
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- Robert Scoble
Rob: I do have my own SUL. It's http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei... and everyone on it earns their way on it every day by posting great content.
- Robert Scoble
So all those sales people and "MAKE MONEY WITH TWITTER" people -- do they make money off of me if I don't follow them back?
- RobinDotNet
I like what Fred said. It really would enhance the service. Tumblr has the right approach, at least in part, on the micro-level with Tumblarity. Each user has their own benchmark. In terms of twitter's SUL, it's fine, there's nothing wrong with it. Twitter is a business. The SUL is one method they use to promote their brand. There's a level of inherent familiarity built into the brand...
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- Benjamin Taylor
PS It's great to see the hulk back, in solidarity.
- Benjamin Taylor
So if there was a revolt and nobody followed people on the SUL who they thought should not be on the SUL, would Twitter leave them on the SUL? If you don't follow someone because they are on the SUL, is that as bad as following them because they are? (Did that make any sense, or did I not get enough sleep last night?)
- RobinDotNet
Exactly Robert, you work your butt off, and I appreciate you for what you bring to the table. I guess being a z-lister, like myself, leaves me on the outside of understanding why this is such a hot topic? Does this really boil down to money? I'm not trying to be an ass here, I truly don't get why it's so important?
- Rob Fahrni
Isn't it kind of like going to google and searching for something, and the first links that show up are the ones that people have paid google money to give them precedence, and they might not even necessarily be the best search result?
- RobinDotNet
Chris, nicely put.
- Rob Fahrni
Benjamin: you don't want to see me when I'm angry! Rob Fahrni: absolutely it's about money. And sex. And influence. And other kinds of measuring I won't mention here. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Rob Fahrni: but mostly it's about building a platform that is a meritocracy. I'm an American. I don't like royalty based systems. If you can't earn your way onto this list I don't want any part of it.
- Robert Scoble
Oh Robert, you're killin me man!
- Rob Fahrni
Rob Fahrni: I'm in a good mood. Peter Himmelman is rocking! http://peterhimmelman.com/furious... Come join us, more fun than debating stupid lists.
- Robert Scoble
Then Google isn't an exact model, because it IS a meritocracy, even though it's based on cash.
- RobinDotNet
Robin: I've never paid to be on Google. So far Google is a pretty darn good example of a good platform vendor that lets the marketplace decide winners and losers.
- Robert Scoble
Don't they have paid links that take precedence? I guess the diff is that though they might have that (and I don't know that they do for sure), they also show everybody else that fits the search criteria.
- RobinDotNet
Robin: absolutely not. The paid links were always separate on Google and never were mixed in with the free ones.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I meant killin me in a good way, I'm grinning ear-to-ear. I see your point but doesn't all this attention, even negative attention, just add to the popularity of the thing you despise? You're one of the good guys Robert, don't let this drag you down. I think this is great fodder for a very long essay on Scobleizer.
- Rob Fahrni
Got it. That's good to know. So the links that best meet the search criteria are on the top. Hmmm. Sounds like meritocracy to me. You're right, not like Twitter's SUL.
- RobinDotNet
derikp: if my son is better at playing soccer and isn't chosen I'd certainly go and talk to the coach and plead his case. But we're not talking about soccer and anyway I'm done discussing this. Onward. I'm glad there are so many people who like royalty based systems and don't understand why meritocracies are important to defend. I guess that's how we end up with countries like Iran and China. Sigh.
- Robert Scoble
Why should there be a list at all? Follow people that interest you. You make twitter what it is.
- Ryan Gerritsen
Bill: You can not like the SUL and still use Twitter. Apples and oranges. I don't like many of the people who live in my town, yet I still live here and like the town.
- Curt Mercadante
oh when will lame twitter SUL get corrected?! *sigh*
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
And, by the way, it seems like the SUL is being used like the same "mass follower" tools that the Twitter folks are seeking to diminish by killing the accounts of those who use them.
- Curt Mercadante
Reason I still use Twitter, I still get more responses from my Tweets than in FF. Yet I tend to be more engaged in FF these days but I think the FF celebs usually spark the most engaging threads and the rest of us are trying to get that engagement from our posts.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
manielse: there's no audience more engaged than one you build yourself by being of service to them. It's tough work and I'll be watching and engaging!
- Robert Scoble
Sorry I wasn't complaining, just saying many of us built that in Twitter and find it a little tougher to get traction on FriendFeed with our posts. I think tools like WeFollow, Twellow (and even #followfriday) help build relevant audiences easier. You can even argue that SUL is even a good starting place for n00bs.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
manielse: yeah, the eco system that's built up around Twitter is quite powerful. On the other hand here all you need to do is follow someone active and they bring other people into your view (every time I click "like" or comment on someone's items I push those items into your view, for instance) so finding new people to follow here is much nicer and much less of a competition. Plus you find new voices that aren't on any list a lot faster here, I've found.
- Robert Scoble
Manielse, ditto Robert S
- Myrna
Maybe they could reward early twitter users with a day on the list for every month on twitter before 08. If new social networks would promise props in the future I could live without twitter.
- Greg Birch
Although the SUL is obviously distorting of the natural community growth of Twitter, and does not really fulfill the functions @Ev and @Biz intended, "power users" not on the SUL who criticize it should know: they sound really vain, chippy, and silly.
- Jason Pontin
I don't care who is on the Twitter SUL, and I pay no attention to it. I look for the Twitter feeds that are most interesting to me -- they are not difficult to find, with a bit of searching. I don't understand the preoccupation with that list -- like everything on the Internet, it is simple to route around or ignore entirely.
- Sean McBride
Jason: we know that. If I lived in fear of looking vain, chippy, or silly, I'd just stay off the Internet! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I do not know you or Tim but I do follow and have great respect for you both. IMHO (I am an amateur when compared to you guys), Tim was not saying that he supports the SUL. Do I agree with his comment? Nope. Do I like the SUL? No. But it does happen that if you criticise a list while you mention that you have not been included it can sound like you are "jealous" even if you are not and you do have good reasons for not liking the list... so this can be a tricky one!
- Pablo Melchor
Really, the personalized way is the only good way... I mean, sheesh, Twitter recommends people like Ashlee Simpson to me, ferchrissakes! So most of the people on the SUL are a total waste for me, and I suppose for most people, when you get right down to it... if I had some $ to burn I'd get some outside research firm like Insight Express to scope out how the SUL is actually viewed,...
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- Fred Davis
I still think most people find suggested users through word-of-mouth and their own social circles. That's the only way to get the people you really want to follow based on your interests. I've also found that using hashtags properly will get the kind of users you want to follow to you before you get to them.
- Fleagle
I am tracking people on Twitter's SUL like @timoreilly. They can't get people to follow them on Facebook or FriendFeed. Here's analysis:
Steffan Antonas, Zulkarnain K., Andreas Edler and 66 other people liked this
Tim has 617,000 followers on Twitter -- almost all gained because he is on the suggested user list. But he only has 10,000 followers on FriendFeed. TechCrunch has almost the same pattern. Why is this?
- Robert Scoble
They can't get people to follow them because the people who added them are not really listening and impressionable.
- Louis Gray
You have to be engaged and interactive to have influence.
- Louis Gray
It's what I was hinting at this morning. Most of the users on Twitter don't actually take action or DO anything. They aren't followers. They aren't listening. They aren't engaged. So these audiences can't be transfered anywhere else.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter is Revolution! Yay Twitter!
- Steven E. Streight
This is Twitter's true lock in.
- Robert Scoble
Could it also be that they never talk about Friendfeed or Facebook while on Twitter and therefore no one knows that they're actually here?
- Kenton
Yeah, Twitter has turned into more micro-rss for me versus conversational.
- Tony
Why would any freedom loving person NOT have a green avatar?
- Steven E. Streight
617,000, but how many of those are active users? I'd imagine 50% or more are one time users, dead accounts
- sean percival
It's all about narcissism for most people unfortunately.
- Steven E. Streight
It's impossible for anybody to have 617,000 followers on Friendfeed, because that's about double the active network size. ;)
- Shéa Bennett
LOL
- Steven E. Streight
Shea: very funny!
- Robert Scoble
Kenton, That's it for me. I follow Tim on Twitter, actually find him very engaged there, but didn't automatically assume he was on FB and FF. Now I will
- Francine Hardaway
I hate FaceBook
- Steven E. Streight
also the chance of someone responding on a sul is higher on friendfeed that is on twitter
- Kashif Khan
Shea: the problem with your thesis is that it holds true on Facebook. I have more fans there than TechCrunch does.
- Robert Scoble
Also, if you only ever re-tweet instead of putting up original content your followers are going to tend to be more passive.
- Kenton
how about them dopey Positive Affirmation tweeters? Ugh!
- Steven E. Streight
If I want inspirational quotes, I'll open a Bible thank you.
- Steven E. Streight
Kenton: that's true too, but TechCrunch puts up original content and he has fewer followers on Facebook than I do (and I post almost NOTHING on Facebook).
- Robert Scoble
This is the very basic definition of following, you don't act, you follow. If you want to engage people, you need a community, which twitter can help you to manage but won't do for you. @loic can make many people do something, he has influence, because he built a community, not because he has followers.
- Jonathan Belgourari
Jonathan: yup and Guy Kawasaki has a lot more influence than I do and he neither is on Twitter's SUL and he doesn't even write all his own Tweets (he admits he has a team writing them).
- Robert Scoble
if you have a lot of followers interaction is very limited. You miss out on so much when you hit the refresh page when you have followers . Im guessing after many attempts of trying to communicate and not receiving anything back ppl quit
- Kashif Khan
Jonathan: I call that a "reader" or a "consumer" then, not a follower. Followers do what you ask them to do. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Went and looked for him on FB. Not even a photo? Does he hang out there?
- Francine Hardaway
on a much smaller scale I've looked at overlaps between my twitter (3000) fb (900) ff (800); there seems to be about 300 people who are common to all three, the rest choose where and how to interact with me. I tend to think of the 300 as my "digital dunbar number".
- JP Rangaswami
Kashif: I interact here with almost everyone and I have 42,000 followers here.
- Robert Scoble
good point Robert, I don't really consider Facebook a place to go for information like that so I had only really considered Friendfeed.
- Kenton
Twitter is a different medium to the others, Robert. It's a lot less of a commitment to follow somebody on that network. FF has a relatively tiny user base so a comparison there is apples and oranges. Facebook for the majority is still less about following *anybody* and more about following people you know and trust. Why? Because you're giving away a lot of yourself each time you add...
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- Shéa Bennett
Alex: heheh. I'm not the only insane one.
- Robert Scoble
but where is interacting easier , twitter or friendfeed ?
- Kashif Khan
Shea: the truth about Twitter is that many people check it out for a few minutes and then never return to the service. Or if they do return, they do so very sporadically. Over here or on Facebook the audiences are much more engaged.
- Robert Scoble
imagine having to track this same conversation using twitters web interface and not having tweetdeck or seismic to help you out
- Kashif Khan
Robert: I keep hearing that but I'm very engaged with my network. And I regularly remove the people who I feel don't make any kind of an effort. It's all about keeping things relative.
- Shéa Bennett
Shea: the other truth about the Suggested User List is these are not organic followers. They are people who opened an account and clicked "add all the suggested users." Before Tim and Mashable and TechCrunch were added to that list I had more followers on Twitter. So did Leo Laporte. So did Guy Kawasaki. So, most of those newer followers that Tim and Mike got by being on the SUL aren't strong followers. That's why they aren't very engaged.
- Robert Scoble
I agree re: Twitter - they check it out and then leave - the follow and forget methodology. I guess the real measure of how interactive his followers are would be to request that they do something (click a link, etc.) In reality, if he got 1/10 of 1% to do anything, I'd be impressed.
- Jeff Pomeroy
You also have to remember that the majority of FB's 200 million users are non-techy people, many of whom see FB *as* the internet, not just a product of it. I think Twitter's audience is maturer (in terms of average age, as well as content) and less interesting in bells and whistles (videos, music etc).
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: what got Twitter to be so cool is engagedment USED to be a lot higher than 1/10th of 1% for everyone. Now it has gone down.
- Robert Scoble
I have no disagreement at all about the SUL. I've written several articles about it on Twittercism. It needs to be scrapped or totally revamped. And yeah, a lot of the followers folk get from being on the SUL are very casual users, assuming they return at all.
- Shéa Bennett
Shea: I totally disagree with that thesis. I did a survey of 600 Web innovators, influencers, and press. About 85% are on all three social networks (Twitter, Friendfeed, Facebook). And many of those are participating more on Facebook than on Twitter lately. Why is that?
- Robert Scoble
Alex: I blocked spymaster. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Maybe they are participating on Facebook more because they can truly control who sees what when they have their discussions. Twitter allows a lot of 'noise' to occur from unknown followers when these people are trying to communicate amongst themselves. Maybe Facebook or Friendfeed is just the better medium for those types of interactions.
- Jeff Pomeroy
Robert: Which thesis? Blasted Friendfeed and its lack of threaded comments. ;)
- Shéa Bennett
even on FB its easier to track conversations
- Kashif Khan
As for why your list are involved more on FB than Twitter, I have no idea. But 600 from either network is still a very small sample. I'm confused how these folk are actually "participating" on FB, too. Specifically, what does that word mean on that network? What do they do? My experience is that over half of my followers go ballistic if I update my status on FB more than about 15-20 times per day. And I'm *very* selective to make sure it's only the good stuff. :)
- Shéa Bennett
It is personality vs brand. You Robert, Jason Calacanis, Leo Lapporte, are personalities before brand. We talk to you as real people. O'riley is brand before personality. We are not used to talking back to a brand unless we're miffed about something. It is just not normal. For instance today when you asked my question at the #hpreveal thing it cought them off guard and totally blew me...
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- Ron Hudson
Ron: good point. The real answer is that Twitter totally messed with the system by choosing its own "stars" instead of letting the real stars organically bubble up to the top. Since O'Reilly and Arrington are "chosen stars" their followers aren't strong followers like the ones that they got organically. Even Arrington admits this in analysis.
- Robert Scoble
I totally agree with Ron about that. That's what I love about FF and Twitter - it's the first time that we've had anything like a level playing field for discourse. And the ones who don't engage now stand out like sore thumbs.
- Shéa Bennett
I always love it when somebody has 40,000 followers but is following 40 people. What a waste. Why even engage? You, Robert have almost as many followers as followees.
- Curt Mercadante
for me it seems that given his lopsided ratio, it gives the impression that he is not truly interactive but rather broadcasting and waiting for feedback.
- Eran Even-Kesef
An engaged audience is built slowly, not quickly
- Jesse Stay
So now when a new user gets on Twitter they see the same reinforced message from everywhere else. "These are people/brands you should LISTEN to" It is not "These are people to get to know and have conversation with"
- Ron Hudson
Robert, wouldn't the organic SUL just be the top 100 most-followed? Which even before the SUL got going wasn't exactly a bastion of quality. All Twitter needs to do is mix things up - when I sign up (or check the SUL at any time), the service should give me X of its own recommendations, and the same amount that are tailored to me by my own interests. Of course, for this to really work...
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- Shéa Bennett
Curt: lots of people use these things for broadcasting. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I do prefer to follow people who engage.
- Robert Scoble
Hey Louis Gray are you anti-SUL like many of us in this thread?
- Mark
I followed @timoreilly for a while on twitter, but didn't find him interesting enough to keep following. It's true that @GuyKawasaki doesn't write all his own tweets, but I like them and look forward to them (if one of his ladies have written the tweet they will have their initials at the end of it.) I follow you, Robert, because I like your tweets too. I will follow anyone who follows...
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- Andrew Jordan
Shea: I can see about 100 ways to build a useful SUL. The current SUL just serves @ev and @biz 's own egos and purposes.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: just remember that Twitter has signaled to the world that anyone who begs to be on, or complains about the SUL will never get onto it.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I agree. Between us, if they added you overnight, would you ask to be removed? I suspect you would, and I know at least one other has.
- Shéa Bennett
Robert: Why do you think you are not on the Twitter SUL? iJustine was on it (til she was removed) - yet no Scobleizer - It makes zero sense.
- Jim Connolly
Shea: yes, I will ask to be removed. I know one person who removed himself too. (Jay Rosen, journalism professor). Why would I ask to be removed? Because it's a huge gift and one that I would feel I need to disclose every time I talk about Twitter. Look at how many times I'm asked whether I'm paid by FriendFeed. Well, everyone on the Suggested User List is being paid by Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
This feels like irc without the useful tools like tab-auto-complete. I keep wanting to ssh out and open irssi. . .
- Ron Hudson
Aw man, I miss IRC.
- Jason Nunnelley
There's a group of people I follow on twitter not to be part of their conversation but to inform conversations I have with people I know. My friends/acquaintances don't use friendfeed so I have little use for it. Facebook I leave for friends/family and twitter/web forums are for acquaintances.
- Jonathan
Jim: three reasons I have never been on Twitter's Suggested User List: 1. Technically I was difficult to put on the list before they got rid of the @ reply functionality (I was one of the 3% who turned that feature on). 2. I talk about FriendFeed all the time (I wouldn't add someone who talked about a competitor all the time to my service either). 3. I have had days when I'm too noisy...
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- Robert Scoble
Does anyone know or have links to comments made by people on the SUL about the issue?
- Mark
Robert: Thats a very honest and almost certainly accurate answer.
- Jim Connolly
Mark: I've had some contact with @adventuregirl.
- Shéa Bennett
There is a risk here of course regarding complaining about the SUL that one could easily be accused of sour grapes; that is, along the lines of, "How did THEY get on there, and not me?" Although I also suspect that the majority (the masses, if you will) on Twitter don't really care at all about things like the SUL, and are fairly blasé to the criticisms about it. I sincerely believe...
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- Shéa Bennett
Mark: honestly I've been following the SUL and other than when Veronica ripped me a new one for asking whether there was some sort of corruption to get on the list (big brands get on the list, for instance, and this list is totally corruptible because it is NOT a meritocracy) I can't remember ever hearing someone on the SUL discussing it in public. They know better because they are being gifted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of followers and they don't want to be removed.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: It's REALLY hard getting answers from people like Veronica Belmont or Pete Cashmore. They are both really cool people, but neither have replied to anything I have asked them, in relation to their SUL places. It's like they have been gagged.
- Jim Connolly
Mark: It's here http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009...
- Jim Connolly
Shea: most people will not care, that's right, until they figure out they are peasants in a royalty system. Then they will seek out systems that are meritocracies. The tide is already moving.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: To your earlier point re: Tim O'Reilly - if the SUL system is broken and really just a method whereby new twitter users follow & forget, are these people truly "being gifted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of followers"?
- Jeff Pomeroy
I'm sure most of them don't wanna look a gift horse in the mouth. Is that the right metaphor? hehe
- Mark
Hmm, I'm not sure Robert. Nobody seemed to leave FB when they were at risk of being sold out - the numbers just went up and up. I think the people who truly fight for this stuff are always in a real minority - they seem more prevalent because they're loud! :) I think most people drift away from social networks when they seem to have run their course, like MySpace.
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: yes, they are because they are now owning the top of lists at http://www.wefollow.com and other places. Also they are getting PR on TV shows worth many thousands of dollars (journalists love picking sources with huge numbers after their names). Finally: SOME of these followers DO engage.
- Robert Scoble
Maybe Tim is too focused? he is not a chit chat BS guy enough to interest large amounts of people... Focus gives value but value that is high and very specific to certain (few) people. As you hinted Robert, value is not a matter of # of followers but of real impact /traction. People will listen and act more upon what is said on FF. FF is more value than traffic.
- Harscoat
Maybe if a few dozen of us from this thread @reply the big players asking for a statement on their placw on SUL they will respond?
- Mark
Scoble: I'm not sure they/we will seek out meritocracies. Like I said before it is not expected. I can go to crackberry forums or IRC if I want to be respected in a niche I think Facebook is more likely to draw people who want to be heard by their peers, because generally it is people you already have an established hierarchy of popularity with. It's high-school all over again. We tend to hang with our group and don't expect to be heard in others.
- Ron Hudson
Don't get me wrong - folk will put their name on lists, and that kind of non-committal stuff. But when it comes to the crunch and, you know, actually quitting over change, they rarely do.
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: Yes they are, because most of them are selling some kind of advertising on their sites / blogs / podcasts etc. These are often sold on volume of eyeballs, and these will have increased by tens of thousands of percent after gaining all those Twitter followers.
- Jim Connolly
"you did receive a gift. Advertising is sold by 1,000 viewers. Ask Ryan how much 1,000 people are worth. You did NOT earn that gift by any objective measure." - Rob Scoble, Feb 2009
- Mark
Mark: Unlikely. I think Robert is right - far too much to lose. Man, if they added me to the list, this time next week I'd be a millionaire! ;)
- Shéa Bennett
Calacanis was widely quoted as saying a slot on the SUL was worth $250,000 US.
- Jim Connolly
Robert: keep those threads coming, I get to follow good people on real-time, it's better than any Twitter SUL :)
- Nir Ben Yona
Harscoat: I don't disagree a bit. Ron: good point about people not seeking out meritocracies. It does pollute the community, though, and people do figure that out eventually. If anything Facebook went the other way by limiting EVERYONE to 5,000. That brings celebrities down to everyone else's level, which builds good feelings and keeps marketers out.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: It's worth far more than that. Mashable is close to 1 million followers. The account tweets about 15-20 times per day, most back to their own site. That network size is worth millions. TC isn't far behind, and is already saying Twitter is about 10% of their traffic. Jason's semi-serious offer was probably high at the time, but I think a spot on that list now over 12 months is worth easily a million bucks to a brand or power-blog.
- Shéa Bennett
Bill: yup. Today I was talking with Alexander. He says that people will continue seeking out "smaller" spaces. My wife likes Facebook better than FriendFeed or Twitter for that reason: she feels it's the place where she can talk with just her circle of friends.
- Robert Scoble
tidbit of info: spoke to someone last night (who shall remain nameless) that said they went up by >10k followers per day when they were put on the SUL. They still consider that their real follower numbers are closer to their organic growth rate.
- Bill Sanders
I hope all the big players move to FF soon so I can stop visiting twitter.com altogether.
- Mark
I mean, $1/user that you can hit 15-20 times per day, 365 days a year, and if they unfollow, you're going to get another 40-50,000/week because you're on the SUL? I cannot believe Twitter doesn't monetize this feature.
- Shéa Bennett
Shea: I think you are probably right - the numbers are insane and the SUL system is totally corrupt.
- Jim Connolly
Robert, saying that people like me "can't build a following on Friendfeed" is silly. There are only so many networks that you can put time into. For whatever reason, I've chosen Twitter. You've chosen FriendFeed. The fact that I have 10,000 followers on FriendFeed is good news, given that I don't spend time here. Heck, I had 5,000 on Twitter when I started paying attention and using the service.
- Tim O'Reilly
Thanks for coming Tim, do you agree with Robert that your SUL status is a "gift" and one in which makes it difficult for you to report on twitter honestly?
- Mark
And for what it's worth, the SUL isn't very useful except for bragging rights. I had about 60K twitter followers when I went on the SUL; my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don't know any better.
- Tim O'Reilly
After all, the SUL is giving you lots of clicks, and clicks = page views and page views = dollars?
- Mark
Tim: this post isn't only about you. But you must admit that you had fewer followers on Twitter than I did before you got added to the Suggested User List. You are getting gifted hundreds of thousands of followers per month. They aren't engaged. They won't do what you ask them to. Have you studied the hit rates the things you retweet are getting before and after getting on teh SUL?
- Robert Scoble
Tim: You deserve to be on the SUL, but many of your SUL buddies don't. It really stinks, the way some of those names were added, and people like Leo Laporte and Scoble were blanked.
- Jim Connolly
Mark - being on the Twitter SUL has absolutely no influence on what I do or do not report about Twitter.
- Tim O'Reilly
Thanks, Tim x
- Mark
Ahh, I see you have studied the hit rates and your observations match mine. These aren't "real" followers and they aren't engaged. Twitter did that to remove people they don't like from the top of the leaderboards (like Calacanis, Laporte, and me).
- Robert Scoble
Is this about numbers (i.e. ratings and money) or is this about engagement?
- Sawyer Training, Inc.
Incidentally, was iJustine removed from the SUL for something she said? Just wondering. I'd be interested to see if somebody on that list could be very critical about Twitter and stay on it.
- Shéa Bennett
Tim is unsurprisingly savvy on the matter: "my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don't know any better." In other words, organic followers are worth 10x more clicks/$$ than SUL followers.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Robert, did you recently share a Whisky with @Ev? What are the twitter bosses saying about the SUL and yoru complaints?
- Mark
Tim: how do we know that, though? If you paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars per year I would need to disclose that to my audience and it would be very tough not to be influenced by that money you're paying me. Twitter is paying you a huge sum of money in followers and yet you say it has no influence on you.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: I didn't bring it up with @ev (other than to make a small joke that he was building his own celebrities with the SUL, which he nervously smiled at). Why? Because I'd rather have these discussions out in public where you can see them and know that I'm not playing "footsie" with Twitter to get onto the list.
- Robert Scoble
Sure it changes Tim's experience of the service and (at the least) doubles his direct financial rewards from the service but he's presumably not working on a word of mouth contract with them. The only way to be *completely* sure there's no conflict of interest would be for oreilly.com to block/redirect all direct or indirect clickthroughs from Twitter and I'm sure we can all agree that's not feasible.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
That's just like the Robert we have known for a long time...
- Amit Nangare
If this is about engagement consider that for me most of my engagement is "downstream" with my followers (who are few but important to me) rather than "upstream" where I look for trends, leads, and insights. I only interact upstream on rare occasions when I feel I might have something to add (and this may not be one of those times).
- Sawyer Training, Inc.
Tim: It is impossible for you to be totally unbiased regarding Twitter, surely?
- Jim Connolly
I like to think that after Robert had that whisky from Ev, his life spiralled out of control, a bit like something in Michael Douglas' The Game. Three days disappeared in a blur, and when he woke up, the only working login he had left was on Plurk. ;)
- Shéa Bennett
It's impossible for any business to be completely unbiased regarding media outlets that cover/enable them, Jim. The best we can hope for is full disclosure, published conduct guidelines, and ombudsmen.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Mark: also that wasn't an appropriate time socially. His wife was there, it wasn't an on the record type event, and it's not nice to be a jerk on a Saturday night.
- Robert Scoble
Well I suppose twitter sends money to the SUL via followers, how is it it any different than Dell sending money to you via free laptops?
- Mark
Daniel: We are talking about a 6 figure 'gift' from a company, to a group of people who write about that company. This is a really big deal.
- Jim Connolly
@Shéa Bennett: Ijustine - man did that get old fast. That's what happens after 100 episodes of the same "yeah, yeah, you can ask ij"
- Asgeir
Daniel: it's pretty hard to figure out that people are on the SUL. You have to have a new account and look every few days. Some people are building tracking systems to watch who is added and who is taken off (iJustine was on for a while but isn't anymore and she now is losing followers, if you watch the charts). Disclosure? People who are on this list don't see it as a gift.
- Robert Scoble
Fair point, Rob x
- Mark
It's simply a matter of scale, Jim. There is no realistic way for Tim to remain completely objective aside from eschewing Twitter altogether. As long as he is above board re: his dealings with Twitter that's really all that anyone can expect of him.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Mark: if I take gifts I disclose it. I'd rather have the followers the SUL gives someone than a free laptop. A laptop is only worth $2,000. Getting on the SUL is worth many many more times that.
- Robert Scoble
when i said "you", i didnt mean any of you in particular with the laptops
- Mark
"you" just sounds better than "one" - how english of me
- Mark
Good point, Robert. Perhaps Twitter should make it super obvious that people are on the SUL. It *would* be nice if text from SUL tweeters was visually distinguishable from regular tweeters so that we could know to (not) pay attention to it as per our preferences.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
One respectfully disagrees :)
- Ian Betteridge
Regarding iJustine, I'm guessing she was pulled from the SUL early May? Check the chart: http://twittercounter.com/compare... If that date correlates, that probably says all we need to know about the benefits.
- Shéa Bennett
Robert - do you think all Twitter-related content published by SULers should include a boilerplate disclaimer such as "BTW I get zillions of clicks through Twitter's preferential treatment" at the top of every story?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Daniel: at Steve Broback's Twitter Conference the Twitter employees were visibly uncomfortable talking about the SUL. It's interesting that they added a "verified" icon to my account but they aren't identifying who is on the SUL.
- Robert Scoble
Whoa, Shéa
- Mark
It was cool of Tim to 'almost' talk about the SUL here. The guy's a tech legend and is there on merit - I just wish the list was balanced so others who equally deserve a slot had one.
- Jim Connolly
Daniel: yes. If the New York Times journalists were receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars from a company they cover, wouldn't you expect them to disclose that?
- Robert Scoble
I won't argue with you there at all, Robert. I would be happy seeing disclaimers and graphics denoting SUL status. I was thinking the problem was more Twitter's than Tim's but I suppose it's both.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
That graphic blew my mind, Shea. Thanks!
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Are most professional journalists doing online content paid based on page views?
- Mark
or is it pay per article?
- Mark
Jim: I wish the list was a meritocracy and based on your actual usage and value you add to Twitter. Personally I wish we had a list a lot more like wefollow.com or alltop.com than what Twitter came up with. Mark: yes.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: EXACTLY!
- Jim Connolly
Mark: Journalism companies get paid by 1000 page views. That's called CPM. They then usually pay their reporters per article, or per word, or they are salaried.
- Robert Scoble
One reason is FriendFeed lacks a way of linking to other users in a post. On Twitter you can @timoreilly or @TechCrunch and I'd click on them and see if they are worth following. Since you can't do that on FriendFeed I don't bother to look to see if they are worth following.
- ChiliMac
Jim: I find it insulting that Oprah was added to the Suggested User List after doing only a dozen or so entries on Twitter. How did they know she would be a good Twitterer after only that few? How insulting is that to all the other people who put tons more work into the system?
- Robert Scoble
I don't think this SUL thing is about numbers, it's about ego and personality. Can you live without expressing your personal believes and have PR people do your job or say what you have to say out loud on public and give up the courtesy and goodies. Why is it about personality? Example: When Scoble came to visit my country (Israel) everyone could have a talk with him directly without...
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- Nir Ben Yona
ChiliMac: funny, I found you just fine and subscribed to you here. It's a different way, though. Here you put full URLs into the message. Like "hey, everyone, follow ChiliMac here: http://friendfeed.com/chilimac "
- Robert Scoble
Robert: If being on the list has negligible value as you proposed (and Tim essentially confirmed) in terms of click-throughs, are we perhaps being overly concerned with its 'benefits'? If Tim's network has gone x10 and his clicks are x2, it's likely that his gain is from a lot of people who followed him organically (i.e., normal network growth).
- Shéa Bennett
Robert: The Oprah situation took the SUL issue and exposed it for what it is; a 'buddy list.' Not based on merit or value. I only heard of Twitter because of you and Leo. There are hundreds of thousands of early users who only discovered Twitter off you and Leo's mentions. How soon they forget!
- Jim Connolly
Shea: perhaps we are overly concerned. But I notice that people don't often remove themselves from this list, and even when they do (like in Jay Rosen's case) it's only after really thinking through the ethical responsibility of taking a huge gift from a corporation that they potentially cover.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: exactly. I really hate it when companies love you when they are getting started because they need a few evangelistic users (ICQ started with only 40 users, so that's all you really need) but then they stab you in the back once they don't need you anymore. That's why more than a few bloggers now ask for stock or fees to cover their companies. Me? I will continue being a sucker for an entrepreneur with a great product or service.
- Robert Scoble
value is the way and not arbitrary will from kings (ev and biz eg)... so this thread opens one's eyes to the not so fair and ego driven aspect of twitter as a cy ( I still remember @ev with the Trump daughter in front of the white house ;) - SUL = buddy list of @ev and @biz... liked Jim suggestion
- Harscoat
I agree about Oprah but Twitter wants names on there - people that the 180 million Facebook users they don't have on Twitter right now will recognise. Everybody knows Oprah. It isn't about being a 'good Twitterer' (which is of course a relative term - one man's P. Diddy is another man's Jack Schofield) - it's about new users going, "Hey, I know this person." and that validates the...
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- Shéa Bennett
I wish Twitter wold make it easier to connect with people that has same interests. wefollow is on the right track, but people add themselves to categories they don't belong in. The one with most follower under #photo has, as far as I can tell, never written anything about photos, or photo related news
- Asgeir
there are the "cooperators" and "free riders/defectors" in life (in evo psy terms) - Robert is a cooperator (interested in the overall value for the group rather than his own personal interest)! pointing at entrepreneurs with great product and services for the community. Do not change
- Harscoat
Twitter is really just a broadcast medium, you can be influential and be on the SUL, but it's more likely you just have a bunch of people checking out the service once and never looking again. FF allows you to build value and relationships around conversations. Take this very thread. Which is more monetizable in the long run? I think twitter will just become another protocol, FF provides a far more valuable service. But that's just my opinion really, and it all depends on how YOU define "useful"
- John
I try to participate, but I have anywhere from 60 to 80 hours of work a week, and adding Twitter and FF to the list increased my hours. So I can't always participate even though I want to.
- RobinDotNet
Robert, I'm intrigued by your success and focus on this subject. I wonder, how do you think a group fairs compared to a single personality? At the moment, you're the king of social media in my opinion because of your engagement. The attention you command is ten fold the value of Ashton's million plus drive-by fans. But, could 10 top-notch social folks stuck to a brand (like Mashable's core Twitter brand) out-perform a single guy's personal touch? [Sorry, I did go a bit OT]
- Jason Nunnelley
The truth is the SUL list on Twitter falsely inflates everyone numbers who are on it, I suspect if Tim O'Reilly wasn't on the list his numbers percentage wise would be just about the same whether we are talking Twitter or FF. I also think that since FF doesn't have an auto follow method, like twitter, their is more thought put into who someone is going to follow.
- Kim Landwehr
Kim: That's true, but it's not just a question of auto-follow. One, Facebook doesn't allow one-way following - you have to be 'friends'. Two, for most people, letting somebody friend them on FB is a fairly big deal as that person then has access to a lot of your life (personal details, photos, etc - it AMAZES me how many people put their cellphone number on Facebook, and then just...
more...
- Shéa Bennett
I agree SUL is billboard advertising. Essel-i support that 'just like to read' is fine for some. That's how I participate with Wikipedia and I can see some on twitter will simply be there looking for new eddies in the river of news. FriendFeed and Facebook lead for those of us wanting greater depth: No matter if you are a platform or a "personality" how is quality engagement promoted...
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- Lane Rapp
Jason: I am often at a disadvantage competing against brands with many people employed like TechCrunch and Mashable. What was interesting was that I (and others like Leo Laporte, Calacanis, Kawasaki, et al) was able to compete before the SUL propelled them above me and into a different league. At least on Twitter. Everywhere else I'm still kicking their behinds. Which is worth studying,...
more...
- Robert Scoble
I am not on the Twitter SUL. I have 15,000 on Twitter and 2,700 on FF. Could it be that there are fewer peeps on FF?
- Beth Kanter
Beth: that's a pretty common ratio, but doesn't match anyone's who is on the SUL. But, you miss my point. On Facebook (which has far far far more people than Twitter) TechCrunch has far fewer fans than I do but on Twitter he has far more, all artificially gained. If TechCrunch were smart he'd have those people also follow his fan page on Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
But you bring up an interesting point, Beth, for another thread. Why aren't your followers good followers of yours? I imagine you've told them about friendfeed. Why don't your followers listen to you? I thought it was just me.
- Robert Scoble
What about the shear time to keep up with the topics of the day? For me twitter is all about reading quick short headlines, getting a pulse on what's going on, and then making a decision on what topics are important enough to engage deeper on. FF, FC, blogs, etc are the place to go deeper into the conversation. If you buy off on that, then the math comes into play,Twitter is the grand...
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- Robert Wilkins
Oprah, by the way, has 1,619,000 on Twitter and 760,000 on Facebook. I wonder how many followers Oprah was gifted by being on the recommended follower list, but you can see why Twitter is doing this. The higher Oprah's numbers are on Twitter the cooler Twitter seems and the more hype it gets and the more celebrities want to chase Oprah, even if they are for fake followers who don't mean that much. Brilliant strategy on Twitter's part.
- Robert Scoble
yea, oprah=cool. you toting your camera maybe not so much to mainstream, glad to see the new hulk photo ;-)
- Lane Rapp
Lane: Oprah is cool? Have you seen her Tweets? Not cool at all.
- Robert Scoble
I have very different uses for each: Twitter, Facebook, FriendFeed...
- Kelly A Nelson
Robert, Oprah's tweets are indeed superficial. Totally not engaged. She would do well to use twitter to engage both her audience and her causes between seasons. My joke was framed sarcastically enuff, but was to support your entire discussion here, that the SUL is rigged for twitter and celeb marketing.
- Lane Rapp
Meh. all these celebs taking twitter away from us geeks :( its ours :(
- Mark
Ellen Degeneres does a good job in my opinion
- Lane Rapp
Mark, give twitter to the masses, sometimes I get the feeling FF wants to remain a niche. I can't say I would be disappointed as long as the lights stay on. We can contribute like we do on NPR.
- Lane Rapp
Lane: they said that about Twitter two years ago. The thing is here that FriendFeed has nooks and crannies that can let us hide from the masses a lot better than we can hide on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Beth, I think the difference between Twitter and FF is two fold, compounded and a big indicator as to why Robert may fair so much better here and FB. Twitter simplifies the competition (if there is such a thing, though people perceive it's real, so it is). It's all about followers and extremely competitive to gain them. FriendFeed is culturally different, and conversational. This kind...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Yes we can hide away in little corners, and even go private rooms if we want a little insider chat. Friendfeed is our underground movement!
- Mark
Something Robert has done that works best in more conversational SM is brand himself as an all around cool guy. He's not "Robert Scoble the tech guru." Mashable and Techcrunch are very limited in their scope, so readers are likely to read their blip about their preferred technology and move on. Robert engages his readers on a multitude of topics, much more conversational. He'll actually...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Robert, thanks I'll do my part to welcome the masses while I learn more about the nooks and crannies. I noticed how all the FF user help rooms are active, but the Facebook user groups have limited discussion.
- Lane Rapp
Lane (WARNING: shameless promotion) I'd be happy to host more conversations in newb regarding Facebook if you like, post tutorials, videos, etc. Are you more often a question source or an answer source? <edit> Meaning, I'd like to have someone else post help there if I start pushing my readers to the group.
- Jason Nunnelley
Anyone heard any news about new friendfeed features? Sure would be cool to be able to post images and things in the discussion thread.
- Mark
I hate to hit and run, but 90% of the people I follow I follow because I've seen them say interesting things and participate here.
- Steve Lowe
Steve, why is that Hit and Run?
- Jason Nunnelley
Is the FriendFeed back-end on Scala already? :)
- The Pageman
Jason, I'd like that and think the rural, the elder, the poor, the disabled, and much of africa who get better high speed net access will as well. As fast as these platforms are growing the users have to help out with the concierge desk. I've got questions and I'm still newb enuff to answer some with empathy
- Lane Rapp
If more people used clients that don't require following people to group them and/or see their tweets, the followers would n't be half as relevant on Twitter. I converse with lots of people I don't follow on facebook and FriendFeed.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Robert, the bottom line is people follow people for three reasons: content, content and content. The question is what difference does the SUL on Twitter make if most people just ignore boring content and move on?
- Jason Nunnelley
My mom joined Twitter today (that tells me its not Myspace, so much for my original thesis) but she didn't necessarily want to follow this suggested list, but from talking to her, it sounded like it was "fostered" onto her. I don't know what the steps look like since I joined a long time ago, but it sounds like for a newbie you are pretty much going to auto follow these people
- Stephen Pickering
I have more friends/followers on Friendfeed than I do on any other site
- Joe Dawson
the followers picked up from SUL are folks who are getting started -- it's like the old PCH magazine subs: renewals and engagemt were horrible but the audience inflation paid back in ad dollars. The social web is about "finding" an audience, just like the old days before you could use web clout to open the spigot and drive a massive audience. The SUL is a Web 1.0 artifact, like cutting...
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- Dan McCarthy
from BuddyFeed
Robert, et al: There was some important information shared in this thread yesterday, and I've put a lot of it together in a post for Twittercism, focusing on comparisons between the follower counts of Tim, Robert and iJustine. Appreciate your thoughts. Cheers. http://twittercism.com/suggest...
- Shéa Bennett
isn't 10000 followers on friendfeed just about the same percentage of the community as 600000 on twitter?
- Iphigenie
Stephen, you have to unclick the people you don't want to follow in the SUL.
- Jason Nunnelley
Great thread. Thanks Robert.
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
Thanks for sharing - great info Robert!!
- Laurie DesAutels
If what you say is true, then the terms need to be changed. As for them not transferring to any other social network, why is that even necessary? There's a great study out there that states 90% of your network will be lurkers anyway. You'll never know that they exist, however, it's still comforting to know they're there....
- Mike Shields
Robert: Now that you mention it, I will tell them about FriendFeed.
- Beth Kanter
Robert: I hate it when there's a "food fight" over ideas. Please remember that Twitter is still trying to find a business model. These $100,000 gifts are basically Calacanis "Bucks"... you can't actually buy anything with them except the promise of VC investment. VC investment is simply mortgaging your future.
- davem51
Was it wrong with Radio from UserLand had some suggested feeds to follow? No. It was a smart business idea and Adam Curry invested to get more readers. Smart attempt to save Userland from failing.
- davem51
I met Tim O'Reilly in 1990 working the O'Reilly booth at Usenix. It was one of the most interesting conversations I have ever had at a conference... Tim knows how to present idea but more importantly he has the biggest ears in tech. He's got an Open Source Mind.
- davem51
am i on twittr?
- j edmonds
Live now, FLOSS Weekly 73 with Tim O'Reilly, Jono Bacon, and Randal Schwartz. http://live.twit.tv. Discuss here...
Dr. Apps, Zehnchu, Daniel Rowley and 20 other people liked this
Tim should spend a week on FriendFeed. He can always go back.
- Ken Sheppardson
I liked this
- ramiles
Yup FF is a much cooler place than Twitter
- Jeff
I wonder if there is a Friendfeed app for the Itouch?
- ramiles
You can point it at http://friendfeed.com/iphone. Don't know about apps.
- Ken Sheppardson
Welcome, Tim :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
So - now we all move to here ;)
- LPH™ and his dog P™
What was that book that Leo mentioned?
- Troy McConaghy
Wow, FriendFeed users sure do have to convince themselves that they're better than Twitter.
- Stuart Jones
Thanks Ken
- ramiles
click the timestamp twice
- Ken Sheppardson
you get a pop-up the second time you click on the timestamp
- Ken Sheppardson
Hello, Tim.
- Matthew Gifford
Hi everyone. And hi Tim!
- Vlad Bobleanta
Hey everyone
- Seth Hoogeboom
from IM
Hello!
- Benjamin Taylor
Hey all!
- Simon Oliver
Yes there is a app
- ramiles
there is a few of them
- ramiles
about 4 2 free
- ramiles
how do I open a new page so the comment box stays at the bottom ?
- John Hillestad
dbl click time stamp and resize window?
- Thomas Perez
^-- use that link
- Ken Sheppardson
John -- click on the time stamp
- LPH™ and his dog P™
The book Leo mentioned was Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin
- Tim O'Reilly
How did you do that Ken ? is there something I am supposed to click ?
- John Hillestad
click the timestamp twice or add ?embed=1 after the url
- Vlad Bobleanta
I really miss FF support in Tweetie for the iPhone! :)
- Carl-Fredrik
ok thanks
- John Hillestad
Carl---- BuddyFeed, Amigo, or AlertThingy are decent on the iPhone
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I see carl
- ramiles
I just bought AlretThingy
- ramiles
Whadya know... http://friendfeed.com/iphone looks just fine on the Pre too. Cool.
- Ken Sheppardson
I've got my pink Camel book sitting on the shelf next to me. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
ramiles - good purchase --
- LPH™ and his dog P™
you got the
- ramiles
PRE
- ramiles
Thanks LPH
- ramiles
I remember seeing Dale Dougherty give a presentation RE GNN and The Whole Internet back in 1992...
- Ken Sheppardson
Since I started watching TSS i have has a crush on Sarah Lane
- ramiles
Hello everyone. :P
- Kate Phillips
I have used linux in verious distros
- ramiles
hard to choose which one is best
- ramiles
ramiles - yes -- my only green desktop is CherryPal - a great little device with Ubuntu. http://cherrypal.com/
- LPH™ and his dog P™
It's the difference between wanting "enough" and wanting to take over the world.
- Ken Sheppardson
Tim, can you discuss the importance of Richard Stallman? The crazy-ass zealot is important to any movement. Doesn't he act as our conscious?
- Scott Smith
"Money is a hack that got out of control" - nice one
- Keith Harrison
It isn't a word ;)
- LPH™ and his dog P™
i wish i could keep the pop out window ontop of my screen
- ramiles
Love oreilly's books.
- Cody C
"In the July 1999 issue of Print magazine, Darcy DiNucci wrote a piece titled “Fragmented Future” about Web 2.0 vs. Web 1.0..." -- http://www.cole20.com/who-coi...
- Ken Sheppardson
the oreilly books are a great source
- ramiles
Can Tim discuss the importance of Head First books on technical documents/books?
- Scott Smith
the first O'Reilly book I bought was The Whole Internet User’s Guide - happy days
- Keith Harrison
i think thats the book i bought as well when i first got on the internet
- ramiles
David Stutz -- http://www.synthesist.net/writing...
- Ken Sheppardson
LEO your the BOMB
- ramiles
What about Leo's the BOMB?
- Dekz
Divya - Agreed
- Najeeb Mirza
yep
- ramiles
Why Google is Offering 411 Service - http://radar.oreilly.com/2007...
- Ken Sheppardson
Yeah wow Tim seems very knowledgeable.
- Kate Phillips
"In short, I'm speculating that the 1-800-GOOG-411 service is designed to harvest voice data to build Google's own speech database, rather than licensing from Nuance or another player."
- Ken Sheppardson
Very insightful man
- Cody C
He's a visionary
- Cody C
my dad has that in his Cell phone already
- ramiles
Tim: How do you avoid "group think" in this type of scenario? Just because everyone "believes" something is a certain way .. doesn't mean that it is ...
- LPH™ and his dog P™
wikipedia FTL?
- Thomas Perez
lph we all need to think about this
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Thomas: I was going to ask about Wikis too
- LPH™ and his dog P™
see it all the time on wikipedia.... published facts vs commonly accepted "facts"
- Thomas Perez
I think that Wikipedia is always checked for true facts
- ramiles
LOL @ ramiles
- Dekz
......
- Thomas Perez
the problem is in peoples' definition of "true"
- Thomas Perez
be great to hear tim's view on google wave and where that is heading?
- Simon Oliver
I caught some of this live, will definately download and listen when it's posted.
- Michael Koby
from BuddyFeed
Thats what I was thinking.
- Kate Phillips
Dakz thats a true fact
- ramiles
There's a difference between folks complaining about the fact that services don't give away what they have and not being open to letting anyone pay a fair fee to access it. There's no published process for me to pay for Twitter API (firehose) access right now, for example.
- Ken Sheppardson
"Open" doesn't necessarily have to mean "free"
- Ken Sheppardson
i use twitterfon for my itouch
- ramiles
a great twitter app for my touch
- ramiles
We just need a level playing field.
- Ken Sheppardson
Speaking of land grabs... we have the Facebook land grab coming up Friday.
- Ken Sheppardson
how many here use facebook and twitter and myspace
- ramiles
Yep Facebook one will be big
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I use all 3
- Kate Phillips
yeah....
- Thomas Perez
i use twitter mostly, a little facebook. no myspace ever
- Thomas Perez
Yes, integration of new social services is going to be important
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I use all 3
- ramiles
FriendFeed gets it.
- Ken Sheppardson
i follow so many people
- ramiles
I just learned about friendfeed today
- ramiles
Welcome, Ramiles!
- Ken Sheppardson
ramiles - you came to the right place
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I just set out today to learn a bit more about friendfeed but i've have an account for a while.
- Kate Phillips
Kate - why a private feed on a social service?
- LPH™ and his dog P™
thanks Ken and LPH
- ramiles
Ugh, My FriendFeed app keeps crashing on my Itouch
- ramiles
Yep - my handle is taken on Tumblr -- but unused :p Hopefully I can convince Tumblr to let me have it --
- LPH™ and his dog P™
What do you mean? Private feed?
- Kate Phillips
Kate: When we put a cursor over your name it says u have a private feed
- ramiles
I wish Google Profiles was used on FriendFeed
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Tim's really amazing!
- Lyderic
LPH: It's the default for new users. Kate: If you go to the "settings" link in the upper right under your image, there's a checkbox for "private feed". You should uncheck that so everybody can see what you post :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Actually, I have my FF badge on my twitter account ;)
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I wonder if its becuase my itouch is jail broken
- ramiles
I actually don't know why It says that. hehe
- Kate Phillips
Ken - what is the default for new users? I missed something in your thoughts.
- LPH™ and his dog P™
LPH: Private feed is the default. I've noticed it when creating a couple of temp accounts.
- Ken Sheppardson
Thanks did that fix it?
- Kate Phillips
OH -- didn't know that.
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Thanks I had no idea. ^^
- Kate Phillips
Divya -- I changed my personal blog to simply include the 'activity stream'
- LPH™ and his dog P™
There've been a number of articles lately talking about how many folks actually "lurk" on Twitter etc.
- Ken Sheppardson
Twitter is more than a blog more communtative
- ramiles
i heard that the ratio was 80% consumer 20% creator
- Chris Heath
I'm not a lurker - but a wall-flower ;)
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I'm a lurker
- John Matulich
it sounds like Google Wave is the next big thing.
- Michael Sanchez
SFGATE.com (SF Chronicle website) now has a twitterfeed on the front page as of..... this week sometime. following other news outlet twitter accts
- Thomas Perez
UGH this is aggervating my App keeps crashing out to main screen
- ramiles
I started "blogging" in 1996 -- so it was just a stream of activity - so it is based on the definition. The word blog didn't even exist in the 90s ..
- LPH™ and his dog P™
on my touch
- ramiles
i had a wordpress blog
- ramiles
used to blog on yahoo when they had a blog
- ramiles
I agree with you Michael. I saw video of the google wave and it blew me away.
- Kate Phillips
google HUD in your car would be something
- Thomas Perez
what is google wave
- ramiles
*ANY* GPS HUD would be slick...
- Ken Sheppardson
how about a global social network message 'recall" app
- Benjamin Taylor
google it
- Thomas Perez
Google wave brings all the things there talking about together
- Michael Sanchez
Thomas -- and many "news" stations on t.v. are simply quoting twitters .. funny really
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I learned the multiplecation tables in elementary school for example through 12x12. Thats given way to the calculator widget on my igoogle page. @Ramiles An example of something lost and something gained.
- John Brazel
but imagine GPS.... plus all the info google maps provides (photos, reviews, MyTracks) plus everything else, gmail, twitter, facebook (viewing friends realtime location displayed on HUD)
- Thomas Perez
I wonder how far the LCD/LED technology is from being able to add a layer on the inside of your windshield...
- Ken Sheppardson
or strangers for that matter. interaction with other drivers beyond a few scowls and "gestures"
- Thomas Perez
any thoughts on what Google is doing with Wave
- wingman
John whats that have to do with anything
- ramiles
Leo: Has Tim tried out Wave?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, wouldn't OLED be able to do that? just another layer in the windshield
- Chris Heath
Leo put Kim Commando to shame
- ramiles
komando
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Actually, I don't really get Google Wave :(
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Leo puts Kim Komando to shame
- ramiles
thanks for the correction ken
- ramiles
who?
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Ihnatko prints google maps directions mirrored backwards and puts the paper on the dash. Analog hud.
- Joel Zehring
Great job Tim ! Very thought-provoking
- LPH™ and his dog P™
ya it was a good convo. Tim
- Michael Sanchez
Nice job... HAH
- Ken Sheppardson
Good joke Leo
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Awesome show LEO
- ramiles
good show LEO
- Michael Sanchez
Would love to be a guest on Leos show
- ramiles
Really good shoe, thanks Leo et al.
- John Brazel
firefly, whats that :-p
- Thomas Perez
glad i could catch the end of this show, what a great interview
- Chris Heath
Firefly was a really good TV show
- Kate Phillips
awesome show
- ramiles
I have the complete show
- ramiles
Firefly lead to serinity the movie
- ramiles
was written by Josh Weldon who did buffy the vampire slayer
- ramiles
I own the series
- ramiles
Are we going to get a new thread Leo? LOL
- LPH™ and his dog P™
sorry, :-p = sarcasm, but i'm sure someone didnt know. did he just hint at a firefly videogame?
- Thomas Perez
Joss Whedon*
- Thomas Perez
Thanks for the correction Thomas
- ramiles
but i dont like to be publicly be corrected
- ramiles
make sure your facts are true?
- Thomas Perez
they are
- ramiles
how many here have seen the series
- ramiles
I saw the series and the movie loved them both
- Kate Phillips
never heard of it before today
- Michael Sanchez
highly recomend it
- Thomas Perez
Ditto
- ramiles
is it on Hulu?
- Michael Sanchez
the guy thats in Castle was in it
- ramiles
sure is
- Thomas Perez
Yes I posted a link earlier
- Kate Phillips
there is even a baldwin brother in the show
- ramiles
one you probably never heard of
- ramiles
Its has all 14 episodes avaliable.
- Kate Phillips
cool thanks i'll have to check it out
- Michael Sanchez
I would reccomnd to buy the series its only like $50
- ramiles
hes not one of the baldwins, but his last name is baldwin......
- Thomas Perez
Thomas I think he is
- ramiles
check wikipedia :-)
- Thomas Perez
hahahahaha
- Dekz
wiki isnt always true
- ramiles
good times, leo
- Thomas Perez
"I think that Wikipedia is always checked for true facts - ramiles"
- Dekz
thanks Dekz ;-)
- Thomas Perez
I wonder when leo is going to take advantage of all of the different angles you can have going at once with bitgravity?
- Kate Phillips
I know I would like to see it like how they did on Digg Nation
- Michael Sanchez
Yeah that would be wonderful.
- Kate Phillips
where all the cams are live and you get to pick what you wanna watch
- Michael Sanchez
Kate, you can't do the multiview live since leo would have to send each camera's feed out to bitgravity - the diggnation multiview was not done live
- Chris Heath
I saw one day they were talking about it. They were talking about talking with bitgravity to work out something for them.
- Kate Phillips
It was a while back when they were still on stickam.
- Kate Phillips
At least when stickam was on the main page.
- Kate Phillips
yeah it might be possible one day, but probably not
- Chris Heath
I remember TechTv used to have it where u could click on what cam u want to view like the studio cam or cubicle cams
- ramiles
Dekz leave me alone
- ramiles
thomas ur right he isnt
- ramiles
cant wait to see the game
- ramiles
i hope it follows the show
- ramiles
I hope they show or play some of the music or game
- Michael Sanchez
that would be nice
- ramiles
I hope its not just for the PS3 I hope they put it out for the PC as well
- ramiles
I doubt that.
- Michael Sanchez
Sony owns the game company that they are working for.
- Michael Sanchez
thats sucks
- ramiles
are they really
- ramiles
bringing back doll house
- ramiles
I'd pick watching Leo Laporte any day over network television. I have live.twit.tv streaming on my 42 inch plasma via a pc, who wouldn't enjoy that!
- Jim Lavin
jim your spoiled
- ramiles
but Plasma is out dated
- ramiles
you should replace it with a LCD TV
- ramiles
ya i run my Mac Mini on my 42 LCD TV
- Michael Sanchez
you have the new LCD tv Michale
- ramiles
Michael
- ramiles
ya
- Michael Sanchez
hehe I run my laptop upstairs to my 30" lcd when i head to bed so I have something to watch at night.
- Kate Phillips
CRT's still rule
- ramiles
I watch the Planet Green channel when i head to bed. a lot of good stuff on making your house green and off the grid
- Michael Sanchez
I have enough shows to watch that have been tivo'ed
- ramiles
Any of you play any videogames?
- Kate Phillips
i do kate
- ramiles
the TIVO is the wife's... lol
- Michael Sanchez
I still have the Xbox and PS2
- ramiles
havent upgraded yet
- ramiles
ya i play Gears 2 on xbox
- Michael Sanchez
and Killzone 2 on PS3
- Michael Sanchez
i do agree with spending 50 on games
- ramiles
think its absurd
- ramiles
MIchael how old r u
- ramiles
24
- Michael Sanchez
HAHAHAHAHAHA
- ramiles
between boxee, video games and work I tend to be entertained easily.
- Kate Phillips
I am 38
- ramiles
ramiles: I'm not spoiled, I'm just another gadget geek with a lot wire running all over the house.
- Jim Lavin
why is that funny o.O
- Thomas Perez
you got some years on me... lol
- Michael Sanchez
Jim your totally spoiled
- ramiles
yep but your married I am single and unemployed at the moment struggling
- ramiles
Jim I am the same way..
- Michael Sanchez
I used to work at intel and there's some really young people with some really nice gear at home lol.
- Kate Phillips
kate u married or single
- ramiles
ya i am 24 and i make over 100k a year as a Tech
- Michael Sanchez
where do u work Michael
- ramiles
I'm single. Not dating though.
- Kate Phillips
k
- ramiles
for a construction company. managing there network.
- Michael Sanchez
Wish I could make u kind of money
- ramiles
I am going for my BS in Network Security
- ramiles
What do you do for a living ramiles?
- Kate Phillips
in between jobs Kate
- ramiles
I do freelance web design and PC tech
- ramiles
good stuff i have my bachelor degree from ITT tech
- Michael Sanchez
Very cool ^^
- Kate Phillips
I am getting my from Colorado Tech
- ramiles
in Cisco networking
- Michael Sanchez
Michael where u from
- ramiles
CA
- Michael Sanchez
I do some freelance PC tech work on craigslist
- Kate Phillips
like 2 hours away from where leo is
- Michael Sanchez
you went here fro school cool
- ramiles
hows that kate
- ramiles
MIchael u ever met leo
- ramiles
Kate: do you make good money from craigslist?
- Michael Sanchez
finding jobs from craigslist is tough
- ramiles
Ramiles: no I haven't had the privilege.
- Michael Sanchez
Most jobs are really easy clearing up viruses. Stuff like that.
- Kate Phillips
i have talked to him on the Phone in the old TSS days I have also talked to Kevin
- ramiles
would of loved to talk to Sarah Lane
- ramiles
Kate: ya i ask because i do a lot of PC tech for the family on the side and i was thinking about putting something on craigslist for it
- Michael Sanchez
Post a number and people call. I usually charge by the hour on how long it took me to fix it. Generally i charge a lot less than an hour of say a best buy like 20 do an hour or an install of a new OS for cost of software and $50.
- Kate Phillips
I would do network setups
- ramiles
and troubleshoot
- ramiles
I am running Windows Home Servere here
- ramiles
Plus i help them with a lot more like suggesting opensource software which is what i really try to interest people in.
- Kate Phillips
kate where u from
- ramiles
I have installed a few routers as well.
- Kate Phillips
California. Sothern cali
- Kate Phillips
seems a lot of your are i Cali
- ramiles
I am in chicago
- ramiles
I was just in Sothern cali at Disneyland for last week
- Michael Sanchez
My Dad wants to open a business fixing PC's with me. Not sure when he really wants to do it though.
- Kate Phillips
i have done both disneys
- ramiles
I really want to see Disney World
- Kate Phillips
I havent made it to Disney World yet..
- Michael Sanchez
I want to do Universal and see the harry potter world
- ramiles
Its been a while since I've been to universal. I prefer the shows and shopping at Disney Land to the other crazy rides. :P
- Kate Phillips
Been to Universal but never seen harry potter world. but its been some years since i've been there
- Michael Sanchez
the Potter world is something new
- ramiles
Why I asked about the games earlier is I just pre-ordered the game "Aion"
- Kate Phillips
I am a first person shooter kind of guy.
- Michael Sanchez
I'm in the beta for Batlefield Heroes
- Kate Phillips
Love that game.
- Kate Phillips
oh wow how is it?
- Michael Sanchez
Its pretty nice the beta is down right now though.
- Kate Phillips
What is it it never heard of it
- ramiles
Been down almost a week.
- Kate Phillips
it looks cartoonish.
- Michael Sanchez
my friend just bought infamous
- ramiles
but good
- Michael Sanchez
mac support?
- Michael Sanchez
it dont look like it
- Michael Sanchez
Let me look and check on something see if there's anymore beta keys left.
- Kate Phillips
not really into the mmorpgs
- ramiles
Not sure if it has mac support
- Kate Phillips
the new Iphone blows the pre away
- ramiles
I know Curse.com is giving away keys
- Kate Phillips
Here's the site to get a key you just need to log in to get it no need to buy anything.
- Kate Phillips
kate ur into the mmorpgs
- ramiles
I play MMO's in just about all forms
- Kate Phillips
Play Guildwars a lot
- Kate Phillips
Love the PVP
- Kate Phillips
kate how old r u
- ramiles
:O
- Kate Phillips
lol im 30
- Kate Phillips
ur 8yrs shy of me
- ramiles
wow i feel young
- Michael Sanchez
no offense
- Michael Sanchez
no offense taken
- Kate Phillips
wow 10gig an hour
- ramiles
dang thats a lot
- Kate Phillips
mpeg2
- Chris Heath
i love my Mac
- Michael Sanchez
Here's the google wave video that wow'd me http://wave.google.com/
- Kate Phillips
or shall i say Mac's
- Michael Sanchez
WE LOVE YOU LEO!!!
- ramiles
Google Wave is the next BIG thing i think
- Michael Sanchez
Definatlly Email 2.0
- Kate Phillips
And so much more
- Kate Phillips
is that his wife?
- ramiles
no
- Kate Phillips
She works with leo
- Kate Phillips
i remember that episode
- ramiles
glad i bought the SET
- ramiles
it has a huge following
- ramiles
I love the theme song
- ramiles
its a combination of old and new technology
- ramiles
nd the language they speak is chinese
- ramiles
Have a good evening.
- Kate Phillips
See you guys later.
- Kate Phillips
later
- Michael Sanchez
later kate
- ramiles
wheres he going
- ramiles
hello
- ramiles
KOIT!
- Thomas Perez
i accidentally left my computer connected to live.twit.tv and was rewarded to find abbey interviewing leo!!!!! so awesome
- Thomas Perez
i'm sorry, abby*
- Thomas Perez
OMG I REMEMBER RUSH ON KNBR!!!!
- Thomas Perez
Dvorak started Leo's carer, I have to re-think my life, ha...
- Marc Bochy
This is fun watching Leo's daughter Abby argue about the time left for her recording session. lol
- rob friedman
from twhirl
She did good.....
- Marc Bochy
she did awesomely
- Thomas Perez
My SXSW goal: find people who are thinking big. Know anyone who is doing that? Tell me here:
Squid, paul mooney, Kol Tregaskes and 38 other people liked this
Yes...@jjsnyc will be at SXSW and we're doing some BIG things here...check out http://www.BIGOmaha.com
- Jeff Slobotski
I know a couple ;)
- Marcus Nelson
I just started a company, so I'm thinking big — will be good to see you at SXSW: last time I saw you was at SXSW 2005 and the time before that was at a conference you were running and I was speaking at in New Orleans in 2001 so it must be a 4-year thing :-)
- James Tauber
Robert.. I realize you have a job and a role. However, there is nothing bigger than getting the truth out about 9/11: http://billgiltner.blip.tv/journal...
- bill giltner
No one's thinking bigger than Uservoice - cheers Marcus Nelson - represent for Santa Cruz this year.
- Sol
Robert - can I suggest you look for people who not only are thinking big but are playing or want to play big!
- Krishna De
I'm thinking big about my new book Escape from Cubicle Nation -- it would be fun to connect at SXSW. More here: http://www.portfolioimprint.com/2009...
- Pamela Slim
Can't help but recall this quote "Go Big or Go Home!"
- JR
We're thinking BIG here in Aquila TV in Birmingham, England. We're also all about diversifying and collaborative work, because we know that this is where our industry is heading. I'm @melkins on Twitter and will be in Texas next week for SXSW.
- Mars Elkins
Even the thoughts are big in Texas. ;) How about: our work to accelerate the demise of the office building and the rise of the sentient city: http://bit.ly/ehUs
- Sean Savage
@respres & @billlubin have created Social Media Marketing Institute. I think that's got potential for strong growth as a training entity. Might be worth chatting with them. As to tech start-ups, @doverbey with @roost is worth watching. (www.roost.com)
- Paul Chaney
Most of them lived in XV century :) Romain Gary in XX
- Vitaly Pimenov
I'm thinking big...if, by big, you mean changing the world ;) I'm the founder of http://www.EpicChange.org & http://www.TweetsGiving.org & will be speaking on @jeffpulver 's "Social Media for Social Good" panel on 3/16 at Stubb's BBQ: http://pulverblog.pulver.com/archive.... Hope to see you there! (Funny, my first real step into the social media space was on @SamLawrence 's blog "Go Big Always" http://gobigalways.com/guest-p...) Hope to meet you at SXSW!
- Stacey Monk
Just chiming in to echo the Uservoice sentiments already expressed here. Go Santa Cruz!
- Nick
WE ARE! (www.turn2live.com) Come check us out at the Porter Novelli entrepreneur's lounge at Fogo on 3/13 and 3/14.
- Cliff
My son-in-law, Saul Griffith, is making the case that the entire economy needs to be turned towards sustainable energy. That's big think.... See http://blog.longnow.org/2009...
- Tim O'Reilly
Hi Robert, @TugglMatt here, founder of Tuggl.com (very beta!). Our goal is to create a competitive atmosphere around corporate responsibility, rewarding local businesses that are doing good by their customers and their community. By quantifying social responsibility and sending more customers to those businesses doing it the best, we can prove that doing good is good for business. Would love to tell you more about our venture and how we plan on changing local commerce and building better communities.
- Matt Buchanan
Have you ever interviewed Lee and Sachi LeFever of CommonCraft.com? They're big (explanatory) thinkers.
- Darren Barefoot
I hope you get a chance to see what we're up to at Minggl these days, I think you'd agree we are thinking big.
- Marcus Irven
These are all great ideas. We'll have many of them on the SXSW show on Ustream: http://www.ustream.tv/sxsw -- this is going to be a lot of fun, the channel is being done by some very creative people/musicians (Peter Himmelman, for instance) and you'll hear more about it later in the week.
- Robert Scoble
I'm developing a semantic social infrastructure for OpenID that interlocks the relationship graph and activity graph. Users control social identity and privacy for every situation, all while building and managing digital legacy. Our system turns every person, group, network and event into a portable domain that is semantically linked to all associated domains and semantic properties. Result: A social web that reflects our real lives. Would be happy to demo.
- Paul Daigle
Robert - Thanks for tweeting about UStream Studios - You know I'm excited and you know why. Look forward to seeing you there and watching the justSignal Tracker (right side of link Robert put up) fly.
- Brian Roy
Hi Tim. I agree with you about Saul. If you want to see him and many other really big thinkers speak, take a look at a conferece site I launched last night at http://i2i.xprize.org this is exactly what you are looking for Robert I'll bring you program at sxsw
- Mark Krynsky
I'll be launching a Blog/Internet site focused on QR Codes <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...>. Destined to be the next big wave in mobile marketing and mobile advertising. Just look to Japan to see the potential <http://www.japanmarketingnews.com/2007...>
- Roberto Ayala
You should check what the folks at Tarpipe http://tarpipe.com are doing. Big things in a technical way :)
- Ricardo Vidal
Does thinking about big (tall) beers count? If so, I'm a 30-minute video for ya - 2 minutes of best beers talk and just 28 minutes for you and Rocky to provide a bit of filler :)
- Patrick Jordan
You should check out @thepoint if you haven't yet. The founder and the CTO were there last year and are attending again.
- Tim Letscher
@Mark Krynsky - wow your http://i2i.xprize.org site looks awesome!! nice work!
- Susan Beebe
Jon: I'd love to meet you at SXSW, totally agree.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, indeed meet up with Jon. He can bring you up to speed with all things happening in and around Africa.
- Meryn Stol
I'm thinking big.
- Pete Barry
Pete: then I want to meet you. Where, when?
- Robert Scoble
Chris, Texas is definitely bigger than Canada :-P
- Jesse Stay
@juliegomoll is thinking big about the future of work over at LaunchPad Coworking
- Michael Funk
Whrrl will make a big splash with some big thinking. come to our party: http://www.facebook.com/home...
- Matty
I'm looking for people who are thinking big about work spaces, what will replace the cubicle, what the office environment will look like in a decade, how we'll be working and how that will impact offices (if we'll even have them). Help is appreciated.
- Chris Stevenson
Re: Spelling, Algebra, and When to Turn Off the Computer - http://millionchimpanzees.blogspot.com/2009...
"Not a problem at all."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Spelling, Algebra, and When to Turn Off the Computer - http://www.disqus.com/people...
"Not a problem at all."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Spelling, Algebra, and When to Turn Off the Computer - http://amillionchimpanzees.disqus.com/spellin...
"Not a problem at all."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Spelling, Algebra, and When to Turn Off the Computer - http://amillionchimpanzees.disqus.com/spellin...
"I think you missed the point of my "change happens" blog post, if you thought my reply was "just get used to it." In fact, I was writing about resilience in the face of change. And what you're talking about - stepping away from the computer when needed - is one way to become more resilient in the face of change. We should always be wary of becoming too dependent on our tools. FWIW, I also published the book you recommend at the end, Steve Talbott's Devices of the Soul, as well as his much earlier The Future Does Not Compute. So I really don't know why you thought that my "change happens" piece was contrary to your thinking."
- Tim O'Reilly
Re: Spelling, Algebra, and When to Turn Off the Computer - http://millionchimpanzees.blogspot.com/2009...
"I think you missed the point of my "change happens" blog post, if you thought my reply was "just get used to it." In fact, I was writing about resilience in the face of change. And what you're talking about - stepping away from the computer when needed - is one way to become more resilient in the face of change. We should always be wary of becoming too dependent on our tools. FWIW, I also published the book you recommend at the end, Steve Talbott's Devices of the Soul, as well as his much earlier The Future Does Not Compute. So I really don't know why you thought that my "change happens" piece was contrary to your thinking."
- Tim O'Reilly
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