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The ground is shifting.

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Hannity turned against Syrian "rebels". Tea party leaders deeply suspicious of surveillance state. - Danaa

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But Josh Marshall of TPM, staunch liberal that he is - smeared Snowden as best he could. - Danaa

And John Oliver of daily news decided to put up a hit piece on Christians (masquerading as a spoof) just yesterday. Wonder which writers concocted this and who decided to air this at this time. someone who thinks it's time to go back to gay marriage discussions? - Danaa

the liberal sphere is all agog, pulling this way and that. may be there is some worry that green shoots may pop up among the conservative flora? time to remind the sheeple that it's frozen tundra? - Danaa

Danaa -- I've been noticing these strange twists and turns all across the political spectrum -- fun stuff, eh? :) Josh Marshall -- he's never been a strong mind. Phil can run circles around him -- and Phil actually has a backbone. - Sean McBride

To the extent that Tea Party types care about civil liberties, let them now thunder and rent the GOP asunder. - Sean McBride

I imagine the Adelson republican wing of the Jewish/Jewish state lobby wants to sink Obama and get a republican elected instead of Shillary. Syria fiasco for Obama could accomplish this, especially if repubs/neocons run an 'isolationist' like Rand Paul. But why the story of Bill Clinton pushing Obama into Syria? Supporting al queda cannibals in Syria on deja vu fake wmd premise doesnt... more... - pepsi

Daily Kos has gone all schizophrenic too. Not that i hold the site in terribly high esteem but it's a good bellwether of certain kinds of activism on the left. Moulistas himself has gone on record against the secrecy of the surveillance state (as well he should - he is fer sure on their little list). But the front page and recommended diary lists display, shall we say, a little bi-polar disorder? - Danaa

Yes Sean. I am definitely enjoying the way this is playing out (though the "joy' feels strangely unjoyful...). Former adversaries suddenly embracing and bossom buddies spitting foul verbiage at each other. To me, one thing that Snowden has accomplished - all in a stroke - is to stick a fork in the carefully arranged establishment stable of pre-ordained, iron-clad groupings. Movement is good. - Danaa

Bill Clinton urging Obama into Syria goes directly against Hillary's best interests. Something very strange is happening. David Geffen said in 2008 that Bill Clinton was still sexually promiscuous outside of his marraige. Odds are that Bill is compromised and blackmailable. I recall he used to jet around with billionaire playboy Ron Perelman. Honeytrapped? News of Billy's willy would... more... - pepsi

pepsi, for what it's worth - during Obama's second inauguration speech, I was suddenly overcome with a strange feeling that he would have rather not been there. kind of like a little "do i really want to be here" inkling. Even more strangely, I also felt a strong sense of apprehension coming from Michelle's direction - as beaming as she appeared, I felt fear - from both of them/ a... more... - Danaa

Intervening in Syria would be consistent with Hillary Clinton's threat during the 2008 presidential campaign to "totally obliterate" Iran -- she has a history of channeling neocon warmongering. She is a bit of a brute -- a stevedore in a dress. Both Clintons are in deep financial and political debt to the Israel lobby -- it holds a huge vault of chits. And they are probably thinking about Chelsea's political future. - Sean McBride

Regarding disruption and movement -- maybe something good will shake loose. We shall see. - Sean McBride

At this point is Bill Clinton really blackmailable? He took everything they could throw at him during his second term and survived handily -- even came up roses. - Sean McBride

danaa, even if obama is a soulless, narcisistic, cia bred evil genius, which i believe, he still wants to be respected, if not adored like all narcisists. He still wanted a good legacy like Clinton, with Convention cheers for the next 30 years, best seller books, and six figure speaking fees. Even the most robotic obamabots can't rationalize away supporting cannibals in Syria on... more... - pepsi

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Sean McBride

Cory Booker's Rabbis - The Daily Beast - http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...

June 13 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

"One day in the mid-1990s, when I was a student at Oxford, I went to the L’Chaim Society to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Purim. L’Chaim was the brainchild of an already flamboyant but not yet famous Chabad (or Lubavitch) rabbi named Shmuley Boteach. I remember a mass of drunk people dancing raucously, which wasn’t surprising given the ecstatic nature of Purim celebrations, especially at Chabad. What was surprising was that at the center of the debauchery stood an athletic, handsome African American Christian named Cory Booker. He was the L’Chaim Society’s president." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

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"If that’s not unusual enough, when Booker left Oxford for Yale Law School, he founded a Jewish society there too, now called Eliezer. This time his primary partner was a Chabad rabbi named Shmully Hecht. Twenty years later, Booker remains close to both Shmuley and Shmully. Boteach has taken him to pray at the last Lubavitcher Rebbe’s grave. Booker says he studies Torah weekly with each... more... - Sean McBride

"But if Boteach and Hecht are unusually universalistic Chabad rabbis, they’re still Chabad rabbis. (Boteach, although forced to resign from his position as Chabad’s emissary to Oxford in the 1990s, still acknowledges his “incontrovertible Chabad identity.”) And the values of Chabad rest uneasily alongside the values publicly espoused in the Booker-Boteach-Hecht show. Theologically,... more... - Sean McBride

Booker is a made man, like diamond front man Cecil Rhodes. From wiki: 'the Rhodes Scholarships are administered and awarded by the Rhodes Trust, which was established in 1902 under the terms and conditions of the will of Cecil John Rhodes, and funded by his estate under the administration of Nathan Rothschild.' - pepsi

more scenes from the meritafia. This is Boteach's nephew: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic... - pepsi

zuck's 100million donation to Newark schools makes more sense now. Did boteach's son ever get into West Point? - pepsi

Remember when Phil W spent the night with Schmully and tokyobk (ben karp)? http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - pepsi

'A year ago I met a scholar named Ben Karp who asked if I would come for Sabbath dinner at a Jewish society at Yale called Eliezer. Karp co-founded Eliezer 15 years ago. It is a members-only society that takes Jewishness and Judaism seriously, he said. We started it so that people like you can talk about their Jewish experience.' ... Booker and Schmully were also founding members. Not sure about Schmuley. - pepsi

link, wiki, eliezer society http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - pepsi

Guests, speakers, and scholars in residence at Eliezer (both affiliated and unaffiliated with Yale) have included Alan Dershowitz, Aharon Barak, Guido Calabresi, Jerry Springer, Will Eisner, Donna Dubinsky, Senator Joe Lieberman, Elizabeth Wurtzel, Reuben Greenberg, Larry Coben, David Hazony, Eric Alterman, Charles Grodin, Elliott Gould, Leslie Epstein, and Philip Weiss. The... more... - pepsi

'A secret society hiding in plain sight' http://www.time.com/time... - pepsi

'About 10 students are nominated and tapped annually by the members and founders Hecht, who owns one of the largest real estate groups in Connecticut, and Karp, who is now teaching African-American history and writing a book on W.E.B. Du Bois. The conversation to expand Eliezer to Harvard, Columbia and Princeton has begun — then onward to the rest of the country. (See pictures of... more... - pepsi

Interesting collection of facts. Are you sure that tokyobk is Ben Karp? - Sean McBride

yeah, it might be in the comment thread of that article, though there is 400 comments to sift through. Tokyobk was defending ben karp, schmully, and the society, and one commenter put it together that ben karp was in japan, and confronted tokyobk. He confessed, lol. - pepsi

booker and wall street: http://www.guardiannews.com/comment... - pepsi

Sean, I saw that confession too. Ben Karp basically came out as tokyobk and everyone at MW has been assuming that's who he is ever since. - Danaa

'Remember that $100m donation to the Newark schools from Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, promoted with its very own Oprah episode? The cash didn't go into the Newark school system; it's controlled by a non-governmental fund, with Booker on the board, and has been so unaccountable that the ACLU had to sue the city to learn what was going on. (Booker's office first denied that the... more... - pepsi

Danaa -- I remember that discussion now -- I think I participated in it. :) - Sean McBride

pepsi -- one presumes that you think there is nothing instrinsically nefarious about founding or belonging to a society like this? All religious and ethnic groups in America have founded similar organizations. Or perhaps not? I haven't formed any opinions about Eliezer because I don't know much about it. - Sean McBride

Is anyone in this society as powerful as James Clapper or Keith Alexander, who have featured prominently in the news lately concerning the PRISM controversy? - Sean McBride

To the extent that Eliezer might be serving as an arm of the Israel lobby, it is of course fair game for criticism regarding whatever policies it is advocating. - Sean McBride

Regarding Chabad ideology -- it seems to have a distinctly racist bent. But of course Eliezer can always point to members like Cory Booker or Ben Karp to rebut any claims of racism in its ranks. - Sean McBride

Another comment for you Sean. I did not want to interject on your tiffy with American, since I don't like to weigh in on what is and isn't anti-semitic and/or for whom and when. merely engaging in that type of conversation is handing over the batton to the other side. now, for me, having come from an israeli background, and presumed to be jewish (if secular israelis can even be called... more... - Danaa

# Eliezer 1. founders=Ben Karp, Cory Booker, Michael Alexander, Shmully Hecht 2. founding year=1996 3. guests=Aharon Barak, Alan Dershowitz, Charles Grodin, Ehud Barak, Elliott Gould, Eric Alterman, Guido Calabresi, Jerry Springer, Joe Lieberman, Mona Eltahawy, Phil Weiss, Tarek Fatah - Sean McBride

Danaa -- 1. I want to be clear that I didn't accuse American of antisemitism, if there is any confusion on that point for anyone (and he is certainly welcome to post and debate here). 2. I know a fair amount about Chabad, and agree with you that it is a messianic cult (to an extreme). 3. Regarding Chabad's possible skills at manipulating members of non-Jewish minorities, that may well... more... - Sean McBride

Regarding antisemitism: as a matter not simply of basic truth-seeking, decency and morality, but more importantly of pragmatic politics, I think it is important to take care to expunge any hints of antisemitic rhetoric from the critique of Israel and Zionism. Those are my views, but I don't expect anyone else to agree with me. We all have our own views on that issue. Defining what is... more... - Sean McBride

sean, you might have skimmed over at least one of my above comments: "Eliezer is much more than a club at Yale," says Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, who is writing the foreword to a book about the society. "It is a global network of activists who care deeply about the Jewish people and about the world."' ... Nefarious? Lol. - pepsi

How would that be any more nefarious than the global activities conducted by similar groups for Roman Catholics, Muslims, etc.? - Sean McBride

pepsi -- I am guessing that Skull and Bones is still much more powerful than Eliezer. - Sean McBride

sean, you also missed the link above to the Time article, 'A secret society in plain sight' that compares the two. What's interesting is that S+B has long been perhaps the foremost quiet promoter of the Rhodes/Rothschild/CFR Internationalist one world government masonic secret society movement. GHWB was offered a Rhodes Scholarship while a senior at Yale as a S+Bonesman. Eliezer seems... more... - pepsi

pepsi -- you have a tendency to make important factual errors that undermine the credibility of your claims and arguments. Elliott Abrams isn't a member of Skull and Bones. - Sean McBride

Skull and Bones is overwhelmingly a WASP institution. Check out n(link; The 15 Most Powerful Members Of 'Skull And Bones http://www.businessinsider.com/skull-a...) - Sean McBride

Have fun: # sort current Skull and Bones members by * 1. affiliations 2. cities of residence 3. corporate affiliations 4. employers 5. ethnicity 6. expertise on * 7. fame 8. funding of * 9. government affiliations 10. highest security clearance 11. influence on * 12. intelligence affiliations 13. interest in * 14. IQ 15. knowledge of * 16. last name 17. number of links to * 18. number... more... - Sean McBride

oops, wrong PNACer. Robert Kagan was S+B. Elliot Abrams bio still adds credence to my argument: 'While serving for Reagan[aka HWB, S+Bones], Abrams, Paul Wolfowitz, and retired U.S. Marine Corps officer Oliver North were integral players in the Iran- Contra affair.[8] He is currently a senior fellow for Middle Eastern studies at the Council on Foreign Relations.' ... A full updated list... more... - pepsi

What is your main argument? Big picturewise? - Sean McBride

Other members: Dana Milbank, Eddie Lampert, John Kerry. - Sean McBride

Skull and Bones members who are also CFR members: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/cfrall1... - Sean McBride

Just laying out some of the background on the booker schmuley schmully relationship. Remaining questions for me: what was aipac-er Beinart doing at Oxford, and how did Boteach end up as the school rabbi. Mysterious guy and family. - pepsi

How did George W. Bush end up as president of the United States? - Sean McBride

'How did George W. Bush end up as president of the United States? - Sean McBride' ... A Clean Break from the pre-9/11 mentality? - pepsi

Family and social connections at the highest levels of the American power elite. - Sean McBride

c; Skull and Bones member+Washington Post writer; Dana Milbank, Robert Kagan {c; *category1+*category2; *instance+} - Sean McBride

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

Ben Ami on ethnocentrism, the blown Arab Peace initiative, and the ‘war of races’ - http://mondoweiss.net/2013...

May 28 from Mondoweiss - Comment - Like - Share

Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami takes Israel's problem back to a Jewish "myth" or "meta-narrative," about the "eternal, unforgiving hostility of a Gentile world."

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I have been arguing all along that this is the root problem -- one must deconstruct and reform the underlying xenophobic ideology before making any meaningful political changes. But that conversation tends to provoke anxiety and consternation on Mondoweiss. - Sean McBride

''I have been arguing all along that this is the root problem ..Sean'' So have I cause it's true. And I do think there were things in Judaism and /or the Tribe attitudes from the beginning that made it easy for Zionism to take hold.....the chosenness, the special suffering and innocence and enemies meme.....easy to convert into a cult. - American

But I don't think they gonna change.....even in the anti zionist you can still see the myths of eternal christian anti semitism, the eternal anti semitism of gentles, the eternal guilt and blame on the 'entire world for Jew hatred and all Jewish problems. It really is a 'Projection' of their own hostility toward the non Jewish world...centuries and centuries of it....I don't know how it would ever be undone. - American

Judaism was founded on the myth of Moses and the hebrew slaves who conveniently built the most impressive man made marvels in the world, the great pyramids. Impartial historians have dismissed this as impossible, off by a couple thousand years or something. I'm still awaiting verification on the parting of the red sea, lol. So it's a victimology religion founded on imaginary... more... - pepsi

I will say this for Mondoweiss: they permitted me to try to pursue this conversation at length, with few obstacles or interruptions. But it was impossible to find interlocutors on the Jewish side to move the conversation forward. Many progressive Jews are in denial on this subject. - Sean McBride

Danaa came closest, or even moved the conversation forward. She deserves credit for sure. She can speak for herself, but it would appear that as the conversation continued in its logical direction to some of its logical conclusions, perhaps the conversation got ahead of her comfort zone, at least for a moment. I hope she continues to participate here, but I can understand and would... more... - pepsi

''As a bad analogy, siblings might not have a problem admitting to themselves that their parent is an alcoholic gambling addict, but if somebody outside the family mentioned it, the siblings would be like 'who the fuck are you to talk about that?' But any survival instinct tells us it's an important conversation for the neighbors to have. - pepsi''.......You're right. And also right... more... - American

2000 year old alcoholics don't stay drunk that long without silencing an intervention or two, and enablers crucially looked the other way for the 'good' of the family. Understandable in older times, but not after 150 years of gloating stewardship of The War On Drunkenness (supremacy/chauvenism/nationalism). Everybody knows Officer Breathalizer's been drinking, but nobody wants to get arrested on fake charges. (To make a bad analogy way worse). - pepsi

Danaa has an amazingly open, curious and fearless mind. - Sean McBride

pepsi, I don't think the conversation "got ahead of her [Danaa's] comfort zone." She swings as good as she gets, and came out swinging when everyone was down on Gilad Atzmon and supporters were keeping quiet. - MRW_8

'came out swinging when everyone was down on Gilad Atzmon and supporters were keeping quiet. - MRW_8' - Much to her credit. - pepsi

Does anyone think that Paul Eisen and Gilad Atzmon have nearly identical views? What then is the problem with quoting the latter here but not the former? - JustTheFactsPlease

I don't have a problem with Atzmon and Eisen, but I haven't read much of Eisen. What I've read by both of them is well within the parameters of controversial but reasonable discourse. It is not unreasonable to question the foundations of ethnic nationalist ideologies and thinking. - Sean McBride

pepsi, it's not my "comfort zone" that's got the boundaries; it's my time bins that are a bit limited. For the record, my occasional seemingly "premature" disappearances are entirely attributable to scarcity of temporal rather than moral resources. In fact, i am currently in the midst of little forced hiatus right now (hopefully short) due to that time well having runneth a bit dry.... more... - Danaa

JTFP - It is not exactly fair to bring in Atzmon in tandem with Eisen, as if they are one and the same. Gilad himself would fiecely deny having "identical" views to anyone. Also, like Sean, I profess to have read little of Eisen. If you want to bring him in - connecting him to Gilad - the burden is on you to show what those identities are. I do know Eisen is considered "controversial'... more... - Danaa

Danaa, http://vimeo.com/37403450 - JustTheFactsPlease

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

Chelsea Clinton’s multifaith initiative - http://mondoweiss.net/2013...

May 23 from Mondoweiss - Comment - Like - Share

While Biden panders to a Jewish audience, Chelsea Clinton undertakes a "multifaith" initiative

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Wasn't there some recent talk of Chelsea Clinton having a future in politics? No thanks. I'm about as interested in a Clinton Dynasty as I am in a Bush dynasty. I'd also like to see Rand Paul sent packing. How long before the Obama children decide they have something to offer the rest of us? Would it be too much to ask that the people behind the figureheads be sent packing too? - Todd

Hereditary oligarchies undermine democracy -- but are consistent with neoconservative banana republics. - Sean McBride

I'm not sure what a neoconservative banana republic is. Otherwise, I agree with your statement. - Todd

# Neoconservative banana republics: traits 1. bribery and blackmail 2. crony capitalism 3. death squads 4. ethno-religious nationalism 5. family dynasties 6. fascism 7. hereditary oligarchies 8. mainstream media monopolies 9. massive corruption 10. military dictatorship 11. neo-feudalism 12. nepotism 13. organized crime 14. permanent war 15. police state culture 16. radical wealth... more... - Sean McBride

mystic transnational hereditary totali-kleptafia:) - pepsi

hysterical hedge-fundamentalist hegemonopolists. - pepsi

The neocons (and their neolib allies) have substantially succeeded in turning the United States into a banana republic -- their main entry wedge: the Global War on Terror, which has been used to justify the dismantling of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. - Sean McBride

Usually when the topic of the U.S. being turned to a banana republic starts up, immigration is to blame. I've never heard the neocons blamed for turning the nation into a banana republic. I think it's obvious that the U.S. is on a definite downward spiral, and the neocons certainly have a load of blame to shoulder. Who do you consider to be the neocons' neolib allies, and what are they doing? - Todd

Todd: n(link; Harvard Mafia, Andrei Shleifer and the Economic Rape of Russia http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptic...) - Sean McBride

book; AUTHOR Janine R. Wedel TITLE Shadow Elite: How the World's New Power Brokers Undermine Democracy, Government, and the Free Market DATE 2009 PUBLISHER Basic Books AMAZON http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-... - Sean McBride

Topic: methods for turning the entire world into a global plantation or global banana republic. - Sean McBride

Leading method: control of the international financial system. - Sean McBride

It's a pity: ChasMark still hasn't received the message that he is not welcome here, and I need to keep switching this group from public to private mode -- only currently subscribed members can see the group or add posts and comments to it. - Sean McBride

Too bad indeed. However, I think ChasMark is not motivated to post due to any welcome or lack thereof. He sees his job as disrupting and will keep trying. The question is - or should be - why are "they" picking on your particular group, Sean? - Danaa

Also, is there no way of just banning the poster? sure he/it will show up under another handle, but... - Danaa

Danaa -- if you look around the Internet, you will notice that neo-Nazis, white nationalists and fanatical antisemites will try to flood and hijack any forum that permits criticism of Israel and Zionism -- they use disenchantment with Israel as an entry wedge to push a much broader anti-Jewish agenda. - Sean McBride

Danaa -- the only way to ban particular users on Friendfeed is to manually unsubscribe them and then take the group private, available only to existing subscribers -- which means that antisocial and malicious personalities like ChasMark have the ability to wreak havoc on open Friendfeed groups. - Sean McBride

IS THIS WHAT YOU ARE DOING? "I need to keep switching this group from public to private mode -- only currently subscribed members can see the group or add posts and comments to it." Because I am constantly shut out then it magically reappears. I sent in a request to join this group, which was not responded to. - MRW_8

MRW -- you should be able to subscribe to this group automatically, with no need for a response -- you are welcome here. Try subscribing right now -- it should work. - Sean McBride

If you want to keep this group open and visible all the time, encourage ChasMark to move on to another forum. - Sean McBride

MRW -- this is what has been going on: I have been deleting ChasMark's posts manually as he posts them while I am attending to the group. When I am away from my computer (which is often), I switch the group to private (invisible) mode. (This is a major limitation of Friendfeed's group features -- the lack of an option to ban specific users and IPs.) I apologize for this -- but I am... more... - Sean McBride

@ Sean: I've heard the claims about the Harvard mafia and ties to the Russian mafia and the looting of the former Soviet Union before, but I don't know what to make of the situation. I'm pretty sure that modern Russia is probably as corrupt and brutal as the old Soviet system. Gaudy Russian capitalism is at least as ugly as the bland and broken Soviet past. - Todd

Read Wedel's book -- it's all there. - Sean McBride

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Sean McBride

Who but a mentally ill or incredibly desperate person -- someone whose views are so extreme and crazy that he has thoroughly marginalized himself -- would continue to post in a forum where he is not welcome?

May 22 - Comment - Like - Share

I am referring to ChasMark. - Sean McBride

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The other possibility is that he is a disruptor for the parties he claims to oppose. - Sean McBride

In any case, if he continues to post here I will probably shut down the group. It's not worth the hassle. - Sean McBride

Sean, shutting down the group would be too bad. especially if that is the purpose of the poster. I do not know why this little forum seems to attract certain types of people, other than as a deliberate disruption. I notice that many have a similar MO - they post first as staunch anti-zionists, just with a slight edge, and are often armed with a wealth of sources, often a bit obscure. As... more... - Danaa

Sean, you are the collector and organizer of lists. I think the list of the traits and memes seized upon by certain posters would disclose who they are and wherefrom they come. There are many similarities which you have noted, to the point one wonders whether they are the same poster. Notice that one of the key traits is "petulance". That, to me, is a tell-tell sign of pretension to... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- your observations and analysis are spot on. The tactic in play is classic bait-and-switch: say some reasonable and undeniably factual things about the influence of the Israel lobby, establish some credibility, and then shift the discussion towards the promotion of full-blown classical antisemitism (which in ChasMark's case includes apologetics for Nazi Germany). When it is made... more... - Sean McBride

Danaa -- I've noticed the petulance, along with several other personality, stylistic. typographical and thematic traits -- and I share your suspicions. - Sean McBride

Sean, one more tell-tale sign: those of us here who came over from MW and still post there are quite content to carry over the same handle. I mean, whyever not? we are, after all, glad to claim ownership of whatever other opinions we evinced over time, even if they were rants (yes, I know...) or were a bit off (who doesn't have an off-day?). that is distinctly not the case with the... more... - Danaa

Yes -- that is why I have asked them for pointers to their other Internet posts. They refuse to provide them -- from which behavior one should be able to draw the appropriate conclusions. - Sean McBride

Sean, for what it's worth, I think you provide a valuable platform for people to engage in should they choose to do so. I have my worries that at a future point the MW comment section may shut down altogether, either in response to an upping of the pressure, or due to fatigue by the blog owners. before that happens, more regular commenters - even ones not so controversial - will get... more... - Danaa

My politics are very simple these days: increase human creativity, reduce human suffering. Stirring up inter-ethnic and inter-religious conflicts doesn't help that agenda. - Sean McBride

Danaa -- I picked up on the attitudes you mentioned quite some ago -- that is why I preemptively opened up this feed for meta-MW discussion. It is helpful to have a forum in which cases like the Eva Smagatz banning can be openly and fully discussed. - Sean McBride

Worst-case scenario regarding the trends you have noticed: Jews and non-Jews stop discussing Israeli and Zionist issues with the objective of achieving mutual understanding -- instead they retreat to their respective fortresses and fight it out to the bitter end. - Sean McBride

I agree sean about the worst-case scenario. One of my key motivations in engaging with people of vastly different backgrounds and viewpoints is precisely to help (if only a little) allay such fate (which has the potential of bringing the entire west to its knees) . Of course, i also learn a lot in the process, which is enjoyable enough for its own sake. As for the cause of humanity - well we all have a dog in this fight, don't we? - Danaa

An emphatic amen to all that. It takes considerable self-discipline to make the effort to try to try engage in a positive way with many points of view of these issues, but I think it is worth the effort. The alternative is too appalling to consider. - Sean McBride

Danaa, I have a lot of respect for you and your insights here and at mondoweiss. I'm sure whatever book you're writing will be very important and I thank you in advance for taking the time and risk to write it. I regret that my comments come across to you as irrational or psy-op-ish. We were all raised in the same philo-semitic western society, whether in israel like you or america like... more... - pepsi

As to the topic you raised here - the bottomline - sometimes, one must do what one must do, in keeping with one's larger interests. I think Chasmark's posts are a deterrent to others who may have wanted to post here and got discouraged due to to those tangents (and he sure posted a lot on some threads, but I found little worth engaging him on, so am basically skipping his posts. Plus... more... - Danaa

pepsi, from where I come, the problem I see in diverting to a discussion of the role of "world jewry" in enabling the persecution of wars on muslim countries (not quite genocide, right?) is that it's simply not useful. that "worldwide jewry" is hardly united or speaking with one voice, is it? it's not an actual entity one can direct criticism at with any hope of achieving policy change,... more... - Danaa

'' I think the mods are watching American quite carefully (but he is just too clever for them, eh, American? (not meant as criticism...)). ..Danaa.....LOL, I think they are watching me too..takes forever for my comments to get posted. Actually I 'm not clever at all .....I just say what I think is plain common sense and true but I 'm not philo-semitic enough for them I guess..in the... more... - American

American, your posts are suspect not because of what you say, I think (do you say any more than march Ellis, for example?) but because of what you are not. basically, jewish people in the US cannot bring themselves to understand why someone not jewish would have any interest in THEIR issues, or THEIR history or THEIR little venture over in the middle east, unless they can be properly... more... - Danaa

one more thing, American. Don't worry too much - my comments are taking quite a while to post too. And I have seen even Hostage complain - who is always as cool-headed as they come. I think they are deliberately cutting back on moderation to pour some cold water on free-wheeling discussions in the comments section. I noticed that many topics (the ones I posted in or others that I looked... more... - Danaa

I've read some of ChasMark's posts. His opinions are his opinions. Does he advocate violence? I think it is pretty obvious that Jewish power is largely ethnocentric, and that few Jews seem to have a problem with Jews being powerful and prominent, and working largely for Jewish interests. I also don't think that Zionism is the only issue where Jews work for Jewish interests in ways that... more... - Todd

I will never forget the very revealing 'outing' of his little true self that MJ Rosenberg did over a comment I made to him. He posted about how distraught and hurt and dissatisfied he was that the US wasn't doing anything 'to save Israel from itself'..went on and on about it. I was nice in my reply and said I understand how he feels about the US but imagine how we Americans who aren't... more... - American

Danaa..... I think mar ellis has really 'blossomed since I've been reading him...he's gotten bolder and bolder and closer to the truths.....maybe he can get away with because he is jewish. At first he didn't resonate with me....but gradually I started seeing something in him. - American

''will still be on the watch for the "flip-side" of jealousy. - Danaa '....That puzzles me also, what do they think Americans have to be jealous over about Jews or Israel? Is this attitude or belief related to the old claims that Jews were persecuted out of jealously because they were smart or rich or whatever? I could see them having a suspicion that non Jews 'resent ' them' over the... more... - American

American: two things: 1. I tried to post a reply on that thread where MJ flipped out (and all but called MW an anti-semitism-enabling site, but the thread shut down shortly thereafter. I think lots of people may have tried to reply because MJ was really going off the rail. But the blog moderators probably decided that enough is enough and that a major food fight is about is breaking out... more... - Danaa

One more thing, American (and also Sean, if you are still reading here - sorry i am going on and on today. Am in one of my infamous avoidance routines). I honestly try to tell it like I see and hear it, realizing my experience may be limited. But people do for some reason like to whisper in my ear, making sure I know "we are all in it together" even as I try to make it clear that i... more... - Danaa

You are always a pleasure and treasure Danaa no matter what ....I always apprecate whatever you say and your take on the " innards" of the Israel-Jewish-Zio issue ....and ....Remember I want my copy of your book autographed. - American

I don't like the 'World Jewry" thing, it has a stigma attached to it....it shouldn't have any more than saying World Christianity, but it does because of how it's been used by some. Also using it just reinforces the zionist propaganda of the world wide nation of Jews....let's not help them. - American

I resent only being able to generalize about the jewish community in an adoring, righteous gentile sort of way. It is a weird phenomenon, enforced in a million different ways. Danaa, thanks for the insight into Israeli 'chosen-envy' thinking, but surely you can acknowledge certain negative characteristics as being shared by a slim or greater majority of the jewish People, aka the Tribe,... more... - pepsi

JustTheFactsPlease -- are you and ChasMark the same person? Or have you posted under another name here? - Sean McBride

"If aggressive ethnic nationalism is good for Jews why isn't it good for every other ethnic group?" Unfortunately, I think that many groups will be pushed to defensive ethnic nationalism, and it's not just Zionists who are doing the pushing. The situations in Sweden and Britain come to mind, but I could also see trouble coming to America, especially with demographic change. Sure, most... more... - Todd

pepsi, I see you are taking up the theme of "tribal adulation" contending that your way of looking at it is but a variation of themes I raise myself. I both beg to differ and thank you for clarifying something for me that was kind of vague before. The differences have to do with tone more than content. Your direction seems to be one that leads to more hand-wringing about the "global... more... - Danaa

Sean - Justthefarcts please joined just as we were discussing Chasmark. He comes on this thread (and it's a "he". of that I am sure - all Duke's proponents seem to be very mal-ish), immediately swinging in Duke's direction. Now what the heck does Duke have to do with the subject matters we are discussing? is he the world's greatest thinker or is he a convenient meme to brandish as one... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- I agree completely with all your remarks and thanks for piping up -- I am waiting to see how JustTheFactsPlease responds to a few fair questions: is he and ChasMark the same person? Has he posted under another name or names here? Can he point us to posts of his on other websites? Until he responds in a reasonable and substantive way, all of his comments will be deleted. (I also deleted my responses to him -- one would have to be a fool to get sucked into the same old con game once again.) - Sean McBride

Not ChasMark, I attempted to intervene awhile back when you and he/she were going back and forth but the comments have since been deleted. The Paul Eisen quote discusses Duke but the hypothetical scenario regarding Ariel Sharon is also one that I agree with. I have no desire to suck you into any kind of round and round like what went down with Chas. - JustTheFactsPlease

I'll interject again, JTFP, if I may. The problem with your post is that it was irrelevant to the discussion and points made on the thread. You chose to go off into the blue yonder with something about Duke being a nice guy and bringing Eisen into the mix somehow (now why these two exactly?). You didn't seem to take the trouble to figure that people here are not very interested in this... more... - Danaa

I wish there was a feature here to make paragraphs. I am sorry that my posts get so long and realize it's almost unreadable without some formatting. I could separate into more posts but then it would look like hogging. Or I could just save some thoughts for another day. Now, there's a thought!. - Danaa

It's not easy writing for so many people. It almost takes a seperate blog, but not quite. - pepsi

Danaa -- feel free to break up your text into separate comments/paragraphs -- as many as you like. Or even separate standalone posts. Whatever helps the comprehension and flow of your remarks. - Sean McBride

I felt it was relevant to post the quote in its entirety by Eisen because it dealt specifically with how how to behave when "when someone bad" comes around, "For example, if Ariel Sharon wants to remember Deir Yassin (for the right reasons) as far as I'm concerned he’s very welcome.", I thought about only quoting a portion of the Eisen quote but I didn't want to be accused of cherry picking parts of it, so I let it all hang out. Generally I agree with his main thrust, that's all. Wasn't trying to provoke - JustTheFactsPlease

Sean, thanks for the suggestion. I may follow up and put up one or two of the comments here as a separate post. later perhaps. - Danaa

Danaa, how did you find out that Eva Smagacz was banned? - MRW_8

"one more thing, American. Don't worry too much - my comments are taking quite a while to post too. And I have seen even Hostage complain "..Danaa..."..... I dont know what the deal is but when I post a comment at say 11am and then go back to that thread, there wll be a slew of comments posted after (later then) mine and mine dont usually get posted untl the ''next day", sometimes 2... more... - American

Danaa -- regarding the list thing: all the knowledge and facts in the world can be expressed as a single set of interactive lists. Some folks are thinking about this challenge, which is a key research front for the Semantic Web. Sometimes I use Mideast politics as a pretext to think about more interesting issues -- that domain is ripe with low-hanging semantic fruit that is easy to pluck and listify. - Sean McBride

Danaa -- also, I read your comments carefully, which were loaded with some important starting points for useful lines of discussion. I intend to get around to some of your remarks when I find time to concentrate in full. (It's good to know we don't agree on everything. :)) - Sean McBride

MRW_8, re Eva Smagacz - she popped up on a thread here last week to let us know she was banned. I responded and asked a question about the "offending" comment but did not get a replay (yet). Later, when time permits, I'll try and find that thread again - I know there were many comments on it. - Danaa

I clicked on one of the MW links from this site two days ago, and Eva's photo was in place next to each of the MW writers. I'm guessing that wasn't official MW doings. - Todd

American, I think you are right for the most part and that MW has ranked commenters. But they have additional filters in place. My comments sometimes come up pronto (those few that are short, typically); others just sit there for a long time. So I think the length of comment has something to do with it - annie kind of hinted they are very short handed on moderators, so there may be only... more... - Danaa

Re: Eva see: https://friendfeed.com/search... and this post/thread: https://friendfeed.com/mondowe... - Sean McBride

Again: discussions here related to Mondoweiss posts (and other topics) can proceed full-throttle with no moderation (but no white nationalists or neo-Nazis are welcome -- please find another place to post). - Sean McBride

one complication MW has in trying to tamp down the comments section is that they are actively soliciting and encouraging comments from the Palestinian and Arab side. Well, many with that heritage are, for example, Americans who are, by definition, non jewish. Sean can probably help us sift through the list they must have come up with. I am virtually certain that anyone labeled with the... more... - Danaa

Sean, I am gratified to hear we may not agree on everything. It would be seriously worrisome otherwise (causing thoughts to go in various matrix-like directions - cross-talk and all that. I do try to keep my program's wires clean!). I appreciate you reading my occasionally over-loaded posts. As you can tell from the typos and lack of capitals these just stream through sometimes (that... more... - Danaa

I will probably start a couple of posts based on themes from my comments - test how that might work - splitting up into multiple strands. But no can do till later when a new time bin becomes available and some memory is freed. - Danaa

Sean, do you really think that Chas Mark is a WN or neo-Nazi? It is possible to try and understand National Socialism without defending the movement. But the only person I know of who tried to do so on a professional level was dismissed from an appointed post and was wrongly smeared as being a Nazi sympathizer. I've largely skipped CM's posts because I don't really care to fight WWII... more... - Todd

Todd, who was it that got sacked from his post? - JustTheFactsPlease

You didn't ask me Todd.....and people use multiculturalism in different meanings. But imo multi cultures weren't a problem in this country until they became 'big P-political' parties. The whole idea of the US as melting pot but still one united people has given way to tribalism, for lack of a better term, where people divide up to 'identities" and "interest' groups and try to get as... more... - American

JTF, the incident happened quite some time ago, so articles are hard to come by. WND is the best I can do: http://www.wnd.com/1998... I don't know Christina Jeffries, but I remember the incident because it happened locally. The whole episode tool place at a time when the advancement of the Holocaust in education took root in the state of GA. This is roughly the time when a... more... - Todd

American, I'm pretty sure that I fall into the throw-away-American category. I largely agree with your views, but I'm pretty much of the opinion that many of the people being brought/attracted to the nation today couldn't be melted into Americans if they even wanted to--which I don't believe many do. I think Sweden and England are other good examples of the failure of multiculturalism,... more... - Todd

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: pepsi

http://www.bloomberg.com/news...

May 23 - Comment - Like - Share

Stop With the Jew-Ranking Already! By Jeffrey Goldberg - pepsi

3 more comments

What a crazy-quily article. Vintage Goldberg. Lots of "on the one hand, on the other hand". Glad to see these lists finally make him cringe a bit. It's been cringe-inducing for most of us (jewish and not) for a while now. First the triumphalism, then the hand-wringing. Of course, good old Jeff couldn't resist taking another dig at Walt and Mersheimer, but what else is new? - Danaa

On the other hand (to take a page from our Jeffrey), it could just be he really didn't like not making the list, so now it's "down with the jew Ranking", eh? and what was last year when he was on it? chopped liver? - Danaa

At first glance it seems to be just narcissistic pouting disguised as that wonderful jewish humor he assumes he must have a gift for. Then it almost seems like he's trying to incite resentment in his readers. When assimilation is a disease, outsider resentment must be fomented. Age old tactic of cults. Age old. - pepsi

when these lists or bragging articles are published, how much of the handwringing is a realization that SOME responsibility is owed to greater society? - pepsi

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Sean McBride

FBI faces lawsuit over secret surveillance of prominent anti-war website | The Raw Story - http://www.rawstory.com/rs...

May 21 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

"Documents released in 2011 after a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request showed the FBI investigated whether the anti-war site was “engaging in, or have engaged in, activities which constitute a threat to National Security on behalf of a foreign power.” The federal agency recommended that agents should “further monitor the postings on website www.antiwar.com” in 2004." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

9 more comments

What are the odds that neocons and pro-Israel militants inside the government sicced the FBI on Antiwar.com, which is a conspicuously and authentically pro-American publication. Antiwar.com has been a great annoyance to the Israel lobby and Israel Firsters. - Sean McBride

This is how craazy this has all become.... saw this comment over at Col Langs's that just about descrbles the US perfectly >>>>>>>>>"AK said... United States foreign policy has revealed itself as the political manifestation of the Kama Sutra: We just keep finding new and ingenious ways to screw ourselves and everyone else into one big messy pile. Beyond that, I have no words....'' - American

What foreign power would Ant War be acting for? - American

The suspicion or charge makes absolutely no sense -- it turns reality on its head. What would make more sense is that a patriotic American publication is being harassed by agents of a foreign power who have infiltrated and subverted American intelligence and law enforcement agencies. - Sean McBride

They seem to think it stems from or started with the AW coverage on the Israels and 911...and it may have..but AW doesnt concentrate on Israel .....AW concentrates more on calling out the government. - American

Antiwar.com all along has been one of the most aggressive critics of the Israel lobby in the United States -- it may be AW's leading issue. Certainly it has been Justin Raimondo's leading issue. - Sean McBride

timeline; Antiwar.com; *date; anti-Israel article in; *data {timeline; *object; *date; *property; *value} // you'll find hundreds of datapoints, from the late 1990s to the present - Sean McBride

A typical article: - Sean McBride

timeline; Antiwar.com; 20020315; anti-Israel article in; author=Justin Raimondo; title=Israel Versus America; url=http://www.antiwar.com/justin... - Sean McBride

Anti-war is one of those sites that make the the PTBs worry to high heaven. The reason is, I believe, that it's one of the few places where people of libertartian bend (like justin) and those way on the "real" left, can congregate and share notes,. tacitly agreeing to overlook their differences, something for which Justin Raymondo set the tone. Nothing is more worrisome to the... more... - Danaa

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Sean McBride

# sort Mondoweiss commenters by *

May 15 - Comment - Like - Share

1. affiliations 2. Arab affiliations 3. Christian affiliations 4. city 5. email address 6. employers 7. ethnicity 8. fame 9. gender 10. Google PageRank 11. highest degrees 12. highest security clearance 13. intelligence affiliations 14. IP address 15. Israeli affiliations 16. Jewish affiliations 17. Klout Score 18. military affiliations 19. Mossad affiliations 20. Muslim affiliations 21. nations of citizenship 22. nations of residence 23. net worth 24. number of accusations of antisemitism 25. number of anti-*topic comments 26. number of anti-Jewish comments 27. number of anti-Muslim comments 28. number of cited sources 29. number of comments 30. number of comments on * 31. number of communications with *nation 32. number of communications with *organization 33. number of communications with *organization-type 34. number of communications with *person 35. number of communications with *person-type 36. number of ethnocentric comments 37. number of Internet searches on * 38. number of... more... - Sean McBride

31 more comments

sort (*, ethnic, religious) groups by number of Mondoweiss (*, articles, commenters, comments, writers, top 10 donors) - Sean McBride

Why this sorting, sean? are you doing the "devil"'s advocacy or is there an overarching reason? - Danaa

Danaa -- I think it's a good idea to be fully aware of the kind of data mining that can be performed by various parties today, and no doubt is, not only on Mondoweiss, but on every conceivable domain under the sun. See my main feed https://friendfeed.com/seanmcb... to understand where I am coming from on information processing issues. Some of these data mining technologies are... more... - Sean McBride

Danaa -- the general public is absolutely clueless about these technologies and what can be done now -- and that is largely by deliberation by the people who have developed and control them. It is especially important to comprehend that one has absolutely no real privacy on the Internet, unless you are using state-of-the-art encryption -- and that may be crackable by some parties. All of our Internet activities are an open book to those with the authority (or skills) to read it. - Sean McBride

By the way, I left some other comments for you back on April 27 -- they are easy to find with the search expression Friendfeed [incomment:danaa group:mondoweiss-on-friendfeed] https://friendfeed.com/search... - Sean McBride

Where I'm coming from on the lists business: https://friendfeed.com/seanmcb... It's what's happening at the cutting edge of information technology and social science (including political science and practical politics), whether one likes it or not. - Sean McBride

Thanks Sean, i will consult your main page to get a better idea of where you are coming from. Also thanks for sending me to those older comments of yours - frankly, right after I dropped my own comment, things got hectic busy-crazy again and I failed to return to check on that thread. Your compliment in particular is most appreciated. Those i can use any day. I miss chatting with you,... more... - Danaa

BTW, haven't seen you in evidence at MW in some time. Shortly after your big brouhaha with Mooser, in fact. Speaking of whom, Mooser has also absented himself of late, though he has been seen posting elsewhere. Curious and curioser, as they say. I know MW comments have slowed to a painfully glacial pace. partly deliberately, no doubt, partly, lack of time for moderation (or so I'm... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- I decided to stop commenting on Mondoweiss after running into a brick wall in my efforts to open up a conversation about the role of the worldwide Jewish religious establishment in promoting the fusion of the ideologies of Judaism and Zionism. Getting to the bottom of this issue strikes me as the key to moving Israeli politics in a more positive and less dangerous direction --... more... - Sean McBride

Good luck on your book -- I look forward to reading it. - Sean McBride

Sean, regarding the unfortunate fusion between judaism and zionism - that's a topic that's is brought up - often enough lately - not just on MW, including in Marc Ellis' series. I am reading a book, in fact, on this very theme right now, and as you know, have commented on this multiple times before. Unfortunately, the current state of affairs on this debate is that there's a desire -... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- I think the trend towards conflating Judaism with Zionism continues to move at a much faster than glacial pace and that that ideology/attitude is becoming a hardened belief system in the Jewish establishment and the world at large (which takes its lead on these matters from the Jewish establishment) -- which means that Zionism now has the potential to retroactively discredit... more... - Sean McBride

Re: Mondoweiss: I still think it's a valuable forum, and I agree with most of the views expressed in it, but I doubt that it will have much success in modifying the views of the Jewish establishment on Israeli politics (not to mention the views of the Christian Zionist establishment -- which is much more hardheaded and stiff-necked than the Jewish establishment, and less open to rational thinking and dialogue). - Sean McBride

You and I are both bored by ghetto walls of all types -- we barely notice them. I would like to think that most Americans share our views. Most Americans I know do. But militant self-ghettoizers in the world have the power to wreak a great deal of mischief and havoc on all of us. I am predicting mischief and havoc in our future over these issues -- much more than we have already experienced. - Sean McBride

Read Gilad Atzmon's latest on Veteran's Today: "Take It From the Rabbi’s Mouth." He quotes a treatise/whatever written by 757 Rabbis in 1942, called "Zionism: An Affirmation of Judaism." http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013... The original 1942 article is here: "Zionism: An Affirmation of Judaism," http://a2vigil.org/judaism... But read Atzmon's amplification. A lot of food for thought. - MRW_8

Thanks for the heads-up, Danaa: "MRW is another commenter who's all too aware of what it means to "come out" as non-Jewish." The worst of it is my own family who now view me as anti-semitic for MENTIONING THE WORD ISRAEL. What keeps their knee-jerkism at bay are my educational degrees, something none of them can match in level, (school) source, or number. Age, I've been reading,... more... - MRW_8

Speaking for myself, and myself only -- I've noticed that if I become too relentlessly angry at one, and only one, factor or player in the world -- especially in global politics -- I need to stand back, take stock and reboot. It is easy to go off the rails when trying to read reality -- there are well-known pitfalls and traps to avoid. Overfocusing on this or that element of the world... more... - Sean McBride

# Converging technologies and research fronts 1. artificial intelligence 2. automated knowledge discovery 3. bibliometrics 4. Big Data 5. biometrics 6. citation analysis 7. cloud computing 8. content analysis 9. corpus linguistics 10. data mining 11. data visualization 12. deep learning 13. face recognition 14. intelligent assistants 15. Internet of Things 16. list processing 17.... more... - Sean McBride

MRW -- that article with the introduction by Gilad Atzmon is very important -- not every article that Veterans Today publishes is without merit. The worldwide Jewish establishment has worked hard to define Judaism as messianic Jewish ethnic nationalism -- now it has to live with the consequences, which will probably be appalling. - Sean McBride

A major factor in play: Zionism has been immensely profitable for the American military-industrial complex. - Sean McBride

I would actually go to the library (yes, pre-five-years-old) and ask the librarian to look up things ''...MRW.''.....LOL...you too? I remember hearing the adults mention a book written about our town that was some sort of scandal and when I asked about it I got sushed up. and brushed off,naturally making me even more curious ..so I trotted to the local library to find it, whereupon I was once again told by the librarian I wasn't old enough to read the book and couldn't check it out. - American

'' I've noticed that if I become too relentlessly angry at one, and only one, factor or player in the world -- sean'.......Nothing wrong wth beng relentlessly angry about something ..that's how things get corrected ...but yeah I agree there is something wrong if that's the 'only' thing one is angry about....if people cant connect it to the big picture. RE: US zionism,-- I keep pushing... more... - American

Once you've been indoctrinated into the belief that a particular political movement or nation is the manifestation of a religion -- of the will of God Himself -- it's quite difficult to get one's head and emotions straight on these issues -- even if you are a self-professed rational and secular skeptic. The indoctrination runs deep. - Sean McBride

I strongly disagree with many policies of the Israeli government and the Israel lobby -- and I know for a certainty that the Israel lobby plays an outsized and sometimes destructive role in American politics -- but by no means do I think that Israel is the only player in world affairs, or even the most important. You need to keep your eye on the ball -- on the big picture -- to see the world whole and in its true proportions. - Sean McBride

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define... - pepsi

"Shucking and jiving" was a tactic of both survival and resistance. A slave, for instance, could say eagerly, "Oh, yes, Master," and have no real intention to obey. Or an African- American man could pretend to be working hard at a task he was ordered to do, but might put up this pretense only when under observation. Both would be instances of "doin' the old shuck 'n jive." It has been... more... - pepsi

I kind of agree with American that the "zionism" aspect has sipped into way too many spaces on the US political landscape. One of the memes I've been pushing - including comments on MW American was among the few to take note thereof - is really quite simple: the most unfortunate results of the "sipping-in" corrosive aspects of the enforced zionism in the public sphere is simply... more... - Danaa

BTW, one of the funniest exchanges I had with Keith (who I otherwise rather like) is that in his increasingly desperate attempt to push the empire-uber-ales meme, he has taken to strange reverse-thinking, where the "stupid" effect has actually come from the "empire" and has infected Israel, the vassal to the empire. Interestingly, Chomsky, the ostensible leader of Chomskiite thinking,... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- deep thoughts there. Zionism has produced an immense dumbing down of American foreign and domestic policy that may lead to the collapse of American power -- it has promoted endless self-destructive foreign wars (costing several trillion dollars), the creation of an unconstitutional domestic police state, and the elevation to power in the Congress of Christian Zionists who... more... - Sean McBride

the first people marx/trotsky targeted for genocide were the educated. Same thing with the chinese communists and their soviet advisors. During the arab revolts in palestine in '36 and '38 i believe, british troops slaughtered the educated class of palestine, ensuring short term reactionary decision making against the zionist project. The stupidity in u.s. Gov is not real but enforced... more... - pepsi

Imo.......most every issue we have is linked to our systemic political corruption. We can identify the 'corruptors and their agendas-----the I-firsters corrupted US policy on Isr-ME----WS Elite and greed mongers corrupted US domestic banking and financial policy and so on and on. To get rid of ALL corruption we would literally have to have a big R revolution...so what we do is pull at... more... - American

I remember watching a Richard Pryor comedy special filmed in maybe new orleans in the 70s. At one point he stopped being funny and addressed white racism/jim crow head on. He talked about the underfunding and undermining of black schools, and whites then pointing to the (inevitable) poor performances as proof of black inferiority. Big boos from the white audience. Even phil weiss points... more... - pepsi

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

Exile and the prophetic: The Jewish code of silence - http://mondoweiss.net/2013...

May 11 from Mondoweiss - Comment - Like - Share

Jews used to be known for challenging the codes of the powerful. Not in the era of the Jewish establishment

23 more comments

Alas, the comment on this post banned me from Mondoweiss. EvaSmagacz - Eva Smagacz

wow, sorry to hear that Eva. Jewish pride often runs deep. You touched a nerve with one of your betters, lol. The non-narcissistic but still exceptionally prophetic. - pepsi

Eva, I can't believe that - you are one of the most respected voices on the MW comment section. Always good insights - I especially liked the European perspective you'd bring, and, of course, the view from Poland and east Europe, something we are almost never treated to. Also, I can't imagine you'd say something more biting than some of the scathing pearls I drop now and then. What was... more... - Danaa

as an aside, some of the things Marc Ellis himself has to say about Jewry at large and the code of silence in particular is definitely beyond many a red line (not mine of course - i'm long done with lines - not my favorite geometry anyways. Too limiting). I mean, he compared the jewish establishment to the mafia! so what could you have said he didn't/ or was it that you said it while not being Jewish? - Danaa

Danaa, I think this is the comment: 'Jews used to be known for challenging the codes of the powerful. Not in the era of the Jewish establishment' - pepsi

What?...banned for that, tell me you're kidding Eva! Maybe it's a log in mistake or something. How is saying that about the 'Jewish establishment' bad.....I've probably said that or something like it or even worse than that ....and I know I've said a hell of lot worse than that about the so called 'American establishment.' Anyway the Jewish establishment -if you want to call who is... more... - American

Marc Ellis: ''Sometimes the prophetic needs a nudge from outside. Then our internal prophetic kicks in. The prophetic isn’t automatic. Even Jews who know that the prophetic is the essence of what it means to be Jewish and are known for their stands on justice issues can’t to be trusted on issues close to home. There’s too much at stake.'' keep dreaming Marc. Eva just gave the slightest... more... - pepsi

Abrahamic/biblical self-righteousness and a conviction of high-minded moral mission have often served as a cover for predatory aggression and extreme violence against cult outsiders. That is a fact. Many neocons and Christian Zionists framed the Iraq War within this ideological tradition. Watch out for overexcited zealots who are working to "improve" the world on behalf of "God" -- often they firmly believe their own nonsense -- they've mastered the art of self-interested self-hypnosis. - Sean McBride

"prophetic" is often a synonym for "gassy" and "self-deluded" - Sean McBride

we're watching a Muslim Holocaust in front of our eyes. Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Lybia, Iran on a diet and dying without meds already. Egypt food insecure, Saudi Arabia a US and Israel propped up slave state. I don't see any prophets at mondoweiss talking about A Clean Break and the obvious mass genocide that extends beyond the tiny Palestinian bantustans. To call a... more... - pepsi

"Prophets" tend to be sociopathic scammers and mental masturbators with a gift for fleecing their flocks. - Sean McBride

'Prophets" tend to be sociopathic scammers and mental masturbators..sean'.....Amen brother. - American

Be fair, Sean. Marc Ellis has a specific definition of "prophets" in mind, something he contrasts with the "Exilic". Actually i think he has some pretty good insights now and then on the clash between spiritual values (which he sees in aspects of judaism but not just there) and the expansionary, militaristic, self-isolating values typical of what israel has become. I believe that for... more... - Danaa

I dont know about sean but I thnk these days a lot of us tend to assocate 'prophets' with what I call the 'God Merchants' ..all those disgusting religilous leaders out there claiming to have a direct phone line to God. Pretty good racket since there's no chance God is going to show himself and sue them for patent infringement. - American

Danaa -- I agree that there are prophetic elements of the Bible that are authentically spiritual, moving and valuable, but, overall, when one surveys history, the typical pattern is for prophetic (messianic) movements to run amok and run aground, leaving vast swathes of destruction in their wake. I am generally skeptical of prophetic rhetoric. Regarding Marc Ellis in particular -- my mind resonates positively with much of what he has to say. I respect his prophetic mission. - Sean McBride

Regarding those lists -- and the vision of a rapidly self-evolving global superintelligence based on current trends in artificial intelligence, the Semantic Web, Big Data mining, advanced knowledge technologies, etc. -- my stance on these matters is more predictive than prophetic. These revolutionary tools exist in the real world but are not necessarily good or bad -- in fact, they... more... - Sean McBride

Regarding Kurzweil - you don't find it a touch odd/scary that he has been appointed R&D guru at Google? the tools of which you speak - you call them "revolutionary". You sure you didn't mean "evolutionary"? one of these days, i'll share a bit of what I know on the "hardware" side of things. Now that's where the really scary stuff is. I consider it lucky that the software is lagging behind....at least in certain areas. - Danaa

Danaa -- clearly you know your stuff on these technologies. Wrt to Kurzweil and Google: I can understand the hire and applauded it. From the beginning, Larry Page has had a grand vision of organizing all the knowledge in the world, and Ray is determined to push that vision to the next level. But we really need to keep an eye on these boys and their toys -- they could be abused in... more... - Sean McBride

It's a safe bet that Mossad's lists on Mondoweiss (and thousands of other organizations) go well beyond the list I posted. Think about it. One should be cognizant of these issues -- possess accurate situational awareness. - Sean McBride

"One should be aware of these issues -- possess accurate situational awareness." Sounds interesting. Any personal experiences to share? - Todd

A few personal experiences, yes, but not to share. - Sean McBride

Too bad. - Todd

"I certainly don't believe that a global superintelligence is going to perfect the world -- in fact, we may well succeed in destroying ourselves with these shiny toys." You are starting to sound like a rube, Sean. :) - Todd

I would sound like a rube if I were a full-throttle transhumanist. - Sean McBride

Sean McBride to Sean's feed, Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

Finding Misha: Could the mystery man who radicalized Tamerlan Tsarnaev have been an FBI informant? (Walter Katz) http://news.yahoo.com/finding...

April 26 - Comment - Like - Share

"There is hardly definitive evidence. But when you break down what we do know, this idea isn't nearly as far-fetched as other conspiracy theories circulating the web." - Sean McBride

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"According to Aaronson, the FBI "maintains a roster of 15,000 spies — many of them tasked… with infiltrating Muslim communities." In addition, for every officially recognized informant there are three unofficial informants. During the Mother Jones investigation with the University of California, Berkeley, they examined 508 terrorism-related cases. Of those, "nearly half the prosecutions... more... - Sean McBride

"Aaronson described how the sting is typically started with the FBI assigning an informant to approach "the target posing as a radical." As the relationship develops, "the operative will propose a plot, provide, explosives, even lead the target in a fake oath to Al Qaeda. Once enough incriminating information has been gathered, there's an arrest — and a press conference announcing... more... - Sean McBride

"This is a methodology which the FBI has used consistently since 9/11. Is it far-fetched to surmise that Misha was another al-Saidi or Assad — used by the government to cozy up to Tamerlan and put ideas in his head? Suppose Tamerlan, though growing sympathetic, never got to the point of wanting to formulate a plot or wanting to take an oath because he was busy boxing, or buying nice... more... - Sean McBride

"When Misha, or whatever his real name was, got nowhere did he slip back into the night without the FBI knowing that the seeds of destruction had now been planted in Tamerlan's head? Was it only later, once Tamerlan had gone back another time to Dagestan, or began steering his little brother towards radicalism, that the plot was hatched? After all, unlike the Liberty City 7, they didn't... more... - Sean McBride

"1. The FBI did know about Tamerlan years ago thanks to Russia's security services. 2. The FBI contacted Tamerlan and put him on the terrorism watch list. 3. Tamerlan, like the Liberty City 7, fell under the spell of a foreigner who behaved as if he had his best spiritual interests at heart. 4. The government was aware Tamerlan traveled back and forth to Dagestan. 5. Now no one seems to be able to identify or place Misha anywhere." - Sean McBride

This is a credible line of speculation. - Sean McBride

If you're going to do somethng and one of your goals is to not get caught at it or afterward then DO NOT TELL *ANYONE* YOUR PLANS OR THOUGHTS... .that is where most plotters mess up. A weakness in most human's natures of wanting to 'share', have a reinforcer or 'company in their cause. - American

Sean, I like this theory, with a caveat. I agree there's a very good chance "Misha" was a government operative. proof is in the pudding - where and who is he? why doesn't it look like anyone is looking for him? moreover, the biggest mystery are the Russian motives - if they were so worried about Tamerlan, letting him into the country (Dagestan) seems crazy. There's little the Russians... more... - Danaa

More stuff that smell fishy: that murder case in 2011 - in what universe would Tamerlan not be the first suspect? does anyone else get the funny feeling he was treated with kids gloves? perhaps there was a little quid pro quo? - Danaa

Danaa -- I, for one, have missed your posts, and I am sure many others have as well. What have you been up to? - Sean McBride

Danaa -- regarding your scenario/speculation -- you should be running a major spy service or writing a blockbuster spy novel -- brilliant! One can actually envision something like this being behind recent events -- this is much more subtle and in tune with the real world than the Alex Jones-style conspiracy theories floating around out there which are not nearly clever enough. - Sean McBride

Danaa -- you raise an especially interesting point: why wasn't Tamerlan questioned with regard to those three murders in Waltham? One is reminded that Whitey Bulger got away with committing many crimes for years under the full protection of the FBI. Governments typically protect informants and ops, and people are who are being manipulated by informants and ops, from investigation and prosecution for many crimes -- governments want to keep their ops in motion according to whatever script they have in mind. - Sean McBride

So -- perhaps Misha was a government-controlled string-puller of some kind (numerous governments could be suspects). Perhaps Tamerlan was in the loop -- or perhaps not. Perhaps he was an unwitting player in this game. One thing is for certain: if the Boston Marathon bombings were the product of an op or sting, whether botched or not, the government will do everything in its power to... more... - Sean McBride

It struck me as interesting that Tamerlan's Amazon.com Wish List was much more focused on organized crime, criminal activities and Chechen nationalism than on Islam: http://www.amazon.com/gp... - Sean McBride

"and did you all miss me? - Danaa ".....Yes we have..and I also think there is something squirrely ---The FBI on him, then not on him, monitored then not monitored?.....cleared by the FBI but then denied citizenship by HomeLand Sec.? Seems many illogical holes in story. Could be he was captured in the 'web'..rebelled and went rouge was also my thought. - American

So you're saying he started to wear lipstick (go rouge)? :) (Sorry.) You're right: the official story smells fishy. - Sean McBride

rogue...lol....I really can spell...a little anyway...I just can't type worth a crap....lol - American

I never nag people about typos -- I make them all the time myself. I found it amusing to picture Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the pugnacious boxer, in drag. :) - Sean McBride

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Sean McBride

Regarding Mooser

January 3 - Comment - Like - Share

I am trying to be as fair as possible to this guy, who is usually a harmless and likable comedian, but there is a side of him that has really got my attention recently. When I tried to discuss the role of Judaism in Zionism and the role of the Jewish lobby in the Israel lobby -- both highly legitimate and important topics -- the knives came out. The unhumorous hysteria and malice was unmistakable. He reminded me of Jeffrey Goldberg when Goldberg goes all Kahanist on Stephen Walt. Interesting. - Sean McBride

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Anti-Zionists who try to obstruct open discussions about the inner operations of Zionism are in fact helping to protect Zionism. They are walking oxymorons. - Sean McBride

I think Mooser's main thing is he thinks no one but Jews "know anything about" Jews or Judaism....hence his reaction when anyone gets into discussing Judaism or sociological and evolutionary traits, culture and etc.. since I know little about Judaism I don't get into discussing that aspect of Jewishness with him, doesn't really interest me. He is very anti zionism but I also think he... more... - American

I do remember one time when I commented about the restrictions on Jews in old times that led to many of them being in merchant and money lending or collecting livelihoods. I think it was one of those Phil conversations about Jewish success or the professions a lot of Jews chose--and I suggested it might be because of a sort of tradition passed due to those ancient restrictions on Jews.... more... - American

Yes -- you've nailed Mooser -- there is a good deal of overexcited primitive tribalism lurking behind the comic exterior. I am fairly confident that I know more about Judaism than he does -- I took the trouble to read several hundred of the best books on the subject -- most of them by Jewish scholars who have made their best effort to figure it out. Mooser doesn't do books and serious scholarship -- which, when you think about it, is sort of un-Jewish by the best standards of the Jewish tradition. - Sean McBride

Added note: I know many Jewish scholars who know much more about Christianity than most Christians. - Sean McBride

"I know many Jewish scholars who know much more about Christianity than most Christians. " Sadly, that does not take a lot of doing. - ChasMark

Well I happily confess I am a not very regular Sunday church type of christian who has fogotten most of what I knew about christianity "details".....12 years of religious boarding school being taught by priest and nuns will do that to you. Your cache overflows and you delete it....lol. Smatterings of knowledge come back now and then when forced to. - American

American -- one of my perspectives on world religions is that I am fascinated by how all belief systems (including religious and secular ideologies) interact to produce what we see before us right now. What makes world civilization tick? Let's take it apart and see. - Sean McBride

yes i agree, i've been put off by mooser at those rare moments as well. regarding jewish history and world history. a few months ago i thought about the staying power of these identities, and also tried to think about the history of modern civilization, and even back to 1 CE/BC. i realized this... - anonymouscomments

let's take the longer lasting individuals in a community, or even just assume that as a child you will get the gist of the world passed on from your grandfather (either directly from your grandfather, or through your father [just going male for example]). you can, without much effort (and we used to do this more without modern distractions) really get the entire world your grandfather... more... - anonymouscomments

given the tribal nature of the world historically, and the fact that it largely persists today.... there are SERIOUS trends within groups, and this so quickly reaches FAR back. i just kinda wanted to lay that out, cause it seemed fucked to think 20 leaps back.... we are at jesus and the roman empire. like, WTF. the explosion of humanity is.... so recent. how odd that we live now as well... when it all spanned the globe and got pulled together. - anonymouscomments

anonymouscomments -- that is a creative angle of vision on world history. That 20 units of cultural history helps promote that insight that one can hold this thing -- world civilization -- in the palm of one's hand, like a crystal ball. In some ways, the dominant patterns that pull it all together are quite simple when you see the big picture. - Sean McBride

btw, i'm only half through this, but have you read or have any thoughts on this- http://vho.org/aaargh... - anonymouscomments

I started the Controversy of Zion. The book seems well researched. He completed it in 1956 but was published in 1978. Was he afraid of the backlash it would create? - Chu_

I recall him flipping out on me b/c I has said that neocons were in large part Jews that were pushing for the Iraq invasion. He flipped the script and went all ballistic on me. Thought I was tarring the tribe collectively with accusations. - Chu_

He's somewhat funny at times, but doesn't read books as Sean notes. - Chu_

In the beginning of Reed's book he focuses on the Torah. After reading the first chapters there is enough bad components of the Torah that don't sit well. The racism, etc - Chu_

I will get around to reading Reed's book soon -- I downloaded it to my smartphone. - Sean McBride

I think you would appreciate it, It's well written. I'm also reading Amos Elon 'The Pity of it All'. This book discusses the relationship of Jewish acceptance into the Prussian cities. It spans from 1740 to 1933. It starts with Moses Mendelssohn and discusses how Prussians viewed him as an ideal Jew. Mendelssohn sought to educate himself in German thought, literature and philosophy. He was well respected, and referred to as the father of Reform Judaism. - Chu_

In "The Controversy of Zion," Ch 17, The Destructive Mission, is devastating. Last Spring a professor from a local Presbyterian seminary gave a presentation on "Genesis" at a neighborhood church. The pastor of the church and the professor were personal friends. The prof. had nothing but overwhelming praise for the Old Testament scriptures, "basis of western civilization;" "most... more... - ChasMark

Actually, Thomas Jefferson was repulsed by the Old Testament. Most leading Enlightenment thinkers shared his views. Most of the best ideas in Western civilization emerged from the ancient Greeks and Romans. But still: there are ideas of considerable value in the Old Testament if you take the trouble to tease them out. - Sean McBride

What is worthy of noting and emulating about Jefferson's analysis and conclusions is that he dealt in the realm of ideas, not of persons. "Their Ethics were not only imperfect, but often irreconcilable with the sound dictates of reason and morality, as they respect intercourse with those around us; and repulsive and anti-social, as respecting other nations. They needed reformation, therefore, in an eminent degree. " http://www.angelfire.com/co... - ChasMark

Chu -- in many ways, there is little difference between "anti-Zionists" like Mooser, "liberal Zionists" like hophmi and "Likud Zionists" like Obsidian. In their minds, they are all playing on the same team. None of them will admit that the Jewish establishment bears primary responsibility for the problems that Zionism (Jewish ethno-religious nationalism) has created. Their mindset is... more... - Sean McBride

Last week the Leveretts posted an article on their (old) blog, RaceforIran, in which they argued that the US required a "cultural revolution" in order to take the steps necessary to pursue an honest foreign policy, particularly toward Iran. Hillary Mann Leverett is Jewish, so it's impolitic to argue on her blog that what is required is not necessarily a "cultural revolution" but a... more... - ChasMark

Regarding Mooser who I like well enough 90% of the time....I really think he himself is so "individualistic" -- and yet does have an attachment to his religion or identity ---.that he has hard time accepting or rejects the idea that all Jews aren't by nature as much individualist'' as he himself is.. When people belong to or identify with.something meaningful to them they tend to think... more... - American

Mooser's main problem is his total lack of interest in what is going on in the real world -- and the relentless ethnic narcissism. I doubt that he can name a single serious book he has read on Mideast politics. I love comedy and humor, but one also needs to address the world in a serious way. Also my notion of "wit" is more in sync with Shakespeare, Voltaire, Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde or... more... - Sean McBride

I have just started reading through your somewhat acrimonious exchange with Mooser, Sean. Also with Dan Crowder and Keith piping in. All posters I usually like, and more often than not, agree with. But just in passing - this exchange should remind us of the difficulties encountered with Gilad Atzmon in the comments section and more recently, the shunning of Greta Berlin issue. It seems... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- what is amusing about Mooser's emotional response to this topic is that the subject of religious Zionism (both Jewish and Christian) is totally mainstream in Israeli, European and American scholarship -- and mainstream in the Israeli mainstream media. It's a hot and urgent topic. It is increasingly going to come under scrutiny and investigation in the European and American... more... - Sean McBride

Danaa -- "Anti-Zionists" like Mooser are desperately trying to spare the Jewish establishment (including the Jewish religious establishment) from any responsibility for Zionism and Israeli policies. This strikes me as a crazy project because it flies in the face of reality. The very terms "Jewish establishment" and "religious Zionism" send Mooser into a tizzy. Perhaps you are reading Mooser differently. - Sean McBride

Keith and Dan Crowther are natural allies for Mooser because they blame all the ills of the world on an amorphous "empire" -- much like Noam Chomsky. They use this "empire" to get the Israeli government and the Israel lobby off the hook for their actions. But the truth is, this "empire" is internally divided about Mideast politics in complex ways and is largely being dragged along by Likud and AIPAC. - Sean McBride

Give it up Sean....you want to go big and wide and complex......the Moosers and Dans and Keiths aren't/wont go there. But the bedfellows and dynamics of their gang bang on you are interesting..sort of like a "mob"..lol. From what I see Sean's theories on everything, particularly zios, Jewishness, Israel, future possibilities,religion, ethnos, ect are not "personal" to him, more like a... more... - American

Danaa, you really think it's the fact that some like me and MRW and Citizen and a few other aren't Jewish that is ...well, I guess you'd say... why we get difference responses to what we say? I am trying to think who has jumped on me for anything.....and I'm usually pretty blunt and straight foward...and all I remember is Mooser once or twice and the clown Bruce, besides the occasional... more... - American

American -- attempted gang bangs by mobs often have interesting outcomes. :) What the Israel lobby is trying to do to Chuck Hagel -- now that is an attempted gang bang by a hysterical mob. But Hagel has a few friends who understand a few things about this and that. - Sean McBride

American -- there is a term to describe the social process you are witnessing: self-ghettoization. Curling up into a ball. Turning all outsiders into enemies. It's a psychological syndrome that is really quite remarkable. - Sean McBride

American, yes, I absolutely think that the "not being jewish" is a big part of why some commenters can jumped on for minor perceived 'slights" they did not even intend to commit. Basically, anything that smacks of "America first" gets a funny reaction - especially from the ostensible anti-zionist crowd. It's very obvious to me. Deep underneath, you - and Sean and Citizen and a number of... more... - Danaa

Also American, I too believe that things are going to get worse - as israel tilts further to the right and the fig leaf over the true enterprise of the "settlements" becomes pathetically inadequate, the situation will become more uncomfortable for jewish Americans, especially as the neocon portion of their bretherns will go full throatedly to support and excuse whatever horrid action... more... - Danaa

Wise and pragmatic comments, Danaa. You are consistently clear-eyed, IMO. I haven't been following the Mooser/Sean to-and-fro (I'm traveling again) so what follows must be taken in that vein. But Mooser doesn't strike me as you guys are portraying him. Sure, about three or four years ago he accused me of being anti-semitic. I didn't respond to him, as I recall. But I examined myself for... more... - MRW_8

QUOTE. Also America, I too believe that things are going to get worse. . . the situation will become more uncomfortable for jewish Americans. END QUOTE. Yep. - MRW_8

Interesting point. When Hostage first appeared and was sousing everyone out, I thought at one point that he was an anti-semitic troll (early, early, early on) and I remember going after him. We had an online tousle. Boy, was I wrong. - MRW_8

The overriding fact is that MW is moderated. There are relatively very few people permitted onto the forum -- Phil/Adam control that. It has begun to appear to me that Phil is the casting director; he's writing/staging a play as it goes along. American, Mooser, Sean, MRW, Dan Crowther, Hostage, etc. are distinct characters whose personae are permitted to push the boundaries within their roles, but only so far. - ChasMark

ChasMark -- I can't think of any publication that isn't moderated or under editorial control of some kind -- that is what makes a publication a publication -- it has a point of view, a style, an agenda, etc. - Sean McBride

The more I see of Mooser's overexcited and humorless outrage about any discussion of the role of the Jewish establishment and Judaism in driving the policies of the Israel lobby and Zionism, the more I realize that he is not nearly as bright as I thought he was and that his "anti-Zionism" is at least as stridently ethnocentric as that of most "liberal Zionists" -- perhaps even more so.... more... - Sean McBride

Sean -- I can't think of any publication that is the non-Jewish version of MW and the plethora of publications & websites like it that discuss foreign policy. Most of the 'majors' have at very least Jewish gatekeepers -- C Span comes to mind. Any publication/website that has or seeks to achieve mainstream recognition and anything more than a very small niche in the marketplace of ideas... more... - ChasMark

You know -- what you say is largely true. But if you understand basic human social and historical dynamics, this is not a regime that will persist or survive. It will inevitably set into motion forces that counter and overwhelm it. That is how history works -- push too far in one direction and you will incite a pushback in the opposite direction -- like a pendulum. The Israel lobby has greatly overplayed its hand. Watch and see. - Sean McBride

ChasMark -- if you data mine the comment sections of the leading media outlets concerning Chuck Hagel, you will realize that the Israel lobby is being creamed -- seriously slaughtered. The anti-lobby comments are voluminous and incredibly angry. The pendulum is starting to swing back, with force. - Sean McBride

I don't read MW much anymore, so I can't comment on what's gone on. Either way, what difference does it make if Mooser, Phil, or anyone else is a Zionist or not, if he is an ethnocentric? Is it better if the smarter ethnocentrics are in the diaspora than in Israel? I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the Zionists and Israelis are the lesser problem. - Todd

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Sean McBride

The lively discussions and debates on Mondoweiss seem to have come to an end -- one hopes that this is only a temporary glitch.

December 19 - Comment - Like - Share

Again -- feel free to pursue discussions here with only very light moderation -- and your comments will be posted immediately, with no delay. - Sean McBride

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"very light moderation" -- comments pushing Nazi apologetics, white nationalism, etc. are not welcome. - Sean McBride

But an observation: Jewish nationalists have lost the moral high ground from which to complain about expressions of nationalism from other ethnic groups. But going down the path of ethnic nationalism in reaction to Jewish nationalism strikes me as being an enormous mistake. There is a better way. - Sean McBride

I don't know that there is any moral high ground at all on the issue of race or ethnicity in the U.S., at least if groups are held responsible for the actions of past generations. It's not likely that any group is going to willingly give up special privileges or power in the future, and the probability of a future of ongoing tit-for-tat special interest and ethnic/racial politics seems... more... - Todd

Todd -- we agree. This is the bottom line: either all Americans will agree to transcend ethnic politics, or we will all sink into the swamp of ethnic politics. Every ethnic group for itself. - Sean McBride

I agree also Todd. And it didn't "have to be like this'. I still blame politics and politicians primilary for pushing groups against each other by pandering to them separately --setting one group's interest against another groups' interest..showing favoritism to one and not the other----- instead of appealing to and talking.in terms of the common good and fairness to all. I think the... more... - American

MW has slowed down to a crawl.....are they on vacation or huddled in a pow wow some where? - American

"But going down the path of ethnic nationalism in reaction to Jewish nationalism strikes me as being an enormous mistake. There is a better way. - Sean McBride"...... I don't think we should go to 'ethnic nationalism " either.....it's against our democratic foundations. But we need to go something where it concerns the zionist.......I think we could to the Geo Washington style... more... - American

Sean - what generated this comment? alas, I have been too busy elsewhere to follow stuff or chime in lately. Am also suffering from a bout of dark foreboding, where I see everything laid out in front, and very little of it, if any, is good. I said before that one of the important purposes of free-wheeling debates - even on an issue as depressing as I/P (and it is depressing because we... more... - Danaa

American - "are they on vacation or huddled in a pow wow some where?" Inquiring minds will inquire....though I have a suspicion that moderators are in short supply at this time of the year, plus there's always a huge worry behind the scenes when the topic is the Lobby - now on full display against Chuck Hagel. Everyone knows everything and everyone who is anyone worries about the goys... more... - Danaa

LOL Danaa....I don't know why Phil continues to worry about what the goys know...We know everything!...this time I am actually glad to see the Lobby attacking Hagel......they are creating A LOT of enemies with this one....a lot of enemies.....drawing attention to themselves from quarters that wouldn't normally be interested in what Israel (it's supporters) are doing. - American

Danaa -- I've noticed a major slowdown during the last few weeks on Mondoweiss in the rate at which comments are being approved and posted -- a development that has reduced the level of intensity of conversations, discussions and debates, which usually proceed in near real time while one's thoughts are fresh and urgent. I doubt that any censorship is being applied -- it's probably just... more... - Sean McBride

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: MRW_8

Gilad Atzmon on Keith Barrett show, first hour, on MW, exilic culture of Jews, and Anna Balthzar. Learned some stuff I didn't know: http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/archive...

October 31 - Comment - Like - Share

MRW_8 - could you transcribe some of it? I'm afraid I don't have patience enough to listen to radio - people just don't speak fast enough for me....but I am interested in what Gilad had to say. Maybe just some highlights? - Danaa

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PWeiss admitted 4 years ago to Gilad that mondoweiss was not altruistic, but was rather motivated by pure tribal identiy interest. No surprise to me. Operation Release Valve. Something like that. Gilad groups him with other Jewish activists that oppose free speech when it comes to Jewish identity politics. Gilad says mondoweiss visciously slandered Greta Berlin. Mondo won't allow 9/11... more... - charles barwin

Judaism was created in babylon in exile. It's an exile identity, meant to exist in exile. Says Gilad. - charles barwin

Anna Baltzher motivated by tribal self interest as well. Says Palestinians who get cozy with Jewish Voices for Peace become dependent on them. Somebody let me know if he said anything interesting after that. I'm eehh sleepy. - charles barwin

People should be free to talk about 9/11 and the Holocaust/WW2. When Gilad learned about the Jewish atrocities of 48 and '67, he then realized that his parents were genocidal. [There's a word that doesn't get used enough in this context. If half of Iran starves to death from bs sanctions, a large number of the Community would be untroubled.] - charles barwin

Why would anyone want to obstruct a full and open investigation into 9/11 unless they fear where that investigation would lead? - Sean McBride

Very interesting. I have a hard time with Aztom's accent and he has hard time picking the exact English words he wants to use to describe certain things.. The summary for me was he said Tribalism, Tribalism,Tribalism......in everything.....is the core for Jews. Because of this they are good at organizing 'against' anything not good for them and 'for' anything that benefits the tribe,... more... - American

I tend to agree with Aztom in this....I think is is obvious that Jewish culture is more extremely 'monolithic' in it's tribalism than most other cultures. That's why we see fewer "renegades" in it than we see in American or other cultures. It's not a culture of "individualism". Only the most intelligent, rebellious of Jews raised in that culture, those whose minds have a curiosity and a sort of logical intuitiveness that makes them question and explore will break away from the group think. - American

"if Jewish culture was exposed as responsilbe for any of their past problems or for problems Israel or zionism or dispora Jews are currently causing. Bascially if it was exposed the jig would be up." And the charade is only made possible by domination of the media and advertising landscape. The FCC was created to censor Father Caughlin and others off the airwaves. History will probably... more... - charles barwin

Replace "International Jew" with "Jewish Nationalist", or "Zionist", and even Phil Weiss would concede that Henry Ford was not the cartoonish hater we've been raised to loathe. Like the role of American and Jewish bankers and economists in crippling Germany at the Treaty of Versailles at the end of WW1, setting the stage for a major backlash, another profitable World War, and the creation of Israel. - charles barwin

Barwin -- well, you couldn't keep a lid on your enthusiastic embrace of classical antisemitism -- seriously: Father Couglin? Henry Ford? Charles Lindbergh? These are the people upon whom you rely for intellectual guidance regarding Jews? Henry Ford's "The International Jew" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... was a major influence on Nazism and bears some blame for... more... - Sean McBride

Barwin -- you never did answer these two questions, which were asked twice: 1. What is your own ethnic and religious background? 2. Can you point us to any of your online posts from 2010? But it doesn't matter now -- please don't post here. Stormfront will welcome you with open arms -- but no doubt you are already a regular poster there. - Sean McBride

I'm a recovering philo-Semite like you, Sean. Maybe I've just had more time on my hands to de-program myself. Maybe in 3 days you'll post similar comments and call yourself a pioneer. My background: Paternal grandmother converted to Judaism, I spent quite a few friday nights at the Temple with an awesome congregation of universalist reform Jews who I later found out always were... more... - charles barwin

Barwin -- you're smart, you've read widely on this subject, you've connected some interesting dots, but you keep trying to use controversies about Israel as a pretext to back Jews as a group into a corner, relying on some of the same Judeophobic sources that instigated the Holocaust. Surely you are bright enough to realize that very few political forums, no matter how open-minded, are... more... - Sean McBride

I am hardly a philo-Semite -- I have many arguments with some Jewish groups and ideologies -- but I have a great deal of respect for many individual Jews. And I take to heart the Jewish ideal of healing and repairing the world (tikkun olam) -- which strikes me a superior value to setting it ablaze by inciting ethnic and religious hatred among groups. - Sean McBride

"Surely you are bright enough to realize that very few political forums, no matter how open-minded, are willing to provide a platform for your views. It's just not doable. You are going to create major headaches for any websites you get near." Yeah, it's a bitch. I'll spare you my research on the Holocaust, the Bolshevik Revolution, the Red Scare/McCarthyism, the motivations behind the... more... - charles barwin

"I am hardly a philo-Semite" "I take to heart the Jewish ideal of healing and repairing the world (tikkun olam) -- which strikes me a superior value to setting it ablaze by inciting ethnic and religious hatred among groups." If only tikkun olam was a real, dominant value of Jewish culture, now and historically, your philo-semitism would be justified.Full text: Jewish History, Jewish... more... - charles barwin

This sums up organized Jewish culture: http://www.ynetnews.com/article... "As the relations between [US and USSR] grew warmer, the Jewish American lobbyists amped up the pressure on Washington in an attempt to aid their Soviet brothers. One of Nixon's advisors, Leonard Garment, reported he was flooded with letters and phone calls from Jews and asked for... more... - charles barwin

" Jews. And I take to heart the Jewish ideal of healing and repairing the world (tikkun olam) -- which strikes me a superior value to setting it ablaze by inciting ethnic and religious hatred among groups." That's an odd statement to make, since Jewish ethnic tribalism is a major force threatening to set the world ablaze. I don't think Tikkun Olam means much. At least the CZs I know actually go to places like Haiti, Panama, Nigeria and other places to dig wells and build houses. - Todd

Krauss has this interesting comment up at MW: "Or take Michael Steinhardt, the brain behind Birthright. Who plainly admitted that Zionism for him was something he came to later in his life since he was a devout atheist(‘and feeling guilty about it’) and since he couldn’t start believing in a higher power, he turned to Zionism. There’s something to be said for ex-left wing Jewish men... more... - charles barwin

Well, let me inject some balance between Sean and barwin. Starting with Henry Ford. Ford isn't 'quite" the anti semite he is made out to be. His main aim was at the 'international" Jew--the same ones/types we ourselves are complaining about in the Isr-Zionism-US-I/P issue...iow, those of the zionist "World Wide Jewish Nation" concept. Ford's take on the Jewish tribal culture behind this... more... - American

According to Herbert Hoover in "Freedom Betrayed," Hitler was highly motivated by the determination that never again would Germans be starved into submission, as they were 1915-1919. 800,000 German civilians died of starvation (affirmed by Edwin Black in "Transfer Agreement"). That determination was behind Hitler's quest for the fertile lands of the Ukraine. Also according to Hoover, Hitler had NO intentions of tangling with France, and was positively disposed toward Britain. - ChasMark

As American wrote, Hitler was adamantly opposed to Bolshevism. Post-1917 Russian revolution, Bolsheviks -- most of them Jews -- poured into Germany. As well, Polish Jews migrated to Germany post-WWI. The presence of such a large immigrant population in a nation recovering from starvation and straining under unprecedented financial burdens and staggering unemployment -- 75% by some... more... - ChasMark

@Danaa, I can't type well enough to do a transcript of an hour show in any reasonable time, and therefore don't have the time. (Would take two days.) Barwin got most of them, although without all the nuances. Atzmon [American, this is how it's spelled] makes the point that the Jewish religious books were written in exile, which I didn't know and thought interesting. Also, his tag line... more... - MRW_8

@Sean, I agree with Atzmon. The Holocaust should be treated as an historical event, and discussed as such. All questions should be allowed. I don't agree that discussing H facts that put Jews in a bad light is dispositive of anti-semitism or anti-Jewishness. It just is, if true. So what. It was wartime. So some Jews were angels, fine. So some Jews were the worse stereotypes of... more... - MRW_8

Barwin -- are you BillWalker on Firedoglake? - Sean McBride

ChasMark and Charles Barwin: can you name some thinkers, authors or personalities that you would describe as unacceptably anti-Semitic or Judeophobic? So far you both give the impression that you are supporters of Adolf Hitler, Charles Lindbergh, Father Coughlin, Henry Ford, the Holocaust, Kevin MacDonald, Nazi Germany, Stormfront, white nationalism, etc. You think that "the Jews" are the root of all the evil in the world. - Sean McBride

I agree with MRW that discussing the holocaust as a historical event is acceptable, even delving into some details should be allowed. I don't understand how or why inquiry got to be so verboten. The world knows without doubt that ''it happened'', that the nazis selected Jews and others to imprison,use as slave labor and deliberately kill or let die of starvation and disease. There isn't... more... - American

All historical topics should be fully open for discussion and debate all the time. It is incredible that anyone would even think about censoring open investigation into *all* historical subjects. But it must also be acknowledged that special interest groups often manipulate historical data for propagandistic ends. But the best way to refute them is through open and free debate. - Sean McBride

What is strange, and what captures one's attention, is that many pro-Israel activists have tried to link skepticism about the 9/11 official story with skepticism about the Holocaust official story. Why are they doing that? The 9/11 official story is absurd on its face -- so much so that leading members of the official 9/11 Commission have ridiculed and dismissed their own report. Why... more... - Sean McBride

From what I understand, Raul Hilberg's well respected research determined that there was not a "Final Solution" plan for the Jews after all. Which brings into question the motives of his predecessors who claimed otherwise, and promoted a narrative of Jews as exceptional victims of WW2. The Holocaust. We know that the lampshades and human soap presented at Buchenwald were fake, put there... more... - charles barwin

The KGB for 30 years or so insisted that 4 million Jews were exterminated at Aushwitz. This was later reduced to 1 million. History is written by the intelligence agencies of the winners. During the war, the US placed news articles promoting the idea that Hitler was gay. They had every motivation to make him look as bad as possible after the war. Zionists had their own reasons. The main... more... - charles barwin

We know that Zionist leaders collaborated with Hitler on the Transfer Agreement of '33. We know they pressured western countries to turn away Jewish refugees during the Evian Conference of '38. "A single cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland", said Izaak Greenbaum. Chaim Weizmann, the first president of Israel, made this Zionist policy very explicit: "The hopes of... more... - charles barwin

All.....I think where the holocaust, WWII discussions-- talk of all the activities of groups around the war and the conditions in Germany at time--- arouses suspicions of anti semitism is when some appear to be 'excusing' the results of Hitler or Nazism. The way I see it, how Nazism arose and the conditions that created it and WWII are or should be a 'separate discussion' from the... more... - American

I came across the claim in a documentary that the Gestapo created such paranoia among Germans that 1 million Germans (non-Jewish) were sent to concentration camps due to neighbors and acquaintances informing on one another for political reasons. That's possible in a nation of 70+ million under a totalitarian dictatorship. I don't know the scale, but similar actions took place in the... more... - Todd

I am all for open study of the holocaust, but I see no reason to discuss the issue with Zionists or most Jews in regards to Israel. Doing so only muddies the waters and gives them the only weapon they have. The first step in taking the holocaust away from those who distort and abuse it is to take the holocaust away from them. - Todd

Thomas Dodd, Nuremberg prosecutor “You know how I have despised anti-Semitism. You know how strongly I feel toward those who preach intolerance of any kind. With that knowledge — you will understand when I tell you that this staff is about seventy-five percent Jewish. Now my point is that the Jews should stay away from this trial — for their own sake. For — mark this well — the charge... more... - charles barwin

Well now, the MW charge that there is something anti semitic about what Thomas Dodd said or warned on does REALLY piss me off. Dodd is clearly saying and warning against just what happened when Jews were all over Nuremberg --making WWII ALL about the Jews and nothing else.......that was what he was warning the Jews against. And as we see today in Jewish-non Jewish discussions on WWII,... more... - American

I'm sure there are many other religions/cults/ethnic groups/organizations inclined toward what might be called Acquired Situational Malignant Narcissism. "The malignant narcissist differs from narcissistic personality disorder in that the malignant narcissist derives higher levels of psychological gratification from accomplishments over time (thus worsening the disorder). Because the... more... - charles barwin

@Charles Barwin, FYI, all of the info you gave in the last five or six of your posts in this thread we discussed on MW years ago. A lot, too, before the archives started (7/2009). So for those of us who've been on MW for years, and many of us here have been, it's not news. I mean, we all did it to death. Discussing it is why Blankfort was banned and Sean created this Friendfeed thing. Blankfort was assiduous in discussing Lenni Brenner's work, and quoting from it. - MRW_8

@Danaa. Oh yeah, Danaa, in addition to the above, Atzmon said that anyone who wants to understand fascism has to read Mein Kampf. He said that you cannot logically discuss fascism without reading it. - MRW_8

We could discuss the mental disorders of a lot of groups but I am more interested in the effects and having people recongize the effects of these groups. That's why MW labeling Dodd anti semitic pisses me off. I did my last college history paper on the 'Moral Implications of the Nuremberg Trials' So I know a bit about it. My conclusion back then was that the trials and the laws that... more... - American

@American, I agree with you about Dodd. I was snapped out of sleep when I heard Dodd being trashed on NPR a few months ago as an anti-semite for what he wrote in his journals, and it pissed me off as well. I knew full well that unless someone was going to refute it online that this info was going to stay in NPR's public record. During the Kosovo War, I communicated by mail with one of... more... - MRW_8

MRW..what I take from it is that 'special interest' mixing with law and formulating of laws, particularly universal laws, produces just what we have gotten---hypocrisy. Unless 'special interest' becomes a punishable crime itself it will always be that way. - American

@Sean, we may look back at Henry Ford and call him an anti-semite by our standards, but times were vastly different then. The British Empire reigned supreme around the world. Many rich Americans affected British speech patterns, and identified with them; no different than the powerful drawn like honey to NYC and DC today. The British upper crust were virulently anti-semitic, including... more... - MRW_8

MORE: In addition, you need to understand that Jews in England occupied high positions in British society before Black Monday or Sunday in Russia (1905? 1906?) happened. They were the bankers, judges, and aristocrats, and enjoyed a reputation as uber folk. The last thing they wanted was an underclass that could redefine them. Further, they did not want revolutionaries to upset the... more... - MRW_8

Interesting, MRW. I've heard that the Warburgs (Rothschild allies, ran US and German central banks simultaneously) at least the ones in Germany, at first didn't support the creation of Israel because it would take away much of their power as philanthropic leaders of The Jews. I've also heard that the or an early Zionist plan was to move the Eastern European unwashed Jews to Palestine to... more... - charles barwin

Anyone here familiar with the published work of highly controversial academic Dr. Kevin MacDonald ? I'm thinking especially of his "Culture of Critique". - Lynn Ertell

I was just reading his wiki page, and despite wikipedia's close relationship with the Israeli government and the Lobby, I was put off by McDonald's apparent white separatism, even though it's probably true that Jewish nationalists promoted non-white immigration the the US to weaken organization in the host country(ies). I'm open to the depressing possibility that human societies will... more... - charles barwin

@charles barwin. There's a third alternative, and it starts with Americans understanding their monetary system and what it means in terms of real prosperity. The ignorance, currently, is appalling. The willingness to understand it is non-existent at the moment because people don't realize how they've been led down the garden path and lied to. http://www.modernmoneyandpubli... - MRW_8

I've heard of McDonald, but not read his writings. However according to this ....http://www.splcenter.org/get-inf.......... McDonald admits he doesn't like Jews -or has 'come to' dislike Jews .......so I would be dubious about his so called scholarship on the subject...hard to be scientific and objective if you don't like the subjects of your study. - American

I'm not sure if the SPLC is much of a source. - Todd

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Sean McBride

Is the Mondoweiss comments section dead in the water?

October 27 - Comment - Like - Share

That is my current impression. It looks like Mondoweiss is systematically killing off its most important asset. It is impossible to conduct a serious conversation there under the new restrictive, vague and arbitrary rules. - Sean McBride

39 more comments

Who exactly are the moderators? There really should be full transparency regarding their background, political agenda, level of education, etc. How many of them are knowledgeable enough about Mideast politics to hold up their end of the conversations they are moderating? Quite a few Mondoweiss commenters have advanced degrees from leading universities. I wonder how much longer they will... more... - Sean McBride

Perhaps Phil's best move would be to follow the example of Andrew Sullivan and turn off the comments altogether. Just focus entirely on his own views and analysis. - Sean McBride

For conversations in the comments section to work, they need to flow fast, freely and furiously, at the speed of thought, with no obstructions, slowdowns or censorship based on inconsistent or muddled standards. - Sean McBride

Sean, Killing off the comments section may well be the purpose of the new policy. Choking off the canal through which most of the best conversations flow is just the first step. next is the drying off of the tributaries. The comments on the Change in Policy have been turned off a day and half ago and I am sure that your conversation with Bruce on the Ellis thread has been carefully... more... - Danaa

My newest theory is that Phil, in particular, may be getting a bit tired of having to serve as the linchpin for a debate that he himself called for but really is not, by temperament, inclined to lead. I to think he has certain sensitivities and even a kind of frailness - qualities which, together with his obvious courage, and flurries of insight, endeared him to enough people out there... more... - Danaa

And one more word, this time a question: I along with a multitude of others found the conversations in the MW comment threads invaluable and a great tool to become aware of opinions, impressions and lines of thought out there that I would have never been able to acquire from just the main posts. If the MW platform will indeed be knocked down as now seems likely, could you suggest an... more... - Danaa

MW has the great intellect Bruce Wolman, now, directing traffic and thought, and pinning anti-semitism stickers on the goys he doesn't like, except for Danaa, he's gone after her as well because she's a little uppity. (You'll notice how he grovels when he knows the commenter is Jewish, with a soupcon of insiderism, or the coy patting of Mooser's head.) MW ought to be in heaven: this is... more... - MRW_8

Danaa -- your insights about what is going on at MW are, as usual, smart and intuitive, and perfectly aligned with my own. If Phil is under any unusual pressure, part of that pressure might be not be to discuss the pressure -- that's how the game is played. It is unlikely that Richard Goldstone would dare to discuss the pressure that was (and continues to be) applied on him. - Sean McBride

Danaa -- regarding Bruce Wolman: he is one of the weakest minds among the commenters on MW, not remotely in the class of a few dozen other people who have acquired deep knowledge of Mideast politics. He is one of the last people one would think of as being an authoritative arbiter of anything going on MW or on Mideast discussions going on anywhere. I just saw him dismiss Grace Halsell,... more... - Sean McBride

MRW -- I think it would be perfectly reasonable to request some transparency in the moderation process. Who exactly are the moderators? What are their backgrounds and political agendas? Can we see their past writings? Do they possess the qualifications to moderate discussions by people who may be much more knowledgeable about some subjects than they are? - Sean McBride

Bruce -- if you are reading this, yes we are back into confrontational mode. :) Your empty-headed and mean-spirited remark on Grace Halsell did the trick. Too many of your posts are half-assed. But feel free to express yourself here without moderation or delays in posting. - Sean McBride

Danaa -- I don't know of any other forum on Mideast politics that has collected such a set of interesting minds as Mondoweiss. But that era at MW is apparently now over -- deliberately destroyed by people like Bruce. I don't have any immediate ideas about how to get another forum of similar quality going -- these things just seem to happen mysteriously, to materialize out of the blue.... more... - Sean McBride

Danaa -- for the time being, this forum may be sufficient for speedily jotting down thoughts that can easily be edited at any time in the future, for exchanging ideas and pointers, and for engaging in *real* conversations in real time with no obstructions or impediments. My main complaint about this software: one can't format paragraphs. (One way to handle the paragraph issue: create a separate comment for each paragraph.) - Sean McBride

All------I have experienced this before on Steve Clemon's 'The Washington Note' blog when he was director of the New American Foundation before he went to The Altantic. Steve, being a real 'insider' to both the Washington political policy and social circles, had the best articles and coverage on politics and policy available, with the most free wheeling, uncensored and open comments... more... - American

American - this is a very interesting story on Clemons' blog comment history. It does indeed sound like a classic case where a free wheeling comment section populated by bright minds is effectively hobbled by the zio gang. Reminds me of what happened to the Cif comment pages on the Guardian (see my reply to Sean on the now closed "Changes to Comment Policy) thread. I have seen attempts... more... - Danaa

Let me also say another reason why MW can't get it right. MW features artcles of Israeli cruelty and evilness to Palestines that makes any normal and decent person furious and despise Israel and despise anyone who supports Israel. It deliberately '"inflames" our emotions on Israel and I-firsters. That elicits critiques on 'how in gawd's name' could 'the Jewish" State--the society of the... more... - American

American - your suggestion of a concerted action to "spread" the power of the informed commentariat across the MSM and alternative media is excellent. I suppose it would be something like the Giyus tool used by zios with the difference that Giyus usually just brings a hoards of shrill know-nothing trolls to disrupt a debate with irrelevance whereas you are talking (I think) about... more... - Danaa

Danna...exactly. Put on your thinking cap and see what you can come up with. - American

I still fantasize - foolishly perhaps - about undermining the Ziobot mentality from deep within the death star. Phil Munger/Edward Teller mentioned at myfiredoglake that an Israeli former ziobot professional web troll wrote him an e-mail thanking him for opening her eyes, and she resigned from her troll job with the IMF or Ministry of Truth or whatever. Millions of Israeli Jews in the... more... - charles barwin

Danaa.."Personally I feel that the main difficulty is that the commenting public - lays and professionals - do not have the uniting principle zios and Jewish tribalists do, since opinions and interests come from many different viewpoints"......That is also a point. What I have observed though in ms press and msm boards it that the publics main concern is what Israel and I-firstdom is... more... - American

American -- thanks for sharing your inside knowledge of goings-on on Steve Clemons' blog -- and, Danna, for doing the same regarding the Guardian (I read your comment on the Guardian situation on MW with great interest). And, yes, the very same dirty tactics were just used to inflict major damage on Mondoweiss. It's obvious that "the lobby" is conducting these kinds of disruption... more... - Sean McBride

"And, yes, the very same dirty tactics were just used to inflict major damage on Mondoweiss. It's obvious that "the lobby" is conducting these kinds of disruption operations worldwide..Sean" Sean, just to make clear a difference. In the case of TWN it was the Zionist (for Israel) who attacked TWN. Mondo is a different story. On MW it is the so called anti zionist or liberal zionist,... more... - American

One notices that some liberal Jewish critics of Israel in many forums are adamant about maintaining ironclad control of the debate about Israel. It's a very ethnocentric and tribalistic approach to politics that can create considerable social friction. Americans from every ethnic and religious background have every right and obligation to express their views about American foreign and... more... - Sean McBride

barwin......You are way too much into "curing the Jews" of their disease. The same way some of them are way too much into "curing the gentiles'' of their anti semitism disease. All roads concerning what you object to about what orgainized Jews are doing lead to Washington and congress....that is the ultimate target....they can change it thru political action...you can't change it by enforced mental counseling of Jews. - American

American -- thanks for taking on Barwin. I am trying to give Barwin and ChasMark a fair opportunity to express themselves, but the term "Jewish Supremacy" popped up in Barwin's last comment. Are we all on the same page about taking a strong stand against generalized attacks on "the Jews"? There really is no room for Judeophobia in reasonable discussions about Mideast politics. Forums like Stormfront traffic in that kind of thing -- let the bigots vent there. - Sean McBride

Sean...I will take on any real anti semitic intentions or expression made by anyone just as I would anti black or etec statements. I dont object to the term Jewish Supremacy ---"IF" it is being used to apply to a certain group or a certain indidivual(s) because we also use the term White Supremist to apply to their mirror twins also. But all the world wide conspiracy theory stuff on Jews just makes my eyes glaze over and I skip it and haven't read a 1/10 of it and don't even want to. - American

Sean, we're all fairly sophisticated enough to deal with it, and handle it. I wouldn't worry about it. As Hostage said about de Klerk, doesn't matter what he believed, he had some good ideas to add to the mix to fix the situation. Besides, gatekeeper Wolman is exercised enough about it. Let him do it. :-) - MRW_8

Whatever guys. Like most Congressmen don't already know the score, and just need to be told about it. Like they don't already resent being forced to stand and clap for Netanyahu as he re-writes US foreign policy and undermines our national security in the process. Like the Israel lobby in the US doesn't work with the lobby in Canada or England or France or Germany or Australia. Like... more... - charles barwin

sean mcbride-the trouble at mdw started with the greta berlin sting-you yourself said she was anti semetic,but now that the boat has landed all has gone quiet on all fronts even at mondi - Ester Free

Char B.....The point is we already know about various Jews associated with various greedy or unethical financial and political dealings. But it's not really germane to the Isr-US-I/P problem we are into and discussing today. And by your presenting every single thing any Jew ever did or was ever involved in the past it comes across as a past and present and on going Jewish conspiracy... more... - American

Barwin: 1. What is your own ethnic and religious background? 2. Can you point us to any of your online posts from 2010, with URLs? - Sean McBride

I also agree with Danaa's take on Phil. Phil has a conscience but he also is not the kind of person for too rowdy of a fight. It's not his temperament or nature. And I think although his actually realizes the higher cause of I/P he is so tied to his identity that he occasionally becomes insecure or concerned about what MW coverage of I/P is eliciting and then he takes flight back into... more... - American

The problem with Wolman is that he hates gentiles, genuine sleaze-ball hate, and he thinks that it's an entitled position bolstered by the Holocaust and, ergo, his breathtaking right to command sources, or in one instance, "scholarly" references from heathen gentiles. The biggest non-scholar on the MW comment board demands scholarly references. Oh yeah, he's gunning after me, and I can get him swinging from the chandelier in rage, but I would prefer he remain ignorant of what I know. ;-) ;-) ;-) - MRW_8

Some day we'll have a Jewish blogger/leader like Phil, but more evolved. I always hear there's tons of these people, a majority even. I don't want to be outside the basic standards of humanitarianism. But god damn, can we get a safe place where Jews and everybody else can congregate and agree that Jewish parents teaching superiority is problematic? I've heard that Jim Crow culture lost... more... - charles barwin

" I dont object to the term Jewish Supremacy ---"IF" it is being used to apply to a certain group or a certain indidivual(s) because we also use the term White Supremist to apply to their mirror twins also. But all the world wide conspiracy theory stuff on Jews just makes my eyes glaze over and I skip it" You mean you're not actually talking about every single white person when you use... more... - charles barwin

MRW...I just saw your take down of Bruce ...rotflmao. He is such a lightweight----what he does is make some 'pronouncement" like he expects whatever he says to be taken as gospel and then has a hissy fit when he's called out with real evidence and responds with sarcasm and insults. Total phony ......doesn't even do the most basic homework....and use Wiki as a source on things... more... - American

So American, writing and calling to your congress critter is a great idea. You know what's a waaay greater idea? Hundreds or thousands of phone calls from newly informed voters. - charles barwin

C barwin..."and then you quickly admit that the world wide conspiracy was patently obvious all along but we're sick of talking about it."....(Sigh).....no I did not admit to any world wide conspiracy by Jews...ONE LAST TIME.......there have been thousands upon thousands of 'conspiracies" thru time, political conspiracies, business and financial empire conspiracies, a conspiracy to... more... - American

Who else is actively trying to trigger war with Iran, at American expense in life and treasure, which would hammer the already fragile global economy? Who did 9/11? Who did Obama and Romney mention 31 times? Who got 27 standing ovations in congress, while re-writing US foreign policy. Who is pushing for an internet kill switch? It's Joe Lieberman. Who's running the Fed? Goldman Sachs?... more... - charles barwin

But yeah I'll just take a break from the blog. - charles barwin

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: MRW_8

Gilad Atzmon weighs in on Berlin and Wright. Makes good points. Expresses disappointment in Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada. — http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012...

October 20 - Comment - Like - Share

I read that article by Aztom and then I spent an hour + hunting up other activist who have been kicked out for anti semitism........I now have no hesitation in saying no matter what Berlin is or isn't---- there are definely individuals WITHIN the Palestine movements ----call them the oh so concerned----that are there to ruin it by slandering the most prominent and valuable members. This pattern is a PATTERN. - American

49 more comments

No shit, sherlock. ;-) - MRW_8

MRW....I've been following little Beka Wolf's own tweets...very revealing.....I see what she is up to now. - American

pattern = well-planned and coordinated op - Sean McBride

Take a look at some Bekah's tweets.......I could make something out of quite a few of them;.. 1)for example her accusing 14 Friends of Palestine ( a much more grown up acting group than FG) of holding a Israel hate fest at Berkeley --- 2) the one where she says accusing zionist of aiding the holocaust is anti semitic because it means Jews are lying about the holocaust,--- 3)the one... more... - American

Here is Bekah Wolf's Twitter feed:https://twitter.com/BekahWolf - Sean McBride

And here is my Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/seanmcb... Thank God there is so much interesting stuff going on in the world that has nothing to do with Mideast politics! :) This is my main Friendfeed feed: https://friendfeed.com/seanmcb... - Sean McBride

American wrote: "the one where she says accusing zionist of aiding the holocaust is anti semitic because it means Jews are lying about the holocaust" ... Recall the comment of Dana Karon in a Peter Beinart video on Mondoweiss Dec 2011. Dana said, "I went to school in Israel. We were lied to ..." She explained how textbooks, maps, teaching etc. all conceal the fact that Palestinians... more... - ChasMark

I doubt truegreta is either Greta or her niece. Certainly, not a niece; that makes no sense: why would a niece continue to dig her aunt's hole? As Walt writes in the FP piece, the standard tactic is to "discredit and/or marginalize...and to distract." Look what happens every time Bruce Wolman shows up in the MW comments section? Swings his dick around like a conductor's baton, and... more... - MRW_8

"The mass murder of 5-6 million people is not something to be discussed lightly?" Oh jesus, give me a break. Genrikh Yagoda murdered 10 million Russians in the 20th C as the creator of the NKVD and the gulags. He was Jewish, and so were his deputies who rounded people up and killed them. Sever Plocker (Ynet) called him one of the greatest murderers of modern times.... more... - MRW_8

Dan, was the countercurrents article by William James Martin mentioned by Greta? Is this what is at the heart of this? - MRW_8

The reason Hostage knows as much as he does is because he was a military lawyer involved in international law. He was a sausage maker, and keeps up with his old friends and colleagues. Wolman is going to be the arbiter of who gets to comment? - MRW_8

Interesting: I posted a pointer to that William James Martin article on Mondoweiss in early July of this year: article; William James Martin; The Zionist-Nazi Collaboration; Dissident Voice; July 8, 2012 http://dissidentvoice.org/2012... No one on Mondoweiss questioned any of its basic facts and assertions. Here are the two comments in question: http://mondoweiss.net/profile... - Sean McBride

OMIGOD. That's what this is about? The footnotes in that article contain books written by Jewish historians and, obviously, serious academics. Half of what Martin writes is in Edwin Black's The Transfer Agreement! This debacle is worse than I thought. - MRW_8

I am extending an open challenge to Bekah Wolf to debate the Martin article in any online forum. Since the article is rock solid on its facts and documentation this is not a risky move on my part. :) Main point: one can't begin to understand Likud Zionism without understanding early Revisionist Zionism and its ideological, attitudinal and emotional affinity with Nazism and messianic... more... - Sean McBride

So far Bruce has shown no ability to engage with intellectual force on any issue. He's a lightweight -- and a typical liberal Zionist. - Sean McBride

Oh, Dan. C'mon. ;-) "he knows he can't assassinate his [Hostage's] character because it will come off bad." Speak the truth. Hostage is Jewish. He gets an automatic pass from Wolman. - MRW_8

I agree with you, Sean. "Main point: one can't begin to understand Likud Zionism without understanding early Revisionist Zionism and its ideological, attitudinal and emotional affinity with Nazism and messianic ethnic nationalism in general." My three much older Jewish mentors (ages of my father and grandfather) in Manhattan TOLD ME EXACTLY THE SAME THING when I was waxing lyrical about how wonderful the Holocaust Museum was going up. They ripped me a new asshole. - MRW_8

And what Wolman doesn't know is that one of my mentors was a guy the Israeli heavyweights made a beeline to whenever they came to NYC. I was physically there many times when they did. 'Le Tout Israel', you could say. I've been steeped in this shit for over 30 years...specifically, during the rise of M. Begin and his second election. - MRW_8

I have to question Adam and Phil for allowing this putz to hijack their site. Wassup wit dat. - MRW_8

Dan, Wolman is not an excellent writer, although he claims its his metier. He drones on and on. Can't make a point quickly or adroitly. He's as boring as Lowenstein (Jennifer), and about as Zio-Blind. They both speak Zionese, which is effrayant, as we say in French. They both need some of Mooser's +15. - MRW_8

Re: Bruce -- many words, very little substantive content. His métier, as we say in French, is obfuscation, diversion and evasion, not crisp and concrete engagement. Gilad Atzmon is a much superior writer -- he actually has something real and urgent to say, original and forceful thoughts to communicate. Defending the conventional and institutional line on policy issues is not an activity that attracts lively and energetic minds. Strong minds break eggs on a regular basis. - Sean McBride

with respect, Sean, and dan, the William James Martin article gets off on the wrong foot in the first sentence. Zionism and Nazism did NOT "arise in tandem" . Zionism is far older than Nazism; the agenda of zionism is far different from Nazism, zionism being aggressive from the get-go and covetous of that which belonged to others, while Nazism was defensive; sought to recoup that which... more... - ChasMark

Hey, I got an idea (h/t ChasMark). Sean, why don't you and William James Martin take Bekah Wolf on? Hell, add Gilad Atzmon. - MRW_8

ChasMark: did you post pro-Nazi propaganda a few months ago here under the handle "Landon"? - Sean McBride

Many leading Zionists themselves declare that Zionism originates in ancient Judaism and the Torah -- no doubt they know what they are talking about -- it's their movement -- they define it as they will. - Sean McBride

Regarding any apologetics for Nazism: are we all agreed that that should be beyond the pale in serious discussions about Mideast politics? Most Germans themselves would be appalled by and strongly condemn such propaganda efforts. They have acknowledged their errors and sins and moved on. - Sean McBride

I think there is a good probability that elements of the Israel lobby are trying to inject extreme anti-Jewish and pro-Nazi rhetoric into Israel-critical discussion forums with the aim of polluting them, discrediting them and taking them down. It's standard operating procedure in dirty politics. Be on the alert. Don't be taken in. - Sean McBride

"Many leading Zionists themselves declare that Zionism originates in ancient Judaism and the Torah" But they're wrong. It's just poppycock. Zionism grew out of the onset of nation states in Europe. And this is explanatory as well: http://www.acjna.org/acjna... - MRW_8

"Regarding any apologetics for Nazism: are we all agreed that that should be beyond the pale in serious discussions about Mideast politics?" You get into subjective definitions of apologetics and Wolmanism. There is no way you can discuss the rise of Nazism without understanding the feelings of ordinary people reacting to the Treaty of Versailles and what it wrought between the wars.... more... - MRW_8

Sean -- QUOTE "I think there is a good probability that elements of the Israel lobby are trying to inject extreme anti-Jewish and pro-Nazi rhetoric into Israel-critical discussion forums with the aim of polluting them, discrediting them and taking them down. It's standard operating procedure in dirty politics. Be on the alert. Don't be taken in." END QUOTE. Correctamundo. - MRW_8

From ChasMark - this is a highly problematic passage: "Zionism is far older than Nazism; the agenda of zionism is far different from Nazism, zionism being aggressive from the get-go and covetous of that which belonged to others, while Nazism was defensive; sought to recoup that which formerly belonged to German rather than take by force the property of another. Nazism was a reaction to... more... - Danaa

"This passage is, in fact, such a classic that I must agree with Sean that we may have a provocateur in our midst - yet again"..Danaa......yep, I agree, sounds very familiar. If not word for word, then very close to it. - American

""I think there is a good probability that elements of the Israel lobby are trying to inject extreme anti-Jewish and pro-Nazi rhetoric into Israel-critical discussion forums with the aim of polluting them, discrediting them and taking them down"..sean. That's a given, been seeing them do that at every site I ever visited on this. - American

Danaa -- thanks for sharing your impressions -- I think you are right on the money. Even if ChasMark sincerely holds these beliefs, I have a real problem with providing a platform for them and scrambling them up with critiques of Israel. (Thanks also to American, MRW_8 and Dan for your remarks.) - Sean McBride

At The Treaty of Versailles the Allies (England, France, USA) imposed draconian war reparations on Germany. Germany's deficit spending was running at 50% of GDP annually, 4-5% monthly. They spent the deficit to buy gold and currencies on the open market to pay the Allies, not on infrastructure, healthcare and the like. It caused hyperinflation in 1923. The day they stopped that policy... more... - MRW_8

MORE: "This is the enormous danger of this 1%-99% split, or Romney's 47% who don't count bit." And the enormous danger of what Paul Ryan is advocating by gutting the social safety nets of Social Security and Medicare. He's helped produce a profound meanness in this country which will have consequences, (and if we go to war with Iran, the Jews and Israel are going to be... more... - MRW_8

dan wrote: "I think as Sean has stressed many times that it's best to interpret things organically as opposed to viewing them in a strictly cause-effect relationship." It's unclear what you mean by "organically." Is it meant to suggest an affirmation of the Goldhagen thesis, that is, that there was something inherently evil in the German psyche that brought about 'the H'? To my mind,... more... - ChasMark

Sean thinks information that is sympathetic to the German people is the product of a "provocateur." An original thought, a position I would not have imagined, but I suppose there's a logic behind it: for the last 85+ most of the West has been taught that Jews are the eternal victims (never causal agents) and that Germans, and later Arabs and now Iranians, are monsters intent on "killing... more... - ChasMark

I suppose I can understand Sean's fear of the perspectives I write about -- we have been raised on certain beliefs and narratives for all our lives; the First Commandment has become, Thou Shalt Not speak any inconvenient truths about the Jewish people. I say, If all men are created equal, then the truth about all people should be told equally. I was musing one day about old testament... more... - ChasMark

ChasMark: did you post here a few months ago under the handle "Landon"? - Sean McBride

I don't see a reason to bring the Holocaust into the discussion, because doing so just provides cover for Israel and her supporters, needlessly confuses the situation and puts the people who should not be under the microscope under the microscope. I don't think that scholars and historians are going to solve what is a legal, intelligence and criminal issue. I would even guess that... more... - Todd

Todd, I think the etiology of the wars in Europe, especially the second war, should be examined very closely. Of particular concern is the Jewish Declaration of War on Germany beginning in March 1933. This is important for two major reasons: 1. In the talk by Nicole Eustace on the War of 1812 that I linked above, Eustace makes the point that the War of 1812 was the first war that was... more... - ChasMark

I'm not a provocateur but I am trying to provoke a discussion -- not a fight - about controversial topics. Here's the wikipedia take on Goldhagen: QUOTE: Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust (1996) is a book by American writer Daniel Goldhagen that argues that the vast majority of ordinary Germans were as the title indicates "willing executioners" in the... more... - ChasMark

Sean wrote: "Regarding any apologetics for Nazism: are we all agreed that that should be beyond the pale in serious discussions about Mideast politics? Most Germans themselves would be appalled by and strongly condemn such propaganda efforts. They have acknowledged their errors and sins and moved on." A. If discussion of Nazism is no longer fashionable, why are establishment-approved... more... - ChasMark

ChasMark......There is a difference in blaming Nazism and blaming ALL Germans...most people realize that. I don't now exactly what you are trying to prove or say. It looks like you are trying to blame zionism for nazism in order to exeronate Germany. If you do that then you might as well blame nazism, as in the holocaust excuse, for what zionism has done in Palestine to exeronate Israel... more... - American

Re ChasMark: notice how way off topic the conversation has gone. This thread by MRW_8 was about the Gilad Atzmon opinion piece and the issues surrounding the Greta Berlin witch hunt. I think the Nazis-were-not-all-that-bad comment he offered defines what diversion and obfuscation is all about, and that must be exactly the purpose. Kudos to everyone who refused to get sucked in...we... more... - Danaa

ChasMark...o.k. I see what are doing in that reply to Todd..but you are taking it too far. You are linking the zionist politicing of 1930's to the zionist politicing of today. There is ''some'' truth in that. But then you go and somehow morph from that into the WWII being 'mass murder'...WELL...all wars are mass murder. 25 million Russians died, 75 million altogether died. And yes it... more... - American

Dan, I was surprised to learn that Apple is building its new donut-style main building in CA for 12,000 employees. That's what Jobs said before he died. They have around 9,000 here now. They intend to do all of their engineering research in Cupertino and just use China for parts assembly. But I do know what you mean about the transnational definition of an American company and... more... - MRW_8

Danaa -- what you said re: ChasMark -- yes. And American: good of you to take the trouble to deconstruct his grand conspiracy theory. He needs to find another venue. - Sean McBride

@Dan. "Thanks MRW, will check it out when I get a chance." Listen to the opening two/three minutes of the first speaker. That will tell you whether you want to bother...why waste your time, right? The best stuff is in the Q&A. - MRW_8

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: MRW_8

This Danaa comment needs to be pinned. Bravo. http://mondoweiss.net/2012...

October 24 - Comment - Like - Share

Awesome -- that is a rare piece of literature -- much more than a comment. - Sean McBride

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Yeah, Sean, I think we have to send Danaa in as our factotum. ;-) What got me in her comment was the Jon Stewart reaction. From one perspective, I grew up in Manhattan although I got there at the end of my teens. Yiddish is the langua franca in NYC. My father, a wordsmith delecto, used Yiddisisms all the time. I thought moxie was an English word when I was five. It never dawned on me... more... - MRW_8

You've got to admit, though, that Yiddishisms can be great fun to roll around in one's mouth: schmegeggy, yutz, putz, schlub, schmendrick, noodge, dreck, kvell, nebbish, nudnik, schlemiel, etc. I am also always in the process of learning new foreign languages. You should check out the Mango learning system if you don't know it (I am using an Android app for it). Regarding Jon Stewart --... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, he likes his lifestyle. Call it what it is. ;-) Who can blame him? - MRW_8

Well, who wouldn't like an exceptionally good lifestyle, from a materialistic standpoint -- except for the Mother Teresas and Joans of Arc -- which most of us aren't. - Sean McBride

Mother teresa, who lived in a grand apartment in Switzerland. I'd take that. ;-) - MRW_8

Yes Danaa has a way of going to the heart of it without necessarily using a bloody stake to do it. Total balance. Exquisite surgical dissection of the circle zionism creates. - American

OMG MRW...."(I read dictionaries for fun and to keep myself assured that I know nothing.) - MRW_8 We share another trait. I use to read the dictionary in bed every night when I had read everything else I was allowed to read in the house library and no new books were in the chute for me. I even started reading the encyclopedia...not to necessarily learn anything about a particular... more... - American

Thanks you guys for all the kind words. But (there's always a but) you do know that praise (of any kind) goes straight to my head? that arrogance thing I brought over with me never quite goes away - neither age nor time seem to cure it - quite - so gotta be careful - exploding heads is not a pretty sight. Sorry for the garbled syntax here and there (was in a hurry). Unlike MW, this site is great - you can edit your own comments posthumously over and over again just like an etch-a-sketch! - Danaa

@Danaa. Well, then we're lucky you chose to bring over your own brand of arrogance and not other traits.;-) As far as I'm concerned, you're an ambassador for what Israel could have been. My wonderful, intelligent (and famous) mentor, the one who made reverse aliyah in his early 70s--he went over from NYC then came back--had the same complaints you have. So, you're a born Yankee. ;-) - MRW_8

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Danaa

So what with the witch hunts?

October 16 - Comment - Like - Share

American and Sean McBride liked this

Just curious Sean - I read what you had to say on the subject of Greta Berlin's mishap with tweeter and mostly agree. But now we have them, whoever "them" are literally throwing Col. Ann Wright off the boat due to GBA (Guilt By Association). the thread on the subject of greta where the circular fire squad was in full view has been shut don yesterday. I am pretty sure they are deliberately holding up comments for the Ann Wright thread (I know because one of mine is still awaiting) so that it won't suck up all the oxygen like the other one did. I doubt this genie can be put back in the bottle though. The only people for pushing Ann Wright out are Bruce (as expected, he being a known tribal enforcer) and Biorabbi, one o the ziotroll. Everyone else is astounded at the abject stupidity of treating a leader of the movement in such a manner. It's unbelievable to see bruce and annie on the same side - I can't quite forget how he treated her last time around (in connection with the infamous... more... - Danaa

32 more comments

Has anyone done a scheme of who first picked up Berlin's tweets and who it passed to next, and next,...so we can see the ''progression'' of this gang bang? Sounds .like a job for Sean...get on it Sean. - American

I had my comments to you blocked, Danaa. On the Ann Wright thread. Including an innocuous link to an agent provocateur within the Occupy movement article. I told Phil, Ali, and Adam that there were looking down the wrong end of the telescope. I said that I would let Miko Peled speak for me, and quoted from his Methodist Church talk in Seattle on October 1, 2012, and mused whether Peled... more... - MRW_8

I've really appreciated your comments, Danaa. I'm still shaking my head at all this. This tribal nonsense is like the Kudzu weed: http://www.jjanthony.com/kudzu... .Invasive. Allows no sunlight unless it's for itself. Choking. Ancient. Unless you whack at it constantly, there's no hope of controlling it. The only thing it's proving to me is how right Atzmon has been. And Blankfort of... more... - MRW_8

Too bad all these activists, all these peaceniks so desperate to run a 'movement of equality and freedom' by stamping out shiktsa anti-semitism, aren't as vociferous, electrified, and quick-acting in denouncing Israel for what it's doing to the Palestinians. Too bad they can't turn their energy to that, and actually accomplish something. Shows them up for what they really are. They'll be quoting the same shit for the next six years. - MRW_8

I've just read all the Ofer Engel investigative stuff written by Doherty. You can shorten Ofer Engel to Offal. So, you mean to tell me, they jumped the gun on this? Destroyed Greta Berlin? Is that what this means? Is Offal in cahoots with Israeli Jewish activist, Dror Feiler, the head of the Swedish group that's doing all this banning? Furthermore, all because of a Eustace Mullins... more... - MRW_8

Danaa -- check this out: all of my comments to Mondoweiss have gone through without any problems until just recently. I posted two comments in defense of Ann Wright in the Ann Wright thread and they were deleted/censored. I was quite shocked by that. I find it very difficult to believe that Phil Weiss believes that Ann Wright should be ostracized by "right-thinking" people, or that he... more... - Sean McBride

Danaa -- does Annie Roberts realize how easily these smear tactics could be used to drag her down, by linking her to the most controversial comments on Mondoweiss? Would she hope that decent people would come to her defense if she did come under that kind of attack? - Sean McBride

MRW_8: I read all the most controversial and banned material I can get my hands on from all across the political spectrum because *I am curious about the world* -- I want to understand it. I also know that some of the most intensely banned documents throughout world history have turned out to be the most influential. I really detest censors and book-banners -- they are small-minded... more... - Sean McBride

That being said: IF proof is offered that Greta Berlin agrees with and supports the views of Eustace Mullins, who was in fact an egregious Judeophobe, then she should indeed be ostracized by progressive-minded activists. But not a shred of proof has been produced to make that case. When I challenged Alex Kane and ToivoS on this point I received no response -- they are unwilling to enter into a reasonable discussion about these issues. - Sean McBride

Bottom line: Mondoweiss is still right on most issues and is a superb site for discussing Mideast politics. But when it occasionally goes off the tracks on editorial policy, it should be challenged. - Sean McBride

American: more on recent and (for me) unusual censorship at Mondoweiss: two of my comments to you discussing 9/11 were recently deleted. I attempted to respond to hophmi's defense of the 9/11 official story by pointing out that many high-level government officials, scientists and engineers, including leaders of the 9/11 Commission, think that the official story on 9/11 is a crock.... more... - Sean McBride

This current blowup over Greta Berlin and Ann Wright on Mondoweiss is a replay of the previous blowup over Jeffrey Blankfort. It is interesting to bump up against limits of free thought and free speech there, which are sometimes more narrow than my limits. I understand that everyone has a right to establish their own personal limits on free speech but one expects smart people to explain in a persuasive way the rationale for their limits. - Sean McBride

MRW, thanks for drawing my attention to the Mikko Peled Video - never worked through the entire talk before but I still need to find some time to finish watching up to the point you indicated and will comment again then. Also the Kudzu weed reference is cute - interesting analogy. As for censored comments - glad to have confirmation that comments are being censored on that thread - also... more... - Danaa

Sean, glad you confirmed my suspicions that comments are being held up on that thread. It's quite obvious that the vast majority of the MW commentariat is against the shunning of Greta berlin, and my guess is they didn't want this to become too obvious. Plus no one replied to my query about what happened that the previous FGM board resigned (including Naomi Klein) apparently before the... more... - Danaa

Interestingly, this all seems to go back to that private facebook discussion. I suspect it was infiltrated just as every other discussion group was. Sean, it's good that you were so forceful with certain commenters that showed up here, the two I was pretty convinced were false-flag-ops (i won't mention the names). It is very curious how quick such individuals are to enter discussions... more... - Danaa

American, what you asked, others have too - at least three times that I noticed. There was no answer. We don't know who picked up and passed on the tweet first. All I know is that there must be a reason why we don't know. I think we need Blankfort to explain things to us again on how things are done and by whom. The one thing I am pretty sure of is that much is aimed for straight under... more... - Danaa

Danaa, Sean, American: well, one name I'll name is Bruce Wolman. Every time he shows up flexing his muscles after he's written an article, there's trouble on that board. Are certain homepage writers given monitor rights? Of course, Wolman doesn't like me and has said so (during the Blankfort purge). Ditto Max Ajl. I'm the wrong gentile in their view. ;-) They're the Kudzu Kids, IMO. But... more... - MRW_8

Bringing up any historical issues on MW has been often banned by the moderators for a while now. I think it goes back to Jeff. In the past year I had many comments deleted, so I stopped commenting. I have to say that Blankfort was right last year when he called Ali Abunimah out. Ali maintained that Berlin’s comments section was not moderated, but neither was MW for years. I feel MW... more... - Chu_

Sean, I see some of the MW crew has joined you here. Even the queen of rant. ;) http://tinyurl.com/Ofer-En... , Boston triggered some very, very old memories. "I come from Sheikh Jarah but live in Boston". I thought you may be interested. - Slightly more professional than our earlier "friend". - LeaNder

Danaa, there is always something going on behind the scene relative to our limited perception. Concerning this:" what happened that the previous FGM board resigned", it seems board members are elected for a specific time. I am not too familiar with the internal rules, but I hope that this is not also secret. The comment by the former board members, Ali Abunimah posted, suggests to me... more... - LeaNder

Sean, MRW, Danaa,chu, Lea.....break out champagne, none of my comments got censored this time around.... although I expected some to..LOL This whole affair smelled to me from the beginning. We were served up select Berlin quotes and the ONLY side of the story we got was the lynch party's version. As we all know from having been commenters at sites, you can take one or a few comments and... more... - American

MRW, Danna....that Bruce flop is an ass. He's stalking my comments and trying to get me to engage in a fight with him. He's still smarting from when I intruded on his fight with MRW over Black and defended MRW's position. Why the hell he's a contributor there is beyond me, he has the brain power of a fricking cabbage. - American

Danaa, I'm just checking in to report that I am Frankie P, and I my subscription to Mondoweiss has just been terminated. I have sent an email to inquire about why, as I don't believe I have violated the comment policy. I have been guilty of strong criticism recently of Phil Weiss and the attacks on Greta and Ann Wright. I have also made comments in the past that could be seen as... more... - Paul Malfara

Sorry to hear that, Frankie P. You added necessary insight to that discussion. Phil's blog got away from him. He doesn't own it anymore. The Kudzu Kids are in, smothering it. - MRW_8

Frankie P...are you sure you've been terminated? Last week MW wouldn't accept my password and I coudn't sign in and comment. I tried all kinds of ways in and when it did finally accept my password it gave me my profile page where it said 'suscribtion terminated'. Finally I came to friend feed and cllicked on a mondo article to get in MW...when I went thru friend feed to get to it... more... - American

I've noticed that there can be technical glitches now and then when trying to login to Mondoweiss. Just wait a bit to try again and it works. Moderating Mondoweiss must be a tremendous headache -- I am grateful for the people who are willing to take on the burden. It's not a task I could endure for more than thirty minutes -- I am more interested in thinking about my own ideas than in... more... - Sean McBride

I have far more guile than you, Sean. Alexa shows that Israel ranks higher than the US for stats. I have no doubt that the Israeli military information doodad is actively involved in monitoring MW, and that they attempt to intervene in the software to identify commenters. Moderators cannot jam Wordpress, which is the backbone of MW. If that were the case, everyone on Wordpress would be affected. (To get Friendfeed info, they just have to call their pal Zuckerberg, who would roll over for a torn dollar.) - MRW_8

MRW_8: I have no doubt that pro-Israel militants (and the Israeli government) are heavily involved in cyberwarfare efforts against critics of Israel, and that they enjoy the support of many high-level owners and officials of powerful Internet companies. That's a given. We all know that it is happening. - Sean McBride

It's a good bet that Israel has access to all the databases controlled by Amazon, Apple, AT&T, Bank of America, Caltech, CIA, Comcast, DARPA, DHS, DIA, Facebook, FBI, Google, Harvard, IRS, Justice Department, LAPD, Lockheed Martin, Mastercard, Microsoft, MIT, NSA, NYPD, Oracle, Raytheon, Stanford, Twitter, Verizon, Visa, Yale, etc. And it probably relies more on social engineering and social networking (helpers, sayanim, true believers) in those organizations than outside hacking to obtain that access. - Sean McBride

That list of databases, if it were true, is sufficient to embargo Israel forever, like we've done with Cuba (although I think embargoing Cuba is stupid). AIPAC should be registered as a foreign agent now in any event. - MRW_8

If Israel's helpers have enabled Israelis to have access to the databases claimed, and, I don't doubt that is possible, then I see even less of a reason to make the opposition based on activism or academic arguments. The problem isn't in Israel. The problem of Zionist, Jewish, Israeli, or whatever you wish to call it, influence is a problem for the legal system, intelligence community... more... - Todd

All you need is ONE person with high-level access to the information systems and databases of an organization to extract data from it. It's a safe bet that there are quite a few people in all those organizations who would provide special favors for Israel. - Sean McBride

I would guess that it takes a small army to cover the tracks, control the conversation, and otherwise support the people who subvert or skirt, make and change laws for Israel's benefit. - Todd

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

A legacy of two martyrs - http://mondoweiss.net/2012...

September 1 from Mondoweiss - Comment - Like - Share

As we read Anne Frank's diary, we should also read Rachel Corrie's. But her life and courageous stand have been committed to the dustbin of US foreign affairs-- along with the lives of countless young Palestinian Rachels.

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Better idea: use Anne Frank's diary for kindling. She was not a 'martyr' in the any way near the sense that Rachel Corrie was martyred. She just wrote a diary. I understand the Bic pen she used has been found. - Allen Bee

Judeophobia alert. Ain't it just like a Jew to turn the death of Rachel Corrie into an opportunity to exhume and re-autopsy a Jewish "martyr" -- who spent her life sheltered by gentiles and protected to the best of ability of all concerned against the wave of outrage that zionists had set in motion. - Allen Bee

one last smack at the Frank-Corrie comparison: Walid's comment came close to summing up my views, with an exception as noted: Walid said: <<< “Unlike Anne Frank, whose life has been immortalized by the circumstances of her death…” (J. Loewenstein)>>> It was much more a question of Hollywood PR, countless plays, movies, TV dramas and documentaries that immortalized Anne Frank than the... more... - Allen Bee

I am almost afraid to ask: what is your source for this number? -- "Anne Frank’s death from typhus was just one of how, perhaps 250,000 Jews — and not more — died in concentration camps." And would it be fair to call you a Nazi apologist? You seem to have concocted a narrative in which the Nazis were the poor, set upon victims of World War II. Most contemporary Germans would be appalled... more... - Sean McBride

I agree that "most contemporary Germans ...HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED TO BELIEVE that their nation came under the control of mad men and monsters during the Nazi era." They have an excuse for their hideously distorted beliefs: they have been made to suffer terribly and relentlessly. You have no excuse; you put on the airs of a well-read and highly intellectual person, but, to be kind, you... more... - Allen Bee

Allen Bee -- I've read a great deal of historical scholarship on Nazi Germany and the phenomenon of Nazism as an ideology. I am not a gullible person. Leading Nazis were criminally insane and morally degenerate. Nazism is a vile stain on German history and culture. I really wonder if we have much more to discuss. Try expressing these abominable views in Germany and see where it gets you. You are in fact a Nazi apologist, which in reality is synonymous with being a Nazi. - Sean McBride

Put some names on those "criminally insane" leading Nazis, Sean. - Allen Bee

Allen Bee -- if the Nazis hadn't been stupid thugs, they wouldn't have provoked the United States, England and the Soviet Union to utterly crush them. They brought a great catastrophe down on themselves because they were quite insane (besotted on messianic ethnic nationalism) and incapable of reading reality. When you get drunk on messianism, you pay. Germany is now back on its feet, has learned its lessons, and wants nothing to do with neo-Nazis. - Sean McBride

Sean, when you draw the pattern of what zionists have in store for Iran -- a people who have done nothing to the United States and little other than call names toward Israel and the Jewish people -- 25,000 of whom live securely and prosperously in Iran; and when you hear Netanyahu & cohort compare Iran to Nazi Germany and Ahmadinejad to Hitler, and you KNOW that neither is true; you... more... - Allen Bee

Names: Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebbels, Heinrich Himmler, Hermann Goering, Reinhard Heydrich, Julius Streicher, Alfred Rosenberg, etc. Born losers and fuckups. In some ways they remind one of Tea Partiers like Sarah Palin or Michele Bachmann -- but much worse. Most of the best minds in Germany at the time opposed Nazism. - Sean McBride

The other day I heard Josh Rogin on C Span. He tried to rationalize Romney's position that "US will attack Iran" with "US will draw down military spending." Rogin said, breezily, "The war in Iran will be an air war." Well, the war against Germany was an "air war." It destroyed Germany's history, its cultural centers; it deliberately set out to destroy the soul of German civilization.... more... - Allen Bee

One is struck by the sheer jackassery of many of the leading Nazis -- see, for instance, Eric Larson's profile of Goering in "In the Garden of Beasts." -- Goering was basically a blowhard and a buffoon. Germans paid a heavy price for handing over control of their nation to mentally incompetent people. - Sean McBride

You are far more ignorant than I thought, Sean. Tom Childers, Raoul deSales, even William Shirer acknowledge that Hitler was likely a genius, certainly as an orator; deSales acknowledged in "My New Order" that Hitler & Nazis (& Hjalmar Schacht) accomplished what no other world leader could do -- re-establish German economy & achieve full, productive employment. You have drunk too much... more... - Allen Bee

You are in fact an unabashed and unapologetic Nazi! No wonder Mondoweiss banned you. - Sean McBride

One is struck by the sheer jackassery of Eric Larson. I'm just reading Wm. Shirer's "Third Reich," the book that Larson relied upon for his information about Nazism. It's like reading "Garden of the Beasts" all over again: same biases, same failure to provide context. - Allen Bee

Are you capable of assessing arguments or texts critically, or is your sole stock in trade name-calling? - Allen Bee

Hitler was such a "genius" that he drove Germany into a great catastrophe. His fellow Germans would prefer to forget that he ever existed. - Sean McBride

Allen Bee -- bottom line: Nazi policies were enormously destructive for *Germany*, not to mention for many non-Germans. Most people, especially Germans, get this. You don't. You're a Nazi. Good luck with that. - Sean McBride

In 1933 75% of Germans were unemployed; the German people were fractured and dispirited; Weimar government was dysfunctional; Freikorps -- armed, angry, unemployed, were forming gangs and beating up whomever crossed their path -- Larson alludes to this, without providing a context for WHY they were angry. Hitler united the German people around their shared cultural heritage; led the... more... - Allen Bee

No, Nazi policies were NOT "catastrophic for Germany," they were harmful to the profits of predatory capitalists like Rockefeller, Warburg, Rothschild. What was "catastrophic for Germany" were the policies and illegal, immoral war crimes against Germany committed by Churchill, FDR and Eisenhower. Germany's declaration of economic independence -- much like Iran's declaration of economic... more... - Allen Bee

You are still missing the big picture: the final result of Nazi policies was to reduce much of Germany to rubble. The Nazis were deranged -- incapable of rational strategic thinking. They were messianic ethnic cultists and they got their asses righteously kicked. If they try to arise again, they will suffer the same fate. - Sean McBride

It was not "Nazi" policies that destroyed Germany, it was zionist/ British/ United States policy/air bombing that destroyed Germany. - Allen Bee

The Nazis provoked a war with most of the world that they could not possibly win. They were the authors of their own destruction. - Sean McBride

You are still missing the even bigger picture: zionists plan to do the same thing to Iran that they did to Germany. While you are defending liars, zionists are starving Iranian children, assassinating Iranian young people, destroying the Iranian economy. If you are an American, you are paying for that and you are complicit in it. If you can't see that, YOU are the "criminally insane... more... - Allen Bee

MARCH 24 1933 'JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY. JEWS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD UNITE to wage war on Germany." What is it about that declaration that you do not understand? Hitler had been in power less than 60 days. - Allen Bee

"busy sucking Zionist cock"? -- that's the phrase that just got you banned here, Allen Bee. But I will leave your past comments up -- they are instructive. (Inside the mind of a Nazi anti-Zionist.) - Sean McBride

Allen Bee -- please stop posting here. Your comments are not welcome. - Sean McBride

Allen Bee -- you are done here. Stop embarrassing yourself. Show a little dignity and depart. - Sean McBride

Allen Bee -- I am not even bothering to read your comments before deleting them. You are wasting your time. - Sean McBride

Sean, JFK wrote about Hitler: "Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived... he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made." Allen Bee is writing some of the same things that Blankfort wrote, in... more... - MRW_8

As someone who has a great deal of affection for German culture in general, I am disturbed by the efforts of some self-professed anti-Zionists to try to rehabilitate Nazism. I find that project to be completely unbelievable. Germany has regained much of its luster, vitality and reputation in recent years -- Berlin is once again a vibrant world city for many thought leaders and... more... - Sean McBride

What is the cite for that JFK quote? - Sean McBride

My objections to Nazism do not originate in Judeocentrism -- Nazis were the sinister enemies of the civil liberties of everyone, including themselves -- not just Jews. Nazi culture was a self-devouring snake pit. I take civil liberties very seriously indeed. I take my Americanism seriously. The United States had no choice but to take down Hitler -- he was threatening to run roughshod... more... - Sean McBride

Who exactly overestimated the power of Nazi Germany? I don't think anyone seriously believed that Nazi Germany could have invaded the U.S., let alone conquered the entire world, if that's what you mean by "run roughshod over the entire world." Even when the Germans were having initial success during Barbarossa, there was doubt by some German generals on the ground that Germany could win... more... - Todd

The Nazis overestimated their own power and drove Germany into the drink. And the reason they did this was because Hitler and his closest associates were mentally ill, unbalanced by ethnic messianism. - Sean McBride

In terms of overall destructiveness, the Soviet Union and Maoist China probably outdid Nazi Germany. One can make that argument in a reasonable way. But the crimes of Stalin and Mao do not excuse the crimes of Hitler. - Sean McBride

One should ban Nazis from forums which are critical of Israeli government policies for two reasons: 1. Nazism is morally repulsive and intellectually indefensible -- Germans themselves, who paid a high price for permitting Nazis to seize control of their nation, would be the first to admit this. 2. Anti-Zionist Nazis undercut reasonable disagreements with Zionism and in fact provide a... more... - Sean McBride

Another point: to have been a Nazi in the 1930s was bad enough, and shows monumental bad judgment. To be a Nazi in 2012, long after Nazi crimes were fully exposed to the world, reveals moral imbecility and criminal insanity of the worst kind. The offense is much greater in 2012 than it was in 1936. - Sean McBride

Sean, for what it's worth, I agree with your position on these lame attempts to somehow rehabilitate nazism - in the name of decrying zionism. I am not sure why some people get so carried away with anti-zionism that they come to parrot some truly unsavory lines from one of humanity's darkest past moments. I also find it unnecessary. Zionists give us so much fodder for criticism - on a... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- thanks for the comments. I find it so difficult to believe that anyone would sincerely try to defend Nazism and cast Nazis as the victims of World War II that I immediately wonder if anyone expressing these opinions is playing head games and is perhaps trying to undermine criticism of Israel by associating it with Nazi views. But I don't know for sure. Some of the people who... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I agree that profanity and crudeness is out of line. But you are also out of line calling anyone a Nazi or white nationalist based on anything posted on your site. You throw those accusations around too easily. As for questioning certain aspects of accepted WWII history goes, that's perfectly reasonable when, at the very least, when there are still people throwing around the lamp... more... - Todd

Sean, the idea that certain individuals - the ones that make the more outlandish comments and/or use linguistic crudities, may be a version of "sayanim", has occurred to me. I could swear that a few who popped up on Mondoweiss (but banished in short order) were of that kind (names don't come to mind right now). Maybe because the comments so obviously came out of nowhere that they seemed... more... - Danaa

Todd, the issue with attributing some "good things" to the Nazis pre-war is that in the I/P context it is a pointless and needlessly inflammatory statement. Some good things were done by the worst dictators of the world too, like Stalin. Some say Pol Pot's people did some good things too for cambodians - got rid of corruption by thinning the population, didn't they? and lots of... more... - Danaa

Danaa, I said it on MW, and I say it here, that Israel's crimes should stand on their own. I just go a further step, and state that I don't trust people who try to link Israel's crimes to Apartheid or Jim Crow segregation, as neither approached Israel's viciousness, had the same destabilizing affect on the U.S. or the world, and neither segregation or Apartheid had the same goals as... more... - Todd

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: anonymouscomments

(deleted, cause it was anti-semitic, i agree) sorry this guy is good. but much of his stuff is good, and focused on the multivariate elite- http://www.youtube.com/user...

June 21, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

If this isn't a virulently antisemitic and Judeophobic video, what would such a video look like? There are numerous giveaways, starting with the use of "Jew" as an adjective. (Who in the world uses "Jew" as an adjective other than antisemitic cranks?) The phrase "out these outlanders" triggers bells -- "outlanders"? -- is Snordelhans a Nazi? - Sean McBride

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Here is the main problem with the video: it fails to take into account the prominent role of numerous non-Jews among American and European power elites in producing our current political crises. It is obviously trying to incite hatred and violence against all Jews in general. It is squarely in Hitlerian territory. - Sean McBride

i don't disagree with you much. antisemitic. but the jewish nature of our elites? it is so overwhelming, people are going to continue to lack nuance, and call out the "jews".... i'm getting kind of numb to it, despite being jewish and a stickler for nuance. i don't do it, and i think the greatest progress will be made when JEWS finally realize their elites are also continually screwing... more... - anonymouscomments

Reminds me of a comment I made on MW.....about the zios not realizing how easily their Muslim demonizing game can be flipped on them. Anyone who wanted to put as much effort and money into demonizing Jews as they have put into demonizing Muslims to the public would find the same audience. And frankly it was or is bound to happen. Monkey see monkey do.....if it works for the zios it will work for those who want to demonize the Jews. Fasten your seat belts the world is cracking up.. - American

All ethnic groups, religions, nations, industries, etc. tend to produce criminal elites -- generating these elites seems to be an expression of basic human nature. World history is largely the record of shifting patterns of conflict and cooperation among these diverse criminal elites. So why try to lay the blame for all this activity on only one group? But it is true that Jewish issues... more... - Sean McBride

With regard to sorting out the relative power of various special interest groups: sort interest groups worldwide by number of billionaires. Follow the money to the top of the food chain. - Sean McBride

Sean, I don't think anyone claims that Jews are the only group to form a criminal elite, or to use their power in ways that aren't exactly just or ethical. What some people are doing is looking at what is happening at this very moment, and Jews have a heavy hand in what is wrong in the world. I'd go a few steps beyond and say that the billionaires are influenced by their background as much as they influence those of their same background. - Todd

I think the Jewish community has permitted the Israeli government and the Israel lobby to push itself out on a dangerous limb with regard to the crude abuse of power in American politics. The Sheldon Adelsons in the Jewish establishment are helping to fan the flames of classical anti-Jewish conspiracy theories. But I think it's also important to find a way to discuss these issues without promoting antisemitism. That is why I have a major problem with this video. - Sean McBride

"So why try to lay the blame for all this activity on only one group? "....the answer to that is the blame is placed on the group currently doing whatever people object to or are against....in another time and place it could be another group ....it was socialist and capitalist in old China.....for Chomsky and socialist followers it is 'The Elites of the Great Satan USA'.....what group... more... - American

sean- i agree entirely. i guess in my mind, i almost substituted right wing zionists and other elites, for "jews". i always frame it as an elite, perhaps disproportionately jewish (perhaps? well, clearly) that does not have the best interests of anyone in mind, except themselves. israelis and jews are one of their main victims, as their interests are not being served. and i am wondering... more... - anonymouscomments

thoughts anyone? i kinda hate probing the occult... but i have enough people i know and trust who point to this. http://www.youtube.com/watch... - anonymouscomments

anonymous -- these are really complex issues that need to be handled with the utmost care and precision: 1. Yes, Jews are overrepresented among American elites. 2. Yes, Jewish organized crime is a factor in world affairs. 3. Yes, a "cross-ethnic occult paradigm" may unite some elites from some groups internationally. The main pitfall to avoid is to blame "the Jews" collectively for activities committed by elite alliances that include many non-Jews. - Sean McBride

mous...until you or Jews and gentiles in general refuse to be intimidated by anti semitism when talking about the "jewish mafia ' or what ever you won't talk about it without those feelings. And it really is totally ridiculous....no one accuses anyone of 'anti gentilism' when we bash gentile criminals or gentile zio politicians. ..iow, you can't do it until you totally reject the double... more... - American

agreed sean. and i feel like 9/11 is the only way to blow the cover off it.... if we can get grassroots awareness of 9/11 in time, perhaps in a non-aligned country first. given the depth of control, for the variable elite.... what do you think the best tactic is? i think the chomskian and other people's attempt at fighting the symptoms, rather than the cause, is myopic and denies the... more... - anonymouscomments

anonymous -- re: the Youtube video -- I don't find her story to be credible: 1. If Svali's story were true, she wouldn't be around to tell it -- the Illuminati she describes would have silenced her years ago. 2. There is no credible evidence, documentation or testimony to back her up. 3. The real machinations of the global power elite for the most part are right out there in plain view,... more... - Sean McBride

sean- i don't entirely disagree.... and i consider the worst crimes right out in front of us. but i think we both know that over thousands of years, various cultures and elites have perfected means of ensuring cohesion, loyalty, and a "hive mind" group (most specifically at the top). i consider the occult, and various organizations (with layers, much like scientology) as means of... more... - anonymouscomments

I agree that various groups use mind control methods to enslave their followers, but one needs to see proof that a particular group is using a particular method (for instance, criminal investigators have managed to record induction ceremonies conducted by the Italian Mafia) before believing a specific claim. There is a vast paucity of concrete and checkable facts in Svali's story. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and there is no proof whatever here. - Sean McBride

agreed- i would need proof to put more than a curiosity into her claims. but considering the way 9/11, which was clearly a form of controlled demo, has been suppressed, i can conceive of occult groups getting away with their secret society, and silencing or marginalizing any peeps that manage to squeak out. is there a group so powerful, they can get away with it? perhaps.... but i do... more... - anonymouscomments

anonymous -- as I mentioned before, the 9/11 official story has been thoroughly demolished in in-depth analysis on the Internet for more than a decade now but all of that information continues to be systematically censored by the mainstream media -- most Americans have no awareness of the facts concerning 9/11. Are the mainstream media controlled by a mysterious occult group? I don't... more... - Sean McBride

Regarding "Svali" -- are you aware that she appears to be a Christian fundamentalist and Christian Zionist? In her conspiracy scheme, German Nazis in collusion with the Vatican are the bad guys while Israelis and Jews are the good guys. But wait: the Vatican opposed the Iraq War! Her claims and theories don't match up to reality on any key points. One wonders if Svali isn't another... more... - Sean McBride

anonymous -- I've posted a bit about the Illuminati in a somewhat fanciful way in my Friendfeed stream: http://friendfeed.com/search... Fanciful, yes, but also well-grounded in reality. Illuminati are people from all traditions who seek ultimate knowledge with every atom of their being. Yes, they exist. Yes, they largely control the world. Knowledge is power. - Sean McBride

One can data mine one's way into the truth about all of these issues. - Sean McBride

thanks for your input sean, always respect your angle... will be some good reading - anonymouscomments

"Illuminati are people from all traditions who seek ultimate knowledge with every atom of their being. Yes, they exist. Yes, they largely control the world. Knowledge is power." I don't know about an Illuminati, so I'm not going to comment on that. However, outside of hoarding power and money, I don't see great genius on the part of the PWB. At least on the part of the public faces of... more... - Todd

Crazed tyrants and despots often hijack the works and technologies of authentic Illuminati for short-sighted and evil ends. - Sean McBride

sean random personal question (i am agnostic)- are you a christian, or have any particular theistic belief? i am just wondering, because i have met many deep into the 9/11 and israel palestine thing, and eventually found out they were christians (of the good sincere type). ~peace - anonymouscomments

Talk of authentic Illuminati and a right to power starts to sound a bit like ubermenschen and might makes right. - Todd

Todd -- I am Roman Catholic by upbringing, now a mix of agnostic, theosophist and Buddhist by choice, but with an appreciation for the best elements of Christian culture over two millennia (including literature, music, architecture, painting, etc.). - Sean McBride

Todd... I have the same issue. Illuminati have their good and their bad parts, like elite Zionists. But I don't pass off the evil shit as an aberration. Like the yin and yang, ideologies or cultures of the extreme, show extremes on all sides. And the extreme parts we feel, and ends lives, is the darker part, inherent in secretive and elitist machinations. - anonymouscomments

Of course, I am found lacking when placing a finger on the "good" side of right wing Zionism.... but I do really appreciate parts of Jewish "culture", which comes from the people as a collective... not Zionist elites making plans for other people's lands, and wars on perceived foes. Or fucking with the US body politic..... - anonymouscomments

Arguably the entire human race is an Illuminati enterprise -- what most distinguishes human beings from all other species is their rocket-powered quest for ever-expanding knowledge. - Sean McBride

Sean, I think anonymouscomments asked about your religious beliefs. Either way, I find your beliefs interesting. I'm sure that most of what I have read of theosophy is sensational and biased, so I don't know what is at the heart of the system. I wasn't raised in a religious home, but my grandparents were Methodists. I don't reject religion, but I believe that many aspects of... more... - Todd

Todd -- I can appreciate your views on religion, most of which on some days I share. But I also think that all human cultural expressions provide valuable sources of insight about the world, and especially about the human mind. All symbol systems are begging to be understood at various levels. One doesn't have to "believe" in them to make use of them. - Sean McBride

I don't know what you mean by Illuminati, Sean. Do you just mean people of great intelligence and achievement, or do you mean a secretive group of people who are acting together to wield power? Assuming that there is a group of supremely intelligent people managing the world, how much different would they be than average people? What would our responsibilities to one another be? How... more... - Todd

Illuminati: exceptionally gifted people on the cutting edge of advanced knowledge domains who are seeking ultimate knowledge. They may or may not be operating in secrecy -- it depends. I am not romanticizing or idealizing them -- they are capable of making gigantic mistakes -- but they tend to drive human civilization forward and make interesting things. They are a huge factor in how the world works. I am using the term somewhat metaphorically -- I am not advocating a conspiracy theory of any kind. - Sean McBride

Sean - this is the truest statement you made: ". The real machinations of the global power elite for the most part are right out there in plain view, open for objective and solid social scientific analysis.". I am a skeptic on illuminati stuff because it is not really needed. The well-off have always ganged together - from time immemorial. The only differences at different epochs are... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- really cogent remarks and analysis there -- I agree. But I might dip my toe into the conspiracy stream just a bit: it wouldn't surprise me if some Illuminati (big thinkers in the global cryptocracy -- the highest levels of the classified world) have been thinking about scenarios for engineering the massive reduction of human population for a variety of reasons -- not just from... more... - Sean McBride

I like this: "It is overt plain greed that makes for stupid - if they were cows, it'd be called over-grazing." Over-grazing -- great image. Hereditary oligarchies always tend to go quite mad. - Sean McBride

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: anonymouscomments

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints... blankfort in an older interview

May 26, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

polymath22 liked this

FYI I am in the process of building http://occupy911truth.org and http://911dust.com any people who would like to help, please let me know here. Content, advice, and editting would be a great help. - anonymouscomments

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And if anyone is feeling real ambition, I have antihasbara.com, where I would like to aggregate the most common hasbara lines, with rebuttals, in English (Arabic and Hebrew once complete, I have translators at the ready). - anonymouscomments

Well I would help you mous but I my brain hibernates during "summer time"..I think it's genetic..LOL My library of 10 years research is currently empty...bought a new laptop, transferred all old files to it then left town for 2 weeks and in my hurry inadvertently left it running siting on a glass top table on the porch and had a melt down...total fricking mess. But tell me what to do or what to look for and I will try to help. - American

Wake up American and get over the melt down (sorry to hear about it. Commiserate big time). Life is a bitch - always interfers with our best laid plans. Go help mous do something, will you? me busy with stuff (slaying dragons is hard! they really know how to reproduce! and my special talents are in demand...and the book you told me to get off the ground is in the works...being hawked as we speak....too much on plate...and too few of us). I miss the old MW, BTW.... - Danaa

American -- it's a good idea to store one's important documents at at least two locations in the cloud. Check out Carbonite, Mozy, Amazon, SugarSync, Google Docs, etc. Many of these services run quietly in the background with little or no attention required. Also back up your stuff in real time locally on an external hard drive or thumb drive. - Sean McBride

Anonymous -- I will check out your sites as soon as I find time. I should tell you that emerging Semantic Web technologies are my real focus of interest -- Middle East politics is only a secondary or tertiary interest for me. You might look into some of these technologies to organize your data on Mideast politics. - Sean McBride

thanks sean, can you provide i good link re that technology? also, i highly recommend dropbox as a backup utility, and you get a lot free. you can sign up here http://db.tt/QIInjf9Z (and i get additional free space!). it stores gigs of data free and seamlessly, but even better you can make public links, and access your files from most any device. you can also create shared folders where invited people can work w/ read/write access to a folder. - anonymouscomments

Anonymous -- yes, Dropbox -- also highly recommended. Re: the Semantic Web -- it's a huge, sprawling and rapidly evolving research front. You might start by taking a good look at DBpedia and Wikidata and thinking about how to convert all your data to RDF, OWL or a similar semantic markup format. Data organized by semantic markup is powerful data indeed -- alive, not inert, and subject... more... - Sean McBride

Some basic Semantic Web concepts to think about: 1. assertions 2. categories 3. instances 4. links 5. inferences 6. inference rules 7. items 8. lists 9. members 10. networks 11. object types 12. objects 13. ontologies 14. properties 15. relations 16. set differences 17. set intersections 18. set unions 19. sets 20. social networks 21. sorted lists 22. subcategories 23. subsets 24. supercategories 25. supersets 26. taxonomies 27. trees 28. triples 29. values 30. vectors - Sean McBride

I know -- it sounds a bit abstract and abstruse -- but it is all in fact incredibly simple once you develop an ontological frame of mind. All you really need to think about are categories and instances to get your foot in the door. Semantic Web methods get one into the realm of empirical facts and truth as opposed to vague speculation -- not a bad place to be. - Sean McBride

American, I think the name is DriveSavers. They can clean-room retrieve ALL data on your dead drive. They did it for laptop dropped into Orinoco River then run over by a Jeep. $$$. But it works. I've used them If you have Mac, try DiskWarrior. Can bring back from dead. - MRW_8 from iPhone

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

New US demographics make Israel’s demographic fears seem all the more prehistoric - http://mondoweiss.net/2012...

May 19, 2012 from Mondoweiss - Comment - Like - Share

Sean McBride liked this

How long will Obama be able to honor Israel's demographic concerns without sounding like a total racist?

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I really don't understand why so many people are so happy that America's demographics are changing. The change isn't democratic at all and, contrary to what many supporters claim, it is a risky move that has negatives attached. I have no problem with the legal minorities present having equal rights and legal protections, but that's not what most multiculturalists and supporters of... more... - Todd

Todd, not when the definition of a homogeneous society is a bunch of humans, when minority differences have as much import as a difference in clothing styles. I am one of those multiculturists who likes it all mixed up. I just prefer intelligence in my majorities and minorities, and I won't brook fools. - MRW_8

MRW, I don't claim to know what the differences in humans groups are, or what causes the differences. However, I do know that human beings will fight tooth-and-nail over things that are as insignificant as clothing style to me. That's a fact that is inescapable. I also admit that it saddens me when I travel to areas or countries that I have seen change drastically in a short time with... more... - Todd

There are big political questions to this above and beyond diversity...is America better as a soverign country or operating as a UN? Multiculturism in society is fine, but it is not fine when it leaks into politics and dictates how America operates. I have come to despise "Liberalism" as the far left uses it because it is stupid...literally stupid. ..it has replaced the idea of the... more... - American

My thoughts: nations have an innate right to control immigration in a way that best supports their interests and culture. They would be crazy not to do so. There is nothing "racist" or discriminatory in the negative sense in that policy. Nations should search out the best potential immigrants they can find and encourage them to immigrate. American prosperity depends on a continual influx of bright minds. - Sean McBride

What is aburd and intellectually dishonest is conflating opposition to illegal immigration with opposition to legal immigration. They are radically different positions. - Sean McBride

Todd, go to Canada. The country will not survive because of the low birth rate, so immigrants are welcome, WAY more welcome than here. Even ultra right wing kids know that and say so, becau I have heard them. (Sure, there are probably pockets where some are discriminated against, but that is NOT the norm.) Edmonton Alberta is the "murder capital of Canada" mainly because of the influx... more... - MRW_8

MRW, if Canadians wish to open their country, and things work out, that's fine for Canadians. I'm pretty sure that the situation in Canada is quite different than the situation in the U.S. Massive demographic change and illegal immigration would have never been accepted had Americans had a vote. I'd even be willing to bet that the 1965 act and the 1988 amnesty would have never passed a... more... - Todd

American, you are probably right that Mexicans have little desire to control U.S. foreign policy as Jews and Cubans have done. It appears that groups such as La Raza are more interested in domestic issues such as immigration, amnesty, affirmative action for hispanics and other preferences, which I can't see benefiting Americans at large. There is also the reasonable fear that Mexican corruption will spread to our already very corrupt system. - Todd

"Nations should search out the best potential immigrants they can find and encourage them to immigrate. American prosperity depends on a continual influx of bright minds." I agree to a point, Sean. The U.S. certainly benefited from Tesla, Von Braun, Einstein and others, but those men are few and far between. The present elites seem all too willing to forgo decent educations and development for average Americans in order to chase educated and developed foreigners. In my mind that is crazy and immoral. - Todd

"Nations should search out the best potential immigrants they can find and encourage them to immigrate. American prosperity depends on a continual influx of bright minds."...I don't really agree with that. It's too much like 'engineering' a society. Maybe I am an idealist after all....I do believe in the "give us your poor, your huddled masses." To my mind refugees fleeing real threats... more... - American

Todd and American: I hear you. That last comment of mine was too much on the elitest side. I need to turn that down a few notches. My own immigrant ancestors were "just people" --- no Einsteins in the bunch. :) - Sean McBride

Today people like Einstein don't have live in the US for us to benefit from them....the world is wide open now. How many average immigrants would actually choose to leave their home country if they didn't have to to survive economically or otherwise? Probably not many. If Mexico wasn't so corrupt and 80% of the population in poverty due to that and they could have jobs and decent standards of living they wouldn't be migrating to the US. - American

I suspect a fair number foreign students who earn their Ph.Ds at Harvard, MIT, Yale, Stanford, Caltech and other elite American universities choose to stay in the United States, go to work for American corporations and become American citizens. They certainly add tremendous value to the American enterprise. - Sean McBride

"They certainly add tremendous value to the American enterprise. - Sean McBride" Just for arguments sake ,give me examples of how foreign students have added any more to US enterprise than US graduates of Harvard and etc.. I don't doubt there are some examples of individuals but you would have to literally tally up foreign vr home grown, if even you could decide what all enterprises to... more... - American

My argument is not that foreign talent is superior to domestic talent; merely that it supplements it. My impression is that many of these foreigners with American Ph.D's are, for instance, playing leading roles at American high tech, software and Internet companies. - Sean McBride

My argument is that using foreign students makes it easy for the U.S. elites to ignore the fact that public education is a failing system for most children in the U.S., and the federal government has a huge role to play in that failure. I also find it absurd that many public colleges actually recruit students from foreign colleges, and write off many children of the very people who pay... more... - Todd

It's also worth mentioning that the vast majority of the immigrants coming to this country are not highly skilled or well-educated, and will never become either. At most many only serve the purpose of lowering wages and living standards for native born Americans who have no say in the situation. - Todd

Todd -- indeed, American educational standards are in dire straits compared to those of many other nations. The federal government should move very aggressively to upgrade those standards and to improve the competitiveness of Americans against foreigners. And certainly the vast majority of illegal immigrants are contributing to the decline in economic standards for most Americans. It's... more... - Sean McBride

Todd, I love you but your comment "It's also worth mentioning...no say in the situation" is just horseshit. This country is nothing but immigrants. To claim that they lower wages and living standards for native born Americans is Lou Dobbs kool-aid. Texas did the only audit that tracked the numerical/economical value of undocumented workers. (Started 2005, ended 2006.) They brought in... more... - MRW_8

Todd, start with this: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012... - MRW_8

Everyone, read this: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012... - MRW_8

MRW -- I'm glad you chose Todd to rebuke instead of me. :) I'll read the essay. - Sean McBride

Both of the articles, Sean. And I wasn't really rebuking Todd. I was rebuking the ideas. [EDIT: I get batshit crazy when I fear that entire groups of people are demonized unfairly.] I made it a second job without income in 2006 to trace the anti-immigration movement, and spend too much time contacting the govt to get actual figures. What I uncovered I can't plop down here...too... more... - MRW_8

MRW -- I am going to dig into this and see what you've got. - Sean McBride

MRW, I don't see how your links negate my point that most of the immigrants coming to this country are not highly educated or skilled and never will be, or that many only serve the purpose of lowering wages and living standards of many native born citizens who have no say in the matter. Surplus labor theory aside, I have known managers who have explicitly stated that they would hire... more... - Todd

MRW, I don't know much about the Texas audit, but I fail to see how people who are largely not net taxpayers, if they pay taxes at all, are a big plus for an economy--especially when they do use services like public schools, jails, hospitals, roads, aid for children, etc. I would imagine that a Rick Perry or G.W. Bush audit would also show Israel being a net financial positive for the... more... - Todd

Also, wouldn't the skyrocketing price of produce be due to rising fuel costs and ridiculously long supply chains more than to labor inefficiencies or troubles? My local grocery stores have plenty of fruit which is rarely local, and often from other countries like Chile, Guatemala, and even from as far away as Spain and South Africa. It's usually pretty cheap to buy directly from local... more... - Todd

"The ADL issued a weak apologia two weeks after the article came out, but the damage was done, as the message got sent to right-wing Jewish groups and most importantly, Christian Evangelical Zionists, who are the meat and potatoes of the anti-immigration movement." That's interesting, MRW. I can't possibly account for all of the Christian Zionists out there, but many of the Evangelical... more... - Todd

Todd, it's late in my neck of the woods and a friend is offering a drink at the local. So I'm going. I will respond mañana. Roughly, what section of the country do you live in? NE? SW? W? SE? NW? Middle North or South? - MRW_8

MRW, I like it when you are on fire. And good points on the immigrant issue. People keep forgetting - if not for them "aliens" our population would be in decline, just as in Europe and japan. And I do agree with you about the "wage lowering" issue. In my experience, it is certainly not some "illegal immigrants" that got the health care plans and other benefits trimmed down to bare bones... more... - Danaa

You too, Danaa. Drinkey-poos call. I'm exhausted after this day. Will reply tomorrow. When the fire returns. ;-) - MRW_8

I am all for legal immigration....and torn on the issue of illegal immigration. ..don't know the solution for those that are already here. I don't think illegals are responsible for wage 'lowering' but do think they had at one time an impact on unskilled jobs...the ones we are told Americans won't do. In my area we had a lot of imigrants up until the job market went to hell. Large... more... - American

I can see Todd's point on some things from personal observation/ experience.....one case would be a company here owned by an aquaintence of mine that is the largest turkey operation in the country. I wrote a rec for a young girl that had worked part time for us when she applied for office job there....she did not get the job because she didn't speak Spanish....and I know this for a fact... more... - American

A couple more data points for the debate here. One is on the upper end of the scale. People may not realize that in most engineering and Physics departments it is practically impossible to have an American graduate studet. papers I peruse through have long lists of Chinese and/or Korean names, with a sputtering of Indians and an occasional lone east European. It seems that Americans -... more... - Danaa

IMO, this mass exodus from the sciences will have serious consequences for the US. We are already losing on Physics and space research. As more and more of the Chinese, Koreans and Indians we have helped educate move back to their home countries there'll be a major brain drain, the consequences of which are difficult to estimate now. As an aside, I have seen not a single jewish American... more... - Danaa

On the other end of the scale, which is what Todd seems interested in, there's a serious issue in that Americans don't want to work in certain jobs almost no matter what the salary is. Does any of us know anyone whose dream it is to work at a slaughterhouse? what salary would need to be offered for anyone to take up with that kind of a job? and who wants to pick the fields - a... more... - Danaa

Insightful comments, Danaa, and consonant with my own personal observations. - Sean McBride

Danaa, you very well can blame American education for the problem of woefully unprepared students. The U.S.lags way behind most industrial nations in test scores. I can't tell you what happens in elite private schools, but I know very well that public education is a massive failure for a very large number of U.S. children, and in no way can compete with nations like Finland. To say... more... - Todd

Danaa, I know many Americans who do physical labor that is easily rougher than picking fruit. That's not the issue. The issue is that they don't wish to work in a system that isn't much better than sharecropping, and also pays very little. I've actually seen the living conditions of migrants in rural areas, and there is no reason that any American would aspire to that kind of life. It's... more... - Todd

Well, I 've been watching the crew that started repairing my neighbor's roof yesterday.....a dirty job....seems about split between Mexican and Blacks. I am not sure it's aversion to physical labor for Americans, I think 'expectations' of a living wage has more to do with it than that. Face it... how could anyone rent shelter, much less own one, or pay for health insurance or own a car... more... - American

American, I've helped roof a house before, and it isn't that bad. Actually, my great uncle recently roofed his house, and he's in his 90s. It took him almost a year to do it, but he did finished. One problem in this country is that manual or physical labor has been reduced to something to be ashamed of, and immigration has played a part. The belief is that any job below a certain level... more... - Todd

My adult career wasn't physical labor but in my teenage years it was.....one summer I 'cropped tobacco' on a farm which was my father's idea of teaching me about people and areas of life.....this was picking tobacco leaves off stalks in 99+ degrees of sun most of the time...from sun up to sundown. After the first day my arms were so sore I could barely raise them but I toughened up and... more... - American

American

Absolutely Hopeless- From the Mondo who is a Anti Semite

May 10, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

I have to give up on this before I lose my mind. I'll post below a comment by a Mondo poster, Elliot, who says he is non zionist Jew and Israeli. - American

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Elliot said...."“I don’t think that Jewish messianism and elitism is innately evil or destructive. In fact, I think it can be a powerful force for good and human progress. But harnessing Jewish messianism and its vanguard visionary traits to produce positive results requires applying maximum intelligence to control it — it needs to be moderated and channeled in positive ways.” And... more... - American

I said...."Oh man, you are so messed up with Jewishness/zionismness and its ”vanguard visionary traits to produce positive results requires applying maximum intelligence to control it —” and the light onto nations…that you have no idea what kind of supremist thinking this is. - American

If anyone knows of a cure for this kind of ethnic or whatever it is supremism....kindly inform the world. Looks hopeless to me. - American

American, do you have a link to the post? lately I have not been commenting much or noticing others' comments. Working on stuff - like trying to find the secret pattern in the web of "chosen-ness". It;s a bit like the Loch-Ness Monster though. There's evidence which disappears when you look at it. Pictures snapped of it are always out of focus. Is it real? is it deliberately mysterious?... more... - Danaa

Danna, here's the link...http://mondoweiss.net/2012... I have to kick Sean in the butt instead of Elliot...Sean wrote that...he's into all the 'academic' theories of Jewish (and all other's) messianism. In' theory world' he thinks it can be channeled and controlled for good. LOL If messianism could be controlled it... more... - American

Danna, the unweaving of webs sound interesting..what are you up to?...trying to find the string that will unravel it all for your book? Share with us when you have time ...And tell us the cure. - American

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

Gay Marriage and Politics - http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_sem...

May 10, 2012 from Sic Semper Tyrannis - Comment - Like - Share

I am libertarian by instinct if not by party. I don't care who you have sex with and then call it "marriage." I am about as neutral on this "issue" as one can be. Nevertheless, I find the homogeneous unity...

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I totally agree with this post - describes well what's been bothering me as well. The complete condescention by urban elites towards their fellow Americans (which include many, many democrats) is breathtaking. These are the same so-called "liberals" who stay mum about the massacres of civilians perpetrated by our centurians and drones in Afganistan and Yemen, the take-over of personal... more... - Danaa

Danaa, 'sabotage as its own goal'. It crossed my mind. Your litany of elite silences on real immorality is one that disgusts me deeply as well. About the only other person expressing my views on that these days is Greenwald. When he makes it the topic of his posts, he is speaking for me exactly. Adam Curtis visualizes it. - MRW_8 from iPhone

MRW, I am totally with you on Glenn. One of the few bright spots in my day lately as well. That said, I enjoy sometimes posting a link to one of his latest (always hard hitting, always on the money) on facebook pages of friends of friends (or one of a myriad liberalish offspring, especially the 20-30 somethings, who in their eternal foolishness friended me) who dared to post some... more... - Danaa

Actually my major educational campaign at the moment is to conclusively prove to my fellow humans that unbridled networking is not all it's cracked up to be. A hive may sound great till one realizes there may be a fly (or two) in the ointment. I like being that fly....probably for the same reason GG enjoys every second of his gadfly existence. - Danaa

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: MRW_8

Extraordinary discussion going on in the comments at Mondoweiss: "‘We must expel Arabs and take their place’: Institute for Palestine Studies publishes 1937 Ben-Gurion letter advocating the expulsion of Palestinians."...

April 21, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

I am trying to do this from an iPad and having data entry problems. I wanted to say that this is one discussion you should preserve. Hostage's contributions are incredible. The link got screwed up but easy to fix. - MRW_8

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hells bells...looks like there may be a character limit in the original post. Here is the link: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - MRW_8

This discussion proves that the creation of Israel had nothing to do with the Holocaust. It was a Zionist putsch from the get-go to steal Pal land. - MRW_8

I agree MRW. That's one smashing comment section. Hostage don't take no prisoners (and why should he). If MW is smart, they'll pick up some of his best for a front page post of its own. I think I'll suggest that....(to which unfortunately, the response might be - great idea, could you do it?) - Danaa

MRW_8 - "creation of Israel had nothing to do with holocaust" -- now that that idea is afloat in the public consciousness, bit by bit that public will become aware that zionists were intricately involved in Versailles Treaty (Loyd George, chief negotiator at Versailles, was Herzl's personal lawyer; Bernard Baruch sat at Wilson's elbow; Max Warburg negotiated parts of the treaty; in his... more... - Solon

"This discussion proves that the creation of Israel had nothing to do w/ the holocaust" negates this claim in Mooser's comment -- "Right down to taking advantage of the exigencies which beset the Jewish population in Europe and elsewhere to provide motivate and existentially terrified raw material."... more... - Solon

continued. There are all kinds of problems with that broadly and internationally published Jewish declaration of war on Germany -- 1. Was "Judea" a state in March 1933? 2. Was "international Jewry" functioning under the auspices of the American and/or British governments in "declaring war on Germany?" 3. Isn't it a usurpation of the rights of democratic people to "declare war?" 4.... more... - Solon

"'The Reich's outrageous "reaction" to the "Jewish-led boycott" was a ONE DAY boycott of Jewish merchants, Apr 1, 1933" BECAUSE the Zionists made a deal with the Nazis [Edit: I wrote 'Zionists', duh] that ended it. For recounting this absolute historical FACT, Jeff Blankfort was banned from Mondoweiss. NYC Channel 5(?) Evening News reported this in April 1984. Watch and preserve it: http://YouTube.com/watch... - MRW_8

MRW_8, that NYC 1984 news video re publication of The Transfer Agreement is loaded with lies, as is Black's book. It suggests that Germany launched a boycott on Apr 1 1933 BEFORE Jews did, but the facts are obviously different: on March 24 1933 London newspapers carried banner headlines blaring, "Judea Declares War on Germany; International Jewry to boycott Germany . . ." Black writes... more... - Solon

Solin, there were many Zionist groups, all with different aims (England, America, Canada, Germany, Palestine, etc). Some wanted to save European Jews and allow them to emigrate wherever. Others wanted them to go to Palestine. The latter won out, including Wise and Untermyer who convinced FDR (and the Canadian PM) to turn the refugees back, although the Canadians worked out something... more... - MRW_8

MRW_8, this is the key statement in your response: "Some wanted to save European Jews." No, nobody wanted to "save European Jews," they wanted to save BANKRUPT PALESTINE. The only way that could be accomplished was to get German Jewish money to transfer from Germany to Palestine. In early 1933, there was insufficient threat to "save" German Jews FROM, so some motivation had to be... more... - Solon

Herbert Hoover succinctly assessed Hitler's three goals: 1. regain territory lost at Versailles (which was negotiated by zionists & which Ed. Black & Benj. Netanyahu call "a zionist triumph"); 2. expand eastward; 3. destroy Russian Bolshevism. #2, eastward expansion was driven by Nazism's unshakable determination that NEVER AGAIN would German women and children be starved to death as... more... - Solon

Sean McBride to Mondoweiss on Friendfeed, Mideast Politics

Jewish news sources

April 22, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

1. +972 2. Antony Loewenstein 3. Atlas Shrugs 4. CiF Watch 5. Commentary 6. Debkafile 7. deLiberation 8. FailedMessiah 9. Forward 10. Frontpage Magazine 11. Globes Financial News 12. Haaretz 13. Israel National News 14. Israel21c 15. Israpundit 16. Jeffrey Goldberg 17. Jerusalem Post 18. Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles 19. Jewish Post of New York 20. Jewish Press 21. Jewish Week 22. Jewish World Review 23. Jews sans frontieres 24. JIDF 25. JTA 26. Lobelog 27. M.J. Rosenberg 28. Maariv 29. Magnes Zionist 30. Max Blumenthal 31. Moment 32. Mondoweiss 33. Muzzlewatch 34. Near East Report 35. One Jerusalem 36. Passionate Attachment 37. Realistic Dove 38. South Jerusalem 39. Tablet Magazine 40. Tikkun 41. Tikun Olam 42. War in Context 43. Washington Jewish Week 44. Yeshiva World News 45. Yid With Lid 46. Ynet News - Sean McBride

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Any others? - Sean McBride

Did you include +972? Bernard Avishai? I'll have a few more for you later...also, how about separating News and/or "News + Commentary" from pure commentary? - Danaa

Jews Sans Frontiers - Danaa

The NYTs? (not so tongue-in-cheek....) - Danaa

National Public Radio (not so tongue-in-cheek, either) - MRW_8

NPR is definitely liberal Zionist. (I am defining Jewish news source as any media outlets that explicitly focus on Jewish news, affairs and issues.) - Sean McBride

AISH.org - Solon

Sean McBride to Mondoweiss on Friendfeed, Mideast Politics

Jewish pundits

April 22, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

1. Aaron David Miller 2. Abraham Foxman 3. Abram Shulsky 4. Adam Horowitz 5. Adam Levick 6. Akiva Eldar 7. Alan Dershowitz 8. Alan Hart 9. Alex Kane 10. Alisa Solomon 11. Alison Weir 12. Amira Hass 13. Amos Oz 14. Amy Goodman 15. Andrew Bostom 16. Andrew Rosenthal 17. Antony Loewenstein 18. Ari Berman 19. Ariel Cohen 20. Arno Mayer 21. Avi Shlaim 22. Avrum Burg 23. Benny Morris 24. Bernard Avishai 25. Bernard-Henri Levy 26. Bill Maher 27. Bob Shrum 28. Bradley Burston 29. Bret Stephens 30. Caroline Glick 31. Cecilie Surasky 32. Charles Krauthammer 33. Cliff May 34. Dan Abrams 35. Dan Lieberman 36. Dan Senor 37. Daniel Lapin 38. Daniel Levy 39. Daniel Luban 40. Daniel Pipes 41. Danielle Pletka 42. David Aaronovitch 43. David Axelrod 44. David Brog 45. David Bromwich 46. David Brooks 47. David Frum 48. David Gelernter 49. David Grossman 50. David Horowitz 51. David Makovsky 52. David Mamet 53. David Remnick 54. Debbie Schlussel 55. Dennis Prager 56. Dennis Ross 57. Dick Morris 58. Dore... more... - Sean McBride

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Any others? - Sean McBride

Great List. One comment: may be easier 9and shorter) to list non-Jewish commentators (of some record)? - Danaa

What would be interesting would be to list the non-Jewish commentators who are militant Likud Zionists. (That is doable, and I will do it later.) Being a militant Likud Zionist is a smart career move for non-Jews in the mainstream media racket. In fact, often being anything but is the kiss of death. - Sean McBride

Allis Radosh, wife of Ron; Ari Shapiro, NPR White House correspondent; Yochi Dreazen - Solon

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: anonymouscomments

guess it alway depends on the moderater you get. surprised MW let this one through: http://mondoweiss.net/2012...

April 21, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

Hey anon, they have been letting this gildag commenter get away with blanket smears of christians, muslims and leftists. In not so many words, he effectively calls MW - and all other commenters - anti-semitic. Now, what would happen to posters who started comments with "Jews are....(insert something derogatory)" or "All Jews want is to take over the world"? so much for uniform comment policy. - Danaa

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BTW, I had my share of comments that I was surprised they let through. Definitely at least as provocative as anything Atzmon has said (yet, threads that dare mention the name one time too many, regardless of how civil the conversation is, get shut down rather arbitrarily). - Danaa

pretty clear how biased they are. they come down hardest on anti-semitism and things that *might* be *falsely* accused of being anti-semitic. on the other side, they let much go, unless it is beyond overt. i can't say i do not see some logic to the biased policy in the general sense. it allows us to see the racists for who they are, and rebut their stunted view of the world. but i do... more... - anonymouscomments

regarding criticism of a religion, i think if there is a dispassionate and reasoned discussion of problems one might see (intrinsic to the religious text itself, or within a significant portion of the religious adherents themselves at present/historically) it should be fair game. basically, atzmon's lines of thought should be allowed. and we can also criticize aspects of... more... - anonymouscomments

FYI danaa, this was my odd take on "nakba denial" http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - anonymouscomments

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Danaa

The Ever-Closing thread: http://mondoweiss.net/2012....

April 9, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

Have a little fun debate that involves Gilad Atzmon, and TPTB swoop down and close the thread for no particular reason (other than Gilad's name was mentioned and his works debated). There was no acrimony in sight, after the initial accusation made by one, andrew r (a rather unconvincing debater) which were especially well countered by the unperturbed, temperate, always cogent tree. It's getting to be quite obvious and super-silly, as if Gilad single-handedly represents the greatest threat to Jewishkind. Interestingly, it's hard not to notice that GA generates some of the best debates around, so evidently there must be something in what he says that gets people quite involved. I have seen no other good debates lately on MW. Perhaps, there's nothing to debate? - Danaa

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To me, the bizarre attitudes taken by the Jewish post-zionists illustrate how far apart the Jewish communities have grown from the Israeli one. Back in my days, we used to think in Israel of the "diaspora" Jews as shrinking violets, slightly effete, without much of a stomach for a proper fight, a little light on the brawn. Their approach to combat seemed to always to first withdraw,... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- but I still find the editorial quality and informational value of the lead articles on Mondoweiss (especially Phil's) to be impressive. (In his daring iconoclasm, Gilad Atzmon strikes one as being very Jewish in the most positive sense -- he is stirring the pot, provoking valuable discussion, speaking truth to power, etc.) - Sean McBride

HOORAY, I'm back after countless contortions. Handle is a little different, you'll notice.. I couldn't logon and was getting Israeli Captcha requirements [!!!] after over 60 tries. *** that said *** You're right Danaa. I read that piece of dreck andrew r wrote. There was no logic. It was a complaint about literary form: is it satire or not; at least, that's what his smarmy attempt at... more... - MRW_8

You'll also notice that Hostage can say some of the same things that Blankfort said, which got B banned, but H gets away with it. An H takes on some of the Atzmon haters for what they are: vacant. - MRW_8

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: MRW

Danaa's excellent comment on Beinart and how Israelis don't really give a damn what he thinks (as long as he distracts) underscores the self-congratulatory but ineffective results of Jews-for-Pals activists. http://mondoweiss.net/2012...

March 21, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

Thanks MRW. Sweet of you to commend, but it was just a rant [OK, one of the better ones]. Agree with what you say, too. I wish I didn't feel compelled to do that looking through the glass darkly bit. Anything you know I could cheer for (could to learn to chant instead of rant in a jiffy)? - Danaa

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Rants are much mo' bettah. EDIT: You're not "looking through the glass darkly." You're cleaning one line of sight through the dirty glass. Everyone else is looking at it and seeing (admiring) their reflections. - MRW

Where did the comments go? - MRW

MRW -- which comments where? - Sean McBride

The goblins must be out. Now they're back. I s.w.e.a.r. they disappeared. Swear. ;-) - MRW

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: American

The Smearing of Aztmon -this is not an article, but an example http://www.amazon.com/Wanderi...

March 14, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

mark e liked this

I went to order Aztmon's book at Amazon and was looking thru reviews and saw that whizbang!!...the article or letter or whatever Adam featured on MW was posted as a 'review of his book' ..on March 12th. Don't tell me there isn't a concerted campaign to smear this guy. I am disgusted that MW took part in or is part of this typical zio nazi tactic.. I should have the book in a week and want to see for myself exaclty what is that is so dangerous about him to the Jews. - American

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Welcome to the world of zionist/Jewish supremacist smear tactics, American. These people are no different than hitler youth. - mark e

I think if Atzmon had not left Judaism and adopted Islam, much of that hatred he gets from Jewish people and sabbath goys wouldn't be there. They take it as total betrayal of the "tribe". Their chauvinistic intolerance basically proves what Atzmon says about the tribal mentality. The israelis take advantage of this tribal mentality every chance they get. This is why they have their... more... - mark e

For the record, I have no opinion on Gilad Atzmon, having never read him. Mark I just want to be clear here. Are you calling Ali Abunimah and Omar Barghouti "sabbath goys"? Do you doubt the integrity of the Palestinian signatories to the call for disavowal on all subjects or just when it comes to this one man? - GuiltyFeat

I think also that Atzmon is causing the left of the peace movemet to feel boxed in with the other Orthodox, and right wing groups, and they despise him for it. 'How dare he'... This is analogous to Democrats admonishing an Independent rep. in the house and it comes off as trite. They want Atzmon to heel, and of course his response was 'i will do nothing of the sort'. This letter seemed to backfire. I sort of cringed when it was posted and said 'not this again'. - Chu

Chu - It's not Atzmon who is boxing in this so-called left with the rightwingers, it's themselves who are doing it, by following totally corrupt leaders who have from the beginning worked to disempower the left. Due to sabotage of people like the signers of those smear letters, the left has been losing ground in the west, in fact, it's mostly gone now. The reason it is so easy for these... more... - mark e

mark you talk in vague threats. What exactly would you expect the Palestinians to do to Omar Barghouti now that he signed this letter? - GuiltyFeat

Chu...what you said sounds most correct to me. - American

I don't think name calling is helpful. From what I have seen and experienced in more than 40 years on this issue this political witch hunt is the predictable result of the fact that the Palestinian solidarity movement in the US has been dominated to an extraordinary degree by Jewish tribalists who have been able to stifle any overt criticism by Palestinian-Americans of the key role... more... - Jeff Blankfort

Very well said, Jeffrey. Kind of what I have been railing about - it's so obvious that there is a deflection exercise going on. Don't look here - where the good Jewish people of America are, look there - and only there - concentrate strictly on what Israel does. Ignoring the obvious - that israel does what it does and will continue to do so, as long as it has the complete support of the... more... - Danaa

I really appreciate you two (Jeff and Danaa) for your candor and straight-talking. [I realize they are the same thing, but there are nuances to both expressions/defintions.] - MRW

How many Palestinians does the Israeli Mossad currently have under its control? Probably thousands at least. They are easy targets for recruitment and manipulation. Many of them probably don't know who is pulling their strings. - Sean McBride

What all this always boils down to for me in terms of ending I/P and Isr'merica is this>>>1) 6 million Jews in the US, the largest groups of Jews outside of Israel, "generally" support Israel. 2) The "Zionist" head this support up. 3) And the Zionist have taken over congress and US policy and made Israel a platform of both US political parties. 4) And the Zionist control/influence of... more... - American

American - we have the internet, the zionists have not shut that down yet, though they are trying like mad to do so. We also have word of mouth. Talking to people, and reading what people write on the web, I believe that people are really fed up with Jewish zionist influence. Personally, I think the dam is close to bursting. - mark e

We can keep trying mark e, I think it helps. Stopped to gas my car earlier and got into conversation with woman who made remark about gas prices. She thought the US wanted to 'control' the ME oil, I disabused her of that idea by explaining why the US doesn't 'need to" control ME oil to get all the oil we want. I gave her the urls for mondo, Walt, raceforiran and AIPAC and told her if she 'really' wants to know why she is paying close to $5 a gal for gas to check it out. Maybe she will. - American

Helen Thomas was at Atzmon's first event in Washington, DC. Norman Mezvinsky, co-author with the late Israel Shahak, interviewed Atzmon. Atzmon appeared in the same church meeting room where the Occupy AIPAC conference had been held 10 days earlier. The difference was palpable: OccupyAIPAC is run by gatekeepers who lead a bit of cheerleading and, in my opinion, ineffective street... more... - Solon

American, you asked above, What can we do? What you can stop doing is censoring and name calling people like Landon who take certain facts to their logical conclusion -- a concept Sr. Luke taught us all some years ago. You and Sean call me a Nazi and a holocaust denier. Think about this for a minute -- Why is holocaust such a protected topic? If it is true as the Received Narrative... more... - Solon

Well Solon whoever you are, I didn't call Landon a nazi or a holocaust denier. I said he was "obsessed" with the past history---just as you are evidently. - American

American - Engdahl gives a pretty good run down of the reason behind the higher oil prices here: Why The Huge Spike in Oil Prices? "Peak Oil" or Wall Street Speculation? http://www.globalresearch.ca/index... Guess which firm has a lot of influence in the corruption. ;) See also his older article here: ‘Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation’ http://www.globalresearch.ca/index... - mark e

mark e I agree and think there has been sufficient proof that speculation in oil is just like speculation in any other commodity and the commodities market is speculation on what will happen, whether it is betting on what the weather will be that influences some crop production or whatever. In a lot of ways they are like serious odds gamblers on sports teams and games. I have a cousin... more... - American

Interesting info, American, I had not seen that way of going about the speculation described before. I imagine such is done frequently by the "little guys". Have you ever heard of a site called "The Oil Drum" http://www.theoildrum.com/ ? It's a forum used by people in the energy businesses to "talk shop". There is a lot of bias of the sort one would expect of this kind of site, but often there is info that is useful, too. - mark e

mark e, Atzmon did not 'leave' Judaism and become Muslim. He left Israel, and considers himself a "Palestinian who speaks Hebrew;" in his book he discusses his great fondness for Arabic music and life perspective, but he did not become a Muslim. His first self definition is Humanist. - Solon

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