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Danaa › Comments

MW's commentors are going to start looking elsewhere to have discussions soon. If you cut it at 2 days' time, people practically cannot have more than two exchanges with eachother. I recommend adding a link to MW on Friendfeed in our MW Personal Profiles, so that people will know about Friendfeed.
I would actually suggest a new FriendFeed thread devoted only to MW articles - sort of a mirror site. That might help make it more of a neutral place, especially if someone like you for example volunteers to be the owner. This Sean feed is broader and it can get confusing plus it has a history and a 'relationship"/"history" with the geese who enjoy flocking here now and then. Sometimes... more... - Danaa
The alternative is to start another blog maybe using one of the free forums for starters. Trouble is, as MW and everyone else has found out, moderation becomes a must. - Danaa
Danaa -- Friendfeed provides a flexible platform on which to create groups and discussion spaces on the fly, based on any combination of Friendfeed users, and to perpetually reconfigure them according to any criteria, but it requires a proactive effort by users to exploit these tools. Most people are passive -- they like to be herded within predefined channels -- they don't know how to take the initiative. - Sean McBride
MW commenters should make an effort to build communications channels with one another outside of MW. But few of them are taking the initiative. They don't seem to understand yet that the Internet has revolutionized the world. They are living in a pre-Internet mindset. - Sean McBride
Philip Weiss has shown great leadership abilities in creating and developing Mondoweiss -- he has forced the world to revolve around him. That takes vision and energy. - Sean McBride
Compare the content streams of Mondoweiss and Good for the Goose -- it requires a great deal of talent and hard work to create a high-value Web publication and forum. Nothing is preventing Good for the Goose from creating a content stream that is superior to Mondoweiss -- other than talent and effort. - Sean McBride
Danna -- creating a pure mirror site for Mondoweiss is simple (it takes only a minute or two to set up). But you will need a moderator to keep it on track. The current Mondoweiss on Friendfeed permits users to make their own original posts -- not simply respond to Mondoweiss articles. I like it that way. - Sean McBride
Hostage loves to lay out detailed legal ideas. His writing will take a hit as he likes to discuss with others. - WJones
Sean, it's one thing to say people have no initiative, it's anotherto get people to contribute. The fact is MW commenters do not flock here for a reason. There is something about the simple format of friendfeed that is a bit of a turnoff for many knowledgeable and thorough commenters. Hostage MUST have quotation capability in order for his posts to make sense, for example. Others like... more... - Danaa
No way someone like me will not post lengthy paragraphs. It's just the way I woek. I can edit it later but don't always have the time or the justification. - Danaa
That being said friendfeed is great for one-on-one or a very small group discussions where interference from others not interested in the topic is kept to a minimum. - Danaa
just my own little thoughts. I was always interested in the question of which interface works for whom. - Danaa
OK, I updated my MW profile to tell people to come to FF. - WJones
Danaa -- Friendfeed is much more powerful and flexible than old school blog platforms for sharing and discussing news and information. Many Mondoweiss members are quite old and not tech-savvy (quite a few of them can barely manage HTML), and so I am not surprised that the sophisticated feature set of Friendfeed is impenetrable to them. Friendfeed is to old school blogs as a Ferrari is... more... - Sean McBride
# Some Friendfeed features one needs to fully master to "get it": 1. Best of Day, Week and Month 2. Bookmarklet (for fast sharing of Web pages to Friendfeed from one's browser) 3. My Discussions (keep track of your discussions across multiple feeds and groups) 4. advanced search operators 5. blocks (hide what you don't want to see) 6. change picture 7. change theme 8. direct messages... more... - Sean McBride
I'll wager that most long essays don't get read in the comment sections of blogs -- I know I tend to skip over them (even Hostage's). Brief comments usually have much more impact than verbose essays. It is easy to post long essays on platforms like Tumblr and point to them in one's forum comments. And it is easy to break paragraphs and quotes into separate comments on Friendfeed. - Sean McBride
Perhaps one could append this to the end of Mondoweiss comments: [If this discussion is closed, it can be continued here: ] - Sean McBride
This group got off to a bad start because some hardcore antisemites tried to hijack it from the start -- their activities were very damaging and it took awhile to sort out that problem. - Sean McBride
# Friendfeed vs. traditional blogs 1. bottom-up vs. top-down 2. more "libertarian" (less authoritarian) 3. more agile 4. more democratic 5. more flexible 6. more user-centric 7. speedier - Sean McBride
Friendfeed is for fast brains. - Sean McBride
Sean, I skip over most short comments -on MW - the undeveloped or partially developed thought is of no concern to me, which is why I don't even notice many of the posters. I despise twitter too - it's completely useless to me - just a time swamp. Some people tend to interact with the world like it was some kind of a reality show, with little quips and side-bars. By all means they can do their thing, as long as I am not forced to consult their one-liners or pointless kudos or other half-formed sentences. - Danaa
The creator of Friendfeed, Paul Buchheit, also created Gmail -- which is a brilliant mail reader. Most people don't know how to exploit most of its features. (For his efforts, Paul is now worth in the neighborhood of $600 million, last I checked. :)) - Sean McBride
Mark Zuckerberg (of Facebook) purchased Friendfeed from Paul and his associates and has done nothing with it. - Sean McBride
Friendfeed presents a lot of issues for people who prefer to think more deeply. Real important ideas or concepts cannot be developed in 100,000 one-liners - that's just not the way it works for some of us. - Danaa
It took me just a few minutes to toss off these comments and post them here immediately -- I can't do that on Mondoweiss. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- there is no restriction on the complexity and depth of thoughts one can post here -- you just need to develop a different model in your head of how this interface works. - Sean McBride
As far as Zuckerberg and his pathetic facebook goes, no wonder everyone is gravitating elsewhere. I have every expectation that this nerdy social worker will do nothing with friendfeed. In fact, if he did it would probably be just to ruin it. - Danaa
Friendfeed is very different than Twitter: from an initial post one can develop your ideas to whatever level of depth you choose. - Sean McBride
I have never been able to stand Facebook -- yuck. It's a mess. - Sean McBride
Sean, I have absolutely no desire to develop another "model" of interfacing with others. Given the huge number of ideas I'm still wrestling with and need to get to, plus the books and essays I still need to read, there is but scant time left for one liners, unless they beget the in depth analysis I'm interested in. - Danaa
The exchange we are having right now, basically in chat mode -- it can't happen on Mondoweiss. Mondoweiss is as slow as molasses -- assuming that your posts even get through. - Sean McBride
The best place to post long articles is on one's own blog -- Tumblr is a good choice; there are other worthy platforms. - Sean McBride
Also, I despise the iPhone model of "communicating" and usually refuse to reply to any text messages. My inbox is full of them and people either get a call back or they are ignored. I also don't care for GPS because I like getting lost there. Speed of communication is hardly the thing that bothers me the most. It is the absence of content worth considering that bugs me. - Danaa
Have you really noticed no valuable and thoughtful content in this group? :) - Sean McBride
I have done intense comparisons of Friendfeed and Google+. Google+ does indeed permit traditional paragraphs, but I've found that the overall Google+ experience is too messy and cluttered compared to Friendfeed. Conversations do not move as fluidly. - Sean McBride
Mondoweiss is really not for real-time chats and frankly, just as well. They deal in highly controversial and touchy subjects, many literally life and death issues. The last thing they need is the Facebook style of curses, retorts and assorted mendacities. It is, after all, a blog and [used to be] a forum for exchanging ideas. Like all blogs it is subject to the whims and preferences of... more... - Danaa
The pressures that Mondoweiss is under can be avoided entirely on a platform like Friendfeed, where there is no centralized control. Think about it. - Sean McBride
I am not saying that I didn't come across valuable thoughts, references and ideas in this forum. I like exchanging ideas with you on most things. It's just that I am confounded by the fact that there are not more who gravitate here. may be confounded is not the right word. - Danaa
Most MW commenters feel comfortable with centralized control and authority -- they would feel completely adrift here. On Friendfeed you need to establish your own ground of operations. Friendfeed is a perfect example of a self-organizing system (or an infinitely expanding collection of self-organizing systems). - Sean McBride
I do agree that friendfeed - being a free-for-all can avoid some of the problems that plague MW. However this too will change if the forum became popular. I don't think you had to deal yet too much with the nutty ziobots (some of whom are really avatars rather than actual persons). Frankly, individuals like pepsi are a joy compared with the real crazy bots. I guess I'm saying that... more... - Danaa
More later - time's up for me now. Gotta get some [real] work done. - Danaa
Moderators of Friendfeed groups can easily weed out the bad apples. And the bad apples can easily create their own groups -- which is as it should be. - Sean McBride
Later. Let me point out once again: we couldn't have had this kinetic real-time conversation on any blog. - Sean McBride
One can do amazingly clever things with Friendfeed advanced search. For instance, all the items I have "liked" recently: Mondoweiss (and blogs in general) do not operate anywhere near this level for quick and dirty data mining. As I said, it's all about fast brains. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Guidelines for Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: be civil, reasonable, well-informed and well-documented.
Simple. - Sean McBride
Don't be abusive or bullying. Know what you are talking about. - Sean McBride
Don't try to incite hatred against entire ethnic groups or religions. Be surgical in your criticism. - Sean McBride
The practical reason for being civil: it encourages useful exchanges. Abusive posters undercut their own message and ability to communicate effectively. - Sean McBride
lots of people on MW (eg, the ziobots) are hardly interested in condusive discussions. They just want to disrupt the flow. You are assuming the net world is full of people interested in "civil" exchange. A cursory look at any comment section anywhere will show that there will be a substantial percentage of people who are not into civility. - Danaa
and phil doesn't want to disrupt the flow? Just the ziobots that he lets run wild? - pepsi
everybody deserves to have their too-precious red lines crossed, and be called out. - pepsi
hostage could do the circle jerk with the bots forever. What makes you alterna-bots think he's unhappy in the repressive mondoghetto? - pepsi
Sean McBride
The future of the Palestinians
You know, there is a major factor in the Palestinian situation that I don't see many people noticing or commenting on: the Arab world overall seems to be showing decreasing interest in the plight of the Palestinians and in fighting for their rights. - Sean McBride
Many Americans and Europeans may be thinking, if Arab governments themselves aren't up in arms about the suffering of the Palestinians, why should we be? - Sean McBride
The future of the Palestinians could be very bleak indeed. Israel and the Israel lobby are determined to crush their spirit, and possibly to spirit them out of them of Greater Israel in large numbers. Power elites in the United States and Europe seem to be unwilling to get into a real fight with Israel and the Israel lobby over these policies and plans -- the personal costs of doing so... more... - Sean McBride
They had an "Arab boycott." And it's important to Middle Easterners. But it's not an issue in front of their faces. They care about their own countries too. - WJones
Yeah. In case of a war, what is stopping them from driving out the Pals? I think some people left in the Nakba because they thought it might be a total genocide, but it didn't happen, so they didn't all leave. It will be tough for the Israelis to kill or deport most Palestinians logistically and in terms of politics. They were not so open about the Nakba when it happened and they still aren't, and that makes it harder to implement in the face of opposing factors. - WJones
How many Iraqis did we kill, maim or displace in the Iraq War? How many Americans care? - Sean McBride
Destroying the shrines on the Temple Mount and ethnic cleansing the West Bank are two things that would be difficult to achieve. - WJones
Easy to achieve under the cover of a generalized war between the West and Islam. - Sean McBride
The Israel lobby, through an endless stream of propaganda in popular culture, has largely succeeded in dehumanizing and demonizing Arabs and Muslims in the minds of most Americans. - Sean McBride
There are what, 5 million Palestinians? They would have to kill and expel maybe 4 million of them to replicate the 5-1 ratio Slater had in mind for the land inside the Green Line. It will be harder to expel them than the Nakba. That is why the Naksa didn't work. hey realized the israelis weren't going to kill them all like the Turks did to the Armenians. - WJones
They've been dehumanized, but not enough that Americans would be OK with the deaths. They would not like it. Now would they actually stop it? If the elites were OK with it, probably not. I don't know if the Elites are mostly OK with such a genocide, and I think most Israelis aren't. - WJones
Bush said privately that the occupation was really bad. - WJones
Where was the American concern over Iraqi deaths? Madeleine Albright: the deaths of a half million Iraqi children were worth it (regarding sanctions). Americans are being primed to commit or accept genocide. - Sean McBride
Weak concern by a minority. - WJones
I see you are being realistic. I want to too. - WJones
There would have to be generalized war and a desire by enough Israelis to kill them and the US elites "OK-ing" it. - WJones
I am not saying it is going to happen, but there is a chance that it could happen. - Sean McBride
An observer, maybe Finkelstein, said they are looking for the chance. - WJones
They were not always proactive. They waited for the chance and then took it in 1967 to seize the land. - WJones
The chance would have to present itself. It would require a big operation to deport or kill 4 million people when they will be less willing to leave. They left because they thought the Nakba was going to be temporary in 1947. - WJones
Where there is a will there is a way. - Sean McBride
Privately Netanyahu spoke of killing them like sick animals. Publicly he has said that ethnic cleansing is not acceptable. - WJones
You know how these things work -- there are the public statements and there are the actual thoughts and deeds. - Sean McBride
Ok, so Yes, like I said, the US elites would have to OK it because they rely on the US. Granted, they did not need anyone's OK in 1947-48. - WJones
Someone should collect genocidal statements by modern Israeli leaders to show this. - WJones
Off to a restaurant -- will pick this up later. - Sean McBride
No, stay. - WJones
My wife is nagging me. :) Hold that thought. - Sean McBride
Yeah, I guess your right. If they get into a war with Egypt and Lebanon, they could expel them. But I dont think they will fight Egypt again. They already fought Lebanon in the 1980's and didnt do the expulsion then. - WJones
Herzl's plan was to deny them jobs and get them to leave that way. - WJones
This seems to be what they do- deny them opportunities to stay and get along. - WJones
W. Jones - you better believe that day and night the brilliant Jewish minds of israel - and not too few outside - are trying to figure out a way in which they could "get rid" of the Palestinians. They don't yet have an answer, but like Sean says, they are waiting for an opportunity. The shocking thing is that most israelis (say, 80%, to be generous?) would find a way to sleep OK if all... more... - Danaa
What's stopping it all? actually, believe it or not, it is partly the American Jews. The majority of whom, including those who care little about I/P just are not ready to stomach a real genocide or even a serious exile. The American jews, unlike the israelis, will NOT be able to get a good night sleep, while their bretherns do the evil deeds. That, you might say, is the positive role... more... - Danaa
But that's only now. Tomorrow, who knows? and therein lies the trouble. I believe that's why the shenanigans of humanitarian intervention a-la-Syria and Libya play such an important role. they serve to split that progressive gatekeeping community. Ukraine too. Throw a stink bomb right in the midst of this crowd - have them turn on each other. isn't that what happened on MW when the... more... - Danaa
OK, I am not saying that it's ONLY "progressive" jews that are preventing israel from doing ewhat it so desires to do. There are the Christian denominations, and the real humanists, jewish and not, around the world. Trouble is, to israel, it is only the Jews that count. And you better believe that too. There's hardly a universal bone to be found in the entirety of the Holy land among the so-called chosen. - Danaa
And speaking of "chosen", I have it on good authority that 'choseness' has been kind of redefined by them that chose in the first place. All myths have an expiration date and the stamp for this one is drawing near.... - Danaa
"They don't yet have an answer, but like Sean says, they are waiting for an opportunity. The shocking thing is that most israelis (say, 80%, to be generous?) would find a way to sleep OK if all the palestinians somehow disappeared tomorrow."..."As long as there are enough jewish Americans who won't be able to sleep on genocide, Israel will not be able to proceed as it wishes." Wishful... more... - pepsi
If America's Jews didn't support genocide of palestinians and arabs generally, the mondojews wouldn't be silent on Syria, Ukraine, and the obvious plan to cleanse the west bank as soon as a war can be started with iran. Lebanon will get genocided too, and the strong majority of us jews knows all of this when they demonize iran like jon stewart does regularly. - pepsi
When Leb 06 and Cast Lead 08 were going down, most american jews were in Kahane mode. Facts were details to be twisted to support the mass murder. Same thing when they framed assad for the gas attack in syria last fall, and the millions of syrian, iraqi, and palestinian refugees. America's jews overwhelmingly couldn't care less, at best, and mostly relish this 20 year ongoing genocide, which Danaa likes to pretend are separate 'wars'. - pepsi
And probably the real reason most american jews support toppling Iran, Russia, and Ukraine is because those places were/are no longer controlled by Jews. The same overwhelming majority that thinks jewish rule of the US and the media are good things, also resents that Putin and the Iranians are bastards for limiting the jewish power over those countries. The Shah's secret police were trained by mossad, after all. - pepsi
The Iranian people and government have not abandoned the Palestinians, and are paying the price for it. Last summer the American Iranian Council hosted an event in NYC. Among others, former ambassador Robert Hunter spoke, and said that "Iran should get over its Israel thing; they don't care about the Palestinians, they should just stay out of it." - ChasMark
The predominantly Iranian-American audience was unambiguous and highly assertive in contradicting Hunter's poorly thought out declamations. An Iranian-American professor at a university in Connecticut summarized the consensus view: Israel is abusing Palestinians and Muslims; Iranians find that behavior intolerable. Among the factors that Iranians protested as early as 1973 and thru 1978 was the treatment of Palestinian Muslims and the failure of the Shah to speak out on their behalf. - ChasMark
Iraq paid the price for supporting palestine as well. 1.5 million+ dead, and millions of refugees. - pepsi
the ottoman empire paid the price for supporting palestine 100 years ago. The jewish led and financed young turks genocided the armenian christians to empower the court jews. - pepsi
how do you know the young turks were Jewish? At least, the people who did the killing were generally not Jewish. - WJones
Pepsi, I'm afraid you didn't quite get my point, which was about a subset of American jews, ie, those that consider themselves "progressives" AND voice opinions on matters of foreign policy and I/P. All I said is that their opinions and positions do matter to israel, if only because Israeli powers understand the influence members of this group have within the Democrat American... more... - Danaa
IMO, pepsi you are generalizing to the point that can only lead to a complete paralysis of action. Personally I have no interest in defending Jews as a class or feeding them to the wolves. But I do have great interest in seeing more voices speak out against evil carried out and still greater evil planned. So, Democracy Now cannot go everywhere (like 9/11 or 7/7) and remain on the air.... more... - Danaa
As you can see Pepsi, your direction and mine, are kind of on different plains. You spend much time parsing blame for malfeasance (of which there is plenty) and fortelling repercussions. I look at the tactics and strategies Israel is likely to employ - along with its like-minded tribal enablers, of left and right - in the hope that some of those could at least be blunted or delayed by... more... - Danaa
Danaa, you still think it is okay for Chomsky to say it doesn't matter if 911 was an inside/outside job. And then you pretend to want to minimize and delay the next one. You like to bs and wring your fingers, but you still have some massive red lines that are more important to you than seeing the world as it is. I can understand how depressing it all must be, but their are other things in the world that matter, like genocide and shock doctrine based world wars. - pepsi
The problem with you pepsi is that you care more about the "who done it" of 9/11 than about the fate of the palestinians, or for that matter, the fate of the Syrian people subjected now to destruction by the PTB of the US/Britain/French/Turkish/saudi Arabian axis of evil. Or the fate of the east Ukrainians, or that of the people subjected to torture and mayhem by an unholy combination... more... - Danaa
As for Chomsky - he may have said all kinds of things over the years, many of which I would no doubt not agree with. he may have been more of a liberal zionist than he admits and he may have tortured all kind of truths to make them yield something more to his liking. But he is over 80 years old now, and If I ever reach his age and find myself guilty of just one major fib or sidelining... more... - Danaa
It wouldn't occur to you to research what chomsky said about 911, how many times he said it, and with what sophisticated linguistic diabolicality. You come from the same sociopathic cult ideology as him, where all is forgiven for the right people. Choose your own reality and pretend there's nothing sociopathic about that. - pepsi
I bust you not really giving a shit about 9/11, and you cheaply and defensively and baselessly accuse me of not caring about the genocide in syria, iraq, and ukraine. Only in magical danaa land. - pepsi
Yes, Chomsky deserves credit for speaking out about Gaza. He is very outspoken on IP. But I question some of his positions, and Finkelstein said Chomsky is his main mentor. Finkelstein talks about how we must rally around International Law. International law says refugees get to return to their homes. But Chomsky and Finkelstein are against that. - WJones
Unfortunately, the world has seen psychopathic rulers like in Chile, Indonesia, Germany, and 1918 Turkey who do not care much about what other rulers or other countries' publics think. Turkey has a really hard time recognizing the Armenian genocide, and I am sure that most Germans would not have supported genocide. It of course helps tremendously the more that Americans and American Jews are opposed to ethnic cleansing. - WJones
Finkelstein's blueprint for success is retarded, no offense to retards. He says that we should not look for the Palestinian solidarity to be a main force, equality can only happen if Palestinians lead the way. Excuse me, but is that the attitude we have toward prison reform? That prisoners must be the main force of resistance if they are to be treated like people with basic rights? - WJones
Hello, Pepsi. You said to Danaa: " You come from the same sociopathic cult ideology as him." Please give her break. Thanks. - WJones
Not sure why you are tearing into Danaa, Pepsi. She isn't Chomsky and she doesn't admire him like say Keith of whomever. This last Finklestein thing made me really sick. What the fuck is wrong with this guy to say these things about BDS? I feel like all the decades he was making noise and drawing attention in the USA to the conflict, and now he is shitting on a plan that would work that... more... - Chu_
Finkelstein said that after no longer being a Maoist, he turned to Chomsky. It's cool if you are talking about SE Asia or South America, bu Chomsky has a bias, he admits he may have, about he Holy Land. - WJones
I am appalled by the attacks on Danaa but I am staying out of it this time around -- previously Danaa has expressed the view that I have been exaggerating the degree of antisemitism and Judeophobia in some sectors of the anti-Zionist camp. Ok. - Sean McBride
Danaa, you understand that Israel did 9/11, correct? - JustTheFactsPlease
There is no firm proof that Israel was involved in 9/11 -- only circumstantial evidence and speculation. In the cases of Watergate and Iran-Contra we had concrete and solid evidence. In any case, there is no way that Israel could have participated in a 9/11 false flag op without the full cooperation of powerful factions within the American government that are dominated by non-Jews. - Sean McBride
So its the fault of the goyim that Israel did 9/11, gotcha - JustTheFactsPlease
We still don't know who was behind 9/11 -- it's shrouded behind an iron wall of obfuscation. - Sean McBride
All the evidence available points to Israel, fact. - JustTheFactsPlease
The *circumstantial* evidence points in numerous directions -- including towards Saudi Arabia. - Sean McBride
I respect Alan Sabrosky, but there is no concrete proof or evidence in that article to support the claim that Israel was behind 9/11, either as the sole actor or as a team player. He is speculating -- and speculations can be dangerous when pushed forward without sufficient grounding in the real world. The circumstantial evidence pointing to Saudi Arabia as the culprit is at least as strong as that pointing to Israel or the American military-industrial-intelligence complex. - Sean McBride
One good guess? 9/11 was a neocon op involving elements of the American, Israeli, Saudi and British governments -- but that is still just a guess, not a nailed-down case. - Sean McBride
"The circumstantial evidence pointing to Saudi Arabia as the culprit is at least as strong as that pointing to Israel " List it - JustTheFactsPlease
nope, i want a McBride style list - JustTheFactsPlease
All the info you need is available in the top 100 hits for that search -- explore on your own. I am working on other matters at the moment. - Sean McBride
McBride is a just a common man, workin hard with his hands, he's AMERICAN DREAM! - JustTheFactsPlease
"After the 9/11 attacks, the public was told al Qaeda acted alone, with no state sponsors. But the White House never let it see an entire section of Congress’ investigative report on 9/11 dealing with “specific sources of foreign support” for the 19 hijackers, 15 of whom were Saudi nationals. It was kept secret and remains so today. President Bush inexplicably censored 28 full pages of... more... - Sean McBride
28 censored pages weigh more than the combined mass of the five dancing Israelis, surely.... - JustTheFactsPlease
*Smart* people look at *all* the data and try to figure out how it fits together. They don't pick and choose among the data or try to jam it into a predefined conspiracy theory. Perhaps Dusty Rhodes hasn't instructed you in these basic truth-seeking methods. - Sean McBride
"The Saudis deny any role in 9/11, but the CIA in one memo reportedly found “incontrovertible evidence” that Saudi government officials — not just wealthy Saudi hardliners, but high-level diplomats and intelligence officers employed by the kingdom — helped the hijackers both financially and logistically. The intelligence files cited in the report directly implicate the Saudi embassy in... more... - Sean McBride
I have wined and dined with kings and queens and I’ve slept in alleys and dined on pork and beans, but I must admit that I am having a hard time seeing how the Saudis look to be implictaed MORE than the Israelis, given the available evidence. - JustTheFactsPlease
We don't know the more or less yet -- not enough data. But we have good reason to suspect that multiple high-level players were involved. - Sean McBride
Admit it, you've been watching wrestling clips on youtube the last few days - JustTheFactsPlease
"LOS ANGELES: Saudi consulate official Fahad al-Thumairy allegedly arranged for an advance team to receive two of the Saudi hijackers — Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi — as they arrived at LAX in 2000. One of the advance men, Omar al-Bayoumi, a suspected Saudi intelligence agent, left the LA consulate and met the hijackers at a local restaurant. (Bayoumi left the United States two months before the attacks, while Thumairy was deported back to Saudi Arabia after 9/11.)" - Sean McBride
"SAN DIEGO: Bayoumi and another suspected Saudi agent, Osama Bassnan, set up essentially a forward operating base in San Diego for the hijackers after leaving LA. They were provided rooms, rent and phones, as well as private meetings with an American al Qaeda cleric who would later become notorious, Anwar al-Awlaki, at a Saudi-funded mosque he ran in a nearby suburb. They were also feted at a welcoming party. (Bassnan also fled the United States just before the attacks.)" - Sean McBride
"WASHINGTON: Then-Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar and his wife sent checks totaling some $130,000 to Bassnan while he was handling the hijackers. Though the Bandars claim the checks were “welfare” for Bassnan’s supposedly ill wife, the money nonetheless made its way into the hijackers’ hands." - Sean McBride
What does Alan Sabrosky have to say about these facts? - Sean McBride
"they needed local help within America (and perhaps elsewhere) and they had it, principally from some alumni of PNAC (the misnamed Project for a New American Century) and their affiliates within and outside of the US Government (USG), who in the 9/11 attacks got the “catalytic event” they needed and craved to take the US to war on Israel’s behalf, only eight months after coming into office." - JustTheFactsPlease
Haven't seen anything new from him since last september, I will do a more thorough search later. You keep on keepin on with that common man boogie daddy - JustTheFactsPlease
Bottom line on my best guess: there is a better than even chance that 9/11 was a neocon op that involved factions within multiple governments. But I can't go beyond that speculation based on the current available information. About the 9/11 anthrax attacks, I don't have the slightest doubt: they were a false flag op. - Sean McBride
Glad you brought up the anthrax attacks, Sean. Those were so totally obviously a false flag, yet, for some strange reason the 9/11 people seem to ignore it. Why? may be biological mysteries are less intriguing than missiles and bombs? or may be it's too much of a foregone conclusion to give enough material? or may be just not enough people died and some were "just" postal workers? - Danaa
Also, I agree that whatever went down on 9/11 would have required multiple agencies to co-operate. Israel (mossad) would be just one. They would however have to have had logistics and tactical support by an American agency or two. Which could be rogue cliques in the CIA/FBI, among others, supported/aided by the Cheney office. Plus, of course, Saudi Arabia for providing the terrorists... more... - Danaa
Naturally, my interests would be unsatisfactory for pepsi and the like. For whom the "Israel done it" is enough. For me it's no more enough than saying that Mossad was involved in the kennedy assassination (which I believe it was). But the emphasis is on "involved" and "More than one agency", in which case, the "how could they pull it off" becomes the overriding question. - Danaa
Where i come up against the largest obstacle - the US military. If we, out in the world, speculate, so do they. Possible for some or another military agency to have been involved but they couldn't possibly swear all the branches into silence. I am quite certain there are many military people speculating and wondering and likely asking questions. But I'm having serious issues figuring... more... - Danaa
There, I divided my original lengthy comment into two parts. just to make you happy Sean :) - Danaa
Danaa -- our thinking seems to be in sync on this issue. I agree that if there was an insider plot, only very few people (from multiple nations) were in on it. As to why so many high-level patriots have remained silent on the controversy (many haven't, by the way), one assumes that the conspirators are so powerful that they could destroy the lives of troublemakers -- cut them down the moment they raised their heads. - Sean McBride
People who push this controversy into "the Jews did it" meme -- completely off their rockers. Much worse than charging that "the Jews" were behind the Iraq War. Unhinged. - Sean McBride
When it comes to conspiracy speculations, my approach is relatively simple - once the Qui Bono allows whittling down of the perpetrators to just a few key players, then it's all about the ability to execute, the complexity of the job and the power to provide effective post-operation cover-up. Which almost invariably requires multiple players, all acting in unison. So, for example, the... more... - Danaa
So, now we have a whole new major conspiracy tale unfolding: MH370. Alas, here we still have not a clue about the Qui Bono. Another one: hastings' auto "accident". My gut tells me he was done away with. In which case the interesting part is why have the conspiracy buffs been so quiet about this lately? it is this kind of silence that makes me wonder sometimes about who some of those on-line conspiracy buffs really are. - Danaa
Danaa, you admit the obvious that jews control our media, and then you ask why goy whistleblowers havent come forward, lol. Too cute. - pepsi
And if a handful of goyim assisted in 9/11, you jump at the chance to describe it as really complicated and complex, just like a zio talking about the latest ritual mass murder in khazarstan. - pepsi
Jews are the biggest opponents of conspiracy theories whenever they dominate a country. Nobody wants to give up the jewish vice-grip on our media and 'democracy'. Ask a thousand jews about 911, and 950+ will tell you the official zelikow prewritten narrative is legit. - pepsi
the plot was underway as far back as the late 70s, danaa, with the founding of the jonathan (netanyahu) institute. Research it. Hw bush brought the neos into power in 1980, and the jewish mafia replaced bush with clinton in 92, and two months later we got the 93 wtc bombing, with jews and helper goys in all key positions of power. - pepsi
louis freh, fbi director. Albright, secstate. Cohen secdefense. Martin indyck, rahm emanuel, dennis ross, 911 commission co-author jamie gorelick, aka the mistress of disaster, sandy berger, on and on it goes, and that was just the clinton white house, before zelikow led the bush transition 8 months before 9/11. - pepsi
the next thing you'll be telling us is that saudi controls israel, and the jewish media monopoly in the us is really working for the saudis. Anything to spread the blame around, and to run interference for chomsky and greenwald and mondoweiss and all the other gatekeeper heroes of yours who run interference for jewish power and jewish tribal warfare. - pepsi
checkmate, sean and danaa. You lose again. - pepsi
As usual, pepsi, you don't get my point. I didn't ask about the players. I asked about how the play was executed. You tell me (and no, planning from 70's won't help a bit in figuring out how exactly it was pulled off, who needed to be in the know, what the logistics might have been, etc etc. I want to have an idea of the plan on the days and weeks before the attack - not the years of... more... - Danaa
This is not a a "game" for me, pepsi, though may be it is for you. It's a matter of life and death. You may not care about the many dead on that day, but may be some of us do. As we do about the Anthrax victims, a plot which really does point to a conspiracy and which, for some reason you don't want to touch. What, not exciting enough for you? biological warfare not your gig? - Danaa
In case you didn't notice, I care about tactics more than grand geo-political alignments. I am too limited to comment knowledgeably enough on those so a certain refrain may be the better part of valor. - Danaa
I do find it kind of funny that you'd bring up Rahm emanuel and Indik. What, did they train the saudi hijackers? did they provide funding and back-up support? safe houses? what exactly was Emanuel's role on 9/11? sit on a deck for a suntan? please give me instead the names of the military commanders that HAD to be in the know to pull it off, and the units that would need to be informed.... more... - Danaa
pepsi -- I carefully sifted through all this material years ago -- there is not a single concrete fact or solid piece of evidence here that proves that Israel was the mastermind of 9/11 -- just sloppy speculations and wild allegations. You really need to up your truth standards if you want to play with the big boys. - Sean McBride
By the way, I was one of the very first people on the Internet to wonder if Mossad might be involved in 9/11 -- you can look it up (it was published on -- but wondering is one thing, coming to certain and strident conclusions quite another. The Saudi angle on 9/11 has been looking especially promising over the last year or two -- that might be the best line of attack to blow the case open. - Sean McBride
Not Jews: George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, John Ashcroft, George Tenet, Tom Ridge, Robert Gates, George Schultz, etc. Perhaps you dismiss them all as dumb goyim who had no idea about what was going on right under their noses. And what about JCS (the Joint Chiefs of Staff) -- it's not exactly a Jewish club. - Sean McBride
Danaa, still with the cheapshots, and the subect change. Of course i care about the anthrax, and the biologicals that will be released on the nazi goyim as soon as we stop serving israel. This is why 911 and holocaust truth are so important. But 99% of jews are appointed or selfappointed gatekeepers for hebrew nation international. Help us goyim fight the good fight, and leave chomsky, greenwald and the other tribal warriors in your past. - pepsi
Here is a homework exercise for you, Pepsi - the military, for the most part is non-Jewish - at every level - from high to low. Jewish americans do not serve in the military in any substantial numbers. Yet, there HAD to be military participation in the plot somehow. Much was made for example of those jets that were not scrambled on time. So why would any military man, non-Jewish most... more... - Danaa
Note carefully: I am not ruling out the possibility that a faction in Israel may have been involved in 9/11 -- in fact, I stated that I think there is a greater than even chance that 9/11 was a neocon op. But I am not leaping to certain conclusions without solid evidence. - Sean McBride
Sean, I agree about the Saudi angle being a promising one. Though if it is, surely the PTBs can't afford to let it out into the open. I do, BTW< believe that with the saudis in, the mossad involvement is not far behind. In fact, it should be in tandem. - Danaa
yeah, in tandem. With the jews leading the way, as always. - pepsi
Danaa -- I think the PTB are obstructing an honest investigation into the Saudi angle on 9/11 not to protect the Saudis -- but to conceal the involvement of other players. Once the cover-up begins to unravel, everything will come out. - Sean McBride
Also, I do have a vaguish idea of how 9/11 could have been pulled of, with minimal collateral involvement by those who could not be trusted to keep a secret. That's why I keep bringing up the London 7/7 - that's what gave me some ideas. My own interests remain, as always, tactical and strategic. I live the geo-political conflagrations to others with more expertise than myself.... more... - Danaa
Danaa, read my link in the checkmate post above. - pepsi
Well, Sean, we kind of agree on that. The Saudis is what will lead to the others. So now, pretend to be a PTB member-in-good-standing for a second. What will they be willing to do to prevent this thread from unraveling? who will have to be sacrificed? - Danaa
OOps, not to disappoint you humans 9assuming you are) but I got some kitties that are calling to be attended to. Sorry, first things first... - Danaa
Phillip Zelikow was in charge of the counter-terrorism aspects of the bush transition team. He set it all up, making sure plotters were in every key position to make 911 happen. He was the 911 Commission Director Danaa!! He prewrote the 911 report and never changed a thing. He also wrote the Bush Doctrine, which was Clean Break/pnac reworded. - pepsi
Danaa -- like you, I think it's all about the *operational details*. But the US government has prevented the 9/11 "masterminds" from testifying about what precisely those details are. Highly suspicious. Few Americans seem to have noticed that there has been no satisfactory resolution to this case. - Sean McBride
Rumsfeld, Wolfie, and Feith were the top 3 command of the pentagon. Jews don't serve in the military, but they sure are well represented in civilian leadership of pentagon. And Michael Chertoff was Assistant Attorney General in charge of enforcement, which put him above even the fbi director and allowed everything to be covered up in colab with the media cabal. - pepsi
Do you really think that Philip Zelikow could operate independently from the US military-industrial-intelligence complex in the engineering of a direct attack on Manhattan? That is a preposterous scenario -- it doesn't pass the smell test. - Sean McBride
Rumsfeld is not Jewish -- and he was in charge of the Defense Department. - Sean McBride
"Few Americans seem to have noticed that there has been no satisfactory resolution to this case. - Sean McJew" ... Bullshit sean. It just doesnt get reported by the cabal, which every single jewish media personality seems to serve when it comes to 911. Jews couldnt possibly be this stupid and uncritical, unless it was good for Hebrew Nation. - pepsi
McJew, you don't pass the smell test. Another gatekeeper. Self appointed. - pepsi
Rummy, Cheney, and a small number of other shabbas goyim sold out their country for a few pieces of silver. - pepsi
lucky larry was on the phone with netanyahu every single sunday. - pepsi
pepsi -- if you want to continue to post in this group, you will need to expunge all the abusive language from your posts and write like a civil and rational adult. You come across as someone who is perpetually on the verge of going postal -- that style of communication is not conducive to useful discussions. You have your own group, so no one is denying you your right of free speech. - Sean McBride
Once again, in these last comments of yours there is not a single fact or piece of evidence that proves that Israel was behind 9/11. Your brain is much too overheated and inflamed by your congenital hatred of Jews to think clearly about any issue. - Sean McBride
Okay sean, keep playing dumb in your truthful seach for real truth seeking and the prophetic. And danaa can feed the cats and read her chomsky. Then she can head over to the intercept, lol, and then get a ukraine update from mondoweiss and call it a night. - pepsi
danaa doesnt even know about wtc7 or the israeli 'art students' handling the 'hijackers' all across the country. She doesn't know about the dancing israelis or the 150+ israeli spies rounded up just before and after 911, and released by israeli michael chertoff. - pepsi
I was on top of all that info while it was being released. You are still left with the problem of explaining why the US government, which is largely controlled by non-Jews and non-Israelis, would let all this pass without notice or objection. - Sean McBride
keep playing dumb McJew. - pepsi
What is your explanation? Spell it out. - Sean McBride
Pepsi couldn't stop using abusive language -- he will have to develop his ideas about 9/11 in his own group. I made my best effort to accommodate him, but no go. - Sean McBride
re "But the White House never let it see an entire section of Congress’ investigative report on 9/11 dealing with “specific sources of foreign support” for the 19 hijackers, 15 of whom were Saudi nationals." quoted in a comment by Sean McBride. - - - There are many diverse and antipathetic factions in KSA; Bandar has different interests from the now-reigning monarch; Bin Laden's own... more... - ChasMark
On the other hand, Israel, specifically Israeli government, is generally more cohesive in ideology and in history of carrying out false flag & other similar operations. It's built this reputation, and must live with it or change it. So far, no moves toward change are in evidence. Further, Israeli leaders stated that they stood to benefit from 9/11; Olmert was at the ready in a BBC... more... - ChasMark
Why is the US government trying to cover up the Saudi role in 9/11? - Sean McBride
In addition to Jewish elements in USA, non-Jewish factions within the USA are more closely aligned with broadly zionistic interests -- i.e. finance dominance; monopoly on terror/military supremacy; control of resources, and a belief in their right to dictate the political form and leadership of other people's sovereign nations. John Bolton, Jeanne Fitzpatrick, Scoop Jackson, George... more... - ChasMark
"Why is the US government trying to cover up the Saudi role in 9/11?" - Sean McBride - - - Out of friendship and also the ned to preserve revenue flows and protection of the petrodollar. Those Saudis who were involved (allegedly) in 9/11 would have been an embarrassment to other elements in KSA government. Bush values their friendship and would protect KSA elites out of friendship, and... more... - ChasMark
There is enough evidence out there now to lead to the strong conclusion that high-level Saudis were involved in 9/11. How do you know they were rogues and not acting as official representatives of the highest levels of the Saudi government, in coordination with the highest levels of other governments? - Sean McBride
Saudi Arabia is not nearly as important to us as it once was. I wouldn't bet on the future of the Saudi regime. - Sean McBride
Sean -- 1. "there is enough evidence out there ..." --- provide that evidence; and 2. answer the question, cui bono? What benefits did KSA derive from 9/11? - ChasMark
The chief beneficiary of 9/11 was the US military-industrial-intelligence complex (to the tune of trillions of dollars). Saudi Arabia is totally dependent on that complex for its survival. I've already provided pointers to articles which discuss the Saudi role in 9/11 above -- this is currently the hottest topic in 9/11 research. Israel was also clearly a major beneficiary of 9/11 -- we used it as an excuse to crush one of Israel's most formidable enemies (Iraq). - Sean McBride
>>> sort people worldwide by earnings from the Global War on Terror <<< It's that simple. - Sean McBride
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
Simon Schama’s Israel whitewash -
Jerome Slater reviews Simon Schama's PBS documentary "The Story of the Jews," and says Schama's emotionalism, strong but not necessarily persuasive beliefs, and tendency to oversimplify or, worse, ignore inconvenient facts, creates serious problem when he takes on Zionism, the establishment of Israel, and the continuing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Between -100 and 100, what percent chance do you think there is that cable TV will show a series called "Story of the Palestinians"? I say maybe -20%. - WJones
More like 1% at best. - Sean McBride
Why are you so optimistic as to go with a positive number? - WJones
Sorry -- I didn't see the minus sign in your comment. :) - Sean McBride
Ok. now try again. - WJones
Your statement requires no modification. - Sean McBride
So you agree- -20%? - WJones
Yup. - Sean McBride
I saw the Israel Schama episode this weekend. For such a noted historian he came across like a one sided pro-Israel journalist. It was such whitewash it was laughable. But who else would watch this show in the US except for Israel-loving American Jews at Passover? He speaks about how arabs from 1948 to 1967 got up and had to leave from their homes, without saying they were flushed out... more... - Chu_
But didn't Schama also predict the demise of Zionism if Greater Israelists prevail? - Sean McBride
Schama made his case to the audience about the future, but I felt the history was very skewed and his delivery of the presentation was clearly biased for a well known historian. Funny I just read Slater take on it and I agree. But Slater has proven unreliable as well (he calls out Shama). I feel like the left wing gatekeepers are merely revolving doors. When you try and understand them... more... - Chu_
Finkelstein not only attacked BDS as a "cult," but he used the abusive and dismissive language of Aaron David Miller and Moshe Yaalon (the Israeli defense minister) in attacking Kerry, Obama and the Mideast peace process. Finkelstein doesn't add up. Pointing out these weird anomalies about Finkelstein seems to strike a sensitive nerve for several people on Mondoweiss. - Sean McBride
Simon Schama on Twitter is currently objecting to describing the Ukrainian leaflet controversy as a "hoax" -- amazing: [Twitter; schama hoax] - Sean McBride
I was absolutely apalled by the attitude of Schama in the first three episodes of this whitewash exercise in this manipulated tale of Jewish-victimhood-morphing-into-triumphant-"return. I really really want to do my own take-down and am reading Slater's now because I'm just sure it'll prod me into doing my own accounts. Slater has that most annoying jewish intellectuals' trait of... more... - Danaa
I was not surprised the "saga" ended on a kind of a whimper, instead of a yell. My theory (always have one) is that Simon Schama felt kind of disturbed about modern israel. Perhaps, having gone through aspects of the "History of the jews" there is that little disturbing note in the back of his brain - is this Shabttai Zvi all over again? May be he just got the same disrespectful... more... - Danaa
I was left with the impression that Schama wasn't optimistic about the survival of Israel and Zionism -- but that he was confident that Jewish civilization would survive this historical episode. (I need a transcript of the series -- but I haven't been able to find one online.) - Sean McBride
I am looking for a trascript as well. need to check out Slater's piece again - perhaps he provided one? - Danaa
Not much time today for searches. - Danaa
Sean McBride
Current status of Moon of Alabama
".@MoonofA Notice: is still down due to a DDoS attack on its hosting company @Typepad - …" - Sean McBride
Twitter is the best source for getting answers to questions like this. - Sean McBride
Ya, I know. It's become one of my go to sites as well. May be going after Typepad became a way of taking MoA down? - Danaa
There are many potential targets at Typepad -- hard to tell at this point. - Sean McBride
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
Obama and Kerry are spurred by ‘vainglory’ in pursuing talks — Finkelstein -
Netanyahu threw in the Jewish state demand to sabotage talks, Norman Finkelstein says. Why not just change your name to the Jewish State of Israel, ala the Islamic Republic of Iran?
One is beginning to notice a pattern of duplicity among some leading Jewish progressives regarding Israel. At first they present themselves to the world as fearless and principled critics of Israel and Zionism, they establish themselves as leaders and moderators of that conversation, and then they use the influence they have acquired to mount often sleazy apologetics for the Israeli government. Have some or most of them been "ops" from the very beginning, executing a long-range game plan? - Sean McBride
Obama and Kerry have been committed to solving the I/P problem because they realize that the failure to do so will likely have disastrous strategic consequences for the United States and Israel down the line if it is not fixed now. This moment in history is probably the last opportunity to fix the problem before it becomes unfixable. - Sean McBride
It turns out that quite a few progressive anti-Zionists or non-Zionists are really liberal Zionists who are really Likud Zionists who are running interference for the grand project of building Jewish dominated Greater Israel -- they are, quite simply, Zionists -- passionate Jewish nationalists. After observing the peculiar gyrations of Benny Morris, Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky,... more... - Sean McBride
Have many of us been hoodwinked? - Sean McBride
The insulting rhetoric here ("vanity," "vainglory," etc.) is straight out of the neocon playbook. - Sean McBride
Fool me once.... - Sean McBride
I think MJ was AIPAC but he got disillusioned with it for being too right wing. It doesn't mean he became a full progressive like MW. - WJones
He adopted a progressive coloration for a time after defecting from AIPAC, but he seems to be swinging back to his former position. - Sean McBride
It's either that or he has been playing a game from day one. If it was a game, he needed to make it as convincing as possible to be believed. You know that these kinds of games go on in the real world all the time, right? Ops 101. They are one of the most effective tools in the kit. - Sean McBride
Still, Finkelstein has inside connections to someplace. Before the Arab spring, he said that the US would start a campaign soon to make regime change across the Middle East. He said "It will start in Tunisia." (I can't find the quote where he said this, but I took special note at the time). And where did the Arab spring start? - WJones
At the time he said this, I thought he was talking about US invasions and it did not make sense because Tunisia was consdered pretty Western, so I didn't get how he saw the US starting regime change there. - WJones
"After observing the peculiar gyrations of Benny Morris, Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Glenn Greenwald, M.J. Rosenberg and others one wonders -- which progressive critics of Israel are the real deal? Which have been presenting a false face to the world? Is Norman Finkelstein just a more left-wing variation on Aaron David Miller, Dennis Ross and Martin Indyk? In the end, a clever... more... - Danaa
AS for Greenwald - the jury is still way out. That comment he made equating Pollard to Snowden was a shocker. Something is happening behind the scenes , I think - he may be roped in, not because of any excess love for the tribe but because his great love of self can, and probably was, taken advantage of. - Danaa
Unfortunately, most so-called progressive jews are "exposed" to either pressure, blackmail or threats. I'm sure that, as we speak, max Blumental has to weather some withering attacks - I can only hope he is strong enough. Will he be as Acosta, submitting to punishment to be allowed to "re-enter" the synagog (only to do away with himself later when he realized that a life without dignity... more... - Danaa
The grand plan is about to come into focus, where just about all Jews - progressives, neocons or whatever, will be asked, basically, to support the Great Israel venture. Even to the detriment of America. I have been expecting this scenario, the Last Act in the Passion Play of the children of Israel, to commence in earnest. Watching this play out will be, well, excruciating. And still the world will be expected to shell out for tickets. - Danaa
Dazzling comments, Danaa -- prophetic, truly. I see this happening as well. I also suspect that the pressure that is going to be applied to anyone (including Jewish progressives) who opposes this desperate and hysterical juggernaut is going to be much too brutal and powerful to resist -- most of them are going to fold. I often find myself thinking, regarding myself, enough -- just get... more... - Sean McBride
A final comment: it is not for nothing that sometimes the ones who seem to see things most clearly are the ones who grew up in the cauldron of fire - in Israel itself. People like Gilad Atzmon, Avigail Abarbanel, Motti Peled - they know stuff and share stuff. As does yours truly, if far less ably. As does Shmuel, who knows truths that are just barely visible to most people concerned... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- you really need to finish that book -- your writing is really exceptional -- full of fire and perfectly pitched. - Sean McBride
Thanks Sean - really. The book - I've been on it, though alas - if only I could master a tenth of Greenwald's efficiency, it would have been all but done by now.... - Danaa
How in the world does Glenn produce so many well-formed sentences and paragraphs? (Although we haven't seen much of that for quite some time.) In any case, keep moving forward on the project. - Sean McBride
Blumenthal will be hard to break. He went into it knowing what would happen, and he also has a background of doing in your face stuff, like his interviews in Jerusalem that exposed himself physically. But he also has had issues like denouncing Atzmon and taking an establishment position on Syria. However those have not come from being pressured, and there is more recognition of Israeli abuses nowadays. - WJones
Mossad can get anyone, don't you think? They don't play by the usual rules. - Sean McBride
If they rendition him, which they won't. His book is already out, and it just repeats public info in a readable, engaging way. - WJones
Why bother with renditioning? They have a copious playbook for dealing with troublemakers. - Sean McBride
There are much more effective methods than assassination in the playbook. And they are not expensive or labor-intensive. - Sean McBride
Certainly not to be discussed in public forums. - Sean McBride
believe it or not, there are israel critics high up in the jewish mafia that blumenthal gladly gatekeeps for. Ratner, Soros, and probably several other high rollers. The Nation published max's book for heaven's sake. He's not independent, he just knows that zio fanaticism is bad for the jews, as does Lizzy Ratner, fellow Nation writer and gatekeeper. - pepsi
It is hard to explain Finkelstein's opposition to BDS from an egalitarian leftist perspective. - WJones Soros says briefly that Rabin's work for peace was the best solution but that now Israelis and Pals are going to extremes. Panelists were pessimistic abut peace. that was 12 years ago. - WJones
"As for Chomsky - it's much more complicated - he is actually on another trajectory, splitting off from the tribe, rather than running interference for it." - Danaa ... What a crock. Chomsky said it doesn't matter if 911 was a false flag, and was verrrry slow to confess the neocon centrality to the iraq war. - pepsi
MW is hurting itself by cutting comments after 2 days. - WJones
It would be a simple matter for those who wish to pursue these discussions to do so here -- but too many Internet users are passive, not proactive -- they require leaders to set up discussion platforms for them. Leader/follower syndrome. - Sean McBride
The Internet has completely changed the rules of the game for political activism -- but most people don't get it yet. - Sean McBride
chosen/goyim syndrome. - pepsi
The tendency of most people to be followers is a universal phenomenon. Real leaders are a rare breed. - Sean McBride
Phil said in the past about the importance of the comments section. He said that some people went from the comments section to becoming staff. He said it was one of the best parts. - WJones
The comments section brings people back and separates it from some other blogs. I think that since Phil is Jewish it gives people more leeway to talk openly. - WJones
Where does Blankfort post at these days? - WJones
Atzmon has no comments section. That discourages people. - WJones
With a 2 day cutoff, part of MW will die. - WJones
Often the comments bring up more facts and discussion than the articles themselves. - WJones
What counts on the Internet? Quantity and quality of engagement -- and Mondoweiss has excelled in that -- it may be its greatest asset. - Sean McBride
It's painful that MW is restricting the comment section so severely. It's one of my favorite parts of MW. - WJones
WJones -- encourage people who wish to pursue discussions that are closed on Mondoweiss to come here. Be proactive. It's simple and easy to do. - Sean McBride
Once you establish a beachhead on Friendfeed, you can quickly build social networks and groups with any combination of other Friendfeed users and pursue discussions with total freedom. - Sean McBride
Sean, habits are hard to break. People who comment on MW do so because they want the widest audience for their comments and/or are trying to engage with the post author or others. Once comments go to another forum, one without moderation or ability to format the way people like (ie, with Bolds, quotes, paragraphs etc) the will be a disconnect from the original piece that spawned the comments in the first place. It - Danaa
FriendFeed as a medium has some advantages - but also suffers from some serious shortcomings as far as the presentation of an argument. yes, there may be ways around, but it's just not to everyone's taste. That much should be obvious because very few people from among MW commenters have chosen to comment here. I believe it has nothing to do with you or anyone else. It's just the lack of critical mass of commenters. - Danaa
Once MW closes comments after a day (which is where I think it's heading) then the need for another platform may become clear. I think, W. Jones, you may consider starting your own feed, as a way of welcoming the few who want to engage on the areas you are most interested in? - Danaa
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
Long ago, Bill Buckley and Woody Allen agreed on occupation -
In a TV show not long after '67 war, Woody Allen quipped that Israel shouldn't give the occupied land back, but "sell it back." Conservative guest Bill Buckley echoed him and went further.
What is it with MW closing comments after 2 days? This story is now closed- posted 18th, 19th, closed on 20th. - WJones Things get heated on The View. - WJones
W. Jones, it's the beginning of the end for comments. MW is under intense pressure to end the comments section, partly because it brings non-Jewish commenters out into the open. Who actually dare to comment on things Jewish (the outrage!). Can't have that for too long. I also think that we may be witnessing the slow process of the co-opting of MW into the Borg. "They" did that to +972,... more... - Danaa
With funding comes capitulation. Exhibit A: +972. Exhibit B: The Intercept and First Look (anyone bothered to look there lately?). Many more exhibits where these came from. - Danaa
If you've got enough money, co-opting the opposition is a piece of cake. You can pick off one troublemaker after another just like that. - Sean McBride
So, we'll give you money this month, but unfortunately we definitely have to disagree with the kinds of "negative" comments we';ve been seeing in your comments section. The comments section is something MJ Rosenberg complains about. - Is that how it works? - WJones
Sean McBride
The//Intercept: Passover Greetings from the Editor (John Cook)
"I will try to make myself available today in the comments on this post to answer questions about what we are doing and what we intend to do. I’ll be here until 3 p.m. EDT, when I’m off to seder. Chag sameach." - Sean McBride
Something is definitely feeling peculiar and off about this venture. What have become of Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill? - Sean McBride
Read the comments - fascinating. - Sean McBride
John Cook's Passover reference may have been ironic: - Sean McBride
I think John Cook is probably an Enlightenment dude. I am willing to give Intercept more time to get its act together. - Sean McBride
I keep commenting about the mysterious "disappearance" of Jeremy Scahill - who wrote so much before sinking into a publication black hole, just as soon as he joined this venture. - Danaa
The saying "if it looks too good to be true..." appears more relevant by the day. - Danaa
the way the venture collected some of the most independent - and productive - journalists and bloggers around, only to become a moribound sink of information is truly puzzling. How long does it take to start publishing something anyways? The Intercept is up and about, but has anyone seen anything significant or earth shaking on it lately? and Glenn Greenwald returns to the US to accept a prize and all is quiet on the western front. Way too quiet, one would think. - Danaa
That piece about Omidyar being one side of the funding of USAID in Ukraine, Soros being another (among more "liberal" interventionist fundies) really rankled. Indeed, Greenwald's silence on what's going on in the Ukraine - and the almost complete, wall-to-wall media anti-Russia propagandizing speaks quite loudly. - Danaa
Given the number of highly significant - and disturbing - events to have happened in the months since the First Look venture was announced, something that seemed strangely not-covered by serious bloggers like Scahill, taibbi, jay Rosen, Froomkin and Greenwald, can one be blamed for wondering whether the entire venture was a concerted "Op" to effectively "remove" some of the more influencial voices out in the alternative media? - Danaa
Suggested starter list for significant events since Greenwald was "absorbed" into "First" Look: 1. Ukraine Coup 2. Media attack on Sochi Olympics 3. Collapse of kerry's I/P talk 4. Sy Hersh's definitive unraveling of the Syria CW attack as false flag 5. venezuela "riots" 6. Disappearance of MH370 - Danaa
Danaa -- if First Look Media turns out to be a nefarious op, don't you think that Greenwald, Scahill, Taibbi and all those stubborn and independent minds will divulge all the gory details down the line? Unless they are quietly incarcerated at Guantanamo. - Sean McBride
By the way, you are breaking out your thoughts and paragraphs into nice bite-size comment chunks, where they are easily digested. :) This interface is manageable, I think. - Sean McBride
Oh, I think they may well all peeter (sp?) out in time, if our smidgen of suspicion turns out to be correct. I did not for a second imagine the goal was to shut them up forever - but just for a time. A very critical time in the larger corporatocracy's game book. Obviously, I can't know for sure, but can't get over this noisy little bird trying to whisper something in my ear. - Danaa
Why the suspicion? simple (at least for my part): I've been trying to imagine what the PTB might try to assert some control over alternative media. Obviously, scare tactics don't work on everyone, especially for some who feel they have nothing to lose (cf. their chances at a regular MSM perch are all but gone) and don't have enough of a greedy bone. That leaves "co-opting" as a tactic.... more... - Danaa
Last longer comment was for you Sean, to prove that you cannot co-opt me into the friendFeed Borg. That's what you get for compliments! - Danaa
No wonder my very own quite commendable parents kind of gave up on me when I was, like 6 yrs old. They - along with everyone else - just assumed that "bundle of joy" was a gift left behind by the werewolves or something. The only thing that changed over the [many] years since is that I've learnt to disguise the moon-wailing (but, last night was just too tempting - blood moon and all... more... - Danaa
That is a perfectly plausible scenario -- First Look Media could be a gimmick for coopting the most influential voices on the Internet and bringing them under control. We'll see how this plays out in the coming weeks and months. Shutting up those personalities for more than a few months strikes me as not a viable project -- talk about a scheme born to backfire (if that is what it has been). - Sean McBride
I imagine you have been quite a handful since day one. :) I share some of those traits myself. :) Beware of the world's true truth-seekers.... - Sean McBride
Ann Coulter takes on Israel advocates (TWMNBN is the acronym I see sometimes, i.e., Those Who Must Not Be Named)
Note how she quotes Adelson calling Israel, "our country." - Berthe
I can't believe it! I actually agree with Ann Coulter's take on this issue (disclaimer: not to imply I'd agree on anything else in the future). This article actually summed up simply much of what's wrong with American business' schizophrenic attitude to illegal migration - it's about the profits, stupid! this is the aspect that's not being discussed at all on the left - the very obvious... more... - Danaa
Funny that she is blowing the doors of Adelson's phony brand of republicanism. Adelson the Zionist and his ilk are so hypocritical. Amnesty for USA aliens, but a huge fence to keep out those A-Rabs in Y'Israel. I am not sure how the media class of DC doesn't laugh at how pathetic and self serving they are. Immegration could be solved if they penalized the business owners for illegal... more... - Chu_
Telling will be easier to get Zionism out of the GOP than to get it out of the Dems. Too much of the Zionist agenda *for the US* in order to maintain control of US policy actually goes against conservative values and issues. And if the GOP(after it gets through fracturing itself) ever comes out with the old conservativism of America first then they will win elections. - American
ever heard of the horseshoe theory? Proponents of the theory point to similarities between the extreme left and the extreme right. - Chu_
I agree with American that Republicans are more likely to shake the Israel "firsters." Electorally, it hasn't worked for the Republicans as they are losing their own voters while not getting and never getting Jews, Hispanics or blacks. Romney gushing about "Bibi" Netanyahu turned off Republicans; same with his calls for "more legal immigration." "The case of the missing white voters" - Berthe
Jones, did you see any democrats calling for a end to Isr's attack on Lebanon or during Isr's Cast Lead attack on Palestine and Gaza? No--you didn't. If you're 'selective' about who you think should have human rights---then you aren't for human rights. They are hypocrites. - American
According to the WP the Dems get 60% of their campaign funds from Jews....they aren't going to give that up. The GOP otoh have sources like the Koch brothers and others with very deep pockets. Even the liberal/Dem elite and titians with money wont go along with financing too much of the liberal positions as it would impact them financially. The liberal titians are willing to advocate... more... - American
'' I was talking about rank and file dems'...Jones) The Dems 'make speeches' to the rank and file Dems to get their vote. They don't actually implement any reforms or policies to help the middle class ---- they just create more taxpayer social programs. IOW....neither party is going to 'clean up' their corruption and bring balance to the US in any way. Therefore imo is why is would be... more... - American
I don't like the left or the right wing but the truth is the left wing is a bunch of pc wimps and pansies---they will whine about something but they wont actually' fight -fight' over it unless it's one of their pet single interest issues like gays or US social service programs.. The rank and file right wing is not so 'pc' and will get rowdy over something. - American
At some point, branding others as racists or anti-Semites will become meaningless. Many people outside the media and elites laugh at both labels already. - Todd
Its already meaningless to those of us who know anything. - American
Its been nice to see the pushback Holder is getting for his whining, late as it is coming. How outrageous that the Attorney General and President hang around with Al Sharpton and have for years and theres never been any commentary about how utterly wrong it is. And now we know that Sharpton was an FBI informant and the only reason such people become FBI informants is that they are... more... - Berthe
Uncovering the Remains of Treblinka
Danaa, with all apologies, do you still believe this bullshit? ''Treblinka 2 was almost certainly the most efficient murder operation in the history of mankind. About 900,000 people fell victim there in a little more than a year. Camp commanders bragged about their efficiency. But, facing an oncoming Soviet army, the Germans destroyed the buildings, dug up mass graves and burned the bodies, forced local people to spread the ash and planted trees to cover over what had been the camp.'' - pepsi
here's a preview of the show - pepsi
It takes 1/2 ton of wood to burn a body. Where did they get 450,000 tons of wood? Did they say? The gas fuel was being used in the Luftwaffe planes, which they ran out of by 1944. I haven't watched the trailer, and no time now. There would have had to be a firewood crop nearby: - MRW_8
It also takes two hours to burn a body *in an enclosed area*, like a crematory oven, at a minimum of 1470 F or higher to get down to the bones. Ask any crematory director, which I did when my father died. So this is a collective 1.8 million hours, minimum, in open fields. Why would the Germans give a shit what the Russians thought about what they were doing? 1942-1943 is two years max.... more... - MRW_8
Each physical body has around 205 bones. Did she find 184.5 million bones? (900,000 x 205) That's a helluva lot of mass. - MRW_8
How much typhus was at Treblinka? - MRW_8
Does the dust of Jewish bones have distinctive genetic markers? While Germans were busily disposing of Jewish bones, what was German high command doing about the thousands of Allied firebombing flights that destroyed German cities? At Nuremberg a leader of Germany's air force command was asked, "What would you have done if you had more fighter planes?" He replied without hesitation, "We would have defended against the air attacks on German cities." - ChasMark
Where did Germans bury the hundreds of thousands of German civilians who were killed in Allied firebombing raids? Does the dust of German bones have distinctive genetic markers, or some other distinction that can be evidenced by Ms. what's-er-name's bogus science? - ChasMark
Even more importantly, and even less in the consciousness of Americans, What did NSDAP do to provide shelter for 7 million German civilians who were "de-housed" (the term coined by "Bomber" Harris) in Allied firebombing raids? Is there the slenderest of possibilities that German civilian refugees were entrained to... more... - ChasMark
When USA & "Coalition of the Willing" destroyed Iraq, little account was made of some 4 million Iraqis who became refugees, and still less of the 1.5 - 2 million Iraqis who found refuge in Iran, which USA/AIPAC then sanctioned in an attempt to completely cripple their already strained economy. Today, much hand-wringing takes place regarding Syrian refugees (a tragedy to be sure, and... more... - ChasMark
The very attempt -- successful, so far -- to enforce the Lie by government sanction, is an indictment, a huge red flag: There Is Something We Do NOT want the masses to know. What is the horrible secret that the "Investigative Project on Terrorism" (a Jewish organization) as well as ADL's Abe Foxman and Ronald Lauder,... more... - ChasMark
Every prosecutor worth his LLB knows that when you come upon a door that an "innocent until proven guilty defendant" refuses to open, BREAK DOWN THAT DOOR: that is where the incriminating evidence is hidden. Why do Jews so zealously guard full research & genuine free speech concerning the holocaust? If the narrative is true as claimed, wouldn't further research, from whatever perspective, only reveal the same truth? What's to hide? - ChasMark
At Nuremberg, Military Adj. to Commander in Chief of German Air Force was interrogated concerning Germany's treatment of Allied fliers shot down by Germans while in the process of firebombing/raiding German civilians. To make the point perfectly clear: Allied military personnel were captured in the act of attacking German civilians. Germans were accused of mistreating or killing such Allied fliers. Here's a snip of such questioning: - ChasMark
"Q. Do you know of the attitude of Hitler with regard to the treatment of so-called terror fliers who were shot down? [Page 2] A. In the spring of 1944 the, number of civilian air-raid casualties by machine gunning increased suddenly. These attacks were directed against civilians working in the fields, against secondary railroads and stations of no military importance, against... more... - ChasMark
"Q. What was the attitude of the Reichsmarschall of the Air Force to this order? A. The Commander-in-Chief and the Chief of the General Staff expressed their opinion that a most serious view must be taken of these attacks directed solely against civilians. Notwithstanding, no special measure should be taken against these officers - the suggestion to lynch and not afford protection to... more... - ChasMark
Compare with the way that George W Bush led the USA to take revenge against a (false flag, imo) attack on the USA 'homeland.' How were Bush's actions different from the orders Hitler "may have" -- "as far as I know" issued regarding Allied fliers who killed German civilians? - ChasMark
Consider also the comments of Thane Rosenbaum in a discussion of his book, "Payback, The Case for Revenge," Regarding the attacks on Afghanistan & Iraq subsequent to 9/11, Rosenbaum, dripping with sarcasm, remarks that Christians in the USA did not clamor for Bush to "turn the other cheek"; they acquiesced in Bush's call for... more... - ChasMark
pepsi, you addressed this post to me. Why, in particular? I said several times that this issue of the Holocaust accuracy is not "my gig". I am so overwhelmed by involvement in other areas that, in all fairness, time simply does not permit looking deeply into this period of time. For me, it is not the facts or non-facts of Holocaust lore that are the issue. It is the use - and abuse - of... more... - Danaa
one of those "useful" tools does indeed involve the casting of jewish persecution complex. But at the moment I am busily looking into the underlying causes of previous pogroms, such as the ones in Ukraine, Poland and Russia. My angle is not the accuracy in reporting (which clearly deserves to be pursued) but the way context was glossed over in the interest of coming up with a "unified"... more... - Danaa
I think it was American who recommended once Esau's Tears, a book I'm now plowing through. And I'm also taking serious notes from Maxime Robinton's book, for which I owe a debt to MRW. Plus these led to a number of studies as well as re-readings of Sand's book.I think I have my hands full. - Danaa
You will be interested to know that I started a little exercise of taking down shamas' "History of the Jews" - a five part series just airing on PBS, that really got my blood boiling. Not because of the way facts were carefully selected to support a narrative (which they were, resulting in a rather shallow program, but one expects that in a made-for-TV program) but the way it was... more... - Danaa
" For example, one of the points I've been making is that Jewish history-telling conveniently ignored the incredible persecutions, pogroms and discriminations against otyther groups in Europe at the same time and in the same places. many of those groups were Christian sects of one kind or another, which is how so many of them ended up in America." I assume that's the case with my... more... - Todd
Todd - exactly. I just read something about the brethern church which originated in then Czechoslovakia - a few burnings at the stake before they pulled up stake. but i also had in mind the French Hugenots, and others. All that, not to even mention the extremely bloody tit-for-tats that took place in England and scotland between various catholic, protestant and what later became... more... - Danaa
Danaa. The Irish Holocaust: When the Brits sent over people to populate the south before the Civil War, notably Savannah, they sent the Irish for servants, and the Scots for banking and shopkeeping. The NYT classifieds from 1850 show how the Irish were considered indentured slaves; only their skin color allowed them to assimilate... more... - MRW_8
Danaa. Which Rodinson book did I tell you about? ;-) - MRW_8
Danaa. Here's some dessert, or bathroom reading: and Do in this order. You might add: - MRW_8
It's not what's happened to us, it's how we processed it, and who we allow to process it (or not), and who becomes institutionalized to process it that's the kicker. - MRW_8
"When the Brits sent over people to populate the south before the Civil War, notably Savannah, they sent the Irish for servants, and the Scots for banking and shopkeeping." The Savannah Irish! Some of the local unions still shut down operations on St. Patrick's Day as part of the contract. These guys still have a chip on the collective shoulder. They did have it rough, though, as they... more... - Todd
"Todd - exactly. I just read something about the brethern church which originated in then Czechoslovakia - a few burnings at the stake before they pulled up stake..." I read some accounts of Moravians in Saxony before leaving for the colonies, and their treatment could be harsh. One account claimed that a member was suspended in a cage along the roadside and allowed to starve to death... more... - Todd
MRW, sorry I misspelled the authors name [again!]. It's Maxime Rodinson, and the name is "Cult, Ghetto and State". It has a translation and interpretation of the famous Troskite Abram Leon, whose name is, to this day quite controversial among Jewish marxist type (most of whom reside, mercifully, in Europe). Maxime coined the expression Judeo-Centrism (not sure he was the first) which I... more... - Danaa
Rodinson is also said to have coined Islamo-fascism in 1979. - MRW_8
''. For example, one of the points I've been making is that Jewish history-telling conveniently ignored the incredible persecutions, pogroms and discriminations against otyther groups in Europe '' ...Danaa)......I once saw a list of all the Jewish pogroms at the Jewishvirutal library or somewhere, there were almost a hundred listed. Out of curiousity I started spot checking some of them... more... - American
Here's some very early Irish history - Ordinance of Laborers (1349) King Edward II signed the Ordinance of Laborers, forbidding charity and prohibited gathering, hunting, and fishing which steered money into merchants pockets by forcing rural people into waged work. If you refused, limbs were amputated or you were executed. - Chu_
In the 13th century Ireland experimented with its neighbor, Britain, in colonization which replaced the ancient system of barter. Working for wages was slow to catch on and soon the poor were labeled “sturdy beggars” who refused to work. King Edward II signed the Ordinance of Laborers, forbidding charity and prohibited gathering, hunting, and fishing which steered money into merchants... more... - Chu_
"Curse the germans and european christian society and never forgive them for what they did.'' - pepsi
''For me, it is not the facts or non-facts of Holocaust lore that are the issue. It is the use - and abuse - of the Holocaust as a "founding principle" for israel''. Danaa, I asked you because i'm one of those people who think the facts of the 'holocaust' do indeed obviously matter a great deal. And not just because of israel. This narrative is used to justify great evil and violence by... more... - pepsi
Chu. "the ancient system of barter." Just for the record, completely unrelated to this conversation. barter didn't exist as a payment system. That was made up in the late 1890s by an American historian who didn't know what he was talking about. Forget his name. He imagined it because he didn't know about how the neolithic and temple governments worked, and knew zip about tally sticks, and coinage. Just an FYI here. ;-) - MRW_8
mrw. thanks for the tidbit. barter as a payment system wasn't a payment system at all but a trade. This for that. - Chu_
21 minutes later, comments locked. - WJones
That's because conversation about anything to do with Germany in the 1930-1945 period is verboten now on MW. merely mentioning Germany and/or fascism in the 30's is enough to get a comment disallowed. The ones who watch MW decided to exclude a decade and a half of human history from the conversation. Why? because it's bound to bring up comments like Hostage's. In truth, I'm surprised they even let your comment through. An oversight, surely? - Danaa
Personally, I find both the "disappearing" of nazi Germany and obssession with it, kind of pointless. I understand the reasons (I think) both con and pro, but find them unpersuasive. Sometimes, on a clear blue day, I try to imagine, just for a moment, what historical distortions and period "disappearances" would have been like, had jews played any role whatsoever in the War of the... more... - Danaa
I wonder if they monitor FF. - WJones
I doubt it. Unless someone says something really outrageous.... - Danaa
what does " 'disappearing' of Nazi Germany" mean? - ChasMark
It means that there are periods of time and events that are not to be discussed in "polite" msm or just-off-msm venues. For whatever reason, the 10 year time period leading up to the 1939 invasion of Poland is verbotten. But hey, discussions of the "roaring '20's" are OK (within permissible parameters), and without "too much" detail about the ways in which the great Depression kind of... more... - Danaa
KEEPER file: "American says: March 29, 2014 at 3:18 pm LOL… Are you being snarky?… noblese oblige?—->”the moral obligation of those of high birth, powerful social position, etc., to act with honor, kindliness, generosity.” Sorry but there is not a sign of honor or generosity in the Jewish establishment that you’re talking about…or the gentile one...
Not sure how long this will stay on MW. I wanted to preserve it for posterity. I'm having trouble editing the post to shorten it -- sorry MRW. Here's the link to the MW article - ChasMark
Richard Haass of all people running commentary on how the I/P conflict is not the heart of the problem. Haas has reliably carried water for whomever is seemingly in power, noblesse, usurper, or fifth column, no difference to Haas: in the era of post-Iraq hand-wringing Haas tried to make his mark by ruefully conceding that political pundits like he is endorsed the Iraq invasion in order to preserve their careers. - ChasMark
Ha! Noblesse oblige? *Fucking noblesse oblige*?!? I added a comment after American's; probably won't go through because I wrote: "The last thing Jews have is noblesse oblige." Not in their DNA. But what is puzzling is that Phil equates it with power. 'We have power--and noblesse oblige' or something similar. Totally off the fucking wall;, just listen to NPR on any given day and you'll... more... - MRW_8
Yes, I thought the 'noble oblige' description had to be snark------surely Phil, even with his idealizing cant really be that far gone...can he? Bizarre! I can't point to one thing in the Jewish establishment or the current Gentile one either that even resembles honor. Does he understand what honor means? - American
Noblesse oblige is so old money. And we're not talking about a lot of money; we're talking about old money, generations of having it and knowing what it buys you and what it excludes and how it can slice the lives of those who will never get it so you tread carefully and improve their lives. So many of the nouveau riche I met in Manhattan were devoid of it. They bought things to appear as if they had it. - MRW_8
Shmuel had it. - MRW_8
'Noblesse oblige is so old money. And we're not talking about a lot of money..MRW)....Very true, what is called noble oblige really is a sense of responsibility to your fellow man, part of what forms 'character'.. And its not just about being generous with money, part of it is recognizing that every man is entitled to his dignity. My family didn't do a lot of verbal moralizing and I... more... - American
a small group of us is working thru Jerry Muller's lectures on Capitalism. Muller is delighted with fiat money "that relies on the good faith and credit of the US government." If the US gov is based on a passel of lies, as it unarguably is, how sound is US fiat money? - ChasMark
Benjamin Franklin introduced fiat money to the US, Everything since time immemorial has been fiat, ChasMark. Gold was fiat at one time in this country…but…the country was controlled by the people who owned the gold mines. Everytime a new gold mine was discovered in the 19th C, the value of the currency went down. The recessions and panics in the 19th C culminated in the panic of 1907.... more... - MRW_8
ChasMark. BTW, it was only in 700 BC when the Greek temples introduced gold coins. For 2800 years before then, all governments used the credits and debits systems that the Sumerians used (although only the Sumerians marked them on clay tablets), a highly sophisticated way of forward planning and maintaining the credits and debts based on the harvest, the usual payment time for agrarian societies. US farmers and ranchers use the same method. - MRW_8
ChasMark, for your reading group: Read last two paragraphs: Also, read (Psst. You have MMT wrong, btw.) - MRW_8
I still say that value has to be present somewhere, and that the power to print and spend freely is bound to be abused or screwed up. Nothing is perfect. - Todd
BTW, American, my 'noblesse oblige comment following yours got ditched. ;-) They are crazy not to allow them so that American Jews can see Gentile comments. Gentile comments are no worse than what Israelis say among themselves and are just as direct. This circling of the wagons is precisely what the 'British Jew' was complaining about, and I, for one, think that 'British Jew's' comments need to be heeded. - MRW_8
Todd. Economist Andrea Terzi: "The basis for acceptance of fiat money is not simply people’s confidence. As has long been known by money historians dealing with “token money” and by economists who are aware of the political foundation of money, any national currency that is ‘fiat’ can be redeemed in the form of ‘tax credit’. In other words, the national currency is the only means that people can use to pay their liabilities to their government, notably taxes. The BoE is silent on this point." - MRW_8
Todd. Andrea Terzi (point 2): "The effectiveness of the “transmission mechanism” whereby interest rates affect lending and the overall economy is known to be ambiguous. The fundamental reason is that banks are pro-cyclical, as a famous quote attributed to Mark Twain explains effectively: **A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the... more... - MRW_8
Todd. There is no power to "print and spend freely" in the US unless Congress fails to do its job by issuing instructions to the Federal Reserve, and Congress deregulates the monetary system as Gore (Clinton admin) and 'Chainsaw' Gilleran (Office of Thrift Supervision - Bush admin) did. - MRW_8
MRW, I understand that the printing presses aren't running at all times, and that spending isn't unlimited. Is it your point that the ineptitude or corruption of congress is/are the only weaknesses of the system, or that there aren't ways to exploit the situation? What are the flaws? Most systems will work relatively well as long as the people in charge are honest and responsible and everyone else is playing by the rules. Are some systems worse than others when exploited? - Todd
MRW..."BTW, American, my 'noblesse oblige comment following yours got ditched. ;-) ""....Three of mine have since gotten ditched since my comment. And funny because they stayed in 'moderation' for a day and then were never posted and just disappeared, not even visible to me as 'waiting'. And the thing is they weren't even close to anti semitic.. Two of them were about news reports I... more... - American
Really ridiculous and very telling to censor a comment like mine. By the time the shit hits the fan on all this and the Jews start the whining about the gentiles not helping them out and blaming them, all I'm gonna feel like saying is ''we tried to tell you but you're so frigging narcissistic you wouldn't take our advice.'' - American
Todd. Of course the 'printing presses ARE running all the time'. Because they aren't printing presses. That's a phrase from before 1934. Our money is a spreadsheet. But when you have fiat money, like Canada or GB or Japan, or AU, you must have regulations. Canada, for example, did not suffer like the rest of the countries in 9/2008 because it has strong rules and regs about what their... more... - MRW_8
American, the moment you don't see the pending comment, it's been ditched. It is telling about censoring comments that confirm what 'British Jew' is saying. I guess only the tribe is allowed to comment because, by definition, only the tribe is of concern. But the laughable thing is that the worry 'British Jew' expressed involved everyone who isn't a part of the tribe. But they don't want to hear anything that might confirm those concerns unless it's from the tribe. Bizarre. - MRW_8
American. "we tried to tell you but you're so frigging narcissistic you wouldn't take our advice.'' Or just listen. This isn't 1938 or 1945. People are fed up with all this shit, this agita, this attempt to live as if it were 100 years ago. - MRW_8
American, based on what you said your ditched comment was - my guess is that it was censored because you mentioned Germany. I believe the new rules (some of which are not exactly stated, but are obviously implied) cordon off certain periods of history as taboo. That includes anything to do with the period 1933-1945, especially as related to Germany. The time around the Bolshevick... more... - Danaa
Qualification, SOME commenters known to be Jewish may be able to get away with making allusions to Germany, and perhaps even draw equivalents or comparisons to the downside of too much and too visible privilege/success of a particular group (say, a jewish one). But any non-jewish commenter who dares to bring up certain historical periods, drawing any kind of analogy, is effectively... more... - Danaa
Danaa, do you ever wonder if the Jewish population of Germany deserved to be deported, with a few exceptions like patriotic Jewish veterans of WW1? Survival and right to self-determination sure seem like much greater priorities than whether or not a few innocent members of a tiny minority population get deported unfairly. 90 percent of Jews would agree with that general truth when it... more... - pepsi
If a majority or even a tiny minority of African refugees in Israel were Iranian agents, the vast majority of Jews worldwide would have no problem either deporting the whole lot of them or keeping them all in concentration camps. The Jews in Germany tended to be profanely wealthy, and interested in merging Germany with the Soviet Union. With all the genocide that would entail for innocent German citizens. - pepsi
Todd. "The Real Reason the U.S. Dollar Has Value" CHASMARK. Copy this off for your reading group, because this is how the US monetary system works. (And GB, Japan, Canada, AU) - MRW_8
Danaa. One of those commenters is Hostage. He can say what they canned Blankfort for saying. You were one of them for a long time. Not so sure you are that golden anymore. ;-) - MRW_8
MRW, I am still "golden" but scarce these days. My interests are a bit broader at the moment and time marches on, as I get wrapped into "other" things. This thing you heard about females being better at multi-tasking? it's gobblygook. Only applies when each task requires limited attention and desire for perfection can be safely ignored. - Danaa
Danaa. Well, I think I've become persona non grata there. I've been making some trenchant remarks lately to shake this Kuchina Doll miasma that they get into when challenged from without. None of the comments have got through, which is fine. But someone read them and inhaled. ;-) - MRW_8
Todd. Don't want you or ChasMark to miss that article. So reminding in case you don't scroll up to see remarks. - MRW_8
Pepsi - no, I try not to wonder about things like "which population DESERVED to be deported/cleansed/whatever". That's because I can never ignore the fact that populations are composed of individuals AND I don't fancy myself any kind of authority on assigning moral blame to collectives. My approach is to stick whenever possible to causation, trying to keep my own injured feelings at... more... - Danaa
Danaa, I'm not saying every jew in Germany deserved to be deported. I'm saying enough of them were bolshevik revolutionaries and wealthy oppressors of the German public that it doesn't matter if some Jews were innocent. Expelling every Jew may not have been exactly morally correct, but it sure seems like is was the much lesser of two evils. It's a tricky question I suppose, but not... more... - pepsi
It was more important to Hitler, certainly. What happened to Russia was at most 15 years old then; the memory as real to Germans (who traditionally are gun-shy as a landlocked country) as 9/11 is for many now. The big fear was communism from H's perspective no matter who was involved. Revolutionary Russian Jews were definitely tied to the 1918-1921 purges, and in fact, led them. - MRW_8
Danaa, if Jews were individuals, they wouldn't always circle the wagons around jewish extremists. Even the 'individuals' at mondoweiss can't bear a single goy making the exact same criticism that you or hostage get away with. Jews always circle the wagons, and you know it. Of the ten percent or so that doesn't circle the wagons, how many of them actually speak out and let their goyishe... more... - pepsi
Danaa. I saw the Armenian genocide photos in 4' by 6' grandeur in a memorial museum when I was in Yerevan, Armenia at 17 years of age and I can identify with what you're saying. The photos were blowups of the 18" x 24" photos/negs taken by that photographer who wasn't supposed to have taken them, but did. They are the only record. The shot of the Armenians digging their own graves in an... more... - MRW_8
Danna...its really odd. My two comments weren't even close to 'implying' in any way that German Jews "caused"any thing. What I was saying in my comments was that Jewish leadership 'outside ' of Germany kept meddling and giving the German Jews 'bad advice'. Bear in mind this was in the 1923-26 period before thing started getting really dicey for Jews and at that stage was mostly a... more... - American
I can't think of a single group of people less individualistic than jews. Only other cults can match it. Danaa, do you really think jews were any more individualistic at some point in the past than they are now? A bunch of rugged individualists in those eastern euro schtetls? - pepsi
They were in Spain. - MRW_8
the vast majority of jews still think the rosenbergs were innocent, and leo frank the pedo rapist murderer. Free jonathan pollard. Free marc rich. Free judea and samara. As chomsky says, jewish nationalism has nothing to do with anything. Not wall street, not 9/11, not the war on terror, nothing! What a fucking rugged individualist. - pepsi
Well I'm definitely not golden! I known Phil isn't fond of me anyway..LoL..,.cause I constantly argue that his blaming 'the West'--the whole world iow....for the holocaust is total wrong...For whatever reason he like many others want to believe the US or the Allies could have saved them but didn't just because they were Jews. ..which is crazy nonsense. - American
They were in Spain. - MRW_8 ... God bless those dark skinned members of the human family. - pepsi
hitler was well aware of the jewish led anti-christian popgoms and genocide carried out in russia and the ukraine. He knew that that is exactly what would happen if jewish led bolshevik revolutionaries inside germany were successful. If jews want to blame anybody for jews getting deported from germany, blame the soviet loyalist revalutionaries and plutocrats that starved 800,000 germans and wanted to kill many many more. Of course german jews would have been spared by the soviets. - pepsi
hitler was also probably aware of the jewish role in the armenian genocide. - pepsi
"Another important area was the press. While in power, the Young Turks ran several newspapers, including 'The Young Turk,' whose editor was none other than the Russian Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky. Jabotinsky had been educated as a young man in Italy." - pepsi are right about Hitlers's fear of Bolshevik strains in the 100,000 some Jews that fled to Germany from the Guardian newspaper a few years ago they published some Hitler papers on conversations he had with several heads of state about that concern. Oddly enough one of Hitler advisers before everything hit the fan was Jewish and he encouraged Hitler in his fear of Bolshevism. - American
"Of course german jews would have been spared by the soviets." Doubt it. They were Germans to the Russians. - MRW_8
England had the same fear. They called the Russian Jews "smelly," and did not want them in GB. This was spearheaded by previously German Jews who moved to England in the 1880s--not the regular folk who always needed new servants, gardeners, and rock cutters--and did not want the eastern Europeans upsetting their world, so they sent them to the US. We shut that down in 1924. - MRW_8
And global government was already popular with the plutocrats of the us, britain, and soviet union. German Paul Warburg set up the council on foreign relations in the us in the twenties. After WW1, germany was expected to lie down and be conquered by the globalist banking cartel. The soviet takeover of germany just got delayed a few years because of german resistance. - pepsi
The way I visualize the MW & "liberal anti-zionist" system is a game of tug-of-war, that zios are loosing. In an attempt to trick the other side to ease up on the rope zoos have conceded to the 1948 line: "Okay, we'll give you that; we were bad in 1948." Besides, it's getting harder & harder to conceal what is being done to Palestinians on a daily basis, so zoos will "confess" to that... more... - ChasMark
If I could write fiction I would write a novel set in the future; all holocaust museums would be sports bars, or roller rinks. Ya, roller rinks, I like that one the best. Shut down all those Trojan Horses at America's front door in Wash, DC, and in cities all over the nation. They are an obscenity and a lie. - ChasMark
"Ya, roller rinks, I like that one the best." How about BBQ joints? You could even give them cute names like The Circumcised Pig and have dishes like a pulled pork pita or pigs' blood matzos that's something like a blood pudding. - Todd
well done, Todd! Pineapple deserts. Say -- look above: looks like GFTG has been hacked. A critter named Sassan used a similar avatar & similar tactics to pollute a number of pro-Palestinian, pro-Iran sites. - ChasMark
A nice pineapple upside down cake for dessert, with kool-aid to wash it all down. - Todd
Why would anyone hack GFTG? - Todd
Can we get rid of it? Pepsi? - MRW_8
It's gone, W Jones. - MRW_8
Sean McBride
The Story of the Jews (TV Series 2013– ) - IMDb -
"It is hard to believe that it has taken so long for this series to be made -- and so disappointing that it isn't better than it is. The Jews are a fascinating people whose impact on history has been out of all proportion to their numbers. To tell their story properly would have required many, many hours. Unfortunately they only got five hours. What really sinks this series though is its focus. It is telling that it is titled the "story" of the Jews rather than the "history" of the Jews. Ultimately this tells an outdated and over-simplistic story that can be summed up as: the Jews are unjustly exiled from Israel, they wander and suffer irrational persecution at the hands of the gentiles, then after the Holocaust they return in triumph to Israel in 1948." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"This sort of partial history is unfortunately constant and tinged with ethno-chauvinism; Schama is quite happy to point the finger at everyone but his own people (with the exception of the final episode dealing with the Israel/Palestine issue). All too often he is content to describe the suffering of the Jews without explaining why they were persecuted. Or he explains it as mere irrational hatred, which is no answer at all." - Sean McBride
Schama left me with a bad impression of himself and of his subject -- I've watched the first two episodes. I would give the series an IMDb rating of 5. - Sean McBride
The impression that Schama leaves is that Jewish history from its earliest origins has been all about an endless series of violent conflicts with other peoples, nations and cultures -- but he seems to be totally incurious about delving into the deep causes behind the repeated pattern of conflict. As for what constitutes the core of the Jewish tradition -- Schama seems to argue that it... more... - Sean McBride
Schama's "Jewishness" doesn't rise above the level of shallow ethnic narcissism. He's an ethnic patriot who has stored up considerable resentment against a long list of cultural enemies. Not inspiring for the vast majority of humanity. - Sean McBride
I would love to closely read the script for this series (I already downloaded the ebook on which it was based) -- if anyone turns it up, let me know. - Sean McBride
I did enjoy reading Schama's book on the Rothschilds and Israel: [book; Simon Schama; Two Rothschilds and the Land of Israel; 1978; Alfred A. Knopf]. - Sean McBride
Schama is a classical liberal Zionist -- that is, an incredibly confused person. No doubt he thinks of himself as a man of the Enlightenment. - Sean McBride
"On the post-1789 world he is much better, although still partial. He rightly points out the important Jewish contribution to the Enlightenment but fails to point out their equal investment in the bloody step-child of the Enlightenment that was Communism." - Sean McBride
"The final episode, on the creation of the State of Israel, is probably the most interesting and contains the greatest variety of viewpoints. Sadly it comes down to: pre-1967 Israel (socialist, secular) good, post-1967 Israel (religious, militarist) bad. I find that too simplistic. Schama is a Zionist who wants peace in the Holy Land and I don't think he ever really deals with the contradictions inherent in his position; so long as there are two groups sharing one land there will be conflict." - Sean McBride
# A few "enemies of the Jews" in Simon Schama's world model 1. Arabs 2. Assyrians 3. Babylonians 4. Christians 5. Egyptians 6. English 7. Europeans 8. French 9. Germans 10. Greeks 11. Iranians 12. Iraqis 13. Muslims 14. pagans 15. Persians 16. Poles 17. Protestants 18. Roman Catholics 19. Romans 20. Russians 21. Spaniards 22. Syrians 23. Ukrainians - Sean McBride
If I had that many enemies, I would begin to introspect -- but that's just me. - Sean McBride
For many Jewish Zionists, Americans are now on the enemies list -- read the comments on leading Israeli and pro-Israel publications for the evidence. - Sean McBride
The first two episodes were a travesty - in the first part, the narrative was dripping with contempt for the Greeks and the Romans. Throughout the episodes there was an unmistakable line of smugness about jewish "superiority" standing against the terrible unjustness of their persecution by hethens. Jesus was just anther jewish fellow but Paul was singled out for ill-disguised... more... - Danaa
Sean, if you wanted to get an inkiling of what the brain-washing is like when you grow up in Israel, this series capturesthe spirit of it rather well. As you note above - to paraphrase - oit's along the lines of - once upon a time the great jews emerged with great laws delivered by Moses. They suffered greatly for their beliefs and stood up mightily against hellenism and the Romans.... more... - Danaa
If anyone wanted to encourage anti-Jewish sentiment anywhere and help justify whatever ill feelings there are out there against jewish persons, no better could be done than this shallow, triumphalist series. Now, why was it put on and who the heck has funded it anyways? - Danaa
Imagine 10 years of this kind of "Historical instruction" inflicted upon young people, who are in no position to question it much or to even perceive the prejudice and propaganda running through. What you get at the end is a perfect storm - extreme paranoia about all non-Jews (they are all at heart anti-semites, give or take a few saintly souls), coupled with absolute conviction about... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I hear you. Regarding funding for the series: "The Story of the Jews with Simon Schama is made possible by lead funding from The Paul & Irma Milstein Family. Major funding is generously provided by The Polonsky Foundation. Additional major support is provided by The Pershing Square Foundation, the Joseph S. and Diane H. Steinberg Charitable Trust, James and Merryl Tisch,... more... - Sean McBride
Your comment that begins "Imagine 10 years...." -- that really gets into the heart of the current crisis -- you nailed it. - Sean McBride
At the National Summit a few weeks ago Allen Brownfeld spoke eloquently about how Israel has become a religious doctrine to Jewish people in Israel as well as in USA. Jewish children are taught this religious doctrine; the flag of Israel appears in synagogues throughout USA. A woman in the audience at Nat Summit challenged the fact that holocaust, an extension of the "religious"... more... - ChasMark
Chasmark - the way to answer Phil Weiss' comment about the West's debt: the west has more than repaid the debt with interest, and all debts have a "paid off" clause, including principal. However, the West has not even begun to pay the debt to the palestinians', not even in the form of "interest only". which means that debt is continuing to accumulate interest as we move forward. At this... more... - Danaa
You may find my argument offensive, but sometimes when people like Phil, as well meaning as he is, fall into this trap of specious analogies, it's best to grant them the analogy and move the ball further afieldwithin it until it reaches a logical conundrum. See how far they are willing to roll with the punches. Notice what he revealed in his argument: a deep conviction that the teaching... more... - Danaa
An aside; this technique of argument is actually, kind of talmudic. Or, if you wish, Socratic. It may seem spurious but sometimes it works - with some people. - Danaa
Another aside - if I may predict the response of one such as Phil (assuming he can get over his annoyance at this attempt for "monetizing" the jewish trauma (which of course, he opened the door for)), he would challenge the size of the debt owed to jews,, enlarging the scope of sad 'debt' to include Russian pogroms, Spanish Inquisition and what not. Of course, once we start talking... more... - Danaa
Interesting strategies, Danaa; I wouldn't have thought along those lines. I listened to the exchanges -- Brownfeld -- Blankfort -- [Raimondo] -- Weiss -- two or three times, and came away impressed with the quickness with which Weiss processed the situation and responded to it by diverting from what I thought was the key issue -- that teaching holocaust in a way that dogmatizes the... more... - ChasMark
ChasMark - can you perhaps put up the link again for that forum? I know you gander guys have discussed it but I failed to take it down at the time. I may not be able to listen to the whole thing but parts do sound interesting. Ideally - at least for me - a transcript would be better as i can skip and race forward and backward at ease. I am BTW amazed that Weiss was willing to walk into that den of lions. Whatever you think of him, he is one courageous dude. - Danaa
Phil *is* courageous -- and a clear thinker, a fair-minded person, an insightful analyst and an elegant writer. I wouldn't have spent so much time reading what is essentially his personal blog if he weren't. I think he easily ranks among the top 5 political bloggers in the world. I don't expect him to agree with me on every issue. - Sean McBride
Danaa: It's Segment number 5: BTW, can you please subscribe to me? W.Jones is locked down as FF no longer allows punctuation in names. - WJones
Thanks WJones. I'll be checking it out by and by. - Danaa
Sean McBride
It's trending badly against her. At the moment, the Mondoweiss article on Wahl ranks second in the search results. Are Eli Lake and Jamie Kirchick still grinning and gloating? - Sean McBride
i must have missed the Mondoweiss article, Sean. Which one was it? the sameness that has crept into MW lately has had the effect of just looking at the headlines - so i could well have overlooked it. - Danaa
Here it is: [D.C. scribes party with red wine, vinyl, and image of a terrorist] - Sean McBride
Thanks. Just looked at it and I must note - with amazement - how Phil managed to completely skirt the issue of the Liz Wahl affaire and the role of the eocons in affecting regime change in Ukraine as well as the anti-Russian campaign bandwagon, driven by many in the jewish establishment (not just neocons! liberal zionists too...). Phil is staying away religiously from anything to do with Foreign Policy - other than I/P (as if the latter is not connected to everything else). Now, why is that? - Danaa
After historical debates were off limit at MW, then they said only current events could be discussed. Now what is left? That seemed like a meaty morsel for MW.I don't know why either. - Chu_
Sean McBride
Where was the U.S. Jewish outrage over Ya'alon? - Opinion Israel News | Haaretz -
"American pro-Israel advocates should not have joined in Netanyahu's silence after his defense minister made unacceptable remarks that undermine U.S.-Israel relations." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
The silence is because they basically all agree with Ya'alon. As can be found across the government and among all their social media users. had anyone done a survey of those, they'd probably find that by 4:1 most Jewish citizens of Israel believe Ya'alon stated it way too mildly. Israelis basically think Obama is a weakling, a "patsy", a light-weight. And a misguided one at that for not understanding the ways of "Power". Which only Israelis know, of course, being so macho and all. - Danaa
Danaa -- your point is supported by the attitudes expressed in many hundreds of reader comments in Israeli and pro-Israel publications since this controversy erupted. - Sean McBride
Danaa, after Netanyahu leaves office, do you think the next government will be more extreme that his? - Chu_
Chu, in one word, yes, but not without some major curtain drawing around lapid et al. After Netanyahu, we'll probably see some strange alignments. They just passed a law that raised the threshold for parties, which will mean that smaller ones may unite on one ticket. The religious segment, in particular, is bat shit crazy about the draft law and i believe they'll be a force to reckon... more... - Danaa
To finish my comment - I just don't see the "center" holding in Israel as it is shaping up politically and demographically. The threat of BDS, delegimization and international isolation will cause israelis to gang together into more nationalistic and/or more religiously oriented conflations. The overall effect that those on the outside will see is a more rightward political landscape as... more... - Danaa
I watched Naftali Bennett on BBC a few weeks ago. Would he ever be a contender? He seems like a perfect leader for Israel today. - Chu_
Sean McBride
I would fight to the death for Phil Weiss to express his Jewishness in any way he likes, as long as it does not infringe on my rights or the rights of others.
That's how I roll. :) - Sean McBride
Not only am I not upset by many expressions of Jewish culture, I rejoice in them and learn from them. Many great Jewish Jews have been my teachers. I accord them the highest respect and gratitude. - Sean McBride
Several of the most brilliant (and virtuous) people I have met in my life have been Jewish Jews -- people capable of offering extraordinary friendship. - Sean McBride
And that is why I was unable to tolerate the comments of Pepsi and JustTheFactsPlease in this group. No freaking way. - Sean McBride
Definition of a Jewish Jew: a Jew who identifies with, cares about and curates Jewish culture and civilization. - Sean McBride
Actually, I have no idea what Jewish "culture" is. Or for that matter Jewish 'civilization". It's not like Jews invented politics, democracy, philosophy or art. They walked into aa western civilization and culture and benefited from all that has gone before. For 18 centuries, that so-called Jewish "culture" was the same kind of family-oriented traditions, coupled with a stagnated form... more... - Danaa
there's basically nothing I see as Jewish 'culture' in America that is anything other than American. How do I know? because when i arrived to this great land from a backward, third world, xynophobic little place called israel, a country supposedly populated by jews, I did not recognize a single value I have been brought up on among American jews. Not one. mostly they were, to me,... more... - Danaa
As for smarts or creativity - it's really all about new York and Boston, isn't it? and the ivy league schools neither founded nor invented by Jews, as far as I know. That being said, Jews were indeed good at riding on waves hard won by others, such as the American form of democracy. Jewish people who once contributed much to that democracy (which they recognized as a good thing, just as... more... - Danaa
And one more thing - you Sean, may have been influenced by a couple of smart guys and/or a couple of nice people who happened to be jewish. I, on the other hand, benefited mostly from the good will, the forbearance, the kindness, the community and both the brilliance and creativity of many non-Jewish Americans, in whom I came to see true kindred spirits. I met a few decent jewish... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- regarding positive Jewish culture as I have experienced it -- I am referring to minds at universities like Harvard, MIT, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Stanford, UC Berkeley, etc. who have made major contributions of *universal* value in the humanities, social sciences, sciences and arts. They are low-key or entirely quiet about Zionism and Judaism and get along well with non-Jews.... more... - Sean McBride
Do they represent the majority of Jews? Of course not. But they are products of the best strains of Jewish culture. Some of the most interesting and thoughtful minds I have encountered in my life have been Jewish minds -- and also some of the people with the highest ethical values and greatest capacity for caring about other people. - Sean McBride
I needn't point out that most Irish, Italians, Anglos, etc. are not James Joyces, Leonardo da Vincis or Thomas Jeffersons. We shouldn't expect all Jews to manifest the highest ideals and standards of Jewish culture at its best. - Sean McBride
Another observation on Jews: they tend to bring incredible energy to whatever they are up to -- whether it is for good or ill. That is probably why they draw so much attention from the rest of the world -- they are forces of nature. They operate with more intensity than most other people and strongly impact the world. Being the center of this kind of attention can, of course, be dangerous. Too much success incites envy and resentment. - Sean McBride
A good example of Jews as forces of nature: Hostage at Mondoweiss. He is an operating on an entirely different level than most human beings -- with much more intensity, intellectual focus and moral seriousness. Hostage strikes me as being very Jewish in the best sense of the term -- I know this personality type well and I respect it. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- self-criticism is a very good thing -- especially tribal self-criticism -- but sometimes it can be taken too far, don't you think? Morph into melodramatic tribal self-hatred? And isn't that just the flip-side of tribal exceptionalism and self-glorification? Elements of a single psychological dynamic? - Sean McBride
"would fight to the death for Phil Weiss to express his Jewishness " why say this? You would really fight to the Death for a guy that hardly acknowledges your presence on his blog? It's this kind of sap I see coming from you that makes me cringe. Why do it, I have no idea, guess that's 'how you roll'. Mooser would laugh if he read this, for all his Jewish wisdom that you always seemed miffed by... - Chu_
"They walked into a western civilization and culture and benefited from all that has gone before." I mostly agree with Danaa on this. I know you're fond of the university model exemplar Jew, but you should really visit New York City more often. Visit the Synagogues and try to get in, or check out borough Park or Monsey and see if your virtuousness appliqué would apply. By and large the great curatators of Jewish culture are really not so friendly to your kind, Sean. - Chu_
Chu -- enter any ethnic enclave in New York City or any American big city -- Irish, Italian, Hispanic, African-American, Chinese, whatever -- and you will find the same insularity and small-mindedness. I think what really riles up many folks about Jews is that they have been so successful in rising above the ghetto mentality and operating with competence and force on the larger universal stage. Their cultural values largely account for that success. - Sean McBride
That's where you're wrong, Sean. What riles people about Jews is that they refuse to play by the rules. The Arab lobby is registered as a foreign agent; groups that represents Israel/Jews -- and the conflation is established by Israeli/Jews, not me -- refuse to register,... more... - ChasMark
Have you ever seen me shy away from criticizing the Israel lobby and its tactics? The intellectual error is in conflating "the Jews" with the Israel lobby. Many Jews are not members of the Israel lobby *or* the Jewish lobby -- they are independent minds who go their own way. Some of them are indifferent to Israeli issues; others are strong critics of the Israel lobby. Would you have ever assumed that all Irish Americans were supporters of the IRA? Perhaps drunks and thugs as well? - Sean McBride
Many Jewish Zionists do in fact claim to speak for "the Jews" -- and this creates no end of problems in Jewish/Gentile relations. They bear a large responsibility for encouraging and enabling confusion about Jewish culture and values. I mentioned above the many positive experiences I've had with Jews; I have also had many negative experiences with Jews who are pro-Israel militants. But I make an effort to discriminate among these experiences. - Sean McBride
The golden rule: treat others as you wish to be treated. I would resent being stereotyped on the basis of my ethnic and religious background. - Sean McBride
Does the multiverse care about any of these human culture wars? I wouldn't count on it. - Sean McBride
We don't live in a multiverse, we live in a universe where a state with a very dangerous attitude possesses very dangerous weapons and can exert disproportionate influence over an even more powerful state that possesses even more powerful weapons -- and whose population may be even more delusional than the client state. These two states have combined to cause the deaths of several... more... - ChasMark
Sean "Morph into melodramatic tribal self-hatred? And isn't that just the flip-side of tribal exceptionalism and self-glorification? Elements of a single psychological dynamic?" so, you are accusing me of "tribal self-hatred"? why? because I expressed doubts that jewish "achievements" are as "great" as they are cracked up to be? for stating that I see zero commonality between jews of... more... - Danaa
And on to America of the present day - yes, jewish people who happened to go to harvard, yale, NYU and princeton did accomplish much. So did many others - non-Jewish ones - who also went to ivy league schools. That goes without saying, I think. If one could start a "tribal" texas-affirmative action to get more Texans into ivy league, I think their members would have just the same energy... more... - Danaa
As for economics, the less is said the better. But just to say one thing anyways, it sure seems that the laissez-fair, invisible hand, rationalized capitalist model has been shown as having a limited shelf life, Partly because 'free' enterprise is not all that free, and partly because greed is, in fact, infinite, something that must have escaped the attention of our little genius Milton... more... - Danaa
But that's just economics. let's look over to Broadway (which appears to have kind of stagnated into same old same old), or to hollywood which has not produced a really good movie in like - how many years? (I don't mean special effect ones like "Gravity" and dystopia movies like "hunger games". Those they can still do but the stories are gone and the fun is plastic). So what happened to... more... - Danaa
So, is it "self-hatred" or is it "prophecy"? what d'you think? do I sound like Jeremiah to you? oh well, tradition -- you know. A singular talent for belly-aching from which i'm decidedly not free. - Danaa
Danaa -- please understand that my speculation about the possible bipolar nature of radical self-glorification and radical self-abnegation wasn't directed at you personally -- I found myself thinking about that concept in an abstract and generalized way (my segue into this line of thought was admittedly abrupt). - Sean McBride
Your last set of comments was *packed* with interesting ideas. I especially like your phrase "crony meritocracy" to describe a very real phenomenon in contemporary American culture. And your point that Jewish civilization was late to the party of Western and Enlightenment democracy is taken. - Sean McBride
But I am still thinking about this idea (and it is *not* directed at you personally or anything you have said): does one often find members of ethnic cultures berating their own traditions in near absolutist terms -- denying them any positive virtues at all? On reflection, I can't think of a single Irish, Italian, German or Swedish example of this -- pick your ethnic group. Many members... more... - Sean McBride
And so I am still thinking about this theory: is it possible that the more that any ethnic group drifts into self-glorification and messianic triumphalism, the more it will periodically swing in the opposite direction towards self-laceration and self-loathing? Is this a kind of bipolar/pendulum psychological condition? Leave Jews out of this -- think of any social group of any type. - Sean McBride
Regarding the sins and shortcomings of Jews -- after one adds them all up in excruciating detail (if one is inclined to do so), one is still left with the fact that there is also an extraordinary record of accomplishments -- very real accomplishments, not crony legerdemain. One needs to look at this issue in a balanced way -- not swing wildly back and forth on a bipolar pendulum -- that's my opinion. - Sean McBride
" Irish, Italian, Hispanic, African-American, Chinese, whatever -- and you will find the same insularity and small-mindedness." ~ and a dont-a forget the Greeks. Actually what ties most of the nationalities together is Christianity. (you'll find the same insularity and small-mindedness) I didn't say small mindedness. - Chu_
If a 'Jewish Jew' cares about and curates Jewish culture and civilization, wouldn't that more often make them fervent Zionists? Israel is central to Judaism Today in the world. Who opposes the state of Israel in Judaism today? The Neturei Karta and now Anti Zionists. Three fourths or more of Jews are in favor of Israel today- hard to say with so much skewed polling. This type person... more... - Chu_
Good points Danaa. The Unz article on the Myth of the American Meritocracy was powerful. I read it and it was like a missing puzzle piece to all the floating theories. This one one of the best posts I think Phil had posted from AmCon. - Chu_
Sean, this one's for you - Jews are smarter, and funnier too and your comments are there with Hophmi. - Chu_
Chu -- one can be a religious or secular Jewish Jew and be a non-Zionist or anti-Zionist -- but Zionism has taken over the Jewish establishment, certainly -- and with results that will probably be disastrous for everyone concerned. The most brilliant Jews I have met in my life haven't been Zionists or anti-Zionists -- they operated on another level entirely. In the bigger picture, the Zionist/anti-Zionist battles are a mug's game -- more important matters are afoot. - Sean McBride
Chu -- was I incorrect in my observation that Jews are overrepresented in comedy, academe, cutting-edge movements in all domains, etc.? It's easy to do the social science on this question. - Sean McBride
Certainly there have always been Jews that I have respected, who have a quick wit, etc. I was watching a bit of Israel Shahak and Noam Chomsky last week on an MIT video. I really like this type of Jewish guy (Shahak), sort of out there, intellectual, not grounded to ideology. I can understand when you talk about the disaster of Zionism. Because if will pull others Jews down like a lead... more... - Chu_
Chu -- regarding both positive and negative strains in Jewish culture. Positive: iconoclastic and independent thinkers with incredible mental electricity. Negative: a tendency for rank-and-file Jews to be susceptible to groupthink, to fall into line behind Jewish communal "authorities" and to believe things that are patently false -- to be led up the garden path and over the cliff. That... more... - Sean McBride
Regarding the future: probably only a disaster is going to reorient contemporary establishment Jewish thinking about Zionism -- the more strongly that establishment has been challenged by critical thinking, the more stubbornly it has dug in its heels. We've seen the pattern time and time again. - Sean McBride
was I incorrect in my observation that Jews are over-represented in comedy, academe, cutting-edge movements in all domains, etc.? - yes I believe your incorrect. While there are many involved in these pursuits, it's not more than others in the United States (let's say) Added, Hollywood (film) is handpicking the talent pool, Theater and yiddish go hand in hand, cutting edge movement's... more... - Chu_
Friends of mine, who are Jewish or half Jewish and claim to be liberals and generally young, can't even talk about Israel. They get all verklempt in a sad way. I've given up on it for the most. They can bash bush and the Iraq war, but don't get started with Israel. Do you know of this person? I am sure you've seen it. And they certainly don't have to be over 50 either. I like Krauss and... more... - Chu_
Chu: [Google; jews nobel prizes] When you wade through the data, it is impossible not to conclude that Jews have excelled in winning Nobel Prizes far out of proportion to their numbers vis-a-vis other ethnic groups. Why do you think this is the case? - Sean McBride
Chu -- Krauss is one of the sharpest political analysts I've seen anywhere. Hophmi epitomizes the mindset of the Jewish establishment -- that is why his presence on Mondoweiss is useful -- to get a handle on its "thinking." - Sean McBride
[book; Benjamin Ginsberg; The Fatal Embrace: Jews and the State; 1999; University of Chicago Press] - Sean McBride
[quote; Benjamin Ginsberg; "Since the 1960s, Jews have come to wield considerable influence in American economic, cultural, intellectual, and political life. Jews played a central role in American finance during the 1980s, and they were among the chief beneficiaries of that decade's corporate mergers and reorganizations. Today, though barely 2% of the nation's population is Jewish,... more... - Sean McBride
[quote; Seymour Lipset, Earl Raab; "During the last three decades Jews [in the United States] have made up 50 percent of the top two hundred intellectuals... 20 percent of professors at the leading universities ... 40 percent of partners in the leading law firms in New York and Washington ... 59 percent of the directors, writers, and producers of the 50 top-grossing motion pictures from 1965 to 1982, and 58 percent of directors, writers, and producers in two or more primetime television series."] - Sean McBride
Review of Ginsberg's book: "Ginsberg's inquiry into the rise of anti-Semitism in the United States is sensitive, unflinching and lucid. He predicts that the "unthinkable" could happen--a political alliance of radical populists and respected conservatives who make vigorous use of virulent anti-Semitic themes to attack liberal Democrats. A Johns Hopkins political science professor,... more... - Sean McBride
More: "Unlike some modern authors (e. g., Jan Tomasz Gross), Ginsberg is exceptionally forthright about the extent and significance of the Zydokomuna (Jewish Communism). Beginning with Soviet Communism, he writes: "As we saw earlier, in the aftermath of the Bolshevik revolution, Jews played an extremely prominent role in the Soviet regime." (p. 53). "Three of the six members of Lenin's... more... - Sean McBride
More: "Later, the Zydokomuna admittedly became an important factor in the Soviet imposition of Communism upon Eastern Europe. Ginsberg comments: "A third area in which Jews played a particularly noteworthy role was the governance of the Soviet Union's Eastern European satellites after World War II. Indigenous Jewish Communists provided the Soviets with a useful leadership cadre... more... - Sean McBride
Chu -- in your opinion, what are currently the most important cutting-edge movements in science, technology, politics, culture, philosophy, the arts, etc.? Who are the leaders of those movements? - Sean McBride
big questions Sean. Don't have time to thoughtfully answer them right now. - Chu_
My answer to my own question: 1. transhumanism, artificial intelligence, robotics, Big Data mining 2. genetic engineering 3. global warming/climate change science 4. Zionism, anti-Zionism - Sean McBride
Sean, for a test case of radical self-abnegation, I bring you Exhibit A - Gilad Atzmon. but israel Shahak is another good example. As for myself, what I keep trying to point out the difference between those who feel they have [somehow ]'escaped" the Israeli mind set "ghetto" , will display the psychological attributes of those who stepped out of cults. which is quite different than... more... - Danaa
Again, i think a distinction needs to be made between the "run-of-the-mill" jewish intellectual anti-zionist (like Phil) and those who hail from say, Israel, becoming anti-zionists at some point in their life. For the latter group it's really a double -whammy: it's not only an ideology - or a religion - they cast aside, but a big part of their own identity as well as their past. Avigail Abarbanel can probably explain ithe psychology at work here better than I can. - Danaa
just look at Gilad's fury, and how it went far and beyond mere anti-zionism, to encompass the foundational beliefs of judaism itself. I said before on MW comment (to Shmuel primarily) that I understand Gilad's anger because I share [some of] it. Like him, I discovered that there was this whole huge network of jews out side israel that have been propping up whatever israel was doing -... more... - Danaa
To add to your list, Sean - among the big movements - consider globalism/trans-nationalism, which ties in with corporatism. This is both something organic - from the people, through the internet - but in another aspect is something imposed from without, through the financial/corporate elites. - Danaa
Danaa -- I hear you -- there is an important *context* for your revolt against Zionist- and Israeli-defined Jewish culture that I haven't experienced myself and can't begin to understand on a visceral level -- this is much more than an intellectual exercise for you, Gilad and many others. I think there is a possibility, however, that once you work through this difficult process of... more... - Sean McBride
Danaa -- you are right -- the accumulation of incredible wealth and power in the hands of a tiny transnational elite is a huge movement in contemporary human affairs -- one that has been enabled by neoconservative and neoliberal ideology. (And quite a few Jews have been thought leaders in that movement -- think Milton Friedman, for instance.) - Sean McBride
pardon the interruption -- comments above hint at a failure to properly apprehend the entire historical timeline. Jews have been disproportionately represented among the wealthiest of multiple cultures since at least the time of the Babylonian exile. The "tragedies" of the Jewish people have been their greatest benefits/opportunities: In Egypt, exiled Jews enjoyed special favors and... more... - ChasMark
The Fatal Flaw in Putin’s America Policy | The Nation -
The Fatal Flaw in Putin’s America Policy  | The Nation
Journalist Dreyfuss claims that Putin's "flaw" is his failure to realize that Obama is DIFFERENT from Bush-Clinton; Obama offered a "reset," economic perqs; Obama thought Russia was on the same page re taking down Iran; Putin failed to take up Obama on all these generous tenders. - ChasMark from Bookmarklet
Almost every comment to this article was critical of the author and supportive of Russia-Putin. - ChasMark
This comment: ""There have been a number of reports that one of Kiev's oligarchs is hiring mercenaries to crush dissent in eastern Ukraine. Igor Kolomoysky who has Israeli citizenship is hiring Greystone mercs, a subsidiary of Blackwater. This combined with Right Sector and Svoboda in Kiev doesn't strike me as a stable government. And Dreyfuss is talking about Putin's fatal error[!]" - ChasMark
I am listening to the Senate hearing on Russia----Leading the fight to leave Russia alone and respect the Crimea vote to join Russia is Sen. Rohbabach (calif)----leading the fight to challenge Russia and ruin it by taking their gas business away is Engle and the Dems. Since the American public wont stand for any more wars our 2 bit hick politicians will use sanctions against all their imaginary enemies now. Disgusting. - American
Dreyfuss is another of the babling idiot class. Way too many of them around these days. I continue to be amazed - and gratified - by the good sense demonstrated by so many readers' comments, on the pages of just about every article I've been reading. Including several on The Guardian. - Danaa
I'm with you on this one, Danaa. Fucking idiots abound. Putin got Obama's number early on. In addition to his international law degree, Putin's PhD was on how to bring a totalitarian state into the modern age by exploiting the nation's natural resources. The guy has more brains and knowledge of history in his little finger than Obama's entire cabinet does. Just listen to the blather that Obama is emitting overseas right now. I'm embarrassed to be an American. - MRW_8
"" I'm embarrassed to be an American. - MRW_8 )......DITTO - American
They often look like chumps. But they averted the Iran B/S ~ we have to strike tomorrow. Credit should be given them for destroying that neocon pipe dream. They're waiting patiently for Hillary to grabs the reins. - Chu_
Chu, could you explain "They're waiting for Hillary to grab the reins" -- are you implying that H Clinton is not a war hawk? - ChasMark
I meant the neocon cabal is eagerly waiting for their next hawk to do their bidding. But I wonder if even Hillary would be associated with these back-water Israeli-first clowns come election season? The Clintons are now married into the tribe, so I wonder if that gives them more incentive. They were always suck-ups to NY money, but now they are pretty well set. - Chu_
Keith: Funny, I rate him as the most effective imperial President ever. He has been much more effective in implementing Wall Street’s agenda than George W. Bush. More effective even than slick Willie. Of course, he doesn’t actually set the policies, he merely sells them to a demoralized electorate. - Chu_
Sic Semper Tyrannis : "Ukrainian Nationalism - it's roots and nature" from Vineyard of The Saker -
Sic Semper Tyrannis : "Ukrainian Nationalism - it's roots and nature" from Vineyard of The Saker
"A "nation" does not need to have deep historical and cultural roots, it does not need to have a legitimate historiography, in fact, all it takes to "create a nation" is a certain amount of people identifying themselves as a community - all the rest can be created/invented later. - ChasMark from Bookmarklet
"Thus the argument of some Russians that there is no such thing as a Ukrainian nation is fundamentally mistaken: if there are enough people identifying themselves as "Ukrainian" then a distinct "Ukrainian nation" exists. It does not matter at all that there is no trace of that nation in history or that its founding myths are ridiculous as long as a distinct common is shared by its... more... - ChasMark
"As an aside, but an important one I think, I would note that the Mongols played a similarly crucial role in the creation of the modern Russian nation. After all, what are the "founding blocks" of the Russian culture. The culture of the Slavs before the Christianization of Russia in the 10th century? Yes, but minimally. The continuation of the Roman civilization after the Fall of the 2nd Rome? Yes, to some degree, but not crucially. The adoption of the Christian faith after the 10 century? Yes, definitely. - ChasMark
"But the Russian *state* which grew out of the rather small Grand Duchy of Moscow was definitely shaped by the Mongol culture and statecraft, not Byzantium or ancient Rus. It would not be incorrect to say that ancient Kievan Rus eventually gave birth to two distinct nations: a Ukrainian one fathered by the Papist occupation and a Russian one, fathered by the Mongol occupation. In that... more... - ChasMark
I thought that the Mongol occupation left more of an impression on Russia than the Mongols themselves, and that the Mongols were mostly interested in revenue collection rather than cultural or physical domination. Didn't Russian princes do the Mongol's dirty work? Was there really even much of an occupation? My recollection is that the threat of a return of the Mongol armies is what... more... - Todd
Todd - everything I know -- rather, am attempting to learn -- about Russian history is in the comments I've copied-and-pasted. I hope pepsi doesn't mind that I use this forum as my notebook of things I want to learn more about. Your comment that gives alternate perspectives of my c-and-p shows that you've got far more knowledge of the topic than I do. thanks for sharing. - ChasMark
Chas, my comment was based on what I remember being taught. Here's an alternative view that I found this morning. - Todd
i hope you all feel welcome to use this feed as a notebook for research subjects you don't fully understand yet, even if your research and collection of links you place here never leads anywhere conclusive. It can be very useful and others here might chip in with new leads or analysis. - pepsi
Chas, I guess that by the time the Mongols got around to conquering Russia they had learned quite a bit from those they had already conquered. I wast taught that the Mongols brought very little in the way of technological or cultural advances to those they conquered. I remember reading of the Mongols forcing conquered engineers to build siege weapons for them on the threat of death, so... more... - Todd
Also the mongols didn't know what to do against castles - JustTheFactsPlease
Did the same Mongols also invade Persia? - ChasMark
Same Mongols, but maybe different armies under different commanders. - Todd
The Mongols, who contributed nothing in and of themselves with respect to culture and science, were the greatest disseminators of culture and science across Russia, China, and Europe. Genghis Khan ruled over 1/4 of the world's population by the time he died. His enormous genius was in recognizing what other cultures produced and protecting them. - MRW_8
He was brutal in conquering other countries but he protected the engineers, craftsmen, and scientists. He protected artists and all cultural artisans. He opened trade from the edge of China to Europe. He opened entire continents to new ideas, firearms, the compass, painting, literature, and scientific exploration, which he brought from the Muslim worlds he conquered. Europeans started... more... - MRW_8
He controlled something like 9 million square miles, the largest empire ever seen. He protected and promoted any science, any cultural innovation that would benefit his own people. His biggest building schtick--the only permanent structures he concentrated on--was bridges. He built more bridges than any ruler in history. He built whatever was the forerunner of the Forbidden Palace in... more... - MRW_8
The reason he didn't waste much time on the European areas he conquered was because they didn't have much to give. Instead, he introduced arabic, persian, and chinese science and culture to help them. He was unique in that he passed on the culture of the group he just conquered to the culture of the new group he was conquering. He created the first paper currency. - MRW_8
One interesting book is Jack Weatherford's on Genghis Khan and his contribution to western civilization. It's "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World." You can look it up on Amazon and peak inside. As with so much of our history, we were taught bullshit in school. - MRW_8
Weatherford writes, "The new technology, knowledge, and commercial wealth created the Renaissance in which Europe rediscovered some of its prior culture, but more importantly, absorbed the technology for printing, firearms, the compass, and the abacus from the East. As English scientist Roger Bacon observed in the thirteenth century, the Mongols succeeded not merely from martial... more... - MRW_8
Both the liberals and the neos are all over the media demanding the US 'do something" about Russia. Rachel Maddow is practically foaming at the mouth screaming for war on MSNBC and earlier Matthew's show was about how terrible it is that people use the words Nazi and Hitler to describe things that aren't as terrible as the holocaust--how disrespectful it is to Jews..naturally both his... more... - American
Chaucer and Bacon sang his praises, but it was Voltaire who started the myth that he was a wanton, cruel conqueror. Khan would never allow his likeness to be made, no coins, pictures, statues, while he was alive. This lack spawned all sorts of stories over the 400 years after his death, and the usage of the words, 'mogul', 'mongoloid'. Incidentally, the Crimean Tatars are descendants.... more... - MRW_8
American. I'm glad my TV is broken right now. Rachel Maddow has turned into an idiot. - MRW_8
Call the White House comment line. 202-456-1111. Keep calling them. I regularly tell the operator who DOES write a précis of the comments down that Obama and Biden are loser warmongers. These calls get noticed more than emails. They figure one call is worth about 100 votes. So don't think they go unnoticed. - MRW_8
It used to be that one letter = 10,000 people, but because of the anthrax thing, the letter won't reach anyone for a month once it gets to the WH. - MRW_8
They don't ask your name or where you are calling from. So keep it short and punchy. You'll get transcribed that way. - MRW_8
"After he died at age 62, his son and heirs continued his empire, which I think extended into the 1400s, didn't it?" It's my understanding that some of Genghis Khan's direct ancestors ruled in central Asia until the early 1900s. I've also read that a fair percentage of men in East Asia share his genes. Khan was a genius at warfare and politics, and he used the technology and advances of... more... - Todd
Todd. "the Mongols were conquerors and exploiters more than innovators and enlighteners." You got that right. Genghis Khan grew up in a felt hut on a steppe with zip. But he was brilliant in recognizing what others were doing and moving that info around his conquered countries. - MRW_8
Those felt huts are cool -- literally, and warm in the winter. Someone shd manufacture them for the homeless. And also, for energy efficiency inside a cold room in a house. http://education.nationalgeogr... In Iran, Baktiari nomads live in yurts made of black wool. The wool permits air flow in summer, and in winter moisture causes the felt to swell and close up, sheltering from cold winds. - ChasMark
'' Those felt huts are cool -- literally, and warm in the winter. ''...Good to know, I may need one. I've been told I will be living in the back yard if I don't get a grip on my keyboard warrior career. - American
No self-respecting keyboard warrior takes lip from a woman. - Todd
MRW, regarding Rachel Maddow - the new member of the lobotomized media class - she is one of the perfect examples of how the spirit of zionism (through pressure from above and below) turns people into bubling idiots. I can bring more examples, including the entirety of MSNBC, CNN, Daily beast and Fox. Way too many to list. - Danaa
An aside; regarding your discussion of the Mongols - it is my belief that Ginghis Khan is due for some major image rehabilitation. - Danaa
it is my belief that Ginghis Khan is due for some major image rehabilitation. - Danaa ... Non-Jews never get image rehabilitation, unless the person rehabilitating the goy's image is a precious brilliant jew with a heart of gold. - pepsi
lol! You are as charming as ever, Pepsi. I see no image rehabilitation in your future! - Todd
Danaa, all you have to do is look at this animated timeline of who ruled Europe, part of Russia, the Middle East and the north of Africa from around 300 or 400 AD until now to see that history books teach us absolute bullshit. Americans railing against the Muslims have no clue about the great Islamic empires that prevailed for longer than... more... - MRW_8
Samantha Power vs Richard Falk: "U.S.'s Power is glad 'noxious' U.N. rights envoy for Palestine leaving - Yahoo News -
"By Louis Charbonneau UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The United States on Monday welcomed the imminent departure of a U.N. human rights investigator for the Palestinian territories whom Washington accused of being biased against Israel and spreading conspiracy theories about the September 11, 2001 attacks. Richard Falk, the outgoing United Nations special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, told a news conference as recently as last week that Israeli policies bore "unacceptable characteristics of colonialism, apartheid and ethnic cleansing. - ChasMark from Bookmarklet
In a statement to Reuters, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power condemned what she described as "Falk's relentless anti-Israeli bias, his noxious and outrageous perpetuation of 9/11 conspiracy theories." "His publication of bizarre and insulting material has tarnished the U.N.'s reputation and undermined the effectiveness of the Human Rights Council," she said. "The United States welcomes Mr. Falk's departure, which is long overdue."" - ChasMark
Power used some of the words I have in the list, LOL - JustTheFactsPlease
she's a good shiksa wife like drew barrymore. - pepsi
Samantha Power - the new "good wife". She presents a rather disgusting spectacle for someone who was bought, hook, line and sinker. That she represents the US on the UN is a testament to how low the US has sunk - now that she turned out to be the neocons' poodle. It's really a pathetic sight and a shame for all that have to listen to her diatribes. - Danaa
Falk: "My role of trying to speak honestly about the situation that Palestinians are facing under this condition of prolonged occupation generates this sort of reaction that TRIES to paint anti-Israeli criticism as a form of anti-Semitism," he said. Surely Power (and Susan) Rice must realize they are the ones who are defending the aggressor. Israel's cannot stop it's lust for illegal land. Falk is the only one who makes sense. - Chu_
Powers perfect example of whats wrong with the US----all the Ellis island neo, zionist and liberal interventionist ideology . If no one is up for a bloody revolution then the only other alternative I see is to work for and pray for the Presidential election of a 'Isolationist' for the executive wing. ..we are evidently going to have to go to an 'extreme' in order to bounce back to balance. - American
If Congress steadily holds less than 10% percent approval for so long, why isn't the 4th estate media establishment proposing alternatives for government (i.e third parties, etc)? I think after 9-11 media became the mouthpiece of government, and now they remain the stenographers. The bloggers have taken over as the truth tellers, albeit without access to the Congress. - Chu_
The media is corporate, elite and Zionist interest only The press and media 'duty to inform the public' bit the dust long ago. - American
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
Randi Zuckerberg to headline event for new AIPAC ‘technology division’ -
Randi Zuckerberg, sister of Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, will be helping AIPAC promote its new "Technology Division" at a New York event March 31st hosted with the New York Observer.
wasn't the NY observer Phil's old paper? - Danaa
Yes -- Jared Kushner's New York Observer. - Sean McBride
The two most interesting and important journalists of the last decade: Glenn Greenwald and Philip Weiss. Then perhaps Jeremy Scahill and Matt Taibbi. - Sean McBride
Taibbi's work is spotty -- not sustained. - Sean McBride
What makes for great journalism -- a strong and original personal voice, a powerful mind, an elegant literary style and the courage and stamina to go up against the strongest powers on the planet. Corporate and establishment journalism breeds armies of mediocrities who will have no impact on the world. - Sean McBride
Regarding "Jewishness" controversies -- I see Greenwald and Weiss as being quite Jewish in the very best "wrestling with God" sense. - Sean McBride
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
I’m proud to announce the newest addition to the Intercept staff, award-winning investigative journalist, Jordan Smith. The post Welcome, Jordan Smith appeared first on The Intercept.
Sean, I'll import my own comment that I made on GFTG re my concerns about greenwald and the First Look enterprise. I am curious about what your own thoughts are... - Danaa
This BTW tracks with the recent dearth of solid opinion pieces by Glenn greenwald et al. No way that he would NOT have been out there all over the map bashing all and sundry over the Ukraine propaganda, back in his salon days. I find it kind of interesting how he changed going from Salon to The guardian to now, First Look. In Salon he had, I believe complete independence and used it to... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- would you say that Max Blumenthal is still doing the hard work that Greenwald, Scahill and Taibbi used to do? [link; How Cold War-Hungry Neocons Stage Managed RT Anchor Liz Wahl’s Resignation] (This hits it out of the park, in my opinion.) - Sean McBride
Danaa -- during the early phase of their Internet careers, Greenwald, Scahill and Taibbi were all amazing -- especially Greenwald, who took on the entire neocon/neolib political establishment all by himself and crushed it -- one man against the world. We haven't seen much of that earlier Greenwald lately. - Sean McBride
On the other hand, the NSA story is one the biggest journalistic coups in American history -- perhaps even world history -- it's huge. And from my understanding Greenwald and crew still haven't digested and made sense of all the information in their possession. It would be understandable if they are still focused exclusively on NSA, given the importance of the story. - Sean McBride
Your speculation that the powers that be might try to subtly derail and co-opt Greenwald, Scahill and a few other investigative journalists in their class is perfectly reasonable. That is why it is important to pay close attention to the editorial stance of First Look over the coming months. - Sean McBride
First Look should hire Max Blumenthal: he's smart as a whip and fearless. - Sean McBride
Greenwald's and Snowden's repeated promises that there was more to come, more to come, proved to be true and then some -- those were not idle claims. This latest story, for instance, is mind-boggling: [link; NSA surveillance program reaches ‘into the past’ to retrieve, replay phone calls] - Sean McBride
Sean, agree about Max Blumenthal - that last piece was priceless. For that reason, I actually hope he wouldn't be invited to join First Look. I really have forebodings about so many top notch writers who will now be, if not cowed, then kept too busy and too cognizant of consequences, to do their previous fearless writings. I see you agree that greenwald has not reached that fire in the... more... - Danaa
Upshot: one must be a bit hungry to be truly angry, assuming they have what it takes to harness that anger. I think at First look, they will all feel the responsibility of "respectability" which means, for example, no out there "conspiracy theories" , like 9/11. - Danaa
Another result - no serious critiques of AIPAC's power or "demonization" of israel's. I predict totally luke warm, goods on that front, though more likely they'll stay away from it altogether. - Danaa
Note that these are all predictions based on pattern recognition and some hunches on human behavior. I sure hope I'll be proven to be wrong, at least partly. - Danaa
Chris hedges is one f my counter-examples - a paen to independence. The minute you feel obligated to your own publication platform, the minute you need to submit to editorial judgement, it's the beginning of the end of one's spiritual and intellectual independence. Take richard Silverstein as another example - he is hungry, thin skinned and passionate. all of which can come together in... more... - Danaa
Agree with you about Hedges' and Silverstein's courage and authenticity. And your pattern recognition abilities and intuition are first-rate. Regarding 9/11: very few people seem to have noticed that all investigation and research into that topic (even conventional inquiries) have been frozen for years now -- which makes no sense at all. I'm sure that Greenwald has noticed but knows... more... - Sean McBride
Great Blumenthol (don't forget Khalek) article. Kirchick was reading the Bolshevik playbook and managed to get Wahl to to turn tricks for her own self promotion - hardly a noble act for an news anchor, more like grandstanding for personal gain that will ultimately benefit the [FPI] neoconservatives. Would any news organization hire someone like this after such a cheap stunt? Neocons think they are progressive, but they are really a shady group of delinquents - Kirchick is livin' proof. - Chu_
the silence from the mondobolsheviks re: ukraine is deafening.
the situation is dominated by jewish lobby, but mondoweiss sees nothing. - pepsi
i think the jewish community generally, and mondoweiss and most of it's jewish commenters specifically, would love to see a regime change done to russia. They want prokhorov in charge and the imf to finish running the table on the goyishe world. - pepsi
check this out pepsi -- The Corporate Interests behind the Ukraine Putsch, by J P Sottile Cargill, Monsanto, Eli Lilly, John Deere, DuPont Pioneer - ChasMark
The "Bolshevik" position is: - W.Jones
I expect a full report by you in the morning. - W.Jones
It appears that the Jewish lobby believed that Russia would just roll over for them, just as they seem to believe that the rest of America will do the same on their domestic issues. It's hard to believe that there will be no ugliness in the future. - Todd
jones, that article tried to make putin and the 'american imperialists' look equally bad. It also tried to paint a glowing picture of lenin and trotsky and their glorious revolution. That communist rag tries to make it sound like the ussr was only bad once stalin took over. It also called russia's military pathetic. Just more jewish tribal politicing. Jews ran the ussr under lenin and... more... - pepsi
Todd always puts things so well - JustTheFactsPlease
Hi Pepsi. Naturally you do not have to agree with Bolsheviks. Rather I wish to point out that they do not agree with what is happening in Ukraine. The pro-"Russian" oligarchs and pro-"EU" oligarchs both run Ukraine badly, which is a reason it was possible for the latter to fund the mobs against the former. Putin noted that Yanukovych was doing a bad job dealing with poverty. Yes, it... more... - W.Jones
jones, by pretending the ukrainian public is as mistreated now as it will be under imf chains is taking sides with their jewish brethren. By not pointing out the jewish commonality of the key actors in this conflict, they are covering for their jewish brethren. The same reason mondoweiss is dead silent. Your commie link there doesnt explicitly choose sides, but it does so implicitly, and in spades. Slippery language by slippery nationalists posing as humane socialists. - pepsi
It didn't say the IMF would be equally bad IIRC. It didnt point out religious backgrounds, but few do. - W.Jones
if only we had trotsky to straighten all this out. - pepsi
It would at least be interesting. Lenni Brenner is a Trotskyist. Lenin: - W.Jones
"Todd always puts things so well." Seriously, they act like history has stopped now that they have weaseled their way into power. Everyone has interests to protect. Russia had interests to protect long before the Cold War, just as Americans have interests that have nothing to do with neocon or progressive Jews. I couldn't possibly know the power behind the scenes anywhere, but I would... more... - Todd
MRW posted some great comments on Sic Semper Tyrannis. MRW might agree that it's a mistake to analyze Russia/Putin in the old categories and in terms of Lenin, Trotsky, Communism. Those ideologies were imposed on Russia from without; imo Putin is attempting a renaissance of authentic, Byzantine Christian on friendly terms w/ Muslim, pre-Bolshevik pre-Stalin but Non-monarchical Russia.... more... - ChasMark
you cant talk about past events with mondoweiss and now current events are not reported on. No wonder MW is drying up. Too much censoring doesn't work. - Chu_
Chu, do you think MW is drying up? i know the comments sections have become kind of thin - still a few good ones here and there (am not following as keenly as before myself) but a lot is taken up by responding to the few resident and/or migrant trolls. It just seems that people don't seem to want to contribute much original thought to the comments any longer - agree or disagree. - Danaa
As for the posts themselves - yes, something seems to have become a bit stolid. It's like the horizons have closed in - may be in response to pressure to avoid discussing current affairs on anything not directly and instantly related to I/P. That includes fewer and fewer contributions from Phil himself especially those runimating on Jewish identity or even tangential issues, like his take on American football - a piece I really liked. I do see some evidence of a straightjacket being laced up. - Danaa
Specifically, the one thing I miss are the original articles (rather than the rehash of events and ideas put out elsewhere, with a few quotations, couple of lines and that's it). Nothing at all about the crazy politics going on between Qatar and Saudi Arabia, for example, something that definitely has a bit impact on gaza and general intra-palestinian politics. Seems strange to avoid all of that and even stranger is the complete avoidance of the events surrounding Ukrainia. - Danaa
I feel like I've lost interest a while ago. I check it once in a while. but there is no more good meat in the comments section to learn from. - Chu_
And waiting is so lame for a post. Here I get instant results - Chu_
Does Shingo or Taxi even post anymore? I see Hostage is still at it. - Chu_
And Trolls like Wondering Jew and Homphmi are absurd. They are fanatics. Hophmi of course is way worse. Then there are the mushy Donalds and I'm like, yawn, who needs it. - Chu_
What does Adam do at MW anyway? I know Jeff B said that he was Phil's gatekeeper. I don't see any new articles coming from Adam. - Chu_
MW needs to get rid of some of the trolls....and trolls they the jeffb character...a ignorant idiot who post absolutely ridiculous stuff, so ridiculous its a joke....and then the entire thread is people replying to this idiot who sounds like he came to the US with the flood of 90's Russian Jewish 'refugees" and is living in his momma's basement. Utter waste of time. - American
MW needs more politics and world coverage because we are seeing --if I'm not mistaken--the "convergence' of a lot of interest and plots and double plots at play, which Israel is and will play a part in. There are too many hot spots right now in the ME-- Saudi and Israel vr Iran-- Saudi and Israel vr Syria-- Saudi vr Qatar,-- Egypt vr Hamas, --Qatar supporting Gaza therefore vr Egypt and... more... - American
Phil has worn out the Jewish angst angle , we all know that angle now and its nothing but a constant repeat, he should move on to the bigger picture .I cant speak for Jewish readers of MW but no one else wants to re read 10,000 arguments over who is Jew and Jewish values and what the bible says and how Zionism has ruined the Jews or saved them if you're a zio troll. - American
Some of it is OK. I wish he would answer my question about the Christian friends thing, though. - W.Jones
Jones, Can you explain the Christian friends thing? I don't understand. - Chu_
America, I kind of agree with some of what you say, especially the obvious need for MW to move to the "bigger picture". Israel is a mover on the geopolitical scene, as has become increasingly clear to many. I am sure there's an Israeli angle on the Ukraine as well, not just a few tid-bits on some ex-IDF soldiers manning the Maidan barricades. As long as the blog persists in the... more... - Danaa
"That includes fewer and fewer contributions from Phil himself especially those runimating on Jewish identity or even tangential issues, like his take on American football - a piece I really liked." Really? What did you like about that post, Danaa? - Todd
This BTW tracks with the recent dearth of solid opinion pieces by Glenn greenwald et al. No way that he would not have been out there all over the map bashing all and sundry over the Ukraine propaganda, back in his salon days. I find it kind of interesting how he changed going from Salon to The guardian to now, First Look. In Salon he had, I believe complete independence and used it to... more... - Danaa
Todd, the piece on Football kind of tracked with my own thoughts on the subject, namely that it is a modern version of the gladiators of old Rome. Phil pointed out the enormous toll in injuries participation in the game inflicts, not just on the professional level but the College games as well. And now going down to the high school level. I will be quick to admit that I never liked... more... - Danaa
I did notice that Phil did watch Football and proudly shared that fact, along with his own misgivings (a la I watch it, sure, but then feel guilty about it. Which is very jewish indeed). I think lots of "urbane" and "intelligensia" people kind of get into football watching as a way of giving themselves some virtual testosterone injection, though they themselves have never played the... more... - Danaa
CHU: You asked about my question for Phil. It is here: - W.Jones
Does anyone know what the hell 'Jewish prophetic tradition" is ? In one of Phil's post he suggest NPR host have mar ellis on ----->''she really ought to have Marc Ellis on to talk about the Jewish prophetic tradition and Israel militarism''. - American
Danna...annie does seem to try to bring different angles and subjects to MW but she cant carry the whole load. I would not be surprised if Phil was doing something else and or tired of it----how many times can you repeat yourself or one theme. - American
I addressed several comments to Phil about having more articles by people like Walt and other FP experts--- not just Jewish figures and the tribe on I/P and Isr-USA------but he's ignored the suggestion. He thinks or at least wants to pretend the Jews are going to solve the Israel problem so he features mainly Jewish figures and opinions ---even as he points out how only Jewish opinion is featured in the msm on Israel...LOL A case of tunnel vision. - American
American, you are right about annie. She does really try and especially so in keeping some focus on individual palestinians as well as stories that feture Palestinian viewpoint. She does not get commended enough for valiance, IMO. - Danaa
OTOH it could be that Phil is seeing the handwriting on the wall----that there isn't going to be any large Jewish movement against zionism and Israel......not one large enough to change anything...and its depressing him. - American
It's a theory I share - American - at least partially. For a long time now he has been waiting for The great Schism among the Jews of America. But perhaps he has resigned to the fact that it's going to be neither great, nor happening any time soon. may be he is coming to accept that most jewish Americans simply don't care enough to weight in one way or another. The majority are simply... more... - Danaa
To add to this scenario, I think many, including MW people, are in a kind of a waiting mode - will Kerry be able to drag Abbas - kicking and screaming half the way - to agree on some framework? will the Americans be able to prevail upon netanyahoo to agree to "something"? I do think that it's hard right now to predict which way the winds will blow should the framework "rabbit" be pulled... more... - Danaa
Well I am listening to Kerry right now..makes me want to just go ahead and kill myself.....gawd! what a f'ing idiot. He is making a speech to students about American "exceptionalism".... and how we have to do a few things at home so we can 'take our wonderfulness to other countries". gag,gag,gag! And some idiot student wants to know what we are going to about Russia not being nice to... more... - American
Take it easy, American. Best to turn off the turkeys once in a while. Saves on blood pressure medication.....recommendation: may be watch norwegian reality show about wood burning for a while? I hope they'll have their dedicated channel on the tele soon - we could all use something like that.... - Danaa
If swift-boating doesn't work, how about a swift kick in the ass? Why do these supposedly smart people even want high political positions which require them to act like controlled morons? If these idiots manage to start a war with Russia over the Ukraine, then they deserve nothing less than the guillotine. - Todd
"Todd, the piece on Football kind of tracked with my own thoughts on the subject, namely that it is a modern version of the gladiators of old Rome." Danaa, it's always interesting to see how foreigners view American football. I played Pop Warner from age 5 until my sophomore year of high school when I decided that I didn't want to be around football people anymore. My father played... more... - Todd
Todd, it is true about foreigners - even after decades in the US they just can't warm up to American Football. There's something about that game that requires growing up with the entire hype to "get" it. BTW, very few jewish Americans seem to play football, and fewer still ever reached the top teams' ranks (though I guess there are a few college players). Still, many Jewish guys (always... more... - Danaa
Also Todd re war mongers, to understand neocons one has to be a little bent, and in a certain way. Take McCain - what did he just say? "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a nation". And that guy was a candidate for president! - Danaa
Jones, I read that article that you cite. It seems Phil is essentially saying that if you were a real believer of Christ, you would be no friend of his. That is a typical position of most NY Jews. Who are essentially aethiests and look down upon Christianity and religion in general. I know many people who believe this attitude. They say, 'if everyone could stop being religious, we could... more... - Chu_
If Phil is an aethiest why does go on and on about "Jewish Prophetic Tradition"..? What the hell is Jewish Prophetic tradition? - American
I thought Ellis was the prophet. I don't even understand what they are going for with that anyway. Too bad Mooser wan't around for that. He would have laughed at it. - Chu_
Sean McBride
Fwd: Getting Ukraine Wrong By JOHN J. MEARSHEIMER MARCH 13, 2014 (New York Times) (via
Why hasn't the New York Times opened up this article for comments, discussion and debate? Or have I missed the comments button? One increasingly gets the impression that the New York Times is terrified of its own readers. - Sean McBride
American wrote: "The NYT cut out the comment sections because comments were running 1000 to 1 against Israel by NYT readers and too much 'factual' information was being presented by commenters which destroyed the article's credibility and claims. The last time I commented on a Israel piece in the NYT I got 396 recommends-----since on that comment board there were only 44 other... more... - Sean McBride
The New York Times hates free speech and open and rational debate. They can't handle it. And it's all about the Zionism. - Sean McBride
Same with WaPo and The Guardian - comments run 100:1 against the "official" story line. Whether it's Syria, or Ukraine or Israel/palestine. The terends are unmistakable. - Danaa
Not only that but the other noteworthy element in comments section is that those voicing dissent often put up thoughtful and/or well resourced comments, the other side has hysteria, hyperbole and name calling as substitute for most of it's comments. Example; I put up a comment disputing the Guardian Columnist take on Crimea and the Ukraine (a columnist who was basically Ra-Ra for the... more... - Danaa
The people know. or at least those who read and care to know, do. Trust in the official story on almost anything, whether in the US or Europe (and probably Asia too) is practically nil. - Danaa
Danaa -- it's also interesting to notice that the Editor picks (especially at the New York Times, I've noticed) are often at variance with reader picks, in a way that reveals a clear bias. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
What Neocons Want from Ukraine Crisis | Consortiumnews (Robert Parry) -
"President Barack Obama has been trying, mostly in secret, to craft a new foreign policy that relies heavily on cooperation with Russian President Vladimir Putin to tamp down confrontations in hotspots such as Iran and Syria. But Obama’s timidity about publicly explaining this strategy has left it open to attack from powerful elements of Official Washington, including well-placed neocons and people in his own administration." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"The gravest threat to this Obama-Putin collaboration has now emerged in Ukraine, where a coalition of U.S. neocon operatives and neocon holdovers within the State Department fanned the flames of unrest in Ukraine, contributing to the violent overthrow of democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych and now to a military intervention by Russian troops in the Crimea, a region in southern Ukraine that historically was part of Russia." - Sean McBride
This article deserves more attention. - Sean McBride
"Though I’m told the Ukraine crisis caught Obama and Putin by surprise, the neocon determination to drive a wedge between the two leaders has been apparent for months, especially after Putin brokered a deal to head off U.S. military strikes against Syria last summer and helped get Iran to negotiate concessions on its nuclear program, both moves upsetting the neocons who had favored heightened confrontations." - Sean McBride
This is single best article I've been able to turn up on the subject. The mainstream media are of course discussing none of these issues -- they are part of the neocon political and propaganda machine. - Sean McBride
"Without doubt, the neocons’ most dramatic – and potentially most dangerous – counter-move has been Ukraine, where they have lent their political and financial support to opposition forces who sought to break Ukraine away from its Russian neighbor. Though this crisis also stems from the historical division of Ukraine – between its more European-oriented west and the Russian-ethnic east... more... - Sean McBride
"Nuland was soon at work planning for “regime change,” encouraging disruptive street protests by personally passing out cookies to the anti-government demonstrators. She didn’t seem to notice or mind that the protesters in Kiev’s Maidan square had hoisted a large banner honoring Stepan Bandera, a Ukrainian nationalist who collaborated with the German Nazis during World War II and whose militias participated in atrocities against Jews and Poles." - Sean McBride
"The Ukraine crisis has given Official Washington’s neocons another wedge to drive between Obama and Putin. For instance, the neocon flagship Washington Post editorialized on Saturday that Obama was responding “with phone calls” when something much more threatening than “condemnation” was needed. It’s always stunning when the Post, which so energetically lobbied for the U.S. invasion of... more... - Sean McBride
Has Obama lost control of his own State Department? Is Kerry a rogue? - ChasMark
"The reality, however, appears to have been that neocon elements from within the U.S. government encouraged the overthrow of the elected president of Ukraine via a coup spearheaded by neo-Nazi storm troopers who then terrorized lawmakers as the parliament passed draconian laws, including some intended to punish the Russian-oriented regions which favor Yanukovych." - Sean McBride
"The Post editors are fond of calling for ultimatums against various countries, especially Syria and Iran, with the implication that if they don’t comply with some U.S. demand that harsh actions, including military reprisals, will follow. But now the neocons, in their single-minded pursuit of endless “regime change” in countries that get in their way, have taken their ambitions to a dangerous new level, confronting nuclear-armed Russia with ultimatums." - Sean McBride
Did you hear Josh Landis discuss Syria on C Span Washington Journal this morning? - ChasMark
"The madness of the neocons has long been indicated by their extraordinary arrogance and their contempt for other nations’ interests. They assume that U.S. military might and other coercive means must be brought to bear on any nation that doesn’t bow before U.S. ultimatums or that resists U.S.-orchestrated coups. Whenever the neocons meet resistance, they don’t rethink their strategy;... more... - Sean McBride
# The villains in this narrative: 1. Carl Gershman 2. David Petraeus 3. Frederick Kagan 4. Hillary Clinton 5. John McCain 6. NED (National Endowment for Democracy) 7. neoconservatives 8. Robert Gates 9. Victoria Nuland 10. Washington Post - Sean McBride
Obama's cooperation with Putin has driven the neocons completely crazy -- it has been an obstacle to them getting on their war with Iran and torpedoing negotiations with the Palestinians. - Sean McBride
I'm not sure where Kerry stands on these issues -- one detects ambivalence. I didn't see the Josh Landis segment. - Sean McBride
One should be worried about a possible anti-Obama coup by the neocons within his own administration. - Sean McBride
Flushing the neocons completely out of the American political system should be a top priority -- they are definitely not going to abandon power on their own, no matter how many catastrophes they create. De-neoconizing American politics would be somewhat equivalent to de-Nazifying German politics. They are beyond the pale. - Sean McBride
Regarding Hillary Clinton being "neocon-lite": she threatened to "totally obliterate" Iran and compared Putin to Adolf Hitler -- nothing "lite" about that. - Sean McBride
Once again, the neocons are trying to set the world on fire -- this time by provoking a war between the United States and Russia. They are incredibly irresponsible and dangerous. - Sean McBride
[sort; American political leaders and pundits by number of anti-Russia statements for the first quarter of 2014] Notice how many of them were ringleaders of the Iraq War, have been ringleaders of the campaign to go to war against Iran, and who are perpetually worked up about Israel. - Sean McBride
The neocons are hoping that John Kerry will be so distracted by the crisis they have manufactured in Ukraine that he will be unable to focus on pressuring Netanyahu to achieve a peace agreement with the Palestinians. If the world goes up in flames, so be it. - Sean McBride
I read that article and thought it interesting. It comported with my impression of Obama as surrounded by interests far more radical than he likes. I thought the idea of him finding common cause with Putin, as fellow pragmatists made sense. Unfortunately for Obama, it looks like the neocon wing around him has him practically encircled. - Danaa
Obama, however, still holds considerable power in this game: he can choose to drag his feet under heavy neocon pressure from within his own administration. He chose to back off from bombing Syria. He has refused to attack Iran. - Sean McBride
I was wondering why that steven harper flew to Kiev, why his foreign minister was there, now i it as more evidence what a tool he is, this fits in the neo constrategy! - daveeza
Sean McBride
Just quickly browsed the most recent 100 Mondoweiss comments -- -- not a single mention of Ukraine.
But there has been some discussion of Ukraine on Mondoweiss in the past: - Sean McBride
They are staying away from Ukraine for a reason. Like many other left-leaning blogs. It's between a rock and a hard place for members of the left. If well informed they know exactly what happened in the Ukraine - a Western-supported regime change operation. If realistic, they know russia had no choice but to move in Crimea. But if they mention that much, they will be accused of being... more... - Danaa
Exactly. - Sean McBride
Case in point - Greenwald's new perch The Intercept. Expect little if anything on the deep involvement of the US in regime-change operations, be it Syria, Ukraine or Venezuela. Probably because the deep pocket funders of alternative media are, on one level, in line with the deep state. People like Soros and Omidyar, who are, OTOH against the neo-liberal takeover master plan, and for... more... - Danaa
Many skeptical minds will be watching The Intercept's editorial slant with close attention. In the meantime, the truth about what is really going on in Ukraine is slipping out in many alternative media outlets. I use [Prismatic; Ukraine] to scan the news that is being censored in the mainstream media. - Sean McBride
One thing is for certain: most Americans have no appetite for getting involved in a big to-do with Russia over Ukraine. If Obama and Kerry try to go down that path, they will be politically shredded. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Classic antisemitic conspiracy theorizing and crackpottery
I challenge anyone to make any sense of this confused stew. Go ahead -- the floor is yours. Listing Jewish names in an excited jumble is not a meaningful argument about anything -- it's just an embarrassing exhibition of you know what. - Sean McBride
The Goosers are not going to be able to compete against Mondoweiss with this level of writing and "analysis." - Sean McBride
The Ratners are guilty of being very successful in American society -- of working hard, going to good schools, being ambitious, etc. Sinister stuff. Also as American as apple pie. - Sean McBride
Is that the same Ratner that oversaw TARP for GM ? - Eric Logan
That was Steven Rattner? - Sean McBride
Yes, Stephen. I think that's right. I have a book at home that he wrote. - Eric Logan
With that name, he has to be part of the grand conspiracy. :) - Sean McBride
Actually you where right it is Steven. The Myth of Industrial Rebound. - Eric Logan
Good article: "But we need to get real about the so-called renaissance, which has in reality been a trickle of jobs, often dependent on huge public subsidies. Most important, in order to compete with China and other low-wage countries, these new jobs offer less in health care, pension and benefits than industrial workers historically received." - Sean McBride
With those two t's in his name he must be extra evil. :) Also, they are occult references to the Torah and Talmud. Spooky. - Sean McBride
Different spelling of the last name Steven Rattner has two t's. He is definitely a smart guy. - Eric Logan
I never read about that one in my occult manual ;) - Eric Logan
I don't think the Goose people are setting out to "compete" with MW. No one is competing with MW< but many feed off it, which is perfectly legitimate. Besides, all that "jew counting" got you to learn something about Steven Rattner, related or not to the other Ratners. As for counting - isn't that just another way of making lists, much as you do? - Danaa
I am half of a mind to count all the recent gawd-awful commentators on all our TV channels, and in the opinion pieces of various "papers of record", to check out how many are jewish, and where they fall on the question of Ukraine. If you were to do that Sean, you may find an amazing correlation - most of the best comments and opinions we have been hearing these past few weeks, from the... more... - Danaa
BTW, I can use some help with this list Sean if you have any good names to contribute. If the list leads to where I suspect it might, would assembling such a list be "anti-semitic"? after all, we can all see that the US has been taken over by gavel-to-gavel propaganda, just like before Iraq. With the worst violators being PBS and NPR - great "liberal" outlets that they are. - Danaa
And while we are at it, note the studied (and no doubt deliberate) silence of MW about Ukraine. However one wishes to interpret that (controversial! just like Syria!), one surely can't deny the relevance to the ME. After all, Russia was a big mover and shaker in negotiations with Iran and stopping an attack on Syria. And Phil personally has written about Snowden, more than once, who is surely at least as relevant as Ukraine. Just saying. - Danaa
Anyways, I still maintain that what "anti-semitism" there is it is minutia as compared with other problems the world faces. And if the over-reach by the neocons causes a little spill-over into distaste or at least suspicion of an entire group of hypocritical commentators who serve the elites and/or arte part of it, the elite that wants to make slaves of us all (many jews included), that should be neither surprising nor a reason for more opprobrium than any other collateral damage. - Danaa
Danaa -- the Ukraine situation is murky but I've noticed that the usual neocon crew seems to be in the forefront of trying to exploit it. One even wonders if they played a role in covertly instigating a coup in the Ukraine. But what's their long-term strategic game in that neck of the woods? If you've figured it out, please share. - Sean McBride
Perhaps MW hasn't covered current Ukraine developments because they are difficult to decipher. Nearly impossible for me -- and I've been following them here: [Prismatic; Ukraine]. - Sean McBride
A list (any clear signals in the noise?): - Sean McBride
# Ukraine: news sources 1. ABC News 2. Al Jazeera America 3. Algemeiner 4. Alternet 5. American Conservative 6. American Thinker 7. 8. BBC News 9. BlackListedNews 10. Bloomberg News 11. Business Insider 12. CBS News 13. CNN 14. Christian Science Monitor 15. Commentary 16. Common Dreams 17. Consortiumnews 18. Counterpunch 19. Daily Kos 20. Democracy Now 21. Dissident Voice... more... - Sean McBride
The clearest signal in the noise: [Google; ukraine neoconservatives]. - Sean McBride
Add a glowing exception to my list - Stephen Cohen has been an indefatuguable and excellent commentator on the Ukraine situation. He was on DN a couple of times and on MSM may be once that I've seen. If we had more of him, the situation would not be so murky. - Danaa
I heard Stephen Cohen on NPR regarding Ukraine -- he made good sense to me. - Sean McBride
Sources on your list Sean that are absolutely untrustworthy on either Ukraine or Syria - highly prejudiced and one-sided view: Al Jazeera, BBC news, CNN, Commentary, Business insider, Fox news, CBS news, MSNBC, PBS, NPR, Daily beast, Guardian, Timesofisrael, haaretz, Wall Street journal, Washington Post, new York times, weekly standard, Ynet news. If you get any of your news from these... more... - Danaa
I don't find the situation murky at all about Ukraine - it's crystal clear to me as is Syria. When I have a bit of time, I'll share in a separate post some of the sources and articles I found especially enlightening as well as truthful enough. I am not saying Ukraine is not complicated - it always was. But there is method to the madness of the coup engineered by Nuland et al with the... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I look at the world very differently than most people here -- I try to see how how all the pieces in political dialogue and debate fit together -- including all the pieces that are crudely propagandistic and deceitful. That is useful information for people who are capable of sorting it out. Trust me -- I am not fooled be neocon media outlets -- but I find it interesting to analyze and understand their thought processes and rhetoric. - Sean McBride
I don't need to pay much attention to publications I agree with -- I am already on that mental track and am usually a few steps ahead of them. - Sean McBride
Your analysis of Ukrainian developments -- I'm 90% there -- and I've been there since the crisis broke. What has baffled me: how neocons could be stupid enough to do this after their recent egregious failures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Georgia and elsewhere. But apparently they are that irremediably stupid. - Sean McBride
Lots of murk and confusion on this proposition (see the comments): [link; Stephen Cohen accuses Obama Administration of Coup Attempt in Ukraine] - Sean McBride
Why would Obama sign off on a hare-brained neocon scheme in Ukraine? - Sean McBride
Louis Proyect discusses Mondoweiss: He checks MW everyday and it's one of his favorite blogs He is often very complimentary: &
He had a really insightful viewpoint about Curb Your Enthusiasm, discussed by MW: He comments on MW as lproyect He also posted essays found on MW severely criticizing Assad's government, particularly regarding its attacks on the Yarmouk camp or on insurgents in it. - W.Jones
Then in April he criticized MW for taking a neutral position on the Syrian civil war. He felt that some leftists like MW were moving to the right on Syria by failing to support the opposition in the war. He said that they were supportive of peaceful demonstrators but recoiled when they took up arms and then were strongly repulsed when Jihadis joined in: - W.Jones
This January he wrote "MW as a Baathist Outlet", criticising MW for its comments section where a number of commentors voiced opposition to the insurgency overall for its fundamentalist side. Louis considered those comments to be Islamophobic. - W.Jones
Next, he and Jonathan Cook conflicted intensely about Cook's position on Syria. It began when Cook cast aspersions on the claims that Syria used Chemical weapons: Louis countered with "In response to Jonathan Cook", where he saw Syrians against Assad's regime as similar to Gazans pummeled by the Israeli... more... - W.Jones
Then in February, Louis wrote "Jew-baiting continues at Moon of Alabama", where he suspects that Annie gives "anti-imperialism" more importance than its issues with anti-semitism. He quoted someone who said that Annie has performed Jew-baiting. - W.Jones
What should one make of this? Would you agree with Louis' writings? He is an intelligent writer who has alot of insights and has been dedicated to Marxism and anti-imperialism for a very long time. - W.Jones
I don't find myself in agreement with much of Louis's analysis. - Sean McBride
I think this louis guy's analysis tracks with some of the worst anti-Syria propaganda points I've seen expressed on MW. His arguments comparing Yarmouk to gaza are nonsensical and his resistance to accepting that the Chemical Weapons attack was perpetrated by forces associated with the so-called "rebels" belies his agenda, I've no idea who or what Louis is, but brilliant he isn't. I... more... - Danaa
By now, no one who knows anything believes that Assad had anything to do with the Ghoutta attack, and that includes not just Seymour hersh, but MIT rocket experts and internal CIA analysts. Goutta was a False Flag that failed to deliver the intended bombing attack. The saudis were in all likelihood participants in this event, as were the Israelis (more on the sidelines, so as to... more... - Danaa
BTW, Sean, you give louis too much credibility by calling his little hit piece, full of name-calling, and ghost "anti-semites" , "analysis". - Danaa
But I am glad you don't agree with him. That would be kind of like agreeing with "Fox News" or "Sarah Palin". It assigns them adulthood where I see only mud fights. - Danaa
W. Jones, any particular reason you bring up this proyecy character? is he somebody we should know about or pay attention to? (as I said, i saw belligerence, not "intelligent" in his pieces. especially his nasty little attacks on annie, mondoweiss and moonofAlabama. Probably because he lost the argument, assuming he ever had one to offer. To me he sounds like a typical ziobot, and was... more... - Danaa
He is an important Marxist writer. I am trying to understand his thinking. - W.Jones
W. Jones, my suggestion would be to find others who are important marxists thinkers. There are several significant European ones, who are not tainted by zionism. In fact, once you realize someone is an all out shill for zionism, chances are their thinking on other matters will be severely compromised. That's because zionism makes one stupid - no way around it. Those quips about "jew... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I agree with every detail in your above comments. I thought early on that the chemical attacks were a false flag op. The clamor to go to war against Syria was yet another neocon op, part of the Clean Break strategy. In no way am I defending the current Syrian regime -- I just think we should keep our noses out of that situation -- the players, objectives, agendas, values, etc.... more... - Sean McBride
My use of the word "analysis" -- dry ironic understatement. I decided not to get into an argument with W.Jones about this issue at this moment. But here we are now. :) - Sean McBride
# a few neocon targets of attack (elements of a single grand strategy) 1. Afghanistan 2. Egypt 3. Iran 4. Iraq 5. Libya 6. Syria 7. Ukraine - Sean McBride
Louis Proyect discusses Mondoweiss (via
Remember him and think little of his opinions. If he's intelligence it totally escapes me.....he's very confused in all his ideologies and should stick to ranting on the World Wide Socialist Net. He doesn't know the difference between Palestine and Syria?--- he doesn't understand the difference in an 'internal conflict or civil war' and a' resistance to occupation' conflict? His obsessive illogic makes my eyes glaze over. - American
American, I was directed to this guy's "writings" (more like "scribblings" IMO) by W Jones on Sean's feed. See my responses to him there. Obviously, I share your opinion and then some. His "exchange" with Jonathan Cook reads like a typical ziobot exchange with a thinking person (who Cook is). My take is to beware of Jewish so-called "Marxists". Those were the ones BTW (The English ones)... more... - Danaa
I guess what I wanted to say is that what many of the jewish marxists offer is weak medicine. Like this Lproyect individual. His comments on MW on the Syria matter were an icky goulash of distasteful chunks of spoiled incoherent bits. - Danaa
@Danaa.....that he was Jewish must have gone right over my head -- maybe because of his obsession with Syria and the Syrian rebels.....and his rant was, as you say so, 'chunky' that it made my head explode so I just reacted to not being able to make sense of his pseudo-intellectual manifesto. People that latch onto some scio/politco movement and try to insert it into everything else drive me crazy. - American
Does this not sound like the kindergarten BS that is typical of most office work spaces nowadays?
Peter Maass has written about war, media and national security for The New York Times Magazine, The New Yorker and The Washington Post. Read More @maassp SecureDrop - pepsi
SecureDrop. Trust us, whistleblowers. - pepsi
strange sidenote: Dear Abby (Pauline Esther Friedman) & Ann Landers ( Esther Pauline Friedman) were identical twins. with Rusky immigrant parents. - Chu_
"Pauline Esther & Esther Pauline." huh. - MRW_8
I call bullsht on this Peter Maass fuckr: JUNE 2 2003 5:05 PM Salam Pax Is Real How do I know Baghdad's famous blogger exists? He worked for me. By Peter Maass - pepsi
"His lively and acerbic blog was far better than the stuff pumped out by the army of foreign correspondents in the country. It became so popular that servers hosting it were overwhelmed. The vitality and fearlessness of Salam Pax's writing, as well as the mystery of who he was— Iraqi? CIA? Mukhabarat? Jayson Blair?—led to stories by CNN, The New Yorker, and the Village Voice, among... more... - pepsi
"Who is Salam Pax? By his own account, a gay architectural engineer in his late 20s with steady work but an unsteady paycheck. A speaker of Arabic, English and German who has spent half his life outside Iraq and is conflicted about his Muslim roots, more interested in the Tao Te Ching than the Koran. A fan of Bjork and Coldplay and William Burroughs; not a fan of Saddam Hussein or George W. Bush" - pepsi
** "Slate's Boutin thinks that Salam Pax is pretty much who he says he is. Boutin corresponded with Pax via e-mail and traced an originating address as far as Terranet, a service provider based in Lebanon. Moreover, Boutin on his own Web site has cited "senior network engineers" who having examined Pax's e-mail headers believe they are from Iraq. (The host of Pax's Web log is in Santa Clara, Calif.)" - pepsi
lol "But Judith Kipper, a Persian Gulf expert with the Council on Foreign Relations, is not so sure. She has read Salam Pax's writing, finds it authentic, and thinks he is running considerable risk. "This is very gutsy," she says, "because the security forces may be busy at the moment, but they do look at these things and word is getting around. He may just feel that time is on his side and he can avoid detection."" - pepsi
i dunno, i might be wrong? - pepsi
"In his Newsnight report broadcast in October 2005, he interviewed Iraqi Member of Parliament Adnan al- Janabi, a Sunni moderate who served as vice-chair of the constitutional committee, about the proposed Iraqi constitution and revealed that al-Janabi was his father." - pepsi
Yes it does. - American
guess which infamous iraqi informant, nicknamed after a baseball pitch, shares the same last name as the 'world's most famous blogger' described above, and his iraq constitution shaping father? Not sure if they're related, maybe just same big tribe. but i remember a top israeli spy in lebanon who got arrested, ended up being the cousin of one of the 911 hijackers. Jarrah was the last name. - pepsi
different connection: "It has now emerged that Curveball is the brother of a top aide of Ahmad Chalabi, the pro-western Iraqi former exile with links to the Pentagon. According to the Los Angeles Times, it was UN inspectors who came up with the idea that Saddam might have developed mobile factories to try to evade weapons inspections. They asked Mr Chalabi, a bitter enemy of Saddam, to find evidence to support the theory." - pepsi
Well, 5 hours later and I can show that Salam Pax's father was and still is just about the top oil guy in Iraq since the mid-60s, and he was iraqs representitive in dealing with the imf and world bank for a time. Also, his brother, salam pax's uncle, was head of Saddam's presidential office, maybe like his Rahm Emanuel or at least Valerie Jarrett, lol. One thing to remember is that... more... - pepsi
Check out the resume of the father of Iraq's Glenn Greenwald, the iconic gay political blogger who was palling around with Greenwald's new hire, Peter Maass: - pepsi
Just as Salam Pax was laughably described as a regular iraqi, recall that the book description of Greenwald's first soros-funded book began: "Glenn Greenwald was not a political man. Not liberal, not conservative. Politicians were all the same and it didn’t matter which party was in power." ... Greenwald was obsessed with politics since he was three, according to his mother, and groomed by his grandfather ever since. - pepsi
I can't help but think those 5 hours i just spent were kind of wasted, but it made me think that this whole Clean Break and Beyond serial conquerring of other countries is probably related to the mergers and acquisitions hostile takeover stuff in the corporate world. Probably a lot of the same guys who took over and asset stripped companies in the 80s were probably leading the charge in asset stripping Russia in the early 90s, then Iraq, Afghanistan, Lbya, etc etc. European Union too i suppose. - pepsi
pesi, I think you areon to something, though it may not be obvious. For quite a while I believed that there is another layer to what we see as our reality. It's like there's an invisible hand that is engineering alternative narratives - in different areas and seemingly disconnected, but sharing something like a "theme". Salam pax is a perfect example - nothing like a gay Arab blogger to... more... - Danaa
Unfortunately, I kind of doubt the "invisible hand' is the tribal one, though that entity plays a role, for sure. It's just not as simple as a leadership role, that some would attribute to it. If only it were that simple. In my world view (cf. the metaverse, cf. the matrix), the "tribe" is one of several dominant themes, this one being a wedge. - Danaa
Note the interesting theme - "the brave gay Arab blogger". The purpose? sow confusion in the liberal ranks. In Iraq the "everyman" who isn't. In Syria the "woman who wasn't". In Russia, the theme morphed into Pussy Riot, "the singers who are whatever we want them to be". Each and every time the theme was unleashed, trouble followed - usually lots of it. - Danaa
Finally, your work was not in vain - I saw it and took note, for one. Some new facts I didn't know before. Your insight about Clean break and beyond is probably more insightful than you realize, just not in the obvious way. If you like classical music or jazz, think of themes and variations, sometimes in a different key, sometimes alternative instruments, sometimes a branching out and back in. - Danaa
Sorry to be confusing. Can't be helped. - Danaa
To be even more confusing, add now Glenn greenwald, also gay, also a famous blogger, living in Brazil, this time. However, if glenn is a variation, it's a more mature one, more sophisticated than the previous variants. I guess, we should watch for interesting developments in Latin America. may be that whole "First Look" is just a diversion? - Danaa
Danaa, thanks for the validation and additional insights. The scariest thing is they will only get more and more sophisticated. Like keeping Omidyar's fingerprints off the Ukraine revolutionary activity, or not recycling all these washington post and new york times assets in their next "independent" ventures. Imagine intelligence operatives, sheep-dipped as journalists, who only get... more... - pepsi
re: "Unfortunately, I kind of doubt the "invisible hand' is the tribal one, though that entity plays a role, for sure. It's just not as simple as a leadership role, that some would attribute to it. If only it were that simple. In my world view (cf. the metaverse, cf. the matrix), the "tribe" is one of several dominant themes, this one being a wedge. - Danaa" - - - ---- England was far... more... - ChasMark
Many definitions of propaganda link the concept to early Christian/Catholic practices of teaching religion. Danaa operates on a much deeper, more scientific or technological level than I do; I hypothesize that the linkage between British & Jewish, and now USAian, propaganda/psy ops practice, or underlying ideation can be found in the shared mythos of those three; namely, tales from Hebrew scripture. Consider the preparation for the conquest of Jericho. - ChasMark
and then there's the ancient connection between spying/propaganda/intelligence and organized crime. James Jesus Angleton learned about the spy trade in post ww2 Italy, learning from the italian and jewish mafia there. Then he became the longtime 100% failure as head of counter-espionage, while serving israel much better throughout that time. Hence the multiple plaques and memorials to him in israel. - pepsi
the jewish community is like an ancient intelligence agency/mafia family. It shows major traits of each, and i suspect the bag of tricks goes back a thousand years or two. - pepsi
expect more gossipy shit like this nsa dear abby story. Greenwald: "We at The Intercept are very excited to announce our new editor-in-chief, John Cook, who joins us after after serving as editor-in-chief of Gawker. John shares our commitment to fearless, adversarial, and independent journalism, and has all sorts of vibrant and creative ideas for how to ensure that our journalism is reaching the widest possible audience." - pepsi
gawker - today's gossip is tomorrow's news - pepsi
I do not understand why my comment was sent down the monitor hole.
Too bad I missed it. What was your comment? - Todd
where, mondo? Or here? - pepsi
I made a reply to Donald about the basic futility of the endless discussion on anti Semitism. Not exact but it went something like this------>That there can never be a resolution on anti Semitism because there cant be a honest presentation of the historical facts and real history of anti Semitism. One side will never admit to the fact Jewish -Gentile/Christian dislike and distrust of... more... - American
I don't think this was anti semitic...its a lot more historically factual and accurate than the myths of irrational hatred and so forth. When they can admit to the reality and when 'others' quit being afraid to insist on a factual telling of history anti semitism wont be a subject----but imo there are many who don't want anti Semitism ever laid to rest. - American
Your comment is fine. Good grief, it's extremely tame compared to the wild and often unexamined accusations coming from the other direction. I wouldn't worry about being viewed as an anti-semite. - Todd
I am not worried just pissed off at it being junked on MW. It accurate, its honest but that just goes to prove what I said ---an honest examination of anti Semitism is not possible. - American
great comment American. The victimology is a crutch, a sword, a wall, a get out of jail free card, a purpose, an excuse, and a dildo. - pepsi
I read this one yesterday to Donald. - Chu_
Why is anti-semitism used as a smear rather than anti-Jewish? Anti-semitism doesn't really mean anything, where anti-Jewish is very specific. - Todd
Todd, why do a few black guys cry racism after getting busted for holding up a liquer store? It's to stifle any further discussion, play the guilt card, and avoid all considerations of responsibility. Even goldman sachs played the anti-semitism card during the crash in 07. - pepsi
I'd also venture to guess that the overwhelming majority of Jews who use that word casually do indeed have a genetics-based racism against non-jews. If most non-Jews weren't anti-semitic, then that would destroy the notion of goy moral inferiority. 'My people were freedom riders, and opposed the vietnam war, bla bla bla.' And as Danaa told us, there really is a general belief that the... more... - pepsi
So why not be specific and say anti-Jewish instead of ant-semitic? - Todd
Todd, it's kind of misnomer that began in Germany. I think germans were calling themselves Arians and then the others in Prussia at the time were called 'semites'. The name was used to say they were like foreigners in a sense. - Chu_
That's interesting, Chu. - Todd
chu, that didn't begin in germany, it began in spain. - JustTheFactsPlease
"The accusation of “anti-Semitism” has a dual-use. The first is to suggest very subtly that Russian Jews have some blood right to invade and occupy Semite-land. No Ashkenazi Jew will ever say that he is a Semite, if you ask him or her. That would be a very offensive idea. But you’re an “anti-Semite” if you criticize Jews. So the second use is to make you shut up. A total deception." - JustTheFactsPlease
i read it somewhere looking into other things. Ashkenaz came from the Scythian region. Khazaria. It's so difficult for them to accept their origin because of the Israeli origin fabrication. Schlomo Sands makes the case pretty clearly - Chu_
another reason jews like to use "anti semitism" to refer to to those who oppose jewish aggression is that the word "jew" has become odious in the public mind, its use by the non-jew is interpreted by the jew as an accusation of guilt. - JustTheFactsPlease
American, I think I figured out the "Y". later I'll try to explain, ran out of time. - Danaa
Danaa...thanks, I would like to know. actual comment on MW was even less blunt and more explanatory than as I reproduced here.... so I am curious the exact offense they took.. - American
"The Jews use the term for two good reasons: First, it suggests that they are in fact Semitic, which serves to justify their invasion and occupation of Palestine, something that would be otherwise inexplicable for a non-Semite. The obvious question would be: Why do you insist on living there, where you have no roots? The other reason is that "anti-Semitism" has a clinical, sinister... more... - JustTheFactsPlease
"As we know, there is no one in the US government who will blame Israel for anything it does, because that would be "anti-Semitic." But, who are the Semites? Short answer: the ARABS. Who are the anti-Semites? Short answer: the Jews." - JustTheFactsPlease
"One of the most deceptive phrases the Jews have is “anti-Semitism.” But it’s very easily sidestepped. On a special radio show in LA hosted by Susan Estrich she entitled “Anti-Semitism,” I called in and confronted her and her guest, Alan Dershowitz, the Harvard law professor and expert on “anti-Semitism.” “Does either of you have one drop of Semitic blood in your body?” Dershowitz... more... - JustTheFactsPlease
"But that’s how to deal with someone calling you an “anti-Semite.” If I can make Alan Dershowitz shut up with one little question, you can see how powerful it is. The accusation of “anti-Semitism” has a dual-use. The first is to suggest very subtly that Russian Jews have some blood right to invade and occupy Semite-land. No Ashkenazi Jew will ever say that he is a Semite, if you ask him... more... - JustTheFactsPlease
"It has been a handy and effective weapon which has destroyed countless careers and is responsible for the totally illegitimate Zionist regime. Zionists have cleverly suggested for a hundred years, by smearing their critics as "anti-Semites," that the Zionists are the legitimate conquerors of Palestine. Zionists have never actually SAID they were Semitic - just that their enemies are... more... - JustTheFactsPlease
"I believe this is the central issue regarding The Jewish Question. When awareness of this matter becomes more widespread, and it will now, the Zionist state will lose support even from the deluded Christians, who need Semitic-type Jews running "Israel" for the fulfillment of their bloody dreams. The Zionists will be exposed as pseudo-religious gangsters." - JustTheFactsPlease
"So, I urge you to spread this very helpful suggestion to create awareness of the criminal psychopathic abuse of the very legitimate term, "anti-Semitism," by racist fanatics whose main reason for living is to exterminate all Semites. Such a truth campaign would undermine and eventually destroy the Jewish lie of "the right of return." What right? How can you return to a place you and your ancestors never were?" - JustTheFactsPlease
^quoted blocks from Veterans Today - JustTheFactsPlease
''as Danaa told us, there really is a general belief that the goyim are jealous of the genetic chosenness of the lumpy ones. Jealousy = anti, and chosen = genetic...pepsi)......I dont understand how they view the goyim as jealous of the Jews given the many Jewish falls/loses in history they claim at the hands of the more powerful goyim. Doesn't really make sense with their victimhood... more... - American
American, hatred is a jewish family value. Any ole excuse will due. And if you're dumb enough to believe that god chose you to be his magical demigod condescending lumpy lights unto goyim, then what won't you believe about anything and everything? The whole thing relies on changing core talking points on a dime. The key to its success is letting hate run wild and disregarding the importance about consistency in anything else. Democracy? Saudi partnership? Whatever. - pepsi
All this timeless talk about irrational frothing jew hatred is just projection. The narrative they invented of Hitler being obsessed only with killing all jews from day one is just projection, straight out of the book of Saul in which god told saul to kill every single Amalek, 100 percent holocaust, or "burnt offering" sacrafice of every single Amalek. When Saul spared the king and a... more... - pepsi
nobody does psychological projection of hate like the jews. As mrw's jewish mentor said, 'jews are a self-fulfilling prophecy'. - pepsi
How many mass orgies of bloodshed have been led by jews over the past 100 years? We're talking upward of 100 million burnt offerings. - pepsi
What remorse has the jewish community shown for the million+ dead in iraq in that bogus ritual sacrafice? Zero, which is why they've been fanatically pushing to bomb iran's nuclear power plants ever since. What's a few million more dead amaleks when iran might theoretically get a bomb some day and might theoretically want to holocaust jews like israel right now wants to holocaust all the semites? - pepsi
American - here is what you said that got the comment disappeared: "One side will never admit to the fact Jewish -Gentile/Christian dislike and distrust of the other was always a two way street and the other side cowed by the holocaust wont insist that they do. The facts of history since ancient times say that in every conflict, clash and competition, the more numerous and powerful... more... - Danaa
That being said, had I made a similar comment (perhaps with a few more caveats strategically inserted, as is my want) they might have posted it - after waiting 2 days to make sure it would not be overly noticed, and god forbid, generate some back and forth. Your style, American, tends to be direct, which is good, except when you stray too close to the invisible lines. A little obscurity might help (yes, i realize that takes so much more work - and verbiage). - Danaa
As annoying as it is to have to take it into account, the fact is that there is a real battle going on within the jewish community, with people like Phil Weiss on one side (the assimilationists!) and the Goldbergs/Rosenbergs on the other side. Yes these are all liberals, but different shades of israel supporters. Some more, some less, but always in an American context nonetheless. Note... more... - Danaa
I do realize that people on this blog may find all this talk of the great intra-tribal battles tiresome. But be it as it may, everyone had some association with MW at some point or another, good or bad. So my "little" ruminations and psychologizings may not be totally out of place, or devoid of interest, even if they are not so original. I just hope pepsi and others will not interpret... more... - Danaa
Danaa...yep, I hit all the no-no's you described all right. But I wanna hit all the no-no's......if the no-no's aren't hit nothing changes. It stays the same old hamster wheel. I thought they had loosened up a bit but I guess not. Maybe I can wear them down, exhaust them, keep dripping comments on their forehead like Chinese water torture,...I will have to redouble my efforts!.. ..Defeat is not an Option! .....LOL - American
America, alas, you may need to use a little pilpul here and there. I know you were trying just that, but there's room for more? - Danaa
Sometimes I have to treat a serious subject as comical and this one is crazy enough to be comical ---when the problems could be ended with a dose of truth for the Jews, a dose of international law for I/P and a padded cell for the Zionist. - American
you may need to use a little pilpul''....Danna) ..Yes I know I could use more pilpul. But I don't want to be a 'hasa" (Cuban for pig that cant fly straight) I can, if forced to, write a whole paper that doesn't say what its really saying......but I hate doing it that way. - American
You want simplicity? that's so goy of you - don't you know things are "complicated"? - Danaa
Yes simplicity. I use to do the pilpul thing years ago trying to sway the zios and misguided more diplomatically ----BUT---all I got back was more pilpul! So I gave it up and went for the straightforward approach. - American
I just hope pepsi and others will not interpret any of what i say as "offering excuses" for the tribe, as that was not my intent''..Danaa)....If they do they will be sure to let you know..LOL Contrary to how McMoron describes us and how it may look in all the ridicule and criticism we heap on the tribe/tribal-ness---no one 'hates Jews' as in wishing or intending them harm. So you're... more... - American
danaa, sure enough, your comment has me in a tizzy. You describe three raging jewish supremacist tribal warriors as liberal, and tell american he should cater to one of them by jewishly complicating something really fucking simple. It's not about phil and his delicate nipples, or mj and his raging against phil. Nobody gives a fuck about the weiss/chosenberg/goldberg petty bickering up... more... - pepsi
Bigoted, manipulative, entitled red lines that have Huge consequences should not be coddled in any way. Bigots like that go to the end of the line for my sympathies. It's not antipathy, it's just a very limited empathy. Show remorse, show humility, and treat Everybody with respect. Fcking supremacist pricks. - pepsi
This is why young jews today can't run away fast enough. It's not the semitism or the Kazaarism or the Slavakianism, it's the fucking supremacism. About half of today's young american jews are revolted by this blind casual extremely destructive supremacy. - pepsi
Blam!....holy moley pepsi. I am totally with you on the supremist thing. But I think Danna was saying 'use pilpul' want your comment to get past the monitors---not that they 'deserve to be catered to with pilpul'. Have no fear however I will never use pilpul it only breeds more pilpul in them. - American
yeah i don't want to scare her away. - pepsi
if liberal means casually borderline or full blown sociopathic towards 99% of the planet, count me out for life and the next ones as well. - pepsi
if 3 thousand christians died in a double skyscraper collapse, would a weiss or an mj or a dave goldberg shed a tear? Or would they ask if this was good for the jews? - pepsi
Netanyahu said it was good for most I was glued to the news and happened to be watching when he said it...a slip of the lip if there ever was one. I don't know about Phil but mj doesn't like us gentiles so he might think it was deserved. mj also thinks the new Pope is a war criminal and should be tried ---he actually tweeted that out to the world. I was surprised that no one of his tweet followers condemned him for that...but I guess I shouldn't have been. - American
danaa i apologize if i misread you. We're both imperfectly trying to unwrap the same rocket surgery of a mystery. And the consequences in the real world. - pepsi
That's what I like about Good for Goose pepsi! got plenty of passion and conviction but also big enough to say when you might have misjudged a comment. Long Live the Goose. - American
spring is coming. In the winter weather department i'm very ungoosy in this fifth month of winter. 5th month of winter + 5th column = bad combo. - pepsi
No problem pepsi. having thin skin was never one of my problems. Also, thanks American for explaining. Indeed, far from making a value judgement, I was just addressing the post question, namely American's comment. As for "liberal", I meant that in the usual domestic sense, ie, LGBT, women's rights, immigration - the usual stew. personally, I feel that what there was of true liberal politics in the country has been hollowed out. FYI, I am kind of with Chris Hedges on that. - Danaa
One example where "liberal" is a joke, is when it comes to things like "humanitarian intervention", a contradiction, if there ever was one. Yet, many self-styled liberals are on that bandwagon, alas. Which is one of the issues that throws a wedge straight through the heart of left politics in the US. The so-called neocon right is at least more consistent - for them (not all)... more... - Danaa
Madeleine Albright is now a major proselytizer for R2P -- Responsibility to Protect. I hope I don't have to explain the irony. ~40 min. - ChasMark
That's a triple skyscraper collapse, pepsi - JustTheFactsPlease
Is that an IDF T-shirt: "Two planes, three towers" - ChasMark
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