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Danaa › Comments

Sean McBride
Danaa -- why I like Twitter
It turns up valuable content in a swift and efficient way (in my opinion): https://friendfeed.com/search... - Sean McBride
Skipping over the lily pads or mountain peaks -- for fast brains. - Sean McBride
If you want to get into the in-depth exposition, follow the links. - Sean McBride
As I quickly browse the results of that Friendfeed search above, I see a flood of useful data. - Sean McBride
But you are interested in data and I want to channel only a few bits each day since my interest is in opinions and lengthy expository essays. That's what I do most - reading the essays. Which is why I was so happy that American unearthed that old 2008 essay by Weiss on Carter. That was a gem. Trouble is, when you forget what a good essay you read 5 years ago that you failed to save, Twitter is no help and google search takes you to too many blind alleys. - Danaa
Example: I am searching for an article that appeared on NYT (I think, unless it was WaPo) which was about how quickly people come to feel entitled after say, winning a lottery. the article recounted results of a study but I read the article at a time when I was busy with other things and don't have enough key words to conjure it up. I know it was sometime this year but that's about it. Now how do I go about searching for something when all I remember is something vague like this? - Danaa
Danaa -- Twitter provides one with quick and efficient pointers to the in-depth essays -- that is how I use it. It's a marvelous sifter. - Sean McBride
[Google; entitlement lotteries new york times] and [Google; entitlement lotteries washington post] don't work? - Sean McBride
Keep in mind that AI people are using the term "data" in an unconventional way -- they are referring to the underlying conceptual objects and structures -- the entities and relations -- that underlie *all* human communications and creations -- including mammoth texts (like, say, War and Peace, Great Expectations, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire or the complete... more... - Sean McBride
Google search didn't work. not enough search terms. - Danaa
If I was a real scholar I'd use Twitter to find the latest on the web. But for things I don't do for a lliving, time is of the essence and more than anything I hate to sift through chaffe to find a few nuggets. So, I'm content to do things haphazardly. - Danaa
Well, that is precisely the issue that services like Twitter, Zite, Prismatic, Netflix and Amazon.com and other smart recommender systems are working to address -- to automatically push the most important nuggets in any and every domain, from both a global standpoint and a personal standpoint, to the top of the queue. They work fairly well now and they are continuing to improve -- this... more... - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
"Mondoweiss has become a very stale site. Doesn't bother to update even when there is huge news. Need for a Commentary like rapid responder." — MJayRosenberg
Funny MJ. I thought he didn't like MW. - Danaa
He positively hates mw ESPECIALLY the comment section, but he's so jealous of Phil's success that he can't help but keep looking in when no one's watching. - Taxi
Well, it's the comments he didn't like. Obviously he prefers a Twitter-like medium where news can be broadcast to the world with no danger of feed-back. But MW specializes indaily commentary not in the news cycle. May be MJ can roll up his sleeves and write something that's other than a one-liner? - Danaa
MJ doesn't seem to be able to handle engagement -- discussion and debate. He's more into hit and run. - Sean McBride
That's true Taxi. It's that special brand of Jew-on-Jew-Envy that keeps the world going around. It's a funny thing that - kind of like Caribean Ragae song-and-dance envy but on some imagined lofty intellectual sphere. You can see it in Slater and in the abuse heaped on Judt when he was alive. Must appear really weird to other humans on the planet. - Danaa
If you're into preaching and lecturing, engagement -- the process of explaining and defending your ideas -- is unbearable. Engagement and dialectic is all that counts, in my book. I always want to see how arguments play out when they are tested. - Sean McBride
I rarely take it personally when challenged (or even attacked) by Jewish adversaries -- it's mild compared to what they can dish out to fellow Jews. :) Since I am rather an argumentative person myself, I am comfortable with the hard-edged argumentative strain in Jewish culture. That's how things get sorted out. - Sean McBride
But I have rarely seen MJ get involved in meaningful arguments. - Sean McBride
A titanic arguer and debater: Hostage -- there is so much to learn from his debates. - Sean McBride
If you can't effectively defend your positions, ideas and beliefs from the strongest possible challenges, you're not really in the game. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Did Wondering delete his own comments?
I didn't delete them. He's free to post here as long as he stays on a somewhat reasonable track. - Sean McBride
A nice thing about Friendfeed -- you can edit or delete your own comments whenever you like -- no time limits. You control your own material. You don't hand over control to another party. - Sean McBride
Explain your motive for this post, Sean. Give a list. - Taxi
If Wondering is as bad a person as you say he is, then let him establish a digital record here that will prove your point and which can be archived. - Sean McBride
can someone cue me in on what he siad? I am always up for entertainment.... - Danaa
Sean, you didn't explain your motive for putting this post up. - Taxi
Danaa - believe me there is zero entertainment value in 'wandering's' posts. Just the usual zio tedium. - Taxi
Weirdly, I suspected it might be you. Hand on heart I thought: this wandering fucker reminds me of that other pepsi fucker. Your writing style is basic and obvious - so are your trashy barbs. - Taxi
Wandering jew's style of writing is more sophisticated that yours - he could write paragraphs while you're intellectually lacking and confined to a line or two. And it doesn't matter if you think Sean is jewish or not, what matters is that you're a racist, misogynistic limpazloid who enjoys identity theft cuz you got none of your own and you obviously don't have a life which explains your petty obsession and jealousies of Sean. - Taxi
you make way too many assumptions. There's a screw loose somewhere. Maybe it's the diet? - pepsi
I'm sure your staple diet of shit and pepsi make you a real kosher genius. - Taxi
Taxi -- I assumed that Wondering was pepsi from the very start -- he has played this game before -- pretending to be tokyobk. I wanted to give him enough space to reveal himself -- that is why I let him keep posting. It looks like he pulled his own account when he realized that he wasn't clever enough to hide his identity. - Sean McBride
You and others have noticed that pepsi is capable of writing only few snarky sentences at a time -- he lacks the chops to do extended expository prose -- one of the reasons he resents and hates Phil Weiss -- envy. - Sean McBride
Ah yes but you mention the word 'Frankist' to dear old pepsi and his million words sure fizz out of his gob in endless hissy streams. This tells you that pepsi only has a single subject of interest. This is known as having a 'fixation', an 'obsession', or an 'infatuation'. I'd say he's infatuated with all things 'Frankist'. - Taxi
Pepsi appears to be locked in a titanic struggle with his inner Frankist demons. :) - Sean McBride
Wow Seany - you actually said something half-funny lol!!! - Taxi
Taxi
4 Israelis killed in Jerusalem synagogue attack: http://news.yahoo.com/several...
I don't care that these colonialist Russian jews died and they should really be shipped out of Palestine and buried back in Odessa. It's revolting to think of so many racist corpses buried in holy earth. - Taxi
A coordinated knife attack against the brutal, vile, racist occupiers. This is Arab Jerusalem's message to the violent ethnic-cleansing israelis: 'We are not afraid to seek you out for justice'. - Taxi
Resistance gives you balls of steel. - Taxi
Attacking unarmed civilians in their place of worship is an act of barbaric terrorism that needs to be strongly condemned, in my opinion. How is this different than the Baruch Goldstein massacre? It is not going to help the Palestinian cause in the West -- in the United States and Europe. - Sean McBride
1. "Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas condemned the attack, saying “we always condemn operations that kill civilians.”" 2. "Hamas praised the synagogue attack, saying it was a “response to continued Israeli crimes, the killing, desecrating Al Aqsa [mosque],” a reference to a recent incident at the holy site." http://online.wsj.com/article... - Sean McBride
Sean, you mistake the violence of resistance to the violence of the occupier. And YES there is a big fucking difference that you'll never understand cuz you've never been ethnically cleansed by force of gun and you've never lived under a brutal 6 decade long occupation and you appear to lack imagination and dignity to ever understand all the tools of resistance. - Taxi
At this stage of the game, only a deluded fool would believe that israel is willing to make peace through peaceful negotiations. Therefore what remains is force. This is realism, Sean. - Taxi
So you support the use of force against innocent civilians praying in their house of the worship? The entire civilized world understands such acts to be instances of barbaric terrorism -- that is why it condemned the Baruch Goldstein massacre. If Palestinians want to get into the game of playing terror against terror against Israelis, they will be utterly crushed and sent scurrying to... more... - Sean McBride
No Sean, the "entire civilized world" approves of resisting the most brutal and longest occupation in modern history! Enjoy your lonely comfy couch and your detachment from the REALITIES on the ground in Palestine. I say fight fight fight with everything you have, Palestine! If they burn down your churches and mosques, burn their synagogues down! If they kill your father with a missile, kill their father with your knife! THIS IS WAR and if you're too squeamish, Sean, then get the hell outta Reality Town! - Taxi
Taxi -- you speak as if you yourself, personally, had been ethnically cleansed by the Israelis -- an experience which has provided you with exceptional moral authority on these issues. I am unclear about this: what exactly is your ethnic, religious and national background and your relationship to Arab politics? I recall you saying that you are an American but are now living in Lebanon.... more... - Sean McBride
Taxi -- can you find any reputable voices in the United States or Europe who are expressing support for the massacre that occurred at this synagogue? One of us has a political reality problem here, I think. - Sean McBride
Sean, like I said, you do not have a strong sense of dignity, nor do you have the imagination to appreciate, nor have you ever visited the middle east, nor broken bread with Palestinians to ever understand them and show reflexive empathy and support. - Taxi
Is Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas lacking in dignity or understanding of the Palestinian situation? Are you a more authentic voice of the Palestinians than Abbas? He strongly condemned the attack, as has every government in the world that has expressed itself on this incident so far. - Sean McBride
Sean, who gives a shit about what the so-called "reputable voices in the united states and europe" are saying?! And what about the rest of the fucking world? Don't they count too - or does the universe revolve around the 'western' hemisphere?! I bet my farm if I went to ANYBODY in the USA and Europe and asked them what a human under a brutal occupation should do, they would uniformly... more... - Taxi
If the Palestinians lose what little support they now enjoy from the United States and Europe, that will be game over for them -- there will be no force out there to protect them. And they certaintly can't protect themselves. This is the political reality of the situation. - Sean McBride
Don't you worry, Sean, the usa and europe have already sold Palestinians down the river. There is so little land left and they really got nothing to lose at this stage. And rest assured, the Palestinians have the SUPPORT OF MOST OF THE WORLD. - Taxi
I got news for you, Sean, the middle east is full of Americans - I ain't an anomaly. - Taxi
Taxi -- how did you end up in the Middle East and so involved with supporting the politics of Hamas and Hezbollah? Did you have any pre-existing ethnic, religious or cultural ties to the region? Or was this an intellectual voyage of some kind? How did you arrive at your current position? - Sean McBride
Taxi -- "most of the world" is powerless to protect the Palestinians -- only the United States and Europe are in a position to prevent Israel from delivering the coup de grace to the Palestinians. Palestinians need all the support from American and European public opinion that they can muster. - Sean McBride
Sean, the Palestinians aren't stupid to be 'waiting' for usa and europe to 'save' them - they'd be crazy to. Only Abbas is waiting - and even he has kicked his waiting chair. I'm afraid to say, brace yourself for escalation into war - especially now that israel is really fucking with Jerusalem. The stakes are highest in Jerusalem. - Taxi
Taxi -- and you still think that the Palestinians can defeat Israel in a military conflict? How did matters recently go in Gaza? Israel would relish escalating this situation into all-out war -- it would provide Greater Israelists with an opportunity to complete the next stage of their grand project. - Sean McBride
Palestinians aren't the only people occupied by the zealot isrealis. When the shit hits the fan, even the CIA reckons israel will be toast. And you bloody well know it! - Taxi
Taxi -- I agree -- that is a plausible scenario -- Israel becomes toast -- but probably only after wreaking enormous damage on the world (not just Palestinians). That is one trajectory currently in play. - Sean McBride
You said it, Sean. Palestinians are NOT a threat to the world, but the zionist israelis sure as heck are. - Taxi
We agree. Where we seem to disagree is on how to handle the situation. It's like dismantling a time bomb -- a nuclear time bomb. Care and precision required. Tick tock tick tock. One false move and you may blow yourself up. - Sean McBride
I actually doubt they'll use their illegal nukes as this would iinstigate indiscriminate global violence against all jews in the four corners of the world, and insure the burial of not just israel but judaism itself. The isareli zionists, both civilian and military, are all pathological cowards full of deluded bravado. As was proven most recently in 2006 against hizbollah; and as... more... - Taxi
I would like to think that Israeli leaders are rational actors -- but all it would require is one irrational faction within the Israeli government to set the world aflame -- and Israeli culture seems to be a hotbed of biblical apocalyptic crazy in key sectors, with Jewish fundamentalists infiltrating and acquiring ever-increasing control over military and government institutions. With... more... - Sean McBride
I don't believe any israeli leader is "rational" - but their fears are bigger and deeper than their delusion. Did you know that clinically insane people in asylums are the first to run out of their burning compound? That's israel for you. Light up a big enough fire and watch them stampede out. - Taxi
Sean, resistance is fundamentally about human dignity. The more a human feels their dignity attacked and befouled, the more violent their resistance. It's called the human condition. - Taxi
I get resistance. But when you resist, you should aim to win -- not to commit suicide. Although some systems of oppression may become so evil, painful, miserable and unbearable that any form of resistance, no matter how ineffectual or self-destructive, may become inevitable. If I were a Gazan, my thoughts and energies would be consumed night and day with seeking my liberation. But I would be careful about handing Israel propaganda opportunities to exploit. - Sean McBride
Sean, note that with every attack against Gaza, their resistance rockets, tactics and strategies become more effective. Sure, as far as Gaza is concerned, there's still a giant gap between israeli and Gaza powers - but the Gazan progress must be acknowledged and I don't see why they can't soon enough create an effective deterrent the way hizbollah has. You don't need F-35's to create a... more... - Taxi
Taxi -- my mind is open to your analysis -- I am not rejecting it out of hand -- and your scenario may come to pass. I would be especially curious to read any papers by military experts on this subject that may come your way. - Sean McBride
Wondering -- I have no interest in providing a platform for antisemitism, Judeophobia or any other form of obsessive hatred for any ethnic or religious group. Most of that kind of discussion has moved to Good for the Goose https://friendfeed.com/mwff3 - Sean McBride
I will sometimes try to engage antisemites and Judeophobes in rational argument -- but the results are always the same -- there is no convincing them that "the Jews" are not the root of all that is wrong in the world. All of their attention and energy has come to be focused on that single point in the universe -- no other problems exist. - Sean McBride
On the definition of antisemitism and Judeophobia we will probably disagree -- I am tolerant of a wide range of honest intellectual disagreements with Judaism and Zionism (and other religious and political ideologies). Belief systems are always open to challenge. - Sean McBride
My bottom line is that I wish people would not treat one another too badly. They don't have to be nice -- just try not to be too evil. Give one another space to go about your business. - Sean McBride
I have simply noticed that crude direct attacks on opponents rarely lead to successful results -- usually the contrary, in fact. - Sean McBride
Way beyond the Tea Party -- Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kampf -- literally. Apparently they don't want to let the world see what they are saying. - Sean McBride
Hey wandering bot, Lebanon doesn't need any iron fucking dome when they've got iron fighters who'll kick your chickenshit ass raw before you can say tel aviv. - Taxi
Sean, why are you over-justifying/brown-nozing that rabid zionist, wandering jew? You think his despicable racism is any different to the guys at GFTG?! You think you can 'reason' with a dumb zealot bot like that? - Taxi
I like to hear all voices on all issues -- as long as they are rational and making a serious effort to engage in useful discussion. Let's give Wondering an opportunity to express his views and see what turns up. - Sean McBride
I ain't reading his shit - he barely writes more than two narcissistic lines at a time - life is too short and I've heard it all before a gazillion time - but you go right ahead old pal - enjoy your time wasted. Man, you're a sucker whore for your brand name, aren't ya?! - Taxi
Another nice thing about Friendfeed -- you can easily block any other user with a single click -- and never see any more of their posts. (Except, wait: has that feature been removed? -- not seeing it now.) - Sean McBride
Sean - wandering jew is a known hard-core racist and mysogynist (just go to his archives on mw) - yet you want to indulge him - and at the expense of lowering the standard of the debate - why? Why would you do that? Doesn't make sense. - Taxi
What makes sense is permitting people to post enough material to express and reveal themselves -- let things unfold naturally and see what happens. But Wondering seems to have deleted himself. - Sean McBride
Wandering jew is a jewish nazi type. So Sean, do you really need to know what the nazis are saying? isn't it like we already know everything they might say? - Danaa
Also Sean, there are no "honest" differences from zionists, in the sense that there is no honesty on their side. If they are members of a cult it's like debating with Hare Krishna types. What exactly is there to talk about? in particular, what is the difference between intellect and pilpul? to the average jewish so-called intellectual they are one and the same. Slater is a great example. - Danaa
And I am sorry to see you are resorting to pilpul yourself, Sean. You have not answered a single one of the analogy points I made so far. not about the KKK, not about the Algerian resistance, not about David koresh and not about the hare krishna (a point I just made). - Danaa
Danaa -- regarding Zionism as a messianic cult -- I fully agree with you -- I have been developing the same idea for several years now -- sometimes on Mondoweiss. I've even cataloged the traits of messianic cults as they apply to much of contemporary Zionism. That's why I didn't comment. We've been over this ground before, as I recall -- although it deserves much more investigation and discussion. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- regarding the Algerian resistance analogy when discussing the recent synagogue bombing -- I don't think that line of argument will work in mainstream American and European politics. But give it a try and see what happens. I view the attack as a major propaganda victory for Israel. - Sean McBride
New York Times readers -- who are usually sharply critical of Israel -- won't be giving you a warm reception. See: http://www.nytimes.com/2014... - Sean McBride
Don't forget Sean that this synagog was one for the ultra-orthodox, ie haredim.Unlike others in the US I can't stand these types and find it extremely difficult to empatize with them. One of the victims had, like 9(!) children - I think - they really multiply like rabits and IMO should be neutered after the first 4 just as we do with our pets. This attitude I display here is very common... more... - Danaa
So there, now you know - i can't stand the black hats. They are really obnoxious in manner, speech and behavior to me. Plus totally primitive of course, more so than some poor bushman in Africa or the Amazon. The black hats represent all that's really wrong with Judaism. And unfortunately in israel that stream of fanatic devotion to the god of the old testament is alive and well. Every... more... - Danaa
I could care less BTW about the so-called "readers of the NYT". If they are jewish then I know what they are - enablers of a modern version of nazism. Many liberal ones probably supported demolishing Iraq and putting to the sword a big chunk of their people. Those jews of New York who are so pro-immigration and gay marriage and climate change action are in all likelihood cold as stone... more... - Danaa
Sean, your precious usa and europe "mainstream opinion" means diddly squat in Jerusalem: this attack is a warning to all racist colonials that they are not safe ANYWHERE in Jerusalem. And I think in this respect, the tactic works. Besides, what the hell are east coast and UK jews doing living off the backs of Palestinians and our tax money in Palestine?! Fuck them! They wanna come to Palestine to live for 'free' and oppress and thieve, then they need to also be prepared to die there for their crimes. - Taxi
Danaa -- I've read quite a bit about the sharp conflict between Israeli seculars and black hats in Haaretz, Tikkun and other publications -- I get where you're coming from on this issue -- and I dislike religious fundamentalists of all stripes as much as you do. But I also believe that all religious believers should be able to express themselves unmolested -- as long as they don't try... more... - Sean McBride
Danaa -- I mentioned the New York Times Readers's Picks in this context: those comments have been strongly trending against Israel and for Palestinians until now. - Sean McBride
Sean, this 'incident' actually comes on the heals of a mosque burning by settlers 9 days ago, followed by the hanging of a Palestinian bus driver - not forgetting the aggressive judaisation of Jerusalem especially in the past 6 months. Oh and the incessant racist hate-speech and incitement by both israeli political ad religious leaders. Much abuse, murder and terror against the Palestinians has been recorded since op protective edge. - Taxi
Right, Taxi, all of those factors have intensely provoked Palestinians -- this incident hardly occurred in a vacuum. - Sean McBride
Taxi -- Americans and Europeans are the only force preventing Israel from engaging in a major new wave of ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians. If the Palestinians lose that remaining thin thread of political support, that will be it for the Palestinian movement -- they will be relegated to a chapter in history. They are not capable of defeating Israel in an all-out military... more... - Sean McBride
Yes, Sean, we've had this conversation before regarding the strengths and weaknesses of Palestinian military resistance/regional military resistance to israel and we've agreed to disagree. But I must here stress that the slow-mo ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the incremental genocide of Palestinians by israelis is all but israel's choice and has nothing to do 'American and European'... more... - Taxi
Good point -- demographics is a major strategic factor that is working against Israel. You can't wipe out millions of human beings in your neighborhood without raising a few eyebrows. <understatement> But pro-Israel activists are working night and day to set the stage for that act of genocide -- to legitimize it. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Three Americans Among Four Rabbis 'Slaughtered' in Jerusalem Synagogue - NBC News.com - http://www.nbcnews.com/storyli...
"Two Palestinians stormed a Jerusalem synagogue, opening fire and using knives and axes to attack Jews praying inside, officials said Tuesday. Four rabbis were killed — including three dual U.S.-Israeli nationals — along with an Israeli policeman, and five other people wounded. The attackers were later killed in a shootout with police. "Everybody was praying peacefully without any disruptions whatsoever and then all of a sudden the terrorists go into a place of worship and peace and turn it into a killing nightmare," Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld told BBC Radio 4." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"Israeli police told NBC News that three of the dead were dual U.S.-Israeli citizens. Britain's Foreign Office confirmed the death of a dual U.K.-Israeli national. Police said the slain included Rabbi Moshe Twersky, the son of Boston-born Isadore Twersky who founded Harvard University's Center for Jewish Studies. Rabbi Cary Levine, Rabbi Avraham Goldberg and Rabbi Aryeh Kopinsky were also killed, according to an announcement made by the synagogue." - Sean McBride
The political reverberations from this event are going to be huge. - Sean McBride
There are currently over 1172 comments at the New York Times on this incident: http://www.nytimes.com/2014... This time the Readers' Picks are going overwhelmingly against Palestinians in support of Israel. Nothing could have been more predictable. Most New York Times readers are responding with horror and revulsion to this attack -- with no equivocations or qualifications. - Sean McBride
The Jerusalem Post: Condemnations of synagogue attack pour in, even from Bahrain and Turkey http://bit.ly/1qmrXmj https://twitter.com/Jerusal... - Sean McBride
Why, if bahrain which brutally suppressed its own minorities is so eager to condemn something, it makes me wonder where they see the advantage in that. They are probably buddies with the mad israelites. - Danaa
Danaa, bahrain is run by a bunch of over-fed arab-zionist dictators - they're old jews who converted to islam not out of faith in Mohammad's message, but to plant the seed of greed and decay from within. - Taxi
Sean, the Palestinians, who are dying everyday under the isreali boot, don't give a shit what the NYT says about their cause. I really want you to understand this. And I really want you to understand that the occupied have the inalieanable right to resist. If you were Palestinian, would you honestly wait another six decades for 'europe and usa' to step up and help? Europe doesn't wanna... more... - Taxi
Those Americans who died were black hats. namely they were not really Americans in the sense that they could care didly-squat about the Americvan constitution, laws, customs or people. Theirs is one of the most selfish, xenophobic religions you can find anywhere in the world. The only thing separating them from ISIS is they don't do beheadings. Though in time, who knows? their shchita... more... - Danaa
taxi, is that true about bahrain rulers? do you have any material to support them being descendants of jewish converts? - Danaa
Danaa, the bahrain info is in a few Arabic history books - the ones that the royal gulfies have not been able to suppress. The same goes for the Saudi, kuwaiti and qatar royal families, some yemeni and libyan affluent tribes too - some emirate families too. They're all desert talmudists - while the Levant Arabs are more hilltop universalists. - Taxi
American
Time for Sean to be honest about what he is......https://www.mail-archive.com/politic... political-research] Jimmy Carter and the Jews--Demme's Documentary Sean McBride Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:01:39 -0800
Why do you want to lie and misrepresent yourself. If you want to have discussions of I/P and Israel why don't you admit you are Jewish and be honest about it with us. What do you think you have to gain by pretending not to be Jewish? You think you will be taken as 'unbiased' if you pose as non Jewish? Well that hasnt worked has it? - American
'' Sent to you by Sean McBride via Google Reader: Jimmy Carter and the Jews--Demme's Documentary via Mondoweiss by Philip Weiss on 11/16/08 A friend gave me the documentary, Man From Plains, about Jimmy Carter's 2006 book tour for Palestine Peace Not Apartheid. It came out a year ago. My wife and I watched it the other night. I would urge the good curators at Yivo to buy the film, for... more... - American
What's your point? It's a repost of a Mondoweiss article by Philip Weiss -- a FYI: http://mondoweiss.net/2008... I didn't express any opinions about the article -- just took note. Were you really unable to parse the metadata for that post? You think I wrote it? Funny. - Sean McBride
American -- when you falsely accuse people who disagree with you about Mideast politics of being Jewish, you sound completely crazy. You really need to stop doing that and start engaging in intellectually honest arguments. For instance, you might address the role of the incredibly powerful American military-industrial complex in promoting pro-Israel policies. But your mind shuts down when topics like that come up -- it doesn't fit into your purely Judeophobic narrative. - Sean McBride
Be honest about yourself. Everyone here has been open and up front about themselves...done everything but put out their actual phone numbers and address. You on the other hand refuse to say even what part of the country you are from, what you do for a living, where you went to school although you claim it was a ivy league. You demand others reveal everything about themselves and 'prove'... more... - American
American -- I strongly respect the right of Internet commenters on Mideast politics, including you, to protect their personal privacy. Questions about one's general ethnic, religious and cultural biases seem fair enough, however -- although no one is obligated to answer those questions. - Sean McBride
American -- did you assume, on no basis whatever, that I wrote the above Philip Weiss article? And then assume on that false belief that I am Jewish? An apology is in order -- you need to read more carefully before jumping the gun. I have been completely honest about my religious and ethnic background -- again, Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Anglo-American, Irish-American,... more... - Sean McBride
No I did not assume you wrote it, I assume you passed it on to the mail group because you agreed with it.....You are not going to get any apologies from me buddy. what you will get is a large dose of your own medicine. You either make apologies to all of us you have insulted and misrepresented or else....and you know exactly what I am talking about, so do it...apologize . - American
American -- you should know by now that I often pass along articles that I don't agree with -- they are useful as starting points for discussions, for acquiring insights into the opposition, etc. I do it all the time. Why in the world did you connect this Weiss article with the false accusation that I am Jewish? Which I am not remotely? It's because you find it impossible to believe... more... - Sean McBride
Man - here be one crazy thread! - Taxi
Ok -- I just reread this Weiss article on Jimmy Carter -- classic Weiss -- a wonderful article (written six years ago, in November 2008). I agree with it (and I am not Jewish). One notices that American received several critical responses in the comments after he posted an extremely long comment. I agree with his critique of liberal Zionism in his comments. I have absolutely no idea why... more... - Sean McBride
American, thanks for this reminder about the documentary. I remembered it vaguely but did not have the time to go search for it. It's really useful for what I am writing. The chapter about how I came to America and discovered there is something mysterious bandied about called "Jewish values". Took me some decades (till my political awakening period) to realize those values are mostly... more... - Danaa
Sorry for the OT, but the jewish reaction to Carter was indeed a flash point for me, my road to Damascus moment. Such a deeply decent human being, whatever one thinks of his presidency (which proved that decency is NOT enough of an advantage for a high office where dirty politics is what it's all about). The Jews (and I say deliberately "The Jews" because it was almost the full jewish... more... - Danaa
'' That such a "goy" would lay claim to decency and directness. The gall of that guy! ad to call things by their name, without a shred of pilpul! really, who the heck does he think he is? - Danaa)......:):):) Exactly! And exactly what we (and the world) need more of....plain talk and calling things exactly whatever they are. Not more seans, Slaters, and pilpul and hasbara and jingos and spin. - American
I said apologize Sean and you havent apologized to me or taxi or danaa for your deliberate lies and twisting of what we didnt even say. - American
American -- when I expressed strong opposition to the terrorist attack on the synagogue that was reported today, I was amazed to receive a barrage of excited critical comments from you, Taxi and Danaa. We all clearly have strong views on the subject of attacking civilians in houses of worship, and I doubt that further discussion will budge us from our firmly held positions. We should... more... - Sean McBride
What is so special about a "House of worship"? what's different between that and a house where a person lives and storm troopers enter willy-nilly, destroy and kill because they feel like it? why, did you stand up daily, Sean condemning all such acts? I realize it's a full-time job but hey, condemnation is as condemnation goes. At least richard Silverstein does do just that nearly... more... - Danaa
BTW, I condemn palestinians for being meat eaters, just as I condemn israelis, jews and everyone else. There now - consistency! go PETA! - Danaa
Hey I'm macrobiotic and I condemn all non-macros including vegetarians for eating dairy and combining foods with no rhyme or reason - lol! - Taxi
Danaa -- what is so special about a "house of worship": people are very emotional about their religious issues, houses of worship should be places of peace and sanctuary, and when you attack a house of worship you are attacking an entire religion and everyone who believes in it -- inciting a bloody holy war that could go on for years, decades, centuries or even millennia. It's a very big deal. - Sean McBride
I'd rather get fucked by an Arab than by a genocidal jew. LOL! Man, you are nasty and proud of it - lol! - Taxi
Worship-shmorship is what I say. A bunch of meat eaters where the meat comes from animals slaughtered with the utmost cruelty (yes, that's kosher for you). Why do we allow Americans to go and "worship" with the cultists anyways? Isn't it the same as those going to fight for ISIS? - Danaa
Also Sean, I do happen to think Judaism, as a religion kind of sucks. But then religion is not my cup of tea. It is based on the mostr genocidal book ever written , as you yourself said. What kind of a religion is this and why should I respect the balck hat nutcases with their 10 zillion children, all brought up to be zealots? Joking aside, it is high time to take the religion of... more... - Danaa
taxi is right. macrobiotic - that's the way. I plan to reform some day. - Danaa
True story: I haven't had a single day of sickness since I went macro in October 2004. And as long as I keep eating macro, I will never ever get sick for as long as I live. Yes, I aim to die healthy :-) - Taxi
Oh taxi, that's rough. You know there's a reason we get a little sick as we grow old. If we didn't suffer some degradation of the flesh we'd never go along with dying in the first place. I am trying to imagine a crowd of taxi-like macros in their 110th year raiding the hospitals and the nursing homes, laying waste to the country-side, absolutely refusing to die no matter what. Ouch! - Danaa
LOL Danaa - thanks for the hospital raiders image! Hilarious! Actually, I am not an 'immortalist' and the idea of living to over 100 years is positively unappealing to me - I just profoundly hate illness and its wastefulness. My 'chi' will run out before my vital organs decay so I know I will die in several decades but it won't be in a hospital or due to organ breakdown. I imagine I would take my last breath while quietly sleeping, or while calmly posting here on Sean's page lol! - Taxi
hey Taxi, perhaps when the time comes you could join with some brave Hezbollah fighters to raid the zio-state! even if you are 80 I am sure they would have a role for you, and perhaps you can take some zios with you to the other place. At least it'll be a warrior's death, even if not so pretty. On your gravestone (sorry for being morbid) it'll say - "Here lies the brave macro-Taxi, Not... more... - Danaa
So in my religion, if the "players" like your program because it's a kick, they might just bring it back, though no telling in what version or gender. That's my kind of resurrection as I keep telling WJones. - Danaa
LOL Danaa - I'd join ANYONE who needed liberation. If this was the sixties, I'd be living in some native straw hut in Vietnam and observing the wildlife and the resistance there. Just like I am doing right here in the south of Lebanon. I was born to be a witness by day and a town-crier by night. - Taxi
American
The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre
Was a shooting attack carried out by American-born Israeli Baruch Goldstein, a member of the far-right Israeli Kach movement, who opened fire on unarmed Palestinian Muslims praying inside the Ibrahimi Mosque (or Mosque of Abraham) at the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, West Bank. It took place on February 25, 1994, - American
The attack left 29 male worshippers dead and 125 wounded. The attack only ended after Goldstein was overcome and beaten to death by survivors. - American
Sean wants our reaction to the killing of 4 Israelis. - American
Here's mine---Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword. - American
I strongly condemned the Goldstein attack -- and have written at length about it -- including about reports of Jewish extremists who worship at Goldstein's grave. Israel suffered a major political blow because of that attack -- just as Palestinians are now suffering a major political blow over the synagogue attack. - Sean McBride
In israel this massacre by Goldstein is extohled by many to this day. especially the kind of black hats who "prayed" in that synagog to their god (which is really a modern day version of Beel Zvuv). In many ultra-orthodox communities and among too many israelis to count, not to mention quite a few American jews, Goldstein is a hero. They rever him for his act of ridding the world of a... more... - Danaa
But not to worry - despited my fierce opinions, I'm sure there'll be the likes of pepsi whill call me a gatekeeper, because that's their MO. hey American, tell us something about what the GFTG crowd is saying, eh? they went all secret private now. - Danaa
Danaa,,,,You are blocked from GFTG? I didnt know that, I knew Taxi was on the outs with them because of the JTFP fight but I thought I saw you comment there. Actually GFTG has gotten more a lot more sophisticated lately and pepsi is doing an excellent job of running a good steady stream of straight news reports on other issues; economics, politics, sports and world hot spots as well the... more... - American
LOL I take pride in single-handedly shutting-off gftg from the world. It's best that "sophisticated" rats stay living in dark sewers. - Taxi
American, I am not shut out actually but I simply did not register, though yes, I did comment a few times. The feed being private means that only registered users can see it. Pepsi did at times put up interesting, general purpose articles and I am always on the look-out for references. may be I will register though I can't promise to comment much. Having way too much fun arguing with... more... - Danaa
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
‘Zionism’ is now a dirty word for American opinion elite, Frank Luntz concedes - http://mondoweiss.net/2014...
41 percent of the American opinion elite look on Zionism as an unfavorable term, compared to just 29 percent of that group who regard it favorably, Israel-lovin pollster Frank Luntz concedes in leaked PowerPoint
Dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty zionism! And by far more dangerous than Iran and Ebola combined. - Taxi
"Zionism" is acquiring the same unpleasant vibe as "Bolshevism," "Communism," "Nazism," etc. -- Zionists themselves are feeling increasingly uncomfortable in being associated with the word. Once a word drifts into this linguistic and cultural territory it's almost impossible to reclaim. - Sean McBride
Political labels acquire the baggage of the deeds committed by the followers of the political movements they describe. - Sean McBride
Some of the by now entrenched associations: apartheid, biblical cultism, collective punishment, crazy-eyed settlers, ethnic extremism, house demolitions, olive tree uprootings, racism, religious extremism, spitting, violence committed against civilians, etc. - Sean McBride
Zionists killed the Zionist brand. - Sean McBride
My personal labels---- Petty, ugly, vile, filthy, evil, dirty, repugnant, repulsive, reprehenisble, pond scum, gutter rats, reptilian, nasty, obscene, comtemptible, debased, depraved, despicable, foul, worthless, abhorrent, spiteful, vicious, heinous , abominable, slimy, loathsome, malign, amoral, revolting, hideous, grotesque, malevolent, hatful,worthless, garbage - American
I would definitely not characterize Israelis collectively or individually with those terms -- most Israelis are human beings, no better or worse than human beings everywhere. But one could use negative terms (not this batch) to describe aspects of contemporary Zionist culture. Raw verbal abuse that is intended to dehumanize and demonize entire human groups doesn't really get us anywhere in solving difficult political problems and conflicts. - Sean McBride
This is what I would say: contemporary Zionist culture (both Jewish and Christian) is suffused and pervaded by racism and religious extremism. Not all Israelis and supporters of Israel are racists or religious extremists. Certainly not all pro-Israel activists are Jews -- in fact, most of them are non-Jews. Antisemites and Judeophobes are unable to make these distinctions -- they have suffered a mental meltdown on a fundamental level. They are beyond the reach of rational argument. - Sean McBride
'' Raw verbal abuse that is intended to dehumanize and demonize entire human groups doesn't really get us anywhere in solving difficult political problems and conflicts. - Sean McBride_.....I beg to differ. A 'group of humans' who dont object to their army regularly spraying skunk juice on Palestine childrens schools and homes should be demonized---and will be. - American
'' in fact, most of them are non-Jews. ''...Hasbara. Most are indeed Jews although to be fair many anti Israel protestors having the most impact are also Jews....but not Israelis. - American
NOT hasbara -- for instance, most pro-Israel activists in the US Congress are non-Jews. - Sean McBride
What *is* true is that the most influential financiers of the Israel lobby are Jews -- Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban are two good examples. - Sean McBride
Should we dehumanize and demonize all the citizens of all nations that are engaged in major human rights abuses? That would comprise a long list of peoples -- extending well beyond Israelis. - Sean McBride
Think of how you and others here reacted to Berthe's abuse of African-Americans and blacks collectively -- you knew in your gut that it was wrong. Think of the anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia expressed by many pro-Israel activists. - Sean McBride
I don't react to Jews collectively, I react to Zionist collectively....there is a difference. As far as I am concerned they should be as demonized as pedophiles. 'Oh I love Israel so I have to support it''.....is about as good an excuse to me as a child rapist saying he does it cause he loves children. - American
Most pro Israel activist in congress are bought lobby whores....so that isnt a good example. - American
So you are saying that non-Jewish Americans in the US Congress are whores and scoundrels, without backbone and character -- that doesn't say much for non-Jewish Americans in American politics, does it? Don't they possess enough money collectively to pursue the American interest? Too lazy? Too stupid? What? Do Jews possess the magical power to fog and control their minds? To force them to bow and scrape and rant on behalf of the Israeli government? - Sean McBride
Members of GFTG use the terms "the Zionists" and "the Jews" interchangeably -- their meaning and intentions couldn't be more clear. - Sean McBride
Your Jewish supremism is showing again Sean. And yea I am saying that non jewish americans in congress are treasonous, immoral whores....in fact I say that all the time. I am not obsessed with making non Jews out to be better than Jews ---but you are completely obsessed with trying to make Jews superior to non Jews....what causes that?....one day you must explain it to us. You are... more... - American
You, not me, are promoting a vision of Jewish supremacism -- you are claiming that Jews (who number around 2% of the American population) are somehow responsible for the bad behavior of non-Jews in the US Congress -- that small minority is supposedly so powerful, so politically skillful, that it can bend non-Jews in the Congress to its will. I am egalitarian in these matters -- I think... more... - Sean McBride
Now you are doing pilpul as well...chasing your tail. - American
'' Zionism" is acquiring the same unpleasant vibe as "Bolshevism," "Communism," "Nazism," etc. -- Zionists themselves are feeling increasingly uncomfortable in being associated with the word. '???????........Acquiring unpleasant vibes ???? ROTFLMAO - American
It is neither hasbara nor pilpul to point out that you keep claiming that hundreds of prominent non-Jewish Zionists in American politics are not responsible for their own beliefs and actions. Your assumption is that Jews possess magical super powers that enable them to bend helpless and hapless goyim to their will. Supposedly John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz and other non-Jewish Zionists will be able to get off the hook with the excuse that the Jews made them do it. That strikes me as bunkum. - Sean McBride
No I am not the one that claims non Jews are not responsible for their actions----I claim they are bought political whores fully responsible for their treason. You are the one who claims mystical and brilliant powers for the Jewish tribe who runs circles around the dumb goys. What I claim about Jews in general is they are a sheep like herd culture who keeps going over the cliff by... more... - American
Here is what you have said about me----->''American comes across as chauvinistic and xenophobic about Southern culture -- and intensely hostile towards all Jews and towards anyone who shows the slightest positive feelings towards any Jew -- the very definition of an antisemite and Judeophobe. He is afraid to get into a head-to-head discussion about these issues -- where is that famous... more... - American
"I would definitely not characterize Israelis collectively or individually with those terms -- most Israelis are human beings, no better or worse than human beings everywhere" - Sean McBride. So how do you square that with the fact that 94% of israelis approved of the wanton infanticide and mass murder of Gazans in the last round? How do you square that with the fact that time after... more... - Taxi
American -- do you support or condemn the recent Palestinian terrorist attack on the Israeli synagogue? It reminded me somewhat of Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr.'s terrorist attack at the Jewish Community Center -- except the Palestinians actually hit their target. [Wikipedia; Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....] I condemn the attack unreservedly... more... - Sean McBride
Come on pull up that thread and all my remarks that prove what you said about me. Lets see your evidence. Cause it whats its really going to show is your Jewish supremism, your hatred and bigotry toward the south and southerners, you're equating all of them to racist, your ignorance about the "Confederacy", about 'real' history, your ridiculous claim that slavery was inspired by... more... - American
STOP RIGHT THERE SEAN! Frazier Glenn Miller (whom you're now obsessed with) killed for hatred of jews - the Palestinians who attacked the synagogue KILLED FOR THEIR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT! - Taxi
Sean, asking people whether they condemn or supports acts of Palestinians, such as a hamas rocket or an attack on extremist temples/synagogs is pointless and disingenuous. 500 palestinian children were murdered in gaza by violent thugs, known as the IDF, a modern day equivalent of the Franco or the Pinochet regimes. The vast majority of israelis would be very happy to see every... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I have repeatedly and forcefully condemned Israeli attacks on Palestinian civilians -- have you really failed to notice? I strongly oppose terrorism all across the board, with no exceptions. - Sean McBride
many times I described israelis as members of a violent cult and you agreed Sean. You agree tIsrael is an ethnocentric, xenophobic, supremacist state. MOST citizens support that posture and MOST want MORE gaza killings not less. Why are you defending an evil cult? sure they are normal people. So were most Nazis - perfectly normal at home and to their neighbors. - Danaa
Danaa -- I am not defending Israel. My argument is that acts like this terrorist attack on an Israeli synagogue are not only wrong morally and ethically, but guaranteed to provide Israel with even greater political leverage against the Palestinians. Anyone who is defending this attack is doing the Palestinians no favors. - Sean McBride
I am not saying you defend Israeli's murderous actions. But at what point would you say enough if they killed your own? Do you want to sound like jen Psaki who "strongly disapproves" ciclian killings ion all sides? and are israeli rabbis - those guardians and promoters of the worst excesses of Israel - are they civilians or extremists? asking for support or condemnation in israel is... more... - Danaa
Most of us would rather see far fewer Jews in israel because to be a jew in Israel is to be a brute and a thug. There is no way out. Yes, exception is granted to those meager 10 or 100 thousand decent souls in Israel, who don't number much more than 1%. - Danaa
Sean, do you condemn the Gaza slaughter? Do you condemn the Jewish and Zionist Lobby that has worked to pervert US policy on Palestine. Do you condemn the racism of Israel? Do you condemn the Isr gov policy of allowing their IDF to shoot children and anyone else for the fun of it. Do you condemn the US gov support of israel. Do you condemn the Isr and zionist belief and 'demand' that... more... - American
Why were you not asking for condemnation on civilian killings of children in Israel? and are rabbis really civilians? did you look into what kind of synagog it was and whatkind of preachings were going there? - Danaa
Also, let me ask you this - do you Sean support the complete and total shunning of Israel, any product that comes from there and any individual who lives there? I do. That is the ONE AND ONLY way to put a break on the national psychosis that took over that murderous little country that's sucking the blood out of the American political system (and I don't mind if the imagery is repu;sive. What israel does every day, kicking America and the whole world in the teeth is repulsive). - Danaa
American and Danaa -- I have posted thousands of comments on Mondoweiss and here that have strongly condemned Israeli human rights violations against Palestinians -- but there is no way that I am going to express support for this terrorist attack on a synagogue. Is that the position of American, Danaa and Taxi here -- that you support the attack? - Sean McBride
If someone took away from you Sean everything you hold dear would you be going around asking for "polite condemnations"? would a tsek-tsek do? You have no right to ask for condemning the people who are condemned by Israeli brutality (which nearly ALL Israelis support) to the horrors of life under perpetual occupation. You should really look sometime into the actions of the vaunted French resistance for historical precendents on what people will do to oppose occupation. - Danaa
Danaa -- again, I have repeatedly argued that the West should keep ratcheting up political and financial pressure on Israel until it changes its behavior towards the Palestinians and accepts a fair and just solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. That is the only strategy that has the slightest chance of working. - Sean McBride
Nobody says you support Israel. But I am taking a serious issue with you asking people to "condemn" ANY act of resistance by palestinians. It is simply not for you to promote a high and mighty view whereby ALL "civilian" deaths are "Unfortunate". I repeat - what is an israeli civilian? a soldier who committed heinous crimes against humanity, say in Gaza, and goes home to his loving family at night. Is he a civilian? - Danaa
Sean, the problem is that you keep giving mixed messages. One day you're down on the israelis and the next you're defending them like there's no tomorrow. I've seen this syndrome before - it's called PC extremism. Utterly out of touch with reality and garners no intellectual respect. - Taxi
Danaa -- the main issue here is *PRACTICAL POLITICS* -- how does one achieve one's political goal? The application of physical violence against Israeli civilians and synagogues will only further tighten Israel's grip on the occupied territories (and Greater Israel) -- and undermine support for Palestinians among the American and European political mainstream. - Sean McBride
It's not about ratcheting up - it's about COMPLETE shunning of anything from and by Israel and complete withdrawal of any support from jewish people who support the murderous behavior by that thuggish entity. One must demonstrate that israel, and ALL the jews who support their heinous crimes against humanity, are not fit to be welcome in the company of other humans. I am not asking for BDS as much as for complete and total shunning. An expulsion from the ranks of humans. What else would you like to know? - Danaa
If not violence at this stage, Sean, what the heck do you suggest Palestinians do? - Taxi
'' I strongly oppose terrorism all across the board, with no exceptions. - Sean McBride'')....Obviously you do not oppose terrorism. What the Zio orgs do in the US is a form political terrorism --that has killed 1000's of Palestines and done untold damage to others interest-----AND yet you always present this terrorism as ' brilliant, as outsmarting lazy dumb goys, as a 'success' of the... more... - American
It is very PRACTICAL for each of us to refuse to keep company with anything from or by Israel or from or by any jewish individual who expresses support of the killers actions AND attitudes. When israel withdraws from the west bank and agrees to pay restitution of 100's of Biliions of $'s to the 48 refugees then we can start talking. I won't even speak hebrew to any Israeli or shake... more... - Danaa
What is terrorism, Sean? again what was preached in that synagog exactly/ did you look into that? - Danaa
American -- you have misread me every step of the way. I have simply pointed out that the Israel lobby has outplayed and dominated the opposition in American politics since the 1940s to the present day. I keep asking -- how can one practically and effectively change this dynamic? Verbal abuse, trash talk and angry posturing are not going to do the job. The lobby will continue to roll... more... - Sean McBride
Terrorism is physical violence committed against civilians and non-combatants in political conflicts -- it's really quite simple. - Sean McBride
And what is 'resistance', Sean? - Taxi
You do know that resistance is self-defense, right? - Taxi
Taxi -- do you support committing terrorist acts against pro-Israel and Zionist synagogues in the United States and Europe? Would you characterize that activity as legitimate resistance and self-defense? - Sean McBride
No I haven't misread you. I have nailed you and you wont admit it and come clean about yourself and your real motivations for even being in the Israel-I/P- USA issue. - American
Terrorism is also incitement and the calling for physical and cultural violence against a people. That's what's done in lots of israeli institutes including the cult collectives known as "synagogs". Some of those synagogs are cesspools of hatred and putrid bigotry. What they preach is terrorism. So if you can't arrest them all what do you do? why is ISIS bombed and not israel? can you tell us that, Sean? - Danaa
Sean, stfu with your insanely vain questions! - Taxi
American -- how can you "nail" anyone when you are unable to engage with the substance of points and arguments? To my main point -- that the Israel lobby has consistently rolled over and dominated the opposition in American politics -- you have no reply and no practical solution. Do you really think that venting angry words against "the Zionists" (or "the Jews") will have the slightest impact on the situation? - Sean McBride
'' Taxi -- do you support committing terrorist acts against pro-Israel and Zionist synagogues in the United States and Europe? Would you characterize that activity as legitimate resistance and self-defense? - Sean McBride)......Why do you ask these stupid questions? - American
If any acts are committed against the murderous thugs who sit and play nice in israeli embassies while the palestinians burn, it is not for the rest of us to condemn or praise. IF a chain saww wielding serial killer is killed while sipping coffee pretending to be a "civilian" and if he resists arrest, would you call in the swat team or not? - Danaa
Danaa -- what synagogues around the world do you think should be legitimate targets of physical attack? - Sean McBride
I support American and Taxis's questions - who and what are we to ask for "condemnations" of anyone who hits at a criminal, brutal state? I can ask you Sean, what would you have supported that the Alegrien libration movement did against the French? you do know that no occupier, ever, left any place anytime, because someone asked them nicely to do so. - Danaa
Another dumb-fuck mosad question from Sean! - Taxi
One could easily get the impression that several people here support committing terrorist violence against synagogues -- is this in fact the case? - Sean McBride
I could care less about any synagog anywhere if they support murder. same with churches - if they call for murder and mayhem by supporting a torrid little place like Israel, I don't care what the heck they do in their little synagogs. You are asking questions of me but not answering mine. So, again, if you were Algerina back in the 50's what would you have done to help free Algeria? well, the resistance brought the war to France, didn't they? and it worked, didn't it? when nothing else did. - Danaa
Sean none of us here on this board cares a hoot about your requests for "condemnations". Also you did not answer me about what was preached in the sult's synagog that was attacked? may be they were the sweetest little synagog ever, in which case, I would say it's unfortunate they got caught on the front line. BTW< are you or are you not condemning the kiev nazi Junta of what they have... more... - Danaa
Danaa wrote: "I could care less about any synagog anywhere if they support murder." I hear you loud and clear. - Sean McBride
Sean, all of us commenting on this blog are against the cult of death known as israel, AND all their supporters. You won't get anything else out of us. If you want to take the view that some israelis are nice and therefore all should be spared, that's like playing god who urged Abraham to find 10 just people in Sodom. Playing god, is not something the rest of us care to do. We are with... more... - Danaa
Do you Sean support a synagog that preaches murder? or terrorism by Israeli storm troopers (misleadingly named I"D"F)? if you do, then you are with them who are murderers. Why do those synagogs even have licences/ why aren't they treated like the KKK? you tell me that, Sean, what's the difference between Addelson and a KKK member? if a gathering of KKK types was bombed by some black... more... - Danaa
FYI< Sean I don't track with any synagog or church or mosque. But I do care what they preach in those places of religion to young people - Danaa
The key question for me is this: does one condemn or support terrorist attacks on civilians at synagogues, churches and mosques in political conflicts. This is a no-brainer for me, as it is for most Americans and Europeans. If you want to support such attacks, that is your choice. But I can guarantee you that they will backfire and play right into the hands of Likud Zionists, Greater... more... - Sean McBride
More questions to Sean, do you condemn the rocket firings by Hamas? if Hezbollah was attacked and countered by raining rockets on israeli population centers, would you condemn them? I am just saying that this business of asking for "condemnations" is silly. It's a game for kindergartners at the state department, cf. "we condemn all loss of life" (ie, we care a bit more about the cult members life than their victims, but hey who's quibbling as long as we get our "condemnation"). - Danaa
Asking for condemnations of terrorist attacks directed specifically at civilians in synagogues, churches and mosques is "silly"? Really? We will have to disagree. - Sean McBride
'' Do you really think that venting angry words against "the Zionists" (or "the Jews") will have the slightest impact on the situation? - Sean McBride).....Yes indeed I do. Stay tuned. I am going to tell you this eternal and universal fact one more time-----'traitor' trumps 'anti semite' every day of the week in every country in the universe.....the last time I called a politician a... more... - American
Sean, again, you can have any opinion you want about the I/P conflict and what is and isn't practical. What you can't do is ask for this or that individual to condemn anything done by people who are brutally oppressed because personally you know nothing about and have not experienced oppression. If and when you do, we can talk. I listen to those who suffer not to those oceans and... more... - Danaa
American -- that you would accuse a fourth-generation American of not being American -- and someone who largely agrees with you on Israel, Zionism and the Israel lobby -- speaks to how ineffective you will be in building an effective political alliance to counter AIPAC and its friends. Despite all your angry words over the last decade, the Israel lobby is more powerful in American politics than ever -- and you don't seem to understand why this is the case. - Sean McBride
You are just like so called liberal zionist ,Jerry Slater Sean ..just like him in your convoluted pilpul on Jews, Israel, US politics and etc.. - American
Actually, American, I strongly criticized Jerry Slater on Mondoweiss and bested him in argument (from my perspective). And I led the charge in deconstructing and ridiculing liberal Zionism. But I strongly oppose terrorist attacks on civilians in houses of worship. You, Taxi and Danaa support such attacks -- and duly noted. The three of you are going to find yourself in a very tiny and... more... - Sean McBride
Oh I fully understand the case Sean..its political money and corruption. And i fully understand your case also...you want all of us to think you are smart and others are dumb and unrealistic. That most here arent buying your bs should tell you exactly how smart you are. - American
American -- I am smart enough to make accurate political predictions on a regular basis. I am making a political prediction right now -- Palestinians are going to pay a heavy political price in the West for this latest attack. From the standpoint of political chess, it's a no-brainer. Watch closely and see how many influential Americans and Europeans fall behind *your* position on this issue -- you are going to be more marginalized than ever. You simply don't know how to play the game. - Sean McBride
Gawd....you are so stupid sean....taxi danaa and me support terrorist attacks and are going to be in your 'marginalized minorities' again and damage the Palestine cause...lol - American
Sean, you are twisting everything. Neither me notr taxi nor America said they supported attacks on synagogs one way or another. We are all, I believe, just saying that it is not for us to condemn what extremely oppressed and persecuted people do over there. And it is also not for you to ask for condemnations. Whether such attacks are good or bad tactics for palestinians to use, that's... more... - Danaa
American -- Martin Dempsey, the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recently came out in strong support of Operation Protective Edge -- was that all about political money and corruption? How precisely? I recall, by the way, that Pat Lang on Sic Semper Tyrannis was rather a Dempsey fan. - Sean McBride
Dempsey is a totally corrupt individual. yes, money and power corrupt everythiing and everyone. What he said about operation "Hard Rock" (which israel sold to the world as protective Edge) was idiotic. he should have been fired pronto. If he wasn't then yes, money corrupts everything and he was influenced by the fifth column that's doing quite well in the US> - Danaa
Has Dempsey taken money from the Israel lobby? What are the facts? - Sean McBride
Pat lang is no longer a Dempsey fan. People change. Dempsey may have once been upstanding but if he supports heinous atrocities committed by a cult of madmen and mad women then he is a goner. How was he brought to his knees is the only valid question here. - Danaa
Do you have any links to Lang's anti-Dempsey comments? I'd love to read them, but don't have time to browse his site. - Sean McBride
You have no clue how the Lobby operates. They have surrounded Obama, you know. and they are making inroads through the military officer ranks. Demsey is a man with a career to protect. Threaten that career and it's likely no money needs to change hands. happened to many. I urge you to look at one of your lsist to find the names. To me, it's not the ones we know that's an issue. It's the ones we don't know about. Dempsey did what he had to do to keep his position, that's all. - Danaa
I have no links to lang since I am not a daily or even weekly reader there. Sometimes it's not by pronouncements that one recognizes a position change but by silence. For lang to come outright against Dempsey would be foolhardy. But he can stop praising him, can't he? - Danaa
Danaa -- I think one has a moral responsibility to condemn all terrorist attacks on civilians in houses of worship without hesitation or qualification. Being evasive about whether such attacks are right or wrong will be interpreted as support for such attacks in many quarters. It's a losing political position in Western politics. - Sean McBride
It is not for me to condemn what palestinian do and neither it is for you. It's the height of arrogance to say otherwise. You can go ahead and condemn whatever you want, just don't ask the rest of us. - Danaa
Danna -- I do in fact have a plan to help the Palestinians -- try to influence American and European political elites to apply effective pressure on Israel to stop violating Palestinian human rights and agree to a just solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It's the only plan that has a slim chance of working -- and it doesn't include terrorist attacks on synagogues. Obama and... more... - Sean McBride
BTW, I condemn meat eaters everywhere all the time. Just so you know. They eat the flesh or real living and breathing creatures just because they feel like it. So, does my condemnation change anything for anyone? also I support Peta. Does that make me an extremist? - Danaa
'' American -- I am smart enough to make accurate political predictions on a regular basis'....Sean).....Oh really? Give us one. And not what some political whore for the zio lobby is gonna say about Palestine aqttacks ----thats not a political prediction. ..thats sop for lobby whores. My prediction is that the Palestine revenge attacks will increase the calls by the EU and others for there to be a settlement of I/P - American
Quick Sean whose your senator...you got 3 seconds to answer. - American
Your 3 seconds are up. - American
American -- I challenge you over the coming days to find a single American politician or pundit (mainstream or alternative media) who expresses support for the terrorist attack on the synagogue. And this has nothing to do with Zionism -- these kinds of attacks provoke revulsion all across the political spectrum. - Sean McBride
Here is Rand Paul weighing in: - Sean McBride
Senator Rand Paul: Prayers sent to ppl of Israel. This horrific & violent act should be universally condemned. I vow to #StandWithIsrael http://www.paul.senate.gov/... https://twitter.com/SenRand... - Sean McBride
I challenge you to make one comment that isnt twisted and unrelated to what taxi,danaa or I have said. And seriously how STUPID STUPID STUPID is this question......" to find a single American politician or pundit (mainstream or alternative media) who expresses support for the terrorist attack on the synagogue''''..Can you get any more STUPID STUPID STUPID than to suggest anyone is going to make a statement supporting it? - American
Twitter, per usual, is a reliable guide to how opinion is trending on particular issues among thought leaders: https://twitter.com/search... I haven't seen a single tweet yet trying to defend or justify the attack. Zip. - Sean McBride
'' the Israel lobby is more powerful in American politics than ever -- and you don't seem to understand why this is the case. - Sean McBride)......Why dont you explain to us why this the case Sean....come on we wanna hear your explanation. - American
American -- I've provided you with the explanation many times -- but your mind is closed and you don't want to listen. Many non-Jewish Americans support Israel and Zionism for a wide variety of reasons -- ideological, religious, cultural, financial, etc. The military-industrial complex is an especially powerful player in this game -- it has profited to the tune of hundreds of billions... more... - Sean McBride
Sean, your plan for Palestine sucks and is utterly unrealistic - it's been tried and tried again: pressure and reasoning with the zionist state does NOT work, evidently. But you seem to think it can so you go ahead and start that ball rolling and see where that gets you. Also, politicians DO NOT represent the will of the people in our democracies, they represent the funds and wills of corporations. - Taxi
American -- classical Western imperialist interests (*not* Jewish) have used Zionism as a convenient cover for running roughshod over the Middle East. Jewish Zionists have done all the heavy lifting for them in terms of churning out endless streams of self-justifying propaganda for their policies. It's a sweet deal especially from the standpoint of the military-industrial complex. These factors may be in play with regard to Martin Dempsey, who sits near the top of that particular power elite. - Sean McBride
Taxi -- if political pressure from the West won't rein in Israel (and that is a likely scenario), then I fear that Palestinians are facing a future that will be even more horrifing than their past. They can engage in military resistance, but I doubt that it will work. The track record since the 1940s suggests that it won't. But I don't think we should give up in firing up political pressure on Israel in the United States and Europe -- it *might* work. - Sean McBride
American -- make that supports, provides apologetics for, hems and haws about, equivocates about, etc. the attack on the synagogue -- I haven't seen any of that among the usual thought leaders among critics of Israel. Maybe you will turn up something. Be sure to post it if you do. - Sean McBride
Sean, if the global jewish collective was innocent and not going to hell and high water to support the war crimes of the racist state of israel, then I would find any attacks against them unacceptable. But the fact is that the jewish collective are in total, whole-hearted alignment with israel's ethnic cleansing, incremental genocide and infanticide. So it doesn't bother me to hear... more... - Taxi
I seem to recall the FBI trying really hard to reason with David Koresh and followers. Now, why, oh why did the whole place have to go up in flames? is there some truth to the assertion that reasoning with cult followers and leaders is like reasoning with the insane who claims to be napoleon? now what is practical? I believe the FBI thought they were being quite practical when they laid... more... - Danaa
If palestinians end up driven out and herded into bantustans like Gaza, there to slowly suffocate as the people in Gaza do, then perhaps, perhaps some reaction can be expected. be it upon upon houses of cult worship (cf. synagogs) or houses of education (cf. preaching) or any other place where jewish people and friends run about frolicking while others are burning. I am sure that when... more... - Danaa
For your own sake, Sean you need to take a stand on which side you are. I know you understand Big Data but I don't think you (or I, for that matter) are experts at tactics available to those who are too weak to defend themselves. - Danaa
What taxi said above about the global jewish collective - hear, hear. - Danaa
My thoughts on "the global Jewish collective": don't try to harangue and bully Jews into a corner but give them every conceivable opportunity to revise their views and to modify the policies of the collective. Try to create openings and situations for positive change. Any anti-Israel and anti-Zionist rhetoric that has the look and feel of classical antisemitism and Judeophobia will just... more... - Sean McBride
'' Sean, if the global jewish collective was innocent and not going to hell and high water to support the war crimes of the racist state of israel, then I would find any attacks against them unacceptable. But the fact is that the jewish collective are in total, whole-hearted alignment with israel's ethnic cleansing, incremental genocide and infanticide. So it doesn't bother me to hear... more... - American
Why don't you put your intellectual meat on the table and rebut the points, jkk asshole! - Taxi
Sean, do we really have to suffer more zionists who only have four words in their vocab: hitler, kkk, nazi and antisemite? The fucker has no tolerance for honest goy intellectual activity. - Taxi
American
http://www.state.gov/j... Department of State Public Notice
Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor Request for Proposals: Combatting Anti-Semitism in Europe The Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor (DRL) announces a Request for Proposals (RFP) from organizations interested in submitting proposals for projects that will combat anti-Semitism in Europe. - American
Combatting Anti-Semitism: approximately $330,000, pending availability of funding: Combatting Anti-Semitism: approximately $330,000, pending availability of funding: - American
Constantly shuffling our tax money to the Jews...and they wonder why there is anti semitism. - American
How much of our tax money goes to non-Jewish defense contractors, white Christians (many of them in red states), African-Americans, Hispanics, etc.? $330,000 is a drop in the bucket. Many special interest groups and lobbies are the recipients and beneficiaries of "our tax money." We have spent hundreds of billions of dollars on military ventures alone during recent years. - Sean McBride
Regarding the hyping of "Combatting Anti-Semitism" campaigns: they are largely designed to divert attention away from the problems that Israel and Zionism are creating for Jews all around the world -- not just in Europe. Imagine how much damage Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban by themselves have done to the public image of Jews and the Jewish lobby. - Sean McBride
So what if the jews wanna self-destruct?! It's not the first time, nor will it be the last time that a hostile tribe fades from the pages of history. - Taxi
Since Jews have survived for several millennia, and are more successful now than ever before, it is unlikely that they are going fade from the pages of history in the near future or ever. The future of the Jews is not dependent on the future of Israel or Zionism. - Sean McBride
'' The future of the Jews is not dependent on the future of Israel or Zionism. - Sean McBride).....Their futures are now entertwined.......'' Imagine how much damage Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban by themselves have done to the public image of Jews and the Jewish lobby. - Sean McBride)......The Jews let the Adelson's and Saban's do it because the Jews benefit from the zionist entitlement. - American
Find for us Sean an example of a grant given to study the phenomenon of school shootings in the US that killed more children in the last decade than Jews have been from anti semitism. - American
If Israel and Zionism fail, Jews will simply rebuild around a new ideology and strategy. Jewish civilization is highly flexible and resilient -- capable of bouncing back from major failures -- even catastrophic failures. - Sean McBride
The next jewish catastrophe will be worse than ever - because the goys who helped them last time have all but been stabbed in the back by world jewry. - Taxi
Pay attention....the US is going 'red', 38 of 51 states are now controlled by conservative legislatures and governors. In the next presidential election they will take the WH. This is a reaction to the 'extreme' liberalism of the Dems who have cultivated a government and culture of victims and minority entitlements and bashing of white America and traditional values.. What does this... more... - American
American, unfortunately the conservatives can be "played" by Jewish establishment just as much as the liberals have been. May be more so because of the religious base, where a great deal of naivite and gullibility strengthens the hands of the "great jewish myth makers". I know there's another side to conservatives, one represented by libertarians but they are not very prominent on the... more... - Danaa
That is exactly what they will do.....but their fringes,especially their 'religious' will never hold. The right is very much more fractured than the liberal left. Both parties know they are 'played' by the Jewish establishment but the difference is the right wing likes to employ and show off their power, they are a lot less inclined 'to be used' and more inclined to be the 'user'. They... more... - American
It's funny....in the election of Obama I told friends that he would either 'be the revolution' people were waiting for.......or set the stage for a giant red land political revolution----I think that's whats going to happen. The Dems have blown it. And their push to legalize all the immigrants is going to kill them in most states---the liberals have gotten too liberal for the moderate 45% of the country. Its going to be a wild time. - American
I agree with you about the immigrants issue, American. I believe the democrats are way out to lunch on this issue when it comes to reading the voters true sentiments. Note that oregon, that most liberal of liberal states just passed a measure by a 2;1 majority denying illegal immigrants the right to a drivers' licence. That when the legislature approved it decisively., and the opponents... more... - Danaa
If Obama goes ahead with the "amnesty" unilaterally, I believe that would practically hand over the next presidential election to republicans (as long as they manage to come up with a half-way decent candidate). - Danaa
One gets the impression that Americans overall are not in the mood to welcome a large influx of illegal immigrants from mostly a single ethnic group -- Obama and the Democrats will probably pay a significant political price for aggressively pushing a policy that no other nation in the world would endorse for itself. There is nothing especially "progressive" about such a policy -- or even rational. - Sean McBride
I am not against immigration but I am against 'iIllegal immigration . And its not a matter of racism as the Dems try to demonize its opponents , its a matter of economics---you cant keep exporting jobs and importing workers. - American
According to the 2012 Census 35.4 percent of all American were receiving welfare payments . That's 109 million people out of 309 million people in the United States. and that does not count unemployment benefits. We have spent 20 trillion since Johnson declared 'war on poverty'---it hasnt worked. Its gotten worse. I don't know what the GOP plan to address this is but the Dem program has... more... - American
Once all the illegal immigrants are legalized they will have to pay taxes and into SS and etc----but many will also qualify for various forms of welfare assistance for the 'working poor'...part timers and low wage workers. If I am not mistaken the income thresh hold for a family with 4 children to qualify for government SSI food cards is $40,000 . You could describe the entire US economic agenda as a Ponzi Scheme. The money is moved upward and downward and the middle is left holding the bag. - American
American, the presence of large numbers of immigrants in the US is largely because we --(Washington)--in addition to the IMF and World Bank have destroyed the economies of their native countries. <<First, businesses in the US needed low wage labor… Second the so-called Free Trade Agreement made it impossible for many small farmers in Mexico to survive. Third, the US wars and... more... - weareone
'' So when we stop invading other countries, their citizens will no longer have to flee here in an attempt to survive which is a cruel and strange paradox--)...Global capitalist in the form of the US preying on lesser countries might be part of the problem but its not the entire problem re immigrants. Mexico for example is totally corrupt all on its own by its own government. - American
American, as you say, I'm sure it's not the entire problem, but my sense is that immigration is the tip of a much larger iceberg --a consequence, not a cause in itself. Mexico, like many governments worldwide may be corrupt, but does not appear to be acting alone. Much has been written on this, but just an example: <<Since 2011 the US has not only continued “losing” its war on drugs... more... - weareone
The immigrant issue can be used, like all others, as another tool to distract and divide us--ie. blue vs red, American vs Mexican and other immigrants, Democrat vs Republican--or we can finally recognize that we all have a common problem and it's not each other. There is enough in the world for everyone- the problem is the hoarding of the earth's bounty by 1% or less of the population. Maybe we should focus our collective energies on them....just a thought. - weareone
weareone -- are you arguing that the United States should permit open and unlimited immigration from Latin America and everywhere else in the world? I can't think of any other nation in the world that practices such a policy -- for reasons of clear self-interest. In an ideal world, national borders would disappear -- but I don't think we are quite there yet. - Sean McBride
wao....you are going to the 'universal' on the migration and immigration problems. I was talking strictly about the US immigration problem and the domestic economic implications. The UN identifies the cause of mass migrations and immigrations to be 1) poverty, 2)wars and 3) government repression/persecution of different groups. So 'ideally' without those things migrations would be... more... - American
Sean and American, no I 'm not arguing that the US should permit "unlimited immigration." I'm simply suggesting that the problem is much more complex than is usually presented in the media. These other contributing factors are rarely discussed, at least in my experience, and if a reasonable and fair solution is to be achieved, they will need to be considered, imo. - weareone
'' In an ideal world, national borders would disappear -- but I don't think we are quite there yet. - Sean McBride).....I disagree. If you want to see real world wide chaos do away with sovereign nations. What authority and or world body do you envision upholding your 'rights' or trying to maintain order in boarderless world?....the UN?....you would be standing in a long- long- long line to have your grievance heard. - American
I also don't believe the solution lies in removing national borders, but in respect for each nation's sovereignty. - weareone
What are the primary factors driving national identity? A question worth pondering. - Sean McBride
Its different for different countries. For Israel's its victim hood and choseniness in both the religious and people hood sense for both the religious and secular fractions. For most normal countries like for instance new Zealand its mostly just national identity period.....not one religious or ethnic identity. - American
Ethnicity -- including the expression and protection of ethnic cultures -- seems to be the primary driver of national identity in most nations. - Sean McBride
# a few examples 1. China 2. Egypt 3. France 4. Germany 5. Greece 6. Ireland 7. Japan 8. Mexico 9. Norway 10. Spain 11. Sweden 12. Switzerland 13. Thailand 14. Turkey 15. Vietnam - Sean McBride
Many (most?) national conflicts are ethnic conflicts -- conflicts over ethnic cultures, values, interests, etc. - Sean McBride
# what comprises an ethnic culture? -- a few components 1. architecture 2. business practices 3. cinema 4. clothing 5. cuisine 6. customs 7. education 8. language 9. law 10. literature 11. manners 12. music 13. political values 14. religion 15. sanitation 16. science and technology 17. work habits - Sean McBride
Nations have repeatedly gone to war against one another over these ethnic cultural issues. - Sean McBride
When you visit the capital cities of these nations, you know you are in the midst of distinct ethnic cultures. - Sean McBride
Sean, yes, I view cultural diversity as a gift, making the world more interesting but I think cultural issues are used as an excuse for war ( Arab vs Israeli) rather than being the underlying cause. It seems to me that the causes are usually related to greed, selfishness and coveting of land and resources. If I could go back to your comment about borders disappearing. I should have said... more... - weareone
I think the emotional attachment of many people to their respective ethnic cultures plays a significant role in national and group conflicts -- never underestimate the role of non-rational factors in human behavior. People feel a strong instinctive need to protect whatever they prize as their quality of life. And of course feelings of ethnic self-interest are fully compatible with the... more... - Sean McBride
It is true that transnational interests and players can manipulate these ethnic and cultural conflicts for personal gain -- but these conflicts have a powerful proactive life of their own -- that is why they are so easy to exploit. It often takes very little to ignite them and to fan the flames. - Sean McBride
Well, I'm not convinced of that. Minus the manipulation, the enmity may not exit. As more people are becoming aware of the manipulation (ie. 9/11) it may not be as easy to instigate wars. - weareone
[Wikipedia; Ethnic conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] "Examples of ethnic wars since the 1990s were typically caused by secessionist movements leading to the breakup of multi-ethnic states along ethnic lines: the Yugoslav Wars, the First Chechen War, the Nagorno-Karabakh War, the Rwandan Civil War, and War in Darfur among others." - Sean McBride
It would be interesting to create a timeline of ethnic conflicts and wars for the last several thousand years up until the year 2014. I am not convinced that they are going to go away any time soon. - Sean McBride
Well I agree with both of you...as wao said greed--even when its based on a ethnic group,as in they band together to plunder some other group or fight some group that is plundering them ---is most often the factor. I also agree with Sean that other ethic wars comes from the ethnic group's megalomania--as in zionism---megalominics greed factor is their belief that because of their superiority all riches to should flow to them. - American
You need to remember however that all the world's major wars have been over territory or a nation to nation power dispute. - American
If you want a world without war then you should realize my Almighty Swat Team is only solution----because you are always going to have a certain number of bad people and psychopaths in leadership positions of nations and groups who are willing to kill millions of people to achieve their agendas. - American
Sean McBride
W.Jones -- on Rosemary Radford Ruether
One of the best Christian critiques of Zionism I have read is [book; Rosemary Radford Ruether, Herman J. Ruether; The Wrath of Jonah: The Crisis of Religious Nationalism in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict; Fortress Press; 2002 http://www.amazon.com/Wrath-J...]. (It was originally published in 1989.) - Sean McBride
Have you read it? What are your best recommendations in this literature (Christian critiques of Zionism)? - Sean McBride
"In this well-written, powerful sequel to Faith and Fratricide, the Ruethers (she is author of Women-Church; he is acting director of the Palestinian Human Rights Campaign) argue that Israel and the U.S., not the Palestinians, are the chief obstacles to peace in the Middle East. The authors believe that the PLO's implicit recognition of Israel's right to exist "needs to be accepted and... more... - Sean McBride
Sean, I am Orthodox so I recommend The Nation of Israel in Prophecy: https://groups.google.com/d... This was written by a leading theologian of the Antiochian Church to which Mideast Christians belong. Kairos USA was good except for its section denouncing "Replacement Theology". I recommend you look up the section in the "Orthodox Wikipedia" on that topic. - W.Jones
Sean, You asked me to look at THE WRATH OF JONAH. On page 24 she says the Old Testament has been superseded. That is correct. Otherwise we would still demand animal sacrifices and other rituals of Leviticus not to mention the concept of ritual cleanliness. Unfortunately what some authors have noted (See the PCUSA Book Steadfast Hope). Thus Ruether's book "Faith and Fratricide: The... more... - W.Jones
Christ at the Checkpoint's talk by Isaac Munther was fine. Stephen Sizer is a good writer about this. This is a good debate he engaged in where his Calvinist Christian Zionist opponent admitted that the New Testament superseded the Old one: http://www.google.com/url... - W.Jones
W.Jones -- thanks for your thoughtful pointers. I know Sizer's work -- it's solid. I'll get around to watching the video later this weekend. - Sean McBride
When you say you are Orthodox, which branch? - Sean McBride
Regarding supersessionism -- all ideologies and belief systems, religious and secular, evolve, change and revise themselves over time -- this is a natural and good thing. We are continuously learning more about the world and acquiring new insights. Judaism itself has evolved over centuries -- discarded some old ideas and adopted some new ideas. The main point is that we need to treat... more... - Sean McBride
Rather than "replace" one ideology with another, it might be more productive, whenever possible, to draw upon whatever elements in most ideologies are most beneficial for us all. - Sean McBride
Sean, Regarding Replacement, this is partly a semantic issue. If I were to follow your advice and draw on those good elements and then make a new ideology from them I could be considered to have "replaced" my previous belief in an ideology with the new one that I have just created as you instructed. - W.Jones
True enough --- but one could leave the previous ideologies intact, free to develop along their own paths for whoever chooses to believe in them. - Sean McBride
Sean, if you do that, then the later version of the ideology "replaces" the earlier version. It really can be that simple. it is not antisemitic as its critics label it. it just means that Christianity develops some things, bases itself on Judaism, but does not demand every thing like some rituals. That is what the traditional view about the two testaments is. What they will do, Sean,... more... - W.Jones
My bottom line on this: all branches of Judaism, Christianity and Islam should be allowed to develop along their own paths -- as long as no group violates the human and civil rights of any of the others. Any group is free to "replace" the beliefs of any other group -- to develop new interpretations of established doctrine -- or to develop entirely new doctrines. Let the free marketplace of ideas sort it out all out. - Sean McBride
I would not care much abotu the replace/ no replace debate about Christianity. Except that it is being abused: the claim is that early Christians believe in replacement and this means they are racist so therefore we must reject early Christian thinking about this. Obviously that is a problematic way of thinking and is its own kinds of "replacement" in fact. - W.Jones
That line of thinking would basically eradicate Christianity at its roots -- no wonder most Christians are not sympathetic to it. :) - Sean McBride
Sean, I think many Christians have not thought it through. I certainly didnt until I wanted to know the Christian traditional response to Christian Zionism. I think if they pick up a book like Ruether (depending on which of the two books) they will tend to accept whatever she says because she is an expert and will of course explain her view in a sophisticated way. So if she says... more... - W.Jones
I need to look more into her views on replacement theology before I can comment. I haven't read her other book. - Sean McBride
Ok -- she approaches the supersessionist issue from a feminist standpoint -- http://people.bu.edu/wwildma... -- that's a different set of issues from her critique of Zionism -- highly problematic for many traditional Christians. I wouldn't dare to wade into that. Feel free to disagree with her on replacement theology. :) - Sean McBride
Sean: The one (rejection of traditional views on the testaments) runs into the other (upholding the Old Testament concepts in full force), even if the author does not intend that. Secondly, rejecting so called supersessionism from a feminist standpoint is counterintuitive. The New testament strengthened women's place in society. Jesus healed women and touched them and women played... more... - W.Jones
Just delete the thread- I can't delete "W.Jones" posts. Thank you. - WJones
An couple of side notes to your debate: most orthodox Jews take it for granted that the Talmud - with all its contradictions and argumentations - effectively supersedes the Old Testament's laws (Leviticus etc). The new laws - those 623 (is that the number? I keep forgetting) mitzvot, or rules, were what the Talmud laid out. Animal sacrifices were not required once the temple was gone... more... - Danaa
What I am saying is that the Christians have every right to consider Christianity as they know it to have superseded Judaism, or at least the the covenant. I have no idea why anyone would consider that an issue. - Danaa
News flash----Christianity and Judaism got a divorce centuries ago because of irreconcilable differences. Obsessing over this religious corpse is too much like necrophilia. - American
We make up, edit, revise and discard religious and secular ideologies as we go along -- they are human inventions. No one is obligated to believe anything. No ideology is eternally static or free from relentless challenge and interrogation. Watch out for tyrants who try to control and censor the thinking of others on the basis of this or that authoritarian ideology. - Sean McBride
Ideologies are usually about the acquisition of political and economic power and are based on self-hypnosis and social hypnosis. They are rackets. Hocus-pocus. Psychological weapons. - Sean McBride
American -- some strains of Zionism are trying turn Christianity into a guided missile for Israel by convincing Christians that their religion is subdordinate to Judaism. That is the cynical and manipulative psychological game that is being played here. And it has been highly effective -- witness the powerful role of Christian Zionists in contemporary American culture -- especially in... more... - Sean McBride
Danaa -- excellent point -- Judaism has often itself engaged in internal supersessionism throughout its history. Human history across the board has been one long process of supersessionism. We get new insights. We revise our beliefs. - Sean McBride
Yes I know what they have done and why ------we just disagree on the extent of their influence in American culture and politics----down here in the religious South-land the CZs are considered a fringe by the mainstream religious and religions. But we can accurately say that 'fringes' are running a lot of us US politics.....but they are still 'fringes' despite that, not mainstream. - American
Why do the "liberal" New York and Hollywood mainstream media give so much prominence to Christian Zionist voices in American politics and culture? The answer should be obvious: liberal Zionists and Likud Zionists are really pushing the same agenda and are working hand in glove. They are, quite simply, Zionists. But eventually mainstream Americans may show them the exits. Americanism and Zionism are in truth radically incompatible ideologies. - Sean McBride
'' Why do the "liberal" New York and Hollywood mainstream media give so much prominence to Christian Zionist voices in American politics and culture?..Sean)........All the Media is is the ' fringes.' They present only the ' fringe voices' and pov. The mainstream American voice is not presented in the media. - American
Sean - "a guided missile for Israel" - a very well put comment. The psychological/lithurgical game being played is effectively a bullying tactic. One that, I hate to say it, but Jewish scholarly rabbis have mastered through the ages. While Christians were out and about trying to survive in war riveted, church dominated Europe, Jewish talmudic minds were busy fighting to the hilt over... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- indeed -- the skillful manipulation of words, symbols, ideologies, rhetoric, etc. -- scientific propaganda -- is usually the key to achieving political domination. And the Jewish lobby overall can run circles around the Christian lobby -- especially the Christian evangelical lobby. It is much better educated. All of those Ivy League degrees (especially PhDs) acquire and... more... - Sean McBride
Having lived as a cult for more than a thousand years, Jewish people (well, segments thereof) know how to get through to other groups locked in an isolated and inward looking ideology. Not just the millenialists but also the Mormons. Where jewish manipulation through words and reliance on first hand knowledge of the OT fails, they do not make inroads. Where there are more educated... more... - Danaa
One more thing - a case in point. If you noticed how I respond sometimes to W Jones' sincere queries and statements about, say, the prophets, I rely on the original language quite a bit. Of course, the gist of my comments is that I carry no water for those prophets as I consider their collected works to be an amalgam of rants., and as a fellow ranter, I can tell a good rant from one... more... - Danaa
Unlike others in this country, in israel you are subjected to these endless prophetic harrangues as part of your schooling, so, as one brought up secular, obviously it taxed my patience. That may explain my dismissive attitude towards prophets, one and all, but perhaps does not excuse that twinge of condescention or rank pulling that I just can't seem to avoid. It's what makes it very... more... - Danaa
I guess I am one those of ' little faith'.....not to insult the religious, I respect people's right to their religion, but i find most religious studying and ranting to be like stirring a can of worms. I am good to go with the 10 Commandments and a few other better parts but the rest of it I am not interested in at all. - American
Sean McBride
In Mideast policy debates, more and more I am curious about a single point: what endgame do you have in mind? What final status do you envision?
What end game and final status do you envision ? - American
There is a scenario that I want to happen and a scenario that I think is more likely to happen. First scenario: a fair solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is achieved and Israel settles down to a normal state of existence within established and universally recognized borders. Second scenario: Zionist maximalists continue to push for the creation of Greater Israel and trigger an explosion of violent antisemitism worldwide. - Sean McBride
Zionist maximalists have their own scenario in mind: acquire Greater Israel through military force (mostly American military force), establish Israel as one of the world's most powerful states and Jerusalem as the ideological capital of the world, while earning for all Jews worldwide the respect, love and devotion of humanity. Eventually we will figure out who is the crazy party here. - Sean McBride
Zionist maximalists don't want to be loved--they want to be feared and have people worship them because they are afraid of them. - American
Sean, you gotta be careful with your definition of 'antisemitic'. If a criminal is jewish, it's not 'antisemitic' to show hostility to this criminal. - Taxi
I have always been careful about the defnition of "antisemitic." Antisemites and Judeophobes describe all Jews collectively and individually as members of a criminal enterprise. They are easy to spot because they think Jews are the only problem in the world. It's not antisemitic to describe individuals like Bernard Madoff as criminals. It would be antisemitic to describe Madoff as an expression or symbol of essential Jewishness. - Sean McBride
But here is a huge problem that Zionism has created for Jews with regard to the issue of antisemitism. If Jewish Zionists now feel they have the right to protect the unity of a discriminatory and segregationist Jewish state, what is to prevent all other ethnic groups in the world from behaving the same way? In that kind of world Jews would not fare well in the Diaspora and would be... more... - Sean McBride
Sean...the fact is the Jews do share some traits collectively. And you are way too concerned about anti semitism and judeophobes. As long as Jews persist in ascribing all kinds of superior talents to Jews collectively then all kinds of negative traits will also be ascribed to them collectively. Trying to have only the superior Jewish claims applied collectively is ridiculous on the face... more... - American
All ethnic and religious groups share some traits collectively -- should we therefore demonize and attack them all? Why single out Jews only for this behavioral pattern? One notices in the news today that Mexican gang members burned alive 43 students -- should we use events like this to inflame anti-Hispanic hatred? - Sean McBride
It's easy to whip up hatred towards any group -- simply focus exclusively on the negative behavior of some of its members. Zionists are using this technique to fire up animosity and violence against Islam and Muslims. Works like a charm. - Sean McBride
'' All ethnic and religious groups share some traits collectively -- should we therefore demonize and attack them all? Why single out Jews only for this behavioral pattern?..Sean)........Why do you constantly single out Jews as the only ones that should be protected?----is a better question---and don't say you don't---we all see it---so whats up with that? About half of everything you... more... - American
You know Sean that you can float around in outer space saying first this and then that----but the bottom line is when a ethnic /religo group declares war on 'all others'--then it becomes 'us against them'. That is where the Jews vr the world is at now......that is where the Jews vr Americans interest is at now.....this what everything comes down to when one tribe tries to exploit and dominate another or others. Only one side can win. - American
"Why do you constantly single out Jews as the only ones that should be protected?" -- I haven't said that Jews should be protected -- individual Jews and Jewish organizations should be criticized on a principled basis when warranted. What I have said is that Jews collectively shouldn't be singled out for abuse and demonization -- unless you want to argue that Jews represent a special case among all the ethnic and religious groups in the world. Is that in fact your argument? - Sean McBride
American -- do you view Hispanics or African-Americans or Roman Catholics or Muslims as monolithic groups? - Sean McBride
'....unless you want to argue that Jews represent a special case among all the ethnic and religious groups in the world. Is that in fact your argument? - Sean McBride).....Yes it is actually. Because Jews have been entitled and given special privileges and a holocaust get out of jail free card for 70 years--during which time they have used these privileges to steal kill, wreak havoc on... more... - American
'' American -- do you view Hispanics or African-Americans or Roman Catholics or Muslims as monolithic groups? - Sean McBride).....In no way as monolithic as the Jewish Tribe. - American
Jewish nationalism has been a special problem for the past half century -- which is not a good argument for attacking and demonizing *all* Jews. German nationalism was a special problem in the 20th century, but most reasonable people do not feel that should be a justification for attacking and demonizing *all* Germans. - Sean McBride
How are Roman Catholics less monolithic than Jews? Certainly their ideology is much more monolithic than that of Jews. - Sean McBride
How are African-Americans less monolithic than Jews? Don't they engage in more monolithic voting behavior than Jews? - Sean McBride
More Jews than not swear allegiance to Jews 'only and the foreign country of Israel. African Americans do not swear allegiance only to African Americans and the foreign country of Africa. That is the difference and the bottom line. The 2000 year old 'canard' of Jews more loyal to the 'World Wide Nation or Jews'-----'the nation within a nation' is not a canard. It is true and we see it... more... - American
American wrote: "More Jews than not swear allegiance to Jews only and the foreign country of Israel." Are you sure about that? Many Jews are not emotionally involved in Israeli or Zionist politics -- perhaps even most. Almost 70% of Jews voted Democratic in the recent election. If they were militant Zionists, one would have expected them to vote Republican. - Sean McBride
But this is true: Jews as a whole have been ineffective in opposing the militant Zionism of Jewish leaders like Benjamin Netanyahu, Sheldon Adelson and William Kristol. - Sean McBride
' Many Jews are not emotionally involved in Israeli or Zionist politics -- perhaps even most. Almost 70% of Jews voted Democratic in the recent election. If they were militant Zionists, one would have expected them to vote Republican. - Sean McBride).......Prove that most Jews are not involved in supporting Israel. Because that is not what the facts say----I suggest you do as I did and... more... - American
Here is just one in the very liberal Calif---- and others are even worse in their hard line zionism for Israel---->''San Diego Jewish World San Diego Jewish World: Daily Digest Under Obama, U.S. has pivoted to Iran By Steve Kramer ALFE MENASHE, Israel &#8211;Before our very eyes, the U.S. is shifting alliances in the Middle East. For decades, American foreign policy in Read more&#8230;... more... - American
True: all the leading Jewish organizations and publications in the United States and Europe in 2014 are Zionist. - Sean McBride
So what kind of collective punishment do you have in mind to mete out? - Sean McBride
'' So what kind of collective punishment do you have in mind to mete out? - Sean McBride).....Total delegitimizing of Zionist and Jewish Israel support and Jewish politics in the US....in McCarthy like hearings on subversion and their subversive activities if necessary. Total and Complete cut off of Israel from the US. Sanctions and military force if sanctions don't work to remove... more... - American
Now you give me a reason why this not a entirely appropriate price for Jews to pay in light of the uncountable damage they have done in Palestine and what their subversion in the US has cost America and US taxpayers. And they would be getting out with a light sentence at that. - American
Your defense of the Tribe is misplaced---you would have more credibility if you stuck to pointing out the Jews who are Not for Israel instead of trying to white wash the entire tribe--the sum of those Jews is much lesser than the Jews who do support zionazism. - American
The point in punishing the zionist and zionism also being that an 'example' needs to be made of the Zionist and Zionism and Israel in order to rid the US and Palestine and the world of this 'second coming of nazism.' Delegitimize and make an example of them. - American
'' One notices in the news today that Mexican gang members burned alive 43 students -- should we use events like this to inflame anti-Hispanic hatred? - Sean McBride).....They are 'gang members'...they are not acting as a 'political party' within the Mexican government, they are not acting as a 'nation' carrying out aggression against another population----there is a big difference . - American
'' what is to prevent all other ethnic groups in the world from behaving the same way? In that kind of world Jews would not fare well in the Diaspora and would be subject to antisemitic policies -- all in the name of non-Jewish states to protect their essential cultural character and self-interest. ..sean)........There is nothing to prevent other ethnics from behaving the same way.... more... - American
One likely effect of Zionism will be to stir up militant ethnic nationalism among all other ethnic groups all around the world. If Israel is "a light unto the nations," why shouldn't all other ethnic groups follow suit using Jewish ethnic nationalism as an example and justification for expressing their own messianic ethnic nationalism? The great lesson of Zionism is, look out for your... more... - Sean McBride
Does the Mexican government (and do the Mexican people) bear any responsibility for the corruption and criminality that seem to run rampant in Mexican society? To what degree does organized crime control Mexico? - Sean McBride
The mexican government, as a whole bears a huge responsibility for what's plaguing the country. By definition governments bear responsibility for mafeasance in their countries. They are the address of record for collective grievances. The question that comes up is "what do you mean by "government"? is it everyone that holds any office? - Danaa
Aren't governments usually the products -- the natural and organic expressions -- of their peoples and cultures overall? (Unless they are under the control of other peoples and powers, of course.) Peoples usually get the governments they deserve. - Sean McBride
I think it is probably a myth that people get the governments they deserve....unless by that we mean people 'have failed to rise up' against bad governments......and have failed to pay attention to what their government was doing and in that failure given up all the power the people would normally have...and therefore suffer the consequences. - American
And Sean you cant 'liken or apply' the elements of the Zio Cult to Mexican corruption or gangs or so forth.....although corruption of governments is a integral part of zionism as it is for some organized crime in other countries. - American
American, nail on head--<<.Total delegitimizing of Zionist and Jewish Israel support and Jewish politics in the US....in McCarthy like hearings on subversion and their subversive activities if necessary. Total and Complete cut off of Israel from the US. Sanctions and military force if sanctions don't work to remove Israelis from their illegal settlements. And Israel to pay damages to Palestine as Germany has paid to Jews for 65 years of occupation and destruction. >>- American - weareone
'' The great lesson of Zionism is, look out for your ethnic self-interest. Be relentless and ruthless in pursuing it by all means available. Coordinate your ethnic resources globally in all nations to advance your agenda in competition and conflict with all other ethnic groups]..sean).......Only a hop, skip and jump from that to an American 'Shoot and Cry'.....get out of our government,... more... - American
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
A reverend sermonizes justice in Jerusalem - http://mondoweiss.net/2014...
Palestine is occupied by Israel. Al Aqsa is occupied by Israel. Can the churches in Jerusalem and throughout the land escape that same occupation? Last Sunday, Rev. Páraic Réamonn from the Church of Scotland at St. Andrews gave a sermon in Jerusalem that promised a breakthrough in the relationship between the Christian church and the Jewish state.
Ellis doesn't engage in the comments section anymore because of a flap he ha back at the beginning of his postings here. He was arguing that the PCUSA is hypocritical (implicitly antisemitic) because it doesn't do BDS against many other countries. Commenters argued with him about this and a debate arose and now he doesn't post in comments anymore. - WJones
If you can't engage in persuasive discussion and debate with the best minds among your opposition, no serious person is going to take you seriously. - Sean McBride
You can't win debates through personal attacks and verbal abuse -- in fact, that is a guaranteed way to lose them right out of the box. - Sean McBride
Ellis is a anti gentile and anti christian bigot---what does it tell you about MW that they feature him? MW may not be a gatekeeper for Israel but it is a gatekeeper for the Jewish tribe. Substitute the things Ellis as a Jew says about gentiles and Christians with a gentile or christian saying the exact same things about Judaism and Jews and MW would censor and call it anti semitic. If... more... - American
Mondoweiss has a Jewish outlook on the world in the same way that other institutions might have a Protestant, Roman Catholic, Muslim or Mormon outlook. We are all entitled to have an outlook, right? -- a set of cultural preferences and biases? And Mondoweiss is much more self-critical regarding Jewish issues than most Protestant, Roman Catholic, Muslim or Mormon publications are regarding their respective issues. - Sean McBride
Despite the fact that we all have different outlooks on the world, shouldn't we be able to find ways to cooperate? To find points of agreement while tolerating differences? - Sean McBride
I am not saying that one shouldn't express strong disagreements with aspects of Jewish culture or any other culture -- I do it all the time. But should we demonize, ostracize and even annihilate cultures that are not our own? - Sean McBride
I disagree that the MW or ellis's ' jewishness' is no different than than a catholic or christian site on the same issues of Christians or Jews or Israel or anything else. "Mainstream' Christians or Catholics are light years away from the stomach churning narcissism and racism of mainstream Jewishness. - American
Furthermore no sane person, seeing and hearing what Jews have had to say for themselves and Israel the past 12 years, would think that 'talking' to them was anything but a waste of time. They have been living on their primitive brain sets and myths for 2000 years, they aren't going to change. Whatever happens to the Jews or Israel is just going to be whatever happens...given current US corruption all anyone can do is try to minimize the damage to others when the final Jewish and Israeli blow up occurs. - American
I find it actually rewarding seeing ellis's meltdown-----all his Jewish supremest myths of Jewish morals and intelligence going down the toilet with Israel. The world sees the Jews "Jewish Self Determination" now and guess what?....they are no different than the Nazis. So ellis keeps lashing out and lashing out and wallowing in the holocaust and blaming evil others , cause his Jewish... more... - American
The message that some "anti-Zionists" keep trying to hammer home is that Jewish culture (not just Israeli culture) is destructive, narcissistic, neurotic, parasitic, predatory, racist, self-obsessed and sociopathic in its very essence, at its genetic root. How do these views differ from classical antisemitism and Judeophobia? - Sean McBride
'' How do these views differ from classical antisemitism and Judeophobia? - Sean McBride).....Don't know, don't care....Israel and the tribe *are what they are* and *are doing what they are doing* . You can keep inserting a periscope in the Jewish navel and staring into it till kingdom come.......the reality is there has been a 'Jewish problem' impacting Jews *and others* for 2000 years... more... - American
Regarding the ubiquity and persistence of antisemitism, both real and imagined: - Sean McBride
# category; accused of antisemitism; * 1. Alexander Cockburn 2. Alexander Solzhenitsyn 3. Alice Walker 4. Amnesty International 5. Andrew Bacevich 6. Andrew Sullivan 7. Arabs 8. Barack Obama 9. Bobby Fischer 10. Bobby Ray Inman 11. Britain 12. Carl Jung 13. Caspar Weinberger 14. Charles Dickens 15. Charles Lindbergh 16. Christianity 17. Christians 18. Christopher Marlowe 19. Cicero 20.... more... - Sean McBride
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. - Sean McBride
Regarding those JTA archives which you find valuable: [timeline; antisemitism > JTA > articles in; *date; *title] Fill in the slots and mine the data for the last almost 100 years. - Sean McBride
re your list, Sean, you are not implying that any of the people mentioned are anti-semites, right? to me it looks like the targets of smear campaigns, conducted, carried,out and advertised by very bad people, who happen to be jewish (cf ADL types who see anti-semite in every corner). Many on your list would qualify as the best Humanity has to offer, ethically speaking. The mere fact... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- *accused* of antisemitism -- not necessarily actually an antisemite. But it is fascinating to see that so many of the best and brightest minds throughout world history have been targets of the charge. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- I am still trying to figure this stuff out -- in process. - Sean McBride
What exactly Sean are you still trying to figure out? 1- There was a tribe in ancient days that formed around a religion. 2 It was a smaller tribe than the rest of the tribes so lost most of its battles and competitions with those tribes. 3. They explained those loses to themselves as being innocent victims of others tribes. 4. People will hang together and follow the Rabbi leaders more... more... - American
A great deal of Jewish culture has transcended this primitive tribal model -- that is where the complexity comes in. But it is true that currently primitive messianic tribalists are increasingly in the driver's seat -- dragging the entire Jewish community behind them with the greatest of ease and with no effective resistance. Perhaps this dynamic will change -- perhaps it won't. If it... more... - Sean McBride
This is the tribe's problem......>http://img.timeinc.net/time... .......and no one outside it is going to change it--- and maybe 100 out of every million may want to but that's not enough to make a difference. - American
messianic groupthink; mystical ethnic collectivism; ethnic cultism - Sean McBride
Taxi
This Is How an Academic Boycott of Israel Actually Works: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-p...
Good-foot-forward article - too many good articulations to cut an paste - just read the damn thing! - Taxi
"In closing, it is critically important to note the context in which the article was written. Of course, it is during a time when academic organizations are gearing up for their annual conventions, and many are discussing the academic boycott of Israel. But a more important context needs to be acknowledged, and that is that of the devastating, deadly, and illegal collective punishment... more... - Taxi
read the first 20 comments Taxi. Looks like the pro-apartheid guys are shilling out in force. Too bad I have no patience for HuffPo. - Danaa
On BDS, my position is clear - all out boycott of anything and everybody who comes from israel. Shun them and shame them and let them know why. If someone is academic, ignoring israel is simple - just don't collaborate and don't visit their conferences or attend their talks. no need to let anyone know. Just politely decline anything to do with that monstrous country and its genocidal citizens. - Danaa
I have said before that I dropped my own family members there. having seen what they put on their facebooks during the gaza atrocity I really don't need to interact with them. Not so long ago I visited Israel for a very brief time (had a specific reason) and "forgot' to let any of them know I was there till I got out. Then I mentioned something about the politics of the place and urged... more... - Danaa
Taxi
Hezbollah’s tactics support Israeli fear of Galilee attack: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News...
Well I don't know about you, Sean, but I can hardly wait to see them hizb hands and boots take back the Galilee from the thieving israeli scum. - Taxi
When this happens, I see dual-passport israelis fast scramming for the airport and the nutcase da'ish jews rush to jerusalem to cling to it for dear life - attempting immediately to ethnically cleanse Jerusalem from all goys including the hapless christian American tourists on their jesus pilgrimage. - Taxi
The jews are gonna get slaughtered in Jerusalem when the big shit hits the big fan. - Taxi
When will people realize that at this stage of the game, only a war in the holy land will bring on peace in the middle east. - Taxi
Without the consent of royal Arab zionists in Riyadh, israel would not have lasted a second past the first '48 war. - Taxi
If Israel were faced with the prospect of physical annihilation by invading Arab and/or Muslim forces, it would probably completely obliterate with WMDs Amman, Baghdad, Cairo, Damascus, Riyadh, Tehran, Tripoli and other cities. That is why you haven't heard Arab leaders threaten to wipe out Israel for quite a few years now -- they know the score. - Sean McBride
I never refer to any ethnic or religious groups as "scum" -- it feels very wrong to me. And I would still like to find a peaceful solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. - Sean McBride
Most Americans and Europeans want nothing to do with inter-tribal hatefests among warring ethnic and religious groups in "the Holy Land." They would love to wash their hands of all that mess. - Sean McBride
Arabs have been threatening Israel with annihilation for more than a half century now, while Israel continues to expand its borders. And look at what has happened to Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt, the PLO and other Arab players in recent years. Arab states have never been able to back up their bloodcurdling threats with effective action -- to distinguish fantasy and words from reality and... more... - Sean McBride
They certainly haven't beat hizbollah - ever! Hizbollah has actually already taken land back from israel - and they'll do more of it when the right time comes. - Taxi
Smart players are quick to recognize failing lines of play -- and they immediately adjust. They don't keep slogging on with the same losing lines of play, giving up more and more ground. - Sean McBride
Israel could remove Hizbollah from the board in a heartbeat -- it is just waiting for the most propitious political circumstances and moment. - Sean McBride
LOL! They sure have been trying for 25 years and haven't succeeded yet. In fact, the idf got their asses handed back to them every single time. You really don't know anything about hizb history, do you? - Taxi
BTW I don't see anything wrong with saying "israeli scum". - Taxi
The best line of play for the Palestinians is to persuade the United States and Europe to apply sufficient political and financial pressure on Israel to achieve a fair and just two-state solution -- or, failing that, a fair and just one-state solution. Violent threats play into the hands of Likud Zionists and Greater Israelists. - Sean McBride
That is where you and I differ -- I don't refer to any ethnic, religious or national groups as "scum" -- that kind of language is often a prelude to genocide. But feel free to use whatever language you like. - Sean McBride
BTW, Sean, what word would you use for the collective responsible for the latest Gaza atrocities? what about the 90% of the earstwhile citizens who not only lauded the massacres committed willy-nilly by their storm troopers, but have openly called on their facebooks and in person for even harsher death to all Palestinians who as much as dared to resist in word or action? what word would... more... - Danaa
What word would you use for the very large majority of American jews who supported the Gaza ethnocide and would really like to see more of the same (as in "why can't the palestinians just disappear")? is the washed-up word "war criminal" too light, seeing how it is ever used for anyone not white, or western or Anglo? - Danaa
The term "war criminals" works for me when it fits. And war criminals should be held to account through due process. Other terms that are often objectively descriptive: 1. ethnic fanatics 2. ethnic militants 3. ethnic zealots 4. racists 5. religious fanatics 6. religious militants 7. religious zealots 8. terrorists - Sean McBride
Sean, I can't believe that you still think the Palestinians have an ounce of a chance to get a vote in the UN, or if they do, would make any difference to israel's plans to eradicate/exterminate/kick out most of them? what "just" one state solution are you even talking about? this now is a battle for the existence of palestinians, not a state holders (( which has no chance) but as... more... - Danaa
What due process are you talking about/ the kind metted out to Cheney, wolfowitz and the rest of the neocons for visiting death, destruction and infinite pain upon the Iraqis? the justice the Obama court will experience for countless murderous drone raids? who will bring them to "justice" you? norman Finkelstein? my, you are starting to sound just lke jerry Slater, kind of holy-like? - Danaa
Danaa -- are you urging Arab and/or Muslim states to go to war against Israel on behalf of the Palestinians? What realistic scenarios do you see on the shelf? How would they unfold? - Sean McBride
unfortunately, I have to disagree with Taxi a bit too. I wish Hezbollah was stronger, but it isn't. Its hands are tied just protecting lebanese residents and lending a hand to Assad's campaigns against the western - and israel's - supported terrorists who have been doing their utmost to rip Syria apart. - Danaa
Danaa -- eventually, with enough moral pressure, war crimes can be prosecuted -- not always, but often. What specific alternative policies are you proposing and how do you plan to achieve them? - Sean McBride
i am urging nothing other than (1) continued use of words such as scum, brute and criminal mafioso, where appropriate. If it applies to a majority of a given people, in israel or abroad, so be it. (2) Much stronger BDS where everything and anyone from israel are boycotted, to the point of not even shaking hands (Unless of course it's someone we know is a really really good guy. Like... more... - Danaa
Sean, you accuse others - like taxci - of visiting in a dreamworld/ I wonder sometimes what world are you living in? you know, eventually the Indians got to be left alone too - after the majority of their people, the best and the brightest, got exterminated. is your concern with your skin perhaps, seeing how you own this feed, which like most others is scanned for "harshness" or advocates for justice by whatever means... - Danaa
Pro-Israel activists won't be the least impressed by name-calling -- they can dish it out with much greater ferocity than their opponents. BDS is the only practical way forward -- it may or may not work. - Sean McBride
Besides, just how many aristocrats and mandarins gave up their power willingly (OK, there's England, but more can be said on that)? - Danaa
Danaa -- please address my main point: past threats and promises by Arab states to annihilate Israel have turned out very badly for Arabs. True or not? Do you have any reason to think this situation has changed? What is the current status of Iraq, Libya, Syria and the Palestinians? - Sean McBride
pro-israel activists are basically scum, and as scum they won't be impressed by any word - high or low. They have tyheir goals, and palestinians staying alive and unsubjugated is not one of them. Who on earth cares a second about what thuggish pricks are saying? would you care to have a "civilized debate" with the ax murderer who just offed your neighbours? do you think he might be... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I am still waiting for some practical plans and scenarios -- Israelis and Zionists have been called every name in book for more than a half century now with no effect. Sticks and stones.... - Sean McBride
The Arabs are guilty indeed of issuing empty threats when they did not have the means to carry them out. Arabs were 100% within their rights to object to a foreign entity within their midst, planted by hostile and contemptous western powers and minions. Said minions including the arab despots propped up on their thrones by the colonial powers. Comeon' since when has hezbollah or other legitimate entities like them called for anything other than the right to be left alone and leave the palestinians to be? - Danaa
Anyways, i will continue to call spade a spade. just because the torrid zionist types cannot be vanquished at the moment doesn't mean we should pussy-foot around their evil deeds; or around those who support them (which is, I repeat, the majority of the so-called "Jewish community in the US, barring the few younger ones who Phil pins such hopes upon). Name calling - let it continue in gusto. - Danaa
Danaa -- I am not defending Israel or Zionism. I am questioning whether threats by Arab and Muslim states to annihilate Israel by violent means carry any weight. The historical track record should speak for itself. - Sean McBride
Violence in any case is not my gig, because I am a good student of history. No violence can ever happen without blow-back. That's the lesson the Europeans learnt the hard way. IT's America and its ill-begotten policies that need to relearn the lessons. I believe pressure is indeed the way, it's just that we have to raise the ante big time. You, Sean, don't know israelis very well. They... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- we agree. The United States and Europe will need to keep ratcheting up political and financial pressure on Israel until it moderates its policies. But the Israel lobby in both the Republican and Democratic Parties, and in the mainstream media, will do everything in its power to obstruct that pressure. Meanwhile, violent threats by Arab and Muslim states against Israel are worse... more... - Sean McBride
I am n ot saying you are defending anything. I am saying that words have power - well beyond their meaning. I am not telling arab entities to launch military campaign against israel or anything of the sort. What hezbollah is doing now is extremely wise. They should continue to play for time, as israel does its very best to destroy itself from within. the palestinians should unite behind... more... - Danaa
The two state solution is dead and buried, the one state solution is instant civil war. There is no other solution except resistance to occupation. - Taxi
israel will NEVER moderate its policies - what the heck are you talking about/ did Koresh and followers moderate their policies when surrounded? what do cults do when under existential threat? do they go all moderate? - Danaa
Sean, the israelis are unmoderatable by usa or by europe. If you can't see that they will never allow for a Palestinian state by now then you gotta surrender that 'realist badge' you so love to wear around here. - Taxi
"violent threats by Arab and Muslim states against Israel are worse..." Not after Gaza. - Taxi
To support tacxi's point - just how well exactly have the 'realists" fared in US foreign policy? do you think that Nuland/Kagan rabid neocon idiot (hey, that's unisex!) was or is on the way down? do you see any evidence that the PTB are about to live and let live with Russia? anyone been listning to Walt/ Stephen Cohen? how often has Cohen been interviewed in the MSM anyways about the... more... - Danaa
The more violence that Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians direct at Israel, the more Israel will gobble up land and consolidate its control over Greater Israel. That's my read of the situation. That has been the historical pattern for decades. There is no reason to believe that it will change. - Sean McBride
Sean, after everything you know and post here, i am surprised you can advocate for such naive policies. You say you know about power and who wields it. Have you recently been co-opted with sweet talk and/or offers perhaps? it can always happen, I know. I wouldn't be surprised if it does. It's just that you are sounding just like jerry slater. Tell tell what's been happening and just how... more... - Danaa
I just told you Sean, this pattern was broken by the hizb way back in 2000 and repeated again in 2006 but you refuse the "historic" update. Why would you underestimate the hizb when israel itself doesn't? - Taxi
israel does not give a hoot about verbal "threats" if there's no power behind them. that's why Nasrallah and people like Putin - realpolitic practicers, rarely utter threats. they just do what they need to do. leaving the chest beating and apoplectics to others. Would hezbollah be one day strong enough to execute any actual attack on israel? why would they, in any case? taxi wishes for... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I am saying that it is naive to argue that violent threats and actions by Arab and Muslim states will defeat Israel and Zionism. From the Israeli standpoint? -- bring it on -- give us more opportunities to expand and consolidate. I don't think that you are a naive person -- what precisely are we arguing about? - Sean McBride
I don't have a lotta time on the computer right now to explain and give examples, but Sean needs to go read up on every single Arab/israeli war to realize that isreal came so close to loosing every single one of them wars but for outside 12th hour intervention. In other words, they've never won anything on the battlefield off their own backs. Their wars with the hizb, where israel went in there single-handedly and lost demonstrate this. - Taxi
Danaa, I don't "wish" for war, I just see it as the only option left - so I accept it already as an inevitability. - Taxi
If war comes, that will be the final nail in the coffin for the Palestinians. That is the most probable scenario based on past trends. - Sean McBride
There's no if, Sean, war will come.. And you're mistaken, the foreigners and dual-passport colonialists will leave when the fight is taken into israel which the hizb is training for. Did you even read the article I linked in the headline? You should. The hizb is no joke. In 2006, they emptied out a third of israel - and the fight wasn't even on israeli soil. - Taxi
You do know that the hizb has 120.000 trained and ready fighters (and growing), right? 5,000 hizb fighers held back 35.000 idf soldiers (with better armory). Do the maths. - Taxi
You've placed all your eggs in one basket -- Hezbollah. But Hezbollah in an all-out, no-holds-barred war may turn out to be as effectual as the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. The next major war in the Mideast could provide Israel with the opportunity to expel many or all Palestinians from Greater Israel -- to solve "the Palestinian problem" in a decisive and permanent way. The trick... more... - Sean McBride
And you've placed all your eggs in one frayed basked - israel. The hizb, Sean, is only one of many, many other resistance groups training to expel the occupiers off their lands, including resistance groups inside of occupied historic Palestine (not just in Gaza). But your factual information on the hizb and other resistance groups and also on israel's wars is very limited - I do... more... - Taxi
Taxi -- I will be happy to compare reading lists with you on Mideast politics any time -- thousands of leading scholarly books and articles on this side. The truth is, you don't know anything about what I've read or know about the subject. I do know that Arab players have been thoroughly crushed whenever they have attacked Israel -- and that the Arab world is more divided and... more... - Sean McBride
So what books have you read on the hizb? - Taxi
Israel's military power is greater now than at any time in its history -- as is its political power in the United States. - Sean McBride
Yet the hizb still beat their freaking asses outright. - Taxi
Care to name any books you've read on the hizb? Sure doesn't sound like you've read any. That's your missing link Sean. - Taxi
# a few key authors on Hezbollah among many others 1. Amal Saad-Ghorayeb 2. Augustus Richard Norton 3. Christopher Reuter 4. Daniel Byman 5. Hala Jaber 6. Judith Palmer Harik 7. Matthew Levitt 8. Naim Qassem 9. Nicholas Blanford 10. Nizar Hamzeh 11. Sami G. Hajjar 12. Thanassis Cambanis - Sean McBride
I am going to be out for the afternoon and will then be watching the Patriots/Broncos game -- will pick this up later. - Sean McBride
You've read all these books and yet know so little? LOL Sean - get outa town!!! - Taxi
No need to pick up later. You go have yourself a good time. - Taxi
Sean McBride
# notable political ranters
1. Ben Shapiro 2. Bill Maher 3. Bill O'Reilly 4. Caroline Glick 5. Debbie Schlussel 6. Glenn Beck 7. John McCain 8. Keith Olbermann 9. Lindsey Graham 10. Mark Levin 11. Matt Taibbi 12. Megyn Kelly 13. Michael Savage 14. Michele Bachmann 15. Pamela Geller 16. Rachel Maddow 17. Rush Limbaugh 18. Sarah Palin 19. Sean Hannity - Sean McBride
Any others? - Sean McBride
I honestly don't have any respect for any of them -- with the possible exception of Matt Taibbi. And even there, I can think of much more interesting minds. - Sean McBride
Most of them are on the political right. Many of them are pro-Israel militants. Fox News harbors more ranters than any other media outlet. - Sean McBride
For some of us, ranters become tiresome very quickly. We tune them out completely. - Sean McBride
Barack Obama is the quintessential anti-ranter -- that is why I liked him from the start and continue to like him. - Sean McBride
Unfortunately, Obama is both meek and ineffectual. He could have used a few ranters in his inner cabinet. And a heck of a lot more emotion. His approval ratings speak for themselves, and it ain't just the hapless and stupidous publicans who disapprove. - Danaa
As I think back on the greatest American presidents -- none of them were ranters -- quite the opposite. - Sean McBride
Taxi
Happy to announce that I just got banned by GFTG cuz that dumb tribe couldn't handle taking a ride in my Taxi.
That bunch behaves like nasty tribal zionists then whine about their victimhood, just like the zionists do, all fucking day long, never seeing their dumb-ass hypocrisy. - Taxi
They use the good cause of Palestine to advance their stupid hate agenda against... well everybody who's not 'white'. - Taxi
The motherfuckers are the enemy within and they give good cause to zionists to attack genuine supporters of Palestine. That's why they must be insulted, assaulted and destroyed. - Taxi
I'd like to line 'em all up and kick their asses red one by one! Some of us have spent DECADES fighting for Palestine and the fuckers at GFTG are the leeches sucking up our blood on the battlefield. - Taxi
LOL! They've now made their page "private" cuz they couldn't handle my line of questioning. - Taxi
Glad I shook it all up over there. - Taxi
Let me name names here: jtfp, pepsi, chas and that little wimp todd - I will hound these fuckers wherever I may encounter them. They are 100% tribal and mean just like "the jewwwwwz" they whine about. - Taxi
I see chas likes this thread - oh looky there's a pussyshit hiding in the shadows. - Taxi
No fucking balls on that chas - but plenty of c*nt. - Taxi
Hey chas, why don't you come out from your garbage can and post your stinking defense here chickenshit?! Oh does chazy need his little deformed harem holding his hands and other organs to be to face a challenger? Clearly the fallow coward does! - Taxi
I ran circles round them all, giving them all a dose of their own medicine and the little turds couldn't handle the spinning of the flush. They even thought I was "angry" lol - little did they know that I was having a ball busting their balls lol! Not a single one of my questions was answered by the intellectually challenged dipshits! - Taxi
I can't figure out whom I hate more: nazis or zionists or zionist-nazis or nazi-zionists. E-nee-me-nee-my-nee-mo... Okay my finger's landed on GFTG, them tribe of nazi-zionists. When I say tribe, I mean that foul foursome. - Taxi
It's true: some hardcore Judeophobes and traditional white racists have attached themselves to the Palestinian cause in an exploitative and manipulative way. Not only do they not care about Palestinians, but their instinctive bigotry towards Arabs in general is probably only slightly less intense than their hatred of Jews. Palestinians provide them with an excuse to attack Jews. - Sean McBride
Regarding the importance of maintaining a certain level of civility in forums, no matter how emotional and volatile the topic -- I am reminded of the need for that all the time. Without self-restraint on all sides, it is impossible to pursue a useful conversation. - Sean McBride
Yeah I threw that at them and they had nothing to say about it - they were concerned with either passing me off as a feminist or 'friend of Sean' lol. - Taxi
GFTG is about the most obscure tribal cult that history has no time or interest in remembering. - Taxi
If you're not gonna be civil, fine, but you gotta take responsibility for that and face the consequences. I'd rather my words beat the shit out of racist assholes than have them banned. - Taxi
W.Jones - what PM? - Taxi
Who let that turd pepsi in? - Taxi
I'll add masochism as a trait to that dirty tribester pepsi. - Taxi
He's gone. - Sean McBride
PM=private message. Synonym for DM=direct message. - Sean McBride
What do you mean "he's gone", Sean? - Taxi
Hey it was fun beating up the white mossadists! - Taxi
I deleted his comments -- I've repeatedly asked him not to post here -- but he has no respect for the space of others. - Sean McBride
pepsi and his typical zionist thug behavior! - Taxi
There is no distinction between the behaviorism of nazis and zionists - no daylight between them. - Taxi
That is a point I've made many times -- all expressions of militant ethnic nationalism tend to look alike, across all ethnic groups. - Sean McBride
It really is an amazing phenomenon to observe: how identical these two opponents really are. - Taxi
Like twidledee and twidledum. - Taxi
'There is no distinction between the behaviorism of nazis and zionists' go ahead and try and get that approved on MW taxi. and if it did, you'd have half of them telling you that is ludicrous. Zionists are so much better, they'll say. - Chu_
'Not only do they not care about Palestinians...' speculation really Sean. yeah, I rarely see much concern voiced about Palestinians here either. Weareone & American seem to have genuine concern. Does Sean, Jones, or Danaa? - Chu_
I think the plight of the Palestinians is an important human rights issue -- one of many in the world. But I view Mideast politics primarily through the lens of American interests and values -- and will readily admit that without apologies. I have doubts about the sincerity and real agenda of some "pro-Palestinian activists" -- clearly they are driven more by Judeophobia than by any... more... - Sean McBride
boiling over with rage at "the Jews" -Sean not to stick a finger in your eye, but you said yourself where are the Jews in the US standing up to Zionism? I've been alert to it this last decade and I don't see much opposition. - Chu_
I think some people are more enraged and disgusted at this point, Israel's crimes have been going on for DECADES. I am certainly sick of it, and the layers of excuses were fed like cattle eating feed. - Chu_
I think there are many who speak the correct pc language with critiques or Zionism and many who don't. Jeff Blankfort doesn't follow the rules, but Justin Raimondo does. - Chu_
Zionism isn't just a Jewish issue -- many powerful non-Jewish forces have been helping to drive Zionism from its inception to the current day. And many Jews are non-Zionists or pro-Zionist without any enthusiasm or activism. Judeophobes are using Zionism as a tool to drive all Jews collectively into a corner -- it's not difficult to envision the endgame they have in mind. - Sean McBride
Sean, the theft of a whole country and the brutal subjugation of its people for the past sixty five years and ongoing isn't just a "human rights issue", it's a crime against humanity itself and you happen to be be unwittingly paying for it. - Taxi
You don't have to be Palestine crazy to note that they've been brutalized and victimized. - Taxi
I am not unwitting about the role that the United States has played in enabling Israeli human rights abuses against Palestinians. I am fully witting. We need to fix this situation by changing American foreign policy regarding Israel -- but that is extremely difficult to do. - Sean McBride
And Sean, you make it sound that the Palestine camp is brimming with skinheads - it isn't! Don't judge the movement by the standard of the fuckers at gftg. - Taxi
Most pro-Palestinian activists are sincere -- but white racists, neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates have tried to attach themselves to the cause and exploit it. One can find numerous examples of these activities on the Web. Over the years they have deluged Mondoweiss with efforts to hijack the comments section. - Sean McBride
'Judeophobes are using Zionism as a tool to drive all Jews collectively into a corner' - that's speculative statement with no proof, and how is it relevant? Got an article to prove this. I can find you lots of articles on Pro Zionists pushing Jews to side with Israel, not judeophobes. - Chu_
Check out the torrent of anti-Jewish hate speech on GFTG -- there is a mother lode of concrete proof right there. The target in the majority of posts there is not Zionists -- it's "the Jews." - Sean McBride
''Judeophobes are using Zionism as a tool to drive all Jews collectively into a corner' ' by judeophobes you mean gftg? they are driving all Jews into a corner? Not sure I agree. Take any Jerusalem Post article or of the Forward and look at the clear hatred against the 'others'. Takes one to know one. Some of the screeds that are allowed there are standard daily material. - Chu_
point being should those Jews stop reading the Jerusalem Post? - Chu_
Chu -- it's wise not to make sophistical excuses for hate speech of any kind. Simply disavow it in all instances -- and stay on a reasonable path. - Sean McBride
Chu -- your argument is that if some Jews are bigoted against non-Jews it's legitimate for non-Jews to be bigoted against Jews. Not a very enlightened point of view -- justifying bad behavior on the basis of the bad behavior of some others. I don't buy that line of thinking. - Sean McBride
It's not sophisticated excuses, but it exists. Can it all be cleaned up without moderation? People who are advocating for violence against groups is understandable, but critque of some aspect of a group is unjustified? defined [hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group. ] - Chu_
Chu -- it's simple: disavow and condemn hate speech directed against entire ethnic, religious, racial and other identity groups. Don't make excuses for it. Definitely don't traffic in it. Hate speech often leads to violent crimes -- even genocide. Reasonable and decent people understand these basic facts of life. Zealots don't -- and there is no possible way to reach their minds through... more... - Sean McBride
I think both Sean and Chu make valid points. - Taxi
Sean, if every single jew was a zionist zealot, would it be alright them to judge the whole tribe? My point is that one should not limit oneself to questioning 'only so far', but indeed every man should be free to judge both individuals and groups, and their judgement would be either valid or invalid depending on the reliability and veracity of their proofs. - Taxi
Chu, the problem with gftg is that some of the stuff they say about "the jews" is true and some of it are just downright lies aimed at demonizing. I explained to them that if they wanted to WIN a debate, every single bit of their criticism has to be based in reality and fact - otherwise they will lose the argument. - Taxi
I don't think I am unreasonable. Everyone seems to blow their top once in a while, but I don't tend to go that route. I do thinf that criticism aimed at Zionists is fair, especially since they are violently oppressing another group in Palestine, and using the US as cover. Would people be critical of S. Africa during their apartheid and say down with the regime? - Chu_
I find Chu knowledgeable, reasonable and even-tempered. - Taxi
I think criticism directed at jews is fair if it be true. - Taxi
Sean, I told you a hundred times - MOPST jews ARE biogoted and prejudicial against non-Jews, especially people of color, Arabs and non-=Westerners. Some of that prejudice is manifest, some you won't hear or see except among "friends" (the Mishpoheh, as Jon Stuart refers to it). how much of a majority is the only question worth asking. I put it at over 60% among jewish people of the... more... - Danaa
Who but a mentally ill person -- or a hasbara hack and agent provocateur -- would keep posting on a group in which he has repeatedly been asked not to post? (I am referring to pepsi.) That kind of behavior goes beyond Aspergery. - Sean McBride
I agree with Chu's point as well. And Chu, you are not being fair to me. Human Rights is ALL I care about, and that cause means the palestinian people, left, right and center. Shmuel, though jewish too, is in the same corner. It is not a comfortable one to be in, you know. Anyways, as my comment to sean above says, far be it from me to waste energy running interference for this or that... more... - Danaa
A jealous little prick would do that, Sean. - Taxi
Taxi -- even most jealous little pricks are sane enough not to degrade themselves by entering social spaces in which they are not welcome. - Sean McBride
Sean needs to find a technology fix to ban Pepsi. - WJones
Also, Chu, sometimes it's not so useful to judge someone's tru positions by their inclination to debate or lack thereof. marc Ellis's writings are of interest to me for purely theoretical reasons. I enjoy seeing my feelow humans doing their Houdini like intellectual contortions. But that interest is just that - an interest in debate, in general. If the Palestinian cause beckoned however, at any given moment I'd drop my little debate hobby like a rock and follow the action as best I can. - Danaa
Danaa -- I am fully aware of tribalist and racist streams in the Jewish tradition. That doesn't mean that I won't continue to judge Jews on an individual, case-by-case basis -- definitely innocent until proven guilty of the charge of excessive tribalism. And I will continue to treat all other groups the same way -- as sets of unique individuals. - Sean McBride
Further to Chu, since you lumped me, W jones and Sean all into one cloth. Again, not so useful, as we each clearly come from different directions and have different interests/hobbies. WJones knows much about Christian theology and biblical matters. He looks at Mrc Ellis' writings form a Christian direction, as he has often commented. That does not preclude a genuine interest and empathy... more... - Danaa
'' Most pro-Palestinian activists are sincere -- but white racists, neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates have tried to attach themselves to the cause and exploit it. One can find numerous examples of these activities on the Web"...Sean)..........I would dispute that neo -nazis and neo confeds and white racist are doing any more exploiting of I/P to use against Jews then they are doing to use... more... - American
'Does Sean, Jones, or Danaa? ' Sorry Danaa, you were going to prove my point that Sean never asked. point being - even if some people don't say they care about Palestinians, they believe it internally (hence why are so many of us here). and I was referring to some people on gftg who care about rights but don't say it. (Not to wear my heart on my sleeve, but it doesn't mean I don't care.) I used your name to lure you out also. haven't seen you round here'. - Chu_
Sean , you can treat people as you wish, individually, no problem there, I was just trying to tell you that you don't actually know what individuals may be feeling or talking about in circles of which you are not part. Do you really think that educated people (which I assume are most of the people you know) run around frothing at the mouth, airing their deeply held prejudices? No, most... more... - Danaa
Danaa, yeah, I was not serious. I think you're one of the more thoughtful people from MW. And Jonsie too, although I don't not too much about supersessionism to save my hide. Wish I could help his essay. - Chu_
no problem, Chu. Now you inspired me to ascribe you a very fine hobby indeed. Sail boats are fun! since that's what popped into my mind, I am clearly well-inclined (hey, it could have been Goth Fantasy world!). - Danaa
Further to Sean - you often mention tribes, tribalism, tribal tradition, ethnicracy and/or messianism. Thing is not all tribal currents are obvious or above ground. One almost has to have been part of a tribe to know how deep are the ties that bind. Why do you think someone like Shlomo sand is chaffing under them through this many books? he is obviously on a cataclismic fight within... more... - Danaa
Danaa, your insider critique is something that I witness moreoften than I want to living in nyc. The vibe of 'cosa nostra' and arrogance is something I don't think Sean has ever witnessed, which is why he may be so sensitive to Jewish criticism - and sure i had college profs that were Jewish and completely great people, but that is another sphere altogether. I think that unless you... more... - Chu_
Chu -- I have quite a bit of experience with New York City culture all across the board -- by boroughs, economic classes, ethnic enclaves, etc. The insularity and tribalism you describe in some Jewish neighborhoods can be found in numerous ethnic communities in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx and Staten Island -- including Jewish, Irish, Italian, Hispanic, black, Chinese, Korean,... more... - Sean McBride
Chu -- have you ever hung out in Irish South Boston or the Italian North End of Boston? Ever meet some of Whitey Bulger's associates? You want tribalism, I'll show you tribalism -- sometimes incredibly scary tribalism. But I don't stereotype any of these groups by their most aggressively ethnocentric members. - Sean McBride
American -- I have posted a great deal of material on the alliances and ideological intersections between some militant white nationalists like Anders Breivik and the EDL and some militant Zionists like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. Perhaps you didn't see those posts. But openly Judeophobic white nationalists greatly outnumber Zionist white nationalists. (And, in truth, Zionist... more... - Sean McBride
Danaa -- Roman Catholicism and Irish Catholicism, in which I was deeply indoctrinated, have powerful cult elements. I have some experience with the psychological methods and machinery involved in inducing loyalty to these cultures and belief systems -- in tightly binding young minds to them intellectually and emotionally. This isn't just a Jewish thing. Have you read much James Joyce? - Sean McBride
Sean, the North End is tame, and south Boston was hard once. I would go down there decades ago when it was trashy & dangerous. Now it's probably gentrified to the extreme. - Chu_
The stories I could tell you about those two neighborhoods -- there are still plenty of hard pockets in both of them. Charming, in a way. Certainly colorful. Push tribal buttons the wrong way and you can end up seriously messed up. - Sean McBride
Sean- you're not a southie, so let's not front. "I have quite a bit of experience with New York City culture all across the board -- by boroughs, economic classes, ethnic enclaves, etc. " Sean, this type of writing... 'you've had quite a bit of experience?' This sounds political and scripted for a campaign or something. (i.e. Jewish, Irish, Italian, Hispanic, black, Chinese, Korean,... more... - Chu_
'Roman Catholicism and Irish Catholicism, in which I was deeply indoctrinated, have powerful cult elements.' - I was going to comment on this...but I wont. - Chu_
Chu -- you have no idea of how much time I've spent in New York or how many and what kinds of interactions I've had with Jews -- it surprises me that you would jump to any conclusions about these matters on the basis of no information. But, then again, you seem to be jumping to definite conclusions about Jews in general based on interactions with some Jews, so perhaps your mind... more... - Sean McBride
Sean, with all due respect for catholics - irish and italian, a tribe they are not. As I said before, one has to have the experience of being in a cult to know what it is - from the inside out. I don't blame you for not knowing the "inside story" Sean, as it is often not visible to outsiders. There is, whatever you may think, a code, and there is networking - often on such a subtle... more... - Danaa
This much sounds positive, why not? but what I've become aware of is that there is a downside, and that there was a price to pay though none came to exact it or lay it down in words. And the price is a shared prejudice, a sense of superiority that cannot be expressed (and isn't in polite company). It's not me, you see they were helping. It's my genes. And my newly implanted memories.... more... - Danaa
And what else I have come to know is that many many non-Jews, especially perceptive ones, people not unlike Chu and America have come to understand what that exclusivity is all about. They know they will forever be "on the outside" no matter how invisible the circle is. They know how Phil Weiss is tied down, like Gulliver, by thin golden threads. Almost invisible yet effective. I only... more... - Danaa
Chu - one more element - I think that if one meets Jewish people in the technocrat circle, they will likely appear as technocrats first, and jewish somewhere way down the list. Also said technocrats are not necessarily the most effusive or cogent with words. Most of them will not even recognize their own tribalness since much will be ascribed to a sense of comfort which transcends... more... - Danaa
One more thing - none of what I say should be taken to imply that jews have any fewer good people than other groups, or, for that matter, bad people. Neither do they have more or less smart people or talented ones, or mediocre ones. As someone who came from israel I obviously got to know many more jewish people than the average person in the US even the NYC area. I can assure everyone... more... - Danaa
Point is, Sean may know some good jewish people. So do I. So what? and what does "good" mean? will they be there for you if you need them? For me, once I figured out that most of the jewish people I know - won't really be there for me should a need arise, it was the end of my dependence on their good will. In all honesty I can think of just 10 people who I think I might be able to count... more... - Danaa
These struggles for justice can be long and exhausting, even for those not directly victimized. The perpetrators of these crimes understand this and often count on divisiveness occurring among supporters of the victims, so it's important for us, as supporters with a common purpose, to remain focused on why we are here. We all have valuable and varied life experiences that shape our... more... - weareone
I don't resent the tribal "bond", Danaa, I just find it extremely dangerous to others under certain circumstances, as in the where and way israel is. I have no problems with Amazonian tribes doing their tribe thang so long as their tribalism isn't driving, facilitating and committing endless crimes against humanity. And frankly, I find tribalism boring anyway - the fishbowl of it all... more... - Taxi
Great comment, weareone. The only reason why zionism has managed to succeed this far is because they have managed to keep us divided. We are the majority, they are the minority - do the maths. - Taxi
" they have managed to keep us divided" and "do the maths"--You said it, Taxi...exactly. - weareone
Danaa, ....I have always believed, besides the obvious that all minorities tend to hang together, that the Jewish tribal bond (and general attitude toward others) came from the 'all others are enemies' belief. My amateur opinion on the tribe's feelings of inferiority and superiority is that its quite mixed up in ancient Jewish loses in fighting larger tribes and then also, my impression... more... - American
Really though, we have discussed the tribe and the zio cult to death. imo we wouldnt even be discussing the Jewish tribe if it werent for the Zionist cult and Israel. Who would care if Jews were tribal and had secret handshakes and snickered in private at others and built their own Jewish Elks lodges----probably no one----unless it became 'political' ---as it has. Anyway I don't think... more... - American
American, I think you pretty much got it. It's not just that it's tribal - so are Hindus and japanese and even Italians. Chleans hang together, as do Peruvians, all of whom view themselves as superior to Mexicans. But so what? it's when the tribal intersects the political sphere, subverting the latter to its naroow tribal interests - that's where the problem is. I was just taking on... more... - Danaa
but that's your theme too, isn't it? it's not the Elk Lodge or the Community center that bothers most of us here. It's certainly not that elusive something known as "Jewish culture" (whatever that is). IT's when the "Jewish Elk Lodge' takes charge of congress, the media and policy that it all becomes an issue. And while mere tribal flocking together can be a bit disconcerting when used... more... - Danaa
I know I'm only re0terating points you made in the past. But this needs to be pointed out over and over, ESPECIALLY to the "good" Jewish people, who are 'good' by virtue of being like any other human. Since, they belong on some level to the collective, and the collective exacts at least a vow of silence/inaction (if not more), well, that "goodness" however far it extends, becomes soiled by extension. By their silence you shall know them...... - Danaa
for some of us, jewish or israeli, all we can do is to not be silent - that's the least any of us can do. Those who can do more, hooray for them. Sean may know many "good" jewish people (as we do all). My question is - are they silent in the face of being pulled into a subversive collective? Sean isn't silent, I'll grant him that. But how many of the "Good" jewish people, which includes... more... - Danaa
So I gather, Danaa, that you don't live in occupied Palestine anymore? - Taxi
Danaa is a neat personality. It'd like to meet her sometime. - WJones
Danaa is a jewel example of integrity and smarts. If she was my neighbor I'd bake her some chocolate cookies. - Taxi
'' but that's your theme too, isn't it? it's not the Elk Lodge or the Community center that bothers most of us here. It's certainly not that elusive something known as "Jewish culture" (whatever that is). IT's when the "Jewish Elk Lodge' takes charge of congress, the media and policy that it all becomes an issue....Danaa"........Yep, exactly. The problem of, with, by, for, the Jewish... more... - American
The thing that absolutely mystifies me the most is the Anti Semite hysterics. How much this a-s screaming is believed in the J-community I don't know. But think about this---of all the canards about the Jews in the past the one most dangerous to them was the 'nation within a nation', parasite on their hosts type of charge. Now look at how the Zionist (not all Jews tbc) have been and are... more... - American
You may be missing the cabalistic dimension. - Sean McBride
^???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? - WJones
Seriously. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
In my experience, I've noticed that obscenities, insults, personal attacks, personal feuds and verbal abuse never work in online forums -- they bring intelligent and useful discussion to a crashing halt.
As a practical matter, I avoid them. - Sean McBride
Smart people quickly figure out that it is in their self-interest to steer clear of this kind of language in policy debates. The more emotional the issue, the more carefully one needs to temper one's language. - Sean McBride
Feel free to disagree and choose a different path -- but you will probably keep running into the same problems over and over again. - Sean McBride
Online communications are intrinsically a *cool* medium -- understatement is more effective than hyperbole or "hot" communications. For instance, scan Readers' Picks comments at the New York Times -- they are all invariably "cool" communications. They go down easily. Being brief and low-key is the best way to get your message across. Which doesn't mean that one shouldn't be passionate about one's beliefs. - Sean McBride
One should strive to write as well as Peyton Manning throws touchdown passes -- and he is as cool as a cucumber -- crisp, precise, balanced, focused -- no flailing, no wasted energy. - Sean McBride
Manning may also be the whitest white guy in creation :) -- apropos of nothing in particular -- just noticing. - Sean McBride
# The most effective online communications tend to be 1. brief 2. calm 3. cheerful 4. civil 5. crisp 6. diplomatic 7. fact-based 8. focused 9. on point 10. precise 11. thoughtful 12. understated - Sean McBride
When effective communicators turn up the rhetorical heat now and then, you really feel it. - Sean McBride
Is this post directed at Taxi or GFTG? - Chu_
It's not directed at anyone in particular -- just a few thoughts generally on how to communicate effectively on the Internet. - Sean McBride
Dunno Sean, I've had plenty of dirty fights online that have stimulated much, much, much conversation and learning. So I would say it all depends on the verbal acrobatic skills of the fighters. - Taxi
It works to swear up if you have a solid intellectual argument backing you. - Taxi
And if you do it in an entertaining way, you get followers and fans :-) - Taxi
But I never, ever, ever, start the dirty assault. I usually dirty it up cuz mud was thrown at me first. So really, I don't mind it one bit - though I do prefer debates t be even-tempered, especially if the topic is important. Like I said on another thread: it's okay to dirty it up if you take responsibility for the consequence. Most people just throw mud then run away. - Taxi
From my observations, the best way to respond to personal attacks is to ignore them entirely or to respond with maximum politeness and cheerfulness. The more they shout, the more you whisper. It will drive them nuts -- let them flail away and lose their composure while you keep your cool. - Sean McBride
Online debating is like logrolling -- maintain your balance and encourage your opponent to fall into the drink, if he or she is so inclined. (logrolling: a sport in which two contestants stand on a floating log and try to knock each other off by spinning it with their feet.) - Sean McBride
Lol Sean, that's a pretty funny image. - Taxi
I don't care about 'looking' cool - I care about fighting evil. - Taxi
Log rolling has been discontinued due to drought. - Eric Logan from FFHound!
You mean due to dangerous PC rapids. - Taxi
The reason that Glenn Greenwald and Philip Weiss have been so successful in achieving international influence is because they stay on an even keel -- they very rarely rant. If they were ranters, few people would have ever taken them seriously. Ranters are a dime a dozen on the Internet. It's takes much greater mental force and will power not to rant than to rant. - Sean McBride
I could rant like a motherfucker if I let myself -- it comes naturally to me. :) But eventually most of us figure out that it is not an effective way to persuade other minds to our point of view. So I take the trouble to edit myself ruthlessly. - Sean McBride
But I don't wanna be Glenn Greenwald or Philip Weiss when I grow up. - Taxi
If you don't want to be a successful communicator on the international stage -- someone who can move the needle -- that's certainly your prerogative. - Sean McBride
There's plenty of ranters and they're more famous than glenn or Phil - Bill O'reilly comes to mind. - Taxi
But Bill O'Reilly is a joke -- a clown -- among thinking people. - Sean McBride
Fox News is a confederacy of ranters. It even provides a platform for Pamela Geller, whose skills in the art of ranting are truly exceptional. - Sean McBride
All roads lead to Damascus, Sean - your way is your way and that's fine - but do you have to shove it down people's throats that your way is 'superior'? Sorta defies the point you're making. Me I could be either and I think I'm pretty good at both. When there's a need to rant then I will and when there's no need then I won't. It all depends. - Taxi
Many people think that Phil Weiss ain't all that. I ain't into pedestalling anybody on the political scene. - Taxi
You should write in whatever style pleases you. Everyone should. I am just expressing my point of view about what style of communication tends to work best in moving the needles of thought leaders. - Sean McBride
George Galloway, Russell Brand - they're kinda rational ranters and they're certainly more famous than Phil or Glenn. But yes, of course, Sean, being civil is best. - Taxi
Do you ever watch TED Talks? http://www.ted.com/ TED speakers tend to be effective communicators -- one can learn a great deal from them about style as well as content and substance. - Sean McBride
Fame, notoriety and influence where it really counts are not the same things. George Galloway and Russell Brand possess very little real political leverage. - Sean McBride
You gotta be kidding me, right?! LOL! Whatever you say, Sean. You're right about everything dude - in your own lunchtime, that is. - Taxi
Taxi -- who are your favorite political writers of all time? Why do you like them? - Sean McBride
Orwel - cuz I like animals :-) - Taxi
Well, George Orwell happens to be my favorite political writer of all time -- followed by Mark Twain. So perhaps we agree on a few matters of style. :) - Sean McBride
I'm also a fan of Matt Taibbi and Jon Stewart -- and they have mastered the art of the rant. So, yes -- ranting can be an effective political tool when exercised with skill. - Sean McBride
Matt is cool - John Steward is a fucking zionist. - Taxi
Matt's the best. - Taxi
The jews fucked with him big time. - Taxi
With Matt? - Sean McBride
Yeah - you know, the old antisemite shit was thrown at him. Google it - most of the details escape me right now but it was heavy - what they threw at him. - Taxi
Matt on Goldman Sachs in 2009: "a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." That remark scared the hell out of quite a few people. Some powerful folks have probably tagged him as a dangerous antisemite. But I think it's clear from the overall context of his writings that he isn't. - Sean McBride
Hahaha the squid quote - yeah that one! - Taxi
Unless one wants to argue that Goldman Sachs = "the Jews" -- which would be even more extreme than arguing that Benjamin Netanyahu = "the Jews" -- which of course some Zionists do. - Sean McBride
Here's what Matt thought about it at the time: http://www.alternet.org/story... - Taxi
"The most ludicrous of these, and the one that surprised me the most, is the accusation that my article was anti-Semitic propaganda. The first letter I got on this score I actually mistook for a joke sent to me by one of my friends. Then I got another one which I quickly realized was not a joke at all. “Isn’t it convenient,” it read, “that an Arab-American writer for Rolling Stone looks at Wall Street and picks the most prototypically Jewish firm around to demonize.” " - Taxi
"The last time I heard something similar was a few years ago, when Debbie Schlussel, a severely dimwitted Detroit-based right-wing pundit, railed against my supposed Arabness after I wrote an article about the Lebanese population in Dearborn, Michigan. I wrote to her to let her know that I’m actually Irish and Filipino, and not at all an Arab, but never got a response. This time the... more... - Taxi
"The evidence for these charges seems to be as follows. One, I used the word “tribe” somewhere near the end of the piece. Two, the term “blood-funnel” was used (one person also hinted that the use of a squid image was somehow anti-Semitic, but I was not entirely clear what was being referred to there). Three, I “singled out” Goldman and failed to level similar charges at “l" - Taxi
Fascinating background -- you're right about Taibbi coming under heavy attack from the usual suspects. - Sean McBride
Debbie Schlussel - now there's a zionist I wouldn't mind spending a Sunday afternoon ranting at. - Taxi
I'm glad that Matt Taibbi is a ranter. I'm glad that Hunter Thompson was a ranter. I'm glad that Jonathan Swift was a ranter. Ok -- I concede -- we need ranters -- but preferably ranters with exceptional literary talent. - Sean McBride
Debbie Schlussel -- a Pamela Geller clone -- perhaps not quite as insane, but close. - Sean McBride
All names on your list of ranters have several things in common, Sean, they all have dynamic energies, good turn of phrase and they are all utterly rational too. - Taxi
Debbie and Pamela are whores for israel. - Taxi
Nicely stated -- I agree -- energy, turn of phrase, rationality -- delivered with wit and verve. - Sean McBride
They (Geller and Schlussel) are fanatics about their narrow and *selfish* ethnic nationalist interests. Which makes them incredibly boring -- which may be the ultimate sin -- boring most of the human race to tears. - Sean McBride
I learned my debating skills from listening to my father's political intelligentsia group as a kid and from standing on a soap box at Speakers Corner in London in my youth. Speakers Corner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Taxi
Oh and my grandfather who taught me the literary classics (ugh!) and Latin (ugh ugh!!). - Taxi
Now that is an illustrious pedigree -- Speaker's Corner. I learned my debating skills by arguing with Jesuits and often beating them. - Sean McBride
I love Speaker's Corner - wish we had a place like that in LA. LOL when hell freezes over maybe! - Taxi
As a fellow ranter I must come out in favor of the useful rant. Someone needs to get emotional about bad things happening. not everyone is into debating and I doubt all that debating is useful when it comes to a focused ethnic cleansing campaign like israel's. Some people must, absolutely must, channel the rage of it all. The real disturbing fact is that so many confess "concern" and then let really bad things happen. That last one is where most jewish Americans are at. - Danaa
My biggest political influences when I was a youth were actually the Romantic poets, especially Percy Bysshe Shelley - he was a real political revolutionary. - Taxi
All the biblical prophets were basically ranters. They saw "bad stuff", got on a soap box and ranted about it. Must have had some impact, or else we wouldn't ever know of any of them. - Danaa
Make noise with mouth and people will take notice. - Taxi
Long after the "cool" debaters are forgotten, the ranters, like taibbi (who is actually extremely analytical, even if his writing style is not the dry, pedantic one favored by academic types) will be remembered, and greatly respected. - Danaa
Taibbi is a tour de force - very, very sharp mind - does not suffer fools gladly or lightly. - Taxi
Let me fine-tune my thought as expressed in the opening post of this thread. Rants occupy a distinguished position in the history of world literature, but they work best when delivered as standalone essays, poems, talks, etc. But in online discussion and debate, collisions of ranters tend to quickly descend into ugly chaos. In other words, only one ranter can command the stage at a time... more... - Sean McBride
There's a big difference between a ranter and a bombast. - Taxi
Sometimes in this horrifying world you really just have to scream -- you would be crazy not to. - Sean McBride
O'Reilly is a bombast. - Taxi
Bombast -- now Benjamin Netanyahu has mastered that style of rant. He makes me run screaming for the exits. - Sean McBride
I stopped listening to him cuz he's stuck on a loop. - Taxi
I don't think I listen eagerly to anyone from the 'news' anymore - all a buncha lying scumbags. - Taxi
Hitler was a bombast. John the Baptist was a ranter. - Taxi
Taxi
The World's 2,325 Billionaires Have These 14 Traits In Common: http://www.businessinsider.com/billion...
Hey Sean, I've put this up cuz you're so fond of lists. - Taxi
Pretty much every time I see a list now I think of Sean McBride :-) - Taxi
I'd like to affectionately nickname Sean: 'Dr. Listtt'. - Taxi
Actually, interesting article -- I didn't realize that Europe has more billionaires -- 775 -- than any other region of the world. (But the US has more billionaires than any other nation -- 571.) - Sean McBride
Lists that are machine-readable, machine-interoperable and machine-inferencable are useful for a wide variety of reasons -- especially as knowledge discovery tools. - Sean McBride
I wasn't a fan of the list, but a useful tool. just need to learn how to compare them more effectively. - Chu_
Lists are a tool for bringing order and clarity to facts -- to better understand them -- to uncover patterns and make connections in complex data. And they are the backbone of contemporary artificial intelligence, data mining and Semantic Web technologies. - Sean McBride
Mondoweiss has always appealed to me because Phil Weiss's mind is oriented around precise collections of concrete facts -- the same for Glenn Greenwald. Windy discursive opinionating interests me not so much -- once I get the point, I move on. Opinions and arguments are datapoints. - Sean McBride
"Opinions and arguments are datapoints." Interesting way to view things-not natural to me, but I'm open to learning. - weareone
phil does a lot of opinion, greenwald is more data driven. - Chu_
Without all the data that Phil wraps his opinions around, Mondoweiss would not be very interesting. Opinions are a penny a dozen. Review his posts -- they are all anchored around valuable collections of facts that are usually suppressed, censored or ignored by the mainstream media. - Sean McBride
good part is that he is an inside man in many ways. - Chu_
It is helpful to think of lists as sets in traditional set theory -- with complex set intersections one can uncover and understand the operations of barely visible or invisible social networks -- to see the real lay of the land. - Sean McBride
That tableau software seems like a very useful graphing tool/visualizer.so much - Chu_ from Android
On opinions and arguments as datapoints: once an opinion or argument has been clearly enunciated, there is no need to see it over and over again -- you've got it. What is of interest are new facts which pertain to opinions and arguments -- which tend to reinforce or undermine them. - Sean McBride
Also of interest: the number of times that an opinion or argument is expressed in the world or in certain communications channels over time -- but that boils down to a single number or trendline. - Sean McBride
For instance, the intersection of three sets: - Sean McBride
c; PNAC member+JINSA member+Washington Post writer; * // where {c; *category1+*category2+*category3; *instance} and "+" defines a boolean AND relation -- all three conditions must be true. - Sean McBride
To be able to know such things immediately, on demand, is useful. - Sean McBride
I think Phil keeps his article writing factual, he's an excellent writer, l but I don't think his 'opinions are always based on the facts---he sees what he wants to see quite often, what he wishes to believe. - American
Phil has had a much greater impact on the conversation on these issues globally than any of his detractors. He produces superior content on a regular basis -- that is incredibly difficult to do. If you doubt this, try to set up a blog or website that draws the same level of traffic and engagement. - Sean McBride
The best description of Phil's problem, the one that prevents him from 'really seeing' the Jewish problem was the one by NorthOfFortyNine June 23, 2011, 1:38 pmI ---->""At the risk of offending, I sometimes feel like Phil is saying, as though referencing a saturday morning cartoon: “Jews have special powers. Zionists use these special powers for evil. Me? I want to use them for good! To the Batmobile!” - American
Hey I just read that too - put a smile on my face. So whoever posted the gilad interview on mw, thanks - great read. - Taxi
That was indeed a great line by Northof49 - Danaa
Danaa, if you like quote about Phil you will love this one. Chris Moore posted on his site when featuring the MW-Slater vr the commenters big fight on Just War-------->'' Even though I totally disagree with Weiss' left-wing politics (which even he doesn't seem to take very seriously, anyway) guys lake Weiss make me believe there are at least a handful of semi-patriotic, America-first... more... - American
The on- going $64,000 question on what Phil really is/believes. Does it matter?---not really - American
Phil lives in inner turmoil - he knows deep down that he's a jew living a WASP life. but he's also pleasantly numbed by his golden goy life. Phil is torn between individuality and group/tribe/gang. He really prefers the 'individuality' thang (because he's comfortably numb) but there's this constantly recurring weird group/tribe/gang thing that keeps talon-clawing at his naval for... more... - Taxi
So where do I collect my $64,000 from, American? - Taxi
Hummm....we will have to crowd fund the 64K - American
Maybe Phil secretly likes WASP culture, wants to be like them. And why he writes about it a love -hate way.. But to renounce Jewish culture would be too big a treason against his upbringing and heritage.And he couldnt ever really be a WASP, only a convert, like gentile converts to Judaism. - American
I'd be gobsmacked if "we" could raise more than 64 cents lol! Just kidding kiddo. - Taxi
The American Dream was not conceptualized by jews or blacks or asians but by WASPS. Would you call this a correct statement of fact? - Taxi
For the most part, but I wouldnt say WASP (as in elites) I would say mainly European Anglo Saxons since that was the majority and what all the 'Founders' were-----one clue to that is the fact that the 'law' and legal system in the colonies was based on "Black's Law', brought over from England, where it was the basis of what we call 'Common Law'---its still the basis of the US legal system. - American
Everyone wants the American Dream, buddy. It's as far as it goes - the penultimate. Jews here are no different - they want the American Dream too. There is no such thing as the jewish dream that everyone wants. - Taxi
It's past midnight here in the sleepy hills of the Levant - g'night. - Taxi
Chu_
so why did Hostage quit? last post August 21, 2014 at 7:10 pm - Chu_
My guess? he got bored. The comment section has become too anemic for him, and that includes the zio-bots. He must have spent a lot of time putting together his analytic/legal comments, but the feed-back for quite a while now has been less than stellar. he may just have tired of repeating his points, and no doubt, he does not care much for endless debates about whether or not he is a... more... - Danaa
"neither is getting into lengthy debates with Christian theological points". I don't know that theology and Christianity was really something that is focused on at MW, other than M.Ellis' writings (against it). - WJones
Hostage I noticed has some familiarity with talmudic teachings, but he never presented himself as an expert on Jewish thought or practice. His interests were strictly the legality and machinations of Israell, its zionist friends elsewhere and the intricacies of international law. - Danaa
Another theory: he is desolate over the current state of affairs. I used to tell him that legalities are all well and good but that the antagonist, Israel, has no regard for any of those. It takes what it wants and discards the rest. perhaps Hostage came to see the sad, awful implications this has for Palestinians. may be he came to see also why BDS is really the only way to fight back.... more... - Danaa
Yes, sadly having all the legal ramifications at hand, doesn't matter to state sponsored Israeli thuggery. And while I read his comments and logical legal conclusions, his posts weren't very conversational. Sean suggested he make a wiki page of all his findings, but he said he was happy to leave the record on MW. - Chu_
Too bad MW became such a static blog. Taxi and others were reflecting on how it was so great, but the good commenters are mostly gone. - Chu_
Some possibilities for Hostage's departure: 1. boredom 2. disgust 3. despair 4. health issues - Sean McBride
When you stop to think about it, there are many more interesting ways to spend one's time than arguing about Israel's problems -- which unfortunately have become America's problems. At the center of this vortex there is really no there there -- just endless narcissistic and neurotic recursion. - Sean McBride
there are a lot more interesting things to focus on. Science, technology, arts. you name it and it's more interesting that thieving occupation and land grabs descibed as 'ensuring survival' of Jews. But Israel has become America's problem like it or not. And by ignoring it, it seems to only become a larger problem. They hold a backward ideology that pretends to be something so... more... - Chu_
'' Another theory: he is desolate over the current state of affairs. I used to tell him that legalities are all well and good but that the antagonist, Israel, has no regard for any of those...Danna) .....I liked Hostage's legal imput because I took the International Law stance from my beginning 12 years ago as how I/P should be ruled on and settled.. My only exasperation after a while... more... - American
'' When you stop to think about it, there are many more interesting ways to spend one's time than arguing about Israel's problems '.........There are other interest I'd rather spend my time on but as an American who lives in this country, and whose children and family likely intends to keep living in this country, I consider the Israel aberration in US government to be the biggest immediate and possibly far reaching threat to the welfare of US citizens and the country.. - American
Then there's the bogus argument that we are correcting history and all the bad things that happened to Jews, and the USA is the hand that will save Jews. If that be the case, why aren't we working toward helping the American Indians for a new state, because surely we've screwed them and only helped Jews throughout the last century. - Chu_
- and further where's our thanks? The Jewish state spits in the face of our leader. What's that about. - Chu_
weareone
Connecticut arm of million-strong church votes to shun occupation profiteers...http://electronicintifada.net/content...
"The United Church of Christ in the US state of Connecticut has declared its support for the Palestinian-led campaign for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel. A BDS resolution approved by delegates to the annual gathering of the church’s Connecticut conference follows similar moves by its followers in New York, Northern California and in the Central Pacific and Central Atlantic regions. As a result, church bodies have been urged to divest their holdings in companies profiting from Israeli occupation in Palestine, including Caterpillar, Motorola, Hewlett-Packard, G4S and Veolia." - weareone
"The United Church of Christ has around one million members across the US. Activists in the United Church of Christ Palestine Israel Network (UCCPIN) are scheduled to propose measures to support BDS at the church’s general synod in Cleveland, Ohio, in June next year." - weareone
"If the UCC divests from contractors with the Israeli occupation, it will be the fourth national church body in the United States to do so, following divestments by the Quaker Friends Fiduciary Corporation in 2012, the Mennonite Central Committee in 2013 and the Presbyterian Church (USA) in June this year." Also in June, a board on pension and health benefits with the United Methodist Church divested its shares in G4S, a British-Danish contractor with Israel’s prisons and occupation forces."--end quote - weareone
good news. The soil against occupation and land grabs is firming up in USA. No more zio weeds to pollute the soil. about time. - Chu_
Good! One of the biggest benefits I see to the various churches actions is that it spreads out to all their members---changes their views on Israel to what Israel really is ..it also makes them perk up and wise up when they hear our politicans spouting their support for Israel in the face of what they now know. - American
And when one takes a moral stand, it may pressure the others to respond. The influence and power of churches to shift the dynamic against Israel is, imo, huge. - weareone
And it's surprising for all the talk that northerners make about being progressives, they support an apartheid Jonestown that robs the Arabs of their property. But let's continue to elect People like Chuck Shumer to office. He's a real honest guy. - Chu_
I think that Shumer may also hold dual Israeli- American citizenship. Here's a small list of other Israeli citizens who hold key US government positions. http://www.presstv.com/detail... Sean, I was wondering if you would be able to compile a more complete list that includes Congress? After a short search, I didn't come up with much that seemed complete. - weareone
wao. I know that Amb. Ron Dermer and others have to renounce their Israeli citizenship. But here's a facebook post I found [List of Politicians with Israeli Dual Citizenship] https://www.facebook.com/notes... - Chu_
sean, how do you mark this up? i.e. Mark Weinberger, dual citizen, Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs - Chu_
Thanks, Chu-I saw that list, but I was wondering if there's a way to compile an updated list. I think that one's from 2011, before the 2012 congressional elections, so it might not have all current congressional members. I'm thinking that a list would be very helpful to circulate before the upcoming elections. - weareone
wao. it should be accessible public information that our media should provide it citizens. but we all know how that goes. - Chu_
you're right---it should be public information....and we do know how that goes. I'll keep digging, when I have a moment. - weareone
Several ways to go about it: - Sean McBride
c; dual US/Israeli citizen; Mark Weinberger {c; *category; *instance} - Sean McBride
c; Israeli op+dual US/Israel citizen; Mark Weinberger {c; *category; *instance} - Sean McBride
o; Israel lobby; dual US/Israeli citizen; Mark Weinberger {o; *object; *property; *value) - Sean McBride
o; Mark Weinberger; category; dual US/Israeli citizen {o; *object; *property; *value} - Sean McBride
# features of marked up facts (semantic assertions) 1. browsable 2. combinable and recombinable with other facts 3. consistent syntax 4. consistent terminology 5. interoperable 6. machine-inferencable 7. machine-readable 8. machine-minable 9. modular 10. searchable 11. sortable 12. standalone 13. write once, use forever - Sean McBride
Thanks very much, Sean. Here's an unverified and most likely partial list, compiled from several sites, of reps in Congress with possible dual Israeli-American citizenship: House: Eliot Engel (NJ), Steve Israel (NY), Sander Levin (MI), Nita Lowey (NY), Jerry Nadler (NY), Jared Polis (CO), Jan Schakowsky (IL), Allyson Schwartz (PA), Brad Sherman (CA), Debbie Wasserman Schultz (FL), Henry... more... - weareone
weareone -- good list -- the real lay of the land. - Sean McBride
not too many surprises.... but I was expecting an even longer list. It seems that many with dual citizenship have either been defeated or chosen not to run again----a good sign hopefully. We'll see if they pop up again somewhere else..... - weareone
I don't get this wearone. Are you saying Boxer is a Dual citizen?or Feingold? that's just highly unlikely. I can believe ity about Schumer because I believe Schumer has no known boundaries to his supiness and love of power. His principles are probably limited to accepting that earth is round. Well, as long as it benefits him. Hover the years he has even assumed the look of corruptness. It's like a reverse Dorian Grey. - Danaa
Danaa, as I mentioned, this list is unverified, so these are possible dual citizens. Regarding Boxer, she doesn't seem unlikely at all to me given her history of support for Israel. Here's an excerpt from a letter to her posted Sept. 4, 2014 prepared by JVP LA and adopted by MT. DIABLO PEACE & JUSTICE CENTER stating "As people of conscience, we are deeply disappointed with your... more... - weareone
I agree with you about Schumer-, but many I-firsters try to use the progressive veneer as a cover. That just doesn't work anymore. - weareone
weareone: one could use Google to check out each of the names on that list, one by one, for dual citizenship: - Sean McBride
[# g; dual us israeli citizen * 1. al franken 2. allyson schwartz 3. barbara boxer 4. ben cardin 5. bernard sanders 6. brad sherman 7. carl levin 8. charles schumer 9. debbie wasserman schultz 10. dianne feinstein 11. eliot engel 12. henry waxman 13. jan schakowsky 14. jared polis 15. jerry nadler 16. john yarmuth 17. nita lowey 18. ron wyden 19. sander levin 20. steve israel] - Sean McBride
I plugged in five names at random from the list into this search, and it it turns out that they are all dual US/Israeli citizens. I am thinking now that they all might be. - Sean McBride
The Israeli government is using its citizens scattered all over the world to try to manipulate international politics on behalf of Israeli interests -- that much is obvious. They comprise a single political network that transcends all conventional national boundaries. - Sean McBride
And recall that Stanley Fisher, vice chair of the U.S. Federal Reserve System, is a dual citizen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Chu_
great! thanks Sean and Chu-- you're certainly much faster and better at searching than I am. Sean, I tried to search many ways, but the obvious must have escaped me, so thanks. - weareone
wao - and notice that that link above lists the top 5 contributors of their congressional campaigns. Take Barbara Boxer for example [Barbara Boxer (D-CA) Reelected against the well-funded Carly Fiorina; in the Senate since 1992. Top 5 Contributors: EMILY’s List, Girardi & Keese, University of California, Time Warner, Cotchett, Pitre &McCarthy. Top 5 Industries/Interest Groups:... more... - Chu_
and Sean, I have to ask on a complex one, if you have the time, how would you mark this up? If you can set up the framework I can fill this in. - Chu_
Wouldn't this work? {o; *object; *property; *value} - Sean McBride
o; *person; adviser; *adviser - Sean McBride
o; *person; affiliation; *affiliation - Sean McBride
o; *person; category; *category - Sean McBride
o; *person; employer; *employer - Sean McBride
o; *person; ethnicity; *ethnicity - Sean McBride
o; *person; funder; *funder - Sean McBride
o; *person; nation of citizenship; *nation - Sean McBride
o; *person; profession; *profession - Sean McBride
o; *person; religion; *religion - Sean McBride
and so on.... - Sean McBride
ok good. What would be also useful is mapping this data by graph, showing who is a consistent contributer to Pro-Israel Dual national congresspeople. - Chu_
For instance: - Sean McBride
1. sort pro-Israel funders of US Congress members by total funding - Sean McBride
2. sort US Congress members by total funding from pro-Israel funders - Sean McBride
ok. good. Here's a video of Tableu. seems like a nice visual aid for people to get the idea quickly http://www.tableausoftware.com/product... - Chu_
Creating data visualizations with tools like Tableau is easy -- the hard part is building up structured rich datasets that can be connected, mined and visualized -- that's where semantic markup comes in. Collect your facts; mark them up in a consistent and logical way; then connect, mine and visualize them. Engage in automated knowledge discovery. Extract insights from your datasets. The main objective is to understand what is going on in the real world at a detailed level. - Sean McBride
Dual Citizen - Top 5 contributors http://www.thechristiansolution.com/doc2012... - Chu_
WJones
Have any of you been successful in persuasively discussing Israeli policies with their militant supporters?
One of the more disconcerting things is that I don't see a way to persuade otherwise seemingly leftwing pro-Israeli nationalists that they should not be crushing Palestinians, who are very persistent in defending the harsh treatment. I see Palestinians, including Christian villages, suffering while America backs it, and feel helpless. Meanwhile, strong nationalists inhabit Christian forums and constantly repeat a very harsh viewpoint favoring occupation and targeting Palestinians. They don't really lay out, in my opinion, an open explanation of their motivations for their views since on other issues many of them are very left wing. They don't say, for example, "I was raised this way, this is my community and nationality, and my culture tells me to very strongly support its nationalism when it's in conflict with other groups or values." What they will say is things like the nationality was persecuted without a state, it needs its own state, there are other nation states, there are... more... - WJones
Explaining why some of those claims aren't true doesn't seem to do any good, as they will argue or ignore things ad absurdam. although they will occasional make "out of character" comparisons between Israeli policies and Jim Crow or conquering the Indians. Like Rabbi Buchdahl, they might not actually be well accepted in Israeli society because they don't belong to the correct... more... - WJones
Even if the UN imposed a 2SS, liberals in the media and politicians changed their tune like the UK parliament, or the state became more openly discriminatory and right wing, it seems like militant nationalists would still make the same arguments about how nationalism is good and <strikethrough>Palestinians</strikethrough Arabs are bad, and support efforts to take over Jerusalem and... more... - WJones
Most Zionists are irrational and highly emotional cultists -- you can't reach them through logical arguments, facts, appeals to pragmatic self-interest, the invocation of universal ethical and moral standards, etc. Zionism=messianic ethno-religious nationalism -- these folks are off in their own world -- off the reservation. - Sean McBride
Never! And I"ve been at it for 40 years! - Taxi
Agree with Sean and Taxi. I've rarely found "militant supporters" of any cause to be receptive to other people's ideas....but zionists are in a class by themselves. - weareone
My question for Phil for the Telesummit, based on his experience in years of interactions, is this: What motivates the PEPs to value militant nationalism to the exclusion of leftist values? Just saying that they are nationalist or intolerant does not explain what makes them this way, and I am afraid that it is hard to get a direct answer from them. Their first answer that Muslims are... more... - WJones
The agenda of many PEPs is transparent and consistent -- it's all about the pursuit of group interest. Liberalism is good for the group in the Diaspora; racism and fascism are good for the group in Israel. From which one must conclude that Diaspora liberalism in some cases has been bogus all along -- a Machiavellian stratagem -- a battering ram for knocking down the established powers that be (in many cases, "Euro-Christians"). - Sean McBride
The way they resolve the contradiction may be saying that normally countries should be based on separation of church/ethnicity and state, but in the case of Israel or other previously persecuted nationalities, it's necessary for security. Palestinians need to be relocated safely because their inconvenience is less important than the _existential_ safety of Israelis due to pervasive... more... - WJones
Their explanations for their self-contradictory behavior are intellectually dishonest -- useful only as specimens to deconstruct. - Sean McBride
Over the decades, I have tried the sweet-talk, the sweeter-talk, and yet the sweetest honey-drippest talk methods with ziofucks and it didn't work. Over the decades, I've submitted thousands of historic and legal documentation to back up my argument and STILL no shift in their thinking. For the past 10 years, I've mostly been using the mallet-on-head method and that doesn't seem to work either, but at least I enjoy this method so I'm sticking to it ;-) - Taxi
taxi, I only tried a couple of times before realizing that I was speaking to members of a cult, and therefore they are impervious to reason. Could reason have worked with members of the David Koresh branch davidians? does it work with certain mormon sects? probably only with those on the edge, who are already trying to get out. I spent time studying the patterns of someone like Witty,... more... - Danaa
Their fragile sense of self is completely enwound with their identification with Israel and Zionism -- without that prop, they would fall to pieces psychologically. Classical cult syndrome. When you challenge the ground of their being, they become fearful and violent -- to lose their belief system would be equivalent to dying. Thus the high level of verbal abuse and personal attacks from pro-Israel activists -- they feel intensely threatened by any questioning of their beliefs -- they are quick to lash out. - Sean McBride
Annie doesn't seem to understand what i am talking about, yet answers my questions about it at length: http://mondoweiss.net/2014... - WJones
I noticed that. - Sean McBride
Am I trying to swim in a non-viscuous fluid? I am trying to explain to her something but am incapable of it. - WJones
I try to ask her what are the motivations for PEPs, in order to understand where they are coming from, and she basically says they are hypocrites like intolerant people in America. I said OK, but why are they choosing to be that way, when they are normally liberal? Just saying that they are hypocrites or motivated by their ideas or positions in society doesn't explain why liberal people would be. - WJones
It can be taxing -- a real challenge to one's patience. - Sean McBride
Sean, is there a better way that I could phrase my question to Annie? I seem to be asking her the same thing over and over: http://mondoweiss.net/2014... - WJones
I think you've hit a stone wall with which I am quite familiar -- banging one's head bloody on it is not advised. - Sean McBride
There is an irrational subtext in these exchanges with Mooser and Annie that is impossible to discuss in a reasonable way. This is an intensely emotional topic for them. - Sean McBride
Why should it be so intense and emotional for Annie, though? Are her close friends PEPs, or what? - WJones
She hasn't been very transparent or forthcoming about that question, which has been directly addressed to her several times. - Sean McBride
How would you reword my main question to make it as clear as possible? - WJones
WJones. Give it up. There is no way you could phrase the question that will get you an answer. What I would suggest is that when wondering about PEPS, books on pasychopathology are more likely to provide you with an answer. Besides, why or how would Annie know any more than you do? She is not a PEP, after all, and isn't a member of the tribe. As for Mooser, he knows where he stands and... more... - Danaa
I'll hazard a guess and say that you asking the questions on MW may be seen as a double sword. Since the only good answer is psychological in origin, rather than political or religious or even ideological, providing it for you, the obvious answer, would only mean trouble. So, people will either state things as they are (as I do and a few others) or they'll skirt it in rder to avoid a... more... - Danaa
The other thing I'm wondering about, as I said above - why are you asking Annie? and why are you not addressing my answer(s) - which I provided several times over? stated differently, what's so difficult to understand when you are dealing with members of a culty? ever tried to have a debate with jeohova Witnesses? Jewish lib zios and right wing zios are much the same as the jehovah... more... - Danaa
Danaa, Your explanation that is that it's cult worship and self-identity wrapped up with it, a psychological problem. OK. - WJones
This time Annie repeated four times that it boils down to strong "familial" "programming" and that I should look up what "familial" means. It sounds like she is saying that it's a cultural issue. - WJones
WJ -- what Danna said -- I agree. No matter how you rephrase your questions on this issue, you are going to bang your head against the same irrational stone wall. - Sean McBride
Jones, when they talk about Palestine/Israel they almost want a different set of justice applied. Hophmi explained it once that until all the Jews are restored from the Holocaust he will continue being a fanatic. Also TokyoBK said (this year, but cant find the quote) how Jews in Israel need to feel safe and reassured, which basically supersedes Palestinian's right to self determination.... more... - Chu_
'In reality they suffer from a serious case of Israel-worship, which masks self-worship.' - right on danaa. How is it that you get it, but the other 99% of Israelis and American Zios don't? Must be the scientific analytical background I guess. I think you said you had decent parents also. - Chu_
Chu, I think that actually, many Israelis and American zios do exactly "get" it. They know where they are with the Israel issue and they know why their "hearts" are where they are. They know why they justify the murder of children and many are more than a little aware that there is a plan for a creeping ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. They know the Gazans suffer but their "hearts"... more... - Danaa
I "get" it for some of the reasons that Abigail, and Motti Peled and many other israelis and Stieglitz and 'repentant" american zios do. These reasons have much to do with a process where you find yourself looking at the tribe from the outside in. How each person came to leave the cult and try to undo the programming is, of course, unique to each of us. I wish Chu you were right, and... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- one is reminded of Alfred Hitchcock's [film; Rope; 1948] regarding the psychology in play in some instances. - Sean McBride
"tribal programming" -- noteworthy phrase -- which suggests the associated phrase "tribal deprogramming." - Sean McBride
That's a good analogy Sean. There are other analogies that are more disturbing. Like how did some of the known Nazis, who were otherwise "good" people who cared much for their own families, manage to all that aside when signing on to campaigns against Jews and other undesirables? Some of the answers to israel's collective mentality are found in the many psychological treatises written... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- we need much more scientific research into the psychological dynamics of group psychosis across all human groups -- it's a universal phenomenon, and incredibly dangerous. Human beings in the mass are capable of extreme sociopathic and psychopathic acts against other human groups. - Sean McBride
American
Max Blumenthal @MaxBlumenthal · 44m 44 minutes ago Advice for Americans who want to avoid contact with Ebola: Turn off the TV and go do some traveling.
Something I finally disagree with Max on. Although I do agree the right hypes the ebola scare for border lock down agenda. - American
However I do think we have reason to be concerned about people entering from ebola stricken regions and the examples we have seen that US hospitals are under trained in how to handle ebola cases. - American
American, none of which shortcomings justify the Ebola hysteria. Why isn't there more fear about MRS antibiotics resistant bacteria? or certain mosquito born diseases affecting huge numbers of people at any time, some of which are fatal? I just read about that Chagas virus making its way into the US from the South. There's a scary condition! - Danaa
I am actually not sure I understand the hysteria surrounding Ebola in the US. Sure it's been a devastating outbreak in West Africa and one that should have been addressed 8 months ago, before it went out of control. But one entering Ebola case and one infected nurse (so far). Does that really justify the hype? - Danaa
not really. The media turns the volume too high on certain topics. I remember this spring/summer when that plane went down going to China. CNN went on about it forever. This was their int'l story, and they have a multitude of guests on and 'analysts' speculating why. Is that story worth more than 5 weeks of coverage and speculation? :I Well, they have the megaphone so they can do... more... - Chu_
Danaa, I dont think the public is in any hysteria about ebola but the media and right wingers are certainly hyping it. That said, I dont think the US hospital system as a whole is getting the kind of training and information they need for things like ebola and many other virus making their way in due to global travel these days. I was talking about this with a friend who is a OBGYN that... more... - American
One of the funniest examples he mentioned that I know we have all seen is the 'mask' things you some times see people wear during flu season and etc...no one tells them the difference in different masks---that most of the ones you see are only good to keep you from breathing germs on others, not to prevent you breathing in germs or virus other unmasked people might be spreading. Most of... more... - American
Topics and terms that I am paying attention to with regard to Ebola: airborne, exponential, geometric, mutation, pandemic. This morning's lead stories: 1. Second Health-Care Worker Infected with Ebola in Dallas 2. WHO: Ebola cases could hit 10,000 a week 3. Ebola death rate hits 70%. A major mutation of Ebola could develop into a Black Swan event -- I'm not "chillin'" about this story. - Sean McBride
From the standpoint of scientific propaganda, hasn't the Ebola scare put a major drag on efforts by the neocons to use ISIS/ISIL to restart and escalate the Iraq War and the Long War? Most Americans are more concerned about Ebola than ISIS. Fox News can't decide whether it should be fearmongering about ISIS or Ebola -- its attention has been splintered. - Sean McBride
The media has so many fear mongering campaigns going they are like cats on hot tin roof, jumping up and down from one to the other. Whats happening though is most of the pubic gets tired of hearing it when they don't see any doomsday around them and tunes out. - American
Effective propaganda needs to focus on one fearmongering narrative at a time if you want to move the political needle -- two or more fearmonging narratives merely create confusion and generalized anxiety. - Sean McBride
[Google > ebola > Past week > Sorted by relevance https://www.google.com/search...] - Sean McBride
[Ebola Has Killed More Than 200 Doctors, Nurses, And Other Healthcare Workers Since June http://www.forbes.com/sites...] No big deal. Chill out. - Sean McBride
WJones
Danaa is an asset
Danaa, What is the real story on the Rabin assassination? - WJones
There are some things in English, but there is not that much that talks about the the different possibilities of what could have happened. Is there more in Hebrew? - WJones
Mondoweiss had a story about how there was a "Din" or some religious ceremony that took place against Rabin. Are we to think that it was just two to three people acting by themselves? - WJones
Did you know that John F. Kennedy Jr. was aggressively investigating the Rabin assassination for George Magazine when his plane went down near Martha's Vineyard? - Sean McBride
[Google; john f. kennedy jr. rabin assassination http://www.google.com/#q=john...] - Sean McBride
[Google; john f. kennedy jr. rabin assassination george magazine http://www.google.com/#q=john...] - Sean McBride
Yeah but I want to see what the Hebrew info says. - WJones
Yes I knew that. - WJones
For Rabin assassination see the film: the Gatekeepers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Chu_
Googling into the Yitzhak Rabin assassination (just the tip of the iceberg, of course): - Sean McBride
# [Google; yitzhak rabin assassination *] 1. avishai raviv 2. barry chamish 3. benjamin netanyahu 4. blanks 5. bodyguards 6. din rodef 7. ehud sprinzak 8. general security service 9. gush emunim 10. hagai amir 11. henry makow 12. incitement 13. jewish terrorism 14. john f. kennedy jr. 15. john f. kennedy jr. george magazine 16. mossad 17. murder in the name of god 18. patsy 19. shimon peres 20. shin bet 21. the gatekeepers 22. yigal amir 23. yigal amir smile 24. yoram rubin - Sean McBride
There is a line of conspiracy thinking that suspects that the same parties were behind the James Forrestal assassination, the John F. Kennedy assassination, the Robert F. Kennedy assassination, Iran-Contra, the Yitzhak Rabin assassination, the John F. Kennedy Jr. assassination, Monicagate, 9/11, the 9/11 anthrax attacks and dozens or hundreds of other connected incidents. This material is easy to Google. - Sean McBride
It sounds like guesswork. - WJones
Some of the arguments are more fact-based than others -- it depends on the analyst. - Sean McBride
You can judge for yourself regarding the material on each topic -- for instance: - Sean McBride
# [Google; john f. kennedy jr. plane *] 1. assassination 2. bomb 3. cover up 4. explosion 5. murder - Sean McBride
I meant that seeing them as part of a single organization seems like guesswork. - WJones
Some guesswork about which groups and interests are the supreme powers in the world are better than others. - Sean McBride
Barry Chamish is the only one I've seen with something coherent, and even he is pro-Israeli-aggression. From B Chamish's POV why would they want to get rid of Rabin if TPTB are pro-Palestinian? - WJones
Isn't Barry Chamish a Kahanist (or former Kahanist)? One gets the impression that he tried to divert attention from the real culprits behind the Rabin assassination -- unless you want to argue that Shimon Peres has been a Likud Zionist playing a double game by falsely presenting himself to the world as a liberal Zionist (and a leader of the two-state solution). - Sean McBride
[Wikipedia; Barry Chamish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] - Sean McBride
<<My family was forced to read front page newspaper accounts of my fictional life: I was... a follower of Rabbi Kahane (THE number one crime of the Israeli media), and worse. >> ~Chamish - WJones
Sorry WJones, I actually did not follow a whole lot of the speculation in israel at the time or later. I can tell you one thing though, from what I did see, almost all secular people in israel are absolutely convinced that the killer, wht's his name, acted on the orders of a "Fatwa" issued by his and other rabbis in Israel. Furthermore, the rabin murder sets the religious from the... more... - Danaa
One guy who is likely to know sources and will have links to stories is Richard Silverstein. Why not drop him a note and ask? say you are doing research but don't tell him you are Christian (pick a name other than Jones too). Otherwise he will be suspicious as to possible agenda or zio trolls trying to trick him into something. he has every right to be suspicious of course, as he made many enemies. IF you want I can ask him - he will reply if he has time and the material is handy. - Danaa
But you need to give me some reason for your interest. I know it can be just curiosity but Richard knows I never ask anything out of mere curiosity. - Danaa
It would show how their society works and who runs their country. With Rabin, there were a lot of people there in "pro-peace" mode, even though "pro-peace" was not exactly equal rights there. But then it has gotten to the point where 90% of them support the war on Gaza. The other thing is that if the bodyguards were involved, then it probably wasn't really just religious nuts. The use,... more... - WJones
The Gatekeepers is a series of interviews with the heads of Shin Bet. And a pivitol point they discuss is when Rabin is assassinated. Now they had to worry not about the intifadas etc (their words) but a new Jewish threat existed within that caught them off guard. Good film if you haven't seen it. - Chu_
I seen it - WJones
Another question for Danaa. What is the meaning of the Star of David? Is it just a decoration that Herzl picked up for his publications because it had been associated with his religious community for a few centuries? And did it mean anything to the rabbis centuries ago when they picked it up? - WJones
[What Is the Mystical Significance of the Star of David? http://www.chabad.org/library...] - Sean McBride
1. [Wikipedia; Star of David http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] 2. [Wikipedia; Hexagram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] - Sean McBride
WJones, I'm afraid I'm not much of an asset. I actually have no idea what the "star of david" represents. I probably learnt it once as part of all those types of lessons meant to engender patriotism and a sense of chosen-ness. Alas, it seems it went into one ear and out the other. All I'd be able to do is what Sean did - appeal to Wikipedia. I think it would probably be better to ask... more... - Danaa
BTW< for those who are interested, Oksana Boyco of RT (program "worlds apart")had a marvelous interview with Richard Dawkins. It's well worth watching. The guy, after all the debates he carried on with believers of all kinds, has definitely mellowed, but his arguments have also deepened. He came to understand that there are hopeless situations for humans where faith offers the only... more... - Danaa
Danaa, Can you let me know if you come across anything worthwhile in Hebrew on what happened to Rabin? There is not that much in English in detail the same way there is about JFK or MLK. - WJones
I did send a message to R. Silverstein asking him about this. - WJones
I'll keep an eye out - I'm sure there is a ton of stuff in Hebrew but I would need some clue as to where the good material is. - Danaa
Of perhaps greater interest: the CIA, FSB, GCHQ, MI6, Mossad, NSA, Shin Bet and Unit 8200 files on the Rabin assassination. - Sean McBride
OK, thanks. Perhaps you can search the webs for it, say for an hour or two, and describe the most interesting things you find. Namely, what is the most direct evidence that it went beyond a few loners. - WJones
<<Of perhaps greater interest: the CIA, FSB, GCHQ, MI6 files on the Rabin assassination. >> Yes. Unfortunately, there is not that much available in English online as there is on JFK and MLK. - WJones
For any situation on the planet, there is a set of people who know the most about it. Moving forward, it is going to be increasingly easy to identify those individuals using automated Big Data mining methods. - Sean McBride
Sean, can you use the automated Big data for hebrew articles? I'm sure the Mossad got its own Big data filter, but what use is it to us? and what use is it if one goes on a fishing expedition? no matter what the filters are, it is still necessary to have an idea of what exactly one os looking for, otherwise it'll take as much time to troll through forests and jungles of big data as it would through a normal search. - Danaa
i would guess that the Big Data would have to have separate compartments for each of the world's languages. After all, for what WJones may be interested in, probably only a miniscule portion of the hebrew articles on the rabin subject have been translated into common, everyday language used by most of the world, cf. English (which most hebrew speakers have a rather pathetic command thereof). - Danaa
Big Data mining and artificial intelligence can perform miracles in the realm of sifting through many terabytes, petabytes or exabytes of data across *all* languages in quest of buried strategic facts and connections that are relevant to specific situations and issues. That's what the buzz is all about on those technologies. - Sean McBride
Big Data mining and artificial intelligence is not something everyday people can have access to at the moment, I think? - WJones
There may be creative workarounds. - Sean McBride
Eg.? - WJones
The article in JFK Jr's George: http://www.nakim.org/israel-... - WJones
Develop some useful personal connections. That is how Glenn Greenwald and Richard Silverstein have proceeded. - Sean McBride
An important article -- and one which was systematically ignored by the mainstream media. JFK Jr. probably stirred up the wrath of some extremely powerful people. - Sean McBride
One of many reasons I like Friendfeed -- one can easily pick up and continue older conversations -- as in this thread. - Sean McBride
JFK Jr. could have probably won the presidency with the greatest of ease. - Sean McBride
Some Russian articles point out oddities with the official version of events, like the fact that Rabin's shirt has a hole in the front chest area even though he was on film shot from behind. But they don't seem to post what other forces were behind it. - WJones
Peres said in a movie: "Three bullets went through his heart and through the songsheet." http://www.rense.com/general... But at the hearing to show that it was only two bullets, he was asked: "Did you have a literal meaning in the number three, or did you mean it metaphoricall? PERES: Maybe. The number three has many meanings. The Holy trinity for example. Maybe I meant three... more... - WJones
weareone
Mass Media Blacks out Reports Of Israeli Crimes; the ICC Charges Kenyatta Instead of Netanyahu; and Operation Protective Edge Is Forgotten-http://www.globalresearch.ca/mass-me...
"Last month the Russell Tribunal (comprised of international law experts) announced that Israel was guilty of “incitement to genocide,” and that Israel’s long-term collective punishment of Palestinians seemed to be designed to “inflict conditions of life calculated to bring about the incremental destruction of the Palestinians as a group.” Despite that announcement of what has been obvious for decades (not short-term occupation, but long-term extermination), the International Criminal Court has maintained its usual avoidance of pursuing the big fish — like Henry Kissinger, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Tony Blair, Barack Obama, and many others including equally indictable Israeli leaders such as Benjamin Netanyahu — while concentrating on minnows like Kenya’s President Uhuru Kenyatta who became the first sitting head of state to appear before the ICC on charges of crimes against humanity for his alleged role in unleashing a wave of post-election violence during 2007-08." - weareone
"Concerned, decent, and responsible people everywhere must relentlessly demand honest and impartial media coverage of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict which must not be overlooked or forgotten until Palestinians receive justice and reparations for the decades of heinous crimes perpetrated against them by Israeli Jews; they must resolutely resist the Anglo-Zionist Political Corporate... more... - weareone
thanks. linked to that article was another good piece on how 6 corps own 90% of media (2013). No wonder it's so difficult to have balanced discussion. It's a massive media juggernaut. http://www.storyleak.com/graphic... - Chu_
Thanks, Chu. I missed that link--interesting 232 media executives control the information of 277 million Americans. As someone said, they don't call it programming and WMD (weapons of mass deception) for nothing. But here's some good news: 50% of Americans now get their news from the internet and that number increases to 71 % for the younger age ranges. This link is interesting because... more... - weareone
The great thing about web searches is how you can pursue something to almost infinite end. The worst fact about mainstream media is that they obfuscate or don't report on issues, like Israel's growing racism and violent oppression, but they can set the volume level on ebola (drowning out significant issues). Many of us left the mainstream media realm and will never go back to that... more... - Chu_
btw I added you to ff. I was looking for a comment, I thought you made about religion being a sort of mask for political issues, etc wrt Israel I believe. Saw it on my phone this weekend but cant find the thread. anyway, add me back if you can so I can search your comments. - Chu_
I agree--regulation of the internet is already being discussed and we're really going to have to fight it. .And at least, so far, it seems that internet news sites and social media are keeping the spotlight on Palestine even if it's ignored by msm. I don't remember the comment that you mention, but sure, I'll subscribe, if I'm not already. - weareone
I should be subscribed. Was this the comment?... And regarding the religious vs economic motives, at least for zionists, religion (which is a travesty for them) has been used as a cover for economic/hegemonic motives. - weareone
yes. thanks. I thought you had something linked as well. But yes, that sentence says a lot. Was religious persecution at the core of it, or was it economic exploitation that causes much of the friction? A German prop. archive I was reading last week made me think of this - the disparity of wealth. the point was made that each person had 4 times the wealth of the average German. which was seen as economic exploitation. - Chu_
Chu, weareone, I think that in discussing the past of Jewish economy and religion it's important to avoid simplifications or projections from the present (or recent past) onto the deep past. What wearone said is, about religion being a cover, is plenty true about modeern day israel and probably quite a few jewish Americans of the oligarch type. It is obvious that someone like Addelson,... more... - Danaa
I wonder if it's Chas' comment that you're thinking about. American reminded me that it was his comment that was referencing a historical perspective, I think about Germany. It also may have contained a link-I'd have to check back. As I've probably said many times, to put the word zionist before any religion is an oxymoron and desecration of that religion, since zionism is defined by ethnic cleansing and genocide. That's why I said that for zionists, religion is a travesty. - weareone
The situation started to change with enlightenment as more jews came out of the Ghettos at least in terms of loosening the control of the rabbis. neworking and certain cult-like characteristics remained however which is what contributed to jewish economic rise as welll as to the resentment by others around them. - Danaa
Danaa, I'm not very familiar with that history so I defer to others on that. - weareone
Anticipating the comment by some that I am trying to take Jewish economic factors out of the equation I'll say the reverse is true. It's the darn rabbis of many centuries and the religion itself that turned into worship of dusty old pages filled with argumentation about pointless issues That I don't want to take off the hook. However people choose to look at it, Jewish history is an... more... - Danaa
wearone, you are not however wrong, IMO, to say that "for zionists, religion is a travesty". That is true for many in Israel - the secular founders for sure. Except that there arose this hard core group of the orthodox nationalists who seek to combine religion and zionism into a completely unholy, and indeed, obscene, mishmash. This process is unfortunately the one making its way through israeli culture, effectively toxifying everything it touches. - Danaa
wearone, my familiarity with jewish history through the Middle ages is, in fact, a bit shallow because while we were forced to study it ad nauseum, I had the habit of not only tuning out but walking out of the class when the utter boredom and ennui of that existence got to me. I hated and despised those old stories of the jews in the Middle Ages, and their idiotic looking pompous Rabbis... more... - Danaa
In Jewish history, say from 1200's onward were Jews often kept outside of the European realm because of their religious identity or because of economic exploitation (or a combination)? I understand this isn't a simple question. But the archive of german propaganda I read last week brought up the issue of Jews attaining 4 times the wealth of the average German. In the US there is an... more... - Chu_
Danaa, I find much to be admired in the religion of Judaism, as I do in all true religions. For several years, when I was younger, my parents joined the local Jewish community center even though we're not Jewish, and we took swimming lessons. When my parents realized what was really happening in Israel, we stopped going, but I never heard any criticism of Israel when we were there. I... more... - weareone
Danaa, everyone is robbed of something during an occupation. The aggressor or occupier, robs its citizens of their humanity by attempting to deprive them of the experience of recognizing the humanity of others. There are other individual deprivations- for you, it may have been the education you would have liked. But the occupied are deprived of their land, lives and families. imho, even... more... - weareone
I wish I could find the lost article on what archeologist discovered about the role of Rabbis in ancient days. I think it perhaps explains how the religious and economic attitudes of Jews and religious and economic attitudes toward them came together. Maybe I can give a present day example of something similar---a christian group here started a magazine, one of those free ones that are... more... - American
well, maybe they need a christian 'mezuzah'. But a big cross probably works, although not as subtle as a mezuzah. - Chu_
Aggressive tribalism breeds tribalism in others whether its racial or religious or whatever----if people are pushed to their limits they will band together to oppose the other tribes. The irony of this tribalism now affecting more groups in modern times is that "Liberalism" has mainly inspired it----the exalting of special or minority ethnics, races, victim and etc..---is now coming... more... - American
This is one thing I am most critical of in Jewish groups----not so much in black groups because they do have legitimate complaints. But the Jews have demonized the US and Europe to death even though they literally 'owe' their lives and the continued existence of Jews in the world to the US and Europe and allies of WWII. If there was a Nobel for Ingratitude they would get it. - American
aggressive tribalism is leading to neofeudalism. I may one day be lucky enough to live in Castle Soros, perhaps Castle Adelson, oneday. - Chu_
'ingratitude' you say. I was reading a few years ago in the JewishPress that America didn't do enough to save the Jews in WW2. Really ethnocentric style of writing.http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth... weiss (broken article) http://mondoweiss.net/2013... Jewish press is print is more harsh than their online content. - Chu_
If I had a dime for every speech and article by the J-H-Industry blaming the US for letting the Jews die just because they were Jews I could pay off the US national debt. One of the most galling examples I have seen was when fraud Eli Weisl was given some award and hosted at the WH and half his acceptance speech was about the guilt of the US--and the 'whole' world.. Ugh... - American
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
Deconstructing John Kerry’s address to the Gaza Donors Conference - http://mondoweiss.net/2014...
John Kerry's address to the Gaza Donors Conference in Cairo on Sunday was remarkably vacant, if not disingenuous. Reading through Kerry’s address paragraph by paragraph is an exercise in futility. Yet the political ramifications are extreme. Everyone knows that after the Gaza war a profound reckoning is needed. Yet John Kerry – and the Gaza Donors Conference - isn’t even clos
I am still baffled why Israelis and Zionists feel that they can continue their occupation and apartheid without reprisal. - Chu_
Because they are the Jewish chosen and we are ignorant goys and others?---would be my guess - American
Kerry and et al----Walking Dead----left with only a primitive brain stem that propels them to constantly mindlessly search for zionist political money to feed themselves. - American
Whenever John Kerry has tried to challenge the Israeli government, he has been massively and brutally battered by the Israel lobby. - Sean McBride
Sometimes I need to be reminded how special they are. Thanks for the reminder - must return to toil. 'I wanna pull my brain stem out and unplug myself' :D https://www.youtube.com/watch... - Chu_
Kerry's address in one word - pathetic. A world power kow-towing to a minor Middle-Eastern thuggish warlords claiming "choseness". Well, we know it's only the money, really. Smartest things Jewish zio-americans ever did - fund the Democratic party and donate generously to academia and think tanks. Oh, and take over the media too. Except - a small voice asks - is it, was it really all... more... - Danaa
weareone
Hamas: We will not accept Judaisation of Jerusalem -https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news...
"Concluding the statement, Hamas reiterated that it would not accept the Judaisation of Jerusalem and "is ready to pay any price to prevent this from happening," vowing that: "We will do all we can to purify the holy sites from the Israeli occupation. We will never recognise, under any circumstances, any political, demographic or religious changes made to the map." Hamas also called upon the nations and governments around the world to look at what the Zionists are doing in Jerusalem, asking them to take action to stop it." - weareone
good for them. keep these messianic carpetbaggers out. They are lunatics with a bible in hand. 60 Minutes did a story about King David and an Israeli archeologist 4 years ago saying he was using the bible to uncover the ancient city, which of course makes it Jewish property. Stahl is Jewish, so it came off as more ethnic racketeering to say the least. http://www.cbsnews.com/news... - Chu_
interview excerpt: ""People believe that when King David captured the city, he snuck underground through this tunnel which led him underneath the city wall, up into the city," Spielman said. Half a million tourists visit the site every year, with guides who try to bring King David to life. There's an implicit message: that because David conquered the city for the Jews back then,... more... - Chu_
note Stahl's critique sounds better on paper that through the video, but she gets to the control the narrative here, which I thought it could have been done better. - Chu_
"Ethnic racketeering" is a great term. Also, Stahl was, or still is, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... that tells us everything we need to know about her "qualifications" as a "journalist." imo, all of the talk about King David is hasbara. The simple fact is that the land was stolen from the Palestinians and it must be... more... - weareone
CFR is bad news. It's like a Jewish Frat of Rich People in the upper east side (58 East 68th Street) who seek to bend the government to their desires and group interests. They have Elliot Abrams, convicted felon, only today writing about what should be done with Gaza "Rebuilding Gaza Starts Slowly–Very Slowly"... more... - Chu_
mission statement: "The CFR promotes globalization, free trade, reducing financial regulations on transnational corporations, and economic consolidation into regional blocs such as NAFTA or the European Union, and develops policy recommendations that reflect these goals." - Chu_
see the list of Notable current council members: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... Paints a grim picture. They got people like Negraponte, Albright, Krauthammer, Poderetz, Pipes, Rubin, etc. quite the NWO exclusive party. - Chu_
That's a great graphic! Thanks. Elliot Abrams, CFR and all of the tentacles are, to turn Madeline Albright's term back on those who have earned it, "a nest of vipers." Also, Palestine has been an exemplary steward of sites sacred to many religions for thousands of years, in stark contract to the diabolical destruction of these sites by zionists. - weareone
Sean, Danaa and I talked about making a giant model of this graph all the associations and connections would be useful to comprehend. A way to see the micro, macro, and global scales would be great data. understanding the six degrees of separation and such. - Chu_
Sounds like a good idea. Could it be distributed on twitter? :) Have to run. Will check back later. - weareone
Wearone, it's quite a project, to be sure. Easy enough to start but requires substantial dedication to complete. Plus My own interests is related but somewhat divergent. I would like to build a network of Ideas, starting from the most overarching ones then branching off into the 'descendants". Four examples of what i would consider overarching ideas: Neoliberalism, Globalism, Zionism,... more... - Danaa
Anyways, it's a work in progress and the goal is to produce a pictorial representation on the "ideas" level. Chu and Sean have been very helpful providing links to different software that can help with the graphics. Once I have something I would like to connect it to the lists and the individual names they come up with. - Danaa
"I would like to connect it to the lists and the individual names..." Danaa, your idea and plan of naming the names and connecting the dots is really needed. - weareone
Emerging Semantic Web technologies provide a powerful framework for realizing this vision: check out RDF, OWL, DBpedia, Wikidata, Schema.org and related tools and projects. - Sean McBride
Thanks, Sean. I'm familiar with OWL, but not the others, so I'll check them out. - weareone
To bat around these ideas, see https://friendfeed.com/mwff-2-... Ontological engineering and semantic markup is the name of the game. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- the traditional academic domain that addresses the issues you raise is intellectual history -- the formal study of the role of ideologies in forming human civilization. - Sean McBride
Sean, that is exactly the level I am on right now. I have this feeling that clues, hetherto hidden, still lie in the forests of intersecting human ideologies. Actualy I kind of see it as type of plasma "soup", but every once in a while, a given system undergoes a "phase transition", and bingo! an ideology takes over. That is what happened, I believe, to Neoliberalism (which became the... more... - Danaa
Of course, these analogies can't be taken too far. They are only useful as insight providers. - Danaa
CFR is just a tentacle of a much larger demon. Much has been written on this, so I wish you luck in trying to condense it all. It is, as you say, a very large project. - weareone
These large projects are mostly about getting one's facts lined up in a row within well-designed ontological frameworks. They are relatively straightforward -- collect, organize, graph and analyze the data. - Sean McBride
Increasingly the most important stage in developing large analytic projects is the process of MARKING UP the data -- of assigning metadata to data. Data are only as good as their metadata. One's semantic markup and metadata are only as robust as the ontologies which frame and form them. How many people in the world can think deeply and clearly about ontological issues? -- only a few. - Sean McBride
Sean, I beg to differ here. My interest is less on the connecting of facts and data marking than on the connectivity on a dimension of ideas. For example, Spinoza's ideas may play a critical part in European Enlightenement, but not nearly as much in ithe jewish version of haskala. By the same token, Capitalism and neoliberalism connect on one level but the latter may be only one branch... more... - Danaa
So, no, this is far from a simple project and requires quite a bit of reading through books and essays, not just a collection of names and places. Eventually, I hope that once I find a way to plot the Grand Ideas multi-dimensional diagram pictorially, the next thing will be to populate it with names and lists. So this project is not exactly analytical, except in the sense that Philosophy and religion are analytical. - Danaa
Danaa -- we are actually talking about same thing with somewhat different language -- ideas, ideologies, beliefs, belief systems, etc. are all datapoints. All physical and abstract objects are datapoints that can be semantically connected in unlimited ways. I am not talking about just names and places -- the Semantic Web is about *everything*. It goes much deeper than traditional texts.... more... - Sean McBride
Ideologies and belief systems, and their complex interactions, are eminently graphable with Semantic Web methods. - Sean McBride
Looks like I'll have to invent my own "semantic" thing then. I am just not so interested in learning about formatting or collating bits of information. My own thought process is far more analog than digital. I think I'll be content to leave the detailed lists to you, while i work on my own framework. Besides, we already found (chu and you brought three to my attention) of visual presentation/graphic softwares and in fact, I already picked my favorite. I'm busy reading some books now. - Danaa
Danaa -- FYI -- the Semantic Web is bringing together and integrating a wide variety of methods, including: - Sean McBride
1. analytical philosophy 2. artificial intelligence 3. bibliometrics 4. citation analysis 5. cognitive computing 6. cognitive science 7. computational linguistics 8. content analysis 9. corpus linguistics 10. deep learning 11. discourse analysis 12. intellectual history 13. linguistics 14. literary theory 15. machine learning 16. machine translation 17. mathematical linguistics 18.... more... - Sean McBride
Reading, understanding and connecting *all the texts in the world in all languages* (including all the books and periodicals) is just the tip of the iceberg. In this domain, there are no meaningful distinctions between digital and analog. - Sean McBride
Data visualization is the pretty frosting on the cake -- it's not where the real action is. - Sean McBride
I always liked the frosting best. So do most of the people in the world. Also I like my own invented techniques. Wouldn't want to tread on others' semantic territory now, would I? but then we already know I prefer hardware to software.....and frosting, of course. - Danaa
# Semantic Web methods can be used for graphing and analyzing in microscopic detail patterns of influence in the domains of * 1. architecture 2. elite culture 3. fashion 4. film 5. furniture 6. language 7. law 8. literature 9. music 10. painting 11. philosophy 12. politics 13. popular culture 14. product design 15. religion 16. science 17. sculpture 18. technology - Sean McBride
Original semantic markup languages are interesting, but the more semantic systems can communicate and interoperate seamlessly with another, the better. Imagine the chaos and friction if we were forced to work with dozens or hundreds of incompatible versions of HTML on the Web. - Sean McBride
lingua franca - Sean McBride
Semantic web methods sound fine for those interested in them. if the domains you selected are an example of connected patterns, I must say these are tangential to my own interests. I look for other patterns, sometimes based on linguistic connections (ie, root words) and deeply rooted human needs and greeds, which beget very different grids. To each their own, I say. - Danaa
Danaa -- if you keep an open mind on this subject, and dig around in it a bit, the basic concepts may begin to click in your mind. The main objective here: to build a universal and computational metalanguage for describing the world and everything in it -- with an emphasis on universal, computational and everything. Check out the work at the [World Wide Web Consortium... more... - Sean McBride
From the standpoint of the Semantic Web, traditional texts and all other document types in all media are merely fodder for the development of a global superintelligence. This is a radically disruptive way of thinking about the world for most people. - Sean McBride
Data visualizations are only as good as the data on which they are constructed -- the data is the key thing -- and the conceptual framing of that data. - Sean McBride
Sorry, Sean, semantic web puts me into deep sleep. I think that you don't quite follow what I am after, because you keep providing lists that for me are a much lower level than what I want. If you can turn Slavoj Zizek's or heidegger's writings into a list, that might be a start. Unfortunately, the list may be 1000 pages long if one were to try and break it into bits. I keep saying you... more... - Danaa
Besides, I am not debating what has or will have a big impact on the world. I'm quite sure robotics will have a huge impact on the world, along with the big data software with which they will be equipped. I was only talking about what interests me, one person, with a penchant for the visual arts. - Danaa
Follow your bliss. - Sean McBride
By the way, this is how I would organize semantic triples on Martin Heidegger [Martin Heidegger > semantic triples http://seanmcbride.tumblr.com/post...] One could visualize this data in many creative ways, but I am more interested in the raw data than the visualizations. - Sean McBride
I like these data models, I just need to get into them more and they can always be reinterpreted to visual data that is easy for the common person to review. Also, It's another way of seeing relationships in the abstract. And who knows you may even find an interesting bit that no one else has uncovered or overlooked. I am reminded of when that Aussie amateur astronomer founded a scar in... more... - Chu_
Sean McBride
Zionism: The God that Failed
How will Zionists react when they realize that Zionism, like communism, is yet another God that failed? A false messianic ideology? - Sean McBride
It didn't fail yet. - WJones
Many of them will pretend never to have had any association with Zionism. Zionism -- what's that? - Sean McBride
[Wikipedia; The God that Failed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] - Sean McBride
You make comments really fast. are you copying and pasting them in? - WJones
Communism hadn't yet failed when "The God that Failed" was published in 1949 -- but the eventual and inevitable outcome was obvious to astute observers. - Sean McBride
I think fast and type fast -- very fast. (That is why I find the Mondoweiss comment interface to be unbearable.) - Sean McBride
Many Zionists have claimed that Zionism is literally God's special project -- which will make its fall exceptionally precipitous. - Sean McBride
WJones -- I *do* compose and edit all my comments in my streaming notebook/journal -- and then copy and paste them into Web forums. That gives me a full backup of all my writing (including comments) in local files (which in turn are backed up to the cloud). - Sean McBride
Regarding marked up links (like the Wikipedia link just above) -- one-keypress macros create them all, with very little typing. - Sean McBride
Regarding the lists: it takes just a few seconds to pull them up and filter and sort them any which way. - Sean McBride
Regarding turning up noteworthy news items with minimum effort: services like Zite, Prismatic, Google Alerts and Twitter do the job. - Sean McBride
This is why rational people wonder if Zionism has a future: - Sean McBride
# targets of attack by pro-Israel activists in recent months 1. Barack Obama 2. Ben Affleck 3. Bruce Shipman 4. Chris Hayes 5. Europe 6. Gary Oldman 7. Gazans 8. George Galloway 9. Iran 10. Javier Bardem 11. John Kerry 12. Jon Stewart 13. Martin Indyk 14. Metropolitan Opera 15. Penelope Cruz 16. Russell Brand 17. Steven Salaita 18. Sweden 19. The Lancet 20. Turkey 21. United States 22. Zephyr Teachout - Sean McBride
Way too many enemies -- and the enemies list keeps growing. At some point you have to ask yourself -- why do I have so many enemies? Is it something I'm doing? - Sean McBride
'why do I have so many enemies? Is it something I'm doing?' - I don't think they understand the golden rule. Zionists are hypocrites in practice. They want to be coddled by the world, as they oppress and kill others. - Chu_
'' why do I have so many enemies? Is it something I'm doing? - Sean McBride)......They should ask themselves but they never will. Jewishness , in 'general' in the group, is the most extreme narcissism I have ever seen or heard of. They dont question themselves (about Jewishness) because they literally 'worship' themselves--therefore they cant be questioned. I dont think the nazis in... more... - American
There is a very good example of this type of narcissism on MW today in an article about a Rabbi exhorting Jews to love Isr......its filled with the worship of jewishness. - American
What is your WPM? Mine's 55-60, Sean. - WJones
<<Many Zionists have claimed that Zionism is literally God's special project -- which will make its fall exceptionally precipitous.>> Or they basically think that way, even if they are secular. The fall of the Temple in 70 AD was catastrophic. - WJones
In the USSR, people weren't getting more and more conservative every year like in the Israeli state. - WJones
Hypothetically we could get to the point where Netanyahu's Settler party successors will be making crazier anti-Muslim Crusader style speeches like the rightwing Rabbi in Atlanta, but in the UN. You will get the Lobby supporting still it with half of the liberal "pro-Israelis" not really caring. Then you will have more things like the Salaita affair getting attention with the academics becoming more critical. - WJones
Sean, Shouldn't there be some high-tech world political simulator that can map out how all this will play out, perhaps a simulator possessed by several agencies? - WJones
You dont need a high tech political simulator to know how Zio-dom will end. Just consult history, these things always end the same way. 'Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it'----is the truism that keeps on being proven true century after century. - American
# false messianic movements 1. Chabad-Lubavitch 2. Christian Zionism 3. Christianity 4. communism 5. Confederacy 6. Crusades 7. Frankism 8. Italian Fascism 9. Jewish Revolt against Rome 10. Maoism 11. Marxism 12. Marxism-Leninism 13. Nazism 14. Sabbateanism 15. Soviet Union 16. Trotskyism 17. Zionism - Sean McBride
[Wikipedia; Jewish Messiah claimants http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] - Sean McBride
I don't know why you think that they are going to be disillusioned just because the state has a crisis. The state collapsed for different reasons multiple times throughout history already. - WJones
Jones, what do you mean by collapsed? - Chu_ from Android
Destruction of the Temples. In 70 AD, the destruction was both internal and also external (from the Romans). Internally, there were forces fighting each other. Sadducees vs. nationalists, etc. However there were other periods of self-rule that collapsed (the Maccabees, etc.) - WJones
WJones, it's probably not going to be productive to assume that the jewish state we have now in Israel, bears all that much resemblance to states that existed before, all just because they call themselves "Jewish". The old Jewish states were very much religiously controlled, based on everything we read. The state that existed at the turn of the 1st century was a state in name only -... more... - Danaa
Since Israel of now is not like the Judea of old, and the jews of now are probably tenuous descendants of the middle eastern Jews of old, predictions based on past biblical happenings will probably not be helpful in predicting the future fate of Israel. At this point of time, Israel as it now is, is a truly unique phenomenon among the nations, and as a result I believe the fate of Zionism and israel will be unique as well - Danaa
One clue to how things may transpire in the future may come from contemplating what the modern embodiment of a "temple" is and what form it takes. It does not have to be an actual physical building. It can be a set of strong beliefs about self-identity. Example: ditching the belief in "chosenness" or, its modern version of "superiority" is difficult for jews to do because that would be... more... - Danaa
Danna---playing out all the possible political and conflict events, the nature of the zios and Israel, nature of non Jews in the world, the nature of Judaism, the nature of Christians/ the Churchs lurching both ways on Israel, the effect of world government leaders priorities waxing this way and that on Israel ---what do you see as the future of Israel? - American
That's a big question, American. So, you want me to play prophet, eh? alas I do better as a Delphic oracle.... Short of doing an extensive analysis (which would be surely unwanted) I can try and call upon an analog mode, known as intuition-tapered-by-common-sense. First, it's important not to underestimate the power of Israel and its control through lobbies and organized oligarchs in... more... - Danaa
But holding on is probably a bridge too far, so the expansionists will win. Expansion is in Israel's DNA, from its founding days so there's no reason to believe they will not continue the campaign to take over the West bank. In so doing, and in the periodic bombing of gaza they will continue to alienate increasingly influencial segments of the world, so we can expect more recognitions... more... - Danaa
I am counting on Israel going at some point a step too far at just the wrong time, which will further inflame opinion against them, possibly enough to open a sizeable gap between them and the US. There will be, I'm sure, an inflection point following which things will start to deteriorate real fast. Especially as more and more secular people will emigrate from Israel, which will make a... more... - Danaa
I can see things evolving along this direction only 10 years forward because beyond that the picture starts to get murky. Too many other things will happen in the world. Much much depends on whether the neocon plan to deepen cold war 2.0 will succeed and how Russia and the brics will hold up. There are also serious economic threats - what's a Neoliberal world based on capitalist system... more... - Danaa
All in all, though there is a finite probability (say 20%) that israel will do something really stupid that will turn America away from them decisively. However, the greater likelihood is for a slow deterioration in relationships with the US and Europe. How long this will take until the "iron clad" support for Israel suffers an irreversible "set-back" I can't predict. - Danaa
In the US, I believe that, ultimately, it is up to Americans to help erode the political system's unreasonable, and even crazy, subservience to Israel. I personally feel that too many Americans leave it up to Jewish groups and assorted church groups to lead the way out of bondage. To get through to more Americans will take concerted efforts and a really thick skin to resist the... more... - Danaa
Right now, unfortunately, I don't foresee a grand turn-around, either in the US or in israel in the near-future. Just lots more nibbling at the edges. I wish I could see things otherwise, but inertia is what it is, and I don't underestimate what inertia does to humans. Inertia, the penultimate immovable object. Strangely, whenever i try to peer 20 or so years forward I see only fog. I... more... - Danaa
So many words to say so [relatively] little. Sorry about that. - Danaa
In predicting the future, it's also a good idea to leave room for the possibility of black swan events, sudden surprises, radical disruptions and dislocations, abrupt reversals, unforeseen calamities, cultural earthquakes, subterranean tipping points, etc. -- all of which occur on a regular basis in human affairs. - Sean McBride
The nature of Black swan events is that they are NOT predictable, except perhaps as intuitive leaps. My analysis looking only 10 years forward is decidedly resting on the assumption that there are no quantum disruptions, which, of course, I can't foresee, by definition. The longer the time period looking forward to the future, the greater the likelihood of unanticipated disruptions.... more... - Danaa
Sean McBride
Richard Branson: Join us & add your name to growing list calling for peace, dignity and prosperity for Palestinians and Israelis http://virg.in/lpw https://twitter.com/richard...
Uh oh -- Amalek, for sure. There is no such thing as Palestinians. - Sean McBride
"Millions in Gaza, the West Bank, Israel and many surrounding countries continue to live with the daily fear of bloodshed and violence. It is clear that the use of force will never bring about a long-term solution. Lasting peace will only be achieved through dialogue, held in a spirit of compromise. As business leaders, we stand ready to support every effort that will bring much-needed... more... - Sean McBride
Richard Branson has long been one of my admired businessmen---he's old school and ethical. Too bad there arent more of him these days. - American
I am happy to sign this but before they even get out of the gate they better realize that some force or sanctions are going to have be put on Israel or it will be the same stally- talky farce while more settlements are built that all previous efforts have resulted in. - American
Sorry to be the cynic, but something about this just didn't smell right. I found this about the Avaaz movement promoted by Branson and co: " Avaaz: The Lobbyist that Masquerades as Online Activism" http://www.globalresearch.ca/avaaz-t... February, Avaaz began a petition against the BDS Movement, a “global movement for a... more... - weareone
"Co-Signatories of Branson's current petition: Sir Ronald Cohen, Chairman, the Portland Trust; Arianna Huffington, President and Editor-in-Chief, the Huffington Post & B Team Leader; Mo Ibrahim, Founder, Mo Ibrahim Foundation & B Team Leader; Jean Oelwang, CEO, Virgin Unite; Randy Newcomb, President & CEO, Humanity United; Jochen Zeitz, Co-Chair, The B Team"...........Sir Ronald Cohen:... more... - weareone
Not surprisingly, they also advocate for a "2 state solution". We know what that means. Personally, I'm for 1S1P1V, pre-1948. - weareone
Is this the same group? - weareone
Now I am mad I was fooled by the Branson name being attached to this...my own fault for not investigating him on Israel. - American
Thanks for sharing that important information -- apparently this is yet another gatekeeping op. - Sean McBride
Don't worry...it's not your fault, American. It happens to all of us. There are just too many false flags/scams out there to keep track of them all and these people have spent their lives cultivating the art of deception. - weareone
"apparently this is yet another gatekeeping op." I guess so, Sean. There just seems to be no end to the lies and deception. - weareone
American - beware of wolf in sheep's clothing. Especially if the wolf is an Oligarch which branson is. I heard an interview Okasana Boyco did with him on RT over the Ulraine business. I found him politically naive, susceptible to the western dogma and a bit wishy-washy in a well-intentioned kind of way. My theory: oligarchs do not make good politicians. Not in the US, not in Europe and... more... - Danaa
I was inspired by that Branson interview to write (if not finish) a little essay on just that - why oligarchs can never make good politicians. That BTW was my argument against Romney and I have many examples to bolster my case, from Donald Trump to Khodorovsky to Addelson et al. - Danaa
'' I found him politically naive, susceptible to the western dogma and a bit wishy-washy in a well-intentioned kind of way....Danaa).......I think is accurate take on him--- plus his success has him living in a rarefied world removed from low down realities. And yea oligarch to oligarch is not the same game rules as Zio to Palestines. - American
Sean McBride
Conrad Hackett: US Jews are half as likely (40%) as white evangelicals (82%) to believe God gave Israel to the Jewish people. http://pewrsr.ch/NllyFK https://twitter.com/conradh...
The problem here extends well beyond "the Jews" -- this is almost more a Christian than a Jewish issue. And Christian evangelicals vastly outnumber Jews. - Sean McBride
That is misleading though. And I think the fact that they keep pointing out evangelical is telling and obvious. In my observation and investigations most Jews do support Israel *whether or not* they use the' God gave it to Jews' as a justification. For most Jews its all about ego and tribal pride---the bible is just the cherry on top. - American
The stats speak for themselves -- there is nothing misleading about them. - Sean McBride
I do agree evangelicals add to the ''propaganda crap'' --but realistically they have no political power beyond supporting candidates in their districts. - American
Obviously you are not analytical if you don't understand why its misleading. ....and why articles like this are put out. These 'plant' articles are a dime a dozen--the purpose is to throw most of the Isr heat onto the cz evangls by saying there are more crazy cz than there are Jews. Believing or not believing God gave the Jews Israel has not jack shit to do with Jewish and lobby politics on Israel or how many Jews support Israel. Its a red herring. - American
What could be more important than the fact that they vote militantly pro-Israel politicians into office? This is a democracy, right? No one twisted the arms of, say, South Carolina voters to support Lindsey Graham -- they chose to do so. - Sean McBride
Actually, many Christian evangelicals *are* crazier than many Jews -- and they bear a large responsibility for bad American Mideast policies. I don't understand why you want to give them a pass. They are supporting extremist Israeli policies on the basis of their biblical beliefs. - Sean McBride
Oh come on Sean...they vote pro Israel pols in?.....just where in the US do voters have a choice of a pro vr a con Israel politician? Have you see a politician run on a con Israel policy in the last 50 years? ALL of them are pro Israel out of the gate because they are told to be so----particularly by the parties because of campaign donors. So people dont have a choice of a pro or anti isr candidate. - American
I dont give a rats ass about the freaky cz..suit me fine if they all were put in mental institutions. So I am not giving them a pass. YOU keep trying to give the Jews 'a pass'. Wont work, so give it up, we all know that money and pressure for Israel comes from the zionist and jewish community and all their orgs and media and political tentacles - American
Christian evangelicals have played a key role in guaranteeing that American politicians who question Israeli policies never achieve any traction. They have helped lead the charge in attacking any American voices who challenge the Israel lobby. Lindsey Graham is a perfect example. Ted Cruz is another. Rick Perry is another. Think back to the Chuck Hagel hearings, in which Hagel was crucified by Christian evangelicals. - Sean McBride
Rent a brain----you want to compare a few Grahams and Cruz's to the fact that 60% of the Dems entire campaign war chests come from the Jewish groups.? - American
American -- *both* factions are critical to the success of the Israel lobby -- both the Jewish and Christian evangelical factions -- and the military-industrial complex as well, which has made a fortune from Mideast conflicts. You need to take all the factors into account. - Sean McBride
You want to compare the cs and Graham and Cruz to the Jewish Casino king putting millions upon millions into Rommey's election..to the extent that Rommey followed him like a little doggie to Israel to kiss Netanyahu's ass? Follow the f'ng money. - American
Most American christians are not evengelical: http://www.patheos.com/blogs... - Taxi
Christian evangelicals dominate the Republican Party -- and they don't need funding from Sheldon Adelson to push their militantly pro-Israel agenda. They are true believers -- Zionist ideologues. - Sean McBride
I do take all the factor into account BUT I also know where the bread crumb trail is between them all. - American
The Republican Party used to be a rational and realist enterprise -- Christian evangelicals have completely destroyed that old regime and replaced it with Christian Zionism. They are driven by ideology. Just listen to Mike Huckabee on Fox News, for instance -- he is a religious fanatic. - Sean McBride
The current campaign to fan the flames of Islamophobia on Fox News over ISIS is being spearheaded by Sean Hannity, Megyn Kelly and Bill O'Reilly -- care to guess their ethnic and religious backgrounds? And who do Hannity, Kelly and O'Reilly frequently turn to to push their Likud Zionist agenda? -- Jack Keane, Ralph Peters, Oliver North, Tony Perkins, Liz Cheney, etc. - Sean McBride
And what about the military-industrial complex -- Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Halliburton, etc.? How much wealth and political influence does it wield? How powerful were Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice in the Bush 43 administration? - Sean McBride
Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham and Mike Huckabee are all thinking about a presidential run in 2016. - Sean McBride
Acknowledging that so many of one's fellow non-Jewish Americans are militant Zionists is a bitter pill to swallow -- but one needs to deal with reality as it is before one can figure out effective methods for changing this state of affairs. - Sean McBride
The best way to counter the power of AIPAC is to convince Christian Zionists that they have been sold a bill of goods and that they have been supporting policies that have severely damaged the American interest. Turn them around and this entire dynamic will change. *How* to turn them around is the challenge. Can you imagine the political impact if Cruz, Graham, Huckabee and their fellow ideologues repudiated Zionism? - Sean McBride
The issue of the CZ is an interesting one, but I think the angle from which Sean is coming is not likely to bear fruit. The CZ's are a direct product of an American educational system where ignorance and lack of critical thinking is bolstered, despite many proclamations to the contrary. The ignorance, some fostered deliberately through churches, all encouraged and amplified by select... more... - Danaa
The place from which it is more useful to view the CZs is not hrough the Christian lens alone, but through a human lens, where fear of change begets resistance to critical thinking, which can beget instances of mass hysteria, which is what dominionism is. A case of mass hysteria that seems to persist in the American body politic for reasons that require much deeper analysis than to just call them stupid and be done with it. - Danaa
Comparing the numerical equation for jews and CZs in the US will likely lead to false conclusions. I think American realizes it though it's not an easy point to counter. Sure there are many more anti-intellectuals in America than there are intellectuals (Jewish and not). But books have been written about and much discussion taken place about the anti-intellectual kernel that seems to... more... - Danaa
I know individual evangelist people and am struck by the unbelievable dichotomy between their innate intelligence which shines through at moments, and the almost unbelievable obtuse ideas they express in the next. On one hand, a deep essential commitment to caring for the disabled and old among them; on the other complete apathy and indifference to the suffering of others not like them, be they black or white. - Danaa
Through the people I came to know - as a complete outsider of course - people who I recognize as good at heart and sound of mind - I have been researching - sort of, the points of vulnerablity to more critical thought especially about israel and the place of the Jews in it. It's not easy but here and there I detect possible areas where battles to change these people's minds could... more... - Danaa
It may sound manipulative, but that's not totally true. I really am looking for a way to get across to people who seem completely on the other side of me intellectually, religiously and spiritually. It's like there's a huge wall between us that I am trying to look through, if not actually walk over. I often do this kind of thing, and interestingly no one seems to begrudge it too much.... more... - Danaa
The rank and file CZs are mostly lower and mid lower middle class in the South---east coast to Texas--- and mostly in Texas and lower southern states. The older ones are lucky if they have a high school education---the younger ones or the ones my age are often the first in their family to go beyond high school and attend local colleges or state extension colleges. I met very few actual... more... - American
I will never forget one time about 16 years ago when a friend of mine in Virginia called and asked me if I knew anyone in Charlotte connected to a certain group that was building a 'religious resort' in the area because the daughter of a man who worked for him had moved there and gone to work for this group.. I didnt know anyone but said I would check on her. I called her and just said... more... - American
American, that was a good analysis. Where I live most of the time now there are lots of CZ's and evangelicals (hence my conversations with them). I can fully corroborate based on my own limited survey both the educational level and the feelings of inferiority just barely under the surface. These are the groups caught in the middle of disruptive technological and global shift happening... more... - Danaa
I also liked your comparison with the jews, when it comes to tribal/family ties. Indeed, I see around me far greater commitment to family bonds and traditions than I did when I lived in more cosmopolitan places. Needless to say, I also agree they will turn on dime, were they perceive it to be in their interest. The "love" of israel is not the same as "love" of israelis or "love" of Jews. It's really an extension - for them - of "love" of jesus. - Danaa
'' and they (CZs) bear a large responsibility for bad American Mideast policies..Sean).....Once again quit smoking whatever you're smoking. That is a bizarre statement. The I-dom 'power' is money and political pressure from the I-lobby and orgs. How many 'former' congressmen and senators and other insiders have to spill the beans on the I-Lobby tactics for you to accept the facts. - American
And your suggestion that the way to curb the I-influence is to convert the CZs into rational thinkers? Also bizarre, that will never happen. The CZs are as whacky as the Isr religious settlers. - American
If you want to understand the CZs Sean you need to picture them as sort of the same type of people as the Hatfield and McCoy familes......they hold onto the ideas in 'old days and old ways" where it concerns 'family and 'religion.....but they will go to war quicker over family than they will religion. - American
Sean McBride
# prominent non-Jewish Zionists
1. Allen West 2. Andrew McCarthy 3. Bill de Blasio 4. Bill O'Reilly 5. Cory Booker 6. David Vitter 7. Dennis Miller 8. Dick Cheney 9. Donald Rumsfeld 10. Donald Trump 11. Eric Schmidt 12. Franklin Graham 13. Gary Bauer 14. Geert Wilders 15. George Will 16. Glenn Beck 17. Hal Lindsey 18. Harry Reid 19. Herman Cain 20. Hillary Clinton 21. Hugh Hewitt 22. James Dobson 23. James Inhofe 24. James Woolsey 25. John Bolton 26. John Hagee 27. John McCain 28. Joseph Farah 29. Karl Rove 30. Lindsey Graham 31. Liz Cheney 32. Louie Gohmert 33. Marco Rubio 34. Mark Kirk 35. Megyn Kelly 36. Michael Gerson 37. Michele Bachmann 38. Mike Huckabee 39. Mike Rogers 40. Mitch McConnell 41. Mitt Romney 42. Nancy Pelosi 43. Newt Gingrich 44. Oliver North 45. Orrin Hatch 46. Pat Robertson 47. Peter King 48. Ralph Peters 49. Ralph Reed 50. Rick Perry 51. Rick Santorum 52. Robert Menendez 53. Robert Spencer 54. Rudy Giuliani 55. Rupert Murdoch 56. Rush Limbaugh 57. Sam Brownback 58. Samantha Power 59. Sarah... more... - Sean McBride
Any others? - Sean McBride
American -- do you see what you're up against? - Sean McBride
I am only 'up against' them because I'm not in charge of the US...if I was they would be gone...LOL You do realize dont you that in this line up most of them are not true zionist but zionist 'stooges' for the money or their careers. If the Buddhist controlled most of the US media and press and put millions into politicians then they would all be Buddhist. It the money and the lobby....its always the money or the career for 99% of them. Just accept that truth. - American
How do you determine which of the above people are "real" Zionists or "fake" (opportunistic) Zionists? Many of them are definitely authentic, true-believing Zionists. The bottom line is that collectively they wield a tremendous amount of power in American politics -- and they are not Jewish. And their power has grown greatly in recent decades. - Sean McBride
Regarding the power of Jewish/Zionist money in American politics -- there is every reason to believe that it will increase in the coming years, not decrease -- simply analyze trends on the annual Forbes billionaires list. There are no democratic means by which you can seize their wealth. - Sean McBride
Without a countervailing lobby to challenge the power of the Israel lobby in American politics, nothing is going to change. In fact, it is likely that the power of the Israel lobby will continue to increase. - Sean McBride
Quit smoking whatever you're smoking.I can assure you Cheney, Rove Palin Rubio Cain and all the other neos on there dont give a rats ass about Israel or the Jews except where they are politically useful to their own agenda. - American
And you can assure us of that on the basis of what precisely? You know the intimate details of their personal lives and private thinking? - Sean McBride
Betcha it wont over the long haul.....they will blow it. They arent smart, they do short term 'tactics, not long term "strategy" - American
Which group of "strategic thinkers" is going to effectively challenge the power of the Israel lobby? Who are they? How much wealth do they command? One would like to see some realism and pragmatism in this discussion -- not wishful thinking. - Sean McBride
And you can assure us they are true zionist based on your intimate friendships with them? I base mine on their statements and political maneuvers over the years. - American
Among the opportunists in that list above -- what factors could possibly motivate them to shift sides and oppose the Israel lobby? Why, for instance, would Lindsey Graham or Mike Huckabee reverse their views? - Sean McBride
# how to parse that list in greater detail 1. c; non-Jewish Zionist+African-American 2. c; non-Jewish Zionist+Bush 43 administration member 3. c; non-Jewish Zionist+Clinton administration member 4. c; non-Jewish Zionist+Hispanic 5. c; non-Jewish Zionist+Muslim 6. c; non-Jewish Zionist+Protestant 7. c; non-Jewish Zionist+Roman Catholic 8. c; non-Jewish Zionist+mainstream media owner 9. c; non-Jewish Zionist+mainstream media pundit - Sean McBride
I dont know that any 'group' lobby will challenge the zios. I think privately there are people who are expressing their concern over the Isr infiltration and the lobby. I do know for a fact that there are several congressmen,mine is one of them, who have banded together on the hill on this without broadcasting it. I dont think it much matters though in the end....the Zionist are bat shit crazy and they are not, despite how you would like to believe it--smart. They will cause their own demise. - American
Maybe. Maybe they will succeed in taking the United States down with them. - Sean McBride
maybe players [ "strategic thinkers"] in the US will have to force their hand. - Chu_
Politicians will only reverse their positions when the Isr shit hit the and the US and Americans get hurt because of it. OR....when some consultants tell them that the public' is turning'. Let me give you a example that doesnt pertain to Isr specifically but is an example of the public grund - American
The strategic thinkers in the American political system who are skeptical about the Israel lobby (or who oppose it) have lost the leverage by which to impose their will on the world. They lack the financial resources and organizational infrastructure to turn the tide. They have been overpowered and vanquished. This has been the pattern since the Truman administration. - Sean McBride
point taken. But where;s the power of the military? Why isn't Obama aligning with them? Surely there's more patriots there than the congress. I dunno. - Chu_
Chu -- the Israel lobby possesses vastly greater wealth than the patriots you mention. Money is power. It's that simple. - Sean McBride
i know. America represented values once, now it's a capitol dystopia. Respect is by who has more bank. They play a tight card game. But even bloomberg couldn't garner 2% in the repub straw polls years ago. They stay in the shadows using pawns like Cruz. The curtain will be pulled off one day. have hope. - Chu_
Politicians will only reverse their positions when the Isr shit hits the US and Americans get hurt in a big way because of it. OR....when some consultants tell them that the public' is turning'. Let me give you a example that doesnt pertain to Isr specifically but is an example of the public ground '.shifting'. Sen Hagan running for re election this Fall has been doing ads telling the... more... - American
And Chu is right about Isr using non jewish pawns like Cruz et al. as cover to say 'see, this non Jew leader loves Israel!". How many million of times and articles have we seen Zios claiming that 'All Americans support Israel? ' That Isr is an American value? the truth is the majority of the public pays no attention to Israel except when it acts outs like Gaza---the public really does... more... - American
But sean is correct also. What has Chuck Hagel done since he came to the Sect of Defense? Once people get into the beltway, they ignore the country and play survival politics. It's like nyc, the mindset on wall street is so competitive, people lose sight of the bigger picture. - Chu_
'' Maybe. Maybe they will succeed in taking the United States down with them. - Sean McBride) Yea they might. In many way the already have. BUT...the difference is this---the US is big enough to come back, Israel isnt and if the Jews are associated with whatever happens they are goners too. In the current climate out here in the normal public if Israel attacked Iran and Iran attacked back and the US had to go war for Israel----you would see the public become inflamed....ISIS or no ISIS. - American
ISIS btw is a Saudi and Isr created force to get the US to do just that----bomb half of Arabia. The Syria used 'chemical weapons' didnt work so now they are trying the Muslim beheader killers to get the US going. - American
Sean, your list has one of the largest cauldrons of "useful idiots" and "Oligarch hot airs" I've seen. Why is Donald Trump not on it (or did I miss it)? In Russian parlance these would be called the "Fifth columnists". It means nothing they are not Jewish. They might as well be. Probably the true zionist convictions among these shlumiels could be measured with a thimble. This is simply... more... - Danaa
I don't know why you keep trying to prove that there is some kind of a true "Zionist" element among non-Jews. There is hardly any actual zionism or more than a smidgen of "love" for israel. There's simply calculation that professing love for israel is good for their political careers. Did Chu say Capitol dystopia? well, I totally agree with that. Along with American Chu and countless... more... - Danaa
I dont know why Sean keeps trying to prove these people are true zionist either instead of self serving stooges or that there are X-millions of CZs in the US who out power AIPAC .I think he might not have enough contact with a variety of Americans to realize that, unlike we who are into this issue, the average person is basically 'indifferent' to Israel as they are to other foreign... more... - American
Donald Trump added to the list. - Sean McBride
CZ's are more of a cloak. They don't even like Jews - they want to see them converted in the 2nd coming. sure Zionists will take their Hagee donation money, but they are never gonna eat at the same dinner table unless someone brought the money filled envelope. - Chu_
It doesn't matter whether their Zionism is authentic or fake -- what matters is that they are key components of the Israel lobby, that that lobby overwhelmingly dominates the American political system, and that there is no countervailing lobby on the horizon. Opponents of the Israel lobby lack the resources to effectively express their opposition -- they continue to be massively overpowered -- as much by non-Jewish as Jewish leaders of the lobby. - Sean McBride
'' It doesn't matter whether their Zionism is authentic or fake -- what matters is that they are key components of the Israel lobby, that that lobby overwhelmingly dominates the American political system,..sean) Yea but thats not what you were saying originally. You were claiming that these stooges were true zionist--true believers. - American
At this point I am more interested in the growing opposition in the Democratic Party toward Israel than these stale CZ puddingheads. - Chu_
When Zio-Isr-dom in the US turns into a train wreck you're gonna see the opportunity stooges trying to crawl out from under the wreckage as fast as they can. - American
Many non-Jews (not just Christian Zionists) *are* Zionist true believers -- they feel an emotional attachment to the ideology of Zionism, for whatever reasons -- it captures their imagination and energizes them. That is a separate issue from whether or not they like individual Jews. Also, some of them may have Jewish family members or close Jewish friends or colleagues who predispose them to siding with Israel and Zionism. - Sean McBride
'' At this point I am more interested in the growing opposition in the Democratic Party toward Israel than these stale CZ puddingheads. - Chu_''....Me too. I did have one encouraging moment recently when the DNC called to solicit money. I told the woman I was NEVER going to give another dime to the Dems as long they supported Israel, that Gaza was the end of the line for me. She said to... more... - American
'some of them may have Jewish family members or close Jewish friends or colleagues who predispose them to siding with Israel and Zionism. ' _I can't imagine seeing the synagogue members and the Chist-ian Zios in the large hall singing praise the lord in harmony. Don't CZ's want to purge Judaism from the planet at the second coming? I don't think they have an affinity for one another. But I should say I've never listened to one of Hagee's great pro-Israel sermons. Where's Jones to weigh in here? - Chu_
Many leading non-Jewish Zionists are not Christian Zionists of the fundamentalist type -- they are more sophisticated than that (consider James Woolsey or Walter Russell Mead). There are many factors that might motivate non Jews to support Israel and Zionism, all the way from extreme idealism to extreme cynicism. - Sean McBride
''There are many factors that might motivate non Jews to support Israel and Zionism''..sean),,,,,,,What are the factors? - American
Is there a list for # prominent non-Jewish Zionists Organizations. > as in NPR... etc - Chu_
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