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Diaspora Project: Building the Anti-Facebook - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
imabonehead, Iván Abrego, Adewale Oshineye and 7 other people liked this
"Envisioned by four NYU computer science students, the Diaspora project would replace today's centralized social web (yes, they mean you, Facebook) with a decentralized one, while still offering something that's convenient and easy for anyone to use. According to the project's homepage, the students, Daniel Grippi, Maxwell Salzberg, Raphael Sofaer, and Ilya Zhitomirskiy, "bonded over many late nights building a Makerbot," (to you non-geeks, that's a type of robot) and they "started discussing what a distributed social network would look like.""
- Meryn Stol
from Bookmarklet
"If Diaspora is realized, it will be up to technology advocates to position the turn-key service in a way that will make it sound simple and appealing to precisely those sorts of mainstream users if it is to ever succeed. Taking shots at Facebook's privacy issues may be a good course (Take back control with Diaspora!)."
- Meryn Stol
Get6d: Own your content. A distributed social network application - http://www.get6d.com/
Laura Norvig, Elizabeth Brown and Michael R. Bernstein liked this
"6d is an identity building application. Its purpose is to allow you to centralize your life, photos, thoughts, posts or anything else, but still share with friends, colleagues, or the world."
- Meryn Stol
from Bookmarklet
Buzz is exactly what people wanted for OpenFF. Infact, if you look at Dango Daikazoku and Buzz you will see some very, very strong technical similarities.
Kol Tregaskes, Tyson Key, Chris Loft and 4 other people liked this
Yes, I remember it was pubsubhubbub-based system :) And, Buzz is based on some open-standards. That reminds me directeur's attitude to implement socnode. Now DeWitt mentions webfinger-matters..
- Kazutaka Ogaki
Still, I need Buzz to implement comment-data publishing.
- Kazutaka Ogaki
In some sense, still socnode is the future of Buzz. To block SPAM, to protect privacy, policy and authentication/certification/encryption matters shall be implemened. DeWitt would love to see discussion in Dango Daikazoku group.
- Kazutaka Ogaki
Is Salmon protocol support available in Buzz yet?
- Mike Chelen
Not yet I think. But they said it's comming soon. http://code.google.com/intl... Partly, this is because still salmon protocol is evolving, see : http://www.abstractioneer.org/2010... and http://salmon-protocol.googlecode.com/svn...
- Kazutaka Ogaki
Now all we need is for Google to release the Buzz server code :)
- Mike Chelen
BREAKING NEWS: I am NOT giving up on socnodes. I'll work on them again, very soon :)
Mo Kargas, Meryn Stol, imabonehead and 9 other people liked this
Yes, I know, I didn't work on them actively lately, but that's because I was busy with "paid" projects. i.e. working for money :)
- directeur
I'm still busy actually, but I will try to find some time for this baby. People who helped me, supported the idea (Kazutaka, Nick, Jason, AJ, Vijay....) do greatly deserve my time
- directeur
I know the feeling, I built an identi.ca compatible twitter clone with comet but haven't been able to work on it much... We have to learn to be more like Evan Prodromou I guess :-)
- Brian Hendrickson
Brian, yeah... While I don't fully agree with Evan's ideas (and he knows it) I have a great respect for initiatives like his, ideas ignition and then maintaining them alive :)
- directeur
Good to know! :)
- AJ Batac :)
Yeah, it's not easy to work actively on such projects when you have a family to feed and bills to pay.. Encouragements!
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
CALL FOR CONTRIBUTION: First of all, sorry, guys, I know, I'm bugging you with my "distributed/decentralized social networks" posts. I know, and I'm sorry. I'm looking for someone who can help me promote this idea, work on it, get coders' attention. BECAUSE those who, historically, are known for their interest in this, don't seem interested at all
Roney Smith, Louis Simoneau, Roberto Bonini and 15 other people liked this
I'm a man, and honnestly, a passionate one. I'm not good at evangelizing. And above all, I'm nothing but a simple guy. So, please if you want to help, don't think about "me", for I'm nothing. Do it for the sake of the idea :)
- directeur
yay! :)
- Oguz Serdar
Sağol, Oğuz kardeşim! :) — Oh, and by "historically", I -of course- don't mean Jason, Kol, or AJ. I hope you all understood that :)
- directeur
Thanks, Eric! Any help is welcome, and actually we're living in ear where "marketing" often is more important than the product itself! So, thanks a lot! :)
- directeur
So, everyone; please if you have ideas on anything from the management of this idea to technical stuff, please join the openff group http://friendfeed.com/openff
- directeur
directeur, start blogging about socnode to get the word out. Let the search engines help you spread the word. Another thing is to move the "demo" link from under "code" into the main hyperlinks next to "code."
- imabonehead
dir, don't think I've given up -- real life has thrown some nasty curves I can't talk about (I will on Monday) and my own, very delayed project, has kept me abnormally busy. But I *promise* I will blog a full article about this and might even send you some questions for the article... Sorry I haven't been more involved!
- Jorge Escobar
I'm still behind my schedule to release sample implementation in Erlang ( http://github.com/kgbu... is still under construction). But, through the struggling (esp. with Salmon protocol related implementation), I've learned something to tell. So, I think that I'll be able to post more clear and concrete entry. Then, I'll start thinkng about Social/Economic/Privacy side of the socnode. And, still coding on socnode is fun for me.
- Kazutaka Ogaki
from m.ctor.org
@Kazutaka - you are working on the Salmon stuff? That'll be great if you can get that to work!
- Nick Lothian
Thank you, guys! :) Kazutaka, I'm eager to see that! Nick's right, it'll be great if we use salmon as the commenting sub-system of socnodes! Ganbatte kudasai ne! :)
- directeur
I wish could help but I'm no coder. :-(
- Kol Tregaskes
No problem at all, Kol! Thank you :)
- directeur
Mohomed, very good question! Well, we have to promote the idea, discuss some technical issues, get more coders and devs, as much as possible implementations in various languages, have blog posts and presentations on the subject... There's a lot of work actually. I'm a lazy dork, I confess, but again, I'm not a superman. I need people's help :-)
- directeur
http://www.salmon-protocol.org/salmon-... - we had some trouble with the SocNodes commentry protocol. I think this handles it well
Kol Tregaskes, directeur and Kazutaka Ogaki liked this
Yay! It looks like a good solution in fact, and if I understand well, it uses the same idea as socnodes too!
- directeur
コミュニティをわれらの手に取り戻す：Socnodeのアイデア - http://d.hatena.ne.jp/kgbu...
AJ Batac :) liked this
ありがと Kazutaka さん！：）
- directeur
from Bookmarklet
And here's a translation by google: http://translate.google.com/transla...
- directeur
Thanks, Joe! I'm sure that with the help of people like Kazutaka, Nick, Matt and the wonderful job of Brad, Brett and the pubsubhubbub folks @google we'll make it happen! :)
- directeur
s/Brat/Brad/
- Brett Slatkin
:)) thanks Brett
- directeur
Wow, I'm very happy to see that the post cheered up folks :)
- Kazutaka Ogaki
Hi folks! May I ask you a favor? I worked hard on my latest project "Socnode". I really liked it, and it was (still is!) fun! But I need help, I need people who can evangelize, people who know how to code. Please, if you know how to write php/python/java/ruby... code, and have some spare time, please think about it.
Kol Tregaskes, Iphigenie, Hüseyin Mert and 14 other people liked this
If you don't code, maybe you can help with some design, art... help promote the idea? :) Thank you! — I'm not saying that this idea is the "next BIG thing" (it will probably, I don't know) I'm just a man who'd love to see something happen and asks for help from smarter people :)
- directeur
hi, I'm working on my PubSubHubbub client(Pub/Sub) in Erlang. Your code and discussion happened here helped me a lot. But it would take one more week or so to release yet-very-alpha-one :) And also making a blog post in Japanese on socnode idea.
- Kazutaka Ogaki
So far, as long as I know, Erlang might not be good choice to implement Socnode type sevice :) There are so many things(framework, library, etc.) to make from the scratch(or customize). But I chose that way just for fun :)
- Kazutaka Ogaki
Arigato ne, Kazutaka san! :) Go for Erlang! I LOVE it when code is fun!
- directeur
@directeur, I'd love to tackle this on PHP BUT as you know, I'm in a race myself trying to release my own socnet project. But hopefully we'll be able to merge on the road ahead. Arigato! ;)
- Jorge Escobar
Holà Jorge! :) I know, and I'm looking forward seeing that! By the way, hey! Do not ever make me ask for an invite!!!!! :)
- directeur
@directeur Can't promise anything LOL!
- Jorge Escobar
Gah!! :)
- directeur
Hello, directeur-san. I've just made my blog post on socnode in Japanese :) http://d.hatena.ne.jp/kgbu... Writing the post made me think a lot about socnode. As for my Erlang code, just begun to talk to the Hub, but the hub does not understand my code speaking :p Anyway, I'm enjoying coding.
- Kazutaka Ogaki
As for Wave, I'm learning ejabberd :)
- Kazutaka Ogaki
Kore wa totemo ii desu, Kazutaka! :) Btw, have you seen Matt's work on xmpp and pubsubhubbub?
- directeur
SocNode was mentioned in Brett's slideshow for facebook as a "Cool app" using Pubsubhubbub: http://www.onebigfluke.com/2009... (page 50)
Peter Hoffmann, Kazutaka Ogaki and directeur liked this
That's great! :)
- directeur
Dear friends, welcome again to this group where I'll try to tell you about my current project. The "idea", this time, is really MORE interesting than the code itself. So what is the idea?
Lyndon Washington, minus-one, deerstep and 5 other people liked this
In three words: "Distributed Social Network".
- directeur
Go to : http://socnode2.appspot.com and login with username "beta" and password "123" post something and then go to http://socnode.appspot.com/alpha (Yes two different/separate sites -notice the "2")
- directeur
You can even add your google reader atom feed to your subscriptions as "My URL" and your feed and alpa's one will be updated in realtime :) Same thing with your blog (if it's using feedburner) — For now, the "javascript" realtime works only on "your and your friends entries" page :)
- directeur
directeur, I posted something on socnode2 (http://socnode2.appspot.com/show...) but didn't see it replicated on socnode. Did I miss something? The concept is intriguing, but I'd like to know more of what's happening behind the scenes...
- Jorge Escobar
It is, Jorge; Look http://socnode.appspot.com/alpha :)
- directeur
I just saw it! Maybe it's all the processing that takes a little bit to refresh, I'm guessing. Cool!
- Jorge Escobar
Cool :) Let's test this Jorge. go on http://socnode2.appspot.com/beta and I'll be on alpha's node
- directeur
ok
- Jorge Escobar
from IM
that was instantaneous! :)
- Jorge Escobar
from IM
Yes, and what's MORE IMPORTANT is that nodes DON'T push content to their subscribers :)
- directeur
Btw, you can login with the username "alpha" in http://socnode.appspot.com (and password 123) if you want to test further :)
- directeur
I just saw so cool thing! It's really immediate.
- Kazutaka Ogaki
sugoi! realtime updating each other! btw, home (http://socnode2.appspot.com/) seems to be ordered recent updating. ...and what order is it on "Me and my friends" (http://socnode.appspot.com/[userna...]) ? some article seems replace to top after rendering. (if its not important for this phase, leave this - i will just post whatever i wonder/notice ;-) )
- browneyes
Arigato ne, imouto! Thanks for the feedback :) This is as you guessed very über experimental, and I'm looking forward seeing many smarter people coding on it :)
- directeur
This is awesome!
- AJ Batac :)
Jason and AJ. guys you'll make me blush! Thanks :) It'll be really awesome when i'll make the basic idea bug-free and open source it so that smarter folks may code on it :)
- directeur
It has bugs? I still have to find one. :)
- AJ Batac :)
heh, well, it's still not perfect. I had to fight some serious monsters in this, but it's still not perfect :)
- directeur
Please, everyone. Star by reading this post.
- directeur
Cool, I posted something on socnode2 and instantly saw it on socnode!
- imabonehead
Ha! Glad you liked it imabonedhead!
- directeur
i am speechless, except to say I have some friends that would die to play with this and peek under the hood (the code).
- April
right now everyone can edit everyone on the same hub?
- Chris Hofmann
Chris, well, yes, but that's easy to fix. Just a bit lazy and focused on harder tasks :)
- directeur
Looks great directeur.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
sure i just wondered if its part of your vision :)
- Chris Hofmann
Thanks folks! April. Please feel free to invite them. The code will be open and free very soon :)
- directeur
They are not on friendfeed...well one is, but not the other.
- April
Doesn't look like I can invite anyone here (the one guy that is on friendfeed).
- April
Oops, sorry April. Now, you can :)
- directeur
Oh, btw, have I told you that you can edit your entry and the modifications will be propagated to the other nodes? :)
- directeur
Wow, you make this seem really easy.
- Nathaniel Thurston
It actually WORKS!
jeunhommalunet, April, Philippe Mongeau and 30 other people liked this
gamma is on socnode3, beta on socnode2 and alpha on socnode. alpha is subscribed to beta and beta is subscribed to gamma. The screenshot above is made from alpha and friends' page! and it was IMMEDIATE! —if you can call moving from a firefox tab to another "realtime", then this is realtime :)
- directeur
You can see it live here: http://socnode.appspot.com/friends...
- directeur
I love to see you hacking away like this, Directeur. You've got the right spirit. :)
- Meryn Stol
Thanks Meryn, it's all fun for me, and I'm happy to see some people liking it! :)
- directeur
Cool!
- Kol Tregaskes
Hey, hey! Glad to see that at least 26 people like this! :)
- directeur
(just got here, have not develed in deep yet) I have been thinking about something similar, but I was concerned about impersonation of content as nodes proxy content for other nodes. Does this setup allow content to be signed?
Kol Tregaskes, Roberto Bonini, Nick Lothian and 3 other people liked this
I was thinking a public/private keypair is generated, and anything the origin generates (either directly posted content, sourced from an RSS feed, or a comment on another entry) get signed with the private key. The public key is available in a well-known location (or a URL to it is available in the content (perhaps only in some messages if message size is a concern)), which any node can grab to verify content. This reduces confusion as to if you are actually following the content you expect to even if two people are using the same name/identifier, and it lets users who mass follow (think Scoble) and have the infrastructure proxy a significant amount of content from their subscribers without the origin user having to trust everyone else on the network (trust in terms of not being able to modify the content in transit). Nodes would just throw out any content they received that did not have a valid cryptographic signature.
- Andy Bakun
The other advantage here is that DM/PM (direct/private messaging) really is private since the message can be encrypted with the public key of the recipient.
- Andy Bakun
All this could happen behind the scenes and since you don't require any certificates or key signing, I think you'd avoid the whole chicken-and-egg PKI issues that have traditionally been a problem. Obviously, a central hub could offer key signing as way to vouch for the authenticity of the account (think Twitter's "Verified Account" setup, except cryptographically secure) still, but...
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- Andy Bakun
And of course, public keys would not be distributed through this system, but would be a side-channel request, perhaps via HTTP or DNS, directly to the publisher of the content (I assert that you can download my public key with a DNS request for a KEY RR to pubkey.thwartedefforts.example.org, for example, or at http://example.org/~thwart...). So you could subscribe to my content through Scoble's mega-hub, and verify if it independently.
- Andy Bakun
Another thing this enables is trusted filtering. Services could be created that filter content but can't edit it before passing it on.
- Andy Bakun
Oh, and this has positive implications when dealing with the Ouroboros bug and Lernaean Hydra bug.
- Andy Bakun
Very interesting policy on filtering, identification, etc. I'm dreaming about socnodes with variety of policies and still interoperable (of course partially).
- Kazutaka Ogaki
from m.ctor.org
A difficulty with such a scheme: what happens when the keypair is lost? I think we'll need some sort of mechanism for people who've been disconnected from their keys (whether by loss, theft, or whatever) to reconnect with their established social network.
- Nathaniel Thurston
I don't think that's a significant difficulty. If a keypair is lost, your reputation just starts over. No new content is going to be generated using the old keypair. It's like creating a new account. The same thing happens if you lose your password or can't do account recovery on any other site, so the ramifications are the same, and users seem to be okay with these ramifications
- Andy Bakun
When I throwing around an idea for this, I was not considering using XML as the transport, but something a little more usable, at least IMO, like JSON, and an entire JSON object would be signed, and wrapped in another object that asserted the signing properties. Obviously, Atom is already XML, but I don't like the idea of startsign elements -- the whole content element needs to be signed in order for this to be effective.
- Andy Bakun
Kazutaka: yeah. Potentially, you could have a completely private stream proxyed through endpoints and hubs that can't actually read the content. So it's kind of like tor, where the actual origins of the content don't have known endpoints.
- Andy Bakun
Andy, I'd be happier if there were a mechanism for recovery. All that needs to happen: first, that a request is sent out to a few of the old associates; second, enough time (or spam, if that's what happened) elapses to verify that the old account is indeed inactive; third, that a message of keypair change is propagated through the social network; and fourth, that people who recognize you and wish to reconfirm that they want to see your stuff connect to the new keypair.
- Nathaniel Thurston
Account compromise happens all the time, at least for the stars of the show. The current solution is administrative, that the managers at a place like FriendFeed have the required power. I don't think we can do without this ability if the platform ever gets big enough to attract determined attackers.
- Nathaniel Thurston
Agreed, Nathaniel, and your suggested solution is the proper one -- when I said "your reputation starts over", that was too strong, as this doesn't necessarily preclude you from binding your known identity to a new key. What you outline is not really recovery though, and that's rebinding a new key to the old identity.
- Andy Bakun
And, there's nothing stopping you from having multiple keys bound to the same identity at the same time. In fact, I think that should be a feature of the system, as it makes identity recovery, using a method like you've outlined, really simple and straight forward.
- Andy Bakun
Hey! I should read and re-read this thread again :) Until now, I had this this idea of socnodes: A node is implemented (coded by an implementer) He/She can add features, and implement hooks like post/pre_save, post/pre_publish and pre/post_subscribe... in order to process/alter/do anything actually in the node's level. People are identified by their nicks AND the hostnames of their nodes. For eg. I'm directeur@socnode.appspot.com (this is not an email, just my account on this node) And this is UNIQUE.
- directeur
Now, there is another person who I call the nodemaster (as in webmaster) who administers the node, adds users, edit them, filter... (does bureaucratic stuff). SocNodes can host a limited number of known users. So identity unicity is guaranteed here (at least on serious nodes, maintained by serious nodemasters) — Also think of the idea of thematic nodes.... There are actually many possibilities/feature that a node implementer and a nodemaster can implement. So let's code it :)
- directeur
I think it would be better not to have identities bound to nodes. That way, if I get fed up with a nodemaster (or if a nodemaster becomes nonresponsive, or ...), it is possible to switch nodes.
- Nathaniel Thurston
Good idea Nathaniel, then people should use feeds redirections à la feedburner! Again IMHO, this should be implemented in the node level (and not be a part of the protocol) To be honnest, I'm striving to keep the idea simple and using good old standards. Talking about feeds redirections, one could for eg. write a little plugin to provide to his node redirection of feeds to feedburner?...
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- directeur
directeur, please don't let me overcomplicate the system -- I have a tendency to overdesign and overplan to the point where implementation is too huge a task to contemplate. Better a system that works (it will be improved later) than one that doesn't get built.
- Nathaniel Thurston
Nathaniel, no I won't let you :) What I meant is that hopefully in the future we'll see socnodes written in php, python, ruby, whatnot... or even see famous blog engines transformed to socnodes with plugins. They'll be written differently using different appraoches and techniques. Probably they'll have different features too, but what I'd *really* like to see is a *minimal* thing that...
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- directeur
I agree with you Jason! *Users* should never be told about certificates/keys... ever! This is how I imagined it: You have friends on a socnode, you ask its nodemaster to create an account for you. You don't trust him? That's fine! Download (or code) your own socnode and use it. The "average" user is exactly our dear average user who "used" to blog. People are on wordpress.com because...
more...
- directeur
Pubsubhub has signed content distribution already speced: http://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn...
- Nick Lothian
I'm pretty sure that covers what we need - it provides enough security to verify a post came from a given feed. Obviously it doesn't verify who created that feed etc, but I think to tackle that is a pretty big increase in scope.
- Nick Lothian
Great! I've actually though about verifying that posted content comes from a hub for a specifi subscr. (in my todo for my gae implementation) but this idea in the new spec is better and simpler. Kuddos to the pubsubhubbub folks!
- directeur
Who is "user" in this case? I think it's valuable to think of "users" as individuals who run their own nodes, and who subscribe to each other. Services that provide an endpoint to individuals in aggregate is another issue. Services can hide all the details of keys and signing from their users (that may be a reason to use them), but if I set up a node myself, I expect to be able to deal...
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- Andy Bakun
Do you care that content comes from a specific hub if the content itself is signed as coming from the origin? If the hub has additional stuff to add to the content, for filtering or tagging, perhaps, then that content should be signed by the hub. I don't really like the idea of "hubs" being built into the system, but rather they arise just because someone subscribes to a lot of people...
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- Andy Bakun
I guess the whole idea of a hub just seems to centralize it more than it needs to be, even if there is more than one "center". I'd like to think that if I'm subscribed to Scoble, and he's effectively a hub because of his reach, that if he decides to shut down his hub, everything, other than Scoble originated content, will still be able to reach me and move around the network.
- Andy Bakun
Now that I've reviewed section "7.4. Authenticated Content Distribution" of that draft, I'm still not sure why you'd want to authenticate the hub's message, rather than the individual content messages. This puts a lot of trust into the hub itself, exactly where it shouldn't be for a distributed system. I mean, thanks Hub, for managing, aggregating and forwarding all this content for me,...
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- Andy Bakun
Well I guess at the moment individual messages aren't authenticated, so PSHB follows that model. Obviously you are right, and the security concerns change once hubs become involved. The problem is that signed messages aren't implemented widely with the current RSS/Atom polling infrastructure, and getting that changed is a "boil the ocean" project.
- Nick Lothian
The hub only signs messages so the subscriber knows that an incoming message came from a hub they had previously registered with. Otherwise, if you know a subscriber's receiving URL, you can fake messages. This assumes both the publisher (who delegated to the hub in their feed with the <link rel="hub".../>) and subscriber (who read the feed directly from the publisher initially) both trust that hub insofar as it will properly relay content.
- Brett Slatkin
You can use XML DSIG or whatever other standard you want to actually sign/encrypt/whatever the Atom payload separately, if that's what you want.
- Brett Slatkin
The subscriber can always go back to the original source to check the data, too. That's less than optimal, but it is an option for the paranoid I guess.
- Nick Lothian
Thanks for the input ,everyone! Andy, you're definitey right! Until now, socndoes describe the basic "mechanism". There are still many questions to answer, many cases to study, and many ideas to explore. The "Dango Daikazoku" proof of concept is far from being perfect, actually I did it so quickly that I still have to fix some silliness in it :) Discussions like this one make the idea clearer, and even if they show possible difficulties, they prove that socnodes aren't an utopia. Ganbatte kudasai ne! :)
- directeur
Hi Folks! Today is my birthday, I'm 33! :) And I wanted to celebrate by releasing an idea -and an implementation of it- to the wild! It's Socnode: The basic unit of distributed social networks. http://www.socnode.org/
wolf hesse, Mitchell Tsai, Thierry R. Andriamirado and 98 other people liked this
I'm also opening the private group Dango Daikazoku だんご大家族 where the making-of socnodes is actively discussed. Welcome everyone! http://friendfeed.com/dango-p... :) Oh and the source code here: http://github.com/directe... ! Fork! :) DEMO here: http://ff.im/7u1ER !
- directeur
happy birthday buddy. congrats! :)
- Oguz Serdar
Phew! I feel LIGHTER! :)
- directeur
May I mention the Socnode source is up on Github? :) http://github.com/directe...
- Meryn Stol
Sure, Meryn! It is :)
- directeur
congrats ! I hope the best for the new age and new project
- denizoktar
Well done! Happy Birthday.
- Peter Hoffmann
Congrats!
- Nick Lothian
happy birthday!
- Joe The Sausage
Thank you guys! :) Didier, par avance, joyeux anniversaire à toi aussi! :)
- directeur
funny i just wished someone else with the same post a happy bday - well happy bday to you too
- viki saigal
:) Thanks viki!
- directeur
Happy birthday!
- cea
Happy Birthday, Directeur!
- David Cook
from fftogo
Happy Birthday directeur :) socnode is a great idea btw :p
- deerstep
Thank you, guys! For a demo btw, read this: http://ff.im/7u1ER :)
- directeur
Happy birthday!
- Bird-botts
Happy birthday!
- Dee @ Holycool.net
Congratulations, directeur! You won this race, LOL! I'm excited to see what comes out from this project.
- Jorge Escobar
Hey hey! It's my favorite directeur's birthday? Happy Birthday, Miyagi-San! Looking forward to checking this new project out. :)
- Josh Haley
♫ ♬ Happy birthday to you ♩ ♪ ♬
- Laurent
:) Really glad to have you arround, guys! Jorge, now your turn, man! ;-) Josh! That's *A* HONOR! Watashi wa? Hontoni honto? Arigato Josh san, and hey! Focus Daniel San! ALLWAYS LOOK EYE :) — Mille merçis, Laurent! :)
- directeur
Credit where credit is due: The blue O is an idea by Vijay no baka! The guy who knows how to insult me in japanese and who in return gets his fair share of insults too! Arigato, rokudenashi! :) — Oh and to see the thing in action, go to http://socnode2.appspot.com login with "beta" and password "123" share something and go to http://socnode.appspot.com to see it there too!
- directeur
Happy Birthday! And this sounds like a great idea!
- Ahsan Ali
Thanks Ahsan Ali :)
- directeur
Happy birthday!
- Rollin' in the LB
Happy Birthday bro! :) Now you're an old man :p
- tunahan
Thanks Laura! Tunahan, thank you too! And Oh yes! I'm old, and old people don't send DMs to their turkish friends with a shamefull record of them singing in turkish :D
- directeur
oh i like the way u sing :))
- deerstep
Yes, Onur, for a good laugh that's really nice! :P Thanks anyway :) heh, you won't share it here right, right?? :))
- directeur
For a good laugh??? kanka I CRIED when i listened to that piece :pp and i'm definitely gonna share it if you leave this project :)
- deerstep
Happy Birthday directeur!!! :)
- AJ Batac :)
Happy birthday.
- Anika
Happy birthday!
- Ladyepiphanybug
Thanks AJ, Anika and Ladybug! :)
- directeur
anni di Cristo! congratulations and happy birthday.
- Nathan Rein
Happy Birthday. Off to go play with socnode.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
wishing you a *very* Happy Birthday !
- Adriano
Thanks Nathan, Jimminy and Adriano! :)
- directeur
awesome!! & of course Happy Bday
- The Real sofarsoShawn
Happy Bday!
- Herb Hernandez
Happy birthday!
- Janette Toral
Thanks, folks :)
- directeur
Thanks pea! :) Well I was really busy, but now I'm watching anime —yes, I'm 33, so what? :)
- directeur
Yeah!! ;-)
- directeur
Happy Birthday/Dogum gunun kutlu olsun Directeur, i wish all your wishes come true, especially Begum part :)
- MugeCerman
happy birthday :) great project.
- Ahmet Alp Balkan
otanjoubi omedeto gozaimasu directeur :D btw the Matrix series that rocked the planet was inspired by Ghost in the Shell. Not only that, GITS talks about social media and memes 10 years ago. The anime we watch are far from the silly Powerpuff kiddie anime that people normally see as anime. Watch away directeur, I'm with you :D
- vijay
happy bday, mr directeur!
- imabonehead
Happy bday!
- iTad
Happy birthday indeed!
- Adrian
Happy B'day!
- .LAG liked that
Happy Birthday, directeur!
- Anne Bouey
Happy Birthday, directeur! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Happy Birthday directeur !
- stanjourdan
bon anniversaire!
- anna sauce
Happy birthday, Directeur!! Looking forward to checking out SocNode, thanks for sharing!
- Harold Cabezas
Thank you all folks! :) @Vijay: Totally! @Harold, please do! You can try the demo (links above) and check out the source code too! @Cristo: Happy birthady to you too! ;-)
- directeur
Happy birthday, glad to meet you and have you as a FF. Be happy allways, you deserve it.
- Céu de Buarque
Gracias Céu! Really glad to meet you, too! :)
- directeur
Happy Birthday and nice going on the SM implementation :)
- Jeunelle Foster
Happy birthday Directeur! Let me be a part of the Dango Dango Family :)
- CannonGod
Thanks Jeunelle and CannonGod! CannonGod, oh sure! welcome aboard and let's sing together: dango dango dango dango dango daikazoku http://ff.im/7srJ3 :)
- directeur
happy belated birthday!
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
happy belated from me
- Mike Dammann
Thank you, all! :) Jason, let's hope so! As I often said it in the Dango Daikazoku group, the idea here is really more important than my own django implementation of it -which actually is beautiful too! ;-)
- directeur
A belated happy birthday to you, Directeur. :)
- Brome
Merci Brome! C'est très gentil :)
- directeur
Doğum günün kutlu olsun directeur! Nice senelere...
- Tahir DEMİRTAŞ ∙
Çok teşekkürler, Tahir kardeşim :)
- directeur
Thanks, Herzeleid! Thanks everyone! :)
- directeur
Happy Birthday - great age! ;)
- Jemm
happy bday buddy :) mutlu yıllar, Allah hayırlı uzun ömür versin :))
- Mücahit Yılmaz
from fftogo
Çok teşekkürler Jemm! Thank you so much, Mücahit :)
- directeur
Directeur, I'm very excited about the distribution part of Dango, but the part missing here (comparing to FriendFeed/Google Reader) is commenting on items. Is that something you've thought about?
Kol Tregaskes, vijay and Kazutaka Ogaki liked this
Great! Thanks, Jorge! Yes, indeed, I thought about commenting too! That'd use a kind of trackbacks, coupled with comments in json form (included in entries' body). That could do it! Picture this with me: A feed's entry is its title, link, media and comments (integrated in json format for eg.) The "client" (a node) recieves this and displays the comments. When the user comments, a trackback is sent to the node where the entry comes from, and this node will update its DB
- directeur
Sure, this needs some work, but IMHO it's doable. meanwhile, nodes implementers may use js commenting systems like disqus, echo and co.
- directeur
Brilliant! You've thought of everything... wait, what about likes? (although likes wouldn't make a lot of sense in this context, right?)
- Jorge Escobar
:) Thanks! Why "like"? (let's go for votes, or like AND dislike) and that could be implemented in the node's level too. Also, I think iirc that there's a rank extension to atom feeds
- directeur
I think each post should have a atom feed associated with it which contains the comments. Updates to that would flow via PSHB, and other nodes could choose to subscribe to a conversation.
- Nick Lothian
Something like http://www.snellspace.com/wp... would work
- Nick Lothian
Nick, I see. I actually thought about the atom comments extension but that'd create a heavy use of hubs. I mean theorically that's cool but the implementation would'nt be optimal imho.
- directeur
they don't all have to use the same hub - and if you are doing trackback then it's pretty much the same amount of network traffic anyway
- Nick Lothian
Well, yeah, they don't have to be the same hub indeed. But why not include the comments in the body? (that might look bizarre, I know, but in our case comments updates make the entry update)
- directeur
I don't think you should include comments in the body for two reasons. 1) That will mean the whole entry + all comments will have to be resent each time a new comments is made. (2) In non-web environments it'll be be difficult to display (think about the PSHB->XMPP bridge - basically that's a comment notifier/desktop client already, but it wouldn't really work if the whole entry was sent each time a new comment was added)
- Nick Lothian
You're totally right, Nick! Thanks! — Well, then back to the original "spirit" of hubs. Let's make them suffer and handle the hard work ;-)
- directeur
BTW, there is some discussion around the problems with this strategy in the Etherpad document: http://etherpad.com/HpGVXl5j4I
- Nick Lothian
Folks, I think I never told you how I'm grateful for your support and help. It was a real fun. From the bottom of my heart: thanks :)
Kol Tregaskes and browneyes liked this
Oh, btw, today is my birthday! :) I installed the site here http://www.socnode.org and I'm about to prepare the code for github and then very probably announce the project for everyone and open this group :)
There's still some tweaks though. Again if you notice some stupid typo or even English mistakes please let me know :)
- directeur
Happy birthday!
- Jason Wehmhoener
Thanks, Jason!
- directeur
Happy Birthday directeur!
- Jorge Escobar
Thank you, Jorge! :)
- directeur
Congrats. Nice to launch this on your birthday. Cool you got your own domain. This is serious business now. :)
- Meryn Stol
Happy (and very busy) birthday! I wish you'll have many DANGOs and cakes :) And, Socnode site looks fine, thank you.
- Kazutaka Ogaki
Thank you, Eric, Meryn, Kazutaka and imouto! :) Really glad to have you arround, folks :)
- directeur
Ohai Folks! Here's a work in progress: http://socnodesite.appspot.com Please take a look, and if you have any suggestions, corrections, comments... please let me know :)
Kol Tregaskes and vijay liked this
Again this is for your eyes only :) — I'll probably announce the whole thing very very soon!
- directeur
I have to go off for now. See you later, guys :)
- directeur
It looks good!
- Jorge Escobar
really well done and neat! minimal ftw!
- vijay
Q: Why this and not noserub?
- Marcos Marado
from fftogo
Thanks Jorge and vijay! That was actually a "quick n' dirty" version :) — Marcos: many reasons actually. 1) Real time using PSHB. 2) The use of a proven standard: Atom Feeds instead of a new and alien protocol.
- directeur
[ATTENTION PRIVATE POST] Your mission, should you decide to accept it: Make this logo look nicer! :)
Kol Tregaskes, Louis Gray, AJ Batac :) and 3 other people liked this
Please don't post this in your public feed. Don't share it yet - pretty please :)
- directeur
Also here's a svg if you need it https://dl.getdropbox.com/u...
- directeur
That blue O is an idea by the FF Vijay no baka! :) Arigato "gozaimassu" ROKUDENASHI! ;-)
- directeur
DOUITASHIMASHITE SUKEBEI!!
- vijay
Looks pretty good as-is, directeur!
- Matt M (inactive)
Vijay no BWAKA! :) Matt, Thanks! I actually made it very quickly and thought that someone could make it better
- directeur
seems like a rounded font would work well with the circular o and the rounded corners on the o.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Folks, I just created an etherpad here http://etherpad.com/HpGVXl5j4I to fill in texts that will be used for the site. Please help with your questions and answers and well... text! :)
Kol Tregaskes and Micah liked this
Optimization: Now using ETags and Last-Modified to smartly fetch feeds :)
Kol Tregaskes and Meryn Stol liked this
Next step: Produce nice feeds supporting these features! (Well, that'll be in the todo list of the released code)
- directeur
Little improvements: Timestamps and sources of entries added to pages.
Kol Tregaskes, Meryn Stol and Kazutaka Ogaki liked this
Also removed most of the "hackish" tricks in the code :)
- directeur
Cleaning the code and trying to make it nicer. Bugs... indeed :(
Kol Tregaskes and Roberto Bonini liked this
Fixed! :)
- directeur
YaY! Cron job for subscriptions (service feeds) not associated with a hub working!
Kol Tregaskes and Kazutaka Ogaki liked this
I Lost 5Kgs of my head's hair "thanks" to a trailing slash in URLs :'(
- directeur
My entries from FriendFeed are being imported in the test :)
- directeur
awesome!
- imabonehead
Thanks, imabonehead! It should work on any feed, btw. I just tested with my posterous and it worked like a charm :)
- directeur
Hi Folks! I'm such a lazy dork! So I had this idea about the doc. (woha this rhymes!) Let's write together some text here that I can copy/paste on the project's site (which I'd like to launch in a few days). Your questions and answers already inspired me a lot, so let's do it again :)
Kol Tregaskes, Kazutaka Ogaki and browneyes liked this
Definition: A SocNode is the basic element of "distributed social networks". It's a kind of an extrapolation of a blog. A socnode can host one or many members' accounts. A socnode provides atom feeds of its members, and/or their friends entries.
- directeur
A socnode is a "publisher" and a "subscriber" at the same time. It publishes entries posted by its users. and it is subscribed to feeds. These feeds can be 1) Users' services (lifestream, blogs...) 2) User's friends' (on other socnodes) feeds.
- directeur
A socnode publishes entries it recieves from its subscriptions — This is actually what makes the node active in the network.
- directeur
Your turn, now! :)
- directeur
Can you create an etherpad & link it here so we can all edit it?
- Nick Lothian
Not a bad idea, Nick! That's a nice use of it, in fact! :)
- directeur
Here it is http://etherpad.com/HpGVXl5j4I :)
- directeur
I'm currently working on feeds, there's a bug. I'm trying to fix it. Sorry :) [EDIT: Fixed!]
Kol Tregaskes, Oguz Serdar and AJ Batac :) liked this
Apology is unnecessary.
- AJ Batac :)
Thanks, AJ! Issue fixed, btw :)
- directeur
Konnichiwa mina! As promised, I'll try hard to release the source code very very soon. But then, I need some help with the doc. Releasing a basic demo is cool, but explaining how and why it's cool is cooler :) —I mean, it'd be great if we launch the project with documentation about:
Kol Tregaskes, browneyes and Kazutaka Ogaki liked this
(1) Why Nodes? (compared to centralized solutions)
- directeur
(2) The basic ideas behind nodes (feeds and reproduction of foaf entries) and hubs
- directeur
(3) How people can create their own nodes in their own programming languages...
- directeur
Your ideas are welcome! And if you can help with some texts and illustration, I'll be very happy! :)
- directeur
As a developer's guide, (1)to(3) are almost enough, I think. And most of guys would learn more from running code. So, "How to run reference implementation(source code)" is essential. But for Django user it might be trivial :) or, is it already included in code repos?
- Kazutaka Ogaki
And, as for "donation of workload", I would be able to run some socnodes for testing on my home-servers(with global address). Later on, I'd like to try to implement dango in Erlang :)
- Kazutaka Ogaki
Oh, I forgot TEST cases. Some troublesome usecases are very nice to share. Once this group made public, links to each troubleshooting entires and brief comments on it would be enough, I guess.
- Kazutaka Ogaki
I agree Kazutaka san! :) The "django" part is only a way to make people who love ponies work on this too ;-) and I'd LOVE to see an Erlang implementation of it. I'm sure that Nick will also be working on a java one (he already has the subscriber part). There's also Matt who created a pshb->xmppp gateway! I asked vijay to make me some art for the site and I think that we'll start a google group for devs too (why not?) All in all, I humbly think that we can create something!
- directeur
( regarding design: I'm working on the art and hopefully should be able to post them soon. Last few days were tough and on top of that my site had been hacked by spammers; so can't put down a 'hard' date for when I can finish it up. 15th is the tentative deadline me and directeur have agreed upon. )
- vijay
Little update: Issue with "None" links when no link is posted fixed! Also, worked on the subscriptions UI a little bit. Now it makes a clear separation between a "service" and a "friend feed" (though they're actually the same thing in the data(store|base))
Kol Tregaskes and vijay liked this
Little update: fixed users' rights on editing and deleting nodes' entries :)
Kol Tregaskes and vijay liked this
Little notice for non-techies: You don't see images, videos, audio yet. Don't worry, I, Nick, Mike, Jorge, Kazutaka, Jason (the 2) and others can guarantee you that they're easy to implement. Just a matter of "plugging" MediaRSS, enclosures and any other RSS/Atom extensions to nodes feeds :)
Kol Tregaskes, vijay, Jimminy, CoG of FF and 3 other people liked this
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