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Akiva Moskovitz

Finally watching the FlashForward premier. As each minute ticks by, I'm liking it less and less.

October 3 - Comment - Like - Share

Mark Trapp, DarknessFalls, Amber, Random Time Lord and 6 other people liked this

John Cho, of course, wins every moment that he's on the screen. - Akiva Moskovitz

23 more comments

I feel like I'm watching an M. Night Shyamalan movie over here. - Akiva Moskovitz

5 minutes of awesome. 35 of ho hum. - Pete Delucchi from iPhone

Yeah, it was awesome until the actual 'flash forward' happened and then I suddenly felt like I was being spoon-fed a few seasons' worth of a puzzle-based plot I couldn't give two damns about. - Akiva Moskovitz

Some of the cinematography and direction is extremely questionable. 'Hey, let's get together, discuss our flash forwards.' 'Okay, good idea. Can we do it in your kitchen at night with all of the lights turned off?' 'Of course! How else could we discuss this properly?' - Akiva Moskovitz

I flashed forward six months and FlashForward had been off the air for three. - Ken Sheppardson

Well played, Ken. - Akiva Moskovitz

I still haven't watched it yet. - DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE

I think I liked the second ep better than the pilot. I don't know if I'll hang on for the whole season, though. I don't know if ABC will either, frankly. - Derrick

...i don't think it's got legs to go the distance. they have to start giving us more info on who this single guy walking around in the baseball park is, and who he's connected to. the second ep gave just one vague link. if they drag out the reveal of who the villain is for too long, it won't be worth the wait. - .LAG liked that

First episode was ok. Had to trudge through the plot/character setups. The second episode was better. The endings of both episodes made me say "Oh snap!" out loud. For reals. I dig it. - Josh Haley

I have the second episode recorded but I just can't get enthused about watching it. Maybe later. - Akiva Moskovitz

If you weren't at least "OK, I'm a little curious" after the first episode, don't bother with the second. It's not better. I went from slightly curious to bored over the course of 42 minutes. - veo

I did have the same experience as Josh though.. The ending of the first episode left me wanting more and the end of the 2nd episode gave me a little chill, but the lion share of each episode is bleh. It reminds of fringe, which I don't like very much either. - veo

Ditto. I especially lost interest once I read up on the book. I think I may just get a hold of that instead. - pea

The first epi was good but the second kinda lost me. I'm listening to a podcast on Flash Forward too. - Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕ from iPhone

I watched ep 2, and now I'm probably done. The show is imbalanced with spectacle vs. substance. - Pete Delucchi from iPhone

My problem is that I can't see why the future incarnations of everyone who FFed didn't prepare more information for themselves. - Simon Curran

@Pea - there's a book? - Lindsay

POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT - (depending on how close they will follow the book) - Here's the Wikipedia entry on the book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - CAJ, somewhere else

I think the little things like Seth McFarlane as a FBI agent and the search for D Gibbons (I was hoping there would also be a character called A Moore) are more interesting than the main storyline, but I will be watching until it gets cancelled in a couple of months. - Derek Coward

I knew that FBI agent looked familiar! - Akiva Moskovitz

This show and Fringe are both getting canceled. - DarknessFalls

Neither my wife nor I dug FlashForward. We didn't even make it through the pilot; we were bored. - Joey Gibson

I am the only one who really likes it. Yay me! - Josh Haley from iPhone

Bret Taylor to Bret's feed, FriendFeed News

FriendFeed Blog: FriendFeed now available in فارسی - http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009...

May 29 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

سید امیر, Daniel Rowley, Darren Heydon and 162 other people liked this

FriendFeed is now available in Persian! Thanks again to all of our Persian users — it has been extremely exciting for us to see FriendFeed so widely used around the world. You can set your language preference here: http://friendfeed.com/... - Bret Taylor from Bookmarklet

30 more comments

Any way we could auto-translate (or even have a link with the option to?)? It'd be great to really be able to collaborate with the non-English speaking world... - Chris Reichow

Thank you all . - MohammadReza

wow, another language... I can't read it, but that is cool! :) - Susan Beebe

Now if we could only filter out languages other then our own and have the lang:en search filter. - DarknessFalls

You're welcome! We are excited to better support our Persian users. - Bret Taylor

Thank you Bret, we love FriendFeed and happy for add Persian language to FF :) - Nimaa

This feels so good to be able to view the pages in a way are eyes used to see Persian writings. Thank you so much! We really appreciate your effort! Thanks again ! :) - تنهاترین انجل

Yay! - Mitchell Tsai

برت چه خوشحاله :)) - Mahyaa مه‌یا

that just looks so beautiful :D - Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)

i love you fer fer :x - Memabo

محشره / غافلگیر شدم - Shandiz

wow! thanks! - Pasparto

thanks مرسي - به نریمان گوش بده

Anybody know of good Farsi to English web translation tools? Google Translate doesn't seem to do it. - Ted Gilchrist

蝌蚪文~~~ - junrxu

Great! thanks thanks :) - Mehrdad

Thanks Dude - Jimbooo™

Agora precisamos da versão em Português. - Carlos Brefe

thanks ((((((((: - yasin ghasemi

Thanks ممنون ;) - Exir

merci bcp . - Afra

ممنون - mohammad mahdi kazzazi

Good job, Bret... Thanks a lot... - کرگدن

Thanks - پارسـا

Thanks - Arash

;) It's FriendFeed.. Bravo - این فرندفید است... براوو - ДMIROVSKY☂امیروفسکی

Ok. - wowfreeze.blogspot.com

Great Bret! I remember that in the past some persian people wrote here that whould be nice to have FF interface also in persian, probabilly because their language is very different and english isn't so diffused such in Europe. A welcome to persian friends! :) - Roberto from fftogo

tnx dear fer fer - Memabo

Hebrew please. ^^ - David C. Cooper

Bret Taylor to Bret's feed, FriendFeed News

FriendFeed accepts Facebook friend request - FriendFeed Blog - http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009...

August 10 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Jason A. Samfield, Srikanth AD, Ozer Wrzl (EN) and 658 other people liked this

We've been acquired by Facebook! We are really excited about joining the Facebook team. (Note: FriendFeed will continue to operate - see the blog post for details) - Bret Taylor from Bookmarklet

514 more comments

Boom. - Louis Gray

Grr! - directeur

Woah... - Brandon Titus

Uh. Well, that's the end of that. - Akiva Moskovitz

Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Roberto Bonini

What does this mean for FriendFeed, Bret? - Kol Tregaskes

Lame. - Mark Trapp

great title bret. well played. - MG Siegler

WOW - Bindu Reddy

Congrat! So, what does this mean to your team and to FF in general? - Dilip Dand

wahhhhhhhhhh - Myrna

maaaan - Jamie

wowow - Harry Wolff

congrats - brainno722 (Peter)

Nooooooooooooo - Mushin

Wait... seriously? - Ken Sheppardson

oh, noooo - Tanju Yildiz

Congratulations to the friendfeed team. I know this is huge for y'all. Please don't let us spoil your parade as we weep. - Ladybug Heather

Seriously?!? ..... - sebastian☆rocket brother

oh boy. - Carlos Ayala

I am hoping this will lead to nice integration for cross posting! Currently using Twitter App on FB to post and I hate those ff.im links that end up on Facebook. - Ivan Zlatev

it was good while it lasted, Friendfeed. :( - holly

division by zero - Onur Cengiz

OMG - Onur Gündüz

"FriendFeed.com will continue to operate normally for the time being. We're still figuring out our longer-term plans for the product with the Facebook team." Those are NOT encouraging things to read as a FF user. - Scott of Two Countries

gratz - Ali

My heart is sinking as I type this. Please tell me that it isn't a late April Fool's joke. :( - Tyson Key

Wow, it's true!! - Kevin Whalen

Big news! I second Kol & dilip's request for what this means for the team and FF's future. - Brandon Titus

O_o - Joe Silence is not dead

So it IS true. - Hector

Nicely done Bret - Jennifer Van Grove

Congratulations btw, guys! - Kol Tregaskes

Sniff... not sure if I'm excited about this. But I have enormous respect for the FriendFeed team... so, I assume they believe in the move as more than an exit strategy. - Michael Leggett

Congrats, Bret. - Jordan Hofker

This is just horrible - Matthew DeVries

Congratulations, I suppose. A bit worried Facebook is going to ruin everything though. I'm not fond of Facebook, to say the least. - Irma Vermaat

Um. - Barry Mitchelson

Oh my... Hopefully FriendFeed won't vanish and good luck :) - Tarmo Aidantausta

Do we call it FaceFeed? FriendBook? - Tyson Key

Oh no.... - Ben Hanten

What does mean for us? - Rich from iPod

Terrible fit. - Matthew DeVries

damn here it is... :( - Edgar Rodríguez

FriendFace!!! (i love it crowd) - Bahriye

*waits for wall-to-wall ads and constant spambots* - Joe Silence is not dead

Die. - Zio Bonino

Congrats - Zoltan Szendro

I dont want FF to end - Fee501st

Wow - Shevonne

Oh mon dio ! - Umar

What did you do? WHYYY! - Zachary TG

Ostregheta. - Reloj

Congrats guys, in a bittersweet sort of way. - Hutch Carpenter

guess there's no way of denying this anymore :( - BCK

Just another lesson in why you shouldn't put your love and trust in a company...... - Matthew DeVries

Oh no! - Erdinc YILMAZEL

Congrats, but I hate Facebook. - Zachary TG

I like Friendfeed and I do not like Facebook. Gratz to you guys though, I think. - Mark Sorrell

"Oh shit..." came to mind immediately. :( - Tyson Key

Scott, yep not encouraged by that comment. :-( - Kol Tregaskes

Congrats on the deal, best wishes to the FF'ers in helping facebook get it together! - Sean O'Connor

This could get exciting, especially concerning twitter :-P - Malte Steckmeister

Congrats for Friendfeed team, but I'm seriously worried for us :((((((((((( - Roberto

Congratulations... I'm sure this is pretty exciting for everyone at FriendFeed... We're all looking forward to where it takes you! - Nathan Chase

And FriendFeed was just getting popular. Not any more. - Zachary TG

Wow - Rodfather

*Sobs* - Tyson Key

wow - Jack Wilson, K4SAC

to the dump - Zachary TG

Wow, very disappointed - Randy Pollock

come on. Bret, facebook is so closed. so different from Friendfeed. besides that. Congrats to the team - Edgar Rodríguez

As am I - Zachary TG

machecazzo - Sba™

VERY disappointed. - Joe Silence is not dead

horrible decision - Randy Pollock

Booo. But, you know, congrats. - Chris Nixon

i'm not sure i'm happy about this. - Taylan Aydınlı

OMG WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SH*T - Alp

Congrats for u guys... probably too bad for us ;-( - Laurent

God, I can see FB shutting down FF just like Six Apart shut down Pownce. - DarknessFalls

arg. - Aron Michalski

Good for you, don't know for all of us - Cristian Conti

@#$& that's all I have to say. For now. - Zachary TG

Facebook should have been aquired by Friendfeed. Why they hell would you give up your better product to a worse one? Did none of you give a shit about this service to begin wiht? - Matthew DeVries

Congrats! - Alix Whitmire

Coolest web 2.0 site I've ever seen & used. I hope things don't derail. Ads will be coming soon, which is fine, but.... then what 's next? Please no quizzes! - Ben Hanten

Who would have thought that after Facebook were shamelessly being "inspired" by FriendFeed, the inevitable would have happened? - Tyson Key

I'm pissed off. I wan to throw away the whole Internet : - DarkBls

Congrats! - Moushumi Kabir

Congrats guys. :) - Meryn Stol

Congratulations. This is awesome for you and for Facebook. - Mike Sego

mommy? - Josh Haley

Hey guys, keep in mind that Facebook is blocked in workplaces across the nation. 250 million casual users commenting about last night's party does not intelligent conversation make. - Hector

FFail - rael

What will happen to my 92 subscribers? - Zachary TG

yes you have just failed at failing, no it is not a double negative. - Bahriye

Tragic. - Shannon

I really can't see how FB would buy FF only to shut it down. There are way too many innovations and features FF has that FB honestly needs. I'm looking forward. - Harry Wolff

congrats! - Jay from ViewPoint

here come the comments - Zachary TG

Congrats? Everybody who's saying Congrats doesn't know what he's saying. Go to hell. - Zio Bonino

Yeah, quizzes are EVIL! - Tarmo Aidantausta

Wow. - Zachary TG

Oh, this does not make me happy. Not at all! I've stayed off of Facebook intentionally and FriendFeed is my favorite social network. This is like when the Red Sox traded Babe Ruth to the Yankees. :>( - Larry Hawes

i have stopped using FB for the most part and liked FF alot more. now FF will go the way of FB. screwed again. - Joe Silence is not dead

Congratulations. Enjoy the new challenges of acquisition, and I'm looking forward to the result! - Wade Dorrell

Berge Gazen beat your score in Mafia Wars - Berge Gazen

Feedface or Facefeed? - Fee501st

FUCK THAT ! [Anyways good job guys ^^] - TiTi

Enjoy your fat paychecks, guys. You've sold us out. - Akiva Moskovitz

Bravo Bret! Been following your successes ever since we had the opportunity to work together on the YellowPages.ca / Google Maps Canada deal. Congrats! - Sebastien

I wished it was Google or even Yahoo!, instead... - Tyson Key

i really hope ff stays as it is. fb is kinder carder while ff is a great tool. - jkkmobile

Facefucked or Fuckfeed? - Matthew DeVries

Not sure what to make of this. It could eiter be a big win or a huge fail. - dorn

It could have been Microsoft, which would have been worse for everyone. :( - Tyson Key

Can I take this opportunity to say I HATE facebook? - Alex Scrivener

seems the only ppl happy here are the ones in the biz or who stand to profit from the merger. - Joe Silence is not dead

I guess we should get ready to get poked by our supposed friends and have various shit thrown at us? Plus 5,000 requests by apps that nearly all suck. - Joey Gibson

There is zero way this could have been a win for anyone, but the now rich founders. - Matthew DeVries

duh - aybars badur

I HATE facebook - Pedram

this is simply awful. - Joe Silence is not dead

If I have to go to FB to use FF then it's a lost cause - Randy Pollock

Painful. And apparently I completely misunderstood what FF was trying to accomplish both technically and as an organization. I guess Facebook must have dangled a pretty big bag of money in front of them. - Ken Sheppardson

FriendFeed is Dead! Long Live FriendFeed! :/ - Tyson Key

Awesome. Please fix Facebook email :) http://fudge.org/too-muc... - Jay Cuthrell

Facebook is going to acquire the web! - l'Ego di Gigi

To me, FriendFeed is like Porsche and Facebook a Kia. I'm curious to see which will become which.. - Moushumi Kabir

Oh noes! - Burcu Dogan

Congrats Bret! - Robin Dindayal

I will reserve judgement, i don't like or use FB but if FF maintains it's current goodness i don't care who cuts the checks. - Steve C

I hope this doesn't turn into an APP filled hunk of crap. I love FriendFeed, it was the untouched gem of microblogging. I don't want Mafia Wars invited in my FriendFeed!!! Congrats on the sale though. - Jay Farmington

Where's the "dislike" option? - Gregor Morrill

+1 Gregor - Tyson Key

accipicchia che pessima notizia - massimo mantellini

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE!!! -_- - Bahriye

I just realized this is like when K-mart bought Sears ... - DarknessFalls

/ponders the meaning of "FriendFeed.com will continue to operate normally for the time being." - Philipp Lenssen

And I will officially be leaving FriendFeed today. - Michael Forian

omg - John μller

@Philipp: until the new masters start flexing their muscles and bringing in their own people to enforce their own vision. - Joe Silence is not dead

I read the blog post and one statement stands out to me "FriendFeed.com will continue to operate normally for the time being." The time being. This is not just bad, I think it may be #FAIL - berchman

Such great news! - Steve Rubel

Not sure what to think of this. - Matthew Speicher

where is dislike button ? - Osman Üngür

OMG! - Zac Bowling

now where did I put my twitter password - Randy Pollock

big mistake :(( - emresezgin

I suppose it will be called FriendFace? http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Phil Harrison

Congratulations, guys!!!!!!!!! - Jess Lee

Oh. Hell. No. - CannonGod

Oh My God! They Killed FriendFeed! - Tyson Key

so the (once)new facebook homepage was actually the tip of the iceberg? - Onur Cengiz

It's a win/win! congrats all. - Alan Le

Time to roll your own Frienfeed clone. - Fırat Can Başarır

Congrats to you. - Evan Travers

Congratulations. I look forward to seeing what this new partnership means for users. - Aren Grimshaw

FF will surely be integrated into FB at some point? - Kol Tregaskes

damn Ken is spot on! +1000 Ken! - vijay

not good. - Jacque

Oh. My. Gosh. - Enrico Lamperti

Facebook obviously liked FriendFeed a long time ago. Why would they have copied so many features (feed item comments and the "Like" action, to name a couple) otherwise? It was only logical for this to happen eventually. Doesn't mean I like it, but acquisition is part of the game. I have the same feeling I did when SocialThing! was acquired by AOL, though. - Voyagerfan5761

"Relationship Status: It's complicated" comes to mind. ;) - Tyson Key

Wow, I finally sign up, and read this. This could end up being a very bad thing for FF fans: "Your FriendFeed friend just signed up on this poll, would you like to too?" - Brian Bommarito

sad... - Marvin

Congrats guys. And thanks for your continuos effort in helping promote and integrate web services, like mine, Wakoopa. That's awesome and I hope FB gets better because of it. - Robert Gaal

This will give FriedFeed the attention it deserves. Otherwise it would have been a geek thing forever. - Michael Netsch

Will there be a super poke feature launched tomorrow? - Matthew DeVries

aw, this sux!! Congrats to the Friendfeed team though! - acedanger

please don't merge logins!!! please - earlyadopter

They are deceived when they suffer themselves to be drawn after the image of things, without seeking for the true reason of them. - The Complex Days

I hope it works OK to you guys! - Rodrigo Jaroszewski

D: - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

+1 Netsch - I still like FF more but this finally legitimizes FF to the mainstream. - Daniel J. Pritchett

Friend request una beata fava. Pecunia non olet. - Federico Bolsoman

Yeah, I really can't wait to see what value the Ashton Kutchers and Oprahs of the world have to add to FriendFeed. - Akiva Moskovitz

Please tell me this is a delayed April Fools' Day joke. - Rochelle

Facebook & FriendFeed: don't cross the lifestreams! D:< - CannonGod

I guess this means I'll have toget a facebook account after all.... Hope the API stays up and running.... - Roberto Bonini

"Were rich B!tch!" - Chappelle - adolfo foronda

Another good thing: This ups the bar for Wave. - Wade Dorrell

What a bunch of greedy assholes. - Zio Bonino

So ? - Ercan Bülbül

Does this mean that we'll be seeing an influx of webcam spammers, a la Twitter? Along with abolishment of the rooms feature, crappification of the search feature, and more "privacy features" that really just put more nails in the openness coffin? - Tyson Key

:( - Pavlo Zahozhenko

Some people will do whatever their friends request........ - Michael Muller

I really don't see why people would be anything but excited about this Facebook freindfeed deal. Great news as far as I am concerned. The Friend feed team is going to go over facebook and make it that much easier to connect, share... isn't that what the social web is about? - Kevin Murray

I know a lot of people who use Facebook and enjoy it and that's fair enough. It's just not my cup of tea. The chaps from Friendfeed will get rich and the technology will get absorbed in Facebook but I can't see Friendfeed continuing in anything like it's present form. - Paul Nash

Don't be so negative, something good might eventually come of this... - Tarmo Aidantausta

The End. - Kaan Ertürk

Congrats! I know you all must be crazy excited right now. - Michele Lorito-Chase

chance for FriendFeed to become more mainstream... congrats FriendFeed team! - Jeroen De Miranda

Nothing could make me happier than if they integrated the good tools from FriendFeed into Facebook, which is where all my friends are. So a big "yay!" from me. - Ian Betteridge

happy for you guys, but not for all of us - Flavio

congratulations. this is going to be interesting. - Dave Beckett

I think I preferred the non-mainstream version of FriendFeed... - Tyson Key

I'm turning on my black shirt, my black trouser, my black socks, my black shoes. Although I probably must be happy for you. - Ton Zijp

NASTY NASTY BAD BAD. But we'll see... - Daniel Morgan

Game over. - stark

yeah removing feed also works. - Bahriye

Reminds me so much of Last.fm fall... - Marcos

Given that the FriendFeed team has never been anything but awesome & respectful of its community, I think it's unfair for people to assume that the Facebook acquisition is going to change that. - Jess Lee

Why in god's name are we flying over this shark?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! - Matthew DeVries

Facebook is like a giant who listens to nobody. Please keep your attitude but I don't think you will be able to do so. - Burak "cyrus" Bayburtlu

Noooooooo...... - Sung W. Lim

yeahhh - Çağrı Burak

NO - Cristian Conti

Congrats! That sucks. - Rutger Blom

Where is that evidence Jess? - Matthew DeVries

I don't know, Like it? or dislike it? - Ömer Balamir

What happens to all the content that we've created and imported here, and the associated metadata? Will all that disappear into the ether? - Tyson Key

If the FriendFeed guys can make FaceBook useful and responsive again, this seems like a pretty positive step! - Robin Barooah

Robin, the Facebook users don't want that I'm afraid. - Rutger Blom

I have big loss of data concerns. See http://ff.im/6pHjo Is there any way to archive all my FriendFeed posts, likes, comments, and pictures (friendfeed-media.com) off-line? Can some Archive.org-like snapshots of FriendFeed be made (Once a month starting Sept 2009)? I'd like to see the cross-links between my posts & other people's posts, even in 2020. - - Mitchell Tsai

Mitchell: the FriendFeed site is not shutting down. Your data will not go away any time in the near term future - we are committed to our users. - Bret Taylor

I just overheard a coworker mention FriendFeed. This is how the world ends... - CannonGod

kafa sayımı yapıp köyü satan ağalar geldi aklıma - Alper Ömer Esin

Then provide us with a way to easily make a back-up of all of our posts and all of the posts we have Liked and Commented on. - Akiva Moskovitz

Same question as Mitchel Tsai. How do I export my data? I don't want it to be handed off to Facebook. - Zio Bonino

Near term future? - Kol Tregaskes

I don't see good things coming from this. Although I like Facebook, I liked Friendfeed more. Partly because of the environment and the smallness of it. That is now going to be ruined. So, 10-1 odds that Friendfeed will be no more within a year after it gets intergrated into Facebook? - Mathew™ one of a kind

I doubt it Robin. Bret can only give us assurances about the "near future." Here's what I think will happen. Just like Twitter acquired Rael Dornfest and his awesome web services, Stikkit and I Want Sandy vanished (and so did he), Facebook will acquire all the talent from Friendfeed, shut this service down and Facebook will continue to suck. - Jim Hearts FF

Same question as Mitchel Tsai. How do I export my data? I don't want anything to be handed off to Facebook. And I don't want to lose anything. - Zio Bonino

Congrats obviously, but im not sure about the feeling,, different user groups which can not integrate but collide.. hope there wont be an huge integration in the future. - Yunus Tunak

I'm happy for FriendFeed! But, at the same time a bit worried about the future. Hope you guys convince FB to not be evil too. - Vishal Verma

http://friendfeed.com/sunipey... - sunipeyk

Let's hope this is like Disney's acquisition of Pixar - wherein the Pixar guys ended up in control of the animation studio... - Robin Barooah from IM

Where the f*ck is this option to undo ? - Laurent

Odd that this thread gets modded? - Matthew DeVries

I seriously thought this was a joke. Looks like its not. I don't like it, sorry. - Michael Lynton

Does anyone want to start a bounty to purchase Facebook? ;) - Tyson Key

#FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL #FAIL - Jacque

Congratulations! - John Craft

can't be, shouldn't be... - Kemal

It is! Change is inevitable, my friends. - Bill Sodeman

Jim, I'm less cynical than you - the FriendFeed founders wouldn't do this just in order to become 'talent' at FaceBook. - Robin Barooah

So will we be playing FriendFeed Mafia Wars at some point in the future? Ugh. - Alex Hellstrom

I feel if I should be wearing a black arm band. But I guess when I think about it.............. - Kevin J Hatton

Oh No! I don't like this at all :( - Peter

WTF! Horrible Bret, this the death of FriendFeed.. you know that right? - CW™

I still think Apple will acquire Facebook, Twitter Friendfeed and Google Twitter. - Thomas Power

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! - Stephen Francoeur

My condolences to all Friendfeeders! RIP! - Evgeni Leshtanski

AAAAwwwful! - carolh

I can't believe it! damn! facebook tos will apply to friendfeed too? should i start to move to another service? why anyone would think that facebook public is friendfeed public?! damn! friedfeed was my favorite! I can't understand this move! they want to kill friendfeed or what? - paula simoes ☃

"I bet I can find 1.000.0000 people who dislike this deal."...Welcome to FriendBook. - Jacque

Well, huge congraulations to you and your team, you deserve every success. To be honest I had presumed this would happen sooner or later - the only business model cool little startups have is to hope they get bought by someone bigger for their brains and technology. I'm going to be in San Francisco in a couple of weeks and was going to stop by your office to bring you a cake and thank you for a great product - maybe I still will if you're still there and there's still a FriendFeed! - Alex Lomas

The FF founders must have know this would be a very unpopular move. Most users I know here are not too fond of FB. - Rutger Blom

damn, damn, damn... - Kemal

One of the sadest news for Internet and web creativity :( - DarkBls

Woah woah... This is real? - Jason Huebel

"Your data will not go away any time in the near term future - we are committed to our users" There's a bit of a contradiction in your statement, Bret. Nice try though. - jcunwired

Now I can break my Internet plan at home. - DarkBls

Grats Bret and the rest of FF. To all the naysayers... Lets see what happens before we start bitching.... - Rasmus Lauridsen

wow!! dazed and confused!! - Roberto Arancibia

I don't hate Facebook, but for sharing things Friendfeed is MUCH MUCH better! - Mathew™ one of a kind

I wonder if that Ben Darnell guy who *just* left the Google reader team knew about this beforehand? Wonder what he's thinking now? (http://friendfeed.com/friendf...) - Daniel J. Pritchett

Just great. I'm certainly not very happy about this. Let's just hope FB doesn't ruin FF. Ugh. - Elena

Who cares? Nothing's gonna change in our pitiful lifes. - bluretina

:| - Amin BZ

This ties in nicely with the fact that you soon will have the opportunity to make your Facebook profiles public and get followers there. - Michael Netsch

чатег номер два - лето ближе с каждым днем

Congrats Bret! this is so great! many congrats!!! - Jason Pollock

That is capitalism for you. Luckely, there still good 'ol usenet. - Peter

Is it April 1st somewhere in the universe? - Robert Felty

#ROFLMAO Is there anything more important than money? It seems NOT #ROFLMAO - Lora Lufark

I don't mean to be negative but there's got to be a win-win logic to each merger&acquisiton. Audience high in only quantity is clearly not a win for friendfeed in the long term by considering its unique selling points. Let's wait and see who will benefit from friendfeed's death now. - ayca

It's all about the money. I would have payed a couple of dollars each month to use FF. - Rutger Blom

#DONTSELLMYFRIENDFEED - sunipeyk

Seriously, what is this? It's like Bret just announced that he's killed all your mothers or something. It could turn out good, it could turn out bad, but at the end of the day, who cares, it's just a website (I mean honestly, come on). I could see it going either way, but in the near term, this is a pretty big win for the FF team, so congrats guys. - Chieze Okoye

OMG! - keso

To be honest, my heart sank a little but I am happy to congratulate you and the team for building such a good brand. Well done. - Kevin J Hatton

I'm just surprised, that's all. I'm not saying this is a bad thing (it certainly isn't for the owners of FF). I'm willing to sit back and see what happens. - Jason Huebel

Wow, I specifically use friendfeed b/c it is not facebook. Sounds great for the friendfeed team, but not necessarily for friendfeed users. - Evan Parker

Born to be sold, like in the old "new economy" era. Remember the late nineties? - Federico Bolsoman

Sudden desire to check out Strands again... but hey, kudos on the incoming $$ for FF team - Leslie Poston

#DONTSELLMYFRIENDFEED - Kemal

This is wisdom. Bracing for Google Wave is a good idea............. - Kevin J Hatton

this is clearly a talent aquisition... why am i not excited about this? could it be because facebook has been blatantly stealing features from friendfeed shamelessly. Likes were clearly not an original facebook idea...realtime feeds is another i could go on... - Tate DA FF MVP

While I'm sad, because I suspect this means the best things about FF will disappear or I'll be forced to use FB in some way, if the buyout was for some awesome amount of money, I can't say I blame 'em for taking an offer -- I would. - Andy Bakun

I came to FriendFeed because I don't like facebook. Now the question is, will facebook become more like friend feed? or will they just take friend feed and turn it into facebook? - Tom Ray

FF could be a good R&D arm for facebook. - Andy Bakun

My biggest concern here is that FB has a completely different audience than FF. - Rutger Blom

Fucking morons. FriendFeed is doomed now. Think logically. Facebook has NO REASON to keep FriendFeed alive. It will simply take FF's best features, suck the life of out of it, then trash FF. Way to go, FirnedFeed, damn. - Jeremy Buff

Fail. - Big K

Big Fail! - OnuRC

This announcement should have been held off until the plans for Friendfeed were known. Regardless, this is *bad* for FF users. Best case: it continues on, but with stagnated feature development. Worst case: it's gone. - tollie williams

wtf ?! - Umut

I need to install "super PUKE" application ! - Bart LePoole

http://ff.im/6pQcu - Bahriye

FFail. - rowlikeagirl

I don't want my FF feed on Facebook :( I use both, but maintain both profiles separate - Leandro Ardissone ⍨

Sigh... Happy for the team if this is what they want, but baffled by the move. The users that are going to leave because of this will make FF a graveyard and the users it gains, well... Hello spam? Sorry, but I don't like it. - Vince DeGeorge from iPhone

JEREMY+++++1 - Ahmet Alp Balkan

Wow! - felix

Well, I guess it is time to dismantle my friendfeed. We all know where this is headed. So, so glad I didn't move all my rss feeds from greader to friendfeed like so many cheerleaders suggested. - Matthew Speicher

Jeremy +1 - F. Batuhan Icoz

so what's next? where should we go? - Flavio

It's been fun here. - Capn' One Eye - adrift

Dang, and just as I was starting to get used to how FF works. FF is useful on it's own. I hope this only improves FF's system, rather than having it disappear into Facebook's wake. - Don Faulkner

My big question to everybody here is this: What are the potential downsides / upsides to this acquisition? I mean on paper I just don't see what the pros OR cons are. I don't care for Facebook but I don't see how them acquiring FF is going to change everything. - Nicholas Kreidberg

furthermore they are 2 different things: I follow a lot of people here that are not in my facebook list, which is for IRL friends! - Flavio

I don't know where to go next either. I had just settled down to make imaginary friends for all my non-FF tweeps, etc. now, I'm not sure if I should bother. - Don Faulkner from IM

I hope friendfeed continues to operate normally but it does not look good. - ashish

integrate best features of ff to fb, then try to innovate in fb if possible, then kill ff... that's it, cheers, all the best. grrrr... - Kemal

niczak has good points. FF & FB aren't exactly competitors, but they aren't orthogonal either. Let's hope FB's smart enough to see the difference and improve both platforms. - Don Faulkner from IM

Nicholas: The upside for Facebook is they just bought an engineering team that's built many of the feature's Facebook's going to need to stay competitive. The upside for FriendFeed's engineering team is $$$ and the ability to build system for a wider audience. FriendFeed's user base is small enough that it'll either get absorbed into Facebook or move on, and FF will become a footnote on the Internet timeline. - Ken Sheppardson

Don, I don't think FB wants to maintain two platforms. - Rutger Blom

first tr.im (heard about it yesterday), now this. I wasn't a heavy tr.im user (yet), but sad to see it go, even if I think url shortening is silly. - Don Faulkner from IM

As FB said they're interested in the people and not in the site, what if the community will keep running FF without its current staff? - Flavio

Congratulations! - Sam Grover

Flavio, that's not very realistic I'm afraid, but I like the idea. - Rutger Blom

rutgerblom, I don't expect they do either, thus my angst over this. - Don Faulkner from IM

if there's a team willing to do it and money, and if we accept some ads as everywhere else, we could make a new FF without FB - Flavio

I have worked hard in avoiding signing up for FB. Does this mean I now automatically will be on FB by virtue of my FF account? - Tony Vota from iPhone

Tony, most likely - Rutger Blom

read carefully: http://blog.socialthing.com/2009... - Kemal

I'll have to go with Flavio's position too. Given this news (plus tr.im and who knows who's next), I'd tend to favor community supported or federated services for things like this in the future. - Don Faulkner from IM

I am purposely not on facebook because I don't really want to talk to people I have not talked to in 20 years. - Andy Bakun

God help us - Johnny

Once again. I'm happy for the FF team. They worked hard and now collect. That's fair. Wonder if they're sitting in a bubble pool drinking champagne while we cry out here ;-) - Rutger Blom

Congrat Bret!! :)) - Cihan Cepni

trouble is (from my perspective), that the philosophies of the two platforms are at odds. FB wants to bring people to the site and keep them there, while FF is a hub, bringing people in and then sending them back out. (That's part of why it's hard for the newcomer to understand, IMHO.) - Don Faulkner from IM

This almost confirms FF will disappear: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Kol Tregaskes

Great point, Don. - Rutger Blom

+1 Don - Johnny

Does this mean I can throw someone a sheep on FriendFeed now? - Pinksy

I sure hope so, Rutger. I glad for their success too. I just hope there's a next best thing out there for us. - Don Faulkner from IM

Congrats all. Nice work, in spite of any naysaying out there. Keep up the innovation. - Tomas Remotigue

LOLI FFAIL - rael

lame. - andy brudtkuhl

This should be good news for Twitter. - Rutger Blom

post the picture to failblog... - Kemal

Quote «Taylor and Cox say that the Friendfeed product will live on independently, and eventually Friendfeed will be merged into Facebook. But the Friendfeed team is not being kept whole. Some employees will now report to Cox, others to engineering head Mike Schroepfer. In my opinion that means, long term, the Friendfeed product itself is unlikely to be a big priority.¶ But Facebook is... more... - Philipp Lenssen

+1 Kol for the techcrunch article! - Don Faulkner from IM

techcrunch: "Cox agreed, noting that Facebook is focused on being a platform and a service, and not just a destination site." I certainly hope so! - Don Faulkner from IM

Brilliant move by both Facebook and friendfeed. Congratulations!!! I have theories of what they have planned, but I doubt you would verify any of them. This is going to go so well with their SocialTV which they have been developing. I'm so happy for you! - Michael Fidler

Really saddened by this news. - Doug

Noooooooooooooooooooooo! - LouCypher

I don't see what's so bad about it since no one knows right now what the outcome will be, everyone is just making assumptions that could possibly be wrong..... Might help just sitting back and seeing what happens first before complaining. - ChaCha Fance

Nooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrghh! I´ve resisted getting a facebook acct for so long... - Thomas Bøhm

ChaCha, if everybody would do that there would not be much discussion would there? This is part of the fun. - Rutger Blom

I wonder how the discussion over on facebook would compare to this? - Don Faulkner from IM

Drat! - Gee Ekachai

congrats guys! - Elad

Don, I doubt there is any discussion going on there. They're too busy throwing quizes at each other. - Rutger Blom

Congrats, FF! I'm approaching the situation with cautious optimism. A lot of my friends only share stuff via the Facebook wall/feed, so if Facebook is able to make their feed more like the FF feed (i.e. good, instead of sucktacular) through this acquisition, it's mostly a win for me in the end. - Brian Chang

At least my Feedburner stats might go back to normal again. - Rutger Blom

/me pokes Rutger. (just getting in practice. ;) - Don Faulkner from IM

Where will we go for the FFunderCats, bacon memes, and angry artists fighting over photo reshares now? ;) - Tyson Key

Don, LOL :-) - Rutger Blom

If anybody has doubts as to what happens to the FriendFeed community or our stored information here, read this statement from Bret (in this thread) "Your data will not go away any time in the near term future - we are committed to our users". Now maybe you can see "whats so bad about it" and curb your optimism. Not good. - jcunwired

Congrats FF. Fix their live feed situation please. - Edward Barnieh

@josh: do you think FB will throw away all the crap people use? various quiz, pick 5 and so on? - Flavio

@jc: our data will not go away in the near future. what will be in few months? in a year? - Flavio

Let's see if you can do a bit better than just not being evil this time around. - Tim Tyler

Wooohooo!!, seems like we are being sent back to "good" old Facebook. Congrats Bret!! - Danli

Looks like I'm going to repeat the same thing many others did. My first reaction was "Oh my..." I have refused to join Facebook due to its philosophy while I have been with FriendFeed from the beginning for its. I'm sad and somewhat apprehensive. - Sean Leather

Congrats. I suppose this means the end of FriendFeed but hopefully a better Facebook. - Harry Toon

Hmm. Interesting. - Ralf Becker

Add me to the fearful group. - beersage

Please say that facebook.com will be shutting down, and the combined company will still be called FriendFeed... I bet it won't happen, though. - Tyson Key

"Regarding FB/FF - Here's how it's [probably] going to work. You will most likely have an account merge, all of the services FriendFeed supports will now be aggregated on Facebook, and all of your FriendFeed friends will be in a "list" on Facebook. The FF Groups will become Facebook Groups. The FF lists will become Facebook Lists." http://ff.im/6pNxq - Ozgur Uckan

Nothing like an early retirement payout :) - Owen Greaves

Congrat Bret - Nimaa

Panic attack. Congratulations, however! :) - Freylekhe dreydl

Congratulations Bret. For me this merger makes a lot of sense. Facebook will provide the "quantity" of users, which friendfeed deserves :). - Karthick R

:( - goodmachine

FriendFeed + Facebook... Oh noes FriendFace is coming (http://www.youtube.com/watch...)! Now sorry for that link, and seriously, thanks for your work, guys. Please don't let the spirit of FriendFeed to be blown away =) - Anton

СУКИ-СУКИ-СУКИ!!!! - Viktor

hey, that is great guys! interested to see how you integrate. - Brian Walsh

Mind blown. Never expected this. I'm also disappointed, yet optimistic at the same time. - Angus Burton

Kinda curious to see how this will all pan out...although i wouldnt want the friendfeed stuff just integrated into facebook. I feel like im among a group of people who i genuinely share interests with here...dont want to lost that. - Cassidy

Best case: Facebook will continue to support and develop FriendFeed. Worst case: this is great news for Amplifeeder. - David Gaw

aieeeeeeeeeee - Richard Akerman

FAIL. Facebook is the new myspace, and now friendfeed will become a part of that BS. Can't say I'm too surprised because eventually we all sell out. BTW I don't see friendfeed lasting more than the rest of this year, if that. The good news is that we can all be subjected to add 'Are you related to a monkey?' and Blackjack apps while having annoying personal ads on our profile pages. Fuck this shit. - Tomy Thomson

Well done, well deserved, I hope FB's means and infrastructures empower your guys to even better things. But if quizzes appear in "my" friendfeed, evil things will haunt you and your descendents for 3 generations. - Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)

:( - Eph Zero

Well done Bret! - Alemsah Ozturk

♪ ♪ This is the end.... beautiful friends ♪ ♪ - All for design

Well, I don't see the point of sticking around here if I have accounts in both and this is going to get swallowed whole into Facebook anyways. Put simply, goodbye. - Micah Collard

It was fun while it lasted. - Mr. Gunn

NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! This place will be just like twitter... - The Count Rob

Congrats to the FF team - you've built a wonderful product! - Michael Nielsen

Whattttttttttttttttttttt??? - Nibi

The social community that has been behind FriendFeed creators have built a wonderful product. Only problem is, we don't have Zuck's checkbook :( - jcunwired

friendfeed is a beautiful product, only god knows what facebrook will do to it. Hopefully the ability to upload files (such as mp3s) will not be removed. Zuck is a tool. - Nibi

Congratulations. I'm sorry to say that I don't plan to move with you. - Lars Juhl Jensen

I don't like this.... - Zeki Pehlivan

"Like" to follow this thread. Not because I like what happened. I'm horrified. FF could disappear now. - Kamilah Gill

Same here, Kamilah. - Tyson Key

If FriendFeed had invented the "don't like" button, today would have been the day to press it. - Vishal Verma

and I just bought BuddyFeed for my iPhone this weekend. :( - Don Faulkner from IM

Oh, joy, Facebook's privacy policy is upon us! - Joris

WTF?? NOOOOO!!! Why do such good things have to be ruined by greed? Screw Facebook, and goodbye Friendfeed. - Jason R. Hunter

congratulations! - Loic Le Meur

Facebook is lucky to have such a talented group of people ... Congratulations FriendFeed! - Rob Kurrus

doesn't look like a bad joke, better be for the good then, but... Well congrats anyway guys, you did something AWESOME now let's see where Mark takes it - Dobromir Hadzhiev

That's too bad. Liked the openness if FriendFeed, and the lack crap that is on Facebook. Once FriendFeed dies, it will be Twitter only. - Mike D.

Congrats, but concerned that FriendFeed and its tools may disappear. Merging the tools with Facebook seems impossible. - Mike Reynolds

Congrats guys (and gals) ! - Benjy Weinberger

So, what does the acquisition of FriendFeed by Facebook mean to us, users of both websites: Can I make a friend request from FriendFeed, and be approved for both, on one click - Reyna Carlos

Exciting news guys. I am actually looking forward to your collaboration with / work for FB. No matter what people may or may not like about FB, it does succeed in reaching a more "diverse" audience compared to most other Web 2.0/social web companies. Paired with your team's excellence in realizing features that succeed in pleasing the geekiest of Web 2.0 affine individuals, I think you are steering towards exciting waters :) - Mustafa K. Isik

*heart sinks* actually a bit of shock - I think that Facebook will leave Friendfeed as-is but I don't think there is hope for future innovation in Friendfeed since their best superstar team members will be pulled onto 'more important' Facebook issues... - Pon

And the metastasizing, walled-garden that is Facebook, continues to eat the Web. Bring on Google Wave. - Christopher A Carr

:-) + :-( very happy for the team, huge achievement, hoping to see export of innovation but not a shut down of this unique community and location - Majento

There goes FriendFeed down the toilet. well I WAS having a good day. until hearing this crap! - Scratch5150

Congratulations, and best wishes for your future together! :-) - Ruchira S. Datta

Wow, I was beginning to use Friendfeed as my defacto social site...Facebook is more for real life friends. They'll just take what makes Friendfeed great, add it to Facebook and slowly kill this site. - Manuel Mas

What is the big deal? I think it'll make FF bigger and better. You should be happy about that! - orionstarr

Somebody has to got pay for it. - orionstarr

I am disappointed. I don't want to have to go to Facebook to do what i do here. I can not imagine they will port over all the features we enjoy here. We lose a lot for only a slight benefit to Facebook. - Robert

It could be worse, myspace could've bought them lol... - orionstarr

Awful news for users but congratulations to you guys. Ideally, FB will run FF as a distinct service but I'm not hopeful. I don't want the diversity and noise that facebook brings - people doing quizzes on which movie star they resemble and playing silly games. I also wanted to keep my day to day social activity distinct from the targeted information and discussion I use FF for. - Rajit

Only just started taking a serious look at FF after hearing acquisition by FB. Sounds like I'm laggard rather than a leader in use of web 2.0 - ManojRanaweera

I think how Pon said it is what I'm feeling: *heart sinks*. - Andy Bakun

Congratulations, i am really happy for you guys!! :) - Mona Nomura

I'm not a Facebook fan, but can't begrudge the FF gang their chance to reap the rewards for all their hard work. However, it would be a shame if FB ruins the good thing we all have going here. - Ken Morley

So what now? a name change too? FriendFace? FeedBook? FaceFeed? god Facebook really sucks. oh well. Adds anyone? - Scratch5150

Congrats to the FF team... I hope the service doesn't disappear into a fold of light and heat. - Brandon

if all the things that make FF great are brought to FB then I'll be happy to use it - Mike Chelen

The community won't be there. Been on FB longer than any other, don't have nearly the relationship or sense of community there that I do here or on Twitter. - Karoli

Karoli: that is due to the effectiveness of the FF platform and interface, which help to join conversations and find interesting people more so than FB does - Mike Chelen

Mike: I suspect that FB wants FF for the search possibilities, not the community-building aspects. But we'll see. - Karoli

i guess congrats are in order, but I'm going to now go and remove everything I have that feeds into FF, and I have to ask -- do I have any rights over my archive? I have a private feed, and I have no interest in offering up my lifestream to the FaceBook data-miners. I hope the FF folks get what they hope for out of the deal, but my FriendFeed experience has been effectively killed. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan

I just learned about the FF acquisition by Facebook - WOW~! Congratulations Bret, Paul and FF team!! holy cow ........Mooooooooo! Where's the FF Acquisition Party? :) - Susan Beebe

Friendfeed after Facebook http://ff.im/6q5EY - Ozgur Uckan

Wow thats cool! - AbZ from Nambu

RT @alirizaesin FriendFeed, R.I.P. Home tweet home!.. - Ozgur Uckan

Congrats to facebook. Now, Twitter is the best. - Ebru Baranseli

Congratulations to the FriendFeed guys on the Facebook Acquisition. Not a big fan of Facebook, so I hope my favorite Uber Aggregator, Realtime Social, Microblogging site of awesomeness is not entirely absorbed into the Facebook infrastructure. I wait with baited breath to hear what "normally for the time being" means ;). - Tom Horn

Can I now have comments propagate in both directions as far as Facebook/Friendfeed is concerned? - Piaw Na

*checks date*. Damn .. not April 1st, must be for real. While I'm happy for the FF team, since I guess this is what they wanted (congrats guys!), I can't help but think this is the beginning of the end for a great service and a vibrant community. There are reasons I don't spend any time on Facebook and do spend lots of time on FF, and some kind of "FF integrated into Facebook" just won't cut it. I hope this service will live on for at least a few more years. - Andrew Perry

Gratz to the FF team but as a user I'm not completely happy. In short, I like the FF team/product much more than I like the FB team/product. Best of luck to all. - timepilot

Dang! I've killed another site! Sorry guys... FF was doing fine until I started coming here again! Same with Pownce! Went there and liked it... went underground for a spell... came back and still liked it, so I stayed. A few months later... BOOM! I have the touch! (I'm thinking I'll start devoting a lot of time to Twitter... maybe I can kill that one, too!) - Mark "DerBingle" J

Все, блядь, пиздец! - ǝuǝƃnǝ

WOW - very happy for all of you :-) - Kishore Balakrishnan

Bret, congrats on the acquisition. You guys put in a lot of hard work to create this community. I just hope you learned the mistakes Pownce made, Jaiku etc, and ensured that you didn't sell out your community, but that you helped it evolve into something as great as this into something better. Good luck in future endeavors! - Mike Lewis

Oh yeah? Ok: take tour money and go to the hell. :-((( - Claude LaFrenière

Yay for you guys, I mean that seriously, I 'like' what this means for you personally, but -1000000 cool points for doing it with FB. Sad day. - Threepwood

Karoli: FF search is so useful because it is integrated with all the other great features that help to find relevant content. if FB wants to have a similar capability, they must also develop the underlying architecture. - Mike Chelen from IM

Sucks big time. - Drea

Sadness - Yasin Jason

I can't believe this happened - Johnny

Suggested name: FailFriend. :-((( - Claude LaFrenière

Friend facebooks feed (FFF) - Filiz Koyuncu

«Experience shows that those who never trust anyone will never be disappointed.» Leonardo da Vinci - Claude LaFrenière

So what exactly is going to happen? Is FF eventually going to disappear? Will it merge into the Facebook interface? Please don't do that - Ethan

Gimme my OPML export - Sriks7

Money is the root of all evil - Shakeel Mahate

shakeel, the reasons for friendfeed to join facebook are probably about other things besides money, since many of the FF staff left high-paying jobs to join in the first place - Mike Chelen from IM

Well I've thought about it, and I'll stick around until I start seeing that crappy Facebook logo, I only have 71 subscribers here, I hate to do it but I'll probably scrap the whole thing and start over somewhere else. still can't believe that shit. - Scratch5150

Congrats, team! It's bittersweet, though. - Anne Bouey

So now we will have FriendFeed blocked at work too. Darn. - Mark Scrimshire

"Your data will not go away any time in the near term future" is not exactly inspiring for the long term for those of us who came here to escape Facebook for a) it's walled garden and b) privacy concerns. Nice for the Founders to make a pile of cash but for the many of us, it feels like we got sold down the river. Sad. - Sally Church

This is tragic. Tragic. Tragic. - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

cacarr: updates for FB have progressed rapidly in the past, count how many months since new features such as api calls and site redesigns have have been implemented - Mike Chelen from IM

I can't believe it either. I feel as if — for the moment — I am lost in the wilderness, adrift. - roamin

Congratulation to the FF team! You guys deserves this. I just hope that Facebook does not change the directions of FF. - Vinko

congrats, I'm happy for friendfeed... - amelia arapoff

Congrats you guys, well deserved. - Shey, Jamaican of FF

Congrats Bret! Hope the transition goes smoothly for you guys. - Cristo

I hope this means better integration: liking here will auto-like on fb and such :D if that's the case, I won't mind the ads *wink* *wink* - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

Franc, cant stand facebook ads in their current format, hope they will be fixed eventually :P - Mike Chelen from IM

Grats, dont spend it all in one place..... - Robert Higgins

congrads. I think it will be good for BOTH companies. - Logan Lindquist

boo. - kelly

The Borg has struck. Alas. Prepare to be assimilated. (Will FB add my FF subscriptions to my FB friends list?) - Dennis Jernberg

Boo - Amit Morson

Logan: What do you mean by "both" companies? - Christopher A Carr

Now that you guys have $$$ you should swap out the not so very pleasing default avatar! - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

Hope you guys enjoy your new jobs. Meanwhile we get to watch a great alternative to Facebook with a promising future go down the tubes. A really sad and unfortunate day. - Todd Holmes

BOO! Hiss! Mondays really do suck. - Dale

Congratulations to all the FriendFeed team. I hope you'll be able to keep the FriendFeed spirit up at Facebook. Kudos for all the great work you've been doing. - Paul Papadimitriou

Congrats and good luck.. - Can Koklu

Thanks for all the fish. Saving the so long... for now. - abacab

Goodbye FF, it was wonderful.. - Francesco Cugurra

I use FriendFeed and Facebook so it would be awesome to see FF features in Facebook. Congratulations! - krzychukula from IM

judging by the nearly 600 comments as i type this, including my own earlier one, FF could use a Don't Like button as well. or would, if we were going to be using it much longer. - kelly

Nice, i like to wish you all the best for your new job (and it's really hard, i know). I'm happy, but... don't let die FF!! - Seo (ignobile) Guru

Hope FriendFeed remains open. Love the spirit of FF - Bernaldo Barrena

Seriously, what a coincidence! Just on Saturday I claimed to be both twitter- and facebook-free. I loved FF product and personally helped to bring at least a dozen of my friends into the community. I'll stick around for a while though. - ǝuǝƃnǝ

This deal makes sense, now fb developers do not need to figure out how ff does it because they can just ask! Congrats facebook and ff! - Garin Kilpatrick

I suppose Facebook had to do it, with Twitter and Google Wave as competitor... - Alexander Kruel

обычные дела. http://www.youtube.com/watch... - ǝuǝƃnǝ

Congratulations Friendfeed :D - paniaguai

Ok. I'll quit friendfeed, so. Goodbye. Ciao - valerio fiandra from iPhone

I am noticing a lot of people going to re-esumate their lifestream.fm account now! - Flavio

I don't think FB acquiring FF is bad. But I don't think it's good either. We'll see. :-) In the meantime, keep up the good work! - Alexander Gieg

Oh shit. Love FF, hate FB. I'll NEVER, EVER merge my two accounts. I'd rather unsub from both than merging. I'll wait for the developments, and in the meantime look for an alternative. - Alliandre (la Ippe)

How long until ex-FriendFeed employees start jumping ship from Facebook? I wonder... - Tyson Key

Thomas Power still believes that Facebook/FF/Linkedin (2010) will be acquired by Apple (2011) and this is a transitional acquisition in the SN market cycle. The world is shifting to Mac, iTunes, iPhones and FB own the next generation. Apple have $29bn of cash on deposit price is not an issue. Google must jump for twitter while MS fiddle in the sticks with Yahoo. BillG will be back at the MS helm 2012. - Penny Power

:( Happy for FF people, sad for the service. Was going to move from fb to ff this week.. - Martynas

congrats! - Ronald

thts good!so i can workin both in my Fb online next - Arini dewi muchtaram

Flavio: never heard of lifestream.fm before, but I'm going to go check it out. I'll reiterate, though, that I'm now shy of any service like this, since it can disappear just as it's getting good. I heard about sweetcron.com last night (via http://ff.im/6pR2w). Maybe it's time to move from centralized to distributed again. - Don Faulkner

Just finished setting up my lifestream.fm at http://lifestream.fm/dfaulkner. Lifestream does what it says, and no more. FF's search blows lifestream away. FF is more flexible about adding source feeds, but lifestream does fine without the flexibility I suppose. FF still wins, or would, if I thought it would be sticking around. :P - Don Faulkner

Must See - Hitler blows up over Facebook / FriendFeed - http://friendfeed.com/dffrnt... - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

Dave, I'm not happy. That video gave me some much needed comic relief .. after waking up to this news. - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

good for you, bad for us - Zachary Earl Strader

I also hate facebook, not because of their silly quizzes and pokes, but because I suspect they would like to maintain massive user base as the determining factor in choosing a social network. I would love to switch to orkut as I use so many other google services, but I can't because nobody else does. That should not be my criteria.... I thought friendfeed would try to make social networks work together. - Ru Viljoen

I don't understand why everyone is so negative about the situation? - orionstarr

@orionstarr - it's like Starbucks buying your neighborhood coffee shop and saying it still cares about the customers. You know it's just not going to be the same as what you've come to love. - Robin Barooah

Presumably FF will go on the back burner - and the team will try and "fix" Facebook. - Tim Tyler

sad, sad, sad. - scott willeke

Congratulations! That's huge. I hope all is well. - Juan Bruce

bad bad bad - kakilang

bye bye friendfeed! - Jonathan Crossland

Why-eee!!! ??? What next? - Wayne Lewis

I've watched Facebook morph from a relatively organised and well implemented social networking tool into the hulking mess it is now - and I really, really hope that a similar thing doesn't happen here with the inevitable changes this will bring about. - Leslie Moore

Come on guys, out with the long-term game plan, this is tedious. - Andrew Eglinton

NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, I mean Cool. - sofarsoShawn

Teach Facebook how to be FriendFeed. Let the small but fast teach the big but slow. Don't forget what Paul says - don’t be evil. - whatidiscover

thefluffanutta

Does any body actually *use* FriendFeed? I mean, *really* use it, on a daily basis, and not just as a link dump?

August 10 - Comment - Like - Share

Yes, about 700,000 people do, small compared to Twitter but some are really serious about their FriendFeed. - DarknessFalls

Not I. - Kimberly Adams

Micah Wittman to Micah's feed, FriendFeed Hacks, FriendFeed Feedback, Appetite

friendfeedCommentBottomLink - released today (greasemonkey script): Adds a Comment Link to the bottom of a FriendFeed Post thread [EDIT: v0.3 now with options to 1) hide comment-banned posts, and 2) disable enter key submits comment - NOTE: See functionality caveat in comments] http://userscripts.org/scripts...

April 28 - Comment - Like - Share

roamin, Myrna, Svartling and 74 other people liked this

Featured image: http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Micah Wittman

78 more comments

Did a quick update to version 0.2 - The [Comment] link was getting sandwiched as new comments appeared in realtime. Fixed! - Micah Wittman

Would you please have it disable itself on individual thread pages? (Since the comment box appears by default.) - Vezquex: God of FF

vezquex - excellent point. Version 0.21 has the fix ("Bottom Comment link is not needed on a permalink page since the comment field is open by default. Fixed.") and it's ready for download http://userscripts.org/scripts... - Micah Wittman

I just upgraded earlier today and now the comment link isn't showing up at all :-( I miss it - Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕

zoblue, are you on v0.23 ? There's been a quick succession of releases. - Micah Wittman

Thanks...This is really helpful - Arafat Hossain Piyada

You're most welcome, piyadasworld :) - Micah Wittman

thank-you from the bottom of my heart.... - David HC Soul

David, just doing my part to reduce frustration-induced casting of stones :) #civil (appreciate the words - you're welcome). - Micah Wittman

Ah, that did it, I uninstalled then reinstalled and now it's up to the latest version 0.23. YAY!!!! - Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕

Doesn't work in Chrome. :-( - Kol Tregaskes

Kol, are you on Chrome on XP/Vista? Inside a VM? Is your script file in C:\scripts and named friendfeedcommentbottomlink.user.js ? - Micah Wittman

Coolness! Is there a way I can align the [Comment] text to the left rather than the center? I tried modding the code, but I'm not good at parsing javascript. EDIT: I'm also using AJ's Cleaner FriendFeed style, if that makes a difference. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Jandy, yep, just give me a second. *scanning code...* - Micah Wittman

Jandy, line 79 (or there abouts) starts with: [CODE]$(this).after('<div class="bottomCommentLinkDiv" style="margin:-.5em 0 1em 40%">[/CODE] —change the 40% to 5px (or whatever margin-left spacing you want :) - Micah Wittman

Thanks, Micah! I was looking in totally the wrong place. That worked perfectly. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Ok, great. Glad the script is helpful to you :) - Micah Wittman

Micah, Vista and it's here: C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\User Data\Default\User Scripts with the rest of my scripts. And it's called "friendfeedCommentBottomLink.js". - Kol Tregaskes

Kol, try changing the script file name to exactly: "friendfeedcommentbottomlink.user.js" and restart Chrome (with "--enable-user-scripts" flag of course). I tested on XP, you're on Vista, but let's normalize the other factors at least. - Micah Wittman

thanks; just installed it. [edit: removed it, kinda fugly. :( ] - Anthony Citrano

Anthony, I didn't think it looked too good either...till I changed the left margin from 40% to 1em and added a space before & after the word Comment (within the brackets). Looks great, now: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u... - April Russo (app103)

Nice one, April! More oars in the water will get us there quicker :) - Micah Wittman

much needed mod - MikeAmundsen

Ok, thanks for the feedback everyone here. I just posted v0.24 which now has some key layout/style options in a Configuration section near the top of the script. The default position of the "[ Comment ]" link is left (instead of centred). I had originally gone with centred because I found my mouse pointer was thereabouts when I was wheel scrolling up and down the page, so it was a shortest-distance-to-the-target that drove the decision. But April's style is better looking, so it's the default config now :) - Micah Wittman

how about combining with the expand comments button since it is only needed on very long discussions - Mike Chelen

Mike Chelen, but an important use case is you've already expanded a long thread, have read from top to bottom and are now ready to comment (the expand N more comments link is gone at that point). - Micah Wittman

Issue with the latest update: It's adding like links to a user's own items, which as we all know you aren't allowed to like your own stuff. - April Russo (app103)

Thanks, April - I'll fix that. - Micah Wittman

April, just released [v0.26] http://userscripts.org/scripts... which fixed the Like problem. Thanks again for the feedback :) - Micah Wittman

No problem, and thanks for the great work. - April Russo (app103)

Thanks again, April. - Micah Wittman

[v0.27] Added feature that, while in a comment box, pressing the enter key does not submit and inserts a new line instead (submit by clicking Post button). Off by default; enabled it in Configuration by setting var enableEnterKeyDoesNewlineNotSubmit = true. http://userscripts.org/scripts... - Micah Wittman

Nice update! Thanks! - Andy Bold

Just added to a Fluid SSB for FriendFeed. Works like a charm. Thanks! - nadezhda

Andy, nadezhda, thanks for letting me know :) - Micah Wittman

Awesome. I'm going back to FF 3.0 to read FriendFeed until Greasemonkey is available for 3.5 (what's taking so long?) - Brad Kligerman

How do we "disable enter key submits comment?" - DarknessFalls

@DarknessFalls: Right-click the Greasemonkey icon. Select "Manage User Scripts..." Highlight the friendfeedCommentBottomLink script and click the "Edit" button. (If this is your first time doing this then you will be prompted to locate a text editor. Windows has Notepad.exe, and Mac has Textedit in Applications.) Find the enableEnterKeyDoesNewlineNotSubmit setting near the top of the script and change "false" to "true". Save the change and refresh the Friendfeed page and you're done. - Andy Bold

@Micah: One thing that I have noticed - when you enable enableEnterKeyDoesNewlineNotSubmit the comment entry box does not resize. It stays stuck in single-line mode. I'm using Firefox 3.0.10 on Mac. :) - Andy Bold

Andy, I must have something set wrong somewhere because when I try to edit, a window opens to the Firefox directory. No file to edit. Where does Greasemonkey store the scripts? - CAJ, somewhere else

Alan, it will be different per machine, for instance Firefox stores my scripts something like: C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\agf0etrd.default\gm_scripts\friendfeedcommentbottoml\friendfeedcommentbottoml.user.js But you don't have to go there directly if GreaseMonkey has been associated with a text editor. Right click, manage scripts, then there a button or checkbox of some sort that allows you to choose an editor (notepad.exe, or whatever). - Micah Wittman

[[[ FUNCTIONALITY CAVEAT HERE ]]]: Andy, regarding box resizing - yes, I should state the caveat that (until I can figure out a way to achieve a more nuanced approach in the code) the keypress event bound to the comment box is disabled, which includes multi-line and re-sizing, and character count display (when it goes past the threshold). I'll make this clearer in the post. Thanks! - Micah Wittman

Alan, What Micah said :-) Any Mac peeps reading this can find the scripts in ~/Library/Application Support/Firefox/Profiles/SomeRandomString.default/gm_scripts - Andy Bold

<ahem> After reading the Title Bar of the window, I now realize Greasemonkey was asking me for my default editor. Whoopsie! - CAJ, somewhere else

No prob, Alan. - Micah Wittman

Micah, thanks for clearing that up! I'll file it under "Feature" for now, and install this : http://userscripts.org/scripts... :-) (Been meaning to do this for a while anyway. It's one thing from Safari that I miss in Firefox - the ability to re-size any text box.) (Edit: Blah - script doesn't work. Never mind. :) - Andy Bold

Alan : I just updated my original post. Thanks for reminding me that Greasemonkey does this! :-) - Andy Bold

Andy, no problem. It's a shame Greasemonkey doesn't ask when it's installed. THAT would be the time I'd expect configuration questions. :) - CAJ, somewhere else

was anyone able to get the bottom comment and like to work on Chrome 2.0 on Vista? - Harold

@Kol: not sure why my last comment didn't bump this back up to the current topics... but were you able to get this working on Vista & Chrome 2.0 ? - Harold

tried again... and the script doesn't appear to be working. anyone else having the issue with bottom comments on chrome 2? - Harold from fftogo

Harold, it's not just you. Chrome 2 has some odd hangup with certain general purpose code that should execute fine but doesn't. When I (or someone else - please let me know) figures it out, I'll update you. I'm sure it's frustrating for you, I know it is for me. Stay tuned :) - Micah Wittman

Harold, I think the reason our comments aren't bumping this up to the top of this group is there's an algorithm that considers the age of the post (based on creation date I'm thinking) as part of the decision to bump to top or not upon additional comments. - Micah Wittman

@Micah, I started working on integrating the bottom comment with the Cleaner Friend Feed script. If I get it working, I'll be sure to let you know. - Harold

Harold, cool. Keep me posted. - Micah Wittman

Harold, if I remember correctly last time I was in the code with Chrome 2, execution never even made it out of the GM_wait function. - Micah Wittman

Micah: the comment box would appear the first time you click expand, so it is ready when reaching the bottom of the post - Mike Chelen

Mike, ok, I get you now. I should be able to work that in as a configurable option. Thanks! - Micah Wittman

Micah: hey great, that would be cool, thanks for all these great FF tweaks, been having a lot of fun trying them out! - Mike Chelen

How much overhead is there in running greasemonkey? Any chance FriendFeed will finally fix this themselves after all this time? - Internet Strategist

A FriendFeed intern just acknowledged my request in another thread for them to look into fixing these usability issues. - Internet Strategist

In my experience, the overhead of the greasemonkey extension itself isn't perceptible. The script(s) you have activated on the other hand can be - it all depends on what the script tries to acheive and how well optimized it is (lag can often be a consequence of scripts that make requests to other web services that may not be responsive). - Micah Wittman

Thanks Micah. I may test it. I just realized there is already a "fix" for the screen jumping when you subscribe that works on at least some pages although it can be a little tricky. Right click on the Subscribe link and open it in another tab. - Internet Strategist

Micah just started using FireFox 3.5 and when trying to install this received this error message: Script could not be installed [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80520012 (NS_ERROR_FILE_NOT_FOUND) [nsIChannel.open]" nsresult: "0x80520012 (NS_ERROR_FILE_NOT_FOUND)" location: "JS frame :: chrome://greasemonkey/content/utils.js :: getContents :: line 244" data: no] Is there something I need to change on my side? - Peter du Toit (S.Africa)

Peter, thank you for alerting me. Hmm. Was this Firefox 3.5 on Windows? - Micah Wittman

Yes Windows XP - Peter du Toit (S.Africa) from email

It works fine on FF 3.5 on Vista. - Flavio

Peter, it may be a problem with the gm_scripts directory SEE http://www.nabble.com/unable-... (context is WinXP): "This error is usually caused by a missing greasemonkey configuration file or gm_scripts directory. Please go to your firefox profile directory (on windows something like c:\Documents and Settings\<user>\Application... more... - Micah Wittman

Thanks Micah will check it out and let you know. Was working perfectly with F/Fox 3.0.11 - Peter du Toit (S.Africa) from email

the gm_scripts directories are there but config.xml file missing - Peter du Toit (S.Africa)

Added empty config.xml and it fixed the problem! Thanks Micah! - Peter du Toit (S.Africa)

Great news, Peter! :) - Micah Wittman

UPDATE [v0.3] (announced here: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... ) - Fixed to accommodate FriendFeed's new Disable Comments per post option. Also added script Configuration option hideCommentDisabledPosts - if turned on will hide all posts that are set to Comments Disabled (but will not be hidden if you are the owner of the post). - Micah Wittman

I can't for the life of me figure out how to install this. I'm really really hoping it works for a couple flickr scripts in particular.... help? please? :) - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

Nathalie, sorry I didn't catch your comment here until just now (you made it Tuesday - yikes!) The easiest way to use this is on Firefox; install the Greasemonkey add-on: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US... . Next, install the script by clicking this link: http://userscripts.org/scripts... - please ping me with you need more help understanding it from... more... - Micah Wittman

I know how to install greasemonkey scripts in genereal (in firefox) but apparently, .... *trails off to go up and read again...* oooooooooooooh. see, I thought I'd commented on a post regarding some hack I'd read about for running some greasemonkey scripts in Chrome. that's my 2nd serious blonde moment this week. *sigh* so. uh. it's ok. *runs to find the hack she's now wondering if she dreamt rather than saw* - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

Nathalie, that's completely understandable. Where things can really go off the tracks is when one sends a txt to the Twitter short code instead of the spouse's cell number. The iPhone can really help make a magical moment like that possible. Not that I'd know or anything :D - Micah Wittman from iPhone

omg! I love chrome, but I totally missed greasemonkey. this bottom comment option for friendfeed is teh shit! - possibly enough to make me come back to firefox for a couple sites. - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

Nathalie, sorry I don't have page handy, but I know I've read that there are workarounds to get greasemonkey scripts to (largely) work in the Dev version of Chrome :) - Adam Lasnik

Brett Kelly to Brett's feed, FriendFeed Feedback

What do you think are the major barriers to wider FriendFeed adoption among Twitter users?

June 14 - Comment - Like - Share

Zackatoustra, Stanislas Jourdan, Jorge Barba and 15 other people liked this

The misconception that it's a duplication of services. That and not every Twitter knows that it exists yet. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

27 more comments

By the way, both problems are fixed with simple education of users. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

FF is too - much - work compared to twitter. - vijay

Getting their heads out of their asses. If they can understand twitter and google reader, they can understand FF -- no more of this "I don't get it" bullshit. - Andy Bakun

I think it also appears a great deal more complicated than Twitter (an observation which, frankly, has merit in my opinion). - Brett Kelly

@Dread - how do we educate better? - Brett Kelly

FF is more complicated than twitter, but that's because a) twitter has zero features, and b) FF actually does a lot of of the work for you, like bringing in content from other sites automatically, threads conversations, has robust search, and has had less downtime. - Andy Bakun

So it is a question of evangelism? or education? (loving this, keep it coming) - Brett Kelly

http://friendfeed.com/dffrnt... - vijay

I think that the dearth of mobile applications/capabilities is a part of it, as well. (relative to Twitter, I mean) - Brett Kelly

Just my view, but I think the FF interface is an issue to new adoption. Facebook and Twitter simplify the user experience, I don't think that FF appeals due to the way it looks to the casual user. If FF had a cool user experience, it could drive up the numbers and show the value it has. - Keith Bennett from BuddyFeed

It's a question of necessity: not all Twitter users need what FriendFeed has to offer --depth, engagement. - Brad Kligerman

vijay: that's bullshit. Facebook has 250 million users and it is a LOT harder to use than friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

How long have Facebook and Twitter been around? I think FB has been around for a while and Twitter longer than FF though not sure by a great deal? - Kol Tregaskes

Only one: twitter :) - Nikos Anagnostou

I find that I have to put just as much effort into Lists on FriendFeed as I do Making groups in a Twitter client. So, the more work argument just doens't hold up IMO. Most people aren't getting nearly the value out of Twitter that they could be. Friendfeed seems to me easier to understand because the things list Lists re built into the default (web) interface that people use, and they... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

If FF had a better way of importing the people I follow on Twitter (instead of just the people I follow who have FF) I think it could gain significant market share vis a vis Twitter. - Garin Kilpatrick

The point of FriendFeed is to import your stuff from other sites, Twitter is popular with the mainstream, but how many mainstream people do you know that use 2 or more of the sites FriendFeed can import content from. They just don't see the advantage of using FriendFeed over Twitter if all they're doing is posting status updates, you might not think FriendFeed is too complicated or has too many features, but for the average person it does. - DarknessFalls

if the point is to import stuff from other sites then sending that info onto twitter just made that reson defunct as why use it FF at all when it just use as a twitterfeed ??? we need more features that set it apart from FB or twitter plus better intrigration of those services we need easyer adoption from those services to FF - Rollz Chamberlain

I'm a TweetDeck aficianado, and I'm not a huge fan of web-based apps like FF. If they get a good desktop app, I'd be more inclined to spend time here. - Lisa Logan

Lisa: You can download the AIR version of PeopleBrowsr - we have support for FriendFeed in that. Basically all that's missing from PeopleBrowsr's Friendfeed implementation is duplication of the FF web realtime. (i.e. newly commented posts don't come into the column again - refresh is necessary) - We do, however, fully support FriendFeed Lists, Rooms, posting likes and commenting. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Rollz - it's used as much more than a twitterfeed, and beyond that, provides a space in which one can easily discuss the ideas that come in via twitter and all the other sources, whereas that discussion would be very cumbersome on twitter itself - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Personally I believe Twitter is more popular, because there is a fashion for it and everyone heard about twitter, but much less people heard about FF. FF has much more great features while serving same purpose, but in this scenario with social apps, the app that more of your friends use, wins, so generally now the situation FF is in, is pretty without any hope as more people will use it, if more people starts using it, what makes no sense. - Black Dot

the attraction of Twitter is that there is no thread - no continuation of a thought. - MikeAmundsen

Exactly and every try to respond to people's messages result in rapid generation of illegible spam. - Black Dot

Lets face it. A lot of folks on Twitter now would willingly pay money to go see a movie like The Pacifier. Friendfeed is too sophisticated for them. Too many bells n whistles. - beersage

beersage: I don't think it's any much more complicated than any twitter client app that supports groups. I don't think that's why. I think the barrier to adoption is people saying what you said, and scaring off many that would use FriendFeed. I also think that the overall marketing of FriendFeed could be stepped up BUT, I think they've been wise to keep the systems ahead of the... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

I think friendfeed would really benefit from a way to use it as your main twitter webapp. This would pull in many powertwitter etc users. These will then discover the other features of friendfeed. - TobiasVerhoog.com

The problem I have with FriendFeed as my main Twitter (or FriendFeed) app is that I can't watch a large amount of data simultaneously. I like to have the multi column layout so that I can watch several lists at once. (but even watching through an app, I use friendfeed lists a lot as a way to watch a lot of twitter action) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Robert Scoble

Interesting, Mike Arrington deleted the TechCrunch account on friendfeed. My additional thoughts are on mobs and this here:

June 7 - Comment - Like - Share

Liviu Barbat, Gordon Saunders, Simone Lovati and 181 other people liked this

be right back with more. - Robert Scoble

773 more comments

That makes me sad because it was my favorite tech blog to click "like" on. I talked with Mike this morning at an event and he said last night was one of the worst he's ever lived through with the amount of hatred aimed at him. He deleted 600 Techcrunch comments, too, he told me. - Robert Scoble

Wow, interesting. - Kevin Whalen

Some of the comments I've seen on both sides of the aisle are pretty damn repugnant. I've had that kind of stuff aimed at me in the past and it's never fun. - Robert Scoble

he pissed off Leo's hardcore fans - David Lloyd

wow, deleted the tc account. Scoble: what do you think are going to be the long term implications of this? - ming yeow

It just goes to show that people love to pay attention to negative things, but rarely to positives, or when people make efforts to make up for past misgivings. Sad, but human nature. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Funny, I remember helping push a mob against some people I really didn't like and a friend really ripped into me for doing that. My friend was right, of course. Interesting that not many people are speaking up against the kinds of comments (aimed personally, not at the substance of what happened). I want to be counted as one of those who stood up personally against the kind of comments I've seen. - Robert Scoble

600 hateful comments? Puts a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. Have had the occasional hate comments but never to that extent - David Weedmark

I didn't dig into those treads too much but imagine they got pretty nasty, probably more so on digg. too bad though, i used FF to find lots of TC content - sean percival

Mark: and Leo should call them back and tell them shame. The kinds of things I've seen against Mike (and some against Leo too) are just awful. People saying that Mike should get cancer and die and worse. - Robert Scoble

That seems weird.. Why would anyone delete an account on FF. Were they a lot of hateful comments posted to his account? - Bindu Reddy

thats fucked up Robert. - David Lloyd

David: Given the number of people who hate Arrington's guts, 600 doesn't seem too bad. Just one person harassing you over a period of years over the net (as I've had) is much worse than 600 random people digging at you once and then going away. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Very strange... Was it hacked? - Hugo Romano

But don't you think due to a LOT of pent up frustration against Mike? His attitude has always been a point of contentment amongst lots of people i know. - ming yeow

Bindu: Mike is actually a pretty sensitive guy beneath a lot of bluster. I'm to blame for pushing the friendfeeders to poke at Mike. - Robert Scoble

ming: there's some of that that's Mike's fault too. But when mobs happen they always go overboard. - Robert Scoble

SCOBLE: I was the one who posted the video on youtube (MPB326) that everyone has been linking to and I have gotten the 700+ comments to my email account. I can't believe some of the stupid things people are saying on YouTube. Terrible stuff! I was actually thinking about deleting the video. - Mike Bracco

Sorry but he shouldn't have deleted his FF account. He should have stayed the storm. I think what he said to Leo was out of line, but to receive the vitriol he has is unnecessary. I think he deserves criticism, but not cancer threats. - kenneth glenn

Yeah that's really screwed up. If those people want to get pissed off at something, come to a third world country and take a gander at all the "real" abuses people do. Talk about making you sick ... - Nick in Manila

scobe: roger that. I like leo a lot, but that seemed to be an overreaction by him. then the mobs wayyyy over reacted - ming yeow

ming: and go far further than the problem that incited them in the first place. And Mike rarely gets personal, as far as I have seen, even when his barbs are aimed at something I've done. - Robert Scoble

Mike acts like a dick. Then again, so do I. I used to have a hate-on for him myself until I realized that really, he's a lot like me... Ballsy and annoying on the outside, but a real human with real feelings on the inside. I'm not afraid to call him a jerk to his face, but that's his behaviour I'm commenting on, not him personally. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I don't get why people feel so compelled to fling poo at Michael. He says contentious things, has strong opinions, and sometimes screws up...that makes him human and reasonably interesting. I think that is a good thing. - Neal Jansons

Chris: we're all dicks once in a while. I think that's part of being human. Far as I know there's only one perfect human who has walked on the earth and I bet even he wasn't perfect if we actually could get to know him. - Robert Scoble

Neal: Everyone loves taking everyone else down a notch or two. Primate dominance games. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mike it would be better to post the follow up video on youtube. It was an interesting conversation and would help put everything into context. - Benjamin Taylor

Neal: Chris nailed it. We love building people up and then dragging them down. I told Mike that whenever I've gotten a shit storm to form it's been when I've been at my most interesting. - Robert Scoble

Benjamin - yeah I wish I also captured the conversation a little while after between Arrington and Leo where they talked it out. - Mike Bracco

This is sad - Johni Fisher

Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does. - Robert Scoble

Leo has this massive army of supporters, and many more who probably found the clip and came to support him. These weren't neutral third parties giving their honest opinion on the incident, they were Leo supporters through and through. I can't blame him for deleting the account, because I was reading the comments, and they were tough. - Colin

I'm really surprised that Mike still, after all the crap he gets, feels hurt from these comments by people. But last night he and Leo were both discussing how these comments about "mike should die" are not from reasonable, of right mind people. I'm sad that he takes those comments to heart. And I'm sad that trolls thrive in this place (the internet) I love. - Lise

Has Leo said anything to his supporters about their attacks on Mike since yesterday, by the way? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

As much as we all may like and respect Arrington, it just seems as if he was trying to create news at Leo's expense. - Stuart Tracte

Chris, Robert: I know, but Mike is center of poo-flinging more often than most, and he got freaking SPIT on and had his family threatened last year. It just amazes me, and honestly, each snafu just makes me more sympathetic with him personally (I still sometimes disagree with him, professionally, of course, but that is just the biz). - Neal Jansons from IM

Colin: yeah, and Leo should have spoken to his audience and told them to stay professional. But that will come back to Leo someday. These things always do, which is why my friend was correct when he told me never to push a mob. - Robert Scoble

I missed TWiT so I don't know if Leo brought it up or not during the show, but I hope he took an opportunity to tell others that its not their place to fight Mike on Leo's behalf. Especially after they made up. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

But Robert, working your ass off isn't an excuse for behaving badly to people or acting the way arirngton has in the past. Hard work doesn't mean you get to be a jerk - David Lloyd

Neal: yeah, some people become larger than life and it makes people feel that it's OK to do pretty outrageous things against them. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He didn't. I'm not sure he's even aware of the comments Mike got. - Vlad Bobleanta

Leo said at the end of his TWIT feed that he "had trouble sleeping last night." Perhaps because of this brou-ha-ha? - Steve Burgess

Vlad: Thanks. That's a shame, I think it'd be really good for both sides if Leo did come out and say this to everyone. Even if he just recorded a short video clip and tossed it up, standalone. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Whatever either of them say at this point, it has gone beyond them and their ability to "do" anything - Susan Reynolds

Robert, Leo could have said "please stay professional" a thousand times but come on, this is the internet. Do trolls, who are always ready for a fight, listen to that? - Lise

Susan: Perhaps, but it would still help allow cooler minds and attitudes to prevail and in a shorter time than if they remain silent. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: I think Arrington would agree with you. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He brought the incident up, but didn't calm anyone down. Again, I'm not sure he's aware of what's been going on. - Vlad Bobleanta

Also, the Gillmor Gang section is gone: http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ - Greg Byrne

i still post all my posts here. i can post the other TC ones if you guys want too. - MG Siegler

Chris, that's true, but there are still a vast army of followers who think they are in the right and just go off half cocked - and stay that way - Susan Reynolds

Lise: true too. - Vlad Bobleanta

Lise: probably not, but my friend's words ring true: to hold back mobs as much as possible. - Robert Scoble

This is 1. not a surprise & 2. mobs are not at the behest of the personalities they follow. They are mobs. Mobs glom onto some perceived raison d'etre and go. If Arrington, after all of his time pushing buttons and twisting tits, is surprised by this, well, he's a whole hell of a lot dumber than he ever gets credit for being. - Dave Martin

Leo and Steve had a big fight last night: bottom line is GG is off the twit network - David Lloyd

MG: that would be cool. Techcrunch was my #1 most "liked" feed here on friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

People saying stupid things in comments? This is nothing new. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with it anymore. - Dean Clark

perhaps someone could set up an acocunt that will link to TC articles as they are posted in real time - David Lloyd

Susan: "Madness is rare in individuals--but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I hope he recreates it. - Johnny Worthington

Dave: I don't think he's surprised by it, just shocked at how bad it's gotten. - Robert Scoble

Perhaps someone could write a piece detailing the mob situation, defending Arrington, and encouraging him to come back, maybe this is it. - Colin

Dave Martin: I get why he's surprised. There's always a disconnect between someone like him and the so called community, and also there's always a mob waiting to be formed. - Vlad Bobleanta

Not all of those comments were hateful. he pissed me off more when he deleted mine. I pointed out what he said and then opined that I didn't think it was enough and he deleted this: http://ff.im/3FDfA - Jimminy

Big names, little names, it's still hard to see hateful things aimed your way. Intellectually most of us understand, but emotions sometimes get in the way even to the big fish - Susan Reynolds

wtf happened? i missed it and am sorry whatever came to this has come to this. - jeneane sessum

Chris: good quote! My history teacher in College simplified that to "the masses are asses." - Robert Scoble

Maybe he is just shocked that not only Leo's community attacked him but also his "loyal" techcrunch community gave him a bashing - David Lloyd

Robert, I see your point, but I don't need to be told to refrain from attacking someone. I saw what happened. I wish Leo hadn't gotten *so* angry but I respect that he feels passionately. He was defending his integrity. So that I respect. I respect Mike for handling it all so well and not throwing F bombs back. And I love Leo. But I wasn't going to curse Mike or wish death upon him. So those that did, there's no changing them. - Lise

Jeneane: Mike and Leo got into it on Gillmor Gang yesterday. There's a whole thread about that. - Robert Scoble

Not sure how taking TC off FF relates to the problems Arrington was having in comments on his blog. ? - Nick in Manila

TechCrunch Question: I noticed that my comments on FF for TechCrunch articles also appeared as part of TC's comments on their site. Is that part of FF API? - Mike Bracco

Nick: the most hostile comments were in FF comments - David Lloyd

Jeneane: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co... - Vlad Bobleanta

Mark: Aha. - Nick in Manila

oh jeez. thx robert. i'm sorry to hear that. sounds like the chorus got active. - thanks for the link Vlad. had no idea. - jeneane sessum

Mike: You can import FF comments onto Wordpress posts via a plugin - Nicholas James

Lise: good point, but I've learned that if leaders call on their followers to behave appropriately then they usually do. I don't want anyone who calls for someone else to get cancer to read me, by the way. I am here to have great conversations about tech. Keep it on the tech and we'll have a great time. - Robert Scoble

Lise, Robert, the hateful comments say more about the idiots who write them than about the two personalities about which the angry words swirl - Susan Reynolds

Nick: death threats etc - David Lloyd

Lise: There are those who were ready to tear Arrington to shreds, at least until the mutual apologies of him and Leo came out on TechCrunch. At least, I can't believe I'm the only one who felt like that. Some angry people can be assauged. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: Not sure I agree. The Youtube comments are terrible. - Mike Bracco

it's difficult to be surprised by the size of this reaction.like it or not, you guys are celebrities. - Stuart Tracte

Mike: no, Techcrunch had a Wordpress Plugin that was doing that. That Plugin has been removed, too. - Robert Scoble

Colin: I think the general flip-out crazy needs to be addressed, but it needs to be by an A-lister so everyone sees it. The whole way these things are happening makes the whole industry look insane and unprofessional. - Neal Jansons from IM

Stuart: The size, yes. The venom of it, though? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

shouldnt be too hard to make an unofficial ff account for techcrunch posts - David Lloyd

someone wanna go do it? - David Lloyd

Stuart: that's the thing. We're also people and Mike is sensitive like the rest of us (even if he has built a persona that shows him as above it all). - Robert Scoble

Mark: Surprised if someone hasn't already beaten us all to it. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: I'd rather not do that. I'd rather someone at Techcrunch does that. - Robert Scoble

There are a few existing TC accounts from their feed. - Benjamin Taylor

Scoble's made the point that FF has structural features to control that kind of stuff. Guess it was overwhelmed. - Nick in Manila

Chris C, so you were one of the ones wishing death upon Mike until he apologized? - Lise

well im sure if Arrington took it down, it is probably TC policy not to have FF account, his other writers wont make one - David Lloyd

Fanboys are going to follow whatever lead they're directed. If Leo had said that Mike had terrible BO, there'd be thousands of Leo disciples telling Arrington to get himself some deodorant. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. - Jay Caruso

hows this http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Leo is well-spoken, he makes things sound good, he's a well-known likeable guy, and he was the one on video, that's a lot of things going for him if you ignore everything else that's going on, and people do. Just mob mentality and drive-by commenting. - Colin

Behind every great character there is a real person. I just hope that the more rational people currently participating in the mob realize this and understand what they're doing before they do anything worse. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Nick: well, yes. I wish we could have a team feed from Techcrunch. - Robert Scoble

I still like Mike and don't think he should have deleted the TC account. I enjoy the TC posts but find that Mike and Erick tend to get to a point that makes me want to stop reading their stuff, and I won't for a few days. - Jimminy

Just create a public standard feed/group (owner controls posts, anyone can comnent), and import TC from twitter/RSS/whatever. - Ken Kennedy

Lise: Not wishing death, but I certainly would have given him shit and got up in his face if I had the chance. I don't fight (often) but I do relish giving hell to people. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Done: http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Jay, that's not true. I am a huge Leo fangirl but I also think for myself. - Lise

The people who were commenting took it too far - Mike Appologised. Leo Appologised. That should have been it although Leo's fans just tried to continue to call mike for no reason. - Nicholas James

Jack, subscribed. - Robert Scoble

Lise, it wasn't a blanket statement. I've been a fan of Leo's since the old Tech TV days. Just saying that some will take it too far and it all it takes is the person to open that door a crack. - Jay Caruso

Thanks, Jacky boy x - David Lloyd

Thanks Jack! - Nicholas James

Thanks, Jack! - Neal Jansons from IM

Robert, is there anything else that needs doing? I think I got it right - Jack

Wait... is Jack affiliated with Techcrunch? Why not have MG do this? He offered. - Ken Sheppardson

Nicholas: At this point I'd probably be calling Arrington to tell him to not take it too personally, that mobs are really just sheep with pointy teeth. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

FF is a focus group in many ways. Sad commentary IMHO. - Eric Logan

Jack, Robert: MG can handle this. He writes for Techcrunch. How 'bout we not squat on their brand? - Ken Sheppardson

Chris C, exactly. You just said, you relish giving people hell. You're always ready for a fight. I, on the other hand, am not. And I looked at this situation and considered both sides, despite being a huge Leo fan and not knowing many details on Mike (other than he pisses people off) - Lise

Is there really much more discussion about this? What is done is done. It's already in the past & let's move on. No one knows how this will affect Leo in the future if at all. - Jason Hansen

Want to know what else happened? A single moderator in Leo's IRC chat room muted the entire channel, causing the mob to spill into FriendFeed. - Colin

When I first was diagnosed w/ cancer and the twitter community started the frozen pea fund to donate to cancer research, Mike and Robert were among the first to write about it. As I see it, they both keep a human touch to the community no matter how popular the following. I appreciate that and so maybe its easier for me to see past some of the things that upset the crowds. - Susan Reynolds

I'm not affiliated in any way with TC - Jack

are you okay now Susan ? xxx - David Lloyd

Lise: anyone who does interesting things in media is going to piss someone off. Even me, I try to take reasonable positions and do my homework, but I have lots of haters out there too. It's unavoidable. - Robert Scoble

Jason, I think there is. Considering Mike deleted his account and the GG site no longer exists on techcrunch. I feel bad for Mike and Steve. - Lise

OK, if he asks - Jack

Eric - true - ff as focus group - Susan Reynolds

Why do you feel bad for Mike & Steve? - Jason Hansen

Lise: Steve deleted the GG page, if I heard that correct. It will be interesting to see how the Gillmor Gang goes forward from here. - Robert Scoble

Robert, no I get that. But that's my point. I know Mike is capable of that. And I'm way more of a Leo fangirl. Yet I wasn't with my fist in the air yelling "fight!" - Lise

Mark - thanks for asking. Not OK but very supported by the best of the net - Susan Reynolds

Basically the only 2 people who should have been involved was Mike and Leo. They both appologised - the mob tried to get involved and call Mike for no reason - I mean after both of them appologising to each other that should have been it - people took it too far with some of the comments I saw yesterday. - Nicholas James

Because Steve realized his show isn't really his show. And Mike got hell when he didn't even give Leo that much shit to begin with. - Lise

ROBERT: oops caps, I do know Leo and Steve had a fight last night and its not gonna be on TWiT anymore x - David Lloyd

You know, my main issue with what happened yesterday, is that it was an ego clash. And just that. Funny that in the make-up part Leo kept insisting that he'd like more content on GG and less drama, an hour or two after he himself caused a helluva lot of drama. I do love Leo and watch all of his shows, but yesterday he was overreacting. And I think he figured that out in the mean time.... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

If the mob is acting "in Leo's name", then I think Leo should try and tell them that they're certainly not acting with his permission or blessings. That they should disband and stop attacking Mike. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Steve still seems like he's trying to throw his weight around and try to be in complete control of the show. He needs to remember its not just about him - its about the audience - something he said he didn't care about yesterday - Nicholas James

My impression is the guy went over tipping point for the kind of character he was putting out there, at some point people are going to say enough is enough. - Ian Wright

Nicholas: the show used to be private, Im not sure Steve cares that much about the audience - David Lloyd

Live by the sword... - Ian Wright

Vlad, it was the final straw for Leo. He had said before that Mike was becoming too trollish during the GG show. And when he felt like Mike was about to attack his integrity, well, he blew up. Unfortunately. - Lise

gillmor gang is going to be nothing more than a conference call :-( - Tobias Lewsadder

Nicholas: Steve cares about the audience more than he lets on. He knows that by making things interesting he's doing right by the audience. That doesn't mean, though, that you kowtow to the audience. - Robert Scoble

Tobias: heheh, in the real time world? THAT I would have to see! - Robert Scoble

Isn't that your opinion Robert? - Jason Hansen

I watched the whole thing unfold last night including the after show and it was clear that Mike Arrington spoke before he thought and didn't mean it to come out like people including Leo took it. I am glad that they both cooled down and realized it was a simple mis communication. Its too bad the crowd can't do the same. Mike Arrington may be a pain in the butt but pain in the butts are interesting. - Kim Landwehr

Jason, sorry, lost context. This is all my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else other than me. - Robert Scoble

Kim: bing! - Robert Scoble

"Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does." Doesn't make his insinuations right. I work hard and couldn't do what he does probably - but that doesn't mean he can act like a jerk - repeatedly according to some. - Mark Outten

I'm pretty sure the Techcrunch <-> Friendfeed comment sync was disabled a few days ago. Not sure it had anything to do with the dust-up yesterday. - Ken Sheppardson

Lise: I know why it happened. I understand that was building inside Leo over time. I get that. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert, that really bugged me that Steve said he didn't care about the community. But I agree, he cares greatly about the show and the community. He wouldn't have been so hurt if he didn't. - Lise

i was blown away by the second episode of gg. it almost seemed like arrington was torn by who he had turned into, at least the negativity that resides within hm. - Tobias Lewsadder

It's probably just the mob he's upset with Lise. - Colin

I also agree with Kim. I enjoyed watching GG at 6:00 PM during the last hour of shift at work. I would still watch it as well as TWiT. - Jason Hansen

He was hurt by some of the comments, he also blamed Dave Winer for alot of problems - David Lloyd

Mark: who said he's a jerk? Sometimes we're all jerks. And, anyway, when he's being a jerk he usually is keeping it on the story. Not personal. He's taken lots of shots at me but has NEVER said that I should get cancer and die. That's unacceptable. - Robert Scoble

Vlad, okay and I agree with you that Mike should blow those comments off. I'm shocked he hasn't grown a thicken skin - Lise

I think that if anyone bothered to read the Techcrunch appology and watch/listen to the 2nd Gillmor Gang yesterday they'd know the full story. The mob listened to the 1st Gillmor Gang only and drew their conclusions - some of that mob didn't even listen to Gillmor Gang - they just jumped on the bandwagon like sheep especially as they saw like a 1 minute clip on Youtube summarising it. - Nicholas James

I don't know Arrington personally, all I can judge him from is his body of work with TechCrunch and it's top notch. Anyone who criticizes him in a vicious way needs to look in the mirror. A lot of those with the harsh words are probably typing it from their parents basement. I just hate when people rip other people with a pretext of being something else when it's really jealousy. - Mike Bracco

Lise: it's always easy to say people should have a thick skin until you're the one at the center of a mob getting kicked in the groin. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Mike: bing! - Robert Scoble

Steve Gillmor clearly stated that he doesn't care about the audience. And that's that for me, Robert. Lise: I can see Steve cares about the show, and especially his brand inside the show. About the audience, he said it better than I ever could. Please believe the man. - Vlad Bobleanta

I think the Steve-Leo conflict (which was briefly obvious on the show) got totally overshadowed and subsumed by the Leo-Mike issue. - Nick in Manila

Robert's comment exactly. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert, true. I know I couldn't handle it. - Lise

Robert: You like Microsoft's new search engine. ;) - Jason Hansen

Vlad: you aren't listening carefully. I heard what Steve said yesterday and totally understood what he was saying. You can't let the audience drive your product. Ask a Porsche owner what they want and they'll say "more trunk space, smoother ride, more leg room, etc." They just designed a Volvo. - Robert Scoble

Robert: 100% agreed. I do not want to be in Mike's position, ever. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: all of us in media care DEEPLY about the audience. If you hung around any of these people you'd know that we read every comment and take them very seriously. But the day you start listening to the audience and kowtowing to them is the day when you lose your way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How does the mob get its "justice" then? I have not seen the venomous postings you speak of, nor do I agree in any way that that is the way to go. So, how does this get resolved? I, like many, believe Leo was being "entrapped". How does Arrington get out of this with his reputation intact? He's done alot for all of us and definitely does not deserve the level of hatred you speak of, but something need to be done... - Stuart Tracte

Stuart: most of the nastiest stuff has been deleted. - Robert Scoble

Make a good product and the audience will find you. - Kim Landwehr

Side note: Do not try to converse on FF on an iphone.... had a whole paragraph written out.... and lost it... - Stuart Tracte

I think Arrington and Leo will come out of this fine, I'm already paying more attention to both of them. - Colin

Stuart: you should go and listen to the second show we did last night. Leo wasn't entraped. And he didn't have to react that way. When people question my ethics I answer them calmly. I get questioned on that all the time. - Robert Scoble

Every week someone asks me if I'm paid by friendfeed, for instance. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I am listening, and I get your point. I never got Steve's attitude, though. And I was just spinning what he said, I did get the underlying meaning. - Vlad Bobleanta

(I'm not). - Robert Scoble

Tonights FF homework: listen to the full GG show to become better informed http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

i was in the middle of typing a comment on tech crunch last night when mike shut down the comments, how sad. he mentioned having to have a police car parked in front of his house in the past for similar issues... that is wrong!!! - Tobias Lewsadder

SCOBLE: totally agree! true innovation can't come from what the "flock" is saying they want. True innovators are so because they create something that no-one knew they needed until it is created. - Mike Bracco

Honestly, I suspect that every person who got really pissed at @arrington over the years but had decided to ignore him went back and told him what they'd thought of him all along. He's ruined companies and products on the grandstand. I read his stuff like I watch fox news, for the truth far from the middle but for clues of what might be left out on the sunny side. - Shava Nerad

Vlad: Gillmor is an interesting person. I don't always get him either. - Robert Scoble

Robert, still. I am that community that Steve supposedly doesn't care about. And that's where I almost did pump my fist in the air. When Steve said he didn't care and Leo instantly said he *did* care. But... again, I feel bad for Steve, still. His issue was just loss of control over his baby (the show) - Lise

Colin: Professionally, sure! This isn't any kind of permanent damage to either of them. Personally, though, I know that it's got to hurt them both. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris, I think they're both tougher now. - Colin

Shava: He's made many hundreds of companies too. I don't know of a single one that was ruined by TechCrunch. Please back that statement up. - Robert Scoble

Colin: You'd be surprised. Often the people who seem to have the thickest skin on the outside are the most sensitive on the inside. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Does Leo know any of this, btw? I think he thinks this is all over with...considering he was joking about it all. I think he's embarrassed and trying to make light of it. But I don't think it's over, unfortunately. - Lise

Seriously everyone who did not listen to the 2nd show shouldn't even comment on it. Infact the problem should be over and done with it was a minor row which ended pretty quickly with both appologising to each other. That should be the end of it. Instead of people jumping on the bandwagon trying to call someone because he has a huge readership base and earns a nice amount of revenue from his blog - Nicholas James

still watching. - jeneane sessum

If they were ruined by TechCrunch then I'd have to call that company pretty lame. Remember PodTech? Mike pointed out a lack of leadership at the company. In hindsight Mike was right. - Robert Scoble

Chris, but that outer skin just got thicker lol, I dunno, I just think it has to be a big lesson to both of them, they'll remember it. - Colin

Lise: I don't know what Leo is seeing right now. I should call him and check in. - Robert Scoble

I don't know about Mike, but Leo was already making fun of the incident on TWIT, realized their was a slight overreaction on his part - Kim Landwehr

Colin: Yes, they'll remember it. But that outer skin is just their media personalities. You're ignoring the real people behind those names, and how they feel about it. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I don't even believe that Mike was about to question Leo's ethics. He was just upset that they didn't get a Pre. And wanted to make a point about how Palm selects reviewers. I never questioned Leo's integrity. Neither Mike's. I think they'd be really stupid to endanger their careers like that. Which settles it for me. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: Will you pass him the link to this discussion? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I think yesterday was enough fanfare - I'm filing this in the "none of my business" stack - Bwana ☠ from IM

Wow...did not expect to learn this when I logged onto FriendFeed. - Ben Parr

Vlad: you weren't hearing Mike. Please go listen to the second show. He made it very clear why he was asking those questions. Mike asks me all the time about my ethics. It's his way of digging for stories. - Robert Scoble

Robert, you should. I hope they can work this out. It's definitely not smoothed over. Maybe between Mike and Leo but not all 3. - Lise

Bwana: But we need to know what every single person on FriendFeed thinks about the relationship between Leo, Mike, and Steve... did you miss the memo? - Ken Sheppardson

I'll say this again, but Leo's IRC chat was muted, and chatters spilled right onto FriendFeed. If you were reading the IRC chat at the time, it was 100% pro-Leo. Those people normally don't come on FriendFeed, but when they were muted, this was the first place they came to, because this is the 2nd largest chat Leo endorses. - Colin

Robert: That's his way of digging for stories... fine. However, is that something you would do to a respected friend? - Jason Hansen

Lise: that's true. Steve feels his show was stepped on needlessly. - Robert Scoble

Mmmyeah, Steve's issue was loss of control over the show. I get that. I've seen how awkward it was at times. But still. How old are these people again? - Vlad Bobleanta

Jason: All's fair in love and war... And in media. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Jason: in this business? Yes. I ask MYSELF all the time am I on the right side of the ethical line. And when someone is getting a goodie and I'm not, it sure does make me wonder WHY. - Robert Scoble

steve should host the show and he boot whomever he wants and not invite back guests he doesnt feel fit into gg. - Tobias Lewsadder

Tobias: I agree. Steve should be in charge of the off switch on his own show. - Robert Scoble

To run a show, you have to do what Leo does, you have to be able to control cameras and mics, and Steve really needs to get that kind of control, or Leo's operator needs to stay neutral, and out of it. - Colin

Tobias: Steve should take things offline for making the show, and then broadcast it afterwards, rather than doing it live. That might help reduce the bad attitudes it seems to bring out from its hosts and guests. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I do think Steve had a point, It is his show and Leo really didn't have the right to shut the show down, no matter how mad he was - Kim Landwehr

Robert: I would like to see the inner of the business for a week or two. It would be an interesting learning experience I'm sure. - Jason Hansen

Tobias: I think it was unprofessional for Leo to pull the off switch on someone else's show while on air. It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me if I were to host a show on his network. - Robert Scoble

out of interest. was leo, steve or arrington making money from GG? will this have business implications - Anthony Feint

Robert: It would depend if you pissed him off ;) - Nicholas James

Anthony: not yet, but whenever audiences get built around media properties there's always money involved eventually. - Robert Scoble

No Anthony, this was a Saturday, and people's free time. - Colin

Chris: Steve lives and breathes "live". - Nick in Manila

Nicholas: if I pissed someone off they should bite their lip and fire me after the show. That's professionalism. It also gives people a chance to explain themselves. When you're on air it's very difficult to discuss business in a professional way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How much time has Leo spent on the air over the past 10 years or so? How many incidents like this have their been? Seems like you might literally be blowing it out of proportion, re "It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me" - Ken Sheppardson

Robert: I saw the show yesterday. Yeah, I know, my point was more that he was using the ethical question to start off his 'story' about Palm sending review units. Which is exactly what he said in part 2 of the show, when you were on too. And it's exactly what you kinda said. So let's agree to agree, even if my phrasing isn't phenomenal right now :) - Vlad Bobleanta

I like Mike, I really do, and I respect him, but he has to take some responsibility. Its not what he says, its how he says it, that rubs people the wrong way - Stephen Pickering

Robert: I gotta agree with Ken's last statement. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Ken: that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities. - Robert Scoble

The interesting thing for me was that about a month ago, on another TWiT show, Leo expressed some negative sentiment about Arrington and the way he sort of "stir things up" to try to get responses out of people. It was on net@nite I believe. Anyway, that is the first thing I thought of when this happened yesterday. - Mike Bracco

so I guess we are that petty? such a waste of our attention. Lets get back to reading / listening / sharing. Hopefully Mike will consider friendfeed again down the road and shake off all the negative publicity/bad feelings about inciting Leo. - Mark Essel

but was leo giving free bandwidth to GG? - Anthony Feint

Chris: I was one of Leo's "Laporteans" and have been a friend of Leo's before I even had a blog. I love the guy. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: yes, but again, if you are going to fire someone in media, or shut down someone else's show, you should do that off air. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: but maybe that's just me. - Robert Scoble

I thought the comments towards Mike yesterday were overwhelmingly positive after they both apologized. I gained a new respect for Mike yesterday. - Jesse Stay

Robert "that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities" That's why i made it a point to say Leo would be better off Not "Hosting" the GG but being a Out of Studio Guest - Erle Stride

Mike B, exactly, he was ready to be attacked by Mike. He said it himself. So he went overboard. - Lise

As an outsider viewing the beginning of the show, my impression was that Leo lashed out as if their is some pent up frustration/anger towards Arrington. - Kevin Whalen

Scoble: Can't substantiate at the moment, so skip it as unsubstantiated, but I remember 2-3 times seeing what he said about something, and what others said, and thinking, he was just talking things down to be contrarian. It's like ValleyWag -- are you familiar with them? Thing is I rarely have read his stuff lately. I prefer constructive criticism over snark negativity, and that's the... more... - Shava Nerad

Anthony: I think Leo agrees there, too. He said he was wrong to shut down the show. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo shouldn't have stopped the whole show, after all it is Steve's show. However I can understand why he did. It seems to me he was never quite happy with GG on Twit from the beginning. Which is what he kinda admitted in part2. If the show were to stay on Twit, I think they should just get someone in the cottage to switch between cameras and stuff, and Leo should be a guest. In Steve's show. - Vlad Bobleanta

Shava: I've been on Valleywag more than 70 times. - Robert Scoble

I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. - Jack

Vlad: I agree, and I think so does Leo and Steve. - Robert Scoble

Kevin: Leo's talked about what he dislikes in Mike's persona before, but this is the first time things really came to a head. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert: yeah I agree to...im just wondering where the shows going to go. ITs going to lose a big audience. I only watched because it was on twit and techcrunch - Anthony Feint

squarespace sounds interesting (still listening) - does put #squarespace in your tweet still enter you in the contest? - jeneane sessum

Probably not a good idea to be a guest and be in control of a show at the same time. - Kim Landwehr

Really, he apologized, so shouldn't this be over if it's over between the two antagonists? But then this is the Internet. And yes, I figured you know Valleywag, but this is a general audience as well. A lot of folks don't overlap - Shava Nerad

Leo DOES have the right to pull the show it's HIS network That's why Steve got so Pissy Lastnight - Erle Stride

Robert, don't you think this is a bit of a soap opera? - Jon Lebkowsky

Kevin: That exactly the way it appeared to this outsider. - Nick in Manila

Vlad, I think we all agree that Leo shouldn't have shut the show down. But I think removing Leo from his own network in his own studio is silly. Do you really think he's going to do this again? - Lise

Jon: of course! - Robert Scoble

Mike sounded so reasonable last night. He told Leo and Steve not to make any rash decisions about the show, I'm surprised he didn't apply the same wisdom to himself and yanked the TC account so fast - Stephen Pickering

Jon: of course this is all a soap opera. So is real life. - Robert Scoble

If Arrington had gotten a free Pre to preview this never would havve happened - Chris Patterson

Shava: The thing is, even if this weren't the internet, all our talking heads would still be talking about this. It's like with any kind of media personality, new old doesn't matter. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Sigh. Okay. "Desperate Technorati." - Jon Lebkowsky

jeneane: No, Calacanis just asked that the listeners of TWiT do that to support the sponsors of the show. - Mike Bracco

Jeneane The contest starts on Monday. Details at squarespace.com/iphone - Vlad Bobleanta

Stephen: lots of us can see the sins in other people but can't see our own sins quite so clearly. Myself included. :-) - Robert Scoble

Chris, I see. - Kevin Whalen

I'm not sure I agree that life has to be a soap opeat, but I have to agree that it often is. - Jon Lebkowsky

Arrington was treated terribly - no doubt. is this new for him? no. has he treated others terribly? yes. will deleting the account keep people from treating him badly? no. will it stop him from treating others poorly? i doubt it. we all act like jerks sometimes. some of us have a bigger audience when it happens. some of us get a lot more crap when we do it. the folks who get extra crap... more... - MikeAmundsen

Your right, I've got to learn to practice that on myself - Stephen Pickering

These guys could use some zazen. - Jon Lebkowsky

I guess I missed the terrible part on FriendFeed - TechCrunch or Digg or the TWiT chatroom, maybe, but it seemed to me FriendFeed was rooting for Mike by the end of that show. - Jesse Stay

lol, Jon! - Shava Nerad

Lise: Lol. Dunno, we'll see. - Vlad Bobleanta

i think this can be debated for days... perhaps finding a resolution should the direction here. - Tobias Lewsadder

Sad. The Techcrunch items were some of my favorite part of Friendfeed. And I seem to remember an issue Mike wrote about some weeks back that impressed me with non-tech issues he feels strongly about. I hope he comes back with the Techcrunch account because whatever else, a few of us think he's part of here. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I think the stuff that got TechCrunch to delete friendfeed came last night. - Robert Scoble

Less chatter, more photon splatter? What's the big deal, everbody's human and loses their cool at times. Some social media/stars/hosts are working very very long days and it's way to easy to fly off the handle when someone questions your rep. - Mark Essel

Which is sad because that was the only way I read TechCrunch before. Hopefully MG continues to share his posts. - Jesse Stay

MikeAmundsen: It only takes one dog to bite out your throat. Mike's lucky in this regard that it's a bunch of people screaming at him once or twice and then disappearing into the void, so much as this issue is concerned. When you have one person in a campaign against you for a long time, though, the damage is far worse than what this mob is doing to Mike. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Tobias: yeah, not sure there is a resolution. I hope everyone who listens to me and interacts on my behalf remembers that there's people involved here. - Robert Scoble

Mike Admundsen - you nailed it - Liza

I expect the friendfeed, if it was anything like this, was too fast and nasty to moderate, and when things die down he'll be back. I can see me doing that if things got fast and nasty - Shava Nerad

WWDC needs to hurry up and get here... many you guys are bored :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

If anyone wants a divergence from this serious talk, check out this CALACANIS AUDIBLE LOVE DANCE that I just recorded from today's TWiT - http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Mike Bracco

Jesse: http://www.friendfeed.com/techcru... - someone remade it ;) - Nicholas James

Mike kept saying that a bunch of FriendFeeders wanted to see him dead. I never saw those kind of comments. Were those kind of awful things said? - Stephen Pickering

I suspect they'll get over it. I've certainly had some emotional moments that led me to delete accounts and worse. - Jon Lebkowsky

Anyway, in a week we'll be back to talking about Apple's new iPhone. Bwana is right. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

Bwana, tis true lol, I'm excited to see what Santa will bring. - Colin

And got ove rit. - Jon Lebkowsky

Robert By the sounds of it - Erle Stride

One thing to remember, on the internet we are all still people. Attack egos, attack actions but leave the people alone - Chris Patterson

Bwana: If only Palm had given more people Pre's the other day, we wouldn't be talking about this. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm with Leo - I don't think there will be a new iPhone - Jesse Stay

Yes, I will get the new Iphone!!!!!!! Yeah, I've been living with a Razor for two years, but I'm not excited about AT&T - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: yeah, but they weren't people who I recognized. Anyway, time to move on. If I ever participate in a Mob again, just kick me in the knees, OK? - Robert Scoble

Chris Patterson: AMEN. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

h Leo and Steve feel the GG and TWiT don't belong together I just wonder who will be the first to pull the trigger - Erle Stride

well, you folks solve the problems of the world, I have to go feed folks dinner...:) Seeya later Jon! Nice to run across you. - Shava Nerad

OK, I will! heheheh - Stephen Pickering

Tking acct down does nothing to address issue - scoble, we'll kick you in knees if you mob - settles it! - Liza

Shava: I gotta go play with Milan who just woke up. Seeya! - Robert Scoble

http://friendfeed.com/tad... - Internet's Tad

Tad: :) - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Yay - saved by Milan, Scoble! - Liza

And yet, a Friendfeed without Arrington is lessened. He was as much a part of Friendfeed as Scoble. Heck, it just doesn't seem like Friendfeed UNLESS you've got both Arrington and Scoble talking. - George Hall (Australia)

Deleting the FF account was an emotional reaction. I mean, think about it. Will that stop people over here talking about Mike or TC stuff? Of course not. So what's the point then? Just that Mike will never ever load FF again and therefore won't see some bad stuff being said about him? Sounds strange to me. I hope he changes his mind, because being less engaged with the audience is never good in my book. Trolls can be blocked. Bad stuff can be ignored. But to stifle what can be good conversations...why? - Vlad Bobleanta

robert could it be as simple as... arrington was a jerk, laporte overreacted in attempts to defend his integrity. both were at fault in one way or another. it is the job of the host of the show to end this all. steve needs to step up and ask everyone to drop it. - Tobias Lewsadder

Now you can't post comments to his last article on techcrunch, how cool is that? - GeorgeAris

Vlad: when people get beat up they don't always make smart decisions. - Robert Scoble

Hopefully Mike Arrington will come back to FF after a short time off, He will be missed - Kim Landwehr

Did someone make the techcrunch account again to save it for him? heh - Lise

Perhaps it's time we made an effort to make Mike feel welcome back here again. - George Hall (Australia)

Would there be agreement that this was out of character for Leo and is there anyone following this that hasn't lost it in a professional situation? I sure he meant what he said, although I'm also sure he regrets it happened and feels like an ass. - Jim Gablick

Tobias: Actually, if Steve can get the two of them in one room and shake hands and tell everyone together to lay off on the attacks, perhaps they might. It's a longshot but it could go a far way to making things better between them all, too. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Talking? I don't see Arrington as a talker...I see (saw) him as a sabre rattler and drama king. Unless there's controversy, he's not quiet. Finally, someone told him to shut the hell up for the tool behavior that's his M.O. Scob, if he couldn't stand the heat.... - C. Jason Mancebo

http://www.dramabutton.com/ - Karim

Karim: LOL> - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

+1 Karim - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Agreed. I understand. - Vlad Bobleanta

That drama button was hilarious Karim - Benjamin Taylor

Jason: I don't think Mike minded Leo going off on him so much. It's the aftermath of having the mobs kick him in the nuts that got to him, me thinks. - Robert Scoble

C. Jason: He's that too, but it is a talker. He does engage. And when he's not putting up that jerkface public persona, I'm pretty sure he's a nice, cool guy you can have drinks with. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

i cant believe that we are actually discussing this. shouldnt we feel disgusted that someone felt attacked enough to cancel his account. jerk or not he is human - Tobias Lewsadder

agreed Scoble - Kim Landwehr

never been a fan of mob mentality myself... - George Hall (Australia)

Scob, I think it's cumulative. He's gotten away with ALOT of stirring the pot for a while and people just have had it. Be a contributor, or go away....but I certainly don't agree with the "death and cancer wishes"...that's completely unnecessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: Mike is always interesting. I was at a tech industry brunch this morning with him and he's always got an interesting conversation going on. - Robert Scoble

How does the saying go... "Live by the swarm, die by the swarm"? - Ken Sheppardson

Jason: then we're on the same side. Arrington gets to me once in a while too. He knows how to push my buttons as well and get me all wound up. But that also is how he gets stories before anyone else does. - Robert Scoble

Heck, Arrington's style created BUZZZ. So why treat him badly? - George Hall (Australia)

It is almost like working for Microsoft. You get attacked daily. - Chris Patterson

C. Jason: I'm a big jerk myself, on the outside, but that doesn't mean I'm not a sensitive and caring person on the inside. He's more than just his persona, he's an actual person too. Sometimes someone does have to come out and say "stop being such a dick" to me, and no doubt to him. But attacking en mass the way this mob [redacted] is doing, that's just not right. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris Patterson: LOL. Good one. - Vlad Bobleanta

George: Arrington has done something remarkable. We always talk about him. He doesn't always like what we're saying, but I told him this morning that he has created a media company that is doing interesting things and that he should worry about the day when we're not all mobbing on him for some reason or another. - Robert Scoble

I don't understand Arrington's defense. He's really nice, soft and fluffy on the inside even though he attacks you in public and calls out your integrity? He may have his own issues to deal with, but he's in the public eye and he should expect the wrath of the Internet to reign down when he pulls an asshat move like this one. How many times does he get to slip out of the antics he... more... - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Maybe he read the Terms and Conditions here at FriendFeed and freaked out? - Kenneth Stein

George: that said, it's not always fun and games being the center of all that kind of attention. - Robert Scoble

+1 on Arrington getting stories before anyone else...when Friendfeed was down a few weeks ago, he was the only one who could provide info on why. Fastest news of that particular day. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm still not convinced we can strictly pin this on Leo fans...that video got dugg bigtime and when a mob forms, people come from everywhere - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Don't I know it. - George Hall (Australia)

Eric, does his actions, though, really warrant people to wish death upon him? (which is, apparently what he's upset about) - Lise

Chris Charabaruk: Let's just please not call them Leo fans anymore. A mob is a mob. I'm a Leo fan and was not part of any mob, ever. And I don't want that association to stick in my head. - Vlad Bobleanta

Chris, I'm sure he is, but too often, people need to hide behind their persona for whatever reason. His is the sabre rattler/pot stirrer...he went WAY too far insulting a pretty good guy's ethics. Not good, but certainly agree with the over zealous backlash..not good as well. I guess "you reap what you sew" is certainly valid - C. Jason Mancebo

Vlad: I'm also a Leo fan and I totally see your point. I'll edit that bit out... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Vlad, yes. I take offense to that whole Leo fans thing. I'm a huge Leo fan. I don't act that way. - Lise

RobertS: this seems so reminiscent of the January fracas in Europe. Why is it that Arrington engenders such anger in people (and i'm not talking about Leo here)? this isn't some cosmic joke on good ol' boy MIke Arrington. there's a lot of history here. there's a lot of anger that Arrington has exhibited over a long period of time. don't get me wrong, i feel badly for the man. but not... more... - MikeAmundsen

let him go. - Stalyn☂

Eric: integrity is something we should always ask of each other. I don't mind if you ask me those kinds of questions. I got a review unit of the Palm Pre too. You SHOULD be asking whether that biases my review in some way. Mike was mostly digging for a story yesterday, not attacking Leo. That's something you gotta know Arrington about. He was digging and got a reaction he wasn't expecting. - Robert Scoble

The internet is full of high octane evil. It waits for an opportunity such as this to wish death on a person. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, I heard that yesterday, and Leo just popped off. Mike really didn't deserve this one, which you can hear. What upsets me now is that I can see he does personalize a lot of this stuff, which was really done by Leo's audience, and Leo's chat room has an audience I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy. I loved it when we started the FF chat so I wouldn't have to listen to Leo's immature... more... - Francine Hardaway

it seems like people who have been angered by mike at one time or another are using this as an opportunity to lay into him. - Tobias Lewsadder

C Jason: Exactly , it is one thing to attack a persons opinion, but attacking someone's ethics is really harsh - Chris Patterson

No one deserves it - Bwana ☠ from IM

Francine: well said. - Robert Scoble

We had a good discussion yesterday at a tweetup in the city about the whole thing. I think MIke ABSOLUTELY deserved this one. It's been a long time coming. The whole backlash, not deserved, but not surprised. - C. Jason Mancebo

WHAT!!!? - Jason Pollock

C. Jason: if Mike was hiding behind his persona instead of showing the real self, he'd be blasting back at his detractors, not removing their comments and killing the old TC account here. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

NO ONE deserves to have personal attacks that deal with their life or family. - Chris Patterson

I don't think these are even people who were angered by Mike, it was just mob rule. And there's no such thing as an online conversation that's "a long time coming" and bad enough to make someone want to get away from being online. That shouldn't be the way we act. - Francine Hardaway

So Arrington and the other guy worked it out between themselves...so why should a mob stretch things any further? - George Hall (Australia)

Lise, you are absolutely right, that isn't right; no threats are necessary. I didn't see that here however. Not from the regular FF crowd that have regular activity, so I really didn't see that personally. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Chris: Mike wasn't attacking someone else's ethics. Listen carefully to both shows yesterday. He was asking questions. Leo took it too personally, me thinks (he thinks so too, in hind sight). If your ethics are really above reproach you can answer calmly and professionally. - Robert Scoble

Chris, I think he was hiding behind it in public and now is effected beyond the persona. - C. Jason Mancebo

Francine: very well said. - Vlad Bobleanta

Francine: agreed #2. Well said. - Robert Scoble

Geroge Hall correct. - Francine Hardaway

George: Mob mentality. 100 sheep on their own are perfectly fine, but if they freak out and charge in the same direction... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Francine: mobs can get out of control here in the real time web. Not sure how we can fix that. - Robert Scoble

Scoble, I gotta respectfully disagree with you. He was absolutely trying to make something out of nothing. Totally NOT ETHICAL! - C. Jason Mancebo

Well, you don't want to be in their way. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

These things push my buttons because I see so much potential for good in the online community and I want the bad stuff to go away. I know that's unrealistic - Francine Hardaway

Eric, I didn't notice those either but I wasn't the one attacked and wasn't looking for those. Despite that, Mike saw it/felt it. That's the point. - Lise

Never liked mobs, never liked being on receiving end of them, never liked following any. - George Hall (Australia)

Making a story is not creating a story. Not cool! - C. Jason Mancebo

Jason: I can understand how you see it that way. DId you watch the second Gilmor Gang last night? Mike explained why he was asking those questions and Leo answered much more calmly. - Robert Scoble

I vote we try to help Mike feel wanted here again. - George Hall (Australia)

maybe leo should join us and ask people to lay off - Tobias Lewsadder

Robert, I haven't heard the second show, but in the first one Leo clearly said that it was a review unit. - Chris Patterson

I'm going to email mike. - Francine Hardaway

Jason: personally the free stuff and review units and access DO bias our reporting and that's something that we SHOULD talk about calmly and professionally. Our audiences should hear our answers. I don't think Mike's question was one that shouldn't be asked. Of EVERYONE. - Robert Scoble

Robert, did you get a hold of Leo about this yet? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Scoble, I think it was prettied up for public consumption by both of them. Sure, Leo could have been better about it. Absolutely. But I just am not with you on that one. Agree to disagree on this. - C. Jason Mancebo

You should see the second show. You haven't seen that, you can't really get the gist of it. imho. - Vlad Bobleanta

This is not about Arrington but about much larger issues and tensions that are brewing - amt of comments is undeniable proof of that. - Liza

Robert Scoble, I understand your point. "If you only knew him..." I'm sure if I had a beer with the guy I'd grow to love him and all, but I haven't and all I have to go on is what I saw, and I can't side with M.A., not after his history with shooting first with his posts and comments. He really needs to put himself in the mind of the public that find a problem with his actions without... more... - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Chris: and Mike, in the second show, explained why he was asking that. Techcrunch didn't get a review unit and his theory is that Palm is only giving review units to people who are saying nice things about Palm. - Robert Scoble

On the early access units, how in the hell is anyone (Scoble, McCracken, Ubergizmo) supposed to review anything early without early access units. It's not a gift, it's a loaner. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: I'm calling Leo now. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo was right in getting mad - Johnathan Schultz

Ask Leo to come in here - Lise

Come on guys. If you haven't watched the second show, you're blowing in the wind. - Nick in Manila

This talk of super-scary Friendfeed "mobs" is all a little hyperbolic. - Christopher A Carr

Leo should not have said such inflammatory things.. Even if he was pissed off he could have handled himself in a professional manner on the air - Jason Pollock

mike totally clarified himself and leo apologized for taking it the wrong way. - Tobias Lewsadder

A promoter is not a journalist. Much of what I see on TC, and here and elsewhere illustrates that YOU are buzzing things, creating hype which in part drives it forward. The coverage ought to be balanced though, and it's going to likely lead to unfortunate and unnecessary consequences. This might shed a bit of light on it. http://bit.ly/LfVJk - Kenneth Stein

Jason: I hate the review unit thing. Walt Mossberg got his weeks ago. - Robert Scoble

I guess nobody takes Sunday evenings with their families these days, eh? - Ken Sheppardson

Johnathan: Leo's anger was justified, yeah, but how he expressed it was a bit much. But how the way the mob took it as a call to action, that's bad. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I think it should be stressed that Leo can't be held responsible for anything anyone else says. On the irc chat, here wherever. - Vlad Bobleanta

It is really too bad the conversation went bad. Mike really did have some good questions to ask about how business ethics and free products review or not. He just started the conversation really badly - Kim Landwehr

leo's language on the air incited the hate comments that techcrunch got - Jason Pollock

HI Liza, well, I see it yes and no....this specific thing is a good example of "you don't get to be a shit stirrer and get away with it forever". - C. Jason Mancebo

Christopher: A mob is a mob, online or off. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Lise, getting threats like that is something no one should go through, I agree. People should act with civility. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Interesting post of Mike Arrington(The New York Times Sunday edition): The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Johni Fisher

On the AIR? Lol there's no FCC regulation yet....I'll refrain from scribing the 7 deadlies here - Kenneth Stein

Looked to me like he was being a jerk and got called on it "what are you going to do about it?" is not the kind of retort that should pass between two adults. That being said, it also looks like Leo has decided to move on so should the rest of us. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Vlad: That's true, but he can still encourage them to act more responsibly. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

J Abdul, I think the "what are you going to do about it" was still when Mike thought it was all kind of a joke - Lise

Scoble, it's not like they but a hundy in the package and say "review away" :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

No one's going to move on until there's something else to talk about ;) Come on WWDC! - Bwana ☠ from IM

Offline mobs hurt more when they hit you with an actual physical object, as opposed to pissy comments variety of assault from dangerous Friendfeed "mobs." - Christopher A Carr

Ken S, I just fired up the grill. Great day on the coast in HMB today. BBQ and wine happens soon :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

we all benefit from the work that mike does. tech crunch has been a daily read for me for years... although you may disagree with some of his methods, is wishing him death really appropriate - Tobias Lewsadder

C. Jason: They don't have to. Just having the thing before everyone else creates an incentive for acting non-ethically. After all, they give you a review unit (even one you need to return) because you gave them a good review might encourage you to keep giving good reviews for the opportunity to play with the latest gadgets first. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris: Yes, and I think he should. Let's just keep in mind, those are just random people who he probably never met. And in the case of the irc chat, are mostly anonymous. Which is part of the problem imo. - Vlad Bobleanta

Tobias, i think we all agree that the backlash has gone to far...yes, - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, research idicates that being teased and taunted oftentimes is more painful than being hit. - Kenneth Stein

Who were these random people anyway? Friendfeed regulars, or blow-ins? - George Hall (Australia)

I agree, and i think this onslaught has gone on far enough - Johnathan Schultz

Time to man up Arrington. The storm's here and.... Oohh look, another iPhone rumor - Bwana ☠ from IM

George, I'm sure some were FF regulars. I don't think because you have a FF account it makes you of right mind. heh Unfortunately. - Lise

Just a computer engineer, patent attorney, developing some tech - Kenneth Stein

@George Hall: Gillmor Gang regulars. - 321

"Onslaught?" Please. - Christopher A Carr

People need to get a tiny bit of perspective instead of social media tunnel vision - Nathan Cooprider

One thing I would really like to see come from this is that folks like Arrington with the "Not quite so stringent, shoot first retract later" ethics understand that people give a shit about that and it's not cool. - C. Jason Mancebo

George Hall: mostly non-regulars, or that was my impression at least. But not exclusively. Arrington is easy to hate, that's the truth. And some people just need to hate something. Or someone. That is all. - Vlad Bobleanta

Its just feels like this has gone a little to far - Johnathan Schultz

Tobias, but I'm not sure that we wouldn't benefit MORE from TC if it was a bit less "NY POST" ish - C. Jason Mancebo

The whole evening Gilmore Gang put everything into context. It was really interesting, lots of questions and talking points raised regarding technology reporting, journalistic integrity and consumed content. Even a discussion about the GG show itself. It's unfortunate that a few people ran with the 1 minute clip and formed an opinion without looking at the whole day in context. - Benjamin Taylor

I want to make a quick statement, because this is how it seems to be framed here for some. Just because we are choosing to criticize him doesn't mean we are part of a mob or are threatening him. The debate should not be framed as Arrington versus bloodsucking Friendfeed mob. There is no defense for threats, online or off. No one is debating that that I have seen. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

@Johnathan Schultz: It has, but what are us bored geeks with too much time on their hands to do? - 321

jason: agreed - Tobias Lewsadder

Scoble, pretty great day on the coast for an Arrington discussion, no :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

I do have to say that this whole incident is the reason I've came over to FF permanently. - kenneth glenn

Benjamin: agreed. Eric: death threats is a mob in my book. Noone is referring to criticism, but rather to threats and mindless stuff. - Vlad Bobleanta

If someone has actually threatened his safety, that's one thing, but I must say I found it almost funny that he was so upset over terrifying Friendfeed "mobs." - Christopher A Carr

anyone know arrington for an extended period of time? has he always been like this? - Tobias Lewsadder

Vlad, right, death threats are wrong, but that doesn't make me or anyone here criticizing this incident as part of the mob. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

shiftoptionk - that is the core of the issue :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

I think that many people just took the opportunity to join in on the "I hate you Arrington" bandwagon when that started yesterday. Today they're all probably busy in Google Reader (even though RSS is apparently dead) reading the latest TechCrunch posts. - 321

I seem to remember a techcrunch article Mike did weeks back about a different issue...one where he took a principled stand. I wonder if non-regular mob making threats relates more to that than the Gilmour gang thing. - George Hall (Australia)

We're reaching again. Terrifying mobs? Where did that come from? He was getting abused, wasn't seeing any real poing to sharing stuff here, so he deleted the account. It makes his life easier. We're sorta going off the deep end... once again. - Ken Sheppardson

@Christopher No one wants to read death threats about themselves. Real or otherwise. - Glenn Trtanj

bwana: elaborate please - Tobias Lewsadder

shiftoptionk - it was a buildup. This is how Arrington is. Leo got tired of it. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Some days you can take it, some days you blow up - Bwana ☠ from IM

afterwards, they made up..but you can believe Arrington will do it again - Bwana ☠ from IM

Bwana, absolutely agree...lots of folks obviously tire of it. - C. Jason Mancebo

i know he has been like this for a while but im askking if this was the type of guy he was before getting into this business or has the business changed him - Tobias Lewsadder

Ken: This is yet another overreaction, yes. This weekend is really something. However some people do take bad things very personally, and maybe Mike is one of them. Dunno, I haven't met him. - Vlad Bobleanta

Personally, I think TechCrunch on FriendFeed is better as a room anyway. It enforces the separation between a person and their business. That said, I do hope that Mike comes back, and that everyone behaves civilly when he's around. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Excuse me, but if Arrington didn't say anything that stirred the pot, it'd be boring in here - George Hall (Australia)

optionshiftk - that I don't know - Bwana ☠ from IM

George: Damn right. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

And I would ask, on a different note, if someone called out you're ethics in the work that puts food on your table in front of everyone at your place of work, plus or minus 50,000 people, how would you react? With anger I bet. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

I have a shiny drama button here for those that are bored - Bwana ☠ from IM

We need something like http://instantrimshot.com that automatically generates FF drama. - Ken Sheppardson

@George Hall (Australia): Indeed, gives us something to talk about until tomorrow. People just seem to be over analysing all of this. - 321

Chris, I don't agree with your logic on early access = incentive for ethical problems. Lot's of folks get early stuff. The only issue that I see is lots of FALSE POSITIVE reviews by lot's of up and comers...but not the Leo Laportes of the world. - C. Jason Mancebo

And for those that want real drama, please refer to the french fry vs onion rings vs tater tots debate: http://ff.im/3H1oA - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

If anyone thought Friendfeed was JUST Robert Scoble, they missed half the point. It was equal amounts Scoble AND Arrington. The thrust and parry of the differing viewpoints sometimes. - George Hall (Australia)

cstechcast - Yeah, some people think it's excusable because it's "interesting" and it's entertaining. I don't, but that doesn't change the situation though. I never liked the way Arrington did his thing, but I doubt he cares and I doubt it'll affect his career. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Eric: no. And Leo wouldn't have done it angrily if it wasn't for the feeling that he was being Mike's target. When you get questioned, you keep your cool and explain. Leo said exactly this tonight. - Vlad Bobleanta

C. Jason: A false positive review IS an ethical violation, BY VIRTUE OF BEING FALSE. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George, Arrington was really never on Friendfeed. He was not active here. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

His account was. - George Hall (Australia)

posted some thoughts on this in the longer post here http://friendfeed.com/parisle... - MG Siegler

and he was a part of Robert' - George Hall (Australia)

s best posts. - George Hall (Australia)

Vlad, that is the logical thing to do, but that would not be most people's gut reaction. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

MG: Well played. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

You can't be putting feelings before facts, I like facts. - Colin

Arrington wasn't sitting around on FF all day, but he was here. There were several comments from him over the past few days. - Ken Sheppardson

Colin: Sure you can put feelings before facts. If you couldn't, politicians would be out of work. ;) - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I got along just fine on FriendFeed without Arrington - but that's not really a big thing - Bwana ☠ from IM

We all have to step away at times... I wouldn't delete my account, but I'm not Mike Arrington - Bwana ☠ from IM

Scoble, have you seen MA's comments on TC? He's admitting to saying "We were promised one but it wasn’t delivered" but the comments are targeted at LL, not at Palm. That's completely shit stirring. Just not necessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

that's why I'm not trying to understand his POV ...or Leo's... it's their business - Bwana ☠ from IM

@Lise not really something you say in jest... Those are or (at least were) what the old folks used to call "fighting words" and the only real reason to say them to someone is a) the two people in question are physically separated or b) the one person doesn't think the other is actually going to do any thing. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Bwana, I agree, we talk about this and I guess it's proof stirring the pot gets you your celebrity. Next stop, reality show. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

bingo - Bwana ☠ from IM

it's all one big drama button until WWDC ;) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Well that's my hokmah moment for the day, I'll be over here watching the game - Bwana ☠ from IM

I agree with @Bwana but this happens everytime Mike thinks he's going to read something he doesn't like..just as right before he deleted TC's friendfeed account. We may not know him as a person but his actions have always preceeded him. - John Blanton from twhirl

Just talked with Leo. He hadn't realized this was all still cooking, but admits that people have said some really horrid things. - Robert Scoble

J Abdul, I completely disagree. Of course you can say that in jest. You can even, as Mike assumed, throw F bombs at someone... in jest. - Lise

Now that he does know, I hope that he'll come out and say something about it, see if he can put the whole matter to rest finally. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

When I called Leo he answered "are you calling me on your Pre?" Ahhh, the fun we have behind the scenes. ;-) (I wasn't, my Pre is charging). - Robert Scoble

i think leo is focused on wwdc - Tobias Lewsadder

Big tech boys and their toys...and the surrounding jealousy :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, you still haven't done anything with that Pre, my god! Aren't you curious to play with it? heh - Lise

On twit earlier he was laughing and thought it had all blown over - Jack

Lise: I took some pictures on it today and will do a writeup later. - Robert Scoble

Jack: yeah. I told him these were aftershocks like what happens after a big earthquake. - Robert Scoble

i saw that it syncs with itunes... does it sync calendar and address book thru itunes or thru isync? - Tobias Lewsadder

Anyway, I gotta go, otherwise Maryam is gonna go off on me in public and that won't be fun either. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Robert - just don't walk off of her show! - jeneane sessum

Cya Robert! - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Calacanis made a joke on Twit today when Leo began talking about the Pre, my senses stepped up and became more sensitive for a second there. - Colin

Robert, see ya. Can't wait to hear about the Pre! - Lise

later scoble - Tobias Lewsadder

I was hoping he would set the record straight. It's hard to counter a 90 second youtube clip and the hour follow up with Arrington yesterday isn't widely availible. - Jack

I suspect readers/viewers would have hated the vast majority of reporters from Benjamin Franklin on if they saw the man behind the news then, the way we often can now. Journalism isn't a gentile profession. If you don't want arrogance, then go get your news from a convent. Otherwise, expect and accept that these people are who they are and, for the most part, you get higher quality, more hard hitting news because of it. So appreciate that Arrington is an arrogant ass and leave him alone. - Dawn

Robert here's the thing .. we're all huge fans of Leo and how can we not have something to say about this for good or for ill? - John Blanton from twhirl

Robert's original point was that Arrington copped a tremendous amount of mob attack including threats to Arrington. Sounds interesting for what was essentially a small and resolved issue between him and Leo. I have to wonder if the mob were actually Facebook hategroups pretending to be friendfeeders, since Mike did write an article on Techcrunch about the fact Facebook allows hate groups a say. - George Hall (Australia)

Gee,that quietened everyone. Is the silence the sound of people thinking? - George Hall (Australia)

So... how long until we get a Laporte/Christian Bale mashup? - Jack

I was just thinking about the earthquake analogy...is it a force of nature, if it were not for this thread, would we be talking about this? - Benjamin Taylor

I think most folks walked away after they realized that Robert actually did go AFK to spend time with his family. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Jack: LOL. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

If your a public figure such as an editor of a magazine, you need thicker skin this. This seems to be a reoccuring thing. People say bad things about him and he goes away. If he didn't want the negative comments or feedback maybe he should stop being such an asshole. He attracts this even when not saying crap about people. He gets what he deserves. Leo gets crap as well and i have not see him leave. He just moves on and tries to prove himself in his work. With respect on top of it all. - CW™

In real terms, it's Arrington's job to create buzz and pot-stir. So is that a reason for him to get such a mob reaction and threats? No. - George Hall (Australia)

And if there's one thing that won my respect for him it was that stand he took weeks ago on that Facebook issue. - George Hall (Australia)

While Arrington might have expected a backlash from Facebook users, here was where he least expected it. - George Hall (Australia)

Speaking of mob in a gentler way...does everyone HAVE to go quiet when Robert leaves the conversation? - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: why was FF never meant to be used like Robert uses it? He gets some interesting conversation going. - George Hall (Australia)

Most people are probably here looking for Scoble's attention, and want him to respond to them personally. - Jack

Robert also feels strongly about what happened to Mike, as for whatever else, they're friends. And he's allowed to defend his friend. - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: Discussion is EXACTLY how FriendFeed is supposed to be used. I don't see a blog post here. I see Robert starting a conversation, and contributing his two cents here and there. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George, haha I went quiet when Robert left. I just assumed the whole thing would go quiet. Plus, you know Robert can keep a conversation going. - Lise

+1 Chris. - George Hall (Australia)

I wonder if Robert hopes we'll keep a thread going without him once in a while. - George Hall (Australia)

George: LOL, probably. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George: yes. :-) - Robert Scoble

LOL - Lise

If anyone hasn't heard part 2 of the Gillmor Gang it's here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Angrykeyboarder: this IS my blog on the topic. :-) - Robert Scoble

+1 Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

People who know Mike: Do you think he'll cool down and come back to FriendFeed? - Bruce Lewis

What a wknd ..sooo strong feelings - Johni Fisher

I hope Mike DOES come back. I miss his feeds already. - George Hall (Australia)

I stopped reading TechCrunch some time last year, but started following it on FriendFeed after Mike's month in Hawaii. My impression is that depth/quality has gone up. Not that I did a scientific study or anything. - Bruce Lewis

Woah, I thought I was going to have to ask the question, but it seems the impression I got is coming out in the end. I felt certain that Leo had learned from the past to recognize the Arrington pattern, and that he saw some familiar threads and immediately kicked the loom out of the weaver's hands. In my reading of past things that don't even involve Leo, Arrington's been a subject of... more... - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Intellectual or professional disagreement doesn't have to mean personal disagreement. While I'd disagree on some of Mike's points, I have nothing against the man personally. And there's still a fair amount of stuff he's written I DO agree with. The Facebook hate group article for one. That shows Mike has principles. - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for that audio link, Jack... and Robert, I haven't blogged much lately either, but I did in this case... without hearing part2 first! - Richard ¿digame? Walker

People disappoint. I am no fan of Mike Arrington's, but I wish him no ill either. To have even one person wish him cancer or otherwise is just awful. With that said, I no longer buy the "he's a sensitive guy" routine. He's either a tough guy or he's a victim, and the victim seems to emerge when he's wrong. He has the power. He has the attention. He wields it. By his own admission, his... more... - Karoli

I wish him a little bit of ill will. Just minor ill will. Like maybe the apples he selects to be slightly less sweet than he was hoping for, or his timing chain to hop one tooth and make his car ride just a bit rough, or his shoe lace to break when he's tying them. - Matthew DeVries

lol @Matthew - Louis Simoneau

Fortunately, wishing cancer on someone is not going to make it happen. I could stand right next to Arrington, shut my eyes really tight and mentally chant "get cancer" for hours, and the only result would be indesputable proof of my utter stupidity. I'd have to laugh at the goofball who expressed such a sentiment. I would expend actual thought processes on the ones who wished for bodily harm, because those folks might bump into Arrington at a floor show or before or after a session at a conference. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

found this link at the same time I was listening to this: http://bit.ly/2nhNLw via @arrington and Leo afterword. Didn't see the link, apologies if it's already been posted. - motownmutt

I'm not sure why people hate Mike so personally, it's ok to disagree with him but Mike and TechCrunch seams to have a lot of hate aimed at them for no apparent reason. - DarknessFalls

motownmutt: thats a direct link to the second part of the show. It's from the "bootleg" feed (read:only feed) which includes the first part of the show, as well as last weeks show, and older shows: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Actually, it's already resolved between Leo and Mike anyway. And that's really where it should have stayed anyway. Resolved between those concerned. Doesn't need mob commentary afterwards, doesn't need threats to Mike, doesn't need the bullsh**. - George Hall (Australia)

I've been hiding all of these entries about Mike and Leo. I decided to read yours Robert because I know you. Here are some of my thoughts. First, I don't know either Mike or Leo and have never been influenced by either one of them. Second, I love listening to Leo's shows but cannot stand TechCrunch and the attitudes on that site. Third, Mike was the first (and only) person I... more... - LPH™ and his dog P™

@DarknessFalls, I think it was said that some people hold Arrington responsible for the failures of their ventures. He gives his opinion, & people listen (I think). If someone's project didn't make sense to Arrrington, and he said as much, it could hurt. Could the people in this flap be a different group? I hope so. @LPH: Interesting take you have there. You're saying the very post that I thought allowed Arrington and Leo to patch things up actually caused his problem with those who weren't involved? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

LPH: Actually, Mike contributed in other ways. With the things he'd say to Robert, he'd get some real discussion moving anyway. And I liked his feed. Some of the best things I "liked" were Arrington's feed items. Mike didn't contribute? You mustn't have been paying attention. I'm sure Robert can tell you how Mike contributed in quieter, less noticeable ways to the discussions and other things. - George Hall (Australia)

I don't think channeling through Scoble is actually contributing...maybe that's just me. - Bwana ☠

BoringMage: Some people holding it against Arrington for pointing out major flaws in their products meant their products were flawed. People like Arrington voicing concerns can help them improve or come out with better. Sometimes a harsh critic can be your best friend. If what he says helps you come out with better. In which case, I think Mike was still in the right to voice concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm, at the moment, really needs to have the Pre being a hit. But there's some design flaws in the hardware they're going to need to correct fast. That's a valid point. Otherwise I can see them being sued for having edges on the phone so sharp people can injure themselves. - George Hall (Australia)

I would like to know, in 100% honesty, how many people heard part 2 before commenting, including the apology? I admit - I did not hear it until a few minutes ago. Anyone want to chime in? - Liza

Bwana: sometimes, the greatest contributor is the one who sets things up for someone to kick a goal. - George Hall (Australia)

And, when Scoble's back in this discussion, I'm sure he'll tell people how much Arrington DID contribute in a quiet way. - George Hall (Australia)

@GeorgeH: I think what you said is exactly what the person who said Arrington was blamed for others' lack of success was trying to convey. Since I haven't done anything worthy of Arrington's notice, I wouldn't be trying to lay any blame at his feet, nor would I criticize him for pointing out problems, at least not if he let the organization know and gave the organizers a chance to address those concerns. @Liza: I listened to both and read the TC post yesterday. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Not sure what the big deal is on the TC FF account really is. Seemed like nothing but the TC RSS feed being piped into FF for likes and comments. - Rolf Schewe

Two ways to look at how a tech blog criticizing your product affects you. On a non-personal way, they show you you have a flaw. Whether privately telling you or publicly telling you, they're making you aware of it. If you take it personally, you don't improve your product, you just lash out at the messenger. - George Hall (Australia)

People from all types of disciplines follow the Tech Industry. Tech Industry Reviewers become brands that often influence our decisions as trending consumers to become early adopters of new products and services. The most popular brands will always receive benefits from the companies such as freebies, pre-release models, and exclusive (or first opportunity) interviews. The public... more... - thestaticfrost

Thanks for answering my question @boringmage - I was not sure what to think but wanted to see others' rationale, so I followed the stream. I had seen so much noise about it but not the audio part 2. This reshapes the reasoning. - Liza

George: he sure participated more here than Kara Swisher or Walt Mossberg. At some level, though, friendfeed is an aggregator and people deserve participation credit just for putting their feed in here. - Robert Scoble

At the moment I don't get paid for doing a tech review on my own blog. I simply look at the fact it does help if I've used or played with the thing I review. For the most part, I'll point out its good features. But where it has areas to improve, I'll also point those out, too. But someone feels they're going to complain because I point out one or two areas need something a tad better???? - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for validating how much Mike did contribute, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

The other part of this whole thing that bothers me is how Steve has been characterized as this guy who doesn't care about his listeners. If he didn't care about his listeners, he'd produce a show just like every other show out there. Instead he chooses to focus on what he views as important for his listeners to hear. He's been right far more often than he's been wrong, by the way. - Karoli

Geez, wonder if mainstream media ever gets this much discussion these days as much as this one show did. - George Hall (Australia)

If comments in here were ratings, the Gilmore Gang would be a number one show. - George Hall (Australia)

Perhaps it's time to get Gilmore Gang on a mainstream media channel... - George Hall (Australia)

George: Mainstream Media talks this way about themselves so they can justify their existence. - Owen Greaves

Why can't we have a rating system? I think we need a web rating system that encompasses comments too.... - Sid Burgess

Liza, I heard most of the post drama drama today on live.twit.tv on a repeat. Gilmore certainly was upset as well. Seemed to take the whole thing pretty personally as well. Not sure how that has turned out. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Sid: I would love an Internet-wide identity system. But that is really hard to do and get everyone to participate in. - Robert Scoble

Wait. Why is this interesting? - l0ckergn0me

Well, that crack that whip Scoble! :D Actually, I think it would have some self-momentum... people want ratings, advertisers want value... hmmm? - Sid Burgess

He deleted the account because he can't control the conversation. - Jim Posner

Man Google Wave would be so handy right now in a thread like this! - Sid Burgess

Oh no; then you'd see my spelling mistakes in realtime - Jack

;) @jack - Sid Burgess

@l0ckergn0me: I'm hoping to learn something so I can be half as big as you one day and not make the same mistakes that others make so publicly for me. So if I have something wrong, by all means correct me! [edit: I know you like helping people; help me! ;) ] - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

As an pretty unbiased 3rd party, I am wondering why so few responded to listening to part 2 on audio. I know I am not 'relevant' to the crew, but it is a fair question. - AND re: why is it interesting - EXACTLY, it is not interesting except that so many are interested, so as a curious person, I want to understand it. - Liza

Gee, imagine doing any reviews or critiques of any product if you felt constrained for pointing out it had a flaw or if you saw products to review given ONLY to those writing JUST good things. - George Hall (Australia)

Liza: the problem is the youtube video is 90 seconds long and the part 2 is over 1 hour - Jack

people dont have the patience to sit through that. Compare 112 thousand views, to 2 thousand clicks (so far) on the bit.ly link: http://bit.ly/info/2nhNLw - Jack

Jack - fair enough, but this is a 4 HOUR STREAM -and for some really strong opinions, if I were an "influencer", I sure would not say something w/o doing my research - Liza

That's exactly the problem here. Both you and I wouldn't give our opinions without the full picture. But the so called "influencers" just mouth off without doing the proper research, like the "problem" with blogging where unsubstantiated claims and heresay is published. - Jack

Is that like what M.A. does frequently? - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, I think Arrington does do his research. - George Hall (Australia)

Michael does fact-check or tells people it is unconfirmed in the post, generally. - Neal Jansons from IM

That wasn't directed at Mike at all, he's an excellent blogger - Jack

+1 Jack. Mike does excellent blogs - George Hall (Australia)

George, I have to disagree. He's much more of a shoot from the hip and retract later if I get called on it type of guy. Tthe truth or the facts are good, but only if it's interesting and gets him some buzz. - C. Jason Mancebo

Perhaps it's more like being accused of rape then vindicated, people wil only remember the more sensational story. - Jack

Not directed at Michael or anyone in particular. I asked a simple question, who listened to part 2 audio and few answered. Not directed at anyone. - Liza

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was interesting to hear Leo realize what the Gillmor Gang is really about in this second part: I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. Thoughts? - Jack

Liza, I think it might be a little late to expect a flood of comments. This is natural around here. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Who says geeks and nerds are dull? - George Hall (Australia)

Those who are not geeks/nerds :) - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

@Jack: At first I couldn't figure out where you got that impression, but now I wonder if you're talking about the part where Leo was (if I recall correctly) saying to Steve that he got the impression that what was happening in the show wasn't what Steve wanted happening in the show, and when he was asking him what he wanted to do about it (with someone saying it doesn't have to be discussed right there in public). Is that what you're referring to? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

If I had already been physically assaulted (spit on), had my family threatened, and then had a mob of people come after me online - deleting an account on a social network probably would be a quick decision. - Matthew McCowan

I mean that Leo was expressing his concern over the high amounts of drama on the show, which he disliked and thinks can be advoided, to which Steve and Robert explained was inevitable and part of the show. - Jack

I need to go listen more, methinks. Just not tonight. Gotta be at work in 8 hours. I can seriously understand not expecting drama, though. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

I predict GG moves over to Mahalo. - Jim Posner

Oh, wait, I forgot that screaming, mean vlogger guy is on that show; of COURSE there will be drama! - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Jim: that actually seems like a good fit for the show. i personally think steve should find a way to host it so he can have full control. - Tobias Lewsadder

Could also be an interesting get for B43. - Jim Posner

Reminds me how silky things can get over objects/tech. In Australia you can get fist fights over Ford and Holden (GM) - George Hall (Australia) from BuddyFeed

The show has been very different since it came to Twit. Much more tamed down. This week was almost a return to form, except that Leo ended the show. One of my favourite pre twit shows was when all the other hosts were laying into Scoble for wasting a year of his life on Friendfeed. He was right in the end of course, but the confict that sparks heated debates is why I started listening to the show. - Jack

Guess it's never boring, then. - George Hall (Australia)

It's a shame he felt he needed to. It's a bad decision which is an unfortunate one. - James Stratford

Robert I got to agree w/you on Techcruch. Did u read about: TechCrunch's Notes | The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism http://ff.im/3HS0e - polou/indigo_bow

Ryo: A few months down the track you'll probably be playing with a crunchpad. And you'll be thinking it a nice piece of tech...but are you going to throw it away when you realize Arrington's associated with it? There are trolls and there are trolls. I don't think Arrington was a troll. Pot-stirrer yes. Troll no. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I totally disagree with you. Techcrunch has helped many many companies launch and provides a valuable service in getting lots of people to pay attention to the tech industry. Arrington is far far from a troll. Is he a jerk sometimes? Yes. But just being hard to live with does NOT make one a troll and neither does bringing up a good argument once in a while. But to try to claim that that's all Techcrunch does is simply false and I won't let it stand in the comment thread that I started. - Robert Scoble

Makes me wonder if Ryo knows who defaced Arrington's wikipedia page... - George Hall (Australia)

the ip addresses are there in the history George - Chris Heath

Hope Wikipedia rectifies it. - George Hall (Australia)

Arrington really opened up a lot in that conversation with Leo. I think his explanations there really explained a lot on why he has to wear a thick skin and act the way others perceive at times. The way he manned up and apologized to Leo I think was very impressive. I will forever see him in different eyes now - I really respect Arrington since yesterday. - Jesse Stay

And Robert, have you consoled Tina yet? she seemed pretty down in here recent tweet: http://friendfeed.com/tinagil... - Chris Heath

Jesse, me too - Chris Heath

There's a few of us who have a lot of respect for Arrington and his principles. - George Hall (Australia)

George, a few million you mean, right? - Chris Heath

Robert: If Mike Arrington feels THAT strong about 'the mob' - why didn't he delete his Twitter feed too? Could it be the hundreds of thousands of followers he has been 'gifted' because of his 'special relationship' with the Twitter guys? - Jim Connolly

That too, Chris. You probably have a better idea than me of exact numbers. - George Hall (Australia)

It's sad too that all this fuss over a mere misunderstanding in a show gets so out of hand, because it affects the families, too. Sad because it's sorted out between Mike and Leo, but a whole bunch of people outside of it take things too far. Seriously, nobody had any right to make threats to Mike. - George Hall (Australia)

I just hope everyone can forgive and can move on with good stories and news. - Darren Lowery

Ryo: That's you. Me, I'm itching to own a crunchpad. - George Hall (Australia)

The Tech News Blog (when do we get to know your real name?) I'm sure he looked at the results he was getting, and I'm 100% sure he was seeing night and day results better on Twitter than FriendFeed. I'm sure he weighed his losses, and FriendFeed wasn't worth the negative brand image when compared to the traffic he was getting. Mike's a business man - I highly doubt it was anything personal. - Jesse Stay

I really cannot understand all this vehemence against Arrington. Neither can Robert, either, nor a fair few Friendfeed regulars. And Ryo, I really do not understand where your vehemence towards him comes from. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: My name only changed here a few days ago, it's Jim Connolly - full contact details here http://jimsmarketingblog.com/contact... FriendFeed has not given Arrington a negative brand image - he did. - Jim Connolly

Ryo, to understand him I think you really have to put yourself in his shoes. He's had a whole lot of people be jerks to him. I'm sure that would get to you. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: So, if he's so worried about what the mob are saying about his brand, why isn't he worried about his brand on Twitter? - Jim Connolly

Guess you didn't read the right articles, Ryo. - George Hall (Australia)

Jim, I'm sure he couldn't afford to lose Twitter - that's my guess. FriendFeed I doubt was doing much for him, at least in his eyes. - Jesse Stay

Ryo, would I be an asshole for having something against hate groups? And if I did, would you still be saying it's my fault for *insert whichever reason*? - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I have no problem with him leaving FriendFeed, I just call bullshit on him suggesting it was the mob that drove him out. If it was the mob, he would have left Twitter, where they are REALLY attacking the guy. For the record, as a Tech News blogger myself, I have a lot of respect for what he has achieved. - Jim Connolly

Many people on the Interwebs are idiots--just look at nearly any YouTube comment! I'm not sure I buy that Arrington is that sensitive about how people have reacted--he's an Internet professional and he more than anyone should understand these outrageous, hate-filled comments are just a bunch of blowhard a-holes. That being said, Arrington had an opportunity to stop Leo and clear the... more... - Paul Salzman

Paul: I know Mike and talked with him at length this morning, both on phone and face to face. He's actually pretty sensitive, but puts on a tough face. It's an interesting part of his personality to see. - Robert Scoble

Ryo: do you buy Apple products? Jobs is a bigger jerk than I've seen Arrington ever be. Ryo: name one newcomer Arrington destroyed. Just one. I'd love to hear his/her story. - Robert Scoble

The Tech News Blog: good point about Twitter. I think Arrington likes that he has half a million followers there while me and Leo have been kicking his ass here on friendfeed (I was kicking his ass on Twitter too, before Twitter added him to the recommended follower list, which zoomed him above me and Leo). - Robert Scoble

TechCrunch leaving Friendfeed is sad, because even when we disagree with each other, it is nice to have a discussion going. - Mike Chelen

Robert: I know about you and Leo kicking is butt on Twitter before the recommended list started. (I have been chatting with you on Twitter for well over a year now!) - Jim Connolly

Robert: Re Twitter followers, seen this from earlier: http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009... - Jim Connolly

On Twitter Mike's personal account http://twitter.com/arrington has a mere 5 thousand followers, it is the TC account with 680 thousand, whilst on FF he had his personal twitter as well as TC feeding in. See the google cache here: http://209.85.229.132/search... - Jack

The Tech News Blog: engagement levels on Twitter are interesting, agreed. I've seen the bot behavior too. Twitter's team seems unconcerned. Ryo: it's bullshit to say you were destroyed by TechCrunch. If anything getting Arrington to say negative things about you focuses the world's attention on you and people (especially his competitors) rush to check out whether or not he's correct. If he wasn't right, that guy would have gained even more followers. - Robert Scoble

Jack: the TC account used to be Mike's personal Twitter account before that account got added to the recommended follower list. Now he's used that just to stream TC links. He used to have conversations with lots of us on Twitter in the old days using that account. - Robert Scoble

It's ironic, though, that getting half a million people to follow you means you can't even get 10,000 people to follow your other account. The engagement isn't there. Getting engagement is much more difficult than most people understand. - Robert Scoble

Ryo, have you ever considered that the example you've just quoted probably didn't have a great product to begin with, or may have had stuff that really needed more work? If the product's good, no blogger with influence would really affect things. But if he points out a potential product needs major work or is complete crap, go get the product right and stop blaming messengers like Arrington. - George Hall (Australia)

George: exactly right. I totally bashed Amazon's first Kindle. it still sold very well because it did have real value (it just was designed poorly). The Amazon team was never as nice to me after that, but I know people who bought it after watching my review and deciding I was wrong about the device, so in the end, I'm pretty sure I helped them out more than I hurt them. A great product withstands all criticism. - Robert Scoble

Exactly, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm going to have to take issue with you there Robert. Respected reviewers CAN affect the success of a product. That's why we must demand that they review ethically and thoughtfully. - invariant - farewell FF

Ryo, sounds like you didn't hear the aftermath gillmor gang session on saturday http://ia311238.us.archive.org/3... - Chris Heath

Don't forget about the first part: http://www.archive.org/downloa... Mike spoke very kindly about Rajeev Motwani before the shouting began. - Jack

Friendfeed is better than Twitter, yet he wants to stay with Twitter, COZ its driving traffic to his blog and nothing else - Michael_techie

invariant: we can have some impact, yes, but if only one person is picking on something and is picking on something wrongly it can often have the opposite effect. A good product WILL stand up to Mike Arrington or anyone else for that matter. - Robert Scoble

well what he said after in the second session was serious too - and he claims the pre stuff was in jest and misunderstood - Chris Heath

Chris: he didn't quite say "in jest" but that he was trying to point out that Palm sends review units to those who have given Palm a good set of PR over the last few months. He might actually have a point there but that point was lost both because Arrington started pushing Leo's buttons and because Leo responded to that with an outburst that I haven't seen Leo do ever (and I've been following Leo since the mid 1990s). - Robert Scoble

right robert... but the 'what are you gonna do about it?' he claims was in jest - Chris Heath

Chris: yeah. That's just Mike being Mike. He does the same thing with me to try to push my buttons. Sometimes he succeeds with me too. ;-) - Robert Scoble

and robert... one question about the PR stuff... isn't it fully in Palm's rights and best interests to give out review units as they see fit? isn't that the point of PR? to get the review units out to those you think will give the best reviews? - Chris Heath

Robert, I don't know about that. Something from a company like Amazon, sure. They have the muscle to keep it going. But something from a startup running on a shoestring? A bad review from the right person could kill it. Look at what Engadget/Gizmodo (I can't remember which) did to the Folio - a product that was a netbook a year or so before the Eee PC. - invariant - farewell FF

Chris: yes. And that's why the practice is a little dirty. - Robert Scoble

but isn't that to be expected as core part of what PR is? - Chris Heath

invariant: any company that has all of its hopes hinged on one review is a company that's setup to fail. When I bring out a product I'll assume I'm going to get bad reviews. In fact, that's what I'm expecting with building43. If someone bashes it it won't stop me. I'll learn from it and move on and make it better. - Robert Scoble

Yeah, but the Folio wasn't quite the EEEPC...it was just an oversized Palm Pilot. Not even with an adequate OS for the size of the thing. - George Hall (Australia)

kind of like the old saying don't hate the player, hate the game? - Chris Heath

Chris: I have come to hate a lot of what PR does. The good ones are very helpful and fair to all comers. - Robert Scoble

But the bad ones... - Robert Scoble

right robert, and if what you're selling is truly good then the product/service doesn't need PR then right? - Chris Heath

George: regarding the Folio: exactly. Bad products can't overcome bad reviews. - Robert Scoble

I still think if a review kills anything, the product wasn't right to begin with. And I know that from my cartooning experience over twenty years ago. Critics are harshest when something's clearly crap. You just can't afford to be precious about a creation that's crap. You take the criticism the proper way and go do a better product. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why. - George Hall (Australia)

Chris: if something really is great PR should only need to facilitate the press seeing it, finding that out, and holding it. I loved the Palm Pre as soon as I saw it on screen and nothing has changed my mind about that since. No PR person needed to give me one. Although the fact that they did made it easier to form an even deeper opinion that it's great. - Robert Scoble

Yikes! - Fred Davis

George: remember, I've been at the harsh end of Arrington's stick. You should go read what he said about PodTech. What he said stung and hurt but it was right and the company wasn't going in a good direction. Arrington just helped everyone's attention focus on that. Could we have pulled it out without that attention? Maybe, but I doubt it in hind site. - Robert Scoble

Palm still need to do something about the sharp edges, though - George Hall (Australia)

night everyone... cy'all later - Chris Heath

Are you saying it's impossible for a great product to fail due to negative publicity? Color me incredulous. - invariant - farewell FF

George: I'm playing with a Pre right now and I don't think the edges are overly sharp. If they did something about them it would pronounce the gaps where the phone slides together. - Robert Scoble

invariant: name a great product that failed due to negative publicity and let's talk. - Robert Scoble

Sometimes even if an idea is ours, it might need work...or it might be crap. Sometimes it's good someone points that out to us. I don't mind a good critic. They're great for getting your idea more focused and improved. - George Hall (Australia)

Robert: was watching a review that showed the edges when opened are sharp enough to cut cheese. - George Hall (Australia)

George: must be really soft cheese. Geesh. - Robert Scoble

Lol - George Hall (Australia)

I mean, can't we all just get along? But then again, I do remember learning as a journalist that controversy sells... even if it does come at a price... - Fred Davis

Exactly, Fred. Heck, a bit of negative publicity actually sells more things... - George Hall (Australia)

George: even there, though, if I read that review that the Palm Pre had sharp edges, all it would make me do is go and hold one and see if they bugged me. If they did, I'd get an iPhone or a Blackberry. If not, well, sold! If that's the worst thing they can say about the Palm Pre, it's actually doing pretty damn well! On the other hand, now I'm going down to the kitchen to see if mine will cut cheese. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

LOL. Palm Pre as cheese knife...now there's a hitherto-unknown use for it. - George Hall (Australia)

Heck,most of us here WANT to see the Palm Pre do well...and Palm themselves. But we'd all like to hope they do listen when some of us do point out where it needs a fine-tune. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm Brie? - Mel Buckpitt

Hmmm....Ryo...you can put NO to most of your questions. I just dislike when someone makes a personal attack on a guy for doing his job. Or when he's blamed for some person's misperception of how much influence he has over whether a product sells or not. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: interesting that you use the same tactics that Arrington used with Leo. That's sorta weird. - Robert Scoble

I still maintain that the Folio was one of those products. It was a netbook before we even knew what to call them, and it was killed before it was even released by a web site that couldn't imagine the utility of a small, low cost portable. It may have had flaws, but so did the first Eee PC. Who knows what it could have become? - invariant - farewell FF

Yeah, Robert, but we at least knew where Arrington was coming from. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: the eeepc had a linux/unix operating system with a fair amount of useability. The Folio was, to all intents and purposes, just a larger Palm. Huge difference. And at the time it was brought out, Palm OS was a bit limited. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: well, maybe they shouldn't have shown it to Engadget first. There's lots of others who would have been able to push it along. But some products are simply before their times. Folio didn't excite me and I saw it. I agree with George. Failed OS. Heck, even Palm has given up on that OS. - Robert Scoble

That's not true George. It was based on a linux os just like the Eee. - invariant - farewell FF

Ryo, your comments on Arrington have been accusing him of being a troll. To me, that's treating Arrington a little too personal. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I read all comments and seems to me you're doing the same thing as Arrington. - Robert Scoble

I agree that spiteful comments are not the best way, but at the same time, Mike Arrington really shouldn't have jumped on such a bandwagon. At any rate, I hope that things douse soon!! - Guru Panguji

Actually, Ryo, your comments about Arrington sound very hateful. - George Hall (Australia)

Hmmm...Ryo...pick a number and join the queue. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo, I've been threatened by experts on occasion. I note you don't seem to have any Facebook. Interesting ommision from your list of web/social media concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

You could defend anything the same way. "Well, it got bad reviews because it was a bad product." But to say that reviews have no effect on the success of a product is mind-boggling to me. Why is there an entire industry based on reviewing products if those reviews have no impact on the product's success? - invariant - farewell FF

Good products improve after a bad review. - George Hall (Australia)

George - Or maybe the company's backers lose faith and pull their funding, drowning the baby before it has a chance to grow up. - invariant - farewell FF

if the backers do that, then they don't think the product's worth going with. Whereas a good product won't lose backers. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: name one great product that was kept down by a bad review. Almost every great product has gotten a bad review. - Robert Scoble

Anyway, I'm outta here. Ryo: you can have the last word. It seems you're just pushing my buttons and I have an Apple thread to attend to. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

George, you have a very altruistic view of business. Products get killed all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are. We'd all be playing games on the Sega Dreamcast II if that weren't the case. - invariant - farewell FF

Admittedly, invariant. Guess I'm still a fan of honest business. - George Hall (Australia)

I seem to remember someone making a mint out of a crap operating system... - George Hall (Australia)

...but by the same token, over the long term, a great product fights back. - George Hall (Australia)

Well take the Dreamcast for example: If Sega would have had more capital they could have kept that business going and potentially been successful, but they just ran out of money. Had nothing to do with the product itself, it had more to do with the business model (i.e. losing money on every console sold). - invariant - farewell FF

And also because another business (Electronic Arts) decided not to support it. - invariant - farewell FF

I think, Invariant, you've pointed out it has less to do with reviews. Bad product OR bad business model. Too easy to fail. Less to do with the review or the reviewer. - George Hall (Australia)

And still no reason to have personal gripes against the reviewer - George Hall (Australia)

George, absolutely. The Dreamcast example was one of a good product that failed, not because of reviews but because of other outside factors. The point is that the good guys do not always win. Reviewers should respect their power and be ethical when they review a product. That's my only point. - invariant - farewell FF

It's just trying to make someone like Arrington a scapegoat for a product - George Hall (Australia)

's troubles. - George Hall (Australia)

Whoa, that's not what I was trying to do at all. - invariant - farewell FF

Of course, a product maker should always expect a review may not always go the way they want... - George Hall (Australia)

Regardless of anything Mike's done in the past to piss people off, I felt bad when I read the update on his post. It's really seemed like he was shook up from the comments he received. Considering the nature of them, I can't blame him. This might seem trivial, but it’s obvious that he was worried or he would have taken the time to correct the punctuation in his update. From my perspective, he’s comes across like an extremely sensitive guy, who has a few issues to deal with, just like the rest of us. - Michael Fidler

I'm just pointing out that reviewers DO have power, and that power can both positively impact or negatively impact the success of a product. As a maker of video games I have direct experience with that. - invariant - farewell FF

I doubt he will do it, but he needs to make more time for himself. If he does, I’m sure he would be a lot less abrasive and a lot happier too. You work equally hard Robert, but you love what you do, and it shows. Does Mike love what he’s does, or is it just work for him now? - Michael Fidler

I don't think Arrington expected to see people behave with such bile and vehemence over such an issue. And of course that would upset him. And it upsets Robert, too, because Robert is still his friend, even if he and Mike occasionally have an intellectual disagreement. - George Hall (Australia)

To be clear I have NO opinion on Mike or the work he does. I assume he's an ethical reviewer and I haven't heard otherwise. I just wanted to address Robert's notion that a good product will succeed despite reviews. I simply do not believe that's true 100% of the time. - invariant - farewell FF

Heck, a few weeks back, Arrington and Techcrunch were the only ones who could tell me why Friendfeed was down for a few hours. Google couldn't. Not many other tech blogs could either. And I was glad he helped us stay informed on that situation. - George Hall (Australia)

I feel like a heel for not understanding the true nature of this thread before jumping in. Let me say this in response to the REAL discussion in this thread: people should be ashamed for attacking Mike over something that was obviously a misunderstanding between himself and Leo. I hope Mike shrugs this off and continues to do just what he does now. - invariant - farewell FF

I can't believe the Gillmor gang section is gone. A year's worth of podcasts, just gone. ? WTF? - Karoli from BuddyFeed

Gillmor Gang is back on itunes! http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... - Jack

Jack, glad to see it on iTunes. looks like NewsGang live is toast. I am so bummed. I'm going to bed. :( - Karoli

Or search "Gillmor Gang" in itunes and it's the one marked "Explicit" - Jack

It looks like some of the latest Gillmor Gangs, the ones that were only released live, are now available on iTunes. - Diego Barros 

Looking forward to listening to these. - Diego Barros 

Me too, not sure why the new feed though. The old feed is just sitting there doing nothing. - Matt Thompson

Matt, maybe the new feed's because the audio files (and feed) were living on TechCrunch's servers? Since gillmorgang.techcrunch.com is also gone? Not sure. - Diego Barros 

Leo is the holy Grail of tech for generations, to imply that he is even remotely dishonest is the same as calling all his fans dishonest and stupid, I admit I stopped following Techcrunch because of this incident, but I am not hating on Mike, I understand the jealous inner child in him made him say what he did, we all say bad things and a lynch mob is a little too far in this case. - URLREVIEWS

I think Leo was feeling bad enough for accepting a test unit and Mike's words just sent him over the edge, Leo is honest all the way, anyone who listen to his techguy show knows that, the guy even suggest free alternatives to some of his sponsors, how fan dedicated is that? Leo is Legend. - URLREVIEWS

It all comes down to comments, doesn't it? 1. Long comment threads on Friendfeed are a nightmare to read, especially on a handheld. Can somebody add a threading facility? 2. Anonymous on the internet needs to end. http://twittercism.com/anonymi... It's a poison, and it's the real story behind the Arrington/Laporte spat. - Shéa Bennett

I think the comments went way overboard in their criticism of Arrington. The angle he was approaching his questioning from (that Palm were withholding review units) was legit. Just a shame that there was a misunderstanding on Leos part to interpret it as a question of his integrity. - Jamie

The world is a hurting place and we find it much easier to attack others out of our own pain and dysfunction. Both people were sincere in their position, this example shows you how easy it is to be offended on both sides of the argument just by simply having a different perspective. It does appear Mike was questioning Leo's integrity even though the question was sincere in light of the story Mike was working on. I think we can move on and focus on more important issues. - Owen Greaves

Bloggers must go where the conversation is. TechCrunch is not real time. He'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

Maybe he will, maybe he won't but if he does, there's certainly no reason for anyone to smug and high horsey about it. We were the asshole on this matter, not him - and a strategic withdrawal from the forum was certainly warranted on his part temporary or permanent. - Matthew DeVries

Garin: I think Mike will come to regret deleting his account, just like Leo came to regret deleting his Twitter account. - Robert Scoble

He can always open a new one. - Amit Morson

Matthew: if I ever get to that point where I get tired of dealing with everyone here, I'll just go private. That way if I want to jump back in at a future date I'll still have my account here. I think Mike made a mistake in just deleting his account. Amit: he could, but someone already took the techcrunch URL. For a business to give that up seems to be not smart, but that's just me. - Robert Scoble

A few weeks ago I almost deleted my Twitter account and I'm glad I didn't for just that reason. - Robert Scoble

Robert - I am glad you didn't delete your twitter account ;) Just keep watering the FF garden instead ! - Susan Beebe

Robert - I'm not saying I condone his decision/action, just that I understand it. I'm sure if he were interested in reactivating/undeleting comments Paul et al would figure out a way to make it happen for him. Just that a barrier to his return is the potential for "told you you'd be back" smugness which is entirely unwarranted, and honestly prickish. - Matthew DeVries

Robert, he doesn't have to deal with everyone. There is no need to respond to each and every bad comment made at him. - Amit Morson

Robert: Mike may have lost 600 comments on TechCrunch but this thread already has 760 comments which makes it #1 on best of week, and we're all talking about TechCrunch. I'm impressed. Mike has already won from this move. - Garin Kilpatrick

Garin, considering his loses and TechCrunch scale, I can't see that as a win. - Amit Morson

Arrington has never liked FF, anyway. And what has being here done for him or Techcrunch? Has it increased his brand awareness, made him more money, got him laid? How can it be a loss when it's never been a gain? - Dawn

Amit: The comments Mike lost were stale, this is fresh and undoubtedly building awareness about Mike and TC. The only way Mike has lost is by dropping friendfeed, but at least he has done so in style. Even here he has not lost because as I said before: he'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

He lost his brand name, though I'm sure he can claim it back with FF. - Amit Morson

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of FF. - Garin Kilpatrick

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of <strike>FF</strike> all that he surveys. --FTFY Garin - Matthew DeVries

Abuse? I thought these tools were available to use however we wish. I didn't realize there are FF Nazis demanding that their use is the only legitimate use. - Dawn

Dammit Dawn...... - Matthew DeVries

lol Thanks Matthew! - Garin Kilpatrick

Can you say BUTTHURT? - Rustic Thoughts

Glad you waited for 771 comments and 4 days of thoughtful deliberation to bring us that nugget of well thought out brilliance Rustic. The staggering intellectual rigor of your timely, measured, and informed and above all unique point truly brings the discussion to a level that rivals that of the lycium or the Algonquin round table. - Matthew DeVries

Thats a lot of big words for so early in the morning. - Rustic Thoughts

"I didn't realize there are FF Nazi's demanding that their use is the only legitimate use" -- FINALLY... Jeez... I've been sitting here waiting patiently for Godwin's Law to kick it. It's been almost 48hrs since all this happened... must be a new record. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm giving this thread a *facepalm* award for the multiple site/acct deletions (TC/FF & GG/TC), over-the-top comments, and of course Mr. "BUTTHURT" and use of the term "FF Nazi" http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa... - Richard ¿digame? Walker

What goes around comes around. Arrington is getting what he's been asking for, for a long time. - Chris Luckhardt

Totally tangential, but using BuddyFriend to read a thread with 771 comments really isn't a nice experience :) - Ian Betteridge from BuddyFeed

Actually a better idea would have been to make his account private - Abhishek

I can't find the Gillmor Gang section of TechCrunch... could that be removed too? (hopefully just temporarily) - John Wright

John: Yes, it's gone at the moment. - Ken Sheppardson

There's an unofficial Gillmor Gang podcast on itunes here: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... or the RSS here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

This is a tough situation. We all have reached the end of our patience at least once with someone that takes an effort to get along with, especially if we're exhausted by it. Some people are clueless about their impact on others. I've said things in those situations that I meant, but wished I had taken a higher road and said in a better way because it actually makes everything more stressful. - Keith Barrett

Keith: It wasn't just one or two people it was like 20+ people who didn't even know the full story and jumped on the band-wagon. Those 20+ people also didn't bother to read the "Ouch" post on Techcrunch or watch the 2nd Gillmor Gang - infact they probably didn't even watch the first one - they probably just saw the 1minute clip on Youtube. - Nicholas James

What a shame. What a shame this is still a mob. I've purposefully ignored this whole skirmish, having seen this coming a few weeks ago when the GG went to hell for an evening, and then another wee when Mike hung up and bailed on the show. It is a shame that Mike felt it necessary to delete his friendfeed account. It's also a shame that Mike seems to egg (mob)people on to the point of... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

invariant: the impact reviewers have is strongest on their readers, and their own reliability. if an author does not evaluate products honestly it will cause their audience, which may only be a small fraction of the total market, to make more poorly informed decisions and thereby undermines the value of their writing. - Mike Chelen

Robert - Thanks for starting this thread. The calm voices and mostly sensitive nature of the comments have helped me begin to heal. I am emerging from this very trying weekend a changed person, trampled by a crowd wearing combat boots. I now know how scary mobs are. - Tina Chase Gillmor

Tina: I once was in a real mob after a San Francisco 49er Super Bowl victory (I drove through it) and I've never been so terrified. It's interesting that my friend who told me off for pushing a mob a couple of years ago has been quiet with this mob. Ahh, I love studying how people work. Keep it up, let's get back in the saddle, what Steve, Mike, and you are doing is interesting. That's why the mob formed in the first place so don't forget that. - Robert Scoble

*sigh* mobs suck - Susan Beebe

If you have a mob that theoretically can be pushed at someone, you should be judged separately. It's like being a pro karate fighter - treated in court like a weapon. - Kirill Bolgarov

Oh, by the way. techcrunch sucks and so does mashable. of course it's my personal opinion, but they have gone too far in the battles over traffic and pageviews. their destination is a tabloid with a few to no real value. the only reason i could click on a ЕС link was a good discussion onver it on friendfeed. so, they completely lost at least one reader because of their CEO's personal stuff. that's not that professional i guess - Kirill Bolgarov

FriendFeed Feedback: Flavio

In my Advanced Twitter Settings, even if I selected "Post my FriendFeed entries on Twitter by default" and checked FriendFeed among services to post, entries are not posted if I forget to check the Cc box in the bookmarklet. Is it a bug? Why having it among services to post if it's not posted?

May 21 - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, Kohl S Gill and Thomas Power liked this

afaik that setting only affects the entries without a Cc box. - Doğaç Yavuz

8 more comments

the setting affects the bookmarklet checkbox default, it will be overridden if changed manually - Mike Chelen

so why doesn't it post? - Flavio

I think the character number has to be under the Twitter limit. Mine have posted if this is the case. On 22 May 2009, at 7:51 AM, flapic wrote: - Kohl S Gill from email

No it's not a bug, try checking "Check 'Cc Twitter' box by default" and then you wont have to remember - DarknessFalls

That is checked too, but doesn't appear checked on the bookmarklet or in the post box and have to do it manually everytime. - Flavio

flapic: what browser / os? sounds like some issue with the bookmarklet - Mike Chelen

tried with both Firefox and Chrome on Vista, but it's not only with the bookmarklet, also with posts made directly on the feed page. - Flavio

that's strange, so when you start a new post in your home feed, is the cc: twitter box properly checked by default? assuming firefox 3, any other addons that might be affecting it? - Mike Chelen

tried also with FF but mainly with Chrome (now updated to v.3). Checkbox now appears checked, but some applications still don't forward even if they are supposed to. - Flavio

Rocky Barbanica

My cousin Colleen died today - liver cancer - non drinker - way bummed out

June 7 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Thunderwing liked this

so sorry - Erin @queenofspain

10 more comments

My condolences, Rocky. - Ayşe E.

I'm sorry for your loss. - joey

Sorry to hear that Rocky. And just on our biggest week ever. - Robert Scoble

my condolences, rocky - imabonehead

Very sorry Rocman, hard to understand why these things happen. - JimmyJet

I'd also like to offer my condolences - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

You have my prayers and my condolences. - Thunderwing from twhirl

Condolences. Sorry to hear about your cousin Colleen. - Loren Heiny

Mr Barbanica Im so sorry this happened.Im a complete stranger I know but when I read this my heart goes out to you and the family. - earl wallace

Awww, that's so sad :( - DarknessFalls

I am sorry to hear that. - Nation Hahn

DarknessFalls

Hummer - Mahalo - http://www.mahalo.com/hummer

June 5 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

Great Hummer links - DarknessFalls

Kevin Rose

Downloading: Hulu Desktop http://www.hulu.com/labs...

May 28 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Fee501st and Gary Gannon liked this

Already tried it, it was fine, website is better - DarknessFalls

Jason Calacanis

Crushed with M2 launch. Got 6 minutes at the NY Tech Meetup to show Mahalo 2.0, sooo excited to face the challenge! thanks for opp @heif

May 28 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

When can the rest of us expect M2? - DarknessFalls

mashable

Reading up on Google Wave. Looks incredibly cool: http://mashable.com/2009...

May 28 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Luis Enrique León, Jeunelle Foster, Dan and Head Ov Metal liked this

Google Wave looks like a cheap Gmail, Google Talk mashup - DarknessFalls

Dan Hsiao

Pineapple whip float!

May 25 - Comment - Like - Share

Rebecca Sun, Christopher Chung, niniane and 17 other people liked this

Want! - April Buchheit

5 more comments

I'm so in the mood for ice cream - Manuela

Pineapple? Sounds yummy. - DarknessFalls

Where is that from? - Violet Mae Lim

It's from the Tikki Juice Bar at Disneyland (http://disneyland.disney.go.com/disneyl...). I think you can also get it at the Dole Plantation in Honolulu. :) - Dan Hsiao

lucky!!! - Emily

thanks for the recommendation, mei :) - Dan Hsiao

TV Guide

Twitter TV show is in development: http://www.tvguide.com/News.... Would you watch?

May 26 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

No it's not, check out the official response from Twitter: http://blog.twitter.com/2009... - DarknessFalls

One might wonder if that quick official response was due to negativity from some of the high profile Tweeters - TV Guide

Louis Gray

As A Happy iPhone User, I Have Zero Interest In A Palm Pre - http://www.webomatica.com/wordpre...

May 21 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Rowley, Sardar Mohkim Khan, Johnny and 44 other people liked this

Thinking the same thing the other day - so many apps already out for iPhone that the Pre will have to catch up to. - Wayne Schulz

29 more comments

I'm happy with the iPhone, but I have some interest in the Pre. If it lives up to the hype, it will only force Apple to make their product better. - Jed

"or Steve Jobs’ salary divided by zero which is still zero." fail @ math - Angus Burton

Another happy iPhone owner and ex Sprint customer here. Couldn't agree more. - Marty McPadden from BuddyFeed

I'm interested in it, but feel the app ecosystem on the iPhone has created a powerful lockin based on software - something unprecedented in the mobilespace. Next up is hardware lockin with the APIs for exposing the dock connector and Bluetooth to accessories. It's more than just a phone. - Jamie

I feel the same way. Had they come to market around the same time iPhone did, maybe I would feel different. But let's face it, it's a 'hopeful' me-too rip-off product minus the payoff. - Dean Kakridas

Competition makes smart phones better,I'd love to see some real iPhone competitors. - Steve Chou

Louis with my smartphone I can play music through my Bluetooth stereo headphones, run my turn-by-turn navigation, receive a call and open a spreadsheet, all at the same time. - MVB (Grinch of FF)

As an unhappy Razr owner, I have a lot of interest in a Palm Pre. I would be equally happy with an iPhone if AT&T's service wasnt so poor in my area. - Ron Wening

I do. AT&T has been sucking ass in my area lately. The Palm Pre's processor, development using HTML/Javascript/CSS, and multitasking with cards intrigues me. My current 1st gen iPhone is broke. My contract ends in July. That said, it's hard to deny the App Store and the option of using future devices by swapping out the SIM card. Most likely, I'll grab the Pre on launch day, try it out... more... - Rodfather

happy iphone user and no interest in pre. - Kiran Patchigolla

I've been carrier free for three months --- waiting for the Pre and at the same time wondering out loud if I should jump the gun and get an iPhone. The wait is almost over, we'll soon have reviews of both the new iPhone and Pre. I'm hoping the Pre is the winner. - Mark Evans

I can't help but have interest in the Pre.. I'm a gadget lover - Bwana ☠

They better send me one to review or I'll go on a hunger strike - Bwana ☠

For 3 hours - Bwana ☠

I also have no interest in the Pre. I was with Sprint and they have horrible Customer Service. They even charged me $750 early term fee that I happily paid when switching to AT&T which has better coverage and far superior customer service. - Corey Harris

Not zero interest, any new phone would have to signifigantly better to be worth the hassle of changing. - Robert Hafer

As a happy S60 user, I have zero interest in iPhone or Pre. - dthree

Corey, I found AT&T's customer service to be horrible. That, plus the fact that I despise iTunes, made an Android-running handset with T-Mobile an easy decision. - Christopher A Carr

My 15-yr old daughter has a Palm Centro and loves it. It works for me, too, because she isn't at a point where she needs all the iPhone apps. However, by the time her next upgrade comes, the Pre may be an option she decides to take... - Karoli

WebOS's elegant app switching is certainly intriguing. - Christopher A Carr

Everyone has zero interest in the Pre - DarknessFalls

I am also not interested in the Palm Pre, for the Pre gives me that feeling that the App store for it will be severely lacking, like the Android Market. The iPhone is all that I need, but the plans are outrageous in Canada, 60 dollars a month just for 500MB of data. - Zachary TG

the CDMA Pre will probably have the best browser experience due to its great network speed, but you can't take it overseas so that's a big limitation - Brian Hendrickson

Zachary, the Android Market isn't all *that* lacking at this point... - Christopher A Carr

really? We're criticizing an app store for a device that hasn't even launched yet because it will be lacking? - Richard Lawler

As a happy Android User I have ZERO interest in any other type phone, im happy to see android keep evolving ;) - Kyle Weller

I'm happy to see people comment that use Android, Nokia and etc. instead of just Apple fan boys. As a Blackberry user (on Sprint) I'm looking forward to the news about the Pre. I won't switch to it because I don't have the patience anymore to be an early adopter. Competition will bring out the best in the smart phone market. I really enjoy my Blackberry and it would take some soul searching for me to use anything else. - Vaughn

I'm interested just because the AT&T Service is HORRIBLE in my area. (Chicago) My friend who works for AT&T says the Chicago tower network is at or near capacity. Dropped calls, lots of dead zones. I'm looking for a decent competitor so I can move away. I love the iPhone to death. But none of the features it has are as necessary to me as the ability to make a phone call. I can live... more... - Jeff Smith

No interest in a Palm Pre - Johnny

Very happy with my iphone, it would take a lot for me to change to anything else, Don't think the Pre has what it takes! At&t service has been good in my area, maybe due to the fact I live in SD, I don't know. I have only had 1 of my calls dropped and that was on a train ride through hilly terrain. - Brian

Leo Laporte

Question for you all. I have a trademark for TWiT® - first used in May 2005, trademark applied for May 2006 and registered March 2007. The trademark is in "Entertainment in the nature of visual and audio performances, and musical, variety, news and comedy shows." http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin...

May 25 - Comment - Like - Share

Dobromir Hadzhiev, Richard Thomson, Dakota O'Neill and 186 other people liked this

Up until now there's been no conflict with Twitter itself because the brands were in different arenas. (We have, however, sent out cease and desist letters to companies using "twit" in their name and doing audio or video). But now Twitter is doing a TV show. The confusion between TWiT and Twitter is mounting. What do I do? Defend my mark? Or let my brand be swallowed by the big guy (even though we were first by several years)? I need your advice. What does the community think? - Leo Laporte

267 more comments

Defend your trademark, 99% of people will totally understand, you have to do it, or you'll loose it! - Chris Lloyd

Defend it. People that watch Twit Tv will also defend it. - Jason Rundell

Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Does TWIT still stand up as an accurate brand for all the new stuff you are doing with TWIT Live? Might be time to find a new visual/brand identity. - BryanSchuetz

At the SF MusicTech conference a lawyer called "tweets" "twits" repeatedly. Let's just say I think you should defend your mark and let TV chew up and spit out twitter. - Richard ¿digame? Walker

I don't see how the brand of Twitter infringes on your trademark. Plus trademarks are an outdated ideal. You need to market and promote your brand and the people will come. - Bob Blunk

Bryan: The TWiT name carries alot of weight in tech circles, it will take alot of money/time/effort to make a completely new name for something that will probably outlast twitter anyway - Chris Lloyd

Incidentally, Twitter just got their trademark approved May 11, 2009 in the following "Telecommunication services, namely, providing online and telecommunication facilities for real-time interaction between and among users of computers, mobile and handheld computers, and wired and wireless communication devices; enabling individuals to send and receive messages via email, instant... more... - Leo Laporte

There is nothing ideal about any aspect of IP law. - Richard ¿digame? Walker

Chris: I think Leo's name carries more weight than TWIT and (for me at least) he IS TWIT so I don't see it as quite such a big deal. - BryanSchuetz

Of course, there's a larger long-term problem because of the way that Twitter has weakened _your_ brand. It might be less expensive (and a better use of your time) to rebrand TWiT into something that strengthens your brand and moves it away from Twitter; avoiding any future problems (and there will be future problems). You can't fight Oprah. - Professor Messer

I guess Leo started a shit-storm here...The question goes far beyond the argument of Twitter vs. TWIT. It begs the question of how do Brands defend their government protected trademarks in a time when trademarks are failing to adequately describe what a company does. Do we need a trademark to know that Leo creates awesome podcasts and streams realtime shows via the internet? Plus, how could a trademark impart this knowledge to newcomers? - Bob Blunk

Leo - your brand, as most evidenced by your show and content is awesome - for a small group of peeps who have had a chance to discover it and enjoy. I'd use the overlap in marques to leverage Twitter in some type of promotional / service partnership, whilst still retaining your brand and the equity you've built. Don't fight em, join em, at least tactically. - Thom Kennon

Never give in to the big guy! - Brian Harper

I'm with the majority, defend your trademark and your legacy. - jcunwired

Defend it Leo. You built the brand and they need to honor that. - Robert

I always thought calling the network the same name as a show on the network was wierd. But it's a recognized brand, and I wouldn't give in. Send some mails to all the twitvid.io's out there. - Anton Tanderup

Is the BIG guy really that Big? Plus, with the way busines is changing one thing seems to remain the same...protectionism, let's sue someone it's easier. I'm suggesting your desicion is easy here Leo but in light of the landscape changing do you really have a chance? The other question to ponder is this, Twitter is the hot thing now but will it be 5 years from now and will it be true... more... - Owen Greaves

speaking from a british point of view a twit is someone who is a little silly or stupid. I think your podcast can stand up against the everising onslaught of twitter. Why not rise above all this discussion and say what you are This week in technology, a fantastic poscast full of wit and essential information for gadget freaks such as myself. Let the owners of twitter gabble on, in my book baby creatures twitter and you are certainly no TWIT. - Chris Jennings

@ Professor Messer 'You can't fight Oprah' is not totally correct. You can FIGHT her, can you win? Maybe. I think, offline, Leo VS Oprah would go several rounds. Tweetfight says otherwise. - Jason Rundell

Defend it Leo. What's the use in having a trademark if others can infringe upon it. - TechListReport

Sorry to say, my girlfriend recently yelled at my for watching 'Twitter' when I was really watching TWiT live. Confusion does exist for people who don't fully understand what each service is. - Wo

The good thing about trademark law is that it's well established and legally documented. The problem with trademark law is that it's well established and legally documented. You need a brand to create awareness, and you need the trademark to protect your established brand. This one is sticky because TWiT is well established but it's going to be an expensive brand to protect. Twitter's... more... - Professor Messer

@Jason Rundell, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a cage match between Leo and Oprah (who wouldn't?). But it'll cost a lot of time and money. Sometimes it's better to be smarter than the legal system. - Professor Messer

I'm not sure I fully understand where the perceived trademark issue is. The names are similar, but clearly different. I don't know that Twitter is making any efforts or attempts to infringe on the TWiT brand, particularly in the area specified ""Entertainment in the nature of visual and audio performances, and musical, variety, news and comedy shows." I agree and understand the brand... more... - Ken Camp

The fact is, the brand that really matters here is not TWiT, but Leo Laporte. I came to TWiT because of you, Leo, not because of the name. That being said, I'll stand behind whatever decision you make. - Darren Landrum

Oh, and I think this is just the opportunity we need to resubscribe our iTunes and take over the top 10 lists. :) - Professor Messer

Can I ask - did TWiT exist before Twitter? Or did Twitter exist first? And - is your name TWiT based on Twitter, at all? - Chris Loft

Chris Loft: TWiT predates Twitter and comes from This week in tech... - Chris Lloyd

I think it's only right to defend your trademark Leo. You were there way before Twitter and just because they have gained significantly increased attention and media coverage, doesn't mean you have to lay down and submit to Twitter. I would defend your mark vigorously if I were you. You've worked hard to build your brand. - Marty McPadden

Chris Loft proves that there is confusion between the two. - Anton Tanderup

Leo - TWit is an incredible brand and network of invaluable podcasts - you simply have to defend it - Robert Davies

Fight for it. When they try to get additional financing make your move. Asserting your trademark will cause them to settle or buy you out when they go public. - Alan Morris

I think that once you see the Twitter television show, you'll probably want to distance yourself as far away as possible. - Professor Messer

Defend your trademark. I get more intellectual engagement from the TWiT network of shows than I do from most of my Twitter community. - Eric Geller

Use whatever legal tools you have available to defend your brand, especially if Twitter is talking about crossing into audio/video. You have a strong product, and Twitter is creating brand confusion in the market. A hard line needs to be drawn between your product and theirs, and it's clear that they are not going to keep a respectful distance with TWiT. - Jason Miller

You have to rise above the emotion and make a business decision. How much will it cost you to defend versus how much will you gain? Simple cost/benefit. My guess is that this fight will cause you to lose focus on your work, be a financial hardship as you go up against a company with VC backing, and all for the "possibility" that you will win and maybe get some compensation from Twitter.... more... - Tom Sheppard

I thought twitvid.com was the new video netcasts Leo has been talking about, boy was I surprised! - Daniel Rinaman

It has to be defended.Giving up and letting another company take your brand, no matter how big the company or personal feelings toward the owner, can not be an option. You built your brand and should defend it. - David Z

Defend it Leo! - Gunny doesn't side-hug™

Don't think you have much choice do you. You either protect it or lose it. If you don't at some point they will try the other way. - nef 919 from Nambu

You need to defend it Leo. You had the trademark first. - imperator3733

How about a name like LeoCast... No confusion there. - Rustic Thoughts

Agree don't let the big dog scare you..you have the law on your side - Randy Pollock

It's YOUR mark Leo and you have worked hard to make it as well-known as it is. Defend what's yours!! - Jim Connolly

Twitter will be virtually gone like Classmates and MySpace in a few years... Keep the name! - Rick Harvey

Leo: As others have said, you can initiate legal action, but I doubt you'd win. TWiT is based upon an acronym (This Week in Tech). Twitter is not an acronym, it's a word unto itself. Twitter doesn't use the term "twit" by itself; the word is always used fully (though some people snidely call Twitter users "twits"). Until you launched a microblogging area on your site, TWiT and Twitter... more... - Dwight Silverman

yes defend your trademark - Alfonso alatorre

Add to all this another twist. While TWiT is trademarked, twit is a common language word which can't be trademarked. That adds a dash of ambiguity to the whole issue. - Ken Camp

Twit came before Twitter I think you should defend it. it is dumb anyways Twit and Twitter is not even the same word, it would be like CocaCola suing Coconut because of COC - URLREVIEWS

Twitter is going to be a realty show based on stalking celebrities. It wont last more than one season. - Rustic Thoughts

I say let it roll. Your a 'big guy' in your own field, but Twitter is bigger. Play off of them. You could be bigger. Look at all the petty stuff that Microsoft did..and where did it get them? Bad Press. - Gene

To keep your trademark you must defend it if it's being violated. - CT Raider

I think Twitter has the brand and you don't right now. Maybe Twitter should buy it from you or you should collaborate with twitter to monetize and add your TWiT to twitter - Amit 'zyaada' Mittal

I certainly think you should defend your trademark, isn't that why you registered? - dcale1965

I checked Twitter's own site and it looks like Twitter launched March 1, 2006. TWiT was around well before then. Being in tech, I find it hard to believe they hadn't heard of him. It was a big podcast even then. I knew of TWiT well before Twitter. This may seem like a dumb issue to some, but a lot of people I recommended the podcast to now ask me if "it's a Twitter thing." - JeffreyVC

Ev told me that when they were considering names for Twitter they knew about TWiT and decided it didn't matter. In their defense, they had no idea what or how big Twitter was to become. We talked about trademark early on and both agreed there was no conflict _as long as we were in different spaces_. And therein lies the rub. - Leo Laporte

Apple Computer and Apple records recently went through this -- what was the outcome there? - Brian Sullivan

I thought it wasn't clear infringement when Twitter came out but now that there is Twit video the infringement is very clear. I would defend. - Robert Scoble

Lawyers are expensive. Legal fights are draining. You could spend the rest of your professional life fighting this battle. I don't know what's been going on in the back channel, and you probably shouldn't say publicly, but if you haven't tried approaching the Twitter board members privately, you might want to. Lay out the facts carefully, and if you're open to a settlement, say roughly... more... - Dave Winer

Legally, if you do not actively defend your trademark in every infringement then you will have difficulty *EVER* defending it. This isn't an anti-Twitter thing, just a simple business practice, Leo. - Kevin Donahue

"Clear Infringement". How exactly? It's a lose/lose for Twitter if they choose to encroach or even litigate. - Adi

Yeah but Leo added video later. And now Twitter is adding video. The real issue is that there is no clear separation between a radio/video network and a social microblogging site these days. And our trademarking system is so ridiculous that these kinds of conflicts go completely unnoticed all the time. - JeffreyVC

I'd say it's time to either re-brand TWiT or defend it. Deferring the decision and just living with the confusion and ambiguity is no longer an option. - Ken Sheppardson

Defend your trademark - Lars Clausen

Defend your brand Leo.The World Wide Fund for Nature took on the WWF and made them change their name to WWE. If they can do it, so can you. - Bryan Lee

The big problem with defending it... beyond the unfortunate fact that it's a drain on resources that could be better spent elsewhere... is it's not clear how you'd win. They're not going to change their name. They'll forever be Twitter. Is it sufficient to somehow "ban" them from ever doing anything in video? Enforcing that in perpetuity's would only raise your blood pressure. - Ken Sheppardson

I would take the emotion out of the equation -- find out what it would cost to defend and determine what it is worth to have exclusive/non-exclusive use (maybe some subjectivity here) and make the decision using that information. - Brian Sullivan

I say defend it but only so much as to bring more media attention to your brand... once you have the media's attention you can use that to change the brand identity if you so choose. Your followers myself included will stay fans no matter what you call your brand, but I think you have an opportunity to expand and use twitter as a means of gaining media attention! - Nathan McClain

If you don't do this you wont have a leg to stand on in the future when you need to really protect it. I can piss all over your trademark if you do not defend it. - David Lloyd

Leo: in a trademark fight what is the ROI? I am sure it will be very expensive and not sure you will get much in return but if you forced Twitter to change its name I am sure they would quickly settle with you. - Robert Scoble

I still think Twitter will be as irrelevant as MySpace in 2 years, but it's your brand to protect. - Mike Lewis

Ideal Outcome: A $$$ settlement sufficient to comfortably fund the rebranding of TWiT. - Ken Sheppardson

Robert makes a very good point. This could get messy and expensive, although it seems like those guys are VERY hard to work/interact with. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg

while bryan lee makes a good point, their battles took a long time to resolve. but, don't let this deter you. i would suggest you defend it. if anything, i see you have a strong case and whatever happens can be in your favour. it's possible twitter can concede in infringing in your trademark and may be even consider licensing through the course of the battle. but be very, very patient for any outcome to happen. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Dave: wrong. Leo is who got me on Twitter. His marks were more popular and predated Twitter's. - Robert Scoble

Leo got me into twitter too! - Jim Connolly

I think Leo has a good chance at wining his case since he did register the copyright first. Twitter is still not a money making business. They are living off of VC money. They will probably not have the funds to mount a case since their money will be tied up with keeping twitter afloat. Am I right? - Bryan Lee

Leo also got me on Twitter shortly after they went public. - Mike Bracco

regarding AMF, Inc. v. Sleekcraft Boats, 599 F.2d 341 (9th Cir. 1979) the battle was very different. one of the things found was that the company had an 'infinity' of other brands to choose. it's a very different situation in detail, although it looks comparable at face value. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Or just have them become a premium sponsor. There used to be so much twitter talk before, I think they really should be owing you some gratitude for the traffic. - Adi

As part of any settlement, you should demand Ev and Biz concede that individual Twitter entries are "Tweets", as embarrassed as they seem to be by that. They're net "twits" or "twitters"... they're "tweets". - Ken Sheppardson

i'm sure something can be negotiated with twitter. a lawsuit in this case would show you're just defending your trademark because they are encroaching in your territory. you're not taking them on what they are known to do, their core competency. rather, it's stepping into your own grounds. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

not doing anything on purpose may weaken your trademark. many court cases also end up not going through the entire ordeal. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Yep, I agree the day has come where it's either fight or flight. And I don't mean that quite the way it sounds. :-/ - Ken Sheppardson

Defend!!!! - Mark Williamson from BuddyFeed

I don't think you have much choice. Either you defend it or you lose it. - Pascal Sijen

dave johnson: true, there's always a degree of uncertainty; but that doesn't mean giving up in defending one's investment in a trademark. it can be argued pragmatically and it's to the point where leo must defend his territory upon which twitter is encroaching. aye. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

I'm not sure you can win, are we aren't even sure what they're going to call it yet. If it ends up being Twitter.TV you have no chance to beat them. - DarknessFalls

There is even a shortening service called: http://twitpwr.com/ - The brand must be defended. - David Z

Leo: You must defend it or lose it. They need to know you also have the muscle behind you. I have the attorney that did all the trademark work for Terminator 1-4, Rambo, old timer who knows every angle. I have him on retainer and would love to join your cause. I can arrange a chat with him at no cost, then you can decide to move ahead, or if the cost seems to steep, I would be interested in partnering with you on the trademark. Fight on Leo! Let me know if you want to chat Thx Chad - Chad Harris

Reading this I'm also thinking, if you move forward as some here suggest, be ready to go after Twitpic.com and every other Twit* variation to aggressively defend everywhere or lose steam on all fronts. Is that a good identity move? This is not a simple question to consider when everything is taken into account. - Ken Camp

I'm of the opinion that twitter's initial success back in 2006 and 2007 was in part due to piggybacking on the brand name recognition that Leo had built over the years prior. - Chris Heath

I think defending it is what you must do, but perhaps take a different look at it all together and suggest some kind of mutual PR blitz leading into a partnership or new brand identity for TWiT. Just don't call it SyFy! - Aaron T. Harvey

The question here is would a "Reasonable person" confuse the two? I would like to think I am a reasonable person (even though I can't spell) and I would not be confused in the least. I love the Twit network and watch several hours a week, but I don't see the issue. - Rob

I agree that since Leo has been a twitter evangelist all these years, they should be able to strike an accord somehow. Maybe even partnering up on the whole Twitter TV Show since Leo has the video presence online. - Bryan Lee

You have to defend now, or 5 years from now you'll have a weaker case against the twitty podcast network. - Robert Hafer

Rob, the question isn't whether or not you or I would confuse the two, but do the people who watch Oprah and maybe catch Leo on The Tech Guy confuse them...and they do. - Aaron T. Harvey

Aaron...Do you really think they would. Am I that out of touch with the "Normal People"? If that is the case then I guess I would have to conseed that to be an issue. But I am still not quite convenced. - Rob

Funny - I would enjoy the extra publicity - You have a loyal set of listeners - and none of us are confused. If people end up on your site -cause they are looking for twitter, maybe they will take a listen. People who are looking for podcasts on technology though i doubt will find twitter in a search. - Laurence Gold

Rob, I've seen it happen, even with people "in the know". People think that TWiT is somehow connected with Twitter because of the name. It's a mistake that, while not happening with everyone--and maybe not even the majority--can end up costing Leo and co. money. - Aaron T. Harvey

Protect what you worked hard to build - Shawn Hickman

Had Apple been named "TWiT," you can be assured there would be no talk of a TwitterTV... - Christopher A Carr

Of course you should perfect TWIT for media and tech. You have the prior art, use. It's an obvious move for Twitter to exploit their 'brand' into media. You must pursue Leo. You have been a crusader for fair-use, but there are times (like this example) where fairness requires accountability. - michael sean wright

The commenter who noted that if you do not enforce your rights they may be weakened is generally correct. I suggest seeking an agreement that is mutually beneficial and recognizes your rights in the TWiT(R) trademark. - erik pelton

The problem with defending your trademark is the public backlash it can generate. Think O'Reilly and Web 2.0 or Apple and Profit Pod. But in this case, if you are indeed convinced that there is some infringement of TWiT by Twitter, I think you'd be doing us all a favor if you could somehow head off their plans for a celebrity-stalking TV show. - Dave

The problem is not really twitter, or a twitter video show, but all the people who says they just sent a twit. Also all the small companies with twit in their name, who are in the video/audio area. Twit radio, twitvid.io etc etc. I see no problem in protecting the brand. However it ends out you'll get a lot of publicity. - Anton Tanderup

Leo, this could be an opportunity for you to come out ahead. Yes it's an awkward situation and yes you could fight this on legal grounds, but there's no win for you there. Here's a way for you to win. Today your brand is a split brand--split between "Leo LaPorte" and "TWIT." You can win by focusing more on building the Leo LaPorte part of the brand. "Leo LaPorte" doesn't equal TWIT, yr... more... - Michael Metz

man you gotta defend your name and trademark,whats next a twitter podcast network? - cliff whitefoot

I think Ken Sheppardson sums it up nicely. I don't think you even need to retain a lawyer to start with the cease and desist letters, then see if they are amenable to a settlement, partnership or other remedy. It doesn't have to, and hopefully won't ever, come to a legal battle. However, it's clear enough that unless Leo hands them his mark and re-brands on his own dime, he must defend... more... - Richard ¿digame? Walker

Its funny... in a way you helped make twitter the juggernaut it is today.... all the free advertisement that you have given them over the years....LOL.. Maybe they should return the favor - Nathan McClain

Hasn't Leo said he wants to add a second host to the network? Wouldn't it also confuse viewers if they were watching the Leo Laporte Network and the show was hosted by someone not named Leo? - Norm Corriveau

Leo, some other people have made good points, if you're going after Twitter your also going to have to go after the other sites with Twit in the name: Twitpic, Twitpwr and Twiteverything or your case will be thrown out. - DarknessFalls

DarknessFalls: he'd only have to do that if they all launched TV shows too. - Martin Bryant

darknessfalls, you're not getting the scope. it's about leo's twit trademark on video and what twitter plans to do that's associated with it. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

If you haven't done so already, explore the Apple case, both the legal and business issues that Apple Corps encountered. And if you DON'T defend your trademark, what's Plan B? Remember that Twitter (or its future owners) may someday sue YOU. - John E. Bredehoft from fftogo

Leo, take your mark and make them all change names. Is this Ustream show even official Twitter? it looks pretty lame, like they just used the word, visual branding like twitter.com. http://www.ustream.tv/channel... - rob friedman

Don't sue unless you can find a business case and a lawyer to take the case on contingency with enough potential gain that it all wouldn't have been a big waste of time for a couple hundred dollars. But I am not a lawyer (IANAL). In fact, the grown up thing for twitter to do would be to link to you with an explanation that they aren't you and visa versa. - Eric Standlee

Defend yourself, Leo. - Devin Baines

Defend your trademark. Why else would you have filed it in the first place? - phil baumann

The best solution would be for Leo to produce the official Twitter show as part of the TWiT network. - Martin Bryant

The brand is big because of Leo yes, but having the TWiT brand is important. There are shows on the network in which Leo is not in. - Anton Tanderup

Whats the question? TWiT is yours Leo, you need to protect it, the TWiT Army is not only at your back but with 60% of new Twitter accounts not coming back, all you have to do is hold out and wait on it to fold anyways. - Bush Williams

Anton, the band is TWiT - twit.tv? - TWiT netcast network... that is the brand... - Chris Heath

It is totally unfair, but I want to see all of your focus and money going towards content, not legal actions. You will be endlessly sending out C&Ds or worse as long as Twitter is popular. That said, I do think you should squeeze some money out of Ev in order to cede the brand. - invariant - farewell FF

Twitter offers more value to me than TWiT ever could. Sorry Leo, but this just seems like sour grapes. - Shannon

Leo: You should do a This Week in Law on this btw. - Anton Tanderup

Shannon - how much value you get from either brand is not what is at question here. - Chris Heath

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned in the nearly 150 comments here, but Leo's link doesn't work. Here's a better link that I hope stays active: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin... - Eric Geller

+1 to chris' comment. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

You have a "defend or lose" obligation under trademark law. The TWiT brand has significant value, both from a revenue perspective and and the potential cost of re-branding al your sites, moving twit.tv etc., if you lose it. Protect the mark that secures your brand. Oh yeah, on that whole "big guy" theme: Because of your stable business model vs Twitter's Twitter's evolving one, an... more... - David Lounsbury

Shannon, the post asks for advice on how to be the best caretaker of a network and its trademark - your assignment of personal value should guide your own choices, but is irrelevant to the question at hand. How can it be sour grapes if failing to act now _could_ result in losing the standing of a trademark/brand which preceded those of other players who _may_ be crossing the line to the point of infringement. - Micah Wittman

TWiT offers more value to me than Twitter ever could. Sorry Shannon, but this just seems like sour grapes. - invariant - farewell FF

What a conundrum. I can't speak much to any legal considerations. But, on an emotional level, I would imagine that not defending and potentially losing the name must feel like smiling politely as an immigration official pins you with a random Anglicized name because your real, "ethnic" name is confusing to the masses in the new world, and making a fuss is to gamble the welfare of your... more... - Micah Wittman

@Ken Camp: Isn't twitter also a common english word which can't be trademarked? EDIT: Or Windows, for that matter? - invariant - farewell FF

invariant -- you mean like Apple? - Brian Sullivan

word, err, I mean Microsoft Word - Micah Wittman

I think your best brand is "Leo Leporte". TWiT is just where Leos at. - Matthew Snape

So I think we've established that common English words can be trademarked. So what's the criteria? Has to be a noun? - invariant - farewell FF

of related note, i realise that twitter is indirectly facilitating twit offshoots upon registration. this is how: registering anything with 'twitter' in the username is *banned*. so, for a user already having their heart set on using twitter as part of their 'brand' might think of using 'twit' instead. this opens up a new can of worms figuring out who is using the twit name and doing video. like how they are doing now with 'twiter', they can stop it at registration to avoid further confusion. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

I say defend it. If they are doing a TV show, they're definitely stepping on your toes. Nevermind that I can't imagine their show would be any good, but that's a different story... :) - Jan Ole Peek

What about TwiTips? If that isn't entertainment then what is? But seriously I own several trademarks myself and I know if you don't take action then you could lose the Tmark. You have a conundrum because Twitter is so popular. So I would recommend seeking a compromise so that you won't lose your mark and appear like the bad guy with the public. Perhaps a clearer definition of the terms... more... - BLOGBloke

Other than I think he needs to see a surgeon to fix that lean to the left he has,... I love the guy and have been listening to him for about 15...16...dang probabaly close to 18 years about tech news I love the guy. And to top it off! He knows what he is talking about!! Leo makes am radio worth a listen on the weekends! - John Apostoli

TWiT is a network providing audio and video broadcast covering issues related to the tech field. Twitter is a social network used to connect people using the basic SMS tools. While people *may* confuse the issue by referring to Twitter messages as "twits, there is no evidence that Twitter has used or endorsed the term. Unless & until Twitter (as a company) starts using the term "Twit"... more... - David J. Garcia

I've said this privately, but I guess I will say it publicly.Defend your mark. It is your livelihood. There WILL be confusion if it gets to TV, where people are not tech savvy and have no idea who you are - Francine Hardaway

Yes, it may be expensive, and yes, these fights are draining, Dave, but until the laws are changed (an entirely different question), Leo could lose part of his livelihood through the confusion, especially since he has advertisers who would probably want him to defend. Everything in the universe doesn't happen in Silicon Valley:-) - Francine Hardaway

David - until now that has been the case, but Twitter is planning on doing a TV show (which would definitely be infringement), which is why this debate is happening. - imperator3733

I would certainly want you to defend it but i don't think its gonna be possible for two reasons. First Twitter is a bigger, more powerful and certainly more loved brand with more money. and you were first to infringe the unofficial agreement by hosting Twit Army. in that perspective you might not be able to defend it legally.besides the audience you've built ain't gonna be affected by what twitter does.So consult a legal advisor & take best course of action. Best of Luck - Abhishek

I think if you approach it in good faith--initially without lawyers--you have a very good chance to work something out. Ev seems to be a very reasonable guy. Perhaps it's best to draft a strategy with counsel before any discussions though. What's really in your favor(perhaps legally, perhaps not) is that Twitter can't deny how your support and promotion for it was incendiary to the... more... - Gregg Scott

http://www.googlefight.net/... - ouch - Nate

What's the point of a googlefight here Nate? - Chris Heath

Sorry but the Google fight site is loaded with pop-ups that even show through popup blocker. - Usman Bashir

Usman, I didn't get any popups (using chrome on winxp) but still it's a hideous site - Chris Heath

Twitter has a lot of investment, but I'm not sure all of that is liquid money. You may be even in the money spent defending your Trademark. I say go for it. Do it now though if you do. - Jesse Stay

Leo must Defend! - Jim Mahon

If it was me, I'd defend it. While Twitter is still worth something! Talk to a lawyer first and see if you have a valid case. - John Frazer

You must defend. - Will Bostwick

I can't believe how long this thread has gotten! - Bryan Lee

Seems like you are getting a lot of FREE promotion as a result of twitter. My bigger concern would be not having the twit.com URL to go with your brand name. That's a big issue! - Craig Shipp

@Craig, twit.com was registered in 1997, and it's parked. - rob friedman

Twit is your trademark for the company you have built up. It seems rather unfair that they would brand their idea so similar. I would defend it and all the hard work you have done. - Matthew Davis

Defend it Leo. Things may get ugly, but sometimes they just gotta. - David Chartier from BuddyFeed

Fight for you trademark! Especially since they knew of your prior use and now they are doing a TV show which they should know is stepping on your trademark. - russellcoleman

Defend, owning Twitter may not be useful for you yourself, but you could make a profit off of it if you were to sell it. Go for it Leo! - Zachary TG

If you decide to fight this I'll up my monthly donation. - KyleHase from twhirl

What Kyle said!! - jcunwired

Leo, FriendFeed community, let's get practical here - Twitter has more resources and probably a decent case defending against what you could file. It would be a blow to your image, to TWiT's image, and be bad press overall. You have a far greater chance of losing credibility than gaining trademark protection. You need to look into other strategies. - Ben Parr

There is no such thing as bad Press - Jesse Stay from email

I would thin kthat the thing to do is to gently but firmly convince them that they are infringing on your brand, that litigation would be damaging to both of you, losing community goodwill over the fight, and that it would be simpler, faster, and cheaper for both entities if they were to pay for your rebranding effort. Be prepared to present them with the estimated costs of litigation,... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Defend your Trademark. It's the responsible thing to do as a buisness. - Donald Forth

Defend your trademark - Russ Jackson

what Kyle & guruvan said. Does anyone else think we need threaded comments for conversations like this right here? - Richard ¿digame? Walker

I'd defend the TWiT trademark. - Jonathan Bloom

I'm not as thunk as you drink I am - David Lloyd

Also there is this guy who has a "beef" with twitter http://twitter.co.uk/ - rob friedman

@rob friedman - That guy says Twitter doesn't require you to validate your email address. Wow, that's ripe for abuse! - invariant - farewell FF

Defend. - Tony Meyer

Talk to a lawyer. - Zian Choy

More than a hundred comments, the community is twitting even on friendfeed. A legal action would be very difficult. You should first define your objective in doing so. Do you really want to protect your brand or settle for a lucrative compensation? Even if you get some sort of legal protection limiting Twitter to use or endorse the word "twit" to some extent, people will still be... more... - Cem ARGUN

Cem: I'm afraid I don't understand that first sentence of yours. Can you explain? - Christopher A Carr

It's only infringement if trademark string parser is case insensitive TWiT® != Twit® - KyleHase

Prior art (and obligatory MP reference) http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Jay Cuthrell

Maybe a dead issue? At least as far as the potential fight w/ Twitter, Inc. Mashable says Twitter responds no official Twitter TV show http://mashable.com/2009... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

And now for something completely different... watch the meetup room if interested in seeing Spamalot in SF as a group... - Richard ¿digame? Walker

I would say defend it. Of course, I'm just a Twit.tv fan and not a lawyer. - Joey Gibson

You lose so much credibility with all this nonsense. - PC Easy from twhirl

'all this nonsense'?? wtf is that supposed to mean? - Chris Heath

Just leave it alone until they manage to make some real money off it, then litigate. That's how it's done you know. - Will Higgins™

Yeah this is nonsense. If you think you really have a case, then don't make a big stink about it on Friendfeed. Just go take them to court. - PC Easy from twhirl

Leo, I am a long time fan and constant listener to all of you work. You are a more than fair and wholly honorable man. You have had TWIT long before I ever heard of a twitter. Go with your heart Leo. I am behind you. I understand you would impede progress of any positive kind. But a cease and desist letter. Seems harsh. I think you have a winner. Let them buy the TM. Power to the people. Go Leo, you deserve it. You do only good. You are one of a kind! RodneO - RODNEY OLIVER

PC Easy: I don't think Leo's making a big stink. The idea that twitter would get into the tv/video business would be a big thing since they have a verbal agreement with Leo not to get into that business. This may be all for nothing, since the mashable article guruvan linked above states that twitter will not be doing a show. Leo was doing the best first step (imho) in asking the community for guidance in the event that the original reporting was correct (which it does not appear to be now). So moot point - Chris Heath

I think if I was you Leo I would try to license rights to them and get some mula out of it. Remember "Leo Laporte" goes a lot farther than TWIT does and most importantly ever will. - Eric VM

there's a current backlash on twitter trending topics right now w/ hashtag #notwittertv. the examiner has an unfavorable article here: http://www.examiner.com/x-264-C... even alyssa milano is against it: http://twitter.com/Alyssa_... - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Its going to suck and bomb... guaranteed. - Rustic Thoughts

Maybe just sell it to them Leo for a gazillion dollars and retire. Keep the leaches out of it..meaning the lawyers. What the heck, Leo you are great at trend setting, you practically put twitter on the map. They owe you something.for all the pub you have given them since their inception. - John Apostoli

Defend. There's really no reasonable alternative. - Jason Clarke

You gotta defend it Leo. What's the point of trademarking in the first place. - Joel Lovato

You have to defend what is legally yours. - Michael Hansel

Twitter Responds: There is No Official Twitter TV Show- Mashable (May 25th, 2009 | by Pete Cashmore) -- http://mashable.com/2009... -- There is no official Twitter TV show—although if there were it would be fun to cast! In dealing with networks and production companies we sometimes have simple agreements. Regarding the Reveille and Brillstein project reported today,... more... - Chris Loft

Leo, suggest you go "open source co-branding" on this. Monetize your "twit" brand through creative brand licensing with emerging entertainment and multimedia microblogging companies that want to ride the "twitter" bandwagon. I can see creative corporate and individual co-brands like, TwitSounds, TwitFilms, TwitMedia, TwitCats, TwitBitch, TwitMechanic, etc... - Mike Schmidt

If I hear the word "monetize" one more time, my eardrums will begin bleeding. That is all. - wyclif

I don't want to over simplify this but if Twitter do branch into video and even streaming TV, surely the content would have to be substantially different to what TWiT already provides, otherwise they are at risk of spoiling their brand identity. Stay strong and true to the Tech news content and let Twitter, well do what ever they may do. Personally, I think it would be a mistake for them to go down this road. Time may be better spent further improving the existing service. - Kevin J Hatton

the mashable news is taken directly from the twitter blog: http://blog.twitter.com - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Maybe it's a good time to Re-Brand. Twit has unfortunate connotations in some areas of the English speaking world. On this side of the pond a twit is an idiot. Until I became aware of Leo I gave TWiT a very wide berth. Branded simply as This Week in Tech it would have got my positive attention a whole lot sooner. Time to move onward and upward. - Gilbert Harding

This was copied and pasted but sums it up so well : Of course, there's a larger long-term problem because of the way that Twitter has weakened _your_ brand. It might be less expensive (and a better use of your time) to rebrand TWiT into something that strengthens your brand and moves it away from Twitter; avoiding any future problems (and there will be future problems). You can't fight Oprah. - Professor Messer - Fragtastic

A very worthy point - "I think that once you see the Twitter television show, you'll probably want to distance yourself as far away as possible. - Professor Messer" - Fragtastic

I'll admit to being a little slow on the uptake to both TWiT and twitter and it took me some time to figure out that they were different things. I was listening to TWiT before I found twitter, and at first I wondered if I was mixing the names up in my head. I think there is real potential for confusion between the two names. Good luck in whatever you decide to do, Leo. - Rick Reynolds

You could ride the wave of popularity Twitter is experiencing by allowing that confusion to blossom. Perhaps more people could start listening and watching your netcasts *because* of that confusion? - David Hepworth

You need to defend your brand, however since you know the guys at Twitter maybe you can come to some sort of agreement that is the best interest of both TWiT and Twitter. - Jim Lavin

I say defend the brand. I fully believe Leo and TWiT will outlive Twitter. It would be a shame to surrender the brand only to see it disappear in 1-2 years. - Martin Johnson

I think you should definitely defend it. Whatever it will be called, Twitter-TV will make a big splash and Twit, being less mainstream than Oprah, won't even make a dent. And if they want your trademark, they should pay for it. - Vincent van Wylick

I say defend it, if you don't the that opens the door to other infringements. - Hunter

since you clearly took your name from This Week in Baseball, which deputed in 1977, should MLB defend their trademark with you? - glenn simmons

Defend it! definitely, the trademark is rightfully yours and you need to hold on to it...I like twitter, but I like TWiT even more... - Raymond

Glenn, you are wrong. There are many registered trademarks that contain "this week in" - russellcoleman

See what you have started Leo? Twitter TV is not a patch on what you do. Now if it was professionally done, with great audio then maybe, - Kevin J Hatton

Dealing with a similar issue (though not as big as dealing with Twitter). I say throw out a warning shot to protect your brand. Worst case they ignore you and you have to spend gobs of money to defend it. Best case they make you a $$ offer. - Brian Niles from Nambu

russellcoleman, exactly so why is Leo crying about twitter - glenn simmons

Glenn, because "Twit" is Leo's trademark in the area of entertainment in the nature of visual and audio performances, and musical, variety, news and comedy shows. - russellcoleman

Defend it! - Kiran Patchigolla

Sorry Leo, does that mean I can't call people Twitts? Does it mean no one in a television or audio show can use the word twitt? I mean Twitter...TWIT...they have 3 more letters and their brand is based on communication not entertainment. Give up the ghost against Twitter by now dude. IF they were doing what you were doing MAYBE but what you are saying is noone can use the letters T W I or T .... don't become the next Monster. - Sidney

Defend. No retreat. No surrender. - Barry Biddlecomb from twhirl

Sidney, it means they can't use twit as part of their brand if they go into the areas Leo's trademark covers. We are talking about branding here. - russellcoleman

Again, Twitter is a communication company looking to capitalize on providing television content the ability to have immediate interactive component...Nothing that TWIT does...so no infringement. Leo has always had the axe to grind with Twitter...if he was going to do something he should have done it immediately... - Sidney

My understanding is that Twitter is going to have a TV show and that may infringe. My point above was to the suggestion that no one could say the word twit. - russellcoleman

@Christopher Carr, I meant that twitting has become a generic expression going far beyond Twitter. Here on friendfeed we are twitting, an these lines are in fact twits... :) - Cem ARGUN

As an anecdote, until now I thought TWiT was something twitter related, and I basically ignored it for that reason. I have learned over time that I'm often not a good representative of anything, but there was certainly brand confusion in my case. - Robin Barooah

Robin: You're not alone. I thought TWiT was Twitter-related too :( - Tech Introvert

At first, yep, I thought Twit spawned Twitter. But in a few nanoseconds, I knew otherwise. But in the mind of 'ordinary' (horrible term, sorry) user coming at Twit from Twitter surely they'll get the idea. But Twitter is SO pervasive, I'm glad that you've decided to take advice. I know nothing, but I feel you should protect your brand. Don't change your name. Change the game. On another tack, you checked out http://audioboo.fm ? - John C Wesley Barker

"Again, Twitter is a communication company looking to capitalize on providing television content the ability to have immediate interactive component." - Sidney That is exactly what Leo's doing - Anton Tanderup

news of twitter tv just hit the local abc news. they mentioned there's already direct opposition by celebrities ashton & demi who (according to their tweets) will quit twitter if this reality show sees the light of day (paraphrasing). this could mean -as they say & putting it lightly- 'my enemy's enemy is my friend?' odd yet amusing opposition from the hollywood. however, no mentions of twit and leo. :-\ - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Twitter can look to capitalize on providing television content the ability to have immediate interactive component all they want. But I don't think they should do it in a way that can cause any confusion between them and Leo's network. - russellcoleman

Sorry the only confusion people have had is what Leo has brought to the table himself. He should have stepped up long ago if he felt Twitter was going to create confusion and admittably it has and TWIT and Twitter don't even cross streams. I know for one if Leo wastes his money on litigation I for will be disappointed and believe it will harm the TWIT brand. - Sidney

i know this thread is too long to read for many. re-quoting what leo said here for those who keep saying he should have stepped up long ago: "Ev told me that when they were considering names for Twitter they knew about TWiT and decided it didn't matter. In their defense, they had no idea what or how big Twitter was to become. We talked about trademark early on and both agreed there was no conflict _as long as we were in different spaces_. And therein lies the rub. - Leo Laporte" - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Very tough choice. I think these comments provide you with a fairly good sample of public opinion from people in tech, but it would be interesting to get input from the rest of the world on Twitter who have never heard of TWiT. It certainly won't cost much to send in a warning shot so they take notice and to demonstrate defense of your TM, but I would follow that up with a request to... more... - Phil Ashman

Give it up Leo ... You may win the battle ,, but you wont win the War IMHO ,, Unless you have deeper pockets than Twitter ... is your time/money worth fighting over it ? Only *you* can answer that! - johnpiercy

This twitter thing is just a flash in the pan, you can wait them out ;-) - Wolfman-K

If he fights and loses, at least he defended it, which is required to keep it. If Leo does nothing, he could lose it. - Bwana ☠

How do people feel about Monster Cable suing companies that use the word Monster in their name? I feel the same here...except that Twitter just happens to have the same four LETTERS as Twit, as the beginning. They arent using Twit as a standalone word. C'mon. - Andru Edwards

The only justification I can see in Leo going after Twitter is so that he can at least show he is defending his TM so he doesn't lose it as Bwana said...otherwise I think it is a losing game that will be a waste of resources that TWIT could utilize in other productive pursuits. - Sidney

The Monster Cable example doesn't really work. They were suing companies that were in different spaces. Now with Twitter doing a TV show, that is in the same space as TWIT and Leo has the trademark for it. - Mike Child

Everyone should read this: http://blog.twitter.com/2009... It has been linked a few times in this discussion up above, but bears linking again based on recent comments - From what I can tell, it doesn't look like twitter will have a tv show - so this whole point is moot - leo may have to defend his trademark against these 'other' shows if they use the word twit in their name, but i don't think they will - Chris Heath

Leo -This is a battle that will be HELL. Yet, it is critical you fight it. I had a couple situations very much like it in telecommunications late '80s early '90s. I should have fought. Give them a run for their money. It will cost you $$ and resources. But, with Twitter's new direction - man - you're a journalist at heart... You already know - you've got to fight for your right! - Arleen Anderson

Man this is a tough position to be in. Honestly, I can't see TWiT or Twitter changing brands/names. However, Leo, you were first and you have the trademark to back it up. I say defend it! - Doug Jones

Biz responds to the Twitter TV show on the blog: http://blog.twitter.com/2009... - Doug Jones

not reading the thread befire i comment... but seems to me that TWITTER does not equal TWIT. what else is their to know? - sull

Leo, I think the law is very clear, if you don't defend your trademark you may lose it. - David Angel from twhirl

Leo a firestorm is brewing over twitter tv http://www.nydailynews.com/tech_gu... - dday

Make them pay you a million in cold hard cash for the TWIT name and change your name to TWIG - This Week In Goodness :-) - Richard Bitting

When you see such services as "TwitThat" (http://twitthat.com/), with that spelling of "tweet", there is an incredible amount of confusion waiting to happen ! - arnaudt

arnaudt, good point. and again... TWiT does NOT = twitter - so leo has no case. twitter themselves dont use 'twit' in any way. they barely if at all use 'tweet' in any way. they began as 'twtr' in like 2006. twitter is NOT an abbreviation for anything as TWiT is. twitter is not solely behind producing an entertainment property.. they are granting rights to others to do so and in some... more... - sull

sull, TWIT does NOT have to = twitter for Leo to have a case. People just have to be confused enough to adversely impact, or even potentially impact, Leo's business. - Chris Gardner

Chris, i think it does for him to have a 'good' case. You cannot prevent Twitter from letting media entities use twitter as part or their 'shows', even if twitter as some levell of partnership. In the end, it will cost Leo money to lose a trademark case. Proving, for example, that an MTV show tentatively named 'what you're watching' that uses twitter and facebook etc as fundemental components for audience interaction has any negative effect to the TWiT podcast. - sull

sull, there just needs to be a likelihood of confusion. The Court there announced eight specific elements to measure likelihood of confusion: Strength of the mark - Proximity of the goods - Similarity of the marks - Evidence of actual confusion - Marketing channels used - Type of goods and the degree of care likely to be exercised by the purchaser - Defendant's intent in selecting the mark - Likelihood of expansion of the product lines - Chris Gardner

Oh, and TWiT is not just a podcast. It is a live streaming net video network. There are on and off talks to take to cable also. - Chris Gardner

Chris, thanks for pointing those elements of liklihood. Still, i think that even for the case to have a leg to stand on, twitter would need to have a 'show' specifically named in a way that may cause confusion. That has not happened. Trying to prevent the word 'twitter' from being used at all in marketing and branding via "visual and audio performances" because of the TWiT trademark seems a stretch and will prob result in negative publicity for Leo. Anyway, maybe we'll see. Interesting. - sull

sull, agreed interesting. Also, this will probably not go anywhere near the courts. Ev Williams and Leo know each other and get along (not many in the industry that Leo does not get along with). They will work things out. - Chris Gardner

For those who are unaware, people have to take action to protect their brands otherwise they lose their trademark. My suggestions and observations: 1. Look for win-win 2. It all seems moot anyway http://blog.twitter.com/2009... tho this is a fascinating thread 3. If twitter did ever go ahead with this it would be a fairly simple compromise for them to... more... - Isha (Marysia)

You need to defend it. I don't know that you'll stop twitter from launching their show but you have to fight it to keep your trademark valid. You for sure need to go after twitvid.com and twitvideo.com! - The Griff

Defend the trademark. It could make the difference on winning a future trademark case with another company. - David Ebaugh

Defend it. It was your long before Twitter was even around. Like someone else said what is the point of calling your network that if as soon as a bigger fish comes along you cave. Don't give in to the man Leo! - Mr. Thomas

Leo. I am not a lawyer and don't play one on the Internet. It sounds like you have no real case against Twitter, but the producers of the rumored tv show are a different story. Even then, it depends on what they are doing with the subject matter. Is it *about* Twitter, or simply about people who use Twitter? Will they ever use the term, "twit" in the show? It certainly couldn't hurt to... more... - Jake Overton

While this is getting a lot of buzz now, it didn't even occur to me till it was posted. I think both have built their brands, both have similar sounding names but are different. Isn't TWiT an acronym? I would be more concerned with TWiB (This week in Baseball) going after Leo if he goes on TV as his show title is clearly a play on theirs, and not Leo being concerned about Twitter... ;) Either way Leo, you got some free publicity for your program/site out of this. - mike wood

Let's not forget that use of anything in an editorial context is considered fair use. - Ryan Brodkin

I also feel that you have an opportunity for even more publicity if you can work the TWiT shows into the TV show, joining them rather than fighting them. You will get publicity either way, but there seems to be a high road and a low road (or perception thereof). Good luck and keep up the great shows. - Jake Overton

Leo fight them. - johnny

we neec to fight for TWIT - Richard Thomson

So far I don't think there is a conflict with Twitter, unless there is a Twitter TV show. Although you should fight sites like http://twitvid.io . Plus if you win, you could have an awesome domain for video downloads when you want to offer them. - Mister IQ

Apparently there's a popular twitter client app in Japan called "Twit" http://wakoopa.com/softwar... It's the first "twit" result on Google Japan and Yahoo Japan. - KyleHase

Gary Burd

Mini marshmallow blow guns.

May 25 - Comment - Like - Share

Jerry Chacon, Larry Hawes, Hutch Carpenter and 17 other people liked this

I'm sure it's not just useful for marshmallows? - DarknessFalls

mashable

ALERT: Facebook Scammers Turn to TinyURLs - http://mashable.com/2009...

May 25 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Jokin Lacalle, Kathryn, Thomas Power and Jason Pollock liked this

i just retweeted this. thanks for the heads up! - Jason Pollock

Holy crap, Facebook should just turn of mail until it's over - DarknessFalls

FriendFeed Feedback: DarknessFalls

Back in March twitter changed their title tags from "Twitter / Username" to "Full Name (Username) on Twitter" and since they've seen their unique visitors soar to 19 million a month, maybe FriendFeed should consider using a title tag similar to Twitters.

May 24 - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, Alden Smith, Jim Braux-Zin and Brett Kelly liked this

You really think this soaring is attributable to some title tag? - ianf ⌘

3 more comments

Some of it, probably a fraction really, but if you think about it FriendFeed's current unique visitor number is also a fraction of Twitters, in the end every little bit counts when it comes to new users finding FriendFeed - DarknessFalls

Right, but aren't you comparing, no no fruits, but fruit flies and -bats? To really compare with Twitter you'd have to pick a competing micro-blogging-via-cellphone service like Pownce [R.I.P.], not such an indescribable something as is the FF. - ianf ⌘

Ok then lets take a look at Jaiku and Identi.ca, now here's a graph of their unique vistors : http://siteanalytics.compete.com/identi... note that Jaiku's uvs have gone down and note that after the initial media attention and loss of interest Identi.ca's uvs have gone up. Now compare their title tags, guess which one uses the Twitteresque "Full Name (Username) - ServisName" and which one uses "ServisName | Posts from Username" It might not do allot, but it's worth a shot. - DarknessFalls

No it isn't, and I'll tell you why: attempting to gain any insight into complex, dynamic patterns by pointing at any single "factorlet" is akin to foretelling fortune not out of tea leaves, but out of a single grain of salt that once may or may not have resided in the same cupboard as the tea tin. - ianf ⌘

Robert Hafer

FCC received record 55,000 calls after analog shut off test - http://www.engadgethd.com/2009...

May 25 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Ho John Lee, Mark Goddard, Kevin Whalen and 4 other people liked this

As predicted, the delay did no good whatsoever. - Robert Hafer

6 more comments

I guess the delay was underfunded too. Damn. </sarcasm> - Craig Eddy

I don't think you can say that, the numbers of people still not ready have dropped significantly. - Richard Lawler

You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. - Dean Clark

I say scew em if they aren't ready. It's not like it a new idea or anything. Should've gotten off their ass and done something about it. With the coupons the converter is free. At least some models are. - nef 919 from twhirl

So, when do we decide that government mandating this was a mistake? In other words, why couldn't TV stations continue along like they were (ie, providing both signals) until the MARKET dictated that providing the standard def signal was no longer worth it to the station? - Craig Eddy

They should just switch now and then deal with the aftermath instead of wasting all this money preparing when nobody is listening, it's like hurricane Katrina, we told them to get out, they didn't listen, so we're just going to have to go save them. - DarknessFalls

@Craig: Because if you let the broadcasters continue to squat on the analog spectrum until "everybody is off", it will be decades before the switchover is complete. The FCC pretty much had to just suck it up and force the switch and then deal with the aftermath in order to get the spectrum back so that it can be put to better use. - Christopher A. Wichura

FriendFeed Feedback: DarknessFalls

The cross posting option are all about Twitter, how about adding the option to choose between Twitter, Plurk, Identi.ca or any combination using the existing options?

May 24 - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, alex falkenberg, Rui Pereira and 2 other people liked this

Apparently folks have been begging for this for ages. I've definitely been asking for identi.ca. Let's hope the lobbying pays off :) - Uche Ogbuji

Then why is it taking so long if it should be simple (enough) to implement (just guessing) - DarknessFalls

Nathalie, Dreamer of FF to Nathalie,'s feed, FriendFeed Feedback

I know my subscription, subscriber, comment and like counts - could I also have my post count? (direct to FriendFeed and not total when counting the additional feeds (twitter, last.fm, etc.) )

May 24 - Comment - Like - Share

Alex Scoble, (jeff)isageek, Iain Baker and 9 other people liked this

I concur - RAPatton

3 more comments

Yes please. - Kol Tregaskes

i would be interested to see my post count as well. - (jeff)isageek

Feed posts and FF posts combined could be called item count and post count could be just FF posts - DarknessFalls

good idea! :) - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

Trish R

I'm so annoyed. Doing maintenance on the computer and discovered not only does my son play World of Warcraft, but he recently joined a forum called World of Porncraft, where people submit cartoon characters from the game doing things besides leveling their characters.

May 24 - Comment - Like - Share

Christian Burns , Kol Tregaskes, Michael W. May and 29 other people liked this

oh dear. (how old is he?) - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

93 more comments

ouch! - Steven Hodson

Nathalie, he's 16. - Trish R

16 and normal, I'd say. - Alex Scoble

Not good... how did he pay for his subscription?? You have to have a credit card... - Lindsay

Lindsay, it's a free forum. - Trish R

It's bound to happen. A couple of years ago, we went over to my friends house. Her then 13 yo son had been home alone all day long. I was trying to find something on her TV, when to OnDemand and found he had been watching porn all day long. Talk about awkward. - Admiral Anika

Anika and Alex, I know it's normal. He's done it before. I think I spend more time lecturing him about viruses from these sites than actually looking at what's on the site. - Trish R

Teen boys and porn are like Thongs and butt cracks no matter what you do they find a way. - Moved to Facebook

Pedantic moment: You mean malware, Trish. :) - Alex Scoble

Alex, well no wonder he doesn't listen to me, then! - Trish R

My son visited a porn site when he was seven. You will survive. By the way my son, when he was 14 effectively argued against censorship with the FCC commissioner, Jonathan Adelstein, who proposed all sortsof child protectionlaws in his interview with me. Why? Because if you ban porn, he said, you will just make it more interesting. Why did they visit that porn site? A teacher told them not to (whitehouse.com back then was a porn site). - Robert Scoble

So watch out how you react. If you react badly he will just do it more and will be smarter about hiding it from you. - Robert Scoble

Don't worry, it will lessen in time (=they get better with hiding the evidence) ;) - Jemm

That sounds pretty awesome. Don't worry about it. - Alex Knight

It's actually hard not to laugh. You know how World of Warcraft is by Blizzard Entertainment? This site is sponsored by Jizzard. - Trish R

lol @ jizzard - Moved to Facebook

ROFL - Alex Scoble

LOL @Jizzard. Clevah. - Admiral Anika

Interesting to watch hoe Parents see this. More kids should get on FF! - Yuvi

@ Robert ,Seven years old? Your son rock buddy:p - Amir

16 year old kids should be in college anyway. I think I was doing much worse at 11. Sounds like he should get better at using a computer though. - Cristo

sovereignjohn: you really aren't living in the real world, are you? My son has his own iPhone. He isn't the only one. If some kid wants to see something on the Internet he'll just ask someone like my son. His first porn experience? Was at a friend's home while the parents weren't looking. Oh, and the kids were so smart that one of them knew how to delete the cookies and history (they never got caught, my son told me about it because he trusted me not to make a big deal about it). - Robert Scoble

@Trish - not the forum, World of Warcraft requires a credit card for subscription... does your son have his own CC? - Lindsay

Lindsay, no, he doesn't have a credit card, but there are other ways to play. You can also buy prepaid cards. But he earns his subscription (that I pay for) by his grades and chores. - Trish R

Well, there's much worse a Google search click away. I don't think how you react with have a damn thing to do with your son's future behavior, though. The most dramatic parental meltdown is nothing compared to the power of teen libido. If they're curious, it's there. They'll find it. - Chris Baskind

We have a WoW subscription for our 12 yr old but we play as a family. The game in itself isn't horrible. He's not allowed to group with anyone but us though. We haven't had to deal with the pr0n issue yet though, but I imagine it will be coming in the next 12-24 months. - Lindsay

Robert, when I was in college, I was taking some sort of politics class. The teacher had a laptop hooked to a projector and was going to to the White House website to show us something. She typed in whitehouse.com and then stepped away while the website loaded. We were all horrified when the porn came up on a huge screen. - Rochelle

I think the most damaging thing about porn as a teen is knowing your parents have found it. :) FriendFeed is really entertaining for watching some parents react to their kids behavior. I'm pretty sure they are doing much worse than you know. - Cristo

or tennis elbow Cristo - Moved to Facebook

LOL, take it easy. Porn is harmless. Especially toon/fake porn. - Tanath

Oh Lindsay, I just read my post again and I see why you asked what you did. I already knew he played World of Warcraft. I just meant in addition to playing WoW, he's found the porn forums as well. The way it was worded didn't make that clear, sorry. - Trish R

Cristo: most kids are doing far worse, I agree. The stories my son tells me amaze me. Kids getting kicked out of school for smoking dope in the hallways. Other kids have gotten caught having sex. And people wonder why I started talking to my son about drugs and sex when he was seven and making sure the communication lines were always kept open. - Robert Scoble

Many parents don't give their kids the skills they need to survive in the real world. I remember when two kids I knew drank themselves to death in college once they were away from their parents' protective bubble. - Robert Scoble

Robert, that's a common theme. Kids that haven't been exposed to anything going wild in college, sometimes with disastrous consequences. - Cristo

I agree, I went a little crazy when I left for college. I'd never had alcohol and had extremely controlling parents. I quickly discovered frat parties and nearly died from alcohol poisoning. - Trish R

With kids these days I would be relived he is not actually producing and distributing it from your computer. I would however recommended getting him his own keyboard and mouse. ;) - Kevin Murray

I'm not sure what the laws are here in the states, but I actually think it's good to expose teens to wine at dinner as they do in Europe. That way they understand it, and it isn't a big mystery or secret for them to hide. Same for topless beaches. For some reason Americans are really uncomfortable being upfront with what is normal life. - Cristo

Agreed, Robert. We are trying to be accessible to our kid as well so he feels comfortable asking us questions and confiding in us. I had an incident with my mother when I was about 13 and she yelled at me when I mentioned I liked a boy telling me not to fall in love with him because he'd break my heart. That "conversation" basically cut off the opportunity for me to come to her for... more... - Lindsay

I would listen to Robert on this if I were you. We raised two boys and they each had computers in their rooms from the mid 90's on. We never banned anything in terms of browsing. Robert mentioned "trust". That's the key. Show them that you trust them and they'll return in kind. FWIW, both boys maintained 4.0 GPAs through college. First one did 4 years in the Marine Corps and 2 combat... more... - Gregg Morris

I trust my son, too. Still doesn't mean I'm not going to monitor his computer activity to make sure he's not getting himself into a bad situation. - Trish R

Cristo: the law in the United States is VERY strict regarding alcohol. No alcohol under 21. Period. It really sucks. If you get caught with alcohol in your hand you can be arrested which ensures you lose your drivers license. I've heard of kids getting arrested on their front porch with a beer in their hands. Giving your kids alcohol is dangerous legally. If one of them gets sick and... more... - Robert Scoble

Trish: he's 16. In two years he's going to be an adult. You really spy on him? That seems like a really stupid thing to do. Well, he probably already has figured out you're doing that and will go elsewhere or be very careful about cleaning up his tracks. You aren't helping your kid prepare for the real world where he won't be living under your protective bubble. - Robert Scoble

@Robert - I thought that if you were in your own home (a private residence) you could allow your kid to have a drink and that some people do give their kids wine at dinner like the adults. Maybe that's just an urban myth I have heard... - Lindsay

Trish: trust means that you will not spy on your kids. Think about that one for a moment. It's pretty clear you really don't trust your kids. - Robert Scoble

Lindsay: I had an almost identical experience with my Mom. Now of course, I'm older so it's more natural to discuss relationships, but because of that once incidence, I am never the one to bring up the subject, it's always her. Looking back, this one incident really shaped how I approached (rather, avoided) talking to my parents about relationships. - Angus Burton

Lindsay: I listen to a legal program on KGO radio and you'd be shocked to learn that you are not legally allowed to give your kids alcohol. If they are caught for some reason (which will be pretty difficult to do if they are inside your own home) they can be arrested and it has a lot of negative consequences on driving, especially. - Robert Scoble

I'm with Robert on this one. I think spying on a 16 year old kid is wrong, unless they are doing something already that warrants it, like selling drugs or doing heroin. Surfing porn is not enough to make spying right. - Cristo

Robert: I don't think police have the authority to stop drinking on private property unless the party is "out of control" or not being controlled in some way. - Angus Burton

i agree with robert that theirs a time when you have to let go and let your kids find their way, however your allways there to guide them if they are heading down the wrong path - AV

Angus: inside a private home you are right but if they walk out onto the porch or are visible from the public sidewalk all bets are off. Angus: I've heard enough stories from parents calling KGO radio to know that they can be arrested, even if on private property but they must be visible to cops from public pathways. - Robert Scoble

I don't consider monitoring his computer activity "spying" on him, Robert. If you're ok with your then 7-year-old looking at porn online, that's great. However, I don't want my son getting his sex education from pornography on the internet. I can't stop him from seeing it, but I can take the opportunity to discuss it with him and make sure he's informed about treating women... more... - Trish R

Robert, you mean Len Tillem's show? I wrote a simple iPhone interface to KGO that I find pretty useful: http://www.streetlight.com/iphone - Cristo

Cristo: yeah, I love Len Tillem's show. I listen to it a lot. The stories of how people screw up their lives are very interesting. - Robert Scoble

Cristo, where are you from where you don't know about American laws? I thought you were in California. - Rochelle

Rochelle, I live in a little hill town north of Firenze. Please recite all American laws to me, so I may learn from your wisdom. - Cristo

Trish: my son told me about the incident. The other parents did not find out about it. Why not? Because they were spying controlling uptight parents. One of the seven year olds knew how to delete the cookies and delete the history to make sure they wouldn't be caught. All you are going to do is ensure your son makes sure he doesn't get caught by you. If you think your parenting style... more... - Robert Scoble

Monitoring computer usage is spying, whether it's parents or the government doing it. If your kid is 7, then spying might be a good idea. At 16, I would say it is not a good idea. - Cristo

Porn doesn't make people disrespectful. Unless he's looking at violent porn, you have nothing to worry about. - Tanath

Robert, just like everything else, we all can't be you. We really wish we could, but what good would a world full of perfect people be? You'd have nothing to do or no one to correct if we all did it your way. - Trish R

Chris, I'll get right on that. So you're on the west coast.. of Italy? http://friendfeed.com/cristob... - Rochelle

Rochelle, you can start by telling me whether there is a federal law prohibiting the serving of wine to one's offspring under the age of 18 in a private residence. I am interested in which code violation this is. - Cristo

Chris, liquor laws are all state-by-state so there are no federal laws for it. - Rochelle

Trish: well, let me know how that attitude works out for you and your family. Glad you feel spying on your kid is "trusting" them. - Robert Scoble

I thought kids could drink with their parents, too. I'm pretty sure they can in Texas, I've seen them do it in restaurants. - Trish R

Rochelle, I see. So in order to understand your American laws, one must understand the code system for each of the 50 states. Can you tell me for your particular great state of Washington, if there is a law preventing the serving of alcohol to minors in a private residence? - Cristo

Robert: it sounds like the laws you are talking about must be local to California. In Michigan, where I am, if there is a supervising party, say a parent, then a party with alcohol is free to occur without intervention. On college campuses here, the police can't actually arrest anyone unless they are on public property. I've heard of instances where they wait until someone steps onto... more... - Angus Burton

Trish: I haven't heard of children being able to drink in public with their parents, but on their property they are allowed to, afaik. - Angus Burton

At 16, a substantial percentage of girls in Tokyo are already trading sexual favors (30-something salarymen, generally) for Prada handbags. Toon porn is not that big a deal... - Christopher A Carr

Maybe it's just because I'm from a small hilltown north of Firenze, but I'm surprised there is so much confusion on the American law, given that Rochelle was surprised that an American would not know the law inside and out. - Cristo

Cristo: here's the law about serving alcohol to minors: http://safestate.org/index... The thing about laws is that if the law breaking happens totally within the confines of the home it's very hard to enforce. But if they walk outside and are visibly drunk, or they get in a car, or they are seen with a wine glass on the porch? All bets are off. - Robert Scoble

No American knows the law inside and out, Cristo, including lawyers. - Trish R

Trish: Feel free to kick Kyle's ass. You're the parent. Fuck Scoble or anyone else who judges you. - Chris Baskind

Chris: you're right, but I've seen the carnage that spying parenting leaves. Kids are smarter than you give them credit for. A FREAKING SEVEN YEAR OLD KNEW HOW TO HIDE HIS TRACKS. If you think your 16 year old needs spying to "trust" then you have issues. - Robert Scoble

"I don't want my son getting his sex education from pornography on the internet..." Your 16 year old son? At that age, he may well be getting his sex education from engaging in sex. I was at that age... - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, he could be, you're right. That's why I will continue to discuss safe sex with him and the appropriate and respectful treatment of women. - Trish R

Now that's a conversation I would want a drink for. :) - Cristo

Christopher: I had that conversation with Patrick starting at age seven. When we told him we were having a third baby he asked "geez, haven't you guys heard of protection?" Ahh, the fun of raising kids. - Robert Scoble

Robert: hehehe...I bet you wish you had gotten that on video. - Christopher A Carr

Christopher: yeah, one of those fun moments in life where you have your own words thrown back at you in an unexpected way. - Robert Scoble

The 16-year-old plays World of Warcraft, so he's probably not having sex. - Vezquex: God of FF

Just an FYI for Trish: "Research findings indicate that sexually explicit material in itself does not foster negative attitudes or behavior, but when it is accompanied by images of violence, the risk of subsequent violence is significant." http://www.ncjrs.gov/App... - Tanath

And I can link to more studies indicating the harmlessness of most porn. - Tanath

soverignjohn: my 19-month old can turn on an iPhone and play his favorite apps already. If your 16 year old hasn't gotten the skills to navigate the real world without spying things are wrong somewhere. - Robert Scoble

*I* have issues, Robert? I'm not the one playing junior-grade Dr. Phil here, hectoring a single mother on how she should feel about her kid's internet mischief. And FWIW, I know Trish well enough to state -- without equivocation -- that she is an engaged and responsible parent. We should all do so well. - Chris Baskind

Whoa, everyone take a deep berath. We can discuss our opinions without attacking each other. - DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE

Chris: an engaged and responsible parent shouldn't feel impelled to spy on their kids. That tells me there's distrust going on there. But maybe that's just me. My son tells me stories from the playground that tell me otherwise. - Robert Scoble

Uh...didn't Trish say she was just doing maintenance and found the directories? Hardly constitutes spying. - Neal Jansons

sovereignjohn: I'm saying that you can't protect your kids from all evil. I wasn't the one who gave my son an Internet computer at age seven to surf alone. That happened at a friend's house. Anyone who thinks they can control their kids is wrong. And even if you can, then you don't give them the life skills they need to deal with the real world. I see that carnage when religious kids get to college and drink themselves to death or go crazy on porn and the Internet cause their parents kept them off. - Robert Scoble

If my 19-month old figured out how to surf the Internet I'd be most impressed! - Robert Scoble

Robert Scoble: Especially if the 19 month old figured out how to find porn - DarknessFalls

Trish you're cool, as usual Robert is taking a small point and making a big thing out of it. Part of what he says is true, trust is key and I'm pretty sure you know that already. But I also think that a parent needs to know about what's going even if they are attempting not to "pry". Robert might call that "spying" but I just file that under "hyperbole". - John Hardy

Maybe he got re-directed? - wowfreeze.blogspot.com

Didnt even know this existed... ewww. - Shawn Whitmire

Trish mentioned she wanted to impart respect for women. I suppose that means, at the very least, not physically abusing them. While I was never predisposed to mistreating women to begin with, I recall that the correct behavior was reinforced more by my interaction with prosocial adult males, than by words from my momma. Men are more inclined to say "If I catch you doing x y or z, I'll... more... - Christopher A Carr

Robert Scoble

Tumblr - http://wakoopa.com/softwar...

May 24 from Wakoopa - Comment - Like - Share

DarknessFalls, kilbuda, Brett Kelly and Brent - Loving Life liked this

Now you've found a real "the biggest threat to Twitter" - DarknessFalls

Mr. BabyMan

At six flags hurricane harbor (for the kid more than for me). Six Flags is so ghetto. This is why I prefer the Disney parks.

May 24 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Ghetto as in guns and crack or ghetto as in poor peoples Disney world? - DarknessFalls

Kol Tregaskes to Kol's feed, Movie Reviews, entertainment, Social Media, Social Media Club, Social Media Enthusiasts, TheNextWeb Forum

Chart Your Favorite Films of All Time With Flickchart - louisgray.com - http://www.louisgray.com/live...

May 24 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

jj99, Jeremy Thompson, Lars Clausen and 6 other people liked this

"What movie did you like better - Forrest Gump or Pulp Fiction? What about Pulp Fiction or Star Wars? Star Wars or Rocky? Rocky or Schindlers' List? Toy Story or Field of Dreams?" - Kol Tregaskes from Bookmarklet

Pulp Fiction, Star Wars, Star Wars, Neither, Toy Story - DarknessFalls

mashable

Facebook Scam Update: More scam sites to AVOID- edbuddy(dot)be, mymarket(dot)be, orangefan(dot)be, vispace(dot)be.

May 24 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Marika Dye and Tanath liked this

I see there are more of them this time - DarknessFalls

Loic Le Meur

I thought friendfeed would be the biggest threat... - Robert Scoble - FriendFeed - http://friendfeed.com/scoblei...

May 24 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

Nicholas James, Nicola Quinn, Simon Wicks and 2 other people liked this

This alone has made me reconsider Seesmic. :) - Manuel Mas

10 more comments

Loic was wondering when you would catch this. It was (is) a fascinating discussion! - Peter du Toit (S.Africa)

I doubt Seesmic could ever beat out Twitter, I still think FF has the potential to - DarknessFalls

Well right now I would prefer FF to completely import Twitter with automatic imaginary friends here. That will keep me from using a third party app...currently Digsby for me. - Manuel Mas

Sometimes I think that Robert's primarily qualifier for his cheerleading is that it's new. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva: Uuhh...tough one. - Manuel Mas

My only problem with Seesmic is the Adobe Air platform. I would rather much prefer a Windows based app. Yet, I understand why they are using Air. - Manuel Mas

Seesmic will monetize its applications, and if they succeed in merging other services, they could be the main door to social media for most users. In this case, how could Twitter be competitive with a deserted twitter.com? How could they persuade business that they're better to advertise/understand consumers than third-party applications? - Jérôme Flipo

Seesmic would be like a website embedding Youtube videos with dozens of ads around them (but with tweets instead of videos). Youtube (Twitter) supports most of the cost and has still not found a sustainable business model. - Jérôme Flipo

Loic, as soon as Seesmic supports Friendfeed I'm in :) - Nicola Quinn from Nambu

Holden, as soon as a third app securer a mass audience, they can easily launch services like URL shortening, photo/video support, multi-service search, multi-service profiles (...) that can be easily monetized. - Jérôme Flipo

Holden, I agree with you at 100%. Still, people enjoy downloading heavy applications that don't even have 20% of Friendfeed functionalities. The future is on the web (HTML5) but people live in the present. - Jérôme Flipo

guruvan (Rob Nelson) to guruvan's feed, FriendFeed Feedback

Surely this has come up, but: Using the Share link, I would think that there would/should/could be some option to not only Cc: Twitter but to choose link or not link to the FriendFeed entry.

May 23 - Comment - Like - Share

Waldemar Schott, Kol Tregaskes, tomit and Peter liked this

This could be put on the Twitter options page as an option - DarknessFalls

I would actually prefer this on a case by case basis in the Share dialog box. I like the default settings I have, but sometimes, there is no discussion to link to on FriendFeed, and not likely to be one, but I want to share the item out anyhow, and want the link to go to the source. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

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