David Johnson - Likes

FriendFeed is the easiest way to share online. Learn more »

Did the boys just figure out Facebook allows hate groups? the MOMS pointed this out years ago when they wouldn't allow bfeeding pics. lol

May 10 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Marcus Schroefel, Nicholas James, Jennyjinx and 62 other people liked this

Seriously. How long have we been screaming that they are idiots over there? And NOW the boys start making noise? - Erin @queenofspain

155 more comments

the racist, neo-nazi, pro-annorexia, etc etc etc were all allowed while a pic of me FEEDING my daughter wasn't. facebook has serious issues. - Erin @queenofspain

geez erin, don't you know that boobies are dangerous? it's a known fact that breasts are way more dangerous than folks who talk about exterminating particular religious and ethnic groups. - tiffany

I just find it interesting the group who overlook the mom segment and dismiss us as bored housewives now seem to agree with us about an issue we brought to light a long time ago. - Erin @queenofspain

The boys? - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

the digirati - Erin @queenofspain

Wait, I don't use Facebook, let me get this straight. By "bfeeding" you mean "breast feeding" and pictures of this are prohibited on Facebook? Seriously? - jojo, adventurer

Facebook has creeped me out ever since I saw transcripts of their Dear Leader's non-interview @ SXSW. That obviously had a lot circuits crossed regarding what is and isn't right, what is and isn't good. - Matthew DeVries

yes. it's a if you show any nip or areola while in process it's 'obscene' ...but they allow hate groups. Feeding my kid is obscene to those frat boys though - Erin @queenofspain

It's a good thing they removed all those breastfeeding pics. Think how offensive that would be for all those hate groups to look at those babies nursing! - Trish R

I doubt any of the members of those hate groups were breastfed. ;) - Rochelle

But that's ridiculous ... I was unaware of that. How is that obscene? Does it apply to shirtless men? Artistic nudes? Details of the Birth of Venus? (Note I don't use the thing, so I don't know what it looks like or what sorts of things one posts there) Hate groups aside, that's a bit shocking to me. I'm not a mother so maybe I'm talking out of my hind end, but isn't breastfeeding sort of a treasured thing for some people? - jojo, adventurer

Well, the real question is, why did the debate over this die? Why was it a story for a day and then gone? Why aren't all of you pushing the people you know in your lives who have often audiences with zukerberg et al to make it their only question for him? - Matthew DeVries

Matthew we've been pushing it for a very long time. There are months upon months of blog posts. Videos. Letters. Emails. It never died. It seems the digirati has now jumped on it now that it's hit the news that facebook allows a group that denies the holocaust - Erin @queenofspain

Matthew, are you directing that to Erin or to other people with the same opinion as her? I certainly don't have an audience with the Facebook guys (or have people in my life who do). - Rochelle

I know we all as a group on Friendfeed have the ear of people who will sit in a room with zukerberg some time this year. We need to convince those people that this is their only question for him, let him babble about features and roll outs and such, but their only retort is about the breastfeeding groups and allowing the hate groups. - Matthew DeVries

Every time Scoble talks to him I've asked him to ask the breastfeeding question. - Erin @queenofspain

I even ran into that SXSW late (and breathless) from the airport to ask it, but didn't get called on at that keynote - Erin @queenofspain

the battle continues...however I'd like to see a bit more respect from the digirti for the moms they so love to pick on as irrelevant - Erin @queenofspain

Well, the next time Scoble posts one of his "I'm on my way to meet X at X what should I ask" I'll put this as one of the things, as should us all. He should ask this of everyone in tech, not just Zuckerberg. - Matthew DeVries

Scoble, and everyone else who follows us who reports and gets to go to these demos, should get comments from everyone who has designs on social media. How they feel about this issue, and how they feel about how Facebook is dealing with it. - Matthew DeVries

I can't hate on moms, I have one. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Tech reporting however, is a lot like sports reporting. It's full of people who love the field and the toys and talking about the toys so much, they really don't have the ability or training to understand what they do in the context of the rest of the world. This is why it took true investigative journalists to write Book of Shadows, because sports reporters just don't know how to really report anything. - Matthew DeVries

The fact that no one outside of a certain group knows about this issue answers your question. No one cared until it was an issue that interested them or they were passionate about, OR someone who they listen to spoke up about it. - Trish R

Trish: I made noise about the breastfeeding issue. - Robert Scoble

Facebook has been messed up on these issues for sometime and I do ask but don't get satisfactory answers. - Robert Scoble

I disagree Trish - The issue was widely and appropriately covered, in the week it happened. It was on every tech show, it was on NPR, Daily Show, News shows, not the Sunday Shows though, but everywhere else. But there was no resolution offered by facebook, and the coverage didn't continue. It was not pressed by the news after that initial week. It's that among many other things why I'm... more... - Matthew DeVries

Robert, could you team up with a hardcore investigative reporter? Where you could talk the talk, and she/he would figure out how to drag the truth out of them? - Matthew DeVries

Robert, I know you talked about it when it happened. However, Matthew asked why people weren't still talking about it. That's why. People are no longer interested in the issue and it received no coverage because it was no longer a hot topic for the MSM, or anyone outside of the women online who brought attention to it in the first place. People are now surprised because a hate group is... more... - Trish R

I'm really not concerned about the Holocaust denial group. It's a bigger outrage that the mothers were ran than the Holocaust deniers getting to stay. - Matthew DeVries

Matthew, I agree. I fully support the crazies to get to stay, as long as the crazy breastfeeding mothers can have their group, too, and post their pictures. It doesn't say much for the logic and reasoning of anyone over there, in my opinion. - Trish R

Considering that the number of rational people on the internet willing to become vocal about something they care about is tiny compared to the number of irrational lunatics doing it for the lulz...This makes perfect sense. I hope the breastfeeding mothers went and set up a nice ning site or something. Facebook doesn't deserve the traffic. - Justin Hopkins

I'm still angry about it and Facebook is still a bunch of idiots, but understand my reason for tonight's post was because I see the 'Gilmore Gang' types outraged. Many of them (robert not included) regularly mock my community. This was just my way of going 'uh huh, welcome' ;) - Erin @queenofspain

It makes no sense to categorize breastfeeding as obscene. So FB should be taken to task. The tough part about the debate and leaning on the legal angles of this and the hate groups issue, is that in the US hate speech is not a functioning legal concept (however, defamation and the immanent inciting of a riot can be a basis of speech restriction). Other countries, Canada for instance... more... - Micah Wittman

so Karoli just showed me http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... and I'm going to faint now - Erin @queenofspain

Erin, my favorite comment from that post is "Breastfeeding is used for 6 months per baby". Uh, really? So at 6 months and 1 day, I have to stop feeding my baby? - Rochelle

Rochelle the amount of times I have shaken my head at ignorance tonight is starting to give me whiplash - Erin @queenofspain

Here's the thing...how self serving is this sudden interest in facebook's morality? Do they REALLY give a shit? Or have they finally found something worth turning on Zuckerberg for? Even though it all existed long ago...and they just ignored it. WHY NOW? - Erin @queenofspain

Matthew: the real answer is the company is run by a bunch of young people who make stupid decisions and are winning anyway. No amount of pressing will get a good answer. Why the hell do you think I have pushed friendfeed so hard? - Robert Scoble

erin you're way out of line there. Try being specific about your comment regarding regularly mocking. - Steve Gillmor

Steve right now one of the more vocal gang members is all over twitter calling for facebook's head. Same one who called us horny housewives with nothing better to do. Others belittle the community by failing to recognize it even exists. I don't think it's a big secret some of the regulars look down on mommybloggers. - Erin @queenofspain

Whatever the past issues are here, I think that Mike Arrington is right about the inconsistency in the application of Facebook's TOS. That section 3 is a catch-all. We wrestled with the holocaust deniers on CNN, too, years ago, because holocaust denial doesn't technically fall into the hate speech category. But Facebook's language is broader, calls for banning for hateful speech, which... more... - Karoli

Absolutely. Facebook is going to need to man-up very soon here. - Erin @queenofspain

I'm also going to disagree with you about saying the GG regulars mock your community. They don't. Having spent nearly a year on NGL with Steve, I will unequivocally stand by his commitment to free speech on all sides, not just one or the other. The one who you take issue with is not most commonly associated with GG. :) - Karoli

I don't know who you're referring to, but I have nothing but respect and admiration for mommybloggers and anybody who stands up for hypocrisy on any issue. I've never expressed anything other than that publicly or privately. - Steve Gillmor

The irony I saw in the post was the hypocrisy between how *Facebook* treated mommybloggers and how they were turning a blind eye to far, far more offensive practices. Hard to understand how breastfeeding is a violation of their TOS but spouting provable outright lies in an effort to offend and alienate another worldwide community is something they turn their head away from. Reading this... more... - Karoli

Karoli it's my understanding there is a difference between the show with you all and the show with Feldman and Calacanis, etc? Steve While you and Robert may be supportive, the majority of that group has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. And Karoli I really enjoyed your post this morning http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009... - Erin @queenofspain

Erin-You do much painting with a broad brush? - Jim Posner

Jim clearly I am mistaken and the leaders in this space have been nothing but supportive of women bloggers, in particular, mommybloggers. In fact I must be imagining the need for community like, say, BlogHer and places like tech crunch must chronicle the significant advances of these communities just like they chronicle all the others in this space. I bet you there are significant... more... - Erin @queenofspain

Read Erin's blog, articles, basically anything with context she's typed or said and the finer points are detailed quite well. - Michael W. May

Way to do your homework Jim and totally not make an ass of yourself and cement yourself as a lazy troll - Matthew DeVries

Regardless of any history I may or may not be making up...the fact remains this issue was brought to light in 2007. THese hate groups existed on facebook in 2007 and the screams from myself and others were ignored. Why did places like TechCrunch contain their outrage in 2007? Were these groups just fine with them in 2007? What I want to know is what changed between 2007 and 2009 and why. I'm thrilled, don't get me wrong, but there's more to this. - Erin @queenofspain

The hate groups on FB issue is being discussed now because Mark Cuban has made noise about it. - Trish R

I stand by my assertion that Tech reporters like Techcrunch and Engadget and TWiT and Teckzilla are not real reporters, they're Sports reporters of the internet. Sports reporters do not probe, sports reporters report, and speculate and just really play. They're sports fans themselves, they love being at the park and getting to watch games and be part of the culture. Tech reporters are... more... - Matthew DeVries

I also think facebook has fallen out of favor with that crowd for more than just 'moral' issues...there are rumors of financial issues as well - Erin @queenofspain

but what the hell do I know...just a Mommyblogger who can't possibly have any VC info ;) - Erin @queenofspain

Official statement: For the record I am very much in favor of mommies, babies, breast feeding, and unicorns. I'd also like to take this time to point out I'm against nazis and mean people. That is all. - Jason Calacanis

and as someone in a position to do something about it you are going to........ - Matthew DeVries

You mean in my official role as Chairman of the Internet what am I going to do? You have to understand that as the Chairman of the Internet I can not make sweeping policy changes. I can bring up important discussions like this and foster debate... I will do that on This Week in Startups today in fact. www.thisweekinstartups.com :-) - Jason Calacanis

That's not condescending at all. - Trish R

Erin, glad you enjoyed the post. Yes they are different groups but my point was that it wasn't the Gillmor Gang people that should be the target...if you go back to 2007 you'll see that Duncan Riley did blog it. Unfortunately...and this was the source of my aggravation in my post and also in general, it seemed less important to anyone that Facebook was being arbitrary and absurd at the... more... - Karoli

.... OK, it's true. As Chairman of the Internet I can make sweeping changes I just try not to do that to often. In this case I can shut down a couple of dozen Facebook servers and reroute the emails of hate speech idiots through the My Little Pony translation filter... that should get them! - Jason Calacanis

Actually, LOL it was kind of a smooth move, cause I just may traffic to his show. Well played Jason. - Matthew DeVries

But as a Poker God Jason, you know the power of the big stack. Your stack is much bigger than mine. Your rhetoric can force someone to fold, when calling against mine is no risk. - Matthew DeVries

BTW: Facebook is a private company... they are allowed to do really stupid things like ban pictures of boobies while allowing Nazis to roam free. They'll reverse their position in about 9 days if you guys keep it up. I suggest creating a website called zuckerberghatesmommiesandlovesnazis.com and posting your position there and ask people to create youTube videos with a specific script:... more... - Jason Calacanis

WEB2.0 ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: You have been roughly dismissed directly by Jason Calacanis himself! - Matthew DeVries

Seriously people.... bring your A game. If you're going to chase windmills do it right with a fun meme/theme/catchphrase http://tinyurl.com/faceboo... - Jason Calacanis

Jason, yes. But let's be real here. The voices that get their attention are the geek voices, still. I've already made my statement -- I call for a boycott of FB until they put their act together and get consistent with their policies on these matters. What Erin is saying is...let's be as vocal about the mommybloggers as the Jewish folks. The principle is the same, whether it's breasts or beastliness. - Karoli

Karoli: If you want to stop Facebook it's really simple as I've explained: 1. put up an absurd sounding domain name (i.e. Facebooklovesnazishatesmommies.com), 2. write a press release explaining your position and send to a $100 press release service and 3. forward it to 10 media outlets with a link to a youtube video with folks explaining the issue. Now you're done. Facebook will be... more... - Jason Calacanis

Jason: Agreed. on all counts. Will start a collection at once to cover expenses. Being unemployed limits resources for justifiable and reasonable protests. :) - Karoli

Power of the big stack - Matthew DeVries

You don't need more than $8 to register a domain name and the press release can be sent by hand. If you can't raise $8 your cause is not worth fighting for.... good luck. - Jason Calacanis

lol...that was sarcasm. - Karoli

at the time facebook was seen as a passing trend and its issues received less scrutiny than they do today - Mike Chelen

Also, this hate speech issue has been going on forever.... bigcos have a really hard time with this one: http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/060523-... http://newsbusters.org/node... http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanag... - Jason Calacanis

Jason, as i mentioned in my blog post, we wrestled with this at CNN interactive back in 1995. The answer for us was to be consistent. That's the basic lesson FB hasn't learned. - Karoli

But you're right on the correct way to address it. Put non-Facebook endorsed pages behind "This shit is for real, wear a cup" dialogue and just let it all be there. - Matthew DeVries

Wow. You guys have been busy while I took some calls. Facebook needs to grow up, period. They can't move forward sticking their head in the sand on some issues and then acting the moral police on others. Jason putting aside your feelings on the mom community for a minute, my bigger point is that we were screaming about these groups (and pro-anorexia groups and other racist hate groups)... more... - Erin @queenofspain

erin sliming people who are supportive of you is not a boost to your credibility. - Steve Gillmor

Steve is right... there is not need to attack the geeks. unless of course you're link baiting to get the Geek A List to pay attention. in that case, linkbait on! - Jason Calacanis

Erin, censorship of user content is unacceptable in either case however the solution of ceasing to use facebook now seems less viable - Mike Chelen

Pointing out how people slime themselves is not sliming them. Don't shoot the messenger nor the person asking the how and why questions beyond the press release smile. - Michael W. May

Steve do you even see the belittling of the moms in this thread? You guys do it so freaking casually you don't even notice. And I'm not 'attacking' the geeks. I'm kicking and screaming until they freaking pay attention to stuff I've been talking about for years. And NONE Of this still answers my question. When did Zuckerberg fall out of the geek club and why? - Erin @queenofspain

Steve - "Supportive" is not a subjective title you can just throw on yourself because it's something you think that you are. You need to actually support someone to claim that title. - Matthew DeVries

And if you want to let Feldman and the like continue to call us names and hang out on your show...so be it. But don't go accusing me of sliming anyone when all I am doing is point out the obvious - Erin @queenofspain

Matthew I don't need a lecture from you about my beliefs - Steve Gillmor

Erin: he fell out because he became popular. - Robert Scoble

Matthew I can honestly say Steve and Robert have been supportive of our community. The rest are...questionable. - Erin @queenofspain

Thank you Robert. - Erin @queenofspain

Erin, I don't see why it matters whether or why Zuckerberg isn't one of the geek club guys. I honestly never thought he was. Facebook is a player in the socnet political landscape -- a MAJOR player. But I never saw Zuckerberg as one of the cool kids. just the dude back there grinding FB toward the fore. - Karoli

Erin your comments about me and my show are inappropriate and untrue, but if you need to continue them please know that the diminish your credibility. - Steve Gillmor

But you can back it up with numbers. You've had what 20 discussions about something as inane as Twitter's blocking of Track, but 1 conversation in one show on something important to society itself like this? - Matthew DeVries

For thousands of years man has ruled the earth (or at least they like to think so). Women are just getting up to speed for the last 50yrs or so. It's a dismally slow process and fascinating the way that men don't see even their common behaviors are sexist tinged. Ack, I'm channeling my wife. - Ryan Stanley

Karoli I ask because there is an unspoken silicon valley 'look the other way' syndrome. And I'm more curious as a bystander how Zuckerberg fell out of favor because of the grumblings of facebook's $$ trouble. Wondering if they are connected. But it's nothing more than curiosity. Thinking about it they do seem to turn on one another from time to time as the cycle dictates. - Erin @queenofspain

As for Steve, I'm not sure which comments you are referring to. But am curious how my challenges to 'digirati' translate into anything more than that...challenges. And Jason, I'm not making any money of this friend feed discussion so there is no link baiting here. Just a simple discussion that I think needs to be had,and am having with you all. But forgive me while I go back to my land... more... - Erin @queenofspain

and BTW...I do think Jason is RIGHT in his solutions - Erin @queenofspain

Link baiting is used just to get more eyeballs, which yes, can translate into money. A sensational URL to information regarding the issue would get plenty of eyeballs. I think that is all Jason was trying to point out. - Ryan

the only URL i sent out was tech crunch and Karoli Ryan. My point was this isn't about me or link baiting. It's about finally tackling some of this stuff that's been festering. - Erin @queenofspain

a) the freedom of speech vs. TOS vs. policing your space issues are HUGE. b) the women on the net vs. men on the net is nothing new but it never hurts to re-address it. - Erin @queenofspain

I understand that you haven't done any link baiting yet, but if you follow Jason's idea and come up with something sensational you may get more people to jump on board and take actions which will produce results. - Ryan

well I flashed my tits with the tit brigade years ago to get their attention. rofl. boobies bad! nazi's good! might be a nice t-shirt for them all now. lol - Erin @queenofspain

Pushing this to Best of Day is useful too. - Matthew DeVries

OK, Erin has me thinking about why the "boys" didn't get too excited before. First of all, I specifically remember Leo Laporte and others talking about this issue before. So did I. But it died quickly in the tech blogosphere. Why? Well, most of our audience is male. So we didn't get the comments, the inbound links, the techmeme front page, etc that we need to keep something going. Compare to talking about Twitter, for instance. Arrington got hundreds of comments on a post that only had one word: Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Other reason? The story wasn't that interesting when it was just lactating mothers. Sorry, it wasn't. But now that they let Jew haters survive? Now the original story is a LOT more interesting because now there's an inconsistency in policy we can go after. - Robert Scoble

See, when it was lactating moms, Facebook could give us a PR answer and we'd either have to accept it or go nuts about it, but there really wasn't much we could do about it. Now that they are allowing Jew haters we see that their policy is fucked and we can just make the whole company realize that their policy is stupid and lame and looks like it was designed by 20-year-olds, which it was. - Robert Scoble

I agree Robert. It got hit on very quickly and then was dismissed. And while we pointed out those hate groups while we were upset about the photo issue, no one (including the moms) really latched on (no pun intended) to the 'hate group' issue as hard as we should have. it was a main talking point when we spoke to media, etc, but it wasn't the lasting one. Now I'm wondering why it wasn't lasting. - Erin @queenofspain

Except they had hate groups then; it was part of the issues raised then. It is why this is in the realm of hypocrisy as well as no equal footing. - Michael W. May

It true Michael. We actually shed light on the racist, and pro annorexia groups while blogging it - Erin @queenofspain

Michael: well, some stories evolve and our understanding of them evolve too. We're human, we don't always see the best story at first and we don't always understand the best way to get our audience engaged. - Robert Scoble

I'm not pointing fingers, I'm speaking to the general facts of the matter. - Michael W. May

When I visit Facebook the place is full of 20-something males. Getting them to understand why banning breast feeding photos is wrong is very tough. It has nothing to do with investigative reporting, either. It has to do with a culture that's really not thought through very well. I keep getting emails from people who get kicked off of Facebook for the stupidest reasons. I've tried to get... more... - Robert Scoble

There is plenty of blame to go around to everyone for letting Facebook's leadership not get that their leadership really sucks in places. It's hard to argue with success, too. So they can keep sweeping these issues under the rug because they are growing so fast. But someday they will start sticking. - Robert Scoble

Do mommy bloggers talk about this: http://scobleizer.com/2008... -- if not, they should not be throwing rocks in my direction. By the way, I'm a lactivist and have been since 9/15/2007: http://scobleizer.com/2007... - Robert Scoble

1UP, Robert. I like that 9/15 post. - Rochelle

Rochelle: that's why the whole point of this post was unfair. There were plenty of boys making trouble for Facebook since 2007 about issues like these. But notice how few comments I got on that post (there are more than twice as many comments on this one). That tells other bloggers to avoid the issue cause no one cared. And Erin should have done her homework before throwing EVERYONE in the tech blogosphere under her broad brush. - Robert Scoble

Robert, or do they just disagree with you and didn't comment to say so? I don't know if your readers would generally comment on something they disagree with to voice that opinion or just move along and ignore the post completely. - Rochelle

Robert I disagree for a few reasons. You said yourself the tech blogosphere is 20 something males who aren't going to understand why it's important. Of course they aren't going to comment or care about the issue if when it's covered as a whole you get the Digg level of discourse going on in comments (see Karoli's post) and many of the leaders of the tech blogosphere belittle or all out ignore that half of the web. - Erin @queenofspain

Just because your audience doesn't care about it, or want to hear about it, doesn't mean it's not an important fight to have. See Murrow v. McCarthy. No one wanted him to have that fight. I'm not saying that you should be the one having this fight for Erin Robert, just that a lack of audience doesn't justify a lack of work on the subject. And you did do your due diligence on it. - Matthew DeVries

Robert: this was the point of my post. I pulled up the Techcrunch post about the FB ban on boobs and it was loaded with nasty, teenage, vile sexist comments. Why not take that on as part of the larger issue? The gender bias dripped out of those comments. It wasn't up to Mike to remove them; it was up to the larger community to refute them, reject that attitude out of hand. - Karoli

Karoli: I have taken that issue on too, but fixing that is beyond the scope of what I usually do. I have fixed it by pushing systems like friendfeed where if you want to be an asshole you can easily be removed from the conversation. The problem with the Internet is that it makes everyone look equal. Truth is most people (999 out of 1000) will be nice and don't have attitudes like those. Having commenting systems like the one Techcrunch (and I) use are corrosive on our beliefs about our fellow citizens. - Robert Scoble

Notice that we haven't seen those kinds of behaviors here on friendfeed yet. Why not? Easy: I would block someone in an instant if they behaved like that, which would shun them out of the group and give those who have rational beliefs a better chance to get heard. (And so would you, I hope). - Robert Scoble

Matthew: I have been holding Facebook's feet to the fire for quite a while on these issues. Remember that I got kicked off of the system too. But changing policies and cultures is tough work, especially when you are not inside. - Robert Scoble

I also think the issue isn't which topic is important and which one isn't, but that Facebook is inconsistent and hypocritical in enforcing its TOS (or just its own opinions on what belongs there and what doesn't). It's not a "lactating moms vs the nazis" battle on which issue is more important. I think the goal now is for everyone to point out those inconsistencies and bring as much... more... - Trish R

Robert: I agree. It's enormously frustrating to me that Techmeme's algos are so man-centered, too. it would be nice to have a broader group of voices speaking, and I recognize that you have used other avenues to get your message out. We just need about a thousand Robert and Steve voices rising with the mommybloggers and other interested parties. - Karoli

I also think the reason the breastfeeding mothers issue did not get as much attention and died out as quickly as it did was because people outside that group just aren't interested. 20-something males are going to poke fun at it and joke about it, as well as make rude comments. It's not only a women's issue, but it's a "sub-issue" within a women's issue, because it's a select group --... more... - Trish R

Trish, only if it's framed that way. The real issue wasn't breastfeeding, it was censorship, something that 20-something males loathe. Not to mention older ones. and women. - Karoli

Robert has taken on that issue. But the point is that community, as has been widely demonstrated (save a few ROberts and Steves) ignores my half of the community. And my little tweet here that has turned into this discussion on friendfeed was just another example to me of why it's dangerous to dismiss and/or ignore what we're up to. Trust me, I don't enjoy spending parts of my day paying attention to all the tech fodder, but I *have* to because it's in my space. Just as we are in theirs. - Erin @queenofspain

Newsweek had this recent article on Facebook's police: http://www.newsweek.com/id... - Maurice

And just to be clear. I think my 'broad brush' is relatively fair. There is a Robert and a Steve and a few others I can count on one hand. The majority, as evidenced by the comments on the techcrunch post and across other spots in the web, are clearly not the demographic but clearly not respectful of the demographic...at all. And yes, the main point of all this is Facebook can #suckit! - Erin @queenofspain

Thanks Maurice. I hadn't seen that facebook article - Erin @queenofspain

Trish, I think it's all of that plus the fact that a lot of males (edited to add that this doesn't apply jut to males but to uninformed females as well) do not understand breastfeeding. There was a comment on a TechCrunch post (I mentioned it earlier in this discussion) where someone said that breastfeeding is only for 6 months. That kind of lack of basic knowledge about lactation is, I think, a major root of the problem. - Rochelle

Karoli, I agree, but not enough people saw past the surface to what the issue really was, they were too busy poking fun and making jokes about the breastfeeding pictures. We all have to look outside our own subcultures on the internet to keep the attention focused on these problems. What always annoys me is that women who happen to be mothers and also blog are stuck in this category and... more... - Trish R

For the goofs who commented in the TechCruch thread, the whole question is clearly strictly academic. I'm thinking there's zero first-hand experience, there, and little wonder. - Kathy Fitch

Rochelle, I saw that comment, too, and it was made by someone with the ID "feminist." I wondered about that, too. I don't think it's as much that they don't understand breastfeeding, it's that they're just not interested, don't want to discuss it, and a lot of times, it makes them feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. - Trish R

if this is an issue of women vs. men on the interwebs I'd like to state right now that I vote for unicorns. - Jason Calacanis

Jason: not sure it's a VERSUS issue. I think it's a question of self-centeredness, frankly. Being focused on the tech stuff to the exclusion of the social was something many boys were and are guilty of. - Karoli

Trish: agreed. It's one of those societal taboos that really isn't good for anyone. Many of those 20-somethings who work at Facebook will eventually be fathers and then the issue will come home in a more clear way. But how many of them will go to a parenting class or have great medical care who'll bring this issue up to them? Not enough. - Robert Scoble

I'd just like to take this moment to inform you all that I am breastfeeding at this VERY SECOND while typing. :D - Rochelle

Karoli: agreed. That's one reason I hated that I was starting to look at my blog as a business. Screw that. If it's a business, though, you'll focus on what makes you money, not on what matters to human condition. There's a deeper problem here: our society/culture pushes males into technology and science roles and doesn't push women so hard into those roles. Until that changes these problems will keep appearing. - Robert Scoble

Rochelle, Don't post a picture or Zuckerberg will stop reading the thread! - Matthew DeVries

Rochelle: Prepare for the onslaught. As soon as the digg boys hear, it'll all be chaos. :) - Karoli

After thinking about this discussion last night and this morning, I'm still puzzled. It seems so simple and so logical that I cannot believe it's even an issue and a problem. This is the immature response, I'm know, but the people over at Facebook are close-minded and uninformed idiots. What they're doing doesn't even make sense. - Trish R

I know very little about the Facebook people, but are any of the higher ups over there mothers? - Rochelle

Trish R - there's a comment on my post here http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009... that analyzes it quite accurately. - Karoli

If Jason and I can come to terms on a unicorn/tech peace accord there might be hope for humanity yet - Erin @queenofspain

Karoli, agreed the issues are censorship and user rights which are equally important regardless of demographic - Mike Chelen

Erin, I've embedded these comments into my post so the whole picture is in one place. #facebookhatesmommieslovesnazis - Karoli

thanks Karoli. I'll be writing the whole thing up for BlogHer tonight so feel free to keep shooting links my way - Erin @queenofspain

I'm looking forward to it, Erin! - Rochelle

Rochelle - Please tell me that you meant that you were nursing, and Audrey was breast feeding. Otherwise.....your poor poor poor mother..... - Matthew DeVries

Matthew, yes, but I think it's correct to say that I was breastfeeding (her), too. - Rochelle

The guys are always late...... - Roberto Bonini

Thomas Hawk just linked to a Facebook hate group issue in recent news (in my neck of the woods, no less): "'Kick a Ginger Day' attacks" http://friendfeed.com/thomash... - Micah Wittman

Facebook (like PayPal and some other companies started by 20-somethings) have some really lame policies, and the stories are pretty bad. Yes, some 20-somethings have good ethics and make good decisions, but some are terrible. I just read about some of the most popular fan pages (3+ million users) being arbitrarily deleted. One guy who spent months/years on a page for his soccer idol was... more... - Mitchell Tsai

You'd think men would want to see more free boob on Facebook. - Will Higgins™

I certainly do. :-) - Mathew A. Koeneker

Is frienfeed doing the same kind of censorship? that last 5 posts have failed to bump this to the top of my discussions filter or my main feed. - Matthew DeVries

David Johnson › Likes