David Recordon - Likes

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Facebook, rather than guessing on their own, is opening up the next wave of their Javascript Client libraries as OSS: http://developers.facebook.com/news...

November 5 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

David Recordon liked this

MG Siegler

Would love to pretend this was all me but really it was all @jayzombie

October 31 - Comment - Like - Share

Baboon, Mark Douglass, Paul Stamatiou and 13 other people liked this

ha - sean percival

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Foursquare lets you take photos now? - Michelle McCormack

michelle - only of yourself when you look like the mascot on halloween (ha ha no, that's just my mad photoshop skillz) - MG Siegler

Awesome!! - Andrew

this costume crashes too much - sean percival

This is an awesome photo! I wonder...eerie that they look way too similar. LOL! - Kenneth

thanks kenneth took a few poses to get it just right - MG Siegler

dear lord. that's really good. - Andy Brett

Nice!!! - Garin Kilpatrick

Bret Taylor

My tech talk on Tornado (video and slides) - http://bret.appspot.com/entry...

September 24 from Bret Taylor's blog - Comment - Like - Share

Evil kostoprav, Agustín Méndez, ǝuǝƃnǝ and 58 other people liked this

Also started a Hacker News discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item... - Bret Taylor

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Bret, sorry for the laziness, but what license is the tornado source under? - Cristo

Cristo: Apache Version 2 - Bret Taylor

Excellent. :) - Cristo

It says "video unavailable": this video has been removed from facebook or is not visible due to privacy settings (damn use youtube pls, wtf is fb) thank god slideshare works. - Ahmet Alp Balkan

hola¡¡¡ como estas? - pamela

I wanna be tornado-ized - Nicola Greco

Why do I get video not available, does anybody have any opinion ? - Onur Gündüz

Great talk! Thanks! - Diego Barros 

Hi Bret, we are looking for a technical keynote for Facebook Garage in Montreal October 26th could you come by and give us a Tornado/Realtime-web talk? Or recommend a speaker from Facebook/Friendfeed? I know this is a long shot, but I figured asking you on FriendFeed was the best "context" to reach you about this... - Sylvain Carle

Blaine Cook

rssCloud and rssDNS considered harmful. Please avoid at all costs.

September 21 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

David Recordon, Rogers Cadenhead, scott anderson and 5 other people liked this

Why? - Adewale Oshineye from iPhone

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It's one guy promoting insecure protocols to drive his own ego and distracting from useful work. I'd love to say his heart is in the right place, but his work will just lead to fragmentation of the space, just like it did with RSS / Atom. - Blaine Cook

rssDNS is vastly inferior to webfinger, and rssCloud is vastly inferior to PSHB. - Blaine Cook

rssDNS looks like a less-featureful re-implementation of <link rel="alternate"> to me. I'm not sure what he was going for with that one (obviating FeedBurner?), but it doesn't seem to solve anything. - Matt Mastracci

He's trying to do a winer-branded webfinger. DNS for people. The next few posts will discuss adding profile information to the dns lookup, if he's paying attention, but the approach is broken from the start. - Blaine Cook

The whole thing is pretty amusing. He added the A record to the TXT record so it would resolve in the browser as a 302 redirect. He's invented subdomains that redirect to your real feed's address (aka mod_rewrite). - Matt Mastracci

Edit: ah, i misread and misunderstood what he was doing. He wants to have RSS discoverable via DNS. That's... odd. But not as crazy as my initial impression. - Mark Trapp

Heh. From http://www.scripting.com/stories... : "Then I thought -- wait a minute, what's to stop me from also registering an A record that points back to me, and then keeping a database locally that associates a name with an RSS URL." So... virtual hosting? - Mark Trapp

Yeah, or mod_rewrite (this is basically the rule I've used for my own website for a while): RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^rss.example.com$ RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://feeds2.feedburner.com/example [R,L] - Matt Mastracci

That's true, you wouldn't even need to use virtual hosting. Sometimes I wonder; if it's this obvious and easy but there's so much todo being made about it, is there something that's right there that I can't see because I'm not in the right dimension? Like ghosts or the Phantom Zone from Superman II. - Mark Trapp

It's obvious and easy, but not useful for decentralized social messaging, and my worry is that it'll add (pointless) confusion to an emerging space. - Blaine Cook

Brad Fitzpatrick

On PubSubHubbub and rssCloud ... http://brad.livejournal.com/2405147... *sigh*

September 15 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

David Recordon, Sebastian, Ken Sheppardson and 11 other people liked this

Bret Taylor to Bret's feed, FriendFeed News

The technology behind Tornado, FriendFeed's web server - Bret Taylor's blog - http://bret.appspot.com/entry...

September 10 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Bryan Tsai, Sebastian, Thierry R. Andriamirado and 292 other people liked this

We have open sourced our web server. Download it at http://www.tornadoweb.org/. Check out the Facebook announcement at http://developers.facebook.com/news... - Bret Taylor from Bookmarklet

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See a live chat demo: http://chan.friendfeed.com:8888/ - Casey Muller

*have no idea what I am looking at* - Joe

Wow! Thanks so much, Bret and co! - Doug

this was very interesting; good job - RAPatton

neat - anna sauce

I wonder what the engineering decision was to not use a WSGI interface. - mikepk

mikepk: it supports WSGI, but it is not WSGI by default because WSGI does not support non-blocking I/O for things like hanging connections. See http://www.tornadoweb.org/documen.... - Bret Taylor

This actually is a very good piece of code! Thanks folks! - directeur

cool, Bret, thanks :) I was just heading through the docs now. - mikepk

Thanks for doing this, Bret! That's some pretty cool stuff. - Keith Bourgoin

that's great. thanks.. - Onur Gündüz

oh man, this is so awesome, thanks guys! - Charles Ying

Is "tonado" a typo? - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

I'm hacking my own python web framework at the moment, so now the choice on whether I want to switch gears to this or not. I'm liking what I see so far. - mikepk

Bruce: Yes - Casey Muller

Wow.. Thanks!! pretty much makes my day.. which is scary in it's own rite. - Chris Myles

Great news! Cheers to the FF team! - Egon Willighagen

Nice new title Brett.."Facebook Director of Products".. a good sign of things to come! - Chris Myles

very very glad to hear this bit: "Tornado is a core piece of infrastructure that powers FriendFeed's real-time functionality, which we plan to actively maintain." - Chris Heath

Great work - James Myatt

does this have any implications for friendfeed.com in terms of competition and shelf-life? - Franz Sittampalam

Franz: enables widespread adoption which leads to greater influence of the technique - Mike Chelen

So excited this is out. So many personal projects I have been wanting to build with it :) - Bret Taylor

Bret, do you have a set of coding conventions you use? E.g. looks like you use mixed case for classes and underbar separators for methods. - Cristo

Fantastic, Bret (and team)! - Micah Wittman

A very good project!...you know if will be possibile to use Tornado with other technogies except Python (such as JEE, Ruby On Rails, etc.)? - Nicola Junior Vitto

Cristo: we tried to use the official Python coding conventions, though we may have inadvertently strayed. Those conventions are: ClassNames, method_names, variable_names - Bret Taylor

Brilliant! I hope you can provide very valuable input for the next round of #python WSGI, which desperately needs a next round ;) - Uche Ogbuji

Re: WSGI needing help, see http://www.b-list.org/weblog... - Uche Ogbuji

grt - Xitong Liu

"Facebook's opensource technologies" link is broken on tornadoweb.org .. - Onur Gündüz

Onur, worked for me - and still works now - Chris Heath

Very cool, in case someone needs a high-end Web Server for a project, FriendFeed just open-sourced theirs, & apparently, it screams.. - Alex Schleber

Nicola: there is a Ruby example - http://gist.github.com/184760 - Mike Chelen

thx Mike, but this is a kind of eventmachine (that sounds good) for Ruby, not a Tornado client or wrapper...isn't it? - Nicola Junior Vitto

Excellent! Thank you. Was eagerly waiting for the day to come after looking this just 1 month ago; "changeset: 5afb8a445cad / date: 2009-08-11 16:34:48 / description: Initial open source packages" http://changelog.friendfeed.com/2009... - NaHi from f2p

Chris, yes it is fixed.. I swear it was broken .. - Onur Gündüz

Good catch, NaHi. :) - Micah Wittman

Thanks guys. Really appriciated. - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

That's great. thanks Bret :-) - Nimaa

Nice job on the non-blocking stuff Bret! - Mitchell Tsai

"We have open sourced our web server" @bret took over a year but is worth the wait. thx for the follow through ~ http://bret.appspot.com/entry... - Peter Renshaw

Ohhh, ummm, btw, your underhanded behind the scenes sell out still rankles my human decency, & a lot of others too, as should yours...thumbs down/dislike x 47.5 million dollars, however not being bitter of course, keep ignorance & bliss - sofarsoShawn

As I expected :) brilliant - FFTornado

that's the sound of I believe 100000000? or so hands clapping...& giving you the BOOOO-URNS if I'm not mistaken... - sofarsoShawn

oh you sonsabitchez this fscking rules! why so badass, ff? thank. you. :) - mike

So, can we say; Python is the future? - Ozkan Altuner

Nice code. Started to look at it today. Thanks for doing this. Now to start testing this on some projects I had been working on. - Altan Khendup

What OS do you guys run FF on? - Diego Barros 

Diego: we run on Linux. - Bret Taylor from email

@bret just out of curiosity - what would necessitate usage of such an engine for a *personal* project? :) - Michael Bravo

Michael: it is a nice framework to use for any project in my opinion (though I am clearly biased). If you are doing anything real-time like the chat demo, something like Tornado is certainly necessary/useful regardless of the size of the project. - Bret Taylor from email

@bret and for little-sized hardware? should have try it on Maemo based :))) - A.T.

@silpol I kinda fail to see Maemo devices being used for servers (unless it's some kind of satellite-based or other covert server maybe :) ) - Michael Bravo from IM

@mbravo you never know... there are some unusual (and cool) apps for web servers, granted you abstain (on purpose) from classical models, e.g.server farm somewhere there and herds of clients connecting to it... - A.T.

Bret: Cool, thanks. Just out of curiosity, which flavour of Linux is preferred by FriendFeed? - Diego Barros 

I think this is the best answer for the ultimate question: "Does python needs yet another web framework?" While most of us would say why, when one come across this, a real world proven technology, serving zillions of pages a day, one would say, well, why not. actually, why not even take it an try to integrate out next web app with it? great job! seems like joining FB won't do you any harm ;-) - Tzury Bar Yochay

We've seen tornado vs twisted, how about tornado vs rails? http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Tzury Bar Yochay

http://chan.friendfeed.com:8888/ It doesn't work. I'd like to see chat.js :) - Анатолий Шарифулин

FriendFeed's web server, open sourced? This is great! Welcoome, Tornado! - Thierry R. Andriamirado

Bret: how do you proxy long-living connections through nginx? Vanilla nginx buffers everything. - Alex Kapranoff

nginx has a configuration option to turn off buffering. - Tristan Seligmann

Robert Scoble

Secret stuff the FriendFeed team has been up to at Facebook (Tornado, real time framework). Just released:

September 10 - Comment - Like - Share

Stephen Edgar, Daniel Rowley, John Field and 51 other people liked this

From: http://twitter.com/fbplatform Tornado: Facebook's Real-Time Web Framework for Python http://developers.facebook.com/news... - Robert Scoble

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Check out blog from Bret Taylor: http://bret.appspot.com/entry... - Robert Scoble

That's really exciting news - Jesse Stay

I deleted some comments to keep this on discussions about Facebook's new Real Time Framework. - Robert Scoble

Do I need a Facebook account to use this? I deactivated mine last year, still resisting reactivating - Aaman (Clone of FF)

More over on Bret Taylor's FriendFeed about this: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Robert Scoble

thanks! great! - Harold Cabezas

Sounds nice, i'm out to read the documentation :) - Diego Sana

Oh yummy.... - #alaskareport

Are developers racing to get all of this established before Google Wave launches, or would they be developing it anyway? It's all changing so fast now, this Granny can't keep up with it all, (and I am still waiting for Facebook Lite to be available here in UK. I hate and detest those blasted applications!) - Sandra Large

Matt Cutts

Congrats to Paul, Bret, and the whole FriendFeed gang. But I hope you bring a big shot of openness into the Facebook ecosystem, because it doesn't feel that way right now.

August 10 - Comment - Like - Share

TheHenry, Misha, Eric Johnson and 128 other people liked this

Exactly. - EricaJoy

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Very sad day I think. - Travis Koger

Congrats! - Daniel Brusilovsky

+100 Matt - Jorge Escobar

congrats indeed, but damn, this seems like it's going to be bad :( - acedanger

exactly - mike "glemak" dunn

NO Congrats or whatsoever "to Paul, Bret, and the whole FriendFeed gang. But I hope you bring a big shot of openness into the Facebook ecosystem, because it doesn't feel that way right now." Matt, dear! You Stole My Words! ROFL :)))) Just curious - is there anything more important than money? It seems NOT ROFLMAO - Lora Lufark

lots of truthiness in that statement. - Sushubh

I am sad. No congratulation at all. - bellegarde-webb

Besides being closed, Facebook has never adequately addressed serious privacy issues in its past. I strongly distrust them as a company and I'm sad to hear that they're gobbling up a service and a group of people I do trust. But if both services end up being elevated to FriendFeed's high standard then this will be a great day in hindsight. - Doug

Well put doug, I feel same way: I trust FF, I dont trust FB. I'm skeptical this acquisition will change FB enough for me to trust it, but we'll see. - Evan Parker from Android

Facebook is a cult - Joe Dawson

Has anyone got an idea for a friendfeed alternative? - Ru Viljoen

Ru, I think Hellotxt.com might be a decent alternative to Friendfeed (it can also post to Friendfeed for you so you can keep your feed if you wish). I may start using it instead. Not sure. There's also identi.ca which claims to be adding more features for cross-posting. They use the Opensource Laconi.ca platform - PurpleZoe

thx for suggestions but looks like those are both exclusively microblogging platforms. - Ru Viljoen

no congrats, but I agree with the rest. - Kamilah Gill

Identi.ca is mostly a microblog (I hear cross-posting networks should be enabled soon), but Hellotxt.com is a lifestream (you can cross-post and etc across networks) I believe. Unfortunately it's slow at times. I'll miss Friendfeed if it gets sucked into the Facebook network, instead of remaining a stand-alone app. Not at all happy about the acquisition. - PurpleZoe

3 other possibilities: lifestream.fm, Socialthing.com and possibly Streamy.com - PurpleZoe

Now might be a good time for socialthing to exit private beta and enter public - Ru Viljoen

Agreed. - PurpleZoe

Marshall Kirkpatrick

I've written about Twitter passing WSJ/NYT in traffic, how we use Twitter for journalism, Twitter's tech partnerships, Twitter as a world changing technology platform, how Twitter pays my rent, how Twitter can be used for competitive intelligence, I wrote the SHIT out of last week's replies fiasco. Guess how many of 47 Twitter employees follow me.

May 18 - Comment - Like - Share

Kartik Agaram, Iván Abrego, Adam Cohen and 90 other people liked this

2. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

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it's not about me feeling entitled to be followed, almost every person there follows like 150 people. it's about a. whether they use the tool the way many of the rest of us do and thus know how best to use it (there's awesome potential) - Marshall Kirkpatrick

and b. whether they even care. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

I'm feeling sad about the future of twitter b/c I worry that the company is just going to dumb it down for mainstream users when it used to be this huge open platform with SO much potential for innovation. even if they didn't want to use it that way, it's tragic if they muzzle it so that mainstream users don't get scared away. twitter is supposed to be world changing tech, that can be frightening, but it's important - Marshall Kirkpatrick

someone please tell me I'm wrong about this so I can go back to being really excited about Twitter again! - Marshall Kirkpatrick

your wrong* feel better now? ;-)... (*have no idea if you really are wrong btw) - Steve O'Hear

I wish I could. I've been feeling similarly in recent weeks. I've even started to wonder if Twitter Inc understands Twitter. ;) - phil baumann

My guess would be that they way they see it, they have their heads down driving towards ubiquity and establishing Twitter as a standard platform. Building market share, so to speak. Everything that doesn't contribute directly to the number of users on the platform can wait. - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, that sounds accurate and really dangerous. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Ken's probably right. - phil baumann

<snip>use the tool the way many of the rest of us do<snip> This is a common mistake made by first movers and early adopters. The way *we* use it is not the only, best or even most profitable way. Which isn't to suggest they have a plan in place that will work -- simply that basing the assumption on how it is used by a small, tiny sect of the population (the digerati) is not a way to... more... - Brad_King

Marshall. Why don't we all decide to start ignoring them. Maybe that will teach them. They get too much free publicity for a poor job done in the past months ;-) - Alexander van Elsas

Brad, that's a thoughtful comment for sure. To put it in context, though, hiding messages due to fear of information overload **on Twitter** is a clear move away from open, in my mind. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Brad - kinda like duct tape: can be used in ways never originally intended. - phil baumann

do we need to relegate Twitter to the yet-another-mass-market source and find the next thing that allows power-consumers to thrive? I.E. what folks are now using FriendFeed for? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I don't know what Twitter Inc hopes to become. I think it's service would be as facilitator. i just don't know what it should facilitate. So far it looks like they're facilitating things for celebs. - phil baumann

@Marshall: certainly there will be missteps. I am more interested in how they respond and what they do to fix those mistakes. In the dev world, errors happen all the time. HOW they respond to such mistakes, I think, are where we see what will become of Twitter. (And by open, I meant opening the architecture, not open information - I am more concerned by the dearth of usable Twitter applications than the @ fiasco) - Brad_King

Marshall - why does it matter if they follow you? How many of the people who have subscribed to your work, retweeted your tweets, etc. do you follow back? Or are you concerned they aren't even paying attention to what's being written about them? - phil baumann

Brad - good points I think. The response to the @ deal was pretty bad, though. And really, it is a loss of important opportunities to connect with new people on the service. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

They don't use the tool like we do. When the @replies flap happened, I checked @ev and @biz's accounts. Combined they'd only posted three tweets in 24 hours. - Aaron B. Hockley

Hey Marshall, why don't you start by following back the other 7,000 people on your list? yah, there ya go! ;^) - Michael Bailey

Phil, yes that is the case. I'm worried about them not listening to what their community of users says about the service. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

to me it appears that all twitter inc cares about is their exit, not the stability or scalability of their product nor the thoughtful analysis of most anyone interested in offering advice - mike "glemak" dunn

As I understand it, it's as much an engineering issue as it is a marketing/usability one. - Steve O'Hear

Steve, except that a number of the twitter devs also did not know that the @reply change had happened and advocated internally to reverse it - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Marshall, your point is well taken. I'm not adverse to asymmetrical follows; I think it's prudent if track is used in connection with it. I'm with Ken here -- I think they're just in pedal-to-the-metal-build-market-share mode. This wouldn't bother me if they had one person -- one employee -- who had the task of interfacing with the community; representing twitter, engaging in conversation. I even offered to do it for free...they didn't notice. :) In some circles, it's called community management. :) - Karoli

:) Michael, fwiw, I follow about 100 times more people than anyone who works at Twitter does. Karoli, that's a fair point. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Marshall - I have the same concern. It doesn't appear that they're listening. It's ironic that they have a great platform to interface with their followers/fans but don't seem to in a creative, enthusiastic way. In fact, the recent communications seemed to have been sarcastic. - phil baumann

Marshall, yeah I see that. I think that everyone should use http://mobatalk.com since I'm just one guy doing it all by myself, debt up to my eyes, I care about our community, and nobody seems to care. - Michael Bailey

Not to change the subject, but can we talk about how in the same week Twitter messes with Replies, Tumblr launched another 'dumb down' feature called "Tumblarity" that seems to do the same thing: and that is discourage conversation and encourage people to pump out 'viral' content that appeals to the widest/lowest denominator. - Mark Schoneveld

Michael - I'll have to tweet that out. - phil baumann

It's really funny when everyone thought that "Tom" made myspace - what a bunch of marketing crap - here's a guy who really is doing it by himself and there's nobody talking about it. - Michael Bailey

Thanks @phil - Michael Bailey

sorry Marshall, I didn't mean to come in here and hijack your conversation - leaving now.... - Michael Bailey

Marshall: Twitter has been like this for a long time. Why do you think I'm pushing Friendfeed so hard for the past 16 months? - Robert Scoble

Scoble, you aren't even "on" friendfeed - I've tried having a conversation w/you there. You just pump feeds into it. - Michael Bailey

I'm wondering what Twitter, Inc. would look like if it had FF peeps running things. Just a speculative question. - phil baumann

I do think that they are strategically NOT listening to the tech press. Which is actually pretty smart to some extent. That way they focus on the bigger world and don't worry about getting on TechCrunch or in RWW. - Robert Scoble

Robert, they don't have to listen to the tech press. However, they ought to be listening to their community. Proactively. - Karoli

I agree w Robert, it would be smarter to NOT listen to the fishbowl - Michael Bailey

Michael, you mean except for Scoble's 21000 comments and 18000 likes on friendfeed? - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, no that's not what I mean at all. - Michael Bailey

Michael: what the hell are you talking about? I'm here almost all day long and have TONS of conversations with people. - Robert Scoble

Anyway, back to valuable points, like Marshall's - Christopher Galtenberg

Perhaps NOW you are here (I don't come around often much anymore) - it's not important. No arguments needed. - Michael Bailey

i agree with scoble....i have been moving to friendfeed because it a) lets me piece the conversation about my company together and b) has an infrastructure that actually works. if you could get all your twitter followers to friendfeed, why would you even need twitter? - Crackle

Scalability and performance had to be central to their decision making. Removing features (@) doesn't make sense. You've got to wonder why they didn't go down the path that Jive took and look to move toward virtualization technology. A partnership with Amazon should be a no brainer since Bezos is on the board. Not enough cash maybe? - Kim Feraday

Michael: it's funny. You only have commented here 33 times. Who the hell are you to tell me that I don't have conversations here? - Robert Scoble

Thanks Christopher, next time just punch me in the face. - Michael Bailey

Twitter's advantage is only the number of people already signed up. It's a subset of friendfeed. - Brent Logan

Robert's got a great point about listening to the tech crowd. I just get the sense that Twitter may not be leading the service a path that maximizes what Twitter is worth (if anything). What's Twitter's vision? - phil baumann

Bait is bait, Robert. You bit. conversation derailed. one of my fundamental objections to the flat thread is how easily a thread can be hijacked. - Karoli

"Hey Robert - are you up for some beta testing in about 10 days or so? April 6" - that's the only one I was talking about. - Michael Bailey

Phil: And again, I repeat...Twitter doesn't have to listen to the techies. It *does* need to listen to the community, interact, and respond, proactively. - Karoli

Karoli: yeah, I'm thinking of blocking Michael. He's obviously an asshole to say something like that. So I missed his message. Geesh. - Robert Scoble

Twitter is bigger, faster, and more high profile than anything the management team has done before, and their own personal celebrity seems to have become the growth engine instead of the users behavior and ideas. New users is fine, but retention is going to be critical to be valuable. I think they need to say no to a few PR invitations and possibly and adult supervisor to bring them back to reality. Maybe that's already in the works... - Nancy King

Karoli - whatever, but before you do, take notice of what a "closed loop" you are making this seem like. No wonder nobody wants to come in here. - Michael Bailey

Karoli - agree about the listening to community. Not necessarily act on what users think they want, but listen at some level. At least not alienate those who might be useful to their growth. - phil baumann

Troll - Christopher Galtenberg

It's all great that Ev and Biz built something successful, but I think it's time they hand it off to some folks who can manage it properly. - Aaron B. Hockley

JFC, now I am an asshole? - Michael Bailey

oh snap, Marshall! My guess is 3. - jeannie christensen

MK, My experience is that my outlook is blasted as crazy or simply misunderstood. The platforms which will continue on the web are the ones which serve the Elite who control most things on this earth. Twitter as currently configured gives the little man too much power, and will be brought under control so as to be useful to a small number of people. - bill giltner

Michael: yes. When you call me out for missing a single direct message on a series of days when traffic was extraordinarily high you are an asshole. If you really cared you would have tried again. - Robert Scoble

Michael: especially when I have 18,000 comments here and you only have 33. - Robert Scoble

@Scoble, Michael: Take the pissing somewhere else. We were discussing Twitter. - Brad_King

Marshall, Jeannie's back on track: how many are following you? Out of curiosity. - phil baumann

i suggest that friendfeed's comment strings have the "thumbs up" "thumbs down" feature similar to youtube to help keep the conversation on track and hide irrelevant comments - Crackle

great advice, shall I forward the emal and the DM that I followed up with? - Michael Bailey

ok Brad, sorry - I get a bit upset when people call me names. Sorry, let's move along. - Michael Bailey

From an engineering standpoint, I agree with the new @replies rules. - Michael Bailey

Brad: sorry for getting off topic here. - Robert Scoble

maybe most of us have less than 10k followers, but there are enough "big ones" now and that creates a lot of database pressure - Michael Bailey

TWO. that's the answer, that was first comment I left. Lead scientist and Rael D. are following me on Twitter, that is all. It's not about me, really, though. It's about listening and participating. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

@Aaron: there's a long valley tradition of that. Michael Lewis wrote a good book, The New, New Thing, about Jim Clark's role trying to transition from start-up to company. (Lewis was a prof of mine in grad school). It offers some interesting insights on what founders go through trying to take their "Blood" and turn it into a community use project. I think Twitter is simply going through this crossroads transition. - Brad_King

@Michael, Scoble: We still love everyone. Sidetracks happen :) - Brad_King

Phil, lots of issues could have been headed off at the pass with someone talking to the community at large. Example: API throttling. Most users saw it as a power play rather than a necessity. What the twitter dudes don't get is that their community isn't just geeks and celebs. Lots of regular folk who are trying to get it. - Karoli from BuddyFeed

right, @tropical, yet those @ replies still had to be sorted through - Michael Bailey

Twitter's employees don't use Twitter the way we want them to, Marshall. Have you taken a look at any of their favorite tweet streams? There is a story there. :) - Louis Gray

Who thinks Twitter right now is being used the way it was originally intended (whatever that was)? - phil baumann

original intent? hell no, they didn't even know what it was going to be used for. - Michael Bailey

Marshall, they don't seem to be very plugged in. http://twitter.100twt.com/ - Dave Winer

I guess it really doesn't matter what we say in here, Twitter still has $55MM sitting around - Michael Bailey

Their original intent has evolved. that's what happens when you open something up to the community. No single developer can imagine every application for something this simple. Twitter+mobile=gamechanger. Still, there are lessons to learn from MySpace, Friendster, etc. that they don't appear to have learned. - Karoli

Until a real community ponies up some cash for membership, any new service is always going to be looking for an exit, and in doing so will fuck over the very community which made it what it is. - Michael Bailey

@Dave If I had to guess I'd say they are quite well plugged in, just not into the "tech crowd" or their own service. But they do quite well generating lots of talk in the world outside of Silicon valley. They've clearly made a choice to ignore this space. - Alexander van Elsas

I believe the future of micro-blogging as we know it today with all followers seeing all posts is only sustainable in a defined group. - Pierre-Armand Lalonde

Michael: see your friendfeed account, I'm talking to you on your other message. - Robert Scoble

@Alexender: Ignore may be too harsh. The reality is the digerati are a small subset of who any company needs to reach. They are simply ALSO listening to other people (is my guess). We don't get our way all the time just because we were here first. (Which isn't to say I don't want my way too.) - Brad_King

just to be clear again: I'm just using this as a data point re listening to conversations about the twitter technology, not saying I'm in any way entitled to be followed by anyone. fwiw, though, I do have more followers than all but like 5 or 6 of the 47 people on twitter staff and I talk about twitter all the time. so community members find my tweets interesting, just not the ppl i'm tweeting about. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Dave Winer: is that stream twitter employees only? could it be true that one of them doesn't know what friendfeed is? - Karoli

Karoli - and I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. If you invent something without knowing how far it might go (that is, not having a vision), how do you lead the venture? Is something like Twitter even "leadable"? Or will Twitter turn out to be too fundamental a service to be a business venture? - phil baumann

Marshall: you are not the only one to notice that Twitter's staff isn't participating in the community. Here's another test. Why is Oprah recommended to me to follow? Why isn't someone like Leo Laporte recommended? Or Dave Winer? Both have been using Twitter a lot longer. - Robert Scoble

Robert - it appears that Twitter's going for the celebrity market, whatever that'll look like. If that's the case, it doesn't seem to be a very creative vision. - phil baumann

Or, even worse, Twitter recommends to me to follow a cat, which is obviously a fake account. Why should I follow a cat and not Leo Laporte? - Robert Scoble

I was the 10,280th person to start using Twitter - recommend me - Michael Bailey

Phil, that's where community is the critical piece, which goes to Marshall's point. If they are not part of the community *they* created, should we worry? I think, yes, we should. Ignoring community means they don't understand their own product. - Karoli

Robert, the Twitter team is not following early adopters or the developer community. But the Twitter team does follow the celebs. It's clear what they want to be when they grow up. - Louis Gray

@Robert you know that is because they are on steroids. Growth is more important than user value. An old web 2.0 flaw ;-) - Alexander van Elsas

Twitter is simply the first [service] to offer this new [technology]. as Dan York says, we didn't know we were missing a medium until Twitter showed us. That's exciting. But it's silly to think we'll all use this one Web site in the future, or a different Web site like FriendFeed. Frustrated Twitterati can _now_ take their µblog to their own domain and start collecting followers there... more... - Brian Hendrickson

Nail.on.head - Louis Gray - Matthew DeVries

Ah, so the message is that the only community that matters is the celebrity crowd. ("in crowd" refrains ringing here...) - Karoli

Karoli: celebrities are important to generate hype. It's a brilliant strategy. But one that I think will ultimately leave Twitter wanting. - Robert Scoble

No any community that can gather 1M followers in week :) - Pierre-Armand Lalonde

Brian Hendrickson: Until they all talk to each other (and they don't right now), they're not relevant. I am a hard-core Identica denizen, but since there's no bridge from twitter back to identica, i don't use it as much. Why? Because the majority of those I call "community" are on Twitter. My social graph is there. - Karoli

oh, at the core it all boils down to OCD and Ego's - Michael Bailey

Robert, celebrities are a handful of people. There are millions using Twitter. They seriously cannot manage a handful of celebs and still listen to the larger community? - Karoli

At some point, people who are spending VC money will need to stop being looked at as "leaders" or "visonaries" and we'll need to start talking about people who are actually making this medium pay-off. - Michael Bailey

Karoli: well, they do have other things to do too like make their servers work. It's impressive that they've been able to keep the service mostly up and running. - Robert Scoble

Robert, my point (and it will sound self-serving but I mean it in a much more general way), is that out of 47 employees, not one is tasked with monitoring and interfacing with the community. That strikes me as poor business. - Karoli

@Karoli Twitter execs don't need to follow or listen to anyone as their service grows like crazy without any effort on their side. It's a short term winning strategy, but severely flawed as pointed out here. Question is do they really care? Evidence seems to be pointing towards "don't care" - Alexander van Elsas

Alexander: agree. - Karoli

Alexander - it does appear they don't care. Which begs the question: why do we care? :) - phil baumann

@Karoli my self-serving counterpoint would be something like "I spent 11,000 hours developing a system based on the community feedback, and now nobody cares" so I don't blame Twitter for NOT listening. - Michael Bailey

the "community" is real quick to say things like "follow your passion" or "don't give up" and yet when someone actually sticks it out and makes the technology work, those same people are nowhere to be found. - Michael Bailey

@Karoli there is a bridge http://tw2omb.singpolyma.net/ and my software has the client feature but i'm revamping it at the moment, and I believe identi.ca/evan is working on it for Laconica - Brian Hendrickson

Just because they are not following doesn't mean they are not listening. There are plenty of way to mine the data without having a huge following list. - WorldofHiglet

@WorldofHiglet: well said! - Brad_King

I care because in essence I have always felt Twitter was a GREAT service. That feeling is disappearing fast now that I am forced to pay attention to 95% spam/traffic account following notifications. Takes away all the fun in discovering new people. I will be forced to mark Twitter e-mail notifications as spam, and that is a FAIL for what used to be a great service. - Alexander van Elsas

Michael, I understand the frustration. But twitter has the user base to justify some modicum of community management. - Karoli

@Karoli agreed on the user base, but mixing their technology with the ego-serving attitude of a vocal-minority doesn't work out well. - Michael Bailey

Alexander - ditto - phil baumann

Like I said in another thread, Twitter is evolving. They're evolving into a finely tuned organism optimized to add users at the fastest possible rate with the smallest possible footprint and the minimum amount of engineering effort and infrastructure investment. - Ken Sheppardson

I am far more concerned abt the lack of good Twitter Apps and of a user-interface that allows me to *easily* go through my list of followers, form groups, delete and block, recategorize by location (for when I travel), ect. Those are the user tools that would be *most* beneficial, I think. - Brad_King

WorldofHiglet actions speak louder than words. Not once has Twitter demonstrated that they had the first clue what the community at large was doing or how they were using the service, nor have they indicated that they care. - Karoli

@karoli, those are the 47 Twitter employees in the article that came out last week. And you can tell what they're tuned into by what they talk about, same as anyone else. They don't really talk about much, themselves, they aren't even conversing. I don't think they're following celebs, I don't think they're following anyone. That's just how it looks from reading the conversation. - Dave Winer

@davewiner it's astounding that one of them doesn't know what friendfeed is. - Karoli

@brad_king I could build that, no problem. - Michael Bailey

Here's another bit of data. I did two of these at the same time, one for the people of the NYT on Twitter and the other for the people of Twitter on Twitter. The Times peoplel discovered my thing within 5 minutes (they noticed when the bot followed them) and they were talking about it immediately, and exchanging theories on what it was. As far as I can tell, the Twitter folk don't yet know we're listening to them. - Dave Winer

@karoli I know lots of people that do not know what Friendfeed is. That is a Silicon valley attitude ;-) - Alexander van Elsas

http://nyt.100twt.com/ - Dave Winer

@Michael: what I've suggested isn't rocket science of course. I think it's instructive that twitter (and many 2.0 companies) have overlooked the basics of usability. Would love to see those apps get built. - Brad_King

Dave - that seems to tell us something. So, are they not listening with a purpose/strategy, or just plain old not listening? - phil baumann

@Brad of course, none of this is rocket science, hell even rocket science itself isn't that difficult - I'm agreeing with you that those features in an app would be beneficial. Be warned however, that the "basics of usability" will be trumped if it doesn't readily serve one's ego. - Michael Bailey

Knowing human nature, Phil, it's probably the latter. It probably never occurred to them to listen. - Dave Winer

@Phil: Or, might I suggest a third alternative, they are simply not listening to *you* - Brad_King

Whereas the Times hires people whose profession is to be curious about WTF is going on. - Dave Winer

Yeah @Phil, that's probably true (what Brad said). Heck even Dave Winer doesn't listen to me, why would the Twitter folkeratti? ;^) - Michael Bailey

@Brad - Oh I'm sure they're not. And I don't blame them in that case.:) - phil baumann

Marshall, are you still here? - Michael Bailey

@Phil: hahaha! - Brad_King

Dave Winer popularized recipient-controlled distribution, Jack Dorsey made it 2-way and realtime on a single domain, Evan Prodromou created a way for any site to join a realtime 2-way network. - Brian Hendrickson

Alexander: When a service is built on your product, it seems to me worthwhile to know it exists. When it's one that wins things like Techcrunch 50, it especially seems worthwhile to be aware of its existence. - Karoli

Well yeah, but even RSS which was supposed to provide a "summary" ended up shipping the entire contents of a site around the web. Nobody could expect Twitter to anticipate how their system would be used. Nobody can do that. - Michael Bailey

What a great conversation. looking forward to catching up when I get back from work in the lab. - Brad_King

okay, I lost the post about identi.ca and laconica...but the identi.ca bridge only goes *to* twitter. It needs a lane going the other way...twitter to identi.ca. [EDIT] Found the post, thanks for the link. First I knew this existed! - Karoli

Michael - and I suppose anyone with that kind of visionary powers wouldn't be courting Kelso. - phil baumann

@phil, yeah, and if you find them, invest on my behalf, would ya? ;^) - Michael Bailey

Yes, I had a crude tweet-pulling client working in my OMB, now fixing it. and @singpolyma wrote the bridge I linked to but I haven't tried it yet, and @evan is getting a lot of requests and I spoke to him briefly about it in San Francisco and it seemed a possibility depending on licensing - Brian Hendrickson

Even if we could bring in the top 2,500 Twitter users and ask them for a concise list of all the features of a "killer app" it wouldn't be done. Way too many ideas and implementations for a single app. - Michael Bailey

Yes but when there is a good open source "clone" written in a fast-to-develop language then people will start creating new iterations of this medium - Brian Hendrickson

@Karoli I think that people living outside the Silicon Valley bubble have never heard of TechCrunch or FF. It may be interesting, it's also true that we tend to find things much more important than the rest of the world. They can do without a service like FF and still live happy ever after ;-) - Alexander van Elsas

we don't need a fast-to-develop language (RoR didn't scale, nor will any others). We need people who understand programming, low-overhead, efficient methods, etc. - Michael Bailey

It's "programming" - it's not supposed to be easy. - Michael Bailey

not for a network of millions of microblogs, you're thinking of scaling silos which is different - Brian Hendrickson

Just checked out Dave's link. The two tweets about Friendfeed are unbelievable - Jamie

how would those microblogs be connected, if not via a few silos? - Michael Bailey

there are at least 3 implementations right now of the http://openmicroblogging.org specification for site-to-site microblogging. 1: Laconica 2: OpenMicroBlogger 3: A wordpress plugin called nsw or something. And the Jaiku team has been actively improving the specification. - Brian Hendrickson

the protocol is just OAuth with a couple of fields added, and it's push-based so there is no polling - Brian Hendrickson

oh, sounds like a modified pingback structure - Michael Bailey

it lets people [Follow] you in realtime using a simple push. if you were microblogging at microblog.michaelbailey.com and you had 7,000 people at identi.ca following you, your message would be POSTed one time to that server. if 4,000 people at Leo's army.twit.tv were following you, your server would do a 2nd POST to deliver the notice/status to that community. - Brian Hendrickson

also, thinking outloud, and a few steps ahead, there'll eventually need to be a "registration" list maintained someplace to facilitate the discovery of what sites I could push to, which is a silo - Michael Bailey

all instances of OpenMicroBlogger ping a central search server with the URL of each status, and the search feature uses that central server, so that will facilitate discovery, but yes the other thing a "registration" list would do is make the [Follow] process more streamlined, right now you have to copy/paste a URL to follow someone on a site where you have not registered. - Brian Hendrickson

well, lessons learned from RSS were that people were quick no navigate to the early content aggregators, rather than wondering around looking for individual sites, so the issue of scaling the silo will remain - but, it does sound interesting and I'll look forward to watching it mature. - Michael Bailey

how many Twitterati would choose blogger.com over self-hosted wordpress? people are definitely interested in this, check out the download count of the #1 software package here http://open.srcphp.com/#top_co... - Brian Hendrickson

Brian: I think that analogy's distorted a bit. I'd say it's more a question of how many people would install their own email server. - Ken Sheppardson

off to a good start, but I don't think the first 25,000 will really count, and there's a ways to go for that. - Michael Bailey

And let me just say that I for one like how FriendFeed comment streams are flat, and the converation wanders all over the map to things that are completely unrelated to the entry, but they always tend to come back on track. It's an actual conversaion, not some explosion of nested comment conversation fragments. - Ken Sheppardson

agreed - what ken just said ;) - mike "glemak" dunn

Ken - well put. An acid trip that brings you back home. - phil baumann

Ken: openmicroblogger has friendfeed-style vertical comment threads, it also has comet-push for realtime for both notices and comments. - Brian Hendrickson

@Ken agreed - nested replies are only good in theory ;^) - Michael Bailey

Ken: email servers are private, microblogs are simply easier blogs. i've created 700 or so posts in my 1.5 years of microblogging - Brian Hendrickson

See, like that there. I don't know what the heck openmicroblogger has to do with anything, but I'll defend to the death your right to sidetrack the converation by talking about it ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

haha thanks - Brian Hendrickson

I would guess that it will find it's niche, but like opml it will remain too convoluted for the masses. - Michael Bailey

you can run openmicroblogger on a GoDaddy host, i've done it - Brian Hendrickson

I mean, heck, people still hit reply all and then say oooops - Michael Bailey

in the early days of email - back when all data was passed using UUCP (i.e. before the internet) email servers were exactly "public" in so much as if you had the UUCP bang path you could send anyone a message - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

it's only until scaling issues hit that forced smtp to be created - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

LOL heck Mike, I still remember doing archie searches - Michael Bailey

evan's protocol will surely hit some scaling problems if it becomes popular. xmpp has all of that covered of course and is speedy as hell, but not so easy to host yourself. I installed erlang and checked out punjab and it's all very cool. - Brian Hendrickson

yes, microbologging over xmpp is in a lot of ways at the same stage as html over http was at when apache was created - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

mike and mike killing the conversation with talk of UUCP and Archie - doh! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

*crickets* - Ken Sheppardson

Ken the reason i'm making noise over here is because people don't realize they can collect their followers and their content in their own database, and that they can "manage" their social network the way they manage their blog. - Brian Hendrickson

status.net and twitteronia will help move the conversation along i think - Brian Hendrickson

or maybe it's not that they don't realize it, it's that they don't care :-) - Brian Hendrickson

It may just be that the logic leap between "Twitter doesn't seem to be listening to me" and "Go get a server and build your own Twitter" is a little too much for most people. :-) - Ken Sheppardson

don't "build a twitter", just microblog from a service that is part of a network, or install a microblog on your own site. identi.ca makes the former trivial. openmicroblogger makes the latter trivial. - Brian Hendrickson

Karoli, I agree that they need to do lot more of this but Twitter does have people like @crystal doing community mgmt on Get Satisfaction. - Mike Doeff

As the developer of openmicroblogger, you might have a slightly different definition of "trivial" than the typical disenfranchised Twitter user, Brian. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

oh I dunno - the reality of that is it is too disconnected - when all the the microfeeds are pulled in, and I go to leave a comment, I expect a pretty rapid response - but in actual use, the person pushing the data out isn't even "there". - Michael Bailey

I get responses days or sometimes weeks after leaving a comment, then I'm like "huh? oh yeah, I've moved on" - Michael Bailey

of course, were I an A-Lister, I'd be all for it, because as long as my "message" gets pushed out to all platforms, I don't really care about engaging in conversation - Michael Bailey

as search is developed on the http://openmicroblogging.org network of microblogs, you'll be able to see replies on other hosts more easily, and for the next version of the protocol there will be an attempt to allow @replies between sites but it will be tricky to keep the spammers out. - Brian Hendrickson

which will no doubt turn into a full-time job and degrade the service and then when you take steps to keep them out, you'll piss off your community - wait, are we talking about Twitter now? lol - Michael Bailey

Let's just create OOAPI, the open openAPI - Michael Bailey

well, it seems to have died in here, thanks for the great conversation (and I'll overlook the name calling and bashing...Robert) ;^) - Michael Bailey

the community already has a choice of several pieces of software. but yes thanks for the conversation Michael and Ken and Mike and Mike ;) happy microblogging - Brian Hendrickson

this thread officially has reached its quota of mikes - justsayn ;) - mike "glemak" dunn

The fact that this conversation is happening over at FriendFeed (and could never exist on Twitter) is pretty telling in itself. It's hard to get excited about Twitter. In fact, I see less and less value in the service as time goes by. I wonder if they can deliver in the near future. - Kevin Pruett

*mike threshold now officially surpassed* I'm 5 hours late to the party, but just planting a post-it note that says High density of information, Return here sometime. And I whole-heartily agree with Ken's single-level threads work best on ff. Were there a scattering of sub-branching comments, it would be akin to shuttling around one or two people in/out of a side rooms for a chat when a... more... - Micah Wittman

yes agreed, i love the single level threading of ff as well - mike "glemak" dunn

yay! my name is not mike! :) interesting post and long thread! ;) though I'm naturally biased about 'tree'-threading, I like to have the option to list or thread if I want. Oddly enough, I'm building something which isn't a million miles *between* twitter and friendfeed (on top of a phreadz platform). </plug> - back to the topic though, 2/47 isn't bad for a journo: even less of them follow the developers who have actually built interesting/useful/unexpected/valuable things on their platform. - kosso

speaking from experience eh kosso - i for one am glad to call you an honorary mike ;) - mike "glemak" dunn

I've only seen a tiny bit of video of the twitter founders - there's not much charisma and there's something else I can't put my finger on. Probably it's that "normal introverts" look arrogant under the "sudden darling" media spotlight. - Richard ¿digame? Walker

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TWiT Conversations: Leo Laporte

Live now: The Gillmor Gang from the Facebook Press Conference. Discuss here...

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John McCrea of Plaxo: "what you're going to see today is nothing short of the birth of the social web." - Leo Laporte

781 more comments

If this is the birth of the social web, the gestation period has been huge - Gabe

look, it's the self appointed next Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, live! - Gabe

wondering when the api tiered license fees will happen - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Is anyone from FriendFeed in the room at Facebook? - Ken Sheppardson

I saw 3 folks from Seesmic there - make sense since we have a facebook app - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Zuckerberg has certainly expanded his strategic vision:-) - Francine Hardaway

Dave Morin, Facebook http://beta.friendfeed.com/davemor... - Ken Sheppardson

Will my mom understand this? - Ken Sheppardson

looks like Friendfeed - Matthew

Leo, Dave Morin's title is: Senior Platform Manager - Gabe

"Comment, Like, and do all the things you're used to doing on the Facebook site." - Ken Sheppardson

+1 Ken Sheppardson, good question - Kim Landwehr

Dave Morin: "Everyone can publish into the stream - you can create your own 'view' of the stream" - we are all becoming broadcasters. Does that impact the quality of conversation - interaction - connection? - Debi Jones

going to have to start charing Chris M. a nickel every time he uses "open" to describe private meetings - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Will they at some point start referring to themselves as Comcast rather than Plaxo? - Ken Sheppardson

This at least is an open event - thanks to Facebook for letting us stream it - Leo Laporte

Betcha Twitter isn't there - Leo Laporte

Definitely no twitter lol - Gary Prechtel

good point Leo - it is more open then ever before as a PR event - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Yeah, nice of them to green light Robert to stream - Ken Sheppardson

This is awesome so much appreciated - Gary Prechtel

perhaps I'm a bit of a social media snob, but isn't this just the actualization of what most people knew would happen eventually? - Gabe

Gabe: yeah, it's another piece of the puzzle - Ken Sheppardson

Yes, but it's a big deal that the walled gardens are starting to disappear. - Albert Willis

Gabe, what's exciting is the stuff behind the scenes that enable 3rd party devs access to the info. But what remains to be seen is how open is "open" and in which direction can the information flow. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Just nice to watch the progression up close - Gary Prechtel

Would an open event have symmetry in discussion? Is Facebook participating in this room? Fielding questions from here? Not sure how this group live commenting idea works. - Debi Jones

Still not re-activating my Comcast Plaxo account - Leo Laporte

I think they're happy to be "open" to they extent they can completely control the information or partner with folks who subscribe to their worldview. - Ken Sheppardson

Plaxo's now inside the wall. - Ken Sheppardson

Percent of my Facebook friend on Plaxo: 0 - Gabe

Mike Taylor: Is Loic there? I think he should be up there talking about Seesmic Desktop integration, much more interesting - Gabe

It may be unfair, but when I hear Plaxo my mind still translates to Spamxo. Their original trust violation was so egregious not sure I would choose to trust them ever again. - Debi Jones

Yes, Loic is there - I think he is presenting something but not sure - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

"two committed partners who share the vision" - Ken Sheppardson

Scoble vision - Matthew

I still dislike Plaxo. So many strangers on there want to connect. - Francine Hardaway

Why should all roads lead to Facebook? or through Facebook? - Debi Jones

They don't; this is just the demo. Activity Streams is an open standard that any site can implement. - Albert Willis

Debi Jones, I don't think its about where all the roads are going, its about eliminating dead ends - Gabe

yet another air app. do I need to be excited aboutthis? - Tendonitis' Bitch

I'm sure Facebook intends to be a hub. Can't see a fully meshed network of activitystrea.ms, can y'all? - Ken Sheppardson

Not about the Adobe AIR app; the fact you can access your Facebook stream from a desktop client. - Albert Willis

well, currently the social web was a bunch of change points where you had to change from your car to a bus and then sometimes change buses. Oh and sometimes it was a one way trip. Now they are trying to make it so that Facebook is the central goto place for all the Social data. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I have a client it's called Firefox :D - Tendonitis' Bitch

As I'm in control here - it is important to me to send some updates to some people not all updates to all of my social graph. Important to maintain the efficiency and integrity of micro community memberships. - Debi Jones

RIght, but you can't have your Twitter stream in the same window as your Facebook stream, for example. - Albert Willis

OMG! Thats what I call incredible team. Adobe, Plaxo, Facebook, Seesmic, Scoble, oh god. - Rafael

"Per the Developer Terms of Service, you may not cache any user data for more than 24 hours, with the exception of information that is explicitly "storable indefinitely." Only the following parameters are storable indefinitely; all other information must be requested from Facebook each time. " -- http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index... - Ken Sheppardson

Is the new Seesmic with FB out yet? I got an update this morning but no FB integration - Tendonitis' Bitch

NOt yet, but it's coming soon. - Albert Willis

k I'm on Team Seesmic so I assume I'll get an email - Tendonitis' Bitch

Ken Sheppardson: Any word on api call limits that will hamper desktop apps like with tweet deck? - Gabe

It will be released very soon - they are finishing some user-data flow issues and doing final QA - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

what will the opening of FB mean for FF users? good stuff? - Tendonitis' Bitch

ken - yes, there is a *lot* of queries just to get data items - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Gabe - Don't know. I'm just checking out http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index... - Ken Sheppardson

Seesmic desktop, built on AIR won't do it for me, far too much of a memory hog/leaker. - kevin

Thanks for adding the TOS details Ken. Good catch! - Debi Jones

kevin - the major memory leak that was an adobe issue has been fixed - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I agree with kevin - Rafael

ugh all this for a app? - John Moore

so I guess twitter and facebook arent competitors anymore? - Tendonitis' Bitch

Not anymore - Francine Hardaway

To any of the FriendFeed staff that might be here, is this a +, -, or a neutral for you? Is Facebook drinking your milkshake, or will this just open your service up to a bigger audience? - Gabe

Sure they are. And of course they're not. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

John, they are showing how we, as a normal 3rd party dev, were able to build this using the new api. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

good Q Gabe - Tendonitis' Bitch

Thats good. Social Web will increase quality - Rafael

Browser based solutions are definitely more mobile friendly than AIR apps. - Debi Jones

They've never really been competing, though Facebook is becoming more Twitter-like all of the time. - Albert Willis

Right Gabe, would like to hear FF reaction. - Debi Jones

Air/Sliverlight client demos? - Ken Sheppardson

I think FB has become more Friend Feed like, but that's just me - Tendonitis' Bitch

I'm a pc hausdhuash - Rafael

go Scoble :D - Tendonitis' Bitch

Installation of desktop apps just isn't happening, AIR may have been fixed, but I move machine to machine too much, need the web where settings mostly follow me. - kevin

I think all the features are well understood. Honestly, nobody's going to be doing anything revolutionary in this space, it's just a matter of connecting lots of existing dots and filling out feature sets. - Ken Sheppardson

I wouldn't doubt that FriendFeed will support the Activity Streams API. - Albert Willis

developers developers decelopers! - Tendonitis' Bitch

Okay I missed the Intro - who are these guys? - Debi Jones

I like seesmic but now I'm trying DestroyTwitter, also a great app http://beta.friendfeed.com/wim66... - Willem (@wim66) ☠

Debi: This is Microsoft. - Ken Sheppardson

aka Facebook investor. - Ken Sheppardson

This could be a competitive advantage for FF - since Twitter never will support it. - Leo Laporte

OK they are really opening up more than they were before. - John Moore

Thanks Leo I see the lower third when I switched over the the video tab. - Debi Jones

Leo, I wouldn't say never. Never is a long time. ;-) - Albert Willis

once FF makes seeing all of my twitter friends activity available to me in 1-2 easy steps I'll abandon Twitter aps for good anyhow - Tendonitis' Bitch

So I'm sitting here looking at the pop-up to link my Plaxo <-> Facebook accounts, trying to think through all the implications of connecting the two network. Will my mom get this? No. - Ken Sheppardson

I don't think it's prudent to design for mom in the long run - Leo Laporte

Unless it's just positioned to her as "share everything with everybody" - Ken Sheppardson

facebook's control over "my data" and Plaxo's spam rep scare me - Tendonitis' Bitch

Leo: Probably true... but that was sorta code for "I really don't get this but don't want to admit it" ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

[ ] Automatically connect me with my Facebook friends who already use Plaxo - Ken Sheppardson

I wondering if the majority of facebook users want to connect with everything or if they like it closed - Kim Landwehr

[ ] Share my Facebook Wall Stories (like photos, links, and videos) with my Plaxo Friends - Ken Sheppardson

[ ] Update my Plaxo status when I change my Facebook status - Ken Sheppardson

This is why people hate Microsoft - they're like your uncool uncle trying to be cool - Leo Laporte

ina creepy way eh Leo? - Tendonitis' Bitch

Leo--exactly. - Albert Willis

Right - I'm getting the impression here that I'm in control so long as 1)Facebook owns all my data, 2)Plaxo owns all my contacts and 3)Microsoft owns my desktop and by extension my mobile device. Cool - got it thnx. - Debi Jones

so are you saying Microsoft is the 6th beer of a 6 pack. - Gary Prechtel

I have three checkboxes... and I have to be able to visualize my entire social graph on two services to decide if I want them linked. - Ken Sheppardson

scoble is sheilding his mac in a father/daughter protective manner - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

he's trying too hard to be amusing - Kim Landwehr

and failing - Tendonitis' Bitch

My question is what they plan to do with all of this and mobile. - Mike Nayyar

You can tell he's an MSer, a finely honed sense of self deprication, tempered with an air of loathing - Gabe

what is silverlight's performance on OS X compared to Flash? - Tendonitis' Bitch

scoble needs a shave - patrick

LOL Gabe - sorry I couldn't resist. - Debi Jones

Debi--it's not quite that bad. Activity Streams is open; Facebook's API is proprietary to them. But eventually, it'll all be on open standards. - Albert Willis

This open id announcement will be big. - Albert Willis

Anyone figure out where Scoble is commenting? - Gabe

OpenID? That exists again? - Mike Nayyar

Really wish I could take off my snark colored glasses and see if this is important. - Ken Sheppardson

Is Steve there? - Francine Hardaway

It never stopped existing and now Facebook will be a relaying party, more than likely. - Albert Willis

this will be cool only if they let me use my existing OpenID to log into Facebook - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Thanks for the positive encouragement Albert - now can you show me where I can get tool for deep packet inspection of Facebook? - Debi Jones

Mike: how so? - Markus Kobler

Gunny, Mac netflix streaming is via silverlight. It works very well. - John Moore

Y'know, at the individual level, I have no doubt everyone in the room there wants to do The Right Thing. - Ken Sheppardson

The good news, if you don't trust Facebook, you don't have to use them. - Albert Willis

Markus - I have OpenID already thru ClaimID and my own website - can I use that to associate with my Facebook ID - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Ken, I think it's about 50% more important than you think it is, and 50% less important than those in the video think it is... - Gabe

Ken, I jumped in and integrated Plaxo & FB, butI can't see the value add in doing that. I'm now I'm nervous to have another channel where I share my stuff to others. Plus, I could care less about my Plaxo network. - Andre P. Siregar

Andre - Agreed, that's the main problem I have with that announcement. Great, Facebook links to something I don't care about! - Mike Nayyar

Gabe: Sounds like a reasonable compromise. :-) - Ken Sheppardson

The built-in cam and mic on scobles mac are working really well for this - John Moore

So I can read my gmail on FB? Or is it like the Twitter gadget and I can see FB on gmail - Francine Hardaway

Question: How many people here let social sites import your email contacts automagically? - Debi Jones

Your Gmail can authenticate you on Facebook. - Albert Willis

Debi - Not me, at all. - Mike Nayyar

I used the search my gmail contacts for Friend Feed - Tendonitis' Bitch

its seth rogan - Tendonitis' Bitch

This is an interesting approach by FB, they offer OpenID support as a way to pacify people who realize they could crush OpenID if they decided to really push FB Connect - Gabe

Gunny - I thought the exact same thing! LOL - Mike Nayyar

did anyone else lose audio? or just me? - patrick

Unless you are a Plaxo member I am not sure how this helps unless I missed something - Kim Landwehr

Mike: I can understand using FB as your OpenID account but not sure about the other way around. How secure or what sort of uptime does ClaimID provide? - Markus Kobler

lol don't let Seth hear you say that I think this guys got at least 50 pounds on him - Gary Prechtel

Does this push OpenID over the top, and help with widespread adoption? - Mike Nayyar

I think for many people, myself included, there is a huge trust issue with Facebook that I don't foresee them overcoming. It stems from rumblings about the connections that their founders may have and the recent uproar over content ownership. - Gregg Scott

I want some Gary's wine. - John Moore

Mike: I think it just might Mike, what has more users on the internet than Facebook? - Colin

This is awesome btw Leo, never seen anything like this on the internet! - Colin

yes, the streaming is great. Can't wait to see more of it. - Matthew

I have a Plaxo acct and forgot all about it :D - Tendonitis' Bitch

Seems overblown to me. Don't let Gilmor say how awesome this is. - John Moore

I still feel like this is sort of a minor annoucement. Facebook is kind of OpenID now! You can do all sorts of wacky things with connecting with other websites! You have some desktop apps to view stuff! - Mike Nayyar

I love it, Scoble leaves his lifeline to the world high and dry for 15 min while he schmoozes - Gabe

Those are some well constructed headphones to hole Leo's iPhone - Mike Nayyar

Got love live feed - Kim Landwehr

http://www.plaxo.com/profile... my rection to this announcement - Tendonitis' Bitch

Leo: Hang in there :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Leo would be awesome to have reactions from Twitter and FF to fill this space - You're doing great in a tough situation with the fill time. - Debi Jones

Mike: If it is as open as it should be, this announcement will make me adopt openID and start developing websites with it. So, a big announcement to me. - Colin

It doesn't impress me much - Kim Landwehr

Plaxo.. yuck! - Rob

Not so much going after Twitter, per se, but setting themselves up to the the central hub for the social web - Ken Sheppardson

Colin: Still, I'm underwhelmed by it all. I want to see something really revolutionary from this announcement. - Mike Nayyar

it's interesting to see if Facebook API is as open and flexible as what Twitter's API was in it's early days - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

FriendFeed's going to do that natively, once they turn on realtime filters - Ken Sheppardson

i.e. track - Ken Sheppardson

Facebook is like a rolodex, letting you access people's information easily. Twitter is like a personal ham radio, everyone blasting out to the ether. - Mike Nayyar

I don't think the rest of it was as exciting, but we'll have to see what all developers can make with it now. Maybe it'll spawn a few new great services. - Colin

Heck, Facebook just demo's what... three clients build on this new API? That's a lesson they've taken directly from Twitter. - Ken Sheppardson

This is a blow to Twitter and FriendFeed. Mostly to FF, because at least Twitter has the 140-char simplicity. Facebook now has the mass and the ability to be the hub just like FriendFeed - Andre P. Siregar

I can't help but wonder what Comcast (Plaxo's parent) is thinking as they watch all this. - Ken Sheppardson

We'll be up on Gillmor Gang in a few minutes. Stay tuned! - Robert Scoble

I'd be more interested in seeing a comparison between the friendfeed API and facebook API... - Adnan

Adnan, I agree, it is going to come down to who has the bigger hose ;) - Gabe

Well, that's a good point Leo, we still haven't seen for sure what personal info the API allows and if Facebook will allow that information to be shared - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Andre: If I were FriendFeed, I would definitely be worried right now. Linking and aggregating services is the bread and butter of this service. - Mike Nayyar

And who's firehose is truly open. - Colin

It's meta-data + granular privacy controls for facebook. - Cliff Gerrish

""Per the Developer Terms of Service, you may not cache any user data for more than 24 hours, with the exception of information that is explicitly "storable indefinitely." Only the following parameters are storable indefinitely; all other information must be requested from Facebook each time. " - Ken Sheppardson

A lot of that extra meta data is private to those outside of the friends' private networks. - rob friedman

http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index... - Ken Sheppardson

No MySpace? They're doing some cool stuff wit Activity Streams too. And, erm FriendFeed ;) - Steven Livingstone-Pérez

I've given up Facebook and focused on Twitter and FriendFeed. Why? Because FB requires me to manage a spammy inbox of friend requests from strangers. Not to mention requiring me to figure out a response to being hit by a sheep. It's worse than email inboxes for me. - Debi Jones

Ken - so it looks like that data is clearly in the no-share silo - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

We're ready. - Robert Scoble

Leo, the facebook open API wiki via Ken Sheppardson: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index... - Gabe

Robert - make me care about this annoucement. - Mike Nayyar

I'd like to see if Twitter is going to partner with anyone to an answer of Facebook partnering with Microsoft. - VariXx

Also see Paul Buchheit's comments http://beta.friendfeed.com/paul... - Ken Sheppardson

Mike: OK, we'll do that on air. - Robert Scoble

VariXx - Well, they took Adobe, too, so the number of partners got smaller. How about Google? - Mike Nayyar

The Facebook user is different than the typical Twitter user and they use the respective services quite differently. - Gregg Scott

Robert - yipee! - Mike Nayyar

I am wondering why we need yet another set of Activity Stream Data format standard when friendfeed is already offering leveraging RSS and Media RSS. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Looks like Leo is running mission control for NASA ;p - rob friedman

::yawn:: i think i just made history. lol - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Gregg - Exactly. There are completely different attitudes to using Facebook and Twitter, and the two communities - Mike Nayyar

Mike Nayyar: That's what I was hinting. I hope it goes that way, it might get bloody to see those two names go against Google supporting it. Great things would come for the users though I'd imagine. - VariXx

Most of the audience I want to reach is on myspace and twitter. I have no indication they are on spacebook LOL facebook :P - John Moore

More on the underlying activity stream protocols they were discussing today: http://activitystrea.ms/ - Ken Sheppardson

Yes, there are so few people on Facebook. What is it 200 Million? - Cliff Gerrish

Activitystrea.ms Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group... - Ken Sheppardson

Leo: Has steve done an open yet? :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Actually Gregg and Mike I think of FB and Twitter as communities of communities analogous to network of networks. - Debi Jones

Activitystrea.ms is a great resource - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

The user privacy settings need to be respected no matter what level FB allows others to be promiscuous. - coldbrew

Chaos! - Mike Nayyar

good question, leo. what's so important about this announcement? - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Dude. It's not Laporte Gang - Ken Sheppardson

:-) - Ken Sheppardson

Ken just called out Leo. Ouch. Just got served. - Mike Nayyar

;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'd like to hear Chris's thoughts on what this means for the previously tenuous relationship between FB Connect and OpenID - Gabe

I like the space invaders paint job on the wall :) - rob friedman

Oh, they're drinking wine. Tongues are going to be loosened. Ask them if they're bringing it to Twitter! - Mike Nayyar

Generations of Geeks trying to get thier stuff to work. - Matthew

nice shirt robert :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

+1 open internets on the shirt Robert - Matthew

I knew tha twould make Steve feel old. - Francine Hardaway

Take three! - Mike Nayyar

oh yeah... "we'll" just cut it together - Leo Laporte

:) - rob friedman

Royal we? - Ken Sheppardson

Hang in there Leo - I actually like the trials and tribulations of liveness. Make it c - Debi Jones

Is it true that there are "proprietary" pieces to the FB implementation of the Activity Stream API? - coldbrew

I was thinking of you when Steve said that Leo.. - Colin

Come on Leo, you know you run a professional outfit there - Mike Nayyar

ah, 1:30am. - Jamie

Will the same search engine indexing rules apply to the activity streams? - Mike Nayyar

Robert, would you please ask Dave what kind of specific API call limits we'll see. Is this an area where they are going to be aggressive against Twitter by opening up huge amounts of data? - Gabe

Gabe ++ - Mike Nayyar

This is all very much a "stream", as the TOS (link above) limit your cacheing to 24hrs. - Ken Sheppardson

LOL, Leo. You're doing a kick ass job anyway. - John Moore

what will this mean for friendfeed? - Christopher Harris

Lol, I don't think FaceBook will have a limit at first, they will blow Twitter out of the water. - rob friedman

There are zero parameters that developers are allowed to store Ken? - Debi Jones

is Facebook trying to become the "safe" version of Twitter? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Isn't there still a good deal of public data that a search engine could be built from? - Colin

What about public - everyone streams? Will those print to the internet? - Cliff Gerrish

Colin: No, this is allowing access at the user level, not opening up a public stream. - Ken Sheppardson

Mike: No predators here, nope! But, hopefully, no SEO or Facebook marketing experts either! :) - Mike Nayyar

its not about it being safe or not. they have the social graph. its about bringing as much of the twitter metaphor across to them as possible - Jamie

Cliff: Apparently not, from what I've inferred... - Mike Nayyar

FaceBook wants to buy a new UI by having someone else make it first and hit mass. - rob friedman

?? - Jamie

rob: crowd sourcing FB v2 ? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Mike, I think the granular privacy is very important. But, the full open mode is needed to round out the set. - Cliff Gerrish

Ken: But even at a user level, isn't there still many profiles I as a user can see? You could just make dummy users right? - Colin

I guess Facebook are noticing the huge amount of innovation around Twitter's open API and wanting a piece of developer's attention. - Jalada

Gabe: I'll ask that. - Robert Scoble

i think its more fundamental than that jalada - they dont want their users to leave. - Jamie

Well the new user interface at least. They just opened up the Home page, what else would they be doing? Vignette, or Google Start Page, etc. Widgets. - rob friedman

Colin: In the end, the philosophy surrounding the last Facebook TOS dust-up is still in place... or is it... Robert? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken: no. - Robert Scoble

I'd like both a public and a private stream -- we should be able to scope that... - Cliff Gerrish

When did Facebook change their tune? - Ken Sheppardson

Great question, Ken - Debi Jones

today? - Ken Sheppardson

I think Jamie hit it dead on, with the explosive Twitter growth, this is Facebook's first move to fend off the exodus of more savvy users - Mike Nayyar

Wish I could "like" individual comments here. Hello FF feedback! :-) - Debi Jones

It is still not as useful to me as twitter. And twitter is only slightly useful. - John Moore

Twitter is still tiny compared to Facebook. - Cliff Gerrish

So I'm allowed to pull out, reproduce, and redistribute any content I can technically pull out of Facebook using these new APIs? - Ken Sheppardson

agree cliff but twitter has momentum - Jamie

Well there you have it. Dave Morin confirms that this is a bullshit announcement. - Leo Laporte

For 24 hours :) - rob friedman

Thanks Robert - Gabe

It's just another way to manage facebook content. - Leo Laporte

Cliff - tiny, but year over year growth, plus recent publicity and evangelism by celebrities and the like means it's got some deadly potentional, especially when they rejected the Facebook bid - Mike Nayyar

Kshep -- you can share your stuff, but should you be able to share other people's stuff? - Cliff Gerrish

Leo: Absolutely. Facebook wants their own Tweetdeck and Seesmic to build traffic. - Ken Sheppardson

something tells me this is more exciting for developer right now, then end user at this time - Kim Landwehr

Cliff: That's for me and my friends to decide, not Facebook. - Ken Sheppardson

Kim - definitely. It will be a while before this makes a dent into our daily lives, and who knows where we will be when that time rolls around. - Mike Nayyar

Kim: Definitely. - Colin

But Leo - how do you really feel? Nice! - Debi Jones

Kshep - exactly, but you and your friends set those access controls by persona (as Messina is saying) - Cliff Gerrish

Just like Robert said, I use Twitter, FB, FF and Tumblr for different audiences. - Paul Maez

This dude has never heard of FriendFeed and rooms. Join up, dude! - Mike Nayyar

Facebook is for srtaying in contact with people I wengt to high school with. Twitter is where I get new people in my audience. - John Moore

I think what he just said is the most important thing that has been said all day about this. I'm hopeful they can manage those privacy/audience concerns - Gabe

John Moore - and have much better, much more focused conversations. Oh, wait, that's FriendFeed. My bad! - Mike Nayyar

Mike: You'd be surprised how quickly things can be built on good systems. (I hope Facebook's API is just that) - Colin

Steve wants track from Facebook and that's not what this is about. - Albert Willis

If Twitter/Facebook truly want to be "dialtone" they have to remove themselves from the transaction. AT&T isn't a party to the intellectual property transactions over their network. - Ken Sheppardson

It should be Albert - Gabe

steve wants a firehose - Jamie

Using different sites for different groups of people is OK, but what's the point if you can update one site with your info, and let the data get pushed to where the audience for the information is? - rob friedman

Ken - well, not as of yet. Remember, they did hand over all of that info to DoD... - Mike Nayyar

Kshep, where do the access controls reside? - Cliff Gerrish

this is about taking the best stuff from twitter/ff and bringing it to facebooks model of social graph intertwined with dynamic privacy - Jamie

twitter wins - Leo Laporte

This seems all so complicated! - Edwin Khodabakchian

I don't disagree, but we aren't there yet. Neither is Facebook. - Albert Willis

Cliff: They need to reside with the users. I establish the connection, tunneled over the network, and decide who's in the room on each end. - Ken Sheppardson

DRM, watermarking, whatever - Ken Sheppardson

Edwin: Hopefully what developers create with it is not. (It shouldn't be) - Colin

Not TOS from the intermediary - Ken Sheppardson

OH DONT LET THE STREAMS CROSS! - rob friedman

Leo, the first one to do the fire hose right will win - Gabe

But Ken, you don't own the permissions your friends set on their streams. - Cliff Gerrish

Cliff what does "own the permissions" mean? - Ken Sheppardson

They are in the sense that carriers are looking to impose transaction limits via bandwidth caps. - Altan Khendup

bah -- Leo's right. This is nothing. - John Moore

Its going to be interesting, to see what comes out of this and if the main Facebook users like it or if they will rebel - Kim Landwehr

Well at least there's still a hope for Friendfeed - Leo Laporte

Leo - We can only hope, we can only hope. - Mike Nayyar

this is industry hype - and one of the reasons I usually stay away from these meetings. You get caught in the reality distortion field. - Leo Laporte

Cliff they set their streams if they understand there are settings to manage other than FB defined defaults. - Debi Jones

Twitter already has the firehose; it's a matter of when they decide to open it up to everyone. - Albert Willis

not sure about others, but I see a lot of activity on facebook since the new design. my updates get way more comments/likes than retweets on twitter - Jamie

Leo, hype makes these companies money. - rob friedman

+1 Jamie - Stanislas Jourdan

Scoble hasn't gotten much in edgewise here - Mike Nayyar

I'd like to hear if we'll see mapped domains such as facebook.com/kevinrose for anyone's public profiles other than the web elite - Gabe

the issue is not to control who receives the info, but rather to give the markers so users can pick-n-choose that info (responding to what Chris M. was saying) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

albert, facebook have a firehose too. check out the lexicon stuff. their stuff is incredibly powerful as they overlay interests/demographics on top of it. - Jamie

Debi, someone needs to hold the settings -- could be an openID provider (Facebook) - or your blog. - Cliff Gerrish

HA! no limit - rob friedman

Cliff: I think that has to be metadata on the content, not something managed by the pipe. - Ken Sheppardson

No API limits could be a definite win for this platform - Mike Nayyar

I don't use Facebook much, really just to keep in touch with family an old college mates, can I follow someone who doesn't follow me? - Kim Landwehr

There it is, Thanks again Robert... Definitely a Facebook win! - Gabe

Kim - through the use of pages for public figures, but not beyond that - Mike Nayyar

That would explain @loic earlier saying he was getting updates every 20 seconds on his Seesmic Desktop. - Jalada

Kshep, where is the metadata attached, and based on what profile -- kept where? - Cliff Gerrish

Im sorry but I think Chris Messina is completely selling out. - Leo Laporte

Cliff: Part of the Atom payload - Ken Sheppardson

I guess I meant that there's not the concept of a public feed of everyone's public stuff on Facebook, because that's not how people currently use Facebook. - Albert Willis

there's the dialtone thing again - Steve Hampton

FriendFeed gets my Twitter updates faster than any Twitter Client. - rob friedman

Nope, Chris is the smartest guy in the room. - Albert Willis

fight fight - Jamie

SLAM - Ken Sheppardson

Agreed Cliff - my point is that most users of FB are likely unaware of these announcements and how they impact those settings and the need to re- examine them from time to time. - Debi Jones

Ouch Leo, lol, nice. - Colin

damn - coldbrew

*Leo tosses in the molotov* - Micah Wittman

Wow - Eevee

morin is stunned - Jamie

Leo that was Hot! - Debi Jones

ok then FF is of more use to me - Kim Landwehr

Not completely open? allowing custom URL? - rob friedman

What happened to the hug fest happy times?! - Mike Nayyar

Look at Steve giggling lol - Colin

Unprecedented for them, not unprecedented for the social space! - Mike Nayyar

yup - Ken Sheppardson

they have the firehose but there is no way to expose it given the privacy the site is built on - Jamie

That wine is making these guys a little too heady and caught up with what they're accomplishing - Mike Nayyar

Leo - You just hit the nail on the head... it's nothing more than allowing for 3rd party apps...so what - Kevin Whalen

LET HIM ANSWER, ROBERT - Ken Sheppardson

jeez - Ken Sheppardson

Let me run my own FaceBook which can talk to your FaceBook. and we can have hosted FaceBooks, like we have email. - rob friedman

Leo not to impressed is he - Kim Landwehr

this is just got interesting - Giancarlo Caparo

They aren't going to give a real answer. - John Moore

Way to make em' think Leo. - Colin

Kim - can we get a lolcat style picture of a Leo looking dissatisfied? - Mike Nayyar

This did just get interesting. - Derek Shanahan

Robert: Can you ask Dave... How long until I can push my entire Facebook stream to FriendFeed? - Ken Sheppardson

My content. - Ken Sheppardson

People forget how much 'education' the typical Facebook user needs. - Derek Shanahan

++Ken - Gabe

The issue of public/private granular control of messaging and scoping to persona -- that's the enterprise model. - Cliff Gerrish

Ask him the question again Leo? - Debi Jones

I think it's interesting that FB misses the boat as bad as they do with that obvious knowledge. FB has metadata in spades! twitter's handle on that is limited severely. - Sheryl

"Oh don't like the FB webpage?... Try one of these AIR-ware clients. or something to put a shine on your Data." Scoble, what about your plain blog theme... Don't people just want the data? - rob friedman

Robert: Please ask Dave when I can import my stream of updates/pics/notes from Facebook into FriendFeed. - Ken Sheppardson

I think the content is on their servers ;) - coldbrew

Scoble has a great question there - Mike Nayyar

+1 Ken pushing FB to FF - Micah Wittman

tell them i got dibbs on facebook.com/giancarlo - Giancarlo Caparo

+1 Ken - Kevin Whalen

There's the 24hr cache limit - Ken Sheppardson

Robert: Please ask Dave when I can import my stream of updates/pics/notes from Facebook into FriendFeed. - Ken Sheppardson

laughing at Scoble saying it's too much for him on the live stream. tooo much? LOL - Karoli

Who would ever need more than 24K/1000 hrs of data? - Micah Wittman

I can only store 24 hours of data? Well that's not good... - Colin

When can I take my friends contact information and export it to an address book to sync to my phone? Don't say Palm Pre! - Mike Nayyar

The reason for no limit API is to kneecap twitter. - rob friedman

If they produced the firehouse that both Steve and Leo asked for I could push to FF or anywhere else. Add context to a collection of streams and produce degrees of magnitude value laden content. - Debi Jones

There are tons of uses for storing data for more than 24 hours, if I could store a user's data for more than 24 hours I could make a search engine to put it together and run through it. - Colin

go leo! - Jim Mahon

what if they charged for syncing data or backing it up locally? Would you pay $20? - coldbrew

Darn, not a fan of that 24 hours. - Colin

Ken: the answer is: today. - Robert Scoble

Ken: Plaxo is doing just that, I believe. - Robert Scoble

Or people would just end up using a public profile and not care, know or notice. - rob friedman

Robert: They'll only let me use the data for 24hrs - Ken Sheppardson

I love that no one is letting him off the hook and asking the TOUGH questions. - Sheryl

So is the supposition that Facebook users are dummies? - Mike Nayyar

Wow Leo. Good stuff. - Albert Willis

wow, protecting the users? we need big bro to protect us? - Karoli

Translation: When they're bigger than Twitter. - Ken Sheppardson

oh boy, this friendfeed thing really sux. the real time craps out everytime the app loses focus - vondutch

Ken, don't you like renting your own data back from where you stored it? - rob friedman

no mike - but they bought into facebook on a certain level. you cant just change the operation - Jamie

Ken - bigger than Twitter, and people are idiots - Mike Nayyar

Isn't my data my data? - Karoli

Tangible number? What number? - Micah Wittman

Are they going to be developing their own Facebook clients? - Tweet Feeds

Chris of the open standards activity? - Ken Sheppardson

Wow, no answer like no answer! - Mike Nayyar

How does desktop application adoption reflective of user readiness - John Moore

Karoli: Apparently not. - Colin

Leo say's, Run don't Jog. - rob friedman

Hint: If you pay for the storage space, you get to keep your data. - coldbrew

Bear Hug Camp for one camper :) - Micah Wittman

no according to a lot of TOS your data once you put it on a site belong to that site and not you - Kim Landwehr

Nah, Steve, this was a boring day. - Mike Nayyar

Coldbrew: But you'd be violating their API terms of use. - Colin

it's important. just not important enough. - Karoli

Thanks, Leo - Ken Sheppardson

:) - rob friedman

The OpenID announcements -- were very important. - Cliff Gerrish

Yeah. There's always the next thing. Someone will do it. - coldbrew

That rocked Leo! - Colin

Great Show Leo, Steve, Robert - Matthew

Thanks again Leo. I feel all insidery now. - Mike Nayyar

damn. short episode - Jamie

yes, thanks for enabling us to actually see this live - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Ghost Light!! - Micah Wittman

No way! They called this a tea party? Wish I'd known that earlier. - Debi Jones

Now they go work on the next step of the open standard. - Ken Sheppardson

Lame annoucement. - Mike Nayyar

Leo--nice Arrington impersonation. - Albert Willis

The 24 limit on cacheing is the anchor chain. - Ken Sheppardson

They are now deciding the future of the internet without us watching ;) - Tweet Feeds

Leo - an API with no limits. - Cliff Gerrish

How long did the episode last? I tuned in at 20 past. - Daniel Rowley

waste of your day off - Jim Mahon

Really good show. - Sprague D

Cliff: There's a 24hr limit - Ken Sheppardson

Leo, my mom is on facebook, and she can't spell API - Mike Nayyar

Seesmic has reinvented their business in streams management, either from Twitter or Facebook. It may be a big player. - Jérôme Flipo

i forgot today was monday - Giancarlo Caparo

I liked that Leo pushed hard for more openness! - Adnan

Leo, I think all they did was put the pressure on twitter to open up the fire hose - Gabe

API based on open standards and using OpenID. That's pretty big. - Albert Willis

an API where all the useful data you can store for 24hrs max - that's not useful for anything except browsing users - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Having an API is not being open - Tweet Feeds

Me too Adnan - Debi Jones

This is step one. They will do more, but they want to be thoughtful of controlling their ability to generate revenue from the platform. - coldbrew

Ken, works for real time. And more history, that'll happen. - Cliff Gerrish

Facebook needs to leverage that contact information - Mike Nayyar

The 24hrs limit with increase. For sure. - Jérôme Flipo

they also implemented the activity strea.ms standard... but added a ton of custom calls in it. embrace and extend. - Jamie

You're right about the namespace - just seems a window of opportunity for *someone*. - Steven Livingstone-Pérez

Find ways to use that contact information, and location based apps, and then Facebook goes over the top - Mike Nayyar

Their business model crashes if they open it up, how do you make money off ads if no one uses Facebook.com... - Colin

But why limit it to 24hrs? There's some technical reason it can't be 36? 48? Indef? - Ken Sheppardson

Mike, the contact aspect isn't that important since Facebook has shifted from Profile to Feed - Jérôme Flipo

Hmm, since there is no API limits, why do they need more than 24 hours of cache? - rob friedman

I don't know anyone that doesn't look at pics 90% of the time on FB. - coldbrew

Let them use up more bandwidth - rob friedman

24hrs, cause you'll still have to go back to facebook.com for more. Not "that" open - Jérôme Flipo

Jerome - It's still a huge part of it, since many people who use it still use it as a rolodex and contact manager - Mike Nayyar

I expect an adjustment to the Twitter API call limits within the week - Gabe

Leo, you raised good points regarding the name space issues. As Messina has said, namespace is the new lock-in. - Albert Willis

Ken: It's not a technical reason, it's just a rule. - Colin

rob - because I can scan my internal data faster than a call to their api - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

24 hours is the current limit. Perhaps we could put an initiative on the Facebook ballot. - Cliff Gerrish

I agree Leo. They need to leverage their strengths before Twitter supersedes them and finds a way to become the definitive "brand" for social media. - Paul Maez

They will have lots more data coming in when they have 1 billion users, hoarding our data will make us take it elsewhere - Tweet Feeds

rob: They want to prevent people from mining the metadata and building value added services. Thta's the reason for the 24hr limit. - Ken Sheppardson

The contact manager is great for email-phonebook - Jérôme Flipo

Maybe longer-term data is where the money is -- for marketers, to track trends - Amyloo

Amyloo++ - Ken Sheppardson

but what if only 5% of people turn on the switch - Jamie

Ken, people will mine the data in less than 23 hours. - rob friedman

Twitter won't change it's API call limit until they can support something bigger or unlimited. - Albert Willis

Leo - how is "everybody" different from "public?" - Cliff Gerrish

You can store the meta-meta-data. - rob friedman

Amyloo hit on something huge there. Metadata analytics, that's where facebook will become a big bucks business. - Mike Nayyar

hmm - coldbrew

You need to make sure that you can turn the Public off and on when ever you want to and that its clear and concise - Kim Landwehr

Amyloo, temporary yes. But Twitter put pressure on FB for more. Wait for the Google-Twitter partnership on search. Facebook won't be able to follow without deep search. People are opening up their online life, they'll want more - Jérôme Flipo

Did anyone's stream just freeze? - Matthew

Anybody notice kevin rose saying digg is working on going realtime? - Adnan

By default Twitter is public right? - rob friedman

Matthew, mine did freeze, but it's back - Jérôme Flipo

Adnan - How would Digg benefit from going realtime at all though? - Mike Nayyar

So why did facebook hide the rss feed for my own status updates? - Kevin Whalen

twitter is definitely not open... - Jamie

Public means "print to the Network" - Cliff Gerrish

Mike: No idea... kevins interview was on techcrunch I believe - Adnan

good point kevin - Stanislas Jourdan

we need an smtp for this stuff - Jamie

Matthew, stream buffered 2 min. ago for me - Micah Wittman

Let me run my own FaceBook which can talk to your FaceBook. and we can have hosted FaceBooks, like we have email. - rob friedman

Mike: A prettier looking faster moving experience? - Colin

Twitter's API is more open (for now) than Facebook's. - Albert Willis

Oh, that's a perfect way to put it. - Francine Hardaway

myspace could make a comeback - Matthew

Colin - so I can see the 4chan of news flash by faster than ever before? Uh... - Mike Nayyar

I think the new positioning map is: Digg and Friendfeed on "discovering content", Facebook and Twitter on "contacts management". Friendfeed is in the middle. - Jérôme Flipo

myspace is dead, sorry - Jamie

Mike: I guess so lol... - Colin

MySpace could leverage things with openess and connect social to music, and partner with someone (Apple and iTunes), they could wipe the floor with Facebook - Mike Nayyar

Every public tweet is on the open web and can be indexed by Google. - Albert Willis

now that GAE has xmpp abilities and all of the Social Graph stuff - wire that to your Google Profile with some customizable widgets - boom - you have this Internet Dialtone - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

RSS has become a "thing-for-developers". Google Reader will die (even Google is moving to microblogging). RSS is still important, but in the background. - Jérôme Flipo

Twitter is already the message bus. - Albert Willis

Twitter's a pager for today (not my analogy) - Micah Wittman

Mike: Fast slideyness and getting to use the "real-time" buzzword, it's all the rage! ;) - Colin

Revision: "Public" means print to the Network/Google Search Index/Mashup fodder - Cliff Gerrish

i think they want to outsource the development of an API client - Stanislas Jourdan

An closed system will not work, the social internet needs an internet dial tone, and the most open system will control the namespaces. This is the only way that they can ever be as big as Google. If they don't do it, Google will - Tweet Feeds

I still use myspace only because I can customize my profile. FB doesnt do that - Giancarlo Caparo

myspace is gone imo. facebook see themselves in 2 years when they look at myspace. hence the operation to completely flip their business right now - Jamie

"An open system will not work" see SMTP - Ken Sheppardson

Colin - Oh jeez, just what I need! FriendFeed is where I'll stay, thank you very much. - Mike Nayyar

I doubt microblogging will grow outside of Twitter. Maybe for internal corporate usage (Jaiku style). - Jérôme Flipo

We love you too, Leo. - Mike Nayyar

smtp for status updates = the dial tone - Jamie

The network effects funnel into FF - Micah Wittman

Leo, I think the most important thing Dave mentioned was the ability to direct data to specific audiences - Gabe

Tweet Feeds :+++ - Johni Fisher

Twitter is where conversations get started. - Mike Nayyar

Twitter is not who follows you, its who you follow - Kim Landwehr

*waves and goes off to find some dinner* - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Twitter also has channels if you know how to find them. - John Moore

Gabe that's on the someday list - how is that important? - Debi Jones

Gabe, scoping messaging is the key. Public is an important mode, but not the only mode. - Cliff Gerrish

Gabe, they know Twitter doesn't have Lists. Facebook has it, people know they've their private groups, and FB want people to trust them for this "private audiences". - Jérôme Flipo

Twitter is the yellowpages? - coldbrew

That's a polite way of saying it Leo. - Mike Nayyar

Get the Grandparents on FriendFeed Leo! - rob friedman

Whitepages to come... - coldbrew

are you streaming it online leo? - robby

MySpace isn't dead. For certain audiences it's very useful. - John Moore

sorry john, but its dead in this space - Jamie

John Moore - teenagers of all shapes and sizes primarily, though - Mike Nayyar

John, for music business only. - Jérôme Flipo

myspace is back where it started - a place for musicians - Jamie

Jamie: true - Daniel Morgan

I like the angry Leo! - Albert Willis

Jamie - and that might be a better place for it to start and focus on - Mike Nayyar

Albert: :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Leo's questions were great in the Q&A with FB - Jérôme Flipo

Albert - Totally! - Mike Nayyar

Live is great. - Micah Wittman

Twitter is a general purpose message bus, someone with meta-data needs to control namespaces and the internet dial tone, whoever does that will be the internet...might be Google - Tweet Feeds

agree mike, but i see a LOT of artists moving to twitter. they dont have their music there sure, but the artist-fan interaction is moving to twitter (and FB to a lesser degree) - Jamie

Wow! That was abrupt. - Debi Jones

Tweet: It can be open, the same way email is open. We don't need a single, central, private aggregator - Ken Sheppardson

Jamie, I think we all agree on Myspace's death. Twitter + Facebook is the way to go. - Jérôme Flipo

Jamie - I see artists going to Twitter too, but MySpace is an excellent hub to find music, preview it and use an excellent exposure tool. Tons of indie bands and labels I listen to use MySpace as their first stop on the Internet, not their own website or blog. - Mike Nayyar

Ken, are you saying Twitter/Facebook/FriendFeed should be nationalized? - Cliff Gerrish

Cliff: Is email nationalized? - Ken Sheppardson

thats true mike... I was just trying to separate out the music discovery from the fan/artist interaction, which is what myspace was initially all about - Jamie

Ken, we don't need a single search engine, but still, we only use Google. One may be enough in the microblogging space. - Jérôme Flipo

So, the activity stream protocol is SMTP. - Cliff Gerrish

i like blip.fm for music more than myspace though - Giancarlo Caparo

Cliff, only if I can have an equity stake in all three. - Karoli

If anyone here wants to see a mini avatar next to comments on FF (realtime), check out my greasemonkey script: http://beta.friendfeed.com/micahwi... #shameless-plug - Micah Wittman

so if myspace is left with music discovery, then its going to be getting it from spotify, last fm etc - Jamie

Can someone give me a brief explanation as to how Facebook could make their API more open? What aspects are they currently holding back? - Daniel Rowley

Mike : lastfm seems good for artists - Stanislas Jourdan

It should be P2P and open source. - coldbrew

Imagine if Google said you could connect to Gmail with any client via their IMAP API, but you can only cache your email locally on your desktop for 24hrs. - Ken Sheppardson

Music is 5% of online activity, guys (made up stat, but probably right) - Jérôme Flipo

Karoli, I'll see if I can talk to somebody about that... - Cliff Gerrish

Ken not sure I like the email analogy - because who today is in a position to provide consumer email solutions? - Debi Jones

Debi: What do you mean by a "consumer email solution"? - Ken Sheppardson

Stanislas - Last.fm is good for indexing your tastes, but it's not the best place to go as a headquarters for the artists themselves - Mike Nayyar

You can have your "node" and a domain name on a server for $30/yr - coldbrew

Jerome - It might not be a major driver of traffic, but it's the surest way to make immediate cash and actionable results for building community. That's how myspace grew in the first place. - Mike Nayyar

not sure I agree mike - last fm is often a better place to go than an artists myspace page - Jamie

There are possibilities to runs an email server is you're savvy enough, there are value added enterprise solutions - but who are the three companies large enough to manage email inboxes for consumers? - Debi Jones

Ken, good analogy. That would be great for developers, but users would stay on gmail.com. That's why FB doesn't fear this opening move. Good for developer, more Facebook Connect, but people remain inside FB's walls - Jérôme Flipo

the place it falls down is when an artist uploads new tracks... they wont hit last fm until they are released - Jamie

+1 coldbrew - node/domain name - Micah Wittman

Ken, your data is yours. You can keep a copy before you send it Facebook. You can send it to two services. Once it's custodied by Facebook, it's under their TOS. Just use the original. - Cliff Gerrish

Mike : disagree. Lastfm is a good place for promoting its band (free listenning, events, wiki, photos, video etc) - Stanislas Jourdan

Cliff: I agree with you there... that's why I don't publish anything natively in Facebook. - Ken Sheppardson

Jamie - And that's another place where MySpace can win. They already do plenty of exclusive previews, interviews, events etc - Mike Nayyar

Mike, "immediate cash": Youtube understood this, recently. - Jérôme Flipo

Debi: You have choice. I'm not saying you should have N choices, but you do, in fact, have choice. And you can move from one solution to another with only technological friction, not data licensing issues. - Ken Sheppardson

true. but I think we can reach a conclusion that myspace is back to being a music site. they are out of this particular game. - Jamie

Cliff: ... but I resent Facebook turning around and purporting to be open. - Ken Sheppardson

Stanislas - I don't disagree Last.fm is a good resource, but the familiarity and mindshare of MySpace are inherently larger and therefore more useful. - Mike Nayyar

Jamie : too late? Now they'va many competitors. Mike : yes for that - Stanislas Jourdan

Santiago, if all you contribute in this thread is a plug, it's not going to play well in this crowd. - Micah Wittman

And with another "work day" shot, I really need to unplug... sigh... - Ken Sheppardson

My audience is interested in horror movies and books. Myspace is still a huge spot for that audience -- though twitter is coming on strong, it's still not as strong as myspace in that group. - John Moore

Later folks. - Ken Sheppardson

Fun times. - Ken Sheppardson

Ken - Unplug? What's that? - Mike Nayyar

Ken, it's a matter of degree. They're moving from Private to Public - they need to extend granular controls. Twitter is black or white. And becoming an OpenID relying party isn't something Google is willing to do. - Cliff Gerrish

Bye, kshep - Micah Wittman

Facebook never wanted to go open. It has to, because of Twitter. Some other players can benefit from this move, like Friendfeed, Seesmic and Google. I'm quite disapointed with Google, actually. Many bad decisions on activity stream. - Jérôme Flipo

Ken don't hate FB too much - mobile carriers bastardize the terms web 2.0 and open on a daily basis. I think there's just a tipping point when companies get to a certain size where they are too big to let live. ISPs, carriers, social nets and banks. - Debi Jones

See ya ken. - Cliff Gerrish

can you explain further Jerome? - Stanislas Jourdan

Google may reserve their move to "search and monetization" only. No app for microblogging, except. - Jérôme Flipo

Debi: I spread my disdain around pretty evenly, I think . ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

Hey Debi - I wanted to get your take on this. I think that telecoms and banks are headed for a mashup/consolidation. Telecom is the pipe for payments/transactions. - Cliff Gerrish

They killed Jaiku, didn't pay for Twitter. They're waiting for something. An ad deal maybe. - Jérôme Flipo

Wait Cliff - about Gmail? - Debi Jones

Regulation of social networks? - coldbrew

Google has a tendency to buy small companies and then kill them by ignoring them. - Kim Landwehr

coldbrew - So that's OpenID sort of does, right? - Mike Nayyar

i dont think google gets social. its an inherent thing - Jamie

OpenID doesn't regulate, it's just trying to be on the menu. - Micah Wittman

Kim, yes and no. They're smart. They don't want to buy a next Youtube-like company (big audience, little money). They want the monetization service for microblogging. - Jérôme Flipo

mobile banking and mobile payments is not around the corner - too many skirmishes among "owners" of their customers. Carriers always insist upon ownership of customer then there's Visa, Master Card and then the banks. It's a nightmare at the moment. - Debi Jones

Jamie, they don't want, but what about Open Social? iGoogle? Latitude? - Jérôme Flipo

Visa has an Android app for P2P payment - Jérôme Flipo

all 3 of those confirm my thoughts jerome - Jamie

Nayyar: Presumably, but there is no great "wordpress-like" way to install an 'instance' for self-hosting. - coldbrew

open social is a waste of time - Jamie

Cliff you will see other countries with less financial complexity doing allot with mobile payments today. Just not imminent for the US sadly. - Debi Jones

Debi, So a telecom buys a bank, or a bank/credit card buys a telecom. There are enough shaky players that something could be mashed up. - Cliff Gerrish

Jerome - I agree with Jamie's points on those 3 services. They're throw away, attempts to show that Google cares, but they get little attention after the initial buzz - Mike Nayyar

Jamie, Open Social is a huge success. Let me explain - Jérôme Flipo

Debi - sorta like eBay buying Skype, but something that actually works. - Cliff Gerrish

Some countries will speed ahead in the mobile territory because they don't have widespread internet like the US. For some mobile is the only option. - Matthew

please do - Jamie

Having a bank doesn't get the cooperation of all the parties to settlement that must agree on a standard for transactions. - Debi Jones

Open Social isn't a service in itself. It a long term strategy to force Facebook to open up its social graphs. - Jérôme Flipo

Matthew - India is the primary use case for this point - Mike Nayyar

Ah, then Visa has to buy Sprint. - Cliff Gerrish

but twitter is driving that, not open social - Jamie

FB was a huge threat if they decided to stay close. - Jérôme Flipo

LOL What about people who hold Master Cards or Discover? - Debi Jones

That's the reason for those Open initiatives. That's why Google support Twitter. That's why they push on Portable Contacts, Friend Connect, etc. - Jérôme Flipo

I don't think Sprint is healthy enough to buy Visa - maybe the other way around though. - Debi Jones

That's where I see a consolidation. The Network is the transaction carrier. - Cliff Gerrish

Gerrish: Those two entities have been feuding for a long time abouot how to bring NFC payments (e.g. mastercard paypass) to cell phones. I don''t think these people can fathom the notion you describe. - coldbrew

of course they are huge proponents of pushing the open agenda - Jamie

It will come eventually yes. - Debi Jones

Screenshot (30 seconds ago) of miniavatars script in use http://skitch.com/micahwi... - Micah Wittman

Google doesn't really care about "owning" the next big social service. They just don't want a close network that could integrate search (look at the MSFT-Facebook partnership), which could use social graph to personalize search results. - Jérôme Flipo

That would give Visa a competitive advantage - use your Visa phone to pay for purchases at these fine locations. - Cliff Gerrish

but thats because they themselves dont *get* social... its a space they just wont win in. so what better way to get something out of this by forcing these services to open up for indexing - Jamie

I see a surge in cell phone theft - Matthew

Long time coming...still waiting. you want a link? - coldbrew

Well, it's been real people. I gotta head off and take care of some business. Had tons of fun! - Mike Nayyar

Any Japanese folks here. *They* know about mobile payment - Jérôme Flipo

++Jamie agree that where Google head is at - Kim Landwehr

coldbrew they absolutely can fathom it - they've been dancing with each other for several years putting forward the solution that ensures - pick a side - that the customer ownership isn't compromised by the solution. - Debi Jones

Matthew, pretty easy to turn a phone off. - Cliff Gerrish

I dont know anybody who uses plaxo - Jamie

Jamie, I agree. But Open Social and other social initiatives are successes: not for the audience, but for forcing Facebook to open up. That's their implicit strategy, and they succeed. - Jérôme Flipo

Jones: I haven't heard of that at all. Link? - coldbrew

coldbrew do you have access to Google? - Debi Jones

Later folks. Nice thread. - Cliff Gerrish

see ya, Cliff - Micah Wittman

see you cliff - Jamie

No. My keyboard is broke. Digital Transactions doesn't rank well but is good, but anyway - coldbrew

disagree frank - Jamie

Frank, come on. I'm in France, 99% of Internet users don't know Twitter. They aren't ready for openness. - Jérôme Flipo

And Facebook use huge outside the US. - Jérôme Flipo

I agree with what Dave said Frank - Jamie

Try mobile payments OR pick a carrier name and Visa or Master Card, etc. - Debi Jones

Still not finding any good articles on GOOG yet - coldbrew

look at the uproar that occurs when facebook changes the smallest of things on the site - Jamie

Okay - Great Job, Leo! And thanks. Bye all. - Debi Jones

Bye Jones. - Jérôme Flipo

I know the space well, and rpeviously dealt directly with MC and VISA. - coldbrew

yet here we are asking them to make everything public. - Jamie

Jamie, and they'll do it. - Jérôme Flipo

Cya Kenster - Debi Jones

I agree... but its a lot more complicated and political than flipping a switch - Jamie

Jones:Though I can't type, you are wrong about bank +telco idea. - coldbrew

Twitter's big media coverage is helping Facebook explaining their users why to go open - Jérôme Flipo

See Oprah's last show. - Jérôme Flipo

not sure I agree there jerome - Jamie

I dont think its the openness that attracts people to twitter - Jamie

it keeps them there - Jamie

asynchronous follow is what attracts people to twitter. being "friends" with people you are interested in, rather than just those who you know - Jamie

don't understand you're point Jamie. I'm on twitter for the openness & it keeps me there (also because everyone is not on FF BTW) - Stanislas Jourdan

Jamie, but Facebook has fan pages! That's asynchronous friendship. They just added SMS alerts for Fan pages status change. Just like Twitter. - Jérôme Flipo

fan pages are a bolt on - Jamie

asynchronous follow is the very foundation of twitter - Jamie

"bolt on". What do you mean (non-native speakers here!). - Jérôme Flipo

hmmm... kind of like an add-on. - Jamie

Jamie: I hope you understand that the '-chronous' indicates some relation to time. I think you mean asymmetrical? - coldbrew

lol, yes. its 2:40am here - Jamie

fair enough - coldbrew

Come on, it's 3:38 here :) - Jérôme Flipo

Fan pages will become very important even if people won't see that - Stanislas Jourdan

hold on Jérome ;-) - Stanislas Jourdan

;) - coldbrew

:D - Jérôme Flipo

id be way asleep - coldbrew

I was asleep but woke for the gillmor gang. sad I know. - Jamie

I've a marketing strategy presentation in 4 hours. Not prepared yet. But "bolt on" is more important than my Master degree ;) - Jérôme Flipo

wow, forget what i said Jérome - Stanislas Jourdan

jerome is hardcore lol - Jamie

I saw Fred Wilson use asynchronous in the same context the other day, and defend it by saying, "that's what the developers called it" :P - coldbrew

it could be seen as asynchronous if you was talking about the timeline. I know its a stretch... lol :-) - Jamie

I think understanding the difference is key to understanding the different value propositions - coldbrew

going to sleep... see you guys and thanks for good discussion :) - Stanislas Jourdan

Asymmetric = public, Symmetric = Private (but this has further gradations) - coldbrew

see you stanislas - Jamie

coldbrew - you can have private asymmetric though, and vice versa - Jamie

It's redefining SMTP, without respect to time, and that's why people keep bringing up these proven delivery protocols. - coldbrew

See you cousin! - Jérôme Flipo

Symmetric, to me, means one has to "approve it", so I guess I cut off one use-case - coldbrew

go to work now! - Stanislas Jourdan

Hey, did we wake you up, Stan? - Jérôme Flipo

it's not work, it's fun - coldbrew

I made the assumption that the only scenario in which one would have an asymmetric relationship for content would be one where there is very little RL relation - coldbrew

it was a feign to force you to shut FF ;-) Personally, i'm on holidays :) - Stanislas Jourdan

a reasonable assumption to make - Jamie

Stan, I can't leave you alone in this dangerous place. Holidays or not, it's not safe. - Jérôme Flipo

Anyone able to have Twit Conversation to show up in the separate Groups in beta.friendfeed? I can not - Greg

I'm not using beta. - coldbrew

Real-time, refular site - coldbrew

Ugh - coldbrew

the reason I said that Facebook Pages is a bolt on is because its up to the user as to whether they go with a regular profile and a page. the very nature of a page and having "fans" indicates this is something just for celebrities to use... which only make up a subset of the use case for asymmetrical follow - Jamie

lol, ok daddy :P but please tell me your marketing mark then! - Stanislas Jourdan

Yes, but "bloggers" et. al may want to become micro-celebs on a micro-blogger? - coldbrew

Greg, nope. There's a bug somewhere. - Matthew

Ahem - coldbrew

Stan, it's a group work :D - Jérôme Flipo

Meaning some "nobodies" like attention and want to drive it their way. - coldbrew

Thanks Matthew appears #Leo does not know about it since yesterday he mentioned about the Twit Conversations showing up under Groups. - Greg

Jamie, you're right. But asymmetrical friendship for non-celebrities are not very common, aren't they? - Jérôme Flipo

LOL Jérôme! no. seriously, this time... i'm gonna rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrzzzrrrrr - Stanislas Jourdan

So, Twitter becomes a place for commercial relations (yellow pages) and white label services are dristrubuted (white pages). - coldbrew

Just like your SIP/ Skype phone #. - coldbrew

an Google voice - coldbrew

Jerome... im thinking of asymmetrical friendship by interest. so how Twitter exploded with the tech scene. - Jamie

Jamie, for sure Facebook has something to change here. Could they add asymmetrical friendship while keeping the actual system in place? - Jérôme Flipo

Nah, the protocol wont be topic based. Not like usenet. - coldbrew

the ability to follow and converse with the woman implementing activity streams at myspace for example. she has 150 followers but her work is of interest to me. - Jamie

why not? every facebook profile has interests listed. what if I could browse by interest in a particular location. - Jamie

Will myspace (FIM) make an offer for Twitter? - coldbrew

@ jerome that is the golden question and no doubt one they are trying to figure out. their entire company depends on finding that answer. - Jamie

activity streams taking over - Jay Neff

is that a rumour coldbrew? - Jamie

Nope.\ - coldbrew

I could definitely see old Rupert opening his chequebook - Jamie

Yep - coldbrew

A "private tab" would make it. Private means "symmetrical", "public" means not symmetrical (nice explanation, isn't?) - Jérôme Flipo

That check would have a lot of zeros - Matthew

Twitter isn't to sell - Jérôme Flipo

9 of them - Jamie

Ev has enough money, he just want to be the next Rupert - Jérôme Flipo

leo, there's no audio on the bitgravity stream.... or it's VERY low - Josh Betz

Betz: It is over,man. - coldbrew

Facebook also has current email, dob, phone#, movies, etc - Jay Neff

FB has my legal name which is its primary asset/ - coldbrew

jay - their biggest strength (extensive profile data/social graph) is what is holding them back. - Jamie

Jay, who's updating those info (except email and mobile)? - Jérôme Flipo

it will be updated now with all these activity streams, netflix, the newest book you are reading, etc - Jay Neff

ANyone giving netflix data is lots more trusting than I am. - coldbrew

I think most websites will have some type of activity streams that you can bring into fb, ff, etc - Jay Neff

Not sure for FF, Jay. Or only scobleizer.com ;) - Jérôme Flipo

This will all be 'commoditized' like wordpress did blogs, and godaddy hosting. - coldbrew

morin looks young - Jamie

Scoble article following the show: http://scobleizer.com/2009... - Jérôme Flipo

"Reason #1, though, is that Zuckerberg hasn’t yet figured out how to change user expectations from having everything private by default to having everything public by default, the way Twitter and friendfeed work." - Jérôme Flipo

That's was our "golden question" - Jérôme Flipo

there is another route for FB to get the money - Jamie

they could create a monstrous ad network off the back of the social graph and facebook connect - Jamie

Oops, the article seems to have been written before the show - Jérôme Flipo

FB might not be able to tell me how many friends liked this sushi restaurant, but Yelp can with Facebook Connect - Jamie

Not everyone will ever want things completly public. - coldbrew

Paul Buchheit: “It’s not about defaults, it’s about ownership. On Facebook, you are not allowed to give other people access to your data, because your data belongs to Facebook. On FriendFeed or Twitter, you can choose to be public or private, but either way you can still access your data and do what you want with it.” - Jérôme Flipo

its funny how attitudes to privacy change though - Jamie

or rather, how quickly they change. - Jamie

People don't wont to see a service goes from private to public. They can adopt a public service like Twitter, but are scared about Facebook opening up. That's brand image. - Jérôme Flipo

that about sums it up. if Facebook was to start again today I dont think they would have too much of a problem getting buy-in on being a public service - Jamie

Jamie, exactly. I hope future entrepreneurs will remember the lesson: Don't held data hostage. Don't build walls. - Jérôme Flipo

I don't think its necessarily a lesson at Facebooks expense.... in order to get the profile information back in 2004 it had to be private. peoples attitudes were different back then. It was the right move to make at the time. but things change so quickly. - Jamie

and at the same time, twitter wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the pioneering work facebook did - Jamie

http://activitystrea.ms - Jay Neff

Thanks for this great discussion. I've to go! See you all. - Jérôme Flipo

And Jamie, I support you second statement. But still, Facebook should have put such restrictive TOS for data sharing. They're screwed, now. - Jérôme Flipo

im out too. see you. - Jamie

lol yeah, you guys were a bit rough! - Jay Neff

great job with the presser. very revealing. (and thanks for dropping the beta prefix on the friendfeed. i had no idea it existed before.) - Brian Dols

"You know that you stand for something when someone publicly accuses you of selling out. http://tr.im/soldout (via http://ff.im/2pFjy)" -- Chris Messina - Ken Sheppardson

OK - I went overboard and I'm sorry. I guess that seeing the creator of Barcamp hob-nobbing at Foocamp then, a couple of days later, helping to promote Facebook made me a little queasy, but Chris is one of the good guys. I'm sure he's just glad that Facebook is using OAuth - and spells it right. - Leo Laporte

Leo's questions were challenging and bring some downsides to light. Critical thinking FTW! - Jérôme Flipo

Well, I appreciate you giving me a hard time Leo. I just wish I actually made some more money from selling out! Ha! Srsly, if you want to make change, I think you have to be willing to try a lot of different things. I think as long as you can try new things without losing your integrity and connection to where you came from, it's fine. But then, I would say that given that I'm here and you're... there. ;) - Chris Messina

Glad there's no hard feelings, Chris. It's perfectly reasonable to encourage openness in these companies - and if you get more traction working with them more power to you. I just hope they're sincere about what they're doing. We don't need any more walled gardens. - Leo Laporte

Sorry to go off topic, but aren't social networking sites/tools like facebook, twitter, and myspace in a place to do a great public good by leveraging their databases of user locations and contact into to push information to persons in regions known to have swine flu outbreaks on good habits for avoiding infection. Some people just have to be told to stay home and not spread germs; those folks show up to work sick and sneeze, cough, and otherwise share their infections. - Joseph(PhotoJoe)

TWiT Conversations: Leo Laporte

Live now: The Gillmor Gang on the Facebook Open Stream API with Mike Arrington, Robert Scoble, Andrew Keen, Dan Farber, and Steve Gillmor. Discuss here....

April 28 - Comment - Like - Share

Matt Thompson, Michael Hansel, Daniel Rowley and 12 other people liked this

I kinda thought I heard the code on air. - Christian Collins

160 more comments

Saw that coming, I can't lip read properly and I could just about make out the ID of the call. - Jalada

I did hear the code on the air. It's out FYI. - Mike Lewis

And the announcer said "6 callers". - Christian Collins

If you're "internet dialtone" you have to extract yourself from the conversation. You can't claim a license on content. If AT&T claimed to own our calls/voicemail or Google claimed to have a license on our email, users would be livid. - Ken Sheppardson

Matter of fact Facebook is #1 photo download site - Karma Martell

Chris: Steve mistakenly gave the code out on air. :-/ - Ken Sheppardson

++ KShep - Debi Jones

Tina says it's taken care of now. - Ken Sheppardson

leo, in Skype video, right click on the video and click turn off return video or something to take off the PIP in Skype - Andrew Martin

love Scoble reactions in background. - Kim Landwehr

You know Ken, the dialtone just might be an even better metaphor for Twitter than email is. - Debi Jones

They got RickRolled. dayum - Josh Haley

That Scoble, he can bust a move. - Mike Lewis

Let's welcome our newest Gillmor Gang member: Rick Astley - Ken Sheppardson

and Scoble's dancing to it. Whoa - Josh Haley

Leo, most of us are a wonderful audience. We respect you! We're not all idiots. :( - Lise

Kids - Christian Collins

Yeah ya gotta love that white boy dancing from Scoble. LOL - Debi Jones

Intelligent conversation, archaically technically presented: The Gillmor Gang on the Facebook Open Stream API with Mike Arrington, Robert Scoble, Andrew Keen, Dan Farber, and Steve Gillmor on http://live.twit.tv and http://twit.am/listen - Gregg Scott

Why can't facebook do private and public 'zones' I like the circle of friends privacy but would like to have a separate public stream so I can use only one 'account' to do everything. - Michael Olsen

They really should call this show The Grumpy Gang. - Trevor Childs

Re: their churn rate, Nick Carr says Twitter "may turn out to be the CB radio of Web 2.0" http://www.roughtype.com/archive... - Sprague D

I love Leo, but I get the feeling some of the gang are nodding off perhaps... - Trevor Childs

Jeez.... - Ken Sheppardson

Why can't facebook do private and public 'zones' I like the circle of friends privacy but would like to have a separate public stream so I can use only one 'account' to do everything. - Michael Olsen

Scoble, save them - Josh Haley

Here we go... - Ken Sheppardson

I agree with Scoble - prefer Twitter & FF,.. and it's ALL about search - Karma Martell

People that loved AOL love Facebook - Karma Martell

lol - Jay Neff

That 24 hour is massive right there, means I won't do anything with Facebook - Colin

Why not? - Josh Haley

Facebook wants to encourage folks to build clients to build their traffic. Pretty much end of story. - Ken Sheppardson

Chris White: Are you afraid of being put on trial? - Josh Haley

Yeah, there's something in between, Chris. - Ken Sheppardson

Chris White: 20 years...whoa, I can't think past the next 3 months. - Josh Haley

Chris White: Is that really why you did the other day? - Josh Haley

Too late, Chris. I sorta got over that when Deja News started archiving Usenet, the Google bought them, and now stuff I said in 1988 is searchable. - Ken Sheppardson

Chris White: Wow, as a strategy. really, that is interesting. - Josh Haley

And ineffective. - Ken Sheppardson

Or maybe it is... don't know what repos are out there, really... - Ken Sheppardson

Chris White: I don;t suppose you would want to come on the FFundercats podcast and go on permanent record and discuss it ;) - Josh Haley

hi from georgia - daveccorey

Chris White: Didn;t think so, considering. But I had to try - Josh Haley

wtf - Jay Neff

nah, lot of AOLers are slow to social media. trust me I give plenty of seminars and see first hand - Karma Martell

kaboom - F bombs fall - Debi Jones

Chris White: So just a pseudonymn? - Josh Haley

FCC fines on the way... - Sprague D

Sprague: FCC has no control over this. Or were you kidding? - Ken Sheppardson

Kidding. ;-) - Sprague D

let's just say I believed you.. there are exceptions. so what is your fave social media? This here thingy? At some point they all give a whooshing, time sucking sound. - Karma Martell

Bah. Pruned that, sorry :-/ - Ken Sheppardson

That's okay Ken. I'm thinking of pruning this whole thread. - Cristo

steve is there - Tina Chase Gillmor

Mike gave Loren good advice. - Debi Jones

I'm sorta relieved to be in a line of work where I'm never surprised or disappointed that people I meet have never heard of me. - Ken Sheppardson

Smack. - Ken Sheppardson

They talked about Vine at Facebook last night... - Ken Sheppardson

...didn't they? - Ken Sheppardson

Robert Scoble is asymmetrically my friend. Nah. - Jérôme Flipo

Here's Tatango's elevator pitch from Techcrunch: http://pitches.techcrunch.com/pitch... - Ken Sheppardson

For dogs, and balls, and chilren? - Jérôme Flipo

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008... - Ken Sheppardson

But does Tatango support Open Social and Activitystrea.ms? - Ken Sheppardson

Did you can receive your invitation for Vince. I got nothing. - Jérôme Flipo

I'll take it. - Ken Sheppardson

I'll take it as well - Matthew

Should I use the code to call in? - Ken Sheppardson

ask for the BB? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken I triple dog dare! LOL - Debi Jones

This is one of the funniest GGs in quite a while. - Francine Hardaway

It's picked up, that's for sure. - Ken Sheppardson

You really should call in and ask Mike for the BB - Debi Jones

Scoble, that's not your living room. Where are you? - Francine Hardaway

O. M. G. ... I have a tatango account. - Ken Sheppardson

"Is your refridgerator running?" - Matthew

Francine - GG is always really good when Mike A is on. - Debi Jones

Do you think anyone cares what your phone number is, Leo? I bet we could find it if we wanted to - Francine Hardaway

Tatango did an Elevator Pitch for Techcrunch - Ken Sheppardson

Chris: And I say this with all due respect, and not in the typical anti-troll way... you could do something else. :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Hasn't been enough Twitter mocking yet. - Ken Sheppardson

There we go... that'll wrap it. - Ken Sheppardson

We need a Laconica or JaikuEngine instance specifically for Swine Flu discussion. - Ken Sheppardson

nothing will kill this show - Tina Chase Gillmor

Chris: Nah. - Ken Sheppardson

If I don't go Steve's not going - Tina Chase Gillmor

What event are they talking about? - Jérôme Flipo

LeWeb? - Jérôme Flipo

Yes, LeWeb - Ken Sheppardson

hahahaha - Matthew

OK, I hate to miss the web site critique section of the program, but... gotta go. - Ken Sheppardson

Is Scoble sucking up to Winer with that blog format? - Tina Chase Gillmor

hold the door, Ken - Josh Haley

Heh. Later all. - Ken Sheppardson

GReader is dead? - Matthew

Why do these guys always seem like an ad for not using the Internet? - Cristo

We are just intelligent - Francine Hardaway

It looks like Arrington is in a Mexican prison cell or something. - Andrew Leyden

Waterboarding Mike? - Jérôme Flipo

I thought he was in a doctor's examining room - Francine Hardaway

Maybe it's a Swine Flu quarantine facility. - Andrew Leyden

And he has no mask. Did you buy the swine flu patch for Skype, by the way? - Jérôme Flipo

Don't buy a mask. They don't do any good - Francine Hardaway

I thought Scoble had to dump the branding for his advertiser Seagate and the Fastcompany stuff. Waiting for the launch of Building 43 in June and that branding, right? - Debi Jones

hI. - Jesskay (jess)

http://beta.friendfeed.com/latimes... - Jérôme Flipo

These men are quite needy - Daniel King

@Kingy :-) - Sprague D

kingy? - Jesskay (jess)

I saw a conspiracy theory that said it was an assassination attempt on Obama when he went to Mexico. These conspiracy guys can get pretty wacky. - Andrew Leyden

Bummer! I've been trying to avoid the Fear Factor on MSM all day. Now it's here on GG. bah! - Debi Jones

Who is coming to Arizona tomorrow and why? - Francine Hardaway

bye all - Jesskay (jess)

Farber's smart, he should talk more. - Sprague D

Dan is damn good, yeah. We should pay him a coffee. - Jérôme Flipo

There are theories that the flu was cultured in a lab, there are theories it was done by the pharma companies, and then the same old same old New World Order tyranny thing. - Andrew Leyden

u say bye back? - Jesskay (jess)

Farber doesn't talk more because he IS smart. - Francine Hardaway

Could the world be coming to an end? - Francine Hardaway

Farber likes to lay back and comes in only when he really wants to - Tina Chase Gillmor

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