i wonder why they don't ask people before they put them on the list? maybe they just assume that everyone wants to be on the list - Chris Heath

I will do the same, if I get put on the Twitter list. - Robert Scoble

I think I asked the last time there was a similar conversation - so please excuse the question if it was already asked - but why would you want to be removed? Am I missing something? Since I don't really use Twitter maybe there is something I do not understand. - LPH™ and his dog P™

LPH: I will refuse to be on this list for three reasons: 1. it's not a meritocracy. That means that my inclusion on it will raise questions about whether I did something behind the scenes to get on the list. 2. It is a gift from a company I would like to cover journalistically in the future. If I got the "gift" of being on the list I could no longer do that and keep my own integrity. 3. Being on the list gets you huge amounts of unenaged followers. I really am not in this game just for numbers. - Robert Scoble

...you're a man of principle, Dave Winer. - .LAG liked that

LPH: Go to TechCrunch's followers. Look at the engagement level. Most of his followers don't even put a picture on their avatars. Now go to mine and compare. The engagement level is HUGELY different. I'm paid to get an engaged audience, not an audience of bots or an audience of people who don't participate in the Internet. - Robert Scoble

LPH: TechCrunch's followers: http://twitter.com/TechCru... My followers: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... -- what differences do you notice? Look for signs of engagement. What are those? 1. Have the members put a photo on the avatar? 2. Have the members actually done a tweet or two? 3. Have the members actually followed anyone on their own (organic following?) - Robert Scoble

Robert - now that makes sense. I just don't use Twitter enough and am used to FF engagement. Guess I'm spoiled ! - LPH™ and his dog P™

LPH: now do you see the problem Twitter is facing here? http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsen... -- lots of hype, not enough engagement. It's engagement that advertisers will pay for, not the hype. - Robert Scoble

Or, visit this article about non engagement: http://features.csmonitor.com/innovat... - Robert Scoble

Hint: this list is actually making things worse for Twitter's returns and engagement. Here's why: 1. If you get onto Twitter because of a celebrity, that's great, but I've found people get very fickle about celebrities. Go to @oprah, for instance. Is there anything really that interesting there to read day after day after day? I don't see it. But what if your best friend is on Twitter? Yes, I find following my close friends on Twitter day after day IS interesting and DOES get me back to the service. - Robert Scoble

2. Twitter seems to only endorse "celebrities" on its recommended follower list. Well, that tells normal users that they don't matter to the system as much as celebrities. So they feel less engaged/empowered. Compare this to Facebook where celebrities only can have 5,000 friends. Now everyone is on the same level and the system "feels" more intimate and engaging because of that. - Robert Scoble

Great point Robert, and that's another reason why sites like Facebook (and in the past MySpace, Friendster, etc) are 'sticky' ... people you actually know are there. Most people will be more engaged with people they actually know - i for one don't engage with celebs on twitter because i know they're not going to engage with me - Chris Heath

bet that if twitter had a "best-of-the-day" feed like, no celebrity will on it. twitter is becoming less conversational. pity :( - Shivanand Velmurugan

Chris: right! Plus, this list really penalizes the real users of the service (this is why Allen Stern's points about friendfeed's list being bad are starting to win me over). Those who put the most time into the service should be rewarded by that service. I've been on Twitter 890 days. The fact that someone else is on the recommended list that's only been on for 15 days really pisses me off and makes me more likely to go elsewhere. - Robert Scoble

Shivanand: right, and it would be a lot better for engagement to have something like http://alltop.com/ which recommends people based on your content interests. If I want to hook into people who are into quilting, why would such a system recommend Mike Arrington to me? - Robert Scoble

i'm texting scoble from my iphone and it's mangling every goddam word - Dave Winer

The other thing about 'recommended' is For What? I might like Robert, but not if I'm looking for hollywood dish. same w/ jay, obviously. - reed price

Dave: the iPhone keyboard does that. (I'm on the phone with him now). - Robert Scoble

I've never found the suggested users list to be useful, on Twitter or FriendFeed. Frankly, I don't care if you're "just some guy/girl" or if you're God...if you don't say anything that interests me or teaches me something new, I'm not going to look for what you have to say. If you put all the numbers aside and make connections on a one-to-one basis, even though it's accessible one-to-many, that's worth finding. - Sally: gift wrapper

The celebrity suggested user lists completely miss the point of Twitter, implying it's a broadcast system - which is a minority use case. Services like Mr Tweet are far more apposite. Even random selections might get you started better! - Tom de Grunwald

A friend of mine joined Twitter and had list of "friends" and she didn't know who they were. It's like moving to a new address and getting a bunch of junk the first time you open the mail box. - Tom Newman

Tom, they're not really "friends", you're following a person, they may be friends, they may not. I know, picky, picky, picky. - Rob Fahrni

Reed, i totally agree... suggested lists are a nice thing to have, but only when you know why the suggestion is being made. - Chris Heath

Maybe a better model for a suggested list would be to look at more than number of subscriptions/follows - look at how many posts/comments - on FF they could also look at how many services or what services - if i post a lot from a service then the suggested list should maybe show me more people from that service ... one thing i will agree is that a suggested list is a hard thing to do because you can't please everyone with your suggestions ... just look where we are now... - Chris Heath

Even though I respect your reasons, I still can't believe you did it. It's such a huge opportunity. Yes but I do see what Scoble is saying. it would be impossible to criticize them. - Stephen Pickering

Oh my bad, It was Jay Rosen. I thought it was Dave Winer. Oh well, same difference. I can totally understand him. He's a journalist. What would be interesting to see though is if he remained on the list but remained totally objective and criticized them when it was appropriate and see if they then took him off. - Stephen Pickering

NICE: @anonymoustom: "celebrity suggested user lists miss the point of Twitter, implies broadcast system, a minority use case" - .LAG liked that

Dave, why do you think they put you on the list? - Thomas Hawk

Thomas: Dave wasn't put on the list, Jay Rosen was. I bet he was put on the list because he's one of the best Twitterers around and because he doesn't do anything "negative" in their eyes, like talk about friendfeed or overload users with too many tweets. - Robert Scoble

Don't forget the fact that there will be no way your followers can all DM you if you're on that list. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: that's a good point and since I care more about having engaged followers than just a broadcast mechanism, that matters to me too. - Robert Scoble

When a 'cat who tweets' makes the list, while many worthwhile charitable/educational organizations are ignored, something doesn't smell right. And it isn't just @sockington's litter box. - Sharon McPherson

How many more requests did you get while 'recommended' versus say a normal day? - Andrew Leyden

ah got it. It was Jay not Dave. - Thomas Hawk

Probably not the same league as Twitter, but Tweetree.com shows you (Dave) and Scobleizer on their front page sometimes. - Hiro Asari

Jay's decision clearly struck a nerve: Look at all these comments! ... Re: Robert Scoble saying he'd refuse to be listed because (a) it would raise questions about quid pro quo (b) gift would compromise his journalism, and (c) unengaged followers -- I get a & b, and applaud him for it. But I'm not sure I grasp the downside of having 100,000 "unengaged" followers. How do you know how unengaged they really are? For years I was an avid reader of Jay Rosen's PressThink blog without ever leaving a comment. The real engagement with his ideas happened in my own backchannel -- that is, my life off-line. And that's not being tracked by Google Analytics -- not yet, anyway. :-) - Alan Mairson