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Dave Winer
Why do you think there have been so many versions of the tech press? The next ones to go are TC, Mashable, Gigaom, RWW, PaidContent etc.
do you mean you think they will go bust? - David Lloyd
If they aren't careful, and don't adhere to established journalism ethical standards, I suspect that's just what he means. - Gregg Morris
I've yet to see one do it. In the end the companies require complicity in order for the reporters to have access to rollouts, betas, etc. The ones that survive are the ones with access. What it takes are companies with the guts to not take shortcuts. If FB didn't give the reporters favorable treatment, they'd get killed in the press, but they also wouldn't be dependent on them. They don't want to take the chance, so they take the shortcut. - Dave Winer
seems like most of them (tech press) evolve from initially objective, to chummy, to the dispensers of what is hot or not, and finally, to telling every tech company they come across what their strategy should be - mike
But the wild card is that the users have better and better communication tools, so the route-arounds happen faster. TechCrunch is just four years old and was started with almost no investment capital. Compare that to the millions needed to start news.com. When TechCrunch is replaced it'll be with someone with a $0 investment as well. The only thing they won't have is access, which at the turning point will be seen as an advantage by users. (Not an insider, telling the truth, not being a lap dog.) - Dave Winer
Now if one of these guys tells FB to fuck off, or tells Twitter to take them off the SUL so they can blast the others for being on it -- all bets are off. We might just get out of the spiral. We're at a pretty important point in the cycle, imho. - Dave Winer
What about Leo Laporte's TWiT Network model? Will he eventually be the 'next to go'? - Chris Heath
Did FB reserve Leo's name? Is Leo on the SUL? I don't think Leo is inside. He probably *wants* to be, but he isn't. - Dave Winer
For all Leo's success he has never been *that* influential in the tech world. I was at an Nvidia show last year, and the diggnation podcast Kevin Rose etc were doing a live show and they had private parking for the whole team, wifi access etc, Leo was doing a live TWiT show and had no parking spot reserved, no internet access and no other perks at all. Leo is very much on the outside looking in. - David Lloyd
But Mark, that's how reporters are *supposed* to be. That's how we want them to be. Proxies for us, not PR people for the people who make the products. Done right, it's not supposed to be a job for rich superstars, it's supposed to be a relatively thankless thing people do because they're passionate about what they do. - Dave Winer
Part of that is because Leo does not talk to PR people. But Dave, Leo does have a facebook page already... http://facebook.com/LeoLaporte - Chris Heath
Scoble does that sort of thing. He champions companies, gets inside and is more evangelist than reporter. Why isn't he in your list? - Debi Jones
Debi, good question. I don't really know what he does. I'm going to wait until his site becomes public, which should be in just a few hours, before even beginning to form an opinion. - Dave Winer
I can tell you the site is built around video interviews and they are in the same style as his interview shows for all the companies he has worked for. When it comes to videos, Scoble has essentially done the same job for all the companies he worked for: he just services a different master each time. - David Lloyd
Of course, way before digg, Kevin Rose was first seen on the screen savers - which was created by leo laporte and patrick norton. I subscribed to comcast cable in 2000 specifically because they had the techtv channel. - mike
TechCruch was built with sweat equity, I don't see it being duplicated or made irrellevant anytime soon. - Christian Burns
Techcrunch will live on when Mike steps down - David Lloyd
building43 is basically a wordpress blog with typical scoble interviews with some big names and some hidden gems. I am afraid it isn't going to change the world. Scoble's paid gig is to shill rackspace to startups and other tech companies. - David Lloyd
If you want an idea of how it will all work @arrington did a QIK 20 minute video interview with scoble yesterday about the site and asked some excruciating questions which put Scoble on the spot. - David Lloyd
Mark, do you have a link to that interview? Sounds worth checking out. They both irritate me at different times in different ways, so it should be fascinating. *grin* - Ken Kennedy
Slight Correction mike, The ScreenSavers was originally hosted by Leo and Kate Botello http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Chris Heath
Chris, that is so right and she was hot, nerd gurl nirvana. thx for reminding me :) - mike
20 minute interview with Arrington and Scoble: http://qik.com/video/1850783 - David Lloyd
I think you overestimate how much "insider info" we get, Dave. From Facebook, Twitter, etc? Almost never do we get warning. We're watching every news source and corporate blog like hawks. :) - Ben Parr
For me I get my tech news from friendfeed so there is a shift under way. As for what I am I am trying to help this industry reach out to regular businesses and explain all of these new technologies. - Robert Scoble
Ben, I don't know how cozy you are or aren't with the tech companies. But I know that you're pretty snug with Twitter. That much is visible. :-) - Dave Winer
Journalists stay in business by cultivating relationships with sources - that's a pretty universal fact, not just with the tech press. It's always a dance to avoid getting too close and cushy for the sake of something less than pure motivations. In today's environment, though, the multiplicity of online channels in any market segment in conjunction with purely social media buffers us against this kind of corruption. As soon as someone spoons too lovingly for something they get outed. - John Blossom
John, that's why blogging took off -- because the tech press was so rotten with the vendors, they'd never say anything negative about them. So when you wanted to find out if a product really worked, you'd do what we do now -- listen to other users. Amazon built an empire on that idea. Of all the Web 2.0 companies they may be the only ones who get that the press doesn't control what users know anymore, that the users are getting it for themselves. - Dave Winer
I'm not so sure about any of these going boom anytime soon. There are still too many people reading them even though they seem to be to cozy with some of their sources (at least that's what it looks like to me from the outside without any real proof that this is even remotely true). And Leo's network isn't really comparable to any of these, in my opinion, simply because he seems to be looking at all this more from the outside and doesn't focus on one product or even group of products. - Horst Gutmann
Mark: interesting, but it's pretty clear that you didn't watch any of the videos I put up on http://www.building43.com -- not one of them has shilling for Rackspace. As for if I'm doing the same thing I did at, say, Microsoft, Podtech, or Fast Company, well, I don't remember clicking like 19,000 times for Microsoft or Podtech. I am the only tech blogger who links more often to other tech bloggers than to myself. - Robert Scoble
In Tech, like everything else, in the press makes you, the press can break you. Better to be succesful by engaging directly with customers. - Robert Hafer
If you haven't noticed I don't do much "tech news" anymore. I didn't go to Apple's event. I didn't go to Google's event. Why? I knew I'd read about them in live time on Twitter and friendfeed. I choose to go to places other people can't get into. I have the first interview with Mark Zuckerberg inside Facebook's new offices. Did I learn much from that? No. The other interview with Caitlin from Facebook Pages actually teaches people more. But the Zuckerberg interview gets more hits. - Robert Scoble
As to the question, the tech press turns over when the technology they are covering changes and they don't recognize it. There are some who made their careers covering Microsoft. They were very popular in the 1990s. Now? Most of them you couldn't name. Another thing that causes them to turn over? Changes in audience behavior. We all used to get PCWeek or Infoworld on our desks every day/week. That was our Techmeme of the day. Then we switched to using Techmeme. Today the audiences are shifting again from blogs to Twitter/friendfeed/Facebook. - Robert Scoble
How sizeable is this shift? Almost everyone I invited to the party last night is on friendfeed. Everyone was on Facebook. If they didn't have their email address on Facebook, Google, or friendfeed, they didn't get invited. There weren't many entrepreneurs, press, bloggers, innovators, Silicon Valley insiders who I couldn't find an email for online and about 85% are already on friendfeed, a service Arrington says "no one" uses. - Robert Scoble
Scoble please start another thread. Thanks... - Dave Winer
I wouldn't put PaidContent, RWW and Gigaom in the same breath as Mashable. That seems patently unfair. - B.J. Mendelson
When Scoble shows up that's the end of discourse. It's as if we have to fit everything inbetween his plane trips or when he's busy at a party or something that keeps him away from the computer. I'm not joking, he sucks all the oxygen out of a discussion. - Dave Winer
Anyway, I just wrote a blog post about this thread. I'd encourage others to do the same. I find these long FF threads repetitive and Scoble-obsessed. This is an important idea. http://www.scripting.com/stories... - Dave Winer
it sounds like there are a couple of things being discussed here and i'm not 100% sure they are connected. 1) media bias, and 2) changing of the guard in tech media. Chomsky's "propaganda model" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...) attempts to explain media bias in mainstream media. it's possible this model also applies (to some degree) to the tech press. bias itself doesn't mean people will reject you: look at Fox News. - Karim
to the extent the tech press has a changing of the guard, or is constantly being reinvented, it seems just as likely to me it's because *technology* changes. BYTE magazine probably died because they were still doing articles on hardware hacking and algorithms when people had moved on to higher abstractions and were buying PCs & software off the shelf. it's not that BYTE had some kind of bias, it's just that it stuck to what it knew, failed to evolve, and became irrelevant. - Karim
*if* TC dies it may be because they continue a focus on startups in an age when startups are less relevant -- not necessarily because they are in bed with anybody... - Karim
I don't think they've been focusing *enough* on startups. Too much industry intrigue and venture capital insider stuff. More like a newsletter than an end-user thing. When they were great was when they captured the enthusiasm of the creative people. Now they're jaded and too into themselves. That misses the point, journalism works when it's a mirror, the simpler the better. - Dave Winer
As an interesting aside, on the most recent Cranky Geeks podcast they were talking about the trend of journalists (especially tech journalists) becoming individual brands and celebrities in a sense and how that is a bad thing. To your point Dave, it wasn't until TechCrunch that I began to start to look first for the author on any post whereas before, I was merely aware of the overarching brand (website) I was visiting. - Mike Bracco
To me, the author is a very important part of any piece of writing. Sometimes the byline tells me to pay more attention and sometime it tells me to take what I read with a grain of salt or pass altogether. I'm of the belief that past performance is a good way to measure people in professions like journalism. For instance, I'll be strongly biased against anything Judith Miller writes in the future because of her part in the Plame leak. - Chris Heath
The importance of the author doesn't mean celebrity to me either, just to be clear. And Mike, I did just watch that ep of Cranky Geeks. Dan Goodin was exactly correct in saying that journos should be approaching each story from the outside if they wish to serve their readers and not the people and companies that they are writing about because that is how the reader approaches these products/services/etc. - Chris Heath