David J. Hinson › Likes

Louis Gray
One commenter on my blog: "They meant 'real' journalists and media people. Not guys who stay at home in their pajamas in front of a computer."
So there ya go. - Louis Gray
I can validate the authenticity of this photo. - drew olanoff
Oh, so how am I supposed to take you seriously now?! - Akiva
OMG lol hahaha :D - Apostolos Papadopoulos
Hey you have a shirt I should have! :) (Maybe not the exact one...should that be a requirement of all my interviews? You have to provide me a logo shirt?) Nice Jammies... ;) - Sheryl
LG shirts are here: http://www.cafepress.com/louisgr... (And yes, they have ladies designs, Sheryl) - Louis Gray
Oh snap. - Derrick
Jim Lehrer is quite famous for his pajama and hot chocolate series of interviews with world leaders. You are in good company :-) - Todd Hoff
BWHAHAHAHAHA I smell a new meme for bloggers. - Anika
Clever. Would you wear a gabbygeek shirt, though? I believe in reciprocity. ;) - Sheryl
Baby onesies. Hmmm. Tempting. - DGentry
Awesome. Bring it on! :) - Nathan Chase
I thought you were wearing a hat with antlers. - Yolanda
I saw antlers too ;) - Jim Connolly
Strawberry and blackberry drew? - Todd Hoff
Drew: I did. Well Ken did. I'm in it. Just now. http://i.friendfeed.com/ac34fac... Jammie party! - Sheryl
@Yolanda I thought it was a feather in his hat. Pimp baseball cap? - Tamara, #TeamMarina
How rude is that? dang! Ignore and move on... BTW, who doesn't love to blog at night in their jammies? :) - Susan Beebe
Wait - I thought Louis Gray doesn't put stickers on his laptop? - Jesse Stay
So cute Louis-you should see what I wear lol - Myrna
@tamara I thought it was a feather too. @susan We have to wait for night? @Jesse Stickers were pre-baby. - MaryAnn Chick Whiteside
<I>Real</I> journalists stay out of the office - MaryAnn Chick Whiteside
I see you have a pillow and a sheet ready to take a nap! Awwww, working from home....niiiiicccceee. :) - Dawn
.LOLz! - .LAG liked that
excellent. and I see antlers too. :) - Josh Haley
You need to wear a suit and a gray fedora with a card stuck in it that says "PRESS" in all caps. And you need a camera with a big, round flash that makes a big poof sound. Otherwise I'll never take you seriously. - Bruce Lewis
I'm always a little confused by this "pajamas" thing. I guess at newspapers, not every day is Wear Pajamas to Work Day? Here in the tech industry, it pretty much is. - j1m
At least he didn't say "naked" or "in drag", right? - Brett Kelly
Yes, commenting here only makes the thread continue. :) But the pillow and sheet were there because I slept on Drew's couch, and that's our make-do bed. The PJ pants and LG shirt are fairly tame, aren't they? My wife's comment on seeing this? "The subject is observed in his natural habitat." - Louis Gray
Louis can I sleep on your couch when I come out to San Francisco next? - Jesse Stay
It does look comfy :) - Brett Kelly
LMAO. Classic. Good stuff as always....LOL, as I write this, at my desk....in my PJs....LOL - Harold Cabezas
Excuse me but My Jammies are NSFW - Brent - Yes I am
Kol Tregaskes
"Ooops they did it again! No, not the Britney Spears fan club! Google did it again...stealing Microsoft's thunder by rolling out Wave, their new communications and collaborative during the same week Microsoft debuted Bing, its new . Google Wave is what email would be like if it were on steroids! It is a little of everything all mashed up into one big giant framework. Wave is part email, IM, calendar, Twitter, wiki, spreadsheets/docs/presentation, picture sharing, social media, forums, maps and just about everything else on the web, but the kitchen sink!" - Kol Tregaskes from Bookmarklet
A nice round-up. - Kol Tregaskes
Kol, i sent u video link that day of Wave demo. Saw it? - Roshan Ramachandran
The long video? Yep, thank you, eventually got to see it.. Really eager to try it now though. - Kol Tregaskes
This is a serious game changer for a lot of reasons. FriendFeed is very uniquely positioned to take advantage of this, as are the OMB servers (identi.ca etc). The implications for search are huge. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
maybe its time for microsoft to throw in the towel, Google are simply streets (or waves) ahead in everything they do - Neil Ashworth
I've said for some time that microsoft has fallen too far behind in the software market. They aren't the innovators anymore and need to embrace the path that they started on when they started buying into media companies. Google has the upper hand in software and they continually beat Microsoft at the marketing game. Microsoft should have realized long ago the power of giving away software in order to control the nature of the user's experience. Google has that control now. - guruvan (Rob Nelson) from f2p
Scoble's Vanity Feed
@Scobleizer i know you are a #friendfeed junkie. you need to try out Amigo. very robust iphone app for friendfeed http://tr.im/p2f9 - http://twitter.com/Rumford...
Palm Responds to Apple's iTunes Syncing Threats | John Paczkowski - http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/2009061...
Palm Responds to Apple's iTunes Syncing Threats | John Paczkowski
iPhone Developer
to those who are looking for cheap gas. Here's a free iPhone app. http://bit.ly/2ewau - http://twitter.com/winston...
iPhone app Cheap Gas! pinpoints gas stations near you sorted by distance and price.
iPhone Developer
@lauralovesart Yes,gas seems to be going up every week. I'm getting $2.99 around my work & home areas.I should use "cheap gas" iphone app=] - http://twitter.com/karladj...
Paul Buchheit
FriendFeed Blog: Popular iPhone apps for FriendFeed - http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009...
FriendFeed Blog: Popular iPhone apps for FriendFeed
FriendFeed Blog: Popular iPhone apps for FriendFeed
FriendFeed Blog: Popular iPhone apps for FriendFeed
"Some third party software developers have made good use of the FriendFeed API to create some great FriendFeed iPhone applications. Stay connected to FriendFeed even when you're away from your computer with one of these iPhone apps (at our office, BuddyFeed and Amigo have been really popular)" - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet
Both paid apps - think I'll wait until after iPhone 3.0 drops before I try them. - Mitch Wagner
BuddyFeed is solid, but sorely lacking a landscape browser option. And it's still a touch crashy. - Roger Benningfield
Gosh, I wish there were popular FriendFeed apps for the Sprint Instinct. -from the mobile wilderness. - Anika
I think the browser would be perfect if you could lock the horizontal scrolling somehow. - Frankie Warren
I wish there was a mention of the two alternative WebApp-proxy apps, which are fully usable on most smartphones, not solely the iPhone. One of them is f2p <http://dev.ctor.org/f2p/>, developed by Nakamura Hiroshi <http://friendfeed.com/nahi>; the other <http://fftogo.com/login/> by FFeeder Benjamin Golub. - ianf ⌘
I have been liking Nambu, still in beta and free http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... - Drew S
I broke down and bought BuddyFeed about a week ago. It has helped me use FriendFeed more but there are features it's lacking (specifically Twitter sharing integration). solid app overall though. - Michael Koby from BuddyFeed
Still looking for the perfect Tri-fecta app: Friendfeed / FaceBook / Twitter "hub". Nambu and Zensify are close on the iPhone, but both are 1/3 short. - eEditor from Nambu
I use Nambu on my iPhone and for Twitter on my Mac and like them both. The Mac version is currently without FriendFeed and Facebook, but both are promised 'soon', like end of June/July when it comes out of beta. - Ken Gidley
BuddyFeed and amigo aren't bad, but they both need serious work on their respective UIs (particularly as it relates to liking and commenting, both of which require about 2 too many taps). I'm excited to see what happens with these in the future. And now I'm actually thinking about building one myself. We'll see. - Brett Kelly
I made some FriendFeed tables for YQL that make it really, really easy to use: http://bit.ly/TzF2n - Sam Pullara
How about Android? C'mon developers! Android will be on more devices in the future, including netbooks! - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
These apps all seem to lack some obvious basics, like being able to email a FF item. I own BuddyFeed (and a couple others) and generally like it, but I still bounce to the web app sometimes. - David Chartier
Use Nambu (FREE), or Safari :) - Alp
Great thread - thanks for the pointers everyone. - Mitch Wagner
Is there anything interesting out there for BlackBerry? - Pablo Melchor
Using Nambu myself-primarily to post to FF and Ping.fm--really great picture integration which the FF/iphone page lacks. It can still hang up a bit--but no complaints since it's free. - Kelly W.
Thanks, Susan: I tried fftogo.com and it does the trick, buy it is a pity that it has not added the improvements in friendfeed's appearance (e.g. fftogo still displays service icons -twitter, facebook- beside each entry instead of people's pictures) - Pablo Melchor
All of them offer less functionality than the website, which is perfect. Therefore, all of them suck. - zio bodhisattva
The website is far from perfect. Posting picture is less than ideal. - Kelly W.
BuddyFeed is my favorite one out of that batch. However, it crashes way too much - Susan Beebe
With respect, the API has several big missing pieces, for example DM, IM, and Email. That's why those features aren't in these apps. - David J. Hinson
If you cannot decide which client to use, ask Hunch: http://www.hunch.com/friendf... - Lars Trieloff
I second the call for an Android app. - Alex
Brett Kelly
Amigo Version 1.1 submitted to iTunes for review. (via http://friendfeed.com/welovea...)
This is good news! Some cool (and, arguably, necessary) new features in here. - Brett Kelly
Youji Sakai
Popular iPhone apps for FriendFeed : http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009... - Youji Sakai
Interview : Jeremy Baines and AlertThingy http://onair.adobe.com/blogs... - Youji Sakai
Rodney Rumford
TweetPhoto Now Supported In The Twittelator Pro #iPhone App. Looks Great! http://www.pitchengine.com/tweetph...
Evan Williams
@justyn who do you suggest? We need to revamp Suggested Users, but it needs to solve a problem (i.e., giving new users a place to start).
For one thing, you could expand the list and randomize who you show by category. For instance, the New York Times is suggested. Why not alternative a newspaper account among a variety of top providers -- Wall St. Journal, LA Times and so on? Is there more than one mommy blogger to be represented other than Heather Armstrong? Just how many celebrities do you need to suggest? Do People... more... - dannysullivan
How about some people in several different categories, like wefollow does. - Francine Hardaway
I think that David Owen is right. Why re-invent the wheel? - Anita Cohen-Williams
Suggested users could be a highly useful feature if you built logic into design to help users discover other users based on categories, keywords, profile bio data, location, etc - Susan Beebe from BuddyFeed
Not that you're reading this but how about enabling users to enter their Facebook credentials or Gmail contact list, or others and just find people on Twitter that they're already contacts with elsewhere? That will be the strongest suggested user list you can come up with. Then, look up the #followfriday and retweets of posts by those users. This can be done intelligently, and dynamically for each user. - Jesse Stay
I hope the list doesn't change at all *cough*. Actually, in all seriousness I like the list as is from the vantage point that "It's a start" for new users. For older users, I'd love to see something more contextual based on their tweets over time with the service. *Edit- Susan, I didn't see your post before mine but I totally agree.* - B.J. Mendelson
How about using hunch? Seriously, ask people a few questions, and use that to collaboratively filter. It improves over time as you see who people who answered those questions a year ago are still following and replying to today. - Daniel Dulitz
Most Canadians don't know Twitter exists - http://www.digitalhome.ca/content...
A new study released this week from Ipsos Reid has found that three out of four (74 per cent) of online Canadians are unwaware of Twitter. Of the 26% of online Canadians who were aware of Twitter, only 6 per cent reported using the social networking tool. Add it up and it means that only 1.45% of the Internet population, or about one percent of the population as a whole actually use Twitter. - Shey from Bookmarklet
Not surprisingly, awareness of Twitter is higher among 18-34 year olds (32% aware). Awareness is also significantly higher among those online Canadians with University educations (34%, compared to only 19% of those with a high school education or less). Interestingly, awareness is significantly lower in Quebec (only 7%). - Shey
huh, what? - .LAG liked that
Yeah that number seems ridiculously high to me - Shey
Doesn't surprise me at all. As people involved in tech I think our circle of friends/acquaintances is not indicative of the "average" Canadian. - Kenton
Very true. But even my RL non-techie friends know about Twitter, even if they don't use it and think it's stupid. - Shey
But Shey, I would guess you are also University educated and live in a large metropolitan area. I think if you went out into more rural areas you'd find plenty of people who hardly even use a computer. - Kenton
That is also very true - Shey
1% translates to 330,000 - does that pass the smell test? - Brian Sullivan
That's interesting given that Toronto was one of the major early Facebook adopters. - Jed
The historic Facebook uptake would lead you to think it odd. But, to put another layer of perspective on it, Orkut is a google product and BIG in Brazil, for instance, but how many Canadians would even know what you just pronounced. Exactly. - Micah
That is true, but that happened in Brazil. I assume Brazilians would know about it. - Jed
OTOH, there's been lots of national newspaper coverage and local radio station personalities seem to be all over it, so maybe there's a middle ground to the stats as reported and the geek surprise. - Micah
Twitter is going to be remembered in the same way ICQ is as a step in evolution for communication software. Keep a watch of this Google Wave tech. coming, it'll probably be the next cool Internet term to throw around. " Yeah was "Waving" my friends the other day...." - Jim Geary
So sorry about your father.My prayers and thoughts are with you. - Lynda Thornhill
^^^ Who's Twitter's father? - Micah
? operator error - Jim Geary
Anthony Citrano
Flickr Founder Calls Nuked User 'A Dick' | Gawker - http://gawker.com/5288759...
Flickr Founder Calls Nuked User 'A Dick' | Gawker
Look, I think flickR should be able to control their network and its content however they wish. But this policy is ridiculous and evil (wiping out all user data and not letting them get it back) and they deserve all the negative press that comes with it, especially when they act like dismissive assholes. - Anthony Citrano from Bookmarklet
Is he the guy that wrote that hilarious exit letter re: silver mining? - anna sauce
Same dude anna. - vijay
god, I love Stuart (finally read post) nice way to stand behind your colleague. - anna sauce
exactly. : ) Title is misleading. - vijay
I'm not a fan of Flickr but it's hard for me to summon any outrage on behalf of that dick. - Chester
Check this out.. last line from Johnson- "Ask Heather to fill you in". lol! Credit to Stewart for showing the level of restraint he did. - vijay
flickr is a great service but their terms of use and the ways they enforce them makes them much bigger dicks than any justifiably irate user. And I am not trying to compliment them. But it's typical corporate internet arrogance. - Rick Powell
What a great chance to respond to a CR issue without having to represent the company admirably... given a chance to say what he actually felt, I think Stewart's response was maybe not totally called for, but totally funny and he has the right. Way to back up your former peeps too. - SAM
Well, whatever. I think Stewart is a dick, but far fewer people will read that than have read and will read his e-mail and will make their own minds up. - Rick Powell
So, if somebody emailed me to ask me to mediate a problem they were having with my former employer, I suspect that my response would both be ruder and shorter. - Wirehead
@Wirehead Well, in that case, you, just like Stewart, would be going out of your way to be a dick yourself. All he really needed to write was the first sentence, or not respond at all. But flickr's policy of deleting a user's photos without warning and without appeal, pretty much sums up corporate assholism for me. - Rick Powell
My capital rules of staying on the internet: 1. be nice. 2. if you can't be nice, be civil. 3. if you can't be civil, be offline. They served me well in the last 15 years. (and - honestly - I trust Heather's judgement in managing communities a wee bit more than a random guy trolling comment threads, being nuked from existence and throwing a tantrum about it) - dario
There is usually little difference between a nice person enforcing bad corporate policy and a bad person doing it, except for the style in which it's done. Apologies to "Heather," I'm sure, since I don't know her personally. [insert eye rolls here.] - Rick Powell
this is why i stopped using flikr. They dont CARE. - Jim Hague
As somebody who manages online communities for a living, I'm going to have to say that the response here was probably the right one (granted I haven't seen the original threads, and he could have afforded to be a little more civil with his language). Trolls live for this shit. And most of them are dicks. - mike fabio
Troll is a dismissive word, used ubiquitously and uncritically. It's been MY experience that while there are genuine trolls, the word is not infrequently used to dismiss someone who brings up an uncomfortable political issue. No excuse for being a dick, of course. - Rick Powell
What concerns me in this issue is that if someone at Yahoo decides that they disagree with something I said or the way I said it, they are willing to completely remove my account. It makes me distrustful of the cloud as a place to store my data. With that said, Yahoo was perfectly within their rights to make this move. It just seems like they don't care to engender confidence in the integrity of the data on their servers. - Scott Ohlemacher
I have wondered if flickr so easily deletes paying customers photos because they have never provided an easy way for anyone to download all of their collection once it's in the cloud. I guess they think, why would anyone want to do that? - Rick Powell
@Rick Powell: You're right that there is no excuse for being a dick, but dickery is subjective. - Scott Ohlemacher
And I think deleting a paying customer's photos, even if he violated terms of service, and not the law, for instance, is simply bad corporate policy. That is really being a dick, in my opinion. - Rick Powell
Amen, Rick, Amen. Perhaps the real issue was that flickr was afraid of losing the White House photostream? - Scott Ohlemacher
Wow, just wow. Just goes to show you that money (or talent for that matter) and class don't always go hand in hand. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Finally Flickr's actions as Judge, Jury and Executioner in deleting unwanted members is getting some mainstream coverage due to the political angle. Even if some disagree whether it was the correct forum to air his grievances on the WH's detainee photo policy, it appears to have been measured and civil. Certainly not grounds for a non-appealable deletion. So exactly how does Flickr safeguard our photos (i.e. backups), if deleted members cannot be retrieved? Cloud-computing, or merely dust? - Nils Sandin
Yeah- seems like a draconian move by Yahoo. - anna sauce
another Community Manager from a different site chiming in... Flickr was totally within their rights to toast this guy *and* his account. The TOS on any site is not just an agreement between a single user and the company with regard to their own content, but also between the community at large and the company that OTHER users will be subjected to the TOS. This guy was spamming and... more... - Edubya
Spam? What exactly was he selling? If I read the accounts right, every American needs to have those pictures shoved under their noses until they wake the frak up. Really, the vagueness in rhetoric that everyone just accepts here is amazing. They were pictures of torture. It was a political protest. Yahoo was certainly within their "rights," although the idea of assigning rights to a corporation makes me queasy, but that doesn't mean I think the world is better off because Yahoo gets to do what it wants. - Rick Powell
@Edubya They have a right and obligation to uphold their TOS. However, asymmetrical responses like this are not a good way to keep up a good image. - Scott Ohlemacher
Yeah, this definitely falls under the definition of protected speech in my opinion. Yahoo isn't looking good over this. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
"protected speech"? I don't think the constitution said you were guaranteed the right be able to post on flickr. The constitution doesn't mean everyone has to put up with your shit. A political protest in flickr comments is a pretty lazy freedom fighter anyway. That said, wiping out a paying customers stored images without a warning is really messed up, and it seems like they do that quite frequently. - Richard Lawler
It may not be constitutionally protected speech in this context, but in another it would be. That should at least make Yahoo pause and handle the situation carefully and diplomatically just to avoid the backlash. - Scott Ohlemacher
The constitution says that political speech is protected. It doesn't specify forum. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I think that Anthony's first comment here sums up the situation admirably. Flickr did something legal that was morally ambiguous. - Scott Ohlemacher
Just because speech is protect by the constitution doesn't mean that a private service has to allow unfettered expression of it. - Kevin (aka ThreadKilla)
No, it's not protected speech but it just points out why we can't trust corporations with our data, with anything. They don't give a shit and they don't have to. - Rick Powell
Ah, I love it when people speak up to defend the rights of corporations! Give them exemptions to all moral obligations! So encouraging for our democracy. Whether or not they have the legal right is irrelevant if we are talking about ethics. This is, however, the kind of culture we have. - Rick Powell
A rule against spamming comments != a law prohibiting free speech. How is a corporation morally obligated to put up with spammers, no matter what the content is they're spamming? - Richard Lawler
This may not hold up to scrutiny, but as a publicly traded company reliant on their image to maintain a user base and therefore profits, don't they have an obligation to shareholders to handle situations like this in the most diplomatic way possible? - Scott Ohlemacher
Corporations are not morally obligated to do anything. That's the point. That is why they cannot be trusted. Further, I didn't make that equivalency between spam and free speech. You did. Not to mention which the word "spam" is debatable in this case, not least because corporate policies disdain politics, by default, a position which, of course, always favors the powerful. - Rick Powell
debating whether this is a free speech issue or not is moot. Flickr (or pretty much anywhere else different from your own site) is private property, they have community guidelines which are designed for "the greater good" (which translates nicely to: having the largest number of satisfied users/customers possible). Flickr community guidelines basically boil down to "Behave. If you don't, it may very well be one strike, you're out". - dario
Rick, not to defend Flickr because I think they've handled this poorly (from a PR point of view if nothing else). But if you sign up to use a service and agree to the TOS, you are voluntarily agreeing to a certain code of conduct. If you violate the TOS, you are subject to the penalties of doing so. Johnson is free to take his protest to another venue. That said, Flickr could be a bit more accommodating and give the guy his images back. - Kevin (aka ThreadKilla)
and yes, losing your stuff sucks bad, and yes, they probably should implement some sort of "pre-ban" which lets you download your content back on - say - a two weeks notice before the termination of your account. - dario
Is it an appropriate solution for us to "vote with our eyeballs" and boycott the service until they change some of these policies in a public way? - Scott Ohlemacher
Peeps, the First Amendment protects you against government action. You have no constitutional right to a flickR account. There's a difference between saying "flickR sucks for doing this" and "flickR has no right to do this." They certainly do have a right to do it, and I have a right to think they're assholes because of it. But I guess that's what I said initially (sorry.) - Anthony Citrano
@Kevin Have you read the TOS lately? Do you know what NIPSA means? I certainly don't know, after reading it a dozen times. Their TOS is not as arcane, opaque and just plain retarded as ebay's, which must set some sort of record in the history of incomprehensible corporate jargon, but it's not exactly transparent. I think they can ban me if they want. But after accepting my money and... more... - Rick Powell
also, on the "morally reprehensible" issue: this has nothing to do with ethics. Turning over your users' personal data to the chinese government IS unethical, and still, as a publicly shared company, you have to answer to your shareholders first, which might -or might not- be interested in your moral high ground - dario
@dario What you described is why, in my youth, I believed in economic democracy, which, I think, only the Zapatistas actually advocate now. - Rick Powell
I think you people are confusing how the flickr software is presently implemented with an arbitrary policy decision. This is common with people who don't know what they are talking about but like to sound like they do. I twittered this on Tuesday... unless you've actually hacked big software that runs on large server farms, STFU about how you'd change how a large website that runs on large server farms would work. - Wirehead
Oh, I love that one! Technological barriers, the last refuge of the nihilist. Give me a frakin break. This thread has seen it all, right? First-name dropping, specious arguments about the rights of corporations, equating speech with spam, and now claiming the high ground for those who "have hacked big software." I believe I'll have another beer and thank the gods I have never been anywhere near large server farms. Big cow farms, yes. - Rick Powell
Anthony...I agree. Chalk it up to another Festivus miracle, my friend! lol - Carlton Hackett
@Wirehead That was needlessly vitriolic. Couldn't be civil and say something like "There are technological limitations related to policy implementation in communities of this size" rather than making assumptions about the skills and experiences of the people in the discussion and then disparaging them? You didn't contribute to this conversation at all, you detracted from it. @everyone else: sorry for feeding the troll. - Scott Ohlemacher
Dude, I'm just stating an unpleasant truth. But it's very popular amongst people with a little grain of knowledge to assume that they can apply this everywhere. Do I sit here and make suggestions for how cattle ranchers might improve production? No, because I recognize that I don't know a damn thing about cattle ranching and would probably suggest something really stupid. - Wirehead
On that note, I'm going to go have a beer and watch the hockey game. - Scott Ohlemacher
@Pat I would guess that a large percentage of the world's dissidents would say that the normal rules don't apply to them, and they would be right, else they would not be dissidents. As for your comment, your rhetoric is precious (alas? a bit sad?) and your argument, if I can call it that, empty. Anyone else? - Rick Powell
Alex: The constitution defines how government must act. The speech is protected from the government squelching it. No private company is obligated to allow anyone to speak in any way other than the way it wants. Period. The constitution does not give you the right to make the New York Times print anything and everything you want, nor does it give you the right to make flickr do it either. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Most law, and most particularly, the Constitution points back to principles that Dick Cheney, among others, refers to as "quaint," but that doesn't mean they're not valued or have no value, or don't constitute, get that word, the basis for understanding moral behavior. Most citizens understand this. Corporations, unique in history we will eventually realize, are somehow allowed to opt... more... - Rick Powell
Big, scary, god-like (it's a technology, Captain, but none like we've ever seen) server farm or not, I expect backups have to be available. Maybe only for a week (I think that's how long I was told Sprint's picture mail server kept backups), but for some period of time. - MiniMage
See, you are just proving my point, BoringMage. There is a difference between backups and restoring deleted accounts. Given the expected failure rate of disk drives, if flickr didn't keep backups, you'd know. :) - Wirehead
Flickr could disable the account and prevent harmful activity without deletion of customer data, and that is what they should be doing in these cases. This is more about consumer rights than freedom of speech. - Mike Chelen
I'm afraid it cannot be "protected speech" if you spam the same comment 10, 20 more times on individual pictures. Then it becomes heckling. These are the flickr terms: "Don’t vent your frustrations, rant, or bore the brains out of other members. Flickr is not a venue for you to harass, abuse, impersonate, or intimidate others. If we receive a valid complaint about your conduct, we’ll... more... - Iphigenie
If they did warn him and he kept spamming, then he deserved what happened. If he didn't back up his own data after being warned and continued doing the same thing, who can he blame? - Richard Lawler
Jeez, I keep commenting, since so many people find so many creative or not-so-creative ways of avoiding the real points. There is no easy way to back up one's flickr collection, which in some cases involves clicking twice for each photo - which can run into thousands of clicks. If you knew what you were talking about, then you would already know this. flickr's API does not allow... more... - Rick Powell
Yes, we've heard your opinion Rick. That's great. It still doesn't justify the guy's behavior. It doesn't entirely pardon flickr, and I don't think anyone is, but he made his choice. - Richard Lawler
Well, Richard, if anyone had actually heard my opinion then they would comment as if they understood the contents of my opinion, which you clearly haven't. I have not made justifications about his behavior, mostly because I really don't fully know the extent and content of his behavior. Do you? Perhaps you can fill us all in? It seems clear he was obnoxious, as many people are who want... more... - Rick Powell
Rick, I am not sure about your point - in order to upload to Flickr you need to have the image in the first place, so the assumption is you still have the originals and could re-upload to a new account (I certainly have my images on 2 drives here plus several places online). If you somehow lose the originals you should take copies back out of Flickr immediately, not rely on Flickr (or anything) as your sole copy. PS: have you tried http://www.ghacks.net/2009... - Iphigenie
Congratulations, Joelle, your life is a lot more stable than mine was. I started uploading to flickr when I was homeless and had no computer of my own. Borrowed cameras, with personal images, and gift memberships from readers of my blog. This year will be the first time I have to decide whether to flip the bird to flickr or pay up. 4 years of connections, not to mention photos. Not an... more... - Rick Powell
Just for the purpose of backup perhaps you can switch the images from private to public (but w. adult warning to avoid people being offended) - run the backup, then change it back? Just circumvent the system temporarily so you have your images at least! I totally agree with you that the feeling that the plug can be pulled under you is an uneasy one, but the cases where flickr has done... more... - Iphigenie
You have totally disarmed me. ;-) I will think about trying that, and any indie, open, distributed options you have would be welcome. - Rick Powell
I have a lot of thoughts on this as some might expect. May have to break them down into a few posts. I saw this letter from Stewart well before it appeared in Valleywag. It first appeared in the DeleteMe Uncensored group that I admin on Flickr. My first problem with the letter is that I don't think Shepherd should have posted it there or anywhere at all. It was private correspondence... more... - Thomas Hawk
Had Shepherd asked Stewart for permission to post it and Stewart said yes I think that'd probably be ok then. But I don't think Shepherd did that and I don't think Stewart gave permission for it to be published. While I support Shepard's fight against Flickr, I did tell him that I didn't think it was right that he published this email. I know that I personally won't publish emails... more... - Thomas Hawk
Stewart and Heather are friends so I'd think it fair to assume that he'd stick up for Heather in this case without admittedly knowing many of the specific details. I think a lot of us might as our first reaction stick up for our friends. Unfortunately, I think Stewart's response turns this debate more into a personality thing than it should be. I think there are three problems with the way that Flickr handled the Shepherd Johnson case. - Thomas Hawk
1. Obama campaigned on a platform of transparency in Govt. Deleting critical comments is not transparency. Obama is using social media to enhance his transparency. Deleting critical comments doesn't add much to his credibility in that department. This is not an Obama campaign photostream. It's the official Whitehouse photostream produced by your and my tax dollars. The Obama... more... - Thomas Hawk
2. Shepherd Johnson should not have had his account deleted over the comments that he posted. He linked to a photo (not his but from another photostream as allowed by flickr that was also nuked) depicting detainee prison abuse with a message protesting Obama's support of a new law to suppress additional photos from being released. Of all speech political speech should be given the... more... - Thomas Hawk
3. Flickr should not be deleting *any* accounts permanently and irrevocably. To be so arrogant that they would assume that they will never make a mistake in an account deletion is mind numbing. The fact that they refuse to address this issue and simply dismiss anyone who suggests otherwise is an equally horrible position of arrogance. Instead Flickr should change their policy with... more... - Thomas Hawk
+++ @TH - Nils Sandin
Scott, this is not just about a Flickr account deletion. According to Shepherd, Heather was not aware of some of the comments that were deleted on the President's stream. The only way those comments could have been deleted (if not by flickr) would have been by Shepherd himself or someone who controls the President's stream. I've personally written to the White House on it and posted a... more... - Thomas Hawk
And there is no political bias on my part in this one. I voted for Obama and support him as my President even if I might not vote for him again. I'm a Democrat who believes strongly that censorship is wrong, even if it's done by a popular Democratic President. - Thomas Hawk
Political speech does not and should not deserve a wider berth if the guy was breaking the rules. That should be entirely content agnostic. - Richard Lawler
When are you going to realize that Obama and Bush policy wise are one and the same? - John Blanton from twhirl
Richard, the problem with that position is that the "rules" at flickr are very, very subjective. According to Shepherd, Heather told him his account was deleted because he posted a link to a detainee abuse photo and because he was "spamming" flickr, and yet Heather refused to define what "spamming" was and there is definitely no specific rule about not linking to detainee abuse photos.... more... - Thomas Hawk
so in Flickr's subjective implementation of their rules? Yes, I do think that political speech should be given a wider berth. Not directly relevant, but U.S. Courts have consistently given political speech a wider berth when dealing with First Amendment issues. - Thomas Hawk
If you think flickrs rules are bad then thats great, but its not censorship for them to have and enforce rules on their own website.This is not a first amendment issue and flickr shouldn't treat it as one, that amendment does not give you the rights being implied here. If your Dad sent a complaint to flickr about you posting his photo and you continued to repost it, then sure your stream should be deleted. - Richard Lawler
Richard it is actually censorship if Flickr deletes an account. It might not be Govt. censorship (which also may or may not have taken place in this case). Censorship doesn't have to be Govt sponsored to be considered censorship. It may be *justifiable* censorship to you but it is still censorship. - Thomas Hawk
No, it's censorship if they remove it because of the content, which is exactly why whether it is political speech or not should never come into play. - Richard Lawler
Richard, Flickr did remove Shepherds account because of content. That's exactly why his account was deleted. Content of an image (detainee torture abuse) and content of his words (protesting the Obama administration) that they called spam but would not define. - Thomas Hawk
You've decided it was the content based on their lack of a hard definition for spam, but that doesn't make it so. What he was doing doesn't serve for justification for how he went about doing it. - Richard Lawler
Not sure anyone in this long thread has corrected the assumption that this is "censorship." Censorship is inherently a government act. If it's not an act of government, by definition, it isn't censorship. - Jon Lebkowsky
At least, if you folow the strict, original defnition of the term. There's a huge issue here, but I don't see it as an issue of censorship. - Jon Lebkowsky
Censorship by any definition is anyone preventing anyone else from fully using our right to free speech. .this is censorship of the worst kind. - John Blanton from twhirl
Jon: Censorship is not limited to government accts. Your confusing "censorship" with "government censorship," a common mistake that people make. Since you mention the definition of the term, check out the definition in the dictionary. Richard, according to Shepherd, his account was deleted in part for the photo and in part for what they call spamming (without any notice or warning I... more... - Thomas Hawk
Again, you have a right to free speech in /public/ - Flickr is a /private/ place. Just as you can dictate the speech that goes on in your own home, so can Flickr in their message boards. It may be censorship, but it is not infringing on your right to free speech We are all free to bitch about Flickr in public. So's the guy they dumped. Flickr is free to censor any damn thing they like... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
It is censorship, but it's perfectly legal and "fine" for them to do, however offensive and inadvisable it may be - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Rob, I've never said his speech on Flickr is protected. I've never said that what Flickr did her was illegal. Flickr can censor me for wearing a green shirt if they want to. Nobody's disputing that. I'm saying it's bad policy and as one of the most active community members who has put thousands of hours into the site and thousands of pieces of content into the site, I think their... more... - Thomas Hawk
I do wish actually though that the White House would in fact address the question of whether or not they censor comments on their own Flickrstream. I think it's a fair question in light of Obama's oft promised new "transparency" in Govt. - Thomas Hawk
Thomas: no you never said any of those things. And i have to agree that it's bad policy. I think in general censorship sucks no matter who does it. And definitely I think you're correct that the Obama Administration should address that question. It's a fair question regardless of promised "transparency" - it's a fair question because it is OUR government. (of, for, and BY the people, right?)But, we've sen on several occasions already that the Obama White House cannot & will not live up to it's promises. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Thanks Pat :) Well said. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Pat, calling it *government* censorship (which in fact may or may not have taken place here) implies that it's a First Amendment freedom-of-speech issue. Calling it censorship is simply stating what it is. If FriendFeed decided to delete a user's account for posting images of prison detainee abuse that would also be censorship. Fortunately for all of us, Friendfeed doesn't seem to be... more... - Thomas Hawk
It does suck, but we do have to remember that this type of censorship is also an exercise of freedom as well. No matter how much it sucks, it is Flickr's right to do it. (no matter how bad it is for their users, or their own company it's still their right -we are all free to engage in our own stupidity) "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
"I will defend your right to say it" indeed - but I won't defend your right to yell it, say it over and over right in someone's face, or heckle in a public space. And I wont defend your right to say it by force to people who dont want to hear it. None of these are free speech - As soon as your speech infringes on the free speech or freedom of others, it's no longer free speech. If... more... - Iphigenie
Sorry, Joelle, I can only say you've never encountered an issue where your passion and your politics overrode your sense of propriety, (I have) because that is what you are talking about now. Unless you have suddenly become a public figure at the level of the President of the United States. Free speech as a right protects us against the government, not against corporate assholes, which... more... - Rick Powell
Nir Ben Yona
Your Facebook vanity URL might turn to be your Facebook vanity mail
I'm more than suspecting this is Facebook's next target. - Nir Ben Yona
What's 'vanity' mail? - Myrna
Your next Facebook mailbox. - Nir Ben Yona
and what is that? LOL not kidding - Myrna
Myrna, in that case you should read the link first http://blog.facebook.com/blog... :) - Nir Ben Yona
Thanks Nir will do :) - Myrna
Pleasure :) - Nir Ben Yona
Julian Seery Gude
Want to avoid Twitpic & similar tools? You can now post by email or Flickr directly to Twitter. 1/2
Friday Night Cheers, FriendFeed!
snapshot (3).jpg
Cheers mate - Mo Kargas
Chhhhheeeeers! :) - Sasha Kovaliov
XXXX?? Serious?! Johnny! - Bec Rowe @d0tski
It's what I had in the fridge... - Johnny
Just rub it in why don'tcha?? ;P - Yolanda
*sends real beer* - Bec Rowe @d0tski
*also sends chocolate. beer needs chocolate* - Bec Rowe @d0tski
Oh... you mean that VB crap... * ralphs* - Johnny
*hides cheap cask of de bortoli* - Bec Rowe @d0tski
Nah, not VB. How about some Coopers? - Bec Rowe @d0tski
I have choclate waffer fingers... does that count? - Johnny
Only if you eat enough of them. - Bec Rowe @d0tski
I'll give it a fair shake - Johnny
Don't forget to pull the old dustbuster out on your beard, later :) - Bec Rowe @d0tski
I have to shampoo it later. Forgot this morning - Johnny
You shampoo it?" That's awesome! Hey, have you thought about taking a straightener to it? I bet it'd reach your chest! - Bec Rowe @d0tski
Shampoo and conditioner everyday... Longest hair is 1 1/2 inches, just under the chin :D - Johnny
Oooooh, so it's all soft and sweet smelling? Too cool! - Bec Rowe @d0tski
It's part of the 'deal'... Keep it clean and it can stay - Johnny
Ah. Well that's fair. - Bec Rowe @d0tski
Cheers Johnny!! :D Having a good friday night? - Penny
It's reeeeeeeeally cold but I have my uggies on. As soon as Rach goes to bed I'm gonna fire up the Xbox and play till I fall asleep. You? - Johnny
It's no doubt even colder here (it's beyond freezing). I too have my uggies on, we're watching Grease, drinking wine and I'm cooking some Golden Syrup Dumplings :D - Penny
Yum... - Johnny
Post Haircut [Beard Untouched]
Awesome that the beard is untouched by human shears. - DGentry
Soon your beard is going to get searched before you´re allowed on a flight ;) - ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ
When you get older and your beard turns white, you would make a very nice Santa Claus. I mean that with the utmost love and respect. - Trish Haley
<3 - Johnny
Rodney Rumford
@duncanriley have u seen the new FF iphone app called Amigo ? amazing app. review here http://facereviews.com/
Wendy Kurtz
@davidjhinson see recent tweets from @michaelhyatt. I think you can help him.
Robert Scoble
We lost a great developer… - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Steve Rider, who developed most of the early live.com versions, passed away June 5. Way too young. Tragic. - Robert Scoble
Thank you Robert for reminding us all that this is about LIFE - not just work or marketing. Steve Rider will be missed - Ric Johnson
Condolences to Steve Rider's family and to Sanaz Ahari's families - Eran Even-Kesef
Losing some good people this year. Lifetimes dedicated to information access. Very sad. http://tinyurl.com/lkxkv6 - Carolyn Wood
Seriously as a developer I am feeling like to cry, my condolences to Steve Rider's Family. - Hameedullah Khan
I am very serious in my sympathy. Emotion is often difficult to convey in typed characters. - Carolyn Wood
Sad :-( - Susan Beebe
Rob Williams
Digest Post: Hey Amigo Check Out this Amazing Friend Feed iPhone App: Amigo for FriendFeed Rating: 4.. http://tinyurl.com/m99hbu - http://twitter.com/johnwal...
Kevin Shannon
RT @svartling: A new great looking FriendFeed client for the iPhone called Amigo is now available in App Store #iPhone #svpt
RT @svartling: A new great looking FriendFeed client for the iPhone called Amigo is now available in App Store #iPhone #svpt - http://twitter.com/kevinps...
Tim Moore
Thanks Matt! Had been using Nambu - RT @MKMartin: @TimMoore Friendfeed client for the iPhone just hit the app store, called Amigo.
Rodney Rumford
NEWS: NEW Friend Feed client called Amigo just listed in itunes today. this app is insane U must have. i tested it http://ax.itunes.apple.com/WebObje...
Why are they asking you to test it when you rarely use FriendFeed? ;-) (That's a hint to come use FriendFeed more Rodney!) - Jesse Stay
I've purchased it but haven't had a chance to mess with it yet. I can tell you this, though: I hate the red. HATE IT. - Akiva
LPH™ and his dog P™
[Amigo]: Giving this FF app a go.
The speed of liking is a bit slower than on BuddyFeed - LPH™ and his dog P™
Getting to the actual story from the open screen is easier on Amigo because there is an > - LPH™ and his dog P™
The main screen has the word "Link" to click and follow - LPH™ and his dog P™
Is it free or paid? - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart
IRT Amigo, I'd love to be able to add a photo from my iPhone into a post .. BlogPress is able to do this ... - LPH™ and his dog P™
Zulema - another important point. Amigo and BuddyFeed are $2.99 while AlertThingy is $0.99 - LPH™ and his dog P™
There is a "-" sign in line with the comment and like button to unsubscribe to the person ... - LPH™ and his dog P™
I like that the main screen has a "Me" link .. BuddyFeed "hides" that area - LPH™ and his dog P™
The public button is a good way to see "new" people you are not subscribed. If you are interested then just click on the "+" - LPH™ and his dog P™
The "more" takes you to options such as "subscriptions" but be careful if you tap ... you might be waiting awhile on that one ... - LPH™ and his dog P™
BuddyFeed refresh is far superior. On Amigo, a refresh removes the previously viewed stories whereas BF adds to the ones on the feed ... - LPH™ and his dog P™
I've been trying out Amigo also, and so far I like BuddyFeed a lot better. I can customize the menu bar at the bottom on BuddyFeed, and I don't like Amigo's "real-time" view. Part of why I like BuddyFeed is because its interface doesn't mimic FF real-time. Also the subscribe/unsub button in Amigo is a little confusing, since a thread from a person who I follow was marked with the "sub", implying I'm not already subbed to her. - Cheryl Jones
Excellent points Cheryl - and yes - the view on Amigo isn't working for me either. - LPH™ and his dog P™
I wish some of the BlogPress features were added into the FF apps ... being able to add photos at the time of creating an entry ... - LPH™ and his dog P™
Angry iPhone Owners Twitition for Lower 3G S Upgrade Prices - http://mashable.com/2009...
I guess they never heard of "Buyer Beware" - Rustic Thoughts
Leo Laporte
Live now: The Gillmor Gang with Steve Gillmor, Mike Arrington, Hugh McLeod, Andrew Keen, Kevin Marks, and Loren Feldman. http://live.twit.tv Discuss here...
how did he die ? - John Hillestad
legal herion ? - John Hillestad
I don't wanna sound smushy but the world would be a worse place without Arrington, don't care if you guys love him or hate him xx - David Lloyd
Oh, just found this chat... thanks - Tina Chase Gillmor
wow - Karoli
kevin's link into live.twit.tv breaks - Karoli
my thoughts and prayers go out to his friends and family. also wish long life and good health to all of TWiT Army - Andrew Johnson
wow - David Lloyd
wow... - Chris Heath
I know serious Leo, that's serious Leo. - Mike Lewis
this will be news [edit: and it was http://www.google.com/search... & http://news.google.com/news... and personally I think Gawker had pretty good coverage of the whole dust-up http://gawker.com/5282089... ] - Chris Heath
no drama leo - Chris Heath
by that logic every person who revierws a product would be biased - David Lloyd
Techcrunch SUCKS! - Jason Hansen
I'm so happy! - Jason Hansen
wow - just wow - Devin Baines
shortest gillmor gang ever - Karoli
lol that was classic - Chris Saad
Wow, social media drama! - imabonehead
Wow, I never saw Leo get mad before. That's a first. - Dave
/me applauds Leo for standing up to Arrington's crap - Omar Egan
Leo blew his top! - John Hillestad
It's about time someone put Arrington in his place. He is always so cocky! - Jason Hansen
man i only just caught the end - what happened? - h1ro
I missed it too - Simon Wicks
about time - Jim Posner
arrington accused leo of being biased b/c he got a review Palm Pre - Karoli
Props Leo - Nick Rae
Arington said Leo was biased because he has a review unit, Leo is the ULTIMATE ethical tech journalist. FUCK YOU ARRINGTON - David Lloyd
Leo got a review Pre & Arrington was giving Leo crap about it. - Jason Hansen
Leo for President - Matthew
what a shitty move from arrington - leo would never do that sort of a thing he is always so upfront - h1ro
wow. missed arringtons part but saw leos reaction twit live is running reruns. - Kiran Patchigolla
Kinda felt that one coming for a long, long time. - Mike Lewis
Arrington should not disrespect Leo on his own network - Steven (optionshiftk)
The problem with arringtons argument is that every single review unit in history must mean ervery reviewer was biased - David Lloyd
wow from condolences to troll in under 10 minutes. arrington needs to take his meds.You rock Leo - Andrew Johnson
Arrington's an asshole - Devin Baines
What jealousy can cause. +1 Leo - David Schmidt
@Michael that was indeed quite an over-reaction - Chris Saad
relax people... let's leave the name calling out of here - decjr
Mike just proved his bottom feeder business model by attacking one of the most trusted people in tech - Matthew
Sorry about that guys, but I've have enough of Arrington's trolling. - Leo Laporte
michael arrington Leo always discloses that info - Andrew Johnson
got funky hold music on calliflower - Kevin Marks
Mike, I agree, that should be disclosed, but the tone indicated bias and it was disrespectful! - Mike Lewis
You have nothing to apologize for Leo - Matthew
Leo is not for sale, fuck you king of the trolls, you always think you are right - David Lloyd
You did the right thing Leo! - Omar Egan
as much as Leo maybe right... he really should be more professional.... - John Hillestad
@leo i don't think anyone that knows your work would *ever* think of you not being a stand up guy on disclosure - h1ro
Totally out of line Arrington-if you did your research you would have seen that Leo gave a fair review of the pre-he didn't say it was 100% perfect - Harvey Birdman
nothing like factions to spice up a 10-minute Gillmor Gang episode. ROFL - Karoli
No need to apologize Leo How you feel and how you react id your right no worries - Erle Stride
Seemed a little uncalled for, I think Arrington was justified in asking to get the facts out there, but then again, I don't know their relationship to each other, maybe Arrington was being rude, maybe there's a code you guys like to follow. - Colin
did i miss something? - Kevin Marks
I agree. Leo has a history of owning Palm products and he was happy to see the Pre possilby bringing Palm to life again. Never once was it a biased comment. It was him being honest. My friend has a Pre... I have an iPhone.... people that don't have an iPhone or don't want an iPhone, the Pre will be a great choice. Arrington is a jerk. - Jason Hansen
yes Kevin - Matthew
the audio should go viral soon - Jim Posner
Kevin, yeah. A small nuclear implosion. - Karoli
Why are you confused Arrington? Are you serious? - Jason Hansen
Professional? It's his network!! He doesn't have to put up with Arrington's crap. In any event I think Arrington needs to be more profesional and stop all that thoughtless crap he says all the time. - Omar Egan
well, that was interesting. - Chris Pugh
Hehe - this the Real Time Web in action, that's fo sho - Devin Baines
you exist only to cause conflict mike, thats your purpose in life - David Lloyd
Mark, that's kind of harsh. Just sayin'. - Karoli
You rock Leo - don't take that crap. Arrington is a troll and just trying to bait you. Stick to your guns on this one. - Mike
Just like to say I love what all of you guys do, laying your opinions out there and getting into heated discussion, I wouldn't like it any other way. - Colin
@Michael u do lots of dick things to amuse yourself - but this wasn't one of them heh - total over-reaction - Chris Saad
thats the point ...its HIS network... storming off mad is not professional..... as much as Leo was right to be mad , he should have just cut him off.... - John Hillestad
michael arrington doesn't seem to be able to not be in provocative mode when talking about products and services - leo called him out when he said "what are you gonna do about it?" so leo did something about it... kinda sux cuz i was liking the gillmor gang, but i respect leo laporte for standing up for himself in this instance even if it was a big misunderstanding - Chris Heath
apologies if i overeacted xxx - David Lloyd
Jeez, I leave for 20 minutes and miss it? you have got to be kidding me. This live stream approach is pissing me off. - Aron Michalski
It's his network, running Arrington's show... Leo did the right thing. - Omar Egan
Leo would have disclosed it was a review model. There was no need to accuse him of being bias just because it was a review model. Leo might have over reacted a little but Arrington was questioning his honesty and Leo maybe over enthusiastic but he his not dishonest. - Kim Landwehr
I'll be uploading the audio here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack
as we are all effectively coming into leo's front room, anyone should be polite to our host - h1ro
yeah, why would Mike say "What are you going to do about it"? is he really that caveman-ish? - Matthew
kim they were talking about how it was a review model... - Chris Heath
Any chance we can hire someone from the Zapruder family to document this stuff? - Aron Michalski
Chris is right... Why would you ask, "What are you gonna do about it?" That was very childish. - Jason Hansen
@jason who said that? - h1ro
I have been so frustrated with many of the people on the Gilmor Gang, but someone needs to be talking about this stuff... [edited/retracted part of this comment] ... I don't think Leo should to take over, I just think something needs to happen to get the show refocused on the content and not the personalities. - Joel Asaro
Guys, Leo is human as is everyone. I'm not familiar with the previous relationship that he had with Michael, but he's probably having a bad day and got annoyed to be mistreated by Michael just like he did. I also dislike when people have prejudices against others. Furthermore, Leo was planning to buy his Pre a long long time ago. The fact that he got a review unit in does not make him biased. - Paulius G
If the Mike Arrington supporters ever bothered to watch Leo's shows, they would have seen he has stated it was a review model and even stated he will probably stay with his iPhone. So get a clue - Harvey Birdman
Joel, I love Leo, but he should absolutely NOT take over Steve Gillmor's show. - Karoli
cliff - please call me if you can - Tina Chase Gillmor
the thing i was most excited about leo hosting the gillmor gang is that there might be some decent production values! - h1ro
I agree with Kim Landwehr. I have never been able to find a moment in which Leo has been dishonest .. keep workin' it Leo! - John Blanton
tina - which #? d msg me. - Cliff Gerrish
Waiting for the TC post :) - Chris Saad
im sure mike will make a post out of this yes :) he will have a provocative title and claim he did nothing wrong - David Lloyd
Joel, that's TWiT (on sundays) - Chris Heath
Arrington - Leo said it was a review unit. To start spinning it that he may be "influenced" on a guy who's spent his entire career being an ethical journalist was unnecessary... especially when your hosting your show on his network. I know its in your nature but bro, that's not what the show is about - get a pause button. Stop burning bridges. - Thusenth
I'll miss Mike Arrington =( - Colin
just wild to hear Leo Laporte say "Fuck you"...he must've been brewing for awhile. - Karoli
Karoli - i was shocked too! - Chris Heath
yes, it was brewing for months - David Lloyd
Went downstairs just as everyone was signing on - came back up and it's over - :p - LPH™ and his dog P™
I think that's the first time I've seen angry leo - Chris Pugh
Mike Arrington, has a way to trip peoples trigger, he seems to get a kick out of it. Like it makes him a big man. - Kim Landwehr
Well, come on.... Arrington has been an ass for how long? - Jason Hansen
What's next a 5 minute NGL @ 3am PDT? - Aron Michalski
Wondering if somebody minds if we put the recording of this, shortest ever Gilmor Gang onto YouTube? - Mike Hellers
I won't miss him.. The show is always better when Arrington's not on the show anyways. - Omar Egan
years no doubt :p - David Lloyd
I agree with Leo 100% here. I would have said this in the IRC chat, but would have been booted. - Jason Hansen
I feel bad for Steve and Mrs gillmor tho - David Lloyd
Go Leo! :-) - Moobie
Is Tina Gillmor still in here? - Jason Hansen
Aron, a 5-minute NGL at any time of day would be more than what it is now. LOL - Karoli
Leo spends a lot of his own money on products to be sure that he doesn't "owe" manufacturers anything. Even his advertisements are only for products he uses and likes himself. He only requested this unit because he records today, the day the Pre goes on sale, so he couldn't go out and buy one. If Leo is biased about a product or a company it's because he genuinely likes it. It's something Leo takes very seriously, and he had every right to be upset at someone impugning his honor, rightly or wrongly. - invariant
Kind of like telling a friend his kids are ugly while crashing at their house for the weekend...don't be surprised if you are shown the door. - Jim Posner
very true, invariant - Eric Florenzano
good point invariant - Chris Heath
hey Tina - sorry this happened - Hilary Talbot
Tina, I have a good feeling this will work itself out :) I think that boiling point just needed to happen and cooler heads will prevail :) - Mike Lewis
Incredible: Someone already updated Arrington's wikipedia page with a short description of the incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Steven (optionshiftk)
The Mike: Arrington will never change. - Jason Hansen
Iunno invariant, I still think the question wasn't that crazy, and I was interested in the answer until I realized it really upset Leo. - Colin
I would be upset at having my integrity challenged too. - Karoli
love you tina, you are a top chick xxx - David Lloyd
I JUST POSTED TO YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Mike Bracco
Jason, agree, which is why you won't hear Leo and Mike together on GG anymore. - Mike Lewis
Tina.... MWAH. I'm coming your way next week... - Karoli
thanks @Mike Bracco - detorn
I think Leo is officially in the Gillmor Gang! - Wo
Karoli - let's get together when you do - Tina Chase Gillmor
Colin - I'm not necessarily saying Mike was wrong to ask, I'm just saying that I could understand Leo's reaction. - invariant
In my best cartman voice "I'm taking my network and going home." - Paul E. Ester
I'm very shocked... for the record - Tina Chase Gillmor
crazy that this happened just signed up on ff to participate in the show - Will Fifer
What happened? - J. Gilbert - Joe Gilbert
I'm sad my GG was cut short. It's my favorite show of the week. - Wo
Hmm, I just re-watched the Youtube video, Arrington saying, "What are you going to do about it?" was childish heh, Leo called his bluff. - Colin
yeah the "what are you going to do about it" from arrington probably not a great move - h1ro
Just watched the video again - Seriously, Mike did nothing wrong heh - Chris Saad
re what happened Arington said Leo was biased because he has a review unit, Leo is the ULTIMATE ethical tech journalist - David Lloyd
If I was not there to see it live I would guess it was staged. - Steven (optionshiftk)
He never said he was biased - listen carefully - he just said let's get the disclosures out of the way and mentioned that Leo was one of the few to get a demo unit - that's it - Chris Saad
it was not staged, the anger was real - David Lloyd
Leo always seemed to be above the GG shenanigans but it's nice he's now down to the GG level. I respect that. - Wo
I thought Leo was being facetious - Steven (optionshiftk)
If things didn't get broken once in a while I might not think you guys were actually fighting, so keep it up! lol ;) - Colin
I think the "what are you going to do about it" was the kicker - Chris Pugh
So I take it there isn't going to be a Gillmor Gang this week? - Dave
I really hope it's not the end of TGG on TWiT. - Wo
GG is not dead, it will be back - David Lloyd
just not on twit - David Lloyd
@chris i think the "what are you going to do about it" wasn't exactly a calming move - more a troll move - h1ro
well Paul, Mike did ask Leo what he would do about it. He did something. He cut his ass off - russellcoleman
Chris, remember Mike was not watching the video, so he though Leo was being facetious - Steven (optionshiftk)
Damn, I slept through the Gillmor Gang, sorry Steve (I flew back from Virginia this morning and was dead tired. - Robert Scoble
yes russelcoleman haha - David Lloyd
got it on facebook too @russtbarnacle - detorn
Leo took his ball and is going home. - Wo
arrington has been a complete assclown on the show before - Moose
you missed a classic Scoble - David Lloyd
lol - detorn
it takes alot to upset Leo, i mean REALLY pset Leo - David Lloyd
Now this is really getting Web 2.0, even the Robert Scoble is here! - Paulius G
@Robert you can re-watch the whole 5 second show here http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Chris Saad
@scoble http://www.youtube.com/watch... action replay - h1ro
This had been brewing for a while.... It was only a matter of time.... Leo defended himself and was correct in doing so, It`s his network and his credibility which was questioned. - David Peralta
russtbarnacle - do you see any irony in the claim of the real-time web youtubed, friendfeeded, twittered and archived? LOL - Karoli
Maybe Scoble could have calmed Leo down. - Steven (optionshiftk)
Dan is censoring the irc chat room... - John Hillestad
I was looking forward to the Pre discussion. - Wo
Before Thursday, Leo had said that he intended to buy a Palm Pre as soon as it came out, but that he'd like to get one a bit early, if possible. His radio show is on Saturday and he wanted to have one to review during that show. I don't think he gets review units very often; this one was something of an unexpected surprise. I think he only got it on Thursday. - Troy
Robert Scoble - call Steve in 10 minutes or when you're alert - Tina Chase Gillmor
hundreds of peopel are watching this thread btw in real time - David Lloyd
I suppose it's just me, but seriously, half the time this show is "real time real time" and Scoble screaming FreidnFeed, power to Leo - Chris Lindhartsen
think Leo was beyond calming down, it was weeks of little snide commentsb y arrington that exploded - David Lloyd
was great a few weeks ago when Loren made Arrington cry and go home - Moose
Leo really is doing a tremendous favor donating his time to broadcast the GG. After a 3 hour radio show, who could help but be cranky. - Steven (optionshiftk)
Gillmor Gang continues. It has been around for years before twit - Tina Chase Gillmor
HAHA, awesome, Leo put the Pre unboxing video on! - invariant
Tina, wasn't it supposed to record on Friday at 3? - Karoli
Mike will apologize and that will be that. Leo felt insulted and it seemed to be a misunderstanding. Arrington respects Laporte and Laporte respects Arrington. - Wo
I just watched the video. GG will survive, but without Arrington. - Gilbert - Joe Gilbert
Thanks to whomever posed the incident; some things never change. - Aron Michalski
Sounds reasonable Mark, and I remember that Moose. To be honest, it's Leo's network and he can do as he wishes, and if you throw torches in his house, he's bound to crack eventually. Glad to see this up again, I missed it. - Chris Lindhartsen
not angry at you or Steve, you are first class professionals tina xx - David Lloyd
"Arrington respects Laporte and Laporte respects Arrington." I have no idea about arrington but leo has called him a troll several times - jccalhoun
they shut the IRC down. FF is just as good - Mike
Why is Dan muting the IRC chat? Just because he doesn't like to see people talking about what just happened? - tollie williams
Just hope Arrington does not publish a defamatory post about Leo. - Steven (optionshiftk)
Yes...Karoli... but we had a family problem yesterday - Tina Chase Gillmor
Dan is a tool - David Lloyd
Tina, sorry to hear that. :( I nearly missed the fun. - Karoli
its funny everyone in California is a liberal until they CENSOR their own irc chat room.... very ' bush ' thing to do Dan.... - John Hillestad
There's a dictator in the IRC chat? Not cool. - Colin
There was use in shutting down the chat. People will use FF to discuss the incident. - Steven (optionshiftk)
that irc chat has more drama and BS going on.. i swear it needs to get a Daytime Emmy - Moose
I'd love to see Arrington go after Leo - Leo has waaaaaay more ethical clout than Arrington and the respect of the whole community / industry - Mike
you can't censor something if you aren't the government - jccalhoun
FF just gained a lot of points. - Colin
I am behind you leo - Theodore Grabow
Leo can do whatever he wishes with the IRC chat, it is on his server. Let's respect his authority. - Steven (optionshiftk)
Leo's rant > Christian Bale's - Chris
twit irc has never been a free speech zone. go in there and say the f word and see how long you last - jccalhoun
if Leo told Dan to shut down the IRC that's one thing, but I think Dan just made an executive decision which is only going to fuel the fire - Mike
jccalhoun after today that may be changing. LOL - Karoli
yeah the irc server is a bit odd, i dont think leos audience is children, who need protecting from big naughty words - David Lloyd
Been there jccalhoun, that's why I try to spend more time here. - Colin
Whoa. Not sure what to think about all that, but "Whaddya gonna do about it" is a pretty bullying -- even thuggish -- thing to say... - Amyloo
Oh please, if there's any time to moderate a chat room, it's now. - Bwana ☠
there is/was an adult irc channel - Moose
And our point Bwana, is that there is never a time to moderate. - Colin
mark, actually there are a fair number of tweens in there. - jccalhoun
hey Amy - Hilary Talbot
Leo had a right to be angry but I wish he hadn't gotten so angry as to close the show, would have been better to see them fight it out as to the Pre, a few fuck yous and then go on with the show - Stephen Pickering
facebook real time chat is better to be honest, we can speak our minds without being banned by those power hungry mods - David Lloyd
Never a time to moderate eh? Well have fun - Bwana ☠
hey hil, did you catch that? - Amyloo
My 2 cents, I'm behind Leo 100%, there is no need to give assholes like that airtime. - Robert Hafer
yes, it was all over in minutes... - Hilary Talbot
Yes.. Gillmor Gang is off ... Arrington out line .... for third time .... - Michael Holzinger
yes cos preteens have never heard curse words, their lives will be destroyed! - David Lloyd
Chris - don't be silly. Leo's rant was nothing. Is everyone so bored today that they have to get off on this nonsense? - LPH™ and his dog P™
I think Dan did not like people posting the youtube links to the F bomb so he censored the room like he would Gitmo - John Hillestad
I think leo felt slighted from steve when he wasn't introduced in the beginning. During the arrington exchange Steve is laughing away. - Paul E. Ester
Besides, Bwana, it just sends the conversation here... until this thread gets deleted (if it does). - tollie williams
i'm guessing the people talking about "power hungry mods" are people who pissed off the mods... - jccalhoun
Dan runs a tight ship - russellcoleman
When someone is typing the letter "a" 600 times a minute and actually ruining the service, sure, use the system to fix that, but other than that, this current mute is silly. - Colin
Yeah, because IRC is a right, not a privilege - Bwana ☠
I would assume Leo will delete this conversation - Steven (optionshiftk)
oh, I love it when people are called 'power hungry mods'. It usually means they've done something right. - Karoli
Tina: I will call Steve. Wow, sounds like I missed a something. - Robert Scoble
the biggest thing to happen in the TWITverse in like...forever...and Dan shuts down the chat? weak! - zefyr
If this thread gets deleted by anyone it'll re-start somewhere else... You just can't stop it. - Holger Eilhard
Arrington abuses Scoble all the time, but Scoble just laughs - Stephen Pickering
I wonder if killing the show was what Arrington had in mind as a response when he asked "Whaddya gonna do about it?" - Thusenth
Robert - you certainly did - Devin Baines
OK Robert... yeah, you missed somethiing - Tina Chase Gillmor
Can they just do the show today without Leo. They have a great panel and I want my GG this week. - Wo
Of course not Bwana, but if you want to facilitate open discussion, keep your channel open. - Colin
cut & paste this thread to prove it ' existed ' - John Hillestad
LOL @ Scobles understatement - Moose
google indexes this stuff fast anyway - Karoli
Steve says GG will resume as soon as we can make new arrangements - Tina Chase Gillmor
resume as in today.. somewhere else? - Moose
good old steve, another one of the good guys - David Lloyd
today Tina? - Wo
thanks for the update @tina - h1ro
any one with firefox could have downloaded it already for "posterity"... - Aron Michalski
Will Steve try and stream it over ustream? - Steven (optionshiftk)
not today maybe tomorrow or Monday after WWDC - Tina Chase Gillmor
Here's a similar incident that happened in the past: http://www.techcult.com/wired-v... - invariant
@Bwana Moderation certainly helps in many cases, but it's also nice to have an unmoderated place to chat for those that want it. - Antoniu
TWiT is much more than just the Gillmor Gang though. - Jason Hansen
Aron, Theatre of the Absurd is an excellent description. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Karoli
I'm not sure why it pushed my buttons so hard - closing down the show was overreacting for sure and I apologize for the disrespect it showed the other panelists. Arrington is a piece of work. I can think of one time when he stimulated the conversation in a very positive manner (his question about how to respond to an invitation to talk from a guy he was slamming) but most of the time he... more... - Leo Laporte
Well Tina, if we can help by being an audience, just let us know when and if it's happening... - Aron Michalski
This is absolutely asinine. Leo Laporte has done nothing but good for his audience and viewers in the past. Leo deserves better than to work with some boldfaced idiot like Arrington. Leo was NOT in the wrong by any means necessary. I couldn't care less if I ever heard from Arrington again. - David Ford
And Mike really wonders why people "do things" to him...? - Holger Eilhard
good statement Leo - David Lloyd
I would have to say that Arrington was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was a BIG straw, but Leo has been under a lot of stress as of late. Hang in there Leo! - Patrick Hall
Why isn't the Gilmore Gang part of the whole TWiT feed in iTunes? - Michael Kaiser
Well done Leo, he really is a troll and I applaud you for not putting up with his shit. - Simon Tracey
WTG Leo - Moose
he is a troll, the king of the trolls, but he is just so damn powerful and influential :( - David Lloyd
Leo: Let Gillmor Gang do their own thing. - Jason Hansen
Jason is coming to the TWiT network btw, as a sindicate - David Lloyd
It's all fun and games until you get kicked off TWiT - Bwana ☠
Does Gillmor Gang get posted somewhere after the fact? http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ hasn't been updated since April. - Thusenth
@Leo Thanks to you sir for standing up for us. I for one have NEVER liked Arrington. I don't think the GG should continue on TWiT. - David Ford
You called his bluff Leo, I say continue without Arrington, if that's possible. - Colin
Wow. Leo's response to what happened was very honorable. That shows the difference between Leo and Arrington. Arrington would never have the decency to respond in such a reasonable way on FF. That's why we love Leo. - Steven (optionshiftk)
Oh No, ARRINGTONS POST is up oN TC - David Lloyd
doesnt mention leo tho - David Lloyd
lmao Bwana - Moose
@leo i don't think anything that happened today has even slightly damaged my opinion of you or the Twit network. it seemed like arrington was deliberately trying to push your buttons for whatever reason. i think you made the move that was right for you at the time. keep up the great work and go have a nice cup of peppermint tea - h1ro
What an interesting political dilemma. Leo won't do anything with Arrington, Steve edits TechcrunchIT - Karoli
I would never kick you off Bwana! - Leo Laporte
Leo: The only people you didn't disrespect was Steve Gillmor, he laughed through the whole thing, & Arrington. - Jason Hansen
GG Never felt like the right vibe for TWiT. Don't blame you for how you feel Leo. No worries. Please come back on and we can do something fun. - Libertine
Yeah Karoli. Therein lies the difficulty. - Leo Laporte
Looks like Leo does have some weight behind him - Earthquake just felt in the Bay Area. - Mike
Wow, I missed a lot. Leo, keep Gillmor Gang off of TWiT. You did the right thing, and I thank you for it. - TeraDyne Azurepaw
Leo :) - Bwana ☠
I think they're saving up so that catching up on back episodes will fill your hard drive... - Aron Michalski
Stick to your guns Leo. Integrity is everything. - Chuck
Leo, in response to your question of whether to cancel the GG, I personally like it on TWIT Live. - Steven (optionshiftk)
"Dan if all the chat is going to be for the next half hour is people obsessing about it - i think it's best not to have open chat." WTF? lol - Erle Stride
Wow, never seen Leo like that. Gotta defend yourself if someone thinks your being bought out. - Adam Windisch
Let's go back to broadcasting GG the old way... I want to throw Mike off the show. - Jerry Schuman
wow can't believe I missed it give em hell Leo. Please don't cancel the gilmore gang though, I love to hate those guys - BryanSchuetz
MP3 of the whole show: http://www.archive.org/downloa... - Jack
The thing about Leo, he wouldnt even advertise a product he doesnt love! he has to ADORE A PRODUCT to endorse it - David Lloyd
I think Dan is out of line cutting off IRC, if Leo didn't want conversation about this he would have deleted this thread. - Mike Saraf
Well, my vote is that the Gillmor Gang continue without restriction. If restrictions mean not working with you, Leo, then I guess that's my vote. - Karoli
I could do without GG on Twit Live personally, never felt like a good fit compared to the rest of your shows. Would personally rather see your time/energy on more interesting things (the new Google Show, for example). - Patrick Sullivan
@mark link for arringtons post on tc? - h1ro
Erie - I don't blame Dan...I would have just moderated the channel for voiced users though. But he runs it, and there's always other places to chat. - Bwana ☠
Leo, I enjoy the Gillmor Gang on TWiT Live but don't think you should stand for being bated and trolled. - Chris Pugh
I love GG with Loren .. Arrington is a distraction at best - Moose
Just get rid of Mike, everyone else seems to play nice, he's the common denominator in every incident. - Colin
@Mark That post has nothing to do with what happend on Gillmor Gang though. - Antoniu
Bwana Who's Erie? - Erle Stride
it was a mistake h1ro, it said it came from arringtons twitter, but its not about leo but about engineers they poached - David Lloyd
Steve laughed because surely he thought this was a joke - Tina Chase Gillmor
With htat said, I'm no fan of Mike Arrington's. I am a GG fan and a Leo fan. - Karoli
Erle - Erie is you when I'm reading without my glasses - Bwana ☠
i think many of us thought it was a joke for the first few seconds - David Lloyd
:) - Bwana ☠
Leo is going on techmeme? - David Lloyd
I imagine Gilmore and Arrington may be a package deal - zefyr
Bwana I know just breaking balls - Erle Stride
I agree that Dan should unmute IRC. @Bwana, he didn't filter it for trolls. He personally didn't like the TWiT community discussing the current event. IMHO - not the best use of censorship. - tollie williams
I deserved it :) - Bwana ☠
Would be a bit politically touchy for Steve to toss Mike off GG to stay on Twit network...just sayin'. - Karoli
irc has a gossip filter? - Moose
Isn't this all Marc Canters fault? He usually brings the sunshine to the gang. - Paul E. Ester
So did anyone happen to record video of the show? I missed it - BryanSchuetz
IRC is back for anyone interested - Mike
Dan - do your thing. I have an inkling of an idea of what you're going through. - Bwana ☠
Maybe they can alternate Mike and Leo each week? - Dave
So lets see Huge issue happens in Twit And the way Dan feels to deal with it is to NOT allow Leos' Army to discuss it? WOW - Erle Stride
FF > IRC - David Lloyd
Dan, good thing tomorrow is a slow tech news day, huh? :P - Mike Lewis
until they add custom formatting here? Lo - David Lloyd
Wow I've only seen two episodes of GG so far. Gotta say last weeks show was better. Hang in there Leo. - John Brazel
you got that one right Professor. - John Blanton from twhirl
Some people are calling this set up...i don't believe it, but i guess its possible. - Zee.
Full show here, it was good at the beginning: http://www.archive.org/downloa... - Jack
RT Jason Calicanus "This is what happens when I resign from the Gillmor Gang... everyone loses it! :-)" - David Lloyd
Doing set ups is not Leo's style, which is the reason I absolutely don't believe the theories of this being intentional. - Paulius G
Yeah, for a moment I thought it was staged, like all this Bruno Eminem thing, but I guess it's NOT. - Nir Ben Yona
If this was a setup then Bruno's balls in Eminems face was real - Chris Pugh
well Leo can act, but that would be an oscar performance - David Lloyd
Zee: it's not setup. Boy, this has kicked off a whole debate in the scoble household with Maryam and Halley Suitt. I sure missed a humdinger to sleep through! - Robert Scoble
Just to be clear, I almost always buy the products I review, mostly because I don't like "owing" the PR folks and I hate the "when are you planning on covering it" phone calls, but also to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. My policy when I accept a review unit is to return the unit and buy one at full retail if I want to keep using it. I don't even do "friends and family... more... - Leo Laporte
Well said Leo! - Harvey Birdman
I wonder if the show notes are on the twit wiki yet - David Lloyd
Leo has 30 year history of integrity - David Lloyd
@Leo Mike never accused you of otherwise - Chris Saad
Leo: I just received a Palm Pre unit that I have to return in seven days, too. - Robert Scoble
He was just getting the disclosures out of the way - Chris Saad
Leo, as someone who occasionally reviews products too, I totally get where you're coming from. Questioning your integrity was out of line and yes, trollish. - Karoli
Leo you are beyond reproach. - BryanSchuetz
right on - and that's why we all respect your opinion - h1ro
Chris, there was more than that to it - Karoli
We know, Leo, and we trust your reviews as a result - Devin Baines
Not so Chris - he very clearly was implying that there was some quid pro quo for the review unit. - Leo Laporte
Thank you Leo. Now, to those of you who said otherwise about Leo, I have the same thing to say to you as he said to Arrington. - David Ford
What Mike asked was fine, and how Leo responded was fine, what was not fine was the comment, "What are you going to do about it?" - Colin
No he really wasn't - listen to the youtube recording - he stopped you before you even reviewed the thing and just wanted to get the disclosure out of the way - Chris Saad
You don`t have to explain yourself Leo, your integrity is well recognized and we don`t pay attention to trolls. We are behind you 100%. I say the show takes a hike - David Peralta
re colin, flame baiting? - David Lloyd
Sorry guys, but all I can think of right now is : Man I love friendFeed - TunisianGuy
It was snarky, and the reiteration of the "free pre" thing was just the extra stab. - Karoli
can you call tina please Leo xx - David Lloyd
@tunisianguy i just wish that friendfeed would autoscroll to the bottom of this page when there is new content - h1ro
Awesome statement Leo, I just reblogged it so people are clear - Bwana ☠
@Leo as I said above - Mike does lots of crazy things - this wasn't one of them - his point was "did u get a free one, wow most of us didn't" - Chris Saad
I'm really bummed out because I like both Leo and Mike and now I feel a bit caught in between. Sort of like having two divorcing parents, I guess. - Robert Scoble
Mark, am I flame-baiting do you mean, or Mike's comment? - Colin
Everyone is on your side Leo! you did the right thing, don't doubt that for a second! - Jack
Gilmor Gang should continue on TWiT, with Steve in charge of the guests he wants to bring on. Michael Arrington can cause friction but there has been plenty of outrageous comments on GG. Arrington is too much of a force in the digital universe to simply ignore. I very much admire Leo for what he is doing with TWiT and understand losing his temper. But, if Leo doesn't want to do the show, then have someone else "moderate" it. We need to hear all sides and opinions presented on shows like GG. - Michael Ritter
Leo got Pwned lol. - Matt Ruiz
friendfeed needs to either put a margin at the bottom of the page or else stop scrolling when i'm typing. it's distracting to type while messages push it down. grrrrr. - Karoli
RT Scoble---pick the better parent then---Leo - Harvey Birdman
Remember when RSS was dead? Those were the days. Ok, last week. - Professor Messer
Leo, we know better, despite what arrington says. I hope you don't think we'd believe him over you. - Lise
We love you Leo! - Moobie
that means two Christmas's Scoble = Win - BryanSchuetz
Harvey: I will stay with both. My friends don't force me to choose. - Robert Scoble
Professer Messer, LOL. Ah, for the good ole' days when RSS died. - Karoli
@Robert choose life :) - Chris Saad
Well said, Robert. - David Ford
Chris Saad that name rings a bell, doesnt he own apml.org? - David Lloyd
Canter was on GG via TWiT.. showing everyone his stash of weed....Steve forgave hime for that and he was back on a few weeks later - Moose
Chris: it's interesting how things like these cause conversations big time. - Robert Scoble
@Mark yes I do - Chris Saad
:25 in the youtube video trying to figure out what Arrington says... - Thomas McGivern
Robert, not so interesting. Conflict always draws observers and opinions. - Karoli
@Robert of course they do - this is one big highschool replay :) - Chris Saad
Leo was very clear it was a review unit. Had Arrington stopped there things might have continued fine. He continued saying "Free Pre"and then said "What are you going to do about it". It was classic bully antics .... - Jason Beck
Chris: life is one big highschool replay. ;-) - Robert Scoble
Hey ProfesorMesser loving the aplus course-you are a great podcaster.(will this get me an A) - earl wallace
Yet another reason for me to continue my personal Boycott of TC. Just as I was starting to read them again, :( - OCoG of FF, Jimminy
@Robert lol true I guess - Chris Saad
Agreed, this is life. - Colin
@Scoble -- lol, wish you'd been there.. might have diffused the situation! - Adnan
Free Pre which yo8u can keep for 7 days? Thats hardly a game changetr - David Lloyd
Leo, I have total respect for you, your approach and network. You had every right to respond as you did. We all know you are a gadget freak and have always appeared to operate with forthright integrity. My own run ins with Arrington for holding a non-Arrington opinion (read popular) probably don't even register with him. It left me feeling as if I had been played and with a very bad taste in my mouth. Success is measured in different ways. - Aron Michalski
In other news, I'm still not getting a Pre, but it's a cool piece of hardware! - Mike Lewis
Jason: Arrington is a bully sometimes, but that's what makes him interesting. Not everyone likes that approach, though. - Robert Scoble
Its not late to bring some peace back - Johni Fisher
You don't bully leo though scoble - Jack
...and the pug barks, life goes on. GG will find a new home, which we may or may not find because it will be real-time only, and we will have to rely on reading our tea leaves or gluing ourselves to Twitter and/or Friendfeed to find it. Ah, the power of the gesture. - Karoli
I feel that Mike is losing 'street Cred" in the tech world..... - Stanley Suan
Just finished watching Apocalypse Now for the first time - crazy film - almost as weird as the @leolaporte @arrington freakout :) - Chris Saad
Adnan: I doubt I could have diffused this one. I would have been forced to be on Leo's side because I have a review unit now from Palm too. - Robert Scoble
You have a "free pre" then in Mikes eyes - David Lloyd
It's on the reddits now - http://bit.ly/u0Ilr - James
"what are you going to do about it?" is never anything but a dick move in my book - jccalhoun
Arrington maybe interesting to the people watching the conversation, infuriating those who are part of the conversation.. - Kim Landwehr
was the google show suposed to be sat and gg on fri? - Steve Ford
Tina I pinged you yesterday about getting together with Karoli. - Francine Hardaway from BuddyFeed
No reason Leo need suffer fools gladly on the network he created. Rock on Mr. Laporte! - John Brazel
Actually Canter is infuriating - Mike is fun :) - Chris Saad
Steve: yes, but the Gillmors had a family issue they had to take care of yesterday. - Robert Scoble
Francine - sorry didn't get it .. Yesterday was a mess for me/us - Tina Chase Gillmor
whats arringtons take on all this? - Dano Hart
he hasnt commented publically, he is with his dog - David Lloyd
Don't you Think the GG meltdown was really about Rajeev's death and raw feelings? - Francine Hardaway from BuddyFeed
I like cheese. - Benjamin Grelle
Who really cares what arrington's take is on anything? - Harvey Birdman
@ right, but it seemed to me that there was lots of stuff going on backstage getting it together and onto youtube and so on, and this will likely disrupt that effort. As well as the political concerns you mentioned before. - Hilary Talbot
I like John Cheese - David Lloyd
Ok! Is there any other show please. I'm all set up. Bulleit Bourbon and everything! Damn you Palm - TunisianGuy
that was @karoli, sorry - Hilary Talbot
Yes, they needed you there Robert. I think you could have diffused it, like you did when Jason and Cantor were getting into it, but I have to admit I've never seen Leo get that angry - Stephen Pickering
Dano - I don't think arrington understands what happened, he said earlier he went for a walk - Moobie
@Harvey lol err... everyone cares - that's why he runs one of the biggest Tech news & events companies in the valley - Chris Saad
Stephen: I agree, I've never seen Leo lose it like that. Arrington makes me feel like that once in a while too. - Robert Scoble
There's just something about the Gillmor Gang that seems to engender flame-ups. It's not the direction I want to take TWiT, frankly. - Leo Laporte
Hard to have a decent conversation when someone is poking you with a shark stick, don't care who it is... - Aron Michalski
I agree with Harvey, no one cares - David Peralta
@Chris-that's funny, I've only heard about him because of Leo. - Harvey Birdman
Leo I've watched you from all the way back since ZDTV. Even helped out in the chats as a ZDTV chat host. Still watch you today. I have deeply respected you from those days and after what I've seen today I still hold very high respect for you. It's not cool to see anyone question anyone about their integrity over any product or anything for that matter. Just sounds more like this Mike... more... - Grady Joslin
has gillmore commented - Steve Ford
I think most of us would agree leo - Jack
@Grady Joslin - Well said, and seconded, sir. - David Ford
I agree with you Leo - Theodore Grabow
Updated the bootleg feed: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack
Agreed Leo - Moobie
Well, at least I didn't have to miss the Belmont Stakes! - Stephen Pickering
Leo I'm with you. You don't need a show like GG on your network - russellcoleman
Waffles are also delicious. - Benjamin Grelle
Halley says "your sleeping was brilliant strategically." Ahh, my nap wasn't planned. Heheh - Robert Scoble
i'm glad to know friendfeed can handle all this.hehe - Dano Hart
arrington posts on techcrunch http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - jccalhoun
Dano: there's a reason why I have been so excited about friendfeed. - Robert Scoble
Decent post by Arrington with some gracious comments - David Lloyd
He respects Leo I think - David Lloyd
Looks like we need president Obama to mediate between the sides and straighten the difficulties, otherwise the gang will be out of its sting. - Nir Ben Yona
@robertscoble yeah I like this better than twitter, but everyones on twitter. That TC post is what I wanted to read was mikes side, just cause I'm curious - Dano Hart
anyway to get the latest post at the top? - detorn
obama is too busy going on ' date night ' - John Hillestad
Good post from Mike. - invariant
Good post form Mike. with an apology - David Lloyd
Mike apologizes to Leo - David Peralta
if Leo was 99% of any other tech journos, he wouldnt have gotten that apology - David Lloyd
Respect exists. - David Lloyd
Do a twitter search on leo laporte and you see thousands of people agreeing with leo. sometimes people just need to be told what they are doing is wrong and leo did exactly that. thumbs up leo - Austin Garrod
yes ive been monitoring a number of comment places and its 95% support Leo across platforms - David Lloyd
Arrington apologizes, the nukes are put away. - Karoli
if most people weren't supporting Leo I don't see arrington apologizing. doesn't arrington have some place besides the front page of techcrunch to apologize? Some place that won't get him more publicity and make him out to look like a big man for apologizing? - jccalhoun
well I am sure this might make techmeme, what do you think? - David Lloyd
Good post by Mike Arrington on Tech Crunch, He obviously spoke before he thought and now is sorry. - Kim Landwehr
In some strange way, I think Palm is the winner here - Bwana ☠
the Arrington apology doesn't sound like an apology... he's saying he is sorry leo was offended by the question, not that he asked it... - detorn
finally got to the end of this thing.... friendfeed conversations are getting way way too long.. guess that's kinda the worry leo has had about 'spam' on ff - Christopher Harris
whats that tech site which has the gutter news? - David Lloyd
I now have a headache - Bwana ☠
James: for arrington, thats a gracious apology, as close as will ever be - David Lloyd
To quote Arrington's "apology" - "Comment moderation is going to be tight on this post, so keep it constructive." Unlike here where we can actually speak out minds and exercise our opinions without moderation. Arrington has lost a lot of credibility here I think. - Simon Tracey
Weakest. Apology. Ever. - Eric Florenzano
Well that was a very nice apology. I might have to reconsider. - Leo Laporte
Leo-don't, he's not worth it. - Harvey Birdman
"And I don’t consider asking a journalist to disclose if a device he says he loves was given to him for free or not as being a particularly trollish thing to do." Arrington see not an apology, an explanation. Not taking sides either way, but call this what it is - detorn
Not one of the finest moments on TWiT but very understandable. Leo's built a great career out of his knowledge and integrity and Arrington seems to be the type to push anyone's buttons he can.... That's what has made them both successful in their own right. Cooler heads will always prevail, and I think this is won't be an exception - Kyle
@bwana I agree on both statements. It is good for palm and I do have a headache from catching up on all this.hehe - Dano Hart
Leo be the better man and accept his apology and keep the show running... - John Hillestad
Whoa. I was just gonna question if Leo was going to reconsider. I think respects you, Leo. Mike is who he is, but I think he realized he screwed up. - Lise
I kind of figure from Mike Arrington, this is about as big of apology as he is going to give. - Kim Landwehr
Make peace not war Leo. - Willem (@wim66) ☠
Leo, my friend, for Arrington, that was as close to getting down and kissing your feet he will ever do to anyone. He respects you. - David Lloyd
Leo, even though I am a fan of the Gillmor Gang, I completely understand if you decide it would be best if they find another host. - Dave
Peace may be the best solution here; although I do agree the GG stands out as having a different tone than other TWiT shows, not one I'm particularly fond of. Maybe a peaceful parting is the best solution? - Jason Beck
You are all friends ....we cant change the past go for a better future - Johni Fisher
Nice, I post a reasonable comment on TechCrunch, and it gets rejected. Now who's biased? ;) - David Ford
Let the show go, Leo. Bitter, yammering tech-challenged guests aren't part of TWIT's future. - Robert Kenney
Yeah, what an apology. Arrington is just butt-hurt that Palm knows he's not a journalist and his "publication" is something to be avoided. - Adam Turetzky
Don't piss off the geeks they love Leo. DOS maybe? - Randy Green
Leo - I would sleep on it over a fine wine and a Palm Pre - Bwana ☠
Wow! Just heard it. I don't know who Mike Arrington is, but Leo has kept me up to speed on all things tech for at least a decade now. I'm sticking with Leo. - Michael Kaiser
In the words of Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap!" The apology was strategy not sincerity. - Benjamin Grelle
I say let Arrington go play in his own sandbox hardly a loss to the tech community if he never appears on another show with Leo. - John Brazel
It just isn't TWiT's style to be honest Leo, plus some of us are really missing Munchcast, even if that probably wouldn't land in place of it. Either way, I'm really tempted to get a Pre at some point, looks like a reallly nice phone. - Chris Lindhartsen
It would be nice if this came to a peaceful conclusion, but it would be a mistake to continue GG on Twit, the show is too trollish and I suspect Gilmore encourages it. - Moobie
No. Arrington is STILL being a douche in his post, 'The fact that few people ever return them is rarely brought up.' (Heavily implicit thuggery.) Leo is above question. No forgiveness. - Libertine
Let it go Leo, they deserve themselves. - Richard Coppen
I just love in Mike's apology where he says "I didn't think..." Yeah Mike, apparently you didn't think. And look what you stepped into. It's shame people are still like that these days. Leo I just say part ways with him. Its not worth supporting such... crap. - Grady Joslin
just told my parents about what happend and the first thing my dad said was, good for leo, i know airengton, he deserves it - Austin Garrod
Leo, as I don't care for the language, I believe you did the right thing, you don't need that type of show, keep up the good work. - Robert Lee
Let Gilmore and his people go. Not what your network needs. - saf
keep GG on TWiT if possible, it's been good - Christopher Harris
I like Leo on GG. A different vibe from the actual Twit show. I listen to most of the shows on the network, GG was/is really cool for what it was/is. - detorn
Disclosure: when I got back from Virginia this morning a Palm Pre was waiting for me. I didn't ask for it, I didn't know it was coming. It is only for seven days (I have to send it back). Now, that said, I think it's a valid question to wonder what Mike is wondering. It's something I always ask myself when I get goodies from the industry. Did I get these because I'm too nice? I used to... more... - Robert Scoble
What was the idea behind having GG on TWiT in the first place? Because of Leo's relationship w/ Gilmour? - Kyle
I left that comment over on TechCrunch. - Robert Scoble
You know, I've been a fan of TWIT and Gillmor Gang since the first time I heard both podcasts. I know Steve and Tina, and have a great deal of respect for what Steve does with the Gillmor Gang. It's pretty aggravating to read all these nasty barbs aimed at Steve. It's a different show. It's a great show. It's not TWIT. But why is it that everyone wants to draw a line between them? - Karoli
I like Leo being direct, admire men that are like that. Also Leo has always been honest.GG had always negative karma. Shut down show and do something better with valuable time. - Heiti Kruusmaa
Well! That was a nice 90 minutes of high drama. Kinda like a made-for-TV movie. Steve did say he thinks it's a video show - Amyloo
wait, has tech crunch never received a test unit? - Austin Garrod
Leo any idea when a real review is going to come, I've caught bits and pieces of your "ongoing" review since the unboxing. The fact that most recently I had heard you'll stick with your iphone, but respect the tech in the pre. - Steve Ford
I can see the Leo Versus Arrington mashups on youtube now? - Randy Green
Karoli: people want to choose sides in fights like this. I don't know why that's a human reaction, but it is. Leo has a lot of very loyal fans. I'm among them. We all ourselves Laporteans, even. I'm also a major fan of Mike Arrington, but Mike often gets people to have a quite different relationship with him. People often see him as rude or worse. That's because Mike often says stuff... more... - Robert Scoble
I thought this thread would be the one with the highest amount of comments on FriendFeed. But here's one with over 6,000: http://friendfeed.com/ideali... - David Schmidt
Robert: Well, having been the butt of Mike Arrington's need to say incendiary stuff, I understand that. However, Steve Gillmor is not Mike Arrington. GG is not Mike Arrington. There is much, much more to GG than Mike Arrington. would be nice to see them judged separately. - Karoli
in ealier conversations with david pogue leo proved his lack of any bias. - Tobias Lewsadder
I hope the gang ( excluding Arrington) from GG will be back on Twit individually at some point. They are all great guests each with strong personallities but much character. It can be hard for so many strong personallities to be in the same room or discussion sometimes but they have done a better job than I could do on the show, so props to them. I think arrington becomes a troll when in the mix, he can't hang with the big boys. JMHO&2C - Andrew Johnson
Leo, GG does nothing to help the TWiT family of shows. Looking across the shows, it should hold no place in your schedule. I'd rather hear something else. - Rob Blatt
Get Mike Arrington on TWiT tomorrow! That = ratings! - Chris
I want The Gillmor Gang on TWiT. It's not consistent in it's quality but often times can be the best show on the web. TWiT will give it the kind of audience it deserves. I hope Leo can work with the Gillmor Gang including Arrington and help them produce and distribute thought provoking content. - Wo
@david wow, wish I knew what that thread was all about - BryanSchuetz
Rob: I think Leo is trying to build a network with a variety of styles and topics. That's key to having a strong network. I know a radio station owner who has both liberal and conservative talk show hosts who hate each other. But by doing that he has a far bigger audience than if he just went all one way where everyone got along nicely. Plus the station looks far more professional and objective than if it were all run by Rush Limbaugh wannabes. Same for Leo's network. - Robert Scoble
I enjoyed GG on TWiT when I was able to see it. It is a group of people with strong opinions and that is not necessarily a bad thing. I didn' - kenneth glenn
The Gillmor Gang is my favorite show on the network, call me shallow and entertainment-hungry, but I really do like when people discuss things with this much passion, especially technology! - Colin
Leo: I think you should reconsider, not because you were wrong to get upset, but because it probably isn't worth cutting all ties. That is too absolute and despite his serious faults Arrington does have things to contribute. That said I totally agree there is just something about GG that causes flame ups and unless that can change you shouldn't have it be a part of TWIT. - Joel Asaro
Colin: we are passionate, aren't we? - Robert Scoble
@bryan: Haha, I thought Google would be assisting. Check this: http://tinyurl.com/qnugbz - David Schmidt
Robert: You are, and I wouldn't have it any other way. - Colin
Colin: people who are passionate often get misunderstood or cause opposite passions in people. I've run into that many times. How many people have asked me if I get paid by Friendfeed because I'm so passionate about it? - Robert Scoble
@david heh, figures who in here reads Cyrillic? - BryanSchuetz
it is the passion and the humor that draws me back. That, and the fact that you all force me to think. - Karoli
If The Gillmor Gang stays on TWIT I think Leo should step out of the "host" chair and be a guest with someone else controlling the board. - Chris Pugh
I've wondered if you get payed by FriendFeed myself hah, nah I'm kidding. - Colin
I feel bad for Steve Gillmor that his show was ruined today by a stupid remark and a temper tantrum. - Wo
Karoli: being on the Gillmor Gang causes me to think harder than anything else I do during the week. Trying to keep up with all the other people is mentally challenging to me. - Robert Scoble
Wo - and that's a first? :) - Bwana ☠
@Chris P - what would that solve? - Lise
so is GG toast? or needs to be reformatted? - Steve Ford
You guys are like professional athletes, putting yourselves on the line with the same opinions we have, so that we don't have to. - Colin
Steve Ford I'm sure everything will be worked out in the next few days - Andrew Johnson
Leo should bring in Merlin Mann to host the GG, now that would be fun to watch. - BryanSchuetz
Lise, Leo could walk off the show and not shut it down. There are other people on the show who made time to be available. - Chris Pugh
i need to say sorry to leo because in the chat room i was mad at him for cutting the show but it was his right to do after what mike said what happed i was on usterem and it got cut off so i didnt see the whole thing so i just saw a video of it so i apology to leo - Andrew Villafane
Steve: Gillmor Gang is not dead. - Robert Scoble
wish it was old days when men cleared misunderstandings with pistols and swords:) then men also choose their words and showed more respect :)... - Heiti Kruusmaa
I figure they will straighten it out between them once they both cool down. - Kim Landwehr
If the show continues, and especially if Mike is still on it, you guys are doing something with the Gillmor Gang that I don't think I've seen in any type of media anywhere else. - Colin
We need that kind of Tech Jerry's TV - TunisianGuy
Gillmor Gang is not dead. Hopefully Newsgang isn't dead either, just waiting for a place in time to be resurrected. But then again, North Korea hasn't apologized to South Korea for the threats...so who knows? - Karoli
Colin: the show will continue. - Robert Scoble
leo laporte has always appeared to me to be a gentleman and to let someone bring you down to their level isnt flattering. the "what are you going to do about it?!?!"comment unfortunately showed the maturity of the conversation. - Tobias Lewsadder
I like GG on the TWIT network and Leo's presence on the show. I just hope that in whatever future there is there is a time shifted alternative to missing it every week. - Aron Michalski
Robert: I too posted on Mike's article. I struggle with his way of drawing out a story because it always appears to be disrespectful to the person he is trying to pry the story out of, typical of mainstream journalism IMHO. The story is more important than the people involved. I think Mike could have been more tactful in light of the great job he did on Rajeev. I know if we wait long enough with those who piss us off eventually show us their good side. - Owen Greaves
hey robert so with the new studio you are makeing you could broadcast it - Andrew Villafane
Interesting that Arrington's swipe at Leo was the same thing that he swiped at me and a zillion others for...as if we couldn't possibly offer unbiased reviews of products/sites/services. - Karoli
I posted the following on Mike's Ouch post: Thanks for the post, Mike. Apology accepted. Now that I know what was going on in your mind, I apologize to you. There seems to be something about the Gillmor Gang that just engenders over the top passion. I’m embarrassed by my overreaction. Peace. - Leo Laporte
Nice, move along people ;) - David Lloyd
Robert/Colin: I hope the shows doesn't just continue, but improves... There has to be a way to have these really interesting and important conversations without all the ego and defending semantic arguments instead of trying to understand one another. - Joel Asaro
Andrew: I don't have the studio built and I don't have the ability to host that here, my bandwidth isn't reliable enough. - Robert Scoble
Nice to see that it all worked out so well. - Antoniu
Wow, things move fast on the www. Nice on you both to offer apologies that fast :) - Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
Leo: nice, hope the show can go on! I think it would be nice to have not so many quick arguments, either, but that's the Gillmor Gang! - Robert Scoble
Joel, pearls don't exist without sand irritating the oyster. Just sayin' - Karoli
arrington is good at what he does and gets results, that cant be disputed. i watched his interview with kevin rose and kevin rose looked so uncomfortable the whole time - Tobias Lewsadder
Lasse: welcome to the real time web! - Robert Scoble
Aw Leo, you're too good a man. He's an a-hole. Don't be embarrassed. - Libertine
Glad both parties apologized. Stupid comment and over reaction. Gillmor Gang next week? - Wo
GG on TWiT is the best match to bring forward thinkers and tech enthusiasts together, it will be great if Leo reconsiders. If not, I will follow Steve and the Gang wherever they decide to continue with this realtime experiment. - Alberto Saavedra
real time web wins again - David Lloyd
leo proves to be a true gentleman!!!!! - Tobias Lewsadder
Arguments is not the problem. Questioning ethics is. Rule #1 Dont fight a land war in aisa. Rule #2 Dont piss of the host when it is dealing with ethics - Darryl Adams
I know this incident will color the future epsiodes of the "The Gillmore Gang" podcast, and the perception of the people who hear about the incident and wonder what, why, who about the podcast. - Stanley Suan
so leo will there be a show next week or you dont want to do it anymore??? - Andrew Villafane
Leo: how about with Steve, have you talked with him? - Robert Scoble
The real time web isn't always puppy dogs and ice creame cones - Chris Pugh
the real time real world isnt either Chris :p - David Lloyd
It's nice to know that you guys are human, and you get much more respect from me knowing that you are. - Colin
Stanley: On the real-time ADHD web, no one will remember what happened yesterday, much less a week ago. - Karoli
Leo, everyone is entitled to get angry when core beliefs and standards are insulted. Just hit the mute button on twitlive next time! Bombs away!!! :) - Wookie
However weird it may sound, it was good to see Leo being able to get upset like that. Just proves he can be human too. Was wondering if he's entire mind worked in a G rating ;) Also proves how passionate he is about his work. And good on being such a gentleman afterwards! Good going Leo! - Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
That's Gracious of you Leo. Time will heal. I think both of you work so hard the stress just mounts. I do wish the show could keep its edginess but not get personal. Debate the issues. You did have a right to be angry, I'm not questioning that. I just wish the show in general got some kind of professional adjustment, if that's the right word, have the structure of Twit where there is debate but it doesn't get personal - Stephen Pickering
Oh dear. Still, in all these years it's about the 1st time. Almost superhuman not to have exploded before. - David Jones
I had never been on Friend Feed before (only heard so much about it on TWiT); however, when all this went down, it was the first place I thought to turn. I finally "get" the hype. - Jason Beck
Jay: Link to Gillmor Gang - http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com - Karoli
Leo works too hard. He's there too much. I wonder who would be an ideal fill in, if he could take more time off? - Stephen Pickering
Wow, I think that posting the incomplete episode complete with Leo's rant/breakdown/whatever it's called is just totally disrespectful to him. Leo's a person who's never had these kinds of breakdowns in the past and I don't think it deserves to be publicized in the GG feed. - Paulius G
Paulius: Leo regrets blowing up as loud as he did, but he has no problem with that video clip - David Lloyd
I'm staying out of this one - let me say though, I wouldn't be following TechCrunch if it weren't for Leo - Leo has serious authority here. - Jesse Stay
Leo didn't break down. He got pissed off. And rightly so. He said what he wanted to say, and he's resolved the matter. Don't see the problem. - Karoli
Paulius: I think Leo more than anyone is aware of the consequences of being live all the time. - Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
Heck, I wouldn't be on Twitter if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have a Mac if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have built my own PC if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't be using Digg if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have an iPhone if it weren't for Leo. I'm dead serious in that - Leo has had serious influence in the things I've tried over the last 5 years or so. - Jesse Stay
Leo, I wouldn't worry about it. Arrington Deserved it! As long as I've listened to your shows, I know that you won't push a product unless you think it's ACTUALLY good, and that if a product sucks, you'll either not talk about it, or trash it if it deserves it. Arrington was just being a dick, and While I wouldnt have shut the whole show down, there's a good chance I would have kicked him off myself. - Justin Flood @justinflood
Do you think Leo will ask Mike for a preview of the Crunchpad??? - Darren Rowley
Just read Michael Arrington's explanation and frankly, I'd like to hear about the "story that is brewing about favoritism at Palm" and TechCruch's analysis of reviews. It's obviously an important and sensitive issue if it engenders situations like we have just witnessed. Leo, bring Michael back and let everyone talk about disclosure issues, favoritism, and gadget reviews from everyone's perspective and experience. Your audience will benefit from a rational discussion of this important issue. - Michael Ritter
I just watched your video with Mike Arrington. You just made a new fan. :D Hope you enjoy your pre. - Jason Pope
I can see why Leo blew up. Arrington is trashy and seemed to question the integrity of someone who actually cares. Not sure why Leo was on Gilmore Gang in the first place. Not the place for real interest/ideas. - Darrel Davis
love ya leo. - Mark Outten
It's nice to get a realtime issue in some sense, to work loose the shaky brickwork. the web is a wild and wonderful place. Although real emotions are involved, the live nature of the content does make certain people respond differently. - Steve Ford
I've trird to watch the Gilmor Gang, but can't get through it. It doesn't fit the TWiT lineup. Leo, let it go, you have better programs that you can do instead. - Brian Cagle
Leo would never waste fbomb for publicity - Art
I like Steve, but I agree with Brian - it's a different audience, not TWiT's - Jesse Stay
Admittedly I don't listen to Leo live very often but after many years of following Leo around the web it was actually very amusing to see and hear the foul language I'm not used to hearing outta Leo. Way to go Leo, I appreciate you sticking up for yourself! :) - Ryan
This just in: I just talked to Dave Winer and he made the most important point: what about the show? I called Steve Gillmor and he's going to try to reassemble the troops (including Mike) and we're going to try this again. I'm on my way into the studio now. - Leo Laporte
YAY! - David Lloyd
Leo needs content. While Twit Live is based on the brand of "Leo", he does allow over voices like PC Perspective and This Week in Fun to use his facilities. He has full editorial control on what he has on his network, and that is his right. I only stated to listen to GG after it came to Twit. So maybe Steve expanded his listener base, but maybe he does not need too. That question is up to Steve - Darryl Adams
Leo you're a good man - Jesse Stay
Wow, thats great Leo. Looking forward to it :) - Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
Lol, god he loves his community doesnt he? - David Lloyd
_serious_ realtime shit - Amyloo
Leo suffers for his audience, now it is out turn :-) - Darryl Adams
gotta love live real time. - Steve Ford
Yes! :) - Adnan
<3 real time xx wish my friends got it - David Lloyd
Can the bandwidth support this episode? Ha! - Michael Kaiser
Then I'll stay up for a while (it's 2:14 am here) - Willem (@wim66) ☠
Incredibly admiral thing to do, a lot can be learned from this whole series of events. - Jason Beck
I've watched Leo "alter" his views going from the pc shows to the mac shows, but I have never felt Leo was or ever would give a positive/negative review to something based upon getting a freebee. - Brian Cagle
Can we get Dave Winer on the show too?! :) - Adnan
we want david winer - David Lloyd
why would youtube delete a keyboard cat vid? - Bwana ☠
Cool :-) I did remember last week you were a little peed about the trolling nature of Mike and I agreed then and more now Good on ya - O W
Wait, who's on their way into the studio right now? - Colin
scoble you going to be ontine for round two? - Steve Ford
Dialogue is good to work through an incident such as this. I'm glad that Leo and Mike responded so soon afterward. Apologies came quick and bitterness didn't have time to set in, which could have caused enmity between them for years to come. I've learned to be careful with strong initial reactions because I may not be totally understanding where the other person is coming from, and that is the source of so many of these kinds of problems. - Allen Blair
The best thing about this video is about 50 seconds in when Loren Feldman realizes Leo Isn't joking around as he bows his head and goes into his happy place while mommy and daddy fight: http://img.skitch.com/2009060... - BryanSchuetz
Lol :/ - Colin
If you guys put this back together, you guys rock, seriously. - Colin
Steve: I gotta drive up to the city, so will be calling in from my new Prius. - Robert Scoble
This video has "Keyboard Cat" written all over it! - Chris
Serenity Now. Serenity Now.... :-) - Jeff Weber
chris can't we get like a keyboard penguin or something.. you know something fresh... - Steve Ford
I'm so thankful that R. Scoble invented "real time web"! I'm joshin' :) Unless he actually did. - Michael Kaiser
I thought Al Gore invented it? - John Brazel
There goes the Bulleit Bourbon? - TunisianGuy
@BryanSchuetz ROTFLOL - Adam Turetzky
don't know about him, but I am done, that's for sure. These apologies took too long to come imho - TunisianGuy
I was missing the show until I saw the article on Techmeme, yay! - Ryan Massie
The show must go on http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Amyloo
Back live woooo! - Moobie
live.twit.tv - TunisianGuy
yayyyyy - TunisianGuy
Someone with mad skills please mashup the GG video with keyboard cat to the tune of "Saturday Nights All Right for Fighting" by Elton John. Ohhh were back live, cool. - John Brazel
Very civilized! Way to get it together guys! Job done! :-) - Moobie
LOL. This is better than TV - Bwana ☠
we need a minute please - Tina Chase Gillmor
I guarantee half the TWiT fans have their recorders going now :) - Bwana ☠
Bwana - Lol! :-) - Moobie
I upped the first part here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... and will do the same with this part - Jack
Was this the "new media" equivalent of O'Reilly's great "F$&k it, let's do it live" outburst? (not to compare Leo to Bill as Leo Rules) - Tim Hughes
I blame the Pre Leo... - Bwana ☠
Personally Leo...I enjoy the show. Hope it continues it is very intelligent 99% of the time. There is a lot to be said about the show...and all that goes on on it. - Kevin Hart
keyboard cat is uploading again...i deleted it because the quality was too poor - Thomas McGivern
I love it, it makes me remember the good ol' days of IRC. - Ryan Massie
Love ya Leo. Takes a big man to own up to a mistake (understandable as it may be) - Scott Edwards
Now the show will be tame :) - Bwana ☠
lol - Chris
LOL stop zephyr...I'll be laughing the whole show - Bwana ☠
You are a class act Leo! - invariant
Arrington's "apology" was merely a bunch of excuses ("I wasn't watching the video, blah, blah") I don't come to TWIT for confrontational tatics like Arrington's. Dialogue and discussion -- yes. Being a jerk -- no. - Joel R
LEO: I was the one who quickly posted the YouTube video (MPB326) and I felt kind of bad about it in a way. I have been following you since your Tech TV days and love what you are about. I think you were totally in the right in this situation although overall I think it was a misunderstanding. Message me if you want the link to add an annotation to the video. - Mike Bracco
Yes, mike's audio is fine. - Cliff Gerrish
leo, you are great. - Oldengrey (Jay)
Well done both Leo and Mike - Kim Landwehr
Perhaps there is hope for the Middle East. - Karoli
Leo, I think you overreacted a tad but I reckon I would've too, Arrington was way to quick and aggressive in his questioning. At least you guys made up. - Marco Ho
Tina, recording part ii - Cliff Gerrish
What Calacanis incident? - Chris
Well done Mike - I have high respect for Arrington after this. - Jesse Stay
I like Arrington's style. - Colin
thanksCliff - Tina Chase Gillmor
it's not the questions Mike asks, it's the snark-laden tone. - Karoli
Questioning a man's integrity without any justifiable reason is an insult and Leo is absolutely correct for what he did. - Paul
Tina, the first part is here if you need it http://www.archive.org/downloa... - Jack
karoli, re: snark, which is what made the contrast with the nice in memoriam so jolting - Amyloo
keyboard cat is back up!! http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Thomas McGivern
This is one of the most amazing interviews I've ever heard. I am learning so much, and gaining a ton of respect for Arrington after this. - Jesse Stay
No doubt about it, these guys are heavyweights. - Colin
The same props go to Leo for being such a great interviewer. - Jesse Stay
Steve is angry :( - David Lloyd
can't blame Steve for being angry. A lot of crap was posted on this stream that was unfair to him and to Tina. - Karoli
Thanks Karoli ... tough few days - Tina Chase Gillmor
Scobey! Welcome to the show! - Colin
Yay, we have ourselves a show - Robert
Jack, are you recording? - Robert
I wish Mike would open up more - he really is a good guy inside, and has great intentions. - Jesse Stay
moving right along... - Brad Kligerman
yep, this part will be up at http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... later - Jack
So what's happening in tech? - Colin
This week in therapy - Thomas McGivern
Leo vs Steve is coming up next... - Chris
Thanks Jack, all those missing these live shows thank you - Robert
As a journalist you have to ask tough questions - Jesse Stay
This is even better then a 2-2 tie in the 12th... oh yeah, the Dodgers won that one. - Brad Kligerman
I'm glad I stayed up (it's 2am here) reading the FF comments and TC comments - I nearly went to bed thinking the show would be taking another hiatus - Jack
Steve has a good wife. - Colin
I seriously cannot believe this has happened. Kudos to you, Leo and definitely Mike for not throwing the F You's back and apologizing so quickly. I am happy that these two have a respect for each other and tech to and us, to come back, publicly apologize and try to continue to do the show. I'm almost teary eyed! - Lise
Leo's in his "battle stance" - Colin
Is this a kumbaya moment or another shit storm? - Brad Kligerman
Leo doesnt need Gilmore's Gang! - Chris
Chris, networks have interdependencies - Karoli
We shall see. - Antoniu
Wow, I just dropped in on some serious stress! - Aaron T. Harvey
Robert remember this is Our community. Leo Gives us a voice and we use it. - Andrew Johnson
I'm not saying everything that is said is correct or needs to be said though - Andrew Johnson
Andrew, so you're saying that because I am a GG fan from way, way back, I'm not entitled to speak, or be heard? - Karoli
For GG to work on Twit network, Steve has to retake center stage on the video feed... the production has to visually and audiably recenter around Steve. - Brad Kligerman
of course i'm not saying that Karoli - Andrew Johnson
I wonder if this video will go viral like Santelli's? - Stephen Pickering
Excellent point Brad - Robert
My point, Andrew, is that Steve has a community, too - Karoli
I do agree with Brad. - Karoli
I'm just saying that the show came to our commmunity so we get a voice too - Andrew Johnson
Yeah, I think out of respect for Steve, Leo should have maybe left, but not pulled the plug - Stephen Pickering
I'm listening to the restart of the show with all the kiss and make up. Bottom line GG doesn't belong on TWiT and should go somewhere else. - saf
Steve needs to stop reading this chat - Robert
i think it is irc that he is speaking of - Andrew Johnson
Wow, this makes for an interesting Saturday online. - Verbal
Steve Gilmor please dont take yourself so seriously - earl wallace
Oh that's not true, Mike. I don't want a fight. The drama was interesting and so is this public apology but I want a show about tech, not flame wars. I can go read youtube comments for that. - Lise
Lots of respect for the content, but seems like its about the people instead of the ideas way too often. - Joel Asaro
Pretty hard not to read the chat....Steve has always been tuned into viewers' responses. - Karoli
FTR I like every single person on this call. I find this show incredibly interesting because they're all truly opening up. I want this to continue if every episode can be like this. - Jesse Stay
We don't have a problem with you Steve, thanks for putting this show together. - Colin
Leo, the drama is the show. - Karoli
i'm confused... leo added drama too - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
This is not going to end well...... - David Peralta
If I wanted Meet the Press, I'd turn on David Gregory - Karoli
This is the most riveting show on any network I've seen in a while, it's genuine. - Matthew
Uh oh, the Middle East won't reconcile - Karoli
Gillmore Gang has value but Steve cant handle the spotlight...welcome to radio, tv, etc if you put yourself out there you need to expect this to some extent - Gary Gannon
I don't get Leo's rap on the 'drama'. Ageed Karoli - Brad Kligerman
Ohhhh.... - Amyloo
Woah - where did Dave Winer come into this? - Jesse Stay
I remember drama on the GG 2 years ago, its not all from the "chat" or even just Dave Winer... - Robert
the content is what it is because of the conflict. It is. - Karoli
Gilmore Gang has always been about conflicting personalities in tech... Leo, you should have known that when you let Steve do his show on TWiT - Ryan Merket
Everything is political. People are passionate. It is what creates pearls - Karoli
Steve's feelings are hurt. I think because what Leo did, by closing the show, really made Steve feel like he wasn't in control. Okay, I get that. I hope they can resolve this now with Steve. - Lise
'do without the drama' Steve Gillmor. Leo has got to understand that statement. - Brad Kligerman
Steve is a gateway drug, like marijuana. - Colin
I think nobody's better than Leo. But geez, once again it seems his ego's in the way. - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
We need Steve to hook all these people up! - Colin
talking about each other is part of the attraction. It is one way to figure out how people think - Karoli
We don't want to see you dead, Mike - Stephen Pickering
There's drama because this show gets bogged down in personality fights. - Joel R
We're not crazy!! *twitches* - Robert
the content and the passion are indivisible - Hilary Talbot
I would never spit on you, Mike. And I'm proud of you for how you've handled all this. - Lise
SteveGillmor - Based on the comments in this thread, I suggest you come back to uStream - Karoli
I <3 you all guys - Jesse Stay
@Jesse The show is happening now because of a conversation that Leo had with Dave Winer according to Leo's post in this FF thread - Antoniu
Sounds like they have patched things up. - Mike Doeff
Mike, it the whole anonymity thing... we don't want you dead. people just shout because they think you won't hear. - Jan Zimak
@321 I don't understand how that has caused drama though - Jesse Stay
Man they are really slamming us here on FriendFeed - Stephen Pickering
Underwear 12 y/os? wtf? - Ryan Merket
What if I'm in my undies AND rational still? heh - Lise
I haven't read anything here that was like life threatening - Stephen Pickering
OMG, you guys have a show where you are critical of your subjects, you get heated and personal sometimes yet blame us in chat for doing the same sometimes too? It is our fault? We are the bad guy? lololol - Andrew Johnson
This chat is infinately more mature and constructive than the IRC chat is - Robert
Is Robert on an AT&T network? Is that how bad it is? - Stephen Pickering
i think leo and mike have made up, but steve is the one with the attitude now - Dano Hart
Please no one tell the IRC chat about this chat - Jesse Stay
That IRC chat is a disaster - Mike Doeff
Being in the chat room is a bit like being at Comic Con, you always think YOU'RE the normal one, but everyone looks a bit crazy to outsiders. - Aaron T. Harvey
I think more of the 12 year olds are on the irc, Robert. heh They're not quite FFing yet. - Lise
Jesse, why does Arrington slam the FriendFeed chat so much? I've never read terrible things here - Stephen Pickering
No, @Dano, Steve is the one that still has something to work out. He's trying to save his show. - Brad Kligerman
Of course Scoble would say it is easy to block people here - Jack
Many of us here are on all chats simultaneously - earl wallace
Brad, Steve's show will go on whether it's here or some where else - Karoli
Stephen, I'm not sure, but this particular chat has been pretty anti-Arrington before this current live stream. He may be referring to that. FF in general has been pretty anti-Arrington from what I've seen. - Jesse Stay
You guys have made that show, you're doing it right now. - Colin
you make it sound like it's all at Leo's command. It's STEVE'S show. - Karoli
can we PLEASE talk about the Palm Pre. I'm drunk already - TunisianGuy
Just missed the GG incident this afternoon, but got to see FF unfurl the story (and the youtube replay). I'm not going to weigh in on the personalities because I just discovered GG this week...I was going to start listening for energetic and insightful banter. Now, I have been thinking about what happened today and about the back-and-forth I've read here. From the few podcasts I've... more... - Jason Miller
gillmorgang is valuable to me... I waited the whole week for this. Their are other people on this thread who also find it valuable. I don't understand why there is a question as to whether it should be on the network or not. If people don't like it, they can skip it and watch the other shows that they do like. - Adnan
why do you want Gillmor Gang to be TWIT II? - Karoli
Seems to me that the back story is that Arrington was jealous that he did not get a Pre and wanted to spoil the fun. Pretty simple. Getting lectured from Arrington on disclosure ethics was the last straw for Leo. - Jim Posner
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I like this show because it's powerful personalities. - Colin
I think the debates and snarky comments are what makes the show great - Gary Gannon
Jim, I think it's a misunderstanding more than anything from what it sounds like - Jesse Stay
why is there a problem with drama? These guys are passionate - Tina Chase Gillmor
Robert I think is friends with everyone. I don't know if I've ever heard of anyone he hates. He's good that way. - Jesse Stay
Jesse, no, Mike really was attacking Leo's credibility, and I'm not anti Mike. I like Arrington - Stephen Pickering
Tina, I have no problem with drama. I'm not in love with SNARK - Karoli
The drama is the reason I listen to GG, and not TWiT - Jack
Gillmor's talking but no one can hear. - Sprague D
Gilmore is always angry, aggressive and unpleasant, and he fosters that. Period. It's not the conversation, it's the tone. It's unfriendly and it's not Leo. If Gilmore wants that as his show, cool. But I'm with Leo in that I don't think it fits well with Twit. - Libertine
Ohh! Awwww. First time in a while to FF and I thought I could catch GG (kinda tough, just look at the sub-domain on TC; I thing they went "underground" for a reason). I appreciate both sides of the story. Everyone should calm down and join my new movement: What Would Spock Do? or WWSD? - coldbrew
Karoli - I think you hint at the problem SteveG is discovering. It's Steve's show on Leo's network... using Leo's live audience, and Leo's live chat... Steve's seeing *Leo's* network react, and not seeing *his* audience's feedback. As a result: he's offended. - tollie williams
Drama is fine, Leo just doesn't like it when people call him out on getting free/pre-released stuff, and saying "Love it! Totally impressed..." -- which he should have said "Palm sent me a 7 day loander to try it out, and I love it, totally impressed" - Ryan Merket
I think if we got Feldman on here he could solve this for us: http://img.skitch.com/2009060... - BryanSchuetz
All I can say is I have gained a completely new respect for Mike Arrington from this show. He manned up to this one, misunderstandings were cleared up, and I see him as an entirely new person after this. I give him my respect on this one. - Jesse Stay
I'm not a regular listener of GG, but the times that I've tuned in seemed like there was drama and people were a bit flaming. I like shows with less drama than GG. I'm not sure who has reason. I don't think that this is black and white. Having the show squeaky clean wouldn't be interesting, but the drama just gets annoying and simply delays the tech. - Paulius G
good point ryan merket - Dano Hart
Moral of the story: Don't call out Leo if he holds the "off" button - Ryan Merket
@tollie very good insight - earl wallace
Stay: Agreed. - coldbrew
Audiences long for access to this show. - Colin
@Ryan that's not the case at all - Harvey Birdman
So, I missed the setup of this call. Is Scoble the moderator? Why is he on? :) - tollie williams
Leo having Steve turned down is EXACTLY what is wrong with the show in its current form - Jack
There's a difference between a spirited discussion and flaming. - Mike Doeff
+1 Colin - Brad Kligerman
You all need to *come back* and make up live. [EDIT: I mean "real time"] - coldbrew
Hug it out guys. - Mike Doeff
Jack, agreed. - Karoli
I agree with Gillmor , no need to change the show... go to Mevio where the ADULTS are - John Hillestad
"With all due respect". Got it. - Sprague D
The show would fit the network if it doesn't disclosing free/pre-released phones. - Ryan Merket
Steve and Leo I think have different audiences. It all comes down to if it's worth merging those audience. - Jesse Stay
I'm happy that Leo cares about us as a community. The normal, non drooling ones, of course. - Lise
Ryan missed a 1 hour Palm Pre unboxing where Leo stated about 20 times it was review Unit...but that's ok. - Bwana ☠
I think we might be seeing the end of the GG/Twit collab. Steve is realising its not working. Leo seems conflicted, he wants to keep the content on the show, but he is not comfortable with it. But Leo does an excellent job of hosting the show. I fear for the continuity and quality of the GG if its not on Leo's network - Robert
Without a community there's no one to consume your content. - Aaron T. Harvey
"I dont care about the community"-Steve Gillmor. My respect has risen for Mike Arrington and lowered for Steve Gillmor tonight.amazing - Dano Hart
Dano, how about the full quote? What he said was "I do what I think is important to do" - Karoli
Can you imagine a professional broadcaster on TV or radio talking about their audience this way? - Sprague D
It kinda hurts when the broadcaster publicly advises dosent care about his listeners - David Peralta
I think my favorite Gillmor Gang episode was the one where Marc Canter kept showing a big bowl full of marijuana buds on his video screen every chance he could get. That was classic! - Thomas Hawk
"those people who don't like reality"... ok. same to ya. :) - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Steve please do this on a closed call - earl wallace
Steve is just hurt. And I think he's not feeling respected. - Lise
Leo just pointed out my entire current frustration... why the hell is the show not post-published if Steve indeed feels that people -should- be able to Fast forward through it - Robert
"I dont care about the community" implies "I mostly care about the content' - Brad Kligerman
@Dano agree, if Steve doesnt care about the community at all then why put it out? Just talk to your buddies on the phone. - Gary Gannon
Just produce a show where you argue about tech and not about each other. Outside of this incident, it's all very self-indulgent anyway. - bobrudge
Bwana: This is looking for justifications while already having one's side chosen - coldbrew
I can be passionate while avoiding drama. It's an acquired skill. Kinda like laughing without shooting milk through your nose. - Bwana ☠
Interesting to see if there is any brand impact to all of this..Seems they all have the Martha Stewart problem with the name and brand tightly coupled. - Jim Posner
This show is going no where now - Jesse Stay
It looks like the show will be moving to a different 'network'. - Verbal
This has been brewing for a while - Mike Doeff
i think the community can create content,and help and push content. So saying you don't care about the community,is not saying your care more about the content - Dano Hart
Anella: Yes ;) - coldbrew
The problem is Leo can turn off the show - Jack
The show can go on with Leo - Bwana ☠
The thing you all should know about Steve's community comment? He does care about the community. Do you think people who don't care bother with discussions on FriendFeed? All he said was that ultimately HE does what HE feels is important - Karoli
dude bwana,shooting milk thru your nose IS a skill.hehe - Dano Hart
Rename it to The Leo Laporte Gang! Thats what it is! - Chris
Leo you can build up TWiT Sunday and then split it soon into Sat/Sun - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
The show can go on without Leo - Bwana ☠
Jack: Yes, broadcasting live via IP is so difficult these days. It would take millions! - coldbrew
Steve is just too hurt right now. I feel bad for him. But he needs to cool down - Lise
Bwana, yes, but can it go on with AND without Leo? - Jesse Stay
I am Reviled - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Why does Steve do a show if he doesnt care if people watch it or not? - Chris
Jesse - I see what you did there. Wait..No I don't - Bwana ☠
Chris, because he believes the content is important. - Karoli
Steve works for Mike, BTW. - Oldengrey (Jay)
Steve you know more than anyone else the internet mirrors real life. Please understand the chat in the same light. - earl wallace
No one is dependant on anyone else. Steve can organise the show on his own wherever he wants, like he did for a long time. - Robert
Gillmor could take this live on his own with minimal help. Lots of people *sitting* here could do it in an hour or less. - coldbrew
Bwana, I'm confused! - Jesse Stay
If Steve does want complete control then he does need to move it. You can't have complete control when Leo sits at the helm - Lise
We Collegiates are Reviled - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Who would have thought an hour ago that Gillmor would be the one to come out of this the worst - seems to have taken an ego hit and wants everyone to remember it's 'his' show. Pretty pathetic performance. - bobrudge
Leo was liberal with those F bombs : ) - Mike Doeff
collegial is for talk shows, radical is for Gillmor - Brad Kligerman
LOL Mike. Seriously. I really like Arrington a lot more now. I can't believe he stepped up and handled this so awesomely. "F you. F you. F you. Bye" haha - Lise
Yeah - Leo's got it - Gillmor Gang needs to decide what it wants to be when it grows up. What's the overall purpose and premise behind the show? - Jesse Stay
You can't take it with you has never been more true. - Aron Michalski
Steve is coming off a little bit arrogant, though rightfully so in some ways. Honestly, I think that Leo should stay on GG, but take it off of TWiT. If Steve wants control, he should get it. - TeraDyne Azurepaw
oh now steves crackin the jokes.alright! - Dano Hart
@Steve ROFL. Looks like we hit a resolution. - Ryan Merket
Stay: It's that there is no premise and it's some people Gillmor knows and likes talkin shit. - coldbrew
stop trying to classify things, Leo, and go with the flow. It's been kinda working since Gillmor Gang has been here. - Brad Kligerman
Jesse, I agree w/ you (and Leo) that Mike has proven to be a different person that I previously thought he was. Silver lining here might be that these types of 'misunderstandings' are headed off before they boil over in the future. - Chris Heath
Someone just asked me this question: if this is gillmor, why is laporte seeming to host? (1st time on GG) - Karoli
coldbrew, I think with that, Leo's taking risk then. Steve's got to state what the show is for it to make sense on Leo's network. That's nothing against Steve's show - it's just in conflict with the organization of Leo's network. - Jesse Stay
I think we forget that these guys have real lives, real problems, and stress that can leak into this show. - Mike Doeff
932 PM GEORGIA hi is dave glad yall are back on - daveccorey
Karoli, because it's on Leo's network - Lise
It's kind of surreal to hear this thing play out while in my car. Thank you, iPhone app. Can the Pri do that? :-) - Joel R
LOL - Last words out of Mike's mouth, "and I got a Techmeme headline out of it" - Jesse Stay
Can someone please turn this drama into a 30 second video for YouTube :0 - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
okay, real last words out of Mike's mouth, "Go Leo!" - Jesse Stay
I love so much that they brought this back out live to do it. - Lise
Who in here has this recorded? - Jesse Stay
I'm kind of amazed at about how transparent these guys are being. I appreciate that. - Mike Doeff
Whoo! GO JACK! - Robert
No offense Steve, but welcome to the real-time web - Jesse Stay
Welcome to the interwebs Steve - Gary Gannon
Leo, remember that people can scrub back on the BitGravity feed and then screen-capture or record the audio. - Paulius G
Christopher: yeah, I heard about SkyFire on Windows Weekly. Sounds pretty cool. - Joel R
I knew it would be a tame show after that - Bwana ☠
LOL Leo. Awwww @ the loooove - Lise
That was actually pretty interesting, maybe we'll see a This Week in Drama soon. - Antoniu
I learned a lot from this. As I said before I have a newfound respect for both Leo and Mike Arrington. - Jesse Stay
I wanna hug all my gadgets. Yay tech! - Lise
i'm hungry.whos buyin? hehe - Dano Hart
This is TWID! - Joel R
is the bar open yet? - Andrew Johnson
TWiD - nice! - Aaron T. Harvey
After all of that i do have more respect for Mike now, I think alot has been learned today - David Peralta
@leo it always good to hear an opinion that you don't hear agree with. you can't have good without evil. - Jan Zimak
Everyone has a shadow, the trick is learning how to give the shadow recognition privately, so that it doesn't come out publicly like it did today - Stephen Pickering
And 3 hours later we get the Pre review - Jack
Judging by Leo's little presentations, the Pre interface seems pretty slow - Bwana ☠
that would drive me nuts - Bwana ☠
Nice UI - a little 'roundy/pudgy' though. Is it comfortable to hold? - Aaron T. Harvey
Aaron, yeah looks kind of thick - Mike Doeff
Right, it's not as fluid as an iPhone. It's ages better than any Windows mobile or Palm OS phone, but still not too close to the iPhone. However, competition is great. And this hopefully means more interesting features in the future from the iPhone. - Paulius G
Bwana - Just got home and stumbled across this thread. What would we do without Friendfeed?! - Charlie Anzman
Diabolical. Legal maelstrom becomes misdirection play, host catches fecal backlash. - Aron Michalski
Steve/Tina - Hang in there. I'll touch base soon, hopefully we can connect next week - Karoli
Charlie - we'd be all over Google looking for details :) - Bwana ☠
I like that app dock - Mike Doeff
I wonder how the battery life is with background apps running, since the drain on the battery is supposed to be one of the reasons that Apple won't allow background apps on the iPhone. - Antoniu
321 - Despite what Apple may say, it's a memory issue moreso than battery - Bwana ☠
Is anyone going to post the make-up video? - Jim Posner
that phone does look pretty slick - Dano Hart
looks sluggish - Robert
anyone want some koolaid? - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
No it doesn't matter..I noticed it when he first unboxed it - Bwana ☠
It's sluggish all around - Bwana ☠
I love great notification systems, and Palm has one - Bwana ☠
Apple should hire the guy who hacked together Growl for iPhone :) - Bwana ☠
Definitely cool how notifications and things pop up on the screen - Cory Roush
Thanks! My stream is stuttering so I'm getting gaps - Aaron T. Harvey
flawless ustream for me today - Preternat (Ken Cadby)
That charger is ingenius - Jesse Stay
Nintendo kills me with that - Bwana ☠
Jeff Cannata on TWiT?! - Chris
It doesn't make sense...that's why it infuriates me - Bwana ☠
Will it sync with Palm Desktop is the question I have - Bwana ☠
For the die hard Palm'ers - Bwana ☠
Did the Pre show up in iTunes? I heard it does... - Aaron T. Harvey
Nicholas James : Unfortunately I'll only be posting audio :-( - Jack
That'll come - Bwana ☠
People have to update their code to catch the Pre's browser string - Bwana ☠
do a quick test - Bwana ☠
Call goog-411 and surf while you do it :) - Bwana ☠
It's a good time to be a Phone lover - Bwana ☠
It is "good competition" to the iPhone - Jesse Stay
Pres, G1s, and iPhone giving Nokia and RIM some stiff stiff competition - Bwana ☠
Poor Motorola - Bwana ☠
monday it will be 3rd - Byron McCollum
O_O dead pixel blues - Bwana ☠
Storm 2 will be out in a few months...love the competition - Bwana ☠
his thumb covers 4 keys - Bwana ☠
Best keyboard I've ever had was the T-Mobile MDA - Jesse Stay
i could never use that analog keyboard - Byron McCollum
Leo - if you're missing a Brazilian BBQ (we, the enlightened, call it a churrasco), then your priorities are certainly out of order. Get off that ball and in front of a skewer of meat ASAP. Grad yourself a caiparinha, too. You've earned one or four today. - Jason Miller
I couldn't go back to a physical keyboard. - Aaron T. Harvey
That's your "We'll do it live" moment Leo :) - Bwana ☠
For me the apology will long out-live the video. - Colin
LOL Bwana - Lise
Nooooo - Bwana ☠
Dont do it Leo - Andrew Johnson
We could post your apology - Aaron T. Harvey
Mostly you gain publicity, not negativity. - Colin
I wouldn't :) :) - Bwana ☠
Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer >:D - Bwana ☠
do just the tribute and cut after that - Andrew Johnson
Don't put it back on Leo. Only those of us following from the beginning will get it. - Lise
Judge a man not by his friends, but by his enemies! - Colin
we love you, Leo! And now, even Mike. Good job, Mike. - Lise
We love ya Leo! Thanks for your support of us! - Aaron T. Harvey
Go eat some meat Leo - Bwana ☠
You deserve a few choice cuts - Bwana ☠
See you in the morning, Leo. - Lise
Man, one can only dream to have a setup like Leo :) - Bwana ☠
Oh no, so much for the chat rooms slowing down tonight. Maybe I need to make some new macros for tonight :-P - Andrew Johnson
now i want BBQ, thanks for another fun day everyone, tty tomorrow - Andrew Johnson
this type of reality that we saw today is why the future of media on the web is so exciting .. we like real opinions and real emotions ... not the puffed and polished punditry that the mass media (blech) tries to spoon us on a daily basis. Keep doing the show Leo, we can take it, and the content is quality. - Joe Magennis
Don't worry Leo!!! Good on you!!! - Andy
Haha, this is drama for geeks. - Manuel Mas
Wow Leo never seen that side of you Mic really asked for it though, One thing i can say about Leo Laportes reviews and recommendations is they are always what he really believes...... - John Spencer
I'm listening to the later call where Leo says he feels like Arrington baits people and Arrington is not once denying that he does. Arrington also says he never apologizes which also says a lot about him. If you are wrong what is so hard about apologizing? - jccalhoun
I belive we saw true real-time reality TV in it's truest form today. - Allen Blair
Seems to me Friendfeed is the winner in this scenario - chad cicconi
listening to this later call I get the feeling that some of these guys have a difficult time clearly expressing themselves. They are also overly hypersensitive but aren't aware of just how abrasive they themselves are. Get thee to a therapist. - jccalhoun
Chad - Not sure I follow your logic but 1110 comments says a lot about the 'players' and an incredibly wide spectrum of opinions. - Charlie Anzman
Gillmor is now blaming the chatroom for the tone of the show? How is that? - jccalhoun
Gillmore wants to take his ball and go home... Steve give it up and do your show we love you Man. - Rock
Leo I hope that you keep this show. It is a bit different from other shows but the drama mostly is incidental to some really interesting discussions. I think a lot of it is direct styles of discussion between passionate personalities. - Dominic
I'm not a big fan of the drama! I don't care for the show. To much beckering! I don't believe it fits the TWIT network. - MarK
They don't seem to understand Leo's point that you can be aggressive without taking shots at people. - jccalhoun
If Steve wants to take his ball & go home then FINE...Arrington was wrong & Steve is wrong not to acknowledge it...Techcrunch has been hit time & time again for it's "ethics"..Maybe that's why Palm didn't send them a review unit? Why send one to someone who has pre-judged your product? Arrington the Bill O'Reilly of tech? - David J. Garcia from twhirl
Just watched the re-run. Leo, Gillmor Gang is the best show on your network and Dominic nailed the reason why there is drama and today we got the confirmation that you're only human too. - Alberto Saavedra
Just dump the show. I'd rather watch reruns of your other shows that are all superior to what Steve has to offer anyway - Andy
i want to go to techcrunch to see if Arrington has brought it up, but then I'd be giving that bastard pageviews. - Dave Martin
dave: mike posted his side of the 'blow up' in a post titled "ouch" and he posted the youtube video too - it was kind of an apology, and leo accepted and apologized himself for his reaction - leo came back to the studio, got mike, steve, and scoble on and they talked it all out - hopefully everything is all good - it was re-running on the stream, i think that's over tho and the stream is on to the next re-run - Chris Heath
Can I download the show somewhere? - Wo
dave: in the 'second half' of the GG mike admitted that he only apologizes about once a year, and that he was being and asshole - Chris Heath
Downloads available here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack
i think mike and leo are cool now - but steve still seemed pissed that the audience doesn't read his mind or something - it's kind of akin to how steve get's irked by people asking about the podcast for the GG (which hasn't been available since april) - steve moving over to twit widend his audience and he probably feels a bit out of control of his show since the audience (live audience... more... - Chris Heath
as I stated earlier on Twitter I have blocked techcrunch via OpenDNS settings - John Blanton from twhirl
Listening to the continuing discussion of this blow up reminds me of the reaction of the NPR Planet Money blog commenters to Adam Davidson's interview with Elizabeth Warren. Long after the protagonists have calmed down and made peace, the internet seethes with rage. Where's the sense of perspective, friendfeed peeps? - Matt Hall
Matt Hall -- it's only been like 4 hours since it happened. That's hardly "long after" ;-) - jccalhoun
jccalhoun - In the real-time world it is ;) - Matt Hall
If you go by Steve's logic and he doesn't care about the audience, then it doesn't matter if the plug is pulled. Don't think Leo minds banter, but just doesn't want the kind of p2p internal drama trolling you'd see on a World of Warcraft forum per say. Mike was def out of line, he apologized. Steve on the other hand seems like he needs to let "his" show go to Leo. Leo appears... more... - Jonathan Langdale
Here's the NPR Planet Money episode and blog post I mentioned, for those of you who can't get enough of the drama: http://www.npr.org/blogs... - Matt Hall
Most entertaining GG moment ever! - Douglas
I am a huge TWiT content listener, and the primary emotion I feel after all of the shows is typically enthusiasm, optimism, and general good feeling. GG often leaves me frustrated over lack of manners, respect, and behavior issues. Passion over topics cannot disguise the fact that the overriding tone is contrary to the rest of the TWiT shows. I think it does not fit. - Amac
Leo doesn't need to "take over" the Gillmor Gang, he has TWiT among others which I think with the cross-pollination of some elements of the GG (JC for example) and exclusion of others (MA), is almost as good an experience. What amazes me is that Arrington still wonders why he polarises so many people... - Hamish MacEwan
Just woke up from a Nice little Nap Has the GG been recorded somewhere? Really would like to see Todays GG 2.0 - Erle Stride
Thank you Nicholas - Erle Stride
Anyone that Listens to MacBreak or TWiT knows that Leo has said he was going to buy a Pre a hundred times. Receiving a review copy means nothing, that is the industry standard practice. No apologies needed Leo, you were justified to be upset. Keep up the great work and you have my support! - John - becomingamac.com
I think Leo should either pull the show from TWiT or allow someone else (Colleen?) sit in his seat to produce the show. Steve and Leo have very different goals. Leo puts his focus on the quality of the product for the audience. Steve puts his emphasis on running the show and doesn't care as much about quality. Leo spends thousands on equipment and facilities; Steve probably bought his webcam and headset on clearance and hosts the show from a rumpus room. - Matt Matthews
it appears that there is a demand for gg and if leo thinks its in the best interest of his nework to host it, i support that. however i think that it may be something he should consider having someone else host. as his network grows he is going to need to share the helm and this may be a perfect opportunity. personally i would love to see it a little more like the old tech tv lineup.... more... - Tobias Lewsadder
Last week the Gillmor Gang was moved to Friday recordings and Leo did call in from home with Colleen runing the board. That was going to be the new recording arrangement but personal issues meant that the show couldn't be done this Friday and so they did it Saturday. So at least the plan was for Leo not to be appearing on the show from his studio any more. - jccalhoun
As far as I'm concerned the GG has always been an inferior offering which seemed only to serve the egos of those involved, long before it ever was hosted by TWiT Network. I don't think TWiT would be any the less without it. Regardless of the current argument. - Dave Wallace
Wow. Just saw what happened earlier. Good for Leo. I'm quite confident that Leo is not proud of his behavior, but Arrington has been an insufferable prick for quite some time, and utterly had this coming. That it came from Leo speaks volumes, and should have Arrington re-thinking his own conduct. - Phil Essing
Nicholas James: Thanks for the update, but were these pro-forma apologies? Leo's reaction to Arrington's characteristic button-pushing was about as genuine as they come. I would expect Leo to apologise for his behavior, but not for putting Arrington in his rightful place. - Phil Essing
I have to add I really enjoy the GG when Leo is NOT in Studio Leo should step back and be a guest out of the studio - Erle Stride
This has to be the biggest FF comment list I've ever seen. I'm with Leo! - Jim Graham
Just listening to part 2. Scoble just called in... Michael and Leo still making up. Steve's still waiting to weigh in. I think the fundamental mismatch between Steve and Leo's approaches to dead air is irreconcilable, and today sort of brought that to the forefront. - Ken Sheppardson
Not just dead air, I guess. Hm. - Ken Sheppardson
We love you Leo! - Imran Idris
Not sure why people are calling for the GG to be removed from the Twit Network. It's an odd fit but a good one nonetheless. Whatever happens I am glad that apologies have been exchanged and we can draw the line on this drama. - Jamie
Been thinking about all of this since it happened, and particularly about the impression that people took away from Steve's comment about community. Unfortunately, people listened to the first part without putting it into the larger context of the entire statement. When looked at in the context of the entire statement, it is completely consistent with how Steve Gillmor rolls. It is an... more... - Karoli
+1 Karoli - Brad Kligerman
arrington shut down the comments on his post "ouch" at techcrunch dot com. he was getting ridiculously rude comments. isnt that why everyone was mad at him, for being rude? - Tobias Lewsadder
Tobias: Actually, they were mad at him for questioning Leo's integrity. That's a little different from being rude. I suppose they didn't listen to Part II of today's Gillmor Gang, where Leo and Mike made amends, and Mike admitted he was a couple of steps ahead in the conversation, forming a rant about Palm. It was an astonishing moment for me to hear him admit he was 100% wrong. Given that he did, rude comments seem a bit out of line. I'd have shut them down too. - Karoli
1164 comments. woah - Tyler Gillies
Tyler - I know right. This thread has two winners: 1. Palm 2. FriendFeed - Bwana ☠ from IM
a truly bad day with an incredibly awful end. Good night. - Tina Chase Gillmor
I can't believe there is already a Keyboard Cat on this, lol. - Jamie
just stating the obvious: as everybody knows gilmor gang is pretty much a bunch of old men cursing, declaring their opinions, & highlighting time and again that ugly kindergarten fights can break out regardless of age, education or status. it fosters dirty tricks and underhanded-ness. at times it's trying to have an edge with uninteresting cheap shots. the people aspect detracts from... more... - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
http://tiny.cc/0diXG Maybe this is why Palm didn't send Mike a Palm Pre to review???? "We’ve never broken an embargo at TechCrunch. Not once. Today that ends. From now our new policy is to break every embargo. We’ll happily agree to whatever you ask of us, and then we’ll just do whatever we feel like right after that. We may break an embargo by one minute or three days. We’ll choose at random." - Andy
@vstromdek but the record (now at 1173 posts with this one) is remarkable not only for the quantity of posts but also for its qualities> the diversity of points of view and the spontaneous manner that 2 communities (GG & TWiT) converged + deconverged around a strange and exceptional event. I agree @bwana, a victory for Friendfeed and real-time webs. - Brad Kligerman
WOW!!! Leo said a bad word. - Joe Demartino
...but I truly believe Leo is underestimating the essential force of Gillmor Gang: it is NOT a question of 'drama,' rather a question of the creative process engaged through critical confrontation, whose goal is the emergence of raw IDEAS. 'Idea' does not always = 'content.' The entropic spin-off of this process can perhaps be 'dramatic,' but drama is neither the intention, the device nor the content. - Brad Kligerman
That was amazing. Don't press the buttons of the man pressing the buttons, huh? I think some animosity was brewing from Leo over the Last.fm RIAA issue that TechCrunch was on to. I like a lot of TWiT shows: the enthusiasm, humor and inquisitiveness draw me in. Now more than before, I appreciate the transparency of disclosures (review unit vs. purchase) that have always been there, but not as glaringly emphasized. - Kevykev
The GG is the only show I don't watch on TWiT. It won't be missed, Leo. Don't waste your time with it anymore and focus your time on the other great content you create. That guy is a jerk and you don't need to feel bad or regret what you did. - MIQAL
Questioning Leo's integrity was uncalled for. I don't know Leo other than listening to his netcasts since twit started and despite our limited digital one-way interaction I trust his judgment and wait to hear what he says about a gadget before I seriously considering purchasing. Leo's a seasoned enough professional that he's probably over the whole thing by now. Leo - From 9,000 miles and 10 times zones away - keep up the great work! - Anant Gairola
Had a feeling it would be busy here................. - Kevin J Hatton
Karoli-I heard Steve's comment re: community as he will not pander to any "community." If a community forms around his work great and if it doesn't that is ok too, is my take away from his comment. I am sure Leo having the power to shut down the show was a turning point as well, where it leads will be interesting to see. - Jim Posner
karoli- i consider questioning someones integrity to be rude and insulting. arrington came off as a jerk. i did listen to that second gg and was rather impressed by how open both were and actually was a bit saddened by arringtons current emotional status. steves comments on how it was "his" show were a bit annoying but he is right. it would be interesting to see how well the show did... more... - Tobias Lewsadder
This gets a *facepalm* award for obvious reasons... see http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa... - Richard Walker
Jim: The community that forms around editorial integrity is a far better one than the opposite. The issue of control, though...that's huge. Tobias: I agree that death threats are always out of line. And my dislike for Arrington and feelings that he has no compunction about stomping on people and then playing the victim when they push back do not mean that I support in any way, shape or... more... - Karoli
wasn't a fan of Steve Gillmor and didn't care for show didn't watch after second one - Bob
keyboard cat #2 on digg.com http://digg.com/gadgets... I dont know if this makes me love the internet more or hate it. - Thomas McGivern
Loren Feldman's video response is good. - Stephen M. Otto
The second part of the show (post blow-up -- with Leo, Michael, Steve, and Scoble) is replaying right now on http://live.twit.tv. - Ken Sheppardson
Seems a lot of brouhaha about a couple friends having a spat. Not sure doing this in the public-stream is adding much value. It's a bit like watching Oprha Winfrey and Barbara Walters having a spat on their show. Maybe it's entertainment? - Michael Metz
Listening to the replay of the post-blow up broadcast. I totally understand why Leo blew up. I recently had a similar blow up where an aspect of integrity was questioned by someone close to me, and it hit a nerve. On the other hand, I think the purpose of GG is to probe deeply, and sometimes prosecutorially. If Leo doesn't want that style on his network, he should set GG free. - Stephen M. Otto
Wow. I always miss the good stuff. Well not "good" but you know what I mean. - Rustic Thoughts
Wow the Pre is a might sexier than my bulky android with that ridiculous "chin" - Rustic Thoughts
I love the intro music.... - Rustic Thoughts
hey from georgia STILL WITH LEO the twits vedios out of order again stick kams working ok - daveccorey
I'm jumping in--I wasn't at Woodstock, but I'm part of this historic conversation. And I'm with Leo. Anyone who has followed Leo for any length of time knows Leo's ethics. Shame on you Mike Arrington. You embarrassed yourself. And you revealed your true self. - Hamilton Wallace
Hmm. . .wonder how many more people will know about the Pre as a result of Arrington's dickishness? Could this be something new: the Arrington bump? - Hamilton Wallace
Would love to see Arrington on Cranky Geeks. Great job, Leo!!! - Jim Corkrum
We can haz FF entry for TWiT? - Ken Sheppardson
thanks to Denise we will in a second ken - Chris Heath
I love Friendfeed! I don't find it difficult, not even a little bit. - MarK
I wish the newest post in the thread was at the top. On mobile, it's a HUGE pain to scroll through all of the messages to the bottom. - Karoli
Leo, you did the right thing. Mike A. is an A-hole. - Samuel Cohen
is that my denise!!? - jeneane sessum
(still watching) - jeneane sessum
Matthew: Everybody was pretty much already on a side. This just gave them a reason to cheer for their team and against the other guy. - Ken Sheppardson
In case anyone hasn't heard it, the 2nd part of the show is here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack
I can empathize with Leo. I've flown off the handle in similar situations. Arrington did have an intriguing point, but it seems like he hijacked the conversation and got burned trying to be sensational. If he had waited for a break in the conversation around whether the Pre was actually any good and brought up his point as a topic of discussion, things would have gone much better. I think I'll steer clear of GG. - Sam Ellis
Dude, MA is a total Richard. I am suprised you put up with it as long as you have. Everyone has limits man, I hope you don't feel guilty for it. - Adam Deem
I'd love to filter out comments that are mostly "Person X is a(n) [adjective Y] noun Z." They are EXTREMELY tiresome to wade through. If you have built a case on an individual write it up and point to it. Then you can enjoy moderating idiotic comments to your own post. That said, what I read here before my eyes glazed over isn't so bad on the whole. - Richard Walker
Christian Bale vs Leo Laporte vs Mike Arrington REMIX (with added calacanis dancing): http://tinyurl.com/l2vmyf - Linton Davies
ZGood Job Leo It your network and everyone need to keep that in mind - Richard Thomson
My rather late 2 cents on the Arrington/LaPorte exchange are here: http://bit.ly/aKZUc But Leo, you raise a MORE IMPORTANT POINT! The GG is not a good fit for your network. A few weeks you all laughed when my comment calling Gilmore "mean" bubbled up on the Skype-a-sarous. There is a reason that his show results in flame outs. Its the rather mean/unkind manner of the host. Guests take... more... - Dale Dietrich
Dale: I've been listening to some back issues of the GG and News Gang since this incident. I'm seeing that SG is very good at what he does, though he does it in a prickly and abrasive way. Sometimes he can be abrupt, but he is well informed and opinionated. It would be good for Leo to keep the GG in the TWiT stable - it broadens his portfolio, it keeps the cutting edge and insightful... more... - Jason Miller
Jason Miller: Well said. Steve is the best at what he does. It does take effort to get in the groove, but it's worth every second. - Karoli
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