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Deborah Fitchett › Comments
My friend/colleague in the religion department just wondered aloud, "Is assessment gendered female?"
The context being a discussion of a department where a minority of male professors has tried to subvert/torpedo the assessment process.
- Steele Lawman
WTF? no.
- DJF
from Android
Huh, interesting. Not sure I agree, but that made me think of a post on how MOOCs play into gender roles re: superstar prof status (read: male authority) versus the "care work" that plays so much more of a role in teaching, but rarely gets rewarded. So, assessment as a form of programmatic care work? http://artssquared.wordpress.com/2012...
- Amandadon't
Yes, Amanda. I didn't read your link yet, but you are on the wavelength that my colleague was. DJF, I don't understand your objection/dismissal?
- Steele Lawman
Can I posit that *good* assessment (thoughtful, holistic, nuanced, attentive to context) is gendered female while *bad* assessment (data for data's sake, punitive, one-size-fits-all) is gendered male without sounding like a complete ass? (Answer: probably not.)
- Catherine Pellegrino
Qual and quant work were definitely gendered in my polisci experience; I dont see why assessment couldnt be so
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
Catherine, you ass.
- Steele Lawman
I'm very uncomfortable with gendering assessment, and with reductionist gendering of ideas in general. It would take me more words than I have, and a lot of verbal fumbling and personal digressions, to attempt to explain why. but I think it's a bad way to go.
- Marianne
Marianne, I agree. If I understood it correctly, our colleague was wondering, "are these men I am hearing about who are disparaging and hostile toward assessment, are they doing that because they perceive it as 'women's work' and not manly and macho" in the way that Amandadon't suggests that being the star prof. is perceived. So it's not that I think "is assessment gendered female" is a...
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- Steele Lawman
Ah! Well, in that case, I'd say that the pushback I'm hearing on my campus about assessment has very little to do with the women's work of assessment being un-manly and not-macho, and more to do with "damn the man" and "how dare they" and "but I've been doing this for <mumble> years" instead.
- Catherine Pellegrino
The distinction between "does society currently gender assessment" and "should we gender assessment" is important. I read the question as the first; it sounds like others are reading it as the second?
- Deborah Fitchett
I definitely read it as the first, "does society currently gender assessment?", with an unspoken "if so, once we recognize it perhaps we might try to stop?"
- Amandadon't
Yeah, Deborah and Amanda are reading it the way I read it originally from my colleague.
- Steele Lawman
When I read that line I though "yeah, the people who actually do the work where I am are disproportionately female."
- barbara fister
By the way? This is utterly fascinating.
- barbara fister
I am marking student assessments that I designed right now. I remarked a couple of hours ago to a male friend about how I need to stop trying to support their self-concept and help them to be good, well-rounded human beings who will help society and just count stuff and mark quicker (was in context of them producing multimedia piece where they have to speak so wanting to be so careful to be supportive with tactful, but clear feedback, after what is a really confronting activity for many people)...
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
That sounds kind of a stereotypically womanly work approach to me.
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
I wonder if my first reaction (why would anyone want to perpetuate the stereotypical (masculine or feminine) norms by "gendering" a behavior) which is consonant with my reaction just now (I'll just have to internally reject the gendering of behaviors so I don't get aggravated) is a typical male/masculine response?
- awd
Aaron... my head is spinning and I am all a'circle trying to follow that. Do you feel dizzy too ?
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
If I follow, Aaron, you're wondering if it's a typical male response to say "I don't know why anyone would want to perpetuate stereotypes on either side, so I internally reject such behavior." I would disagree with your premise: I don't think anyone *wants* to perpetuate stereotypes, I think we all do it unwittingly, until it's pointed out. Which is possibly ignoring your actual question :)
- Amandadon't
Yes, Amanda, that gets toward the heart of the question... the next step, for me, is the desire to break the linkages between a given behavior and gender -- I suppose I'm more interested in the behavior as related to a (positive or negative) perception of that behavior (to either modify or improve both the perception and the behavior) than I am in trying to apply a gender stereotype...
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- awd
Maybe my POV is clear by now, but my reaction to "Is 'assessment' gendered as female?" was "Yah, kinda. And that's fucked up."
- Steele Lawman
John Dupuis liked this
We now have Films on Demand, VAST, and Media Education Foundation streaming video collections. We also have big ebook collections from Project MUSE & EBL. Up until we just got VAST a couple weeks ago, all of the items in each of these collections were in the catalog. There is discussion about not putting VAST in because it is so huge and because we don't have a way to do batch deletions of records in the catalog (which is a real functionality problem, for sure).
- maʀtha
I want there to be a place where everything is listed (at least at the top item level, not the article level). I want there to be a place where people can serendipitously discover things they didn't know they wanted. I've already learned that most institutions don't use Summon as that place (although I still don't really grok this, but I need to educate myself more).
- maʀtha
Am I just a starry-eyed, unicorn-chasing, quixotic idealist, leaving glitter in my wake? Is collocation too much to ask?
- maʀtha
Am I babbling incoherently?
- maʀtha
what do your institutions do?
- maʀtha
All of ours get added but we can do batch deletions
- Christina Pikas
from iPhone
If we can get a batch file with all the MARC records, we add them all. OTOH like Christina, we can do batch deletes. OTGH we do use Summon as our default search/discovery place. OT4H, some academics are reportedly very annoyed that we've buried our catalogue. OT5H, in this particular case I suspect that's a "You moved our cheese!" problem and that the things they say they desperately want the catalogue for are actually things that Summon is better for.
- Deborah Fitchett
What is the thing academics want to use the catalogue for that is actually things that Summon is better for than the catalogue? For us, the feedback I gotten generally they are right, the catalogue is better, either known item search (known item or even by author) or just browsing for books/dvd/microflims where Summon just makes it harder to find what they need.
- aarontay
I'm doing a list of Quick Reads for adult summer reading. Please name your favorite books that are either 1) UNDER 200 pages or 2) have VERY SHORT chapters. Fiction and nonfiction are fine.
Greg GuitarBuster, LB: #TeamMonique, Guy and 3 other people liked this
Girl With a Pearl Earring may skate in just over 200 pages, but I recall blasting through it much faster than most novels when I read it.
- Catherine Pellegrino
All my friends are superheroes by Andrew Kaufman; The chairs are where the people go by Sheila Heti; The Clock of the Long Now by Steward Brand are three that come to mind...
- copystar
Well, this will spoil the surprise I had for you, because I'm mailing it as soon as I get my ass down to the post office (and I am going to imperiously and ineffectually demand you not read it until you get that copy), but I'm utterly in love with Maggie Nelson's Bluets (http://www.wavepoetry.com/collect...). It's 112 pages long and the chapters are paragraphs. (It's not *actually* poetry either, although it is sometimes poetry-like - it's fiction and/or memoir.)
- Marianne
Blockade Billy, by Stephen King.
- Julian
84, Charing Cross Road by Helene Hanff (it's less than 100)
- Katy S
Animal Farm
- Hedgehog
The Illustrated Man by Ray Bradbury (technically a collection of connected short stories, if that's okay). Also, I'd love to see your list when you're done. :)
- Katy S
The Last Lecture by Randy Pausch
- Kathy
Broetry by Brian McGackin
- Katie
The Bride Stripped Bare by Nikki Gemmell (very short chapters)
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
Someone at Fiction-L has been collecting these, too, for a quick turn-around book club. http://www3.mgpl.org/maillis...
- barbara fister
Ordinary Love and Good Will, Smiley
- maʀtha
Annie John, Kincaid
- maʀtha
I think most Jane Austen novels are a little over 200 pages, and I think they also have fairly short chapters. Pride & Prejudice comes in at about 256, and has 61 chapters. My other favorite Jane Austen novel is Persuasion.
- Laura H.
ooh, a lot of kincaid is short. My Brother is my favorite (nonfiction) and it's 208 pp... it read very quickly.
- Marianne
Second on 84 Charing Cross Road! I also adore Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons, which skates in at 234 pgs. Paletas by Fany Gerson, Finnish Lessons: What Can the World Learn from Educational Change in Finland? Classic short stories like the Yellow Wallpaper, ....I do not read many book under 200 pages. This is hard!
- MontglaneChess
House on Mango Street, Cisneros
- maʀtha
also a lot of Diana Athill is very short. Somewhere Towards the End is seriously wonderful (and again, 208 pages; what's with me and 208 page books?).
- Marianne
I was surprised to see that The Martian Chronicles was as long as 250 pages. A college acquaintance of mine wrote a wonderful short book called Treasure Island!!! http://www.amazon.com/Treasur...
- Steele Lawman
Room with a View, Forster
- maʀtha
Could alo include some flash fiction collections
- maʀtha
Various Steinbeck
- maʀtha
To the lighthouse, Woolf
- maʀtha
Night
- maʀtha
Is the goal to come up with books that are fun and not intimidating?
- Steele Lawman
I just read Tale of the Unknown Island by Saramago on Sunday, VERY short
- maʀtha
In honor of DJF, Three Men in a Boat
- maʀtha
P. G. Wodehouse
- maʀtha
Teaching a stone to Talk, Dillard
- maʀtha
Stewart O'Nan's The Odds (179 pp). Iain Pears' The Portrait (224 pp but it's effectively double-spaced).
- Marianne
All The Days & Nights - William Maxwell; Kindred - Octavia Butler; The Writing Life - Annie Dillard; On Chesil Beach - Ian McEwan
- MoTO #TeamMonique
Pines- Blake Crouch (before M. Night Shameyalan ruins it)
- Guy
The Reluctant Fundamentalist by Mohsin Hamed
- Heleninstitches
Carlos Ruiz Zafon's shorter books
- Heleninstitches
Paul Torday's might come in under 200 pages. Always intriguing... tho perhaps a bit British!
- Heleninstitches
Cowboys Are My Weakness by Pam Houston, just under 200p, flies by
- Julie Kane
@Steele: Yeah, I've refrained from listing a bunch of titles because they might be less accessible: The Bluest Eye, Henry James short novels, Faith & the Good Thing, and the book I'm reading now, Beasts of No Nation (Iweala), which is definitely not light summer reading and is stunningly good.
- maʀtha
On Bullshit, Frankfurt. Less than 100 pages, but written by a real philosopher.
- Steele Lawman
The Little Prince.
- Deborah Fitchett
Where'd you go, Bernadette?
- Elizabeth Brown
Any of Tove Jansson's non-Moomin stuff. Novels are short, others are short story collections.
- Pete #TeamMonique
Just read Buddha in the Attic. Not my favourite per se, but it's very good, quick, and unusual.
- Megan loves summer
Thank you all! The goal is to have a variety of short books and/or quick to read books. Some will be fun and some will be more intimidating, but I figure an intimidating 180 page book is much less intimidating than, say, an intimidating 680 page book.
- laura x
we would like to see the finished list, please :)
- maʀtha
So I've finally gotten around to trying out Google Reader alternatives, and I'm digging The Old Reader pretty well but it doesn't look like I can combine feeds to make a new feed to export. I don't think Feedly does that either. Do any other readers do this one very nice thing?
Kelli H., awd, RudĩϐЯaЯïan and 3 other people liked this
Worth it to use Yahoo Pipes for this, or no.
- Meg V. Meg
Yahoo pipes still exists???
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
will they take it away? i always suck at yahoo pipes. :(
- kendrak
This is the only thing I ever figured out how to do with it.
- Meg V. Meg
Here's a video I made showing how to use Yahoo! Pipes to combine feeds. http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Stephen le Francoeur
Thanks Stephen! (It was seriously easy peasy in GReader. Do not want to remake my monster feeds, alas...)
- kendrak
OMG YOU GUYS COMMAFEED DOES IT i think. http://www.commafeed.com/
- kendrak
Can't see a way to do it with newsblur
- Blake
I hope Yahoo Pipes doesn't go away. It's the only way I could scrape up an RSS feed for our library news; do not ask about our Content "Management" System.
- Deborah Fitchett
Wow...I think I love commafeed
- Hedgehog
OMG, commafeed just imported all my feeds in about a minute and kept them in their beautiful beautiful folders. And my keyboard shortcuts work as expected. Refresh rate is a tiny bit slow but really not terrible. I'm so in love, I'm tempted to donate on the spot. (I'll give it a week first though, I think.)
- Deborah Fitchett
Sigh. Signed up, but I'd not thought about the fact that I've been using Feedly for a while now...so it's gone nuts trying to import and refresh all (more than 9,000) posts since the last time I used Greader. I just disconnected it. My own damn fault. Maybe a good alternative. (Never got to where I could see any controls, however: just odd random symbols on buttons.)
- Walt Crawford
can you share a single blog post entry via email in commafeed? you can't do that in old reader and it makes me sad.
- Marie
Yeah, kinda, it's not as nice and easy as it is in Reader, but there's an email thingy that does a popup.
- Blake
A visual acuity test (or something like it) - http://walt.lishost.org/2013...
It will be interesting to see whether I get any comments on this. I'm not holding my breath. (But then, few posts get any comments anyway, and this one's a little abstruse.)
- Walt Crawford
I commented, mostly so you could just tell us what the trick answer is. Please?
- Stephen le Francoeur
There is no trick answer. I'm guessing one or two women with very high quality displays might be discerning enough to find the answer. ("Women" because they frequently have superior color acuity.) Or maybe this one's just hopeless.
- Walt Crawford
When I first looked at it yesterday, I could have sworn I saw a light blue frame around the image.
- Stephen le Francoeur
I see a light blue square on my computer. I didn't see anything on my phone.
- laura x
Oh wait. Now I see pink and yellow, too. And the pink sometimes looks lavender, depending on the light and the angle I'm looking at it from.
- laura x
DO I PASS? DO I WIN SOMETHING?
- laura x
I got nothin', even with my new cyborg eyes.
- Jenica
Can't see a thing other than white.
- Kirsten
Laura, what's in your drink?
- Stephen le Francoeur
These eyes are useless, I demand a refund.
- Meg V. Meg
No prize. A light blue frame around the image is a display problem. And it turns out I screwed up (or JPEG compression screwed up) the image--there are only four colors where there should be seven. I've just posted a new one with ten colors (four of which I can see if I really try hard), but this one isn't a guessing game.
- Walt Crawford
I assume it's cheating if you tilt your laptop screen? How much of this is dependent on display, or do you know.
- Meg V. Meg
^ this. If I tilt my monitor, I can see four.
- Jennifer Dittrich
There's no such thing as cheating (it's not a contest!), and I suspect a lot is dependent on display--a display in something like THX mode might do better.
- Walt Crawford
I see only white; I'll forward it this evening to a (female) friend who's a tetrachromat.
- Deborah Fitchett
I see pink and blue, if I tilt the screen way way down.
- Joe Boone
I see all of them, if I adjust my display so that I can see all of them.
- Meg V. Meg
Yep. Display adjustment has a lot to do with it (esp. the second, ten-color, version, which has bigger changes than the first one anyway).
- Walt Crawford
With the Assessment Committee, reading departmental assessment reports. And, like, assessing them. Who assesses the assessors' assessors?
MoTO #TeamMonique, Catherine Pellegrino, Sir Shuping is just sir and Kirsten liked this
As Catherine likes to say, it's turtles all the way down.
- Steele Lawman
The Oversight Committee, I assume.
- Meg V. Meg
C came back from some AAC&U thing all in a tizzy because one of the regional accreditors (Western States) has a thing where your college has to assess its assessment plan. I think that rates an omgwtfbbq, wouldn't you say?
- Catherine Pellegrino
I believe the Committee on Committees appoints someone from the Department of Redundancy Department to oversee such assessments.
- laura x
Ah, is that the new name for the Ministry of General Interference? I thought they outsourced it to Pearson.
- barbara fister
*snort*
- maʀtha
You know, I gotta admit, I think assessing the assessment plan is the right number of turtles, at least here. At our college, it's very difficult to get ONE plan for anything. What we have is more of a call from the dean's office to the individual academic departments to assess student learning as she is done in their own departments--setting goals, learning outcomes, coming up with...
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- Steele Lawman
My brain refuses to even read this thread.
- Deborah Fitchett
We just went through our accreditation visit. I chaired the assessment of assessment committee last time around and we squeaked by. This time, they were less zealous about the "we're going to assess whether you have a sufficiently developed culture of assessment" thing.
- barbara fister
Ah, see, we *didn't* squeak by last time.
- Steele Lawman
anyone done an external assessment of ILL before, like how your patrons feel about it? I'm looking for some examples of questions to ask, ways to conduct the assessment, etc.
*afternoon bump*
- Sir Shuping is just sir
What do you hope to learn? Are there specific things that are possible to change or new services you need feedback on, or what?
- Rachel Walden
I'm hoping to find out what we need to do to improve services and how we communicate with our patrons. we haven't done any type of feedback in over 15 years, so its time I think. I'm thinking that might lead to ideas of new services that we can/need to offer
- Sir Shuping is just sir
Hmm, bumping for more ideas on how to go about it, if folks have suggestions for Sir.
- Rachel Walden
I haven't done such a thing. But I'd be trying to find out which usergroups had heard about it, what they understand its purpose to be; if you charge then is that a barrier to them; what delivery method(s) do they want; are there issues of timeliness? format? image quality? others?
- Deborah Fitchett
thanks Deborah, that helps! anyone else have suggestions?
- Sir Shuping is just sir
You've probably already done this, but there's always LISTA/Library Literature/Emerald. Looks like there are at least a couple of articles about people who've run them. Ex: "Interlibrary Loan Satisfaction Survey at the University of Evansville." If they haven't included actual questions, you could always email the author.
- Jaclyn aka spamgirl
I haven't looked at Emerald yet (I always forget about them) but I'll take a look thanks!
- Sir Shuping is just sir
EarlyWord: The Publisher | Librarian Connection » Blog Archive TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE...VERY BAD...Movie » EarlyWord: The Publisher | Librarian Connection - http://www.earlyword.com/2013...
LB: #TeamMonique, Hieronymous Boosh, Hookuh Tinypants and Soup in a TARDIS liked this
"Disney’s live-action movie based on Judith Viorst’s 1972 hit children’s Alexander And The Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day (Atheneum) is making baby steps closer to the screen. Lisa Cholodenko (The Kids Are All Right) is directing, Steve Carrell is set to star as Alexander’s father, and The Hollywood Reporter writes that Jennifer Garner is in talks to join the cast as the mother."
- laura x
from Bookmarklet
Just, no.
- laura x
No.
- Catherine Pellegrino
I mean, there's no way they're going to have Jennifer Garner wearing a schlumpy ponytail on screen right?
- laura x
So, I've only seen Laurel Canyon, but Cholodenko is possibly an interesting choice?
- Amandadon't
But....the dad doesn't actually DO anything in the book!
- Catherine Pellegrino
Love. That. Book. LOVE IT.
- Soup in a TARDIS
I cherish the crap out of this book. I'm not sure I'm OK with a film on it. There is a children's theatre stage musical version of it that is fantastic but I think that's about as whimsical as I'm willing to get.
- Hookuh Tinypants
I guess I feel about this the same way I feel about the live-action Grinch movie from a few years back: it's an abomination, but as long as I don't have to go see it or take my kid to it, I don't much care.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Well, yes. That's about how I feel. But then I feel that way about SO MANY THINGS.
- laura x
(I quite liked the Grinch movie. But a) I never particularly cherished the book, and b) I had to watch the movie umpteen times to teach it to several ESOL classes, which is a situation where you just have to like the thing anyway out of pure self-defence.)
- Deborah Fitchett
(This said: Anyone but Jim Carrey.)
- Deborah Fitchett
or Mike Myers.
- Hieronymous Boosh
I'm setting up a summer project and it suddenly occurred to me - maybe someone already did this. I want to compile lists of big-name journals in disciplines we teach and what the OA policy is for each (preprint, postprint, PDF, noway nowhow, unknown). Has anyone already compiled this?
marlene, suelibrarian, Joe Boone and 2 other people liked this
I got this idea from a presenter at the Michigan Library Association academic libraries conference. Helps show faculty that yes, you can. Except when you can't.
- barbara fister
I did a short list of (gold) OA vs subscription journals for Chemistry once. I think I grabbed the top x by impact factor from SciMago, then looked each one up in DOAJ - was basically to show that there are a bunch of high impact OA places to publish in. The obvious flaw to the approach was that it wasn't very balanced in terms of subdisciplines. Plus it was manual so doing it for lots of disciplines would be a nuisance.
- Deborah Fitchett
I may have students work on this over the summer. If it's not already out there, I'd be happy to share it when it's compiled.
- barbara fister
You could use SHERPA/RoMEO for the OA info.
- Jaclyn aka spamgirl
This would be amazing.
- Meg V. Meg
I suspect you could repurpose the Google Scripts used to automate the Sherpa ROMEO queries described here http://journal.code4lib.org/article... if you started out with a spreadsheet listing ISSNs.
- Heather
One for LIS would have made the task of selecting a home for the article I just submitted SO MUCH EASIER.
- Catherine Pellegrino
EBSCO and Ex Libris slapfight. Pass the popcorn. http://t.co/wdZFuT5Gfb
Sarah, Galadriel C., Libraryman and 7 other people liked this
Like Terrell Owens, I have my popcorn ready.
- Julian
*munch munch munch* (We're in the middle of this: we're an Ex Libris shop, looking to activate Primo Central soon, and the bulk of our database content comes from EBSCO.)
- Catherine Pellegrino
Highly entertaining. But, evidence of exactly why we need to remember and act like we are in the midst of a bunch of business deals, not altruistic nonprofits (even if that is our role - which may also be debatable).
- Lisa Hinchliffe
Yes. One of the things I like best about this is Orbis Cascade Alliance's tone.
- Catherine Pellegrino
If Ex Libris just got the metadata from the publishers in EBSCO's databases directly, then SFX would sort it out, since EBSCO metadata is in SFX. But it'd be nice if EBSCO would play ball a little more.
- Zamms
Now entering The Octagon...
- Marie
What language is that signature from Matti in?
- Joe Boone
Hebrew. Ex Libris is based out of Israel.
- Catherine Pellegrino
I'm not allowed to talk about why we didn't implement Primo at MfPOW a few years back.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
Stephanie, did you sign a non-disclosure document about it?
- copystar
The Orbis Cascade Board of Directors are my new favorite people.
- Jenica
Now that makes sense (concerning the sig.)
- Joe Boone
this rocks.
- jambina
In related news, does anyone know if ebrary content is indexed by EDS?
- Meg V. Meg
not any more. (I don't know)
- DJF
Could someone explain this to me like I'm five, please?
- Andy
EBSCO owns content. Ex Libris would like to include that content in its Primo discovery layer, so that users at libraries who subscribe to the EBSCO products can find it using the library's single search box. EBSCO says, "No. If you want to access the EBSCO metadata, you need to subscribe to OUR discovery layer."
- DJF
Ebsco, like Proquest, is in the position of providing both content and a discovery tool. They are taking the lead in ensuring that their content is best/only accessed via THEIR discovery tool. As a result, Ex Libris's discovery tool can't effectively access EBSCO content. And all commercial entities in the game are failing to play nicely with each other.
- Jenica
(Two of us assessed it about the same at the same time, so you know we must be right. AND AWESOME.)
- Jenica
I support Orbis Cascade's position that if EBSCO and Ex Libris won't play together, then neither of them gets any money. Of course, in this particular case, that's not really fair to Ex Libris, who has no control over what EBSCO lets them see.
- DJF
I'm in love with the fact that a library organization is standing up and, in public, plainly asserting its right as a paying customer to demand better of the industry. Fuck. Yes.
- Jenica
Gotcha. Thanks!
- Andy
Also: discovery layers are serious business.
- Andy
I think EBSCO's fucking this up. They need to build a wall between the discovery business and the content business, and fast. Because if the content business is not indexed in a neutral way, then people using Primo or Summon will not find the EBSCO content. If people don't find the content, it doesn't get used. And that's how databases get cancelled.
- DJF
O_o
- Hedgehog
The timing of this memo is odd as we learned a few weeks ago that EBSCO has agreed to re-do the API. I'm more upset with ProQuest They won't even offer us an API to use with Primo.
- Jen
One comment I've heard regarding this situation is that their library holdings are only a small part of EBSCO's portfolio. Of course you would think Proquest, who has a higher percentage of library content, would care more.
- Elizabeth Brown
It's a good thing I wasn't eating popcorn when I got to "and use sub-standard API" at the bottom of page 2, or it'd be all over my keyboard now. It's like when you're trying *really really hard* to be the unbiased voice of reason in a debate but then a "plus your product sucks!" just slips out there.
- Deborah Fitchett
It would have been handy to have all of pop into view last month when we had Serials Solutions, EBSCO, and ExLibris deliver back to back one-hour discovery layer pitches to our consortium. It was my first full-on vendor experience post MLIS and I was alternately amused and appalled by the EBSCO hard core FUD.
- Heather
Heather, FUD is EBSCO's primary product line. We've all seen that in action.
- DJF
I used to work in a comms unit that supported sales guys and anytime the FUD was rolled out it was a clear sign of a product line in trouble and/or sales reps that didn't understand or respect their audience. Sales rep tactics appear to be a transferrable skill.
- Heather
"there is an inherent conflict of interest when content providers attempt to control a library’s choice of discovery." But since their interest is to make money, as much as possible, and control as many markets as they can, where's the conflict? I'm glad there's pushback, but why would we NOT expect a company to vertically integrate and resist sharing? In some ways its more a conflict of public interest for libraries to rely on these bozos.
- barbara fister
I'm just left saying "This is why you can't have nice discovery tools."
- Zamms
Must say I first read Ebsco's response and it was a very good attempt to cloud Pmatters, I was almost convinced..., shows how much I know about discovery :P Anyway I never quite got why it's always about ebscohost , Proquest does the same. Or is it because their databases have metadata that can be obtained in other ways?
- aarontay
Yes, Barbara, yes. If you're a librarian, Ebsco's position looks ethically sketchy. If you're a business analyst, they appear to have a sound strategy. Ex Libris's positioning of themselves as The Good Guys Fighting The Good Fight for libraries pisses me off, because i don't believe for a second that, if they "win" and Ebsco opens up their data, Ex Libris won't turn around and try to...
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- Jenica
Aaron, what is the link to the EBSCO response?
- Joe Boone
All of them here: http://www.orbiscascade.org/index...
- Jaclyn aka spamgirl
how did ProQuest / Serials Solutions / Summon get around this?
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
They go to the journal publishers and get the metadata. It's not 100% of say CINAHL, but maybe 90%+ but of course it's very "thin metadata" (ebsco's term), sometimes not even abstract or subject headings and usually no full text. It can make quite a difference sometimes.
- aarontay
Thanks Jackyn.
- Joe Boone
A message went around at my Primo-using library this morning saying that use of our EBSCO full text resources have declined 64% and use of their indexes 73%. I think we'll be looking for this content elsewhere...
- Megan loves summer
phew. well, I can't say I'm sorry to see this chickenshit tactic backfire.
- RepoRat
I like most of my EBSCO contacts, but the guy they had delivering the FUD sales pitch when we looked at EDS last year really turned me off.
- Royce's favorite Anna
“Bird vocalizations” and other best-ever plagiarism excuses: A wrap-up of the 3rd World Conference on Research Integrity | Retraction Watch - http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/2013...
ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤, Sir Shuping is just sir and Joe Boone liked this
Can't add a thing to that title.
- RepoRat
from Bookmarklet
Cheep cheep.
- Betsy #TeamMonique
Then I asked in excitation, "Must I not add a citation? Tell me now without dilation: must I toil upon that chore? Must I yet prolong my labour and yet toil upon that chore?" Quoth the raven "Nevermore."
- Deborah Fitchett
<3
- RepoRat
I think I told this story in here before, but one of my brother's students blamed his 98% plagiarized paper on the person he hired to write it.
- Andy
how do you pronounce subsequent: sub-SEE-quent or sub-suh-quent?
sub-suh-quent
- Monique the crochet freak
the second.
- holly #ravingfangirl
suh
- Jenica
It depends on the noun for me.
- Anika
sub-suh-quent
- John (bird whisperer)
Both, actually. Same with either and neither. I have no sense of consistency.
- Jed Harris-Keith
sub-seh-quent.
- Betsy #TeamMonique
suh (or seh, but not accented)
- Walt Crawford
SUB-suh-quent
- Kirsten
sub-si-quent
- Heleninstitches
suh
- Rachel Walden
suh
- Hedgehog
suh or seh
- Catherine Pellegrino
suh or seh
- Meg V. Meg
SUB-s@-qu@nt (where @ is a schwa aka standard "not-really-a-vowel" vowel on unstressed syllables)
- Deborah Fitchett
sub SEE quent for sure
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
Never heard it any other way than SUB se quent
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Depends on the meter of the verse ;) I'm kind of into the aesthetics of prosody.
- Victor Ganata
sub-si-quent
- Jason - The Opaque
from Android
suh
- Headless Gnad Kicker
On the one hand surveys about OA by publishers are bound to be carp. On the other, if we don't do them, how will we know precisely what kind of carp they are?
Heather Piwowar, Kirsten, Joe Boone and Meg V. Meg liked this
For example, having question #17 suddenly reverse how the 1-10 scale maps to most-least important compared to all previous questions. (I used the next available text box to alert them to this in strong language.)
- Deborah Fitchett
Deborah, a "workplace climate" survey that MPOW did several months ago did EXACTLY that. I was horrified.
- DJF
Annual budget report delivered in monotone with terrible slides. Going on 30 min. Kill me now.
♫410 I Coach 'em Up♫, Kirsten, WoH: Professor MOTHRA and LB: #TeamMonique liked this
Are the slides all bullet points and text?
- Chelle Chelle Ro Ro
Fake a seizure. GTFO of there.
- Julie Kane
shall we text you with an emergency?
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
I tuned out and made it through.
- Royce's favorite Anna
bullet points and graphs with too small text
- Royce's favorite Anna
This is why I always take pen and paper. So I can draw bad sketches or write fanfic or anything to keep me from literally falling asleep.
- Deborah Fitchett
It was too early for me to be that forward thinking.
- Royce's favorite Anna
from Android
First milestone on The Big Deal and the Damage Done: Now in double-digit sales. (If it hits triple digits, there will probably be a 2012 followup.) Including two sales each in Canada and the UK. Since my only promise to my wife was that the book would sell well enough to cover the cost of my own paperback copy, it's a good start.
John Dupuis, Angel R. Rivera, Kirsten and 4 other people liked this
Good title
- maʀtha
Is there any chance we could unglue this? I'd love to force it upon people who may not want to read it but should.
- barbara fister
I would be in like Flynn. Want my students to read this.
- RepoRat
I think unglue.it only works with titles that have been Traditionally Published but a) I could be wrong and b) anyway that's no reason we couldn't do the same thing separately from them.
- Deborah Fitchett
If you mean "for a given price, would I make the PDF version free"? The answer is...Absolutely. And that price would assure that a 2012 version gets done. I'm still considering something-like-Kickstartr for a second (and much improved) version of Give Us a Dollar..., and certainly a sponsored/prepaid version of this is reasonable.
- Walt Crawford
The question is how that could actually happen. Not sure the unglue.it technique will work. Ideas welcome.
- Walt Crawford
what's your concern about unglue.it?
- RepoRat
I don't have a concern about unglue.it, but I'm assuming that Deborah's right. If it *would* work, that's OK too. (If the end result is a $0.00 Lulu PDF--which Lulu still supports--or mounting the PDF elsewhere.)
- Walt Crawford
oh, I see. well, I can have a chat with Andromeda Yelton. :)
- RepoRat
I just looked at the unglue.it FAQs. It appears to *require* an EPUB that "meets our quality standards"--and an EPUB would require quite a bit more work for me (as in, right now I don't know how I'd do that), and it seems that rightsholders are expected to do the publicity and come up with all sorts of premiums.
- Walt Crawford
So: Not ruling anything out, but there are definitely some hurdles. Of course, if I had appropriate ongoing sponsorship or appropriate revenue-producing affiliation, most of this would be moot: I'd cheerfully give the stuff away for the good of the community. (Or, hell, if the Fed wasn't so actively punishing savers...)
- Walt Crawford
happy to epub it for you, Walt. and i would happily put you in touch with Andromeda to talk about publicity/premiums/etc.
- jambina
All possible. Of course, so far only 11 people have thought it worth $9.99 or $16.50 to read it, so this all may be a little premature.
- Walt Crawford
Depends on what the market actually is. I haven't bought in because I don't personally need the details... but I'd damn straight pay to unglue it, because then it would be there for All The Librarians and All The Students and All The Faculty.
- RepoRat
Realistically, though, would enough people do that to bring in, say, $6,000 (plus costs of unglue.it and premiums)? I know that 80% of publishing campaigns on Kickstartr fail... And just having it available for free on unglue.it doesn't mean it *reaches* the librarians and students and faculty. If the market is, say, 50 copies for a nominal $9.99 a copy but LOTS OF COPIES if it's free...
more...
- Walt Crawford
And yes, that thought has come to mind: If it's important [ACRL |ARL | IMLS | Gates | SPARC | OCLC | whoever...] would already be doing it, so it must not be important.
- Walt Crawford
FYI I'm talking with Andromeda and have sent her a link to this thread.
- RepoRat
Hi, it's Eric from Unglue.it. Sounds like the book has been published, so no problem there. We've had print books converted to high quality epub for $500, so that shouldn't be a huge barrier; there are programs (such as that used by Internet archive) that turn PDF into epub automatically; if you know html you can do cleanup by hand. If you prefer to hire someone, I suggest asking for a quote on bibliocrunch.com- you can do conversion contingent on campaign success.
- Eric Hellman
Also PDF-only is OK if the work has a huge amount of layout that won't work well in epub.
- Eric Hellman
Eric: The book is *mostly* figures and tables (94 graphs and 58 tables). In fact, there's only about 19,000 words of text. It strikes me that PDF-to-EPUB is the wrong way to go if I do this--if I was doing a Kindle version, I'd work from Word (striking running headers & footers), which would be a snap assuming Kindle's conversion managed the reintegration of the 94 figures properly.
- Walt Crawford
I suspect the more important issues are setting a price, how much of my time/effort is required for a campaign, and like that.
- Walt Crawford
LSW whip-round for premiums, mebbe? I don't have a whole lot to offer that's tangible, but I can talk to cont-ed about seats in one of my classes. I could even offer a daylong zero-honorarium expenses-only training trip, though I'd want that to be for a pretty big donation! (Tailored webinar for smaller donation also fine; I could offer 3-5 of these?)
- RepoRat
Word to Epub is even easier.https://www.google.com/search...
- Eric Hellman
in addition to the methods suggested by google, also consider Smashwords- you get distribution there as well.
- Eric Hellman
I'm off to hike shortly. Lemme think about this. If you've been reading my blog lately, you can already guess the likely <net> price. It may be worth pursuing. (I like the idea that a 2012 version would be more-or-less guaranteed.)
- Walt Crawford
If you decide to go the crowdfunding route, remember that the funds you can raise reflect your social capital rather than anything about the book itself. Average your pageviews per week and your social media followers, and that's more or less the social capital you can draw on.
- Eric Hellman
Eric: My social capital is...peculiar. My blog has absurdly high pageviews (average 5,360/day this year), for reasons unknown. On Facebook, I have 245 Friends and 29 Followers (and almost no activity). Here, I have 208 subscribers--probably the most meaningful number. (LinkedIn? 290, I think. Google+? 497, I think. Twitter, 128. But I'm only really active here.)
- Walt Crawford
Oh, and Klout currently has me at 43--nowhere near, say, Sarah Glassmeyer or Michael Sauer. Anyway: Got a message from Andromeda. I'll be pondering this in the next day or two.
- Walt Crawford
Walt, does the book not have an ISBN? I was unable to find it on LuLu.
- Eric Hellman
Eric: The book does not have an ISBN, since I wanted to keep it cheap so didn't plan on non-Lulu distribution. You should have no trouble finding it on Lulu, either searching for Walt Crawford or for Big Deal Damage (without "damage," some other books show up first). (Just tried it: with big deal damage as a search, the two versions are the first two results.)
- Walt Crawford
Folks in general: So far, nobody's added a comment to my blog post or sent me email suggesting the kind of premiums that might work. Other than custom group profiles or signed copies of the limited number of author's copies of my two most recent professionally-published books, I need suggestions...both for their own good and as indications of widespread interest.
- Walt Crawford
Hmm. Come to think of it, I could also offer signed copies of my older professionally-published books, about two dozen in all, but since there are typically only one or two of each book, it would be an odd offering (most of these are OP and unavailable--and more memories than useful).
- Walt Crawford
I have an open educational resources project that will produce a physical object (an "artist" book) assuming I manage to complete it. Producing more than one isn't difficult once the initial work is done and I'd be willing to donate a copy or two for a good cause.
- Rebecca Hedreen
Walt, you do realize that libraries are non-Lulu distribution, don't you? Unglue.it cannot at present handle items that claim to be books that don't have isbns or oclc numbers, or are in Google Books. Let me know if this is an issue for you, as we have remedies.
- Eric Hellman
Eric: If you mean libraries can't buy from Lulu, I'll suggest that's not true. I can, of course, get an ISBN if I want to issue a new edition--but a Lulu ISBN has to stay with Lulu. I'd guess there will be an OCLC number for the book pretty soon. Oh, wait: There already is: 841810944 - U.Missouri cataloged an ebook copy RAPIDLY!
- Walt Crawford
Rebecca, Thanks--as with RR, I may take you up on the offer, although it feels a little odd to have other people providing the premiums. (This whole thing's a little odd for me, probably why I never actually tried Kickstartr for a project...I need to become more entrepreneurial, tough at my advanced age.)
- Walt Crawford
Walt- Can libraries buy ebooks from Lulu? Also, an OCLC number makes it work with unglue.it
- Eric Hellman
I hear Neil Young singing this title everytime
- maʀtha
Eric: I don't see why libraries can't buy ebooks from Lulu as well as anybody else can (I'm pretty sure they do). And, as noted, the book now has an OCLC number, 841810944
- Walt Crawford
For everybody except self-publishers, Lulu is a big online bookstore, with a few million titles, selling print books, ebooks, calendars and other stuff. On the other hand, Lulu won't invoice and do all that stuff, so *some* libraries may have difficulties. (Isn't that true with Amazon as well?)
- Walt Crawford
[Note: I made a "more standard" version of Give Us a Dollar... available via Amazon, with ISBN and everything, using CreateSpace. To date, that version has sold two (2) copies, compared to the 81 sold through Lulu for editions that don't have ISBNs. I know at least some and probably most of those sales are to libraries.]
- Walt Crawford
Update: I now have a response from Andromeda about my first-cut goals & premiums. Here's how I would summarize the response (although possibly not what was intended): "1. Become an extrovert. 2. Become more of an extrovert. 3. Become an entrepreneur. 4. Start calling lots of those close friends you have--you do have lots of close friends you'd call personally, right?--to promote this....
more...
- Walt Crawford
I'll look at this again shortly, but it looks much as I saw it for successful and unsuccessful Kickstarter campaigns: These are tools for extroverts/entrepreneurs.
- Walt Crawford
OK, here's where things stand. I've responded to Andromeda at some length. I just don't see how unglue.it can work for me, as an introvert without a Huge Social Network who hates the phone and doesn't much care for begging friends, and who's neither a self-promoter nor a marketer. Which does NOT mean that the "free version" is out of the question--there's another, simpler way, which I'll probably propose in a few days.
- Walt Crawford
[Gotta admit, Eric H. hasn't helped matters--as always seemed to be the case when we interacted years ago, he seems to me to regard me as an amiable incompetent, and while he may be right, that doesn't make me want to jump through hoops to give away my work on his terms.]
- Walt Crawford
So, we had to improve our code a bit, for reasons not really related to TBDATDD, but it has an unglue.it page: https://unglue.it/work/120545/ People can now "wish" for the book, so you can assess the feasibililty of ungluing it without any particular commitment.
- Eric Hellman
As far as "amiable incompetent" is concerned, I've always regarded you as neither amiable nor incompetent! "Aways-correct curmudgeon" would be a better statement of my impression of you.
- Eric Hellman
Also, it's funny, but Andromeda is quite a lot like Walt!
- Eric Hellman
Today while Sunday Librarianing, I start Project Digitize Binders From My Formal Education:
ᏓᏰ #team Monique, Kelli H., Kirsten and 4 other people liked this
Whee?
- LB: #TeamMonique
from Android
oh, now that's a good idea. are you scanning to PDF or what?
- Marie
Yep, scanning to PDF
- lris
So far, I found the toast I gave to my baby brother in speech class, and my "electronic communications" class wherein I learned to save files and change fonts in WordPerfect 7 during the week labeled "Power tools and system software."
- lris
88 pages of notes from taking my dad's super-scary required course as a sophomore.
- lris
Freshman and Sophomore years done. Only 6 more years to go...
- lris
Digitize and dispose of?
- Steele Lawman
yes
- lris
this is a very good idea. I wonder if I could get my husband to agree to it. At least for the dang Chinese he hasn't looked at in twenty years.
- RepoRat
I'm about to chuck out my notes from undergrad. So long Old Saxon, Middle Dutch, and Middle High German. Well... maybe not Middle Dutch. My translations of Eulenspiegel are hilarious.
- kendrak
I did the same thing years and years ago. Except I didn't scan them first. In many cases, I didn't take them first.
- Steele Lawman
Iris helped me throw mine out a few years go. i haven't missed them a bit
- maʀtha
Every now and then I go through all my stuff and toss a little more. There are some things I'm glad I've kept, but most are just food for silverfish.
- Deborah Fitchett
steve, if i find the notebook of the nazi history class i took where you can clearly see where i fell asleep each week, i'll scan a page. i eventually gave up towards the end.
- kendrak
"Food for silverfish" is going to be my new nasty epithet
- maʀtha
you people don't move often enough if you've still got that stuff.
- DJF
i'm still in the same apartment i lived in when i took some of those classes!
- kendrak
I've moved several times...
- lris
I threw out most of my notes from college and grad school. In fact, I remember burning physics notes.
- Laura H.
Oh yes, I had a burning notes party with some of my friends from my math class. Good times. :-)
- lris
I had no idea people kept notes. I rarely kept them in class. (Hello, soulmate Steve!)
- barbara fister
To be fair, I was a theatre major and spent most of my time pretending I was a lion or pretending I knew how to use a pneumatic nail gun, or something like that. Can't put that kind of real-world experience in a binder.
- Steele Lawman
All I have from my formal education is my undergrad dissertation, my Masters dissertation, and a few notes from my library course.
- Pete #TeamMonique
Who would win in a fight, a giant silverfish with a binder in each claw, or a lion with a nail gun?
- Jason P
I used to take all my notes home and dump them in my childhood bedroom. That backfired when my mom made me bring them all home with me when I moved them to La Crosse. I spent a long weekend reliving most of college, which brought down the amount of paperwork considerably. Still need to plug in my scanner and get the rest of it digitized.
- Hedgehog
DJF, I moved 14 times in 10 years, and I still have all that crap.
- laura x
The last time (15 years ago or more) that I had to scan important documents, the OCR capability proved pretty marginal. I'm guessing that they've improved substantially? At the time I mostly just tossed stuff, cases and cases of stuff, because we were moving from Seattle to the Twin Cities and my spouse said "No way we're moving all of that crap." Haven't missed it since.
- Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ
And yes, the silverfish factor played a role in my decision.
- Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ
It's been a lot of fun looking at some of this stuff again. Who knows if I'll look at it ever again, but maybe in another 10 or 15 years I'll page through again and have another nostalgia fest.
- lris
my eternal problem is figuring out what undergrad English texts to keep or give away. Even though I don't really like classic literature, I'm always so conflicted about "but it's Norton's Anthology of [whatever], it's classic!"
- MontglaneChess
Oh yeah. I still have my Nortons. I will NEVER read them. Even if I want to read things in them, I'd read them in separate volumes.
- lris
What barbara sez. Class over: Notes gone.
- Walt Crawford
Burning math and physics notes. Blasphemy, I tell ya.
- Joe Boone
Burning chemistry notes, on the other hand, seems entirely appropriate. Even better if you could get them to explode or dissolve somehow.
- Steele Lawman
Hydrochloric acid should do the trick.
- Joe Boone
I took notes in lecture/exam courses but not really in discussion/project courses. I kept all my papers, though, except the ones from one course. I wish I hadn't tossed those because there was a lot of drama surrounding that course and I want to remember what I actually wrote.
- lris
I have notes I took in GRADE SCHOOL.
- laura x
I would be such a terrible archivist. I throw away ALL THE THINGS. Wait, maybe I would be a half-good archivist.
- barbara fister
So I just learned that Proquest dumped hundreds of thousands of dissertations into Turnitin. I think this is evil. I also learned, poking around, that many ETDs have a "run it through Turnitin" step. I don't think libraries should be supporting a private corporation that relies on a dubious fair use claim to build their empire of badness.
Yvonne, Kirsten, Garret McMahon and Joe Boone liked this
Sorry, just had to vent. Curious if any of you feel differently.
- barbara fister
WHAT? This is just ridiculous on so many levels.
- Lisa Hinchliffe
hmmm. so, publishing your dissertation with PQ now means you give up your copyright too? doesn't Turnitin take rights over everything that it puts in its maw?
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
from YouFeed
I agree. It sucks.
- Marianne
It's not the fair use claim that bothers me about Turnitin. After all, if you think Google books is fair use, then you can't complain about the transformative use of Turnitin. My complaint has always been the fact that my school requires students to enhance their business model in order to pass a course.
- DJF
from Android
...I wonder if mine's in there? how would I check, if my campus doesn't have Turnitin?
- Catherine Pellegrino
I've been complaining about their business practices for years. Looks like I started complaining on my blog in _2006_ (!!!). http://jasongriffey.net/wp...
- Jason Griffey
from iPhone
(note also that students in classes that use Turnitin are required to accept the company's terms of use, which grant that company a license to use the material submitted, so they don't actually depend on the fair use defense. See also my complaints about facilitating commerce while doing my homework.)
- DJF
In court they have relied on fair use (and if that flies, it should totally be okay for HathiTrust too, Google Books and any other way people want to mine copyrighted texts) but in this case it doesn't seem anyone gave them permission except ProQuest. Maybe the third party checkoff thing is how they are getting around it. It's still outrageous, imo. While poking around, though, I was amazed at how many universities say they won't accept a dissertation until hit has been run through Turnitin.
- barbara fister
I bet it is the third party checkoff - I don't think they could do that otherwise.
- Sarah
Ah, I haven't read the decision carefully. Given other lawsuits, it seemed a really weird invocation of fair use (so long as you use it for something, SURE, GO RIGHT AHEAD! But libraries? whoa, have to think about that...) I wonder how long that third party link has been an option (or default or whatever it is...)
- barbara fister
BTW, here's a press release.This happened over a year ago. How many people know about it? http://pages.turnitin.com/rs...
- barbara fister
I know it's been added within the past five years or so, because our Graduate College had a fit when they realized some of the dissertations were being sold on Amazon without the students knowing it. PQ provided a new agreement with a yes or no option at that point.
- Sarah
Because the grad students didn't know that they were doing that. Finding your dissertation on amazon without knowing it would be there was shocking for many. They get the PQ selling it, but expected it to just stay there.
- Sarah
Had a similar experience to Sarah, only in my case it was library brass who got the Fatal Email from a pissed-off graduate, and they assumed it was somehow my fault -- either I had set this up somehow, or I'd told ProQuest it was okay.
- RepoRat
I'm very lucky in that our Graduate College is very sane.
- Sarah
Holy shit.
- Meg V. Meg
Given my generally anti-copyright stance, I think I'm totally fine with this?
- Steele Lawman
But given that dissertations aren't published in the same way that published books and articles are, I think I might have a problem with this? Clearly I'm conflicted.
- Steele Lawman
It's a puzzle. I was a tad annoyed when I found Goodreads was importing my personal blog onto their site, but then thought "well, it does have a cc license." I can see why people who didn't realize Proquest could sell it on any platform including ones they use daily were taken aback.
- barbara fister
I'm not sure why dissertations aren't public domain in the first place.
- Bill Hooker
(Turning up in Turnitin would annoy me though.)
- barbara fister
US attitudes are very market-oriented. This post at IHE today on Swedish approaches to dissertations was interesting .... http://www.insidehighered.com/blogs...
- barbara fister
That is quite interesting - thanks for posting!
- Sarah
Stupid question, how does ProQuest having the right to do whatever they want with dissertations lead to Amazon? I've seen questions about students confused to see it there.
- aarontay
If they can do whatever they want then that includes selling it on Amazon (rather than just through their own platform) where it'll get a wider distribution but authors weren't expecting to see it there.
- Deborah Fitchett
Amazon is not publishing the books. ProQuest is listing them on Amazon, which it's allowed to do since the students generally given ProQuest a license to distribute them.
- DJF
I'd still like to see Barbara's original source for where she got this information (unless it's a private communication, etc.) -- not that I don't believe her, but I'd like to see the context, etc. -- and I'm still curious how dissertation authors can determine if their work is contained within Turnitin or not -- or are we to understand that ALL PQ dissertations are included?
- Catherine Pellegrino
Sorry, missed this question way back when - I believe it came up on WPA-L but is also in this news release http://turnitin.com/en_us... It's not clear, but it sounds as if it's everything post 2008, though maybe opt-outers are out. I don't know how authors would know if their work is there or not.
- barbara fister
My bigger problem with TUrnitin is that it teaches students how to plagiarise more deviously. As an academic I have used it when my radar went off abt student work so I manually uploaded (unit outline tells students I may do this). Think the PQ uploads feed into bigger text/data mining issues & copyright which will utterly explode in next 2 years
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
from iPhone
I dunno, isn't plagiarising with sufficient deviousness indistinguishable from a literature review? Is the problem that it doesn't teach them how to plagiarise deviously *enough*?
- Deborah Fitchett
Nah - most common plagiarism is throwing a thesaurus at someone else's work then passing it off as their own.
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
from iPhone
Can I coin the symbol "!!!=" to mean "is really really NOT equal to"? Eg: "in the public domain" !!!= "in a publicly accessible pre-print repository or report" (http://www.functionalecology.org/view...).
Joe Boone, Kirsten, RepoRat and Meg V. Meg liked this
≢
- Meg V. Meg
And by that I mean, yay.
- Meg V. Meg
open access !!!= open source
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
open access !!!= open format (though the two should be related, IMHO)
- Julian
and open access !!!= openly accessible
- Deborah Fitchett
!!! !!!= ? and the Mysterians?
- Zamms
Proposal: we need a "glue.it" project to be the evil twin of unglue.it wherein authors would be paid to stop churning out books. James Patterson, Ann Coulter, JK Rowling--the options are endless.
ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤, Pete #TeamMonique, Angel R. Rivera and 7 other people liked this
*snerk* Like paying people not to grow tobacco.
- Marianne
Bloggers too. SKitchen comes to mind.
- John Dupuis
putasockin.it?
- Deborah Fitchett
liked for deborah's url
- awd
I will gladly take your money not to blog anymore.
- Andy
A domainsquatterhas.it
- Joe Boone
wellsh.it
- Steele Lawman
shut.it
- Andy
anarchosyndical.it
- Pete #TeamMonique
and now I want to reread Le Guin's "Dispossessed". Thanks.
- DJF
did I really need to dream about ebooks? GAH. ಠ_ಠ
Jaclyn aka spamgirl, Kelli H., Bren and 6 other people liked this
Did I really need to dream about my ex-grilfriend?
- Friar Ticket to Ride
bleh, will. that's even worse. :(
- holly #ravingfangirl
Well, it could have been worse. I could have dreamed about my ex-wife. :^)
- Friar Ticket to Ride
Dreams are so very weird at times. Makes you wonder what the hell your mind is working through.
- Friar Ticket to Ride
srsly.
- holly #ravingfangirl
from iPhone
my mom has been dreaming about me acting out (doing drugs, hanging out with vampires) because she doesn't spend enough time with me.
- ~Courtney F
I dreamed about a meeting discussing which statistics we should gather for the annual report. I was arguing passionately that the number of library staff was of no interest and we should instead be telling stories about the awesome things those staff have done for our users. --I guess it beats the old anxiety dreams about trying to get students to leave at closing time.
- Deborah Fitchett
If you've ever doubted Murphy's Law, this morning my colleague, manager and I were all out at a Koha intro session and came back to discover that three of our major systems had fallen over for two different reasons, neither of which were related to the major telephony upgrade ITS did overnight.
Kathryn is Blake in Hindi and Meg V. Meg liked this
(On the plus side, the session continued the trend of every time I hear about Koha I'm even more impressed than I was already expecting to be. Also, it turns out that when the vendor's office is located over a pub, you get the best morning teas ever.)
- Deborah Fitchett
"Oh, if it's for your thesis, maybe you should use the *real* databases" #discoverylayerburnout
Sir Shuping is just sir, LibrarianOnTheLoose, Joe Boone and 3 other people liked this
isn't that the whole point of a discovery layer?
- kendrak
to get tired of them, so we don't have to use them anymore?
- Meg V. Meg
as far as I can tell, discovery layers exist to create conference talks about discovery layers
- Pete #TeamMonique
Discovery layers exist because we're convinced undergrads are too stupid to learn how to use the real databases.
- Zamms
Or maybe we're too lazy to use real databases anymore?
- kendrak
or maybe small pots of data are less useful than larger pots of data to explore against?
- awd
We're holding onto the dream of federated search.
- Zamms
We should create a conference about how to create conference presentations about discovery layers.
- Joe Boone
"federated" was doomed from the start... response times take too long without holding the indexes locally -- and if you'r eholding the indexes closely, you may as well integrate them into one master index to rule them all with 3 or 7 or 9 subindicies that mkae sense depending on the data supplied in the original indexing
- awd
It's not that undergrads are too stupid, it's that they're too busy. But for a thesis omg yeah.
- Deborah Fitchett
Or maybe discovery layers are appealing partially because database interfaces suck? We should push to fix the systems we pay for instead of agreeing to buy more systems to stick over the top. (Side eye to Sierra, which I'm fairly sure we're going to get.)
- kaijsa
It's not that Summon doesn't give you lots of good results; it's that you can't rely on it to give you *exhaustive* results, and for a thesis literature review you really need to make sure you've covered all your bases. Maybe some fields it would be okay, just not any I've ever been involved in.
- Deborah Fitchett
exhaustive in what sense? Given that Summon, EDS etc are bigger than any 1 database & say, I use " Add results beyond your library's collection" + login before searching to get access to Wos/Proquest A&I/ERIC results etc or in the case of EDS uncheck "Available in Library Collection (Physical & Online)", how is this necessarily less exhaustive than the pre-discovery days of going to one...
more...
- aarontay
That's not exhaustive, that's *exhausting* ;)
- Meg V. Meg
I do have sympathy for the argument that Summon , EDS, make it difficult to do precise searches to be fairly sure you have done a comprehensive search that you missed something though (I think I don't trust the relevancy enough so I would go very deep....). And of course no argument that Summon/EDS + databases would be more powerful than either alone. Lastly, I wonder does it really...
more...
- aarontay
Asking honestly: are 317 million results useful? I suggest subject indices for advanced research not just because of their depth, but because there's *some* sort of selection going on there. I'm really torn -- some days seriously anti-discovery, some days seeing its benefit for the naive searcher. But the tech doesn't live up to the promise, so usually I feel that the millions of results aren't actually that useful.
- Amandadon't
"Less is more" argument has it's points. Still I wonder. Assume a case where you manually did a search separately in 5 quality databases. Then someone (say Ebsco which does have quite a few A&Is) came along and offered you a option to search all 5 of them at one shot. Would you take up the offer? Why not? How about we ramp it up to 10 ? 20? At what point do you prefer to search...
more...
- aarontay
Sure, but where exactly, among your 317 million results, is the stuff you would have missed out on? And if you can't point to all of that stuff, then aren't you still missing out on it? And, really, if you're getting 317 million results from a truly exhaustive search for your thesis lit review, then you need a more narrow topic, and subject indices tend to offer better ways of helping you move towards that.
- Meg V. Meg
Staff you missed out on using only databases? That's more of an empirical matter on how often that occurs, but grad students have told me they found very relevant stuff in Summon they missed after months of looking at databases. I myself have had this experience. Of course the reverse happens as well, though i really think people who are not smart enough to use the articles they find to...
more...
- aarontay
Oh well, computer science. :-) (Though I suspect compsci students would still go to specialised subject databases like gitHub, they just wouldn't realise that's what they're doing.) It's different if you're doing something like chemistry where (never mind the utility of structure searching) key databases just aren't indexed by Summon. Or like fire engineering or earthquake engineering...
more...
- Deborah Fitchett
Who was the person back in the 80s who said that 30 results was a good amount of records to find in a narrowed down results list? I thought it was Mary something, but not Mary Ellen Bates.
- Joe Boone
I love Aaron's point (if I'm reading him right) about how easy it is to get caught up in databases as if research = searching databases. In my narrow experience, it seems like expert humanities faculty know and respect the subject databases in their field, but actually find most of their sources through the stuff they read and the citations therein, or through searching things like Google and Google Scholar.
- Steele Lawman
Citation mining! It's a better rabbit hole to fall down because you're more likely to stay on topic.
- Zamms
Yeah I usually end up finding more stuff mining citations (forward and back). But isn't there a empirical test we can do here? I vaguely remember someone posting a informal test of eds or was it primo here and was surprised at how well it did, but I can't remember the methodology.
- aarontay
Empirical tests are hard--while we can measure recall, it's tougher to test whether a novice researcher with a vague question and limited understanding of relevant terminology will be able to find "relevant" items. I've lost count of the number of undergrads who come to me because they've tried the discovery layer and can't find anything but then have eureka when we go to a subject database (or even an aggregator). The items *were* indexed in the discovery layer, but they just couldn't get at 'em as easily.
- Megan loves summer
Anyway I don't know, much smarter people than me have debated the virtues of discovery systems before me not sure what I add to the conversation. I do spend crazy amounts of times running through searches done by users including looking at refinements they do and staring at the top 10 results. Essentially even at this superficial level, when they do well they do very well but...
more...
- aarontay
I agree with kaijsa if the existing non discovery interfaces were intuitive in any way at all we wouldn't be trying to throw discovery layers on top
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
from BuddyFeed
Wonder if things like this will ever help us discover better http://cs.stanford.edu/people...
- barbara fister
wow Barbara that is too effing cool
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
from BuddyFeed
Is someone making a list thing of data journals (eg GigaScience, Scientific Data, etc)?
Jaclyn aka spamgirl, Marie, Christina Pikas and 5 other people liked this
I wish. I have to go trolling for 'em every time somebody asks.
- RepoRat
In that case behold: https://www.diigo.com/user... So far it contains two journals, shall add more as I come across them...
- Deborah Fitchett
ossum. what's the best way to toss you more?
- RepoRat
Things like this? http://jpcrd.aip.org/
- Joe Boone
This looks like a good list. http://proj.badc.rl.ac.uk/prepard...
- Joe Boone
Email me - deborah.fitchett at gmail.com - or just here; thanks, #joe!
- Deborah Fitchett
Kick my butt if I don't toss you a bunch more out of my work email tomorrow.
- RepoRat
Thanks! I think I've added all those linked above, though Diigo is throwing hissy fits. Will add others as I come across them. At some point may need to work on discipline ontology but in the meantime...
- Deborah Fitchett
Splitting and lumping question! I'm currently being broad and including pretty much any journal that accepts data papers and/or explicitly supports linking to associated datasets, whether or not it has data as a primary focus and whether or not it hosts the dataset itself. Would people find it useful to add tags for some of these distinctions? And if so, for which (and what tags to use)?
- Deborah Fitchett
There are tons--depends on what you want to do! Web-based? Desktop? Need graphics? More formal concept mapping? Mobile?
- Megan loves summer
Popplet is super quick. http://popplet.com/
- Megan loves summer
I also like Mind Meister (http://www.mindmeister.com/) and Mindomo (http://www.mindomo.com/)
- Megan loves summer
ooh thanks!
- kendrak
The Brain is just fun: http://www.thebrain.com/
- Megan loves summer
i hate mind mapping. it makes no sense to me #totallytextbased
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
LibrarianOnTheLoose, I mostly feel the same way. But I have used it for larger research projects. I can't use it for something small, like a journal article sized thing, because basic linear outlining works for me for that.
- DJF
Neither mind-mapping nor Prezi works for me. I'm not visual enough or something. My husband loves Inspiration, but that's not free.
- Rebecca Hedreen
freemind
- Christina Pikas
I've tried a few and still prefer pencil and paper. I think when I'm brainstorming I don't want to have to think about how to work the damn software.
- Deborah Fitchett
I've used bubbl.us with classes, and while not perfect, works well on desktop.
- kaijsa
iPencil and iPaper are my favorite.
- Rochelle's favorite Royce
For the record, I've found that some people get really excited and inspired when working with software as opposed to pen and paper (I've mostly given workshops with Cmap Tools). So if we're talking about helping other people to learn...multiple approaches are a good thing!
- Megan loves summer
What's the most polite verb combo for turning down a non-OA writing gig? "Cannot" is untrue. "Will not" sounds petulant. "Choose not to" sounds entitled.
Galadriel C., John Dupuis, Jason - The Opaque and 2 other people liked this
(ok, maybe not POLITE, but...meh)
- ellbeecee
Maybe expressing as a positive? "I only write for open-access publications" or similar. Leaves the door open to "hey, we're gonna release this OA!"
- RepoRat
"I would prefer not to."
- Stephen le Francoeur
can you work "committed"/"commitment" in there somehow? "I am committed to writing only for open-access publications"?
- Catherine Pellegrino
or just "don't": "I don't write for publications that don't permit some degree of open access."
- Catherine Pellegrino
Yeah, I think it's some form of "I have committed to... and therefore am currently unable to..." with a side of "if X implements a more OA-friendly blah blah, I'd be happy to reconsider" (if that's true)
- Rachel Walden
I think RR gets it in one, although you might want to add "articles" to that--"I only write articles for open access journals." Or what Catherine says (but do you feel the same about books?)
- Walt Crawford
*regrets making Bartleby the Scrivener allusion, which sank like a lead ballon*
- Stephen le Francoeur
I liked it, Stephen.
- Meg V. Meg
"i have committed to only write/review/sit on editorial boards of open access publications" is my standard line.
- jambina
MWAH MWAH MWAH you guys are the best.
- Meg V. Meg
Unfortunately, I am not able to accept this post/position at this time. Blah, blah, blah.
- Joe Boone
though i have to say, i like lbc's - something like SUKKIT! OA4LIFE!
- jambina
I just sent one of those today for an invitation to write something for a T&F encyclopedia of our profession. I wrote "I have pledged to only publish in open access venues in so far as it is possible, and so I am declining this invitation. Quite honestly, my time would be more usefully spent improving a Wikipedia article on this topic."
- barbara fister
Crabby, much?
- barbara fister
I'm kind of in favor of making T&F's life less pleasant, as well as those who continue to donate labor to T&F. If that makes me crabby, I'm in damn good company!
- RepoRat
i love you barbara fister
- jambina
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
- Andy
While I appreciate the offer, at present blah blah blah--see my blog post commitment etc etc. :)
- Hedgehog
Claim to be too busy.
- Joe Boone
After reading more of the thread--Yes, do tell them that you would do it if they were OA, or allowed for immediate green OA copies.
- Joe Boone
In other news, I am on a library advisory board for CRC Library Advistory Board for this summer meeting. I think I will have some things to say about the T&F MotherShip policies.
- Joe Boone
Need to figure out how to use the line "Quite honestly, my time would be more usefully spent improving a Wikipedia article on this topic" somewhere.
- Joe Boone
Oh yes, this was almost a year ago, I have long since responded :)
- Meg V. Meg
This is the money quote: "Quite honestly, my time would be more usefully spent improving a Wikipedia article on this topic" thank you
- awd
Ahhh, that BF revived it with her money quote.
- Joe Boone
Oh, how funny! I didn't realize I'm joining a conversation started LAST May. How'd that happen?
- barbara fister
Argh, there's a Wikipedia article I promised to improve for someone a couple of months ago....
- Deborah Fitchett
It accidentally got bumped because I linked to it in the new thread about the OA TandF issue (http://ff.im/1ffYLP) because this old thread was where I had asked you guys how to respond when they asked me to write something for that very issue.
- Meg V. Meg
Well I'm glad it did, because it was fun to share my off-the-cuff email that was sent just this morning. Love me some serendipity.
- barbara fister
I don't mind chiming in on an old thread... I'd include the phrase "in good conscience" ;)
- Tinfoil 2.0
(I missed this one the first time :) Just reinforces why I want to be BF when I grow up )
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
Native Couture: Patricia Michaels | KUNM - http://kunm.org/post...
Kirsten, Jessie, Christina Pikas and 4 other people liked this
"Last spring, Michaels was scrapping by and had just been issued an eviction notice by her landlord. She stopped by the Public Library to check her email, and there in her inbox, was an invitation to audition for Project Runway from the shows casting agent. Even though Michaels had never seen the show, she watched a few episodes and decided to give it a shot, telling herself... Patricia: If you make it then this is your chance to have that audience and be seen by the industry, so don't give up. Michaels told me one of the most challenging aspects of the application process was that she is a severe dyslexic. Patricia: For the Project Runway application it's like 40 essay questions and like 500 photos and images, so filling out these applications I was just like I hope they understood what I just said (laughs) you know, I really hope that I made sense in this application. It took her almost a month to complete the application and she did it by going to the town library, using those two free half hours on the internet, every day"
- Katy S
from Bookmarklet
I know, it's about Project Runway, but I thought some of y'all might like reading about how much internet access at her public library meant to her.
- Katy S
Ohh i don't watch the show but i'd watch for her
- SteVe C
"It took her almost a month to complete the application and she did it by going to the town library, using those two free half hours on the internet, every day." - Whoops - just saw Katy already quoted this bit. :-)
- Deborah Fitchett
It's an important bit! She had to have internet access to be able to compete (which obviously could lead to more work for her), but even that one hour of time per day at the library is extremely limited considering what she needed to do.
- Katy S
Yes, it's one among many many perfect illustrations of why public libraries are so vital to (considers several possibilities, decides on:) civilisation.
- Deborah Fitchett
Yesterday, American Journal of Public Health emailed authors of *already published* articles to say that the journal's closed-access period has been extended from 2 years to 10 years, unless authors are willing to pony up $1000 (which the journal considers to be a "steeply discounted rate"). Uhhhh...ransom much?
Angel R. Rivera, suelibrarian and Joe Boone liked this
Huh, but of course they can't withdraw the PubMedCentral copy. So is this just preying on authors who don't know what PMC is?
- Meg V. Meg
I wonder how many takers they'll get.
- Marie
HAHAHAHAHA *sob*
- lris
2013 seems to be the year of publishers trying to figure out what the hell they can get away with.
- RepoRat
"Additionally, you may purchase a Noncommercial Common Use License (NCUL) for $500. This license enables readers to use your article for noncommercial purposes without the need to purchase permissions, and it also permits free reproduction of your article."
- Meg V. Meg
Unlike. Also, can they even--? No, what am I thinking, they own the copyright, don't they. <head-desk>
- Deborah Fitchett
feh.
- Marianne
See, this kind of thing (without the PMC aspect) is what I was wondering about with regard to the RUSQ situation: what can/will/does happen when a journal/society/publisher decides to renege on a previous agreement about OA? Obviously there are lots of possible answers to that question and a lot will depend on the contract language, but I think we may see more of this in the near future.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Catherine: And there's one of the strongest arguments for CC-BY: CC licenses are legally binding and can't be undone for a given article once applied. RR: As an optimist, I'd say that's the natural flipside of OA finally gaining some serious traction--looking for every possible way to $ubvert it.
- Walt Crawford
Well, the publisher CAN change the license under which it makes an article available. But if I received a copy of the article with a license that allows redistribution, then there's not much point in the publisher doing so, except to try to squeeze money out of people too stupid to google.
- DJF
Wow. Ow, too much headdesk. Pre-2006 I published in two journals that were OA and became TA as well as five journals that changed owners so now that stuff belongs to two evil empires and two small tollgates. All self-archived but yeah, get yer rights while you can.
- barbara fister
I have an idea: It can go OA 70 years after the death of author. If it's a work of corporate authorship, 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever expires first. That formula has been well tested and should fit better into existing workflows.
- lris
As Walt kind of says, I think this is a good thing in the get-worse-before-it-gets-better plan.
- Steele Lawman
http://gclibrary.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2013... (tweeted at them too)
- Meg V. Meg
I really wish I could get Jill onto FF. She is the person who wrote that article that I linked to earlier. http://dx.doi.org/10...
- Joe Boone
Nicely said!
- Walt Crawford
yes, that's VERY good.
- RepoRat
I don't get it. As mentioned its already in PMC so what's the point here?
- aarontay
Man, this serials stuff makes eBooks look like a gentleman's duel.
- Andy
The point is for the publisher to try to suck extra money from faculty who may not know any better.
- Joe Boone
New way to give directions to my house: my yard is the one with dandelions in it. Sorry. Not spraying chemicals just to have solid green.
Kelli H., Katy S, Kirsten and 13 other people liked this
The bees thank you.
- SAM
dandelions are awesome!
- Sir Shuping is just sir
I was just looking out my kitchen window and noticed that they sprung up over night. Then I looked up adn down the road and noticed no one else had any. I thought, "That's weird...OH." Yeah, I like dandelions too! I may spread some camomile seeds out there if I can find them.
- Sarah G.
At least not until you find out how deep of an aquifer you draw from, and in what general direction it is flowing.
- sglassme
I have a weed popper I can send up with Smiley. Think of all the fun he can have.
- sglassme
He do love any yard job that allows him to stare at the neighbors.
- Sarah G.
My mom uses corn gluten to control dandelions. Well, that and digging up dandelions, but that last one requires, like, moving and digging and stuff, and may be best left to the professionals.
- lris
...or a hyperactive toddler trapped in a 70 year old body.
- Sarah G.
What I have is something like this http://www.homedepot.com/p... . Step and pull. Step and pull. Really builds up the thigh muscles. I have a garden hose/sprayer that I done ruint that I was going to see if he could unscrew. Maybe I'll make it a two-fer with the popper.
- sglassme
I actually don't mind the dandelions. I think they're pretty. Neighbors may hate my "Typhoid Mary" yard though.
- Sarah G.
You can make dandelion wine. And harvest the greens.
- sglassme
I once tried eating dandelion leaves and they were super bitter. Someone told me you had to do this that and the other and I promptly gave up because it sounded like work. Nowadays I still hate dandelions but I can't be bothered to do anything about them.
- Deborah Fitchett
I'm SPECIAL. Would it be pointless to not renew my membership to a professional LIBRARY organization because they sold my information to spammers? I'd kinda like to rejoin but the amount of spam and junk mail I get because this ASSOCIATION sold me out makes me angry. Would it make any difference if I told them I'm out because of this?
Laura Norvig liked this
What makes it worse is they screwed up my details and I'm out there as CIO or CTO or something really important where I work but I'm really just a librarian, so all the spam and mail are not at all library related.
- Blake
well, you know that "special" is just code for "corporate". And those corp-ists would sell their mother's contact info.
- DJF
It might, if word reached the right people (ie, the governing board) they should have some kind of opt in or out for that sort of thing anyway.
- ~Courtney F
definitely tell them. all of that is something they have the power to fix. now, you don't know if they will fix it, depends on how much they made selling your info. they need to decide which is more important to them - making money or their members.
- Christa
it might also be illegal for them to do so under the american anti-spam rules.
- DJF
I thought there was an opt out?
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
I cannot imagine what library organization you are talking about, Blake.
- Chelle Chelle Ro Ro
Didn't we just talk about this with regard to Another Professional Organization last week? http://friendfeed.com/lsw...
- Catherine Pellegrino
a few years ago they sent malware so the official directory listing for me is at hotmail although i'm on all the lists at mpow's e-mail
- Christina Pikas
A thought just occurred to me, I don't know for sure they *sold* me out, I do know for sure that I traced it back to them, so maybe they were hacked and didn't know it and so I shouldn't be angry about being sold out. There must be a policy someplace on their website or something I guess.
- Blake
There is something on their membership management page, which should be overhauled in the next few months.
- kendrak
I did not name any names here this could be any association. ANY ONE.
- Blake
Well ONE ASSOCIATION I KNOW LOTS ABOUT is upgrading their membership software RIGHT NOW.
- kendrak
Can't be SLA, because that is the Special Libraries (plural) Association.
- Joe Boone
This is why I like having a name that's easily misspelled. Makes it easy to know who to berate.
- Zamms
Someone in the early 80's told me that she always used different middle initials whenever she signed up for stuff, so she'd know who had sold her name.
- Betsy #TeamMonique
I tried the username+sekritword@gmail.com hack for a while, but some places wouldn't let you include the + sign and then I forgot which websites I'd done it with and which not.
- Deborah Fitchett
♫410 I Coach 'em Up♫, Deborah Fitchett, Sir Shuping is just sir and 12 other people liked this
We can have parallel snarky and non-snarky tracks, with prizes for people that guess which is which most often. Like arXiv vs. snarXiv.
- John Dupuis
I want to moderate the snarky track.
- Andy
Depending on the time, would like to come in too.
- aarontay
I think it should be at least 12 hours so that everyone can come!
- Megan loves summer
Maybe something like noon to midnight eastern time? That will be like 5pm to 5am UT. What is that in Australia or NZ or Singapore?
- Joe Boone
Midnight to noon in Western Australia!
- Megan loves summer
That sounds like a great idea
- John: Thread Killer
Will there be a dance party?
- Running Slow
The Dance Party will be in Third Life. [We have to invent this future.]
- Joe Boone
We also need an award to present, like the Shovers & Makers or something. And the trophy needs to be a cod slicer.
- John Dupuis
you people crack me up
- maʀtha
Andy can take on Third Life. He's a futurist.
- Running Slow
If I can't moderate, I do want to talk to everyone about 5D printing.
- Andy
We could call the Shovers and Makers award simply the S&M award. Leg lamp?
- Joe Boone
we tried that 15 years ago and it didn't work. count me in.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
I think that'd be 4am - 4pm New Zealand time. Give or take some daylight savings. Anyway, doable. I think we should have a session where someone Skypes in to someone with a Scopia connection to someone with Adobe Connect.
- Deborah Fitchett
Typical weekday, Friday, or a Saturday?
- Joe Boone
potluck!
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
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