I think it means stay away from rocky places and hawks. :p - Josh Haley

Perhaps it is comparing the precision and efficacy of focussed intentional force against wild unthoughtful force? Nature is devastating but it wastes so much energy for no specific end. A warrior can't do that. A warrior must husband their limited reserves of energy, use them wisely, and that way attain a goal with the least effort and best results. - Todd Hoff

good job Josh :D - vijay

I thought the same thing too Todd but still confused what "timing" has to do with this? - vijay

I think it means that a well timed strike or attack is a lot more efficient and effective than a massive assault - Alex Scoble

the rest of the quote explains it: "Thus, the momentum of one skilled in war is overwhelming… His potential is that of a fully drawn crossbow; his timing, the release of the trigger." - Carlos Ayala

so "speed" has nothing to do with this(in the hawk/crossbow's case)? - vijay

Speed would be a component of momentum and not timing, I think. - Alex Scoble

that's the confusion. the hawk breaks the prey's body cause of the force of the impact generated by its speed. what does 'timing' mean in this case? - vijay

mob mentality vs individual actions - Morgan Haley

The pebble is a lie. - Mattb4rd

Because the hawk has to time it's attack so it arrives at the right place and the right time...just like an archer shooting a bow has to time their attack...or a sniper shooting a rifle. - Alex Scoble

the rocks and torrential water are just doing what they have to do, caught up in the momentum of things. whereas the hawk specifically selected and attacked it's prey - Morgan Haley

I think he's just saying that while it's fine and dandy to be a destructive force, to be most effective, you also need to know when to unleash said force. - ronin

Timing is this sense I think is the intelligence and wisdom to apply just the right technique at the best moment which multiples the effect with the least wasted energy. - Todd Hoff

"timing their attack" - what is the right time hawks attack their prey? Isn't it like... see a bird, then swoop in and jam into them? - vijay

I think it's about how you use your resources and energy. You can destroy your big enemy by deploying huge armies (momentum) or use two spies and timed little attacks - directeur

Yeah, the hawk attacks effortlessly because it is doing so out of instinct and conditioning. A soldier must also be able to act in a similar manner. - Alex Scoble

But the bird doesn't swoop down and jam into it's prey. Watch a video of a hawk killing; it's accomplished through a series of perfectly timed movements fueled by its momentum. - Mattb4rd

in the full context of the statement it means the strategic power that is combined to achieve a goal. - Carlos Ayala

Hawks are multifoveal animals so they can track their prey without moving their heads and make fine adjustments once they determined when to attack. I assume momentum is how they make up for a low body mass. Since their prey is mobile and it takes time to build up momentum it's a constant feedback process that must take great skill. - Todd Hoff

I think that Carlos is right...that a successful attack has two components...momentum and timing and you need to combine them properly to meet your objectives. This can be applied to any situation really. - Alex Scoble

Alex, you can use only momentum in same cases too. Say you have a one million soldiers army, you will win a war against a village. That's obvious. OTOH you can destroy a big regime "scientifically" using strategy, timing, intelligence. In both cases you'll use some kind of force, it's all about how you deploy it. - directeur

I was wrong right from the start... there's more to the saying (which Carlos posted above). The whole thing put together makes sense and my confusion comes 'cause I thought hawks usually break their prey into two. It's not and to achieve that huge feat hawk has to time the bird to hit the prey at the right spot on the body. This is from the link Praveen DMed me just now --->- http://thethoughtfulwarrior.com/... - vijay

Yep, but sending the million soldier army against a village when they are away on vacation nets you nothing...you need to properly time your attacks to achieve maximum success. Also, for another counter example, sending your army to attack a village that is across a river when the river is surging will net you a huge loss of men and will make you vulnerable to attack elsewhere...Timing is critical. - Alex Scoble

or sending your million dollar army against a village that turns out to be 300 spartans luring you into an alley and you get exactly what this quote means, in reverse...of course. - Carlos Ayala

A more current real life example would be, putting a million dollars in to the market when the Dow was at 14k...That money would have ended up at something less than half of it's value...Selling your stock at the bottom was also a bad idea as you now lost the ability to make up most of your losses in the rally. - Alex Scoble

Sure, Alex! But do torrential water use "timing"? No. What Sun Tzu means here, imho, is that BIG power is not everything, what you can accomplish using huge means can probably be accomplished with timing and intelligence and less means. - directeur

Yeah, directeur...as Carlos said, you need both force and timing to be successful. So, we are in agreement. :) - Alex Scoble

Yes, I think we are :) - directeur

Hawk's gotta a small area of impact; torrential water hits you like .. a wave, a smothering push. - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

there are different ways to use power - Robert Higgins

momentum and timing are both important - Chris Heath

Ok, here's my go: This quote I'm presuming is from Sun Tzu's "Art of War" which is a guidebook on the tactics/strategies to succeed in war, as a metaphor it speaks of the necessity that success cannot be ultimately found solely in momentum(force), but also swift timing, and I'm sure there's more [he usually lists 5 factors(I read it back in the day] I interpret this quote, as it stands alone, to be saying strength or timing alone cannot guarantee success but is gained by a proper convergence of the two. - sofarsoShawn

you're right. - vijay

For me I don't view a comparison, perhaps its the translation. "When" just describes the different forces. In contrary, momentum and timing are both important. Although is is very light, the swift hawk uses momentum. - Robert Higgins

What is the metaphor for Afghanistan? - Robert Higgins

Robert “A kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life.” - WarLord

@Alex ++++ - Shevonne

Dudes: The object is not the moving object it is the Force and combined forces. The water and boulder thing. To get this thing going you of course need lots of moving water, this causes small rocks to move, them striking larger rocks, and ever larger ones till you have really big boulders moving. Kinda like engaging an Army. The hawk is driving their force in one direction between 60 and 90 miles an hour, the resultant force is delivered in one blow and it is effective when delivered. Morals - that which is taught is the army is a few small pressures applied until you have the boulders engaged, then watch out. The hawk lesson is this sudden accurate force applied to this one place wins if it lands where aimed. Neither force is bad, and both of them have a specific application and efficacious application - ThatDBD

Large and wide vs. narrow and precise. Both have their advantages : ) - Cole Jolley