Sign in or Join FriendFeed
FriendFeed is the easiest way to share online. Learn more »

Dave Gilbert › Likes

Berci Mesko, MD
Newest category of PeRSSonalized Medicine, the easiest medical information tracker application, will be out tonight: #Cardiology
Dave Winer
"Dave Winer was right about River of News style aggregators." Ta-dahhh! http://c.oy.ly/kchz
and also why the friendfeed real time updating is so 'cool' or whatever you want to call it - it does the same thing - it streams on by if you're watching or not - Chris Heath
I wrote this back in 2006 when Dave was pushing newsRiver.root: "Imagine going to a newsstand where every piece of news is separated by author or publication, then placed in envelopes which have descriptive labels attached. No one would read anything. That is where we are at right now." http://bit.ly/NLKMR He's been right for years! - NM
Robert Scoble
Mike Arrington interviewed me and Paul Buchheit, co-founder of FriendFeed, on Sunday. Here's the interview: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
he cut you a lil short there Scoble...rather rude :) - Zee.
It's entertainment. - Robert Scoble
Is Buchheit a multi-millionaire? - Mark
Mark: yes. He was an early employee of Google. - Robert Scoble
I wish Arrington spoke more about the technology rather than the numbers. I felt the same frustration at Le Web. I'm curious as to what will happen to this platform as well as what, if anything they can reveal about plans with Facebook. - Michelle
What did you guys make for brunch? - just curious - Carolyn Wood
Carolyn: it was a catered affair. I had some watermelon, a muffin, and a couple of eggs. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
he needs 2 go back 2 the iPhone(myTouch doesn't do a gr8 job @recording)... couldn't hear much of the interview... though the powerset guys were loud and clear - @RelativeTheory
Jay Rosen
(After reading coverage of the Friend Feed deal...) If value is being captured upstream from where you are, just buy the dam and dynamite it.
nice turn of phrase - Bora Zivkovic
That's what going down, is it not? - Jay Rosen
Looks like it, absolutely. I was just admiring your use of language. - Bora Zivkovic
This calls for an open-source, federated, run-on-any-server alternative to FriendFeed that, like the Internets, cannot be owned (and disowned) by any single corporation. - Gary Burge
Agreed. I'm pretty pissed about this deal, actually. And I don't trust anything the participants say about it. Why do I--a proud citizen of the open web--care if a walled garden gets better at search? - Jay Rosen
Wave, rssCloud, Pubsubhubbub... this is the stuff to turn to eh? - Dave Gilbert
+1 PubSubHubbub (but I'm biased) http://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com - Brett Slatkin
I learned as much about the deal from this photograph as I did from the news coverage http://friendfeed.com/paul... Maybe I should Tweet that. - Jay Rosen
Yes you should - I also thought that picture (both of them together, really) was the most informative piece all day - Bora Zivkovic
Did you see the photos on Mashable of the empty FriendFeed offices this afternoon? http://mashable.com/2009... - Josette from fftogo
Jay Rosen
CEO of NPR is clear: they won't go paywall. She calls it a "mass delusion" in the news industry http://www.newsweek.com/id... (via @acarvin)
The new NPR site is really well done. Good interview w/ Schiller as well. - Ken Kennedy
When paywalls go up, the ones left standing will be orgs like NPR. Smart move on their part. - Matt M (inactive)
It really amazes me that the newspaper industry has so buried it's head in the sand and learned nothing from the other media outlets (chiefly the recording industry). It's really kind of sad that the entire industry really can't think, and find ways to innovate in the current realities of news. To me, it simply proves that the current news organizations will in fact die. Newspapers have... more... - Chad Albert
Some great quotes from the article, too: 'Frankly, if all the news organizations locked pinkies, and said we're all going to put up a big fat pay wall, you know what, more traffic for us.' -- Love it. - Ken Kennedy
A remarkably blunt statement, all the more so since she is a former NY Times digital executive. - Jay Rosen
Recall for back story the editor of the Financial Times claiming almost all serious news organizations will go with a pay model. We discussed it: http://ff.im/5jmCo - Jay Rosen
Two questions, which always occur to me when New Media critics roll their eyes and mock news publishers for wanting paywalls: 1). If not some form of subscriptions, what will work? (And the answer, unless you are a genuine "gravedancer" cannot be a variation of Clay Shirky's now-famous formulation:"Nothing will work." I'm looking for real, helpful suggestions.) 2. The alternative to... more... - Jason Pontin
"As senior vice president and general manager of the NYTimes.com, Vivian Schiller presided over one of the industry's best-read Web sites..." Her words:."I am a staunch believer that people will not in large numbers pay for news content online. It's almost like there's mass delusion going on in the industry—They're saying we really really need it, that we didn't put up a pay wall 15... more... - Jay Rosen
NPR has subscription revenue AND $200+ million courtesy of Joan Kroc. Who needs a paywall when you have a moat of cash like that? - Alan Mairson
I don't get it. IF Vivian Schiller is correct, IF it's a delusion, IF "people will not in large numbers pay for news content online," how does the $200 million Joan Kroc gave to NPR alter that equation for the news organizations planning to charge? She may be wrong in her interpretation of history, her predictions about user behavior may be off, but I don't see what the $8 million to $10 million in income from the endowment has to do with the situation for the news companies she's referencing. - Jay Rosen
Agreed, Jay. Schiller estimates in that very article that the endowment (currently about $258M according to Wikipedia) would need to be $8 _billion_ to fully support "the operating budget of a large national-international news organization". 3.5% of that total in the bank is fantastic, but it doesn't make NPR magically immune to financial considerations. - Ken Kennedy
Annual newsroom budget for the NYTimes is about $200 million. - Jay Rosen
... My point: NPR has a business model that doesn't require a paywall—and that business model includes more Joan Krocs. The Washington Post & countless other papers don't have that option. - Alan Mairson
Okay, they don't have that option because no one gave them a $200 million endowment. Message received. I heard you the first, second and third times you made this point, Alan. Full stop. And how does that point bear on the question of whether users will pay for online news? I must be really thick because I STILL don't get it. - Jay Rosen
Well, Jay, I guess you didn't hear the other part of my message, which I've also repeated multiple times: paywalls are a "delusion"; paywalls are a "mass delusion." People won't pay for (most) content. Vivian Schiller is right. We agree with each other. Full stop. Everything okay thus far? .... Good. Now here's the second point: Listening to Vivian Schiller dismiss paywalls is like... more... - Alan Mairson
No, I'm sorry, it isn't. You must be referencing other listeners who, you are speculating, will not be convinced by her arguments because NPR has an endowment, so it's "easy for her to say." So who will they be convinced by? Bloggers with no skin in the game? http://tr.im/u7Ta Steve Yelvington? (career newspaper man) http://www.yelvington.com/node... Jeff Jarvis, who is now seen as an... more... - Jay Rosen
Who is the right messenger? The *current* VP for nytimes.com or the publisher of the Washington Post—because Vivian Schiller, like the bloggers you reference, no longer has any skin in the paywall game. She escaped a horrible situation at the Times—a great career move for her. But she's like the poor girl who marries rich—and then bad mouths all her old friends back home in the projects... more... - Alan Mairson
Absolutely: one's position and investment in the media system should affect how we read and interpret that person. Anyone who says Clay Shirky knows nothing about the media business is behaving like a clown, yes. By your own testimony the statement isn't true. "Can you believe that everyone isn't doing what Google is doing" doesn't describe anything I have said. Nor have I said that... more... - Jay Rosen
Thanks, Jay. - Alan Mairson
Also, http://twitter.com/jayrose... ... "I am myself STRONGLY in favor of having pro journalists who get paid to do great work full time, and I consider them essential to the nation." - Jay Rosen
Alan, I hear your point...but saying "Who is the right messenger? The *current* VP for nytimes.com or the publisher of the Washington Post" --- when that happens, they debate is over. That's like saying that until the opposing viewpoint agrees with me, my argument isn't valid. - Ken Kennedy
In addition, I think the comparison of Schiller to a poor girl who married rich is a bit disingenuous. It's a valid decision to vote with your feet. If her analysis of the situation was that that the NYT wasn't moving from its delusional decision (that charging for commodity news is a good idea), and NPR seemed like a better fit and a more enlightened place to work...calling her a gold-digger is pretty unfair. - Ken Kennedy
aside from the debate over who should be taken as credible in the discussion, isn't much of the newspaper's problem generating subscribers a result of sheer overcapacity? I counted the number of 'original' stories in my local paper this morning: 27% by number. Even less by column inch. If 73% of the news in a paper is syndicated, why would anyone pay for it multiple times and in an... more... - jeff hammond
@jason_pontin, the solution re:news media "pay wall" is here: http://businessmindhacks.com/post... - Alex Schleber
Ken - If Katherine Weymouth says "paywalls are nuts," then the debate would be over ***at the Washington Post***. But it wouldn't end the industry-wide debate. Everyone would wait & see if the WaPo could make it work. See: TimesSelect. ... And yes, of course it's valid to vote with your feet. But sitting at the New York Times and saying "paywalls are delusional" is a negation, not a... more... - Alan Mairson
P.S. (I wrote this in a comment last night, but I accidently deleted it) As Jay knows, I was, until recently, a writer & editor for National Geographic magazine, the official journal of the National Geographic Society. When Joan Kroc dropped $200 million on NPR, you could hear the Society's foundation & grants people groan: "Why not us??" I think it's because National Geographic's... more... - Alan Mairson
I saw the comment last night, Alan. I'm not disputing your industry chops. *grin* - Ken Kennedy
@Alan: wrt your comment, "And to call NPR "enlightened" is to suggest that the NYTimes is not." -- I didn't say that...I [edit] said that, to Schiller, NPR (might) "[seem like] a better fit and a more enlightened place to work". WRT this situation (news as commodity), I'd stand by (ie, agree with) that statement, based on what I know. Also, my point there was that your gold-digger comment was harsh, not that the NYT was a bad, evil place. - Ken Kennedy
@Ken: FYI - I wasn't trying to establish my "chops" - just wanted to share a story that highlights the problem most newspapers & magazines will have emulating the NPR model. (If anyone could come close, it would be a non-profit like National Geographic. But, as I mentioned, I think Rupert & Co put the kabosh on that strategy. I hope I'm wrong, but NGS has been doing the foundation &... more... - Alan Mairson
Wow. 49 likes. Definitely an outlier in the "likes" department. Wonder why. :-) - Jay Rosen
Liking is a lot easier than paying! - Jim Norris
Coming in late, but... the NYT could only get 225K online subscribers during the paywall era to cough up $50 each. To me, that suggests that even if people haven't yet thought of any good, non-advertiser alternatives to paywalls, paywalls themselves won't work. - Andrew C (✔)
If I understand Jay's argument, we are in agreement, for once. (I put aside his reflexive and unhelpful personal invective - "clown," etc. - as a feature of his prose style.) I don't get Vivian Schiller's point, either. People *are* paying for NPR's content - in the form of small donations by the millions of dollars, in large endowments like Joan Kroc's, and in some (dwindling)... more... - Jason Pontin
OTOH, Cook's Illustrated has 260K subscribers to their online site ( http://www.37signals.com/svn... ), but then again that's a very different business in all sorts of ways... - Andrew C (✔)
original article is a great read. - Chieze Okoye
@Alan...no worries! I did actually, first pass, misunderstand your NatGeo point. I hear what you're saying there. Also glad we've connected...you're posting some interesting stuff. @Andrew...the Cook's Illustrated comparison IS relevant, IMO, b/c as you note, they're different. The value that people are paying for is about as far from "news [or food, in this instance] as commodity" as... more... - Ken Kennedy
Too bad NPR is so obviously biased. Nothing says "tax revolt" like our tax dollars supporting liberal propaganda. >.> - David C. Cooper
Jarvis with a word on this article http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009... - Jay Rosen
Naxos
RT @TheProfitMentor “He who has a why to live can bear with almost any how."---Friedrich Nietzsche
Jay Rosen
I think we all know the broadcaster most likely to pull a Cronkite by breaking the frame and taking a stand is Jon Stewart http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
Jay Rosen
Not sure we have a name for what Dobbs did: when you change a fact back into the controversy it was before it was verified that's called...?
How about coining a new word & calling it a Dobbism? Kind of like a Friedman Unit. But lamer. - Anika
from @MacFaux Obverscation? Rectocon? Dethenticate? "H - Jay Rosen
Julian Darley
at bbc prom 9 in albert hall waiting for first piece - moeran's symphony in g. hall is gorgeous. atmosphere warm.
Dave Winer
People seem pretty impressed with this cycle: http://www.flickr.com/photos...
Kate O'Neill
http://twitpic.com/57zjh - The Burger King cashier actually undercharged me to avoid charging my card the cost of the devil
http://twitpic.com/57zjh - The Burger King cashier actually undercharged me to avoid charging my card the cost of the devil
Naxos
RT @rossfaulder Spinoza saw that if a falling stone could reason, it would think, “I want to fall at the rate of thirty two feet per second”
Robert Scoble
Arrington and I disagree on future http://m.kyte.tv/ch...
Arrington and I disagree on future  http://www.kyte.tv/ch/6118/401143
word up. - john erik metcalf
I'm writing a post about this. Arrington believes that Twitter has won and that this is a winner take all market (the microblogging world, that is). I explain why this game has only just started. - Robert Scoble
Gillmor Gang:http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/2009... Arrington's points here have me disagreeing with him. - Robert Scoble
Agree a lot...want will be needed is to have the babble of all real-time web information being filtered by a core set of people that I trust...I need a service that says..."from all the noise that is out there right now..the people that you trust think the following is important...the following is funny...the following is bunk etc... - Mike Aikins
if you can't dominate the market, redefine it. - MikeAmundsen
The majority of the "big bloggers" that I've read over the past week (esp re: FF beta) I think that most of these guy have got the whole thing wrong. The tech market is never a "winner take all" thing. It a winner takes the current level, but then we bring it all up to the next level There was IBM, then Mircosoft, then Google, now (Twitter, FB, FF?) -But what's after that? And like Microsoft grew from the relationship w/IBM who grows from this market? - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Mike, can't you do that now: e.g. friends:justinlong likes:20 or some such? - Justin Long
I agree Robert. The argument Arrington is proposing is similar to the search engine wars of the mid-90s, with prognosticators stating that Altavista was the search engine. - LPH™ and his dog P™
Nicholas, I wouldn't count him out yet. For me personally his credibility / level of influence is rebounding. And it doesn't matter so much if his opinion is wrong. A-listers don't need to be right from the start. They just need to start conversations. - Bruce Lewis
Bruce: Arrington once told me he's an entertainer. As long as everyone is paying attention to him he's going to do just fine. - Robert Scoble
While I started out in micro-blogging on Twitter and also found it a great service during Australia's recent bushfires for volunteering, I wouldn't call it the be-all-and-end-all. After all, one period of unexpected downtime on twitter had me looking at the new beta here on FF. And this morning, I'm even looking at jaiku and identi.ca. Who says Twitter's won? - George Hall (Australia)
I stopped paying attention to Arrington last year, but I'm starting to pay attention again now. Something good happened in Hawaii. - Bruce Lewis
we all here? - Nick
Nick, I'm here. - Robert Scoble
That picture is priceless. - Pat Hawks
well hi, then. I don't think ppl will move to ff the same way they didn't pick up on pownce, which (a year ago) was (already) better than twitter in terms of feature-set — it had photos, content, an air app, etc. - Nick
the key for the survival of sites like Friendfeed is not try to compete with Twitter, but to do things that Twitter doesn't. This is not a winner take all situation. - Kim Landwehr
sorry, i missed that (on kyte). how do you use office w/ google docs? - Nick
Nick: if someone sends a Word Doc to my Gmail address I can open it up in Google Docs. - Robert Scoble
John: sounds a lot like Twitter/friendfeed, huh? - Robert Scoble
Robert: Unless its a .docx format....? - Justin Long
I'm sure the issue for FF isn't search. Search isn't the first reason for users to get their friends in a specific service. People go to Twitter because Twitter is the place to go. People went to Hotmail because others were on Hotmail. Now, and only now, people realize that Gmail is better. Unfortunately, it took years for Gmail to emerge. I guess people will learn how to use the real time web on Twitter and 5 years later, they try to optimize their usage with FF. Years. - Jérôme
Justin: probably not, but those should be even easier for Google to read. - Robert Scoble
Wouldn't you think people would go where the majority of their friends are? I'm kind of divided between FB and Twitter. I wish more of my friends used FF but... - Justin Long
Robert: 1) I agree totally w/ twitter being an entirely useless way of finding ppl of value — ie it's good for following existing celebrities, and may even be O.K. for finding local randomers, but no good for finding services of value (those most likely to advertise in a highly targeted online setting!) 2) I take ALL my school notes on gdocs and i wish i could mass export just to be safe - Nick
Jerome: right. But now friendfeed will be the place to go. Why? Because I can send you a link to something of great value. - Robert Scoble
If I look at my geeky friends, they all try to "manage" Twitter, and still refuse to get lost on FF (the Twitter for "advanced" users). - Jérôme
Jerome: two years ago all my friends told me that Twitter was the lamest thing they'd ever seen. - Robert Scoble
Then they all shifted when more of their friends got onto it. - Robert Scoble
See, that's what I think: the center of gravity isn't features, but friends. You have to have people in order to have substantive conversations. You go where you have a preexisting pool of sharers. - Justin Long
Unless you have enough "pull" to be able to go into a new service and bring a bunch of people with you... like Scoble...? - Justin Long
Robert: so they should have left Hotmail for Gmail once they knew Gmail had big storage, good search, threads, etc. My friends and family all know that Gmail is better, but making the change is psychologically hard. Now, the problem in social networks is that leaving Twitter or adopting FF means you've to move your friends with you. That's not the case for webmail and that's why I'm concerned about FF's future. People may admit that FF is better, but it will take years before they move. - Jérôme
Scoble: do you think it is meaningful to compare the live feed on YOUR account to that of the average user? I dont think ANYONE else has numbers similar to yours in terms of updates/minute (or even /second) - Nick
Wish there was a way to better integrate Twitter's stream into Friendfeed... so that you could see both streams and update them... that would make it easier to migrate to FF! Maybe so you could see your twitter stream but no one else could unless you happened to comment on something or like it?? - Justin Long
Jerome: right. This is why Twitter has won. The first inning of this game. - Robert Scoble
Nick: I used to be the only one following 1,000 people on Twitter and everyone made fun of me. Now that is a common thing to see. - Robert Scoble
Robert: but Twitter is your friends' first Twitter-like service. People are still learning how to use it. I'm sure FF may be the next winner, but in years. And in months, Twitter will probably have launch likes and comments. Then, what would be FF's raison d'être? Why do you think you'll want to stay on FF? You've already said that you go where your audience is... - Jérôme
I didn't realize how bad Twitter was at searching until recently. That's why I've migrated to FriendFeed as well. The 140-character message is similar to the traditional Unix bias toward flat files. It works for simple uses, but if you need metadata, you have to use more elaborate methods. FriendFeed is analogous to a relational database. - David Delony
Jerome it took Twitter three years to get to 20 million and be considered a "mainstream success." - Robert Scoble
FriendFeed has a character limit, too. It's just more than 140 is all. I would have predicted the "Disqus" and "Intense Debate" type service would be dominating the borader conversation by now... I would have been wrong. - Matt Shaulis
Matt: metadata on friendfeed does NOT take away from friendfeed's size, though. On Twitter typing "RT: " takes away four characters and typing tags takes away even more. - Robert Scoble
Robert: It's good for everyone though. It prevents rambling, hyperbole, and bloat. It has not prevented text messaging from becoming a global craze... - Matt Shaulis
Why is Twitter a mainstream success? Because of how it was used in certain cases and what sort of publicity it got by those cases. Mumbai, the Hudson River plane, Australian bushfires. FriendFeed can get the same sort of thing, all it needs is imaginitive use of FriendFeed capabilities in a crunch. The added bonuse of aggregation greatly enhances its use in such cases, too. Do it properly, Friendfeed will hold its own. - George Hall (Australia)
What takes more time and resource: implement FF's features in Twitter or gain Twitter's number of users? I love FF, but without a big promotion push from its community, I fear that FF will never go mainstream. - Jérôme
George: But FriendFeed lacks a cute name meaning the "bubble headed bleach blondes" will not like saying in on the air. ;) hehehe - Matt Shaulis
Jerome: I guarantee that in two years (Twitter is two years older than friendfeed) we'll be talking about friendfeed and not Twitter. - Robert Scoble
I agree something like Friendfeed will be more interesting, certainly. - Dominick R. Brady
what makes twitter a mainstream succes is the cases that goerge mentions PLUS the mobile aspect FF weill never get there until I can have it on EVERY mobile devices - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
How boring is it to say "I posted a FriendFeed message" versus "I Tweeted" .... Come on... it might sound silly, but it's marketing 101. The media and the glitterati will not adopt FriendFeed because it's not "fun" to talk about. (Not to mention, it is confusing to average people and will only get moreso.) - Matt Shaulis
guruvan: what if every mobile device becomes a clone of the iPhone? That's where it's headed. - Robert Scoble
I tend to agree. I am already really into this new version- even being in beta. - Chris Parton
Matt, all its missing is a cute little mascot. The name's good enough...and cute enough...but it needs something visual. Mascot, visually identifiable immediately. Something that stands out in the minds of a bubble-headed bleach blond. Hmm, do bleach-blonds HAVE minds? - George Hall (Australia)
Matt: fair enough. Twitter has a fun attitude. - Robert Scoble
Robert: don't you think there's going to be legacy TXT for a while though? - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
WOW, scoble. that's a bold statement. i have a hard time believing that. they just dont have the brand equity - john erik metcalf
but yes the clone of the iphone is for real - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
George: yes yes yes.. the mascot too.. all the way. Great point as well. - Matt Shaulis
John: so did MySpace two years ago. - Robert Scoble
twitter is becoming a household name. - john erik metcalf
@Matt and George. Marketing is FF problem right now. Media coverage, for sure, name maybe. - Jérôme
John: so was MySpace two years ago. Twitter is only used by 10 to 20 million. Facebook is 200 million. If Twitter's success means anything then it shouldn't even exist. - Robert Scoble
Medai coverage + Name + Mascot + Etc. == Marketing - Matt Shaulis
Matt: Financial Times is writing about friendfeed on Monday. And so it starts. - Robert Scoble
friendfeed could easily become a household name too if there were 50 different clients to meet everyone's different wants and needs for friendfeed - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Even google figured out android needed a visual mascot. It's worked, too, for linux, having Tux the penguin. Twitter has the bird and the fail whale. At the moment, we have the incredible Scoble, but due to similarities with the Hulk, we have copyright and trademark issues there. Other suggestions? - George Hall (Australia)
Rob: friendfeed is simplifying its API to get more people to be able to write for it. Twitter's API is so simple even I could write an app for it. Friendfeed's API is far more complex. - Robert Scoble
Robert: LOL @ Financial times.... hehehe... I suppose it is a start... but it's no Tonight Show with Jay Leno. :-D - Matt Shaulis
Ellen and Jay talked about Twitter for a good 2.5 minutes - Matt Shaulis
Matt: In a year Ellen and Jay will need to talk about something else. - Robert Scoble
Robert: my gut tells me that if that is true, it won't be FF. It will be something newer. But yes... Google will soon buy Twitter which means it is getting shelved and we will all have to move on. - Matt Shaulis
Matthew broke FF. - Rochelle
Speaking of third-party stuff and API's, the iphone clients for Friendfeed need some work. Too much crashing in motherfeed and and Nambu - George Hall (Australia)
Robert: agreed re: twitter api simplicity...I think I could do it too. Eager to see easier ff api and more clients esp mobile ones....then I can get tons of people to take it everywhere they go....then people will really be engrossed in their phones walking thru traffic ;) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Matt: there will probably be something new that +I+ will be onto, but I usually look for the newest and best way to do something. - Robert Scoble
Well, Jive.ly's certainly not it! - Chris Parton
Chris: when I see it I'll probably talk about it here all day long and get everyone pissed at me. :-) - Robert Scoble
Facebook seems to be doing alright without a cute name or mascot. - Bruce Lewis
Bruce: so does Microsoft and Google and Amazon. - Robert Scoble
And Seesmic seems to fail with a good name AND a cute ratoon :) - Jérôme
You sure Microsoft's success isn't because of Clippy? :-) - Bruce Lewis
And remember Microsoft's Windows emblem? That's practically a mascot/trademark instantly identifying it - George Hall (Australia)
Google has also its Clippy, it was for Google Docs, to make it mainstream :D http://blogoscoped.com/archive... - Jérôme
I try to jump out on Seesmic every now and then; I want to get into the video interaction but it always seems like the same 15 people are out there. Like a big video conference on odd topics - Lou Paglia
seesmic is certainly trying to branch out and make more interaction happen - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Hey, i started on Seesmic this week...it's actually quite good. I like it more than Tweetdeck. It's only let down in one area, the userlists. As groupings, they're too static. Tweetdeck lets grouped friends be a column that's actively updated. Other than that, it's superior to Tweetdeck. - George Hall (Australia)
Patrick: thats actually why I like FF so much...as I get better and better at it it relieves the fatigue by aggregating my content and republishing it for me - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
George: I am a huge fan of peoplebrowsr ....way more powerful than anything I've used ....better than tweetdeck for sure - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I think the aggregation makes people more voracious -especially when they see how it reposts to where THEIR friends are. If friendfeed were to be able to repost stuff to Facebook as well as twitter it would be a SMASH hit - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I think that, as I grow more and more into social apps, FF grows at a comfortable pace with me. But that's just me +shrug+ - Chris Parton
Chris: good point...I think people are generally comfortable with the pace on facebook (and myspace and similar) and they're just becoming comfortable with the pace on twitter - the pace on friendfeed is a little more hectic even still (omg with the realtime feed even more so) and will take some getting used to for people, but they will.. Especially if FF develops the outbound feeds...out to twitter is good, but it needs to go to where the people have their friends ....whereever that is - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I don't know my history too well, but in my limited time following you, you guys don't totally agree too often :) - Bwana ☠
Very good points. I feel as though I have outgrown many of the other services and am ready for a fluid and fast-paced real-time entity. Also, my FF doesn't seem to be posting to Twitter haha! - Chris Parton
100% agree - if everything feeds into everything else, in the end it may just be a question of interface / controls. Friend Feed is well on its way to being a streamlined interface for both Twitter and Facebook at the same time with all the relevant meta data. An interface, that I personally prefer. But, ultimately, agreed we are in the stone age and this is barely started much less over! P.S. Love the edit feature : ) - JP Maxwell
Chris: I bet if you tried to hit their website youd get you a failwhale...doubt its on FF's end ;) -----and I agree about out growing the others...but my friends have not, so I still use them...but more and more, as a way to get stuff into FF - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Robert's goin' Green! Ahhhhh! - Charlie Anzman
Bwana: lol! probably not, but which guys are you referring to? - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
And how fun would the discussion be if everyone agreed on it all....little mutual lovefest and that's it heh. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I was referring to Arrington and Scoble - Bwana ☠
My extended family is set up to get a weekly FriendFeed summary by email. It doesn't get more comfortably paced than that. - Bruce Lewis
Again, just so right on w/ Twitter being just the beginning. When you introduce something new to a group of people previously not exposed to it, often the simplest thing wins at first. It is only once the adoption has occurred that people start wanting more. The simplicity becomes limiting and people demand this or that, but you never could have started out with it all. - JP Maxwell
And the internet itself is founded upon the idea of using the simplest thing as the base layer and then building onto that base....FF build well onto the simplest layers like twitter - being able to like and comment on tweets over here is a great addition...but still leaves twitter as an important piece - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Laying down the gauntlet. The drama!!! - sofarsoShawn
Robert, true, the game has just started and we do need better filters, but there is nothing stopping Twitter from implementing some of the same features we see on Friendfeed, Facebook and more. Threaded conversations and a like button do not constitute barriers to entry. - Erick Schonfeld
Can someone please tell me how either of these startups are going to make money? Please? - Bwana ☠
which startups? - wannagot
Erick - twitter has only just got its service engineered to handle it's existing features, whereas FriendFeed has been built as a well maintained scalable infrastructure right from the start. I wouldn't underestimate FriendFeed's technical lead - it may be larger than Twitter's user-base lead. Not to mention the fact they'd have to lead their user-base perhaps unwillingly. - Robin Barooah
google wasn't first, but they had a great idea and incredible execution. FF might have the same effect on soc-net. - MikeAmundsen
Robert I agree with you 100% on the value of the "meta data" aspect of FF. I'm not so sure that advertising isnt already viable on twitter. Google adwords functionality integrated into the side bar of twitter would be much more targeted than the google content network. So even on a basic level it is viable. I agree that it could be much more. Google can just sit back and integrate into any or all existing social networks. The myspace deal paid of in much the same way. - James Ketchell
Ewww, Cheyenne yo you do know he's married. - sofarsoShawn
That is true. - sofarsoShawn
correct...current state of information is chaos, jumbled mess...need organization...ff is a start - Michael
Alasdair: advertising is a $300 billion a year business. THAT is why I concentrate on it. - Robert Scoble
nice - the difference between *THE* answer and many solutions. It's just what solutions dominate, what ends up being a robust niches and what dies (and it's an ever shifting playing field in this case). - Stuart Miniman
FF FTW!! :) - Susan Beebe
the metadata angle to the discussion on twitter versus FF/FB is an interesting one. for first time users harder to grasp; on the other hand richer metadata structures make it indeed much easier to really filter the information; not only for directly using FF, but also for third party engines building on top of FF API's - Jeroen De Miranda
Alasdair: Advertising is far from dead. Just because you're not a fan doesn't mean the rest of us are not. The truth is advertising is prevalent in our society because we need it. You need to know where those people, things, services and such are. The best of anything goes to waste if no one knows about it. The key to advertising, though, is to deliver it to you in such a way that you like it, and is relevant to you. Most current media doesn't allow for that. Social medial advertising does offer potential. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Who cares what Arringtoin says? Last week he said Google was buying Twitter - paul mooney
I think twitter has much more metadata capability than we see on the surface. A good search correlation algorithm could take temporal and spatial metadata as weighting vectors; more weighting vectors: indexing + analyzing link targets (and their metadata), retweets, replies, follows, tweets sources, and the kicker indexed RSS feeds from the top N news/info/media web sites, etc. Correlate a search term against these vectors and self-tune using user rating. $.02 - Ankush Narula
I disagree with you on so many things, Robert, but I watched this video, and you make excellent points. I do believe you're right. - Stan Scott
Get arrington to set up a realtime private room for techcrunch staff - Christian Burns
This is the future speaking: you are both wrong. - Todd Hoff
The meta data and "likes" you are describing that is the advantage of friend feed is reminding me of what Plurk is trying to do. I don't like it over there, and I'm trying to figure it out over here on Friendfeed. Maybe when you have 19,000 subscriptions FF makes sense, but for the little guys, it's not so transparent. - Peggy Dolane
Twitter's victory will be short-lived and potentially Pyrrhic. It's a cool toy everybody can play with but not a great tool for serious users. I still can't see it paying for itself over the long run unless as a data collecting device for Google. And the best point: all the metadata is currently within the 140 characters. And apps not limited to 140 characters are so obviously more useful. - The Web's Wendell Wittler
Definitely love Robert's calling out of Mike at the end. They're both nice, smart guys, and I'm glad we have a system (the Internet) where they can discuss this for all of us to see, and discuss with them/each other as well. - Tyler Hayes
hint you on the next challenge: Servers will distributed into multi-region server farms management that somehow will focus on local activities but still synchronized with primary server farm.... That would be how megatons of meta data will be delivered seamlessly without causing too much traffic collision and bandwidth waste... I think.. - Pico Seno
I finally understand the value Robert gets out of FF, and it's because he can easily pool lots of useful metadata (likes, links, comments) to each of his own posts out of the vast trove of friends. For the rest of us, there's the live feed, which works better on Twitter than FF. I still think that in the future, we will all be Scoble though and have gadzillion more friends. - Prokofy Neva
Steve Gillmor
This post is pure poetry: Powerful language combined with powerful truth, packaged with a bit of reader suspense, all intended to be thought-provoking. - Karoli
Steve's right. The embargo is encouraging me to take the time to really enjoy this new UI before all heck breaks loose tomorrow. What's worse is I'm flying to San Antonio, so won't be able to test out all the new features with everyone tomorrow. - Robert Scoble
I love how he said Journalists, Technologists, and "Robert Scoble"...doesn't that make you feel different Robert... - Ahmed
I'm trying to find a way that all those words couldn't apply just as well to something like 4chan. I'm not having much success. - Richard Lawler
The music of the post sets the expectations even higher. - Warner Crocker
Reading it again after the fact makes it even better. :) one of stevegillmor's finest - Karoli
It's those Beatles analogies. They work best in this post:-) Steve is writing really well lately. - Francine Hardaway
Robert Scoble
I am getting heck from some for complaining about poor service. I forgot that social media is now about pushing press releases to your followers. Screw that!
If you get what you consider to be poor service, then I feel that you're entitled to sound off about it,whoever it is... - Ian May
I'm not sure that you are complaining about poor service. You are complaining about service that is the norm and that doesn't meet your (in my opinion) inflated demands. Unless you have a roadside assistance plan with Toyota, they are not going to help you in an after hours situation. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I just think you're whining for no reason. There doesn't seem to be "poor service" involved. See my previous comments why. IOW, the onus is you to prove this "poor service" and I've yet to see it. - Anika
♥ the pic....life goes on, now doesn't it...? :) - Harold Cabezas
Not necessarily. This is social media being itself. People coming together from the social community providing input. I gotta say, I'm shocked that a Highlander went dead in a parking lot right after purchase. It's been one of the most highly rated light SUVs on the market. I agree that maybe it's been sitting in some port lot for weeks and the battery wasn't charged. Even then, it has... more... - Glenn Batuyong
full moon on friendfeed people! I'm tellin' you! - Jim: with more caffeine!
It truly is the way of the internet! - Dean Clark
Robert - Social media is about sharing your experiences...good or bad. I for one like to see what people like, and what people don't like. Experiences are subjective....Please continue sharing Your dislikes and likes. I certainly do. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
with great power, comes great responsibility - Ryan Stanley
It is also called life streaming- that means the ups and downs. I value the trusted voice because of the honesty of the entire experience. Keep on being you - the whole you. I appreciate your voice very much. - michael sean wright
I think it's logical to be very annoyed with Toyota over the problems with the car. Not as logical to be annoyed with them because they don't offer roadside assistance for free and can't deal with your issue after hours. They'll fix you up soonest tomorrow. I'd still be very annoyed though. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
What Alex said. Plus, you're blaming the brand and going on about how you wish you'd gone with another, despite the evidence that the brand you're blaming is among the best in class. - Ken Sheppardson
Matthew: I count at least two in this thread, plus the guy in the other one ;-) - Ken Sheppardson
Note to self: Use social media only the way Robert has intended. - Jason Kintzler
Here's what I do if I work for Toyota Corp or their PR office. 1) Find out where Robert is, 2) call a nearby tow truck company, 3) charge it to corp account, my personal acct, call my boss and use his acct, or call my boss's boss and use her acct. 4) Deal with the should we/shouldn't we stuff on Monday. - Dave Ferrick
Alex: they couldn't even tell me a number for roadside assistance. This was the WORST service I have EVER received from a car company. - Robert Scoble
Robert, SM is more than press releases and you have a right to microblog about your experiences. I was reading with curiosity as to how this will be resolved. - LPH™ and his dog P™
Ken: if this is best in class then I don't want to know what worst is like. BMW is a lot better, by the way. - Robert Scoble
Hyundai puts the number for Roadside Assistance on the back passenger window, so you never have to figure out what it is. They should all do that. - Mark Trapp
Robert: Best in class for reliability. I put the Consumer Reports scores in the other thread. I'm having a hard time keeping track whether you're upset because the car wouldn't start or you couldn't find the Toyota Roadside Assistance number and whomever you got in touch with didn't have it. I'm sure it'll all be clearer if/when you can write it up in more detail. - Ken Sheppardson
You also pay a huge premium for the upscale brands, Robert. If you wanted the BMW treatment you should have bought a Lexus or Acura. You still have the right to complain though, but the rest of us have the right to critique your complaint. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
The Toyota roadside assistance number wouldn't have helped you, Robert, unless you have a plan with them. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
What Alex Scoble said. - coldbrew
Robert: Toyota does not offer roadside assistance on new cars. - Anthony Citrano from BuddyFeed
Alex: Don't you think they'd have at least dispatched a truck, even if they wouldn't pay for it? BTW, the Lexus RX400h is equivalent of the Highlander hybrid, I believe. - Ken Sheppardson
I was mad about the service AFTER the breakdown. Absolutely crappy from two separate dealerships. Both gave me the same number on my manuals that said to call back tomorrow. - Robert Scoble
Alex: the Toyota was more expensive than our BMW. This is NOT a cheap car. - Robert Scoble
You are paying for the technology in this case, not the support. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Also Robert the CAR is best in class. Toyota makes probably the most reliable cars in the world. Of course this doesn't necessarily say anything about their customer service. In that regard, you can't expect Mercedes or Audi level ass-kissing. - Anthony Citrano from BuddyFeed
So the dealerships, where service are usually closed on Sundays, *both* told you to call roadside assistance and you decided to...post to FF instead? One good thing has come out of this. I am now curious to find that one dealership and/or car manufacturer where the service dept is open on Sundays. - Anika
Robert if you paid more for your HL than you would have for a comparable BMW or MB, my hat is off to the dealer who screwed you, ;) - Anthony Citrano from BuddyFeed
Anthony - LOL - Jeff (Team マクダジ )
Robert, maybe you should pass out "YOU'D BEST KNOW WHO I AM AND WHAT HELL I CAN UNLEASE ON YOUR BRAND!!!" cards whenever you purchase something. Then maybe you'd get the treatment you expect. That, or simply buy an AAA membership.:) - Dawn
Anthony, he has a 3 series BMW, not an SUV. Big price difference. - Jeff P. Henderson
Dawn: sorry, I forgot that the Internet is just for marketing yourself. Thanks for reminding me again. If this is how Toyota treats me well then I imagine they will probably be even worse to you. - Robert Scoble
"You still have the right to complain though, but the rest of us have the right to critique your complaint. - Alex Scoble" AND THIS is the crux of the beauty of social media. This is in fact how we all learn from each other and our experiences. This is what we would all do if we were to sit around with an upset Robert in the pub in the mall. He'd be bitching, and some people would think he's right, and some would think he's wrong. Eventually someone would tell us all to STFU or GTFO. Life in the Free World - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Anima: I called those numbers FIRST before posting. Glad you think this kind of service is acceptable. I don't. - Robert Scoble
"If this is how Toyota treats me well then I imagine they will probably be even worse to you." LOL Yeah, that's what I thought...you think you deserve special treatment because you have a large audience. Perhaps you do. But they probably don't even know who you are, hence my suggestion. - Dawn
I'm going to assume "Anima" is me. ROFL. My point is that service dept. are closed on Sundays. Period. When my car almost went over a cliff in the Hollywood Hills because a cable went wobbly, I didn't expect the dealership to be open. If you were concerned about Sunday service, maybe you should have inquired about it before signing the papers. But as I said before, we live in CA. This is needless due to our lemon laws. You can return the car, no questions asked and get another one from elsewhere. - Anika
If you have a poor experience with something you should raise heck. Nothing wrong with that. Otherwise these flaws don't get fixed for everyone else. Good work. - Thomas Hawk
Dawn: I don't ask for special service on the phone. But I will complain online. - Robert Scoble
I thought car service was 24 hour roadside assistance, it was with my Ford when I purchased it. I stopped my AAA due to the dealer deal of this roadside plan. I only had to use it three times, sadly in a matter of four weeks was towed three times. I cannot say enough concerning the fast service, hassle free rental on holiday no less. - Janet
I wasn't even asking for that kind of service. I just wanted someone to tell me what to do other than to call a number where there were no humans. - Robert Scoble
There are times when complaining is completely justified. Poor service is one of those times. And frankly if no one complained about poor service it would never get fixed. So, in essence, you're helping everyone out here. - Patrick Thornton
I'm not attacking you for complaining about poor service. But, I just don't think you are getting poor service I just think you are getting typical service from a car manufacturer on a Sunday. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
If it's a problem that these cars are DOA because of sitting around or whatever, I agree that they should have a special 7 day a week 24hour MANNED number to call for assistance. Of course you're going to get upset spending tens of thousands of dollars on a car that won't even start. New car owners should get special treatment for X amount of time, till everything gets broken in, you... more... - Dawn
You know what, there's nothing wrong with speaking your mind. Wouldn't be interesting if everything was sunshine and daisies. - Ruth Helfinstein
Mathew: if that's true then that explains a whole lot about why we hate car companies. And Toyota is supposed to be one of the best. - Robert Scoble
Dawn: exactly. This is for a car that is a week old. I don't even care about that, but the two dealers kept sending me to a number that didn't have a human on it. - Robert Scoble
Yeah, that would get me going, too, but *esp.* because it's just a week old. One of the main reasons you buy a new car is for reliability. - Dawn
I haven't read from the rest of this thread but I would just like to respond to Robert's main topic here: What the hell Bob? You're the biggest social media press-release whore there is. YAAAARRR - Mitch
You should calmly tell them that you want to be compensated for your inconvenience. They will likely grant you your wish, if you tell them what you want...like a free 6months of roadside assistance or a free oil change down the road, or whatever. Get specific. - Dawn
Dawn: good idea. But first they need to pay the $160 tow job. - Robert Scoble
That will make it even easier. "Here is the receipt for towing and I want X for my lost time and undue hardship." - Dawn
I do want to ask you Robert, why don't you have AAA? - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
Why even bother with AAA? Most makers offer excellent concierge services -- especially one in the Highlander price range. I don't see why the Highlander isn't included with Lexus service -- it's certainly more costly than the lowest model. Unless Lexus doesn't offer anything, too. - Mona Nomura from fftogo
Mathew: I've never needed it and I had roadside assistance with BMW and Saturn (and built in Onstar in both). - Robert Scoble
@Mathew™ for the same reason a lot of Mac users (like me) don't buy AppleCare. We don't usually expect our brand new systems to crap out on the second day. After all, aren't Macs (Toyotas) supposed to have legendary reliability? - Glenn Batuyong
Mona: because they were the sales floor. Who knows what I'd have gotten if I actually had tried roadside assistance. - Robert Scoble
A car and a Mac are two totally different beast. I don't care what kind of car you drive something is going to happen. It could be a flat tire, locking your keys in the car or your alternator going out. AAA just keeps you from having to spend a ton of money when the inevitable happens. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
@Robert Then I can understand why you didn't have it. I drive a 99' Ford Taurus with over 228,000 miles on it, so I need to have AAA. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
@Mathew™ then again, miraculously AAA seems to be MUCH cheaper than AppleCare. - Glenn Batuyong
Ugh. Seems like they should have at least offered to call for roadside assistance for you. When I had trouble with a new Mazda (and this was at 10pm) their first concern was to make sure I was safe and then they called a tow truck. They followed that up with a phone call to make sure the tow truck had arrived. Even if Toyota couldn't have it serviced for you, it seems like they totally dropped the ball in the customer relations department. - craterdweller
I doubt people subscribe to Scoble's feed to hear about your complaints with Toyota's customer service. So get back to the point quickly. If everybody starts whingeing through Social Media as much as you do then it is going to start getting really boring, Scoble! - Francois A.
Remember, that with your follower count, you can't please everyone. Go forth, and post about anything that darn well pleases you. Press release pushing? Pfft.. - Colin Charles from twhirl
If Robert can't get service, I certainly won't be able to. I'm personally very glad he shared this story. Toyota should realize that young families depend on their vehicles. No 24/7 number for emergencies? WTH? - Christine Cavalier
Christine: I think they actually had a number it's just that the people I talked with at two dealerships knew the number and I couldn't find it. - Robert Scoble
Steve Isaacs
Crocs Going Out of Business! There is a God! (via @mona) - http://www.manolith.com/2009...
Crocs Going Out of Business! There is a God! (via @mona)
Paul Buchheit
Goodbye Google | stopdesign (Douglas Bowman) - http://stopdesign.com/archive...
"When a company is filled with engineers, it turns to engineering to solve problems. Reduce each decision to a simple logic problem. Remove all subjectivity and just look at the data. Data in your favor? Ok, launch it. Data shows negative effects? Back to the drawing board. And that data eventually becomes a crutch for every decision, paralyzing the company and preventing it from making any daring design decisions. Yes, it’s true that a team at Google couldn’t decide between two blues, so they’re testing 41 shades between each blue to see which one performs better. I had a recent debate over whether a border should be 3, 4 or 5 pixels wide, and was asked to prove my case. I can’t operate in an environment like that. I’ve grown tired of debating such miniscule design decisions. There are more exciting design problems in this world to tackle." - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet
Also, I was the first "real" engineer at Google ;) (not really, of course) - Paul Buchheit
Has the decision making process been proven or is it simply an unquestioned assumption? - Todd Hoff
Wow, interesting read - that would suck, no wonder he left. - Susan Beebe
It sounds like a challenging environment for a designer, and it doesn't sound like it suited him, but don't those little details get magnified into significant effects when you are at Google's scale? Having said that, I don't love many of their designs anymore so perhaps there is something wrong. - Robin Barooah
Would it be trollish for me to say that FriendFeed seems to have this design-skeptical culture as well? Thanks for the link, btw. - Ethan Herdrick
great insight, enjoyed his website, IMO: Google's consistency across products increases usability over Yahoo, MSN....though ASK and Mahalo are very engaging now - shayne catrett
I've always found that grouping designers, usability people and coder together is sort of like playing rock paper scissors. - Dean Clark
Huge loss. I can feel his pain. - Andrew Smith
Not sure where the _debate_ comes from if they have the data and the culture of following it. Just put 3,4,5 pixel versions out and look for the one that works best. Strange. - xekc
I understand the frustration, but am also fascinated by the minute details analyzed by google. - RicardoSilva
Chris: There were several interaction and UI designers at Google prior to Doug's arrival, but he was the first person hired specifically to be a 'Visual Designer', with a focus on visual layout and style rather than the broader job of visual and interaction design. Lots of visual design was done before Doug's arrival, and continues to be done by the interaction designers, but Doug was... more... - Kevin Fox
"I had a recent debate over whether a border should be 3, 4 or 5 pixels wide, and was asked to prove my case."... Been there, still cringe at the thought. Nightmarish. - dario
Yikes. Those endless philosophic discussions...I could only hang in for a little bit and keep a straight face. Fun to come up with the stories, but once I realized people took it seriously, it just got creepy. Guess I knew it going in, but had to check it out. But, RE Google: I've always appreciated the simple, utilitarian approach that appeared to be focused on function as a central design feature. Thematic consistency across products would be nice, too. - ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
I read somewhere that he's gone to Twitter. Given that FF already has a great UX/Visual designer from Google, I guess Twitter was the next logical choice. - no name
Interesting juxtaposition of the above article with this http://friendfeed.com/e... - Shakeel Mahate
Agreed, Bindu. And from an artist's perspective, 3 or 5 pixels can make a real difference. Though I can understand that it's frustrating when the decision is someone else's and their rationale is from another perspective. But doesn't that go with the territory of design? At least Google has a process, not just going by moods. - Rebecca Lasley
There are so many projects at Google with really loose and creative design methodologies. Many of them would have been happy to have him on-board. I don't think Doug is being honest with us or himself when claiming that this was his only reason for moving to Twitter. - no name
Similar, but more lucid: http://adamhowell.org/2009... - j1m
I've been reading Donald Norman's "Emotional Design", and in it, he notes that where his previous book championed exhaustive usability testing and essentially design-by-committee (and he still stands by that), that is best for what he calls 'behavioral design'. By contrast, both 'visceral design' and 'reflective design' need something more in the line of a single designer with a vision. ... Also, thanks for that link, j1m. - Andrew C (✔)
I love these Google "inside baseball' discussions on friendfeed. - Zaki Manian
Obviously, there are crucial systems where every cycle counts, and very important pages where every shade of blue counts. What I'm saying is that engineering usually gets the autonomy to balance what needs to be measured and what just needs to get done. UI designers are always second-guessed, leading to frustration. Plus, UI design has a much higher emotional component, so everyone, managers included, think they understand it just because they feel strongly about it. And people revolt on Facebook. - Joey Liaw
Not everybody is Apple ! which excel on technology and Design Both. - KARR 4.0
Apple = Design Dictatorship, Google = Design Democracy, MySpace = Design Anarchy? - Lasse Johnsen
Apple is a dictatorship because, as far as i know, the one who always has the final word on design is Steve. Google is a democracy because they seem to base most of of their design decisions on user testing, so indirectly the users are choosing the design in a sort of democratic way. - Lasse Johnsen
Interesting input Chris, so its not as radical as i thought :) - Lasse Johnsen
My teams run these kinds of experiments (link color, etc.) and with all respect to Doug, data is just a description of reality. He implies data is a "crutch" used by people who "can't make decisions." No, data describes the effects of your decisions. The constraints of reality make good designers great. - Daniel Dulitz
This is sort of like watching McCoy argue with Spock. :-) If you guys are not familiar with Gerd Gigerenzer, I highly recommend the book "Gut Feelings." (http://www.amazon.com/Gut-Fee...) Malcolm Gladwell used some of Gigerenzer's research in the book "Blink." The gist of his research shows that two core beliefs held by our culture, and by... more... - Karim
Experts often make "gut decisions." The outfielder catching a pop fly does not solve a set of differential equations describing the trajectory of the ball. (Unless he works at Google?) The outfielder doesn't think much about it all. His brain *unconsciously* runs a simple heuristic (described in Gigerenzer's book) that allows him to be where the ball is going to land. If you asked the... more... - Karim
Data is a crutch in that if you're NOT an expert, you need to justify the decision; you have no idea which color to use. Depending on where you are on the autism scale (like Spock, or a lot of programmers), you might not be able to imagine what color OTHER people would like, so you depend on data even more. You end up making things that look like Android and saying "but it tested well... more... - Karim
The problem with experts is that 99% of them aren't any good. This is such a strange argument though that I don't know where to begin -- it's all straw-men. For one, I'm pretty sure there's no data showing that the Android interface is anything other than confusing :) - Paul Buchheit
Maybe the Android interface is a result of trying to minimize the risk of being sued by Apple. :) - Ray Cromwell
I hope I wasn't implying that there is something magical about the word "expert" -- experts can over-rely on data, too. Gigerenzer made that point by describing a contest in which the performance of stock portfolios picked by "experts" using massive amounts of data and complex criteria woefully underperformed a portfolio picked by a random hundred pedestrians in Berlin. The point is not... more... - Karim
There are day traders who rely on intuition and they end up losing big too. A better example might be Poker. :) - Ray Cromwell
Yeah, strange argument. Data is but a small influence on any but the most well-used interfaces; it's an optimization method, not an imagination method. I guess the real point is that Doug didn't feel that his imagination was valued or useful at Google, and that's sad. @Karim, the point of data is that it describes what other people like in ways that no intuition can determine, expert or no. It's like perspective in art. Good designers use the data they have or can easily get. - Daniel Dulitz
Daniel, I don't think it's a question of "using the data" so much as whether the data has *primacy.* With technocrats, the data always has primacy -- even if the data is wrong, misleading, applicable to novice users but not expert users, inaccurate, imprecise, incomplete, or statistically insignificant. And I'm not sure how Douglas was supposed to feel "valued or useful at Google" by... more... - Karim
I just wanted to point out that Android was designed by these people: http://www.tat.se/site... Notice that they're designers not engineers. - Adewale Oshineye
TAT came out of the Scandinavian "demo" scene. While it can be argued that demos involve at least as much as engineering (coding) as they do design, or that demo skills don't translate into interactive design skills, the point is not to criticize TAT. The point is to criticize the use of *data* (qualitative research) as the sole criterion on design decisions. Ignoring a chief designer's... more... - Karim
Karim, Doug never said _he_ was testing 41 shades of blue. I think primacy is a great way to look at it, and Doug's post takes aim at data's supporting role. Also, where did the "novices vs. expert" meme come from? Experts don't like it when their gut feelings end up being testable? The question is which gut feelings to test and which not to. - Daniel Dulitz
Daniel, I didn't mean to imply that Douglas was upset because *he* was the one who had to do the testing. The "novices vs. expert" thing was my way of describing expertly mastered skills, or automaticity. When you are really good at something, you can do it quickly, with a low error rate, and without *thinking* about it. When you are learning to drive a car, you burn a lot of CPU... more... - Karim
I agree that "the question is which gut feelings to test and which not to." Douglas' complaint made it sound as if *too many* gut feelings were being tested ("each decision," "every decision"), and I can see how that could suck the fun out of things. - Karim
I had a lot more to say than would fit in this comment box: http://fury.com/2009... - Kevin Fox
there is an interesting example in the case of recently announced picasa face recognition http://googlephotos.blogspot.com/2009... in comparing google's computational method for photo metdata with something like facebook where shared user entered data is the primary source - Mike Chelen
Andy
"Joey"
Jamin Guy
James on Software: Custom Protocols Considered Harmful: Thin & Rack are the Platform of the Future - http://jamesgolick.com/2008...
Julian Darley
Guardian Science: Keeping a diary makes you happier http://www.guardian.co.uk/science... Psychologists say writing about feelings helps brain regulate emotions
Chris Messina
10 Most Common Misconceptions About User Experience Design - http://mashable.com/2009...
10 Most Common Misconceptions About User Experience Design
"I asked some of the most influential and widely respected practitioners in UX what they consider to be the biggest misperceptions of what we do. The result is a top 10 list to debunk the myths. Read it, learn it, live it." - Chris Messina from Mento
Andrew Baron
FriendFeed Hits Nearly One Million Visitors; Grew Tenfold In The Past Six Months - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
FriendFeed Hits Nearly One Million Visitors; Grew Tenfold In The Past Six Months
Even with counter arguments, the growth is impressive. I've been surprised that ff has not taken over Twitter. Two contributing features to any lack of momentum might have to do with the barrier to entry on ff being too complex and the design being too cold. - Andrew Baron from Bookmarklet
And a third reason: a lot of dumb, unimaginative people. ;) - iTad
Andrew: one thing people forget is what a strong thing momentum is. Friendfeed is growing faster than Twitter did in it's first year but it will take time to catch it and that assumes things will remain as they are. - Robert Scoble
ha, I'm one of those at the very top of the chart - I just joined ff ;-) - Bob Walsh
What's complex? Comment - Like - Hide - they work intuitively. - Bruce Lewis
Joshua Schnell
iwork.com direct competition to google docs?
“iWork.com is a service for you to share with other people. You can notify other people that you’ve shared documents, and collaborate on them. They can review and edit documents online. - Joshua Schnell
giving a demo - Joshua Schnell
Paul Buchheit
wingsuit base jumping - http://vimeo.com/1778399
wingsuit base jumping
Play
Cools damn cool, but utterly utterly insane! - faulkner
intense! - Mark Schulz
whoa!! do not do this at home kids! - Susan Beebe
reminds me of the opening credits of "Heavy Metal" where the guy brings in a 1960 Corvette from earth orbit. :-D - Karim
I've seen this before, but where the heck do they land? And how? - Piaw Na
at the bottom with a chute - MiniMage
Every time this pops up I misread it as "wingnut base jumping." - Jim Norris
MG Siegler
Android netbooks on their way, likely by 2010 » VentureBeat - http://venturebeat.com/2009...
Android netbooks on their way, likely by 2010 » VentureBeat
Android netbooks on their way, likely by 2010 » VentureBeat
The image above shows a netbook Asus EEEPC 1000H running on Google’s mobile operating system Android. Huh? You thought Android was for mobile phones, right? Well, as we’ve written before, Google is planning to use Android for any device — not just the mobile phones. - MG Siegler from Bookmarklet
wow! - Susan Beebe
My husband would like this. - Anika
I wouldn't want Android on a Netbook in its current state - Bwana ☠
Kate O'Neill
How to Read Buildings: A Crash Course in Architectural Styles - http://www.amazon.com/dp...
How to Read Buildings: A Crash Course in Architectural Styles
Paul Buchheit
Paul Buchheit
filipino obama look alike - http://www.viprasys.com/vb...
filipino obama look alike
filipino obama look alike
Show all
I think we know what his next job will be... Either late night talk show or Secret Service decoy. - Andrew Smith
tank you por jour bote - Josh Haley
Josh, hahaha. That accent makes me nostalgic. My highschool gf was Philipino and I loved her accent. - The Fat Oracle
Has he sent his resume to SNL yet? - Jeff (Team マクダジ )
deeeee eemportahnt teeng ees dee change. deeee peepulz want dee change - Morgan
Jamin Guy
The Year in Internet Radio: CBS The Big Mover - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Other ways to read this feed:Feed readerFacebook