(dot)lizard kelly &rsaquo; Likes

Never found any noticeable difference between Budweiser and tap water, so I drink the latter, as it's much less expensive, and save my money for beer instead! - Ian May

Amen, Ian. - Mary Carmen

Why is Budweiser like having sex in a canoe? Because they're both fucking close to water! - (dot)lizard kelly

Mo Moore

I got nothing to say....yet! Just signed up, will get some stuff set up soon.

November 21 - Comment - Like - Share

(dot)lizard kelly and Rochelle liked this

Welcome! :) Come join the FF Beginners Group: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Rochelle

Excellent suggestion! - Dennis Jernberg

Hey buddy - Dennis! :) - Mo Moore

Thanks, Rochelle - I'm working on it! - Mo Moore

Reg Saddler (Zaibatsu)

rt @SaraMazur Did you know that smoking around your Apple computer can void your warranty? http://consumerist.com/5408885... #wtf

November 21 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

(dot)lizard kelly liked this

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML to See-ming's feed, FriendFeed Talk

Any good #iphone #friendfeed apps out there that's worth checking out? tried a couple (paid for them!) and didn't like either... #smlask

November 5 - Comment - Like - Share

(dot)lizard kelly and Mike Chelen liked this

Depends on what you want to do with it... - Kimber Scott

@Kimber.Scott and so I realized that the safari UI for iphone appears to be best...! - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

fftogo.com also works pretty nicely, though it isn't a standalone app - Mike Chelen

@Mike.Chelen Thanks. Will definitely check it out :) #smlthankyou - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

Robert Scoble

@stevefarnworth I think Twitter has major security problems. I'm hearing from a lot of people who say they didn't do anything and got hacked

November 11 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Mert Erkal and (dot)lizard kelly liked this

leslie

How the wolf ended up on the Falklands (he walked) - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...

November 7 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

(dot)lizard kelly liked this

Jack Russell

I need help. Trying to compile list of top 20 atheists, by no. of twitter followers. PZ and et.al are obvious. Who else?

November 6 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Crispy Sea and (dot)lizard kelly liked this

Karoli

twitter, you can't be serious. filtering retweets one person at a time? GMAFB

November 5 - Comment - Like - Share

ursi and (dot)lizard kelly liked this

wait, what? - (dot)lizard kelly

7 more comments

theyr'e rolling out the new retweet which discourages all conversation. you can choose which rts you want to see, by toggling the switch on each user. LOL - Karoli

that works for me some peeps too spammy - Mark Forman

Having to set the setting for each user is annoying. Seems like it's just like their device notification settings. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

well is there anything keeping us from using the old-fashioned DIY retweet? - (dot)lizard kelly

Mark, if you don't like spam you'll hate the new retweet. HATE IT. - Karoli

dotlizard, I suppose it depends on whether the twitter police are listening. but think about tweetmeme and the other RT metric measurements. If we don't play on twitter's playground, metrics go nuts. - Karoli

dunno haven't seen yet??? - Mark Forman

How're the twitter police gonna stop us from doing it however we want? - TxVoodoo

Victor Ganata

Sure, the early adopters will blaze the trails into the future, but it's the next wave of people who will lay down the actual roadbed. Leaders ain't nothing without followers.

November 2 - Comment - Like - Share

Alex Scoble and (dot)lizard kelly liked this

Didn't someone describe the four stages of a trend? leaders, early adopters, mainstream, and the trailing edge? One of the things I remember from that was that there were lots of cases where the bleeding edge types went that no one else ever followed them to. - Andrew C

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... ... apparently the mainstream ("majority") is big enough it deserves being split into early majority and late majority. - Andrew C

Admiral Anika

NEW RULE: You are only allowed to post things of interest to ME. I should never have to use my 'hide' button or be forced to scroll past your frippery. That way lies madness.

November 2 - Comment - Like - Share

Kevin Pedraja, MVB (Grinch of FF), Carmen and 38 other people liked this

NEW RULE ADDENDUM: You are only allowed to agree with me. If I say I like avocados, then YOU like avocados. If I say that red cars are ugly, then you too, feel that red cars are ugly. - Admiral Anika

18 more comments

OK -- make some requests. - Stephen Mack

Remember, these rules will make ANIKAFeed a much better community for us all. You're welcome. - Admiral Anika

Oh and remind me to get Paul and them to change the logo. Honestly. It's like they're not even paying attention. - Admiral Anika

How do we feel about blue cars? - Soup

I LOVE FRIPPERY - tinypants - Hagitha of FF

Battlestar Galactica was the crappiest show ever... don't you agree? - Adrian

Motion to overrule anika. Anybody second?? - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

Why is Roberto acting like this is an option? Now, I wish there was some way to block him. Too bad *that* feature doesn't exist here. *sigh* - Admiral Anika

Motion to re-educate Roberto. - Stephen Mack

Soup: Some blue cars are okay. I will give you a list of the shades of blue you like at a later date. - Admiral Anika

Motion without moving. - Josh Haley

Adrian: You miss the point. I don't want your opinion. I'm giving you mine and telling you how you should feel. 10 years of marriage to me, you should know better by now. Really! - Admiral Anika

Boy do I hope you like dick and fart jokes, otherwise I may have to close my account. - Joe Pierce

Huhh? I'm a badly trained puppy. I was reformulating my opinion based on your expectations... - Adrian

No, Joe. *YOU* better hope I like dick and fart jokes or I shall be forced to mock your fripperyness on a completely different site. TAKE THAT! - Admiral Anika

O.O - Joe Pierce

This is going to make everything so much easier. - s t e v e

*mumbles* no fair. that's, like, work. bother. sigh. *goes to delete account* - pea

There is no motion, only the warping of space-time. - Victor Ganata

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML to See-ming's feed, SML Universe, Ideas & Inspiration, Web & Teknoloji, RWW: The Future of Tech, OpenSourceWorld, TheNextWeb Forum

Using an open licence #video ie #creativecommons vs #copyright #open #law by @zeroinfluencer - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

October 31 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Véronique Rabuteau, atner, Michael W. May and (dot)lizard kelly liked this

"A lecture I gave about Creative Commons whilst at Channel4 TV. The audio was then remixed with animations from Ben Cormack. Note how C4 added a copyright notice at the very end. Sigh. The video is licenced by myself and Ben under CC-BY-SA. Feel free to rework it.. 'Original' version is available here: http://www.channel4.com/music......" - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML from Bookmarklet

Красиво! (CC) - atner

@atner Красиво! fyi Zeroinfluencer is also on FriendFeed. Subscribe to his feed at http://friendfeed.com/zeroinf... :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

ok - atner

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

Stefan Sagmeister: Yes, design can make you happy - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

October 31 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

(dot)lizard kelly liked this

i watched this right after you (live sharing on YT rocks!) -- amazing video. made me happy just watching it. - (dot)lizard kelly

haha live sharing?!?! hehe cool ;) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML to See-ming's feed, SML Universe, Social Media

9 out of 10 people #Facebook suggests to me, I usually know them. 9 out of 10 that #LinkedIn suggests to me, I usually don't!

October 31 - Comment - Like - Share

Victor Ganata and (dot)lizard kelly liked this

April Buchheit

"Blue Cross sent me a postage-prepaid postcard to send to my Senator opposing a Public Option" (PICS) - Democratic Underground - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss...

October 26 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Laura (hear me raura?), Michael Muller, Jay Cuthrell and 98 other people liked this

"So I'm using Blue Cross's postage to send MY message. Thanks Blue Cross for the postage." - April Buchheit from Bookmarklet

148 more comments

Ingenious. - Itachi

The postcard says "Postage will be paid by addressee", which implies it's the senator who will be paying the postage. Of course, the senator's franking privileges may make it so that the taxpayers pay the postage. - Gabe

True. But why is it that the Senator Hagan/taxpayers should be paying for Blue Cross' message? - Christopher Chung

My friend did this, too. I hope I get one in the mail. - Ayşe E.

They haven't sent me one of these, but when they do, I'll be sure to mail it in unmodified (or with a big "NO ON PUBLIC OPTION" written on it, perhaps). The very notion of government run health insurance is a travesty that will end up bankrupting this country. - Otto

So you don't think Medicare or the Veterans Health Administration is going to pan out, even after all these years? - Mark Trapp

Medicare and the VA system are living proof of my statements. They offer crappy service and are continually costing more and more as time goes on. They are unsustainable in the long term, and basically expanding these failures to cover everybody is only going to accelerate the problem. - Otto

What's long term? The VA system has been going since 1778, and Medicare since 1965. Are you thinking at the 300 year mark, they'll finally collapse? - Mark Trapp

Right on! Good for you! That's a great idea - Ciaoenrico

Our Canadian single-payer health care has been going strong for some time now with no risk of bankruptcy. I'd like to see some evidence that our system is unsustainable. - Matt Mastracci

The VA system is garbage, ask any veteran who has to use it on a regular basis. And medicare is on the verge of bankruptcy, and has been for at least decade now. Last I checked, medicare was the biggest drain of tax revenue that exists. Predictions I've seen give it 10 more years, tops, even with restructuring. - Otto

What Matt said. - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

Love this post. - Trish R

That's awesome! - Jan Ole Peek

Of course, the assertion that government-run health insurance is unsustainable (whether Medicare, the VA, the Canadian system, or any other) raises the question of what system is more sustainable than government-run insurance. It's certainly not the current American one. ... I love April's use of the mailer. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of health care reform... But insurance reform is unnecessary. The problem is not the insurance companies, their reactions and bad-behaviors are created by the high cost of medical care to begin with. Fix the health care system to not cost so damn much, and the problems with insurance will solve themselves. Strike at the source of the problems, not at the consequences of them. - Otto

Otto: Insurance causes high prices of medical care. Since you don't pay, the hospital can set its prices arbitrarily high and the insurance company pays whatever its maximum is. Since the insurance company pays so much, they have to have high insurance rates, which makes insurance expensive to buy. If the government had their own insurance, they would be big enough to demand low prices,... more... - Gabe

That's insane. The existence of insurance does not cause the high price of medial care. You have it exactly backwards. Furthermore, the idea of a government-run-insurance plan would not solve that problem, if it was at all the truth, because you're dealing with a supply demand situation. The government run plan could say they weren't going to pay above $X, at which point the medical... more... - Otto

The truth is that most of the waste in medical costs comes from two places: administrative overhead and fraud. Both of these are primarily caused by Medicare and the bureaucracy surrounding it. - Otto

Otto: Why is that you keep ignoring all the evidence from other countries that support national health care (e.g. http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues...) and you also keep ignoring the facts that show that medicare has lower costs that private insurance (e.g. http://www.cms.hhs.gov/Nationa... ) - Robert Felty

@Otto - why do you think there is so much administrative overhead? To deal with all the different insurance companies and the reems of paperwork to get a claim approved and avoid malpractice suits. That means more people have to be hired and trained just to deal with all that stuff and more systems and processes have to be put in place to handle it all. Insurance companies make more... more... - Fa La La La Lindsay

@Lindsay: I know several people who work in administrative roles in hospitals. Not one of them agrees with you. The problem isn't the insurance forms and such, those are fairly standard. Almost all of the administrative overhead is due specifically to Medicare. And no, I do not work in the health insurance industry, so your ad-hominem attack makes no sense whatsoever. Why is it that... more... - Otto

@Robert: I'm not ignoring evidence from other countries, I'm discounting most of it based on facts that contradict the ones you are linking to. And Medicare has lower costs than private insurance because it rarely pays for anything. How many people who have medicare must also have their own insurance in order to get proper medical treatment? Have you looked up the numbers on that? - Otto

Otto, how does limiting the pricing result in providers refusing service? In Canada, the Federal Government sets the pricing schedule, but the private providers are still here, providing us good service for a set fee. More info on our system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... I would say that our health care system is an excellent counterpoint to "if you fix the fees at a certain point, providers will stop providing service". - Matt Mastracci

Otto - would you care to share some references which contain the facts that contradict those which I shared? I am open-minded, but I need to see actual data from credible sources to form my opinions. - Robert Felty

How does Otto make the claim that insurance isn't even part of the problem when medical loss ratios in the health insurance business have dropped from 95% to 80% in just 15 years? (and if you don't know what that means, you don't have an informed opinion about health care reform.) - Andrew C

I am always amazed at the ignorance of those arguing against public health care services when practically the entire world is doing it and they always have their facts wrong about Medicare and every other system. They'll become advocates when they or their loved ones are being evicted or foreclosed upon while they are dying an excruciating and untreated death. - Brad Nickel

Otto, just exactly how many veterans have you actually talked to? The VA definitely has flaws, but all the veterans I've talked to seem to like the service provided, and often compare it favorably to the private sector. And why are all those people out there so opposed to changing Medicare if it's so terrible? Since you've stated you haven't seen a doctor in decades, how could you possibly have any experience with any health care system whatsoever? - Victor Ganata

FFS... @Matt: Canada has a lower doctor to patient ratio than anybody else does, and it's decreasing all the time. @Robert: You have Google. Use it. I wouldn't believe links you provide me, so why should you believe links I provide you? Do your own research and make up your own mind. I'm not trying to convince you or anybody else, and I frankly don't care what you believe. @Andrew C:... more... - Otto

*shrug* I'm supposed to be swayed by second-hand anecdotal evidence from someone who doesn't have any recent direct experience with any health care system? If you don't care, why do you continue to post? - Victor Ganata

*shrug* I'm supposed to be swayed by somebody who actually has a vested interest in the health care system (ie, a doctor)? See, I can use fallacious arguments as well as you can, Victor! ;) Also, I post to express my opinions and ideas. Why else would anybody post anything? - Otto

Otto, your facts on doctor:patient ratio are incorrect. Our ratio is 2.2 per 1000, versus 2.4 per 1000 in the USA. In fact, our ratio has improved from 2.1 in the 1990s. While our doctor:patient ratio is not as high as other public health care systems, it isn't far off that of the USA. - Matt Mastracci

Here's my reference: http://www.oecd.org/dataoec... "Between 1990 and 2007, the number of doctors per capita remained relatively stable in Canada" - Matt Mastracci

Otto, but, fair is fair, so long as you don't pretend your anecdotes are generalizable truth, I won't pretend mine are either. It is clear that you do have quite a grasp on fallacious arguments. :) And I do agree that it's important to consider the source of your evidence. - Victor Ganata

Otto, the dropping medical loss ratio specifically means an increasing share of premiums isn't going towards paying for health care; that is /by itself/ inherently bad! In an actual working market, advances in efficiency, if any, would be passed along to the consumers in the form of lower premiums. Instead, prices are getting jacked up even faster than health care inflation because the health care insurance industry exploits monopoly power. - Andrew C

@Matt: According to the WHO: http://nofearsingapore.blogspot.com/2007... the numbers are slightly different. Close, admittedly. However, the important thing to note is that Canada's ratio is the lowest among almost all industrialized countries, which was my point. I was not comparing to the US, specifically. - Otto

@Andrew C: I understand what "medical loss ratio" means. I understand what "profit" and "premiums" are. What I don't understand is why you think a company should not be allowed to make a legitimate profit? Insurance is gambling. If you don't like the bet, then don't gamble. Or, if you really want to see the loss ratios decrease, then ALLOW COMPETITION. Currently there is virtually no... more... - Otto

You make no sense. A company should certainly be allowed to make a legitimate profit, but indefinitely extracting rent at this level is a clear symptom of market-setting power. Trying to call one the other doesn't actually make them the same thing. Also, people can only reasonably get it from their employer _because that's the only affordable option_. Individual insurance exists; it's... more... - Andrew C

I find it pretty funny BTW that you have implicitly agreed with the rest of us that the health care _insurance_ industry actually is part of the problem. - Andrew C

"Insurance is gambling. If you don't like the bet, then don't gamble." It shouldn't have to be a game. Everyone is going to need medical attention at some point in their life. It's a matter of how you will be able to afford to pay for it. People pay for insurance because it's the only way they can afford to ensure that their health will be taken care of. It's not really an option if you... more... - Fa La La La Lindsay

lolling at the "insurance is a gamble" statement. Classic. - Andrizzle Gizzle

It's the conservative message: You're On Your Own. - Andrew C

For the record, I'm not a conservative. I'm also not a liberal. I'm a person, with my own opinions and ideas. Labeling people only means that you're not paying attention to what they're saying. - Otto

@Andrew C: Individual insurance is priced out of the market because of regulations limiting what kinds of plans can be offered. Why can I not a health insurance plan for, say, emergencies only? I'm healthy, I don't have any need to go to the doctor much, I never get sick, the only reason I'd need to do so would be an accident. So why can't I buy that insurance? State regulations... more... - Otto

@Lindsay: Your statements are provably false. Not everyone is going to need medical attention at some point in their lives. Furthermore, if your statement was true, health insurance would not work at all, since the entire point of "insurance" is to spread risk. If risk was 100%, as you claim, then there's nothing to spread. For the record, I do not currently have, nor need, health... more... - Otto

So basically you're gambling, hoping that you will "win the game". At what point do you decide you need insurance? And hopefully you don't get anything before then. It is pointless to argue with someone like this, just let him enjoy his smug satisfaction on having figured out the whole mess. - Andrizzle Gizzle

Everyone has some chance of getting hit by a bus or eating E.coli tainted food or having a tree branch fall on them. {shrug} - Andrew C

Except for the winners who have somehow divined ways not to do so, I guess. - Andrew C

@Otto, your claim about emergencies-only plans being ruled out seems incorrect to me: http://www.insurance.com/health-... - Andrew C

Otto is completely right. Insurance, not having insurance, it's all gambling. What's relevant is regulation limits choices; or forces one person's judgement and preferences on another. Big government healthcare won't work because the government can't do anything well because unlike a market it doesn't have distributed knowlege and I don't think the incentives are right. Witness the UK's... more... - Rob Fisher

While I don't know if we're using the word catastrophe in the same way, clearly there are policies that have very high deductibles where realistically, the only time they would pay benefits would be if you ended up hospitalized. And there are plenty of policies that don't cover preventative care at all. Even these types of policies are out of the reach of quite a few Americans. - Victor Ganata

What a silly response Otto. Its all emotional. Why do you think the argument here is so passionate? The fact that you would even dismiss it that way tells me everything I need to know about your point of view and existence. Sad. - Brad Nickel from email

If "the government can't do anything well" why do they even exist? Unless you're an anarchist, I can't see how it makes sense. - Victor Ganata

There are limited things governments might be good at. Defense of the realm; keeping the peace. They are not good at providing goods and services. When they try to provide (or control the supply of) food, for example, you get famine. That's because you need market signals to stimulate [the right amount of] supply [and demand<delete], and that information is not centralised. The same problem affects government supplied healthcare. Hence waiting lists. - Rob Fisher

We have waiting lists now. In what way are the NHS's waiting lists worse than the delays caused by having to argue with insurance companies to get coverage for diagnostic tests, procedures, and specialist referrals? - Victor Ganata

Because the latter involves the invisible hand somehow! - Andrew C

It's hard to say. I'm not arguing that you don't have a problem, just that more government isn't the solution. E.g. on the NHS you often end up paying for your own treatment anyway just so you get it in time. This is not an improvement. - Rob Fisher

So that's not really different from the current system we have now: you can always pay cash. I think "more government isn't the solution" is a bare assertion that needs a fair amount of evidence to actually prove. - Victor Ganata

Medicare and the VHA have waiting lists? Really? I haven't ever heard anyone waiting for Medicare, and it's single payer. I haven't heard of anyone in England (or Canada, or any other developed country) put on a waiting list. Do you have evidence to support that? You would write off education, food safety, the highway system, firemen, and air safety as well? Seems like you're asking for a very extreme form of government that isn't very much like what developed countries are or what they provide. - Mark Trapp

Otto: The way that discourse works in research-based journals is that one person makes a claim, and backs that up with either data, and/or references to other research. I would happily read any references you give. I don't understand why you wouldn't look at references that I give. - Robert Felty

Rob Fisher: if government controlled healthcare doesn't work, then why does Canada spend less on health care per person, but have lower infant mortality rates, and longer life expectancy? In addition, these numbers have improved since they started their single payer system, while our numbers have basically remained flat. http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues... - Robert Felty

Victor: What can I say? You probably won't be impressed by my Austrian economics theory. You could come and live in the UK and get sick, and see what it's like. :) I do hope the USA manages to avoid the worst of it. Maybe look around at what many other countries do; I don't think anyone gets it quite right. Singapore seems to have good healthcare; but their statistics look good partly... more... - Rob Fisher

Part of the reason all healthcare isn't like that is because not all health procedures and exams are as simple as eye exams. - Andrew C

I also think it's fallacious to believe we're actually arguing about a completely government controlled system. The public option is not even close to a true single-payer system, and nowhere near a nationalized health care system. It is quite similar to Medicare, except with different eligibility criteria, and as far as I can tell, Medicare doesn't seem to have destroyed the private health insurance industry, no matter how many people try to argue that slippery slope. - Victor Ganata

@Rob Fisher - the number of Canadians who seek treatment in the US is not very large: http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi... - Andrew C

You probably can't get a new liver in an hour and expect to have a good outcome no matter where you go. - Victor Ganata

But you should be able to get simple scans and tests quickly and cheaply. You can't on the NHS. The point about this not being about an NHS-like system is taken, though. - Rob Fisher

If you are insured by a private insurer in the US your health fate is decided by insurance underwriters and doctor panels whose sole mandate is to save and make money for the company- not to keep you healthy or prevent you from getting sick or sicker. A doctor's intuition on what a patient may need, even in terms of preventative/investigative testing is hooey as far as they are... more... - Karma Martell

How do we get to a point where you can make money by keeping people healthy? People want to be healthy, so it must be doable. - Rob Fisher

The prescription drug cos would fold, Rob. That is not what they want. - Karma Martell

i wish i could do more than "like" this. oh, and while i'm here loving this, @Rob Fisher -- my answer is, make money doing something other than "keeping people healthy" -- putting profit and human life in the same objective is bound to have some horrifying conflicts of interest, no matter how pure the "health" motivation is. and with $$ involved, it will never even be close to approximating pure. - (dot)lizard kelly

@Rob - you can make money by keeping people healthy, but as (dot)lizard kelly just said, you can make _more_ money by not... for example, by collecting premiums from healthy people and denying coverage to your sick customers. - Andrew C

@kelly - I wouldn't mind people profiting by keeping people healthy. Hospitals and doctors do that. The trouble with insurance companies is that they profit by denying people care. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Karma: As long as *someone* can make money at it, doesn't matter who. (dot)lizard kelly: food is important to be healthy; people make money at providing food; no conflict of interest there. I'm not convinced there's anything so different about healthcare. I'll sleep on it and let you know if I have thought of an amazing business plan in the morning. And if it doesn't work, I'll be looking for regulations that stop it working. - Rob Fisher

(I suspect the reason is you can't switch insurance companies easily.) - Rob Fisher

Simple scans and tests frequently lead to incidental findings that are almost always benign but lead to literal million dollar workups. I actually don't think easy access to everything is always the right answer. - Victor Ganata

The food example may not be a good counter-argument here in the U.S., where farmers have actually been paid not to grow things in order to artificially keep prices up. - Victor Ganata

Evidently you and others that spout this free market gobbldy gook have never worked for corporate America and the absolute incompetence in those organizations. Hello , can you say mortgage, banking, savings and loan, energy, etc etc etc. It is a lie and a myth and you folks have gotten away with it for far too long! Thanks, Brad - Brad Nickel from email

I have worked for corp America. As Brad says, free market is never free. The wealth is not distributed. There needs to be accountability and standards. As Obama says, an insurance co should not be able to come between a decision made by you and your doctor. And Victor, it's about fair access, not just access if you have the money and you can override the system. - Karma Martell

The problem is that access is controlled by two forces: actual medical need, and the need to generate a profit, and lots of times these forces end up opposing each other. As the costs of medical care continue to increase, I think we're going to have to decide as a society which is actually more important. - Victor Ganata

This is not to say that I don't think people who actually provide the care shouldn't be compensated for their labor. (In my case, that's just self-interest.) But there's a huge difference between fair compensation and outright profiteering. - Victor Ganata

So who is paying for the "Public Option"? - Brett Veenstra

And who here does not know Blue Cross is a private company. - Mahmood Padura

If you go by what's in the House bill, the public option will initially be financed by seed money from the federal government that is supposed to be paid back in 10 years. In the long run, it's supposed to be funded entirely by the premiums of people who choose to participate in the plan. - Victor Ganata

Otto: it is not the existence of insurance companies that keep prices high (auto insurance's existence doesn't make auto repairs artificially inflated), it is how the system works. If I am a healthcare provider and you are a patient who will only pay $100 no matter how expensive the treatment is, I can set the price as high as I want. Your insurance might only cover $500, but somebody else's might cover $1000 or $5000, so there's no reason I shouldn't set my price at $5000 for the treatment. - Gabe

Furthermore, let's say that there's a 1% chance that you'll need another $5000 test (an MRI perhaps). If you do need it and I don't give it to you, there's a chance you'll sue me and my malpractice insurance goes way up. If I give it to you and you don't need it, you don't care because you're not paying for it. You end up getting lots unnecessary tests just so I don't get sued. In... more... - Gabe

I dunno, didn't Japan solve the MRI problem by providing lots of them and driving the cost-per-exam down? ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh... ) - Andrew C

And besides, the insurance companies in the States deal with that problem by denying procedures. - Andrew C

Health care is not a right http://peikoff.com/video-u... - Crutis

It might be instructive to look at the US airline industry before and after deregulation. It used to be that prices were fixed, so airlines competed on service. This meant that service was good, and profits were built-in so airlines weren't constantly in bankruptcy. It also meant that flying was a luxury that most people could not afford, which made it not so crowded either. After... more... - Gabe

Unless you intend on repealing EMTALA, access to emergency care regardless of ability to pay is in fact a guaranteed right in the U.S. - Victor Ganata

Hmmmm... Unless Crutis you think they fall within Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness! Thanks, Brad - Brad Nickel from email

What of someone is happiest if they choose not to acquire health care insurance? It would seem to me that the imposition would thwart their pursuit and remove their liberty. - Mattb4rd

When are we going to learn that the cake really is a lie? Re: Washington D.C. - I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. - Mattb4rd

Civilization is impossible without some form of government. The idea that we can live without it is the lie. - Victor Ganata

No, the lie is that government is somehow required in all aspects of daily life. Civilization does need government, but mostly it needs it to stay as small as possible and leave people alone as much as possible. You are not a child. Grow up and deal with your own problems instead of expecting the rest of society to take care of you. - Otto

BTW, a "public option" doesn't actually bother me provided you use absolutely zero tax money to pay for it. Make it paid for entirely by the premiums of the people who opt-in to it, and I have no further argument against it whatsoever. (Also, eliminate the part of the current plan that imposes tax penalties on those of us who choose to not have health insurance, as that is simply flat-out wrong. If I choose to cover my own risk, then that is my business, not the governments.) - Otto

Yeah Otto, that works well. For example banks, mortgage companies, savings and loans, toys from China, Enron.... The naive Libertarian view of the world that somehow everything will work out in the end and all will be well makes me laugh every time I hear it. Greed, perversion, violence, and chaos don't go away when the government goes away. Human run institutions are all equally flawed... more... - Brad Nickel from email

Brad: I don't know what world you're living in, but it's not the same one I am. Government has done very little good in the world, and is in fact responsible for the vast majority of evil in it. Perhaps you forget who's waging wars, eh? A few people inconvenienced by a bank or who signed bad mortgages doesn't really much compare to millions and millions of dead people. Also, "this... more... - Otto

Sure, because the US Department of Defense had absolutely nothing to do with the Internet whatsoever. But I agree. To believe that the government is either completely virtuous or always evil is delusional. - Victor Ganata

Actually Otto, religion and greed are responsible for most of the wars. Whether a government fights them or not is irrelevant and these days its private corporations that are fighting much of our wars and doing a piss poor job of it as evidenced by the debacle that is Iraq. That there is a fine example of where we should have let government run things, but we had to privatize things at... more... - Brad Nickel from email

@Victor: The DoD had very little to do with creating the internet, short of funding it. They paid for it in order to connect universities together (whom they were funding for other projects as well). It's not like they sent over a bunch of engineers to lay some cables or actually wrote any of the protocols or anything. Vint Cerf didn't actually go work for DARPA until 1976. The first pipes were laid when he was still in school. - Otto

@Brad: It's amazing to me that anybody can espouse a philosophy like yours, which enables governments to control the population and do basically anything they like, including killing millions of innocent people through senseless wars and immoral legislation. Corporations didn't bomb Iraq and Afghanistan, the federal government did. Corporations didn't lie to us about the non-existent... more... - Otto

Yes, because ordinary people with no funding or government backing whatsoever can always complete large scale worldwide projects if they just work hard enough, without any assistance. Rugged individualism FTW. - Victor Ganata

@Victor: Why must everything come down to "large scale" and "worldwide" in your view? Are you so incapable of taking care of your own problems that you want to a) take care of everybody else's and b) have yours taken care of by everybody else? We're talking about health care. Why must "health" be a worldwide problem, to the extent that you want to take away individual rights in favor of... more... - Otto

Otto, where are we talking about taking away individual rights? I'm talking about HR 3200, not some fantastical single payer system or some nationalized health care system from your paranoid nightmares. Don't be a fool. Look around you right now. Clearly health can be a worldwide problem. And it's disingenuous to believe the Internet would have been built if some government hadn't been around to provide funding. - Victor Ganata

Silly Otto... Its obvious that an informed conversation with you is impossible, since you are unable to defend your actual philosophy or arguments and rely upon distortions and extremely silly exaggerations to try and make a point when the question being asked can not be answered with the truth. This happens every single time I debate a Libertarian. They can't explain themselves or how... more... - Brad Nickel from email

Because we'll have to pay for your silly self to keep you alive when you are sick and dying and don't have coverage. - Brad Nickel from email

@Victor: HR3200 takes away my right to choose my own health insurance (in my case, none) by imposing additional taxation and penalties for my choice. It also uses tax money to finance the "public option", which I'm firmly opposed to. And it's disingenuous to believe that the internet would have NOT been built if the government had not provided the funding. It would have happened... more... - Otto

@Brad: I'm tired of listening to your socialist and communist rhetoric. (See? I can apply incorrect labels just as well as you can! I'm not a "Libertarian".) Anyway, if you want the government to control your life, keep it to yourself, I'm not interested. Also, if you can find anywhere I called you anything other than "Brad", I'd be very interested. Note: Saying your ideas amount to "totalitarianism" isn't name-calling when it's true. - Otto

You are a funny guy Otto and I mean that in all the ways it can be interpreted. - Brad Nickel

Fine. Welcome to my block list, Brad. If you ever grow up and decide that you want to have a real conversation instead of trolling, then I'll be happy to oblige you. Until then, just rant incoherently to somebody else, eh? - Otto

LOL. See what I mean. You are funny. - Brad Nickel

Are you kidding me about the Internet, Otto? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... Note that 2 of the original nodes were UC schools--government funded public schools. With HR 3200, it's obviously going to take money to get the public option up and running, but it's supposed to be paid back in 10 years. As for the mandate, it's not ideal, but I don't see how else it will work. Otherwise,... more... - Victor Ganata

No, I think they are supposed to let him die. - Brad Nickel

@Victor: No, I'm not kidding, and that link backs up every word I just said about it. As for the public option paying for itself, are you joking? Medicare is continuously in the red (average benefit per person in Medicare is $11,000 per year!) , and you think making a bigger version will somehow magically work? As for the mandate, that's an absolute deal-breaker, because it it is... more... - Otto

That's how government projects almost always work: they award private companies contracts to do the work. Even HR 3200 is structured that way. - Victor Ganata

If you actually look at it, HR 3200 isn't structured like Medicare. And why is it that state laws that mandate you to carry auto insurance if you drive haven't been struck down by the Supreme Court if it's so unconstitutional? If you're totally healthy there are policies with $10,000 annual deductibles that cost like $50 a month. Obviously, the health insurance companies would rather you pay for a more expensive plan if they can get you to. - Victor Ganata

Why in the world is a high deductible insurance plan not what you want, Otto? - Andrew C

"Medicare is continuously in the red" - regular people who aren't on Medicare either lose benefits or coverage entirely or get outrageous rate hikes, so I'm not sure why you seem to keep claiming private insurance is any better... - Andrew C

My goodness, a single-payer plan in BC costs ~$54/person/month and the deductible is way lower than $10K. And what I lose in 'freedom', I gain back in peace of mind and more money in my pocket overall. (and isn't the glibertarian definition of freedom money?) (Amazingly, the US actually spends as much _government_ money on health care per capita as Canada, and then of course far more in private money on top.) - Andrew C

@Victor: a) State laws don't require you to carry auto insurance. They require you to carry auto insurance *OR* post a bond for some fixed amount, in case you hit somebody else. and b) Auto insurance is about liability (protecting other people from you), while health insurance is not (it's about about protecting you from other things, people included). - Otto

@Andrew C: I fail to understand the question. A high deductible insurance plan is not what I want, because it is not what I want. What I want is a health insurance plan that will only cover me from, say, accident. Something that doesn't cover routine crap which I won't be needing anyway, or which I can pay for myself. In cases where there is an accident, I don't want *any* deductible,... more... - Otto

A high deductible plan effectively only covers you for catastrophes, because you're on your own for the first $5K or $10K, so all "routine crap" will be out of pocket. - Andrew C

BTW, not seeing a doctor even for routine checkups is also gambling. Good luck with that. - Andrew C

"Effectively" is not the same thing as actually. And if there was some kind of major incident, I'd still be on the hook for the $10k, which is still problematic. Basically, a high deductible means that you're getting no real coverage at all, it's not disaster coverage. - Otto

The $10k outlay doesn't sound problematic to me; you've been investing your money, right? - Andrew C

Andrew C: No, it's not. There is no actual need for "routine checkups" in a healthy human being. You'd free to disagree, but I'm just going to say you're wrong, and that is that, so there's no point in arguing it. And whether I can afford $10k or not is beside the point, it's still not the type of coverage I actually need or want. - Otto

Otto - You have a valid point that insurance is designed to cover catastrophes. It turns out that preventative medicine helps to avoid catastrophes though. So it is in the best interest of insurance companies to encourage their customers to get preventative care. One way to do that is to pay fot it. Another way to do it would be to give people discounts for getting regular checkups, just like you get discounts on auto insurance for having a good driving record. - Robert Felty

Yeah, there really is no point in arguing with you, not when you just make statements and "that is that". (Good thing cancer never starts off growing in the body for years before becoming a major problem! And that arteries don't ever get clogged before they close up entirely.) - Andrew C

Robert: Preventative medicine does help to avoid catastrophe, however, it's also far cheaper to cover your own costs there instead of relying on insurance coverage to pay for it for you. It makes no sense for insurance to cover basic care. You don't pay for gasoline with your auto insurance, do you? The fact that insurance covers basic care means added burdens to the administrative overhead, higher premiums, etc, etc. It's a bad system overall. - Otto

OK, so you want catastrophic coverage that starts from dollar 1 for accidents, but no insurance for routine procedures. I think this is a little ridiculous, but you're right, I don't think insurance companies offer that. - Andrew C

Insurance companies are actively prevented from offering it, is what you meant to say. Many state laws require certain minimum levels of coverage, so the plan I want/need is unavailable to me because of over-regulation. - Otto

Preventative care isn't gasoline. Food is the analogy to gasoline. And no, health care insurance doesn't pay for food. - Andrew C

@Andrew C: Okay then, if you don't like that metaphor... Does your auto insurance pay for oil changes? My point is that health care should not pay for routine stuff *unless I want it to*. I do not want it to, I'm perfectly capable of dealing with routine stuff on my own. - Otto

Otto - this is not just about you though. It is mostly about the millions of people who don't have any insurance at all right now. Also, with the oil change analogy, that is not quite right either. Standard auto insurance does not pay for vehicle failure. It pays for vehicle damage due to accidents. There probably is a small correlation between frequency of oil changes and automobile accidents, but I bet that the correlation between regular colonoscopies and advanced colon cancer is much higher. - Robert Felty

Robert: Auto insurance does indeed pay for vehicle failure, if you have comprehensive insurance. Depends on the type of failure. On the other hand, you can get liability insurance to only pay for accidents caused by you, if you so want. You have choice of what to get. And I'd venture to bet that the correlation between colonoscopies and colon cancer is indeed quite high, but in the... more... - Otto

Otto - my dad gets regular colonoscopies, because he has diverticulosis, and I am not ready for him to die just yet. - Robert Felty

Robert: He has a medical condition. I'd hardly call that "routine maintenance", sort of thing. - Otto

Sure. The reason why health insurance companies don't offer plans like that are completely because all 50 states have strict mandates, and certainly not because the health insurance companies don't think they're profitable and would prefer that you pay for more coverage. Of course it's always the government's fault, and never the invisible hand's. - Victor Ganata

Victor: In this case, what I said was in fact true. All 50 states and even the federal government have tons of regulations on the health insurance industry. Rates, premiums, etc.. these are all fixed by the individual states. The insurance companies have to work within a very narrow window of guidelines, sort of thing. This is one reason that so many of them have tried hard to deny... more... - Otto

The only regulation I see that applies to all 50 states is that insurance companies have to be solvent, capable of paying claims, and able to process claims in timely fashion. Fact is, the insurance companies have continued to make record profits despite all these regulations, so I'm not exactly going to cry them a river. - Victor Ganata

Switzerland gets by with strict regulation... Admittedly, I doubt they have the kind of catastrophe-only plans you like, but (1) the insurers there make it work, and (2) they achieve better coverage and outcomes than the current US system does. - Andrew C

@Brad Nickel - The right to life does not imply the right to the labor and property of other individuals. Medicine is exactly that: the products and services of tremendously skilled individuals. To claim by right their labor and products is the moral equivalent of slavery. - Crutis

I just can't get over the rhetoric. It truly makes me laugh outloud. Slave labor. It's not worthy of further debate. - Brad Nickel from email

It's hardly slavery when health care professionals take oaths to serve society in exchange for the position of privilege it puts them in. And they provide care that isn't fully compensated quite frequently: it's part and parcel of many of the contracts they sign with insurance companies. Are you going to call that slavery too? - Victor Ganata

@Victor, no I call it what it is: charity. Charity should be encouraged. @Brad, when you stop laughing maybe you can refute the right of a physician to contract with a patient without government interference. Until then the only laughable idea is the logical conclusion of your argument that physicians could be imprisoned unless they run their businesses for free or at a loss. - Crutis

It is impossible to be a physician without government interference, since license to practice is issued by the state. I'm not sure I'd want it otherwise, personally. Anyway, once again we're straying from the topic at hand: there's nothing in HR 3200 that says you have to accept gov't issued insurance, anymore than you have to accept Medicare or Medicaid. It will still be quite possible to have a nice little boutique practice without getting a paycheck from the gov't. - Victor Ganata

I do medical billing for a nursing home. Those of you who are in favor of a public option obviously don't understand Medicare and Medicaid. We couldn't take care of anybody if we had to rely only on what the government pays. And doctors didn't go to school for all those years and incur all that debt just to be civil servants with tons of red tape and poor compensation. There will be a huge shortage of doctors within a decade. If the bill passes the Senate, we're in for a true disaster. - Dawn

Victor Ganata

Screw you people who think that just because I'm going to get an increasing amount of my income from the government should the public option pass, I'm suddenly going to become a shitty doctor.

October 27 - Comment - Like - Share

Spidra Webster, Rodfather, John (a.k.a. dendroica) and 9 other people liked this

Are you promising that you won't? :) - Cristo

4 more comments

If I become a shitty doctor, I guarantee it's not going to be because of the marginal increase in the proportion of payments I get from the government. - Victor Ganata

They don't "think" that, per se. They "parrot" that because an insurance company lobbyist went on Fox News disguised as an expert and told them what to say. The insurance company lobbyist doesn't think that either, it's just a convenient fiction to scare the masses. - (dot)lizard kelly

Isn't "gastroenterologist" the preferred term? - Jim Norris

LOL - Victor Ganata

"There's a lot of money in shit" -- The Fat Man, senior resident from The House of God by Samuel Shem http://www.amazon.com/House-G... - Victor Ganata

Leslie Blanchard

Conservative Doctor Valiantly Keeps Women From Becoming Sluts - http://www.alternet.org/blogs...

October 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

(dot)lizard kelly liked this

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML to See-ming's feed, SML Graphic Design, SML Universe, Creative Design, Web & Teknoloji, Web Design, TheNextWeb Forum

An Analysis of the Amazon Shopping Experience | Webdesigner Depot #design #ux #ui #ixd #amazon #ecommerce #analysis - http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009...

October 25 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

brainno722 (Peter), Iván Abrego, ced and 6 other people liked this

"Designers of e-commerce websites today face a number of challenges in attempting to build a user experience that increases the likelihood of visitors making online purchases. To battle fierce online competition and overcome the apprehension of skeptical shoppers, designers can take a number of steps to improve the usability of their online stores. Since 1995, Amazon has established itself as the world’s leader in e-commerce. Its success is not a fluke, nor is it merely the result of being in the right place at the right time. Amazon’s success is the direct result of a strong user shopping experience. In this article, we will discuss a number of features of the Amazon shopping experience that will, either in principle or practically, offer a model worthy of imitation by e-commerce developers today." - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML from Bookmarklet

The only enhancement I can think of in the Amazon usage experience is that the add to wishlist function is not currently using ajax - it loads a new page. - TrafficBug

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML to See-ming's feed, SML Fine Art, SML Graphic Design, Creative Design, Graphic Design, Graphics N' Design, Motion Graphics, Crazy Gadgets

Sony Ericsson MH907 (Motion Activated headphones) #gadget #motion #design #advertising #video - http://vimeo.com/6680828

October 24 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

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"We made this for Sony Ericsson's new magic headphones MH907. Director/Animaton/Clay/Characterdesign: Kristofer Ström VFX/Compositing/Animation: Eric Buchholtz Music/Soundeffects: Douglas Holmquist Agency: Top Dollar Campaign AD: Malin Olsson Producers: Bart Yates, Nicholas Wakeham Studio: Varelsen BehindTheScenesFootage: Johan Sundell http://varelsen.se http://topdollar.se http://soundofoo.com http://sonyericsson.com/putyour..." - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML from Bookmarklet

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

#qotd http://bit.ly/4pxKGg "You know it's a good abstract photograph when you have no idea what you're looking at." - Flickr:84124C - http://www.flickr.com/photos...

October 24 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego and (dot)lizard kelly liked this

"You know it's a good abstract photograph when you have no idea what you're looking at." - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML from Bookmarklet

amazing collection - such delicious eye candy :) - (dot)lizard kelly

@(dot)lizard kelly thanks for appreciating it :D - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

Victor Ganata

Can atheism be considered a religion? Is Taoism considered a religion?

October 22 - Comment - Like - Share

Rob Haas, Kol Tregaskes, Maitani and 23 other people liked this

Yes...null is still part of a set. For instance, if I ask how many beans am I holding and my hand is empty, I am holding no beans, but I am still holding an amount of beans...it just happens that this amount is 0. We are not Romans with no concept of 0. - Alex Scoble

282 more comments

Atheism is a religion, but agnosticism is not. :) - Cristo

I don't think Taoism is a religion, unless there's a church. - Rodfather

Believing that we don't have the answers and never will is still believing in something, Chris. - Alex Scoble

The empty set is part of every set! For some reason, in this context, that basic mathematical statement blows my mind. - Victor Ganata

I disagree with Alex but that, of course, is the problem in a nutshell. Nobody has the same definition of anything in the world of religious arguments; everything is tainted with belief or lack thereof and we're all hearing what we want to hear and never getting across what we really mean because the other side is doing the same. Pointless. But fun too with the right people. - Mark H

You have to be agnostic about something, don't you? - Victor Ganata

Religion is the belief that you survive your own death. I think that the reason religious people want to classify atheism as a religion is that they have a lingering feeling they are on shaky ground. - Eivind

Victor: Sure, that just means "without knowledge". - Eivind

I'd say atheism is more of an ideological viewpoint than a religion... - Martin Bryant

It's not pointless, though, Mark. People use this issue to put a wedge between Atheists, Agnostics and their 1st amendment rights (freedom of religion)...so it's of critical importance that we don't let people go around thinking that Atheism and Agnosticism aren't religions. - Alex Scoble

I believe that I survive my own death...The atoms and molecules that make up my body will be around as long as the universe is. - Alex Scoble

Survive in what way? In both Taoism and modern physics, it's believed that your energy/your atoms persist beyond death. Is modern physics a religion? - Victor Ganata

As with any philosophical discussion, it's important to define terms first... "A religion is a system of human thought which usually includes a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, deity or deities, or ultimate truth." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] - LogEx

Argh, you need to be conscoius and aware that you have transcended into something else. (I'm sure I didn't make that bullet proof.) - Eivind

Alex, I believe in lots of things. That doesn't make them religions. - Cristo

"Taoism" doesn't mean one thing, especially in the West. The traditional alchemical practices and others I've heard of sound a lot more like a religion than what I "practice" which is more of a philosophy (or to be more specific the focused cultivation of certain brain states). And what LogEx said. - Lo

Is Yoga a religion? - Rodfather

No, but Hinduism is. - Cristo

Eivind, so from what I know about Taoism, you don't survive as a distinct conscious entity after you die. Would you consider it a religion? - Victor Ganata

People believe that UFOs will visit the Earth and they worship these aliens as if they are gods coming to save us...is that a religion? - Alex Scoble

Alex, yes. - Cristo

Victor, from what little I know I think Taoism is somewhere between philosophy and religion depending on your take on it. - Eivind

If that's a religion than any belief SYSTEM is a religion...Atheism and Agnosticism are belief systems AKA religions. - Alex Scoble

What are the rituals ("narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices")? - LogEx

I'd love to get involved with this, but it's been exhuasted after one of these every day since sunday. I view Atheism as a religion, depending on the definitions of religion, belief, and atheism that you have changes it, but it's all semantics. ^^ I follow those, thought processes. LogEx, some definitions of religion don't require rituals, narratives, or practices, just beliefs. - Jimminy Fuller

Agnosticism doesn't necessarily mean you will never know, just that you don't right now. I can't see how this is a religion anymore than Science is a religion. - Cristo

Eivind, Taoism also prizes (from what I've read) skepticism very highly. As does Buddhism to a certain extent. If you're called a religion but say nothing that conflicts with science and/or atheism, I approve. - Lo

"Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, spiritual beings, or even ultimate reality — are unknown or, in some forms of agnosticism, unknowable. It is not a religious declaration in itself, and an agnostic may also be a theist or an atheist." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Cristo

Alex, do you want atheism to be a religion? If so I can just exchange the word with "superstition" to describe what I mean when I say religion. - Eivind

Chris, but you have to be agnostic about some religion, don't you? Or maybe I've misused the term, and it's just the philosophical state of not being sure of knowing? - Victor Ganata

I don't consider either a religion. There should be a option of None. Taoism is more of a teaching from my understanding. - Santa CW™

No, atheism is not religion. We aren't aligned with some central idea. Look at the root of the word 'religion'. - Kamilah Gill from email

I still haven't heard any alternate definitions. If leap of faith is the only criteria, then every act of living is a religion. - LogEx

This "null is still part of a set" argument bugs me deep inside. By this definition everything is everything. "Is the Earth a cat?" "Yes, since it's not a cat it is arguably a cat." - Mark H

+1 Mark - Eivind

Kamilah we are aligned with one central idea, there is no higher being. - Jimminy Fuller

Victor, in general you are agnostic about the existence of God or gods or whether someone was a representative or was God, such as Jesus. In practice the term is used to apply to anything that you aren't sure of. E.g. You could be agnostic about time travel. - Cristo

And then there's Apatheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - LogEx

No, Earth is not a subset of cats...clearly the Earth is NOT a cat...but zero cats is a subset of cats. Big difference there. Then again since when has religion ever been about logic for most people? It's all about what their preacher/pastor/pope/etc. tells them. When it comes down to it, I have just as much right to my 2nd amendment rights to be left alone for my beliefs (or lack... more... - Alex Scoble

Believe what you want, but that does not mean that you can use those beliefs to deny me employment, or a home loan or anything else that is protected under the 1st amendment. - Alex Scoble

1st Amendment. - LogEx

Is it? Oops...my bad. - Alex Scoble

LOL. Is owning guns considered a religion? :D - Victor Ganata

I bet some people would in fact consider it to be so. - Alex Scoble

++ Mark - Lo

Comments edited for accuracy. - Alex Scoble

Mark, don't blame me, blame the mathematicians. :D According to set theory, ∅ ⊆ A where A is any set. - Victor Ganata

Alex: Okay, I was being facetious (I'm like that; it's very annoying) and I do understand your reasoning. It just seems that there's no way for atheists to win this argument under your definitions. Nobody can ever technically be non-religious since they'll be part of the not religious "religious" set and therefore you can just claim they're religious in spite of their own personal definition. Or can someone be non-religious according to the null set definition? - Mark H

Of course they can be non-religious, but that would still put them in a protected class according to the first amendment as the null is still a member of the set of religion. By saying that null is not part of the set, people are using that as an excuse to deny Atheists, Agnostics, etc. of their 1st amendment rights and that just ain't right. - Alex Scoble

Glad we got that cleared up. I thought Alex might shoot someone. ;) - Cristo

The day's not over yet, Chris. :) - Alex Scoble

Chris, he's planning on shooting people later tonight. - Jimminy Fuller

But you know what, since people insist on my having a religion in order to be part of the protected classes under the 1st amendment, I now worship the Cat God. She requires that I play video games for at least 2 hours every day. When I die I go to Cat God nirvana and become one of the Cat God's favorite catnip toys to be batted around for endless pleasure. The fact that I obey and play... more... - Alex Scoble

Alex, agnosticism is not a religion, it's a philosophy. I thought we covered that. You can be both agnostic and atheist, or agnostic and believe in a religion. - Cristo

You can't be an agnostic and atheist...Atheists believe there is no god. Period. Agnostics believe that you can't prove one way or the other that a god exists. They are the mu state of religious thought. Indeterminant. Neither on nor off. Once you pick a state you cease to be Agnostic. Because I now worship Cat God, I am no longer Agnostic, so stop infringing on my 1st amendment rights. - Alex Scoble

Alex: I think half the problem with this particular twist on this argument is you've been arguing from a U.S.-technicality-for-legal-reasons point-of-view and I haven't. I get what you're saying and I accept and approve of the result you're going for though. For some reason it reminds me of the Catholic church deciding that beaver was a fish in the 17th century so it could be eaten on a... more... - Mark H

Yep, living in the US and having people tell me that it's OK that the dollar bill says "In God We Trust" because it doesn't infringe on my 1st amendment rights because Atheism and Agnosticism aren't protected because it doesn't say "freedom from religion". But that doesn't matter now since I have been reborn as a faithful servant of Cat God. - Alex Scoble

Alex you can worship whatever you want, but that won't making not knowing if what you worship is true a religion, just as not having proof that there is no God is a religion. - Cristo

Ok, maybe. But it's not like we all do the same things. We are not organized - Kamilah Gill from email

We need to amend the amendment. Not twist ourselves to fit. I want nothing to do with religion. - Kamilah Gill from email

Alex: Agnosticism is an epistemological position. One is still either a theist or not with respect to some deity. - Christopher A Carr

Kamilah, there are organized religions, with their fancy churches, idols, histories, and practices, and then there is the unorganized religions, where you are free to your interpretations and practices, no specific body of history that has to be relied on as fact, no idol, and doesn't need a building or congregation to be held true. Atheism, Buddhism, and Taoism exist in the latter group, there is nothing wrong with religion. - Jimminy Fuller

You can't say "I don't know what to believe" in one hand (Agnosticism) and then say that you believe in god on the other (Theism)...If you are on or off you aren't mu. - Alex Scoble

Can it be a religion if you don't have to believe in any deities? Is it really just a binary position? - Victor Ganata

Alex: Agnosticism isn't "I don't know what to believe." It's a stance on what's knowable. - Christopher A Carr

Are there any agnostic atheists in da hizzy? - Victor Ganata

Then you and I see it very differently and will have to agree to disagree on the subject. - Alex Scoble

Alex, like Christopher said, you lean one way or the other, towards Theistic beliefs or Atheistic Beliefs, but you aren't willing to commit fully. - Jimminy Fuller

*Raises hand* Also a Buddhist practitioner - Jimminy Fuller

So, I guess the question is: is atheism strictly about the non-existence of a deity (or deities)? Or must you also be non-religious/non-spiritual? - Victor Ganata

+Mark - Kamilah Gill from email

I'm not a theist with respect to the God of Abraham. In principle, though, because this deity is defined as non-material and outside of the natural world, I'm rather forced to hold an agnostic position as to whether we can be certain of its existence. But so what. I'm forced to hold the same position as regards Marduk and Odin, and the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster... - Christopher A Carr

That one can't disprove the existence of a thing on no way makes the thing as likely to exist as not. - Christopher A Carr

Victor, it's purely the non-existence of deities, those that fall into the more radical and outspoken Atheist groups, are against religion also. - Jimminy Fuller

I (and this is Christopher Hitchens' position as well) also consider myself something of a God of Abraham anti-theist, in that I hope that Yahweh doesn't exist. I prefer not to be a slave to a dictator of that sort. - Christopher A Carr

See what Mark just said about the fish - Kamilah Gill from email

Depends on whether you believe there is no god, or whether you do not believe in a god or gods. One is a belief, and possibly a form of religion, since there is no scientific proof of the non-existance of a god or gods. However, if you simply don't believe there is a god, that's not a religion, since it's not a belief -- it's the lack of a belief. - (dot)lizard kelly

Not collecting stamps isn't a hobby. - Christopher A Carr

You can have beliefs without a religious framework - Mo Kargas

It's hard for me to see how believing that God does not exist is not a belief, when you can't empirically prove that God does not exist (anymore than you can prove that God does exist), but I guess it really is about how you define things. - Victor Ganata

Victor: Is you lack of belief in Thor a religious belief? What "god" are you talking about? - Christopher A Carr

Collecting and Believing are quite different - collections are physical things, beliefs are abstract. If you actively believe there IS NO GOD, then you have a belief system, and it is based in something other than provable fact. if you neither believe nor disbelieve based on an absence of proof, that is not a belief. - (dot)lizard kelly

I believe that the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and leprechauns do not exist as well. I put them on the same level as god. - Brian Sullivan

I still think that disbelief in something that can't be proven is still a belief about something that can't be proven. We're back to the empty set thing again :D - Victor Ganata

Christopher: yes, any god. There's no empirical evidence in the non-existence of Thor, either. - Victor Ganata

There is compelling evidence to suggest the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and leprechauns do not exist, however, due to the incredibly challenging nature of proving a negative, there is no definitive proof. I do not believe they don't exist. I just don't believe that they do. - (dot)lizard kelly

Lizard: There's compelling evidence that the semitic deity Yahweh, as described in the Bible, also does not exist. I can't prove that it doesn't, but that in no way makes it as likely to exist as not. - Christopher A Carr

OK, there is far more evidence that the tooth fairy and Santa Claus don't exist, at least not in the forms that we tell children about. As for leprechauns and any particular pantheon of gods, I don't think there's any way to prove they don't exist. - Victor Ganata

Based on the evidence available to me, I've concluded that Yahweh doesn't exist. The fact that I can't absolutely prove that he doesn't just isn't all that relevant or interesting, because one also can't prove that faeries and the skunk ape don't exist. "..but there's no way to *prove* god [again, which god?] doesn't exist..." is a big fat "so what?" Coming to the conclusion that Loki doesn't exist in no way amounts to a belief consistent with belonging to a religion. - Christopher A Carr

Unless not believing that some deity is real instantly causes a new religion to come into existence, in which case I belong to many thousands of religions. - Christopher A Carr

It's not that it makes you belong to a particular religion. But it's still a religious question. So it's hard for me to believe that a system of beliefs that is devoted to religious questions is not itself a religion. - Victor Ganata

I suppose you can broaden "religion" to encompass anything you like. Do you believe that Tiamat exists? - Christopher A Carr

For those who want Taoism with the legal protections of a church in the US, consider the new Dude-ist movement: http://www.dudeism.com/ Also, Jimminy - I like the cut of your jib! - Lo

No, I don't believe in the existence of Tiamat or Marduk. I realize that it's probably a logical fallacy to believe so, but surely you can see why I might confuse a system of beliefs devoted to religious questions and issues as itself being a religion? - Victor Ganata

Based on the evidence available to me, I do not believe in the existence of a god or gods. However I would not go so far as to say that I believe they do not exist, because in doing so I would be doing the same thing as countless religions do (and I disagree with) -- stating that everyone else is wrong, and I and those who believe what I do, are the only ones right. - (dot)lizard kelly

How do you define "religious questions and issues" ? - Brian Sullivan

I would say that the existence or non-existence of God is a religious question/issue. - Victor Ganata

It could also be a logical and/or philosophical question / issue. Debating the validity of various religious beliefs doesn't have to be a religious discussion, any more than debating the validity of what Fox News says is a discussion about journalism :) - (dot)lizard kelly

Yeah, they can totally lick themselves in places we can't. No fair! - (dot)lizard kelly

Oh boy, I'm late to this party but atheism is certainly not a religion. That's the whole point. It's not even a real "-ism". Unless you think not believing in Santa Claus needs to be called "aclausism". I'm only an "atheist" only because it's easier than being a "ithinkyourreligionisinsaneandyoushouldreallykeepittoyourselfistsoidon'thavetotellyousotoyourface" - cdogzilla

But why is it OK for an atheist to tell someone to their face that they're insane, but a Christian fundamentalist can't rant and rave and try to convert you? Myself, I'm all for STFU, I don't care what you believe or disbelieve in if it doesn't have any immediate physical consequences. - Victor Ganata

Chris, there are atheists that fall into that group that you described, as the only reason you're an atheist. You might want to look into it and the fact that you used an illogical statement to back up a religion based on human logic. - Jimminy Fuller

@Victor. Not that they are insane. Most religious people aren't. I think atheists are better off leaving religion to the religious -- until the religion infringes on their freedoms. Keep it out of the schools, out of government, don't ask me to pretend I respect it, and there's nothing more that needs to be said about it. My point was I won't tell you what I think of your religion if you don't ask me too. So it's not okay for a zealot to get in my face. - cdogzilla

@Jiminy that's the only reason I identify myself as an atheist. The reasons I'm not a theist I suspect are the same ones you are referring to. - cdogzilla

Chris, I don't understand that statement, you just made, but the new revolution in Atheism is the exact opposite of what you don't want to be classified as, the "ithinkyourreligionisinsane" "butimgoingtoletyouknowthatyourestupidandillogicalnowtoyourfaceorbehindyourback" You might want to look into that before you claim that as your only reason to be an Atheist, here is an article to read. http://www.nytimes.com/2009... - Jimminy Fuller

Victor: "I would say that the existence or non-existence of God is a religious question/issue." Whether or not some particular intelligent agent is responsible for the existence of the universe is not *only* a "religious question/issue." Go down the list of deities; each one either really exists, or it doesn't. - Christopher A Carr

To be fair, the existence/non-existence of Yahweh, Set, Quetzalcoatl, Quaoar, Eris, or Cthulhu can also be considered philosophical questions. What they aren't are scientific questions, since it's probably impossible to prove whether or not they exist. - Victor Ganata

People who believe in Yahweh make empirical claims. Yahweh either created the Earth, or he didn't. He either fathered himself or he didn't. - Christopher A Carr

Science perhaps ought not have much concern with deism or pantheism, but theism is a different matter. - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, certainly, there are some who take the Bible literally, but, realistically, they're a minority. A lot of Catholics I know don't think there is any inconsistency between the metaphors employed in Genesis and the physical creation of the Universe as described by the Big Bang. And it's simply not possible to test whether or not there was an omniscient/omnipotent entity that... more... - Victor Ganata

@Jimminy, I read the article, but I'm not sure what point you're making? Are you saying logic is a religion? That using logic makes you religious? Atheism is not a religion based on logic. Look, I don't believe in magical pixies. So I'm an apixieist, too. Does that mean apixieism is a religion? I don't believe in pixies for the same reason I don't believe in Thor, there's no good reason to believe in either. - cdogzilla

Chris, it seems like the point of the article is that some atheists do practice it like a religion. - Victor Ganata

Chris: But, but, the fact that you would be interested in what is only a religious question makes you religious. ;-) Pfft. - Christopher A Carr

OK, so the point of my OP is that if Taoism is a religion, I don't understand why atheism isn't a religion, too. But if Taoism is a philosophy, not a religion, then I can understand why atheism isn't a religion. - Victor Ganata

Chris, Atheists pride themselves on being more logical than the the religious, but the remark you made was because of something that Atheists also perform, which is makes that an illogical reason to be an Atheist. I consider any religious view to be a religion, which includes the disbelief of deities or the belief there are no dieties, is a religion. - Jimminy Fuller

So. Is Taoism a religion? - Victor Ganata

Here we go again. Didn't we have this discussion before? By definition, atheism is not a religion. Of course, Alex likes to make up definitions to fit his opinions. We all got used to that, ;) - Alejandro

Jimminy: Do *you* believe in Thor? - Christopher A Carr

Victor: Which Taoism are you talking about? - Christopher A Carr

Christopher: just what you get from the Tao Te Ching. From what I remember, there are no mention of any deities, and nothing that seems to contravene physical law. - Victor Ganata

As an Atheist, Atheism is my religious choice, and thus it is my religion, it is the belief structure by which I live. No I don't believe in Thor, I don't believe in any of the Norse Gods, why do we keep bringing this up. - Jimminy Fuller

Which sense of the polysemous "religion" are you using? - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, by your definition of religion, does Taoism as described by the Tao Te Ching constitute a religion? - Victor Ganata

Stop it, you guys! :p Or I'll have to refer you all to that XKCD about "I can't get off of the computer right now. Someone on the internet is wrong!" Thinking of that is what made me bow out. - Kamilah Gill

LOL, Kamilah. I don't think anyone is necessarily wrong here. I'm just curious what people think. Most discussions of theism versus atheism always seem to neglect Eastern philosophies/religions. It wasn't until this discussion that I came across the idea of being an atheist (in the sense that you don't believe in supreme deity) but still believing in a spiritual tradition. Since there are a lot of avowed atheists on FF, I was wondering if they thought that was valid. - Victor Ganata

Jimminy: Not subscribing to any religious tenet does not a religion make, unless you've your own special definition of the term. Victor: I would say it falls a bit short of being a religion -- more a philosophical school. - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, so in your definition of religion, theism is mandatory? Or is there another reason why Taoism falls short of being a religion? - Victor Ganata

I guess it depends on what "definition" of atheism we're using. I do not believe that God exists. I believe that God does not exist. Subtle but crucial difference. Christopher et al seems to be arguing the former, while Victor et al seem to be using the latter. I subscribe to the former view. Also, it is entirely possible to be a theist and agnostic. - Chieze Okoye

Chieze, but can you be an atheist and spiritual? I still think that disbelief is equivalent to belief, in the same way that negative numbers and positive numbers are all still numbers, but I guess that's a matter of taste. - Victor Ganata

Victor: What does "spiritual" mean? - Christopher A Carr

Christopher: heh, that's a good question. I guess mostly the kinds of things that the NY Times article Jimminy linked to mentions. Atheistic spiritualism does seem to fit Taoism in a way. - Victor Ganata

Victor: RE: Taoism -- On second thought, Taoism is so interwoven with Chinese folk religion and has had so many different manifestations, and is, at its core, concerned enough with metaphysical explanations, that I can't say I'm exactly sure what it is. - Christopher A Carr

see, that's my thing. I think that "belief" is a willful act. If I don't think that one not believing in the existence of something automatically equals the belief in its non-existence. For instance, if one has never concerned oneself with religion and whether or not God exists then that's a different idea than someone who's thought and considered and came to the conclusion (or belief) that God doesn't exist. - Chieze Okoye

Victor: Read the article. Still have no idea what you mean by "spiritual." - Christopher A Carr

Which does lead me to a more nit-picky question. Most atheists I've met seem to specifically disbelieve in the Christian God. Is it necessary to disbelieve in a supreme being? If you specifically disbelieved in Odin and Thor, would that make you an atheist? Are ghosts, ancestors, or spirits of nature considered deities? - Victor Ganata

I'm in disbelief that God or Gods exist = I cannot believe that God or Gods exist = Agnosticism :: I believe there to be no god or gods = Atheism. Yet the most radical of "Atheists" prefer the first, because it doesn't label them as a religion. Since Christopher, would like to know what meaning of religion I use, "Our ideological and traditional heritage." It being an ideology because... more... - Jimminy Fuller

But that's just beliefs. I still don't think, even given that someone can believe in no God, that that behavior constitutes a religion. The ritualistic part of the definition is critical and being conveniently ignored in this discussion. - Chieze Okoye

Yeah, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say by "spirituality", Christopher. I have to think about it some mroe. - Victor Ganata

and Victor, to your earlier question, I do think that one can be atheistic and spiritual. "I believe that there is no all- or super-powerful diety or dieties, but I believe that there are metaphysical forces that we don't understand" seems perfectly fine to me. - Chieze Okoye

Chieze, I guess I don't think that ritual is necessary for religion but I suppose the problem is that we all have such varying definitions of religion. - Victor Ganata

yes, that's definitely true. - Chieze Okoye

Chieze: Why would you call elements of the universe not yet understood "spiritual?" - Christopher A Carr

Chieze, thanks! That's the word I'm looking for. Metaphysical. That's what I'm mean by "spiritual." - Victor Ganata

Christopher, hmm, good question, but your use of yet is elucidating. Let me get back to you in a second. - Chieze Okoye

Jimminy: I'm not persuaded by the arguments for theism = atheism (that's me). It is impossible to prove that some entity -- provided it is defined as existing outside the natural order -- does or does not exist = agnosticism. (that's also me). Jimminy, your usage of "agnosticism" is somewhat idiosyncratic. - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, I guess I would use the word metaphysics not to describe physical processes not yet understood, but to describe knowledge or experiences that will always lie beyond the auspices of experimental science. - Victor Ganata

Ok, here's my thinking: I don't know that the metaphysical forces in "spirituality" are something that can be known. Partly because I think most of the time they are defined as being unprovable by human observable means. It's just a term that I'm using as shorthand to refer to those set of beliefs. All I was saying in that previous statement was that it's not really hard for me to... more... - Chieze Okoye

Or to put it another way, can you be an atheist, but still believe in UFOs or ghosts? - Victor Ganata

Victor: I'm a naturalist. I don't think there's anything in the universe that will "always lie beyond the auspices of experimental science" for any reason other than some upper limit on human intellect. All real phenomena are part of the natural order. "Super-natural" is to me a meaningless term. - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, when did I say theism = atheism? The first point doesn't lend comparison doesn't lend itself to Atheism, purely agnostic views, to be an Atheist you would have to agree on the belief that deities do not exist. However Atheism is a religion based on the ideological factors that come with it influence my actions. - Jimminy Fuller

Jimminy: You miss-parsed the passage. Also, I didn't attribute it to you. - Christopher A Carr

Jimminy (and others), you're confusing being "religious about" atheism with being "religious". Can I be "religious about" vegetarianism? If so, am I being "religious"? - Edward Zwart

Jimminy: "However Atheism is a religion based on the ideological factors that come with it influence my actions." Ethical systems are religions, then? "Atheism" isn't even an ethical system. - Christopher A Carr

This is why the "rituals" and "belief in existence of a god or gods" are critical parts to the functional definition of the word "religion." Anything else rapidly becomes the set of all beliefs and all systems. - Chieze Okoye

Christopher: do you believe it's physically possible to observe any phenomena preceding the Big Bang? Or to see beyond the light horizon that's continuing to recede because of the expansion of dark energy? Or even to see inside the event horizon of a black hole? There are plenty of things that can't be tested experimentally. - Victor Ganata

Victor: Those are natural, more-or-less understood phenomena. I didn't say that humans can in principle do anything or know everything. In other words, we can't have access to all information in the universe, but there are comprehensible (at least to something) reason why that's the case -- natural reasons. - Christopher A Carr

Christopher: well, so that's what I mean by metaphysical--things that lie beyond the information that we can access. How can something that can't be observed, even indirectly, be considered comprehensible though? - Victor Ganata

Exactly [edit] oops, misread that last sentence, i take it back! - Edward Zwart

Humans needn't be able to access information about some phenomena for it to be natural. - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, with the choice of Atheism, you are deeming that their are no other planes you will see, you will not be reincarnated into heaven nor earth, thus you must choose your actions wisely. Those that will not result in effects that reduce ones life. With Atheism comes the ideological effects of preserving oneself, and embracing every moment one has, because there are no second chances. - Jimminy Fuller

If ghosts are "real," then they are non super-natural. - Christopher A Carr

Jimminy: "With Atheism comes the ideological effects of preserving oneself, and embracing every moment one has, because there are no second chances." Not necessarily. - Christopher A Carr

Seeing it as a choice is odd to me... - Edward Zwart

If you practice something, or believe in any god, then you are not an atheist, but a follower of a belief. On the other hand atheism is a belief too, but unlike religion it is not a "system" If somebody goes out and starts to build atheist churches, decide the holy day of the week, then it becomes a belief system, aka religion. - Onur Gündüz

Christopher, "not necessarily" you mean there are other lives? - Jimminy Fuller

OK, I see what you mean. So we can't really rule out super-powerful non-corporeal hyperintelligences as being supernatural either. - Victor Ganata

Jimminy, that's another misparse of what Christopher is saying. You're saying that this belief MUST CAUSE this reaction. He's saying that that "MUST CAUSE" you threw in there is not necessarily the case. I can believe in no God and no after life and no whatever else, and be perfectly fine with wasting my life away. - Chieze Okoye

No, Jimminy -- I mean your conclusion doesn't logically follow from your premises. Not believing in a deity doesn't not oblige me to "embrace every moment." - Christopher A Carr

Victor: Correct. There may be weakly-"god-like" hyper-intelligences out there. If there are, they are natural. - Christopher A Carr

But back to the question: can you be an atheist and still believe in ghosts and UFOs? - Victor Ganata

Victor: yes, I think so myself. - Chieze Okoye

Atheism, exists on a quantum plane then, it is a religion and it is not a religion. Because for me it has brought along ideological changes, and for you it has not. The way I've experienced it is a religion, for you it is not. - Jimminy Fuller

Bringing about "ideological changes" makes things a religion? Then I suppose Maoism is a religion. - Christopher A Carr

I think that NY Times article certainly demonstrates that some atheists believe that atheism can fulfill the same roles as religion, although I guess this doesn't mean it actually is one. - Victor Ganata

@Victor, I think the answer to your question is yes. It's possible, and common, for humans to hold 2 apparently contradictory positions at once. It's not dissimilar to a scientist who is also religious. - Edward Zwart

Victor: I don't see why not. They may be convinced that "UFOs" are human-piloted vessels from the future, and they may think that we just haven't figured out what ghosts are yet...if they're both an atheist and a naturalist. But I suppose there exist atheists that aren't particularly naturalists. - Christopher A Carr

@Jimminy: Is Democracy a religion? How about the belief in age seniority? Again, disconnecting the word "religion" from the specific belief of a god or gods and having a set of rituals that you follow along with that belief isn't doing any favors because the argument reduces to "any set of beliefs at all is a religion" which is a silly statement. - Chieze Okoye

Edward, I guess I don't see either example as being contradictory :D - Victor Ganata

Yeah, I do, but I'm not trying to prove that they are... Pick any two contradictory thoughts then. Can a person hold contradictory beliefs? I think we see it all the time. - Edward Zwart

I guess my question was, more generally, as long as you don't believe in a supreme deity, can you believe in other supernatural phenomenon and still be an atheist? Or does believe in such things nullify your status as an atheist? Like, do you get excommunicated from the non-church of atheism? :D Or do other atheists laugh and point whenever they see you? - Victor Ganata

Great conversation guys, but I have to go home now. Later. - Chieze Okoye

Chieze, a belief that leads to ideological factors is what I was getting at, of course any belief itself isn't a religion, it has to result in some set of actions based around that belief. Which Atheism has done for me. - Jimminy Fuller

I can be an atheist and believe that there is life on other planets that may have greater intelligence of space travel than humans. So yes, an Atheist can believe in UFOs. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

However, one that strongly believes in the Bible cannot as it disrupts a major core in the belief that man was created in his image. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Jimminy: Any belief that results in "some set of actions based around that belief" is a religion. Is the perception that one needs to urinate, a religion? - Christopher A Carr

@Victor, Christopher has already amply addressed supernatural versus not-yet-understood... As far as finding people who want to join the atheist camp but still cling to some pretty indefensible positions, check out the Atheists, Agnostics, Skeptics, Freethinkers, Secular Humanists, & the Non Religious lending group on http://www.kiva.org. I've always thought that name was awesome because it's so inclusive, but it also has its drawbacks (not too many people don't think of themselves as a freethinker!). - Edward Zwart

Manielse, not bible aspect isn't necessarily true, it just depends on the interpretation, there is a quote I found in a text a few years ago which actually makes it a valid point that man was created in his image. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - -- -- - - - - -- " God is the creator, the omnipotent controller of our plane. Man as a whole shall be creators with omnipotent rule over... more... - Jimminy Fuller

Isn't it obvious that man created god? - Edward Zwart

Christopher, "urinate a religion"? - Jimminy Fuller

I know the Catholic church burned Giordano Bruno at the stake for his theory of many worlds, but I think the Vatican finally apologized for that a few years ago. :D - Victor Ganata

Edward, exactly my point, Manielse said that one who strongly believes the Bible cannot be an Atheist, because it disrupts the belief that man was created in "his" image. Not exactly if he also believes that. - Jimminy Fuller

Jimminy: Are we still having a hard time parsing English? - Christopher A Carr

I would have thought that "one who strongly believes the Bible cannot be an Atheist" would also be obvious. - Edward Zwart

Edward, well what I got from Christopher's response is that there isn't anything that's supernatural. If any of those phenomena are real, then it's going to be completely natural. But what if you believe in fairies or elves? Zombies or vampires? Unicorns and centaurs? Things that clearly cannot be natural, at least according to the laws of physics as they apply to the observable universe. Is such a person still an atheist so long as they don't believe in a supreme being? - Victor Ganata

Is someone who professes to be a vegan but hunts still a vegan? At that point, it's just a definitional problem, and extremely boring. - Edward Zwart

Christopher, the statement made no sense, what so ever, I'm sorry you're apparently having a hard time writing English statements that make sense, could you please explain how one sucks a fuck also? - Jimminy Fuller

Yes, please explain that Christopher! - Edward Zwart

Edward, well, yeah, that's what I'm getting at. What's the definition of an atheist? Is it simply the disbelief in a supreme deity, or does being an atheist also require you to eschew all things supernatural? Clearly, the definition of being a vegan requires that you not kill animals. - Victor Ganata

Jimminy: [[Is the perception that one needs to urinate] [a religion]]? not [[Is the perception that one needs to] [urinate a religion]]? Earlier, you completely misconstrued what manielse wrote. - Christopher A Carr

Victor: No, my point before was that an Atheist cannot believe in a supernatural being from an act of God but more centered around some form of science. Though Unicorns and other examples do not exist today, mutations and cross-breeding may very well produce an Unicorn someday. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

@Victor Here's another response to your question... I think what you're driving at is that an atheist quite likely might have arrived at that position, or might describe why they are one, by appealing to a lack of evidence for the theistic stance. And there are MANY things in this world that people believe with scant evidence, like UFOs or ghosts... If one calls oneself an atheist based... more... - Edward Zwart

Jimminy: Which was in response to this: "...any belief itself isn't a religion, it has to result in some set of actions based around that belief." - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, oh, you know what, it's actually possible to parse English if you use the correct punctuation, you ommited a comma, which creates a break there. I'm sorry that you write syntactically incorrect English. - Jimminy Fuller

(Psst, Jimminy, that's a run-on sentence. You inserted a comma where you shouldn't have...) :D - Edward Zwart

I guess what I'm wondering is if atheists ever call each other out, like how religious folk brand each other as heretics. :D - Victor Ganata

Oh shit, is that what you're asking?! The answer is YES, all the time! - Edward Zwart

Jimminy: I'm happy to paste some of your half-mangled prose here, if you want to be a dick. - Christopher A Carr

LOL! Which makes me wonder again, how is atheism different from any other religion, then? :D - Victor Ganata

Ghosts is an interesting argument though as the traditional definition means that it is a type of life after death in the form of a spirit. If you believe in that type of definition of a ghost, it does question whether you believe in an after life. BUT, belief in an after life does not directly translate into the belief of a higher being. So, by definition of Atheist meaning the belief that there is no God, you still are an Atheist with a different subset of beliefs. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

So, theoretically an animist who doesn't believe in supreme deities could be an atheist. - Victor Ganata

Strictly speaking, a deist can be an atheist. - Christopher A Carr

Victor, the common characteristic that you just discovered is simply the willingness to call out others on inconsistency. That's not enough to say atheism is a religion fuck! er... - Edward Zwart

I've had it with this thread. - Christopher A Carr

I guess Victor, theoretically an animist would be that exact classification of my last post. "Animism" means simply "a belief in souls". Different views of some beliefs but both agree there is no higher power God. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Argh, please forgive the outburst. It looks so bad in print! But it's exactly what I said to myself. :) - Edward Zwart

Edward, LOL, I realize that isn't proof that atheism is a religion. I guess the point you're making is that humans still exhibit similar behaviors no matter what they believe :D - Victor Ganata

Everyone has a religion, including what we call Agnostics and Atheists. Without one's religion, it assumes that one has never thought about anything surrounding religious beliefs which I'm pretty sure everyone has (unless you are very young or have mental disorders). We as humans like to label things into groups because it's our nature to classify things together and in this case we are classifying individual beliefs into subset groupings. Therefore belief in no God is a subset grouping of religious beliefs - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Argh -- ok, maniels: "Without one's religion, it assumes that one has never thought about anything surrounding religious beliefs which I'm pretty sure everyone has (unless you are very young or have mental disorders)." Contemplating subject matter that's also contemplated by people who subscribe to some religion, does not necessarily mean that one "has a religion." - Christopher A Carr

OK Chris, what's your definition of religion? (Sorry if it's buried above somewhere) - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

From Wikipedia: A religion is a system of human thought which usually includes a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, deity or deities, or ultimate truth....It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which... more... - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Explain to me how anyone cannot have religion in that definition? - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Manielse, I do not "believe in no god", I simply do not believe in a god or gods. Atheism, in my case at least, is not a belief system. - (dot)lizard kelly

From wikipedia: "Atheism can be either the rejection of theism, or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities." If it is a rejection of theism (which it is in my case), that is not a religion. It's the rejection of religion. - (dot)lizard kelly

But God is only one element to one's religious belief system. That element is only a checkmark in your set of beliefs. There are other checkmarks such as belief in an after-life (most Aesthetics no but Animist yes), belief in karma, extrasensory perception (ESP), etc. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I do not have a "belief" system - I don't think in those terms. It's a human instinct to believe in unseen forces, but unless you can express them in the form of an equation, I will not "believe" them to be true. I do not subscribe to mysticism or mythology. - (dot)lizard kelly

Ascribing a 'belief system' to a skeptic is like trying to figure out which type of fish a squirrel is. - (dot)lizard kelly

manielse: You said that (nearly) everyone has a religion because everyone has thought about things "surrounding religious beliefs." I sometimes think about class issues, so do Marxists -- but *I'm not a Marxist*. - Christopher A Carr

I wonder; is not believing in astrology a type of religion? - Christopher A Carr

Fair enough (dot)lizard. But in simple terms, you've come to the conclusion that unexplained equations are simply unexplained at this point in time but there is an explanation through science or logic that man just cannot grasp yet. So you have established a 'belief system' that a supernatural force does not exist in anywhere but in one's mind. You may not think in those terms but those are your conclusions to religion. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Chris: Now your just grouping people in a different order. Political beliefs, same argument that one must have their own collection of Political beliefs. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I think it's very theist-centric to identify any thought process that involves the unknown as religious. It's the same argument used by creationists claiming their blind faith should be taught alongside science. - (dot)lizard kelly

Astrology was the foundation of all the ancient faiths: Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman, Zoroastrian, Mithraism, the Druids and the Norse gods. It's a subset. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Atheism is definitely a religion. I shall quote Brie from Desperate Housewives: "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifferent." Using the same logic, atheism is a religion, however agnosticism is not. - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

A subset of what? Wait, you mean those religions are subsets of astrology? I'm not sure what you're on about at this point. - Christopher A Carr

I think, to be more general, everyone has a set of metaphysical beliefs--ways they deal with things that don't have a well-known or easily discoverable natural answer. For a lot of people these beliefs come pre-packaged via religion. But I think atheism also fulfills this role, even if it isn't a religion. - Victor Ganata

As a native Chinese growing up in Hong Kong, I should state that Taoism is not a religion. Nor is Buddhism. Both are philosophy which does not reference a figure to be worshipped (a god). That people worship certain buddhist leaders as a god is a religion of their own, but the philosophy of how to live life itself is not a religion per se. - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

Victor: The way I deal with not understanding why the universe bothers to exist is to say "I don't know." How is that religion-like? - Christopher A Carr

Skepticism means that things which do not have a well-known or easily discoverable answer become fascinating areas of study, as long as there is some rational basis to expect, based on the current experiential data, that there is a scientific principle involved. Metaphysical beliefs fulfill my desire to understand the scientific basis for things in the same way water fulfills my need for something to breathe. - (dot)lizard kelly

Christopher, I'm not saying it's religion-like. I'm looking at it from the other end--what needs do religions fulfill? One of them is to help people answer questions they don't know the answers to. Obviously, the other approach is to keep things in abeyance, accept that you simply don't know, and wait for more data. I still think atheism have some explanatory power with regards to why the universe is the way it is. - Victor Ganata

See-ming, I read that Buddhism identifies itself as a religion, and not a philosophy. As a philosophy, it appeals to me, because there are so many delightful thought puzzles with which to explore ones own cognitive process. - (dot)lizard kelly

I'm not sure about the Agnostic is not part, maybe in the general classification sense. An Agnostic person is undecided on the issue and it's not important to them to try to answer the unknown but they still are not completely neutral on all religious topics on an individual level. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Oh, and Victor? this is an AWESOME thread, thank you for starting it. I am having so much fun. - (dot)lizard kelly

I would like to add one more example: believing in the design philosophy of Apple is not a religion, nor is liking their product designs. However, blindly following Apple for everything that they are, as well as seeing everything that Steve Jobs says is golden is a religion (or rather, a cult). As is Windows-7 trashers and perma-Microsoft hating. that's a religion :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

Yes, it's a great thread, thank you! - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

As an example of things metaphysics helps people cope with, probably one of the first "hard" questions kids face is mortality. It's not something we have an instinctual knowledge about. Most religions have pat answers for it. But it's also something that atheism seems to be able to answer: your consciousness disintegrates, your body decays, and that's all there is, there ain't no mo'... more... - Victor Ganata

@(dot)lizard.kelly I believe that modern Buddhism (or perhaps the majority of people practicing Buddhism these days) do worship a central figure Siddhartha Gautama aka Buddha - in an idol form. And they believe that by praying / meditating to the figure will bring them some form of miracle. However, that form of Buddhism is not really what the philosophy of Buddhism is about. Buddhism is a philosophy about selflessness. - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

See-ming, yes, exactly. Any time a person abandons logic and facts in favor of following blindly, whether it's Steve Jobs or Ron Paul or Glenn Beck, it's a type of religion/cult. - (dot)lizard kelly

Belief is by definition suspension of logic and reason. - Brian Sullivan

@manielse I think (and I can be wrong) but at least in my view agnosticism is about indifference of religious views - I identify myself as an agnostic - as I see myself as understanding the context of religion, why they are the way they are but I am indifferent about them. I certainly don't condemn nor wish to start a holywar against one another. - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

As an agnostic (which I am but lean more towards no existence of a Higher Power but I have no definitive proof to discard the possibility completely), I think all major religions have appealing philosophies and overall moral claims. None I can call my own though as no human can fully define an unknown in an absolute term. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

See-ming, that's the other conflict I have with Buddhist teachings / philosophy, aside from the mysticism. True selflessness is not a rational basis for living in this world, unfortunately. To follow those teachings would be impractical, to say the least. - (dot)lizard kelly

Using geekdom examples again, there is far more hate in the Mac vs Windows war. Personally I don't give a damn. I use them all and I think that Linux is the best - but I am not in the business of condemning any of these software or starting viral ad campaigns to trash those systems! In this view, I'm an OS agnostic with love for the penguin. :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

SML: Look back in the thread for quite a bit on agnosticism and epistemology. - Christopher A Carr

OK, I hate the philosophies and culture of Apple. I have a strong religious view there, not in the OS but the company... :-) - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

@(dot)lizard.kelly Well, is it impractical? Not necessarily. Suggested reading: Happiness: A guide to developing life's most important skill by Matthieu Ricard. In the Life Hack section on my Amazon Listmania Lists: http://bit.ly/smlamazon :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

See-ming, My personal preferences run to bleeding-edge beta versions of MS, but I have had Macs and once went cold turkey to nothing but Linux. And I work as a web developer, so I must consider the followers of all OS and browsers in my work. - (dot)lizard kelly

@Christopher.A.Carr Yes I will. Typing in my bed as we speak. Barely holding up. I might have to revisit this thread when I get up in the morning! Great thread you guys! - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

See-ming, I will definitely check out that book, but what I meant is not that selflessness is bad, just that balance is the key - I do many, many things altruistically - with an honest generosity and without expectation of return. However I do not do this exclusively, or excessively. If I did, I believe I would become an easy victim. - (dot)lizard kelly

Chris: Good point about epistemology. Using that theory, knowledge about a belief does not entail an endorsement of its truth. For example, "I know about astrology, but I don't believe in it" is perfectly acceptable. It is also possible that someone believes in astrology but knows virtually nothing about it. But in both cases, they established a subjective conclusive belief for themself. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

So using that analogy, (dot)lizard "knows about religion, but doesn't believe in it" but has still established a subjective conclusive belief around religion which is would still be classified as a religious belief none-the-less. So to bring this evening full circle: "null is still part of a set" as Alex stated.and therefore Atheism is a religion due to establishing that they do not endorse God or other religions. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

A religious belief does not a religion make. Necessary, but not sufficient. - Chieze Okoye

And I still think that the "null is part of set" argument is misused in this discussion, but I'm too tired to put it into words right now. Ok, I think I got it. The flaw I think is in how Alex framed it. The question isn't "how many religions are in this bucket?" (the equivalent of Alex's bean example) but "is atheism a member of the set of things that are religions?" which, just like... more... - Chieze Okoye

@Christopher.A.Carr I've just spent the last half hour reading all the reference materials. Learned a new term. I guess I would be considered an apatheist by wikipedia definition (though I don't generally take wikipedia as the bible (pun intended) :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

@LogEx Thanks for your reference to apatheism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... "Apatheism (a portmanteau of apathy and theism/atheism), also known as pragmatic or critically as practical atheism, is acting with apathy, disregard, or *lack of interest* towards belief, or lack of belief in a deity." - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

As an fyi, Tao Te Ching 道德經 means the Book of Ethics, and that's basically what it is. Why Taoism is considered a 'religion' in modern view is odd to me. You can read about it here in Chinese http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw... or English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - These are Chinese classical philosophy. Definitely not a religion. - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

@Chieze.Okoye Well said! - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

thanks SML. 8^) Oh, and now that I'm rested, I just realized another thing that bugged me about the "null is part of a set" explanation. In set theory, NULL isn't just a thing that doesn't have the property that you're asking about, NULL is the thing that has no property whatsoever. NULL isn't just the absence of belief, NULL is the absence of everything. Clearly this doesn't apply to atheism (since atheism is not nothing). - Chieze Okoye

OK, I submit that the set theory analogy doesn't quite work. But the zero analogy does. Zero is still a measurable quantity. Something with a temperature of zero still has a temperature. Zero miles per hour is still a velocity. Zero feet above sea level is still an altitude. Not believing in gods is still a belief about gods. Not following any religion is still a stance with regards to religion. Are those last two statements enough to make a set of beliefs a religion? Maybe not. - Victor Ganata

I think a religion implies a belief IN gods rather than a belief ABOUT gods. - Kevin Pedraja

But a belief IN gods is still a belief ABOUT gods. - Victor Ganata

I think I've changed my position while thinking about this deeper last night and this am. The Opposite of Atheism would actually be Omnitheism (there may be a term beyond but irrelevant in my hypothesis) so the answer is not just 0 or 1 but rather 0 to ∞ in Alex's set theory model of everything is in a set. Assuming this set is true, These are the defined outer boundaries of theism in a... more... - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Again Victor, the number theory of zero doesn't really apply either. It's all definition. Your definition of "religion" is "all numbers." My definition of "religion" is "all positive numbers." Now zero doesn't fit into my set of things called "religion." - Chieze Okoye

Fair enough, it really is all about definitions. The question is, I suppose, only really important when it comes to policy and legislation. In those realms, would you want atheism to be considered a religion, or not? - Victor Ganata

"But a belief IN gods is still a belief ABOUT gods." The reverse is not necessarily the case. - Christopher A Carr

In the sense that I want it protected by the 1st Amendment? Yes, I do. Should the 1st Amendment call it "religion" rather than "belief systems" or something more accurate? Not really. - Chieze Okoye

Good question, Victor. As Chesterton said: "What a man believes depends on his philosophy, not on the clock or the century." and "a man who believes in nothing will believe in anything." So the question rightly will be: Who's philosophy will you adopt? Because there won't be a vacuum, something will fill it. - Melanie Reed

The 1st Amendment includes Atheism whether or not it is a religion, it states religions or the choice to not follow any religion, via Freedom of Religion. - Jimminy Fuller

oh, there you go. - Chieze Okoye

Jimminy, do you know the name of the case that decided that? I imagine it's something fairly recent? I realize that is what the text of the amendment does describe, but I'm wondering when it was first tested in court. - Victor Ganata

Ah. So the position of the Supreme Court is that, for the purposes of the First Amendment, atheism is equivalent to a religion, even if its adherents don't think it is one. (The plaintiff in the case was apparently quite adamant about atheism not being a religion.) - Victor Ganata

Victor from what I can tell, it's always been part of the definition, I don't know that any case decided it. But possibly 1994, with Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Jimminy Fuller

Wikipedia and Google eventually lead me to this case: Kaufman v Mccaughtry United States Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit. - 419 F.3d 678 http://cases.justia.com/us-cour... "we have suggested in the past that when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of 'ultimate concern' that for her occupy a 'place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons,' those beliefs represent her religion." - Victor Ganata

wow I got here way too late. Sad. I just want to put in my minor thoughts.. Null != 0 (as opposed to what the very first comment suggested. And you can very much be both Atheist and Agnostic. Just because you believe something doesn't mean you know it to be true. I believe there are no Gods of any kind; I'm fully an atheist. However, I also willingly admit I don't know if my belief is... more... - Bill Rawlinson

Karoli

My fortune cookie: you will soon witness a miracle. I take that literally.

September 28 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

(dot)lizard kelly liked this

Robert Scoble

I am following anyone who says whether or not they like http://twitter.com/scoblei... Why? Only geeks are up right now. :-)

September 26 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Charlie Ramirez, Susan Beebe, Ahad Bokhari and 19 other people liked this

*outted* - Micah Wittman

58 more comments

I like. Mixture of tech and humor. - Laura Norvig

I like super geeky....More dev talk the betta - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

I like your feesd but dont like the tiled background please change it - Atif UNALDI

i don't like the tiled background....i think you need a new one - Anthony Feint

Wots title background ? - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

oh yes, sneaking a look over scoble's shoulder is interesting - Michele Costabile

only geeks are up right now:? then Milan is a geek! - Laura Norvig

Geeks are supposed to be asleep right now? - Jesse Stay

Tell me about it @jesse I haven't slept from 48 hours now - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Rackspace brooch on twitter but not on ff : ) - mehmet

I never sleep. - Faraz Mullick

I finally got my nightowl powers back...the sickness took them away for a bit! :( - Carlton Hackett

After 48 hours coffee and tea has stopped working now...Any tips ? - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Just when I think I lost my sleepness nights, they find me again. But anyhoo...still up and at 'em. :P - Jon, the Chilled Beartato

Of course I'm up it's 10 am here. The favs list is great because one can look just when and if one wants and it reduces the number of RTs. - Michael Slattery

Well most of the Uk is up right now thats alot to follow ;-) - Yant

Time update its 1:55 PM in here - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

When should I pencil in the next mass Twitter unfollowing for? - Johnny Worthington

Guys, what are continuous max hours you haven't slept ? - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

25 hours at work is my record - Michele Costabile

WOW 25 hrs continues work...Great - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Mine is 48 hrs but online at home - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Michele: Please tell me you got overtime ? - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Hey at least FriendFeed doesn't limit my API use. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

YAY...welcome to FF Robert - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Feel Free to join in :D - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

LOL You are wrong :) All Europe is up right now. ;) - Roldano

And India as well [ Time Update : 2:08 PM] - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

France actually been up for a while - marsupilamima

Marsupilamima: Bonjour...Thats the only bit of French I know..... - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Been up for a while : in a different timezone Robert : does that count ? - Nicholas Paul Gordon from iPhone

I am up | All geeks are up | I am still a geek ;) - MK35540

I am a Proud GEEK and wanna be friends with all the other geeks... - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Interesting favorites twits, but yes the background has to be changed! :-) - Stefano Pietroiusti from twhirl

Guys/Gals on this thread, As we all are geeks lets subscribe to each other...I don't mind :) what say ? - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

I really like it, and plan on stealing the idea for a couple specialty Twitter accounts. I wish everyone used favorites. Social search is the future, for me anyway. - Justin Luey from FreshFeed

Justin: True, Social search is the future. Human data is precious - Sunny (The Geek Lord)

Yeah I don't mind it, would just prefer it if done on FF rather than the bird site, but I understand the reasons though. - Travis Koger

it's 5:18 AM, so quiet everyone, too much noise can't sleep. Do like the favorite thing though - Kim Landwehr

what if I don't have an opinion because I don't follow? does that make me a non geek? edit: also. yes. tiled background bad! - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

I love your twitter favorites & check those out regularly! - Jannifer @wordsforliving

Robert, I scan your favorites to look for interesting new blog and sites... I like this approach; much better than only using the retweet - Jeroen De Miranda

Is your background the shot that Chase took of you in Seattle? - Kevin Pedraja

Kevin: Kris Krug took the shot while on Chase Jarvis' photowalk. Chase' lighting guy is holding the light, though. - Robert Scoble

Scoble: Some of us are on other timezones LOL - RK

Don't like the background btw :P - RK

Robert, has anyone thanked you for doing this? If not, thanks. - Kevin Pedraja

It's a good way to choose people to follow - Sherrie Belken

You favored one of my blog posts, cool! - Marko Saric

thx for the follow. I don't tweet all that much - mostly hang out here. I do tweet more consistently for my work persona, @serviceresource - Laura Norvig

Thanks,have a great wknd - Johni Fisher

Does being indifferent count? ;-) - Jason Huebel

Scoble I liked it well enough that I subscribed to the RSS feed a few weeks ago. It's a best of Twitter list that I really enjoy. - Keith - @tsudo

You have a pretty low bar set for being a favorite - jason smathers

what else to do lol - Gaith

I am not a Geek reason? I am an old dude....but I like to follow Robert anyway....informative for me and entertaining.... - Bob DeMarco

some of the favorites are ok. - rob friedman

Total geek here - said that, still believe in curating the best content from the web. For some reason I couldn't drill down past the separator in your faves list.. - Ahad Bokhari

Say "whether or not they like" - Robert Higgins

johnpiercy

Stuff I found in my top drawer .. still works ehehehh Old tech - http://twitpic.com/j7a9d

September 26 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

(dot)lizard kelly, Michelle, Eric Matas and Derrick liked this

I had the cassette player model!! - Derrick

5 more comments

You have a few podcasts to listen to there... - Simon Wicks

found U2 Zooropa CD in the one on the left ... - johnpiercy

every time we go through the stuff in the basement the question comes up: what to do with the 2 portable CD players, throw away, keep because "you never know" or?? - Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)

was looking for my 28.8 US Robotics Modem Card.. to show @paisano .. didnt find it .. found these hehehe - johnpiercy

Im sure someone who has never seen a CD player might want it ,,, I know people in Guatemala that would love this sort of thing .. - johnpiercy

classic! wow...I found a walkman in a box..but it's broken :( - Anna Lynn M.

Jason Pollock

FRIENDFEEDERS: I Will Be Hosting a LIVE CHAT on this thread for a bit.. Come chat with me!:)

September 23 - Comment - Like - Share

Cora Allison, Rob Madden, Jesse Stay and 17 other people liked this

Good evening Friendfeed! - Jason Pollock

1164 more comments

is anyone around this evening? - Jason Pollock

I'm wondering if its too late to start this live chat - Jason Pollock

Im wondering this becuz its already almost midnight here on the west coast and that may be a bit too late for this. - Jason Pollock

Yeah, I am! So are you against #ProjectRT or just for protesting it via abstinence? - Joshua Fears

Perhaps some of my international friends will be up. - Jason Pollock

good evening Jason :) - Meesh

Joshua: i havent tried it yet so im not sure how i feel about it. - Jason Pollock

I am worried that Twitter will roll something out before its ready tho - Jason Pollock

whats up Jason? - Joseph Peterson

Hi - Shaida Efron from iPod

Gotcha, just checking because I've seen that you're advocating that method of protest. - Joshua Fears

If twitter rolls out something that isnt ready then the community will go nutz - Jason Pollock

hi shaida! - Jason Pollock

How are you? - Shaida Efron from iPod

yes, nuts like we do when facebook rolls stuff out and it goes haywire ( i.e. chat, notifications,applications..) - Meesh

What up, Yo? - Kimberly Thompson

Alright I'll let you accrete your army of followers here. Big fan of your film. I'll be at my local theatre on opening night as soon as it's picked up by a distributor. - Joshua Fears

meesh: exactly, but i think this will be much worse. - Jason Pollock

kimberly: hi!:) - Jason Pollock

sup Jason - Hugh Guiney

joshua: thanks dude! i hope my film gets picked up soon. that would rock! - Jason Pollock

hugh: welcome! - Jason Pollock

thank you - Hugh Guiney

Thanks to everyone for being here. - Jason Pollock

Hi All what are we discussing ?? - Ramona Luvs Life

WE're discussing the new retweet functions that twitter is about to roll out. - Jason Pollock

hi ramona! - Jason Pollock

Hola, como estas? that's all the Espanol I know LOL. How are you all tonight. - snysctt

I hope Twitter takes notice of the complaints during the beta period - Hugh Guiney

I find it exhausting to try and stay on the frontline of all this new and social media. I love it, but jason bro...how you do it is beyond me. - Joseph Peterson

jason: thanks to you for providing those us with deadlines and coffee something else to procrastinate with :) - Meesh

Evening all! - Victoria Mack

hi jason! - Cora Allison

Hello Jason lucky 4 me i have a real bad case of insomnia now seeing as its almost 3 AM here in NYC - pepamint83

joseph: thnx for the kind words - Jason Pollock

pepamint83: ur an insomniac! - Jason Pollock

I'm kind of surprised that Dan Z's hashtag didn't cause them to switch gears already - Hugh Guiney

I miss friend feed this a nice way to use it! Sup J - Owen JJ Stone

So what exactly is going on with the new retweet functions? - Victoria Mack

I am an insomniac did U not realize this about me lol - pepamint83

Thanks for the 3 AM chat :) Have chronic insomnia and nothing on tv lol - snysctt

Im so excited about all the dif apps becoming available that it just makes networking easier an alot of fun. - Ramona Luvs Life

Yeah, I've got to agree that FriendFeed has so much untapped potential. - Joshua Fears

How many people are here right now? - Jason Pollock

1 - pepamint83

should we count off? LOL - Victoria Mack

ME lol - snysctt

2 - Joshua Fears

If you are here then send out your twitter page so that everyone here can follow everyone - Jason Pollock

3 - snysctt

me - Cora Allison

i dont like that facebook and twitter are integrating..i like the two separate sites to be that way - Meesh

@mastacoupe - Joshua Fears

@VictoriaDMack - Victoria Mack

www.twitter.com/cora_allison - Cora Allison

@snysctt - snysctt

@meeshsparks - Meesh

I'm here now -- I was busy blogging about pop tart Lily Allen's declaration of war against all file sharers -- and I'm ready to talk about Project RT. - Dennis Jernberg

See Facebook and Twitter are such different beasts. I too wish they'd stay that way. - Joshua Fears

meesh: facebook has to become more twitter like or it will die like myspace - Jason Pollock

uh, I am here. and this is me: http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

http://twitter.com/Ohdoctah - Owen JJ Stone

if you are here then PLEASE CLICK LIKE at the top of this thread!:) - Jason Pollock

http://twitter.com/LordPan... - Hugh Guiney

im not fond of th RT idea... u ready to boycott it jason? - heykim

I have both and I NOW Twitter only... I never posted on either of htem - snysctt

them* - snysctt

myspace has pretty much died huh? - Cora Allison

http://www.twitter.com/Victori... - Victoria Mack

No one has clicked LIKE yet.. the thread needs a lot of LIKES to be in the BEST OF THE WEEK. - Jason Pollock

fb is alway down on its chat and I give up an go to twitter 90% of the time - Ramona Luvs Life

we clicked like - Hugh Guiney

Myspace is sill alive lol.. its the step child but alive - Owen JJ Stone

did you all see that they are gonna make a movie of that book on how facebook started: the accidental millionaires or whatever. Jesse Eisenberg is starring along with J. Timberlake. - Joseph Peterson

Some of my threads have gotten into best of the month on friendfeed.. that means that lots of people are reading your comments!!! - Jason Pollock

well it became like twitter with the status updates..but i mean the whole all sites has same status thing.. - Meesh

I hardly qualify as noone, I liked the thread. Click the thread people so we can get on to some chat. - Joshua Fears

I just feed my twitter status into fb - Hugh Guiney

I use Twitter mostly, Facebook hardly. I'm at http://twitter.com/dennis_..., of course. - Dennis Jernberg

owen: myspace is not really alive.. it has a lot of people but its not cool or considered viable by most brands and advertisers now. - Jason Pollock

fb status is redundant now - Hugh Guiney

me! I was the first to "like" this thread. you are welcome. - Joseph Peterson

So what's going on with this Retweet thing? - Victoria Mack

plus myspace is actually shrinking.. when twitter and facebook are exploding. - Jason Pollock

and yes, poor myspace. they're trying to catch up still with twitter updates connected to myspace, as well as doing their own versions of fbook apps. - Meesh

Hugh: You got it exactly right. - Dennis Jernberg

I agree...I never go on facebook anymore...(sorry my friends) - Kimmy Sue

victoria: twitter is about to mess up RTing i fear. - Jason Pollock

myspace is like for music promotion and high schoolers - Joseph Peterson

How? - Victoria Mack

how can i like it on twitter? idk what ya'll are talking about - Cora Allison

See I don't think FB status is redundant at all. Because I use FB for people I've known in the past who may not use Twitter, or even heard of it still believe it or not. - Joshua Fears

Jason: I know alot of people in music that are killing it on myspace.. soo I TOTALLY agree but don't lol - Owen JJ Stone

www.twitter.com/heykim - heykim

We're almost up to 100 comments on this thread so far! lets keep this great convo going!!!! - Jason Pollock

I got on fbook when i started at UFlorida as a junior when No one knew about it-I barely remember the original template of the site. - Meesh

Facebook was more valuable when you could see different goings-ons with your friends, like "jack and jill became friends" and "hank updated his favorite movies" - Hugh Guiney

You're exactly right Joseph...Myspace is for high schoolers!! lol - Kimmy Sue

Hi Jason! - weirdchina

Owen: i agree with u that myspace is still viable for music... but thats about it. - Jason Pollock

FB wants to be Twitter.. in time ALL STARS FADE... - Owen JJ Stone

weirdchina: hey dude! welcome! - Jason Pollock

now it's all "hey! you know what! you might look like jack blacks cousin but not really! take this quiz!" - Meesh

great chat!! - weirdchina

#KimArmy Represetin'! - Kimberly Thompson

Weirdchina has entered the chat all the way from the other side of the world. - Jason Pollock

Joshua: but it is redundant in operation - Hugh Guiney

What about those interseted in acting? Still down with the Myspace? - Victoria Mack

i use facebook to keep up with my twin college son an daughter cuz they never tell me anything so I gotta go creepin lolol - Ramona Luvs Life

haha #KimArmy is here - Kimmy Sue

Kimmy Sue! I heart you! wait...didn't we "hook up" on Jason's last chat? aint you my girlfriend? - Joseph Peterson

MySpace is for sure still useful for musicians, etc. You have to remember too that Facebook just passed MySpace in users this Spring. So even though us early adopters aren't into it any more doesn't mean there isn't a fan base. - Joshua Fears

if ur not following http://twitter.com/weirdchina then you should be!!!\ - Jason Pollock

yes! here in China hanging out with all of you!! - weirdchina

highschoolers don't get on Twitter so.. - Owen JJ Stone

Hi there #KimArmy! :D - Dennis Jernberg

WOW, this chat is crusin' right along. - snysctt

I still use face book to keep in touch with my kids and grand kids but i prefer twitter - Lorne McInnes

The only reason for me to be on it is for the friends, its intrinsic value has lessened - Hugh Guiney

#kimpower for SURE kimberly! kimmy - heykim

say what Joseph????????? - Kimmy Sue

it's the JasonPollock effect, snysctt - Meesh

i have important photos on myspace that would take way too long to transfer to any other site, that's why i keep mine. and you can decorate it like your bedroom... - Cora Allison

if u just joined the chat then... PLEASE CLICK LIKE ON THIS THREAD!!!:) - Jason Pollock

Hey Dennis - Kimberly Thompson

heykim :) and all kims I may not recognize but know from twitterlandia! - Meesh

Hugh: It is very redundant in operation, I totally agree, which is why I think you'll see the status aspects of most sites eventually sync w/ Twitter in the same way that the "social" aspects of most sites sync w/ Facebook. - Joshua Fears

Although it is one place where being private is the norm - Hugh Guiney

rural america Twitter hasnt caught on exactly as were behind the times by 6+ months - Ramona Luvs Life

already clicked LIKE jason - heykim

i feel more socially responsible on twitter than on fbook - Meesh

Kind of an escape from Twitter's transparency - Hugh Guiney

weirdchina just got followed by http://twitter.com/planetj... which you should also follow. (would be sweet if I got a #ff from Jason ever) haha - Joseph Peterson

i find myself wanting to inform or be informed on twitter - Meesh

Yes, he's got an infectious personality <3. - snysctt

hey meesh - heykim

hello - Tommy Geraci

whereass fbook is information,plus socializing,mingling,event planning. - Meesh

oh, Kimmy sue, nevermind, I think it was hey kim. now I can't remember. haha - Joseph Peterson

i had myspace then got roped into facebook oddly twitter is the one thing my friends refuse to get & i dont unterstand it I fell in luv...met great ppl - pepamint83

I feel bad for my friends on Twitter who are just on it casually - Hugh Guiney

just beware of the Perez syndrome on how u get informed lol - Ramona Luvs Life

i haven't really gotten hip with twitter.. maybe it's because i only have 53 followers... JASON blow me up - Cora Allison

Joseph is the comedian tonight huh? - Kimmy Sue

since I am probably overloading them with RTs - Hugh Guiney

We're almost at 150 comments in this thread tonight!!! AWESOME! - Jason Pollock

Yes, FB is reat for event planning - Victoria Mack

I use Facebook mainly to keep up with relatives. Twitter and FriendFeed are my public outlets. - Dennis Jernberg

i think so too lol - Kimmy Sue

My last 2 live chats have both gotten to over 1600 comments.. we've got a ways to go! - Jason Pollock

Hugh: Right, it is a matter of transparency and privacy. - Joshua Fears

@snysctt - snysctt

Joseph, keep your Kims straight! #justsayin - Kimberly Thompson

does anyone know if the new RT feature will still allow us to add our own comments to the RT? - Tommy Geraci

this is my first time using friendfeed - Ramona Luvs Life

i even did a experiment to see what followers are likely to respond to somethings: like for my charity, fbook gained me 300 in donations from unknowns. - Meesh

Well I just want Facebook to be facebook.. and i dont want them to suck friend feed into FB at some point.. - Owen JJ Stone

twitter just one donation, who actually found me through you, Jason. - Meesh

Tommy: No. No comments yet. - Dennis Jernberg

Welcome Ramona!! - snysctt

i just got on with friendfeed B/C of jason's chat - Cora Allison

so it just depends I guess on how you network - Meesh

Tommy: No, it won't - Hugh Guiney

haha! ooh, Kimberly Thompson! too many Kims!!! ahhh!. what is a kim lover like me to do??? - Joseph Peterson

Does anyone have a link to the new RT feature because I have yet to even hear what's going on - Victoria Mack

friendfeed FTW! - Cora Allison

according to one of the people that worked on it - Hugh Guiney

although it may be added in later - Hugh Guiney

hola dennis :) - Meesh

Soo what exactlyis going to be happening with this new RT setup? - Kimmy Sue

Here is the link to my last LIVE chat with over 1600 comments! = http://ff.im/7M8iq - Jason Pollock

Does anyone have a link to the new RT feature ? - Yolanda

What's your charity, Meesh? - Kimberly Thompson

Jason's friendfeed chat is awesome!! - weirdchina

it's invite only - Hugh Guiney

That live chat is in the BEST OF THE MONTH for Friendfeed! We rock! - Jason Pollock

hello to my followers who are here - sending twitter love to you all. - snysctt

Hi Jason! Hello Everyone! - Kirk

that's incredible - Hugh Guiney

https://twitter.com/Cora_Al... follow me - Cora Allison

im not sure how to use friendfeed, I only use it when Jason goes on parade on twitter and invites to the party - Meesh

Weirdchina: friendfeed is the most technologically advanced social network by far. - Jason Pollock

OK PARTY ppl its 3 am where I'm at good night.. AWESOME chat Jason.. Keep it goin!! - Owen JJ Stone

already? lol - Hugh Guiney

So I wonder if Jason will provide a status update on his film. Since I'm dying to see the damn thing in the worst way (honestly Jason even with you being a "thought leader" whatever the hell that means, I'm mainly into you because of this film which I think is brilliant just in it's premise) - Joshua Fears

So no one has any info huh... - Victoria Mack

!!!!! - weirdchina

HELLO, JASON! FIRST TIME HERE. - EROZ

woo hoo! - Joseph Peterson

it's not auto updating for me, boooo - Kimberly Thompson

Very few people understand the power of friendfeed and most people dont ever get to see chats like this so they dont see it. - Jason Pollock

Jason how do you not have distribution yet, with this kind of sway? - Hugh Guiney

Scobleizer's page is the best for friendfeed activity, Louis Gray is also a great one. - Jason Pollock

I love the awesome connections I have been able to make thru twitter - Ramona Luvs Life

I AGREE JOSHUA - Kimmy Sue

once again...I have my own food blog! I googled it and it took me to this page. yes, Jason's Friend Feed page where I mentioned my food blog last time! http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

how's everyone's autumn temperature/ - Meesh

i second that @meesh - Cora Allison

I second Joshua's comments - Hugh Guiney

I got to agree with Hugh. Brilliant premise and this little army you have here... F Hollywood, sometimes. - Joshua Fears

This is a cool app...I'm not really up on the apps for twitter - Victoria Mack

Hey Jason, What the News?? - LILCHICKENPOO

miami= HOT, with a hint of Loud, and a smidge of humid - Meesh

Heeey lilchickenpoo - Kimmy Sue

But no one on Friendfeed holds LIVE CHATS like this.. so you rock for helping me make these so cool! - Jason Pollock

Wow people are awake! :) Heya Jason hows it goin? - Angel xox

lilchickenpoo: hello! - Jason Pollock

Jason yes, i have also starting using friendfeed a lot more, robert scoble also talks highly of it - weirdchina

netbook to slow.. follow me www.twitter.com/heykim and mention JASON - heykim

i don't know how to use friendfeed - Cora Allison

if u just joined the chat then... PLEASE CLICK LIKE ON THIS THREAD!!!:) - Jason Pollock

Jason, just don't forget the little people when you get an oscare for you movie making skills.shout to the friendfeeders :) - Meesh

Jason can U believe I am 1 away from 380 followers I am so close 2 400 i cant taste it lol ~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

oscar* even - Meesh

Scoble is the Friendfeed King, he has the largest following here. - Jason Pollock

U rock 4 tdoing thses live feeds - pepamint83

Jason, This chat is very like the old IRC chanels and no one is answering simple questions like where to find info on this RT subject - Yolanda

Scobleizer's chats are amazing - weirdchina

my typing is the worst tonight-3am will do it ! - Meesh

It was Robert Scoble who brought me here with about 20,000 other people back in July, and I've been a FriendFeed regular ever since. - Dennis Jernberg

I am learning friend feed.. it's clear as mud so far, but I'll be able to see right through it soon with everyone's assistance <3 - snysctt

Thank you Yolanda! - Victoria Mack

yolanda: go to mashable.com there are lots of articles there about it - Jason Pollock

Yolanda and Victoria-we had discussed RTing briefly - Meesh

IRCO_o omg... ages ago Iwas an IRCop...*flashbacks* ACK! lol - Angel xox

Spelling and grammar don't matter after midnight ;-) - snysctt

dennis: u rock! - Jason Pollock

http://mashable.com/2009... - Hugh Guiney

but Jason hasn't used it or been exposed to it, so..yeah.. - Meesh

Very briefly I was here sinc ethe beginning it was touched then let go lol - Victoria Mack

i agree @synsctt - Cora Allison

article about it - Hugh Guiney

thank you Jason, - Yolanda

even tho people can have TONS of followers, SOME will still engage.. never forget that ! - heykim

Right now @Scobleizer's tweeting about the many people who deserve to be on Twitter's Suggested Users List but aren't. - Dennis Jernberg

heykim: what up girl! - Jason Pollock

Thanks Cora - snysctt

Hope U all saw the trailer for The Youngest Candidate its amazing & a must see - pepamint83

LOL @snaysctt ... what spelling and grammer? LOL - Angel xox

YO YO YO, I don't know about all this shi--stuff. but social media and me are friends. its fun to pretend I know the movers and shakers of web 2.0 by chattin with them. me = awesome : http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

lol Angel - snysctt

HeyKim :) - Kimmy Sue

Hey Kimmy !! - LILCHICKENPOO

hey! 3 tweeps donated today! :) they gave up their starbucks and have me 5.00 each :) - Meesh

comin to see my friend here :) can u believe my number jump? crazy! - heykim

anything goes after midnight tee hee @snysctt - Cora Allison

haha Joseph - Kimmy Sue

behold the power of twitter..and friendfeed, and followfridays..and yes. internets. - Meesh

Hi, so what is everyone talking about? - Julie Folkers

gave* - Meesh

like i said... WHAt spelling? lol - Angel xox

dennis: i agree with scoble about the suggested user list.. that list is kind of unfair.. its twitters way to game its own system. - Jason Pollock

Everyone can add me @snysctt for twitter... I am a genuine person who likes to meet the same. Won't you be my neighbor ;-) - snysctt

julie, everything,anything and whatever fits in between everything and anything - Meesh

yeah, wish I could see that frickin movie. the youngest candidate. heard its pretty okay. I think it sounds mildly interesting. - Joseph Peterson

wow I see lots cool followers here!! Great job getting this nice group together Jason! - weirdchina

@snysctt i cant add u i closed Tweetdeck O_o - Angel xox

Jason: And Twitter's trying to attract the celebrity followers, sports fans, MSM junkies, and the like. Forget us geeks, they're telling us. - Dennis Jernberg

JUST sent a tweet 4 ppl 2 come 2 the Chat - pepamint83

Jason: it is kinda a gaming of it's own system. But again this is from a guy who gets included in almost every people to follow list out there (of couse by your own hard work) - Joshua Fears

weirdchina. you must mean me when you say cool followers. and thanks. I will be looking forward to the follow back. http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

wait. maybe if i say ur name like, 200times in my head, i wil lremember and add u tomorrow :) - Angel xox

www.twitter.com/heykim or www.friendfeed.com/heykim - heykim

Jason, I only have 55 followers on Twitter... is there anyway you can blow me up and show me what the internet's made of? https://twitter.com/Cora_Al... - Cora Allison

yay for g1 having a great twitter app finaally ;) - Meesh

Just added ya Angel - snysctt

what did u do today for someone else??? I gave burgers? a whole pack of hot dogs to my neighbor!!!1 lots of food!!!! they had a blast around a bon fire while i got work done!! weeee!!! lol - LILCHICKENPOO

doh! okay .. ill uhm, well heck ill go follow u back :D - Angel xox

joshua: if i get 100 followers in a day that is a big day for me.. people on that list get 3000 followers a day... - Jason Pollock

Hi pepa ...how are you girl? - Kimmy Sue

Jason: I can't tweet anything I'm so busy reading this chat thread. Still it's a little less chaotic than a UStream livefeed. - Joshua Fears

The problem with the suggested follows is they may share a lot but they're never going to engage you directly because the volume of @replies is too high - Hugh Guiney

ok so are people complaining about famous people using twitter - Julie Folkers

lol@ lilchickenpoo - Meesh

Twitter needs a way to let people see tweets according to groups - Hugh Guiney

I gets around 10 followers a day! I am smoking. no one can catch me!! http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

I use it as my virtue water cooler as I work on my own - Julie Folkers

link http://mashable.com/2009... - Yolanda

I agree with the complaints Julie!! - LILCHICKENPOO

famous ppl MADE twitter what it is @julie folkers - Cora Allison

ROFLCAKES!!! I just got the error "Twitter is over capacity...too many Tweets..." WTF LOL - Angel xox

lil i did my first home visit as an intern today, met with an elder couple whos son is abusing them & my supervisor is trying 2 get an order of protection for them - pepamint83

Jason: Oh I'm down with what you're saying. I'm just saying for a new user, Twitter wants to promote it's household names (which you may someday be). It's self-promotion at it's finest, though again I'm with you and what you're saying. - Joshua Fears

Everybody here: I'm at http://twitter.com/dennis_... and I retweet a lot! I also interact, and I've got a few blogs. - Dennis Jernberg

I wish they would allow more people to be Verified other than celebs because I have seen plenty of fake "regular folk" twitters - Victoria Mack

thank you Hugh - Yolanda

okay so @snysctt, ull have 2 wait for me 2 follow u i guess? lol - Angel xox

some might think I am famous - Julie Folkers

I'm an author - Julie Folkers

i'm like the turtle...slow and steady. I get enough followers at a good pace!! Darnit - Kimmy Sue

yes, Joseph, anyone who followers jason and me, are most definitely coo! lol! - weirdchina

is pepamint gonna do anyhting but smap their URL? grrr - Angel xox

Slow n steady is the rule!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

i mean SPAM >.> - Angel xox

i want followers wahhhh - Cora Allison

doesnt matter how many followers u have, JASON tweeted me when i had VERY few ! - heykim

No, Cora. WE ALL make Twitter what it is. Celebs have helped garner attention. They're part of it too. We all contribute. - Kirk

"smap" hehe - Victoria Mack

slow! like turtles stampeding through peanut butter! - Meesh

it's just a nice way for people to exchange info - Julie Folkers

hola Kirk :) never gonna give you uppppp - Meesh

careful what u wish for cora.....u wanna know who ur talking too... - LILCHICKENPOO

Julie, congrats to u thats gr8. Im an aspiring poet.. its hard to get published so congrats onthat :D - Angel xox

really?? YES!! hahaha thank you my not so lilchickenpoo - Kimmy Sue

i know we all contribute, but ashton, demi, miley... they're why twitter became so publicly popular - Cora Allison

LOL @ Meesh - Kirk

thanks for the follow snysctt. now angel, lilchicken, joshuah, c'mon now, meesh you too. http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

Victoria... lol yeah uhm im really tired but Jason rox so I came here lol - Angel xox

thanks I just tap my keys and sidestep people mostly - Julie Folkers

I added a bunch of you.. fast as I could lol - snysctt

i tweet fun inperational motivational quotes great website just try to make ppl have an enjoyable day ...& i respond 2 every one...1 away from 380 so close to 400 PLZ FOLLOW ~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

lol im on it im on it - Meesh

Hi JASON ((hugs)) - Kimmy Sue

i follow back but usually the next day - Meesh

Like if there was a list of "@Mentions from New Followers" it would encourage more people to check them out and facilitate conversation - Hugh Guiney

Heey Kirk - Kimmy Sue

i promise :) - Meesh

just be yourself, offer value and the followers will come, it takes time, just stick with it - weirdchina

Cora: Don't forget Oprah... - Dennis Jernberg

but maybe these are features for the paid Twitter user - Hugh Guiney

I didnt join because of ashton, defintelely not demi and not a miley fan. I was just happy i could update my status a lot and not look like a loser of FB lol - Victoria Mack

Cora: Sure the celebrity is what took Twitter to this insane level it's at now. Which even Jason didn't become a superstar until Aston, etc took up the cause. - Joshua Fears

@snysctt so YOURe the rsn Twitter is "over cpacity" eh??? tsktsk j/k lol - Angel xox

Hi Kimmy : ) Hello Dennis - Kirk

lets share links if u know ur on board as "buddies"?! - LILCHICKENPOO

i was already on twitter when oprah joined lol - Cora Allison

So was I, Cora - Kirk

Yeah, Oprah's usually late on stuff - Victoria Mack

on a related note Twitter should hire me - Hugh Guiney

I have met a lot of other authors and it's good as it's a lonely job and just met people I would never ever meet - Julie Folkers

Meesh. way to go. - Joseph Peterson

Hugh: I'm with you. Anything but @bot DMs - Joshua Fears

Hey all, can anybody tell me what #RTProject is? - EMVerbeek

Yes @ Victoria she be late - Kirk

Hi Kirk! Also, there's @coldplay, @collective_soul...The best celebrity tweep on Twitter IMO is @Alyssa_Milano. - Dennis Jernberg

Joshua: the bots are an even bigger problem - Hugh Guiney

Julie: I'm about to send out querie letters for my first MS wish me luck! - Victoria Mack

Im making a playlist of songs that have to do with California-any suggestions ? - Meesh

No, Hugh, they should hire US LOL - Kirk

This chat is rocking! I love being able to sit back and read all of your amazing comments! thanks for being here and thanks for this great chat! - Jason Pollock

headin on out.. good to see ya jason.. www.twitter.com/heykim - heykim

not just on Twitter but on the Web in general - Hugh Guiney

I think it's just nice to meet people and exchange info in a nice way - Julie Folkers

QUESTION OF THE NIGHT = WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE SONG RIGHT NOW? - Jason Pollock

Julie: thats so awesome. Im hopin someday 2 see my hard work acknowledged but good things come to those who wait, n'est pas? :D - Angel xox

anything by slightly stoopid is good shtuff! @meesh - Cora Allison

Hugh: Yeah, it's becoming a real pain in the arse to have to comb through new follows every day and decide if a person is real or not. - Joshua Fears

Empire State of Mind - Kimmy Sue

MY FAVE SONG: Bittersweet Symphony - Angel xox

SPAM bots actually account for a large amount of the world's waste - Hugh Guiney

21 guns - Julie Folkers

stole it out of my mouth kimmy sue! - Meesh

Song of the Night: Effington by Ben Folds. - Joshua Fears

my Lifetime original movie on why I joined twitter: as a PR major, thought it would be a good idea. then the drama really began! - Joseph Peterson

Meesh: California's Burning AUGUSTANA (very relevant right now LOL) - Victoria Mack

great to wrok to - Julie Folkers

thanks Victoria! - Meesh

the veronicas take me on the floor has been in my head - pepamint83

http://twitter.com/lilchic... follow me if you want 2 stay in touch!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

all of those servers running e-mailing billions isn't good for the environment - Hugh Guiney

Everyone is welcome to add me www.twitter.com/snysctt... looking forward to meeting genuine friends ;-) - snysctt

Don't forget Kirstie Alley, Dennis ...she raised alot of money being creative with Twitter - Kirk

if u guys can tweet or blip these suggestions it would be wonderful - Meesh

ANGEL i luve that song sooooooo much - pepamint83

i cant stop listening to Jay-Z's RUN THIS TOWN TONIGHT - Jason Pollock

Kirk: yes they should hire everyone is in this chat, actually - Hugh Guiney

http://twitter.com/meeshsparks - Meesh

Jason, I only have 55 followers on Twitter... is there anyway you can blow me up and show me what the internet's made of? https://twitter.com/Cora_Al... - Cora Allison

Welcome Meesh! here's another: California PHANTOM PLANET aka the OC theme - Victoria Mack

jason-i love it but rihanna's voice has go to go! - Meesh

my fave song is the theme song to LaVerne and Shirley. but New York State of Mind is rockin the juke box too. - Joseph Peterson

got* - Meesh

i can't help it, but i really like "obsessed" by mariah - Cora Allison

Empire State of Mind makes me want to move to New York - Hugh Guiney

yes i have the oc theme - Meesh

LMAO @ Meesh ...R's voice has to go - . ! - Kirk

Yeah that song is awesom Jason...i've been listening to all Jay Z these past few days...can't get enough!! - Kimmy Sue

if u just joined the chat then... PLEASE CLICK LIKE ON THIS THREAD!!!:) - Jason Pollock

how bout Barney??? - pepamint83

and why is Dr. Pepper not more popular?? its so much better than coke and pepsi y'all! I am sick of them playing third fiddle. more like viola! - Joseph Peterson

:) - pepamint83

I LOVE DR. PEPPER OMG - Hugh Guiney

I dont remember the name of the song but Track #6 on Whitney Houston's new CD is SOOO GOOD! - Victoria Mack

pepamint! totally thought of Barney. lol - Joseph Peterson

Joseph you are my soda soulmate HAHA - Victoria Mack

Hello. - deyto

but I'll tell you why: it's because they're not utilizing social media!! - Hugh Guiney

I think the Transformres soundtrack for the second movie is fantastic - Julie Folkers

BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU WANNA: http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

look at what Pepsi is doing - Hugh Guiney

lol - pepamint83

cora: i just tweeted u out:) - Jason Pollock

okay @snysctt ur added :D:D - Angel xox

what is pepsi doing? - Cora Allison

Hey people the man said song of the night. Just give the song you're listening to tonight. Hahahahaha - Joshua Fears

thanks - snysctt

I mught get pinned as a spammer, but i only message all that "I" follow!! that may come across as SPAM, but i will only invite those I like once the pan is hot, & the food is ready!!! lol - LILCHICKENPOO

Victoria! yaya. always wanted one of those! re: soda soulmate! - Joseph Peterson

I wouldn't even have known about Jason if it weren't for the Mountain Dew contest - Hugh Guiney

FAVE SONG RIGHT NOW IS MUSE "UPRISING" - Tommy Geraci

I love Dr. Pepper the odd time I'll do dark soda, otherwise Mountain Dew or Ginger Ale ..(Coke 0) - Kirk

Also been listening to the new Mayer Hawthorne album.....it's amazing! - Kimmy Sue

now im 20 away from 400 a # i never thought i would EVER B near : ) ~~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

So im still peeved @ Perez Hilton >.> - Angel xox

Pepsi is letting the fans decide the new everything for Mtn Dew - Hugh Guiney

jason, can you tweet my cause on my birthday, sept 29? PLEEEEASE :) - Meesh

jason: thank you thank you, i'll keep you posted to see if my followers go UP. Jason Pollock is the shit! - Cora Allison

i will send you on a cruise! - Meesh

y angel the jaclin smith thing? - pepamint83

Jason hosted a paintball event for it not too long ago - Hugh Guiney

meesh: remind me:) - Jason Pollock

Jason, i wish you were live on Ustream, i really feel like bopping my head - Cora Allison

I started a soda convo. haha. sorry to coup the chat Jason: back to SONGS peeps. - Joseph Peterson

I think the head bopping is implied - Hugh Guiney

I hope Jason's smartphone syncs w/ his calender. Because Sept 29th is days away. - Joshua Fears

Cora, I'm following you already. Everybody who isn't following me: I'm at http://twitter.com/dennis_... - Dennis Jernberg

Yeah Pepsi's smart with that buy our product and vote for a flavor that probably wont be continued - Victoria Mack

Due to my health (no joke) I have to leave chat... it's giving me a migraine because of how fast it's moving, but my heart is here just the same. I am SO sorry... please add me to twitter www.twitter.com/snysctt and I'll follow u back. Sincerest Regards. - snysctt

Hes good about B-days but can Jason remember the dates lol?? - pepamint83

jason: you're attention is hard to get! - Meesh

if we're not in here - Meesh

Jason.........lets go live for a few???????????? my neck hurts from not boppin!!!! lol - LILCHICKENPOO

COOL = We're over 400 comments on this thread! - Jason Pollock

meesh. send me on a cruise and I will tweet your cause everyday! - Joseph Peterson

Victoria: No they're permanent! - Hugh Guiney

lol - Meesh

Jason's chat is rocking!!! - weirdchina

um , yeah!?! - LILCHICKENPOO

But I agree they discontinue too many flavors - Hugh Guiney

its all about the 23 magic ingredients. - Joseph Peterson

U know U want 2 ; ) ~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

EVERYONE FOLLOW = http://twitter.com/Cora_Al... - she's a nice tweeter! - Jason Pollock

Hugh: every flavor they introduce? I thought one is chosen and the other falls off? - Victoria Mack

PROPS to jason_pollock for shouting me out!!! <3 - Cora Allison

meesh. you did get jason's attention. he wants you to remind him when its your birthday - Joseph Peterson

LILCHICKENPOO: Let the man get above 2000 and his tired tush might go live on UStream... It is fun to watch him bop his head. But the last UStream I was in on made me hungry for pizza. - Joshua Fears

i so far have phantom planet, mamas and papas, llcoolj,augsutana - Meesh

I could very well be wrogn I dont derink MTN DEW lol - Victoria Mack

i'll survived with 15 mins of me Pollockness!! lol - LILCHICKENPOO

Victoria: No you're right - Hugh Guiney

california songs..or san francisco songs? - Meesh

that's what I meant - Hugh Guiney

joseph- i know :) i met on twitter - Meesh

woohoo cora! - Meesh

Jason..I YouTube'd you last night (cuz i'm a nerd lol)...you got a lot of cool stuff on there man. (I loved you passing out your stickers on election day)...how cute was that!! :) - Kimmy Sue

meant* - Meesh

woohoo is right meesh! - Cora Allison

Night all..... - Julie Folkers

Pepamint: yeah. cant stand him. havent liked him from the start - Angel xox

☀ ★ positive energy ★☀ - weirdchina

joseph-lol if you can guarantee i get donations from the tweets, i will send u on the cruise! - Meesh

lmao lilchickenpoo....."Pollockness" YOU nerd - Kimmy Sue

whoa it's slowing down - Victoria Mack

oh. haha. meesh. and here it is! http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

Unfortunetly though it was printed in a magazine first which is so stupiod - pepamint83

Thanks again to everyone for this amazing chat tonight! u all rock! - Jason Pollock

i followed u already - Meesh

:) - Meesh

http://twitter.com/soulboykirk - Kirk

ohhh I think I figured it out hahaha - Chelsi Smith

I havent participated in anything like this since I was in middle school.....when I shouldnt have been HAHA - Victoria Mack

Jason: NO, you ROCK! =) - Cora Allison

Jason u rock! period :) hehehe - Angel xox

my first time on the west side IN THREE WEEKS! - Meesh

Guys check out my mom @gingeybear's interview 4 @Hayden_Harnett Spring/Summer 10 Fashion Show (shes the readhead 7 min in) http://bit.ly/5oenV - pepamint83

Chelsi!!!! - Kirk

jason: when are you going live on Ustream again? soon, i hope... - Cora Allison

well, depends on the cause I guess. I did help raise a few thousand dollars for a charity before. and I am on the hall of fame recruiter list for charity:water on facebook. I know I know. I am so cool like that right? http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

This is like multi-tasking... hahaha - Chelsi Smith

any warning for someone who has never ever been west of texas? - Meesh

I love Jason Pollock!!! What?! lol!! - LILCHICKENPOO

Hello everybody. I just joined this chat. What a great idea! Two big thumbs up for Jason. - Claudio Sennhauser

Meesh: You'll love it!!! California's the best despite our horrible education system and budget deficit and wifdfires =) - Victoria Mack

i'm up to 65 followers, oh ya! - Cora Allison

UTAH UTAH represent! http://twitter.com/planetj... Jason...can I get a shout out?? - Joseph Peterson

Kirk: Hey my favorite Canadian RTer is on tonight! - Joshua Fears

WoWza@ Cora! I hit 1500 earlier - Kirk

lol I know..me too! But he thinks i'm a geek and doesn't answer me. - Kimmy Sue

Aenima by TOOL... it's about california, not very PRO-cali, lol... - Cora Allison

lol Cora ill follow you! follow me back ? :D - Angel xox

Victoria-sounds like Miami,Florida-except replace wildfires with Hurricanes and Old people. - Meesh

http://twitter.com/lilchic... WHO'S DOWN WITH THE LIL'S???!!! WEEEE !!! LOL - LILCHICKENPOO

meesh! I have never lived east of Texas! haha. - Joseph Peterson

Kirk: you're canadian?! wtf?! - Meesh

I just followed you, Cora. :) - Claudio Sennhauser

LOL! @meesh! - Victoria Mack

Yes, am I allowed? @ Meesh - Kirk

Meesh: He's Candadian for now... - Joshua Fears

EVERYONE!!! LEAVE UR LINK!! SO WE CAN FOLLOW U!? LCP - LILCHICKENPOO

I did live in Oklahoma. but that was on top of texas. - Joseph Peterson

I'm 1 away from 100! - Victoria Mack

only got 2 amaing follower JASON HELP lol ~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

ty Josh exactly - Kirk

I never knew. its like we never shared a rick astley moment kirk. or birth control commercials. - Meesh

HERE IS MY LINK: http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

that was amazing - pepamint83

http://twitter.com/teeco71 - Tommy Geraci

For now ..got an offer anybody? A spare American room? LOL - Kirk

Kirk: no problem, light internet stalking is my speciality. Hahaha - Joshua Fears

glad to oblige by being your 100th Victoria! - Joseph Peterson

UR FOLLOWED JOSEPH!!! GL!! - LILCHICKENPOO

Cora what is your twitter link? - Angel xox

thx claudio & angel - Cora Allison

Kirk-miami will welcome u. come visit! - Meesh

ok here's mine...for children's books and Reiki Master........http://twitter.com/juliefo... - Julie Folkers

LOL @ Josh what's ur link Josh ...so far I'm seeing ppl I already follow - Kirk

does anyone else listen to east village radio? - Kimmy Sue

http://twitter.com/soulboykirk - Kirk

I lied now I have 3 new amazing followers but still need JASONS MAGIC POWERS 2 get 2 400 : ) ~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

miami barely qualifies as American though - Meesh

oh! finally! yes! thanks LILCHICKENPOO. - Joseph Peterson

YAY!!! I JUST followed you too Joseph aka SodaSM lol - Victoria Mack

Jason: how many comments are we up to now? I'm still holding out for UStream possibilities. Sitting on your channel right now. - Joshua Fears

Kimmy- is that a station? or a band name? - Meesh

U 2 CORA!! ;) - LILCHICKENPOO

Awww @ Meesh :) - Kirk

http://twitter.com/teeco71 - Tommy Geraci

i wanna see jason on Ustream - Cora Allison

Ustream, Ustream!!! - Cora Allison

Alright damn it... @mastacoupe over at Twitter.... - Joshua Fears

I need 8 arms to do this and Twitter hahaha - Chelsi Smith

Don't give in Jason!! FriendFeed is the future! - Hugh Guiney

GOTCHA TOMMY!!! ;) - LILCHICKENPOO

I think I signed up for Ustream and I just dont get it. For being so young I feel to old sometimes - Victoria Mack

oh that's You, Josh lmao - Kirk

thx, lilchickenpoo, i'll follow you back, just as soon as we're done chatting! - Cora Allison

If youre a Twaddict, follow http://www.twitter.com/twaddic... hehe (shameless plug - Angel xox

ooh, we got a following joseph trend picking up here. lets ride this tide people! http://twitter.com/planetj... I got great tweets. lots o links. - Joseph Peterson

CORA! Following u now :D - Angel xox

thanks you angel! - Cora Allison

thank* - Cora Allison

Chelsi, ur not lying and also this thing make ne sea sick - Kirk

Kirk: haha, see it's all about making connections. Oh and yes.Joshua Fears is my real name. Yes I do love that last name, yes I've heard every joke about it. - Joshua Fears

follow me, everything is all right. ..i'll be the one that you will tweet at night... - Meesh

YAY u guys rock almost there 17 followers away lol can i do it? ~~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

so what topic apart from folllowing each other is in the offering - Julie Folkers

http://twitter.com/meeshsparks - Meesh

Fears is a cool last name...almost as cool as MACK hehe - Victoria Mack

if you like ice cream then you'll love following me! http://twitter.com/planetj... (actually I have no idea why, there is absolutely no correlation-except that ice cream and I are both AWESOME!) - Joseph Peterson

Jason went MIA so um? - pepamint83

But Jason & Y'all's good company ..see? Already got 'yall' down like soutern Americans - Kirk

Kirk: On a lighter note, I found something to do without being argumentative. - Joshua Fears

julie-cupcakes. tons and tons of cupcakes - Meesh

Right now mainly following people here on Twitter & FF. Once again: http://twitter.com/dennis_... - Dennis Jernberg

because of Jason_Pollock i'm up to 72 Followers! I heart jason!! wooohooo - Cora Allison

GOTCHA MEESH!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

now, i do have to get to bed...c u all later i hope...LONG LIVE TWITTER! hehehe xoxo all :D - Angel xox

holy wow - pepamint83

chocolate - Julie Folkers

thanks lilchicky! - Meesh

McFears is kewl ...or Mack Fears better than James Bond - Kirk

so ummm, we keep the convo going! just cause the host has to take a poo. we gotta keep it alive y'all! - Joseph Peterson

Sonya ...where r u?!!! - Kirk

LOL let's write out a script Kirk - Victoria Mack

jason still here? - pepamint83

Alright guys - i'm out...it's been fun!! (Hugs to you all) - Kimmy Sue

There. Now following everybody here, on both Twitter and FriendFeed. - Dennis Jernberg

Julie: she's so right. We were originally talking about Twitter's #projectRT, but these things tend to devlove into followers, following (not that there's anything wrong with that people) - Joshua Fears

Hi Jason. Looks like you're having some fun again? - Louis Gray

is there really a place in cali called millions of milkshakes? - Meesh

yay kimmy sue - Cora Allison

i THINK JASON HAD TO DROP THE OBAMA'S OFF AT THE WHITEHOUSE!!! LOL - LILCHICKENPOO

nice to see all of you here on Jason's chat - weirdchina

hello - Chelsi Smith

Kirk & Victoria: If you write out a script at least pay some residual. - Joshua Fears

I dunno, I prefer not to get into the whole follow everyone thing - Hugh Guiney

Dennis you rock man! - Joseph Peterson

If I like your content I will just follow you naturally - Hugh Guiney

it's finding the time to read it all is the problem - Julie Folkers

Hi Cora :) - Kimmy Sue

I believe most of us have links to our Twitter pages from FF do we not? - Hugh Guiney

TO EACH HIS OWN HUGH, I TOTALLY AGREE, WE WANT 2 KNOW WHO OUR NIGHBORS ARE!! - LILCHICKENPOO

Meesh: Yes, in Hollywood - Victoria Mack

great if that is all you have to do, but when busy all you can do is flick and cach what might catch your eye - Julie Folkers

ok guys, its 3:40am in Miami - Meesh

ooh. LILCHICKEN, kinda bad taste. - Joseph Peterson

Hugh: Yeah I'm with Hugh I can't follow you if I don't like you. I won't read your tweets, and then what the hell is the point? - Joshua Fears

I want to stay...but this page hurts my eyes! lol - Kimmy Sue

U will like my page hugh check it out I promise if U like 2 smile follow me http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

and I have to be up in 5 hours to make sure people cruising on Carnival get to where they need to be :) - Meesh

Joseph: Thanks! - Dennis Jernberg

it'd 7.41pm In New Zealand - Julie Folkers

https://twitter.com/Cora_Al... love everyone here!!! - Cora Allison

I certainly appreciate Jason helping people get noticed but that can't be all the chats are about - Hugh Guiney

follow me @ http://twitter.com/meeshsparks. :) - Meesh

SORRY JOE, SOMEONE JUST SENT THAT 2 ME!! LOL - LILCHICKENPOO

josh ame i said 2 hugh i say 2 u http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

Joshua, agreed. - Joseph Peterson

Hey Jason! Nice to see you doing this here - Michael Fidler

Social media is about giving/receiving value - Hugh Guiney

I agree. Once you start spam tweeting, you're unfollowed. - Victoria Mack

maybe i can do a contest for my tweeps- the tweep that gets me the most donations gets a free 4 day cruise out of cali,florida or nyc - Meesh

Julie: has it better than anyone here! She's just sitting down at the computer after dinner and the rest of us are up in the middle of the night. - Joshua Fears

and yes, it can happen :) - Meesh

no I have to go and dish tea - Julie Folkers

About #projectRT: You'll see a lot of the people who retweet any given tweet (their avatars, anyway) below the tweet, but it won't let you comment yet. So if you want to add a comment, you have to RT the old way. - Dennis Jernberg

shoot, did i say nyc, i meant, tx. - Meesh

back - Kirk

it isn't what all this is about... but, jason thinks these chats/live vids are a good way to network... it's all about #Love - Cora Allison

I just checked the oven and it's cooked, want some? - Julie Folkers

What was the one thing uv'e done for another person today that made a diff?? - LILCHICKENPOO

Oh! I hate those spammers! but I like Spam. quite delicious. with rice, egg and seaweed. omg yummmmm http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

I tweet inperational motivational funny quoes fun websites links ideas, eco stuff odds and ends & chat back ~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

I took my Dad an ice cream sunday in the old people's home - Julie Folkers

I ran 10 miles with my teammate who has lymphoma cause she cant go to the marathon. - Meesh

Boo..i was home sick today :( - Kimmy Sue

LILCHICKENPOO: I'll bite. I helped my neighbor fix his shed door. - Joshua Fears

Joseph: I havent eaten spam since our family "moved on up" into the 'burbs lol - Victoria Mack

A lot of bots have been following me lately. I've been blocking the @-mention spammers and the Britneybots. - Dennis Jernberg

that made his day! - Julie Folkers

i follow people sometimes just cause I want them to follow me back. does that make me a twitter whore? - Joseph Peterson

What did you do lilchickenpoo - Kimmy Sue

twitter whore!!! lolz - Cora Allison

had* - Meesh

Yes joseph lol - pepamint83

I went to see my friend's band... unfortunately I couldn't get in because I forgot my ID at home but he saw that I made it out and appreciated the effort - Hugh Guiney

Dennis: A lot of pornstar bots follow me LOL - Victoria Mack

ok, buenas noches ! - Meesh

I filled more GUMBALL MACHINES for unexpecting kids that checked em!!! I just love the looks on their faces!!! classic!!! lol - LILCHICKENPOO

I guess I have a porn-friendly face - Victoria Mack

???? What' everyone on about? Charitable works this week/today? - Kirk

Joseph: Hmmm yep! :) - Hugh Guiney

what Levi? - Kimmy Sue

well, live on that high horse then in the burbs. I still take my spam salty! - Joseph Peterson

No judgment here though - Hugh Guiney

Levi: what do you mean by that? - Kimmy Sue

thats what I thought y'all! I am a twitter whore! oh shoot. well, if that be the case, here is a shameless plug: http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

oooh lol No way!! - Kimmy Sue

Got to go nice to meet you all......buy my books and follow me!!!!! lol - Julie Folkers

i helped a little girl go pee pee on the potty, that's how i make a difference yo! - Cora Allison

hi/bye Julie - Kirk

I'm not even worried about that... - Kimmy Sue

right on cora! - Victoria Mack

<--Confuzzled - Kirk

I think Jason is just watching over this chat, twiddling his fingers and laughing maniacally about his master plan to take over Twitter - Hugh Guiney

I have a funny feeling Jason is working on a LIVE CHAT SESSION!!! Haven't seen him for a while!! What do ya think!? Who is in>>> - LILCHICKENPOO

hey, new topic: anyone seen the informant? or listen to This American Life: TAL did a show about the real story behind the movie The Informant! ahhh! so good. - Joseph Peterson

i think jason is gone so i think im gonna go 2 bed too bad he left would have like 2 say good night....but good night 2 all of U check out my page I would luv 2 get 2 know U all & i think u woul enjoy my tweets ~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83 - pepamint83

Julie: Where are you on Twitter? - Dennis Jernberg

Alright look, , somebody name a category and I'll ask a controversial question then we'll all be having fun. - Joshua Fears

Shhh Hugh! - Kirk

the swine flu can kiss my booty - Kimmy Sue

i wanna see jason on Ustream - Cora Allison

Ustream Ustream! - Cora Allison

Good evening Mr. Pollock - Jesse Stay

hello - Rob Madden

No. thats not him....stay put for a bit!! - LILCHICKENPOO

Guys it's late he'd wake up the neighbors with a Ustream chat right now - Hugh Guiney

oh boy. its 2 in the AM peeps. I am out. fuhget about it! last chance: http://twitter.com/planetj... - Joseph Peterson

http://twitter.com/soulboykirk - Kirk

i think we're all in agreement, it's about time to bop our heads! - Cora Allison

you can't blast Lil Wayne at 1:48 in the AM - Hugh Guiney

Hi Rob. Seems you're here after Jason left again... - Dennis Jernberg

but Cali is two hours behind... - Cora Allison

Yeah...i hafta work this morning... - Victoria Mack

GOODNESS CHARLIE BROWN...THIS PAGE IS POSSESSED!!! lmao...keeps moving up and down on its own!! - Kimmy Sue

EVERYONE !!!! "jason..jason...jason...jason!!!" lol - LILCHICKENPOO

Ustream is preferable - Kirk

Jason *has* left, hasn't he? - Dennis Jernberg

Ustream Ustream Jason! Jason! - Cora Allison

I know...where is he??? - Kimmy Sue

its 3:45 here i should pretend 2 sleep stayed up a bit but get feeling jasons gone and just seeing how long his chat can get - pepamint83

pizza! pizza! - Victoria Mack

I totally get lost in friendfeed - Kirk

I don't know if he's left or not, but I don't think we're getting a UStream.... - Joshua Fears

MY HEAD IS READY FOR SOME BOPPIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

He always calls us in here...then he leaves us...like animals in a cage!! - Kimmy Sue

HELLO JASON...EARTH TO MR. POLLOCK - Kimmy Sue

Yes Kimmy ...me thinks that's his plan/thing ...to get peeps together - Kirk

I love Mariah Carey's new cd "Memoir Of An Imperfect Angel" I am listening to it right now - Rob Madden

@lilchickenpoo i totally agree! he should bop his head with us, if only for a few minutes... - Cora Allison

I'm on EST as well - Hugh Guiney

PST yay! - Victoria Mack

Hey, Rob!! How r u? & It's out already?!! - Kirk

HOLY CRAP PEP....I JUST REALIZED I WASN'T FOLLOWING U...NOW I AM!!! OYE!!! LOL - LILCHICKENPOO

Yeah, he tends to leave us in the middle of a FriendFeed chat... One reason we prefer him on Ustream... - Dennis Jernberg

kimmy i want 2 rt that can i lol? - pepamint83

i mean kirck sorry tired - pepamint83

LILCHICKENPOO THE ALL CAPS IS KILLIN ME LOL - Victoria Mack

Yes Kirk...and he does it the best!!! - Kimmy Sue

It's not out yet but I have my ways of getting it. - Rob Madden

LOL sorry, better?!? - LILCHICKENPOO

no i was right lol kimmy - pepamint83

where's jason? - Cora Allison

All my buddies have Mariah's new cd & I have no idea how - Victoria Mack

He's just letting us do all the work of getting the chat into the top FF rankings... tsk tsk - Hugh Guiney

Better! I love your name btw lol - Victoria Mack

this i want 2 RT He always calls us in here...then he leaves us...like animals in a cage!! - Kimmy Sue - pepamint83

Alright people I think I've got to check out. But you're all great. I'll be subscribing to as many Twitters and FriendFeeds as possible in the next hour or so. Then it's me and blankets. Oh and pleae, in the name of quality followers, don't feel the need to follow-back (I don't believe in follow-back) - Joshua Fears

he has too many ppl here 2 not come bak or set up ustream....!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

I can say how to get it but not in here. - Rob Madden

agreed hugh - pepamint83

LOL @ Rob : ) - Kirk

I'm way out on the West Coast -- PDT - Dennis Jernberg

Thanks for chatting. Night Josh. - Hugh Guiney

lmao...sure BUT don't get me in trouble hahaha - Kimmy Sue

did pep call me 'Krick'? - Kirk

Awe, nite Joshy... - LILCHICKENPOO

its almost 4 am in NYC so yes prop kirk lol - pepamint83

*hears crickets* - Victoria Mack

Josh: I'm already following you, so you'll be following me back. ;) Good night. - Dennis Jernberg

lmao - Kirk

How can we see how many ppl are here?! - LILCHICKENPOO

probably - pepamint83

*tumbleweed rolls by* - Hugh Guiney

is there a list with all the chatters in this feed? i would like to follow everyone... - Cora Allison

Mariah says the word shit in the first track. lol - Rob Madden

Jason....Jason.....Jason....jason>>>!!!!!!!!!!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

*buzzards circle above* - Victoria Mack

Twitter: http://twitter.com/dennis_... FriendFeed: http://friendfeed.com/dennisj... - Dennis Jernberg

yeah I like the Ustream better...this thing is great BUT i think the typing box should be seperate from the stream somehow...cuz right now it's crazy!! - Kimmy Sue

*kicks tumbleweeds aside* - Dennis Jernberg

Cora i'm following you - Kimmy Sue

Ustream!!! - Cora Allison

I don't think there is a list. But you can always scroll up and click on the people participating - Hugh Guiney

thx hugh - Cora Allison

Ustream needs Jason Pollock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

thx kimmy sue - Cora Allison

np - Hugh Guiney

Aw man, speaking of tumbleweeds, the funniest thing i saw lately was kendra on VH1 trying to describe one. Added three days to my life. - Victoria Mack

JAS - Cora Allison

ON - Cora Allison

i say we all tweet the same message 2 jason at the same time....Where R U Mister?? - pepamint83

20 people Liked this thread, so at least 20 people were here... - Dennis Jernberg

OK girls...lets all bat our lashes and call out Jason's name...MAYBE then he'll answer!! hehe - Kimmy Sue

If I haven't followed anyone yet, leave ur link b 4 u go!? - LILCHICKENPOO

lol Victoria - Hugh Guiney

stop hiding! we all want you here with us - Cora Allison

how hard is it - Hugh Guiney

Victoria: LOL! - Dennis Jernberg

He has a girlfriend Kimmy! - Hugh Guiney

lmao yes lets pepa - Kimmy Sue

following u Levi - Kirk

he said we should click like to get the rating higher for him - pepamint83

http://twitter.com/Rob_Madden i got 100 new followers on tuesday. - Rob Madden

He can't take the bait or he'll get an earful - Hugh Guiney

This is being archived on the Internet as we speak - Hugh Guiney

impressive, Rob!!! - Kirk

I know...Hugh..whats that got to do with it...I'm ONLY PLAYING AROUND!! - Kimmy Sue

ok everyone type it in the twitter box and when we count down here on 3 click send - pepamint83

SUUURE ;) - Hugh Guiney

LOL Kimmy has ulterior motives - Victoria Mack

ok 1 - pepamint83

2 - pepamint83

OMG no i don't...you guys are gonna get me in trouble - Kimmy Sue

done - pepamint83

Following u now, Victoria! - Kirk

u guys did it too right? - pepamint83

Yay! thank you! - Victoria Mack

did what? - Kirk

yw - Kirk

yes i did it pepa - Kimmy Sue

I'm already following everybody here. - Dennis Jernberg

Kirk..lmao....swoooosh over the head - Kimmy Sue

good kimmy sadly isnt it only the 2 of us who sent him the message? - pepamint83

I dont do this often but i will do a followback for you! I like those with good rapport LOL - Victoria Mack

qho me vicky? - pepamint83

OH!!! - Kirk

kirk u didnt did u : ( - pepamint83

yes...how lame!! I bet he's just watching the screen and laughing at us lol ;P - Kimmy Sue

we should all leave cause hes not here - pepamint83

"vicky?" LOL I was actually talking to kirk. you and me havent interacted yet - Victoria Mack

I told you, he's been doing that the whole time - Hugh Guiney

sorry, hard to follow what's going on in here I got sent to my own feed FFS then had to find my way back ..I'm not to Friendfeed crazy I tell u - Kirk

I am surprised he didn't set somethingup with the volume of ppl here...On the other hand, I think he may have to come up with a schedule in the future!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

dennis lol to the RT 2 Jason thanks - pepamint83

jason is still around - weirdchina

so i don't understand what I'm supposed to be typing in twitter stream or why - Kirk

He should make someone an honorary Jason Pollock in his absence - Hugh Guiney

Jason, - Julie Folkers

yes Hugh, fine idea that - Kirk

well hello victoria or vicky how r u ? - pepamint83

Hi, I'm Jason Pollock - Cora Allison

you ever made? - Julie Folkers

Let's all bop our heads... lol - Cora Allison

lol Cora - Kirk

HELLO INTERWEBS! - Hugh Guiney

Naw, I dont like posers!!!! I like the real thing!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

Hello Pepa or pepamint I'm fine! how r u? LOL - Victoria Mack

Hugh..no one could fill those shoes. - Kimmy Sue

I wss in the middle of a fight on tuesday on my other twitter account with 2 guys saying sexaul crap about my best friend yesterday. - Rob Madden

Hey, I had to tweet the link just in case he's still on Twitter. However, I suspect he's in bed, as it's way late on the East Coast. In fact, it's 1 pm here on the West Coast. - Dennis Jernberg

wow lilchickenpoo just j.k wow - Cora Allison

I would like to know Jason if you have been like our Peter Jackson beavering away for years before getting a success - Julie Folkers

I feel like a nerdy kid that just got left in a locker somewhere...while the cool kids went off someplace awesome!!! - Kimmy Sue

Rob, don't feed the trolls!! - Hugh Guiney

im good tired at 4 am in NYC & sad Jason is MIA but good : ) - pepamint83

Ok i can follow them Kimmy I will B jason - pepamint83

we all follow each other they just went overboard with it. - Rob Madden

lol...I know, but really...There r soooo many posers on here...the time we;ve wasted on them is insane!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

LOL KImmy all the cool kids went off to dreamland - Victoria Mack

YAY pepa is gonna be Jason...lets all Bop shall we - Kimmy Sue

Everyone make sure 2 tweet Ur pages out...make contacts thats y we are in here 2 meet new ppl & network - pepamint83

O and bop Ur head to the awesome music - pepamint83

i think so Victoria lol - Kimmy Sue

http://twitter.com/Rob_Madden - Rob Madden

INSANE!!! - Cora Allison

which is where i'm off to in a second...i know im on the west coast but i still have to wake up in 7 hours and im not a morning person! ...after the sun comes up that is - Victoria Mack

Ok, I have a good song...."i got a feelin" blackeyed peas - LILCHICKENPOO

Okay. Twitter: http://twitter.com/dennis_... FriendFeed: http://friendfeed.com/dennisj... - Dennis Jernberg

Jasmine Pollock - Hugh Guiney

if u haven't seen them on oprah yet...Google it!! theee best I've ever seen..."Flash Mob" - LILCHICKENPOO

thats like the JP Ustream theme song lilchicky - Kimmy Sue

nah, jason plays funkier music than that... - Cora Allison

thank you everyone for showing up for Jason's awesome chat, I will see you all later http://twitter.com/weirdchina - weirdchina

usually, lol.... - Cora Allison

and now I shall go MIA see my friend feed become biggest chat numbers - pepamint83

Yeah but it is by far thee best feel good moment yet in history!!! I promise!!! - LILCHICKENPOO

lol pepa - Hugh Guiney

gnight vicky ; ) - pepamint83

alrighty I'm carrying all of you upstairs to my room. preparing to lay my head down. - Victoria Mack

Hugh which part u like the best? - pepamint83

WoOoOaAAhH!! - Hugh Guiney

ooooh sh*t..that was funny pepa - Kimmy Sue

be gentle vicky - Hugh Guiney

pepa: all of it! - Hugh Guiney

I think I'll sign out of FF as well, since I have to get up in the morning too. So later, everybody... - Dennis Jernberg

You'll make a fine Jason Pollock some day :) - Hugh Guiney

LOL did you feel my laptop shaking hugh?! - Victoria Mack

i have a headache - Kimmy Sue

now u know y u should follow me lol - pepamint83

HAHA that made me laugh out loud - Victoria Mack

give me a sec. n I'll get it for ya!!! BRB! - LILCHICKENPOO

Yeah I thought it was an earthquake - Hugh Guiney

sorry. I'll be more steady next time. ^_^ - Victoria Mack

err one of those stupid google work from home bots just tweeted me - Rob Madden

Follow The New Jason Pollock ~~~> http://twitter.com/Pepamint83. - pepamint83

what time is it for you guys? - Julie Folkers

lol pepamint - Victoria Mack

{claps} thx for the awesome chat @jason_pollock - Cora Allison

4:08am for me - Rob Madden

All work from home/make madd $$$ easily = scam - Hugh Guiney

HOLY FU*k Pepa..i'm still laughin at that!!! I'm glad you said it girl and not me!! - Kimmy Sue

ok that's the time I get up to work normally - Julie Folkers

1:09 - Victoria Mack

ok so most of you guys are in the states - Julie Folkers

damn mariah cusin' on the new cd - Rob Madden

yep - Hugh Guiney

ok guys, i'm gettin' tired. i'm off to follow a bunch of ya'll on twitter. make sure to show luv to jason on Twitter, FB, FriendFeed, whatever... keep your heads boppin! - Cora Allison

1:10 here in Seattle... - Dennis Jernberg

thank u thank U i just took a little bow - pepamint83

ok it hurts tolaugh so hard when you already have a headache!! - Kimmy Sue

Julie: Yes, mostly in the States. Where are you on Twitter? - Dennis Jernberg