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Paul Buchheit
It's kind of awesome to see a big company make such a confrontational statement. It seems like a big risk -- I wonder if there's something I'm missing?
That was one of my thought exactly (the first part). - Micah
Paul, did you propose the "Don't be evil" motto in Google? - @zaps
I think maybe if they're popular enough they can get China to change some policy. Of course, it's probably going to end up like Tianamen Square, where the whole world thinks it's great but nobody in China is ever allowed to hear about it and nothing changes. - Gabe
I suspect Google have been waiting for this expected 'opportunity' to arise so that they have a legitimate (political) reason to drop the search result filtering. - zeroinfluencer
Sadly, I agree with Gabe - I think they'll go down in a blaze of glory. I hope I'm wrong. - Nick Lothian
The loss is more future potential than current. Baidu has something like 77% marketshare, but handing them a virtual monopoly at this point will be even more difficult to unseat in the future. Lotsa cost, worry over security/IP issues, and little benefit at the current time. I feel sad that Google might have to abandon China, but they're not making headway in marketshare, have... more... - Ray Cromwell
What if this was the plan all along? Increase market share as much as possible then stop censoring results? Getting shut out of China achieves nothing if the Chinese people don't know you exist, but getting shut out when you have 200 million users increases the likelihood of affecting change. - Kevin Fox
Awesome to see the inventor of "do no evil" say that, too :-) - Jesse Stay
Nope but this rocks - my love hate relationship with google swapped over to love today. - Dan owns
Google's at 17% or so in China - that's a lot of share to give away (although apparently Yahoo disagrees, but anyway). I suspect a lot of Chinese students who leave China to study won't be using Gmail as their default email address anymore (given that they won't have access when they go home) - Nick Lothian
17% market share in China represents more people than 100% market share in Germany, France and Spain combined. - Kevin Fox
I think there's a lot we're missing. Stop swooning and start thinking. The justification starts with a review of a cyber attack. Presume that is *maybe* the starting point. Possibly Google has infrastructure built in cooperation with the Chinese government that exposes Google to too much risk. Possibly Google _can't_ run the search service they've promised the Chinese government (either... more... - Christopher Galtenberg
Rather than discuss motives, let's discuss/predict the government response. One thing's for sure, they won't just let Google get its away. If the government is afraid of individuals defying it, and religious organizations, how do you think they're going to feel about a foreign company essentially saying <Eric Cartman voice> "I do what a want!". In fact, I fear for the employees of the... more... - Ray Cromwell
Good point Ray. I wonder if Google also cut off their China office from the internal network in order to prevent that? - Paul Buchheit
I'd be more worried about the soldiers showing up at the door of the Google China office with AK-47s. - Gabe
A country of well over a billion people is not something you want to mess with. Especially in the stance of Google. Googles search business relies solely on numbers. Cutting those people off is a huge gamble. But Google has some crazy stones to do it. - Hunter Clarke
Wow. I hope Google stands firm! - Jay
@Ray - yes, I'd be worried about Chinese Google employees. If you followed the China/Rio Tinto story at all ( then you can see a precedent. - Nick Lothian
I predict the government will launch a character assassination campaign and drum up nationalist fervor in the media. The government has already been unduly helping Baidu (probably People's Liberation Army owns shares), and I have a feeling we'll see stories like "Google uses human rights excuse to quit China because pure Chinese company Baidu is beating them badly" or some such. This... more... - Ray Cromwell
I think what matters today is not speculation about the Chinese gov't response, but how this should be responsibly reported. I hate how we collectively get lost in ooh-aah stuff. - Christopher Galtenberg
I remember reading an Op-ed in a German newspaper over the holidays that argued it was high time to show some backbone vis-a-vis China. On all levels. Not saber-rattling, but backbone. As in: We don't care if it costs us some money. The opposite of what short-term profit motivation has done over the last 15 or so years: Hand them the keys to everything, nearly uncontested...I applaud Google showing some backbone. Maybe this can become a trend. - Alex Schleber
Christopher, at this point, there's not much to report except quote Google's blog post, which is what most outfits are doing. Until someone interviews Google and representatives of the Chinese government, we're in an information vacuum. - Ray Cromwell
Christopher: Fair and Balanced, huh? - Ashwin Bharambe
@Christopher - only approved media outlets are allowed to speculate on the Chinese gov't response or something? The people in this thread know as much (or more) than the media do, so I prefer to hear their opinions. - Nick Lothian
Since we are speculating - I wonder what kind of attack gets access to the subject line of emails but not the contents? - Nick Lothian
Gee guys, overreact away. And I think we should be the ones thinking and writing/reporting, if you read... never mind. - Christopher Galtenberg
I'm not sure worrying about a government crack down is overreacting. I think it's legitimate and prudent to speculate that's going to happen. For some people, this might even have practical fallout: friends or family members working in Google China offices. - Ray Cromwell
Most Chinese repression is happening under the radar, and that's by design. They act like a secretive mega-corporation... they won't do something if it lands them on the front page of the NYT (hurting their bottom line). So consider what they could do that wouldn't really attract attention (because we wouldn't normally focus on it). Most certainly they won't do anything until this story slips out of our attention (36 hours, 30 days, 6 months from now -- it's up to us). - Christopher Galtenberg
Some are reporting that Google sites in China are now blocked. I generally believe they are getting more sophisticated at this, but recall that they cracked down hard on Tibet during the Olympics which was still covered by the media. - Ray Cromwell
Ironic Google recommends everyone putting antivirus products on their computers to defend against these attacks. Not sure about McAfee, but Symantec develops most of its products in China now... Hard pressed to find a bigger security risk than developing security software offshore in a sometimes hostile country. - Ed Millard
MSE FTW :) - LANjackal from IM
Pretty sure Microsoft also has a large development operation in China now, though not sure which products. - Ed Millard is a fairly detailed report on "Targeted Malware Attack on Foreign Correspondents based in China" by Nart Villeneuve (who was linked to in Google's blog post). In that case the malware was only detected by 3/41 tested anti-virus products. - Nick Lothian
"Moreover, the attacker(s)' IP addresses.. trace back.. to Hainan Island, home of the Lingshui signals intelligence facility and the Third Technical Department of the People's Liberation Army", pg 48, - Nick Lothian
think some information is better than none to the chinese. I am concerned with China getting away with limiting information to its people, now that Google wont be able to offer not even filtered data. Really, communist regimes feed off isolating the population from world information. Information is a weapon, and they know it. In Cuba for instance, the government has succeed limiting the... more... - Adelein Ro
+1 Nick, interesting article and interesting website. - Ed Millard
I think Google is truly pissed off at some things the Chinese government did. - Mike Cassidy
I applaude Google's move. However, while I do not like conspiracy theories, I'm suggesting one now. I do not think Google could have made such a bold move without at least consulting US government. What if a hidden agenda of this move is to provoke Chinese government retaliation and is a pretext for a full blown trade war? - кот
But why would the government want a trade war? Most of Obama's economics believe that resorting to protectionism/beggar-thy-neighbor policies will just repeat the mistakes of the Great Depression. If anything, given the world economy, most countries want to prevent a tit-for-tat trade war. - Ray Cromwell
It is rarely disputed that protectionism prolonged the Great Depression and yes, apparently Obama's economic team supports this view. But some view it as survivalism, not protectionism. For instance, tariff on tires from China was imposed in September 2009. With 7M jobs lost and no clear way to bring them back, "not made in China" is quite easy populistic approach. With that said, I do not want to steer this thread into the realm of politics and economics. - кот
The US can't afford a trade war with China (neither can China, but that's not the point). But I do think the US government wouldn't mind too much if China got the message that their hacking activities are going too far and are too widespread to be accepted any longer. - Nick Lothian
I suspect that if Google were to embargo China it will be as useful as the US embargo of Cuba. - Gabe
wonder how many _more_ Russian hackers will be necessary to include Russia to same list? - A. T.
outside Google China HQ: - quote on the label: "Google, real man!" - Ray(
ǝuǝƃnǝ: I think you're really onto something there. I'm more of a mind to think that the US government was very involved in this decision, and may have provided intel to Google. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
in response to Ray Cromwell, I almost agreed with you but then you do realize that 33 percent of a $12 trillion economy is kind of a legitimate reason to stay in business there, and reason to drwarf any other considerations from a business standpoint. The pr they will get will do nothing to diminish the profits lost from this decision. None the less, google has costs to spare... more... - Rajesh
Rob: I'm more of a mind to think that Google has provided intel to the US government :) - Tudor Bosman
Good point Tudor. I'm sure since the initial discovery it's gone both ways. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
China just passed a huge tort reform law. Might have something to do with it. - Donald C. Lindsay
I am not surprised tough, this is the road to which Yahoo, Flickr, and Youtube has been already down - Tardid
Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Facebook’s Non-Portable Data Portability -
Facebook’s Non-Portable Data Portability
wait... ReTweet is the illustration?! !!! #baduseoffriendfeedincludefeature :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
See-ming Lee, there's no other image in the post, so I guess FriendFeed is picking up the only one it finds. - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
oicoic - I didn't realize that this is an auto post - how do you get friendfeed to feed your images with media thumbs? When I try to do it on Friendfeed it always not contain any images - which is why I started to post via bookmarklet instead - annoyance. Do educate my n00b mind :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
If you use Blogger, it will pick up images uploaded to Picasa, through MediaRSS. - Louis Gray
I use Blogger, but I post photos on Flickr (because Flickr is my main hub: SML Flickr Google PR = 6) so obviously I want to drive all my traffic over there - is there a way to config the Blogger RSS to include media RSS somehow? - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
Not sure how, See-ming. I use Wordpress with the MediaRSS plugin. - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Right. Well I need to investigate this further. Maybe migrate to Wordpress - though that has been on my todo list for 2 years now :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
Thanks for your help though. It's certainly good to know that such plugin exists - it would be a good enough reason to prioritize that todo item higher! #smlthankyou - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
Louis Gray
Let me see... not going to CES (check)... no invite for the Google Nexus One unveiling (check)... no invite for Mac Tablet launch (check). Phew!
But at least when we google you, your Twitter updates show up in real time, so... you've got that going for ya. - Ken Sheppardson
You've got more important things to do anyway. *shrugs* - Micah
I must! That's what they are telling me. :) - Louis Gray
DO ANYBODY NO why teh Google h8s Loowiss!? - Jim #teamFFrank
I like Louis so it can't be the whole of Google... ;) - EricaJoy
Jim, "Your search - why teh Google h8s Loowiss!? - did not match any documents." - Micah
Erica knows that I am often overlooked. :) - Louis Gray
Nice choice Jorge! - Eric Florenzano
:( and you are also not at the FF round table thingy, either: to which I call shenanigans! - WoH: Professor MOTHRA
Doesn't seem like you missed a thing at that Nexus One unveiling. - Nathan Chase
Except the Oprah moment... - EricaJoy from IM
dont worry louis, we still love ya here on facebookfeed! - Allen Stern
Louis was on Oprah? - WoH: Professor MOTHRA
The Oprah moment of "everybody gets a phone!". I'm not bitter like Allen, but who doesn't like free stuff? :) - Louis Gray
I thought as much, though I think you would be a great guest for Oprah. Even though your accent is completely different to what I had imagined it to be :) - WoH: Professor MOTHRA
Louis - come to Vegas - it will be fun! - Jesse Stay
I'd invite you to Boston, but we don't have too much going on right now. - Martha
Martha, hello? There's a Pats game this Sunday! ;-) (My parents live just 10 minutes from Gillette Stadium) - Jesse Stay
Louis...I'm headed to CES and Jesse is teasing me with the possibility of BBQ on the outskirts of Vegas again...heads or tails? - Mark Krynsky
tails - Louis Gray
I'll go for you, Louis - Johnny from iPhone
I have been offered gratis use of a suite in the Luxor on Saturday and Sunday. Worth it? - EricaJoy
Kegger!! - Spidra Webster
Cristo I'm going just to see what all the hype's about - Jesse Stay
Erica, give your room to me! ;-) - Jesse Stay
@Jesse Alas, non transferrable. :( - EricaJoy from IM
Cristo, Jesse doesn't drink. - NOT THE CRICKET
I don't know, I don't think so, but that one I'm only 78% sure about. - NOT THE CRICKET
Jesse gambles at slots in small amounts. Otherwise, no. - Louis Gray
Awww it was heads...sorry Jesse. - Mark Krynsky
I haven't been there in over 5 years and I'm in the market for a new TV and want to see what's coming this year before I pull the trigger on one I have my eye on. - Mark Krynsky
Mark, that's fine - my brother will go with me. He appreciates good BBQ ;-) - Jesse Stay
and yeah - it's not that I *don't* gamble (although our religion discourages it). It's more that I think it's a losing sport :-) I prefer investing. - Jesse Stay
I'm a college football guy myself. Maybe I'll put something on the BCS championship ;-) - Jesse Stay
Oh hey - that is RIGHT, Jesse! Damn, what was a (not) thinking? I work about 20 minutes from Gillette Stadium - what town are they in? - Martha
Martha, they live in Franklin. Do you work at EMC? - Jesse Stay
No, I work at OneBeacon in Canton. I have friends who work at EMC. They are nearby - about 20 minutes from my work down 95 / 495. - Martha
Richard MacManus
China to be 3rd biggest wind power producer -
China to be 3rd biggest wind power producer
"China is set to become the world's third largest wind power producer in 2009, state media reported, as the Asian giant seeks various ways to expand energy supply to power its economic boom." - imabonehead from Bookmarklet
"The country's installed wind power capacity will reach 20 gigawatts this year, said Shi Lishan, vice director of the National Energy Administration's New Energy Department, the Xinhua news agency said Wednesday. That will lift China to surpass Spain and become the world's third biggest wind power producer after the United States and Germany, the report said." - imabonehead
drew olanoff
Louis Gray
2000-2009: Microsoft's decade of shattered dreams -
Innovate or somebody else will. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed
Gates will be back at the helm 2012 ...mark my words. - Thomas Power
Louis Gray
Harry McCracken
In 1998, all of AltaVista had the same amount of disk space that my $675 Asus notebook has today (500GB).
Louis Gray
Tim Cook gets $12.3M for watching Apple while Jobs was out -
I would have done it for less. - Russellreno
I would have done it for free. - Shey
I would have done it for free lifetime iPhone usage ;) - Shane
I think Tim was worth the money. :) - Louis Gray
10 Ways Freelancing Has Changed in the Last Decade
Tim O'Reilly
RT @BenBerkowitz: Citizens helping neighbors to keep their apt. heat on: Distributed immunity when institution fails.
Louis Gray
10 Things Microsoft did right in 2009 -
As much as I hate to praise MSFT, their execution of Windows 7 and Zune were killer. - James Williams
James... Zune? Zune? :) - Louis Gray
Louis Gray
Network Issue Cited in Rackspace Outage -
Thomas Vander Wal
Taxonomy of Social Networking and Privacy | Stanford Center for Internet and Society -
Terms and their descriptions used to describe data and information shared, found, and stored in social tools and services - Thomas Vander Wal
Chris Brogan
i finally used Google Wave for a project … -
Steven Perez
20 Greatest SF Movies Of The Past Decade - Superheroes - io9 -
20 Greatest SF Movies Of The Past Decade - Superheroes - io9
"The past decade has seen a lot of bloated special-effects brain-sucks... but it's also seen some of the best science-fiction films ever. Superhero films came of age, apocalypses ruled, and interstellar adventures came back. Here are the decade's 20 greatest." - Steven Perez from Bookmarklet
It would be kinda neat if SF/Fantasy movies were restricted to working with the kind of budget Legend of Neil has. Then they'd have to actually write a good story and cast well to even get it across. Then after that happened they could surprise them with a more usual budget. - Spidra Webster
That's in "no particular order", right?! Because "The Incredibles" is the best of that bunch, followed by Serenity and ESotSM (though i'd count that as only mildly SF) - ·[▪_▪]·
This is an awesome list cause he spans movies from different countries and includes anime! Paprika, The Host, Slither, Eternal Sunshine, Donnie Darko...don't know if I would have 28 Days Later on my list though - Shevonne
Hmm. Haven't seen some of these, and now I want to. - Laura
My favorites: THE HOST, PRIMER, and PITCH BLACK. - Steven Perez
Sean McBride
20 Best Websites To Download Free EBooks | Freebies -
Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
What scares Google? Missing the next big thing -
Louis Gray
I got your FriendFeed Thanksgiving right here! Eat up! #ffanksgiving
(c) FriendFeed overlords 2008 - Louis Gray
:) NOM NOM - Johnny from iPhone
who is the turkey? - Allen Stern
Obligatory weekly Louis Gray bump ... ( and now I'm hungry .... ) - Charlie Anzman
Nice! Virtual FF turkey. Where's the stuffin'? - Martha
Good ol' days - Josh Haley
Louis Gray
Stop Looking for the Next Twitter -
Good food for thought "Forget finding the next Twitter and start buffing up those previously shiny objects, the ones where your constituents need you today." - Shane
Paul Buchheit
Real bears playing Hockey -
Real bears playing Hockey
This is crazy and awesome, I never imagined such could happen in Russia (the public is crying "Shaibu! Shaibu!", which means "Give 'em the puck!", a common Russian hockey chant) - Peter Fedin
Oohh those crazy Russians - Özkan Altuner
Animal rights is a little less of a concern there. There's some pretty shocking displays around Moscow including bears. - Will Higgins™
@estherrudolph it is not a fake. it is a circus, not a real game or some gambling. also, looks like an old recording. - Я на Земле
How the heck did they get the skates on them? And how the heck could they learn to skate? - Robert Felty
I have often found myself wondering if apes could play tennis, yet here I see real bears playing hockey, and I am shocked.. and I am shocked that I am shocked.. confusing. - Sally Relton Shakespeare
How did they get the bears to hold the sticks? These have to be people in costumes. - Anika
they're real bears, muzzled; the sticks must be tied to a paw; the skates must've be fitted by pinning them down; they must've learned to skate by trial & error / reward & punishment; bears are really intelligent - they look like they're enjoying themselves - even the fighting! The worry would be what happens to them after they are retired and can no longer earn a living; if kept alive, depression can set in once the stimulation of performance and training ceases. - Sally Relton Shakespeare
Nothing wrong with bears, I should say, but definitely something wrong with this kangaroo - Karpuscul
That goalie sucks! - Jay
the kangaroo must be on viagra - Sally Relton Shakespeare
Kol Tregaskes
More amazing chalk drawings
Show all
Wow!! - Kol Tregaskes
awesome! thanks for sharing - loylum
No worries. - Kol Tregaskes
my fav is the butterfly. - Franc, a rememberer
Couldn't pick a fave, all very, very good. :-) - Kol Tregaskes
These are great! - Marci Golub
Amazing! - Dputamadre
It's so awesome, but it still makes me a little sad it's commercial. - Heather
I always wish they'd show what these things look like from something other than the exactly perfect perspective. Because to most people passing by these would look totally different. - Brian Johns
These never get old. Thanks for sharing. :) - Kevin Winn
His name is Julian Beever by the way: - Ozer Wrzl (EN)
He is amazing. I first saw his work about a year ago. - Michele Lorito-Chase
I love the perfect perspective tricks. What an eye! - Absentee
harika bir çizim.. - Yalın Akel
Bumping some old good posts. :-) - Kol Tregaskes
Chris Brogan
Social Media Needs To Become a Team Sport -
Louis Gray
Betting that Brizzly will be huge, ex-Googlers are working on things -
Louis Gray
Fortune 100 Need to Get More Creative with Twitter -
Praveen Vasudev
Louis Gray
Introducing “The World’s Most Intriguing New Companies” -
Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Twitter users share all early adopters symptoms -
Louis Gray
The Value of Twitter Data & the Future of TweetDeck -
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