Wow. I wanted to add a "like" on that, but it felt so wrong that I couldn't. - Bradley McSpinn
Just playing devil's advocate, don't take any of this personally or as my opinion. The logic is that there is no real danger, no lasting harm, that it's all perceived. - Ivan via fftogo
The only way you can claim it's not torture is if you are morally deficient and are trying to protect yourself at the cost of others. And that video is only a minute and a half long. Waterboarding sessions usually last much, much longer. :( - Lucretia Pruitt
Great example of where it would be nice if FF offered multiple characterizations of "like." I think this video is important, compelling, and well done. I cribbed it for my own feed actually. Yet, not sure how to express that sense of value without somehow conveying the lightheartedness that comes with "like." - Sacca
The amount of stupid, ignorant comments on the Youtube link is huge and sadly, probably a good reflection on the average person from your country. - Gabriel
I think I'm slightly disturbed at how they tried to make it "sexy" before showing the torture. I'm sure it was meant to act as a contrast, but it seems to take away from the real terror of waterboarding. - Summer
that's intense. a well made and effective commercial. important, too, though to not forget that this is just one particular chapter in a long story that includes, for example, things like the US military working in close co-operation (http://is.gd/KxG re policies, other links avail re very tactical co-operation) with Colombian death squads that cut civilians apart with chainsaws. (http://is.gd/KxC ) US policies throughout Latin America in particular have always been horrific. - Marshall Kirkpatrick
yeah, it's torture. that's the whole idea. if you're a terrorist and i ask you questions, you're likely gonna lie to me because you're a self-described enemy of mine. if i do this to you a couple times, you're gonna start telling me the truth so i'll stop torturing you. ppl have known for a long time that these techniques work for obtaining information. sux, yeah, but i'm not wanting another 9/11, or worse. you? - Wolfsbayne
I asked one of my pro-Bush co-workers what the U.S. should do if we find out that some other country was waterboarding one of our soldiers because they thought he might be a terrorist. He said, "That's different!" I just walked away. - Harvey Simmons
@Gabriel: You're probably right. (YouTube is blocked here at work.) A stunning number of people have turned the (appropriate) grief that we all felt about the terrorist attacks into something really scary. - Harvey Simmons
This is a phony issue and a misleading ad. Only three people have been waterboarded by the CIA since 9/11 - http://twurl.cc/2cf - and frankly all three deserved a lot worse than they got. Waterboarding is no longer permitted as an interrogation technique by the CIA. Jihadist propaganda, courtesy of your friends at Amnesty International. - Rob Sterling
Have you read Hitchens' first-hand account of his waterboarding experiment? Horrible. http://politics.drumsnwhistles... (excerpt with link to full article) - Karoli
Not used anymore..better re-read that executive order by Bush its still used - Fred Grott
Its more than 3 sir, it was used our own training programs of military for training of soldiers they had to go through it.. Navy Seals, Rangers, shall I keep going? - Fred Grott
@wolfsbayne The problem is that torture doesn't work. If I torture you, you'll tell me whatever I want to hear, just to make me stop. If I suspect you're a terrorist, but you're not, you'll either tell me false information to make me stop, or keep telling the truth, and I won't stop until you tell me something that fits my preconceived notions of the truth. This is why evidence obtained through torture is not allowed in court. - Ivan via fftogo
It's inhumane. We have court-martialed our own soldiers for doing this during the Vietnam war, and now we can justify it? Where's The Fish? - Harvey Simmons
Agree with Rob Sterling, AI would rather have worldwide terrorism than worldwide safety! - Gavin
@Fred Grott, might as well keep going, because you're not scoring any points. Waterboarding was eliminated as an interrogation tactic by Michael Hayden, head of CIA, in 2005 and hadn't been used since 2003 when he did so. As for training troops with waterboarding, that is to prepare them to face our enemies, who DO torture people regularly, especially when they get their hands on captured US troops. - Rob Sterling
@richard Your logic is faulty. You can't equate us knowing something or not knowing something with someone being beheaded. As Republicans are so fond of reminding people, this is a war, casualties are to be expected. It is worth noting that there are other methods of extracting information that are reliable. Furthermore, what makes the United States such a great company is that it does not stoop to other people's level. We (usually) prefer to stick to the moral high ground. Using your logic, we should have just gas bombed Iraq indescriminately because Saddam did it to the Kurds. And what happens when we're wrong? Like the 5 guys we released in the UK who are suing us because they claim we tortured them. Do we just say "too bad. Our bad," and leave them with their lives in ruins? Psyche in shambles? - Ivan via fftogo
@Jason thanks for bringing politics to FriendFeed :/ - Ivan via fftogo
It feels so wrong to 'like' this video. Are we on to something here? The smiley and the word 'like' almost makes you think you're a psychopath. - Peter Stuifzand
The Hitchens video certainly puts the lie to the Amnesty International video, doesn't it? So to sum up, Amnesty is lying about waterboarding being used currently by the CIA and they're lying about what it looks like and they're lying about how it's done. How much more deceptive could Amnesty International be? - Rob Sterling
Hey, Jason thx for posting. I wonder if anyone could describe the physiologic changes that occur when you force someone to aspirate water. Besides the release of epinephrine as panic ensues causing increased heart rate and blood pressure, I don't think taking water into your lungs could be a totally benign experience. Is this something that Mahalo would be interested in exploring? - Bill Koslosky
@Ivan have you ever been tortured? who's telling you it doesn't work? i'm not looking for court admissible evidence. courts aren't in the business of fighting wars. i'm letting the military and intelligence agencies handle these kooks the way they see fit. richard was correct above. we aren't gonna get anywhere with these religious muslim zealots by simply asking them. my feet are wet with all the bleeding hearts around here. - Wolfsbayne
the Vanity Fair article everyone is linking too is a hell of a read. And let's not forget Senator McCain's vote on the issue. Don't tell me he's not a tool of the administration http://www.radaronline.com/exc... - Erin Kotecki Vest
Did anybody else, while watching that, just kind of seem to "drown" yourself? It was a weird feeling seeing the guy having to spit up the water, like I could feel myself being suffocated. Such an awful form of torture. Not that there's any good form of torture... - Zach Flauaus
I ask what is a better alternative to waterboarding? Should we be force feeding suspects cupcakes till they ask us to stop? Not to mention that video misrepresents the act of waterboarding. - Shawn
@Wolfsbayne the problem isn't whether information will be provided, but whether the information is any good. Even the CIA said the information they got from KSM when torturing him was "not all reliable" (http://snipr.com/2sy8q). The other problem is, of course, the only way to find out if someone's going to give up information under torture is by torturing him. So we torture innocent people. You're OK with that on your conscience? What principles exactly are we supposed to be defending, anyhow? - Nathan Rein
I am just guessing here, but I do not think that waterboarding is the first technique used on these people. I would probably guess that this technique is used on people who are being less then corporative. I would also venture to take a guess that some really nice people came in and asked politely at first, and when they did not give them the information that they need, they resort to means which are less polite until you reach the waterboarding phase.
And really how many truly innocent people have been submitted to this technique. If a truly innocent person is being treated in this manner then that is a terrible mistake. But for rest of those savage animals that are allowed to roam free and commit crimes against humanity, I say let them be waterboared. Ask yourself this, if using Waterboarding techniques could prevent just one terrorist attack, and by preventing just that one attack we could save hundreds or even thousands of lives? Is it worth a few people (and when it comes to Religious fanatic terr - Jim
@nathan: The CIA waterboarded three people. THREE PEOPLE. None of the three were innocent. All three of them were complicit in the murder of 3000 people on 9/11. I thank God for those CIA interrogators - they have my THANKS for what they did. I am proud to be their countryman. - Rob Sterling
I tweeted a video from Vanity Fair in which Christopher Hitchens is waterboarded and can last about 17 seconds in a controlled environment. It's horrifying to watch. - Francine Hardaway
@nathan what principles? life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. so, if you're a person, group or country who threatens those principles or an associate of such, ima let my federal government do what they think is necessary in response to said threats. i don't get teary-eyed when terrorists/muslim extremists or friends of terrorists/muslim extremists get into trouble. you shouldn't either because they'd gladly cut your head off, or slice your wife's throat, or blow up your children. - Wolfsbayne
I guess my question was, are you OK with innocent people getting waterboarded, in principle? And if so, what becomes of the "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" stuff? We've already killed an unknown number of innocent people in custody (Google "Dilawar" if you want an example). If you're not OK with torturing the innocent, then how do you know a priori who's innocent and who's guilty? And who decides? - Nathan Rein
@nathan dangerous times my friend. i'm still assuming there are a lot of muslim enemies on the planet that need to be killed before they kill you and your family. so, yeah, i'm totally cool with collateral damage. i'm waaaaaay more concerned with you and your family than the odd innocent foreigner who might be tortured. my advice to the odd innocent foreigner - be mindful of the company you keep, or you might fall into the guilt by association group. again, this is a war, so the military decides. - Wolfsbayne
