Yeah, the point about having to take bugs to Google groups is weird, there should be a FriendFeed centric way to report bugs and wishes. I did get a speedy reply from my Google groups postings, but it felt weird, as I never normally use Groups. - Edd Dumbill
via twhirl
Conversations on FriendFeed aren't "connectable" enough for bug tracking. FF needs a mashup of Summize/Attensity/del.icio.us. - Kawika Holbrook
@Kawika: The mashup you're talking about can happen possibly only after they allow users to view more than 300 items (try going past page 11) - Yuvi
The official tumblr blog wasn't a tumblelog until like a month ago. I think sometimes a startup goes with what they know, and what's free, and migrate later. I think it's a great idea though, to have a friendfeed-powered support group. - Phil Glockner
Ha! We are ahead of the curve then. :) The official Profy product blog has been on the platform since the get-go. I think most companies still need to maintain an off-site blog for communicating outages, etc., however. - Cyndy
FF made use of the two Google groups long before Rooms were introduced, let's not forget that. - Aviv
Cyndy - correct. Remember what happened to that anti-spam company that had its blog on wordpress.com? They were DDOSed and they updated all there A refs to their WP blog. Pissed a bunch of people off, but wordpress.com didn't go down. What was it? Blue Turtle or something? - Phil Glockner
I don't understand this: Where does the discussion say they don't use their own product? Because some random guy (Earle Martin doesn't work for Friendfeed) wanted you to use Google Groups? Friendfeed consistently listens to feedback and what people are saying on Friendfeed, Bret, Ana, Paul, and the others are very active users, there are rooms, set up by Friendfeed, specifically for bugs and feedback... so, huh? - Mark Trapp
Mark, sorry I didn't know that. I've been posting comments about FriendFeed in various threads, even some started by FF people, and have never received any feedback or confirmation, and none have been implemented. I had a feeling they were getting feedback elsewhere but didn't know about the Google group (wouldn't have mattered, I don't use GG, I use FF at least for now). Gotta say the response to this has been pretty hostile. Do you work for the company? (Hard to know cause there are no profile pages.) - Dave Hussein Winer
Its not that different to those companies using getsatisfaction - use the best tools for the job and all that.. admittedly google groups is not what I would call the best tool for the job though! Looks like Mark doesnt work for friendfeed assuming his Linkedin profile is upto date ;) - riaz
i can't ding them for not using their product the way some folks do - they are developing a platform so hopefully focused on that mostly but more importantly everyone uses social tools differently - some read & some engage - i think that ff shows great potential and hope they keep doing exactly what they're doing - mike "glemak" dunn
Dave, I don't work for Friendfeed. I haven't had the same experience as you: features like Block, show all likes, rooms, the services that have been added, feeds in rooms, changeable room pictures, multiple room administrators, are all features that were acknowledged on Friendfeed by Friendfeed and later implemented. I'm a nobody, and have had Paul acknowledge a few problems I've seen with Friendfeed, and work out debugging them to see what was happening. - Mark Trapp
Are Paul Buchheit, Kevin Fox, or Bret Taylor following you David? If not, they're probably not seeing your feedback, especially if you're only putting it in comments to other people's posts. They do read the Friendfeed Feedback room (even if they don't comment): maybe that's the best place to put your comments. You're a superstar: creating threads specifically for problems you have with Friendfeed is definitely going to get attention. - Mark Trapp
I agree with Mark. The FriendFeed engineers have been very active here. I agree that it could be a bit more organized, so you could see those interactions, but that's true of everything here on FF. - Robert Scoble
dave: see mark's linkedin http://www.linkedin.com/pub/7/... - that's what i look at for most folks - hover over a user name and the window that opens up shows all their inbound feed info - a richer profile on ff would be nice but if folks link to one that already does a good job don't think its that big a deal - the web doesn't need more disparate profile locations imho - mike "glemak" dunn
There is Friendfeed feedback room. It works. They listen. @Cyndy You're always ahead of the curve :) Nice job Mark (and no, I don't work for FF either, just LOVE it - Charlie Anzman
Mark, I'm glad they're listening to you. I love the block command. I'm not likely to use rooms. I don't know if they're following me, I don't keep close tabs on that. But I have tried to leave ideas and questions in places I think they watch. I basically have what I want now, though they could have saved me a bit of time by pointing me to the API (I was trying to make what I was doing work with feeds). I had some ideas for them, but I still don't know where to put them. (And I'm not using GG.) - Dave Hussein Winer
Scoble, glad they listen to you too. You have good ideas. - Dave Hussein Winer
Dave, I understand: they're not transparent in how they prioritize feature requests or bugs (things like Block were added shortly after people really started asking for it, but the 300-item limit for going back in time issue that Yuvi's been championing for months still goes unfixed), but they tend to be pretty good about acting on Feedback. My only suggestion is that in the future, try using the Friendfeed Feedback room (http://friendfeed.com/rooms/fr...) People at Friendfeed are reading it. - Mark Trapp
Although Dave, I wouldn't be surprised if this thread here causes them to start following what you say and do more closely :-) - Mark Trapp
@Mike: I'm popping up everywhere (including the FF Feedback Room, and the Google Group) and shouting about the 300 items limit. Still unfixed :( It was acknowledged at the Google Group, but that was almost 2 months ago. No fix yet. :( - Yuvi
Yuvi, I'm pretty sure they're aware of your request. As you well know, there's a workaround. I'm glad they're prioritizing more important stuff. - Jake
@Jake: Err, what workaround? I don't know any.... - Yuvi
Yep, I agree to the "prioritizing" part. Just that they need to fix this too. - Yuvi
@Mark Trapp: Huh, er, what? Oh, right, I just saw Dave's reply to my comment on that item. I forget who pointed me to the Google group; it was before rooms had been implemented, and appeared to be "the" destination for support. - Earle Martin
Dave: sorry you feel that we have been unresponsive. We are transitioning from using the Google Group to the FriendFeed room (http://friendfeed.com/rooms/fr...). As others have mentioned, Rooms did not exist when the product launched, so that is the reason both exist. For private things (stuff you don't want others to read), email feedback@friendfeed.com. We certainly try to be responsive, and we appreciate your feedback. - Bret Taylor
Bret, I'm sorry you feel that way too! I've tried to be a good user and developer, but clearly I've not been doing my job very well. I'll try harder. Thanks for the feedback. - Dave Hussein Winer
FF has been very responsive to feedback and I'm an average schmo compared to you. I've had prompt responses (and followup) from both Ana and Ross. Ana even responded while working on Obama campaign in Michigan. Dave, now that you've been corrected...write a post on your wonderful blog (go badgers!) - Pokai
Pokai, I don't understand exactly what I've been doing wrong. I've asked a few questions and made a few suggestions. At the risk of breaking protocol, I'd like ask some right now, while we have Bret's attention. How often does FF poll feeds? Does it observe <ttl>? Any thought of a weblogs.com type ping server? Why are RSS descriptions ignored? How about OPML reading list support? A few items that I've asked about.. - Dave Hussein Winer
Dave: ha! I did not intend my message to imply you have been doing something wrong. If we didn't respond your feedback or it wasn't clear where to send feedback, it is our fault of course. I just wanted to chime in with the best forums currently, but I am reading this thread closely, and I promise you we will update our procedures based on the feedback from this thread and others. - Bret Taylor
Dave, I'm sure FF is thinking (and working) on those issues. They may not be ready to answer them yet or give any kind of timetable to a high profile blogger. Now that Scoble is trying to take over DC, get a Nokia N95 camera (Qik video) and go visit the new FF headquarters with your questions. I'm sure they'd let you in, and all of us FFers would love to see it. Plus you'd probably get more followers. - Pokai
Answers to your questions: We poll feeds every 20 - 45 minutes depending on time of day. We do not currently observe TTL in feeds. We have put some thought into a producing ping server (we currently use a number of ping servers to get updates more quickly). Can you clarify your RSS descriptions issue? Do you want them passed through the feeds to the other side, or displayed in the UI somewhere? OPML is also on "the list," but has been prioritized lower than other issues to date (sorry about that). - Bret Taylor
Thanks for the responses. I don't care so much about the pass-through (though obviously it should be passed through). The use-case is http://friendfeed.com/newsjunk -- at first it was an RSS feed but it didn't update frequently enough (new items can appear every three minutes) and didn't pick up the descriptions. It finally occurred to me that using the API might give a better response and it did. - Dave Hussein Winer
To be clear OPML reading lists are like feeds, when an item drops off the list you stop polling it when an item comes on you start polling. Also it seems to me that the polling period ought to be a function of the frequency of updates of the feed. You clearly poll Flickr much more frequently as well as Twitter. Why view user feeds as lower priority? - Dave Hussein Winer
Also, which ping servers do you use? (That could address the frequency of update issue.) - Dave Hussein Winer
Yuvi's "page 11" (399 item limit with "num=100") bug hasn't been fixed since acknowledged on May 6. My guess is either (1) it's a major overhaul (2) they're worrried about increasing loads too high. With a lot of people now in the 2,000-12,000 comments/likes range, only being able to see the first 3-5% is a pain. In the everyone feed, I can only see the last 1-2 hrs of Flickrs. It would be nice to see the last 24-48 hrs, so I don't miss things while sleeping. - Mitchell Tsai
I would NOT use FriendFeed for managing Web App Dev code projects either... wrong tool guys. In fact, I am GLAD they're not using FF for that. You need to have your issue/bug tracking product *separate* from your production app! hehehe! Plus, they use the FF Feedback room and interact with their users...so they do *use* FF a bit. - Susan Beebe
I've posted bugs in both the FF room, and the Google Group, and both times received a response within minute. Note that these were actual bugs. I've made feature suggestions in the FF room, and received no feedback at all except for other users 'liking' them. But isn't this what you'd expect? FriendFeed has to manage the product as a whole and feedback helps with that, but they can't get into a discussion about every single suggestion. - Robin Barooah
I'd love to have the FriendFeed bug list & progress stuff semi-public. With all the tech people here, perhaps they could get a lot of free help. The CEO of Wikia talked about the changes in philosophy he had to use running Wikia. Many of his best workers are volunteers who put in more time than the paid staff. Issues of control, maintenance, and responsibility are interesting in the mesh between open source & traditional. Why maintain separation between internal developers, Q&A, and alpha/beta testers? - Mitchell Tsai
