Rafael Robayna

I'm with you there, either way we're making history! - Aaron Krug

i thought bill clinton was america's first 'black' president. silly me. lolz - .LAG

It's not just about making history - it's about setting the world back on the right track - Chris Saad via twhirl

McCain needs to keep the votes from those who would have voted for HRC, had she made it to be the dems candidate, but were moving towards him once the nomination was lost. Not much more information about Palin this side of the pond, but it sounds a bit like a last minute contingency plan to me. - dario

+ - Marco (aureliusmaximus)

Just consider: Palin as commander-in-chief. You nervous yet? How about the military brass? - Glenn Batuyong via twhirl

Well-said, Chris. - Matthew Davidson via twhirl

McCain's choice of running mate is obvious pandering to get just that reaction from voters. Palin is a weak candidate, maybe weaker that Quayle who we remember couldn't spell potato or some such ridiculous thing. - Rafael Robayna

half-caucasian. either that, or we can just say he's black (versus *non*-caucasian) like everyone else. sorry, feeling nitpicky today. - Kamilah Gill

Except that Palin is staunchly anti-abortion. What may seem like a win for equality would in effect be a loss for women's rights. Firsts in gender or race may have novelty, but let's not forget there are long term results from our choices here. - Sherard Ewing

Good point. It will be a "change" - Eric_T

For me it's more about what's the right thing to do, who represents the best opportunity for a better America? Who is going to dig us out of the hole Dubya dug so resolutely? That's what gets me excited. It's nothing to do with race, gender, religion or whatever. I'm now an Obamacan because I genuinely believe he will offer this country the best chance right now. - Sally Church

Yep this is shaping up to be a very pivotal election. We're presented with two very different ideas of the "american dream" (yes, it seems we don't all agree on this means) - and how to achieve it. - Jason Kaneshiro

I agree with Chris. It's nice that we're making history, but much more is at stake than history. - Chieze Okoye

It will be interesting for Mcain and his running mate. I mean he doesn't even think women should get paid the same as men. - PC Easy via twhirl

not an Obamacan or a McCainiac, I'm an American - Jeff Quinton

For most jobs in the tech sector, you can't actually do much to guarantee that women will get paid the same as men. Most of the time the people working alongside each other have no idea what the other people are getting paid. And employers should be allowed to base pay on experience and merit. I don't see how you can equalize pay in most non-unionized jobs where there isn't a set pay scale. - Alex "Gamerpoints" Scoble

I'm not against the idea of women getting paid the same as men for the same job given that they both have similar experience and performance, but I don't see how this can be effectively regulated in industries where people are salaried. - Alex "Gamerpoints" Scoble

I can like that! - JMakesAwesomeSauce

I realized that too -- very cool indeed. - Tamar Weinberg

Exactly what I told my kids over lunch today. Historic and way overdue. - Kevin C. Tofel

There are firsts and there are meaningful firsts -- I'll take the Obama first over the Palin first any day. - Mitch Ratcliffe via twhirl

Couldn't have said it better myself, Chris :) - Mona N.

Palin is a joke conservative so I disagree. Obama needs to win to change this country for the better and for the future - Photo Larry via twhirl

That's exactly what my History teacher said. - OekelWm

I love the fat cigar that one cop is smoking, "You're under arrest buster" - Rafael Robayna

I'm going to try and call the Denver PD later this morning and see if I can get a copy of the police report. Somehow I think they are going to make this one difficult to get your hands on. - Thomas Hawk

Hope you get it Thomas. - Roberto Bonini

That's pretty amazing. Reading the article at ABC news the cop was saying that the sidewalk was private hotel property. Anyway, it'll be interesting to watch what happens with this because I have to believe a high-profile ABC producer is exactly the type of person you don't want to force a civil liberties violation on. What the hell is a cop doing smoking a cigar in public anyway....he might as well be eating a donut on that video. - Todd

If you're unclear how the world works right now, this image should clear things up. http://66.92.94.107/misc/newca... - Matthew Davidson via twhirl

Haven't you heard? George W. Bush repealed the 1st Amendment. - TranceMist

Now would be a great time to go off on an (irrelevant) anti-democrat rant, but police jackassery like this knows now political party bounds. - Dave Roth

At this point the ball is in ABC and Eslocker’s court. This case differs from many similar cases in that they have the money and all the resources (film, audio, witnesses, etc.) necessary to take on the City of Denver and the police involved. I would interpret any failure on their part to pursue this matter as either they don’t have the facts and law on their side or that they lack moral courage. - Robert Banghart

yeah its pretty wacky.. http://friendfeed.com/e/939e3d... - Peter Dawson

Ok, I've had to put about 6 calls into the Denver PD and the best I can get is a message to have someone call me back. I'm going to stay on them today until I see if I can get a copy of this police report. Will try them back in an hour. Police reports are public records and the report over this incident ought to be made available to the public. - Thomas Hawk

Keep trying, Thomas. - Roberto Bonini

Ok, just spoke with Mary Dulacki at the Denver Sheriff's Department. There was a Sherriff involved in the incident as well. She is aware of the incident, asked me to put a request for their report in in writing via email but said that she does not think she will be able to get the report turned around for me today. I'm going to keep trying until I either get shut down or get a copy of one of these police reports. - Thomas Hawk

Thank you so much for keeping us informed. It can't be legal to be arrested for doing your job in a public area- can it? - Abby Martin

Thomas, I'm glad you're all over this. The tape looks outrageous and it sure appears the cops were abusive. My only concern is what we didn't see in the video. I'd be disappointed if it turned out the crew really *was* misbehaving, or that some obscure and possibly unconstitutional local ordinance actually defines a zone around a door as private property. What a mess. - Chris Baskind

Thomas, I have been trying for about an hour and can get no answer either. The best I've gotten is a few messages into the civil liabilities bureau, but I will keep trying as well. - Aaron Krug

Obviously the police officers are going to try and put their spin on this thing after the fact. They were stupid and probably had no idea who this guy even was. Looking forward to reading and reporting on those reports when I can get them. The point is though that they shouldn't be treating *anyone* like that. Even if they are a reporter. Police are given extraordinary power of authority. They should suffer large repercussions when they abuse that authority. - Thomas Hawk

When this stuff happens with cameras around, you know much worse is happening elsewhere. Such arrogance. This is the new America. - Chris Baskind

Link to use written request for police report: http://www.denvergov.org/Polic... - Aaron Krug

Whoa. Love that you highlight the attention this one will receive versus the everyday harassment photographers face. - TreJack

Just got this email back from the Denver Sheriff's Department: Tom- There is no "report" per se in this incident. Asa Eslocker was charged with interference with a police officer, trespass and failure to obey a lawful order on a GSS&C (General Sessions Summons and Complaint). On a GSS&C, the officer writes notes on the summons itself which is filed with the Denver County Court. To get a copy of the notes, you need to go to Denver County Court. - Thomas Hawk

I'll try the Denver County Court next and will keep working on trying to obtain an incident report from the Denver PD. - Thomas Hawk

Also interesting in that video is the police telling the camera guy to shut it off. Fortunately, the camera guy knew that he was under to legal obligation to do that. - Dave Roth

Another update, this time from the hotel: http://www.windsofchange.net/a... - Thomas Hawk

Seems as though we do not have the full story. The comment from the Hotel adds a new twist to this incident. If what the Hotel says is true, it seems as though the police did have a right to ask the ABC crew not block an entrance to a building. Apparently they were asked to move several times and didn't. What we saw on the video was only the tail end of the entire incident. While I do not believe the police should have treated Asa as they did by shoving him in the street, they possibly had good cause to arrest him. - Jeff P. Henderson

Vincient: The incident or the statement? - Roberto Bonini

I find it dubious that a camera crew could literally *block* a hotel's entrance to the point that guests could not get out. It was likely 3 or 4 people at most and certainly guests could walk around them. There is nothing illegal about filming a hotel's entrance. Even if this was the case the cop could have moved him up the sidewalk, not out into the street. I'm not buying the hotel's explanation. - Thomas Hawk

have to check this out when I'm home. - Todd Jordan

The Denver Sheriff's Department just told me that they don't have the name of the arresting officer. Still working with Devner PD to hopefully obtain that and a full police report. - Thomas Hawk

As a friend of mine said today when he heard the news, "There goes hope." - Jason Shultz via twhirl

By "block people" they mean "allow higher-level lobbyists and congresscritters from being shown on air". I mean, in my less cynical days, if.. for example... Nancy Pelosi told me to kick an ABC camera crew out, I'd do it. - Wirehead

I'm much more cynical now, of course. :D - Wirehead

Some more info over here as well: http://friendfeed.com/e/5b1459... - Anthony Citrano

Wirehead, you make such a great point. I don't want to get into details here (not enough room,) but when I was in college I worked for a major political candidate. I was asked to do something (remove someone, basically) at a political event that I'd never do today. I was immediately shamed for it by a senior member of the staff .. but I was a kid, and was just doing what a campaign staffer told me to. I regret it to this day (and fear the video will show up eventually, haha...) - Anthony Citrano

Since none us were there, and the definition of 'block' is rather ambiguous, it seems like we ought not to jump to too many conclusions about the cause of the incident until we have more info. The improper treatment of Asa at the end of the incident seems a bit clearer in my mind. - Jeff P. Henderson

I'll translate. "illegal to block entrance" = selectively and ruthlessly enforce a hyper-literal interpretation in order to shield political big wigs and their sponsors from public scrutiny. - Matthew Davidson

It would be nice to have seen video of when the hotel asked them to not block the doors; the sidewalk was big enough that the cameras would have had to been standing in front of the door to have been blocking the hotel entrance. Interesting that DPD only arrested Reporter and not camera person... - Greg Lato

PR Director for Brown Palace Hotel in Denver: Shannon Dexheimer Public Relations Manager sdexheimer@brownpalace.com (303) 312-5921 - Jason Shultz via twhirl

@Greg, my guess is that Asa was the vocal one and the cops needed a person to make an example out of, so they picked him. Which leads me to believe that the crime was not as serious as the charges. If the whole crew had really been blocking the door in an unsafe manner, they would have all been forced to move or arrested if they didn't comply. - Jeff P. Henderson

The first "police officer" we see in the video is in fact a security guard hired by the hotel wearing a Boulder County Sheriff's uniform. - Jason Shultz via twhirl

Thanks ruzbeh and Daynah! - Justin Korn

I like it too! Great light work! But this make me wonders about FriendFeed and Photo Blogs. When we publish something with RSS in FF, we don't see any images. FF should have an option for photoblogs and automatically display images from RSS feeds of photoblogs. Anyway... My comment is at the wrong place :-D ! - Éric Senterre

Eric: Thanks for the comment. Thomas Hawk actually questioned this as well and I believe Sudar is working on a WordPress plugin to include pictures (http://friendfeed.com/e/ab9822...). It is something necessary and needed. - Justin Korn

putting out some pretty impressive stuff these days Justin. - Thomas Hawk

Thanks Thomas! - Justin Korn

photos should display correctly if your blog supports media rss. support for media rss was added to ff about a month ago. - Rafael Robayna

Rafael - not sure what I need to do differently then. As you can see here (http://friendfeed.com/e/2ff550...) the post did not have the image. Suggestions? - Justin Korn

Beautiful picture - Mike Fruchter

Thanks Mike! - Justin Korn

Really nice! - Charlie Anzman

SF at it's finest....FOG! - Susan Beebe

Charlie: Thanks! Susan: Indeed :) - Justin Korn

As I commented earlier, the employee in question acted outside the rules set by MOMA and took it apon himself to have a person ejected DESPITE other people in the gallery performing the same actions. As "Director of Visitor Relations", you are not some type of low level employee, you are a person who is the public face of an organisation. - John Worthington

I think it's SFist, SF Fist sounds like a completely different site... - Phill "Snowman" Price

Phill +1 - John Worthington

I like that you also mentioned the general harassment photographers are facing everywhere. It concerns me that this is getting to be commonplace in our society. - JMakesAwesomeSauce

thanks Phill, I'll correct that in the post :) - Thomas Hawk

I am with JMS but would add the photograhy 'IS A CRIME' virus has also infected the UK and France. - Mel.Buckpitt

increasingly I'm hearing stories of harassment in the UK. I think much of the recent harassment in the UK can be directly attributed to a public campaign on the part of the UK's Metropolitan Police to demonize photography. http://thomashawk.com/2008/03/... - Thomas Hawk

Excellent followup. I can't wait to hear the response to this issue form Simon and the SF MOMA. - Jeff P. Henderson

powerful, thanks for sharing your experiance - sean percival

I attended the Ekka this weekend (Queensland, Australia's version of a state fair) with the intention of photographing it. I rang the organisers before hand and they said while it is not allowed, they will not enforce it. The Terms Of Entry signage outside also said photography or video is not allowed. Within 50 meters from the front gate, I counted at least 11 DSLR in use. If these rules are going to be created, they must be enforced or face this type of situation occuring. Luckily, I was not 'Blinted'... - John Worthington

@tv the UK stuff is blown out of proportion and the met only covers London where u shoot daily without harm - Phill "Snowman" Price

It's nice to read a follow up story after everyones emotions quieted down. - Bob

Consider the fact that Thomas did take the time to follow-up. Reading other posts from over the weekend, I really think this got blown way out of proportion. It's almost surreal. - Charlie Anzman

Not sure what planet I was on yesterday but I completely missed this whole incident till I saw @stevenhodson 's post on it . I have had similar, but not as direct, experiences over the past couple of days...more to say about this on the blog later. - Karoli

I don't think this is blown out of proportion because too many photographers are experiencing harassment. Seriously people, we need to wake and up and start making some changes before our rights are taken away. I know this many sound extreme, but it all starts with a small act that no one says anything about or objects to. - JMakesAwesomeSauce

JMS... I guess the TWiP guys are gonna sell out of their 'Photography Is Not A Crime' shirts real fast! (I'm still getting a Hey Everybody!) - John Worthington

@Thomas: Thank you for following up (and listening to your wife about the choice of language on your original post). Like Jeff and others, I also wish the museum would respond somehow. - David Muir

me thinketh thou doest prostesteth too much - Gregory Lent

blint looked like an idiot once, you are going for the third straight day .. and that is not a hostile comment, simply offered as something to look at. there was a more mature way to do this, justification to the nth, or even explanation to the nth, is not efficient or effective. it is often better to simply let things go. - Gregory Lent

Shakespere does have a way with words, Gregory. I agree. Surely this could have been settled with a nice, civil letter to the management? Sticks and stones, you know? - Roberto Bonini

gotta forgive him at some point, or you'll be dragging it around the rest of your days. imo. - Josh Haley

Good post Thomas. I disagree Gregory. Because this incident has already received so much attention it requires clarification. Search google for Simon Blint... - Rafael Robayna

One of the things that bothers me about this whole affair is just the issue of Googling for Simon Blint. It turns up hundreds of references to Mr. Blint, calling him jerk, asshole and will likely permanently affect his future job prospects, From TH's account (which no doubt is truthful), his actions were objectionable and uncalled for. But Thomas does not have to worry about future job issues and searches in the same way. He is hiding behind an alias -maybe hiding is too strong a word but he is using an alias (as he freely admits), - Brian Sullivan

Very well said Thomas. - Shey

You know, it looks to me like photographing people in public without their consent is actually illegal in Canada - see http://www.stevekwan.com/archi... and http://www.cbc.ca/technology/s... - due to privacy laws. Clearly unenforceable, and I know it doesn't apply in this case, but it's interesting. I bet European (and UK) laws are similar. - Owen Byrne

I don't know who's right and who's wrong here, but if I ever see Thomas Hawk in my neighborhood, I am staying the hell out of his way. Seriously, this kind of contretemps scares the shit out of me. I'm a teacher. What if some day one of my students' parents decides to blog about something I innocently said or did in class that happened to piss him off? How long before my home phone and kids' pictures are all over the web? If you think it can't happen to you, well, don't be so sure. - Nathan Rein

For those awaiting a response from SF MoMA - to my knowledge they haven't issued one yet, but people started posting comments on an unrelated post in the SF MoMA blog. Suzanne from SF MoMA ended up responding, but she said that she didn't know the scope of the complaints and couldn't weigh in, and could everyone please stay on topic? http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/08... - Ontario Emperor

@Owen, As you pointed out, Thomas is in the US where it is Not illegal to take photos of people in public places. Usage of the image is where permission or release comes into play. For non commercial and news related uses permission and releases are generally not required. Of course there is always common courtesy. If someone asks nicely not to be photographed I certainly oblige. Thomas has stated many times that he fallows this mantra also. Of course that was not the case in this instance. - Jeff P. Henderson

@Jeff, I just brought it up because I take pictures myself, and I am in Canada, and I sometimes feel uncomfortable taking pictures of strangers and posting them on flickr (especially children or teenagers). But I never thought it would be illegal. - Owen Byrne

Good follow up. People really should be careful how they act in public. You never know who's got a camera. :-) - Jeremy Brooks

This has been a very interesting event to follow. I would love to hear a reaction from the MOMA to see if they are paying attention. - Michael

Quick note: fiasco means failure. - Alexei Tolkachev

Regarding MOMA's response, the only reactions I've seen were a comment in the MOMA blog and two verbal replies to Mona's post. It sounds like a response is being prepared. - Ontario Emperor

sometimes I think that the security guards need to pass around headshots of Thomas with a note attatched that says "Leave alone -- will cause bad publicity". The rest of the time, I just figure that they already have been passing around his headshot, which is why he gets stopped much more often than anybody else. - Wirehead

The reason he gets hassled more than anyone else is that he probably shoots photos more than anyone else. He carries his camera everywhere, so he's bound to run into people who object to it's presents or object to being the subject of his photos. I've seen him shoot and anyone that has knows he gets very focused on what he is doing, almost to the point of possibly not knowing who is around him or what is going on near him. - Jeff P. Henderson

(cont) What probably happens sometimes is that he will be busy shooting and someone will make an expression or gesture of displeasure to his activities or his presents. He might not even notice. The next thing you know the person gets annoyed and confronts him. I can easily see this scenario happening. - Jeff P. Henderson

Jeff, this excuses his losing his temper HOW? Andrew Peterson gets hassled more BECAUSE of his declared renegade photography (google "thomas hawk renegade photography") and not because of his so called dedication to the art of photography or his standing up for photographer rights. What Andrew wants is his own personal pass to take pictures whenever and wherever he wants. - Leather Donut

Leather, Have to agree with you on the renegade photography part. This has always rubbed me the wrong way. I think Lane Hartwell gave a comprehensive summary and opinion here. http://photobusinessforum.blog... But in this case I don't think that was the issue as he was clearly shooting in an area that he was allowed. - Jeff P. Henderson

I would disagree that re: about Digg. The comments I find on FF rarely degrade into the crass name calling I run into on Digg. As for group think: sadly, it's a constant in humanity. Your going to find it everywhere, and FF is no exception. - Stupid Emoo (aka Tina)

I can't process the group think mentality. I'm not sure if it's just that I'm too eccentric or that I can't stand people telling me what to do. When I first read the post, I was indignant as well. But I also know that my knee-jerk reaction is often wrong. I looked at the MOMA site. I thought about it. I read all the buried comments on Digg. I can't form an opinion until I have more facts. But I know that there is this insane witch hunt here, and I don't like it one bit. - Cyndy

@Cyndy: Groupthink is a fascinating subject, because just about everyone responds exactly as you do. It's the anathema of what we consider an independent and intelligent mind. However, it's also the basis of religion and community/social structure, not to mention the entire advertising industry. - Stupid Emoo (aka Tina)

I admit it: I got caught up in it and dugg the story when it was first submitted. I realized how insane this was when people found the guy's Facebook profile and implored everyone to harass him there, and when people charted the vacation schedules of the guy's bosses. The SFMOMA one is notable in that its groupthink now transcends Friendfeed, but have you seen some of the utter crap that becomes popular on FriendFeed nowadays? It's becoming much harder to distinguish it from Digg or Reddit. - Mark Trapp

Wisdom of the crowds :-) - Denis

It's all about who you follow. More importantly, who you don't - Not Not Geoff Schultz

Mark- I likey'd it as well and enjoy Thomas' work. I respect Cyndy and have gotten to know her a little. She's not only a good author but a lot more. There's basically two takeaways here. 1... The way things are right now, people will endorse stuff on social networks if their best friend does. 2... I didn't know half this stuff til I read this thread. Think some are getting way too wrapped up in SM and maybe need to take a few days off. The sad part is that (re 1) people vote in elections that way too. - Charlie Anzman

I think we all need to realize that this type of mob mentality is a symptom of a homogenous group. The more alike everyone is, the more likely the mob will kick in. Digg is, despite it's size, a fairly homogenous group of traffic seekers. When FF gets a larger user base, you'll see more 'mobs' but each one will be a smaller portion of the whole and less likely to affect the remainder of the group. - Stupid Emoo (aka Tina)

Very engaging entry, Cyndy. It is people like you that are willing to approach the other less popular angle that help us to avoid group think. - Not Not Geoff Schultz

I wasn't following this but it doesn't shock me. I still appreciate Cyndy's take on it though. My take: Internet people tend to be a little hypocritical when it comes to "fairness". Generally, it is "fair" if it doesn't hurt them. - David Muir

Nice, mature post. - Mo J.

Great post. Very provocative. I just posted a comment at your blog (Friendfeed comments are too short). - Nathan Rein

The other part of this is that Friendfeed continues to be an equalizer, unlike any other platform that I'm aware of, which is exciting and important - Charlie Anzman

Charlie, I think the great equalizer aspect of Friendfeed is its value, too. I almost think in order for FriendFeed to not become a Reddit or Digg clone with a few insignificant other features, it's got to drop the popularity metric of "Likes." It was a cool idea, but I think it's become a poor-man's "Digg it!" Then again, that's armchair architecting; maybe FriendFeed has some killer feature they've been working on for the past 2 months to solve FriendFeed's ails. - Mark Trapp

I think there's a significant difference, though, in the fact that nothing gets ranked in terms of number of likes. You can't "like up" a post the way you can on Digg. Yes, you can bump it to the top of the feed, but it will immediately be replaced by the next thing to get liked or commented, so the effect is less pronounced, I think. - Nathan Rein

Cyndy, thanks for forcibly turning my head so that I consider the other side of this campaign. I agree that the original article, much less the community response, has gone too far. - Phil Glockner

That's not true, nathan. Likes have a significant effect, much more so than comments, on what stories reach the top of the list on the best-of pages. They also have a big effect on the rankings on your personal statistics pages. - Mark Trapp

Also, even though the effect may be eventually diluted, the mob here is just a better class of mob overall. :-) - David Muir

hmm ... Okay, I take it back. I never use either of those Friendfeed features. Never mind. - Nathan Rein

For my part, this isn't group think, it's camaraderie. I, amateur that I am, have been harassed by numerous times while shooting in public places with my stupid little Kodak Z712is, which is point and shoot. The fact that a security guard or even a museum official doesn't understand photography doesn't excuse the fact we have a right to be at and shoot in these locations. Most reasonable people, I believe, would take "hand held cameras only" to mean "no tripods". Size of camera is a pretty poor metric. - Brian Norwood

And also, I'm sure I can get closer with my Z712's 10x zoom than some guy with a 14MM wide angle lens. So, this whole "spying" issue is silly. And I don't care about Thomas Hawk's alleged celebrity. I don't even know who he is outside of Friend Feed. I'm just tired of reading these kind of stories when allegedly by law, we have the right to shoot anywhere where a person does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy. If you expect privacy in a museum, there are bigger problems here than cameras. - Brian Norwood

Museums are not public property, and they have the right to set whatever rules they see fit. Did they handle it incorrectly? Yes, probably, but usually if you are polite and ask them to review their rules that allow photography, everything can be resolved. From the fact that Hawk had to be escorted out, it doesn't sound like he responded well to the security guard's concerns. - Jason Carreira

I "dugg" the story and would do it again. I had no idea people were staking the guy and do not agree with that. Now in what I have read about Thomas online in a relatively short time I will grant you, I do not believe that is the type of behavior he would encourage. My take away from his post is that he was pissed off, and was utilizing the platform available to him to share that frustration likely in hopes of generating dialogue and/or change by the facility. Is the employee as big a jerk has he was protrayed, maybe not. But I do not feel like Thomas is the evil egomantical jerk he is being painted as. Furthermore, no one walks on water as far as I am aware - so I don't accept the idea that a CEO can't do dumb things occassionally. I will agree if anything should be changed by Thomas it is the removal of asshole from his post. - Ruth Ferguson

Jason, did you read the original article that Thomas wrote detailing the event? - RAHwsomeSHEENsauce™

Yes there are 2 sides to every story and we only heard one, but I don't accept that it was group think - as much as it was a degree of trust based on what we feel we "know" about Thomas. I basically assumed that publicity if enough attn was gained via SM would cause SFMOMA to issue a response and their side of the story. It is a lot easier to encourage that with a click of a button vs calling their offices. Finally, how is everyone cheering and "liking" your post any less "groupthink?" - Ruth Ferguson

I don't like the "mob rule" aspects one little bit. I like Thomas a lot from my experiences here, but although I am inclined to side with him, I only have his side. Sure, I did my own research and the guy is certainly suspect, what with sending goofy letters to the editor at Entertainment Weekly magazine, but that doesn't necessarily mean the guy should be lynched. Ruth, to your point, I think Cyndy's post doesn't make me question whether she's "abusing her power". Thomas', and the ensuing reaction... - Robert Seidman

...do lead me to believe that power *can* be abused in this way. I'm not really sure whether it was or wasn't, but something about the way it went down didn't feel right to me. - Robert Seidman

I agree, this whole thing has become insane, especially considering that only one side of the story has become known at this point. I didn't complain when it took over FriendFeed (highly annoying as that was), but finding his Facebok profile and calling for people to harass him/his bosses isn't something I like seeing. If I wanted to see the 4chan mentality, I would go to 4chan. - Stellina

I think Cyndy is way off in her interpretation of this event. The harassment that Mark mentioned came from the digg community and it amounts to cyber-bullying not group-think. It is also a completely separate incident from what Thomas experienced at the SFMOMA. The backstory for Thomas' complaint is a growing public distrust of photographers not some bullshit about taking candy from babies. Its about companies and governments manipulating what gets into the news and public discourse. - Rafael Robayna

Its also about privacy and people wanting more of it in a world where they get their picture taken discreetly by hundreds of cctv cameras, camera phones and other devices every day. Finally its about uneducated (can't tell the difference between a wide-angle and a telephoto lens) jackasses that are supposed to be protecting the interests of the the governments and private companies they work for and do so badly. - Rafael Robayna

I too disagree about the comparison to Digg. This community is a LONG way from being anything close to Digg. I voted up the story because people who are entrusted with brand reputation (as this guy was) should be far smarter about how they deal with the press (and everyone, today, is the press) than they are. Personally the guy should be forced to take customer service classes to understand his role in dealing with the public. If I were running the museum he wouldn't have his job any longer after today. - Robert Scoble

Let's turn this around. Would this guy keep his job if he kicked a journalist from the New York Times out of the museum? No he wouldn't. Thomas Hawk is just as powerful as any journalist from the New York Times (and has, even, been in the New York Times). The guy who kicked him out should be fired, or at minimum, retrained for how to deal with the new press (ie, everyone). - Robert Scoble

And Cyndy, sometimes a mob is needed to make a point that this kind of stuff is totally unacceptable. This organization had a rule that photography was allowed. It should be enforced consistently with all patrons. Also, don't allow your employees to make it up on the spot and cause yourself and your brand embarrassment. Finally, if someone is a paying member of your organization they deserve better treatment than getting walked to the front door. - Robert Scoble

Well written Cyndy, but I respectfully disagree. There is a bigger problem here than just this one incident. There have been at least three stories in recent weeks about photographers being harassed by police and other "public servant" types. We are starting to walk that fine line between freedom and oppression and it's time that the "mob" or community (wherever it may be) starts to speak up about this. When someone is following the rules or is in a public space, no one has the right to harass him. - JMakesAwesomeSauce

Perhaps Thomas Hawk could have dealt with this in a more mature manner, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because I often say things in anger that later I would have expressed differently. I realize we only have one side of the story, but Simon Blint and SF MOMA have not responded with their side of the story. Again, I'm more concerned about the deeper issue of individual rights and am glad that Thomas brought this to light. - JMakesAwesomeSauce

JMS: there's no excuse for the other side of the story. Think about what would happen if the New York Times was walked to the front door. Both this guy and the PR director would be looking for jobs right now. It wouldn't even matter if the NYT photographer was rude, or difficult to deal with. That's just how things work. People with power don't get shown the front door in our society. The mob now has power and is demanding their heads and rightfully so. - Robert Scoble

True Robert, As someone who works with the public every day, I completely agree. But I'm still interested in whatever excuse they might make. If only to hear how they are going to rectify the situation. - JMakesAwesomeSauce

i read the story. yes calling names such as Thomas did is perhaps over the board but behaviour exhibited by security guy was totally uncalled for as well. As said, dealing with new media is smth all those who have to deal at one or another point of time must learn. There was this year a similar scandal where a guy, whose mother was cheated, called on LiveJournal on mob to "bring down" the producer of the drug sold to his mother for big money. That company never recovered since. - Hayk Hakobyan

Being apologetic and polite would not have cut it. Winning the mob, like in old times is what will bring about the change, although it might seem painful for some. Now this sec. guy will think again before behaving similarly. - Hayk Hakobyan

Cyndy points out that 'the SF MOMA employee’s name is all over the tubes this weekend with no chance to defend himself'. While we have not heard the other side of the story yet, Simon and the SF MOMA have now had 2 days to respond and they have not. If they really cared about this issue it seems like they should have responded quickly to diffuse the viral spread of TH's side of the story. As far as blindly supporting one side of the story, I always consider the source. I have been following TH's Blog and photography for several years, and have attended photo walks with him. So in my case he in not a total unknown. I have a reasonable belief that he is telling the truth based on his past accounts of similar incidents. As far as the 'hand held camera' allowed statement on the SF MOMA web site, I take that to mean any camera that I can hand hold without a tripod. If they mean only P&S cameras then they need to say that, otherwise anything goes. - Jeff P. Henderson

I hear the objections to TH's use of the expletive and frankly they just aren't doing it for me. Yes, he's a CEO but so was Ted Turner and he wouldn't have hesitated to throw on a half-dozen more colorful qualifiers if this incident happened to him. I'm also hearing a lot about Blint's side of the story. If he has one he should have had it ready the day he chose to interpret SFMoMA's explicit rule. I'm sorry but this is what happens to people who try to hide in the shadows; the lights get turned on! I hear Brand Management being tossed around as well. Unfortunately I'm hearing that it's TH who is supposed to manage Blint's brand. Pshaw! Blint has a PR problem that he needs to rectify. The lesson learned predates FF or blogging; never pick a fight with someone who buys their ink by the barrel. - Christopher Harley

Cyndy, I appreciate your take on the controversy, and I also respectively disagree. Allegedly, TH was wronged by the MOMA, and he took to the interwebs to bitch about it. All his "mob" did was spread the word, like passing out leaflets at a concert asking passers-by to support anti-deforestation. I do agree that kind of in-your-face sensationalism can be annoying, but distribution methods don't have to please everyone. - Pete Delucchi

At the point at which the employee's name was posted, it was over the line. If SFMOMA had done the reverse and called out Hawk as a belligerent nuisance, would the reaction be the same? Also, why is SFMOMA required to respond online? The personal info angle is what is completely inappropriate. - Cyndy

I've been on Flickr for several years, and I've seen Thomas Hawk's crusades before. He truly enjoys tilting at windmills and bringing along as big a torchweilding mob as he can gather. There've been issues a lot smaller than this that he's spent weeks ranting in multi-page diatribes about. Now that he has this new forum for mob-gathering, expect to be rounded up on a semi-regular basis to rally to his defense after he's pushed someone into a confrontation. - Jason Carreira

I think the real issue stems from trumped up "security" meant to keep us "safe." All sorts of power-tripping security guards and police have become accustomed to people immediately accepting restricted rights with the magic words "post 9/11." The reason it is such a hot-button issue is that most people have not pushed back against the Patriot act and all it (theoretically) allows law enforcement to restrict. But sure, go right ahead and make this a "Diva" vs. "Employee" issue. And may thee forever lack moisturizer on thine inglorious vacations. - Richard Walker

It should be pointed out that Thomas Hawk is a pseudonym. - Jason Carreira

Jason has a point, and until we were discussing it, I'd forgotten that was a pseudonym. Now I'm sure it was over the line. He won't use his real name yet had no trouble publicizing someone else's. - Cyndy

Cyndy, I appreciate your post and criticism. A DSLR is most certainly a handheld camera. In the case regarding Jill Greenberg, yes, I feel it is abhorrent for someone to strip 30+ children naked and purposely use lollipops to get them *extremely* worked up and provoke them into anguish as an art project. Look at the photos. It's more than just a few tears. I doubt you'd subject your child to that sort of activity, I doubt most rational human beings would either, but that's a different story. - Thomas Hawk

Again, in this context I don't care if he's famous or has a fake name. "Hand held" is a technique, not a type of camera. I just browsed the Best Buy ad, and there weren't any "Hand held" cameras there. And, as I said, you are dealing with poor customer service here, and a growing trend to infringe on photographers rights whether they be shooting for fun or profit. If this had happed to ANYONE I would have reacted the same. - Brian Norwood

Robert, you are a moron. You are perpetuating the mob mentality that is described here. A NYT photographer should NOT have more rights or 'power" than Joe Schmoe off the street. They should have the same treatment as defined by SF MOMA policy. Oh and Thomas Hawk aka Andrew Petersen is culpable in inciting this lynch mob mentality. http://bit.ly/4dWLZy - Trebor Elbocs

Cyndy... "If SFMOMA had done the reverse and called out Hawk as a belligerent nuisance" Lets be clear on something, SFMOMA had nothing to do with this. The employee in question acted outside the rules set by MOMA and took it apon himself to have a person ejected DESPITE other people in the gallery performing the same actions. And as "Director of Visitor Relations", you are not some type of low level employee, you are a person who is the public face of an organisation. - John Worthington

Jason... Crusades? How about issues that need dealing with. How about the right to attend a public space without hassel? How about the right to enter a property and while following the guidelines of that organisation not be ejected. As a person who got questioned more than 6 times on Saturday at our state fair here in Australia when I was taking photos of MY daughter. Grab me a torch - John Worthington

Cyndy, Jason, you are just figuring out that TH is a pseudonym? This is common knowledge and has been for about 7 years. What does that have to do with this issue or anything else for that matter? - Jeff P. Henderson

We all must occasionally vent steam. Social networks enable our venting to more efficiently affect a large group of people, giving them the chance to also vent steam where previously they may not have had reason or opportunity to do so. I'll leave my pitchfork aside for now. - Slippy Lane

The new 'likey' is for the dialog.... which (while perhaps a little out of control) has been the most important part of the story. Food for thought for everyone. Mark T - Agree Friendfeed needs a few new features, especially for those of us that keep it open to a lot of people, but think about how many people right now are sitting back and considering their own stuff ... possible including my own Facebook rant earlier this week, which was very much off the top and could have been much better. - Charlie Anzman

and me = Paolo.koochehsevom@GMail.com - Mehran

sean[at]dailyhaggis[dot]com - Haggis (Sean)

16 invites left for jaiku ! - arnet

i'd love one naor[at]naormark[dot]com - Naor

yolanda.o (at) gmail.com - Yolanda

amir.beitollahi@gmail.com please - Amir Beitollahi

scoopy@iki.fi - Ville

kr.doyle@gmail.com - Thanks! - Kevin Doyle

scholarist at gmail dot com Thanks a bunch - K Welch

10 invites left for jaiku - arnet

Merci arnet! - Majento™

@Majento no problem ! - arnet

joyntheir at gmail.com please if you have any left - Joy O'Hare

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thanks!! - Rafael Robayna

Clearly it was missing something: me. If I had been involved, then I am sure it would have been the most sexy thing you can ever imagine - RAPatton

she's full of it and by "full of it" i mean they're two fine-looking ladies. when you have cams and a bunch of union guys all around you looking i'm sure it's not that sexy - Cee Bee

RAPatton....bang on as always - Toby Graham

I'm skeptical. Less sexy than, say, accidentally putting one's hand in an operational garbage disposal? - XDpaul

It's true. If you've ever been on set, this sort of thing is not remotely sexy. If it looks sexy when you watch (as an audience member), it means they're pretty good actors. :) - Ayşe E.

I've heard Woody Allen can be a bit of a perfectionist when it come to getting scenes like this just right... must have been grueling work for the actresses. - Rafael Robayna

Penelope Cruz is an awful actress. I don't care how hot she is. Did anyone see "Sahara"? If so, you know what I'm talking about. - Bill Patton

i disagree. she was excellent in "volver." perhaps she plays her roles better in spanish, but she was great in that movie - Cee Bee

Scarlett Johansson has described her onscreen kiss with Penelope Cruz "the least sexy thing you can ever imagine.". Said the least sexy woman you can ever imagine - Outsanity

The smile on my face isn't going away today. - Mo 'Killer Sauce' Kargas

"She said at the premiere in Los Angeles: 'There were 60 crewmen eating salami sandwiches. It's really the least sexy thing you can ever imagine.'" An informal survey of the 60 crewmen revealed the opposite, with 92% describing the kiss as "extremely sexy," 4% as "very sexy," and 2% as "OMG, eww." One crewman was treated for medical injuries related to failure to chew a salami sandwich before swallowing and acute priapism. - Karim