Edwin Khodabakchian

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10 predictions for the world of January 1, 2020 - http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2010...

1 hour ago from Paul Buchheit - Comment - Like - Share

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"Steven Colbert will win the 2016 election -- the left will think he's joking, the right will think he's serious, and both sides will think that they are tricking the other" - Bret Taylor

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Let me save this article somewhere in the cloud and we will se then :-) - Florin Grozea

I like the part about people going to Mexico to get health care. Travel and health care will become one and you will get a one week on the beach with any procedure! - Edwin Khodabakchian

I learned a lot -- especially the Palin/Gore win the 2014 presidential election one. That sounds like one we can bank on. - Stephen Mack

On a more serious note, this is a great read, Paul, thanks. How many of these (such as Facebook or the war on drugs) represent your view of what you predict will happen versus what you would like to have happen? - Stephen Mack

I think all of them will happen Stephen, though my timeline may be optimistic. - Paul Buchheit from iPhone

I'd like to believe that the increasingly rapid evolution of political movements will make it easier to resolve the health care issues, and possibly even the financial bubbles, especially if political movements ever become an educational force. Of course, the opposite pitchforks and torches scenarios also seem possible to me... - Jason Wehmhoener

Louis Gray

Matthew and Sarah caught drinking and driving on Christmas morning, at Grandma's.

December 25 - Comment - Like - Share

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Thank goodness all the police aren't enforcing this stuff on a holiday, right? - Louis Gray

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Those outfits are great! - Beau Liening

The cars are a gift from my mother in law. (Their grandma) - Louis Gray

They are so cute! - Edwin Khodabakchian

I just pointed to these pictures and told my 27 year old daughter that this is what I'm asking Santa for next year. She says, a toy car? I say no. Grandkids! She slapped my arm and told me to bite my tongue. :) - Dawn

They're headin' straight for us! - Josh Haley

Sarah can't see the road in the first picture! She's tipping the bottle up so high. - Rochelle

At least Matthew is ready to call 911. :D - Yolanda

Wonder what their fine will be? Lovely pictures. - Sandra Large

Robert Scoble

Conversation for @corvida who laments the days of Twitter old when we actually talked with each other:

December 23 - Comment - Like - Share

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So, what should we talk about? Personally I think we're just tired of all online socializing. - Robert Scoble

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And normal people do this kind of stuff over on Facebook (I watch my wife talk to her elementary school friends there). - Robert Scoble

While the "pros" have figured out you can't get paid for doing work online here or on Twitter, so they just put links to their blogs. - Robert Scoble

"I think we're just tired of all online socializing" I do it every minute of everyday on FriendFeed. - Johnny Worthington

Twitter isn't that good for conversations. I use Facebook for conversations with my "IRL friends". For social conversations I've recently come back to FriendFeed (it IS better than Twitter when it comes to conversations), Google Talk, Google Reader and in some extent...yes Twitter. But as you said, Twitter has been populated by people that only posts links to their blogs...and often never answer their replies. - Patrik Johansson

Johnny: the world isn't like you and me. And, anyway, even though you and I do it here, most normal people do it on Facebook. - Robert Scoble

Most normal people do it on email. Facebook is still a distant 2nd. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Bruce: I don't think so. Almost all of my friends have Facebook (no Twitter, no FriendFeed, no Google Reader, no Flickr, no Last.fm etc etc). And most of them check their email once a week, Facebook 3 times a day. I'm talking about personal use here, not work mail. - Patrik Johansson

Most plans and communication is still happening over SMS and phone calls. I understand I'm not normal. I sat around a table with 9 people last week. Everyone had a computer, 4 had an iPhone, no one knew what Android was, 7 had a Facebook account, 3 had a Twitter account (2 only tweeted less than 5 times) and everyone knew of FriendFeed because of me doing the podcast. We're niche. - Johnny Worthington from iPhone

The elite players are having secret walled off conversations in Google Reader. - Louis Gray

I agree Johnny. SMS and phone are by far the most popular communication tool. Most people I know know about iPhone but not Android. I don't think that communicate on the web is so big that we think it is. - Patrik Johansson

Louis: exactly why Google Reader is dead. :-) - Robert Scoble

Google Reader isn't dead Robert. I've tried to follow your tip, about getting the news from Twitter. It doesn't work. The biggest problem is that the company/website/blog need to have a Twitter account and update it...well, that may be the case in the U.S. But if I want to follow any Swedish newspaper or something, they don't have Twitter...but I can subscribe to their sites through Google Reader. That's why RSS isn't dead, and is still beating Twitter. - Patrik Johansson

Robert you're awesome for starting this thread. As for your first comment, I'd have to disagree because we're no longer socializing. We're marketing and the shit is about to hit the fan. I can just feel it coming down my Twitter stream. - Corvida

The (read: my) problem is that with Facebook it's too intimate. People wouldn't understand the things I talk about at home and on a personal level because it's usually race related and people of a different race would feel some sort of way about engaging in such a conversation. Either way, that's not what I want to talk about online. - Corvida

I use all four things. I use Google Reader for news articles. I use Facebook for communication with Family. I use Twitter for people who are in subject areas that I'm interested in such as farming. I use Friendfeed for discussions (or sometimes arguments). - Judy Jones

I want to go back to talking and sharing the topics we're all interested in. I want to go back to discussing the cool little gems we find around the web. I don't want to just review them. I want to DISCUSS them. We used to do that a long time ago. Myself, Louis, Steven Hodson, Jeff, Rahsheen, Sarah Perez, Shey, Frederic and a host of other people. We DISCUSSED Friendfeed. We DISCUSSED Twitter. We DISCUSSED RSSmeme which half the world no longer knows or cares about.... - Corvida

We discussed everything topic related and we loved it. We built our own hype instead of getting sucked into major blogs and what the rest of the kool-aid drinking web was saying. WE did that and it felt good. It felt like a community. Now, I really do feel like I'm screaming in a crowded room...and no one really gives a fuck. - Corvida

Johnny, we're niche, but not invisible. I want to have conversations with people who have related interest. I don't want to talk about dogs, cats, what your kids did. Fuck that, I hate kids, dogs, and (usually) cats. I want good tech conversations 24/7. That's what the old days used to be like. That's the FriendFeed and Twitter I remember instead of all this marketing BS - Corvida

This thread remember me the reason why I've started following Robert Scoble or Corvida: not because they were famous or glamour or something like that but because they were able to create deep and brilliant conversations... - maxilprof

Hrm. I think I have to agree with Corvida here. I was attracted to this whole thing by learning about Twitter on her blog, which led me on a journey to becoming a writer for BlackWeb 2.0. Everything has definitely taken a marketing turn that is kinda disturbing. Even those in the field that are not really marketers still have a marketing approach to it all. Twitter, for instance, is mostly a link farm. I think this is part of the reason I got hooked on FF. People were actually discussing stuff here. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Patrik: yes, San Francisco is often two to five years ahead of the rest of the world. For fun I just checked into Feedly again. ALL I saw was stuff I've already seen on Twitter. So, for me (and anyone who cares about the tech industry) Google Reader is showing dramatically less utility than it did a year ago, especially if you've put any time into organizing feeds into lists over on Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Rahsheen: funny, I tried to get the rest of the industry over here and failed. Why? Most people don't want to have conversations. Tim O'Reilly, for instance, told me he doesn't have time for that. - Robert Scoble

I agree Rahsheen. The discussions is what got us going on FriendFeed. Too hard to do them on Twitter. How do we get back to those days people? - Corvida

But isn't all that discussion just speculation until you get a critical mass and some time behind it? I love what Facebook and Twitter have done for me, but feel a great deal of fatigue after only a couple of years. Talking to people IRL is very attractive these days. We've gotten ahead of ourselves. - John Kress

John: exactly. Plus, now that blogs have real time conversations thanks to Disqus and Echo we can pimp a URL and have conversations over there. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Yeah it seems that SF is ahead of the rest of the world. For now, I'll use Google Reader for my news source. But sure, if Swedish news, blogs, websites etc. started to use Twitter I may change my mind, - Patrik Johansson

I remember that, Robert. You used to link FF convo's on Twitter a lot. While you're probably correct that some of the big wigs don't have the time or desire to talk, there are still those of us that enjoy discussion. Am I going to notice that people like Tim aren't present? Absolutely not. Just like I don't expect P. Diddy to take the time out to chat with me when I want to discuss the music industry. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Rahsheen: funny, P Diddy is probably over at MySpace having conversations with his fans. I know a lot of musical groups do that. Why there? Because there's money there. Fans buy music. - Robert Scoble

Patrik: yeah, eventually you'll see that Twitter takes over the world. Even in France most of the entrepreneurs were on Twitter and the media was talking about it a lot. - Robert Scoble

Rahsheen: the reason I don't link to FF much anymore is because I can have real time conversations back on my blog now. A year ago I couldn't. - Robert Scoble

Robert: So when does the big backlash come, and what does it look like? (Online vs real life)? - John Kress

John: a good percentage of divorces are already mentioning Facebook. How do you know the backlash isn't underway? - Robert Scoble

Corvida, I don't think there is any turning back. Ashton, Oprah, Brittany, and all their minions have invaded the space. Eben Pagan, Mike Dillard, Steve Kern and the like have all discovered social media and are making money off of it. I think it's a lost cause in that regard... - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Corvida: those conversations have moved over to blogs like those from Louis Gray and Jesse Stay for the large part. - Robert Scoble

Hrm...I guess most bloggers should be happy about that. There was a time when comment fragmentation and losing the discussion was a serious concern. I wonder what everyone thinks about that now. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Robert: I think the backlash is underway. But, naturally, the whip has a long tail. - John Kress

Robert: Or a short head in this case. - John Kress

lol @John. Rahsheen we're happy, but that doesn't mean we didn't adjust to the way things have been for the past 2 years before Disqus and real-time web stuff. Twitter WAS the only real-time web, besides FriendFeed, last year. I like that they've moved back to blogs, but I don't talk about every tech topic that comes to mind on my blog. I like the random tech convo's across the web, where either you're there to participate in the convo or you're not. - Corvida

True, I can't say that I've caught most of the convo going on on blogs. I have definitely become used to the blogs being discussed on places other than the blog itself. Maybe I need to change my strategy...again. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Rahsheen: Exactly! Plus, I don't want to crowd my blog with too many discussions in one day. - Corvida

I'd settle for the days of acknowledging one another. - Kelli Schmith

I don't have conversations on Facebook and I am normal! (as I am not a professional, just a retired Granny) TBH I hate Facebook! Only on there because family asked me to be on there. I'd rather have a conversation on here or a live chat facility. Its better to discuss things on here or in comments on your blogs. I love blogging - Sandra Large

Robert: you are a couple of years ahead. But you also have a different behavior when it comes to news consumption: we are building feedly for people who have the time to check their favorite websites, topics, brands one or two times a day and want to do it through something that looks like their own personalized magazine. Regarding this discussion I agree that the internet has lost a little bit of something since most people moved to twitter and the conversations on friendfeed dried up. - Edwin Khodabakchian

#scobleapprovedconversation - Jeremy (on vacation)

There's too much choice for online conversation now. - George Hall (Australia)

Edwin Khodabakchian

first proto of feedly 3.0: same code runs in memory in firefox and cross process in chrome. It was a major pain but the result is beautiful.

December 24 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Edwin, have you guys looked at what Kynetx is doing? With their platform you should be able to write once, and they produce extensions for 3 browsers (and soon others). Might be a better development environment for you. http://kynetx.com - Jesse Stay

Hi Jesse. Thanks for the heads up. I looked at Kynetx after seeing a video about them on Scobleizer. What they do around website augmentation is interesting. What we do is a little different in the sense that we mashup a lot of different services to build the feedly app, which result in lots of Javascript code which we need to break down into pieces and load/execute as efficiently as... more... - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin, be sure to chat with Phil Windley (@windley on Twitter and FriendFeed) about your use-case. I'm sure they'd love to hear and discuss it with you. It's your type of business that they're targeting so I'm sure they'd love to make it an ideal experience for your environment. Let me know if I can make an introduction. I really like their technology. - Jesse Stay

Kol Tregaskes to Kol's feed, Google Reader

I have another confession: I still cannot get out of the habit of using Google Reader over feedly, even though feedly has been available in Chrome for several weeks.

November 24 - Comment - Like - Share

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I just find GReader quicker due to th way I've set up folders in it. - Kol Tregaskes

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I only read parts of my feeds/folders now (as I just don't have the time to read all of it) and find GReader itself much easier to navigate around. - Kol Tregaskes

Someone entice me to use feedly over GReader. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

not gonna be me ;) - Kim

Hehe, Kim. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Ain't gonna be me either. The folders in GR help greatly because the content of some folders can be skimmed in list view since several feeds have duplicates in them. I tried feedly but soon turned back to GR. - Polly Potter

What I really like about feedly is that I feel a lot less "unread guilt". The item count is in an easily-ignorable light grey, and a single click marks everything read. - invariant - farewell FF

@kol: a lot of existing Google Reader users prefer the GR UI because of the ability to scan articles, feeds and folders quickly. A few leverage the live sync and use both (scan the digest and finish the heavy reading in Google Reader). Others are looking for a slower, more fun experience and prefer the feedly magazine-like UI. People who are new to RSS are often in that third category and those are the people we are going after. - Edwin Khodabakchian

I prefer GR over feedly more now too....Feedly was killing Firefox for me - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Jesse Stay

And you thought FriendFeed was doing bad - check out Google Reader:

Screen shot 2009-12-16 at 11.25.42 AM.png

December 16 - Comment - Like - Share

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Regarding FriendFeed's numbers, be sure to see here: http://staynalive.com/article... - Jesse Stay

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I forget to use Google Reader. I prefer FF - Mike Nencetti

Also see: http://friendfeed.com/jessest... - Jesse Stay

Isn't that because the URL most people use for Google Reader is http://www.google.com/reader ? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken is right. I always use http://www.google.com/reader. You can also get feeds on http://www.google.com/ig/ Jesse, it's time for you to retire from stats mayhem. - Louis Gray

Remember, 65.4% of all stats are made up on the spot. - Ken Sheppardson

i use google.com/reader too - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)

Web 1.0 is to Web 2.0 as Alexa is to Compete. - AJ Kohn

There will also be users coming from other countries like us here (google.ca/reader). - AJ Batac

Louis, I'm simply sharing the same type of stats you did with FriendFeed. Who shall retire first? - Jesse Stay

Louis shared stats for FriendFeed using the wrong URL? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, http://reader.google.com is how I access Google Reader - Jesse Stay

See how it redirects to www.google.com/reader? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, my point is Louis's stats mean as much as mine do - there are way more factors that go into this, I agree - Jesse Stay

Jesse, without demeaning you personally, this is false and ridiculous. FriendFeed is a domain, a specific one, and I chose the primary domain. Google Reader is a subdomain or directory, and you chose the one that, as you show, nobody uses. The Alexa data you showed for FriendFeed illustrated something that nobody is experiencing. This isn't gamesmanship. It's just wrong, again. - Louis Gray

I have a hard time understanding the fights and points Jesse chooses to get into.....just baffling. - Matthew DeVries

So let's take this constructively - what's a better way of comparing the two if http://reader.google.com is a bad way? - Jesse Stay

Neither.... it's apples and oranges. - Jason Williams

Jason - considering some use FriendFeed as a replacement for Google Reader it's not apples and oranges - they're competition. - Jesse Stay

Really? Why on earth would anyone use FF over Reader? FF complements Reader but shouldn't supplant it. Is there really a constructive way to read rss feeds here? - Jason Williams

Jason, many people do that - it always comes out when Scoble is threatening to leave Reader. It's also why your FriendFeed stats now show up with your Feedburner stats. - Jesse Stay

looks like we gotta get louis to work more hours to get that chart moving in the right direction! - Allen Stern

Amen Allen (that's the spirit)! I'd love to see more stability and more focus on core functionality, not the social features. More stats, more organizational tools, more sharing tools. Better UI. Less bugs. I would use it more if that were the case. - Jesse Stay

Give me a better way to manage thousands of items a day and I'll read thousands of items a day. For now I've had to reduce my use due to how bulky and hard-to-manage it all is. - Jesse Stay

for the record i rarely to never use google reader. - Allen Stern

when friendfeed shows me full content RSS feeds instead of just title links, let me know. until then, I'll keep using Google Reader. that's the same notion that twitter is a replacement for it. I get it but it doesn't work for me. - Bill Kinney

Jesse knows that I read more than 1,000 items per day and am connected to more than 1,000 people via shared item feeds. The graph above is not valid. Google Reader is a great complement to FriendFeed, and always has been. It's the vast majority of my feed. Reader is also, very flexibly, able to share to different sites, including Twitter and Facebook. - Louis Gray

Yes, Bill. Jesse is just grumpy today. :) He knows better than to post data without any substance and try and get a faux argument going. He also is tempting me to post a SocialToo traffic chart and compare it to Twitter. :) - Louis Gray

i think that louis and jesse need a "time out" - both of you to your respective corners for a juice box - Allen Stern

No way, Allen! Not when there are great injustices in this world! :) - Louis Gray

louis i just sat through 4 hrs of city council hearings at city hall - not once did google reader or friendfeed come up :) - Allen Stern

Jesse, the difference is that Readers traffic isn't dependent on who else is also using it. As much as Google would like it to be, it's not a social tool. I can get my FF feed in Reader but not vice versa. Do you really get your "news" from FF? It's the same thing with Twitter. People try to make it a RSS replacement but it isn't no matter how much you want it to be. 140 characters might be ok for links and quick social commentary but in depth news, not so much. - Jason Williams

Allen, but they did mention a series of tubes, at least in passing I'm sure :) - Micah Wittman

*thinks of how to talk Jesse down from the ledge...* Jesse, Hi :) At best you are criticizing conventional wisdom web statistics in general and mixing it with a clearly flawed swipe at Reader. ### Now, carefully, come back from the precipice and live to fight another day. - Micah Wittman

You guys are all proving my point - that this argument is just as crazy a claim as this one is here: http://friendfeed.com/louisgr... - you can't trust stats - Jesse Stay

I use Feedly, which is off the back of Google Reader - Ian May

Jesse, nobody has proven your point. The only point that has been made is that you made a mistake and tried to draw a parallel, and you failed. - Louis Gray

Of course you can trust stats, Jesse. You just have to understand how they were collected, what they mean, and not try to use them to support some completely unrelated hypothesis. I've seen two graphs of US and global FriendFeed visitor stats that support two different statements... that US usage is down and global usage is up, respectively. The graph you've created for reader.google.com is irrelevant and immaterial, for reasons given above. - Ken Sheppardson

I could be wrong, but a certain someone who pronounced FF as dead cited that new features in GR were going to kill it. Just sayin'. Also just sayin' - I'm with Louis on this one. The combination of Google Reader and Friendfeed have changed the game for me, bigtime. - jcunwired

Surely not. - Will Higgins™

I'm probably in the minority but I have replaced Google Reader with FriendFeed. Pretty much for discussions like this one. I'm not sure I find the same value in Reader, I tend to bookmark and re-visit the same sites anyway. FriendFeed brings something to the table that a bookmark just doesn't. Reader, not so much. At least not for me. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

We need a UFC match between Louis Gray and Jesse Stay. The 9-lettered names of mayhem! - beersage

I'd like to append my last post with, I still scan GR, so the previous comments about using GR and FF together as a powerful combination--in practice, if not in heart--I'm in agreement with. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

See what happens when I stayed in GReader (and some Twitter) all day, I missed a good thread. I read/skim a little over 1,000 posts a day, I'm not sure if I read more than Louis (42,597 items in last 30 days) but it's my information center. Friendfeed use to be my place for discussions around the news, since engagement has dropped here (for me at least), I've moved back to Twitter for a fraction of that engagement (FB for friends/coworkers/family). - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I never knew there was a reader.google.com - Richard Lawler

Almost all of Google's (non-acquired) properties can do both whatever.google.com and google.com/whatever which is very smart actually. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

On the subject, I must thank Louis, Jesse and many others that act as filters on GReader BTW. When I don't have time to go through the bulk, these guys help bring the cream to the top. I try to do my part in filtering for others but I feel that it's a team effort to bring the signal to others as automated filters aren't smart enough (yet). - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Funny, I cut back on my usage of both services and the graph goes down. You can blame Scoble now. I don't use Google Reader anymore. - Robert Scoble

Don't talk about yourself in the third person. - Mark

I blame Scoble for the drop in the Twitter chart as well then. <smirk> - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

My use has gone down significantly and I'm seriously looking for the perfect solution to replace it. Hoping Seesmic or Tweetie or Tweetdeck do that soon. See: http://staynalive.com/article... - Jesse Stay

I now know Louis's Kryptonite - criticize Google Reader ;-) - Jesse Stay

Robert, please don't leave Gmail, because I still need that. Thanks. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

Jesse - I agree with your April blog post 100%. I also want to mention that Google Alerts is also a helpful tool for monitoring blog posts. (And without a doubt, most of us use it.) - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

Jesse, kryptonite would weaken someone if it were their personal poison. I am not weakened by your inaccuracies and stubbornness. :) - Louis Gray

Anyone know what Feedly's numbers are?? - Roberto Bonini

it is still my best organic conversational real time tool... - Yann Ropars

Feedly is actually down 11% in Nov as well. http://siteanalytics.compete.com/feedly... - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Is this a trend?? The holiday season and all?? What about Feedburner stats?? If RSS usage (i.e for RSS clients) is in decline (unlikely) it would show up there. - Roberto Bonini

manieles: feedly's content is generated dynamically in the browser so the metrics you are pointing to are just metrics of our blog (most users download feedly from the mozilla (and now chrome) sites. 2009 was a good year for feedly: we grew 1,527% from Dec 08 until Dec 09. http://twitter.com/edwk... - Edwin Khodabakchian

Ah, I guess that makes my comment above moot. There goes that theory. - Roberto Bonini

Sorry Edwin, just like reader.google.com the compete numbers don't show the story of true use. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

No problem Mark (it happens a lot). Roberto: Feedly is still relatively a niche service compared to Friendfeed and Google Reader so your theory could be correct. I do not have visibility into the Google Reader usage information but I can say that the underlying infrastructure keeps on getting better and innovating at a very fast pace. They have the foundation for a distributed... more... - Edwin Khodabakchian

Sounds like what I said about FriendFeed :-) - Jesse Stay

Jesse: Friendfeed is down but they are not dead. It all depends on if Facebook will decide to invest and move the service forward or not. If they do not, at some point Twitter and Facebook will have a super set of the friendfeed features and at that point their will be no turn around possible. Friendfeed sold out too early. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin, Jesse is having an off day. Feedly is doing fantastically. Google Reader continues to have the #1 position in RSS and things are flourishing with their social features. FriendFeed has great technology and a fantastic community, but stalled momentum. Jesse should be in better form in about 5-7 days. - Louis Gray

Jesse are you sick *again*? I told you to eat more bacon! :-) - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Would be interesting to see a metric that measures total number of posts having comments and likes versus total posts and compare that to the "glory days" of Friendfeed. How much different is the engagement now? - Steve

Louis is basing his "FriendFeed is down" on faulty stats - that's the point of this thread. FriendFeed's just fine: http://staynalive.com/article... - I agree Reader and RSS are fine. So is FriendFeed. - Jesse Stay

Steve, you can always use FriendFeed's advanced search to find 100 comments and likes posts. - Louis Gray

Jesse, discussing this with you is getting boring. That post was wrong and based on data even worse than the public information I used. - Louis Gray

Nothing on the Internet is dead until the servers are unplugged and the information is not cached elsewhere. There could be 1 unique user on a site and it still could be very useful for that one person. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Mark, that's correct. I covered that when I said I would still find value if I were the last FriendFeeder. What's frustrating about this nonsense of a thread is that Jesse made a mistake with his graph and continues to stand by it. - Louis Gray

As did Louis (I'm not standing by this graph - I was making a point), and he continues to stand by his (about FriendFeed traffic being down) - Jesse Stay

Because it is down. - Louis Gray

Louis, if you think my post is wrong, how about a post proving my points wrong - Jesse Stay

:-) - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

It is a waste of time. It also does not benefit me or the community to make high visibility of negativity around this site. That's why I posted what I did here previously, also knowing it tends to be written about and spun by other blogs. - Louis Gray

I don't think Louis believes his graph is wrong - who's the stubborn one? ;-) - Jesse Stay

Congratulates Jesse and his graph for making my best of day on FF. I am not a fan of Google reader. the graph looks accurate to me and the feedback I see of GR. - Mike Nencetti

Jesse: I am confused. It seems that the point you are trying to make is that graphs are wrong in general and that both friendfeed and RSS are fine. Is that correct? - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin, correct - Jesse Stay

Jesse, I believe that Compete.com data is not perfect, but it is the best publicly available data that we have. I also believe that the trends it portrays about this specific site are 100% accurate. Your data showing Google Reader at zero is laughable and an embarrassment to your reputation. - Louis Gray

Mike, this didn't make "best of day". It made "most obtuse of the day". :) - Louis Gray

Jesse: which metric would you use to determine if friendfeed as a service is up or down? - Edwin Khodabakchian

It is not showing it at 0 - it is showing it at very low. - Jesse Stay

Edwin: http://staynalive.com/article... - Jesse Stay

Google Reader's traffic is hidden within www.google.com's data. Dare I add iGoogle for RSS feeds into that picture as well. However, Friendfeed's traffic is not hidden (for US Traffic) in Compete's numbers. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Jesse relied on Alexa data (which is the ugly stepsister of Compete.com), and he suggested that Bret Taylor's graph showing a higher percentage of international users suggested growth, when, more accurately, it portrayed that US visitors fell away at a dramatic rate. - Louis Gray

Louis: May be you and Jesse are looking at this from different angle and are both right - Edwin Khodabakchian

Nah. Edwin, I will always support good data. :) This is bad data. - Louis Gray

Quantcast shows a similar decline. Every service that is respected shows a decline. http://www.quantcast.com/friendf... - Louis Gray

Louis, I never denied yours was based on US data. My point was FriendFeed was not down, which you claimed it to be. - Jesse Stay

May be Friendfeed has a lot more persian users which are less active but nevertheless users. But over all Friendfeed has a lot less momentum and engagement because the early adopters have moved to twitter - Edwin Khodabakchian

Jesse, I continue to claim that global traffic worldwide, including US and non-US traffic is down, period. And even if you were right, turning this into Orkut or Friendster is not a thing to be proud of. - Louis Gray

Jess: the problem is that down is not as important as momemtum and innovation. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Louis, again, you're showing the wrong state re: Quantcast - click the "all" link and you'll see something more reflective. They're down in the short-term (at least in the US), but not in the long-term. - Jesse Stay

There' nothing wrong with Alexa from a world view. Just don't mix numbers between Compete, Quantcast and Alexa. Compete clearly shows the US usage has dropped. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Louis, I never turned this into a comparison of Orkut and Friendster - where is this coming from? - Jesse Stay

Jesse, the short term is the start of the long term. You know better than this. - Louis Gray

I am. Those are sites dominated by non-US visitors, contrasted with Facebook and Twitter. - Louis Gray

Louis, I disagree the short-term is the start of the long term - Jesse Stay

Jesse: One simpler question for you: do you think that there is a chance for friendfeed to regain momentum and flourish without an engineering team behind it? - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin, absolutely, but I think there will be an engineering team behind it eventually - Jesse Stay

and there is an engineering team behind it currently, or it would not be able to handle the current traffic. - Jesse Stay

Hmm. Do you have another example to point us to? Where will the engineering come from eventually? - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin, Facebook - Jesse Stay

Friendfeed is clearly transforming. It may gain momentum for a while until 'other services' catch up. However once a better wheel is made... - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I think that you are fooling yourself - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin, absolutely not - there are numbers to prove it - whether it's still FriendFeed or transforms into Facebook, it will still be around, and serving way more than it is now. - Jesse Stay

Facebook wanted the brainpower and that brainpower is not integrated into other facebook projects - Edwin Khodabakchian

That brainpower is still keeping FriendFeed running at the same time - Jesse Stay

Here again. I think that you are fooling yourself - Edwin Khodabakchian

That brainpower still believes in FriendFeed - Jesse Stay

Jesse, I would listen to Edwin, and Matthew Davies, and almost everyone else in this thread. - Louis Gray

Facebook is in a hyper competitive space, those brains are working 150% on facebook projects - Edwin Khodabakchian

You can clearly see that the FF team is porting features into FB, they are attempting to have a friend of a friend system similar to FF. IF THEY SUCCEED, FB has become Friendfeed. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Jesse, Bret is VP of Products at Facebook and working on Connect and the dev community which reaches 100x+ more people than FriendFeed does. - Louis Gray

Louis I didn't say FriendFeed wouldn't transform into Facebook. I did say it wasn't going away and it would continue growing. - Jesse Stay

But it is not growing, and that entire argument is dead right there. - Louis Gray

It is growing, your argument is dead. - Jesse Stay

I think that you are right that it is going to stay (that is a low hanging fruit) and it might grow in some geographies (like it does in Iran because of the network effect) and because it was ahead of its time in terms of conversation, the erosion will take longer but there is no doubt that with no engineering, it is a dead end. - Edwin Khodabakchian

AOL is not growing but it's hardly dead. Wait, I'm on Louis's side on this... - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

AOL is investing massively to survive - Edwin Khodabakchian

AOL is apples and oranges - if Facebook stops growing you can start comparing it to AOL. - Jesse Stay

Mark, that's fine. I don't think there are sides. There's what's correct, and whatever Jesse is doing. - Louis Gray

Or whatever Louis is doing - he seems to think he's correct, which he's not (now this is getting repetitive) - Jesse Stay

Too bad the friendfeed team did not believe in friendfeed the same way Jess believes in Friendfeed! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin, the FriendFeed team saw what we all see and sold at the right time for a fantastic opportunity. - Louis Gray

I will agree to disagree with Louis - that's about the only way I'm backing down on this. I believe passionately in FriendFeed, and I see no reason it's dying. - Jesse Stay

Edwin look at how much the FriendFeed team uses FriendFeed - they still believe passionately in the service. They believe so as much as I do. - Jesse Stay

(and I never said it was dying, nor did I say I don't believe in what was built here) Go find me saying that anywhere. - Louis Gray

Jesse: would you have sold to friendfeed? - Edwin Khodabakchian

I don't get what you are saying Louis - what is your argument? - Jesse Stay

Start from the top. (And read your DMs). The graph you show here has zero validity and it is in no way relevant to the graph you are discussing from last week, period. - Louis Gray

All I know is that public statistics lie. Paul B knows the real answer for FF, as does Jeff Huber for GReader stats. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Okay, so your argument is that FriendFeed is declining - isn't that the same as dying? - Jesse Stay

If you get the flu, do you always die, Jesse? - Louis Gray

If you lose 20 pounds, is it guaranteed that you will eventually hit zero? - Louis Gray

Louis, okay, whatever - I see no reason it's declining - Jesse Stay

Then you are being naive and ignoring all the public data, plus anecdotal data from this site itself. - Louis Gray

The FF sale is more than a flu, it's a handicap scenario. It makes it harder to see a perfect future. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Louis: I am not sure that facebook was/is a fantastic opportunity for the friendfeed team. Facebook connect is awesome but this space is still at its infancy and I am not sure that the centralized facebook/twitter model will be the model of the future. Friendfeed had the advantage of understanding search really well and being distributed at its core - great asset! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Louis, not naive at all - I shared the public data publicly on my blog, showing backed evidence the site is still growing. Where's your rebuttal? Do I have to show this again?: http://staynalive.com/article... - Jesse Stay

Using your links in your article, Jesse, Quantcast topped out in August and has fallen significantly since. And we already noted that the Alexa data, which is the outlier, shows a small upward trend. - Louis Gray

Louis, your argument is it's falling short-term. My argument is that it's growing long-term. My data supports that. I'm definitely not naive and frankly I'm beginning to be offended you're calling me that. - Jesse Stay

OK. Good discussion. I think that Louis and Jess should go get a beer and huge each other. Time to go write some code! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Yes, if you put the calendar back far enough, the trajectory is upward. Of course it is. And Edwin, I can't get Jesse to drink beer. - Louis Gray

Great, then we agree - Jesse Stay

I agree that if you go over a 2 year calendar, traffic to FriendFeed has increased. - Louis Gray

I guess I missed something... I've seen (1) Quantcast and Compete charts of US reach/visitors which says domestic use is down (2) an Alexa chart that says international use is up (3) a comment and accompanying chart from Bret saying "international growth has started to completely dominate since August (4) a pretty significant shift in the FFholic Most Active user list to international users, and (5) lots of anecdotal evidence from English-speaking users saying they've seen reduced (or stable) activity. - Ken Sheppardson

...is somebody taking exception to any of those observations? - Ken Sheppardson

Nope. Agreed, Ken. - Louis Gray

But the entire thread originated with the Google Reader flat line, which was a mistake. - Louis Gray

Yeah, I think everybody's just trying to ignore that at this point ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I just don't get why Jesse's trying to make this you-can't-believe-stats/charts argument. I think there's something in my list of 5 point that Jesse thinks is wrong. - Ken Sheppardson

Jesse doesn't believe the Compete or Quantcast data showing a decline. - Louis Gray

I don't think I ever agreed the above graph was correct - it was put there to show a point - Jesse Stay

So you believe US usage is up, or not declining, Jesse? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, I didn't mean you can't believe them - I mean they can often be deceptive - Jesse Stay

Which is amusing, because the blue line here is identical to the same blue line I posted last week. - Louis Gray

My head hurts. - Ken Sheppardson

I thought I'd post it up against the same deceptive result so we were on the same terms - Jesse Stay

Jesse - Next time use a red line .... :) - Charlie Anzman

Sigh. I could also show a graph that over the last 120 years, GM sales are way up, and compare that to the sale of unicycles. - Louis Gray

Just laughed out loud at that one Louis - Hutch Carpenter

Damn, you mean Unicycles sales are up right now? Tomorrow is free shipping day.... :-) - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Are you saying Google Reader is like a Unicycle? - Jesse Stay

Nope. - Louis Gray

So Google Reader is going to be like GM? - Jesse Stay

Ah... sorry... a light bulb just went off... showing a chart that shows US traffic is declining is deceptive in that some people who look at it might conclude that's overall activity, when in fact total, world-wide activity is steady or increasing. - Ken Sheppardson

That's one of Jesse's theories, Ken. (Still doesn't explain the Google Reader non-sequitir) - Louis Gray

If Google Reader is like a Unicycle, it's like the Honda's U3-X..... a very cool one! - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I'm starting to piece this together... so showing reader.google.com traffic is declining when in fact total Reader traffic is up... ? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, correct - Jesse Stay

reader.google.com is a domain nobody uses. Reader traffic is unknown, but certainly not the flat line displayed here. - Louis Gray

Louis, I use reader.google.com - Jesse Stay

I'd agree with that theory. The World growth is outpacing US internet growth. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I just took a look at the graph at http://www.alexa.com/siteinf... Turns out that although international reach is up as shown in your graph, Jesse, Alexa shows a 20% or so decrease in their pageview graph since the peak near August. More users spending less time... - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, that is short-term though, which was another point of mine. Long-term they still have an upward trend. It is still much too early to determine if they are declining yet. Maybe in 6 months you guys can all show me I'm wrong. - Jesse Stay

Facebook bought FF in Aug, that throws a trendline in completely different direction. It's an inflection point. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Mark, FF took a dip after that, but they recovered and went even higher than before the FF acquisition. I wouldn't call that an inflection point. - Jesse Stay

Which chart shows traffic higher than before the acquisition (not counting the spike after due to curious people who never heard of FF before they read it)? Are you looking at Alexa's "Reach"? - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Yes, Mark... Alexa's chart of international reach shows that the % of worldwide internet users who are visiting FriendFeed is up. It's also the 47th most popular site in Turkey, 227th in Italy, and 412th in Pakistan. :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Mark, correct, which is more accurate because it compares visitors globally, not just US - Jesse Stay

In fact Alexa says 20.7% users are from the US and 20.6% are from Turkey, and another 20% or so from Italy, Japan, and India combined. - Ken Sheppardson

Right but the question would be what were those percentages between countries back in August? A shift in demographics needs to be adjusted by online population in those countries. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

There's roughly 74M people in Turkey. For every 1% drop in US visits, about 4% would automatically gain for Turkey in the Pie Chart without a single new user in growth. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I don't believe they're breaking out the % of users in each country that are visiting FriendFeed, they're talking about what % of FriendFeed users are coming from each country. - Ken Sheppardson

Ken is correct. - Louis Gray

Strongly Disagree. Look at my coupon work site: RedPlum.com 92.2% are from the US. I highly doubt I have that much audience but I'd love for it to be true. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Disagree with what, Mark? That stat means for every 100 people who visit your site, 92 are from the US. - Ken Sheppardson

Sorry, I misunderstood your comment. It's a pie of % of FF visitors are coming from which country. We are on same page. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Yeah, sorry... I switched from "reach" to the user breakdown midstream there. - Ken Sheppardson

So as I was saying, a 1% drop in US visits moves Turkey up 4% when you factor populations and no new additions. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

To tie that together with Compete's US view, the US audience dropped 20% in last 90 days so Turkey would naturally rise in the pie chart regardless of new user growth from that country. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Actually digging that information a bit more, only 21.1% of the Turkey population uses the internet so the spread would widen even further. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

wow - ★ Soner Gönül

Interesting...... - Keith Griffiths

What a ridiculous discussion! It has already been said: the stats are apples and oranges. Let's look at the comparative numbers for internet users who are brain-dead versus those who can type. It would appear graduation from grade school bans internet access. - Douglas Hopkins

Facebook hurts ! - Desirade

Yeah, don't bother. Senestezi is spamming. - Ken Sheppardson

Jesse Stay

Google Reader is seriously broken - it shares other items when I click share on one item. It shows other people's avatar instead of mine. Scoble's argument of switching entirely to Twitter or FriendFeed is beginning to be more convincing to me now. It's been this way for months now and no changes!

Screen shot 2009-12-16 at 11.04.44 AM.png

December 16 - Comment - Like - Share

Susan Beebe, Liviu Barbat, Tapio Kulmala and 9 other people liked this

It works with no issues for me. - AJ Batac

24 more comments

You don't use Feedly? - Kenton

I would suggest this is user error. I share much higher volume than do you and this never happens. - Louis Gray

We've seen sporadic reports of this, but have never been able to reproduce the problem. What browser do you see this with? - Mihai Parparita

feedly! - SK is in fucking love.

when I click on "all items", this error message appears: You don't have permission to view this feed!!! - Zahra HB

And let me guess .. support hasn't been very helpful or responsive!! - Chris Myles

Chris, look above. You can see a near-immediate response from Mihai Parparita, who works at Google Reader. That looks helpful and responsive to me. Kudos. - Louis Gray

Louis: +1 Mihai, Jenna and the rest of the Google Reader team are amazingly responsive! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Hmm They may be here but I've had multiple requests (15) into their OFFICIAL HELP GROUP for over a year.. No response or feedback. I guess I must be in the wrong place!! - Chris Myles

Works fine for me. I've never seen this happen. - Otto

Louis, how in the world could this be user error? I hit shift-D on one article, and another article pops up. Am I doing it wrong? In addition, my avatar is someone else's. I can show screenshots of that as well if I need to. And no - feedly is not the answer - that proves that Google Reader is broken. - Jesse Stay

Try deleting your cache and google cookies. Then close/re-start your browser and re-login. Might fix it. - AJ Batac

Jesse. If you add a note and share, do you know if the article is shared correctly as you? Or do you get a share error or no error but the article does not get shared? Is it always the avatar of the same other person or do you get a random set? - Edwin Khodabakchian

I've never come across that issue with Reader but it wouldn't surprise me. I have had problems with feeds not updating like they should. Feedly is great IMO only if you have less than 100 feeds. Any more than that and the organization becomes disorganized, if that makes sense. - Jason Williams

Edwin, the avatar seems to change randomly - it will be one for awhile, and then it will change. Shares always get shared as me, but will be shared as the wrong article (I've only reproduced this with notes). I've mentioned this before but no one responded. Is there an equivalent to the FriendFeed Feedback room for Google Reader? - Jesse Stay

I see. So there are really two problems: a more cosmetic showing the wrong avatar and a more problematic poping up the wrong article. Are you able to consistently reproduce it? - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin, my initial description talks about both - Jesse Stay

Edwin, yes, it's consistent - Jesse Stay

Jesse: since we suspect the share-with-note issue is browser-specific, we still need to know what browser you're seeing this with. As for the wrong avatar showing up, we've seen this happen when your contacts (accessible at google.com/contacts) have multiple conflicting email addresses (e.g. yours shows up in another contact's, or vice-versa). - Mihai Parparita

Mihai, thanks - this is the first time I've seen the Google Reader team respond to an issue I've had like this. I'll test it in other browsers and get back to you on what browsers are affected. - Jesse Stay

Mihai, also, regarding the avatar issue and contacts, wouldn't that be a bug? I hope it's not a feature. I should be able to say "this is my avatar" and have that stick. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, what browser are you seeing this in right now? You haven't answered that question. - Louis Gray

Google's own browser, Chrome - Jesse Stay from email

Have you tried my suggestion? - AJ Batac

Bump. Jesse, were you able to replicate this on any other browsers? - Louis Gray

Michael Hocter

How many Chrome extensions do you have installed so far?

December 9 - Comment - Like - Share

Morgan Haley and JA Castillo liked this

I only have 5 so far: Feedly, Google Mail Checker, Send From Gmail, Bit.ly, RSS Subscription Extension. - Michael Hocter

19 more comments

33 so far - Eric Logan

There's extensions? - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

I'm on a Mac so: 0. - Akiva Moskovitz

Brizzly, GMail Checker & bit.ly...I already have a bookmarklet for Send From Gmail - JA Castillo

I uninstalled Brizzly because, while it was pretty and all, it was just too slow and not that useful. I'll just use the Brizzly website instead. - Michael Hocter

The Send From Gmail extenstion does more than the bookmarklet. Now all email links default to using Gmail :) - Michael Hocter

Feedly, Shareaholic, and Fittr Flickr so far - Kenton

Just 4. I would also have Feedly, but it keeps uninstalling itself. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

none. but Chrome is starting to bug me (it sucks opening stuff linked in hotmail and other java thingees), so maybe it's time i installed some add ons? i dunno. i don't like IE or Firefox, so what should I do? - Morgan Haley

Five Lastpass, Delicious, Sticky tabs, Gmail Checker and Adblock. Akiva I'm on the mac also ... Chromium + a little something I read about in MG's little post on TC http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Rasmus Lauridsen

Five, but I only actually use feedly and just started using DChrome. I installed Web Developer Mini, but find it pretty useless. I also have the bit.ly shortener installed but haven't used it at all and have Twitter EXT installed, but don't even know how to use it. - Curtiss Grymala

14 - Shey, Jamaican of FF

4 - .LAG liked that

I'm using AdThwart. I hate web ads. - Rudy Amid

3 but I am waiting for Google to re-enable extensions on Mac - Edwin Khodabakchian

0 - Brian Sullivan

0 - Itachi

3 - Beau Liening

0 - Amber, Random Time Lord

5 - Jeremy (on vacation)

Kevin Gamble

I have found that I am using Chrome almost exclusively. Blame Wave. I do miss the FF add-ons though. Ohhh, what I would give for Feedly and Zemanta in Chrome.

November 8 - Comment - Like - Share

Harold, Alex Scoble and jerobins liked this

chrome is the awesomesauce, i love the 'add a tab' feature that shows a snapshot of your faves...this was the main reason i kept hanging onto opera. - heart and soul royce

3 more comments

I've recently done the same. I miss some add-ons, but am willing to wait for them to be implemented in full. - Stephen Judd from twhirl

So have you loaded the Feedly and Zemanta extensions now that they're available? - Stephen Judd

Thanks for Stephen. Here is indeed now a version of feedly for Chrome. See https://chrome.google.com/extensi... for more information - Edwin Khodabakchian

I'm using Chrome on my netbook rather than the mac. Like to be mobile :-) - Richard A.

Maitani

@koltregaskes What do you think is better for sharing, comments, communication, GReader or feedly?

November 24 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Alex Scrivener and Kol Tregaskes liked this

Depends on the UI frankly. - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

I agree with Roberto: If you want a productivity tool then Google Reader UI is a better solution, if you want a magazine-like experience then feedly is probably a better solution. Both as built on the same Google Reader Back End/Platform allowing users to mix and match. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Thanks for your comments! So I can be content with GReader. - Nevertheless I will have a look at feedly! - Maitani

Eric Logan to Eric's feed, All Things Google

Feedly « Google Chrome Extensions - http://www.chromeextensions.org/social-...

November 25 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Alessandro, └►Serkan Bektaş, نعیمی Naimi and 3 other people liked this

A magazine-like startpage. A fast and stylish way to read and share the content of your favorite sites and services. Provides seamless integration with Google Reader, Twitter, Delicious, YouTube and Amazon. - Eric Logan from Bookmarklet

5 more comments

yup. Best extension ever made - first on Firefox then Chrome. I can't read feeds without it! #smllove - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

One of my favorites also. There are a lot of new extensions that have been added since the last time I had checked just a few days ago. - Eric Logan

Only think that would make it better is if when sharing to FriendFeed, it could include pictures instead of just the link. Then it would be PERFECT. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Edwin usually makes an appearance whenever feedly is mentioned maybe he will notice the feature request :) - Eric Logan

That's one of my favorite things about Feedly, Eric. :) Edwin is one of the most responsive developers I've seen; makes me doubly happy to support and promote Feedly. I mentioned a few weeks ago the only thing keeping me from switching to Chrome was the lack of Feedly, and he showed up and gave me access to the extension just before public release. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Hi! Thanks for the feedback (and the kind words). Will add "better image capture while sharing" to the roadmap for the feedly 3 release. Happy Thanksgiving. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Adam

Feedly Comes to Google Chrome - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...

November 24 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

So cool! - Adam

Thanks adam! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Louis Gray

Why I don't use Google Reader anymore - http://scobleizer.posterous.com/why-i-d...

October 29 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Mycaptain, Iván Abrego, sofarsoShawn and 12 other people liked this

Awesome "no one loves you" defense from Scoble :P ""But my Google Reader account is super fast," I can hear you saying. Yeah, but you don't have any friends and you don't have many things you are subscribed to." - Daniel J. Pritchett

23 more comments

Nice Louis! "Why I don't use Google Reader anymore - http://scobleizer.posterous.com/why-i-d... 3 hours ago from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share - Hide" - metalerik

so, how do you (everyone) feel about google reader? - chaz2b

I love Google Reader. Everybody knows that. :) - Louis Gray

Feedly running on top of Google Reader is hard to beat, for me... - Andrew Terry

I use reader about once a day now. The "magic" view is pretty sweet. - Daniel J. Pritchett

I use it a little but it is butt ugly. - ChiliMac

Everyone uses the tool they like, GReader is clearly my information source and hub. I will skim anything I haven't filtered with my Greasemonkey script. FriendFeed is my second hub with deep interactive conversations, Facebook is mostly a little more personal interaction, Twitter is mostly quick interactions (maybe two replies) with one person. So Twitter is my lowest ranking tool out... more... - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Can't really live without GReader. Since the GReader upgrades, I have put Feedly on the shelf. It's really the best way for me to follow activity on LinkedIn and all the Ning groups I belong to, as well as the usual stuff you use RSS for. - Bryan R. Adams

I don't like Greader ui but i'm still using it with Feedly. Feedly is just awesome for reading, discovering and share rss feeds. Twitter+feedly is a good combination. - David Foucher from Nambu

I look at reader before I look at my email.... Is that bad? :) (disclaimer, I work on it) - Jenna Bilotta

I still do e-mail first, Reader second, only because Reader is much more fun, and I would probably stay there. - Louis Gray

I would miss so much stuff if I didn't use Google Reader. I get so much less noise there. - Jesse Stay

I've seen this meme in a few places and I guess I don't fit the base use case as I tend to sleep from time to time and can't always be on Twitter. - Dave Hodson

All these things are such moving targets. So what is the favored anti-virus software now? - Dawn

Dawn, SocialToo ;-) - Jesse Stay

I could live without Twitter...but GR with Feedly I use every day without fail. - Bonnie Foster

Am I unique then? I read all my RSS feeds in my email program on my desktop and read them after I have read my email. - Sandra Large

Scoble has an assumption that everything of interest is inside the twitterverse. My experience is that the RSSVerse is much more pervasive. To Balance the Signal to Noise Ratio use Yahoo Pipes/GReader/Feedly to munge the data to begin with. In my case I can find many topics that have not posted to twitter - Robert Higgins

Robert: neither of us can prove that point. I am following almost 11,000 things now in Twitter. You want to try that in Google Reader? Go ahead. - Robert Scoble

Didn't Congressman Grayson call Scoble an "S Valley Whore"? I think he should apologize. - Dawn

i hate politicians etc so yeah he need to apoligize - ffcode

Robert: (I am obviously biased here). it is great that you are following 11,000 things in Twitter and that makes you special and I think that some of the issues you are raising are valid. Where I think your argument breaks down is where you think that soon a lot of people will follow thousand of things in their aggregator and therefore twitter is a better solution than Google Reader.... more... - Edwin Khodabakchian

So Edwin - Is there an issue with feedly pulling the shared items from specific people you are following? I can hardly get any to come across. - Amani

i love twitter lists and the retweet feature but i like to use gr to read rss feeds and share the most interesting posts on twitter, while i no longer use feedly - barbarars

Edwin Khodabakchian

Beards and Bellies - http://designyoutrust.com/2009...

November 20 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

This is a test! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin Khodabakchian

Unicorns and projections - http://37signals.com/svn...

November 20 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Interesting! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin Khodabakchian

Embedded In Bed - http://www.yankodesign.com/2009...

November 20 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

This is a sample note - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin Khodabakchian

Mind Blowing Hyperrealistic Sculptures - http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009...

November 19 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Impressive work - Edwin Khodabakchian

Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Dear Google: Please get rid of this page. Just add a setting so I can say "always use Google Reader for RSS feeds." (Or vice versa, or an option to always ask if someone uses both.) I've been going through this extra step for years now, and I am really tired of it.

November 9 - Comment - Like - Share

Michael Hocter, John, Alastair Montgomery and 47 other people liked this

They want us to use the google page. It is really just spam. - Mark Horne

20 more comments

If you use Firefox, BetterGReader extension let's you set a preference to bypass the choice. - LogEx

I'm pretty sure there's a gmscript for just skipping this page. Then again, it's just another click ;) - Itachi

LE, I might have to add BetterGReader just to do that. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

annoyed the hell out of me too, but then i stopped using greader - Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)

I really wish they would kill it. I *NEVER* want to add a feed to my google homepage. I never go there. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Exactly, Rah. I've never chosen the Homepage option. Google knows everything about me, they should know by now that this page is worthless to me. And seriously, now with Google's profiles and centralized accounts, a persistent setting for this should be a piece of cake to implement. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Agree, always on the Reader! Great tool! - John Tastad

Yes please! - Summer

Agreed! - Kevin Mohr

Feedly will skip this page for you ;) - Mitchell McKenna

Does it, Mitchell? I have Feedly installed at home, but I haven't noticed. I use Chrome at work, though. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Google Homepage just isn't needed for anything. I wish they'd pull the plug on that thing. - Matthew DeVries

that is why i use the google reader "subscribe" bookmarklet ;-) (edit: you can find it in your google reader settings) - Stanislas Jourdan

Jandy: there is a preview of feedly for chrome. If you are interested, please send me an email at edwink@devhd.com and I will send you an invite. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Agreed!! - Chris Myles

+ - zeroinfluencer

it's like you read my mind or something! - Loc

X-tra like! - Smeerch

i use better greader and it skips this for me. - Liz

Like Stanilas, I just use the bookmarklet. I haven't seen this page in a couple years. - Rob Haas from iPhone

Edwin, that's awesome! I'd love to give it a try - I'll shoot you an email. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

mjc

I got a DROID - http://www.scripting.com/stories...

November 7 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Leslie Poston, Jason, Mosquito, Edwin Khodabakchian and Laura Norvig liked this

Cool. Do you plan to build apps for it? - Edwin Khodabakchian

it's a link to a blog post by dave winer. I am planning on getting an HTC Hero though and have already written a few toy apps to get a feel for the SDK.. - mjc

Edwin Khodabakchian

Consumer Credit: Awful - http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archive...

November 6 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

not good - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin Khodabakchian

Three Paradoxes of the Internet Age - Part One - http://radar.oreilly.com/2009...

November 5 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Interesting read - Edwin Khodabakchian

Louis Gray

TweetDeck Promises to Add Twitter Lists Support Soon - http://blog.louisgray.com/2009...

October 30 from louisgray.com - Comment - Like - Share

Venkk Sastry, Bonnie Foster, Head Ov Metal and 17 other people liked this

What about Seesmic? - Jorge Escobar

13 more comments

Yes this would be awesome... #tweetdeck - Yann Ropars

I assume Loic will provide updates soon, but I can't speak for him. - Louis Gray

But you are on a speed dial basis with him, aren't ya? ;) - Jorge Escobar

I am on a speed-DM basis with him. :) - Louis Gray

Ok, so get his point of view as well for this post. Do some journalism for once! LOL j/k - Jorge Escobar

Isn't tweetdeck supposed to sync with two computers if you have it installed and logged on? Mine doesn't do that w/home and work computers. - Amani

Jorge, I updated the post to reflect that Loic has promised list support in Seesmic. - Louis Gray

Thank you, I'll send you the wire tonight ;) - Jorge Escobar

So does SocialToo :-) - Jesse Stay

I want these in my tweetie iphone app and hopefully they'll be in the new tweetie desktop version - Robert DeBord

Tweetdeck to Twitter list sync would be great - Mo Kargas

I wonder why Loic only mentions update for Seesmic Desktop, not Seesmic Web. Come to think of it, I wonder what Loic's plans are with the two. It seems like they almost go to different directions (some features are unique to each other) - Andre P. Siregar

Cool, anybody knows when twitter add GPS integration? - Francisco Espinoza from FreshFeed

It will be interesting to see if tweetdeck is able to transparently migrate their existing groups to twitter lists. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin Khodabakchian

Experimenting with Digg Trends - http://blog.digg.com/?p=1106

November 4 - Comment - Like - Share

This is a test. Please ignore. - Edwin Khodabakchian

/ignore - Louis Gray

Paul Buchheit

I tend to agree with Scoble about the "forum problem", but at the same time I really like seeing comments. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think it's less of an issue if you keep groups relatively small. re: http://scobleizer.com/2009...

November 3 - Comment - Like - Share

Nicola Greco, Marc Dong, John Serra and 81 other people liked this

I think the current FriendFeed approach is close to optimal. Do you not see it that way? - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

265 more comments

FF has the inherant ability for the user to take control, both of what they see and the comments they allow. If a user is judicious in their lists and/or filters they should see mostly relevent content (IF that's what they actually want to see). The ability for a poster to moderate comments on their own post gives us the ability to avoid trolls/spam and/or steer the conversation (again,... more... - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Scoble and other "super users" have this problem much more than regular people because they have thousands of subscribers. This is also part of the reason that Twitter probably works better for celebrities -- it's more of a broadcast channel. - Paul Buchheit

They could have a million subscribers and it wouldn't be an issue, Paul: turn off comments on his FF posts and it would be all broadcast all the time. It's the number of people they choose to subscribe TO that is the issue. To be honest, it's like someone walking into a football stadium and then complaining that it's too loud. If one chooses to follow thosuands of people one must surely expect that the amount of 'noise' is going to increase. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

One thing that was tossed around a while back was the ability to disable comments from anyone you're not subscribed to: that'd allow those with a lot of subscribers to have high-signal conversations that their subscribers can still see and gain value from. - Mark Trapp

Perhaps he'd like a 'hide user' button similar to FB? This would prevent the "brings people into YOUR life that YOU DID NOT INVITE!" effect... of course the conversation could be rather disjointed. Maybe a small 'additional comments hidden' status that would show them when desired... Of course, without the conversations, FF == twitter? - Eric Borisch

Paul, can you help me test something? :) - directeur

The features that would make FF optimal would be to let users follow each other's hides and blocks. For most users this would be a nice, small improvement. For users like scobleizer it might make a huge difference. Of course, implementation details matter. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

The problem is that we don't keep groups relatively small. There are always those who are like me who like to connect, for one, but even normal people add tons of people to their groups. It's just natural. I remember I was first to add 1,000 people to my Twitter account and people thought I was weird. Now thousands of people do that. - Robert Scoble

One thing with Facebook is they capped it at 5,000 friends. Which kept it from being used by super-connectors but also caused it to be seen as a place where you talk with just your real life friends. Now that public pages are coming on strong, we're seeing that change. - Robert Scoble

Bruce: the FriendFeed approach is far from optimal. Many, many people told me they don't like joining a forum and like just lurking instead, which is why they chose Twitter (Tim O'Reilly is not the only one who told me this). Tim Robbins likes that on Twitter he can listen to his heros. He sees it as a learning engine. Those of us here love FriendFeed because it lets us talk. But it definitely turns off lots of people. - Robert Scoble

Paul: the solution is to let us toggle comments on and off. Give the USER CONTROL. If they just want to listen to their friends, hide all the other noise. But then give us who like commenting ability to turn that back on. - Robert Scoble

You have the ability to toggle comments on and off: Edit -> Disable Comments. - Mark Trapp

Robert, comments _are_ content. - directeur

Mark: that is on a PER ITEM BASIS though. Totally useless for what we're talking about. - Robert Scoble

directeur: yes, but they are content a LOT of people don't want to see or deal with. - Robert Scoble

Robert, but then you'll be a megaphone broadcasting "your" views. - directeur

Robert has the same comments (or the same potential) on his blog as he does on FriendFeed, so I don't think it's the comments themselves. I think it's the fact that FriendFeed makes comments almost on equal level as the original post, instead of burying them way down at the bottom of a page or requiring a click to view. Out of sight, out of mind, right? - Daniel Sims

Nothing in the API precludes someone from writing a FriendFeed client that hides all the comments so you just see a river of feed items. That's how Twhirl, AlertThingy, and all the native iPhone apps implement FriendFeed. - Mark Trapp

I have two arms. I barely use my left one. Please cut it off! - directeur

Turning comments off entirely would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you could authorize other users to delete comments on your items, you could minimize the forum problem. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

directeur: that's right. That's what most professional publishers want. - Robert Scoble

I really think the "comments are awesome, why would you ever want to get rid of comments" argument falls on deaf ears at this point. The solution ought to be how to turn off comments if you want to get Scoble (or the people he's saying he represents) back on the FriendFeed train, or to say they're not worth it. I do think if it weren't for the comments, there'd be at least a half dozen other things Scoble or people like him would come up with to not like FriendFeed at this point. - Mark Trapp

I like the idea of having another options to disable comments for people you're not subscribed to. That way you can allow conversation, but limit it to people you "know" if it makes you more comfortable or limits the noise. I think you should have the ability to set the option as a default for all new posts but be able to override it on a post-by-post basis: 1) public comments 2)... more... - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Her Linday-ness: I want that but it would be hard to design. - Robert Scoble

Mark, I think you make a valid point but then the question becomes: if there are no comments, is FF still the best medium to use? If so, then the ability to turn off comments on one's entire feed should be easy enough to code and implement. I suspect, though, that all things being equal (meaning: there's no ability to comment on an item) FF would no longer be the best medium for a broadcaster. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Mark: I don't think these people will consider FriendFeed at this point. Too much momentum over on Twitter. Look at the news brands: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... you're not going to get them to switch off of Twitter at this point. Sorry. That game is over. - Robert Scoble

I think the real game is how does Facebook evolve? - Robert Scoble

The real game is an open decentralized solution. yes, I'm a dreamer. - directeur

Which leads everyone to wonder why you're trying to nitpick a feature like this, or base your argument on the lack of the feature. The real reason why you (and others like you) aren't into FriendFeed isn't because of the forum problem or the lack of a feature, it's because you think Twitter is better and that's where everyone is. That's fine: that's a great argument. The rest of it is inconsequential to that argument, and wouldn't invalidate it even if you got your way. So what's the point? - Mark Trapp

I've been talking with a lot of brands and celebrities and regular people. For public studying they like Twitter better. That has Facebook wondering what it will be in the future. - Robert Scoble

Mark: sorry, but I spent two years talking to thousands of people about FriendFeed and I'm just passing along why they didn't like it. Take that feedback or leave it. Your choice. - Robert Scoble

Mark: did you speak at dozens of conferences about FriendFeed and Twitter? Did you show hundreds of tech influentials FriendFeed and listen to their feedback? - Robert Scoble

But your feedback doesn't correlate to the real reason why you, and the people you say you represent, are saying why you won't ever use FriendFeed. You said there's nothing anyone could do to get people to use FriendFeed. - Mark Trapp

Mark: if I want to listen to ONLY tech influentials, I can on Twitter. I can't on Facebook. I can't on FriendFeed. http://twitter.com/Scoblei... - Robert Scoble

Robert, if you're going to pull the "don't you know who I am?" crap, it falls on deaf ears. Let's have a constructive conversation on what you're trying to talk about. - Mark Trapp

Can't you make lists in FF? - Andrizzle Gizzle

Sure you can: you can import feeds and lists on FriendFeed. - Mark Trapp

Mark: times change and at this point it would be hard to get anyone to take FriendFeed seriously. That said, I believe that it IS possible to move people from Facebook to Twitter or Twitter to Facebook, so THAT is the real battlefront. - Robert Scoble

any comment thread about 20+ without threading and community promotion/demotion becomes difficult to participate in (for me). Though there is a difference between discussing the radiator on a 94 Subaru and the nature of discussion forums. - Hayes Haugen

Robert: is the problem really comments or the fact that each time an item gets commented, the items pops back at the top of the list? Regarding the noise, I think that the "problem" with friendfeed is that it was much easier for people to plug in automated feeds and that as a result, there was less of an explicit action. I do not know how other people feel about this but I really miss... more... - Edwin Khodabakchian

Mark: OK, show me your public list the way I did on Twitter. You can't do that here, sorry. - Robert Scoble

Hayes: BING BING BING. - Robert Scoble

Ok, so it's not about who you read, it's who you can show that you are reading. - Andrizzle Gizzle

Bing goes the internet! lol - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Sure Twitter has a lot of momentum now, but how quickly the winds change. Frankly, it's a shame that FF is going to be neglected... I wish that someone with as much motivation and insight as Paul and the original team could take it over now that FB has consumed them. There is still SO MUCH potential in this platform that it is depressing to see it squandered. @Robert - I don't think it... more... - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Robert, I don't use public lists: I believe you read my blog post about why I don't. But Hutch Carpenter does, and here's his FriendFeed public list on Innovation Management: http://friendfeed.com/innovat... - Mark Trapp

Robert, who do you call "influentials"? Do they talk "tech" all the day? Isn't it unhuman? Let's go back to spring/summer 2008, and redefine "smart" for me, please :) - directeur

Edwin: the problem is on FriendFeed it has the chat problem -- it gets noisy and gets noisy fast. - Robert Scoble

directeur: influentials are people who influence. I picked them. Shoot me. - Robert Scoble

The noise is largely proportional to the circles you're in. If you put yourself in a huge room, it will be a loud room. - Kevin Fox

Robert, do you remember the "MOAR NOISE" phrase? It was THE reason why I built NoiseRiver. Filters, I used to say when you were always saying: MORE NOISE! - directeur

Kevin: exactly. But on FriendFeed the room gets big VERY QUICKLY because as more people join they drag in their followers with them. - Robert Scoble

Facebook has the same problem. While we're chatting here, tons of tech news diversity have swooped by. - Robert Scoble

So Robert, should there be something built in to "warn" others of becoming "chatty". Something that says: "This comment is irrelevant. You may post again when you have something relevant and germane to our discussion"? So WHO makes those distinctions and judgements? - Melanie Reed

Compare this chat to http://twitter.com/Scoblei... which one brought more information to you? The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time. - Robert Scoble

Melanie: in a chat room you can't control people that way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: True, but [big number]*[average number] is far larger than [average number]*[average number] - Kevin Fox

Hayes you are correct. Slashdot has actually had the best discussion forums for more than ten years because it has threading and community moderation. Its not a trendy social networking site though so no one notices. If you had a social network site where you post topics but with Slashdot like forums it would rock. Only down side is moderators tend to inject bias but /. has good signal after moderation kicks in - Ed Millard

Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :) - Melanie Reed

(Where you (scoble) are the big number) - Kevin Fox

Does it really have to be one or the other Robert? - Tad from fftogo

Kevin: the problem with FriendFeed is if you and Melanie were having a conversation it would be pretty small, right? But I follow you. The second I touch your conversation it gets big. - Robert Scoble

If only someone could figure out how to make a room that gets big very quickly appeal to broadcasters... - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

This problem doesn't happen on the private Facebook because you have two-way friending there and a cap of 5,000. But on Facebook Pages? Absolutely. Noise baby noise! - Robert Scoble

Bruce: broadcasters don't like any of this because there's no way to monetize. Why do you think Arrington really hated this? - Robert Scoble

Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :) What I would like is what Tad is implying in his comment. You know you can have "...two opposites that have learned how to blaze together" ;) And excuse me, but is wrong with a big conversation? - Melanie Reed

"The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time. " If someone doesn't care about it on FF, they can hide it and not see it again. Problem solved. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Chatting is not intended to provide information. It is like planning -- it is the process of chatting that is what is useful not the words that are spoken/written. - Brian Sullivan

Thank you, Tina! and Brian! - Melanie Reed

Melanie: I love big conversations. That's why I loved FriendFeed. But most people aren't like me. - Robert Scoble

Tina: there are so many things going by on my screen in FriendFeed that hiding them all would take all day long. - Robert Scoble

Robert -- why is it that you think that people are like you and things should be done for your needs? - Brian Sullivan

FF is too busy!! - Joe Silence is Dr. Teeth!

Brian: again, it's not about me. - Robert Scoble

Robert one word: APML. I used to yell it back in 2008, no one cared. You want "filters" by personal interest. - directeur

FreiendFeed sold ME on it two years ago. I've been trying to sell others on it. The feedback I'm giving is from OTHERS. - Robert Scoble

The Forum Problem is a problem? - tehKenny, Dork

directeur: APML will never work. - Robert Scoble

oh dear, don't hate the messenger. - Joe Silence is Dr. Teeth!

Robert: who are these "others" and what are their numbers? - Melanie Reed

Paul nailed it - Twitter is a broadcast channel. Massive amounts of subscriptions are fine there - it's all about reach. But if you want discovery, if you want to engage, then FriendFeed and FoaF is where it's all. They're NOT the same. One you can subscribe/follow as many as you want, in the other, subscription abuse will cripple your ability to view and interact. - AJ Kohn

Finally, a thread on this subject that makes sense. - Akiva Moskovitz

Threading may or may not help... it seemed to hurt with GoogleWave... it was so hard to follow all the tangents... of course without threading a lot of the tangents just get lost anyway. I guess I have given up on trying to catch everything... If it's important and I didn't see it the first time, eventually the concept will bubble up enough times for me to notice. That's one NICE thing about following lots of people and participating in lots of convos. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

why won't APML, or something like it, work? i missed that memo - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Robert, go say this to Last.fm or the BBC :-) Smart recommendation engines are the future - directeur

FriendFeed may make some audience/discussion leak out, but also makes audience leak in through seeing what your friends are talking about. Arrington may be mostly concerned about the leak out. Other broadcasters may be looking for the leak in. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Marshall, me neither! :) - directeur

Also, the meta around the content in FF (likes, comments) is what helps turns random data into information. It's annotated and qualified. - AJ Kohn

Lindsay: true - Hayes Haugen

Thank you, AJ, yes. And you can sort that out when you want to on your own time. That's the utility of it. - Melanie Reed

Perhaps one solution to the 'forum problem' is to allow posters to selectively choose who can participate in the discussion but still be viewable to the public. - Rodfather

I love the noise but I don't subscribe to thousands of user. - ashish from iPhone

So maybe the real question is, why do some people prefer conversation over broadcasting and vice versa? Is the broadcast-mentality simply a matter of popularity (the inability to reciprocate all the connections, so just broadcast instead) or is the effort it takes to connect with people on a more meaningful basis a major turn-off? Or is it just the tools that people use and what makes it easier for them? - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Rodfather, this will bring wars. Trust me. I'm not a commercial object. So you want to SHOUT and ask me to close my mouth? :) Moreover, close comments, other threads will be started and the noise you wanted to avoid will be even greater. The Streisand Effect, anyone? :) - directeur

For example: this discussion has 80+ comments and rolling. I don't mind that at all. I am engaged. I am also updating a web page on our web site as I do it and switching over to grade 30 some PRF's for students on the play Macbeth. I am not having any trouble with the "forum problem" or any "chattiness" I learned the "ropes" of FF when I joined and accepted that it as it was. - Melanie Reed

To me FF turns data (the river of content out there) into information (the good stuff - explained). The tool set FF provides is superior in this way - but it takes time to dial in the right set of filters to apply to the data set (which changes!) and many simply overwhelm the great filtering system they've provided. - AJ Kohn

A lot of people don't want to put in the time and effort to make the tool work for them like you, AJ and Melanie. I can empathize with that. I think it also has to serve their base inclination of either broadcasting or conversation, and the tool choice is also influenced by whether they already are part of a community on it or not. Most people won't leave their community even if it us using the less appropriate tool for their inclination. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

directeur, then those people can make their own thread and allow everyone to comment. I'm thinking of in case there's a roundtable event where certain 'experts' in a field can have a thread to discuss a topic among themselves without worrying about others cluttering the thread. - Rodfather

AJ, indeed - the task is to build new concepts with and for filters. Filters, not to shut stuff out, but to mix it better to create a constant flow of narratives. - zeroinfluencer

AJ, is it more that FF provides the platform for the users to turn that data into information? The users are integral to FF. Now with Twitter you can program a week's worth of tweets (I have heard) but I don't wish to do that. Facebook... you could almost do that-although it does have engagement -you could certainly use it without. But FF runs on an engagement engine - Melanie Reed

Marshall: I don't trust automatic systems to guess what I'm going to be interested in next. Never seen a system yet that works. But we should debate this. - Robert Scoble

Robert, we should debate it! The robot that makes all my decisions for me says it's quite likely I would enjoy doing that! ;) - Marshall Kirkpatrick

That's getting into intelligent agents and AI once full blown - Melanie Reed

if you ask me, and you don't, the problem has always been lack of comment moderation and threading. Too many users isn't a problem if no one sees them. Slashdot was one of the first doing this, using an interface which is actually very similar to FF and it seems to work there. - Vincent van Wylick

Web tech needs to look outside their dev environments for richer influences in filter design: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - zeroinfluencer

Is the problem that Robert is looking for a single service solution. I see the same 'content' on Twitter and FriendFeed but I scan Twitter for 'raw information' and go to FriendFeed to 'discuss' it with others. I watch the news at home on TV but I talk about it with my friends or work colleagues around the water cooler or coffee shop table. I am comfortable existing in several spaces - Johnny Worthington from iPhone

@Lindsay: I don't know. I'd rather educate people on the power that FF can provide with a little effort. Or, that it actually doesn't take LOTS of subscriptions. Max it at Dunbar's number (which is what I do for my home feed) and you'd be fine. - AJ Kohn

+++ Johnny Scotty would be proud of you: The right tool for the job - Melanie Reed

@David: Exactly! My home feed - I tweak it. I use people like Robert and Rob Diana and Michael Fruchter and Anthony Citrano and Thomas Hawk and numerous others to bring a mix of themes and concepts into my feed. - AJ Kohn

So are we saying that its not the tool itself...but HOW it is or is not used that maxes utility? If so I agree! - Melanie Reed

@Melanie: Yes, the users are the key. The users are the filters. http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/soylent... And the engagement provides a rich annotation and a secondary level of filtering. So yes, users and their engagement absolutely matter. - AJ Kohn

Sure, yes, how you use it maxes utility. But it also helps if it's suited to how you WANT to use it... if not it's a struggle. And people don't like to struggle, even if it's possible to make something do what you want it to... easier to use another tool if it fits your purpose better. FriendFeed fits my purpose so it's not a struggle for me... but for someone with a more broadcasting mindset than a conversational one, it's going to be tougher. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Vincent, most long-time FriendFeeders have spoken strongly against any sort of moderation/rating system for comments. No one wants mobs of people trying to control what other people can see like what happens on Digg. It's why every time the topic of 'Unlike' comes up, people rise up to talk it down because it creates an aura of competition and negativity. - Akiva Moskovitz

AJ, yes! users are the filters. - Melanie Reed

Akiva +++ - Melanie Reed

Anybody use Mailchimp here? It is tangential to the discussion. They have a cracker jack built in user educational system that monitors and makes usage suggestions. - Melanie Reed

Is lunchtime finally over yet? - Hayes Haugen

I'd love to peek in on the recommendation engine discussions. I'm in the 'they don't work camp' myself but I'm open to being convinced and perhaps technology has approached a point where it could work but ... from working in eCommerce I've seen it fail time and time again. Random factors, contextual issues etc. - AJ Kohn

@Melanie: Know of Mailchimp but don't use. The 'monitor and makes usage suggestions' sounds interesting though. - AJ Kohn

AJ, that's because the devs didn't pay attention when their instructors (ahem) were teaching it to them. ;) - Melanie Reed

Another point I'd like to make is that no one is forcing anyone to read the comments here. If people want a broadcast-only medium, it's fairly easy not to click on the 'x more comments' link. Unfortunately, Robert makes a painful observation: he played FriendFeed cheerleader for two years and the people who needed to take the bait didn't or did but then cut loose. That pretty much means... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

Johnny: I am comfortable with all of these too, but it's not about me. But, anyway, the business battle now is between Facebook and Twitter and it'll be interesting to see the choices that Paul's team makes and how those compare with the team NK over at Twitter is making. Then the market will choose which one is best. - Robert Scoble

Akiva: If I were at Facebook and knew that they could turn into the next MySpace I'd put every single engineering minute onto Facebook. Wouldn't you? - Robert Scoble

Like I said before, there is still SO MUCH potential here... and it's a shame to see it squandered. I think there are a lot of ways it could be taken to the next level. For sure it could be a contender to Twitter with a few enhancements, but fat chance of that now that there is no longer a dev team, and that it's "parent" is a competitor. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Robert, here's a good example: You want to debate intelligent recommendation agents? Allright, I know that you know Chris Saad. Chris is a very cool guy in fact! But do you know Deniz Oktar? Deniz, who is not as popular as Chris, is a SMART Turkish guy too and works on the same subject. If you limit your view to "popular" people, you'll definitely miss him. And debating such a subject without alternative ideas likes Deniz's or humbly mine, won't be perfect :) - directeur

Not sure, Robert. Is turning into the next MySpace a good thing for you or a bad thing? For me, it'd be bad. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, go take a look at (and experience) mailchimp's monitor and make usage suggestion system. It's adaptable for a number of scenarios - Melanie Reed

I think the business battle (other than the marketing to consumers end of it) will be occupied and won by Wave. Facebook, Twitter and FriendFeed are mere toys in that world. - Brian Sullivan

Melanie, I'm not complaining about a solution that MailChimp could provide. I'm fine with FriendFeed as it is (for the most part). - Akiva Moskovitz

directeur: most people choose news brands to curate and find new people that will have something valuable to say. See http://twitter.com/Scoblei... for instance. That already is TOO MUCH so telling people to get more people or more things into their lives just isn't going to cut it for most people. - Robert Scoble

Allowing public panels where only the influential can talk certainly would have a useful role, Its just like panels at conferences. A lot of people would no doubt like to just follow the influential in these forums. On the down side it would make the already influential more so and it would probably lose some audience if it was done a lot because there is no democratic engagement. The people who don't spend all their time cultivating their fame and networks do say interesting things too. - Ed Millard

directeur: and, anyway. if he's in Turkey and not in San Francisco he's far less likely to influence tech in a major way. So I disagree. - Robert Scoble

(FYI - look at this conversation and tell me where else anything like this could take place.) - AJ Kohn

No, we're completely boring and worthless, Ed. We're not worth paying attention to. I mean, who wants to see a picture of our kids? ;) - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Akiva, I meant for those who might struggle "getting" FF but would enjoy and benefit from it once they do. There's an "on ramp" to FF that rivals North Corridor Dallas coming out of an apt complex on to 50mph+ 4 lane traffic. Some of us are better at that than others, but you still see a lot of cars on the road. :) - Melanie Reed

IRC or a phpBB messageboard! - Joe Silence is Dr. Teeth!

There has also been a lack of creative uses using the FF tool sets. Good uses of the tools inspires participation + it's easy to criticize -- harder to create. - zeroinfluencer

@Robert: Whoa, whoa. Weren't you arguing that adding 8K new people from Twitter Lists was a good thing? Is more better, or worse? - AJ Kohn

+++David - Melanie Reed

@David: Good point, no real developer platform. That's been a big boon for both Facebook and Twitter. - AJ Kohn

Robert, yet he DOES. You just aren't into that speciality :) If you think that every "tech" thing must happen in SF you really miss A LOT. - directeur

Woah, Robert, so you are saying anyone who doesn't live in SF doesn't count in a tech discussion? That's a little self centered isn't it? - Ed Millard

I understand it but I really dislike any discussions where the topic seems to be "how can we turn this thing that the people who use it like into something that people who don't use it and would only use it for selfish reasons like?" Screw them. If something's not as "techy" as Slashdot and it's more chaotic because the comments aren't threaded like Slashdot and there's no moderation... more... - Mark H

Lindsay, I want to see a picture of your kids. I only wish I had some to show back. ;) - Melanie Reed

Ed: you are NOT a careful reader. - Robert Scoble

Robert's not saying that those ideas can't happen, or that a true revelation can't come from elsewhere, but that ... the likelihood that someone outside of SF to influence tech is less. The Capital of the Internet is SF. I'd agree with that. But that doesn't mean it'll always stay that way, nor does it mean that tech from other areas can't be influential. (least that's how I read it.) - AJ Kohn

OK I just read it, you still said if you don't live in SF there is very little chance you will have any influence on tech. If you have no influence then you either have nothing to say on the subject, or even if you do have something to say it wont matter. - Ed Millard

Hrm, I think the whole thing is overblown. My personal FF landing page still has as much utility as my first day (if not more). Bleh, whatever. - Chieze Okoye

@AJ The FF API is beautiful, I don't think dev communities saw the richness that you can create with the aggregation of FF streams. A few valley PR oriented bloggers pushed 'conversation' as FF's 'killer app' - whereas, the realtime aggregation streams and republishing of content is radical and unique. - zeroinfluencer

Well I'm pretty sure all the people in Seattle, Toronto, Paris, London, Moscow,Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Beijing, Bangalore, Boulder, etc. probably disagree - Ed Millard

@David: I'll take your word on the API and wouldn't doubt it given the FF team's chops. But fostering usage, that community - that's where things may have gotten shaky. Too few people leveraging it. It could still resolve back to an inability to really grasp what FF can do for them. - AJ Kohn

AJ, I think you're on to something. Back in the day, usability (including general user and disabled) use to be a well-known topic. Universities made it a part of the curriculum. Everything before and including e-commerce got the once over. But it occurs that the latest generation (including GLS and SM) have outpaced the community standards for usability. It's really the wild west again-... more... - Melanie Reed

Akiva: I suspect the noise problem Robert's describing from others isn't that comment threads get too long. It's that items keep popping to the top as new comments show up, when they don't want to see the new comments. I don't see any way around that except a separate client. It would take too much away from the FriendFeed experience for the default interface not to work this way. - Bruce Lewis

Mark, I didn't mean to suggest /. is the only solution to the forum problem. If you have really big forum discussions /. is time tested way to control noise and raise the signal level. On the other hand it would probably be a horrible solution for intimate and friendly discussions among friends. Someone earlier Lindsey? kind of had a good suggestion. When you make a post have a row of option buttons and let the poster set the kind of forum for that thread, broadcast, panel, open, modded, thredded, not.. - Ed Millard

Ed: I specifically said "far less likely." I didn't say there is very little chance. But, seriously, this is an argument for another thread. Lots of people think they have influence but actually don't have as much. For instance, I love to think I have influence on Facebook but I'm far less likely to influence that then Paul Buchheit is. Facts are facts. - Robert Scoble

Chieze glad you like FriendFeed. Me too. It's awesome. But that doesn't mean much to the rest of the world. - Robert Scoble

Robert, how often do you use "Add This"? It's germane :) - Melanie Reed

OK we will agree to disagree on that one and drop it. I've lived in the bay off and on, I think there are pluses and minuses to being there. - Ed Millard

Melanie: "Add This" being the "Add Photos" at top of FriendFeed? Not as much as I should. - Robert Scoble

Robert: No this service: http://www.addthis.com/ This is fast becoming the SM share button for many websites. Ours uses it. And FF is on it. Take a look at the entire list - Melanie Reed

FriendFeed's feature set will mean a lot to the rest of the world when it's fully integrated into Facebook in 2011. - Bruce Lewis

Bruce: I don't think it'll take that long. - Robert Scoble

Robert, you may be right, in which case FriendFeed is a relevant thing to look at. Maybe it isn't actually too far ahead of its time. - Bruce Lewis

Just like Lisp can make you a better programmer in other languages, FriendFeed can make you a better thinker when writing about other social networks. Popularity isn't everything, even for a blogger. - Bruce Lewis

You mean, it's not all about attention? :D - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Who really knows why Twitter got all the traction? Does Scoble? I very much doubt it. I think there's a great effort going into finding a logical explanation for Twitter massive success and FriendFeeds more modest gains. My own best guess is that it has more to do with the madness of crowds than it does with any limitation in FriendFeed. Twitter had a decent enough foothold already by... more... - JSLeFanu from FreshFeed

Twitter got the traction because Twitter's easy. It requires very little effort to get into and it requires even less to participate. It's the same reason why YouTube comments are the cesspool of the Internet and MetaFilter's comments are not: anyone can sit around and watch videos all day and then trash talk them but you make people pay to comment and you'll weed out the chaff almost... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

David: I was there from early days on Twitter and studied how it grew. I know more than you might think. Remember, I was the first person to follow 1,000 people there and I was the 13,800ish user to join. - Robert Scoble

This link is the most illuminating one on FF traction at the time of the buyout. It indicates FF was just starting to regain traction after it had stalled out for a while and it suggests if maybe FF had stuck it out a while longer things might have changed. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Ed Millard

Twitter got hot in the early days because of Leo Laporte and because of SXSW and because it was goofy fun way for tech influencers to talk to their friends. It just kept growing from there. Another factor in addition to simplicity (Akiva's right there) is the API. Tons of clients and tools and services are built on top of it. FriendFeed got nearly none in comparison. - Robert Scoble

The difference may be luck of the draw ( a la Gladwell) - Brian Sullivan

People had to build tons of clients, tools and services for Twitter because the default web UI is so bad. - Ed Millard

Ed: what that graph doesn't show you is what we now know. Google Wave sucked a lot of attention of geek influentials away (IE Hype) and Facebook's Connect is running away with another game. I went into FriendFeed the week they decided to sell and asked them because I knew Twitter had new features coming that would make FriendFeed less interesting. I think the FriendFeed team looked at the competition and decided to fold. - Robert Scoble

How could I have ignored the API? It's like Firefox's plug-ins: it's the only thing that makes Twitter usable for many users. Without it, they wouldn't touch it. Heck, if it weren't for Tweetie 2, I wouldn't touch it either. - Akiva Moskovitz

And Facebook's Connect platform is getting incorporated everywhere. I think FriendFeed was hoping to become part of the general web, like what we did over on http://building43.com and that just wasn't going to happen because Facebook's Connect platform is rocking and rolling now. In fact, I made a fundamental blunder by not going with Facebook on Building43. If I had, our traffic would have been much higher than it is now. - Robert Scoble

You can be sure that once CNN and other assorted media outlets started plugging Twitter it was game over. Once the band wagon was rolling every "personality" was going to hop on. It is a little disturbing that Miley Cyrus has now joined the "everyone should delete their Twitter accounts" camp. - Ed Millard

David Hall +1 Steven Berlin Johnson would be a good reference - the persistence of babble is incredible valuable in phatic communications. FF, through the web interface hides a lot of that. Instead, the babble was more bookmark centric and less about 'having a sandwich'. That's why you have, on the whole, better conversation threads on FF, and ending up having to duck out of the way of... more... - zeroinfluencer

Disturbing REALLY????? My word, Miley is absolutely right <sarcasm/> - Roberto Bonini

To paraphrase Louis Gray's wife, "nerds in startups are fickle". I speculate they had a lot of self doubt when they stalled out prior to that up tick, and decided to sell just about the time FF was starting to take off again. Someone waves $50 million at you during a period of self questioning that is a potent motivator, I think Zuckerberg saw that and he did nip a potential competitor in the bud. - Ed Millard

But all the above comments is about public sharing. I use FF a lot for project planning and development - it's fast - you can discuss items with good archive search, and you can post media. I wonder how many people use FF in this way, and ignore the public babble? - zeroinfluencer

Having read most of this thread (and Robert, comments are VERY valueble) the"forum problem" is NP-complete. Comments are valuable becuase seeing people reason is often just as enlightening, if not more so, than the original information. - Roberto Bonini

Ed - mind you, there's only a few ways you can get to the helm of the FB API design and product development. :) Who's to say this isn't all going according to plan? - zeroinfluencer

Roberto: me and you agree on that. In my research most people do not. They see these things as noise. But, if you make the comments toggle on and off we BOTH win! Plus, comments REALLY help search! - Robert Scoble

Ed: correction, it was $50 million. - Robert Scoble

Robert you keep talking about "your research". Is this anything more than anecdotal conversations? - Brian Sullivan

David, Well maybe Paul and Co. are doing a trojan horse on FB but what I've read about Zuckerberg he doesn't seem likely to relinquish control of anything he cares about and I am skeptical you are going to turn FB in to FF with their entrenched user base. - Ed Millard

@Scoble you're arguing from authority again. I think on a broadcast platform like Twitter that's an easier one to pull off. On Twitter it's a big "so what" if you've posted a load of BS because most people will simply miss any challenge to your "content." Post the same on FriendFeed and you get tackled and you get tackled in public. Reasonable enough grounds to explain your current stance and certainly as good as any reason I've heard you put forward yourself. - JSLeFanu

Robert, I stand corrected, and it is corrected, this editing your posts thing is one of FF's scarier features. - Ed Millard

OPEN QUESTION: Is FF gaining or losing users? I see very little here now - but I'm told user numbers are going through the roof. - Jim Connolly

Ed: tell me one thing. What's the biggest difference between FF and FB? There's already not as much difference as you'd might think. The one thing I miss over there? Real time search. - Robert Scoble

Twitter got big because it's about ego. Look at me, Me, ME! Twitter flourished because people like to talk about themselves. (FF is not, which is why it hasn't gained nearly as much traction.) It was developed as an update service. It has evolved into ... something else. As for comments, they are invaluable. - AJ Kohn

Jim: user numbers are not going through the roof here. I don't know anyone credible who has said that. The registered numbers are going up, but the active numbers are going down. - Robert Scoble

AJ: FriendFeed is just as much about ego as Twitter is. If not more so. - Robert Scoble

Ed, the goal is to design influentially for the web. Paul B does seem to give that ethos in his startup camp talks and general interviews. I would think FB would warm to that ideology. - zeroinfluencer

Very true. Robert. - Roberto Bonini

@Robert: How? Seriously, I'd like to hear your opinion. - AJ Kohn

Robert: In other words, as people like yourself, Arrington and even those little guys like myself with a couple of thousand subscribers leave - we're being replaced by less active users. Makes sense. I used to check in on and off all day. Now, 2/3 times a week, - Jim Connolly

Jim: not true. I don't see a lot of people joining in here and I'm watching it closely. Sorry. More people are leaving the back door than are coming in the front. - Robert Scoble

To me the two big ones are 1) perception that it more walled garden networks and not as open though certainly it has avenues which are more open like FF 2) its home to massive quantities of apps, games, spam from people trying to get rich that hold no interest to me, though obviously many others like them. FF is probably just overlooked by that crowd, if it were bigger it would be infected with all that crap too. FF seems to mostly just be good people from my limited time here. - Ed Millard

All User Centric Design is modeled around the ego. Good software design keeps that in mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - zeroinfluencer

AJ: Twitter is, for many people, about business now. Not ego at all. News brands: http://twitter.com/#... no ego. Tech companies: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... No ego. But here? It's ALL about ego! - Robert Scoble

David is right. - Robert Scoble

On Twitter the default is to show number you follow, number of followers, number of Tweets. That's all playing on ego and popularity. Nearly everything (even lists) is geared to stimulate a innate need to acquire more of something as a way to ... validate contribution or perceived influence or authority. FF does not show this in the default mode. - AJ Kohn

Companies and brands are the most aggressive form of ego there is, and they usually are direct reflections of the ego of the company's CEO. - Ed Millard

Alright Robert. In order to reduce the signal to noise ratio, we can do one of two things, we can use "Likes" to filter the comment stream. If I Like more posts from Robert than i do from LG, Roberts comments appear but not LG's. We can use semantics to (somehow) sort the thread and show comments relevant to the original post. (simply dumping noise isin't a solution - not all noise is noise all the time. Likewise, increasing signal in an echo chamber is fruitless) - Roberto Bonini

@Robert: Oh, I think Twitter is a great business tool! It's a marketers paradise. But I'm not sure that's what most people believe it to be. People still think they're going to get some sort of social dialog there. I think it's why Twitter churn is so high. People get it thinking it'll be one thing and quickly find out it's another. - AJ Kohn

+1 AJ, there are some people that use Twitter in awesome, constructive, useful, ways like Tim O'Reilly and Jay Rosen but a lot of people its pure self promotion. As for news outlets using twitter they are going to go wherever the eyeballs are, and they will go to multiple networks not just Twitter. Those are pure broadcast, no engagement, they aren't really a ringing endorsement of why Twitter is great. - Ed Millard

I'd bet FF *would* take off (but be worse for it) if it listed how many times the content I fed got liked and commented on, and that (along with subscribers etc.) were all listed right there at the top of my home feed. And that upon signing up, I'd get suggested users based on subscriptions but also who got the most likes and comments. Yet, I don't think that's conducive to what FF really excels at. - AJ Kohn

@Robert, biggest difference between Facebook and Friendfeed - reciprocal connections. Without a doubt. The apps, the ads, other stuff, is true, but for me the central difference, and the thing that betrays a fundamental difference of worldview between the two apps is whether or not you can follow someone's content without them having to follow you back. You can only do that on Facebook... more... - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

@Ed: I realized a long time ago that Twitter was a big Internet megaphone. And if you could get a lot of people to 'listen' to that megaphone well, that's powerful stuff. It's about Reach. Twitter gives your message reach. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see it as ... transforming. - AJ Kohn

Those who study the art of propaganda consider reach to be everything, because following reach is influence, and following influence is control. TV is losing its reach in the Internet era so most of those "brands" and "personalites" are rushing to find a way to regain it, enter Twitter and FB. They are better because they are bidirectional. - Ed Millard

*Noise* :) - ashish

@Ed: I'd be interested to see more on how reach leads to influence. It often does but ... not always. Plenty of multi-million dollar ad campaigns in the graveyard as examples. Reach + ? = influence. - AJ Kohn

Ed I think you're right. I caught that TC piece at the time too. Seems to me that the FriendFeed guys had a bit of a crisis of confidence and grabbed lunch while it was on offer. In any case I always figured FriendFeed as a place to graduate to once you'd rammed up against Twitters limitations. And, as I'm sure you know, that doesn't take long. That's how I got here. I was actually on... more... - JSLeFanu

You don't have influence until you have reach so its the prerequisite. Then it a matter of how effectively you craft the message and push the buttons in your target audience. Some people are good at that part, some aren't, some fail, some succeed. - Ed Millard

Robert, I just wonder. Isn't twitter more about consuming the information and FF more about sharing and discussing? Look at http://twitter.com/Scoblei.... What can anyone add to that or comment on that? I agree it is getting a lot noisy in here (exhibit, this post). But not all posts will be this noisy I think. - Amit

+1 Jandy, she answered Robert's challenge to me better than I did. - Ed Millard

@Ed: I'm not sure. New memes start with someone small sometimes. Say ... keyboard cat ... and someone who has reach communicates that message and it goes big. So who has the influence? The creator of keyboard cat or the person to has the reach to make it go big? I find it very interesting. - AJ Kohn

Jandy: +100. You just nailed for me why I like Twitter and FriendFeed better than Facebook. Agreed. - Robert Scoble

Robertt, maybe this post and the scads of comments prove your point, but maybe your point is limited to your own experience due to your unique position in tech. You speak, noise follows. But that does not make Friendfeed irrelevant or useless for the average or even just left or right of average user. You have a unique experience that is going to color any forum you put your time into.... more... - Martha

+++Jandy - Melanie Reed

Well put, Jandy. - Akiva Moskovitz

I think the forum problem is not as big in smaller more intimate groups. Recently I've been very active in the DMU group here that includes a lot of folks who've migrated here from Flickr. The relevancy is much more higher in these venues than in the main feed because it's a smaller controlled experience. I do wish though that groups were more full featured like the rest of FF though.... more... - Thomas Hawk

oh of course and photo voting pools for groups would by awesome too. ;) - Thomas Hawk

Lists are not enough. Twitter, FF and other social networks need tagging by default, then filter on list + tag. That's the element that would kill the noise and turn them into interest networks. - howard shippin from BuddyFeed

Martha: you might have a point if we were just talking about me. But we're not. So, try again. Again, I've talked with thousands of people about these things. They tell me they don't like the noise that public forums bring. I've been doing this for 25 years and this isn't the first time I've heard this pushback. Facebook, by the way, on its iPhone app, handles it perfectly: it hides all... more... - Robert Scoble

You all keep referring to this as either chat or comments when actually its a discussion. I think that the ability to discuss anything on Friend Feed or anywhere else for that matter IS where you learn the most. I'm not techy like most of you, I'm just an ordinary 'average' user, but I see twitter more as a 'newsreel' of info, shallow but instant, whereas Friend Feed is more a 'thrashing out of ideas and opnions, and is therefore all the richer for it. - Sandra Large

Sandra: chat/discussion/forum/comments are all pretty much the same thing. Yes, the two are different. There CAN be lots of learning here, it's just that this is a lot noiser than other online things in some ways. - Robert Scoble

Robert, about noise: when you or other tech influencers introduce FriendFeed, you show the things you're excited about, which tend to be big and noisy, right? And if you're the first person someone follows on FF, they're going to get a noisy first impression. The slower growth that doesn't come through tech influencers may have less of a back door. - Bruce Lewis

And about the 25+-year-old forum problem: Moderated Usenet was great until moderators slacked off. Decentralized moderation fixes that, at least for small discussions. Larger discussions can lead to whack-a-mole (though I notice this one hasn't), but with one of the suggestions I made earlier in this conversation the number of whackers could scale with the number of moles. - Bruce Lewis

Moderation = censorship. Censorship sucks. Give the users control to hide and block. The less censorship the better. - Thomas Hawk

@Paul - what about a view to only see the user's posts/content ie no comments of others and no likes => then it becomes twitter like - Kishore Balakrishnan

Come on, it's hardly messier than Facebook, since the default view only includes the first and last comment. Basically the gist I'm getting is that people who think they're important don't want to listen to people who they don't think are important. Such is the human race, I suppose. - Victor Ganata

+++Victor hammer meets nail. - JSLeFanu

Robert said "FB iPhone app ... hides all comments with an arrow that you can then use to expand the comments. That is so much better than this mess here that it isn't funny". Robert, I must be missing your point because FF also hides most comments until you expand them because you want to read them... Don't want to read FF comments, don't expand them, problem solved. Or are you saying FF is a "mess" because it shows first and last comment? - Ed Millard

235 comments! I really don't want to expand *that* on FF! Is this a pain-point for anyone else? - Space Cowboy

Not for me. If I'm interested enough in the topic or dialog I'll click the time stamp and open the post page to read everything. The text amount is comparable to a medium length blog post: if I have the time to read that I have the time to read this if it interests me. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

A typical blog post? Dragging & copying the comments only (which took about a min. of scrolling) produced 9200 words and 23 pages of text. Blog posts also tend to have a more easily read narrative. - Vincent van Wylick

The problem is for big conversations like this one you need threading and maybe moderation, but for more normal conversations that are smaller flat is better. Allowing a switch between the two adds complexity. For big conversations FF lacks the button to reply to a specific poster so the viewer can thread, at least as an option. Much of the noise level in this conversation is due to people having to manually try to fake threading. - Ed Millard

The threading vs. flat conversation is interesting to me - we've tried multiple times to put Disqus or Intense Debate on a film blog I write for, and every time we meet huge resistance to threading ESPECIALLY on long threads. People say they have a lot of difficulty finding the new comments when they aren't all at the top or bottom. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Why can't there be a summary fly-out with timestamps based on response rate to single comments and a "last comment made" link as well as "thread count" links and lastly, "participants in this thread" link? Collapse everything else except the initial post. The initial interface looking like this one, should always be available for those who want to "sort through". You want the... more... - Melanie Reed

Jandy, you kind of have to let the user flip between threading and flat to solve the chronology problem. Slashdot has a popup menu at the top that lets you view in "Threaded, Nested, Flat, No Comments". The down side is the UI gets progressively more complex both to implement and use unless you are going to force everyone to lowest common denominator UI. - Ed Millard

But Ed, that's what I have against the traditional "threaded" approach: all the fork like structure. It does get complicated real fast. What's needed is somewhere a "summary" for those jumping in late to "catch up" but also the "single comment" link to democratize the discussion. Threads have all the indentation problems of trying to follow that way IF I am picturing what you mean by thread. - Melanie Reed

+1 Ed - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

My other observation is this: everyone creates a "story" about the ideas and information they are taking in and immediately starts associating connections in their mind creating a mental picture whether they realize it or not when they are perceiving that information. Our user interfaces don't yet lend themselves to that especially where it come to dialogue and forums. We've accepted a... more... - Melanie Reed

Here's why you don't need indented/tangential threading: FF discussions tend to be small enough to fit in the "RAM" in one's mind. It curtails many threads that might ramble; the exception (like Paul's thread here) comes when the power of the topic/zeitgeist and vibe of a live chat going strong overrides that usual point of decay. Predictablly, one or several commenters here will start a new thread or escalate it to a blog post and summarize their thoughts based on what transpired on this stream. - Micah Wittman

Melanie, have you used Slashdot, they did forums earlier and better than anyone. The forum starts out flat, and then starts threading. Random community moderators start modding up the insightful posts, and burying the trolls, crap, etc. Once the moderation kicks in the "summary" is all the posts that were modded up to 5 which are shown expanded. All the lower moderated stuff is there but you have to clck to see. Slashdot would suck like YouTube comments if they hadn't solved the forum problem. - Ed Millard

It's organic, not hierarchical. As other have stated, there is as much to learn from watching the process unfold as there is to gain from end result. - Micah Wittman

Ed, no, I haven't used Slashdot but I'm willing to give it a try. I'm pretty adaptable. But when I see a problem and it becomes "the picture" for me, in this case a circle then I know its time for the leap out of the present "prison of one idea". ;) - Melanie Reed

Micah, its true threads are bad for small friendly forums. Some of this discussion is about what happens when the forums on "celebrity" social expert's threads get so big they overflow readers brains and they turn in to *noise*. One noise problem is organization, the other is some post and some posters are better than others in the mind of the celeb and the reader. - Ed Millard

Slashdot dealt with most of the forum problems ten years ago, they had to to survive the trolls. The problem is their UI needs to be complex to be flexible and keep everyone happy. Their audience is also mostly geek power user. When you get to social networks the other UI school is demanding the UI be dirt simple so the unwashed masses can cope, but dirt simple mean its inflexible and it ticks off nearly everyone, especially power users. Hard problem to solve... making everyone happy. - Ed Millard

Ed, conferences have break-out groups. The same idea should be employed. - Micah Wittman

Ed, yes, you offered a little explication for others of what happens when you lost the ability to categorize your"story" into a mental picture that is associated with previous "stories" you have stored in the brain. That end result is "noise". Some of us are better at doing that than others, that's true. But there come a point of over flow for all of us. What our UI needs to do is to amplify and assist in that "story" constructing process. - Melanie Reed

Break out groups is a nice idea, but it seems a bit cumbersome. You need to make a new post, post a link here and get some critical mass from the first forum to move. If you do it five times you would splinter the first forum and lose critical mass, especially in a "real-time" forum where people will only watch one forum at a time. Chances are most people will cling to the first forum if its interesting. - Ed Millard

Ed and Micah, what I hear both of you saying, and Robert as well, is that at some point in the "story" constructing process, the dialog from the forum needs to end in the narrative of a blog. Up till now, the blog component has been a random, unattached part of the discussion. AM I hearing that you think that in some way it should become part of the UI? So that the discussion gets... more... - Melanie Reed

Not sure I follow, blog is kind of a one voice, one direction thing, only way a forum morphs to blog is when once person splits off the forum to make a more in depth point and posts the blog link to the forum. I'm mostly just talking about the various methods for restoring order in a big forum, and improving signal to noise ratio. Most entail putting more options and more UI in and around the forum and making the UI more complex which many think is bad on a social network. - Ed Millard

Ed, as I was writing this, it occurs to me that what I'm suggesting is what I may have just figured out (finally) that Google Wave is trying to get us to do. But if so, I beleive FF could actually do it better. the "noise" problem that was created by the various forms of SM, inside and outside of the platforms, was the inability to "connect the dots". We didn't have a framework for how... more... - Melanie Reed

One of the problems that we haven't solved is the usefulness of digression and random access of connective tissue in the "story" process. That's the wild card that often comes up as "noise" - Melanie Reed

I can't speak for Robert. Some of his issue "seems" to be he only wants to see the Silicon Valley/SF movers and shakers in his feed talking about tech and social networks, and he doesn't much want anyone but that same group to be posting on forums under his auspices. Friend Feeds openness is bad for that. The same is true for all the Twitter celeberati. They don't want peons anywhere near their online presence to tarnish it. - Ed Millard

Only way I can see to maintain FF openness for those who want it, and celeb broadcast only mode for the celebs who demand it, in one social network is you have to have an option when you make a post on your feed to control the forum methodology (i.e. broadcast only peons can only look on, panel mode where only my social elite are allowed to speak & peons can watch, private where only my circle can speak and see (FB mode), or completely OPEN(FF mode). - Ed Millard

There also seems to be an issue where someone you follow, through the "like" process, can inject pictures of kittens, babies and man titteh in to your feed. Of course that is kind of the original point of social networks, seeing what your network sees. I think some just want hard core tech news and talk and twitter lists probably do allow an uber though somewhat lifeless feed like that. - Ed Millard

Ed, well, that is the territory of the heart when it comes into contact with the machine. And oddly (or maybe not so oddly) there is a post on my feed that addresses that theme: http://friendfeed.com/faithx5... ;) Digression and Random access at work. lol And I find that refreshing. I'm always excited about how some new idea may be generated because I allowed what... more... - Melanie Reed

@Melanie: I fully believe in non-linear learning. The ability to take input from diverse thematic content and synthesize something ... to apply something from one world to the other. That's where I think we're heading. I think of it a little bit like a digital version of Burroughs' Cut Up technique: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - AJ Kohn

I can't believe I read the whole thing - Michael Slattery

Such a simple and obvious solution: provide an optional *LIST* view for Friendfeed items. Open the comments only on items that look really interesting. Am I missing something obvious? Then Friendfeed could easily emulate Twitter on all essentials (and surpass it in many other areas). - Sean McBride

Sean, I think the obvious thing you are missing is there are no FF developers any more so FF probably isn't getting anything it doesn't already have. And there are camps here that don't really like the alternatives that FB and Twitter offer which is why this is such a hot button issue. I wish there was one social network that had lists, open forums, walled gardens, and broadcast mode based on the wishes of the person running a feed so everyone could be happy in one network. - Ed Millard

Robert Scoble

Where has my FriendFeed gone? The picture says it all. By the way, this is the "best of day" right now. Sad.

November 1 - Comment - Like - Share

Mitchell Tsai, paniaguai, Ankush Narula and 65 other people liked this

Compare these two. FriendFeed has great pictures, but content that is, well, not interesting. Twitter, on right, has 6,000x better content but doesn't look as nice due to no pictures. Will Brizzly come to rescue? - Robert Scoble

154 more comments

I hope somebody comes up with a fabulous client to maximize content and serve up more media - Susan Beebe

And people wonder why I don't come here much anymore. Sigh. - Robert Scoble

FriendFeed used to be very heavy in tech discussions. Now it's rare I see a tech discussion on the "best of day" feed. - Robert Scoble

The cap on the left is infinitely preferable to the right. I can't tell you how glad I am not to be inundated with tech stuff all day long. One man's trash... - Jim in Real Time

Time to adjust your subscriptions. - Bruce Lewis

try PowerTwitter ...also, which service has 6000x more users? doesn't that affect content choices? - .LAG liked that

I keep looking for the comments link on Brizzly. - Tom Landini

PowerTwitter is a great add to the twitter website (Firefox add-on) - Susan Beebe

There's more to talk about than just "tech", seriously... - Rob Haas

Robert - Do you have any general news, world news Twitter lists/groups? I tried scrolling through you lists, but they all seem pretty tech-slanted. If Twitter is to replace Friendfeed and Google Reader, then we need to be able to get real news and information out of the thing. - Matthew DeVries

The left is a best of day from your 28000 subscriptions. The right is a heavily curated list focused on something you are interested in. Try "best of" on a curated list (there is a link at the bottom of every list feed to best of for that feed). - Benjamin Golub

agree totally with you Scoble, Bruce: adjusting wouldn't make a difference now - ffcode

Ben - great advise! - Susan Beebe

I know twitter is occupied with infrastructure and list improvements, but you would think they could be building brizzly-esque features pretty easily. - Sean Montgomery

Sean - right. Twitter has to stablize their platform, then focus on UIX - Susan Beebe

Matthew: I'm a geek. Other people are doing news lists. I might start one, though. You are the second person to ask for one. - Robert Scoble

and there aren't tech discussions here one of the prime reasons are Scoble left and he is usually followed by around 10k folks everywhere, and his predictions affect all, weak or strong minded - ffcode

I find it a fascinating observation: Twitter is better than FriendFeed because there's more tech discussions in my feed. Is that the criteria you use for judging other social media sites? Because, IMHO, social media is about connecting people, not about tech discussions. - Glen, Bespectacled Elder

ffcode: sorry, I'm tracking the geek participation here and sorry, the really geeky stuff has definitely gone down. - Robert Scoble

always wondered how your feed would look like but it is clear you are no different ;) - ffcode

Robert - I come to you because you're the best list builder and analyzer of signal to noise. - Matthew DeVries

Glen: sorry, where the geeks go generally the general public follows. Generally. And, anyway, compare this stuff to Facebook. Even there it's a loser, sorry. I watch my wife's feed all the time and compare it to FriendFeed and FriendFeed loses. She said "ew" when she saw my page here. - Robert Scoble

Glen: by the way, I can make such a screen shot for a bunch of different genre's, not just tech. Twitter has far more diversity and has far more flow of all kinds. http://listorious.com 's huge first weekend demonstrates that. - Robert Scoble

Jim: if you don't want just tech, check out http://listorious.com -- what list would you like? In one weekend Twitter got more diversity thanks to lists than FriendFeed did in 18 months. And no "ew" pictures. - Robert Scoble

You still have to come here. It's mandatory - Charlie Anzman

sad one of the best place is going down like this and it is going the way every other social network is "just for fun"....:( - ffcode

Charlie: I do, but now you know why I don't show off FriendFeed at conferences anymore. - Robert Scoble

FriendFeed's still here. Unfortunately when Scoble, FriendFeed's top user goes, so go the users. - Jesse Stay

number of places on the twitter display where you could see an inline discussion: zero. - SuezanneC Baskerville

I follow Scoble, but I'm not going anywhere, Jesse. - Jim in Real Time

Either that, or this just means FriendFeed has gone mainstream, and is no longer just tech users any more ;-) - Jesse Stay

Jesse - Robert left Twitter for quite a while (well, not left, but just had it parroting his FF) and it didn't seem to hurt Twitter any. Robert can't make or break a service all by himself. - Matthew DeVries

I guess I just don't get it. My Facebook connects me with friends I haven't seen in years and relatives I contact rarely. With Facebook, I can keep in touch far better than I ever have in my life. I learn about my cousin in the ICU with pneumonia, and my good friend in Indiana who just had a grandson. The whole format is not compatible with tech discussions; the length restrictions... more... - Glen, Bespectacled Elder

Code junkies best of week: http://friendfeed.com/code-ju... - Bruce Lewis

@Cristo: +3000. @Robert: Change your subscriptions. You just haven't curated your worldview here as much lately. Things change, so must your prism. - AJ Kohn

as usual, Robert's death of FF posts shoot up the charts. get it? - Steve Gillmor

Matthew, see my second comment. I think some of it is that FriendFeed's userbase has changed as well. It's not the tech early adopters any more. I expect with Facebook's acquisition it will become more so that case. - Jesse Stay

My point being this comparison doesn't mean much - Jesse Stay

What is "geek" to you Robert? Because I've been seeing plenty of "geek" posts in the subscriptions and rooms I follow here on FriendFeed. - Itachi

Mehmet: geek is someone talking about technology or talking about building something or excited about using such. Do you see any geek in the friendfeed screen shot? I don't. - Robert Scoble

Agree with Jesse here. - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

Bruce: is that the best example you got? All those items have no discussion! - Robert Scoble

And like Tom's comment [keep looking for comments link on Brizzly] LOL! - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

o.O Louis is pretty geeky. His kids already have Macbooks. - Matthew DeVries

The most active discussions I've seen on FriendFeed lately are only when someone proclaims or laments its decline. Sad but true. - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

Or when Jason holds a live chat. - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

Robert, twitter=no conversation. I'll deal with the 'ew' pictures by simply using the 'hide' button, that's why it's there. You go your way, I'll go mine. It's all good. - Jim in Real Time

do anybody no why Scoble can't just leave us alone. Friendfeed is dying according to him, no need to make it a self fulfilling prophecy. The more you "high profile" users criticize FF the faster folks will leave it. - Gunny doesn't side-hug™

Coding geeks communicate best with code. Neither twitter nor FriendFeed let you indent. So there's going to be more sharing and less conversation for coders. - Bruce Lewis

Robert ,the best of the day are comments and likes on a post ,not content. all the contents from Twitter,blogs,Rss etc are here and its better to get them here or in public groups or in private , I am not sure that on Twitter ppl are acting ,they are just reading same as here - Johni Fisher

agree with Steve Gillmor, users are here but they are doing things way different now than they used to when Scoble was around - ffcode

agree more than 100% that "those" tech talks are just gone - ffcode

You're comparing a hand crafted twitter list to friendfeed's user-generated best-of-day? - Andy Bakun

Gunny, give the guy a break. He feels forced to be on twitter and misses the conversations on FriendFeed. Did you look at the right-hand picture from twitter? No conversation happening there at all. Zero. I can't imagine hanging out there all day. - Bruce Lewis

I skip all the tech anyway. Who says it's "better"? - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed

Cristo: try seeing feed around those times when there when acquisition talks - ffcode

Why can't there be a friendly friend feed and a tech friend feed? Is there no other use for the internet than to talk about the internet? - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed

Tech and coding news is primarily what I look for in FriendFeed, and I find it. Conversation happens, as well as users bumping things up with likes. Subscriptions (friends and rooms) help filter tech content that I want to see. A like is sometimes as good as a comment. - Itachi

and Andy: you are yourself stating what Scoble has been saying all the way twitter is place where you can get your taste now not here anymore - ffcode

Robert- regarding your early early comment- I find it refreshing that FF isn't about tech - anna sauce

+anna, +Glen, and even +cristo - Kamilah Gill

Does Plurk get this much attention about its inevitable death? Now there's a service that could really use the wake-up call. - Mark Trapp

Robert never got infatuated with Plurk, Mark. - Itachi

Robert most of the change is in the place that you decided to open a subject and to post ,I remember 3 months ago your posts here were with tooons of comments and interest and from the day that you are posting your Twitter FAV here, there is not much action ,just think on that ,I like to read your Twitter FAV but I would better have them in a group and get yr posts like in the past - Johni Fisher

Yeah, you're pretty geeky there when you have to search how to make screenshots - KapitanObvious

agree Johni - ffcode

thx ff - Johni Fisher

To be honest, any social network with content governed by who you're subscribed to, and having image media in a feed is going to come up with something you don't like. This is because no one is on topic all the time, especially on Twitter. If you want sanitized feeds from *only* tech experts, geeks and what have you, these sort of services aren't going to cut it for you.... more... - Mo Kargas

I sure like the interaction here, comments, community...this post shot over to Twitter, but there is nothing going on there about it. - Eric Matas

@Eric Yes exactly, to me it looks like a glorified RSS stream from different sources, fundamentally a list of content and that's it. The topics Robert is after may not be present on FF, but the conversation is far more intuitive. - Mo Kargas

"glorified RSS stream"...pretty much sums it up. - Itachi

Hey GUISE, we're forgetting that the list on the right will fail-whale often as twitter never seems to remember how to run their servers. As to the content on the left not being interesting, well...at least I know it's real people who aren't trying to get me to buy into some new brand or some interchangeable tech company that will just be bought by facebook one day and disappear. :) - Jon, the Beartato of '10

I just can't wait for the day that Scoble ditches Twitter for the junk it is. Should give me a good laugh. - Itachi

Twitter has no "ew" pictures because it has no pictures. You can use the fftogo option that turns off media if you want no pictures. - Bruce Lewis

For conversations, friendfeed wins. For tons of blabbers and links, twitter wins. But agreed, activity has gone down heavily on friendfeed. Twitter mania has caught everyone. - Amit

Interesting tech discussions from http://friendfeed.com/paul... are "Think big. Code small" and the ooc one. - Bruce Lewis

One anecdote deserves another. I've posted on FF regularly for 1.5 years. I comment frequently on others' tech posts, but most of my own posts are not strictly tech-angled. This week I asked "FriendFeeders : NEED ADVISE: Best all-around value Netbook today - which one?" and it got 16 LIKES and 20 COMMENTS. The last time one of my posts hit/surpassed that threshold was early August http://friendfeed.com/search... - Micah Wittman

One thing I noticed is no conversations. Just straight links to other sites. Kind of boring. - Todd Hoff

BTW is it possible to stop getting the twitter updates from others on Friendfeed? Slowly I am seeing my friendfeed aggregating only the twitter updates. - Amit

Yeah, you can Amit. Just click "hide" on a tweet you see in FF, and then choose to "hide other items like this one"...and go from there. - Itachi

Robert is just being Robert, always stirring things up! LOL, I really do ♥ you for it though. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

No hatin' on the Vikings here, they try hard :p - Itachi

You know what makes me laugh... People who use FriendFeed in other languages probably don't see this or any of the stuff Robert is interested in... - Johnny Worthington from iPhone

+Johnny W. - Kamilah Gill

BTW... Heaven forbid we actually have fun on a Sunday... Your lawn's that way - Johnny Worthington from iPhone

You're really going to show me Wall Street Journal on your Twitter feed and compare that to Friendfeed's personal interaction? You know better, Robert. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com from iPhone

KapitanObvious++ for the burn. - Andrew C

One of the nice things about Friendfeed is the way you can hide a post like this and not see it ever again. It would be nice to have a way to filter posts from specific people if they contained certain words such as twitter, lists, dead, or friendfeed. :) - SuezanneC Baskerville

Robert GFY dude, seriously. - LANjackal

""glorified RSS stream" - yeah, except my RSS feeds have been culled down to sources that add their own insightful commentary so it's not an endless stream of retweets of _all the same damn links repeated over and over_. That Twitter screenshot looks really information-light once the repeats are filtered out... - Andrew C

FRIEND Feed. - Tad

And this coming from a man who posted this online: http://valleywag.com/assets... :P - Jan Ole Peek

The Friendfeed screenshot shows 222 total interactions in the first three entries. The twitter one shows 14 (and I'm counting the one at the bottom that is cut off). Oh wait, those aren't interactions, those are links to other places. - Andy Bakun

I think Robert is just confusing the point of the site. The name is FRIEND Feed, not interesting feed, useful feed, news feed, etc. This is where I hang out with my friends. - Tad

Robert, you're cool and everything, but sometimes the things you post make me think of you as an arrogant asshole. The beauty in friendfeed is that there are so many different flavors to sample from. There are plenty of sites to go to that are tech heavy if that is what you are looking for. Why bother here if it's not what you want? Move on and shut the fuck up about it. Jesus. - DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE

Amen. - Tad

For someone who doesn't like Friendfeed or thinks Friendfeed doesn't offer as much value as twitter, he sure does post here a lot. - Andy Bakun

This is exactly the kind of post I don't want in my feed. Adjusting my subscriptions now. Sorry Robert, but I gotta block you on Friendfeed. See you on Twitter. - Rodfather

Robert. You are stating the obvious: of course friendfeed is going to decline: there is no more engineering or innovation power behind it! The key question is: "is a friendfeed++ going to reborn as part of facebook and have a much more profound impact?". The jury is still out but knowing the quality of the team I would not bet against it. - Edwin Khodabakchian

I think this post is very rude to the posters in your screenshot, especially the second two. They are sharing themselves and their lives with us. If that doesn't interest you, unsubscribe or hide but to call them out and mock them as 'sad' is, well, sad. FriendFeed is full of people that I enjoy discussing all kinds of topics with, including technology, but they are more than just early... more... - joey

Thank you Joey. I find the screen shot to be particularly offensive considering the tenor of the post. Stop being a jerk Robert. - DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE

Holden: I have removed my Twitter favorites from FriendFeed because of your post and my Twitter account too. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Scoble, you need to clean your Twitter DM's like stat. - Outsanity

@Robert - Just because FriendFeed isn't 90% tech and personal branding posts doesn't mean it doesn't have value. You used to be such a big proponent of lists here and molding your subscriptions so they were full of info but not noise... now that you've neglected your pruning efforts and gone over to Twitter then your feed is full of more noise (to you) than info. It's not FriendFeed's... more... - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Her Lindsay-ness: sorry, so many geeks have left and there are just more interesting information (FOR ME), more interesting conversations (FOR ME), and I'm learning a lot more over on Twitter (ABOUT WHAT I WANT TO LEARN). FriendFeed HAS changed and that's OK! For you. Not for me. And, sorry, I looked at rejiggering my accounts here, but the info just isn't coming here and Twitter is... more... - Robert Scoble

Then go away. What the fuck. Why keep coming back here to make posts about how horrible it is. It just makes you look like more of an asshole than you intend to be I'm sure. Seriously. If you think there is no value in it, then it's kinda counter-productive to keep posting here, right? You act like the guy that graduated high school but keeps coming back hanging out at lunch and during pep rallies. It's a little bit creepy. What is it that you hope to gain by that? - DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE

I agree with Gunny. YOU caused the mass exedus from Friend Feed Robert, by announcing its demise. Let's see what would happen if instead of moaning about its lack of techy feeds, you began promoting it instead. Look on it as an FF experiment. - Sandra Large

I like reading your stuff Rob but yeah --- if you're only going to come here to diss FF, perhaps you should just exit FF completely. Also, it's a FACT that Twitter is inferior to FriendFeed based on communication alone because look...here I am, discussing this topic and others can follow along w/o having to search through random comments and pages [they can even comment easily also! *gasp*!]. FF probably will die eventually, but Twitter was freakin' stillborn. Just a glorified RSS service... - Scott Carmichael

Its all becoming a Robert Scoble 'self fullfilling prophecy' lately on here. You can't have a conversation on Twitter like this, twitter is a newsreel of headline news, that's all its good for, Friend Feed is as its name implies, a feed for friends to discuss anything under the sun, and not just about technical stuff. - Sandra Large

I don't agree that a person who's become dissatisfied with a service should leave. I've often heard change should come from within. With that said, I'm not sure Robert is pushing for positive change. Can it occur? With Zuckerberg calling the shots, maybe not. Maybe he owns every idea that the FFounders will ever have for the next few yrs, keeping those changes for Zuck's baby. Maybe FF will improve, & maybe the techies who were drowned out on Twitter will find they can be seen & heard here. Who knows? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

My post is up: http://scobleizer.com/2009... - Robert Scoble

Gone mainstream? - Amit Morson

it gone mainstream alright - Fajar Nurdiansyah

You can't blame Robert for the fact that the FF guys sold out AND left the ship more or less rudderless. If they had bothered to figure out even a tiny bit of a PR strategy around the take-over, then things might not have gone downhill so fast, or at all. And, yes, you can filter out all of the emo stuff (nothing wrong with it BTW, but that can be had from your IRL friends on Facebook)... more... - Alex Schleber

Robert: accepting the accuracy of observations about the amount of interesting conversations from your perspective, there still remains a question regarding what could be the cause? while one theory may be a decline in friendfeed activity, another possibility is the decline in your own activity. what evidence can support one hypothesis over the other? - Mike Chelen

methinks a service can go on without an ego? personally i pop back here every now and again for the occasional conversation. i'd prefer more intelligent discussions on here, not just tech related, maybe i'm not following enough people? eh. - Terry O'Fee

+1,000 joey. "emo stuff" that can be "found on Facebook"? LOTS of arrogance on display here from several directions. Alex, I know that you're tempering your statement by saying that there's nothing wrong with "emo stuff", but that's still awfully dismissive. FF is more like a number of simple blogs because the whole world can access the posts. FB is a walled garden, and tends to be way more dumbed-down (except for when I look at the FF people I'm subscribed to in FB). - Kamilah Gill

Hey, guys? Don't feed the troll. - Akiva Moskovitz from BuddyFeed

now you tell us. - Jim in Real Time

Friendfeed never gone..! - ★ Soner Gönül

Well if FriendFeed has nothing else going for it, I can at least read a deep exchange of ideas here as to why it's toast. Perhaps thats why I'm sticking. Btw, slightly off topic, but am I the only one finding Twitter list creation a complete chore compared to doing the same on FriendFeed? - JSLeFanu

I don't see the problem. My pecs dominate your feed. Who can complain about that? - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

LOL @Rasheen™ - Glen, Bespectacled Elder

Rahsheen, it's ok to let the one's own fun part of life intersect one's social media sphere http://friendfeed.com/tad... , but not when it's someone else and it can be used in the wrong context to misappropriate a point. - Micah Wittman

It amazes me how people will continue to use a service just to complain about it. Just STFU and GTFO. - Steve Lowe

Micah, I don't follow what you're saying... - Kamilah Gill

Robert - Just make Twitter fix the 140 character limit thing already! - Matthew DeVries

then it would be a blog or what a tumble log? - ffcode

strange people resist so much even when they know this is it - ffcode

Robert, setting aside your point, your methodology here is insulting. Why? My response is here: http://friendfeed.com/zeigen... - Stephen Mack

Kamilah, fair point. I'll explain without sarcasm. Robert's shower photo was a bit of fun that is fine and doesn't represent the whole of his on- or off-line contribution. Andy's photoshopped photo of Rahsheen doesn't represent the whole of Andy's contribution (which is very much technical, btw) or by extension the community's many contributions through the friendfeed medium. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. - Micah Wittman

friend feed is totally awesome! - Bishal Adhikary

great one man... - Bishal Adhikary

COMMENT 1) "There's a lot more than me here. http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo.... shows lots of things that are getting engagement. - Robert Scoble" http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo... ... COMMENT 2) "You are not following the right people. This is always the problem if FriendFeed isn't working for you. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF" http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo... - Micah Wittman

I just looked, and http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo... still is getting a lot of engagement and there's is stuff to learn there. - Micah Wittman

Robert, I am considered a "geek" by a number of people, but I don't need or want to talk about technology 24/7. I have other interests and I like to see where they connect. I want to see coalescence. I can't get disparate connections always watching or listening to the same track. Even Richard Feynman believed that...as do many others in other "geek" fields. When I was little I happened... more... - Melanie Reed

Robert, are you reading the tech related groups? If you read Best of you are going to get all sorts of stuff as you know. I have lists and saved searches for specific topics and browse them for the likes of tech. Best of it not the best place for tech only (well any single topic). - Kol Tregaskes

I've come to the conclusion that all of Robert's posts must be read with one fact kept in mind. Even when he doesn't say it, his posts are based on the assumption that many/most people want and like what he wants. - Eoghann Irving

Robert, why do you constantly feel the need to shake the death rattle? We are well aware that FF is dying and even more aware that you see it coming. If you really did care about the service you would try to reverse the trend instead of speeding it up. - Jason Williams from iPhone

Robert I joined FF when I saw you singing praises of it on Twitter and have been loving it ever since, you seem to have a lot of interesting stuff to say, and a lot of people follow you. But, you seriously need to stop coming to FriendFeed and doing everything in your considerable power to kill it, and then complain because you are successful in doing that. Twitter is for people who like shouting through megaphones in a crowd of people shouting through megaphones, FF is for people who like conversations. - Ed Millard

@edmillard ..said the man who only imports one thing into FF, his Twitter account.. seriously though. Scoble can't kill FF because it's already dead, it just doesn't know it yet. And yes, I am still using it for a bit because it makes such a handy searchable archiving/surfacing tool, and for some aspects of the community. But the reality is that FF founder's sold out b/c they were lacking confidence that they could change FF sufficiently/quickly enough to sustain any real growth. - Alex Schleber

So FriendFeed founders gave up and sold out to Zuckerberg more or less for the liquidation value, i.e. for their IP and continued highly-skilled/paid labor for FB. It's that simple. Thinking about it any other way is a fantasy. 5 Stages of Grief... And yes, it pains me to say it. Had high hopes for this platform. I wish they would have found a way to evolve FF where it would have continued to grow, I don't think they were very far off. It's like the gold-miners who gave up 10 ft from the mother lode. - Alex Schleber

Alex you are mistaken, most of my recent posts are from FF and sometimes cross posted to Twitter if they are short and not FF specific. I didn't know the FF etiquette that twitter posts are shunned when I started. Most of my limited time here is spent in comments anyway, since I prefer the conversations to the megaphone. - Ed Millard

@Ed "Twitter is for people who like shouting through megaphones in a crowd of people shouting through megaphones, FF is for people who like conversations." You basically summed up my blog post about this whole thing (http://friendfeed.com/bluecoc...)... - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Lindsey, same concept, yours was thorough, mine was short. I think part of being a geek is we opt for the superior tech, not the popular tech. FB and Twitter are popular but inferior for conversation. I had no interest in them until I found FF recently. Its a problem we geeks are letting Zuckerberg kill the superior tech here with his checkbook. I'm thinking we should launch an open friend feed like directeur is talking about, free of business conflicts. It is the geek thing to do but it would be hard. - Ed Millard

One bad day does not mean it is bad for the whole year :) - ashish

don't you ever get tired of hitting refresh every other minute? - Giancarlo Caparo

LOL, let's see you sort though hundreds of reply of Twitter, shoot a video of that... - Robert Higgins

*yawns* - T. Brent, technopeasant

Sadly, FF has largely become a photo sharing, jokes and food pics sharing site - tech community is gone. - Susan Beebe

Yes, Twitter really has raised the bar in that arena. - Glen, Bespectacled Elder

Glen LOL - Susan Beebe

ZING! I shared a lame joke a few minutes ago, Susan! http://ff.im/aTQG6 I don't feel really bad about it. That's true, many people know me as a developer, but I'm not only that. I'm a jazz/anime/languages... LOVER :) - directeur

If only someone would have told Robert that his feed is his own creation and if he is unhappy there is only one place to look fir the reason. Oh, wait... - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) from iPod

seriously, talk about mis-matched comparisons. This general list is less focused than that built-for-a-purpose list? Well, no offense, but no shit, Sherlock. - Chieze Okoye

Robert Scoble

feedly: @Scobleizer Robert, do you know what there is a version of feedly for Chrome now? I will DM you an invite. - http://twitter.com/feedly...

October 31 from Twitter / Favorites from... - Comment - Like - Share

Susan Beebe, maxilprof, Itachi and Kol Tregaskes liked this

Yes please to an invite too. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

7 more comments

We are going to open the preview to public next week. If you want to test drive the preview before that, please follow @feedly_chrome or email feedly-chrome@devhd.com with scoble in the title and we will send you an invite right away. - Edwin Khodabakchian

The link is in the @feedly_chrome tweet history. Takes no time to find it. - Gabriel

Easy if the Twitter account was public. ;-) - Kol Tregaskes

Thank you, Edwin, I've followed the Twitter account. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Kol: The invite should be in your DM box - Edwin Khodabakchian

Cool, thank you, Edwin. I'm in. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Sorry Kol, I never remember that stuff. The extension is great though, works just as well as the firefox one for me! - Gabriel

Yeah I got an invite... woo hoo - Susan Beebe

Mitchell McKenna

Feedly Gets A New Video/Audio Player - http://blog.feedly.com/2009...

October 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Lizunlong and Edwin Khodabakchian liked this

Someone suggested Feedly update the video/audio player. So Feedly did. That simple. These guys rock. Love the new player - looks like vimeo's - Mitchell McKenna from Bookmarklet

Thanks - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin Khodabakchian

@mattcutts have you seen this? RT @feedly: What does @mattcutts read? http://www.feedly.com/web#exp...

October 22 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Lizunlong liked this

Nice work, Edwin. I found mine as well: http://www.feedly.com/#explor... - Louis Gray

Thanks Louis. Your mix should also be available here http://www.feedly.com/web#exp... (note: this is our first steps outside of the extension word as these pages will load and render even if you do not have the extension installed). I would like to try to invite you for lunch to give you a preview of a couple of other things we are working on. Will send you an email. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Tony, Paradox of FF

Feedly For Chrome « Building Feedly - http://blog.feedly.com/2009...

October 16 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML liked this

"Based on popular demand, we are getting ready to push out a preview of feedly for Google Chrome. If you are an early adopter and would like to test drive the preview, please follow @feedly_chrome. We will start giving out invitations next week." - Tony, Paradox of FF from Bookmarklet

4 more comments

I am having trouble with Feedly today with Firefox. Extension won't work. Do you know anything about it? - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

See-ming. Sorry about that. What problem are you seeing? Google had some authentication issues earlier today. Could you please clear your cookies, restart firefox and try to login again. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Quick responses from developers FTW. - Tony, Paradox of FF

Feedly in Firefox has ben working fine on this end. Earlier Feedly in Chrome was giving me a 400 client error. deleting cookies didn't work. When I uninstalled, then reinstalled the extension it started working fine again. - Tony, Paradox of FF

Oh wait you know what, it's my bad. I've forgotten that I have to start feedly by clicking on the icon on the toolbar. I kept on going to http://feedly.com and was wondering why I am not getting my personalized content. (last time I used feedly was a month ago) so sorry about that! - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

Robert Scoble

Signal. Noise.

October 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Susan Beebe, Luca Perugini, Garin Kilpatrick and 5 other people liked this

Someone complained that I'm only causing noise to come in here. Well, that's interesting. I bring a lot of things in here. http://www.kyte.tv/scobleizer has videos of me this afternoon showing off a new Twitter feature. http://www.building43.com has a ton of videos with interesting geeks showing off cool things. http://scobleizer.blip.tv has new videos with PayPal talking about how developers can get paid in new ways. - Robert Scoble

81 more comments

....... - ybs

But my current favorite thing is all my favorites http://www.twitter.com/scoblei... that come in here from Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Edit the above line to be your "current" favorite thing. :) Note that some people see that as noise. - Louis Gray

Those are all signal. Those alone are more than 6,000 items I've brought in here since Facebook bought FriendFeed. Yet people complain about four items where I complain about FriendFeed's future. - Robert Scoble

++ Louis (and yes, one person's signal is another's noise) - LogEx

Louis, good point, I'm going to switch to using a new Twitter feature next month for those. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert: Don't listen to that noise, use your filter....I love what you bring so bring it on, noise or not!!!! - Owen Greaves

And that's why Scoble makes sense to me. He's crazy but I get him. :) - Louis Gray

I always love when people complain that I'm too noisy. I ALWAYS go and check out their Twitter stream. And ALWAYS I find that their Twitter stream has about 1/1000th the value of Louis Gray's stream and I wonder to myself WTF? - Robert Scoble

And I get Louis! - Robert Scoble

They're not necessarily comparing you to themselves... more likely they are comparing you to the hype of you ;) Plus, it's all subjective anyway. - LogEx

Anyway, this is just my way of telling a certain person who complained about my noise to take his noise someplace else! :-) - Robert Scoble

That's right, tell him which bus to get back on : ) - Owen Greaves

Robert, that "new feature" will be in 2 weeks, according to the dev list :-) - Jesse Stay

LogEx: I'm not so sure it's all that subjective. I'm looking at how people build lists about people and they almost always match how I'd build a list about them too. - Robert Scoble

Hey Jesse, how are you tonite? - Owen Greaves

Doing great, Owen! :-) - Jesse Stay

Humans are awesome pattern recognizers. We LOVE to filter signal from noise. It's one thing we do well. - Robert Scoble

Jesse: I'll believe it when I see all this new stuff ship. Twitter is going to be down for three days when they turn on lists. I think they have absolutely no idea how much they will be used. Already I'm seeing a LOT more fail whales than I've seen last week. - Robert Scoble

I'm really liking LISTS on Twitter truth be told, it will bring heavy usage for sure. - Owen Greaves

Robert, I agree - the new feature I was referring to was retweets though, but even that will go down. I've been with Twitter for too long to expect anything else. - Jesse Stay

Owen: I can't wait for everyone to get on lists. There are some really awesome ones already. - Robert Scoble

Do you guys find RT's valuable? - Owen Greaves

Jesse: yeah, I knew that. But lists is gonna really cause stress on the databases. - Robert Scoble

I'm actually a little ticked - I asked Ryan Sarver directly for access to the lists so I can be testing them for my app and he said they have no control over who gets "chosen". I think it's BS because I know for a fact certain apps are in private beta for it right now. - Jesse Stay

Robert, your stuff definitely generates the most # of comments! Keep it up ;) - Shane

Owen: I do. They are great ways for me to see important stuff that has happened. But the new RT feature coming soon is actually much closer to FriendFeed's "likes." - Robert Scoble

Owen, I have said a few times that I do not find RTs valuable. Yet, with Tweetie making reposting so easy, I have been doing a few myself of late. - Louis Gray

Robert, agreed - it's a new layer to the social graph and those always cause headaches - Jesse Stay

Jesse: I can't wait to see what the search team does with lists. - Robert Scoble

I think Favorites bring more value than RT's, aren't they really the same? - Owen Greaves

Louis: hah! Another place you're behind. :-) Just kidding. - Robert Scoble

/blocks Robert. :) - Louis Gray

Robert, I have some interesting speculation I'm going to write about tonight or tomorrow surrounding lists. Don't believe what Ev said today about "room for both Twitter and Facebook". I think Twitter wants Facebook bad. - Jesse Stay

Owen: NO!!! Favorites are immutable (I can't change them). Old RT's? Have no integrity. Also, old RT's go on your feed. Favorites do not. - Robert Scoble

Jesse: Twitter's lists give Twitter more metadata about EVERYONE than Facebook has. Think about it (I talked about that tonight over on http://www.kyte.tv/scobleizer ). - Robert Scoble

Robert: Gotcha, How do you think LISTS will change Search.Twitter.com? - Owen Greaves

Robert, agreed - I'm hoping Facebook is close to opening up their search soon. - Jesse Stay

Owen: How about "search Tim OReilly's VC list for all mentions of funding in the past month for Gist.com?" Just like you can do on FriendFeed but FAR more complete! - Robert Scoble

Or, even better. Search "all people within two hops of @jesse" for all mentions of Facebook?" Think about THAT search for a while! - Robert Scoble

LOL - Just noise LOL Thanks 4 all the hard work helping us all have better lives After all you are the Scobleizer for much more than just noise - RetiredTeacherD

Robert, keep in mind that Facebook has lists too - just not as public as Twitter's. I'm really hoping they open all that up. (lists *are* available via the Facebook API, btw, just not search) - Jesse Stay

Retired: I do generate a lot of noise, but that's a necessary condition for signal. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert: This would a be a project, do a search for Louis, Robert & Jesse agreeing on something :) - Owen Greaves

Jesse: but lists just aren't as interesting or as easy to use as Twitter's are. - Robert Scoble

Robert, I agree (how's that Owen). Hoping Facebook is working on that, and soon. - Jesse Stay

LOL! I was mocking...I deserved that : ) - Owen Greaves

I'm with Jesse. Lists are a smoke and mirrors beta. Today they are a divider, splitting users into classes. FWIW, like Jesse, I'm a bottom feeder in the underclass. I've said several times Twitter simply doesn't understand what it takes to be an infrastructure utility. Yet they have the balls to say they're becoming one. Based on quotes I saw from Ev speaking wherever he was on stage... more... - Ken Camp

Owen: Surely you jest? :) Mock? hehe - Sheryl

I like lists to a point. What I don't like is once again the devaluing of everyone who isn't on 5 bazillion. It's like the next iteration of SUL. - Sheryl

+5 Sheryl. Exactly. Lists are the next digital divide as much as they are a value added. - Ken Camp

Ken: that is absolutely untrue. Anyway, you haven't even played with lists yet so who the hell are you to make such an assumption? - Robert Scoble

Sheryl: personally it's not how many you're on. You'll always lose that race and so will I. But it's WHAT PEOPLE SAY ABOUT YOU AND WHAT LIST THEY PUT YOU ON. This is HUGE and because you haven't played with it yet you won't be able to get it until you do. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Actually I have played with it. I have lists. :) - Sheryl

I can't play with lists Robert. I'm in the underclass like I said. I have looked at Sheryl's and I stand by what I said. In spades. And would be happy to discuss in depth. Lists have great potential. But they are already the new follower count as well. They are a double-edged sword. I reserve judgement on Twitter's leadership playing with sharp objects. I love Twitter, but their direction and leadership is very much in question in my view, money be damned. - Ken Camp

Oh, sorry, I see Sheryl is on it but Ken is not. Funny, Sheryl put Ken on her list. :-) I still absolutely disagree that this is about splitting users into classes. That's bull and, anyway, if it's a meritocracy that's perfectly fine. I won't have as many followers as Oprah, nor should I. - Robert Scoble

Robert, you are my Oprah - Jesse Stay

Robert: why does the list count or labels people assign to you matter that much? - Edwin Khodabakchian

That's just wrong! - Owen Greaves

Robert: I got wave and invited Ken as well. That's what PARTNER"S do. :) You need to kiss Jesse's ass now! - Sheryl

Robert, perhaps, but you also made my point. You said to Sheryl "you won't be able to get it until you do" and to me "you haven't even played with lists"/ My point is that in the way Twitter management handled this release, they falsely created a digital divide, confirmed by Jesse and I as the underclass. Frankly, I LIKE the fact that two white guys are in the underclass, but that's... more... - Ken Camp

Sheryl: actually Jesse's invite showed up three days after I finally got on. It was Vic Gundotra who fast tracked me. But I kiss Jesse's ass anyway cause it's the thought that counts. - Robert Scoble

+5 Sheryl. And I keep telling people you are scary smart for good reason. There is a reason you are in on every early test. - Ken Camp

ROFL!!! - Jesse Stay

Edwin: labels matter. Why? Because someday you'll be able to search based on lists and all that. THen what list you are on and who put them there really will decide whether your ideas get listened to or not. - Robert Scoble

Sheryl: personally Wave is a big disappointment. Lists, on the other hand, have been quite interesting to build out. - Robert Scoble

Robert - Agreed on Wave. Even in very early release it's very diasppointing. IRC 2.0 - Ken Camp

Robert: Glad you're not above kissing ass. I agree wave is a big disappointment. Partly because it's so FRIGGEN difficult without consistent notifications. No one remembers to look at it for the collaboration. And, too you can already collaborate via google docs and any number of other apps. As for lists, from my perspective my mind isn't made up. I see potential if people would get... more... - Sheryl

Sheryl: the problem is that lists are so hard to make. Believe me we'll get to you sooner or later. :-) - Robert Scoble

And, Sheryl, what kind of lists would you like to be on? - Robert Scoble

Sheryl wants to be on the Elite List : ) You're on mine Sheryl - Owen Greaves

Owen: I don't have lists like "Elite" because that implies a hierarchy. I do have a list called "did something big." People like Steve Wozniak are on it because, well, they did something big. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Ya, Elite does have a bad smell...I'm actually having trouble adding people to my lists tonite - Owen Greaves

Owen: LMAO!!! Sheryl wants to be on the lists of friends :) I'm content, thank you very much. Just making observations. hehe - Sheryl

Sheryl: I was just teasing, I've tried to add you to one of my lists but it's been failing tonite :( - Owen Greaves

I give Robert kudos for his integrity in assessing people and not using words like elite. He and I agree on more than we disagree on, but it's when we disagree that I learn the most from him, even if we still disagree afterwards. For me, that's the biggest value I personally get from Robert. Our different viewpoints. - Ken Camp

Owen: it's failing for me too. Sigh. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I did something big. I met Ken and CAUGHT him. ha! - Sheryl

I did something BIG and lost it, where's my marbles ?// - Owen Greaves

Owen: you're doing something wrong. haha! (got ya back buddy) Am I the only one who put some people on multiple lists? Also, does anyone know how searchable the lists are? I ask only because people I don;t know, who aren't following me are following my lists. I find that odd without prior knowledge...unless there is a trick I missed. - Sheryl

Sheryl: I put lots of people on multiple lists. There isn't search yet. I'd expect those features to come in future. - Robert Scoble

Robert - All I hear is Signal baby, no noise! (did not read any comments here, too tired) - Susan Beebe from BuddyFeed

Edwin Khodabakchian › Comments