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eggsy › Comments
What’s an Affordable Premium for You? - Prescriptions Blog - NYTimes.com http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...
I'd like someone else to pay for mine, so I support Obamacare
- eggsy
digby points out the good parts of Obama's message on healthcare. http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009...
Must be a short article
- eggsy
I married Iranian girls before their execution | Iran news | Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com/servlet...
This is the sort of pathological sadism wrought by the leaders with whom our president would negotiate.
- eggsy
from Bookmarklet
Personality traits often associated with militant ethnic nationalists: arrogant, bullying, genocidal, megalomaniacal, messianic, paranoid, racist, sadistic, xenophobic.
Ontario Emperor, Morton Fox, Kol Tregaskes and MVB (Grinch of FF) liked this
Highly prone to committing war crimes and atrocities. Contemptuous of civil liberties and human rights. Sociopathic disregard for the rights, interests and feelings of outgroup members.
- Sean McBride
Sean, what do you mean by ethnic in "militant ethnic nationalists"? I see all of those traits you list as applicable to militant nationalists without any ethnic connection. Could you flesh that out a little bit?
- David Wynn
from fftogo
David - militant ethnic nationalism tends to be much more ugly and primitive than non-ethnic and non-religious forms of militant nationalism. Militant ethnic nationalism quickly sinks into genocidal racism; it appeals to the basest and most feral elements of human nature. Nazi Germany is the foremost example to date of militant ethnic nationalism in action.
- Sean McBride
I make a strong effort to block no one on FF, but eggsy finally pushed my patience to the limit. Since eggsy is the 15394th most followed user on FF, not a big loss.
- Sean McBride
Bwaaaa, bwaaa
- eggsy
I'll unblock eggsy as soon as someone can point to some posts of his which contain some substantive thinking.
- Sean McBride
Welcome, realistically | Stephen M. Walt - http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/node...
Meryn Stol, David Wynn and bill giltner liked this
"What is a "realist perspective?" Realists believe that foreign policy should deal with the world as it really is, instead of being based on wishful thinking or ideological pipedreams (see under "Clinton administration"). Realists know that international politics can be a brutal business and states cannot afford to be too trusting, but we also know that states get into serious trouble by exaggerating threats or engaging in foolish foreign adventures (see under "Bush Doctrine"). Realists respect the power of nationalism and understand that other societies will resist outside interference and defend their own interests vigorously. Accordingly, realists believe successful diplomacy requires give-and-take and that advancing one's own interests sometimes requires cooperating with regimes whose values or practices are objectionable if not repellent."
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
True, but hardly profound or even insightful.
- eggsy
Eggsy -- I have seen nothing in your little posts over months now to indicate that you would be able understand a word that Steve Walt writes. He is way out of your league.
- Sean McBride
Once again with the personal attacks. Brilliant repartee.
- eggsy
We have just lived through eight disastrous years of neoconservative rule, in which every realist precept that Walt advocates was repeatedly violated. And now the United States is on the verge of economic collapse and of losing its preeminent superpower status. The Iraq War has played the dominant role in producing this state of affairs.
- Sean McBride
Saying it is so does not make it so.
- eggsy
Eggsy -- are you capable of writing extended, connected paragraphs that develop arguments in a reasonable way and which rely on detailed facts and reliable sources? Examples?
- Sean McBride
David Frum says Palestinian children are 'pretending to be injured' for photographers - http://www.philipweiss.org/mondowe...
bill giltner liked this
It was not David Frum who made that statement.
- eggsy
Neoconservative David Frum yesterday in National Review described as an "excellent comment" this remark by neoconservative Barry Rubin: "And the casualties are disproportionate: Hamas has arranged it that way. If necessary, sympathetic photographers take pictures of children who pretend to be injured, and once they are published in Western newspapers these claims become fact."...
more...
- Sean McBride
similar to madeline albright's statement that the death of 500,000 iraqi children was worth it when she was talking about the strangling of iraq after the first gulf war.
- ernie yacub
Yes -- she clearly endorsed large-scale genocide, and without any significant repercussions. When that happened, I knew that American politics was about to go off the deep end.
- Sean McBride
Israel Revives Hamas (The Nation) - http://news.yahoo.com/s...
ernie yacub and Roberto Bonini liked this
Didn't Israel help to create Hamas in the first place?
- Sean McBride
Sean: By referring to such mindless sources as The Nation and Dennis Kucinich, you marginalize yourself.
- eggsy
Eggsy -- did Israel help to create Hamas or not? What are the facts?
- Sean McBride
If you mean in some existential way, I suppose they did. Other than that, I honestly do not know. But, in any case, it seems the answer must be irrelevant.
- eggsy
Let me give you a hand: a Google search on {hamas mossad} turns up over a half million results, from many diverse and reputable sources which support the assertion that Israel played a key role in creating Hamas. http://www.google.com/search...
- Sean McBride
What do you mean "existential way" and "irrelevant"?
- Sean McBride
And your point is...
- eggsy
"Thanks to the Mossad, Israel's "Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks", the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, Arafat's Fatah Movement for National Liberation as well as the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression and intimidation Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas....
more...
- Sean McBride
Ok. So what?
- eggsy
How much influence does Mossad exert on Hamas through infiltrators? To what degree are neoconservatives and Israel using Hamas as a device and pretext to fan the flames of the Clash of Civilizations?
- Sean McBride
Even if this is a contrivance by Israel (which I think is an inane notion), so what?
- eggsy
didn't know about the connection there - that's interesting, Sean.
- Maryam
Is the claim that the Israeli government bombed American and British facilities with the aim of stirring up conflict between the West and Islam an "inane notion," Eggsy? What say you?
- Sean McBride
Yes.
- eggsy
If you think that is an "inane notion," Eggsy, then why don't you correct this Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... I am very close to blocking you, and I am currently blocking no one. You tend to be an incredible waste of time.
- Sean McBride
Robert Dreyfuss: "Writing in the Washington Post, Palestinian journalist Daoud Kuttab points out that, before the latest crisis, Hamas was in sharp decline. The headline on his thoughtful piece is: "Has Israel Revived Hamas?" He says: "Israel appears to have given new life to the fledging Islamic movement in Palestine.""
- Sean McBride
Sean, why must you always resort to ad hominem attacks? Why do you never answer the questions?
- eggsy
"fledging Isalmic movement in Palastine"!? Please.
- eggsy
there's a pattern here with the kla, al quaeda, hamas, perhaps hezbollah?
- ernie yacub
Ernie - I find it curious that a high Hamas official on NPR the other day denied responsibility for the recent rocket attacks, and blamed the attacks on agents provocateurs. If Hamas was responsible for the attacks, wouldn't it proudly claim responsibility? Something feels off about the current situation in Gaza. The official narrative is not ringing true.
- Sean McBride
Israel needs the cover of rockets and terrorism to distract from its 41-year mission to expand its borders to include East Jerusalem and 40% of the West Bank. Israel is the only mideast entity to not favor the Arab Peace Plan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...) which calls for security and recognition of Israel _within its legal pre-1967 boundaries_ (Hamas favors this). It's about the occupation. stupid! It's not rocket science!
- Mark Szpakowski
if its official it aint true - an axiom for our times?
- ernie yacub
Ernie, add Jundallah (http://bit.ly/pAw9) to those
- Mark Szpakowski
Mark, I get it. :) It's all about building Greater Israel on the American dime, and to hell with the consequences.
- Sean McBride
Official story usually = official lies.
- Sean McBride
On the Gaza Border: Israelis Cheering On the Attacks (Time.com) - http://news.yahoo.com/s...
Victor Ryden, ~C4Chaos, MikeAmundsen and 2 other people liked this
This all makes me so sick with frustration.
- Ladybug Heather
This will help stir up even more hatred against the United States. All Americans should be appalled.
- Sean McBride
Why should we care about who hates us? The important thing is to understand why. The US has been hated by many groups for as long as I've been aware. Blithe appeasement is counter-productive can-kicking.
- eggsy
Most Americans understand that maintaining good relations with the rest of the world is very much in their financial self-interest. Two groups who don't understand this basic common-sensical wisdom: neoconservatives (who are messianic pro-Israel militants) and Christian Zionists (who are messianic pro-Israel militants). They have played leading roles in engineering America's steep decline all across the board.
- Sean McBride
eggsy -- do you have any ethnic or religious stake in Mideast politics?
- Sean McBride
Sean, not just the libcons and zionists, it goes all the way back to the extermination of indigenous peoples here and throughout the americas, africa, asia - war upon war upon war in the name of ?
- ernie yacub
Ernie -- much of the realist foreign policy establishment in the United States has strongly opposed the neoconservative and neoliberal political agenda, notwithstanding the history of racism and genocide all around the world for millennia. The Israel lobby has gotten itself rather out on a limb on these issues. It has been highly conspicuous in promoting military aggression in the Middle East which has had disastrous consequences for the American interest.
- Sean McBride
*facepalm*
- MikeAmundsen
nice one of che, mike
- ernie yacub
Sean - which american interest? the people or their masters? looks to me that the men who pull the strings have had a great interest in having a nuclear armed outpost in the middle east - again, not just the zionists.
- ernie yacub
How do you explain the fact that much of the Bush 41 inner circle, the American intelligence and military establishments, and European governments have opposed the Iraq War and neoconservative policies and schemes in general? John F. Kennedy strongly opposed Israel's drive to acquire nuclear weapons. It's not clear that the American power elite as a whole has been in favor of the policy.
- Sean McBride
This won't work. Israel must plan to invade and dismantle Hamas by force. It's just a slaughter right now.
- Chris Baskind
Sean: If you are asking whether I'm jewish or muslim, I am not. I am an agnostic, born in the USA.
- eggsy
No, I wasn't asking if you are Jewish or Muslim. I asked if you had any ethnic or religious stake in Mideast politics -- that covers a great deal of ethnic and religious ground. I was wondering how you managed to get hooked into the neocon worldview so easily.
- Sean McBride
Sean: please define "ethnic or religious stake in Mideast politics"
- eggsy
this could go on forever, so i'll make it my last, doesn't fit the subject anyway - the "power elite" control gov, media, military, business - if it wasn't in their interest it wouldn't happen, but of course it is, there's big money in war and even more money in the aftermath - hence american (and many other before them) imperial wars since the beginning.
- ernie yacub
Not surprisingly, Sean has not defined his question. I can only surmise that he didn't like the likely answer. Often, Sean resorts to ad hominem attacks rather than honest discussion. He brands anyone who isn't overtly anti-Semitic as a "neo-con", and, for him, that is sufficient to move on.
- eggsy
Ernie -- I don't believe there is a unified power elite; there is strong internal conflict within the Western and American power elite, and especially in recent years, and especially over Mideast policy. I think I mentioned before that Craig Unger is a better informed source on these matters than Noam Chomsky, who tends to be simplistic.
- Sean McBride
eggsy -- an example of a religious stake in Mideast politics: John Hagee or Mike Evans on one side. Or perhaps someone with Lebanese or Syrian Christian roots. The permutations are endless. But these factors are not active for most Americans.
- Sean McBride
Then why did you ask me?
- eggsy
I asked you because you have repeatedly expressed neoconservative viewpoints in an emotional way without providing any rational arguments for your positions. You just did it again: you blew off any concerns about the United States maintaining good relations with the rest of the world while defending Israel's massacre of civilians in Gaza. Where are you coming from on these issues?
- Sean McBride
Honestly, I recall nothing emotional in any thing I've posted today.
- eggsy
Incidentally, there are many in the Arab world who blame Hamas for the current violence. Seek and ye shall find.
- eggsy
Post a link or two to articles describing support for Israel's actions in Gaza by Arab states, European states, Asian states, etc.
- Sean McBride
+5 Sean. -25 Ernie for his dreamy conspiracy theories. If only life were so simple and tidy.
- Anthony Citrano
eggsy - several parties around the world that have criticized the attacks: the Arab world, Britain, China, Egypt, Europe, France, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, the Muslim world, Oxfam International, the Red Cross, the Roman Catholic Church, Russia, Turkey and the United Nations. All the relevant links have already been posted to Friendfeed by many users. Remember: you also thought the Iraq War was a brilliant idea.
- Sean McBride
Please show me where I have ever asserted that the Iraq war was a brilliant idea. Why must you resort to hyperbolic ad hominem attacks, Sean?
- eggsy
Didn't you ridicule William Odom, the former head of the NSA, for arguing that the Iraq War may prove to be the greatest strategic disaster in American history? You didn't support the Iraq War? You opposed it? http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Sean McBride
Subjects I will avoid at all cost engaging on the internet are: Sex, Politics, and Religion. What about YOU?
Ken Stewart | ChangeForge, Hutch Carpenter, Bill Sanders and 6 other people liked this
But Mike, what fun is left then?
- Paola Bonomo
same here...
- mike "glemak" dunn
there is hardly anything left:)
- Igor Poltavskiy
igor/paola: i tend to stick to sports, tech, media, life, family, dogs & vc stuff myself ;)
- mike "glemak" dunn
Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, George Washington, etc. would have taken a different tack if offered the Internet as a tool.
- Sean McBride
Consider this: many people avoided political discussions during the rise of Stalinism, Hitlerism and Maoism. Avoiding politics can be very dangerous indeed. No one is above politics.
- Sean McBride
What tack would they have taken Sean?
- eggsy
Sean,Those guys would have loved the net if it were only accessible to property owning white males.
- Michael Markman
Pamphleteering was the Usenet of the American Revolutionary era. They would have used the Internet to promote the same ideas which gave birth to the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.
- Sean McBride
Religion becomes a topic of necessary discussion when religionists engage in aggressive political action on behalf of their religious agenda. We are all affected. Not to engage is to empower them and suffer the consequences.
- Sean McBride
I'll talk about them all, but expect nothing
- xero
Sean: How is that a *different* tack? What is the religious agenda in the current conflict?
- eggsy
I am not going to be drawn into a political or religious discussion in this thread, eggsy. :) This is a meta-politics and meta-religion topic, if I understand Mike Fruchter correctly. What are the pros and cons of discussing politics, religion and sex on the Internet?
- Sean McBride
better to do than to talk about, no?
- randulo
Talking about them on the Internet is really no different than talking about them in person, the same things will be accomplished (minus fistfights). The Internet discussion should actually be more fruitful due to each party having a chance to create well-defined and thoughtful arguments without the heat of live debate. The downside is a lack of emphasis and emoting.
- xero
I like talking about religion and politics online, but then I like to live dangerously.
- Summer
what i find interesting is how most of the ffeeders i have been following have been avoiding the gaza genocide - from the outside looking in, the discussion here seems much more frivolous than twitter - why is that?
- ernie yacub
There is no "genocide in Gaza".
- Spencer
They've been avoiding the Gaza "situation" because only a very small number of people in the world have any idea what's going on over there. I wouldn't call it a genocide at the moment either, but that's a topic for a different thread. Of the threads I've seen on here and Twitter for the topic, neither are educated or rational.
- xero
Jefferson, Madison, Paine, Adams and their colleagues understood that talking about and debating politics could affect world history in radical ways. The failure to discuss politics always leads to the ascendancy of tyrants and crooks.
- Sean McBride
I would call it a genocide http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Alejandro
Sex, sports, internal job stuff, and topics that have a mob mentality aspect to them. For the most part.
- Mark Trapp
religion, politics, and silly bitchmemes :)
- Jennifer Van Grove
Alejandro: I'm not sure how that thread is an argument for calling this particular incident a genocide... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... But I can see why some are calling it that.
- xero
the article describes what's been happening between the Israelis and the Palestinians since the beginning. that i think it's an argument for calling this a genocide.
- Alejandro
A-Listers.
- Akiva Moskovitz
xero, its not the current assault on the people of #gaza that is, in itself, genocide, it is the occupation, ethnic cleansing, executions, torture, imprisoning 10,000+, denying medical care, equipment, medicine, denying travel to hospitals for birthing - collectively, these constitute the crime of genocide.
- ernie yacub
lol - checked ff on lunch break from snowboarding, see that trolls have invaded good 'ol mike f's thread - love "block" in ff ;)
- mike "glemak" dunn
I have been gone all day. This thread went south. Personally I just don't engage in these subjects online. There is a place for them and they should be discussed, for me it's offline though. My agenda online for the most part is strictly business related. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what anybody said in this thread. People are passionate about these subjects and have the right to be. I just choose not to take part in it online :)
- Mike Fruchter
If I were a revolutionary I'd be discussing politics on line. If I were a proselytizer, I'd be all over religion - but I'm in the tech business so I'm generally with Mike on this one - just trying to stay on topic and not get trollrolled.
- Bill Sanders
Bill, now that's funny trollrolled, HA! BTW happy new years to you and the family.
- Mike Fruchter
New post: re: Marinara Sauce - http://yedda.com/questio...
How long does homemade marinara sauce last in the refrigerator? Topics: food
- Noah David Simon
Unless it's green and fuzzy, it's good to go.
- eggsy
who wants to make a bet that if Israel lets Hamas bomb them from Gaza and just bends over that the world won't do anything. How long does homemade marinara sauce last in the refrigerator? Food for thought.... especially since Yedda is an Israeli company
- Noah David Simon
Is Raising The Fuel Tax To Curb Oil Consumption In Exchange To Tax Relief Elsewhere A Good Idea? - http://sayanythingblog.com/entry...
Raising taxes is rarely a good idea, and a punitive tax is never a good idea.
- eggsy
Ohio TV station: Was Connell crash an accident or murder? - http://rawstory.com/news...
The "Velvet Revolution"?
- eggsy
What Financial Crises Reveal About the Real Nature of Money - http://blog.stealthmode.com/2008...
Nicholas James, Robin Barooah, Ciaoenrico and 7 other people liked this
Interesting, Francine, that you added the descriptive of "jewish" to Madoff. Why did you consider that relevant?
- eggsy
The charities that were destroyed were not about "attachment." Greed begets gambles. It is not for nothing Madoff is called a "confidence man."
- Phil Boiarski
Too often, the concept of money is implied or simply stated as "money = value." A more useful (and technically accurate) concept is "money = motivation." We need more people like you who find motivation outside of money.
- Adam Collins
Hmm. To the extent that value (or motivation) is fungible, then money = value (or motivation). To the extent that fungible things can be traded, it is useful to have an abstract medium of exchange. But not all value and motivation is, in fact, fungible.
- Michael R. Bernstein
I look at it slightly differently. When generating money you control is your intended outcome - you make bad choices. I prefer to focus on the outcome and assume that if I can achieve those, the money part just kinda takes care of itself.
- Brian Roy
Madoff's folly is exactly why spouse-the-investment-manager does not have any discretion over client funds. Every single transaction has to come from them. He may recommend, but no signing privileges. That way there is absolutely no question about where $ is, where it goes.
- Karoli
The Politics of Everyman by John O'Sullivan on National Review / Digital - http://nrd.nationalreview.com/article...
'Which is why the best description of the Bush presidency was formulated almost 100 years ago by the great Canadian humorist Stephen Leacock: “He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse and rode madly off in all directions.”' Read the whole article.
- eggsy
from Bookmarklet
Flickr Improves Contact Management - http://thomashawk.com/2008...
Roney Smith, Mark Douglass, Nick and 19 other people liked this
boring..seriously..why can't companies bundle up there releases with something that is really worthy. I'd love Flickr to revamp their Groups interface and potentially tie it into Yahoo! Groups.
- Randy Ksar
from twhirl
Randy, Flickr is a social network for photography enthusiasts. They aren't going to farm off their social networking functions to some other site.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
I think it's actually a pretty significant improvement for the site. The old way Flickr managed contacts was archaic. It's much easier now to find contacts that you have not reciprocated with etc. It's one more thing to make the site that much stickier and that much more useful. Interesting though that they still won't share with you the negative side to reciprocity (i.e. who is blocking you and who you call a contact who does not reciprocate back).
- Thomas Hawk
Especially since too many people blocking you can get your account deleted on Flickr, it would seem fair that they allow you to know who is blocking you at any given time.
- Thomas Hawk
I also would like to see who of my contacts does not reciprocate. I really don't care on a personal or emotional level, but since Flickr has a limit on non-reciprocal contacts I'd like to delete anyone I added years ago who did not reciprocate and has not published in months. They say this feature was removed because it caused a lot of drama in the beta test (http://tinyurl.com/6cysq6).
- Tom Harrison
I took a curious look at their API documentation to see if this could be accomplished with a third party app. It appears that it could not be done without an expensive multi-query function, or by scraping your contact list and subbing out the reciprocals.
- Tom Harrison
Regardless of anyone's preferences, each program in the MS suite is the best of class, by far.
- eggsy
Their contact system is still a piece of crap. I can't group or tag contacts, and I still can't see any more than their five most recent uploads. Friendfeed - a third party site - offers a vastly superior system for managing flickr contacts than flickr itself. There's something downright screwy about that.
- Eric P
Colin Powell issues a wake up call to the GOP - http://indyhardball.blogspot.com/2008...
MVB (Grinch of FF) liked this
Colin Powell couldn't care less about the GOP, and the truth of this matter is the opposite of his prescription.
- eggsy
What we've learned from the Financial Crash of 2008
Martin Bryant, Alex Scoble, Mathew A. Koeneker and 2 other people liked this
We've learned from the Financial Crash of 2008 that Goldman Sachs is much more powerful than General Motors; that America is ruled by a corrupt plutocracy, not a productive corporatocracy; and that many leading financial and economics experts are con artists and thieves who haven't the slightest idea of what they are talking about with regard to financial and economic policy.
- Sean McBride
The doctrine of Shock Capitalism was affirmed.
- Todd Hoff
that we need to pay attention. we live in one of the few countries where people control at least some element, yet our minds were elsewhere
- Patricia
that financial martial law planning is very advanced and fast
- imran
Nothing. And why should one have expected otherwise?
- eggsy
we've learned that we have all been calling our Visas and Mastercards by the wrong name this ENTIRE time - apparently they are not Credit Cards but Bailout Cards - I never knew and was quite embarrassed to learn I had been saying wrong apparently
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
haha +1 Marco
- Nadine Schaeffer
We might need to ask some questions before we can learn, like, if Citibank is bailed out, and then lays off 53,000 workers, and those workers' taxes were funding the bailout, then...
- tom matrullo
Dearest Google, please stop providing search results that are missing one of my search keywords. If I didn't want to narrow the search to sites that contain that keyword, I wouldn't have, you know, included it to begin with.
''a_a@FF'', Steve C, MVB (Grinch of FF) and 7 other people liked this
Exactly!
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
Google, ironically, is evil.
- eggsy
is there some Boolean thingy that you have to do to make it quit doing that? I agree, I wish it wouldn't do that in the first place
- Kamilah Gill
Kamilah, +keyword +anotherkeyword
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
LSI :)
- directeur
should it worry us that Rush Limbaugh is praising the Clinton nomination for SOS? or is it all about Rush staying on the air?
The comment by Rush isn't what we should worry about. What I worry about, actually, what I wonder about is why anyone thinks Mrs. Clinton is qualified to be SOS? Is it because she ran for POTUS?
- eggsy
Prophesy of economic collapse 'coming true' - environment - 17 November 2008 - New Scientist - http://www.newscientist.com/article...
Hayk H. and Susan Beebe liked this
"Things may seem bad now - with fears of a world recession looming - but they could be set to get much worse. A real-world analysis of a controversial prediction made 30 years ago concludes that economic growth cannot be sustained and we are on track for serious economic collapse this century."
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
Please identify an instance during which a century passed without a "serious economic collapse" having occurred---worldwide.
- eggsy
The question is, what will be the magnitude of the next serious economic collapse. 10 billion or more people trying to consume the dwindling resources of the planet at a ferocious rate could well trigger something apocalyptic in the way of an economic and civilizational collapse.
- Sean McBride
this very post and many like this help driving the economy even further down the road..!
- Hayk H.
Hayk -- but what if these projections are right? Water resources alone are being stretched to the limit to satisfy the demands of 6 billion people.
- Sean McBride
At some point, Hayk, something -anything - needs to be a wake up call for all of us to fight together to make change. Nothing seems to do the trick. A lot of what is going on now has been forecast for years and years. People wouldn't wash the car or head to the mall if the weather said a tornado was coming - it's the same concept here.
- Patricia
@genieyclo, yeah that's not going to work. I can't see how stimulating spending can be effective - at some point, people just aren't going to have the money to spend. Things that aren't put together well fall apart. This has been a long, long time in the making.
- Patricia
On a purely intuitive level it often seems to me that there are way too many people, consuming way too much, generating way too much waste and pollution, and wreaking way too much damage on the planet. It is easy for me to imagine the sudden collapse of human civilization as we know it. It also seems to me that if we were smart, we could manage our way through this critical moment in...
more...
- Sean McBride
Sean, a bit late, sorry. it is true that fresh water becomes scarcer by day. But spreading news about it and continues buzz is not going to solve it. One can argue that it will raise awareness and make people act. This might or might not be true. One thing is sure though. When you say there is no water, many will run and try to get as much as they can for themselves and that will make the available water exhaust even faster than it would otherwise if same people were not told about it. Psychological effect.
- Hayk H.
Patricia, right. Same reason goes on some way explaining why so many still have problems admitting there is global warming despite all the empiric data. Because gradual changes that are not striking our eyes and not having immediate appeal to any of our sense are unconsciously not considered as vital or dramatic. Wakeup call was needed. But wake up call usually makes things worse before and if ever they are to get better, remember!
- Hayk H.
Genieclo, in this case the rule of 30+70 works quite well. 30% facts, 70% hype, anticipation, self-fulfillment prophecy, attribution, exaggerated anxiety which all result in overblown reaction and potentially drastic results. I am all for what Gregory suggests, let things sort themselves out without too much intervention and too much exaggeration.
- Hayk H.
ABC News: Big Three CEOs Flew Private Jets to Plead for Public Funds - http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter...
James Hoang, Ontario Emperor, Tai and 24 other people liked this
The CEOs of the big three automakers flew to the nation's capital yesterday in private luxurious jets to make their case to Washington that the auto industry is running out of cash and needs $25 billion in taxpayer money to avoid bankruptcy. Even as their companies fail, Ford and GM CEOs continue lavish lifestyles. The CEOs of GM, Ford and Chrysler may have told Congress that they will likely go out of business without a bailout yet that has not stopped them from traveling in style, not even First Class is good enough. All three CEOs - Rick Wagoner of GM, Alan Mulally of Ford, and Robert Nardelli of Chrysler - exercised their perks Tuesday by flying in corporate jets to DC. Wagoner flew in GM's $36 million luxury aircraft to tell members of Congress that the company is burning through cash, asking for $10-12 billion for GM alone.
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
I suppose that there aren't very many commercial flights between Detroit and Washington DC huh.
- Thomas Hawk
how apropos.
- Carlos Ayala
They're all three up on CNBC again this morning yammering away and begging for money.
- Thomas Hawk
Well they are busy people after all
- Brian Sullivan
That's really bad politics. Stupid. No sarcasm.
- Dave Winer
Whatever happened to the days when Bill Gates used to actually fly coach. I think any institution getting public dollars in these bailouts should be forced to sell their private jets and require all executives to fly coach until the money is paid back.
- Thomas Hawk
To be fair how many fortune 500 CEOs fly commercial? I guess they could have at least jetpooled. Imagine if that jet crashed though?
- gfurry
It's really phenomenal how out of touch the average big company CEO is. Tell me - when you get hired for these positions, do they make you surrender your sense of decency, or is it just a prerequisite for the job?
- Eric P
I have no problem with a Fortune 500 CEO flying their private jet, but I think it's in horribly poor taste to use the jet to fly to Washington DC and beg for $25 billion. There's no reason why these CEOs could not have flown commercial from Detroit to DC. If for no other reason than PR alone, it seems incredibly stupid that they did not.
- Thomas Hawk
A successful, profitable company might deserve these sorts of perks. An unprofitable dying company does not. They should sell these jets immediately.
- Thomas Hawk
The could certainly have flown commercial on this particular trip.
- Dave Winer
Next time go Greyhound. :)
- Morton Fox
@hawk sez "If for no other reason than PR alone, it seems incredibly stupid that they did not." I agree 100% with this sentiment... otoh, if you have a private jet, and you're spending all of this money to maintain it and staff it, isn't it just as wasteful to not use it? it was probably acquired long before this so-called "crisis"... so appear clueless and arrogant... or wasteful, take your pick.
- .LAG liked that
LOL
- Mona Nomura
Screw flying. They should have driven one of their piece of crap cars from Detroit to DC and back. The CEO taking a 24 hour road trip in a Chevy Cobalt would probably do more to fix those companies than $25 billion ever could.
- Eric P
I guarantee you, even with the maintenance on the existing jet that it still costs more to fly that thing based on paying the pilot, the fuel, parking it in DC, etc. than it would have been to fly commercial. But the point is that now that times are bad they shouldn't be continuing those sorts of costs at all. They should have sold the jet months ago. They certainly don't help their case when ABC reports stuff like this.
- Thomas Hawk
Maybe the jet is overly luxurious, but flying private makes sense for CEOs. Do you really want these guys waiting in terminals? It's just not a good use of their time. That said, I don't think congress should give them a dime.
- graham mudd
They're not hurting enough that they couldn't afford to give their execs performance bonuses this year. After all, driving their companies into the ground is Job 1 it seems.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Warren Buffett used to be a big critic of corporate jets, until he got one himself. He named it "Indefensible." I have no problem with Buffett owning one though. But he's not begging the public for money. Typical showy CEO stuff when PR calls for humility in these cases.
- Thomas Hawk
We have a CEO class that is paid thousands of times the rate their average worker is paid. The ratio has gotten so out of whack that these guys can't even see how this prolifigacy makes them look. Remember, "a change is coming." They don't know the half of it.
- Phil Boiarski
Private jets are very expensive and shouldn't be used unless absolutely necessary (like getting into remote places) but do you really want your over paid CEO wasting his time sitting at the airport or should he be spending his time trying to fix the company?
- gfurry
what did u expect? these folks haven't flown coach in YEARS!
- Don Martelli
from twhirl
gfurry, in the age of smartphones and laptops I'd rather a CEO be capable of working anywhere, including sitting at the airport. If I can do it, so can they.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
I'm sure the thought of flying commercial, or even jet-pooling never ever occurred to them. That's how out of touch they are. I love the idea of the GM guy driving up in a Cobalt though. Sweet irony.
- Dave Roth
They don't even compete with each other enough for one of them to realize he could stand out by flying commercial.
- Dave Winer
I'm generally not a class warfare kind of guy. But the financial crisis has brought out, in stark relief, how completely out of touch the boardrooms of most American companies are with both ordinary people and, well, reality. First you have AIG throwing lavish sales retreats after taking tens of billions in taxpayer money and now these three Bozos taking private jets to beg for money because they are "broke." Is it any wonder that our financial system collapsed?
- Kevin Pedraja
DET > D.C. 523 mi – about 8 hours 47 mins by car. I guess that would give the boys some time to get their story straight if they car pooled
- gfurry
I love this. Hillary Clinton, flying from NY to Chicago to meet with the President-elect, flew commercial. But the CEO of Ford Motor is too busy to fly commercial to come to DC to ask for my money to bail out his company so he can keep his corporate jet? Someone should remind him that the people who are paying for this bailout fly commercial. If he wants our money, I don't give a shit how much time he "wastes" in airports. Geez Louise, get a sense of perspective.
- Dave Winer
I just checked Southwest's website. There are 4 flights a day between Detroit and Baltimore (Baltimore's 40 miles outside of DC). You can get an anytime ticket for $156 each way. I'm sure there were plenty of other direct flights between Detroit and Dulles as well.
- Thomas Hawk
I wonder, Dave, have you excoriated Al Gore for his own lack of perspective in this regard?
- eggsy
"Ford CEO Mulally's corporate jet is a perk included for both he and his wife as part of his employment contract along with a $28 million salary last year. Mulally actually lives in Seattle, not Detroit. The company jet takes him home and back on weekends. "
- Thomas Hawk
Who wants to live in crappy Detroit when you can have the private jet fly you to and from work from Seattle I guess.
- Thomas Hawk
And, although I don't really care how they arrived, I say they should not get any help from taxpayers.
- eggsy
I'm personally looking forward to having my own private jet. It'll be sweet not having to hobnob with all you schleps at the airport.
- Craig Eddy
Thomas, how embarassing. He should just resign. And anyone on his staff who makes more than say $500K a year. And the corporate jets go in the hangar and stay there. The CEO can live in Detroit along with all the other people stuck there by the depression. If he doesn't like it, get the next guy.
- Dave Winer
I'm going to rent a private jet to fly to DC and ask for a bailout. I only cost $28 million a year. And I want my own jet.
- Dave Winer
I'm all for people succeeding and make big money. But when you mismanage your company to the point that you have to go to the gov't for help then you need to feel some pain as well. When I make a bad decision in my business, I feel it. These guys aren't feeling it. They haven't cut their pay, cut their bonuses, trimmed the fat at the executive level. They're still making big dollars,...
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- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
The thing is that there are hundreds of thousands of people and retirees who are going to hurt if the U.S. automakers fail. People who will seriously suffer over this. It is the height of personal irresponsibility for these CEOs to maintain the lavishness of their lifestyles in light of this. The tragedy is that these CEOs won't suffer at all, but their employees and retires will at the hand of their stupidity at flaunting their wealth during a very politically sensitive time for their companies.
- Thomas Hawk
unbelievable. at least show some form of cutback to the public before asking for money. at least look like a beggar.
- Valley
One of the Congresswomen just mentioned the private jet and they totally blew the question off, just mentioning that they are looking to "cut" travel expenses. They should drill these people on that question and they are not.
- Thomas Hawk
Private jets aside. Does everyone really think there is anything the current CEOs could have done that would have prevented this? This is not a one company issue. This isn't even a one industry issue. Were Toyotas sales up or even that last couple months? How about Honda or Mercedes? I am not for the bail out but this wasn't something that a lot of really smart people saw coming a year...
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- gfurry
I wonder if the U.S. automakers failed if we'd finally get rid of those annoying crappy car commercials of the car zooming up and down the winding road with swooshing sounds or the big truck towing a tractor up the giant steel girders. Personally I'd like to see the commercials more like Target with the "You Say Goodbuy and I Say Hello" song.
- Thomas Hawk
Giving Up on God - washingtonpost.com - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...
Hayk H., Donna Mugavero, Eric P and Alejandro liked this
"As Republicans sort out the reasons for their defeat, they likely will overlook or dismiss the gorilla in the pulpit. Three little letters, great big problem: G-O-D. I'm bathing in holy water as I type. To be more specific, the evangelical, right-wing, oogedy-boogedy branch of the GOP is what ails the erstwhile conservative party and will continue to afflict and marginalize its constituents if reckoning doesn't soon cometh. Simply put: Armband religion is killing the Republican Party. And, the truth -- as long as we're setting ourselves free -- is that if one were to eavesdrop on private conversations among the party intelligentsia, one would hear precisely that."
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
.Kathleen Parker [email address 2008=kparker@kparker.com] [category=Washington Post writer]
- Sean McBride
In this regard, I recommend "Human Accomplishment" , a book by Charles Murray. It is pertinent owing to one of its conclusions regarding the types of societies that fostered accomplishment.
- eggsy
Amen
- Alejandro
Preliminary facts and thoughts about Eric Holder - http://www.salon.com/opinion...
Greenwald has, typically, glossed over Holder's involvement in the despicable Clinton pardons. Holder's involvement cannot reasonably be described as peripheral, and included more than just the Rich pardon. So much for his independence.
- eggsy
Interesting -- really. I need to look this up.
- Sean McBride
What is perhaps worse about Holder than lack of independence is that he appears, judging by his past enunciated positions, to have no moral beliefs at the core. That made him perfect for Clinton. How about Obama?
- eggsy
I think that his qualities vastly overwhelm one bad, careless decision he did in a rush on the very last day of the Clinton administration. According to people who have access, this is unlikely to be a problem for the confirmation, not even for the Republicans except a couple of mouthbreathing Neanderthals who are still in the Senate.
- Bora Zivkovic
You can't actually maintain that the pardons were simply hatched on the final day without any preliminary process, can you? Well you can, but it would betray an ignorance of the process, which is actually quite elaborate.
- eggsy
Marc Rich brings us right back to the center of the Israel lobby -- Rich is one of the most powerful members of that lobby, and has close ties to the Israeli government and Mossad. I am curious about this case. I hope it is not yet another AIPAC-controlled appointment. I am not assuming that it is.
- Sean McBride
OK.
- eggsy
Science : When people feel helpless, superstition flourishes - http://groups.yahoo.com/group...
Donna Mugavero, Steven Cains, Chuck LeDuc Díaz and 7 other people liked this
Perhaps this also accounts for why so many neoconservatives earnestly believe that Muslims are on the verge of overthrowing American democracy and installing an Islamic dictatorship.
- Sean McBride
Al - democracy is great. Let's hope we can keep ours.
- Sean McBride
For democracy to function, a majority of the parts have to be working properly. The last 8 years, we've seen what happens when even one of them gets lazy.
- Rick Powell
Rick: under the Bush administration, we have witnessed the collapse of the Congress and the Fourth Estate (the journalistic establishment, the mainstream media). No democracy can survive this state of affairs for very long without lapsing into a fascist dictatorship.
- Sean McBride
And let me add that Obama may well make things worse and continue the policies and practices of the Bush administration. Rahm Emanuel and Hillary Clinton played key roles in gutting the Democratic Party and blocking congressional opposition to Bush 43 and the neoconservatives. Their political faction seems to be seizing control of Obama.
- Sean McBride
that is how allegedly first religions were born...humans had no knowledge whatsoever and felt helpless..that is how pre-civilization had Great Goddesses and Bulls worshiped and all other gods associated with natural phenomena..
- Hayk H.
Ancient religions are in some respects mostly bad science -- attempts to explain causal relations in the world that are grounded in pure ignorance. But they are also useful windows into fundamental human psychology and mental processes. (I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell.)
- Sean McBride
Well said, Sean. We are a pattern-seeking species.
- Donna Mugavero
Gregory- I would say that it's not an innate knowing, but rather an innate longing to be part of something larger, as is the desire for community. Then again, I only subscribe to the rational.
- Donna Mugavero
Gregory, that sounds very poetic, but I'm not exactly sure where you're going with that. I don't consider my skepticism a tragic state of being and it certainly doesn't limit my experience of the world.
- Donna Mugavero
Religion is a way of attempting to gain control of the vastness and confusion of existence. And love is largely the result of DNA, chemistry and circumstance.
- Donna Mugavero
Religion is an expression of the deepest fears, anxieties, needs, wants, desires and hopes of the human race. That is one way to look at it. In the hands of power-mad despots, it is a manipulative instrument of social control. In the Abrahamic tradition, religion often serves as a pretext and excuse to commit genocide, to exterminate entire peoples and nations and steal their land and resources. For Christian Zionists, religion is an inspiration to try to destroy the entire world as soon as possible.
- Sean McBride
True, Sean. Also, show me a terrorist who has no self-professed religious affiliation. Seriously, I can't think of any.
- Donna Mugavero
Gregory - submerging one's ego in cult groupthink is also a characteristic of every violent and aggressive religious movement that has afflicted the human race. The problem is, "religion" means many things to many different people. What religions and religious sects are you referring to?
- Sean McBride
Gregory -- doesn't the religious impulse at its root originate in the human need to explain what is going on the world? And to use those world models, which are usually the product of magical thinking and bad science, to try to control the world? To fend off bad things (destructive forces in nature, social enemies, etc.)? Try reading the Bible, especially the earliest (and most ancient) books, with an eye on that psychological tendency. What do you think?
- Sean McBride
V+ In some ways, Buddhism seems to be the most enlightened, the most advanced and the most futuristic religion, and the one most compatible with science and reason.
- Sean McBride
Donna -- we are a pattern-seeking species, and we are a pattern-imposing and pattern-projecting species. Often our world models are projections of our innate mental structures, about which we are often blithely unconscious. Science and empiricism are an effort to break out of the prison of our unconscious mental projections.
- Sean McBride
"blithely unconscious" is an oxymoron, as "blithely" denotes consciousness. And, as for patterns, the multiverse is itself a pattern, just as Einstein intuited.
- eggsy
Gregory -- I understand where you are coming from. When you mean "ancient," you mean really ancient. :) At its most primal level, religion is grounded in an overpowering sense of the mystery and majesty of the universe. From that fundamental intuition, one can move in both good and bad directions. You are focusing on the positive side; some of us here tend to notice more the negative side of modern religious organizations and movements.
- Sean McBride
Have a bit of fun: "blithely unconscious" http://www.google.com/search... D.H. Lawrence used the expression in The Rainbow, which I read quite a long time ago. Perhaps I lifted the phrase from him. :)
- Sean McBride
So Lawrence made the same error in phraseology. What does that mean?
- eggsy
Gregory -- the most primal intuitions at the heart of religion have produced much of the great art in the world. That's the positive side. But great art transcends the ideological and doctrinal impulses which often disfigure organized religions.
- Sean McBride
That is not an error -- that is a literary device, and an excellent one, like "darkness visible" (from John Milton). "blithely unconscious" = happily ignorant
- Sean McBride
Perhaps eggsy can instruct Lawrence in the art of literature. :)
- Sean McBride
Unconscious and ignorant are essentially distinct from each other. One, indeed, can be blithely ignorant, but not blithely unconscious. Incidentally, "darkness" is not contrary with "visible" in any way.
- eggsy
I could indeed.
- eggsy
From the Free Dictionary: [blithely: 1. Carefree and lighthearted. 2. Lacking or showing a lack of due concern; casual: "spoke with blithe ignorance of the true situation."] "blithe ignorance" -- part of the core definition here -- is quite close to "blithely unconscious." Synonyms for "blithely": gayly, happily, jubilantly, merrily, mirthfully. Joining "blithely" with "ignorant" or "unconscious" creates a somewhat comic mental image.
- Sean McBride
Eggsy -- the main point of an oxymoron is to create an ostensibly illogical or self-contradictory juxtaposition which jars the mind into seeing a deeper truth.
- Sean McBride
Jewish West Bank settlers defy evacuation order (AFP) - http://news.yahoo.com/s...
The settlers control the Israeli government; the Israeli government controls the Israel lobby; the Israel lobby controls the Republican and Democratic Parties. Which means that Barack Obama's Mideast policy will probably be controlled by the same extremists in Israeli society who have dominated the Mideast policy of most preceding American presidents (Carter and Bush 41 are exceptions). Certainly Hillary Clinton has shown not the slightest indication that she dares to defy AIPAC.
- Sean McBride
If the settlers control the gov't., what happened in the Gaza strip settlements?
- eggsy
And what is at the root of the phenomenon? Religious Zionism, Old Testament cultism and Judeo-Christian fascism -- an ideological strain that is radically at odds with American ethnic and religious universalism.
- Sean McBride
Why did Labor permit settlements to grow on the West Bank at even a faster rate than under Likud? Why weren't ALL the settlements in the occupied territories removed decades ago? These ethno-religious zealots basically have acquired control of American Mideast policy, thanks to the role of AIPAC and its extended network in both major political parties.
- Sean McBride
Right on!
- eggsy
Hasbara For Israel - 613: DERSHOWITZ HELPED KEEP CARTER FROM SPEAKING AT DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION - http://jewish1.blogspot.com/2008...
Rob Haas liked this
"In an exclusive Shalom TV interview, Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz revealed that he was among those who convinced Barack Obama to keep Jimmy Carter from addressing the Democratic National Convention. I pushed him very hard to make that decision," Dershowitz explained in a conversation with Mark S. Golub on American Jewry's national cable television network. "Barack Obama had to make a choice between his Jewish supporters and his anti-Israel supporters like Jimmy Carter, and he did not choose Jimmy Carter. And that was an embarrassment for Jimmy Carter and a show of disrespect. And I'm very glad he made that decision. It was a good decision, a wise decision, a moral decision.""
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
The pressures coming to bear on Obama from every side that are driving him far from the program and promises he made last spring and which got him elected.
- Sean McBride
What is "the program"?
- eggsy
WTF? Jimmy Carter isn't "anti-Israel" -- he's just not a supporter of the disenfranchisement campaign of Arab Israelis. That's like saying I'm anti-American because I am opposed to Guantanamo Bay.
- Robert Fischer
Robert -- Jimmy Carter has always been very pro-Israel, and worked hard to achieve a diplomatic solution to the never-ending conflict in the Mideast that is doing great harm to everyone involved, including Israelis. But he has been the target of many vile and vicious attacks by people who share Alan Dershowitz's agenda.
- Sean McBride
The program: end the Iraq War; focus on the American economy; undo the damage that has been done to America's reputation and interests by neoconservatives. He was most assuredly not given the mandate to pursue the same policies of confrontation and conflict in the Middle East that ruined the Bush 43 administration.
- Sean McBride
Interesting question: how many Americans, and American political leaders, have been the targets of attack by pro-Israel activists and militants? What will be the cumulative effect of these attacks down the line? What is the effect of the attacks on the targets? Do the attacks make Americans more or less friendly to Israel?
- Sean McBride
never liked Dershowitz and never liked Carter either..
- Hayk H.
Hayk -- in many ways, Carter was a visionary on both Mideast and energy policy -- way ahead of the curve. If Americans had started addressing the energy issue in a serious way back in the seventies, we wouldn't be in the current fix.
- Sean McBride
Dershowitz: smart guy, like his libertarian turn of mind, but how could it ever be in one's self-interest in the long term to present a face of lacerating ethnic aggression towards the world? And why gloat over one's power over Barack Obama in using him to punish Jimmy Carter? That is the kind of scenario which feeds the worst kind conspiracy thinking.
- Sean McBride
Will Detroit's cash crisis kill the electric car? (Reuters) - http://news.yahoo.com/s...
A.T. liked this
The strongest inclination to eschew new technology occurs when existing technology is cheaper and better. Pretty simple, really the market decides what technology gets adopted, and when.
- eggsy
And a critical mass of Americans decided some time ago that they preferred Asian to American auto technology.
- Sean McBride
What does that factoid have to do with electric cars, Sean?
- eggsy
Have you watched the documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car?" Highly recommended. New technologies need to have an opportunity to compete, not be suppressed by the fat cats who control the older technologies.
- Sean McBride
It was one of the best documentaries I've seen. [Random personal note: I saw it on my return trip from London where all my city traveling was done via the tube.]
- Donna Mugavero
Donna -- yes, indeed.
- Sean McBride
Poll: Most Americans want US to back Israel - http://www.24-7israel.com/2008...
"Two years later, a survey commissioned by the Anti-Defamation League found that 78 percent of Americans believed that Washington should favor neither Israel nor the Palestinians. A July 1, 2008 poll ("World Public Opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict,") conducted by (PIPA) found that 71 percent of Americans believe that we should take neither side in the Israeli-Palestinian...
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- Sean McBride
It would be a lot to wish for that more than 21% of Americans be enlightened.
- eggsy
Generally, Americans are preoccupied with American interests when it comes to foreign conflicts. Citizens of other nations are also preoccupied with the interests of their respective nations. That's human nature.
- Sean McBride
Lieberman keeps chairmanship, regrets comments about Obama - http://rawstory.com/rawrepl...
This was easy to predict: neocons and neolibs (same thing) control both major parties. Lieberman is a made guy, a protected guy. He can get away with trashing his own party and its presidential candidate with zero consequences.
- Sean McBride
Yeah especially when Harry Reid is striving to get a veto-proof majority.
- eggsy
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