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Youssef EL ABASSI › Likes
How to build cheap cloud storage (67 terabyte 4U servers for $7,867) - Backblaze Blog - http://blog.backblaze.com/2009...
chris, Nick Mutton, Marco Willemse and 159 other people liked this
Amazing level of transparency and detail about their custom storage servers. HN discussion at http://news.ycombinator.com/item... (discusses why this is appropriate for backup, but perhaps not generic storage needs)
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
Put me down for two.
- Jason Shellen
45 drives per unit and many units means they must be constantly replacing failed hard drives - just due to the sheer quantity of them in use
- Jacob Old
It wasn't entirely clear to me from the blog post what you have to do to replace a drive. Looks like at minimum you have to remove the unit from the rack, and I don't see any drawer guides or similar to assist with that. And do they have to take the unit offline to replace a single drive?
- Jason Wehmhoener
Geez. Back in 1998, Microsoft was bragging about their 1 TB cloud... :-) Millions of $ then I think.
- Mitchell Tsai
One happy Backblaze customer checking in.
- Russellreno
sounds neat - now what to do with 67 TB of storage...
- Matt Ellsworth
Seriously Matt! Lots and Lots and Lots of video? HD video!
- Rick Cogley
So, they store their data "securely" in Palo Alto? That makes me scared.
- Jonas S Karlsson
Quoted from blog- "Backblaze Storage Pods are building blocks upon which a larger system can be organized that doesn’t allow for a single point of failure." They have indicated an amazing amount of cost savings.
- Wins Fern
Petabyte schmetabyte.
- Rick Cogley
Mitchell: I don't think 1TB was "millions of dollars" in 1998.
- Steve de Mena
Nice idea. Pity that it only supports a HTTPS interface, not surprising at that cost though (the software that runs the filesystems on the NetApp and other devices isn't exactly cheap to write). Anyone see if they quoted transfer speeds? I'm wondering what impact the four SATA cards each with SATA multipliers on them has when it comes to access speeds.
- Russ
Steve: according to http://www.littletechshoppe.com/ns1625... disk cost ~$0.08 / mb in 1998, which comes out to >$800,000 for 1 TB or just over a million bucks in todays dollars. so maybe not millions, but a million!
- Karl Rosaen
Russ: It runs Debian. If you were rolling your own (and they don't sell these units), you could turn on NFS or some other protocol (CIFS, iSCSI). They only use HTTP because it's cloud storage. NFS license is a major expense on NetApp, but all the major Linux distributions can act as NFS servers, CIFS servers, and probably iSCSI targets.
- Andy Dustman
Andy: I know that you could do that on them but it leaves the problem of what to do with the storage. You could merge the 3 volumes into an LVM VG but the performance could become an issue with any load on it. It seems I wasn't the only one to question the performance, while the views of a Sun engineer aren't exactly unbiased it does highlight some of the downsides: http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archive...
- Russ
Russ, great find, thanks.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Fascinating article; but more questions: "In rough terms, every time one of our customers buys a hard drive, Backblaze needs another hard drive." -- so what happens when a drive fails; how much redundancy is there? What happens when a meteorite destroys the whole building; is there off site backup too? (I know this *is* the off-site backup, but still...) I wonder how much data flows in and out over time. Maybe I should just read their website.
- Rob Fisher
Rob: they mention using 15 drive RAID6 volumes that can lose up to 2 drives before failure
- Mike Chelen
The worst part about this cluster design is the fact that I couldn’t shut up about it for the first couple days after finding out about it. It was the solution I proposed to every problem. There were complaints.
- A Mitchell
IMO RAID6 is not that great. Granted, it's highly unlikely to lose 3 drives at the same time, but there's still possibility. Besides, for write-intensive app, parity calculation is quite time-consuming. I personally prefer RAID 10 (striped array of RAID1 pairs). Yes the effective usable space is less than half total capacity, but for backups -- which will sooner or later be used to restore something -- I prefer data integrity over usage efficiency.
- Pandu ● IT Optimizer
from fftogo
IMO RAID6 is not that great. Granted, it's highly unlikely to lose 3 drives at the same time, but there's still possibility. Besides, for write-intensive app, parity calculation is quite time-consuming. I personally prefer RAID 10 (striped array of RAID1 pairs). Yes the effective usable space is less than half total capacity, but for backups -- which will sooner or later be used to restore something -- I prefer data integrity over usage efficiency.
- Pandu ● IT Optimizer
from fftogo
Un client français aujorud'hui au bureau, en voyant mon iPhone il dit : attention, ca explose de plus en plus ces trucs là...
Youssef EL ABASSI and Veille eMouaten liked this
FB buying FF is bad news for FF users.
Youssef EL ABASSI, Yinka, stanjourdan and 199 other people liked this
Agree totally Dave
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Why do you think so Dave?
- Tim Akinbo
10000% agree, its dreadul and the big boys like Leo and Scoble cant seem to see it!
- Mark
Leo laporte says "This is a big step toward an open Facebook. This has been their goal all along: a distributed Facebook." What a Crock of SHITE
- Mark
They bought the people!
- Mark
yeah... but it is also a smart move, they got the team..
- Rob Sellen :o)
I'm trying to give the FF team the benefit of the doubt...but I'm having a hard time with it as well.
- Ken Kennedy
Born to be sold, we were used to say in the new economy era.
- Federico Bolsoman
They bought the people. We Stick with that. FF guys are Smart/fast and have deep Google knowledge
- Marco Massarotto
from iPhone
Woah. I step away from the computer for a couple hours and this is what happens?
- Travis B. Hartwell
I agree an independent Friendfeed might be preferable for we few brave FF users. But the writing was on the wall. For most users it's Twitter or Facebook or nothing at all. Aligning with Facebook is smart long term thinking if FB is planning to open up as I am convinced they are.
- Leo Laporte
from BuddyFeed
Let's hope that FB doesn't block people from using the 'competeition' while on FF.
- shelter watch
Seems everything's headed for an autumn war Facebook <> Google Wave
- Jordi Soler
hmm, an open, new version of FB that uses all of what makes FF great would be nice.
- Dusty Edenfield
Leo's got the right idea, and independence is a myth
- Steve Gillmor
Well, how could it possibly be a good thing?
- Fleagle
Agree, I'm not a Facebook fan although I try but.. I'd definitely take FF over FB anyday.
- Sharon Dexter
I prefer a FriendFeed folded into Facebook versus a FriendFeed that quietly fades away, which is the direction this was going.
- Mike Doeff
Totally agree - facebook is so tedious and slow. FF is wonderful.
- Zphotogal
+1 mike
- Riaz Kanani
We imagine FB with the SEO juice of FF, thus intercepting search traffic...
- Marco Massarotto
from iPhone
I can certainly see the best ideas from FF being folded into FB but not sure what that says about the future of this site and the data it contains
- Keith Harrison
Except for the whole FriendFeed dying slowly in the obscure ghetto of the digirati part. As Mike said, FF in FB is better than no FF at all. FriendFeed users are far better off having it than watching it its gradual anemia grow worse and worse until one day it vanishes.
- Curtis Schweitzer
While this may never happen, consider it a possibility - your entire FB feed now available in FF.
- Tim Akinbo
It is really hard to see how FB will do more than incorporate staff and ideas from FF. FriendFeed's design of being a very open aggregator is very different than FB's walled garden ethic. I also think part of what attracted me to prefer FF over FB is the clean interface, as opposed to FB fire-in-a-bordello presentation style. I hope FB really listens on the UI side and not just on the aggregator side, or works just mines out the staff.
- David Lounsbury
This is a good thing for FF and FB both. This will lead to a more open FB and steal Twitter's thunder.
- Tim
"the writing on the wall?" ... that's just hyperbole, Leo. Paul Buchheit himself said in his interview w/ Scoble that they could have kept the service alive "for years"...there was no financial issue forcing this, like tr.im or something. And while I suppose there are those that believe the most popular site/music/art/people are always the best, I think that's both a shallow way of...
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- Ken Kennedy
Like 4 Ken
- Marco Massarotto
from iPhone
What I care about most is having a Facebook profile that is *actually* public, viewable by non-users.
- Andrew Roche
I definitely DONT LIKE IT grmphhh !
- laetSgo
@andrew that's one thing FF team is very good at: climbing Google :)
- Marco Massarotto
from iPhone
DOnt like it either. I'm off to a self hosted http://sweetcron.com/ or wait for a http://kakuteru.com/ invite.
- Mario Valente
i'll agree to wait this one out before being totally devastated about Facebook buying FriendFeed
- Chris Heath
Let's leave "en masse"
- Giorgio Burlini
from iPhone
Facebook is banned from my work computer.
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Live *open* BadHair podcast in 8 minutes. (347) 843-4661. Call in if you have a comment or question re FB/FF. Starts in 3 minutes.
- Dave Winer
Wait and see ...
- Kate Foy
It means you'll have to share. wahhhhh
- Andrew Smith
I think it is a bad idea. I don't like to use Facebook except for frivolous reasons. FF has been good for reliable information. I suppose I'll stop using it so much now. We'll see.
- Barbara K. Iverson
I want to see where this is going but definitely my favorite social site just got folded into my least favorite.
- Braden Douglass
It depends entirely on what direction FF would have taken next (and what direction it will take Dave). Think most of us that have been around FF since almost the start (when it was a MUCH smaller place) miss that but this actually might be a good thing.
- Charlie Anzman
Agreed if they lose the FF interface.
- Wei-Yen Tan
If we put all our faith into a single platform or a single solution [Twitter/FB/Goog] then we lose touch with people, processes and where history is taking us. In this case, we’re headed more in the direction of where .tel and Identi.ca are stumbling, consciously or not: towards a non-web-centric, permission-based polycephalous set of systems, where discussions and messaging transpire...
more...
- A Mitchell
Google Wave is coming to replace all this stuff. And Google Reader will get more social features including item recommendations through comparing users likes, and so Google will win this. Good time to sell.
- Charbax
Interesting convo we had there dave, thanks for letting us call in and participate.
- Chris Heath
But the real question is who will take over who? Isn't there a possibility that FriendFeed will takeover Facebook! I hope FB make it work as I like the idea of FF but it doesn't have the critical mass of people talking about what I am interested in!
- Phillip Molly Malone
I agree it's probably bad news for FF users.FF has reliable info. I don't want it to become chatter.
- Leigh Marriner
I'll admit to being a recent convert to FF but it was the best social site I have used yet (and I have used them all). I am sorry to see it lose it's independence. This will not end well for FF groupies. But my reading of the tea leaves is that FF options as a standalone service were not good. I guess this is a sign of a maturing market. Can a Larry Ellison acquisition be far behind?
- Michael Liss
simply but clear
- Gioia Feliziani
I agree with Dave's original assertion. I'm struggling to imagine the value Facebook could add to FriendFeed, and I can certainly imagine the downsides. Having an aggregator that sits independently on top of the commercial pile, while fleeting as a free service, is a valuable one.
- Allred
disagree.
- Gus
I have my suspicions too. But Facebook have been wanting to open up more for some time (e.g., they're eliminating regional networks), and I'm guessing they see FF as the key. I'm betting they'll fuse the two services soon. But let's hope they use FF to improve FB. But there's always a big chance FB will ruin FF. Stay tuned...
- Dennis Jernberg
+1 for A Mitchell's insights. If tr.im and FF have taught us anything, it's that no matter how many open api's there are, a closed platform is still a closed platform, and it can disappear overnight. We need a decentralized yet federated way to do all that FF did (and more). If it's not decentralized, we don't have redundancy. if it's not federated, we lose community an conversation.
- Don Faulkner
from BuddyFeed
another +1, Don and A Mitchell. I just finished a blog post along almost exactly the same lines, Don...decentralization and federation are both key. Good news is, this is historically how things go...nerds only, then mainstream joins, but centralized (think AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy...services and email that couldn't talk to each other). As the systems mature, then value of decentralization becomes apparent. This week could actually be an important milestone in speeding up that process *here's to hoping...*.
- Ken Kennedy
But Facebook buying friendfeed is great news for the 250+ million fb users! (And most ff users have fb :)
- Garin Kilpatrick
It would have been better (slightly) if they were acquired by Twitter. I'm not a Twitter fan, but I think FF would bring more to twitter, it would be a better fit and the users and the interface would have a better chance at "integration"
- Mario Valente
I've read its good for FF, it's bad for FF. It's better than being sold to google, it's better than being sold to twitter. Myriad variations on a theme, which leads me to conclude we haven't got a clue what the future will bring.
- Mark
FB will better integrate FF than Google or others ever would -- one hopes. let's see what happens and go from there. Good news is that it will generate a ton of news for you peeps to report on.
- Gavin Adams
It's simply time for a distributed story for this type of application. You shouldn't need to rely on any providers who can be down or might be bought.
- Christian Scholz
"Google Wave is coming to replace all this stuff." And lock you into yet another platform owned by one company.
- Ian Betteridge
@Ian...Wave is a federated, decentralized, (to be) open-sourced solution. It's complicated, but it's at worst an architecture lock-in (ie, it might be hard to move a large corpus of Wave-annotated data out of the Wave infrastructure). Unless Google is pulling a flat-out lying fast one...there won't be any reason why you can't run your "own" instance of Wave and connect to the rest of the Net. So not standard company lock-in.
- Ken Kennedy
Ken, to be honest, I'll believe it when I see companies other than Google taking the code and running an equivalent service. Flat out lying? No, probably not. But "only able to do something useful if you're connected to Google in some way"? Probably.
- Ian Betteridge
@Ian, I hear ya, but I've read enough of the technical specs to lay my money on the other side of that bet.
- Ken Kennedy
Really? I think the old Jaiku community would disagree with you on that. And the people who stored their bookmarks in Google Bookmarks, too.
- Ian Betteridge
why?
- Thomas Power
Sorry - I meant Google Browser Sync rather than Google Bookmarks. One is dead, the other alive and well(ish). But the point is that Google has a track record of killing or abandoning services when it suits.
- Ian Betteridge
True, Ian. Google's "do no evil" doesn't keep them from killing things that aren't panning out for their world domination strategy. They're marginally more saintly than Facebook.
- Sean Gallagher
Is it because of the Facebook ad approach that Dave W and Scoble are looking to jump ship on FriendFeed?
- Sean Gallagher
Sean: I'm not jumping ship. But I will follow early adopters wherever they go.
- Robert Scoble
Or Google Notebook. Even given that and Jaiku, though, which did do a blow to my faith in Google, I would rather a Google-FriendFeed than a Facebook-FriendFeed. Mostly because I think they'd let it do its own thing rather than assimilate it. They left YouTube pretty well alone. Oh well.
- Jandy
disagree with FF and LI nxt year bottled up inside Facebook this forces Google MS and Apple to get seriously social and start playing rather than just watching. Google-Twitter, Apple-Facebook versus Microsoft-Bing now that's a battle I want to (socially) watch with all you guys. Oh what fun. Can't wait.
- Thomas Power
I'm not sure Facebook or FriendFeed are entities whose well-being I value so highly; users, I care about, and having FriendFeed developper work their magic, their talent and their stand for open standard to benefit 300M people sounds more important to me then having them spend more time tailoring the digerati's private network. I'm far for believing you can't improve FriendFeed, but I'd...
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- Bertil Hatt
@Bertil_Hatt: if there's one thing that FriendFeed isn't it's a private network. Facebook is the one who, on the other hand, operates like a "walled garden" or a private condo.
- Miguel Caetano
Only if you believe the FF has a sustainable business model?
- Gary Walter (gwalter)
FF is F'ed
- Shivanand Velmurugan
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