Sharpie pens, 5x8 writing pads, blank index cards, metal ruler, mini post-its, Swingline 747 stapler (red, if available), mini mirror for monitor.
- caj needs a haircut
Syrian President Bashar Assad’s brutal regime may count on its Russian and Chinese apologists on the United Nations Security Council, and on Iranian friends who are lurking in the weeds. But its prospects of crushing the Arab Spring revolt against 40 years of Assad family rule grow dimmer by the day. It isn’t for lack of trying. UN human rights chief Navi Pillay has just accused the Assad regime of “approval or complicity” in horrific crimes as troops target homes, hospitals and schools in Damascus, Homs, Aleppo, Idlib, Deraa, Rastan and other cities where the paving stones have run red with blood. Credible estimates now put the toll at 7,000 and counting. Yet for all that, Assad is no closer to reimposing his will in the face of fierce resistance. His house of cards is tottering. The nation of 23 million is stumbling toward civil war. If Assad and his Alawite clan had hoped to turn a corner when Russia and China cynically vetoed a Feb. 4 UN resolution calling on him to bow out and...
more...
- Eric Logan
from Bookmarklet
Can life be built with an alien biochemistry? Scientists are currently building alternative kinds of genetic codes, and showing how they can evolve. While scientists say the laws of physics and chemistry might favor carbon-based life resembling ours, life could exist in more diverse forms, if it included a code-carrying system like DNA.
- Eric Logan
from Bookmarklet
"Atheism in America" Godlessness is the last big taboo in the US, where non-believers face discrimination and isolation http://on.ft.com/xftE79 ~ “I’ve been told things like ‘I hope you have an accident, die and go to hell.’ So that’s what I’ve been up against.”
"Psychotherapist Marlene Winell, who practises in Berkeley, California, specialises in “recovery from harmful religion” and advocates religious trauma syndrome as a psychological diagnosis. “There are so many places in the US that are just saturated with religion. Everything is interwoven – their families, their schools, their business – so that if you were not part of the club, part of the group, you get ostracised and people go through really horrible experiences of not belonging any more.” If that sounds like the experience of leaving a cult, perhaps that’s because, as Winell argues, “in its raw form, fundamentalist Christianity that believes that the Bible is the word of God is basically a giant cult.”
- The Real sofarsoShawn
From the outside, keeping your views to yourself may not seem such a problem. But this is only if you think that it’s easy to live hiding who you really are from almost everyone around you, even close family. Take Matt Elder, who lives in Festus, Missouri (pop. 11,602). When I met him in a downtown St Louis diner, he came across as a cheerful, friendly guy, not someone living under a...
more...
- The Real sofarsoShawn
Data backs up anecdote. A now famous University of Minnesota study concluded that Americans ranked atheists lower than Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society”. Nearly 48 per cent said they “would disapprove if my child wanted to marry a member of this group” (many more than the next most unpopular category,...
more...
- The Real sofarsoShawn
That's an interesting reaction. I wonder how that would look under a post about about oppression of e.g. gay people.
- Eivind
Religion is a choice. Being gay isn't. It's kind of rude that you'd try to pair the two.
- Akiva
I know you think it's a choice, but it really isn't. The best I can do is to choose to pretend to believe in your gods.
- Eivind
That's absolutely ridiculous. You really believe that religion is genetic?
- Akiva
I don't know what role genetics play in people's religiosity. Why's that relevant? If I close my eyes and try really hard I still won't believe that you're one of the only real god's chosen people.
- Eivind
You don't know what role genetics play in religion yet you're sure it's not a choice?
- Akiva
I know I can't decide to suddenly believe in one or more of the proposed gods. You don't know what role genetics play in sexual orientation.
- Eivind
So you also think that homosexuality is a choice?
- Akiva
Eivind, perhaps you can't, but atheists and agnostics do every day through conversion. That is their choice.
- Kelli H.
Answer the question. Erase the 'also' if it makes you feel more comfortable. Do you believe that homosexuality is a choice?
- Akiva
If religion isn't a choice, doesn't that suggests atheists shouldn't make fun of theists either?
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
I don't think homosexuality is a choice, Akiva. Victor, ...
- Eivind
I don't think either side should make fun of the other.
- Stephen Mack
from iPhone
Why do you think that religion is not a choice then?
- Akiva
I think religion is a choice. People pick and choose those all the time. An atheist, at least this atheist, can't just suddenly decide he now believes in one or more gods, though.
- Eivind
But you earlier typed that religion isn't a choice. You typed specifically 'I know you think it's a choice, but it really isn't.' Can you explain that?
- Akiva
The data seem to show that most people tend to stick to the religion they grew up with, or at least to something similar. Radical conversions aren't common.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
That's not essential to this conversation, Victor. I'm interested in Eivind particularly. I'm a Jewish Buddhist who was raised Catholic because his parents converted before I was born. I have a particularly unique view.
- Akiva
I didn't read your comment carefully enough, Akiva.
- Eivind
You're still not answering the question, Eivind.
- Akiva
I did. I explained why I answered the way I did.
- Eivind
Victor, you're wrong. You know what they say about statistics. I value Eivind more than that. I refuse to denigrate him. I want to know what HE thinks. I don't care what statistics say.
- Akiva
I am not sure. I can't rule out the possibility that genetics play a part.
- Eivind
Or are you admitting that Jews are a race?
- Akiva
It's clearly hereditary. Which is not the same as genetic. But there are structures in the brain that seem to be associated with strength of spiritual belief.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
So it's hereditary but not genetic? Jews are a race but they're not a race?
- Akiva
How can you explain that I'm not Catholic?
- Akiva
Akiva, I don't understand your questions.
- Eivind
Don't act dumb because it's convenient, Eivind. It's unbecoming of someone of your intelligence. Answer. The fucking. Question.
- Akiva
There aren't specific genetic loci that you could look at and say this person belongs to X race. I'm of the opinion that race is more of a cultural concept than a biological concept.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
Victor, do you think that homosexuality is a choice?
- Akiva
Akiva, I don't think homosexuality is a choice. I think you were right the first time when you pointed out that the discussion regarding sexuality doesn't cleanly map to the discussion regarding theism/atheism
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
Thank you. Religion IS a choice. The pressure of parents is a huge thing. It's unbelievably stressful. I refuse to impress my beliefs on my kids. I want them to do what I did, figure it out on their own. I'll support them in their choices regardless of how it might be opposite of I believe. I wonder if Eivind would do the same.
- Akiva
Atheism isn't a choice. I didn't think it would be cool to be the only person I knew that didn't believe in God. I didn't think it would be great to be different from my friends in a way they would never accept. It was a realization. I realized none of it made sense and the questions I had couldn't be answered. I realized I didn't believe. I can't choose to believe again. Choice and genetics aren't the only two options here.
- <3Heather<3
Heather, you really believe that your atheism wasn't choice? That's physically genetic?
- Akiva
I'd guess nuetral point would be "community model" your family friends and larger aquantances religious choice. Your reaction as you find your place on the"religion continuum" would be the question. Is it genetics, education, or...?
- WarLord
The word I believe best describes it, is the word used in my post. If you read it you would know it. Or is reading my post an attempting to understand it less desirable then asking me leading questions?
- <3Heather<3
Jemm, often yes. There are atheists, people who simply don't believe in a deity. Then there are atheists who are proselytizers, who believe it is their job to convert people. I'm not down with anyone who thinks they are in a position to dominate other people.
- Akiva
Heather, I'm honestly curious. Do you really want to challenge people rather than educate them? I may have missed your point. I'm simply interested. I value people who have opposing viewpoints. Either you want to help me or you don't.
- Akiva
@Akiva: I agree with that. I was only observing the way of thinking, not how the people act - religious or not. I don't approve of forcing anything, either.
- Jemm
I believe religion and atheism are choices, and that a good number of people don't realize they've made a choice because they've been indoctrinated since early childhood. Those folx have chosen to go along with their families', friends', community's beliefs. I think that the hate & conflict between religions, and between the religious & atheists, is a big part of what has turned me off when it comes to organized religion in general.
- Starmama
from FFHound(roid)!
No, you didn't. You know it. You're smarter than that. I'll repeat it: Do you believe that your realization is somehow more valuable than other people's realizations?
- Akiva
That's rude. I'm honestly curious about your opinion, I've expressed nothing but respect for it. And you've come back at me as a jerk. I just wanted to understand you.
- Akiva
Oh I'm sorry, I misread your respect for snark and condescension.
- <3Heather<3
Can you prove that? Can you show me one comment I've made toward you that was snarky or condescending?
- Akiva
I said I misread you, you know the same way you snapped at me before realizing you misread me.
- <3Heather<3
And I admitted that in a kind way, deleted my comment, and essentially apologized for it. Then after that, you capitalized on my mistake. I think even your apology was based in sarcasm. I know you don't like me and honestly I don't care. But I try to treat you well. You deserve better than what I do. And I'm sorry about that. Truly.
- Akiva
Listen Akiva, I'm really sorry if you're being a polite gentleman and I'm taking it all wrong. I'm sorry if you're honestly trying to gain understanding and insight into the mind of an atheist. I love knowledge and I have a need to understand people too. I'm also not refreshing the page, I'm intently following the conversation as it happens. If that's caused problems, I'm sorry for that...
more...
- <3Heather<3
Akiva, is the fucking question about whether Jews are a race or how I feel about homosexuals?
- Eivind
Oh good lord, girl. I don't need you to make me look like a jerk. I'm legendary at that. I'm a total jerk. I hate people. I just think we'd both benefit if we didn't think that we were both out for each other. We don't agree on a lot of things but I absolutely refuse to disrespect you over that. If I didn't surround myself with people who disagree with me, I'd never understand myself.
- Akiva
Hey, Eivind. Welcome back to the conversation! BOTH. I want answers to both.
- Akiva
Thanks for respectfully calling me "girl".
- <3Heather<3
I was being affable! Dammit. You are a girl aren't you? You're a hell of a girl. How is that an insult?
- Akiva
Absolutely not. And if you were offended by it, I'm honestly sorry. It's just ... I dunno. Two of my most used phases are 'old boy' and 'old girl'. WHY YOU GOTTA BE SO DIFFICULT.
- Akiva
I feel about homosexuals as I feel about heterosexuals. Most people are good people, and I don't think sexual preference makes a difference. I think 'race' is a somewhat outdated term, and what we describe as different races often maps better to culture than to actual genetics. There are certainly no well defined genetic borders that separate Jews from the rest of us.
- Eivind
Ha ha remember when Shawn posted a link? OMG.
- Akiva
That's actually quite incorrect, Eivind. Jews have diseases that are specifically linked to them.
- Akiva
You also didn't answer the question. Do you think homosexuality is a choice?
- Akiva
Also, do you think that black people are a culture and not a race? Asians? Indians?
- Akiva
It's quite correct, Akiva. It's all a continuum. There aren't any well defined genetic borders anywhere. This doesn't work the way you seem to think it does.
- Eivind
So you believe that a disease is culture-related?
- Akiva
And you believe that black people are a cultural choice rather than a racial one?
- Akiva
Sure, there are single-gene mutations that have higher incidences in Jewish (specifically, Ashkenazi) populations like Tay-Sachs disease or cystic fibrosis, but you can't look at someone's genome and say, well, they're clearly Jewish.
- Victor Ganata
Akiva, I don't think you understand genetics very well.
- Eivind
Then why is that disease uniquely bonded to Jewish people?
- Akiva
I'm simply asking a question. Why won't you answer it?
- Akiva
Which disease? Tay-Sachs? Or cystic fibrosis? Non-Jews can be born with those conditions as well.
- Victor Ganata
Akiva, for someone trying to gain understanding, you seem to ask very narrow questions instead of letting people tell you what they think. I would imagine if you give people the freedom to express themselves and read it with an open mind, you'll gain much more understanding then selecting specific questions to be answered before moving on.
- <3Heather<3
That's true but Jews are more likely by a huge margin to have Tay-Sachs, for example. By a wide margin.
- Akiva
Heather, I'm just wanting my questions answered. I'm absolutely ready to admit that my questions are wrong. But I always get curious why people refuse to answer questions.
- Akiva
Akiva couldn't that be based on religion or cultural mating selection?
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
There is no one-to-one correspondence between "race" and someone's DNA makeup. There is no "black gene" or "white gene". I don't think it's possible to answer the question you're posing if someone doesn't believe in a biologically-determined concept of race.
- Victor Ganata
Jimminy, possibly. But aren't diseases genetically based? I could be totally wrong on this.
- Akiva
While asking questions is legitimate, accusing others of refusing to answer because they didn't respond with THE answer that you chose you would accept before you even asked the question is nonsensical.
- Chris Topher
I just want ANY answer. The refusal of any answer is suspect.
- Akiva
The problem is that the question is loaded with an unwarranted assumption: a biologically determined concept of race. It's a lot like asking someone when they stopped beating their wife.
- Victor Ganata
Akiva, yes but Tay-Sachs is going to occur more often in a population if for some reason the population limits it's own breeding patterns to members of a population known to carry recessive genetics for Tay-Sachs. *Tay-Sachs could be replaced with other genetic disorders/diseases if you want.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Akiva, do you think European royalty is/was a race? They had hemophilia occurring at an incredibly high rate.
- <3Heather<3
Victor, that's an answer. The lack of an answer? It's suspect. And I'm actually not passive-aggressive. I loathe it. When I ask questions, it's usually because I want to be wrong. I want to be educated. I know I come off as whatever but in reality, I just want to learn.
- Akiva
Heather, I think that's different. And it's insulting. The royals weren't killed because of who they are. I can be killed for who I am. And regardless of Victor's stance in this particular thread, he at one time backed Jewishness as a race. I can be killed for who I am. I didn't choose to be Jewish. It's my heritage. My family was killed in Germany. What does that mean? Why do I get so upset over it?
- Akiva
And why should gays not be allowed to marry? Why should they have been killed as well? And Gypsies?
- Akiva
Anyone can be killed for who they are. And I didn't know death was part of the discussion.
- <3Heather<3
Of course death is part of the conversation. Are you unfamiliar with Jasper, Texas? Are you unfamiliar with women who aren't paid properly because of their gender?
- Akiva
I thought this was about atheism and the discrimination of atheists by theists. I guess I'm on the wrong thread.
- <3Heather<3
Clearly. I want atheists to be treated with the respect that they often don't treat theists. I want atheists to be not afraid, to have equal rights. Atheists can be killed for their convictions. I'm thoroughly shocked at your ignorance. I'm religious yet I am on your side. Good grief.
- Akiva
A lot of things, I think. You have me on your side even though you possibly think I'm an idiot for my beliefs. Yet I'd fight for your beliefs. How does that work?
- Akiva
I think Jimminy's comment here is a valid consideration for the genetic disease factor (and I think Heather's example of the royal family was exactly along those lines): a population that very actively discourages or forbids intermarriage is going to have a higher incidence of particular genetic markers. I think the discussion about culture and race and Judaism is very interesting and...
more...
- joey
I think it came up as part of the discussion as to what characteristics of a person are and aren't a choice.
- Victor Ganata
Against my will, I agree with joey's comment.
- Akiva
Akiva, I deleted my comment, stop bringing it up.
- <3Heather<3
Ah, okay. Thanks, Victor. Well in that case: I don't have a choice about being perceived as Jewish ethnically and discriminated as such at various points in my life (regardless of whether I had been raised with the religion or culture or not) but I also don't have a choice about not being considered 'part of the tribe' or religiously Jewish (without conversion) because my mother was an...
more...
- joey
I missed this ^ ... I'll brb I know what Heather's meaning to say about atheism is thati it's arrived at by a sense of skepticism, whic is not just an unwillingness accept staus quo-ism. Skepticism is a provisional aproach to claims. It is the application of reason, not revelation
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from FFHound!
No one cares about your opinion. This is about me and Heather working out our sexual tension.
- Akiva
Hahahaa this may help Akiva :D (i think you should get Eivind some Vday sweets to charm him, all girls love chocolate <3 ... moving along... Reason applied to any and all ideas - no sacred cows allowed. Skepticism is a method requiring doubt, not a position. When we say we are "skeptical," we mean, that we must see compelling evidence before we believe. Modern skepticism is embodied in the scientific method which is why you find a larger % of atheist scientists than the general populace.
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from FFHound!
Lastly...Jimminy,Victor, & Joey *nods head* yes is right race has no genetic or biological basis. This has been thoroughly debunked. All human beings have the same ancestors from Africa….Darwin :) The physical diversity of today is purely a function of geographical accidents, climates, isolation, & wndering bands. There is simply no such thing beyond the arbitrary & the artificial of...
more...
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from FFHound!
Coming late to a thread makes for interesting reading. The whole "it's either a choice or it's genetic" is not quite a correct starting point though. It's not A or B like that. Anything genetic is not rigid programming, just tendencies/predispositions/higher risk. And many non genetic things are nonetheless defining. In all cases, one can go against ones programming (whether genetic or...
more...
- Iphigenie
Iphigenie speaks in eloquent prose what I have been pondering. Most especially the very last statement: "I see atheists that are as aggressively religious about their beliefs as some of the worst religious bigots"
- Janet-The Bottley Crue
Yeah, ultimately, I think the whole "it's a choice, or it's not" is a false binary. And I have been disgusted by atheists who feel the need to cram their beliefs down other people's throats, but, yeah, they're not necessarily representative, and it certainly doesn't justify persecution.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
It must be tricky in the US where a lot of the social "glue" that's left outside work is religious. People are uncomfortable with atheism, you don't need to say much to make them feel threatened - the more they have given up for their religion, the more threatening you are (same goes for any opinion that requires sacrifice, but religion is the most common). And I also think that some...
more...
- Iphigenie
Here in Europe atheism isn't such a big deal, but I can imagine what it is like, say, in Bible belt. I think more than anything atheists want to separate church from the state and stop things like Creationism/ID being taught at schools at the expense of real science etc. It's fine, if people want to hold on to their beliefs when it's more of personal thing instead of organized.
- Jemm
As an Atheist, my biggest issue is religion being used to create laws...i.e. gay marriage, abortion, birth control, etc.
- Chris Topher
And keeping laws/traditions in place. And as an untouchable topic.
- <3Heather<3
That ^ was one of my major hang ups, sitting through the preaching in my religious instiutions, temple & church. I always wanted to raise my hand and ask questions. Even when I got to ask whom was speaking afterwards it would go something like this: "Why? It is written!" ~ the ol' "parental because I said so" doesn't cut it when you're supposed to be an omniscent "G_d"
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from FFHound!
I think you'll actually find a lot of theists who agree with the goal of preventing this country from becoming a theocracy.
- Victor Ganata
Amen. A theocracy run by anyone besides a deity is not really a theocracy.
- Eric Logan
Yes, people who want to make everything they consider immoral be illegal, and everything they consider moral be compulsory... should be kept as far away from power as possible. Whether they base their sense of morality and values on a god or science.
- Iphigenie
"The Kavli Foundation, based in Oxnard, California, is dedicated to the goals of advancing science for the benefit of humanity and promoting increased public understanding and support for scientists and their work. The Foundation's mission is implemented through an international program of research institutes, professorships, and symposia in the fields of astrophysics, nanoscience, neuroscience, and theoretical physics as well as prizes in the fields of astrophysics, nanoscience, and neuroscience."
- Eric Logan
from Bookmarklet
But but but ... Merka was founded by Jesus himself with the 10 commandments that God help him chisel out by the burning bush!
- Rene, Pro Button Pusher
Rene seems confused, that was Moroni and the golden tablets here in America. Moses and the commandments next to Mount Moriah. Mohammad and a transcriber, the Dome of the rock and the Kaaba. Pay attention there might be a pop quiz. Right now is a good time to learn about the Alawite sect since much is being written presently. Good luck
- Key West
The radical skeptical position is that any knowledge is impossible: You're deluded about your certainty, so that certainty doesn't necessarily have anything to do with reality.
Slain al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden urged his younger children to go live peacefully in the West and get a university education, his brother-in-law said in an interview published Sunday.
- Eric Logan
from Bookmarklet