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ernie yacub › Likes
i really wish friendfeed would change "like" to "share"
Phil Glockner, ian kennedy, Dario Salvelli and 38 other people liked this
yea im just saying change the term that's all..
- Allen Stern
This has come up so many times. But Friendfeed has been resisting it for some reason.
- The Fat Oracle
I wouldn't vote for that change... Maybe an addition. I like to like.
- iTad
tad but how would you differentiate btw the 2? im suggesting share because many times i don't want to say i like something to share it with others - in fact i may very well hate it but to get you to see it i have to say like - it was "cutesy" when friendfeed launched but time for them to change it.
- Allen Stern
But, I like Like.
- Mathew™ aka Youngblood
Allen... But sometimes I don't want 'Share' something, I want to mark my approval of something or 'Like' that it is in my Feed.
- Johnny
I like like
- anna sauce
Matthew - are you saying you like like you that you like the like to which you have shown that you like?
- Allen Stern
Like the idea of having a share link too... one that you could use to share across all filtered list... like when you subscribe... thats would be a neat idea... you could even have it so you choose the list you want to share it with ;o) keep the like..as is, as its on each list seperate. :o) blimey...who am I to give opinions...lol.. been here a week.. but thought it was worth saying... tell me to shut if not lol. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
rob you may talk as much as you like - just look at scoble, he invades every thread and they haven't kicked him off yet!
- Allen Stern
In some ways when you press like you are sharing because you bubbling up the post, on the other hand when you have liked you can reshare the entry so indirectly you are also liking it but putting it a place i.e a room where others could share and hopefully enjoy/find of relevant interest in the future.
- Jason
Allen..scoble is like that everywhere tho... :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
there is a reshare option. I like both
- BEX
I think the verb should be open architecture.
- Dave Winer
agreed. polydimensionality.
- Phil Wolff
I think we need: Like, Share, Dislike, Run away from, Laugh, Smile, Cry, Get Angry, etc. And it shows up as "Chacha102 ran away from this." "Chacha102 got angry from this." "Chacha102 smiled from this." etc
- Tyler (Chacha)
I like like
- Alejandro
"In the English language, the word like has a very flexible range of uses. It can be used as a noun, verb, adverb, adjective, preposition, particle, conjunction, hedge, interjection, and quotative"... it'll do :)
- Johnny
and add a "dislike" or something. Sometimes people post stuff I think is important, but I don't "like" the content (e.g. Mumbai attack, etc)
- Dave Hodson
Gotta be careful of overkill tho eh... :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
just change it to share - thanks!
- Allen Stern
i think adding share and some other options to click would be a nice addition
- (jeff)isageek
I already said it here: http://friendfeed.com/e... but basically, make an additional option of "Flag". All "Likes" would be "Flags", but not all "Flags" would be "Likes".”
- Micah
Any change in the options would change the UI I'm used to, but I guess they could put stuff under More.
- Rah-PM 2012
I've thought a fair bit about the terms of "like" vs "share". There are pros and cons of each. However, when there is some bad news of some sort its very hard to click "like" when you really just want to share it because it's important... as Dave Hodson said.
- Jesse Spaulding
I wish when I "shared" in Google Reader it "liked" the original article in FriendFeed.
- Jesse Stay
I wish I had a robot ;)
- Joe Dawson
I prefer "bump" and "mark", personally... for stuff I wanna pull back to the top for whatever reason, and then totally separate bookmarking, either public or private.
- abacab
I like Like. When I Like something it's not always to share, it's so it shows up in my LIkes/ Comments page so I can read it later. Leave it alone!
- Nicola Quinn
I want more than just like. Just a few more, like 'i sympathize' or 'interesting' or 'user defined.' Like lists, i want to put FF entries into lists instead of users. Yeah you could reshare into private rooms but then you lose conversation and possibly more related links. I'd pay $20 a year for that and an app like Thunderbird with tons of filter abilities.
- sergiooo
I'm happy that its' called 'Like,' I'm "liking" the article not "sharing" the article, the original OP is sharing it. If you want to share it then there is a 'resahre' option for this. I don't agree with having dislike added, let's try and be positive with things instead of adding negatively to a great community here. You would only get people question why you dislike it and cause arguments, I'm not here for this.
- Kol Tregaskes
Besides if you dislike something, then 'hide' it.
- Kol Tregaskes
<3 like
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Funny to read the comments now the like will dominate the world:)
- Gabriel Aldamiz-echevarri
SnapShot of friendfeed.com (rank #2,064), twitter.com (#226), stumbleupon.com (#355) - Compete - http://siteanalytics.compete.com/friendf...
ernie yacub liked this
I felt the trend before I saw the analysis. Quite a few Friendfeeders are migrating much of their activity to Twitter because of the more concise interface and because they don't have time for verbose discussions or an interest in breaking into an environment that is dominated by a few in-grown and self-referential social networks.
- Sean McBride
yes and no, different congregations but all provide useful info, leads, pointers, emerging trends/issues & we learn how best to use them for their own particular strengths and their synergistic possibilities - strength in diversity.
- ernie yacub
i use twitter to follow and comment on real life emergent action in #gaza http://go2.me/wm like codepink, vivapalestina, & galloway breaking the blockade and since this comment goes to my twitter stream i'm conscious of getting the core info in 140
- ernie yacub
breaking #gaza siege following @PamAR @yvonneridley @Kim1811 @georgegalloway @codepinkalert editing ff comment bumps this to the top of my t & ff
- ernie yacub
#racsim What's the connection between religion and homophobia? - http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009...
ernie yacub liked this
You don't need me to tell you that religious people are more likely to be homophobic. But what you might not have thought too hard about is why that should be. Is it that religion makes people homophobic, or is it simply that religion attracts people who are conservative and/or authoritarian - people who also tend to be homophobic? Then again, 'religion' is a pretty broad church. Is all religion linked to homophobia, or is it just specific types?
- Anti-Racism.TV
from Bookmarklet
facebook can't be serious about this shit? not uploading my photos and videos to that site no more :-) http://consumerist.com/5150175...
Dave Winer, bcultral, Igor Poltavskiy and 66 other people liked this
EVIL.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
Oh. Yeah. That sucks.
- Anika
If it was Google, I'd expect a quick retraction... http://friendfeed.com/search... But Facebook seems to be moving the opposite way.
- Tinfoil 2.0
was it so that the content will still be treated in line with the privacy rules you had set? e.g. if I set a photo album to be visible to no-one, would they still be allowed to republish it?
- Davide D'Incau
I removed all my info from Facebook about a year ago. I'm glad I did.
- Paul Grav
The tech geeks and privacy advocates will cry foul about this, and we are. Yet, the rest of the population, that is the majority of Facebook users won't care. And they shouldn't: the probability that this will become an issue for anyone is low. Life goes on.
- Nitesh Dhanjani
nitesh: how about you send me snaps of your family for me to do with as I wish - ? will you buy that ? no. why will " the majority of Facebook users " then ?
- atul abraham
from twhirl
@Atul. Because the majority of facebook users will not be confronted with a situation such as you describe.
- Paul Grav
@Olivier: That is what I was thinking too, but the legal texts are always hard to read for someone not practicing law ;-)
- Davide D'Incau
paul : you still dont get it, FB is going to take any image, text - whatever they please and do with it as they wish. if that doesnt strike you as very wrong, im sorry, you have no clue what you are taling about. FB was supposed to be social networking, they are now behaving like Stalin.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
and to address the point - it IS the majority who will be affected, FB can choose to " own " any and all content, as i see it the majority is already owned.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
@atul. Where have I stated, or even implied, that I believe what Facebook is doing is correct?
- Paul Grav
paul:you did not say that and i didnot assuem you did, but you said the majority wont be " confronted by a situation like .. " thats where your way wrong - it IS the majority - i have friends on FB who struggle to use the site, but they are there cos their friends are there and friends of their friends. they are going to be fed on.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
@atul. To be clear. I think that Facebook can write whatever it wants in its Facebook EULA. Personally, I think the EULA is unnecessarily nasty. Subsequently, I've chosen not to share my info with Facebook. Unless the media draws attention to the nasty parts of the EULA, most Facebook users will be oblivious to it and even if they do become aware of the problems, I doubt the majority of users will take the action that I've taken.
- Paul Grav
paul:you did not say that and i didnot assuem you did, but you said the majority wont be " confronted by a situation like .. " thats where your way wrong - it IS the majority - i have friends on FB who struggle to use the site, but they are there cos their friends are there and friends of their friends. they are going to be fed on.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
im sorry paul, i dont know one person who will allow FB to own pictuers of them with family and friends, just doesnt wash.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
anyway im on CET, its a work day, i have already alerted my network, and now im getting back to other work.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
Very concerning and also not very public to all those Facebook users.. but then they have a loose understanding of copyright issues anyway
- Ian D. Nock
from twhirl
@atul. My point is that most users are not aware of the content of the EULA.
- Paul Grav
i hear you paul, and thats why you need to tell your friends who need to tell theirs and so on. facebook is the new dumb and NASTY.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
I think the only photo I've ever posted to Facebook was one of a woman breastfeeding (goes to check if I've been censored there yet or not), Nope, looks like she's still there: http://www.facebook.com/home...
- Thomas Hawk
It isn't just content you post. Take a look at the definition of "Post", it includes content you may have elsewhere and link to in Facebook. Just posted my analysis to http://webtechlaw.com/what-fa... if you are interested.
- Paul Jacobson
from twhirl
@atul. I mostly ignore things that I don't like, don't agree with. Others can go inform themselves, no skin off my nose if they continue to use Facebook.
- Paul Grav
I don't think terms like this are necessary: http://ourdoings.com/2009-02...
- Bruce Lewis
Thank you for the heads up. I'll be reading through the legalize and most likely removing my content in the next few days.
- Becca
I second you on that too!
- Sampad Swain
Just removed all the content I care about and won't be adding anymore
- Ace
I think people are making the EULA say more than it really does. There is another clause that limits what FB can do with the content - "each of (a) and (b) on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof".
- Brian Milby
Rather than interpret the Facebook ToS, or debate whether Facebook is trustworthy, here's a specific feature request that would seem to meet the privacy needs of users and the stated privacy philosophy of Facebook: Enhance the 'Delete This Photo' feature on Facebook by adding an optional checkbox [x] I own this photo, so please replace it with a placeholder saying 'this photo has been deleted' when anyone tries to look at it (e.g. in an Inbox Message, on a Wall Post, or as part of a third party application)
- Bob Hitching
Techcrunch's summary is that "It's complicated". However, the reality is that it really is not. Facebook can easily delete content upon request (and mark the content no longer available to someone else that sees this). For example, try viewing a deleted user on Flickr. The problem is Facebook does not seem to think that it has any incentive to do so. It's a fairly simple programmatic problem.
- jho
damn i missed this entire thread. i hate lack of bandwidth sometimes and having to use a mobile to access this site. hard to participate. maybe a blackberry client will come from Bret, Paul & Company :-)
- Om Malik
@mblackburn before the zionist terrorists' arrival, the whole region was called 'Palestine' - zionists have no real claim
ernie yacub liked this
FriendFeed - Search - likes:5 photography - http://friendfeed.com/search...
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Rafael Robayna, Anthony Citrano, Ken Kaplan and 57 other people liked this
Want to see some really awesome photos and stories on photography on FriendFeed? Just click the above FF advanced search link. It returns all results for the term photography with 5 likes or more. It's pretty awesome. You can page forward for a long time. This, my friends, is the future of search, social search.
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
wow I didn't know you could do that!
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Ohh, shiny!
- Julie Barrett
from twhirl
I definitely have to play with that advanced search. Very cool
- Martha
The search now picks up this post.
- Russellreno
Thanks, Thomas. I'll bookmark this. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Meta linking 2000 Russell. :), a search link to a search link to a search link, etc.
- Thomas Hawk
Too good to be real
- Moses Kpetigo
10 obscure Linux applications you need to try | 10 Things | TechRepublic.com - http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10thing...
ernie yacub, Tyson Key and Johannes W. liked this
Michael Phelps Should Not Be Sorry | The Cosmic Tap - http://www.cosmictap.com/michael...
ernie yacub, bcultral, ·[▪_▪]· and 10 other people liked this
"Legalness does not automatically confer moralness nor justness. This is especially true when the laws are based entirely on racism, ignorance, lies, hate, and fear - and completely unsupported by the facts."
- Anthony Citrano
Amen to that.
- Jonathon
A corollary "Religiousness does not automatically confer moralness nor justness`.
- Brian Sullivan
Agreed, Brian, but what's up with you and tangents? Are you a geometer? ;)
- Anthony Citrano
No (after looking geometer up to make sure it is not too derogatory ;-) ) the tangent inspired by Jon Stewart last night and probably triggered by Jonathon's "amen" comment.
- Brian Sullivan
Ah, good. :)
- Anthony Citrano
Eh sorta, William. As I say in the article, my view is more like: they are both based on the same thing...
- Anthony Citrano
++Anthony. Everyone remember to follow @HR5843 and get vocal. We need to let everyone know that it is finally *safe* to be pro-legalization. We have active U.S. legislation and the right economic climate to End Prohibition Now. For some of us, this has been a 30 year battle; we've obeyed the dumb laws so we could fight a just cause. We may finally be close to a major breakthrough. Onward!
- michael silverton
5843 is going nowhere fast, but I agree it's a baby step in the right direction. Too bad, though, that something has to be "safe" before people speak up and do the right thing.
- Anthony Citrano
Agree that 5843 is not the goal; but it will Stop The Feds from making random examples out of everyday people. The way to our goal is through 5843, it's the only exploitable crack in the wall. http://hempfacts.blogspot.com/ also pimpin' the friendfeed threads to spread the "safety" message. It's pathetic, but tactically requisite. Keep on, brother!
- michael silverton
I do agree Michael, and support Reps. Frank and Paul on 5843. I am learning as I get older (and, hopefully, a little wiser) that we need to openly welcome things - however marginal - when they will improve current conditions. When younger, I was a real absolutist and would have seen 5843 as weak incrementalism. But I absolutely see the wisdom in it today, and enthusiastically support it.
- Anthony Citrano
Welcome, to The Machine. http://blip.fm/profile...
- michael silverton
More support for the boycott http://current.com/items...
- michael silverton
My article on hyper and deep attention « Media Theory for the 21st Century - http://media08.wordpress.com/2008...
Meryn Stol, ernie yacub and Micah liked this
"Deep attention, the cognitive style traditionally associated with the humanities, is characterized by concentrating on a single object for long periods (say, a novel by Dickens), ignoring outside stimuli while so engaged, preferring a single information stream, and having a high tolerance for long focus times. Hyper attention, by contrast, is characterized by switching focus rapidly between different tasks, preferring multiple information streams, seeking a high level of stimulation, and having a low tolerance for boredom. "
- Iphigenie
"Deep attention is superb for solving complex problems represented in a single medium, but it comes at the price of environmental alertness and flexibility of response. Hyper attention excels at negotiating rapidly changing environments in which multiple foci compete for attention; its disadvantage is impatience with focusing for long periods on a non-interactive object such as a...
more...
- Iphigenie
Of course it seems to me that ideally you want *both* developed in people - so they can take in a stream and navigate multiple sources at once, but are also able to tune out distractions at will, and focus on deep thinking, or artistic inspiration, or just one book or film. (although when I think about it, R cannot bear distraction, my mother could never focus deeply on anything - I only know of a dozen or so people of which I am sure they can do both at will, counting me)
- Iphigenie
Forget dying for your company... would you kill for them? - http://dilbert.com/strips...
Rob Diana, ernie yacub, Martin Bryant and Jared Smith liked this
Awesome, Low-Tech Gadget Creates Liters of Fresh Water #Africa - http://wiredvision.jp/news...
bcultral, Meryn Stol, Roney Smith and 6 other people liked this
McGuyver style!!!!
- Shevonne
UK Spends Billions on High-tech ID Cards, Forgets to Buy Card Readers - http://www.crunchgear.com/2009...
ernie yacub and Kol Tregaskes liked this
Media coverage of Israel’s attack of Gaza - Frontline Club discussion - http://www.kadaitcha.com/2009...
ernie yacub liked this
I didn't immediately understand that this is not the monster running from left to right - http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart...
Anne Bouey, Mike Cichon, Susan A. Kitchens and 16 other people liked this
:-)
- Kol Tregaskes
I swear, I saw exactly the same thing until I read the title :)
- directeur
Same here. LOL I was like "Look! A snow-covered zombie!"
- Hookuh Tinypants
It's freaky, isn't it? :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
She's catching the snow
- @CrystalinaB
saw pic first; didn't even see the monster until read the text. guess that sums up my own problems. ;-)
- michael silverton
from twhirl
@counter_hasbara also see chomsky's latest article - essential reading btw http://globalresearch.ca/index...
ernie yacub liked this
Israeli colonel leaves speaking tour of UK for fear of arrest http://www.jpost.com/servlet....
ernie yacub liked this
#gaza speaking event was cancelled Colonel Rapp "returned to #Israel out of fear of a universal jurisdiction arrest warrant for alleged war crimes."
- ernie yacub
mparent77772 US Supply Routes to Afghanistan Suffer Two Huge Blows: by the McClatchy Newspapers"MOSC.. http://palestinianpundit.blogspot.com/2009...
ernie yacub liked this
If you see a reshare and want to comment/like, what do you do?
ernie yacub, Ron, Håkan Dahlström and 4 other people liked this
Do you comment/like the reshare, the original share, both or the more active one?
- Kol Tregaskes
I don't reshare unless it's to a room: the act of commenting/liking the original shares that item with everyone that follows me.
- FFing Enigma
Tina, I'm thinking more towards commenting or liking other people's reshares. Yes I only reshare to rooms. I'd say commenting or liking the original is best but sometimes I've commented/liked the more active share.
- Kol Tregaskes
I usually go for the original. +1 Tina
- Shey
I'm oblivious to original/reshare. I just like and comment on what I like.
- Just Katie
Katie, yeah it's not wholly clear it's a reshare. I'd like it to be clear perhaps add where the share originally came from (room/user).
- Kol Tregaskes
I think that is upper school level FF. I'm still in pre-k.
- Martha
I'm pretty lazy on this one - I usually like and comment whichever one I see first.
- Jandy
Martha, :-) Yep take it one step at a time. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
I like both, but comment on the original (unless there's a specific comment on the reshare I want to respond to).
- Chris Charabaruk
Actually Kol these technique posts help a lot. Like Sylvan Learning center for me. :o)
- Martha
The more active one. Sometimes on both and I cross-post a link to the other if there are notable threads respectively.
- Micah
Martha, cool. They help me too. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Indonesian divorce rate surges - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...
Kol Tregaskes, Phillip Stewart, ernie yacub and 2 other people liked this
"The divorce rate in Indonesia has risen dramatically over the past decade, according to official figures. Women have a greater awareness of their rights and are bringing more cases to court. The number citing polygamy as grounds for divorce is also rising. The Religious Affairs Ministry said the divorce rate had jumped from an average of 20,000 a year to more than 200,000. Since the introduction of democratic reforms 10 years ago, authoritarian attitudes are changing."
- FFing Enigma
from Bookmarklet
Ismael Bejarano, Patrick Jordan, imabonehead and 31 other people liked this
Posted here before, but thought it was apt for today. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Completely agree of course! ;-) Enjoy the Super Bowl whoever is watching it. See you tomorrow!
- Kol Tregaskes
hahaha!
- Anna Haro
But where is the bowling ball?
- Jemm
Ok you win...I'm gonna watch the HAND EGG World Championship later today. :)
- Larry Lewis
Good question, Spidra.
- Tyson Key
Why do they call it soccer?
- "Joey"
Rugby was named after the town of the same name in England where it was invented.
- Roberto Bonini
@Joefy: Because "football" was already taken?
- Jemm
Hmm, it has nothing to do with socks, so again another good question. ;)
- Tyson Key
My British hubby will get a kick out of this - will have to share.
- Mlibrarianus
Soccer is football. The Americans co-opted the name for thier own version. :)
- Roberto Bonini
How can the Web truly be “open” when only young white male geeks get to decide what the Web is? - http://dawnsplan.wordpress.com/2009...
Nicole Simon, Billy Warhol, chrisofspades and 67 other people liked this
Dawn writes: "“Sexism” is a word I very seldom use and certainly do not brandish carelessly. Neither do I mean it on an individual basis. These days most men aren’t ignorant-based bigots against women. But Silicon Valley and the Web itself are extremely “institutionally sexist” given the fact that the vast majority of VCs, technologists, and tech reporters/bloggers are male. Even as women are now online in greater numbers than men, female ideas and wants and desires largely go unexecuted. "
- Louis Gray
from Bookmarklet
While there's definitely a serious gender disparity, anyone who thinks that Silicon Valley is run by 'only white people' hasn't been inside most of these companies.
- Kevin Fox
I don't think that's true Louis -- I sure don't think of myself as young, and I think I help "decide what the web is." If someone wants to make the web do something new, thereby changing what it is, what exactly is in their way? This is a very offensive article in many many ways!
- Dave Winer
I commented on the post, and shared this to get more discussion, which is happening. Kevin is right in terms of the diverse nationalities powering these companies - and the Valley itself. Dave is right in terms of the fact that he's out of his 20s and still coming up with great ideas. Dawn's take is that the majority of ideas, and funding are going to companies with these backgrounds.
- Louis Gray
I say we execute 10,000,000 Caucasian American males! After all, everything is their fault!
- Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct
Articles like this get written every year and nothing happens. Kevin and Dave's responses here are typical of the responses these articles generate, albeit a lot less crass than the same responses I've seen in the past. But the denials mean nothing. When I go to tech events and seemingly get ignored by everyone one does have to wonder. The females who get attention or either eye candy or have power, but they're almost always white (or Asian).
- Anika
What's more, these same articles get written every year in political blog circle too and everyone is quick to point out that Markos (DailyKos guy) is Latino. All the excuses in the world aren't going to change what's really happening. There's a reason Digby didn't let anyone know she was a woman for years. If people had known, she would have put in some 2nd o 3rd tier political blogging circle.
- Anika
I don't think it's sexist, cause there isn't someone stopping them doing this. My own industry (Network Administration) gets leveed with the "sexist" tag because there are very few women doing the job. The major reason why is because there are few women that want to do this job. How many women are interested in technology to the level that we love it? Male geeks are a minority, girl geeks are an even smaller minority than the male one! I think the problem isn't sexism but rather the way kids are brought up
- alphaxion
Just look at how many parents get worried if their little girl shows more interest in cars than dolls. If more girls are exposed to technology from a young age then their interest in it will continue into adulthood. The phrase "sexist" is thrown around too easily in an attempt to explain away such a marked difference in demographics when there's more going on than males stopping women from getting into these positions.
- alphaxion
How many parents get worried if their girl shows interest in cars?
- Anika
The fact that there is even a name for this kinda behaviour (tomboy) shows you how ingrained the mindset is that girls should play with dolls and make believe kitchens instead of cool robots and science kits. Someone I know jokingly comments that his kid is "a lesbian for sure" because she adores dinosaurs (though he does encourage her to be interested in things like that).
- alphaxion
there is a social stigma surrounding girls that like things that have somehow been deemed "boys toys", likewise the same is also said about boys that are interested in "girls toys". Here's a simple test you can do, ask some random people what they think about computers. The majority of people, male and female, will see them as tools. A very small percentage will say they're cool. I'm willing to bet that more males than females will answer this way. That's where the problem is, that's not sexism.
- alphaxion
Problem #1 – Silicon Valley’s inability to judge if an idea is truly good or not...LOLOLOL NO COMMENTS!!!!!!!!! Here is my er... example LOL :))))) http://twitter.com/SexySEO...
- Lora Lufark
Thank you very much for getting discussion going, Louis! The main point I'd like to make clear is that while Amazon HAD to be created by a tech guy, that's no longer the case. There are a lot of great Web companies that could be created if people with nontech experience and skills could get funding and direct the development - paying the people who actually execute the plans with cash...
more...
- Dawn
Lora, I think just like in the liberal blogosphere, sheeple want to know who says something, rather than committ to a position. So, there are times, that I or others have written entries, only to have people pooh-pooh them, then Markos or Jane Hamsher writes the same thing weeks or months later and then the sheeple baaa their way into agreement. I see that just looking at how people respond to Louis or Robert S. I've seen others here posit similar items, yet they get shot down, mocked and/or ignored.
- Anika
Actually that is only true if you are in the US. I'm in China and it certainly is not the case. Maybe it's only white male geeks if you are in the US and read English?
- Paul Denlinger
If are ready for diversity then we need to promote it, that simple my 2 cents
- Dan owns Comicsforge.com
btw, I started a room a month ago called "What Women Want" that's supposed to take a look at women's needs/desires vs. men's when it comes to the Web. We need more people! If you're at all interested, please look it up and give it a shot. Thanks!
- Dawn
@anika I encounter that all the time, I'll say something and everyone ignores it. The same thing is then mentioned by someone like Chris Pirillo and suddenly "that's a great idea". I wonder if it's because people want this info to come from people who hold some form of authority in the realm they exist within. Until they say it, everything else is just some crackpot running their mouth.
- alphaxion
FYI, here's what I wrote in the first post about the "What Women Want" room: This past month since I've started my "Dawn's Plan" blog, I've written a few posts about how I believe the Web needs more soft anthropology added to hard technology. I know I'm hitting a chord with women, because they keep writing to me and cheering me on! Clearly, women have some dissatisfactions with the WWW,...
more...
- Dawn
I once was told a story about a game called monopoly. A group of players had been at the monopoly table for three hours. They had amassed property and were acutely aware of the rules and how the game was best played to acquire property. Then comes along prospective players who wanted to sit at the table and play the game after standing and observing for some time. Finally, one of the group members offered a seat at the monopoly table to one of the observers.
- bcultral
I've just joined the "what women want' room (http://friendfeed.com/rooms...) because, yes, I'm a woman (lots of people are surprised about that apparently). I've been using technology in work in one form or another for most of the last 20-odd years and there is still an assumption that technical stuff will be only done by men. But sexism is a tricky thing to even define. There appears to have been progress made and I would hope that a person's gender...
- WoH: Minding her Steves
Once seated at the table the observer realized with embarassment that with no money or property the game would be impossible to compete. Thus pressure was put on the Player who offered the seat to loan or give a start up stake to the new player......This is what I see in this thread....I think there is promise in this way of thinking concerning inclusion and openess, So, I would address racism as well as sexism as potential impediments for inclusion. ps Anika, I feel you @bcultral
- bcultral
...or ethnicity, or orientation or any other characteristic does not determine their opportunities. I don't think this is the case yet but I also don't think it's a foolish dream. My daughters are familiar and comfortable using computers and have no worries about being seen as weird. Where there are problems like Patricia and Anika have outlined it is important to stand up and say it isn't right. No one should be sidelined because of prejudice.
- WoH: Minding her Steves
if you can ignore websites like nonsociety which just make women look worse.....
- Terry O'Fee
But I was slightly confused by the article because it seemed to imply that all 'high-tech geeks' are men, and that just isn't the case. It might be that most high-tech geeks with power' are men, and that does appear to be true. Not all the ideas-people are women, not all the engineers are men. Enabling all people who have good ideas (but perhaps no technical knowledge on how to implement) to have a shot at seeing those ideas realised is an interesting idea. A side-effect of the credit crunch might...
- WoH: Minding her Steves
Robin: Great story; perfect illustration. The only thing I would add is that with the Web, it's not a zero sum game. Everybody will prosper more as great people show up who just need that seat at the table. "By lifting up others, we life up ourselves." WorldofHiglet: thanks for joining.
- Dawn
...be better modeling that will allow non-technical people the freedom to explore and develop ideas.
- WoH: Minding her Steves
Dawn zero sum game it is not: India to launch a $10 laptop,
- bcultral
+1 to WorldofHiglet for that last sentence. Perfect!
- Dawn
Patricia, I'd love to!! Your place or mine? ;)
- Dawn
@dawn, lol. email me! it's on my site - www.dailypatricia.com
- Patricia
I should take my case as a point. I presented at a VC gathering at the Hatchery.vc last week. I was one of two persons of color at the event. I was actually set up to fail in the presentation setting and delivery of my startup. I am the founder of SpokenWord.Tv and have designed a software I believe will shift the paradigm of communications and social networking and media. This idea seems to frighten and offend in that it is too simple. Anyway, I maintain the audacity of hope.
- bcultral
Patricia, Thank You for the offer of assistance...which email address?@bcultral.
- bcultral
It rather annoys me when people just pooh-pooh women off and claim we just aren't interested in tech, and that's why we aren't visible. I know darned sure I'm not the only tech-loving female out there. Hopefully the "you don't exist" voices will be silenced before too long.
- MiniMage, enterRUPPted
Msg sent. Thank you Patricia I apologize for requesting you disclose your email rather than finding it on your website :) @bcultral
- bcultral
alphaxion, instead of talking in generalities & abstracts, lets focus on the fact that articles like this are written all the time and women who are in tech, look at it and say, "damn skippy". What your random friend does with his kid, has nothing to do with having to read articles like this every year for the past 15 years and the impact this has the lives of these actual adult women.
- Anika
I was having a similar discussion the other night with Sheryl Sandberg, Mike Arrington, and Arianna Huffington. Sheryl pointed out that many of the top executives at Google are women. She is no. 2 exec at Facebook now. On the other hand the sexism in this industry is pretty deep. Arrington told us about all the sexist comments they have to delete from TechCrunch when women reporters work for them. He had one reporter quit after two weeks because of the comments.
- Robert Scoble
But a lot of females aren't helping the situation any.
- Mona Nomura
I find that Dawn's use of me is pretty inaccurate. I have flown 150,000 miles in past year to get outside of Silicon Valley. I am writing to you from Davos. Here sexism is far deeper. The politicians, media, and finance companies are mostly run by old white males. I find far more diversity inside EVERY Silicon Valley company. Second, she misquotes me on number of followers. One reason I don't like Dawn is I find she just does not treat other people very well and she is often inaccurate in her writings.
- Robert Scoble
(I blocked Dawn during political season because I found she was very uninformed and she was inaccurate and abusive back then, too, something I find is leaking out again in this post).
- Robert Scoble
Mona: this problem is deep and is not going to get solved easily. Back in 1994 during my first computer programming conference I helped plan (Visual Basic Insiders Technical Summit) 425 males showed up and two women did. Today conferences are about 20% women. My wife talked with Sandberg about how women often are tougher for other women to work for. She said this is a problem and one that is overcome with good coaching -- she says she is noticing that changing in the valley, though.
- Robert Scoble
By the way, Huffington got funded and she is not a geek.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I agree, that things are slowly starting to change in the Valley and hopefully it will start changing in the blogosphere as well. :) BTW I would love to meet Maryam one of these days. I've only heard really great things about her and she sounds so sharp and insightful. You are a lucky, lucky, man!
- Mona Nomura
Mona you are welcome at our house anytime. I am lucky, agreed!
- Robert Scoble
Mona it should start changing due to Arianna Huffington, although even Arrington is hiring women (just hired another one two weeks ago). She has $25 million in funding. I am sure she will hire some great writers over the next few years.
- Robert Scoble
I think offering up Huffington is unfair. Her background of high-powered exes and syndicated columns puts her in a different category. To go back to politics, it's like Jane Hamsher. Everyone says she's smart, but the reason the "A-list" liberal bloggers started touting her is because she's movie-industry famous. There are lots of other female political writers who are more intelligent & and less "bigoted" than Hamsher, but they get ignored because they didn't produce Natural Born Killers.
- Anika
Thanks Robert :) I am a huge Milan fan, as well! And great Huffington post tidbit, thanks for sharing. :)
- Mona Nomura
Hmmm I just read the piece and disagree with a majority of points. In this day and age a good idea is a good idea, sharp individuals are sharp individuals, regardless of race, sex, and stature. It is great to celebrate the differences between female and males, but shedding more light to the separation by labeling may be hindering towards progression of being treated as "equals". Shouldn't it be a group/room to discuss opposing views open to anyone as opposed to *just* females?
- Mona Nomura
Anika - but it's a start and that's what's important. As more aggregating services become widely used, the tight knit blogging community will no longer be a small circle, due to exposure of the 'less known'. What's important and should be the focus is not dwelling on the past, but how and what we (the 'little people') choose to say and how we present ourselves, to gain the same interest and following as those currently in "A-list" status.
- Mona Nomura
Anika: this is life. Deal with it. Danl Lewin, co-founder of NeXT, told me that Steve Jobs talked IBM out of $500 million without even having a prototype. I could not do that. He got it done based on his past experience. Arianna did the same. Good for her! Shows this is not a women thing, but rather a human thing. How do we get a broader range of people to be successful? This is a tough, tough, issue.
- Robert Scoble
I have experienced more gender bias in some places than in others. The gender bias against female programmers I experienced in the UK was enough to make me walk away from the profession for three years.
- Lisha Sterling
from twhirl
Somebody told me that Robert is once again spreading hateful things about me, so I read this thread on another browser that doesn't have me logged into FF. He stated: "One reason I don't like Dawn is I find she just does not treat other people very well and she is often inaccurate in her writings." I'd like for him to show even one example of me treating somebody poorly. And as for...
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- Dawn
...was for many years, which I am not and never was and never would be. I'm a mainstream Catholic and proud of it. I defended myself against Robert's anti-Christian bigotry and will continue to defend myself as he makes these ridiculous accusations against me. Not treating people nicely? Robert knows that in the past few years my husband died just three days before our 25th wedding...
more...
- Dawn
@alphaxion but it *is* sexism when you raise your children like that and label kids who like the "opposite genders' toys" to be gay or abnormal. Sexism isn't just what happens at the very last moment leading up to a job. It's also sexist that male-dominated interests and professions are both higher paying and more highly valued, and that studies show that when women begin to dominate a...
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- Lisha Sterling
from twhirl
Dukeswharf, I have no hard feelings against Robert, as I wrote when he blocked me: http://friendfeed.com/e... That he did that actually surprised me (it took me a while to figure out what happened) and, frankly, it hurt my feelings, because I had thought we were friends and he often said he *liked* being...
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- Dawn
...and to my future prospects. It's not true what he said. I don't deserve this.
- Dawn
I'm not saying the labelling of people when they're brought up isn't sexist, I'm pointing at that being a massive contributer to the current situation. I've been a network admin for 10 years and I've never stopped a woman joining my department, the problem is that no women have ever applied to the job openings (we've had a couple in the desktop support in that time). The lack of women in an industry isn't always because of active sexism from the people in that department. That's what I'm saying.
- alphaxion
I think the problem stems from how we bring up children and pidgeon hole them early - that is certainly sexism. But blaming an industry for being "sexist" purely based on the lack of women isn't looking at the real cause and is jumping to conclusions. As I said, in my 10 years of netadmin I have never seen a woman apply for the openings in our department. Am I then sexist for having never employed one in my team?
- alphaxion
Hey, Dukeswharf, didn't you read above what I said, that I'm *Catholic.* I know all about forgiveness. Ha! Okay, I'll officially say it for your benefit. I forgive, Robert. I apologized to him on my blog and I'll never mention him again in any of my blog posts so he won't feel compelled to beat me up anymore and I won't have to forgive him again later. ;)
- Dawn
bearing in mind that I actively encouraged and then financed my GF to go through uni on a video game design degree - she is one of only 2 or 3 girls in her year (she's in the final one now). Video Games is also a very heavily male dominated industry too. I do find it disgusting that women get paid less than men for the same job, but then I'm currently paid about £6k less than my market average so I think it is also partially down to the individual company as well as attitudes of the managers.
- alphaxion
Alphaxion: I specifically said in this article that I am talking about *institutional sexism* which is not the same as individual sexism. No, you are not sexist for never employing a woman on your team.
- Dawn
@dawn what I'm trying to point out is that the problem is, people will jump to conclusions of institutional sexism when there isn't such an artificial barrier to entry. There may be a different cause that results in a lack of female participation - be it sexism during their upbringing or just that it is such a niche thing that it's minorities of both genders that get interested enought to choose it as a career in the first place.
- alphaxion
I know plenty of female CSE's. And NOBODY gets to decide "what the Web is", because it is what's on it, and anybody can put anything they want on it.
- Will Higgins™
However, don't think I'm suggesting that all is equal because it certainly isn't, I agree that lower wages is a sign of institutional sexism, so too is how children are brought up. It's not always in the workplace as to where the sexism originated. Ask any male geek whether they'd like to see more women in their particular avenue of interest/career and the majority will say they would love to. But ask women what industry they would love to work in and I can bet you that not many of them will suggest tech.
- alphaxion
Alphaxion: Sure, I think men will always dominate tech, and that's fine with me. What my bigger issue is that tech shouldn't keep so much power and control to itself alone. Nontech people should ideally be able to direct techies to develop things that the techies wouldn't necessarily create themselves. Take FF for example. If it had been a team of women doing the initial design, it...
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- Dawn
of course.. diveristy is the spice of life :) If one thing working in IT has taught me is that so few people are interested in tech enough to suggest ideas like that. They see tech as part of their job and as a tool, not as part of their social life. This is changing tho, especially since the likes of facebook et al have certainly shown many that tech can be a part of their social life. This will, in turn feed into tech as they begin to realise what we techies have been telling them for the past 2decades!
- alphaxion
the photo meetups that I go to typically have a lot more females than the tech meetups that I go to.
- Thomas Hawk
American culture is built on the concept of the lowest common denominator. Mass marketing itself with campaigns and launch dates and all the agon of competition is a war to spread stereotypes and present a popular culture that is built on coarse and common concepts. Geeks are stereotyped, men and women are stereotyped, all of us are lumped in one pile or another when we are all. in fact, individual and subtle. More women media and tech leadership would transform it. We are missing 50% of our talent.
- Phil Boiarski
i work in the tech industry, more gaming side of it and there's one female pokie tech who works for the big company that is australia wide.
- Terry O'Fee
isms as impediments...
- bcultral
This thread proves why we need threaded conversations here. I can't follow anything any more!
- Anika
Interesting how the title of this post inferred exclusion but immediately directed the focus to Sexism. I mention isms as impediments to broaden the subject to the systemic dynamics which create exclusion. For me personally, exclusion invokes thoughts and feelings of structural and personal racism. Unfortunately, many do not understand just how racism works structurally. Because racism is systemic, individuals have difficulty identifying the role they play in perpetuating racism. .
- bcultral
Tech holds on to stuff so tightly because when it doesn't it gets screwed. This has been proven time and time again.
- Kevin
Robin: I agree with you and I think it's a great point. I did intend for the post to speak to all exclusions, but being a white woman, when it comes to sharing details and examples, I'd feel awkward and maybe even disingenuous trying to speak for racial minorities. Again, I think you're point is well taken. A lot of people reacted to this post as a personal attack, as me accusing them...
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- Dawn
Kevin: What do you mean? I'm interested to hear more.
- Dawn
It is True that a lot of the Main A-Lister Web2.0 Tech Voices are White Males thankfully there are also great Female Voices like Emily from eHub + Susan Mernit of Yahoo! + some other less Visual Minorities being heard* but there's no doubt the Old White Boys Club rules the VC Roost in Silicon Valley*
- Billy Warhol
So who's here on FriendFeed at the weekend? Sign in here...
mjc, ernie yacub, Cecyl Hobbs and 48 other people liked this
Just me? :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Here for a bit, then off out!
- Vicky
me :)
- Niki Costantini
*raiseshand* but not for too long. Going to use the - queue the drum roll - good weather outside to go out for a photowalk...
- Holger Eilhard
me, as you see
- Richard A.
Me too. Going offline in 30 minutes but I'll be back later.
- Tapio Kulmala
mememememe!!!
- Bec Rowe @d0tski
me
- Roberto Bonini
Reporting in
- Mo Kargas
YO!
- BEX
Here!
- Andrew Terry
I'm almost always here ;o)
- Seth Greenblatt
from NoiseRiver
here
- Lu Tao
If this is the sum total of weekend FF usage, FF must really be saving on the bandwidth bills ;)
- Roberto Bonini
Me!!
- Emma
I'll be here for a little while. Then I'm driving to my mother-in-law's house. There's no broadband where she lives, but I might be able to get back on with my iPhone, assuming AT&T has decided to put a signal there.
- Joey Gibson
Me, but I shouldn't be. I have this offline weekend rule. So don't tell anyone :)
- Sasha Kovaliov
Me, on and off. Going to watch a movie in a while with my daughter when she's finished tidying her room.
- Nicola Quinn
On and off today as I try to get caught up. That's as likely as Google flagging the whole Internet as malware. Oh wait....
- Kevin C. Tofel
I´m here. Should be working some overtime though..
- ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ
I am for now, but have to go out and get my eyes checked. ^%#@#$%^^%(. Will be back later tho.
- Martha
Moi...
- Tyson Key
Hello.
- David Cook
watashi
- vijay
present
- sofarsoShaw BAZINGA!
Signed.
- "Joey"
Hello!
- Steven Perez
Oops, sorry I buggered off for a few hours. Hello all!! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Darn the Wii. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Nicola, what movie? Enjoyed it?
- Kol Tregaskes
ilene, Black Books is gooood! Very funny. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Hidy hi!
- Nicholas Kreidberg
Not for long....I hope
- Just Katie
I'm here. :)
- Mol, FF Music Lover
I'm here for a little bit
- Justin Rains
I don't feel so alone now, thanks. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
I'll be on for most of the weekend. I'm working up until Superbowl Gametime
- Larry Lewis
I'm always in and out 7 days a week unless I go out that is
- Ian May
I'm here, sorta lurking in the shadows like I usually do.
- Sally - Skyrimmin' It
Here
- Valley
Sally, there is nothing wrong with lurking. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Terence, nooooo. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Maybe
- Jim Goldstein
sorta kinda
- Chris
I'm signing off...after one more refresh ;)
- sofarsoShaw BAZINGA!
I'm here, checking in every so often throughout the day.
- Mike Fruchter
Me, me, me, me, me, me, meeeep.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
Bill Romanos
- Bill Romanos
Howdy
- Christian (Simply X)
Here.
- Russellreno
Present
- Herb Hernandez
here here
- Neya
I am here all the time: day, night, week days, week ends, holidays, etc.
- April
present and unaccountable!
- MiniMage, enterRUPPted
I'm here but going in a few minutes. Busy Saturday!
- AJ Batac :)
Hey, Reuben! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
So that's quite a few of you then. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
I'm here kind of. Wrangling with an stubborn wireless card that doesn't want to connect over WPA.
- DB - Just DB
Peeking in. Can't stay.
- Jen (SquirrelGirl)
Yo
- Steve Rubel
sorry it's 80 degrees here in so cal, time to head to the ocean.
- SteVe C
Present!
- Jason Williams
just one more refresh...
- sofarsoShaw BAZINGA!
In the house.
- Phil Boiarski
Don't matter what day of the week it is. -[
- Chris Loft
Present
- Michael Fidler
*waves*
- Susan Beebe
Here!
- imabonehead
Late to the party but here for a while
- Advanced Brain
Here for a while after I feed dogs
- Ginger Kenney
Bueller? ... Bueller?
- Joe Mescher
I am just a fignewton of your imagination.
- Adam Lasnik
its me
- The Amber
im here but working. how is everyone?
- Adam Singer
I'm here, off and on.
- Carmen wBabby
Here
- Eric
Here :)
- mashable
Ditto
- Carlos Granier-Phelps
present
- Bill Futreal
from twhirl
i'm here
- Jamie Mack
from twhirl
I like to see mashable react here :-), more accesible.
- Richard A.
Morning all!! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Moi. I am here.
- Adriana
present.
- Bren
*flexes*
- Rodfather
TROLL
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Oh great. The trolls are up. I'm beat. Not THAT kind of Beat even though I was as Vesuvio's tonight ::)
- Richard Walker
TROLLS never SLEEP LOL
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
here...
- Gökmen Karasu
in and out
- Vicarbott
here too
- Flavio
up and down
- Richard Walker
BBC under strain to show Gaza ad - Israel News, Ynetnews - Network slammed by religious leaders, journalists, and 11,000 viewers for rejecting charity appeal - http://www.ynetnews.com/article...
Tyson Key, bill giltner and ernie yacub liked this
"The British 'Observer' reported that journalists and editors employed by the BBC were enraged by the network's continuing refusal. "I've been talking to colleagues, and everyone here is absolutely seething about this," said one reporter, who was not identified by name. "The notion that the decision to ban the appeal will seem impartial to the public at large is quite absurd. Most of us feel that the BBC's defense of its position is pathetic, and there's a feeling of real anger, made worse by the fact that, contractually, we are unable to speak out.""
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
Remember that Sky is refusing to screen it, too.
- Roberto Bonini
Is Sky a Rupert Murdoch op?
- Sean McBride
Now that you mention it , it might be. Lemme chck
- Roberto Bonini
Via wikiepdia: "Rupert Murdoch's News International (a wholly owned subsidiary of News Corporation) currently has a 38% stake in the company. News Corp also fully owns Sky Italia, about 78% of New Zealand's SKY Network Television Limited and Sky FBiH of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina...On 7 December 2007 it was announced that Rupert Murdoch would be stepping down as BSkyB's...
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- Roberto Bonini
Thanks -- "Murdoch op" sounds about right.
- Sean McBride
i think this is a good thing, there's a mystique/brand built around #bbc journalistic credibility that is being exposed like #nyt and many other #msm conglomerates.
- ernie yacub
The same pressures that have been brought to bear on the BBC in recent years have also been directed at NPR. Neoconservatism is a global network and lobby, dominated at the top by a few dozen billionaires, which is seeking absolute control over the global media (including the Internet). They've already done quite a bit of damage to the BBC and NPR.
- Sean McBride
also kanajun #cbc slip sliding like other msm towards gov & corp orthodoxy.
- ernie yacub
Ernie -- it is important to understand that a single neoconservative network is behind efforts to seize control of the media in the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, Italy and other nations and regions. Rupert Murdoch is the single most powerful member of the cabal (and "cabal" is definitely the most appropriate word here).
- Sean McBride
We must become the change we want to see in the world. -Mahatama Gandi
ursi and ernie yacub liked this
"Let me tell you about Palestine, the way it used to be" - http://electronicintifada.net/v2...
ernie yacub liked this
Bill Kristol's Last Column (Good Riddance) - http://gawker.com/5139216...
ernie yacub liked this
"Conservative nepotism beneficiary Bill Kristol became the resident Times Op-Ed conservative in January of 2008, with a one-year "tryout" contract. This provided all the time he needed to get the entire Obama election story wrong, every week. Kristol reliably and consistently wrote whatever the opposite of truth and reality was, in every column, and his disconnect from reality was so great and so embarrassing that he was considered a dead columnist walking from about June onwards. That is before the Sarah Palin debacle! Kristol was almost as responsible as John McCain's staff for foisting that woman on us, cheerleading her brief rise and happily ignoring her descent into ridicule."
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
The poster boy for everything that is wrong and ridiculous about neoconservatism
- Sean McBride
Now we know where our bailout dollars are going. Loans to big pharma for mergers. Banks put 25 billion into Pfizer/Wyeth acquisition.
ernie yacub and Mitch liked this
ugh... nice.
- Brian Roy
Nah, the just want pharma to be prepared when everyone in the US goes on anti-depressants once the first quarter numbers come out ;-)
- FFing Enigma
And because they know... even if everything else goes to shit we will still need anti-biotics and allergy pills.
- Brian Roy
Hamas-run government in Gaza says it will create a committee of senior officials to oversee all relief efforts in the territory.
ernie yacub liked this
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