"Interplay's attempt at a massively-multiplayer online Fallout comes three screen shots closer to reality, if these shots of Project V13, reported to be court submitted evidence of the game, are the real deal."
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
from Bookmarklet
"A slow trickle of information and media on upcoming Old West-em-up Red Dead Redemption has been coming from developer Rockstar Games for some time now. And if it weren't for the game's somewhat unique setting – as well as our (admittedly strained) faith in the game's developer – we might not indulge the it with so much attention. Alas, these screens, much like the screens and video that came before them, keep impressing us. Call it a predilection for Western-themed entertainment ... we're not sure."
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
from Bookmarklet
Done. I answered "other" on a few because I would've answered more than one option (indicated in the "other" comments.)
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Need more than one selections. 1. movies and tv show. 2. tv, internet, stream. 3. >10. 4. >7 5. no. 6. no, yes, yes 7. usualy with wife, but sometimes alone. 8. all of 4 9. like/hide 10-20 per half of day. 10. first. 11. dont count it.
- Vital
Great! We got 17 answers so far, but we need more (up to 100). Please share this questionnaire outside this room. Thanks a lot!
- Roman Zolotarev
The Pomegranates opening for Headlights. Hitting all my "awesome" buttons (except "female guitarist"). I call dibs on the cutie on the left. - http://brightkite.com/objects...
"Recently, I bought the new Criterion version on Blu-ray; it was the first time I’ve double-dipped on account of the new format, and I didn’t know if it would be worth it. I have to say that my expectations were more than fulfilled: Wings looks spectacular, being the simultaneous beneficiary of one of Criterion’s digital restorations and the extra pixel power of the high-def format. In addition, the transfer was supervised by Wenders himself, and in this case that’s a good thing: it is undoubtedly closer to his vision than ever, and as we’ve come to expect from Criterion, it looks as good as it ever will. [...] The first two-thirds of Wings of Desire, the black-and-white part as the angels explore their world, is wonderful: fascinating, fulfilling and satisfying. Although the final segment, after Damiel has taken the plunge, is satisfying enough, it leaves us — like Damiel? — with a wistful desire for the serene world of the witness. Engagement with the world is like that: it is...
more...
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
from Bookmarklet
I really do have to see Wings of Desire (WoD?) again... I remember the shock I felt when I discovered that Columbo used to be a ghost.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
I remember that movie .. and I remember when Potsdamer Platz look like that as well. I'll have to watch it again.
- Kittyburgers
Dude, my hearing, dude. The last sounds I want to hear before I completely lose my hearing are not the OMGs and tee hee hee's of 30 underage girls.
- Steven Perez
from IM
chicks dude....chi-hih-hih-cks!....oh wait, if they were underage.....then never mind. i guess you hear the phrase 'oh my god!' a couple times huh?
- Morgan Haley
Sounds like the shopping area across from our office - it was torture going over there while school was out. Doesn't help that the area's a pretty posh one. Not only was it full to brimming with loud, annoying teenyboppers, but they were entitled, privileged annoying teenyboppers.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Morgan: only a few hundred times.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Jandy: eek. Sounds positively delightful, like a night of paper cuts and lemon juice.
- Steven Perez
from IM
I misread hungry at first. I'm sorry, Steven. I'd thought you were HORNY and patronizing an establishment filled to the brim with high school cheerleaders... and I couldn't figure out what was so wrong with this.
- Ladybug Heather
"[Dollhouse] became just a scoach too whore-y. Never had a better meeting, everything was great, then they [FOX] said "so they're kinda like prostitutes and that's not ok" Word came down that it wasn't ok. I wanted to make a show that's about feeling bad about feeling good or good about feeling bad. Fantasy is just that, fantasy. FOX wanted to back away from these implications. Every episode [of the first season] is ridiculously hard, because the central core has been ripped out just enough, that we're constantly dancing around our own premise."
- Steven Perez
from Bookmarklet
In this case I believe he was kind of tied to fox because Eliza Dushku was still contracted to them, and as he wrote the show for her it was the place to be.
- Joe Pierce
I think that's part of it. Look at it this way: you're Joss Whedon. You want to make cool stuff, but you keep getting screwed due to low ratings/bad timeslots/shitty studio execs. So, in order to make what you want (like, fer instance, DR. HORRIBLE), you take the money and the grief that accompanies a show on Fox. Because now you have a bit of breathing room, a few more contacts, and a bit more experience and cash to make what you want.
- Steven Perez
I'm sure that is a big part of it. Though I would be shocked if Whedon or Minear worked for Fox again anytime soon. (which is almost exactly the same thing I said right after Drive got the axe).
- Joe Pierce
God why can't Whedon find someone other than Fox to hitch his wagon to? He would be so much better on a premium cable net.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
I really wish he'd go to a cable net after this. How many times does Fox have to screw him before they both decide to call it a day with each other? But really, as much as we love them, his shows are niche shows, and the broadcast nets are always going to expect a mainstream audience for them. It's a fundamental problem, because Fox is the most edgy of the broadcast nets, honestly.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I think the premise for Dollhouse had a lot of room for thematic growth and exploration. From a writer's point of view, exploring the issues in the dollhouse'verse would have been quite a fun task.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
I really do hope AMC or HBO would hire Whedon. Letting Whedon be Whedon would unleash the awesome.
- Spidra Webster
Can they add 4 without wormhole technology?
- Michael W. May
this makes me miss Netflix more than ever
- Joe Pierce
I'm watching s1 ep1 now; not bluray, but frel it.
- Michael W. May
"And there's life out here, dad. Weird, amazing... psychotic life. In technicolor." I knew I loved this show. I had forgotten how much.
- Michael W. May
Being reminded of one of the reasons I like this show so much: no taboo on natural bodily functions *chuckle* I'm on s2ep9 now
- Michael W. May
I need to rewatch the whole thing. I've seen all of S1 and S2 and about half of S3, but I forget details. You're really going fast, MWM, unless you're skipping some!
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Not skipping, but some I remember well (have seen a few times in rerun) I let play whilst doing other things. By the way, do not forget to Netflix queue short The Peacekeeper Wars dren that was made to pacify the masses after they cancelled the series without the final season and with no warning. Bitter? After 5 years? Me? No... :P
- Michael W. May
Heh, I'm still bitter over Firefly. I was still in the middle of Farscape in the middle of S2 when it ended, so I wasn't too fussed, though I knew a lot of people who were.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
"There was something very magical about this type of hot chocolate Starbucks was offering. As a result I became an addict. You see, I love salted caramel anything and the combination of salty-sweet chocolate sludge was just too much for me to only drink 1 a day. Imagine how much I mourned when I discovered a couple months ago Starbucks was not bringing back my seasonal drink."
- Derrick
from Bookmarklet
CARAMEL HOT CHOCOLATE. Wasn't this what I was saying I wanted, like, yesterday when you were talking about toffee caramel coffee or something? Sounds like work, though. Why can't Starbucks just have it again? :(
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Hope you like it! I did it much quicker than most of my mixes - it just seemed to happen.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Thanks Jandy. I find myself wanting this type of music quite often. Looking forward to listening to it.
- Mark Krynsky
I go in phases, Mark - lots of times I just want fast, poppier/rockier stuff, but I've been craving this style lately. Must be the cooler weather, getting dark earlier, all those winter things - even in SoCal!
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
thanks, Jandy... this is gonna hit the spot. I've been feeling the Melancholy Celt, lately.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Great mix, Jandy, including some new ones to me I already love :)
- Michael W. May
Thought you'd like it, MWM. :) Surprised there were any you didn't know, though. Maybe that Citizen Helene one, which I found on a blog sometime and LOVE but can't find much of anything else from her.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
These are some extremely nice/interesting FriendFeeders (Links above) There are many others... (sorry for the dozens of omissions), but follow them and you will soon find all the rest from there.
- SAM
I would just keep an eye out for people commenting on posts you comment on or like. That's a good way to find people with the same interests.
- Alan Simpson
Also, you could search groups for things you're interested in, then sub to people who are active on them.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
And most of us post about a lot of different things; the categorizations I did above are GROSS generalizations. Like Joey (SAM linked above, http://friendfeed.com/joeybean) had a really good thread on Gone With the Wind a couple of days ago. Alex posts about just about everything under the sun, as does RAP. So just poke around and check out the feeds of people whose comments you like as well.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I agree with the way Jandy broke it down, it depends on your interests. You should find some people close to you, because they will have some overlap, then you should check out rooms and find people you enjoy that way. But here are few people I would recommend: Jandy for film and concerts (http://friendfeed.com/faithx5), Fossil Huntress for Palentology, hiking, kayaking and travel...
more...
- RAPatton
First two shots are my old desk in various stages of packing up. Third is my new desk - lots smaller, but I kinda like it. We'll be getting cork boards on the walls to decorate. Last two shots, our new space. Way smaller, we'll see how that works out. Five people in this area. Good thing we all like each other! And really, we were only using about half of our old space. We're moving in with our sister company - let's see how long it takes for us to drive them insane. Because we're insane.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I'd just like to personally say thank you to all of you for your support with Flickchart. It's been incredibly exciting and rewarding to see so many of you enjoying it and sharing here on FriendFeed. It really means a lot to us, and we appreciate you and all the help you've given us through your comments, suggestions, and opinions. Thank you.
my son and I played it on the way home on the train tonight - ever selection we made was the same which is a little freaky as a dad :)
- mike "glemak" dunn
Thank you for such a great service!
- Kevin Whalen
@jeremy lol dammit you mean I squatted on tunechart.com for nothing? (kidding of course I have no connection to Miami) hellz no! i would have been shocked if you did stop there! in fact I'm heading to GoDaddy right now to grab Colorchart.com, Countrychart.com, universechart.com, shampoochart.com, carbonatedbeveragechart.com and cheesechart.com so I can head you guys off at the pass and sell you the domain names for a quick buck ; p Seriously though - VERY much looking forward to the tune version!
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Don't forget videogamechart.com and boardgamechart.com and tvchart.com and bookchart and fastfoodrestaurantchart.com and cookiechart.com and sitechart.com....the possibilities are ENDLESS. The music one should be next, though, definitely. :)
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Music - is definitely next... others are planned.
- Nathan Chase
Nathan, with these charts you are really spoiling us.
- Andrew Roche
That's probably not what some FriendFeed users will be saying once we launch them all with FF integration.
- Jeremy Thompson
No need for carbonatedbeveragechart.com Marco . . . Coke and Cherry Coke are the only things worth drinking :P
- Lindsey is Fierce!
You're welcome, thank you for the service. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Yeah, thanks a bunch. The service has been really sweet and very addicting. Kudos.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Wow, I just noticed I can moderate comments to this thread. How odd! Looks like I could even delete it.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
that is strange Daniel - perhaps a bug of DM'ing large groups of people?
- Flickchart
Maybe "delete" just means "remove me from this list". I'll try it on some other less awesome thread.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
No, thank YOU! I have spent hours on the site and have over a thousand rankings already. It's a fun site! I can't wait to see the music one!!!
- David Cook
from email
Thanks Nathan & Jeremy. Flickchart is a great site & the FF integration is especially cool !
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Hello! I'd like to extend a request to see if you've used Flickchart lately. If not, were you just not interested enough to continue using it? Not enough features? If you have used Flickchart lately, what's kept you coming back? Would you have any advice for us to draw you back to the site on a regular basis? Any comments or suggestions are most welcome. Thanks in advance! Appreciate it!
- Nathan Chase
For me, I've visited it a few times in the past year (based on when people mention it or you mention there's an update). It's a fun distraction, but I'm not sure what would keep me visiting regularly. My favorite movies of all time don't change that often, and I'm not sure what I can do with that list once I have it other than point it out as an example of what Flickchart does (so, a...
more...
- Mark Trapp
Honestly, I haven't used it in a long time and it's for two reasons: I began to lose interest once the novelty wore off and I just haven't really had time. I think about it a lot and always think to myself, 'I should spend some time on Flickchart,' but then I see an inbox or feed reader with a ton of unread items, Audrey starts crawling all over me, etc. Plus, since I've been working again, I've not had time for much of anything like this.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I pop on fairly often, I guess - a few times a week. But I feel like I spend a lot of time trying to get new adds in place (especially since they all come in right at the middle, which is not too bad if they should be higher, I just rank them a bunch of times, but if they should be lower it's a major pain since it's really hard to move things DOWN on the list), and that feels more like...
more...
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I haven't, but then my love affair with movies has subsided greatly since I graduated film school. It's me, not you. ;)
- Derrick
Yeah, I haven't used it in a while. I just haven't been watching as many movies as I used to... for lack of time. However, if I got a question a day from Flickchart in my email, asking me if A was better than B, I might click on it. That's an idea for you...
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
from email
I've been watching more than ever, but I forget to go rank them sometimes (also the ranking individual movies on the three-at-a-time page is less fun - didn't I hear that you were working on a new way to do that?). Ooh, fanciful idea based on Ahsan's comment - integrate with the Netflix RSS feeds or something so when you return a movie Flickchart automatically pops it up to rank. :)
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I'm never really at my computer when I use flickchart so I guess if I had any feedback (which I haven't thus far because the service has been great!) it would be to perhaps optimize the mobile site for android phones. For me it the site hangs a lot, and I can't actually access the charts on the top. But it's a small criticism as I can still choose what films I like with reckless abandon! :D
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Ugh. Just... Ugh. Sorry, dark dreary days with no viable job prospects make me meh. I'm *this* close to applying for a call center rep job. My luck I'd wind up with someone I used to train as a supervisor. UGH...
Tina.morale.reboot(); // Keep trying Tina!
- Mo Kargas
Development is my weaker skillset: I'm slow as molasses at it. Wind up making peanuts per hour in order to make a competitive bid on a project.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Hmm, I have to agree with the 'peanuts' part. Maybe look at a career change ?
- Mo Kargas
Someone told me that despite my first impression of Mechanical Turk that the tasks are not necessarily programming. Just tasks that humans can do better than computers.
- Spidra Webster
Okay, I just checked on AMT. It seems that "secret shopper" people and content farmers have discovered the site. So it looks like you don't need to be a programmer at all but it might be hard separating the wheat from the chaff.
- Spidra Webster
A lot of Mechanical Turk stuff is busy-work, though - you'd have to do a ton of it to actually make much money. One thing for a little supplemental income, but I doubt you could get enough to survive on. Rochelle does some MTurk stuff, as I recall, she'd probably know more about what's available.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Jandy, it was kinda looking like that to me but I've not dug into the projects very much. Might as well take a look, though: might be the way to work towards getting the skates I want...
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Yeah, I was thinking of it just a way to make a little $ after all the day's jobhunting is done...
- Spidra Webster
in 5 years I went from frontline call center Internet Repair rep to telephone repair rep to telephone lead to anti-virus & wireless lead to Commercial Business frontline rep to Interner Repair Lead, I suspect within 4 months I'll be a sup and a project manager of some sorts by the end of 2010, it's not so bad when you're off the phones, but if I had to spend another day listening to the crap coming through these days, I'd have to do a /wrists
- Tsali, The Native of FF
The hardest part when I was on the lines is that I worked a 10 hour shift; I would lose my voice the last two hours for the first month!
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Chin up, Tina. At the very least, it's a means to an end - pays a few bills; allows you to have a few treats. You never know; you might make a bunch of great new friends. And, there's nothing to stop you from continuing to look for something more rewarding in the meantime. xx
- Andrew Terry
hugs it will get better. i know the feeling well. i went six months with no luck back in the day when i first moved out of town...
- Terry O'Fee
Actually, Andrew, that seems to be the problem when I apply for a lower level job: they always assume that I'm going to take it as a stop gap and will leave when/if I find something better. So they don't hire me. Grrr....
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Been there, done that Tina. :) You will make it through, and someone will see the wisdom of hiring you. I hope it's soon, and you don't go too crazy before then.
- Bette Cooper
Well, we'll hope I don't go too much MORE crazy: I've always been a little off ;-)
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
I do Mechanical Turk (and have for about 2 years now) and don't/can't program at ALL.
- Rochelle
Rochelle, how much time would you say you put towards MT each week?
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
It really varies. I used to spent 10+ each week. These days, maybe an hour. Depends on how bored or busy I am.
- Rochelle
No one told me Audrey Niffenegger had another book out - anyone read it yet? Any good? I need to find a better way of finding out about new books. And by that I mean "a way."
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
from Bookmarklet
I like GoodReads for that reason. Of course, you can get RSS feeds from Amazon for new releases. Not as nice as some ways, but it can work.
- Sarah June
You can link your goodreads to FF i think ...
- Jeremy
My GoodReeds is piped in here, I just don't use GoodReads that much. I'd like to find a blog that covered new and upcoming book releases the way that Cinematical or /Film or Film School Rejects cover movie releases. I've been unsuccessful so far, but I haven't looked in a year or so.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
"The film is perfectly balanced – one story about a man threatening to kill fun, and the story those scenes cut to where a group of rebels live it up on a boat. There’s also love, family issues, and a certain amount of coming-of-age (exactly the kinds that you’d expect from Richard Curtis, actually), and they all fill in the gaps that otherwise would have sunk the ship as a meaningless display of frivolity without an anchor. Luckily, Curtis has made a kind of movie that hasn’t been seen in a long time – a film that is happy to build serious and sweet moments, and equally happy to knock them right off the pedestal in a clever way. It’s called comedy, and it’s nice to have it back."
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
from Bookmarklet
This is good to hear - so many '60s-based music-infused movies have been coming out lately, and I generally like them, but sounds like this one may be a cut above.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
"Focus Features today announced their 2010 release slate. Highlights include: March 12th 2010: The Squid and the Whale writer/director Noah Baumbach’s GREENBERG which stars Ben Stiller. Wednesday, September 1st 2010: Anton Corbijn’s THE AMERICAN starring George Clooney as a retiring assassin. Third Quarter 2010: Kevin Macdonald’s Roman epic adventure THE EAGLE OF THE NINTH. November 2010: Anna Boden & Ryan Fleck’s (Half Nelson, Sugar) dramedy adaptation of Ned Vizzini’s 2006 novel IT'S KIND OF A FUNNY STORY. TBA 2010 (we assume in December for Award Season): Sofia Coppola’s SOMEWHERE starring Stephen Dorff and Elle Fanning."
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
from Bookmarklet
New Noah Baumbach! *fingers crossed* for it being more like Kicking and Screaming than Margot at the Wedding. Ben Stiller's presence scares me. New Sofia Coppola! Excited about that one.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
and my prize is jealousy. LOVED Jekyll.
- Joe Pierce
I was watching it earlier on Netflix. They've added quite a few UK shows lately, apparently.
- Jason Huebel
Anyone who wants to know how hard of an edge the new DOCTOR WHO might have needs to see this mini. Steven Moffat, the soon-to-be producer of WHO, did this as well.
- Steven Perez
Moffat could have done some very interesting things with Eccleston's Doctor, I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens with the new ones. Even if I am a bit nervous about the kid.
- Joe Pierce
Imagine the Doctor with a bit of Hyde in him.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Jane!! Oops, I guess Coupling isn't really scary, huh? This is on Netflix Instant Watch? *adds*
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I'd like to see James Nesbitt as The Doctor. Jandy, is Coupling any good? I've never seen it.
- Joe Pierce
COUPLING is not bad. I catch it whenever it's on BBC America.
- Steven Perez
from IM
I love Coupling. It was originally meant as kind of the British version of Friends, so there are six friends with varying levels of relationships, but the dialogue and situations are WAY raunchier than anything American (basic network) TV could take. And with that edge of Britishness that makes it even better.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
you know how most people rave about joss and say he's the second coming? (my opinon? joss is good but also makes so-so stuff too) i feel that way about the moff. press gang, coupling, jekyll, some of the best who episodes and NOW he's taking over the show.
- Terry O'Fee
Question: Does anyone have a good playlist of super mellow songs that I could play before bed? Reading isn't calming me currently and I find myself listening to the softer tracks from Spring Awakening but I know there are lots others (Jenny Lewis, Rilo Kiley, Sarah McLachlan, Dar Williams, etc.) but I can't seem to make a coherent list.
I'm sorta half working on a down-tempo melancholic mix (not depressing songs, but like the stuff you're listing - stuff I listen to when I'm tired or relaxed or just zoned). I'll try to finish it up quicker and get a copy to you.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
In the meantime, get some Amy Millan. She's right in that pocket, and gorgeous voice to boot.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
are you specifically looking for vocal music? if not, I would recommend Thievery Corporation, Indian Vibes, Aim, Quantic... any good downtempo, chillout-type electronic music... very mellow.
- Bren, Photophobe
Ooohh Ooohh.... almost forgot Groove Armada! wheeeee!!!
- Bren, Photophobe
Thanks Jandy! I knew you'd have good ideas. I just need that mellow-ness. Bren - it doesn't need to be vocal at all (in fact, certain classical pieces calm me more than anything) but I'm really not into electronica. I've tried and I just can't... SAM - I should give him a shot. I heard him live (for a bit) at Coachella and like his stuff.
- Lis Miller
Classical: Bach's lute suites and any classical guitar from the likes of Fernando Sor, Isaac Albéniz, José Ferrer, Luigi Boccherini, many more.
- Michael W. May
I also often use Clannad, Enya, and Yann Tiersen.
- Michael W. May
i have this cd i bought, i cant remember the exact name, its called "best ever jazz songs" or some crap, but it's more loungey stuff. i remember hearing it in a motel restaurant in the middle of nowhere and luckily found a copy in one of the dodgiest cd stores i have ever seen. i remember being interested when I heard holly cole's make it go away. if i can find a link i'll post it on here.,,
- Terry O'Fee
I like Dido when I'm feeling mellow.
- Mellissa Jane
Open a home theater store or go in to computer consulting part time...Oh and play a lot of video games. Figure out the best way to help out my fellow peeps through volunteering my time.
- Alex Scoble
Move back to Baja, set up a nice little casita on the shore, and then spend the rest of my days drinking beer and traveling.
- Steven Perez
I will open a bodega in Key West that sells a thousand different brands of lip balm and nothing else.
- Joe
Help out people. Volunteer. Libraries. Try and get the have-nots into college.
- Derrick
from iPhone
Build the universe's biggest mass driver to point at planet you've never heard of
- Mo Kargas
Move somewhere near my grandkids and spoil the heck out of them.
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Travel or other leisure activities are also goals of mine so the question does not compute.
- Spidra Webster
Build a complete, fully functional recording studio in the home.
- Joshua
I'd keep the one job I like and do it for free.
- Jim Hearts FF
Prepare a spaceship for travel to the nearest solar system that may contain life, set it on a orbit path for that planet and then prepare my body for mummification so as to last for a long as possible and have it launch when I've passed. That way these creatures of this planet, if/when they begin to traverse space (if they haven't already) will have proof that there was another space faring race eons prior, you know a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
- Tsali, The Native of FF
Read and read and read and read and read. Buy a property on the outskirts of town and get a housecow and some sheep and goats and chickens and guinea pigs and parrots. Volunteer at my local RSPCA. Read some more. Become a foster carer for injured and orphaned native wildlife.
- Mellissa Jane
I'm reading Gone with the Wind finally and while parts of it make me do something much more than cringe, I am also so in love with this book in ways that I did not expect. It makes me feel a bit guilty in ways that I can't articulate. In fact, I can't explain much about this novel but I'd love to deconstruct it. Just as soon as I finish swooning.
I'd like to know why you feel guilty, if you feel like you can talk about it.
- cecily
joey, I really have to warn you about the film. Don't get too excited about it. I know everyone loves it and it's a classic, but I also loved the book, and when I finished watching the movie I was so angry at the film and everyone who loves it. There are so many things wrong with the film I can't even describe. Maybe you won't have as extreme a reaction as I did, but I do think you will...
more...
- Rachel Lea Fox
cecily, it's really hard to articulate. There are two parts. One is the issue of race. I think for me, growing up in Seattle I experience racism, classism, and sexism within a context that is very different than the history of the South. We have income disparities, education disparities, police issues, and other institutional factors and I'm not trying to in any way dismiss those…but...
more...
- joey
My experiences growing up here contrast sharply with my first experience visiting my grandmum after she moved to a small town in North Carolina. We were walking into a grocery store and an elderly black gentleman was walking up behind us. I turned to hold the door open for him (as I was taught to do for people, especially for my elders) and was immediately met with the coldest glares...
more...
- joey
So I don't try to pull the wool over my eyes or hide from unpleasantness or horror, but in some ways the cavalier attitude and language that is thrown about in this novel is more shocking to me than some of the more brutal things I've read. It's just so…flippant.
- joey
Amber, you mean things are still like that or particular places are? I'm sure I'm not articulating this well and I'm not trying to say that I think racism is not alive and well, just that I've never read about it from the perspective of white people within a narrative context that is also pleasing. I'm used to avoiding or condemning that kind of attitude from people, not wanting to know more about them.
- joey
cecily, also, I feel guilty for the ways in which I might be Scarlett. And Melanie, at this point. That may or may not be easier to articulate. I'm only 300 pages in now.
- joey
I live in KY. I don't like leaving my county because of it. Went to one of my friends hometown once and was harassed the whole 30 mins we were there. My (very whit) friends freaked out about it and we left. I was just glad they just thought I was just a black dude and they didn't get to the homophobia part on top of it.
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Amber, I've seen that when visiting NC and I know it from reading the news and hearing stories from you and others and I can't believe something so inhuman could overtake people in the first place let alone in 2009. I KNOW it does, but I just don't see that living here (we have our own institutional oppressions) and I'm horrified. I'm horrified that I'm reading a book about people who...
more...
- joey
Also, I just want to say that I'm sorry that you or anyone else had to experience that harassment. And I'm glad that they didn't get to the homophobia part...which is another issue that we have here in WA but that tends to manifest itself far differently than what I've seen while in the South.
- joey
not a bad way to go, if you ask me. man, oh, man i like to think that i'd be one of those white folk working the underground railroad...
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Joey, thank you for your honesty. In some ways I understand where you're coming from, and that sensitivity is really hard to find in some sectors of American society. But in other ways, I prefer to thinknof it as a historical record, and evidence of how society has changed. The book was written during a specific historical context about another historical context, and I think as...
more...
- cecily
from iPhone
I will say that as someone who grew up in the south (in "progressive" Atlanta) that those attitudes still exist, especially that whole deference to whites thing. My parents were older - products of the depression - and even though I grew up in a majority black city, they still impressed certain lessons upon me that make me deeply uncomfortable. But I also take Amber's point about the...
more...
- cecily
from iPhone
Cecily, I definitely agree about keeping a historical record...I'm just not used to reading things like this and caring for such flawed characters this deeply, which I suppose is a testament to the writing and their development. Usually I feel more detachment. And I agree that the attitudes exist everywhere (including here...and one could look at legislation and other institutions to see them), but so much to do with social interactions is veiled out here.
- joey
I've never read or seen it. but I hear that the one guy is the other guy's father. And that everyone dies in the end. oops, that didn't spoil it for you did it?
- Morgan Haley
I started to read Gone With The Wind more than a decade ago and couldn't get through it. On a related note, though, I listened to The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn on tape and loved it. I thought it was hilarious. I was able to tune out the "n" words. There was something different about the way it was used back then from the way it's used in the 20th century and today. It wasn't meant in violence and as an insult as often back then. It was just something people said.
- Kamilah Gill
Joey, I think you're feeling about how I feel when I read books by Faulkner (especially Light in August). He has some of the most racist characterizations I've ever read, but I get drawn in and start caring about the characters against my will.
- cecily
I've never read it, but I've read a lot of other fiction that invokes these issues. I do cringe when I read it, but I am able to distance myself from it and place it within its time and place. I'm better at this when I'm reading fiction, though. For a project I read a lot of eugenicist tracts from the early 1900s and those make me positively ill. Really vile stuff. However, knowing that...
more...
- Katy S
I never made it through the whole novel - got stuck somewhere in the middle of the war. It probably didn't help that I'd already seen the movie three or four times before I started reading the book, so the book just felt....really long. I really appreciate reading your viewpoints, joey, cecily, Amber, and Katy. I tend not to be as affected by racism in historical contexts as in...
more...
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I've read "Gone With the Wind" (wrote a paper about it in 10th grade) and the sequel (not by Margaret Mitchell), "Scarlett" after that. Having grown up in the South, I identified with Scarlett a lot (not the debutant aspects, because I was not the "pretty girl" growing up, but with the whole "making due with what you have" and "rising above it all" aspects). Sadly, I don't remember...
more...
- Her Lindsay-ness
Lindsay, I couldn't make it through Scarlet, I feel off about half way through. My bigger problems with the movie were not that they condensed but that they didn't get into the issues enough that they did keep, they cut out sections of her life that make later things not make sense. They changed important details and the one that always irks me the most (Small Spoiler here - its still...
more...
- Rachel Lea Fox
Joey, I think you will appreciate a couple of scenes in the book that happen later after the Reconstruction begins. They define some things that are often glossed over. Mitchell wrote the book after having grown up around those who were not all that far removed from that time period. As a child she played with civil war veterans and listened to the stories of others. I would encourage...
more...
- Melanie Reed
Thanks for the comments, everyone. Kamilah, I remember reading that book too and it being much easier to gloss over and put it in it's place in time. I wonder why Gone with the Wind makes me feel differently. And Melanie, good point. My feelings may change as the story and characters progress. Also, I'll be sure not to expect the film to mirror the book so that I'm not disappointed!
- joey
There is a very important role to be played by vice and villainy in literature and the arts. My concern is that we may remove some of the guts, necessary to healthy purgation and catharsis, by making all characters milquetoast and agreeable. I understand that, during the Middle Ages when the Passion Plays were presented, starring characters with names like 'Hope,' 'Faith' and such, the most popular character was 'Vice'... some embodiment of the 7 Deadly Sins. The crowd would go wild...
- T. Brent, technopeasant
...they were seeing a side of themselves that they, more often than not, did not want to admit they had. But to see it played out vicariously on stage, had a purgative effect... I believe. Shakespeare continued this tradition with his villains, whom I love for the most part. This is NOT to celebrate the behaviour, but to have it purged through art. I embrace some behaviours in characters that I would abhor in real life.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
That being said, I believe that there are responsible and irresponsible ways to render Vice in art.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Brent, the difference between that and Gone With the Wind (and similar literature) is that in Shakespeare and morality plays, it's clear that the Vice characters are bad. We may love to see them, but both we and the original authors know that they are NOT people to emulate in real life. With literature like GWTW, the racist viewpoints represented are not depicted as wrong or bad -...
more...
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Jandy, I was using extreme examples to make a point. The same would apply, too, to characters who have 'dark sides' but are not outright villains. Wrestling with these questions is important. But I am very wary when it comes to the on-going attempts (it seems) to make art bland.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
if you read my last comment: "responsible and irresponsible ways to render Vice in art", you'll see that we agree.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Jandy, I would agree with you, in part, that some villains are more clearly drawn than others, but I wouldn't include blindness as the single qualifier for villainy. I think Brent has a point. Take Macbeth, he seems clearly a villain but not on the order of Iago in Othello. Why? Because Macbeth feels fear over the evil that he has done. Iago does not: he gloats in it.
- Melanie Reed
I would qualify my statement better with parts of GWTW but I would ruin it for Joey. :)
- Melanie Reed
Joey, I really appreciate your honesty & candor about how the racism in the book affects you. I grew up in Florida, and now live out in Liberalstan (currently Bay Area, CA). It has truly boggled my mind on some occasions witnessing the attitude people out here can have about racism. It becomes more subtle and possibly even more sinister out here, but some people seem to believe it...
more...
- Friday Lo is Friday!
Jandy, you summed up my conflicting thoughts far, far better than I could. And it's not that I'm not enjoying the novel at face value or for the fact that it's making me have to think about relating so deeply to such flawed heroes (I actually especially like that). In this case, I don't feel that I can simply dismiss those flaws as 'a product of the times' even though they are (because...
more...
- joey
Joey, what do you think about Scarlett?
- Melanie Reed
Melanie, I think she's fascinating, but at this point in the book (and I'm still at the beginning of the story and know that a lot changes) I find her to be very smart, intuitive, manipulative, over-dramatic, selfish, and immature. And I pretty much love her.
- joey
Melanie, I can't wait to finish the book and watch the movie so that we can really get to talking about this and you can bring up those later parts of the story ;)
- joey
you know.. I've read Scarlett, but can't for the life of me remember if I've read GWTW... dammit. Need to add that to my stack.
- Liana Shanes
Ah, the opening sentence has done its work. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Liana get ready for a huge departure in writing quality. :)
- Melanie Reed
Lo, I agree. It definitely exists in personal behaviors and in institutions; it's just a lot easier for the privileged to be oblivious (either intentionally or not) when it's more subtle than someone burning crosses.
- joey
Joey, I look forward to that as well.
- Melanie Reed
I need to read it! And watch the film. Haven't done either. EDIT: And having just read this thread, I'm fascinated by the insight and conversation.
- Derrick
Joey, super-OT but: my all-time greatest hit in Northern California was a former DHL employee who said he quit his job because "the blacks" were "so lazy," but he suspected their "shitty attitude" was because they hated working for a German-owned company because of the Holocaust. "But that's crap, they're always playing the race card." I thought that bus would never come! :)
- Friday Lo is Friday!
Melanie, no, I agree on the level of the characters themselves. But Shakespeare doesn't gloss over the things Macbeth did; they're clearly wrong. In racist literature, the problem is that the authors often don't have enough distance from it to realize it themselves. The sort of blindness I meant was on the authors' part, not the characters. I don't know enough about Margaret Mitchell...
more...
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I read the first two pages and couldn't get passed those. Is it really so worth it?
- @CrystalinaB
Shakespeare has been accused of it all: racism, misogyny, anti-semitism...
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Crystalina, I'm finding myself really absorbed by it...but I think I had to be in the right frame of mind to finally pick it up (and I didn't really know what to expect...I got it because I was reminded by Cecily that it's a classic film I've never seen and I have a thing about reading a book first) and I thought maybe I'd read it while I languished in our heat wave but I wasn't really ready until now. My copy is 1448 pages. If you're not interested, I don't see any reason to force yourself to read it.
- joey
Good point, Brent. Just saying that considering an author to be innately racist/misogynist/anti-semitic is different than their characters being villains. A villain is an intentional narrative device; if you didn't mean the term in that way, then I misread you initially.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Jandy, I agree that Shakespeare did not gloss over...although I am familiar with the basis for Brent's last post: some people do think it and for those that do I often find they have not read deeply enough. Mitchell was a reporter for a time and a bit of a revolutionist in her thinking. As a book is read the reader has to take into consideration the environment, the time period, the...
more...
- Melanie Reed
Y'all need to read "The Wind Done Gone", a derivative GWTW work that was written from Prissy's point of view.
- cecily
Cecily, I'll have to do that...just waiting for the court case to be done...which I see that it has and I am 7 years behind. ;) btw- Margaret Mitchell would have agreed about the plantation size: she felt it was way over done in the film.
- Melanie Reed
I read GWTW when I was a teenager, and it was, and still is, one of my favorite books. I always found the Civil War fascinating, tragic, and so many other feelings. Sometimes we have to read stories that are hard to take, to understand our history, and where we are in present time. Joey if you're enjoying it now, then I predict you will enjoy the whole book.
- Bonnie Foster
How many pillows is too many? Between the two of us we have 15+ pillows. Disregarding 3 of those as being the special memory foam pillows, it's still excessive. But why is it so hard to figure out which ones to get rid of! We have guests maybe 2-3 times a year, why do I need to have special pillows in case they have NEEDS?
Wow. On the bed, I have two and Akiva has two. I also have one in the closet that has buckwheat in it that I'm not currently using and I have a big pregnancy pillow that I'm obviously not using right now. That's it!
- Rochelle
I have 5 pillows my self but only use 3 in regular circumstances, 2 for my head and 1 to keep my knees from clattering, if I want to lean up in bed to read I use the other 2.
- Jimminy
Do you mean you have 15 pillows on your bed? I've only got four on my bed and four on the guest bed. Do you like those memory foam pillows?
- Sarah June
No, but actually when we moved the old bed out I realized that we had 7 pillows in the room. We go through phases of trying different kinds, especially Phil. We mostly keep them in the closet or on the guest bed.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
I stayed at a hotel once that 8 pillows on the bed. 8. The three in shams were firm enough to stop a bullet.
- Ha3rvey (obviously wrong)
I'm really too lazy to maintain shams. We have them on the guest bed but not the master. We barely make the bed daily.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Actually to be honest Phil makes the bed. Or he makes his side and mostly my side so all I have to do is flip up a corner.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
I have three for me. And I love them all. I should get some extras some time so I don't have to give up one of mine when I have guests. I think I forget about having extras because I always take my pillows with me when I go somewhere (unless I'm flying, in which case I have to make do with whatever's there when I get there), so it surprises me when other people don't.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
God, do I miss a good terrestrial indie station. I've almost forgotten that they exist.
- Helen Sventitsky
CD101.com, Helen. It rocks. I listen to it over the air about 8 hours a day. Locally owned and operated. Through them is how I meet the artists that I do.
- RAPatton
I grew up in Oly, and after reading that article I'd argue the Seattle Freeze extends pretty far south. My kind of people.
- aldenoneil
Another word and the forces will abolish all forms of Cilantro on this planet called Earth, message received from Planet Janet
- Janet
Message to Planet Janet: you know you love it with cilantro, baby.
- Steven Perez
Now see this is the interesting thing: if anybody posts, then you have to. So if everybody keeps posting, you'll just have to keep up with us. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
- CAJ, somewhere else
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
I CAN ATTEST THAT PEA IS, IN FACT, ALL SUGAR AND SPICE AND EVERYTHING NICE. Argue that, and let's see how mean you really wanna be. In the meantime, my head hurts so discuss this amongst yourselves. You can summarize it for me later.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Debating tip: never try to get in the last word. Always give your opponent the opportunity to get in the last word. By some sort of mysterious karmic law, your persuasiveness will improve immeasurably. :)
- Sean McBride
Steven Perez isn't a Bunneh!!! As long as he doesn't respond.
- Jimminy
This is a point that can never be proved, nor disproved until all but one of us are dead.
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
So... it's kind of like a "tontine" but with a pretty weak payoff?
- Mark Jepsen
Hmmm, actually, it only needs to continue until Steven Perez is dead (of very old age, i of course hope). Our victory is guaranteed. Of course, if friendfeed gets eaten by fb, it's just going to be a race to get the last comment in before the site goes down.
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
It's okay, he's got a Catch-22 now. Steven Perez isn't a Bunneh, so long as he doesn't respond. And we all know he refutes his Bunneh status.
- Jimminy
It was real hawt in the town that night! IF I EDIT 18 hours later like now - is your last still last if comments are disabled? A hawt question.
- L Stephen Cleary
Steven is a Bunneh!!! He responded when I said he wasn't. Bunneh's can win if they want.
- Jimminy
Steven, I'm sure that not even you would resort to cheating to get the last word. I vote we just find the comment limit. It's gonna be a number ending in '0'
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
You did see where I said that I like my food scared and running, yeah? Mmmmm, ferret-ka-bobs ...
- Steven Perez
from IM
I do indeed see where this is headed, and no sir, I don't like it. *calls upon the forces of Voltron
- Tsali, The Native of FF
from IM
Sadly, the only Voltron to heed your call is the vehicle Voltron. And I disabled that yo-yo by pulling out the sparks plugs in the car feet.
- Steven Perez
from IM
very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy
- Steven Perez
from IM
VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY
- Steven Perez
from IM
I think friendfeed only put the extra "Add comment" link at the bottom of threads because of this specific thread. It took me a full 20 seconds to scroll from one end of it to the other.
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
hmm... 800+ comments on this thread, and this is my first, and probably last comment on this thread. I wonder should I read all the comments, or just post?
- Mike Nencetti