socialmediaethics_#bct09

exactly - what if you know that the question is really - 'you do it, or you leave' type of speech? what can you refer to to protect your interest, and your freedom of speech? - Sylwia Presley

good question - Marietta Le

I'd ask them why they felt so threatened by the truth. - Alison Wheeler

I agree, but I also think it's a question of legalities - disclaimer on your blog, social media policy of the company - if this in not in place general law applies and you should negotiate. Problem arrises when you are laid off for a different, made up reason;)! - Sylwia Presley

There are, of course, also differences in law between countries. Libel law in UK is very different to that in USA. Danger of 'sour grapes' in your latter case! - Alison Wheeler

Truth, but the more you have written down on paper, the better, I think companies are moving towards social media policies for their own sake, don't you think? - Sylwia Presley

I agree with you Sylwia. - Marietta Le

Isn't this a typical case of mismatch between professional and personal values? Aren't we seeing a gradual bridging of this gap though, more so in progressive companies ofcourse? - Kedar Iyer

I think so, I think due to few unpleasant cases (Domino Pizza employees etc) it's in the interest of companies to define - on paper - what their social media policy is. This makes blogging more transparent too. However, there still will be cases of people fired/discouraged from work with excuses, but really, indirectly for their blogging, I think. - Sylwia Presley

For me, currently, the professional is personal as freelance, but issue still remains as I have to 'double-think' the effect of a post/comment/blog/tweet on the views of a prospective or current client doing due diligence on me. Shades of 1984 somehow! - Alison Wheeler

I know a cool researcher for Human Rights Watch in the Middle East who was pressured to stop blogging by HRW. So much for free speech :) - dan

In Germany blogging is perceived as profession, so people Google your name before inviting you for interview to check potential client conflict... my German friend living in the UK blogs anonymously... - Sylwia Presley

Dan - that is very bad, unless they were releasing privileged or otherwise ;dangerous' information by doing so. Which is, of course, the ethics question itself! - Alison Wheeler

it sounds horrible indeed... - Sylwia Presley

Sylwia: for employers it's almost 'normal' to check applicants via Google or, try to check their profile on FB - Marietta Le

yes, but if I am not friendly with - let's say Mac - today, why would it mean I cannot work for them in the future? my opinions can change in time... - Sylwia Presley

Marietta - I certainly check out (stalk?) possible lovers online to check their politics, ethics, etc! - Alison Wheeler

Nothing to do with privileged info. This guy is ultra-careful; he's a human rights researcher. It had everything to do with 'message control' - a sympton of all centralised bureaucracies, only a bit more shocking when they are supposedly 'for' human rights. So does social media simultaneously reveal the limits of hierarchical NGOs and offer an alternative e.g. the social startup? - dan

so we can say it's okay that everybody checks everybody online, the problem is that the information found there may limit our opinion on the person checked, it's for the companies too, they just decided that they won't take Sylwia because she is not familiar with Mac and that's all :) - Marietta Le

Dan, I think it's better to somehow cooperate because both NGOs and social startups have their limits and use different practices in lobbying - Marietta Le

oh, well, I do intend to get an iPhone next weekend:) so maybe I stand the chance:) but seriously - I think people should have more insights and check if the opinions we share once have been related to our work at the time - which proves loyalty or it's lack... - Sylwia Presley

or check if you are open-minded enough to change your mind :) - Marietta Le

indeed:) - Sylwia Presley

although I can't control what others write about me online (ie which may be discoverable by others) I can *to an extent* manage the likelihood of something getting disclosed which I might not want seen by others by not discussing it under my real name and only pseudonym. I see this as ethical; not all will. - Alison Wheeler

yes, but the two types of content differ so much - what you write is genuinely truth - it's your words; what other write is their opinion - basically speculations, no? - Sylwia Presley

I'm reminded of a long from a song: "We all have truths - are mine the same as yours". My words are my truth; your words are your truth. Different standpoints though. - Alison Wheeler

APOLOGIES - first sentence was meant to be a quote:./ - Sylwia Presley

(no prob!) I believe this comes down to a 'body of work' argument. Anonymous is a great writer/composer, as were various women writing under men's names in order to get published. Similar argument imho - Alison Wheeler

isn't dangerous to trust a voice like this on-line though? - Sylwia Presley

of course, hence the length of time is important. years not days. example: how many 'fake' twitterers there hae been unmasked - Alison Wheeler

truth, I agree...I just wait to see one of the leading voices (Tweeterer, blogger etc) to be disclosed as a governmental spy or something similiar - I read to many Clancy books as a kid;) (joke) - Sylwia Presley

some of my favourite blogs are pseudonymous, and I'm glad they are as I've grown to trust them more. Sometimes it is ok when they are unmasked - NeeNaw, Random, etc - but not always - Alison Wheeler

I am actually worried about them - I remember what Zoe Margolis and Salam Pax went through and how it changed their life...ok, some - like them- are strong and turn it all around - but what if they are not?:/ - Sylwia Presley

I suspect it depends on how your output (blog/tweets/identity) are seen. whistleblower or naughty-but-nice-really. - Alison Wheeler

Ah, good to have you for a few minutes at least:) hold on, will ask in main thread... - Sylwia Presley

Thanks of the invitation. I hope we'll have a chance to carry on a interesting conversation soon enought. Take care! - Michal Wicinski

I'm sorry I have to leave now, but thanks for sharing your opinions. I really liked it. Good night! :) - Marietta Le

Thank you for coming:) Have a nice weeken! Jo ejt! - Sylwia Presley

I always wondered if for example internet is the ultimate source of free speech or we can't let everything appear on the web - Marietta Le

it's not so much what the ethics _are_ (not a given) but what we want them to be. can social media amplify certain kinds of ethics e.g. peer to peer - dan

I'm not sure it *is* "free speech" though .. like most things said with your own name on you take some care. Only anonymous can be truly 'free' I would suggest - Alison Wheeler

Dan, i think it can - by the dynamics of the venue (FB, Twitter, blog) and by the reactions of the users. from that point of view web is a perfect democracy...unless you pretend who you are;) - Sylwia Presley

Sllwia ... thing is, though, I have another identity to this (realname) one which in one sense is 'pretend' yet its longevity has imbued it with 'realness' in the eyes of others - Alison Wheeler

for a Hungarian newspaper - Marietta Le

ah, are you going to write about privacy on specific sites - like Facebook, MySpace or more generally? In global venues or regional - like Hungarian iWIW (btw extremely interesting how it developed;) - Sylwia Presley

generally because ppl are not so used to use/change privacy settings and e.g. we had problems with that kuruc.info an extreme right website published screenshots of Iwiw profiles - Marietta Le

ah, did they really?! gosh! and iWIW? for me iWIW is a symbol of privacy - I mean it all started with pretty closed community - we had to ask friends for invites, and getting one was pretty much a privilege, hence why in the beginning WIW (not iWIW yet) was perceived as cultural, slightly alternative elite of Pest and Hungary... - Sylwia Presley

no it's not like that now. and still you have to ask for invites but everybody can see each other's profile so kuruc.info just picked a screenshot from the profiles of the "jews" and published them with extreme right comments on their website - Marietta Le

shit! I mean I saw them publishing photos of gay parade leaders with their addresses (what for, we all know) but this is a very serious issue! I think that might be a reason why Facebook is so closed, and opening only now - although I must say there can be plenty other reasons, like economical for instance... - Sylwia Presley

I believe that each and every site of such type should have configurable privacy level settings, so that everyone can decide how much would like he share of his life. Isn't it like this over there? - Michal Wicinski

It is... - Ahmed

well, in a lot of websites, like Twitter for example, you can choose to make your page private... - Ahmed

btw it doesn't help if you make your profile private because if websites like kuruc.info want to publish private data about you they ask a less closer friend of yours to make a screenshot - Marietta Le

But what's the case here? People's pictures, or more private data such as addresses etc? - Michal Wicinski

I think, Maretta, you have touched upon something I am extremely interested in recently - difference between law and morality - ok, terms and conditions, technical settings, and regional laws say one thing - but each of us STILL can misbehave...what motivates us then to do it right? I think (looking at Twitter and blogging) that on-line presence is self-regulatory - if you behave, people support you, if you fail - you are finished and it's hard to gain trust again... - Sylwia Presley

Michal - we are talking about a site which is closed, but internally you have access to everything the users put on their profile, so you can potentially misuse it:/ - Sylwia Presley

I see (I wasn't familiar with that site so please forgive me that lack of knowledge) - Michal Wicinski

no, Michal, it's perfectly ok, you had a good question - I just explained how it works;) you see photos, and if people put their address - you can get this - but there is no option to limit privacy settings - and I think Marietta is right - even if you do - someone can pretend to be your friend, even actually go out for a beer with you offline - and use it against you... - Sylwia Presley

So it is, a very tough case there. But apart from this site, I believe Sylwia that you should draw a line between blogging facebook-like services. In facebook (and others) you choose yourself who can see your data. If you're unsure if you can trust someone, don't "invite him". But "public" blogging, where literally everyone can see what you post is different. You must remember the case... more... - Michal Wicinski

yes but turning a little back to Sylwia's point, you can't do anything against those who share your data doesn't matter from where did they get it - Marietta Le

I'm sorry ladies, but I have to run. I'd love to continue the chat but I really must go. I'll read the conversation later and will be looking for a chance to do a followup. All the best! - Michal Wicinski

Bye Michal - Marietta Le

bye!:) thx for stepping by! - Sylwia Presley

Marietta - if you have law protecting your privacy - you can. I think it's a question of law being able to predict moral misusage...and people actually treating it seriously... - Sylwia Presley

yes. I'd like that ppl would tell what they want as a law of privacy, I mean net users should create something before central regulations come - Marietta Le

this is why it's interesting to see companies like Facebook trying to listen to the users, adjust the openness of the site and by this changing the commonly accepted behavior? just brainstorming really.. - Sylwia Presley

you think they really try to listen? - Marietta Le

I think if they want to keep the users they have to - at least to a certain extend, yes - Sylwia Presley

I'm not entirely sure they do... Facebook for example has a vast number of users, mostly they don't care about the TOS which give ownership and rights over all media. Sure, there are privacy settings (which are respected in most cases) but who uses them? Is awareness of the issues going to stop people using it? If all your friends are on FB... can you really use something else? Sounds like a case for good network federalisation to me... - Marcus Povey

Great thread. I agree with Sylwia that there's a gap between law & behaviour: i used to work for Amnesty, my sad conclusion is that 40 years of work on international human rights law has done nothing to prevent future genocides. So human rights _culture_ is the gap, - dan

@dan omg, so well summarized - Marietta Le

yes, Dan, and even though I would love to work for Amnesty or Oxfam one day, i still feel it's like fighting the devil...but maybe there is a way to bring the two closer? I mean law and morality? - Sylwia Presley

And I agree with Marcus about ToS, network federalisation etc. Here's a related post I wrote a while back about the radical difference between the ideals of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) and the realities of the Terms of Service agreements http://www.internetartizans.co.uk/a_freed... - dan

Seriously.. All kinds of problems which involve acts that might be taken as WRONG, offensive, not fair - Michal Wicinski

Concerning social media - that is micro blogging services, all kinds of facebook-like sites etc. First examples that come to my mind are harsh moderating conversations, applying controversial "terms and conditions".. - Michal Wicinski

what do you mean by wrong? - Marietta Le

:) It's like describing "ethics" - there is no subtle definition I guess what can be described as sth wrong. I'd try to give it a shot and say that it's all that the local community isn't used to and which attacks in some way their privacy - Michal Wicinski

ok, I like it :) - Marietta Le

see, that is interesting, because that is why I was so pissed off with Twitter - their 2000 followed restriction - because when I joined I did not know about it...and I thought I am doing everything ok. Then they started working on anti-spamming policy, and I got taken off search (hashtags) for retweeting probably...it annoys me I could not really contact them to discuss and you know - I did not know in advance...I did read the T&C - it's my job:) - Sylwia Presley

I think they're trying to use their advantage - on every step you can read that Twitter this, oh and Twitter that.. Maybe they just believe they're big, 'powerful' enough to make such decision on their own - forgetting at the same time that the core of their existence IS the community they "forgot" to ask for their opinion or at least inform them in advance. - Michal Wicinski

maybe, or maybe they want to restrict powerful users to provide sold services to companies? whatever is the case I DO lack transparency here, and I think it's rather one sided... - Sylwia Presley

We can't forget that twitter, in the very end, is not a "gift for the community", but it's a business. The case is how they're planning to monetize it. - Michal Wicinski

that's why I am always afraid that they will use these social networking sites for something wrong - Marietta Le