interesting. you seem to discount FF as an aggregation of a bunch of "bloggers and would-be bloggers." With the explosive number of blogs and bloggers out there now, isn't that a little like saying, "that's just a group of people with email addresses"? - Christian Anderson
I didn't say Twitter or FF is small. (Twitter specifically has lots of active users.) I wanted to question whether influentials in tech were active users of either. That's why I asked "which vanguard does FriendFeed and Twitter have a lock on?" - Gabe Rivera
Do you consider robert scoble, louis gray, duncan riley mike arrington, allen stern, dave winer, wall street journal, business week influential? - Christian Anderson via fftogo
TOTALLY WRONG "the vast majority of early adopters, executives, journalists, and “influencer's” in technology are not actively monitoring FriendFeed or Twitter" - am an early adopter, beta tester and worked within tech incubations. Just because some executives, influencer's of tech dont participate on twitter /ff does not mean that they do not know the value props behind it. Trust me the - “influencer's” r certainly working scenarios to dove the twiiter/ff paradigms to suite their agendas. - Peter Dawson
Christian: you're not refuting my point at all. Peter: you're actually supporting my point. - Gabe Rivera
Gabe, the key is "actively monitoring".I can actively monitor a alpha/beta site w/out having to be hands-on. I get my day briefs and check the dev dashboard and I know pretty well, what ishappening in the sandbox. - Peter Dawson
Gabe, might it increase TechMeme's usefulness and make it more unique if it also looked at FriendFeed and Twitter activity when ranking content? It seems like you're in a position to wade through even more of the noise and distill out the interesting bits. - David Recordon
Gabe, I don't think it's a matter of authority (which seems to be your argument), but *velocity*. FF is now surfacing news faster, though it may not have the authority that comes from having been passed through the members of the Leaderboard. If "influencers" aren't using it yet, they will be. The fact that Arrington is now posting messages here (and no longer just alerting about posts to TC) is a leading indicator. - Sprague D
I'm not trying to refute anything. Whether Scoble is included on Techmeme or not isn't overly important to me. I would like to understand the points you make in the comment you linked from Scoble's blog to FF. - Christian Anderson
You say, "The vast majority of “influencers” are not actively monitoring FriendFeed or Twitter." I gave you a list of highly influential media here on FF (more on Twitter). You discount FF users as just "bloggers or would-be bloggers." I say everyone has a blog, and liken your characterization to FF just being made up of people who have email accounts. what is your point? - Christian Anderson
seems to me the right answer was something closer to "getting on Techmeme is based on complex algorithms... Scoble is a smart and important guy. His stuff just has landed him on the leaderboard currently." why disparage FF the Twitter as made up of a bunch of people you don't seem to think are too important? - Christian Anderson
I meet influencers all over the world. It is a rare day when I meet one in tech industry that isn't on Twitter. Today I met a couple, including a developer on Blogger who are here on FF. - Robert Scoble
But, it doesn't matter. I have proven you can get in nearly every newspaper in the world by telling hot news to 15 people. - Robert Scoble
Does that mean Techmeme vs. FriendFeed = old media vs. new media? - Kerem Ozkan
FriendFeed is more disruptive lately than Techmeme. But smaller things are more interesting to me than bigger things. - Robert Scoble
Christian: http://is.gd/MvS Robert: why not start asking people "Do you follow me on Twitter?" after "So who are you?" - Gabe Rivera
I do learn a lot from FF, and twitter, but I am now trying to figure out how to "use"it to move some things forward. I think some things just get lost on FF, if that makes sense. - Robert
BTW, I didn't want to overcomplicate my remarks earlier, but there's also the point that the Twitter userbase is much larger than the people who come into contact with Robert's tweets (Twitter users >> Scobleizer followers). So as Twitter grows, and I expect it to, the # of influencers on Twitter will grow. But that still doesn't mean Robert's ability to reach them will grow at the same rate. - Gabe Rivera
Gabe: funny you should say that. It is what I ask people off camera lately. - Robert Scoble
Gabe: I still don't get your point. Why does this matter? - Robert Scoble
@Robert Scoble do you find yourself leaning towards FF or twitter, or using them both in different ways at this point... - Robert
Hah, I changed my comment above, before I saw you replied, but for the record, I want you to ask for their Twitter ID. That would be interesting and even informative. Though it doesn't really support or refute my earlier point all that much. - Gabe Rivera
I have been searching for people who are using FF for a business use... not coming up with much, even though I know networking is business... You have any pointers or thoughts... How would you tell a startup to use FF other than networking? - Robert
Gabe: is the proof of example link intended to illustrate what i was doing or what you were doing? - Christian Anderson
"what is your point? " , Gabe is onto something here.. Growth is not directly related to Influencer's, rather akin to the law of diminishing returns - Peter Dawson
Marketing life sucks these days. There is no ONE way to reach "the influencers". And what defines early adopters or influencers is changing by the second. Everyone talks about the death of mass media but networked thinking still hasn't really been absorbed by our industry. I think Gabe is dead on. And i think my life would have been easier if i had just gone into law like my parents wanted. - leigh himel
There ARE numerous VC's watching and/or commenting on Friendfeed. They're the 'bank for today' - Charlie Anzman
I think so. You can definitely reach me via those services and probably quicker than via email. - Corvida
That's what I've been trying to say (not that it's anyone's fault though) -- that TM is what it is, and its strong point is not speed. It might never catch identi.ca as a top story, but if it got acquired by Microsoft or Google or TechCrunch, it would zoom right to the top and stay there. It's the nature of news, it starts out small and as it grows it settles on a few stories and repeats them over and over until something new starts, and we start over again. - Dave Winer
That's why I started TechJunk after doing the same thing for political news. Not to strangle the market (which is what TM/TC does, again no one's fault) but to act as a pied piper. As with blogging the way to get around group think is with individual judgment. Pretty soon the flaming will start, btw. :-) - Dave Winer
This is what I mean when I say that TechMeme has changed. Gabe is chasing Google News with TechMeme now, not covering what regular people care about. Although the YouTube story that's on top right now is pretty important for us to know about and care about too. I think this is why I look at FriendFeed AND Techmeme. If you do that you get a good view of all stories. - Robert Scoble
Why do you need to write about Identi.ca on Twitter and not the other way around? - paul mooney
i didnt see it hit my google reader feed at all, only on friendfeed. @scobleizer "regular people" don't care about it at all. - Jeremy Toeman
Dave's comment on speed and TM seems spot on -- I just looked at TM for the first time in week -- all the top stories are old (to the extent that they have been talked about on FF and maybe Twitter if it were ever running for hours and sometimes days) - Brian Sullivan
Scoble, maybe its conscious on Gabe's part or maybe the algorithm now does what all human beings do when put in the same position. It happened in the 90s when the computer press only reported three stories: Apple is dead, Microsoft is evil and Java is the future. If you tried to say blogging is the future and Windows is dead, and there is new Mac software, and Java makes lousy UIs and will be used server-side only, and check out Flash, no one would have written it up. - Dave Winer
You can fill in the blanks on what the big stories are in the late part of this decade (oy it's already the late part of the decade). When you look back ten years from now, it will be clear (probably) that Google has already peaked, and what was Viacom again? Scoble will be the new Master of the Universe, and TechCrunch will be about as interesting as News.com and Wired are today. - Dave Winer
Now will Twitter be the main pillar of the new Internet, or will something like Apache be that? People like me believe it's the Apache model that's likely to galvanize this. Twitter needs to fade into the background the same way Apache did and the same way blogging software did. But Twitter is doing everything they can to be sure they are front and center, which creates this conflict. In March they *were* starting to fade into the background, and great new things were happening there, esp in politics. - Dave Winer
Maybe it is because it is so slow and this morning I can't log in. - Warner Crocker
Early yesterday I was getting a downloadable file rather than the site and couldn't register until later in the afternoon. I couldn't even go to profiles without being asked to download a file. Very strange. This morning I stopped using it because the site was too slow. - LPH
identica.ca seems to be a direct clone of twitter - even down to the preformance issues... - Tom Quinn
There is no doubt that a new site like identi.ca will suffer growing pains and performance problems. The big question in my mind is whether or not the community will contribute something to this open source project and try to make it better or just piss and moan about it. - Mike Doeff
They have a weird bug - their page redirects to a sub domain of their company, where the Identi.ca-code, but the links go back to Identi.ca, but form data isn't sent back to the company-sub-domain when they redirect you back. If you change the form-actions with Firebug, everything works. - sebmos
Techmeme should start linking FF discussion threads as "official" links on stories. They are frequently more interesting than what the other bloggers have to say about the same story. Not sure exactly how to do this but Gabe's pretty smart and I'm sure could figure out a way to do it. - Thomas Hawk
@Thomas...ahhhhhhhhh..brilliant idea !! Thats extacly what techmeme s/do and not only with FF butt other forum driven sites too - Peter Dawson
because techmeme are facists.. only a little though - Tyler
thats a great idea thomas - take away more from the people who create the content - love it! - Allen Stern
Oh my Godwin! I've been waiting nearly three years for someone to make such a comparison. Thank you Tyler! - Gabe Rivera
who is godwin, i dont see his or her comment? - Allen Stern
We all create the content Allen. Techmeme already links digg submissions to stories sometimes. I find the conversations at FF more interesting and mature frequently than the conversations at digg. It would seem a good fit to me. I'm sure Gabe could figure it out if he thought it added value. - Thomas Hawk
Ok Thomas thanks for your clarification. I am just hoping I get a lead sometime this week. - Allen Stern
Thomas: agreed FF threads tend to be be better than corresponding digg threads. But the problem with FF is the commentary around a post is typically scattered over multiple threads and often tricky to associate by machine (note Duncan's tweet above lacks a link). It's a partially solvable problem, but probably not worth it just to get FF comments right now. - Gabe Rivera
I never figured out what identi.ca was (Twitter clone? something else?) - but I made an account. :) - Don MacAskill
Funny.I got info about Identi.ca from Techmeme.You? - Igor Poltavskiy
Even I'VE never referred to Techmeme as "fascists." @Allen, I'm assuming Seth Godwin? may have been on his blog. - Cyndy
cyndy isnt that seth godin? im confused now - Allen Stern
Cyndy, read what Gabe wrote again. Gabe is talking to Tyler, who compared Techmeme to fascism. - Dan Kaplan
That's what I meant, Allen. Never mind. I'm confusing myself just replying. :) - Cyndy
Oh how I love FriendFeed! I've really really enjoyed reading this thread. I will now post a summary of what we've seen so far. - Gabe Rivera
SYNOPSIS: identi.ca, which almost topped Techmeme, should have topped Techmeme, because it's open source and therefore not just another buggy Twitter clone. This illustrates the problem with Techmeme, which TechJunk will help fix, and site owner Dave Winer should know because he knew 10 years ago what would be true and important today in tech. "Regular people" don't care about what's on Techmeme, but do, and should. (That last point was argued by the same person.) Techmeme may or may not be analogous to the Third Reich. Mike Godwin may or may not be Seth Godin. - Gabe Rivera
If it didn't sting so much that Synopsis would be hilarious - Nathan Eckenrode
Identi.ca is cool - but the GPL 3.0 license dramatically limits its usefulness as a base for other services to build from. - Soulhuntre via twhirl
this thread should've ended with the synopsis. nothing else will possibly add further value. including this comment. - Jeremy Toeman
@gaberivera's synopsis just gave me my first actual belly laugh of the day; and still giggling a little. Thanks, Gabe. - Merredith Branscombe
Gabe, I love the synopsis. So, you were comparing Seth Godin to the Third Reich right? ;) - Jackson Miller
Jackson, no -- not a fair comparison because people are still allowed to *comment* on the Third Reich. - Merredith Branscombe
oh if there is reference to Godwins law - then who are the Nazi's and who is Hitler on this thread ?? :)- - Peter Dawson
I think in this case TechMeme = Fascists = Nazis, which would make Gabe Hitler. (Disclaimer: This comment in no way, shape or form refelcts the opinion of the commenter and is simply a point of clarification.) - Ken Sheppardson
Why is this supposedly a big story? Someone whips together a PHP app backed by a database and open sources it... woo hoo... How many people commenting on this or claiming it's a big deal have contributed to an open soure project? How many have run one that's gotten any traction? I've done and continue to do both. I think you all wet yourselves over the term without understanding when it is and isn't valuable. Tell me what value open source has in a web service? None. Gimme a break... this is rightly a non-story. - Jason Carreira via twhirl
This FF made me laugh. I'm glad I advertised on TechMeme. Everyone is looking at TechMeme to try to figure out the algorithm and whether or not Gabe is evil. :-) - Robert Scoble
"Another small hack is to filter Techmeme so you only get stories about non-major companies. I’ve started [this Yahoo Pipe] for those who want it." - Duncan Riley?, The Inquisitr http://inquisitr.com/1333/tech... - Mitchell Tsai
The pipe takes the Techmeme Firehose and blocks stories from or about Google, Facebook, Twitter, TechCrunch and a few others. If anyone has any suggestions of other companies that should be blocked (I need to add to the list, just haven’t sat down yet to do a full list) feel free to comment. - Mitchell Tsai
That's awesome. Can you filter out phrases like "web 2.0" or "social networking"? - Eric Florenzano
I basically spoofed his email using the very basic telnet to port 25 trick. But Posterous's anti-spoofing caught it (see http://posterous.com/faq ). Though I imagine for a highly visible blog it'll be difficult for Posterous to filter effectively without causing too many false positives. - Gabe Rivera
Any particular reason why they don't use a FriendFeed (mail2ff.com) like scheme for posting to the blog. - Atul Arora
I gotta be honest - I don't have reliability issues with GMail, and I'm in almost 24/7. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Mark: yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Gmail users are not evenly distributed over the affected infrastructure. E.g., maybe some users are on the "good servers" while others are on the bad ones, or something like that. - Gabe Rivera
“I'd use Friendfeed if it didn't just aggregate and allow, but let me take actions with the same services. Like post to del.icio.us or Twitter. Seems one sided so far.”
I'd use FriendFeed if it allowed me to physically slap users. - Gabe Rivera
Ross - one thing I've found with regard to FriendFeed is that the interactions here are key. FriendFeed has the most compelling participation experience I've found. And the participation is around ideas and content. It seems to me this is the future of effective collaborative work inside the enterprise. Wikis are good at multiple authoring and version control. But they could really use better participation hooks. - Hutch Carpenter
Oh, and I meant "allow_comments" thusly, and at least I can edit thusly - Ross Mayfield
Yes it is here, but going out and visiting a linked app has not proven to be a burden. Twitter replies can be executed directly from FriendFeed. Maybe more down the road will be added. But the interactions are the fuel of FriendFeed, not the API calls out to other services. I'm going to give you one example where a combination of FriendFeed and external blogs managed to get a web app created among parties who only know each other through FriendFeed: http://bhc3.wordpress.com/2008... - Hutch Carpenter
How do I reply to your comment on Twitter? - Ross Mayfield
Can't any message include token(s) that could be read by a service via the FriendFeed API and be interpreted to do pretty much anything you'd want? That said, I'd be concerned about complexity and recursion when going bi-directional. - scott anderson
You should see a tweet from me shortly. It's also a comment under your tweet to this message. - Hutch Carpenter
scott, recursion sounds neat, like a burning man made of servers, lets do it! - Ross Mayfield
An interesting point that has been been brought up here before is what happens when you import your exported FriendFeed Atom feed back into your FriendFeed account. - scott anderson
Need to follow @bobbarr one smart guy! Stands for Liberty, President for 2008 - Igor The Troll
It's happened every day at around the same time for the last 3-4 days. The weirder thing is the box of content pulled from Moreover....not standard Plesk that I'm aware of. - Duncan Riley
Techmeme was like that 48 hours ago, for about a half hour. If you've seen that anytime SINCE then, perhaps your browser is caching an old version? Hit Command-Shift-R (Control-Shift-R on Windows). - Gabe Rivera
I'm seeing an error page called - virtual directory not found.. - John Furrier
Gabe I saw it last night on a machine last night that hadn't been used in a few days. - Dave Winer
“Ever notice how new products almost never make it on TechMeme these days. They don't even appear. This is loop back to why I started blogging. The industry press was ignoring the interesting stuff and only paying attention to what the BigCos were doing. Time for a new route-around coming soon?”
FriendFeed, for now, seems to working well as long as you don't only follow the a-list. - Ray Grieselhuber
There is a risk in Friendfeed that you will only ever see the comments of a small subset of the FF population - interspersed with the odd Friend of... who may make it "In" - Rooms has the potential to widen the gene pool but sticking to the friends tab can definitely limit the number of names you will see... - David W
I don't feel a need to reinvent the web inside of FF. However it is part of what I do, in the same way Twitter is. I like FF better, but only marginally better. It's very far from the ideal. None of these guys have managed to combine all the elements the way plain old HTML does it so well. It's nice in some ways but a big step backward in others. - Dave Winer
oh don't you worry the "BigCos" and slooow media will always end up being displaced; it's a law of nature, soon to be documented and displaced - Billy Shipp via twhirl
Yeah. It's a big old loop we're in. And watch for the moments when new products don't get any air. That means the routearound is just about to begin. - Dave Winer
BTW its weird but Techmeme is down now. What a day! - Dave Winer
reinventing if needed is fine but to get a new look I guess, it's like starting over again a little bit. - Jack
Dave: I disagree to a point. If you look at Techmeme stories from my blog in May and June alone, you can see stories on Loud3r, Feedly, Disqus, Sezwho, FFToGo, and Shyftr, for example. It could be that Techmeme is accurately monitoring the most discussed blogs, and that the vast majority of these blogs are talking less about new products. Link: http://tinyurl.com/4nscbe - Louis Gray
Dave, I don't disagree, but having said that I don't believe its Technemes fault, it is designed to follow the peak noise and ultimately thats around the big players. What we need is a techmeme like service that blocks techcrunch and any mention of a defined list of companies such as google, facebook etc so we can cut through the noise - Duncan Riley via fftogo
Nah, I think the blogosphere and devices like Twitter and FriendFeed show me cool things all the time. When you rely on one aggregator/editor for information... things you are interested in slip through. If you leave it up to crowdsourcing, you see what you want. - Andrew Ruess
Louis -- that's kind of the point -- those products didn't launch well, and with no slight to you -- I haven't heard of them because I depend on TechMeme to tell me what's important in the tech world. TechMeme does what it does well, but it has some real limits and the industry has shaped around those limits, just as the industry shaped around the limits of the press in the pre-Internet era and during the browser and Java wars in the 90s. - Dave Winer
I think there needs to be a website where people can list the new products and services, that way its very easy to find out and support new services like SocialBrowse and A.viary that I would have never found if it wasn't for the invites friendfeed channel - Chacha
are you thinking of a parallel twitter system based on RSS and an associated XXXmeme? - feedlyqa
Dave, I guess the answer is on your website http://www.scripting.com/ (note: permalinks on the website seem to be broken). how do you envision people creating http://twitter.scripting.com/d...? SwitchAbit? Friendfeed? (or the point is that you do not care?) - feedlyqa
@Chacha i made a new product/software category @ http://www.socialmedian.com/ try *solacetech* as an invite code and tell me if that's what you had in mind - Anthony Farrior
I would find it interesting to hear less breaking news and new startups. Instead more analytics on the guys that are doing it right. Why are they successful? Nine out of 10 new startups don't seem to be launching something that addresses an actual need, instead they launch a technology. We have enough technology already, so that fails. And providing us with next gen social ad business models ain't going to work either ;-) - Alexander van Elsas
I really liked Fred Wilson's suggestion to make a TechMeme that was for individual bloggers only. No branded blogs like TechCrunch, Engadget, VentureBeat... just Scripting, AVC, Scoble, etc. This would cast a much more individual net, which I think would really increase diversity. PeopleMeme - Jason Calacanis
Jason, a good idea:-) BTW TechMeme could be improved vastly if it could ignore 3 types of post: 1) any posts that say "Breaking News" 2) posts that copy the exact content of another post and add 1-2 lines to them (echo echo) 3) Anything, and I mean anything that discusses the performance of Twitter at this moment. Removing any of those would make TechMeme probably 100% more interesting and diverse already. Is Gabe listening? ;-) - Alexander van Elsas
Alexander, Gabe always listens. He's one of the best I've seen for monitoring his service online. He's out of town until July 8th, so may be checking things less. - Louis Gray
Well they sound like easy fixes, so I hope he has the time to implement them. Come to think of it, it would be great if each of us can have it's own TechMeme algorithm ;-) - Alexander van Elsas
Maybe the route-around is to read Louis Gray. - Jason Kaneshiro
I have been reading TechMeme less and less lately. I guess that means it's about to go mainstream! :-) - Robert Scoble
My route-around is to read Louis Gray. That's for sure. But he'll be slowed down by two new babies. But I have a lot to say on this topic. The thing is that the early adopters are way ahead of most of the world and the rest of the world needs to catch up before we can see a ton of new stuff again that'll be successful. In the area of work, for instance, on the Office 2.0 database there are more than 800 services. How many of them have any of us tried? I bet a VERY SMALL percentage. - Robert Scoble
Can't slow me down. My Thursday/Friday gap was as we were at the hospital, fattening up Sarah, but my bet is that's a blip. Two new services, never blogged about by anyone ever on Techmeme, hit the blog today. :-) - Louis Gray
I have to disagree. Been seeing more new sources as relatively unknown sources appearing on Techmeme all the time (possibly not this past week?) ... but I read Louis ... and sometimes Robert too :) - Charlie Anzman
I hope Sarah gets fat enough to release louis from fear so he can help us again :-) - Francine Hardaway via twhirl
Yep, I'm listening, and appreciate the ideas. But I'm in disagreement with many people here. I can't give alot of weight to requests for coverage of new products from people who provide coverage of new products (or the products themself). And I can't give undue weight to requests for more personal blogs from personal bloggers. These suggestions are somewhat helpful, but don't speak for the vast majority of Techmeme's readers, who don't use FriendFeed or even leave comments on blogs. So why does Techmeme overlook alot of new products? Maybe there's new product fatigue. Though product launches are accelerating, people are sensing that most don't hold a lot of promise for disruption or significant growth. I'm certainly not the first to observe this. - Gabe Rivera
It would be interesting to see if someone were to calculate a success/fail ratio on these new products AND relate that to the amount of hype created in some breaking news blogs. I could tell you the outcome, no correlation at all. You either execute right or you don't. The power of the "Hype Blog" review isn't sustainable or accessible for users beyond the early adopters. - Alexander van Elsas
maybe it's just me, but i think there's a "fatigue bar" that keeps going up to get people excited about new products. i think it's more interesting to talk more about things that appear to be getting some traction than any smart little thing that releases. traction > launching - Charles Hudson
I get paid to write about start-ups, but usually it's those that raise funding, make a splash or do something new. We can read about big company news almost anywhere. I'm with Charles, though. Not every start-up is worth the virtual ink. How do you strike a balance? That would be up to Gabe's secret sauce. - Dan Kaplan
I like what Charles said. Very often, where there's traction, there's a story. What happened? Why is this catching on? What made the difference? What kind of people are using it? How is it spreading? Etc., etc. - Gabe Rivera
More information = more usability. Hope to see some new developing things on Techmeme soon. - Mark Frost
I agree in part with Gabe, but disagree too. TechMeme attracted me because it was different than what was on Google News. Now it's getting to be big-city news and isn't as interesting as hanging out in FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble
Finding all most new products worth trying via twitter/friendfeed (techmeme new product launches usually = techcrunch = PR relationship with MikeA = not enough reason to give a crap pour moi ) - leigh himel
re: a 'Techmeme' that is 'personal' -- A recent blog post from Nick Bradbury explains how the "popular topics" feature on FeedDemon is sort of like a meme-tracker limited to those blogs to which one subscribes ( http://urlzen.com/6u ). Obviously, this is not a Techmeme replacement, merely an attempt to add another means to view the conversation flow. - Rex Hammock
Gabe, to be clear, I don't think TechMeme should change. I think we need to flow around it though, provide other ways for people to find what's new. We used to have weblogs.com before the blogging world got too big and the spammers discovered it. Digg is even more of a concentrator than TM, so that isn't what I want. Oddly I don't think it's an algorithmic thing. You and I tend to view things diametrically opposite. I think human beings are the answer, you think algorithms. I think we're both right. :-0) - Dave Winer
Actually aggregation only makes sense in a peer/social context: what is my social graph talking about? Search will become social - differently from what Mahalo is. #workingonit ;) - oliver gassner
I think certain people are using the Loren/Shel feud as a platform for old, long standing feuds. I think this has little to do with protecting Shel. It's just the same old tired pissing match between the usual suspects. I'm tuning out. - Mike Doeff
you're not alone! the loren puppet shel thing is weighing down twitter and FF now! - Susan Beebe
Loren, Loic, Peter... it's just that the past 48 hours have shown that it's all connected. That the roots of the problem are deeper than we all imagine. Deeper than Arrington. Deeper than Julia Allison. Perhaps only one man can help now. The President. Of the Friendfeedosphere. Louis Gray. We need Louis, Israel, and Mahmoud Abbas to sit down at the table. The table near the window at the Subway in Sunnyvale. 704 S Wolfe Rd. - Gabe Rivera
"the roots of the problem are deeper than we all imagine." Touche bien , if that was said in sincerity !! - Peter Dawson
I just tried to explain to someone what was going on, and it ended with 'and then this other guy bought this website and made it .net and it has a cat shitting' ...I think I just lost a friend by telling that story. The level of absurd is officially out of hand. - Erin Kotecki Vest
Erin-this has long ago crossed into surreal territory. The string on this the rationality kite has long been cut. - Mark Forman
Steve Gilmor needs to analyze this whole thing on TechCrunch; then it will make perfect sense. - Jason Kaneshiro
Jason K, or they could plan 'A Very Special Gillmor Gang' tomorrow and hash things out. Ratings would be through the roof. - Mike Doeff
yeah makes me sick. I've completely tuned out. There's like 30 people who care. Unfortunately, many people read these folks. - daniel morgan via twhirl
It's a bad silicon valley soap opera. Gabe is killing y'all. - Jonathan
"http://www.techcrunch.com/wp-c... (via mike arrington) Winer was totally fine with Loren's Shel puppet videos three months ago. Funny how things change." Watch the videos over time. You will notice that the last is less fun and more disgusting with focus being on up-setting sponsors. This is not acceptable. Dave is correct in raising objections when it crossed the limit - twisting the facts by others will not help here. One last thing - what goes around comes around - it's a very small world. - Vic Podcaster
somehow I think Loren Feldman's next video is going to get a hellava lot of page views. - Thomas Hawk
Loren Feldman-scaling the hill of hype so we don't have to. Puppet marketing 101 - Mark Forman
winer registered 1938media.net in may. so i would guess his disgust must have started shortly before then? - jeneane sessum
AP banked on syndication and subscribers for presentation. but where Reuters "got" free RSS, AP never did. http://is.gd/F4T - Andy Sternberg
Danny is wrong because he missed a fundamental point: the AP IS THE MEDIA. It's a collectively owned distribution platform who syndicates content among its members in the US and sells it offshore, as well as creating some of their own generic content as well. The don't need a news website, every single owner is their website. from the NYTimes down - Duncan Riley
AP isn't the media, though yes, it's owned by a good chunk of the media. Danny didn't miss that, in fact he acknowledged the issue of conflicts with member news organizations. Instead, he argues that AP hosting its own content could benefit the AP in spite of that. It would definitely benefit readers, bloggers, and aggregators like Digg and Techmeme. - Gabe Rivera
I was thinking the same thing as Danny. The AP's business model has decayed thanks to free syndication and aggregation provided by other news sites. Facts are a commodity. It is time to compete on the terms that this space has established. They are going to lose customers soon because with RSS, news consumers don't need the local paper to syndicate national and internation news. Local papers can and should be niche. - Nick Dynice
Gabe, my 100 word summary. Drudge Retort is not Matt Drudge. AP has lawyers. DR was copying articles wholesale. AP lawyers swoop in. DR tries ignoring them -- maybe they'll go away. They don't, DR complies. Lawyers attack again. DR freaks. Shitstorm! AP pulls back, tries to call it a victory. Everyone says NFW. - Dave Winer
Dave, some of uses AP took issue with involved short quotes, something most bloggers assume they are entitled to. So your summary does not adequately summarize the situation. - Gabe Rivera
"I though I’d compare the list on QMeme as I write this post to Techmeme. Now I love Gabe and I’m still a Techmeme addict, but at the dawn of the personal memetracker there are some significant differences in what one delivers over the other in terms of my personal likes." - Russellreno
I always wondered whether Duncan Riley loved me. Now I know. He does! - Gabe Rivera
I think the author needs to Google the following: "Austrian Business Cycle Theory." - Chris Rossini
chris, the whole post is about umm...austrian economics. gabe, thanks for the personal attack. i hope the rest of you guys enjoyed it, anyways. - umair
I think civility has hurt me. Happy you're LOL though. FriendFeed comments really deliver in that dept. - Gabe Rivera
Wait, what happened to "Gabe, LOL"? You're giving me some good ideas on how to creatively abuse the "edit" function. - Gabe Rivera
1) i dont think everyone has to like what everyone else likes - that makes for an intensely boring world. 2) gabe/mathew - i like you both and respect your opinions, but i feel you both seagulled your negativity here rather than share a constructive viewpoint. 3) i shared it because its interesting - like it or not, its interesting. - Jeremy Toeman
sometimes saying something is garbage IS a constructive comment - michael arrington
look. i get the feeling i stepped on someone's toes or that there is something personal going on here. apologies if i offended anyone - the post was meant to be positive, in every sense of the word, for all of us. - umair
@Jeremy: I can't say I ever feel much of a strong desire to run to the defense of Mathew Ingram but unless I missed something he sea-gulled no negativity here. his comment basically went ignored, so it can't even be accused of egging on any of the trollism that followed... it's not fair to presume that Ingram "owes" the thread a "constructive viewpoint"... his comment, to me, looked casual and I read it with a humerous undertone... more conversation with his friend Gabe, not an attack on Umair... - Matt Shaulis
@Matt - hmm... I guess I originally read it as "[i] am not a fan" but i think you are right. Thanks, and Mr. Ingram, I do hereby fully withdraw said seagulling comment in all written, oral, and Internety forms. :) - Jeremy Toeman
"Dave, we're at year 15 or so of web news, and AP, today, has a form where they're asking us to pay for quotes involving just five words. With their words and deed, the AP is effectively working to stamp out freedoms we know we have. Even after last week's uproar, they actually told the NYT that even short direct quotes were not "appropriate". In light of this, I'm glad some bloggers went "nuclear", even if I didn't do so personally." - Gabe Rivera
yeah, but it's not like AP is the RIAA -- who is this "voice" making these statements. Certainly not the same hacks on the editorial side ;-D - Andy Sternberg
The voice is Jim Kennedy, AP's vice president and strategy director. He engaged a bunch of bloggers via comments and email last week as well. - Gabe Rivera
Well Mr. Kennedy's "strategic planning" appears to have hit a wall. Personally, I don't want the AP to die and I don't want print to go away either. Check out this 2-year-old piece for Nieman in which Kennedy brags about the so-called forward-lookingness of the AP: http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/... - Andy Sternberg
You (Gabe) actually have some influence on this issue: Remove AP from Techmeme. Who needs them, anyway? (It's not like they would write stuff nobody else reports on.) - sebmos
