But I only learned about this from Thomas Hawk first because of reverse chronological posting. ;-) Had I been reading in the order posted, Kevin Fox would have been my "news source."
- michael silverton
Is there anyway i can mark this as "i don't like this" i feel guilty marking this news as "i like this.
- Adam Jackson
How about just change "Like" to "Bump"?
- Roshan Vyas
Definitely feel bad about "Liking" this. Bump suggestion is good
- mashable
Launched this around my office, and people are suprised about me knowing this already.
- Stephen Lecheler
I think "Like" should be "highlight" instead.
- Richard Lawler
Behold the power of live journalisim. Just got a huge burst of data from Scoble about the plane crash in New York.
- Stephen Lecheler
That Twitpic picture made it on MSNBC and CNN wild.
- Mona Nomura
suyun üzerine düşmesi büyük şans kimse ölmemiş. hatta tv den gördüm az önce bir vatandaş sevinçle çıkıyordu uçaktan.
- Volkan Yılmaz
I found out about this and the Steve Jobs news via Twitter. Change is happening...
- Louis Gray
Crossposted: This is "augmented social cognition" in everyday action -- moniter, moniter, signal spike, relay, relay, process, relay, react, involve, resolve, reset. Rudimentary, yes, but worthy of closer research! http://friendfeed.com/rooms...
- michael silverton
Waiting at PHL for the first US Air flight I've taken in a long time. I'm glad everyone is ok. I was relieved to hear the evacuation was orderly and hope ppl take this as a reminder that once and a while you should actually read the instructions for the emergency exit.
- Sarah Miller
Michael, good point on "source" How news gets propagated from now on is going to get very interesting analytically.
- Melanie Reed
The path that got me the news on this oddly was having TwitterGadget open in Gmail: CNN BreakingNews pushes it to my Desktop slightly faster than NTARC twitters it in my TwitterGadget window. I immediately tweet to my followers and then go to check FF
- Melanie Reed
macro- blogsearch has in general 270 macro blogs on this story ; compared with maybe 100.000 twitters on this, extremely slow as expected ; btw, coincidence that google took down 4 of their services today??? maybe they needed new server space for * this* [did google/nasa crash the hudson plane ?? [cp 2.o theory]...
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- ewing2001akaNicomedy2010
^^^ PAGING SPAM KILLER TEAM. Thx.
- Micah
from YouFeed
Kevin, are you talking about the ewing2001akaNicomedy2010 account? I'm still seeing it.
- Rochelle
It's not actually spam. Read the comment: it's on topic. The rest of the account isn't spammy either.
- Akiva
No, we weren't talking about ewing2001. There was a spammer (username suatuigamala) leaving commentspam in the post. It's an unfortunate artifact that Micah's calling-out now points to an innocent commenter after the spam was removed. :-)
- Kevin Fox
Can I get one for the body as well as the face?
- Dion Almaer
Very interesting. Hope they post the download link soon so that we can all play with it.
- Brady Brim-DeForest
It seems as if the main problem with most people in the examples shown is their forehead is too short or too narrow. Wonder if there's a subtle clue that big brains are beautiful there! :)
- Lindsay
@Jason - that's an interesting concept. Would you be more likely to trust the girl on the left or right? Would you be more likely to talk to either one of them at a party (or more intimidated by either one?).
- Lindsay
Notice that for all the women they soften the jaw, while squaring it for men. Everyone also gets a slightly thinner face and upturned almost smiling lips.
- FFing Enigma
@SB yeah and the forehead adjustment... almost like there is a triangle with the forehead at the point and they flip it so the chin is the bottom of the triangle... weird.
- Lindsay
They are different women! Blame Paul! : )
- Erhan Erdoğan
Lindsay: whenever sketching generic faces, the face starts as an inverted triangle and the eyes appear a third of the way down from the top of the forehead; lips and nose appear below and above (respectively) a line 1/3 up from the chin. Looks like these pictures are rearranged to meet that particular school of drawing.
- FFing Enigma
That is interesting yet odd. Seems that the faces are slendered with the software.
- Jim Goldstein
from twhirl
I wonder what would come out of applying their algorithms to face of black or asian person? Different countries have different concepts of beauty.
- arty
Paul - Think you should definitely add the option. "Click here to be beautiful without the expense of plastic surgery! .... and you may even get more 'Likey's" :)"
- Charlie Anzman
Some of the stuff coming out of Siggraph this year is really freaky. How about combining this with the automatic video editing stuff? ;)
- Joe Beda
without a doubt amazing. It's incredible how subtle the changes are yet massive difference.
- Zee.
Huh, that's pretty crazy. Creepy, but cool. :)
- felix
I haven't read the paper, but I wonder if it adapts to different notions of "attractive" (that changes from culture to culture ...)
- Rui Pires
+1 @Claude I was thinking the same thing! Incorporate this software in wearable monitor glasses, and the whole world would be beautiful! I'll bet we can look for these on the shelves in the U.S. just before November. Social media and reality enhancement software have put Winston Smith out of a job.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
do i sense another manga-style meme starting?
- anna sauce
So, if it turns me into Gilbert Godfried... what does that mean?
- Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
You know, if these guys had gotten together with the realtime video+photo enhancement folks and approached the Beijing Olympic Comittee then that singing girl in the opening ceremonies might not have had to been replaced with a body double. (Yeah, I just brought three of this week's biggest memes together. I'll be here all week.)
- Kevin Fox
The artist proportions were laid out by the Greeks as the perfect human, that's not being used here. This beautification engine, I think, builds on top of a previous study where some students tried to mathematically identify attractiveness. They had participants rate the attractiveness of head shots from yearbooks. What they found was there was a high correlation b/w the geometrically "average" face and high attraction. That "average" is based on the proportions of the di
- xero
stances between the individual elements of the face and their relative sizes. IIRC the software adjusts elements so they statistically/geometrically complement each other. It's not actually working toward a golden set of proportions, but a set of proportions appropriate for the individual as defined by the masses. I wouldn't think of it as "facial discrimination" so much as "deviation from ones potential".
- xero
I'm waiting for the first Facebook application that automatically enhances your profile picture like this. Every social network should run this on the avatars. Beautiful people!
- Benedikt Koehler
Can you imagine the controversy if dating sites got a hold of this?
- xero
@paul automatically apply it to all profile photos, huh? are you sure you ready for results? check my picture - try to see wonderful cossacks writing infamous letter to Turkish Sultan :)
- A. T.
I wonder if they'll turn Mickey Mouse into Mighty Mouse
- Dave Q
this will have a lot of practical applications to create a (virtual) world of beautiful (or more acceptable facially) people.
- Apostolos Tsompanopoulos
Just a complicated high tech implementation of beer goggles.
- Hayes Haugen
Larry Niven had an interesting treatment of luck in one of his novels, Ringworld, if I recall correctly. A planet with a population problem created a lottery such that the winner was allowed to have a third child. This made luck a survival trait, so intelligent beings wanting to staff an important space mission sought out an nth-generation lottery winner, in order to bring luck to the mission. In the end, though, it turned out they hadn't thought through this luck concept fully.
- Bruce Lewis
I agree, but those three well-executed features need to be done in the context of marketing/sales magic, otherwise the product won't take off. GMail by all rights should be the dominant email client today, or at least every other surviving email client should have copied the conversation view from GMail. FriendFeed should be bigger than Twitter. I'll admit that twitter got the "few things" part, but I don't think they won based on doing those few things well.
- Bruce Lewis
Gmail is getting there. It has already passed all of the other webmail systems -- they just don't realize it yet. iPhone is similar in that it hasn't won in absolute numbers yet, but it's the winner nevertheless. FriendFeed is a topic for another day.
- Paul Buchheit
"At the office, maybe we'll finally have an easy way of chatting with remote people while discussing a presentation or document (e.g. audio iChat with a shared display)." Wouldn't that be nice?
- Benjamin Golub
Gmail is getting there, and will eventually get there, but it has Google associated with it. Smaller products with weaker brands have a lot more trouble. There's already a tablet out that uses multi-touch to enable multi-player games, for example. Do you know what it's called? I don't; I just happened to see it.
- Bruce Lewis
There's no question that brand matters, and it would be difficult for anyone other than Apple and maybe G or M to successfully launch the iPad. You have to pick a strategy that works given the resources you have. Also, I bet that other tablet isn't actually good (clunky to use).
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, it helps me to hear you say there's no question that brand matters. Your essays really resonate with me, and when I read this one my first inclination is to run off and refine my core features. But refined features only bring new users if you've got the sales/marketing thing figured out.
- Bruce Lewis
Not every game is winnable Bruce. I wouldn't try taking on Apple and Google for the cell phone market, for example. Google succeeded in large part because nobody else realized that search was important.
- Paul Buchheit
"if the basic product isn't compelling, adding more features won't save it."
- Clare Dibble
Bruce, exactly. Especially since we're all seduced by the idea that on the web, we want to scale virally. In this conversation, we're talking about competing with Apple and Google. Do you have a particular target audience you could to go after first? Maybe dominate a given market segment - a niche or a subculture by focusing on something that's just for them, then grow into other niches...
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- Mary B: #TeamMonique
Paul thanks for an enlightening article. How would you define winning? Can you win the game and still be a loser, for example MySpace won but could not sustain itself?
- Shakeel Mahate
Hold that thought, Mary. I'd really like to talk about it, but I don't want to hijack the discussion any more than I have already. Paul has a great post here about what does and (just as important) doesn't constitute a great product. Now that it's established that brand, etc. matters, I'm happy to stay on topic.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
I'm glad you address the different strategy implicit in developing gmail within Google. An independent startup trying to design a product doesn't have the brand or the support resources that something like gmail did (to Google's credit) will likely need to look at product design in a more holistic way. This isn't a direct criticism of you, Paul, but we like to boil down the product...
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- mikepk
I agree with your premise though, having lived through the experience of building a 'good' product that wasn't 'great'. We did a lot of things wrong with the "Grazr product" from Grazr. First and foremost in my mind was not focusing on the core elements and adding hundreds of features that just made the thing a confusing mess. We needed a benevolent dictator and I wasn't in the position to be that person.
- mikepk
So by this logic trying to turn Gmail into twitter will probably fail? Something like trying to turn Greader into a social network? One you take the care to identify the essential attributes that make something great, bolting on more attributes to make it something else doesn't seem a good idea.
- Todd Hoff
If your product is a fashion accessory, it doesn't need to be good.
- Gabe
People will buy all kinds of crap for the latest fashion accessory.
- Gabe
don't you have to be good at some point before you can iterate to be great?
- David Tran
Dan: Paul's thesis is that you can start out at great and then iterate to be good.
- Gabe
More seriously, Paul is using "great" to mean something nearly orthogonal to "good", rather than being "like 'good', but better".
- Andrew C (✓)
from Android
"Great" in this essay means it has features that are novel or way better executed than the norm. "Good" means achieving the norm for feature-completeness.
- Bruce Lewis
"Great" is a discontinuity. The iPhone is a good example because there was really nothing like it before, so it didn't matter that it was lacking some obvious features like copy&paste.
- Paul Buchheit
Well, now, hold on. On paper, there were phones that did most of the things iPhones did, even maps and youtube. The app potential wasn't even a huge selling point for the first year or so if I remember right; it was more that it had a browser that really worked. (and even then, there were other smartphones out there... people just didn't really write apps for them, not nearly on the iPhone's scale.)
- Andrew C (✓)
Andrew, I tried those phones, and they were all bad. Having features isn't good enough -- they need to actually work. iPhone was the first phone with browser that worked, maps that work, etc.
- Paul Buchheit
While the Alexa numbers are not accurate in absolute terms, it is true that Turkey is now officially the largest source of traffic for FriendFeed by all metrics (unique users and page views)
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
@Bret, tell us approx. # of ff users from Turkey :)
- Serkan Ünsal
auto-translate (server side) is the next killer feature - translations aren't always perfect i know, but it's better than nothing (or learning all the other languages)
- Chris Heath
Please just keep FriendFeed up, don't let it die. This is absolutely the best thing you can do for Turkey.
- AlpB.
I read an article about Turkey in Psychology Today recently. It seems the population in general is very forward-looking and eager to prove their modernity to the rest of the world. Like :).
- LANjackal
bret gardaş biz olmasag FF batardı ha. Bizede bi sakal atarsın artıgın feysin verdiği manilerle ?
- Çağatay " SKYLAB " Şama
Kıymetimizi bil Bret, biz sana bazen kızıyoruz ama senin iyiliğin için onlar. FB'deki sarışın oğlana tiggat et, iyi şeyler duymuyorum onunla ilgili.
- mcd
Funny how some countries just take over some social networking sites. Like Orkut in Brazil and FriendFeed in Turkey.
- Gabe
we are a veeeeeeery communicative nation, that is all:) and we love sharing:)
- Neşe
ah bi de konuşsan neler söyleyecen ama, tek laf yok. teşekkürler de Alah razı olsun de, milletçe bir tepki koyduk mu facebook geri satar valla....
- Serbay Arda Ayzit
FYI and as a side-note to my earlier comment about translation; gmail offered to translate Serbay's recent comment as it came through my email notifications... here's the turkish > english translation: "What you talking ah bi de söyleyecen, but not a single word. Thank you also get consent Alah, the nation do we put a response back to facebook sells valla ...." --- i'm guessing there's...
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- Chris Heath
@chris :) please do not use google translate, it makes a horrifying translation, probably because the Turkish syntax is very different than English. Yet, it is very true that there was a lot of slang in Serbay's comment, no translator algorhythm would solve:) he simply was commenting on the fact that Bret did not really say anything about or commented on the situation, he just presented it:) apperantly serbay was expecting a thank at least, on behalf of Turkey:)
- Neşe
Bret, come visit turkey and we will show you the best food around :) and also you might find some really good tech startups. ps. did you know every startup in turkey has a belly dancer ? it help keeping the spirits up :)
- denizoktar
Neşe, thanks for the summary. And I did notice the poor quality of the translation, and that is part of why I posted it. I just found it cool that the option was right there in my email. Google noticed that the language was not english, realized that it was turkish, and then offered to translate it for me all in one simple click. With these types of features and capabilities that we...
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- Chris Heath
Today at lunch at Facebook, a good friend reconfirmed Turkey is still in top 10 countries globally for Facebook
- Aydin Senkut
Turkey is the biggest user of FriendFeed on the planet ;)
- Orlando Pozo
turkey is huge for us too.. but.. the female to male ratio from turkey is like 1/100 :( through turkish men seem quite motivated, using translators to talk in any language
- t toring
the issue though is that turkish women participate WAY less resulting in an imbalance. i havent run the numbers but i can safely assume 95% of the turkish traffic is male. is this typical?
- t toring
umm... well no because browsing around clearly the turkish men are not engaging with other males but women from other countries. when i say "assume" i mean without running reports.. simply browsing around.. so its not really an assumption. just like when u walk into a bar you can tell whether its frequented by a particular kind of people, you dont need to actually do a count or survey
- t toring
Onur i think you misunderstood.. i am talking about the traffic on a site i run..
- t toring
There's a long history/tradition of Google not advertising its main search product, but rather making the product good enough that it sells itself via word-of-mouth.
- Jim Norris
Are you faulting Google the advertising company for running ads?
- Hayes Haugen
Say what you will about whether Google should be advertising or not, but didn't that ad just make you smile? Maybe it struck me because it somewhat resembled my own experience, but I thought it was beautifully simple.
- Joel Webber
I thought that the ad was fantastic. In fact, I'm definitely in the camp of "it's so good that showing it to a large audience outweighs any long-standing policy of not advertising on TV." Yes, that good. Geoff, I'm surprised that you're reading that much into it. Especially since companies have been advertising since there were companies.
- Chieze Okoye
Like maybe if you have enough money for a Super Bowl Ad a nice fat shareholder dividend be in order
- WarLord
To be fair, if an advertisement costs $X, and produces greater than $X in additional profit (without harming the brand), and assuming a good cash position (which Google has), then it makes sense to run the ad regardless of other possible innovations, dividends, etc. (because there isn't actually a tradeoff -- you can do both)
- Paul Buchheit
As long as I will keep reminding friends and colleagues to google before they ask, I consider that Google should be advertised with even more intensity!
- philos
"On Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won’t let them, he says. Someone else asks something on a different topic, but there’s no getting Jobs off this rant. I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don’t be evil mantra: “It’s bullshit.” Audience roars."
- Kevin Fox
from Bookmarklet
Funny how evil is in the eye of the beholder. I don't doubt that Google would like Android to make the iPhone irrelevant, but that's not evil; it's competition. And not even as harsh a competitive tactic as Apple's holding Google's iPhone apps in limbo because Apple is afraid they might succeed.
- Kevin Fox
I think Jobs sees all competition as zero-sum, so he seems to think Google's out to destroy the iPhone. But I don't know anyone at Google (including on the Android team) that thinks this way. A healthy, heterogeneous market is good for everyone, Google and Apple included.
- Joel Webber
from BuddyFeed
Totally agree, Kevin. It's all psychological bullshit to appeal to incite the fanboys.
- Amy
Agreed, Joel. Google's certainly trying harder than Apple to broaden the smartphone market beyond the high-end. I think Google would be a lot more satisfied if they covered Nokia's global footprint than if they surpassed Apple in unit shipments.
- Kevin Fox
Also, not that it matters but Google bought Android two years before Apple started selling the iPhone. It's not like Google suddenly decide to infringe on Apple's turf.
- Kevin Fox
It saddens me how most of the comments on all the articles covering this story agree with Steve that Google is somehow evil. Le sigh...
- Michael Leggett
Google was so lost in the browser for many years. Most of the companies who are not Web oriented were not even interested in what Google was doing. And now current acts such as Android and Chrome OS get their reactions, because all suddenly Google changed roadmaps -- suddenly means last 2-3 years in my scale.
- Burcu Dogan
Nokia didn't enter Apple's market and sell iPods or iMacs or MacBooks, I wonder how Nokia feels about Apple's entry into smartphones? ;-p
- Ray Cromwell
also any developer dealing with apple found. and adobe-flash plugin could get the idea what steve says..
- mehmet t. akalın
Yeah - those are the types of things a cult leader says to his cult to get them to rally against the enemies ;-)
- Jesse Stay
I say.. even this cute company called Apple is bullshit too.. They are lazy bastards as well..
- Pico Seno
Well said, Aaron - motivation is good for us all :-) I like new Google AND Apple technology.
- Jesse Stay
If I were sitting there at the iPad announcement, I would have been waiting for a runner to come down the aisle to throw a sledgehammer through the screen with Jobs's face on it.
- Gabe
@Paul, you're starting to sound a little too much like Gordon Gecko
- Fleagle
Are you implying that competition is bad Fleagle? Monopolies tend to be abusive, or at best lazy. Google competing with the iPhone may not be what's best for Apple, but it's better for the rest of the world. I declare it 99.9% good :)
- Paul Buchheit
No @Paul, I actually don't care to be honest. I just love the movie "Wall Street."
- Fleagle
@Paul as a matter of fact, there had been historical records of true business competition had been causing more harm than good (water supply services few centuries back in London, UK), but you probably won't agree for sake of "competition being good by definition" :) (oh, and I am "all pro competition" too, but I do like historical facts)
- A. T.
@Paul also Apple vs Google vs very-few-more-key-players vs rest-is-negligible fits perfectly oligopoly case - do you like oligopoly? :)
- A. T.
There's competition where each company tries to out-innovate the other and there's competition where they try to undermine the other. In my experience Google represents the former.
- Kevin Fox
Competition is evil. If Apple loses because of Google, it would have to fire innocent employees, and Google won't replace the lost jobs by selling their phones online.
- Jérôme
from iPhone
The nice thing about Android is that it is monopoly/oligopoly resistant because it is open source. If Google pushes it too far, or stops innovating, someone else (e.g. Microsoft) can fork it and create their own competitive strain of Android. The same is not true of iPhone obviously.
- Paul Buchheit
is that really true Paul? Isn't this Google slamming into MS and Apple trying to take market share with another prop system?
- Thomas Power
Yes, I think there are already some non-Google Android devices, though none of the popular ones are. I doubt Microsoft will ever do it for the same reason that they aren't adopting WebKit for IE, but technically they could (and perhaps should).
- Paul Buchheit
Android's already being used in several non-cellphone devices like media players from Archos and Barnes & Noble's Nook e-reader.
- Kevin Fox
How's it feel to be, according to Valleywag, the face of Google's counter-Apple strategy post-Jobs lashing out? http://gawker.com/5461539... Bloggers are silly.
- Mark Trapp
I think it's funny that Ryan Tate didn't mention my staunch advocacy of Apple's stance on Flash.
- Kevin Fox
I want to know when Facebook is going to build their own Android phone. ;-)
- Jesse Stay
O sweet so this thread is a developing news story about a news story about a #headexplodes
- LANjackal
Or what I really want to know is when Ryan Tate is going to start using FriendFeed ;-)
- Jesse Stay
You guys might want to check out Gruber's additional perspective on what Jobs said. http://www.wired.com/epicent... Note, in particular, the updates. It sounds like the original report painted his comments more harshly than they were delivered.
- Kevin (aka ThreadKilla)
For the record (and since there are now a lot of people reading this thread who don't know me, my stance and my tone) I totally get why Steve said the things he said, and I don't really begrudge him for it. It's sad that he chose to rally his troops by implying that the other guy's got it in for them, so they'd better fight back hard, but it's nothing compared to calling your competitors Nazis: http://fury.com/2005...
- Kevin Fox
I'd like to ask Apple about their thoughts and plans about Maps, and about online advertising, two businesses that Google entered first.
- Kevin Fox
Really? I thought he was mad at Microsoft and IBM a *lot* in the 80s. The whole 1984 ad was a poke at IBM. It is funny though that externally he says that nobody's come close to where the iPhone was 3 years ago, but to his own troops he's saying 'Google's out to get us, so watch out.'
- Kevin Fox
Not that old-mindsets are particularly constructive, but I think Jobs, in particular his mindset, is a product of the OS wars of the '80s and '90s. Microsoft was out to get Apple with its second-rate products and infinite cash reserves: Apple was the last stand between Microsoft, the death of innovation, and the proliferation of mediocrity. Now that Microsoft has been vanquished, the...
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- Mark Trapp
I think the only thing standing in the way of Google-targeted ad campaigns like Apple's "Redmond: Start your photocopiers" ads is the fact that Google's brand is viewed even more favorably than Apple's. Apple can't publicly attack a company that people love without taking a serious hit.
- Kevin Fox
Apple is afraid. They don't enter the search business because they know they can't win. Google sees a way to put customers/devs first and does see a way to succeed.
- Nathan Snyder
Kevin: I think the 1984 ad was a poke at what Apple was to become in 2010.
- Gabe
Respectfully, I think the level of Google fanboi-ism is equal to that of Apple. Google is an innovative company. So is Apple. Neither is devoid of warts.
- Kevin (aka ThreadKilla)
I love both Apple and Google, but I hate it when they fight or act spoiled.
- Kevin Fox
Yes, and despite (or because of) SJ being kind of a nut, Apple is still awesome and I'll be buying a tablet :)
- Paul Buchheit
It's fun to watch extremely controlling people throw tantrums when they don't get their way. Waaaaaah!
- Garmon Estes
Just curious: Paul, will you buy it because you need it or because you trust Apple for having designed the tablet you'll love?
- Jérôme
Apparently there can only be one maker of phones. Does that mean that phones with keyboards are evil?
- Sam Levine
Schmidt should have excused himself from Apple's board conversations on the iPhone, when he was well aware that Google is (secretly) working on Android & Nexus One. This definitely falls within the definition of evil. I'm actually surprised it's legal.
- Tal Broda
I don't think Android was secret -- Google bought the company a long time ago.
- Paul Buchheit
None of you feel that Eric Schmidt sitting on Apple's board while developing competing technology is evil?
- Richard Luther
It was disclosed to Apple and they chose to continue having him on the board (or do you think he just make up a random excuse to leave the room every time the iPhone was discussed?) Why would that be evil Richard?
- Paul Buchheit
I don't get it. Why do Apple fanboys hate competition? I personally love it that the iPad is perceived as competition to the Kindle. Competition is good for the consumer!
- Piaw Na
@Piaw Okay, fine. Let Jobs sit on the Google board while developing an Apple search engine.
- Richard Luther
Richard, if he disclosed that fact, and Google still wanted him on the board, then there would be nothing wrong with doing that.
- Paul Buchheit
And I wouldn't mind at all if Apple tried its hand at a search engine. In fact, they did do spotlight. :-)
- Piaw Na
Here's the deal, folks. It's not about hating competition, it's about hating working together. Apple and Google have historically had strong ties. The two companies have worked closely on many products. Both companies have benefitted, and IMO consumers have benefitted. Do you think Google helped or harmed that relationship when they decided to compete directly with Apple?
- Richard Luther
They harmed the relationship but helped the world. That seems like a fair deal to me. We should be nervous when big companies get too close.
- Paul Buchheit
I was always uncomfortable with that relationship.
- Piaw Na
Richard, Google decided to enter the mobile OS space before Apple had a phone.
- Daniel Dulitz
Paul, I agree that the competition this situation created is great for us, the consumers, but if you look at when Eric recused himself, and consider when the first iPhone shipped, you will see a problem.
- Tal Broda
Sure, I see a problem, but the problem is too MUCH implicit collusion between Google and Apple, not too little. I do think that it is probably true that the close relationship between Google and Apple led them to compete less than they otherwise would have, and that was a bit "evil". But that makes it GOOD that that is changing.
- David desJardins
"My friend Chris Dixon wrote about what everyone should know about their equity grants. Following up on that, I wrote a simple python program that helps you simulate what your stock would be worth in the event someone buys your company."
- Michael R. Bernstein
from Bookmarklet
One of my all time favorite re-enactments of a literary character has to be Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes in the BBC series. Have been re-watching a lot of this lately as our Roku/Netflix box has the whole series on demand. Jeremy Brett is everything I imagined Sherlock Holmes to be and more. David Suchet as Hercule Poirot comes close.
- Arvind Sundararajan
from MyLikes
Kynetx launch of their developer platform. Seriously - you really need to look at what they're doing. It's the biggest thing I've seen since the Facebook platform launch.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: I'm looking, I just don't get it. Their marketing really is sub-par and all your hype doesn't explain WHY it is important. Facebook was INSTANTLY recognizable as important.
- Robert Scoble
Kynetx is important because Scoble doesn't understand it. This is a big plus.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: it took me 1.5 years to get RSS. But the thing is I still got it before most of you did. I will figure out Kynetx, but the marketing on its site really doesn't do a revolution justice, if Jesse is right.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I'll do several more blog posts about it. It will take some examples to truly show its power.
- Jesse Stay
I agree they need to improve their marketing though
- Jesse Stay
Robert: if you hated SideWiki; you'll really hate Selectors + Kynetx. But, you should start by reading Craig Burton. The evolution from Cookies to Selectors is the key.
- Cliff Gerrish
Craig's a really smart dude - I finally got to meet him this last week and boy was I impressed.
- Jesse Stay
Agree with Gigi. Don't take my words just because I work for Microsoft Italy, but my question is fair I suppose. What I do with a Google Chrome OS Netbook when I do not have any kind of connectivity, for instance? For example, Italy still does not have free wifi anywhere and the rates for a GPRS/UMTS connectivity are still high in comparison to the data you want to use with them. It will be a very interesting competitive scenario soon...
- Contz
@Andrea then Google Chrome OS is not an option for you. not a big deal. Google's OS market will be anywhere which has the most important requirement for this OS which is a low price high-speed internet
- mohamadreza
Google OS is for North America primarily. Europe and a bunch of other areas don't have ubiquitous Internet like the US. So we're talking about a fairly confined market here anyway.
- Frank Jonen
Google OS is for the Internet, and the Internet is for the whole world.
- l'Ego di Gigi
@Mohamadreza Not a big deal for me. Try to share some photos from a camera with a friend with a Chrome OS netbook without the Internet :-) That all I ment
- Contz
ChromeOS is for my mum (and for me). I can buy her this laptop, get her to plug it in and outside of hardware, my 'free tech support' ends. The root is in read only and all her stuff is on the cloud. If there is a problem, hit restart and everything goes back to normal.
- Johnny
"Why take a $1,000 computer to class? Couldn’t he do everything he needs to do on a low-cost computer" my 12 yr old kid has his Acer Aspire One, running Windows XP, definately not $1,000, good enough for web surfing, pulling up the web version of his math schoolbook, playing Mousehunt
- Tim Jones
@Andrea Contino that's exactly what I mean. I second @Frank about the fairly confined market. this OS has no place in my and your room while we do not have the bandwidth it needs :-) and even my designer would not use it. we should not blame google for this issue. this OS is designed for the internet, not to be compared with PC or Mac
- mohamadreza
Chrome OS is everything at Google: nothing fancy but it works. And it works damn well. And I'm a long time apple fan an journalist.
- Federico Bolsoman
Right now I really, really want to convert my little netbook to Chrome, just to see how well it gets along with my Droid. They could bluetooth together and do Googly things, it would be beautiful.
- (dot)lizard kelly
Scott... That assumes that the Windows OS is free to the manufacturer. What percentage of the build costs go to the purchase of the OEM version?
- Johnny
Also, Microsoft are reported to be restricting the hardware that the Windows 7 Netbook edition can be installed on. Particularly processor speed and memory. No news yet on if that applies to ChromeOS
- Johnny
Chrome OS is clearly overhyped. There will be no $100 netbooks - at least $200 (youtube or vimeo hd don't run on ultracheap cpu's). And just a $100 difference between a limited Chrome netbook and a fully capable Win machine will cause most people choose the latter. Remember all those Linux netbooks - return rate was sky-high, so manufacturers moved back to WinXP. And those Linux...
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- Kirill Petrovsky
from fftogo
I figured it out -- Chrome OS is going to run on something like Crunchpad and its competitors (in the future maybe whenever hardware like that is available). I am guessing the market is limited though. Scoble will want one -- but he has one of everything .
- Brian Sullivan
Today I have tried ChromeOS on my EeePC....... I could survive without.
- l'Ego di Gigi
Actually, reading the comments to the Chrome-related posts, I noticed one idea people like, and which no one is against. That's a remote cloud desktop, with infinite firepower, replacing their desktop PCs. And ubiquitous access from any web-enabled device - at home and on the go. Now, who is working on that kind of technology... oh, it's Windows Azure for serving power and "3 screens and the cloud" concept for end-users.
- Kirill Petrovsky
from fftogo
Scott: Google makes billions of dollars WITHOUT SELLING ONE LAPTOP! How the hell? Hint: Google will make a LOT of money from $100 devices.
- Robert Scoble
Google OS hasn't won anything except false hype. People aren't going to go out in droves to buy $100 sub-devices when just a bit more money can get you a full-fledged PC.
- Spencer
Besides I predict no such device capable of internet access is going to priced at $100 ever. Prices of hardware are coming down but not that much. In fact I predict that no such device will cost $100 to build -- ever.
- Brian Sullivan
The ChumbyOne is priced at $100 in the Chumby store right now: https://store.chumby.com/ Not the same device, of course, but not that different.
- Ken Kennedy
Google OS is all together interesting 2 use together w/other OS, but 2 use as lone nay, I would not
- polou/indigo_bow
"Moreover, our algorithm is conceptually simple: we use transactions to manipulate B-tree nodes so that clients need not use complicated concurrency and locking protocols used in prior work. To execute these transactions quickly, we rely on three techniques: (1) We use optimistic concurrency control, so that B-tree nodes are not locked during transaction execution, only during commit. This well-known technique works well because B-trees have little contention on update. (2) We replicate inner nodes at clients. These replicas are lazy, and hence lightweight, and they are very helpful to re- duce client-server communication while traversing the B-tree. (3) We replicate version numbers of inner nodes across servers, so that clients can validate their transactions efficiently, without creating bottlenecks at the root node and other upper levels in the tree."
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, I think many of us are going to trust your opinion on this white paper. All Greek to me.
- Jon-Paul Bussoli
All I understand is that it is in my best interests to cheer for the way you access B-tree nodes in order to continue to enjoy friendfeed reliably. Go friendfeed algorithm go!
- Jon-Paul Bussoli
@nor It's really not the same thing, unless somehow you're using a distributed B-tree on hash collision, however, if you're getting that many collisions, then the hash algorithm is probably wrong or your key width is too small. Then again, I really don't know what I'm talking about.
- Eric Florenzano
Curious as to what problem Paul is looking at... My default data toolkit these days would probably include sqlite for in-memory data, sharded bdb's for btrees that are too big for memory, and hbase/hypertable for a distributed store. I wonder where this fits in...
- DeWitt Clinton
Ok this is a really *nerdy* post! :*)
- Susan Beebe
DeWitt, I just thought that it looked like an interesting paper. As for the several solutions you mention, I don't know that any of them have distributed transactions (maybe bdb, but that doesn't really work).
- Paul Buchheit
B-Trees and Prof. Bayer http://wwwbayer.informatik.tu-... - would be interesting to know what he'd say, unfortunately he's retired a few years ago. Used to be fairly approachable in all matters B-Tree.
- Mustafa K. Isik
@DeWitt - no room for a traditional SQL based database except as an in memory database?
- Nick Lothian
we had designed and implemented distributed tree control, but transactions were considered "too much" for near-real-time, and they were already in protocol... the rest you know as xGSN boxes in GPRS/3G/HSDPA - dynamic routing for mobile packet networks. I'd left team in 2003...
- A. T.
@paul - I'll readily admit to being out of my depth, but it depends on what the definition of "distribution transaction" is. With bdb a combination of local transactions and guaranteed consistent replication you can approximate a distributed transaction at the cost of speed. See http://www.oracle.com/technol... and http://www.oracle.com/technol.... But those won't work across bdb shards.
- DeWitt Clinton
@paul - A table-based distributed store can do this via a lock on entity groups, where entity groups are defined by relationship formed by instances of similar models that belong to the same parent-based ancestry chain. This is how App Engine transactions work -- see http://code.google.com/appengi... and http://code.google.com/appengi.... Ping ryan for some background there. Not sure if hbase or hypertable support this via their api.
- DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt: have you ever successfully used BDB with millions of newly written entries and transaction support turned on? We kept getting transaction logs with millions of entries that were never consumed, so restarts would take hours as it replayed the logs. Configuring BDB to work for large databases is insanely esoteric to say the least, and it may be impossible to get it to work acceptably in some cases.
- Bret Taylor
@bret -- no, definitely not with large databases. We used bdb's heavily at my last company, though. Aggressive sharding is the key if you want to support either transactions or replication, which matches intuition about how it is implemented.
- DeWitt Clinton
But your comment about millions of entries makes me wonder about which data is getting written to which place. I suspect a lot of problems like this end up with the bulk of the data being written transactionless + replicated to a table-based store (or a transactionless bdb), and only a small subset of the data gets transaction support. So multiple datastores. But you guys know this better than I do, so why am I rambling? : )
- DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt, you can also look into all the trouble that Gaia had with bdb - I simply wouldn't trust any fancy bdb functionality.
- Paul Buchheit
Also, AppEngine transactions are limited to a single "entity group", which I assume means a single BigTable tablet. Essentially, they solved distributed transactions by not having them -- all transactions must be local to a single tablet. From the docs: "Every entity belongs to an entity group, a set of one or more entities that can be manipulated in a single transaction. Entity group relationships tell App Engine to store several entities in the same part of the distributed network."
- Paul Buchheit
@paul - yup, that's the trade-off. Entity groups ensure locality, locality makes transactions fast(er). Same old lever problem -- speed of consistency vs. scope of the transactions.
- DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt, there's nothing wrong with having local transactions -- I'm just pointing out that they aren't distributed transactions.
- Paul Buchheit
Point taken. I got way off-topic regarding your original post anyway.
- DeWitt Clinton
The design seems reasonable. The only part that is under-specified is the way they switch from a master node to a slave. I'm curious why they don't use transactions to maintain replicas but instead rely on some unspecified master/slave replication scheme.
- Private Sanjeev
"RethinkDB is a new startup that’s looking to capitalize on this problem by building a storage engine for mySQL databases that’s fully optimized for SSD drives, bringing with it large speed boosts and a number of features sure to catch the eye of many developers. The company, which is part of the latest batch of Y Combinator-funded startups, is in fairly early stages (it started developing the product only two months ago), but it’s already making some substantial headway in the features it can offer. Among these are live schema changes, which allow developers to make significant modifications to their database structure without having to go through complex sync and backup procedures. It also offers lock-free concurrency, which means users will be able to read from the database even while other users are writing to it. And it’s an append-only database, which means developers can quickly recover in the event of a system failure."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
"It is fair to say if you do not like baseball, then you will not like cricket. But if you do, read on a little longer. There are many similarities between baseball and cricket. They are duels of batter (batsman) and pitcher (bowler). They showcase highly individualized, skillful players striving for a collective goal. They are slow, staccato games with plenty of pauses for the audience (and indeed players) to consider what could happen next. Both can move from the seemingly pedestrian to vibrant excitement in less than a second."
- Brad Williamson
from Bookmarklet
Good article, but a few inconsistencies. "India and Pakistan almost went to war over cricket": never happened, and it's hard to imagine it would ever happen.
- Nikhil Dandekar
Also he fails to mention Twenty20 cricket, which is the version of cricket which lasts 3 hours. It is taking the cricketing world by storm and is closest to baseball in terms of length of the game. If Americans were to love cricket, Twenty20 would probably be the best bet.
- Nikhil Dandekar
Interesting article - they don't mention rounders, though.
- Bill Sodeman
I see cricket matches happening regularly during the summer in one of my local parks. The participants seem to be mostly people of South Asian descent.
- John (bird whisperer)
I still don't understand cricket, I want to, but i still don't get it. Must be how non-Americans view US Football.
- Surprisingly Monstrous
At least we can watch a football game in an afternoon! Cricket? When does a match end?
- Bill Sodeman
"But civilizations have thrived on diets of varying macronutrient proportions throughout history. The Inuit ate a diet of almost no carbs and mostly fat with no ill effects. The Masai drink cow blood and milk and eat meat like it’s going out of style. As the nutritionists gasp, I’ll mention that the Masai achieve prime health too. The diet on the island of Okinawa is heavily weighted towards vegetables and rice with some fish and little meat, high in carbs, low in fat. Again, very good health; Okinawans have excellent longevity. So it’s not so much about the macronutrients, as long as you’re getting enough protein and fat to allow the body to function properly. It’s about the types of food being consumed. Dr. Weston Price noted that traditional civilizations thrived until they were introduced to processed grains and sugars, at which point, health declined markedly. Have you ever known someone that dutifully follows a low-fat diet or low-carb diet by eating every processed product in...
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- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
So true. I do prefer fresh food than processed food.
- Bee
This source is a very un-nuanced view of nutrition: "Steak - Deliciously real food, straight off the cow." It makes no distinction between grass-fed and grain-fed beef, or addresses the problems involved with feedlots or concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs). It's also important to note that causality cannot be proven with observational (epidemiological data), but requires a...
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- Bill Koslosky, MD
"Okinawans have excellent longevity" and the latest generation is the first to live less than their parents. But it's not just about food. Longevity is the union of food, exercise & human social connections (and probably genetics) ~ http://news.ycombinator.com/item... & http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Peter Renshaw
Spaghetti may not grow on trees, but it sure is tasty. Screw longevity...I don't want to live a couple years longer if it means forgoing delicious processed foods!
- Doug Beeferman
I would love to hear which searches you tried and especially liked. I think Bing shows your previous queries on the bottom-left of the search results page. Plus you can click and see all your previous searches in the same spot--sharing the queries you liked would be wonderful. :)
- Matt Cutts
Strange coincidence Matt (Really) since I just posted the Matt Cutts 'dual profile' bust here before seeing this :) Honestly, I didn't keep a list. Next time I will .... or do a follow-up. They weren't computational as in the comments. They were worded as actual questions "What time is it?" "Where is <town> <state>" were some of the simple ones. There were a lot of "how do I" type questions. I'm sure you've been there but just tried "Who is Matt Cutts?". Looks like that's fixed :)
- Charlie Anzman
PS: I also did a few "Where can I buy <product> and received some solid organic stuff (in addition to the cashback sponsored stuff at the bottom ... which I didn't like .... IE: The log-through process).
- Charlie Anzman
I must say I like it alot, I was mildly surprised. About time :)
- lisa smith
I most also agree that I have been typing www.bing.com instead of www.google.com -- now if only microsoft offered FREE exchange/imap service to hotmail to be used for the iphone, that will be the day i switch back to windows live from gmail
- Bryce Campbell
I think the campaign is right on. Bing is about decision support rather than search.
- Kathleen Gilroy
I tried the example from the article: "What time is it?". Google wins on that one.
- Tim Tyler
Maybe I'm using it wrong, but I can't seem to find one reason why I'd choose Bing over Google. For instance, I search for 'gs605', a cheap switch that I have my eye on. Google's results are better, I can see immediately how much I can expect to pay.
- Paul Grav
Paul - I 100% agree that Google 'search' is better. In fact, I think it would be VERY difficult for anyone to replicate what they've done at this juncture. The point was that (1) If you phrase your question ... as a question .... you get much better 'answers' than MSN / Live.com ever had, and (2) There has, in fact, been a significant amount of work done here ... not just a facelift. Frankly, it's probably Yahoo who should be ducking here??
- Charlie Anzman
Gonna be busy for a day or two ... but I'll try for a follow-up with examples ... There's big potential here.
- Charlie Anzman
Without examples, that article is pointless. Show some example queries, side-by-sides, why results are better, etc. The article is basically: "Bing is awesome" with no backing evidence.
- Steve and 4 other people
my personal opinion is that google has the best number one result... the search engine watch page is 8th on bing - that's big, but bing's results aren't /that/ bad
- Chris Heath
Top 3 visited post I ever wrote. Never saw it coming ... Ya never know.
- Charlie Anzman
@Charlie. So I have to unlearn my usage habits in order to get the best out of bing? How many other people are willing to do this, or even know that they need to do this? Personally I don't know if bing is better than google or not, but I'm not seeing anything significantly better. I mean, I tried to get the plane ticket prices over time to apear, because that sounded like a great feature, but I failed miserably.
- Paul Grav
Japan panics about the rise of "herbivores"—young men who shun sex, don't spend money, and like taking walks. - By Alexandra Harney - Slate Magazine - http://www.slate.com/id...
"Named for their lack of interest in sex and their preference for quieter, less competitive lives, Japan's "herbivores" are provoking a national debate about how the country's economic stagnation since the early 1990s has altered men's behavior."
- Jon McAlister
from Bookmarklet
"Japanese women are not taking the herbivores' indifference lightly. In response to the herbivorous boys' tepidity, "carnivorous girls" are taking matters into their own hands, pursuing men more aggressively."
- Jon McAlister
Maybe I should move to Japan! I think the women are hot hot hot...and now with less competition!
- dave
As a vegetarian I can't help being irritated by the term. The description doesn't fit.
- Ruchira S. Datta
Ruchira: I'm just guessing, but "herbivore" is probably just the English translation. Presumably the Japanese word has more connotations.
- Gabe
yes it's very nuanced, a complex social equation: vegetarian equals pansy... ;)
- mikepk
I'd like to compile a list of classics - say a top 30 that could be read as a way of getting a good overview of the key ideas. If you have two or three favourite papers that don't obviously already appear here, could you please add them below? What I'm most looking for is the gems - papers that really have a high payoff per unit time spent. Learning of underappreciated gems would be especially helpful!
- Michael Nielsen
Rudi Cilibrasi has some remarkable papers here: http://cilibrar.com/ In particular, his thesis develops a beautiful general purpose method for finding similar objects, based on information theoretic ideas. Roughly speaking, the idea is that the way to compute the similarity of two items, A and B, is to compute (zip(A)+zip(B)-zip(A,B))/max[zip(A), zip(B)], where zip(A) is the length of...
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- Michael Nielsen
Braitenberg, V. (1984). Vehicles: Experiments in synthetic psychology. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
- Daniel Mietchen
My personal classics are 1. Epicurus principle as explained in [Trigg]; 2. Occams razor as explaind in [Domingos]; and 3. Risk reduction as explained in [Netlab]. -- All those principles are much more helpfull to explain what machine learning is about than yet-another few more percent accuracy -- References [Trigg] L. Trigg. ‘Designing Similarity Functions’. Dissertation, University of...
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- joergkurtwegner
Thankyou, everyone, it's good stuff! Keep them coming in.
- Michael Nielsen