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Christopher Galtenberg › Comments
Awesome paint job. Looks real.
Nurse Katie, Todd Lohenry, Terris Linenbach and 48 other people liked this
Dead trucks make me sad :-(
- Jesse Stay
Josh is on fire. Oh wait, no, just his stream.
- Stephen Mack
not good
- VAL D. Zone
LOL
- rowlikeagirl
lol
- Toby Graham
LOL[cubed]
- Adrian
lol Haley
- Christopher Galtenberg
So, in your opinion, be honest now...is Friendfeed still alive and kicking? (update: seemingly so. :) )
Mitchell McKenna, Alfredo, LonelyBob and 61 other people liked this
yes. very much so.
- John Wang
Yes, but has started to develop some health problems and needs a doctor's visit.
- Alex Scoble
It is for me
- Mo Kargas
Yep
- Johnny Worthington
It definitely is for me.
- Curtiss Grymala
I just got here. It's the best platform.
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
for me it is .................
- VAL D. Zone
It's still kicking :). A little less a guess but still :)
- alfred westerveld
Yes.
- Jim Hearts FF
hell ya ......!
- johnpiercy
Yup.
- Spidra Webster
Hell yes it is! All the fine dudes and finest bitches still be rocking the Casbah daily and nightly here on the station with it all! K-FFD!
- Morgan Haley
Yep, still kickin'!
- Beau Liening
from iPhone
Does a bear poop in the woods?
- Junebug (aka Sarah Jill)
Ok, so I don't live here anymore, but I still check in for conversation and positivity.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
for sure
- Josh Haley
Still alive but the momentum and will to live is gone -- and the sale and virtual abandonment was like shutting out the lights in the middle of a party -- a signal for everybody to go home.
- Brian Sullivan
wow. For you maybe, Brian.
- Jim Hearts FF
Yes!
- Anne Bouey
But I am still here.
- Brian Sullivan
Yep. Certainly not as crazy as it was 'back in the day' but it's definitely still kicking.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'm making a concerted effort to pop in and find some great stuff to share
- Alistair (alpinefolk)
As far as I can tell, it's still alive.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
TBH, I feel like I use FF much more now that before the acquisition. So for me, yes, it's very much alive and kicking. 8^D
- Chieze Okoye
I'm tellin' ya: it's the librarians' fault.
- cecily
Yep
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
The Google real-time announcement certainly didn't hurt!!!!
- Charlie Anzman
Honestly, it's not that much different -- plenty to chat about, and plenty to chat with -- and it's still storing all my web finds perfectly. There's an extremely considerate and passionate community. So... sure!
- Christopher Galtenberg
yep
- Wayne Sutton
Yes.
- pea
Yes.
- Kamilah Gill
Yes
- Bonnie Foster
Somewhat less so than the previous old days...
- TrafficBug
being bought by Facebook has definitely dampened my enthusiasm, but yeah, its still alive and kicking
- Jeffrey Canton
Still seems pretty lively to me.
- Gordon Herd
This was asked eight hours ago and has gotten 19 likes so far. Not a resounding "yes."
- Robert Scoble
Compare to @ericschmidt who was added to 700+ lists and 12,000+ followers in 24 hours over on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
But 34 comments, and nearly all "Yes".
- Nils Sandin
Nils: sorry, that's not a resounding yes either. 34 people do not a service make.
- Robert Scoble
yes, affirmative.
- bora "head" basman
The service works for me, so I don't fret about the other new or old services. Both have their place.
- Nils Sandin
werd.
- imabonehead
Haha. I must say I'm starting to see more and more threads like this. The discussion is definitely coming back.
- Roberto Bonini
Twitter for headlines, FF for discussions.
- Nils Sandin
it is to me
- barbarars
It is to me - it all depends on what you make of it
- Jesse Stay
Who is here is replying "yes". Who's not here any more just won't reply. The fact is few weeks ago you wouldn't have asked :) [ah, this means it is not kicking as in the past]
- Markingegno - Donato
from Android
I would say yes. It had a slump period for me for a couple of months, but now I'm putting more in it and getting more from it in return.
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Yes!
- Iván Abrego
Tricky question. Nothing else out there has this feature-set, and AFAIC that's the killer, I use FF because it's the best platform. Maybe some people drifting away since the sale, but OTOH there are new people joining. My buddies Nat and Brent from Calgary both joined around the time of the sale and have both really gotten into it. I have more discussions here than on Twitter, and I think that's true for a lot of people.
- Louis Simoneau
And @Scoble: the fact that you don't get 12 000+ followers on FF makes it less attractive to social media marketing types, which actually makes it BETTER as a platform for meeting and interacting with real people. I have 'friends' on Twitter that I've back-and-forthed with a few times but couldn't really tell you much about, whereas here, I feel like I really KNOW people like Derrick, Jandy, Monique, etc.
- Louis Simoneau
Yup
- Maryam Ardakani
from FreshFeed
its going to die soon
- Farshad
FF is like a small country town. Not a big population but people stop and say "hello".
- Barak B
Yes, indeed!
- Andrew Terry
Is this a bit like a band you feel you've discovered becoming mainstream?
- plooptionary
Yes, it's very much alive and kicking!
- Michael Fidler
+Louis Simoneau (& I answered above earlier)
- Kamilah Gill
as far as I can tell, yes.
- Derek Coward
I'm here
- Jimminy
Still alive. :)
- 3Cinteractive, L.L.C.
from twhirl
You bet. Still the best interface and most interesting conversations
- Alan Morris
from iPhone
Yep. Cranking along just like Jaiku.
- Ken Sheppardson
Yep, I just saw that one of those Twitter Social Media Guru's found the place and followed 4k people in 5 minutes.
- Jimminy
...
- ★ Soner Gönül
yes. those who say otherwise can go somewhere else.
- Aron Michalski
from BuddyFeed
Hey Zee, from what platform did you originally post your question? I'm seeing it via Friendfeed by way of a friend.
- Rich Reader
@Rich on friendfeed itself
- Zee.
Only to some hardcore dedicated FF'ers. Other then that its just here for Robert Scoble to come on and preach how every worthy tech person he follows is on Twitter and how this site is dead.
- CW™
No. We're all dead. Go away.
- Glen Mistletoe
I'm standing under the Mistletoe O_O
- Micah Wittman
Zee, regarding your question, and I'm no Godin apologist, but his '1000 true fans' comes to mind http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_b...
- Micah Wittman
And regarding Robert's statement, OF COURSE a founder of Google will get thousands people who click the follow button. Then what? I look forward to Eric having 12,000 individual conversations this week, so someone ping me when that happens :) I've gleaned more valuable insights into the thought process and perspective of Google/Googlers from being in and around the conversations started by DeWitt on Friendfeed than I have in any other way.
- Micah Wittman
I'm not done yet. Christopher Galtenberg http://friendfeed.com/zee... and Louis Simoneau http://friendfeed.com/zee... make great points.
- Micah Wittman
Sure is
- Herb Hernandez
I have to excuse myself for not being very active for quite a while: I was being busy organising the Dutch Bloggies. I do think FriendFeed is still alive, but I sure wished there were more Dutch people to keep up a conversation with. It's making it difficult, now I'm out of organising for a week, to start up being involved again. I'm jealous at the Egyptian & Italian people, who seem to have a whole community here.
- Ton Zijp
Friendfeed is immortal, perfect, the best. Friendfeed will never die. ... in fact, the end of behemoths like Facebook and Twitter will be tweeted on Friendfeed.!
- Petr Buben
Always..!
- ★ Soner Gönül
Just got back into using FF more heavily and find it much more enjoyable to any of the Twitter clients I've found. I can actually engage with the people that I "follow" and learn more about them and find interests instead of just trying to separate the wheat from the chaff like I feel I do on Twitter
- Ian Rudy
still here.
- Mike Nencetti
alive
- gemella
kick
- Kevin Fox
Yes. The primary thing that has changed is the content.
- Steven Perez
And it no longer buys us flowers anymore, the bitch.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I think this thread proves what is fact....
- Mathew™ one of a kind
WOW - I guess so!!! May have to come off digest...
- Robyn Hawk
O Hai There! :-)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
Am I the only one who got tired of responding to posts that ask if the site is still alive? "Charlie, you there? Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? Can you here me *now*?....I gave up on 'em after Scoble's 2nd one. Just ignore
- Samuel L. Jackson
Palin's Pals - Slate Magazine - http://www.slate.com/id...
"At least Richard Nixon had the ill fortune to look like what he was: a haunted scoundrel and repressed psychopath. Whereas the usefulness of Sarah Palin to the right-wing party managers is that she combines a certain knowingness with a feigned innocence and a still-palpable blush of sex. But she should take care to read her Alexander Pope: That bloom will soon enough fade, and it will fade really quickly if she uses it to prostitute herself to the Nixonites on one day and then to cock-tease the rabble on the next."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
Google's Broken Hiring Process - Google - Gawker - http://gawker.com/5392947...
Zaki Manian, Monica Anderson, Richard Chen and 35 other people liked this
What do you know? Valleywag got everything wrong. Google is hiring, not laying off. Also, our interview scores actually correlate very well with on-the-job performance. Peter Seibel asked me if there was anything counterintuitive about the process and I said that people who got one low score but were hired anyway did well on-the-job. To me, that means the interview process is doing very well, not that it is broken. It means that we don't let one bad interview blackball a candidate. We'll keep interviewing, keep hiring, and keep analyzing the results to improve the process. And I guess Valleywag will keep doing what they do...
- Peter Norvig
from Bookmarklet
Nice shirt!
- Jim Norris
That is a nice shirt.
- τorƍue
You had at least three rounds of layoffs this year, Peter. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...
- Ryan Tate
Further, while you hired a rare few people who got "1" scores on one their interviews, you rejected 99 percent of those people, and you have no idea how they would have performed. Those you did hire turned out to be top performers. Sounds broken to me. (I am the author of the Valleywag post in question.)
- Ryan Tate
Hi Ryan, thanks for commenting. First: we get over 1000 resumes a day. We can't hire all of them. I am painfully aware that a few of the people we don't hire would be as good or better than a few of the people we do. I feel bad for the people we have to reject who are equally qualified, but that is the nature of uncertain decision-making. Now what I said in the Seibel interview: we try...
more...
- Peter Norvig
It's a great shirt. Google is tops. No system is perfect -- so long as there's a weighting for intangibles and accounting for style differences between interviewer and interviewee, all should be fine.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Bump. Maybe Ryan didn't get a chance to see that you'd responded, Peter.
- Matt Cutts
Could you recommend any literature on data driven hiring practices? Google seems to use many analogical reasoning questions for screening applicants. It would be interesting if there was a relationship between analogical reasoning and productivity.
- Brandon Smietana
Doesn't look like Ryan spends much time here: 5 subscriptions, 64 subscribers, 3 comments, 1 like. The like was on an old Scoble post from June.
- Ken Sheppardson
Making buildings more efficient: It helps to understand human behavior | Grist - http://www.grist.org/article...
"The most puzzling behavioral phenomenon to understand when it comes to building efficiency is that Most People Won’t Do Sh*t (MPWDS). “Most people” includes people who could make money by doing sh*t, people who say they will do sh*t, even people who have promised to do sh*t. I’ve heard from people who write about energy efficiency for a living, know exactly what to do to make their homes more efficient, and still don’t do sh*t."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
"It’s hard to disentangle the reasons why—some mix of status quo bias, hyperbolic discounting, and loss aversion to begin with—but it’s clear that public surveys and polls about this tend to be misleading. What people say they’re willing to do and what they demonstrate they’re willing to do are very different things. Attitudes don’t translate into actions."
- Christopher Galtenberg
Screw Jesus, What Would *I* Do? - Ryan Sager - Neuroworld - True/Slant - http://trueslant.com/ryansag...
"Epley found that when people contemplated God’s opinions, their brains activated similarly to when they were contemplating their own opinions — the same was not true when they contemplated the opinions of other people."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
Today is a day long coming... A day of sadness... A day I want to just lock myself away and hide... but a day I know I can't, that's not what he would have wanted and not what he taught me how to operate... I'm so scared...
rowlikeagirl, Kol Tregaskes, Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah and 13 other people liked this
:/
- mjc
:(
- Anne Bouey
My boss passed away this morning...
- Johnny Worthington
Yikes! Sorry to hear Johnny. =(
- ronin
jeez :'( that sucks rocks :( we're all here for you man
- mjc
I am very sorry Johnny. I wish I could give you some strength today, know I am thinking of you and hugging you mega tight in my mind.
- aden
:-( Sorry to hear this.
- Junebug (aka Sarah Jill)
Oh, Johnny. I'm so sorry. Hugs and prayers for all of you.
- Laura Lou Who
Johnny, I'm really, really sorry. My condolences.
- josh neff, geek at large
My condolences Johnny
- MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
I'm sorry, Johnny.
- The Letter M
so sorry you're going through this.
- Joe Silence is not dead
My condolences to you and all of his friends and family. You're in my prayers.
- joey
So sorry for your loss, Johnny.
- Anne Bouey
Condolences to you and all his family and friends.
- WorldofHiglet
Sorry to hear it, Johnny. My condolences to you.
- Jim Hearts FF
My condolences.
- Sarah G.
hey johnny sorry to hear about your loss. my thoughts and prayers are with you.
- (jeff)isageek
I think it is special that you cared that much for your boss. My condolences. *hugs*
- Yolanda
Sorry to hear that, Johnny; Yolanda is right, it's special you cared that much for your boss..
- Andrew Terry
He was a groomsmen at my wedding and is Georgia's god father... He was more than a boss...
- Johnny Worthington
Oh, sorry to hear it.
- s t e v e
I'm sorry for your loss
- Alan Simpson
:( Sorry for your loss, Johnny.
- Alex Scoble
sorry to hear it.
- Morgan Haley
you gotta be strong and remember the good times. My condolences to you and all of his friends and family
- Peter Dawson
I'm so sorry to hear that, Johnny. We're thinking of you and your family. <3
- Rochelle
I am so so sorry my friend. :'(
- Kamath (नमः)
I'm sorry for your loss, Johnny. :-(
- pea
*hugs*
- Michael W. May
If he had a friend like you, I'm thinking that he was a quality man that is now in a much better place. Thoughts and prayers for all that knew and loved him.
- Morgan Haley
So sorry to hear this Johnny, my condolences. :(
- Charlotte M
Aww, fcuk, man, that's rough. When/if you're ready to talk about it, you know we'll be here, mate. If not, well...., you know we'll be here, mate. :-(
- Andrew Terry
Sorry to hear about it. You obviously held him in high regard. That's not always the case with bosses. Sincere condolences from half-a-world away.
- .LAG liked that
You guys are helping more than you ever will know :)
- Johnny Worthington
So sorry to hear this... :(
- Cheryl Jones
Damn, Johnny. Big hugs coming to you straight from Los Angeles. I'm sorry for you and your fellow employees.
- Derrick
Sorry, Johnny. Bad news is bad news.
- Louis Gray
Sorry to hear, Johnny.
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
:((((( Sorry to hear that Johnny. :(((((
- AJ Batac
Sorry to hear Johnny :-(
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Sorry, Johnny. Hang in there.
- Michael Hocter
So sorry hang in there
- Sarah Slaven
Very sorry to hear this, my condolences to you and your boss' family.
- Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕
Sorry for your loss, man.
- Carlos Ayala
No! Oh, dude...Man, I'm sorry.
- Josh Haley
:o( Very sorry to hear it. Big hug?
- Nurse Katie
((JW))
- VAL D. Zone
I'm very sorry for your loss. Your boss and all who loved him are in my thoughts.
- vicster
Shit man, sorry to hear :(((
- Mo Kargas
Wow, sorry to hear that... Was it sudden? My condolences to you and your co-workers.
- Lindsay
Oh, wow...I am sorry to hear that, Johnny. Condolences to you and your workmates.
- JA Castillo
{{{{{{{{{Johnny}}}}}}}}}
- Mellissa Claus
Sorry for your loss :( With someone so close to you, that means there are a lot of good memories. Remember them in his honor
- Tamara
So sorry for your loss, Johnny. Condolences.
- Mona Nomura
I'm sorry, Johnny.
- Helen Sventitsky
Sorry to hear it Johny :(
- Joe Pierce
I'm so sorry for your loss, Johnny. :-(
- Anthony K. Valley ©
from iPhone
Sorry to hear that.
- Bruce Lewis
Hang in there bro!
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Sorry to hear :(
- Bindu Reddy
:(
- Rodfather
I'm so sorry, Johnny. It's great that you cared so much for your boss - or that you worked for someone you cared so much about, looked at another way. But that does make it harder now. {{hugs}}
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
=(
- Beau Liening
*hugs*
- Nathalie, Dreamer of FF
Very sorry to hear this.
- Kamilah Gill
:( *hugs*
- Michelle Martinez
No doubt he'd have been pleased to hear you held him in such high regard. Good thoughts during a hard time.
- Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)
Oh my gosh, Johnny. I just saw this. I am so sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you, your coworkers, and your boss's friends and family.
- Call me Bronco
My condolences Johnny :(
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
So very sorry.
- MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF
sorry you're hurting, take care
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Sorry to hear this, Johnny. Sounds like he was also a friend / mentor.
- Richard ¿digame? Walker
My boss killed himself back in February. Didn't feel the same as you, TBH. Dude was a real PITA to deal with. Condolences anyway, sorry for your loss.
- LANjackal
Hugs to you and your family, Johnny. So sorry for your loss... :-(
- Lisa L. Seifert
Oh, Johnny, I just saw this now. I'm so sorry for this loss. The pain of it helps tell you that it's real; the friendship and the beauty of knowing and caring for someone deeply. My heart goes out to you.
- Micah Wittman
Sounds like a special guy, sorry to hear about the loss, buddy. :(
- Pete Delucchi
..
- ★ Soner Gönül
I'm so sorry Johnny, I wish I could offer more than condolences and prayer.
- Glenn Slaven
Sorry to hear that, Johnny.
- David Cook
Hand on shoulder bro
- Christopher Galtenberg
giant hug.
- Laura Norvig
My condolences, - and a big hug..
- Jeannette Høvring
Very sorry to hear that. Prayers and thoughts go out to family, staff, and friends.
- Bryan R. Adams
Enjoy your memories of your boss. I hope you find comfort in them.
- phil baumann
Obama, Trimmer - http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_dai...
"Conservatism is not only about limited government, and where it seeks to limit government it does so because it sees government as a force of instability. But what about those times when government is instead a force for stability? Defense leaps to mind. Conservatism, I would argue, is first and foremost about preserving or regaining a stable society. Liberty and prosperity are two of the most profound ways we can achieve a stable civilization. Limiting government often leads to both these things, and thus it is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
"And when limiting government actually brings about social chaos rather than social stability, then it’s outworn its use."
- Christopher Galtenberg
"This was Oakeshott's critique of Hayek after a fashion. If the market becomes an ideology in itself, it ceases to be conservative. The real conservative tilts from intervention to laisser-faire depending on the circumstances. He may lean in the long run toward less government as a more stable principle in a free, self-reliant and increasingly diverse country than more government. But...
more...
- Christopher Galtenberg
"What the conservative is about, in other words, is balance. And that's why Oakeshott's famous metaphor for the kind of politician he admired was a "trimmer." And one of his treasured works of political writing was Halifax's sadly neglected "The Character Of A Trimmer". Today we regard a trimmer as a flip-flopper. But a trimmer in the nautical sense was a man simply tasked with trimming...
more...
- Christopher Galtenberg
"What Bush and Cheney did to the system in panicked response to the emergency of 9/11 - a massive and radical attack on constitutional norms, a conflation of religious certainty and government, and a huge expansion of government power and spending - requires now a very intense period of Halifax-style balancing. Obama's moderation may, in fact, not be radical enough on Oakeshottian...
more...
- Christopher Galtenberg
Matthew Yglesias » The Mutual Fund Fraud - http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archive...
"All these government-sponsored savings vehicles—401(k), IRA, etc.—should be set up to strongly encourage people to put their money in indexes. It’s bizarre that the government is, by bipartisan agreement, basically complicit in encouraging people to funnel their savings into elaborate frauds. Why not teach this material to high school and college students?"
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
Top ten great singers who can't sing - Telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture...
 |
Laniez, Helen Sventitsky, Russellreno and 31 other people liked this
1. Bob Dylan 2. Lou Reed 3. Tom Waits 4. Johnny Cash 5. John Lydon 6. Ian Dury 7. Leonard Cohen 8. Nick Cave 9. Siouxsie Sioux 10. Jarvis Cocker
- RAPatton
I think Tom Waits can sing really well. He chooses to sing with that style but still a good singer.
- Rodfather
I think he /used/ to be able to sing well, but that was many years ago.
- Michael W. May
I think Siouxsie Sioux can sing, too. She has a nice warble.
- Admiral Anika
Yes, they can sing. What the tele is complaining about here is that they don't like their instruments. And in some cases that they don't like the style in which they choose to sing. But I've heard most of the artists on this list and they're all capable of holding a tune. I actually went off on this kind of attitude recently http://friendfeed.com/music-b...
- Spidra Webster
Yes, this list is like any others, subjective. Link bait. Comment bait. (at the source, not you RAP hehe)
- Michael W. May
Hard to argue about Bob Dylan though :)
- Eric Logan
Nick Cave can't sing? That's news to me.
- Christopher Harley
from iPhone
You should hear Leonard Cohen now. Went to Red Rocks in June -- wow.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Johnny Cash? I counter that with the cover he did of Hurt. I challenge anyone to find a more poignant version of a song. And he sang it well and true only a short time before his death.
- Jason Huebel
DAVID LEE ROTH
- Josh Haley
Meat Loaf comes to mind, though.
- Jason Huebel
If you are going to mention Lou Reed, you have to include Nico too.
- Martha
That list includes a bunch of my favorite singers; limited voices yes but still much more interesting than many of the pretty-voiced singers.
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
What Crone said! Music (vocal or otherwise) isn't always supposed to be perfect and melodic. Sometimes making it so actually undermines the point of the work. Just ask Bela Bartok. (Oh wait, he's dead.)
- Mark Jepsen
Also, there are many many covers of "Knockin' on Heaven's Door", some quite moving, but nobody, and I mean NO BODY, does it better the Dylan.
- Mark Jepsen
@Jason - I recall reading somewhere that Cash's cover of "Hurt" made Trent Reznor sound like he was whining over a prom date. It really was remarkably moving. As far as the list - I adore six of the ten.
- Marci Maleski
Yeah, Cash's "Hurt" surpassed the original by a hundred miles. It's wonderful.
- Jason Huebel
As soon as I saw Johnny Cash on the list, it lost all credibility with me.
- Derek Coward
Johnny Cash doesn't really belong there.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
My first experience with Hurt was Johnny Cash's music video. I was quite simple arrested by it; reflecting on it now, the view into my own humanity in that moment was wrenching and purging all at once. I'm still dumbfounded about it.
- Micah Wittman
Haha great list
- Onur Gündüz
Attitude may be more important than wisdom -- wisdom being the crown jewels in attitude's kingdom.
Alexander Kruel liked this
By you?
- Alexander Kruel
Oui... a puzzle I'm pondering.
- Christopher Galtenberg
There was this study which showed that people who master college are not necessarily more intelligent than those who don't but often simply have an attitude advantageous towards formal education. In other words, they have the will, an ability to assert themselves, a kind of self-control that others lack.
- Alexander Kruel
If you have the wisdom necessary to recognize danger mixed with a reckless attitude it won't be of much advantage regarding one's survival. A cautious attitude, even without wisdom, may make you less prone to error. Also, if your attitude is reckless, then you really don't care about the wisdom to recognize danger in the first place. So attitude seems to be more important on more than one degree.
- Alexander Kruel
Check the Redesigned Google (With Always-Visible Sidebar) Yourself - http://blogoscoped.com/archive...
Ritu, Nispell, Jeannette Høvring and Nathan Snyder liked this
When you paste the following into the address bar of your browser when on google.com and hit return, you should find yourself as new participant of Google's latest and more all-encompassing prototype test – the one with a new logo, buttons, and always-visible left-hand pane in results. Please note I needed to sign out first for this to work.
- Eric Logan
from Bookmarklet
Interesting - I thought everything was supposed to start looking like Wave
- Christopher Galtenberg
I like being able to search time specific posts in the sidebar.
- Eric Logan
In this "real-time" world where the half-life of most posts is about 30 min. We are losing the signal and drowning in the noise. This also incents people to constantly post to be in the conversation...Making the signal to noise problem even worse...
A Mitchell, Gökmen Karasu, phil baumann and 35 other people liked this
FF has 2 great ways of addressing the problem - best of day and bumping up popular posts. Twitter has none... it is insane to watch your twitter stream go by during the day. 95% of the posts are really not interesting/relevant
- Bindu Reddy
I'm tempted to make "best of" the default view somehow (perhaps with new stuff streaming in at that top). I'm afraid it would kill new stuff (and therefore itself) though.
- Paul Buchheit
What about doing something like Facebook... if the post gets enough "likes/comments" only than bump into the default view and have a link to the "live feed"
- Bindu Reddy
You know...I rarely go into my BOD page because I can tell exactly who is going to be in there. It is *always* the same 6 people everyday. BOM is even worse. And I don't see how post have a expiration date. I go back weeks, sometimes months for some people.
- Admiral Anika
Anika, interesting... Yes I see what you are saying about BOD having the same usual suspects. So technically the BOD does give you "quality" posts relevant to you. It gives you posts from people who have the most "engaged following".... I think the FB news feed has the same issue.
- Bindu Reddy
Therein lies the rub that wouldn''t make it "real time" anymore. Except, the real time web is a buzz word for suckers #doanybodyno? I'm on the same page with Anika, I'm looking for fresh content, though not up to THIS SECOND (twitter)
- sofarsoShawn
Problem is, if the "signal" posts aren't timed right, they don't get enough initial response to appear in Best Of Day.
- Bruce Lewis
Exactly. BOD often strikes me as the same people circle-jerking each other. If I want interesting content, I have a list for people who post interesting things and of course, stalking *their* friends. The posts may not have many comments, but to me that's a good thing. I often get a better quality-more engaged conversation with just another person. No snark-offs, IOW.
- Admiral Anika
& Bindu you make an awesome point, on those "who have the most engaged following"...? Scoble's called them a "cult-following"
- sofarsoShawn
I hardly visit BOD too. I go through it if I'm not signed on for a decent length of time in case I miss a birthday post or announcement ;) I like jumping in and out and sometimes look up certain people / lists. I'll miss a lot of peep's content who are active in other timezones.
- Rodfather
"cult-following" is a good name. In some cases it is also a band of people who comment on each other's posts bumping it up. My FB is something like that. I have set of friends who comment on my posts and they comment on mine... this bumps up my posts to others who don't really like it much
- Bindu Reddy
Better to have tags, filters. BOD reminds me too much of jr. high popularity contests (not bitching about people who regularly land there, I'm just saying that BOD is not necessarily a measurement of quality of content).
- Spidra Webster
I had lists on FF ... than I deleted all of them, simply cause I was finding it hard to click-through to lists and read.
- Bindu Reddy
Maybe you just need one list called "signal".
- Bruce Lewis
he he :)
- Bindu Reddy
I will visit the BOD page if I have not been on FF much during the day. That way I can find out what the important / popular topics if the day were. I really like the BOD feature.
- Jeff P. Henderson
I think Anika just outlined above what makes FF so great. You can follow who you want, and filter specific content. Lists, which FF has had for a while help this immensely You can create your own BOD by creating a list of interesting people, filtering out all posts that don't have, say 5 comments.
- Jeff P. Henderson
I subscribe to fewer people that are very active so it makes it easier.
- ashish
What you, in theory want, is a "Best of Day" tailored to you based on your interests. That's what my6sense is trying to do (on the iPhone for feeds), calling it "digital intuition". The more I use it, the better it gets.
- Louis Gray
It depends who you subscibe to. My BOD is very good.
- Paul Buchheit
from iPhone
catch that double-entendre? hé hé *smirks* my BOD's like soooo hawwwwt toooo, like phenomenal! But I wanna see Buchheat's!!!
- sofarsoShawn
Paul, I almost agree but I'd add "it depends who you subscribe to AND who's subscribed to them"…Obviously you'd know better than I, but to me it seems like BOD links became a collection of what the most popular (and not necessarily the most interesting) users were sharing. I wrote a brief bit more here: http://friendfeed.com/kaz...
- Adam Kazwell
In general if you are pretty selective about your subscriptions your feed is going to be good :))
- Bindu Reddy
[the default] BOD doesn't really interest me either, not as much as the regular feed lists I have.
- Andrew C
I disagree that the half life of posts is 30 minutes. They can live far longer here on FF.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Yes FF posts have a greater half life... I should have mentioned I was talking about twitter
- Bindu Reddy
Tweets -- snowflakes that melt before they hit the ground.
- Sean McBride
This is why I am such a big fan of Topsy, and now use it on a daily basis to discover big signals in the noise. Leading patterns of tweets in the aggregate can have a shelf life of weeks or months. We definitely need a Topsy-like front end for Friendfeed.
- Sean McBride
BOD is ideal for emails. People should get those emails maybe by default. As far as the default screen, maybe just two tabs at the top: Now and Best
- Christopher Galtenberg
I hold time order responsible. Every tool we use for reading seems to order by time rather than relevance: http://akkartik.name/blog...
- Kartik Agaram
Just finished watching all seven seasons of The West Wing for the first time. Sad that there isn't more!
Adrian, Spidra Webster, ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0, and Roberto Bonini liked this
Agreed 100%!
- Louis Gray
Agreed. I've watched 1 - 4 twice. Going to get season 5 soon.
- Roberto Bonini
I kept all of them in a sleeve 2 feet away, I keep them for the awaken lunch. Listened only to the first season, got six of 'em.
- ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,
I admit I've never seen the West Wing
- Jesse Stay
You will find it to be a fairly equitable show, Jesse. Their guest characters more coherently voice the conservative viewpoint than any in the GOP.
- Christopher Galtenberg
The imminent GOP repudiation of Reagan - http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_dai...
"The direction the GOP is heading does require a repudiation of Reagan's legacy. Reagan raised taxes occasionally in deference to some concern about deficits. The current GOP refuses to even think about thinking about raising any taxes. Reagan embraced immigrants and indeed granted amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
"Reagan was prepared to negotiate with the Soviet Union. The current GOP does not believe in meeting or negotiating with any foreign enemies. Reagan opposed an anti-gay initiative in California. Today's GOP regards anti-gay initiatives as a key fundraising and base-stoking tool. Reagan never went in for extensive and open-ended nation-building and pulled out of Lebanon after a bombing that killed many Marines. The current Republican party never retreats on anything."
- Christopher Galtenberg
"Reagan took personal responsibility for his violation go the law in Iran-Conrtra. Bush still has not taken responsiibility for the illegal authorization of torture. Reagan took pride in his reading and his thinking on the philosophical and economic and social arguments that forged modern conservatism and the critique of the welfare state. Today's leader of the GOP - Sarah Palin - holds...
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- Christopher Galtenberg
If Roe Were Overturned, Ctd - The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_dai...
"I remain a conservative who wants to see necessary change occur as far as possible with as broad a consensus as possible and who believes that decisions made closest to the ground are the least worst ways of avoiding massive errors or hideous unintended consequences. This means that injustice will remain longer than it should in an ideal world. But we live in a real world. And that distinction between theory and practice matters to an Oakeshottian like myself. But it also means that justice when it arrives is real, more durable and can more easily become part of the fabric of a society."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
The Next Web is now officially in the top 100 blogs in the world!
Robert Freeze, Ethan, Vinay | विनय and 56 other people liked this
ok Friendfeed is absolutement dead. :)
- Zee.
Congratulations!
- Amit Nangare
Raaaad
- Samuel L. Jackson
Makin History
- Andrea Contino
Cheers Zee :)
- Christopher Galtenberg
Congratulations!
- Nicholas Kreidberg
Well done, Zee.
- Stephen Mack
Congrats!
- Jinni
congrats Zee!!!
- Roberto
Awesome Zee
- Hunter Clarke
congratulations!
- Loic Le Meur
Excellent Zee.. Congrats!
- Bill Heslin
fabulous!! much success :o)
- Aline Ohannessian
Wow!! Congratulations!! :)
- Susan Beebe
from iPhone
Nice!
- Anne Bouey
Congrats Zee (and your team) :)
- Ozkan Altuner
from iPhone
Congrats.
- Dennis O'Neil
Woot it should be
- Robert Higgins
Congrats Zee!
- Garin Kilpatrick
awesome!
- Chris Rogers
from BuddyFeed
Congrats!
- Carmen
Excellent!
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
Holy! Congrats Zee!
- AJ Batac
Congrats guys! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
nice
- ffcode
Way to go!
- Lillian Pucci
Congrats Zee!
- Garin Kilpatrick
Well done!
- Gordon Herd
Why America Needs an Economic Strategy - BusinessWeek - http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...
"The stark truth is that the U.S. has no long-term economic strategy—no coherent set of policies to ensure competitiveness over the long haul. Strategy embodies clear priorities, based on understanding the strengths we need to preserve and the weaknesses that threaten our prosperity the most. Strategy addresses what to do, but also what not to do. In dealing with a crisis, experience teaches us that steps to address the immediate problem must support a long-term strategy. Yet it is far from clear that we are taking the steps most important to America's long-term economic prosperity."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
Google Makes A Bid To Control The Internet - http://regulargeek.com/2009...
Serbay Arda Ayzit, rowlikeagirl, Thomas Power and 23 other people liked this
Do you agree with this? I tend to think that moving the Web toward faster load times and faster data transfer between services is a good thing in general, regardless of whether this benefits Google or not.
- Louis Gray
Yes, I agree, especially as per the new programming language mentioned in the article, it will shift the spectrum to their advantage, not overnight but slowly and surely, in large part due to the fact that they own so the most popular domains/real estate out there so if you wanna be a player in the game you'll have to speak the language. And don't forget it's computer operating system coming out shortly.
- sofarsoShawn
The anti-trust question will be whether it benefits Google to the detriment of its competitors, due to Google's market power. But of course the defense is that it's all open-source, so the playing field is level.
- LogEx
I find it disturbing how the genuine interest of Google engineers to make the user experience on the internet better is construed as something that could be interpreted as 'evil'. Now even open sourcing an experimental programming language some interested engineers were toying with is interpreted as hint for evilness.
- Henner Zeller
Henner, It has nothing to do with Google engineers and their genuine interests, it has to do with how Google will pay for said engineers. I've got no problem with faster load times, I'm just not sure it should be tied to page rank. If Google was non-profit we wouldn't be having this discussion!!
- Chris Myles
sometimes technology evolves slowly or stagnates as no player on the market is able to push a change strong enough to do a difference. its quite great to see a example where good engineers propose a logical improvement for all with the power behind it to make it reality.
- Marco Hennings
The idea is not whether Google is pure evil, but people need to start thinking about what they are doing. Creating "faster standards" and changing your search results rankings based on page load times is not a big deal, until you look at their search monopoly. Is it evil or possibly illegal? I am not sure, but they are definitely in a different position than they used to be. If we keep...
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- Rob Diana
Competition is always good :-)
- Jesse Stay
Agree with Chris, not sure load time should be factoring in to page rank. That is the only thing in all these new initiatives that is a concern. It is biasing the game in favor of people who can afford the fastest infrastructure, not the people that put out the most interesting content.
- Ed Millard
As a user, I would rather see slow quality than fast crap. Good things come to those that wait. As far as 2 pages with the same content, I'd rather see the one with the better reputation, the original source of the content, with all the comments, than a splog that happens to be hosted on the faster blogspot and loads fast because there are no comments.
- April Russo (app103)
We don't like imperialistic governments, but hegemony from Google seems to be A-okay. Funny how nobody looks at the consequences for others, or longterm consequences for all, so long as their own immediate desires are satisfied.
- Dawn
Dawn, then what is this discussion we're having here, right now? is it not exactly what you're saying nobody does?
- Chris Heath
Okay, Chris, fair point. I just get very tired of reading all the "but, but, but's" thrown out for Google's sake. It's like a mother making endless excuses for her bullying brat. If it were Microsoft doing the things that Google has been trying to get away with (like grabbing all book and art "orphan works" for themselves, as just one example), there would be a much, much bigger outcry. The Tech world, including most tech bloggers, blindly protect Google like a favored son, no matter what they do.
- Dawn
GASP! Dawn, do you almost agree with me? Seriously, I feel like the only person complaining about this right now.
- Rob Diana
Henner said it right, they are trying to make things better, and we know that the current internet stack, from back-end languages to browsers, needs a major upgrade. Chris Myles, if Google was non-profit, uh, yeah -- we would def not be having this discussion. And for those who complain that speed should not factor into page-rank, I'm with you.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Wait, I think that most of you complaining about Google's "hegemony" missed LogEx's point about Open Source, which is a huge point. Go and SPDY (assuming it's open source) shouldn't even enter your equations as enabling a Google monopoly because they're all open source and it doesn't benefit GOOG financially in the slightest for Microsoft or whomever to use them (which they could just...
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- Chieze Okoye
Chieze, you're exactly correct - people do need to keep a watch on these types of things, but if you're getting all up in arms about Go and SPDY then you're not paying attention or worse, you're being disingenuous (i'm not directing this comment at anyone in particular, just pointing out the corollary to Dawn's point about blindly protecting... you can blindly attack too)
- Chris Heath
and Dawn, didn't microsoft try to get into this book deal thing and then bail out from it? yeah they did... so where was the uproar back then? there wasn't any... people are in agreement that these orphan works and public domain works need to get into digital form for preservation.
- Chris Heath
Chris, that is what I am trying to do, just pointing out what is happening and we need to be aware.
- Rob Diana
Sure is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding in this thread. Let's take a look at a more technical perspective on SPDY, shall we? http://www.mnot.net/blog... Key paragraph is "In other words, they seem to be positioning this as input to the eventual design of HTTP/2.0, WAKA or whatever, rather than a browser-specific push to define a new protocol alone."
- Jason Wehmhoener
Jason, I see. That's an informative post.
- Chieze Okoye
I'm glad that Dawn and Rob have their eyes open too. I have been the lone voice crying that Google is dangerous for too long. Seriously dangerous. They have far too much power over what the masses can find and can't and eventually possibly what even the wise can find. Even worse they can decide which businesses thrive and which die. They are in a position to put any online business...
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- Internet Strategist
The caution about Google may or may not be justified, but there is a lot of confusion in this thread about the technology being discussed. If you want to discuss the social/poltical/economic issues in concert with the technical issues, then it is advisable to be clear on how the technology actually works. If that isn't something you want to do, then leave the technology out of it.
- Jason Wehmhoener
"I have been the lone voice crying that Google is dangerous for too long." -- Please....
- Chris Heath
Yeah, no kidding, Melodramatic, much?
- Chieze Okoye
Hard to believe she didn't get the job ;) - http://www.businessinsider.com/my-nigh...
sean percival, Roman Zolotarev, Mark Douglass and 56 other people liked this
"“I want you to estimate,” Oliver began, “how much money you think Google makes daily from Gmail ads.” Oh. My. GOSH. Was he serious? The answer depended on so many different factors, none of which I had any clue how to guesstimate. “Um, you mean a hard number? Maybe…$70,000?” Oliver’s hearty laugh told me my response was foolish. ... Now I was asked for an exact amount of revenue. “Say each G-mail user opens seven new e-mails a day. They would see 28 ads. If they click on ¼ of those ads, then only seven ads are clicked. If all advertisers are charged $0.05 per clicked ad, then the amount of revenue would be whatever $0.05 x 7 ads x the number of G-mail users is. Does that make any sense at all?” “Kind of.” Oliver sounded confused. “You lost me at the ‘only clicking on ¼ of the ads’ comment. Let’s move on.” "
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
Does everyone get those estimation questions? I didn't get anything like that in the interviews I had at Google.
- Benjamin Golub
There's a reason I'm not a Google employee...
- Robert Scoble
Here's a hint: if they ask you to estimate something, don't just make up a random number. Also, don't assume that people click on 1/4 of all ads :)
- Paul Buchheit
@bgolub She was interviewing to be an APM. I imagine those interviews are quite different from Eng interviews. I can't be sure having only done Eng interviews myself.
- EricaJoy
Its unfortunate, because the interviewers need to filter, but some people don't do well when put on the spot under real-time stress, but in a job situation could solve similar problems being left to think about them. The kinds of skills needed to win lightning math competitions or TopCoder, are not necessarily the skills best needed to work on a product.
- Ray Cromwell
The problem I had with my interviews at Google were they were too literal. They were all questions that a recent college grad would be familiar with but anyone with any length of experience in the industry would have forgotten by this point. Going back and studying after I remember the answers now but I felt like I was being interviewed by someone just out of college (which was probably the case).
- Jesse Stay
I've heard of one Eng interview question that could be answered quickly by estimation (but more slowly by just computing it). (I wasn't asked that question myself, nor did I ever ask it.)
- Ruchira S. Datta
Priceless "You lost me at the 'only clicking on ¼ of the ads'" comment is priceless :)
- Micah Wittman
Jesse, I wasn't asked any questions like that, nor did I ask any. I guess the interview process can be very variable.
- Ruchira S. Datta
The "estimate something unknowable" question is something anybody interviewing for an even remotely technical position should expect these days--even though you might not get it--and you should understand the interviewer is asking to hear the process you go through, not the answer. As far as the 1/4 click through rate goes... well... that's classic.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ha-ha, clicking on ¼ of the ads seemed like a ridiculously high estimate to me. I never click on an ad. And now I have ad block pro installed so I can't even see them.
- Laura Norvig
A Google interviewer asked me similarly ridiculous questions. Why ask me about low-level database algorithms when i'm interested in java and web positions?! We danced around one question for 10 minutes while i tried to answer it to his satisfaction. It should have been obvious to him i'm knowledgeable enough about databases and database programming to just move on to the core interview.
- ·[▪_▪]·
Ray, it's not a math problem -- it's a problem solving problem.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, there are different kinds of problem solving as well. To take mathematicians as an example, von Neumann was said to be very quick, whereas Hilbert was rather slow. So Hilbert might not have done well in an interview.
- Ruchira S. Datta
The classic variations I've heard are "How many piano tuners are there in Chicago?" and "How many hamburgers does McDonalds sell each day?"
- Ken Sheppardson
Wow... how would you answer either of those questions?
- SAM
One of the people I interviewed with didn't speak very good English, and I spent 3/4 of the interview arguing with her how I thought Friend Connect could improve. I was then given 5 minutes at the end of the interview to try and answer her technical question which was about binary trees, something I hadn't studied or played with since college. 5 minutes wasn't enough to recall. The questions I was asked were math problems (and I graduated with a 3.95 GPA in college, A in stats and Algebra).
- Jesse Stay
I could never survive an interview process like that. So I won't even try.
- Laura Norvig
Jesse, sorry to hear that. I would usually ask one 45-minute interview question or two 20-minute ones. I was only asked 45-minute ones. And no non-technical questions till the end.
- Ruchira S. Datta
These are almost the same questions I was asked (which I could answer easily now): http://courses.csail.mit.edu/iap... - amazing that Google hires MIT grads, considering MIT has an entire course around "hacking the Google interview".
- Jesse Stay
SAM: You'd just dive in with an estimate of *something* and walk your way through it. E.g. How many people do you know who own pianos? What % of the population do you think owns pianos? How often do they get their pianos tuned? How long does it take to tune a piano? How many people live in Chicago? It doesn't matter so much whether your numbers are right, it's the fact you know how to combine all the component estimates into an overall estimate.
- Ken Sheppardson
Not being able to do the math is fine, thinking that 1/4 of ads are clicked on is not. It's the approach and rough estimates that matter.
- Paul Buchheit
Yeah, the two important pieces of info the interviewer got in this situation are from (1) the initial random guess vs walking through some estimating process and (2) the lack of understanding of click through rates
- Ken Sheppardson
Those problem solving skills are useful when you have to model real-world systems. How many concurrent users to you estimate will we have at peak load? How many expensive vs. cheap queries are they going to perform? It's basically the same process - figure out reasonable estimates for each of the factors, do some basic stats and math and get a ballpark of how many servers you'll need vs. whether your problem is even viable.
- Matt Mastracci
Ruchira my technical questions were all at the end (except for 45 minutes on arguing with someone I could barely understand how Friend Connect could improve). I got the non-technical, easy. Going back and studying I would have gotten the technical too, which is silly considering how fast I was able to find the answers (and understand them). I think that's why non-technical should be...
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- Jesse Stay
When I interview, I look for clear, informed thinking. I'm sure that's what Google looks for, too. It's the odd personal interaction that turns an interview into something hasty and pressured. I'm fine giving a person a question, and time to mind-map or outline -- tho I do prefer someone who can do the thinking right there in the moment. Also, it's best to warm a person up to the type...
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- Christopher Galtenberg
Jesse, the technical question is supposed to be about problem-solving. You see how someone solves problems by watching them do it. It's not about looking things up.
- Ruchira S. Datta
Ruchira, 5 minutes to show the thought process in figuring out how to tell how many levels are in a binary tree isn't enough to determine if someone can problem solve.
- Jesse Stay
Call me soft, but I don't think she should have been bounced for a bad guess on ad CTR under interview stress. She worked through the appropriate steps and setup the right equation, just one of her assumptions was garbage. If she wasn't under pressure, and was asked to prepare a spreadsheet modeling out ad revenues, would she have really picked 1/4? or would she had thought about it...
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- Ray Cromwell
Jesse, agreed. That's why I like the longer interview questions. E.g., I would often find that someone was good at writing code but bad at complexity, or could think of an algorithm but not program.
- Ruchira S. Datta
RE "ridiculous questions", one of the things I try to do when interviewing somebody is ask a question to which the correct answer is "I don't know." That's one reason I might drill down on some sort of low level technical issue outside the candidates field of expertise. If you don't know, say so. Don't sit there and try to pretend you do. Be willing to admit there's something you have to learn. For extra credit, explain how you'd find the answer.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, there's major game theory going on. Does the interviewee think the interviewer wants a best effort attempt or rather an admission of insufficient data/experience.
- Micah Wittman
Another one I realized afterwords he was talking about linked lists, but he never mentioned linked lists. He had just asked how many edges it would take (asking for the exact formula, mind you - it's been 10 years since stats!) before a cycle could be made (or something like that). If he had just mentioned he was talking about linked lists I could have given him an answer much faster.
- Jesse Stay
Micah: Yup. And I want to see how much somebody will thrash before they ask what it is I actually want to know.
- Ken Sheppardson
you got to thin the herd.
- Aron Michalski
The right answer may be both. A good communicator, person who knows how to 'read' the other will put it out all out on the table. Hopefully without being too wordy :)
- Micah Wittman
The interviewer is comparing multiple interviewees. Google gets so many qualified applicants that it's very likely that even though she was OK, compared to others applying for the same job, she didn't do as well.
- Piaw Na
The interview process is designed to have few false positives, but in the classic tradeoff it can therefore have many false negatives. Although Jesse, in your case it sounds like it was just executed badly.
- Ruchira S. Datta
The funny thing is the best answer wasn't always the answer they were looking for. For some reason interviewers never want to see the hash table answer, which is almost always the answer in the real world. (yet they never ask you why a hash table may not always be the best answer)
- Jesse Stay
I always want the hash table answer Jesse. People who use red-black trees or whatever often haven't written real software :)
- Paul Buchheit
Paul I like your style :-) So much time is saved that way.
- Jesse Stay
@Paul: Agreed. I also find a surprising number of people who think they're brilliant for inventing tries, when a hash table would solve the problem faster, and with less code.
- Piaw Na
Not only that but in a search world that can make or break your search speed. We dealt with that in HIPAA transaction matching at UnitedHealth Group while I was there. The hashed digest made matching records so much faster.
- Jesse Stay
I cringe when I find out the developer interviewing me just graduated from college 3 years ago.
- Jesse Stay
I have never been asked for these estimation questions during my interviews but engineering positions need them too. Good estimators are good engineers.
- Burcu Dogan
@Jesse, why does that bother you? I was interviewed at Google by 6 folks, 5 of which were way younger than I was --- one of them so young that I remember him from when I was his TA in grad school. It didn't matter --- the questions weren't particularly hard, and I had fun. I didn't think Google's interview was any tougher than Yahoo's, Microsoft's or any other tech company known for engineering excellence.
- Piaw Na
My quickie solution to the Egg Drop problem is exponential doubling sequence + 2x linear search = 25 drops, best solution is 14. Doh! BTW, I've heard this problem stated before as a Cats with 9 lives (can survive 9 drops).
- Ray Cromwell
Piaw because a recent college grad is only going to ask you what they learned in college
- Jesse Stay
Try to solve my interview puzzle question: http://cromwellian.blogspot.com/2006...
- Ray Cromwell
Ray, that's a cool problem.
- Matt Mastracci
@Jesse So the 3 years in the "real world" mean nothing?
- EricaJoy
@Matt, I specifically constructed it so that it would be impossible for people to search for a pre-existing solution.
- Ray Cromwell
@Jesse: I'd been working in Silicon Valley for 10 years when I interviewed there. I did not feel that my experience disadvantaged me.
- Piaw Na
I just take more of a "get it done" attitude when I write code. I'd rather focus on getting the problem fixed in the fastest manner possible rather than spend all this time on theory. I guess it all depends on the problem at hand as to whether that's the right choice, but a recent college grad is less likely to understand that than someone who's been in the field for awhile. I like the...
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- Jesse Stay
BTW, if you're a startup that wants to take on Google that's the way to beat Google. It's why Twitter has grown so fast.
- Jesse Stay
True, if you look at many of the successful Web 2.0 startups, a lot of them didn't solve interesting computer science problems, but executed well in other ways. Implementation speed becomes a priority, as they can always go back and fix stuff later or rewrite, once they reach a certain level. Twitter ran "ok" enough on a Ruby mishmash until they broke down, but they didn't really lose their users because of it.
- Ray Cromwell
Glen, unless the speed isn't as important as getting the product out the door fast.
- Jesse Stay
All of those formulas need a "T" element (time to write the code), along with an "M" (maintainability) element
- Jesse Stay
I think the best way to get a job at Google is to build a business and get bought by them :-)
- Jesse Stay
Its good to be retired... ;) just sayin
- WarLord
@Glen: Are you seriously asserting that insertion into a tree (of any sort) is O( 1 / (n log n))?
- Piaw Na
@Jesse: It does no good to acquire a company whose software wouldn't scale (or whose people can't make them scale) when Google turns the firehose of traffic at them. Some of the due diligence done before a company is acquired (by Google or anyone) is to make sure that everything's technically up to snuff, or the people being acquired are smart enough to get them up to snuff.
- Piaw Na
I don't see anything "nightmarish" about her interviews at all...In fact it seems pretty amazing to me she couldn't figure out the "math" problem in the 2nd interview.
- Bindu Reddy
Well just for grins, here are a myriad of "problem solvers" trying to figure out how many golf balls you can fit on a bus: http://www.acetheinterview.com/questio... My solution to this is tell me how long it will take you to hang my wet clothes on the line without slipping on the downward slope of a ravine on 5 acres of wood...
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- Melanie Reed
If the question was really about problem solving then why would you stop at 1/4? That's just a parameter.
- Todd Hoff
You would stop at 1/4 because you've already interviewed 20 other folks, and some of them gave you a much better answer there. You would then go back to hire one of them, or keep interviewing more people because nobody was good enough so far.
- Piaw Na
wow, very insightful but clearly she is not geeky enough for the job!
- Loc
Todd: The interview didn't end when she said 1/4, they just "moved on". The point wasn't to get a specific dollar amount, it was to see her process.
- Ken Sheppardson
It's true that 1/4 is just a parameter, but choosing something out by so much shows a pretty significant lack of knowledge in an area that has _some_ relevance to Google. I'd suspect there would have been candidates who'd been able to have sensible discussions about the likely CTR in Gmail based on known CTRs on other websites and the factors which influence it. Surely that's relevant?
- Nick Lothian
Also, clicking on 1/4 of ads, with 4 ads per email means that people were clicking on an ad every time they read an email. That's pretty clearly wrong.
- Nick Lothian
Yeah, the 1/4 answer shows that the candidate did not apply her own personal experience to the problem solution. That's a negative mark.
- Gary Burd
Nick, then don't say it's about the process, because clearly it's not. The process was correct. If you care about the numbers then ask about the numbers. Ken, "you lost me" is not moving on.
- Todd Hoff
“Kind of.” Oliver sounded confused. “You lost me at the ‘only clicking on ¼ of the ads’ comment. Let’s move on.”
- Ken Sheppardson
How you came up with your estimates is part of the process. Also, the ability to do basic match (1/4 * 4 = 1) is part of the process. "Does that sound high or low to you" is part of the process.
- Nick Lothian
I wish I had learned how to reason probabilistically much earlier than I did. I never even heard about Bayes theorem until after grad/professional school.
- Victor Ganata
"@Matt, I specifically constructed it so that it would be impossible for people to search for a pre-existing solution" Ray, what's the last piece of useful technology you've worked on?
- Bill de hÓra
@Nick "It's true that 1/4 is just a parameter" - well is it or isn't it? is the model wrong or not? "but choosing something out by so much shows a pretty significant lack of knowledge in an area that has _some_ relevance to Google" - You mean like a Web based email client, or an ad serving system?
- Bill de hÓra
"How many golf balls can fit in a school bus?" - Don't care, bought a dump truck instead. These questions are to interviews as rail shooters are to video games.
- Bill de hÓra
@Plaw "It does no good to acquire a company whose software wouldn't scale" - explain Jaiku and while you're at it, explain Chubby.
- Bill de hÓra
you can click on the ads in gmail? learn something every day.
- SuezanneC Baskerville
Paul Buchheit's assumption of a 25 percent clickthrough rate on a Gmail ad is way to high. Most advertisers report an average of 3 clickthroughs per 1000 impressions. That about one one-hundredth of the rate that Paul has entertained. I suggest that he experiment with Google or Facebook advertising before flaunting assumptions that are two orders of magnitude beyond the norm.
- Rich Reader
@Rich Reader that's right you tell Paul not to flaunt his assumptions about Gmail. But maybe read his post and comments first. Oh, and maybe his bio.
- Steve Crossan
@Bill, Google Web Toolkit. Prior to that, http://timefire.com/showcase.
- Ray Cromwell
@Rich Reader: I can't quite discern whether your comment is satirical. Paul wasn't making that assumption, and I'm fairly confident he knows a bit about Gmail, Google advertising, and Facebook. :)
- Simon
http://friendfeed.com/search... Paul I am having deflamatory comments about me with my first and last name used, could you please warn this user or something, it is effecting my business and is illegal, I have told brent TWICE, but he removed my account and placed it on private now which was quite rude to be honest, now I will see a lawyer about deflamation since it effects my views as a writer if she is not removed or given a warning
- dawngordon
Just saw an interesting article on Gawker about Google hiring http://gawker.com/5392947... and then another where Peter says they misconstrued his statements: http://www.mv-voice.com/square...
- Laura Norvig
Always Check The Small Print…or not. (If you are involved in a startup. This is an absolute must read.) - http://thenextweb.com/2009...
Jason Kintzler, Deano @ Byron New Media, Ryan - @magicofpi and 12 other people liked this
bumping coz this needs to be read. It's not my story btw.
- Zee.
Interesting. Words matter.
- Christopher Galtenberg
bumping again = because it's just a fantastic story.
- Zee.
Thanks.
- Samuel L. Jackson
Op-Ed Columnist - Life After the End of History - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
"[Our national political] paranoias suggest a civilization that’s afraid to reckon with its own apparent permanence. The end of history has its share of discontents — anomie, corruption, “The Real Housewives of New Jersey.” And it may be that the only thing more frightening than the possibility of annihilation is the possibility that our society could coast on forever as it is — like a Rome without an Attila to sack its palaces, or a Nineveh without Yahweh to pass judgment on its crimes."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
"Humankind fears judgment, of course. But we depend on it as well. The possibility of dissolution lends a moral shape to history: we want our empires to fall as well as rise, and we expect decadence to be rewarded with destruction. Not that we want to experience this destruction ourselves. But we want it to be at least a possibility — as a spur to virtue, and as a punishment for sin. "
- Christopher Galtenberg
"This was how the Soviet threat often played on the home front. Remove the stain of segregation, liberals argued in the 50s, or the Communists will win the world. Repent of your hedonism and pacifism, neoconservatives urged Americans in the 70s, or the West will go the way of Finland. Neither group wanted the United States to lose the cold war. But they wanted to inhabit a world where America could lose, and pass into history, if we failed to live up to our ideals."
- Christopher Galtenberg
"This could be why we don’t celebrate the anniversary of 1989 quite as intensely as we should. Maybe we miss living with the possibility of real defeat. Maybe we sense, as we hunt for the next great existential threat, that even the end of history needs to have an end."
- Christopher Galtenberg
Fox News: Enemy Of Conservatism - The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_dai...
kris. nuttycombe liked this
"Hannity is a pathological level of propagandist, because his entire reality, his entire mindset is programmed for ideology and partisanship. There is no world for him but politics; and no perspective within politics except conflict and warfare. He greets views that do not comport with the opportunistic ideology of the moment as threats to be extinguished, not ideas to be engaged. Whatever else this toxic, shallow and brutal perspective is, it is not now and never will be conservative - unless that word has now been so corrupted it has no meaning at all."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
"At the core of real conservatism is a distinction between theory and practice, a deep resistance to ideology, a respect for free inquiry and the philosophic spirit, a respect for social stability and coherence, a moderation in governance and a deliberation in action."
- Christopher Galtenberg
"Conservatism will not recover as a coherent governing philosophy until it takes this monstrous propaganda on. Conservatism will not somehow emerge through the wreckage of this current moment, until it finds the courage to note that what it has become is not some variant on its tradition rightly understood, but its conscious, active, pernicious nemesis."
- Christopher Galtenberg
Hi Scoble and Defrag! #defragcon
Ahsan Ali aka. Slick, Ed Millard, ffcode and Jesse Stay liked this
Robert is demonstrating FriendFeed's stream on stage.
- Louis Gray
Still the king of streams :)
- Christopher Galtenberg
Hi Scoble!
- Jesse Stay
FriendFeed is alive and well
- George Dearing
Louis or Robert needs to say something controversial, though, to get us started. Any thoughts on that rumor that Twitter 2 is going to totally smoke Facebook 2?
- Christopher Galtenberg
Twitter Relatime Defrag is up now. Robert mostly showed the busy stream. Talk is mostly on lists.
- Louis Gray
interesting. I wonder what his 'best of the day' was....
- WorldofHiglet
Getting traffic on FriendFeed is easy - just declare it's dead
- Jesse Stay
fyi 'FF is dead' has jumped the shark
- Christopher Galtenberg
how often you all see posts with this much (7-8) comments? miss old friendfeed, here even the real time is done to death, discussions earlier were real time ( yeah the likes and commenting system is the best here) but now....:(
- ffcode
yeah it is dead to me but i just can't leave it :)
- ffcode
I showed it off to make a point that the world is a river of information now.
- Robert Scoble
Comcast TV Everywhere launch details: December, free for existing subs, really goes anywhere - http://www.engadget.com/2009...
"It will be available at no additional cost to existing subscribers and allow the authorization of up to 3 devices per household. Log in once from home to Comcast.net or Fancast.com, download the Move Networks powered player to authorize your PC and proceed to stream from the very healthy library of VOD, whether at home or anywhere else."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
Louis Gray branches out into his own start-up – Paladin Advisors « I’m Not Actually a Geek - http://bhc3.wordpress.com/2009...
Susan Beebe, Thierry R. Andriamirado, Meryn Stol and 10 other people liked this
Congratulations, Louis! Will definitely contact you in the near future about our site.
- Christopher Galtenberg
from iPhone
Congratulations. There is certainly a huge need for Social Media guidance. I need to know more so I can recommend your company regularly. Few really understand how to prioritize their time for maximum results while still keeping track of the constantly shifting sands.
- Internet Strategist
U.S. Deports Lou Dobbs | The Onion - America's Finest News Source - http://www.theonion.com/content...
|
"Acting on anonymous tips from within the Hispanic-American community, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials on Wednesday deported Luis Miguel Salvador Aguila Dominguez, who for the last 48 years had been living illegally in the United States under the name Lou Dobbs."
- Christopher Galtenberg
from Bookmarklet
"interesting parallel between the decline of rock music quality and, of all things, the decline in US oil discovery and production" - http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008...
John, Marco Fabbri, Kol Tregaskes and 30 other people liked this
So if we can get Bill and Ted together the world will be all right?
- CW™
There has to be some sort of birthday paradox around graphs. Given a large enough library of graphs, you will find a strong correlation between two.
- Joe Beda ()
Mean global temperature correlates quite well with the decline in the pirate population, after all. Actually, we can test causality now -- will the rise of Somali and Asian pirates bring the temperature back down? Or are the required to wear 17th century pirate regalia?
- Joel Webber
This also confirms my conjecture that there have been no new good artists since 1975.
- Gabe
This is why we must start drilling in Alaska.
- τorƍue
Will drilling in Alaska improve rock music?
- Gary Burd
Speaking of birthdays, I think a histogram of the birthdays of music critics would probably look a whole lot like the red graph... shifted 13-18 years or so.
- Ken Sheppardson
'Songs in "Rolling Stone 500 Greatest Songs of all Time,"' huh? That's some ground truth for ya.
- j1m
I'd like to see the graph for Pitchfork, but the lists are segmented by decade.
- Gary Burd
@Ken - "predicting oil production by music critic's birthdays". Who'd have thought we could solve the whole running-out-of-oil thing by getting Rolling Stone to hire 16 year olds!!!
- Nick Lothian
Ken: I think you might find more correllation with a histogram of drug use than age of critics.
- Gabe
Plenty of good rock out there: http://www.lala.com/#album... http://www.lala.com/#album... http://www.lala.com/#album... -- though can't argue that we're not in an age of decline
- Christopher Galtenberg
The new recommendations stuff in @googlereader that we launched about a month ago is crazy dangerous.... Where did that hour just go?!
Jeff, Adriano, metalerik and 2 other people liked this
Just chalk that up to 20% time.
- Louis Gray
No kidding - it's a dream feature JB
- Christopher Galtenberg
great job on "Recommended sources" -- discovered some fantastic feeds. Thanks!
- Adriano
Google hopes to remake programming with Go - http://news.cnet.com/8301-10...
Thomas Amberg, Barry Mitchelson, Marwan Osman and 103 other people liked this
This could be very good! "Google software luminaries such as Unix co-creator Ken Thompson believe that they can help boost both computing power and programmers' abilities with an experimental programming language project called Go. And on Tuesday, they're taking the veil of secrecy off Go, releasing what they've built so far and inviting others to join the newly open-source project."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
What do you think, Paul? I know it's early, but Python latched on at Google... Think this is a response? And just on a lark, do you think Go may be headed for the browser at some point (to replace javascript)? Many of us have wondered if Chrome will take a stab at reinventing/reworking the web stack. Go feels more like a back-end tool, but wondering what came to your mind when you saw this...
- Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, Python is nice, but we need a new system language, something high-performance to replace C/C++. This may be it.
- Paul Buchheit
Yeah, I was remembering your thoughts from here, Paul: http://friendfeed.com/paul.... Wonder how the ooc folks feel today...
- Christopher Galtenberg
My first reaction was oh yay, another C like language with brackets to make it acceptable. Having Rob Pike and Thompson on the team is impressive but makes me think of a plan9 resurrection. Using CSPs though is pretty cool and it looks like it supports mobile tasks.
- Todd Hoff
"Specifically, Go uses a technology dating back to the 1960s called CSP, or communicating sequential processes, that handles interactions among a set of cooperating programs, Pike said. The technology made an appearance in programming languages such as Occom and Erlang, but it generally hasn't been applied in systems programming."
- Paul Buchheit
If Google uses this for internal projects, that will give it a big advantage over something like plan9 in terms of being practical (not to mention the fact that it's free software, which plan9 was not, and a programming language, not an OS).
- Paul Buchheit
I am very excited about this, it's not genius or rocket science but it maybe the language to put alongisde C/C++ for real. I thought it was going to be D, maybe this is it
- Lawrence Oluyede
D seems too fragmented to be usable. All my hopes are on Go now :)
- Paul Buchheit
And note that the language is designed to be IDE independent.
- Piaw Na
Plan9 was a set of composable tools. In this case Google is providing the OS and the tools.
- Todd Hoff
Go is NOT an OS!
- Piaw Na
Where's the link to it?
- Gabe
Please ; at the end of lines... (I hate languages without ; for some psychological reasons)
- Ozgur Demir
I am no fan of language features designed to ease parsing but i suppose that's important for a system language? But it's hardly a user (i.e. programmer)-centric design. I think they should have drawn more from Scala (for concurrency model) and Io (for a beautiful syntax) instead of the messy, old languages they chose. Luckily, it's not designed for my needs so i'll never have to worry about it.
- ·[▪_▪]·
@ozgurdemir I agree. Either require them or don't. Don't make them optional in some cases. It confuses what programmers generally expect of a programming language: consistency.
- ·[▪_▪]·
Just checked and hated it. Sorry guys, it's not about the rest of the language.. it's just the ;'s.
- Ozgur Demir
while checking it, I noticed how much I love C / Java syntax and how lame to trying to change it just for to make a new product different.
- Ozgur Demir
@Paul you should know better than to confuse a language with its implementation! The people working on this all hail from the C/Java lineage and I don't know...may be fast but generally C is a hassle and Java is too dumbed-down. Trying to fix the mistakes they made in the past. Wonderful...
- Rudolf Olah
For god's sake, who cares what the syntax looks like? What matters is whether it solves useful problems or not. It's designed to clean up a lot of the problems stemming from the legacy of C[++], compile fast, execute fast, be appropriate for systems programming, and have good primitives for concurrency. Those are good goals in my book, and they fill a much-needed niche.
- Joel Webber
I do care.
- Ozgur Demir
I thought it was kinda weird the way the video highlighted how fast it compiles. Compilation speed is great, and the vid was impressive, but I've never seen a language launch where that was highlighted so much. "Look, it compiles fast!!!!!! Oh, BTW, we are trying to solve concurrency".
- Nick Lothian
@Ozgur: Sure, but as long as the syntax isn't broken in some way, or ambiguous (VB6 comes to mind), it's surely much less important than what the language is capable of (compile speed, execution speed, what can be expressed, etc). Syntax seems like a distant third- or fourth-most important aspect to me.
- Joel Webber
@Nick: That kind of struck me as well when they first started talking about it. But when you consider that your main alternative is C++, and that compile times can get absolutely brutal (try compileing WebKit sometime -- it takes hours), it makes a bit more sense.
- Joel Webber
@Joel. yea, I can't say you're wrong and I am right.. these are all preferences.. for me, syntax is an important aspect in terms of code readability that's why I care since it becomes a real pain in the ass on a midsize or bigger project.
- Ozgur Demir
This thread is degenerating into rubbish. You know who you are - please stop.
- Christopher Galtenberg
from iPhone
@Joel yeah, I guess. But compiling something like that should take hours! Back when men were men and compiling a kernel on my 386 was a major undertaking success was so much more satisfying! Who are these young'uns Thompson & Pike and what do they know anyway!
- Nick Lothian
Yeah, really! Real programmers had to swap disks multiple times to run a Pascal compiler on Hello World for the C64 :)
- Joel Webber
Yeah, compilation speed doesn't mean too much. Would be nicer if they focused on the *thinking* part with regards to concurrency.
- Rudolf Olah
Compilation speeds mean a lot when you're dealing with the google programming model. This is a company that invented code search for internal use. (See as an example: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7613693...)
- Piaw Na
Luckily it isn't named "goo".
- Peng-Toh
@Piaw - nice example. I only skipped through it, but I can't see why something like that makes compilation speed critical. It seems similar in concept to static analysis - more speed is good, but the lack of speed doesn't break the model.
- Nick Lothian
@nlothian: static analysis and compilation both include parsing. efficient parsing of C++ is rather hard to achieve, due to messy nature of multiply included files and macro substitutions. if code analysis takes hours (ok, half-hours), it ceases to be useful.
- 9000
Lack of speed totally breaks the model. When you can get your analysis and search tools to respond in sub 500ms, the model for coding completely changes. You no longer remember where files are --- you just search for them and expect the search tool to remember for you. This enables massive code sharing, and allows small teams to be extremely effective, since they can now leverage other teams' work.
- Piaw Na
Must be Google..
- ★ Soner Gönül
Why compile time matters: http://xkcd.com/303/
- Robert Felty
Use an IDE for iterative development of the components you are working on, make modules independent through interfaces, do a nightly build so the bulk of build products like libraries etc are available, then these compile issues go away. Justifying based on compile times is so 1990s.
- Todd Hoff
Ah, but how exactly does your IDE allow you to do iterative development quickly? You have to be able to compile individual modules (whatever form they take) quickly enough to make this feasible. If you take C[++] as the de facto systems language, it fails badly on this front, because the only way to share interfaces among modules is via the preprocessor, and precompiled headers only get...
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- Joel Webber
Poor Frank McCabe and his ten year old "go!" language: http://www.reddit.com/r...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
C++ allows for abstract base classes. No implementation. Compose systems this way and you minimize recompilation. And I'm assuming the initial subsystems are developed in a mocked unit tested environment and then within a very narrow scope, so interface changes are minimized until the system test phase is reached. The compilation argument would make sense if they were talking about a...
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- Todd Hoff
Sure, but you still have to define the abstract base class (interface) in a header file somewhere, and individual .cc files end up depending upon a large number of these in practice, so that any change to one of them tends to force you to recompile a lot of object files. As you say, there are some ways of reducing this effect, but in practice large C++ systems end up taking forever and a day to compile (try compiling WebKit; a lot of Google code has this problem as well).
- Joel Webber
C++ templates are also implemented badly, which makes compilation slow.
- Piaw Na
Only if you don't compose your system well Joel. I've worked very comfortably on systems that took 12 hours to compile across a cluster of 32 build machines. I'm not saying I don't want a language where you don't have to go through all these hoops, but to say it's inevitable in C++ is not so, you just have to beat make into submission and not create a big ball of mud, which is good practice anyway.
- Todd Hoff
@Todd: Fair enough -- I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, and I have also worked on fairly large C++ code bases (mostly games) without everything going to hell in a handbasket. But you have to admit that it would be nice if you didn't have to wait many hours (or use a Google-sized build cluster) for compiling your code :)
- Joel Webber
I've worked "comfortably" on projects where the full rebuild time was a few hours on my local machine, but I can't say that I was ever working optimally. Even in the instant-on environment I'm working in now, there are occasionally changes that I have to wait a full build/deploy cycle to test and it almost always takes me 2-5x as long to solve problems in that case. You can multitask while you wait, but it's just not the same (IMHO, of course).
- Matt Mastracci
I think 12 hours to compile across 32 build machines is unacceptable. I want instant compilation. You know, the kind that Turbo Pascal used to have.
- Piaw Na
I think that there's a dramatic improvement in developer productivity when the compile-link-run cycle time goes from a minute to a second.
- Gary Burd
Piaw before you say what is or is not unacceptable you might want to take the trouble to know what problem is being solved. Turbo Pascal to a real deployed product like a unicycle is to the 5th fleet.
- Todd Hoff
But any, good, modern IDE compiles incrementally and continuously so there's no noticeable compilation step. Compilation shouldn't be a _highlight_ of a new language. It's nice and the ease of building developer tools is a benefit to uptake but, in the end, the language has to be something developers _want_ to read and write since we have to look at it so much. Syntax matters. It's why so much sugar is added to languages.
- ·[▪_▪]·
As stated before, modern IDEs don't scale to google-sized code bases. Go is not designed for your tiny projects that fit in main memory. It's designed for large scale development projects.
- Piaw Na
@piaw You seem to assume that Google doesn't organize it's code. Any good project, regardless of size, especially for large projects, should be modularized. If Google has to load every piece of code into the IDE, they have more serious problems than Go will resolve. Trust me, I work on a project with tens of millions of lines of Java code and i've been responsible for analysis and...
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- ·[▪_▪]·
Well, Piaw actually did write a fair amount of the code at Google, so I'd give him a little more credit :) I know plenty of people at Google who *do* use Eclipse/IntelliJ on Google's code base (myself included), but you do have to break it into manageable chunks to make it work. That's sometimes easier said than done, to be fair.
- Joel Webber
When I worked for a large company in the internet advertising business, I found that dependency creep was a constant problem. I spent more time than I would have liked trying to get fast compilation time in Eclipse/IntelliJ. I welcome a tool that helps with this problem.
- Gary Burd
"I have already used the name for *MY* programming language" http://code.google.com/p...
- Samuel L. Jackson
I think that time spent pruning and organizing your code and library is best instead spent working on better tools that make your development environment super fast and capable of scaling. That's the way Go was designed.
- Piaw Na
If you want fast turnaround, eliminate compiles all together. There's no reason why a language can't support a double or triple hybrid model. Look at a language like Factor, image based like Smalltalk, you write a function, and can patch it into the live running app instantaneously, where it will run interpreted in combination with compiled code, until the runtime gets around to...
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- Ray Cromwell
I noticed that Go has an interpreter work-in-progress living in its source. The start of an instant-run mode?
- Matt Mastracci
Smalltalk had a massive sharing problem --- you couldn't ever replicate what was in your Smalltalk image on someone else's machine. Eliminating compiles would be nice, but again, if you're solving problems at a massive scale, interpretation would be an order of magnitude loss in execution speed that you can't afford. That said, a Go interpreter would not be out of the question, or even hard to build.
- Piaw Na
@Piaw - was just reading "Coders at Work" this week and Ingalls (http://www.codersatwork.com/dan-ing...) was saying the exact opposite. He said he pauses his Mac machine and sends his Smalltalk system state over to a Windows developer and they start right up, debug, and fix.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
The point is not to have the production version run in interpretation, the point is to increase developer productivity by allowing a fast edit-run cycle, production builds can take as long as necessary. When you're in development mode, you often don't need full execution speed, you are checking for correctness. Take GWT for example. You can make changes to Java source, hit reload, and...
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- Ray Cromwell
What does production mean? An experiment that processes a large number of records so you can decide how to proceed with your line of research is hardly production, but it nevertheless has to execute fast over large amounts of data. You might think that it doesn't matter how quickly that runs, but the difference between 10 minutes and 100 minutes is huge in terms of productivity.
- Piaw Na
Yes, if you copied the entire image over, you could replicate a smalltalk VM. The problem is, then you have to live with the other guy's image and customizations. Smalltalk is great, but it really was designed as a single-user environment.
- Piaw Na
It depends how often you are running experiments over huge datasets like that. In the case where I needed some experimental data to proceed, yes, if after every edit, you had such an experiment, then maybe programming in a neutered language would be worth it, but I'd say that for the majority of developers, this is not the case, so being able to run unoptimized builds/interpretation...
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- Ray Cromwell
No, it is not for everyone. It's very much for large scale datasets that are encountered somewhat frequently on the WWW.
- Piaw Na
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