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Gerardo Curiel › Likes
Fwd: @benno37 XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it (via http://friendfeed.com/andrep...)
Vadim Spivak, Gerardo Curiel, Bret Taylor and Gary Burd liked this
EPIC
- Gerardo Curiel
All the tech blogs are hypocrites when they are up in arms about Amazon. Facebook and Flickr have been deleting stuff for years like that.
Daniel Rowley, Nicholas James, Joe Dawson and 29 other people liked this
Among others. Twitter has deleted people too.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
But paid books are a bit different than free stuff on Facebook/Flickr, no?
- Abhimanyu Chirimar
Those are different scenarios, though none are good for users. One is a content license, the others are service agreements. Though the click-wrap in all cases reads like you have few rights.
- LogEx
Not in my book
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Not sure the sentiment makes sense... Did the tech blogs also criticize FB/Flickr for the same type of practices?
- Jolie O'Dell
My stuff is my stuff.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Jolie: when have you seen a tech blog take a stand on the issue and get to the top of techmeme?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I'll never buy a Kindle. I'm a student. Could you imagine Amazon doing this to a $200+ textbook?
- nick
But the point is... in Amazon's case, it is NOT yours. In the other cases, it is yours, but the hosting is at their whim.
- LogEx
Nick: my photos cost a lot more than $200 to make but Flickr deletes accounts all the time.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Robert: I upload stuff to Flickr too, but I usually have my own copy on my computer that Flickr can't touch.
- nick
But Flickr in that case only removes your ability to access their copy of your photos - you still have full control of the original and other copies. Amazon removes all access you had to content you licensed.
- LogEx
Oh Robert, I don't even read that drivel anymore. ;) But perhaps it's getting undue attention for other reasons... No one pays - or pays MUCH - for FB/Flickr accounts/content.
- Jolie O'Dell
UH...Amazon is deleting products consumers have purchased. Facebook and Flickr have been deleting unpurchased, free items. If you think that makes people hypocritical then I suggest you consult a dictionary. And if you think deleting paid vs. free is identical then I suggest you pull your head out of your proverbial ass. ;-)
- Scott Jarkoff
I think the difference is paying for a specific piece of content and losing it without warning. It's very weird, though, how Amazon's been making such bad PR moves this year. Are they sharing an agency with Microsoft up there?
- Omar Gallaga
Scott starts with an "UH" and ends with "ass." I think he wins Jerkoff Commenter of the Internet for July 17th.
- Omar Gallaga
Robert: Wouldn't it have been more reasonable for Amazon to just simply stop selling the titles in question to new customers?
- nick
There's a huge difference between a free service and a purchased good. Besides, why on earth would you upload your only copy of something to facebook or flickr? IF flickr deletes your photos, you still have them. In the Amazon case, you don't have the book anymore.
- Ryan Jones
analogy: I buy a book and take it home; Books Inc finds out they didn't have the right to sell it to me, so they break down my front door, enter my house, and retrieve the book.
- Stuart Liroff
Scott: my photos cost a lot more than any book on Amazon.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Neither Flickr nor facebook deletes your files from your hardware. You still have the originals. Even if they delete your account, you still have the originals. And any image you have downloaded in the past, if they receive a DMCA notice and delete it off their site, they don't access the hardware of everyone that downloaded it, deleting files. THAT is the difference.
- April Russo (app103)
Cost isn't the issue. It's amazon providing you a book, vs you providing flickr with photos.
- Ryan Jones
1) This isn't a "tech" question - it's a business question; 2) there is a difference between accepting payment for content then deleting it, and deleting copies of content you upload to a site; 3) to address one question without addressing different questions isn't hypocrisy, except perhaps based upon your expectations of how others should perceive this issue.
- Kevin Boulas
Stuart: I am NOT saying Amazon is right. I think deleting anything of mine is bad and should be illegal.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
but legally, is the facebook account or flickr account really yours? Most likely not.
- Ryan Jones
@Robert: if your only copy of your photos resides on Flickr or Amazon then that is complete and utter failure on your part. You should be saving your _personal_ photos on a removable HDD, cloud storage or somewhere where you have complete control of your _personal_ data. Facebook and Flickr are *obviously* not those types of services.
- Scott Jarkoff
Ryan: legally your book isn't yours either.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
None of these scenarios have been fully tested in the courts. But these are the liabilities of the cloud and the rent/license models, as opposed to owning and hosting yourself and treating your local copies as masters.
- LogEx
Scott: you are so wrong it isn't funny.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
And as April mentioned, neither delete the data from _your_ hardware but off of _their_ servers. That is a *huge* difference - remote deletion is evil, pure and simple.
- Scott Jarkoff
@Robert: Hate to break your "I'm always right ego" but *YOU* are wrong. If you think I'm so wrong then kindly explain _why_ you believe I'm wrong.
- Scott Jarkoff
Scott: all of these deletions are evil.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Robert, you are right that they are all evil, but there are significant differences in kind if not degree.
- LogEx
Robert i seem to recall at least one blogger being up in arms about the deletion of his Facebook account ;-) so i'm not sure where the hypocrisy comes in. i think most people would agree that just randomly deleting *your stuff* is evil -- it's just MORE evil when you've *paid* for the stuff that got deleted.
- Karim
Does Amazon reserve the right to do this in their EULA? Do Flickr/Facebook?
- Kamath (नमः)
Tell me what other company deletes not only files you paid for and bought from them, but your own personal data too, from your hardware? Along with the books disappearing, there was at least one student that was reading one of the books in question as a summer reading assignment, that lost all his notes and annotations when the book disappeared.
- April Russo (app103)
i've purchased songs on iTunes that, for one distribution reason or another, later became unavailable for purchase in the U.S. iTunes Store. Apple was nice enough to not go on my hard drive and delete the songs when that happened.
- Karim
April: books are NOT yours. They belong to the copyright holder. You are granted a license to view them. Obviously now that right can be revoked at any time.
- Robert Scoble
Those notes and annotations were his, and he has every right in the world to expect those not to be deleted by some company.
- April Russo (app103)
Scott: my photos on Flickr don't just include my photos. They include the comments me and others have made. And any links that blogs have made to them. If you delete them you delete my work and that is work that CAN NOT BE BACKED UP.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: You are absolutely wrong yet again. *BOOKS* are yours, period. No license involved. *eBooks* (the type sold for the Kindle), on the other hand, are licensed with some draconian anti-piracy TOS and DRM. So in that case, true, you do not own them. This is the krux of the reason I refuse to buy a Kindle.
- Scott Jarkoff
April: deleting this stuff is wrong. Period. Whether on Amazon. Whether on Twitter. Whether on Flickr. Whether on Facebook. Not saying that Amazon is right. Just that these are all the same issue. The only reason we're up in arms about Amazon is we're used to having books on paper where our viewing rights can't be revoked.
- Robert Scoble
Paint it all the same brush if you want, but everyone here seems to see a distinction but you, Robert. Putting stuff in the cloud onto a service you don't own always carries a risk. Buying a product from a reputable company and then having it taken away without warning is a whole other deal. Why do you want to lump apples and orange? Are you anti-fruit-diversity?
- Omar Gallaga
Scott: wrong. Books are yours only because they are printed on paper. You are NOT allowed to photocopy them. Why not? They aren't yours. You are legally granted a right to view them, but the words in them are NOT yours.
- Robert Scoble
Omar: well, now, buying books on a DRM'd device carries a risk too.
- Robert Scoble
Ha ha... reminds me of an old post of mine: http://logicalextremes.blogspot.com/2007... (New High-Tech Book License)
- LogEx
Robert: You did not pay to leave comments on Facebook or Flickr. You did pay for that book on your Kindle which was just revoked by the license holder.
- Scott Jarkoff
And I seem to recall tech blogs being up in arms about Facebook and Flickr's various missteps in matters of privacy and account deletion. Don't you read your own press?
- Omar Gallaga
Scott: I paid with my time which is far more valuable than any $20 fee.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Heh, absolutely. That's why I don't have a Kindle. Doesn't Apple reserve the right to do this with apps? I thought I remembered them doing something like that before with an app that was pulled from the store, but I may be remembering it wrong.
- Omar Gallaga
Omar: yes, a few tech blogs try to raise this issue once in a while.
- Robert Scoble
I would like to see anyone revoke my right to possession of the hard cover edition of Animal Farm and 1984 that I paid for. I'd like to see them enter my home uninvited, unannounced, and without permission, and not only take my books, but take the hand crocheted bookmark I made that's marking my place. Are you telling me that the seller has the right to do that if a publisher cancels a deal with them or it is found that the publisher didn't actually have a right to sell the titles?
- April Russo (app103)
Robert: While they can not be photocopied, they can be borrowed by friends to read. eBooks have no such capabilities. I think even you know the distinction and realize there *IS* a difference.
- Scott Jarkoff
April: the only reason that book publishers haven't been able to do that in the past is because they can't get access to your house legally. Now...
- Robert Scoble
Robert: The non-hypocrite blogs? You should just go ahead and name names. Does it rhyme with "Garrington?"
- Omar Gallaga
Scott -- you can lend your Kindle to your friends.
- Omar Gallaga
The first-sale doctrine also allows me to transfer ownership of books and other content I own... not true of most licensed/rented works.
- LogEx
Scott: yes, this is why I haven't been pro DRM in the past, even when working at Microsoft. But now we know the dangers of a DRM'ed world. Welcome to the world where you can be erased. Where your books can be erased. Where your photos can be erased. Where your Tweets can be erased.
- Robert Scoble
there's DEGREES of wrongness, Robert. crimes and misdemeanors. losing a free tweet about the ham sandwich somebody ate is not on par with losing a masterpiece of English literature that you paid for.
- Karim
Karim: wrong. Last week the tweets I made cost Rackspace thousands of dollars to get. Thanks for making them sound cheap.
- Robert Scoble
Omar: True, but the difference being when you lend your Kindle you're essentially lending your entire bookshelf to someone, leaving you the inability to read a purchased eBook.
- Scott Jarkoff
Karim: I'm glad you think your Tweets have no value. Mine DEFINITELY DO.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, did you just put your Rackspace tweets on par with the literature of George Orwell?
- Karim
Karim - you don't believe Robert's tweets are masterpieces of English literature? The hell is wrong with you?
- Omar Gallaga
You still own the content you lend to service providers in most cases. that's why data portability is so important. Insist on your service providers giving you the ability to extract your content with the enhancements that have been made on the site ideally.
- LogEx
Karim: no, I didn't put them on par with George Orwell's work, but some of my Tweets have cost a lot of money to make. Glad to know you think that going to England is free and that my time is free. It is not. And to make my Tweets equivilent to ones about eating food makes you a jerk in my mind.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: back your data up. Flickr photos should be backed up *before* they're posted to Flickr, but certainly can be after using the right tools. Same with comments on Flickr. Facebook, with their utter dislike for RSS, makes that far more difficult. Point being - backup your data and do *not* *solely* rely on a service provider to protect your data. And backing up comments is entirely possible on Flickr using RSS feeds and other such tools.
- Scott Jarkoff
$1000's? It doesn't cost anything to load your twitter RSS feed into a desktop feed reader, leaving it running in your tray to archive all your tweets. It also doesn't cost you anything to import them here, either. If your words are that important to you, make backups. Then the most you will lose is a URL, which doesn't belong to you any way.
- April Russo (app103)
Scott: you go back up all your Flickr photos and move them to some other service with all the comments intact and usable. Go ahead. Try.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: If you would slow the number of times you tweet then maybe it wouldn't cost Rackspace thousands of dollars. ;-)
- Scott Jarkoff
April: glad you think the value in Twitter is just the Tweets. It is not. It's also the distribution and my friend network.
- Robert Scoble
Scott: no, if I Tweeted less the cost per Tweet would go up! :-)
- Robert Scoble
But surely you entered into using these services knowing that you are at their mercy.
- LogEx
Scott -- I hate to agree with Robert (shudder) but that's not realistic. Especially not with average users. You're putting the onus on regular users to jump hoops instead of the companies to make these tools readily available. Way to stick it to the little guy. On the other hand, I think buying a book to own and having people post comments on some photos you posted on Flickr carry with them two entirely different expectations of permanence.
- Omar Gallaga
Logical: and when I bought my Kindle I knew the same.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I already do backup my Flickr data - my uploads, my comments, my favorites and the comments on my posts.
- Scott Jarkoff
Omar: expectations are different, yes, but they shouldn't be and that's what's wrong in my view.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, i can't help what's in your mind :-) but i didn't say YOUR tweets were on par with ham sandwiches. i was trying to illustrate the fact that different things have different value. losing a dollar is not as bad as losing a million dollars. losing a million dollars is not as bad as losing your life. you can't just equate it all and saying losing anything is evil.
- Karim
+1 Karim
- Todd Hoff
Scott: congratulations. Flickr is also a social network. And it's also a distribution platform. I embed my Flickr photos on my blog and so do other people (my photos are all over Wikipedia for instance). Back THAT up. You can't.
- Robert Scoble
Omar: Completely agreed about the backing up. I'm just trying to get the point across to Robert that its _possible_ to do. Maybe that's a service someone needs to work on - backup all your social networking data to the cloud and then download it at will.
- Scott Jarkoff
Robert -- Ah.... but like usual, that's not what you said. That's what you expected us to psychically extract from your initial post (or after several hundred FriendFeed comments, whichever comes first). Glad we got here sooner rather than later.
- Omar Gallaga
Karim: losing my work matters more to me than losing an unauthorized copy of some other author's work.
- Robert Scoble
You are free at any time to go start your own. If permanency of hosting and full control is that important to you, do not rely on a 3rd party service that could just as easily be gone with your data tomorrow (remember magnolia? enetation? AOL Pictures? the other billion services that went >poof<?)
- April Russo (app103)
April: do the same with a book company then too.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: See, this is why you need to clarify your position before making such generalized statements like what you used to start this thread.
- Scott Jarkoff
Scott: that's why FriendFeed has comments. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Angrykeyboarder: Been there, done that, thanks. ;-)
- Scott Jarkoff
Scott: http://backupmypics.com/
- Omar Gallaga
Robert: If, as usual, your intent was to ignite conversation, congratulations - you've more than succeeded. But that still doesn't mean you're wrong.
- Scott Jarkoff
I don't buy DRM protected digital content. I don't trust it.
- April Russo (app103)
Omar: Nice! Now all they need to do is add in the other things Robert wants tracked and he'll have the holy grail of social networking backup solutions.
- Scott Jarkoff
Scott: everything I do is to get a conversation going. It's my prime directive.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Wakarimashita. However, you're still wrong in this case.
- Scott Jarkoff
Scott: and so are you.
- Robert Scoble
House wins. Everybody loses.
- Omar Gallaga
On that note, time to head out with the family to see Harry Potter. Hope everyone else enjoys the rest of the conversation. Cheers!
- Scott Jarkoff
Omar: +1.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, ok, so for YOU, losing your tweets is worse than losing the works of George Orwell. do you expect everyone else to feel the same way?
- Karim
Karim: yes, most people will feel that way. Their work is more valuable than a book they probably have a copy of anyway on their shelves.
- Robert Scoble
i'm wondering why you feel that way when people pay nothing for tweets, but shell out money (the sweat of their brow) for a book. if they were that valuable, Twitter's business model should involve printing them and selling them like books. :-)
- Karim
Karim: everyone who got that book pulled got their money back. So there goes that argument.
- Robert Scoble
But the student that got the book pulled didn't get his work back.
- April Russo (app103)
which argument is that, exactly? if you're talking about *value*, one has a price tag, the other does not.
- Karim
Tweets have value for the people creating them, not necessarily for anyone else, though. That might be the difference. But that doesn't mean that all Tweets have no value. Just because some are about eating a sandwich doesn't mean all are. And, by the way, I've been handed at least two Twitter books with all that person's Tweets in them.
- Robert Scoble
Karim: my tweets have a price tag. Just because you aren't paying for them doesn't mean someone isn't. Thank you Rackspace.
- Robert Scoble
April: exactly. It's the work we do AROUND other people's work that has more value to us. I'm more bummed about that student losing his work than I am about the other issues being discussed.
- Robert Scoble
you keep shifting the argument between you, Mr. Edge Case Who Gets Paid to Tweet, and people generally. if we took all your tweets and put them in a book, i seriously doubt it would sell as well as "1984" or "Animal Farm." your tweets may be more valuable TO YOU, but i doubt many others would feel that your tweets are worth more than Orwell's novels.
- Karim
We could find out. Put all your tweets in a PDF and sell it for $6.99 on lulu.com and see if you can sell as many copies as those 2 books combined.
- April Russo (app103)
Karim: that's not the issue under way. My Tweets have value. Period. To say they don't is being a jerk. By the way, I have published books and ones that have sold decently well (but not close to Orwell's) and I'd rather have my book stolen than my Tweets.
- Robert Scoble
AGAIN, Robert, not saying your tweets are worthless, just that you shouldn't equate the loss of something with a huge value with something that has a small value to everyone else (even if it has a big value to you personally). think of the crayon drawings of your children. you'd be heartbroken if you lost one. the rest of the world, not so much. a Van Gogh, on the other hand...
- Karim
Well, some small good came out of all of this. My daughter is in her room reading my copy of Animal Farm right this minute. While I did read it to her when she was about 7-8, this will be the first time she is reading it herself.
- April Russo (app103)
April: that is a good thing.
- Robert Scoble
the sad fact is that if someone breaks into your house and steals your child's finger painting, the police are going to treat it slightly differently than if someone breaks into your house and steals a 10 million dollar Van Gogh -- EVEN IF you swear up and down the fingerpainting meant more to you personally.
- Karim
Karim: yeah, but here's the rub, the major reason that Van Gogh's cost so much is because of scarcity. Thanks to the Internet information and content has no scarcity so those days are over for the most part. And, anyway, copyright law is pretty clear that Amazon is legally able to do what it did, so is Facebook and Twitter and Flickr and all the others who delete stuff. Maybe THAT is our problem! We've let lawyers write bad laws and now we're learning the depths of just how bad they are.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: What are the edge cases in your own personally generated content? How do you view that content in terms of control and assignable rights to it if you have placed it into the hands of a services provider?
- Jay Cuthrell
As a witness / victim of the dot.com bubble, I kind of go into things as if the company could flop tomorrow. The only exception so far has been Google.
- adam garrett
Google too will go, but they won't just flop, they'll teraflop.
- Micah Wittman
I just don't see how you can conflate the digital equivalent of Amazon picking the locks on the doors to let themselves into people's homes and replacing a couple of books on their bookshelves with the money those books originally cost, with a free service deciding for even an arbitrary reason to remove whatever copy of some content you uploaded to their servers, and then using that contrived logic to bash a large group of people by calling them hypocrites.
- Shannon
If I am not mistaken, the flicker policy has also been complained about, but the Amazon situation is new so people are more likely to complain about it now. People tend to fight one battle at a time.
- Kim Landwehr
from BuddyFeed
Not sure if its been mentioned but Amazon sent an email out saying that they pulled the books because someone other than the publisher actually made the books available and that even if this sort of thing happens again, they won't react the same way
- Patrick Aland
Maybe not in your book, but Amazon just took your book away!
- Californian
News Update. Still bad idea, but not as bad as before. http://technologizer.com/2009...
- Ian Paul
geek
Chris Prakoso, Michael Kacer, Müjdat Korkmaz and 18 other people liked this
lol
- Zafarali
though the text font size could be a point or two larger
- Rich Reader
Oracle-Sun: an enterprise catastrophe - http://blogs.zdnet.com/Howlett...
John E. Bredehoft, Nicholas James, Jack Boyle and 11 other people liked this
"Well, having a single throat to choke might sound like a good idea, but not when your testicles are in the 22% maintenance vise."
- Jack Boyle
Confuse the heck out of people by using the Wordpress ‘GMail’ Theme for your blog - http://www.zee.me/blog...
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Nicholas James, vijay, Beau Lebens and 27 other people liked this
Brilliant! Now if there was a tumblr theme...
- Jauder Ho
it's surprisingly well done you know...
- Zee.
GG, will try it for kicks.
- ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,
i might set it up for my gf tomorrow and seriously confuse her
- Zee.
I love it. Everyone is complaining that friendfeed is going too fast. Welcome to my world! Now, learn to use lists!
Bill Romanos, Mathew A. Koeneker, Thomas Power and 140 other people liked this
yea not sure about this.. it's basically "real time view" with a better UI
- andy brudtkuhl
This is awesome! I need to start following more people NOW!
- Lise
I'm trying it based on your recommendation. So far, so good!
- Denise Polivy
Wow it moves real fast
- coze
It's like IRC now.
- Andrew Leyden
And there's always that Pause button up there to slow things down
- Craig Eddy
Can I drag people to lists yet? That'd make it easier to organize.
- Jordan Hofker
Hee hee, it's like being turned into a pinball!
- Mark Dykeman
If it's too fast, you're too old.
- Justin Doub
too awesome
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Why use lists when the people I subscribe to are the ones I want to see? Only reason i have lists is to see specific people that I like to follow and catch up with at the end of the day. Kind of like RSS.
- Uncle CW™
no one likes change ,, change is inevitable ..
- johnpiercy
It's going to make HIDE much more important.
- Andrew Leyden
the list options create great filters.
- Peter van Teeseling
wow! this is crazy cool
- patrick
FriendFeed as the same potencial than Diigo and the same problem: not easy to use...
- António Teixeira
How dare you tell me how to use FriendFeed! (Except that you're right, of course; time to address my lists usage.)
- Akiva Moskovitz
I think that we have to introduce segmentation in our reading :) it is fun and exciting :)
- abdellah
I would like the icons back saying what type of service the post is from...possibly in the bottom right corner of the avatars.
- Paul Arterburn
My parents will hate how active the page is - the next generation, who go at the pace of Wall-E, will eat it up
- Christopher Galtenberg
haha, yeah I need to up my game in the lists - haven't had to use - but now I will. But I love it!
- Tony
That's dangerous. Lists require lots of thought, work, organization. If there's one thing we know from running Grazr, people do not want to do that (well most non-organization obsessed people). I think essentially forcing the use of lists is a big mistake for broader adoption.
- mikepk
I suspect people will trim their subscribe list, while they adjust
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Or the pause button!
- Paul Jacobson
so what's the first thing to do that's going to slow this down?
- Todd Jordan
I don't mind the speed, but I think there are more elegant things they could do with the UI during live updates (ie: fading to/from colors) and of course letting the user control speed of updates and UI effects.
- Ryan Stanley
when he name list, it mean filtering :)
- abdellah
Hmm... a few rooms (feeds now?) I created seem to be missing or just not easy to find. Will check out the tour to see if I'm missing something
- Dave Ferrick
woah neddy.....wouldn't tabs for search terms in the main page be a good idea...
- Paul Fabretti
the one problem with the speed is that what you are scanning suddenly jumps off the page. perhaps a way to "pin" what you are reading temporarily...
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Yikes, is there a pause button somewhere?
- Sally Church
This mega-threaded replies really do float to the top.
- Andrew Leyden
I guess your world sucks then.
- Brian Sullivan
I feel a bit like @scobleizer now.
- Mike Reynolds
pause button in upper right corner on blue strip.
- Thomas Hawk
+Joelle I think I'm benefiting by having relied on FOAF a lot more than subscribe to everyone interesting.
- Micah Wittman
pause top right ||
- Andrew Leyden
@Sally yes
- Ryan Stanley
Sally, Pause icon in top blue bar, right side.
- Micah Wittman
i think we'll get used to it. I already use lists, but still it's the motion of what you are reading that is tricky
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
So is this just live in the BETA area or is it going live system wide today?
- Andrew Leyden
it's amazing to see the comments pooring in here.
- Peter van Teeseling
needs a keyboard shortcut for pause. Or a contextual gesture (like hovering over some part of a story). Having to scroll to the top to pause is clunky
- mikepk
Wow, the likes pop up fast!
- Steve Rubel
Weird when what you're reading wobbles because there are things going on above it - if the L&F remains, we can dub this the 'newquake' :)
- Christopher Galtenberg
I worried that the new oh my god it refresh so fast kill the conversation in FF, I havn't to worry robert thread will be there as long or may be longer then ever
- abdellah
Andrew: just in beta area.
- Robert Scoble
Oh... the room I created is now under Subscriptions. Okay...
- Dave Ferrick
love your new avatar!!!!
- B.L. Ochman
wow, love the way the comments roll in...Robert, is your video up? good tips in it?
- Richard Binhammer
Pop Up!
- Jeff Stannard
I can't WAIT until the twitter-only crowd starts bitching about all of the friendfeed meta convos that are "cluttering up" their twitter streams
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
@Thomas, thank you, thank you! I was getting dizzy just trying to read anything. I hate the fugly UI and the RT speed. Going back to Twitter, at least one can read in peace at own pace there.
- Sally Church
Lists are the only way to fly, it seems. :)
- ha3rvey (Ho)^3
The world is a river...
- Marcelo Nobrega
I use lists but for a completely different purpose.
- Brian Sullivan
Hey Scoble, which desktop client do you use for FF?
- David Alfaro
LISTS are the only sane way to manage FriendFeed. I've had to learn that once I past a 1,000 subscriptions
- Susan Beebe
what happened to the block button
- Russ Jackson
I want an RSS feed for a list
- Dave Ferrick
dave!! do you want to read your FF list in an rss reader?
- abdellah
It pays to be a newbie right now I guess. The speed is to slow. I actually appreciate it being slow right now, gives me a chance to better understand it
- Russ Jackson
Yeah, I have my list paused now. I think we will get used to it anyway. It is fun to watch so many different reactions in so little time.
- Carlos Lorenzo
Have to say -- the message threading is now very nice indeed. Love the automatic update of comments, too. As I typed this, a couple others came in and didn't disrupt. Sweetness. Now I need to learn about lists.
- Anthony Baker
This is really nice so far..liking the realtime comments -DMs are a great addition. Time for more exploration :)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I said the same thing, but then everyone told me I gotta use Filters instead....
- Bwana ☠
Lists are king :) Also, just figured out that ROOMS ---> "FEED" - everything is a "feed" type now
- Susan Beebe
Your green aura frightens me, Mr.Grinch.
- Terence
As I'm one who thinks the quality of interaction went down when lists were added, being forced to make more lists doesn't seem a positive.
- Todd Hoff
I thought the whole point of FF was that you didn't have to "learn" a lot about the interface in order to enjoy the experience. Lists kinda ruined things for me, so if that's the only way to enjoy the new FF, I guess I won't be.
- Jennifer Dittrich
David: I am using Safari as my FF client. Jennifer: that's never been true. This is a lot easier to learn than the old interface.
- Robert Scoble
This will force me to better use lists...
- Seth Meranda
You are the Captain Ahab of social media, Robert. ;-)
- Chris Baskind
Hehe really fastt :)
- Alp
The problem is using lists more actually decreases conversation IMHO. I dunno.....
- Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
There's also the pause button at the top of the page to stop the auto update.
- John F Morton
Yep, agreed. Learn to use lists, use filters, ya gotta learn that sooner or later. I had to do it in Facebook some time ago.
- Tom Parish
Do you have a formulas that you use for your lists?
- Ed Entrepreneur
The filters are only marginally useful. I don't see any way to filter stuff out of a feed. The options for searching/filtering seem just too basic to be any real use.
- Brian Sullivan
Robert, if this is how you've been following Friendfeed ever since you've started, you've become my personal hero. Either you have superpowers or you were born in Krypton.
- Jordi Soler
from twhirl
you need the pause button accessible from anywhere on the page. I'm 70 plus comments down on this conversation and the screen keeps pushing it down and makes the screen "jittery" to keep your eye on what you are reading. Because the screen is moving fast, you probably need 'comment' 'like' and 'hide' links on each nested conversation on anything over 30 comments
- Lou Paglia
now robert may we ask you to share with us some tip about list?!!
- abdellah
Brian: what would you like to see in filters?
- Robert Scoble
if you think the new FF is too fast, stop trying to follow Scoble's threads ;)
- Ryan Stanley
I'm gonna start on the lists :) Way too fast.
- Roberto Bonini
Any way to pause on an individual user's page?
- Aaron Fowler
abdellah: you need to build lists around interests and personality types. So "noisy jerks" go in one list "quilters" go in another "posts lots of bacon" goes in another "tech geeks" goes in another. Jordi: my life has been real time for more than a year now. This takes it to a new level, though.
- Robert Scoble
I would like to see negative searching for one thing -- I want to see everything that doesn't have LOLcats in it for example.
- Brian Sullivan
we need a keyboard shortcut for pause. Would help read comments, etc
- shaun mclane
We asked for ways to better track our discussions - and now we have an improved version (due to convenient link).
- Mike Reynolds
@Brian Sullivan search for cats -lolcats should eliminate them from your results
- Ryan
robert, I was thinking like hope that some will not screw the schema of filtering, notice that when we filter using keyword some will may probably try to target some keyword in their feed title .
- abdellah
Robert - yep - this definitely is not for the faint hearted. Must be on crack to use this! LOL
- Susan Beebe
It's an interesting interface. I'll be looking to see if conversations can still occur with this type of flow.
- AJ Kohn
Im curious Robert how many subscriptions do you show under your Subscriptions box. I have 9 and than 90 more.
- Russ Jackson
'welcome to my world' ha ha. i think with all the love the RS gives friendfeed on a regular basis it only made sense to improve it
- AJK
14221 more.
- Robert Scoble
Agreed. I'm going to have to learn to make new feeds to keep using this. Also, I may have to do something to get rid of this light grey background.
- Ted Roden
Would you agree that after clicking on the more link there needs to be better organization of that page or can that be organized through lists as well.
- Russ Jackson
I need to be able to post updates from a list if they're going to be encouraging me to use lists.
- Jesse Stay
The lists/filters system is too complicated
- DarknessFalls
The problem is that lets say a video is shared, and I'm watching the video - the page keeps going down, and I can't finish watching the video inside FriendFeed! That's not sharing, is it?
- Daniel Brusilovsky
My problem is the lists and the filters create more feeds which create more need for more organization.
- Russ Jackson
@Daniel Good point. Perhaps they could open Videos (and similar stuff) in a modal window, allowing the content to scroll ?
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
I think if they auto-pause the UI while I'm mousing over it that might help. It wouldn't need to pause long, just a few seconds.
- Matt Griffith
I don't foresee myself being a pioneer on the new FFeed, so hoping to see some interesting articles now that the embargo time has passed
- AJK
Just clicked pause for a minute but the counter for queued items doesn't show!
- Damian Holmes
Another suggestion on the new real-time updates. Give me keyboard shortcuts to pause the feed. Using my mouse is too slow in a fast-moving feed.
- Jesse Stay
There's alot to complain about FriendFeed and it's UI. Still has alot of problems to address.
- Chris Rodgers
+1 for Pause keyboard shortcut.
- Matt Griffith
Agreed.
- Russ Jackson
I think the number of comments went from zero to +100 in les then 45 minutes.
- Peter van Teeseling
Ryan -- the "-lolcats" search doesn't do that from what I can tell -- it returns an empty feed. I would also like to be able to search for posts having less than a certain number of likes/comments as well as more . I would like to be able to set up searches/feeds for complex expressions ("-lolcats and -loldogs" or "-lolcats and -loldogs" from a group of people with more than 10 likes and 0 comments for instance).
- Brian Sullivan
I Can only image a multi-column FF layout...
- Greg Lato
it will happen Greg... has to... would probably actually lessen the jitter effect
- Christopher Galtenberg
UI Tweaks, please: keyboard pause, pause button/key on every page with live updating, comment link at end of comments
- Aaron Fowler
I love how fast it is going. It's really real-time.
- Peter Kruit
Needs a "slow it down" toggle - maybe a slider for the speed?
- Jesse Stay
OMG! I see why you bought a separate monitor.
- LeighaB
or we have the option of ignoring ff just like twitter gets ignored when I tried to reciprocate even a portion of the followers
- Susan Reynolds
@Leigha: Yeah, I can definitely see the need for another monitor for this version of FF. I'm considering it myself.
- AJ Kohn
OK, Now I see how the lists work. Much easier to manage.
- LeighaB
FriendFeed should take that as a sign - you shouldn't *need* a second monitor to use their service.
- Jesse Stay
@Jesse: I view this as a better way to access the data flow - which is what I believe FF is at the end of the day. Why not have a separate place to conduct my data queries while I do other things?
- AJ Kohn
@Brian The negative searches work, but you can't just search for "-lolcats". That's just a blank search. Try "cats -lolcats"
- Aaron Fowler
For Twitter, the only way I listen in is via search.twitter.com or pure luck. Or via FF for that matter. I view more Twitter content on FF than on Twitter itself.
- Mike Reynolds
Brian, yeah I badly want to filter out lolcats too; -cat friends:maverickny seems to work so far
- Sally Church
Yeah following 11.5k people is hard. I really need to use lists
- Nicholas James
Andrew Leyden is totally right. It's like IRC.
- Ian Betteridge
one of my favourite descriptions of twitter: "like IRC meets the whole world"
- Dean Whitbread
I'm sorry @scobleizer but your world must die ;)
- A.T.
I use lots of lists and filters - I'd love to TURN OFF the real-time updating, please.
- Bill Sodeman
I could use a tutorial on how to use lists but do not have the time anyway :o)
- David Gross
the new friendfeed filters are awesome. even better than friend lists.
- Mike Bruder
by the time i have made a list, this page would have vanished :)
- Tatty Gibson
I'm back home & trying to catch up with what's up with the new FriendFeed - I'm assuming it's now live?? Also, I'm not noticing things moving too fast... is that because I'm not following as many people as many of you???
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
ill admit friendfeed looks pretty damn compelling. certainly complex at first blush.
- doubledrat
how to use lists?
- kang
filter is really a cool thing
- kang
certainly faster than twitter right now---still down...
- ChaoSurfer
so...when there are a lot of comments...it's not easy to read...
- kang
many fail whales tonight
- Colin Clark
Moving people from out of my home feed to a different list one at a time is extremely slow. If there's a way to move people out of a list and into a different list in bulk, I haven't found it yet.
- Chuck Baggett
Is there any way to select almost everyone on your home list and move them to a different list in one operation? (Similar to how you can checkmark hundreds of messages in Gmail and perform an operation such as tagging or archiving on all of them at one time.)
- Chuck Baggett
Aggregation is not lifestreaming - http://www.lastpodcast.net/2008...
Gerardo Curiel, Internet Strategist, Steven Hodson and Glenn Slaven liked this
After reading your post, I wondered if the definition of "lifestream" had become official as of yet. I searched dictionary.com (nothing found) and Wikipedia where I only found this unrelated post http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... so you still have time to submit an official defining definition of lifestream which is different than the way the term is being commonly used around the web. :)
- Seek Ground
I found that wikipedia definition of lifestream interesting including this excerpt: "During an organism's lifetime, they have experiences from which they gain memories, and once they die, their Spirit Energy returns to the Planet, taking with it the memories of the life form to which it had been attached. These memories in turn give rise to more Spirit Energy, allowing the Planet's...
more...
- Seek Ground
Seek - interesting point. I still can't help but think that "lifestreaming" is a strange word to attach to the concept of social media aggregation (and that by itself is an ugly creation).
- Frederic
Whether it's aggregation or lifestreaming depends on the intensity of usage of each platform. Some of these services lend themselves well to lifestreaming, and others don't. If you become very active on Twitter, then that grows in importance within your aggregated stream, and the whole thing starts to resemble a lifestream as you've described. I find that people go through phases of low and of high activity.
- alex de carvalho
I don't mind the term 'lifestream' - people that think that means real 24/7 meatsphere 'life' are just being obtuse on purpose - maybe 'sharestreaming'
- Christopher Galtenberg
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