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George Brett › Likes
Postbox: A mail client for Mac and PC based on Mozilla technology - http://postbox-inc.com/
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Amin, Isaac Zahavi, Harry Mahardhika and 38 other people liked this
Been messing around with this today and it's very, very impressive. I don't know if it'll beat out Mail.app as my primary e-mail client but it's way better than Thunderbird (even better than Thunderbird 3).
- Akiva
from Bookmarklet
hmm...
- edythe
@Akiva: In all fairness, Thunderbird's been dead in the water for a while. Gmail + Gcal have killed everything except Outlook in the enterprise
- LANjackal
The 'lightning fast search' - is it all locally cached to enable that, or does it do server IMAP searches?
- Sparky, lurking
LANjackal, I routinely loathe Gmail.
- Akiva
Sparky, I imagine it's a local index.
- Akiva
I'm checking it out. I like the interface, however "It's not Gmail". For you thats a good thing, but not for me. It threads conversations, but doesn't hide the repeated stuff. Too much scrolling!
- Sparky, lurking
Also: I'm not sure what they are going for with topics. Is it supposed to be tags?
- Sparky, lurking
For me, the less an e-mail client acts like Gmail, the better it is.
- Akiva
But what's the point of threading conversations if you don't hide the repeated bits? It's just putting emails in a long strip then. I don't see value in that.
- Sparky, lurking
Well, if people knew how to properly quote e-mail rather than lazily quoting it all, it wouldn't be an issue.
- Akiva
People shouldn't do that - machines should. Replying to email should be as quick as possible - hit a single key to start replying, type a response, and then no more than 2 keystrokes to send. Lazy quoting isn't a problem for Gmail or Outlook because they both do you the service of client-side hiding all the lazy quotes.
- Sparky, lurking
You're wrong. People should put more thought into their replies: they should select the quotes they want and they respond to them.
- Akiva
FWIW, I find Gmail's model horrifically disturbing if you're not using Gmail. It promotes TOFU and is generally a huge pain in the ass to anyone who choses not to drink the kool-aid. mutt(1) and vi(1) for lyph3 plz.
- matthew john ernisse
I love Gmail, but agree with Akiva about quoting. Proper quoting can't be done by a machine.
- Roger Benningfield
"proper" quoting sucks for context though. If you trim quotes and then we add a 3rd person to the thread how can they catch up other than manually forwarding them the 20 responses so far? A big part of what I do for a living is emailing and I can't imagine trying to jump into issues mid-stream if I couldn't read through the mile of responses when I first get it. From that point on I rely on the client to only show me net-new responses.
- Sparky, lurking
bleh, forward the thread as attachments, explode them into a folder and read them unfettered by all the cluttery nonsense. see also writing a synopsis. And that's about as much as I'm going to say about inline vs TOFU. This need not become holy war territory.
- matthew john ernisse
Forwarding the thread as attachments is a pain in the ass. Email shouldn't get in the way of productivity, rather be a quick and transparent conduit of information. Email is like IM that's indexed for eternity.
- Sparky, lurking
Sparkles, have you seen the Wave video?
- joey
Sparky, and trying to make heads or tails of a 20-level-deep quote pile is also a pain in the ass.
- Akiva
for this very reason I am super exited for wave. though a lot of the drawbacks of e-mail are MUA issues, not protocol issues.
- matthew john ernisse
Joey - I'm wet for wave. Akiva - trying to make heads or tails of only the last snip of a 20-level--deep quote pile is impossible.
- Sparky, lurking
I thought you might be.
- joey
Which is why you can send them the thread as an attachment.
- Akiva
If you send a 'properly' quoted thread as an attachment you A) have to keep doing that as a thread balloons and more people get added and B) the person has to click through 20 seperate attachments and figure out what order they go in. I'd rather have a single long strip I can scroll to the bottom of and work my way up. ALSO ALSO: the .eml format is not widely standardized, so you can't forward emails as attachments to people using other email clients.
- Sparky, lurking
If you send a 'properly' quoted thread as an attachment you A) have to keep doing that as a thread balloons and more people get added and B) the person has to click through 20 seperate attachments and figure out what order they go in. I'd rather have a single long strip I can scroll to the bottom of and work my way up. ALSO ALSO: the .eml format is not widely standardized, so you can't forward emails as attachments to people using other email clients.
- Sparky, lurking
ALSO - how the heck do you "properly" quote on a mobile device?
- Sparky, lurking
That would be a short-coming of the mobile device's mail client.
- Akiva
Name a single mobile device that makes selective quoting even possible (barring holding the delete key for obscene amounts of time).
- Sparky, lurking
That would be a short-coming of the mobile device's mail client.
- Akiva
That, or you have an unrealistic expectation that the world does something by hand that is entirely unneeded. I'd say that the majority of all email sent in the world is sent from Outlook or Gmail (the enterprise sends a LOT of mail) and both of those clients handle client side display of lazy quoting very well, and every mobile client in the world enforces lazy quoting.
- Sparky, lurking
And IE is the dominant browser in the market place yet it encourages all sorts of really bad behavior in both developers and in user expectations. Doesn't make it right.
- Akiva
Fair point. I still think it's a large amount of effort to quote something for a 3 word reply.
- Sparky, lurking
Jason - that is actually the one thing that still has me playing with Postbox. Search results as a tab is slick.
- Sparky, lurking
mernisse: I don't think most people care about TOFU so most clients don't care if they promote it or not. Honestly the only time I ever heard it mentioned (including 4 years at one of the nerdiest schools in the country) was at Frontier :P
- Benjamin Golub
Haha - google for 'tofu mail' and the results are so all over the board.
- Sparky, lurking
bolub: Which is fine by me :) I'm a big fan of using technology in the way that best suits you. Hence running Linux on a MacBook and barely ever replying to e-mail on my BlackBerry and my staunch use of inline replies. There is a fairly big rift between TOFU and inline even in large development communities such as lkml or {ubuntu,debian}-devel.
- matthew john ernisse
Akiva - one thing about your IE analogy. While IE sucks and everyone in the know hates it developers still have to code friendly to IE6 otherwise a large portion of their audience can't see it. Full quoting is inelegant but at least it always works.
- Sparky, lurking
That's still no excuse for it. You might as well encourage writing really inelegant code as long as it works.
- Akiva
You can write very elegant code - just make sure you write it twice: once for IE6 and once for everything else.
- Sparky, lurking
checking out Postbox e-mail client. strangely interesting. http://postbox-inc.com/
- Bill Carroll
Jason, I never used Pegasus very much because, to me, it seemed like an inferior Mulberry (the best IMAP client to ever have existed).
- Akiva
another way of saying top-posting, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... It stands for 'Text over Fullquote Under'
- matthew john ernisse
Looks good, but at this point it would take *true* Gmail syncing (favorites, filters, labels, etc.) for me to return to a desktop client. Gmail is just far too capable as it is.
- LANjackal
I am again so very, very glad I don't use Gmail.
- Akiva
definitely liking it so far!
- holly #ravingfangirl
Gonna have to check this out...
- Michael McKean
People who use Thunderbird have nothing to lose and everything to gain by switching to Postbox. It's missing a few niceties such as being able to click on a date and make an iCal entry linking back to that e-mail, something I do constantly with Mail.app; it's also not automatically turning an http:// text into a link. Hopefully these things will be addressed in future versions (along with making the conversation mode a little more intelligent as Sparky as pointed out).
- Akiva
Installed it as a backup in case of Gmail failure. Now IMAPing my all my mail to my HDD. Good suggestion, Akiva.
- LANjackal
Just installed it and am checking it out. Thanks for the tip.
- amygeek
I was really impressed with it until I realized I just don't want to give up that much RAM to an email client. Back to Gmail for me.
- Jason Wehmhoener
I have been using postbox since the get-go. mail was constantly having issues with smtp, and I wanted a fresh start. I like the tab views and to-do integration, they added quick-look recently and it has been pretty rock solid overall. I highly recommend it
- joey
I won't be able to use it as my primary e-mail client until they integrate with iCal. I need to be able to click a date in an e-mail and add it as an iCal event linking back to the e-mail. I do that constantly.
- Akiva
Can't wait to give Postbox a whirl on my Mac. Mail.app sucks so hard it's just dying to be replaced.
- Adam Morris
I tried this app a bit yesterday on a Windows machine, and I really liked how it easily integrated with my Google Apps account, even threading conversations. I seemed to miss some functionality that is apparent in the OS X version though, but that wasn't _very_ needed. Seemed quite speedy, and the default settings were nice and not obnoxious (e.g. didn't save IMAP e-mail for offline use).
- Niklas Pivic
Thanks for the mini review ^Niklas :)
- Keshav Khera
Keshav: I'm glad to have helped, if I have. :-)
- Niklas Pivic
hard to believe that institutions are still doing the 'build it & they will come' thing - literature and environment says otherwise #sparc08 - http://twitter.com/sshreev...
George Brett and carolh liked this
any suggestions for bibliography of such supporting literature?
- George Brett
Palmer et al. report: http://hdl.handle.net/2142...
- Tim Donohue
The Atlas of Cyberspace is the first comprehensive book to explore the spatial and visual nature of cyberspace and its infrast: http://www.kitchin.org/atlas...
George Brett liked this
I made a Wordle.net chart of McCain's speech. You saw it here first!
mjc, Jason Toney, Kyle Hebert and 32 other people liked this
lol!
- Carlos Ayala
NICE!!! He loves his VOTERS
- Susan Beebe
ROFLMFAO!!!
- Anika
Perfect!
- JCunwired
Thisis great!! don't forget my friends
- maryn
honestly, it could use a little whine. :-)
- JCunwired
lol
- xero
too much coffee in this election mess -- average coffee, american coffee and now coffee in the plumbing. Well, I guess too much coffee does things to the plumbiing.
- George Brett
Why It Matters - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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sameer, George Brett, Tommy Williams and Derek Coward liked this
bit.ly, a simple small url service - http://bit.ly/go
ThisGuyDoug, Lisa, George Brett and Bill Vick liked this
Wow! Shorten long URLs with bit.ly and you don't just get a short URL to use in Twitter or IM, you get some control and useful info: **It allows you to set up a custom URL ending for your link. (say a keyword? Tag? Sig?) (example: http://bit.ly/dd_bitly_30dc ) That's not all, bit.ly also tracks clickthrough numbers and referrers so you can see what kind of traffic your shortcut got and from where. Looks pretty handy to me :)
- Debra Durham
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