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George Brett › Likes
Who Are You? Digital Identity in Science - http://duncan.hull.name/2009...
Richard Akerman, Michael Habib, Berci Mesko, MD and 3 other people liked this
The organisers of the Science Online London 2009 conference are asking people to propose their own session ideas (see some examples here), so here is a proposal: Title: Who Are You? Digital Identity in Science Many important decisions in Science are based on identifying scientists and their contributions. From selecting reviewers for grants and publications, to attributing published data and deciding who is funded, hired or promoted, digital identity is at the heart of Science on the Web. Despite this, identifying scientists online is an unsolved problem [1]. Consequently, much of scientific and scholarly output is not easily cited or credited, especially those contributions which are increasingly digital: from blogs and wikis, to source code, databases and traditional peer-reviewed publications. This (proposed) session will look at current mechanisms for identifying scientists digitally including contributor-id (CrossRef), researcher-id (Thomson), Scopus Author ID (Elsevier), OpenID,...
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- Duncan Hull
If this is a successful proposal, I’ll need some help. Any offers? If you are interested in joining in the fun, more details are at http://www.scienceonlinelondon.org
- Duncan Hull
I ought to be able to contribute something on this
- Cameron Neylon
Should probably also propose a Wave session - how about "Google Wave: Unimportant Ripple or Communication Tsunami?"
- Cameron Neylon
@Cameron that would be good, will the wave break before August (or is it due later in the year?)
- Duncan Hull
Really interested what could come out of this. And if Wave can/will play a role later. Also nice to see the "Who are? Who who, who who" reference again :-) http://bit.ly/1bxRr
- Jan Aerts
@Jan I copied the idea off you of course, but didn't give you attribution (let me fix that...)
- Duncan Hull
The topic of digital identity has many interesting aspects and you mentioned some of them. Privacy is something that we have not talked much about, but is critical to think about when moving forward.
- Martin Fenner
@Martin: true. You could think about something like the system at myopenid.com: the minimal information (e.g. your ID and number of publications) is accessible by default, but other accessibility layers (next level = name + actual references; even deeper level = email address) should be explicitly granted by the user. (This obviously is an extreme simplification...)
- Jan Aerts
Researcher identifiers are definitely a good idea, but how is authenticity verification going to be handled. Seems to me like this should be headed up as a collaboration among granting agencies. Any ideas on this? What's going to stop people from squatting on names?
- Brian Krueger - LabSpaces
@Brian its complicated but see http://www.youtube.com/watch... for an example of how OpenID handles these problems (bear in mind that video is now two years old)
- Duncan Hull
Help, are we being spammed on friendfeed?
- Duncan Hull
Looks that way - weird!
- Allyson Lister
I would be glad to contribute from Elsevier's perspective.
- Michael Habib
@Duncan - I'm currently investigating attending this , and I could help you if I end up going. I'll let you know!
- Allyson Lister
@Ally @Michael thanks for your offers, it looks like Geoffrey Bilder (of CrossRef http://www.crossref.org/01compa...) will be running this session (or something very similar) - and he knows a lot more about it than I do. But if you have any other ideas of what should be covered, contact Martin Fenner who is doing the organisation.
- Duncan Hull
Postbox: A mail client for Mac and PC based on Mozilla technology - http://postbox-inc.com/
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Amin, Isaac Zahavi, Harry Mahardhika and 45 other people liked this
Been messing around with this today and it's very, very impressive. I don't know if it'll beat out Mail.app as my primary e-mail client but it's way better than Thunderbird (even better than Thunderbird 3).
- Akiva Moskovitz
from Bookmarklet
hmm...
- edythe
@Akiva: In all fairness, Thunderbird's been dead in the water for a while. Gmail + Gcal have killed everything except Outlook in the enterprise
- LANjackal
The 'lightning fast search' - is it all locally cached to enable that, or does it do server IMAP searches?
- Sparky, a big deal
LANjackal, I routinely loathe Gmail.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Sparky, I imagine it's a local index.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'm checking it out. I like the interface, however "It's not Gmail". For you thats a good thing, but not for me. It threads conversations, but doesn't hide the repeated stuff. Too much scrolling!
- Sparky, a big deal
Also: I'm not sure what they are going for with topics. Is it supposed to be tags?
- Sparky, a big deal
For me, the less an e-mail client acts like Gmail, the better it is.
- Akiva Moskovitz
But what's the point of threading conversations if you don't hide the repeated bits? It's just putting emails in a long strip then. I don't see value in that.
- Sparky, a big deal
Well, if people knew how to properly quote e-mail rather than lazily quoting it all, it wouldn't be an issue.
- Akiva Moskovitz
People shouldn't do that - machines should. Replying to email should be as quick as possible - hit a single key to start replying, type a response, and then no more than 2 keystrokes to send. Lazy quoting isn't a problem for Gmail or Outlook because they both do you the service of client-side hiding all the lazy quotes.
- Sparky, a big deal
You're wrong. People should put more thought into their replies: they should select the quotes they want and they respond to them.
- Akiva Moskovitz
FWIW, I find Gmail's model horrifically disturbing if you're not using Gmail. It promotes TOFU and is generally a huge pain in the ass to anyone who choses not to drink the kool-aid. mutt(1) and vi(1) for lyph3 plz.
- matthew john ernisse
I love Gmail, but agree with Akiva about quoting. Proper quoting can't be done by a machine.
- Roger Benningfield
"proper" quoting sucks for context though. If you trim quotes and then we add a 3rd person to the thread how can they catch up other than manually forwarding them the 20 responses so far? A big part of what I do for a living is emailing and I can't imagine trying to jump into issues mid-stream if I couldn't read through the mile of responses when I first get it. From that point on I rely on the client to only show me net-new responses.
- Sparky, a big deal
bleh, forward the thread as attachments, explode them into a folder and read them unfettered by all the cluttery nonsense. see also writing a synopsis. And that's about as much as I'm going to say about inline vs TOFU. This need not become holy war territory.
- matthew john ernisse
Forwarding the thread as attachments is a pain in the ass. Email shouldn't get in the way of productivity, rather be a quick and transparent conduit of information. Email is like IM that's indexed for eternity.
- Sparky, a big deal
Sparkles, have you seen the Wave video?
- joey
Sparky, and trying to make heads or tails of a 20-level-deep quote pile is also a pain in the ass.
- Akiva Moskovitz
for this very reason I am super exited for wave. though a lot of the drawbacks of e-mail are MUA issues, not protocol issues.
- matthew john ernisse
Joey - I'm wet for wave. Akiva - trying to make heads or tails of only the last snip of a 20-level--deep quote pile is impossible.
- Sparky, a big deal
I thought you might be.
- joey
Which is why you can send them the thread as an attachment.
- Akiva Moskovitz
If you send a 'properly' quoted thread as an attachment you A) have to keep doing that as a thread balloons and more people get added and B) the person has to click through 20 seperate attachments and figure out what order they go in. I'd rather have a single long strip I can scroll to the bottom of and work my way up. ALSO ALSO: the .eml format is not widely standardized, so you can't forward emails as attachments to people using other email clients.
- Sparky, a big deal
If you send a 'properly' quoted thread as an attachment you A) have to keep doing that as a thread balloons and more people get added and B) the person has to click through 20 seperate attachments and figure out what order they go in. I'd rather have a single long strip I can scroll to the bottom of and work my way up. ALSO ALSO: the .eml format is not widely standardized, so you can't forward emails as attachments to people using other email clients.
- Sparky, a big deal
ALSO - how the heck do you "properly" quote on a mobile device?
- Sparky, a big deal
That would be a short-coming of the mobile device's mail client.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Name a single mobile device that makes selective quoting even possible (barring holding the delete key for obscene amounts of time).
- Sparky, a big deal
That would be a short-coming of the mobile device's mail client.
- Akiva Moskovitz
That, or you have an unrealistic expectation that the world does something by hand that is entirely unneeded. I'd say that the majority of all email sent in the world is sent from Outlook or Gmail (the enterprise sends a LOT of mail) and both of those clients handle client side display of lazy quoting very well, and every mobile client in the world enforces lazy quoting.
- Sparky, a big deal
And IE is the dominant browser in the market place yet it encourages all sorts of really bad behavior in both developers and in user expectations. Doesn't make it right.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Fair point. I still think it's a large amount of effort to quote something for a 3 word reply.
- Sparky, a big deal
Jason - that is actually the one thing that still has me playing with Postbox. Search results as a tab is slick.
- Sparky, a big deal
mernisse: I don't think most people care about TOFU so most clients don't care if they promote it or not. Honestly the only time I ever heard it mentioned (including 4 years at one of the nerdiest schools in the country) was at Frontier :P
- Benjamin Golub
Haha - google for 'tofu mail' and the results are so all over the board.
- Sparky, a big deal
bolub: Which is fine by me :) I'm a big fan of using technology in the way that best suits you. Hence running Linux on a MacBook and barely ever replying to e-mail on my BlackBerry and my staunch use of inline replies. There is a fairly big rift between TOFU and inline even in large development communities such as lkml or {ubuntu,debian}-devel.
- matthew john ernisse
Akiva - one thing about your IE analogy. While IE sucks and everyone in the know hates it developers still have to code friendly to IE6 otherwise a large portion of their audience can't see it. Full quoting is inelegant but at least it always works.
- Sparky, a big deal
That's still no excuse for it. You might as well encourage writing really inelegant code as long as it works.
- Akiva Moskovitz
You can write very elegant code - just make sure you write it twice: once for IE6 and once for everything else.
- Sparky, a big deal
checking out Postbox e-mail client. strangely interesting. http://postbox-inc.com/
- Bill Carroll
I've been following this conversation through FF notification to Gmail. I've definitely have had a few sips of the Gmail "koolaide"... :-)
- Kevin Whalen
from email
this looks very good
- Michael
Jason, I never used Pegasus very much because, to me, it seemed like an inferior Mulberry (the best IMAP client to ever have existed).
- Akiva Moskovitz
... TOFU?
- cecily
another way of saying top-posting, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... It stands for 'Text over Fullquote Under'
- matthew john ernisse
This looks really promising, but I don't get enough mail to make me want to go back to using a desktop client.
- cecily
Looks good, but at this point it would take *true* Gmail syncing (favorites, filters, labels, etc.) for me to return to a desktop client. Gmail is just far too capable as it is.
- LANjackal
I am again so very, very glad I don't use Gmail.
- Akiva Moskovitz
definitely liking it so far!
- holly
Gonna have to check this out...
- Michael McKean
People who use Thunderbird have nothing to lose and everything to gain by switching to Postbox. It's missing a few niceties such as being able to click on a date and make an iCal entry linking back to that e-mail, something I do constantly with Mail.app; it's also not automatically turning an http:// text into a link. Hopefully these things will be addressed in future versions (along with making the conversation mode a little more intelligent as Sparky as pointed out).
- Akiva Moskovitz
Installed it as a backup in case of Gmail failure. Now IMAPing my all my mail to my HDD. Good suggestion, Akiva.
- LANjackal
Just installed it and am checking it out. Thanks for the tip.
- amygeek
I was really impressed with it until I realized I just don't want to give up that much RAM to an email client. Back to Gmail for me.
- Jason Wehmhoener
I have been using postbox since the get-go. mail was constantly having issues with smtp, and I wanted a fresh start. I like the tab views and to-do integration, they added quick-look recently and it has been pretty rock solid overall. I highly recommend it
- joey
I won't be able to use it as my primary e-mail client until they integrate with iCal. I need to be able to click a date in an e-mail and add it as an iCal event linking back to the e-mail. I do that constantly.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Can't wait to give Postbox a whirl on my Mac. Mail.app sucks so hard it's just dying to be replaced.
- Adam Morris
I tried this app a bit yesterday on a Windows machine, and I really liked how it easily integrated with my Google Apps account, even threading conversations. I seemed to miss some functionality that is apparent in the OS X version though, but that wasn't _very_ needed. Seemed quite speedy, and the default settings were nice and not obnoxious (e.g. didn't save IMAP e-mail for offline use).
- Niklas Pivic
Thanks for the mini review ^Niklas :)
- Keshav Khera
Keshav: I'm glad to have helped, if I have. :-)
- Niklas Pivic
A breakthrough on data licensing for public science? - http://blog.openwetware.org/science...
joergkurtwegner, George Brett, Egon Willighagen and 12 other people liked this
Cameron, I second your preference for CC0-like Open Data (CDK, Bioclipse, BODR do not use copyleft licenses for similar reasons)... what I miss in that camp is the acknowledgement that other may disagree, and ideas on how data with different licenses can still be combined, despite the camp they come from... this worked for Open Source, and why would it not work for Open Data too? "Debian GNU/Data" ?
- Egon Willighagen
Egon: If intermediary applications can interpret licensing metadata then a choice of sets could be provided to the end user, and be made more convenient for packaging.
- Mike Chelen
Mike, yes, that's what I am thinking too... the problem, which the CC0 camp mentions is data mixing, but that sounds like a technical problem to me... Even in the RDF world, one can easily set of a framework to SPARQL and reason from different licensed data sets in a well-defined way, in order not to run into issues... surely, if you want to distribute the outcome of that query must be...
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- Egon Willighagen
I have not, and will not choose a camp here...
- Egon Willighagen
Egon, its a choice about which freedoms you think are more important. The freedoms of the user, or the freedoms of the provider to limit modes and methods of re-use. Not trying to limit the choice, just to say that, for public science, when a decision is made to publish, the best way to enable re-use is to make it PD. You can choose not to publish, you can choose not to follow best practice, and you can choose not to be focussed on re-use. That is between you and your research funder.
- Cameron Neylon
Cameron, putting it like that is what worries me... copyleft clauses do not limit any users right to use the data, just formalizes technicalities... it does not limit you in contributing data, not in analyzing the data, not in redistributing the data... if you refer to it making it more difficult to mix the data, yes, but that is a technical problem which the user may find difficult to overcome (but not impossible!), but not a rights problem...
- Egon Willighagen
That is, I have not been convinced of that yet... That is, can someone explain me how this is a rights problem and not a technical problem? Open source distributions have no problem mixing GPL with non GPL...
- Egon Willighagen
Mmm... further tuning... why would the 'interface' concept used to mix GPL with non-GPL not work for Open Data too?
- Egon Willighagen
But is it a technical problem that will hard enough that most people will just walk away and not bother? But I don't understand why it's not a rights problem. I have this problem every time I want to create something that combines e.g CC-BY-SA and GFDL. Yes, my assumption is that I want to redistribute but surely re-distribution has to be presumed for public science, that's what we do....
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- Cameron Neylon
I think primarily because it creates complex technical solutions that will make people like me just throw up my hands and say why should I bother? License negotiation and developing technical solutions to these problems isn't what I do nor something I am interested in. I want to take the work of other publicly funded scientists and re-use it with the confidence that I know that I can do that.
- Cameron Neylon
OK, there's a use case... blogs... a blog item in CC-something with a GFDL image. That's not directly what I have in mind with Open Data, but OK. Say, the FDL image in on server X, and I link to that in my blog... would that be considered a clean interface (HTML) or a derivative?
- Egon Willighagen
Absolutely no idea. And I think that is possibly the core of the problem. I don't really have the time to find out either and I really care about these things...
- Cameron Neylon
OK, so a technological and therefore social obstacle; That is something I can live and agree with, but discussions often bring it to the table as rights problem...
- Egon Willighagen
No worries... I will bring the discussion on 'interfaces' in Open Data in discussion with the other techies... will blog on this asap...
- Egon Willighagen
Cheers, that would be helpful I think. Re-reading your original comment now I am thinking that what we were trying to do was acknowledge disagreement by drawing it very narrowly. The central reason that I believe what might work for code won't work for data is that you are dealing with different types of legal rights, database rights, copyrights, contractual obligations created through...
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- Cameron Neylon
Egon: Copyleft clauses do limit redistribution of data by requiring certain conditions be met. Although these may be acceptable in some cases, the best practice would be to include the least restrictions.
- Mike Chelen
Cameron: Legal restrictions are more cumbersome than technical ones because of difficulty in testing and greater perceived risk.
- Mike Chelen
Mike: And greater perceived pain in the backsidedness as well. I understand where people are coming from when they say copyleft helped spread the ideas of open source with a bit of coercion because it did do exactly that. One of my concerns is that with where we are now and with scientists that little bit of coercion would backfire badly and more broadly that anything with "legal" in it...
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- Cameron Neylon
@Cameron Do you think CC0/PublicDomain could have a positive effect with regard to getting releases of data through (or maybe around) tech transfer offices?
- Anders Norgaard
@Anders I think your average tech transfer office would be terrified of cc0 but that is because they are focused on patenting and control rather than leveraging innovation and creating an environment for more. I've had productive discussions with STFC tech transfer people about open notebook approaches in the past though. I think funder mandates will trump any perceived future income...
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- Cameron Neylon
Thanks to all - I am talking about this in Portugal on Monday and that's why this discussion is so valuable
- peter murray-rust
We have to insist that images of scientific data and observations are not restricted by copyright
- peter murray-rust
@Cameron I agree (as before) that funder mandates would make a huge difference. And I support the statement in your post. So my question was just to see if you were suggesting that CC0 licensed data would be easier to get through a tech transfer office than CC-BY licensed data (if either were required by the funders).
- Anders Norgaard
Anders, sorry, missed your point. If your tech transfer prefers CC-BY for data then they are incompetent, or possibly malicious, to start with because it is totally inapplicable. So I would hope a good office would prefer cc0 to CC-BY. This is complicated and confuses me so but it is something experts should know properly. Tech transfer and licensing offices in my experience always want...
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- Cameron Neylon
hard to believe that institutions are still doing the 'build it & they will come' thing - literature and environment says otherwise #sparc08 - http://twitter.com/sshreev...
George Brett and carolh liked this
any suggestions for bibliography of such supporting literature?
- George Brett
Salo 2008, Innkeeper at the Roach Motel. Palmer et al. 2008 (look in UIUC Ideals).
- D0r0th34
Palmer et al. report: http://hdl.handle.net/2142...
- Tim Donohue
The Atlas of Cyberspace is the first comprehensive book to explore the spatial and visual nature of cyberspace and its infrast: http://www.kitchin.org/atlas...
George Brett liked this
I made a Wordle.net chart of McCain's speech. You saw it here first!
mjc, Jason Toney, Kyle Hebert and 34 other people liked this
lol!
- Carlos Ayala
NICE!!! He loves his VOTERS
- Susan Beebe
ROFLMFAO!!!
- Anika
Perfect!
- jcunwired
Thisis great!! don't forget my friends
- maryn
honestly, it could use a little whine. :-)
- jcunwired
HAHAHAHA
- Trish R
lol
- xero
too much coffee in this election mess -- average coffee, american coffee and now coffee in the plumbing. Well, I guess too much coffee does things to the plumbiing.
- George Brett
Why It Matters - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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sameer, George Brett, Tommy Williams and Derek Coward liked this
@ghbrett my beloved 4 year old nephew will be 5 in 15 minutes on 8/1. So he and your dad have their birthday on "Cathmas Eve"
George Brett liked this
bit.ly, a simple small url service - http://bit.ly/go
ThisGuyDoug, Lisa, George Brett and Bill Vick liked this
Wow! Shorten long URLs with bit.ly and you don't just get a short URL to use in Twitter or IM, you get some control and useful info: **It allows you to set up a custom URL ending for your link. (say a keyword? Tag? Sig?) (example: http://bit.ly/dd_bitly_30dc ) That's not all, bit.ly also tracks clickthrough numbers and referrers so you can see what kind of traffic your shortcut got and from where. Looks pretty handy to me :)
- Debra Durham
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