"Dimitri Glazkov is our latest WebKit reviewer. Dimitri has worked extensively on WebCore’s Chromium platform layer, the V8 JavaScript bindings layer, and recently on Chromium’s copy of the WebKit Web Inspector. Please join me in congratulating Dimitri and thanking him for his continued work on WebKit!" -Eric Seidel
- DeWitt Clinton
from Bookmarklet
We have Google Apps at work, but my boss is a Microsoft guru and LOVES Outlook. I LOVE Gmail, so I've resisted most of his attempts to get me to pop Gmail down to Outlook. It's a battle every day. :)
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I use the Mail.app in Mac, but everything stays on the server.
- Aaron Hood
Not sure I understand this debate. I use Mail.app to access my Google hosted mail via IMAP. Best of both worlds and Google in no way "destroys" my use of Mail.app. I presume Outlook could do the same.
- Nick in Manila
I love Gmail, but they still need better integration with other apps/platforms. For example, Google contacts needs to sync directly (and for free) with iPhone/iTunes, salesforce.com, etc.
- Peter Ghosh
@Kevin - They're going to rename the company to Google BETA, Inc soon? ;)
- Tyson Key
Sorry, I meant Google Calendar, not contacts . . .
- Peter Ghosh
Gmail is a great consumer webmail, but in no way "destroys" Outlook. How does Gmail allow me to book conference rooms, or recall errant emails, or follow SOX retention policies? Both have their place and are leaders in their own area, but one does not supplant the other.
- Ryan
one huge reason why Microsoft HATES Google, outlook is just one of the major pay for software offerings by MS that are being eroded in market share due to Google
- sofarsoShawn
Comparing GMail to Outlook is like comparing Apples to Fruit Salad. :) They're not the same, even if they overlap on a few features.
- Kenneth LeFebvre
I would guess that Gmail is likely destroying Hotmail -- Outlook not so much. Still reason for Microsoft to be pissed at Google though.
- Brian Sullivan
I turned my tom(at)thomashawk.com email address over to gmail and I have to say that the reduction in spam is nothing short of remarkable. Every now and then I check the spam file and feel bad because real email gets trapped in there, but by and large it's awesome.
- Thomas Hawk
Feels like I'm preaching to the choir here but have been using gmail in one form or another since almost the beginning. After spending years using mac mail to consolidate accounts went full gmail a few months ago because it just works better and the extras are great. Don't see how anybody can top it. The only other one I've tried which shows some potential is zenbe.com.
- Mike Elliott
Gmail rocks! Once you start using it there's no going back. Two niggles though: Multiple signatures and blind group mailings, please!
- Todd Brunner
from twhirl
Gmail seems great at first - but recently, I have seen several messages disappear from my Inbox while I watch. Sometimes they reappear next time I check - sometimes not. Searching for reports of Gmail eating messages turns up a disturbingly high number of hits. Destroys Outlook? Maybe. Destroys messages? Yes. Not good enough, even for a free service! What use is 7 Gb of space - when it isn't 7 Gb of *reliable* space?
- James
from twhirl
so gmail finally has complete windows compatible keyboard macros, syncs my to my mobile phones, I can do my mailings with them, has an integrated crm system, and more? great. </sarcasm> (and I say this as an avid gmail user ...)
- Nicole Simon
Switched to Gmail from Outlook and never looked back.
- Roberto Bonini
didn't Bucheit invent Gmail according to Louis G? The opening shot in the downfall of Microsoft...?
- sofarsoShawn
He was on the team, yes - and did the prototype for the Gmail Ads, i belive. Don't be modest Paul.
- Roberto Bonini
As much as I love gmail (I've got several accounts), I couldn't use it an office environment yet. Want to covert an email to an appointment or task just drag it to the calendar or task list in Outlook. Outlook also has search folders so I can set up folders for emails I got today. I know there are GreaseMonkey extensions to support search folders but Gmail's date searching is just crummy.
- Andy Davies
I wish people would stop killing the aps I use...I hate that.
- John D Reasor
As far as I'm concerned, Outlook destroyed Outlook: feeble support for IMAP, a tendency toward .pst corruption (chief symptom: messages that hang Outlook when you try to open them), no support for user data migration to new accounts / computers, etc., etc. These days I use Mail.app on OS X and Thunderbird on Windows, and I am much happier.
- Pat Rice
Nice. I still have more trust in self-administered PKI; is that naive? Are they using asymmetric or symmetric crypto?
- coldbrew
Outlook destroyed Outlook the way MS destroys it's other products (and I have been an Outlook fan since '97): it became bloated and slow.
- Peter Ghosh
I'll still use thunderbird since I have to centralize many different mail accounts (and want them to be clearly separated), but I must admit that Gmail made a good point here :-)
- Stanislas Jourdan
Jourdan: Do you use PGP? We should have a key-signing party room on FF. Maybe I'll make one now...
- coldbrew
Gmail is far from destroying Outlook. I still have to use Outlook for plenty of things. It is just a different tool. Feature by feature Google is way way behind Outlook.
- Patrick Allmond
Gmail is the small business solution. Major corporations are way too private to be communicating outside the Outlook box. Yet Outlook has been shown in the past to have vulnerabilities. Security is less of an issue with smaller databases. Suits prefer the worn path, the grey rut.
- Phil Boiarski
Sorry, I meant gmail's encryption. I don't think it has any PKI option. does it?
- coldbrew
As we saw this morning, Google is not infallible. When Outlook fails on one computer, only one computer and one user is affected. When Google fails, the entire world notices. Google Mail is a nice web-based mail service, but that's all it will ever be.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
I don't understand that argument, Mark. By the same logic, Google couldn't be anything more than a niche search provider because nobody would trust a search engine that everyone uses.
- Kevin Fox
Speaking of gmail, I've been getting this nagging "Bad Request Error 400" message anytime I've tried to access my mail and it's getting to be irritating. It comes back up if I clear all my cookies and cache but then it goes back to the error message on the next checking of mail. WTF?
- Tsega Dinka
"When Outlook fails on one computer, only one computer and one user is affected." Right, because a software vulnerability in Outlook is programmed and rolled out on a per customer basis.
- virtually
Think of it a different way, Kevin: If Microsoft and Google both declared bankruptcy and shut down every server they have today, Outlook would still work but GMail would not. The odds of it happening are almost nil. GMail is a great web-based mail site. That's the problem it's web-based.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
There's just no way I'll use email software that uses the one-message-per-row paradigm again. The productivity gains from Conversations are just enormous.
- jakebf
Exactly. Outllok is from the last century. It's outdated and obsolete. Everything changes. It's just technical evolution. I know quite a lot of companies which uses this services. Often know own knows, because they use their own domain names. And why not? If I see the many "so-called" admins, harming the Internet with false configs and millions of dollars on setting up unnecessary servers, no wonder IT is going way down. There are admins who know what they doing. But face reality. They are only a few.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Outlook has many, many, many problems, for sure. I just see the argument as (A Great Web App)<(A Great Desktop App). Does this clarify my thought?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
@mark: that's entirely true, if kind of a moot point based on the probability. If visa went down tomorrow, nobody would be able to pay for much of anything. If Comcast went down, most of us would have no internet connection. It's clearly your prerogative to run all your own software infrastructure, but I'd rather have the convenience of web based software.
- Joel Webber
A lot of commentators are discussing chalk and cheese. Outlook is an email CLIENT / Application. GMail is another Client / Application. How you use each one is entirely up to each user. Most non-technical people think of Gmail as something they access via their browsers, whereas Outlook is a Microsoft Application that runs on their PC. Not entirely true. you can access GMail servers using any client (Outlook/Thunderbird).
- Chris Wright
from twhirl
Gmail+Gcal is an Outlook killer, no doubt about it. The day Gcal started sending SMS to my mobile with the reminders it also killed my old Palm Treo.
- Jordi Soler
What Gmail does is make using Email for the normal non techie person easy. The reality is most home users do not use the power of Ouitlook. The issue with Gmail is good lick syncing a pda or smart phone to it it works well for the calendar but not for contacts. Also Gmail does not give you an e asy way to store messages in tact offliine. Outlook has a PST file for offline storage and backup.
- Rob Cairns
As has been touched on in this thread. Gmail and Outlook are largely orthogonal. Outlook is a client. Gmail is a mail provider with a client. You can use Outlook with Gmail or another mail provider, but either way if that provider goes belly-up you're going to stop getting your mail for a bit. If you're concerned about your mail archives being hosted with someone else, then you should keep a local copy using a POP client, no matter what mail provider you happen to put your trust in.
- Kevin Fox
I went from using internal gmail at google to using Outlook at my new job, and while I think there are good things and bad things about the two platforms, I miss the speed and portability of gmail, but I like some the task/calendar features in Outlook. If I had my druthers, I'd use gmail.
- Ginger Makela Riker
"Gmail+Gcal is an Outlook killer, no doubt about it." Afraid not, Jordi, because GMail Contacts is a big ol' steaming cup of FAIL. When Google gets their act together on Contacts, then Outlook will be threatened.
- John Craft
Outlook is a platform for working with "items"... countless times I have dropped into the built-in macro language to do things with my email, tasks, appointments, contacts, etc., that I could never do with a webmail application like Gmail. I wish I could stop using it, because I'll admit it's a hog on resources, but there is no alternative that will do EXACTLY what I want to do like Outlook will with my custom scripts in it. :)
- Kenneth LeFebvre
GMail via a web browser is just using IMAP to access/control the mail on the mail server. You can set up Outlook/Thunderbird to access GMail using IMAP. It would be more accurate to say that using the GMail web interface has reduced the number of people using other client applications for accessing their email.
- Chris Wright
Why are people comparing apples with oranges here? Client vs service? Thunderbird may beat Outlook, but not Gmail itself. I do recognize the web client is good, but is not nearly as flexible as a standalone. Plus, as has been mentioned by others, I need multiple account processing. Gmail fails at this. Gmail will remain my service of choice in the end. Tbird at home, Outlook at work.
- Vince DeGeorge
I use gmail because of the spam reduction then feed it into Zimbra. Zimbra is an Outlook killer IMO.
- Nation Hahn
@kenlefeb: I'd love if you could enlighten me with the examples of what your custom outlook scripts can do for you, that you can't possibly do with gmail. My blind shot is that you probably can take a look at what greasemonkey scripts can do to muscle webapps, particularly gmail.
- Enver ALTIN
@Enver: One example is automatically filling out my weekly timesheet from my calendar. Another example is automatically searching our company's online directory to grab mugshots for all my contacts, so I have their pictures to help me remember who's who... :) This is why I say Outlook is a *platform*. It seems to me that it would be an extraordinary amount of work to use something like Greasemonkey to actually add significant new functionality into Gmail, rather than just enhancing the user experience.
- Kenneth LeFebvre
BTW, I'm not knocking Gmail. I actually use it to host my own email domain... I'm just making the case that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison to put Gmail and Outlook in the same category.
- Kenneth LeFebvre
Hotmail offline access has been available for over a year now with Windows Live Mail client. Can't make out why the same feature for Gmail is that exciting. They are not the first one to enable this feature. Zoho and Hotmail has been having these for a long time.
- Amar Shah
Gmail rocks... hate when some old relatives still write to my hotmail and I gotta go in there to get it, just because microsoft won't allow automatic forward to gmail.
- Peter Efland
Интересно, почему до Palm подобного никто не сделал. Ведь пророчили же подобную фишку для айфонов...
- Taras Brizitsky
Может, потому, что такую штуку неудобно брать с собой и использовать в полевых условиях
- Пара ноек
делали такое и до палмов, где - к сожалению не помню.
- xekc
Для того что бы это работало, в подзаряжаемом устройстве должна быть индукционная катушка. А её пока никуда не ставят. Но со временем все подтянуться. Удобно же кинуть в машине мобилку в подстаканник и не париться проводами?
- Aleksey Shmelev
Да, но удобно ли таскать с собой подстаканник, если идешь куда-то, где нет машины?
- Пара ноек
Aren't they? I looked twice to make sure they were real. So ... imagine a hot air balloon tour of Holland when the tulips are in season.
- Chris Baskind
Good link, Ken! We need to find more ...
- Chris Baskind
Is this where they grow plasticine haha???
- Joe Dawson
I've always loved tulips. I would LOVE to fly over & see something like this. I'll have to check whether anything like this can be seen on Google Earth.
- Kamilah Gill
Way Cool. I'd love to see them up close. Believe it or not they used to grow bulb flowers like that in Fremont California of all places. But the fields and greenhouses are now long gone, replaced by condos and high tech office buildings....
- Jeff P. Henderson
I remember how fascinated I was as a child when we drove through tulip farms in Holland. It was amazing.
- ※Fu※
We've got some big tullip farms around Holland, Mich, not far from here, but like that is only a town mimicing a country, those farms do not compare to this
- Michael W. May
from twhirl
There's a similar patch of bliss in Lompoc, California *just north of Santa Barbara.
- Susan Beebe
My favorite. We put in 1K bulbs in our beds for a spring display.
- Mrsth
A thousand bulbs? Wow. I hope you post pictures the next time they're in bloom.
- Chris Baskind
Dear Google Chrome: I like you but I don't appreciate you hijacking all my IE links & have them point to you. Please stop. Kthxbye L - http://twitter.com/pokervi...
"In computing, a cache-oblivious algorithm is an algorithm designed to exploit the CPU cache without having the size of the cache (or the length of the cache lines, etcetera) as an explicit parameter. An optimal cache-oblivious algorithm is a cache-oblivious algorithm that exploits the cache optimally (in an asymptotic sense, ignoring constant factors). Thus, a cache oblivious algorithm is designed to perform well, without modification, on multiple machines with different cache sizes, or for a memory hierarchy with different levels of cache having different sizes. The idea (and name) for cache-oblivious algorithms was conceived by Charles E. Leiserson as early as 1996 and first published by Harald Prokop in his master's thesis at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1999."
- DeWitt Clinton
from Bookmarklet
i'm not a huge fan of serever-side js, but if you're gonna do it, make it fast. Of course, they now have a big problem because they have no way to easily use existing libraries...
- Joel Webber
I don't ythink there's anything fundamentally wrong with it, but I just have no particular desire to use it myself. I'd much rather just keep writing Java with a solid IDE. Now that Scala's got fairly good IDE support, I'm playing with that as well -- it gives me all the tersity and functional tricks I like about js, but with much better tools, error checking, and support for large-scale engineering.
- Joel Webber
Server-side JavaScript continues to make little-to-no sense to me. Compare the richness of the libraries, the development tools, and the debugging capabilities of languages like Java, C#, Python, or even Perl or PHP, and ask -- do you *really* love programming in JS so much to forfeit all that?
- DeWitt Clinton
Having tried some server-side JS, I'm not convinced it's terribly useful either. Python has very similar features but a more widely used runtime environment and a large number of libraries, and I find that I'm more productive using Python than JS. Writing Java in Eclipse also works for me, as long as I ignore everything ever written about how to write object-oriented code in Java.
- Jim Norris
It remembers me my old days (nightmares) with SSJS on Netscape Server...
- Didier Girard
Ah yes, LiveScript. We've been here before, haven't we?
- Joel Webber
I think that javascript on client and server can male sense in the future with tools and libraries. Imagine having your entire app running like a smalltalk / self environment. Make a change in firebug. Deploy. I wouldn't write it off just yet, but a lot of work to go. I have been writing java again recently and enjoy intellij but hate the amount of code.
- Dion Almaer
I definitely like the idea of having my server and client code in the same language and vm, so that I can debug the whole thing at once (but I would say that, would'nt I?). I just think the tools for javascript, python, etc. have a long way to go before that's really feasible. One day, though, who knows...
- Joel Webber
My beef is that Python, Perl, Ruby, and other dynamic languages all have nice package management, and make it less painful to glue together and management hundreds of third party libraries. JS package management is still ad-hoc. There's no CPAN/pypi/gem style easy of use. Everyone invents their own build system, and the lack of first class module support in JS means everyone has different ways of namespacing JS modules.
- Ray Cromwell
After having used SSJS via Rhino for the past two years, I can say un-equivocally that V8 brings welcomed speed improvements, but that a lack of debug-ability (loose-typed language compiled to anonymous classes) quickly trumps most novel reuse and agility arguments that attempt to support the argument for SSJS. JavaScript fails most litmus tests for a language you would want to use if you had to implement a large (100+kloc) project no matter where it is run.
- Bill Strathearn
Bill knows from whence he speaks here, too. In fact, I dare say find anyone who has implemented a large scale project (large team of developers over several years) using SS JS and see if they'd advocate for doing it again.
- DeWitt Clinton
This is why Google Chrome will do well: http://www.mattcutts.com/blog... Peter Kasting from the team shows up unsolicited to answer questions. Go Peter!
"You wouldn't buy our shitty cars. So we'll be taking your money anyway." great parody ad (thanks to @gen for the tip) - http://www.ritholtz.com/blog...
Dunno how I missed this until now, but it seems Dmitri started at Google around the beginning this month: "...this year, yours truly: After long 14 years finally got his green card, moved to California, landed a job at Google, on the Google Chrome team!"
- Michael(tm) Smith
from Mento