on one hand they have needed to improve their communications, on the other hand it seems like something that should have been done with enough swiftness as to be nearly unnoticeable - how long does it take to draft an initial policy and have someone review what's going out as the policy is being implemented. - Goldie Katsu
The ability to integrate applications into virtual worlds seems essential for their adoption for collaborative work. With it the usefulness rapidly exceeds conference calls and similar tools. - Goldie Katsu
A link to a stock photo of my ride: http://tinyurl.com/chromepista -- I now rock it with bullhorns, and toe clips. Put on a front brake, but, I never use it. Legs = stronger brakes, for the win. - Do You KNOW Clarence?
I ride a Raleigh Detour 3.0. 21-Speed Urban Cruiser. That said, I'm thinking about picking up a nice schwinn for when I want to ride like the wind. Update Linkage: http://www.raleighusa.com/bike... - Jason Toney
Still old school steel ('89) Bottecchia with Campy. Likely upgrading as Christmas present to myself. - AJ Kohn
I ride a Gary Fisher Mamba. Black/white/yellow. I think it's heavy and the wheels are smaller in diameter than, like, everyone else's bike that I've seen. So I'm working harder than many riding it on the pavement, but since I've put some money into it, I'm loathe to ditch it. - Erica Mauter
Bianchi Strada, mountain-bike handlebars, Shimano brakes. - George Kelly
Nice, nice; lovin' a view of everyone's rides. What type of mileage are you putting in? My regular commute on my fixed-gear is 7-10 miles round trip depending on my routes, and I usually get an additional 10-15mi rides in with some other cats late nights. - Do You KNOW Clarence?
I was just thinking about how I need to get my bianchi volpe fixed up and get riding again. It's a beautiful dark metalic green and black with purple cow tape on the handlebars. I'll have to take a photo. - Goldie Katsu
Trek Navigator 3.0 - http://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en... - not quite a "bike shaped object" but close. It's slow as the dickens, but my knee problems meant I had to downgrade to this model from a hybrid with road tires. - Cecily Walker
Just as a note - Forterra and OLIVE are the same folks (and I believe engine) as the ones that bring us There. (Forterra apparently costs a pretty penny but obviously they have been doing a good job marketing to the military.) - Goldie Katsu
I think I might have been happier if this was a zero day vuln. But even with zero day vulnerabilities one would hope Defense in Depth would mean FEMA would have detected the irregular call patterns (400?!?) before Sprint. - Goldie Katsu
Reminds me of a comment that Len Edgerly made when presenting at our podcaster's meetup. He said he was inspired by a poet (who's name I've forgotten) who told his students to write a poem a day. A student said they couldn't do that. He told them "Lower your standards." Sometimes doing is the point. - Goldie Katsu
This is one of the local (Boulder) blogs I read, so sometimes I'm reading more for the links. I think the Glue investment theme (and investment themes in general) is interesting and the Gnip idea is a nice one. And with Thin Air Summit coming up I'm actually interested to see what EvenVue has to offer. - Goldie Katsu
ooooh, you put that very well. very well, indeed. but can one pass the baton *back*? i wrote about something related, but didn't think of trolls (because i haven't found any, i suppose). it makes me wish i knew things about anthropology in a formal, official sort of way. - idnan
I would never want to be "famous". It would be nice to be known for contributing to a "society", but I wouldn't want to go out and be recognized by everyone. On that same token, I can only imagine some of the more internet-famous peoples im's and e-mail's and moderating a million comments, and so on.. no thank you :) - Tim Hoeck
That's an interesting perspective of trolls and users... - "Czar" DJ Peterman
I just wrote about something like this a few days ago. I think I'd like to be famous in theory, but when I take a few minutes to think about it, I like slipping below the radar :) - Evangeline
Edit: Cyndy - I think you're right on the money here. Trolls are simply taking the most extreme position possible to draw attention to themselves. Much like a person will do outrageous things in public to attract attention with little regard for anything other than blatant self-promotion or the spewing of today's vitriol. While it would be nice to have stature in a field based on a strong personal brand I would never want to be notorious for being an a-hole. (thanks for the heads up Louis) - Morgan
Internet famous is just the indie way of being normal famous. And while sure, that article gave trolls a voice (which sounds so-democratic doesn't it? What we can only give voices to the things we want to hear? That's how echo chambers are made), it hopefully opened some eyes to things that happen outside the Kool-aid factory. Very real things that just don't 'go away' if you ignore them. - Eric Rice
I only want Internet fame if it comes with some kind of bonus. Say tax exemption? :) - Todd Jordan
If it was an issue of 'reaction' then yes, they are guilty of that. They know exactly what buttons to push. Would be interesting to explore 'faux racism', which is knowing for a fact that throwing a slur at just the right angle will cause people to react... as if on cue. So it's not so black and white like 'oh don't feed the trolls.' That's just ignorant, and saying it aloud is almost worse, heh. - Eric Rice
I have been guilty of unintentional trolling on occasion. I always feel ashamed after. I mean, I don't mind the living under the bridge thing, but the trip-trip-trap sound gives me a headache, and I don't even LIKE the taste of billy goats, be they gruff or otherwise. - Slippy Lane
Eric, I disagree. I really think if they didn't get a reaction, they WOULD go away. What fun is it if no one reacts? The mere fact that they agreed to the interview (and to be photographed) shows that even the reaction wasn't enough. They wanted people to know who they were and recognize what they'd done. It's the same as keeping your clippings or social bookmarking your mentions, but on a much larger and needier scale. - Cyndy
Cyndy, because they work as an anonymous group and the group itself feeds. Hence the 'for the lulz'.... it's a parallel not just by tech design of a japanese image board, but the idea of individualism isn't a priority. That's why you see so much of the "Anonymous" thing. It's ABOUT the group, but not the ego. It's so much the anti-blogger it's not even funny, and that's why it works. You can't FIND them to ignore them and on paper they 'don't do anything wrong'. It's a subtle pattern of conversation, like + - Eric Rice
+screwin with the people at the drive-thru window by faking a broken microphone connection. It takes awhile to realize something's up and by that time, lulz accomplished. - Eric Rice
In short, the blogosphere (read: tech blogosphere) doesn't -get- the lulzsphere...they think they do, but they don't and that's why the dynamic works. Those news articles are only the tip of the iceberg. - Eric Rice
Eric: You couldn't have said it better. To elaborate on anonymous 'group' manifestation, is 2-chan, the Anonymous BBS of Japan. ie: Akihabara Massacre, Many, many killing sprees have stemmed from 2ch. (extreme examples) - Mona N.
Even if it wasn't for the complexity of the problem people react emotionally to certain topics, always will. Unless everyone consciously chooses their reactions consistently someone will fall for it and give them lulz. Intermittent reinforcement is good enough. - Goldie Katsu
Eric, I still call BS. Trolls have been around since the BBS and IRC. The group allows anonymity to stretch it out, but the reaction is still what they are after. The lulz is still attention. If every single person ignored them (EVERY LAST ONE) do you honestly think they'd still do it? Firm answer is no, they wouldn't. No attention, no lulz. It has nothing to do with the blogosphere and everything to do with annoying people to get the reaction. - Cyndy
They THEMSELVES propagate the attention inward, we could ignore all we want but by the time we get affected, they got the lulz. That's why I'm saying it's not this 'oh yeah just ignore them'... by the time you realize you've been had, it's too late, mission is accomplished. I think our def of trolls is varied. Like Igor and Coulter are trolls to Scoble. Lulz are a diff beast where those rules don't apply. - Eric Rice
kathy sierra tried to ignore her trolls, no? but she couldn't just wish them away until she shuttered her blog. perhaps she could give insight on how easy or hard that is in reality. i more or less agree with @eric's take here. - .LAGizmoto
Eric is right. Trolls often don't care about the attention. They often just want to stop a conversation. You see this most in political blogs where the trolls are actually paid by competition to keep conversations from getting going. Sort of the same way with Apple fans who were urged on by Guy Kawasaki types. Or teenagers who egg cars. Destruction is a goal, too. - Robert Scoble
"Some men just want to watch the world burn." -- Alfred the Butler - Karim
No, Kathy Sierra did exactly what they wanted. She reacted. She said she was afraid. She quit blogging. She pulled out of a conference. Trolls won. - Cyndy
hmmm...but as i understood it from reading the Sierra story as it unfolded, for a long time, she tried to just ignore them, and then the nooses and such started showing up. these people are relentless. i enjoyed your original post, btw. one thing i'd like further exploration on is what kind of axe does "old media" like the NYT have to grind by giving trolls a public platform. if the interweb is painted as a scarier place, doesn't old media benefit? - .LAGizmoto
I'm not really familiar with the Sierra story, but from the comments and the NYT story, it looks like the trolls will push things as far as necessary to get a reaction, no matter how far he has to go. The only thing you can do for defense is to be ready to close everything down and start anew. I don't know how many people would be ready to do that. - steplow is Steve
If it was a choice between personal safety and the safety of my family vs. my blog, I'd choose the former every time. I don't understand how that's even a question. - Jason Kaneshiro
Funny thing is I don't want to be Internet famous, hence my handle. If I were to be famous, everyone in the world would want me to come over and fix their computer problems! - imabonehead
I'm not sure "left" is quite the right term. I still post status updates there occasionally, but don't use it for conversations at all any more. Those all happen here now on FriendFeed. - Thomas Hawk
Didn't "leave". Just stopped using it and now use FF. Hi Shel ;) - Jay Tannenbaum
Why leave Twitter? If you have a good circle of friends it is fun. - Igor The Troll
I'm not lurching over to identi.ca just yet. sounds like it's already fail whaling. Call us all Ishmael. - Jay Tannenbaum
I jumped on, and wish them well. But I like FF better than Twitter or its clones. - Chris Baskind
No. I use them for different purposes. Twitter is like a shoutbox, while FF is like a conversational tool. - Winston Teo
I tried to leave Twitter. But I fell of the wagon after about 10 days. I am so weak. - ron k jeffries
I didn't leave Twitter. I supplemented it with Friendfeed and others though. - Morton Fox
NOT YET... I am faithful. I like twitter. I think they need to get their stuff together, re-build and re-release... they will arise from the ashes, and if they don't we'll say good-bye to the fail whale and move on to .... ah to something bright, shiny and new like indenti.ca *** snnooooooze*** - Susan Beebe
Left it for the summer. Livin FF for a season. - Dave Martin
Still pumping out tweets 5 to 7 times a week. - Russellreno
nope; not till the whale is dead. I like FF but the simplicity and realtime conversation model works for me. Don't get bogged down in endless comments on Twitter vs FF - Stuart Forsyth via twhirl
The truth is I stay because the people I want to tweet with stay, but if there is a new place where the people I find significant are tweeting then I will switch. The brokenness of Twitter has been increasingly painful. - Goldie Katsu
I've mostly left twitter and most of the networks like it... - acedanger
I just left Twitter for Identi.ca as a sign of belief in the project. - Earle Martin
My policy is to go where most of my friends go. I have not yet left Twitter because many friends are there. But I am spending more time on FF & less time with the fail whale. - shelisrael1
I've been out of Twitter for tow months. Good riddance. - Rob Safuto
I haven't. I find FF very difficult to deal with atm and I totally lacking good tools. With twitter I ahve plenty of tools plus the custom ones I've built myself. - Alex Popescu via feedalizr
“What I can't seem to understand in this whole Shel "puppet" situation is why people aren't coming to his defense like they came to Kathy Sierra's defense? All things considered, it makes Shel uncomforable. I smell waffles!”
Uh, why? Because Shel's a man and Kathy's a woman? They're both victims! Shel's getting bullied, and somehow he's the one who is under attack for not having a sense of humor about it. Sorry, but I still smell waffles. - l0ckergn0me
shel doesn't do victim well enough, but you're right, if he was a woman, different story, and it's a double standard - Duncan Riley
Seems like some weird "mean kids" high school feud. Tiresome. Might be swingin' shel's way tho. - Jay Tannenbaum
Maybe. I think that Shel's target demo isn't the cool kids, anymore. Loren's better at playing politics, and he's backed by Mike. You don't get much more political juice than that. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
I don't want to be put into some kind of "pro Mike and Loren" camp, but to compare what Loren is doing to Shel with what happened to Kathy is stretching things all out of shape, I think. Loren is "taking the piss," as the Brits say, and that is directed at Shel and his professional skills, not him as a person. It's on the edge, as most satire is, and arguably is mean-spirited, but I still think it's qualitatively different. - mathew ingram via fftogo
very different situations, threats of sexual violence intended to silence outspoken women carry loads of personal and social historical weight. using a puppet to say a man on camera is silly is going to hurt feelings but it's different by so far that it's a different phenomenon. like pointing and laughing vs punching some one in the face. plus l.f. is such a dickface that few people want to challenge him. that's what i think. - Marshall Kirkpatrick via fftogo
come on Shel... I don't know you. but the puppet I know. think what Seinfeld did for the soup nazi! who is KAthy? and why doesn't she have a puppet? - Noah David Simon
I'm not a "pro" either side here, either - merely pointing out that (personally or professionally) Shel doesn't like it. Period. End of story. The last thing anybody should tell him to do is "lighten up" about it. - l0ckergn0me
I still smell waffles. The blogosphere is accepting these attacks, but not others?! It makes absolutely no sense to me, personally or professionally. Or, let me put it to you another way: how would it make YOU feel if YOU were on the receiving end of this?! - l0ckergn0me
what's the deal on the waffles? waffles are good. this situation is not. - Justin Whitaker
OK, I will take the obvious approach. Kathy was being attacked and threatened on her blog. Loren's videos are just an attempt at poking fun. Granted someone should come to Shel's defense a little, but the situation is much different. - Rob Diana
I can see how it could be funny until Loren made it personal.. Personal attacks from one person to another are not funny. - Ian D. Nock via twhirl
I heard that Shel was mean to Feldman first. That's what you get. - Michelle McCormack
I don't think Shel needs anyone to come to his rescue. But Loren has crossed from parody to meanness. I also disagree that it's just about Shel's professional skills. Seems rather personal. - Chris Baskind
Interestingly, I think this is probably the first time I've seen an attempt by Robert Scoble take a side in the issue. Not that this is a bad thing. In fact I'd probably act the same way - staying distant and siding with no one because everyone involved are friends (and in this case a co-worker). - trextor
It's all a bunch of idiotic crap. Someone trying to make a name for themselves by attacking someone else, instead of acting like an adult. Low rent. - Andru Edwards
It's not like he's Daumier or something. Let's take the videos out of it. How about twitter? Pretty personal stuff about destroying Shel. And calling Julia a whore. Let's get back to the double standard. Is chivalry completely dead? Creepy. - Jay Tannenbaum
Loren's behavior is wrong and it should stop - enough harassing of Shel already. Loren seriously needs to get a life already...gees - Susan Beebe
@Michelle McCormack Um, you heard? that's some solid ground to stand on. @l0ckergn0me i think the problem is that you used the Kathy Sierra incident as a comparison. It's not the same. However, Feldman's a bored bully who's getting lots of attention, so he'll keep doing it. It's the oldest story in the book. I don't know Shel, but I'm sure he doesn't deserve the personal attacks. I can understand his being upset. After all, this could start costing him work, and it does get really annoying after awhile. - Chris Cavs
I'll bet Loren can't go on this way for long and still do work for CNET. Then he'll lose work and we can all gossip about that. - Jay Tannenbaum
I saw one vid and thought it was funny - but i agree it shouldn't (and doesn't have to) be much more - Steven
@Michelle McCormack started it! what a professional world we live in when the rules of the playground count for acceptable behaviour. We have to realise that we all have people we do not like, people we do not get along with, even people who hate us, but that is not for the public realm, we should maintain a professional stance in our dealings. The moment you direct your efforts to kicking people down rather than making yourself better, is the day when you kick yourself down and are poorer for it - Ian D. Nock
THE PROBLEM is not Shel Vs Loren, its us- the blogosphere, we love to stick our nose into it yell "blog fight" !! We are to blame for adding fuel to fire.. they are adults, let them sort it out , rave, rant and kill each other verbally. However Bloggers are like pit bulls .. bite onto the jugular vein at the smallest chance !! - Peter Dawson
Shel? Loren? Who are they and why should I care? Is this the geek version of the east/west coast rap "war" from back in the day? - Queco Jones
I couldn't force myself to watch that video all the way through. It was boring and moronic.Not sure why anyone finds it entertaining. If Feldman was trying to imply that this is how Israel's videos are, perhaps Feldman should be aware that I didn't find that to be much different from the incessantly pause-ridden vitriol I've seen on the three or four other videos I could bear to watch (before deciding to pretend he doesn't exist). The major difference was there was a much cuter critter doing the shouting. - MiniMage
It's pretty disgusting. High school on a grand scale. Why do people have to be hurt to create humor? - Francine Hardaway
That's the root of most comedy. and highschool drama is the root of most of the blogosphere's interaction. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
My motto has been "insults from idiots should be taken as compliments." At the end of the day, it just shouldn't matter what others think or say about you if you're doing the right things. It's not fun, but smile and say "I never did mind the little things." - AJ Kohn
Shel isn't taking near the beating that Feldman is giving poor Julia Allison. I don't take anyone's side in any of these debates and find the puppet amusing, but if there's any outrage/crossing the line I think it's Julia Allison and not Shel that would have the beef. - JonathanJoseph
I predict this behavior will be mitigated starting Friday. - Jay Tannenbaum
I think the two situations are enough different that it is hard to know if there is a gender treatment issue going on, a different attitude about what is "just deal with it" kinds of attacks (it is a year or two later - we may be less sensitive), or a matter of being able to relate/laugh at Lauren and being more shocked at the attack at Kathy. So could be waffles, could be just too different. - Goldie Katsu
You are truly an idiot Chris to even compare a puppet to Ms. Sierras situation. - loren feldman
It seems like there should be a line where someone can tap out and be respected for that -- a this isn't funny anymore line. While Kathy's and Shel's situation's are obviously different, they both had a line like that. As such, the comparison stands. - Bryan Zug
Yesterday I was talking with someone who would send links to the Lama Lama Duck song to her boss instead of the information requested, and then feign innocence "Oh how did that happen". I think that's my favorite story of a variation on a Rickroll. - Goldie Katsu
Who can resist the seduction of Rick? I mean, come on, we all secretly desire to be Rick Rolled day and night ... :) - melmcbride
“Good grief, I've spent so much active time lately in all the non echo chamber social networks that my ears and eyes and thoughts are mush, and much of this 'conventional wisdom' we're fed seems so.... off.”
I see you griping all the time about "conventional wisdom" online. I don't see where you get that we think we're conventional OR have wisdom. But, whatever keeps you entertained. All that sets us apart from other human beings is we're early adopters and we're highly passionate about technology and online stuff. - Robert Scoble
Translation: lately you've gotten dangerously close to a reputation of a "Donna." All negative, no positive. Is that really the reputation online that you want? I want the old Eric Rice back who was building stuff and telling us about the cool stuff and narratives he was building. Not the one who is just going to tell us how screwed up we all are. I can read Valleywag for that. - Robert Scoble
Our 'conventional wisdom' is this 'being early' thing as social law. 'Adopting' is not the same thing as 'Adapting'. - Eric Rice
I don't know where you're getting that, but being early onto social networking services does have its advantages, particularly if your goal is to hang out with other early adopters like me. Look at FriendFeed. It built in some early adopter rewards that'll be hard to overcome. Same with TechMeme. Same with Google. The earlier you are on these systems, the more advantages you have. Anyone want to buy a four-letter domain? - Robert Scoble
Ahahahahahahahahah jesus hell dude, where *have* you been? - Eric Rice
Eric: I went outside yesterday. It polluted my brain. :-) So I guess we're just going to get this new Eric, huh? Sigh. I miss the one who'd tell me how cool Second Life is and show me his new stuff. - Robert Scoble
I think Scoble just proved Eric's point. - Nathan Rein
You've got 20,000 people to tend to. It's a lot. - Eric Rice
The fact that you bring up Second Life shows you're kinda like a year behind on me. - Eric Rice
Eric: a lot more than that come through. 400,000 a month on blog, 27,000 on Twitter, 13,000 on FriendFeed. But yet I have time for you. :-) - Robert Scoble
I bring up Second Life because I remember the Eric that was passionate about showing me new stuff, not in ripping into a community for its indiscretions. I guess you've learned some negative behaviors and I miss the old Eric. It's been a while since you've added some value to communities I hang out in rather than just pointing out how sad and sorry our lot is. - Robert Scoble
And where do I learn these negative behaviors from, suddenly? - Eric Rice
Bringing up Second Life is appropriate in this context. When you were involved and showing off Second Life there was a lot more focus on what can be done and the potential. Now, although you do show off some cool new stuff there is a lot more of what is broken and wrong with out much focus on where we go from there. You have forward vision others don't so we may need a hint of what we should be looking at. - Goldie Katsu
Eric: gaming communities where it's "cool" to rip apart people and things? Digg? Same. Valleywag? Same. Reading Donna? Same. I already know that passionate people are different than non-passionates. I got that in high school where the geeks weren't popular but the stoners were. That didn't make me excited about hanging out with the stoners though. - Robert Scoble
I'm just not chickenshit to avoid slaughtering sacred cows is all. - Eric Rice
robert: can't believe you just said "The earlier you are on these systems, the more advantages you have." - that statement alone proved eric's point on this thread and the other slap the early adopters in the face so they'll snap out of it and realize that reputation and winning in their echo chamber is not what life is all about - er ftw :-p - mike "glemak" dunn
@goldie right i'm coming at it from current events. I gave up ages ago on the intellectual property and DMCA side of thinking, because in general, the negatives of the industry being snarky about furries and flying penises far outweighed issues that affect us. Same with things like SXSW Music panels and lack of blogger rep (props to Ewan, tho) from a couple years ago. - Eric Rice
Mike: I'm just giving you the facts. If you bought a one-word domain years ago now you are sitting on $100,000 to $2 million. If you started blogging years ago you'll have thousands of inbound links, so Google will display you higher than someone who starts blogging this morning. If you have been working on online communities since the 1980s, you probably have thousands of Facebook friends. Someone who starts out today won't. - Robert Scoble
@robert making a social judgement against a gaming community FIRST vs. looking at what's deeper there, is EXACTLY why I've become cranky over all. This pattern has been repeated SO MUCH that is makes me sick. You have to get filthy dirty hands on and have ridiculous, dedicated patience-- sometimes quietly, to get to the meat of it all. This doesn't matter though, we live in a techmeme world. - Eric Rice
Translation: being early online DOES get you some major advantages. But that's off the point about Eric not adding value anymore. He does start conversations, but so does Donna. I just am not sure if that's the repuation that Eric wants. Maybe it is. Valleywag is hiring. :-) - Robert Scoble
Heh. Techmeme is slow. This is now a Twitter/FriendFeed world. - Robert Scoble
The advantages depend on what you expect to see from the services and what you see as an advantage. Early adoption can lead to greater visibility - if that is an advantage. It can also lead to greater distraction. There is a bit of shifting gears when I go from unplugged to plugged in mode. It is in many ways a continuation of the technology/culture divide of haves and have-nots but rather than being web/computer access it has moved on to something else. - Goldie Katsu
In the topsy turvey world of the socnets Scoble chastises people for being smug. Did I follow the White Rabbit down the hole, or what? We're asked to take the opinions of the highly followed as gospel. If you're as highly followed conversation may ensue. For the peanut gallery our options are to "shut the f up," get Twitter blacklisted, or (my fav) get reminded how connected the priests of the socnets are. Scobe, u haven't told us how many friends and contacts you have in the past 30sec. Getting antsy? - Jim Stanger via fftogo
@mike thanks for that, yeah I'm still teaching about what a blog is and recently, a flickr tutorial or two, amongst people that easily will challenge why they want to do that. Wacky. - Eric Rice
@ Robert .. Now if we could get Google Reader to go 'real time' ....??? - Charlie Anzman
This whole conversation is just tiring. Some people won't ever be remotely wrong, some people won't evolve (for better or for worse) and that's just the worst kinda of life to lead. At least I know firsthand what the flow of positivity and negativity flowing through my veins is like. There's just not a need to defend myself and parade around my Each And Every Single Data Point Around Ad Infinitum. - Eric Rice
What I've learned is that taking a negative tack can make you feel better, BUT a) it doesn't make anyone feel good about the topic, and b) it doesn't make anybody feel good about you. - Dewald Pretorius
Forgive my sluggishness but I am still trying to figure out what exactly we are talking about - by conventional wisdom do you mean inside FF? If so I'm not sure what the "outside world" not agreeing with the "early adopter" community proves? By granting that there is a segment of society called "early adopters" aren't we automatically granting that, by nature, their conventional wisdom won't match everyone else's? - Marco
@Jim, yeah when the crazy uncles started blocking and banning people in social effing media, that's the sign that our world changed. I would never in a million years consider banning someone unless it was useless scroll. I don't care how batshit insane someone is. That's what we built upon (not batshit insanity, but well, lol, you know what I mean). - Eric Rice
Eric: I'm wrong all the time. It just gets tiring when someone is telling me I'm wrong all the time without bringing something else to the table. You used to bring a lot more to the table. Lately? It's all about how your non-social-networking-friends find us all lame. I already know that. I don't need to have it shoved in my face every day to realize that most people think geeks and people who spend all day online are weird and stupid. - Robert Scoble
The thing that many confuse in these discussions is that a personal opinion is just that. It isn't right or wrong. But the way things work now is that in order to get noticed we tend to write "tabloid" type headlines. While this can work out fine if it is followed by an insightful post, this can work disastrous when commenting using friendfeed, Twitter or other short messaging discussion platforms. I say keep the discussion going, but know when something is true or something is just said ;-) - Alexander van Elsas
Eric: I always am trying to learn something new. I travel the world more than anyone I know and meet both geeks and normal people who remind me that we're way ahead of most people in adopting new technologies. I regularly meet people with old laptops using Windows 2000 and Office 2000 and nothing else. - Robert Scoble
Eric - so getting back to your original comment -- you are alluding to some cool stuff! I'd like to hear about it. You say your outlook has changed so much, and then leave us wondering how or why. Write it up, unless part of your new thinking is that you can't be bothered. And in that case, please tell me so I can stop waiting to learn more. - J. Phil
J.Phil and Marco, I will, I wasn't expecting a simple comment to start drama, but apparently, there's some nerves that can be hit. - Eric Rice
Non-geeks all have computers now and they "get" Facebook. Send them there first. And you best not start trash talking about my 5 year old, 800mghz. 12" PowerBook running Panther, Scoble. Or else ......... - Tom Novak
Eric - lol understand - thought it was an interesting comment and was curious about the specifics behind it but didn't expect this either - Marco
eric: you're phrasing was probably too... against something rather than pushing what you wanted, or at least, many times people get caught in the negative understanding of something faster than the positive approach. i'd still like to see conventional knowledge defined - Ruben Llibre
I was an early adopter of "a/s/l?" What does that get me? - moo Money
Eric: this isn't the first time you've posted something like this. I'm seeing a pattern and it's started to bug me the way that Donna bugs me. If that's your goal, great. Success! But is that really the reputation you're going for online? - Robert Scoble
Course you thought it would start drama Eric, that's why you said it. :) - Bwana McCall
@moo - a prison sentence if you try it in a chat room now. - J. Phil
I like the echo chamber in FriendFeed.. but I'm happy to avoid it in google reader - Stefan Hayden
Once again, I need another option than like but let me explain. While this exchange has been a Robert v Eric slugfest, it has shown that this network is just as human as any other. I was starting to get a tad worried at all of this "maturity". ;) - Mathew A. Koeneker
so your reputation = "what scoble thinks about you"? - Christian Crumlish
I guess in all this he said she said what floats to the top for me is that Scoble at least indirectly makes it clear that he's been shaping or scripting an online persona and is chastising Eric for not doing likewise? Did I miss something? If that is fairly accurate-then we have this big push for transparency so I can show you my mask clearly? WTF? - Mark Forman
mark: bing bing bing ;) i've always liked robert's passionate approach to shiny new things so nothing against his approach but i've always paid close attention to eric because he's almost always way ahead of the curve - i think of him as the david bowie of digital media, but thats just me :-p - mike "glemak" dunn
I would say eric more like the brian eno but I digress... - Mark Forman
Hmm. Possibly the most pointless argument of the day. /me golf-claps - Ian Betteridge
“My wife signed up for Brightkite and snarked immediately: "How the fuck do I use it?" Meaning: Isn't it arrogant that sites just assume everyone knows how to use everything? Instructional design, indeed.”
I've noticed this too, the help and how-to on most sites is the weakest ever. Oh yeah, we can hide behind 'people don't RTFM', but still. - Eric Rice
Particularly with Brightkite, they force you to search for a location before you can check in. That threw me for a loop. Why can't I just say "This is where I am?" Why do I need to search for it first? - Mark Trapp
bright kite has a number of issues before it's ready for prime time. one that gets me every time is the performance of its sms interface. if you search for something in your area to do a check in, you may well be gone by the time brightkite comes back with the results of the query. FAIL. - sean808080 via twhirl
@Mark, I beleive the search returns results that can be placed on maps vs. you typing whatever you want and they trying to figure out where you are. - Tsega Dinka
Tsega, sure, but why not let me say "This is where i am" and do what Google Maps does: if I type something it doesn't understand, it says "Did you mean this?" Right now, the only cue of where you're supposed to check in is a microscopic question mark next to "You have not checked in" that tells me I have to do a search first. - Mark Trapp
Um..yeah I had exactly the same reaction. I couldn't figure out how to set my location. I still find it clunky. When I was trying to do the company lookup the first time I fought with it for 30 minutes and finally gave up and manually put in the information. I now know how to but...um I use this kind of stuff regularly. If I can't figure it out there is something wrong. - Goldie Katsu
Well, she's one step ahead of me... I haven't signed up. :) - l0ckergn0me
Thats the reason I have not seen that site after I signed up!! - Jigar Mehta via bTT
<yawn> yeah I feel her on this one </yawn> - Mark Forman
I think the most "beta" part of beta releases is the UI/how to portion.Most techies don't know how to talkie. - Mark Forman
was just thinking of how much of a bkite noob i am. they have complex sms codecs to learn. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
I disagree about holding hands when services are still in beta and invite only. I would expect a released version of a service to do better. Getting an invite and being a early adopter comes with some strings - broken software and no manuals are usually at the head of the list. - Doug Brooks
None of this stuff is prime time until it can be properly sold to the masses with a DUH. Also, Brightkite (which I do actually like) isn't the only one here, we could probably list the services that run on geek assumptions. - Eric Rice
I'm sure other people have similar rules, but my rule is the 10/10 rule: the user must grasp how to begin using your software within 10 seconds, and must be able to use it without supervision or help after 10 minutes. Granted, advanced things might take more time, but they should have a working knowledge of how to do day-to-day things in 10 minutes. Any more time, and it's back to the usability drawing board. - Mark Trapp
@mark t: i like that. beta or not, user friendliness should be in the top five of the list. - edythe
Yeah, I really do like bright kite, the idea an implementation is great once you get past the how do I get info in here? I spent more than 10 seconds looking for a check-in button. - Goldie Katsu
Eric - your wife is a savvy Web 2.0 app user. Start-ups that fail to clearly guide the user with a nice, simple straight-forward walk thru on the 1st login to introduce them to their app are missing a huge opportunity to demonstrate the key features of their product. If the user doesn't see these features they will NOT see the *value* in the application and the will not use it. Attrition rates are much higher for apps where there is no up-front training on the 1st login. - Susan Beebe
Usability testing is the solution. Sit some people down in front of the screen, ask them to perform a task. Sit back and watch. Its amazing how quickly you find out that what you thought was obvious, is completely missed by everyone. Doing a Beta release in and of itself will not solve UI issues. - Kevin Shannon
Does anyone have a spare invite to BrightKite available? - Joe Dawson
Joe, email me at mark@itafroma.com and I'll hook you up. - Mark Trapp
Brightkite.left me too wondering why I was wasting my time - Noah David Simon
I like BK, but when you are in the exact same location for a few days, it's kinda retarded, conceptually. - Eric Rice
Eric, yeah: I've been wanting to use it in earnest for the past few days, but... I haven't gone anywhere. - Mark Trapp
It's as much as "why should I use it" as "how do I use it." - Leo Laporte
BrightKite was alittle hard to figure out at first, but once you get the hang of it - it's a pretty powerful social feature. I don't really have any friends on BrightKite but using it hand-in-hand with Twitter is great. - Aaron Myers
it's only interesting when you check in away from home/work. it would be especially interesting to see places within a given geographic radius where the most people have checked in. geographic serendipity. also, hopefully, they'll get this working with gps - rob zand
So far, I like it. It's a little tricky to figure out at first, especially posting from the web site using my blackberry, but I think I've got it. The problem is, I haven't gone anywhere since I signed up. :) I'm interviewing for a new job with about 50% travel, and I'm thinking it'll be a lot more useful then. - Harvey Simmons
The one thing I do find interesting with it is doing a search for a place where you are going, have been or are curious about and see the activity there. - Delete Me
signed up for it, used it a couple times, but too much of a hassle to keep telling it where i am. my friends can txt me or twitter me for "where i am" info. - Chris Harris
BK is quite boring when I'm just going from home to work and so forth, but when I go places work or vacation it's kind of cool. I do have issue with the foreign place names being in the local language, such as when I'm in China, I get all china symbols. Being that I'm not a manual reader, it took some time to figure it out, but I got it going after a bit. - clarke thomas
i've been loving brightkite, however it makes me realise that i should be getting out more. i also stopped checking in when at home, as i don't think that counts as interest to the public. - Kevin Buckstiegel via
