До Києва їдуть відомі фінські металісти! Одні з них це фолк-метал гурт Fintroll, а інші це Melodic Death/Power metal гурт Norther. Підтримку забезпечує український гурт Буревій, які є представником heathen black-death. Білети можна придбати в театральних касах, магазинах Core, на сайті www.olvia.com.ua/ Також можна забронювати на сайті www.froster.org Вартість квитків 250 грн. В день концерту – 300 грн. Організатор концерту – Global Promotion gpromotion.com.ua/ myspace.com/globalpromotion
Про це сьогодні (6 листопада) повідомив сам засновник та бас-гітарист гурту – Joey De Maio на прес-конференції в Києві. Також він разом з представником компанії Global Promotion, яка виступає організатором, відповів на запитання українських журналістів. Зокрема Джо розповів, що дуже радий нарешті побувати в Україні, адже знайомий з її представниками з самого дитинства, виріс віг в інтернацональному кварталі Нью-Йорку. Також Джо заявив про унікальність шоу, яке відбудеться, та додав, що кожен їхній новий виступ ретельно продумується і відрізняється від попереднього. Привідкрив і невелику таємницю, виявляється київський виступ буде зніматися на кілька камер, отже можна припустити, що потрапить до одного з настуних DVD колективу...
My nightly rant: If you think that a web standard should be a list of compromises to make companies happy, then you failed. You're not making a better web, you're supporting and adding some more mess to the mess. We need some kind of tech "manliness". Create things because they're the right way to do it and don't try to please everyone.
Brian, probably so.. but "atomicity" is not. And I said "companies", real standards imho shouldn't be adopted without the help of universities
- directeur
Are you naming names on which standards in particular were the trigger here or is it just the whole mess :) I'm guessing HTML/5 video.
- Ed Millard
Academics are involved in the creation of many standards. But academics carry their own baggage and getting academics to agree on anything is worse than competing commercial entities.
- Brian Sullivan
What I mean simply is this: You want to create, say a new XML format, there are ways to create easy to use, simple, abstracted formats. Don't make that format a collection of items to satisfy FB, twitter, plaxo, and whatnot. Create your simple and efficient format and prove that it's the best.
- directeur
Standards have to be agreed upon -- else they will not be adopted and by definition will not be standards.
- Brian Sullivan
Standards are more easily adopted when they are successful first.
- Cristo
True! Yet, bringing everyone's sauce to the idea doesn't fix problems. It supports those problems
- directeur
Here's another eg. rsscloud vs. pshb. It's clear which one wins. everyone knows it. BUT if you try to satisfy say wordpress.com you've got to make things messier.
- directeur
Creation of standards are true business problems -- the time to create them is limited and consensus is required to execute the actions required to solve them. Business problems don't exist in a vacuum and don't have an absolute right solution.
- Brian Sullivan
The solution is dependent on the players involved and the point in time the problem is tackled. Technologists, engineers, scientists and mathematicians are notoriously bad at accepting this fact -- and are therefore notoriously bad at business.
- Brian Sullivan
Brian, I agree. I mean that a standard that is created to satisfy everyone is NOT the right way to do things. If X company is not satisfied, do not sacrify beauty and validity to make them happy
- directeur
As I said there is no "right" way to do things and consensus is required to move forward.
- Brian Sullivan
Brian, there is a kind of mathematically true, beautiful and right way. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
- directeur
OK -- I guess you aren't listening to me.
- Brian Sullivan
Brian, I do. But I don't think that "right" is that subjective. There are cases where compromises help improve things and make progress. And I know that business is about "time" (and money of course) But I won't accept the fact that I should sacrify the obvious, right and nice solution to satisfy a given business. — I think that we agree, actually, it's just a matter of a bad formulation (by me) I think
- directeur
directeur, if the 'right' way isn't the one most likely to gather consensus, implementations, and user acceptance (all of which are very contingent on external factors) than what exactly is 'right' about it? Purity? Beauty? Both of those qualities have their place, but a spec that only has those going for it simply isn't ever going to be widely enough deployed to be considered a 'standard'.
- Michael R. Bernstein
Rarely have I worked for a company that gave me the luxury to fully do things the "right" way. Most of the time I have to fight with them to even attempt it, and it results in more overtime on my part because I can't stand not doing it at least 50% right (which is about all the padding I am usually able to negotiate). Most companies are about getting it done and out the door and focused...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Brian, Cristo, Michael: Mea culpa. This world will always be the same. You are right. (I'm not being sarcastic) — Lindsay, yes, very true!
- directeur
jabber и календарь будут добавлены в будущем.
- Слобода Свова
а есть ли техническая возможность перенести контакты с одного сервера jabber на другой без переавторизации (т.е. плавно сменить провайдера jabber сервера для JID на своем домене)?
- uacommunity.org
openff.org webdesign concept... (1280 px wide so click through to view fullsize ) / post additional features you think are needed for the home page here!
2. Participation panel with 3 actions: join the team / donate / spread the word
- vijay
3. Latest News panel: I would suggest this to be the friendfeed embed widget for the "openff" group.
- vijay
4. Top Dev panel: Shows most active contributors according to pointers along with their latest twitter updates. The one thing our project can offer is lots of attention for our devs so promoting active devs on a leaderboard is a good way to keep the activity up and running. ( Right now, I'm calling it "dev" board for lack of a nicer shortner name but the final leaderboard will include ALL contributors including non-devs. )
- vijay
5. Scroll Alert: At the right bottom is a small msg that shows up when the viewer still has some scrolling to do on the page warning them that there is MORE content on the page that is available for them to view.
- vijay
I haven't added scrollbars to the mockup. But there will be content below the fold as always.
- vijay
i think the video should be embedded within the page.. but i guess thats the case when the page goes live.
- Gtp19
yep, video will be a pop up overlay as usual. The page behaves the usual way sites these days display content, nothing extraordinary.
- vijay
Very classy. I wonder how it'd map to a "physical" website, though.
- Tyson Key
Really like the look and how well it sticks with your logo design and color scheme. Couple of things: 1) We aren't taking monetary donations, since there's no legal entity behind OpenFF at the moment (but we probably need to consider it at some point). 2) I'm assuming the theme will scale well at different screen resolutions. If the plan is to have a static width, then it should be 1024 instead of 1280. Ideally, it should have a fluid width. 3) Did I mention I love the look? :-)
- Jason Huebel
I'l retract #2, since it just dawned on me that it's already formatted that way. :-D
- Jason Huebel
This is fixed width layout; viewable from 1024 upwards Jason.
- vijay
Sorry, I didn't get enough sleep last night. :-/
- Jason Huebel
I think one reason for the relatively low numbers of friendfeed users was that people were uncertain as to how to use it and what value it provided over other web sites. In addition to the intro video, something like the "What can you use it for?" text on the current FF home page is needed but better written and making a more compelling case for signing up.
- Rajit
This will end quickly Forbidden You don't have permission to access / on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
- Dan Morrill AKA Techwag
@Dan, check the group desc. We've only got the wiki going, with a direct link to it.
- Jason Huebel
What will be the licence of server software ? GPL 3 ?
- Thierry Lhôte
sigh. there's gonna be a license flame war. I'll simply say: -1 to GPL
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
for better readability bodytext has to be black (or grey) (just saying...)
- minus-one
body text 'is' gray right now minus-one; nearly the same color as this comment is on friendfeed. Why, does it need still more contrast?
- vijay
from iPhone
it's slightly on a green side here (111,120,108) maybe it's not sRGB...
- minus-one
ah! ok. no probs, I'll fix that up. thanks :D
- vijay
Vij, a sidebar with best of the day entries livestream would be cool...
- अभिषेक(Abhishek) Das
that's a good thing to have Abi. Let's add it when we begin the coding.
- vijay
Haven't seen this before. Maybe we'll never need Openff, but if we do, this is gorgeous! Re: sidebar - like the idea functionally, worried another element will crap this up visually. It's so clean the way it is now!
- MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF
yeah openff seems dead from where I see it. Though it really was buzzing like a beehive when I started working on this.
- vijay
А швидко ви відреагували на моє запитання!) Не очікував =)
- Stan
Ну бо цікаво спробувати щось нове :) Але АРІ тут відрізняється від твіттерського, не так просто буде все те реалізувати, що є для Твіттера.
- uacommunity.org
Ну, в такому разі, бажаю вам удачі і нових перемог! ;)
- Stan
"I’ve heard arguments that this kind of thing is culturally acceptable in Taiwan—in fact it may even be expected for technology events, though I’d love to hear further confirmation. I don’t care. ... If we want an all-encompassing technology scene, we need to actively work to cultivate an inclusive environment. This means a zero tolerance approach to this kind of entertainment. Booth babes, tequila girls, and scantily clad gyrating women simply set the wrong tone, here or abroad. Heck, this isn’t just about offending women—many guy geeks I know would be mortified by this kind of thing." Amen
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
Really? This kind of makes me want to go. :P
- Cristo
Too true. Friends of Lulu has been trying to make this point to the comics industry for years.
- Spidra Webster
This was company sanctioned? Wow, someone needs to have their head read.
- Kenton
It's expected that the "coolest" guys get bitches all through history. See Fonzie, and that begat rock stars and today it's rappers. In Asia, the geeks are as cool there as rappers are here, so in Asia, the geeks get the bitches.
- Matthew DeVries
Very difficult to believe the sincerity of an apology that clearly comes in response to outcry. However, I do believe them when they say it won't happen again.
- Spidra Webster
Don't worry, Cristo. There are still plenty of places where you can get jiggle and blow.
- Spidra Webster
Spidra , but I want to write code at the same time. ;)
- Cristo
You can take your laptop when you go for a lapdance. In the winter, the goils might be esp happy to grind on your laptop. If your machine is anything like mine, it's plenty warm for winter!
- Spidra Webster
There's a lot of sharp edges on the Macbook Air though.
- Cristo
So would it make it all better if they added male strippers?
- Rodfather
Yes, just what the world needs is more zero-tolerance policies!
- Gabe
Well, if they're going to ban the girls, I think they should ban PHP programming too.
- Cristo
This event, and responses on this thread are pretty appalling. As a female in tech, and regularly attending meetings as the only female in a room of 10-30 males, this just illustrates one of the reasons. It's hard enough to just do your job and get heard, much less go to "company tech events" that are clearly geared in every way toward men. sickening.
- Jenna Bilotta
Most of the responses on this thread were intended as humor, which tends to be a hard thing to convey through text. Calling them appalling seems like an over-reaction.
- Cristo
Cristo, in this case, you're pretty much just wrong.
- Jason Wehmhoener
I thought humor was supposed to be funny? Also, your humor is not original and I'm exposed to this kind of joke day in and day out. It's yet another reason women might feel alienated in tech.
- Jenna Bilotta
Jenna, I fully agree I'm not always funny. It's a risk. I'm sorry if I offended you, and although making light of it, I was not supporting the Taiwan Hack Day performance. But to be honest, I really wouldn't go to one of these anyway regardless of what was there.
- Cristo
"Well, this just strikes me as funny, and I doubt I'd want to go to one of these without those girls there" ~ do you mean it's funny like dwarf throwing is to short people or minstrels to people of colour or how about sheep jokes to new zealanders? The excuse of "hey we're geeks and if you don't understand *cognitive dissonance* - like we respect women hackers but also like naked chicks on stage" is wearing a bit thin.
- Peter Renshaw
as long as woman play no bigger role in tech you will see male related stuff on such events. why should we bend reality. you should pity the lack of interest of femals regarding tech-development (and not just sales) if you feel the need for pity
- Chris Hofmann
I'm pretty sure the guy who wrote this article is gay. Hot chicks in short skirts FTW!
- Garin Kilpatrick
I dunno.. my lesbian friend kinda liked it. (me too).
- Martynas
We're simply a nation of Puritans who say one thing and indulge in the opposite...in secret.
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
The problem here is not a society that craves "bitches" but women who raised to think that being one is an acceptable way to spend one's life, or even a portion of one's life. If there are no "bitches" to consume, then the "bitches" consumer will need to learn to adapt. Mamas don't let your daughters grow up to be "bitches"
- Matthew DeVries
FFS, people. This wasn't just dancing girls - it was lap dancing. http://news.ycombinator.com/item... tries to spell out why that is wrong as clearly as possible, but I think Jenna said it pretty clearly, too.
- Nick Lothian
+1 Jenna - Your comment, and the responses to it illustrate well how little effort is sometimes put in to what it may be like for women and minorities working in tech. It's sad that it needs to be so difficult, and how global this professional bias is.
- Michelle Darnell
Save me a Seat at the DRIP RAIL!! ;PPP
- Billy Warhol
@Tanath I'm far from prudish, believe me, but when this tactic is used to promote something, it makes me feel like they're promoting it to someone other than me. I went through the same thing in the '80s with marketing of musical equipment; it was very clearly pitched to guys. Just not very smart marketing if you want a wider audience!
- Eph Zero
"Well, this just strikes me as funny, and I doubt I'd want to go to one of these without those girls there." -- Funny, as in I wouldn't have gone to this anyway, those guys look really uncomfortable, and just like any number of things on FriendFeed and Youtube, it made me laugh. Also, my wife is in tech, and she thought it was funny too, so I guess I married the right person.
- Cristo
This has nothing to do with being prudish. It has everything to do with being professional. As a woman who works in technology, I work significantly harder than my male counterparts to be heard and respected simply because I'm female. I worked harder to be respected in engineering school and was often told to go do something that 'girls' do better. It's not that women aren't interested...
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- joey
joey, I think the using the term "hack" and "professional" are at odds to me. I agree this shouldn't be in the corporate workplace. I don't go to strip clubs, despite my joking. I also don't like "hacking" to becoming a professional corporate watered-down concept. It's like skateboarding, Yahoo! Taiwan was apparently trying to do both together. They failed, and it was funny to me.
- Cristo
Hacker news claims sexual discrimination. It seems as though the result would be to put the female dancers out of a job. Let's hope they find some other employment.
- Tim Tyler
Cristo, that's true, too, but 'hack days' happen at Microsoft, Expedia, etc. and they're very corporate environments. It was sponsored by Yahoo, it wasn't an impromptu gathering of 'hackers' at a local bar or something (and as a female I'd feel put off by lap dances there as well but not angry as I am that this had corporate backing).
- joey
I'm put off by corporate environments. In fact, it offends me when I'm subjected to it. E.g. I'm offended by most marketing programs, be them politically correct or not. It's their lack of authenticity that offends me.
- Cristo
joey, also you should know a group of hackers would never meet at a local bar and they would never have lap dancers. Didn't you see my list? :) http://friendfeed.com/cristob...
- Cristo
++joey I've experienced everything she mentions in tech, and constantly being called agressive, while my male counterparts are called "enthusiastic" its not ok. And no matter how hard I try to get male coworkers to see this, they just think its all in my head... it sucks.
- Jenna Bilotta
from Android
Jenna, you are aggressive in a good way only. Aggressive people change the world. Empathetic aggressive people change the world for the better.
- Daniel Dulitz
Marketing departments care little about pleasing small minorities.
- Tim Tyler
@Tim - Behold! The land Non Sequiters has a new king!
- Matthew DeVries
That was a reply to the two comments immediately preceding it.
- Tim Tyler
Tim, marketing a product and recruiting talent should not be the same thing. One can market a product primarily to men or women, but one should not discriminate in who they hire to create said product.
- joey
@Jenna In my experience "he/she is aggressive" is often an excuse by people who can't stand up for themselves. Daniel is right.
- Nick Lothian
++jenna Have you had the 1:1s where you've been asked to tone down your opinions because people get the wrong idea? What idea would that be, I sometimes wonder. Anyway, back on topic, I am far from a prude and I enjoy taking my boyfriends out for lap dances when the mood strikes but this? Not even close to being ok. A professional event should remain professional.
- EricaJoy
Let us also not forget that Yahoo is a publicly traded company that has shareholders to answer to. You really think shareholders want to be paying for lap dances? Doubtful.
- EricaJoy
As for the "booth babe" reference... just remember that judging anyone on appearance can quickly render one a fool. Don't assume. There are a lot of women in tech (growing?) and those women attending an event that are working a booth is no indication they were hired just as bait for men. Ask about the product, and based on the answer -- remember that the vendor cared or didn't care about how they spent marketing dollars.... Yes, a trade show floor is the perfect Roddenberry social fabric encapsulation ;-)
- Jay Cuthrell
Alternatively: print up an official "You wasted my time with your offensive and sexist use of unscripted talent on your booth -- Sincerely, A no longer potential customer" as needed... booth babes and booth boys apply
- Jay Cuthrell
I expect Yahoo shareholders appreciate the value of holding and pulling in young male developers by using sexual stimuli - but don't much care for the resulting international attention.
- Tim Tyler
Re: hiring discrimination - let's not forget that this was a hack day, not a job interview. If they had paid for a creche instead, would we see a similar outcry about discrimination in favour of women?
- Tim Tyler
I am an so call 'male developer' here in Taiwan. In my point of view, I felt that comments about the 'sexual' and 'hr to blame' note should be some kind of misunderstand. I think the hack day@tw is hosted like big event and its a contest between hackers.,In big contest, people do have something temporary transfer/release their tension. Take superball for example, half-time show is one...
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- marx