ɥsıuɐʎɹ › Likes

You travel a lot... what do you do Mary? - SAM

Tell our mutual friends I say O HAI! - josh neff, geek at large

I am a librarian. More specifically I am the head of access & delivery services at North Carolina State University's Libraries. I travel mostly to give presentations at conferences. - Mary Carmen

I love Atlanta..what you doing there? - jamar78

yay! :) - holly

I am attending and presenting on merging service points at the first annual Access Services Conference. WOOT! - Mary Carmen

Cool. What do present at said conferences... (forgive me... i'm not career oriented... I just find what other people do fascinating) - SAM

Doh... you type faster than I question. - SAM

What's a merging service point? Computer interface? - SAM

My department used to have several service desks (where patrons could get assistance with a variety of library services). We merged two units and took on an additional lending service. I am presenting about the merger process: the prep, the training, the reality, lessons learned, and future plans. - Mary Carmen

Ah cool... Thanks for indulging me. :) - SAM

Last week I presented at a conference in Missouri on how to deal with personnel and performance issues. I tend to write and speak about several different topics. - Mary Carmen

Any time. Thank you for asking! :-) - Mary Carmen

Mary Carmen travels the country, telling the library world how to kick Access Services ass and take names :) - holly

How did they choose you to speak about the personnel and performance issues? - SAM

:) --> holly - SAM

I pitch the topic and they select. I manage a dept of 34 people so.....I have some experience with performance management. ;-) - Mary Carmen

Cool and there is this library circuit awaiting good content? - SAM

yeah, i like to think so. I thought last week's preso went extraordinarily well, but maybe people who were there can speak to it, as I may be baised ;-) - Mary Carmen

Her presentation last week as excellent! - josh neff, geek at large

Very cool. - SAM

beer is SO good - Mary Carmen

Had me some Negro Modelo this evening... what's your flavor? - SAM

Well I love Belgian beer. My fave is Westveleteren. Tonight I drank Terrapin's Big Hoppy Monster. I also love Bell's Two Hearted Ale, Terrapin's Wake & Bake and Victory's Golden Monkey. - Mary Carmen

Good names... not familiar with most but "Big Hoppy Monster" sounds awesome... my beer making gear has been in storage while we're under construction, but I'll put you at top of the list for a "care package" next fall when we pull out the gear. - SAM

YAYAYAY!!!!!!! - Mary Carmen

Will need address and reminder around August-ish... :) - SAM

Absolutely! - Mary Carmen

*hands Holly some candy* - josh neff, geek at large

yay candy! - holly

I'm wearing my "peace, love, and snails" shirt designed by Aden. - LB - not a snow bunneh

on my trip to Monterey, I discovered that the "Peace, Love, [xxxx]" is a tourist gimmick. I saw a "Peace, Love, Monterey" and a "Peace, Love, Ocean" one at their aquarium. lol we decided the company is likely called Peace, Love, Etc. Inc. :D - holly

I should take one in my Blackbeard's Tattoo Parlor shirt, about which we discovered the same thing on that trip. Also, this is a really cute picture of you. - Jàson Puçkett

I love the expression on your face in this picture. - DJF

thanks, guys :) - holly from iPhone

I like that shirt. And the person wearing it. - cecily

Thanks! I'm sporting the half-Neff. - s t e v e

You, sir, are quite the librarian. (that's a compliment, btw) :) - holly

Hey dude! - Derrick

Sharp dressed man. - Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)

Pal, you wear all of that much better than I do. I think I should start wearing the full-Lawson. - josh neff, geek at large

oh man. Josh is going full-Lawson. - holly

I clearly *liked* this thread far too soon. - Imitation lris

:D - s t e v e

I keep remembering this ad that used to play on the radio growing up. "Need to know how to get gum out of your hair? Call the Reference Desk at your Local Library!" then it had a librarian, telling someone on the phone how to use peanut butter to get out the gum. So weird. - anna sauce

but how do you get peanut butter out of your hair? - DJF

A student just sat down next to me to ask a question. She started in, then saw this screen and said "...Is that you...right now?" - s t e v e

Ooh, ooh, refer me something. - Mistletoe Glen

You're almost famous, Steve! Just another inch of hair and you'll be rocking the full John Oliver: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_32W12S... - Daniel J. Pritchett

well, he's also missing the sexy british accent. - DJF

Sweater vests are awesome. Also, Steve is awesome. Therefore, this is a thread of extreme awesomeness! - ÉllbeeÇee

HI Steve! I had that same experience this morning with a student who came into my office while I was uploading my picture of the day. I am not wearing a sweater vest, though. - Sarah G.

Hi Steve! - tab thinks you're awesome

Hi everybody! - s t e v e

Dude, Steve is using a Dell... - Joe

Nice office! Where you stay? NY, LA, RM, MI, SA, ND, OK, AN? :) - Alessandro Marocchini

He is in CO. - Joe

It ain't easy being a gangster. But someone has to. :) - Danny Minick

You dress better than 87% of the librarians at MPOW. - cecily

Better than 100% of the male ones. - cecily

LOL @ Cecily. - Derrick

Ha! And Joe, you can't see the Mac because it was taking the picture. - s t e v e

sucker for a sweater vest -----> - Ayşe E.

w00t! Congrats! - CAJ, somewhere else

You look great. Congrats! - Andre P. Siregar from iPod

looking great! congrats - (jeff)isageek

Thanks everyone! The pics are about 2 months apart. The first is my nephew's Christening on June 7th the second one is from this morning. - Mary Carmen

Nice job Mary. Keep it up.....or down! - Steve

Good work. :) - Wirehead

Wow! Congrats. You look a lot younger now. :) - Rochelle

really, Rochelle? Thanks! - Mary Carmen

Mary, you look awesome. I'm inspired. - Derrick

well on your way, nice work! - Nathan Chase

omg, Mary. Really a big different. You look great. - Jàson Puçkett

Way to go! - LB - not a snow bunneh

Cute baby!! Also, you look great... excellent job on dropping the weight, lady! - Yolanda

Wow Congratulations! - Jeff P. Henderson

when i was losing weight that was my experience, as well. lookin' good! - Joe Silence

:) Pretty pretty MC! - Michael Porter

fabulous stuff! and looking great! - αnnα vαȵ scoyoç

yay - Caroline

Nicely done. - Archangel ωαřмaiden

hey beautiful! - Jill Jarrell

wow! - βℜ∀ñÐi

You are so lovely!!! - Jezmynne Dene

Congratulations! Keep up the good work! :-) - Ladybug Heather

To me, you look pretty awesome in both pics. The important question is: How do you feel? - Slappy Line

I feel great! - Mary Carmen

good job, :) - chaz2b

excellent - I know how hard it is! - BEX

Yeah! Good to you! - Daryoosh (داريوش)

Don't let up, you are doing GREAT!!!! - RAPatton from iPhone

Fabulous!! May I ask what you are doing? I'm in need of losing weight as well...but your results are outstanding! Do share :) - Becca

woo! - D0r0th34

Yay! - LB - not a snow bunneh

Most excellent. Who do I need to shove? What baked goods do I have to make? - Archangel ωαřмaiden

Does one have to be both a Shover AND a Maker? - Kårín Dalzĭel

Well, given that "Shover or Maker" might eliminate people who are both, are you suggesting "Shover and/or Maker?" I suppose that'd be easier than "Shover (insert appropriate Boolean modifier here) Maker." It's certainly a shorter URL. - Greg Schwartz

perfect!!! - marthalib

Shoving NOT Making? Making NOT Shoving? Oh, librarian humor! It is so entertaining! - laura x

Greg: I think we should form a committee to discuss this important issue. I'll reserve the conference room for a 3 hour virtual meeting to begin to discuss the possibilities. ;) - Kårín Dalzĭel

Note to self--update resume ....2009 LSW Maker .... now I sound like a good bottle of whiskey - Abigail

the Boolean OR would be very inclusive. I'm just saying. - marthalib

*begins crafting acceptance speech* - Imitation lris

You guys are making me giggle uncontrollably. - D0r0th34

I'll set up the wiki to keep track of the meeting minutes and the blog to communicate our vision internally and a separate one to communicate our vision externally. - John Dupuis

John - good idea. make sure to password the internal blog. Actually, we should probably make it so only one person can edit it so it stays consistent. same for the wiki. Otherwise there would be anarchy. - Kårín Dalzĭel

I'm shovering for the LSW! - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

Librarians AND (Shovers or Makers or (kick-ass AND (non-violent and/or non-crafty)) ;) - Rachel Walden

John--Fine, but to be a proper library society you also need a list, a website that is none of the above, and maybe something nobody's heard of--with different authorization rules for each. Then, when you have something to say, you preferentially create even another channel... - Walt Crawford

Don't forget the email chat lists wherein we can't actually say anything relating to LSW or the members thereof - Abigail

Are we going to have to come up with some deliberately provocative shoving and making? - John Dupuis

simonizing. - Marie likes mistletoe

This is beautiful. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Go Morgan! - Laura H.

She didn't study at all for this test, & it was supposed to be a difficult chapter. So, rock on, my princess! - josh neff, geek at large

That's awesome! - laura x

excellent - suelibrarian

WOW! Wish I had her math brains - congrats. - Mlibrarianus

Just my usual one: I want transparency in where the $$$ is going. I might not disagree with the fees if I knew, *but I wanna know*. Doesn't just apply to unconfs, either. - D0r0th34

Well, as a student who already has to dish out for a couple other conferences within two months of this, I might be hard-pressed to pay $150 AND more travel AND more hotel. That said, this is the event I think I would enjoy the most. - Librarienne

Also, speaking for self only: I can dig keynoters getting reimbursed expenses, but a keynoter who takes an honorarium for an unconf is being greedy IMO. I wouldn't do that; if I am asked and agree, all I want is expenses. And possibly not even that. - D0r0th34

Um, I'd rather pay zero... I am trying to get another free unconference set up in Denver for librarians interested in sci-tech issues (http://www.nuthingbut.net/2008...). I even thought of a catchy acronym last night, STELLA -- Science, Technology & Engineering Library Leaders in Action. How does that sound? Steve/Laura, would you want to take part? - Joe

It's a []camp, right? That means free in my book. - cecily

What Dorothea said. If I were asked to be a keynote speaker at an unconference, I might want to be reimbursed for expenses, but since I'd be taking part in the unconference as well, I wouldn't expect any more money than that. (Hear that? I'm a cheap keynote speaker!) - josh neff, geek at large

Hosting something at OCLC isn't as cheap as it would be at your local public library. It's an ALA event being held AT OCLC... not necessarily being sponsored by OCLC (with the donation of space and other stuff). - Julian

Julain:Then why TF did they decide to host it there? The point of unconferences is to be cheap/free, local, and unstructured. If you're flying to an unconference, you're either very dedicated or missing the point. - DJF from twhirl

This is another example of how large organizations seem unable to do things as well as people on the ground. They just fuck it all up because they simply cannot imagine things working differently. - josh neff, geek at large

I went to the BarCamp / LibraryCamp at OCLC back in August. One person who helped organize that is on the LITACamp organizing committee. I drove from Maryland back in August, but I don't think I'd be nearly as inclined to drive for LITACamp. It seems to be an unconference in theme and structure only. - Julian

DJF & Julian, it's certainly possible I don't understand the economics, but I would have thought OCLC would be happy to donate the space and market OCLC like crazy to participants. - s t e v e

I agree with Dorothea--where is the money going? Going to LITA how? What's LITA going to do with it besides feed people scones and pay two speakers? I've done a big annual program that people drive for at my library for $500--and that included a hefty speaker fee--If OCLC is donating the space, what do you need several thousand for? - Abigail

I'd only do a keynote at an unconference for expenses only if people were attending for a nominal fee. If the sponsoring org is doing it for a profit, I'd want a piece of the action. Seems like it also would have made more sense to tack something like this onto an already existing conference (LITA Forum, Code4Lib, Annual, etc.) so people don't have to travel all that way JUST for this. - Meredith

@neff - I'm working to organize an unconference (with Michelle Boule) within ALA for Annual (it's one of Jim Rettig's presidential initiatives). It's going to be free for people to attend, but it's costing ALA many thousands of dollars since we have to do it in the conference ctr where every little thing costs a mint. Still, we hope to show that it's possible to do well within a big org. - Meredith

Meredith, presumably if ALA wasn't eating the cost of the unconference you and Michelle would have made different choices, though. The ALA one seems to be more on the mark than LITA though: you don't need a big organization to run an unconference, so what value can the org provide? With ALA, they'll provide a convenient venue and food at no cost. With LITA, they provide...what? - s t e v e

OCLC rents out its (premier?) conference facility on a regular basis to groups. Most of them are NOT related to librarianship. In a area rich with corporate campuses, OCLC seems to have the best facilities. In this case, ALA is no different than Toyota. I should also add that when I went to OCLC back in August for the BarCamp, I had to pay a relatively small fee ($25). It covered some of the costs -- most notably lunch. Food service at the OCLC conference center MUST be run through OCLC directly. - Julian

Julian, OK, so why do it there? - s t e v e

Because it's OCLC (name recognition)? Because they have already hosted one of these things? - Julian

I bet I could put up our library to host the dang thing on the same day for free. We're already doing a podcamp: http://podcamphalifax.ca . No reason any other library, public or otherwise couldn't do it. - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

@farkas: what lawson said. :) - josh neff, geek at large

You're right, Steve, and when I saw the prices I sort of wished that we could have done it somewhere other than the McCormick Ctr. You definitely can do it for less when you're doing it outside of an org, but even with that, I can almost guarantee that LITA is making a profit from this. - Meredith

What's particularly frustrating to me is that BIGWIG has shown that you can do unconference-y stuff within a large organization & have it be incredibly successful & popular. It seems like LITA looks at BIGWIG & only sees dollar signs. - josh neff, geek at large

It seems a bit expensive but I would pay if it helps cover basic costs. But maybe they shouldn't be calling it a camp or unconference... - Anna Lynn M.

I'd say all of the ALA divisions only see dollar signs. I'm on the virtual conference committee for ACRL's National Conference, and have been very disappointed by how much they are charging people to participate virtually. I spent my $250 on ALA, LITA and ACRL and there's very little I get for what to me is a huge chunk of money. - Meredith

Oh, there's a story here that I just can't tell quite yet. Suffice it to say this: BIGWIG wrote the initial plan for this thing, where it was ORIGINALLY going to be two-track, for techies and non-techs to get together and do project-based learning in an unconference type setting. Would have _rocked_. LITA Board shot it down. That was 2 years ago, and they are JUST NOW getting this thing going. I'm really, really disappointed in the way this got done, overall. - Jason Griffey from twhirl

I was waiting for you to weigh in, Jason. That sucks... - Jenica

It's starting to sound like the only people that will be going to this are the people who think that events need to cost money. That is, the people who would benefit most from seeing how little money events do actually cost. - DJF

Yeah, thanks for the comment, Griffey. - s t e v e

I say that now...does that mean I am ahead of myself? - ♫Geek in the 410♫

That would be so cool, I don't dare let myself dream of that. - josh neff, geek at large

Man, in 20 years I hope to be retired! - Melissa Kiser

I'm counting on it, otherwise I threw in with the wrong crowd. You're going to help my political career, right? =P - Matt Hamilton

... I wasn't there. :( - D0r0th34

you are here now! - ♫Geek in the 410♫

Of course you were, Dorothea. You were in the Meebo room in the early days. - josh neff, geek at large

I say that *now* :) - awd

Like I said, LSW is totally going on my resume. If libraries don't like it, then I know some rich management consulting firms that would -- in spades. - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

Greg, it's certain that I will, as the LSW has been an important part of my life for the last year and a half. The question is whether that statement will have any resonance outside present company. For that to happen, I think we will need to look to find new ways to reach out and help more people gt stuff done. - s t e v e

a coworker of mine was bashing ALA and other similar assoc. i had my first chance to promote LSW! - βℜ∀ñÐi from twhirl

In 20 years, some new group of upstarts is going to be wishing we'd all just retire. So it goes. - laura x

You sir, assume that the world will still actually be here. ;) - Michael Porter

Excellent. - josh neff, geek at large

Proves they're semi-listening to me at least :) - Archangel ωαřмaiden

lol. I would love to see you teach! - RudĩϐЯaЯïan from twhirl

He gets at least 5 points extra for that, I'd say. - Yolanda

I would love to see you teach as well. Record yourself, for the common good! - Kårín Dalzĭel

Ha! Great student. - Laura H.

What was the ILLiad error? Mind telling the guy that might fix it? :-P - Jason Griffey from twhirl

@Jason - not sure if it's an ILLiad error or user error - he'll come visit my office adn we'll see what he was doing - he didn't describe in email. When I find out, you'll be first to know :) - Archangel ωαřмaiden

@WarMaiden: Will he be wearing pants? - Betsy (bentley) Vera

@bentley - ooh, unknown! - Archangel ωαřмaiden

too bad he isn't really trainerboi - Katy S

10 points if he's cute - mjc

I'' let you all know when he makes it in. (@Katy - I've offered to proof trainerboi's papers for him :) ) - Archangel ωαřмaiden

@WarMaiden: You need to recreate all the original variables, after all. - Betsy (bentley) Vera

Hey, pants/no-pants is an important factor to consider, right? - Archangel ωαřмaiden

creating and running your own server would be cool - Sir Shuping

Mashups. I understand the generals of APIs and mashing them up, I just don't really get how to do it in practice. - josh neff, geek at large

I would be so very on board with this. Something on media production would appeal to me, but anything in the lines being discussed sounds great. - Jàson Puçkett

Organizers can't answer that question. Prospective learners need to. For my part, I want the basics of writing database-backed webapps in PHP or Ruby. - D0r0th34

I was thinking something (perhaps several things) on using the *nix command line. - s t e v e

Dorothea, I agree. My question was poorly phrased: If we did this *what do you want to learn?* - s t e v e

Ooh, I like all the suggestions so far. Plus I'd like a "ask the experts your really dumb questions" session, or maybe just a virtual booth that's staffed for set hours. - laura x

Sounds like folks want a hardcore coding session. I'd volunteer to help out with an API explanation/demo/session using Python or PHP. - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

can I second the creating & running your own server? also, something on OS versions of LibGuides... - ~Courtney F.

It might be helpful to cover server installation of CMS's like Drupal & Joomla - Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock

oooh, I like W!cKeD's idea too....(I haven't had my caffeine yet...maybe I should come back when I have....) - ~Courtney F.

We may need to be clear about prereqs here, unless facilitators are willing to do srs groundwork with some ppl. Can't do a whole lot with an API unless you can program! - D0r0th34

sounds like everyone would need a skills assessment benchmark to attend. - royce

@dorothea I think I can explain basic REST if people have some preliminary reading (you have to know what http, xml and html are). I also think it would be reasonable (but not necessary) to suggest people have Python or Perl installed if they want to try it out fer real. (Python because you don't need a server). - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

Wouldn't it be possible to do a pre-session programming thing - maybe a self-paced tutorial or something. Some of us have programming, but old or in little bits and pieces (a little JavaScript, a little PHP, a whole lot of APL a whole lot of years ago) - and I would be willing to do the make-up to get to the API thing. - Candy Schwartz

I think a programming session before the api session would be good. That said, I don't think it's absolutely necessary. A simple "GET" request to an api is not *that* complicated to explain to someone with a basic understanding of the web (http, xml & html). - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

I was wondering if sessions like "get comfortable with PHP via the Flickr API" would make sense. I.e., use the specific subject of the session as a gateway into exploring programming concepts. (I don't know--I would be attending, not presenting at this theoretical online conference). - s t e v e

I think that would be a very reasonable thing, Steve. It covers the "I need a project before anything makes sense" angle. - D0r0th34

I think a PHP tutorial would be awesome. I am concerned about logistics. It's nicer to get your hands on code, and with PHP, you really need access to a server (even a database server) to make it work well. Versions matter as well and it would be hard to ensure that everyone has a most-recent copy, configured exactly the same as everyone else. - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

How about "via the WorldCat API" - that would be cool and immediately puttable to use - but maybe it's too hard to begin with - like Steve, I would be attending not presenting. - Candy Schwartz

Two-part tutorial, Ryan? First installfest, then tutorial. - D0r0th34

I don't know the first thing about APIs, but I'd sign up for this line-up in a heartbeat, even if all I learned was what I'm asking for when I ask other people to do stuff for me. - Imitation lris

Ok. That works. We'll need to include the XML modules as well if we want to actually do something with the api. cUrl probably makes sense too for real world use, except it begins to make things complicated. (explaining security is like drilling for brains -- it's gonna hurt.) - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

And while I'm at it, I think a basic design course (not web design -- design principles & techniques) is essential. - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

I think the security thing is a follow-on tutorial. I would take it! I know what XSS is, but not how to prevent it. - D0r0th34

PHP, API, some other code-y stuff...maybe some brush up on your xml, html etc...had to learn the basics but no one makes me do this stuff regularly and I've lost most of what I learned. Also--something with SQL servers would be fun. - Abigail

Please do this, whatever format it takes. I'd *travel* to attend. Well, apart from that money stuff I'd need to pay for it.I'd really want a project to work on and to really take a couple of hours to gt an indepth understanding. - Kathryn says love n peace

OooOoooo I know! I want John Blyberg to explain to us how to take Open Social back to our own libraries and put it to best use. Maybe doing an install over a Koha database containing dummy patron/item records so that we get to understand how the structure works.... - Kathryn says love n peace

We're looking at ways to do this online, Kathryn. - D0r0th34

Wow, so many great ideas here. API stuff really appeals to me. Understand the ideas, but not the nitty gritty of "how to". Just getting started working with Joomla, so interesting/useful addons to joomla/drupal would also be very interesting. - pollyalida

I second the *nix command line tutorial. I'd also be interested in some AJAX and APIs. I've been toolin' around with Joomla for a couple years so it'd be interesting to see what others are doing. - jönαthaη from Alert Thingy

I would just like to give props to Ryan. From my LSW Room exchanges with him, I am sure he could come up with a way to explain some PHP to *anyone* without making them feel stupid in the process. As Iris said, some will be coming to learn how to do something; some just to learn a bit more about how to talk about something they want done. Both would be invaluable. - laura x

Publishing podcasts. I can create a sound file and I can blog, but I don't have a clue about merging the two. - Deborah Fitchett

practical PHP and advanced XML pls. Oh and I'd be happy to volunteer to teach on audio production/editing. I used to do radio. - Fiona Bradley

You must know a different group of "Legalize Pot" people than I do. - Greg Schwartz

I think most people in the biblioblogosylum argue a little too hard, including me. Opponents of gaming in libraries tend to argue too hard as well, IMO. - josh neff, geek at large

You mean you don't sympathize with the plight of those suffering from the government's organized fascist agenda to keep us from wearing hemp pants? - Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock

"You know, George Washington grew hemp..." SHUT UP! - Sarah G.

Courtesy of IMDB, I offer the following classic scene from Dazed and Confused: "Behind every good man there is a woman, and that woman was Martha Washington, man, and everyday George would come home, she would have a big fat bowl waiting for him, man, when he'd come in the door, man, she was a hip, hip, hip lady, man." - Greg Schwartz

Greg FTW - Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock

You know, George Washington played video games at his local library. - josh neff, geek at large

Yeah, where are all the "Pot in Libraries" advocates anyway? (Let the riffing begin. I'll start: "That'd give new meaning to 'weeding the collection.'") - Greg Schwartz

I'll start the Facebook group. - Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock

Hmmmm...the Library Society of the Weed? - josh neff, geek at large

"what you do" = job? hobbies? day to day grind? - josh neff, geek at large

when "what you do" = job - Archangel ωαřмaiden

Ah. Then loving what you do isn't necessarily important. I mean, I love being a librarian. But if circumstances forced to take a different job, one I didn't love, in order to support myself and my loved ones, I'd do it and wouldn't bitch about it any more than I bitch about frustrations with my library work. (Well, maybe a little more.) "What I do" doesn't necessarily define "who I am" and "what I love." - josh neff, geek at large

I tend to agree more with Mr. Neff on this one. It's far more important to have appropriate shelter and sustenance for your loved ones. - Greg Schwartz

It's worth quite a bit. But I agree with Josh as well. Personally, I'm looking more for inner peace and tranquility than happiness. I think once I get to that point, the happiness in what I do will be easier. Although I really do love my actual job. Just not feeling the love for my work environment. -

While Josh & Greg have a very good point - food & shelter for loved ones is very important - If you're miserable in your job, you'll be miserable at home too. So I think that it might be more important to love what you do, even if it means you have to take a second, less loved, job or something like that to feed/shelter yourself. - ~Courtney F.

If I were single and without kids, I'd be an epic slacker. I love only those things that no one will pay me to do. - Jere

provide for loved ones 1st, enjoy life 2nd - clarke thomas

worth a little less salary, worth a more balanced & healthy life, worth others seeing that you have conviction about your work. - Rochelle Rochelle

@Courtney I think there's a lot of space between love and misery. I'm pretty sure every job I've ever had was somewhere in between. - Greg Schwartz

was thinking about this this morning, since the "director" question has come up again. partly, i feel like i should look for work where i'll be much better compensated, but that's a huge jump and would take away a lot from my life--make me a more public person. i'm just not ready for that, even though i'm capable. - Rochelle Rochelle

What Greg said. Hell, even working fast food wasn't so soul-killing that I wouldn't do it again if I absolutely had to. - josh neff, geek at large

re: loved ones - it's just me, so I'm not dragging anyone else into poverty :) Is just something I've been thinking about a lot lately with the many things life throws at me. - Archangel ωαřмaiden

Greg - true, there is a *lot* of space between love and misery. And if, like Aden, you like your job because it frees you up to do what you truly love & want to do, then that's cool. I'm just not a fan of people staying in a job they're *miserable* at just because it pays the bills. - ~Courtney F.

Having *been* "Mr. Unhappy at Work" and seeing how it bled over into home life -- I now know: "don't be unhappy at work just to make ends meet" - you (and your Signifiant Others) are better off trimming back / stopping spending and adjusting life focii "downward" (not in a negative sense) to be able to survive on less income - awd

Having a job you hate bleeds all over the rest of your life, too. In fact, I think loving what you do is worth almost anything. - ha3rvey (Ho)^3

But as Greg said, there's a vast continuum between "what you love" and "what you hate." Nobody is saying you should do what you hate. But sometimes in life, by necessity, we have to do "what we don't totally love" in order to survive. If I really got paid for what I loved, I'd get paid to read comics, watch movies, play RPGs and have sex. And then I'd be expected to keep regular hours and do this stuff on demand. - josh neff, geek at large

I dont mind sucky jobs much - I've flipped burgers, worked ice cream, and am about to start 2nd job at a gym (3rd shift). My main guiding principle has been to never hate my job so much I prayed to get hit by a bus (I did when I was in sales), just wondering if my principle is flexible. - Archangel ωαřмaiden

To me, it's everything. I have a really low tolerance for unhappiness, and I'm good at quitting things. Dunno, somehow it works out. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

great thread with everyone making lots of valid points. i think the job I hated the most was working as a maintenance man for the apt. complex I lived in. The owner pulled us all to put vinyl siding on his HUGE house in the middle of winter. It was so cold and snow everywhere. You have not truly hated a job until you have had to climb scaffolding in January and keep a fire in a drum just to keep from freezing your naughty bits off. I disliked being a telemarketer as well. U know U want a Visa Platinum.... - Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock

If you do what everyone else wants to do and can do, nobody's gonna want to pay you for it. Half of the "for pay" bit is being willing to do what others will not do. The other half is being able to do what others cannot do. If you are lucky enough to be in that latter category, then you have a little more freedom to decide if you can do what you love rather than love what you do. In short, stay in school kids! :) - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

I moved across the world and away from my spouse to take my current job. I absolutely love it but it comes at a cost - being away. So there are compromises to be made and sometimes the job will win, and other times other things will win out. - Fiona Bradley

Hm, good comments, esp @Ryan's point. @dwfree - I of course don't expect to be happy 100% of the time. it's called 'work,' after all. But if you are *in* a spot where you are literally honest-to-goodness thrilled to do your job 98.9% of the time, is it worth something as simple as money to leave that sort of job satisfaction? (I realize everyone has a different answer for this) - Archangel ωαřмaiden

great thread. I think attitudes about this vary greatly. I think finding a good job is a lot like a marriage, in a less-emotionally-intense way. Some folks think they deserve constant and complete happiness in a marriage or a job; they are bound to be disappointed and would be better off scaling back their expectations. Others define "happiness" in a different way. I think the answer to this question depends a lot on what you mean by "being happy." - Nathan Rein

Oh, well, that's a different question altogether. If I loved my job and was offered more money (that I didn't absolutely need) to work elsewhere, it'd have to be a) a hell of a lot of money or b) a really, really good opportunity that I had a fair shot at also loving. - Greg Schwartz

@Nathan - good point. I should have clarified - when I ask if I'm happy, what I really mean is: Do I feel I am contributing to something worthwhile greater than myself? When the pressure and demands increase, do I still feel my job is worthwhile? Is the work environment pleasant or at least not-awful? I didn't mean rainbows and pillowfarts happy, just job-happy. - Archangel ωαřмaiden

what Greg Schwartz said. Whenever I've considered leaving my current job, which I adore 98% of the time, my measure has mostly been: could I love the job I'm considering leaving it for. Usually the answer is "no" or "not as much," and I stay put. Loving my work and work situation is hugely important to me. - Sia Stewart

Not happy 100% of every day. Bad things happen, but the structure itself is sound and good. If it weren't, then I would have to change something. In my first job, I cried every day before I went to work (I taught science to poor kids). In retrospect, it was really helpful to have set a baseline. I know what I can and cannot take, and I know that I can move on. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

I'm with Greg mostly, and I agree to move from a job I like, the money would have to compensate for 1) the risk of hating or failing the new job 2) be enough to ensure that I could fill my non-work life with things I really, really, really love. There are other things to consider as well -- declining returns, for instance. As you do something for a long time, you begin to love it a little less each day. People need room to find new things to love. - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

Honestly? Sometimes I wish I was a little bit less involved in librarianship. I have a heavy workload and I stress out about it a lot, and I socialize mostly with librarians (both in person and online), and I even secretly lust after librarians (granted, only a few of them). I sometimes feel like an addict. It's love, but it's maybe not a healthy love. - Laura H.

So what it's worth, I guess, is what I end up paying, and sacrificing. Mostly, this feels like time. I think I spend a lot of my free alone time immersing myself in books or games because I simply need to shut off. - Laura H.

Laura - I feel that. With no social life, it's been easier for me to throw my self into Library Performance...but it gets old fast. - Archangel ωαřмaiden

Yeah, the "no social life" bit really helps with performance and focus -- but is also the path to burnout and o.t.j.r. - awd

"In the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex" by Nathaniel Philbrick. - josh neff, geek at large

do you have novelist NF? - Rochelle Rochelle

We don't! We've got NoveList & NoveList K-8. - josh neff, geek at large

'zat why you couldn't find philbrick book in novelist? ;-) - Rochelle Rochelle

Could be, Ms. Smartypants! - josh neff, geek at large

i'm just sayin'! - Rochelle Rochelle

Of course, the patron didn't tell me it was nonfiction until I was already deep into a NoveList search... - josh neff, geek at large