You realize how FF looked during the minutes after they released the realtime stream? :)
- Holger Eilhard
Holger: this is far worse. Why? Because it's all noise, it's not repurposeable (FriendFeed was all in public, so I could at least link to it).
- Robert Scoble
From the previews and posts I've seen it will be a great collaboration tool for small teams, but when waves get publicized the "signal to noise" ratio will be far too high. That said, anyone have an invite??? ;-)
- Chris Reichow
Agree on the whole. I always find these categories a little artificial: Really "Forrester-speak". :) I think the recommendations are the most interesting. I'd make a separate post out of that.
- Meryn Stol
You say it yourself: "What’s interesting isn’t this vision for the future, but what it holds in store for brands, " . I'd like these recommendations to be fleshed out with concrete first steps to take. Doesn't have to be more than links to relevant resources.
- Meryn Stol
Meryn The recommendations are fleshed out in the actual reports. Our clients (brands) have access to see them.
- Jeremiah Owyang
Hmm ok... Then I'll need to get the details elsewhere I guess. :)
- Meryn Stol
Interesting categorization of the development into eras. Any consideration to the impact of scale on the 5th era? Just as a recent example with Facebook, their format evolution was not well received by what is not an insignificant number of members, and yet the reality is - that change - negative impact not withstanding is not rolling back.
- Patrick Boegel
There will be a give and take between communities and brands. The thing is, Facebook doesn't have a competitive alternative that users could go to. In my report, we suggest that active communities could define specs for products, and bid MULTIPLE companies to build it.
- Jeremiah Owyang
I completely understand that Jeremiah, just wondering if the nature of scale impacted or perhaps better said impacts the thought process for very complex long term brand relationships, ie Health Insurance, Financial Services, a college/university choice, where consversation and user invovlement can be complicated. Very interested in the full report either way. Thx.
- Patrick Boegel
good stuff Jeremiah, enjoyed and some good thought provokers there for the future
- Richard Binhammer
Nice paper but really expensive for young people. $750 means $41 for page.
- Alp
Great information, understanding the future's potential is more important than ever on the social web.
- Maria Reyes-McDavis
Interesting, but very general and hard to apply. I see companies more as å provide of tools/stage for conversation, aka the gold rush mining vs selling tools
- Anders Dahlberg
Alp, Many of Forrester's clients are large brands who have a subscription. We're still sharing a great deal on this blog, and have given the report to bloggers to cover, so there's value to be had there.
- Jeremiah Owyang
Jeremiah (and the team), a great piece of work and, I imagine, a labour of both love and loathing at times! I have been very interested in this area as I have looked at the shift in skills to deliver social media activity changes from one of basic coding knowledge to much more human, interactive skills.
- Paul Fabretti
Fantastic article! I found it SO intriguing that I've even printed it out!
- J. D. Ebberly
"How Brands Should Prepare" is a great bit of information. Jeremiah, it would be nice (i'd be reading) if you expanded in future blog posts about the "How Brands Should Prepare".
- frank barry
That's likely to be a research report I'm thinking about writing Frank
- Jeremiah Owyang
Probably correct in assuming that most online social networks will neither spawn nor solidify to the point of being considered ‘affinity groups’ with the level of cohesion, unified budgetary authority or organized implementation capability of NGOs, churches, or employee aggregations. Even in the era of social commerce. I hope I’m wrong.
- A Mitchell
Great post, understanding the future's potential is more important than ever on the social web.
- Vlad Hrouda
I looked at at least two pages of every user who posted. I just started learning, so I bookmarked about 20 pages that I'll be coming back to. This was nice, thanks!
- Ryan Massie
I love that Bret, Paul, and Kevin checked in. They probably are looking at their screens and asking "what do we do now?" how about ship some new features before Facebook overlords take you off to do bigger things?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I feel sorry for all you addicts. My use of it is purely social.
- Bruce Lewis
I do like FF and use it almost every day. Wouldn't it be great if FB either left it alone so we can continue to use it as "professionals," or somehow incorporate it into a more "mature" version of FB that didn't have all the annoying, time-wasting apps, games, etc. I'd much prefer a totally customizable FF "wall."
- Cathryn Hrudicka
I think FFundercats HO!!!!! would have worked but I'm here anyways.
- Jimminy Fuller
Actively fighting addiction to anything on a daily basis, but I'm still a FriendFeed fan! (I'd have been here sooner but I've been staring at Phoebe Cates pics for longer than I realized.)
- Mark "DerBingle" J
Thank you Robert Scoble to be here. :) BTW is this looks interesting for FF replacement? : http://streamy.com/ ? May be... I'll try it to see. :)
- Claude LaFrenière
Why should I? Whats in it for me? You doing some sort of survey of people to send out the police to do a "Safety Check" on when the site is shutdown?
- Santa CW™
here. anecdote: a friend of mine just signed up for FF this evening. apparently the FriendFeed hype of the last 24 hours pushed him over the top. leaves me wondering whether FF has actually gained users today?it would be a crafty way of marketing the service. I'll wake up tomorrow to discover that there was a problem with the paperwork and the FriendFeed team have had a change of heart.
- JSLeFanu
from BuddyFeed
Count me in even though I was just starting to get hooked. I guess it's time to find a rehab and get all sobered up until the next relapse with some other new addiction. Isn't life grand?
- Usman Bashir
oh hey, look, the added an "add comment" link to the end of the comment list. Huzzah!
- Brett Kelly
from iPhone
++Jay. I was going to do the same thing yesterday but I didn't want to pay the money.
- David Cook
David -- this was a $9.95 session but you can get them for $7.95 and there are also 25% off coupons if you do online check-in prior to your Delta flight. That's an incentive for folks to use that service and offload kiosk use at the terminals. Very savvy marketing by the folks at GoGo and Delta combined.
- Jay Cuthrell
well, it's 12:12 a.m. and I'm perusing FF from my iPhone via BuddyFeed before turning in. so yeah, I guess I count. "Here!" (raises hand)
- Don Faulkner
from BuddyFeed
I recommend FF to some of my clients, and there are some companies and nonprofits with presences here—not like Twitter, but I'll be curious how that will be affected when FB takes over more. Most have FB fan pages, groups and/or causes, too.
- Cathryn Hrudicka
Yeah, me too. I just saw the request to have a comment link at the bottom of the comments from one of your friends just yesterday and here it is. I'd say they are listening. Thanks FF.
- Keith Rowland
И так чятег, пока Скобл не поговорит с нами представителями СовиетФрендфидика, все мои записи теперь можно читать в этом тредике. Пользуясь случае передаю Парню Бухайту и его команде большой привет, в связи с тем что [He can has sleep naw].
- ideali
превед кетаец! давай сегодня сделаем тебя счастливым!
- Махатма Бугоганди
точно! поэт, пародист, переводчик. известный блоггер.
- Махатма Бугоганди
я вчера был в издательстве, с меня сведения об авторе просят. давайте, говорят, напишем, где учился, что генеральный директор. и что известный блоггер.
- Махатма Бугоганди
а можно получить профессию известного блоггера? какие экзамены сдавать надо? какую специализацию лучше выбрать - микроблоггинг или аудиоподкастинг?
- Махатма Бугоганди
Один чувак пришол в чятег и говорит я известный блоггер кто тут тру на первый второй рассчитайсь. А ему говорят чувак у тебя сертификат есть что ты известный блоггер? Вот иди Зайке экзамен сдай потом приходи. А Зайка стоит такой с топором и улыбается. Щас думает счастливым его сделаю.
- Махатма Бугоганди
Я потерял интерес в данный момент. Я буду скрывать, как и любой другой. Это хромой, что вы захватили этот. Пивные правила. Спокойной ночи. :-)
- Matthew Horton
More than a friend of FriendFeed, was starting to use it as a full lifestreaming platform and loved it. It's made a whole lot of other sites make sense.
- achean
Hi, I'm Bette... I don't know if I'm an addict, but I can't stay away... I keep checking, just to see if something's new... and I cry if I get no responses to a post. Is that addictive behavior? :D
- Bette Cooper
Yup, I have blocked all the impersonators now. You will still see them, but I don't see them and they no longer can comment on any of my items.
- Robert Scoble
@scobleizer As far as I can see you have blocked not only the impersonators (who renamed themselves back the moment they found out you have a problem with this) but most of the folks who chatted there.
- Махатма Бугоганди
@meatreach yes, see next thread. Scobble becomes anti-Russian.
- Never Impersonate You
Maxatma: well, that's just too bad. I speak English. Sorry. People who don't speak English really don't have any business commenting on one of my items, except in rare cases.
- Robert Scoble
Why you, Robert Scoble, don't block users from Spain or Italy? China or arabic countries? Those users that comments on non-English languages?
- Never Impersonate You
@Robert, in fact they do speak English. But they also do make fun of Friendfeed and everything that's going on there. You can block them or take part in this fun. ;)
- Махатма Бугоганди
I prefer FF over twitter and facebook, but all my friends are on twitter and/or facebook. Maybe facebook will get it right this time now that it has acquired FF. If they simplify it a bit more without removing functionality. Then I would spend a bit more time on FB. Lets hope all goes well with the merger. If not I'm jumping ship and going over to Google Wave. oh wait, I'm going to go with Google Wave regardless! ;-)
- Captain Jack
Bu arada Russian friends Turkiye'ye selamlar gonderiyor.
- ideali
@scobleizer i can speak english and i beg you to remove bann from all russian friendfeeders, because we are all from it-community, working in internet companies and we came with peace, you asked for feedback from friendfeed addicts — we show you how really it is being frf addicts, we change names, we chat, we making things that are not serious. Why so serious? Unlock people, they are not bots, they just playing the game of real addicts and have fun. Common.
- ideali
shaun: I started this post to demonstrate that a lot of us are still here and aren't likely to leave. At least not quickly. So, life goes on after FriendFeed gets acquired by Facebook. Point proved.
- Robert Scoble
Robert He says ; Our Russian friends say to hello to Turkey
- Osman Üngür
ideali: have them send email to scobleizer@gmail.com and I'll unblock anyone who says they weren't impersonating me.
- Robert Scoble
Hector: good morning! I need coffee.
- Robert Scoble
@robert yes they (we will) stay here, I think tat the migration process will take time and after reading @Paul Bucheit, I think that what we all are trying to get even if we don't say it explicitly is to preserve a kind of intimacy (beeing a part of the Huge faceBook community) don't mean that FF community will preserve their intimacy, why should a community be a plan one, (let imagine a community as a set of sub-community) that all.
- abdellah
Wow!! So many likes and comments; is it a record Rob?
- میر «عرفان» موسوی
@scobleizer thank you, for understanding. be cool, guys we just want have fun here a little. Take care.
- ideali
@Robert RE "I have enough noise in my life. I don't need to have more" - isn't it a lot of noise having 26K subscriptions and 46K subscribers on your frf account? I'm kind of surprised - you create a community that large around yourself, yet when you see a new and unusual activity you just block it right away.
- Махатма Бугоганди
@Robert, patience? Who's talking about patience? It's about curiosity, not patience. When something strange and unusual happens around you, you can either try to stop it or try to see what it can develop into. You choose to stop - and it stopped. Well, not stopped - just moved to some other place. And do you really know what it was and what it was about to bring you?
- Махатма Бугоганди
I'm here all the way from South Africa! I dig this service and I'm not quite ready to give it up. Regardless of the news about the acquisition, this remains an awesome service.
- Paul Jacobson
I'm new to ff but find more valuable information here than anywhere else!
- Janet Crance
I don't know how I rate my addiction relative to others, but I shared Hitler's reaction upon hearing the acquisition news (despite happiness for Paul and Bret)
- Chris Duffy
I'm sure this is part of Scoble's plot to poll all the people who really read his posts, and unfollow the rest. So I raise my hand.
- Shivanand Velmurugan
Just a wannabe. Not an addict (yet).
- Carole Hicks
It might also be a way for me to filter down my "following" count (diff (my followers, scoble)) are the only people I really need to follow. Those that scoble follows, I can safely unfollow and use Scoble as my social media filter :)
- Shivanand Velmurugan
pardon the arrogance but it really sucks this great forum of sharing will turn into a myspace humdrum. Now I have to find another SM where first adopters and well informed techies won't haft to compete with general "noise"
- earl wallace
Well, here's a comment I can later delete and rob the owner of 1500!
- Matthew DeVries
I just mention the 1500 mark since it was such an iconic query to see... that and the 500 Likes club of FF posts. It's pretty exclusive stuff... but it's also sobering to note that the subject matter required to get to these levels isn't always a uniform mix of cares/concerns.
- Jay Cuthrell
When I heard the FaceBook news, I tried to quit FriendFeed and I couldn't... I'M HOOKED
- The Web's Wendell Wittler
i clicked the "1488 more comments" and my computer nearly exploded. and yes, i am using an amiga 500.
- jack
Now that I have instructions (thanks LouisGray) and figured out my Bookmarklet! I am LOVING the ease of use! addict - not quite...
- Robyn Hawk
Actually, I lied. I am not a die-hard friendfeed fan. I desperately want to be but have just not been able to get into a good "feeding" rhythm. Maybe I need to add some more friends
- Anant Gairola
I don't need to be addict. I'm just here, everyday, absorbing so many geeky info :D There's no place like FF
- Lysender
I'm still with ya, Robert. Whatever FB paid for FF, it wasn't enough!
- Donald C. Lindsay
New here, but learning. Tips for best use?
- Barbara Langham
@bdlangam From my perspective the #1 tip in this category is: Explore and define "best use" for yourself. Despite potential "finishing" impression of some productive consolidations in this collective-collaborative cognition space, the emergent #cognosphere is still WAY too nascent to assert anything other than initial impressions. March to the beat of your own drum; build your own...
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- michael silverton
yeah sorry, late. was at Shambhala Music Festival, I know tardy, sorry...
- sofarsoShawn
I'm getting hooked, still figuring it all out
- Michele McGraw
I think I do. Not enough contacts to make a impression.
- Michael Schlag
@Liz. Leave your own individual post at this link http://friendfeed.com/friendf... with your thoughts about the acquisition and why you want FriendFeed management to speak up and make us feel more comfortable about the transition we're al about to go through.
- Brad Williamson
Thanks! Yeah, this was a fun photo shoot. I got to fool around with new equipment and a patient, wonderful friend. And a bottle of wine.
- Gregg Le Blanc
Ok, Twitter is design retarded. Why do they make the content block centered on the page but only give you the option to put a background in that's left aligned??? It makes a good design nearly impossible because you don't know what the user's resolution will be. If they allowed you to center the background image you could make cool backgrounds...
... that would reveal themselves around the main content as the browser was resized. As it is now, my client is saying they can't see anything because they're not using a browser on a decent sized monitor even though I used a standard template for the object placement. It would be so easy for Twitter to just offer that one tiny option to center your background image.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Steven had me try Twitter when it first came out. I didn't tweet after three days.
- Joel Robert Perez
I guess I'm going to have to make an ugly tiling background (they want photos in it) ugh.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
thats the nature of design, any1 can paint a pretty picture, design is the art of applying that picture to a situation, ur right though, its difficult
- echostreamer
But the way Twitter has it set up it's pretty much impossible... The hardest part of web design is trying to make something that looks good at different resolutions. But in most situations you at least have control over where elements are going to appear on the page. Twitter basically forces you into a one-win scenario when they could easily offer an option to open up a whole world of...
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- Fa La La La Lindsay
good point, ive just accepted sites design negligence. i usuallly resize /save/upload my pics 6 or more times before i'm happy with them. also your point is 1 reason i mainly use friend feed
- echostreamer
I used a standard template for the first design and it looks fine on 1280x1024 but I will have to use the template for 1024x768 I guess.... so much smaller...
- Fa La La La Lindsay
i try to get the biggest pic possible that sites will allow my to upload, so i spend a lot of time dealing with those issues. maybe design your own site that you an make perfect and use social networks to redirect to the content on your site. then u can really master the art of design and have everything exactly how you want it, just a thought
- echostreamer
I'm with you. Now I design Twitter backgrounds for an HD screen (1920x1080), but I make sure it looks okay when its shifted to 1024x768. A centering option would make it so much easier.
- Dennis O'Neil
@Echo Streamer - we already have a website... this is for Twitter... my client wants a presence there... and it needs to look nice and reflect the design of the website. I can't just ignore it since it's the whole point of the project.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
I'm with you, just finished doing two backgrounds yesterday and it sucks because at 1024x768 there's not enough space to use around the content box. Getting information across only becomes viable at 1280x800 upwards. Also, not being able to center the image around the content means that it is necessary to create backgrounds up to HD size so that you can accommodate everybody's resolution. Serious Twitter FAIL!
- Paul OFlaherty
Thinking about starting an online protest site to get them to add that feature!
- Fa La La La Lindsay
You mean people actually use twitter on the website?
- dthree
People find people/organizations/businesses to follow on the website... from a marketing perspective it's very important what your page there looks like.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
that's funny. you put the answer before the question!
- Mistletoe Glen
Well, the question was mainly "how do I get around Twitter's retarded left-alignment of the background and come up with something that looks good at different resolutions?" I guess I didn't ask directly though!
- Fa La La La Lindsay
I think that works really well, Lindsay! It degrades nicely at smaller resolutions. Agree, though, Twitter could stand a lot of improvement on background customization.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Bergmonch’s Folding Bike Bag - The Folding Bike Bag by Bergmonch is a combination of a backpack and downhill bicycle. It sounds rather heavy at 9.5kg, but boasts a folding mechanism that keeps it small and handy as you tote it on your back. It takes only two minutes to open it and convert it to a bike. Instead of just walking down hill the...
Glad to see mindmapping getting some "ink" again. Great stuff.
- Steve Rubel
This is something I've wanted to learn more about, so I'm glad to have this video intro.
- Mark Traphagen
Looks cool. I've used FreeMind, which is free, for a couple years now, but I like how this app is integrated with the Web. Nice stuff.
- Craig Villamor
I've been using NovaMind, haven't gotten in the habit of using religiously but when I do, it does really help to put thoughts down. Is definitely a good place to think before Powerpoint as Michael outlined.
- Lou Paglia
I started using Mind Manager to layout Google AdWords PPC campaigns where I work, but very quickly saw many other uses for it.
- Mark Traphagen
Curio's also neat, it has mind mapping (not as in-depth as MindManager) but a ton of other stuff too - even project tracking! Great for organizing creative projects. Mac only. http://www.zengobi.com/product...
- invariant - farewell FF
he mentioned that software lays on top of mindmanager for project management. can we get some examples of the complimentary software?
- Scott Magdalein
I've used XMind but it has some limitations.. doesn't print well, for example...I'd like to see MindJet used in realtime presentations.. Have any links??
- Patty Seybold
Craig - MindManager is integrated with the web in several ways - embedded web browser, web services, RSS feeds, and more. For instance, you can drag and drop a google doc right onto your map and then edit the content inside MindManager while viewing your map. This lets you flush out your thinking and then reference it while writing. Very powerful combination.
- Michael Deutch
Patty, we have some recorded webinars on the Mindjet website where MindManager is used instead of PowerPoint. Check out the Jamie Nast webinar for instance: http://www.mindjet.com/about...
- Michael Deutch
Scott - Mindjet integrates with our own Gantt product (http://twurl.nl/q7epy7), Microsoft Project, or a variety of others. You can see some of the other project related partner solutions here: http://twurl.nl/ypvyii
- Michael Deutch
I LOVE this and have the perfect project to map this weekend. I have a focus issue and maybe I ought to use this software that has been sitting there feeling rejected for like 2 years, I think. I've attempted to use it about 3 times and freaked out and closed it. OK, I'm going to the video for help, wish me luck. Oh, I wonder if MindMaps can be published online?
- Sheree Motiska
Sheree: they can be, through a variety of methods.
- Robert Scoble
I got super amped on MM 2 years ago, used it every day for projects, then I kind of stopped. I found I did not return to the work that often and it would drift out. This is not a criticism, I just brainstorm on 3x5 cards faster now and then move to UI apps or whatever. But MM is definitely the best app. Even though we are in a web 2.x world, this workflow works best in desktop apps then pushed to web for collaboration. Hope I can slowly return to mapping in it again.
- Mark
Indeed, although with only 14 of the 54 oil producing nations increasing production (http://bit.ly/i6Gcz), it looks like Peak oil has been and gone!
- Tom Raftery
Are you an idea person? Have you tried MindManager? Here's a video of it in use: http://friendfeed.com/scoblei... I love it, best for critical thinking.
I constantly use MindManager for tons of maps and quick thoughts. There is a free online one too, with fewer features called Bubblous (I think)
- Chris Miller
I used to use MindManager and loved it. But at $350 it's way too expensive for my blood. I'm using PersonalBrain at the moment (http://www.thebrain.com/#-111)
- Craig Eddy
I love apps like this, but I've found I don't use it enough to buy a $300 app. Instead, I use the free version of Mindmeister whenever I actually need something similar.
- mrshl
Yeah, been using it for years. It's a great talk outliner and document writer. I can write an full length document (10-15 pages), from skeleton to final draft, in about 5-6 hours using MindManager when it would usually take days using Word. Have you seen the Web 2.0 collaborative mind mapping stuff available out there?
- Gregg Le Blanc
Great service. Hard to come by things like these on the web. Thanks Robert.
- Amir
from iPod
Mind mapping is fun. Mind Manager is a bit bloated but very powerful. I like that it has inking support.
- Rodfather
I'm still happy with FreeMind, occasionally exporting a map to Mindmeister if I need to share it on the web. And still waiting for a good reason to open my wallet and switch to MindManager.
- François Dongier
I prefer MIndmeister I found it more flexible
- manuela faggiana
nope go with http://www.xmind.net/ from sorceforge. It is open and social. Can embed in your blog dude, and you can share it people can mark it up. But actually, I am more into http://linoit.com/ cause it has scheduling, and I have stopped thinking that things have to have a line between them. You can do You tube, vimeo, rss feeds, try it i set one up for anyone to post to http://linoit.com/users...
- Robert Higgins
I recommend ConceptDRAW Office suite, which has excellent mindmap application
- Jacque
The MindManager Office integration (Word specifically) is really an amazing tool. You can import a HUGE Word doc into MindManager and deconstruct it quickly. The export creates documents that are a little stale, but using Word's "Select All Formatting Like This" command, it's easy to change. The brilliant thing is that when you look at the document in MindManager, you can move entire sections around and easily detect if you've been repeating yourself, or if sections of the document are missing.
- Gregg Le Blanc
I used it for years, and like it except for the memory consumption. Now, switched to a mac and it's nowhere near as good on the mac. Xmind on the Mac works just fine and it's FREE.
- Phil Calvin
Thank the lords of Kobol they got rid of the zombie accounts. I like getting followers that are actually interested. When I see someone follow with an even ratio of followers to followees in the 10's of thousands, I know they're a tool.
- Gregg Le Blanc
The Surface is so frickin' SWEET. I saw another Twitter app and holy moly blown away. There's going to be one at Gnomedex, too!! Woooooooohoo!
- Mona Nomura
A good deal, huh? # Features: Professional Flash Set - Soft Diffuser + Honey Comb + Conical Snoot + Barndoor + Mini Reflector + Globe Diffuser # Best for shooting under different environment
- Fa La La La Lindsay
from Bookmarklet
Google Has Done Bad Moves in the Past. Chrome OS is One of Them. - Thoughts on social media, the web and technology - jungleG - http://jungleg.com/2009...
Chrome is already gaining acceptance as a browser. If you want to upgrade it to something, I’d say keep it as a client running on top of something else. But introducing another OS when Android is still struggling sounds like a bad idea
- Jorge Escobar
from Bookmarklet
I'm not sure how Android is "struggling" with Motorola making "several" devices that run on it, as well as other major phone manufacturers delivering Android devices this year. Seems to me, it's off to a good start, especially since everyone I know that has a G1 absolutely loves their phone.
- Michael Koby
@Michael it is struggling in the sense that a lot of carriers have been reluctant or have had difficulty implementing it. T-Mobile's G3 may not see the light of day for 2009. And, by the way, I'm a G1 user and absolutely love it. My point with the post is the dual marketing of OS might hurt Google against the other big two guys, MS and Apple.
- Jorge Escobar
Jorge, Android was never designed to run on everything, only on largely-pocketable devices (to avoid tying it to cell phones). As such, it carries functionality that may be of little use in larger, desktop-centered installations. Hence the Chrome OS (which, btw., we haven't seen none of it yet, so go easy on the criticism-in-advance pedal), which p.r.e.s.u.m.a.b.l.y is better integrated...
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- ianf ⌘
Valid points, ianf, but let me counterpoint quickly. Windows and Windows Mobile. See a common word there? Why not make Android (the version we have now for cellphones) Android Mobile and Android for larger apps? Isn't an OS an OS no matter what hardware it runs? (I believe Sun was the initial proponent of this back in the 90's). Don't tell me Google can't make Android the OS for...
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- Jorge Escobar
It seems likely that the two groups within Google couldn't come to a common vision and decided to fight it out. Otherwise it's quite irrational.
- Todd Hoff
Jorge, Windows doesn't run clean or on ANYTHING, and Windows Mobile is just a brain dead attempt to port it down to far more mission-critical hardware than desktop ever was, ergo the comparison is moot. I don't know Android too well, so I'll stick to primarily philosophical and mercantile arguments... it may well be that Google decided it NEEDS to keep competition alive within the...
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- ianf ⌘
Another possible angle is that it's not a netbook OS only. They plan on embracing and extending other form factors and for that Linux is a better base. If you only want to produce a small form instant on browser base it's hard to see why android wouldn't work just fine.
- Todd Hoff
@ianf, I believe calling Windows Mobile "brain dead" is a bit of a stretch, specially knowing Redmond. I had a T-Mobile Dash (HTC Excalibur) and had nothing against the OS, more against the hardware. Plus Windows Mobile is coming with a new version that's supposed to be better/faster. Windows 7 is getting rave reviews, so watch out if we don't be surprised with a great WinMo.
- Jorge Escobar
@ianf, now the internal competition thing, I agree could be the case. But as a marketing move, again, this is dumb.
- Jorge Escobar
As a marketing move it only creates confusion in the marketplace and splits the brand. What works where? How do I develop for each? Where do I buy apps? Do my apps work cross Google? They will be on different bases with completely different release cycles and priorities for very similar needs. As a developer and a user I'm already confused. If I were MS and Apple I would exploit this confusion.
- Todd Hoff
when I hear Android as "thing for netbooks", it makes me smiling... Chrome OS is wise step in sense it will make blow in on netbooks kicking MS & all other closed-sourced crowd. Android is too much lean and mean for that kind of fight.
- A.T.
I think there is another, better example for comparison with the alleged Android/ Chrome OS function duality: it's the OSX Cocoa Touch for iPhone and iTouch devices. Right now they run the very same version of the OS, though the Touch, while sporting double onboard memory over the biggest iPhone 3GS model, lacks certain key hardware functions - no camera, no GPS module (ergo location...
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- ianf ⌘
@ianf, found the stats for Mobile OS penetration: "According to research firm IDC, Windows Mobile holds about 15 percent of the mobile OS market, while RIM leads with 48 percent and Apple's iPhone is in second place with 19 percent. Android only has 7.5 percent of the market."
- Jorge Escobar
Variable features is common and expected. My code can ship with feature support or not or it can turn on/off at runtime. But it's the same code. Here it will be two different code bases. Completely different situation.
- Todd Hoff
Jorge, »I believe calling Windows Mobile "brain dead" is a bit of a stretch« - it may well be. I only played with it for half an hour on some HTC smartphone, and I don't use any other device apart from unphony Palm Lifedrive, but the very concept of creating an OS for mobile devices while leveraging the GUI of the desktop made me puke. Also, I found it incredibly inconsistent in the...
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- ianf ⌘
Jorge, are those statistics for market share by unit delivery or dollar volume? If WinMo in 10+ years time and with several tens, if not hundreds OEMs within its dev corral couldn't capture more than 15% [of the overall figure], and measly Apple could surpass it in just two years, what does it tell you? BTW. I do not believe Apple will ever be the dominant [f]actor in that field simply...
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- ianf ⌘
You don't catch the point. Android is a brand and it's for Smartphones. iPhone is Osx basically but they say "iPhone OS". It's the same. Then welcome Chrome OS, that had different features, different target and different architectures to run on. Chrome OS is not a competitor or a brother of Android, probably is birth from a rib of Android, one day they'll tell us. The point for me is...
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- CantorJF
I'm sorry, but when you consider the big two, no mobile OS works cross platform with its non-mobile counterpart. That confusion does not exist. No offense, but I think that Todd and Jorge are manufacturing a problem out of thin air. Windows and Windows Mobile have the same word in the name, but so what? There is literally nothing that works across the two operating systems, so devs have...
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- Chieze Okoye
Consider MS had massive investment in a desktop OS that was completely dominant. It's understandable there's a difference between the two platforms. Now, phone capabilities and notebook and even desktop capabilities are quickly converging. On phones we have GPUs, multi-cores, many devices, lots of RAM, lots of disk. Not that much different than a desktop. What's the rationale for a...
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- Todd Hoff
@Ryo, I believe iPhone OS has been much more effective than Android. Android is the also-ran kid, as Chrome is on the browser world. Don't get me wrong, I love Android, I have a G1. My main browser is Chrome. I just think, as I said in my article, at this point of time Google needs to be more focused to have a chance to succeed, and not have a myriad of products that non-techie consumers can't even begin to understand.
- Jorge Escobar
For me Google is very focused with this: they want to deliver their services as first class applications to the user. This does require a redesign of the OS. This would be crazy if they started to build this stuff from scratch, but they rely mostly on existing open source projects. And while Chrome OS and Android look very different, I'm sure they still have a very large common code base.
- Oliver Bouchard
@Oliver there's something called Linux that is already nimble, and look where it's gotten to. Google should pick their battles better.
- Jorge Escobar
I don't believe they want to battle Linux, they just want to optimize it for their purpose: running Google applications the same way as local application.
- Oliver Bouchard
from IM
In the end the Chrome OS will just be a gateway to Google's online services. Moving to the cloud has some great applications but I think most prefer to have control over their data. Now if it is a full OS, we'll need developers to write programs for it. In short I see it being introduced in response to MS Gazelle.
- Keith Beucler
Hmm, taking a POSIX OS and customizing the hell out of it till you get what you want. Hmmm, now where have I heard of a company doing that before? Hmmmm. @Jorge, as far as Android being less effective, there is a big difference between "less prevalent than the market leader" and "struggling." For a new entrant into the mobile OS game from a company that is not also making the hardware,...
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- Chieze Okoye
Regarding your point on focusing, I definitely agree with you that focus is a good thing and key for Google to succeed, but there is plenty of room in a company as large as Google to "focus" on more than one thing at a time. And indeed, I think that a company that overfocuses in one thing to the detriment of exploring other possible revenue streams and product lines runs the risk of, in the end, painting itself into a corner.
- Chieze Okoye
Sorry, Ryo, it's obvious you haven't read the post or the thread.
- Jorge Escobar
Ryo, sounds like you're just trolling my thread. You, yourself, say exactly what I'm describing in my post in your own thread: "It's strange nonetheless, why they rename Android for desktops. Maybe to make a cut between mobile apps and desktop apps. But there is an overlap, which is very disturbing" http://friendfeed.com/googleb...
- Jorge Escobar
I'm confused: why is it FFers complain about strangers, "rude new comers" noise, etc etc etc but will then turn around and talk about how FF growth is flat? Call me crazy, but you can't have growth without newbies folks.
+1 Tina. I agree. If you keep chasing off newcomers, you're doing more harm than good to FF. Sure, spammers should be run off. But if someone is just annoying to you, that's no justification for attacking them and chasing them away from FF.
- Jason Huebel
Complaining for some is their normal interaction with the world. When we all started using social media tools, we were all aggravating to a degree. Need to lay off the newbies a bit, unless they are going down the path of relentless marketing and get rich quick posts, then it is smackdown time! ;-)
- Eban Crawford
I think my example this week with VerothicA from deviantART is a good one. I could have easily blocked the user and thrown abuse back but I don't see that as being healthy for me, for the other user and for the community.
- Kol Tregaskes
I thought it was the old timers who were annoying. :-)
- Robert Scoble
I'm passionate about new users as the services needs them to grow and feel that FF doesn't support them very well, e.g. no proper tutorial upon completing registration and the issue with the suggested users list. It's one reason why I've created the FF-Beginners group here: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... and why I check for new users (as best I can) daily and welcome them aboard.
- Kol Tregaskes
Scoble, is that you trying to instigate a "Get off my lawn!" moment? ;-) I definitely try to welcome the new users I come across and answer any questions as best I can. And yes, I've run into people who make me want to bash my head in with a ball peen hammer in the process (both new and old), but I handle them the same way I do in real life: polite interactions only when necessary.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
I do have to admit it's taken me quite a while to find my feet here at FF. It also took me some time to find my way on Twitter, too. I'm finding myself using both services for different things now. It also takes me more effort to find people I'd like to subscribe to on FF for some reason. Maybe because new people keep getting chased off? ;-)
- Darren Landrum
You mean kind of like how the flood of AOL newbies helped grow the Internet back when? But please let's not restart to old game of duping them in to posting "me too" like back in the alt.news days. ;)
- Michael Leonard
Darren, my first month on FF was no fun at all. I followed maybe 30 people, no one was following me, and I got my main feed in my feed reader. The result? No interaction on the items I posted, I didn't interact on items other people posted, and the posts that DID get interaction drove me nuts by reappearing all the time in my feed reader. Once I threw my hands up and decided to just hang out here and have fun with it, my experience completely changed..
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
It definitely takes time to understand how Friendfeed works. I was lucky when I joined in that a few people subscribed right away, so I got to see some interaction in progress from the start. Even so it took a few weeks to really learn the system.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
I think starting on FF can be hard, people don't follow you automatically when you follow them as many do on Twitter, if you don't have a decent feed no one subscribes to you but it is unlikely you will have the motivation to have a decent feed with no audience. On Twitter you will be followed mostly by bots and people that will never read your tweets but your followers count increases...
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- M F
I think a new user tutorial should include an live interactive post and comment part at the end, with something generic like "Hi just joined FriendFeed" in the title. Then us old users could choose to have a saved search that seeks out these posts and welcomes the new user?
- Kol Tregaskes
Well, I just decided to turn off all of the "Publish FF to Twitter" options on my account here. No need to look in two different places for replies to something I published to only one. I think this will help me adapt a lot.
- Darren Landrum
I don't know, Kol, that almost seems kind of forced. With the system as it is now, I as a new user would probably find good people to follow by search. If there's an interactive signup tutorial, perhaps it'd be worthwhile to have a part where you enter three words or phrases that you're interested in. Me, I'd pick 'hilarious', science, and a specific turn of phrase. Use those words and setup custom searches in the tutorial, and you have a ready-made list of people with interests similar to your own.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
I will make people mad but... SOME early adopters get BIG on a site when its just early adopters there... then Mainstreamers get involved... and they wanna see kitties and boobs and not talk about bandwidth and apps and unique visitors! But there is way more of them and the numbers are moved off the Techie Early adopters and it goes to a Kardashian... This pisses off SOME early adopters and they bitch about the newbies. Then they move to a new product. Cycle of life! (My uneducated thoughts!)
- Cody Heitschmidt
You have a point, Cody, but I really do think FF offers features that can prevent that. 1) Only subscribe to people when you want to see the MAJORITY their content. 2) Hide imported services you don't want to see. 3) Use saved searches to find content of interest to you based on keywords rather than poster. I post a lot of useless crap so I don't expect certain people to follow me....
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- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
I completely agree with you FF Kicks a huge pile of ass. i love it. i was just trying to give my opinion on why early adopters (again just SOME of them) bitch about newbies. Early Adopters are famous in the Early to Kinda early adopter crowd, but 75% of the world never heard of Robert Scoble (maybe more) (I use Scoble as an example cause I don't consider him a whiny early adopter, the...
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- Cody Heitschmidt