 |
|
| FriendFeed is the easiest way to share online. Learn more » |
Greg Byrne › Comments
Zero Punctuation : The Sims 3 - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos...
"probably the most evil game in the world"
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
Laptop Hunters: Brad - http://www.funnyordie.com/videos...
 |
"Brad wants the money for a new computer"
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
A Changed Google Results Layout, Perhaps Experimental - http://blogoscoped.com/archive...
Hate the new layout. Please align the results back on the left of the screen.
- Greg Byrne
Lost Apollo 11 video tapes [NOT] found? - Bad Astronomy - http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastr...
According to Bob Jacobs, NASA Deputy Assistant Administrator for Public Affairs, the Sunday Express article I link to below "is a fiction"
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
Sarah Palin Is Not Stupid - http://skeptoid.com/episode...
"Is an ad hominem attack really the best way to express disagreement?"
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
Do you need more than Windows 7 Home Premium? - Ed Bott - http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott...
No, probably not. I certainly don't
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
Web Site Story - CollegeHumor video - http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1...
|
Even FriendFeed gets mentioned
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
Congrats to http://news.cnet.com/ on the big Cialis banner ad buy http://yfrog.com/0tficp
 |
Marcel Weiß liked this
They must be desperate, from their gadget blog a condom ad: http://news.cnet.com/crave/ Keep it classy cnet.
- Greg Byrne
hey, it's the right demographics
- Da
My first iPhone 3GS Qik video. - http://qik.com/video/1991080
 |
Wayne Sutton, David Potts, John Harnett and 32 other people liked this
Comparison of Qik.com http://qik.com/video/1991080 or YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch... using an iPhone 3GS.
- Robert Scoble
Cool, iPhone 3GS with Qik works fine! (Not available to public yet).
- Robert Scoble
What did you record the video on?
- Jim Connolly
I was using an iPhone 3GS.
- Robert Scoble
I have a new Qik app that's in testing and was built specifically for my iPhone.
- Robert Scoble
This was broadcast over my Wifi network, but I'll try it later today on 3G.
- Robert Scoble
Very impressive!!
- Jim Connolly
wish qik was in the app store right now :( --
- Bryce Campbell
When will Qik be coming out for public?
- Andrew Smith
Andrew: they won't say (can't say, don't know?)
- Robert Scoble
Qik IS in an app store - Ovi Apps. Works awesome on an E or N Series ; >
- Thom Kennon
@Robert, is this the jailbroken Qik or the appstore Qik? We talked about this yesterday, but you didn't mention that you had it. NDA or something?
- Joey Gibson
Andrew: I'm sure they are trying to get it approved by Apple and AT&T right now. It works great and now that the iPhone 3GS has video, they should approve the app.
- Robert Scoble
Thom: and Qik is also on Android now.
- Robert Scoble
Joey: not jailbroken, but it's a developer's version that they made specificially for my iPhone 3GS.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: What do you think about Android - A game changer?
- Jim Connolly
I don't know enough to comment. Is this good quality for a phone?
- Todd Hoff
Jim: potentially yes. But it feels like 1993. Remember then? Apple's Mac was way ahead of Windows.
- Robert Scoble
Todd: yes, considering it's live video. If you want non live video, you can use YouTube. Let me upload one of those.
- Robert Scoble
bet now with video on the 3G S, something will come (or in progress), just hope they make it compatible with the 3G
- Bryce Campbell
Any idea when this will be available, Robert?
- Tom Guarriello
Tom: no.
- Robert Scoble
Looks cool and again I am jealous hopefully Apple will approve it
- Kim Landwehr
Looks great, and sign me up if they need testers in Canada on Rogers network :)
- Andrew Smith
Ohhh the "world from inside a fishbowl" camera effect! exclusively from iPhone #fail. - but hey! at least you can copy/paste now. #win
- Enrique Gutierrez
Looks pretty good, but QIK on the 3-4 Nokias we use is comparable. Blackberry is ok. N95 is the best quality, but that's a lens feature.
- Ken Camp
Enrique: heheh.
- Robert Scoble
Enrique: 1 .... Us: 0
- Thom Kennon
Andrew Smith, agree with your comment ;)
- Bryce Campbell
Robert, what size monitor are you using and what is the screen resolution?
- LPH™ and his dog P™
LPH: It's an Apple 24 inch monitor. 1900x1200.
- Robert Scoble
I had qik on my broken 3G. Worked Good. I have 3GS now. Would like to see the difference. Hopefully Apple will release soon. You get all the cool stuff first Rob. It's good to be the Scobleizer. !
- johnpiercy
I don't think it looks good at all.. It has the same wobbly (rolling shutter) issue as the older iPhones. Which is odd, since it doesn't show up *as much* on the normal recorded 3GS videos.
- Rodfather
Quality looks pretty great for a phone.
- Mitch
Here's the same iPhone 3GS but using YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Robert Scoble
The quality does look a bit better than my jb qik on 3G. Thanks for posting.
- Josh Haley
Robert are you sick are is your voice deeper?
- Jim Turner
I'm not sick.
- Robert Scoble
well quality to me looks pretty good for a phone, also looks better than the 3G, what i like about Qik is not the quality of the video but the content, not that i would use it all the time, but when something i want to record like a event in which would help the authorities or whatever may be the case.
- Bryce Campbell
Is the "fish bowl" look due to the glare off that monitor? Maybe do a live test where there isn't a reflection -- is that possible?
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Qik has their codecs turned down pretty low from a quality standpoint. It won't stand up against the h.264 native version being fed to YouTube.
- Jerry Schuman
Quality looks really impressive on Youtube. Will save me the fuss of getting a Flip machine for daily shootings.
- Nir Ben Yona
If they approve the app I'm buying a 3gs.
- Craig Shipp
The YouTube quality is a lot nicer, but it's not live either. Liveness is very important to me a lot of the time because you can chat with me while filming.
- Robert Scoble
LPH: yeah, the reflections caused that. Sorry. It was just something quick and dirty.
- Robert Scoble
This is great news! Hope that Qik app gets approved by Apple, though.
- Rom Feria
Robert - nothing to apologize - I wondered if that "look" was due to the reflection. I really look forward to trying this out on my own 3G S !
- LPH™ and his dog P™
It's possible the processor is being taxed so much since it has to encode the video and stream at the same time. The rolling shutter issue is still really bad.
- Rodfather
Rodfather: the Qik app needs to compress the video much much more than the YouTube one does so that it will work over 3G live.
- Robert Scoble
Since this is wifi - are you also going to do a 3G one too?
- LPH™ and his dog P™
LPH: yes, but I don't have 3G at my house, so that will need to be later.
- Robert Scoble
What is the upload and encoding time for YouTube for a one minute video? Also, can you add the video to a playlist via the iPhone?
- Craig Shipp
I fully expect to see Apple to get into the realtime video stream game. It's in the core competency and they're building both the online ability as well as the hardware support.
- Jerry Schuman
Foiled by Apple Gloss!
- BryanSchuetz
What is 3G like in general around were you live, then? You are somewhere around San Fran, Robert?
- Christopher A. Wichura
how long till you can do a live remote video feed via me.com and seen in realtime on your AppleTV?
- Jerry Schuman
The problem is not Apple it's ATT and not enough bandwidth
- Craig Shipp
Yes Robert, but the quality doesn't look all that much better than from an original iPhone/3g and the 3GS has a much faster processor. It could be the frame is slow. One of the things to get around the rolling shutter effect is increasing the framerate.
- Rodfather
You must be doing something right Robert, Steve Gillmor just liked your Qik video from the 3GS ;-)
- Jerry Schuman
Indistinguishable from my G1, quality-wise.
- Christopher A Carr
I can't wait until the 4g and HD streaming video....maybe next summer. That will be a game changer for sure.
- Craig Shipp
Robert, Excellent - I look forward to the 3G test too. It should be illuminating !
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Flips next evolution should be something akin to embedding a mifi ability so that its straight to the network and they can augment their revenue stream and they actually become a friend to the video enabled 3/4G phones
- Jerry Schuman
Robert - while thinking about this - do you have the low down on a Ustream version of live broadcasting with the iPhone? Any public word?
- LPH™ and his dog P™
LPH: I haven't heard anything yet.
- Robert Scoble
Jerry: Steve Gillmor is a media innovator. I bet he's thinking about Gillmor Gang 6.0 or whatever we're going to call it when we start that all up again. :-)
- Robert Scoble
RE: Qik; looking forward to that Android running, WiMax enabled Samsung device for Sprint...
- Christopher A Carr
I, for one, am definitely looking forward to GG6.0. I have an itch I need to scratch.
- Jerry Schuman
Robert: how is the 3GS going anyway - is it worth buying?
- Geer
Geer: it's faster. The camera is better. It does video. It has a compass. It seems to use less batteries. It seems to drop fewer calls. So, yes, it's worth it.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: good feedback, I would like the camera/video, but I think I will continue to give my "plain" 3G a few more months!
- Geer
so they should be using apple's private APIs, if you say it's not jailbroken
- Konstantin
Robert: It'll be Gillmor Gang 2010 of course
- Greg Byrne
Uh oh. Jury duty the day after I get back from China 7/20. "Your honor, is it ok if I live-blog the trial?"
Daniel Rowley, Adrian, Kevin Borders and 14 other people liked this
LOL, in NY you can't bring cell phones etc into the courthouse.
- Lillian Banchik
Or sleep through it?
- Francine Hardaway
from PeopleBrowsr
Wondering who's on trial that could consider you a peer Leo?
- Andrew Smith
Yuck! I just finished jury duty a couple weeks ago up in Santa Rosa
- Patrick Arend
Fantastic to see FF citizens still contributing to good social causes! LOL :)
- Geer
ask jury clerk for an extension (re-schedule)
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
When you report for duty, wear a surgical mask, cough a lot, and be sure to say many times how you just got back from China.
- Joey Gibson
that would be cool if you could "live-blog" from the courtroom, but as well all know...
- Bryce Campbell
Cripes! How long will operations at TWiT be shut down?
- Greg Byrne
Ask for a reschedule. You should have a website listed on your form that you can use to request a delay and a reschedule.
- Gene Pennington
Just tell the judge that you don't believe it is fundamentally right to decide someone's fate without consulting FriendFeed first and they won't even make you serve.
- Davis Freeberg
Windows 7 versus Snow Leopard: How much do upgrades really cost? - Ed Bott’s Microsoft Report - http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott...
"Too bad the $29 upgrade is not that simple. In fact, according to my analysis of Apple’s own sales figures, 57% of Apple’s customers who bought and paid for new Macs in the past five years are ineligible for those cheap upgrades."
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
News from Iran : Ahmadinejad Tweets Back - Funny or Die - http://www.funnyordie.com/videos...
|
Ahmadinejad gets a twitter account and tries to master the new social media
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
Check out the New Windows 7 Packaging - http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs...
Simple, Clean and Easy To Open…
- Greg Byrne
Greatest freak out ever - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
 |
Probably fake
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
Why friendfeed is better for Iranian students than Twitter and why I love it so much @zbowling see here:
Head Ov Metal, Bill Romanos, Kol Tregaskes and 57 other people liked this
Friendfeed is better for Iranian students because you can have private groups that the state can't see into.
- Robert Scoble
The search here is much better, especially if you have groups of people who you are following.
- Robert Scoble
Because of features like "likes" news is easier to spread to your friends.
- Robert Scoble
yeah, FF search is the best I've seen for anything real time.
- Tony
Technically friendfeed is way ahead of other networks. You are seeing the news in real time here, for instance.
- Robert Scoble
Friend management is MUCH better here. On Twitter you can only have one list of friends. Here? Infinite.
- Robert Scoble
Why is FriendFeed better than Facebook? Infinite numbers of friends, which makes it better for organizing protests and such.
- Robert Scoble
Should we be pinging CNN to get on Friendfeed too, Robert? @DonLemonCNN & others are still hitting refresh on their web browsers.
- Alex Howard
Direct messaging is 1000x better here than on Twitter or Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
Alex: CNN is clueless.
- Robert Scoble
Hah. Well, sure. But we can help them. And by doing so, help us all, no?
- Alex Howard
FF just needs Oprah and Ashton to join... everyone I know who isn't a TechCrunch junkie is just hearing about Twitter (over and over again these days), and has no idea that FF exists.
- Ryan Mickle
I like being able to get instant emails from friends- "imaginary friends" is the best hidden feature in FriendFeed
- joebrooks
Alex: I tried last weekend and at the Twitter conference with CNN, but they don't ask for help. They think they are so cool because they read Tweets on air.
- Robert Scoble
joebrooks: yeah, FriendFeed's IM and email integration is so much better than Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
If the state is able to intercept the communications, they need not see into the rooms as they already have the http post data.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
(but that's not to say that the majority of what is above is incorrect)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Rob: the state is, although many of the students are using proxy servers that encrypt all communications.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Sorry to hear that -- not that you tried -- but that they didn't listen. So much potential to meld the real-time Web with the cable news networks. Caught myself getting upset with the CNN anchors today. No attribution of Tweets or the YouTube videos they are showing.
- Alex Howard
Rob: the only way you can use Twitter and friendfeed in Iran right now is through proxy servers.
- Robert Scoble
I'm aware of that, but the data is not encrypted before the proxy, only after
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Also, here when we have a conversation with tons of Tweets like this one you can bundle up the whole bunch and link people to the entire conversation. That's impossible to do on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble: one might argue that the fact twitter is open has helped them quite a bit
- BryanSchuetz
Bryan: yes, Twitter is getting more than its fair share of mentions because Twitter is simple, open, and public.
- Robert Scoble
if it's all private you can't get the mob involved
- BryanSchuetz
but once the mob is involved keeping it going in a good direction becomes difficult
- BryanSchuetz
Bryan: I told 15 people I was quitting Microsoft and within three days had tens of millions of media mentions. You'd be surprised how fast things move from small groups to big mobs.
- Robert Scoble
using "mob" intentionally here as well. Lots of missteps going on from all the people on twitter trying to help but unwittingly making things worse
- BryanSchuetz
Friendfeed seems more resilient against disinformation - there is a great deal of disinformation and warnings against it on twitter right now
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Robert, great points on why Friendfeed would be of use to Iranian students. Given that they're limited to short bursts of transmission or tunneling in on the Web to upload video, I wonder whether students in-country would really be better served.
- Alex Howard
While I agree with your technical sentiments, let's remember that this is about the people of Iran. I am more than willing to use as many channels as necessary to provide aid. Yes to Twitter, to Friendfeed, to Facebook. Heck, let's even include Orkut for that matter. But the most important channel of communications is between ourselves and our God. May God's will be made known to all...
more...
- Lorin Olsen
You can't expect CNN to be this far ahead of the curve. Even though I agree that they would benefit immensely from using services like FF, they are just getting started with this. At least they are trying new things. I think that the "old media" are waking up just in time. It will be interesting to see what television will look like a few years from now.
- Wim Mulder
guruvan, perhaps Friendfeed seems more "resilient" because the userbase is at least an order of magnitude smaller?
- William Anderson
I think event news will continue to look more like what CNN is doing, sifting through the online media for real people telling truth and giving perspective from on the ground in hotspots
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
guruvan you mean they will actually ...whats the word for it... report?
- BryanSchuetz
Lorin: you are very close to getting blocked for trying to take the conversation back to some sort of religious argument.
- Robert Scoble
William: perhaps, but there is also more leadership here on FriendFeed, and it's not quite such a mob in the first place. the more organized discussions lead people to gravitate toward each other, and natural leaders come forth - I've just over the last hour spent some time looking therough a few feeds, and translating as fast as I can, and seen exactly this
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
William: Twitter was ALWAYS down when it had far fewer people on it than friendfeed has today. Friendfeed is done by five superstars from Google. The technology here is so much better than Twitter's it isn't even funny.
- Robert Scoble
You all should watch the Public Feed here and see how much Farsi is being used: http://friendfeed.com/public
- Robert Scoble
In Twitter's defense, they're holding up under the current pressure pretty well.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Rob: true. Twitter has gotten 1000x better recently. They've also been hiring many of SIlicon Valley's biggest tech stars too.
- Robert Scoble
scoble I just want that translator bot from the google wave demo in here for that public stream
- BryanSchuetz
Can twitter access through third party software like seesmic desktop if it is blocked?
- Nyan Min
Yes Farsi is good here Robert !!!
- Myrna
Bryan: I mean that the people will report, and the news organizations will try to determine the truth by corroborating stories, and centralizing information, and then distribute more easily digested chunks of the reports - something like twitter is very difficult for average people to digest for news. I have several search streams running and it's very difficult to kepp up
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Robert: I wasn't referring to technical resiliency.
- William Anderson
Nyan: not sure, possibly. In China my blog is blocked but I could see my blog on Google Reader.
- Robert Scoble
Nyan: It's likely that access through many clients is broken, but it is also likely that the governement does not know of every client. Clients that are unknown, or use transport other than port 80 http are more likely to work from Iran.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Guruvan: I hope so. CNN simply reading tweets on the air is not how I think MSM should be using tools like that. They are tools that can help them find the story, they seem to be making the tools the story, which is doubly irritating because we all understand the tools better than they do.
- BryanSchuetz
In the absence of other verifiable news, you might as well read tweets on the air. Especially if you have some kind of backend tweet processing that is filtering things like the more RTed phrases, links etc etc. (not that they are doing that, I don't really know, but I do doubt it....they should maybe hire me to build it) ;)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
@scobleizer The only question I'd have for you on this -- I validate your points -- is in timing. Why advocate for FF now, when Twitter is clearly allowing Iranians to get info out? The tech is great, on any number of levels, but I'm a wee bit surprised to see the push for it pop up. Do you feel that strongly? I know you're personally invested in getting good information and protecting people, given your family, so I view your motives as fairly unimpeachable.
- Alex Howard
Alex: I've been advocating FF consistently no matter what the news is for more than a year now. Has nothing to do with now. And Twitter is blocked in Iran, just like FriendFeed. FriendFeed is a better place for students and protesters to organize. Why? Private rooms. Real TIme. And all the other reasons I give above.
- Robert Scoble
More clients need to be developed that include FriendFeed to make it more readily available in time of crisis and during information blockades
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
the key in this conversation is not which method is best for us , but what is most useful to those inside Iran. Friendfeed seems to be a much more cohesive way to communicate not as much noise, and the noise can be easily filtered
- Kim Landwehr
Yes Kim, I agree what can we do for Iranians here with FF.
- Myrna
Alex, Robert is just setting everything up for the next revelution so we can get better information quicker.
- Jason Remnant
Lets be honest, it will take more than a nifty social networking/micro blogging site to get the vote.
- Kevin J Hatton
Kevin: that's true, but small things can make huge changes in culture. Remember the one woman who refused to sit at the back of the bus?
- Robert Scoble
Jason: Exactly. Each one needs to be carried out better. Most importantly, each time we learn faster/better ways to deal with governments clamping down on communications. The internet is designed (inherently) as a tool of Freedom.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
@Robert Scoble I would have to agree with your point.
- Kevin J Hatton
Robert, now that your blog is no longer hosted by Wordpress, it may be accessible in China. Or perhaps the government just don't like you.
- Greg Byrne
Greg: that's true.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Aren't all discussions based upon spiritual premises? Ethics and politics are both derived from the deep-seated stirrings of our spirits. But I appreciate your point. I'll try not to preach. But that's hard for me as I am an evangelist by my very nature. BTW, so are you! Nevertheless, the point I was trying to make is that we should be glad for every channel, including Twitter....
more...
- Lorin Olsen
Lorin: we're talking about friendfeed here and I used to be a fundamentalist Christian and don't appreciate efforts to bring religious evangelism into conversations here for a whole lot of reasons. Iran is run by religious people, remember.
- Robert Scoble
Rob Nelson: Also, https://friendfeed.com is operational.
- Nick in Manila
Nick: Operational in Iran? Brett's post of their drop in traffic from Iran would suggest that both http and https are blocked, and the only thing getting through from Iran is proxies (and those are being blocked at a pretty good clip too)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Rob - You're right. You had commended on Iran being able to snoop http: protocol of FF. I was just pointing out FF also uses https. They can't snoop it, but they can indeed block it.
- Nick in Manila
Running something like FF or Twitter servers internally would let CNN and friends organize information and interoperate better. Sounds like a growth opportunity for FF.
- Ernie Oporto
Quick how-to setup a proxy if you have the means: http://gr88.tumblr.com/page/2 (mac instructions on previous page)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
And Nick: /you/ can't snoop https, but most any government can. It is not very difficult.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
It is easy to follow comments/likes. It is more valuable with previews to images. And if a part of your audience is using Twitter, you can sync it to FF.
- Burcu Dogan
Wow. 1TB Drive: £63.85 delivered. (Amazon - Hitachi Hdt721010sla360 3.5" 1tb 16mb Sata Hdd) - http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec...
Even better: £60.84 from Tekheads http://www.tekheads.co.uk/s...
- Greg Byrne
Amazon drops its price: £59.16 http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec... Perhaps it's time to buy.
- Greg Byrne
Steve Ballmer in the Matrix - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
 |
Screen shots are here: http://www.math.sfu.ca/~cbm... the full film seems to have been lost
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
Laptop Hunters: Jake - http://www.funnyordie.com/videos...
|
Jake's on the hunt for a laptop where he can see the whole gang.
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
There's a reason I follow 100,000 on Twitter and 25,000 on friendfeed: I get to see patterns no one else is seeing. Here's some:
zxspectrum, Fashion Picture, Jeroen De Miranda and 189 other people liked this
I saw the Chinese earthquake while it was happening. 45 minutes before CNN.
- Robert Scoble
I see that Bing is gaining steam today.
- Robert Scoble
I saw that people were frustrated on Saturday with CNN.
- Robert Scoble
The Matrix?
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew: in a way, yes.
- Robert Scoble
I see new software, services, ideas before most other people.
- Robert Scoble
How do you deal with the noise?
- Kevin Lim
How do you filter out all the noise? I find myself constantly unfollowing people to make Twitter more relevant.
- Michelle
I've noticed this effect in just following 40 or 50 more people on Twitter.
- Bill Kinney
And I get to see how they react to news, like Opera's new browser this morning.
- Robert Scoble
The Robert Scoble version of "Google Earth"
- Pete Blackshaw
Big Brother style
- Richard Lai
So that's like "Scoble trends" :) Like Twitter trends, but for emerging events.
- Kirill Petrovsky
Jinx.
- Michelle
Michelle: noise is like the lawn. It lets you see the flowers.
- Robert Scoble
So effectively you start a topic on Twitter, and then use friendfeed as a chat room?
- Richard Lai
i follow almost 60,000 on twitter now and love it. totally agree scoble.
- Jason Pollock
Hoping for some improvements to Tweetdeck groups - just not enough yet
- Kirsten Hamstra
yeah but how do you SEE the patterns, you cannot read them all do you?
- Hans Mestrum
You should be talking about all the spammers on Twitter because that is the trend
- paul mooney
Robert is our filter, we follow robert who sees the patterns and reports it back.
- Ray Slakinski
Here's a hint: I don't always follow 125,000 people. In friendfeed I have lists of only 150 people. THEY HAVE VERY LITTLE NOISE.
- Robert Scoble
He has a socket in the back of his head ;-)
- Richard H
Also, in friendfeed I can remove noise by displaying only items that have gotten a like. Like this: http://friendfeed.com/search...
- Robert Scoble
Thank goodness we have you, Robert, to do that, so we don't have to.
- Jason Mayoff
make sense following "likes"
- Hans Mestrum
paul: spammers don't bother me. They add about as much value as people who tell me they had a jelly sandwich for lunch.
- Robert Scoble
Jeff Pulver Followers every p0rn site and spammer who Follows him, check his Following list
- paul mooney
paul: here's a little trick: I do most of my following in friendfeed. Why? Better friend management.
- Robert Scoble
I also have issues bc what I have to follow for work is very different from what I want to follow, but that is another issue.
- Michelle
Twitter has gone the way of email, that's why Twitter Search doesn't work - the system is overwellemed!
- paul mooney
Bill: actually you only need to follow a few people to get a pretty good look at the good stuff. Why? If something is good everyone talks about it.
- Robert Scoble
Michelle - same issue here! work vs. professional following and juggling multiple accts
- Kirsten Hamstra
paul: it still works for me. I just skip over the spam. My mind likes seeing spam and noise. It helps me see the news.
- Robert Scoble
For the rest of us - just friend Scoble -- you might hear about stuff delayed 5 minutes or so.
- Brian Sullivan
Where do I get one of these neat sockets in the back of my head, I get dizzy just trying to follow 2K people.
- dabitch
All the Twitter marketers are auto-Following the spammers, it's a perfect storm
- paul mooney
paul: in email I don't care about the spam either. I can always scan a page of spam and find my boss' emails for some reason.
- Robert Scoble
reminds me of roy - I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the darkness at Tan Hauser Gate.
- mike "glemak" dunn
Brian: that is true. My like feed at http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei... is pretty good.
- Robert Scoble
That's why people who don't follow others on Twitter are kinda of missing the point, aren't they? I love seeing when people are being followed by 30,000 people but following 2.
- Curt Mercadante
BTW Robert, props on following the Iran elections. Hopefully this will open our eyes to what has been happening in Egypt, Russia, Pakistan and a host of other countries for decades. If Benezir Bhutto were alive and had been elected like she would have been, we'd live in a different world.
- Michelle
so robert - could you be an android ;)
- mike "glemak" dunn
Robert: so in a way, if you follows all that people, we actually needs to follow only one person, which is you. here's why: it is most likely that you'll post about the major stuff that you read about in your friends stream - which make you a better filter than any other service around :) (I'm following lots of people too because I simply like to find and read about new and exciting things)
- Orli Yakuel
I totally agree with you Robert. It's like holding your hand into a jet of water and drinking from time to time.
- nik
you need to have the spirit of sharing good stuffs to others, or the good only reaches you but does not spread out.
- K.D.
I cannot get people to join FriendFeed. I even did a video showing them how great it is. I cannot seem to follow that many more on Twitter than 200 and keep up with them. I tried Tweetdeck, but it just used too much RAM for me.
- Hummie
The REAL trick here is that you have a natural gift for scanning with your eyes. I would follow many more people if I could scan (and absorb) information as quickly as you do. Since I don't, I follow you. You are among my first line of defense.
- Bettina Tizzy
All these fortune cookie Tweets are the work of spammers, sooner or later comes the link to the get-rich-quick site
- paul mooney
Robert you are awesome! ★
- weirdchina
@scobleizer I want to see the matrix also... still several K from where you are.
- Robert Freeze
Robert, do you read http://friendfeed.com/public also?
- bnoise
i follow more on ff
- junrxu
Sounds a little like Joey Osmond - Robert I see patterns Scoble? Definitely agree though - there is useful information that can be pulled from the right people's twitter/friendfeed that gives trends developing real time, as long as sea changes over longer periods
- Tom Tubbs
Hmmm, why is http://friendfeed.com/scoblei... faster than http://friendfeed.com/public ?
- Greg Byrne
holy shit robert... i just had my mind blown watching your live friendfeed. this whole time i've been trying to control the chaos... keep people organized into neat piles. wow... wowow
- Eric Nakagawa
You are so right!
- Thomas Chai
@Hummie: I had the same problem with TweetDeck. Try SeesmicDesktop, it has similar functionality but less RAM-greedy
- Ashalynd
Robert do you have a link to the video you did showing 'how' you manage all this information flow? I would enjoy watching it again.
- Matt Perry
here's another interesting search which will show all scoble's friends' items that have at least 1 like: http://friendfeed.com/search... only wish this were realtime
- Mike Chelen
Robert - cool post, excellent comments - same exact reason I embraced FF in early days and stayed here!! Love it
- Susan Beebe
Robert since I have been following you I have done a complete 180 on how I felt about social networking before. I mean the media is fast but social networking works at the speed of thought. Now if I could only figure out how to interact behind the Army & Airforce firewall... I felt lost today at work... LOL
- Nathan McClain
Matt, I think that video is this one: HOw I Read Tweets: http://www.kyte.tv/scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
Orli the problem with only following me is that I need to sleep once in a while and I also might not follow people you care about. For instance, if you are into celebrities and not technology I totally wouldn't be good for you to follow.
- Robert Scoble
we know what I care about and I'm glad that I'm following you! but I got the point, and I agree of course. I was just kidding I guess..
- Orli Yakuel
Great video. Watching it again now...
- Matt Perry
Yeah some wild connections are made by watching a lot more than a few friends. Wonder why most people don't "get" that? Researchers should follow a ton of people and sources.
- Jack Humphrey
Jack: actually, people should do BOTH follow a ton of people and sources as well as follow just a very select group of people. I wish I could share my groups (er, lists of friends) with you all. THEY are going to be the secret to filtering in the future.
- Robert Scoble
I'm lazy. I use your feed as my pre-filtered source of good/interesting general information. Thanks for doing a lot of the hard work for us (or at least me).
- John Meagher
Robert I think you are 100% correct, but it touches on what people should have already been doing, and that's getting as much information as they can from as many sources as they can and putting the facts together for themselves. I think traditional media's days of fact-less reporting are thankfully numbered. This is truly Fair and Balanced!!!
- Nathan McClain
Robert: People still won't get it. Seeing patterns is a talent or a skill. You can aid it, however, by showing or demonstrating how you filter for patterns. How do you scan messages and discern a pattern? How do you focus on a few without missing the patterns of the many? Might make a good presentation/blog. You probably already did it, right?
- Alan Eggleston
I don't think it requires following 125,000 people to be aware of the same trends.
- stretta
stretta: it does not, but I get to see small things that many people don't.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - and I appreciate those "small things" :) --- they look like startups! and new bright shiny tech toys!
- Susan Beebe
imagine an AI system that can analyze all that data for you and generate illuminating reports...
- Matt Jaunich
Matt: I can and lots of geeks are working on building just that.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks for the post. I immediately added the "like" search to my saved searches.
- Sean Powell
I follow 60,000 and I see a white light at the end of a tunnel. It's getting closer...
- Rick
You must do this by o s m o s i s....no other way? Intuition and speeed reading.
- Ziona Etzion
Yeah. Robert, I don't read your stuff and I don't know if you're going to read this. But regardless, I know you're well famed and this is the first thing I skimmed across of yours that would indicate that it's deserved. I follow options in the same way., eg almost literally. I have TD StrategyDesk open right now, ThinkOrSwim, Power E*Trade Pro, OptionsXPress, and the regular TD Ameritrade website open as well. Doing this allows me to view and be ware of data and turning points in many views and levels
- Matt Kaufman
Robert: If you could follow all 100,000+ people from Twitter in real time within friendfeed would you?
- Garin Kilpatrick
Twitter is a helpful automatized hammer for the main engine, which is friendfeed ;
- ewing2001akaNicomedy2010
I don't see why you couldn't just save a search on everybody's posts with likes on FF though and still follow only those you actually read daily + any protected accts? Even build smarter searches than that. You increase the number of people following you by lots more your way of course.
- Thomas Bøhm
from BuddyFeed
Sorry. The trend watching and analytical part would be the same, wouldn´t it, except that I now see that the saved searches don´t update in realtime. Yet.
- Thomas Bøhm
from BuddyFeed
No doubt...
- Thor
Nice post :-) Two questions though:
- Patrick Mackaaij
1. What sets apart the 100,000 people you "follow" to glance at once in a while from the everyone feed?
- Patrick Mackaaij
2. (a Friendfeed question): Do you still read this since I posted this comment a few hours after the initial conversation.
- Patrick Mackaaij
How did you find so many people to follow? How does an average user find so many to follow?
- Bas
Patrick: I was on stage and couldn't be on friendfeed.
- Robert Scoble
Patrick: the people I follow are usually much more tech interested and demonstrate early adopted behavior than the larger public audience.
- Robert Scoble
Never mind all this. How's Opera? Got a link this morning and thought I might try it (what a surprise, me trying something).
- Francine Hardaway
This is how I tell other people about Robert: http://www.victusspiritus.com/2009... and it's how I'm slowly patterning web learning (when I have time to interact and learn)
- Mark Essel
Scoble Earth(TM), Pete Blackshaw? ;)
- Tyson Key
Robert: Is this a Mandelbrot pattern? The chaos has a look, a feel and a taste, as in the jet of water analogy. You're the freakin' hydrologist with the dousing rod.
- Phil Boiarski
Robert: I was not expecting a real time response but was wondering how you keep track of all conversations you engaged with on FF. How can you see where comments are added?
- Patrick Mackaaij
I'm with Robert, just not with such a big of a scale. My point: I am noise and you are noise. Let's not forget there's a baby in that bathwater before one takes a blanket anti social network view of social networking!
- Mike Lewis
Robert, you are a living, breathing supernode, and I thank you for it :-) (Supernodes: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-95...)
- Andy Bold
makes sense 2 me
- Ron Hagenhoff
OMG Robert I agree 100% BEFORE Twitter screwed with the @replies censoring us from seeing all that people tweeted... I could scroll through my home page and get the pulse of the world on Twitter! A beautiful site! Comparatively now: Twitter is silent.
- Arleen Boyd
Robert, I'm having a jelly sandwich for lunch tomorrow. ;-)
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
All major television networks/news outlets should hire Scoble and heed this advice based on this weekends events in Iran. They need to learn how to listen, filter and understand how social media can deliver real-time information around the world.
- E-Advocate Network
böring
- yazarcizer
What tools are you using to keep track of the all that flows past?
- Inbox2 Team
Yeah, Robert is an Androïd! Each time I'm gotta 'like' 1 of his entries, comment, or visit links, I ask myself if I'm doing this because he is Scoble! Of course not: it's just because he's always pointing on valuable infos. And this is good for IT stuffs, for early adopters, for business.
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
So, Scoble proves that the best search & filter engine is Human. (Nah.. I'm not a 'groupie', never will ;-))
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
Curt, pple who don't follow others and hope to be followed & heard are obviously wrong. Social Media is not "Ego Media" ;)
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
Patrick, IMO Robert uses FriendFeed's search to find infos, & FF's email features to keep track of conversations & updates
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
or maybe you also miss some important ones because of the noise: like the patterns known by 99% of the users that have less than 1000 followers? does that make sense?
- Ouriel Ohayon
isn't that a little too much? do you even have time for anything else? Is it worth knowing about an earthquake some 30-40 minutes earlier than most people than spending some time with your real life friends?
- stefan
Stefan, the point is: if you want to spend as much time as possible with your real life friends, you have to be as efficient as possible during the time you spend in front of the computer. The more information you drink in a short time, the faster you can identify patterns.
- Brome
Best answer I've heard for why I'm also ok with following and listening to a ton of people on various platforms: "noise is like the lawn. It lets you see the flowers. - Robert Scoble"
- Leslie Poston
Wow, that's a clever use of the platforms!
- gareth - MMX Edition
We need information so we can decide while staying in touch with reality. -> Filtering skills, Good Human filter, Good filter tool (FriendFeed).
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
from email
Thierry: thanks I was looking for that indeed! Have changed my settings to see how e-mail works out there but I thought maybe there would be an easier way...
- Patrick Mackaaij
hey it was great to finally personally meeting you and hung out at the diner ; my weblog about the evening now at http://ff.im/45HR3 plus infos about WE LIVE IN PUBLIC premiering now in L.A. and my new video "PERU" @ http://www.youtube.com/watch... ; all the best for the conference today and building43 ;
- ewing2001akaNicomedy2010
Another FF question: I was under the assumption FF would merge duplicate imports so that conversations like these would remain in one place. If I do a search on a tending topic of today this does not seem to be the case: http://friendfeed.com/search...
- Patrick Mackaaij
Patrick, the imports may be duplicate URLs or pictures or whatever, but the conversation around them could be different. I see this as a good thing, and it show me two things. (1) it is an intersection of the different groups and types of people that I subscribe to. (2) it can be different nationalities in different timezones. Ie, of a more global interest. Bothe are good pieces of data for me.
- Andy Bold
from email
@Brom, yes. but there is only so much information one can absorb at a time. 100.000 twitters and 25 FFs? Even half of it is too much for a normal person to take in that fast. Robert MUST be a robot O_O
- stefan
@Andy: I'd rather not see any duplicate URL's and have the conversation take place in one thread. Google Translate can solve the language problem. But my question at the moment was what the current status is. I see it's already discussed here: http://friendfeed.com/susanbe...
- Patrick Mackaaij
how do I follow thousands of people without clicking follow over and over
- Kyle Weller
Kyle: Use friendfeed and click "subscribe"
- Garin Kilpatrick
Kyle: its still required to click subscribe for each user, but those clicks are well spent, and FF also will show posts from friends-of-friends. another good option is to join some groups for subjects that interest you
- Mike Chelen
Virgin tells customer: we've dropped Phorm - PC Pro - http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news...
Virgin Media is writing to customers to tell them it has dropped controversial web advertising service Phorm - even though it hasn't.
- Greg Byrne
from Bookmarklet
EVERYONE FREAK OUT! TWITTER IS DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE!!!!!!!!
Michael Marsalisi, Jannifer @wordsforliving, Valentino Valdez and 19 other people liked this
It's cool. I can chill.....
- Tim Young
I'm sure they're pushing to get done as fast as possible.
- Darren Landrum
While you're chilling, I'm freaking out! Watching Keyboard Cat videos to help relieve stress.
- Adam Jackson
i call... for the Cone of FAIL! </Maxwell_Smart>
- Karim
We can follow MG's post on things to do while Twitter is down. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Adam Jackson
They better be pushing, or the State Department will kick their asses... or something.
- David Owens
Found FriendFeed, natch.
- Brian McNely
FAIL!!!!!!! Hey, maybe it will slow down the faux Iranian gov't?
- Michael Forian
Now to step two...
- Tim Young
please refrain from any revolutions or earthquakes while Twitter is offline. thank you.
- Karim
True Karim. Let's hope nothing newsworthy happens while Twitter is down. Thank goodness there's FriendFeed to keep us going.
- Adam Jackson
Karim: A "tree falling in the woods with no one around" thought crosses my mind.
- Tim Young
While Twitter is down for maintenance, FriendFeed is open for business ;-)
- iconic88
I'm cool!
- tomit
We know tomit. You're cool.
- Adam Jackson
as are you and your lovely lady!
- tomit
http://playhimoffkeyboardcat.com/ That should keep everyone busy while Twitter is down!
- Adam Jackson
Half way there, we can do it!
- Greg Byrne
TWiT IRC Chat has moved - http://irc.dslextreme.com/
Michael Hansel, Eric Geller, Charlie Anzman and 2 other people liked this
@MaryHodder There's another chat that doesn't require signup. In future use http://irc.dslextreme.com during TWiT Live broadcasts. [from http://twitter.com/LeoLapo...]
- Leo Laporte
So the irc.twit.tv is now dead or will you run both?
- Lillian Banchik
from IM
As a sponsor I bet dsl extreme weren't happy about Leo moving off their server
- Greg Byrne
Just Clean up X chat a remover irc.dslextreme.com setup
- Michael Holzinger
So is the chat moving back leo?
- Willowdale
Chat is not at irc.dslextreme.com anymore, it is now at irc.twit.tv
- Steve Dickey
Ya this is darn confusing
- Greg
I think like someone had a brainfart, that dslextreme link redirects to the twit.tv chat
- Steve Dickey
ya or just turned on a computer with an old delicious post that got stuck in the tubes
- Greg
Dido...bad post by Leo, or staff, or rouge computer?
- mark dekruyter
Not really sure why this got picked up by friendfeed - but the chat hasnt moved.
- Dan Hendricks
Thanks for clearing things up, Dan.
- Nolan Alston
from BuddyFeed
Nope @oshunj I have no financial or other interests in FriendFeed. I just love the service and it is far more reliable than any other.
Daniel Rowley, courtney benson, Molly and 24 other people liked this
Lol, how many times ? :p
- Jim Braux-Zin
OK, OK Finally I'm trying it. Happy? :)
- Michael Caldicott
Michael: one at a time! Yes!
- Robert Scoble
Let me know if you need help. Lots of helpful people are hanging out here.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - it was down for nearly 6 minutes yesterday!
- Matthew DeVries
Just noticed Robert has linked to his Friendfeed account on his Twitter page. Love it!
- Greg Byrne
Greg: yeah, that's because friendfeed is where I aggregate all my life. My blog. My YouTube. My Flickr. My Upcoming. Everything I do comes here.
- Robert Scoble
I remember when you were on Net at Night with Leo and plugged FF rather than your blog, I thought that was insane, but now I understand.
- Greg Byrne
Yes, god this site is one hell of a place. Do you guys visit it dozens of times a day like me?
- David Lloyd
To be honest you can't buy the kind of PR that Friendfeed gets from Robert because its genuine. He really does love this site and couldn't live without it.
- David Lloyd
Mark: thank you. It is my goal every day to have an interesting conversation and friendfeed is the best place on the Internet to have conversations with other smart people. Hope that keeps on being that way for a long time.
- Robert Scoble
Isn't that the essence of "social"? Real, authentic suggestions and endorsements from friends? In politics, the best voter contact tool has always been a direct conversation with the candidate ... or a suggestion to vote for that candidate from a friend or relative. Online tools like FriendFeed have taken that age-old notion and made it real-time and much more efficient and effective. Only reason I ever tried FriendFeed was reading about Robert Tweeting and Blogging about it so much.
- Curt Mercadante
Welcome Michael!
- Rick Bucich
And one more important thing about FF - I strongly believe that it won't change it's social structure so that my social network of experts that i built with it becomes less valuable. When started, twitter was one for me - i sources news and opinions that *matter*. Now it's all noise and rat races
- Kirill Bolgarov
Ask: How do I install Firefox when Windows 7 doesn't ship with IE8? http://news.ycombinator.com/item...
Severin and Zackatoustra liked this
That was exactly the very first thing I wondered when I heard Microsoft executive declare that they decided "to their customer's best interests" to not ship IE8. I mean, they also could have decided to ship "AAAALLLL" of the browsers, and let the customers decide. "Yeah, Zack, but there are SSOOOO many browsers in there, that can run on Windows..." Oh yeah? How many? 6?10? No, really,...
more...
- Zackatoustra
If you print this in advance you could get Firefox over FTP: http://www.ehow.com/how_228...
- Greg Byrne
Sure. I'm seeing myself explaining to my grand'pa : "Ok, Grand'pa. You bought your brand new PC. Let me explain you quickstart you : this is a screeen. And we call that?...a mouse. Right : a mouse. And this is Windows, it's like the brain and soul of your computer, you see?..Good. Ok, now, if you want to go on The Internet, go and grab Firefox on their ftp server, will you?"
- Zackatoustra
You can use this search http://search.twitter.com/search... to find tweets coming from in and around Tehran. Spectacular, scary. #iranelection
Daniel Rowley, Nicholas James, Boris (aka electrouncle) and 6 other people liked this
Friendfeed doesn't have this does it?
- Greg Byrne
Live now... This Week In Tech with John C. Dvorak, Dwight Silverman, Doug Kaye, and Wil Harris. http://live.twit.tv. Discuss here....
George Brickner, Paul DeLeeuw, Veetrag and 56 other people liked this
Afternoon all
- Simon Wicks
There we go
- Iain
hi leo
- Jack McLoughlin
here we are, hello
- monkeystick
hi all
- Aubrey_Ingraham
Looks like a good lineup today
- Chris Heath
hi
- Dave
Darren Landrum, present and accounted for! :-)
- Darren Landrum
Hello
- Stephen Pickering
yo. looking forward to being a TWiT guest!
- Dwight Silverman
hey hop
- Robin Ramael
howdy all
- Chris Pugh
Great Lineup
- Stephen Pickering
Hello, world!
- Nate
Ah we can escape the madness of IRC
- Greg Byrne
cool to see wil in studio
- Aubrey_Ingraham
G'day from AussiMike
- Mike Aikins
Greetings from sunny Vancouver, B.C,
- Colin Clarke
the best line up in a while
- Ben Correll
This is more fun than IRC
- Stephen Pickering
Greetings from Austria
- Chris
Hi all
- Paul Blasman
w00t Dwight Silverman representing Texas in the house!!
- Andrew Johnson
And we're off!
- Bill Heslin
Hello from upstate New York -- Joe Gilbert
- Joe Gilbert
Whats up with Dvorak's picture? lol
- Donald Forth
Xbox Natal may be a front for a new xbox console leo - http://www.techradar.com/news...
- Michael Mooney
Greetings from Antarctica!
- Ross Johnson
John Durham, Redlands, CA
- John Durham
hello from london town
- AV
Greetings
- Corey Kliewer
Hello from Dublin
- Paulo Custodio
Like Oprah you wield power. Use it wisely (unlike Oprah)
- Gold
that's nice and constructive and mature AhronZombi
- Robin Ramael
/ignore ahronzombi
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Hello from Edinburgh
- Callum
feed went down?
- Ross Johnson
Leo will not be bought!
- Eduardo Contreras
Twitter making money (for DELL) - http://www.techradar.com/news...
- Michael Mooney
Woo! A European perspective!
- John Frazer
How do we go about blocking this rather cancerous (by quality of contribution) AhronZombi?
- 1x29
Is the Pre coming to T-Mobile.
- Eduardo Contreras
Adrian, click his name, then "Block this user"
- Greg Byrne
Is there anyway to move the Comment link in friend feed to below the latest post? Or to get the feed top down instead?
- 1x29
Dwight, you should have stopped by while you were up here. Oh, you don't know me....
- Lee
Looks like good panel today. I
- David Jones
Blocked
- David Lloyd
Thanks, Greg :)
- 1x29
oh cool, i didn't know! it's possible to block him here: http://friendfeed.com/ahronzo...
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Adrian click the time stamp
- Stephen Pickering
Congrats!! Dwight, you must be proud!
- Eduardo Contreras
Adrian Glave click the time stamp, click again an you'll get a pop out window
- Simon Wicks
screw you!
- Ross Johnson
Screw you!
- David Lloyd
time stamp?
- 1x29
i don't get a time stamp
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
blocked... Leo needs some mods in here to take care of the worst of the worst
- Chris Heath
facebook.com/screwyou
- Callum
Amazon's cloud was struck by lightning - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009...
- Michael Mooney
adrian: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co...
- Chris Heath
Thanks to Greg Byrne for pointing out how to block. AhronZombi blocked.
- Gold
Preternat: "10 minutes ago"
- Michael
"4 minutes ago" at the top
- Greg Byrne
It's at the top where the conversation time was started
- Stephen Pickering
the gilmore gang is crap
- AhronZombi
8 minutes ago is the time stamp thing..
- Simon Wicks
what the heck is dvorak's picture?
- Ross Johnson
You don't need moderators here. Each user is free to block whomever they want.
- Kevykev
breaking news: the Pre will be successful
- Jeremy Stanley
Sorted :) Thanks, all :)
- 1x29
Interesting that the feed is a little faster than the video feed. It's like it's clairvoyant.
- Scott Thomas
i disagree chris... a lot of blocks on someone should eventually become good metadata. i'm good with that
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
pre aint going to cause a shopping spree
- AV
Scoble is always saying how great FF is at moderation, we should make use of it
- Greg Byrne
AhronZombi:"Anarchy , hacking, and porn". You do know that Anarchy is not the same as being a complete wanker in public right?
- Gold
Gold, don't feed the troll
- Chris Heath
ah, thx y'all... yeah, time stamp at the top
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Any word on how open the Pre will be for programmers to develop for? As open as Android? Not as much?
- Darren Landrum
Everyone complains about ATT, am I the only one who has no complaints about their coverage. Okay they have a tower down the street from our house.
- Paul Blasman
14-year-old student finds new type of solar explosion - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009...
- Michael Mooney
I'm in an AT&T black hole
- HeavenLike
Paul, ever had to deal with ATT's customer service?
- Christopher A Carr
Paul, i only complain that there's no 3g in my city while smaller cities nearby have it
- Chris Heath
G1 (T-Mobile) and iTouch is better than switching to iPhone with AT&T.
- Gary Kostrivas
There's free tethering apps on T-Mobile for the G1!!!!
- Ross Johnson
Wil's right
- Jeremy Stanley
I've always assumed that all the Customer Service Reps suck!
- Paul Blasman
"Subsidy" http://i.gizmodo.com/5284318...
- Kevykev
Pre's biggest problem is going to be the next wave of phones running Android 2.0.
- Christopher A Carr
That's ATT hacking Dwight's connection
- Devon Blugh
iphone or pre?
- Paulo Custodio
I find t-mobiles's reps to be much better than ATT's.
- Christopher A Carr
Yup, interference gone :)
- 1x29
How can Palm not have any plans for a world GSM version yet?
- Thomas Søndergaard
AT&T realized they've been discovered...no more interference
- Devon Blugh
I think Android will suffer the same problem as Windows Mobile, multiple handset manufacturers and no consistency of user experience between phones.
- Callum
Should I pay for an ETF when the Pre comes to Verizon?
- Jeremy Stanley
Looks like according to the details, the full price only applied to people with the 3G iPhone...
- Jamison Judd
first palm needs to survive thomas
- vondutch
Thomas, I think they do, just no planned release date
- Devon Blugh
I've had positive experiences with both Windows Mobile and Android so far.
- Ross Johnson
Verizon doesn't line wifi on their phones though...
- Joel W Tscherne
But is it really worth it for Apple to create a CDMA iPhone?
- Michael
I was on verizon for 7 years. I loved verizon but i never liked any of their phones. I went to the iphone
- richie hernandez
Michael - how hard is it to make another chip?
- Paul Blasman
Verizon likes too much control on their handsets...
- Ari
verizon would love to have the iphone
- Chris Heath
My concern exactly Joel - I'll bet if the iPhone comes out on Verizon it doesn't have wifi
- Mark Moran
I don't think so Callum. The UI will be pretty consistent, and there are only so many handset styles that work well. WinMo sucks on it's own...
- Christopher A Carr
Paul - They need to write the drivers for the CDMA chipset, too. Put it through FCC testing, etc. I just don't know if it's worth it.
- Michael
Verizon turned down the iPhone. Think they would make a different decision now?
- Scott Thomas
I bought my iPhone in April so I'm stuck with the 3G for awhile. Of course I'll get the next version!
- Joel W Tscherne
You can get refurb 8Gig 3G for $79, that's a tempting upgrade
- Paul Blasman
Thats just mobileme, not the 3g s
- Simon Wicks
I realized that the iPhone 3GS and Palm Pre have the same CPU and graphics chips
- Matthew
You can turn it off on the phone too
- Mark Moran
paul $99 for the old 3g
- Chris Heath
And a thief can turn off the location service on the phone.
- Michael
cold medicine
- Scott Thomas
O2 Pre-Pay iPhone 3G 8GB - £342.50, iPhone 3G S 16GB - £440.40 & iPhone 3G S 32GB - £538.30
- Michael Mooney
Ahmedinejad!
- Michael
give up the link to the funny Apple commercial plz :)
- rob friedman
MobileMe is garbage IMHO.
- Bill Grant
There's a little uvular fricative in Ahmedinejad...
- Christopher A Carr
MobileMe is too expensive but it's nice when you rebuild a Windows PC and Contacts and Calendar items are synched to Outlook.
- Callum
To be fair to CNN, they're doing a much better job in Iran coverage today. They're still claiming they need us to wait until they properly package their coverage, though.
- Jim Stanger
I hope they mention the reasoned anaysis of the Iranian election here: http://www.tomstechblog.com/post... and not just claim CNN is dead
- Greg Byrne
LOL
- HeavenLike
it's not just CNN though
- Chris Heath
i think i would get mobileme if it was $52
- richie hernandez
Callum I agree, Mobileme should come with the iPhone service
- Paul Blasman
you can find mobileme greatly discounted lots of places, i think it's $69 at amazon
- James Tussey
Just use Google Sync instead of MobileMe... works great for me.
- Jason Hansen
I got it for $69 when I bought my new MacBook Pro
- Joel W Tscherne
It's entirely too easy to create fake Twitter accounts pretending to be anywhere in the world, though. How can we verify which Twitter accounts are genuine and which are not?
- Darren Landrum
content... not context on Twitter. Though journalism might not always get context right
- Jeremy Stanley
Good point Darren
- Callum
I heard on the radio this morning that foreign journalists are being arrested and confined to the hotels.
- Johnny Worthington
should get Scoble's wife on to talk about Tehran
- Chris Pugh
Yes, GPS did great coverage
- Jim Stanger
darren landrum over time, and vetting. it's not always possible, but usually
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Does anyone know if "The Daily Show's" Jason Jones is still in Tehran?
- Jeremy Stanley
@Callum: There were accusations of some of the Iranian Twitter accounts being fakes. It's hard to tell.
- Darren Landrum
Fareed Zakaria gets it.
- Ken Sheppardson
Were news outfits not aware that Iran was having elections?
- Bill Grant
there's a middle ground, though. CNN reporters can tweet just as well as any new iffy account
- Jim Stanger
In the end, we have to use our own intelligence and make our own decisions about what and who to trust.
- Darren Landrum
bill grant good point, but people should also demand it
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Are there any "Verified Accounts" from Twitter users in Iran?
- Ken Sheppardson
But how do you cover things when you are about to get arrested?
- Johnny Worthington
Apple need thier own digg site to take on AP & REUTERS with user content.
- Michael Mooney
@Ken yep... i guess the point is our first (not necessarily the best or most accurate) place to get breaking news might be twitter. The trending topics are amazing.
- Bill Grant
Can't trust eyewitness accounts. We don't know the real source of the tweets!
- Joel W Tscherne
but the MSM had people reporting from hotel rooms in Bagdhad while we were attacking. They can report under tough circumstances. they have for decades
- Jim Stanger
@Joel, i have to kinda agree, look at the Digg army and the faked front page stories as an example.
- Ryan Scullen
otoh i felt i usually got better overview with a weekly magazine or hour pbs show. up to the minute news isn't exactly highly enlightening, in general
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
HI all my first time in this.
- caffeinefreedavid
You should not take everything posted on twitter as gospel
- Greg
We only see something from one individual's point of view. Many conspiracy theories are still alive because ONE person claims to have seen something that can't be easily disproved.
- Joel W Tscherne
Leo, does a Re-Tweet count as a second source?
- Gabe
up-to-the-minute speculation is especially aggravating
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
I think the problem is that it was the weekend... the news stops then
- Jeremy Stanley
Then they jump on a story too quick and it's a prank call
- Mark Moran
no it doesn't gabe
- Chris Heath
if you Apple made it a yearly membership that will help
- Michael Mooney
Flickr has a great photostream
- Howard Losiewicz
The day CNN or any other "major news outlet" goes on the air to simply report on what they're reading on Twitter is the day they lose any last shred of credibility.
- Ken Sheppardson
agreed ken
- Chris Heath
I don't want my news channel to tell me what it means - I'll figure it out for myself
- Mark Moran
You're right Ken.
- kenneth glenn
Context is everything in live coverage
- Gabe
@Greg Agreed (on twitter <> gospel) but I think people used to think of the news media as gospel and this is also incorrect. People are better off taking lots of sources and drawing their own conclusions. This was mentioned during the last or second to last twit...
- Bill Grant
The reporters had an early night as they had been up getting their Facebook URLs
- Greg Byrne
This is the service that is summarizing the real-time web version of the Iran events - http://iran.twazzup.com/
- Chris Saad
Unfortunately old fashioned TV/Radio companies have cut their budgets so much that I'm surprised they do ANY live international reports
- Joel W Tscherne
If you want random 140 character anecdotes from anonymous sources, you've go Twitter. If you want somebody to spend a few hours collecting information, verifying sources, and asking follow-up questions, you've got CNN
- Ken Sheppardson
Bll Grant true but at least you know with networks where to complain.. it twitter u have anonymous postings
- Greg
Tell us when it means, no way. But, giving us information so we can evaluate for ourselves. They have access to lots of experts...ones that don't yell and scream their points.
- Jim Stanger
There is no rush. John nails it.
- Ken Sheppardson
yup
- Chris Heath
The BBC picked up the riots pretty quickly. They've been covering the whole event for weeks. Even a breaking news banner for CNN would suffice, regardless of edited footage, surely they have journalists on the street.
- Daniel Rowley
It's not about rush - it's about avoiding the filter
- Chris Saad
Why do we watch car chases? Because we're idiots.
- Ken Sheppardson
If stringers can provide accurate context and journalistic style coverage they would be worth paying leo
- Gabe
There are never any car chases where I live in North Carolina.
- Michael
@Greg I suppose, but I think people just assume journalists are by definition balanced when in reality everyone has a bias.
- Bill Grant
Great conversation, excellent guys!
- Ryan Massie
CNN is willing to go hours and hours with talking heads speculating on the newest detail of a missing girl story, but they won't do the same for major world events
- Jim Stanger
Haha Michael only once every 5 years
- kenneth glenn
When people are streaming video, is that mis-information?
- Colin
The newsrooms have been victim of cost cutting for years now. Cheaper to have shows with talking heads. Now, we can't get real news because they don't have people positioned in the hot spots of the world.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
cave man instinct. hard to overcome. like tribal prejudice. hmm, going of on tangent now :)
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
People want to always be the first to tell a story. It's why they can often be wrong!
- Joel W Tscherne
Kenneth - I'm just down the road from you in Chapel Hill, but within spitting distance of the Durham line.
- Michael
@Colin Interesting.... but we all know that even video can be misleading if taken out of context.
- Bill Grant
On the other hand, CNN will spend 6 hours on a fixed shot of some plane sitting on a tarmac speculating about what's going on inside with no real information whatsoever, so... there's a bit of a double standard.
- Ken Sheppardson
I mean we criticize them for that.
- Ken Sheppardson
CCCC - Car Chase Cable Channel
- Dave T
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
- Ken Sheppardson
Conversation is such a lame buzzword~~~
- Ross Johnson
CNN INternational had great coverage on Twitter and on their network this weekend. The people who decided NOT to switch to the International feed should be fired.
- joebrooks
24/7/365 live as it happens off a ticker kills the story for most viewers
- Michael Mooney
That's the definition of news isn't it, up to the date information.
- Daniel Rowley
I wonder if BBC was covering the events in Iran faster than the US new stations? Is the US new stations only caring about in-the-country-news?
- Ryan Scullen
why does the "twit live desktop 2.0" only do audio now? it used do video a few weeks ago. ....ah it worked as soon as I opened a twit live tab in my browser. Odd
- Ian Murphy
I was in Egypt recently and I was amazed about how different the CNN International stories were from the ones on CNN in the U.S.
- Bill Grant
Daniel: No. Live 24x7 streams of everything happening everywhere all the time isn't "news". "News" is somebody with some experience and judgement filtering out stuff that matters and flagging it for others.
- Ken Sheppardson
News isn't news if it isn't accurate. That just makes it rumor.
- Joel W Tscherne
They could certainly provide a background or base to help evaluate events when they happen. They have access to all sorts of historians and experts that can provide useful info without the speculation of the breaking news moment.
- Jim Stanger
jim stanger bugs me too... angers me. chichen and egg tho... also have to blame the consumer who's buying it.
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Ryan: the BBC were covering events way before CNN.
- Daniel Rowley
I also thought @BreakingNews on twitter was doing SUPERB coverage of the events in Iran.
- joebrooks
The other problem with TV news is the need to be commenting on every story. I don't care about pundit Joe Blow's opinion on a topic.
- Joel W Tscherne
Why isn't what I had for lunch "news"? Because it's irrelevant to everyone except me. We know that because "journalists" watch the live feeds and call our attention to what's important.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Richsanchezcnn was doing a better job than CNN recommending ppl to follow
- kenneth glenn
this show has more scoops than ben&jerry's
- vondutch
The role of journalism is to watch the live feeds and tell us what's important, what matters, and what's going to affect our lives.
- Ken Sheppardson
@donlemoncnn kinda angered me. It was along the lines of "hey I gave Iran 10min tonight. What more do you want?"
- Jim Stanger
...and verify. Check sources, make sure not so spread rumor, put things in context...
- Ken Sheppardson
however, he's on right now stepping it up tremendously.
- Jim Stanger
Joel - agreed. i see more straight to the actual events news here in canada. US has too many "news celebrities" that skew information WAY too much with their commentaries.
- Ryan Scullen
Good point Dwight. I love reading the same story in multiple ways in my rss reader.
- Joel W Tscherne
you can do a nearly 24/7/365 live as it happens off a ticker but you have to have content to help viewers understand the ticker news
- Michael Mooney
but Ken, those feeds offer a narrow view of a situation, with very little context. A remote aggregatior can't provide that reliably
- Gabe
What do you mean "but" Gabe? What did I say that you disagree with?
- Ken Sheppardson
I don't mean "feed" as in sit there watching Twitter, I mean everything that's happening everywhere. I was speaking figuratively. Sorry...
- Ken Sheppardson
@micheal that's why i don't understand why ccn cut ccn-text, that was very informative
- vondutch
Ken: I don't think news should just be information that affects our lives. We can understand and have reported information streamed to us without it necessarily having any direct impact upon us.
- Daniel Rowley
Whose picture is that on the video feed for TWIT? That bearded guy does not look like the chief cranky geek.
- Bill Grant
What about Libel or Slander. How can you trust what is being "reported"
- William
Bill, it's Dvorak's skype avatar
- Chris Heath
voice of san diego rocks!
- Jeremy Stanley
@Chris LOL thanks, must be as accurate as a SecondLife/WoW avatar
- Bill Grant
I'm saying that traditional journalism has the advantage of trained professionals on the ground rather than armatures that might not know what questions to ask, video to shoot, and could get themselves hurt if they are not careful
- Gabe
Daniel: I disagree. If it doesn't affect other people, it's not news. It's the journalists job to *explain* HOW it affects our lives.
- Ken Sheppardson
Classifieds (which is what Craigslist is destroying) was the crack cocaine of newspapers. Classifieds aren't related to the news or delivering the audience of news. Classifieds could appear anywhere that enough eyeballs collect. The audience for NEWS is differerent from the audience for classifieds. That so many newspapers depended upon the easy money of classifieds was a convenient drug. Now newspapers are going cold turkey and need to find how to live with the smaller NEWS audience.
- JR Holmes
bill, he used to have a rainbow clown hair avatar
- Chris Heath
@Ken - I disagree. What happens in Iran does not affect my life. That statement is only true the more local the story MIGHT be.
- Ryan Scullen
@Chris Now that sounds more accurate :-)
- Bill Grant
Ryan: I didn't say what's going on in Iran doesn't affect us. It does. The news outlets need to explain why. Tweets in isolation don't do that. Twitter is raw material.
- Ken Sheppardson
Hi. We probably chatted on irc. I like to continue conversation in a less crazy way and not that fast:) - Please 'friend' me or let's follow each other at Twitter @buckybit - Like to connect. Thanks, Twit Army:)
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
it would be nice if the major news programs at least had a ticker at the bottom. Wish they spent more on their research, correspondents and less on their gee wiz gimmicks.
- Kim Landwehr
Ken: how does it affect your day to day life unless you have family or travel plans to the area? My point is your statement is true for local stories, but not necessarily for international stories.
- Ryan Scullen
Journalism and news aren't just a matter of narrating what you're watching. You need to have context and explanation.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Ryan This Earth is getting smaller, 100 years ago I bet someone could say something happening a state over doesn't affect him/her.
- Bill Grant
Ryan, I don't agree at all. That's like saying what happened in Afghanistan in 2000 didn't effect us. This is Iran, a country our leaders love trying to make the next bad guy. What happens there will effect all of us.
- Jim Stanger
Nigel Planer did an episode of Carpool which was a good watch
- Iain
Does Friendfeed have other "conversations"? Like for the Iran Election?
- Randy Willard
Libel/Slander: If you mess up as a journalist, like make stuff up, then you don't work again in the business. You'll then have to become a blogger or find another industry.
- William
Ryan: Great question. I'm sure if you watch The News Hour on PBS on Monday they'll have 10-15 minutes with experts who'll put it all in context for us. Or, we can just watch random tweets from people allegedly in Iran.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Bill Grant The compressed world is what makes it important to me. As Jim illustrated, it is important because the US will need to respond in some manner and that will cost you money.
- JR Holmes
Randy, this is a 'room' or 'group' created by leo for the specific purpose of discussing the live stream shows ... there's nothing stopping someone from starting an 'iran-election' group - but getting people to coalesce around the group is the hard part... that doesn't happen easily/quickly
- Chris Heath
Randy: Other FriendFeed conversations on the Iran elections - http://friendfeed.com/search...
- Ken Sheppardson
@JR 100% agree... Things that happen in other countries matter to me in a way that might not have affected my great grandparents in their time.
- Bill Grant
yeah ken, a search is a good way to find stuff
- Chris Heath
Jim - I agree that stories can impact us later, but international stories tend to have less of a direct impact compared to national stories.
- Ryan Scullen
I really like the new friend feed, they've done a good job improving it to make it useful.
- Bill Grant
OK, I'm not familiar with FF yet, and wondered if it was possible. thanks
- Randy Willard
i back john.c's comment
- Michael Mooney
@Ryan Well true that the things that affect you most are the closest (at least usually).
- Bill Grant
in a bigger context, i see vetting (eg journalistic) sources as an essential act that everyone should learn... as demonstrated even here, in ff. i need to be able to assess, then depend on a hierarchy of reliable sources above me. it takes time to do that
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Ken - news organizations can get access to more 'official' sources of news (aka government representatives) but we all know that PR does not tell the real story. tweets as raw info, at least to me, is more valuable. RTs don't count. twitpics = more legitimacy.
- Ryan Scullen
@Ryan True. I just cringe when we as a nation don't pay attention to something that happens beyond our borders until it's about to bite us in the keester. Forewarned/Forearmed doesn't seem to apply to our society.
- Jim Stanger
The web's going to take over the console business
- Stephen Pickering
Sims 3 sets franchise record 1.4 million copies in first week http://news.cnet.com/8301-10...
- Jim Lyons
low cost, small sized games like Tetris are the way to make money
- Michael Mooney
my first real use of ff... i wish i could see avatars to help me remember what comments belong to who
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
My current favorite game is the NY Times Crossword app on my iPhone!
- Joel W Tscherne
Jim - once news organizations have a crystal ball to tell us the future with 100% accuracy, I'm ditching web news and watching tv news again lol.
- Ryan Scullen
World of Goo anyone???
- Ross Johnson
Leo: Basis for that statement, please.
- Ken Sheppardson
which statement (for me and for the record here)? :)
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
sounds like an eeePC model #
- Gabe
That's the plot for Deep Impact. 14 year old spots the comet first
- Joel W Tscherne
"Sepulveda [Pivotal Labs], whose group builds applications for companies wanting mobile offerings, said he’s advising his clients — Twitter, BestBuy and Salesforce among them — to start on the Pre. The phone’s operating system, called WebOS, offers the most compelling place to build and test a prototype, for both cost and technology reasons, he said." -- http://venturebeat.com/2009...
- Ken Sheppardson
give palm pre some time for people to develope before you write it off
- Omar Atin
Did I just hear that right, one side of the USB ports on a Mac are better than the other?
- Bill Grant
yup
- Ross Johnson
Something wrong with the mac? This bit will be edited out
- Greg Byrne
I would like to start dev for the Pre, but I don't think its got the base OS to pull off a casual games platform. I read on Gizmodo i think that the Pre's REAL target competition will be the blackberry.
- Ryan Scullen
"Got a Pre? Like Nintendo? If you fit in the overlapping intersection of that particular Venn diagram, then have I got some good news for you. Some enterprising individuals over at the Pre Dev Wiki have gotten a NES emulator up and running on the Palm Pre." -- http://www.crunchgear.com/2009...
- Ken Sheppardson
You need to have a puppet TWiT!
- Ryan Massie
I moved off of this conversation and I have no idea how to get back.... Now I need to keep hitting the comment link at the top every time. This could be a little more intuitive.
- Bill Grant
Doom on the Palm Pre - http://www.engadget.com/2009...
- Ken Sheppardson
I think we just heard this weeks title "Face Squatting"
- Paul Blasman
xbox live + XNA Game Studio 3.1 is the way to go
- Michael Mooney
bill hit the time link to the left instead
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
The one that was interesting was default.aspx that I saw
- Bill Grant
@Ken and @Greg -- thanks guys! That was not obvious (to me at least)
- Bill Grant
omg the dot is ignored. I feel silly now. i actually spent a few minutes and considered whether to put the dot in my name or not.
- Jim Stanger
there is a tie in Wil, its called FriendFeed
- Gabe
This must the best/funniest Facebook name grab: http://pauliukas.com/randomf...
- Paulius G
jim and bill... this techy stuff is just unnatural!
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
I got nothing at Facebook. I have no desire to get a Facebook account
- Greg
Y'all are assuming people want totally overlapping professional and personal social graphs. That's certainly not the case.
- Ken Sheppardson
At one point when FF was going through its beta upgrade they had a link to thread button, don't know why they removed it
- Greg Byrne
Or... in six months we will have forgotten about Face Book when the next great thing comes out
- Paul Blasman
myspace is the new AOL
- Gabe
Jim, I had the same issue when i found my name. It is not clear.
- Judith Gerdin
The name grab was insane. It's a fraking _walled_community_!!
- Gold
It WAS a walled community
- Stephen Pickering
It also has the same stigma as AOL too.
- Gold
Oh wow - he just advocated to hand over the entire social web to Facebook - genius :S
- Chris Saad
@Ken Cadby Hah!... Well I guess I can program a computer but that doesn't mean I know how to use one... ;-)
- Bill Grant
I sorta think the only services really threatened by Facebook are MySpace (direct competitor) and Classmates.
- Ken Sheppardson
i'm surprised classmates is still around
- Chris Heath
Broadband killed AOL. It was more of a connectivity platform rather than a social platform
- Stephen Pickering
Chris - yeah me too
- Paul Blasman
Facebook is not using OAuth or OpenID (OpenID is promsied)
- Chris Saad
Stephen: _Was_ a walled garden? How is it not now? I still get links where I need to log in to see things. Can't think of a time it's not been this way.
- Gold
@bill grant are you a fan of caffeine?
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Yes, you are right. I grant you that
- Stephen Pickering
Chris: Well, considering we've ranged from the Iran elections to video games to social networking, I think we maybe just have to nod and take this all with a grain of salt. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken - the competition is not even close. MySpace is the like AOL, Facebook is like Google.
- Ryan Scullen
Gold - I agree that is why I've stayed away from FB.
- Paul Blasman
Classmates must make money from organizing reunions. Who would pay to contactsomeone you do not remember.
- Judith Gerdin
Ryan: Fine. I'll concede the point. The only people who should fear Facebook is Classmates :-D
- Ken Sheppardson
Caffeine. Mmmmmmmm
- Randy Willard
And Leo just explained why Facebook will never "take over"
- Ken Sheppardson
Paul Blasman: I've stayed away due to the T&C. I have no problem with the walled garden but the T&C are draconian.
- Gold
Ken - lol I never liked the idea of classmates from the beginning - too much spam linking
- Ryan Scullen
Gold - I didn't even want to go there!
- Paul Blasman
Leo - you should be checking out your daughter account
- Paul Blasman
3 million usernames have been claimed since Friday night ... in the first 14 hours, that is
- Ken Sheppardson
Paul Blasman - Heh. :) I've had one friend from Auckland, NZ appear on those damned "This guys I.Q. is x. What's yours?" ads. He followed it up and they said they purchased it from Facebook.
- Gold
facebook landgrab was soooo over hyped. Just another excuse for bloggers to have something to write about and for people to have another thing added to their business cards
- Ross Johnson
Whether you have a vanity URL makes no difference, facebook has a search function: http://www.facebook.com/abbylap...
- Greg Byrne
Omg that's funny
- Paul Blasman
Heard from a colleague: kids are going to twitter with private profiles to keep the older people out.
- Bill Grant
@Greg That works if you have a relatively unique name or as long as you post a picture...
- Bill Grant
Fastest Growing Demographic on Facebook - Women over 55 (2/2/2009) http://www.insidefacebook.com/2009...
- Ken Sheppardson
lotta college kids on facebook. facebook can't die. it can be bought tho.
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
66% are 18-34
- Ken Sheppardson
78% are under 34
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, do the math.
- Judith Gerdin
only 8% are older than 45
- Ken Sheppardson
Once it becomes main stream, the geeks and the college kids will come up with something else
- Paul Blasman
Which math, Judith?
- Ken Sheppardson
...you mean the fact that the F>55 segment is growing fastest because it was almost nonexistent before? ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
sigh
- Greg
Ken: between 18-34 and under 34 you're at 144%
- Gold
Gold: under 34 includes 18-34
- Ken Sheppardson
as you might expect
- Ken Sheppardson
Dont forget the total number of accounts vs the total number of active posting accounts is not the same.. just like twitter
- Greg
Ken: and I look like a bloody idiot. ;)
- Gold
Leo you already have LeoLaporte
- rob friedman
erm /LeoLaporte
- rob friedman
That's his fan page
- Stephen Pickering
ya, well, once a URL is used you can never reclaim it unless it's trademark. so his fan page is him. :)
- rob friedman
That'll teach me for only reading half the discussion. I should get back to work. :/
- Gold
All fan pages with a thousand fans or more got automatically assigned a while back
- Stephen Pickering
Gold: No, I should've thought that out more before I posted... the way I wrote it was inviting that sort of interpretation... :-/.
- Ken Sheppardson
Died in the US, right?
- Ken Sheppardson
Still alive and kicking everywhere else?
- Ken Sheppardson
Can't wait for flash on the Pre so I can watch Leo on the go.
- jcunwired
ken - yea us only, canada is still kickin analogue till aug. 2011
- Ryan Scullen
Excuse me while I burry my 9-inch black & white in the back yard lol
- Paul Blasman
very scandalous
- rob friedman
I'm still going to keep my 9" black and white for my Apple ][+ monitor
- Ken Sheppardson
I feel bad for the senior citizens but for anyone under the age of 65, if you didn't follow the hundreds of mentions of this conversion to digital, you might not deserve digital tv.
- Bill Grant
Did you PAY for that phone?
- Ken Sheppardson
lol ken
- Chris Heath
Ken - mine is the TV I used for my Timex Sinclair ZX80
- Paul Blasman
Right... because that's the case, right?
- Ken Sheppardson
If you have cable, you don't need to change anything.
- Ken Sheppardson
I missed something.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'll have to re-scan my Road Runner cable to see if the analog is still there
- Paul Blasman
Yup... Comcast is flip-flopping http://www.mercurynews.com/technot...
- Ken Sheppardson
I have Comcast and try using them with a cable card, they are hopeless.
- Kim Landwehr
If not for wanting live sports, I'd just go to Hulu and streaming exclusively.
- Ken Sheppardson
No, Leo is giving them away under a new promo called PreCrunch :)
- jcunwired
cable is coax. can be ran straight to TV, or a cable box. straight to TV still broadcasts in analogue over coax. so comcast is illegally shutting off analogue over coax, cause if they can get 60% or more subscribers (i think, might be 80%) onto cable boxes, they can force everyone to switch.
- Ryan Scullen
sorry my bad, those are rules for canada... not US... rules are probably different.
- Ryan Scullen
What happened to this FCC ruling - "FCC Takes Action To Prevent Cable Companies From Dropping Digital Broadcast Networks From Analog Cable" - http://consumerist.com/299517...
- Ken Sheppardson
Cool. People are starting up their proxies to help out the people in Iran. For example: http://twitter.com/HansPet... Awesome!
- Holger Eilhard
Sony Bravia is high end expensive
- rob friedman
"DVR" will just turn into a local cache
- rob friedman
Bandwidth caps are the cable industry's attempt to preserve their business model. As DSL and the long-hoped-for wireless broadband get bigger, they run the risk of losing customers to competitors who don't do that limit.
- JR Holmes
Well, Wil just got a ~100 follower bump.
- Ken Sheppardson
gonna try and be Wil's 14,000th. In 3...2...1...
- Jim Stanger
Bingo. 14K
- Ken Sheppardson
Got it!
- Jim Stanger
just added wil
- Paul Blasman
oh...wait
- Jim Stanger
:)
- Jim Stanger
No talk about EU/IE8 when there's an EU guest?
- John Frazer
What BART station is that John uses for his background on Twitter?
- Ken Sheppardson
What is John talking about, he is almost at 55,000 followers. Didn't he just ask to get up to 50,000?
- Bill Grant
Oh look at her eye's, she's soo blasted
- Paul Blasman
wow shes um yeah
- Alfredo
Benadryl
- Ken Sheppardson
that was cool
- rob friedman
oof nice gaf
- rob friedman
Man, Letterman and Leo... pickin' on the 14 year olds this week... ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
hahahaha
- Alfredo
lol ken!
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
http://www.youtube.com/watch... canadian switch ad
- Chris Heath
the english foreign guy needs to get on mic better :)
- rob friedman
awesome falsetto
- rob friedman
that url should go here if anyone has it?
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Rob Friedman: did you just say English and Foreign in the same sentence. LOFL
- Bob Blunk
yea, :) well I didnt' want to say that any of his Guests were, except the guy who is, and off mic. :)
- rob friedman
Sorry, posted wrong link first. Second one is correct.
- Daniel Rowley
hey hey heyyyyy watching the rerun lol
- Q B
Got to have the Mashable team on more often. ;)
- Ben Parr
You should have talked about my video coverage from Computex http://techvideoblog.com/categor... , the ARM laptops cost only 100 dollars and will replace Apple, Microsoft and Intel
- Charbax
Live now: Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott . http://live.twit.tv. Discuss here...
Daniel Rowley, Alfredo, Loren Heiny and 7 other people liked this
Enjoy the live show Leo / Paul ...
- Jeff
Leo, you should just post these show chat threads to the TWiT Conversations group, so people can opt not to see them (PS love the retro album art)
- Greg Byrne
I've been listening to the show since episode 5, first time watching. MORE people need to watch, this is excellent!!
- Jim Connolly
where are the chat rooms? can someone send the links please?
- Jeff
irc.twit.tv
- Steve Hampton
thx steve ..
- Jeff
Ohh noes i missed it agggghhhh! I had a question for Paul
- John Brazel
They were recording ahead for Leo's trip to China. They are getting ready to do the podcast for this week.
- Steve Hampton
This TWIT group (and another) done appear in groups any more on the right hand side any ideas?
- Ed Mason
Item 1: Microsoft will sell Windows 7 "E" Editions in Europe only No IE 8 included
- Leo Laporte
Item 2: Related: Windows 7 marches to final Build 7229 has leaked, Build 7300 is the RTM escrow build
- Leo Laporte
Item 3: Related" Memo reveals temporary Vista/7 Upgrade pricing $49.99 Home Premium $99.99 Professional
- Leo Laporte
Item 4: Bing is off to a fast start Maybe Microsoft is finally onto something Jumped from 7 to 10+ percent usage share in less than two weeks Early jump hasn't fallen back
- Leo Laporte
Item 5: "News" surfaces about Morro Free AV solution coming soon can't say too much right now, but assume I'm on top of this
- Leo Laporte
Norton is going to hate that
- Jason Tullos
WHAT apple makes changing to bing hard. NO
- Jason Tullos
Item 6: WWDC: What's in it for a Windows user? New iPhone 3G S - "controversy" over iPhone 3G upgrades New iPhone 3.0 OS Software Update - minor update, free, coming next week Real controversy over two features: MMS, tethering - not in the US (at least not at first) Apple's BS comparison of Snow Leopard and Windows 7 BTW: Every OS X upgrade should cost $29; this is a good starting point...
more...
- Leo Laporte
I'm kinda mad I have a first gen iPod touch for 3.0 ill have to pay apple for the 3 time for an upgrade give me a break
- Jason Tullos
Tell them Paul
- Jason Tullos
Apple also ignores all the existing PalmOS apps... 50,000+
- Ken Sheppardson
@Ed: worse than that, I'm sure I'm subscribed but if I browse/edit "all groups" it isn't there at all. Have to search or find it in the home feed. A puzzle.
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
@Paul or any of you TwiT army folk any idea where i can find a windows7 driver for my jabra BT-620s headset? Nothing on jabra's site and win7 cant "find" the driver. Please help, i dont want to have to return it to amazon and i was hoping it may also work with the iPhone 3Gs i preordered today.
- John Brazel
@john have you tried the vista driver?
- Jason Tullos
The problem with the Google Apps plugin is it's a plugin. I'm running it. There are many other plug-in options. What's missing is a solution for replacing Exchange that doesn't require yet another app on the desktop.
- Ken Sheppardson
@John I agree with Jason, the Vista driver should work. They are the same as Vista drivers.
- Mister IQ
@jason i jumped from XP to win 7 so i dont know where to get the vista driver to try as an alternate
- John Brazel
I mean 7 drivers are the same as Vista drivers.
- Mister IQ
if you got a link that would be great, thx!
- John Brazel
@jason Thx man!
- John Brazel
It look great, it a good demo
- Jason Tullos
@john np
- Jason Tullos
Audible Pick: Master and Commander, Book 1 of the Aubrey/Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian. http://www.audible.com/adbl...
- Leo Laporte
@john or http://www.jabra.com/sites...
- Jason Tullos
Tip of the Week: Living la Vida 7 means living like you have Mac OS X Sometimes "going all in" requires a bit of rethinking. In this case, pre-populating the Windows 7 taskbar with all the shortcuts you regularly use and forgoing the Start Menu almost entirely.
- Leo Laporte
Software of the Week: 1. Mozilla Firefox Add-on Collector Pre-define all the Firefox add-ons you want and install them in a single click. Nice for reinstalls https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US... Thanks to Jason More for the tip.
- Leo Laporte
2. Game Booster "Designed to help optimize your PC for smoother, more responsive game play in the latest PC games with the touch of a button, Game Booster helps achieve the performance edge previously only available to highly technical enthusiasts. It works by temporarily shutting down background processes, cleaning RAM, and intensifying processor performance. That means you can keep...
more...
- Leo Laporte
72 year old grandmother tasered. Not cool #insane http://www.mahalo.com/kathryn...
Paul Buchheit, Gordon Saunders, Christian Burns and David Lloyd liked this
Silly wench shouldn't have resisted the police, or been speeding in the first place.
- David Lloyd
maybe the police need to be trained not to use their "less than lethal" weapons unless absolutely necessary.
- Scott Ohlemacher
She SHOULD NOT have been tasered for any reason .. her advanced age plus taser very well could = death .. @Mark silly wench? really now..The officer couldn't overpower a 72 year old lady? WEAK!
- John Blanton
from twhirl
Why was the old dear shouting and getting aggressive and cursing? I say 50000 volts will calm anyone down ;)
- David Lloyd
@Mark If the taser is considered non-lethal then why has it killed people already? Police shouldn't be able to use it whenever they think it's warranted. I can't believe taser use is left up to the officer and not policy
- John Blanton
from twhirl
I'm not going to comment if the tasering was right or wrong. However, I don't understand why people that are older always bring up their age. Is that really necessary? If she didn't refuse to sign the ticket, none of this would have happened.
- Jason Hansen
did she yell at the cops, "DON'T TASER ME BRO, DON'T TASER ME BRO!"
- Lenny Wong
A lot of older people seem to think opening a conversation stating their age; "I'm 63 you know" should demand them greater respect just because they have been alive longer. Respect is earned, not given freely.
- Greg Byrne
@Mark: You're not seriously suggesting that any one that speeds deserves to be tasered, are you?
- 321
Seth Godin has wonderful advice this morning for unemployed college graduates http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_b...
Alex, Altan Khendup, Daniel Rowley and 12 other people liked this
Sweet commentary-find, Chris. So much that I reposted it on my Facebook( I know a few recent college graduates who could use the insight into "Plan B"..
- Terence
This is great, I'll be needing it in a month.
- Greg Byrne
Interesting, Mike Arrington deleted the TechCrunch account on friendfeed. My additional thoughts are on mobs and this here:
Liviu Barbat, Gordon Saunders, Simone Lovati and 181 other people liked this
be right back with more.
- Robert Scoble
That makes me sad because it was my favorite tech blog to click "like" on. I talked with Mike this morning at an event and he said last night was one of the worst he's ever lived through with the amount of hatred aimed at him. He deleted 600 Techcrunch comments, too, he told me.
- Robert Scoble
Wow, interesting.
- Kevin Whalen
Some of the comments I've seen on both sides of the aisle are pretty damn repugnant. I've had that kind of stuff aimed at me in the past and it's never fun.
- Robert Scoble
he pissed off Leo's hardcore fans
- David Lloyd
wow, deleted the tc account. Scoble: what do you think are going to be the long term implications of this?
- ming yeow
It just goes to show that people love to pay attention to negative things, but rarely to positives, or when people make efforts to make up for past misgivings. Sad, but human nature.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Funny, I remember helping push a mob against some people I really didn't like and a friend really ripped into me for doing that. My friend was right, of course. Interesting that not many people are speaking up against the kinds of comments (aimed personally, not at the substance of what happened). I want to be counted as one of those who stood up personally against the kind of comments I've seen.
- Robert Scoble
600 hateful comments? Puts a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. Have had the occasional hate comments but never to that extent
- David Weedmark
I didn't dig into those treads too much but imagine they got pretty nasty, probably more so on digg. too bad though, i used FF to find lots of TC content
- sean percival
Mark: and Leo should call them back and tell them shame. The kinds of things I've seen against Mike (and some against Leo too) are just awful. People saying that Mike should get cancer and die and worse.
- Robert Scoble
That seems weird.. Why would anyone delete an account on FF. Were they a lot of hateful comments posted to his account?
- Bindu Reddy
thats fucked up Robert.
- David Lloyd
David: Given the number of people who hate Arrington's guts, 600 doesn't seem too bad. Just one person harassing you over a period of years over the net (as I've had) is much worse than 600 random people digging at you once and then going away.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Very strange... Was it hacked?
- Hugo Romano
But don't you think due to a LOT of pent up frustration against Mike? His attitude has always been a point of contentment amongst lots of people i know.
- ming yeow
Bindu: Mike is actually a pretty sensitive guy beneath a lot of bluster. I'm to blame for pushing the friendfeeders to poke at Mike.
- Robert Scoble
ming: there's some of that that's Mike's fault too. But when mobs happen they always go overboard.
- Robert Scoble
SCOBLE: I was the one who posted the video on youtube (MPB326) that everyone has been linking to and I have gotten the 700+ comments to my email account. I can't believe some of the stupid things people are saying on YouTube. Terrible stuff! I was actually thinking about deleting the video.
- Mike Bracco
Sorry but he shouldn't have deleted his FF account. He should have stayed the storm. I think what he said to Leo was out of line, but to receive the vitriol he has is unnecessary. I think he deserves criticism, but not cancer threats.
- kenneth glenn
Yeah that's really screwed up. If those people want to get pissed off at something, come to a third world country and take a gander at all the "real" abuses people do. Talk about making you sick ...
- Nick in Manila
scobe: roger that. I like leo a lot, but that seemed to be an overreaction by him. then the mobs wayyyy over reacted
- ming yeow
ming: and go far further than the problem that incited them in the first place. And Mike rarely gets personal, as far as I have seen, even when his barbs are aimed at something I've done.
- Robert Scoble
Mike acts like a dick. Then again, so do I. I used to have a hate-on for him myself until I realized that really, he's a lot like me... Ballsy and annoying on the outside, but a real human with real feelings on the inside. I'm not afraid to call him a jerk to his face, but that's his behaviour I'm commenting on, not him personally.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I don't get why people feel so compelled to fling poo at Michael. He says contentious things, has strong opinions, and sometimes screws up...that makes him human and reasonably interesting. I think that is a good thing.
- Neal Jansons
Chris: we're all dicks once in a while. I think that's part of being human. Far as I know there's only one perfect human who has walked on the earth and I bet even he wasn't perfect if we actually could get to know him.
- Robert Scoble
Neal: Everyone loves taking everyone else down a notch or two. Primate dominance games.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Mike it would be better to post the follow up video on youtube. It was an interesting conversation and would help put everything into context.
- Benjamin Taylor
Neal: Chris nailed it. We love building people up and then dragging them down. I told Mike that whenever I've gotten a shit storm to form it's been when I've been at my most interesting.
- Robert Scoble
Benjamin - yeah I wish I also captured the conversation a little while after between Arrington and Leo where they talked it out.
- Mike Bracco
This is sad
- Johni Fisher
Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does.
- Robert Scoble
Leo has this massive army of supporters, and many more who probably found the clip and came to support him. These weren't neutral third parties giving their honest opinion on the incident, they were Leo supporters through and through. I can't blame him for deleting the account, because I was reading the comments, and they were tough.
- Colin
I'm really surprised that Mike still, after all the crap he gets, feels hurt from these comments by people. But last night he and Leo were both discussing how these comments about "mike should die" are not from reasonable, of right mind people. I'm sad that he takes those comments to heart. And I'm sad that trolls thrive in this place (the internet) I love.
- Lise
Has Leo said anything to his supporters about their attacks on Mike since yesterday, by the way?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
As much as we all may like and respect Arrington, it just seems as if he was trying to create news at Leo's expense.
- Stuart Tracte
Chris, Robert: I know, but Mike is center of poo-flinging more often than most, and he got freaking SPIT on and had his family threatened last year. It just amazes me, and honestly, each snafu just makes me more sympathetic with him personally (I still sometimes disagree with him, professionally, of course, but that is just the biz).
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Colin: yeah, and Leo should have spoken to his audience and told them to stay professional. But that will come back to Leo someday. These things always do, which is why my friend was correct when he told me never to push a mob.
- Robert Scoble
I missed TWiT so I don't know if Leo brought it up or not during the show, but I hope he took an opportunity to tell others that its not their place to fight Mike on Leo's behalf. Especially after they made up.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
But Robert, working your ass off isn't an excuse for behaving badly to people or acting the way arirngton has in the past. Hard work doesn't mean you get to be a jerk
- David Lloyd
Neal: yeah, some people become larger than life and it makes people feel that it's OK to do pretty outrageous things against them.
- Robert Scoble
Chris: He didn't. I'm not sure he's even aware of the comments Mike got.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Leo said at the end of his TWIT feed that he "had trouble sleeping last night." Perhaps because of this brou-ha-ha?
- Steve Burgess
Vlad: Thanks. That's a shame, I think it'd be really good for both sides if Leo did come out and say this to everyone. Even if he just recorded a short video clip and tossed it up, standalone.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Whatever either of them say at this point, it has gone beyond them and their ability to "do" anything
- Susan Reynolds
Robert, Leo could have said "please stay professional" a thousand times but come on, this is the internet. Do trolls, who are always ready for a fight, listen to that?
- Lise
Susan: Perhaps, but it would still help allow cooler minds and attitudes to prevail and in a shorter time than if they remain silent.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Mark: I think Arrington would agree with you.
- Robert Scoble
Chris: He brought the incident up, but didn't calm anyone down. Again, I'm not sure he's aware of what's been going on.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Also, the Gillmor Gang section is gone: http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/
- Greg Byrne
i still post all my posts here. i can post the other TC ones if you guys want too.
- MG Siegler
Chris, that's true, but there are still a vast army of followers who think they are in the right and just go off half cocked - and stay that way
- Susan Reynolds
Lise: true too.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Lise: probably not, but my friend's words ring true: to hold back mobs as much as possible.
- Robert Scoble
This is 1. not a surprise & 2. mobs are not at the behest of the personalities they follow. They are mobs. Mobs glom onto some perceived raison d'etre and go. If Arrington, after all of his time pushing buttons and twisting tits, is surprised by this, well, he's a whole hell of a lot dumber than he ever gets credit for being.
- Dave Martin
Leo and Steve had a big fight last night: bottom line is GG is off the twit network
- David Lloyd
MG: that would be cool. Techcrunch was my #1 most "liked" feed here on friendfeed.
- Robert Scoble
People saying stupid things in comments? This is nothing new. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with it anymore.
- Dean Clark
perhaps someone could set up an acocunt that will link to TC articles as they are posted in real time
- David Lloyd
Susan: "Madness is rare in individuals--but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I hope he recreates it.
- Johnny Worthington
Dave: I don't think he's surprised by it, just shocked at how bad it's gotten.
- Robert Scoble
Perhaps someone could write a piece detailing the mob situation, defending Arrington, and encouraging him to come back, maybe this is it.
- Colin
Dave Martin: I get why he's surprised. There's always a disconnect between someone like him and the so called community, and also there's always a mob waiting to be formed.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Not all of those comments were hateful. he pissed me off more when he deleted mine. I pointed out what he said and then opined that I didn't think it was enough and he deleted this: http://ff.im/3FDfA
- Jimminy Fuller
Big names, little names, it's still hard to see hateful things aimed your way. Intellectually most of us understand, but emotions sometimes get in the way even to the big fish
- Susan Reynolds
wtf happened? i missed it and am sorry whatever came to this has come to this.
- jeneane sessum
Chris: good quote! My history teacher in College simplified that to "the masses are asses."
- Robert Scoble
Maybe he is just shocked that not only Leo's community attacked him but also his "loyal" techcrunch community gave him a bashing
- David Lloyd
Robert, I see your point, but I don't need to be told to refrain from attacking someone. I saw what happened. I wish Leo hadn't gotten *so* angry but I respect that he feels passionately. He was defending his integrity. So that I respect. I respect Mike for handling it all so well and not throwing F bombs back. And I love Leo. But I wasn't going to curse Mike or wish death upon him. So those that did, there's no changing them.
- Lise
Jeneane: Mike and Leo got into it on Gillmor Gang yesterday. There's a whole thread about that.
- Robert Scoble
Not sure how taking TC off FF relates to the problems Arrington was having in comments on his blog. ?
- Nick in Manila
TechCrunch Question: I noticed that my comments on FF for TechCrunch articles also appeared as part of TC's comments on their site. Is that part of FF API?
- Mike Bracco
Nick: the most hostile comments were in FF comments
- David Lloyd
Jeneane: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co...
- Vlad Bobleanta
Mark: Aha.
- Nick in Manila
oh jeez. thx robert. i'm sorry to hear that. sounds like the chorus got active. - thanks for the link Vlad. had no idea.
- jeneane sessum
Mike: You can import FF comments onto Wordpress posts via a plugin
- Nicholas James
Lise: good point, but I've learned that if leaders call on their followers to behave appropriately then they usually do. I don't want anyone who calls for someone else to get cancer to read me, by the way. I am here to have great conversations about tech. Keep it on the tech and we'll have a great time.
- Robert Scoble
Lise, Robert, the hateful comments say more about the idiots who write them than about the two personalities about which the angry words swirl
- Susan Reynolds
Nick: death threats etc
- David Lloyd
Lise: There are those who were ready to tear Arrington to shreds, at least until the mutual apologies of him and Leo came out on TechCrunch. At least, I can't believe I'm the only one who felt like that. Some angry people can be assauged.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Mark: Not sure I agree. The Youtube comments are terrible.
- Mike Bracco
it's difficult to be surprised by the size of this reaction.like it or not, you guys are celebrities.
- Stuart Tracte
Mike: no, Techcrunch had a Wordpress Plugin that was doing that. That Plugin has been removed, too.
- Robert Scoble
Colin: I think the general flip-out crazy needs to be addressed, but it needs to be by an A-lister so everyone sees it. The whole way these things are happening makes the whole industry look insane and unprofessional.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Stuart: The size, yes. The venom of it, though?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
shouldnt be too hard to make an unofficial ff account for techcrunch posts
- David Lloyd
someone wanna go do it?
- David Lloyd
Stuart: that's the thing. We're also people and Mike is sensitive like the rest of us (even if he has built a persona that shows him as above it all).
- Robert Scoble
Mark: Surprised if someone hasn't already beaten us all to it.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Mark: I'd rather not do that. I'd rather someone at Techcrunch does that.
- Robert Scoble
There are a few existing TC accounts from their feed.
- Benjamin Taylor
Scoble's made the point that FF has structural features to control that kind of stuff. Guess it was overwhelmed.
- Nick in Manila
Chris C, so you were one of the ones wishing death upon Mike until he apologized?
- Lise
well im sure if Arrington took it down, it is probably TC policy not to have FF account, his other writers wont make one
- David Lloyd
Fanboys are going to follow whatever lead they're directed. If Leo had said that Mike had terrible BO, there'd be thousands of Leo disciples telling Arrington to get himself some deodorant. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.
- Jay Caruso
hows this http://friendfeed.com/techcru...
- Jack
Leo is well-spoken, he makes things sound good, he's a well-known likeable guy, and he was the one on video, that's a lot of things going for him if you ignore everything else that's going on, and people do. Just mob mentality and drive-by commenting.
- Colin
Behind every great character there is a real person. I just hope that the more rational people currently participating in the mob realize this and understand what they're doing before they do anything worse.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Nick: well, yes. I wish we could have a team feed from Techcrunch.
- Robert Scoble
I still like Mike and don't think he should have deleted the TC account. I enjoy the TC posts but find that Mike and Erick tend to get to a point that makes me want to stop reading their stuff, and I won't for a few days.
- Jimminy Fuller
Just create a public standard feed/group (owner controls posts, anyone can comnent), and import TC from twitter/RSS/whatever.
- Ken Kennedy
Lise: Not wishing death, but I certainly would have given him shit and got up in his face if I had the chance. I don't fight (often) but I do relish giving hell to people.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Done: http://friendfeed.com/techcru...
- Jack
Jay, that's not true. I am a huge Leo fangirl but I also think for myself.
- Lise
The people who were commenting took it too far - Mike Appologised. Leo Appologised. That should have been it although Leo's fans just tried to continue to call mike for no reason.
- Nicholas James
Jack, subscribed.
- Robert Scoble
Lise, it wasn't a blanket statement. I've been a fan of Leo's since the old Tech TV days. Just saying that some will take it too far and it all it takes is the person to open that door a crack.
- Jay Caruso
Thanks, Jacky boy x
- David Lloyd
Thanks, Jack!
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Thanks Jack!
- Nicholas James
Robert, is there anything else that needs doing? I think I got it right
- Jack
Wait... is Jack affiliated with Techcrunch? Why not have MG do this? He offered.
- Ken Sheppardson
Nicholas: At this point I'd probably be calling Arrington to tell him to not take it too personally, that mobs are really just sheep with pointy teeth.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
FF is a focus group in many ways. Sad commentary IMHO.
- Eric Logan
Jack, Robert: MG can handle this. He writes for Techcrunch. How 'bout we not squat on their brand?
- Ken Sheppardson
Chris C, exactly. You just said, you relish giving people hell. You're always ready for a fight. I, on the other hand, am not. And I looked at this situation and considered both sides, despite being a huge Leo fan and not knowing many details on Mike (other than he pisses people off)
- Lise
Is there really much more discussion about this? What is done is done. It's already in the past & let's move on. No one knows how this will affect Leo in the future if at all.
- Jason Hansen
Want to know what else happened? A single moderator in Leo's IRC chat room muted the entire channel, causing the mob to spill into FriendFeed.
- Colin
When I first was diagnosed w/ cancer and the twitter community started the frozen pea fund to donate to cancer research, Mike and Robert were among the first to write about it. As I see it, they both keep a human touch to the community no matter how popular the following. I appreciate that and so maybe its easier for me to see past some of the things that upset the crowds.
- Susan Reynolds
I'm not affiliated in any way with TC
- Jack
are you okay now Susan ? xxx
- David Lloyd
Lise: anyone who does interesting things in media is going to piss someone off. Even me, I try to take reasonable positions and do my homework, but I have lots of haters out there too. It's unavoidable.
- Robert Scoble
Jason, I think there is. Considering Mike deleted his account and the GG site no longer exists on techcrunch. I feel bad for Mike and Steve.
- Lise
OK, if he asks
- Jack
Eric - true - ff as focus group
- Susan Reynolds
Why do you feel bad for Mike & Steve?
- Jason Hansen
Lise: Steve deleted the GG page, if I heard that correct. It will be interesting to see how the Gillmor Gang goes forward from here.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, no I get that. But that's my point. I know Mike is capable of that. And I'm way more of a Leo fangirl. Yet I wasn't with my fist in the air yelling "fight!"
- Lise
Mark - thanks for asking. Not OK but very supported by the best of the net
- Susan Reynolds
Basically the only 2 people who should have been involved was Mike and Leo. They both appologised - the mob tried to get involved and call Mike for no reason - I mean after both of them appologising to each other that should have been it - people took it too far with some of the comments I saw yesterday.
- Nicholas James
Because Steve realized his show isn't really his show. And Mike got hell when he didn't even give Leo that much shit to begin with.
- Lise
You know, my main issue with what happened yesterday, is that it was an ego clash. And just that. Funny that in the make-up part Leo kept insisting that he'd like more content on GG and less drama, an hour or two after he himself caused a helluva lot of drama. I do love Leo and watch all of his shows, but yesterday he was overreacting. And I think he figured that out in the mean time....
more...
- Vlad Bobleanta
ROBERT: oops caps, I do know Leo and Steve had a fight last night and its not gonna be on TWiT anymore x
- David Lloyd
If the mob is acting "in Leo's name", then I think Leo should try and tell them that they're certainly not acting with his permission or blessings. That they should disband and stop attacking Mike.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Steve still seems like he's trying to throw his weight around and try to be in complete control of the show. He needs to remember its not just about him - its about the audience - something he said he didn't care about yesterday
- Nicholas James
My impression is the guy went over tipping point for the kind of character he was putting out there, at some point people are going to say enough is enough.
- Ian Wright
Nicholas: the show used to be private, Im not sure Steve cares that much about the audience
- David Lloyd
Live by the sword...
- Ian Wright
Vlad, it was the final straw for Leo. He had said before that Mike was becoming too trollish during the GG show. And when he felt like Mike was about to attack his integrity, well, he blew up. Unfortunately.
- Lise
gillmor gang is going to be nothing more than a conference call :-(
- Tobias Lewsadder
Nicholas: Steve cares about the audience more than he lets on. He knows that by making things interesting he's doing right by the audience. That doesn't mean, though, that you kowtow to the audience.
- Robert Scoble
Tobias: heheh, in the real time world? THAT I would have to see!
- Robert Scoble
Isn't that your opinion Robert?
- Jason Hansen
I watched the whole thing unfold last night including the after show and it was clear that Mike Arrington spoke before he thought and didn't mean it to come out like people including Leo took it. I am glad that they both cooled down and realized it was a simple mis communication. Its too bad the crowd can't do the same. Mike Arrington may be a pain in the butt but pain in the butts are interesting.
- Kim Landwehr
Jason, sorry, lost context. This is all my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else other than me.
- Robert Scoble
Kim: bing!
- Robert Scoble
"Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does." Doesn't make his insinuations right. I work hard and couldn't do what he does probably - but that doesn't mean he can act like a jerk - repeatedly according to some.
- Mark Outten
I'm pretty sure the Techcrunch <-> Friendfeed comment sync was disabled a few days ago. Not sure it had anything to do with the dust-up yesterday.
- Ken Sheppardson
Lise: I know why it happened. I understand that was building inside Leo over time. I get that.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Robert, that really bugged me that Steve said he didn't care about the community. But I agree, he cares greatly about the show and the community. He wouldn't have been so hurt if he didn't.
- Lise
i was blown away by the second episode of gg. it almost seemed like arrington was torn by who he had turned into, at least the negativity that resides within hm.
- Tobias Lewsadder
It's probably just the mob he's upset with Lise.
- Colin
I also agree with Kim. I enjoyed watching GG at 6:00 PM during the last hour of shift at work. I would still watch it as well as TWiT.
- Jason Hansen
He was hurt by some of the comments, he also blamed Dave Winer for alot of problems
- David Lloyd
Mark: who said he's a jerk? Sometimes we're all jerks. And, anyway, when he's being a jerk he usually is keeping it on the story. Not personal. He's taken lots of shots at me but has NEVER said that I should get cancer and die. That's unacceptable.
- Robert Scoble
Vlad, okay and I agree with you that Mike should blow those comments off. I'm shocked he hasn't grown a thicken skin
- Lise
I think that if anyone bothered to read the Techcrunch appology and watch/listen to the 2nd Gillmor Gang yesterday they'd know the full story. The mob listened to the 1st Gillmor Gang only and drew their conclusions - some of that mob didn't even listen to Gillmor Gang - they just jumped on the bandwagon like sheep especially as they saw like a 1 minute clip on Youtube summarising it.
- Nicholas James
I don't know Arrington personally, all I can judge him from is his body of work with TechCrunch and it's top notch. Anyone who criticizes him in a vicious way needs to look in the mirror. A lot of those with the harsh words are probably typing it from their parents basement. I just hate when people rip other people with a pretext of being something else when it's really jealousy.
- Mike Bracco
Lise: it's always easy to say people should have a thick skin until you're the one at the center of a mob getting kicked in the groin. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Mike: bing!
- Robert Scoble
Steve Gillmor clearly stated that he doesn't care about the audience. And that's that for me, Robert. Lise: I can see Steve cares about the show, and especially his brand inside the show. About the audience, he said it better than I ever could. Please believe the man.
- Vlad Bobleanta
I think the Steve-Leo conflict (which was briefly obvious on the show) got totally overshadowed and subsumed by the Leo-Mike issue.
- Nick in Manila
Robert's comment exactly.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Robert, true. I know I couldn't handle it.
- Lise
Robert: You like Microsoft's new search engine. ;)
- Jason Hansen
Vlad: you aren't listening carefully. I heard what Steve said yesterday and totally understood what he was saying. You can't let the audience drive your product. Ask a Porsche owner what they want and they'll say "more trunk space, smoother ride, more leg room, etc." They just designed a Volvo.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: 100% agreed. I do not want to be in Mike's position, ever.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: all of us in media care DEEPLY about the audience. If you hung around any of these people you'd know that we read every comment and take them very seriously. But the day you start listening to the audience and kowtowing to them is the day when you lose your way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: How does the mob get its "justice" then? I have not seen the venomous postings you speak of, nor do I agree in any way that that is the way to go. So, how does this get resolved? I, like many, believe Leo was being "entrapped". How does Arrington get out of this with his reputation intact? He's done alot for all of us and definitely does not deserve the level of hatred you speak of, but something need to be done...
- Stuart Tracte
Stuart: most of the nastiest stuff has been deleted.
- Robert Scoble
Make a good product and the audience will find you.
- Kim Landwehr
Side note: Do not try to converse on FF on an iphone.... had a whole paragraph written out.... and lost it...
- Stuart Tracte
I think Arrington and Leo will come out of this fine, I'm already paying more attention to both of them.
- Colin
Stuart: you should go and listen to the second show we did last night. Leo wasn't entraped. And he didn't have to react that way. When people question my ethics I answer them calmly. I get questioned on that all the time.
- Robert Scoble
Every week someone asks me if I'm paid by friendfeed, for instance.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I am listening, and I get your point. I never got Steve's attitude, though. And I was just spinning what he said, I did get the underlying meaning.
- Vlad Bobleanta
(I'm not).
- Robert Scoble
Tonights FF homework: listen to the full GG show to become better informed http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
i was in the middle of typing a comment on tech crunch last night when mike shut down the comments, how sad. he mentioned having to have a police car parked in front of his house in the past for similar issues... that is wrong!!!
- Tobias Lewsadder
SCOBLE: totally agree! true innovation can't come from what the "flock" is saying they want. True innovators are so because they create something that no-one knew they needed until it is created.
- Mike Bracco
Honestly, I suspect that every person who got really pissed at @arrington over the years but had decided to ignore him went back and told him what they'd thought of him all along. He's ruined companies and products on the grandstand. I read his stuff like I watch fox news, for the truth far from the middle but for clues of what might be left out on the sunny side.
- Shava Nerad
Vlad: Gillmor is an interesting person. I don't always get him either.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, still. I am that community that Steve supposedly doesn't care about. And that's where I almost did pump my fist in the air. When Steve said he didn't care and Leo instantly said he *did* care. But... again, I feel bad for Steve, still. His issue was just loss of control over his baby (the show)
- Lise
Colin: Professionally, sure! This isn't any kind of permanent damage to either of them. Personally, though, I know that it's got to hurt them both.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Chris, I think they're both tougher now.
- Colin
Shava: He's made many hundreds of companies too. I don't know of a single one that was ruined by TechCrunch. Please back that statement up.
- Robert Scoble
Colin: You'd be surprised. Often the people who seem to have the thickest skin on the outside are the most sensitive on the inside.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Does Leo know any of this, btw? I think he thinks this is all over with...considering he was joking about it all. I think he's embarrassed and trying to make light of it. But I don't think it's over, unfortunately.
- Lise
Seriously everyone who did not listen to the 2nd show shouldn't even comment on it. Infact the problem should be over and done with it was a minor row which ended pretty quickly with both appologising to each other. That should be the end of it. Instead of people jumping on the bandwagon trying to call someone because he has a huge readership base and earns a nice amount of revenue from his blog
- Nicholas James
still watching.
- jeneane sessum
If they were ruined by TechCrunch then I'd have to call that company pretty lame. Remember PodTech? Mike pointed out a lack of leadership at the company. In hindsight Mike was right.
- Robert Scoble
Chris, but that outer skin just got thicker lol, I dunno, I just think it has to be a big lesson to both of them, they'll remember it.
- Colin
Lise: I don't know what Leo is seeing right now. I should call him and check in.
- Robert Scoble
I don't know about Mike, but Leo was already making fun of the incident on TWIT, realized their was a slight overreaction on his part
- Kim Landwehr
Colin: Yes, they'll remember it. But that outer skin is just their media personalities. You're ignoring the real people behind those names, and how they feel about it.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I don't even believe that Mike was about to question Leo's ethics. He was just upset that they didn't get a Pre. And wanted to make a point about how Palm selects reviewers. I never questioned Leo's integrity. Neither Mike's. I think they'd be really stupid to endanger their careers like that. Which settles it for me.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: Will you pass him the link to this discussion?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Wow...did not expect to learn this when I logged onto FriendFeed.
- Ben Parr
Vlad: you weren't hearing Mike. Please go listen to the second show. He made it very clear why he was asking those questions. Mike asks me all the time about my ethics. It's his way of digging for stories.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you should. I hope they can work this out. It's definitely not smoothed over. Maybe between Mike and Leo but not all 3.
- Lise
Bwana: But we need to know what every single person on FriendFeed thinks about the relationship between Leo, Mike, and Steve... did you miss the memo?
- Ken Sheppardson
I'll say this again, but Leo's IRC chat was muted, and chatters spilled right onto FriendFeed. If you were reading the IRC chat at the time, it was 100% pro-Leo. Those people normally don't come on FriendFeed, but when they were muted, this was the first place they came to, because this is the 2nd largest chat Leo endorses.
- Colin
Robert: That's his way of digging for stories... fine. However, is that something you would do to a respected friend?
- Jason Hansen
Mmmyeah, Steve's issue was loss of control over the show. I get that. I've seen how awkward it was at times. But still. How old are these people again?
- Vlad Bobleanta
Lise: that's true. Steve feels his show was stepped on needlessly.
- Robert Scoble
Jason: All's fair in love and war... And in media.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Jason: in this business? Yes. I ask MYSELF all the time am I on the right side of the ethical line. And when someone is getting a goodie and I'm not, it sure does make me wonder WHY.
- Robert Scoble
steve should host the show and he boot whomever he wants and not invite back guests he doesnt feel fit into gg.
- Tobias Lewsadder
Tobias: I agree. Steve should be in charge of the off switch on his own show.
- Robert Scoble
To run a show, you have to do what Leo does, you have to be able to control cameras and mics, and Steve really needs to get that kind of control, or Leo's operator needs to stay neutral, and out of it.
- Colin
Tobias: Steve should take things offline for making the show, and then broadcast it afterwards, rather than doing it live. That might help reduce the bad attitudes it seems to bring out from its hosts and guests.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I do think Steve had a point, It is his show and Leo really didn't have the right to shut the show down, no matter how mad he was
- Kim Landwehr
Robert: I would like to see the inner of the business for a week or two. It would be an interesting learning experience I'm sure.
- Jason Hansen
Tobias: I think it was unprofessional for Leo to pull the off switch on someone else's show while on air. It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me if I were to host a show on his network.
- Robert Scoble
out of interest. was leo, steve or arrington making money from GG? will this have business implications
- Anthony Feint
Robert: It would depend if you pissed him off ;)
- Nicholas James
Anthony: not yet, but whenever audiences get built around media properties there's always money involved eventually.
- Robert Scoble
No Anthony, this was a Saturday, and people's free time.
- Colin
Chris: Steve lives and breathes "live".
- Nick in Manila
Nicholas: if I pissed someone off they should bite their lip and fire me after the show. That's professionalism. It also gives people a chance to explain themselves. When you're on air it's very difficult to discuss business in a professional way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: How much time has Leo spent on the air over the past 10 years or so? How many incidents like this have their been? Seems like you might literally be blowing it out of proportion, re "It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me"
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert: I saw the show yesterday. Yeah, I know, my point was more that he was using the ethical question to start off his 'story' about Palm sending review units. Which is exactly what he said in part 2 of the show, when you were on too. And it's exactly what you kinda said. So let's agree to agree, even if my phrasing isn't phenomenal right now :)
- Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: I gotta agree with Ken's last statement.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I like Mike, I really do, and I respect him, but he has to take some responsibility. Its not what he says, its how he says it, that rubs people the wrong way
- Stephen Pickering
Ken: that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities.
- Robert Scoble
The interesting thing for me was that about a month ago, on another TWiT show, Leo expressed some negative sentiment about Arrington and the way he sort of "stir things up" to try to get responses out of people. It was on net@nite I believe. Anyway, that is the first thing I thought of when this happened yesterday.
- Mike Bracco
so I guess we are that petty? such a waste of our attention. Lets get back to reading / listening / sharing. Hopefully Mike will consider friendfeed again down the road and shake off all the negative publicity/bad feelings about inciting Leo.
- Mark Essel
but was leo giving free bandwidth to GG?
- Anthony Feint
Chris: I was one of Leo's "Laporteans" and have been a friend of Leo's before I even had a blog. I love the guy.
- Robert Scoble
Anthony: yes, but again, if you are going to fire someone in media, or shut down someone else's show, you should do that off air.
- Robert Scoble
Anthony: but maybe that's just me.
- Robert Scoble
I thought the comments towards Mike yesterday were overwhelmingly positive after they both apologized. I gained a new respect for Mike yesterday.
- Jesse Stay
Robert "that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities" That's why i made it a point to say Leo would be better off Not "Hosting" the GG but being a Out of Studio Guest
- Erle Stride
Mike B, exactly, he was ready to be attacked by Mike. He said it himself. So he went overboard.
- Lise
Scoble: Can't substantiate at the moment, so skip it as unsubstantiated, but I remember 2-3 times seeing what he said about something, and what others said, and thinking, he was just talking things down to be contrarian. It's like ValleyWag -- are you familiar with them? Thing is I rarely have read his stuff lately. I prefer constructive criticism over snark negativity, and that's the...
more...
- Shava Nerad
As an outsider viewing the beginning of the show, my impression was that Leo lashed out as if their is some pent up frustration/anger towards Arrington.
- Kevin Whalen
Anthony: I think Leo agrees there, too. He said he was wrong to shut down the show.
- Robert Scoble
I think Leo shouldn't have stopped the whole show, after all it is Steve's show. However I can understand why he did. It seems to me he was never quite happy with GG on Twit from the beginning. Which is what he kinda admitted in part2. If the show were to stay on Twit, I think they should just get someone in the cottage to switch between cameras and stuff, and Leo should be a guest. In Steve's show.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Shava: I've been on Valleywag more than 70 times.
- Robert Scoble
I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs.
- Jack
Vlad: I agree, and I think so does Leo and Steve.
- Robert Scoble
Kevin: Leo's talked about what he dislikes in Mike's persona before, but this is the first time things really came to a head.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
squarespace sounds interesting (still listening) - does put #squarespace in your tweet still enter you in the contest?
- jeneane sessum
Robert: yeah I agree to...im just wondering where the shows going to go. ITs going to lose a big audience. I only watched because it was on twit and techcrunch
- Anthony Feint
Probably not a good idea to be a guest and be in control of a show at the same time.
- Kim Landwehr
Leo DOES have the right to pull the show it's HIS network That's why Steve got so Pissy Lastnight
- Erle Stride
Really, he apologized, so shouldn't this be over if it's over between the two antagonists? But then this is the Internet. And yes, I figured you know Valleywag, but this is a general audience as well. A lot of folks don't overlap
- Shava Nerad
Robert, don't you think this is a bit of a soap opera?
- Jon Lebkowsky
Kevin: That exactly the way it appeared to this outsider.
- Nick in Manila
Vlad, I think we all agree that Leo shouldn't have shut the show down. But I think removing Leo from his own network in his own studio is silly. Do you really think he's going to do this again?
- Lise
Jon: of course!
- Robert Scoble
Mike sounded so reasonable last night. He told Leo and Steve not to make any rash decisions about the show, I'm surprised he didn't apply the same wisdom to himself and yanked the TC account so fast
- Stephen Pickering
Jon: of course this is all a soap opera. So is real life.
- Robert Scoble
Shava: The thing is, even if this weren't the internet, all our talking heads would still be talking about this. It's like with any kind of media personality, new old doesn't matter.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
If Arrington had gotten a free Pre to preview this never would havve happened
- Chris Patterson
Sigh. Okay. "Desperate Technorati."
- Jon Lebkowsky
jeneane: No, Calacanis just asked that the listeners of TWiT do that to support the sponsors of the show.
- Mike Bracco
Jeneane The contest starts on Monday. Details at squarespace.com/iphone
- Vlad Bobleanta
Stephen: lots of us can see the sins in other people but can't see our own sins quite so clearly. Myself included. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Chris, I see.
- Kevin Whalen
I'm not sure I agree that life has to be a soap opeat, but I have to agree that it often is.
- Jon Lebkowsky
Arrington was treated terribly - no doubt. is this new for him? no. has he treated others terribly? yes. will deleting the account keep people from treating him badly? no. will it stop him from treating others poorly? i doubt it. we all act like jerks sometimes. some of us have a bigger audience when it happens. some of us get a lot more crap when we do it. the folks who get extra crap...
more...
- MikeAmundsen
Your right, I've got to learn to practice that on myself
- Stephen Pickering
These guys could use some zazen.
- Jon Lebkowsky
lol, Jon!
- Shava Nerad
I guess I missed the terrible part on FriendFeed - TechCrunch or Digg or the TWiT chatroom, maybe, but it seemed to me FriendFeed was rooting for Mike by the end of that show.
- Jesse Stay
Lise: Lol. Dunno, we'll see.
- Vlad Bobleanta
i think this can be debated for days... perhaps finding a resolution should the direction here.
- Tobias Lewsadder
Sad. The Techcrunch items were some of my favorite part of Friendfeed. And I seem to remember an issue Mike wrote about some weeks back that impressed me with non-tech issues he feels strongly about. I hope he comes back with the Techcrunch account because whatever else, a few of us think he's part of here.
- George Hall (Australia)
Jesse: I think the stuff that got TechCrunch to delete friendfeed came last night.
- Robert Scoble
Less chatter, more photon splatter? What's the big deal, everbody's human and loses their cool at times. Some social media/stars/hosts are working very very long days and it's way to easy to fly off the handle when someone questions your rep.
- Mark Essel
Which is sad because that was the only way I read TechCrunch before. Hopefully MG continues to share his posts.
- Jesse Stay
MikeAmundsen: It only takes one dog to bite out your throat. Mike's lucky in this regard that it's a bunch of people screaming at him once or twice and then disappearing into the void, so much as this issue is concerned. When you have one person in a campaign against you for a long time, though, the damage is far worse than what this mob is doing to Mike.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Tobias: yeah, not sure there is a resolution. I hope everyone who listens to me and interacts on my behalf remembers that there's people involved here.
- Robert Scoble
Mike Admundsen - you nailed it
- Liza
I expect the friendfeed, if it was anything like this, was too fast and nasty to moderate, and when things die down he'll be back. I can see me doing that if things got fast and nasty
- Shava Nerad
If anyone wants a divergence from this serious talk, check out this CALACANIS AUDIBLE LOVE DANCE that I just recorded from today's TWiT - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Mike Bracco
Jesse: http://www.friendfeed.com/techcru... - someone remade it ;)
- Nicholas James
Mike kept saying that a bunch of FriendFeeders wanted to see him dead. I never saw those kind of comments. Were those kind of awful things said?
- Stephen Pickering
I suspect they'll get over it. I've certainly had some emotional moments that led me to delete accounts and worse.
- Jon Lebkowsky
Anyway, in a week we'll be back to talking about Apple's new iPhone. Bwana is right. Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
Bwana, tis true lol, I'm excited to see what Santa will bring.
- Colin
And got ove rit.
- Jon Lebkowsky
Robert By the sounds of it
- Erle Stride
One thing to remember, on the internet we are all still people. Attack egos, attack actions but leave the people alone
- Chris Patterson
Bwana: If only Palm had given more people Pre's the other day, we wouldn't be talking about this. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm with Leo - I don't think there will be a new iPhone
- Jesse Stay
Yes, I will get the new Iphone!!!!!!! Yeah, I've been living with a Razor for two years, but I'm not excited about AT&T
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: yeah, but they weren't people who I recognized. Anyway, time to move on. If I ever participate in a Mob again, just kick me in the knees, OK?
- Robert Scoble
Chris Patterson: AMEN.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
h Leo and Steve feel the GG and TWiT don't belong together I just wonder who will be the first to pull the trigger
- Erle Stride
well, you folks solve the problems of the world, I have to go feed folks dinner...:) Seeya later Jon! Nice to run across you.
- Shava Nerad
OK, I will! heheheh
- Stephen Pickering
Tking acct down does nothing to address issue - scoble, we'll kick you in knees if you mob - settles it!
- Liza
Shava: I gotta go play with Milan who just woke up. Seeya!
- Robert Scoble
Yay - saved by Milan, Scoble!
- Liza
Tad: :)
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
And yet, a Friendfeed without Arrington is lessened. He was as much a part of Friendfeed as Scoble. Heck, it just doesn't seem like Friendfeed UNLESS you've got both Arrington and Scoble talking.
- George Hall (Australia)
Deleting the FF account was an emotional reaction. I mean, think about it. Will that stop people over here talking about Mike or TC stuff? Of course not. So what's the point then? Just that Mike will never ever load FF again and therefore won't see some bad stuff being said about him? Sounds strange to me. I hope he changes his mind, because being less engaged with the audience is never good in my book. Trolls can be blocked. Bad stuff can be ignored. But to stifle what can be good conversations...why?
- Vlad Bobleanta
robert could it be as simple as... arrington was a jerk, laporte overreacted in attempts to defend his integrity. both were at fault in one way or another. it is the job of the host of the show to end this all. steve needs to step up and ask everyone to drop it.
- Tobias Lewsadder
Now you can't post comments to his last article on techcrunch, how cool is that?
- GeorgeAris
Vlad: when people get beat up they don't always make smart decisions.
- Robert Scoble
Hopefully Mike Arrington will come back to FF after a short time off, He will be missed
- Kim Landwehr
Did someone make the techcrunch account again to save it for him? heh
- Lise
Perhaps it's time we made an effort to make Mike feel welcome back here again.
- George Hall (Australia)
Would there be agreement that this was out of character for Leo and is there anyone following this that hasn't lost it in a professional situation? I sure he meant what he said, although I'm also sure he regrets it happened and feels like an ass.
- Jim Gablick
Tobias: Actually, if Steve can get the two of them in one room and shake hands and tell everyone together to lay off on the attacks, perhaps they might. It's a longshot but it could go a far way to making things better between them all, too.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Talking? I don't see Arrington as a talker...I see (saw) him as a sabre rattler and drama king. Unless there's controversy, he's not quiet. Finally, someone told him to shut the hell up for the tool behavior that's his M.O. Scob, if he couldn't stand the heat....
- C. Jason Mancebo
Karim: LOL>
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Robert: Agreed. I understand.
- Vlad Bobleanta
That drama button was hilarious Karim
- Benjamin Taylor
Jason: I don't think Mike minded Leo going off on him so much. It's the aftermath of having the mobs kick him in the nuts that got to him, me thinks.
- Robert Scoble
C. Jason: He's that too, but it is a talker. He does engage. And when he's not putting up that jerkface public persona, I'm pretty sure he's a nice, cool guy you can have drinks with.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
i cant believe that we are actually discussing this. shouldnt we feel disgusted that someone felt attacked enough to cancel his account. jerk or not he is human
- Tobias Lewsadder
agreed Scoble
- Kim Landwehr
never been a fan of mob mentality myself...
- George Hall (Australia)
Scob, I think it's cumulative. He's gotten away with ALOT of stirring the pot for a while and people just have had it. Be a contributor, or go away....but I certainly don't agree with the "death and cancer wishes"...that's completely unnecessary.
- C. Jason Mancebo
Chris: Mike is always interesting. I was at a tech industry brunch this morning with him and he's always got an interesting conversation going on.
- Robert Scoble
How does the saying go... "Live by the swarm, die by the swarm"?
- Ken Sheppardson
Jason: then we're on the same side. Arrington gets to me once in a while too. He knows how to push my buttons as well and get me all wound up. But that also is how he gets stories before anyone else does.
- Robert Scoble
Heck, Arrington's style created BUZZZ. So why treat him badly?
- George Hall (Australia)
It is almost like working for Microsoft. You get attacked daily.
- Chris Patterson
C. Jason: I'm a big jerk myself, on the outside, but that doesn't mean I'm not a sensitive and caring person on the inside. He's more than just his persona, he's an actual person too. Sometimes someone does have to come out and say "stop being such a dick" to me, and no doubt to him. But attacking en mass the way this mob [redacted] is doing, that's just not right.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Chris Patterson: LOL. Good one.
- Vlad Bobleanta
George: Arrington has done something remarkable. We always talk about him. He doesn't always like what we're saying, but I told him this morning that he has created a media company that is doing interesting things and that he should worry about the day when we're not all mobbing on him for some reason or another.
- Robert Scoble
I don't understand Arrington's defense. He's really nice, soft and fluffy on the inside even though he attacks you in public and calls out your integrity? He may have his own issues to deal with, but he's in the public eye and he should expect the wrath of the Internet to reign down when he pulls an asshat move like this one. How many times does he get to slip out of the antics he...
more...
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Maybe he read the Terms and Conditions here at FriendFeed and freaked out?
- Kenneth Stein
George: that said, it's not always fun and games being the center of all that kind of attention.
- Robert Scoble
+1 on Arrington getting stories before anyone else...when Friendfeed was down a few weeks ago, he was the only one who could provide info on why. Fastest news of that particular day.
- George Hall (Australia)
Robert: Don't I know it.
- George Hall (Australia)
Eric, does his actions, though, really warrant people to wish death upon him? (which is, apparently what he's upset about)
- Lise
Chris Charabaruk: Let's just please not call them Leo fans anymore. A mob is a mob. I'm a Leo fan and was not part of any mob, ever. And I don't want that association to stick in my head.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Chris, I'm sure he is, but too often, people need to hide behind their persona for whatever reason. His is the sabre rattler/pot stirrer...he went WAY too far insulting a pretty good guy's ethics. Not good, but certainly agree with the over zealous backlash..not good as well. I guess "you reap what you sew" is certainly valid
- C. Jason Mancebo
Vlad: I'm also a Leo fan and I totally see your point. I'll edit that bit out...
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Vlad, yes. I take offense to that whole Leo fans thing. I'm a huge Leo fan. I don't act that way.
- Lise
RobertS: this seems so reminiscent of the January fracas in Europe. Why is it that Arrington engenders such anger in people (and i'm not talking about Leo here)? this isn't some cosmic joke on good ol' boy MIke Arrington. there's a lot of history here. there's a lot of anger that Arrington has exhibited over a long period of time. don't get me wrong, i feel badly for the man. but not...
more...
- MikeAmundsen
let him go.
- Stalyn☂
Eric: integrity is something we should always ask of each other. I don't mind if you ask me those kinds of questions. I got a review unit of the Palm Pre too. You SHOULD be asking whether that biases my review in some way. Mike was mostly digging for a story yesterday, not attacking Leo. That's something you gotta know Arrington about. He was digging and got a reaction he wasn't expecting.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I heard that yesterday, and Leo just popped off. Mike really didn't deserve this one, which you can hear. What upsets me now is that I can see he does personalize a lot of this stuff, which was really done by Leo's audience, and Leo's chat room has an audience I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy. I loved it when we started the FF chat so I wouldn't have to listen to Leo's immature...
more...
- Francine Hardaway
it seems like people who have been angered by mike at one time or another are using this as an opportunity to lay into him.
- Tobias Lewsadder
C Jason: Exactly , it is one thing to attack a persons opinion, but attacking someone's ethics is really harsh
- Chris Patterson
Francine: well said.
- Robert Scoble
We had a good discussion yesterday at a tweetup in the city about the whole thing. I think MIke ABSOLUTELY deserved this one. It's been a long time coming. The whole backlash, not deserved, but not surprised.
- C. Jason Mancebo
WHAT!!!?
- Jason Pollock
C. Jason: if Mike was hiding behind his persona instead of showing the real self, he'd be blasting back at his detractors, not removing their comments and killing the old TC account here.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
NO ONE deserves to have personal attacks that deal with their life or family.
- Chris Patterson
I don't think these are even people who were angered by Mike, it was just mob rule. And there's no such thing as an online conversation that's "a long time coming" and bad enough to make someone want to get away from being online. That shouldn't be the way we act.
- Francine Hardaway
So Arrington and the other guy worked it out between themselves...so why should a mob stretch things any further?
- George Hall (Australia)
Lise, you are absolutely right, that isn't right; no threats are necessary. I didn't see that here however. Not from the regular FF crowd that have regular activity, so I really didn't see that personally.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Chris: Mike wasn't attacking someone else's ethics. Listen carefully to both shows yesterday. He was asking questions. Leo took it too personally, me thinks (he thinks so too, in hind sight). If your ethics are really above reproach you can answer calmly and professionally.
- Robert Scoble
Chris, I think he was hiding behind it in public and now is effected beyond the persona.
- C. Jason Mancebo
Francine: very well said.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Francine: agreed #2. Well said.
- Robert Scoble
Geroge Hall correct.
- Francine Hardaway
George: Mob mentality. 100 sheep on their own are perfectly fine, but if they freak out and charge in the same direction...
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Francine: mobs can get out of control here in the real time web. Not sure how we can fix that.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble, I gotta respectfully disagree with you. He was absolutely trying to make something out of nothing. Totally NOT ETHICAL!
- C. Jason Mancebo
Well, you don't want to be in their way.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
These things push my buttons because I see so much potential for good in the online community and I want the bad stuff to go away. I know that's unrealistic
- Francine Hardaway
Eric, I didn't notice those either but I wasn't the one attacked and wasn't looking for those. Despite that, Mike saw it/felt it. That's the point.
- Lise
Never liked mobs, never liked being on receiving end of them, never liked following any.
- George Hall (Australia)
Making a story is not creating a story. Not cool!
- C. Jason Mancebo
Jason: I can understand how you see it that way. DId you watch the second Gilmor Gang last night? Mike explained why he was asking those questions and Leo answered much more calmly.
- Robert Scoble
I vote we try to help Mike feel wanted here again.
- George Hall (Australia)
maybe leo should join us and ask people to lay off
- Tobias Lewsadder
Robert, I haven't heard the second show, but in the first one Leo clearly said that it was a review unit.
- Chris Patterson
I'm going to email mike.
- Francine Hardaway
Jason: personally the free stuff and review units and access DO bias our reporting and that's something that we SHOULD talk about calmly and professionally. Our audiences should hear our answers. I don't think Mike's question was one that shouldn't be asked. Of EVERYONE.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, did you get a hold of Leo about this yet?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Scoble, I think it was prettied up for public consumption by both of them. Sure, Leo could have been better about it. Absolutely. But I just am not with you on that one. Agree to disagree on this.
- C. Jason Mancebo
You should see the second show. You haven't seen that, you can't really get the gist of it. imho.
- Vlad Bobleanta
This is not about Arrington but about much larger issues and tensions that are brewing - amt of comments is undeniable proof of that.
- Liza
Robert Scoble, I understand your point. "If you only knew him..." I'm sure if I had a beer with the guy I'd grow to love him and all, but I haven't and all I have to go on is what I saw, and I can't side with M.A., not after his history with shooting first with his posts and comments. He really needs to put himself in the mind of the public that find a problem with his actions without...
more...
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Chris: and Mike, in the second show, explained why he was asking that. Techcrunch didn't get a review unit and his theory is that Palm is only giving review units to people who are saying nice things about Palm.
- Robert Scoble
On the early access units, how in the hell is anyone (Scoble, McCracken, Ubergizmo) supposed to review anything early without early access units. It's not a gift, it's a loaner.
- C. Jason Mancebo
Chris: I'm calling Leo now.
- Robert Scoble
I think Leo was right in getting mad
- Johnathan Schultz
Ask Leo to come in here
- Lise
Come on guys. If you haven't watched the second show, you're blowing in the wind.
- Nick in Manila
This talk of super-scary Friendfeed "mobs" is all a little hyperbolic.
- Christopher A Carr
Leo should not have said such inflammatory things.. Even if he was pissed off he could have handled himself in a professional manner on the air
- Jason Pollock
mike totally clarified himself and leo apologized for taking it the wrong way.
- Tobias Lewsadder
A promoter is not a journalist. Much of what I see on TC, and here and elsewhere illustrates that YOU are buzzing things, creating hype which in part drives it forward. The coverage ought to be balanced though, and it's going to likely lead to unfortunate and unnecessary consequences. This might shed a bit of light on it. http://bit.ly/LfVJk
- Kenneth Stein
Jason: I hate the review unit thing. Walt Mossberg got his weeks ago.
- Robert Scoble
I guess nobody takes Sunday evenings with their families these days, eh?
- Ken Sheppardson
Johnathan: Leo's anger was justified, yeah, but how he expressed it was a bit much. But how the way the mob took it as a call to action, that's bad.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I think it should be stressed that Leo can't be held responsible for anything anyone else says. On the irc chat, here wherever.
- Vlad Bobleanta
It is really too bad the conversation went bad. Mike really did have some good questions to ask about how business ethics and free products review or not. He just started the conversation really badly
- Kim Landwehr
leo's language on the air incited the hate comments that techcrunch got
- Jason Pollock
HI Liza, well, I see it yes and no....this specific thing is a good example of "you don't get to be a shit stirrer and get away with it forever".
- C. Jason Mancebo
Christopher: A mob is a mob, online or off.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Lise, getting threats like that is something no one should go through, I agree. People should act with civility.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Interesting post of Mike Arrington(The New York Times Sunday edition): The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Johni Fisher
On the AIR? Lol there's no FCC regulation yet....I'll refrain from scribing the 7 deadlies here
- Kenneth Stein
Looked to me like he was being a jerk and got called on it "what are you going to do about it?" is not the kind of retort that should pass between two adults. That being said, it also looks like Leo has decided to move on so should the rest of us.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Vlad: That's true, but he can still encourage them to act more responsibly.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
J Abdul, I think the "what are you going to do about it" was still when Mike thought it was all kind of a joke
- Lise
Scoble, it's not like they but a hundy in the package and say "review away" :-)
- C. Jason Mancebo
Offline mobs hurt more when they hit you with an actual physical object, as opposed to pissy comments variety of assault from dangerous Friendfeed "mobs."
- Christopher A Carr
Ken S, I just fired up the grill. Great day on the coast in HMB today. BBQ and wine happens soon :-)
- C. Jason Mancebo
we all benefit from the work that mike does. tech crunch has been a daily read for me for years... although you may disagree with some of his methods, is wishing him death really appropriate
- Tobias Lewsadder
C. Jason: They don't have to. Just having the thing before everyone else creates an incentive for acting non-ethically. After all, they give you a review unit (even one you need to return) because you gave them a good review might encourage you to keep giving good reviews for the opportunity to play with the latest gadgets first.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Chris: Yes, and I think he should. Let's just keep in mind, those are just random people who he probably never met. And in the case of the irc chat, are mostly anonymous. Which is part of the problem imo.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Tobias, i think we all agree that the backlash has gone to far...yes,
- C. Jason Mancebo
Actually, research idicates that being teased and taunted oftentimes is more painful than being hit.
- Kenneth Stein
Who were these random people anyway? Friendfeed regulars, or blow-ins?
- George Hall (Australia)
I agree, and i think this onslaught has gone on far enough
- Johnathan Schultz
George, I'm sure some were FF regulars. I don't think because you have a FF account it makes you of right mind. heh Unfortunately.
- Lise
Just a computer engineer, patent attorney, developing some tech
- Kenneth Stein
@George Hall: Gillmor Gang regulars.
- 321
"Onslaught?" Please.
- Christopher A Carr
People need to get a tiny bit of perspective instead of social media tunnel vision
- Nathan Cooprider
One thing I would really like to see come from this is that folks like Arrington with the "Not quite so stringent, shoot first retract later" ethics understand that people give a shit about that and it's not cool.
- C. Jason Mancebo
George Hall: mostly non-regulars, or that was my impression at least. But not exclusively. Arrington is easy to hate, that's the truth. And some people just need to hate something. Or someone. That is all.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Its just feels like this has gone a little to far
- Johnathan Schultz
Tobias, but I'm not sure that we wouldn't benefit MORE from TC if it was a bit less "NY POST" ish
- C. Jason Mancebo
The whole evening Gilmore Gang put everything into context. It was really interesting, lots of questions and talking points raised regarding technology reporting, journalistic integrity and consumed content. Even a discussion about the GG show itself. It's unfortunate that a few people ran with the 1 minute clip and formed an opinion without looking at the whole day in context.
- Benjamin Taylor
I want to make a quick statement, because this is how it seems to be framed here for some. Just because we are choosing to criticize him doesn't mean we are part of a mob or are threatening him. The debate should not be framed as Arrington versus bloodsucking Friendfeed mob. There is no defense for threats, online or off. No one is debating that that I have seen.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
@Johnathan Schultz: It has, but what are us bored geeks with too much time on their hands to do?
- 321
jason: agreed
- Tobias Lewsadder
Scoble, pretty great day on the coast for an Arrington discussion, no :-)
- C. Jason Mancebo
I do have to say that this whole incident is the reason I've came over to FF permanently.
- kenneth glenn
Benjamin: agreed. Eric: death threats is a mob in my book. Noone is referring to criticism, but rather to threats and mindless stuff.
- Vlad Bobleanta
If someone has actually threatened his safety, that's one thing, but I must say I found it almost funny that he was so upset over terrifying Friendfeed "mobs."
- Christopher A Carr
anyone know arrington for an extended period of time? has he always been like this?
- Tobias Lewsadder
Vlad, right, death threats are wrong, but that doesn't make me or anyone here criticizing this incident as part of the mob.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
I think that many people just took the opportunity to join in on the "I hate you Arrington" bandwagon when that started yesterday. Today they're all probably busy in Google Reader (even though RSS is apparently dead) reading the latest TechCrunch posts.
- 321
I seem to remember a techcrunch article Mike did weeks back about a different issue...one where he took a principled stand. I wonder if non-regular mob making threats relates more to that than the Gilmour gang thing.
- George Hall (Australia)
We're reaching again. Terrifying mobs? Where did that come from? He was getting abused, wasn't seeing any real poing to sharing stuff here, so he deleted the account. It makes his life easier. We're sorta going off the deep end... once again.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Christopher No one wants to read death threats about themselves. Real or otherwise.
- Glenn Trtanj
bwana: elaborate please
- Tobias Lewsadder
Bwana, absolutely agree...lots of folks obviously tire of it.
- C. Jason Mancebo
i know he has been like this for a while but im askking if this was the type of guy he was before getting into this business or has the business changed him
- Tobias Lewsadder
Ken: This is yet another overreaction, yes. This weekend is really something. However some people do take bad things very personally, and maybe Mike is one of them. Dunno, I haven't met him.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Personally, I think TechCrunch on FriendFeed is better as a room anyway. It enforces the separation between a person and their business. That said, I do hope that Mike comes back, and that everyone behaves civilly when he's around.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Excuse me, but if Arrington didn't say anything that stirred the pot, it'd be boring in here
- George Hall (Australia)
George: Damn right.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
And I would ask, on a different note, if someone called out you're ethics in the work that puts food on your table in front of everyone at your place of work, plus or minus 50,000 people, how would you react? With anger I bet.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
We need something like http://instantrimshot.com that automatically generates FF drama.
- Ken Sheppardson
@George Hall (Australia): Indeed, gives us something to talk about until tomorrow. People just seem to be over analysing all of this.
- 321
Chris, I don't agree with your logic on early access = incentive for ethical problems. Lot's of folks get early stuff. The only issue that I see is lots of FALSE POSITIVE reviews by lot's of up and comers...but not the Leo Laportes of the world.
- C. Jason Mancebo
And for those that want real drama, please refer to the french fry vs onion rings vs tater tots debate: http://ff.im/3H1oA
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
If anyone thought Friendfeed was JUST Robert Scoble, they missed half the point. It was equal amounts Scoble AND Arrington. The thrust and parry of the differing viewpoints sometimes.
- George Hall (Australia)
Eric: no. And Leo wouldn't have done it angrily if it wasn't for the feeling that he was being Mike's target. When you get questioned, you keep your cool and explain. Leo said exactly this tonight.
- Vlad Bobleanta
C. Jason: A false positive review IS an ethical violation, BY VIRTUE OF BEING FALSE.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
George, Arrington was really never on Friendfeed. He was not active here.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
His account was.
- George Hall (Australia)
posted some thoughts on this in the longer post here http://friendfeed.com/parisle...
- MG Siegler
and he was a part of Robert'
- George Hall (Australia)
s best posts.
- George Hall (Australia)
Vlad, that is the logical thing to do, but that would not be most people's gut reaction.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
MG: Well played.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
You can't be putting feelings before facts, I like facts.
- Colin
Arrington wasn't sitting around on FF all day, but he was here. There were several comments from him over the past few days.
- Ken Sheppardson
Colin: Sure you can put feelings before facts. If you couldn't, politicians would be out of work. ;)
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Scoble, have you seen MA's comments on TC? He's admitting to saying "We were promised one but it wasn’t delivered" but the comments are targeted at LL, not at Palm. That's completely shit stirring. Just not necessary.
- C. Jason Mancebo
@Lise not really something you say in jest... Those are or (at least were) what the old folks used to call "fighting words" and the only real reason to say them to someone is a) the two people in question are physically separated or b) the one person doesn't think the other is actually going to do any thing.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Bwana, I agree, we talk about this and I guess it's proof stirring the pot gets you your celebrity. Next stop, reality show.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
I agree with @Bwana but this happens everytime Mike thinks he's going to read something he doesn't like..just as right before he deleted TC's friendfeed account. We may not know him as a person but his actions have always preceeded him.
- John Blanton
from twhirl
Just talked with Leo. He hadn't realized this was all still cooking, but admits that people have said some really horrid things.
- Robert Scoble
J Abdul, I completely disagree. Of course you can say that in jest. You can even, as Mike assumed, throw F bombs at someone... in jest.
- Lise
Now that he does know, I hope that he'll come out and say something about it, see if he can put the whole matter to rest finally.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
When I called Leo he answered "are you calling me on your Pre?" Ahhh, the fun we have behind the scenes. ;-) (I wasn't, my Pre is charging).
- Robert Scoble
i think leo is focused on wwdc
- Tobias Lewsadder
Robert, you still haven't done anything with that Pre, my god! Aren't you curious to play with it? heh
- Lise
On twit earlier he was laughing and thought it had all blown over
- Jack
Lise: I took some pictures on it today and will do a writeup later.
- Robert Scoble
Jack: yeah. I told him these were aftershocks like what happens after a big earthquake.
- Robert Scoble
i saw that it syncs with itunes... does it sync calendar and address book thru itunes or thru isync?
- Tobias Lewsadder
Anyway, I gotta go, otherwise Maryam is gonna go off on me in public and that won't be fun either. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert - just don't walk off of her show!
- jeneane sessum
Cya Robert!
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Calacanis made a joke on Twit today when Leo began talking about the Pre, my senses stepped up and became more sensitive for a second there.
- Colin
Robert, see ya. Can't wait to hear about the Pre!
- Lise
later scoble
- Tobias Lewsadder
I was hoping he would set the record straight. It's hard to counter a 90 second youtube clip and the hour follow up with Arrington yesterday isn't widely availible.
- Jack
I suspect readers/viewers would have hated the vast majority of reporters from Benjamin Franklin on if they saw the man behind the news then, the way we often can now. Journalism isn't a gentile profession. If you don't want arrogance, then go get your news from a convent. Otherwise, expect and accept that these people are who they are and, for the most part, you get higher quality, more hard hitting news because of it. So appreciate that Arrington is an arrogant ass and leave him alone.
- Dawn
Robert here's the thing .. we're all huge fans of Leo and how can we not have something to say about this for good or for ill?
- John Blanton
from twhirl
Robert's original point was that Arrington copped a tremendous amount of mob attack including threats to Arrington. Sounds interesting for what was essentially a small and resolved issue between him and Leo. I have to wonder if the mob were actually Facebook hategroups pretending to be friendfeeders, since Mike did write an article on Techcrunch about the fact Facebook allows hate groups a say.
- George Hall (Australia)
Gee,that quietened everyone. Is the silence the sound of people thinking?
- George Hall (Australia)
So... how long until we get a Laporte/Christian Bale mashup?
- Jack
I was just thinking about the earthquake analogy...is it a force of nature, if it were not for this thread, would we be talking about this?
- Benjamin Taylor
I think most folks walked away after they realized that Robert actually did go AFK to spend time with his family.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Jack: LOL.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
If your a public figure such as an editor of a magazine, you need thicker skin this. This seems to be a reoccuring thing. People say bad things about him and he goes away. If he didn't want the negative comments or feedback maybe he should stop being such an asshole. He attracts this even when not saying crap about people. He gets what he deserves. Leo gets crap as well and i have not see him leave. He just moves on and tries to prove himself in his work. With respect on top of it all.
- CW™
In real terms, it's Arrington's job to create buzz and pot-stir. So is that a reason for him to get such a mob reaction and threats? No.
- George Hall (Australia)
And if there's one thing that won my respect for him it was that stand he took weeks ago on that Facebook issue.
- George Hall (Australia)
While Arrington might have expected a backlash from Facebook users, here was where he least expected it.
- George Hall (Australia)
Speaking of mob in a gentler way...does everyone HAVE to go quiet when Robert leaves the conversation?
- George Hall (Australia)
angrykeyboarder: why was FF never meant to be used like Robert uses it? He gets some interesting conversation going.
- George Hall (Australia)
Most people are probably here looking for Scoble's attention, and want him to respond to them personally.
- Jack
Robert also feels strongly about what happened to Mike, as for whatever else, they're friends. And he's allowed to defend his friend.
- George Hall (Australia)
angrykeyboarder: Discussion is EXACTLY how FriendFeed is supposed to be used. I don't see a blog post here. I see Robert starting a conversation, and contributing his two cents here and there.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
George, haha I went quiet when Robert left. I just assumed the whole thing would go quiet. Plus, you know Robert can keep a conversation going.
- Lise
+1 Chris.
- George Hall (Australia)
I wonder if Robert hopes we'll keep a thread going without him once in a while.
- George Hall (Australia)
George: LOL, probably.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
George: yes. :-)
- Robert Scoble
LOL
- Lise
If anyone hasn't heard part 2 of the Gillmor Gang it's here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
Angrykeyboarder: this IS my blog on the topic. :-)
- Robert Scoble
+1 Robert.
- George Hall (Australia)
People who know Mike: Do you think he'll cool down and come back to FriendFeed?
- Bruce Lewis
What a wknd ..sooo strong feelings
- Johni Fisher
I hope Mike DOES come back. I miss his feeds already.
- George Hall (Australia)
I stopped reading TechCrunch some time last year, but started following it on FriendFeed after Mike's month in Hawaii. My impression is that depth/quality has gone up. Not that I did a scientific study or anything.
- Bruce Lewis
Woah, I thought I was going to have to ask the question, but it seems the impression I got is coming out in the end. I felt certain that Leo had learned from the past to recognize the Arrington pattern, and that he saw some familiar threads and immediately kicked the loom out of the weaver's hands. In my reading of past things that don't even involve Leo, Arrington's been a subject of...
more...
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Intellectual or professional disagreement doesn't have to mean personal disagreement. While I'd disagree on some of Mike's points, I have nothing against the man personally. And there's still a fair amount of stuff he's written I DO agree with. The Facebook hate group article for one. That shows Mike has principles.
- George Hall (Australia)
Thanks for that audio link, Jack... and Robert, I haven't blogged much lately either, but I did in this case... without hearing part2 first!
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
People disappoint. I am no fan of Mike Arrington's, but I wish him no ill either. To have even one person wish him cancer or otherwise is just awful. With that said, I no longer buy the "he's a sensitive guy" routine. He's either a tough guy or he's a victim, and the victim seems to emerge when he's wrong. He has the power. He has the attention. He wields it. By his own admission, his...
more...
- Karoli
I wish him a little bit of ill will. Just minor ill will. Like maybe the apples he selects to be slightly less sweet than he was hoping for, or his timing chain to hop one tooth and make his car ride just a bit rough, or his shoe lace to break when he's tying them.
- Matthew DeVries
lol @Matthew
- Louis Simoneau
Fortunately, wishing cancer on someone is not going to make it happen. I could stand right next to Arrington, shut my eyes really tight and mentally chant "get cancer" for hours, and the only result would be indesputable proof of my utter stupidity. I'd have to laugh at the goofball who expressed such a sentiment. I would expend actual thought processes on the ones who wished for bodily harm, because those folks might bump into Arrington at a floor show or before or after a session at a conference.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
found this link at the same time I was listening to this: http://bit.ly/2nhNLw via @arrington and Leo afterword. Didn't see the link, apologies if it's already been posted.
- motownmutt
I'm not sure why people hate Mike so personally, it's ok to disagree with him but Mike and TechCrunch seams to have a lot of hate aimed at them for no apparent reason.
- DarknessFalls
motownmutt: thats a direct link to the second part of the show. It's from the "bootleg" feed (read:only feed) which includes the first part of the show, as well as last weeks show, and older shows: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
Actually, it's already resolved between Leo and Mike anyway. And that's really where it should have stayed anyway. Resolved between those concerned. Doesn't need mob commentary afterwards, doesn't need threats to Mike, doesn't need the bullsh**.
- George Hall (Australia)
I've been hiding all of these entries about Mike and Leo. I decided to read yours Robert because I know you. Here are some of my thoughts. First, I don't know either Mike or Leo and have never been influenced by either one of them. Second, I love listening to Leo's shows but cannot stand TechCrunch and the attitudes on that site. Third, Mike was the first (and only) person I...
more...
- LPH™ and his dog P™
@DarknessFalls, I think it was said that some people hold Arrington responsible for the failures of their ventures. He gives his opinion, & people listen (I think). If someone's project didn't make sense to Arrrington, and he said as much, it could hurt. Could the people in this flap be a different group? I hope so. @LPH: Interesting take you have there. You're saying the very post that I thought allowed Arrington and Leo to patch things up actually caused his problem with those who weren't involved?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
LPH: Actually, Mike contributed in other ways. With the things he'd say to Robert, he'd get some real discussion moving anyway. And I liked his feed. Some of the best things I "liked" were Arrington's feed items. Mike didn't contribute? You mustn't have been paying attention. I'm sure Robert can tell you how Mike contributed in quieter, less noticeable ways to the discussions and other things.
- George Hall (Australia)
I don't think channeling through Scoble is actually contributing...maybe that's just me.
- Bwana ☠
BoringMage: Some people holding it against Arrington for pointing out major flaws in their products meant their products were flawed. People like Arrington voicing concerns can help them improve or come out with better. Sometimes a harsh critic can be your best friend. If what he says helps you come out with better. In which case, I think Mike was still in the right to voice concerns.
- George Hall (Australia)
Palm, at the moment, really needs to have the Pre being a hit. But there's some design flaws in the hardware they're going to need to correct fast. That's a valid point. Otherwise I can see them being sued for having edges on the phone so sharp people can injure themselves.
- George Hall (Australia)
I would like to know, in 100% honesty, how many people heard part 2 before commenting, including the apology? I admit - I did not hear it until a few minutes ago. Anyone want to chime in?
- Liza
Bwana: sometimes, the greatest contributor is the one who sets things up for someone to kick a goal.
- George Hall (Australia)
And, when Scoble's back in this discussion, I'm sure he'll tell people how much Arrington DID contribute in a quiet way.
- George Hall (Australia)
@GeorgeH: I think what you said is exactly what the person who said Arrington was blamed for others' lack of success was trying to convey. Since I haven't done anything worthy of Arrington's notice, I wouldn't be trying to lay any blame at his feet, nor would I criticize him for pointing out problems, at least not if he let the organization know and gave the organizers a chance to address those concerns. @Liza: I listened to both and read the TC post yesterday.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Not sure what the big deal is on the TC FF account really is. Seemed like nothing but the TC RSS feed being piped into FF for likes and comments.
- Rolf Schewe
Two ways to look at how a tech blog criticizing your product affects you. On a non-personal way, they show you you have a flaw. Whether privately telling you or publicly telling you, they're making you aware of it. If you take it personally, you don't improve your product, you just lash out at the messenger.
- George Hall (Australia)
People from all types of disciplines follow the Tech Industry. Tech Industry Reviewers become brands that often influence our decisions as trending consumers to become early adopters of new products and services. The most popular brands will always receive benefits from the companies such as freebies, pre-release models, and exclusive (or first opportunity) interviews. The public...
more...
- thestaticfrost
Thanks for answering my question @boringmage - I was not sure what to think but wanted to see others' rationale, so I followed the stream. I had seen so much noise about it but not the audio part 2. This reshapes the reasoning.
- Liza
George: he sure participated more here than Kara Swisher or Walt Mossberg. At some level, though, friendfeed is an aggregator and people deserve participation credit just for putting their feed in here.
- Robert Scoble
At the moment I don't get paid for doing a tech review on my own blog. I simply look at the fact it does help if I've used or played with the thing I review. For the most part, I'll point out its good features. But where it has areas to improve, I'll also point those out, too. But someone feels they're going to complain because I point out one or two areas need something a tad better????
- George Hall (Australia)
Thanks for validating how much Mike did contribute, Robert.
- George Hall (Australia)
The other part of this whole thing that bothers me is how Steve has been characterized as this guy who doesn't care about his listeners. If he didn't care about his listeners, he'd produce a show just like every other show out there. Instead he chooses to focus on what he views as important for his listeners to hear. He's been right far more often than he's been wrong, by the way.
- Karoli
Geez, wonder if mainstream media ever gets this much discussion these days as much as this one show did.
- George Hall (Australia)
If comments in here were ratings, the Gilmore Gang would be a number one show.
- George Hall (Australia)
Perhaps it's time to get Gilmore Gang on a mainstream media channel...
- George Hall (Australia)
George: Mainstream Media talks this way about themselves so they can justify their existence.
- Owen Greaves
Why can't we have a rating system? I think we need a web rating system that encompasses comments too....
- Sid Burgess
Liza, I heard most of the post drama drama today on live.twit.tv on a repeat. Gilmore certainly was upset as well. Seemed to take the whole thing pretty personally as well. Not sure how that has turned out.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Sid: I would love an Internet-wide identity system. But that is really hard to do and get everyone to participate in.
- Robert Scoble
Wait. Why is this interesting?
- l0ckergn0me
Well, that crack that whip Scoble! :D Actually, I think it would have some self-momentum... people want ratings, advertisers want value... hmmm?
- Sid Burgess
He deleted the account because he can't control the conversation.
- Jim Posner
Man Google Wave would be so handy right now in a thread like this!
- Sid Burgess
Oh no; then you'd see my spelling mistakes in realtime
- Jack
;) @jack
- Sid Burgess
@l0ckergn0me: I'm hoping to learn something so I can be half as big as you one day and not make the same mistakes that others make so publicly for me. So if I have something wrong, by all means correct me! [edit: I know you like helping people; help me! ;) ]
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
As an pretty unbiased 3rd party, I am wondering why so few responded to listening to part 2 on audio. I know I am not 'relevant' to the crew, but it is a fair question. - AND re: why is it interesting - EXACTLY, it is not interesting except that so many are interested, so as a curious person, I want to understand it.
- Liza
Gee, imagine doing any reviews or critiques of any product if you felt constrained for pointing out it had a flaw or if you saw products to review given ONLY to those writing JUST good things.
- George Hall (Australia)
Liza: the problem is the youtube video is 90 seconds long and the part 2 is over 1 hour
- Jack
people dont have the patience to sit through that. Compare 112 thousand views, to 2 thousand clicks (so far) on the bit.ly link: http://bit.ly/info/2nhNLw
- Jack
Jack - fair enough, but this is a 4 HOUR STREAM -and for some really strong opinions, if I were an "influencer", I sure would not say something w/o doing my research
- Liza
That's exactly the problem here. Both you and I wouldn't give our opinions without the full picture. But the so called "influencers" just mouth off without doing the proper research, like the "problem" with blogging where unsubstantiated claims and heresay is published.
- Jack
Is that like what M.A. does frequently?
- C. Jason Mancebo
Actually, I think Arrington does do his research.
- George Hall (Australia)
Michael does fact-check or tells people it is unconfirmed in the post, generally.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
That wasn't directed at Mike at all, he's an excellent blogger
- Jack
+1 Jack. Mike does excellent blogs
- George Hall (Australia)
George, I have to disagree. He's much more of a shoot from the hip and retract later if I get called on it type of guy. Tthe truth or the facts are good, but only if it's interesting and gets him some buzz.
- C. Jason Mancebo
Perhaps it's more like being accused of rape then vindicated, people wil only remember the more sensational story.
- Jack
Not directed at Michael or anyone in particular. I asked a simple question, who listened to part 2 audio and few answered. Not directed at anyone.
- Liza
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was interesting to hear Leo realize what the Gillmor Gang is really about in this second part: I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. Thoughts?
- Jack
Liza, I think it might be a little late to expect a flood of comments. This is natural around here.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Who says geeks and nerds are dull?
- George Hall (Australia)
Those who are not geeks/nerds :)
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
@Jack: At first I couldn't figure out where you got that impression, but now I wonder if you're talking about the part where Leo was (if I recall correctly) saying to Steve that he got the impression that what was happening in the show wasn't what Steve wanted happening in the show, and when he was asking him what he wanted to do about it (with someone saying it doesn't have to be discussed right there in public). Is that what you're referring to?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
If I had already been physically assaulted (spit on), had my family threatened, and then had a mob of people come after me online - deleting an account on a social network probably would be a quick decision.
- Matthew McCowan
I mean that Leo was expressing his concern over the high amounts of drama on the show, which he disliked and thinks can be advoided, to which Steve and Robert explained was inevitable and part of the show.
- Jack
I need to go listen more, methinks. Just not tonight. Gotta be at work in 8 hours. I can seriously understand not expecting drama, though.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
I predict GG moves over to Mahalo.
- Jim Posner
Oh, wait, I forgot that screaming, mean vlogger guy is on that show; of COURSE there will be drama!
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Jim: that actually seems like a good fit for the show. i personally think steve should find a way to host it so he can have full control.
- Tobias Lewsadder
Could also be an interesting get for B43.
- Jim Posner
Reminds me how silky things can get over objects/tech. In Australia you can get fist fights over Ford and Holden (GM)
- George Hall (Australia)
from BuddyFeed
The show has been very different since it came to Twit. Much more tamed down. This week was almost a return to form, except that Leo ended the show. One of my favourite pre twit shows was when all the other hosts were laying into Scoble for wasting a year of his life on Friendfeed. He was right in the end of course, but the confict that sparks heated debates is why I started listening to the show.
- Jack
Guess it's never boring, then.
- George Hall (Australia)
It's a shame he felt he needed to. It's a bad decision which is an unfortunate one.
- James Stratford
Robert I got to agree w/you on Techcruch. Did u read about: TechCrunch's Notes | The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism http://ff.im/3HS0e
- polou/indigo_bow
Ryo: A few months down the track you'll probably be playing with a crunchpad. And you'll be thinking it a nice piece of tech...but are you going to throw it away when you realize Arrington's associated with it? There are trolls and there are trolls. I don't think Arrington was a troll. Pot-stirrer yes. Troll no.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo: I totally disagree with you. Techcrunch has helped many many companies launch and provides a valuable service in getting lots of people to pay attention to the tech industry. Arrington is far far from a troll. Is he a jerk sometimes? Yes. But just being hard to live with does NOT make one a troll and neither does bringing up a good argument once in a while. But to try to claim that that's all Techcrunch does is simply false and I won't let it stand in the comment thread that I started.
- Robert Scoble
Makes me wonder if Ryo knows who defaced Arrington's wikipedia page...
- George Hall (Australia)
the ip addresses are there in the history George
- Chris Heath
Hope Wikipedia rectifies it.
- George Hall (Australia)
Arrington really opened up a lot in that conversation with Leo. I think his explanations there really explained a lot on why he has to wear a thick skin and act the way others perceive at times. The way he manned up and apologized to Leo I think was very impressive. I will forever see him in different eyes now - I really respect Arrington since yesterday.
- Jesse Stay
And Robert, have you consoled Tina yet? she seemed pretty down in here recent tweet: http://friendfeed.com/tinagil...
- Chris Heath
Jesse, me too
- Chris Heath
There's a few of us who have a lot of respect for Arrington and his principles.
- George Hall (Australia)
George, a few million you mean, right?
- Chris Heath
Robert: If Mike Arrington feels THAT strong about 'the mob' - why didn't he delete his Twitter feed too? Could it be the hundreds of thousands of followers he has been 'gifted' because of his 'special relationship' with the Twitter guys?
- Jim Connolly
That too, Chris. You probably have a better idea than me of exact numbers.
- George Hall (Australia)
It's sad too that all this fuss over a mere misunderstanding in a show gets so out of hand, because it affects the families, too. Sad because it's sorted out between Mike and Leo, but a whole bunch of people outside of it take things too far. Seriously, nobody had any right to make threats to Mike.
- George Hall (Australia)
I just hope everyone can forgive and can move on with good stories and news.
- Darren Lowery
Ryo: That's you. Me, I'm itching to own a crunchpad.
- George Hall (Australia)
The Tech News Blog (when do we get to know your real name?) I'm sure he looked at the results he was getting, and I'm 100% sure he was seeing night and day results better on Twitter than FriendFeed. I'm sure he weighed his losses, and FriendFeed wasn't worth the negative brand image when compared to the traffic he was getting. Mike's a business man - I highly doubt it was anything personal.
- Jesse Stay
I really cannot understand all this vehemence against Arrington. Neither can Robert, either, nor a fair few Friendfeed regulars. And Ryo, I really do not understand where your vehemence towards him comes from.
- George Hall (Australia)
Jesse: My name only changed here a few days ago, it's Jim Connolly - full contact details here http://jimsmarketingblog.com/contact... FriendFeed has not given Arrington a negative brand image - he did.
- Jim Connolly
Ryo, to understand him I think you really have to put yourself in his shoes. He's had a whole lot of people be jerks to him. I'm sure that would get to you.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: So, if he's so worried about what the mob are saying about his brand, why isn't he worried about his brand on Twitter?
- Jim Connolly
Guess you didn't read the right articles, Ryo.
- George Hall (Australia)
Jim, I'm sure he couldn't afford to lose Twitter - that's my guess. FriendFeed I doubt was doing much for him, at least in his eyes.
- Jesse Stay
Ryo, would I be an asshole for having something against hate groups? And if I did, would you still be saying it's my fault for *insert whichever reason*?
- George Hall (Australia)
Jesse: I have no problem with him leaving FriendFeed, I just call bullshit on him suggesting it was the mob that drove him out. If it was the mob, he would have left Twitter, where they are REALLY attacking the guy. For the record, as a Tech News blogger myself, I have a lot of respect for what he has achieved.
- Jim Connolly
Many people on the Interwebs are idiots--just look at nearly any YouTube comment! I'm not sure I buy that Arrington is that sensitive about how people have reacted--he's an Internet professional and he more than anyone should understand these outrageous, hate-filled comments are just a bunch of blowhard a-holes. That being said, Arrington had an opportunity to stop Leo and clear the...
more...
- Paul Salzman
Paul: I know Mike and talked with him at length this morning, both on phone and face to face. He's actually pretty sensitive, but puts on a tough face. It's an interesting part of his personality to see.
- Robert Scoble
Ryo: do you buy Apple products? Jobs is a bigger jerk than I've seen Arrington ever be. Ryo: name one newcomer Arrington destroyed. Just one. I'd love to hear his/her story.
- Robert Scoble
The Tech News Blog: good point about Twitter. I think Arrington likes that he has half a million followers there while me and Leo have been kicking his ass here on friendfeed (I was kicking his ass on Twitter too, before Twitter added him to the recommended follower list, which zoomed him above me and Leo).
- Robert Scoble
TechCrunch leaving Friendfeed is sad, because even when we disagree with each other, it is nice to have a discussion going.
- Mike Chelen
Robert: I know about you and Leo kicking is butt on Twitter before the recommended list started. (I have been chatting with you on Twitter for well over a year now!)
- Jim Connolly
Robert: Re Twitter followers, seen this from earlier: http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009...
- Jim Connolly
On Twitter Mike's personal account http://twitter.com/arrington has a mere 5 thousand followers, it is the TC account with 680 thousand, whilst on FF he had his personal twitter as well as TC feeding in. See the google cache here: http://209.85.229.132/search...
- Jack
The Tech News Blog: engagement levels on Twitter are interesting, agreed. I've seen the bot behavior too. Twitter's team seems unconcerned. Ryo: it's bullshit to say you were destroyed by TechCrunch. If anything getting Arrington to say negative things about you focuses the world's attention on you and people (especially his competitors) rush to check out whether or not he's correct. If he wasn't right, that guy would have gained even more followers.
- Robert Scoble
Jack: the TC account used to be Mike's personal Twitter account before that account got added to the recommended follower list. Now he's used that just to stream TC links. He used to have conversations with lots of us on Twitter in the old days using that account.
- Robert Scoble
It's ironic, though, that getting half a million people to follow you means you can't even get 10,000 people to follow your other account. The engagement isn't there. Getting engagement is much more difficult than most people understand.
- Robert Scoble
Ryo, have you ever considered that the example you've just quoted probably didn't have a great product to begin with, or may have had stuff that really needed more work? If the product's good, no blogger with influence would really affect things. But if he points out a potential product needs major work or is complete crap, go get the product right and stop blaming messengers like Arrington.
- George Hall (Australia)
George: exactly right. I totally bashed Amazon's first Kindle. it still sold very well because it did have real value (it just was designed poorly). The Amazon team was never as nice to me after that, but I know people who bought it after watching my review and deciding I was wrong about the device, so in the end, I'm pretty sure I helped them out more than I hurt them. A great product withstands all criticism.
- Robert Scoble
Exactly, Robert.
- George Hall (Australia)
I'm going to have to take issue with you there Robert. Respected reviewers CAN affect the success of a product. That's why we must demand that they review ethically and thoughtfully.
- invariant - farewell FF
Ryo, sounds like you didn't hear the aftermath gillmor gang session on saturday http://ia311238.us.archive.org/3...
- Chris Heath
Don't forget about the first part: http://www.archive.org/downloa... Mike spoke very kindly about Rajeev Motwani before the shouting began.
- Jack
Friendfeed is better than Twitter, yet he wants to stay with Twitter, COZ its driving traffic to his blog and nothing else
- Michael_techie
invariant: we can have some impact, yes, but if only one person is picking on something and is picking on something wrongly it can often have the opposite effect. A good product WILL stand up to Mike Arrington or anyone else for that matter.
- Robert Scoble
well what he said after in the second session was serious too - and he claims the pre stuff was in jest and misunderstood
- Chris Heath
Chris: he didn't quite say "in jest" but that he was trying to point out that Palm sends review units to those who have given Palm a good set of PR over the last few months. He might actually have a point there but that point was lost both because Arrington started pushing Leo's buttons and because Leo responded to that with an outburst that I haven't seen Leo do ever (and I've been following Leo since the mid 1990s).
- Robert Scoble
right robert... but the 'what are you gonna do about it?' he claims was in jest
- Chris Heath
Chris: yeah. That's just Mike being Mike. He does the same thing with me to try to push my buttons. Sometimes he succeeds with me too. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
and robert... one question about the PR stuff... isn't it fully in Palm's rights and best interests to give out review units as they see fit? isn't that the point of PR? to get the review units out to those you think will give the best reviews?
- Chris Heath
Robert, I don't know about that. Something from a company like Amazon, sure. They have the muscle to keep it going. But something from a startup running on a shoestring? A bad review from the right person could kill it. Look at what Engadget/Gizmodo (I can't remember which) did to the Folio - a product that was a netbook a year or so before the Eee PC.
- invariant - farewell FF
Chris: yes. And that's why the practice is a little dirty.
- Robert Scoble
but isn't that to be expected as core part of what PR is?
- Chris Heath
invariant: any company that has all of its hopes hinged on one review is a company that's setup to fail. When I bring out a product I'll assume I'm going to get bad reviews. In fact, that's what I'm expecting with building43. If someone bashes it it won't stop me. I'll learn from it and move on and make it better.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, but the Folio wasn't quite the EEEPC...it was just an oversized Palm Pilot. Not even with an adequate OS for the size of the thing.
- George Hall (Australia)
kind of like the old saying don't hate the player, hate the game?
- Chris Heath
Chris: I have come to hate a lot of what PR does. The good ones are very helpful and fair to all comers.
- Robert Scoble
But the bad ones...
- Robert Scoble
right robert, and if what you're selling is truly good then the product/service doesn't need PR then right?
- Chris Heath
George: regarding the Folio: exactly. Bad products can't overcome bad reviews.
- Robert Scoble
I still think if a review kills anything, the product wasn't right to begin with. And I know that from my cartooning experience over twenty years ago. Critics are harshest when something's clearly crap. You just can't afford to be precious about a creation that's crap. You take the criticism the proper way and go do a better product.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why.
- George Hall (Australia)
Chris: if something really is great PR should only need to facilitate the press seeing it, finding that out, and holding it. I loved the Palm Pre as soon as I saw it on screen and nothing has changed my mind about that since. No PR person needed to give me one. Although the fact that they did made it easier to form an even deeper opinion that it's great.
- Robert Scoble
Yikes!
- Fred Davis
George: remember, I've been at the harsh end of Arrington's stick. You should go read what he said about PodTech. What he said stung and hurt but it was right and the company wasn't going in a good direction. Arrington just helped everyone's attention focus on that. Could we have pulled it out without that attention? Maybe, but I doubt it in hind site.
- Robert Scoble
Palm still need to do something about the sharp edges, though
- George Hall (Australia)
night everyone... cy'all later
- Chris Heath
Are you saying it's impossible for a great product to fail due to negative publicity? Color me incredulous.
- invariant - farewell FF
George: I'm playing with a Pre right now and I don't think the edges are overly sharp. If they did something about them it would pronounce the gaps where the phone slides together.
- Robert Scoble
invariant: name a great product that failed due to negative publicity and let's talk.
- Robert Scoble
Sometimes even if an idea is ours, it might need work...or it might be crap. Sometimes it's good someone points that out to us. I don't mind a good critic. They're great for getting your idea more focused and improved.
- George Hall (Australia)
Robert: was watching a review that showed the edges when opened are sharp enough to cut cheese.
- George Hall (Australia)
George: must be really soft cheese. Geesh.
- Robert Scoble
Lol
- George Hall (Australia)
I mean, can't we all just get along? But then again, I do remember learning as a journalist that controversy sells... even if it does come at a price...
- Fred Davis
Exactly, Fred. Heck, a bit of negative publicity actually sells more things...
- George Hall (Australia)
George: even there, though, if I read that review that the Palm Pre had sharp edges, all it would make me do is go and hold one and see if they bugged me. If they did, I'd get an iPhone or a Blackberry. If not, well, sold! If that's the worst thing they can say about the Palm Pre, it's actually doing pretty damn well! On the other hand, now I'm going down to the kitchen to see if mine will cut cheese. Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
LOL. Palm Pre as cheese knife...now there's a hitherto-unknown use for it.
- George Hall (Australia)
Heck,most of us here WANT to see the Palm Pre do well...and Palm themselves. But we'd all like to hope they do listen when some of us do point out where it needs a fine-tune.
- George Hall (Australia)
Palm Brie?
- Mel Buckpitt
Hmmm....Ryo...you can put NO to most of your questions. I just dislike when someone makes a personal attack on a guy for doing his job. Or when he's blamed for some person's misperception of how much influence he has over whether a product sells or not.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo: interesting that you use the same tactics that Arrington used with Leo. That's sorta weird.
- Robert Scoble
I still maintain that the Folio was one of those products. It was a netbook before we even knew what to call them, and it was killed before it was even released by a web site that couldn't imagine the utility of a small, low cost portable. It may have had flaws, but so did the first Eee PC. Who knows what it could have become?
- invariant - farewell FF
Yeah, Robert, but we at least knew where Arrington was coming from.
- George Hall (Australia)
invariant: the eeepc had a linux/unix operating system with a fair amount of useability. The Folio was, to all intents and purposes, just a larger Palm. Huge difference. And at the time it was brought out, Palm OS was a bit limited.
- George Hall (Australia)
invariant: well, maybe they shouldn't have shown it to Engadget first. There's lots of others who would have been able to push it along. But some products are simply before their times. Folio didn't excite me and I saw it. I agree with George. Failed OS. Heck, even Palm has given up on that OS.
- Robert Scoble
That's not true George. It was based on a linux os just like the Eee.
- invariant - farewell FF
Ryo, your comments on Arrington have been accusing him of being a troll. To me, that's treating Arrington a little too personal.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo: I read all comments and seems to me you're doing the same thing as Arrington.
- Robert Scoble
I agree that spiteful comments are not the best way, but at the same time, Mike Arrington really shouldn't have jumped on such a bandwagon. At any rate, I hope that things douse soon!!
- Guru Panguji
Actually, Ryo, your comments about Arrington sound very hateful.
- George Hall (Australia)
Hmmm...Ryo...pick a number and join the queue.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo, I've been threatened by experts on occasion. I note you don't seem to have any Facebook. Interesting ommision from your list of web/social media concerns.
- George Hall (Australia)
You could defend anything the same way. "Well, it got bad reviews because it was a bad product." But to say that reviews have no effect on the success of a product is mind-boggling to me. Why is there an entire industry based on reviewing products if those reviews have no impact on the product's success?
- invariant - farewell FF
Good products improve after a bad review.
- George Hall (Australia)
George - Or maybe the company's backers lose faith and pull their funding, drowning the baby before it has a chance to grow up.
- invariant - farewell FF
if the backers do that, then they don't think the product's worth going with. Whereas a good product won't lose backers.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo: name one great product that was kept down by a bad review. Almost every great product has gotten a bad review.
- Robert Scoble
Anyway, I'm outta here. Ryo: you can have the last word. It seems you're just pushing my buttons and I have an Apple thread to attend to. Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
George, you have a very altruistic view of business. Products get killed all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are. We'd all be playing games on the Sega Dreamcast II if that weren't the case.
- invariant - farewell FF
Admittedly, invariant. Guess I'm still a fan of honest business.
- George Hall (Australia)
I seem to remember someone making a mint out of a crap operating system...
- George Hall (Australia)
...but by the same token, over the long term, a great product fights back.
- George Hall (Australia)
Well take the Dreamcast for example: If Sega would have had more capital they could have kept that business going and potentially been successful, but they just ran out of money. Had nothing to do with the product itself, it had more to do with the business model (i.e. losing money on every console sold).
- invariant - farewell FF
And also because another business (Electronic Arts) decided not to support it.
- invariant - farewell FF
I think, Invariant, you've pointed out it has less to do with reviews. Bad product OR bad business model. Too easy to fail. Less to do with the review or the reviewer.
- George Hall (Australia)
And still no reason to have personal gripes against the reviewer
- George Hall (Australia)
George, absolutely. The Dreamcast example was one of a good product that failed, not because of reviews but because of other outside factors. The point is that the good guys do not always win. Reviewers should respect their power and be ethical when they review a product. That's my only point.
- invariant - farewell FF
It's just trying to make someone like Arrington a scapegoat for a product
- George Hall (Australia)
's troubles.
- George Hall (Australia)
Whoa, that's not what I was trying to do at all.
- invariant - farewell FF
Of course, a product maker should always expect a review may not always go the way they want...
- George Hall (Australia)
Regardless of anything Mike's done in the past to piss people off, I felt bad when I read the update on his post. It's really seemed like he was shook up from the comments he received. Considering the nature of them, I can't blame him. This might seem trivial, but it’s obvious that he was worried or he would have taken the time to correct the punctuation in his update. From my perspective, he’s comes across like an extremely sensitive guy, who has a few issues to deal with, just like the rest of us.
- Michael Fidler
I'm just pointing out that reviewers DO have power, and that power can both positively impact or negatively impact the success of a product. As a maker of video games I have direct experience with that.
- invariant - farewell FF
I doubt he will do it, but he needs to make more time for himself. If he does, I’m sure he would be a lot less abrasive and a lot happier too. You work equally hard Robert, but you love what you do, and it shows. Does Mike love what he’s does, or is it just work for him now?
- Michael Fidler
I don't think Arrington expected to see people behave with such bile and vehemence over such an issue. And of course that would upset him. And it upsets Robert, too, because Robert is still his friend, even if he and Mike occasionally have an intellectual disagreement.
- George Hall (Australia)
To be clear I have NO opinion on Mike or the work he does. I assume he's an ethical reviewer and I haven't heard otherwise. I just wanted to address Robert's notion that a good product will succeed despite reviews. I simply do not believe that's true 100% of the time.
- invariant - farewell FF
Heck, a few weeks back, Arrington and Techcrunch were the only ones who could tell me why Friendfeed was down for a few hours. Google couldn't. Not many other tech blogs could either. And I was glad he helped us stay informed on that situation.
- George Hall (Australia)
I feel like a heel for not understanding the true nature of this thread before jumping in. Let me say this in response to the REAL discussion in this thread: people should be ashamed for attacking Mike over something that was obviously a misunderstanding between himself and Leo. I hope Mike shrugs this off and continues to do just what he does now.
- invariant - farewell FF
Gillmor Gang is back on itunes! http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje...
- Jack
Jack, glad to see it on iTunes. looks like NewsGang live is toast. I am so bummed. I'm going to bed. :(
- Karoli
Or search "Gillmor Gang" in itunes and it's the one marked "Explicit"
- Jack
It looks like some of the latest Gillmor Gangs, the ones that were only released live, are now available on iTunes.
- Diego Barros
Looking forward to listening to these.
- Diego Barros
Me too, not sure why the new feed though. The old feed is just sitting there doing nothing.
- Matt Thompson
Matt, maybe the new feed's because the audio files (and feed) were living on TechCrunch's servers? Since gillmorgang.techcrunch.com is also gone? Not sure.
- Diego Barros
Leo is the holy Grail of tech for generations, to imply that he is even remotely dishonest is the same as calling all his fans dishonest and stupid, I admit I stopped following Techcrunch because of this incident, but I am not hating on Mike, I understand the jealous inner child in him made him say what he did, we all say bad things and a lynch mob is a little too far in this case.
- URLREVIEWS
I think Leo was feeling bad enough for accepting a test unit and Mike's words just sent him over the edge, Leo is honest all the way, anyone who listen to his techguy show knows that, the guy even suggest free alternatives to some of his sponsors, how fan dedicated is that? Leo is Legend.
- URLREVIEWS
It all comes down to comments, doesn't it? 1. Long comment threads on Friendfeed are a nightmare to read, especially on a handheld. Can somebody add a threading facility? 2. Anonymous on the internet needs to end. http://twittercism.com/anonymi... It's a poison, and it's the real story behind the Arrington/Laporte spat.
- Shéa Bennett
I think the comments went way overboard in their criticism of Arrington. The angle he was approaching his questioning from (that Palm were withholding review units) was legit. Just a shame that there was a misunderstanding on Leos part to interpret it as a question of his integrity.
- Jamie
The world is a hurting place and we find it much easier to attack others out of our own pain and dysfunction. Both people were sincere in their position, this example shows you how easy it is to be offended on both sides of the argument just by simply having a different perspective. It does appear Mike was questioning Leo's integrity even though the question was sincere in light of the story Mike was working on. I think we can move on and focus on more important issues.
- Owen Greaves
Bloggers must go where the conversation is. TechCrunch is not real time. He'll be back.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Maybe he will, maybe he won't but if he does, there's certainly no reason for anyone to smug and high horsey about it. We were the asshole on this matter, not him - and a strategic withdrawal from the forum was certainly warranted on his part temporary or permanent.
- Matthew DeVries
Garin: I think Mike will come to regret deleting his account, just like Leo came to regret deleting his Twitter account.
- Robert Scoble
He can always open a new one.
- Amit Morson
Matthew: if I ever get to that point where I get tired of dealing with everyone here, I'll just go private. That way if I want to jump back in at a future date I'll still have my account here. I think Mike made a mistake in just deleting his account. Amit: he could, but someone already took the techcrunch URL. For a business to give that up seems to be not smart, but that's just me.
- Robert Scoble
A few weeks ago I almost deleted my Twitter account and I'm glad I didn't for just that reason.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I am glad you didn't delete your twitter account ;) Just keep watering the FF garden instead !
- Susan Beebe
Robert - I'm not saying I condone his decision/action, just that I understand it. I'm sure if he were interested in reactivating/undeleting comments Paul et al would figure out a way to make it happen for him. Just that a barrier to his return is the potential for "told you you'd be back" smugness which is entirely unwarranted, and honestly prickish.
- Matthew DeVries
Robert, he doesn't have to deal with everyone. There is no need to respond to each and every bad comment made at him.
- Amit Morson
Robert: Mike may have lost 600 comments on TechCrunch but this thread already has 760 comments which makes it #1 on best of week, and we're all talking about TechCrunch. I'm impressed. Mike has already won from this move.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Garin, considering his loses and TechCrunch scale, I can't see that as a win.
- Amit Morson
Arrington has never liked FF, anyway. And what has being here done for him or Techcrunch? Has it increased his brand awareness, made him more money, got him laid? How can it be a loss when it's never been a gain?
- Dawn
Amit: The comments Mike lost were stale, this is fresh and undoubtedly building awareness about Mike and TC. The only way Mike has lost is by dropping friendfeed, but at least he has done so in style. Even here he has not lost because as I said before: he'll be back.
- Garin Kilpatrick
He lost his brand name, though I'm sure he can claim it back with FF.
- Amit Morson
The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of FF.
- Garin Kilpatrick
The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of <strike>FF</strike> all that he surveys. --FTFY Garin
- Matthew DeVries
Abuse? I thought these tools were available to use however we wish. I didn't realize there are FF Nazis demanding that their use is the only legitimate use.
- Dawn
Dammit Dawn......
- Matthew DeVries
lol Thanks Matthew!
- Garin Kilpatrick
Can you say BUTTHURT?
- Rustic Thoughts
Glad you waited for 771 comments and 4 days of thoughtful deliberation to bring us that nugget of well thought out brilliance Rustic. The staggering intellectual rigor of your timely, measured, and informed and above all unique point truly brings the discussion to a level that rivals that of the lycium or the Algonquin round table.
- Matthew DeVries
Thats a lot of big words for so early in the morning.
- Rustic Thoughts
"I didn't realize there are FF Nazi's demanding that their use is the only legitimate use" -- FINALLY... Jeez... I've been sitting here waiting patiently for Godwin's Law to kick it. It's been almost 48hrs since all this happened... must be a new record. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm giving this thread a *facepalm* award for the multiple site/acct deletions (TC/FF & GG/TC), over-the-top comments, and of course Mr. "BUTTHURT" and use of the term "FF Nazi" http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa...
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
What goes around comes around. Arrington is getting what he's been asking for, for a long time.
- Chris Luckhardt
Totally tangential, but using BuddyFriend to read a thread with 771 comments really isn't a nice experience :)
- Ian Betteridge
from BuddyFeed
Actually a better idea would have been to make his account private
- Abhishek
I can't find the Gillmor Gang section of TechCrunch... could that be removed too? (hopefully just temporarily)
- John Wright
John: Yes, it's gone at the moment.
- Ken Sheppardson
There's an unofficial Gillmor Gang podcast on itunes here: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... or the RSS here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
This is a tough situation. We all have reached the end of our patience at least once with someone that takes an effort to get along with, especially if we're exhausted by it. Some people are clueless about their impact on others. I've said things in those situations that I meant, but wished I had taken a higher road and said in a better way because it actually makes everything more stressful.
- Keith Barrett
Keith: It wasn't just one or two people it was like 20+ people who didn't even know the full story and jumped on the band-wagon. Those 20+ people also didn't bother to read the "Ouch" post on Techcrunch or watch the 2nd Gillmor Gang - infact they probably didn't even watch the first one - they probably just saw the 1minute clip on Youtube.
- Nicholas James
What a shame. What a shame this is still a mob. I've purposefully ignored this whole skirmish, having seen this coming a few weeks ago when the GG went to hell for an evening, and then another wee when Mike hung up and bailed on the show. It is a shame that Mike felt it necessary to delete his friendfeed account. It's also a shame that Mike seems to egg (mob)people on to the point of...
more...
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
invariant: the impact reviewers have is strongest on their readers, and their own reliability. if an author does not evaluate products honestly it will cause their audience, which may only be a small fraction of the total market, to make more poorly informed decisions and thereby undermines the value of their writing.
- Mike Chelen
Robert - Thanks for starting this thread. The calm voices and mostly sensitive nature of the comments have helped me begin to heal. I am emerging from this very trying weekend a changed person, trampled by a crowd wearing combat boots. I now know how scary mobs are.
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Tina: I once was in a real mob after a San Francisco 49er Super Bowl victory (I drove through it) and I've never been so terrified. It's interesting that my friend who told me off for pushing a mob a couple of years ago has been quiet with this mob. Ahh, I love studying how people work. Keep it up, let's get back in the saddle, what Steve, Mike, and you are doing is interesting. That's why the mob formed in the first place so don't forget that.
- Robert Scoble
*sigh* mobs suck
- Susan Beebe
If you have a mob that theoretically can be pushed at someone, you should be judged separately. It's like being a pro karate fighter - treated in court like a weapon.
- Kirill Bolgarov
Oh, by the way. techcrunch sucks and so does mashable. of course it's my personal opinion, but they have gone too far in the battles over traffic and pageviews. their destination is a tabloid with a few to no real value. the only reason i could click on a ЕС link was a good discussion onver it on friendfeed. so, they completely lost at least one reader because of their CEO's personal stuff. that's not that professional i guess
- Kirill Bolgarov
Other ways to read this feed:
