Bogdan Costea - Comments

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Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)

July 7 - Comment - Like - Share

ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,, Charles Frith, Vladimir Yashnikov and 149 other people liked this

Good point. - Robert Scoble

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I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms. - Swaroop

Including GNASH - the open source alternative - would solve that problem - Bogdan Costea

yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it. - Zio Bonino

Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho. - Matt Mastracci

Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great. - Rodfather

Is that Steve Jobs disguised as Zio ? - Swaroop

@Swaroop Yes, we do. Like HTML5. - Benjamin Dobson

@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :) - Zio Bonino

@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature - Swaroop

Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance. - Paul Buchheit

@Zio You're the real Steve Jobs - Swaroop

Microsoft moves much too slow to force new standards these days. - Louis Gray

@Louis: IE8 flunking ACID test :) - Swaroop

What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already. - Rodfather

h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is. - Paul Buchheit

I know some of the guys behind silverlight. It is some great technology. Too bad it's from Microsoft and is closed. - Joe Beda () from iPhone

A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait. - Paul Grav

Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open. - Paul Buchheit

MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5. - Paul Grav

Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha! - .LAG liked that

Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code." - Guy Vander Heyden

.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability. - Robert Scoble

Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too). - Swaroop

Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java - Ed F from Nambu

Does this mean the next Silverlight release is codename Seppuku? - Jay Cuthrell

Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open. - Rodfather

Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions. - Paul Buchheit

Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it? - .LAG liked that

So Google's NaCl http://code.google.com/p... (now integrated within Chrome/Chromium) was just a temporary workaround, right? - Jérôme Flipo

Use HTML 5 instead! - Minh Bui

Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach? - Daniel Chow

But who prevents Google from taking over the net? - Andreas

youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube. - vijay

You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition - Marcos Marado

The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML.... more... - Paul Buchheit

@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth. - Joel Webber

There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript. - Steve Temple

Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to! - Marcos Marado from fftogo

because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential - Mike Chelen

@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :) - Ihar Mahaniok

Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based. - Willowdale

@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well? - ianf ⌘

I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video - Scott Radcliff

I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like. - ianf ⌘

to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well - Chris Hofmann

somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight) - Karim

If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser. - Jeff Weber

Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though. - Scott Radcliff from email

Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do. - Saad Kamal

not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon. - Darren Stuart

Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on... more... - Kaan Bingol

People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA. - Hayes Haugen

Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support? - Paul Buchheit

I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial. - Hayes Haugen

Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-) - Karim

Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution? - Hayes Haugen

i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-) - Karim

How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements. - Derek Wei

All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;) - Hayes Haugen

Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow. - Ray Cromwell

That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch. - Scott Radcliff from email

I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it. - Nick Lothian

Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT - Ray Cromwell

I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is... more... - Fa La La La Lindsay

Azure looks really cool. Hint: so did Blackbird. - Michael R. Bernstein

lol blackbird (scary redmond flashback) - a good example of azure platform utilization can be seen via jon udell's elmcity project - http://blog.jonudell.net/elmcity... - mike "glemak" dunn

Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript. - Sebastian Wain

It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better. - Victor Ganata

...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is... more... - .LAG liked that

Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes... more... - ianf ⌘

I like this post! - Mohammad Abdurraafay from iPhone

I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows. - Victor Ganata

ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh> - .LAG liked that

alternative to flash video such as ... html5 :) (requires ff3.5) http://www.dailymotion.com/openvid... - Mike Chelen from IM

that only covers video and audio... *sigh* - Ed F from IM

Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube - Mike Chelen

I know, and it seems I'm the only one who mentions Flash's other uses... :-/ - Ed F from IM

Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block - Mike Chelen

Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash. - Ed F

Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck. - LANjackal

But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p... - Victor Ganata

write them yourself then. until then, I'll stick with desktop apps or Flash equivalents - Ed F from IM

I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it. - Victor Ganata

Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it... more... - .LAG liked that

Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough - Mike Chelen

LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme... - Mike Chelen

Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree - Charlie Anzman

still haven't updated yet. Busy with something on Firefox - LANjackal from IM

What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game... more... - Gabe

Yeah the video spec for HTML5 is currently a disaster - LANjackal from IM

Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology? - Kari Honkanen

Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL. - Paul Buchheit

Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future... more... - Kari Honkanen

I agree that the future is neither open nor closed, but a mixture of the 2. Been preaching that for a while now, but then again there are the fanatics on either side who can't see anything other than a homogenous future - LANjackal from IM

I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues... more... - Ray Cromwell

Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.' - Cliff Gerrish

MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :) - Claudio Cicali ♋

MSFT sucks Claudio :) - Orlando Pozo

@caludio: They've already done that, somewhat. Silverlight 4 Beta supports Chrome. However I'm pretty sure it's probably technically impractical to run another browser atop Chrome OS anyway - LANjackal from IM

Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me. - Karoli

If the concept of open source didn't allow for competitive business plans then quite a few companies that depend on it wouldn't exist. The "happy smiley" image most FOSS zealots promote isn't reflective of reality. There will always be competition, even among the free - LANjackal from IM

I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it). - Paul Buchheit

I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong). - Johnny Worthington

Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there. - Paul Buchheit

Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel. - Victor Ganata

@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway. - Nick Lothian

My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL. - Gabe

not rly, the defeat of Flash & SL depends on the rise of HTML5, which will b supported by multiple browsers. Unfortunately spec disagreements r holding that up. That's another advantage of closed systems : fewer cooks often makes the broth get done faster lol - LANjackal from IM

it is possible to have smaller groups for open source software, such as google's own gears api http://code.google.com/apis... - Mike Chelen

How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare. - Gabe

@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed? - Nick Lothian

HTML 5's not "missing" much in terms of its ambition. What it's missing is a consensus among its contributors. Flash and SL have gone through several iterations while HTML 5's been sitting there - LANjackal from IM

Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps. - Gabe

@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion). - Joel Webber

So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS? - Cliff Gerrish

No they won't, because it Silverlight already runs on Chrome as of Beta 4 - LANjackal from IM

Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me. - Gabe

@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff. - Nick Lothian

Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself. - Gabe

Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity. - Dan Douglass

Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser. - Dan Douglass

Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash. - Gabe

Anyone else think Joy is Spam? - Chris Myles

already reported it yesterday :) - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ from IM

Jason Huebel

I'm quitting drinking entirely. I get more done that way. :-P I'd rather be high on life.

October 29 - Comment - Like - Share

rowlikeagirl, Steven Perez, Kol Tregaskes and 10 other people liked this

But you miss a lot of tasty beers that way =) - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

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if you drink for taste instead of buzz...but i've only met 3 ppl in my life who did it that way. the rest just wanted to get wasted. - Joe Silence is not Santa

Once you meet me you can bring the total to 4, sir. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

I drink far less now than I used to. - Derrick

@Dead, I don't drink to get wasted. But if I drink alcohol, I tend to get sleepy or just want to chill and do nothing. Thus the reason for my comment. - Jason Huebel

nice to meet you, now you know 5. I only like lemon beer, martini and ouzo :) - Bogdan Costea

Oh, and make it 6. Since I drink for taste was well. - Jason Huebel

I've quit drinking entirely many times. ;) - Cristo

getting buzzed != getting wasted. i drink for taste, but i'd be lying if i said the buzz wasn't fun. getting shitfaced, however, is not so much fun. - tiffany

Robert Scoble

kevinrose: RT: oh god m̸͖̳ͮ̂̂y̢̠͍͓̞̰̫̆ ̦̝̼͈ͨ͆ͧͅb͎͉͓̙͇̳̱̯ͨ̑r̛̙̺͉̮̩̯̺ͭ̉͂̆ͨͫ̚ả͏̵̰̦̗̻̩͖̼͉͜i̴̪̬̮̫̫̘̼̬̞͆̌̔͟i͍̫̝͇̰̗̬̽̇ͅn̷̰͚͉̪̒́ͫ̿ͥ̏ͪ̕͢ (via @joshu) - http://twitter.com/kevinro...

September 6 from Twitter / Favorites from... - Comment - Like - Share

Tanath, Jimminy Fuller, i80and and 11 other people liked this

oh w̷̶̤͇̠̹͍̥̦̻͎͕̦͚͈̗͊̓̊̍̊̌ͦͨ̋͆͑͛ͥ̿̀͞͠ͅơ̗̖̖̼̞̝̼̮͖̝̤̼̲͍ͣ͊͊̀̚͞ẅ̶̒͗ͫ̿̅̅̅ͨ̓ͦͮ̄ͪ̇̐͏̠͚̺͔!̓͋̄ͨ̎͘͏͙̪͚̪̣̱̞̱͇͇͟͝͡ - Burcu Dogan

16 more comments

What the hell.... - Ben Hanten

H̵̡̢̖̙͖̞̮Ȩ̪͓̗̞͈͓͚̱̼͖͍̺̯̮͇̼̩̜͚͞ ̸̨̭̭̯̜̼̗C̵̴̮̰͔̘̹̯̤͈̗͖̺̹̪̜̣̫͔̥͢ͅỌ̵̞̲͔̦͖͙͚͙̭͕̺̯͙́͟ͅM̴̨̮̞̘̰͔͕̞͇̪̪̫̣̖̪̱̝̰͢͟ͅÉ̻̩͙̰͚͝Ş̶͕͈̞̙̳̩̝̮͟͟͡ - Christopher A Carr

Do you all see the jibberish text? - Bogdan Costea

Y͚̙̰̖̩̱̞ͅE̞͚̖̺̻̫̞̮̻͓͖S̗̘̹̼͇̪̰,͎̙͈͚̠̫̣͈͖̟̝̲͎͍̻̖͕̻ ͈̱͚͖͍̣̳ͅH̙͔̹̙̞͙͔̪̟̹͓͉̘E̗̜̤̳̭̮͚ͅͅ ̹̟͉̳̜̠D͓̹̞̼ͅO̞̘̙̣̭͎̪͎̲̲͎͓̱̥̬͎̗͔ͅE̤̫͚̼̰̟̠̻̱̤̟S̭̠͚̗̻̦͙̯̯̤͚͎̠ - Christopher A Carr

What happened here??! - Jannifer @wordsforliving

I got it. he used some vertical Unicode chars. Like this: ̷̷̷̷̷̷̛̰͚͉̪̰͚͉̪̰͚͉̪̰͚͉̪̰͚͉̪̰͚͉̪̙̺͉̮̩̯̺̒́ͫ̿ͥ̏ͪ̒́ͫ̿ͥ̏ͪ̒́ͫ̿ͥ̏ͪ̒́ͫ̿ͥ̏ͪ̒́ͫ̿ͥ̏ͪ̒́ͫ̿ͥ̏ͪͭ̉͂̆ͨͫ̕̕̕̕̕̕̚͢͢͢͢͢͢ ̛̙̺͉̮̩̯̺ͭ̉͂̆ͨͫ̚ ̴̪̬̮̫̫̘̼̬̞͆̌̔͟i͍̫̝͇̰̗̬̽̇ͅ - Bogdan Costea

Stop it!! - Andre P. Siregar

How's about using them in your display name :) - Bogdan Costea

hahaha.... i used it to update my Facebook statuz. No one cares;p But here on FF even Jesse Stay and Scoble RT it. I ♥ FF!! - zʍıɔ

kind of alien characters - Иван Широкоff

Hmmm... - Jesse Stay

credit @rstevens (of Diesel Sweeties) for the original unicode tweet http://twitter.com/rsteven... - The Web's Wendell Wittler

whats so special about it? it creates confusion for me atleast, i was even going to report it to chrome support as a bug ;) - testbeta

wow! - Susan Beebe from BuddyFeed

wtf are those? - Merry Xmas FFeeders - AJ

That hurts my head. - Rochelle

what is going on? - Marissa

Kol Tregaskes to Kol's feed, FriendFeed Talk, All Things Google, FriendFeed for Beginners

A Google Map of FriendFeeders - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps...

August 8 - Comment - Like - Share

Irma Vermaat, 'Like' robot (frɐnc), Holly Rae and 235 other people liked this

If you click on Edit you can add yourself too. Original created by Mark Krynsky: http://ff.im/5rwh #whatsyoururl - Kol Tregaskes

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I can not edit? :( - Matt Ruiz

I see ThenWang:) - K.D.

Matt, do you have a Edit button at the top-left of the page? - Kol Tregaskes

Very Cool! Just added myself! - TheHenry

i add myself too. - Semih Masat ™

If you don't see an "Edit" button, you have to log in and add it to your own maps first. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

To add your picture instead the default blue marker, you have to click on the blue marker at the top-right, click on "add an icon" link and type the url of your avatar - Roberto

Excellent, thanks for sharing - lelapin

I thought there were a lot more FFers in LA than is shown on that map. - Spidra Webster

Cool!:) - Patrik Johansson

FYI.. your picture can be: http://friendfeed-api.com/v2... - Tim Hoeck

Thanks for that, Roberto. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Finally I understand the coolness with Google Maps:) - Patrik Johansson

I see I'm not the only one accidentally editing the title. Today I learned how to make a custom icon for Google Maps :) - Nick B.

I did that as well, I think :) - Tim Hoeck

Nick, I've edited the title and description, don't touch. ;-) - Kol Tregaskes

Yeah, it seems pretty simple to edit the title by mistake. - Patrik Johansson

:-) - Kol Tregaskes

done - RAPatton

i can't do it....every time I try, I edit the title... - laetSgo

Yay! Scott and I are on it now. :-) - Ladybug Heather

Cool! - Kol Tregaskes

D'oh! It wasn't showing me, so I kept adding. I ended up with three markers after I logged out and back in! - Laura B.

Oops. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

This is pretty cool.. We need more scandinavian FFeeders though :) - Anton Tanderup

Anton, perhaps post something here: http://friendfeed.com/ffdirec... and copy in: http://friendfeed.com/europea... - Kol Tregaskes

I'm on! (and sadly, the only one in Calgary - nice to see a few in Red Deer, though) - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

I added it, but the photo looks rather large. Just used the url of my profile pic. Very cool! thanks for setting this up! http://www.friendfeed.com/lizaspe... SF, CA - Liza

K, I'm on there. - David Cook

I should be there now... - Alejandro

Added myself. :) - Jon, the Chilled Beartato

Adding myself now. - Evan Travers

Added! :) - Merry Xmas FFeeders - AJ

Finish & Finito - Something Like that Just Added my Name to the List - Ray Marr aka Knatchwa

hmm, it works - A.T.

Nice job... Way to go Kol! - Mitchell Tsai

Just added myself, nice idea. - ialla

Probably being a bit thick here. Can add placemark, but how do I get it to appear in the list at the side with a link to it? - Gordon Herd

if you've added a placemark, then it is on the list - at the bottom of the last page. - Joel from IM

I find the UI horribly confusing. No idea how to add. - Stephen Mack

added :) - Mert Alemdar

Okay, surely I'm not the only one from Hawaii? - Ryan - @magicofpi

Cool！ - mingqing

This is a cool service! Search Feature is too gud. - eva

Thanks for adding yourselves. Mitchell, it's actually Mark Krynsky's map: http://ff.im/5rwh - Kol Tregaskes

Note everyone, we can add this as a layer for Google Latitude/Maps on our mobiles. - Kol Tregaskes

Why my changes are lost after saving and refreshing the map? I just click edit, saved and done: where's my mistake? - Roberto

from izmir ;) - Ali Bahşişoğlu

added - Thomas Power

added myself =) - Seyhan Çelik

Roberto, so you click on Edit, add your marker, hit Save then Done? - Kol Tregaskes

Just added myself to the map. The Google placemark positioning tool sucks, too. - Tyson Key

The larger icons are smashing the smaller ones. Oh well. - Bradley Farless

@Kol Yes, my name appear in the list, but the marker is missing in the map (tried with and without the avatar). - Roberto from fftogo

anyone finding difficulty to add yourselves on the map? 1.click on the map-this will bring you to google map site 2.you have to sign in your google account to get the edit button on the map 3.then click on the edit button and add yourselves on the map. cheers. - Hamid Mat sain MD

Added. Antananarivo, Madagascar - Thierry R. Andriamirado

done - Bogdan Costea

done! - Rick Cogley

Just added myself, although, I slightly moved my placemarker, just so people don't know where I live :) - MλTT

From what I've noticed: When I'm at the first page of 2, I only see those markers on the map...from the people that are on the first page. Do you know what I mean? I'm added on the second page, so when I browse through the first page I won't see my marker on the map...only when I go to the next page. I don't know if this makes any sense hehe. - Patrik Johansson

hey, i'm feeling alone i my north of quebec ;) - BotchChiKii

Added myself with little icon. I am so proud! - Gordon Herd

added my self also - Demetrios the Traveller

Cool! - Kol Tregaskes

Here be I, woo. - Tsali, The Native of FF

Thanks, Patrick! - Roberto

Added - Michael Fidler

Done - M F

added myself :) - Baard @ Pixum

Added - very neat to see pins all over the world. - Alex Hellstrom

Excellent Presentation! - Naseem Ahmed

I'm in! :D - CannonGod

just added myself - Bill Rawlinson

:-) - Kol Tregaskes

Added :) - Sergey Juchkov

wow - Ahmet Soyata

Whoa, great job reviving this project Kol. Awesome to see all the new users! - Mark Krynsky

No worries, Mark. Thanks for the map. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Quite surprising how many of the US states are empty. The word has yet to spread inland. - Nick B.

Okay I'm in too. Thanks for the map, great idea! - Paria Sabooki

Added. Hope to see more North Carolina markers added. Surely I'm not the only one? - cdogzilla

added myself too... :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

The map! I'm on there! :-) - James (!?)

it starts to load and i can see an edit button, but before even clicking it another old custom map of mine comes up instead o_O - Mike Chelen

Added my pin :) - Simon Wicks

:-) - Kol Tregaskes

I forgot I was on this! - Martin Bryant

Somehow I managed to not be on this, fixed now! - Glenn Slaven

:-) - Kol Tregaskes

I added myself, plus I got to learn how to make a custom icon for Google Maps. - DGentry

Cool. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

I'm in! - metalerik

Cool! - Kol Tregaskes

Any more for the map? :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Ta-da! - Timothy Griffin

anyone can find me from now on right ;) - Burçak Çubukçu

added! - Leandro Ardissone ⍨

Cool! :-) - Kol Tregaskes

I had temporarily, accidentally "hijacked" the title...it's fixed now... - Ciro

cool - Brent - Loving Life

Added! - Simon Curran

Can't believe I'm the only one in Belgium ... - Irma Vermaat

Bogdan Costea

Really funny list with questions about Australia http://markcbuffy.blogspot.com/2006...

September 1 - Comment - Like - Share

Q.) Do you have perfume in Australia? (France) A.) No, WE don't stink. - Bogdan Costea

April Buchheit

Mary River Turtle - http://fakmegszarok.blogspot.com/2009...

August 31 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Paul Stamatiou, b@x, Merry Xmas FFeeders - AJ and 16 other people liked this

"The australian amateur photographer Chris Van Wyk was snorkeling in the Mary River, a river system in South East Queensland, Australia, when met this beauty and didn’t lose the cance to take some amazing shots. Some weeds have grown on the head of this Mary River Turtle creating the illusion of a green crest that could make even a Sex Pistols really envious…" - April Buchheit from Bookmarklet

How slowly do you have to move to get weeds growing on you? - Gabe

She is soooo trendy - Bogdan Costea

vijay to vijay's feed, Jason Huebel

The logo and the rest of the package which is a spacing grid, symbol and a 100 x 100 px avatar for use in the openff friendfeed room and twitter account.

August 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego, Jesper Lind, Merry Xmas FFeeders - AJ and 17 other people liked this

Very nice!!! - Michael Fidler

17 more comments

Good Job Canada! ( I just had to use that one more time...) - Joe

Jason wanted me to work on the spacing and he's right; I had to tweak it a little. I'm keeping the overall spacing tight 'cause it just looks delicious with tighter spacing than loose spacing. - vijay

Also, I'm going to make that symbol into a locket and wear it... 24 x 7. - vijay

thanks Michael : ) lol J :D - vijay

Not a bad idea! - Michael Fidler

These look really great vijay. Clean and visually interesting. - Jason Huebel

Really liking these. You've done a great job, man. - Derrick

This is more like it, liking how the project is shaping up. - Gtp19

vijay is a badass designer. - Josh Haley

Well done Vij, I'm sad that I'm not a part of the logo, but I'm happy that the better logo made it. Nice work:)) - अभिषेक(Abhishek) Das

lol! thanks you guys :D I'm just a conceptualizer/strategist, don't see myself as a designer; I have not studied design; I'm an Electrical Engineer :D - vijay

Heyyy, I'm a wouldbe Electrical Engineer too!!!! (Check my profile) :) - अभिषेक(Abhishek) Das

can i ask a dumb question? whtas the funky O signify ? - viki saigal

viki, original thread with info ---->- http://friendfeed.com/openff... broken "o" symbolizing 'open', thumb and forefinger holding up an "o", round table with a guy... many interpretations - vijay

Am i the only one that thinks the "o" looks very much like a wedding ring? It makes me think jewelry shop. Other than that i like it. - Lasse Johnsen

This is really nice work! - Bogdan Costea

why trying to close the open in O ! - Nayan

yep Lasse, it does when you look at the symbol and then someone points it out about jewelry. When using it with the logotype, it's ok(i.e as part of "openff"). thanks Bogdan. : ) Nayan, bigger O is the barrier and the smaller o is a user breaking it. Many other interpretations too; see my comment above Lasse's. - vijay

Yuvi

Seinfeld is funny.

August 21 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Bogdan Costea liked this

It's a bird, it's a plane..... - Bogdan Costea

Costanza? Can't Stand Ya? - Outsanity

I choose not to run! - Akiva Moskovitz

Sean McBride to Sean's feed, Mideast Politics, US Politics

CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years - http://www.easenews.net/...

July 15 from Bookmarklet - Comments disabled - Like - Share

Lisa zahara Hopkins, Tanath, Sean Oliver and 67 other people liked this

"A study conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has cast doubt over Israel’s survival beyond the next 20 years.CIA on Future of Israel The CIA report predicts “an inexorable movement away from a two-state to a one-state solution, as the most viable model based on democratic principles of full equality that sheds the looming specter of colonial Apartheid while allowing for the return of the 1947/1948 and 1967 refugees. The latter being the precondition for sustainable peace in the region.” The study, which has been made available only to a certain number of individuals, further forecasts the return of all Palestinian refugees to the occupied territories, and the exodus of two million Israeli – who would move to the US in the next fifteen years." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

331 more comments

"He said CIA, in its report, alludes to the unexpectedly quick fall of the apartheid government in South Africa and recalls the disintegration of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, suggesting the end to the dream of an ‘Israeli land’ would happen ‘way sooner’ than later." - Sean McBride

WOW, this is an interesting study...however its aim seems to be little more than a self-fulfilling prophecy...out of touch with realities. - Hayk H.

Not if I can help it! And I am not alone! Israel is my home, my Jewish home! Israel does not belong to UN, CIA, or America! Sean, your antisemitism is offensive! You may not like Israel to be a Jewish state, but your fixation with the topic smells foal Do you talk about any other political issues besides the Jews? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Actually, this may be the most plausible and realistic scenario out there at the moment. The comparison of Israel to apartheid white South Africa is especially telling. - Sean McBride

This potential scenario is why it's in Israel's interest to implement a two-state solution as quickly as possible. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

John -- I think the opportunity to implement a two-state solution has slipped by. Too late. Now Israel is on a collision course with the entire world, and especially with the Western democratic world -- much like apartheid white South Africa just before its collapse. - Sean McBride

Sean, guessing or predicting future in itself is quite unrealistic - clairvoyant and astrologers would fare better...but making a guess as wild as that - let apart for the moment sympathies for or grudges against Israel - is just a plain timewaster unless of course it is driven by some misleading PR agenda.. - Hayk H.

Igor -- how many Americans and Europeans, from presidents and heads of state on down, have been attacked by pro-Israel activists at this point -- often viciously attacked? (See, for instance, Pamela Geller's posts on Barack Obama at Atlas Shrugs: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_s...) This is one of those fateful trendlines that tends to give credence to this scenario. Israel should never have become an issue of ugly contention in American and European politics. - Sean McBride

Apartheid...ok, I know some people call it that. But a CIA report calling it that? An official US government report using the Apartheid with the word Israel? Doesn't that raise the 'bs' meter to some folks? That would be basically unheard of. I mean, the use of that word alone raises into question the entire existence (or lack thereof) of this report. Has anyone seen a link that doesn't... more... - Andrew Leyden

Andrew -- the previous Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, used the word "apartheid" to describe self-destructive trends in Israeli politics. The meme has been out there in a big way for some time. Try Googling ~israel ~apartheid for a torrent of results. It wouldn't be surprising if the CIA has noticed. - Sean McBride

Sean are you calling Vatican city an apartheid state? Should Jews Catholic, Muslims, Gays, Atheists, and all kind of agnostic people reside at Vatican City, just because Sean is an Atheist who denounces all religious believes? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Sean, by the same logic, America needs to remove "In God we Trust" from its currency. Remove One nation under God in its Constitution. Why not in #PurplCow we trust? or even PurpleCows! Or better yet, in Sean McBride we trust, Oh Lordship! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Hi Sean. I've done a google search but all I get is the same old same old. Quotes read almost verbatim from other quotes (i.e. a key sign that it is a story being passed virally rather than others having seen something and writing independently). Many of the sites who have picked up the story are biased, to say the least. Maybe I'm just more skeptical than most, and if there is a report I'd like to see more (really, I'd like to see it), but even just a quick search has my BS detector beeping. - Andrew Leyden

I'm pretty sure "one nation under god" does not appear in the U.S. Constitution. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Yes, John it is in the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States of America which is charted by the constitution! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Andrew -- you find it unrealistic that that the CIA might be speculating that Israel could be facing the same fate as apartheid white South Africa? Nothing could be more realistic -- these ideas have been circulating at the highest policy circles around the world for years now (including in Israel). - Sean McBride

Igor, certainly you are not trying to have a rational discussion with Sean on this subject, are you? It's not possible but anyway, I enjoy your fervor. - Myrna

Maybe America needs to pledge allegiance to CIA, or Rober Scoble, or FAIL WHALE LMAO #failwhale - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Yes, it's in a revised version of the Pledge of Allegiance, but the Pledge and the Constitution are different documents. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Myrna, thanks! I am just trying to point out what type of hypocrite Sean McBride is. And how much alternative agenda PR propaganda Sean has been doing on FriendFeed anti-Israel and against the Jewish people, for the past year. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

This is the same bunch of wizards that completely missed the fall of the Soviet Union, right? - MVB (Grinch of FF)

Never happen. This sounds like more end of the worlder stuff. As that is the only way Israel would dissolve. Historically Israel has zero in common with South Africa. - Todd Hoff

Igor -- should non-ethnic Germans be barred from living in Germany or be deported from Germany? Wait -- that was tried. It was called Nazism. Apartheid white South Aftica also tried to play that game. - Sean McBride

John, I realize the Pledge and the Constitution are different documents, but you Pledge to the country which is governed and created by the Constitution. under the declaration of independence. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

I'm not sure if the time for a two-state solution has passed, but I think it's perilously close. The trouble is that Israel's moderates will have to fight hard against extremist elements to get any such solution implemented (when I say "extremists" I mean people of the sort that assassinated Rabin). That fight will take time and effective leadership, which I doubt Netanyahu can provide given his dependence on right-wing elements to stay in power. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

"Israel risks apartheid-like struggle if two-state solution fails, says Olmert" (November 30, 2007) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world... "Israel's prime minister issued a rare warning yesterday that his nation risked being compared to apartheid-era South Africa if it failed to agree an independent state for the Palestinians. In an interview with the Israeli newspaper... more... - Sean McBride

Well Sean, when you can show yourself as unbiased individual, ny talking about other stuff besides Israel and the Jewish people, we can have an open and logical discussion. Until then, please study the Jewish history, like millenniums of persecution from Exile to Egypt as slave to Holocaust. Now read this article to start with The Western Wall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Sean, you're not really that gullible are you? Obviously Ehud Olmert had his personal/political motives when he made those comments. LOOOOL - Myrna

Myrna -- is the substance of Olmert's comments correct? Israel is now in a state of sharp conflict with the entire Western democratic world over the issue of settlements -- we've seen this pattern before with militant ethnocentric states that got on the wrong side of mainstream Western democratic values and trends. - Sean McBride

There are 4,720,000 Google hits on the Israeli apartheid issue -- it is huge: http://www.google.com/#q=~isr... One doesn't need the presence of an alleged secretive CIA report on the matter to get the picture. The controversy is screaming at one in full public view. - Sean McBride

Sean - Do I think the US is speculating Israel may end up like South Africa? Yup. Have people called it Apartheid? Yup. Do I think this specific report is bogus? Yes. It fails on so many alarms it's not funny. EVERY google reference I could find was a direct verbatim link back to the original, which is apparently from PRESS.TV! I mean, Press.TV. It uses loaded language like Apartheid,... more... - Andrew Leyden

Sean, you are in the 1% vision of our limited 5 senses. :) Haven't you ever had something happen in your ownpersonal life that were completely unexplainable? Whether Israel lives on is in the 99%. It's not up for discussion unless you simply want a back and forth intellectual dialogue. - Myrna

Amein! Now Sean, go have a Cheezeburger! LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Myrna -- are you saying that you have access to mystical faculties that permit you to refute and dismiss Ehud Olmert's remarks about apartheid without any rational arguments? :) Or am I misunderstanding you? Where do you think the current conflict between Israel and the Western democratic world over Israeli settlements is going? - Sean McBride

Sean, I think you have enough energy on this post for it to qualify for 'best of the day' maybe best of the month lol :))) - Myrna

Andrew -- I don't know whether this report exists or not. I do know that the points of view that are being ascribed to the alleged report are being discussed openly in high policy circles all around the world, and within the United States. An Israeli prime minister gave a strong push to the meme in 2007 (see the quote from the Guardian article above). The debate over these issues... more... - Sean McBride

20 years, isn't that what the scholars said about capitalism? - xero

Sean, I think whatever is 'supposed' to happen...WILL! I think that the settlers will be forced to give up their need to 'hoard'(due to their own fear) and stop letting their egos control their behavior. That said, there are lessons for Israel and the rest of the world that continue to show up. Each of us(including regions, states, etc) have lessons to work through which can't be... more... - Myrna

xero -- some analysts predicted that the apartheid white regime in South Africa would collapse; that the U.S. war in Vietnam would fail; that the newspaper industry would collapse; that the American automotive industry would collapse; that Communism would collapse; that the Iraq War would prove to be a debacle for the United States, etc. Sometimes forecasters get it right. - Sean McBride

Myrna -- with regard to karma: I've read a great deal of Buddhist texts and am wide open to non-rational modes of consciousness. But I've noticed that political movements which rely heavily on mysticism and messianism tend to misread reality and self-destruct on a regular basis. With regard to the settlements and settlers: my prediction is the opposite of yours. I am predicting that... more... - Sean McBride

Forecasts sometimes turn out to be right, but sometimes turn out to be wrong because of forces the forecasters didn't foresee. A wrong forecast doesn't mean forecasts are not worth taking seriously; they represent potential scenarios based on current trends. If this is really a CIA report, it's worth considering since they likely have access to information that we don't. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Andrew: wow -- the discussion about this alleged CIA report has been much more widespread than I realized. I just did a quick Google search and discovered: http://www.google.com/#q=cia+... Since Ehud Olmert, Jimmy Carter, Desmond Tutu and dozens of other leading political figures and intellectuals have outlined a similar scenario in recent years, it's not surprising... more... - Sean McBride

Igorovich, interesting you mention the Wailing Wall. Isn't that is a rather late historical invention? Wasn't for centuries the Mount of Olives the place were the destruction of the temple was celebrated? This CIA report is clearly a hoax, but not such a bad one. The best hoaxes always contain a grain of truth. - LeaNder

Temple Mount is where the temple was, Mount of Olives is higher than the Temple Mount and was used for celebration and mornings for the temple. But these aside, read the Wikipedia page on Western Wall to see how the Jews were persecuted and denied to pray there, by the Arabs. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Israel vs. the Western democratic world: the Western democratic world strongly: 1. opposes Jewish settlements in the occupied territories 2. supports the creation of a viable Palestinian state 3. opposes a military attack on Iran. 4. opposes ethnic nationalist, religious nationalist, and ethno-religious nationalist states in general. The United States has just been badly burned in a war... more... - Sean McBride

FriendFolks….. hel-lo!!??? All this talk for and against Sean's bullshit hypothesis is of no consequence. Go, take a look at the map. Israel has nowhere to go, and so, if threatened with destruction, it will make life pretty unbearable for its attackers (current concentration-camp-like conditions in Gaza will be nothing in comparison: http://www.paltoday.com/arabic...... more... - ianf ⌘

ianf -- there are more subtle factors in play than military force in the rise and fall of nations throughout history. Apartheid white South Africa was highly confident in its military prowess and its ability to mete out suffering to its opponents. Still, it sank like a stone. Ethnic nationalist states in general are on shaky ground in the 21st century -- history has passed them by. - Sean McBride

Let's get something clear here, Sean. You can pontificate on the historical parallels or analogies all you like but, for reasons too various to mention, Israel established itself firmly where it is when it was given half a chance (in 1947-1948). The Palestinian Arabs didn't grab the same chance then extended to them - nor any other, however crippled, chances they had later (Anwar Sadat... more... - ianf ⌘

I can't think of a forecast over a period longer than 2 years that has ever been met as expected. - xero

ianf -- within the larger sweep of history, these arguments back and forth about who is right and who is wrong are meaningless. The rise and fall of nations is always the product of an intersection and combination of real-world physical factors. Nations and regimes on the decline are almost always in denial, and are usually brimming over with clever arguments assembled by propagandists like Frank Luntz to explain why what is really happening isn't really happening. - Sean McBride

xero -- I can think of quite a few forecasts over periods longer than 2 years that have been accurate on the main points, if not on all the details and particulars. I've made a few of them myself. :) It's not difficult: simply see clearly what is directly in front of your nose and trust your own perceptions. - Sean McBride

I've spoken to Benny Morris last year after a public lecture on the possible outcomes of the Israeli-Arab conflicts [amend: pluralis] in the region, too complex to summarize here. He concluded the talk with this (here paraphrased) winged sentence: "Of course, all those scenarios will be moot once Iran reaches the stage of producing enough plutonium - after which all bets are off." Benny... more... - ianf ⌘

ianf -- I've read Benny Morris's books, and know his story -- and am pleased to see that you are familiar with his thinking also. Obviously you've invested some serious effort in trying to figure out this complex situation. Apparently we've come to different conclusions after analyzing the key data and trends, but differences keep the world interesting. - Sean McBride

How to predict social, political, cultural, scientific and technological futures: identify the best, the strongest upcoming minds in any field or area of activity, and graph where they are trending. They will often be trending directly against the status quo and into the unimaginable. - Sean McBride

Andrew and Leander: I am pretty good at spotting hoaxes, and have often called them out when they appear on the Internet. After mulling over the comments about this alleged CIA report, I think it is for real, although the description of the report may be distorted here and there in the particulars. Why do I think it is real? Look and feel. Political context. Style. It smells like the... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, are you happy? You don't give it up for 1 second. Take a hint from ianf. RELAX!!! What do you do for fun..analyze the world situation? If you really had the answer, then what? How are you helping the world to be more sharing, giving, caring and loving? - Myrna

Sean, you are a False Prophet, Israel will survive. The Jews will survive. Israel is given by God to the Jewish people as a gift to the whole world. Please read this post and the comments http://www.igorthetroll.com/blog... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

One sees more irrationality, illogic and fantastical and magical thinking associated with Mideast politics than with probably any other topic under the sun. It's fascinating stuff, and exceedingly dangerous stuff. - Sean McBride

I reccon Israel will prolly be about where it is in 20 years. - Will Higgins™

Igor: you should check out Glenn C. Altschuler's "Einstein and Complex Analyses of Zionism" in the July 24, 2009 issue of Forward: http://www.forward.com/article...: "“Judaism Does Not Equal Israel” is a sharper — and shriller — version of Einstein’s critique of the Jewish state. A “post-Holocaust” theology, according to Marc Ellis, professor of Jewish studies and director of the... more... - Sean McBride

(Continued) "'Acknowledging that Israel is not likely “to reverse its expansionist course,” Ellis ends with mourning — and a warning. No state, he writes, apocalyptically, can exercise power over others indefinitely. As the day of reckoning nears, the children of Israel “will encounter such hollowness at the core of Jewish identity that their distance from things Jewish will increase until, incrementally, the core disappears” and Jewish affiliation dwindles “to the point of no return.”" - Sean McBride

Sean, The Judaism core will never disappear.Israel will never disappear. Israel and Judaism is one and the same. Judaism will live forever. This is God's will. Amein - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- many of the best Jewish minds of the last century, including Albert Einstein and Marc Ellis, strongly disagree with the claim promoted by religious Zionists and Jewish fundamentalists that Zionism = Judaism. In fact, they have argued persuasively that that cult belief is a form of false messianism that is destined to provoke a great catastrophe for the Jewish tradition. I am placing my bets on those thinkers, not on the fundamentalists. - Sean McBride

google(false ~messianism OR ~messiah http://www.google.com/#q=fals...) Also: google(false ~messianism OR ~messiah harkabi http://www.google.com/#q=fals...) - Sean McBride

My bet is with God. So is my heart and my soul. ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

I don't buy the comparison with South Africa in part because of the strict economic sanctions South Africa suffered due to Apartheid that Israel does not suffer (well, yet). It may be a real report, but strikes me as so much speculation right now. - Rob Haas

I'm talking from a different angle(I'm not Jewish, Muslim or Palestinian or American.... or even interested about religion) but aren't you all sick of this conflict? The area is so beautiful, with a huge potential. Most of us(and most of the region's population) weren't even alive during the Holocaust or during the Exodus for that matter. Most of us don't even care if you're Jewish or Palestinian or a fricking martian for that matter. - Bogdan Costea

Let me see: They have our money, they have our military, they have first spot in our markets, they command our leaders, they tell us how bad we are, We do everything for them except for that little operation ar distinguishes them. So what more do they want???? - ThatDBD

First of all, that is the one of the most shady and terribly written articles I have ever seen. Hard to see that as an authoritative source. Second, there are zillions of experts predicting the future all the time. How many end up being right? Not many. I think that with the ever increasing trend of anti-semitism around the world, more and more Jews will seek to make their lives in... more... - Miriam

Miriam -- since a former Israeli prime minister (Ehud Olmert) and a former American president (Jimmy Carter) have already pushed this meme into public discourse, it wouldn't be surprising to learn that the CIA has been exploring this scenario in secret. I am betting that the story is essentially true. The references to the collapse of white South Africa and the Soviet Union sound very CIA-ish stylistically. - Sean McBride

"biased-for-rationality" self-perception and social perception ... Igorovitch, your sermon I should study Jewish history and antisemitism is late by several decades now. Do want me to list what I read about it. How about comparing? What did you read? My problem in a nutshell: based on my knowledge, I am slightly puzzled by the similarities of the Jewish perception of the "Arab mind". - LeaNder

"Israel is given by God to the Jewish people as a gift to the whole world. ", yes indeed, it looks like. The gift of WWIII/IV and armageddon. - LeaNder

Armageddon is something that will come if the world makes it come. There is always hope for the human race. If you looking to blame Israel and the Jews for your problems, get in line! You will not be first, or the last to do it.. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Miriam -- I was under the impression that the rate of emigration from Israel now exceeds the rate of immigration. Did I get that wrong? It is also interesting that most of the most fervent pro-Israel activists on the net have chosen not to live in Israel. For them, Israel is mostly a myth and a fantasy. For many reasons, they would prefer to live in the United States or Europe, which... more... - Sean McBride

Miriam: google(israel ~emigration ~immigration) popped up this article at the head of the search results: "Emigration from Israel exceeds immigration, report" http://stlouis.ujcfedweb.org/page... "Almost half of the country's young people were thinking of leaving the country, the report said. Their reasons included dissatisfaction with the government, the education system, a... more... - Sean McBride

Who will make Armageddon come are fanatics, armed with WMDs, who believe that an angry and vengeful God is on their side in an apocalyptic struggle against the rest of the world. - Sean McBride

Bogdan Costea -- you are voicing basic beliefs that are held by all modern Western democratic societies: enough with the ethnic and religious ranting! :) It couldn't be more simple. - Sean McBride

Ok, Sean, you do not want to be honest, I am telling all my friends Jews and conservatives to stay awy from you and your debate. You bait us to come your slender antisemitic thread, and they you sanitize and refactor the comments to fit your biased hidden agenda! Have a nice day! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- feel free to post any comments in this thread that are civil (an absolute requirement) and, preferably, factual and rational. With regard to your claim that God is on your side: most educated people do not make that claim, because they are familiar with the long history of savage and genocidal bloodshed conducted by various parties and sects, all of which claimed that God was on... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, we are not talking in the vacuum! All I asked what country do you live in and what is your profession. I did not ask you for your credit card number. I would like to know what is your interest in Israel and the Jews. simple questions! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- why would you try to tell other people with whom they should speak or debate? That is the kind of attitude one finds in totalitarian cults. With regard to my agenda, I couldn't be more direct and honest: I think fundamentalist thinking of all kinds represents a grave threat to the American interest, and to the well-being of the human race at large. I have lately been... more... - Sean McBride

Oh, and I have no problem telling people what I do. I have no hidden agendas. I am a Israeli citizen, a Jew, living in Japan. I am a businessman, who likes to travel and write. ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- I am an American citizen and have always lived in the United States. I do computer consulting. One of my interests is American foreign policy in general, and American Mideast policy in particular -- this is a very big topic on the American scene for all the obvious reasons. What is your nationality and where do you live? - Sean McBride

Thank you! As I wrote above, I am an Israeli citizen, a Jew, living in Japan. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- so this is where we differ: when you discuss Mideast politics, you are arguing from the standpoint of what you perceive to be your ethnic interests and the Israeli interest, which is perfectly legitimate. Most Americans view and analyze Mideast politics from the standpoint of the American interest, period. They do not live in an Israel-centric universe. (Christian Zionists and... more... - Sean McBride

Sean: Some advice: Don't feed the trolls. Chuckle at their statements, but don't give in to the temptation to reply. When you engage with them, they win. I should know, I've been a troll, myself. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris -- I take the point of view that anyone can possibly be redeemed -- even trolls, :) I always give them an opportunity to try to make sense and enter into a real conversation -- up to a point. - Sean McBride

Igor -- regarding Jewish issues: I confess to being a philo-Semite, and even, on occasion, a Jewish supremacist, in the sense that I believe that Jewish civilization has generated a more interesting conversation about the world than any other civilization I can think of. A majority of the minds that have most impressed and influenced me have been Jewish. But none of these luminaries... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, is calling me a Troll part of rational debate? If you want rational debate from me and other Jewish conservatives, treat us with respect, and do not use ad hominem against us when it is convenient to slender us on Robert Scoble, Alex Scoble or any other place where it fits your agenda. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- dropping "The Troll" from your user name might be a good public relations move. :) - Sean McBride

Sean if I wish to wear Magen David on my forehead, or a Jew in my name, that is my choice and my right? But when you see me with a sign Jew, are You going to call me Jew, Nick? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- for me, Jewishness is more about a set of elevated universal values than about simple ethnicity: love of learning and scholarship, the quest for truth and universal justice, charity and philanthropy, love of family, etc. Focusing too much on the ethnic nationalist side of the Jewish tradition draws attention away from the values which matter most, and which command the greatest... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, if you love Jews and Judaism so much, show some respect to the Jewish people, and try to get to know them. Not just their ideas, but what makes them who they are.Keep it up, we may convert you one of these days! hahhahhahahahhaha ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- I have already shown great respect and affection for many Jews, but on the basis of their individual achievements. I neither love nor hate entire ethnic groups -- that is an attitude that is walking perilously close to primitive racism. Ethnic groups are abstractions -- what matters is the individual behavior of members of those groups, and the ways in which those individuals... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I wish what you have just said were true, but you have attacked, marginalized, labeled and called irrational me and my Jewish friends all other FriendFeed. If you want rationality from me, Noah, Akiva, and other Jewish friendffeders, you should show us respect, or we will just feed you Sean haz a Cheezburger! ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- is it fair to say that you, Noah David Simon and Akiva Moskovitz are religious Zionists whose views do not reflect those of the large majority of Jews? We have honest intellectual disagreements. I have treated you all with civility and offered you the opportunity to express your views at whatever length you choose. I am under no obligation to automatically agree with whatever... more... - Sean McBride

I never said I am a Zionist, but you have labeled me as one. I do not know if Noah is religious or a Zionist, you need to ask him. I do not even know if Akiva is a Zionist and religious. You are jumping to conclusions and labeling us, and then you have the audacity to call us irrational for having certain believes or not! What is rational, something that you determine is so and approve?... more... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- religious Zionism is by definition the belief that Israel and Zionism (the ethnic nationalist movement founded by Theodor Herzl) is a sacred enterprise ordained by God and originating in biblical commandments. Leading Jewish and Israeli scholars have written hundreds of valuable books on the subject -- check them out on Amazon.com. There is nothing defamatory about the term --... more... - Sean McBride

One admires Einstein because he made revolutionary contributions to physics that were grounded in reality. He was a brilliant universalist, not a strident ethnic nationalist. - Sean McBride

Again with libels, who are you calling Strindent Ethnic Nationalist? Go read my blog, go read Noah's blog. Get to know something about us, besides your first perception of us because Scoble called us Jerks and blocked us. If you are intelligent man, do you need Scoble to guide your judgement? LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- if you can explain how your views differ from those of religious Zionists, do so. You have repeatedly invoked "God" as the driving force behind Israel, right? In the world of politics, the invocation of God to justify one's actions is usually the projection of the will to power by various interest groups. Anyone can play that game. - Sean McBride

Why are you asking me about God? Read the bible. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Thanks for making my case once again. - Sean McBride

case? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

The following is mainly of anecdotic value, but in a sense symptomatic of the "spirit" of any "Sean-imaginary" understanding the Israeli villains should be seeking with their Palestinian brethren: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News... (fetched from Israeli press, ergo obviously biased against, etc, etc.) - ianf ⌘

Sean, I feel that your circular rhetoric polemic agreement is just for the sake of arguing. You like to debate! LOL If not, what is the point of all of this? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor, your reasoning about Sean's reasoning being circular is also circular - endlessly debating is what we do here in lieu of throwing physical objects at one another. Of course it's circular! But so is objecting to it being merely for argument's sake… - ianf ⌘

lets play chess LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

ianf -- It's a pity that the PA didn't give Daniel Barenboim a deserved warm and generous welcome. The grievances on both sides are now so many and so bitter that one sees no light at the end of this tunnel. - Sean McBride

Pity had nothing to do with it. It's sheer lunacy mixed with inferiority complex in search of imaginary moral compensation. Let's call a spade a spade. - ianf ⌘

ianf -- the parties to this conflict are trapped in an infinite loop of tit-for-tat. Most of us would like to steer clear of that particular mess and of ethnic and religious wars in general. There is a better way to live. Members of all ethnic and religious groups are studying, working and socializing side-by-side at universities like Stanford, MIT and Caltech. It's the American Way. - Sean McBride

Really? Was that PA's tit, or its tat? (I get lost so easily). So what should be the Israeli(?), or merely the Barenboimist falange's "proportional response" to that, the one that'd find favor with the Middle-Eastern commentariat? - ianf ⌘

ianf -- read Benny Morris's first book, and you'll appreciate the historical context: book(Benny Morris; The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949; 1989; Cambridge University Press; http://www.amazon.com/dp...) Situations like this can be remembered for centuries, or even longer. - Sean McBride

Sean, re emigration exceeding immigration - that has been true probably since the State was established. However, more and more yordim (emigrants) are returning to Israel, and as I said above, more and more new immigrants are arriving. Emigration may still exceed immigration, but there is a growing feeling among world Jewry that they are not welcome in their countries (I wonder why). As... more... - Miriam

Sean, if you want to be taken seriously, and dazzle us now and then with –not only your obvious scholarship– but also more mundane abilities such as correctly editing Amazon's urls down to their universal minimalist form (which hasn't escaped my attention), then you should consider answering direct on-topical questions directly, rather than veer off onto tangential issues. Especially as... more... - ianf ⌘

ianf -- Israelis have many places to go, and are often going there: the United States and Europe are favorite destinations. Every argument that has been proposed to counter the (alleged) CIA scenario was used to "prove" that there was no conceivable way that white South Africa could collapse. (I am used to seeing outrageous and obviously impossible predictions come true -- I've made a few myself. There is a black art to this kind of thing.) - Sean McBride

ianf, you're my hero!! But what I don't understand is how you can continue this conversation with Sean. It feels like 'cow chewing cud' - Myrna

Ianf, these are the words that lifted you to 'my hero' status, not far from where it was already! "Sean, if you want to be taken seriously, and dazzle us now and then with –not only your obvious scholarship.." Sean, you should LISTEN to Ianf, not just reply back in gobblie-gook. - Myrna

Miriam -- Israel is now in sharp conflict with the entire world (and especially the Western democratic world) over several issues: the West strongly opposes Israeli settlements in the occupied territories; strongly opposes a military attack on Iran; strongly opposes Israel's racist foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman; and strongly supports the creation of a viable Palestinian state.... more... - Sean McBride

A basic rule of social behavior: if you are bogged down in angry confrontations about your ethnic issues with ethnic outsiders, you have already lost. There is no conceivable way that you can win. This is a fundamental feature of human nature that is so obvious that it is difficult to understand how anyone could miss it. - Sean McBride

Sean, you are so in your head/intellectualizing every second. Do you ever pause? I can't put my finger on it exactly but your words just don't make sense to me. Maybe Ianf can help on this one. It's like you're talking in 'bible semantics' where one has to translate and read between the lines to understand what Sean is really saying or feeling. What is YOUR point in all this. How do you feel about what you're saying? - Myrna

Tell you something, Sean… you're so Full-o-Solutions™ and Clear-o-Thinking® in Middle-Eastern matters, that it'd be a pity not to to listen to what you have to say. Maybe, just maybe, you are the Messiah, or at least some other Promethean Messenger personified who, if given half a chance, will make the Arabs, and the Israelis, sit down in proscribed Sean-approved manner, and chew on... more... - ianf ⌘

LOOOOOOOOOOOL! Now I can go meditate and smile, Ianf - Myrna

ianf -- I don't have any solutions to Israel's problems in the Mideast. I think this situation is going to end as a catastrophe, in the precisely the same way that I think that the newspaper industry has no future. This stuff is not difficult to figure out. Any student of history knows that ethnic nationalism ran out of steam and legitimacy midway through the 20th century. Which ethnic nationalist movements around the world do you support besides your own? - Sean McBride

Myrna -- no offense, but I haven't seen you post anything resembling a rational thought in this thread or any other on Friendfeed. I am curious: do you side with the American government or the Israeli government on the matter of settlements, Avigdor Lieberman, a Palestinian state, a war against Iran, etc.? In what sense are you actually a progressive? You are highly emotional about defending one of the most right-wing regimes on the planet. Why? - Sean McBride

[Cont'd] Of course, there's always the possibility that you're a false Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...) who's not even aware of being either that or, perhaps, a true one after all… "you meet all kinds in this line of work" [Mark Knopfler]. That would make your starting point for building a lasting peace in the Middle East harder, but not by much, considering the immensity of the project. - ianf ⌘

Sean, who says I'm defending anyone or anything? My gripe is the way you present your thoughts and feelings. It's effect is pushing me away. And about presenting a rational thought, maybe I'm not rational or maybe you just haven't followed my thinking or feeling. I have no 'blanket' black or white decisions or 'sidings'. Every single situation presents a different and new dimension of a... more... - Myrna

Myrna -- please: it's obvious that criticism of Israel pushes your emotional buttons. If those kinds of posts upset you, and if you are unable to express your disagreement with them in a rational way, you should simply stop reading them. These posts of yours in this thread are embarrassing. - Sean McBride

ianf -- you still haven't addressed the main point: how is ethnic nationalism, particularly ethnic nationalism based on religion, anything but an irritant in human affairs, and especially in the modern Western democratic context? Why do you think it is that so many Americans and Europeans have grown weary with Mideast tribal wars based on primitive myths and superstitions? Most... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I will address that [highly interesting btw] point when you respond straight the few simple questions you chose to bypass above; do we have a deal? - ianf ⌘

ianf, Miriam, Myrna and Igor: currently I am getting my news about Mideast politics from this bundle of feeds: http://friendfeed.com/mideast... What are your sources? Mideast politics is like every other topic under the sun, including cutting-edge tech topics and research fronts: the better your sources of information, the more likely you are to make accurate predictions. If you... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, you have indicated at least 10 different so-so-solutions for the Middle East, all of them stemming from an Israel-is-the-villain position. Indeed, there's no end to Israeli, if not Jewish, transgressions upon their peace-loving, ethnic-nationalism-pure fellow Palestinians [yes, Sean, there was a time still in human memory, time of the Ottoman Empire and then British Palestina... more... - ianf ⌘

You don't have to tell me Sean where you get your news "about Mideast politics" from, I already know that: Google searches and <http://friendfeed.com/mideast...>. That's some scholarship shining through right there. - ianf ⌘

ianf -- where do you get your news about Mideast politics from? What feeds do you follow? - Sean McBride

following this thread and McBride is much more in depth than that - sofarsoShawn

ianf -- "Israel-is-the-villain position" -- that's the paranoid and self-absorbed ethnocentric lens through which to view this controversy. I think ethnic nationalism and religious fundamentalism collectively and in general are the villain. Anyone who plays that game will inevitably get stuck in the same self-destructive patterns, over and over again. Why do you think it is that America... more... - Sean McBride

"Myrna -- please: it's obvious that criticism of Israel pushes your emotional buttons. If those kinds of posts upset you, and if you are unable to express your disagreement with them in a rational way, you should simply stop reading them. These posts of yours in this thread are embarrassing" Gee Shawn, it wasn't my intention to cause a defensive comment from you. Who are my posts embarrassing to and if its you please feel free to delete. Good luck to you! - Myrna

Myrna -- I think your intention has been to try to disrupt this thread with nonsense -- one sees this kind of behavior all the time in discussions about Mideast politics -- it's standard operating procedure. Many important issues have been raised in this thread -- you haven't addressed any of them. - Sean McBride

Myrna, you're much too kind, I can write this stuff with (still unpainted) toes of me left foot. You should have watched me some other times (and you will) when I was called names because my opponents could not respond coherently to rational arguments [once exposed, they tend to leave FF]. Sean uses some of the same tactics, but he's also driven by the fixed idea of the Middle East... more... - ianf ⌘

Some issues in play in this thread: American interests, American trans-ethnic values, American universalist values, apartheid white South Africa, Avigdor Lieberman, Christian Armageddonists, Christian Zionists, Confederacy, ethnic discrimination, ethnic nationalism, ethno-religious nationalism, European interests, false messianic movements, Iran War, Iranian oil, Iraq War, Israeli... more... - Sean McBride

Very worthy list, Sean. You forgot copycat Lego bricks (a huge problem worldwide); cow-originating CO2 and methane emissions, and a couple more. Throw them all into the mix, and what do you get? Why, another Nakba! - ianf ⌘

ianf -- some people have a talent for playing around with the Lego bricks and coming up with provably correct and reality-based conclusions and predictions on a fairly consistent basis. They can read the tea leaves, see the most strategic patterns in the noise. That's the black art of political, social and cultural forecasting. - Sean McBride

The first step in the black art: set aside all your biases, emotional attachments and earnest agendas, and look at the data with cold eyes. When the data goes against you, don't flinch. Eat the pain. Readjust your beliefs and plans. Or not -- and end up like Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, white South Africa, Iraq War enthusiasts, the newspaper industry, the American automotive industry, etc. - Sean McBride

@SB: one of the common elements i see running through prescient geo-politcal analysis is that the successful commentators 1) have an excellent knowledge of history; 2) have the ability to find links and similarities between seemingly disparate events/topics; 3) are able to get beyond the parochial aspects of a topic and expose the underlying assumptions and biases in typical 'framing'... more... - MikeAmundsen

Mike -- beautifully said. Successful prognosticators are able to absorb huge amounts of data from diverse sources, see all the subtle and unusual links among the data in creative ways, but still grasp the big picture and how all the vectors are interacting and are likely to interact in the future, while setting aside their own desires, wishes and biases. Unsuccessful prognosticators are... more... - Sean McBride

Mike -- I've mentioned Kevin Phillips' "American Theocracy" several times lately, which I recently listened to in audiobook format in my car. Phillips is a perfect example of a political analyst who is able to make successful prognostications on the basis of an objective analysis of reams of data, both contemporary and historical. [book(Kevin Phillips; American Theocracy: The Peril and... more... - Sean McBride

As Myrna said, after a while it gets tiring. May I therefore direct those of you who still care to this new summarizing item: http://ff.im/5mnZf - ianf ⌘

ianf -- that's an innovative use of Friendfeed to post research sources -- I like it. As for the topic becoming tiresome: that is precisely my point. Most Americans and Europeans would love to drop it (including most American and European Jews, I suspect). One possible scenario/solution on the horizon: an amicable divorce between the U.S./Europe and Israel. Those with an appetite for an endless loop of holy land mayhem will always be free to move there and to enjoy the apocalyptic festivities. - Sean McBride

@Sean I'm sorry, but comparing the current Israeli / Palestinian situation to the fall of South African apartheid, much less the rise of Nazi Germany is bizarrely absurd, even for you. The context is so far from similar that I find it rather shocking you'd even try to make the connection - all the more so given your continual attempts to point out everyone else's framing distortions,... more... - Forrest Cox

Forrest Cox -- browse through the above comments: the comparisons to apartheid white South Africa are coming from a former Israeli prime minister, a former American president and from many leading and influential political thinkers around the world. Google it -- you will be deluged. From my standpoint, you are in denial. How many non-Jews are welcome in Israeli settlements in the... more... - Sean McBride

Forrest: the discussion on Israeli/South African connections around the world is immense: http://www.google.com/#q=~isr... Try to do an objective analysis of the subject. - Sean McBride

@Sean - your quote re: the former Israeli PM is taken out of context, former American Presidents have proven about as astute in predicting the future as has the crazy Christian bible salesman yelling to the high heavens about the apocalypse down on the corner of Market and 8th, and "leading" and "influential" thinkers have been responsible for over and over again for calamity after... more... - Forrest Cox

@SB: yep, KPhillips has done some very interesting work. personally, i find his books a 'tough slog,' but that's for me to deal with<g>. i readily admit there are lots of things about Phillips' views i don't care for, but i have learned a great deal from him. his "Wealth and Democracy" was quite a read! - MikeAmundsen

@Sean - re: the links, thanks so much for proving my point about you. Put no thought at all into the inherent biases held by the authors you refer to (might they be apt to compare Israel to one of the most bigoted and oppressive regimes of the late-20th century, despite the obvious mechanistic differences between the two, because they, you know, HATE Israel?). Claim that their thinking,... more... - Forrest Cox

Me think Sean is just a Troll. LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Forrest Cox -- Ehud Olmert hates Israel? The only pro-Israel supporters I am aware of who use that kind of inciting language with regard to Israeli prime ministers are extremists on the far right. One of them assassinated Yitzhak Rabin. - Sean McBride

I file these Forrest Cox comments under "attacks on Americans and Europeans by pro-Israel activists and militants." This is the trendline to watch if you want to understand the future of Israel and its increasing self-ghettoization, especially in relation to the Western democratic world. I've stopped taking the attacks personally -- many American, European and Israeli political leaders have endured much worse from the Israeli right. - Sean McBride

Forrest Cox: check out this Haaretz report: article(Gideon Levy; Twilight Zone / 'Worse than apartheid'; Haaretz; July 7, 2008 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen...) Human rights activists with direct experience of apartheid white South Africa characterized conditions in Israel as being WORSE than in South Africa: "I thought they would feel right at home in the alleys of... more... - Sean McBride

More from Haaretz: "Equally harsh are the remarks of the editor-in-chief of the Sunday Times of South Africa, Mondli Makhanya, 38. "When you observe from afar you know that things are bad, but you do not know how bad. Nothing can prepare you for the evil we have seen here. In a certain sense, it is worse, worse, worse than everything we endured. The level of the apartheid, the racism... more... - Sean McBride

This is the Mideast political news that I am flagging on a daily basis as important: https://friendfeed.com/search... (These flexible Friendfeed URLs are cool.) - Sean McBride

Forrest: more from Haaretz: "Under apartheid, whites and blacks met in certain places. The Israelis and the Palestinians do not meet any longer at all. The separation is total. It seems to me that the Israelis would like the Palestinians to disappear. There was never anything like that in our case. The whites did not want the blacks to disappear. I saw the settlers in Silwan [in East Jerusalem] - people who want to expel other people from their place." - Sean McBride

Sean, go live in Israel. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Sean, your obsession with Israel is puzzling to me, as is the obsession of others like you who have the whole world's humanitarian transgressions to get up-in-arms about but choose to focus obsessively on Israel (how about China, Sudan, Iran, Egypt, etc.?). Why do Sudanese refugees risk their lives to get over the border from Egypt into Israel (many of whom have been shot and killed by... more... - Miriam

Miriam -- are you coming from an Orthodox Jewish perspective on Zionist and Israeli issues? Which authors and sources have most influenced your thinking on the subject? Which political party in Israel do you favor? Do you support Jewish settlements in the occupied territories? Do you support any ethnic nationalist movements other than your own? And can you provide some examples of Jews... more... - Sean McBride

Miriam: and: can you think of any good reasons for why the American government pays very close attention to Mideast politics, and to Israeli politics in particular? Why are the American media so "obsessed" with the topic? - Sean McBride

Sean, it's not only the US gov. that's obsessed with Israel. It's the world. There doesn't seem to be any logical reason for this. There are so many other places with way worse human rights records that the world basically ignores, while obsessing over Israel. If you have an answer I'd love to hear it. - Miriam

Miriam -- there is a simple answer to your question: 1. American taxpayers provide Israel with huge amounts of aid, and the United States is held responsible, often in ways that are destructive for Americans, for all of Israel's policies and actions. 2. The Israeli government has been pursuing a policy of territorial expansion that could easily trigger World War III/IV and reduce the entire world to chaos and ruin. - Sean McBride

I see my comment has been deleted from this thread. that is pathetic. the CIA has statistics that you don't have and the recent demographic analysis are that the demographic ratios are equal growth despite what you are attempting to promote. this goes in contradiction of your argument. if anything Obama has given Israel sympathy because his blatant equivalence of fault and abuse is so... more... - Noah David Simon

"Now (to change the metaphor), the truth has finally got its pants on, and Israel’s Foreign Ministry has released an exhaustive 164-page report which argues that Israel had a right to do what it did under international law, that what it did was not callous, disproportionate or criminal, and — of course — that much of what it was accused of it didn’t do .Those who need to, like Judge... more... - Noah David Simon

Does CriticalAnalyst = Noah David Simon? Noah -- you're missing the big picture, especially the big social/historical picture: messianic ethno-religious nationalist movements of all kinds (like apartheid white South Africa, for instance) are innately self-marginalizing, unstable and unviable in the modern democratic world. Militant ethnocentrism polarizes the entire world against... more... - Sean McBride

no prejudices in Israel. we just don't like hiding behind trees - Noah David Simon

Noah -- how does your comment address the point that messianic ethno-religious nationalist movements of all kinds are self-destructively out of step with modern Western democratic norms and values? How many Friendfeeders do you see bogged down in ethnocentric politics? - Sean McBride

Great conversation (although having blocked Igor, Noah, et als. long ago, it feels a little fragmented, likely for the better).. Miriam, I agree that some people have it out for Israel. But just because some are obsessed doesn't mean they're wrong. I also share Sean's assessment that Israel's actions are often counterproductive to the US’ long-term interests in the region and the world. Yet it seems to me that historically, here in the states, Israel can do no wrong. That needs to change. - Anthony Citrano

Anthony -- pro-Israel activists are responsible for placing Israel at the center of American politics -- they can't stop talking about Israel and Israel's problems, conflicts and enemies. Compare the frequency with which Israel has been mentioned in The New York Times in recent decades with, say, France, Ireland or Japan. At the moment, Israel is the only nation in the world... more... - Sean McBride

messianic thought is modern western thought. it is in no way out of step with goal oriented thinking. believing in an eventuality of a different set of rules is a positive thing in that it allows people to work towards a better world without thinking that they have to be violent till a radical change in physics occurs. the same can not be said of Islam. as for the NYTimes they are wrong... more... - Noah David Simon

Noah -- you're not logically tracking this argument: the issue is messianic *ethno-religious nationalism*. Modern Western democracies do not organize themselves around messianic ethnocentrism or religiosity. The core principle of Americanism is equality of ethnic groups and religions, with an emphasis on individual character, talent and achievement, not on ethnicity or religious affiliation. Modern Western democracies prize individualism and meritocracy. - Sean McBride

Look around you, Noah: how many Friendfeeders are bogged down in ethnic politics, and in ugly confrontations about their ethnic issues? Most Americans discarded this style of politics a long time ago for reasons of enlightened social behavior and simple self-interest. - Sean McBride

you are just full of labels. everyone has a goal and if they don't they are in trouble. you are trying to find a way to other something, but the thing you fear is "Western" thought in itself. Judaism is the root of it all. there were some "theories" that were developed by pagans, but they were never applicable till they were adapted into monotheistic structures. those theories that did... more... - Noah David Simon

Thank G-d we have our prophecies to guide us and G-d's protection to keep Israel strong while the rest of the world falls apart. Get America and the U.K. out of Israel so we can stand strong without any fear of our enemies and be the light unto the nations that we were chosen to be. - David C. Cooper

one facet of Judaic thought is condescended by another. we have no problem with this. we are both a race and a philosophy. every rule leveraged by another wise idea. sound familiar? it is what America is made of. even the essence of our heredity is condescended by the very royal family that is the legend that you hate so much. yes the lineage of the messiah. Soloman's children were not... more... - Noah David Simon

Noah -- all ethno-religious nationalist movements justify their anti-democratic (and often racist) beliefs and behavior with cult mythologies and mysticism. But modern Western democracies are no longer interested in playing that game. The United States, for instance, does not define itself as an Anglo-Christian state or Germany as an Germanic-Christian state (in the ethnic and religious... more... - Sean McBride

you just assumed I claimed ethnicity when I said the opposite. since your peanut gallery is blocking me they are going to assume you repeated what I said. this is unethical. tautological and your audience does not even see my words they only see your accusation which just ignored everything I just said and made an accusation that was the exact opposite. conversation is over. the other... more... - Noah David Simon

Noah -- are you claiming that Zionism isn't an ethnic nationalist movement? No serious historian (including no serious Jewish historian) will agree with you -- Zionism is a classical ethnic nationalist movement. And Zionism is not remotely synonymous with Judaism -- most of the founders of Zionism and Israel were secular humanists, atheists, agnostics or Marxists. As for your repeated... more... - Sean McBride

From an excellent Wikipedia entry on ethnic nationalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... "Ethnic nationalism is a form of nationalism wherein the "nation" is defined in terms of ethnicity. Whatever specific ethnicity is involved, ethnic nationalism always includes some element of descent from previous generations. Furthermore, the central theme of ethnic nationalists is... more... - Sean McBride

Ethnic nationalism vs. civic nationalism (from Wikipedia): "In scholarly literature, ethnic nationalism is usually contrasted with civic nationalism. Ethnic nationalism bases membership of the nation on descent or heredity—often articulated in terms of common blood or kinship—rather than on political membership. Hence, nation-states with strong traditions of ethnic nationalism tend to... more... - Sean McBride

More from Wikipedia: "Ethnic nationalism has sustained criticism because of its use by extremists to advocate racist agendas and genocide, such as the case of Nazi Germany and its extermination of millions of Jews and other ethnic and cultural groups during the Holocaust. More recent acts of violence that used ethnic nationalism as a justification include ethnic cleansing such as the... more... - Sean McBride

Let me try to start unraveling some of Noah's statements: NOAH: "one facet of Judaic thought is condescended by another. we have no problem with this. we are both a race and a philosophy. every rule leveraged by another wise idea. sound familiar? it is what America is made of. even the essence of our heredity is condescended by the very royal family that is the legend that you hate so... more... - Sean McBride

he probably means contradicted - John Hardy

Sean McBride doesn't engage you in dialog. a Jewish and yes Zionist philosophy (same thing) can not be ethnically based if others can join it. example is that my son is not a Jew by the government of Israel. he can choose to become one if he wants when he is ready. @IgorTheTroll2 is a #Mossad operative. Watch out @Hamas - Noah David Simon

Noah -- do Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Asians, Arabs, etc. enjoy equal status, rights, privileges, wealth and power with Jews in Israel? If America defined itself as a Christian state which offered special treatment and privileges for Christians and which discriminated against non-Christians, it wouldn't be a modern Western democracy. Imagine if the United States were now building Anglo-Christian settlements in Canada or Mexico by force and against the will of Canadians and Mexicans. - Sean McBride

Noah -- regarding your repeated invocations of Mossad in a threatening way: how many Friendfeeders, and how many Americans, make violent threats against their ethnic or religious enemies on a regular basis? Messianic ethno-religious nationalism (and much of the tradition of Abrahamic fundamentalism in general) is closely associated with extreme aggression, violence and terrorism. Modern... more... - Sean McBride

Mossad is a keyword that jew haters use online. we co opted it for search reasons. Igor believes you search the word regularly. I'm the one who has to hide behind a tree in the name of your toleration (as Islam states). it is not ethnic related to fear a philosophy that says it wants to kill you - Noah David Simon

Noah, what are you afraid of? If you live in fear, you are better to be dead! If we die in the battle for Israel, then we die because we have not loved Israel enough. Israel, is Life it is what God gave tus so we do not forget Adonay. Live your life and do not fear, for when it is time, God will be near. Baruch Hashem, Amein - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Kahanists have been using the term "Mossad" to issue threats against Americans and Europeans, not a smart move in a climate in which concerns about Mideast terrorism are at an all-time high and in which the life of the current American president, Barack Obama, is being threatened on a daily basis. Kahanist groups are officially designated as terrorist groups by the American government,... more... - Sean McBride

Noah: notice to whom David Cooper directs his hostility: it's not Hamas; it's America and the UK: "Thank G-d we have our prophecies to guide us and G-d's protection to keep Israel strong while the rest of the world falls apart. Get America and the U.K. out of Israel so we can stand strong without any fear of our enemies and be the light unto the nations that we were chosen to be." By... more... - Sean McBride

Apropos the CIA forecast, just published today: "Livni: Israelis desperate to leave country" http://www.ynetnews.com/article... "Opposition chairman says hundreds of thousands of Israelis searching or ways to move abroad in light of grim political situation in country, government's lack of vision" ... ""I see the despair of many Israelis. Hundreds of thousands see... more... - Sean McBride

Sean McBride labeling people as Kahanists is libel and defamation! If you have proof, then show it. If you do not, do not harass people and organization.by hiding behind Web anonymity and terrorizing people! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Which organization are you referring to? - Sean McBride

Igor just turned down five opportunities to explain which organization was unfairly accused of being a Kahanist group. Instead, he tried to change the subject by talking about the IRA (Irish nationalism is a non-existent topic on Friendfeed and on the Internet in general). The question is still on the table for Igor (or Noah, ianf or David Cooper): which organization was unfairly accused of being a Kahanist group? - Sean McBride

Sean, see you on Wikipedia! Try not to give yourself too many Anti-Semitic awards! ADL will come looking for you! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- you just issued another threat, among dozens of such documented threats, and you still didn't mention which organization you think was unfairly accused of Kahanism. To which organization were you referring? - Sean McBride

Threats? What threats? I am just a Troll surfing on friendfeed! You the one libeling and and accusing people and organizations! I hope ADL looking into your web activities. I am sure American government does not fancy them either! And if you have a question about anyone, talk to them. Why you asking me? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- which organization was libeled? You still haven't mentioned it. I didn't mention any organization. To which organization are you referring? Your repeated invocations of Mossad certainly qualify as threats in the eyes of most objective observers -- whom do you think you are kidding? - Sean McBride

Traits, features and policies often associated with Kahanism: anti-Arab bigotry, anti-black bigotry, anti-Christian bigotry, anti-European bigotry, anti-Muslim bigotry, assassinations, bombings, charges of anti-Semitism, deportation ("transfer") of Palestinians, Greater Israel, group violence, illegal spying and espionage, malicious hacking, personal attacks, pro-Israel militancy,... more... - Sean McBride

Wow & whoa! - Roney Smith

Here is the Wikipedia entry on Kahanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Sean McBride

Right Sean McBride, Thanks for reverting my Gilad Shalit Tweet4Shalit edit on Wikipedia. You are such a Human Rights activist for Islamic Terrorist organization Hamas! You must be very proud of yourself! Stick some more Keywords into your semantic search! You going to delete this also Sean Hoyland? Go complain to a Wikipedia admin! LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Saw who this was from and had to laugh. Why don't you throw in a Sept. 11 conspiracy too! - Spencer

Why not Armageddon as well? The Jews want to blow up the WORLD! LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor: I know nothing about your Wikipedia entry on Gilad Shalit, have never heard of Sean Hoyland, detest Muslim fundamentalism (and all forms of religious fundamentalism) and find many of your and Noah's posts to be incoherent and incomprehensible. You still haven't mentioned which organization you think was falsely accused as Kahanist: which is it? - Sean McBride

Spencer -- didn't you buy into all the bogus conspiracy theories foisted by neoconservatives on naive Bush/Cheney supporters (for instance, the claim that Saddam was behind 9/11 and that al-Qaeda was behind the 9/11 anthrax attacks)? Or was that a different Spencer? - Sean McBride

Note on how I moderate comments on my posts: substantive comments are welcome from everyone, and especially from those with views that oppose my own. Non-substantive or abusive comments I will often delete, because they derail substantive discussion. The name of the game here is to improve mutual understanding of issues. - Sean McBride

Sean, WTF why did you bring MY name into this? - David C. Cooper

Oh, I see it now. So, Sean you agree with American financial support of Muslim terrorist organizations Fatah and Hamas? - David C. Cooper

David Cooper -- I strongly oppose American financial or political support for religious fundamentalist groups of all kinds, including Muslim fundamentalist groups. Your assumption is wrong. You give the impression in one of your comments above that you view the United States and Britain as your enemies and as the enemies of Israel. Care to clarify? Here is your statement: "Thank G-d we... more... - Sean McBride

Certainly, I think the financial support of Israel and her enemies by other countries has been the biggest source of instability for that region. The entire middle east would find it's own stability if other nations would stop sending money to Israel and her enemies. BTW, what happened to my original post? I can't find it. - David C. Cooper

Incidentally, if you don't think Israel should be a Jewish state, why is it okay for 22 nations in that same region to only allow Muslim citizens? All of those countries are much larger than Israel yet you don't seem to worry or care that they discriminate against non-Muslims not only as citizens but even as visitors. - David C. Cooper

Furthermore, why is it okay for those 22 nations to sponsor the pseudo nation of "palestine" as a proxy in their fight against the return of the relatively tiny Israelite homeland to Her people? - David C. Cooper

David -- to find your original post open http://friendfeed.com/mideast... and then do a full text search on the page for "G-d" -- it's still there. - Sean McBride

David -- few people object to Israel being a Jewish state (I don't), but they expect Israel to be a Jewish state in the same way that France is a French state -- as a state of all its citizens, from all ethnic and religious backgrounds, as a modern Western democratic state. If Israel seeks to become a Jewish state in a narrow ethnic and religious sense, it will suffer the same fate as... more... - Sean McBride

David -- actually, the idea of the United States and Europe disengaging completely from both sides in the Israeli/Arab-Muslim conflict has a certain appeal. - Sean McBride

David -- does one deduce correctly from your original statement the following? 1. Religion and politics are seamlessly enwoven for you. 2. God is on the side of Israel vs. the nations and the rest of the world (including the United States and UK). 3. Israelis are the chosen people and a light unto the nations. 4. Israel is in great shape, thanks to God, but the rest of the world is falling apart. 5. You have many ethnic and religious enemies. - Sean McBride

Sean, so where is the outcry against the narrow ethnic and religious governments of the 22 Muslim nations that surround and make war against the Israelite nation and the western non-Muslim world? If western democratic society is such a champion of freedom and liberty why would they focus on Israel, where people of all ethnicities and religions are welcome while they ignore the rest of the middle east where only Muslims are allowed to tread? - David C. Cooper

David -- Israel is asking Americans and Europeans to make enormous sacrifices for Israelis on the supposed moral grounds that Israel is a modern Western democratic state and a member in good standing in the Western democratic community. If in fact Israel morphs into a Jewish version of apartheid white South Africa, it is going to be impossible to justify that support. Israel will go its... more... - Sean McBride

1. For the children of Israel G-d gave us the form of government under which we are to thrive, any other form is a poor substitute. 2. G-d is on the side of his entire creation which is why he gave his Torah to the children of Israel. The fact that only the children of Israel were willing and able to accept his word at Mount Sinai does not change His love for the people of all nations.... more... - David C. Cooper

What "sacrifices" does Israel ask of any other nation? It seems the other nations are asking Israel to make all of the sacrifices. Why should Jews not be allowed to build on their own land? Why should Israel be told that they must allow their enemies to settle in Israel but not allow a Jew to build a tree house? Realpolitik does not justify the hypocrisy. - David C. Cooper

the state with the most money in U.S. aid since 1993 is Palestine. that argument of Israel getting the most funding is false. Egypt gets similar numbers to Israel. further the funding of Israel if compared to the numbers involved in US military expenses would be around a penny to a dollar. the US military gets more back with support to Israel then from their own military. the moment... more... - Noah David Simon

BS - Stephan Romeo

ahem... and when labor said something similar in the 90s when Netanyahu's government had their first run, the statistics of the Jewish population ratio to Muslims improved. not to mention that Bibi was a lot more conservative then. I'm not very worried about Livni's opinions. Livni wanted badly to be a proxy to Jewish ethnic cleansing. ghetto Jew mentality. JudenRatts are all over the place... right Myrna? - Noah David Simon

David -- I respect your right to hold your religious beliefs, but others are under no obligation to share those beliefs. They may even find them to be irritating and unpalatable, in the same way you no doubt find many Christian and Muslim beliefs to be irritating and unpalatable (have you accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior yet? :)). To make matters worse, you are bundling... more... - Sean McBride

Noah -- the abusive and demonizing language that you and many others are using against Livni -- "Jewish ethnic cleansing, ghetto Jew mentality, JudenRatts" -- is one of several reasons why many political analysts think that Israel's political future is problematic. You can't construct a viable and stable civil society on this kind of fanaticism. And it is disturbing and scary to see... more... - Sean McBride

Most Friendfeed users, and most Americans, are not aggressive, abrasive, abusive and demanding about their ethnic and religious interests. If they were, American society would be reduced to violent chaos, to a state of permanent civil war and internecine savagery -- much like parts of the Mideast. - Sean McBride

Sean, if that's true then why is Israel, where all people of all religions and ethnicities are welcomed to worship in the Holy Land, demonized while all of the neighboring muslim apartheid states are either ignored or excused for their "ethno-religious" nationalism? - David C. Cooper

Sean, your claim that "most" Americans are not aggressive, abrasive, abusive and demanding is laughable! All over the world Americans are accused of exactly that kind of behavior especially when it comes to their ethnic and religious interests. There is a special interest group active in American politics for every religious and ethnic concern imaginable. - David C. Cooper

I have to agree though, that the continued existence of Israel defies all logic. Thank G-d, considering the number of enemies that surround her it is a miracle that she survives to this day. - David C. Cooper

David -- an example: how many op-ed articles have been published by Irish nationalists in The New York Times or The Washington Post during the last decade? How many by Jewish nationalists and pro-Israel activists? This is countable in a precise way with standard content analysis, but I am guessing that the ratio must be at least 100 to 1 in terms of Jewish vs. Irish nationalists. What... more... - Sean McBride

What scares me is how far anti-Semites have come in the last 100 years. They're smart enough now to realize out and out hatred and bigotry will shut them down quickly, so they've shifted over to "discussions" in the guise of rational discourse. When in fact the message remains the same: Jews = bad. - Noah Belson

Sean, what does the ratio of Israel based op-ed pieces in the NYTimes compared to Ireland based op-ed pieces have to do with this discussion? Are you surprised that there is more discussion about the Holy Land than there is about Ireland? Can't you answer my first question? - David C. Cooper

Noah Belson -- the entire world (and the American government especially) strongly opposes Israeli settlements, Israeli agitation to start a war with Iran, and the presence of a flagrant racist, Avigdor Lieberman, at the highest levels of the Israeli government. Are you basically accusing the entire world of being antisemitic because of its opposition to Likud policies and religious... more... - Sean McBride

David -- the fact that pro-Israel activists and militants are highly conspicous in contemporary American culture, and are pushing a narrow ethno-religious nationalist agenda in ways that are often extremely abusive towards their fellow Americans (see, for instance, Pamela Geller's posts on Barack Obama), couldn't be more relevant to this discussion: Israel and the Israel lobby are... more... - Sean McBride

Noah David Simon just called Robert Scoble a "rat" -- comment deleted. - Sean McBride

David: the issue is not whether all ethnicities and religions are permitted to worship in "the Holy Land" (what a misnomer). The issue is whether all ethnicities and religions in Israel are treated with equality in their ability to acquire wealth, power and influence in Israel, and whether their religions enjoy equal status under a civic state (not an ethnic nationalist state with strong theocratic trappings). - Sean McBride

Instead of addressing the point that every nation in the world (including the American government) opposes the current Israeli government and Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, Noah Belson invoked the Nazi smear, with no substantive content. (Comment deleted. Try again.) - Sean McBride

Sean, if you can speak for the entire world, I think I can make logical conclusions based on your previous comments. This isn't about Israel, this is about angry, hateful people seeing their moment and trying to use Israel to push the door open a little bit wider. This sort of thing brings bigots out of their hidey holes and gives them just a little more courage, which for my money is a very dangerous thing. - Noah Belson

Noah -- name a single government in the world which supports Jewish settlements in the occupied territories. The American government and all European governments strongly oppose those settlements, and Israel is in fact on a collision course with the entire world. Are you accusing everyone who opposes the settlements (including a majority of American Jews) of being antisemites? Are you... more... - Sean McBride

Reminder: the comments in my feed should be civil, polite, well-informed, sensible and fact-based. Comments with vague personal attacks and verbal abuse will be deleted. Stay on point and be substantive. Others are free to edit their feeds any way that suits them. As usual, I am always intensely interested in strong opposing arguments that are well-grounded in reality. - Sean McBride

Sean, you said: "The issue is whether all ethnicities and religions in Israel are treated with equality in their ability to acquire wealth, power and influence in Israel" Then, why is this not the issue regarding the enemies of the West who surround Israel? The double standard is hypocritical. - David C. Cooper

David -- why should the West go out of its way to get involved in self-destructive and trillion-dollar wars in defense of political ideologies and systems that are in direct contradiction to its most hallowed values? Did the West lift a finger to defend white South Africa? Why do you think it is that both the Bush and Obama administrations have strongly opposed a military attack on... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I've already suggested that the west should divest itself from financially supporting either side in this argument. I don't agree that Israel is a contradiction to western values. On the contrary, western values are a direct result of the values of the children of Israel. - David C. Cooper

David: core modern Western democratic values: separation of church and state; equal treatment of and status for all ethnicities and religious groups. Ethnic nationalist and theocratic states are radically incompatible with those values, and are out of step with the modern world. That is why the West abandoned white South Africa and let it sink like a stone. (This is why I also strongly... more... - Sean McBride

David -- I agree with you that Jewish values have played an enormously important role in creating the modern Western democratic world. But the Jewish tradition has evolved markedly over millennia -- it is not static. Most Jews are not biblical literalists, and many brilliant Jews have been in the vanguard in creating the modern world and its best institutions. (The ability of Jewish civilization and the Jewish tradition to evolve, adapt and remake itself is probably its greatest strength.) - Sean McBride

That last part must keep you up at night, huh Sean. Incidentally, you better delete my comments and block me now- something tells me you're not gonna like me. :) - Noah Belson

hmm - ALPER DURUKAN

Noah Belson -- I may like you if you manage to say something fresh and original about the dozens of ideas and facts that appear in the preceding comments in this thread, and show a Jewish ability to wrestle with difficult issues based on an inquiring open mind and a scholarly attention to details. So far I haven't seen much of that. If I want a goyishe kop, I'll torture myself with Rush... more... - Sean McBride

"UN rights chief slams Israel over Gaza violations" http://www.reuters.com/article... "Pillay said rights violations included arbitrary detention, torture and ill-treatment, extrajudicial execution, forced eviction and home demolition, settlement expansion and related violence and restrictions on freedom of movement and expression. "While these violations are of... more... - Sean McBride

White South Africa took an arrogant, dismissive and defiant attitude towards critiques of its behavior from the international community, and the rest, as they say, is history. They lost. As a rule, it is not in one's self-interest to get on the wrong side of the overwhelming mass of world opinion. Not smart. - Sean McBride

More from the Pillay report: "Pillay's recommendations included the following: -- Allegations of violations of humanitarian law and human rights during the Gaza war should be investigated by independent bodies, and victims should have the right to reparations. -- Israel should tackle impunity for violations, and curb its use of the military justice system, which does not meet... more... - Sean McBride

Noah Belson just departed in an inky cloud of emotional personal attacks (comment deleted), while failing to address a single substantive issue in this thread. Which raises an important point: if pro-Israel activists are unable to defend their views in a rational way in public forums around the world, what future does Israel have? The CIA report may be sage and prophetic indeed.... more... - Sean McBride

Two more abusive and content-free comments deleted, one by Noah Belson and one by Igor. They can't get on point or address substance. If they manage to make rational policy points that are free of personal attacks or verbal abuse, I'll let the comments stand and answer them. But their track record isn't promising. (This isn't a free speech issue, by the way. They are free to say... more... - Sean McBride

So this is indeed a free speech issue, then. Free speech isn't only about being free regarding the substance of your speech: who makes the call about what is form and what is substance? By making that call, you necessarily act as a censor, you see? Still, there's nothing wrong with admitting you will limit one's free speech to a certain form or mode of expression. - Rubin Sfadj

Rubin -- every time we choose a publication to read, we are making selections based on the editorial judgment and reputation of the publisher. Feeds are basically publications. The New York Times is not Fox News and Fox News is not the New York Times. They exercise their right of free speech to control their respective information streams. I have noticed through the years that personal... more... - Sean McBride

This thread is still wide open to anyone who wants to make civil and sensible comments in opposition to the speculation that Israel is on a self-destructive path that closely resembles that of apartheid white South Africa. There are many items in the thread that still haven't been addressed or rebutted. This is a big and complex subject - Sean McBride

"On Agha and Malley" (Stephen M. Walt) http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts... "The most significant lines in the entire essay were the last two, where they write "the heart of the matter is not necessarily how to define a state of Palestine. It is, in a sense it always has been, how to define the state of Israel." Again, they didn't explain what they meant by... more... - Sean McBride

Walt continued: "Or will Israel continue to pursue the dream of Greater Israel, increasingly fueled by ethno-religious claims and the growing political power of religious extremists? If so, then it will become an apartheid state and will eventually face a Palestinian struggle for democratic rights. Again: what sort of state will it become? Needless to say, these different visions will... more... - Sean McBride

Geoffrey Wheatcroft: "If there is a ‘tragedy of Zionism’ it is surely this. Without wanting to or even realising what was happening, the Jewish state has found itself on the wrong side of a much greater divide than the mere dispute between Jew and Arab. The reason for the global obsession with the Holy Land is that it has become a crucible, an epitome, a distilled version of a ‘clash of... more... - Sean McBride

http://mediaanalysiscritical.b... here are photographs of Jews in 1948 Judea that were thrown out of their homes when they had been there for millenniums. Are these the "occupiers" you speak of? the same "occupiers" of Germany just a few years before. the people kicking them out of Judea were aligned with those performing Christal... more... - Noah David Simon

McBride - do you not know the meaning of "Apartheid"? - JIDF

Noah -- are you arguing, then, that Israel should continue to build Jewish settlements in the occupied territories over the adamant opposition of every government in the world, including the American government? And should those settlements be for Jews only, not for members of all ethnic and religious backgrounds, including Christians, Muslims, Arabs, Buddhists, Chinese, etc? How do you see this narrative unfolding? - Sean McBride

OMG you must break the all time record for the longest running, in time span, for your threads JULY 15!!!!!!, >> *whispers* (maybe use disable comments?) - sofarsoShawn

Noah: regarding messianism: let me be clear that my critique of messianism is directed at all of its manifestations, in all cultures from all ethnic groups and religions, and including its secular expressions (Marxism, for instance, was a messianic movement.) Messianism, because it is based on onanistic fantasies, self-hypnosis, cultism and emotional hysteria, almost always leads to... more... - Sean McBride

McBride - Are you aware that the Fatah Constitution and Hamas Charter call for the complete destruction of Israel? That said, Israel SHOULD continue to expand, so as to deter their enemies' determination to destroy them. - JIDF

sofarsoShawn -- some topics generate a great deal of conversation because they have major strategic implications, even world historical implications -- this is one of those topics. The death of the newspaper industry and the American auto industry are others. The health care debate is another. I leave the comments open because I am curious to see if any new interesting ideas emerge. (By... more... - Sean McBride

JIDF -- most Americans, and all modern secular democracies, have placed their chips on a core idea: all ethnic and religious groups can live together in productive harmony, with equal rights and opportunities. If you want to go down the messianic ethno-religious nationalist path, be my guest -- but you will have to live with the consequences. A large majority of Jews would probably... more... - Sean McBride

JIDF: regarding apartheid: article(Gideon Levy; Twilight Zone / 'Worse than apartheid'; Haaretz; July 7, 2008 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen...) Human rights activists with direct experience of apartheid white South Africa characterized conditions in Israel as being WORSE than in South Africa: "I thought they would feel right at home in the alleys of Balata refugee camp,... more... - Sean McBride

Your first response to me makes no sense. Your second source relies upon an extreme leftist source, looking to push a political agenda. Try Myths vs. FACTS: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource... - JIDF

like hell it will. "CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years" read all about it. - nivcalderon

sofarsoShawn got me thinking: rank issues by strategic importance (by their impact on the world at large, on world history and on human civilization). Are there objective and scientific ways to achieve these rankings? Algorithms? Software tools? In any case, the world historical forces swirling around the vortex of Israel and the Mideast in general are immense. That region could be the graveyard of the human race. - Sean McBride

JIDF -- can you answer the specific charges in the Haaretz article in a specific way? They are coming from South African leaders who were the victims of apartheid -- they know the subject of apartheid up close and personal, much more intimately than we do. They are claiming that conditions in Israel are worse than in apartheid white South Africa. - Sean McBride

JIDF -- my first response to you makes a great deal of sense -- it is written in clear English prose. I pointed out to you that modern Western democracies prize ethnic and religious equality and cooperation, and that a large majority of Jews share those values. Messianic ethno-religious nationalist states are in radical conflict with the contemporary world. - Sean McBride

People already did, in the talkback section of the article. You're citing an anti-Israel activist intent on smearing the Jewish state. Lots of people do that. Your first response made no sense within the context of my comment, as I wasn't talking about any of that. Apparently you like to read your own words. That said, what's your point in all this? Are you looking forward to the... more... - JIDF

JIDF -- one point at a time: how do you rebut, in your own words and in a specific way, the charges made by South Africans, other than calling them "leftists"? Leftists opposed the apartheid white South African regime, they predicted its collapse, and they were right. The flow of world history is not on the side of ethnic nationalists and racists. Ehud Olmert, the former Israeli prime... more... - Sean McBride

Until you answer MY questions, I won't bother answering your tangents. - JIDF

Are you or are you not for the destruction of Israel? - JIDF

JIDF -- you don't seem to understand Friendfeed culture -- you play by the rules of the owner of the thread, which, in this case, is yours truly. But I will humor you for one instance: obviously I do not support the destruction of Israel. But I do support the reform of Israeli politics that will bring it into full alignment with modern Western democratic values and spare it the... more... - Sean McBride

Now your turn: do you support full equality for all ethnic and religious groups in Israel, both in law and in practice, and the separation of synagogue and state? And aren't "Jewish settlements" *by definition* a discriminatory enterprise when subsidized and endorsed by the state? Does the American government subsidize and endorse Anglo-Christian settlements? - Sean McBride

you claim that Israel is not "in full alignment' with Western democratic values. Please explain why. And I think it's vain of you to suggest that your POV is shared by every govt. on the planet. Just b/c you're reading some book on Messianic ideology, it does not mean everyone who disagrees with you is drawn into it. Israel is the Jewish State and I support it as such. I do not support... more... - JIDF

JIDF -- I answered your question directly and fully. Now you answer mine: do you support full equality for all ethnic and religious groups in Israel, both in law and in fact? That criterion is the core definition for modern Western democracies -- they are trans-ethnic, trans-religious and universalist in outlook, values and practice. - Sean McBride

JIDF: I just quickly scanned your recent Friendfeed feed and immediately noticed this: "JIDF: certainly there's a Jewess out there w/ an appreciation of both radiohead & rav kahane for whom i could dedicate the beatles' "for you blue"" Are you a supporter of Meir Kahane? Kahanist groups are officially designated as terrorist groups by the American government. Also: "Jewess"? Questionable choice of words, at best. - Sean McBride

JIDF -- your thoughts, like those of Igor and Noah David Simon, are a great confused jumble -- and that is consistent with messianic psychology and the messianic mindset, which is much more focused on concocting elaborate rationalizations than in conducting honest intellectual investigations. With regard to the point of view of nations all around the world towards Israeli settlements: I... more... - Sean McBride

You bore me with your "messianic" allegations and your tone is condescending. Moving along.. - JIDF

JIDF -- you want to end the discussion already? I thought we were just beginning. What elements of Meir Kahane's thinking have inspired your enthusiasm? Kahane helped trigger the Baruch Goldstein massacre and Yigal Amir's assassination of Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin. The Israeli government itself considers Kahanism and Kahanists to be verboten -- beyond the pale -- as does the American government. - Sean McBride

Kahane noticed Jews were being attacked in the streets of NYC and created the JDL to do something about it. I notice that Jews (and Israel) are being attacked online, and I did something about it. - JIDF

@sean it's amazing how a debate can suddenly implode and have the participents retract from conversation the moment a person no longer has anything to hide behind. Personally, I don't get how attacks by opposing forces are seen as unwarrented hate while state sponsored subjigation, abuse and theft of said population is perfectly fine. Is there not a critical thought at play asking a... more... - alphaxion

If you view Hamas/Fatah as "freedom fighters" your moral compass is off. - JIDF

This is, without a doubt, bullshit. First of all, in terms of your comparison to Apartheid, I'd direct you to here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource... | Second, this sort of thing is based on a disconnect for the actual players involved. If you ever spent time in any Jewish community in America, there is huge support for Israel within them. Not everyone may agree with all the actions of Israel, but the support for Israel's existence within the US is huge. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Oh, and I do support full equality for all ethnic and religious groups in Israel, both in law and in fact, providing they can pledge an oath of allegiance to the State of Israel. If they do anything to undermine the security of Israel, or if show any support for its destruction whatsoever, all bets are off. - JIDF

If you have ever been to Israel, you'd see that the people there, whatever you may think of their politics, ideals, religion, whatever, are perhaps the most determined people on the planet. The Israelis have put their lives on the line /every day/ to make a place for themselves in Israel. They haven't stopped before now and they won't stop in the future. Even if you don't like Israel, if you went there, and saw for yourself, you'd realize that no one there will simply give up. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I took Sean up on his advice to use this great thing called "Google" (who knew?) and it's very interesting to see where this "news" (ie. propaganda) comes from and who is pushing it: http://www.google.com/search... - JIDF

@jidf did you not read what I said, let me quote it "Just remember, because of the actions of the IDF, the likes of Hamas are seen as freedom fighters to those who can no longer see that BOTH the israeli state AND the palestinian forces are fundamental cocks that don't care how many people suffer in their ceaseless bickering." I did not say this was my view, as you can pretty much get... more... - alphaxion

@alphaxion - you blame the IDF for Islamic terrorism. What is wrong with you? - JIDF

@aram support for its existence and reaction to its policies and actions are two different things. You can still support the right for israel to exist whilst criticising the actions of its government. The kinda comment you made sounds like the drivel you get from those who think to speak out against your government is to wish for it to be destroyed. No, many of us just want them to stop murdering and stealing land and resources from the palestinians. - alphaxion

JIDF -- questions about the viability of Israel have been prominently raised by two Israeli political leaders, Ehud Olmert and Tzipi Livni, and recently by a major American Jewish author, Rich Cohen. The whole world is wondering how any nation which resembles apartheid white South Africa can survive in the midst of overwhelming global opposition to its core beliefs and policies. - Sean McBride

@alphaxion that was a complete misread of what I said. I didn't say that I want to kill people or quash other opinions. I just said that, as a whole, on average, Israelis are a very determined people and they are not, as a whole, going to leave. The fact that you misread totalitarianism into the word determination scares the shit out of me. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

@jidf I blame BOTH for the endless cycle of hate and suffering. IDF bulldozes a settlement. Palestinians are killed and many are twisted by grief and suffering. Palestinians lash out and kill a number of Israelis. Those same Israelis are then twisted by their grief, IDF lashes back. Ad nausium. And by the way, I know people that live in Israel. The stories I hear from them (and this... more... - alphaxion

Fair warning to JIDF and NDS: if you want to post here, stay on substantive points and be civil. - Sean McBride

@aram.. sorry, I didn't notice the bit at the end that said "Not everyone may agree with all the actions of Israel, but the support for Israel's existence within the US is huge." which is also the point I said in my comment to you. Sorry if what I said there came off wrong. - alphaxion

@alphaxion It happens, thanks. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

JIDF -- are you aware that the JDL and all Kahanist groups are officially designated as terrorist groups by the American government? Are you familiar with the histories of Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel? And even the Israeli government classified Kahane as a racist. When you say you admire Meir Kahane, and create a group which is clearly modeled on the JDL, you are placing yourself at a particular location on the political spectrum. - Sean McBride

JIDF -- do you endorse vigilantism, malicious hacking, harassment, bombings, terrorism, etc.? Why do you think it is that the American government has zero tolerance for Kahanist groups and methods? Why would any American in his or right mind link her or her political activities to Meir Kahane, given the associations to officially designated terrorist groups? - Sean McBride

may I also point out that I would like the Palestinian forces to stop murdering, beating and abducting Israelis. But I'm not nieve to think that it will happen under duress. Both sides need to stop attacking each other - the empty ceasefires offered up by the Israeli government are simply not ceasefires. If they really want peace they'll go for a real ceasefire and do a proper deal such... more... - alphaxion

Still haven't seen an answer to this question: are Jewish settlements for Jews only or for members of all ethnic and religious groups? Nor have we seen acknowledgment from JDIF and NDS that every government in the world strongly opposes Jewish settlements in the occupied terrorities. - Sean McBride

@Sean While I don't support the JDL and its violent actions, the organization does extend beyond killing people. Remember, at one point the US gov't said much the same things about the Black Panthers. Beyond that, while I don't support violent actions, when a group faces people who call for its extermination and have to fear lynchings from groups like the American Nazis, the formation... more... - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I see many parallels between this and the troubles in Northern Ireland - two groups of people with a history of violence against each other. Even if the UK had gone against the wishes of the Northern Irish people and given the land back, there would still be fighting. Which is why the whole situation makes me feel sorry for the innocents trapped inbetween, just trying to live their lives. - alphaxion

Aram -- how much understanding did the American government offer to Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel? And how sensitive is the matter of Mideast terrorism currently when the American president is being besieged with terrorist threats on a daily basis, and considering that Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a Kahanist? - Sean McBride

@Sean, I didn't say I approved, I said I can understand how such a group can come about. You can't consider things in a vacuum. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

On the matter of Kahanism, anything but the strongest possible condemnation is entirely unacceptable. There is a clear track record here, and a climate of current threats. - Sean McBride

alphaxion -- two major differences between the Irish and Israeli situations: 1. the Irish situation is not likely to cause a global financial meltdown or worse (like the use of WMDs). 2. One rarely sees Irish Americans introducing Irish nationalism into mainstream American politics in a contentious way. Irish Americans on the whole keep a low profile on foreign ethnic nationalist issues -- there is no Irish AIPAC. - Sean McBride

I wasn't talking about Kahanism, just the formation of the JDL and the reasoning behind it. (By the way The National Consortium for the Study of Terror and Responses to Terrorism says "the JDL does not currently engage in terrorist actions.") Once again, I'm just saying that there is a reason behind its formation. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Aram -- all terrorist groups are motivated by a rationale, right? The rationale they've constructed for themselves doesn't excuse them. - Sean McBride

All ethnic and religious terrorist groups are motivated by the same rationale -- the violent and criminal pursuit of their self-interest and often crackpot messianic fantasies. - Sean McBride

I am off to the beach to enjoy a spectacular summer afternoon, and will reenable comments when I return. - Sean McBride

While enjoying the afternoon at one of the most beautiful beaches in America in perfect weather, I was struck by the pure joy of witnessing a multitude of ethnic and religious groups mingling and sharing the same blissful space in peace and happiness, without a hint of conflict, and it struck me that this was a resonant image of the ideals of modern secular democracies. One finds the... more... - Sean McBride

Looking at an article published in an Iranian media outlet in no way constitutes support for the media outlet or for Iran -- on the contrary, I have been a harsh critic of Iran and Iranian theocracy. If you consult my Mideast News group https://friendfeed.com/mideast..., you will notice that most of my sources are Israeli and Jewish, including many right-wing Israeli and Jewish... more... - Sean McBride

Doing some browsing on the issue of apartheid, and this stuck me as a piece of high-quality and nuanced analysis: article(Leila Farsakh; Israel: an apartheid state?; Le Monde diplomatique; November 2003; http://mondediplo.com/2003...). Quote: "Despite their initial differences, apartheid South Africa and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have become similar since 1993. Will... more... - Sean McBride

NDS -- rewrite your last post without all the angry and overheated invective, add clean paragraph breaks, post it to your blog with a pointer here, and I'll read it carefully and respond. As a rule my mind automatically filters out writing full of fuming and self-righteous aggression. You should have noticed by now that all the even-tempered comments here stand undeleted, regardless of their point of view. - Sean McBride

you never elaborate your issues. analysis requires specifics. you aren't even specific about your accusation of "fuming and self-righteous aggression" - Noah David Simon

Noah -- if you review this thread, you will see that I have discussed dozens of specifics, most of which you flew right by without response. The more emotional the topic (and this is perhaps the most emotional topic in the world), the greater the need to lower the emotional volume to near zero to have a useful discussion. See David Cooper's comments for examples of how to make clear,... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, according to the CIA's 18th and 19th century predessors, theoretically Israel shouldn't exist at all. Just goes to show an intelligence agency assessment can be wrong. - George Hall (Australia)

CIA report http://friendfeed.com/igorthe... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

George Hall -- what are your thoughts on the future of ethnic nationalist and ethno-religious nationalist states in general? I would no more bet on them than I would bet on Communist states, the newspaper industry or cars manufactured by General Motors. (Are you an Australian, by the way?) What I *would* bet on are catastrophic developments in the Mideast, a region which seems to be firmly under the control of Abrahamic apocalyptic memes among all parties concerned. - Sean McBride

Browsing around, I just noticed that Israpundit, a right-wing pro-Israel site, posted the CIA report story on March 15, 2009 http://www.israpundit.com/2008.... It was widely reposted all over the Internet. (Presumably, Israpundit is not an Iranian propaganda outlet. :)) Many people, and some Israelis in particular, are curious to know what the report on the report is all about and... more... - Sean McBride

I just browsed the latest comments here -- apparently all from JIDF members (Igor's "Mossad" and Kahanist associates), and realized that any opportunity for a rational discussion and debate in this thread has evaporated. I asked George Hall a direct question about the future of ethnic and ethno-religious nationalism, and was treated to a biblical disquistion from a true believer -- not... more... - Sean McBride

Robert Scoble

I paid $52 to be an ad for Toyota. Why? Because: - http://ourdoings.com/roberts...

August 3 from Robert Scoble - Comment - Like - Share

Mitchell Tsai, DGentry, Shannon Clark and 20 other people liked this

Someone stole my logo a few weeks back while my car sat at the San Francisco airport. The replacement cost $52 which I happily paid. Why? My car felt naked without it and I love my 2010 Prius. And THAT is advertising Toyota can't buy. - Robert Scoble

32 more comments

Ghah! I have a Gen3 that I love as well -- and I plan on parking it at an airport tomorrow -- and the thought that people are stealing these badges makes me sad (and scared for my poor Gen3). - Paul Wilcox

Slap a Lexus logo on it lol - Than R

who knew that Toyota ornaments were so lucrative on the black market - Christi

$52...a bargain... - Buzz Bruggeman

I think you did it because it look geeky cool! - Bogdan Costea

Would have been cool to put your Hulk Picture on a logo on the car in an oval shape- green and all...:-) - Lyn Graft

My stereo can beat up your stereo. ;) - Brett Schulte

Which is more impressive: You paid $52 for a new logo, or someone placed enough value in your logo to rip it from your car? Also: Did you know that the new Prius logos are blue inside because in Japan blue is the color associated with energy conservation (as opposed to green here). Apparently there was a lot of debate within Toyota about whether the logo should be blue in the US, and some owners are unhappy with the blue logo, especially when it's on a car whose color clashes with it. - Kevin Fox

Don't we all do that any time we pay for something with a logo? - David

Your logo was stolen? Is it 1987? Are we putting those on chains again? - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

++ Eric - Jennifer Dittrich

That is a nice looking logo, not something I would want -that- badly though.. - Greg Clute from iPhone

Brett: yeah, but my stereo gets 45 mpg. :-) - Robert Scoble

Asgod: I figure some kid is collecting car logos for his bedroom wall. - Robert Scoble

Hey Robert, just turned 100,000 on my second gen Prius. If they made computers like they make the Priuses we'd be golden. One minor software glitch in 100,000 miles. - Steve Poppe

I want a Prius soooo bad! - Travis Tasset

I've got a 2007 Prius and love it. It's too bad you couldn't rig the backup camera to get a picture of the theif. - Grant Austin

LOL. - Zachary TG

My car seems to be missing its Toyota logo as well.. - Eric Dunlap

I'm still suprised that the Prius only gets 45 mpg. My $11k Yaris gets almost 40. Costs a lot to be smug, I guess :) - Blake

Blake: it depends on how you drive it. If I drive it like an old lady I get 55. :-) - Robert Scoble

Blake: also, I do a LOT of mountain driving, which isn't optimal for the hybrid. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Makes sense. I hear that city mileage is better than highway for the Prius. - Blake

I live at the base of the Sierra Nevadas and I can tell you my Prius screams in pain every time I drive home from somewhere. - Kevin Arth

I would have sold mine from my '96 toyota for half of that price... :) - Shoukat Dharani

I wouldn't have otherwise noticed that the Toyota symbol was two circles - I feel like a goof now. - Ciaoenrico

Lots of Prius love here in this thread...gotta check out http://priuschat.com to see who else is there. - Tim Cooper

That is one of the most unique round about marketing stories I've ever heard! No pun intended! hahahha - Tanya Noel

When my Saab logo rubbed off, I felt the same way. - Schneider Mike

It would cost more than 52 dollars to understand the meaning of this loss with a collegue, so... that's a good deal ! - Yann Leroux

Scoble - didn't you learn ANYTHING when you told people you hated it when someone grabbed your name on a social media site? Result: It became a geek meme to grab your name. Now you've made it a badge of geek honor to have the Scoble Prius badge! - Brett Schulte

Let's re-use and recycle instead of buying new, you know? I have a mint-condition logo for a 2010 Prius that I recently, uh, found. I do feel your pain at the loss of your "badge", so I am offering you (or any in the "Silico-ti" bubble) -- for only $35 -- the chance of feel less naked than you've felt in a long while, I promise. Details here-- http://tr.im/vktz . - Adrian

Robert, if it's ever stolen again, don't glue the replacement on _too_ well. You don't want the thieves to scratch your paint stealing the replacement. $35-$52 is a heck of a lot cheaper than fixing your paint. I had a lot of body work done on my various cars recently, and it's so expensive It almost makes me cry. - Adrian Otto

Tim O'Reilly

Tech meccas: The 12 holy sites of IT http://infoworld.com/d... (via @SaraPeyton)

August 3 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Prometa, Jayesh Salvi, Urbansheep and 2 other people liked this

Superb, thank you for sharing! - Bogdan Costea

Ahsan Ali aka. Slick to Ahsan's feed, Cool!

A great thread - "What was your first home computer?" - http://stackoverflow.com/questio...

August 1 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

anna sauce, Morten Blaabjerg, Ken Okabe and 55 other people liked this

Mine was a cheap Celeron - 4 GB - 64 MB ram - back in 1999 - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick from Bookmarklet

92 more comments

TRS-80, yo. Old school. - Neal Jansons

Commodore Vic-20. Shatner Yo! - Mark Krynsky from iPhone

Oooh...Mark's got me. Plus I was a little kid when I had it. First computer I coded on was an Apple 2 when I was 10 years old. Good old Apple BASIC. - Neal Jansons

386sx33, 4mb RAM, and an upgraded 480mb hdd, not too long after which I acquired a 14.4bps modem. - Matthew Horton

HeathKit H89 http://oldcomputers.net/heathki... - but if you count time in the HeathKit store learning things, then the HeathKit H8 - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Apple ][+ sort of, but technically, I think it may be: http://stackoverflow.com/questio... - Micah Wittman

I built my first computer. Since then I have never used branded ones, except the HP laptop I use these days. - Nitin Nanivadekar

The first photo. That was our first home computer, a Commodore 64. - Admiral Anika

Apple ][+ - Amit Morson

Apple IIc - Anne Bouey

Apple IIe - Kevin Bondelli

A Gateway 2000! http://www.dracowulf.com/images... I was 12 - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

Acorn Electron (from the makers of the BBC computer). - Kol Tregaskes

Commodore 64, goldstar 286 12Mhz, 4mb RAM, 40Mb HDD... - Lee from iPod

My best friend had an Acorn Electron, good memories. - Amit Morson

a casio 702 P (with basic inside ! and a ABC keyboard), and a ZX 81 (with a 16 ko memomry extension)...that was a lot of fun !!!! - Olivier

My first Computer was a Micron pc with a blistering 200 MGHZ. I'm afraid to admit how much I paid for that puppy. It started out with the 14.4 bps Modem, then when it went out some 2 years later I up graded to the 28.8 bps. - Brent - Loving Life

Commodore Vic-20, with a blazing fast 300 baud modem. Or maybe 110 baud, I don't recall clearly. - DGentry

Commodore 64, Olivetti 286 16 MHz, Olivetti 486sx25... - Rasmus Lauridsen

Atari 800 for me. - Tony Vota

Commodore 64 :) - Gunny doesn't side-hug™

Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K - Mark H

Commodore PET - chiclet keyboard 8K - Brian Sullivan

Mine was a 48k Sinclair ZX Spectrum+, much fun was had. - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Commodore VIC-20 - Christopher A Carr

Dell 386 upgraded to 8MB of RAM - Raphael, Raphael

My first one was a custom-built affair with a 166 MHz Pentium back in 1997.... - Ashikur Rahman from fftogo

IBM Aptiva M. 100Mhz P1 | 8MB ram| Win95 - Adi from iPod

First @ School: Radio Shack TRS-80; Family: IBM PC; My first one personally was a used Mac 512k - Spidra Webster

Commodore Amiga 1000 - Andy

IBM 286 with an embedded screen, no hard drive and a huge 8 inch floppy drive. - Bogdan Costea

Radio Shack TRS-80 - Michael Fidler from BuddyFeed

Sinclair ZX Spectrum 16K.. When I upgraded to C-64 i thought it was the ultimate computer, will be used forever.. - Jacque from fftogo

Macintosh Performa series. - Johnny from BuddyFeed

Tandy TRS-80 Color around 1982/3 - Tsali, The Native of FF

Pravec 16, it would run Prince of Persia though :-D - Dobromir Hadzhiev

VIC-20 with tape drive in 1983. first REAL computer was a 286/16 turbo i built from parts. i think i used DOS 5 as the OS. 20MB MFM hard drive and Trident SVGA video card. whee. - Joe Silence is not Santa

Sinclair ZX80 - built it myself :) - Ian Betteridge

Commodore 64! :) - Cyndi ~ @muchmorethanmom

eMachine. - Nation Hahn

Apple Lisa with the 10 Mb hard drive and the 7/7 office suite. - MVB (Grinch of FF) from fftogo

@Mark You had a LISA? OMG that's so many punk-rock nerd points I don't even know how to score it. /envy - Neal Jansons from IM

Apple ][e - James (!?)

TRS-80 model I - Capn' One Eye - adrift

TI99 - Mark Essel

TRS-80 Model II here. Props to metageoff for having a Model I. :-) I had four 8" floppy drives for data storage and a cassette tape drive for my games. - Jason Huebel

Apple Macintosh 512K, aka "Fat Mac" - Fred Yankowski

TRS-80 mk1 4K of ram. - Robert Hafer from iPhone

I just pulled my trs-80 out of the closet and it still works, old tech is good tech, still have the manual and everything! - Tsali, The Native of FF from IM

The first one I ever used was an Imsai 8080 in high school in 1977. The first one I ever owned was an Osborne Executive that I bought when I was in collage in 1983. - Jeff P. Henderson

I cut my teeth on a VIC-20 (we had a light pen for it), but spent most of my proto-hacker days on the Commodore 64. - Andy Bakun

IBM PC i8088 with 256k of ram. DOS 3.2 - Mike Nencetti

TRS-80 - Eric Logan

Power Mac 7100. - Hiro Asari

@Andy: a light pen for the VIC?!? *BOGGLE* - Joe Silence is not Santa

I had SVI 728, my parents had Apple II. - Burcu Dogan

Commodore 64 ...but the first one with a use was my IBM PC - Noah David Simon

Oh good call, Dead Silence. I had a tape drive on my VIC-20 also. - Andy Bakun

Commodore 64 was my first home computer. - J.D. Deutschendorf

Commodore PET 2001 http://oldcomputers.net/pet2001... I paid $4900 (in 1979 dollars) with a crappy dot matrix printer and dual 171K floppies http://pc-museum.com/gallery... Floppy disks were $50 for a package of 10, which contained a total of 1.7 MB of storage. :o) - Ken Morley

Commodore VIC-20 - Mike Reynolds

Amiga 1000 - Alessandro

Commodore VIC-20 followed pretty quickly with a C 64. - Jen (SquirrelGirl) from iPhone

Tandy 2000 with 768k of RAM, and dual 720k 5.25" Floppy drives. - Rick Kaiser

the one before pentium 95, 60? put together from pieces, not a brand name. - Marg Uerite

we had an Apple 2 - Rob Cairns

Atari 800 - still have it, still works! :) - timepilot

Apple IIgs, 1987. I was 6. The first computer that was mine and mine alone to use was an IBM PS/1, 386sx/25mhz with 2MB RAM and a 170MB HDD. It had a 2400 baud modem. Fun times. - Tamar Weinberg

Radio Shack Color Computer 2 with associated crappy cassette tape player. Real first computer was my Apple //e with extended 128K RAM and 80 column card, duo floppy drive, color monitor, and Image Writer II. Sweet setup. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Apple Macintosh Plus - Tristan Seligmann

used Apple ][e in the eary 90's - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

EdTheSlowAss, my NEC 9820 http://friendfeed.com/app103... - April Russo (app103)

Mine was a cheap no-name brand from BestBuy. - Jim Turner

Oh yeah, I had a tape drive for the Commodore 64 as well: "Press Play on Tape" - Christopher A Carr

TRS-80. Didn't start programming until the C-64 though. - Wade Dorrell

IBM Thinkpad 365XD Laptop. - Shawn Whitmire

Atari 800XL - Adrian

Can't decide between the Commodore 64 or Amiga 1000. Both great machines for their own reasons. - Diego Barros 

Commodore 64 with tape drive - Nathan Jelf-Mannion

ZX Spectrum 16k/ rubber keys -- like chiclets but they took seconds to register, then pop back out... cute but crazy. - Graham Sergeant

Amiga 2000 - Sajida H Khan

Our first family computer was a ZX Spectrum 16K. My first computer was an Atari 520ST. - Andrew Roche

The rubber keys were great, especially for playing Daley Thompson's Decathlon. - Andrew Roche

I did not own it, but the TRS-80 was the first computer I really dove into. [And to the specific language of the question (“the one that made you fall in love with programming”) - sorry, but I don't think I ever “fell in love with programming.”] I did program, though, and quite a bit in subsequent years. On the TRS-80, I wrote a program called “The Oracle” with a dude named Chico Trowbridge. It is still highly classified code... ;) - Anthony Citrano

Anthony, that's a fascinating name "Chico Trowbridge" ;) - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

Commedore 64. In 1989. I got it for free. - Helen Sventitsky

Tandy 100 pre-notebook. 8k ram. No drive I wrote stories for Computer People Monthly and would have to dump to casette deck twice to complete an article. $1000 then. - Rosalee Grable

Lol Anthony... I sold a couple of my first Commodore PET programs to 'Cursor Magazine' for a whopping $200! I discovered them a while back on YouTube...I hadn't seen them for 30 years! Dig the cool PET graphics :o) http://www.youtube.com/watch... http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Ken Morley

My first computer was a tiny Oric-1 with a giant monitor, which I inherited from my father. I learned to program it, good enough to run adventure games in BASIC on it. Later I jumped to the Amstrad CPC, which was my favourite computer for a long long time. I later made the shift to the Amiga 500, mostly for playing the many wonderful games for it - and some word processing. It was only... more... - Morten Blaabjerg

There's so many. I used an Apple in 2nd grade to do something, but can't remember what it was (Cupertino, sigh). I remember hacking the screens of the Apple IIe. First time I got truly interested in computers. - anna sauce

A Dick Smith Wizard, massive 1k of RAM, speedy 2Mhz processor. - Peter Tonoli

@Ken - very cool, that's early digital film-making! ;) @Ahsan - I know, funky name, pretty sure the first name was a nickname... - Anthony Citrano

too young to remember... probably a 286 of some sort - Chris Heath

Bogdan Costea

My first child is here. Meet Alex, born on 23.07.2009, at 12:15 - http://picasaweb.google.com/SuperSo...

July 23 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Rob Haas, Anna Haro, Mo Kargas and 3 other people liked this

Congratulations! We're expecting our first in November, and I can't wait to be where you are today. :) - Michael Hocter

3 more comments

Fuarte frumos! - Adrian

Welcome to the world, Alex!!! :-D - Anna Haro

Thank you! We've been waiting for this moment a long time, and it's worth it. I finally got some sleep last night. - Bogdan Costea

@Michael: May you have a healthy and beautiful baby - Bogdan Costea

Paul Buchheit

Anyone need a copy of Concurrent DOS?

July 21 - Comment - Like - Share

Dan Hsiao, Sam Harmon, TheSleepyGeek and 17 other people liked this

Available for PPC machines? :) - directeur

9 more comments

Reminds me of tricking out a Commodore 64 so that it operated as 4 16K machines all at the same time (via Computer magazine). - Mike Reynolds

Install it on a netbook. - Steve Rubel

Is it on 3.5" disks? - Gabe

Where did you get a copy of that, out of curiosity? - Tyson Key

Would a copy of Windows v1.03 on 5.25" diskette trump CDOS...? http://andrewterry.com/2009... :-) - Andrew Terry

I remember finding some Elonex OEM'd copies of MS-DOS and Windows 3.0 on 3.5" ages ago (came on about 6 floppies each), but I'm not sure if I still have them. Other than some disk image files of Banyan VINES, I don't think I have anything older handy that still runs on x86 without an emulator (barring Windows 95, or an ancient version of something like Photoshop or Corel WordPerfect). - Tyson Key

I still have the books for DOS 6, Win 3.0, 95 and 98 SE but they're brand new products compared to that. I envy the good condition... :) - Bogdan Costea

Paul, can you please load these up and make a vmware image, or some onlineable version of this? would be so awesome. - Rob Schonberger

Ha, I love the "art" on these old computer manuals. But it's not as good as this classic: http://globalnerdy.com/wordpre... - Joel Webber

I liked the old MS-DOS logo, as used on the manuals, for what it's worth. - Tyson Key

Sean O'Connor

American drivers should learn to love the roundabout. - Slate Magazine - http://www.slate.com/id...

July 21 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

John μller and Steve Lacey liked this

"Roundabouts are safer than traditional intersections for a simple reason: By dint of geometry and traffic rules, they reduce the number of places where one vehicle can strike another by a factor of four. They also eliminate the left turn against oncoming traffic—itself one of the main reasons for intersection danger—as well as the prospect of vehicles running a red light or speeding up as they approach an intersection to "beat the light." The fact that roundabouts may "feel" more dangerous to the average driver is a good thing: It increases vigilance." - Sean O'Connor from Bookmarklet

5 more comments

Is this one safer? http://maps.google.com/maps... - Gary Burd

That looks insane. Are you familiar with this traffic circle? - Sean O'Connor

I grew up a couple of miles from that rotary. - Gary Burd

Roundabouts rock. - Steve Lacey

Here's a nice one - http://maps.google.com/maps... - Bogdan Costea

Roundabouts are just about everywhere in Europe and they're getting more and more popular - Bogdan Costea

★ Soner Gönül

Which movie has this cap?

July 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Aykut Önen, salvador arturo martinez, Göksel Şirin and 3 other people liked this

Back to the Future 2 - Matt Ruiz

4 more comments

u r fast :) - ★ Soner Gönül

Back to the Future II. - Jason Huebel

Jason I won >:D Mwahah - Matt Ruiz

Yup back to the Future 2. Classic movie. To bad that Micheal J fox is really affected by parkinson.... - alfred westerveld

too easy, the skateboard has no wheels, come on - Bogdan Costea

Bwana ☠

Security Guru Calls Chrome OS's Security Claims "Idiotic" - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...

July 9 from Bwana's shared items in... - Comment - Like - Share

LANjackal, HealingBrush, deakaz and 5 other people liked this

Noted security guru Bruce Schneier, founder and chief technologist at BT, has scoffed at Google's claims about its new OS, just announced yesterday. According to the Google blog post, Chrome OS represents a complete redesign of the underlying security architecture of the OS "so that users don't have to deal with viruses, malware, and security updates." A bold statement to say the least...and apparently one Schneier doesn't think too much of. "It's an idiotic claim," he says. Sponsor In a Yahoo News story, it's reported that Schneier isn't completely buying Google's promises. "It was mathematically proved decades ago that it is impossible -- not an engineering impossibility, not technologically impossible, but the 2+2=3 kind of impossible -- to create an operating system that is immune to viruses." That seems to us like he's picking on the semantics of Google's statement just a bit. Google says that users "won't have to deal with viruses," and Schneier is noting that it's simply not... - Bwana ☠

4 more comments

It's simple actually. Software without bugs simply does not exist. If there is a bug or a clear vulnerability, someone WILL find it and someone WILL exploit it for profit. It's all about how many people are looking for it. As more and more people will move to Chrome(and Firefox for that matter), more and more vulnerabilities will appear. Doesn't matter if it's an OS or not. The only thing that will be harder is getting to your data(which will be in the cloud on a billion sites and webapps) - Bogdan Costea

Of course there will be security issues. Remember that Google Android bug where everything the user typed ended up being executed in a root terminal? - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

Google seems to be saying that the user will have less involvement in addressing these flaws, which doesn't contradict Schneier's statement about the impossibility of having a bug-free system - Mike Chelen

Gee, who to believe on this one: 2 security experts, or an analyst who probably has a liberal arts degree? Hmmm ... anyway Google's statement about users not having to worry about viruses is probably due to Chrome's auto-update feature. Of course, if nearly any other OS/app updated itself automatically without user approval, the blogosphere would be ablaze with fury ... - LANjackal

ubuntu and many linux distros have an option to download and install security updates automatically, it works quite nicely especially when all software is installed through the package manager - Mike Chelen

chaz2b

femmes scorned meme

July 15 - Comment - Like - Share

Chieze Okoye, Lars Clausen, Nia and 17 other people liked this

Snap! - Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕ from iPhone

16 more comments

Dayum. - Jason Huebel from iPhone

Ooh, somebody put *snap* him *snap* in *snap* the *snap* box. *SNAP* - Derrick

im coming across of greatr pics but have probs getting them to post, so i have one more link to come thru before i get scorned, ;) - chaz2b

What's a barstard? - Mellissa Claus

an illigitimate boy, used as a derogatory term towards unfaithful, lying, cheating, males, :( - chaz2b

Maybe he cheated on her because of her bad spelling. - Cristo

OH. EM.GEE CRISTO - Caroline

I've seen worse. my old friend at work was a Druze and he dated an Egyptian girl. he woke up and she trashed his place. apparently Druze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... are not allowed to marry anyone but their own kind (but they notoriously sleep around... (I can say from experience of knowing a bunch)). he had let the Egyptian girl know his background and she knew enough about his... more... - Noah David Simon

Classy! - Tyson Key

Apparently that's the way Brits complain. - Mahmood Padura

That was a pretty darstardly thing to do. - Kimber Scott

Gotta love that it says "Smile" on the windscreen. - Tyson Key

I'm sensing some anger there... - Mark "DerBingle" J

fricking facebook moving - Bogdan Costea

Send Hillary Clinton for a state visit to Sudan. Sudan now flogs women who wear pants suits. http://www.ynetnews.com/article... - Noah David Simon

Can I like this about eleventybillion more times? To paraphrase Chris Rock, I'm not saying I'd ever do something like this, I'm just saying I understand. </jilted_girlfriend> - cecily

No Comment - Kevin J Hatton

Bogdan Costea

Changed my picture with a newer one. It's nicer too

July 16 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Changed it on friendfeed too - Bogdan Costea

mashable

YoTwits Automates Retweeting: Is This A Good Thing? - http://mashable.com/2009...

July 15 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Naser ziab liked this

Will be interesting to see it's outcome. Will probably be abused as other services are now with spammers. - Tenzin Doje

Sounds like auto-propagating spam to me :) - Bogdan Costea

Bogdan Costea that's exactly what it sounds like. - Tenzin Doje

Bogdan Costea

The Law of Demeter Is Not A Dot Counting Exercise - http://haacked.com/archive...

July 15 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Tracy liked this

A very good paper on the law of Demeter - http://www.ccs.neu.edu/researc... - techie stuff warning! - Bogdan Costea

Jorge Escobar

Please caption this! - http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos...

July 9 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

David Gross, Alejandro, Jesse and 55 other people liked this

"So, do you have any global warming around here?" - Jorge Escobar from Bookmarklet

38 more comments

mmmmmmmmmmmm Nice.......um............summit........... - Kevin J Hatton

Need to scratch an itch? - Pete Delucchi from iPhone

"Chelsea's looking fiiiiiiiine. Wouldn't it be funny if I...nah nevermind." - Josh Haley

Truth and beauty - sound and fury. The French and Americans find common cause... - Thom Kennon

That's a classic photo. - Admiral Anika

ahhhh... What were you saying? - amarquart

"It's good to be a king... er.. president!" - Jemm

Oi, mate, I know she's only got one leg and the whole world is watching but how about we skip this G8 thing and get her to your place - Bogdan Costea

"Parlez vous L'Inglese?" - Jorge Escobar

haha~~~Obama likes the sexy ass. - Anew

"I -- Like -- Big Butts and I Can't Not Lie!" - Jorge Escobar

Now I have an Akon song in my head. - Victor Ganata

Clinton isn't the only president after Bush - PLUGOLA

skeeeeeeeeeeezer! - .LAG liked that

Hahahahhaha! - Mona Nomura

Hahah LOL @ Sarkozy hiding a smile - Mo Kargas

exactly Mo! LOL! - vijay

this is like the Woman in Red in the Matrix and Obama is Neo =P - vijay

..."B*tch betta have my MONEY!" ....LOLz! - .LAG liked that

watch out with those stairs naughty girl - Dobromir Hadzhiev

Schwiiiiiiiiiinnggg... - Holger Eilhard

Guess who's going to be sharing the doghouse with Bo with the First Lady sees this! - Jay Oatway

Here's another - http://www.imagechicken.com/uploads... - Joe Dawson

Sarkozy is enjoying it more than anyone. - Nitin Nanivadekar

Friendfeed is turning out to be more intersting than I thought - Nitin Nanivadekar

"There's a change I could get into." - David Cook

"When the President does it, that means it is not illegal." - Parth Awasthi

1UP Parth - Akiva Moskovitz

Take a look at *that* stimulus package! - Stephen Smith

Sarkozy has the best face EVER and lol Stephen - Ethan

"Excuse me, I just remembered I have a piece of legistation to pass... miss?" - Jorge Escobar

:) :) :) - Ronald

Must ass pegislation. - Rick Cogley

And now for my next trick I will Channel Bill Clinton! - Moved to Facebook from fftogo

"I wonder if Michelle would like those shoes?" - CAJ, somewhere else

Video that makes the photo a bit more clear: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politic... - RAPatton

The best part of the video is Sarkozy. Slut. - Admiral Anika

I'm a fan of Sarkozy now. - Alejandro

Tutti frutti, raspberry booti! - jcunwired

l0ckergn0me

Caption It - http://www.sodahead.com/questio...

July 10 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

YungSang, TheHenry, Bogdan Costea and Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah liked this

Whaaat? - LA

3 more comments

"My Marriage acted out by Squirrels" - Bastard Operator From FF

Reservoir Squirrels - Andrew Terry from iPod

Scene II of a tableau. Scene I here: http://friendfeed.com/micahwi... - Micah Wittman

When I snap my fingers you will get up, climb that tree and fetch me an acorn... - Bogdan Costea

Jim Connolly

You can have a thousand people subscribe to your FriendFeed and no one actually reading it. I often wonder how many of the 1,600 people that subscribe to me, actually see my feed. I'm thinking far fewer than 10%.

July 9 - Comment - Like - Share

Anne Bouey, Mark Harai, Jeff P. Henderson and 36 other people liked this

I think the opposite is a better question. If you follow 1600, what percent of the posts do you read? - Jeremy Malin

49 more comments

I happen to read this one :). But yeah it's easy to miss things. Only a very small percentage of posts get bubbled up and these are all the posts people read when they go to Friendfeed - Andre P. Siregar

Jeremy: Good point. I use groups and tend to dip into and out of them. Timing is key. - Jim Connolly

Andre: Yes, if a 'popular' FriendFeed user comments on your feed, it makes a huge difference. - Jim Connolly

Yes, the numbers are small unless you get engagement, then it goes way up. - Robert Scoble

Good point Mr Scoble! - Jim Connolly

so active reader is the key - kang

kang: yes, because if your item gets likes or comments that item gets shown to all of that user's followers, which is how your item will get a large audience. - Robert Scoble

lack of a decent desktop/iphone client doesn't help either. - Shivanand Velmurugan

The moment I entered, I happened to read this one! Random reads are best sometimes... - ilaxi

Also, if Scoble comments, you get a lot of eyeballs :) (which is how I noticed this, yup I have a separate group called "Scobles", which has 2 ppl in it) - Shivanand Velmurugan

This thread had not had a comment for ages, til Scoble commented. - Jim Connolly

We should get Scoble and Dave Winer to stop using twitter and FF for 2 weeks, and see what happens to the traffic stats :) - Shivanand Velmurugan

Jim: the thing is it was on the top of my browser when I first signed in this morning. So someone clicking like or commenting got it on my radar screen. - Robert Scoble

I think FF is based on "word-of-mouth" or "likes", which probably is the only way posts get noticed (atleast if one follows >50 ppl). Lists help to track specific persons, but ultimately, it's likes that determines how much attention a specific post gets.The amount of data to process is still quite enormous. It would really kewl, if FF can pick 20 items that are most relevant (based on social data) to me in the last 24 hours. - Shivanand Velmurugan

Likes are certainly a MASSIVE part of gaining people's attention here. - Jim Connolly

Actually, that is the very same question I'm asking right now. How do you view Friendfeed feeds Jim? - nesh thompson

Native posts are important also. One of the reasons many initially get no engagement is the result of a conditioned FF community bored with posting responses to Twitter entries which never seem to be read by the originating user. If I want to engage and I suspect others do this also, I usually look for the threads of native users. - Eric Logan

It would be cool if we could have Google Analytics support on FriendFeed so we could measure traffic from Google and all thing else. - Svartling

Eric - I agree. Many people use FF purely as a place to 'dump' crap from Twitter / blip / facebook etc. - Jim Connolly

As FriendFeed gets more crowded, even people with lots of followers need to follow my advice for finding their audience. That is, wait for the conversation that your post would be helpful for, and then help it. Like you said, timing is key. Details at http://ourdoings.com/ourdoin... - Bruce Lewis

I agree with Scoble. Friendfeed is all about engagement. Some people follow others just to "have them on their list" but they could care less what you have to say 90% of the time.. To me, that is purpose defeating on a service like Twitter or Friendfeed. It's all about engagement and community. - John Fox

John, if I could care less what someone has to say 90% of the time, I probably wouldn't follow them. I'd follow someone who tends to 'Like' the same 10% I do. For a long time I didn't follow Robert Scoble until one day I went into his feed and saw some things I liked that nobody else 'Liked'. - Bruce Lewis

Bruce: I did say "some people". My statement doesn't apply to everyone, obviously. - John Fox

I'd say many folks hop in at specific windows of time (like myself). You made it to my superhuman filter list so I'm much more likely to see what you posted, or at least scan the titles. - Mark Essel

I read you everyday Jim - Wayne Dibert

Ah, right. Apologies, John. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

After 3 hours of posting my initial message here, there has been 13 'likes' and 19 comments (including my own) from 1,600 subscribers. I find that interesting. - Jim Connolly

Well, Jim, timing is a huge part of it. This post was made at 4:30 EDT, which means the bulk of the US wasn't awake (or, at least not FFing) to see it. Assuming your subscriber distribution is similar to the FF user distribution, taking out the entire US population from your readership is going to decrease the overall % of people that see the post. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Jim, I've also seen your comment,but as I have nothing futher to add to what has already been said,I have left it be. - Paul Downing

Bruce: No problem. That's what 'Net communites are all about - expressing opinions and ideas. - John Fox

I think Jeremy has the right idea. I see many of these "marketing" gurus "following" thousands of people. I wonder what their stream looks like. I'd prefer to engage a few hundred than blast to thousands. - Keith Beucler

Wayne: Thanks! - Jim Connolly

Nesh: I started off by subscribing to Robert Scoble, as we have many similar interests. Then, I found people in Scobles stream who were really interesting, so I subscribed to their feeds. Pretty soon I was following some really interesting people. I LOVE FriendFeed - I just do! - Jim Connolly

Tina: As usual, you make a great point. My tech news blog's readership is mainly American & because I mention FF so often there, I have quite a few US based FF buddies. I try & take that into account when posting on the blog AND here on FF too. - Jim Connolly

I love the fact you can customize friendfeed in this way, so I can read the feeds I want in the way I want to. Power to the user :) On Twitter, you do think that more people would be reading the message? I doubt it. - Asgeir

FF is massively more configurable than Twitter. This thread could not have happened on Twitter. - Jim Connolly

I suppose you could give a virtual treat to your audience that pays attention. Like a high five, a Scoble beer, or the like. I'm happy with quality information and a genuine viewpoint/perspective. I'm working on automating my serendipitous search with semantic tools and superhuman filters. - Mark Essel from iPhone

I love friendfeed because I don't subscribe to you and I still saw this. And it's worth seeing. - Bill Kinney

Bill: You make a good point. By following what our friends are commenting on and liking, we get to discover interesting resources / people. - Jim Connolly

Easy to answer Jim. I have about 1300 (+300 blocked). I interact with around 50 in total, 4-5 per day. I have 'followers' in all timezones, so at most I have 20-30 people really reading my tweets all the time for sure. Why? because they click on my links. How I know? Post a TwitPic and see the count how many clicked on it. :-) If I can have 1 person to learn from or make 1 person smile - I feel good. - Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic

I do - atanas

I have put some thoughts about this here: http://bit.ly/CrMGM -- this was a post that I had waited to write a long time. - Jorge Escobar

Agreement here... IMO "real time" has made things more so.... timing more important, participation by popular users more important. Most stuff floats down the RT stream unnoticed, right into the bit bucket. - Richard pancakhaus Walker

I always wonder that. No one ever comments on my crap. Then again, I probably have too much noise. Oh well - I use friendfeed more to comment on other people's stuff. - George Smith

you must not be interesting. like me. :-) - Matt Soreco

Well, everybody that answered doesn't add up to 10% but I think it partially answers your question :) - Bogdan Costea

I came, I saw, I read. I commented. - Mark "DerBingle" J

This happens in Twitter too. But People still have conversation here - Michael_techie

Engagement and participation... I think you can give more and receive more here because of the expanded conversation. People will follow you here because they are interested in what you have to say/offer. It will be interesting to see where your FF is in the coming months : ) - Mark Harai

Hey, I'm just joining the conversation - what was it again? - Neil Ashworth

Jeffrey Veen

Even at this point in my life, putting on a suit feels like wearing a costume.

July 9 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Eric E. Anderson, shirli, Justin Korn and 4 other people liked this

A superhero costume, I hope? - Michael R. Bernstein

5 more comments

I never could wear a jacket. I still can't. I'm usually the only person wearing a shirt and tie..no jacket. When they'll be able to code AND dress up, I'll buy a jacket too :) - Bogdan Costea

I can relate to that - Black Print Ent

Just say no to suits. - Piaw Na

A suit is a costume, no? I actually love wearing a suit though I hate wearing a tie. - Kelly Norton

Oh, don't get me wrong. I really like dressing up, but I put on a suit so rarely these days that it just feels fake. - Jeffrey Veen

Funerals... - Kevin Gamble

Ken Morley

Memristor minds: The future of artificial intelligence - http://www.newscientist.com/article...

July 8 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Richard pancakhaus Walker, François Dongier, Rick Kaiser and 13 other people liked this

"Four interconnected things, mathematics says, can be related in six ways. Charge and current, and magnetic flux and voltage, are connected through their definitions. That's two. Three more associations correspond to the three traditional circuit elements. A resistor is any device that, when you pass current through it, creates a voltage. For a given voltage a capacitor will store a certain amount of charge. Pass a current through an inductor, and you create a magnetic flux. That makes five. Something missing?" - Ken Morley from Bookmarklet

7 more comments

"Chua set about exploring what this device would do. It was something that no combination of resistors, capacitors and inductors would do. Because moving charges make currents, and changing magnetic fluxes breed voltages, the new device would generate a voltage from a current rather like a resistor, but in a complex, dynamic way. In fact, Chua calculated, it would behave like a resistor that could "remember" what current had flowed through it before." - Ken Morley

Let me be the first to welcome our mechanical overlords. - Lo

What's shocking to me is how little press memristors get, when they're not exactly new, and I find them incredibly exciting. When you think about how fundamentally inefficient our current methods of implementing memory are, you can realize how, with just a bit of technological advancement, computers could be leaps and bounds more effective just by utilizing this new electrical element. I mean, I know they're still not ready to be used in any practical way, but this is cool stuff! - Brad Greer

Brad, it's cool until we make mechanical minds even approaching the complexity & power of human minds... they'd be a lot faster (speed of neuro transmissions = much slower than electricity), and somehow I don't think humanity would fare well in a strictly logical judgment. It's funny how many "mechanical overlord" stories there are in fiction, because it's turning out to be actually... more... - Lo

I love the serendipity: "The resistance in different switches behaved in a way that was impossible to predict using any conventional model. Williams was stumped. It took three years and a chance tip-off from a colleague about Chua's work before the revelation came. "I realised suddenly that the equations I was writing down to describe our device were very similar to Chua's,Then everything fell into place." - Ken Morley

Lo, I believe the first time I heard of them was alumni weekend a couple years ago, so you may have been part of that very conversation. As for mechanical minds being scary, I imagine my ridiculous Vulcan brain makes me an apt choice for "robot sympathizer" so I don't really worry about it. If they can do what we can do more efficiently and/or with less misery inflicted, I say more [DC] power to them. As one person appropriately put it: "The technological singularity is like the Rapture for computer nerds" - Brad Greer

Maybe Google can use this to build SkyNet Chrome OS, or HAL Chrome OS 9000 ;) - Bogdan Costea

Well, Brad, if you can be cavalier about the potential violent destruction of mankind, so can I. People are cool, but no cooler than anything else. Tangent: I'm so curious about your Vulcan mind and what's happened to you since college, but I don't know a non-awkward way to bring it up. So why not here?! Or maybe I'll e-mail or something... - Lo

Lokei Atikus™® to Lokei's feed, Funny Pics and Videos

Penis Slippers - http://www.evilmilk.com/picture...

June 15 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

jandark, Niranjan, HealingBrush and 6 other people liked this

A design inspired by Brad Williamson. - Lokei Atikus™® from Bookmarklet

7 more comments

You should share this in the ART ROOM - Brad Williamson

LOL - YoYo_P

Still waiting for the BBD (Big-Black-Dude) version ... size 10, please. - Kittyburgers

but, why? - Morgan Haley

oh you know, for effing around the house. - Lokei Atikus™®

omg thats wacky lol I dont think I would wear those slippers.. - David Gross

O.o - Danny Minick

Don't make me kick ya now, you know what I'm wearing! - Bogdan Costea

Fa La La La Lindsay

What is a movie that you think was better than the book? For those of you who have read the book and watched the movie, has there ever been a movie version you consider better than the written one?

July 9 - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, Joe Pierce, Adrian and 4 other people liked this

The Godfather. - Kevin Pedraja

17 more comments

Blade Runner is better than Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?. - josh neff, geek at large

Jaws - Theron Kelso

James and the Giant Peach. - Admiral Anika

"Stand By Me" was better than "The Body". - Nine

Not sure it's fair to compare a movie to the short story that inspired it. - Daniel J. Pritchett

DeepThroat - It just didn't work on the page - Matthew DeVries

Godfather and Stand by Me are awesome choices! - George Smith

Bladerunner, Johny Mnemonic - Bogdan Costea

The Hunt for Red October; Casino Royale (2006) - Kevin Shaum

The Shining - Christopher A Carr from Android

Only one film based on a P.K. Dick book has been remotely close to the Dick story...so apples and oranges there, I think. - Christopher A Carr

Dune - Alex Scoble

The Green Mile - Heather Solos

Steven King should give up novels and write screen plays. - Christopher A Carr

As long as he stays away from directing, I agree. :) - Alex Scoble

I Robot................... ok, not really - Adrian

What, no votes for "The Passion of the Christ"? - Daniel J. Pritchett

@Alex Scooble: Dune, come on, ALL Dune movies sucked compared to the first two Dune books (ignore all other books except for the original 2 books) - Bogdan Costea

Bogdan Costea

@alex_morega dap, python are tot, in afara de real lambdas, switch si documentatie locala (te saturi sa cauti pe net la un moment dat).eh...

July 9 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Ignore my Romanian gibberish... - Bogdan Costea

Duncan Riley

Neither funny nor cute: Evian Roller Baby ad - http://www.inquisitr.com/28705...

July 9 from The Inquisitr - Comment - Like - Share

Bogdan Costea liked this

Clever though........... - Kevin J Hatton

The rendering is sooooo last year - Bogdan Costea

Bogdan Costea › Comments