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Jason Griffey › Likes
A Response to Stephen Abram and SirsiDynix - http://loomware.typepad.com/loomwar...
Richard Akerman, Mr. Gunn, Walt Crawford and 8 other people liked this
hah! give 'im hell, Mark!
- D0r0th34
Love this: "This messy, difficult thing is called innovation, and while it can cause angst for those who prefer stable dysfunctionality,"
- Polly Potter
I am eagerly awaiting Stephen's reply. I love ping pong!
- mita
Is some clever person out there compiling a list of all the responses? 'Cause I was just thinking I should do that, but perhaps someone has already started.
- laura x
Code4Lib is: http://wiki.code4lib.org/index...
- lris
See, I *knew* someone would be on top of this. Or several someones. Thanks!
- laura x
Help! Beatles - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Nia, Jason Griffey, Michael W. May and 3 other people liked this
My favorite Beatles song!
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
The New LSW Vimeo Account on Vimeo - http://vimeo.com/7476513
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Deborah Fitchett, cecily, Kirsten and 9 other people liked this
Upload your librarish videos to our Vimeo account. Login vimeo@shoversandmakers.net/notala
- Steve is older than ever
from Bookmarklet
And after dissing YouTube, Vimeo isn't making a thumbnail image. My playback was choppy, but that could be my connection.
- Steve is older than ever
I often have this issue with Vimeo
- marthalib
It came up after another short wait.
- Steve is older than ever
Oh, and when Josh is back from gallivanting around with Royce and Mary Carmen and all, we can ask him to add the Vimeo feed to this room.
- Steve is older than ever
I just heard Steve talking!
- JSNFLMNG
I couldn't stop staring at my own nostrils.
- Steve is older than ever
they are lovely nostrils indeed
- marthalib
Neat idea, Steve. :) I love Vimeo's interface, but I have that same problem with thumbnails and I wish Vimeo did mobile as well as YouTube does. I'm on Vimeo at http://vimeo.com/davidlrothman (mostly home video of Simon). :)
- David Rothman (☤)
I can't believe I got it all done, three hours before my T&P packet turns into a pumpkin.
Jason Griffey, Jason Huebel, josh neff, Fun Dip of FF and 2 other people liked this
Awesome. Party time!
- Linda Crook
You know we're putting cover sheets on all of our T&P packets now. Did you put a cover sheet on your T&P packet?
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
OMG, I am going to steal your red stapler AND kill your printer, Josh!
- Kaijsa Calkins
DailyPic 10/31: Happy Halloween, Internet - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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Jàson Puçkett, Yolanda, Josh Haley and 5 other people liked this
Yowza!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
um. ah.
- DJF
*laughs* I was going out! Dressed as NOT RESPONSIBLE JENICA. :P
- Jenica
That's not how "not responsible jenica" dressed in Montreal. Although that's probably a good thing.
- DJF
Was irresponsible Jenica irresponsible?
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
nah, just had a few drinks, talked to friends, danced, and ate a slice of takeout pizza. Fun, though. :)
- Jenica
open argument 101 - http://www.newrambler.net/lisdom...
Catherine Pellegrino, Cameron Neylon, Kathryn says love n peace and 9 other people liked this
Laura, one thing I like about this post and love about your writing in general is that you write like an essayist and not like a PR flack. You admit and expose ambiguities and uncertainties and don't always try and wrap them up in a neat package or position.
- Steve is older than ever
Stephen Abram just commented on the post, if anyone's curious.
- laura x
Oh, I'm going to regret posting this one. (prompted by: http://friendfeed.com/marycar...)
Kamilah Gill, tinypants - Hagitha of FF, adf and 20 other people liked this
OK, I nearly fell out of my chair over this one.
- cecily
Shout! Shout! Shout at the Devil!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
*dies*
- lris
*buys Steve an ice cream*
- Derrick
LOVE
- Mary Carmen
hands Steve a glass of Ice Water.
- Scott
Since Wikileaks is overloaded, let's try this again. Stephen Abram's thoughts on Open Source ILSs.
Laura Norvig, Kirsten, josh neff, Fun Dip of FF and 3 other people liked this
O.M.G.
- laura x
In case you were wondering, "Proprietary software has more features. Period. Proprietary software is much more user-friendly" (p. 6). I also call your attention to the completely information-less graphs on page 4. Now, I'm not saying the whole thing is bogus, but, um, yeah. A whole lot of it is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- lris
My favorite line so far is "From the point of view of the end user, the ILS workflows and the Online Public Access Catalogue (OPAC) are invisible and are truly adaptable to the Internet." (p. 5) Edited to add: That would be the SirsiDynix ILS and OPAC. I would think that something that was "truly adaptable to the Internet" would have permalinks, but what do I know?
- laura x
I just shake my head... it's all I can do...
- holly
"We certify some third parties using actual tests to ensure that the customer experience is as seamless as possible."
- laura x
ohhhh, it is to laugh.
- holly
"more user-friendly" - Mwahahahaha!!! Laura, re permalinks (and also accessibility to search engines), at LIANZA09 Tim Spalding said that libraries shouldn't worry about Web 2.0 until they'd figured out Web 1.0. :-)
- Deborah Fitchett
my favourite bit is where Cliff Lynch calls GA PINES Evergreen development one of "the stupidest strategies ever undertaken" and doesn't cite his source. ah....
- Tara Robertson
Comedy. Gold.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Also, it amuses me that the last page of the document is all contact information for SirsiDynix sales reps.
- laura x
Ok, gang...I've scraped the text of this thing, and have it as a Google Doc for markup/corrective purposes. If you want to help annotate, email me your preferred google docs email address and I'll add you: griffey at gmail
- Jason Griffey
*riles*
- Steve is older than ever
from iPod
Reading it some more, it's clearly *not* an authoritative study of OSS vs. proprietary software, it's an infomercial aimed at selling Sirsi-Dynix products to customers.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
The single oddest thing about this to me is the photo of the Asian woman with the braids at the bottom of each page next to Abram's name.
- Steve is older than ever
Some S-D customer should sue them because THAT IS NOT WHAT STEPHEN ABRAM LOOKS LIKE!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Iris, I am half-tempted to go through the entire document and put [needs citation] (à la Wikipedia) everywhere it needs one...
- Laura H.
Laura, DO EEEET!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
oh my. i am no longer at a sirsidynix library, but i did attend the final codi (customers of dynix inc) conference in salt lake city in 2006, where we heard great pronouncements from the company about horizon 8/corinthian at the same time we were hearing worrisome rumblings from libraries on the leading edge of the rollout -- the prelude to a spectacular flameout that is still smoldering in a courtroom in new york. all i can think about are glass houses and rocks.
- Luke Rosenberger
There are lots of things to find hilarious about this screed, but for me, the cake is entirely taken by the ubiquitous asian woman.
- lris
Iris, you crack me up! Love the name and avatar!
- DO ANYBODY NO Laura B.
Iris, you are the awesomest!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Iris FTW.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Nice costume, Iris.
- marthalib
Boo!
- lris
We use Sirsi in my system and frankly, it's crap. Our catalog is crap. There are so many bugs that can't seem to be fixed. Something goes down on a weekly basis. I wish we'd go over to Evergreen or something like that. When I have to educate the students on how to use a catalog that is so unfriendly, something is seriously wrong. And now we're changing our catalog again. Ugh. Sirsi can go to hell imo.
- Jill is sugar free
Iris, his last name is "Abram", actually.
- DJF
Thanks, David. :-)
- lris
Iris, you are pure gold.
- Tara Robertson
That pdf makes total sense to me... of course, I only saw the picture of Iris on each page, but hey, why not?
- Aaron the Librarian
:-D
- lris
An homage to the SirsiDynix on Open Source graph.
Rachel Walden, DO ANYBODY NO Laura B., Kirsten and 9 other people liked this
See the doc posted here: http://ff.im/aIJNr page 4
- Steve is older than ever
I should note that this illustrates concepts, not actual numbers.</wackytalk>
- Steve is older than ever
I love you, Steve.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
like is an understatement, love this.
- Tara Robertson
Cliff Lynch supports me in unspecified documents.
- Steve is older than ever
and, who is the Asian woman in the footer? wtf?
- Tara Robertson
Hush, y'all. Don't you know we're not supposed to question our profession's attempts at tokenization...er... diversity?
- cecily
I find the entire design hysterical. Not just the ubiquitous, random Asian woman, but the whole official report template they use, which is obviously intended to make this screed appear more credible, official and objective. Pish posh, we are not so easily fooled.
- marthalib
yeah, trying to pull an Australasian Journal of ILS Studies on *librarians* is kinda goofy.
- D0r0th34
Anna Lynn M., laura x, D0r0th34 and 20 other people liked this
DOESN'T ANYONE SCREEN THESE POSTS?
- Steve is older than ever
Steve, if you can't control your tone of voice, I'm going to have to ask Jenica to ban you.
- DJF
David, I think you'd have to take that up with the Online Interactions Committee.
- lris
The policy clearly states that I'm allowed up to five words in all caps per thread.
- Steve is older than ever
BUT BUT...someone might say something THAT WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR. What if they tell us our service sucks? User feedback? HELL TO THE NAW.
- Sarah G.
Moderators, meh, but people to guide and build communities? For sure. Not being at ILI, I haven't a clue of the context from which you Tweet, however :)
- Fiona Bradley
But what if a patron types FUCK?
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
*clutches pearls* JOSH NEFF JUST TYPED THE WORD FUCK. OH CRAP. NOW I DID TOO. *faints*
- Sarah G.
hahaha, i'm glad i'm not the only one that gets irritated by the librarian's obsession w/ moderation
- Ed Summers
i am going to report you all to the proper authorities.
- Free?
I love walking away for a few hours and coming back to hysteria. BECAUSE THERE ARE NO MODERATORS OMGWTFBBQ
- Jenica
It's pining for the days when we were the gatekeepers, really.
- John Fink
unsubscribe.
- Marie is organized.
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME TOO! I thought this list was for getting articles in the place of ILL?
- Joe....
SNORT. this is much better than my session.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
(There was a moderator. She saw what was going on here, went "tch tch" and walked away.)
- Walt Crawford
Those people who whine about the people who want moderators when they can't even bother to do the research on moderators? Well, I can't really call them information professionals.
- Steve is older than ever
+5 Lawson. Can you call them haters?
- Walt Crawford
how do I unsubscribe from this list? won't someone please tell me???
- Stephanie_GoBigBlue!
Check it: Information Professional is so 2007. We're Knowledge Professionals now.
- Sarah G.
I am out of the office from October 26 through October 24, but will respond to your message when I return.
- Walt Crawford
Oct 24, 2010? Wow, you will be gone a loooonnnnnggg time.
- Joe....
That Jenica is SO off base. Can you believe her guts?? .... er- Please excuse my last post, which was not intended for the full list.
- lris
gah to all of you people asking about unsubscribing, the information is right here! http://www.microsoft.com/info...
- Sir Shuping
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!
- Rachel Singer Gordon
U GUYZ R ALL L00ZERS! I PWN U! STEVE LAWSON IS QUEER!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Geez, who let B1FF in?
- DJF
We don't need to regulate online social spaces. We need to regulate Joshua M. Neff, who is a jerkface.
- Steve is older than ever
ths cmmnt hs bn dsmvwlld
- D0r0th34
Dorothea just made me literally laugh out loud! (I once had a comment disemvowelled on Boing Boing.)
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
I love librarians.
- DJF
Friends/ I have started a New Online Community / Blog / Clearing House / Sewing Circle to discuss this Important Matter. Look for it on Facebook / Ning / Orkut / IRC. /Steve
- Steve is older than ever
This is now my favorite thread of the day, and I'm not even a librarian.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
God I love librarians. :)
- Jenica
Thread drift! Somebody rename the subject line so that we can talk about the awesomeness of this thread separately from this thread. Really, people, can't we keep it orderly around here?! You all know the rules!
- D0r0th34
Iris, I was going to say the same thing. I don't know why Jenica started this ... oh wait, that really happened to me today. so nice to lol!!
- Stephanie_GoBigBlue!
Um, ALA promised me a job as a moderator. LIARS! They owe me a career.
- Steve is older than ever
Steve, I have more degrees than you do. I don't care if you have more library experience. Giving you that job instead of me would be SO UNFAIR.
- lris
Iris, but it's been 10 years and i STILL havent gotten a job with my mls. It's MY turn to get that job! *whine*
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
Please make sure to do a keyword search of the archives to review policies on unsubscribing, disemvowelling and moderator job requirements...
- Abigail
Please do not keep responding to the whole message. Those of us reading the digest are a bit overwhelmed.
- laura x
hey this is relevant to 5 other lists so please cross post all future responses to those list also
- Sir Shuping
I hope this thread makes Best of Week.
- Spidra Webster
aren't we talking about moderators in online communities? I think we've drifted from the original thread here, people.
- Stephanie_GoBigBlue!
best of the week? i think this is one of the best of the month!
- Sir Shuping
woo-hoo I won the thread! IN YOUR FACE, LAWSON! YOU TOO, NEFF! :P :P :P oh, wait, did I send that to everybody? ooooooops...
- D0r0th34
*looks around* NAZIS! *runs away*
- Jason Griffey
we should change this list so it doesn't Reply All. really.
- Stephanie_GoBigBlue!
*comment redacted by moderator*
- DO ANYBODY NO Laura B.
omg censorship! anti-constitutional violation of rights! I'm calling my lawyer!
- Deborah Fitchett
Dammit, Griffey just Godwined this thread!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Stephanie, this is clearly a user-education issue. list replies work very well 98% of the time. It's the people who don't take a couple of seconds to check the header before they hit send that are causing all the problems here.
- DJF
This is why computers are a bad idea.
- Steve is older than ever
Andrew Keen was right!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Wow. Go for a walk and you miss a lot... But, Steve up above, you lack ! a Sufficient \ Number / of Important! Exciting = Current Punctuation Elements. Oh, and the text is all one color. What's up with that? I'll start six wikis and ten blogs to figure it out...
- Walt Crawford
It's reprehensible for an information professional to use Comic Sans.
- laura x
First!
- John Dupuis
Don't you guys have any WORK to do? I'm TOO BUSY to read all these emails.
- Stephanie_GoBigBlue!
from iPhone
I don't think we should exclude people from this online community just because they can't think of anything witty to say. That strikes me as highly unwelcoming and a subcommittee will be creating a geocities page to address the issue.
- Laura Norvig
(Jenica has shown great restraint in not deleting all these comments. I vote Jenica dictator^H^H^H^H^H^H^H moderator for life.)
- Steve is older than ever
me too!!!
- Tara Robertson
Does anyone have the article, "Reductionist Sexual Tendancies of the Male Northern Black-haired Scrat: Temporal Judgements and Seasonal Mating Rituals," Journal of Neoclassical Biological Systematics, 145(3):9952-9976? ScienceDirect is telling me I owe them $30... Could you please send me a PDF?
- Joe....
I reiterate, I love librarians.
- Jenica
Steve and Walt > || _ Genius! / _||
- Fiona Bradley
agreed. > I don't think we should exclude people from this online community just because they can't think of anything > witty to say. That strikes me as highly unwelcoming and a >subcommittee will be creating a geocities page to address the issue. > Wow. Go for a walk and you miss a lot... But, Steve up above, you lack ! > a Sufficient \ Number / of Important! Exciting = Current...
more...
- Stephanie_GoBigBlue!
Me as Zac Efron - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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RAPatton, James Ferguson, midnightgolfer and 3 other people liked this
hahaha!! That's too much!
- JA Castillo
Ha
- Jerry Perez
I had to Google to find out who Zac Efron is. So I don't get teh funny here. :(
- Otto
I think I just turned gay. :D
- ChiliMac
You people, yes, all of you, are incredibly fucking awesome.
Vezquex: God of FF, Thomas Hawk, tinypants - Hagitha of FF and 50 other people liked this
you're the awesome one!
- Sir Shuping
Takes one to know one!
- Mellissa Jane
NO, YOU'RE AWESOME :o) cute too lol
- David Gross
I like to think I learned it from the FriendFeed people ;D
- Colette
No, YOU are! :-D
- vicster
So nice of someone to finally notice. ;-)
- Got Love For DB™?
from iPod
I KNOW YOU ARE, BUT WHAT AM I?
- Glen Campbell
We're rubber and you're glue...
- LogEx
Right back at ya!
- David Cook
Being English, can I be 'Really quite good'?
- Pete
Damn straight!
- Ruchira S. Datta
Pete: "quite" is a bit strong, no? How about just "rather good"?
- Ruchira S. Datta
Yes, I see your point there. 'Jolly decent'?
- Pete
Mary Carmen, you are the very awesomeness you describe. :)
- Holly Rae, FFer
ditto! :)
- Tofu De la Moore
from BuddyFeed
Just glad you are doing ok. Can't wait to meet you at the Brick-n-click.
- Joe....
What Joe said!
- Galadriel C.
All you Friday rockers have a fangirl.
Jason Huebel, laura x, Mary Carmen and 29 other people liked this
Iris, I love ya, darlin'!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Iris wins.
- DO ANYBODY NO Laura B.
*waits for Iris to throw her copy of the new APA on stage, with URL of her Libguides tucked inside*
- Rochelle Rochelle
I want to double-like this.
- Jason Griffey
I think all librarians should have this as their desktop image. :)
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
If you post a rocker picture, I'd be your fangirl too, Griffey. #nopressure_yeahright
- lris
I was going to say that Iris needed to post a rocker picture herself, but then I remembered that she is out in front of this trend as usual, and in fact hands out rocker photos of herself to her fans all the time: https://apps.carleton.edu/campus...
- Steve is older than ever
can someone help? my eyes just rolled so hard I think they got stuck.
Rachel Singer Gordon, Slavomira Vladimirova, Kol Tregaskes and 28 other people liked this
Snarky Holly is jaded.
- holly
*yawn* *changes the channel*
- Mary Carmen
If I'd wanted to be a rock star, I would've learned to play guitar.
- Kirsten
do rock star librarians get paid more than regular librarians? i could always go for a pay raise...how bad are the groupies?
- Sir Shuping
LOL - I hadn't considered the groupie factor. this may change my opinion! ;)
- holly
Real rock stars are, at least some of them, musicians. I'd guess the average earnings of rock musicians from rock music make library salaries look pretty good by comparison. A handful of them become rockstars--usually for a while. So, you know, be careful what you wish for.
- Walt Crawford
*sigh* *goes back to doing her job well, unconcerned with rockstar status*
- Jenica
What doofus wrote this, Holly? "Rockstar" is such a stupid metaphor. How about: "Are your librarians valued, valuable, essential resources to your community? If not, should they maybe consider wearing leather pants? Hmmmm?" Doofus.
- David Rothman (☤)
I cant afford the hookers and blow it takes to be a rockstar...
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
Interesting that the meaning behind the question is being obfuscated with the snark...
- Aaron the Librarian
librarians are not rockstars. They are (in the PL) municipal employees: underpaid, overworked, and the brunt of everyone's complaints. Much of this also holds in the academic world, although I have found there to be fewer complaints in the academy.
- DJF
I am a rockstar, but not when I'm at work.
- Kendra K
kendra *is* a rockstar. truth.
- holly
To prove this, I will have a Thee Kendrak Attack Performance at IL.
- Kendra K
WOO!
- holly
Aaron: I think the snark uncovers something here--"rockstar status" may not be ideal or even what you're looking for. Valued contributors aren't usually rockstars...
- Walt Crawford
So you are saying I *shouldn't* install a pyrotechnic display behind the reference desk?
- Steve is older than ever
Steve, make sure to chain all the firedoors closed before you set the display off, to get the maximum effect.
- DJF
Students love our fog machine.
- Kendra K
The "rockstar" language that we often see is funny to me since rockstars seem to have less and less cultural currency anyway.There are pop stars, and there are quasi-indie pseudo-stars like Radiohead. But the idea of the "rock star" as the guy in the leather pants with the groupies and the eye makeup and the half-hour drum solo--those guys are dinosaurs. So the last thing we want to be should be rock stars. Gee, this is like a blog post.
- Steve is older than ever
Steve, you make an excellent point. How many people actually want that sort of thing anyhow? This weekend I hung out with the "rockstars" of my youth, and their appeal didn't come from leather pants or mega drum solos, but from an amazing attitude and energy and some amazing songs. That's what I want to emulate. Now, I'll never be the Operation Ivy of the library world, or even Rancid, but what about Common Rider or Schlong?
- Kendra K
If we are rock stars does that mean we have to wear leather pants? If so, count me out!
- Bobbi Newman
The only rockstars in librarianship are the Dutch Boys. That's because they have accents, leather jackets and groupies.
- Rochelle Rochelle
And they travel around the country in a van and are a little older than you might expect.
- Steve is older than ever
Kendra, if I could be the Cometbus of libraries, I'd be a very happy man.
- Steve is older than ever
I think you're not far off. I don't know who I'd want to be. Not really Jesse Michaels, not Dr Frank, I'll go for my gut and my heart and want to be the Dallas Denery of the library world. It's totally achievable.
- Kendra K
I'm a studio player. No fame, but a moderately steady paycheque.
- DJF
Not too hard to guess, Steve. I know my age peers when I see 'em.
- Rochelle Rochelle
And, you know, not all of us are wildly in love with the Dutch Boys. (Ducks and runs away.)
- Walt Crawford
no need to run away, Walt. that is a-okay in my thread!
- holly
we need more rockstars in education, seriously.. we need people who can do their jobs amazingly, achieve impact and influence our wider system
- Holly Rae, FFer
Clothing Line: "Break the mold join the rock star librarian movement!" http://www.zazzle.com/rocksta...
- JSNFLMNG
Jason, that makes me think of "you are unique, just like everyone else."
- ǎňňǎ
totally: everyone can be a rockstar librarian 9if you wear our clothes)
- JSNFLMNG
to me, it just smacks of TRYING TOO HARD. all of this rockstar stuff does.
- holly
Nancy Pearl: "The original RockStar Librarian" http://bookchase.blogspot.com/2007...
- JSNFLMNG
Cynthia Wilson =Rockstar Librarian http://www.myspace.com/iamalib...
- JSNFLMNG
Ok, going back on myself a little: I like a little rockstar now and then. And the Dutch guys seem like pretty decent ones. They give real interviews where they give their subjects time to talk. They seem to get librarians generally feeling good about libraries and the work we do. I'm eating meringue cookies as I type this: I can't live on meringue cookies, but I don't have to.
- Steve is older than ever
that's cool, Steve. I know lotsa people like 'em, they just don't do it for me. kinda like cilantro. and licorice.
- holly
First of all, unless you're Prince, you need to type out y-o-u, not the letter U. Second of all... yeah. I've got nothing beyond that.
- cecily
HOW AWESOME WOULD IT BE IF THAT *WAS* PRINCE?
- Steve is older than ever
Well, I was running away to logoff and get lunch. To clarify: Not in love with means what it says. I see what they're doing, they seem like decent folks...but I also noticed the way they managed to treat apparently-non-rockstars as invisible in at least one social setting, navigating automatically to The Hot Folks. Which is OK, but doesn't require my admiration. But, as you suggest, nothing wrong with rockstars...once in a while.
- Walt Crawford
This is from David Lee King who I DO like, and who I like more than other people who I would have expected to say something like this (and who will remain nameless).
- Mike
David Rothman - I'm the doofus who wrote this. Cool - lots of interesting comments for my impending blog post!
- David Lee King
DLK makes me laugh out loud ;)
- JSNFLMNG
Remember, I am the Dallas Denery of the library world - obscure but brilliant, with a fair amount of self deprecation.
- Kendra K
Oh sheesh people. Some of you are deleting your comments! Get real.
- David Lee King
oh seriously? lame.
- holly
quick.. cache... too late.. didn't think to take a screenshot sorry
- JSNFLMNG
<threadjack>Holly just HAD to drag cilantro into this, didn't you?</threadjack>
- Miriella
No, wait - it's back. That was odd. Sorry - false alarm (very glad for that, too).
- David Lee King
oh good. AND YOU KNOW I DID, MERRY. and I'd do it again ;)
- holly
<threadjack>Holly's hatred of Cilantro is a perfectly valid comment</threadjack>
- JSNFLMNG
OK - my goal with the tweet was to ... well ... get a reaction. Which I apparently did. Yay for me.
- David Lee King
Haters.
- Miriella
But here's what I mean - my library's communication specialist originally said this when a ref lib was worried that something was a bit too much about her (meaning her name and pic were attached). Cm Spec said "yep - my goal is to make YOU the rockstar, not me."
- David Lee King
Meaning - our librarians ARE (well, or should be) a valued resource in the community. Let's take that 1 step further - have people ask for us, want to follow our writing in our library blog posts, want to attend our classes, etc.
- David Lee King
I've heard a manager tell an employee they were a rockstar before (but it kind of sounded like a derogative statement) -as in you put yourself too far out there on the stage.-and- yo should try to do more workwork instead
- JSNFLMNG
people don't friend brands or books. They friend people. Interesting people. People who call each other doofuses (oh wait - silly barb alert). Want your library to start getting noticed in your town? Start getting out, doing stuff, letting people know your names, etc.
- David Lee King
Lester Public Library's director does that - he's got a column in their local newspaper! People know him.
- David Lee King
So that's where I was headed with those thoughts. Now, you can continue rolling eyes if you need to :-)
- David Lee King
pssshaw...let me show you how to be a Rockstar Librarian. You can help me trash my room in a drunken blackout at CiL.
- Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock
woooooooooo \m/ \m/
- holly
who's gonna the gg allin of librarians? this community needs that sort of rebel.
- Kendra K
DLK, here's my actual, sincere response: As a librarian, I don't want to be a rockstar, to be ogled from afar and immortalized on an impossible pedestal for doing flashy, sexy things. I want to be respected, valued, and appreciated for the real contributions that I make to my community, and remembered for those things. Alternately, I'd like to be Angelina Jolie. Either would be fine.
- Jenica
i'm more of a superhero in my community, rather than a rockstar: http://orgmonkey.net/?p=696
- Marie is organized.
Jenica - that's fair. And I think that there's a large group of librarians that want that. There are others who would rather the community focused on the library's resources, rather than on them personally. And that's just wrong, because the librarian is an amazing resource for the community.
- David Lee King
Hi David! Reading over this, I feel pretty good about my contribution. Certain libraries in certain communities may need a "rock star"--someone who looks good on TV, who can sum up what the library is about in a memorable chorus. In my community, I think the more down-to-earth, DIY punk/hippie thing is a better way to think about it--someone you can share a joke with, ask a stupid question of, someone who will say "wow, I have no idea how to answer your question! That's neat!"
- Steve is older than ever
I don't know that it's "just wrong," David. The library is bigger than I am. It was here before I came along & it will be here after I go. I think I'm a pretty cool guy, but honestly, the library & all of my coworkers are much better resources than I am. Yes, I would rather the focus be on my library & everyone who works here than on me.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Josh - that's cool. But even then, you are focusing on the people rather than on the stuff, which is what I'm getting at.
- David Lee King
Well, it's both. I mean, we're all good resources, but so are our books, DVDs, periodicals, databases, etc. Plus our comfy seating, our public computers, our wifi. It's the whole shebang.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Steve - that works. Someone else said "I'm more of a superhero" above, and Jenica said "valued contributor of community" ... Again, just thinking out loud, but I think some of this is similar to what I'm meaning. It's quite possible that using "rockstar" pushed some buttons (I'm apparently good at that sometimes).
- David Lee King
Josh - B&N has that. Except for the databases. What's the diff?
- David Lee King
Heh, that you are! Naw, I get it--the question seems to be "are your librarians active and known as librarians in your community, and how important is that?" And if you don't know the diff between B&N and the library, I can't help you.
- Steve is older than ever
Ye - that's what I'm sayin. And yes, I DO know the diff. But I think it's the librarians that make the difference. We arrange the stuff, we help find it, we teach about it, etc. A library's much more than it's stuff, I think.
- David Lee King
David, I've worked for Borders & I've worked for public libraries, & I guarantee, it's not just the librarians that make them two different places to work or patronize.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Wondering if I'm more of a Keith Emerson (cult ultratalented prog-rocker) than a Keith Richards (mega-superstar).
- Mike
You got me there Josh - I've never worked there. Just know two people now who have or did. Interestingly, the other one plays bass in local KC bands ... and wants to become a librarian, too. ohshootIbroughtitbacktotherockstarsagain!
- David Lee King
DLK: like a church is much more than the building people worship in and the book they read out of? A pastor (insert religious figurehead here) can fire up a church, and members of the church can be beacons of kindness etc... and it is more of a community of information sharing/gathering working together in unison
- JSNFLMNG
Jason - yep - that's a good analogy, too. Wow. So far, we have rockstars, superheroes, pastors, and valued contributors. And doofuses.
- David Lee King
Rock n' roll library http://www.librarystuff.net/2009...
- Mike
I think it's the mission of the library and the mission of the bookstore that make them so different. Competent people in each can make both of them important parts of the community. Yes, we think more of Powells or the Tattered Cover or something when we think of a bookstore as a valued member of the community, but I think a chain store in a town that hasn't had a decent bookstore can...
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- Steve is older than ever
Speaking of which, I am going to the Tattered Cover tonight for a book signing...
- Joe....
Besides librarians (rockstar & non-rockstar), libraries offer access to free information & entertainment, free literacy resources, free classes, free internet access (not just wifi, but computers for those who don't have their own) & free space. I worked at Borders while I was in library school & right after I graduated. No matter how much of a librarian I was at heart & in behavior,...
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- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Josh - I get that. Really, I do. You say "I believe in the mission of libraries & what they have to offer a community." My earlier thought was this - One thing libraries DO have that they tend to not focus on much (or market) is their staff. We tend to promote the class & the resource before we promote the person behind the class or resource. So I agree with you, but I'm thinking about it from a different angle right now.
- David Lee King
If I hadn't just finished the first draft of an absurdly long Making it Work/Philosophy essay, I'd be tempted to snatch this whole thread for use there...some really good stuff being said here. (I grew up Methodist, and if we had rockstar ministers, they'd be snatched away by other congregations with greater pull at the Conference level, where assignments were made...)
- Walt Crawford
I have to think most everyone here's right. I want to be the earnest contributor, but a large part of my job as director is to be The Voice and The Face. We have to humanize our services as much as we have to build good services...
- Jenica
David, can you tell me which libraries are keeping their staff hidden? Because every library I've worked at has had staff doing community outreach & regular patrons who got to know which staff member was good at what. If you look at my library's website, you'll see staff promoted all over the place. Now, most libraries I've been at have promoted services & collections *first*, but you...
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- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Good points, Jenica. You are right :-)
- David Lee King
Josh - well, your library is an exception, cause y'all rock (oops - sorry about that :-). I haven't seen many libraries hide librarians (though I do know some, and won't name them) ... but I HAVE seen plenty of librarians hide themselves. Hide themselves behind their stuff, their fears of standing in front of people, their fears of being known (even in my library, just the fact that we...
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- David Lee King
Oh sure, I've seen that, too. Putting pics of our staff up on our website wasn't met with universal enthusiasm. But not everyone *wants* to be in the spotlight. Not everyone *wants* to be a rockstar. Is that really a problem?
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Well ... yeah. I DO think that's a problem. And here's how I'd spin that - a library wants to go in a new direction. Change their name, put faces, names, etc on the website. Go out in the community to attract people to the library and it's stuff (I'm thinking of my recent trip to anythink libraries in the denver area here). If some staff aren't on board ... well, they're not meeting the...
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- David Lee King
Interesting. I have long said that I don't think everyone has to be a "2.0 librarian" or whatever you want to call it, but that everyone does have to accept that libraries are changing and the status quo won't last long. So they don't all have to be guitar heroes, but if the library is going that way, they don't have the right to undermine those kinds of people and programs once they are in place.
- Steve is older than ever
I think several of you have made excellent points. I agree with DLKing that libraries need to be as present in their communities as possible, though I would argue that there are different "rockstar curves" (if I may coin a pointless phrase) for different libraries, in the sense that some libraries may have every staff member interacting regularly and thoroughly with the public. Others...
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- Louise Alcorn
In response to something Josh said, I've really struggled here with some of our staff, who are technically front-line staff, but who, given the opportunity, will keep from interacting with the public except at a bare minimum. A pleasant minimum, but still less than we could do. This is not unusual in libraries, as far as I can tell from what I hear from my colleagues. It takes a really...
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- Louise Alcorn
I'm certainly not arguing that working on the "front lines" isn't a public service job. But why, exactly, is it a problem if some staff don't want to be "rockstars"? I mean, I understand, David, that you think it's a problem. I just don't see *why* you think it's a problem. As long as they're not undermining the other staff, as Steve said, what's the problem with having some staff who...
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- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Why? I'll try to answer. I think that "quietly doing their jobs" = complacency and falling into a traditional rut, which = death for the library. Never a good thing - in libraries, in any industry. The book Good to Great talks about that. But I also agree with Louise - this depends on the library and their goals. I also like what she said about "audience." I read somewhere that in a...
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- David Lee King
Wow. That makes me sad. Quietly & effectively doing your job is "complacency & falling into a traditional rut"? And that means "death for the library"? I don't see that at all. I certainly don't think that the key to library success is "be more like me."
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Just telling you what lots and lots of librarians have told me. For them, "quietly doing their jobs" = no one stepping up to the plate to do the next thing (whatever that thing is) or (even worse) hoping no one notices them so they can minimally function at their job then go home. Effectively? Not sure you CAN be effective AND quiet... depends on what you mean by quiet. Doesn't share ideas at meetings? Doesn't ever have new ideas but still answers questions? What do you mean by quiet and effective?
- David Lee King
See, when I think "rock star", I think about the librarians who have lots of speaking/preso gigs, or a whole lot of exposure beyond their community base, and that the quiet & effective folks we're mentioning just do their jobs and dont go on the circuit as much. And the quiet and ineffective ones need to go or be retrained. But that's my understanding.
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
I mean not putting yourself in the spotlight, not acting like the fish dudes, but when a patron comes in needing help, you help them. When something needs to be done, you do it, not with a lot of flash, you just get it done. If you have ideas, you share them, but what if you don't have any ideas? At my library, I see a lot of good, qualified people who do their jobs but don't make a lot...
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- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Sometimes "great" is "coming up with a brilliant new way of doing something." And sometimes "great" is "cleaning up puke, because goddammit, someone needs to do it."
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Maybe I read your "quiet and effective" statement wrong. Sorry if I did! We might be talking about 2 different things here. Hope so! If they're quiet, and do their jobs well - that's wonderful. I'm certainly not meaning everyone has to be an extrovert! Heck, I'm a huge wallflower. But if they're quiet and don't speak up at a meeting (part of their job IS participating at a meeting) but then complaining about it later... that's something else entirely.
- David Lee King
And I agree with your "puke" thing - in both cases, the person went the extra mile.
- David Lee King
Of course, David, but I didn't think by "rockstar" you meant "someone who speaks up in meetings, instead of staying quiet but grumbling about it later."
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
My point was, just because you're not a "rockstar" in your community doesn't mean you're a bad librarian.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
DLK- A doofusy thing is a doofusy thing, no matter who says it. Everyone says 'em. The internet just makes 'em widespread and permanent. I'd like to add that if your ambition as a LIS talking head is to evoke reaction, I strongly suggest pursuing more useful and meaningful ambitions. Your constant message seems to be "do more, be better," - and I love that- but the way that you sometimes say it (hyperbole, radical oversimplification, self-promotion) spoils the appeal of the message for me.
- David Rothman (☤)
Agreed. But I also think that there's a pretty wide space between being a good librarian and being a community "rockstar" that could be explored a bit more by libraries... that's all.
- David Lee King
A couple of comments. First of all, this seems to me to be pretty well the same conversation as all those SLA/ASKPro threads. Who are and what do we do, is there and "old" way vs a "new" way.
- John Dupuis
Know what? Twitter is lousy for nuance. The role of the librarian perhaps deserves more nuance than terms like "rockstar."
- David Rothman (☤)
David Rothman - to each his own. My goal isn't to evoke reaction (though I do that). It's always been to toy with ideas in my head, to share, and to see what others think. OTher people come along for the ride, whether or not they agree, and that's cool
- David Lee King
And I must say - you didn't say "doofusy thing" - You said "what doofus wrote this, Holly?" I agree with your doofusy thing comment. The other? Not so much.
- David Lee King
Second, I think a lot of the discomfort with the Rockstar term has to do with authenticity. When we think rockstar, we think of people who are clearly deluded (ie. Ozzy) and people who are famous for the sake of being famous or who want to be rockstars to show up everyone else or just to show off. I don't think this attracts more librarians or, in fact, most people, when it comes to how they do their jobs. People want to be authentic in their public personas, not something false and uncomfortable.
- John Dupuis
John - you're right, and with my original thoughts, I wasn't going for deluded or fake! I'd just heard the statements more than once and was saying them "out loud." Yes - authenticity is hugely important - we can't be taken seriously otherwise.
- David Lee King
At the same time, it's vitally important for librarians to be deeply connected to their communities, to be involved and visible. But I think the message here is that people want to be the Laurence Lessig or Clay Shirky of their library community outreach, not the Ozzy Osbourne or the Jon & Kate.
- John Dupuis
DLK- sorry, but get over it. You say you wanted to evoke reaction. Fine, here's my reaction: it was a ridiculous thing to say. I didn't know who said it, just that it was ridiculous. I stand by that estimation. Yay! You evoked reaction- so stop portraying hurt feelings over it. If you aren't ready to receive disagreement and criticism, I strongly suggest not constantly posting your opinions online where they are subject to criticism.
- David Rothman (☤)
DLK, that's great, it's just that you're never going to evoke an image of authenticity if you're talking about rockstars. Except for maybe Springsteen, but that's another thread.
- John Dupuis
David - whatever. I disagree. No hurt feeling here - just pointing out what you said. Seriously - I love it when people disagree on my blog, in FF, in twitter, etc. But name-calling, even to anonymous people, is simply not cool. The "reaction" I meant from my original tweet was to say something and have people respond - not to see if I could get anyone riled.
- David Lee King
John - yeah, I think you're right. Interestingly, people like Clay Shirky are called rockstars...
- David Lee King
Several of the libraries I've worked with have been well served to keep some of their librarians hidden. On the other point - I totally want to be the Ozzy Osbourne of Libraryland. lmao In fact, going forward, I'd like to be referred to as the 'Prince of Darkness'. Seriously though, David, 'Rockstar' has connotations in the profession now...as in Colleen's (warmaiden's) definition. So, I think perhaps this is somewhat at the root of this long discussion. *wanders off mumbling*
- Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock
Yep, you are correct I'm thinking, oh Prince of Darkness :-) Bad choice of words on my part.
- David Lee King
David, true about Shirky, but I'm thinking more along the lines of contrasting *wanting* to be a rockstar rather than ending up as one -- although I can only guess at other people's true motivations, of course. Rev D, I was thinking more Ozzy 2009 rather than Ozzy 1975...and I'm afraid I don't know Colleen's rockstar definition -- is there a reference?
- John Dupuis
My initial reaction has nothing to do with the message, which I agree with. It's with the hackneyed use of the word "rockstar" which, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time among web/software developers, makes me want to scoop my eyes out with a white hot spoon whenever I read/hear it. I prefer Jenica's original statement. Rockstars aren't approachable. They're someone you...
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- cecily
John - it's in this thread somewhere ... look for The Archangel ωαřмaiden
- David Lee King
Cecily - nice. I like that.
- David Lee King
And I still stand by my original comment about Prince. ;-)
- cecily
DLK- Again: get over it. It was a doofusy thing to say and I didn't know who said it. I revise my original statement: "What individual said this ridiculously doofusy thing?" Better?
- David Rothman (☤)
This project - http://www.librariesincommunities.ca/ - gave rise to a new position at a couple of branches in my organization, that of a Community Liaison librarian. This person is the face of the library for many community groups, particularly those under served populations. Would they be rockstars?
- cecily
David Rothman - nothing to get over, but yeah - that's better. But really, I much prefer the name a patron called me a month or two ago - "sarcastic library nazi." That is a name worth a couple of giggles, at least :-)
- David Lee King
Cecily - wow - that's a cool project! Yes, I think that would qualify (though I'm starting to shy away from "rockstar" a bit :-). But yes - being a human, a face, an actual person... that's what I'm trying to get at, I think
- David Lee King
DLK- You seriously prefer to be called a Nazi than a doofus? Wow. Just: Wow.
- David Rothman (☤)
oh stop it. It was a joke about a stupid name someone called me who was WAY off her rocker. we chuckled about it at my lib, after everyone agreed that I'm pretty much the exact opposite of a nazi. Sheesh.
- David Lee King
I think the discussion is useful here. The level of snark and one-upsmanship some of the comments have though is frustrating. But I'd advise a few of us to take a chill right about now. Figuring out what is best for libs is what this is all about in the long run.
- Michael Porter
I'm a rock star, but I want to live like common people. I want to do whatever common people do.
- MegvMeg
*rolls eyes and goes off to hang with Holly*
- David Rothman (☤)
I want to sleep with common people. I want to sleep with common people, like you.
- Kendra K
Well, what else could I do?
- MegvMeg
I'll see what I can do.
- Kendra K
and dance, and drink, and....
- Michael Porter
because there's nothing else to do.
- Jenica
And...scene.
- Steve is older than ever
DO ANYBODY NO WHO DERRICK LIKES
- anna sauce
This thread is clear proof that FRIENDFEED IS DEAD!!!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
deader than a doornail!
- holly
OK, I thought I could close it out, but since there are more comments, I'm gonna say this: While I often disagree with David Lee King about this kind of thing--the emphases he places, the language he uses, the value of "getting reactions"--I respect that he's happy to come in here and talk about it without getting too worked up or personal about it, even when we've been snarky. I think that's pretty cool.
- Steve is older than ever
Absolutely, Steve.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
totally agree
- holly
Late to the party, but I also fully agree with Steve's last statement.
- Walt Crawford
I was gonna go with Meg FTW, but good point Steve ;)
- JSNFLMNG
I love this conversation, snark, silliness and all. P.S. I like to think of myself as a roadie. I do a lot of grunt work, but without me, the show doesn't happen. And I still get to take chicks back to my hotel. Er, dudes, whatever.
- Rochelle Rochelle
Now I'm thinking about branding. Do we want to brand ourselves as individuals or as our library? What is your point in being a rockstar? When it comes to advocacy, librarians have got to stop relying on others to advocate for us. So, in that respect, put yourself out there and be a rockstar. Let people know why you're important as a librarian and why your library is important. But in...
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- Jill is sugar free
As I said on Twitter 5 mins after DLK's post - we should be working to make our users Rock Stars, not ourselves
- Kathryn says love n peace
I wrote about this three years ago, but I'm not sure I'd write it again today. http://rochellejustrochelle.ty...
- Rochelle Rochelle
The reason I'd be a library superhero (not a rockstar) is to help advance my career, plain and simple. If I can advance my career by helping to improve the library's services, and by helping them deliver user experiences that the public enjoy using, then all the better. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with trying to get ahead by delivering stellar service. I don't think...
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- cecily
And I agree with Kathryn - it's our users who should feel like rock stars, not us.
- cecily
I'm going to be part of a panel discussion next week about students' transition from high school to college in terms of research and library skills. As the college librarian, I'll be responding to the question "Anecdotally, what skills are you surprised to learn that entering freshmen do or do not have?"
Becca, mita, Jàson Puçkett and 3 other people liked this
Any of you who work with teens or college students want to weigh in?
- Steve is older than ever
I'm surprised that less than 40% of our incoming freshmen can tell the difference between a citation for a book and a citation for a journal article. And even fewer can identify a citation to chapter in an edited volume. But that's not anecdotal. That's based on our Research Practices Survey.
- lris
Well, it backs up my anecdotal evidence. I was going to say that they simply don't get the idea of a "citation" at all, and that what you are searching (much of the time) are pointers to things rather than things.
- Steve is older than ever
Many don't know how to write a decent thesis statement.
- marthalib
General lack of grammatical skills and significant numbers of apostrophe misunderstandings (let alone how to write a logical 5 paragraph persuasive or argumentative paper)
- Aaron the Librarian
Heh. One of my biggest writing peeves is that they don't know how NOT to write a stupid 5-paragraph essay. ;-)
- lris
Lack of understanding of research as a process (vs. just asking for and getting an answer).
- Kirsten
Kirsten, agreed. I was also trying to think of a metaphor for the idea that research is something you either do first and get out of the way or do last and drop quotes into your paper. When instead, research, like writing, should be a way of thinking or something like that.
- Steve is older than ever
Most of my first year students have never been shown the index to a book, or heard that books are shelved by topic in libraries, so skimming a shelf can actually work for them.
- lris
omg, yes! They don't know how to use an index in a book, it is true!
- marthalib
Maybe it's just the local crowd here, but an alarming number don't seem to have ever read a book, newspaper or magazine before. So, skills-wise, going beyond the first 5 hits in google.
- John Dupuis
No snark intended here, just an honest reaction: I am no longer surprised by the skills they don't have. Blank slates, every one of 'em.
- Jenica
Lack of knowledge about Citations. Lack of any sort of rubric for critical thinking. And when I worked at a more urban non-flagship state uni, it very much surprised me how little technological facility the kids had with gadgets & things like flickr/fb/etc, which we librarians tend to think of as basic skills all "young folk" have. There's such a wide range of abilities, and it hurts those at the lower end of the experience scale.
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
Jenica's right. I've seen students who couldn't write a complete sentence, so the only surprise is that they actually graduated high school.
- Kirsten
They also don't know how to do an index in word, or a table of contents
- marlene
I am completely baffled at undergrads inability to use the index, and would think you were pulling my leg, except I actually saw it for myself once.
- DJF
To qualify, that's more using a book, magazine or newspaper as an information source, rather than for pleasure, which most of them probably have done.
- John Dupuis
Yeah, I'm pretty much ignoring the "surprise" part of the question :) And, Marlene, I would need to lean very heavily on the "help" in Word to do that (I don't think it crossed my mind before now that there would be a feature for that.) But what *can* they do? I feel like most of our students have a rote skepticism of random web pages and Wikipedia pounded into them by the time they get here, so that's something.
- Steve is older than ever
This is all taking me back to high school... oh the things I didn't know because we weren't expected to.
- Kendra K
I should just point out that this is part of the reason I LOVE working with first year students. They're so easily impressed, and it makes such a difference to their lives. Immediate pay-off.
- lris
I'm surprised that more of them dont have iPhones. But looking back, my public school in NY wasnt big on citations, either. And we weren't expected to buy MS Office, nor did (nor does it now) offer MS office to students. So the kids nowadays, not so different.
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
I find a lot of them are intimidated by looking for a book on the stacks, don't understand the difference between databases and the internet, and have no concept of evaluating resources. I'm not surprised by these things anymore. It's just the reality. They also don't know how to email, use Microsoft Word, and don't use social networks outside of Facebook and YouTube.
- Jill is sugar free
I also work with a number of students who just aren't familiar with online catalogs, Library of Congress classification, and search engines other than Google.
- Jill is sugar free
okay, there's one I'm actually surprised by: Many of our students can't add attachments in our campus webmail, because their skill set with technology/software/apps is not transferable in their minds. They know how to do it in hotmail, but not the campus webmail.
- Jenica
I'm not sure how it applies to students today, but I was just thinking the other day about the many assignments I was given in school (specifically from middle school onward) in which there was a requirement to find information on a topic and no instruction was really provided on *how* to do that. I'm thinking "do a report on x" or "find out about this list of things" or "look up...
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- Rachel Walden
To pick up on a lot of different comments, on average new students aren't as tech savvy as we all assume they're going to be. Certainly not as tech savvy as they think they are. I still see students double clicking on hyperlinks. Although, I'm sure you'll come up with a more diplomatic way of saying, "You guys aren't as XYZ as we thought you were going to be."
- John Dupuis
Yeah, I'll be talking to high school librarians and teachers. I wonder if they should have a role in this technological literacy? I'm probably going to keep it pretty tightly linked to research. Thanks so much for the ideas so far! Maybe I'll actually blog this! (Gasp!)
- Steve is older than ever
Of course they should Steve. There are college and university librarians who are starting to partner with school librarians to help provide this at the high school level. That way we don't have to start at the beginning and you have a better chance of making an impression when they are first start to write research papers in high school classes. Sometimes I worry that by the time we get them, they already think that everything can be found through Google and that it's easier.
- Jill is sugar free
When I teach "finding stuff on the web and deciding if it's good or not" to high school students, they are usually not too bad at finding information, and they even have some rudimentary guesses at what good and bad information look like. What confuses them is the terminology involved--when I ask, "Does it cite any sources?" or "What are the credentials of the author?" they are frequently very confused.
- laura x
I have been surprised at how many of our students, when given a citation to an article that's in a print journal in our collection, haven't the first idea how to locate that article, despite the fact that our journals are shelved alphabetically by title. I've had to conclude that many of them have simply never located a print journal article before, ever.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Also, many of them THINK they know how to evaluate web pages because they've had it pounded into their heads in high school that there are hoax web sites out there. But they have no critical skills beyond "hoax vs. non-hoax," so if they find something that isn't obviously a hoax, they think it's legit.
- Catherine Pellegrino
that many of them don't have assignments that require use of libraries? We see them here occasionally for tours but not often for homework help. Hard to have teachable moments when they're not here....
- Abigail
Not freshmen and I shouldn't be surprised, but: Since we moved our books upstairs and our journals downstairs (used to have all items interfiled) in preparation for a merger with another branch, huge numbers of people don't know where to find the books they're interested in because they don't have a clue as to the call number, only where it is (was!) on the shelf; and also, no-one reads the nice, friendly and above all ginormous "TA books (journals are on level 1)" signs I made for every single stack-end.
- Deborah Fitchett
Abigail +1. We get them for an assignment at the start of Year 1, and then we get them sometime in Year 4 when they start researching for projects. In between they're just doing stuff with their textbooks and course notes and equations. --@Catherine: many students don't know what a journal *is*.
- Deborah Fitchett
Do not know what a subscription database is or know the difference between a DB and The Internet, even after trying to explain. Do not understand that we can't do much to help when they ask for help on their ocean-wide topics like Civil War, Economy, Smoking. Are baffled by Dewey and when asked if they know how to read a decimal (never mind Dewey), respond with a "no."
- Rochelle Rochelle
[Aside: Steve, I love the "searching for pointers to things" explanation. I'm totally using that in the class sessions I'm giving today"]
- Megan Fitzgibbons
In terms of writing, I think many students think that a research paper is just the sum of many cut and paste parts from different sources put into some order. There's no "student" in the "student paper". That's one reason why there is so much plagiarism. I think it would be useful to have students write an un-researched essay first and then only after that's done they should collect research both for and against their thoughts and then integrate research that into the their final version of their essay.
- mita
In terms of researching, I like the lessons of Marylaine Block's My Rules of Information: http://www.infotoday.com/searche... because they are written in English and not librarian-knees.
- mita
But I _like_ librarian knees!
- DJF
Not a skill, but a lot of them don't realize that future employers will be Googling them and checking for them on Facebook when they apply. I was working with some college students in public relations yesterday--they were asking me about that, and were very surprised when I told them employers (at least here in Canada) do check. A lot of students want to be very private on the web and don't realize their details can often be found.
- Connie Crosby
I love this thread b/c it validates my interest in the intersections between info literacy instruction and writing instruction. One of the problems here is that standardized tests (in high school and for tests like the SAT) expect the 5 paragraph theme form so that is what is taught. It's a very limited form and it doesn't facilitate the use of more complex research skills or critical...
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- Katy S
Quick bump: I'm doing this panel tonight & plan to bring up issues around citations and research as a method of inquiry rather than a vaccination. I'm sure I'll touch on some other great things you all mentioned, so thanks very much. Anything else?
- Steve is older than ever
Interestingly I talked this week to a 7th grade English teacher about this subject. She was bemoaning to me the fact that her class is considered "hard" because she required rewrites when the kids turned in what was obviously five sentences written during a commercial break for SYTYCD or other show. She said it took three rewrites to get a decent descriptive paragraph out of her kids...
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- Abigail
Setting up for my keynote. Watch live in 15 minutes http;://live.twit.tv. #bwe #beatcancer http://yfrog.com/2mxr4j
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Jason Griffey, mahjongmi, Eric Geller and Bill Heslin liked this
insightful keynote. I saw this but wanted share it with people. Don't suppose you have a video of this up? thanks.
- Cocoy Dayao
Thanks for the Keynote, Leo.
- Louis Trapani
from iPhone
The scifi-fantasy bookcases on Flickr - Photo Sharing - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
JSNFLMNG, Katy S, Jason Griffey and 3 other people liked this
lots of notes on Flickr
- Jenica
What's the story behind Tolkien in Italian?
- D0r0th34
I took three years of Italian in college, am half Italian on one side of my family, and have relatives living in Italy on the other... so my aunt who lives in Naples gave me The Hobbit in Italian. :)
- Jenica
d'awwwwwwww
- D0r0th34
Court Rules That Phones Ringing in Public Don't Infringe Copyright - http://www.eff.org/deeplin...
Jason Griffey and Aaron the Librarian liked this
However, do they infringe on one's peace & quiet?!
- Aaron the Librarian
that's a rhetorical question, right? :-p
- Jenny Levine
Only until it's litigated :)
- Aaron the Librarian
State of the Internet 2009: Pew Internet Project Findings and Implications for Libraries | Pew Internet & American Life Project - http://pewinternet.org/Present...
Jason Griffey liked this
80 000 people saw us kiss! #fb http://www.flickr.com/photos...
Laura Norvig, Joe...., Steve is older than ever and 3 other people liked this
what’s in my librarian toolbox? - http://www.librarian.net/stax...
Jason Griffey, John Fink and DO ANYBODY NO Laura B. liked this
"We Were Stunned When We Saw This in Michael Moore's Latest Film" — Claire Shipman of ABC News - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Drew, Bicentennial (Franc), Christopher Granade and 4 other people liked this
i knew that, very unfortunate and sad. So this is where we are at as a society? (not all of us of course)
- echostreamer
I care less about it being creepy than I do about the conflict of interest. Why pay for good health insurance when bad health insurance pays for itself?
- Christopher Granade
Call me callous but I don't really see a problem with this. A company loses out when an employee dies, okay it is not the same as a family member or friend, but it's still a loss. Letting them insure against that is fair enough in my view. Tax breaks for the practice is wrong though.
- Ghworg
Ghworg: yes, but then taking out $300k policies on employees and keeping them after they leave clearly violates that legitimate argument.
- Christopher Granade
Kol Tregaskes, Steven Perez, Jason Griffey and 10 other people liked this
I am SORRY! Josh! I won't do it again :)
- directeur
directeur, you can do no harm. ;)
- Josh Haley
:)
- directeur
master shake!
- chaz2b
Someone is wrong on the internet about copyright. But I can't beat a dead horse any longer.
Catherine Pellegrino, Jennifer Dittrich, Derrick and 6 other people liked this
No! Someone is wrong? But, but...I thought everybody got copyright right on the internet. (The flying spaghetti monster told me so...)
- Walt Crawford
And, yeah, I've given up commenting on most of this stuff, at least online (e.g., at LISNews). LITS. (Hey, life is too short to keep spelling out Life Is Too Short.)
- Walt Crawford
In this one, the person is saying that ANY printing of a PDF is technically a DMCA violation.
- Steve is older than ever
... wuddafug? that makes no sense whatever!
- D0r0th34
Well, any printing of a PDF for which you don't own the copyright. BUT YES STILL ARG.
- Steve is older than ever
You mean the little-known DMCA clause, "Doing something that could be prevented by digital rights management, if the creator of the item chose to use the DRM, but isn't--because they didn't--is nonetheless a violation?" It's the same clause that makes listening to MP3s (any MP3s) a felony and forced me to get rid of my TV so as not to violate DMCA. Now I'm only left with the aluminum-foil helmet...
- Walt Crawford
I wish I could link to the thread, but it's in a private forum. Other, rational people are saying "well the DMCA is so messed up, I think this is true." *headdesk*
- Steve is older than ever
CAUTION: This software was designed to support clean printing and retain typography and design. Any attempt to use it for its intended purposes may violate laws you never even heard of!
- Walt Crawford
That's actually one I'd not heard before. Amazing. Wait until I tell my lawyer buddy at CCC. He'll howl.
- Jill O'Neill
Thank you all for sharing my incredulity.
- Steve is older than ever
"I'd call him a sadistic, hippophilic necrophile, but that would be beating a dead horse."
- Liam Sullivan
Chris Z., DO ANYBODY NO Laura B., Jason Griffey and 4 other people liked this
I like the coked-up "crazy face" one.
- Steve is older than ever
Chalk notes as a valid communication format - http://rogersurbanek.wordpress.com/2009...
Buffy Hamilton, Meredith, Betsy (bentley) Vera and 34 other people liked this
I LOVE HOW YOU HANDLED THIS.
- jambina
That is a thing of BEAUTY.
- D0r0th34
YES! (see also: http://friendfeed.com/cpelleg...)
- Catherine Pellegrino
Bravo!
- Mary Carmen
[applause]
- David Rothman (☤)
Awesome!
- Katy S
Brilliant. That's how you do it.
- John Fink
that's just great - awesome job!
- Sarah
Just trying to get over the fact that there is a Flickr group for "library signage" - but brilliant piece of engagement
- Cameron Neylon
I will cop to having read an ENTIRE BOOK on library signage. It was actually a pretty good book.
- D0r0th34
"Brilliant" strikes me as about right.
- Walt Crawford
I. Need. A. Love. Button.
- ♫Geek in the 410♫
The Sidewalk Is Not Broken.
- Steve is older than ever
Just. Perfect.
- Bill Hooker
I can't say enough how much I love this.
- Rachel Walden
Wonderful!
- DO ANYBODY NO Laura B.
Bravo!! Excellent job responding quickly to them. Hope you get some great feedback from the students
- Abigail
I love the part about semaphore and smoke signals.
- Liam Sullivan
Jenica, I'm going to make bold to ask for a follow-up post. You are Head of Libraries. You answer to the Provost, who presumably has many more things to worry about than chalk on sidewalks. So, serious question: if your Head of Public Service (presuming you have such a position) had done this without consulting you, what would you have thought, said, and done? What if it had been a rank-and-file reference librarian?
- D0r0th34
lovely, thanks!
- D0r0th34
Google Wave: You need to pay attention to this. - http://www.jasonkolb.com/weblog...
Jason Griffey and jambina liked this
And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make
Jaclyn, Sir Shuping, Jeff P. Henderson and 2 other people liked this
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