It's not anything -- it's a question. - Dave Winer
I am not going to claim to know a damn thing about economics, but wouldn't that just be the free market at work? - Ryan
And you're naive if you think a Chinese company, having paid $0 for GM, would operate it the same way Daimler operated Chrysler. They wouldn't need to preserve shareholder value, or in any way maintain the footprint of GM, having paid nothing for it. - Dave Winer
The average UAW worker earns $75k (not counting benefits) and has a high school diploma. Not competitive is an understatement. - Carter Rabasa
It's not a matter of "letting them fail." There's a system in place for businesses to restructure and retool while remaining in business: it's called bankruptcy, and while it would affect workers, it would also hurt GM creditors, shareholders, and executives, who are looking to not get hurt if GM fails. This is not my idea: it's Robert Reich's. He wants to protect American taxpayers, not GM executives. I agree with him. - steplow = Steve Lowe
We may be returning to the late 80s when people were mad about Japanese businessmen were buying everything in Manhattan, like Rockefeller Center properties. I bet these same people were complaining back then. Maybe now they have become nihilists. - Rolf Schewe
Dave, what most of the "just let them fail crowd" don't understand is that this is an opportunity. Any bailout should be accompanied with the following requirements. That the automobiles manufactured must be greener, more fuel efficient, and utilize alternative energy. It also falls into the category of a capital works project. We need to keep people working if the economy is to recover. - Paul
What does a Chinese automaker have to gain by buying GM? - Amit Morson
Doesn't matter who. As long as smn does and it keeps going. US promoted a free and open market at the end of the day. It cuts both ways. - Sofia
It is a combination of things. Lines of credit are hard to get. Incomes have dropped relative to inflation. People are unsure of gas prices (I doubt they will stay low). The cars that are available are crap and inefficient. I say fire top management of the Big 3. The whole lot of 'em. - Rolf Schewe
Lindsay, they probably would take the deal, our debt isn't worth very much. BTW, if we were to bail out the auto industry, we would do it by taking out loans. The US Govt is the one part of the USA that still has good (enough) credit. Not because people trust us, but there's just no other place that's safer and cash has to go *somewhere*. - Dave Winer
Amit, the real estate alone is worth a lot, still, even though that market has crashed too. GM has a huge distribution network that's world-wide. - Dave Winer
China owns the world. China has the market cornered in cheap labor. - orionstarr
@Dave - I would guess trading China the auto industry wouldn't come close to covering all the debt we owe them. They basically own a good portion of our country anyway at this point. - Lindsay Donaghe
Simply put, if GM fails, you're going to have a Hooverville where your mall used to be. Food lines like they used to have in the Soviet Union. Empty shelves everywhere. Depression-like unemployment across the country, probalby not just limited to this country. It would be seen as an act of economic suicide by the rest of the world. - Dave Winer
You might also see Chinese security forces operating in the US to protect their newly acquired assets. They might not look like Chinese, but they might not obey the Constitution either. - Dave Winer
The estimates are 3 million lost jobs. Instantly. You know what that would do to the economy? Whoa. - Rolf Schewe
China doesn't own the world, at least not yet. However, they're a force to be reckoned with. - imabonehead
In these Yahoo internal emails, the people are always talking about how they bleed -- it's like some kind of cult. - Paul Buchheit
Register.com reports that www.friendbleed.com is available, Paul. - Louis Gray
quick response :) a few times ago he was on the iab conferences to talk about internet advertising in recession - webosapien (Burcu Tüzün)
Paul, the bleeding thing predates Yahoo. At Apple, people would always say they bled 6 colors because of the logo. On one occasion, an executive got up in front of a group and told us he bled 5 colors. We always wondered if the missing color was red. - Chris White
Yeah @ Home Depot everyone was "bleeding orange" or had "orange blood". - Erica Baker
Well, I wonder what the market thinks of...oh, wait, YHOO is up 12% this morning.... - Glen Campbell
It is not about whether you like him... it is about whether he was the best CEO for them at this time or not. He was not, and he is lucky to not be sued by shareholders for this level of poor management - Ian D. Nock
via twhirl
That's awesome. Apparently, the farmer would put a sticker on the Apple about a month before harvest, and it would naturally form that image. - Ryan Twomey
I have mixed thoughts about it. Bankruptcy protection is sufficient. Bailouts won't protect jobs; cos. won't adapt w/o incentive. - steplow = Steve Lowe
Any deal to bail out auto makers MUST include government oversight (it's our money) and requirements to restructure and retool. I'm not opposed to floaiting the industry again because I understand the magnitude of the impact its failure would have; however, I'm not interested in doing what we've done the last three times the auto industry's come calling for a blank check: let them continue doing bad business. If they knew how to run those businesses, we wouldn't be bailing them out, frankly. That said, the associated industries that will collapse if the auto industry is allowed to fail is 10x what the financial industry would result in the long term. - Bob M. Montgomery
via twhirl
Any truth to reports that the $750 billion wall street bailout had $25 billion earmarked to auto industry? - Kevin W.
There is no reason to believe that "government oversight" would contribute to creating a successful auto industry. - Sean McBride
At different times, the chariot, horse buggy, and paddleboat industries were very important to the economies and infrastructures of their respective societies. Since we no longer have many chariots, buggies, or steamboats, 1 of 2 things happened: companies adapted or they died. The internal combustion, fossil-fuel-powered automobile is on the decline. Companies must adapt or die. It would be *very* painful for everyone to let them die. So, since they have shown no appetite for adapting on their own, we should use the leverage of any loan/bailout to force them to adapt in ways that will benefit everyone. - Robert Clockedile
The auto industry has destroyed $465 billion of capital in the last two decades. It's over. http://bit.ly/Zu5B - Carter Rabasa
I agree that the auto industry is like Katrina. It's a disaster that taxpayers and consumers need to be saved from. - Chris White
Steve, that's nonsense. Bankruptcy protection works if the company has the cash flow to continue operating. GM is failing because it has insufficient cash and can't go to the banks to borrow to keep operating. - Dave Winer
This is what I meant about people not paying attention to what's going on. There's a financial crisis. They would be failing even if their products were perfect. Toyota is in deep shit too. - Dave Winer
GM is failing because its products are inferior and it refuses to innovate. - Chris White
I'm not a big fan of big government, but it's obvious that the auto industry is inept and incapable of fixing itself. So, if its collapse cannot be allowed under current circumstances and we have to give them money, someone has to force the industry to adapt, as it's proven incapable of doing so itself. It's less an assumption that the government can do no harm and more of an understanding that it's in a position to intervene. - Bob M. Montgomery
via twhirl
Dave: wrong. GM has plenty of revenue (http://bit.ly/vV3T), they just spend more than they earn (legacy costs, labor costs, etc). - Carter Rabasa
Dave, are you saying that GMs products are superior and it continues to innovate, or are you saying that it isn't important to have superior products and innovate? Their cash flow problem didn't happen overnight. Toyota, Honda and BMW aren't going out of business. - Chris White