Hakim

Any deal to bail out auto makers MUST include government oversight (it's our money) and requirements to restructure and retool. I'm not opposed to floaiting the industry again because I understand the magnitude of the impact its failure would have; however, I'm not interested in doing what we've done the last three times the auto industry's come calling for a blank check: let them continue doing bad business. If they knew how to run those businesses, we wouldn't be bailing them out, frankly. That said, the associated industries that will collapse if the auto industry is allowed to fail is 10x what the financial industry would result in the long term. - Bob M. Montgomery via twhirl

Any truth to reports that the $750 billion wall street bailout had $25 billion earmarked to auto industry? - Kevin W.

There is no reason to believe that "government oversight" would contribute to creating a successful auto industry. - Sean McBride

plus 1 for Sean - Dave Hodson

At different times, the chariot, horse buggy, and paddleboat industries were very important to the economies and infrastructures of their respective societies. Since we no longer have many chariots, buggies, or steamboats, 1 of 2 things happened: companies adapted or they died. The internal combustion, fossil-fuel-powered automobile is on the decline. Companies must adapt or die. It would be *very* painful for everyone to let them die. So, since they have shown no appetite for adapting on their own, we should use the leverage of any loan/bailout to force them to adapt in ways that will benefit everyone. - Robert Clockedile

The auto industry has destroyed $465 billion of capital in the last two decades. It's over. http://bit.ly/Zu5B - Carter Rabasa

I agree that the auto industry is like Katrina. It's a disaster that taxpayers and consumers need to be saved from. - Chris White

+1 ChrisW - Carter Rabasa

Steve, that's nonsense. Bankruptcy protection works if the company has the cash flow to continue operating. GM is failing because it has insufficient cash and can't go to the banks to borrow to keep operating. - Dave Winer

This is what I meant about people not paying attention to what's going on. There's a financial crisis. They would be failing even if their products were perfect. Toyota is in deep shit too. - Dave Winer

GM is failing because its products are inferior and it refuses to innovate. - Chris White

Chris, in word, no. - Dave Winer

I'm not a big fan of big government, but it's obvious that the auto industry is inept and incapable of fixing itself. So, if its collapse cannot be allowed under current circumstances and we have to give them money, someone has to force the industry to adapt, as it's proven incapable of doing so itself. It's less an assumption that the government can do no harm and more of an understanding that it's in a position to intervene. - Bob M. Montgomery via twhirl

Dave: wrong. GM has plenty of revenue (http://bit.ly/vV3T), they just spend more than they earn (legacy costs, labor costs, etc). - Carter Rabasa

Dave, are you saying that GMs products are superior and it continues to innovate, or are you saying that it isn't important to have superior products and innovate? Their cash flow problem didn't happen overnight. Toyota, Honda and BMW aren't going out of business. - Chris White

It's not anything -- it's a question. - Dave Winer

I am not going to claim to know a damn thing about economics, but wouldn't that just be the free market at work? - Ryan

And you're naive if you think a Chinese company, having paid $0 for GM, would operate it the same way Daimler operated Chrysler. They wouldn't need to preserve shareholder value, or in any way maintain the footprint of GM, having paid nothing for it. - Dave Winer

The average UAW worker earns $75k (not counting benefits) and has a high school diploma. Not competitive is an understatement. - Carter Rabasa

It's not a matter of "letting them fail." There's a system in place for businesses to restructure and retool while remaining in business: it's called bankruptcy, and while it would affect workers, it would also hurt GM creditors, shareholders, and executives, who are looking to not get hurt if GM fails. This is not my idea: it's Robert Reich's. He wants to protect American taxpayers, not GM executives. I agree with him. - steplow = Steve Lowe

We may be returning to the late 80s when people were mad about Japanese businessmen were buying everything in Manhattan, like Rockefeller Center properties. I bet these same people were complaining back then. Maybe now they have become nihilists. - Rolf Schewe

Dave, what most of the "just let them fail crowd" don't understand is that this is an opportunity. Any bailout should be accompanied with the following requirements. That the automobiles manufactured must be greener, more fuel efficient, and utilize alternative energy. It also falls into the category of a capital works project. We need to keep people working if the economy is to recover. - Paul

I'll beat their offer with a penny. - Morton Fox

What if we traded China the car industry here for the debt we owe them... that might work out in our favor... maybe. - Lindsay Donaghe

Morton, I feel better now. :-) - Dave Winer

I just don't think of GM as the home team. They did, at one time, own 20% of Suzuki and they've now sold the last 3%. Sorry Dave. - Christopher Harley

I can borrow a nickel! - Mike L

What does a Chinese automaker have to gain by buying GM? - Amit Morson

Doesn't matter who. As long as smn does and it keeps going. US promoted a free and open market at the end of the day. It cuts both ways. - Sofia

It is a combination of things. Lines of credit are hard to get. Incomes have dropped relative to inflation. People are unsure of gas prices (I doubt they will stay low). The cars that are available are crap and inefficient. I say fire top management of the Big 3. The whole lot of 'em. - Rolf Schewe

Lindsay, they probably would take the deal, our debt isn't worth very much. BTW, if we were to bail out the auto industry, we would do it by taking out loans. The US Govt is the one part of the USA that still has good (enough) credit. Not because people trust us, but there's just no other place that's safer and cash has to go *somewhere*. - Dave Winer

Here's an interesting view about the automaker industry protectionism - http://friendfeed.com/e/742a0c... - imabonehead

Amit, the real estate alone is worth a lot, still, even though that market has crashed too. GM has a huge distribution network that's world-wide. - Dave Winer

China owns the world. China has the market cornered in cheap labor. - orionstarr

@Dave - I would guess trading China the auto industry wouldn't come close to covering all the debt we owe them. They basically own a good portion of our country anyway at this point. - Lindsay Donaghe

Simply put, if GM fails, you're going to have a Hooverville where your mall used to be. Food lines like they used to have in the Soviet Union. Empty shelves everywhere. Depression-like unemployment across the country, probalby not just limited to this country. It would be seen as an act of economic suicide by the rest of the world. - Dave Winer

You might also see Chinese security forces operating in the US to protect their newly acquired assets. They might not look like Chinese, but they might not obey the Constitution either. - Dave Winer