"Hormesis is the term for generally-favorable biological responses to low exposures to toxins and other stressors. A pollutant or toxin showing hormesis thus has the opposite effect in small doses as in large doses. ... The biochemical mechanisms by which hormesis works are not well understood. It is conjectured that a low dose challenge with a toxin may trigger certain repair mechanisms in the body, and these mechanisms, having been initiated, are efficient enough that they not only neutralize the toxin's effect, but even repair other defects not caused by the toxin."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
I love that Bret, Paul, and Kevin checked in. They probably are looking at their screens and asking "what do we do now?" how about ship some new features before Facebook overlords take you off to do bigger things?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I feel sorry for all you addicts. My use of it is purely social.
- Bruce Lewis
I do like FF and use it almost every day. Wouldn't it be great if FB either left it alone so we can continue to use it as "professionals," or somehow incorporate it into a more "mature" version of FB that didn't have all the annoying, time-wasting apps, games, etc. I'd much prefer a totally customizable FF "wall."
- Cathryn Hrudicka
I think FFundercats HO!!!!! would have worked but I'm here anyways.
- Jimminy Fuller
Actively fighting addiction to anything on a daily basis, but I'm still a FriendFeed fan! (I'd have been here sooner but I've been staring at Phoebe Cates pics for longer than I realized.)
- Mark "DerBingle" J
Thank you Robert Scoble to be here. :) BTW is this looks interesting for FF replacement? : http://streamy.com/ ? May be... I'll try it to see. :)
- Claude LaFrenière
Why should I? Whats in it for me? You doing some sort of survey of people to send out the police to do a "Safety Check" on when the site is shutdown?
- Uncle CW™
here. anecdote: a friend of mine just signed up for FF this evening. apparently the FriendFeed hype of the last 24 hours pushed him over the top. leaves me wondering whether FF has actually gained users today?it would be a crafty way of marketing the service. I'll wake up tomorrow to discover that there was a problem with the paperwork and the FriendFeed team have had a change of heart.
- JSLeFanu
from BuddyFeed
Count me in even though I was just starting to get hooked. I guess it's time to find a rehab and get all sobered up until the next relapse with some other new addiction. Isn't life grand?
- Usman Bashir
oh hey, look, the added an "add comment" link to the end of the comment list. Huzzah!
- Brett Kelly
from iPhone
++Jay. I was going to do the same thing yesterday but I didn't want to pay the money.
- David Cook
David -- this was a $9.95 session but you can get them for $7.95 and there are also 25% off coupons if you do online check-in prior to your Delta flight. That's an incentive for folks to use that service and offload kiosk use at the terminals. Very savvy marketing by the folks at GoGo and Delta combined.
- Jay Cuthrell
well, it's 12:12 a.m. and I'm perusing FF from my iPhone via BuddyFeed before turning in. so yeah, I guess I count. "Here!" (raises hand)
- Don Faulkner
from BuddyFeed
I recommend FF to some of my clients, and there are some companies and nonprofits with presences here—not like Twitter, but I'll be curious how that will be affected when FB takes over more. Most have FB fan pages, groups and/or causes, too.
- Cathryn Hrudicka
Yeah, me too. I just saw the request to have a comment link at the bottom of the comments from one of your friends just yesterday and here it is. I'd say they are listening. Thanks FF.
- Keith Rowland
И так чятег, пока Скобл не поговорит с нами представителями СовиетФрендфидика, все мои записи теперь можно читать в этом тредике. Пользуясь случае передаю Парню Бухайту и его команде большой привет, в связи с тем что [He can has sleep naw].
- ideali
превед кетаец! давай сегодня сделаем тебя счастливым!
- Махатма Бугоганди
точно! поэт, пародист, переводчик. известный блоггер.
- Махатма Бугоганди
я вчера был в издательстве, с меня сведения об авторе просят. давайте, говорят, напишем, где учился, что генеральный директор. и что известный блоггер.
- Махатма Бугоганди
а можно получить профессию известного блоггера? какие экзамены сдавать надо? какую специализацию лучше выбрать - микроблоггинг или аудиоподкастинг?
- Махатма Бугоганди
Один чувак пришол в чятег и говорит я известный блоггер кто тут тру на первый второй рассчитайсь. А ему говорят чувак у тебя сертификат есть что ты известный блоггер? Вот иди Зайке экзамен сдай потом приходи. А Зайка стоит такой с топором и улыбается. Щас думает счастливым его сделаю.
- Махатма Бугоганди
Я потерял интерес в данный момент. Я буду скрывать, как и любой другой. Это хромой, что вы захватили этот. Пивные правила. Спокойной ночи. :-)
- Matthew Horton
More than a friend of FriendFeed, was starting to use it as a full lifestreaming platform and loved it. It's made a whole lot of other sites make sense.
- achean
Hi, I'm Bette... I don't know if I'm an addict, but I can't stay away... I keep checking, just to see if something's new... and I cry if I get no responses to a post. Is that addictive behavior? :D
- Bette Cooper
Yup, I have blocked all the impersonators now. You will still see them, but I don't see them and they no longer can comment on any of my items.
- Robert Scoble
@scobleizer As far as I can see you have blocked not only the impersonators (who renamed themselves back the moment they found out you have a problem with this) but most of the folks who chatted there.
- Махатма Бугоганди
@meatreach yes, see next thread. Scobble becomes anti-Russian.
- Never Impersonate You
Maxatma: well, that's just too bad. I speak English. Sorry. People who don't speak English really don't have any business commenting on one of my items, except in rare cases.
- Robert Scoble
Why you, Robert Scoble, don't block users from Spain or Italy? China or arabic countries? Those users that comments on non-English languages?
- Never Impersonate You
@Robert, in fact they do speak English. But they also do make fun of Friendfeed and everything that's going on there. You can block them or take part in this fun. ;)
- Махатма Бугоганди
I prefer FF over twitter and facebook, but all my friends are on twitter and/or facebook. Maybe facebook will get it right this time now that it has acquired FF. If they simplify it a bit more without removing functionality. Then I would spend a bit more time on FB. Lets hope all goes well with the merger. If not I'm jumping ship and going over to Google Wave. oh wait, I'm going to go with Google Wave regardless! ;-)
- Captain Jack
Bu arada Russian friends Turkiye'ye selamlar gonderiyor.
- ideali
@scobleizer i can speak english and i beg you to remove bann from all russian friendfeeders, because we are all from it-community, working in internet companies and we came with peace, you asked for feedback from friendfeed addicts — we show you how really it is being frf addicts, we change names, we chat, we making things that are not serious. Why so serious? Unlock people, they are not bots, they just playing the game of real addicts and have fun. Common.
- ideali
shaun: I started this post to demonstrate that a lot of us are still here and aren't likely to leave. At least not quickly. So, life goes on after FriendFeed gets acquired by Facebook. Point proved.
- Robert Scoble
Robert He says ; Our Russian friends say to hello to Turkey
- Osman Üngür
ideali: have them send email to scobleizer@gmail.com and I'll unblock anyone who says they weren't impersonating me.
- Robert Scoble
Hector: good morning! I need coffee.
- Robert Scoble
@robert yes they (we will) stay here, I think tat the migration process will take time and after reading @Paul Bucheit, I think that what we all are trying to get even if we don't say it explicitly is to preserve a kind of intimacy (beeing a part of the Huge faceBook community) don't mean that FF community will preserve their intimacy, why should a community be a plan one, (let imagine a community as a set of sub-community) that all.
- abdellah
Wow!! So many likes and comments; is it a record Rob?
- میر «عرفان» موسوی
@scobleizer thank you, for understanding. be cool, guys we just want have fun here a little. Take care.
- ideali
@Robert RE "I have enough noise in my life. I don't need to have more" - isn't it a lot of noise having 26K subscriptions and 46K subscribers on your frf account? I'm kind of surprised - you create a community that large around yourself, yet when you see a new and unusual activity you just block it right away.
- Махатма Бугоганди
@Robert, patience? Who's talking about patience? It's about curiosity, not patience. When something strange and unusual happens around you, you can either try to stop it or try to see what it can develop into. You choose to stop - and it stopped. Well, not stopped - just moved to some other place. And do you really know what it was and what it was about to bring you?
- Махатма Бугоганди
I'm here all the way from South Africa! I dig this service and I'm not quite ready to give it up. Regardless of the news about the acquisition, this remains an awesome service.
- Paul Jacobson
I'm new to ff but find more valuable information here than anywhere else!
- Janet Crance
I don't know how I rate my addiction relative to others, but I shared Hitler's reaction upon hearing the acquisition news (despite happiness for Paul and Bret)
- Chris Duffy
I'm sure this is part of Scoble's plot to poll all the people who really read his posts, and unfollow the rest. So I raise my hand.
- Shivanand Velmurugan
Just a wannabe. Not an addict (yet).
- Carole Hicks
It might also be a way for me to filter down my "following" count (diff (my followers, scoble)) are the only people I really need to follow. Those that scoble follows, I can safely unfollow and use Scoble as my social media filter :)
- Shivanand Velmurugan
pardon the arrogance but it really sucks this great forum of sharing will turn into a myspace humdrum. Now I have to find another SM where first adopters and well informed techies won't haft to compete with general "noise"
- earl wallace
Well, here's a comment I can later delete and rob the owner of 1500!
- Matthew DeVries
I just mention the 1500 mark since it was such an iconic query to see... that and the 500 Likes club of FF posts. It's pretty exclusive stuff... but it's also sobering to note that the subject matter required to get to these levels isn't always a uniform mix of cares/concerns.
- Jay Cuthrell
When I heard the FaceBook news, I tried to quit FriendFeed and I couldn't... I'M HOOKED
- The Web's Wendell Wittler
i clicked the "1488 more comments" and my computer nearly exploded. and yes, i am using an amiga 500.
- jack
Now that I have instructions (thanks LouisGray) and figured out my Bookmarklet! I am LOVING the ease of use! addict - not quite...
- Robyn Hawk
Actually, I lied. I am not a die-hard friendfeed fan. I desperately want to be but have just not been able to get into a good "feeding" rhythm. Maybe I need to add some more friends
- Anant Gairola
I don't need to be addict. I'm just here, everyday, absorbing so many geeky info :D There's no place like FF
- Lysender
I'm still with ya, Robert. Whatever FB paid for FF, it wasn't enough!
- Donald C. Lindsay
New here, but learning. Tips for best use?
- Barbara Langham
@bdlangam From my perspective the #1 tip in this category is: Explore and define "best use" for yourself. Despite potential "finishing" impression of some productive consolidations in this collective-collaborative cognition space, the emergent #cognosphere is still WAY too nascent to assert anything other than initial impressions. March to the beat of your own drum; build your own...
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- michael silverton
yeah sorry, late. was at Shambhala Music Festival, I know tardy, sorry...
- sofarsoShawn
I'm getting hooked, still figuring it all out
- Michele McGraw
I think I do. Not enough contacts to make a impression.
- Michael Schlag
Stranger Than Fiction (http://www.imdb.com/title...) is definitely one of my favorite movies of all time. Hilarious, heartwarming, fantastic acting. One of the few movies I love re-watching.
Wondering if people who loved "stranger than fiction" also generally love "groundhog day", "being john malkovich", "six degrees of separation" among others? recommendations welcome. thx
- Harscoat
Bret, are you on Flickchart yet? Would love to see what your all-time list shapes up to be. You can sign up immediately here: http://tinyurl.com/flickch...
- Nathan Chase
Impressive! Now you can save real time searches as embeddable widgets. That's just awesome! This is a massively POWERFUL feature. Thank you FF team!
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Lol, you flipped the switch before the post came out as far as I can tell. I was searching for it and I couldn't see it.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Yowsa. Makes quick easy work out of social media monitoring, don't it?
- Ian Wilker
Congrats Paul to you and your team! Another one bites the dust!
- Jorge Escobar
WAAAAAAAAA.. meta real time search.. love the concept of embed a real-time search !! Way to Team FF -- luv u guys !! :)-
- Peter Dawson
Do you guys sleep? Honestly, love the constant output and attention you guys pay to user feedback. I know this highly requested and probably not easy to implement.
- Frankie Warren
@Jesse: It's a dead twitter command "track keyword" sends you realtime updates whenever the word is used. Think of it like realtime google alerts for friendfeed.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I'm pretty sure Gillmor et al kept calling it "track" because that's what Twitter called it back when they had it for a week.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
On a related note, live embeddable searches mean that I can hack together my own FF embeds for the pages that don't have them yet, like say "comment:dpritchett" http://friendfeed.com/search...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Daniel, Twitter never had this - this isn't "track"
- Jesse Stay
The blogpost said they're working to implement "keyword notifications" Jesse, that will be "track"
- Frankie Warren
Twitter's brought back track, it's just no one cares. You can now have updates by keyword on Twitter pushed to you, via XMPP, just like track used to. Gillmor says that's not track.
- Jesse Stay
That's why I hate the term "track" - no one knows what it is. The way Paul is explaining it, as real-time search, is a much better way of explaining it.
- Jesse Stay
I guess we're still missing the realtime notifications piece that folks want. You can shape the firehose to watch terms in realtime but you can't yet get it pushed outside of FF via email or IM?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Daniel, Twitter has that right now, but Gillmor says that's not track
- Jesse Stay
/me prints up a few hundred "That's not track!" t-shirts
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Killer feature. I'm watching news about Honduras scrolling by. Very useful.
- Chris Baskind
Jesse: Oh, i'm with you... Real-Time Search is a better term :)
- Frankie Warren
BTW, integrating this into my blog right now
- Jesse Stay
Me too Jesse. Making a new static page for that comment:dpritchett search I mentioned
- Daniel J. Pritchett
this is definitely cool and all, but what about API? We are falling way behind on feature sets :)
- Tim Hoeck
It's like an alternative to watching TV, in a literary sort of way.
- Ted Gilchrist
Yay! This is the killer feature (once it's in the API, of course ;)
- Brandon Titus
I'd love to see a blog post about how this is implemented. Real-time search has some interesting problems.
- Chris Lamprecht
I take it back - I can't integrate this into my blog until I can filter it to a single list. I really need an embed for "comment:dpritchett list:e20" except lists are still virtual in that no one other than me can see them unless I use the atom export.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I am sloooooooooooow. But what/where is the template to make the embeddable widget. please?
- Marg Uerite
You're right Jesse - it's not exactly Track but it's getting a lot closer. The old Twitter Track allowed you to set up multiple search terms (e.g. track iphone) and get those delivered to your IM with zero time lag. At any time you could type "track" to see what you're currently tracking and "untrack" to untrack something - e.g. "untrack iphone". There are some third party tools that...
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- Mike Doeff
Paul, is there a way to change the title of the embed? The long search string looks kinda bad.
- Jesse Stay
Mike, Twitter offers that today. Gillmor says it's not Track.
- Jesse Stay
Marg, after you do a search, click the "Share / embed search" link to get the embed code.
- Dan Hsiao
Jesse, are you sure? Can you provide a URL describing this feature? I think you're referring to Twitter Search (and saved searches) which is totally different.
- Mike Doeff
Jesse, when / where did Gillmor say that isn't track? I'm pretty sure that Steve just wants the old track brought back, with some filtering capabilities added (the old Track didn't filter out blocked accounts).
- Mike Doeff
Yay! Have been eagerly awaiting this. :)
- Rick Turoczy
Mike, he's said in various comments. Looks like Track to me... Heck, it's even called "track".
- Jesse Stay
I want to 'Like' this *twice*! many thanks!
- topo
The first step in a storystreaming platform!
- Kevin Sablan
Whoa. Wow. And Yes! Fantastic work, FF team.
- Micah Wittman
Good stuff although should support negative operators such as I should able to search my name in the all posts NOT coming from me. I've tried "from:-username" but it doesn't seem to work.
- Ferruh Mavituna
OK, you guys are wicked talented! It's kind of scary, but I love it. So what's next? Just kidding:)
- Michael Fidler
Ferruh: you just have it a bit backwards... try -from:username instead :)
- Ross Miller
WOOOOOOOOOOW. Friendfeed is really pushing some cool features out :). Friendfeed is the best :)
- alfred westerveld
Highly addictive--great stuff! I did notice that if you do a search like [google] you'll see dupe stories streaming by quite a bit (e.g. the TechCrunch story about Google Voice shows up over and over right now). Not sure if it's possible to de-dupe based on destination url a little bit more?
- Matt Cutts
two months after redesign, we have access to real-time search. good news bc my preferred search engine is friendfeed. ;)
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
We are there, in the battle against Twitter
- Michael_techie
I can't say enough how amazing this is. So, I ordered a bottle of real-time translation to go with this magnificent feast of real-time search :D http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Micah Wittman
Just to show what is possible now with this feature, I've built SteroidFeed: Go here to see it as well as download the files: http://friendfeed.com/lph... Latest version is 1.01.
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Tim has 617,000 followers on Twitter -- almost all gained because he is on the suggested user list. But he only has 10,000 followers on FriendFeed. TechCrunch has almost the same pattern. Why is this?
- Robert Scoble
They can't get people to follow them because the people who added them are not really listening and impressionable.
- Louis Gray
You have to be engaged and interactive to have influence.
- Louis Gray
It's what I was hinting at this morning. Most of the users on Twitter don't actually take action or DO anything. They aren't followers. They aren't listening. They aren't engaged. So these audiences can't be transfered anywhere else.
- Robert Scoble
Kenton, That's it for me. I follow Tim on Twitter, actually find him very engaged there, but didn't automatically assume he was on FB and FF. Now I will
- Francine Hardaway
also the chance of someone responding on a sul is higher on friendfeed that is on twitter
- Kashif Khan
Shea: the problem with your thesis is that it holds true on Facebook. I have more fans there than TechCrunch does.
- Robert Scoble
Also, if you only ever re-tweet instead of putting up original content your followers are going to tend to be more passive.
- Kenton
how about them dopey Positive Affirmation tweeters? Ugh!
- Steven E. Streight
If I want inspirational quotes, I'll open a Bible thank you.
- Steven E. Streight
Like prob all of you I am on numerous social websites, twitter is not great at all unless you like the constant stream of tweet torrents - it is quick to interact with, that's why I use it the most right now.
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
Kenton: that's true too, but TechCrunch puts up original content and he has fewer followers on Facebook than I do (and I post almost NOTHING on Facebook).
- Robert Scoble
This is the very basic definition of following, you don't act, you follow. If you want to engage people, you need a community, which twitter can help you to manage but won't do for you. @loic can make many people do something, he has influence, because he built a community, not because he has followers.
- Jonathan Belgourari
Jonathan: yup and Guy Kawasaki has a lot more influence than I do and he neither is on Twitter's SUL and he doesn't even write all his own Tweets (he admits he has a team writing them).
- Robert Scoble
twitter is also great to find out about people in a quick way, you otherwise wold never engage with. the next step blog, friendfeed, fb or email is just as easy.
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
if you have a lot of followers interaction is very limited. You miss out on so much when you hit the refresh page when you have followers . Im guessing after many attempts of trying to communicate and not receiving anything back ppl quit
- Kashif Khan
Jonathan: I call that a "reader" or a "consumer" then, not a follower. Followers do what you ask them to do. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Went and looked for him on FB. Not even a photo? Does he hang out there?
- Francine Hardaway
on a much smaller scale I've looked at overlaps between my twitter (3000) fb (900) ff (800); there seems to be about 300 people who are common to all three, the rest choose where and how to interact with me. I tend to think of the 300 as my "digital dunbar number".
- JP Rangaswami
Kashif: I interact here with almost everyone and I have 42,000 followers here.
- Robert Scoble
good point Robert, I don't really consider Facebook a place to go for information like that so I had only really considered Friendfeed.
- Kenton
Twitter is a different medium to the others, Robert. It's a lot less of a commitment to follow somebody on that network. FF has a relatively tiny user base so a comparison there is apples and oranges. Facebook for the majority is still less about following *anybody* and more about following people you know and trust. Why? Because you're giving away a lot of yourself each time you add...
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- Shéa Bennett
Alex: heheh. I'm not the only insane one.
- Robert Scoble
but where is interacting easier , twitter or friendfeed ?
- Kashif Khan
Shea: the truth about Twitter is that many people check it out for a few minutes and then never return to the service. Or if they do return, they do so very sporadically. Over here or on Facebook the audiences are much more engaged.
- Robert Scoble
I agree with Louis. you have to interact and participate.
- Johnny
from BuddyFeed
imagine having to track this same conversation using twitters web interface and not having tweetdeck or seismic to help you out
- Kashif Khan
Robert: I keep hearing that but I'm very engaged with my network. And I regularly remove the people who I feel don't make any kind of an effort. It's all about keeping things relative.
- Shéa Bennett
I am still scared to contact anybody on Facebook, because I don't know if the want to stay private/real friends, or if they like me joining their conversation = I never send friend requests
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
Shea: the other truth about the Suggested User List is these are not organic followers. They are people who opened an account and clicked "add all the suggested users." Before Tim and Mashable and TechCrunch were added to that list I had more followers on Twitter. So did Leo Laporte. So did Guy Kawasaki. So, most of those newer followers that Tim and Mike got by being on the SUL aren't strong followers. That's why they aren't very engaged.
- Robert Scoble
I agree re: Twitter - they check it out and then leave - the follow and forget methodology. I guess the real measure of how interactive his followers are would be to request that they do something (click a link, etc.) In reality, if he got 1/10 of 1% to do anything, I'd be impressed.
- Jeff Pomeroy
You also have to remember that the majority of FB's 200 million users are non-techy people, many of whom see FB *as* the internet, not just a product of it. I think Twitter's audience is maturer (in terms of average age, as well as content) and less interesting in bells and whistles (videos, music etc).
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: what got Twitter to be so cool is engagedment USED to be a lot higher than 1/10th of 1% for everyone. Now it has gone down.
- Robert Scoble
I have no disagreement at all about the SUL. I've written several articles about it on Twittercism. It needs to be scrapped or totally revamped. And yeah, a lot of the followers folk get from being on the SUL are very casual users, assuming they return at all.
- Shéa Bennett
Shea: I totally disagree with that thesis. I did a survey of 600 Web innovators, influencers, and press. About 85% are on all three social networks (Twitter, Friendfeed, Facebook). And many of those are participating more on Facebook than on Twitter lately. Why is that?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, my 'suggested user list' was full of esoteric treehuggers and feelgood-psychos. I am a software architect and astrophysics hugger instead. Facebook hooks me up with really strange algorithms - meh..
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
I would too, like many other things, but than I want diversity. I want a lot of different people and opinions to challenge my thinking.
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
Maybe they are participating on Facebook more because they can truly control who sees what when they have their discussions. Twitter allows a lot of 'noise' to occur from unknown followers when these people are trying to communicate amongst themselves. Maybe Facebook or Friendfeed is just the better medium for those types of interactions.
- Jeff Pomeroy
Robert: Which thesis? Blasted Friendfeed and its lack of threaded comments. ;)
- Shéa Bennett
even on FB its easier to track conversations
- Kashif Khan
Jeff, I agree. And I also think 'older people are more comfortable with FB. The 'older folks' on twitter are broadcasting their wisdoms and not interacting - most of them...
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
great listening to you guys - friendfeed proves something right here;) see ya. i'm out...
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
As for why your list are involved more on FB than Twitter, I have no idea. But 600 from either network is still a very small sample. I'm confused how these folk are actually "participating" on FB, too. Specifically, what does that word mean on that network? What do they do? My experience is that over half of my followers go ballistic if I update my status on FB more than about 15-20 times per day. And I'm *very* selective to make sure it's only the good stuff. :)
- Shéa Bennett
It is personality vs brand. You Robert, Jason Calacanis, Leo Lapporte, are personalities before brand. We talk to you as real people. O'riley is brand before personality. We are not used to talking back to a brand unless we're miffed about something. It is just not normal. For instance today when you asked my question at the #hpreveal thing it cought them off guard and totally blew me...
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- Ron Hudson
Ron: good point. The real answer is that Twitter totally messed with the system by choosing its own "stars" instead of letting the real stars organically bubble up to the top. Since O'Reilly and Arrington are "chosen stars" their followers aren't strong followers like the ones that they got organically. Even Arrington admits this in analysis.
- Robert Scoble
I totally agree with Ron about that. That's what I love about FF and Twitter - it's the first time that we've had anything like a level playing field for discourse. And the ones who don't engage now stand out like sore thumbs.
- Shéa Bennett
I always love it when somebody has 40,000 followers but is following 40 people. What a waste. Why even engage? You, Robert have almost as many followers as followees.
- Curt Mercadante
for me it seems that given his lopsided ratio, it gives the impression that he is not truly interactive but rather broadcasting and waiting for feedback.
- Eran Even-Kesef
An engaged audience is built slowly, not quickly
- Jesse Stay
So now when a new user gets on Twitter they see the same reinforced message from everywhere else. "These are people/brands you should LISTEN to" It is not "These are people to get to know and have conversation with"
- Ron Hudson
Robert, wouldn't the organic SUL just be the top 100 most-followed? Which even before the SUL got going wasn't exactly a bastion of quality. All Twitter needs to do is mix things up - when I sign up (or check the SUL at any time), the service should give me X of its own recommendations, and the same amount that are tailored to me by my own interests. Of course, for this to really work...
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- Shéa Bennett
Curt: lots of people use these things for broadcasting. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I do prefer to follow people who engage.
- Robert Scoble
I followed @timoreilly for a while on twitter, but didn't find him interesting enough to keep following. It's true that @GuyKawasaki doesn't write all his own tweets, but I like them and look forward to them (if one of his ladies have written the tweet they will have their initials at the end of it.) I follow you, Robert, because I like your tweets too. I will follow anyone who follows...
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- Andrew Jordan
Hey Louis Gray are you anti-SUL like many of us in this thread?
- Mark
Shea: I can see about 100 ways to build a useful SUL. The current SUL just serves @ev and @biz 's own egos and purposes.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: just remember that Twitter has signaled to the world that anyone who begs to be on, or complains about the SUL will never get onto it.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I agree. Between us, if they added you overnight, would you ask to be removed? I suspect you would, and I know at least one other has.
- Shéa Bennett
Robert: Why do you think you are not on the Twitter SUL? iJustine was on it (til she was removed) - yet no Scobleizer - It makes zero sense.
- Jim Connolly
Shea: yes, I will ask to be removed. I know one person who removed himself too. (Jay Rosen, journalism professor). Why would I ask to be removed? Because it's a huge gift and one that I would feel I need to disclose every time I talk about Twitter. Look at how many times I'm asked whether I'm paid by FriendFeed. Well, everyone on the Suggested User List is being paid by Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
This feels like irc without the useful tools like tab-auto-complete. I keep wanting to ssh out and open irssi. . .
- Ron Hudson
There's a group of people I follow on twitter not to be part of their conversation but to inform conversations I have with people I know. My friends/acquaintances don't use friendfeed so I have little use for it. Facebook I leave for friends/family and twitter/web forums are for acquaintances.
- Jonathan
Jim: three reasons I have never been on Twitter's Suggested User List: 1. Technically I was difficult to put on the list before they got rid of the @ reply functionality (I was one of the 3% who turned that feature on). 2. I talk about FriendFeed all the time (I wouldn't add someone who talked about a competitor all the time to my service either). 3. I have had days when I'm too noisy...
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- Robert Scoble
Does anyone know or have links to comments made by people on the SUL about the issue?
- Mark
Robert: Thats a very honest and almost certainly accurate answer.
- Jim Connolly
Mark: I've had some contact with @adventuregirl.
- Shéa Bennett
There is a risk here of course regarding complaining about the SUL that one could easily be accused of sour grapes; that is, along the lines of, "How did THEY get on there, and not me?" Although I also suspect that the majority (the masses, if you will) on Twitter don't really care at all about things like the SUL, and are fairly blasé to the criticisms about it. I sincerely believe...
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- Shéa Bennett
Mark: honestly I've been following the SUL and other than when Veronica ripped me a new one for asking whether there was some sort of corruption to get on the list (big brands get on the list, for instance, and this list is totally corruptible because it is NOT a meritocracy) I can't remember ever hearing someone on the SUL discussing it in public. They know better because they are being gifted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of followers and they don't want to be removed.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: It's REALLY hard getting answers from people like Veronica Belmont or Pete Cashmore. They are both really cool people, but neither have replied to anything I have asked them, in relation to their SUL places. It's like they have been gagged.
- Jim Connolly
Shea: most people will not care, that's right, until they figure out they are peasants in a royalty system. Then they will seek out systems that are meritocracies. The tide is already moving.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: To your earlier point re: Tim O'Reilly - if the SUL system is broken and really just a method whereby new twitter users follow & forget, are these people truly "being gifted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of followers"?
- Jeff Pomeroy
I'm sure most of them don't wanna look a gift horse in the mouth. Is that the right metaphor? hehe
- Mark
Hmm, I'm not sure Robert. Nobody seemed to leave FB when they were at risk of being sold out - the numbers just went up and up. I think the people who truly fight for this stuff are always in a real minority - they seem more prevalent because they're loud! :) I think most people drift away from social networks when they seem to have run their course, like MySpace.
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: yes, they are because they are now owning the top of lists at http://www.wefollow.com and other places. Also they are getting PR on TV shows worth many thousands of dollars (journalists love picking sources with huge numbers after their names). Finally: SOME of these followers DO engage.
- Robert Scoble
Maybe Tim is too focused? he is not a chit chat BS guy enough to interest large amounts of people... Focus gives value but value that is high and very specific to certain (few) people. As you hinted Robert, value is not a matter of # of followers but of real impact /traction. People will listen and act more upon what is said on FF. FF is more value than traffic.
- Harscoat
Maybe if a few dozen of us from this thread @reply the big players asking for a statement on their placw on SUL they will respond?
- Mark
Scoble: I'm not sure they/we will seek out meritocracies. Like I said before it is not expected. I can go to crackberry forums or IRC if I want to be respected in a niche I think Facebook is more likely to draw people who want to be heard by their peers, because generally it is people you already have an established hierarchy of popularity with. It's high-school all over again. We tend to hang with our group and don't expect to be heard in others.
- Ron Hudson
Don't get me wrong - folk will put their name on lists, and that kind of non-committal stuff. But when it comes to the crunch and, you know, actually quitting over change, they rarely do.
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: Yes they are, because most of them are selling some kind of advertising on their sites / blogs / podcasts etc. These are often sold on volume of eyeballs, and these will have increased by tens of thousands of percent after gaining all those Twitter followers.
- Jim Connolly
"you did receive a gift. Advertising is sold by 1,000 viewers. Ask Ryan how much 1,000 people are worth. You did NOT earn that gift by any objective measure." - Rob Scoble, Feb 2009
- Mark
Mark: Unlikely. I think Robert is right - far too much to lose. Man, if they added me to the list, this time next week I'd be a millionaire! ;)
- Shéa Bennett
Calacanis was widely quoted as saying a slot on the SUL was worth $250,000 US.
- Jim Connolly
Robert: keep those threads coming, I get to follow good people on real-time, it's better than any Twitter SUL :)
- Nir Ben Yona
Harscoat: I don't disagree a bit. Ron: good point about people not seeking out meritocracies. It does pollute the community, though, and people do figure that out eventually. If anything Facebook went the other way by limiting EVERYONE to 5,000. That brings celebrities down to everyone else's level, which builds good feelings and keeps marketers out.
- Robert Scoble
It seems like the tech celebrity all seems to treat these systems the same, as places where they can acquire a mass following. I view myself as an average everday user of these systems, and view all three differently. And as they evolve, they all have different and divergent uses for me. It's not apples to apples... (also, tiring of SUL)
- Bill Kinney
Jim: It's worth far more than that. Mashable is close to 1 million followers. The account tweets about 15-20 times per day, most back to their own site. That network size is worth millions. TC isn't far behind, and is already saying Twitter is about 10% of their traffic. Jason's semi-serious offer was probably high at the time, but I think a spot on that list now over 12 months is worth easily a million bucks to a brand or power-blog.
- Shéa Bennett
Bill: yup. Today I was talking with Alexander. He says that people will continue seeking out "smaller" spaces. My wife likes Facebook better than FriendFeed or Twitter for that reason: she feels it's the place where she can talk with just her circle of friends.
- Robert Scoble
tidbit of info: spoke to someone last night (who shall remain nameless) that said they went up by >10k followers per day when they were put on the SUL. They still consider that their real follower numbers are closer to their organic growth rate.
- Bill Sanders
I hope all the big players move to FF soon so I can stop visiting twitter.com altogether.
- Mark
I mean, $1/user that you can hit 15-20 times per day, 365 days a year, and if they unfollow, you're going to get another 40-50,000/week because you're on the SUL? I cannot believe Twitter doesn't monetize this feature.
- Shéa Bennett
Shea: I think you are probably right - the numbers are insane and the SUL system is totally corrupt.
- Jim Connolly
Robert, saying that people like me "can't build a following on Friendfeed" is silly. There are only so many networks that you can put time into. For whatever reason, I've chosen Twitter. You've chosen FriendFeed. The fact that I have 10,000 followers on FriendFeed is good news, given that I don't spend time here. Heck, I had 5,000 on Twitter when I started paying attention and using the service.
- Tim O'Reilly
Thanks for coming Tim, do you agree with Robert that your SUL status is a "gift" and one in which makes it difficult for you to report on twitter honestly?
- Mark
And for what it's worth, the SUL isn't very useful except for bragging rights. I had about 60K twitter followers when I went on the SUL; my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don't know any better.
- Tim O'Reilly
After all, the SUL is giving you lots of clicks, and clicks = page views and page views = dollars?
- Mark
Tim: this post isn't only about you. But you must admit that you had fewer followers on Twitter than I did before you got added to the Suggested User List. You are getting gifted hundreds of thousands of followers per month. They aren't engaged. They won't do what you ask them to. Have you studied the hit rates the things you retweet are getting before and after getting on teh SUL?
- Robert Scoble
Tim: You deserve to be on the SUL, but many of your SUL buddies don't. It really stinks, the way some of those names were added, and people like Leo Laporte and Scoble were blanked.
- Jim Connolly
Totally, I only open up my facebook to those I have established relationship with - my choice to do so. I publish and share things of a more intimate nature there that I won't share on other services where my profile is more public. Facebook works quite well for that. I almost laugh at those that say that facebook has to match what twitter is doing or face extinction (and I've heard various arguments to that effect), that the "walled garden" will be their downfall eventually. I don't agree.
- Bill Kinney
Mark - being on the Twitter SUL has absolutely no influence on what I do or do not report about Twitter.
- Tim O'Reilly
Ahh, I see you have studied the hit rates and your observations match mine. These aren't "real" followers and they aren't engaged. Twitter did that to remove people they don't like from the top of the leaderboards (like Calacanis, Laporte, and me).
- Robert Scoble
Is this about numbers (i.e. ratings and money) or is this about engagement?
- SawyerTraining, Inc.
Incidentally, was iJustine removed from the SUL for something she said? Just wondering. I'd be interested to see if somebody on that list could be very critical about Twitter and stay on it.
- Shéa Bennett
Tim is unsurprisingly savvy on the matter: "my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don't know any better." In other words, organic followers are worth 10x more clicks/$$ than SUL followers.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Robert, did you recently share a Whisky with @Ev? What are the twitter bosses saying about the SUL and yoru complaints?
- Mark
Tim: how do we know that, though? If you paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars per year I would need to disclose that to my audience and it would be very tough not to be influenced by that money you're paying me. Twitter is paying you a huge sum of money in followers and yet you say it has no influence on you.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: I didn't bring it up with @ev (other than to make a small joke that he was building his own celebrities with the SUL, which he nervously smiled at). Why? Because I'd rather have these discussions out in public where you can see them and know that I'm not playing "footsie" with Twitter to get onto the list.
- Robert Scoble
That's just like the Robert we have known for a long time...
- Amit Nangare
Sure it changes Tim's experience of the service and (at the least) doubles his direct financial rewards from the service but he's presumably not working on a word of mouth contract with them. The only way to be *completely* sure there's no conflict of interest would be for oreilly.com to block/redirect all direct or indirect clickthroughs from Twitter and I'm sure we can all agree that's not feasible.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
If this is about engagement consider that for me most of my engagement is "downstream" with my followers (who are few but important to me) rather than "upstream" where I look for trends, leads, and insights. I only interact upstream on rare occasions when I feel I might have something to add (and this may not be one of those times).
- SawyerTraining, Inc.
Tim: It is impossible for you to be totally unbiased regarding Twitter, surely?
- Jim Connolly
I like to think that after Robert had that whisky from Ev, his life spiralled out of control, a bit like something in Michael Douglas' The Game. Three days disappeared in a blur, and when he woke up, the only working login he had left was on Plurk. ;)
- Shéa Bennett
It's impossible for any business to be completely unbiased regarding media outlets that cover/enable them, Jim. The best we can hope for is full disclosure, published conduct guidelines, and ombudsmen.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Mark: also that wasn't an appropriate time socially. His wife was there, it wasn't an on the record type event, and it's not nice to be a jerk on a Saturday night.
- Robert Scoble
Well I suppose twitter sends money to the SUL via followers, how is it it any different than Dell sending money to you via free laptops?
- Mark
Daniel: We are talking about a 6 figure 'gift' from a company, to a group of people who write about that company. This is a really big deal.
- Jim Connolly
@Shéa Bennett: Ijustine - man did that get old fast. That's what happens after 100 episodes of the same "yeah, yeah, you can ask ij"
- Asgeir
Daniel: it's pretty hard to figure out that people are on the SUL. You have to have a new account and look every few days. Some people are building tracking systems to watch who is added and who is taken off (iJustine was on for a while but isn't anymore and she now is losing followers, if you watch the charts). Disclosure? People who are on this list don't see it as a gift.
- Robert Scoble
It's simply a matter of scale, Jim. There is no realistic way for Tim to remain completely objective aside from eschewing Twitter altogether. As long as he is above board re: his dealings with Twitter that's really all that anyone can expect of him.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Mark: if I take gifts I disclose it. I'd rather have the followers the SUL gives someone than a free laptop. A laptop is only worth $2,000. Getting on the SUL is worth many many more times that.
- Robert Scoble
when i said "you", i didnt mean any of you in particular with the laptops
- Mark
"you" just sounds better than "one" - how english of me
- Mark
Good point, Robert. Perhaps Twitter should make it super obvious that people are on the SUL. It *would* be nice if text from SUL tweeters was visually distinguishable from regular tweeters so that we could know to (not) pay attention to it as per our preferences.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Regarding iJustine, I'm guessing she was pulled from the SUL early May? Check the chart: http://twittercounter.com/compare... If that date correlates, that probably says all we need to know about the benefits.
- Shéa Bennett
Robert - do you think all Twitter-related content published by SULers should include a boilerplate disclaimer such as "BTW I get zillions of clicks through Twitter's preferential treatment" at the top of every story?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Daniel: at Steve Broback's Twitter Conference the Twitter employees were visibly uncomfortable talking about the SUL. It's interesting that they added a "verified" icon to my account but they aren't identifying who is on the SUL.
- Robert Scoble
It was cool of Tim to 'almost' talk about the SUL here. The guy's a tech legend and is there on merit - I just wish the list was balanced so others who equally deserve a slot had one.
- Jim Connolly
Daniel: yes. If the New York Times journalists were receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars from a company they cover, wouldn't you expect them to disclose that?
- Robert Scoble
I won't argue with you there at all, Robert. I would be happy seeing disclaimers and graphics denoting SUL status. I was thinking the problem was more Twitter's than Tim's but I suppose it's both.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Jim: I wish the list was a meritocracy and based on your actual usage and value you add to Twitter. Personally I wish we had a list a lot more like wefollow.com or alltop.com than what Twitter came up with. Mark: yes.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: Journalism companies get paid by 1000 page views. That's called CPM. They then usually pay their reporters per article, or per word, or they are salaried.
- Robert Scoble
One reason is FriendFeed lacks a way of linking to other users in a post. On Twitter you can @timoreilly or @TechCrunch and I'd click on them and see if they are worth following. Since you can't do that on FriendFeed I don't bother to look to see if they are worth following.
- ChiliMac
Jim: I find it insulting that Oprah was added to the Suggested User List after doing only a dozen or so entries on Twitter. How did they know she would be a good Twitterer after only that few? How insulting is that to all the other people who put tons more work into the system?
- Robert Scoble
I don't think this SUL thing is about numbers, it's about ego and personality. Can you live without expressing your personal believes and have PR people do your job or say what you have to say out loud on public and give up the courtesy and goodies. Why is it about personality? Example: When Scoble came to visit my country (Israel) everyone could have a talk with him directly without...
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- Nir Ben Yona
ChiliMac: funny, I found you just fine and subscribed to you here. It's a different way, though. Here you put full URLs into the message. Like "hey, everyone, follow ChiliMac here: http://friendfeed.com/chilimac "
- Robert Scoble
Robert: If being on the list has negligible value as you proposed (and Tim essentially confirmed) in terms of click-throughs, are we perhaps being overly concerned with its 'benefits'? If Tim's network has gone x10 and his clicks are x2, it's likely that his gain is from a lot of people who followed him organically (i.e., normal network growth).
- Shéa Bennett
Robert: The Oprah situation took the SUL issue and exposed it for what it is; a 'buddy list.' Not based on merit or value. I only heard of Twitter because of you and Leo. There are hundreds of thousands of early users who only discovered Twitter off you and Leo's mentions. How soon they forget!
- Jim Connolly
Shea: perhaps we are overly concerned. But I notice that people don't often remove themselves from this list, and even when they do (like in Jay Rosen's case) it's only after really thinking through the ethical responsibility of taking a huge gift from a corporation that they potentially cover.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: exactly. I really hate it when companies love you when they are getting started because they need a few evangelistic users (ICQ started with only 40 users, so that's all you really need) but then they stab you in the back once they don't need you anymore. That's why more than a few bloggers now ask for stock or fees to cover their companies. Me? I will continue being a sucker for an entrepreneur with a great product or service.
- Robert Scoble
I'd prefer an tiny audience that listened and commented, than a huge audience that ignored me
- Mark Essel
value is the way and not arbitrary will from kings (ev and biz eg)... so this thread opens one's eyes to the not so fair and ego driven aspect of twitter as a cy ( I still remember @ev with the Trump daughter in front of the white house ;) - SUL = buddy list of @ev and @biz... liked Jim suggestion
- Harscoat
I agree about Oprah but Twitter wants names on there - people that the 180 million Facebook users they don't have on Twitter right now will recognise. Everybody knows Oprah. It isn't about being a 'good Twitterer' (which is of course a relative term - one man's P. Diddy is another man's Jack Schofield) - it's about new users going, "Hey, I know this person." and that validates the...
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- Shéa Bennett
I wish Twitter wold make it easier to connect with people that has same interests. wefollow is on the right track, but people add themselves to categories they don't belong in. The one with most follower under #photo has, as far as I can tell, never written anything about photos, or photo related news
- Asgeir
Engagement has value, but I understand most folks just like to read. I'm fine with that but engagement helps me improve my perspective while blogging
- Mark Essel
social networks is about money not about us or social or socialism;) which brings me back to the point: the sul list is pure advertising and should be treated as that. Put a logo next to it: Advertisement: we recommend these ppl - done. 'We' will find each other anyways and the big old economy corps will always bully Robert or Leo out of their way:(
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
there are the "cooperators" and "free riders/defectors" in life (in evo psy terms) - Robert is a cooperator (interested in the overall value for the group rather than his own personal interest)! pointing at entrepreneurs with great product and services for the community. Do not change
- Harscoat
Twitter is really just a broadcast medium, you can be influential and be on the SUL, but it's more likely you just have a bunch of people checking out the service once and never looking again. FF allows you to build value and relationships around conversations. Take this very thread. Which is more monetizable in the long run? I think twitter will just become another protocol, FF provides a far more valuable service. But that's just my opinion really, and it all depends on how YOU define "useful"
- John
I try to participate, but I have anywhere from 60 to 80 hours of work a week, and adding Twitter and FF to the list increased my hours. So I can't always participate even though I want to.
- RobinDotNet
Robert, I'm intrigued by your success and focus on this subject. I wonder, how do you think a group fairs compared to a single personality? At the moment, you're the king of social media in my opinion because of your engagement. The attention you command is ten fold the value of Ashton's million plus drive-by fans. But, could 10 top-notch social folks stuck to a brand (like Mashable's core Twitter brand) out-perform a single guy's personal touch? [Sorry, I did go a bit OT]
- Jason Nunnelley
The truth is the SUL list on Twitter falsely inflates everyone numbers who are on it, I suspect if Tim O'Reilly wasn't on the list his numbers percentage wise would be just about the same whether we are talking Twitter or FF. I also think that since FF doesn't have an auto follow method, like twitter, their is more thought put into who someone is going to follow.
- Kim Landwehr
Kim: That's true, but it's not just a question of auto-follow. One, Facebook doesn't allow one-way following - you have to be 'friends'. Two, for most people, letting somebody friend them on FB is a fairly big deal as that person then has access to a lot of your life (personal details, photos, etc - it AMAZES me how many people put their cellphone number on Facebook, and then just...
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- Shéa Bennett
I agree SUL is billboard advertising. Essel-i support that 'just like to read' is fine for some. That's how I participate with Wikipedia and I can see some on twitter will simply be there looking for new eddies in the river of news. FriendFeed and Facebook lead for those of us wanting greater depth: No matter if you are a platform or a "personality" how is quality engagement promoted...
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- Lane Rapp
Jason: I am often at a disadvantage competing against brands with many people employed like TechCrunch and Mashable. What was interesting was that I (and others like Leo Laporte, Calacanis, Kawasaki, et al) was able to compete before the SUL propelled them above me and into a different league. At least on Twitter. Everywhere else I'm still kicking their behinds. Which is worth studying,...
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- Robert Scoble
I am not on the Twitter SUL. I have 15,000 on Twitter and 2,700 on FF. Could it be that there are fewer peeps on FF?
- Beth Kanter
Beth: that's a pretty common ratio, but doesn't match anyone's who is on the SUL. But, you miss my point. On Facebook (which has far far far more people than Twitter) TechCrunch has far fewer fans than I do but on Twitter he has far more, all artificially gained. If TechCrunch were smart he'd have those people also follow his fan page on Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
But you bring up an interesting point, Beth, for another thread. Why aren't your followers good followers of yours? I imagine you've told them about friendfeed. Why don't your followers listen to you? I thought it was just me.
- Robert Scoble
I just don't use facebook at all like i do FriendFeed or Twitter.
- Geoff Schultz
What about the shear time to keep up with the topics of the day? For me twitter is all about reading quick short headlines, getting a pulse on what's going on, and then making a decision on what topics are important enough to engage deeper on. FF, FC, blogs, etc are the place to go deeper into the conversation. If you buy off on that, then the math comes into play,Twitter is the grand...
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- Robert Wilkins
Oprah, by the way, has 1,619,000 on Twitter and 760,000 on Facebook. I wonder how many followers Oprah was gifted by being on the recommended follower list, but you can see why Twitter is doing this. The higher Oprah's numbers are on Twitter the cooler Twitter seems and the more hype it gets and the more celebrities want to chase Oprah, even if they are for fake followers who don't mean that much. Brilliant strategy on Twitter's part.
- Robert Scoble
yea, oprah=cool. you toting your camera maybe not so much to mainstream, glad to see the new hulk photo ;-)
- Lane Rapp
Lane: Oprah is cool? Have you seen her Tweets? Not cool at all.
- Robert Scoble
I have very different uses for each: Twitter, Facebook, FriendFeed...
- Kelly A Nelson
Robert, Oprah's tweets are indeed superficial. Totally not engaged. She would do well to use twitter to engage both her audience and her causes between seasons. My joke was framed sarcastically enuff, but was to support your entire discussion here, that the SUL is rigged for twitter and celeb marketing.
- Lane Rapp
Meh. all these celebs taking twitter away from us geeks :( its ours :(
- Mark
Ellen Degeneres does a good job in my opinion
- Lane Rapp
Mark, give twitter to the masses, sometimes I get the feeling FF wants to remain a niche. I can't say I would be disappointed as long as the lights stay on. We can contribute like we do on NPR.
- Lane Rapp
Lane: they said that about Twitter two years ago. The thing is here that FriendFeed has nooks and crannies that can let us hide from the masses a lot better than we can hide on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Beth, I think the difference between Twitter and FF is two fold, compounded and a big indicator as to why Robert may fair so much better here and FB. Twitter simplifies the competition (if there is such a thing, though people perceive it's real, so it is). It's all about followers and extremely competitive to gain them. FriendFeed is culturally different, and conversational. This kind...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Yes we can hide away in little corners, and even go private rooms if we want a little insider chat. Friendfeed is our underground movement!
- Mark
Something Robert has done that works best in more conversational SM is brand himself as an all around cool guy. He's not "Robert Scoble the tech guru." Mashable and Techcrunch are very limited in their scope, so readers are likely to read their blip about their preferred technology and move on. Robert engages his readers on a multitude of topics, much more conversational. He'll actually...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Robert, thanks I'll do my part to welcome the masses while I learn more about the nooks and crannies. I noticed how all the FF user help rooms are active, but the Facebook user groups have limited discussion.
- Lane Rapp
Lane (WARNING: shameless promotion) I'd be happy to host more conversations in newb regarding Facebook if you like, post tutorials, videos, etc. Are you more often a question source or an answer source? <edit> Meaning, I'd like to have someone else post help there if I start pushing my readers to the group.
- Jason Nunnelley
Anyone heard any news about new friendfeed features? Sure would be cool to be able to post images and things in the discussion thread.
- Mark
I hate to hit and run, but 90% of the people I follow I follow because I've seen them say interesting things and participate here.
- Steve Lowe
Is the FriendFeed back-end on Scala already? :)
- The Pageman
Jason, I'd like that and think the rural, the elder, the poor, the disabled, and much of africa who get better high speed net access will as well. As fast as these platforms are growing the users have to help out with the concierge desk. I've got questions and I'm still newb enuff to answer some with empathy
- Lane Rapp
Lower counts on friendfeed IMHO is due to the fact FF lacks the sexyness of Facebook. The FF User Interface is cleaner, simpler but lacks eye candy, of the FB I do think UI is better than Twitter, but lacks the 3rd party apps which promote usage. The 2 ff aps on the iPhone are #horriblizers ( original word from @lovinkat)
- derikp
If more people used clients that don't require following people to group them and/or see their tweets, the followers would n't be half as relevant on Twitter. I converse with lots of people I don't follow on facebook and FriendFeed.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Robert, the bottom line is people follow people for three reasons: content, content and content. The question is what difference does the SUL on Twitter make if most people just ignore boring content and move on?
- Jason Nunnelley
My mom joined Twitter today (that tells me its not Myspace, so much for my original thesis) but she didn't necessarily want to follow this suggested list, but from talking to her, it sounded like it was "fostered" onto her. I don't know what the steps look like since I joined a long time ago, but it sounds like for a newbie you are pretty much going to auto follow these people
- Stephen Pickering
I have more friends/followers on Friendfeed than I do on any other site
- Joe Dawson
the followers picked up from SUL are folks who are getting started -- it's like the old PCH magazine subs: renewals and engagemt were horrible but the audience inflation paid back in ad dollars. The social web is about "finding" an audience, just like the old days before you could use web clout to open the spigot and drive a massive audience. The SUL is a Web 1.0 artifact, like cutting...
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- Dan McCarthy
from BuddyFeed
Robert, et al: There was some important information shared in this thread yesterday, and I've put a lot of it together in a post for Twittercism, focusing on comparisons between the follower counts of Tim, Robert and iJustine. Appreciate your thoughts. Cheers. http://twittercism.com/suggest...
- Shéa Bennett
isn't 10000 followers on friendfeed just about the same percentage of the community as 600000 on twitter?
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Stephen, you have to unclick the people you don't want to follow in the SUL.
- Jason Nunnelley
If what you say is true, then the terms need to be changed. As for them not transferring to any other social network, why is that even necessary? There's a great study out there that states 90% of your network will be lurkers anyway. You'll never know that they exist, however, it's still comforting to know they're there....
- Mike Shields
Robert: Now that you mention it, I will tell them about FriendFeed.
- Beth Kanter
Robert: I hate it when there's a "food fight" over ideas. Please remember that Twitter is still trying to find a business model. These $100,000 gifts are basically Calacanis "Bucks"... you can't actually buy anything with them except the promise of VC investment. VC investment is simply mortgaging your future.
- davem51
Was it wrong with Radio from UserLand had some suggested feeds to follow? No. It was a smart business idea and Adam Curry invested to get more readers. Smart attempt to save Userland from failing.
- davem51
I met Tim O'Reilly in 1990 working the O'Reilly booth at Usenix. It was one of the most interesting conversations I have ever had at a conference... Tim knows how to present idea but more importantly he has the biggest ears in tech. He's got an Open Source Mind.
- davem51
After my Heart Attack in 2001 - I am grateful when I wake up each day - it means I get another day! The challenges I face everyday are simply blessings to me now :) Having great friends in my life and here on the the Internet makes living much richer. My Father always said, a man is judged by how many friends he has not by his toys. After all, you need 6 friends to carry the box when this life is over :)
- Owen Greaves
I woke up today. Someone, somewhere in the world can't say that. I'm thankful I can.
- Carlton Hackett
Wow--never thought I'd wish for a "Don't Like" button or link, Robert!
- Kathy Fitch
Robert's comments are very important particularly for political & development work.
- Justin Long
Also important for business marketing.
- Justin Long
U made me upset in first look then I realized what u mean and I found Im not not one of those. Hope you are not angry sir and wont fire me..
- Abhijeet Singh
to comment or not to comment.... that is the question...
- Kim
Are trending topics on friendfeed called "friending topics"?
- Larry Roth
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) What was the question again?
- don manu
Robert, I'm up to the CHALLENGE of not being "useless." Actually, my business communication students at SFSU just heard my initial remarks which included THREE RULES FOR SUCCESS in BUSINESS [and everything else!] The rules: LISTEN CAREFULLY, READ CAREFULLY and FOLLOW ALL DIRECTIONS!
- Shari Weiss
Apathy is the big killer of networks.
- Justin Long
I'm here. That makes me not useless, I guess?
- Celia
Robert Wilkins: it is my test to see how many spammers, bots, or jerks are following me.
- Robert Scoble
I get alot of spam about sites who gives you followers, whats the point of the followers have no interresting to give to you? And whats most crap is that they have enabled auto-follow back.. grrr :P don't sign up on those sites people.!
- Qbat
I like the constantly refreshed list but it doesn't half distract me from my own comment!
- Joshua Davidson
All you have to do is insult people and then they come :-)
- George Deane
Notice how many of us follow when we are told we are not following.
- Sandy McMerty
So, you're saying that people who don't use FF are spammers, bots or jerks ?
- Djordje Lukic
So when you figure out how many there are, How are you going to auto filter them out?
- Robert Wilkins
I read, I clicked, I arrived. I guess that means I'm not useless.
- Mike
This comment intentionally left useless.
- phil baumann
Seriously though let's not take the term 'followers' too literally. Just because I read a column doesn't mean I share the authors views. Just because you say lets discuss this on friendfeed doesn't mean I log onto FF and.......ah. OK....What is thy bidding?!
- Joshua Davidson
You suck, man. I refuse to be a minion. Oh, wait... shit...
- Joey Gibson
DeVries: oh, I understand. We need better notified control.
- Robert Scoble
Well, those who don't do what you tell them are actually more useful. No for you directly, but for the society. They mix your directions with their own to create new ones.
- Kirill Petrovsky
"Follower" is a weird term. "Watcher" may be better. Follower implies action and engagement, and anybody who's used social media for more than 20 minutes knows that just isn't true.
- Jared Smith
Have I responded quick enough not to deemed useless. I feel a little baaaaa now.
- Crispin Heath
inscribo ergo sum (I write therefore I am)
- Jeff Newfeld
Nothing, just seem deficult to follow more threads. But that is probably not needed because the whole conversation is in once place. No need to multitask.
- Daniel Graversen
is it just me or is the most used "plugin" on FriendFeed twitter?
- Qbat
Actually, I find FriendFeed useless. I was reading an article about Twitter being useless, but the news get faster there. We'll have to say thanks to TwitScoop for that.
- Dragos Pirvu
I never use FriendFeed. it just agregates all my other feeds into one feed. thats all :D
- Zafarali
Dragos: wait until you compare search here to Twitter before calling it useless. Among other features.
- Robert Scoble
No bot me, no. Count me out for that one.
- Ton Zijp
dragos: all the news on Twitter is on FF, plus FF has better conversation - what do you think is missing?
- Chris Rogers
FriendFeed enables comments on your tweets.!
- Qbat
Robert Scoble: I think the proliferation of tools for Twitter let you slice and dice the data the way you want it and that is helpful to many. I do like the Web interface for FriendFeed, but imagine the possibilities that some cool tools could bring. No?
- Larry Roth
So then we need someone in your vast network to write us a little app that will map the Twitter users who comment on FF and then block all the rest! Or at least create a "Real" Group in TweetDeck for me.
- Marshall Huwe
You don't want followers, Robert—you want minions. I've got a few myself, and they're great.
- Mistletoe Glen
Is this the way to San Jose? err ... I mean Friend Feed?
- Tom Horn
Twitter should have a option that people who want's to follow you must write a small text for WHY you should let them follow you or the other way around
- Qbat
Did you know that more than 90% of all statistics are made up? ;)
- Tim Young
I'm getting tired of having to block the spam followers everyday.
- Ron Hudson
Working on both FF and twitter - but FF is easier to follow comment threads
- kathysd
What is interesting is I am already following most of the people who commented here which proves my point.
- Robert Scoble
I was carefully looking at this list the other day http://spinn3r.com/rank... - turns out many people on it barely/if at all - use friendfeed.
- Nir Ben Yona
Can you guys slow down - I can't keep up :(
- Al Fuller
I think Twitter and FF provide different things and there is space on the internet for both :)
- Tom Griffin
I've had friendfeed for quite a while, but I've not used it much, how do I expand this chat?
- Ron Hudson
Followers can not be useless. At least you can be proud of the sheer scale. And I believe, you don't want to have a conversation with thousands people at once. That would be truly useless.
- Grigori Milov
I am here with you - I think it is that only half want to have a say.
- Robert Freeze
On Twitter I talk strangers V on Friendfeed I am among friends
- Asgeir
I'd like twitter to have a "report spam" button, this would avoid quite a lot of hassle...
- don manu
Ron: just click on comments link under the topic
- Qbat
ya like that! thanks. How do I do that?
- Ron Hudson
Why is it important that followers comment & discuss U2, @Scobleizer? BC U R green?
- Petter Griph
Amit: bots don't follow directions from people who are not their owners. No bots here.
- Robert Scoble
FriendFeed should get a comment button under all the comments
- Qbat
So, 47% will choose to do their own thing and not comment on here. Wait - what? Doh! And 65% won't read the comments that have already been made because there are already 'too many' :-D
- Andy Bold
Qbat: click on the time under the post and open it in a new window
- Robert Freeze
Andy: I'm in the 35% that read the comments. Didn't want my lame joke to be a REPEATED lame joke. :D
- Tim Young
Robert: unless perhaps the bot has directions to comment on every Scoble post?
- Brian Sullivan
This reminds me of that "following directions" test from grade school. 1. Read all instructions before beginning. (2 -> N-1). Lots of crazy instructions which we all did. N. Don't do any of the previous instructions. Turn the page over, write your name, and wait.
- Don Faulkner
Robert Freeze, that never worked for me
- Amit Morson
Go watch Perez Hilton's video about being beaten up last night and going on techcrunch
- Mark
Robert Freeze that worked. that should be labeled a bit better
- Ron Hudson
Andy: I didn't tell you to read all the comments! :-)
- Robert Scoble
If I reply here that I think it's less than 53% I may actually prove myself wrong. So be it.
- Arnd Jan Gulmans
Should be a rewind and play button so you can play back all the comments.. like google wave
- Qbat
Lots of users are already on the service but, under utilize it. Really still don't understand how powerful the service is or how to use the filtering system.
- Eric Logan
And how many minutes/comments-in does the Scobalizer stop reading the comments? Opps, I just see that we are not supposed to "read" to comments...only discuss them.
- Stephen Price
Thats cause they were busy seeing what I am doing!! LOL, your not the only person bossing people around.
- T.S. Elliott
How big is the percentage of your followers that doesn't follow you?
- Arnd Jan Gulmans
Click here for 101 ways to get rich ... Woooops, sorry wrong percentage group.
- Chris Spencer
The reason I don't use friendfeed very much is because there is no SocialScope support on my blackberry. As soon as I can get a sweet blackberry app I'll be here more.
- Ron Hudson
Tim: I'm a 65%er :) Though I am now in the 13.9% that skim comments to see what's going on. And also in the 29.4% of people managing to find replies to their comments in the Scobleflow. Definitely in the 100% of people wanting a Comment link at the end of each conversation since I moved back to Safari. Oh, and also in the 100% of people who take conversations off topic while making up statistics.
- Andy Bold
Tom Griffin, I saw that, and it's "usable" but it's nowhere near the elegance and simplicity of say UberTwitter,SocialScope, or TweetGenious. I use SocialScope. It is an absolute Killer app.
- Ron Hudson
Do I get partial credit for skimming the comments? No? Sorry, master.
- malackey
Cool, so, I'm in the 47%, 35%, 29.4%, 100% and 100% ranges! I'm all over the place. Thanks Scoble and Andy for helping me learn something new about myself.
- Tim Young
I see the "224 more comments" bit on FF and know I don't need to add another comment. Erm...
- Ian Betteridge
To follow or not to follow, or to passive follow versus have an active conversation?
- Peter Simoons
More stats: 41% will miss Robert's reply to them in the reply flood, 26% will see it and not answer, 22% will have ADD (the tech curse) and already be doing something else, and 1% will see the reply and see it as an excuse to make up some more statistics. (And reply that I definitely have not read all the comments ;-) )
- Andy Bold
It's all about the user experience though - it's easier to comment to someone's question on Twitter by quickly clicking @ than click a link through to FF, faff about sizing the screen on the screen to wait for the comments to load, read them and then post, so yeah, I can see why many respond on Twitter than FF. I'm doing that more myself as currently very busy with work projects. This...
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- Sally Church
And, somewhere in the horde, somebody will belatedly realise that he somehow manages to fall into Robert Scoble's "useful" list. Darn it - will need to post more signal and less noise now! ;)
- Andy Bold
I refuse to fall prey to this ruse, Robert. Oh...wait... ;)
- Robert J Taylor
I added you to my Live acct weeks ago. No reply.
- Bret
I'm too sleepy to read all this right now.
- Daniel Zarick
nice one :) you should do an NHST on that hahaha
- The Pageman
They should change that from "followers" to something like "watchers" or "subscribers". As in "I have a subscription to the Scoble lifestream."
- Steve Lynch
from twhirl
So is this a casual social experiment to determine rough percentages of active/rabid users who like to engage/participate with those they follow?
- Eden Hensley
I completely agree! Unfortunately I might be considered part of that 53%! The only reason I am responding is because someone else I follow re-tweeted it. I personally have over 5000 followers but only regularly interact with 50 or so. Isn't Social Media about conversation and being engaging? Hmmm......
- Robert Dominguez
Robert: Very interesting experiment, one should use there own judgment over there (twitter) regarding bots and spammers.
- Eran Even-Kesef
Andy Bold, I played with iPhone page too, but it's just a pain to have to open the browser. The blackberry environment is all about easy simple communication. If I have to jump through hoops it breaks down. Not to mention a friend feed experience without push is not a friendfeed experience.\
- Ron Hudson
99% of your followers will not read the 250 comments proceeding this one, and I am one of those 99%
- Steve C
That'll teach me for ignoring Twitter for a few minutes a couple of hours ago! Late as usual.
- Graham Stewart
Hey, much better here! Twitter sux.... after getting locked out of @freddavis for months with NO reply from Twitter, even after you tweeted @ev and @biz (thanks!)... so I my new Twitter name is @fucktwtr ... but much better to use FriendFeed!
- Fred Davis
I almost thought that you have a big ego. :)
- Shuuro
followers are for cults. twitter should change to readers/reading, because at the end of the day this is all about reading
- Jim Posner
Adding my opinion to the rollcall, though I've just realized that i actually have no opinion on this.
- Chris Foley
Yes to much noice. Maybe a way to mark comments as good could be a way to filter the comments.
- Daniel Graversen
Adam, I think that's a limitation with the threaded discussion model of FriendFeed - it becomes very, very difficult to follow a conversation once it goes beyond a hundred or so comments. Of course, Scoble will come up with a search filter which makes it easy in about three comments from now, just to prove I'm wrong... :)
- Ian Betteridge
I didn't realize followers were supposed to do what their followees said. Does that mean I have to open those links to help me make money on twitter? I was just using it for communication. Silly me.
- RobinDotNet
Robin: communication takes someone on the other side listening and talking back.
- Robert Scoble
Useless to YOU, perhaps. I'll bet they are getting value from the info you rpovide. Social media doesn't have to be about communication, it can be about "transmitting information" or some other morer restrcitive definition of what goes on. Some people just like to listen!
- Jim Tierney
Agreed! There are those like me who sit in shadows, read and do not comment... oh wait, crap!
- Danny F Santos
Talking back is definitely good, but I'm still not clicking on those links telling me I can make money on twitter. I do talk back to people (as evidenced here). :-) So you have a lot of followers who don't. Do they even tweet? Can anyone explain why people join twitter and don't tweet?
- RobinDotNet
Jim: I'm not a broadcast, though. Are people who just consume really useful?
- Robert Scoble
And BTW, if you don't realize the value your personal brand gets from having those 48,000 followers whether they reply back or not, you're missing something!
- Jim Tierney
Robin: people are used to consuming info and not talking back. I understand that. Jim: there is some value in having lots of consumers, yes. I just aspire to more.
- Robert Scoble
lucky you that non all of them have an active role in your FF... how can you think of have an interaction wth so many people?
- Paolo Galli
from IM
I think you math is waaaaaaaay off. Looks like somewhere around 0.3125%(300/96,000 - rounding up) of your followers are useful, meaning you should edit your comment to say 99.7% of your followers. Really makes me wonder the true value of twitter if one of the top uses gets this percentage of useful following. The other possibility is that as followers increase, the percentage of attentive/usefull/whatever-you-want-to-call-it decreases.
- Robert D. Fraser
Paolo: I've had interactions with tens of thousands of people here on friendfeed, just not all at the same time. Robert: you're right. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Do you think those non-tweeting-twitterers sit at their desk and read all the tweets coming across? Or are they looking for something specific.
- RobinDotNet
Scoble: You are asking questions and experimenting with stuff that I find interesting. Just reading through this thread provides some interesting insights into users' perspectives on Twitter.
- Matthew Schrock
Is that southeastweb thing from a bot or some kind?
- RobinDotNet
Robin: I think it's a spammer. But at least it's a spammer that follows directions. That said I think I'm going to block it.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble you really can do it? I'm very impressed :) I'm jocking... I think many users on the web just read information but doesn't partecipate... it's to difficult ;)
- Paolo Galli
from IM
I like threads like this. As well as pointing out who it may be useful for me to subscribe, that I haven't already, you get the occasional comment that allows you to increase your "People blocked" count by 100%...
- Andy Bold
from email
Although at this point I would welcome someone giving me instructions as to the next steps in life - far too many options. Maybe I should crowdsource it, but I am certain not to like the results
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Robert: To be honest, I think sometimes folks are intimidated by the breadth of knowledge that you and others on FF seem to have and your ability to engage in discussions. They may feel that they need to say something 'brilliant' or not say anything. I will admit that that I fell into that category up until recently. To your (and others') credit, once I took the plunge I found that this wasn't the case. You guys still know WAY more than I do, but that's one of the reasons I'm here - to learn!
- Alex Hellstrom
@scobleizer you crack me up sometimes! There, see this post went to you in both places... But I don't really feel like discussing it... ;-P
- Walt Ruppar
LOL! Great job of being satirical! You have a lot of great followers. :)
- James Stratford
Just sayin I could follow directions and discuss here if I wanted, but not interested in this discussion. However it did make me laugh that you called 53% of your followers out on not being able to follow directions.
- Walt Ruppar
Alex, uhm like totally and stuff ... and uhm. Ya know. Cool.
- Jason Nunnelley
BTW: where'd you see my reply come in from first? FF or as a mention over on twiiter?
- Walt Ruppar
Twitter to me seems a big mess of information, I can't keep up with it! FF sorts the mess out nicely and without the spam. I much prefer FF.
- Matthew Davis
Jim: you're right of course. I was just trying to be an egotistical bbbaaaahhhhssssttttaaaarrrrrdddd to get a conversation going. Jason: what did I drop? I didn't do it on purpose.
- Robert Scoble
Damn it Robert, you got me to make an account here three days ago, what more can I do for you? ;-P
- Shane Trammell
This is an easy way to get rid of bots. They don't have anything intelligent to share (like me)!
- Carlton Prest
WTG sheeple for getting conned into commenting here... wait. um.
- Scott Breakall
Robert, what if people want to reply and be engaging but don't feel like they have anything of value to say / to add to the discussion?
- Wang Yip
Scott: Perhaps, but at least I un-liked it...
- Walt Ruppar
Robert - what is the point of this? I took carrot...
- Liza
Robert, I just put the lime in the coconut. Now what?
- Sue Radd
Robert-Great discussion at 140, BTW. On another topic just watched the Perez Hilton video and trying to get my head around that rant..if you haven't seen it you should watch both sides of the feud with will.i.am. Interesting use of twitter and video to address insult/outrage.
- Jim Posner
I follow Mr. Scoble, but I feel no particular obligation to be useful to him for anything.
- Pat Rice
from twhirl
Twitter rocks, but I'm starting to see more value in FriendFeed
- Adam
I just drove from Pierre SD to Fort Totten ND, so I'm a little bit groggy. What exactly was I supposed to do to pass Robert Scoble's version of a Turing Test? Also, is it really important that people think I'm not a bot? I bet there is still money in AI.
- Matthew McCowan
Is that percentage of useless followers greater or less on Twitter. (I think I can predict your answer!)
- Curt Mercadante
"I would never want to belong to any club that would have someone like me for a member."
- jacek
This thread is taking me a long time to read when I haven't had coffee yet today.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
So, my understanding is.. one who doesn't give 'directions' to his followers is useless too. Mmhhh! yeah
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
Robert - there's nothing egotistical about it! I'd also be remiss if I didn't add that I get plenty of thought-provoking value from you even when in "read-only" mode. Understandably my usefulness to you is nil in those cases. However (and I'm echoing at least one other commenter here: IRONY ALERT) I've found that by the time I comment in this type of thread, my exact thoughts have...
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- Jim Tierney
I just hope Scobleizer never directs me to do something self-destructive. I hate it when that happens.
- DGentry
I don't think lurker are useless :), I don't think number of followers have a great significance, Friendfeed is a Virtual Life Streaming, and in virtual life (as in real life) some people don't have a direction, they live (however i prefer LIVE with all capital letters, and have a direction!!!).
- CantorJF
So if we post here, are we teacher's pets? :)
- Daynah
Members of the "TV Generation" are just not used to follow directions... (they sit and consume with chips&beer and maybe do some shopping via telephone - these are a well trained habits and hard to change)...
- Arne Krueger
I thought I'd contribute further to this discussion... you're welcome.
- Mark "DerBingle" J
I'm jumping up for another cup of tea, be right back...
- Deborah E. Bifulco
There clearly comes a point of scale where FriendFeed fails to delivery clarity...nothing useful on the first screenful or last... does that mean that 47% of your followers are unable to provide significant value?
- David Race
Will there be and end of this direction? Do we want to close directions? I think somewhen even directions become useless
- Vedran Rudelj
delivering significant value to ff and/or the subscribers depends on the roi they get... some people are just not using it - as it is intendet to be used. so what!?
- Arne Krueger
If technology fails you, next time you are in Memphis lets get together for lunch. Great value remains in human contact.
- Jeff Milton
Commenting so I'm not included in the useless category... Also, I'd love to chat about this the next time you're around the FF office.
- Ross Miller
There are 3 kinds of people in the world: 1. Those that follow Robert Scoble because he doesn't act like he's too good to talk to us. 2. Those that follow Robert Scoble because he is known to follow everyone back, and therefore he is good for "inflating" their follower count. 3. Those who have no idea why they are following Robert Scoble.
- April Russo (app103)
4th type of person follows for great feeds that generate discussion on FF.
- Mike Nencetti
April, you forgot the fourth category: 4. Those who don't subscribe to Robert Scoble but find far too many of his posts liked and commented by their friends.
- Scott of Two Countries
But the only reason why Robert generates great discussions is because he is part of that discussion. He doesn't just drop & run, or only talk to people he thinks are "somebody", completely ignoring the rest of us. While he may have a big ego, it isn't so big that he thinks he's too good to have a real conversation with us.
- April Russo (app103)
Rob: I have almost 42,000 followers here and 96,000 followers on Twitter, which comes out to 43%. Glad someone caught me on my math! :-)
- Robert Scoble
I feel compelled to comment here... odd
- Jan Ole Peek
Mark: who is the puppet master and who is the puppet? I'm answering you now.
- Robert Scoble
Just following directions. Too many Mark's here though, I wish FF signed thing with our usernames.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
You can change your display name any time by clicking on your name in the top right corner.
- Mark
Robert: communication still occurs when unidirectional, surely the works of Socrates convey concepts to readers even today?
- Mike Chelen
Wow! It wasn't till I finished reading through almost all the comments that I got what Robert was trying to say :) FF good, Twitter bad. But I can't complain since it was Leo Laportes constant references to FF that got me to join and Roberts comments that got me to try and really understand what FF is all about. Initially FF was a little overwhelming and the only reason I've stuck it through so far is because of the higher quality of content for a (mostly) passive FFer.
- Anant Gairola
Writing that last comment took me 10 minutes! Really really wish there was a good FF iPhone application!!!
- Anant Gairola
Anant: the content here keeps getting better as more and more people join (which is quite a few every week lately, my numbers are going up much faster here than on Twitter, the tides are starting to move).
- Robert Scoble
FF is the only place I can dip into your content 'at will', Twitter is to noisy and makes me dig a lot further to see the flow of conversation and any associated references.
- Threepwood
I like to lurk most of the time. I usually don't have much to add by the time I am able to read the whole thread.
- Dan Douglass
from Nambu
Are you happy with how friendfeed is developing? What would you change, if you were in control? I love the daily digests, I prefer something filtering the best content from those I follow
- Ryan Singer
This is a wicked and interesting post on FriendFeed =)
- Qbat
by the way some of my twitter followers complain that, like you, I redirect them to friendfeed on every post there. Some say I have to choose between the two and they will follow me there, but not on both services.
- Kostantinos Koukopoulos
Kostantinos: it's an open question how best to interconnect FF and Twitter. remember that there are a wide range of options, including sending comments or posts, and sending posts automatically or manually. the feedback from readers is helpful if it can be used to find the right balance
- Mike Chelen
53% of your followers will leave you and then what? insult the other 47%. You can't just say it that way. You need to treat your followers with respect. Especially when you are your biggest fan. People will leave you in a heartbeat.
- Jack Scalfani
Be a nice little follower, and drink the damn kool-aid!
- James
Thank you to Thomas Hawk who made this photo of me (it was shot in FriendFeed's headquarters -- they have some "Hulk" gloves sitting on a table there. I put them on and Thomas shot this on the day they showed us the Real Time features).
- Robert Scoble
I decided on putting some green in a selected area as the total green icons are just too hard on my eyes. I get it that people want something fast. I like that your face has a tad orange for contrast. :D
- mrsha
Good going, Robert! (To Iranians reading this thread: You have my support, dear Iranian readers. My wishes are with you as you face this struggle, and my sincerest hope is that you prevail in creating the change you want.)
- James (!?)
I was wondering how long it was going to take to get the green hulk back up in support.
- Luke Kilpatrick
Bravo Robert ! thanks for your effective support to Iran by recommending all of us tools like FF that make us less blind and ignorant.
- Harscoat
Robert I have been thinking of: Neda, people who want to "be heard", raising awareness to influence change, and the green overlay on our icon... Why don't we do a "Web Neda's day" vs a "minute of silence" by putting all an overlay of Green on our websites for 24 h (a little bit like Google put a different logo once in a while on its home page) . Her name was Neda, you explained it means "beautiful Voice". Robert You are the incredible hulk, I am sure you could be the one turning the web in green for 1 day.
- Harscoat
My worst nightmare is losing one of my own sons in front of my eyes. Yesterday we saw a father hold his daughter as she died in the most horrific way I could imagine. Those images kept me from sleeping well last night. Neda is her name. Her dad was holding her as she died. He named her Neda, which means "beautiful voice." Yesterday his beautiful voice was silenced. Today he is the father I'm thinking of.
- Robert Scoble
Yes, her eyes looking up at the camera and father repeating "stay with me" strike to the core of life (and death)
- Ronald Barnett
"We make a few simple points about the events transpiring over the past week in Iran. The Iranian regime is an evil tyranny. It supports terrorists and terrorism. The United States has a debt of honor to settle with it for the kidnapping and mistreatment of American hostages thirty years ago. That disgrace is not simply a matter of history. It is a disgrace in which Iran's execrable president personally participated. We remember." -- http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive...
- Craig Eddy
She has become the face of an entire generation in Iran. I can't even imagine being this father. His daughter's face is going to be lots of places he looks and it won't be a pretty smiling face, but the one we all saw on YouTube yesterday. That's not how I'd like to remember my sons, if that ever happened to me.
- Robert Scoble
Craig: I've been thinking about that too. Iran has sacrificed any moral authority it had to tell USA off. Now we see how brutal its government is.
- Robert Scoble
Seeing her [Neda] look directly in the camera for her last breath was more sad & horrifying than seeing all the blood rush out of her seconds later. My heart broke at that moment.
- Michael J. Carrasquillo
Michael: yup. And she, at that moment, became the face of Iran's new generation and -- I believe -- changed the world forever in a way thousands of deaths couldn't. But what a father's sacrifice it took.
- Robert Scoble
Here is a comment by a spectator "At 19:05 June 20th Place: Karekar Ave., at the corner crossing Khosravi St. and Salehi st. A young woman who was standing aside with her father watching the protests was shot by a basij member hiding on the rooftop of a civilian house. He had clear shot at the girl and could not miss her. However, he aimed straight her heart. I am a doctor, so I rushed...
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- Amiroo ™
Amiroo: that is another thing that has changed. The fact that so many of us have the ability to tell the world about what we are experiencing and show it to others via video has changed the world in ways we are just starting to understand.
- Robert Scoble
It's a terrible tragedy for any father to witness the death of his own children. May their sacrifices make it all the more less likely that more people have to suffer in the same ways. This shows that no longer can governments hide tyranny with repression of the people. The people will be heard, and their voices will change the world. Yes Robert, this changed the world forever in ways that a war with thousands of deaths could never. This is much more personal, to anyone who sees it.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
She knew the risk she was taking by being on the street, and thus even by 'standing aside' was taking part. “Those who join the battle are all in the front lines”
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
no doubt about it. Now we all can feel the importance of UGC for the future of our world. If we don't have these social movements around you may not even know about the things happening in Iran. (remember CNNFail!?)
- Amiroo ™
Michael: for me as well, it was her eyes looking (or not) that has stayed with me vs. the bloodied image at the end.
- Ronald Barnett
Aaman: all those who go on the streets are brave. My wife's relatives in Iran all say they haven't left their homes since Saturday.
- Robert Scoble
Aaman:There's no battle, there is one sided murder
- Amiroo ™
What stayed with me the most is the father's reaction. That was truly horrifying.
- Leon Freyermuth
Amiroo: There is one sided murder, but that doesn't mean there is no battle. Those people in the streets are battling plenty.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
My father used to say, to be willing to achieve anything, you have to be willing to pay any price.
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
Rob: yes but we hope they don't. The only possible way to win this is by silent resistance (you know like Gandhi). There's isn't any winner when violence steps in.
- Amiroo ™
Amiroo: Neda wasn't violent. She was silent and her "crime" was just being in the streets. That's one reason her image has even more power. If she had been violent her image wouldn't have had as much power.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I need to post your first comment. It is heartbreaking, thoughtful and filled with compassion!
- Myrna
Yeah that's the way to go though such a sad way unfortunately
- Amiroo ™
Robert is correct, and that is the sort of non-violent protest that starts and completes great movements. I have not seen many images of violent protesters. I have seen an image of protesters caring for a wounder policeman though. This IS the behavior that the likes of Ghandi taught. To engage in true non-violence protest, you must be willing to pay any price.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Amiroo: It is unbelievably sad, but the power that she and her father bring to this struggle, may just be the power that's necessary to avoid any further large scale conflict, either between the people of Iran and their government, or between the US (or Israel) and Iran. We can hope.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Rob:Hopefully, but the anger that this may generate between people may lead to violent acts and slogans that actually I think the government needs to block them. I really hope people continue that way they did till now
- Amiroo ™
Amiroo: I cannot agree with your statement "I think the government needs to block them" . That is precisely the problem, is the governments around the world trying to dictate what their people can say, do, and watch, and listen to. That is precisely the problem in Iran today. I pray that that image doesn't lead to more violence, but I also understand that at a certain point, there is a necessity to fight fire with fire. Let's pray that the government of Iran can see the light before the violence escalates.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Rob:If it goes that way it won't be any fight fire with fire it will be punch with fire
- Amiroo ™
Amiroo: Don't underestimate the power of the people, and don't overestimate the loyalty of the military to the government. Often it is the combination of these two factors that make violence all the more unnecessary.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Robert Your powerful comment of Neda's face not being what her father wants to remember recalled for me a recent case right here in the USA of a family that has made desperate efforts to get their daughter's fatal car accident photos off the Internet which were leaked by the police. What is this saying about us and our use of the Internet? It's the same argument that was brought against...
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- Melanie Reed
Melanie: I am a free speech advocate. While I would not like it, I am going to defend it. Her face has become one of the iconic images of this struggle. How much has it changed the world? But yes, free speech is not always fun and games. I have to defend speech that often is objectionable if I am to defend our first amendment.
- Robert Scoble
this moment is the perfect time to remind everyone that the most successful resistance is the kind that allows you to live for another day; to _continue_ the fight. yes, there are times when tragic things happen, but this is _not_ the goal. martyrdom is not success. i know this video will reverberate around the world. i only hope the proper message will accompany it, too.
- MikeAmundsen
Rob:Well the problem is most (if not all) of this violence hasn't made by typical military forces, there are lots of so called Basij forces which are in the same side with the government also I think even if it succeed by fighting violently there would be such a big price to pay
- Amiroo ™
Robert, I am as well. Ironically, I am in the midst of writing a piece on this to expose a particular rhetoric that cuts it off. However, as with all things, there is always a line that protects us from extremes (which are very horrific things) while protecting that freedom of speech we cherish. Any freedoms we have, if not exercised with love, become in themselves a prison to ourselves and to those who are hurt by their corrupt exercise.
- Melanie Reed
Amiroo: Then let's ensure that all our own thoughts are on the side of success without violence. The more people that think about a given outcome (and talk about it, etc) the more likely that is to become the truth.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Would like to second the early comment about Iran's leaderships lost ability to claim moral authority of any kind. Its clear their oppressive government is more than willing to use brutal, thoughtless, violence to keep control. Imagine what they would do to the world with a nuke. They may not have ordered her killing but they built their power on the backs of brutal militias willing to do it and have not called them back.
- James Watters
Good G*d, I didn't know that was her father with her. That is just heartbreaking. :..(
- Laserone
:( Happy father's day to you, and god bless your sons:(
- Mahyaa مهیا
I too would like to add to the heart felt comments left here. Nothing quite brings it home more than seeing that innocent young woman lose her life like that. I only viewed it the once as I felt it was wrong to want to view a second time and felt almost voyeuristic in the worst way imaginable. It was brutal, sad and upsetting. Let us think of her family at this time aside from all the politics.
- Kevin J Hatton
Robert I have been thinking of: Neda, people who want to "be heard", raising awareness to influence change, and the green overlay on our icon... Why don't we do a "Web Neda's day" vs a "minute of silence" by putting all an overlay of Green on our websites for 24 h (a little bit like Google put a different logo once in a while on its home page) . Her name was Neda, you explained it means "beautiful Voice". Robert You are the incredible hulk, I am sure you could be the one turning the web in green for 1 day.
- Harscoat
"It's important not to overstate the benefits of ideas," he says. "Quite frankly, I know it's kind of a romantic notion that you're just going to have this one brilliant idea and then everything is going to be great. But the fact is that coming up with an idea is the least important part of creating something great. It has to be the right idea and have good taste, but the execution and delivery are what's key."a comment
- Harscoat
from Bookmarklet
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
- Donald Wilson
I just saw the video. I'm not sharing it here, but I'll remember it for the rest of my life. I really have no words.
- Orli Yakuel
Thanks Robert, sometimes we forget what means to be FREE!
- Simone Lovati
from BuddyFeed
Simone: being free is not the same as being heard. The Iranians aren't fighting for freedom. They are fighting to have their voices listened to. The guy they are supporting isn't all that great either, if you look into his past and, anyway, above them is a religiously-run government. A fight for a free Iran will play out another day. This fight is simply to be heard. That's what that girl died for this morning.
- Robert Scoble
No Robert! This is the key point! They are not free to speak, they are not free to say NO and for this reason they are not be heard!
- Simone Lovati
from BuddyFeed
Simone: that makes sense, I agree, that if they were heard they would be free. I'd rather focus on what they want, rather than pushing American values, though. Freedom is gained step by step. Heck, even here in the United States we aren't completely free and aren't completely being listened to. Just try to get a gay marriage, for instance.
- Robert Scoble
I agree sometimes people just forget there is always someone worse off than you... Life is crazy..
- Chris Henderson
Hi Robert why aren't you in Green overlay for your icon? (or in your hulk icon). I think it is simple to show the world we are green in support of free Iran election. but maybe I miss sthg you know as you are more up to date on the situation than many of us.
- Harscoat
Harscoat: because being green isn't going to help anything. I'd rather spend the time building better searches and trying to find more information.
- Robert Scoble
We should all # her name but what was it
- Michael Mooney
Thanks Robert. I agree with what you say. For me being green just show the people in Iran in a very simple visual manner that we are in thoughts with them. This is only a first and not very concrete step I agree... and we should do more in sincere and respectful memory of this women of Iran... This image of the abyssal waste of a life, her life is devastating.
- Harscoat
LOL Rob, she's green on twitter. Hey CNN person calling in from Iran just said he uses FF, fb and twitter.
- Myrna
sorry Rob not on ff but I am green on twitter...
- Harscoat
Harscoat, same with me. Just changed to green avatar on twitter. Don't know why I didn't on FF.
- Myrna
Robert: I don't necessarily agree. It helps people ask "why are you green?" And people who weren't paying attention (because it wasn't in the news spotlights) are because they noticed that /everyone/ was green. I am green on Twitter/FF/FB.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Totally agreed Robert, locally i hear continuous arguments whether the opposition in Iran is any different regarding Nukes or Politics. My only reply was that it's not the issue now, Iranians simply yearn liberty and freedom of speech that we were born with. The opposition has progressive views about freedom and the people deserve our support. With all that said, i personally fear the...
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- Majento
Every tweet we make (for good or ill) is possible because of the sacrifices of those who came before us (great or small). We did not earn these freedoms. They are a gift given to us without merit. In many ways, those who are on the streets of Tehran today have earned the very freedoms that we casually discount. I am grateful that someone like myself has been given the many gifts necessary to speak freely about the issues I care about - whether noble or ignoble.
- Lorin Olsen
I just want to give a shout out to John Marmie! His moon project launched today! Congrats! I hope you find water!
- Jennifer Ragde
@leolaporte do you think those of us who, knowing how to but, don't add green overlay are less supportive or less sheep?
- lelapin
Because green is the color of Islam but also the color of hope. It is a good sign that Islam and hope should not be the monopoly of the fundamentalists.
- Harscoat
It is also the colour of the opposition party. I was asking because I wasn't sure if turning green was in support of democracy or just the opposition party.
- Johnny Worthington
Green is support of the opposition party. Those who say otherwise ARE the opposition party :)
- Joel Bennett
As Jerry would say "not that there's anything wrong with that" but I still don't understand Americans jumping into the fray.
- Joel Bennett
1/ @al3x question // is it better than a concept exists because you talked about it, even if eventually it is not you who gets credit _ 2/ @loic // the ones who execute should be the ones to get credit _ 3/ maybe people like @al3x would share more often their many business/hack ideas, if the ones executing would mention more often these 1st ones for inspiring them in the first place...
- Harscoat
Wow isn't even close to describing how cool this is. Plus, over video you can't experience the noise, the wind, the jet fuel smell, and the full HD experience (behind us planes are launching too, and there's just stuff happening all over when you're on the flight deck).
- Robert Scoble
I am surprised they let you get that close! Especially that second vid with the arresting wires just in front of your feet!
- Robert
Robert: I was surprised too. Eddie, no, the pilots are the coolest. The skill (and confidence) it takes to land one of these at night is just freaking amazing. We got to hang out with the Pilots at night and they are really cool people. I gave each one a Poken and we had a lot of fun with that.
- Robert Scoble
Clearly they're not running background checks like they used to. ;)
- Brett Schulte
"...and the full HD experience..." That's real life high def right there.
- Dave "Freedom 35"
What did you use for video, Robert? Did the mic survive? :-O
- Ken Sheppardson
Incredible video. Now I have Danger Zone playing in my head. What an awesome experience you all had. Mahalo for sharing!
- Nathan Kam
Ken: I was using a Canon 5D MKII with a 70-200 F2.8 lens for these with a R0DE microphone. The mic survived just fine. Colin: it was a total blast, but the highlight of the trip was taking off from the ship. What a rush and one that I'll never be able to totally explain. One of the guys just called it "dynamic." That about nails it. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Incredible Robert but what was the occasion? Not just anybody can have this experience.
- Colin Clarke
Ken: actually I was using a 16-35 F2.8 L series lens for most of the videos. Colin: the Navy brings many press and VIPs on board for this kind of "embark." The Navy is getting into Twitter and friendfeed and other social media and wanted us to get an upclose look at the ship and what 5,000 Navy sailors do while at sea. They know they can't do public tours so they bring people on board who can show off what they do to other people. Hope I did OK as your proxy.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, in this case I wish I didn't have a proxy :) Hopefully that day will come some day.
- Amit Nangare
It won't match being on a live aircraft carrier, of course, but the USS Midway is docked permanently in San Diego as a museum and open to the general public. http://www.midway.org/
- Frank Scavo
One more video that makes me feel compelled telling my accountant I really _need_ this camera... No 24p yet, but those are some damn fine lenses you can get, and not a hint of the "rolling shutter" syndrome, at least on not-close inspection.
- Oskar Lissheim-Boethius
Way cool! How did your lungs handle the jet exhaust?
- Jim Lavin
Jim: it didn't bother me too much. Being in a smoky bar is far worse.
- Robert Scoble
Dude I am x Navy that brings back memories... Go Scoble
- Chris Henderson
I was expecting to hear Kenny Loggins Danger Zone or some other Top Gun music as the bachground music. :-) Cool Video!
- John Wallace
amazing opportunity - trying not to be too jealous ;)
- Andrew Clinick
Makes me jealous, I've always wanted to be on a flightdeck of a carrier during operations.
- Jim Lavin
Jim: it's always been a dream of mine too. I've gone to many an airshow and always wanted to get on deck to see them shoot off a plane. The fact that I got to witness about 40 launches, a good many of them at night (those pictures didn't come out so well) was just a great thrill. Keep dreaming, sometimes dreams come true!
- Robert Scoble
I spent 10 years in the Air Force as a weather forecaster and I always loved to set out on the flight line and watch the jets take off. It is so fantastic to see them go from a dead stop to straight up in no time at all. Thanks for sharing the video and pics, you always seem to have so many neat things to share!
- Jim Lavin
First, living abroad can allow individuals access to a greater number of novel ideas and concepts, which can then act as inputs for the creative process. Second, living abroad may allow people to approach problems from different perspectives. For example, in some cultures (e.g., China), leaving food on one's plate is an implicit sign of appreciation, implying that the host has provided enough to eat. In other countries (e.g., the United States) the same behavior may often be taken as an insult, a condemnation of the quality of the meal. Thus, those with experience living in foreign countries should be more likely to recognize that the same form (i.e., surface behavior) may have different functions (i.e., meanings) in different cultures. Third, experiences in foreign cultures can increase the psychological readiness to accept and recruit ideas from unfamiliar sources, thus facilitating the processes of unconscious idea recombination.
- Harscoat
from Bookmarklet
Here's the list: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub... I need your help in improving it! How did I make this list? I scoured my business cards and my contact list and we brainstormed and came up with this list of 325 people. It's just a starting point.
- Robert Scoble
The green lines, by the way, are people who are on friendfeed. That tells me whether they are really exploring the 2010web or not.
- Robert Scoble
Got any other people who should be on this list? Let me know here.
- Robert Scoble
Over the next few days this list will get dramatically longer and better.
- Robert Scoble
*waving* hey Robert. have you met Xiao Fengjin? Founder of Linkool Labs behind the Juice app. http://www.linkool.biz/ and her Twitter http://twitter.com/xiaofengjin -- try not to base opinion to heavily on FriendFeed use. You'll miss out on some cool folks overseas not using it. :)
- So Much More Hawaii
Some on this list are journalists/bloggers. Some are very techie/developers. Some are marketers. Some are VCs. Some are entrepreneurs. Some are CEOs. Some are researchers. Some are power users who are pushing the web in interesting ways. I am looking to build a diverse group of people who are pushing the 2010web forward.
- Robert Scoble
I don't know exactly who are the folks who are doing it - but the people who are making the great "detect your browser and if a mobile browser, show a well made, fully functional but mobile browser friendly version of the site" (see Gawker's site on an iphone for example) are among those making a big impact on the 2010 web
- Shannon Clark
I suspect the people who will are not on the list yet - they are in china, india, or perhaps south africa or denmark and not on the Anglo Saxon radar
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
So Much More Hawaii: I agree. I'm off to look through my Twitter and Facebook lists next. Joelle: that's why I'm asking here, so the list gets better.
- Robert Scoble
Good point by Shannon - fixing what's there might be a bigger impact, but it will never be recognised as such.
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
But everyone on this list will eventually be on friendfeed. Why? Because I'm building a private group to discuss some stuff with them. That'll help us all eventually.
- Robert Scoble
*ack* that was me Robert. So Much More Hawaii aka Christine Lu. (i'm in Hawaii this week for Hawaii Tourism Authority) :D -- anyways, previous comment still stands. Go through all the folks you met in China last year. oh and the Poken folks. they're up to cool stuff beyond what they have on the market right now.
- Christine Lu
Robert, send you a request to add some people in mobile 2.0 area.
- Rudy De Waele
Rudy, names, we want names! Heheh. Thanks.
- Robert Scoble
not directly the 2010 web persay, but I think what companies such as Barco are doing at the very highest levels of display technology (their LED screens were used, some 2000 sq. meters of in fact, for the amazing Eurovision set in Moscow) will have a huge impact in years to come on what we all use for our displays. If display resolutions finally start to really rise (on average) that will impact the web considerably
- Shannon Clark
I'm mostly familiar with developers, since that's my profession, so I'd add: Damien Katz (developer on CouchDB), Terry Jones (founder of FluidInfo), James Tauber (creator of the Pinax Project), Brian Aker (developer on Drizzle), Mikio Hirabayashi (developer at Mixi.jp), John Resig (wrote jQuery), Malcolm Tredinnick (probably the most active Django developer). There are definitely more but that's off the top of my head.
- Eric Florenzano
Marco Derksen - (founder of marketingfacts.nl, www.upstream.nl), Boris Veldhuijzen van Zanten (Next Web, Wakoopa),
- Erno Hannink
You should put there tarpipe folks...
- Marcos Marado
Wouldn't it make sense to start out with less people then increase until you find your getting interesting, relevant conversations Surely with too many people the conversation would quickly become overwhelming quickly, and maybe less focused
- Chris Lloyd
Chris: there's a method to my madness, but, yes, I have a hard constraint that I have to live within.
- Robert Scoble
Matt Jones & Matt Biddulph of Dopplr / Felix Petersen - Founder at Plazes.com, now Head of Product Strategy Social Location at Nokia / Christian Sejersen - Mobile Engineering, Mozilla / Raimo van der Klein - SPRXMobile & Layar (watch that name!) / Greg Skibiski - CEO Sense Networks / Ilja Laurs - CEO Getjar / Tommy Ahlers - Founder Zyb - CEO at Wayfinder Systems - now Head of LBS at Vodafone / -> most of them all at http://mobile20.eu conference in Barcelona in June :)
- Rudy De Waele
I don't envy your task, but if you get it right it could be very important for future web development. Will anything be published from the group? To aid future web developers?
- Chris Lloyd
Robert, maybe Bill Balderaz at Webbed Mkting. About to release an awesome monitoring tool that will push the folks in that space. And maybe Beth Kanter who does wonderful things in the non-profit marketing space.
- Gregg Morris
Chris: this list will form the core of Building43 and will discuss the 2010web in a private friendfeed group that will be opened to everyone else on June 11th.
- Robert Scoble
And some of the guys at the W3C Mobile Web initiative - http://www.w3.org/Mobile/ Maybe Daniel Appelquist? Also add Mike Rowehl (coded Admob, Mowser, Skyfire, etc...)
- Rudy De Waele
there seems to be an overwhelming US bias to the list at the moment - Europe? Asia?
- Russell Lack
If you're making it a closed discussion group elite, I urge you to try not to just have all the known incumbents - they're the people that made 2008. Get some new thinkers in there, perhaps people that see the needs and weaknesses, perhaps a few critics, and by all means people from outside the core US/UK/Australia/Canada/France/NL group. Of course it depends what you want to...
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- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Russell: got any names? That's why I put it out here.
- Robert Scoble
That's going to be an interesting list. Has it changed much from your older lists? Some user names both on ff or twitter would be great. I'm going to check to see if I can suggest some. Maybe Michael Fruchter should be included too.
- Carlos Lorenzo
If we're including journalists, how about Caroline McCarthy?
- Chris Lloyd
Carlos: I'm adding names from Facebook right now. The list is getting longer by the minute.
- Robert Scoble
You'll be testing the limits of google's spreadsheet app by Wednesday
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
I see other Jasons, but no Calacanis..
- Simon Wicks
Is there any particular reason a) why you're making this list b) why anyone should help and c) why anyone should care? The 2010Web seems more like a Robert Scoble PR campaign than a project with any depth. Where's the substance behind this? Someone please point me in the right direction.
- Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: a) I'm building a community of people who are fanatical about the Internet for http://www.building43.com which is why I'm doing it. b) why should you help? Well, because maybe I've helped you along the way. c) why should anyone care? You shouldn't. Move on.
- Robert Scoble
Interesting mobile 2.0 choice, Rudy. I'd say Andrew J Scott, Rummble Founder & CEO, should be on the list (@andrewjscott).
- Alex Housley
Robert. Is building43 a non-profit outfit?
- Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: no. It's a community sponsored by Rackspace.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, this is a great exercise. But why do you assume those making the biggest contributions are the ones who are fanatical about the Internet?
- Kevin Werbach
Kevin: because I have to start somewhere.
- Robert Scoble
Kevin, plus, fanaticism without contribution seems pretty empty. And keep in mind what my goal is: it's to try to get more businesses and people into the 2010 web. To do that I'm going to showcase people who are changing the world with the Internet. That will get their attention. Then we need to show them how they can do it too.
- Robert Scoble
Is there any danger of building43 becoming an A-list ivory tower or is this going to be the tech savvy giving back to the cyber peasants? Just curious (which obliterates point C of my previous interjection)...
- Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: yes, there is that danger. But it will be short lived because after June 11th you'll be interacting with them.
- Robert Scoble
on a country (Fr) & corp filter level I can mention those 2 guys in France. For the corporations they really use and promote 2010 tools to the highest level of those orgs: @ChristianFaure, @dlafont (Denis Lafont-Trevisan) - both Cap Gemini but I do own 0 stock there. They just really get it and they are on FF. Another one that really gets it / use it = Régis Gaidot @rgaidot. also in Germany/austria @bodenseepeter toursprung.com (not on ff). Alexandra Carmichael: Curetogether.com.
- Harscoat
So in other words, you're channeling Barry Goldwater -- extremism in the defense of the Internet is no vice.
- Kevin Werbach
Kevin: heheh. I'm just looking for people who are using the Internet to improve lives, improve businesses, or just plain build something cool. Stuff like Epochrates that's helping doctors around the world. Or Zappos. Or Twitter, friendfeed, etc.
- Robert Scoble
I think you can add Nicolas Dengler co-founder of cocomment and co-founder of mixin.
- Frédéric Sidler
June 11th. I'll be there man. Just make sure you've installed a helipad on top of that building though :)
- Andrew Eglinton
The challenge is that most people don't want to change the world. They want something safe and comfortable. I'm with you -- the fanatics are the interesting ones, and life is too short to hang around boring people. Anyway, since I'm listed as an "Obama tech advisor", I'd suggest people from that world -- Beth Noveck, Susan Crawford, Vivek Kundra, Aneesh Chopra, and some others not yet announced. What they are doing is still in alpha, but is incredibly important.
- Kevin Werbach
Kevin: are you in DC? I'll be there first week of June and would love to get some interesting interviews about the broadband policy stuff.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, DM me and we'll tawk. I'm in DC about once a week, helping out and making trouble.
- Kevin Werbach
You've said how you made the list, presented the list. But why are you making the list? (I hate lists btw -- when presented by magazines, newspapers, websites seem like blatant pandering - to both the people on the list and potential consumer)
- Brian Sullivan
Brian: a few reasons. For one, I want people who have done something interesting. Having someone like Tony Hsieh or Joe Hewitt or Kevin Werbach or Tim O'Reilly as a founding member of a community will get attention. Having 200 of them will get a lot more. Second, I want to focus my content efforts on these people for the first month. They have more to show about what the 2010web will...
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- Robert Scoble
Robert: so the bottom line is that you are pandering? ;-)
- Brian Sullivan
Brian: no, we are making sure we have a good list.
- Robert Scoble
There's a method to our madness. The first 100 people you invite to start a community will decide how that community goes for a long time. So we're being very picky about who we start with.
- Robert Scoble
In response to your 'method' Robert. I agree, the first wave of people will decide the story of a community - providing they have ownership of it. But building43 is a top-down model, what's to say that the people you invite will want to buy into the ethos of your community? Doesn't community begin with collective impetus, collective need?
- Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: Building43 is both going to be top down and bottom up. June 11th you'll see just what we are building (it's not just me working on this) and you'll understand. Hint: it's very friendfeed centric.
- Robert Scoble
Well in that case I'm sold. Final question from me, and incidently I appreciate all your responses above,will there be a provision in building43 for artists?
- Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: I have designers in mind, but how far off of graphic design and web design do you want to go?
- Robert Scoble
Robert: While not being sure exactly where you're going with this, it might make sense to include at least a few (call it a control group) of stodgy old CIOs and/or a person or two from the likes of MSFT, ORCL or others that you would say don't "get" the 2010web (full disclosure I work for MS). Without this I think you risk having some serious groupthink even with the luminaries on your list. Maybe this is planned for later in your efforts but I can't help but think it would be a benefit from the get go.
- David Ziembicki
I wish I was doing a big contribution, yet I am sitting here and waiting for it to come. So that I can use it :)
- Alpay Erturkmen
David: I have a bunch of Microsoft people on the list. CIOs? I'm gonna go for stodgy old companies later. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Better add David Hyatt (founding member of Safari and WebKit) and Maciej Stachowiak (another lead developer)
- Charles Ying
Robert, I see some startup people, but the list looks blogger/journalist heavy. What about those developers who may be the Bret Taylor of tomorrow, like Jesse Stay, Cesare Rocchi (Posty) and others like them.
- Rob Diana
Oh I do so use Friendfeed :-) And thanks @ericflo!
- Terry Jones
And, BTW, FluidDB is nearly nearly out (as a restricted alpha). End of June, we hope.
- Terry Jones
This is all fine and dandy but we've got to have last mile bandwidth. Why isn't there a pure Conduit Communications company out there that doesn't have another agenda? The phone companies have their legacy phone business, the cable companies TV. Fiber to the home is what we need. Not geeks. All those people on that list times a million mean nothing compared to fiber to the home. Why is...