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Marcos Marado

Just married!

December 27, 2008 from tarpipe - Comment - Like - Share

Alternating Reality Books, Susana Sousa, Ricardo Saraiva and 18 other people liked this

Just married! - Marcos Marado from tarpipe

26 more comments

Congratulations ;) - Nuno Miguel Correia

Parabéns! - Bruno Miguel

Congratulation!!!!! :) - directeur

Thanks - Marcos Marado from fftogo

parabens :) - Carlos Morgado

no way! Amazing! CONGRATULATIONS MARCOS! - Zee.

Congrats! - Admiral Anika

Mas ainda és um jovem! ;) Parabéns. - Luis Canau

Parabéns :) - Nuno Monteiro

Parabéns! Agora é que é tudo a sério. :-D - Ema Martins

Como dizia "o outro": Ai Jasus que está para acabar o mundo! - Carla Graça

é verdade, confirmo. "o outro" disse isso mesmo!... - Carlos Canau

Muitos Parabéns! - Jose Furtado

Thanks everyone :-) - Marcos Marado from fftogo

Parabéns Paula e Marcos. Muitas felicidades e sorte também! :D - Pedro Machado Santa

Parabéns! - Marco Neves

Parabéns, pombinhos :) - Armando Alves from twhirl

Muitos parabéns! :) - Tiago Jorge

Parabéns!! - Bruno Miguel

Parabéns! - Frederico Marques from twhirl

It was a quick year to pass by. Today is time to celebrate! - Marcos Marado from fftogo

Make the most of it. :) - Carla Graça

congratulações! - Carlos Canau

Happy Anniversary! - Admiral Anika

Parabéns! - ovigia

Thanks guys :-) - Marcos Marado from fftogo

Parabéns atrasados... E Jasus!! O mundo não acabou ;-) - Susana Sousa

Michael Fidler

These are all done in Pencil.

March 18 - Comment - Like - Share

Baard @ Pixum, Tyson Key, ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0, and 259 other people liked this

Impressive - M F

63 more comments

Great work! - Nia

I reshare this to Ideas & Inspiration room :) These are so realistic! - Kristian Salonen

I'm sorry but this is unbelievable:) I'll give credit to the artist upon more convincing proof! The photogenic look of the tiger and lion really helps the artist's case though:) - Roney Smith

I'm with Roney... I find this hard to believe... or maybe I'm just jealous that I can't even get stick people right! - Jasmin Smith

I don't believe it. Too amazing. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

I'm with Rah - Shey, Jamaican of FF

Only the lion looks like its drawn - embee

The bear and rhino look drawn, too. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

very very talented. Wow they look like B&W pics you know photography. - Gabriella Sannino

These are amazing, were they done by you? - Angelo Rodrigues

Nice photographs - Rafael Robayna

@michael, if they weren't drawn by you, at least tell us who the artist is and the link - LouCypher

Link please? - Jason Wehmhoener

wow - Carolyn Chan

being slightly skeptical, i'm going to say these were done with pencil by a printer of some sorts... #justsayin - Enrique Gutierrez

they're beautiful, but skeptical as well - Jennifer Van Grove

Would need to see higher quality images to see if they are pencil or not - too many jpg artifacts to tell. - Luke Addison from twhirl

Stupefied. - Parth Awasthi

want proof - Jérôme Flipo

Wow!! Yeah it's pretty amazing what they can draw with a pencil nowadays, deviantART has lots of great pencil art. - Kol Tregaskes

Michael, who is the artist? - Kol Tregaskes

wow, cool! - Sarah Perez

you cannot win on the interwebs. draw some crap it doesn't get noticed. draw something amazing in pencil and people say it's not real. - Joe Breen

I'm really happy everyone liked these. They're my most liked entry to date, Thanks! There also seems to be some question about whether these are actually Pencil Drawings.I can assure you that they are.When I get home, I should have the links. I have more drawings, too. - Michael Fidler from fftogo

O_O WOW...Stunning - Anna Haro

Wow, these are stunning!! - Susan Beebe

Yes, especially the tiger. Reminds me of that "Tiger, tiger burning bright." - Melanie Reed

Alright, Mike - I believe you. These are awesome. Good job! - Enrique Gutierrez

HOLY CRAP. - Chieze Okoye

no way! - Mister Groonk

Thanks Enrique, I'll post some more soon. They are a little more obvious than these ones. As Luke points out; without being able to look closely it's impossible to tell. He's right; but up close it's more obvious. I'll upload the originals to Picasa later, and then you'll be able to zoom in with any photo viewer and see for yourselves. I can't believe how many people liked these. A few people have reposted them already. Thanks! - Michael Fidler

Absolutely awesome, Michael. You are extremely talented. Everyone should repost these pix and help to make you famous. You should be doing this full time - you obviously have some passion for this. Bravo. - Chris Loft

These are really beautiful, Michael. Do you sell them? - Shannon Jiménez

Chris, I would love to say they're mine, but it's not true. I've had them for a while, but I'll find the artists names. It will just require a little backtracking. Besides, they deserve the credit; all I did was find them:-) - Michael Fidler

Cut the bullshit! :) Photos are very good. - Burçak Çubukçu

I draw alot in pencil, but they are amazing, the best for me is the girl, that is the most photo-like one. :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

I agree Rob, the girl is amazing. My favorite by far! Wait until you see it close up! It's really had to tell, even up close! - Michael Fidler

Burçak Çubukçu If these were photographs, they would be very good. As Pencil Drawings,(which they are), they're amazing. - Michael Fidler

Wow, amazingly realistic - Threepwood

@Michael Fidler did you draw them? How can you so sure? - Burçak Çubukçu

That is my pencil drawing :) http://picasaweb.google.com/Burcak... - Burçak Çubukçu

dont look like it - Prakash

@ Michael Fidler don't push so hard :) - Burçak Çubukçu

@Burçak Çubukçu I can't tell if your serious now or just kidding around. I hope your just having fun! If you are serious, I've never given you a reason to question my integrity, nor do I ever intend to. However, the second set is up now, so judge them for yourself, but don't judge me! http://ff.im/1BJh5 BTW, I messed up and reposted the shot of the women again. Oh well. Hope you like them:-) - Michael Fidler

@Michael: try deviantART, not Picasa, to submit your artworks - LouCypher

WOW "I can't believe it's in pencil" - sofarsoShawn

LouCypher, I know it well, but I don't see why I would want to do that. I hope everyone knows by now that they're not mine? I'm sorry, but I can't say it any clearer than that. - Michael Fidler

nah, i don't believe it is done in pencil. i am sure it is photoshopped :) - hasin hayder

These would be great even for photos. - tomit

i'm not able to comprehend - Varun Shenoy

More comments here: http://www.bannination.com/comment... - donato

I'm finding this both interesting and humorous at the same time. There's a separate message board where this post is being discussed and it has another forty comments on it already. I think its great how this has created some lively discussion, considering that when I posted this I was doubtful if anyone would even like it. When I went to sleep last night there was only had 3 or 4 likes... more... - Michael Fidler

Very interesting. I would like to see them up close and in person...just to make sure. Bill said it's real and possible. Your 2nd set of picts look like pencil. Nice work in finding these! - LaFern Cusack

Kol, I can't thank you enough! Kol found another post which helps to prove that these are done in pencil. I had my doubts about a few of them because I collected them from several different sites over time, but the site Kol found has done a great job pulling together an impressive collection of these drawings and more. Take a look - http://www.flickzzz.com/2009... - Michael Fidler

Actually there are more than what this site shows. There's an entire set with the cats(little cats), which I have, and there's a new portrait set. - Michael Fidler

Found your post here, Michael. :-) I tried my best to find the artists. - Kol Tregaskes

Amazing and very very very good.... Very impressive ... - Linda Zeek-Bobinski

fake. http://lenscratch.blogspot.com/2009... Even if your not claiming to be the artist, these are photographs, well except the woman, thats pencil - james foor

Yeah we know, thanks though, James. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Excellent pictures - how long did it take you to scan the photographs into Photoshop and then edit them? The only pencil that has come into contact with these "drawings" is the Photoshop pencil. A tip - stop trying to fool people into thinking you are a "real" artist, because all you are doing is cheapening proper artist's works whom have spent hours creating real pictures as opposed to a few minutes on a graphics editing package. - The Wimp

A bell does ring here. And I am remembering why I was so attracted to the tiger...and the lion for that matter. These are exact replicas of prints I had in our bedroom when I lived in Dallas. I had bought the prints (in color) at a department store, - Melanie Reed

Actually, I have learned quite a bit about these drawing since I made this post. Not only have I discovered all of the artists, but I've learned more about how they are created. They are always copied from a photograph or painting, but usually a photograph. It is extremely time consuming and detail orientated work. There are many other artists besides the ones featured here who practice... more... - Michael Fidler

Most of them have portfolio's on deviantart.com and their work is truly amazing even if they are copies of other artists work. I suppose with this level of detail, they have to start with something. Nevertheless, I'm still in awe of their talent. Melanie, the animal prints you refer to are from a very well renowned photographer. The originals are B&W I'll look it up later but I do have... more... - Michael Fidler

wow; they're unbelieavably beautiful. - liladreams

Paul Buchheit

Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)

July 7 - Comment - Like - Share

ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,, Charles Frith, Vladimir Yashnikov and 149 other people liked this

Good point. - Robert Scoble

123 more comments

I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms. - Swaroop

Including GNASH - the open source alternative - would solve that problem - Bogdan Costea

yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it. - Zio Bonino

Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great. - Rodfather

Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho. - Matt Mastracci

Is that Steve Jobs disguised as Zio ? - Swaroop

@Swaroop Yes, we do. Like HTML5. - Benjamin Dobson

@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :) - Zio Bonino

@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature - Swaroop

Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance. - Paul Buchheit

@Zio You're the real Steve Jobs - Swaroop

Microsoft moves much too slow to force new standards these days. - Louis Gray

@Louis: IE8 flunking ACID test :) - Swaroop

What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already. - Rodfather

h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is. - Paul Buchheit

I know some of the guys behind silverlight. It is some great technology. Too bad it's from Microsoft and is closed. - Joe Beda () from iPhone

A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait. - Paul Grav

Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open. - Paul Buchheit

MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5. - Paul Grav

Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha! - .LAG liked that

Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code." - Guy Vander Heyden

.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability. - Robert Scoble

Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too). - Swaroop

Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java - Ed F from Nambu

Does this mean the next Silverlight release is codename Seppuku? - Jay Cuthrell

Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open. - Rodfather

Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions. - Paul Buchheit

Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it? - .LAG liked that

So Google's NaCl http://code.google.com/p... (now integrated within Chrome/Chromium) was just a temporary workaround, right? - Jérôme Flipo

Use HTML 5 instead! - Minh Bui

Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach? - Daniel Chow

But who prevents Google from taking over the net? - Andreas

youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube. - vijay

You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition - Marcos Marado

The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML.... more... - Paul Buchheit

@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth. - Joel Webber

There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript. - Steve Temple

Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to! - Marcos Marado from fftogo

because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential - Mike Chelen

@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :) - Ihar Mahaniok

Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based. - Willowdale

@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well? - ianf ⌘

I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video - Scott Radcliff

I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like. - ianf ⌘

to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well - Chris Hofmann

somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight) - Karim

If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser. - Jeff Weber

Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though. - Scott Radcliff from email

Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do. - Saad Kamal

not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon. - Darren Stuart

Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on... more... - Kaan Bingol

People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA. - Hayes Haugen

Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support? - Paul Buchheit

I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial. - Hayes Haugen

Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-) - Karim

Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution? - Hayes Haugen

i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-) - Karim

How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements. - Derek Wei

All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;) - Hayes Haugen

Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow. - Ray Cromwell

That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch. - Scott Radcliff from email

I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it. - Nick Lothian

Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT - Ray Cromwell

I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is... more... - Fa La La La Lindsay

Azure looks really cool. Hint: so did Blackbird. - Michael R. Bernstein

lol blackbird (scary redmond flashback) - a good example of azure platform utilization can be seen via jon udell's elmcity project - http://blog.jonudell.net/elmcity... - mike "glemak" dunn

Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript. - Sebastian Wain

It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better. - Victor Ganata

...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is... more... - .LAG liked that

Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes... more... - ianf ⌘

I like this post! - Mohammad Abdurraafay from iPhone

I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows. - Victor Ganata

ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh> - .LAG liked that

alternative to flash video such as ... html5 :) (requires ff3.5) http://www.dailymotion.com/openvid... - Mike Chelen from IM

that only covers video and audio... *sigh* - Ed F from IM

Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube - Mike Chelen

I know, and it seems I'm the only one who mentions Flash's other uses... :-/ - Ed F from IM

Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block - Mike Chelen

Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash. - Ed F

Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck. - LANjackal

But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p... - Victor Ganata

write them yourself then. until then, I'll stick with desktop apps or Flash equivalents - Ed F from IM

I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it. - Victor Ganata

Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it... more... - .LAG liked that

Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough - Mike Chelen

LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme... - Mike Chelen

Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree - Charlie Anzman

still haven't updated yet. Busy with something on Firefox - LANjackal from IM

What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game... more... - Gabe

Yeah the video spec for HTML5 is currently a disaster - LANjackal from IM

Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology? - Kari Honkanen

Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL. - Paul Buchheit

Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future... more... - Kari Honkanen

I agree that the future is neither open nor closed, but a mixture of the 2. Been preaching that for a while now, but then again there are the fanatics on either side who can't see anything other than a homogenous future - LANjackal from IM

I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues... more... - Ray Cromwell

Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.' - Cliff Gerrish

MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :) - Claudio Cicali ♋

MSFT sucks Claudio :) - Orlando Pozo

@caludio: They've already done that, somewhat. Silverlight 4 Beta supports Chrome. However I'm pretty sure it's probably technically impractical to run another browser atop Chrome OS anyway - LANjackal from IM

Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me. - Karoli

If the concept of open source didn't allow for competitive business plans then quite a few companies that depend on it wouldn't exist. The "happy smiley" image most FOSS zealots promote isn't reflective of reality. There will always be competition, even among the free - LANjackal from IM

I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it). - Paul Buchheit

I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong). - Johnny Worthington

Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there. - Paul Buchheit

Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel. - Victor Ganata

@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway. - Nick Lothian

My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL. - Gabe

not rly, the defeat of Flash & SL depends on the rise of HTML5, which will b supported by multiple browsers. Unfortunately spec disagreements r holding that up. That's another advantage of closed systems : fewer cooks often makes the broth get done faster lol - LANjackal from IM

it is possible to have smaller groups for open source software, such as google's own gears api http://code.google.com/apis... - Mike Chelen

How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare. - Gabe

@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed? - Nick Lothian

HTML 5's not "missing" much in terms of its ambition. What it's missing is a consensus among its contributors. Flash and SL have gone through several iterations while HTML 5's been sitting there - LANjackal from IM

Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps. - Gabe

@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion). - Joel Webber

So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS? - Cliff Gerrish

No they won't, because it Silverlight already runs on Chrome as of Beta 4 - LANjackal from IM

Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me. - Gabe

@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff. - Nick Lothian

Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself. - Gabe

Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity. - Dan Douglass

Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser. - Dan Douglass

Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash. - Gabe

Anyone else think Joy is Spam? - Chris Myles

already reported it yesterday :) - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ from IM

Micah Wittman to Micah's feed, FriendFeed Hacks, FriendFeed Feedback

friendfeedPoll user script - released - Report statistics on a friendfeed thread used as a poll / survey - http://userscripts.org/scripts...

July 17 - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Mietchen, Kol Tregaskes, HealingBrush and 25 other people liked this

Report statistics on a friendfeed thread used as a poll/survey. To customize possible answers (between 2 and 5 answers supported), in Configuration set answer1Array and answer2Array (and arrays 3 to 5 optionally). Each array can contain a single version of the answer word/phrase or multiple such as var answer1Array = ["Yes","Affirmative", "Absolutely"]; When viewing an individual post, the link Calculate Poll appears in the upper right corner of the page - click it to run or re-run a poll report. - Micah Wittman

16 more comments

Featured image: http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Micah Wittman

The default configuration is: answer1Array = ['Yes','Yep','Yup']; and var answer2Array = ['No','Nope']; - Micah Wittman

That is BRILLIANT man! - Haggis (Sean Loyless)

Thanks, Haggis. - Micah Wittman

I was wracking my brain trying to figure what question would elicit the uniform responses of 'toothpaste', 'lemon' and 'orange'. Thanks for the link Micah! - Kevin Fox

Kevin, new theme names? *hint hint* :D - Micah Wittman from iPhone

Awesome. Glad my laziness may have spurred this. I just tested it and it worked great. Just a bit pesky having to set so many variables in the array for a poll like the one I created. - Mark Krynsky

Mark, you're absolutely spot on about the pesky nature of setting variables in the script itself. Creating a user interface for saving settings for user scripts like this is a pain (for one thing, can't use Greasemonkey data storage functions if I want straightforward compatibility with Safari/Greasekit). But the nature of this script may make it a bit easier than some because it's run... more... - Micah Wittman

Mark, regarding "spurred on" - you were the final straw :) - Micah Wittman

This is a wonderful idea, although why not make it simpler like just a simple survey system like what Google Docs uses. -- Like this one provided for the Themes Question -- http://friendfeed-media.com/8e11391... - Matt Ruiz

Matt, yeah, actually I participated in that one. A poll application naturally is better at the business conducting a poll. But, on a conversational system like ff, poll-like questions benefit from programmatic tallying only if they grow to a significant size. In many cases, a formal poll might not get much participation, but a casual question native to ff does. - Micah Wittman

would it be possible to have the results update automatically when a new comment is posted? great script, thanks! - Mike Chelen

also, is there an example topic where this script is in use? - Mike Chelen

Mike, this is a great example post to run the Calculate Poll script on: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Micah Wittman

friendfeedPoll [v0.1.1] released - Added auto-refresh of poll calculation upon comments being added (or deleted). Thanks for the suggestion, Mike :) - Micah Wittman

Micah, very nice! it is so cool to see the total change live - Mike Chelen

also found the topic from the screenshot :) http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Mike Chelen

Paul Buchheit

A practical scalable distributed B-tree - http://www.hpl.hp.com/techrep...

June 14, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Nagender Parimi, binic, Dmitry 'radiant' Volkov and 76 other people liked this

"Moreover, our algorithm is conceptually simple: we use transactions to manipulate B-tree nodes so that clients need not use complicated concurrency and locking protocols used in prior work. To execute these transactions quickly, we rely on three techniques: (1) We use optimistic concurrency control, so that B-tree nodes are not locked during transaction execution, only during commit. This well-known technique works well because B-trees have little contention on update. (2) We replicate inner nodes at clients. These replicas are lazy, and hence lightweight, and they are very helpful to re- duce client-server communication while traversing the B-tree. (3) We replicate version numbers of inner nodes across servers, so that clients can validate their transactions efficiently, without creating bottlenecks at the root node and other upper levels in the tree." - Paul Buchheit

21 more comments

Paul, I think many of us are going to trust your opinion on this white paper. All Greek to me. - Jon-Paul Bussoli

All I understand is that it is in my best interests to cheer for the way you access B-tree nodes in order to continue to enjoy friendfeed reliably. Go friendfeed algorithm go! - Jon-Paul Bussoli

What, no comparison to BigTable? - ⓞnor

@nor It's really not the same thing, unless somehow you're using a distributed B-tree on hash collision, however, if you're getting that many collisions, then the hash algorithm is probably wrong or your key width is too small. Then again, I really don't know what I'm talking about. - Eric Florenzano

Curious as to what problem Paul is looking at... My default data toolkit these days would probably include sqlite for in-memory data, sharded bdb's for btrees that are too big for memory, and hbase/hypertable for a distributed store. I wonder where this fits in... - DeWitt Clinton

Ok this is a really *nerdy* post! :*) - Susan Beebe

DeWitt, I just thought that it looked like an interesting paper. As for the several solutions you mention, I don't know that any of them have distributed transactions (maybe bdb, but that doesn't really work). - Paul Buchheit

B-Trees and Prof. Bayer http://wwwbayer.informatik.tu-... - would be interesting to know what he'd say, unfortunately he's retired a few years ago. Used to be fairly approachable in all matters B-Tree. - Mustafa K. Isik

@DeWitt - no room for a traditional SQL based database except as an in memory database? - Nick Lothian

we had designed and implemented distributed tree control, but transactions were considered "too much" for near-real-time, and they were already in protocol... the rest you know as xGSN boxes in GPRS/3G/HSDPA - dynamic routing for mobile packet networks. I'd left team in 2003... - A.T.

@paul - I'll readily admit to being out of my depth, but it depends on what the definition of "distribution transaction" is. With bdb a combination of local transactions and guaranteed consistent replication you can approximate a distributed transaction at the cost of speed. See http://www.oracle.com/technol... and http://www.oracle.com/technol.... But those won't work across bdb shards. - DeWitt Clinton

@paul - A table-based distributed store can do this via a lock on entity groups, where entity groups are defined by relationship formed by instances of similar models that belong to the same parent-based ancestry chain. This is how App Engine transactions work -- see http://code.google.com/appengi... and http://code.google.com/appengi.... Ping ryan for some background there. Not sure if hbase or hypertable support this via their api. - DeWitt Clinton

@nlothian - I dunno. Offline maybe? - DeWitt Clinton

DeWitt: have you ever successfully used BDB with millions of newly written entries and transaction support turned on? We kept getting transaction logs with millions of entries that were never consumed, so restarts would take hours as it replayed the logs. Configuring BDB to work for large databases is insanely esoteric to say the least, and it may be impossible to get it to work acceptably in some cases. - Bret Taylor

@bret -- no, definitely not with large databases. We used bdb's heavily at my last company, though. Aggressive sharding is the key if you want to support either transactions or replication, which matches intuition about how it is implemented. - DeWitt Clinton

But your comment about millions of entries makes me wonder about which data is getting written to which place. I suspect a lot of problems like this end up with the bulk of the data being written transactionless + replicated to a table-based store (or a transactionless bdb), and only a small subset of the data gets transaction support. So multiple datastores. But you guys know this better than I do, so why am I rambling? : ) - DeWitt Clinton

DeWitt, you can also look into all the trouble that Gaia had with bdb - I simply wouldn't trust any fancy bdb functionality. - Paul Buchheit

Also, AppEngine transactions are limited to a single "entity group", which I assume means a single BigTable tablet. Essentially, they solved distributed transactions by not having them -- all transactions must be local to a single tablet. From the docs: "Every entity belongs to an entity group, a set of one or more entities that can be manipulated in a single transaction. Entity group relationships tell App Engine to store several entities in the same part of the distributed network." - Paul Buchheit

@paul - yup, that's the trade-off. Entity groups ensure locality, locality makes transactions fast(er). Same old lever problem -- speed of consistency vs. scope of the transactions. - DeWitt Clinton

DeWitt, there's nothing wrong with having local transactions -- I'm just pointing out that they aren't distributed transactions. - Paul Buchheit

Point taken. I got way off-topic regarding your original post anyway. - DeWitt Clinton

The design seems reasonable. The only part that is under-specified is the way they switch from a master node to a slave. I'm curious why they don't use transactions to maintain replicas but instead rely on some unspecified master/slave replication scheme. - Private Sanjeev

imabonehead to imabonehead's feed, Code Junkies, Coders, OpenFF

The Anatomy of Hadoop I/O Pipeline (Hadoop and Distributed Computing at Yahoo!) - http://developer.yahoo.net/blogs...

August 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

A.T., AJ Batac, vijay and 7 other people liked this

"In this blog post, I attempt to decompose and analyze the Hadoop I/O pipeline in detail, and explore possible optimizations. To keep the discussion concrete, I am going to use the ubiquitous example of reading and writing line records from/to gzip-compressed text files. I will not get into details on the DataNode side of the pipeline, and instead mainly focus on the client-side (the map/reduce task processes). Finally, all descriptions are based on Hadoop 0.21 trunk at the time of this writing, which means you may see things differently if you are using older or newer versions of Hadoop." - imabonehead from Bookmarklet

obviously, this is the Yahoo! distribution of Hadoop and one of distributions available - Roberto

OpenFF: vijay

OMG! you guys! I think something big has popped up. We got interest from Norway! NoseRub wants us to work with them! See this comment...

August 12 - Comment - Like - Share

Simon Tracey, imabonehead, Jesper Kjær Hansen and 35 other people liked this

" Vijay: this is what I've got on Twitter (from Børge (@forteller) who is Open Source ambassador in Norway):"Could you please ask vijay (seems like he's the one behind "clonefeed") to rather help out NoseRub than reinvent the wheel? or at least make it compatible with NoseRub (through OMB) so that we can subscribe to each other no matter which of them we use" - so that is what I am doing :-) - Hanna Wiszniewska " - vijay

35 more comments

we need to contact Børge right away. He wants to talk. Where are the folks when you need 'em? :S - vijay

cool. - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

looks interesting. I never heard of them before but they seem interesting - Jacque

Ken Sheppardson was talking about them in this room yesterday. His post is in here somewhere. He can throw some light on this. - vijay

I looked at NoseRub briefly yesterday. And if I remember correctly, Kevin L tried setting up NoseRub, but found it wasn't user friendly enough yet for the average user. He didn't mention any details. I'll try NoseRub this evening and see what issues, if any, there are. I would imagine the main "issues" will be ease-of-installation. - Jason Huebel

we need to have someone talk to him now Jason, and begin a relationship with them. Since we are both open and social services, I feel we can learn a lot from those guys. - vijay

Ken turned me on to them yesterday as well....i started watching their video and got pulled into a meeting...i did like the little i did see. will revisit this tonight. - Carlos Ayala

excellent. the more people we have who know about their service, the better we can identify where we can collaborate with them. thanks Carlos. - vijay

@vijay, I agree that we can learn a lot from them. I'll contact @forteller on Twitter and get a dialog going. After a few people test drive NoseRub, we'll be able to make a more informed decision on how we can collaborate. - Jason Huebel

cool Jason. He's hardcore open source so Hanna tipped me he preferred Identica to twitter. If you use it, then it's better to get hold of him over there (his remark which Hanna posted actually came from his Identica). He's here -->- http://identi.ca/forteller - vijay

Ah, cool. No problem. I'm on identi.ca as well. - Jason Huebel

The broader point is that there are a number of efforts in this area, including NoseRub, DiSo, or to some extent Laconica and OMB. I realize everybody's initial reaction is "Hey, let's start a project to replace FriendFeed", but if you check out sourceforge, github, freshmeat, ohloh.net, you'll find hundreds of projects with one or two or ten people working on them that are almost identical to prior projects. - Ken Sheppardson

Jason, I will update him that you will be getting in touch with him. What's your identica ID? - vijay

Right now we've got 202 people interested in either using, evangalizing, or lending a hand with development. Perhaps the NoseRub or DiSo or other teams could "pitch" us on why we should support their effort... rather than heading off into the dark on our own. - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, this is friendfeed. People sub to anything and numbers don't count. I know people with over 1000 FF subs begging on their knees in their feeds for someone to comment in their posts. It's too early to be rash with the stats imo. - vijay

i really like the idea behind DiSo. From what I understand Chris Messina could really shed some light on this for us. http://friendfeed.com/diso http://diso-project.org/ - Carlos Ayala

Uh... ok... s/202/10/ Does that make a difference? Sorry... I just meant to point out there's a concentration of interest here, and maybe the folks who've been working on the problem for a while could use our collective help. - Ken Sheppardson

there's this too -->- " at least make it compatible with NoseRub (through OMB) so that we can subscribe to each other no matter which of them we use. " - vijay

Yeah, and the discussion RE whether OMB is the appropriate glue opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. Sigh. Now I remember why I burned out on this stuff... ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

Just a shoutout that i volunteer my database skills in an open-source FF clone! - anna sauce

you guys know more about this than I do, so you guys can work this out. My 2 cents is all these are open efforts and there is zero money in this for the foreseeable future. So the more people we have to help, the easier for us to move forward imo. Børge knows this and hence his invitation. - vijay

OMG OMG OMG!!!!!! (yeah I`m just checking out the wiki) - sofarsoShawn

Quite interesting - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

Bravo guys Bravo. It's one hell of a project!!! - Dobromir Hadzhiev

Congrats! Things may start moving along faster now. - Simon Wicks

NoseRub++. I hope OpenFF will be based on NoseRub! - Marcos Marado

I doubt it will be, Marcos, as I think the plan is to develop in Python and my understanding is NoseRub is PHP using the CakePHP framework - Ken Sheppardson

Why to limit the OpenFF idea by its programing language? - Marcos Marado

The *idea* isn't limited, but the OpenFF logo/tag has come to refer to a specific project/team/implementation. For more general convo, btw, there's http://friendfeed.com/feedtech - Ken Sheppardson

Yes, I know. I was just thinking that it makes no sense to me to have time wasted in building everything from scratch when a NoseRub personalization might be enough to have a friendfeed clone... - Marcos Marado

I wonder if Drupal + the Activity Stream modules + the Facebook Connect module would be worth a try. Sure, Drupal doesn't really scale well in a distributed manner, but it does have an integrated search feature, and it's very modular and customisable... - Tyson Key

How does drupal handle distributed federated search Tyson? I suggested a search like status broadcast but wonder if it may have been naive - Mark Essel from iPhone

Good question, I haven't seen a federated search module, although I can't see why it wouldn't be possible. - Tyson Key

That's great news Vijay, congrats! - jcunwired

I've just discovered http://drupal.org/project..., Mark. - Tyson Key

("Allows search results from multiple drupal sites to be aggregated under the 'distributed search' tab" according to the blurb). - Tyson Key

OpenFF: Evan Prodromou

It would make a lot of sense to use Laconica as a base for this software and build the Friendfeed-like functionality as plugins. I think it could be pretty awesome.

August 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Dan Brickley, LouCypher, Hassan Ibraheem and 24 other people liked this

Hate Laconica. Build from the ground up. - Matthew DeVries

40 more comments

Laconica has 85% of the needed functionality. Big additional code would be feed-scraping and clustering feeds for accounts. Building from the ground up is a big waste of time and effort. Also, as the Laconica creator and lead dev, I can commit to providing resources to make this project work. - Evan Prodromou

Oh, also: why do you hate Laconica? Good information to have! - Evan Prodromou

It's just Twitter - Matthew DeVries

Evan, how had you imagined building "plugins" for Laconia? Do you simply mean putting the "load" on the client? Indeed, a laconica and or Twitter client could add lots on top of the respective notification services to provide a FriendFeed-like experience. http://a.tinythread.com/ is a good example of this IMO. The threaded comments there look pretty friendfeed-ish imo. - Meryn Stol

Laconica has a server-side plugin architecture already. 3rd-party code can "hook" important events in the main code and enhance or replace the default processing for those events, firing either before or after the events occur. There are hookpoints in the code for UI events (showing the header, showing the sidebar, etc.) database and domain object events (saving a new status, saving a... more... - Evan Prodromou

@Matthew Devries, no, it's not! You need to look a little closer. - Evan Prodromou

Evan, I do not have any experience with Laconica. Does it already support threaded conversations? That would be a start. - Meryn Stol

@Meryn also, you may want to check out our threaded conversation pages like http://identi.ca/convers... . It's hierarchical, not flat like FF's, and it's based off the same @-reply mechanism that Twitter uses. But it could be customized to work more like Jaiku or Friendfeed (where comments are distinct from other notices.) - Evan Prodromou

Show me a threaded conversation with 10,000 characters of text. - Matthew DeVries

SMS as the core of the service? - Matthew DeVries

Laconica as a base need serious consideration, imho. - Micah Wittman

@evan, while I've got you 'on the line', I'd sure appreciate any feedback on my userscript for language translation - I'm close to finishing an adaptation for identi.ca, but at the moment you can test out the twitter port: http://translatorize.com/ Thanks! - http://identi.ca/micah - Micah Wittman

Matthew DeVries, no, SMS is not the core of the service. That would be crack-addled. - Evan Prodromou

Matthew DeVries: w/r/t 10K of text: not sure I understand what you mean. 10K for each notice? 10K total? What point are you trying to make? - Evan Prodromou

Can Laconica make a post like this? - Laconica is an open source microblogging server written in PHP that implements the OpenMicroBlogging standard for interoperation between installations. While offering functionality similar to Twitter, Laconica seeks to provide the potential for open, inter-service and distributed communications between microblogging communities. Enterprises and... more... - Matthew DeVries

Sure seems like there is overlap between laconica and openff goals. Plugins could be a great way to fill any laconica gaps towards a Friendfeed like feature set - Jason Wehmhoener from iPhone

The Twitter ecosystem is showing sure signs of producing equal capabilities as FriendFeed (except for update speed - that's limited by the speed of the Twitter API), so I think that will eventually happen to Laconica too. If not, then I see not much future for Laconia anyway. Social media will not stop at 140 char microblogging. The future for Twitter - if any - is being a hub in something much bigger, something even more advanced than FriendFeed. - Meryn Stol

At the moment, I have big doubts though if even Twitter will survive. Other ways to do push notification (e.g. pubsubhubbub) pose a big threat. I'm talking long-term of course. But that doesn't make either Laconica or Twitter seem attractive for me as a developer to put time in. I'd rather invest in technologies which seem to have a bright future ahead. - Meryn Stol

@Matthew Devries, 0.8.x versions and below limited to 140 chars/notice. 0.9.x and above will support variable-length notices, from 1 to unlimited. We'll use truncation to deal with channels (like Twitter or SMS) that are space-constrained. - Evan Prodromou

Interesting idea, Evan Prodromou. Does Laconi.ca support real time through the web interface? - Raphael, Raphael

@Raphael yes it does. We support three different real-time update servers: Cometd (using Bayeux), Orbited, and Meteor. We'll probably have a Strophe-based XMPP update at some point in the near future. BTW, that's all implemented with plugins. - Evan Prodromou

@Meryn Laconica supports a distributed protocol, OpenMicroBlogging, for a federated approach. We also have plugins in progress for RSSCloud, PubSubHubBub, XMPP PubSub, and FETHR. - Evan Prodromou

You may have something here. I'll take a look at the documentation. - Raphael, Raphael

Great info. Thanks for dropping by, Evan! - Kevin L

I think comments as separate from notices is a big difference. Does Laconica do groups or lists? - Kevin L

Evan: What I mean is that anything evolved out of microblogging probably won't matter much for the future of the web and social media. I think the future belongs to completely standardized hubs, using the pubsubhubbub protocol or a protocol yet to be invented. I simply don't think microblogging will survive as a core technology. I think it will prove too limited by its past. - Meryn Stol

yes, Laconica does groups. It also has lists. - Evan Prodromou

Meryn, the "micro" part is a gimmick. Once you lift the character limit, there should be no problem. - Raphael, Raphael

I don't see much reasons to have laconia hubs when there are "standardized" hubs, willing to route around anything inside an Atom feed. Why register for a particular when people can get push updates from across the web? All a user has to do in the future is produce an atom feed. The hubs will be invisible to the user. They only see their app, a kind of Wordpress or something. - Meryn Stol

BTW This is one of the reasons why I also probably won't be contributing to the OpenFF server clone. I don't think it has much future. I think we can already see the end of the road for centralized services. I still am interested in writing a client which can talk to all different (either centralized or federated) services out there... From a user's standpoint, broad compatibility with existing networks is a big plus. - Meryn Stol

Last I saw the OpenFF was building toward a decentralized setup, sending content not to the server, but to your friends, who connects to their friends, etc. - Matthew DeVries

Matthew, huh? I think the first goal is to build something very much technological the same as FriendFeed. Federation is the next step. But peer to peer is not even on the agenda (at least for the openff project as I know it). And as I said, I don't particularly like that roadmap. It does not really excite me. - Meryn Stol

I kindly invite everyone who want to think on more broad terms about "feed technology" to join http://friendfeed.com/feedtech :) - Meryn Stol

The very first thread I saw about the project, the consensus was to finally just push ahead with federation. If they've drifted from that goal, then yeah. boring. - Matthew DeVries

Laconi.ca is a natural choice to build a project of this type on top of, IMHO. - Earle Martin

Evan, I learned some interesting things about laconica from this thread and will be taking a closer look - Jason Wehmhoener

As this is a community open federated project I suggest to use open source Jaikuengine with pubsubhubbub running on Google Appengine. Reasons: Dealing with scalability(twitter has Big DDOS issues) Google infrastructure is the best, Real time push and pull based on pubsubhubbub (community hub is available). Jaiku threaded conversation is cool.It has Channels too. Regarding Macro (not... more... - Srini Vemula

You don't need to adapt laconica to that when NoseRub is so much close to what Friendfeed is. Actually, there are only a couple of features left in NoseRub to be a friendfeed clone (feature-wise, not presentation-wise). A running service using NoseRub is Identoo.com (Identoo is to NoseRub what identica is to laconica) - Marcos Marado

Marcos, does Noserub have some kind of plugin and/or theme architecture so that changes to Noserub can be made without coordinating those changes with the core Noserub development team? I ask because when I look at indentoo.com it doesn't look/work much like Friendfeed, so it's possible the Noserub team has different goals. However, if Noserub supports plugins and/or themes it's possible that different goals can be supported without any issue. - Jason Wehmhoener

If somebody wants to build plug-ins for Laconi.ca that make it more FriendFeed-like, or join the NoseRub project and add more FriendFeed-like functionality to that system, or just work on other projects that connect FriendFeed proper with Laconi.ca with NoseRub instances, I say more power to them. My impression to date has been that all that's distinct from the OpenFF effort, the intent of which is to build an OSS "clone" of FriendFeed as a new and separate project and code base. - Ken Sheppardson

BTW, I've spun this off into the Feed Tech group as http://friendfeed.com/feedtec... - Ken Sheppardson

Erhan

Stone vs iPhone

September 26, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Navid Ht, Alfredo, StarKnight and 244 other people liked this

Can be used as paperweight ✓ ✓ - Nathaniel Payne

41 more comments

Bunun nokia 3310lusuda var :) - loran the 'amorfati'

I choose stone : ) Better handling : ) - Selim Yoruk

Better standby time, too. - Jordan Hofker

Personally I'm waiting for the iPebble... - Johnny Worthington

Smash a rock into pieces and you get more. Smash an iphone, well, there aren't Nanos coming out. - Jordan Hofker

@Ahmet Buleeeeeent yorum yaz - Muge Cerman

John: I remembered the flintstones' infant daughter Pebbles Flintstone after your comment. She was using a phone like this Stone, wasn't she? : ) - Erhan

Still: I have iPod Touch. Haha-haa! - Kristian Salonen

Which proves, people want less features, not more! LOL - Victor Ganata

Yeah, I'd rather have a stone than an iPhone. - Alex Scoble

Stones are also more theft deterrent. - Shawn Farner

Stone is cheaper - Morton Fox

bütün fuar gg oldu :) - Ömer Enis

Hey, there is a huge period of time that we now call the Stone Age. I doubt we will ever have an era named the iPhone Age. - Victor Ganata

Victor: Maybe Apple Age? - Erhan

Still: the Apple Age 1976-2008. The Stone Age 3 million BC-3000 BC. Steve Jobs ain't gonna be around *that* long (barring major innovations in life prolongation that I'm sure he'd be able to afford.) - Victor Ganata

When they came out they were hot ✓ ✓ - Benedikt Koehler

For most situations, I prefer the iPhone. I get really bad reception with my rock.. and it's hard to check my stocks and get directions to the pizza joint with it. But it works great as a makeshift mallet for pounding tent stakes when camping! My iPhone's a little to fragile for that. At least my iPhone can double as a flashlight in a pinch! - Jackson D. Carson

OK. I will downgrade to Stone. - Leon Ho

This is classic!! and I'm an iPhone fan!! - Bronwyn

:)) haha - Farzad

Worse is better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... ".. limited but exceptionally simple to use may be "better" than that is more comprehensive but harder to use ..." stone is better ;) - Turkey banned Bloggum :(

I'm sorry for this post, I wanna delete it now. :-) I had an iPhone gift and I'm very happy with my new Apple. She is really better than stone. http://friendfeed.com/e... :-) - Erhan

...because it has a touchscreen, right? O:-) - Marcos Marado

not touch..multi touch :) - Ömer Zahit Kara

Can knock you out when hit with it: ✓ X - Martha

Too funny! I have to leave a comment when I my laugh turns heads - Rick Bucich

I want to see stone 3.0 when it comes out. - Phil Boiarski

Stil choose the stone. Until someone buy me an iPhone. - İbrahim Uzun [ j ]

Tesekkür! wunderful :-) - stefan m. seydel/sms ;-)

You can build a wall with a stone. - Martha

straight lulz. Wake the fuck up apple. OOOOOH COPY&PASTE COMING SOON!!! - LarchOye

How big (Kb) is a MMS message on average? - Johnny Worthington

I actually don't miss copy and paste. - Victor Ganata

Good question Johnny. Without an attachment, I think they're <5kb. After that, it depends on your attachment I guess! - Will Higgins™

An average MMS (according to Nokia) is 50KB. I pay 50c per MMS. Therefore I am paying 1c/KB or $10.24/MB or $10,485.76 per GB - Johnny Worthington

for mhmazidi - amir72

This image should be updated!! Please tick MMS for iPhone 3G : ) - Erhan Erdoğan

Also one-way video call - Ozkan Altuner

Rock solid build quality ✓ X - Sriks7

stone is not fragile, but iphone is. so better to use a stone. - elodeon

Güzel kıyaslama:) - Murat DEMİR

vijay

CloneFeed Naming voting going on. Please weigh in here -->- http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll... RESHARE! get this post to your feeds so more folks can vote! : )

August 12 - Comment - Like - Share

Mahdi Ebrahimi, anjelina, Sasha Kovaliov(.com) and 57 other people liked this

Also please reshare this to your own feeds to get more people to participate. Thanks! - vijay

68 more comments

voting is on hold as we are remaking the polls a little. Hang on... - vijay

NEW POLL IS UP HERE! choose your fav! -->- http://bit.ly/14RuIt - vijay

crossthestreams, FTW! :D - Yolanda

yay! Yo! :D - vijay

palstream.com and clonefeed.org are going neck to neck right now. - vijay

We are getting a lot of clicks (60) but no new votes! (only 27!) spread the word folks! RESHARE THIS TO YOUR FEED! =P - vijay

palstream.com edges into the lead. - vijay

I like palstream too, but might suggest "streamshare", which I think has a nice ring to it. - jcunwired

I like streamshare too, but domain is unavailable jcunwired. Not even .org. - vijay

70 click throughs, 38 votes, palstream leads with 7, myopenfeed and clonefeed tied at 5. Watch ALL these stats blow through the roof when Kol gets online after work and posts it in his feed :D - vijay

Kol's working his magic :D - vijay

LOL. - Kol Tregaskes

Guys, have a think what the idea is for the service. It's going to be open source and the content is going to be hosted by yourselves. For me MyOpenFeed.com works well for this. - Kol Tregaskes

Sorry can I plug my vote? ;-) - Kol Tregaskes

There are a LOT of options. One thing to consider might be taking the top 5 once this poll is done, and rerunning a poll between those 5. - Rochelle

ofcourse Rochelle, I thought of that and that was my first try. Didn't end up well. See this thread -->- http://friendfeed.com/clonefe... - vijay

Let's go with this. It's hard to get enough people to vote in 2 polls. - vijay

I think its no less than awesome of this idea! A lot of us are upset that FF may not be what it was, this clone will be quite soothing to the soul. I need to know how open I can be about this poll though before I present that in mass quantity... I have exposure to fb, ms, tw, ff, msnm, gm, a lot more.... just let me know... Thanks for doing this vijay :) - Tim Tunnicliff

Tim join us here -->- http://friendfeed.com/clonefe... - vijay

From the FF site: I think its no less than awesome of this idea! A lot of us are upset that FF may not be what it was, this clone will be quite soothing to the soul. I need to know how open I can be about this poll though before I present that in mass quantity... I have exposure to fb, ms, tw, ff, msnm, gm, a lot more.... just let me know... Thanks for doing this vijay :) - Tim J @ WWW.MHWD.ORG - Tim Tunnicliff from email

[btw it's so easy to fake (for me... i mean for all of us who watch Hulu, Crunchyroll from outside US ;) ) ] - minus-one

* locks up minus-one in a sound-proof room for the length of this poll. Turns on K-ON in the room TV * - vijay

:D - minus-one

joined :-) Tim J @ WWW.MHWD.ORG - Tim Tunnicliff from email

I think you should use either openfeed.com or streamfeed.com or streemfeed.com. Those aren't on the list. - Mathew™ one of a kind

Mathew, domains are registered. See this thread for the options and the discussion around them -->- http://friendfeed.com/clonefe... - vijay

Ah, ok. Stupid people for taking those domains. - Mathew™ one of a kind

Does it really have to have "Feed" in the name???? - Roberto Bonini

oh we lost a ton of good options due to the squatters. like jcunwired's option streamshare. Well, we gotta work with what we have. - vijay

How about openfeeds.com. I don't think that one is taken. - Mathew™ one of a kind

Roberto, there are options that don't have feed in the name. Choose one of them? - vijay

aye Mathew that is available. Let this vote get over and we'll work that out. Also, join the clonefeed room while you are at it. - vijay

i voted - Simon Wicks

thanks Simon! Sorry about the eariler confusion : ) - vijay

I have two more suggestions. theopenstream.com and myopenstream.com. Those are both available I checked. - Mathew™ one of a kind

myopenstream is already on the poll Mathew - vijay

Oh I didn't see it. Guess I know which one is getting my vote. - Mathew™ one of a kind

Although I would also like to support openff. Kinda have a logo idea in my mind for it. - Mathew™ one of a kind

your choice Mathew. Keep the service in mind though. You can design a good logo for any name. - vijay

Vijay: this is what I've got on Twitter (from Børge (@forteller) who is Open Source ambassador in Norway):"Could you please ask vijay (seems like he's the one behind "clonefeed") to rather help out NoseRub than reinvent the wheel? or at least make it compatible with NoseRub (through OMB) so that we can subscribe to each other no matter which of them we use" - so that is what I am doing :-) - Hanna Wiszniewska

wow Hanna thank you for the update! there's a lot of people behind this and I will relay this message to them. Thanks again! : ))) - vijay

yay :) - Koray AL

You are welcome, it was my pleasure! - I think you could contact Børge - he will be happy to help out. He is @forteller on identica and Twitter (but prefers identica... ;-) - Hanna Wiszniewska

will do Hanna! btw thanks for the identica tip. He doesn't play around does he? ; P - vijay

Just wanna say thank you to everyone that is behind this, more than that--Thank you for not letting FF die as we have grown to know and love! :) Tim J @ WWW.MHWD.ORG - Tim Tunnicliff from email

this is just the start Tim; it's a long journey so buckle up : ) - vijay

Buckled and fastened! I am intrigued and fascinated and my eyes will be super glued to this thread or any thread for that matter pertaining to this subject :D Tim J @ WWW.MHWD.ORG - Tim Tunnicliff from email

Thanks vijay, I'm buckled up!!! - Myrna

Oops forgot to invite you to Holden's 18th birthday party. http://ff.im/6w96Z - Myrna

Rochelle, yep a rerun of the top 5 would be cool, with discussion. - Kol Tregaskes

no way Kol. let's finish this off instead of rehashing the whole thing over and over. two full days on just the name when people have not even figured out who's leading the team and the effort. Let's get this distraction over with and move on. we have the decisions of 112 people from 15 countries. That is more than sufficient for just the name. I bet even friendfeed didn't have this luxury when they came up with the name. - vijay

I agree vijay! - Myrna

Vijay, I didn't say anything about rehashing, I agreed with Rochelle about rerunning a vote when we have 5 winners. - Kol Tregaskes

BTW, NoseRub looks excellent!: http://vimeo.com/3003707?hd=1 - Kol Tregaskes

: ))) - vijay

I hope people are googling their name ideas before suggesting them. Optimally, you don't want any more than about 5 results for the name, and definitely don't want any results relating to any similar concepts. - April Russo (app103)

I have a name suggestion that I think is catchy and captures the spirit of its essence. It's both a noun and a command: OpenFirehose - April Russo (app103)

+1 openfirehose, April. after reading vijay's post calling for suggestions and then seeing the poll, I didn't really like any of the options. nor could I think of anything better. but openfirehose I can get behind. - chrisofspades

how about osfeed.org ? - Petr Buben

voted ^_^ - Nia

yay! thanks Nia!! Finland Vote guys! :D - vijay

I'm messing things up b/c the poll is set, but what about: feedhq.com ? - Micah Wittman

domain taken Micah. I so wanna say squatters suck but first come first serve; it's how things roll. Practicing emotional restraint. :S - vijay

Grrr. You're absolutely right, v. I only suggested it after I got no response with a direct http request (but I didn't do a whois lookup). My bad :( - Micah Wittman

try http://domai.nr - http://domains.nexo.com - Petr Buben

the vote counts have changed quite a bit, and erstwhile favorites are dropping - Aaman (Clone of FF)

I'm watching that too Aaman. A tad curious about the unexpected shift. - vijay

Possible hijacking ? LOL - Jacque

meh. even if it's hijacking, once the results are suspect, then there are many ways to deal with it. Let the poll run its course before coming to conclusions. - vijay

Dave Winer

"we, the users, need to own a technology company -- and have it work to serve our interests..." http://www.scripting.com/stories...

August 11 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Uncle CW™, sofarsoShawn, A Mitchell and 101 other people liked this

yes!:) - K.D.

84 more comments

A crowdsourced company. Don't we call that the government? ;) - Sean Powell

Dave... we have been considering this idea for a number of years, but I think that pulling it together requires more than a geek-army or an open-source collaborative ethos. 'Open' is a mind-set, not a movement... and great egalitarian strategies are possibly best not to be collectively authored, or you can find yourself in the middle of a mega-committee. Its a conundrum... But we are happy to share insights. - Simon Edhouse

Dave/Simon: someone will do it. Why not get started now? - Jason Cronkhite

Totally agree... the core idea that Dave is putting forward has been my 24/7 passion since 2006... and maybe Twitter & Friendfeed (RIP) are going to prove to be catalytic forces for this idea. Certainly Dave is a lot more accessible nowdays... ;) - Simon Edhouse

Simon, maybe with Dave's help we can form a community trust and put the thing together. :-) - Jason Cronkhite

Simon it would not be like that. I'll write a follow-up post. - Dave Winer

I would like to understand the financial vehicles to do this. Simon, I also agree that there has to be a structure that allows for users interests to be aligned with business growth for their benefit and the founders. Too often what happens when investors step in for pure financial return is the goal becomes focused on how to turn the company, "the exit", and not on building a sustainable company to enrich lives of the user base. - Jason Cronkhite

well... to quote Robert Burns, "The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray"... Firstly I totally agree with Dave's other post (i.e. "Rex, you're making it too complicated..") where he outlines the structure of the Public Company... no problem there. I have reasoned out the same model some time ago. - I see it like a series of check-boxes that have to be ticked... and probably... more... - Simon Edhouse

Understand & agree for the most part. RE: BIG IDEA, don't know if it really has to be earth moving all the time but rather something that enough users can stand to benefit from both of using the product and financially. Simon, how about publishing your checklist and trying to get a following around the movement? - Jason Cronkhite

The BIG IDEA is crucial... once you see it, you can't stop thinking about it, and that's what is needed to get massive buy-in. - "get a following around a movement" No... I can't drum that up. I am too small a fish, and not living in a VC hotspot. Dave's the man, if he can control his notorious crankiness (we love you Dave)... However, yes, I can add-value, but who am I? Dave has started to pull together this particular cosmic dust cloud. Let's see if he can truly lead it. - Simon Edhouse

The crowdcorp concept is the way to go, now how do we make it happen? It is tough to manage efficiently the requirements of a community - Alberto Saavedra from Nambu

RE: BIG IDEA, maybe so - maybe not...remains to be seen. RE: you're not the one, it takes powers of 2, lots of passion, determination and as Seth Godin would say a Tribe. Sure, Dave may be one to press the issue forward but this notion requires an ARMY. Dave, maybe you can enlist Scoble and the Building43 community to push this effort. - Jason Cronkhite

[edit] ...There are those on the web that are captivated by their own notoriety, as if being involved in social-networks is a popularity contest. - It isn't. If this project idea falls into the hands of the 'lime-light-seekers', who seem to have short attention cycles, it will rapidly go off-course. (that's my own personal view) - Simon Edhouse

Ah, Simon. I understand you but, this is where the Power of 2 comes in so handy (you need both - the Edhouse's & Scoble's). Keeping people on course and captivated require different talents. Maybe Scoble & Winer are perfect balances. Maybe it's others but more importantly, you need all shapes, colors and credes to do something like this and the power of collective intelligence and influence. - Jason Cronkhite

LOL... maybe we need a Jason Cronkhite too - Simon Edhouse

Its a jigsaw puzzle... but, like those super tricky huge jigsaw puzzle's, to complete it, someone needs to have the picture that encapsulates the final vision. - Simon Edhouse

Agreed Simon! I'm willing to help. - Jason Cronkhite

OK... next we need a money person... who gets it. Someone who can resource this... Its not going to go anywhere much till that person steps up. - Simon Edhouse

They are around. I forwarded a pointer to my piece today with a guy I'm working with on another project. - Dave Winer

Cool Dave. Let's keep the conversation going. I would love to see this happen. - Jason Cronkhite

I have detailed Info-memorandum type docs, and have sent overviews to John Nesheim (http://www.nesheimgroup.com/) who has given the core-ideas his thumbs-up, and offered to introduce me to VCs etc... John is a great guy, very smart and accessible. We had a long Skype chat a while ago... he gets it. - Simon Edhouse

Fantastic Simon! Are VC's really what's needed 1st? - Jason Cronkhite

VCs are probably exactly not what's needed as they (generally) are always thinking of their exit, and being risk-averse by nature they tend to look for 'me-too' plays... (projects that have successful precedents in the marketplace) ... No, an Angel Investor is what's needed. But there still has to be a killer Business Model as money people are always in the business of making more... more... - Simon Edhouse

Not to get ahead of ourselves but, even before an Angel don't we just need a passionate following of people (users of products/services they may want to own)? - Jason Cronkhite

It seems to me what is needed is a platform to evangelize the concept, get people behind the cause. Of course, a financial plan as to how users might contribute to show tangible interest would help in gaining validation and traction for larger investor types. - Jason Cronkhite

well... I instinctively take a different view on that. Not to say you are wrong, I am just really aware of the 'politics' of collaboration, the realities of project 'execution', and the realities and importance of I.P. protection for investors, even if it may become a public company (which by the way is a VERY expensive process to go through and carries with it a raft of responsibilites... more... - Simon Edhouse

point well taken simon, agreed. so, let's see if dave wants to help assemble the core group, open discussion, have a meeting of the minds in-person and push things forward. - Jason Cronkhite

Just opened a private group, "User Ventures" and sent you an invite, Simon/Dave. - Jason Cronkhite

"Jason assembled a great group of heroes, known as the Argonauts after their ship, the Argo. The group of heroes included the Boreads (sons of Boreas, the North Wind) who could fly, Heracles, Philoctetes, Peleus, Telamon, Orpheus, Castor and Pollux, Atalanta, and Euphemus." http://bit.ly/9LTx9 - Simon Edhouse

Very Cool! :-) - Jason Cronkhite

Then we all can start IPO's afterwards :) and sell our life-streams to google. - Chirag Chamoli

Simon, Argo User Ventures is assembled as a group awaiting the rest of the Argonauts :-) - Jason Cronkhite

LOL at the irony of opening a private group for this. - Nick Lothian

Nick, do you plan to contribute? - Jason Cronkhite

Nick, I have no qualms of opening up the group after those who plan to contribute help to establish a framework for the group. Foundations must be part of anything new even user centric organizations. So, if being an active contributor to help users suits you the group needs you and any other user advocate for that matter. - Jason Cronkhite

This company crowdsourced their funding: http://uk.techcrunch.com/2009... - Ray Cromwell

Another axis to think about is whether a particular idea even needs to be owned by a single entity, public, or otherwise. Chances are, if you're inventing another communication protocol/network to piggy back on the internet/web and ship data around, it isn't always necessary to have a single point of failure. Rather, you're taking a fault-tolerant network protocol (TCP/IP) and layering... more... - Ray Cromwell

Ray, just reached out to Charles Armstrong of Trampoline. - Jason Cronkhite

Interesting points Ray, and yes, the technology idea you outline is in accord with some of the ideas we have been building on... but inventing another open protocol does not necessarily a profitable people's Company make. - and Nick, as regards the irony of a private discussion... Sometimes you have to be smart... and being 'smart' is also about being prudent and careful., - Simon Edhouse

I agree, but some things are commodities/public goods and not really something that should be walled off just to try and extract profits. (Which I'm not against, I just think there are plenty of other things to make profits on than setting up more toll bridges) Would RSS have taken off if a single company owned it and all feeds had to be hosted through their domain? Maybe, but I think we'd all be worse off than the current situation. - Ray Cromwell

Yes... I agree, and this is a very interesting area. - Probably the only way I can get us out of this log-jam is to go deeper and state that I am interested in two key symbiotic projects. One being an open platform, and the other being a separate (and at arms length) vehicle to redefine the way commercial contacts between buyer and seller, or advertiser/vendor and viewer/client are conducted. - Simon Edhouse

Simon: you are a jerk if you think I do this to "seek the limelight." I shared OTHER PEOPLE'S posts here more than 21,000 times. That is called sharing. I travel the world and point my camera at OTHER PEOPLE. Building communities is hard work and the fact that you have started this project by being an asshole does not bode well for its future. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

I went and looked and Simon never even participated here. Two likes. What a jerk. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Now you're talking Dave. Let's get a publicly owned social media provider. But how? - Mark Essel

Without question I'd like to see something like what Jason and Simon are discussing. I can't help but write about it on a regular basis. Robert I can imagine some who don't follow you regularly may not be familiar with your sharing, constant video/blogging and social media dedication. They could perceive your ubiquity (at least within certain circles) as being a glory hound. I see otherwise. You get it man and we all benefit from your work. - Mark Essel

Mark: I agree, but I won't help a guy who questions my integrity and is a jerk. Maybe if he apologizes. Plus he's already proven he doesn't participate so WTF does he know about building a community? Geesh. - Robert Scoble

If I may... this is a fantastic political opportunity for all of us (bystanders like myself, geeks and users). I can hardly follow half the things you write (although I google most of it), but I watch the process as an experiment on "Open" Democracy through Open Source. My best wishes on its success no matter who partakes. If there is anything a civilian can contribute, please don't hesitate to ... well poke. :-)) - constantinos alexacos

Robert: I'm looking more towards Brian Hendrickson & Dave if this concept is to move forward. I bumped into Brian quite randomly while chatting about open social media, and have been banging my head on some web programming that Brian is sharp enough to explain in a feasible way in short order. If an open crowd funded business is going to develop it'll be on the backs of developers. I hope I get to help out with the movement. - Mark Essel

No, the IPO comes first, before anything else. - Dave Winer

So public buy in before anything to buy into? Seems like tricky timing, but I see the point of that order. Get public ownership and direction driving the business forward from square 1. The IPO legal requirements are pretty involved, can they be met without a business structure? - Mark Essel

Read up on public shell companies. http://www.google.com/search... - Dave Winer

Thanks will do. Jeez this sounds fantastic: http://www.businessfinance.com/public-... The wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Mark Essel

Just to add my two cents: I am a relative small fry here in this big community and have been fortunate enough to have participated in interesting discussions with both Scoble and Dave. Both have found the time (at least to some degree) to engage with me and I have since wondered how they do it (or at least how much time it takes). - Sean Powell

(Part 2) It seems based on these comments that something like this will need EVERYONE to actually be successful. With the advent of these technologies - friendfeed and (dare I say it) twitter - we now how the ability to truly get everyone involved and weigh in on decisions. That is the key here. Then we can help settle questions like: "Who decides where we go? What we do? Who's involved?" That last question should not even be considered. imho - Sean Powell

Gee, calling people "jerks" and "assholes" is just too easy in this kind of forum isn't it? But you know Robert, I did not say that you had no integrity. What I was saying was that, if something like this were to develop in an integral fashion, as in [def:] "...necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental", then its not about obtaining mass publicity first off... which... more... - Simon Edhouse

Simon, you wrote, and I quote "Pleeeeeese.... not Scoble. - Its gonna take buckets of wisdom, and patience and dare I say it, integrity." - Robert Scoble

Dave, the idea of: "...the IPO comes first" baffles me. - IPOs are very expensive, and would only seem to raise the level of risk. - What is the reason that you take that position? - I think great companies are built on great ideas, and without the solid foundation of a 'great idea', I (and other's) would sense that its an ideologically driven foray... Foundations are important. - Simon Edhouse

That, to, me, says you were saying that I didn't have any integrity. - Robert Scoble

Simon: but your last statement is better. I still think your first statement was pretty damn rude, though, and when someone calls you on your rudeness, your first answer should be "I'm sorry." - Robert Scoble

That's what my community website network is all about. See http://Frederick.com for an example. The site is owned by the community. - Craig Shipp

IPO? The IPO market doors have been shut for sometime. Thanks for the chuckle. - cheapsuits

yep... I'm sorry if that offended you, really. Loose words... I don't know you, and you don't know me. Over a coffee, we would probably have a chuckle and find quite a bit of common ground. Please accept my apology. It was an off the cuff remark, poorly executed. - Simon Edhouse

Robert... gee I should have looked at your pic before insulting you! - Lucky I'm on the other side of the planet. ;) (I'm an Aussie, from English stock... fairly reserved, and nowhere near the buzzy west coast of the US. - so on quite a different frequency) - Simon Edhouse

Apology accepted, now we can move on. Thanks! - Robert Scoble

Ok... The trigger for this discussion was Dave's clarion call: ""we, the users, need to own a technology company -- and have it work to serve our interests..." ~ Its a meme that obviously resonates with many. There's been a shift to user-control, and libertarianism rolling forward for years on the web... and the implied friction-point (which is very real) is the tension between the Web... more... - Simon Edhouse

agreed. - Thomas Hawk

Simon / Robert: Glad you guys made up :-) ... Simon, I am interested in your points of view and think there is a lot of merit to the visioning process with great leadership. I think Robert is one of the best evangelists for technology there is and letting the Scobleizer do what he does best has a time and place and I think Robert knows this and I'm sure he can move forward once there is... more... - Jason Cronkhite

Forgive me if I don't understand, but isn't the purpose of a company to make profits? Why not create a foundation akin to Mozilla or Apache instead? The closest service-oriented foundations I can think of are Wikipedia and Archive.org. It becomes interesting to me if we're talking about a services-oriented organization that provides end-user services built on top of existing and future... more... - Ankush Narula from iPhone

Ankush, I think the differentiation is that users contribution to these companies are not being rewarded. Why can the users as well as founders not be rewarded when they are essentially building the value of the company together. Companies cannot become valuable without customers so, they need each other and if users/customer bring up the valuation of the company why not have the... more... - Jason Cronkhite

But what's the end goal? Rewards or integrity? You have to find a balance in any for-profit venture. However, non-profits are driven largely by vision and integrity (ideally speaking). So let me ask some more questions. If you're laying down your money as a user+investor, won't your interests change from time to time? If you actually take a company like this public who controls the... more... - Ankush Narula

Brian... Wikipedia is a pretty good example of a company that operates for its users and is almost totally dependent on its users. However, it has no real business model, but retains a hugely valid place in most of our lives. - There is however an answer to the current dilemma/stalemate that folks here have been yearning for, and it is perfect and simple. In a nut-shell I would call it:... more... - Simon Edhouse

...and now its 4.00am down under, and I have to hit the sack... G'night fellow travellers. - Simon Edhouse

Simon... if we're talking alternatives to client-server the only one that I can think of is true distributed peer-to-peer. So perhaps a collective of such companies working together under an umbrella would be very effective since we would see many various incarnations of user+investor style companies. Interesting... - Ankush Narula

My only concern there, and its a well researched concern, is about secuity of the core protocol. there's a huge amount that can be 'open' on top, but the base transport protocol, sitting on TCP/IP needs to be super-tight, and solid. best kept as a trade secret, inside an ultimately publicy owned Company, that has rules to prevent corporations ever owning more than 10% of the stock. If... more... - Simon Edhouse

Update, I contacted Charles Armstrong, CEO of Trampoline last night and he's interested to join and learn more about this. He may be popping in soon. - Jason Cronkhite

Simon... Check out this presentation on wuala's architecture if/when you have time: http://www.wuala.com/en... - Ankush Narula

Dave ---- If I may comment about your original post sorry!), I found the post pretty inspiring. I advise on social media for an agency (no flames, please) and one of the things I talk about is "sensible" and "realistic" ROI. What I mean is very clear: we're not going to use bullshit metrics like "awareness" or "impressions" to measure whether or not our work had an effect on the brand.... more... - Michael E. Rubin

Ankush... had a quick look, but immediately I see a big discord with what I've been thinking/planning. i.e. "You can upload any file of any size"... that is a continuation of the situation that has got P2P systems into so much trouble, and stigmatized the technolgy. Its great in one sense, but it invites Piracy, copyright theft etc etc. P2P is THE logical system for the internet, (its... more... - Simon Edhouse

Public shell looks like a good alternative, is it too early to bring VRM ideas to the promised land scenario? - Alberto Saavedra

gee, don't get me started on VRM... nice philosophy, but very naive. (uh oh, 4.24am... damn) Bye... - Simon Edhouse

The users owning it - it's the Open Source model! - Marcos Marado from fftogo

Update after hearing back from a finance friend and reading some more on public shells, they have an history of association of use by folks who abuse the system and they are hidden liabilities (I'm still in the dark on those liabilities). - Mark Essel

We touched on 'GOOG' & 'Business Models' yesterday... my observation about the prevailing status quo paradigm for web-advertising is summarised here: http://friendfeed.com/simoned... - Simon Edhouse

hmmm... ok, if the concept of "Web Advertising" elicits such a nonplussed reaction, reflect on this: Contacts between vendor and buyer, and the drawing of these two parties together via promotion or request, is the basic process that 'Advertising' tries to achieve. However, as Danah Boyd highlighted in her December 2007 blog piece, (Who clicks on ads? And what might this mean?),... more... - Simon Edhouse

exactly - sofarsoShawn

Neil Saunders

So, there are other lifestream applications which aggregate feeds and allow comments. Profilactic, Storytlr, to name two. Are there others? Are they any good? What would it take for you to migrate to them? Or are we all off to Facebook?

August 10 - Comment - Like - Share

chrisofspades, M F, Morton Fox and 29 other people liked this

Which ones are OpenSource? If the FriendFeed software was OpenSource, then that would be a certain guarantee for future freedom, as people would set up alternatives in no time, forcing any provider to play friendly with the users... (not implying FF is not doing that!) - Egon Willighagen

35 more comments

are we being a bit quick off the mark? do we know for sure that FF is going away? And maybe it will but take awhile and something else will come along in the mean time. Unless I have missed news that says otherwise I am not rushing into anything. - suelibrarian

It's conceivable, but unlikely, that FF will be maintained. Even just leaving the servers running takes money, staff and time. And very similar services have come (and in some cases, gone) already. I'm not rushing out of here either, but the time will come to look at other options. - Neil Saunders

I think it's safer to assume right now that FF is not going to continue in it's current form. I agree with Neil, other options need to be explored. I don't want to have to sign into Facebook (an increasingly rare event) to keep in touch with everyone here. - Daniel Swan

God no. I had nicely partitioned Facebook into being mostly for family and RL friends. Adding the "friends" I have here would just confuse the conversations such as they are. The main issues I have with FB is that the "groups" are so closed. As soon as the news from the groups are enabled into the news streams they will become more active. I mostly inhabit FB to find out what my 17yr old is up to. Increasingly she isnt on there either. - suelibrarian

It seems unlikely that FF would be maintained - particularly just for us. I'm with Sue, its less the privacy issues that bother me as the mixing of conversations that benefit from being (gently) partitioned. I don't know whether FF might consider open sourcing an earlier version of their code but I don't think anything else really has the functionality. What we do have is the community and critical mass to make it work if we can find the right place... - Cameron Neylon

Noserub is the main Open Source lifestreaming app that I know of. It is not as feature rich (e.g. no groups at the moment) nor as fast as FF, but you can follow someone's FF from a noserub installation as well as following people from other noserub installations. See http://noserub.com and http://identoo.com for an example of a public installation. - Matt Leifer

Noserub looks potentially interesting as an open source platform. Would be interested to know what people with web management expertise think of it as a tool? - Cameron Neylon

Facebook is a big NO for me. Thanks for telling alternatives, I'll surely try them all... - Marcos Marado from fftogo

The gov. agency I work for has been developing a FF-like application for a while now. See my profile at http://me.edu.au/p/nlothian. We do aim to open source it, but that's probably a way off at the moment. But if anyone is looking at trying to develop this from scratch, DM me, because I'd love to try and make something happen. - Nick Lothian

One problem with noserub is that it is ridiculously slow at the moment, especially if you are used to FriendFeed levels of performance. However, it is the closest to FF of any of the open source social media projects that I know of. Also, the federated approach is definitely something I would like to see in a future FF replacement. - Matt Leifer

Streamy. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Streamy certainly has a better demo video ;) - JSNFLMNG

Hmm. Streamy looks nice but I just tested it for 10 mins, around 9 of which were spent staring at an unresponsive browser, waiting for my CPU fan to stop howling. - Neil Saunders

I was playing with http://noserub.com / http://identoo.com some month ago - I think this will be the place to be. Elgg.org might be also an alternative that I will test soon. - Konrad Förstner

I wonder if elgg is close enough that the community could make it what we want? http://elgg.org/about.php - Richard Akerman

I have installed both Elgg and noserub. Elgg is not really very close to FF because it is trying to be an all-purpose social networking engine. It is more flexible than noserub but would take quite a lot of coding to turn it into a FF clone. - Matt Leifer

Maybe AmpliFeeder? http://amplifeeder.com/index... Haven't tried it, and I think it is missing the comments part. - Endre Sebestyen

@Matt - maybe some plugins could fill the gap http://elgg.org/plugins.php - Konrad Förstner

Agree that noserub seemed unresponsive, didn't try streamy. But presumably enterprise levels of responsiveness takes enterprise level investment? Please prove me wrong, I'd be delighted. - Cameron Neylon

Are you talking about http://identoo.com? Works okay for me. The general advantage of the noserub protocol is the fact that it is decentralized so it's scalable http://noserub.com/quick-f... - Konrad Förstner

Does anyone know how many regular users FF have? - Ola

I don't think facebook will work for the kind of info sharing we have here. It would be too much noise for existing facebook friends, which tend to be more personal friends and less professional acquaintances, and the personal stuff would be too much noise for our science-focused group here. As most of you know, I am a big fan of the federated approach, but has it improved enough in usability to make it feasible if FF shut down tomorrow? - Mr. Gunn

I'd be willing to put cash into a pool to pay someone with serious web scaling credibility in this community (Matt Wood? Neil Saunders? there are people out there, I'm just not really sure who is best qualified) to assess the scalability and suitability of Noserub/Elgg or any other appropriate framework to actually work for the general research community and to cost development pathways. I'd really like a professional opinion on the options. - Cameron Neylon

I'd say Matt is your man for web scaling credibility/development from our community. Today, I find myself hopeful that FF might just be maintained "as is" and we can stop worrying, since Paul writes "I don't want to see it disappear". - Neil Saunders

I'm hoping that too, Neil, but it just seems like too much of a "buy and bury" move to me. - Mr. Gunn

I will be interested to see what happens. I've enjoyed FF, but perhaps I'm showing my age by finding the excitement over it (and the anxiety over its removal) to be a little overblown. As a Usenet veteran, I find the lack of threaded comments rather primitive; the feed aggregation is interesting and the Ajax is great, but I'd be surprised if they aren't replicated elsewhere. IMO, worries that the community will dissipate are excessive: communities rise and fall all the time. - Ian Holmes

Despite my many posts to the contrary, I'm not too concerned either :-) I like FF, I think it's a great demo of how the right technology can enable conversation within/between communities. But it's only a website. There are multiple ways to find people and information - FF is just a particularly effective one. - Neil Saunders

For me identoo is winning: it lacks "hide" to be a usable replacement, and then lot's of features that will come with time. Being opensource, we can easilly affect its roadmap even if not with code ;-) - Marcos Marado from fftogo

I believe that the FF team honestly wants to keep FF around, but it no longer matters what they want -- and what FaceBook doesn't want is another site that makes them look bad, even if they own it. FF is doomed, mark my words, doomed. Dooooomed. I'm with Cameron, I'd happily contribute to a fund to pay for a professional opinion on how to build and pay for a science-centric FF clone. If... more... - Bill Hooker

what about Google Wave? Will it be replacement of FF? - Alexey

ReadWriteWeb article on Streamy: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive... - Walter Jessen

Nick Lothian - I'd be interesting in talking with you about what neds to be built. Cameron Neylon - I know a few things about web scaling and I would be happy to help evaluate frameworks. - Jordan M

Tons of options out there people http://lifestreamblog.com/create... Covering Lifetreaming services, scripts, and apps has been my passion for over two years. You got questions? I should have answers. - Mark Krynsky

what? no mention of Lifestream.fm?. shocking. - Avatar X

You could just add Lists to Facebook just like you do in here and add FF people into that list. - Manuel Mas

Liking that identoo at least has all the same services. - Mr. Gunn

Leo Laporte

I left Twitter for Jaiku. Then Jaiku left me for Google. I moved in with Pownce but it died. I went back to Twitter, but flirted with Plurk, Identica, and Rejaw, and even tried doing it myself with Laconica but it was Twitter I really loved. Twitter finally broke my heart so I left it for Friendfeed. Now Friendfeed is leaving me for Facebook. No...

August 11 - Comment - Like - Share

Christine Chan, david beckwith, Adnan and 437 other people liked this

It's like the internet version of Days of Our Lives - Jon, the Chilled Beartato

94 more comments

HAHAHAHAHA.... - David from IM

Haha. ROFL - Roberto Bonini

is friendfeed going anywhere or will it just get better? - Craig Shipp

I'm with you Leo. - Oracio

It reads better than Soap - my roadmap is very similar but I'll forgive FF and live happily ever after with it (for the time being, anyway) - Nicholas Paul Gordon from iPhone

You're the best Leo. Canadians are the funniest people. - Dan Lessard

I'm betting they'll slowly digest it into the Facebook news feed. They claim that Friendfeed is staying put for now, but that won't last. - Ken Bauer

And we keep following Leo all over the place! - Robert Scoble

Long live Leo - Randy Pollock

When will we all get in a long term relationship and stop getting our hearts broken? - Nate Pilling

so what is more important, the medium or the people, hope that FF will let us export our content, and our social netork :) (in my wild dreams) - abdellah

Need ice cream? I'm new to FF, and kind of sad I didn't jump on the proverbial wagon sooner! - Elizabeth K. Barone

Feels to me like maybe it's time to go back to building a distributed network, rather than hopping from service to service. - Ken Sheppardson

I hope you leave your standard breadcrumbs so we can find you in the next chapter of social interaction. - jcunwired

But where to next? That's the question. Wave sounds great, but the implementation will be a PAIN. So where? Oh LeoMoses...where is our path in the desert? - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift

Sounds like a hurtin' country song in the making. - Bill Rodman

The wave of the future is wave - Randy Pollock

Well you can't say that what is happening in the 'social sphere' is boring by any means! - Matt Cassem

I think Leo's audience is more likely to click "Like" or "comment" than Scoble's is. When Leo and Rob are both posting on FF, Leo gets more likes and comments - Mark

Didn't you leave a post earlier saying how funny it was that people complain anytime there's a change (referring to the FF buyout)? This sounds like a complaint to me. - Fleagle

Not complaining - just thinking about the future. I think a little Friendfeed DNA will vastly improve Facebook. And I think Facebook is already the big winner with the general populace. I also think we geeks need a corner somewhere else to hang out in. - Leo Laporte

And I have no plans to leave Friendfeed. Yet. - Leo Laporte

Yet being the operative word..... - Roberto Bonini

sounds like a country song to me - gavin

As for this geeky alternative, http://a.tinythread.com/ just showed up in my feed this morning. Thoughts? - Craig B.

I feel more of a personal connection with the FriendFeed team than I have with other services I've left, and that will be a big part of why I will stay as long as possible. - Louis Gray

^^^ replace "team" with "community" and there's my reason for sticking it out. - jcunwired

Its also going to take a very long time to go through content and bookmark/store it elsewhere. Evernote is going to be used heavily in the weeks to come. - jcunwired

The only way to have control is to use your own URL - Craig Shipp

Wait till you meet Facebook's randy cousin Overly Friendly Book =) - Cynthia Yildirim

what Louis gray said. I'm going to hang around until the lights go out. - Jordan Brock from BuddyFeed

What they said, I don't see any reason to leave FriendFeed unless something actually changes that makes the service worthless to me. - Craig B.

And many times you cheated Twitter, she was always loyal to you. Thats mean someting! - Jacque from f2p

yup me too Louis and I don't know any of them - Thomas Power

Plurk's not worth leaving anyone for. - Rachel R.

Leo, I think you need to change your FaceFeed status to "It's Complicated" ;) - Daynah

Play this thread off, keyboard cat. - Fleagle

You have to go back to your blog. It still loves you Leo. - Dave Winer

Screw you, Friendfeed! - Andrew Leahey

Users today are investors too - only the 'exit' for us is not lucrative.... its the other way sometimes :) - Mrinal Desai

I just had the idea: wow, how good will Faceboook become though this input? (JUST imagine tagging ppl in FB the way U can Tag them in FF.) - oliver gassner

Love Stinks. - shelter watch

I'm quite surprised that you could keep track of all that! - Robert Alex

Leo Laporte listed his relationship as: "its complicated." - Randy Shapiro

Damn thats complicated - drmacintosh

Don't worry Leo, its not you, its them... - Steven McGurn

so where do we go now? - Brian Appleby

I agree with Jonathan Hardesty "It's like the internet version of Days of Our Lives" - And sites keep getting killed off only to come back to life a month later! - Amy Flynn

very true, however on the other hand, we are getting closer to that one service which everyone will be on... and I dont think twitter is going to be that one - Bryce Campbell

Facebook buying FriendFeed is like having to MOVE just when you got your house all dressed up and made into a comfy HOME! I don't feel like doing it again! - Arleen Boyd

Now that Facebook and Friendfeed have married, I'm waiting for Twitfacefeedplebospacening. - Anthony Marco

You all just have ants in your pants :) - Jeunelle Foster

Leo, u by your self made two companies (services) out of 3 famous and made Google interested enough to buy 2 of them (Jaiku & FF). Google also tried to flirt with Twitter as well. So which one u choose now? Cause we will follow u :P - Sam Ehsan

Sounds like some of my past love affairs. Of course, I'm married now. That, um, was prior. - Paul Chaney

lmfao, its so true leo, so true! - Derek Bender

Feeling a bit worn around the edges? ... me too! - Susan Beebe from iPhone

Speaking of Days Of Our Lives: Didn't that show jump the shark when the serial killer was unmasked as Marlena (a character I used to have a mad crush on, and who's now mostly a professional victim)? Then all the "killed" characters came back to life, since they were only what I call "soap opera dead"... - Dennis Jernberg

And if everyone follows you, then your all having affairs all over the place! LOL - Sandra Large

I think it's back to the TWiT Army! - Paul Salzman

It's not like we have proposed Healthcare reform, or anything really important, going on in the U.S.A. - Steve de Mena

it's getting ridiculous, FEDERATED is the word! - Dobromir Hadzhiev

who is actually leaving FF? have many people vowed to do so yet? I'd like to but there isn't any alternative. - Denise Young

the joys and sorrows of everyday social IT folks... :-) - Thomas Lee

People are talking a lot about Streamy today. Might be an alternative. - Caio Cesar

Streamy seems to be crashing left & right tho. - Rick Cogley

Not to mention Pownce was shutdown as soon as it got good! - Kenneth Reitz

No mention of Microsoft Vine? - Robert MacEwan

yep. welcome to another episode of; As the Stomach Turns. one big soap opera. - Scratch5150

I've decided I'm not going to tell ANYONE which site I'm favoring... not even myself! I swear! As soon as I decided that FF was my new place (a couple months ago) THIS happens! It's like magic, but in a bad bad way... - Mark "Godt Nyt Ǻr"

Why do we all assume this is a bad thing? Maybe the FF Facebook combo will be better?? - Craig Shipp

Maybe they'll keep both open -- FF is the open side, and FB is the closed side. - John Flinchbaugh from IM

Social Networks are sluts? - TheDiva Rockin

It sure is. - Jason Hill

I know exactly how you feel. What's a person to do? I am mad at Twitter for suspending some of my accounts. First, the accounts kept causing the password to reset, then they were suspended, all around the time of the DOS attacks. All I ever used Twitter for was to advertise my businesses, and for fun. Now I don't know where to go. - DogPatch

Here's some thoughts on what's going to happen:http://kennethreitz.com/blog... - Kenneth Reitz

It's like my beloved Archie comics romantic twists from childhood! Archie loves Veronica who loves Reggie who loves Betty who loves Archie... ;) - Shawn Zehnder Lea

More like "As the worm churns" - Houseofmax

한글 와서~ 루거 .. 당신은 정말 잘 생기고있다 누드 사진 기다리다 :] - HealingBrush

One of the funniest sad stories I've heard in a long time... - Aviva Gabriel

Gotta find one who is a lady in public and a whore in the bedroom. One who looks like a woman, but thinks like a man. One who tells you you're the only person in their world and worships the ground you walk on. One who's from Venus but want's to live on Mars. One who you know will always be there even when the chips are down. One who looks like a movie star, but doesn't bust the credit... more... - Jan Simmonds

I think a lot of people LOVE to think negatively and don't want to think positively. They think FB is BAD and will ruin FF, but I think if they do it well, FB won't be the bad guy. I think most people who are irked about this are irked because they think the FFers "sold out" to the "man". - Molly, New Ears :P

@Mollyanna - I disagree. I am irked because the future of FF is completely uncertain. It's more likely that FB will let FF flounder and close it down than it is that FB will invest time and resources in maintaining and enhancing FF. FB has other interests and is splitting up the FF dev team. That does not bode well for FF. I don't begrudge the FF devs for taking the money. I would be... more... - Fa La La La Lindsay

Leo, I hope you mention FriendFeed in your Dubai TED talk ! :) I'll try to be there ! - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

@Jan You're an asshat. - Ian Wright from BuddyFeed

leo, check out Streamy.com. I'm actually commenting to friendfeed from there right now...you may like it better. - Casey Petersen

looooool =)) - ★amin.m★

Haiku Laporte - Outsanity

that was cute! :O) - Jeanne

@ian - "Wordsmith. Public relations undergraduate at The University of Texas. Feminist Capitalist. WordPress geek. Future commercial rights attorney"...surely that kind of asinine comment is beneath you! - Jan Simmonds

Maybe they're just not that into you. - Elizabeth Johnson

Wait... who's on first? - Michael Rosenau

Logged in to suggest that many of us have tridden a similar path, but a lot of people have beaten me to it! I miss Pownce - SpionKopRed

wow, Leo. You've got relationship issues! - Justin Bradshaw

there there, Shawny's here... - sofarsoShawn

I sense a pattern here.. maybe you always seem to go after web2.0 services that are bent on ditching you :) - Shivanand Velmurugan

vijay

what I want is freedom... from cryptic ToS, from prying hands and eyes on my data, and from intrusive Ads. Open FTW! #facebookSux

August 11 - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego, Darren Heydon, Tanath and 17 other people liked this

4chan - Victor Ryden

10 more comments

I knew someone would bring that up but didn't think it would be so early in the discussion :D - vijay

I'm actually fine with 4chan or 5 chan as long as it has the same features(realtime and people discovery being primary) and community FF has. - vijay

4chan definitely does not have the same community as FriendFeed, lol. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

the problem is, no one values that enough to actually *pay* for it. At least not for the near future. Even if we assumed it was community developed and maintained by passionate hobbyists, hosting still costs money. - mikepk

++ mike. that is true. passionate hobbyism doesn't grow to the size of friendfeed. - vijay

let's just file this under "My Rants" for now. Theres nothing much going to happen in this direction in the short term. - vijay

I still predict we're going to see a massive collapse of 'free'. There needs to be some re-calibration of the value equation online, but it's going to be painful and it's going to take a long time. - mikepk

It's a nice sentiment tho. I hope it happens. :) - mikepk

*offers vijay my dad's IBM Selectric* - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) from iPod

lol MVB! IBM, Apple II, what did you guys do at home? Multi-OS LAN gaming? hahahaha! - vijay

Hey you want privacy... - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) from iPod

Akiva Moskovitz

CATSTARE - http://www.misrule.org/friendf...

November 12, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Andrizzle Gizzle, Derek van Vliet, Molly, New Ears :P and 157 other people liked this

NO, SIR. I HAVE *YOU* IN *MY* EYE. - Akiva Moskovitz from Bookmarklet

60 more comments

Must... hide.... but.... can't... move... hand..... - Ladybug Heather

Damn I just flipped back to firefox and I got a cat staring at me. I'm now freaked out. - Chris Rivait

Now that is a cat I'd have - Mo Kargas

Shhhhh! It's trying to tell me something... - Josh Haley

EXORCIST!!! aaaaaaaaahhhh!! - Susan Beebe

holy freakin cow! so funny. :D - vijay

redrum, redrum. (So much Awesome!) - AJ Kohn

I have been annoying my WoW guild mates for months in the forums with this avatar. :D - Haggis (Sean Loyless)

Yikes. - Steven Perez

I would like to meet that cat. - Rochelle

I think that cat has already met you... - Akiva Moskovitz

Dogs have owners, cats have staff. - Dave Martin

that cat is creeping me out. his eyes go right through me! - BEX

catstare.gif FTW! This cat has been in our livingroom for an entire week. - veo

this is why I'm a dog person. - marthalib

Stares the crap out of that hamster.http://au.youtube.com/watch... - Will Higgins™

I'd worry when I was sleeping if that cat lived in my house. - Thomas Hawk

Freaks me out! - Mike Reynolds

lolwut?! - ax0n

woah! Have you joined the cat room yet? - orionstarr

lolcats - Noah David Simon

"I gonna kill you.." - Kristian Salonen

I can't help but stare back at crazy kitteh every time this post pops up. Gah! lol! - Carmen - Happy 2010!

LOL - Jon, the Chilled Beartato

Seriously. Would you people stop liking/commenting on this? It keeps popping up to the top of my stream and I have to stare at it again. - Akiva Moskovitz

Nothing wrong with that. - Jordan Hofker

Sorry ^^" ...AGAIN, muhahahahaa! - Kristian Salonen

Akiva: No problem. - Chris Baskind

Ok, that would freak me out. - Jason Shultz

I have seen this a million times on myspace for years... we all have I'm sure. it is just great to comment here because then we can snag new people that are stupid enough to comment. ....you were the one who posted it Akiva. Fresh Fish for the TROLLS... hey Igor... 86 likes here means the bounty is ours. mo ha ha ha ah Fresh fish were looking at the stupid cat. - Noah David Simon

Let's convert everyone to Trollism! ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

now you know why kitty is paying attention - Noah David Simon

STARING CAT IS STARING - Akiva Moskovitz

I've already liked this! - veo

holy crap that scared me - Alfredo from fftogo

creeptastic! - CAJ, somewhere else

Sleep well, cameraman...sleep well... - Craig Durling

I want to like this again. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

If it just raise its paw, it would be a perfect Maneki Neko (japanese beckoning cat - good luck symbol) - Gilgamesh

I don't think that this cat wants you to have any good luck. - Akiva Moskovitz

NOT AGAIN! - Steven Perez

he is a mesmerist!!! - Mauricio Businari

Happy Caturday ! - johnpiercy

O_O - Haggis (Sean Loyless)

Go away, scary munchkin cat! - Bec Rowe @d0tski

Is this a moving image fakery? I think the cat's head is CGI. - Marg Uerite

"I know he didn't just call me a Ho?!" - Carlton Hackett

I've got one thing you'll understand (Dr. Feelgood)/ he's not what you'd call a glamorous man (Dr. Feelgood)/ Got one thing that's easily understood (Dr. Fee lgood)/ He's the one they call Dr. Feelgood - Christopher Harley

NEVER FORGET - Akiva Moskovitz

Augh! I hate those round-headed Japanese domestic cat breeds. Bleagh. - Spidra Webster

*sniff* one of my first animated gif experiences on FF evar. - Josh Haley

It's the only animated GIF I'll actually tolerate. - Akiva Moskovitz

but...but...so many gifs! - Josh Haley

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if I want animation on my desktop, I'll grab a window and then whip it around the screen with my mouse. - Akiva Moskovitz

It seems to be the only animated gif that doesn't crash my browser, too. COINCIDENCE?! - joey

LOVE IT! Can't believe I missed this back in November. - Mathew™ one of a kind

I feel so guilty about...something - s t e v e

One of the Classics ,, - johnpiercy

that cat freaks me out every time! - Jannifer @wordsforliving

STILL THERE! - Christopher Harley

geezus that's still freaky - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

DeWitt Clinton

Anyway, I'm out.

August 10 - Comment - Like - Share

Fabrice Epelboin, Ahsan Ali aka. Slick, Jorge Escobar and 45 other people liked this

Last post. No hard feelings, though. Love the site, love the community, and many congrats to the team. - DeWitt Clinton

40 more comments

That's a shame: you're is definitely one of the highlights of my FriendFeed experience, and I think this is a harbinger of things to come. I suppose there's always Twitter. - Mark Trapp

Thanks, Mark. And likewise. Anyway, I'll start blogging again. I've 80% completed the rewrite of my new blogging engine and this is the kick in the pants I needed. Hope to see you over there! - DeWitt Clinton

Yah, sad to see you go, and will definitely keep an eye on your blog. - Jason Wehmhoener

We may all be out soon. - Mathew™ one of a kind

SO long. Can we still follow you on Twitter??? - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

DeWitt, care to elaborate on your reasons? It's people like you that make FF discussions and pointers interesting. - Philipp Lenssen

Catch you on Reader? - EricaJoy

+1 on what Mark said. - Ivan Zuzak

DeWitt -- I agree. I'm going to work on my blogging platform too. - Dave Winer

It's kinda sad. I loved FF's UI, the community was perfect, but I have a feeling the site isn't going to last more than a few months. I can't stand Twitter and the 140 character annoyances and lack of other features, so that pretty much means I'll be back to blogging/Google Reader/and email. Maybe some enterprising individual will build a real time FF-like network on top of a federated wave protocol. :) Or maybe PubSubHubBub or rssCloud stuff will take off and make the whole thing moot. - Ray Cromwell

DeWitt, you could always head over to Jaiku. I promise it won't get bought out. - Adewale Oshineye

That was my first (and 2nd) reaction -- "where's the 'delete account' button?" - Scott McMullan

I'm out as well. Probably wait for a http://kakuteru.com/ invite or go with a selfhosted http://sweetcron.com/ - Mario Valente

I won't quit until the real-FriendFeed actually dies. Like Adam Lasnik, I hope this will not happen anytime soon. - Sebastian

Why is this your last post DeWitt? - Paul Buchheit

Dude, don't go. We are not going anywhere. Seriously, we aren't. Mind explaining your reasons? - Bret Taylor

Comment moved to [http://friendfeed.com/ianf...] in accordance with [apparent] behavioral model for FF posts: post to your own feed or you're cooked. And even there you're cooked after another 600 posts or so… - ianf ⌘

This is sad for everyone. DeWitt didn't want to leave (until today's change of perception) and we'all don't want him to leave. But here we are. - Micah Wittman

@Micah, the hoops I have to jump through just to be able to respond to you in a hypertextual fashion: http://friendfeed.com/ianf... - ianf ⌘

Bret, I don't think you make those decisions anymore. There is no way FB is going to keep a competitor alive inside itself. - Antonio Piccolboni

Ianf, I once had a comment deleted because it was posted after midnight. Just ignore people who do that, they are not worth your time. - Antonio Piccolboni

I don't think that jumping from one proprietary service to another is going to improve anything. We need a federated model for sharing and discussing. - Antonio Piccolboni

@Antonio: http://friendfeed.com/ianf... - ianf ⌘

Ian, our API should give you full access to all of your data. Let me know if there's anything missing. - Paul Buchheit

Paul, while that may be well and true, not everyone on FF is versed in how to use said API to extract their own data. Many are waiting for a tool to be developed because they're not able to develop one themselves. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Hey Paul, I may be doing it wrong, but it appears you can only retrieve a subset at a time (I think around 300 or so entries?) via the API, which makes it non-trivial for non-developers to utilize. Is there a way to get around that limit? - Mark Trapp

Mark, we'll be sure to get that fixed. - Paul Buchheit

Great, thanks Paul! - Mark Trapp

Mark: the limit should be extremely high in the API (20000 I believe). let us know if you run into it. - Benjamin Golub from fftogo

Wave Federated Protocol????? - Roberto Bonini

Benjamin: I'm probably doing it wrong. I'm making an unauthenticated request to http://friendfeed-api.com/v2... and it's only returning stuff since August 5th. Adding the start parameter to it and setting it to 3000 returns stuff from the beginning of the year, only a few day's worth of stuff. Is there a different feed? Or should I be authenticating to get past the 300 item limit? - Mark Trapp

Mark: passing num=20000 to an authenticated request does not work either - alieb

A lot is happening today… perhaps the FF team finally realizes that not everybody is an API master in their own class; and that referring one to the API for casual retrieval/review of past words is not really an answer... it's a lame adission of not having an answer. Also see: http://friendfeed.com/ianf... [@alieb: I think you should address your words to Benjamin, not Mark.] - ianf ⌘

I'm addressing my words to Mark since he made a few questions and my statement is a reply to his latest one. - alieb

Yeah, nolo contendere, but it's Benjamin Golub of the FF team who supplied apparently untrue data limit here - the one that you attempted to verify… - ianf ⌘

Mark: as far as I know num is limited to 100. You need to pass start= as an index. Is it the oldest feed? http://friendfeed-api.com/v2... (We should move to friendfeed-api group for more detail if needed) - NaHi from f2p

Hiroshi, that's a good idea. I'll create a post. - Mark Trapp

Yes, num is limited to 100 (num is the number of entries obtained at once). Start is limited to 20000. Start is the location to start fetching from. - Benjamin Golub

Ok, thanks Ben. So no one can go beyond his/her 20100th entry? (do we have that much btw?) - directeur

My god this is just getting silly now. - Hayes Haugen

DeWitt, can you share more about your blogging engine? Is it based on App Engine? - Michael R. Bernstein

Alex Scoble

Is it wrong for me to feel a certain sense of betrayal? I didn't spend all my time here making connections, adding in interesting content and trying to get friends to join so that friendfeed would get acquired by Facebook.

August 10 - Comment - Like - Share

Kim, sofarsoShawn, Mitchell Tsai and 168 other people liked this

I guess I should be glad that I made a bunch of new friends here and have learned a lot, but I just wish that the guys at friendfeed hadn't sold out to a company that doesn't really need what friendfeed has. - Alex Scoble

91 more comments

I think betrayal is the word of the day around here. - Akiva Moskovitz

EXACTLY! - Kandeezie

Damn. Just heard.... Not sure what I think yet, but I worry about the openness of my info and postings. - Mark Aitken

You guys amuse me. - Cristo

Meh - Andrew Roche

Whatever, Chris, I'm not amused. - Alex Scoble from IM

@Alex: I completely agree... and I haven't been and won't ever be on Facebook... - Harold - Happy New Year

not wrong at all. I actually feel a little hurt. - Jim in Real Time

Yeah, I think betrayed is a good description... - Fa La La La Lindsay

But let's be honest, they built this to make money and survive. Gotta say I'm pleased it's shown to be worth something, and I'm guessing a significant something for FB to acquire them. Wonder if they were offered shares in FB as part of the deal? - Mark Aitken

I guess we are all betrayed - in certain terms.. but FB should have done its market research before it got this property. Most of the USERS are not happy with FB type of connections or that property , so we left and looked for something better, it was FF. Now a new hunt will begin ! - Peter Dawson

I think a lot of us feel betrayed. - Mathew™ one of a kind

What did you do it for then? - George F. Snell III

I think it's too soon to feel betrayed. This interview made me feel a lot better about the whole deal: http://bit.ly/PReef - Adam Reyher from Alert Thingy

actually, you kinda did. if users like you didn't create so much value, Facebook wouldn't have acquired (notwithstanding feelings of betrayal). - jeffscott

Yeah. That's excatly how I feel. - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

Throws a sheep at Alex... Yeah, that wasn't much fun. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

I share your sentiments in many ways. I have been proud to tell others who had no idea that FF existed how good it is (lets hope not was!) Lets hope they keep the spirit alive. By the way the minute I see any target 'phorm' style advertising, I am off to find a new up and coming. I wont run to Tumblr yet but I do have one foot in already, just in case. - Kevin J Hatton

My immediate reaction was Facebook will push ads onto their users. I think FriendFeed could be seriously screwed up with live moving ads, so that's hopefully out of the picture from a purely usability view. Friendfeed is all about realtime web information. I then wonder how in that case will the monetise the relationship. My guess? Facebook will show live conversations and hopefully they will rip out the poor IM implementation in Facebook. The purchase may be nothing more sinister, I hope... - Mark Aitken

Feeling a bit of betrayal, or unhappiness atleast. Have a Facebook account but rarely use it since it's a walled garden. Preferred Friendfeed for better technology, organization, but even more so it's openness! - LonelyBob

Betrayed is a strong word, but I do feel a loss of ownership. And it's not like I really 'owned' the community, or the content I put into it. All the same, I contributed, and the more a person contributes to something, the more they feel a sense of entitlement (?) or ownership. Now it's as if I've had someone just pull a rug out from under me. - cecily

I don't give 2 cents if that's wrong or not but I feel betrayed. - vijay

Peter, I doubt FB gives a crap about FF users. FB wanted the talent that worked at FF, not the product. - Jeff P. Henderson

I understand the sentiment, but this is the way of tech apps;.nothing stays the same for long. Feeling betrayed is not gonna change anything. Either you roll with the changes and try to force the positive, or you quit. - Rene Wirtz

I agree with Cecily that betrayal is a strong word. I have always understood that FriendFeed is a free service, thus I can't claim control over it. Though, really, I wonder what s going to happen to my thousands of likes, comments, posts, etc. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

:-) + :-( - Majento

Completely concur with you Alex. Just goes to show maybe there is room for another platform... - Arleen Boyd

As I said elsewhere, this was a talent + buzz acquisition. I sorta wish I could download my FF history and host it on my own server with SweetCron or something. - Anthony Citrano

+1 Alex. EndFeed's the word... well, how about everybody grieves for 5 minutes, then gets the search for greener pastures under way. There was plenty to be improved about FriendFeed (been saying that since well before this announcement), so I just hope that someone else has the databasing/real-time wherewithal to build something like this, improved. - Alex Schleber

Facebook doesn't even give a crap about their own users - Alex Scoble from IM

Do any of these sites give a crap though Alex? I understand what you are saying and how it makes you feel this way, but I realised a long time ago.. they are ALL businesses and the bottom line is NO they don't give a crap... because they are NOT depending on you to be ok.. - Rob Sellen :o)

friendfeed at least acted as though they gave a crap...at least until today. And there's nothing about being a business that says "crapping on your customers is OK". Business is business does not equal "screw your customers to make a buck". - Alex Scoble from IM

That and stunned. Lately I've been describing Friendfeed to the uninitiated as "a facebook without all the crap." Unfortunately, it looks like now it'll just be integrated into all the crap, if kept at all. That said, congratulations to the FF team - this is a big win for them and they deserve a lot of kudos. I look forward to the web apps they come up with in the future. - Chris Rogers

"Is it wrong for me to feel a certain sense of betrayal?" - in an emotional sense, no. In a literal sense, yes, unless you can show me where FriendFeed made a commitment to you that they'd never change in a way that didn't fit your ideals for the service. - Edward Coffey

i'm just hoping they will keep friendfeed separate and use it as a testing ground for new features. - Edgar Rodríguez

They made a commitment to us when they built a service that wasn't called Facebook or Twitter. They made a commitment to us when they listened to our feedback and participated in our feeds. They made a commitment to us with their actions. A commitment that has been forever shattered with their deal with the internet equivalent of the devil. - Alex Scoble from IM

Lindsey is right.. the thing is Alex... friendfeed is STILL here... ;o) YOU are still here... - Rob Sellen :o)

Not for long, Rob. I give friendfeed a year tops. - Alex Scoble from IM

And forget about any improvements to the site. You know that the team will be much too busy trying to figure out what the next iteration of Facebook should look like. - Alex Scoble from IM

Yep , definitely a sense of foreboding there ... "for the time being" - Tom Horn

I can empathize with these sentiments, but Social Media is a set of tools--I appreciate the connections I make, but I'm not getting too emotionally worked-up about the tools changing. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

why? friendfeed.com is not going anywhere is it... no reason this place couldn't stay.. what if they LOCKED friendfeed users in now.. said.. we WILL reward you users for helping us, testing things for us etc... ;o) - Rob Sellen :o)

Rob...did you not notice who bought them? Facebook is known for doing dick for their users. - Alex Scoble

Absolutely not Alex, I feel the same way. About 18 months' collection of content, great friends, an open community all gone. We now are marched into an atmosphere of censorship and walled relationships where users don't amount to a hill of beans. Really, really sucks. - jcunwired

I'm sure FF is going away one way or another; there's no way that the combined company is going to keep developing full steam ahead on both products. Is it wrong to feel betrayed? I don't know. I don't personally feel betrayed, but I guess I'm not nearly as invested in FF as you and others are. I do think the end result may be something positive though; the ability to interact with the larger FB community on this level is something that could be truly wonderful. Then again, it might just end in tears... - Tristan Seligmann

Especially when we consider that while they built the tools, we as a community are what made it great - both with our usage, our dedication and our regular feedback to make the site better. As I said before, its our fault FB even looked this way. - jcunwired

"...internet equivalent of the devil" - ohh-kayy...*backs away slowly* - Edward Coffey

betrayal isn't the word i feel. it's just business. i do agree with Anthony Citrano: I wonder if there's a way to pull all of my stuff out of FF and put it on my own machine. the year I've spent here, and the 2+ years on Twitter and FB, have been to the detrimiment of my own writing and content creation. The thing about all social media is they depend on users to fill their cyber-vessels with content, and then they make a living off of that...but it's pretty difficult for you to reclaim your "stuff" later. - .LAG liked that

If Google's motto is "do no evil" then Facebook's motto is "do whatever we want to our customers, even when it makes absolutely no sense"...yeah, I'd consider that to be bordering on evil. - Alex Scoble from IM

I did Alex.. Facebook sucks in many ways, they treat users like shit... BUT does this deal mean the actual end of frienfeed.com < the domain etc... what about if this place is used like a testing place and kept here? who knows? - Rob Sellen :o)

Ironic that! ToS & privacy & UCG & bandwidth & yet how much of that can be measured without actuarial measurements of packet flow? Not surprised based on much of the commentary the past 18 months. Attribution & authenticity matters. - Scott Moskowitz from iPhone

Get this out of your system soon, before time runs out :) https://friendfeed.com/jcunwir... - jcunwired

I think betrayal is appropriate - the FB community is NOT the FF community. Even if they make it better, or build something completely new, they will at some point shut down or gut what they have here. - Jennifer Dittrich

As long as my stuff is still indexed, I don't really care. I love Facebook - and I love watching my real friends interact with my Internet friends. :) - Mona Nomura

FWIW TXT is a bigger "content" biz than music, movies, games combined ... Yet this was not a predictable exit? Come on ... Said many times - what is a fair split for UCG & those that skim the packet flow? - Scott Moskowitz from iPhone

Betrayal is definitely appropriate. So is apprehension and a little bit of anger. - Mike Lewis

I feel the same way! I'm glad I'm not alone in that feeling. I have facebook I don't like it as much I like FF. - Anna Lynn M.

I don't feel betrayed. I am, however, worried. And I know people will jump all over me and say that I am a fool for thinking that anything online can stay hidden. I wasn't naive enough to think I'd never be found, but I take steps to try to head that off. I don't use my full name, I don't link certain social sites to the blog, I don't let the blog be indexed, etc. And now, with one... more... - pea

I wouldn't worry about Facebook integrating your FriendFeed content into Facebook; that doesn't seem very likely to me. - Tristan Seligmann

I feel you, Alex, and dread what is to come. But at the same time, seeing the reported terms of the deal, I don't think I would have turned it down either. - Michael W. May

Alex - Think you'd have to agree (despite the fact we don't know everything) that they were smart. On the other hand, it's pretty obvious you're not alone in your sentiments (Funny - posted this to Robert's stream first by boo-boo :) - Charlie Anzman

Alex, I feel your pain - but someone was going to acquire FriendFeed. It was inevitable. I'm just glad Facebook didn't buy Twitter. - Bill Sodeman

I would rather that Google bought friendfeed and Facebook acquired Twitter. That would have been justice. This...this is a travesty. - Alex Scoble

So would I alex..but it never happened.. - Rob Sellen :o)

Do you think Microsoft finish the job and eat Facebook? - τorƍue

:( - Martha

pea brings up an interesting point - pseudonymity is allowed by FF, disallowed by Facebook.And what of the FF groups? - Richard pancakhaus Walker

τorƍue, or worse - Oracle buying out Facebook. hehe - imabonehead

follow the money - L Stephen Cleary

I completely agree with you, Alex. - Johnny from BuddyFeed

I love the way FriendFeed works, I hate Facebook interfaces. I wish there was another FriendFeed-like service to jump to. - Amit Morson

I've never found Facebook to be intuitive, and I just enjoyed the manner of connecting here. Not sure what to feel now. - Rick Cogley

I don't think it's wrong to feel betrayed. If Facebook bought Twitter, honestly I would feel the same way. I think they're going to shutter the store here, which is kind of sad, but we'll see.... - matt singley

My fears are threefold. I fear unavoidable unwanted integration. I fear the addition of the awful Facebook TOS, and I fear the loss of the community. That last one is the big one. - Joe Pierce

Joe, perhaps FB may change their TOS... - Bill Sodeman

my sense of betrayal is so strong that I made this --->- http://bit.ly/A0jWq - vijay

It's all about the money, It's all about the dum dum didudumdum, I don't think it's funny... - Dobromir Hadzhiev

Bill, that is a nice thought but it is very doubtful. It would solve a lot of the problem I have with them if they did though. I seriously just don't want to lose the awesome community that has built up here. I mean without FF how would I keep up with Alex, its not like I live in the same town....oh wait /stalkermodeactivate! - Joe Pierce

If you find any decent asylum, Ryo, please check a room for me, as well, please. - Zackatoustra from email

Guess we didn't read the Terms of Service carefully enough. :-( - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

I wish it was Twitter, Google, even Yahoo but not Facebook. - Jacque

Yes, it stings like a ... - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

Would you have not spent all the time here (etc...) if you were told that this is a start-up business and could get acquired at any time? Or could run out of money and shut down at any time? At least you had a chance to make the connections and share/consume that content...for free. Looks like you're better off than you were before you joined, no? - Mohamed J

Yes, that's probably an accurate way to describe it, a sense of betrayal. Of course, we're not paying money to use this good service though we are paying time and good will, so it can be argued I suppose that FF did not betray us. I'm feeling upset myself, because I have never liked FB much. I did not want to be on there but got invited by old friends. I don't like the walled garden... more... - Rick Cogley

Rick: +1 - imabonehead

I am agree :( - Janice

I especially feel crappy because I evangelized FF aggressively among my friends, most of whom are on Facebook. - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

To Alex Schleber: if you build it, we will come. Seriously, what Rick Cogley said too - I love that I can interact with almost anyone, not just people I'd interact with anyway and, in my case, have known forever. I love that it's like a small, really fun cocktail party with your friends, some of their friends, and a few strangers - as opposed to a convention (or, for me, a high school reunion!). Sad. - Amy℠

It's not wrong to feel betrayed, but everyone has their price - sadly. - David Jagger

The way the transaction was done is a betrayal of trust. Facebook can buy FF but not the trust of FF users. How much user pay for FF pay? Nothings? The time we invest in this application worth somethings unless you consider users of FF like shit.... Who care that crew of morons (FF users)? Just sell FF and move them like potatoes, right? Wrong! Trust can't be bought even with $50 Millions FriendFeed? Call it FailFriend. :S - Claude LaFrenière

Yeah, Claude, it's definitely a trust thing. - Rick Cogley

I've examined the emotional reaction of Alex (and others) to the announcement http://empoprise-bi.blogspot.com/2009... - John E. Bredehoft

Dave Winer

FB buying FF is bad news for FF users.

August 10 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Youssef EL ABASSI, Yinka, Stanislas Jourdan and 222 other people liked this

Agree totally Dave - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

78 more comments

Why do you think so Dave? - Tim Akinbo

10000% agree, its dreadul and the big boys like Leo and Scoble cant seem to see it! - Mark

Leo laporte says "This is a big step toward an open Facebook. This has been their goal all along: a distributed Facebook." What a Crock of SHITE - Mark

They bought the people! - Mark

yeah... but it is also a smart move, they got the team.. - Rob Sellen :o)

I'm trying to give the FF team the benefit of the doubt...but I'm having a hard time with it as well. - Ken Kennedy

Born to be sold, we were used to say in the new economy era. - Federico Bolsoman

They bought the people. We Stick with that. FF guys are Smart/fast and have deep Google knowledge - Marco Massarotto from iPhone

Woah. I step away from the computer for a couple hours and this is what happens? - Travis B. Hartwell

I agree an independent Friendfeed might be preferable for we few brave FF users. But the writing was on the wall. For most users it's Twitter or Facebook or nothing at all. Aligning with Facebook is smart long term thinking if FB is planning to open up as I am convinced they are. - Leo Laporte from BuddyFeed

Let's hope that FB doesn't block people from using the 'competeition' while on FF. - shelter watch

Seems everything's headed for an autumn war Facebook <> Google Wave - Jordi Soler

At first I like the idea of FF & FB, but now I'm starting to think it's bad for FF - Ray H

hmm, an open, new version of FB that uses all of what makes FF great would be nice. - Dusty Edenfield

Leo's got the right idea, and independence is a myth - Steve Gillmor

Well, how could it possibly be a good thing? - Fleagle

Agree, I'm not a Facebook fan although I try but.. I'd definitely take FF over FB anyday. - Sharon Dexter

I prefer a FriendFeed folded into Facebook versus a FriendFeed that quietly fades away, which is the direction this was going. - Mike Doeff

Totally agree - facebook is so tedious and slow. FF is wonderful. - Zphotogal

+1 mike - Riaz Kanani

We imagine FB with the SEO juice of FF, thus intercepting search traffic... - Marco Massarotto from iPhone

I can certainly see the best ideas from FF being folded into FB but not sure what that says about the future of this site and the data it contains - Keith Harrison

Except for the whole FriendFeed dying slowly in the obscure ghetto of the digirati part. As Mike said, FF in FB is better than no FF at all. FriendFeed users are far better off having it than watching it its gradual anemia grow worse and worse until one day it vanishes. - Curtis Schweitzer

While this may never happen, consider it a possibility - your entire FB feed now available in FF. - Tim Akinbo

It is really hard to see how FB will do more than incorporate staff and ideas from FF. FriendFeed's design of being a very open aggregator is very different than FB's walled garden ethic. I also think part of what attracted me to prefer FF over FB is the clean interface, as opposed to FB fire-in-a-bordello presentation style. I hope FB really listens on the UI side and not just on the aggregator side, or works just mines out the staff. - David Lounsbury

This is a good thing for FF and FB both. This will lead to a more open FB and steal Twitter's thunder. - Tim

"the writing on the wall?" ... that's just hyperbole, Leo. Paul Buchheit himself said in his interview w/ Scoble that they could have kept the service alive "for years"...there was no financial issue forcing this, like tr.im or something. And while I suppose there are those that believe the most popular site/music/art/people are always the best, I think that's both a shallow way of... more... - Ken Kennedy

Like 4 Ken - Marco Massarotto from iPhone

What I care about most is having a Facebook profile that is *actually* public, viewable by non-users. - Andrew Roche

I definitely DONT LIKE IT grmphhh ! - laetSgo

@andrew that's one thing FF team is very good at: climbing Google :) - Marco Massarotto from iPhone

DOnt like it either. I'm off to a self hosted http://sweetcron.com/ or wait for a http://kakuteru.com/ invite. - Mario Valente

One thing that can be said about social communities - its the people who build the product. Had we not given excellent feedback to FriendFeed developers in creating our perfect world FB wouldn't have had an interest. Its our fault. :( - jcunwired

i'll agree to wait this one out before being totally devastated about Facebook buying FriendFeed - Chris Heath

Let's leave "en masse" - Giorgio Burlini from iPhone

Motion carried, motion passed. - Zachary TG

Facebook is banned from my work computer. - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed

Live *open* BadHair podcast in 8 minutes. (347) 843-4661. Call in if you have a comment or question re FB/FF. Starts in 3 minutes. - Dave Winer

Wait and see ... - Kate Foy

It means you'll have to share. wahhhhh - Andrew Smith

I think it is a bad idea. I don't like to use Facebook except for frivolous reasons. FF has been good for reliable information. I suppose I'll stop using it so much now. We'll see. - Barbara K. Iverson

I want to see where this is going but definitely my favorite social site just got folded into my least favorite. - Braden Douglass

It depends entirely on what direction FF would have taken next (and what direction it will take Dave). Think most of us that have been around FF since almost the start (when it was a MUCH smaller place) miss that but this actually might be a good thing. - Charlie Anzman

Agreed if they lose the FF interface. - Wei-Yen Tan

If we put all our faith into a single platform or a single solution [Twitter/FB/Goog] then we lose touch with people, processes and where history is taking us. In this case, we’re headed more in the direction of where .tel and Identi.ca are stumbling, consciously or not: towards a non-web-centric, permission-based polycephalous set of systems, where discussions and messaging transpire... more... - A Mitchell

Google Wave is coming to replace all this stuff. And Google Reader will get more social features including item recommendations through comparing users likes, and so Google will win this. Good time to sell. - Charbax

Interesting convo we had there dave, thanks for letting us call in and participate. - Chris Heath

But the real question is who will take over who? Isn't there a possibility that FriendFeed will takeover Facebook! I hope FB make it work as I like the idea of FF but it doesn't have the critical mass of people talking about what I am interested in! - Phillip Molly Malone

Very bad I'm sure there will be some changes - Annika from Nambu

I agree it's probably bad news for FF users.FF has reliable info. I don't want it to become chatter. - Leigh Marriner

I'll admit to being a recent convert to FF but it was the best social site I have used yet (and I have used them all). I am sorry to see it lose it's independence. This will not end well for FF groupies. But my reading of the tea leaves is that FF options as a standalone service were not good. I guess this is a sign of a maturing market. Can a Larry Ellison acquisition be far behind? - Michael Liss

simply but clear - Gioia Feliziani

I agree with Dave's original assertion. I'm struggling to imagine the value Facebook could add to FriendFeed, and I can certainly imagine the downsides. Having an aggregator that sits independently on top of the commercial pile, while fleeting as a free service, is a valuable one. - Allred

disagree. - Gus

I have my suspicions too. But Facebook have been wanting to open up more for some time (e.g., they're eliminating regional networks), and I'm guessing they see FF as the key. I'm betting they'll fuse the two services soon. But let's hope they use FF to improve FB. But there's always a big chance FB will ruin FF. Stay tuned... - Dennis Jernberg

+1 for A Mitchell's insights. If tr.im and FF have taught us anything, it's that no matter how many open api's there are, a closed platform is still a closed platform, and it can disappear overnight. We need a decentralized yet federated way to do all that FF did (and more). If it's not decentralized, we don't have redundancy. if it's not federated, we lose community an conversation. - Don Faulkner from BuddyFeed

another +1, Don and A Mitchell. I just finished a blog post along almost exactly the same lines, Don...decentralization and federation are both key. Good news is, this is historically how things go...nerds only, then mainstream joins, but centralized (think AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy...services and email that couldn't talk to each other). As the systems mature, then value of decentralization becomes apparent. This week could actually be an important milestone in speeding up that process *here's to hoping...*. - Ken Kennedy

But Facebook buying friendfeed is great news for the 250+ million fb users! (And most ff users have fb :) - Garin Kilpatrick

It would have been better (slightly) if they were acquired by Twitter. I'm not a Twitter fan, but I think FF would bring more to twitter, it would be a better fit and the users and the interface would have a better chance at "integration" - Mario Valente

I've read its good for FF, it's bad for FF. It's better than being sold to google, it's better than being sold to twitter. Myriad variations on a theme, which leads me to conclude we haven't got a clue what the future will bring. - Mark

FB will better integrate FF than Google or others ever would -- one hopes. let's see what happens and go from there. Good news is that it will generate a ton of news for you peeps to report on. - Gavin Adams

It's simply time for a distributed story for this type of application. You shouldn't need to rely on any providers who can be down or might be bought. - Christian Scholz

"Google Wave is coming to replace all this stuff." And lock you into yet another platform owned by one company. - Ian Betteridge

@Ian...Wave is a federated, decentralized, (to be) open-sourced solution. It's complicated, but it's at worst an architecture lock-in (ie, it might be hard to move a large corpus of Wave-annotated data out of the Wave infrastructure). Unless Google is pulling a flat-out lying fast one...there won't be any reason why you can't run your "own" instance of Wave and connect to the rest of the Net. So not standard company lock-in. - Ken Kennedy

Ken, to be honest, I'll believe it when I see companies other than Google taking the code and running an equivalent service. Flat out lying? No, probably not. But "only able to do something useful if you're connected to Google in some way"? Probably. - Ian Betteridge

@Ian, I hear ya, but I've read enough of the technical specs to lay my money on the other side of that bet. - Ken Kennedy

At least Google is one company that's not likely to turn coat on its social community and sell out. - jcunwired

Really? I think the old Jaiku community would disagree with you on that. And the people who stored their bookmarks in Google Bookmarks, too. - Ian Betteridge

why? - Thomas Power

Sorry - I meant Google Browser Sync rather than Google Bookmarks. One is dead, the other alive and well(ish). But the point is that Google has a track record of killing or abandoning services when it suits. - Ian Betteridge

True, Ian. Google's "do no evil" doesn't keep them from killing things that aren't panning out for their world domination strategy. They're marginally more saintly than Facebook. - Sean Gallagher

Is it because of the Facebook ad approach that Dave W and Scoble are looking to jump ship on FriendFeed? - Sean Gallagher

Sean: I'm not jumping ship. But I will follow early adopters wherever they go. - Robert Scoble

Or Google Notebook. Even given that and Jaiku, though, which did do a blow to my faith in Google, I would rather a Google-FriendFeed than a Facebook-FriendFeed. Mostly because I think they'd let it do its own thing rather than assimilate it. They left YouTube pretty well alone. Oh well. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

disagree with FF and LI nxt year bottled up inside Facebook this forces Google MS and Apple to get seriously social and start playing rather than just watching. Google-Twitter, Apple-Facebook versus Microsoft-Bing now that's a battle I want to (socially) watch with all you guys. Oh what fun. Can't wait. - Thomas Power

I'm not sure Facebook or FriendFeed are entities whose well-being I value so highly; users, I care about, and having FriendFeed developper work their magic, their talent and their stand for open standard to benefit 300M people sounds more important to me then having them spend more time tailoring the digerati's private network. I'm far for believing you can't improve FriendFeed, but I'd... more... - Bertil Hatt

@Bertil_Hatt: if there's one thing that FriendFeed isn't it's a private network. Facebook is the one who, on the other hand, operates like a "walled garden" or a private condo. - Miguel Caetano

Only if you believe the FF has a sustainable business model? - Gary Walter (gwalter)

FF is F'ed - Shivanand Velmurugan

Matt Cutts

Congrats to Paul, Bret, and the whole FriendFeed gang. But I hope you bring a big shot of openness into the Facebook ecosystem, because it doesn't feel that way right now.

August 10 - Comment - Like - Share

TheHenry, Misha, Eric Johnson and 128 other people liked this

Exactly. - EricaJoy

18 more comments

Very sad day I think. - Travis Koger

Congrats! - Daniel Brusilovsky

+100 Matt - Jorge Escobar

congrats indeed, but damn, this seems like it's going to be bad :( - acedanger

exactly - mike "glemak" dunn

NO Congrats or whatsoever "to Paul, Bret, and the whole FriendFeed gang. But I hope you bring a big shot of openness into the Facebook ecosystem, because it doesn't feel that way right now." Matt, dear! You Stole My Words! ROFL :)))) Just curious - is there anything more important than money? It seems NOT ROFLMAO - Lora Lufark

lots of truthiness in that statement. - Sushubh

I am sad. No congratulation at all. - bellegarde-webb

Besides being closed, Facebook has never adequately addressed serious privacy issues in its past. I strongly distrust them as a company and I'm sad to hear that they're gobbling up a service and a group of people I do trust. But if both services end up being elevated to FriendFeed's high standard then this will be a great day in hindsight. - Doug Beeferman

Well put doug, I feel same way: I trust FF, I dont trust FB. I'm skeptical this acquisition will change FB enough for me to trust it, but we'll see. - Evan Parker from Android

Facebook is a cult - Joe Dawson

Has anyone got an idea for a friendfeed alternative? - Ru Viljoen

Ru, I think Hellotxt.com might be a decent alternative to Friendfeed (it can also post to Friendfeed for you so you can keep your feed if you wish). I may start using it instead. Not sure. There's also identi.ca which claims to be adding more features for cross-posting. They use the Opensource Laconi.ca platform - PurpleZoe

thx for suggestions but looks like those are both exclusively microblogging platforms. - Ru Viljoen

no congrats, but I agree with the rest. - Kamilah Gill

Identi.ca is mostly a microblog (I hear cross-posting networks should be enabled soon), but Hellotxt.com is a lifestream (you can cross-post and etc across networks) I believe. Unfortunately it's slow at times. I'll miss Friendfeed if it gets sucked into the Facebook network, instead of remaining a stand-alone app. Not at all happy about the acquisition. - PurpleZoe

3 other possibilities: lifestream.fm, Socialthing.com and possibly Streamy.com - PurpleZoe

Now might be a good time for socialthing to exit private beta and enter public - Ru Viljoen

Agreed. - PurpleZoe

i80and

You know what I like about FriendFeed? It has a community that I just haven't really seen elsewhere. A real community; an intelligent, thinking, community; a community that will *fight* to protect itself. Viva FriendFeed!

August 11 from IM - Comment - Like - Share

Hassan Ibraheem liked this

Bwana ☠

"FF connected me with new friends that I would never have known. FB connects me with old friends I could have done without. :(" - jcunwired http://friendfeed.com/jcunwir...

August 10 - Comment - Like - Share

Ben, Mitchell Tsai, William Phillips and 147 other people liked this

Exactly - Shevonne

41 more comments

The best comment I've heard today! - Bonnie Foster

its actually quite easy to ignore someone you could have done without. *sigh* - Sidney

Wow. Some of you apparently live terrible lives, filled with terrible people you seem unable to avoid, with the possible exception of this one website, I feel terrible about that.Of course, it's also possible you've wildly overestimated the difference between the people you know here and the people who know you in real life. - Richard Lawler

Or it could be, you're wrong. - Bwana ☠

Nope, you're the ones who keep saying everyone you know and everything you do on facebook sucks. That must be terrible. - Richard Lawler

Yes Richard because clearly I can make friends from all over the world on my daily stroll through the park. Or not. - vijay

Richard: That there's a possible incompatibility between networks centered around personal relationships -- or at least people you've physically encountered -- and networks based largely on interests, seems pretty clear to me. - Christopher A Carr

Yes, it's confirmed. You're wrong. - Bwana ☠

bingo - Jim Goldstein

My life wouldn't be the same without vijay - Rodfather

If everyone you've physically encountered sucks, the problem just might be you. - Richard Lawler

Hear, hear. This news sucks. - Adi

Oh Lord....not this guy :) - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Richard: I suppose there's nothing stopping you from deleting your ff account now and heading on over to Facebook full-time. - Christopher A Carr

I like this post, but I love all my social networks equally lol. - Ryan Peach

Luckily, unlike so many here, I can keep using any website I want the same way I did before without devolving into a baseless bitchfest about what might happen someday somewhere. Or, I could have kneejerk reaction based on irrational fear. hmmm - Richard Lawler

And you're very good at keeping your assumptions to yourself - Bwana ☠

Richard: Were friendfeed to say that it's going to survive, or at least that FB will have a more open, public facing side to it as a result of the acquisition, then I think the bitching would subside. As it stands, there's not much reason to think that anything of friendfeed will survive. If Facebook perfectly met everyone's needs, there would be no friendfeed. - Christopher A Carr

On the bright side, I can have a kneejerk reaction on FB and remove baseless bitches from my friends list. :) - jcunwired

Except, they haven't really said anything. So thinking anything will or won't survive is premature. If Facebook perfectly met everyone's expectations there would be no need for war, sickness or evil deeds. Every online community is the same as every other one, if friendfeed, for whatever reason, doesn't keep doing what you want ti to do, you'll use something else. It hasn't ever been perfect and it never will be. - Richard Lawler

I told you Richard. You're wrong. "Taylor and Cox say that the Friendfeed product will live on independently, and eventually Friendfeed will be merged into Facebook. But the Friendfeed team is not being kept whole. Some employees will now report to Cox, others to engineering head Mike Schroepfer. In my opinion that means, long term, the Friendfeed product itself is unlikely to be a big priority." http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Bwana ☠

Well, you told me what techcrunch's opinion is, because that's what I wanted to know. Thanks! (there's sarcasm there) - Richard Lawler

Ok let me slow it down for you. The team is splitting. The product is going to merge with Facebook. (No sarcasm) - Bwana ☠

Richard: "Every online community is the same as every other one..." That's nonsense. - Christopher A Carr

I can wholly identify with JC's statement. - JA Castillo

Wow Bwana...you are really bitchy in this thread...I think Richard is making some good points. If you are having issues with the people you 'accept' on Facebook there really is only one person who you can point the finger. You. Facebook makes it quite easy to NOT get involved with any person. - Sidney

Thanks. Appreciate the feedback. - Bwana ☠

I accept friends in Facebook because if they took the time to want to be friends with me, I feel obligated. I'm also not one to hurt a person's feelings by turning them down. That's what its like in a closed community like Facebook. Friendfeed is totally open - I can read, share, participate and like without having any obligation whatsoever to the people I interact with. - jcunwired

Sidney - Refusing to see that there is a clear difference between the people and the atmosphere of Facebookers and Friendfeeders is either foolishness or stubbornness. There is a world in facebook, full of garbage, that people think is "ok" because it evolved from other crap. - Matthew DeVries

Same here. Wisely said! - Nia

You are probably right. I am checking things out only now - AbZ from Nambu

There is the matter of censorship too. You really have to post some very illegal crap before FF will step in a mod it. Facebook bounces you for saying breastfeeding. - Matthew DeVries

I couldn't have put it better myself. Just got back and saw the news. Still digesting it. - Charlie Anzman

Well said guys! - Susan Beebe

Actually, I love most of my Facebook friends, or I wouldn't have (re)connected. But FF is a different community. - Glen Campbell, esq.

Dont twitter groups achieve a similar effect? - AbZ from Nambu

I like Facebook friends, I don't like that think it's ok to kidnap me, poke me, or ask me what Fantana girl I'm most like. I don't like that they think I'm the misanthropic curmudgeon with the problem when I ask them not to "It's what Facebook is for" - Matthew DeVries

LOL - Thomas Power

It's interesting to see ho people use different networking sites - for example - I use FB for personal connections and family and the rest are business related. - Graham Bunting

I like my friends, but you are definently right. I just got on friendfeed any advice on making friends? - Ryan Peach

Smart! - Martha

Great insight! - William Phillips

AJ Batac

List your FriendFeed alternative here:

August 10 - Comment - Like - Share

Mehmet Aydin, Ronald, JSLeFanu and 76 other people liked this

*blink...blink* - Josh Haley

81 more comments

Google Reader - andy brudtkuhl

Facebook LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Akiva Moskovitz

There is none. - Kol Tregaskes

Chi.mp http://chi.mp - AJ Batac

SocialMedian and Strands - Admiral Anika

Bonfires - Rodfather

There's an alternative? That's the problem...today's announcement threatens something that most of us have found to be without equal. - Scott of Two Countries

Facebook and twitter. But they don't add up to what Friendfeed is. - Mathew™ one of a kind

There really isn't one. Maybe Google in a year or so. Google account with Voice, Wave, Reader, GTalk better integrated. - LogEx

Likaholix http://likaholix.com - AJ Batac

Google Reader and Facebook have been absorbing Friendfeed features slowly but steadily all along. In 15 years someone will dig up some old screenshots and say "remember all those? heh, yah, things sure have changed, huh?" - Jason Wehmhoener

I dunno. Tumblr, maybe? Metafilter? Chi.mp? Likaholix? *shrugs* - Steven Perez

Like Scott said, that's the problem. There *is* no good alternative. FF has been the closest thing I've ever found for using the internet the way I want to. - Kamilah Gill

LifeStream.fm http://lifestream.fm - AJ Batac

Google, as it continues to socialize its environment. Also, don't forget about the next big thing we haven't seen or thought about yet. Someone will innovate another service that blows everything else away (like FriendFeed does now). - Larry Hawes

Posterous + Twitter???? - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

I may just have to try something desperate... like real-life interaction. I know! It's such a desperate move! :'( - Ladybug Heather

I think, considering the amazing accumulation of skilled people here, we should consider building one, not migrating. - Neal Jansons

Blellow? - andy brudtkuhl

Good idea..... - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

Google Wave, right? - Nathan Chase

NoseRub - Ken Sheppardson

Meemi.com - catepol from iPhone

<Placeholder> - Bwana ☠

Besides Google Wave, I don't think anything anyone is naming would be even close to the same. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

FaceFeed? - Kevin J Hatton

FriendBook? - Kevin J Hatton

http://www.soup.io/ - Philip Bussmann

IRC - Uncle CW™

What Nate said...Google Wave.....it is coming!!!!!! - Kevin J Hatton

Still trying to figure that out - Johnny

4chan? - Uncle CW™

Google reader with future wave integration. - Eric Logan

SweetCron http://sweetcron.com - AJ Batac

ICQ - Jacque

Good shout, Nathan! Yes Google Wave. - Kol Tregaskes

Jaiku - It can import feeds. It has threaded conversations. - Morton Fox

Redux.com? Mostly for entertainment though - Wang Yip

jaiku is the closest thing - feed import, rooms, conversations etc... - don't see how wave can work like friendfeed without a lot of add-ons / hacking - Adrian

jaiku's been neglected by google. I've been a member for 2 years and yes, nothing has changed. - AJ Batac

Closest thing is Google Reader. - Uncle CW™

the closest thing to FF that I know about is the blogoscoped Forums !! - Peter Dawson

jeffisageek.net and jeffisageek on twitter - (jeff)isageek

LIttle early, don't you think? - Jason Huebel

When did Noah build the ark? Before the rain, not after it. - Steven Perez

Twitter, but it's not nearly as cool as FF. :( - Kevin Winn

Drum circle - Rodfather

Friendface http://bit.ly/1LWw - Dobromir Hadzhiev

NONE EXIST! I LOVE FRIENDFEED! - Zachary TG

http://chaz2b.mp - chaz2b

Useful list:) - Ozgur Uckan

I've decided to taste some soup. - Kenton

Bowling league - Rodfather

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE there is NO freakin' replacement for FriendFeed. *cries* - Susan Beebe

WoW - Rodfather

Posterous - LouCypher

is Iminta.com still around? - Nathan Rein

Google Reader - Mike Reynolds

I think I'll go with AJ's choice above, the closest thing I know to FF is Lifestream.fm but didn't like it the last time I was on it. - Kol Tregaskes

I didn't even know Jaiku was still a going concern. - cheapsuits from iPhone

I've had an account with lifestream.fm for ages but I have not been there for about a year, time to go and have a look then - M F

google Wave - Furkan Tunalı

For you guys who says Google Wave, it's not yet available to the public so we can't use it. - AJ Batac

Lifestream.fm Looks really similar in terms of features, like Kol and AJ said. - Anton Tanderup

checked out lifestream... seems alright, I suppose... but not really the same. just what I"m doing. doesn't seem to be very "conversation" based. - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

I don't have one. :( - Christian (Simply X) from Android

I just found this one from Mark -> http://lifestreamblog.com/create - AJ Batac

Storytlr is another place to feed in all your different places. People can comment and things, but, how to see all your friends? I think you can add it to GReader. Here's mine: http://yolanda.storytlr.com/ - Yolanda

storytlr is a good one. - Nathan Rein

AJ: Google open-sourced Jaiku ... they really don't do anything besides host the code now. - Kevin Mohr

Kevin: Even when it wasn't open-sourced, it wasn't updated. - AJ Batac

I gotta second the Posterous/twitter pairing. - Big K

Friendster. And perhaps GooglyfaceFeed? :P - imabonehead

Unfortunately Jaiku hasn't gotten back the capability for importing feeds. And even in its best days its feed handling wasn't as good as FriendFeed's basic feed handling. This admission is saying something, since I've been such a Jaiku evangelist, until its problems got too big and destroyed the community there. I actually was kind of pissed off at FriendFeed when I first learned about... more... - Cheryl Jones

Until I get a Wave invite, I'm considering Google Reader (which has notes, tags, likes, follows) + Google Profile + Posterous (which duplicates FF's autoposting). - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

Considering rolling my own. PubSubHubbub is merely infrastructure; Wave isn't ready; Google Reader is more like digg/reddit, needs more ability to host its own content in addition to discussion; posterous and tumblr are really blogs, and are still kind of isolating; The real problem would be getting people to use a federated, distributed setup: there's a usability and consistency aspect to a having a single destination website where people can congreate; that, and I'm kind of lacking time. - Andy Bakun

+1 Andy. FriendFeed is a very unique amalgam of features, that once you come to appreciate them, are glaringly lacking on most other social platforms. Agreed that distributed would be a good idea to avoid the cost and control issues we have seen play out yesterday. Who knows, maybe Zuckerberg will surprise us all by making FF (by whatever name) an open building block in the FB ecosystem... more... - Alex Schleber

Here is a new development to possibly add to the list: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Alex Schleber

Facebook, Twitter, Google Reader and Digg - Joe Dawson

There's no fuckin alternative :(((( - FFTornado

http://enjoy.sthin.gs or whatever its name is written? I'll try it out, just signed up - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

NoseRub, see Identoo: https://identoo.com/koltreg... - Kol Tregaskes

DGentry

Re: Stabbed in the back by FriendFeed - http://farner.in/blog...

August 11 from Disqus - Comment - Like - Share

Marcos Marado, i80and, ovigia and 3 other people liked this

"The thing I'm disappointed about? They let the news break in TechCrunch. Scoble or Louis Gray could have at least gotten a traffic spike with even a little advance notice, but they apparently learned about it from TechCrunch." - DGentry

does anyone tried identoo? - ovigia

I'm planing to test it along with every other "potential alternative" in http://www.fftogo.com/e... - Marcos Marado from fftogo

open source & free software news

You Deleted Your Cookies? Think Again (Wired) - http://lwn.net/Article...

August 11 from LWN.net - Comment - Like - Share

Hassan Ibraheem liked this

Mathew™ one of a kind to Mathew™'s feed, FriendFeed Feedback

3 Reasons Why the Facebook Acquisition of Friendfeed Sucks - http://mathewballard.com/blog...

August 11 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Hassan Ibraheem, Chris, Taskerrific Guy, Ladybug Heather and 2 other people liked this

Today Facebook announced that it bought Friendfeed for $50 million. For this Friendfeeder it is a very very sad day and I’m just going to go ahead and jump right into my five reasons why this acquisition sucks. - Mathew™ one of a kind from Bookmarklet

haha, nice - acedanger