Hassan Ibraheem › Likes

Bret Taylor
John Resig - JavaScript Performance Rundown - http://ejohn.org/blog...
John Resig - JavaScript Performance Rundown
John Resig - JavaScript Performance Rundown
Interestig to see how adding DOM operations evens out John's benchmarks (first has DOM ops and Safari beats Chrome, second is Google's apparently slightly biased benchmark, which relies heavily on recursion). - Bret Taylor from Bookmarklet
Just Firefox - Saman
It is time to optimize for DOM. Faster JavaScript is fantastic..... great for games and crypto.... but what about the real world? NOTE: Ray Cromwell's Chronoscope benchmark http://timepedia.blogspot.com/2008... - Dion Almaer
和我昨天的判断一样 - foxmachia {山石} from fftogo
yeah i made the point on DOM to the V8 team http://tinyurl.com/65clg2 - never got back to me on that one say maybe some truth to it :) - Steven Livingstone-Pérez from twhirl
These tests are very insightful. I was initially very excited about Chrome being 10 times faster on javascript. As usual with any such claims (not just from Google), they are skewed. However, I do think that Chrome entering the market will cause all browsers to get better more rapidly. Competition does drive innovation. - Robert Felty
Thanks for sharing this detailed knowledge. Very useful. - Edwin Khodabakchian
we're working on DOM work now. believe that the tracing technique has applications; working on getting the DOM acting faster soon. - John Lilly
granted all beta-quality of Chrome and zero-day securiity bug, i think their current *speed* shows only lack of exception handling. Once it matures, it will be same or evenn worse than FF - it is tough to beat long-standing code without rounding corners on usual code glue... - A. T.
Louis Gray
Ga Ga Google Twins
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These and more were in an e-mail I got from my wife the second I got in to work. Too much fun! - Louis Gray
Your poor kids...when they grow up and find out how you sold them out they might exact revenge! Or they'll just be the coolest kids ever. - Josh Haley
totally renaming you Louis Gray, Mommyblogger. lol - Erin @queenofspain
Cute kids. - DB, Lil LB's Dad
Should be default Google Image result when searching for "twins" :) - Mark Krynsky
@Erin, that would be awesome. :-) - Louis Gray
@Louis, is your wife aware of this? http://friendfeed.com/e... - Mark Krynsky
That is cute, love the hats! - Sally Church
Yes, but do you have the LouisGray.com onesies??? - http://jessestay.smugmug.com/gallery... - Jesse Stay
Haha Nice Photos - To Google Forever hah. - Raymond Marr aka Knatchwa
most adorable SERPs ever! - sean percival
@Mark, she certainly has seen it now! Thanks a lot. :-) - Louis Gray
awesome * 2 ! - Mattb4rd
Is that the latest from Google Labs?? Babies delivered by email? Great no more morning sickness, and mood swings! I'm sure it's still in beta... - Daan
+1 Daan - dgw from fftogo
The expression on Matthew's face in the 3rd pic! (At least, I *think* that's Matthew.) - Yolanda
=D - David Cook
These twin-geeks have played all web yet.:) - Igor Poltavskiy
My favorite baby geeks! - Daynah
hey these cuties showed up again! :) - Susan Beebe
ha! love it! - Marco(aureliusmaximus)
These are architected to resurface every three weeks. It's a feature, not a bug. - Louis Gray
babypimping.com - the way to beat the economy slowing! HAAH - Allen Stern
with kids this cute you know louis is "Feeling Lucky" ohhhhhhh bad joke alert! - sean percival
got to be the cutest babies i have ever seen. id love a hat and all-in-one like that :D - ♥ Stephiepooos ♥
So should I get a third outfit or make the newbie wear hand me downs? - Louis Gray
If I were the newb, I'd be all over the hmds! - MiniMage
Michael Fidler
These are all done in Pencil.
Tiger in  Pencil.jpg
Bear in Pencil.jpg
Lion in Pencil.jpg
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Impressive - M F
Great work! - Neya
I'm sorry but this is unbelievable:) I'll give credit to the artist upon more convincing proof! The photogenic look of the tiger and lion really helps the artist's case though:) - Roney Smith
I'm with Roney... I find this hard to believe... or maybe I'm just jealous that I can't even get stick people right! - Jasmin Smith
I don't believe it. Too amazing. - Rahsheen
I'm with Rah - Shey
Only the lion looks like its drawn - embee
The bear and rhino look drawn, too. - Chris Charabaruk
very very talented. Wow they look like B&W pics you know photography. - Gabriella Sannino
These are amazing, were they done by you? - Angelo Rodrigues
Nice photographs - Rafael Robayna
@michael, if they weren't drawn by you, at least tell us who the artist is and the link - Zulkarnain K.
Link please? - Jason Wehmhoener
wow - Carolyn Chan
being slightly skeptical, i'm going to say these were done with pencil by a printer of some sorts... #justsayin - No Name
they're beautiful, but skeptical as well - Jennifer Van Grove
Would need to see higher quality images to see if they are pencil or not - too many jpg artifacts to tell. - Luke Addison from twhirl
Stupefied. - Parth Awasthi
Wow!! Yeah it's pretty amazing what they can draw with a pencil nowadays, deviantART has lots of great pencil art. - Kol Tregaskes
Michael, who is the artist? - Kol Tregaskes
wow, cool! - Sarah Perez
I'm really happy everyone liked these. They're my most liked entry to date, Thanks! There also seems to be some question about whether these are actually Pencil Drawings.I can assure you that they are.When I get home, I should have the links. I have more drawings, too. - Michael Fidler from fftogo
Wow, these are stunning!! - Susan Beebe
Yes, especially the tiger. Reminds me of that "Tiger, tiger burning bright." - Melanie Reed
Alright, Mike - I believe you. These are awesome. Good job! - No Name
HOLY CRAP. - Chieze Okoye
no way! - Mister Groonk
Thanks Enrique, I'll post some more soon. They are a little more obvious than these ones. As Luke points out; without being able to look closely it's impossible to tell. He's right; but up close it's more obvious. I'll upload the originals to Picasa later, and then you'll be able to zoom in with any photo viewer and see for yourselves. I can't believe how many people liked these. A few people have reposted them already. Thanks! - Michael Fidler
Absolutely awesome, Michael. You are extremely talented. Everyone should repost these pix and help to make you famous. You should be doing this full time - you obviously have some passion for this. Bravo. - Chris Loft
These are really beautiful, Michael. Do you sell them? - Shannon Jiménez
Chris, I would love to say they're mine, but it's not true. I've had them for a while, but I'll find the artists names. It will just require a little backtracking. Besides, they deserve the credit; all I did was find them:-) - Michael Fidler
Cut the bullshit! :) Photos are very good. - Burçak Çubukçu
I draw alot in pencil, but they are amazing, the best for me is the girl, that is the most photo-like one. :o) - Rob Sellen :o)
I agree Rob, the girl is amazing. My favorite by far! Wait until you see it close up! It's really had to tell, even up close! - Michael Fidler
Burçak Çubukçu If these were photographs, they would be very good. As Pencil Drawings,(which they are), they're amazing. - Michael Fidler
Wow, amazingly realistic - Threepwood
@Michael Fidler did you draw them? How can you so sure? - Burçak Çubukçu
dont look like it - Prakash
@ Michael Fidler don't push so hard :) - Burçak Çubukçu
@Burçak Çubukçu I can't tell if your serious now or just kidding around. I hope your just having fun! If you are serious, I've never given you a reason to question my integrity, nor do I ever intend to. However, the second set is up now, so judge them for yourself, but don't judge me! http://ff.im/1BJh5 BTW, I messed up and reposted the shot of the women again. Oh well. Hope you like them:-) - Michael Fidler
@Michael: try deviantART, not Picasa, to submit your artworks - Zulkarnain K.
WOW "I can't believe it's in pencil" - sofarsoShawn
LouCypher, I know it well, but I don't see why I would want to do that. I hope everyone knows by now that they're not mine? I'm sorry, but I can't say it any clearer than that. - Michael Fidler
nah, i don't believe it is done in pencil. i am sure it is photoshopped :) - hasin hayder
These would be great even for photos. - Ronald S
i'm not able to comprehend - Varun Shenoy
I'm finding this both interesting and humorous at the same time. There's a separate message board where this post is being discussed and it has another forty comments on it already. I think its great how this has created some lively discussion, considering that when I posted this I was doubtful if anyone would even like it. When I went to sleep last night there was only had 3 or 4 likes... more... - Michael Fidler
Very interesting. I would like to see them up close and in person...just to make sure. Bill said it's real and possible. Your 2nd set of picts look like pencil. Nice work in finding these! - LaFern Cusack
Kol, I can't thank you enough! Kol found another post which helps to prove that these are done in pencil. I had my doubts about a few of them because I collected them from several different sites over time, but the site Kol found has done a great job pulling together an impressive collection of these drawings and more. Take a look - http://www.flickzzz.com/2009... - Michael Fidler
Actually there are more than what this site shows. There's an entire set with the cats(little cats), which I have, and there's a new portrait set. - Michael Fidler
Found your post here, Michael. :-) I tried my best to find the artists. - Kol Tregaskes
Amazing and very very very good.... Very impressive ... - Linda Zeek-Bobinski
fake. http://lenscratch.blogspot.com/2009... Even if your not claiming to be the artist, these are photographs, well except the woman, thats pencil - james foor
Yeah we know, thanks though, James. :-) - Kol Tregaskes
Excellent pictures - how long did it take you to scan the photographs into Photoshop and then edit them? The only pencil that has come into contact with these "drawings" is the Photoshop pencil. A tip - stop trying to fool people into thinking you are a "real" artist, because all you are doing is cheapening proper artist's works whom have spent hours creating real pictures as opposed to a few minutes on a graphics editing package. - The Wimp
A bell does ring here. And I am remembering why I was so attracted to the tiger...and the lion for that matter. These are exact replicas of prints I had in our bedroom when I lived in Dallas. I had bought the prints (in color) at a department store, - Melanie Reed
Actually, I have learned quite a bit about these drawing since I made this post. Not only have I discovered all of the artists, but I've learned more about how they are created. They are always copied from a photograph or painting, but usually a photograph. It is extremely time consuming and detail orientated work. There are many other artists besides the ones featured here who practice... more... - Michael Fidler
Most of them have portfolio's on deviantart.com and their work is truly amazing even if they are copies of other artists work. I suppose with this level of detail, they have to start with something. Nevertheless, I'm still in awe of their talent. Melanie, the animal prints you refer to are from a very well renowned photographer. The originals are B&W I'll look it up later but I do have... more... - Michael Fidler
wow; they're unbelieavably beautiful. - liladreams
Has anyone ever corrected the record and pointed out, with the exception of the Charlize Theron drawing, that these are indeed photos by Alexander Von Reiswitz? - erik weisz
Erik, thank you for bringing this up again, but I think I already mentioned something about this in my prior comment. However, since it appears that you only signed up to friendfeed to leave a single comment, (ok, why?) I will try to summarize what I wrote previously. In brief, I learned after doing a little research that all photo-realistic drawings like the ones that I shared here,... more... - Michael Fidler
Awesome - الکامپ
I can assure you that what are claimed to be drawings of animals, in your post here, are photos. I used a website to that allows you to do an comparison of the Von Reiswitz photos and the images you have posted here. There are no differences. Every hair matches up. As a pencil artist myself I can tell you that it's pretty much impossible to get that kind of accuracy and have it look... more... - erik weisz
but... it has to be real, i saw it on the internet - Iphigenie
Eric, it doesn't matter to me if you just joined, and I apologize if I made you think otherwise. If you have any questions regarding friendfeed, please feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them. At this point, I would be happy if we could find someone who is an image analysis expert, and finally point this thing to rest. Every time that I look into this, all I find is a... more... - Michael Fidler
the site spammed above must all be done in pencil too, right, thats why you posted it? - Iphigenie
I'm amazed that people are still posting these photographs of animals and calling them pencil drawings. This is at least the third case I can remember (and there are probably more) of this happening. The myth about them being drawings was debunked long ago. It's also funny that whenever they get posted the person posting them doesn't make it clear that they aren't the artist, exactly as you have done. - canadianmaple09
@canadianmaple09 I posted these back in March, 2009 when I was beginning to use FF regularly. I ran them through TinEye hoping to find their source, but it returned no results. When I ran through again yesterday, TinEye returned over four pages of results. If I had it to do over again, would I? Yes - Michael Fidler
The people you refer do don't join "just to slam" someone, they are concerned members of the online art community that want to see real art appreciated and fake art or photos being passed off as drawings revealed for what they really are. Artists such as Brian Duey, Armin Mersmann, Paul Lung, Zindy Nielsen,and many others do not receive the appreciation they deserve because of scams like this. - canadianmaple09
canadianmaple09, the worthiness of your motives notwithstanding (and they are worthy, definitely) you could definitely have approached Michael completely differently by say, giving him the benefit of the doubt rather than attacking in a highly accusatory tone. - Chieze Okoye
When you've seen these same pictures posted multiple times by people that just find them on the internet and claim they are pencil drawings, when it has already been established on multiple occasions that they are not, the "benefit of the doubt" approach seems a little too generous. People post these images and claim they're drawings to get views for their own site or blog or page or whatever it is they post it on. It's wrong and it needs to be stopped. - canadianmaple09
I can understand that, but you should also keep in mind that everyone is not as well-versed in the issue as you are. All I'm saying is that you would probably be more effective in this case if you weren't setting this up as a us-vs.-them, "must destroy with the validity my argument!" attitude when talking to a guy who's been actively having a discussion on the issue in what seems to me (having been around when he first posted the images and the follow up thread and what not) to be good faith. - Chieze Okoye
Look at his first comment here. People clearly thought he drew them. He doesn't set the record straight. He also claims that they "are actually pencil drawings" and that "I have more drawings too." Later he claims that you need to look at them closer to see they are drawings and that he will "post the originals". Once again, this makes it sound like they are his. This follows the same... more... - canadianmaple09
Greg and Chieze, thanks for your support. I really appreciate it. @canadianmaoles09, for what it’s worth, I share your concerns about giving proper attribution when sharing also. However, I admit that I'm more conscious of it now than I was at the time of this post. Nevertheless, I have never taken credit for anybody's work here other than my own! - Michael Fidler
BTW, I didn't realize it before, but I just noticed that you're new here too. I hope you like it so far and spend more time here. IMO, friendfeed is still the best thing around! - Michael Fidler
I would probably qualify as an image analysis expert, but there's no way to prove that online. One thing we can do is look at color. Even though the images are black and white,they're actually RGB images, meaning they contain cyan magenta and yellow. If you look at the image of the rhino you have posted then look at the photo of the rhino at the photographer's site you can see they both... more... - erik weisz
Evan Prodromou
It would make a lot of sense to use Laconica as a base for this software and build the Friendfeed-like functionality as plugins. I think it could be pretty awesome.
Laconica has 85% of the needed functionality. Big additional code would be feed-scraping and clustering feeds for accounts. Building from the ground up is a big waste of time and effort. Also, as the Laconica creator and lead dev, I can commit to providing resources to make this project work. - Evan Prodromou
Oh, also: why do you hate Laconica? Good information to have! - Evan Prodromou
Evan, how had you imagined building "plugins" for Laconia? Do you simply mean putting the "load" on the client? Indeed, a laconica and or Twitter client could add lots on top of the respective notification services to provide a FriendFeed-like experience. http://a.tinythread.com/ is a good example of this IMO. The threaded comments there look pretty friendfeed-ish imo. - Meryn Stol
Laconica has a server-side plugin architecture already. 3rd-party code can "hook" important events in the main code and enhance or replace the default processing for those events, firing either before or after the events occur. There are hookpoints in the code for UI events (showing the header, showing the sidebar, etc.) database and domain object events (saving a new status, saving a... more... - Evan Prodromou
@Matthew Devries, no, it's not! You need to look a little closer. - Evan Prodromou
Evan, I do not have any experience with Laconica. Does it already support threaded conversations? That would be a start. - Meryn Stol
@Meryn also, you may want to check out our threaded conversation pages like http://identi.ca/convers... . It's hierarchical, not flat like FF's, and it's based off the same @-reply mechanism that Twitter uses. But it could be customized to work more like Jaiku or Friendfeed (where comments are distinct from other notices.) - Evan Prodromou
Laconica as a base need serious consideration, imho. - Micah
@evan, while I've got you 'on the line', I'd sure appreciate any feedback on my userscript for language translation - I'm close to finishing an adaptation for identi.ca, but at the moment you can test out the twitter port: http://translatorize.com/ Thanks! - http://identi.ca/micah - Micah
Matthew DeVries, no, SMS is not the core of the service. That would be crack-addled. - Evan Prodromou
Matthew DeVries: w/r/t 10K of text: not sure I understand what you mean. 10K for each notice? 10K total? What point are you trying to make? - Evan Prodromou
Sure seems like there is overlap between laconica and openff goals. Plugins could be a great way to fill any laconica gaps towards a Friendfeed like feature set - Jason Wehmhoener from iPhone
The Twitter ecosystem is showing sure signs of producing equal capabilities as FriendFeed (except for update speed - that's limited by the speed of the Twitter API), so I think that will eventually happen to Laconica too. If not, then I see not much future for Laconia anyway. Social media will not stop at 140 char microblogging. The future for Twitter - if any - is being a hub in something much bigger, something even more advanced than FriendFeed. - Meryn Stol
At the moment, I have big doubts though if even Twitter will survive. Other ways to do push notification (e.g. pubsubhubbub) pose a big threat. I'm talking long-term of course. But that doesn't make either Laconica or Twitter seem attractive for me as a developer to put time in. I'd rather invest in technologies which seem to have a bright future ahead. - Meryn Stol
@Matthew Devries, 0.8.x versions and below limited to 140 chars/notice. 0.9.x and above will support variable-length notices, from 1 to unlimited. We'll use truncation to deal with channels (like Twitter or SMS) that are space-constrained. - Evan Prodromou
Interesting idea, Evan Prodromou. Does Laconi.ca support real time through the web interface? - Vezquex
@Raphael yes it does. We support three different real-time update servers: Cometd (using Bayeux), Orbited, and Meteor. We'll probably have a Strophe-based XMPP update at some point in the near future. BTW, that's all implemented with plugins. - Evan Prodromou
@Meryn Laconica supports a distributed protocol, OpenMicroBlogging, for a federated approach. We also have plugins in progress for RSSCloud, PubSubHubBub, XMPP PubSub, and FETHR. - Evan Prodromou
You may have something here. I'll take a look at the documentation. - Vezquex
Great info. Thanks for dropping by, Evan! - Kevin L
I think comments as separate from notices is a big difference. Does Laconica do groups or lists? - Kevin L
Evan: What I mean is that anything evolved out of microblogging probably won't matter much for the future of the web and social media. I think the future belongs to completely standardized hubs, using the pubsubhubbub protocol or a protocol yet to be invented. I simply don't think microblogging will survive as a core technology. I think it will prove too limited by its past. - Meryn Stol
yes, Laconica does groups. It also has lists. - Evan Prodromou
Meryn, the "micro" part is a gimmick. Once you lift the character limit, there should be no problem. - Vezquex
I don't see much reasons to have laconia hubs when there are "standardized" hubs, willing to route around anything inside an Atom feed. Why register for a particular when people can get push updates from across the web? All a user has to do in the future is produce an atom feed. The hubs will be invisible to the user. They only see their app, a kind of Wordpress or something. - Meryn Stol
BTW This is one of the reasons why I also probably won't be contributing to the OpenFF server clone. I don't think it has much future. I think we can already see the end of the road for centralized services. I still am interested in writing a client which can talk to all different (either centralized or federated) services out there... From a user's standpoint, broad compatibility with existing networks is a big plus. - Meryn Stol
Matthew, huh? I think the first goal is to build something very much technological the same as FriendFeed. Federation is the next step. But peer to peer is not even on the agenda (at least for the openff project as I know it). And as I said, I don't particularly like that roadmap. It does not really excite me. - Meryn Stol
I kindly invite everyone who want to think on more broad terms about "feed technology" to join http://friendfeed.com/feedtech :) - Meryn Stol
Evan, I learned some interesting things about laconica from this thread and will be taking a closer look - Jason Wehmhoener
As this is a community open federated project I suggest to use open source Jaikuengine with pubsubhubbub running on Google Appengine. Reasons: Dealing with scalability(twitter has Big DDOS issues) Google infrastructure is the best, Real time push and pull based on pubsubhubbub (community hub is available). Jaiku threaded conversation is cool.It has Channels too. Regarding Macro (not... more... - Srini Vemula
You don't need to adapt laconica to that when NoseRub is so much close to what Friendfeed is. Actually, there are only a couple of features left in NoseRub to be a friendfeed clone (feature-wise, not presentation-wise). A running service using NoseRub is Identoo.com (Identoo is to NoseRub what identica is to laconica) - Marcos Marado
Marcos, does Noserub have some kind of plugin and/or theme architecture so that changes to Noserub can be made without coordinating those changes with the core Noserub development team? I ask because when I look at indentoo.com it doesn't look/work much like Friendfeed, so it's possible the Noserub team has different goals. However, if Noserub supports plugins and/or themes it's possible that different goals can be supported without any issue. - Jason Wehmhoener
If somebody wants to build plug-ins for Laconi.ca that make it more FriendFeed-like, or join the NoseRub project and add more FriendFeed-like functionality to that system, or just work on other projects that connect FriendFeed proper with Laconi.ca with NoseRub instances, I say more power to them. My impression to date has been that all that's distinct from the OpenFF effort, the intent of which is to build an OSS "clone" of FriendFeed as a new and separate project and code base. - Ken Sheppardson
BTW, I've spun this off into the Feed Tech group as http://friendfeed.com/feedtec... - Ken Sheppardson
Matthew: The kind of distributed messaging that would be ideal for OpenFF is exactly what OpenMicroBlogging (now OStatus) provides. Users on different domains may subscribe and reply and each other, even on entirely separate server instances. - Mike Chelen
Evan: Where are lists in StatusNet/Laconica? Never seen how they can be used. - Mike Chelen
Can't wait for it to be implemented! Great to see so much progress has been made already, thanks :) - Mike Chelen
Marcos Marado
Just married!
Just married! - Marcos Marado from tarpipe
Congratulations ;) - Nuno Miguel Correia
Parabéns! - Bruno Miguel
Congratulation!!!!! :) - directeur
Thanks - Marcos Marado from fftogo
parabens :) - Carlos Morgado
no way! Amazing! CONGRATULATIONS MARCOS! - Zee.
Congrats! - Anika
Mas ainda és um jovem! ;) Parabéns. - Luis Canau
Parabéns :) - Nuno Monteiro
Parabéns! Agora é que é tudo a sério. :-D - Ema Martins
Como dizia "o outro": Ai Jasus que está para acabar o mundo! - Carla Graça
é verdade, confirmo. "o outro" disse isso mesmo!... - Carlos Canau
Muitos Parabéns! - Jose Furtado
Thanks everyone :-) - Marcos Marado from fftogo
Parabéns Paula e Marcos. Muitas felicidades e sorte também! :D - Pedro Machado Santa
Parabéns! - Marco Neves
Parabéns, pombinhos :) - Armando Alves from twhirl
Parabéns!! - Bruno Miguel
It was a quick year to pass by. Today is time to celebrate! - Marcos Marado from fftogo
Make the most of it. :) - Carla Graça
congratulações! - Carlos Canau
Happy Anniversary! - Anika
Parabéns! - ovigia
Thanks guys :-) - Marcos Marado from fftogo
Parabéns atrasados... E Jasus!! O mundo não acabou ;-) - Susana Sousa
Paul Buchheit
Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)
Good point. - Robert Scoble
I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms. - Swaroop
yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it. - zio bodhisattva
Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho. - Matt M (inactive)
Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great. - Rodfather
Is that Steve Jobs disguised as Zio ? - Swaroop
@Swaroop Yes, we do. Like HTML5. - Benjamin Dobson
@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :) - zio bodhisattva
@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature - Swaroop
Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance. - Paul Buchheit
@Zio You're the real Steve Jobs - Swaroop
Microsoft moves much too slow to force new standards these days. - Louis Gray
@Louis: IE8 flunking ACID test :) - Swaroop
What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already. - Rodfather
h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is. - Paul Buchheit
I know some of the guys behind silverlight. It is some great technology. Too bad it's from Microsoft and is closed. - Joe Beda from iPhone
A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait. - Paul Grav
Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open. - Paul Buchheit
MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5. - Paul Grav
Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha! - .LAG liked that
Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code." - Guy Vander Heyden
.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability. - Robert Scoble
Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too). - Swaroop
Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java - Ed F from Nambu
Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open. - Rodfather
Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions. - Paul Buchheit
Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it? - .LAG liked that
Use HTML 5 instead! - Minh Bui
Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach? - Daniel Chow
But who prevents Google from taking over the net? - Andreas
youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube. - vijay
You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition - Marcos Marado
The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML.... more... - Paul Buchheit
@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth. - Joel Webber
There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript. - Steve Temple
Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to! - Marcos Marado from fftogo
because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential - Mike Chelen
@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :) - Ihar Mahaniok
Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based. - Willowdale
@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well? - ianf ⌘
I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video - Scott Radcliff
I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like. - ianf ⌘
to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well - Chris Hofmann
somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight) - Karim
If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser. - Jeff Weber
Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though. - Scott Radcliff from email
Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do. - Saad Kamal
not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon. - Darren Stuart
Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on... more... - Kaan Bingol
People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA. - Hayes Haugen
Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support? - Paul Buchheit
I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial. - Hayes Haugen
Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-) - Karim
Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution? - Hayes Haugen
i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-) - Karim
How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements. - Derek Wei
All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;) - Hayes Haugen
Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow. - Ray Cromwell
That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch. - Scott Radcliff from email
I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it. - Nick Lothian
Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT - Ray Cromwell
I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is... more... - Lindsay
Azure looks really cool. Hint: so did Blackbird. - Michael R. Bernstein
lol blackbird (scary redmond flashback) - a good example of azure platform utilization can be seen via jon udell's elmcity project - http://blog.jonudell.net/elmcity... - mike "glemak" dunn
Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript. - Sebastian Wain
It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better. - Victor Ganata
...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is... more... - .LAG liked that
Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes... more... - ianf ⌘
I like this post! - Mohammad Abdurraafay from iPhone
I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows. - Victor Ganata
ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh> - .LAG liked that
alternative to flash video such as ... html5 :) (requires ff3.5) http://www.dailymotion.com/openvid... - Mike Chelen from IM
that only covers video and audio... *sigh* - Ed F from IM
Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube - Mike Chelen
I know, and it seems I'm the only one who mentions Flash's other uses... :-/ - Ed F from IM
Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block - Mike Chelen
Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash. - Ed F
Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck. - LANjackal
But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p... - Victor Ganata
write them yourself then. until then, I'll stick with desktop apps or Flash equivalents - Ed F from IM
I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it. - Victor Ganata
Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it... more... - .LAG liked that
Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough - Mike Chelen
LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme... - Mike Chelen
Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree - Charlie Anzman
still haven't updated yet. Busy with something on Firefox - LANjackal from IM
What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game... more... - Gabe
Yeah the video spec for HTML5 is currently a disaster - LANjackal from IM
Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology? - Kari Honkanen
Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL. - Paul Buchheit
Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future... more... - Kari Honkanen
I agree that the future is neither open nor closed, but a mixture of the 2. Been preaching that for a while now, but then again there are the fanatics on either side who can't see anything other than a homogenous future - LANjackal from IM
I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues... more... - Ray Cromwell
Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.' - Cliff Gerrish
MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :) - Claudio Cicali
MSFT sucks Claudio :) - Orlando Pozo
@caludio: They've already done that, somewhat. Silverlight 4 Beta supports Chrome. However I'm pretty sure it's probably technically impractical to run another browser atop Chrome OS anyway - LANjackal from IM
Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me. - Karoli
If the concept of open source didn't allow for competitive business plans then quite a few companies that depend on it wouldn't exist. The "happy smiley" image most FOSS zealots promote isn't reflective of reality. There will always be competition, even among the free - LANjackal from IM
I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it). - Paul Buchheit
I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong). - Johnny
Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there. - Paul Buchheit
Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel. - Victor Ganata
@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway. - Nick Lothian
My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL. - Gabe
not rly, the defeat of Flash & SL depends on the rise of HTML5, which will b supported by multiple browsers. Unfortunately spec disagreements r holding that up. That's another advantage of closed systems : fewer cooks often makes the broth get done faster lol - LANjackal from IM
it is possible to have smaller groups for open source software, such as google's own gears api http://code.google.com/apis... - Mike Chelen
How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare. - Gabe
@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed? - Nick Lothian
HTML 5's not "missing" much in terms of its ambition. What it's missing is a consensus among its contributors. Flash and SL have gone through several iterations while HTML 5's been sitting there - LANjackal from IM
Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps. - Gabe
@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion). - Joel Webber
So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS? - Cliff Gerrish
No they won't, because it Silverlight already runs on Chrome as of Beta 4 - LANjackal from IM
Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me. - Gabe
@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff. - Nick Lothian
Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself. - Gabe
Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity. - Dan Douglass
Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser. - Dan Douglass
Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash. - Gabe
Anyone else think Joy is Spam? - Chris Myles
already reported it yesterday :) - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ from IM
friendfeedPoll user script - released - Report statistics on a friendfeed thread used as a poll / survey - http://userscripts.org/scripts...
Report statistics on a friendfeed thread used as a poll/survey. To customize possible answers (between 2 and 5 answers supported), in Configuration set answer1Array and answer2Array (and arrays 3 to 5 optionally). Each array can contain a single version of the answer word/phrase or multiple such as var answer1Array = ["Yes","Affirmative", "Absolutely"]; When viewing an individual post, the link Calculate Poll appears in the upper right corner of the page - click it to run or re-run a poll report. - Micah
The default configuration is: answer1Array = ['Yes','Yep','Yup']; and var answer2Array = ['No','Nope']; - Micah
Thanks, Haggis. - Micah
I was wracking my brain trying to figure what question would elicit the uniform responses of 'toothpaste', 'lemon' and 'orange'. Thanks for the link Micah! - Kevin Fox
Kevin, new theme names? *hint hint* :D - Micah from iPhone
Awesome. Glad my laziness may have spurred this. I just tested it and it worked great. Just a bit pesky having to set so many variables in the array for a poll like the one I created. - Mark Krynsky
Mark, you're absolutely spot on about the pesky nature of setting variables in the script itself. Creating a user interface for saving settings for user scripts like this is a pain (for one thing, can't use Greasemonkey data storage functions if I want straightforward compatibility with Safari/Greasekit). But the nature of this script may make it a bit easier than some because it's run... more... - Micah
Mark, regarding "spurred on" - you were the final straw :) - Micah
This is a wonderful idea, although why not make it simpler like just a simple survey system like what Google Docs uses. -- Like this one provided for the Themes Question -- http://friendfeed-media.com/8e11391... - Matt Ruiz
Matt, yeah, actually I participated in that one. A poll application naturally is better at the business conducting a poll. But, on a conversational system like ff, poll-like questions benefit from programmatic tallying only if they grow to a significant size. In many cases, a formal poll might not get much participation, but a casual question native to ff does. - Micah
would it be possible to have the results update automatically when a new comment is posted? great script, thanks! - Mike Chelen
also, is there an example topic where this script is in use? - Mike Chelen
Mike, this is a great example post to run the Calculate Poll script on: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Micah
friendfeedPoll [v0.1.1] released - Added auto-refresh of poll calculation upon comments being added (or deleted). Thanks for the suggestion, Mike :) - Micah
Micah, very nice! it is so cool to see the total change live - Mike Chelen
also found the topic from the screenshot :) http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Mike Chelen
Paul Buchheit
A practical scalable distributed B-tree - http://www.hpl.hp.com/techrep...
"Moreover, our algorithm is conceptually simple: we use transactions to manipulate B-tree nodes so that clients need not use complicated concurrency and locking protocols used in prior work. To execute these transactions quickly, we rely on three techniques: (1) We use optimistic concurrency control, so that B-tree nodes are not locked during transaction execution, only during commit. This well-known technique works well because B-trees have little contention on update. (2) We replicate inner nodes at clients. These replicas are lazy, and hence lightweight, and they are very helpful to re- duce client-server communication while traversing the B-tree. (3) We replicate version numbers of inner nodes across servers, so that clients can validate their transactions efficiently, without creating bottlenecks at the root node and other upper levels in the tree." - Paul Buchheit
Paul, I think many of us are going to trust your opinion on this white paper. All Greek to me. - Jon-Paul Bussoli
All I understand is that it is in my best interests to cheer for the way you access B-tree nodes in order to continue to enjoy friendfeed reliably. Go friendfeed algorithm go! - Jon-Paul Bussoli
What, no comparison to BigTable? - ⓞnor
@nor It's really not the same thing, unless somehow you're using a distributed B-tree on hash collision, however, if you're getting that many collisions, then the hash algorithm is probably wrong or your key width is too small. Then again, I really don't know what I'm talking about. - Eric Florenzano
Curious as to what problem Paul is looking at... My default data toolkit these days would probably include sqlite for in-memory data, sharded bdb's for btrees that are too big for memory, and hbase/hypertable for a distributed store. I wonder where this fits in... - DeWitt Clinton
Ok this is a really *nerdy* post! :*) - Susan Beebe
DeWitt, I just thought that it looked like an interesting paper. As for the several solutions you mention, I don't know that any of them have distributed transactions (maybe bdb, but that doesn't really work). - Paul Buchheit
B-Trees and Prof. Bayer http://wwwbayer.informatik.tu-... - would be interesting to know what he'd say, unfortunately he's retired a few years ago. Used to be fairly approachable in all matters B-Tree. - Mustafa K. Isik
@DeWitt - no room for a traditional SQL based database except as an in memory database? - Nick Lothian
we had designed and implemented distributed tree control, but transactions were considered "too much" for near-real-time, and they were already in protocol... the rest you know as xGSN boxes in GPRS/3G/HSDPA - dynamic routing for mobile packet networks. I'd left team in 2003... - A. T.
@paul - I'll readily admit to being out of my depth, but it depends on what the definition of "distribution transaction" is. With bdb a combination of local transactions and guaranteed consistent replication you can approximate a distributed transaction at the cost of speed. See http://www.oracle.com/technol... and http://www.oracle.com/technol.... But those won't work across bdb shards. - DeWitt Clinton
@paul - A table-based distributed store can do this via a lock on entity groups, where entity groups are defined by relationship formed by instances of similar models that belong to the same parent-based ancestry chain. This is how App Engine transactions work -- see http://code.google.com/appengi... and http://code.google.com/appengi.... Ping ryan for some background there. Not sure if hbase or hypertable support this via their api. - DeWitt Clinton
@nlothian - I dunno. Offline maybe? - DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt: have you ever successfully used BDB with millions of newly written entries and transaction support turned on? We kept getting transaction logs with millions of entries that were never consumed, so restarts would take hours as it replayed the logs. Configuring BDB to work for large databases is insanely esoteric to say the least, and it may be impossible to get it to work acceptably in some cases. - Bret Taylor
@bret -- no, definitely not with large databases. We used bdb's heavily at my last company, though. Aggressive sharding is the key if you want to support either transactions or replication, which matches intuition about how it is implemented. - DeWitt Clinton
But your comment about millions of entries makes me wonder about which data is getting written to which place. I suspect a lot of problems like this end up with the bulk of the data being written transactionless + replicated to a table-based store (or a transactionless bdb), and only a small subset of the data gets transaction support. So multiple datastores. But you guys know this better than I do, so why am I rambling? : ) - DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt, you can also look into all the trouble that Gaia had with bdb - I simply wouldn't trust any fancy bdb functionality. - Paul Buchheit
Also, AppEngine transactions are limited to a single "entity group", which I assume means a single BigTable tablet. Essentially, they solved distributed transactions by not having them -- all transactions must be local to a single tablet. From the docs: "Every entity belongs to an entity group, a set of one or more entities that can be manipulated in a single transaction. Entity group relationships tell App Engine to store several entities in the same part of the distributed network." - Paul Buchheit
@paul - yup, that's the trade-off. Entity groups ensure locality, locality makes transactions fast(er). Same old lever problem -- speed of consistency vs. scope of the transactions. - DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt, there's nothing wrong with having local transactions -- I'm just pointing out that they aren't distributed transactions. - Paul Buchheit
Point taken. I got way off-topic regarding your original post anyway. - DeWitt Clinton
The design seems reasonable. The only part that is under-specified is the way they switch from a master node to a slave. I'm curious why they don't use transactions to maintain replicas but instead rely on some unspecified master/slave replication scheme. - Private Sanjeev
OMG! you guys! I think something big has popped up. We got interest from Norway! NoseRub wants us to work with them! See this comment...
" Vijay: this is what I've got on Twitter (from Børge (@forteller) who is Open Source ambassador in Norway):"Could you please ask vijay (seems like he's the one behind "clonefeed") to rather help out NoseRub than reinvent the wheel? or at least make it compatible with NoseRub (through OMB) so that we can subscribe to each other no matter which of them we use" - so that is what I am doing :-) - Hanna Wiszniewska " - vijay
we need to contact Børge right away. He wants to talk. Where are the folks when you need 'em? :S - vijay
looks interesting. I never heard of them before but they seem interesting - Jacque
Ken Sheppardson was talking about them in this room yesterday. His post is in here somewhere. He can throw some light on this. - vijay
we need to have someone talk to him now Jason, and begin a relationship with them. Since we are both open and social services, I feel we can learn a lot from those guys. - vijay
Ken turned me on to them yesterday as well....i started watching their video and got pulled into a meeting...i did like the little i did see. will revisit this tonight. - Carlos Ayala
excellent. the more people we have who know about their service, the better we can identify where we can collaborate with them. thanks Carlos. - vijay
cool Jason. He's hardcore open source so Hanna tipped me he preferred Identica to twitter. If you use it, then it's better to get hold of him over there (his remark which Hanna posted actually came from his Identica). He's here -->- http://identi.ca/forteller - vijay
The broader point is that there are a number of efforts in this area, including NoseRub, DiSo, or to some extent Laconica and OMB. I realize everybody's initial reaction is "Hey, let's start a project to replace FriendFeed", but if you check out sourceforge, github, freshmeat, ohloh.net, you'll find hundreds of projects with one or two or ten people working on them that are almost identical to prior projects. - Ken Sheppardson
Jason, I will update him that you will be getting in touch with him. What's your identica ID? - vijay
Right now we've got 202 people interested in either using, evangalizing, or lending a hand with development. Perhaps the NoseRub or DiSo or other teams could "pitch" us on why we should support their effort... rather than heading off into the dark on our own. - Ken Sheppardson
Ken, this is friendfeed. People sub to anything and numbers don't count. I know people with over 1000 FF subs begging on their knees in their feeds for someone to comment in their posts. It's too early to be rash with the stats imo. - vijay
i really like the idea behind DiSo. From what I understand Chris Messina could really shed some light on this for us. http://friendfeed.com/diso http://diso-project.org/ - Carlos Ayala
Uh... ok... s/202/10/ Does that make a difference? Sorry... I just meant to point out there's a concentration of interest here, and maybe the folks who've been working on the problem for a while could use our collective help. - Ken Sheppardson
there's this too -->- " at least make it compatible with NoseRub (through OMB) so that we can subscribe to each other no matter which of them we use. " - vijay
Yeah, and the discussion RE whether OMB is the appropriate glue opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. Sigh. Now I remember why I burned out on this stuff... ;-) - Ken Sheppardson
Just a shoutout that i volunteer my database skills in an open-source FF clone! - anna sauce
you guys know more about this than I do, so you guys can work this out. My 2 cents is all these are open efforts and there is zero money in this for the foreseeable future. So the more people we have to help, the easier for us to move forward imo. Børge knows this and hence his invitation. - vijay
OMG OMG OMG!!!!!! (yeah I`m just checking out the wiki) - sofarsoShawn
Bravo guys Bravo. It's one hell of a project!!! - Dobromir Hadzhiev
Congrats! Things may start moving along faster now. - Simon Wicks
NoseRub++. I hope OpenFF will be based on NoseRub! - Marcos Marado
I doubt it will be, Marcos, as I think the plan is to develop in Python and my understanding is NoseRub is PHP using the CakePHP framework - Ken Sheppardson
Why to limit the OpenFF idea by its programing language? - Marcos Marado
The *idea* isn't limited, but the OpenFF logo/tag has come to refer to a specific project/team/implementation. For more general convo, btw, there's http://friendfeed.com/feedtech - Ken Sheppardson
Yes, I know. I was just thinking that it makes no sense to me to have time wasted in building everything from scratch when a NoseRub personalization might be enough to have a friendfeed clone... - Marcos Marado
I wonder if Drupal + the Activity Stream modules + the Facebook Connect module would be worth a try. Sure, Drupal doesn't really scale well in a distributed manner, but it does have an integrated search feature, and it's very modular and customisable... - Tyson Key
Good question, I haven't seen a federated search module, although I can't see why it wouldn't be possible. - Tyson Key
I've just discovered http://drupal.org/project..., Mark. - Tyson Key
("Allows search results from multiple drupal sites to be aggregated under the 'distributed search' tab" according to the blurb). - Tyson Key
Erhan Erdoğan
Stone vs iPhone
Can be used as paperweight ✓ ✓ - Nathaniel Payne
Bunun nokia 3310lusuda var :) - loran the 'amorfati'
I choose stone : ) Better handling : ) - Selim Yoruk
Better standby time, too. - Jordan Hofker
Personally I'm waiting for the iPebble... - Johnny
Smash a rock into pieces and you get more. Smash an iphone, well, there aren't Nanos coming out. - Jordan Hofker
@Ahmet Buleeeeeent yorum yaz - MugeCerman
John: I remembered the flintstones' infant daughter Pebbles Flintstone after your comment. She was using a phone like this Stone, wasn't she? : ) - Erhan Erdoğan
Which proves, people want less features, not more! LOL - Victor Ganata
Yeah, I'd rather have a stone than an iPhone. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Stones are also more theft deterrent. - Shawn Farner
Stone is cheaper - Morton Fox
bütün fuar gg oldu :) - Ömer Enis
Hey, there is a huge period of time that we now call the Stone Age. I doubt we will ever have an era named the iPhone Age. - Victor Ganata
Victor: Maybe Apple Age? - Erhan Erdoğan
Still: the Apple Age 1976-2008. The Stone Age 3 million BC-3000 BC. Steve Jobs ain't gonna be around *that* long (barring major innovations in life prolongation that I'm sure he'd be able to afford.) - Victor Ganata
When they came out they were hot ✓ ✓ - Benedikt Koehler
For most situations, I prefer the iPhone. I get really bad reception with my rock.. and it's hard to check my stocks and get directions to the pizza joint with it. But it works great as a makeshift mallet for pounding tent stakes when camping! My iPhone's a little to fragile for that. At least my iPhone can double as a flashlight in a pinch! - Jackson D. Carson
OK. I will downgrade to Stone. - Leon Ho
This is classic!! and I'm an iPhone fan!! - Bronwyn
:)) haha - Farzad
Worse is better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... ".. limited but exceptionally simple to use may be "better" than that is more comprehensive but harder to use ..." stone is better ;) - Turkey banned Bloggum :(
I'm sorry for this post, I wanna delete it now. :-) I had an iPhone gift and I'm very happy with my new Apple. She is really better than stone. http://friendfeed.com/e... :-) - Erhan Erdoğan
...because it has a touchscreen, right? O:-) - Marcos Marado
not touch..multi touch :) - Ömer Zahit Kara
Can knock you out when hit with it: ✓ X - Martha
Too funny! I have to leave a comment when I my laugh turns heads - Rick Bucich
I want to see stone 3.0 when it comes out. - Phil Boiarski
Stil choose the stone. Until someone buy me an iPhone. - İbrahim Uzun [ j ]
You can build a wall with a stone. - Martha
straight lulz. Wake the fuck up apple. OOOOOH COPY&PASTE COMING SOON!!! - LarchOye
How big (Kb) is a MMS message on average? - Johnny
I actually don't miss copy and paste. - Victor Ganata
Good question Johnny. Without an attachment, I think they're <5kb. After that, it depends on your attachment I guess! - Will Higgins™
An average MMS (according to Nokia) is 50KB. I pay 50c per MMS. Therefore I am paying 1c/KB or $10.24/MB or $10,485.76 per GB - Johnny
for mhmazidi - amirHP
This image should be updated!! Please tick MMS for iPhone 3G : ) - Erhan Erdogan (Eski)
Also one-way video call - Özkan Altuner
Rock solid build quality ✓ X - Sriks7
stone is not fragile, but iphone is. so better to use a stone. - elodeon
CloneFeed Naming voting going on. Please weigh in here -->- http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll... RESHARE! get this post to your feeds so more folks can vote! : )
Also please reshare this to your own feeds to get more people to participate. Thanks! - vijay
voting is on hold as we are remaking the polls a little. Hang on... - vijay
NEW POLL IS UP HERE! choose your fav! -->- http://bit.ly/14RuIt - vijay
crossthestreams, FTW! :D - Yolanda
yay! Yo! :D - vijay
palstream.com and clonefeed.org are going neck to neck right now. - vijay
We are getting a lot of clicks (60) but no new votes! (only 27!) spread the word folks! RESHARE THIS TO YOUR FEED! =P - vijay
palstream.com edges into the lead. - vijay
I like streamshare too, but domain is unavailable jcunwired. Not even .org. - vijay
70 click throughs, 38 votes, palstream leads with 7, myopenfeed and clonefeed tied at 5. Watch ALL these stats blow through the roof when Kol gets online after work and posts it in his feed :D - vijay
Kol's working his magic :D - vijay
LOL. - Kol Tregaskes
Guys, have a think what the idea is for the service. It's going to be open source and the content is going to be hosted by yourselves. For me MyOpenFeed.com works well for this. - Kol Tregaskes
Sorry can I plug my vote? ;-) - Kol Tregaskes
There are a LOT of options. One thing to consider might be taking the top 5 once this poll is done, and rerunning a poll between those 5. - Rochelle
ofcourse Rochelle, I thought of that and that was my first try. Didn't end up well. See this thread -->- http://friendfeed.com/clonefe... - vijay
Let's go with this. It's hard to get enough people to vote in 2 polls. - vijay
I think its no less than awesome of this idea! A lot of us are upset that FF may not be what it was, this clone will be quite soothing to the soul. I need to know how open I can be about this poll though before I present that in mass quantity... I have exposure to fb, ms, tw, ff, msnm, gm, a lot more.... just let me know... Thanks for doing this vijay :) - Tim Tunnicliff
Tim join us here -->- http://friendfeed.com/clonefe... - vijay
From the FF site: I think its no less than awesome of this idea! A lot of us are upset that FF may not be what it was, this clone will be quite soothing to the soul. I need to know how open I can be about this poll though before I present that in mass quantity... I have exposure to fb, ms, tw, ff, msnm, gm, a lot more.... just let me know... Thanks for doing this vijay :) - Tim J @ WWW.MHWD.ORG - Tim Tunnicliff from email
[btw it's so easy to fake (for me... i mean for all of us who watch Hulu, Crunchyroll from outside US ;) ) ] - minus-one
* locks up minus-one in a sound-proof room for the length of this poll. Turns on K-ON in the room TV * - vijay
:D - minus-one
joined :-) Tim J @ WWW.MHWD.ORG - Tim Tunnicliff from email
I think you should use either openfeed.com or streamfeed.com or streemfeed.com. Those aren't on the list. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
Mathew, domains are registered. See this thread for the options and the discussion around them -->- http://friendfeed.com/clonefe... - vijay
Ah, ok. Stupid people for taking those domains. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
Does it really have to have "Feed" in the name???? - Roberto Bonini
oh we lost a ton of good options due to the squatters. like jcunwired's option streamshare. Well, we gotta work with what we have. - vijay
How about openfeeds.com. I don't think that one is taken. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
Roberto, there are options that don't have feed in the name. Choose one of them? - vijay
aye Mathew that is available. Let this vote get over and we'll work that out. Also, join the clonefeed room while you are at it. - vijay
i voted - Simon Wicks
thanks Simon! Sorry about the eariler confusion : ) - vijay
I have two more suggestions. theopenstream.com and myopenstream.com. Those are both available I checked. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
myopenstream is already on the poll Mathew - vijay
Oh I didn't see it. Guess I know which one is getting my vote. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
Although I would also like to support openff. Kinda have a logo idea in my mind for it. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
your choice Mathew. Keep the service in mind though. You can design a good logo for any name. - vijay
Vijay: this is what I've got on Twitter (from Børge (@forteller) who is Open Source ambassador in Norway):"Could you please ask vijay (seems like he's the one behind "clonefeed") to rather help out NoseRub than reinvent the wheel? or at least make it compatible with NoseRub (through OMB) so that we can subscribe to each other no matter which of them we use" - so that is what I am doing :-) - Hanna Wiszniewska
wow Hanna thank you for the update! there's a lot of people behind this and I will relay this message to them. Thanks again! : ))) - vijay
yay :) - Koray AI
You are welcome, it was my pleasure! - I think you could contact Børge - he will be happy to help out. He is @forteller on identica and Twitter (but prefers identica... ;-) - Hanna Wiszniewska
will do Hanna! btw thanks for the identica tip. He doesn't play around does he? ; P - vijay
Just wanna say thank you to everyone that is behind this, more than that--Thank you for not letting FF die as we have grown to know and love! :) Tim J @ WWW.MHWD.ORG - Tim Tunnicliff from email
this is just the start Tim; it's a long journey so buckle up : ) - vijay
Buckled and fastened! I am intrigued and fascinated and my eyes will be super glued to this thread or any thread for that matter pertaining to this subject :D Tim J @ WWW.MHWD.ORG - Tim Tunnicliff from email
Thanks vijay, I'm buckled up!!! - Myrna
Oops forgot to invite you to Holden's 18th birthday party. http://ff.im/6w96Z - Myrna
Rochelle, yep a rerun of the top 5 would be cool, with discussion. - Kol Tregaskes
no way Kol. let's finish this off instead of rehashing the whole thing over and over. two full days on just the name when people have not even figured out who's leading the team and the effort. Let's get this distraction over with and move on. we have the decisions of 112 people from 15 countries. That is more than sufficient for just the name. I bet even friendfeed didn't have this luxury when they came up with the name. - vijay
I agree vijay! - Myrna
Vijay, I didn't say anything about rehashing, I agreed with Rochelle about rerunning a vote when we have 5 winners. - Kol Tregaskes
BTW, NoseRub looks excellent!: http://vimeo.com/3003707?hd=1 - Kol Tregaskes
: ))) - vijay
I hope people are googling their name ideas before suggesting them. Optimally, you don't want any more than about 5 results for the name, and definitely don't want any results relating to any similar concepts. - April Russo (FForever!)
I have a name suggestion that I think is catchy and captures the spirit of its essence. It's both a noun and a command: OpenFirehose - April Russo (FForever!)
+1 openfirehose, April. after reading vijay's post calling for suggestions and then seeing the poll, I didn't really like any of the options. nor could I think of anything better. but openfirehose I can get behind. - chrisofspades
how about osfeed.org ? - pb:
voted ^_^ - Neya
yay! thanks Nia!! Finland Vote guys! :D - vijay
I'm messing things up b/c the poll is set, but what about: feedhq.com ? - Micah
domain taken Micah. I so wanna say squatters suck but first come first serve; it's how things roll. Practicing emotional restraint. :S - vijay
Grrr. You're absolutely right, v. I only suggested it after I got no response with a direct http request (but I didn't do a whois lookup). My bad :( - Micah
the vote counts have changed quite a bit, and erstwhile favorites are dropping - Aaman (Clone of FF)
I'm watching that too Aaman. A tad curious about the unexpected shift. - vijay
Possible hijacking ? LOL - Jacque
meh. even if it's hijacking, once the results are suspect, then there are many ways to deal with it. Let the poll run its course before coming to conclusions. - vijay
Dave Winer
"we, the users, need to own a technology company -- and have it work to serve our interests..." http://www.scripting.com/stories...
yes!:) - K.D.
A crowdsourced company. Don't we call that the government? ;) - Sean Powell
Dave... we have been considering this idea for a number of years, but I think that pulling it together requires more than a geek-army or an open-source collaborative ethos. 'Open' is a mind-set, not a movement... and great egalitarian strategies are possibly best not to be collectively authored, or you can find yourself in the middle of a mega-committee. Its a conundrum... But we are happy to share insights. - Simon Edhouse
Dave/Simon: someone will do it. Why not get started now? - Jason Cronkhite
Totally agree... the core idea that Dave is putting forward has been my 24/7 passion since 2006... and maybe Twitter & Friendfeed (RIP) are going to prove to be catalytic forces for this idea. Certainly Dave is a lot more accessible nowdays... ;) - Simon Edhouse
Simon, maybe with Dave's help we can form a community trust and put the thing together. :-) - Jason Cronkhite
Simon it would not be like that. I'll write a follow-up post. - Dave Winer
I would like to understand the financial vehicles to do this. Simon, I also agree that there has to be a structure that allows for users interests to be aligned with business growth for their benefit and the founders. Too often what happens when investors step in for pure financial return is the goal becomes focused on how to turn the company, "the exit", and not on building a sustainable company to enrich lives of the user base. - Jason Cronkhite
well... to quote Robert Burns, "The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray"... Firstly I totally agree with Dave's other post (i.e. "Rex, you're making it too complicated..") where he outlines the structure of the Public Company... no problem there. I have reasoned out the same model some time ago. - I see it like a series of check-boxes that have to be ticked... and probably... more... - Simon Edhouse
Understand & agree for the most part. RE: BIG IDEA, don't know if it really has to be earth moving all the time but rather something that enough users can stand to benefit from both of using the product and financially. Simon, how about publishing your checklist and trying to get a following around the movement? - Jason Cronkhite
The BIG IDEA is crucial... once you see it, you can't stop thinking about it, and that's what is needed to get massive buy-in. - "get a following around a movement" No... I can't drum that up. I am too small a fish, and not living in a VC hotspot. Dave's the man, if he can control his notorious crankiness (we love you Dave)... However, yes, I can add-value, but who am I? Dave has started to pull together this particular cosmic dust cloud. Let's see if he can truly lead it. - Simon Edhouse
The crowdcorp concept is the way to go, now how do we make it happen? It is tough to manage efficiently the requirements of a community - Alberto Saavedra from Nambu
RE: BIG IDEA, maybe so - maybe not...remains to be seen. RE: you're not the one, it takes powers of 2, lots of passion, determination and as Seth Godin would say a Tribe. Sure, Dave may be one to press the issue forward but this notion requires an ARMY. Dave, maybe you can enlist Scoble and the Building43 community to push this effort. - Jason Cronkhite
[edit] ...There are those on the web that are captivated by their own notoriety, as if being involved in social-networks is a popularity contest. - It isn't. If this project idea falls into the hands of the 'lime-light-seekers', who seem to have short attention cycles, it will rapidly go off-course. (that's my own personal view) - Simon Edhouse
Ah, Simon. I understand you but, this is where the Power of 2 comes in so handy (you need both - the Edhouse's & Scoble's). Keeping people on course and captivated require different talents. Maybe Scoble & Winer are perfect balances. Maybe it's others but more importantly, you need all shapes, colors and credes to do something like this and the power of collective intelligence and influence. - Jason Cronkhite
LOL... maybe we need a Jason Cronkhite too - Simon Edhouse
Its a jigsaw puzzle... but, like those super tricky huge jigsaw puzzle's, to complete it, someone needs to have the picture that encapsulates the final vision. - Simon Edhouse
Agreed Simon! I'm willing to help. - Jason Cronkhite
OK... next we need a money person... who gets it. Someone who can resource this... Its not going to go anywhere much till that person steps up. - Simon Edhouse
They are around. I forwarded a pointer to my piece today with a guy I'm working with on another project. - Dave Winer
Cool Dave. Let's keep the conversation going. I would love to see this happen. - Jason Cronkhite
I have detailed Info-memorandum type docs, and have sent overviews to John Nesheim (http://www.nesheimgroup.com/) who has given the core-ideas his thumbs-up, and offered to introduce me to VCs etc... John is a great guy, very smart and accessible. We had a long Skype chat a while ago... he gets it. - Simon Edhouse
Fantastic Simon! Are VC's really what's needed 1st? - Jason Cronkhite
VCs are probably exactly not what's needed as they (generally) are always thinking of their exit, and being risk-averse by nature they tend to look for 'me-too' plays... (projects that have successful precedents in the marketplace) ... No, an Angel Investor is what's needed. But there still has to be a killer Business Model as money people are always in the business of making more... more... - Simon Edhouse
Not to get ahead of ourselves but, even before an Angel don't we just need a passionate following of people (users of products/services they may want to own)? - Jason Cronkhite
It seems to me what is needed is a platform to evangelize the concept, get people behind the cause. Of course, a financial plan as to how users might contribute to show tangible interest would help in gaining validation and traction for larger investor types. - Jason Cronkhite
well... I instinctively take a different view on that. Not to say you are wrong, I am just really aware of the 'politics' of collaboration, the realities of project 'execution', and the realities and importance of I.P. protection for investors, even if it may become a public company (which by the way is a VERY expensive process to go through and carries with it a raft of responsibilites... more... - Simon Edhouse
point well taken simon, agreed. so, let's see if dave wants to help assemble the core group, open discussion, have a meeting of the minds in-person and push things forward. - Jason Cronkhite
Just opened a private group, "User Ventures" and sent you an invite, Simon/Dave. - Jason Cronkhite
"Jason assembled a great group of heroes, known as the Argonauts after their ship, the Argo. The group of heroes included the Boreads (sons of Boreas, the North Wind) who could fly, Heracles, Philoctetes, Peleus, Telamon, Orpheus, Castor and Pollux, Atalanta, and Euphemus." http://bit.ly/9LTx9 - Simon Edhouse
Very Cool! :-) - Jason Cronkhite
Then we all can start IPO's afterwards :) and sell our life-streams to google. - Chirag Chamoli
Simon, Argo User Ventures is assembled as a group awaiting the rest of the Argonauts :-) - Jason Cronkhite
LOL at the irony of opening a private group for this. - Nick Lothian
Nick, do you plan to contribute? - Jason Cronkhite
Nick, I have no qualms of opening up the group after those who plan to contribute help to establish a framework for the group. Foundations must be part of anything new even user centric organizations. So, if being an active contributor to help users suits you the group needs you and any other user advocate for that matter. - Jason Cronkhite
This company crowdsourced their funding: http://uk.techcrunch.com/2009... - Ray Cromwell
Another axis to think about is whether a particular idea even needs to be owned by a single entity, public, or otherwise. Chances are, if you're inventing another communication protocol/network to piggy back on the internet/web and ship data around, it isn't always necessary to have a single point of failure. Rather, you're taking a fault-tolerant network protocol (TCP/IP) and layering... more... - Ray Cromwell
Ray, just reached out to Charles Armstrong of Trampoline. - Jason Cronkhite
Interesting points Ray, and yes, the technology idea you outline is in accord with some of the ideas we have been building on... but inventing another open protocol does not necessarily a profitable people's Company make. - and Nick, as regards the irony of a private discussion... Sometimes you have to be smart... and being 'smart' is also about being prudent and careful., - Simon Edhouse
I agree, but some things are commodities/public goods and not really something that should be walled off just to try and extract profits. (Which I'm not against, I just think there are plenty of other things to make profits on than setting up more toll bridges) Would RSS have taken off if a single company owned it and all feeds had to be hosted through their domain? Maybe, but I think we'd all be worse off than the current situation. - Ray Cromwell
Yes... I agree, and this is a very interesting area. - Probably the only way I can get us out of this log-jam is to go deeper and state that I am interested in two key symbiotic projects. One being an open platform, and the other being a separate (and at arms length) vehicle to redefine the way commercial contacts between buyer and seller, or advertiser/vendor and viewer/client are conducted. - Simon Edhouse
Simon: you are a jerk if you think I do this to "seek the limelight." I shared OTHER PEOPLE'S posts here more than 21,000 times. That is called sharing. I travel the world and point my camera at OTHER PEOPLE. Building communities is hard work and the fact that you have started this project by being an asshole does not bode well for its future. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
I went and looked and Simon never even participated here. Two likes. What a jerk. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Mark: I agree, but I won't help a guy who questions my integrity and is a jerk. Maybe if he apologizes. Plus he's already proven he doesn't participate so WTF does he know about building a community? Geesh. - Robert Scoble
If I may... this is a fantastic political opportunity for all of us (bystanders like myself, geeks and users). I can hardly follow half the things you write (although I google most of it), but I watch the process as an experiment on "Open" Democracy through Open Source. My best wishes on its success no matter who partakes. If there is anything a civilian can contribute, please don't hesitate to ... well poke. :-)) - constantinos alexacos
No, the IPO comes first, before anything else. - Dave Winer
Read up on public shell companies. http://www.google.com/search... - Dave Winer
Just to add my two cents: I am a relative small fry here in this big community and have been fortunate enough to have participated in interesting discussions with both Scoble and Dave. Both have found the time (at least to some degree) to engage with me and I have since wondered how they do it (or at least how much time it takes). - Sean Powell
(Part 2) It seems based on these comments that something like this will need EVERYONE to actually be successful. With the advent of these technologies - friendfeed and (dare I say it) twitter - we now how the ability to truly get everyone involved and weigh in on decisions. That is the key here. Then we can help settle questions like: "Who decides where we go? What we do? Who's involved?" That last question should not even be considered. imho - Sean Powell
Gee, calling people "jerks" and "assholes" is just too easy in this kind of forum isn't it? But you know Robert, I did not say that you had no integrity. What I was saying was that, if something like this were to develop in an integral fashion, as in [def:] "...necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental", then its not about obtaining mass publicity first off... which... more... - Simon Edhouse
Simon, you wrote, and I quote "Pleeeeeese.... not Scoble. - Its gonna take buckets of wisdom, and patience and dare I say it, integrity." - Robert Scoble
Dave, the idea of: "...the IPO comes first" baffles me. - IPOs are very expensive, and would only seem to raise the level of risk. - What is the reason that you take that position? - I think great companies are built on great ideas, and without the solid foundation of a 'great idea', I (and other's) would sense that its an ideologically driven foray... Foundations are important. - Simon Edhouse
That, to, me, says you were saying that I didn't have any integrity. - Robert Scoble
Simon: but your last statement is better. I still think your first statement was pretty damn rude, though, and when someone calls you on your rudeness, your first answer should be "I'm sorry." - Robert Scoble
That's what my community website network is all about. See http://Frederick.com for an example. The site is owned by the community. - Craig Shipp
IPO? The IPO market doors have been shut for sometime. Thanks for the chuckle. - cheapsuits
yep... I'm sorry if that offended you, really. Loose words... I don't know you, and you don't know me. Over a coffee, we would probably have a chuckle and find quite a bit of common ground. Please accept my apology. It was an off the cuff remark, poorly executed. - Simon Edhouse
Robert... gee I should have looked at your pic before insulting you! - Lucky I'm on the other side of the planet. ;) (I'm an Aussie, from English stock... fairly reserved, and nowhere near the buzzy west coast of the US. - so on quite a different frequency) - Simon Edhouse
Apology accepted, now we can move on. Thanks! - Robert Scoble
Ok... The trigger for this discussion was Dave's clarion call: ""we, the users, need to own a technology company -- and have it work to serve our interests..." ~ Its a meme that obviously resonates with many. There's been a shift to user-control, and libertarianism rolling forward for years on the web... and the implied friction-point (which is very real) is the tension between the Web... more... - Simon Edhouse
agreed. - Thomas Hawk
Simon / Robert: Glad you guys made up :-) ... Simon, I am interested in your points of view and think there is a lot of merit to the visioning process with great leadership. I think Robert is one of the best evangelists for technology there is and letting the Scobleizer do what he does best has a time and place and I think Robert knows this and I'm sure he can move forward once there is... more... - Jason Cronkhite
Forgive me if I don't understand, but isn't the purpose of a company to make profits? Why not create a foundation akin to Mozilla or Apache instead? The closest service-oriented foundations I can think of are Wikipedia and Archive.org. It becomes interesting to me if we're talking about a services-oriented organization that provides end-user services built on top of existing and future... more... - Ankush Narula from iPhone
Ankush, I think the differentiation is that users contribution to these companies are not being rewarded. Why can the users as well as founders not be rewarded when they are essentially building the value of the company together. Companies cannot become valuable without customers so, they need each other and if users/customer bring up the valuation of the company why not have the... more... - Jason Cronkhite
But what's the end goal? Rewards or integrity? You have to find a balance in any for-profit venture. However, non-profits are driven largely by vision and integrity (ideally speaking). So let me ask some more questions. If you're laying down your money as a user+investor, won't your interests change from time to time? If you actually take a company like this public who controls the... more... - Ankush Narula
Brian... Wikipedia is a pretty good example of a company that operates for its users and is almost totally dependent on its users. However, it has no real business model, but retains a hugely valid place in most of our lives. - There is however an answer to the current dilemma/stalemate that folks here have been yearning for, and it is perfect and simple. In a nut-shell I would call it:... more... - Simon Edhouse
...and now its 4.00am down under, and I have to hit the sack... G'night fellow travellers. - Simon Edhouse
Simon... if we're talking alternatives to client-server the only one that I can think of is true distributed peer-to-peer. So perhaps a collective of such companies working together under an umbrella would be very effective since we would see many various incarnations of user+investor style companies. Interesting... - Ankush Narula
My only concern there, and its a well researched concern, is about secuity of the core protocol. there's a huge amount that can be 'open' on top, but the base transport protocol, sitting on TCP/IP needs to be super-tight, and solid. best kept as a trade secret, inside an ultimately publicy owned Company, that has rules to prevent corporations ever owning more than 10% of the stock. If... more... - Simon Edhouse
Update, I contacted Charles Armstrong, CEO of Trampoline last night and he's interested to join and learn more about this. He may be popping in soon. - Jason Cronkhite
Simon... Check out this presentation on wuala's architecture if/when you have time: http://www.wuala.com/en... - Ankush Narula
Dave ---- If I may comment about your original post sorry!), I found the post pretty inspiring. I advise on social media for an agency (no flames, please) and one of the things I talk about is "sensible" and "realistic" ROI. What I mean is very clear: we're not going to use bullshit metrics like "awareness" or "impressions" to measure whether or not our work had an effect on the brand.... more... - Michael E. Rubin
Ankush... had a quick look, but immediately I see a big discord with what I've been thinking/planning. i.e. "You can upload any file of any size"... that is a continuation of the situation that has got P2P systems into so much trouble, and stigmatized the technolgy. Its great in one sense, but it invites Piracy, copyright theft etc etc. P2P is THE logical system for the internet, (its... more... - Simon Edhouse
Public shell looks like a good alternative, is it too early to bring VRM ideas to the promised land scenario? - Alberto Saavedra
gee, don't get me started on VRM... nice philosophy, but very naive. (uh oh, 4.24am... damn) Bye... - Simon Edhouse
The users owning it - it's the Open Source model! - Marcos Marado from fftogo
We touched on 'GOOG' & 'Business Models' yesterday... my observation about the prevailing status quo paradigm for web-advertising is summarised here: http://friendfeed.com/simoned... - Simon Edhouse
hmmm... ok, if the concept of "Web Advertising" elicits such a nonplussed reaction, reflect on this: Contacts between vendor and buyer, and the drawing of these two parties together via promotion or request, is the basic process that 'Advertising' tries to achieve. However, as Danah Boyd highlighted in her December 2007 blog piece, (Who clicks on ads? And what might this mean?),... more... - Simon Edhouse
exactly - sofarsoShawn
Leo Laporte
I left Twitter for Jaiku. Then Jaiku left me for Google. I moved in with Pownce but it died. I went back to Twitter, but flirted with Plurk, Identica, and Rejaw, and even tried doing it myself with Laconica but it was Twitter I really loved. Twitter finally broke my heart so I left it for Friendfeed. Now Friendfeed is leaving me for Facebook. No...
It's like the internet version of Days of Our Lives - Jonathan Hardesty
HAHAHAHAHA.... - David from IM
Haha. ROFL - Roberto Bonini
is friendfeed going anywhere or will it just get better? - Craig Shipp
I'm with you Leo. - Oracio
It reads better than Soap - my roadmap is very similar but I'll forgive FF and live happily ever after with it (for the time being, anyway) - Nicholas Paul Gordon from iPhone
You're the best Leo. Canadians are the funniest people. - Dan Lessard
And we keep following Leo all over the place! - Robert Scoble
When will we all get in a long term relationship and stop getting our hearts broken? - Nate Pilling
so what is more important, the medium or the people, hope that FF will let us export our content, and our social netork :) (in my wild dreams) - abdellah
Need ice cream? I'm new to FF, and kind of sad I didn't jump on the proverbial wagon sooner! - Elizabeth K. Barone
Feels to me like maybe it's time to go back to building a distributed network, rather than hopping from service to service. - Ken Sheppardson
But where to next? That's the question. Wave sounds great, but the implementation will be a PAIN. So where? Oh LeoMoses...where is our path in the desert? - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
Sounds like a hurtin' country song in the making. - Bill Rodman
Well you can't say that what is happening in the 'social sphere' is boring by any means! - Matt Cassem
I think Leo's audience is more likely to click "Like" or "comment" than Scoble's is. When Leo and Rob are both posting on FF, Leo gets more likes and comments - Mark
Didn't you leave a post earlier saying how funny it was that people complain anytime there's a change (referring to the FF buyout)? This sounds like a complaint to me. - Fleagle
Not complaining - just thinking about the future. I think a little Friendfeed DNA will vastly improve Facebook. And I think Facebook is already the big winner with the general populace. I also think we geeks need a corner somewhere else to hang out in. - Leo Laporte
And I have no plans to leave Friendfeed. Yet. - Leo Laporte
Yet being the operative word..... - Roberto Bonini
sounds like a country song to me - gavin
As for this geeky alternative, http://a.tinythread.com/ just showed up in my feed this morning. Thoughts? - Craig B.
I feel more of a personal connection with the FriendFeed team than I have with other services I've left, and that will be a big part of why I will stay as long as possible. - Louis Gray
The only way to have control is to use your own URL - Craig Shipp
Wait till you meet Facebook's randy cousin Overly Friendly Book =) - Cynthia Yildirim
what Louis gray said. I'm going to hang around until the lights go out. - Jordan Brock from BuddyFeed
What they said, I don't see any reason to leave FriendFeed unless something actually changes that makes the service worthless to me. - Craig B.
And many times you cheated Twitter, she was always loyal to you. Thats mean someting! - Jacque from m.ctor.org
yup me too Louis and I don't know any of them - Thomas Power
Plurk's not worth leaving anyone for. - Rachel R.
Leo, I think you need to change your FaceFeed status to "It's Complicated" ;) - Daynah
Play this thread off, keyboard cat. - Fleagle
You have to go back to your blog. It still loves you Leo. - Dave Winer
Screw you, Friendfeed! - Andrew Leahey
Users today are investors too - only the 'exit' for us is not lucrative.... its the other way sometimes :) - Mrinal Desai
I just had the idea: wow, how good will Faceboook become though this input? (JUST imagine tagging ppl in FB the way U can Tag them in FF.) - oliver gassner
Love Stinks. - shelter watch
Leo Laporte listed his relationship as: "its complicated." - Randy Shapiro
Damn thats complicated - drmacintosh
Don't worry Leo, its not you, its them... - Steven McGurn
I agree with Jonathan Hardesty "It's like the internet version of Days of Our Lives" - And sites keep getting killed off only to come back to life a month later! - Amy Flynn
very true, however on the other hand, we are getting closer to that one service which everyone will be on... and I dont think twitter is going to be that one - Bryce Campbell
Facebook buying FriendFeed is like having to MOVE just when you got your house all dressed up and made into a comfy HOME! I don't feel like doing it again! - Arleen Boyd
Now that Facebook and Friendfeed have married, I'm waiting for Twitfacefeedplebospacening. - Anthony Marco
Leo, u by your self made two companies (services) out of 3 famous and made Google interested enough to buy 2 of them (Jaiku & FF). Google also tried to flirt with Twitter as well. So which one u choose now? Cause we will follow u :P - Sam Ehsan
Sounds like some of my past love affairs. Of course, I'm married now. That, um, was prior. - Paul Chaney
lmfao, its so true leo, so true! - Derek Bender
Feeling a bit worn around the edges? ... me too! - Susan Beebe from iPhone
Speaking of Days Of Our Lives: Didn't that show jump the shark when the serial killer was unmasked as Marlena (a character I used to have a mad crush on, and who's now mostly a professional victim)? Then all the "killed" characters came back to life, since they were only what I call "soap opera dead"... - Dennis Jernberg
And if everyone follows you, then your all having affairs all over the place! LOL - Technogran
I think it's back to the TWiT Army! - Paul Salzman
It's not like we have proposed Healthcare reform, or anything really important, going on in the U.S.A. - Steve de Mena
it's getting ridiculous, FEDERATED is the word! - Dobromir Hadzhiev
who is actually leaving FF? have many people vowed to do so yet? I'd like to but there isn't any alternative. - Denise Young
the joys and sorrows of everyday social IT folks... :-) - Thomas Lee
Not to mention Pownce was shutdown as soon as it got good! - Kenneth Reitz
No mention of Microsoft Vine? - Robert MacEwan
Why do we all assume this is a bad thing? Maybe the FF Facebook combo will be better?? - Craig Shipp
Maybe they'll keep both open -- FF is the open side, and FB is the closed side. - John Flinchbaugh from IM
Social Networks are sluts? - TheDiva Rockin
It sure is. - Jason Hill
I know exactly how you feel. What's a person to do? I am mad at Twitter for suspending some of my accounts. First, the accounts kept causing the password to reset, then they were suspended, all around the time of the DOS attacks. All I ever used Twitter for was to advertise my businesses, and for fun. Now I don't know where to go. - DogPatch
Here's some thoughts on what's going to happen:http://kennethreitz.com/blog... - Kenneth Reitz
It's like my beloved Archie comics romantic twists from childhood! Archie loves Veronica who loves Reggie who loves Betty who loves Archie... ;) - Shawn Zehnder Rossi
More like "As the worm churns" - Houseofmax
한글 와서~ 루거 .. 당신은 정말 잘 생기고있다 누드 사진 기다리다 :] - HealingBrush
One of the funniest sad stories I've heard in a long time... - Aviva Gabriel
Gotta find one who is a lady in public and a whore in the bedroom. One who looks like a woman, but thinks like a man. One who tells you you're the only person in their world and worships the ground you walk on. One who's from Venus but want's to live on Mars. One who you know will always be there even when the chips are down. One who looks like a movie star, but doesn't bust the credit... more... - Jan Simmonds
I think a lot of people LOVE to think negatively and don't want to think positively. They think FB is BAD and will ruin FF, but I think if they do it well, FB won't be the bad guy. I think most people who are irked about this are irked because they think the FFers "sold out" to the "man". - Molly Song ;)
@Mollyanna - I disagree. I am irked because the future of FF is completely uncertain. It's more likely that FB will let FF flounder and close it down than it is that FB will invest time and resources in maintaining and enhancing FF. FB has other interests and is splitting up the FF dev team. That does not bode well for FF. I don't begrudge the FF devs for taking the money. I would be... more... - Lindsay
@Jan You're an asshat. - Ian Wright from BuddyFeed
leo, check out Streamy.com. I'm actually commenting to friendfeed from there right now...you may like it better. - Casey Petersen
Haiku Laporte - Outsanity
that was cute! :O) - Jeanne
@ian - "Wordsmith. Public relations undergraduate at The University of Texas. Feminist Capitalist. WordPress geek. Future commercial rights attorney"...surely that kind of asinine comment is beneath you! - Jan Simmonds
Maybe they're just not that into you. - Elizabeth Johnson
Wait... who's on first? - Michael Rosenau
Logged in to suggest that many of us have tridden a similar path, but a lot of people have beaten me to it! I miss Pownce - Gary Purvis
wow, Leo. You've got relationship issues! - Justin Bradshaw
there there, Shawny's here... - sofarsoShawn
I sense a pattern here.. maybe you always seem to go after web2.0 services that are bent on ditching you :) - Shivanand Velmurugan
what I want is freedom... from cryptic ToS, from prying hands and eyes on my data, and from intrusive Ads. Open FTW! #facebookSux
I knew someone would bring that up but didn't think it would be so early in the discussion :D - vijay
I'm actually fine with 4chan or 5 chan as long as it has the same features(realtime and people discovery being primary) and community FF has. - vijay
4chan definitely does not have the same community as FriendFeed, lol. - James Rishabh Mishra
the problem is, no one values that enough to actually *pay* for it. At least not for the near future. Even if we assumed it was community developed and maintained by passionate hobbyists, hosting still costs money. - mikepk
++ mike. that is true. passionate hobbyism doesn't grow to the size of friendfeed. - vijay
let's just file this under "My Rants" for now. Theres nothing much going to happen in this direction in the short term. - vijay
I still predict we're going to see a massive collapse of 'free'. There needs to be some re-calibration of the value equation online, but it's going to be painful and it's going to take a long time. - mikepk
It's a nice sentiment tho. I hope it happens. :) - mikepk
lol MVB! IBM, Apple II, what did you guys do at home? Multi-OS LAN gaming? hahahaha! - vijay
Scoble, Alex Scoble
Is it wrong for me to feel a certain sense of betrayal? I didn't spend all my time here making connections, adding in interesting content and trying to get friends to join so that friendfeed would get acquired by Facebook.
I guess I should be glad that I made a bunch of new friends here and have learned a lot, but I just wish that the guys at friendfeed hadn't sold out to a company that doesn't really need what friendfeed has. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I think betrayal is the word of the day around here. - Akiva
Meh - Andrew Roche
Whatever, Chris, I'm not amused. - Scoble, Alex Scoble from IM
@Alex: I completely agree... and I haven't been and won't ever be on Facebook... - Harold
not wrong at all. I actually feel a little hurt. - Jim #teamFFrank
Yeah, I think betrayed is a good description... - Lindsay
I guess we are all betrayed - in certain terms.. but FB should have done its market research before it got this property. Most of the USERS are not happy with FB type of connections or that property , so we left and looked for something better, it was FF. Now a new hunt will begin ! - Peter Dawson
I think a lot of us feel betrayed. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
What did you do it for then? - George F. Snell III
I think it's too soon to feel betrayed. This interview made me feel a lot better about the whole deal: http://bit.ly/PReef - Adam Reyher from Alert Thingy
Yeah. That's excatly how I feel. - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
Throws a sheep at Alex... Yeah, that wasn't much fun. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed
I share your sentiments in many ways. I have been proud to tell others who had no idea that FF existed how good it is (lets hope not was!) Lets hope they keep the spirit alive. By the way the minute I see any target 'phorm' style advertising, I am off to find a new up and coming. I wont run to Tumblr yet but I do have one foot in already, just in case. - Kevin J Hatton
Feeling a bit of betrayal, or unhappiness atleast. Have a Facebook account but rarely use it since it's a walled garden. Preferred Friendfeed for better technology, organization, but even more so it's openness! - LonelyBob
I don't give 2 cents if that's wrong or not but I feel betrayed. - vijay
Peter, I doubt FB gives a crap about FF users. FB wanted the talent that worked at FF, not the product. - Jeff P. Henderson
I agree with Cecily that betrayal is a strong word. I have always understood that FriendFeed is a free service, thus I can't claim control over it. Though, really, I wonder what s going to happen to my thousands of likes, comments, posts, etc. - James Rishabh Mishra
:-) + :-( - Majento
Completely concur with you Alex. Just goes to show maybe there is room for another platform... - Arleen Boyd
As I said elsewhere, this was a talent + buzz acquisition. I sorta wish I could download my FF history and host it on my own server with SweetCron or something. - Anthony Citrano
+1 Alex. EndFeed's the word... well, how about everybody grieves for 5 minutes, then gets the search for greener pastures under way. There was plenty to be improved about FriendFeed (been saying that since well before this announcement), so I just hope that someone else has the databasing/real-time wherewithal to build something like this, improved. - Alex Schleber
Facebook doesn't even give a crap about their own users - Scoble, Alex Scoble from IM
Do any of these sites give a crap though Alex? I understand what you are saying and how it makes you feel this way, but I realised a long time ago.. they are ALL businesses and the bottom line is NO they don't give a crap... because they are NOT depending on you to be ok.. - Rob Sellen :o)
friendfeed at least acted as though they gave a crap...at least until today. And there's nothing about being a business that says "crapping on your customers is OK". Business is business does not equal "screw your customers to make a buck". - Scoble, Alex Scoble from IM
"Is it wrong for me to feel a certain sense of betrayal?" - in an emotional sense, no. In a literal sense, yes, unless you can show me where FriendFeed made a commitment to you that they'd never change in a way that didn't fit your ideals for the service. - Edward Coffey
i'm just hoping they will keep friendfeed separate and use it as a testing ground for new features. - Edgar Rodríguez
They made a commitment to us when they built a service that wasn't called Facebook or Twitter. They made a commitment to us when they listened to our feedback and participated in our feeds. They made a commitment to us with their actions. A commitment that has been forever shattered with their deal with the internet equivalent of the devil. - Scoble, Alex Scoble from IM
Lindsey is right.. the thing is Alex... friendfeed is STILL here... ;o) YOU are still here... - Rob Sellen :o)
Not for long, Rob. I give friendfeed a year tops. - Scoble, Alex Scoble from IM
And forget about any improvements to the site. You know that the team will be much too busy trying to figure out what the next iteration of Facebook should look like. - Scoble, Alex Scoble from IM
Yep , definitely a sense of foreboding there ... "for the time being" - Tom Horn
I can empathize with these sentiments, but Social Media is a set of tools--I appreciate the connections I make, but I'm not getting too emotionally worked-up about the tools changing. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
why? friendfeed.com is not going anywhere is it... no reason this place couldn't stay.. what if they LOCKED friendfeed users in now.. said.. we WILL reward you users for helping us, testing things for us etc... ;o) - Rob Sellen :o)
Rob...did you not notice who bought them? Facebook is known for doing dick for their users. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I'm sure FF is going away one way or another; there's no way that the combined company is going to keep developing full steam ahead on both products. Is it wrong to feel betrayed? I don't know. I don't personally feel betrayed, but I guess I'm not nearly as invested in FF as you and others are. I do think the end result may be something positive though; the ability to interact with the larger FB community on this level is something that could be truly wonderful. Then again, it might just end in tears... - Tristan Seligmann
"...internet equivalent of the devil" - ohh-kayy...*backs away slowly* - Edward Coffey
betrayal isn't the word i feel. it's just business. i do agree with Anthony Citrano: I wonder if there's a way to pull all of my stuff out of FF and put it on my own machine. the year I've spent here, and the 2+ years on Twitter and FB, have been to the detrimiment of my own writing and content creation. The thing about all social media is they depend on users to fill their cyber-vessels with content, and then they make a living off of that...but it's pretty difficult for you to reclaim your "stuff" later. - .LAG liked that
If Google's motto is "do no evil" then Facebook's motto is "do whatever we want to our customers, even when it makes absolutely no sense"...yeah, I'd consider that to be bordering on evil. - Scoble, Alex Scoble from IM
I did Alex.. Facebook sucks in many ways, they treat users like shit... BUT does this deal mean the actual end of frienfeed.com < the domain etc... what about if this place is used like a testing place and kept here? who knows? - Rob Sellen :o)
Ironic that! ToS & privacy & UCG & bandwidth & yet how much of that can be measured without actuarial measurements of packet flow? Not surprised based on much of the commentary the past 18 months. Attribution & authenticity matters. - Scott Moskowitz from iPhone
I think betrayal is appropriate - the FB community is NOT the FF community. Even if they make it better, or build something completely new, they will at some point shut down or gut what they have here. - Jennifer Dittrich
As long as my stuff is still indexed, I don't really care. I love Facebook - and I love watching my real friends interact with my Internet friends. :) - Mona Nomura
FWIW TXT is a bigger "content" biz than music, movies, games combined ... Yet this was not a predictable exit? Come on ... Said many times - what is a fair split for UCG & those that skim the packet flow? - Scott Moskowitz from iPhone
Betrayal is definitely appropriate. So is apprehension and a little bit of anger. - Mike Lewis
I wouldn't worry about Facebook integrating your FriendFeed content into Facebook; that doesn't seem very likely to me. - Tristan Seligmann
I feel you, Alex, and dread what is to come. But at the same time, seeing the reported terms of the deal, I don't think I would have turned it down either. - Michael W. May
Alex - Think you'd have to agree (despite the fact we don't know everything) that they were smart. On the other hand, it's pretty obvious you're not alone in your sentiments (Funny - posted this to Robert's stream first by boo-boo :) - Charlie Anzman
Alex, I feel your pain - but someone was going to acquire FriendFeed. It was inevitable. I'm just glad Facebook didn't buy Twitter. - Bill Sodeman
I would rather that Google bought friendfeed and Facebook acquired Twitter. That would have been justice. This...this is a travesty. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
So would I alex..but it never happened.. - Rob Sellen :o)
Do you think Microsoft finish the job and eat Facebook? - τorƍue
:( - Martha
pea brings up an interesting point - pseudonymity is allowed by FF, disallowed by Facebook.And what of the FF groups? - Richard Walker
τorƍue, or worse - Oracle buying out Facebook. hehe - imabonehead
follow the money - Steve Cleary
I love the way FriendFeed works, I hate Facebook interfaces. I wish there was another FriendFeed-like service to jump to. - Amit Morson
I don't think it's wrong to feel betrayed. If Facebook bought Twitter, honestly I would feel the same way. I think they're going to shutter the store here, which is kind of sad, but we'll see.... - matt singley
My fears are threefold. I fear unavoidable unwanted integration. I fear the addition of the awful Facebook TOS, and I fear the loss of the community. That last one is the big one. - Joe "The Anvil" Pierce
Joe, perhaps FB may change their TOS... - Bill Sodeman
my sense of betrayal is so strong that I made this --->- http://bit.ly/A0jWq - vijay
It's all about the money, It's all about the dum dum didudumdum, I don't think it's funny... - Dobromir Hadzhiev
Bill, that is a nice thought but it is very doubtful. It would solve a lot of the problem I have with them if they did though. I seriously just don't want to lose the awesome community that has built up here. I mean without FF how would I keep up with Alex, its not like I live in the same town....oh wait /stalkermodeactivate! - Joe "The Anvil" Pierce
If you find any decent asylum, Ryo, please check a room for me, as well, please. - Zackatoustra from email
Guess we didn't read the Terms of Service carefully enough. :-( - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
I wish it was Twitter, Google, even Yahoo but not Facebook. - Jacque
Would you have not spent all the time here (etc...) if you were told that this is a start-up business and could get acquired at any time? Or could run out of money and shut down at any time? At least you had a chance to make the connections and share/consume that content...for free. Looks like you're better off than you were before you joined, no? - mj
Rick: +1 - imabonehead
I am agree :( - Janice
To Alex Schleber: if you build it, we will come. Seriously, what Rick Cogley said too - I love that I can interact with almost anyone, not just people I'd interact with anyway and, in my case, have known forever. I love that it's like a small, really fun cocktail party with your friends, some of their friends, and a few strangers - as opposed to a convention (or, for me, a high school reunion!). Sad. - Amy℠
It's not wrong to feel betrayed, but everyone has their price - sadly. - David Jagger
I've examined the emotional reaction of Alex (and others) to the announcement http://empoprise-bi.blogspot.com/2009... - John E. Bredehoft
Dave Winer
FB buying FF is bad news for FF users.
Agree totally Dave - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
Why do you think so Dave? - Tim Akinbo
10000% agree, its dreadul and the big boys like Leo and Scoble cant seem to see it! - Mark
Leo laporte says "This is a big step toward an open Facebook. This has been their goal all along: a distributed Facebook." What a Crock of SHITE - Mark
They bought the people! - Mark
yeah... but it is also a smart move, they got the team.. - Rob Sellen :o)
I'm trying to give the FF team the benefit of the doubt...but I'm having a hard time with it as well. - Ken Kennedy
Born to be sold, we were used to say in the new economy era. - Federico Bolsoman
They bought the people. We Stick with that. FF guys are Smart/fast and have deep Google knowledge - Marco Massarotto from iPhone
I agree an independent Friendfeed might be preferable for we few brave FF users. But the writing was on the wall. For most users it's Twitter or Facebook or nothing at all. Aligning with Facebook is smart long term thinking if FB is planning to open up as I am convinced they are. - Leo Laporte from BuddyFeed
Let's hope that FB doesn't block people from using the 'competeition' while on FF. - shelter watch
Seems everything's headed for an autumn war Facebook <> Google Wave - Jordi Soler
hmm, an open, new version of FB that uses all of what makes FF great would be nice. - Dusty Edenfield
Leo's got the right idea, and independence is a myth - Steve Gillmor
Well, how could it possibly be a good thing? - Fleagle
Agree, I'm not a Facebook fan although I try but.. I'd definitely take FF over FB anyday. - Sharon Dexter
I prefer a FriendFeed folded into Facebook versus a FriendFeed that quietly fades away, which is the direction this was going. - Mike Doeff
Totally agree - facebook is so tedious and slow. FF is wonderful. - Zphotogal
+1 mike - Riaz Kanani
We imagine FB with the SEO juice of FF, thus intercepting search traffic... - Marco Massarotto from iPhone
I can certainly see the best ideas from FF being folded into FB but not sure what that says about the future of this site and the data it contains - Keith Harrison
Except for the whole FriendFeed dying slowly in the obscure ghetto of the digirati part. As Mike said, FF in FB is better than no FF at all. FriendFeed users are far better off having it than watching it its gradual anemia grow worse and worse until one day it vanishes. - Curtis Schweitzer
While this may never happen, consider it a possibility - your entire FB feed now available in FF. - Tim Akinbo
It is really hard to see how FB will do more than incorporate staff and ideas from FF. FriendFeed's design of being a very open aggregator is very different than FB's walled garden ethic. I also think part of what attracted me to prefer FF over FB is the clean interface, as opposed to FB fire-in-a-bordello presentation style. I hope FB really listens on the UI side and not just on the aggregator side, or works just mines out the staff. - Technodad
This is a good thing for FF and FB both. This will lead to a more open FB and steal Twitter's thunder. - Tim
"the writing on the wall?" ... that's just hyperbole, Leo. Paul Buchheit himself said in his interview w/ Scoble that they could have kept the service alive "for years"...there was no financial issue forcing this, like tr.im or something. And while I suppose there are those that believe the most popular site/music/art/people are always the best, I think that's both a shallow way of... more... - Ken Kennedy
Like 4 Ken - Marco Massarotto from iPhone
What I care about most is having a Facebook profile that is *actually* public, viewable by non-users. - Andrew Roche
I definitely DONT LIKE IT grmphhh ! - laetSgo
@andrew that's one thing FF team is very good at: climbing Google :) - Marco Massarotto from iPhone
DOnt like it either. I'm off to a self hosted http://sweetcron.com/ or wait for a http://kakuteru.com/ invite. - Mario Valente
i'll agree to wait this one out before being totally devastated about Facebook buying FriendFeed - Chris Heath
Let's leave "en masse" - Giorgio Burlini from iPhone
Facebook is banned from my work computer. - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Live *open* BadHair podcast in 8 minutes. (347) 843-4661. Call in if you have a comment or question re FB/FF. Starts in 3 minutes. - Dave Winer
Wait and see ... - Kate Foy
It means you'll have to share. wahhhhh - Andrew Smith
I think it is a bad idea. I don't like to use Facebook except for frivolous reasons. FF has been good for reliable information. I suppose I'll stop using it so much now. We'll see. - Barbara K. Iverson
I want to see where this is going but definitely my favorite social site just got folded into my least favorite. - Braden Douglass
It depends entirely on what direction FF would have taken next (and what direction it will take Dave). Think most of us that have been around FF since almost the start (when it was a MUCH smaller place) miss that but this actually might be a good thing. - Charlie Anzman
Agreed if they lose the FF interface. - Wei-Yen Tan
If we put all our faith into a single platform or a single solution [Twitter/FB/Goog] then we lose touch with people, processes and where history is taking us. In this case, we’re headed more in the direction of where .tel and Identi.ca are stumbling, consciously or not: towards a non-web-centric, permission-based polycephalous set of systems, where discussions and messaging transpire... more... - A Mitchell
Google Wave is coming to replace all this stuff. And Google Reader will get more social features including item recommendations through comparing users likes, and so Google will win this. Good time to sell. - Charbax
Interesting convo we had there dave, thanks for letting us call in and participate. - Chris Heath
But the real question is who will take over who? Isn't there a possibility that FriendFeed will takeover Facebook! I hope FB make it work as I like the idea of FF but it doesn't have the critical mass of people talking about what I am interested in! - Phillip Molly Malone
Very bad I'm sure there will be some changes - Annika from Nambu
I agree it's probably bad news for FF users.FF has reliable info. I don't want it to become chatter. - Leigh Marriner
I'll admit to being a recent convert to FF but it was the best social site I have used yet (and I have used them all). I am sorry to see it lose it's independence. This will not end well for FF groupies. But my reading of the tea leaves is that FF options as a standalone service were not good. I guess this is a sign of a maturing market. Can a Larry Ellison acquisition be far behind? - Michael Liss
simply but clear - Gioia Feliziani
I agree with Dave's original assertion. I'm struggling to imagine the value Facebook could add to FriendFeed, and I can certainly imagine the downsides. Having an aggregator that sits independently on top of the commercial pile, while fleeting as a free service, is a valuable one. - Allred
disagree. - Gus
I have my suspicions too. But Facebook have been wanting to open up more for some time (e.g., they're eliminating regional networks), and I'm guessing they see FF as the key. I'm betting they'll fuse the two services soon. But let's hope they use FF to improve FB. But there's always a big chance FB will ruin FF. Stay tuned... - Dennis Jernberg
+1 for A Mitchell's insights. If tr.im and FF have taught us anything, it's that no matter how many open api's there are, a closed platform is still a closed platform, and it can disappear overnight. We need a decentralized yet federated way to do all that FF did (and more). If it's not decentralized, we don't have redundancy. if it's not federated, we lose community an conversation. - Don Faulkner from BuddyFeed
another +1, Don and A Mitchell. I just finished a blog post along almost exactly the same lines, Don...decentralization and federation are both key. Good news is, this is historically how things go...nerds only, then mainstream joins, but centralized (think AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy...services and email that couldn't talk to each other). As the systems mature, then value of decentralization becomes apparent. This week could actually be an important milestone in speeding up that process *here's to hoping...*. - Ken Kennedy
But Facebook buying friendfeed is great news for the 250+ million fb users! (And most ff users have fb :) - Garin Kilpatrick
It would have been better (slightly) if they were acquired by Twitter. I'm not a Twitter fan, but I think FF would bring more to twitter, it would be a better fit and the users and the interface would have a better chance at "integration" - Mario Valente
I've read its good for FF, it's bad for FF. It's better than being sold to google, it's better than being sold to twitter. Myriad variations on a theme, which leads me to conclude we haven't got a clue what the future will bring. - Mark
FB will better integrate FF than Google or others ever would -- one hopes. let's see what happens and go from there. Good news is that it will generate a ton of news for you peeps to report on. - Gavin Adams
It's simply time for a distributed story for this type of application. You shouldn't need to rely on any providers who can be down or might be bought. - Christian Scholz
"Google Wave is coming to replace all this stuff." And lock you into yet another platform owned by one company. - Ian Betteridge
@Ian...Wave is a federated, decentralized, (to be) open-sourced solution. It's complicated, but it's at worst an architecture lock-in (ie, it might be hard to move a large corpus of Wave-annotated data out of the Wave infrastructure). Unless Google is pulling a flat-out lying fast one...there won't be any reason why you can't run your "own" instance of Wave and connect to the rest of the Net. So not standard company lock-in. - Ken Kennedy
Ken, to be honest, I'll believe it when I see companies other than Google taking the code and running an equivalent service. Flat out lying? No, probably not. But "only able to do something useful if you're connected to Google in some way"? Probably. - Ian Betteridge
@Ian, I hear ya, but I've read enough of the technical specs to lay my money on the other side of that bet. - Ken Kennedy
Really? I think the old Jaiku community would disagree with you on that. And the people who stored their bookmarks in Google Bookmarks, too. - Ian Betteridge
why? - Thomas Power
Sorry - I meant Google Browser Sync rather than Google Bookmarks. One is dead, the other alive and well(ish). But the point is that Google has a track record of killing or abandoning services when it suits. - Ian Betteridge
True, Ian. Google's "do no evil" doesn't keep them from killing things that aren't panning out for their world domination strategy. They're marginally more saintly than Facebook. - Sean Gallagher
Is it because of the Facebook ad approach that Dave W and Scoble are looking to jump ship on FriendFeed? - Sean Gallagher
Sean: I'm not jumping ship. But I will follow early adopters wherever they go. - Robert Scoble
Or Google Notebook. Even given that and Jaiku, though, which did do a blow to my faith in Google, I would rather a Google-FriendFeed than a Facebook-FriendFeed. Mostly because I think they'd let it do its own thing rather than assimilate it. They left YouTube pretty well alone. Oh well. - Jandy
disagree with FF and LI nxt year bottled up inside Facebook this forces Google MS and Apple to get seriously social and start playing rather than just watching. Google-Twitter, Apple-Facebook versus Microsoft-Bing now that's a battle I want to (socially) watch with all you guys. Oh what fun. Can't wait. - Thomas Power
I'm not sure Facebook or FriendFeed are entities whose well-being I value so highly; users, I care about, and having FriendFeed developper work their magic, their talent and their stand for open standard to benefit 300M people sounds more important to me then having them spend more time tailoring the digerati's private network. I'm far for believing you can't improve FriendFeed, but I'd... more... - Bertil Hatt
@Bertil_Hatt: if there's one thing that FriendFeed isn't it's a private network. Facebook is the one who, on the other hand, operates like a "walled garden" or a private condo. - Miguel Caetano
Only if you believe the FF has a sustainable business model? - Gary Walter (gwalter)
FF is F'ed - Shivanand Velmurugan
Matt Cutts
Congrats to Paul, Bret, and the whole FriendFeed gang. But I hope you bring a big shot of openness into the Facebook ecosystem, because it doesn't feel that way right now.
Exactly. - EricaJoy
Very sad day I think. - travispuk
Congrats! - Daniel Brusilovsky
congrats indeed, but damn, this seems like it's going to be bad :( - acedanger
exactly - mike "glemak" dunn
NO Congrats or whatsoever "to Paul, Bret, and the whole FriendFeed gang. But I hope you bring a big shot of openness into the Facebook ecosystem, because it doesn't feel that way right now." Matt, dear! You Stole My Words! ROFL :)))) Just curious - is there anything more important than money? It seems NOT ROFLMAO - Lora Lufark
lots of truthiness in that statement. - Sushubh
I am sad. No congratulation at all. - bellegarde-webb
Besides being closed, Facebook has never adequately addressed serious privacy issues in its past. I strongly distrust them as a company and I'm sad to hear that they're gobbling up a service and a group of people I do trust. But if both services end up being elevated to FriendFeed's high standard then this will be a great day in hindsight. - Doug Beeferman
Well put doug, I feel same way: I trust FF, I dont trust FB. I'm skeptical this acquisition will change FB enough for me to trust it, but we'll see. - Evan Parker from Android
Facebook is a cult - Joe Dawson
Has anyone got an idea for a friendfeed alternative? - Ru Viljoen
Ru, I think Hellotxt.com might be a decent alternative to Friendfeed (it can also post to Friendfeed for you so you can keep your feed if you wish). I may start using it instead. Not sure. There's also identi.ca which claims to be adding more features for cross-posting. They use the Opensource Laconi.ca platform - PurpleZoe
thx for suggestions but looks like those are both exclusively microblogging platforms. - Ru Viljoen
no congrats, but I agree with the rest. - Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
Identi.ca is mostly a microblog (I hear cross-posting networks should be enabled soon), but Hellotxt.com is a lifestream (you can cross-post and etc across networks) I believe. Unfortunately it's slow at times. I'll miss Friendfeed if it gets sucked into the Facebook network, instead of remaining a stand-alone app. Not at all happy about the acquisition. - PurpleZoe
3 other possibilities: lifestream.fm, Socialthing.com and possibly Streamy.com - PurpleZoe
Now might be a good time for socialthing to exit private beta and enter public - Ru Viljoen
Agreed. - PurpleZoe
You know what I like about FriendFeed? It has a community that I just haven't really seen elsewhere. A real community; an intelligent, thinking, community; a community that will *fight* to protect itself. Viva FriendFeed!
Bwana ☠
"FF connected me with new friends that I would never have known. FB connects me with old friends I could have done without. :(" - jcunwired http://friendfeed.com/jcunwir...
Exactly - Shevonne
The best comment I've heard today! - Bonnie Foster
its actually quite easy to ignore someone you could have done without. *sigh* - Sidney
Wow. Some of you apparently live terrible lives, filled with terrible people you seem unable to avoid, with the possible exception of this one website, I feel terrible about that.Of course, it's also possible you've wildly overestimated the difference between the people you know here and the people who know you in real life. - Richard Lawler
Or it could be, you're wrong. - Bwana ☠
Nope, you're the ones who keep saying everyone you know and everything you do on facebook sucks. That must be terrible. - Richard Lawler
Yes Richard because clearly I can make friends from all over the world on my daily stroll through the park. Or not. - vijay
Yes, it's confirmed. You're wrong. - Bwana ☠
bingo - Jim Goldstein
My life wouldn't be the same without vijay - Rodfather
If everyone you've physically encountered sucks, the problem just might be you. - Richard Lawler
Hear, hear. This news sucks. - Arawak
Oh Lord....not this guy :) - Rahsheen
I like this post, but I love all my social networks equally lol. - Ryan Peach
Luckily, unlike so many here, I can keep using any website I want the same way I did before without devolving into a baseless bitchfest about what might happen someday somewhere. Or, I could have kneejerk reaction based on irrational fear. hmmm - Richard Lawler
And you're very good at keeping your assumptions to yourself - Bwana ☠
Except, they haven't really said anything. So thinking anything will or won't survive is premature. If Facebook perfectly met everyone's expectations there would be no need for war, sickness or evil deeds. Every online community is the same as every other one, if friendfeed, for whatever reason, doesn't keep doing what you want ti to do, you'll use something else. It hasn't ever been perfect and it never will be. - Richard Lawler
I told you Richard. You're wrong. "Taylor and Cox say that the Friendfeed product will live on independently, and eventually Friendfeed will be merged into Facebook. But the Friendfeed team is not being kept whole. Some employees will now report to Cox, others to engineering head Mike Schroepfer. In my opinion that means, long term, the Friendfeed product itself is unlikely to be a big priority." http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Bwana ☠
Well, you told me what techcrunch's opinion is, because that's what I wanted to know. Thanks! (there's sarcasm there) - Richard Lawler
Ok let me slow it down for you. The team is splitting. The product is going to merge with Facebook. (No sarcasm) - Bwana ☠
Wow Bwana...you are really bitchy in this thread...I think Richard is making some good points. If you are having issues with the people you 'accept' on Facebook there really is only one person who you can point the finger. You. Facebook makes it quite easy to NOT get involved with any person. - Sidney
Thanks. Appreciate the feedback. - Bwana ☠
Same here. Wisely said! - Neya
You are probably right. I am checking things out only now - AbZ from Nambu
I couldn't have put it better myself. Just got back and saw the news. Still digesting it. - Charlie Anzman
Well said guys! - Susan Beebe
Dont twitter groups achieve a similar effect? - AbZ from Nambu
LOL - Thomas Power
It's interesting to see ho people use different networking sites - for example - I use FB for personal connections and family and the rest are business related. - Graham Bunting
I like my friends, but you are definently right. I just got on friendfeed any advice on making friends? - Ryan Peach
Smart! - Martha
Great insight! - William Phillips
AJ Batac
List your FriendFeed alternative here:
*blink...blink* - Josh Haley
Google Reader - andy brudtkuhl
Facebook LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Akiva
There is none. - Kol Tregaskes
SocialMedian and Strands - Anika
Bonfires - Rodfather
There's an alternative? That's the problem...today's announcement threatens something that most of us have found to be without equal. - Kristin of Two Everything
Facebook and twitter. But they don't add up to what Friendfeed is. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood
Google Reader and Facebook have been absorbing Friendfeed features slowly but steadily all along. In 15 years someone will dig up some old screenshots and say "remember all those? heh, yah, things sure have changed, huh?" - Jason Wehmhoener
I dunno. Tumblr, maybe? Metafilter? Chi.mp? Likaholix? *shrugs* - Steven Perez
Like Scott said, that's the problem. There *is* no good alternative. FF has been the closest thing I've ever found for using the internet the way I want to. - Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
LifeStream.fm http://lifestream.fm - AJ Batac
Google, as it continues to socialize its environment. Also, don't forget about the next big thing we haven't seen or thought about yet. Someone will innovate another service that blows everything else away (like FriendFeed does now). - Larry Hawes
Posterous + Twitter???? - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
I may just have to try something desperate... like real-life interaction. I know! It's such a desperate move! :'( - Ordinarybug Heather
Blellow? - andy brudtkuhl
Good idea..... - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
Google Wave, right? - Nathan Chase
NoseRub - Ken Sheppardson
Meemi.com - catepol from iPhone
<Placeholder> - Bwana ☠
Besides Google Wave, I don't think anything anyone is naming would be even close to the same. - Rahsheen
FaceFeed? - Kevin J Hatton
FriendBook? - Kevin J Hatton
What Nate said...Google Wave.....it is coming!!!!!! - Kevin J Hatton
ICQ - Jacque
Good shout, Nathan! Yes Google Wave. - Kol Tregaskes
Jaiku - It can import feeds. It has threaded conversations. - Morton Fox
Redux.com? Mostly for entertainment though - Wang Yip
jaiku is the closest thing - feed import, rooms, conversations etc... - don't see how wave can work like friendfeed without a lot of add-ons / hacking - Adrian
jaiku's been neglected by google. I've been a member for 2 years and yes, nothing has changed. - AJ Batac
the closest thing to FF that I know about is the blogoscoped Forums !! - Peter Dawson
jeffisageek.net and jeffisageek on twitter - (jeff)isageek
When did Noah build the ark? Before the rain, not after it. - Steven Perez
Twitter, but it's not nearly as cool as FF. :( - Kevin Winn
Drum circle - Rodfather
Useful list:) - Ozgur Uckan
I've decided to taste some soup. - Kenton
Bowling league - Rodfather
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE there is NO freakin' replacement for FriendFeed. *cries* - Susan Beebe
WoW - Rodfather
Posterous - Zulkarnain K.
is Iminta.com still around? - Nathan Rein
Google Reader - Mike Reynolds
I think I'll go with AJ's choice above, the closest thing I know to FF is Lifestream.fm but didn't like it the last time I was on it. - Kol Tregaskes
I didn't even know Jaiku was still a going concern. - cheapsuits from iPhone
I've had an account with lifestream.fm for ages but I have not been there for about a year, time to go and have a look then - M F
google Wave - Furkan Tunalı
For you guys who says Google Wave, it's not yet available to the public so we can't use it. - AJ Batac
Lifestream.fm Looks really similar in terms of features, like Kol and AJ said. - Anton
checked out lifestream... seems alright, I suppose... but not really the same. just what I"m doing. doesn't seem to be very "conversation" based. - Nathalie
I don't have one. :( - Christian (Simply X) from Android
I just found this one from Mark -> http://lifestreamblog.com/create - AJ Batac
Storytlr is another place to feed in all your different places. People can comment and things, but, how to see all your friends? I think you can add it to GReader. Here's mine: http://yolanda.storytlr.com/ - Yolanda
storytlr is a good one. - Nathan Rein
AJ: Google open-sourced Jaiku ... they really don't do anything besides host the code now. - Kevin Mohr
Kevin: Even when it wasn't open-sourced, it wasn't updated. - AJ Batac
Friendster. And perhaps GooglyfaceFeed? :P - imabonehead
Unfortunately Jaiku hasn't gotten back the capability for importing feeds. And even in its best days its feed handling wasn't as good as FriendFeed's basic feed handling. This admission is saying something, since I've been such a Jaiku evangelist, until its problems got too big and destroyed the community there. I actually was kind of pissed off at FriendFeed when I first learned about... more... - Cheryl Jones
Considering rolling my own. PubSubHubbub is merely infrastructure; Wave isn't ready; Google Reader is more like digg/reddit, needs more ability to host its own content in addition to discussion; posterous and tumblr are really blogs, and are still kind of isolating; The real problem would be getting people to use a federated, distributed setup: there's a usability and consistency aspect to a having a single destination website where people can congreate; that, and I'm kind of lacking time. - Andy Bakun
+1 Andy. FriendFeed is a very unique amalgam of features, that once you come to appreciate them, are glaringly lacking on most other social platforms. Agreed that distributed would be a good idea to avoid the cost and control issues we have seen play out yesterday. Who knows, maybe Zuckerberg will surprise us all by making FF (by whatever name) an open building block in the FB ecosystem... more... - Alex Schleber
Here is a new development to possibly add to the list: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Alex Schleber
Facebook, Twitter, Google Reader and Digg - Joe Dawson
http://enjoy.sthin.gs or whatever its name is written? I'll try it out, just signed up - Franc, a rememberer
Re: Stabbed in the back by FriendFeed - http://farner.in/blog...
"The thing I'm disappointed about? They let the news break in TechCrunch. Scoble or Louis Gray could have at least gotten a traffic spike with even a little advance notice, but they apparently learned about it from TechCrunch." - DGentry
does anyone tried identoo? - ovigia
I'm planing to test it along with every other "potential alternative" in http://www.fftogo.com/e... - Marcos Marado from fftogo
open source & free software news
You Deleted Your Cookies? Think Again (Wired) - http://lwn.net/Article...
Mathew™ aka Youngblood
3 Reasons Why the Facebook Acquisition of Friendfeed Sucks - http://mathewballard.com/blog...
3 Reasons Why the Facebook Acquisition of Friendfeed Sucks
Today Facebook announced that it bought Friendfeed for $50 million. For this Friendfeeder it is a very very sad day and I’m just going to go ahead and jump right into my five reasons why this acquisition sucks. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood from Bookmarklet
haha, nice - acedanger
open source & free software news
open source & free software news
open source & free software news
Open source users revolt over OpenOffice new "Office 2007" ribbon - http://rss.feedsportal.com/c...
Opensource Obscure
Focusing on Twitter again, now that I don't feel comfortable on FriendFeed any more. I see no future for FF itself as a standalone service.
Miguel Caetano
FriendFeed Price Tag Reportedly $47.5 Million in Cash and Stock - Justin Smith (Inside Facebook) - http://www.insidefacebook.com/2009...
FriendFeed Price Tag Reportedly $47.5 Million in Cash and Stock - Justin Smith (Inside Facebook)
"The WSJ says Facebook paid about $15 million in cash and about $32.5 million in Facebook stock (based on the recent $6.5 billion valuation DST put on employee shares) that will vest “over several years.” The vesting schedule is apparently designed to ensure that FriendFeed’s 12 employees, 11 of which are engineers, apply their insights to Facebook’s challenges for a long time to come." - Miguel Caetano from Bookmarklet
Miguel Caetano
Open Source ‘Twitter’ Could Fend Off the Next Twitpocalypse - Eliot Van Buskirk (Epicenter/Wired.com) - http://www.wired.com/epicent...
"Laconi.ca, which seems to have gained more traction than the other two OMB platforms, forms the backbone of Identi.ca — an open-source Twitter clone with features Twitter lacks (image uploading, trackbacks, native video playback, OpenID) that lets you post updates to its own network as well as Twitter and Facebook. Status.net will soon add the ability to follow Twitter and Facebook feeds using the corresponding APIs, so users will soon be able to make Identi.ca their default short messaging communications hub — even if those services won’t use the open standard." - Miguel Caetano
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