Jason Miller › Comments

Curious -- how many children are born with "intrinsic" motivation? Or is this something that is environmental? - Mickey Schafer

Intrinsic versus extrinsic. - AJCann

yes, learning can be both intrinsically and extrinsically motivated--and I believe this is true for everyone with variation depending on what has to be learned. But I've also encountered the terms as personality dimensions, and it isn't clear in the article which one was being used. - Mickey Schafer

Yesterday, I overhead a very interesting conversation during which a school counselor was advising a parent with a failing child to remove all things of value to the girl and make her earn it back by achieving passing grades. This included _everything_ the girl liked from clothes and shoes to electronics to time with friends. She quipped after that she frequently has to teach parents how to be parents since today's generation was ill-informed. I found her horrifying. - Mickey Schafer

@Mickey: that sounds like a recipe for leaving home at 16 and never going back to me. Horrifying indeed. - Bill Hooker

There is some truth to this - when I have students play games for prizes, the reward (usually a chemistry book) is not the central motivation but it does make it more fun for the very best students to compete a bit. Similarly, with our ONSChallenge where students do labwork, the cash prize is small enough to not be the primary motivation but again it makes things more interesting. - Jean-Claude Bradley

Jean-Claude, I agree that external motivation is quite useful. Nor does it have to be a big deal! I have premed students who once commented with enthusiasm that they would like get smiley stickers on their papers -- I was amazed. Didn't invest in stickers, but have thought about why this would be the case. In writing, the work is very personal and I get to see so many different sorts of... more... - Mickey Schafer

I also suspect we over-romanticize the intrinsic nature of learning in children. Yes, they do like learning, and they are curious, and the natural process of hypothesizing and testing that occurs can be rewarding (to a normal child). But this isn't the same process being used in school. And getting a kid to study for something like a spelling test in the first grade has very little to... more... - Mickey Schafer

Mickey good points. I experimented with different rewards and didn't find that much difference between a $5 reward and a video ipod - there is a type of student that responds to this type of competition so why not make their experience more enjoyable even if not all students respond? - Jean-Claude Bradley

Doesn't this relate to Dan Pink's TED talk where tasks requiring significant thought were indeed adversely affected by a reward system? - Peter Miller

That's a good point, Peter. And it gets at a real conflict in public education. Tasks that require significant thought are often intrinsically rewarding; James Paul Gee makes this point about computer games that are really quite complex, require hours of play to finish, and which kids readily engage in. In the public sphere, especially a test-driven one like the U.S., such tasks don't... more... - Mickey Schafer

People, remember that we need to be attracting more people to the benefits and rewards of making the effort of deep thinking and problem solving. We could and should considering using a reward system to draw young people (and by 'young', I mean from pre-school to college) into situations where they need to challenge themselves by thinking deeply. When they are at that place, we can... more... - Jason Miller

Very interesting point, Jason, but figuring out how to draw a young child into complex activity, especially in a public school setting, is damned difficult. My kids are in a science/tech magnet precisely b/c the educational tasks are deeper and often collaborative. This particular program also screens more for motivation to learn than sheer "IQ" -- the academic requirements for selection are "B" grades and above, but the clincher is whether the kid wants to work. - Mickey Schafer

And while I agree that drawing a greater population in is really important, my observations after a year of volunteering is an unpleasant truth: kids are not equally talented. They are not all cut out for complex work whether b/c of personality or ability. I would argue that bribing the talented is a crucial undertaking since many of those will not pursue careers in STEM b/c those jobs... more... - Mickey Schafer

Mickey - I agree with what you're saying. One think I'm sensitive to (and it sounds like you are, too) is where and how we look for talent. If we're looking for talent in white-bread communities, then we're doing something wrong. If we're looking for talent in _all_ communities, especially in those that have historically been underrepresented in STEM, then we're doing something right. This will bring new challenges and frustrations, but that is a Good Thing. Don't you think? - Jason Miller

Yeah, CEs are a great opportunity for providing training in the New Biology to in-service physicians and other health professionals. But offering CEs isn't going to help too much unless the health establishment assists in designing them and promoting them. But I like the idea. - Jason Miller from email

I keep wondering if CEs are a market unto themselves? The dentist I interviewed Monday is constantly doing CEs, little free ones to big freaking expensive ones. It's endless. She also attends regular meetings with more local organizations that pull in professors to give talks during dinner and stuff. I've thought that starting local would be a good idea. I can't do the work for this kind of training, but there was also a lack of awareness of OA in general...just spinning these ideas about lately! - Mickey Schafer

I agree with SDAllen - FF isn't going anywhere. And Posterous isn't the same, though it could be used as a launching point for your content, though it won't capture the conversations that your content generates. That, the conversation, is one of the powers of FF. - Jason Miller

Jason, I totally agree with everything you say. It seems that as of late the service has suffered a bit of benign neglect from its team, and my concern is that it won't grow and evolve (even to the simple things like adding new services) as it did before the acquisition. That said, I've been here since nearly the beginning and have seen the power and potential of the platform. I just hope it starts getting the development attention it deserves. - Mark Edwards