It's also interesting in the context of the fact DirecTV viewers no longer get the Versus sports network, as they couldn't negoiate a deal with Comcast
- Ken Sheppardson
ask Al Gore how he feels about their negotiations re: Current TV
- Karoli
Comcast is very aggressive in keeping out local competitors - they have bought every local cable company or forced them out. They have locked out all local sporting events
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Yeah, here in San Francisco we couldn't get the Stanford/Cal game this fall... it was on Versus. And it means no daily, live Tour de France coverage next July :-(
- Ken Sheppardson
It was "rooter" before people started to mispronounce it.
- Gregg H.
I wonder what this means for their TV On Demand section - currently NBC is not listed for any shows and CBS is very big in that list. Will this change and now NBC will only be On Demand? Will Hulu now be a Comcast Cable only site?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
The Network has changed to the point that combining cable + tv production can't corner the market in anything.
- Cliff Gerrish
consolidation of power and message control
- Karoli
cliff, if i have no access to nbc news because i'm not a comcast subscriber, the messages aren't especially helpful.
- Karoli
Don't you have access to NBC news via the network?
- Cliff Gerrish
cliff - they already "load balance" based on where/when you are streaming from/to - so now what's to prevent them from load balancing all ABC/CBS sites in favour of NBC?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Francine, the argument against the acquistion is that they'll control the Network. They won't.
- Cliff Gerrish
That's a good question - will Comcast/NBC still allow Netflix/Mediafly content to be streamed at full speed or will it become traffic shaped
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
you mean will the net be.. you know... neutral?
- Ken Sheppardson
Google will spank properties that throttle - that alone will keep them playing fair.
- Rob La Gesse
All proprietary un-free software and platforms will lose in the long run.
- Gregg H.
Cliff, they already do. If I am watching a streaming video for more than 5 minutes I get traffic shaped. If i'm watching Comcast On Demand I do not. Will Hulu now be traffic shaped or will it get a pass? That what will be the clue if they are acting in a network neutral manner
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Windows is dog slow on good rigs, whereas Chrome OS is fast even on weak hardware.
- Vezquex: God of FF
Francine - it is basically throttling of your bandwidth based on content and/or destination
- Rob La Gesse
Francine - if i'm streaming a video on Comcast the first 5 or so minutes are at my full bandwidth capability (15mbs) but if I continue past that point the speed of the video drops to less than 1mbs
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
But Silverlight is from Microsoft. How can it be good?
- Vezquex: God of FF
Amazing Silverlight is actually seeing some traction. Developer Cuz predicted it would 2 years ago.
- JimmyJet
When Google switches Youtube videos to Ogg Theora natively palyabe in HTML 5 Browsers I think Gillmor and others that deride the importance of free software codecs and platforms will have a revelation
- Gregg H.
bah - I have to run an errand - I wish the video show could be viewed later
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
wish those questions had been asked in 2001
- Karoli
Bear - it can - they are always posted on building43.com a few days later.
- Rob La Gesse
Gillmor Gang is available on YouTube - your DVR of choice...
- Cliff Gerrish
google'll be using h264 and html5 video before any os codec
- Kevin Marks
Silverlight is as un-free as you can get.
- Gregg H.
Mike - use a hand grenade, Those suckers are tough!
- Rob La Gesse
seriously, take a pair of scissors and cut it. It works. surgically, even.
- Karoli
Is locked down linux an open system?
- Cliff Gerrish
The importance of the use of our computer devices in our lives are fundamental. That's why the software and hardware has to be free. Otherwise we don't control our lives. The software and hardware providers control our lives. That's the problem Steve.
- Gregg H.
But you need a real computer to debug anything. You couldn't actually debug from within Chrome OS.
- Vezquex: God of FF
Is ChromeOS going to give you access to the command line?
- Cliff Gerrish
Gregg - that's crazy. As crazy as "free" healthcare.
- Rob La Gesse
strange disconnect between these guys talking about high tech and Mike opening a plastic insane package with his teeth.
- Karoli
The importance of the use of cars, homes, electricity and food in our lives are fundamental. That's why cars, homes, electricity and food has to be free. Otherwise we don't control our lives. [oh, "free" free]
- Ken Sheppardson
Chromium is NOT free. I pay for it with my attention and my gestures - and Google profits off both.
- Rob La Gesse
"opening a plastic insane package with his teeth" Either a good way to take out aggression or raise blood pressure, take your choice.
- JimmyJet
the livestream from SuperNova has been great. Good panels and very good discussions.
- Jerry Schuman
If we understand that phones are going to the Network -- why don't we see that television is going there as well.
- Cliff Gerrish
Aside from a philosophical view. After being Windows free for 2 years and being free of malware, spyware, adware, and not having to run virus scan software and all that crap, I really don't understand why people like Gillmor think Linux is second class to Windows. I would never want the pain and horrible experience of using Windows again purely for practical reasons.
- Gregg H.
Gregg, I understand Windows 7 is quite nice. I'm planning to buy a cheap Windows 7 notebook as a backup machine.
- Karoli
You guys should talk a bit about Status.net, formerly Laconi.ca. Evan Proudomu just got over $1 Mil in VC. It could wind up being a very viable free federated decentralized competitor to Twitter.
- Gregg H.
"Twitter is over capacity. Too many tweets! Please wait a moment and try again." Didn't know people had so much to say about Charlie Weis
- David Damore
It's been down for at least five minutes already. This is the longest I've seen the fail whale in months.
- Robert Scoble
so are you starting to get the shakes? How long can you go without tweeting?
- Ben Reierson
Responding to high error rate 21 seconds ago Starting about 10 minutes ago, we began experiencing a very high rate of errors and we are working on the underlying problem.
- David Damore
would be more productivity if there was no FF ( twitter backup )
- Mihai Secasiu
So what was trending when it went down?
- phil baumann
Dave - sure. Interesting use case. Definitely spam would be something Google would have to work on.
- phil baumann
not sure what was trending but there was quite a lot of activity on #Spill - in Oz our opposition party is having a meltdown and are spilling the leadership in 30 mins time
- Hilary Talbot
Phil: That was really interesting. Surprised that that shooting never gained traction on Twitter. Did it ever trend? Seems like it was all about Mr. Woods the past few days.... and shopping
- David Damore
Hi everyone. Hope you are all surviving without twitter lol. Great to see you all here.
- snysctt
Glad FF is the backup! </sarcasm> ...seriously though, I'd prefer people do one or the other. I don't reply to most of your comments because you're on Twitter and I refuse to get a Twitter account. Lame service.
- Scott Carmichael
"I agree about the Bloomsburys, though they might have had issues with being part of the public masses. I once drew connections between Woolf and podcasting and blogging: putting value on seeing the world and people in a decentralized, layered, multifaceted and varying-over-time way."
- Hilary Talbot
I love the reproductive metaphors here - reminds me of my recent posts on virile videos.
- Kevin Marks
The post is exactly right. The unfortunate thing too, is that like what we lost with @replies, it will probably win by attrition, since doing the work around is not as easy.
- Hilary Talbot
Twitter refines to create pure acceleration of a tweet across the graph...
- Cliff Gerrish
I can't settle my feelings that I'm being had, nice as the idea is. I'd have expected a media release with pics? The picture there looks like neither sage or gardenia, Drive's own photoshop most likely. And there doesn't seem any mention of it at Toyota.com. Toyota is in the middle of a flowery promotion for the 2010 Prius explained at Fast Company here http://bit.ly/6NuTf. But on looking further at the campaign media release http://bit.ly/2lF4Kp it looks like Fast Company is part of the promotion.
- Hilary Talbot
I don't know, but I would trust your judgement
- Hilary Talbot
Appreciate the support, Hil. Also getting a sore throat and it's making me cranky. Wouldn't it be nice if you could bring in an expert for 30 seconds to do the Marshall McLuhan validation thing in Annie Hall? That would be a good service to offer over the internet, wouldn't it? Get a stable of top-flight experts in a number of fields and hire them out expressly for things like this, not by the hour but by the minute so the poor worker bees like me could afford to haul them in.
- Amyloo
If they're putting a style tag on every link, then that should be in a stylesheet. Inline styles (i.e., using the style attribute within HTML markup) is generally considered sloppy.
- Dan MacTough
Seeing as how this will get cross-posted to Twitter and Facebook, I think I will respond by email. :-)
- Dan MacTough
I would agree that best practice would be for this to be in a stylesheet. However, it's far from uncommon to have inline styles on every link, especially when the html's generated by script. Sad to say poor practice ≠ uncommon.
- cori
Yeah, Cori, but why actually answer the question if the answer doesn't support your position? Answer a different question! :-)
- Dan MacTough
Funny dream: I asked how something was pronounced and my answerer sang the pronunciation. I learned this was typical for the alt society I was visiting. The pitch even had special diacritical marks in their linguistic notation, similar to musical notation. I didn't want to wake up and it's going to make me late for work and it was totally worth it
And we heard someone drinking coffee or something as well
- Pierre TAMISIER
Love these British accents and guys who sound like they're talking in tunnels
- Francine Hardaway
Just what I need. An explosion of data coming into the stream
- Francine Hardaway
Sorry, Robert. I'm typing. Then again, I'm not on the call... didn't realize it was disruptive ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I want tweetdeck or seesmic to be a full "real-time" web browser : with all real-time information in there : Twitter, Facebook... etc, but also Gmail, my RSS feeds,... etc
- Julien
Ken, that doesn't mean we can't hear you.
- Cliff Gerrish
Francine: I haven't seen any of that stuff on my stream yet. Probably has a big impact on search.
- Robert Scoble
Julien => it sounds like google wave what you want
- Pierre TAMISIER
Cliff: So you can hear the Blue Angels overhead too then?
- Ken Sheppardson
Keep looking, I have 10.01 via iTunes.
- Ken Morley
I know but the live format isnt always convenient from a timing perspective. some of us work! lol
- Jamie
Francine: I use them less and less, usually only for conferences. And even then I hate them.
- Robert Scoble
Oh, and people now spam by putting hashtags on irrelevant tweets
- Francine Hardaway
I need a visual map on how these things work or I can't adapt easily.
- Arnie Klaus
Bored dog just countersurfed in my kitchen, took the top off the crockpot and tried to take out the chicken! Thank goodness a fail!
- Francine Hardaway
Can someone please move the pointer out of the middle of the screen?
- Matthew Schrock
I like Brizzly's take on a wikified hashtag index right inside the client. It's got flaws but it's a good start. Would love to see an "official" hashtag wiki. Then again, Twitter doesn't feel like a wiki-friendly company. More on Brizzly at http://www.louisgray.com/live...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Laura's not odd -- just far more like everyone else
- Ian McGee
Matthew, we just have to live with it for this show.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert, I'm curious, are you aware of Cliqset? Some of the issues you've brought up are problems we're very interested and about to help solve.
- Darren
Yeah, I'm barely aware of Cliqset, I will be interested in trying that out. Probably this weekend.
- Robert Scoble
looks like we need a standard for these activities in a stream... oh wait there's one! What we need is an easy wait to be a "source" with existing clients (ie. making seesmic/tweedeck activity stream clients for many services, not just twitter/facebook)
- Sylvain Carle
Creating a simple and effective way for a social media publishing workflow (avoiding duplication) is very difficult at the moment.
- Mark Krynsky
Yea, the came in the client... but never further than that : Mosaic would have never been the web browser if it couldn't browse any website : http://blog.superfeedr.com/Real-ti...
- Julien
"Privacy" means "multi groups" while "public" means "one group", no ?
- Baptiste Cadiou
Just signing into Cliqset to see if it solves anything
- Francine Hardaway
Public means multiple scale free microcommunities.
- Cliff Gerrish
Public = you determine whether or not you're a member, Private = I do.
- Ken Sheppardson
Agree with Mark K - GR does a good job, feedly is a fine app which also provides suggestions.
- Dave Martin
I wrote about Twitter Times yesterday which Kevin just mentioned http://lifestreamblog.com/custom-... It's a great way to filter Twitter links by the people you follow on Twitter.
- Mark Krynsky
Well, it shouldn't have to be just your friends... I'd like to see some sort of wizard that let you build up groups, e.g. "Create a group of all the peole my friends follow, and show me trending topics among those people"
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, if Twitter rolls out lists soon and allows that data to be passed to the API Twitter Times could leverage that automatically.
- Mark Krynsky
I want to see the principal that Twitter Times has released to be created on a wider scale. Imagine that logic expanded across multiple social media services and the people you follow on each of them. Then mash the data across all of them. It become far more interesting and useful at that point.
- Mark Krynsky
Kevin, TwitterTimes looks like something actually useful.
- Francine Hardaway
Interesting, when you share on FF, the title is instead: Hybrid Books From Publishers Like Simon and Schuster Add Video and Web Features to Reading - NYTimes.com. A undeclared advertising feature perhaps?
- Hilary Talbot
from Bookmarklet
Scoble: Think of the browser. V1 of friendfeed was polling. You had to ask (by refreshing) whether there was new content. This version of friendfeed is push, where FriendFeed tells you when there's new stuff.
- Eric Florenzano
bear: right, so is Pubsubhubbub doing it right or wrong? And, is there a better way?
- Robert Scoble
the key part is that it's sending the content along with the item - this dramatically reduces client complexity
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
By "server", he means "hub", re: doing more work. The blogs do as much work as they do today (ie: ping the hub).
- Matt Mastracci
Scoble: Just remember everything I said to you 5 or 6 years ago when explaining why PubSub was useful and why "one-day" people would realize that real-time would be good. Nothing has changed.
- Bob Wyman
Someone ask Recordon if they've figured out how all this can relate to activitystrea.ms, the streams protocol Facebook, MySpace, and others support
- Jesse Stay
You'd have a hard time doing twitter over rssCloud - you'd have to be pulling the last 30 twitter messages after each tweet. That's 30x the traffic.
- Matt Mastracci
If you were designing this sort of system from scratch today, I can't imagine that you'd take a polling approach. It's legacy left over from page-based web browsing.
- Ken Sheppardson
This is a great fit for activitystrea.ms
- Kevin Marks
Kevin, that's what I was thinking - both being Atom, they ought to fit together well. I'd love to see a use-case in action.
- Jesse Stay
Yeah, activitystrea.ms works easily with Atom which can then be made real time using PSHB.
- David Recordon
robert - easily - Seesmic ran in the cloud until we finally needed more memory for the Java side
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
polling is useful as a fallback and to pull history when subscribing for the first time.
- Kevin Marks
Can we all just agree on "Hubbub" vs "PuSH" or saying "pubsubhubbub" every time... once and for all? :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd love to see Brett's opinion on why Twitter won't implement PSHB
- Jesse Stay
It requires a big player just to have the operations staff to maintain a high volume site
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jesse: I was just about to ask that.
- Robert Scoble
Ken, I understand the Hub part, but I can't help wonder if they just don't understand how it could help their API. They could use their own hub if they wanted.
- Jesse Stay
Are Hubbub and rssCloud the same thing? (...he asks, feigning innocence)
- Ken Sheppardson
The PSHB protocol is "simple" and fairly trivial implementations are possible. But, *any* single hub that monitors millions of feeds is going to need care and feeding. There will be *very large* hubs and their will be tiny hubs and they can all work together happily.
- Bob Wyman
I'd love to know if Brett or Brad have reached out to Twitter in any way
- Jesse Stay
Ken: no. Similar efforts but come from different histories. RSSCloud comes from Dave Winer's side of the house.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, Twitter wants other people to adopt their streaming API, if anything... they don't want to be yet another hub in some network
- Ken Sheppardson
rssCloud causes "thundering herd" problem on source blogs. The result can be a complete swamping of smaller publishers. This was the core "mistake" in rssCloud when it was first done 7 years ago and it remains the core error in that protocol.
- Bob Wyman
How about working with the OMB guys? Why PSHB vs. OMB protocol?
- Jesse Stay
yea, Twitter got burned with XMPP early in their engineering life so have a bad taste for it - they got burned not because of XMPP but because of other non-tech reasons
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jesse - IMO OMB should allow for atom payloads - then it could become part of PSHB by default
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
OMB could generate activitystrea.ms + PSHB too
- Kevin Marks
Thundering herd would be a *huge* problem if Twitter were to get decentralized. Oprah has 1MM+ followers - that's 20 tweets * 1k * 1MM subscribers on each tweet.
- Matt Mastracci
Celine Dion probably has a bigger brand than Opera, and she speaks French (ADD kicking in here)
- Jesse Stay
Bear: The issue wasn't XMPP the protocol, it was the software they used to implement it, the systems they built to feed it, the way they configured it, etc... XMPP isn't, a priori, any worse than the alternatives.
- Bob Wyman
OMB made a big mistake when they created their own protocol instead of just extending ATOM, IMO
- Eric Florenzano
Bob, yes - you said it much better than I did - I was trying to say just that
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
There was also the on again/off again relationship Twitter had with Gnip that confused the whole XMPP situation
- Ken Sheppardson
Yeah, I don't really see what OMB gets you these days given activitystrea.ms, Hubbub, etc. Seems redundant.
- Ken Sheppardson
We have an interesting interview with Gnip's founder on Building43 right now, by the way.
- Robert Scoble
@Matt: Right. with rssCloud, publishing becomes massively expensive if you get popular. rssCloud will, on the other hand, work well for people who aren't very popular and don't have many people interested in what they publish. For those folk, rssCloud is a potential solution... :-)
- Bob Wyman
oh cool - Gnip has some very cool tech behind the scenes - i'll have to queue that video
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ken - now that identi.ca/status.net has plugins - nothing prevents someone from wiring up a PHSB hook to the internal message queue for identi.ca/status.net
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
bear: You know if anybody's pushing activitystrea.ms out of a Laconica instance yet?
- Ken Sheppardson
I imagine that hooking up the twitter firehose to PSHB would be really easy and cheap, but it would likely violate the twitter firehose license.
- Matt Mastracci
kevin - yea, one of the most fun projects I did was to hook a sms/xmpp bot to a phone switch - it allowed you to control your vm/phone from xmpp and gave a lot of benefit
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
EVERYTHING cool violates the Twitter firehose rules :)
- Rob La Gesse
ken - there is some private branch work being done on that - but they are working on getting 0.9 out the door first
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@bear great - we should get you hooked up to the Ribbit APIs for telephony stuff and Seesmic
- Kevin Marks
Rob: FriendFeed figured out a way around the stupid Twitter rules.
- Robert Scoble
I think just knowing that Twitter offers a firehose violates it's terms of use.
- Ken Sheppardson
@kevin i would love to review them and make a pitch to the team about them
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - FF didn't try to share the firehose.
- Rob La Gesse
$50M for FF engineering and architecture team?
- Ankush Narula
@bear great, email me kevinmarks@gmail.com
- Kevin Marks
..and FF was able to position themselves as a Twitter client, in a sense, by pushing traffic to Twitter. They weren't just extracting value from the system. Plus, they probably asked nicely and sent cupcakes.
- Ken Sheppardson
Rob: sure it did, but it only shares it for people who have logged into FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: Twitter's rules are "don't create a shadow Twitter." As long as you don't try to do that they probably will let you play.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: of course every geek in the world wants to create a shadow Twitter. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Rob - once they produced the v2 api - then they started sharing the full stream. Until that point it was a partial stream
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - my point is - at the same time Twitter couldn't support more use of the firehose, they demanded the firehose NOT be re-broadcast. They don;t allow one to become a "node" of the stream. Which seems silly.
- Rob La Gesse
That's not entirely correct, Robert. Their other rule is "don't try to monetize something firehose based that we may at some point in the indefinite future think about monetizing ourselves"
- Ken Sheppardson
Rob: FriendFeed rebroadcasts the Twitter firehose, but only for the people who have signed onto FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Ah... right... "shadow Twitter". Gotcha :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert/Ken - I can understand why Twitter doesn't want downstream nodes passing on the stream - they lose access control
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - they are not. They are broadcasting back a VERY small portion of that stream, at best.
- Rob La Gesse
I think technically rebroadcasting is illegal according to the Twitter developer terms for the firehose
- Jesse Stay
Mike me too! Rob: it is a small portion because only a few hundred thousand people have signed onto FriendFeed, but if you could get everyone on Twitter to sign up here you'd see the entire firehose.
- Robert Scoble
In so far as fire-walled end-user applications can't receive pings, PSHB protocol mainly helps publishers and server-side aggregators like Google reader. Since this "last mile problem" is out-of-scope for PSHB, we can't yet expect any client explosion the likes that Twitter has seen. Any thoughts from the panel on the last mile problem? What would have to be done so that Tweetie, Seesmic, etc, might benefit from PSHB?
- Mason Lee
Robert - I disagree. I think if that happened the hose would be shut off.
- Rob La Gesse
Well, I don't think it's just rebroadcasting... there's also an issue around derivative/aggregations based on the firehose, firehose-based analytics, etc
- Ken Sheppardson
Why isn't Twitter ever a part of these conversations? I'd love to hear their viewpoint. You should get Ryan Sarver on one of these episodes.
- Jesse Stay
I believe they have an open invite :)
- Rob La Gesse
real time chat across different media and internet access levels - you pick what size/speed your want your conversation to happen at
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
The last time I saw Twitter participate in this sort of conversation was at BearHugCamp last fall.... and I suspect that left a bad taste in their mouth :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
@Mason If PSHB handles the backbone problem of providing fan-in and then fan-out for millions of feeds, it makes it massively easier for people to focus on building innovative front ends. There isn't much opportunity for creativity in solving the backend problem -- that's why it is reasonable to build something like PSHB today. The really fun problems are the things that should be relying on PSHB as a source of feeds. Let PSHB do the boring backend problem -- you should focus on innovative clients.
- Bob Wyman
There are certainly benefits to distribution and redundancy, but there *are* benefits to centralization.
- Ken Sheppardson
Kevin has the key point, getting what you want... Discovery of what you want would be next... these hubs will be learning patterns of what is wanted.
- Ben Hedrington
@Kevin: But, if I've got PSHB aggregating the feeds, it makes it really, really easy for me to build a server that *does* do track on the stuff that PSHB feeds to me.
- Bob Wyman
Hubbub allows some central search provider subscribe to everything, then people can subscribe to the search provider... but there just has to be some way to discover/broadcast which feeds are out there... this is an issue with SUP, btw... discovery. You have to know a feed's SUP ID first.
- Ken Sheppardson
I guess I wasn't being 2010 enough. This is the chat feed. :-)
- Robert Scoble
So you mean if you want to do research or market research you will pay
- Francine Hardaway
@bobwyman sure, but that isn't the usecase Robert says he wants; he needs a mass crawl for that
- Kevin Marks
Francine: and restaurants will pay $10 a month to have their own Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
I remember the Microsoft guy at BearHugCamp last fall was wondering why anybody would ever want to build a Track system, rather than just leave it to Google...
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm a set of keywords, I'm looking for a set of keywords
- Arnie Klaus
Live regexp for big pipes sounds like a $1Billion dollar business.
- Cliff Gerrish
@kevin, I dont' see the distinction. I can do track based on all that flows through the PSHB hubs. That's semantically equivelant to doing a "mass crawl"
- Bob Wyman
we've been doing this stuff with MOM in financial market feeds - topic subscriptions, channels, etc.
- Ankush Narula
And what will they really do with it? That they don't do now
- Francine Hardaway
You can have one aggregator that controls the entire feed, or you can set the feed loose and let several companies aggregate from those. Same data, no single point of control.
- Rob La Gesse
Francine: I can see a lot you would do if you had your own branded Twitter clone.
- Robert Scoble
Every Hubbub hub could/should provide a local firehose to anyone who wants it.
- Ken Sheppardson
distributed track is possible. Centralization only makes it easier.
- Bob Wyman
the fun happens when PSHB allows for disparate streams to have firehoses - then all the search/filter geeks can do their thing
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Scoble: "history" is irrelevant to any system doing a real-time track. All you care about is the future -- not the past. Past is for "retrospective search," "track" is about "prospective search".
- Bob Wyman
@bobwyman disagree - you need both flow and past; they complement one another
- Kevin Marks
bear: I think if you look at some of the newer Twitter web clients, they're basically a FriendFeed-like UI on top of the Twitter message bus.
- Ken Sheppardson
twitter retweet is going to make a lot of folks angry - not that I have any inside info or anything
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Scoble: Of course you want both. I would never question that. The two halves of search compliment each other. Only retrospective or only prospective is only half the solution. Most of the systems you've ever used have only solved half the problem .
- Bob Wyman
bear: Justine Bateman's already mad about it. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Bob: agreed. FriendFeed came close to solving both.
- Robert Scoble
The problem comes in ownership of the resource. In the decentralized web, we share the pipes in neutral fashion. But, "commercial" people tend to violate net neutrality rules. Like Twitter deciding who can and cannot read their data. That is a net neutrality failure...
- Bob Wyman
@Ankush I'm seriously hoping that the new hires at Facebook help steer them away from the dark side :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
So to argue in Twitter and Facebook's defense, they're not just a neutral pass through. They're adding value to the system, and they'd argue that they shouldn't be "forced" to just let that walk out the back door.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd like to see Dave Winer's response to that
- Jesse Stay
@ankush , Folk don't always agree with me. But, I believe that users should control access to their data and they should make decisions based on what is in their interest -- the people who run the services that people use should *not* be the ones deciding what access controls will be enforced.
- Bob Wyman
so do you see there being an APi to Google's crawl for use in this, Bob?
- Kevin Marks
Jesse: I'm sure you will (see the response)
- Ken Sheppardson
Mike: if Facebook doesn't get its public service act together they will see themselves becoming the next MySpace. In the early adopter audience it already is.
- Robert Scoble
Bob/Mike - i'm in full agreement - but when you're building a service that has zero monetization (twitter) - what else can your valuation be based on other than your core data assets?
- Ankush Narula
I think Facebook is getting it together. Connect is their answer, but they're also slowly opening up search as well.
- Jesse Stay
Of course they have FriendFeed now to keep the early adopters inside the Facebook tent, but there's a lot more early adopters on Twitter than here.
- Robert Scoble
@robert agree completely - I had already zero'd out my profile and moved to FF - but the FF folks moving to FB made me give them more time
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bob/Mike - as for FB - I hope so too
- Ankush Narula
Of course, you are better off doing it on Rackspace :)
- Rob La Gesse
Don't build services that have no legitimate path to profit. In that case, you should be building protocols whose costs can be shared by the community and then build your business by creating the best tools for using the protocol.
- Bob Wyman
popping in to listen to RL Gilmor Gang stream #gillmorgang
- Del_
Bob - Sounds ideal - but knowing the history of Twitter - I suspect they were much more concerned about uptime rather than the public good
- Ankush Narula
robert and rob: speaking of using Rackspace, Cartus put my contract on hold while they figure out their needs
- David Stratton
activitystrea.ms is yet another endpoint that can be connected to PSHB
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Ankush I don't know who was thinking what. But, I do know that those who focus on "public good" typically write protocols, not walled garden closed sites.
- Bob Wyman
I LOVED Tony Robbins, I was expecting to hate him so that was a pleasant surprise, best speaker I have ever seen. Such a stage presence. amazing/
- Loic Le Meur
John is in charge of Twitter's Streaming API, FYI
- Jesse Stay
I totally didn't realize John had a FriendFeed account - awesome
- Jesse Stay
I skimmed most of the conversation. I didn't see any explicit questions to respond to, or that haven't been addressed on the twitter-dev list about pubhub...
- John Kalucki
have you looked at PubSubHubbub John?
- Kevin Marks
As far as the Streaming API rules, we'll work on them. The user TOS and API rules just went out last week.
- John Kalucki
John - except that a lot of the folks who were asking don't regularly read the twitter dev list :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
how about activitystrea.ms support, John? You going to write the shim or do we have to?
- Kevin Marks
Activitystrea.ms support seems unlikely. A shim would probably be seen as syndication.
- John Kalucki
Overall, the direction is towards exposing more data types, more predicate types, and supporting more use cases. Format and protocol support, while making developer's lives easier, isn't as high priority as some of the proposed features we're considering.
- John Kalucki
That's too bad John - hard to be the "pulse of the internet" if you're not supporting open standards
- Jesse Stay
Thanks. Love this line: "We thought Twitter would be the best thing ever for junior high and high school kids. It turned out to be the best thing ever for old Unix hackers with beards."
- Amyloo
Me too! I read a little about his next gig Squirrel a while ago; think he is not yet done stirring up the world.
- Hilary Talbot
Cool. The pages and drawings shown look so ordered and beautiful, if, as I understood, they were done while he was tangling with it all. An aside: did you see the gratuitous promo links in there?!
- Hilary Talbot
It's kind of you to ask! My ideal time would be about 2pm or 3pm Pacific, but anytime from then through to 8pm or even beyond would be good.
- Hilary Talbot
We're still experimenting with ideal replay times. NGL is an international network, so we need to take time zones into account.
- Cliff Gerrish
Thanks Cliff. I'm Eastern Standard Australian time (though I was converting to your times above) if that helps in your deliberations.
- Hilary Talbot