I can't settle my feelings that I'm being had, nice as the idea is. I'd have expected a media release with pics? The picture there looks like neither sage or gardenia, Drive's own photoshop most likely. And there doesn't seem any mention of it at Toyota.com. Toyota is in the middle of a flowery promotion for the 2010 Prius explained at Fast Company here http://bit.ly/6NuTf. But on looking further at the campaign media release http://bit.ly/2lF4Kp it looks like Fast Company is part of the promotion.
- Hilary Talbot
I don't know, but I would trust your judgement
- Hilary Talbot
Appreciate the support, Hil. Also getting a sore throat and it's making me cranky. Wouldn't it be nice if you could bring in an expert for 30 seconds to do the Marshall McLuhan validation thing in Annie Hall? That would be a good service to offer over the internet, wouldn't it? Get a stable of top-flight experts in a number of fields and hire them out expressly for things like this, not by the hour but by the minute so the poor worker bees like me could afford to haul them in.
- Amyloo
If they're putting a style tag on every link, then that should be in a stylesheet. Inline styles (i.e., using the style attribute within HTML markup) is generally considered sloppy.
- Dan MacTough
Seeing as how this will get cross-posted to Twitter and Facebook, I think I will respond by email. :-)
- Dan MacTough
I would agree that best practice would be for this to be in a stylesheet. However, it's far from uncommon to have inline styles on every link, especially when the html's generated by script. Sad to say poor practice ≠ uncommon.
- cori
Yeah, Cori, but why actually answer the question if the answer doesn't support your position? Answer a different question! :-)
- Dan MacTough
Funny dream: I asked how something was pronounced and my answerer sang the pronunciation. I learned this was typical for the alt society I was visiting. The pitch even had special diacritical marks in their linguistic notation, similar to musical notation. I didn't want to wake up and it's going to make me late for work and it was totally worth it
And we heard someone drinking coffee or something as well
- Pierre TAMISIER
Love these British accents and guys who sound like they're talking in tunnels
- Francine Hardaway
Just what I need. An explosion of data coming into the stream
- Francine Hardaway
Sorry, Robert. I'm typing. Then again, I'm not on the call... didn't realize it was disruptive ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I want tweetdeck or seesmic to be a full "real-time" web browser : with all real-time information in there : Twitter, Facebook... etc, but also Gmail, my RSS feeds,... etc
- Julien
Ken, that doesn't mean we can't hear you.
- Cliff Gerrish
Francine: I haven't seen any of that stuff on my stream yet. Probably has a big impact on search.
- Robert Scoble
Julien => it sounds like google wave what you want
- Pierre TAMISIER
Cliff: So you can hear the Blue Angels overhead too then?
- Ken Sheppardson
Keep looking, I have 10.01 via iTunes.
- Ken Morley
I know but the live format isnt always convenient from a timing perspective. some of us work! lol
- Jamie
Francine: I use them less and less, usually only for conferences. And even then I hate them.
- Robert Scoble
Oh, and people now spam by putting hashtags on irrelevant tweets
- Francine Hardaway
I need a visual map on how these things work or I can't adapt easily.
- Arnie Klaus
Bored dog just countersurfed in my kitchen, took the top off the crockpot and tried to take out the chicken! Thank goodness a fail!
- Francine Hardaway
Can someone please move the pointer out of the middle of the screen?
- Matthew Schrock
I like Brizzly's take on a wikified hashtag index right inside the client. It's got flaws but it's a good start. Would love to see an "official" hashtag wiki. Then again, Twitter doesn't feel like a wiki-friendly company. More on Brizzly at http://www.louisgray.com/live...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Laura's not odd -- just far more like everyone else
- Ian McGee
Matthew, we just have to live with it for this show.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert, I'm curious, are you aware of Cliqset? Some of the issues you've brought up are problems we're very interested and about to help solve.
- Darren
Yeah, I'm barely aware of Cliqset, I will be interested in trying that out. Probably this weekend.
- Robert Scoble
looks like we need a standard for these activities in a stream... oh wait there's one! What we need is an easy wait to be a "source" with existing clients (ie. making seesmic/tweedeck activity stream clients for many services, not just twitter/facebook)
- Sylvain Carle
Creating a simple and effective way for a social media publishing workflow (avoiding duplication) is very difficult at the moment.
- Mark Krynsky
Yea, the came in the client... but never further than that : Mosaic would have never been the web browser if it couldn't browse any website : http://blog.superfeedr.com/Real-ti...
- Julien
"Privacy" means "multi groups" while "public" means "one group", no ?
- Baptiste Cadiou
Just signing into Cliqset to see if it solves anything
- Francine Hardaway
Public means multiple scale free microcommunities.
- Cliff Gerrish
Public = you determine whether or not you're a member, Private = I do.
- Ken Sheppardson
Agree with Mark K - GR does a good job, feedly is a fine app which also provides suggestions.
- Dave Martin
I wrote about Twitter Times yesterday which Kevin just mentioned http://lifestreamblog.com/custom-... It's a great way to filter Twitter links by the people you follow on Twitter.
- Mark Krynsky
Well, it shouldn't have to be just your friends... I'd like to see some sort of wizard that let you build up groups, e.g. "Create a group of all the peole my friends follow, and show me trending topics among those people"
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, if Twitter rolls out lists soon and allows that data to be passed to the API Twitter Times could leverage that automatically.
- Mark Krynsky
I want to see the principal that Twitter Times has released to be created on a wider scale. Imagine that logic expanded across multiple social media services and the people you follow on each of them. Then mash the data across all of them. It become far more interesting and useful at that point.
- Mark Krynsky
Kevin, TwitterTimes looks like something actually useful.
- Francine Hardaway
Interesting, when you share on FF, the title is instead: Hybrid Books From Publishers Like Simon and Schuster Add Video and Web Features to Reading - NYTimes.com. A undeclared advertising feature perhaps?
- Hilary Talbot
from Bookmarklet
Scoble: Think of the browser. V1 of friendfeed was polling. You had to ask (by refreshing) whether there was new content. This version of friendfeed is push, where FriendFeed tells you when there's new stuff.
- Eric Florenzano
bear: right, so is Pubsubhubbub doing it right or wrong? And, is there a better way?
- Robert Scoble
the key part is that it's sending the content along with the item - this dramatically reduces client complexity
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
By "server", he means "hub", re: doing more work. The blogs do as much work as they do today (ie: ping the hub).
- Matt Mastracci
Scoble: Just remember everything I said to you 5 or 6 years ago when explaining why PubSub was useful and why "one-day" people would realize that real-time would be good. Nothing has changed.
- Bob Wyman
Someone ask Recordon if they've figured out how all this can relate to activitystrea.ms, the streams protocol Facebook, MySpace, and others support
- Jesse Stay
You'd have a hard time doing twitter over rssCloud - you'd have to be pulling the last 30 twitter messages after each tweet. That's 30x the traffic.
- Matt Mastracci
If you were designing this sort of system from scratch today, I can't imagine that you'd take a polling approach. It's legacy left over from page-based web browsing.
- Ken Sheppardson
This is a great fit for activitystrea.ms
- Kevin Marks
Kevin, that's what I was thinking - both being Atom, they ought to fit together well. I'd love to see a use-case in action.
- Jesse Stay
Yeah, activitystrea.ms works easily with Atom which can then be made real time using PSHB.
- David Recordon
robert - easily - Seesmic ran in the cloud until we finally needed more memory for the Java side
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
polling is useful as a fallback and to pull history when subscribing for the first time.
- Kevin Marks
Can we all just agree on "Hubbub" vs "PuSH" or saying "pubsubhubbub" every time... once and for all? :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd love to see Brett's opinion on why Twitter won't implement PSHB
- Jesse Stay
It requires a big player just to have the operations staff to maintain a high volume site
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jesse: I was just about to ask that.
- Robert Scoble
Ken, I understand the Hub part, but I can't help wonder if they just don't understand how it could help their API. They could use their own hub if they wanted.
- Jesse Stay
Are Hubbub and rssCloud the same thing? (...he asks, feigning innocence)
- Ken Sheppardson
The PSHB protocol is "simple" and fairly trivial implementations are possible. But, *any* single hub that monitors millions of feeds is going to need care and feeding. There will be *very large* hubs and their will be tiny hubs and they can all work together happily.
- Bob Wyman
I'd love to know if Brett or Brad have reached out to Twitter in any way
- Jesse Stay
Ken: no. Similar efforts but come from different histories. RSSCloud comes from Dave Winer's side of the house.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, Twitter wants other people to adopt their streaming API, if anything... they don't want to be yet another hub in some network
- Ken Sheppardson
rssCloud causes "thundering herd" problem on source blogs. The result can be a complete swamping of smaller publishers. This was the core "mistake" in rssCloud when it was first done 7 years ago and it remains the core error in that protocol.
- Bob Wyman
How about working with the OMB guys? Why PSHB vs. OMB protocol?
- Jesse Stay
yea, Twitter got burned with XMPP early in their engineering life so have a bad taste for it - they got burned not because of XMPP but because of other non-tech reasons
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
OMB could generate activitystrea.ms + PSHB too
- Kevin Marks
Jesse - IMO OMB should allow for atom payloads - then it could become part of PSHB by default
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Thundering herd would be a *huge* problem if Twitter were to get decentralized. Oprah has 1MM+ followers - that's 20 tweets * 1k * 1MM subscribers on each tweet.
- Matt Mastracci
Celine Dion probably has a bigger brand than Opera, and she speaks French (ADD kicking in here)
- Jesse Stay
Bear: The issue wasn't XMPP the protocol, it was the software they used to implement it, the systems they built to feed it, the way they configured it, etc... XMPP isn't, a priori, any worse than the alternatives.
- Bob Wyman
OMB made a big mistake when they created their own protocol instead of just extending ATOM, IMO
- Eric Florenzano
Bob, yes - you said it much better than I did - I was trying to say just that
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
There was also the on again/off again relationship Twitter had with Gnip that confused the whole XMPP situation
- Ken Sheppardson
Yeah, I don't really see what OMB gets you these days given activitystrea.ms, Hubbub, etc. Seems redundant.
- Ken Sheppardson
We have an interesting interview with Gnip's founder on Building43 right now, by the way.
- Robert Scoble
@Matt: Right. with rssCloud, publishing becomes massively expensive if you get popular. rssCloud will, on the other hand, work well for people who aren't very popular and don't have many people interested in what they publish. For those folk, rssCloud is a potential solution... :-)
- Bob Wyman
oh cool - Gnip has some very cool tech behind the scenes - i'll have to queue that video
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ken - now that identi.ca/status.net has plugins - nothing prevents someone from wiring up a PHSB hook to the internal message queue for identi.ca/status.net
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
bear: You know if anybody's pushing activitystrea.ms out of a Laconica instance yet?
- Ken Sheppardson
I imagine that hooking up the twitter firehose to PSHB would be really easy and cheap, but it would likely violate the twitter firehose license.
- Matt Mastracci
kevin - yea, one of the most fun projects I did was to hook a sms/xmpp bot to a phone switch - it allowed you to control your vm/phone from xmpp and gave a lot of benefit
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
EVERYTHING cool violates the Twitter firehose rules :)
- Rob La Gesse
ken - there is some private branch work being done on that - but they are working on getting 0.9 out the door first
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@bear great - we should get you hooked up to the Ribbit APIs for telephony stuff and Seesmic
- Kevin Marks
Rob: FriendFeed figured out a way around the stupid Twitter rules.
- Robert Scoble
I think just knowing that Twitter offers a firehose violates it's terms of use.
- Ken Sheppardson
@kevin i would love to review them and make a pitch to the team about them
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - FF didn't try to share the firehose.
- Rob La Gesse
$50M for FF engineering and architecture team?
- Ankush Narula
@bear great, email me kevinmarks@gmail.com
- Kevin Marks
..and FF was able to position themselves as a Twitter client, in a sense, by pushing traffic to Twitter. They weren't just extracting value from the system. Plus, they probably asked nicely and sent cupcakes.
- Ken Sheppardson
Rob: sure it did, but it only shares it for people who have logged into FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: Twitter's rules are "don't create a shadow Twitter." As long as you don't try to do that they probably will let you play.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: of course every geek in the world wants to create a shadow Twitter. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Rob - once they produced the v2 api - then they started sharing the full stream. Until that point it was a partial stream
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - my point is - at the same time Twitter couldn't support more use of the firehose, they demanded the firehose NOT be re-broadcast. They don;t allow one to become a "node" of the stream. Which seems silly.
- Rob La Gesse
That's not entirely correct, Robert. Their other rule is "don't try to monetize something firehose based that we may at some point in the indefinite future think about monetizing ourselves"
- Ken Sheppardson
Rob: FriendFeed rebroadcasts the Twitter firehose, but only for the people who have signed onto FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Ah... right... "shadow Twitter". Gotcha :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert/Ken - I can understand why Twitter doesn't want downstream nodes passing on the stream - they lose access control
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - they are not. They are broadcasting back a VERY small portion of that stream, at best.
- Rob La Gesse
I think technically rebroadcasting is illegal according to the Twitter developer terms for the firehose
- Jesse Stay
Mike me too! Rob: it is a small portion because only a few hundred thousand people have signed onto FriendFeed, but if you could get everyone on Twitter to sign up here you'd see the entire firehose.
- Robert Scoble
In so far as fire-walled end-user applications can't receive pings, PSHB protocol mainly helps publishers and server-side aggregators like Google reader. Since this "last mile problem" is out-of-scope for PSHB, we can't yet expect any client explosion the likes that Twitter has seen. Any thoughts from the panel on the last mile problem? What would have to be done so that Tweetie, Seesmic, etc, might benefit from PSHB?
- Mason Lee
Robert - I disagree. I think if that happened the hose would be shut off.
- Rob La Gesse
Well, I don't think it's just rebroadcasting... there's also an issue around derivative/aggregations based on the firehose, firehose-based analytics, etc
- Ken Sheppardson
Why isn't Twitter ever a part of these conversations? I'd love to hear their viewpoint. You should get Ryan Sarver on one of these episodes.
- Jesse Stay
I believe they have an open invite :)
- Rob La Gesse
real time chat across different media and internet access levels - you pick what size/speed your want your conversation to happen at
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
The last time I saw Twitter participate in this sort of conversation was at BearHugCamp last fall.... and I suspect that left a bad taste in their mouth :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
@Mason If PSHB handles the backbone problem of providing fan-in and then fan-out for millions of feeds, it makes it massively easier for people to focus on building innovative front ends. There isn't much opportunity for creativity in solving the backend problem -- that's why it is reasonable to build something like PSHB today. The really fun problems are the things that should be relying on PSHB as a source of feeds. Let PSHB do the boring backend problem -- you should focus on innovative clients.
- Bob Wyman
There are certainly benefits to distribution and redundancy, but there *are* benefits to centralization.
- Ken Sheppardson
Kevin has the key point, getting what you want... Discovery of what you want would be next... these hubs will be learning patterns of what is wanted.
- Ben Hedrington
@Kevin: But, if I've got PSHB aggregating the feeds, it makes it really, really easy for me to build a server that *does* do track on the stuff that PSHB feeds to me.
- Bob Wyman
Hubbub allows some central search provider subscribe to everything, then people can subscribe to the search provider... but there just has to be some way to discover/broadcast which feeds are out there... this is an issue with SUP, btw... discovery. You have to know a feed's SUP ID first.
- Ken Sheppardson
I guess I wasn't being 2010 enough. This is the chat feed. :-)
- Robert Scoble
So you mean if you want to do research or market research you will pay
- Francine Hardaway
@bobwyman sure, but that isn't the usecase Robert says he wants; he needs a mass crawl for that
- Kevin Marks
Francine: and restaurants will pay $10 a month to have their own Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
I remember the Microsoft guy at BearHugCamp last fall was wondering why anybody would ever want to build a Track system, rather than just leave it to Google...
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm a set of keywords, I'm looking for a set of keywords
- Arnie Klaus
Live regexp for big pipes sounds like a $1Billion dollar business.
- Cliff Gerrish
we've been doing this stuff with MOM in financial market feeds - topic subscriptions, channels, etc.
- Ankush Narula
@kevin, I dont' see the distinction. I can do track based on all that flows through the PSHB hubs. That's semantically equivelant to doing a "mass crawl"
- Bob Wyman
And what will they really do with it? That they don't do now
- Francine Hardaway
You can have one aggregator that controls the entire feed, or you can set the feed loose and let several companies aggregate from those. Same data, no single point of control.
- Rob La Gesse
Francine: I can see a lot you would do if you had your own branded Twitter clone.
- Robert Scoble
Every Hubbub hub could/should provide a local firehose to anyone who wants it.
- Ken Sheppardson
distributed track is possible. Centralization only makes it easier.
- Bob Wyman
the fun happens when PSHB allows for disparate streams to have firehoses - then all the search/filter geeks can do their thing
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Scoble: "history" is irrelevant to any system doing a real-time track. All you care about is the future -- not the past. Past is for "retrospective search," "track" is about "prospective search".
- Bob Wyman
@bobwyman disagree - you need both flow and past; they complement one another
- Kevin Marks
bear: I think if you look at some of the newer Twitter web clients, they're basically a FriendFeed-like UI on top of the Twitter message bus.
- Ken Sheppardson
twitter retweet is going to make a lot of folks angry - not that I have any inside info or anything
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Scoble: Of course you want both. I would never question that. The two halves of search compliment each other. Only retrospective or only prospective is only half the solution. Most of the systems you've ever used have only solved half the problem .
- Bob Wyman
bear: Justine Bateman's already mad about it. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Bob: agreed. FriendFeed came close to solving both.
- Robert Scoble
The problem comes in ownership of the resource. In the decentralized web, we share the pipes in neutral fashion. But, "commercial" people tend to violate net neutrality rules. Like Twitter deciding who can and cannot read their data. That is a net neutrality failure...
- Bob Wyman
@Ankush I'm seriously hoping that the new hires at Facebook help steer them away from the dark side :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
So to argue in Twitter and Facebook's defense, they're not just a neutral pass through. They're adding value to the system, and they'd argue that they shouldn't be "forced" to just let that walk out the back door.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd like to see Dave Winer's response to that
- Jesse Stay
@ankush , Folk don't always agree with me. But, I believe that users should control access to their data and they should make decisions based on what is in their interest -- the people who run the services that people use should *not* be the ones deciding what access controls will be enforced.
- Bob Wyman
so do you see there being an APi to Google's crawl for use in this, Bob?
- Kevin Marks
Jesse: I'm sure you will (see the response)
- Ken Sheppardson
Mike: if Facebook doesn't get its public service act together they will see themselves becoming the next MySpace. In the early adopter audience it already is.
- Robert Scoble
Bob/Mike - i'm in full agreement - but when you're building a service that has zero monetization (twitter) - what else can your valuation be based on other than your core data assets?
- Ankush Narula
I think Facebook is getting it together. Connect is their answer, but they're also slowly opening up search as well.
- Jesse Stay
Of course they have FriendFeed now to keep the early adopters inside the Facebook tent, but there's a lot more early adopters on Twitter than here.
- Robert Scoble
@robert agree completely - I had already zero'd out my profile and moved to FF - but the FF folks moving to FB made me give them more time
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bob/Mike - as for FB - I hope so too
- Ankush Narula
Of course, you are better off doing it on Rackspace :)
- Rob La Gesse
Don't build services that have no legitimate path to profit. In that case, you should be building protocols whose costs can be shared by the community and then build your business by creating the best tools for using the protocol.
- Bob Wyman
popping in to listen to RL Gilmor Gang stream #gillmorgang
- Del_
Bob - Sounds ideal - but knowing the history of Twitter - I suspect they were much more concerned about uptime rather than the public good
- Ankush Narula
robert and rob: speaking of using Rackspace, Cartus put my contract on hold while they figure out their needs
- David Stratton
activitystrea.ms is yet another endpoint that can be connected to PSHB
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Ankush I don't know who was thinking what. But, I do know that those who focus on "public good" typically write protocols, not walled garden closed sites.
- Bob Wyman
I LOVED Tony Robbins, I was expecting to hate him so that was a pleasant surprise, best speaker I have ever seen. Such a stage presence. amazing/
- Loic Le Meur
John is in charge of Twitter's Streaming API, FYI
- Jesse Stay
I totally didn't realize John had a FriendFeed account - awesome
- Jesse Stay
I skimmed most of the conversation. I didn't see any explicit questions to respond to, or that haven't been addressed on the twitter-dev list about pubhub...
- John Kalucki
have you looked at PubSubHubbub John?
- Kevin Marks
As far as the Streaming API rules, we'll work on them. The user TOS and API rules just went out last week.
- John Kalucki
John - except that a lot of the folks who were asking don't regularly read the twitter dev list :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
how about activitystrea.ms support, John? You going to write the shim or do we have to?
- Kevin Marks
Activitystrea.ms support seems unlikely. A shim would probably be seen as syndication.
- John Kalucki
Overall, the direction is towards exposing more data types, more predicate types, and supporting more use cases. Format and protocol support, while making developer's lives easier, isn't as high priority as some of the proposed features we're considering.
- John Kalucki
That's too bad John - hard to be the "pulse of the internet" if you're not supporting open standards
- Jesse Stay
Thanks. Love this line: "We thought Twitter would be the best thing ever for junior high and high school kids. It turned out to be the best thing ever for old Unix hackers with beards."
- Amyloo
Me too! I read a little about his next gig Squirrel a while ago; think he is not yet done stirring up the world.
- Hilary Talbot
Cool. The pages and drawings shown look so ordered and beautiful, if, as I understood, they were done while he was tangling with it all. An aside: did you see the gratuitous promo links in there?!
- Hilary Talbot
It's kind of you to ask! My ideal time would be about 2pm or 3pm Pacific, but anytime from then through to 8pm or even beyond would be good.
- Hilary Talbot
We're still experimenting with ideal replay times. NGL is an international network, so we need to take time zones into account.
- Cliff Gerrish
Thanks Cliff. I'm Eastern Standard Australian time (though I was converting to your times above) if that helps in your deliberations.
- Hilary Talbot
so what you are saying is that we need a public option, if medicare and medicaid needs to come into the debate
- Eran Even-Kesef
it's not so much the republicans - but the lobbyists for the health insurance companies, keep in mind that many blue dog Dems are the problem
- Michael Pinto
yes a few blue dogs and ALL republicans are opposed
- Eran Even-Kesef
Failing the senate 60 they will be pushed into reconciliation
- Dave Martin
Phil? Explain, specifically, why you feel a free market is so essential for our HEALTH? We discuss this like there's some mystery about alternatives. Canada's system is less than perfect, but try finding an unhappy Canadian. You can't. Why is that? Why do THEY make it work, but we can't? Explain that to us. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009...
- Shoq
Rudy is just adding noise to the debate
- Michael Pinto
Triggers are the mid-term cycle hedge
- Dave Martin
Peter B Lewis's Progressive Insurance offers thousands of employees great plans for under $100 a month. Now why can HE do that, and not the rest of our employers? I don't know the answer, but I suspect it's because it's an HONEST insurance company working on volume, with constraints that prevent them from gambling with the pool of money. A public option can work the same way, and that's why the Insurance industry simply won't stand for a public option. Fairness is unfair competition to them.
- Shoq
those 10 points are very real if you're running in 2010
- Michael Pinto
Triggers are bullshit. Before a trigger could ever kick in, they'd change the rules. It just plays into the industry's hegemony over the process.
- Shoq
Why can't we address the people in need through our existing Social Security system? If you are in need of healthcare, apply for it through social security. We can put into place some income guidelines, etc. pretty easily.
- Stephen M. Otto
Phil. Republicans have been saying that for 60 years
- Shoq
"dealing with the people who most need it" would just mean dumping more money into SS and Medicaid, no? Or are we talking about some new benefits program? If the problem is systemic, you can't just treat a symptom.
- Ken Sheppardson
there's not universal support for that from health insurance companies
- Michael Pinto
You guys are so last year. Mark Foley just got his own radio show :)
- Shoq
Having not read the entire blondetwit post, I'll just point out that I've always thought "health insurance for pre-existing conditions" is sort of an oxymoron.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: I am confident that the other issues can be addressed by removing gov restrictions from insurance...let insurance be offered across state boundaries, increase competition. If you find yourself without the ability to get coverage due to a pre-existing condition, this could also be addressed by applying for coverage through this suggested extension of social security. Also: tort reform.
- Stephen M. Otto
Getting a show means very little, the ball game is attracting, sustaining a competitive audience; stay tuned ;-)
- Dave Martin
Rob La Gasse, has the most reasonable argument, dealing with those who are currently uninsured should be the first priority
- Eran Even-Kesef
Stephen: I was just addressing Rob's comment that we just deal with the folks who most need it and not try to fix it all at the same time. The fundamental problem, BTW is we have lots of problems that can't be solved in 4 to 8 years. Our system is unable to deal with stuff that requires consistent objectives and approaches over a longer period.
- Ken Sheppardson
tort reform would prove to be a third-rail issue for the dems in the mid-terms
- Dave Martin
Cost controls are simply bullshit. They've talked about cost controls for 40 years. Medicare has NO ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE PRICES. WTF are you talking about?
- Shoq
Eran: we have an infrastructure in place for this. It's called Social Security, complete with Administrative Law Judges, case workers, etc.
- Stephen M. Otto
People want access to the current healthcare our country has today...we've got to be careful that we don't change the quality of care while providing access...
- Robert J Taylor
Dave. more bullshit from the past. Medical malpractice is not even 1% of medical costs. That's anoteher lie to give the right more favors for OTHER business
- Shoq
Eran - and we have borrowed heavily against it.
- Rob La Gesse
Shoq: how can you quantify defensive medicine?
- Stephen M. Otto
So when can I listen to this? Let me guess, video only? I wonder if a bootleg will show up…
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
Robert. our quality of care is not good compared to many other countries. We provide quality specialty care and suboptimal primary care and care for chronic disease.
- Francine Hardaway
Shoq - you're looking at it from a med costs pov when it's really important b/c it harms providers by reaching prohibitive levels of staying in business - ask any physician
- Dave Martin
The answer to defensive medicine is not to suddenly remove any remaining safeguards thee are. The vast majority of doctors are never sued. This is another distraction. Defensive medicine is just the latest rhetoric used by the AMA to dazzle the nation with bullshit.
- Shoq
You mean the physicians who own most of the MRI facilities in DC? When you have conflicts like that, you dont' deserve to be at the table. The entire system is bass akwards. It's not about health care. It's about profit-care
- Shoq
We talk about thisproblem as if the problem has no solution. We are the ONLY major nation without one, and its' simply absurd.
- Shoq
Shoq: You are right we are the only industrialized nation with out one, but we have a history of doing things differently, not always the best way.
- Eran Even-Kesef
Shoq, yeah it's a damn shame we can't come up with a way to totally mess over all the shareholders of those profitable companies, esp those stupid investors that are on fixed incomes depending on distributions.
- Dave Martin
Eran, and that history is coming up pretty short. It's time to find another way. Because as steve points out, we can't afford this.
- Shoq
These shareholders were oblivious for years, allowing their boards to run us into the ground. At this point, it's just one more bubble to burst, as this country escapes the mass delusions of the past 30 years. You cannot run a nation out of balance, where most of the wealth and justice trickles up to the top, and only the shit trickles down. It cannot continue like this, and no 9th...
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- Shoq
I agree and I argue that the only solution is a universal healthcare model, unfortunatly, to many of us are blind, miss-informed and just plain greedy. Therefore a gradual approach that Rob suggested seems to be the only practical alternative.
- Eran Even-Kesef
By the way we have a simlair situation in our education system, where there is a 50% dropout rate in the urban areas, this is can also be directly corelated to the healthcare system, and for that matter an example of our parallel tiered societies. Gosh I am sounding very radical, even though I am not.
- Eran Even-Kesef
While we are fixing/rebooting/rethinking things, might as well throw down on education and the justice/penal systems
- Dave Martin
Dave-I agree with you, there is much that needs fixing
- Eran Even-Kesef
Getting meta here...this was a good show with good discussion -- good conversation in the chat, too. NOT typical for on-line politically-charged forums!
- Robert J Taylor
Hey everyone, next time I'll figure out how to comment and be on the show at the same time. My little muddled head couldn't multitask today, but I had a great time and really enjoyed the back and forth. I'd like to give Phil Windley huge kudos for having a great counterpoint and reasonable approach. thanks to all who listened, too.
- Karoli
I agree with Karoli. Reasonable, sane Republicans seem to be an endangered species. I'm sorry my contributions were so sparse. Tech problems on my end kept punting me from the call.
- Michael Markman
Tom Milsom (@hexachordal) has posted lyrics to the healthcare song he sang on newsgang live earlier today. http://bit.ly/ptEBO Says if there's demand, he'll post a recording, too.
- Michael Markman
Michael, I would LOVE a recording. That thing would be completely viral. Does he have a FB fan page?
- Karoli
we'll rerun at 1PM Pacific tomorrow.
- Steve Gillmor
Not just for me (but I'll admit my motivation is because I can't see it), you might want to think about varying the time of the re-run, or adding more so they're not all at the same time on weekworkdays. If possible.
- Amyloo
I agree with Amyloo. Also, now that the show has an international panel, ythere's even more reason to provide reruns that play in a variety of time-slots.
- Michael Markman
re incremental reform, sometimes it just doesn't work. I'm thinking of decimal conversion.
- Hilary Talbot
Hilary, I just wrote a post about how I think the best way to transition to single payer should go...on a state by state basis.
- Karoli
Thanks, Karoli, it's a good post. I can see state-by-state might be the most workable approach in such a ferociously complicated issue. It's easy for outsiders like me to forget how much independence exists in your state federal relationships.
- Hilary Talbot
I was thinking about the limitations on TV broadcast video for a simulcast with sidebar conversation... not sure how many people have 62" TV's yet that would support offload to a interstital and separate chat window (reminds me of early AOL experiments with interactive pre-IPTV)
- Jay Cuthrell
I talk with Udell all the time, just not on the air recently
- Steve Gillmor
[ (TV) (sidebar) ] would be a pretty big screen
- Jay Cuthrell
okay, later. Lots of fun, Steve, thanks for rerunning for lamers like me who missed the first round.
- Karoli
Yes thanks very much for the bootlegs Jack, much appreciated all around.
- Michael Breslin
btw thank you for recording the prev show!
- Michael Pinto
Listened to the bootleg feed, great show. I doubt I'll ever watch live as I'm more a radio guy. Loren's comment as being a trusted source for reporting the Michael Jackson funeral has a disturbing similarity to Blackwater being a trusted source for the US Military. I'm all for keeping Feldman and Keen on the show and it was great hearing Calacanis again, Scoble on the other hand.... It's your show Steve
- Jason Adams
Just returned from holiday to discover that Steve has put the gang back together. Great first show. Love the fact that Steve no longer sounds like a call-in guest on his own show. Thanks to whoever set up the bootleg mp3 feed - vital for this long-term listener. Keep up the good work, chaps and chapesses!
- Richard Carter, FCD
from iPhone
I found the opposition to Obama addressing school kids so crazy it is hard to believe. Aust ABC World Today commentary (http://www.abc.net.au/worldto... - about 42 minute mark, Friday 4th Sept) describes it as a sign of how 'disfunctional and poisonous politics in America has become'.
- Hilary Talbot
I'm a big believer that things sometimes have to get worse before they get better, but really, how much worse can we get? Biting off fingers and pulling kids out of school so they won't hear a speech from the president? Just what are they afraid of?
- Mr. Gunn
Seems like it's gotten to the point where a partisan meme that should squarely be in the "shouldn't dignify that question with an answer" column just feeds a wild fire that won't stop burning. No one knows what the utter irrationality is going to consume next, but the dark skies are ominous.
- Micah Wittman
@Mr. Gunn: you don't want to know "how much worse" it can get.
- Anthony Citrano
Context is important here. How many pics of dying people have we had that now define history. There is the buddist monk who set himself on fire in protest. The the famous photo of the napalm girl from Vietnam. Those are just the ones i can name off the the top of my head. Theres the ones of RFK as well. But each and every life lost is tragic. The next of kin should have been asked first before publication, in any case.
- Roberto Bonini
With the Smith and Wesson Chief's Special. Yeah. I forgot about that one.
- Roberto Bonini
There are post-death pictures of Benito Mussolini also. In the case you cited, an argument was made that the family should have consented before this newsworthy picture was taken. But was Mussolini's family, or the Kennedy family, consulted before Benito's and Robert's pictures were published? And does it make any difference whether or not the person was already a public figure before...
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- John E. Bredehoft
How about the woman who was killed in the crackdown in Tehran
- Dave Winer
This is obviously a topic for Rebooting the News.
- Dave Winer
Ah, forgot about that her too, Dave. Good point.
- Roberto Bonini
There's debate as to whether it was staged, but one of the most dramatic examples is "The Falling Solider" from the Spanish Civil in 1936: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- Zach Seward
As an aside, the Vietnamese girl Kim Phuc didn't die. She now has children of her own, runs a foundation for children who have been victims of war, and she's a UN goodwill ambassador.
- Hilary Talbot
The baby girl in a firefighter's arms after the Oklahoma City bombing.
- Louis Gray
Not bad. The soldier was photographed in a public moment, war is not a private affair. I haven't made up my mind yet on whether the individual's name should have been public knowledge (didn't see the original AP article, was it?).
- okyrhoe
If I were his family, I would hate it - like the 17 yo girl's family after the police put photos of her wrecked Porsche and dead body online. However, other than that, there is nothing morally wrong with this photo. It's just information.
- Gary Walter (gwalter)
Americans should have to look at every dead or dying soldier or civilian casualty of war. This is the reality hidden behind all the posturing and lies.
- thegeniusfiles
Neither good, nor bad, but rather, life. A part of life that too many are shielded from.
- Harold Cabezas
Would anyone be up for a YouTube Streams session to watch the new Gillmor Gang and chat together? What would be a good time? (If it's up this weekend, and provided stevegillmor or Rackspace wouldn't rather coordinate themselves.) Here's how it works according to Andrew Baron http://dembot.com/post...