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Hilary Talbot › Comments
Richard Bradshaw - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
Great photo montage of our master shadow puppeteer Richard Bradshaw and some of his puppets
- Hilary Talbot
A new creature - http://spiritsdancing.com/sdblog...
Part penguin, part toucan?
- Amyloo
Part ly
- Hilary Talbot
Car maker develops its own flower species - www.drive.com.au - http://www.drive.com.au/Editori...
I can't settle my feelings that I'm being had, nice as the idea is. I'd have expected a media release with pics? The picture there looks like neither sage or gardenia, Drive's own photoshop most likely. And there doesn't seem any mention of it at Toyota.com. Toyota is in the middle of a flowery promotion for the 2010 Prius explained at Fast Company here http://bit.ly/6NuTf. But on looking further at the campaign media release http://bit.ly/2lF4Kp it looks like Fast Company is part of the promotion.
- Hilary Talbot
How common is the practice of applying a style tag to every link on every page, just to control the link color? Not very, I wouldn't think.
I called B.S. Send rude e-mail to somebody by mistake. Now I'm the bad guy for objecting. Need external validation badly.
- Amyloo
I don't know, but I would trust your judgement
- Hilary Talbot
Appreciate the support, Hil. Also getting a sore throat and it's making me cranky. Wouldn't it be nice if you could bring in an expert for 30 seconds to do the Marshall McLuhan validation thing in Annie Hall? That would be a good service to offer over the internet, wouldn't it? Get a stable of top-flight experts in a number of fields and hire them out expressly for things like this, not by the hour but by the minute so the poor worker bees like me could afford to haul them in.
- Amyloo
Yes, nice idea. Hope you feel better soon.
- Hilary Talbot
If they're putting a style tag on every link, then that should be in a stylesheet. Inline styles (i.e., using the style attribute within HTML markup) is generally considered sloppy.
- Dan MacTough
Thank you, Dan. How've you been?
- Amyloo
Seeing as how this will get cross-posted to Twitter and Facebook, I think I will respond by email. :-)
- Dan MacTough
I would agree that best practice would be for this to be in a stylesheet. However, it's far from uncommon to have inline styles on every link, especially when the html's generated by script. Sad to say poor practice ≠ uncommon.
- cori
Yeah, Cori, but why actually answer the question if the answer doesn't support your position? Answer a different question! :-)
- Dan MacTough
Funny dream: I asked how something was pronounced and my answerer sang the pronunciation. I learned this was typical for the alt society I was visiting. The pitch even had special diacritical marks in their linguistic notation, similar to musical notation. I didn't want to wake up and it's going to make me late for work and it was totally worth it
So cool!
- Hilary Talbot
The Animated Life: Shadow's Dream - Video Library - The New York Times - http://video.nytimes.com/video...
Some lovely animations and ideas there.
- Hilary Talbot
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Denise Howell, Jack, Saperalot and 19 other people liked this
I hear that @Pistachio, @Loic will be on today's Gillmor Gang at 1pm.
- Cliff Gerrish
Should be a great show! Laura @Pistachio is a great lady - and who doesn't like Loic?
- Jim Connolly
looking forward to it
- Kevin Marks
Hi Laura!!!
- Francine Hardaway
No one there.
- Paul W. Swansen
who's doing darth vader breathing?
- Kevin Marks
Finally running a bit late.
- Paul W. Swansen
Not me.
- Robert Scoble
a bit loud all of a sudden
- Rocky Barbanica
John Borthwick of BetaWorks live on the GillmorGang.
- Cliff Gerrish
how many of you are joining us at the ReadWrite Real-Time Web Summit next Thurs? John Borthwick is! http://readwriteweb.com/summit hi John! :)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
a spot on her camera is distracting
- Rocky Barbanica
Marshall: I will.
- Robert Scoble
I am joining you there
- Brian Hendrickson
Rocky: that's a mouse pointer.
- Robert Scoble
I'm joining the http://readwriteweb.com/summit @marshallk - looking forward to it
- Kevin Marks
if Twitter=AOL we should see a "web" twitter soon.
- Robert Scoble
the spot is there even on loic's cam
- Nishant
Yeah, it's not on her camera... it's on everybody's
- Ken Sheppardson
We've got a cursor problem that we know about. We'll just hav to live with it for this show.
- Cliff Gerrish
no - now it's on Loic- must be tricaster
- Rocky Barbanica
nice mouse pointer in the middle of the screen.... whoo!
- Jay
oh good! didn't know you were coming Robert, glad to hear it!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall: I'm not sure if I reserved my Twitter ticket yet. :-)
- Robert Scoble
ahh thanks cliff
- Rocky Barbanica
that comes from the mouse/keyboard sharing utility probably - if they are running multiple skype computers
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
seriously.... someone pick that booger!
- Jay
What, you mean Kevin's birthmark?
- Ken Sheppardson
and fix the wide faces LOL
- dstamand
Bear, bingo
- Cliff Gerrish
Isn't everyone born with a mouse cursor on their face?
- Robert Scoble
Evan Prodromou on Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference today 07 Oct 2009 http://www.w3.org/2009...
- Brian Hendrickson
=D
- Jay
Would have been interesting to watch this discussion on wave. SO much chaos! yikes! FF is better! :-)
- Nishant
There's always something going on with the technology on GG
- Francine Hardaway
FF is different, not better.
- Ken Sheppardson
Someone is typing on a keyboard, knock that off.
- Robert Scoble
Yes. different and better for such discussions
- Nishant
Suggestion: Mute when not talking.
- Arnie Klaus
And we heard someone drinking coffee or something as well
- Pierre TAMISIER
Love these British accents and guys who sound like they're talking in tunnels
- Francine Hardaway
Just what I need. An explosion of data coming into the stream
- Francine Hardaway
Sorry, Robert. I'm typing. Then again, I'm not on the call... didn't realize it was disruptive ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I want tweetdeck or seesmic to be a full "real-time" web browser : with all real-time information in there : Twitter, Facebook... etc, but also Gmail, my RSS feeds,... etc
- Julien
Ken, that doesn't mean we can't hear you.
- Cliff Gerrish
Francine: I haven't seen any of that stuff on my stream yet. Probably has a big impact on search.
- Robert Scoble
Julien => it sounds like google wave what you want
- Pierre TAMISIER
Cliff: So you can hear the Blue Angels overhead too then?
- Ken Sheppardson
Oh yeah.
- Cliff Gerrish
Other people are reporting Blue Angels too.
- Robert Scoble
I just saw them off the Pacifica coast
- Rocky Barbanica
#blueangels should be trending topic on Twitter any minute. It's their first practice for Fleet Week today.
- Ken Sheppardson
Julien I second that. Pierre really? Don't know yet. Need Wave to discover this. Anticipation greater.
- amarquart
I like the split screen can you quad screen?
- Rocky Barbanica
Rocky, not yet. It's a feature request for the Tricaster. But the double box is pretty cool.
- Cliff Gerrish
split screen eliminates visible cursor issue
- Rocky Barbanica
... waiting for the Moment of Win
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Daniel: we are too! :-)
- Robert Scoble
The main issues for me about Seesmic and Tweetdeck are the memory size they require!
- Pierre TAMISIER
Daniel: it usually comes after the show.
- Robert Scoble
I was wrong.
- Rocky Barbanica
lol @Daniel
- Micah Wittman
Just *reply*, Robert. We'll follow-up and go back to look at the conversation if your reply is interesting.
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert is hitting on an idea that I have wanted for awhile. I don't want to restream all the tweets of the day, just a few choice.
- amarquart
Flag a conversation as interesting by participating.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Amarquart - are you thinking something like Friendfeed's Best of Day for lists?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
is there an audio archive for these new gillmor gangs?
- Jamie
"Re:"
- Ken Sheppardson
all I want to do is hear the show on my commute. this live shit is annoying.
- Jamie
@daniel rather move to my posterous. not in friendfeed
- amarquart
Jamie: get an iPHone.
- Robert Scoble
I have an iPhone
- Jamie
Jamie: Look for Bootleg Gillmor Gang on iTunes
- Ken Morley
I want an RSS feed
- Jamie
FriendFeed was very close to what I want, but didn't give me enough choice on controlling/separating my words out from yours.
- Robert Scoble
latest bootleg gillmor gang is 9.17
- Jamie
/me casts Level 9 Lazyweb of the infinite
- Daniel J. Pritchett
You can listen to Ustream live on iPhone with the Ustream app.
- Robert Scoble
Still hate hashtags, although I use them
- Francine Hardaway
Keep looking, I have 10.01 via iTunes.
- Ken Morley
I know but the live format isnt always convenient from a timing perspective. some of us work! lol
- Jamie
Francine: I use them less and less, usually only for conferences. And even then I hate them.
- Robert Scoble
Oh, and people now spam by putting hashtags on irrelevant tweets
- Francine Hardaway
I need a visual map on how these things work or I can't adapt easily.
- Arnie Klaus
Bored dog just countersurfed in my kitchen, took the top off the crockpot and tried to take out the chicken! Thank goodness a fail!
- Francine Hardaway
thanks Ken I will try again
- Jamie
Can someone please move the pointer out of the middle of the screen?
- Matthew Schrock
I like Brizzly's take on a wikified hashtag index right inside the client. It's got flaws but it's a good start. Would love to see an "official" hashtag wiki. Then again, Twitter doesn't feel like a wiki-friendly company. More on Brizzly at http://www.louisgray.com/live...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Laura's not odd -- just far more like everyone else
- Ian McGee
Matthew, we just have to live with it for this show.
- Cliff Gerrish
Just keep a 2-shot, Cliff :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
friendfeed's text is too grey. I had to to make http://friendlierfeed.appspot.com to read it
- Kevin Marks
good show so far!
- Rocky Barbanica
I only go to Friendfeed because my friends are there:-) Easier to see them there. BTW, I'm not seeing a cursor
- Francine Hardaway
Thanks Cliff.
- Matthew Schrock
Robert, I'm curious, are you aware of Cliqset? Some of the issues you've brought up are problems we're very interested and about to help solve.
- Darren
Yeah, I'm barely aware of Cliqset, I will be interested in trying that out. Probably this weekend.
- Robert Scoble
cursor moved
- Rocky Barbanica
Wanna call me and walk me through it? +1-425-205-1921
- Robert Scoble
Robert - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive... if you're interested
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
ah, I see Daren is here too
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
MySpace? Never heard of them! LOL!!!
- Rocky Barbanica
ah - cliqset requires a beta code - anyway to get one?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Hey Dan!
- Rocky Barbanica
looks like we need a standard for these activities in a stream... oh wait there's one! What we need is an easy wait to be a "source" with existing clients (ie. making seesmic/tweedeck activity stream clients for many services, not just twitter/facebook)
- Sylvain Carle
Creating a simple and effective way for a social media publishing workflow (avoiding duplication) is very difficult at the moment.
- Mark Krynsky
crowd-sourced design; fun
- Ian McGee
The IM streams came together in the client. Pidgin, Adium, Trillian, etc.
- Ken Sheppardson
Chamillionaire interview on building43 tomorrow hosted by Michael Sean Wright
- Rocky Barbanica
Michael Sean Wright is sitting next to me.
- Robert Scoble
Ridin' Dirty Chamillionaire?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Yea, the came in the client... but never further than that : Mosaic would have never been the web browser if it couldn't browse any website : http://blog.superfeedr.com/Real-ti...
- Julien
"Privacy" means "multi groups" while "public" means "one group", no ?
- Baptiste Cadiou
Just signing into Cliqset to see if it solves anything
- Francine Hardaway
Public means multiple scale free microcommunities.
- Cliff Gerrish
Public = you determine whether or not you're a member, Private = I do.
- Ken Sheppardson
Same Chamillionaire, Daniel
- Rocky Barbanica
I have to run.
- Robert Scoble
Steve: I have to run, I have a Mashable chat I have to do.
- Robert Scoble
OK, bye Robert.
- Cliff Gerrish
Still haven't gotten a wave invite. 2 people said they sent them
- Francine Hardaway
Realtime audience mining (to Mashable)
- Arnie Klaus
If blinders = control, we're in trouble
- Ken Sheppardson
As long as you let "everyone" view what you're saying, you can't really block any particular person from seeing it.
- Ken Sheppardson
nice reference to dynamic memory :)
- Hilary Talbot
Francine, Google is metering the invites that are in the queue. It may take a while.
- Matthew Schrock
Google Reader has made steps with regards to curation by friends. Louis Gray is my shared items guru :)
- Mark Krynsky
to calculate what's trending around your friends, you need a lot of friends ^^
- Baptiste Cadiou
Not if you also expand the network to friends of your friends Baptiste
- Mark Krynsky
also http://oneforty.com/item... shows stories your friends read
- Kevin Marks
Agree with Mark K - GR does a good job, feedly is a fine app which also provides suggestions.
- Dave Martin
I wrote about Twitter Times yesterday which Kevin just mentioned http://lifestreamblog.com/custom-... It's a great way to filter Twitter links by the people you follow on Twitter.
- Mark Krynsky
Well, it shouldn't have to be just your friends... I'd like to see some sort of wizard that let you build up groups, e.g. "Create a group of all the peole my friends follow, and show me trending topics among those people"
- Ken Sheppardson
Micromessage derivatives.
- Cliff Gerrish
Ken, if Twitter rolls out lists soon and allows that data to be passed to the API Twitter Times could leverage that automatically.
- Mark Krynsky
I want to see the principal that Twitter Times has released to be created on a wider scale. Imagine that logic expanded across multiple social media services and the people you follow on each of them. Then mash the data across all of them. It become far more interesting and useful at that point.
- Mark Krynsky
Kevin, TwitterTimes looks like something actually useful.
- Francine Hardaway
Anyone on Cliqset? Couldn't find anyone I know
- Francine Hardaway
Mashability toward Monetization
- Arnie Klaus
I'm on there Francine but honestly haven't used it much
- Mark Krynsky
filtered feeds toward frictionless transactions
- Arnie Klaus
What is the value of a user of any app?
- Arnie Klaus
appreciate Laura being on GG. enjoying her imput.
- Hilary Talbot
this sounds like good advice
- Brian Hendrickson
Its great that this show is not tightly limited in time. It allows the conversations to flourish.
- Arnie Klaus
Love you Laura!
- Francine Hardaway
Bravos, Steve. Good show. P.S. Great to hear that @Pistachio is officially a member of TGG.
- Dave Martin
Great show!!
- Arnie Klaus
great show
- Jamie
yes @hil121 great to have @pistachio here too - very insightful
- Kevin Marks
Thanks to all the participants of today's Gillmor Gang. Y'all rock!
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Thanks to the audience too - realtime and otherwise.
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Cool. I love these behind-the-scene photos, Tina.
- Hilary Talbot
You know you should listen to Leo, right? - http://amyloo.com/blog...
Thank you for this, Amy. Loved the talk, and the silly virtual puppet. I suspect it was quite advanced for the time.
- Hilary Talbot
I like how Soledad interacted with him, not giving him much respect because he wasn't real after all.
- Amyloo
yes, as puppetry it was technically good, but as the vehicle Leo wanted, ridiculous.
- Hilary Talbot
Curling Up with Hybrid Books, Videos Included - http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
Interesting, when you share on FF, the title is instead: Hybrid Books From Publishers Like Simon and Schuster Add Video and Web Features to Reading - NYTimes.com. A undeclared advertising feature perhaps?
- Hilary Talbot
from Bookmarklet
Marco Frattola (sbarrax) and Hilary Talbot liked this
It's such a beautiful coast. Did you do the whole walk?
- Hilary Talbot
He just smiled and gave me a iSnack2.0 sandwich -The Punch - http://www.thepunch.com.au/article...
The furore over the new vegemite is funny
- Hilary Talbot
Just wrote a Sidewiki entry on "Sidewiki: Getting started guide - Toolbar Help" http://www.google.com/sidewik...
I'm wondering how come I can see the entry when I haven't got the toolbar or sidewiki?
- Hilary Talbot
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Christian Hollingsworth, Haris bin Ali, Nicholas James and 25 other people liked this
Nice. I'm home this afternoon and get to see it live for the first time.
- Amyloo
ditto. no sound either.
- Christopher Harris
We're getting there
- Brett Slatkin
The test pattern looks good so far.
- Matt Mastracci
We are starting shortly.
- Robert Scoble
whoooo! shortly!
- Christopher Harris
Please stand by...
- Robert Scoble
It's on
- Matt Mastracci
Cool
- Ken Sheppardson
Rackspace is wasting their money, they could reach 175000 geeks by advertising on TWiT
- Mark
first time i'm seeing the new video :)
- Christopher Harris
Mark: who said we won't do that too?
- Robert Scoble
Alright... need to pull up Dave's Twitter stream in another window...
- Ken Sheppardson
look at that chizzled jaw, lucky guy
- Mark
dave winer?
- Christopher Harris
Considering we're watching video sucked over Skype and rebroadcast over ustream, the quality is pretty good.
- Matt Mastracci
"Fast RSS." I liek that generic term. Harkens to fast zombies.
- Amyloo
Fast feeds - like fast food? Will there be a Slow Feeds movement?
- Kevin Marks
Polling sucks.
- Bob Wyman
Bob: can you explain why you think that?
- Robert Scoble
And how that fits into this conversation?
- Robert Scoble
Knowing "what's new" is pretty important - as important as "something is new".
- Matt Mastracci
Scoble: It's inefficient.
- Eric Florenzano
Aha I'm awake in time for the gillmor gang.
- Hilary Talbot
polling wastes resources on both sides of the connection for the majority of the time when there are no new items
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Hey Hil.
- Amyloo
hey Amy :)
- Hilary Talbot
Scoble: Think of the browser. V1 of friendfeed was polling. You had to ask (by refreshing) whether there was new content. This version of friendfeed is push, where FriendFeed tells you when there's new stuff.
- Eric Florenzano
bear: right, so is Pubsubhubbub doing it right or wrong? And, is there a better way?
- Robert Scoble
the key part is that it's sending the content along with the item - this dramatically reduces client complexity
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
By "server", he means "hub", re: doing more work. The blogs do as much work as they do today (ie: ping the hub).
- Matt Mastracci
Hubbub is doing it right IMO
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Scoble: Just remember everything I said to you 5 or 6 years ago when explaining why PubSub was useful and why "one-day" people would realize that real-time would be good. Nothing has changed.
- Bob Wyman
Bob: yup, I'm slow. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: You need to get more "real-time"!
- Bob Wyman
Right - this is the HTTP/HTML version of what PubSub has been doing for XMPP
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Absolutely. No question. Yes.
- Bob Wyman
Yeah. It could do twitter.
- Matt Mastracci
correction - I'm not the CTO - I don't think Johann would like me taking his job :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Oh, sorry.
- Robert Scoble
Is it possible Bill Gates had it right, Business at the speed of Thought? We want content and information as we think it.
- Owen Greaves
I get confused. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Someone ask Recordon if they've figured out how all this can relate to activitystrea.ms, the streams protocol Facebook, MySpace, and others support
- Jesse Stay
no worries :) I like the promotion
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
which is Atom based
- Jesse Stay
You'd have a hard time doing twitter over rssCloud - you'd have to be pulling the last 30 twitter messages after each tweet. That's 30x the traffic.
- Matt Mastracci
If you were designing this sort of system from scratch today, I can't imagine that you'd take a polling approach. It's legacy left over from page-based web browsing.
- Ken Sheppardson
This is a great fit for activitystrea.ms
- Kevin Marks
Kevin, that's what I was thinking - both being Atom, they ought to fit together well. I'd love to see a use-case in action.
- Jesse Stay
Yeah, activitystrea.ms works easily with Atom which can then be made real time using PSHB.
- David Recordon
robert - easily - Seesmic ran in the cloud until we finally needed more memory for the Java side
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
polling is useful as a fallback and to pull history when subscribing for the first time.
- Kevin Marks
Can we all just agree on "Hubbub" vs "PuSH" or saying "pubsubhubbub" every time... once and for all? :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd love to see Brett's opinion on why Twitter won't implement PSHB
- Jesse Stay
It requires a big player just to have the operations staff to maintain a high volume site
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jesse: I was just about to ask that.
- Robert Scoble
Tornado uses epoll and it's been used by Twisted Python
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
but if it's distributed - it would scale out anyway
- Ankush Narula
Kqueue too :) (Well, Twisted does support that, Tornado doesn't yet)
- Eric Florenzano
Twitter won't implement it because they want to be the hub, and they want everybody to use their own, proprietary APIS
- Ken Sheppardson
Ankush - correct - until you get "scobled" (i.e. when you have one user with a huge number of followers)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Mike: and wait until you get onto Oprah! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Sounds like DNS
- Rob La Gesse
Ken, I understand the Hub part, but I can't help wonder if they just don't understand how it could help their API. They could use their own hub if they wanted.
- Jesse Stay
Are Hubbub and rssCloud the same thing? (...he asks, feigning innocence)
- Ken Sheppardson
The PSHB protocol is "simple" and fairly trivial implementations are possible. But, *any* single hub that monitors millions of feeds is going to need care and feeding. There will be *very large* hubs and their will be tiny hubs and they can all work together happily.
- Bob Wyman
I'd love to know if Brett or Brad have reached out to Twitter in any way
- Jesse Stay
Ken: no. Similar efforts but come from different histories. RSSCloud comes from Dave Winer's side of the house.
- Robert Scoble
robert - oh hell no - that's what Loic is good at
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
the distinction is that PubSubHubbub sends the fat pings with content in; rssCloud sends an update notification and still needs a poll
- Kevin Marks
Mike: actually Loic has someone speaking at LeWeb that has a bigger global brand than Oprah.
- Robert Scoble
robert - yea, I haven't found out who yet - i'm curioius about that
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
It's Dr. Laura isn't it Robert?
- Jesse Stay
what happens if a hub dies?
- Ankush Narula
Jesse: way bigger than that.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, Twitter wants other people to adopt their streaming API, if anything... they don't want to be yet another hub in some network
- Ken Sheppardson
rssCloud causes "thundering herd" problem on source blogs. The result can be a complete swamping of smaller publishers. This was the core "mistake" in rssCloud when it was first done 7 years ago and it remains the core error in that protocol.
- Bob Wyman
How about working with the OMB guys? Why PSHB vs. OMB protocol?
- Jesse Stay
yea, Twitter got burned with XMPP early in their engineering life so have a bad taste for it - they got burned not because of XMPP but because of other non-tech reasons
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
OMB could generate activitystrea.ms + PSHB too
- Kevin Marks
Jesse - IMO OMB should allow for atom payloads - then it could become part of PSHB by default
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Thundering herd would be a *huge* problem if Twitter were to get decentralized. Oprah has 1MM+ followers - that's 20 tweets * 1k * 1MM subscribers on each tweet.
- Matt Mastracci
Celine Dion probably has a bigger brand than Opera, and she speaks French (ADD kicking in here)
- Jesse Stay
Bear, interesting
- Jesse Stay
Bear: The issue wasn't XMPP the protocol, it was the software they used to implement it, the systems they built to feed it, the way they configured it, etc... XMPP isn't, a priori, any worse than the alternatives.
- Bob Wyman
OMB made a big mistake when they created their own protocol instead of just extending ATOM, IMO
- Eric Florenzano
Bob, yes - you said it much better than I did - I was trying to say just that
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
There was also the on again/off again relationship Twitter had with Gnip that confused the whole XMPP situation
- Ken Sheppardson
Yeah, I don't really see what OMB gets you these days given activitystrea.ms, Hubbub, etc. Seems redundant.
- Ken Sheppardson
We have an interesting interview with Gnip's founder on Building43 right now, by the way.
- Robert Scoble
@Matt: Right. with rssCloud, publishing becomes massively expensive if you get popular. rssCloud will, on the other hand, work well for people who aren't very popular and don't have many people interested in what they publish. For those folk, rssCloud is a potential solution... :-)
- Bob Wyman
Gnip link: http://www.building43.com/videos...
- Rob La Gesse
oh cool - Gnip has some very cool tech behind the scenes - i'll have to queue that video
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ken - now that identi.ca/status.net has plugins - nothing prevents someone from wiring up a PHSB hook to the internal message queue for identi.ca/status.net
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
bear: You know if anybody's pushing activitystrea.ms out of a Laconica instance yet?
- Ken Sheppardson
I imagine that hooking up the twitter firehose to PSHB would be really easy and cheap, but it would likely violate the twitter firehose license.
- Matt Mastracci
kevin - yea, one of the most fun projects I did was to hook a sms/xmpp bot to a phone switch - it allowed you to control your vm/phone from xmpp and gave a lot of benefit
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
EVERYTHING cool violates the Twitter firehose rules :)
- Rob La Gesse
ken - there is some private branch work being done on that - but they are working on getting 0.9 out the door first
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@bear great - we should get you hooked up to the Ribbit APIs for telephony stuff and Seesmic
- Kevin Marks
Rob: FriendFeed figured out a way around the stupid Twitter rules.
- Robert Scoble
I think just knowing that Twitter offers a firehose violates it's terms of use.
- Ken Sheppardson
@kevin i would love to review them and make a pitch to the team about them
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - FF didn't try to share the firehose.
- Rob La Gesse
$50M for FF engineering and architecture team?
- Ankush Narula
@bear great, email me kevinmarks@gmail.com
- Kevin Marks
..and FF was able to position themselves as a Twitter client, in a sense, by pushing traffic to Twitter. They weren't just extracting value from the system. Plus, they probably asked nicely and sent cupcakes.
- Ken Sheppardson
Rob: sure it did, but it only shares it for people who have logged into FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: Twitter's rules are "don't create a shadow Twitter." As long as you don't try to do that they probably will let you play.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: of course every geek in the world wants to create a shadow Twitter. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Rob - once they produced the v2 api - then they started sharing the full stream. Until that point it was a partial stream
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - my point is - at the same time Twitter couldn't support more use of the firehose, they demanded the firehose NOT be re-broadcast. They don;t allow one to become a "node" of the stream. Which seems silly.
- Rob La Gesse
That's not entirely correct, Robert. Their other rule is "don't try to monetize something firehose based that we may at some point in the indefinite future think about monetizing ourselves"
- Ken Sheppardson
On PubSubHubbub and rssCloud ... (http://brad.livejournal.com/2405147...)
- David Recordon
Ken: we're saying the same thing. :-)
- Robert Scoble
decentralization!!!
- Ankush Narula
Rob: FriendFeed rebroadcasts the Twitter firehose, but only for the people who have signed onto FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Ah... right... "shadow Twitter". Gotcha :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert/Ken - I can understand why Twitter doesn't want downstream nodes passing on the stream - they lose access control
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - they are not. They are broadcasting back a VERY small portion of that stream, at best.
- Rob La Gesse
I think technically rebroadcasting is illegal according to the Twitter developer terms for the firehose
- Jesse Stay
Mike me too! Rob: it is a small portion because only a few hundred thousand people have signed onto FriendFeed, but if you could get everyone on Twitter to sign up here you'd see the entire firehose.
- Robert Scoble
In so far as fire-walled end-user applications can't receive pings, PSHB protocol mainly helps publishers and server-side aggregators like Google reader. Since this "last mile problem" is out-of-scope for PSHB, we can't yet expect any client explosion the likes that Twitter has seen. Any thoughts from the panel on the last mile problem? What would have to be done so that Tweetie, Seesmic, etc, might benefit from PSHB?
- Mason Lee
Robert - I disagree. I think if that happened the hose would be shut off.
- Rob La Gesse
The protocol comparison document is at: http://code.google.com/p...
- Bob Wyman
Well, I don't think it's just rebroadcasting... there's also an issue around derivative/aggregations based on the firehose, firehose-based analytics, etc
- Ken Sheppardson
Why isn't Twitter ever a part of these conversations? I'd love to hear their viewpoint. You should get Ryan Sarver on one of these episodes.
- Jesse Stay
I believe they have an open invite :)
- Rob La Gesse
real time chat across different media and internet access levels - you pick what size/speed your want your conversation to happen at
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
The last time I saw Twitter participate in this sort of conversation was at BearHugCamp last fall.... and I suspect that left a bad taste in their mouth :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm curious if anyone invited them
- Jesse Stay
But you can't do global Track across a federated system
- Ken Sheppardson
But Kevin, what about tracking the firehose?
- Cliff Gerrish
*somebody* needs to aggregate everything if you want to search across everything
- Ken Sheppardson
*drink* someone mentioned Track
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Mason If PSHB handles the backbone problem of providing fan-in and then fan-out for millions of feeds, it makes it massively easier for people to focus on building innovative front ends. There isn't much opportunity for creativity in solving the backend problem -- that's why it is reasonable to build something like PSHB today. The really fun problems are the things that should be relying on PSHB as a source of feeds. Let PSHB do the boring backend problem -- you should focus on innovative clients.
- Bob Wyman
drink
- Rob La Gesse
or you need to delegate/distribute searches out to the hubs
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: that's a good point.
- Robert Scoble
I need a drink!
- Robert Scoble
Robert - grab some formula!
- Rob La Gesse
But, "follow" isn't enough. We also need TRACK!
- Bob Wyman
Or that other kind of milk.
- Amyloo
There are certainly benefits to distribution and redundancy, but there *are* benefits to centralization.
- Ken Sheppardson
Kevin has the key point, getting what you want... Discovery of what you want would be next... these hubs will be learning patterns of what is wanted.
- Ben Hedrington
Or will it be too decentralized?
- Ben Hedrington
Discovery on a federated/partitioned system is problematic.
- Ken Sheppardson
but PSHB isn't for track, as you have said eloquently on the mailing list, Bob
- Kevin Marks
live filtering?
- Ankush Narula
So discovery is the next frontier?
- Ben Hedrington
track remains a problem even with PSHB *but* using PSHB allows you to do a track across more than just one source
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert: chat room other than here?
- David Stratton
discovery happens the same way you discover new blogs IMO
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Kevin: But, if I've got PSHB aggregating the feeds, it makes it really, really easy for me to build a server that *does* do track on the stuff that PSHB feeds to me.
- Bob Wyman
Discovery has always been the new frontier
- Francine Hardaway
David: this is the chat room.
- Robert Scoble
Hubbub allows some central search provider subscribe to everything, then people can subscribe to the search provider... but there just has to be some way to discover/broadcast which feeds are out there... this is an issue with SUP, btw... discovery. You have to know a feed's SUP ID first.
- Ken Sheppardson
okay, thought so
- David Stratton
I guess I wasn't being 2010 enough. This is the chat feed. :-)
- Robert Scoble
So you mean if you want to do research or market research you will pay
- Francine Hardaway
@bobwyman sure, but that isn't the usecase Robert says he wants; he needs a mass crawl for that
- Kevin Marks
Francine: and restaurants will pay $10 a month to have their own Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
I remember the Microsoft guy at BearHugCamp last fall was wondering why anybody would ever want to build a Track system, rather than just leave it to Google...
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm a set of keywords, I'm looking for a set of keywords
- Arnie Klaus
Of course, Twitter will probably offer http://www.sushirestaurant.com/twitter at some point too.
- Robert Scoble
Live regexp for big pipes sounds like a $1Billion dollar business.
- Cliff Gerrish
we've been doing this stuff with MOM in financial market feeds - topic subscriptions, channels, etc.
- Ankush Narula
@kevin, I dont' see the distinction. I can do track based on all that flows through the PSHB hubs. That's semantically equivelant to doing a "mass crawl"
- Bob Wyman
And what will they really do with it? That they don't do now
- Francine Hardaway
You can have one aggregator that controls the entire feed, or you can set the feed loose and let several companies aggregate from those. Same data, no single point of control.
- Rob La Gesse
Francine: I can see a lot you would do if you had your own branded Twitter clone.
- Robert Scoble
Every Hubbub hub could/should provide a local firehose to anyone who wants it.
- Ken Sheppardson
distributed track is possible. Centralization only makes it easier.
- Bob Wyman
Complex events processing...
- Cliff Gerrish
@bobwyman only if all the hubs do collation for you, surely? Content-based filtering inot feeds on the hubs too
- Kevin Marks
Bob: and even centralization isn't THAT easy. Twitter only shows you the last few days on http://search.twitter.com
- Robert Scoble
How similar to JustSignal?
- Francine Hardaway
This is similar to tracking multiple market centers (pools of liquidity) to get the right trade.
- Cliff Gerrish
John Kalucki, a SQLstream co-founder, has been at Twitter for about 18 month now working on... wait for it... their firehose API.
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff: Now I understand
- Francine Hardaway
the fun happens when PSHB allows for disparate streams to have firehoses - then all the search/filter geeks can do their thing
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Scoble: "history" is irrelevant to any system doing a real-time track. All you care about is the future -- not the past. Past is for "retrospective search," "track" is about "prospective search".
- Bob Wyman
The future: filter, search, discover, curate
- Francine Hardaway
So Twitter is trying to become FriendFeed?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Sure we do. It's called TwitterSpy. Dustin Sallings built it two years ago
- Ken Sheppardson
others have built the same thing...
- Ken Sheppardson
Mike - so is Facebook :)
- Rob La Gesse
Bob: I want both.
- Robert Scoble
@bobwyman disagree - you need both flow and past; they complement one another
- Kevin Marks
bear: I think if you look at some of the newer Twitter web clients, they're basically a FriendFeed-like UI on top of the Twitter message bus.
- Ken Sheppardson
twitter retweet is going to make a lot of folks angry - not that I have any inside info or anything
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
bear: hah!
- Robert Scoble
@Scoble: Of course you want both. I would never question that. The two halves of search compliment each other. Only retrospective or only prospective is only half the solution. Most of the systems you've ever used have only solved half the problem .
- Bob Wyman
bear: Justine Bateman's already mad about it. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Bob: agreed. FriendFeed came close to solving both.
- Robert Scoble
London here :)
- Bastian
New York here...
- Bob Wyman
hawaii here
- Arnie Klaus
Texas
- Rob La Gesse
Philadelphia
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
NYC
- Ankush Narula
Just got a 503 on Twitter... we breaking it real time?
- Ben Hedrington
Washington State
- Steve Hammer
San Francisco (not Silcon Valley ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
canberra, Aust
- Hilary Talbot
Dana Point, CA here
- michael sean wright
nice thing we started here
- Bastian
Wow - what a nice distribution!
- Rob La Gesse
Ben - no - Twitter's auth API is having trouble right now - my monitoring alerts are going berserk about it
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Minneapolis, MN
- Ben Hedrington
RSS!!
- michael sean wright
Arizona
- Francine Hardaway
awww...RSS :-)
- Jodi Church
RSS, welcome to the world.
- Bob Wyman
RSS lives!
- Mason Lee
Don;t know how Scoble had a cute baby :) I mean, Maryam is cute, but Robert? Hee
- Rob La Gesse
LOL @RSS...
- Karoli
That gives new meaning to RSS stream.
- Steve Hammer
when he farts - do you call it an rssCloud? ;-)
- Ankush Narula
welcome to the intertubes RSS!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@ankush LOL!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Rocky looks so cute petting him
- Francine Hardaway
Ankush, FTW!
- Karoli
Careful - Rocky looks hungry!
- Rob La Gesse
loved the mp3 of the sounds of RSS greeting the world
- michael sean wright
Your saving it all for his great, great grandkids!
- Arnie Klaus
I need to run! :)
- David Recordon
Thanks man ttyl
- Brett Slatkin
lots of spamming yesterday
- Karoli
it was a classic phishing scam
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
2 different things
- Karoli
Good to hear about http://superfeedr.com!
- Julien
If you were using SocialToo you wouldn't have gotten those messages :-)
- Jesse Stay
they're able to insert messages into your stream when you don't follow via the Twitter API
- Karoli
PSHB is not really decentralized from the client's perspective-- there will be one front end: google.
- Mason Lee
Diversity is important in *any* ecosystem...
- Bob Wyman
It's funny that I'm getting a fail whale on the Gillmor Gang.
- Robert Scoble
it's the same with your computer network - all the same server means you are pwned by a single attack
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Steve Gillmor needs his Twitter anti-virus (SocialToo) :-)
- Jesse Stay
DNS
- Eric Florenzano
Gmail
- Ken Sheppardson
Commonality in protocols -- diversity in servers.
- Bob Wyman
oh, wait...
- Ken Sheppardson
Twitter is down hard now.
- Robert Scoble
Ok, really need to go now! Thanks and talk to everyone later.
- David Recordon
I'm gettting 503 server error.
- Robert Scoble
everyone gets nervous when we add a layer on top of the web stack...
- Ankush Narula
yea, i'm getting hard errors from Twitter in my server alerts
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ahh, it's back.
- Robert Scoble
One day Twitter just won't come back.
- Ken Sheppardson
i was, but it's working again for me
- Jodi Church
Yeah - API's having issues too
- Jesse Stay
Still 503 here
- Ken Sheppardson
@ken - then, we will all sleep.
- Rob La Gesse
Ken: Not after it has raise $100m
- Francine Hardaway
Its google wave getting ready to go live.
- Arnie Klaus
it's both
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Annie: Hah!
- Ben Hedrington
The problem comes in ownership of the resource. In the decentralized web, we share the pipes in neutral fashion. But, "commercial" people tend to violate net neutrality rules. Like Twitter deciding who can and cannot read their data. That is a net neutrality failure...
- Bob Wyman
Only portrayed that way by the FSF/GPL extremists
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Love the sound of Skype in the morning
- Bastian
@bear: We should profit by competing on the service we provide users -- not on how much of user's data we have captured.
- Bob Wyman
Bob: and what about Facebook's front door being completely locked?
- Ankush Narula
@bob agree 100%
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Is he saying Dave Winer's naive? :-)
- Jesse Stay
Bob: agree. Jesse: I think so.
- Robert Scoble
He's saying light pinging won't work.
- Cliff Gerrish
*smack*
- Rob La Gesse
@Ankush I'm seriously hoping that the new hires at Facebook help steer them away from the dark side :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
So to argue in Twitter and Facebook's defense, they're not just a neutral pass through. They're adding value to the system, and they'd argue that they shouldn't be "forced" to just let that walk out the back door.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd like to see Dave Winer's response to that
- Jesse Stay
@ankush , Folk don't always agree with me. But, I believe that users should control access to their data and they should make decisions based on what is in their interest -- the people who run the services that people use should *not* be the ones deciding what access controls will be enforced.
- Bob Wyman
so do you see there being an APi to Google's crawl for use in this, Bob?
- Kevin Marks
Because of stampeding herds?
- Mason Lee
I'm a big +1 on the fat ping
- Eric Florenzano
Jesse: I'm sure you will (see the response)
- Ken Sheppardson
Mike: if Facebook doesn't get its public service act together they will see themselves becoming the next MySpace. In the early adopter audience it already is.
- Robert Scoble
Bob/Mike - i'm in full agreement - but when you're building a service that has zero monetization (twitter) - what else can your valuation be based on other than your core data assets?
- Ankush Narula
I think Facebook is getting it together. Connect is their answer, but they're also slowly opening up search as well.
- Jesse Stay
Of course they have FriendFeed now to keep the early adopters inside the Facebook tent, but there's a lot more early adopters on Twitter than here.
- Robert Scoble
@robert agree completely - I had already zero'd out my profile and moved to FF - but the FF folks moving to FB made me give them more time
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bob/Mike - as for FB - I hope so too
- Ankush Narula
Of course, you are better off doing it on Rackspace :)
- Rob La Gesse
Jesse: I agree with you.
- Robert Scoble
Don't build services that have no legitimate path to profit. In that case, you should be building protocols whose costs can be shared by the community and then build your business by creating the best tools for using the protocol.
- Bob Wyman
popping in to listen to RL Gilmor Gang stream #gillmorgang
- Del_
Bob - Sounds ideal - but knowing the history of Twitter - I suspect they were much more concerned about uptime rather than the public good
- Ankush Narula
robert and rob: speaking of using Rackspace, Cartus put my contract on hold while they figure out their needs
- David Stratton
"Has *2* Bs"?? Doesn't it have, like 12?
- Ken Sheppardson
pub sub hub bub (five bs)
- Robert Scoble
activitystrea.ms is yet another endpoint that can be connected to PSHB
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Ankush I don't know who was thinking what. But, I do know that those who focus on "public good" typically write protocols, not walled garden closed sites.
- Bob Wyman
Sidewiki is so not a wiki
- Ken Sheppardson
I think it's actually "pub/sub hubbub" - I'm usually wrong though
- Jesse Stay
I want Sidewiki to have Wave support
- Jesse Stay
Bob - fair enough :-)
- Ankush Narula
Locking a new "feature" into relying on me installing a toolbar is a GREAT way to make sure I don;t play with it.
- Rob La Gesse
ooh - I hear tension in the realms of Google :-)
- Jesse Stay
you would have to gather a set of wave changesets and then push that out via PSHB
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Rob: I'm sure they'll support it in Chrome too, eventually
- Ken Sheppardson
It's PSHB vs. Wave - who will win? :-)
- Jesse Stay
you guys are nuts :-)
- Loic Le Meur
Wave *IS* XMPP
- Ken Sheppardson
Loic is in the building :)
- Rob La Gesse
Loic it's Celine Dion isn't it? :-) (how's it going?)
- Jesse Stay
nope
- Loic Le Meur
Where's my Wave invitation?
- Francine Hardaway
The Wave protocol is just an extension of XMPP
- Ken Sheppardson
good try though
- Loic Le Meur
PSHB and Wave don't compete. They do different things. Othogonal. PSHB does *nothing* in the last-mile user interface space.
- Bob Wyman
Loic: thanks for filling infor me.
- Robert Scoble
dang - I'm going to figure it out one of these days
- Jesse Stay
Francine: don't worry, I don't have one either.
- Robert Scoble
oh robert, no thank YOU
- Loic Le Meur
XMPP is also nice in that completes the last mile.
- Mason Lee
I had a blast being you for 24 hours
- Loic Le Meur
Seemed like a good conference watching it on my iPhone.
- Robert Scoble
XMPP is great for "last mile" as well as for reasonable number of persistent connections on teh backend.
- Bob Wyman
Great conversation guys!
- Ben Hedrington
I LOVED Tony Robbins, I was expecting to hate him so that was a pleasant surprise, best speaker I have ever seen. Such a stage presence. amazing/
- Loic Le Meur
Great show, everyone
- Rob La Gesse
great show!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Enjoyed listening/watching
- Ankush Narula
Great discussion here. Thanks Brett, et al.
- Mason Lee
That was very good - thanks Steve
- Jesse Stay
thank you
- Hilary Talbot
/me is wondering why everyone thanks everyone
- Loic Le Meur
@Loic It's because we americans are so polite!
- Bob Wyman
Thanks, Loic, I was wondering that myself.
- Mason Lee
Errr... That was a joke.
- Bob Wyman
LOL
- Loic Le Meur
social networking
- Arnie Klaus
don't get me started
- Loic Le Meur
Good show Steve, thank you all for making the time.
- David Stratton
You rang?
- John Kalucki
Hey John! When are you going to be on the Gillmor Gang?
- Jesse Stay
quick - get Steve back on video - Twitter is here!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
John is in charge of Twitter's Streaming API, FYI
- Jesse Stay
I totally didn't realize John had a FriendFeed account - awesome
- Jesse Stay
I skimmed most of the conversation. I didn't see any explicit questions to respond to, or that haven't been addressed on the twitter-dev list about pubhub...
- John Kalucki
have you looked at PubSubHubbub John?
- Kevin Marks
As far as the Streaming API rules, we'll work on them. The user TOS and API rules just went out last week.
- John Kalucki
John - except that a lot of the folks who were asking don't regularly read the twitter dev list :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Let me find the link...
- John Kalucki
Heh :-)
- Jesse Stay
I'd just like to be able to standardize my code and not have to re-write for every new social network out there.
- Jesse Stay
But we've had this conversation. :-)
- Jesse Stay
how about activitystrea.ms support, John? You going to write the shim or do we have to?
- Kevin Marks
Activitystrea.ms support seems unlikely. A shim would probably be seen as syndication.
- John Kalucki
Overall, the direction is towards exposing more data types, more predicate types, and supporting more use cases. Format and protocol support, while making developer's lives easier, isn't as high priority as some of the proposed features we're considering.
- John Kalucki
That's too bad John - hard to be the "pulse of the internet" if you're not supporting open standards
- Jesse Stay
Hey JK! Welcome! How goes?
- Ken Sheppardson
Hey Ken. It goes. It goes.
- John Kalucki
Looks like we still have 27 viewers for a test pattern...
- Cliff Gerrish
I missed this shooooooot! need regular calendared events so i can add you guys to my schedule! :)
- Susan Beebe
Francine's blog The United Nations: The United Nations meeting yesterday stunned me. I grew up th.. http://blog.stealthmode.com/2009...
Hilary Talbot liked this
I also like your about page, Francine
- Hilary Talbot
The Maker's Bill of Rights: Illustrated is a cool design, but ... - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
'Maker' is a much broader term, and I don't think hardware/electronic hackers should own it
- Hilary Talbot
from Bookmarklet
Twitter Co-founder Jack Dorsey speaking at Webster University - http://www.webster.edu/jackatw...
Thanks. Love this line: "We thought Twitter would be the best thing ever for junior high and high school kids. It turned out to be the best thing ever for old Unix hackers with beards."
- Amyloo
Me too! I read a little about his next gig Squirrel a while ago; think he is not yet done stirring up the world.
- Hilary Talbot
Ryan cries
Memo.m4a 272 KB
polou/indigo_bow, onur özen, Grant Bierman and 49 other people liked this
7 lbs 13 oz. Born at 11:32 pm. 20.5 inches long.
- Robert Scoble
from email
RSS is alive and well!
- Mark Krynsky
So precious!
- Jesse Stay
awwwwwwwww!
- drew olanoff
Wow Robert that's intense. Congrats.
- JP Holecka - Jaypiddy
such a young cry! - gives me goosebumps. Best wishes to you all.
- Hilary Talbot
Whoa. That is awesome. I kinda like it without the video. It let my form my own images.
- Lise
Now put the smart phone down and start doing the dad thing. ;)
- JP Holecka - Jaypiddy
Amazing. Life!
- Fred
Grats bud...
- Denverken
What a great sound!
- Mike Doeff
You're a freaky guy Mr Scoble :)
- Rhys Amos
He's about 15 minutes old and is already making his voice heard on the internet! I LOVE SOCIAL MEDIA!!! :D
- Danny Minick
Now this is real time ! Great stuff Robert ..... Congrats to you and Maryam (who no doubt did most of the work :)
- Charlie Anzman
aww, so sweet. precious baby...i'm getting all teary-eyed and emotional. if you post a video too i'm going to cry for sure.
- Jodi Church
time to get snipped dude. hehe. congrats.
- geoff hines
Congratulation father!
- Mary
Wow, that is the sweetest sound. I'm about to cry. Such a beautiful life ahead for Ryan :)
- Nakeva Corothers
'real' web , forget time, very real..
- James Watters
Congrats Scoble.
- Jimminy
awesome - congrats!
- kathysd
Good crying! Ours didn't cry much at all because they were so small.
- Louis Gray
the sound of new life entering the world - thanks for sharing now go be with him and leave the interwebs for a bit... congrats!
- Shannon Clark
Congrats!!
- Luca Perugini
from iPhone
Congratulations
- Paul Blasman
Brilliant! As stated RSS is alive and well!
- Sandra Large
Congratulations Robert and Maryam.
- Mark H
Congrats to your family!
- Odi Chi
Congratulations from Europe to you and your wife - a new human being :)
- Harscoat
Congratulations!
- Gokhan Gultoprak
MAZAL TOV!!!❀
- Orli Yakuel
Best to you, Maryam & family, Robert!
- Myrna
Brilliant!
- 1x29
His first podcast! Just like Dad...
- Danny Whitt
from iPhone
Magazine Preview - Carl Jung and the Holy Grail of the Unconscious - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/glogin...
Cool. The pages and drawings shown look so ordered and beautiful, if, as I understood, they were done while he was tangling with it all. An aside: did you see the gratuitous promo links in there?!
- Hilary Talbot
Fasten your seatbelts - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
Hilary Talbot and Karoli liked this
Might want to change it to Threadsy, Steve
- Hilary Talbot
Dear Max Baucus: Get out of my way http://momocrats.typepad.com/momocra... New MOMocrats post.
Mark Jepsen, Anika, Mathew A. Koeneker and 4 other people liked this
Powerful sharing, Karoli.
- Warner Crocker
thanks. it made me feel better to write it. it was either write or throw something through a window.
- Karoli
Powerfully written, Karoli
- Ted Gilchrist
I'm sorry to read about your son, Karoli
- Hilary Talbot
thanks, all. I was completely taken aback by the diabetes surprise...that's a complication that he will have to really work to overcome.
- Karoli
You step up, never away. Claudia Oliver
- SKUNKsINmyATTIC
I'll step up. He stepped away when he tried to pass this pathetic excuse for a stab at bipartisanship as reform.
- Karoli
Just thought that I would send a *hug* your way. :-)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
aww, thank you! much appreciated.
- Karoli
Creation: A film about Charles Darwin [you can't see it] http://www.youtube.com/watch...
![Creation: A film about Charles Darwin [you can't see it] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BREvUKpZTeU](http://img.youtube.com/vi/BREvUKpZTeU/2.jpg "Creation: A film about Charles Darwin [you can't see it] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BREvUKpZTeU")  |
Hilary Talbot liked this
My like is for the film, not the censorship. Luckily, I'll be able to see it here in Australia.
- Hilary Talbot
De-volution?
- Igor Goldkind
@cgerrish Thanks. I was hoping that would be the case. The 1pm timeslot is 6am here.
Would an evening replay be better for you? Say 8pm Pacific Time?
- Cliff Gerrish
It's kind of you to ask! My ideal time would be about 2pm or 3pm Pacific, but anytime from then through to 8pm or even beyond would be good.
- Hilary Talbot
We're still experimenting with ideal replay times. NGL is an international network, so we need to take time zones into account.
- Cliff Gerrish
Thanks Cliff. I'm Eastern Standard Australian time (though I was converting to your times above) if that helps in your deliberations.
- Hilary Talbot
NewsGang Live @ 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Derrick Peters, Susan Beebe, andy brudtkuhl and 18 other people liked this
I know I'll be there, NGL at 1pm.
- Cliff Gerrish
See you there, gang!
- Tom Milsom
Today? On Tuesday? Has it moved from Thursday? (per building43.com/realtime)
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken - we're doing NewsGang Live in a few minutes. Thursday is still Gillmor Gang
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Ah. Got it. Missed the "News" part :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Echo. Fixed.
- Ken Sheppardson
yay!
- Francine Hardaway
Weird hearing everybody at the same time again.
- Ken Sheppardson
Nice for us all to be back!
- Rob La Gesse
What a little cutie pie.
- Amyloo
Great to hear these voices again.
- Mike Doeff
Watching this live :)
- Robert J Taylor
It feels just like 2008 except that Obama won!
- Michael Pinto
Those of you on video - get your mouse cursor off your faces :)
- Rob La Gesse
where is the video for Francine Hardaway - we need to see the dogs!
- Michael Pinto
Is there a link to Tom's material?
- Mike Doeff
Thanks Ken
- Mike Doeff
brilliant and poignant tune
- Eran Even-Kesef
The Internets Got Talent with Steve Gillmor
- Dave Martin
Two fer Tuesday!!
- Matt Terenzio
Excellent
- Amyloo
claps
- Mike Doeff
I just got home, anything happen? Too many interviews packed into today.
- Robert Scoble
Unless Phil can sing his response I think it's unfair
- Michael Pinto
robert they've just been getting started
- Michael Pinto
Robert - You missed introductions and Tom's song.
- Ken Sheppardson
All depends on your perspective Robert
- Matt Terenzio
phil why are you opposed to a public option?
- Eran Even-Kesef
@MichaelPinto - sounds like Phil's rapping his response :)
- Robert J Taylor
I'll just listen in.
- Robert Scoble
Intros - Steve, Michael Markman, Karoli, Francine Hardaway, Rob La Gesse, Tom Milsom and Phil Windley. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
where is loren feldman?
- HansVanRock
loren was on last week
- Michael Pinto
Loren has been on GillmorGang. That's Thursday. This is NewsGang
- Ken Sheppardson
@Hans - tending to puppets? *shrug*
- Robert J Taylor
well, then a loren puppet would be cool
- HansVanRock
loren is deep into the study of his Shari Lewis videos
- Dave Martin
@Hans - yep :)
- Robert J Taylor
so what you are saying is that we need a public option, if medicare and medicaid needs to come into the debate
- Eran Even-Kesef
it's not so much the republicans - but the lobbyists for the health insurance companies, keep in mind that many blue dog Dems are the problem
- Michael Pinto
yes a few blue dogs and ALL republicans are opposed
- Eran Even-Kesef
Failing the senate 60 they will be pushed into reconciliation
- Dave Martin
Phil? Explain, specifically, why you feel a free market is so essential for our HEALTH? We discuss this like there's some mystery about alternatives. Canada's system is less than perfect, but try finding an unhappy Canadian. You can't. Why is that? Why do THEY make it work, but we can't? Explain that to us. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009...
- Shoq
Rudy is just adding noise to the debate
- Michael Pinto
jet plane overhead
- Tina Chase Gillmor
as long as you dont need to use your plan in a serious way, you will remain happy with the plan
- Eran Even-Kesef
The seniors are upset. They don't want cuts to Medicare.
- Francine Hardaway
Phil is right in that Harry Reid hasn't done a good job of making thecase
- Michael Pinto
I dont thinks cuts to medicare are seriously on the table, part of the death panel myth
- Eran Even-Kesef
the longer the issue drags on the longer it looks like you don't know what you're doing - so it has hurt, look at the poll numbers
- Michael Pinto
Without seniors there's no profit in the system, that's the dirty little secret. The system is built on the backs of those most in need.
- Dave Martin
half white
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Triggers are the mid-term cycle hedge
- Dave Martin
Peter B Lewis's Progressive Insurance offers thousands of employees great plans for under $100 a month. Now why can HE do that, and not the rest of our employers? I don't know the answer, but I suspect it's because it's an HONEST insurance company working on volume, with constraints that prevent them from gambling with the pool of money. A public option can work the same way, and that's why the Insurance industry simply won't stand for a public option. Fairness is unfair competition to them.
- Shoq
those 10 points are very real if you're running in 2010
- Michael Pinto
Read this: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...
- Francine Hardaway
Triggers are bullshit. Before a trigger could ever kick in, they'd change the rules. It just plays into the industry's hegemony over the process.
- Shoq
we lost Markman...trying to get him back
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Steve, It's a moral issue
- Dave Martin
5 jets in five minutes
- Tina Chase Gillmor
How can @kr8tr think they'll be happy with anything less than a total takeover of the whole healthcare system? ;-)
- Robert J Taylor
Karoli - you're unmuted again
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Why can't we address the people in need through our existing Social Security system? If you are in need of healthcare, apply for it through social security. We can put into place some income guidelines, etc. pretty easily.
- Stephen M. Otto
Phil. Republicans have been saying that for 60 years
- Shoq
"dealing with the people who most need it" would just mean dumping more money into SS and Medicaid, no? Or are we talking about some new benefits program? If the problem is systemic, you can't just treat a symptom.
- Ken Sheppardson
there's not universal support for that from health insurance companies
- Michael Pinto
Health insurance is NOT Healthcare. http://www.blondetwit.com/2009...
- Shoq
You guys are so last year. Mark Foley just got his own radio show :)
- Shoq
Having not read the entire blondetwit post, I'll just point out that I've always thought "health insurance for pre-existing conditions" is sort of an oxymoron.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: I am confident that the other issues can be addressed by removing gov restrictions from insurance...let insurance be offered across state boundaries, increase competition. If you find yourself without the ability to get coverage due to a pre-existing condition, this could also be addressed by applying for coverage through this suggested extension of social security. Also: tort reform.
- Stephen M. Otto
Getting a show means very little, the ball game is attracting, sustaining a competitive audience; stay tuned ;-)
- Dave Martin
Rob La Gasse, has the most reasonable argument, dealing with those who are currently uninsured should be the first priority
- Eran Even-Kesef
Stephen: I was just addressing Rob's comment that we just deal with the folks who most need it and not try to fix it all at the same time. The fundamental problem, BTW is we have lots of problems that can't be solved in 4 to 8 years. Our system is unable to deal with stuff that requires consistent objectives and approaches over a longer period.
- Ken Sheppardson
tort reform would prove to be a third-rail issue for the dems in the mid-terms
- Dave Martin
Cost controls are simply bullshit. They've talked about cost controls for 40 years. Medicare has NO ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE PRICES. WTF are you talking about?
- Shoq
Eran: we have an infrastructure in place for this. It's called Social Security, complete with Administrative Law Judges, case workers, etc.
- Stephen M. Otto
People want access to the current healthcare our country has today...we've got to be careful that we don't change the quality of care while providing access...
- Robert J Taylor
Dave. more bullshit from the past. Medical malpractice is not even 1% of medical costs. That's anoteher lie to give the right more favors for OTHER business
- Shoq
Eran - and we have borrowed heavily against it.
- Rob La Gesse
Shoq: how can you quantify defensive medicine?
- Stephen M. Otto
So when can I listen to this? Let me guess, video only? I wonder if a bootleg will show up…
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
Robert. our quality of care is not good compared to many other countries. We provide quality specialty care and suboptimal primary care and care for chronic disease.
- Francine Hardaway
Shoq - you're looking at it from a med costs pov when it's really important b/c it harms providers by reaching prohibitive levels of staying in business - ask any physician
- Dave Martin
The answer to defensive medicine is not to suddenly remove any remaining safeguards thee are. The vast majority of doctors are never sued. This is another distraction. Defensive medicine is just the latest rhetoric used by the AMA to dazzle the nation with bullshit.
- Shoq
Beautiful song, there is hope in the air!
- Eran Even-Kesef
You mean the physicians who own most of the MRI facilities in DC? When you have conflicts like that, you dont' deserve to be at the table. The entire system is bass akwards. It's not about health care. It's about profit-care
- Shoq
I second the motion
- Eran Even-Kesef
We talk about thisproblem as if the problem has no solution. We are the ONLY major nation without one, and its' simply absurd.
- Shoq
Shoq: You are right we are the only industrialized nation with out one, but we have a history of doing things differently, not always the best way.
- Eran Even-Kesef
thanks to everyone!
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Shoq, yeah it's a damn shame we can't come up with a way to totally mess over all the shareholders of those profitable companies, esp those stupid investors that are on fixed incomes depending on distributions.
- Dave Martin
Eran, and that history is coming up pretty short. It's time to find another way. Because as steve points out, we can't afford this.
- Shoq
These shareholders were oblivious for years, allowing their boards to run us into the ground. At this point, it's just one more bubble to burst, as this country escapes the mass delusions of the past 30 years. You cannot run a nation out of balance, where most of the wealth and justice trickles up to the top, and only the shit trickles down. It cannot continue like this, and no 9th...
more...
- Shoq
I agree and I argue that the only solution is a universal healthcare model, unfortunatly, to many of us are blind, miss-informed and just plain greedy. Therefore a gradual approach that Rob suggested seems to be the only practical alternative.
- Eran Even-Kesef
By the way we have a simlair situation in our education system, where there is a 50% dropout rate in the urban areas, this is can also be directly corelated to the healthcare system, and for that matter an example of our parallel tiered societies. Gosh I am sounding very radical, even though I am not.
- Eran Even-Kesef
what Shoq said.
- Michael Markman
While we are fixing/rebooting/rethinking things, might as well throw down on education and the justice/penal systems
- Dave Martin
Dave-I agree with you, there is much that needs fixing
- Eran Even-Kesef
Getting meta here...this was a good show with good discussion -- good conversation in the chat, too. NOT typical for on-line politically-charged forums!
- Robert J Taylor
Hey everyone, next time I'll figure out how to comment and be on the show at the same time. My little muddled head couldn't multitask today, but I had a great time and really enjoyed the back and forth. I'd like to give Phil Windley huge kudos for having a great counterpoint and reasonable approach. thanks to all who listened, too.
- Karoli
I agree with Karoli. Reasonable, sane Republicans seem to be an endangered species. I'm sorry my contributions were so sparse. Tech problems on my end kept punting me from the call.
- Michael Markman
Tom Milsom (@hexachordal) has posted lyrics to the healthcare song he sang on newsgang live earlier today. http://bit.ly/ptEBO Says if there's demand, he'll post a recording, too.
- Michael Markman
Michael, I would LOVE a recording. That thing would be completely viral. Does he have a FB fan page?
- Karoli
we'll rerun at 1PM Pacific tomorrow.
- Steve Gillmor
Thank you for rerunning.
- Hilary Talbot
Not just for me (but I'll admit my motivation is because I can't see it), you might want to think about varying the time of the re-run, or adding more so they're not all at the same time on weekworkdays. If possible.
- Amyloo
I agree with Amyloo. Also, now that the show has an international panel, ythere's even more reason to provide reruns that play in a variety of time-slots.
- Michael Markman
NewsGang Live now replaying at http://building43.com/realtime
- Cliff Gerrish
cool show, thanks!
- Hilary Talbot
re incremental reform, sometimes it just doesn't work. I'm thinking of decimal conversion.
- Hilary Talbot
Hilary, I just wrote a post about how I think the best way to transition to single payer should go...on a state by state basis.
- Karoli
Thanks, Karoli, it's a good post. I can see state-by-state might be the most workable approach in such a ferociously complicated issue. It's easy for outsiders like me to forget how much independence exists in your state federal relationships.
- Hilary Talbot
Sad that I can't see this show. Wish I could.
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
Anyone have a recording of this?
- Michael Breslin
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Jack
This little gecko was luckier http://www.mlive.com/lions... , though I guess it depends on whose side you take!
whoa something weird with shortening the gecko link, try http://spiritsdancing.com/sdblog...
- Hilary Talbot
ooh... I missed GillmorGang Live
Don't worry; it was only NewsGang Live. GG should be Thursday
- Jack
Only?
- Cliff Gerrish
@cgerrish exactly, Cliff. I love both GG and NGL, @thefakejack.
- Hilary Talbot
Special Gillmor Gang realtime rerun 1PM Pacific today http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Susan Beebe, Josh Fraser, Denise Howell and 12 other people liked this
I missed this Gillmor Gang the first time, I was working...
- Cliff Gerrish
lot of buffering right now, unwatchable, or is it just me?
- HansVanRock
Working for me. Seems pretty smooth.
- Cliff Gerrish
thought mine had buffering probs till I realized I had it opened in two windows
- Michael Metz
geez, i've been looking all over for this. JUST NOW found it.
- Karoli
anyone know if it's available on itunes?
- Michael Metz
Try http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... for older shows
- Jack
I understand it'll eventually be available on YouTube.
- Cliff Gerrish
this is cracking me up. LOL...
- Karoli
Where was Feldman? Love the setting he's in.
- Karoli
dude, scoble's feed looks like mine. and he has a zillion more follows.
- Karoli
can't get the video on my iphone. what's up with that?
- Karoli
got it -- ustream viewer on iPhone. not as smooth as it is on the mac
- Karoli
that's "punked", not "pwned", but it's all good :)
- Kurtiss Hare
thx kurtis
- Steve Gillmor
holy shit. Loren trusts CNN? that's his first mistake.
- Karoli
thx for watching RObert
- Steve Gillmor
So, was this the first episode since the new setup?
- Kurtiss Hare
more in that I sort of know how the feed went but can get a different view while watching. both are similar experiences
- Steve Gillmor
totally impressed w/video quality and stream on my mac...iphone is a little more herky-jerky via UStream app.
- Karoli
Robert, me too. I used to listen to Newsgang LIve afterwards too, because being in it and seeing it later are so different.
- Karoli
Kurtis yes, we had several false starts
- Steve Gillmor
I'll buy one.
- Kurtiss Hare
I'm enjoying this - thanks for replaying it, Steve
- Hilary Talbot
ROFL...we are definitely in a theater.
- Karoli
lol, the meltdowns continue
- Mark
Does David Sanborn appreciate cell phone use during his live sets?
- Kurtiss Hare
this is great. love it. such high theatre.
- Karoli
"cell phone off" doesn't mean the same thing as "ringer off" does it? Too much talking... not enough listening...
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm waiting for him to stream one of those live sets. (and don't tell Loren I tweet from church...LOL)
- Karoli
david sanborn loves when people tweet about his show during concerts
- Steve Gillmor
this is AWESOME
- Mark
feldman is ALL OVER Scoble
- Mark
this is better watching the second time around
- Jay Cuthrell
Loren should do his own talk show
- Jesse Stay
+1 Jesse (same thought just 2 seconds to late)
- HansVanRock
Loren -is- his own talk show
- Jay Cuthrell
lolllllllllllllllllllll
- Mark
Great great delivery
- Jay Cuthrell
I tuned in late and got hit in the face with this... hm. Missed what brought down Loren's wrath on Robert.
- Ken Sheppardson
Loren's all over the place, by his own logic, why should CNN be authoritative when they're not the ones making the news?
- Kurtiss Hare
Ken - There is a FF thread over in building43 that covered the back and forth for the original live airing
- Jay Cuthrell
this is the point where i want to thank Steve that Gillmor Gang is back
- HansVanRock
steve, where did you just post your reply re: Sanborn loving tweets during sets? I can't find it on this thread...(confusion)
- Karoli
what the fuck just happened
- Mark
rock on, Steve. great show, so glad it's back.
- Karoli
here you Ken: http://friendfeed.com/realtim...
- Jay Cuthrell
thats it?
- HansVanRock
AND SCENE
- Jay Cuthrell
with all the respect to you GANG you can do this better in close doors sorry
- Johni Fisher
Keith Jarrett would probably just end the concert. Suppose it depends on the artistic temperament.
- Kurtiss Hare
Loren and Scoble at each other's throats. Theatre. Drama. Fake blood. Professional wrestling at its most amateur.
- Michael Markman
Sigh. Somebody lemme know where there's an RSS feed for the bootleg audio, will ya?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, have you looked over on UStream? There may be video there...
- Karoli
I checked UStream but the only archives are Steve playing with the initial setup.
- Jay Cuthrell
there will be a YouTube version soon
- Steve Gillmor
The quality of the broadcast (technology) is outstanding
- Jay Cuthrell
Steve : why always to fight ?
- Johni Fisher
where can I subscribe to this show?
- No Agenda Forums
Johni life can be a struggle
- Steve Gillmor
there will be an RSS feed on gillmorgang.techcrunch.com
- Steve Gillmor
Steve DO you really think that Feldman is a Gang member ? speaking as he spoke to Robert ?
- Johni Fisher
The Gillmor Gang is who I say it is
- Steve Gillmor
and ?
- Johni Fisher
just subscribed to http://friendfeed.com/realtim... having it sent to FF notifier popup.
- Karoli
Johni, Feldman might be a LIfetime Gang member. Just sayin'. :)
- Karoli
and what?
- Steve Gillmor
Thanks Steve. Looking forward to listening.
- No Agenda Forums
GG is amorphous, but I sure do miss a voice like Udell's, back in the day.
- Kurtiss Hare
thanks for listening No Agenda
- Steve Gillmor
I was thinking about the limitations on TV broadcast video for a simulcast with sidebar conversation... not sure how many people have 62" TV's yet that would support offload to a interstital and separate chat window (reminds me of early AOL experiments with interactive pre-IPTV)
- Jay Cuthrell
I talk with Udell all the time, just not on the air recently
- Steve Gillmor
[ (TV) (sidebar) ] would be a pretty big screen
- Jay Cuthrell
okay, later. Lots of fun, Steve, thanks for rerunning for lamers like me who missed the first round.
- Karoli
good to see you Karoli
- Steve Gillmor
I just like how varied the personalities are on the show. Bass. Drums. Guitar. Harmonica.
- Jay Cuthrell
back to work... later folks
- Jay Cuthrell
If anyone missed this rerun there's an MP3 here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/bootleg...
- Jack
thx jack
- Christopher Harris
Thx for the bootleg Jack!
- Kahlil Lechelt
Yes thanks very much for the bootlegs Jack, much appreciated all around.
- Michael Breslin
btw thank you for recording the prev show!
- Michael Pinto
Listened to the bootleg feed, great show. I doubt I'll ever watch live as I'm more a radio guy. Loren's comment as being a trusted source for reporting the Michael Jackson funeral has a disturbing similarity to Blackwater being a trusted source for the US Military. I'm all for keeping Feldman and Keen on the show and it was great hearing Calacanis again, Scoble on the other hand.... It's your show Steve
- Jason Adams
Just returned from holiday to discover that Steve has put the gang back together. Great first show. Love the fact that Steve no longer sounds like a call-in guest on his own show. Thanks to whoever set up the bootleg mp3 feed - vital for this long-term listener. Keep up the good work, chaps and chapesses!
- Richard Carter, FCD
from iPhone
Did anyone else feel that today we reached some new height in craziness in American politics, kinda from all directions?
Josette Torres, Morton Fox, Mr. Gunn and 5 other people liked this
No, was unplugged, what happened?
- Bora Zivkovic
I found the opposition to Obama addressing school kids so crazy it is hard to believe. Aust ABC World Today commentary (http://www.abc.net.au/worldto... - about 42 minute mark, Friday 4th Sept) describes it as a sign of how 'disfunctional and poisonous politics in America has become'.
- Hilary Talbot
Onwards and upwards!
- Andrew C
It's always a crazy day when someone gets a finger bitten off.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
I'm a big believer that things sometimes have to get worse before they get better, but really, how much worse can we get? Biting off fingers and pulling kids out of school so they won't hear a speech from the president? Just what are they afraid of?
- Mr. Gunn
Seems like it's gotten to the point where a partisan meme that should squarely be in the "shouldn't dignify that question with an answer" column just feeds a wild fire that won't stop burning. No one knows what the utter irrationality is going to consume next, but the dark skies are ominous.
- Micah Wittman
@Mr. Gunn: you don't want to know "how much worse" it can get.
- Anthony Citrano
AP published a photo of a dying US soldier. Good or bad? (Imho bad.) http://www.politico.com/news...
Harold Cabezas, Dimitrios Diamantaras, Arnaud Fischer and 2 other people liked this
Context is important here. How many pics of dying people have we had that now define history. There is the buddist monk who set himself on fire in protest. The the famous photo of the napalm girl from Vietnam. Those are just the ones i can name off the the top of my head. Theres the ones of RFK as well. But each and every life lost is tragic. The next of kin should have been asked first before publication, in any case.
- Roberto Bonini
Yup. There's also the Vietnamese colonel putting a bullet in the head of the suspected Vietcong. http://images.scripting.com/archive...
- Dave Winer
With the Smith and Wesson Chief's Special. Yeah. I forgot about that one.
- Roberto Bonini
There are post-death pictures of Benito Mussolini also. In the case you cited, an argument was made that the family should have consented before this newsworthy picture was taken. But was Mussolini's family, or the Kennedy family, consulted before Benito's and Robert's pictures were published? And does it make any difference whether or not the person was already a public figure before...
more...
- John E. Bredehoft
The Pulitzer winning Kent State photo also comes to mind - http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue00...
- Ranger Craig
How about the woman who was killed in the crackdown in Tehran
- Dave Winer
This is obviously a topic for Rebooting the News.
- Dave Winer
Ah, forgot about that her too, Dave. Good point.
- Roberto Bonini
There's debate as to whether it was staged, but one of the most dramatic examples is "The Falling Solider" from the Spanish Civil in 1936: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- Zach Seward
And from much earlier, the American Civil War: http://www.ipeters.de/photogr...
- Zach Seward
As an aside, the Vietnamese girl Kim Phuc didn't die. She now has children of her own, runs a foundation for children who have been victims of war, and she's a UN goodwill ambassador.
- Hilary Talbot
The baby girl in a firefighter's arms after the Oklahoma City bombing.
- Louis Gray
Not bad. The soldier was photographed in a public moment, war is not a private affair. I haven't made up my mind yet on whether the individual's name should have been public knowledge (didn't see the original AP article, was it?).
- okyrhoe
If I were his family, I would hate it - like the 17 yo girl's family after the police put photos of her wrecked Porsche and dead body online. However, other than that, there is nothing morally wrong with this photo. It's just information.
- Gary Walter (gwalter)
Americans should have to look at every dead or dying soldier or civilian casualty of war. This is the reality hidden behind all the posturing and lies.
- thegeniusfiles
Neither good, nor bad, but rather, life. A part of life that too many are shielded from.
- Harold Cabezas
Would anyone be up for a YouTube Streams session to watch the new Gillmor Gang and chat together? What would be a good time? (If it's up this weekend, and provided stevegillmor or Rackspace wouldn't rather coordinate themselves.) Here's how it works according to Andrew Baron http://dembot.com/post...
Cliff Gerrish liked this
maybe... I certainly want to catch up with the video when it comes out
- Hilary Talbot
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