Hrag

Wow...A complete dismissal of Thomas' Hawk's account. Uber lame and disappointing. Guess they didn't bother to look at the pics either. - Alex Scoble CISSP

what's the context? - Paul Whitaker

yeah their official response is disappointing. - Alan Le

so much for "the customer is always right" not only that, they painted the customer a pervert to boot. They truly do not know what the repercussions of something like this can amount to. Oh yeah, I forgot, we're just a bunch of computer nerds. - Carlos Ayala

Thomas Hawk also gave more details: http://thomashawk.com/2008/08/... - Robert Scoble

What a crazy statement...as someone who is an art blogger and someone who has been harassed at museums for taking photos I wouldn't be surprised if it was SFMOMA's stupidity that caused the incident....what does "being photographed in an inappropriate and harassing manner" mean anyway? - Hrag

That is steaming load of PR-spin. - Andy Roth

fire, meet gasoline - Josh Haley

Wow -- they're prepared to defend a libel suit. - Chris Baskind

This was very dismissive. - Michael

Regardless of whether we agree or disagree with their statement, the point is, they issued a statement. - Mona N.

I would like to think of myself as having no affiliations either way. I don't know jack about Thomas except that he is a photographer. I have never heard of this museum until this incident. That being the case, this response ****ing sucks. It's not even a response, it's almost libelous. WOW - Rah™

At least they issued a statement. The statement itself was completely dismissing any concerns brought up about how the situation was handled. It was almost accusatory and that doesn't sit very well. - Candace Holly

Well, this is going to be an unpopular opinion - but I think the handling of this incident was just unfortunate - not evil. Since I know nothing of Thomas or how he presents himself I have no idea how he handled the incident at the time but let's be honest the whole "I'm gonna blog about this!" thing must be getting old for just about everyone who deals with the public. I can understand it not carrying any real power. - Soulhuntre

I'm glad they acknowledged the incident, but the way they did it makes me more disappointed in them, not angry. Either way, I don't think that the situation was handled very well from the SF MOMA. - Michael

At least they responded. I don't have a problem with the response. They're in the business of art not pacifying cranky bloggers who take every opportunity to get in the face of people with their camera. I'm amazed at how blindly people have piled onto this story. He was asked to stop and then kept photographing. He inflamed the situation. The fact he got kicked out writely or wrongly is as much his fault as Blints. Not a surprise this is hardly a concern of SF Moma's - Jim Goldstein

That isn't even a good attempt at a steaming pile of PR spin. I wanted to see if there was going to be a reasonable representation on the other side but instead they pull out the generic "protecting you from scary people with possible dslr weapons. " - Not Not Geoff Schultz

In this day and age where sexual harassment lawsuits are a dime a dozen frankly the museum stands to lose much more if a female employee even FEELS uncomfortable than if they toss out a visitor. This is definitely a rock / hard place issue. We have no idea if the employees received other complaints - we simply don't know. I can also understand him not looking at the images... this sort of thing is often not a judgment call but one of policy. Does it suck? yes. Was it evil? No. - Soulhuntre

I AM amused by the faux concern in Hawk's blog entry about how sorry he is for how much damage this will do to Blint "for years to come". The answer? It will cause him ZERO damage in any way that matters. Future employers will see him as someone who followed policy in the face of what amounts to a personal threat (albeit a minor and non violent one - "I'll blog you!") and they know that when you interface with the public some folks will be upset. - Soulhuntre

What a load of crap. As usual the bullies go unpunished. - DAVE ID

A dismissive response would have worked just fine for me had they left out the part about public safety and whatnot. - Rah™

I'm sorry, but there's nothing from the other side that contradicts what Thomas wrote about the incident. It's obvious from his pictures that he wasn't taking photos in a sexually harassing way. And the manager at the museum should have done a better job of dealing with the situation instead of giving someone with a public voice grist for their mill. And yes, when someone says "I'm going to blog about this", in this day and age you better take it seriously... - Alex Scoble CISSP

Unless you like reading about how you were a jerkweed all over the web. - Alex Scoble CISSP

@Alex Scoble Let me know how it goes the next time someone asks you to stop what you're doing and you keep doing it in there face. Blint is charged with security and safety it is not in his job description to be up on what types of lenses are for what type of photography. If he received a complaint he did his job in following up on it. With a more civil approach perhaps he then might have looked at Andrew/Thomas' photos. That option went out the window with AP/TH's mode of addressing the issue. - Jim Goldstein

My reply to SF MOMA (I've sent them several unreplied-to emails over the last few days): "I'm happy to see that the museum has responded to the incident but it's extremely disappointing that you have completely ignored the central dispute: Whether the photographer was actually acting in the manner that Mr. Blint accused him of. The fact remains that Mr. Hawk wasn't taking revealing or invasive photos (as such photos would be impossible with the 14mm lens he was using), and that instead of addressing this in a 'we made a mistake in the interests of diligence' the museum has instead chosen to be as blind to any facts that are inconvenient to their actions as Mr. Blint was." - Kevin Fox

This is what they have said publicly. Their only other choice probably was to apologize to Thomas/Andrew and rebuke, demote or fire the offender. So they are facing potential lawsuits on all sides and chose the cowardly least risk route. Bets that Mr. Blint will still be on the staff in his position a year from now? - Brian Sullivan

Really good to know he did not act on his own & his livelihood is secure. Clearly an over-reaction of power by a few in a simple misunderstanding. - Mrsth

@Mona & Josh- Right on.... - Mrsth

[My note to SFMOMA management] It is clear that Simon Blint acted irresponsibly and with inflated self-importance in ejecting Thomas Hawk from the SFMOMA. His failure to even discuss the matter at the time and his insistence upon refusing to examine the evidence before leveling extreme charges against Mr. Hawk is disgusting and reprehensible. That the SFMOMA issued a press release that yet again looks past the obvious and indisputable facts of the incident and blindly denies any culpability, leaves me utterly disappointed in your institution. It would have been simple enough to admit that your employee overreacted and acknowledge the original misunderstanding. Instead, you chose to stoke the flames and deny Mr. Blint's clearly unprofessional and incendiary conduct. In that light, I would like you to know that I will not be renewing my membership at the SFMOMA. Furthermore, despite being a fervent promoter of your recent Chinese Contemporary Art exhibit, I will actively discourage friends, colleagues, and - Christopher Sacca

not quite the response i was expecting. i thought it was a general rule for such establishments to be on the customers side... or rather ... visitors side - Chris Farrugia

... visitors from exploring your museum. I hope that someday you might understand that the sheer existence of your once-great institution is a privilege and a result of the will of the community. Stop taking that for granted. - Christopher Sacca

... but now we have seen the photos in question, realize that their was nothing inappropriate occurring and would like to apologize for the misunderstanding? - John Worthington

Ironically, if SF MOMA is trying to shield themselves against a lawsuit, the phrase they use, "He took measures to protect another staff member who according to witnesses on our staff and among the general public was being photographed in an inappropriate and harassing manner" may do more to open the museum to slander than anything they've done yet. If the museum staff refused, when offered, to ascertain for themselves if any 'inappropriate or harassing' photography was actually taking place, yet they persist in stating publicly that their employees *did* ascertain that this was the case, they open the door to a slander case by continuing to make public accusations which they now know to be false. - Kevin Fox

"This was not an issue relating to the museum’s official photography policy." - REALLY ?? then why did they change the official photography policy statement on their web pages BEFORE releasing this statement ?? http://friendfeed.com/e/4db888... - Peter Dawson

talk about a brush off. Lame response, and if they refused to look at the photos, there was no fair justice. Sack the guy and apologize SFMOMA - Duncan Riley

Jim, actually it is in his job description to know what the heck he's talking about when he makes an accusation. To not be practical and to have some sort of people skills. He obviously failed in all of these. And I don't know why you lump Andrew P into this issue or why you think that the option of looking at the photos was thrown out by Thomas Hawk's behavior. Clearly, as stated by Thomas Hawk, Blint never gave the option any thought whatsoever. This is a major failure of public relations for the museum. - Alex Scoble CISSP

Great to see the SF MOMA standing behind their staff. Note that they didn't use any names to identify those involved with the incident. That's how you do it, people. - lane hartwell

@Kevin Fox - unless of course such testimony DOES exist and the incident as we have been presented from only one side, by a person the vast majority of readers know nothing of personally, including myself, is not as it would seem. In short, it is entirely possible that there was more than one person acting with over-inflated importance and contributing to the issue. In my experience people who threaten "I'll blog! You'll be sorry!" also seem a bit full of themselves. I doubt this is as clear cut as it seems - Soulhuntre

"14mm lens simply cannot produce a "down blouse" shot with any level of detail whatsoever" -and if this is a fact, then to the best of my knowledge it goes against the grain of their statement " was being photographed in an inappropriate and harassing manner".. Sue Sue Sue is what I yell !! Remember TH also has a witness ..who was nearly thrown out ! - Peter Dawson

Hmm...wonder if Eleanor Holmes Norton is interested in this issue. It's not in her district, but she's interested in the general idea of photography rights. - Ontario Emperor

Kevin -- Even if there was normally some potential for lawsuit the museum knows that Thomas/Andrew is extremely unlikely to pursue. I am pretty sure he wishes the whole affair had not happened and that his reaction was less incendiary. - Brian Sullivan

Let's be honest - the actual fallout from all this FF fury over this will be zero. The SFMOMA visitor rates won't drop even a little and no ones life was ruined or career destroyed. Heck, having some blogger annoyed at you these days is getting downright common :) Again, I am sure this could have been handled better, but there is almost certainly more to this story than we have seen. - Soulhuntre

"This was not an issue relating to the museum’s official photography policy. In fact, SFMOMA recently made a policy change to allow photographers to take pictures of the permanent collection, the architecture of the building, and the museum’s public spaces." Is it me or do they contradict themselves in the space of a paragraph? - Roberto Bonini

Soulhuntre... I guess it is ok to leave an accusation of inappropriate behaviour standing - John Worthington

OK, here is the simple test... Can I now stand on that exact same spot, with the exact same lens and take the exact same shot without being thown out... The answer to that is the crux of this whole issue. - John Worthington

And the initial blog post was NOT an unsupported accusation of bias, policy breaking and personal animosity? At least SF MOMA had the restraint to not try and splatter individual names across the web. Lets be honest, they have taken the high road here. They got complaints, they acted according to policy and they only mentioned it publicly when pushed hard by others and did not name names. There is no slander or libel here. - Soulhuntre

Here is my opinion: http://blog.justinkorn.com/ind... - Justin Korn

But what would that test prove? If the answer is that I'd get kicked out, then does that justify Thomas's ouster? If I can do it and *not* get kicked out, then doesn't that mean that the museum, while learning its lesson, behaved inappropriately? - Kevin Fox

Also, to answer John's "TEST," - http://www.flickr.com/search/?... - Justin Korn

why can't i get this post off the top of my alert thingy alert list? annoying... - Nathan via Alert Thingy

Justin, Thanks. Now how about some from the second floor of the Atrium, on a DSLR with a 'High Powered Zoom Lens' and taken after this issued occured :P - John Worthington

@John - then you would have to recreate any other factors, then behave as Thomas behaved (we don't know how that was, BTW) and then see if you get thrown out.Remember, the contention is that he only came to their attention from complains by others... not that they are actively policing for this. - Soulhuntre

Justin, indeed, but is every person who stands in that spot with that lens and at that angle now automatically a pervert? A precedence has been set... - John Worthington

@John - that is not the issue (in my mind). As I stated on my blog, the museum's management has every right to react if they believe an employee is being harassed, but there is a right and wrong way to handle the situation. I'm guessing, Blint reacted inappropriately and Hawk reacted back. - Justin Korn

Justin, but that IS the issue in many respects and why this has taken on a life of its own. While I respect the rights of the employees, do I also have the right to stand their and make that shot, a totally appropriate one, without fear that I will be accused of being a pervert? I understand the need for protection but what about my right to defend myself and continue my activity. I do not beleive TH was given that oppertunity, hence the sense of injustice. - John Worthington

@John, I agree. Anyone has the right, according to the policy, to take that photo. This is why I believe the situation was handled inappropriately from the get go by SFMOMA's staff. We are on the same track :) - Justin Korn

Nice :) - John Worthington

I continue to be amazed by the lemming like behaviour of the blogerati. Take Duncan Riley for instance who sez "... sack the guy" based on very little factual information. What is FACT is that Andrew Peterson has had a history of skirmishes and blogging about it. What is FACT is that Andrew Peterson has openly acknowledged that he has taken pictures in various institutions including the SF MOMA on previous occasions against policy (at that time) whilst trying to downplay it by calling it renegade photography which is downright stupid. That's what is true. http://bit.ly/asshat Sad that people pass judgement without understanding. - Leather Donut

Pretty standard CYA stuff from the SFMOMA lawyers. They are obviously afraid of their employee, and don't really care what happened. Eyewitness accounts -- and the photographs themselves -- show what the situation was. If Blint would have taken the time to look at the photographs, there would not have been any incident. Instead, he got on his power trip and decided to show that he has some authority in his sad little world. - Jeremy Brooks

On the bright side, the next time Blint is looking for a job, there is a possibility that his prospective employer will google his name and find out that he does not belong in any position of responsibility, especially if the job involves dealing with the public. - Jeremy Brooks

great PR .. there was an incident, we feel we were right, here's our prices, come out and see us! - Tim Hoeck

This is ridiculous. Completely dismissing someone else's account is not the way to confront a customers complaint. They're basically saying. "We stand behind our employees so this guy is making everything up". Why don't you grow some balls and call Thomas Hawk or anyone else involved SFMOMA? Clearly they are in the wrong but won't do anything about it. - Brandon Titus

Blint made an accusation, did not even care to check the proffered evidence to see if this accusation had any grounds in reality, then kicked Hawk out, apparently to prove he was the bigger man. This certainly seems to make Blint a jerk. SFMOMA publishes a BS "we are right and high and mighty" response; this makes them out to be jerks who should be avoided. - MiniMage LightBlueRanger

Well, I just read their response and it is about as benign as it could be. I wonder how many lawyers it took to write that couple of sentences. - Jeff P. Henderson

One thing that disturbs me is that they said in their response that witnesses on their staff and among the general public reported to I assume Simon that the 'visitor' was photographing an employee in an "inappropriate and harassing manner". Assuming TH has told us all of the details, no one ever attempted to find out what or who he was actually photographing or substantiate the claims by the employee's or guests before they publicly accused him of doing so. People misinterpret others actions all of the time. It is very dangerous for someone in an authority role to accept complaints from bystanders without first substantiating the accusation. Regardless of how TH might have acted at the time, it was the failure of the SF MOMA to investigate this issue up front before making harsh accusations and threats of ejection, that lead the ugly situation we have today. - Jeff P. Henderson

I've been accused of doing something I wasn't before and I know how it feels. Recently I was photographing some street musicians in downtown Santa Cruz who happened to be located about 20' across from a bank teller machine. I was about 10-15' from the machine with my back to it. I gave the musicians a donation and they said it was OK to take their photo, so I shot about a half a dozen frames listened for a few minutes and then proceeded down the street. About 10 steps down the street, a cop stopped me and asked if I had been taking photos of the bank machine. He said someone reported to him that I had. I had not. I told him what I had been shooting and that I had no interest in the bank machine. He Was happy with that explanation and moved on. But I was quite annoyed afterword that someone would accuse me of doing something that I clearly did not do. - Jeff P. Henderson

(cont) BTY I was shooting with a 5D + Battery grip + 24-70L lens, quit an intimidating package. My point is that people make accusations all of the time for what ever reason. Some people feel that they are being good citizens for reporting 'suspicious' behavior. Some are miss informed about what is legal and what is not, in this case with respect to public photography. Some people are intimidated by big cameras. (I see it in peoples reactions to my camera even though I rarely shoot people when in public, and keep the camera low and/or out of site when I'm not shooting.) Some accusations can be quite damaging if not properly substantiated by the authority figure who is left to deal with them. Here's one of my shots http://www.flickr.com/photos/j... - Jeff P. Henderson

I don't know what to say, that post resonates on many levels with me. Especially on lists being irrelevant. Damn right! - Mo Kargas

"thiefdom" LOL - Jason Carreira

Don't miss it one bit. - David Cohn

We don't need Digg or Reddit to survive, either. - Chris Baskind

Chris, true, although I never say no to the occasional Digg headline either :-) - Duncan Riley

I have to say, Duncan. I've greatly enjoyed your content much more post-TechCrunch. And I believe this is part of the reason why. You do indeed write to the audience, and not to the TechMeme potential. Good stuff. - Nathaniel Payne

Never say never. ;-) - Chris Baskind

Thx Nathaniel - Duncan Riley

What Nathaniel said. And that's kind of what I was digging at, pardon the pun. I'm thinking if we write for readers, the traffic will follow. - Chris Baskind

I noticed the same for Polymeme...it's a strange thing but I'm learning to use it in ways I do find useful. - Hrag

For what it's worth, The Inquisitr is becoming a must read for me. Enjoyed this piece, pretty illuminating stuff on a few different levels - Eric Berlin

Duncan, The Inquisitr is #3 on my Leaderboard. http://www.louisgray.com/live/... (does that help?) - Louis Gray

Thx Eric. Louis, yes + thx - Duncan Riley

Went cold turkey about 4 months ago. Still visit once a week or to see a story thread I need to see easily. - Jim Kukral via twhirl

I definitely agree with Eric - Steven Hodson

-high five!- ....let's go have some pork chops, of course! - Mona N.

Duncan, nice, that post came out even better than we planned. Now how about starting a whole blog dedicated to how much Techmeme doesn't matter? - Gabe Rivera

wrapped in bacon. - Bren

Maybe for the 3 month anniversary Gabe ;-) - Duncan Riley

I agree with the other Eric, The Inquisitr is becoming a great site. However, I think you should buy up all of the similar domain names because every time I tell someone about it, they mistype the URL and get to some dumb site :) - Eric Florenzano

Eric, true, my wife found one last night based on a real basic typo - Duncan Riley

gaberivera has a thin skin i think - Gregory Lent

techmeme is the bulletin board at your local safeway, little 3 x 5 cards, ballpoint pen letters, lawns mowed, babysitter needed, daycare offered, lost kitten answers to max, for sale, 1983 mustang, 63,000 miles, regular oil changes... just for tech-lust folks - Gregory Lent

http://jeneane.net/?p=83 my two cents - jeneane "the plumber"

Gregory, I forgot to mention in the post that my last headline on Techmeme was a post discussing the problems with Techmeme.....total coincidence :-) - Duncan Riley

all the stuff we have to go through in order to grow up .. sigh - Gregory Lent

Duncan is a talented, sometimes provacative, always intriguiging (thought-provoking) writer. And great headline writer and promoter as well. - Alex Hammer

Duncan I think if people send email to questionsorcomments@techmeme.com with subject line $$$ you will get respond back otherwise your email goes to deleted folder :) I build techmeme for my self I would be glad to add every f*** tech blogger ... Anyways as I commented on your blog, awesome post I love it! - Live Crunch

I think there's far too much emphasis on whether or not one "makes it" on TechMeme. And zealots who follow TM with every breath and then show up in the comments area to say stupid crap like "why did this make it to TechMeme" need to get a life. Read and subscribe to what's interesting, don't be so focused on "where" it comes from. There is no single golden source on the web. - TDavid