totally got a cool idea for new schwag... two items: for new Moms, a friend feed shirt with slots for easy feeding of infants... and for new Pops like Louis, nipple with bottle attachment inserts with one nipple coming out of the first f and the second nipple coming out of the second d... saweet!
- Rob Reed
FF schwag and twins! best picture of the day!
- Sarah Perez
Mega awesome ;) Congratulations to you and your family, like the Friendfeed t-shirt ;)
- Mario Olckers
Tiny... little... eentsy... lumps of yum. There, my estrogen has officially shown itself.
- Carla Thompson
No way - they have FF onesies??? How do I get my hands on one of those?
- Jesse Stay
The Gray family Babies!!!! Sarah and Mathew look sooo cute in your arms! and sooo tiny my goodness!!... still LOL @ Rob's wacky comment..whoa!
- Susan Beebe
I'm in denial and these posts don't help me any so STOP IT! :D
- ♥patricia♥
Welcome to NCAA Basketball and March Madness. It consumes me.
- Mike Nayyar
I don't know what you're talking about. Combines are this week, the draft is in April, and there's plenty to keep your cheesehead high about.
- Pete Delucchi
If you get NFL Network on cable, they do replay games from the season every night
- .LAG liked that
I know, but it's better than nothing...especially in HD!
- .LAG liked that
We had arena league season ticks but that folded. So nothing.
- Todd Hoff
@Todd...oh, yeah, that's right, I forgot about arena football going on hiatus for at least one season. is nothing sacred in this economy?
- .LAG liked that
Northing. We are on the border of the profane.
- Todd Hoff
I agree with Steven, not the same. Sorry tho Mr Perez, GO PACKERS!!
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
This has to be the best friendfeed face ever. I feel sorry for you, Shey, but hey on the bright side, Formula One is about to kick off again soon.
- Alex Scoble
My husband sports that same face every year too. Epic photo Shey! :D
- Carmen - Happy 2010!
I'm with Sean, it's a biochemical thing, not an ideology. I wouldn't call you anti-mango if the smell of frying bacon makes you hungry.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
But how far does it go, MiniMage? What if I only like blondes? Am I hairist? What if I only like Asian women with green eyes? etc. etc. I think sometimes our language about ‘discrimination’ gets into some troubling areas. That was the point I was trying to make with the original post.
- Anthony Citrano
The term "sexist" does not connote attraction as a matter of definition. Sexual preferences and negative generalizations based on the immutable characteristic of gender are not even in the same volume of the dictionary, let alone the same definitional entry.
- Martha
If you only like Asian women with green eyes, then apparently you're an undead Chinese sorcerer that shoots beams of light out of your eyes.
- Victor Ganata
*-ism is not really about preference, but about power.
- Victor Ganata
+Victor on Big Trouble in Little China reference
- Rodfather
There's preference based on the superficial, and then there's biology. The two do not compare; they contrast. Now, if you owned a company and only hired women (I'm trying to imagine a business that a man could run that could only use female employees, and I'm coming up empty), THAT would prove you sexist. If you constantly sent anti-men propaganda out and constantly extolled the virtues of women, THAT would be sexist. When you start talking about eye, hair, etc, color, THAT'S exclusionary.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
*considers purchasing a Victoria's Secrect franchise to prove MiniMage's point*
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Stockers, accountants, cash register/lights/rack maintenance. Anything behind the scenes could be done by a male at VS. I already thought of lingerie :).
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Based on yesterday's discussion, if you promote stereotypes of one sex or the other, you are a de facto sexist.
- Dave Roth
@Dave: I'm stuck with this damn sexist brain, I guess.
- Anthony Citrano
Ah, @Mark, what kind of evil genius franchise CANT actually use males? Ah, @Dave, when one is a leader in society and promotes stereotypes against another group, how is that NOT at least making the attempt to undermine, hamper them or otherwise be oppressive?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
If I was an EVIL genius I would only employ females. But I'm not evil...
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
You know, I'm with you on that. If I were an evil genius who'd seen your M.O., I'd evilly copy you and hire only handsome men. I would be completely sexist. Of course, if I were a good genius, I wouldn't do that.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Naw, it makes you a dork for posting this.
- Alex Scoble
What if one doesn't find trans women sexually attractive? Seems like the same rules ought to apply, but trans activists don't seem very happy about that idea...
- Karl Knechtel
I just love this question! Seriously! ++++++++
- Carlton Hackett
Mine is cream of mushroom soup. The smell of it makes me want to retch. At the holidays, it's all I can do to politely choke down a bite of anything made with it.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
from email
A rich dead guy on a beach... You have to hold them up so no one knows they are dead...
- Johnny Worthington
Hair stuck on the bar of soap in the shower
- Sally: ice cube
Country songs that lament how things have changed...as if things were so much better for the common man in the 80s or the 50s.
- Alex Scoble
Cucumbers. I hate the smell, the texture and the taste. But I love pickles. I'm the same way about raw tomatoes but I love them in everything cooked.
- Trish R
"kudos" and "props", oh, and those tall boots every other woman on the street seems to be wearing.
- coldbrew
@Michael, yep, you don't know which part of who's body the errant hair came from. Seriously, it's such a turnoff that hubby and I have our own soaps. We don't share.
- Sally: ice cube
I wanna change mine. I really can't stand that one single little curly hair that is always in every hot tub you get into. You know the one, it has like gps and hones in on you as soon as you get int....
- Joe Pierce
The people who wear those "lead, follow or get out of the way" shirts. Pisses me off.
- Michael Forian
One other thing: revisionist history, or things that tout revisionist history, such as 80's hits radio stations that will play Echo and the Bunnymen, but not Christopher Cross (you may laugh, but...) or the lyrics to that song 'I Wish I Was A Punk Rocker With Flowers In My Hair".
- Helen Sventitsky
@Forian (since I'm already a michael...) "NO FEAR". :D
- mjc
Ring tones... Hearing the theme to Hawaii Five-O as a prelude to one side of a conversation I care nothing about ruins "the novelty"
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
@Joe: 99% of the time they can't and just want to look badass.
- Rodfather
grabbing food off my plate without permission. really sets me off for some reason.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
That's ok, Chris: I have it on good authority that southern girls who can punch can take your hate and turn it into fluffy zombie cats of doom.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
from fftogo
People that leave the standard 4:3 TV shows stretched on their widescreen 16:9 TV's and gloat about how great it looks
- Nathan Chase
People eating food while standing over my shoulder as I try to concentrate. MAJOR pet peeve of mine.
- Phil G
People who don't join Twitter because "they don't want to know what everyone had for breakfast"
- Nathan Chase
Two-faced fakers and haters. if you don't like me, at least let me know about it, and stay the hell away from me.
- Helen Sventitsky
My fiancee not putting the toilet seat up. :)
- jcunwired
What, this thread MVB? No, I read a comment about green bean casserole which made me think about how much I hate it, and this was a more fun way to post it.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
from fftogo
Like George Carlin (RIP), those little yellow signs in car windows that say things like, "Baby On Board"
- coldbrew
When the pie pieces would get stuck (if inserted upside down) in the Trivial Pursuit pie piece! Apparently, I'm not the only one http://www.amazon.com/review... . Taking FF literally is the only safe bet these days.
- Micah Wittman
When someone uses a fork and leaves those fork grooves in the butter spread. Use a knife, and keep it smooth!
- Louis P.
from twhirl
Trivial humor on trivial comments on trivial threads.
- Rick Kaiser
People that think the word trivial has only one meaning.
- coldbrew
The word trivial. Ahhh...sorry...I actually like that!
- Rick Kaiser
People that refer to others by their first name despite the fact that there are typically lots of people with the same first name, and they have never shaken hands with that person.
- coldbrew
people who don't tell me they're leaving an IM conversation! say goodbye dammit (and people wo say "brb" when they're not gonna be Right back ;)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
yeah...sorry Shey....had a BAD experience one time and ever sense then....eeesh...even the smell makes me retch... >.<
- Live4Emma (L4S)
Double parkers in front of a parking space. *Hate it*
- Sarah Peterman
Sharing a 5PM commute with no driving aholes!
- Mike Lewis
When other people are navigating the web with me watching and they don't see the proper links as quickly as me. Drives me insane - "Just CLICK RIGHT THERE!!!"
- Zach Landes
People who really are alcoholics (or are definitely heading that way) who claim that they are just "social drinkers." That, and the people who enable them.
- Katy S
Garden State Parkway and NY Thruway tolls, which keep going up.
- Morton Fox
Any, I mean ANY of those idiot FB apps, and that "25 things" thing
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
+100 on the Facebook apps. I've already killed a bunch, and I keep blocking more and more and more of them.
- Amy H.
Being illogical or someone who doesn't accept (or is unable in) thinking differently about something without that person considering him/herself in the calculation.
- ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,
omg..and ESPECIALLY the stupid picture "gift" apps. I love to get the requests just so I can block the app ;)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
People who claim welfare when they can work and are not sick ie. malingering spongers.
- Angus Neil
Egg Art Master Franc Grom sells egg artwork by creating approximately 2,500 to 3,500 holes in each egg shell. His intricate art is inspired by traditional Slovenian designs. Drilling holes in egg shells would require an incredible amount of steady hand and patience and the effort has paid off with these beautiful creations.
- Cee Bee
randomonium:
I never had an imaginary friend when I was a child, but blogging has filled that role quite nicely in adulthood.
Thank you, Internet. - http://browneyes.tumblr.com/post...
People, I am so excited about this recipe, it’s pretty much all I can talk about this week. I mentioned it to a broker who showed us another dud of an apartment (more about that if/when we make it out alive). I mentioned it to a friend who doesn’t eat sweets (and we’re still friends! Really, it’s more for everyone else.). And I tried to explain it to another friend who has probably never baked in her life, who politely nodded, smiled and scooted out of the room.
- Emma
from Bookmarklet
LOL and sorry to torture everyone.... :)) L4S: mmmhmmm Having a moment AGAIN? Let me know when you're finally able to blink!! ;p <33 Nia: Of course, *hands one to Nia* :) Brandon: Enjoy!!! ;)
- Emma
We used to make these for slumber parties as a teen - but as a whole cake - in fact Barbara Walters mentioned Refrigerator Cake on the View the other day!
- Robyn Hawk
That site sometimes has incredibly tasty stuff - although sometimes the tone is odd, as if assuming any readers are clueless about cooking...
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
I thought maybe it was a figment of my imagination. But no, I found it on YouTube. What are these people doing to our 80's?!
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
Haven't heard this before. I like this version better, but I'm a rock fan and definitely not a George Michael fan.
- Brandon Titus
I like the music, but not the vocal. I never even knew this was a George Michael song. I actually like the original.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Reminded of the great lyrics...rock ballads all kinda sound the same to me so not loving this version.
- Jenny Morman
This is so weird. I feel like I've heard that riff a hundred times (the beginning Saxaphone/guitar part). Sounds a lot like some riffs from Dream Theater's newer album but not exactly.
- Brandon Titus
:::::hides behind hands::::: I like it....
- Nurse Katie
oh hahahahahahhahah ha ha. ha. yeah, sounds a bit like creed meets wham in the mens room!
- Nathan Eckenrode
***hides behind Katie's hands*** I like it too.
- Joseph(PhotoJoe)
This version embarrasses me far more than the original ever did (I wasn't crazy about the original either; though I admit I loved Wham! for a brief time).
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
No, I go ape when I see it. I've gotten into some ugly verbal fights with people. :|
- Anna Haro
Thank you!! I get treated like some kind of over-sensitive "Stuff White People Like" (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/) tree hugger. I totally bitched-out one my daughter's teachers for throwing garbage in a yard next to the school.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
I've stopped on several occasions and picked up big stuff, followed the litterer until they stopped, handed it over and told them they dropped something. Shocks the hell out of them.
- jcunwired
I hate it so much. Makes my argument for 'car mounted rocket launchers' a strong one (but only in my fantasy world for now). I had an asswipe throw a lit ciggie butt out the window and straight into my lap. I was on my motorcycle. after removing the threat to my nards, i pulled up next to their SUV and knocked on the driver's window. We were driving at about 40 mph on the 110 freeway...
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- Morgan Haley
Yeah people that throw trash out of the car make me angry... But people that make me blind with fury are the ones that toss lit cigarettes out the window.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Especially when there's a bin a few metres away
- Bryce Roney
I hate littering. How easy is it to put your rubbish in a bin?
- Kol Tregaskes
No littering is very offensive. You can say many explicatives that won't offend me, but please throw your trash away--thanks.
- Kelly W.
The thing that pisses me off the most is to see some yahoo throw a lit cigarette out of the window of a moving car. I the summer, we have a very high fire danger here in northern CA. These idiots are responsible for countless grass fires along our highways and occasionally a large fire that ends up burning homes and businesses.
- Jeff P. Henderson
I hate it when white people litter....wait, what?
- Trevor Carpenter
I had a friend who would pick up trash thrown out the window by someone stopped at the light in front of him. He would turn off his car, get out, pick up the trash, hand it back to them if they still had their window down or just make a big show of holding up traffic while he threw their trash away for them before getting back to his car. I often wish I had the balls to do this.
- Lisa L. Seifert
It is just completely irresponsible and immature to litter and there doesn't seem to be any logical reason for doing so aside from laziness.
- Kenley Neufeld
Nope! aAARRGhHHH!!!1!!! Drives me nuts, too.
- Kamilah Gill
Yeah I HATE that. I usually tell them that they dropped something.
- Jeremy Brooks
Are we talking about creating a police state here? The U.S. Army alone has nearly 500,000 troops. That doesn't count reserves or National Guard. In 2007, the U.S. Defense budget was $439 billion. Is Obama serious about creating some kind of domestic security force bigger and more expensive than that? If not, why did he say it? What did he mean?
- bcultral
from Bookmarklet
Nary a peep from any one... Not even Hannity/Ingrahm/O'Riley/Limbaugh talk about this. Why? Fear of reprisal?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
After years of marriage, a couple was lying in bed one evening when the wife felt her husband fondling her in ways he hadn't in some time. It almost tickled as his fingers started on her neck, then caressed her shoulders and began moving down past the small of her back.
Slowly, he moved his hand over her breasts stopping just over her lower stomach. He proceeded to place his hand on her left inner arm, caressing past the side of her breast again working down her side, passing gently over her buttocks and down her leg to her calf. Then he stopped, rolled over, and was silent.
- Ladybug Heather
Aroused by this caressing, she asked in a lovely voice, "Honey, that was wonderful. Why did you stop?" He replied, "I found the remote."
- Ladybug Heather
That was so beautiful. *wipes tears away*. Did they live happily ever after?
- vijay
Yeah, I try hiding Scott's Blackberry sometimes, but that usually ends up with him stroking the 'berry and saying, "Are you okay, baby? I thought I'd lost you forever!" :-)
- Ladybug Heather
I'm the oldest of five. The oldest two (me and my brother Phil) are left-handed, the other three kids are right-handed. Our parents are right-handed too. It's too early to tell for my two kids (1 1/2 and 3 1/2), but I think they're going to turn out right-handed. There you go, nine data points for your son's survey!
- Stephen Mack
My dad broke is right hand two times in a row when he was six. So things he learned then, like writing, he does with his left hand. He also still eats his soup using his left hand. For the rest he does everthing with his right hand. One cool trick he has up his sleeve is that he can start writing a sentence with his left hand, switch the pen mid-sentence, and complete the sentence with his right hand. As for me, I'm a plain boring righty.
- Jeroen Van Goey
Residual effects of childhood polio have forced me to be right handed but according to medical professionals, I ought to have been left-handed. (That may skew your results a bit!)
- Jill O'Neill
I am left handed, however I use my right hand to scroll up and down and to search the web with the mouse. Using the left hand is just weird for me.
- Patrick
from twhirl
"Many of us use online stock photography when we’re looking for images to spice up a presentation or blog post. A lot of us also love to scour Flickr for the same purpose, since with a little digging we can typically find truly beautiful and captivating photos to express what our words can’t."
- Kol Tregaskes
"The politically correct rules also mean a ban on Continental titles, such as Madame and Mademoiselle, Frau and Fraulein and Senora and Senorita. Guidance issued in a new 'Gender-Neutral Language' pamphlet instead orders politicians to address female members by their full name only. Officials have also ordered that 'sportsmen' be called 'athletes', 'statesmen' be referred to as 'political leaders' and even that 'synthetic' or 'artificial' be used instead of 'man-made'."
- RAPatton
"The booklet also admits that "no gender-neutral term has been successfully proposed" to replace 'waiter' and 'waitress', allowing parliamentarians to use these words in a restaurant or café." Umm... Waitperson???
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Gender neutral confuses me a little... The terms and titles help clarify and specify in fewer words. Precise language used to be held in high regard. Whether someone is male or female doesn't matter in performing a job (with exception) but picturing a sexless form in my mind is not what I want when hearing or reading about someone.
- Michael W. May
ScienceDaily (Mar. 10, 2009) — "Most of us save things – memorabilia, collectibles, items from our childhood or from our children. But for more than an estimated million Americans, the saving may get out of hand and cross over to a psychiatric condition known as compulsive hoarding. People who engage in hoarding put themselves and neighbors in danger, say experts at the University of Michigan Health System. Their living conditions can present a fire hazard and are often unsanitary and unsafe. Hoarders face the real prospect of becoming buried under an avalanche of trash. Treating hoarding is difficult because people who suffer from it often don't see the squalor they live in as a problem."
- Anna Haro
from Bookmarklet
My Dad's uncle's wife has that. When he passed away and the family had to move her out and help her because she couldn't live alone we all found out how bad she had it. Its still tough with her.
- Joe Pierce
Oh my goodness, Joe. :( Yeah, this condition is really quite sad.
- Anna Haro
Yeah, he told us that she had a lot of stuff that she wouldn't get rid of but since they lived way out and always came to us we just had no no idea at all.
- Joe Pierce
I think an ex of mine has it. She isn't to the point of it being unsanitary but she needs to surround her living area with tons of clothes, boxes, trinkets and such.
- ·[▪_▪]·
My mother has it. Her excuse has always been "I might throw out something I need."- to which my reply one day was "Well, mom, most likely you have 7 or eight of every thing you could possibly NEED. You have so much stuff you can't find anything when you are looking for it and then need to go buy another. Wouldn't it just be better to go through what you have and reduce?" -Because I've lived in her house, i make it a point to go through spring cleaning every 3-4 months, rotating rooms i hit.
- InPerpetualMotion(Gina k)
My uncle definitely had this problem. None of us realized how bad it was until he died and they had to clean out his house. It was unbelievable. The piles of boxes, the trash, newspapers... he literally had a path through his house from room to room that was surrounded by 4 ft high piles of stuff. It was really, really sad.
- Jen (SquirrelGirl)
I used to be in the early stages of this condition. I was a minimalist my whole life, and then 5 years ago i became a packrat for some reason. then about a year ago, i just woke up one day and decided that it was time to let go. now i'm somewhere in between the minimalist and the packrat, which i am enjoying quite a bit.
- Morgan Haley
My dad is like this with old electronics, test equipment and models. The models are understandable, but the electronics are totally antiquated and useless. He just won't get rid of it. I'm talking about a lot here. Rooms full of stuff.
- Jared B. Luther
This condition hurts everyone around the person who has it & it's a very sad reality w/most of my family. Why does it hurt people around them? B/c we're the ones who have 2 clean up after these people when they pass on. Trying to live with & or clean up after people who have this problem sucks the life out of people b/c of the amount of time and money it takes to purge. I abhor clutter and try to live as simply as possible b/c of the family around me who insist on living this way. It makes me ill.
- TheMacMommy
My Mom is doing this and it pains me greatly to see her live this way. I had to *untrain* my own brain to not think objects /materialism is good. Ugh! I have an very simple house now and enjoy the lack of crap! I am dreading the day we have to clean out her 3,000 sqft, 5 bedroom / 3 bath home...
- Susan Beebe
A few weeks ago, we had a fatality not far from here when firemen couldn't access a burning home. Hoarding on this scale is a serious disorder, and it costs lives.
- Chris Baskind
how did you sneak into my APT and snap a pic ....
- johnpiercy
My dad has this. We're cleaning out the house that I grew up in and it's miserable. When he dies we'll have to handle the home he lives in now and four storage units. I'm a minimalist for the most part and I think it's due to his habits.
- Heather Solos
And this was the first comment: "As I walk over three feet of ice in our barnyard it is hard for me not to feel that a bit more debate might be a good thing." Mixing up climate and weather is not a good start.
- Todd Hoff
The more scientific debate, the better. Always, on every scientific issue.
- Sean McBride
let's see if i can believe the science w/o believing in the religion: show me examples of each.
- MikeAmundsen
I'm not fully persuaded by either side of the debate, but based on the experience and backgrounds of those I've heard (mostly on NPR) discussing this topic at the moment I'm leaning toward thinking there's something to it. I'm hearing more practical conclusions with substantiation from the GW side than from the anti-GWs. I do hear the anti-GWs wasting their time attempting to impeach the character of the messenger rather than attempting to present the science behind their opinion.
- Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)
climate change is real and has been happening ever since the Earth gained an atmosphere and will continue to do so. The more we understand how it works the better. My own personal belief is that the focus on CO2 emissions are misguided at best, the real issue is with our numbers and how our growth is outstripping the Earths capacity to replenish. At some point there will either be a mass migration of humans from the planet or there'll be a crunch time.
- alphaxion
Also, if you are a GW denier, try to make an argument against real published papers by actual climatologists, not Al Gore and his movie. And stop using economists or the one retired meteorologist from the Weather Channel to support your argument.
- Rob Haas
@Robert Haas look up the teachings of Robert Giegengack... Very interesting take on climate from a geologists point of view.
- alphaxion
The fact of climate change is not in dispute. The earth exited an ice age very recently. The effect of humans on climate change is the debate.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Mark -- how many ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere are you comfortable with, and why?
- Sean McBride
@Robert, refering to those of us who don't buy GW or "climate change" hook, line and sinker as "deniers" is not productive. Clearly the climate is changing, but who is to say that the current climate is the Earth's ideal climate? It may be ideal for humans, but not for the Earth itself.
- Joey Gibson
Sean I'm mobile and drinking. I have a website that points out 32 problems with the algore's fictional movie. I'll post when able.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
OK, two things: 1. GET OFF OF AL GORE. The man is only an advocate, not the freaking god of some pagan religion. 2. Yes, I can believe in the science of climate change, for much the same reason I can believe in gravity when I jump up and down - because I can test it.
- Steven Perez
MVB, I think you genuinely don't understand global warming arguments if you think of AGW proponents as thralls in some crazy religion to Gore. Your comments about 'the algore' make you seem as ridiculously unserious as people who refer to Microsoft as "M$", "Microshaft", etc, and for pretty much exactly the same reason: making a reasonable argument into a petty, personal one.
- Andrew C
Andrew & Steven As this planet we call earth exited the last ice age, which science tells us it did, what was the human impact that caused the earth to warm?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
The argument isn't that humans are causing the Earth to warm, it is that humans are causing it to warm at an extremely accelerated rate that coincides with the modern increase in CO2 output. Yes, it is warming naturally, but it is also warming unnaturally.
- Rob Haas
Sorry, but what's the point of being right about the lack of human effect on global warming? So we can pave over more forests? Or continue to drive gas guzzling cars? That said, occam's razor really does seem to point to a human effect on GW, doesn't it? In the same geo-location - is it hotter with skyscrapers and pavement or log cabins and dirt roads?
- AJ Kohn
Put another way. You're on a plane and someone hands you a parachute and tells you to jump and asks if you want to a) check the pack and make sure everything is set properly or b) figure it was packed right and jump. Which would you choose to do?
- AJ Kohn
I don't think anyone is arguing that the reduction of rain forests is good, that dumping mercury in our water supply is good... No one is arguing that dependance on oil and coal is good I argue that the idea that 'carbon credits' is the savior of humanity is untrue, That's all. The science of believing that unfetterrd waste is hamful is a good thing. The biased belief that humans are the only cause of climate change is a bad thing,
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
MVB: no AGW proponent claims humans are the only cause. Where are you getting these strawmen arguments?
- Andrew C
Andrew: All I'm saying is is let's have a debate of experts, not politicians.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
You're also implying AGW proponents say things that no actual AGW proponent is saying or really, has ever said.
- Andrew C
Ugh. I have a degree in this stuff and even I don't have the patience to deal with this discussion. So many sweeping generalizations, I don't even know where to begin...
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
"The Science and Public Policy Institute (SPPI) is a global warming skeptics group which appears to primarily be the work of Robert Ferguson, its President. The website ... draws heavily on papers written by Christopher Monckton. Prior to founding SPPI in approximately mid-2007, Ferguson was the Executive Director of the Center for Science and Public Policy (CSPP), a project of the...
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- MikeAmundsen
MVB: I meant "the biased belief that humans are the only cause of climate change" is a strawman argument.
- Andrew C
Al Gore isn't running a climate change religion. Like Pres. Obama, he's an expert in the field of salesmanship and marketing. He is selling a concept and making a profit doing so. The questions are: 1) does the Earth's climate change over time? (it does), 2) do we know what effect mankind has on the Earth's climate, separate from any other species or event? (we do not), and 3) can mankind actively and purposely change climate change? (we do not know).
- ComicList
Actually, we *can* tell what effect is due to fossil fuels in that fossil fuel CO2 has radioactively different carbon from carbon in the usual CO2 cycle...
- Andrew C
It used to be the case that people who thought they had, or could gain, influence over the weather and climate had secret lairs and henchmen, and we would call them super-villains.
- Andy Bakun
there is no such thing as "Earths ideal temp". It has forever shifted and will always do so - it is only because things on Earth have been strangely calm for a few hundred years that we seem to think it should be this temp. And as I've said before, we can cut the amount of CO2 we are outputting to zero and the real problem will still exist - too many humans living unsustainably. CO2 reduction should be a by product of addressing the real problem instead of the focus.
- alphaxion
The people who dismiss global warming concerns as a joke scare me almost as much as religious fundamentalists. Just my opinion.
- Sean McBride
Most of the recommendations that are made to address global warming are implicitly worthwhile even if you don't believe that global warming is real. We have limited and rapidly diminishing natural (carbon) resources, pollution IS a real problem (from a health perspective) regardless of its effect on global temperature changes, reliance on oil puts us at risk from a national security perspective. So I just don't understand people who oppose aggressive efforts to curb carbon consumption.
- Kevin Pedraja
Bring on all the debate you want. The science will stand or fall on its own merits. In the meantime, though, let's be doing something. Particularly stuff which moves us down the line toward the post-fossil fuels age.
- Chris Baskind
I have a genuine question: Under normal circumstances, when ice melts, it actually takes up less volume. How is it that melting ice caps cause rising sea levels? According to the Archimedes experiments I did in HS and university, shouldn't the absence of the pressure exerted on the oceans by the frozen ice be greater than the pressure exerted on the oceans by the melted ice?
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
"But there might be a less dramatic reason than polar ice melting for the higher ocean level -- the higher temperature of the water. Water is most dense at 4 degrees Celsius. Above and below this temperature, the density of water decreases (the same weight of water occupies a bigger space). So as the overall temperature of the water increases it naturally expands a little bit making the oceans rise."
- Todd Hoff
@Todd and Chris: Those absolutely make sense. I just can't make sense of the attribution of melting ice caps to rising sea levels.
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Also, I think the ice in Greenland and Antarctic is on land, so when it melts the water will flow into the ocean.
- Todd Hoff
@Todd True, but considering my original point, how much of an effect does ice on land have on oceans that cover 3/4 of the earth? I think the water temp is a much more viable explanation
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
I remembered something in newscientist. http://www.newscientist.com/article...: Johnson estimates that the warming and consequent expansion of the deep water flows may be responsible for between 10% and 20% of the global sea-level rise seen during that time.
- Todd Hoff
Also this http://www.newscientist.com/article...: Sea level rises could bust official estimates – that's the first big message to come from the climate change congress that kicked off in Copenhagen, Denmark, today. By 2100, sea levels could be 1 metre or more above current levels, he says. And it looks increasingly unlikely that the rise will be much less than 50 centimetres.
- Todd Hoff
And when I read this I got really scared: How to survive the coming century (http://www.newscientist.com/article...). "The good news is that the survival of humankind itself is not at stake: the species could continue if only a couple of hundred individuals remained. But maintaining the current global population of nearly 7 billion, or...
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- Todd Hoff
I don't know Shey. This stuff makes my head hurt.
- Todd Hoff
The problem with scientific "debate" is that too many people who participate either a) aren't scientists or b) don't understand science or the scientific method. I'm not referring to present company, but the general sense in the political universe that "debate" doesn't mean the same thing as "search for truth."
- Steve Lowe
Just look at this thread. It isn't a discussion of the facts. One group believes in man made climate change another does not, and no amount of fact presented by either side changes anything. Why is this? Climate change can be proven, that man is causing it cannot. Either you believe man is causing it or you don't.
- Steve Olson
I don't worry about Al Gore being a zealot for Climate change...But I also don't worry about people who can't get insured to rebuild on coastal danger zones after being wiped out.
- Larry Lewis
"Either you believe man is causing it or you don't." - When you get cancer did you cause it or didn't you? And does it matter if you can take steps to cure your fatal disease? There's a meme going around that says we can't do anything about Global Climate Change. It's too big. It's too daunting. To me that's like surrendering to the Axis powers because you don't think you can win. It's cowardly and it's not how we do things. We meet challenges and overcome. We don't run away.
- Todd Hoff
The best minds with the best models can't predict local weather beyond three days. Predicting Global Climate beyond three days and thirty miles would seem to be a bit more complex. If betting on the weather ( or climate ) could be fixed ( as in 'fixing a prize fight" ), then Vegas would be giving odds on that action. Show me the betting parlor that offers odds on Global Warming, and I'll make a bet...
- Wallace
What Todd says is true. Whether climate change is affected significantly by man or not does not change the fact that the earths climate is changing; except for one part: the impending forced taxation through carbon credits. If humans do not significantly affect the climate, this tax is a scam. That's why it is important to know. That's what I believe to be the religion of climate change. Carbon credits are the indulgences.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Carbon credits are a kludge to work around the requirement to have a free market solution. Ironic, isn't it? It's a poor strategy but more effective strategies are politically more problematic.
- Todd Hoff
@MVB: then this is not about CW at all, is it? it's about gov't tax policies.
- MikeAmundsen
To a point, Mike. There are people currently using climate change as a scare tactic for the purpose of profit and for the purpose of imposing a tax. They are looked on as experts even though they are politicians, not men of science. That sounds like a religion to me.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Predicting weather Wallace is not the same as predicting climate. I know there will be 4 general seasons in my area, climate, but the weather at any particular second is unknowable. So I'll put up a $1000 bet on global climate change being real. You need to put up $100,000. How certain are you?
- Todd Hoff
MVB, are the people that advocate lower rates for long term capital gains or piling up debt for war part of a religion? It just seems a very odd conceptualization.
- Todd Hoff
@Todd, would you say that there will be more, or less seasons in the change you are predicting? The devil is in the details. Speaking of religion/climate change, American Thinker posted something that distills what some have commented on here; http://www.americanthinker.com/2008... Carbon credits are much like indulgences, and somebodies gambling with our chips...( I'd go for the 'under'...)
- Wallace
Neither Wallace, I'm just using that as illustration that because weather is hard that the gross evolution of climate can't be predicted. Agreed on carbon credits. They are dumb. But they are necessary because people don't really have the will to solve this problem. So they just throw in another level of indirection that allows people to feel good & accomplish nothing. If we approached this like mature adults we wouldn't need the balm of CCs.
- Todd Hoff
@MVB: based on your response to my Q, sounds to me like you don't debate the science, but you do debate at least one of the proposed mitigations. and, your creative use of the term 'religion' aside, if you want to talk taxing/gov't policy do so. IMO, bringing CW to that debate would be a strawman. as for scare tactics to get laws passed, that's hardly new.
- MikeAmundsen
Maybe we can change the axis of the earth. Maybe we can change the direction of the ocean currents. Maybe we can change the climate. Maybe if an ice age is coming we should try to warm the earth. Do we need a central climate control center where we adjust the climate with government policies as the climate changes. Oops its cooling-burn fossil fuels, its warming stop burning fossil fuels.
- Steve Olson
Todd, if those doing the scaring are doing so with incorrect information it's a bad thing. If they know it's bad information, it's criminal. The one shouting that the debate is over is the one with the most to lose if the information is wrong. Why would he want the debate to continue? We started a couple wars based on bad information. I want us to not make that type of mistake again.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
It's interesting Steve to see people would normally be on the side of hard work and innovation suddenly lose their gumption when the problems become a little too large and complex.
- Todd Hoff
"The one shouting that the debate is over is the one with the most to lose if the information is wrong." By the same token, it's clearly vested interests who deny AGW. Where's your skepticism there?
- Andrew C
To my knowledge nobody said CCs are the best way to the solve the problem. They are a compromise position. So I'm not sure where the bad information is.
- Todd Hoff
Todd 'When you get cancer did you cause it or didn't you? And does it matter if you can take steps to cure your fatal disease?' 1. You don't know climate change is fatal. 2. You don't know if anything you do will change the climate. 3. You don't know what the unintended consequences of a misdiagnosis are 4. Cutting one's head off because you have tongue cancer is doing something, but that doesn't make it cure for something you don't know how to prevent
- Steve Olson
1) You don't know that cancer is fatal but in most all cases you'll treat it. 2) I'm sure you tell this to your kids when they try something difficult. 3) See 2. 4) Can I suggest finding a more competent doctor?
- Todd Hoff
Andrew, i have skepticism there as well. Those who deny that pollution is bad are idiots. My cat doesn't crap in his food dish. But the debate is not over. The question hasn't been answered. Yet legislation moves forward. Does no one else see the problem with that? Or do you truly believe that humans can stop climate change? Because I don't. We may be able to reverse our own impact but climate change is going to occur whether we like it or not. Taxing me and you falsely is a bad idea.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
I'll try this again. Would the middle of Manhattan be hotter with pavement, concrete and skyscrapers or with log cabins and dirt roads?
- AJ Kohn
If you accept that CO2 contributes to the greenhouse effect, then CO2 production is a negative externality, and carbon taxes are one way to reflect the true cost of that externality. If you have a better way to help curb CO2 production, I'd be really interested in hearing it.
- Jasmin Patry
"We may be able to reverse our own impact" - yes, and I think that would be a good thing, or at least better than the man-made global warming effect.
- Andrew C
See Todd, its a ridiculous conversation. You say its a problem like cancer, I don't think you've proven that and i am not alone. I say even if it is cancer, your solutions may do more damage than the disease. Instead of trying to change my mind you insult me. The solutions to a problem you haven't proven is a problem seem extreme to me. We've had major climate change on Earth before, how do we know what were seeing isn't natural? How do you know trying to change the climate intentionally won't do more damag
- Steve Olson
Jasmin, how, exactly, does knowing the true cost of something equate a solution? How does selling me a carbon credit do anything other than fund another book tour?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
MVB, do you know what a negative externality is?
- Andrew C
AJ, would the middle of Manhattan be warmer nearer to or farther from the equator. The earth also shifts the axis around. Am I the cause of that?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
MVB, that climate change has multiple causes, some anthropogenic, some not, does not imply that we cannot disentangle the causes nor that climate change's anthropogenic causes cannot or should not be dealt with.
- Andrew C
Steve, the tone of (4) clearly invited a non serious reply. Poisons are natural, floods are natural, cancer is natural, yet we still search for a remedy. What does natural have to do with it? Humans are the master sculptor of their environment. There's no reason we have to sit by and accept what are potentially (http://www.newscientist.com/article...) devastating changes. And I don't know if what we will do will cause more damage. Limiting CO2 will do what?
- Todd Hoff
Yes, Andrew, I know what a negative externality is. My question was about how understanding the true cost of dumping mercury into the drinking water was in itself a solution to the mercury in the drinking water. It seems to be missing a step or two.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Understanding the cost and who should be paying it leads to pricing the cost (I would say it's in the many millions for even small mercury dumps), which leads to fixing the problem. ... and therefore, carbon credits are more like both understanding the cost and imposing them on people who would otherwise skate by without paying 'em.
- Andrew C
Let's say humans do affect the speed at which the climate changes. What percent is human effect? 10? 20? What if miraculously we are able to reverse our 20%? Manhattan is still under water.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Does your answer change if the percentage of human effect is more like 90%? At what point do you think humans have to do something?
- Andrew C
Todd, do we know what causes climate change? Solar flares? Pole shifts? Changes in Earth orbit? How about the last ice age? If an ice age is coming should we prevent it by adding CO2? Isn't it interesting that the cure attacks suburban lifestyles? Consumption? Our economic foundation? Limiting CO2 may damage the economy and/or set off global cooling.
- Steve Olson
Your position then Steve is we should accept the next ice age because it's natural? And that any solution that impacts suburban lifestyles, consumption, and our economic foundation by definition can not be a real problem? Well I have a lot more faith in us Steve. We'll have a life style, we'll consume, and we'll have an economic foundation. It just may not be the one that you had as a kid. But you don't use the same phone either. The same natural evolution you accept in climate also occurs in human society.
- Todd Hoff
Of course it does, Andrew. That's the problem. Climate change has been an ongoing thing that happens on this planet. Long before humans existed. There's is no way humans are responsible for even 50% of climate change this time around. It isn't logical. Yes we affect it. But not by much. Scare tactics for profit are right up there with stealing Halloween candy from kids.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
MVB, that strikes me as a profoundly unscientific stance to take. You might as well say that five-thousandths of a microgram of botulinum toxin couldn't possibly be fatal since it's so small. You simply don't seem to have given any sign here that you've actually looked at AGW theories, not when you try to apply grossly out of context rules of thumb as if that was you being scientific.
- Andrew C
"It isn't logical. Yes we affect it. But not by much." - And the science for that would be?
- Todd Hoff
Mark, again: how many ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere are you comfortable with, and why? How much CO2 are human industrial activities pumping into the atmosphere?
- Sean McBride
"The judge found that Gore had very clearly implied that it was changes in carbon dioxide concentration that had led to changes in temperature in the palaeoclimate, when the scientific literature is unanimous (save only for a single paper by James Hansen, whom Gore trusts) to the effect that the relationship was in fact the other way about, with a carbon dioxide feedback contributing...
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- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
carbon dioxide as “global warming pollution.” It is not. It is food for plants and trees. Tests have shown that even at concentrations 30 times those of the present day even the most delicate plants flourish. Well-managed forests, such as those of the United States, are growing at record rates because the extra carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is feeding the trees. Carbon dioxide, in...
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- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Mark's last few posts have all been from his previous SPPI link, which cites fewer sources than Grist -and- makes ridiculous assertions like - in this case - saying "things were fine back in the Cambrian era, so what's the worry?"
- Andrew C
I think given the state of climate science now and the risks of not acting, it would be most prudent to act now. What's the downside if they're wrong? Not as bad as the downside of not acting if they're right.
- Andrew C
Andrew it isn't that we shouldn't be worried. Sean, it isn't that I find this or that amount of this or that gas acceptable. Pointing to a wall and saying "this is a wall" is a fact, just as climate change on earth is a fact. Pointing at me and saying I caused the whole thing is an opinion. And we have a difference of opinion as to how much impact humans have on climate change. I say next to none, Andrew says almost entirely... we can go on for days.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Especially if one of us relies on an SPPI (read: industry propaganda) paper.
- Andrew C
The APS (American Physical Society) vs. Christopher Monckton (from Wikipedia): "Some media commentators asserted that the publication of his paper was a sign that the American Physical Society had abandoned its earlier support for the scientific consensus on climate change.[18] In response, the APS reaffirmed its unchanged position on climate change and pointed out that the newsletter...
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- Sean McBride
"The APS further added a disclaimer to the top of Monckton's article stating: "...Its conclusions are in disagreement with the overwhelming opinion of the world scientific community. The Council of the American Physical Society disagrees with this article's conclusions."[20] In a response[21], Monckton called the APS "red flag" "discourteous" and claimed his paper had been...
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- Sean McBride
The APS strikes me as being a more credible scientific authority on global warming than Christopher Monckton.
- Sean McBride
Sweet merciful crap, we've spent over 100 messages in a thread where MVB advocated "science, not politicians"... and he's been citing an article by a guy who has only "degree in classics and a diploma in journalism and...no further qualifications." ( http://www.sourcewatch.org/index... ) ??????
- Andrew C
A rise in temperature or a fall in barometric pressure, which often accompanies a thunderstorm, may trigger a headache or migraine.
- M F
from Bookmarklet
I had a terrible migraine last saturday & sunday
- Manuela
this is true. the air pressure can sometimes trigger some real bad ones
- Cee Bee
I have definitely been getting a stuffy nose a lot lately now that the temperature rocketed up to 60-70F from 30s temporarily. It will swoop back down again tonight. I think by congestion bay be related. *sniff*
- Kamilah Gill
The problem with places like this twitter etc... you have to be well active... a little break and it seems you lose any interaction when you come back... the downside of it. that report on my blog I posted is the answer to making these places work right... :o)
Starting to feel like these social sites are in a way a waste of time, mainly due to the fact its constant work.... any thoughts on this?
- Rob Sellen :o)
yup. I've noticed that with my blog and Twitter/FF. But eventually, if you keep active, you'll get noticed again. :)
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
What's funny, on one of my Twitter accounts I'm barely active. I may post once every few weeks and I'm getting 10 followers every 3 days and loads of sign ups on my site associated with that account. The Twitter accounts where I'm active, I get almost no hits on my sites from Twitter.
- Admiral Anika
Keep active? thats the issue... I aint got all day to spend on here, like some (who should be working?) ... but then when I do... I get no respocse...
- Rob Sellen :o)
"The Eye-Fi app will wirelessly upload pictures from your iPhone to both your computer and favorite photo sharing site like Flickr, Picasa, Shutterfly, KodakGallery and more. ***NOTE: This application is intended to be a free complement to your Eye-Fi Card and requires you to sign in with your existing Eye-Fi account and password. To learn more about the Eye-Fi Card, please visit www.eye.fi."
- browneyes
from Mento
No: emotional baggage is life experience you have *yet* to learn from. Instead of finding something useful in your experience, you're just carrying it around with you wherever you go.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
exactly. I am glad I am not the only one who disagreed
- Shevonne
Tina, carrying the baggage around is part of the learning.
- Michael W. May
I think of it in the same vein as Tina does.
- vijay
Commercial flights now charge for any piece of emotional baggage (...alas, if only they did and passed the savings on to the rest of us ~ )
- Micah Wittman
Dr. Walker emailed me and said he would give me a job, paying $7,000 a month. All I had to do was cash the check, deduct 10% and wire him the difference. That sounds reasonable and realistic, don't you think?
Zee, he is a very busy man who is working on a deadline 24 hours a day and doesn't have time to open a bank account. He is looking for a "payment assistant" to cash his checks for him.
- Trish R
You know what? I'll probably get unsubbed by a few people for copping to this, but screw it, I LIKE the pictures of LOLcats and babies in the main feed. I love my cats, and while I don't have children of my own (and don't plan on having any) doesn't mean I can't enjoy the wonder of others' newborns
I'm there with you on the cat pics...not so much on the kid pics, most infant pics weird me out, but I have no problems hiding the ones that do.
- Alex Scoble
I like a bit of everything, news are very depressing at the moment I like something that cheers me up from time to time
- M F
Sometimes it gets a bit much -- but my thinking is that sometimes that is just what you have to endure to get to other stuff-- there is always a hide function.
- Brian Sullivan
please keep posting and share your joys with us, pleaseeee ;)
- chaz2b
I hide a lot of the LOLcats, but the kids knock me dead (and I don't have any, either). I think I have a love/grrrr relationship with the kiddies. I can check them out from the library, as long as the library wants them back :D.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Thanks all! MMABB, my sentiments exactly. Kids frankly scare me, but the pics are precious! I just find it kind of humorous occasionally reading some of these folks call the whambulance on others in the main feed because they can't be bothered to clean it up themselves. There are several private rooms, as well as a few users, that I had to take off my main feed, because, face it, I do some sneak peaks at FF at the office. The list function is a godsend, as well. :) And per Brian, there's always the
- Helen Sventitsky
I posted my favorite LOLcat to this stream and nobody liked it. It was so sad.
- Tamar Weinberg
I am a sucker for any animal pictures. I love animals, and I don't care who knows.:) I am frequently of the opinion that dogs possess superior values and personalities to most human beings -- open hearts, a direct connection to nature, and an amazing capacity for loyalty and affection.
- Sean McBride
My cats are all blocking you now, Sean, for your last comment.
- Alex Scoble
Alex -- you should see the huge and purring flame point Ragdoll curled up next to me as I type this message. :) She gets a lot of love.
- Sean McBride
Yep, and she's blocking you now too :p
- Alex Scoble
I make an exception for kids of FFers that I know well on here. Those are okay. Any random kid may not interest me as much. Excessive LOLcats and other cutesy animals get tiresome. But if one is especially clever, I might like it.
- Kamilah Gill
Here I am, a thirty-five year old African-American man in Los Angeles. Have I been wrong all these years? To think that race is the issue when it might actually be class?
I'm not willing to discount race but I've always contended that many of our social problems are due to economic status more than anything else.
- ♥patricia♥
I think it's both, too. At least from my experience.
- ha3rvey (Ho)^3
from fftogo
Money does not equal class. Perfect example: Whitney Houston and Britney Spears
- Shevonne
Shevonne, I doubt Whitney and Britney have school loans that rival mine. And both of those heifers have no class, that much is true, but I meant of the socio-economic sort.
- Derrick
Derrick - you have a job. That makes you near-broke at worst.
- Sparky
Ok, David, so say, Will Smith and Jeff Bezos of Amazon. Are they of a similar ilk because they're in the same tax bracket?
- Derrick
If you can break down the issue in just one word, then you're definitely wrong.
- Richard Lawler
I can break it down to one word.. humanity. Being shitty to each other since the first human turned to the other and said "mine! not yours"
- alphaxion
My Criminal Justice 101 prof (summer of 99! woo!) insisted that cops weren't explicitly racist, they just necessarily dealt with lower-income suspects most of the time due to the nature of our society. Thus they developed animus towards the people they policed most often, who were largely ethnic minorities. I guess that's a long way of saying "blame the system". Not sure if that holds up under intense scrutiny but it was certainly food for thought.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I'd never reduce it to just a word, Richard, but I'm thinking about life in my teens, watching friends being assaulted or worse by police, listening to Public Enemy and NWA like it was religion, and having that culminate with the Rodney King affair. But in my midthirties and in 2009, looking at economics, things just feel different. I'm not diminishing race, and certainly the two aren't mutually exclusive, it's just...wow, the world is really different.
- Derrick
Another thought - be glad its a class issue not a race issue. You can change your class after all!
- Sparky
I agree with Richard. The problems we face are too complicated and too broad to some up in just one word. They stretch across socio-economic boundaries like spilled milk on the ground.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Nice, but I don't think humans have the monopoly on being shitty to each other.
- Richard Lawler
Our country is a capitalistic society. If you have the cash flow, it really doesn't matter what you look like.
- Mona Nomura
When you are dealing with people from the same socio-economic strata, race does matter more. But when you mix race and economic status, particularly as you go up the economic ladder, it gets more fuzzy. Will Smith probably has a better chance of getting into a swanky nightclub or restaurant in L.A. than Jeff Bezos. But what about an exclusive golf club in, say, Arizona?
- Kevin Pedraja
Kevin - in this economy, no one gives a crap anymore. If you have the funds, you're in. Period.
- Mona Nomura
Henry Kissenger wasn't especially rich, and he was hitting Jill St. John.
- Matthew DeVries
@richard I never said we had the monopoly.. just that it is certainly our worst trait. Our capacity to be shitty to each other shows no boundries :(
- alphaxion
Mona, I'd disagree. How many times have I walked into a shop ready to drop serious ducats and get ignored by the sales staff, only to have them practically slobber all over my white husband. When he deferred to me *then* I existed.
- Admiral Anika
But do the shop workers know you're ready to drop the cash?
- Mona Nomura
The problem isn't a concept or categorization, it's people. Too many are uncaring, unthoughtful, intolerant, insensitive, unsympathetic, ...
- ·[▪_▪]·
Anika, from when I was in retail sales, one of the first steps for me in the sales process was to identify the decision maker. That can be done in a maximum of three questions. Shop elsewhere, as that establishment does not deserve your business.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
I'm used to being broke, and broke doesn't mean unhappy. Do I splurge on stuff I probably shouldn't? Possibly. But I'm also working my ass off so that there's something to enjoy in my future. I don't need to be wealthy, or obscenely rich. Even with what I have, I'm donating and giving to causes. I dunno. There was so much going on in that *other thread* I needed to vent.
- Derrick
As a small businessman; I can tell you the only color I care about is green. The private sector is way to competitive to exclude anyone, those that do, fail.
- Robert Hafer
Derrick, you are a good man and I can understand your need to vent. I'm keeping away while grinding my teeth and muttering foul retributions.
- WorldofHiglet
Lindsey, I hear you, and I'm a firm believer that everyone should respect one another, and listen to reason, and be understanding. That isn't always the case.
- Derrick
I think it's both class and race, and they tie into each other. Political blogger Digby's been writing about stuff like this (off and on) for years now; this one (http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2003... ) is from 2003 but still seems relevant to me.
- Andrew C
Of course they didn't, but they never bothered to ask. Instead, when my husband would in 5 min. after me, it's, "Hello, sir. Can I help you find anything?" I shouldn't have flash a gold card to get a simple greeting.
- Admiral Anika
faboo: I get the same thing in first class on some flights. (I get upgrades on two airlines.) If I'm "dressed up" it doesn't seem to happen as often. If I'm in sweats, it's like I'm invisible. Happens at some hotels, too. I'm gold on two and silver on another.
- ha3rvey (Ho)^3
Lindsey, that's just so much bullshit, but it's favorite line to trot out. It's the assumption that my husband is well-dressed, which he most likely isn't. It's the assumption that we'd deign to waste our money on designer clothes, when we don't. And it's an assumption that someone who works retail at a furniture store is going to instantly know designer clothes, when most people couldn't tell real from fake in most instances.
- Admiral Anika
I find the Lindsey <-> Anika conversation here very interesting based on my own experiences... but it's super tangential and I wanna talk about it so am gonna start another post instead of being the usual threadjacka!
- Anthony Citrano
I don't see why you can't both be right. Your husband gets preferential treatment because he's white (wrongly, lest anyone think I approve of the practice); you (and Lindsey's friends) would get better treatment if your wardrobe screamed "I'm a bajillionaire and I am about to buy out some of your priciest items".
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Lindsey - then why have I never, ever had this experience? Weird. Anyway I started a thread about it. Daniel - have you seen how real billionaires dress?
- Anthony Citrano
My point, Daniel, is that I have a lot of wealthy friends - some of them extraordinarily so. I also know a lot of highly leveraged upper-middle-class/lower-upper-class wannabees. Which segment do you think (most of the time) wears/drives the "fancier" shit?
- Anthony Citrano
LOL Anthony! The nicest part of my hometown that has old money is Camries and Accords as far as the eye can see. The nouveau riche all have leased, German cars in front of their mcmansions.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Anthony... if the latter group is the one that splurges on the more ostentatiously expensive clothing, it seems entirely logical that store salespeople flock to 'em rather than the people who -could- afford the stuff but -won't buy it-.
- Andrew C
Actually, I agree with Anika. Having dated outside my race, I have seen a total change of expression on someone's face when dealing with me individually, vs when I was with a 6'5" black guy. I also experience it with my son and can recognize the various expressions on people's faces when they're talking to me alone and then he walks up. None of that has anything to do with money or how we're dressed.
- Trish R
Trish, you reminded me of the woman who runs MotherTalkers. She's Latina, her husband is Latino; their little boy is fair-skinned & blond. A few years ago we were talking about a similar subject and she mentioned that people in Berkeley always assume she's the child's nanny. I get the same thing with my own kids.
- Admiral Anika
Lindsey, I'm not denying what you've experienced, but it isn't universally true. An example of one (which means just that): a friend of mine, a middle-aged African-American, professionally-dressed professor, is constantly followed around by security guards when she goes shopping, whether that be at Target or Macy's. It doesn't matter. That is definitely about race.
- Katy S
People do react to the way others dress, but that is just one of the things that make up our appearance. Other things include skin color, weight, height, gender, etc. One thing we learn from studying student evaluations is that these things affect the way students respond to professors. I can't tell you how much bs a friend had to deal with one semester b/c she was female, short, and very pregnant. We know that tall men gain their students' respect more easily. This happens in the rest of the world, too
- Katy S
Mark, that's like Hancock Park here. Lots of old money, lots of old cars. You can always tell the social climber homes by the (number of) ostentatious cars in front. Lindsey, what are you on about? You didn't reference your experience, so how could I call that bullshit? Besides, it was clear that I was saying that the clothing excuse is bullshit. My goodness.
- Admiral Anika
Andrew, very good point re: consumption. But that's not the proffered thought process; you give them too much credit. How many times have I heard "wow, check out that guy's car/watch/whatever - he must be rich." I generally tend to have the opposite reaction (or at least a far more neutral/tempered one.) @Lindsey - I actually do regularly patronize high-end stores that cater to females (for several reasons.)
- Anthony Citrano
Re Smith and Bezos same ilk? ... if you call being "slightly wacky genius" as a social class :). I have trouble with the whole social class concept it tends to be most important to those suffering "imposter syndrome" or those that think they will change if "move up" - not all but dome of the "noveau rich" I've met have shown no class (let alone social) after coming into money (others have been the same after as before and are the happy ones)
- David HC Soul
Lindsey - It happens to her in the supermarket, too. Employees follow her. It happens to others, too. And this has happened to her in two different Upper Midwest university cities. And everyone shops at Target here. It's where the people who don't want to be seen in Wal-Mart go (that is, your middle class folks with ideals or "standards"). Anyway, it just happens. I'm as pale as can be and I've never been followed in a store to my knowledge, no matter how I've dressed.
- Katy S
My 2 cents: I've been treated remarkably well in public when I'm with my white boyfriend. This is in Indiana. I expected possibly some off behavior, but pretty much everyone has been cool, at least to my face. They even acknowledge that we're a couple without a hitch. We could just be a really good match on some subconscious level to the people we encounter.
- Kamilah Gill
The theory of intersectionality (arising out of feminist theory) says that the social and cultural categories you belong to interact leading to the specific inequality you may experience. Being poor and black, poor and white, rich and black, and rich and white are all different. Multiply again for gender, and other categories (although these are the most important). In other words, race and class aren't only important, they are important in their interaction and not just as independent issues.
- Patrick
Kamilah - glad to hear my home state is treating you well! It still has it's problems, particularly in certain regions, but it isn't all evil. :-)
- Katy S
Class conflict is as old as money and privilege; and the idea of skin color as caste is as old as people. I think that (the result) each has become so subtle, so nuanced that depending on where you find yourself within these groups, it can be difficult to appreciate or even identify their effects.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
and patrick wins the thread. game over. goodnight. EDIT: actually patrick half wins. "intersectionality" comes specifically from *black* feminist theory, in part as a response to the dynamics of race within the feminist movement. as sojourner truth put it "ain't i a woman"? http://www.feminist.com/resourc...
- tiffany
thanks, I probably should have included that
- Patrick
Here's something to consider: If the LAPD were all black, would Rodney King still have gotten beat up? I think the answer is yes, which means class has more to do with it than you'd think.
- Gabe
Gabe, I don't think it's a good example, because the LAPD, whatever their race, still represents the group in power. The more pertinent question is if Rodney King were white, would they still have beaten him?
- Victor Ganata
OTOH, wealth does matter. If OJ weren't rich, would the murder trial have even lasted as long as it did?
- Victor Ganata
If OJ weren't rich, would I have still heard about the damn white bronco chase while I was living in Austria? And would I have had to hear so much about how psycho americans are for caring about the whole drama?
- Katy S
Oh, you better believe it! In the future all glory holes will be accompanied by USB ports.
- Christopher Harley
If this is real, the US DOJ needs to set up a division just to prosecute everything put on here.
- Info Glutton
sheesh info glutton...lighten up.... check the site, read it and you see it IS a joke site. :o) glad you thought it funny, I wet myself when I first saw it. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
The image on the left raises all sorts of questions for me. Why is the camera so big?
- Martha
AJ: the first step in making changes is identifying something you really want to change. Weight is a thorny, tricky bugger. If it is a something you want to change then how about looking at it from a different angle. You want to lose weight so you can be healthier, more active, do more things or whatever. Why not look at the other side - exercise? Take one fitness goal and work towards that. As you get towards it you will be achieving two things.
- WorldofHiglet
...You will be improving your health and you will be more motivated to look at the food you eat in a positive way. On Jan 5th Sparky and me set up this room http://friendfeed.com/rooms... so we could reach the goal of 100 push-ups. We're not there yet but I've seen a big improvement and I've started doing other exercise, too. Very best of luck!
- WorldofHiglet
145lbs, usually varying by about 5lbs either way. I should be about 155lbs though.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Weight isn't the real issue, though. The real issue is fitness, and given that muscle weighs more than fat, that makes weight a poor indicator of fitness.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
so... no one here is heavier than me. i will sit on you if you piss me off ;)
- AJ Batac
AJ, I must weigh more than you. I know I gained back the weight I lost last summer, so if I weigh 250 I wouldn't be surprised. I don't weigh myself though.
- Admiral Anika
Funny, if you asked a typical woman how much she weighs to her face, she would either lie or get offended, or both but here people seem to be pretty free with posting their weight.
- Jeff P. Henderson
133 right this moment, but it varies +/- 10 pounds every day because of the baby.
- Rochelle
@Jeff: I will readily answer if someone asked me to my face as well. :) I've gotten to a point where I feel silly lying or getting offended by the questions. I can understand why others do it, but I'm (weirdly enough) comfy with sharing the truth. My normal weight is actually 135 and I'll get back there one day. So I'm cool with dishing numbers. :D
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
just a little note to everyone - weight is less the issue, nor BMI for that matter, than is bodyfat % and where that fat resides (apple [bad] or pear [not so bad] shape) - you can be heavy, and have a moderate bodyfat % and be healthy - the key? - exercise, exercise, exercise
- William Harryman
entirely too damn much! 150lbs (5'5") Grrr
- Susan Beebe
I weight a lot but it's all muscle, so I don't really go by weight. I weigh 160, 5'7, but I look like a weight a lot less.
- Shevonne
117 last time I checked (a few mornings ago). Possibly a little more *right now*, though, since I just ate dinner and a piece of cake.
- Penguin It's Cold Outside
After that burger and fries, I think I'm floating up to 300lbs.
- Admiral Anika