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InsaneNinja › Comments
Spectacular: HD Aquarium Video viewed 740K+ times in a week - http://digg.com/travel_...
"look up a program called "save hollywood" for OSX... its a multi-video screensaver, it allows silence, or volume adjustment, size shifting, shuffle playlist, and its freeware. turn off "draw border", as that wraps the video in black bars.."
- InsaneNinja
Amazon, you are so not allowed to advertise Amazon Prime as "FREE 2-Day Shipping, No Minimum Purchase" when it's still $80 per year.
Barry Biddlecomb, John Bush, Joe Pierce and Angela P. liked this
omg that is soooo true
- Angela P.
I know, it almost made me click on it!
- Dennis Chiuten
With as much photography gear and other such stuff that I've gotten lately. I've saved money with prime. By being impatient.
- InsaneNinja
Face recognition in iPhoto '09 - ok, how does it compare to Picasaweb? Who's the winner?
BeeLing, winckel, InsaneNinja and 5 other people liked this
That´s great because the only reason I didn´t go full on with just flickr is the face detection in picasaweb. Now I can go back to iphoto 09 and flickr (don´t know about mobileme....)
- Thomas Bøhm
Spidra: It´s actually quite cool. You get auto-tagging of names based on face-detection. You can filter out all the pictures your mother-in-law is in for example..
- Thomas Bøhm
Lots and lots of digital cameras have included face detection for some time now. They use it to figure out where to focus for snapshots. This is obviously a completely different application, but my point was: face detection has long been used for things other than security applications.
- James (@willia4)
Even if I haven't tested iPhoto '09 I think the Picasaweb face detection will remain my choice. At least until Flickr offer such utility.
- Håkan Dahlström
Face detection or not, I wasn't impressed with Picasa for Mac. Functionality is OK but the GUI was very non-standard. Hope they fix that.
- Jan Erik Moström
from IM
I assume you won´t need face-detection in the web gallery anymore because you can face detect/auto-tag-name-by-face in iphoto 09 on your desktop and then export them to flickr with the tags...
- Thomas Bøhm
It's very Google-standard to me. Or like the lack of Google standards.
- Håkan Dahlström
:) I don't know if I find it cute or irritating that Google can't keep the same "menu bar" in all their web apps
- Jan Erik Moström
from IM
I´m very strict about the consistency of the UIs of my apps on OS X. Before, on windows, I liked the Picasa UI, but that´s because on windows all apps are skinned differently like crazy anyway.
- Thomas Bøhm
face detection doesn't work yet.
- Thomas Hawk
how about just better file management within iPhoto. Can't import, can't export, its not the right way, its not the duplicate folder its the originals folder etc. Its a great app if you don't do anything like upgrade your hard drive or move photos or anything thats not strictly prescribed by the App itself. It gets a 3 out of 5 starts until it acts more user-friendly.
- Roger Kondrat
Or use Aperture
- Jan Erik Moström
from IM
iPhoto and Aperture doesn't target the same audience. ;-) I like iPhoto. Manage my iPhone photos in it. Great for the easy tasks. Then I put the photos online on Flickr and Zooomr (and Picasaweb).
- Håkan Dahlström
I know. But Picasa has some feature that are similar to Aperture. Played with face recognition for the first time ... especially interesting with photos of my twin sisters :)
- Jan Erik Moström
Twin-sisters could be confusing even for humans. ;-)
- Håkan Dahlström
My wife claims that she can't tell them apart ... after 15 years. I have no problems :)
- Jan Erik Moström
from IM
this is more important than face detection. this is face RECOGNITION. meaning it will present you with a group of images of the same person, asking you to confirm "we think all these faces are your daughter sarah, yes/no?"
- InsaneNinja
@InsaneNinja You're right. That's what I meant. Face recognition. Wish that english was my native language... :-(
- Håkan Dahlström
Neither iPhoto nor Picasa are likely to become my main image post processing application. I've been going from iPhoto to Aperture and then moved to Lightroom. Both Aperture and Lightroom fit my needs so much better.
- Rutger Blom
Google Reader preferences... Sort by oldest or newest?
Brian, Mory, Anthony K. Valley © and 4 other people liked this
Oldest. Everything retains context.
- Mark Philpot
newest
- Chris J. Guerra
newest
- Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)
oldest on journals (livejournal, flickr).. newest on news (cnet, techmeme)
- InsaneNinja
Me? Oldest everyone... context is important for most feeds.
- Ian D. Nock
oldest. Better to get the old stuff out of the way first.
- Mark O'Neill
Newest.
- Jonathan Kong
Newest. Read stuff from the past couple of hours, then go to my 'news' folder and mark all as read. It's irrelevant more quickly than stuff from my humor/science/art feeds
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Oldest.
- Steven Perez
Friendfeed killed all readers.
- Russellreno
Newest.
- Kol Tregaskes
Newest
- Anthony K. Valley ©
it depends
- Кофе без сахара
Oldest on top...
- Siddharth Deb
Newest. But a much better sort choice would be by personal relevance PLUS global strategic impact. Google Reader needs souped up recommender features for news.
- Sean McBride
newest on top
- xero
Oldest.
- Marcos
according to content type; some newest, some oldest.
- Gökmen Karasu
I use always newest
- Kristian Salonen
Oldest
- Brian
Newest except for a few feed that are less usable when out of context.
- Mitch
building in osaka, japan with highway running right through it
Hao Chen, Phil Smirnov, mjc and 72 other people liked this
anyone know what it's called?
- Cee Bee
Yea, effin crazy.
- Mark Krynsky
lol @ Mark
- Derrick
Kinda like the Contemporary hotel at Walt Disney World, but more carbon monoxide-y.
- invariant - farewell FF
In a few years we will find the japanese in floating cities like in the Miyazaki movies.
- vijay
kinda reminds me of the the 2 apartment building in Chincago, w/ 8+ stories of parking
- clarke thomas
So cool, Mexico city needs one of those, Man, I hate that city...
- George The Writer
Oh yeah! You can see that building in The Dark Knight. It's like something out of the Jetsons. The one in Chicago, not Osaka...
- Matt
Cool.
- Ron Bailey
Ha.. This seems like a Sim City moment. If it doesn't work... demolish and make it work.
- Andy K. Cheng
i would hate to work in the floor directly above/below it.
- InsaneNinja
It's probably a very sharp exit to enter that parking lot :) and the Marina towers in Chicago are way prettier than this.
- Juan Pablo González
surely there couldn't be any offices near the tunnel. how could they work?
- Valley
Trying to import an additional 300,000 plus photos into my Lightroom catalog. Hoping Lightroom's up for the task and wondering if the import job will be done by the time I get home from work today.
Brian Johns, Chris Farrugia, Holger Eilhard and 23 other people liked this
Interested to see how it does. Why the huge catalog? Why not date or theme based sub-catalogs? I don't view Lightroom as my full archive manager, rather best for my current workflow. I export a catalog for each project separately with the DNGs & rely on other means to search photos in the archive.
- Jeremy Hall
Jeremy, that's how I've been using it so far, as my workflow tool and not so much for my entire archive and that's still how I'm using it on my Mac. But I thought I'd try importing my 2002-2007 archive on my PC version to see how it handles performance with that large a library. I've been wanting to go back through my archive and do more processing and hopefully it handles the archive library well enough.
- Thomas Hawk
Having one giant archive is probably not a good idea. I maintain archive catalogs broken up by year. I have separate catalogs for unprocessed pictures/projects which I then merge into the archive catalogs as they are completed. I will say that I am considering going back and reprocessing some pictures from a number of years ago.
- Jauder Ho
the huge archive is more of an experiment. I'm hoping it works because I've still got tons of old unprocessed shots in my archive that I'd like to process.
- Thomas Hawk
I think it's a great experiment. I may try this myself, though my archive is a bit smaller, it still has some size :)
- Jeremy Hall
well Lightroom's not handling the job so well. When I got home it showed that it was still in the process of importing photos but Lightroom seemed frozen. it was stuck on about 106,000 photos for the upgrade. I canceled the import and went back and am trying to manually synch the individual subfolders but LR is very unresponsive.
- Thomas Hawk
Yikes, Thomas! I'm still trying to get used to LR. I read on a photography forum, for batch imports PS is better... Good luck and thanks for the updates. :)
- Mona Nomura
Are you running on Mac or Windows? If on Mac have you turned on 64-bit mode? Wonder if that will help ... I haven't had too much experience in Lightroom library of that size, however after I turned on 64 bit mode I notice Lightroom is just a tad faster. (I am on MacPro with 8GB RAM)
- Clarence Chiang
OMG that is going to totally tank their prod servers!! ha, ha!! you are a BAD end user!! LOL
- Susan Beebe
I'm running this version on a Windows Vista PC. I'm only using LR2 on my Mac for my production of my current photos. Thought I'd try my copy on the PC for my large archive as I want to go back and process some photos that I skipped the first time around. It's just really really sloowwwww now that I've got over 100,000 RAW files imported into it. Will keep trying though.
- Thomas Hawk
I couldn't even get LR2 to load up after about 5 minutes. I let it sit and am now back downstairs on the Mac for a while. I'll go back and check it in 15 minutes or so and see if it's finally booted up and then try to import even more photos into it.
- Thomas Hawk
Yikes! What percentage do you think you will discard, and how many will go through post-processing? Given how much and often you shoot, I've wondered how you control the volume - not unlike Robert Scoble's social "noise".
- jcunwired
Yes LR import can be quite slow. Although I usually perform a NEF to DNG conversion along with the import. Last week I imported 3000+ shots (from my Greece trip) to LR 2.0 and it took 2+ hours.
- Clarence Chiang
well, I won't discard anything. I never delete photos. Instead I'll just go through the archive and flag a bunch of old ones to process. Not sure how many I'll find that I'll feel like processing. I'm still 2 months behind on my current photo workflow so this will likely be a long term work in progress. I almost always find photos that I passed on the first time around though when going through my archives that I reconsider and process.
- Thomas Hawk
300,000 photos? holy, that would totally crash my browser.
- Amir
TH, if you do a search for Lightroom on my site, you'll see I had similar problems with it. Granted, it was version 1, but anything over 10,000 seemed to cause LR to crash and corrupt the catalog files. That meant having to re-import photos, rebuild previews and thumbnails, and losing meta-data that hadn't been written to the XMP files. LR2 seems more stable, but I've divvied my library by years and keep a catalog for each. It's safer that way.
- Raoul Pop
i have 3 separate catalogs, the largest managing 22,000 files. i dont really have much of an issue, but thats probably because the bulk of which are on the drobo.
- InsaneNinja
@Clarance, When importing that many, it may be easier to import as raw, but convert to DNG while you sleep. I'm not quite sure where i read that tip, but its useful.
- InsaneNinja
TH - I read somewhere that there is a limit on the LR catalogs...and I KNOW it was no where near 300,000...not even 100,000. I don't think LR was built to handle LARGE catalogs...or that's what I'm learning at least.
- Justin Korn
There is a known bug that it causes problems if you have too many top level folders. The suggested fix is to add a parent folder.
- Jauder Ho
I have about 30,000 photos in my catalog. No problems here.
- Ole Begemann
it seems to be working much better after letting it sit last night. total photos in catalog at this point 167,640. Going to work this weekend and try to get even more in there. It would rock if I could get all 300,000+ photos in my 2002-2007 archive in there.
- Thomas Hawk
My entire library is 76GB and 26,400 files. No problems here. I am going back to look for needles in the hay stack. Most of those are within the last 12 months though.
- Russellreno
sounds like an instance where defragging after you are done would really help.
- mjc
I love lightroom, but I still haven't figured out how to use it for long term archival; I too use it for current workflow only. One of the reasons it's not very useful for me for long-term archival is that it's so slow at moving files around. Another reason is that for DNG vs JPG, it works exactly the opposite from me - I like the JPGs at the top level "event" folder and the original DNGs in a sub-folder (./originals), while Lightroom likes it the other way around...
- Yaniv Golan
my suggestion yaniv is that you split catalogues out. Probably by year
- Phill Price
Ok, I left Lightroom to run all night and came back this a.m. with an error message that Photoshop (not Lightroom which is odd) had closed. I relaunched it and I've got 198,344 photos imported into it now. Getting closer. performance is definitely an issue though and yesterday was challenging at times trying to use it to process photos.
- Thomas Hawk
Why I Hate Video - http://thomashawk.com/2008...
Darren Barefoot, Russellreno, Patphelan and 12 other people liked this
I agree with you completely. I've wasted countless hours trying to convert videos between formats. Enough already!!!!
- Roberto Bonini
There's alot more work when your done shooting, but I'd hate to see you give up on that idea. It sounds like a great idea for a show. besides, your must get amazing shots. oting, but I'd hate to see you give up on the idea. besides, your must get some amazing shots!
- Michael Fidler
from twhirl
Twirl is doing some strange things and it won't let post the links I want to send you, I'll try it from the browser
- Michael Fidler
from twhirl
Thomas - vidoe is a lot of work. However I imagine there are many interns and geekies out there who wuld love to wokr with you and do some of the heavy lifting. Video is much easier with a team - even a team of 2.
- Roxanne Darling
from twhirl
Thomas - video is a lot of work however maybe you can find an intern or ass't to do the processing? Having a team really helps!
- Roxanne Darling
from twhirl
ULead Video Studio 11 edits TOD natively. It will make DVDs, web versions, etc from there. Spend a few $$, save a million headaches.
- Ben Watson
from twhirl
5DII video clips are recorded in .MOV format using an MPEG-4 video compression. (from Gizmodo). Also, VOB is a raw dvd file, play it in the VLC player, which should be every geek's fallback player.
- InsaneNinja
Curious; how is it that despite there being so many competing image formats, JPG came to be nearly ubiquitous - whereas with video we've yet to see any one format dominate? And where are the video library management programs that'll suck up video in any format, convert and export to any other, and let you organize and tag the things (a la Lightroom for photos)? It seems almost archaic that I'm using a folder structure rather than a database driven app to do this.
- Eric P
Ben, I'd consider buying software like ULead but I'm just not sure in the end that it won't just be a headache like the whole video process thing. Can you try their software for a month before you buy like Adobe does with Lightroom? I'd be happy to try it but don't want to spend a bunch of money on something that just doesn't work in the end.
- Thomas Hawk
InsaneNinja, part of the problem is that I don't want to play my files in the VLC player. I can't watch them on my TV this way. I want to be able to play my videos through Windows Media Center which is what I'm using right now for my home entertainment. It sucks that I can't easily do this.
- Thomas Hawk
"And where are the video library management programs that'll suck up video in any format, convert and export to any other, and let you organize and tag the things (a la Lightroom for photos)?" Eric, that's *exactly* what I'd like to see. I wouldn't mind everyone having their own format if there were a way that you could convert things to your format of choice. It shouldn't be as hard as it is for consumers.
- Thomas Hawk
Eric. JPG is an older standard that could create a low file size with little compression, necessary in the days of 56k modems. Such as how mp3s with their 2-speaker stereo sound and high compression were necessary back then as well. MP4(aka m4v/m4a) is currently taking over as a dominant video format, with its high compression with low degradation, and being popularized by itunes and blogcasts.
- InsaneNinja
Blip.tv is amazing. it uploads flv perfectly. I've decided that eveything goes to blip.tv. I'm not licking Mike Hudack's balls... it just seems to me that the best system for compatibility is that. plus cross publishing is *SO* important and it doesn't kill ur blog load because it starts with just an image. if there is a video standard it should be blip.tv. I would love to see blip.tv thread conversations... that happens and Seesmic is a goner. drawback is there is no blip.tv for friendfeed!
- Noah David Simon
You have my sympathy, Video is such a pain, I just edited a video of my 16month old son it was such a hassle, I used Adobe Premier seemed to work well enough. In the end I have the memory captured thats what counts
- Dean Blithe
video is a world in itself... some format problems are like a language I don't understand. I copy and splice in quicktime pro and it plays well enough... but on upload to seesmic it all gets lost. conversion from DVD is hard... but we know we can get a DVD to AVI easy enough.
- Noah David Simon
@Thomas, while i have a hard time believing this, many sites claim that some VOBs are compressed in a way that you can rename the extension to mpg. (DVDs are coded in MPEG2). I'm sure you have attempted this already.
- InsaneNinja
my main concern is why someone can't make an FLV converter to quicktime for the public domain. with all this web video it kills me that I can't edit it
- Noah David Simon
Same here. I bought a HDV tape camcorder and Final Cut Express. Then had to add a separate hard disk for clip cache. Post production takes way too long. Imovie 08 is terrible. Back to video clips from point and shoot camera pasted together in Quicktime.
- Alan Morris
it is amazing how many codec's and archives there are... sometimes u r taking video from one format and overlaying another... it actually has gotten better then when I first used a firewired mac in 1998
- Noah David Simon
one last comment i hope... http://www.mediacodec.org .. a WMP codec that claims to support FLV, FLAC, VOB among many others
- InsaneNinja
again... if working on a project... I can't recommend enough blip.tv. you could gather all the different clip and formats onto one blip.tv stream and call it a web broadcast
- Noah David Simon
Well the only thing I have that takes video is my small point and shoot Canon SD550. All I have to do is copy the files from the SD card and put them where ever I want to store them on my computer. They are already in .avi format so are easy to view and pretty easy to compress for uploading as well. Forget those big, expensive, clunky video only cameras!
- Becca
VLC can do quite a lot conversions between different formats. People just don't know it. Try ctrl-W
- Tapio Kulmala
Matthew, I tried editing the TOD files on my Mac using iMovie. It didn't work. iMovie didn't recognize the file format. I thought by buying a major brand name like JVC I'd be safe in getting video I could edit. Even the Mac can't do that though. That sucks for a consumer and JVC ought to have to put a warning label on their camera that it can't play on any device.
- Thomas Hawk
abacac, I checked out that link. It includes a lot of formats but unfortunately doesn't mention JVC's crappy .TOD format.
- Thomas Hawk
not free > http://www.convertmod.com/ claims to convert jvc TOD files
- InsaneNinja
.TOD is just a mpeg file. Rename the file and any software should be able to process it.
- Tapio Kulmala
Sorry Thomas, I was noticing some mention of other formats, too, and threw that out there. Dunno if you've read these comments yet re: changing file extensions and/or using Premiere/SDCopy: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets...
- abacab
I feel your frustration. It is part of the control freak hell we live in today. Proprietary formats for something you create is just not acceptable. Concluesion JVC Sucks big time.
- DC Crowley
from twhirl
Proprietary formats on video camera = totally uncaceptable. Just like the one RAW format is not the same as the next one. We are being screwed. Also Jobs dropping firewire last week on one of the Mac books = a massive FAIL. We will lose all of or archiving capabilities with this crap. In another 4-5 years or DVD's won't work either and we'll need to transfer it all again so that the manufacturers can keep laughing all the way to the bank. Can we start some sort of action group on this. Enough is enough.
- DC Crowley
from twhirl
your first mistake was asking Steve Gillmor for advice :-)
- Duncan Riley
haha! Duncan your a bitch :p
- DC Crowley
A great video conversion tool is VisualHub (thanks to Leo Laporte for the tip), but the developer closed up shop earlier this month. You can still download it at http://www.geekmeetsgirl.net/visualh..., and hopefully it will go Open Source.
- Nils Sandin
i really dislike how this is handled.. all these photos WORK
- InsaneNinja
Yeah what's up with that?
- Michael Hocter
FriendFeed Readered - https://www.google.com/reader...
Since friendfeed moves so fast, i dont see a reason to even TRY keeping up on it. BUT, i've found that subscribing to FF users via Google Reader is far more entertaining and informative...
- InsaneNinja
from Bookmarklet
Sinfest - http://www.sinfest.net/archive...
my mornings need perked up somewhat
- InsaneNinja
from Bookmarklet
Amazon.com - crumpler million - http://www.amazon.com/s...
Anyone know why all the crumpler bags are out of stock? Thats always a sign of change in the electronics biz.
- InsaneNinja
from Bookmarklet
If I Twitter in Twinkle do other Twinks in my neighborhood see it? Inquiring minds want to know!
Zulu, Derek, Mat and 9 other people liked this
Oh Leo, I do not think these words mean what you think they mean.
- Eric J. Klooster
from fftogo
I bet if you Twinkle in Twitter some Twinks will definitely see it...
- xero
I'm not sure that calling them "Twinks" is the best idea btw...
- xero
Leo google the word twinks.
- loren feldman
Oh, Leo. You straight, straight man.
- Jason Bentley
this should win an award for the funniest tweet of the week .... something lol
- John Blanton
from twhirl
If you sprinkle when you tinkle, be a sweetie and wipe the seatie
- Andrew Smith
Oh, it made it over into the FRIEDfeed room
- xero
haha. This comment made me laugh. Yeah I wonder how surprised Leo will be when he finds some twinks in his neighborhood. :)
- Grant Gochnauer
Classic Leo :)
- Marshall Bose
I don't think you want Twinks watching you Twinkle....
- Robert Ellison
If you twinkle my twitter, can I pownce on your friendfeed?
- Jim Bednarz
How many Twinkle tips could TWIT's twitter tweeter tweet, if TWIT's twitter tweeter could tweet tips?
- InsaneNinja
This is sounding grosser by the comment. :p
- Helen Sventitsky
I very much enjoyed this whole post and it's lovely comments. Leo, you're awesome. Heh
- Lise
I like the twinkle feature of nearby, I found some new folks by using it that I already knew. Bad if you are being stalked.
- Alan Ashley
from twhirl
Interesting Conversation About Friends on FriendFeed and Comment Clustering - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-bo...
siavash, John Cass, Mitchell Tsai and 34 other people liked this
Kevin Fox has started an interesting conversation here: http://friendfeed.com/e... about whether he should be able to start a conversation and have it just for his friends on FriendFeed. What do you think?
- Robert Scoble
I want only my friends to comment on this. Thanks.
- Robert Scoble
See, Kevin, this is how you handle it if you want only your friends to comment on something and you don't want it joined into some other conversation.
- Robert Scoble
There's no reason two conversations in separate circles about the same thing should be consolidated into one place.
- Dominik Hofmann
Arrrggghhh, I meant to link to this: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Robert Scoble
Robert are we friends? My friends list says we are so I am making a comment. Thanks for doing what you do if not for you my FF, twitter and many other sites would be boring.
- Admiral70
and lets loop the loops on why this started.. scoble injected a link and every1 crys foul (me 2!!) http://friendfeed.com/e... . then open another thread to discuss Comment Clustering ..(Btw I hope McCan joins the convo !! ) all in all a good tapestry of healhty converstions and user centric thoughts and behaviours..
- Peter Dawson
The question is, what makes one a friend? The fact that i'm following them? What if they're not following me, then i'm not their friend? For example, Scoble's not following me, am I not able to comment?
- Les Zaldor
you are quite free to start up your own cluster but he has every right to discuss it with *his* friends. thats the way the world works
- Jamie
I'm sorry if I misstated my intent. My intent in starting a new thread was not to *limit* the conversation to my 'friends' but rather to *seed* the conversation with my own friends, and the friends of those people who thought it was interesting enough to comment on or like (as FriendFeed was designed to facilitate). The other conversation was already exposed to over 15,000 people who were not friends or friends-of-friends of mine, and I found value in initiating another conversation in another context.
- Kevin Fox
Jamie, I've no problem with Robert discussing or sharing the conversation with his friends. This would be accomplished by 'liking' or participating in the conversation in any manner. The difference was that the comment he left seemed to be an explicit instruction to participate in a different ongoing conversation instead, and seemed to defeat the specific purpose of my sharing the item in the first place. (EDIT: I am dumb and misunderstood Jamie's comment)
- Kevin Fox
Kevin: if you had stated your intent, I would have respected that. I figured that you just started your own comment cluster and wanted people to know we were already discussing that somewhere else.
- Robert Scoble
Here's my dumbass 2 cents: Scoble... I think your comment look like a "Hey you don't need to start this again we are already doing it" type of statement. I don't know if it was but some received it that way. When received that way it takes away from the idea of FF. Again not claiming you meant it that way just saying that's what it looked like and that's what touched nerves.
- Cody Heitschmidt
from fftogo
Kevin, not sure if you misinterpreted my comments but I was agreeing with you. The world discusses the same things in their own, smaller social graphs. This is simply replicated with FriendFeed. This isn't a forum where the same threads appearing multiple times hinders the conversation . FriendFeed is different in that the experience is defined by who you deem as a friend. So yeah, I agree with you
- Jamie
"The difference was that the comment he left seemed to be an explicit instruction " - Kevin you own your own thread.. delete Scobles comment if you dont like it.. I would do it without even blinking .. !
- Peter Dawson
Peter makes a great point.
- Robert Scoble
Methinks we've wandered into a dizzying social and mental loop.
- Sean McBride
@Raymond those are valid points and it would be nice if FF could add a BFC feature ("big fucking cluster") whereby all comments pertaining to a particular URL are aggregated to allow you to view all comments and see other viewpoints. But likewise the ability to have lots of clusters around the same URL is important IMO.
- Jamie
Thought about deleting it, but somehow that seemed overly aggressive. Ahh, hindsight! :-)
- Kevin Fox
I thought Robert's first comment was more along the lines of Lets Not Reinvent The Wheel than it is was a challenge to you. If everybody's comments are together we all learn. Plus, it makes no sense to have to pick which conversation to join. That said, you have every right to respond that you only want "your" friends in the conversation, but isn't that what rooms are for?
- Victor Ryden
Finally after reading through to the last comment (so far) I 'get' the meta convo. It reminds me of (for English speakers) the oft repeated passenger-to-driver-giving-directions-in-the-car tower of babel: "Turn Left here?"..."Right."..."--Right--?"..."No. LEFT!"..."Next street?"..."No, right here."..."So, Left right here"..."Right, Left right here - right now - go!"..."That was it right there?"..."Umm, yeah, we passed it, so turn around and then it'll be on your right, not left"..."Right."..."Right".
- Micah Wittman
+1 Sean McBride - me too!; +1 Jamie - BFC is funny idea!; +1 Jason - smart "room" idea.
- Susan Beebe
This is all based on the interpretation that I wanted to have a conversation that would be limited to my friends, but that's not the case at all. The idea of FriendFeed, and a major differentiator over say, Digg or Reddit, is that a single item could be shared by several people in different areas of the social geography and they could have different conversations about the same item....
more...
- Kevin Fox
I think that assumption is an interesting one, but at least partially faulty and VERY poorly implemented.
- Robert Scoble
I will do a video to explain why it is a bad assumption and poorly implemented.
- Robert Scoble
@Scoble I think you linked to the "McCain" entry instead of the conversation. :)
- Shivanand Velmurugan
Robert: I'll be happy to see it. I do hope that while making it you'll keep in mind that your own usage of FriendFeed is definitely not the norm, and that by any metric (followers, subscriptions, feed velocity) you're all the way at the left end of the power curve, and that may make your expectations and ideals different than most users.
- Kevin Fox
I'll say this - understanding that my view is probably the minority by a long shot - 1 really interesting thing about the duplication that FF currently allows (forces?) is that it provides a quick (albeit highly unscientific) survey of which stories, blog posts or conversations generate interest and which don't. I went to the everyone tab and searched for "McCain New York Times" and "McCain Internet" to further reinforce something I suspected I had already picked up on: the internet story reigned supreme
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Kevin: I have a great understanding of that. I've shown FriendFeed to a TON of people and they say that their #1 hatred of FF is the noise and the duplication that they see. That's what I'm trying to solve.
- Robert Scoble
Apparently Kevin because Robert stumbled on your thread, he was already your friend or perhaps in some other way in your Friendfeed vicinity -- and you say you wanted to discuss this with friends -- so from his point of view your entry may have looked like a dupe. And dupes among segments of friends are indeed a problem on Friendfeed. Nobody minds the dupes we don't notice, but we may mind having the conversation on the same thing split up among segments of our friends.
- Philipp Lenssen
[sorry for the cross post, but I'm seeing this thread in two locations]
- Philipp Lenssen
Philipp: exactly. I try to remove duplication when I see it, or, warn one group of friends that another group of friends is talking about the same thing. If someone is talking about something I am interested in, I hope someone pulls that into my view, too.
- Robert Scoble
I agree that duplication of content is a huge opportunity to improve FriendFeed, but I disagree with the idea that combining conversations is the right way to do it. Clustering is. People who have a modest number of subscriptions will see only one of the conversations, the one filled with people who have greater social proximity. Your method of combining conversations forces them to...
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- Kevin Fox
them.
- Kevin Fox
The most important question: Would Kevin prefer to A) Remove one word from the larger comment, or B) Ask a colleague to make the comment field to be 5 characters larger, or C) Let the word "them" hang?
- Louis Gray
Bret Taylor wrote a blog post a long time ago proposing two possible alternative views for Friendfeed (link-centric and people-centric). The link-centric proposal seemed to make sense to me at the time. I've thought about using the API to implement the idea to see how it works in practice, but of course I haven't had the time. I think Moopz attempts to do it to some degree. I dunno though. I can also see Kevin's point, there's some value in the chaos and fragmentation.
- Jason Wehmhoener
It's a real pain to make a comment longer than the comment field allows, and I didn't know it would clip till after I sent it. Editing a long comment is similarly hard, so I opted for the humor value and just added the word. ;-)
- Kevin Fox
The clustering is great as long as you don't see too many dupes Kevin. Wouldn't it drive you crazy to have to follow 5 different conversations on the exact same thing in your community of friends (and potentially state your same argument over and over if the conversation heads in the same direction)? Not to say there's an easy solution... just merging different threads by posting a pointer, like you might do in a more traditional forum, does not work perfectly with the Friendfeed system.
- Philipp Lenssen
Trebor: To reiterate, I wasn't trying to 'only talk to my friends'. I was trying to start a conversation in my social circle, and the audience would expand as people responded. This is why the 'Rooms' suggestion doesn't work. As for threading, the challenge is that you have to do it in such a way that it makes sense for the person who can only see one of the threads, two of the threads,...
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- Kevin Fox
I'll be filming a Qik video in a minute or two at http://www.qik.com/scobleizer
- Robert Scoble
It's up at http://qik.com/video/135273
- Robert Scoble
Film @ 11 is already up on the tubes! man you're fast Robert! ;-) I like it! distributed comm or single mode...interesting
- Susan Beebe
I agree Dupes are a problem. FWIW, on Philipps' forum , if we try to open a thread with a same URI and/or combo of words, then the s/w is intelligent enough to warn us. In this manner, the commnity does not create dupes and we do have VERY VERY intelligent conversations on and about GOOG's mostly and watching Scobles video - will comment here after I watch that .
- Peter Dawson
".. I have 5 friend too - off course I have more".- Scobles :)- !! Anyhoot, why do you think that you are a content connector ? Dont you think that the users are aware of this and they need turn the knob on themselves to gain that insight from the micro to the macro viewpoints ? Secondly, if you wanted to really connect people you could have your own thread which said (a) Good convo here and then (b) heres another link with same topic ..and so on..
- Peter Dawson
I really like Kevin's clustering idea.
- Jason Wehmhoener
@Robert: Nice video !! But I think that room-based approach will not scale coz a room needs a moderator who needs to screen people every time he gets a request to join. Its like people knocking on the room and someone telling that they're not allowed inside. A much more scalable approach is for the person who's posting to actually share the item to only a few friends of his, that way...
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- Krishna Gade
Certainly Not. I've watched Robert's video and I couldn't agree less with him. It would be terrible if lots of conversations were carried on behind closed doors - which is what he's advocating. It would completely defeat the purpose of having an open system where people can actually move through the social network and discover each other. Likewise it would be terrible if all of the conversations about the same content were aggregated together automatically just like reddit.
- Robin Barooah
Has anyone stopped to wonder why it is we love FriendFeed so much? I think the quality of the conversation has a lot to do with the fact that it is seeded in small groups and then grows across the social network. Duplicates may be annoying some of us, but are they such a problem that we should risk destroying the community to get rid of them?
- Robin Barooah
(happily duplicating my comments across two separate threads - it's worth it for this!)
- Robin Barooah
they could use a "Save as Friends/Publicly" option in the bookmarklette. But, as for the google reader example, that's hard. Sometime friendfeed is in the back of your mind when your favoring things. On news stories, the commenting would be intense, and in multiple languages. And on flickr, you could be favoring 3 year old photos.
- InsaneNinja
@Robin I agree, that the seeding part is one of the things that I like the most in FF. It's interesting to see what gets picked up by various circles. But I would like to see a decrease in the dupes. Robert, your vid was great in that it brought the "questions" to light. One of the drawbacks to me with Digg is also one of it's strengths- "checking for duplications" it slows down the process for me when I'm trying to share something that A. I know is original. B. Is trying to correct an original source.
- michael sean wright
Thanks for the video, Robert! I've left my mega-response (at least in terms of FF comment sizes) on that item's thread, to keep the content closer to its referenced content: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Kevin Fox
Man, I just caught up on this conversation, and it's one of the best I've seen on Friendfeed to date -- there are some very smart people on this service who are wrestling with some of the most interesting issues on the cutting edge of interfaces for social communication. Fox and Scoble have convinced me that some conversations on the same topic should be entirely disjunct, some should intersect and some should be unified. Deciding which should be which should be a matter of free choice and negotiation.
- Sean McBride
I follow 490 people including Kevin and Robert. I saw Robert's comment on Kevin's conversation early in that conversation. What I don't understand is how those long conversations disappear in my feed, then randomly reappear. I am following too many people? I really notice this when I go to Best of Day and find long conversation I did not know existed.
- Russellreno
Once again I am talking to an empty room.
- Russellreno
Russell, I think we are all trying to figure it out. I tack the link into my playboy room and thats how I track good conversations, even after days.. :)- In fact the convo has moved from this thread and onto another thread here <http://friendfeed.com/e...> Now I wish that FF has a lock this thread feature :)-
- Peter Dawson
@pop17 Those Playboy polls are insulting and demeaning. Most people put up with them for the publicity - good on you for protesting.
Mark, Larry Kless, Andy Lewandowski and 17 other people liked this
Leo is also insulted that he wasn't selected to be on the list! :snickers to himself:
- Geoff Schultz
Just curious, I don't want to start a potentially ugly debate, but how exactly is it insulting? Thanks.
- Randy
Randy: It's not, not in general. But I can think of any number of reasons why an individual might *feel* insulted, and they're entitled to their feelings.
- Roger Benningfield
So it insulting and demeaning for playboy to post a head shot of Sarah Austin, for a poll and she wants it taken down. Fine it is her image and that is her right. Though is it also insulting and demeaning that Sarah spent todays entire episode of Pop17 playing the Wii fit girl video over and over? http://www.viddler.com/explore.... Will she pull down that episode if the Wii fit girl ask her too?
- Charles Dick
Um, settle down, Beavis. :) The "insulting and demeaning" thing is Leo's. I asked Sarah here on FF if she was offended by Playboy's offered opportunity, and she said she wasn't. It's possible that she's just not comfortable being put in a competitive position with these other women... not everyone loves a contest. Don't project Leo's bias on to her.
- Roger Benningfield
I'm happy whenever a decent guy defends women's rights to not be objectified. Go, Leo!
- kiwinerd
Yeah, I don't know the whole situation, but this is *Playboy*. I think we all know what their motives are. And in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a male, but I think it's all about the way in which it's presented. Some women may feel as though this is akin to walking down the street and running into a bunch of guys going ga-ga and saying, "Whip out dem tits baybee!" But unlike real life, if you don't like what you're seeing in the Internets, you can close the window/tab and ignore it.
- Randy
From what I understand and, have read quite a few of those women (if not all) were made aware by Playboy that their pictures and bios were going up in the poll. Although, apparently they weren't aware the winner may be asked to pose nude. Given that and, the fact a commenter here said she wasn't offended, I wonder why she wants it taken down?
- The Geek Media
I also can appreciate and respect her desire to not have her "brand" associated with that one. Insulting may be a little strong however. After all PB is not exactly triple X material.
- Robert
It's totally insulting. Playboy values women only for their looks. "Win" the poll and get an invite to pose nude. Yick. Would you ask Einstein to pose nude? I would hope that Sarah is more interested in being valued for what she knows than how she looks. If you think Playboy's vah vah voom attitude isn't demeaning to women you might want to examine your values.
- Leo Laporte
To tell you the truth, I hope that the winner chooses not to pose (especially if it's Brigitte, because I follow her video blog). Somehow something important would be lost IMHO, whether it's a perception of innocence on the part of her followers or something else. Somehow it seems wrong to me, it's hard to explain
- Thomas B
from NoiseRiver
"If you think Playboy's vah vah voom attitude isn't demeaning to women you might want to examine your values" Luv ya, Leo, but couldja show me your "I'm a middle-aged guy entitled to speak for women" certificate? I believe these legal adults made their own decisions - and some had "poser's remorse" afterwards (posus interruptus?)
- Dean Barnett
Well that's a good question. Did Playboy ask permission? They certainly don't have to - all the women are public figures. If Playboy did, that's great. If Sarah said yes and then regretted it, I can certainly understand, but at that point Playboy has no obligation to take it down.
- Leo Laporte
Yeah, wow Leo. Tone down the snark a bit. Oh, and I wouldn't ask Einstein to pose nude because 1) He's *dead*, and 2) He isn't sexy to me. It's as simple as that. Playboy isn't drugging up runaways on Sunset Boulevard, they're saying, "Hey, flat out--we think you're attractive and some people may want to see you naked. Cool? It's not? That's cool too."
- Randy
Unsure about the Playboy thing. After all, @shelisrael and @Scobleizer posed topless. Maybe if more male bloggers--never mind!
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Now seeing someone only for their looks is one thing. But this started based off their jobs.. AND, its saying that they have the brains to be in this position, and yet also have amazing looks. It's hardly insulting unless someone takes offense to what most would consider a compliment, or a dream offer.
- InsaneNinja
I agree with Leo. Its simply an opinion poll. The only thing they could possibly be asked to take down is the picture, and that was probably taken by their own photographers anyway, so no take-down there. The Funny part I think is what is it with Mothers taking their 8 year olds, to go to a signing for Playboy Models.... Please someone explain that. But besides that, it brings and interesting question of how companies deal with polls. Do you think its right for things like that, be put live without consent?
- Tyler (Chacha)
Well they are meant to be fun. But i was wondering if they ask for the Bloggers to agree to be on it or not? I don't know that.
- Jorge
I think that just the simple fact that they're objectifying these women can be construed to be both demeaning and insulting. However, on a personal basis, I wouldn't mind Playgirl putting my ugly mug on a poll. Further, since they are public figures, I don't think Playboy has to ask to do anything with their faces and bios.
- Charles Ju
Leo: I have so many problems with what you're saying that I scarcely know where to start. :) Saying that Playboy only values women for their looks is like saying that ESPN only values Kobe Bryant for his athleticism... um, yeah, so? If Einstein were hot and alive in 2008, we would have already seen him at least half-naked via Perez. And since when is life a series of binary options? Why can't a woman be valued for what she knows *and* how she looks? *And* how she can belch the Constitution's preamble?
- Roger Benningfield
Leo: But most of all... "examine your values"? That's an awfully high horse you've got there, Mr. Laporte. Beware the steeplechase. :)
- Roger Benningfield
Roger: I am kinda with you on that one. I mean if we can not value someone for their looks than Hollywood should just shut down, modeling should become illegal and teeth whitening the subject of tabloids. Also all of those old oil paintings in the Louvre? Confiscate them. I think people took their clothes off for a lot of them. PB is about as Americana as Elvis by many people's estimates. To be sure a lot of extreme adult stuff is distasteful to a majority of people. Not sure that I see this in that light.
- Robert
I don't much care for Playboy either, but seriously don't get why the intelligentsia is so anti-beauty. It's weird. I'd just reiterate what I said more extensively in this conversation: http://friendfeed.com/e... , which is: beauty is just as valid a way for the world to unfold as is anything else. Kinda agreeing with Roger and Robert here.
- Anthony Citrano
I'm an adult woman and a loyal member of the "TWiT army", and I back Leo strongly here. Leo's defence, on air and off, of women's and girls' rights - like the right to not be objectified - is way admirable. Leo Laporte is the Chief TWiT for a reason, and it's not just for his technical, journalistic, and teaching prowess and friendly demeanour. Leo's a fundamentally decent person, a role model, which is why it matters that he exerts leadership. Leo, you're my hero!
- kiwinerd
Well said @kiwinerd! I believe that is why so many good people are drawn to Leo.
- Jim Bednarz
I don't know why you people are criticizing Leo for openly protecting the liberties of another human being. It's pretty ridiculous that Leo has to defend his stance, you guys are immature and should be ashamed. Just think if your wife, gf, sister, or mother was put into a Playboy poll, would you be ok with that? If not, then you're a hypocrite.
- Charles Ju
Doesn't the poll just boil down to "Who would you rather see naked?" That seems like a pretty crude and immature question to me.
- Mark
So, Mark, once one "matures", they don't like to see girls naked? I'm also not getting what's "crude" about naked women. I dislike Playboy, too, but because of their unapologetic tack and ordinariness, not that they aspire to worship at the altar of women they find attractive.
- Anthony Citrano
Ask yourself why it's important to get female bloggers naked, and yet nearly everone wants to keep the male bloggers fully clothed. It doesn't strike you the least bit odd that only guys can be noteworthy simply for the work they do? I've been playing around on the net for 15 years, and I learned quickly not to let people know I was female. No one asks for pictures if he thinks you're a guy; it's what you say that's important. Reveal your gender, and the request for pictures -- clothed or sans -- begin.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
I was trying to say that the concept of the poll, any kind of poll like this, seems just kind of stupid. I agree with those that say these kind of layouts make women objects - I think MiniMage makes this point very well. As a man, I know I have to fight the temptation to see women only in terms of their appearance. I think things like Playboy and this poll play to almost a caveman instinct. Is this really what being a man is all about - voting on which woman I would rather see naked?
- Mark
Examined values, don't think it is demeaning. We've seen the emails asking permission. They didn't even need to do that.
- matthew
I see what you mean Mark. I'm just saying I don't get why saying a woman is sexy/beautiful is objectifying. Pointing out one asset of a person in no way diminishes the others. I mean, if someone says to me "that's a great article you wrote" or "what a great picture you took", I don't stomp my feet and get indignant and whine, "is that all I am to you? just a string of words?! what about my heart, my soul, my cooking, my business skills??"
- Anthony Citrano
@MiniMage - the reason men ask for pictures of women is because men are far, far more visually motivated than women. Guys care what women look like more than women care what guys look like. I also disagree with your premise; women can be noteworthy simply for the work they do - plenty are. But if one is beautiful, I just don't see why that's a bad thing. The world gives everybody certain gifts - and beauty is no more or less a gift than athletic ability, speaking skills, or being a good programmer.
- Anthony Citrano
@Anthony Citrano (acitrano): The premise isn't mine; it's the message I get from Playboy. I get that guys have the visual "on" switch. Furthermore, I'd be lying if I claimed my eyes only looked at my beloved technology. However, I think this goes beyond (beneath?) "this blogger is an excellent combination of functionality and form." Can't women be beautiful without looking like they're about to cater to a fella's, ah, reproductive instinct?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
from NoiseRiver
@Mini - understood. And I'm not sticking up for them; as I said, I'm not a fan. Just was exploring our reaction to the broader issue of beauty. I think sometimes people have this knee-jerk reaction that's weirdly anti-beauty, or at least anti-beauty-appreciation. And you're right that they're not pitching the whole product, no. But they're in "entertainment," so what can we expect? :)
- Anthony Citrano
Interesting discussion on a provocative subject. The double standard in political correctness bothers me. PB bad but XYZ thing good. Males are visual I get that too and who would apologize for biology? My wife has had a net presence for years and she gets a lot of interesting emails to say the least, most are pretty poor attempts but some are rather funny and creative in a non-threatening sort of way. It is simply nature.
- Robert
Why does FriendFeed recommend that you subscribe to people, but it doesn't also recommend blocking certain people too? I notice certain people are getting blocked by tons of people. Unfortunately newbies will have to see their spew for a while until they get wise that they can block them too.
Tyson Key, edythe, Andrew Smith and 24 other people liked this
What, like a most frequently blocked list? Interesting idea. I actually think some might strive to make such a list.
- AJ Kohn
Unless it is blatantly obvious spam I would hope FriendFeed would not recommend blocking people. That just seems so against the idea of social inyeraction even though some control is necessary.
- Scott Jarkoff
What a blow to the suggested blockee's self-confidence, unless they're a spam bot.
- Eric Schlissel
from twhirl
AJ: yeah, that's the downside of such a list.
- Robert Scoble
@scobleizer: Their recommendation algorithm is so basic ! based only on how "popular" were those users... I won't trust a redcommended "to block" list if they implement it
- directeur
from NoiseRiver
@yesthatkarim: That's called karma. And karma, Karim, is a bad thing :)
- directeur
from NoiseRiver
Shouldn't it be up to the individual to figure it out for themselves? FF is filled with intelligent folks with common sense...
- Mona Nomura
Fortunately I haven't encountered any spammers here on FF yet. If I ever end up on someone's $#!+ list though, I hope someone tells me about it. Don't worry, my ego won't be hurt. I got a bottle in the cupboard I've been just dying to dive into anyways so I'll be ok ;-)
- Paul Short
Paul: If I drank everytime someone put me on their #$% list I'd be alcoholic. :-) Mona: of course, but I just thought it was fun that FriendFeed has a recommended list, which is really a popularity thing, but doesn't tell you the other end of the scale, those people who got blocked a lot.
- Robert Scoble
@scobleizer: We once discussed about popularity and interests. I created a way to see who's intersting for you on FriendFeed. I humbly think that it's the way things should work :)
- directeur
from NoiseRiver
I know... but in high school I made a lot of people feel crappy and vice versa. This is the internet, but e-feelings DO matter, don't they? i mean I don't have 16k + followers but imagine how you would feel if you were put up on that list... Those people are black listed for a reason and if anything, it'd fuel their negative attention whoring even more, no?
- Mona Nomura
This goes against the entire spirit of social networks.. Hope none of the social networks do this.
- Muthu Ramadoss
Robert, just like HR departments can't say anything negative about former employees without risking liability, maybe it wouldn't be right for FF to formally blacklist people.
- Sprague D
I don't understand how this goes against social media. Social media is all about using society to circulate, comment, and recommend media. Noting things that the majority doesn't like should be part of that.
- xero
Sprague, Muthu, and Mona: you're right. It's a bad idea. It would actually reinforce negative behaviors, too. Sorry. Sometimes my thoughts aren't good. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Though, it could be easily abused... Better ignored than actively blocked.
- xero
I'm guessing because they don't want to be sued.
- Morton Fox
I'm with@muthu - one of the things I love about FF is that it lets people tailor the experience for themselves. I would leave if they began instituting some kind of official recommendations on who to block and who not to block
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Don't stop thinking out loud, though.
- Chris Baskind
Just like in society, you can pick and choose who you want to interact with..... "hide" or "block" are two extremely useful features!
- Mona Nomura
Robert: FF is the only place i've ever been able to have civil discussion on the internet haha. Regardless of if I agree or disagree, I think it's great you just say whatever is on your mind.... I guess that's why you're.. what was that word? A Technical Evangelist... HA
- Mona Nomura
it would just cause a person to create a new account the moment they got the hint of mass blocking. I would say it should be a third party gem.
- InsaneNinja
from fftogo
After thinking about this, an *unpopularity* list may not be such a good idea. Personally, I still follow and read people here and on other services that the community at large have declared to be trolls, unpopular, or whatever. I still find their stuff interesting, in a slowing-down-to-see-the-wreck sort of way. "One mans garbage is another mans gold... and all that. But that's just me...
- Paul Short
Why does it recommend people but not say why they are recommended. Just because someone is an A list blogger, doesn't mean they blog about stuff you are interested in. Why not do it like Google reader and recommend people based on what they blog about (ie. photos, tech, politics, etc)
- CJPhoto
Scoble, how do you know a person is blocked by other people? (I gotta say, I generally don't have that problem though, as I first read a person's stream before making a decision.)
- Vincent van Wylick
The last thing I'd want is new users assuming that the admins of FriendFeed are personally deciding who's worthy and who isn't around here. The only way it would work is if FriendFeed was completely transparent with the metrics used to determine who is on the Yea list and who is on the Nay list. Even then, I still think it's a bad idea: new users should be allowed to discover things for themselves without preconception. Remember, let each user shape the noise.
- Akiva Moskovitz
sounds like FF karma
- Robyn Miller
I thinking following and blocking are something each individual needs to sort through. I have followed, unfollowed, and then re-followed a few people who irritated me with some comments, or just began a spammy incoherent noise fest. Other I just grew weary of hearing the same strident message on a daily basis.
- Michael VanDervort
from twhirl
Ah, so if the A-List is dead, then we need to get working on the Z-list to preserve our need for hierarchy.
- Michael Markman
Isn't the recommended list just a list of people who appear most often on the friend lists of your current friends? What would the not recommended list be - a list people that aren't on the friend list of any of your friends? A bit too xenophobic perhaps?
- Brian Sullivan
something against newbies? the most blocking-worth people on FF are some of the so-called blogstars, imho.
- Davide Tarasconi
from twhirl
Might as well add a "karma/digg" system to Friendfeed users. Then we can battle each-other RPG style. Pissed someone off? -1 point.
- Czar
We'll need something eventually. The spammers are going to start spamming friend requests soon enough. I've already had to deal with spam on twitter, and I have very few people I'm following.
- Mr. Gunn
A New Friend - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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waiting 24 more hours for the drives to put IN the drobo, is geeky torture...
- InsaneNinja
from fftogo
Drobo Demo Video Hosted by Cali Lewis - http://youtube.com/watch...
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Mike Reynolds, Frederick Johnson, Paul Gilbert and Andrew Smith liked this
If she can use it... anyone can, lol
- Xavier Donat
I love my drobos.
- Thomas Hawk
Oh I bet you do Thomas! That's my next buy.
- Xavier Donat
Yeah I got one here for my edit suite. It is nice, but a little quirky with Apple Time Machine.
- Drew Lucas
My Drobo had some initial trouble (wouldn't boot the second time I tried to bring it up), but it's been solid since then. Slow as hell, mind you, but you've gotta give up some speed for a USB data archive.
- Roger Benningfield
Man, I can't turn around without hearing how great drobo is. It is making it really hard to not get one.
- Andy Roth
@Andy Roth hahaha same here, drobo it THE buzz right now.
- Xavier Donat
The price has dropped at amazon.com. I haven't yet received mine, and still filed for the price-difference refund
- InsaneNinja
Still looking for drobos? :-)
- Carol Linden
Oh YES I still want / need one for sure.
- Xavier Donat
Drobo Fully Automated SATA Robotic Storage Array 4 Bay USB 2.0 - http://www.amazon.com/dp...
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Akiva Moskovitz, JA Castillo, Kenneth Verburg and Kevin Tunis liked this
I love my drobo. It's a great way to get replicated storage for your photos.
- Thomas Hawk
...if money were only plentiful...and the bank of wife were open.
- JA Castillo
My former boss (and colleague) invented the Drobo. Still waiting for the friends and family discount.
- Louis Gray
is it worth the cost? Here in the UK they are about $600 :(
- Adrian
is it worth waiting for the next generation version? USB3 will be out early 2009 and i cant picture them waiting too long.
- InsaneNinja
finally purchased one, 3 days later the price dropped
- InsaneNinja
Early adopter insanity? - http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...
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Dobromir Hadzhiev, Joe Dawson, Franklin Pettit and 26 other people liked this
I've got the same thing in my inbox! :) Even most of the same folks! :D
- Chrimmus Tad
Couldn't resist. There's more. It's nuts!
- Charlie Anzman
LOL. I signed up with OpenID and somehow have not been getting emails.
- Hao Chen
Getting them in less than 10 seconds at an incredible pace ... Thank you Marshall K (and TechMeMe ?)
- Charlie Anzman
lol same here! :D
- Corvida
Yeah, it just needed corvida to reply to me & all of a sudden I get tonnes of alerts. Thanks corvida! ;)
- Glenn Slaven
makes my post earlier right on the mark eh :) http://www.winextra.com/2008...
- Steven Hodson
me tooo!! OMG I am trying to ignore those as I am working...hehehe!
- Susan Beebe
Steven - In this case, you're right. You can't turn it off
- Charlie Anzman
Is it worth starting your "friend" list again?? Will the people who care what you're doing even follow you to *another* site? Since there's no direct feed to FF, is it even worth being an early adopter on this site?
- David Cook
David - Let me be crystal clear here. Friendfeed is my 'communication home' ... period. No ifs, ands or buts. Thought it was utterly amazing how many people jumped on a 'virtual unknown' and still are.
- Charlie Anzman
@Charlie - is it just LOL ... I joined just to secure my id cuase I do think this could have legs as long as Twitter remains having problems. If they really do a push and get things working then this will be just an interesting experiment
- Steven Hodson
Steven - Yep, looks like someone got Scoble's. Wonder if he'll get it back like he did with Plurk? :)
- Charlie Anzman
@Charlie I think you could take bets on that he will :)
- Steven Hodson
Man - Robert's getting almost as fast on the trigger finger as Louis ... Ugh ... Where is Louis ??
- Charlie Anzman
Louis is focusing on his two beautiful babies!!!!! Yeah for Louis and Kristine!! :-)
- Susan Beebe
this is what filters are for.. subject:(has-added a-friend) - those together should be auto-archived lol
- InsaneNinja
I've already set up a rule and dedicated mailbox in Mac Mail for mine :-)
- Duncan Riley
same here its a mess, and their site is already down for me
- shoemoney
2nd sign of FriendFeed addiction: you go to a new FF app and you can add your FF key without assistance (from memory).
Czar, Lyndon Washington, ben barren and 8 other people liked this
Agreed, but what I want to know is what's wrong with passwords all of a sudden?
- Toby Graham
@Toby Nothing. With the keys it seems you are password-protecting your password.
- Jeduan Cornejo
@Toby - Far too many people use the same passwords everywhere... and you can always reset your key without remembering a new login.
- InsaneNinja
the key is a form of 2 factor authentication for api utilization
- mike "glemak" dunn
That all makes sense, I do use the same password everywhere.
- Toby Graham
@Toby i try to memorize four 8char passwords (takes a week of repeatedly re-typing each one).. with one as my "generic" password for junk sites. And the best way to memorize a new password is to NOT click "remember password" for a few days.
- InsaneNinja
this is true. i can almost remember mine its got a really out there syntax, as if theres some divine order or geek making fun of me in the google oops friendfeedplex!
- ben barren
The Life Changing Box - http://www.lifechangingbox.com/
Ken Stewart | ChangeForge, Mark Sanders, Brian and 19 other people liked this
what the frak is in the damn box?!?!?! this thing is driving me insane.
- Veronica
Well, having watched the animation of the box putting itself together... um... it's empty. Next question.
- Ken Sheppardson
i got a green for "bat"
- Hao Chen
apparently you can win prizes like TVs and trips. I don't know... I got frustrated.
- Veronica
and energy
- Hao Chen
sun
- Hao Chen
water
- Hao Chen
clean
- Hao Chen
i see a theme, i think.
- Hao Chen
Window!
- Hao Chen
hmmm, Aunt Edith's fruitcake from last christmas? (ducking)
- Harry Myhre
ok someone do a dictionary attack
- Hao Chen
also working: red, blue, light, tree, planet
- Veronica
Holy shit, my first thought before reading the other comments was that it might be a free energy device... Typed 'energy', it worked. Solar, power, and environment then worked too. We're getting somewhere.
- Vincent X
if this is an ad for BP I'm going to be pissed.
- Veronica
Al Gore also works. I'm not kidding.
- Leo Laporte
+1 Leo
- Hao Chen
oh my god, you're right. what the hell? however, there is no "truth" in the box.
- Veronica
somehow with all that, hippies aren't in the box.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
But Bush, Obama, Clinton, and McCain do not work. Nor does Prius or Hybrid.
- Leo Laporte
TV works. Uh oh. Film, too.
- Leo Laporte
technology gives an interesting response
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
wow, technology DID give a response I haven't seen yet...
- Veronica
I tried all the TV networks (including PBS) none of them worked - but "online video" worked
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
also TV Show is a unique response as well.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Global warming worked.
- Vincent X
Light, Tree, Ecosystem, Planet, Earth, Water, sun, solar, solar panel, recycle all work
- Phil G
It's a Segway.
- Alex Williams
future works
- Bruce Turner
play made the box dissappear for a bit.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
oh, it's gotta be a game show! so, it's an online video show about global warming/the environment / renewable resources that could possibly also be a game show. hmmm...
- Veronica
sports
- Grant
play, bat, sports - theme
- Hao Chen
If I had to guess, it's a promo hype builder for an eco-related channel. That's my prediction.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
game works
- Bruce Turner
Uh-oh. Type 'Sharp Aquos'. (someone mentioned that on Digg) It better not be a new TV. Ooooh, just found out that Sharp are developping solar power generation systems. Hmmm. http://sharp-world.com/solar/
- Vincent X
It's Schrodingers Cat
- Mike Martin
Now I'm pretty sure it's Sharp-related. http://1080pd82.ca/
- Vincent X
mlb works, sharp is the official tv of mlb
- Grant
OK I'm bored now. New meme please.
- Leo Laporte
We Green bloggers are getting all sorts of nagging pitches on this.
- Chris Baskind
lcd and high def work. definitely a new tv from sharp
- Grant
You called it, Vincent. Sharp keywords seem to do the best.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
yeah, baseball works
- Bruce Turner
as do tv and television
- Bruce Turner
HAH! I looked up domain name records, the domain name was registered by an advertising agency called Lowe Worldwide. Then did some research, and found this in a 2007 press release: "Sharp Electronics Corp. is close to shifting the global advertising account for Aquos LCD TVs to Interpublic Group of Cos.' Lowe Worldwide, New York, from independent Wieden & Kennedy, according to executives familiar with the situation."
- Vincent X
somehow I feel a little let down. my life is pretty much the same now.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
i was hoping it would be something more exciting
- Grant
Oh no, change worked...the box is going to assimilate us 8(
- Sean Dunn
Probably sponsored by obama :)
- Grant
one last word - it's funny. Pornography
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
There's a huge risk to playing this viral marketing game. Piss off the players and you're toast.
- Leo Laporte
Same here, Grant. I still have hopes though that it could be a free energy device invented by Al Gore and produced in partnership with Sharp Electronics that will change the course of history, end our dependency on non-renewable fuels, cure cancer and bring about a new golden age for humankind.
- Vincent X
I put "air" and it turned into a glowing ball. WTF?
- shaun mclane
HD and high definition give a response. Vincent X FTW, btw.
- Bruce Turner
Wow, great find Donato!
- Vincent X
I gave up and handed over my e-mail address.
- Jonathon
run made the box take off as well
- Marc Vermut
from twhirl
so each category prompts a different response...and now the fun is gone and it doesn't really reward the user
- Marc Vermut
from twhirl
Veronica, how did you find this? And isn't it amazing how quickly the community took it apart?
- Marc Vermut
from twhirl
The domain is registered to Lowe Worldwide, an agency specializing in creative development. Their clients include Saab, Unilever, Johnson & Johnson, Nokia, GMC and others. I couldn't find Apple on any of the lists so I'll throw my 2 cents and say that this is Nokia related, the iPhone 3G wannabe killer.
- Mirko
ahhh good call on the code! now we have all the words! it's gotta be for the TVs.
- Veronica
movies, music, video.. etc.. anything around media
- InsaneNinja
That was fun while it lasted. Crowd-sourcing at its best.
- Brian
strip for June / 26 / 2008 - http://www.reallifecomics.com/archive...
oh yes.. sooo true
- InsaneNinja
Recommend some good photography podcasts. I am growing fond of TWIP and PhotoNetCast and want some more.
Mitchell Tsai, Kevin Johnson, Lisa L. Seifert and 14 other people liked this
The conversation on cnet's "indecent exposure" photo podcast is a little dry, but its also new. They dont quite have as much fun as buzzoutloud yet. And TPN - The digital photography show is making a comeback, after being down for a month or so.
- InsaneNinja
@InsaneNinja Thanks. For everyone else, here are the links. Indecent Exposure: http://reviews.cnet.com/indecen... and TPN: http://digiphoto.thepodcastnetwork.com
- Michael Hocter
I have just gone looking (briefly) for photography podcasts and settled on the two you are tired of. (I haven't checked them out yet.) I'd be interested to see what you think of the new ones.
- J. McConnell
from fftogo
I'm not tired of any. TWIP and PhotoNetCast are very good.
- Michael Hocter
Ahh, good to hear. Sorry, I misread "growing fond" as "growing tired". I think I'm the one growing tired. Time for bed.
- J. McConnell
from fftogo
@J, I'll let you know what I think of the new ones after I've listened for a while.
- Michael Hocter
found another one... but its microsoft sponsored, dont expect it on itunes... http://on10.net/blogs...
- InsaneNinja
Here are tons more: http://digital-photography-school.com/blog...
- Michael Hocter
There's a new one coming to FastCompanyTV by the end of the month that'll be pretty good. Called PhotoCycle.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, looking forward to that one.
- Michael Hocter
I love TWIP, except for the laughing/private joke intervals, but maybe this is only because I'm French and don't get it all!
- Guillaume Lemoine
PhotoCycle is now up at http://www.fastcompany.tv/photocy...
- Robert Scoble
I like the Lightroom podcast by George Jardine. It's not only Lightroom focused, but often has general interviews with photographers. http://rss.adobe.com/www... or search "Lightroom" in iTunes Music Store.
- Eugene Huo
Are there any photography podcasts in video format online anywhere? There should be more that are readily visible and easy to find.
- Roney Smith
PhotoCycle is video and some of the stuff that This Week In Photography is in video.
- Robert Scoble
I'm subscribed to Tips From The Top Floor.
- Andre Heinrichs
You heard it here on FriendFeed first: Announcing SmugVault - Store everything for next to nothing. - http://blogs.smugmug.com/don...
Nikpay, J.D. Deutschendorf, denise and 76 other people liked this
This is brilliant! I've been waiting for a service exactly like this.
- Chris Nixon
had a feeling this is what the announcement was when I noticed a SmugVault entry in the gallery drop down. Think I need to see which is cheaper to do direct S3 storage or using this.
- dbcohen
So, anything? If I wanted to run my DMG archive off of Smug Vault, I'd be okay?
- Mark Trapp
@Dave Cohen: S3 is cheaper (not much!), but you lose the integration and visual browsing interface of SmugMug. We're certainly not an S3 competitor here. If S3 works for you, awesome. :)
- Don MacAskill
Awesome Don, nice one! Let's make a loud sound with this one!
- Larry Kless
from twhirl
@Mark Trapp: Yep, anything, including DMG or whatever. Currently it's 512MB/file max, but I'm working on making it 5GB per file.
- Don MacAskill
Been waiting for something like this ever since I started shooting RAW!
- Benjamin Golub
Awesome, thanks Don. This could be nifty for my design firm's off-site archive, especially if we can preview the good bulk of the files.
- Mark Trapp
Argh! I just starting shooting RAW!! Must have!!!
- Bwana ☠
hmmmm... store *everything*, next to *nothing*. Not sure I agree with that. Under this new service my 2TB archive would cost me $600 one time fee + $440 every single month, plus more for getting the images back. Seems like a few drobos are a better deal, no? I can't imagine paying over $5,000 a year for offsite storage. Of course this sort of service is probably not aimed at someone like me.
- Thomas Hawk
@Thomas Hawk: Compared to competing photo sharing services with RAW support, and other pay-for-storage-in-the-cloud offerings, this is a very compelling price point. It's certainly not as cheap as a handful of Drobos - but then you have to do all the IT, deal with fire/earthquakes/etc. If you're cool with that, great. But many aren't.
- Don MacAskill
@Thomas Hawk: There are two components for any really solid archive storage: Local, fast, always available storage and something offsite. That can be drives stored at a bank, tapes at an archival facility, or something like SmugVault. We view ourselves as the offsite component, not the replacement for the RAID at your house.
- Don MacAskill
@Don, I'm just saying $600 upfront and $440 per month in my case certainly would not qualify as storing "everything for next to nothing." It would cost me more per month to store my archive than to lease a car. And my archive is only going to get bigger.
- Thomas Hawk
Can I get access outwith the web interface? e.g. ftp or sync software
- Chris Nixon
Already climbing the charts of rssmeme: http://www.rssmeme.com/story...
- Benjamin Golub
I don't think storage in the cloud is yet economical for most heavy photographers. Even someone with only 500GB of images would still have to pay $110 per month which is an expensive cost. Better (and faster) to back up your images yourself on drives and give them to a friend to hold for you offsite. You can also remotely network drobos now to have one at your home, one at an offsite location and sync them for much, much, less money.
- Thomas Hawk
I don't get why I'd use this over my $5/m Mozy account?
- Phill Price
@Thomas Hawk: Remotely networking drobos? Makes me want to get them even more... Wish they weren't so expensive! @Phill Price: Yeah, I don't see how SmugMug's service beats the pants off of Mozy, except that I don't think Mozy has a Web-based file browser. Am I wrong about that?
- Voyagerfan5761
@Thomas Hawk: We have Pros who charge $10-20K for a single wedding that generates a few GB of photos. This is very economical for money-making Pros. And we have tens of thousands of them. :)
- Don MacAskill
I haven't remotely networked drobo's yet but Alex Lindesy said that he's doing this with his on the This Week in Photography (TWIP) podcast. Synching two drobos would not be cheap Voyagerfan, but certainly cheaper than paying $440 per month. I do have my archive backed up on cheap external USB drives though and offsite at my parent's house. Most of my finished JPG photos are online as well on photosharing sites which are sort of a secondary backup.
- Thomas Hawk
@Voyagerfan5761 it does - and its automatic
- Phill Price
@Phill Price: This offering is geared towards people for whom SmugMug is a vital part of their workflow. They've told us they want the archives stored alongside the photos, so their normal workflow is enhanced rather than disrupted. Absolutely using something like Mozy or S3 or whatever is cheaper - but for some, time and/or effort is more valuable than money. SmugMug isn't in the business of being the cheapest solution for anything we offer - we're a premium service.
- Don MacAskill
The other thing I don't like about this service is that it has a built in cost increase. The more you shoot the more you store, the more you store, the more you pay ongoing. You pay *more* in the future not less, even though storage gets cheaper. I'd rather have an "all you can eat" sort of plan that controlled future price increases. Still, for the casual photographer with less than 50GB of files, this might be worth looking at. Although even 50GB is $22 a month, a far cry from "next to nothing."
- Thomas Hawk
@Thomas Hawk: Actually, that's not true. As Amazon lowers their prices (which they've done twice in two years already, and I expect another one "soon"), we'll lower ours the corresponding amount. Your storage will get cheaper.
- Don MacAskill
@Thomas Hawk: While I appreciate the feedback, you're not really comparing apples to apples here. Go find me a photo sharing site that accepts and stores RAW/PSD/etc for less than ours as part of their workflow. We will *definitely* not be as cheap as local storage, that's a given. The question is how we compare to other similar offerings. And in that regard, we're much cheaper and (more importantly) much better.
- Don MacAskill
Bear in mind that this is an offering our customers have been *begging* for at a price point *lower* than they said they'd pay. My customers are likely very different from you - but that doesn't mean it's not a valid, useful, game-changing offering.
- Don MacAskill
@Don, I might not be comparing apples to apples, but I'd still never pay $440 a month for a service like this. The "store everything for next to nothing," was the part I thought was a bit misleading. The service is actually quite a bit more expensive than someone simply copying their files to an external drive and giving it to a friend to hold offsite for them, without reoccuring monthly fees.
- Thomas Hawk
saying the Oakland Mercedes Benz dealer is cheaper than the Beverly Hills Mercedes Benz dealer doesn't mean that you still can't find a cheaper car somewhere else -- or take the bus or bike for that matter. You get to the same place no matter if you drive a Mercedes, a Prius, take BART or bike. Some ways just cost more than others.
- Thomas Hawk
I am a pro photographer. I shoot less than ThomasHawk but have my fair share of events. I would like to just see a storage through online means regardless of file type such as Xdrive. But at larger increments such as 1GB at a time not 1MB. Any thoughts Don?
- Photo Larry
from twhirl
"next to nothing" refers to some of our (to remain unnamed) competitors. And it jives with what our paying customers have told us they'd pay for this service. We could have gouged them and charged the $1/GB or whatever they said they'd pay (or that they pay elsewhere now) - but we chose not to. Apologies if it doesn't fit your world view. :)
- Don MacAskill
Yes, but the Oakland Benz dealer will sell you the same Benz that Beverly Hills will. A Drobo and SmugVault aren't even remotely the same. So again, you're comparing apples to apples in your analogy, but not the actual product comparison. It's fine, I get it - you won't use it. But that doesn't mean it's not a good product.
- Don MacAskill
@Photo Larry: You can store 1MB, 1GB, 1PB with this. Whatever you want. So you're not limited to 1MB. If I somehow gave that impression, I apologize. SmugVault is unlimited and pay-by-the-drink. Only pay for what you use - no commitments.
- Don MacAskill
Don, I'm an edge case. I'm sure this offering is just right for many of your customers. Some people like to drive Mercedes and don't mind paying -- it's a huge market. I just like to take the BART, that way it costs less and I can process photos to and from work. :)
- Thomas Hawk
This may be the clincher for me. I've been thinking about using SmugMug for a while. They already allow users to sell photos -- which is something I've wanted from other photo sharing sites for a while -- they offer good prints as well, and now they have this. Very nice.
- Raoul Pop
@Thomas Hawk: Everything we do at SmugMug is more BMW than Toyota, let alone BART, that's for sure. :)
- Don MacAskill
Having read the blog post, I can see the potential of it. Never mind the price, which is way too high for my taste at the moment (and Thomas is right to criticize your headline). But prices will come down. I like the concept of having a photo library somewhere up in the cloud that contains all master files "behind" the one final image on display. With a good UI and a Photoshop plugin that allowed direct editing from and saving to the cloud, this could completely replace apps like Lightroom in the future.
- Ole Begemann
Don: Wow. I like this thread esp. for the comments. I withdraw my request for a smugmug invite. That is a pretty elitist view of things. I will just wait until I fill my free off-site storage and then pay an "economy" photo hosting service.
- Mathew A. Koeneker
This just hit TechMeme http://tinyurl.com/6sxlsp Hey Gabe Rivera - how about including this thread on TechMeme?
- Mike Doeff
mike it hit because i linked to don :)
- Allen Stern
Brilliant! I love betting on the right horse. You go Smugmug!
- Leo Laporte
It would be awesome if Techmeme could include FF conversations! Seems like a natural fit, but the problem would be how could Techmeme know *which* of the conversations to append to the article. Sometimes the biggest conversation around an item will happen in the oddest place. Hard for Techmeme to know which is *officially* the related or best conversation.
- Thomas Hawk
I'm assuming you have to have a SmugMug account to use this in the first place? For someone like me with about 10GB of archives, the price would be good, but having to pay to join another photo site just for backup would deter me.
- Matt
Allen, Gabe recently mentioned that he was starting to look at FriendFeed as another source for discussion (see http://snurl.com/2nnk6 - Gabe's last comment). I think this is a case where it would make sense for Gabe's algorithm to include this in the discussion.
- Mike Doeff
@Thomas - here's one approach to your question about how Techmeme would "know" which conversations were best: http://bhc3.wordpress.com/2008...
- Hutch Carpenter
@Mathew A. Koeneker: SmugMug invite? We don't require invites. We've been in production for more than 5 years - no invites required. Just a credit card. :) I'm not sure how I (we?) are being elitist, though - we're offering something both better and cheaper than anyone else. How is that elitist? Am I missing something?
- Don MacAskill
@Matt: You do need a SmugMug account, yes. They start at $40/year (unlimited JPEG/GIF/PNG storage), or roughly a latte a month. :)
- Don MacAskill
Is anyone else not surprised that Thomas Hawk is trying to crap on a thread about a competitor's product? A quick browse on his blog shows crapping on competition all over the place, while his own pet project flounders in obscurity.
- Jim
Hutch, great blog post, interesting method -- using activity by authoritative FF folk to determine which post to link right? Would love to see FF conversations on Techmeme as they definitely provide valuable commentary on the story.
- Thomas Hawk
@Don, I sent a Tweet about this about two hours ago but never got a chance to get back gere until now. Looks like a lot great discussion has been going on.
- Larry Kless
from twhirl
Jim, I don't view SmugMug as a competing product *at all.* I doubt Don does either, but maybe I'm wrong. Two very different markets and services. I actually like SmugMug as an service alot, and especially the people that work there, their high service and community engagement. I just wouldn't pay $440 a month for something like this. I call it like I see it. BART is not a competitor to BMW, even though both get you where you want to go.
- Thomas Hawk
@ Don: I was being a tad ironic as well as perhaps I misunderstood the post "@Thomas Hawk: Everything we do at SmugMug is more BMW than Toyota, let alone BART, that's for sure. :) - Don MacAskill" I like being frugal and wish that we had better public transportation in StL. I am OK if that is your target demographic (ie. BMW) but it seemed like a slam on those that are not.
- Mathew A. Koeneker
@Thomas - and yet you keep arguing a red herring. There is a huge difference between local storage and off-site storage. In order to replicate the security of storage in the clouds, you have to set up multiple synced off-site storage locations. There is a reason that lot of top photographers store their photos in banks and other secure vaults.
- Jim
@Thomas - that's right. Techmeme has a heavy bias for those who have been on Techmeme previously. Leverage that to identify conversational hot points.
- Hutch Carpenter
@Thomas - a perfect example is world famous photographer Jacques Lowe who stored 40,000 negatives of the Kennedy family in the safest location he could find. He stored them in a bank vault, and 11 years later they were all completely destroyed when 2 planes hit the World Trade Center, right next door. Off-site + redundancy is extremely important to a lot of photographers.
- Jim
Jim, I'm not arguing a red herring at all. $440 per month to store my archive is *not* "next to nothing." It's a perfectly valid point to make in light of the headline of the post. The fact that I can archive cheaper other ways is another point entirely -- but worth mentioning given that people might be looking for other cheaper alternatives. Maybe $440 per month is "next to nothing" for a rich guy like you, but it's not for me. Do you work for SmugMug?
- Thomas Hawk
@Mathew A. Koeneker: Oh, no, that wasn't a slam at all. I have a BMW, but I love BART too. But when we chose to build a business, we intentionally chose the premium space. Not only am I more interested in it, but the free / freemium / economy space is crowded and a rough business to be in. I built this business with an awful lot of sweat - I didn't want to get into a brawl with companies like Yahoo and Kodak, too.
- Don MacAskill
@Thomas - sorry, I was referring the ongoing Drobo discussion. Sticking right to the cost, I guess it is a matter of perspective. You are a prolific shooter, and have a sizable collection, so it will indeed cost you more. The question is how much the absolute security of those files are to you. It varies dramatically from photographer to photographer. For hobbyists with a big collection, I suppose the price would be a bigger deal. (continued, sorry... got too wordy)
- Jim
@Thomas - but imagine you are make your living from your photos, and you can virtually guarantee the safety of your life's work for $440 a month. I am definitely a hobbyist, but there are definitely some files I want to make 100% sure I never lose. So I am probably somewhere in between, and part of my library will find its way online.
- Jim
@Jim, $440 a month is *alot* of money Pal. Certainly not "next to nothing." You could by three drobos. Stick one at your mom's house in Florida and give another to your friend in Germany and network them all together -- and this would still be cheaper than buying this service, at least for me. I'm not sure the incremental "safety" of cloud storage over multiple location backups is worth it to me.
- Thomas Hawk
and you still haven't answered the question whether or not you work for SmugMug. You have a private FF account and are only known as "Jim." As far as I'm concerned you may as well be an anonymous shill.
- Thomas Hawk
Nice idea, but I'm not sold on the idea of cloud storage. Having multiple physical backups in different locations is very cost effective these days, and in the event of a catastrophic failure, restoring from the cloud is a time-consuming prospect. If you have enough data, shipping one of your other backups would be cheaper -- and faster -- than restoring TB's of data from the cloud.
- Jeremy Brooks
is it insured?
- Noah David Simon
I might as well be an anonymous shill, I am not a blogging/social sort of person. I registered just to post in this thread because your attitude bugs me. I used to subscribe to your blog because I love your photography, but got sick of your ranting and raving about everything. Unfortunately, I have now contributed to the crapfest this thread is... I'm out.
- Jim
I think the main thing going for a service like this is the simplicity of it, which may be worth the cost for some people.
- Jeremy Brooks
By the way, I'm not saying that this is a *bad* service. I'm sure that there are many customers at SmugMug who want this and at this price point. Otherwise they wouldn't be offering it. And I'm sure it's a good business for SmugMug as they probably make a differential between what they pay Amazon and what they charge their customers. Win-Win. I'm just saying it's not right for me is all.
- Thomas Hawk
I'm with Thomas here. All he took exception to was the headline "for next to nothing" and he's right on that.
- Ole Begemann
So Jim, you are posting here anonymously and only signed up for FF to post to *this specific* conversation about SmugMug, and yet you've been asked three times whether or not you work for SmugMug and you avoid answering the question every time. Okie dokie Pal, gotcha loud and clear. I'm sorry if my saying $440 per month doesn't sound like "next to nothing" to me hurts your feelings.
- Thomas Hawk
okay, I lied... I didn't quite leave yet. :( I am not from SmugMug. I just don't want to get into personal details, I am a private person. really out now, just didn't want to leave that hanging.
- Jim
...and this is pretty much what I was afraid would happen to FriendFeed eventually. I was just hoping for a bit more time. @Don, good luck on the launch. I always love to see other small businesses succeed, so I hope you guys make a bajillion dollars.
- jakebf
@Thomas, for the record, Don is subscribed to the feeds of all SmugMug employees that have FF accounts.
- David Parry
Personally, i travel like crazy for work. So having a drobo at home would be like cloud storage, but slower. I just wish this wasn't announced 2 days after i bought the program jungledisk for direct amazon storage.
- InsaneNinja
Wow, I go get some lunch and the thread devolves into trolling. Can has moderation? Let's get back to talking about the product, mmkay?
- Don MacAskill
@Don, Say you run Lightroom, and convert to DNG on import. You do your little changes to the DNG, which saves them as internal data. And then you upload the DNG file to SmugMug. ....Does SM show the resulting file in multiple sizes? Or should you also upload an LR-exported jpg for results/quality? I'm asking if you can skip the jpg step entirely.
- InsaneNinja
@InsaneNinja: You cannot skip the JPEG step entirely if you want to see all your edits, no. We just generate non-edited proofs. I'm hopeful that someday we can offer something even better, but for now, export both the JPEG and the DNG.
- Don MacAskill
And I envision a Lightroom like interface to the vault so you can browse and search the vault like you would your local albums, select the photo(s) you want to work on and put your work back when you're done, somewhere safe. Which I'm giddy about to build, you know, when they invent 30hr days.... Also, for me this is going to be for the images that are very valuable to me either emotionally or monitarily, not everything, which solves the 'where will my important photos be in 15 years' problem.
- Sam
@Don: That makes sound business sense on a lot of levels. )BTW, I think that this is the first time I saw what would appear to be troll induced flickers of flame.)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
I wouldnt say its trolling on the program, as much as it is Thomas having a problem specifically with the slogan "everything for nothing," due to his immense collection. As for me personally, i've created 30 gigs this month and i consider it slacking.
- InsaneNinja
Well, if nothing else this string has forced me to think more seriously about improving my current backup solution of copying to an external hard drive.
- Matt
Oh, I wasn't referring to Thomas. ;)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
Two questions: One, how on earth is uploading my entire archive going to happen ( I've got 50+ GB and rising fast- my upload speed is terrible even with broadband in the UK - talk about progress and being a First World Country) and Two is there API support for this???
- Roberto Bonini
Firefox 3 To Be Released on June 17th - http://feeds.laughingsquid.com/~r...
Joe Dawson, Russell G, cbgreenwood and 20 other people liked this
I'll have to be there for download day :)
- Daniel Bruce
While in the "other" side they're saying: To plant your tree donwload Internet Explorer 7... I mean, what? Tree? http://www.microsoft.com/windows...
- directeur
Loving Firefox 3 beta... can't wait till we get full version! yeah! Need my Greasemonkey scripts el prontooooooooo!
- Susan Beebe
Darn, if they would release it just 1 day sooner, it could be my b'day present. Ah well, I guess my daughter is getting FF3 for her bday...LOL
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
When will a few of my plugins/add-on's start working on 3, is the real question!
- Sumit Chachra
@susanbebbe Greasemonkey works just fine if you get the "beta" version.. as does delicious
- InsaneNinja
plz come to ff3 launch party. a bunch of us are hosting.
- paulm
if only my add-ons worked. I'd be jumping right in.
- clarke thomas
Let's hope Google gets a new Toolbar out in time...
- Simon Bisson
from Alert Thingy
3G iPhone - Should You Wait 60 Days For A Price Cut? - http://www.lockergnome.com/blade...
Not about the price cut, about more features. Besides, the original is sold out, so you'll have to wait if you want a new iPhone
- Pat Hawks
Pat, I think Ron's thought was about not July 11th, but September 11th: is Apple going to slash the price again in September, like it did last year?
- Mark Trapp
If Apple does that again, AFTER they had to issue a rebate before, that'd be super foolish.
- Bwana ☠
they should slash the $10 per month additional charge for upgrading if they cared about their early adopters.
- Thomas Hawk
Sorry. Shouldn't judge a blog by it's cover... er, title.
- Pat Hawks
The macbooks are coming out with aluminum bodies soon.. The Touch hasnt been changed, and i've already heard rumors of a september iPod upgrade. I submit the rumor that the 32GB iPhone and 64GB Touch will be released in Fall. (Back-To-School upgrades)
- InsaneNinja
Rather than a price cut I see a new pro model with front facing camera and other things that were rumored but didn't make the cut this time.
- gfurry
Scoble's stats from FriendFeed
Joe Dawson, donato, Andrew Smith and 21 other people liked this
Here are my stats as of 4 a.m. on May 30th, 2008. OK, why are Mitchell Tsai and Susan Beebe stalking me? Just kidding, thanks for the love! s
- Robert Scoble
Do you ever sleep? =)
- Craig Eddy
I love this http://mail2ff.com/ which is how I got the stats here. No, I don't sleep, at least not with a teething baby and a deadline for Fast Company magazine. Sigh. Truth is I'm addicted to this stuff.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks for the mail2ff link...I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out how you got that here.
- Craig Eddy
Soo.... how many people are following you on FriendFeed?
- Orli Yakuel
11,556 are subscribed to me and I'm subscribed to 2,625. That's WAY faster growth than I saw on either Twitter or Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
I wonder why this data is not open to the public. (and Wow!)
- Orli Yakuel
They need a time active clock on there to see how addicted you really are!
- Joe Dawson
Probably because it encourages contests which turn services really lame.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I see your point, but never felt this way on Twitter. I actually always thought it's an interesting piece of data.
- Orli Yakuel
Scoble: Start posting boring stuff. Then I won't have anything to "like". :-)
- Mitchell Tsai
Totally honored to be on your "People you find interesting" list. I'm pretty sure you are at the top of mine for people I find interesting.
- Andrew Dobrow
People aready think that I am a freak! But what are you then?? *lol*...via feedalizr
- Dieter Schwarz
how does FriendFeed scale at that level Robert from a usability perspective? I can only imagine the feeds of 2,600 people being a nightmare to keep up with
- Jamie
Jamie: it's easier to keep up with that level here than over on Twitter. Why? Most of those people aren't using FriendFeed to be interactive with, yet, but are just using it as an aggregator. look at how Mike Arrington is using it, for instance, he's only left three comments here total. Ever. So he's very easy to keep up with.
- Robert Scoble
I think there could be some sort of filters he is using to find just what he needs in middle of all that information flow? Or am I right, Scoble?
- Daniel Schildt
@Robert you are on it here though, even in the advanced search when you click on one user it comes back with - a nickname, like "scobleizer"
- Joe Dawson
so gald you posted your stats robert. i did that yesterday afternoon at the suggestion of josef robey. it's very enlightening and i think FF should make it possible to make your stats public right in the service instead of having to screenshot them and repost.
- Fred Wilson
i've now seen three of these, yours, mine, and josef's and they all are very similar with twitter being about half of the content, then blog and google reader. everything else seems to be pretty minimal except for people like me who are very active on tumblr.
- Fred Wilson
Fred, mine as well, which is actually sort of an odd chart http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Andrew Dobrow
Seems to be tracking those that are really active on FF, rather than those that are 'truly' interested ??
- Charlie Anzman
I think they are correlative factors, Charlie. It tracks people who comment on and like things you post. The people who score high are going to be people who are more active; they're probably actively commenting on and liking a bunch of other people's posts, too.
- Mark Trapp
wow, I'm above Gillmor! *\o/* Go me! Go me!
- Bwana ☠
Robert: I made a screen shot just after Rooms so I could track the changes each month.
- Russellreno
I think Robert is one of the few people, if not the only one, who has Upcoming in his chart
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Scoble - would love to see #11-20... the top 10 is a little... typical?
- Jeremy Toeman
Oh Yeah, I am totally stalking Scoble!! LOL. Actually, I love his stuff and enjoy nearly everything he writes cuz it's techie awesomesauce everyday!
- Susan Beebe
FF3 and Vista FTW!
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Jeremy: very typical, 7 names show up on both mine and Robert's list
- jcunwired
@Shey: Linux and FF FTW! and If not Linux, OSX :)
- directeur
Josef's stats: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2144...
- Josef
btw, I didn't mention this to Fred for the people part of the chart (I have none), I did it to gauge popularity of the product/service. Will be interesting to see these charts in a year.
- Josef
Link to other people's stats http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Mitchell Tsai
Robert: upload to Flick then use the FF Bookmarklet - The chart is easier to read.
- Russellreno
lol.. i'm kind of surprised that he uses a basic default FF3 setup with almost no bookmark toolbar...(foxmarks works on FF3 again for syncing)... and even has QUICKTIME in the launch bar
- InsaneNinja
The Guessing Game Has Begun on the Next iPhone - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...
Al Stevens liked this
'But analysts say faster downloads may not be enough to touch off a new wave of consumer interest in the iPhone. “Subscribers don’t care what the radio interface of their cellular phone is,” Mr. Snyder said."'
- j1m
No, but they will care if they can watch YouTube videos better on it and also if they can film videos of their babies on it.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, nobody cares if their phone is fast.
- j1m
Telstra reckons it will be able to deliver 42mbps downloads on the iPhone here in Australia within 12 months, that has to be a selling point.
- Duncan Riley
@duncan http://www.google.com/search...
- InsaneNinja
even if not 42mbps, 7-8mbps is still a selling point. I'll be upgrading to the 3G version the day it launches and nearly every other iPhone user I've spoken to (at least in Australia) is doing the same thing. The one reason: speed
- Duncan Riley
My guess is that we are going to see a surge of 3G sales and iPhone hand-me-downs. I know I'll be replacing at least one of ours, maybe both.
- Sam Pullara
Let's hope they get rid of the ridiculous carrier tie in, release it at a sensible price and fix A2DP support so it'll stream music via bluetooth, then I might buy one...
- Andy Davies
@greggscott you'll soon get why I'm so hawkish on FriendFeed. Twitter sucks for conversations.
Mike Reynolds, Adewale Oshineye, Tanath and 19 other people liked this
Robert: No question about it. With Friendfeed's direct posting I'm spending a lot more time here. Won't be long before a lot more folks arrive methinks.
- Dion Hinchcliffe
from twhirl
I am spending much more time at and contributing more to the discussion at FriendFeed
- Rob Greenlee
Yes, it does. But I'm curious what you like about Friendfeed over Jaiku or Pownce? Actually, I think Jaiku is most like Friendfeed.
- Cheryl Jones
it sucks for in depth, threaded conversations, but don't overlook the fact that Twitter has enabled a lot of new conversations where they didn't exist before.
- Duncan Riley
from twhirl
I too would like to know why Jaiku hasn't had mass adoption, given that it has threaded conversations. Well, there is of course the problem that it is by invite only.
- Morton Fox
re: Jaiku. Maybe Google bought the wrong company?
- Thomas Hawk
Well Jaiku invites are very easy to get hold of: http://jaikuinvites.com/need-an... Would anyone who is currently on FF/Twitter be more likely to join Jaiku if it had open sign-ups? Or is there something else missing?
- Adewale Oshineye
I was on Jaiku since the very early days. I never took to it. I didn't like the UI. I didn't like the community. It also was too early back when we were all discovering Twitter and Facebook. Now the early adopters have those things all figured out and are ready to try something else along with Twitter and Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
I miss when it was simpler and all we had to follow were blogs.
- Steve Rubel
And don't you think Jaiku is much slower at picking up your twits, and not so reliable?! I think that's the reason why jaiku is not popular!
- Philippe
Although, it is an excellent place to start a conversation to continue in FF. :)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
I prefer twitter for posts, but rely on friendfeed to show them. Why post on FF alone, when you can kill two birds?
- InsaneNinja
If I remember correctly, you have to click on a "Comments" link in Jaiku to get into the conversation....on FriendFeed, you can see right away where the action is....no clicking on links. I give the advantage to FriendFeed there.
- Chris Rossini
With Twhirl, I no longer need to rey on Twitter as much. I follow a lot of people to network or keep up to date with the industry - friendfeed on twhirl does that 100 times better
- Elias Bizannes
from twhirl
Twitter is a lot like the chatter you hear at a cocktail party on the way to the bar, where FriendFeed is like stopping along the way to participate.
- jcunwired
Without a doubt. Half the time I forget to read replies on Twitter. Threaded is so much better.
- Sean Alexander
twhirl feature request - ability to increase friendfeed conversation font size
- Boris Gordon
from twhirl
I like to start the topic from Twitter; easy to text from phone. Then this becomes my FaceBook status and threads can develop in FriendFeed. This works better for low traffic posters--LLiu said his FB friends got sick of all the status updates from Twitter. BTW Gordon, Alert Thingy is more readable than Twhirl (and merges into one window).
- Mark Arend
from Alert Thingy
I tried AlertThingy, but I didn't understand the twitter part. I must have been tired last night...
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
from twhirl
AlertThingy is OK except it doesn't push old tweets/friendfeeds wth new comments to the top like twhirl does.
- Boris Gordon
from twhirl
@scoble I have an idea for a good FriendFeed article, and how it emphasizes "name share".. not fully developed yet. would like your thoughts.
- Phil G
Boris Gordon: Seems to work like that on mine
- Stephen B
from Alert Thingy
Stephen B: it might push them above other friendfeed items but not above tweets it seems.
- Boris Gordon
from twhirl
That said, I don't like the fact that there is not a bookmarklet version which allows me to add a thought without forcing me to put a link too
- Anand Sharma
I would like better filtering in FriendFeed, and the ability to sort comments, other than that, I'm happy here.
- jcunwired
Suicide clubs lure 20 thousand Russian teenagers - http://digg.com/people...
"It says at the end, that there are 10 suicide-related websites.. and about 2 thousand members at each. So i think they forgot to figure cross-membership into the count, and the fact that not every membership would be active"
- InsaneNinja
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