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Israel 5770

Israel 5770

Chronicle of events in Israel for the year 5770
David C. Cooper
Israel Muse
Israel News Portal (Israel Muse) -
David C. Cooper
Passover proof lies in Egyptian hieroglyphs | Passover Proof of the Israelites Exodus from Egypt Found in Ancient Egyptian Texts -
it's encouraging to see corroboration of our ancient narrative from neighboring cultures. ^^ - David C. Cooper
David C. Cooper
"Only Jews are forced to wait an extended period of time before being allowed through security.   Only Jews are forced to present their ID’s to the police.   Only Jews are followed and harassed by Israeli police and Muslim Wakf guards throughout the entire visit on the Mount.   Only Jews are arrested for crimes such as prayer, closing eyes, bowing down or singing." - David C. Cooper from Bookmarklet
David C. Cooper
David C. Cooper
David C. Cooper
Bob Martin
Fwd: Linguistic break through tracks the origin of human speech (via
Fwd: Linguistic break through tracks the origin of human speech (via
Thanks to David C. Cooper for posting this - Bob Martin
Bob Martin
Fwd: Barak prepares for Civil War and more VOJ 3 Tevet 5770 - (via
David C. Cooper
Bob Martin
Bob Martin
Bob Martin
David C. Cooper
The Muslims are rioting to stop the Jews from praying on the their own Temple Mount?!? If they truly believe that Islam is right and the Jews were forsaken, what are they afraid of? - David C. Cooper from Bookmarklet
Have you noticed that Americans are not rioting or killing one another over religious issues? That's how modern Western democracies are supposed to work -- strict separation of church and state. - Sean McBride
Sean, have you noticed which side is inciting a riot and which is simply trying to keep the peace enforcing the law? Which side in this conflict has a history of taking extraordinary measures to avoid unnecessary violence? Besides, where do you think America's founding fathers got the model for our constitution? FYI America is NOT a democracy. - David C. Cooper
David -- you are mired down in an ugly holy war in the Mideast, as the result of your religious fundamentalist beliefs. None for me, thanks. There are more important fish to fry. - Sean McBride
David -- after you study the intellectual history of the U.S. Constitution, including The Enlightenment, John Locke, Voltaire, Diderot, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, get back to me. Here is one starting point for the discussion: These luminaries despised religious fanaticism and theocracies, which is why they... more... - Sean McBride
Sean, your sources are so flagrantly biased they've completely abandoned the realm of reason and for insane conspiracy theory. Why don't you read something written by the founders themselves instead of biased analysis by paranoid atheists looking to justify their beliefs? I'd recommend "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine as a starting place for you. The founders were not trying to eliminate religion they were trying to escape religious persecution. - David C. Cooper
David -- I've studied in depth all the founding works of the American Republic -- apparently you haven't. Obviously you haven't read the book you just recommended -- Thomas Paine's Common Sense. Why don't you try quoting for us Thomas Paine's remarks on religion. - Sean McBride
Thomas Paine from The Age of Reason: "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church." Ring any bells, David? - Sean McBride
Thomas Paine from The Age of Reason: "Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange believe that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies." - Sean McBride
Thomas Paine from The Age of Reason: "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistant that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel." - Sean McBride
You mean like: "Every religion is good that teaches man to be good; and I know of none that instructs him to be bad. " or "I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy." It may surprise you to find that in Judaism it is a tradition to question and struggle with our scripture, a tradition which Paine obviously understood. - David C. Cooper
I made Aliyah in 2005 and visited the Temple Mount. We were forced to wait for several hours, our pictures were taken and our names logged in a book they have only for Torah observant Jews. Once on the Temple Mount, I was overcome with emotion because I've dreamed of walking up there for most of my life. I started crying and the Muslim police surrounded me, screaming at me that Jews... more... - Bob Martin
David: Thomas Paine: "My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." Clearly Paine wasn't referring to the Bible, on which he heaped contempt. He redefined religion in his terms as an expression of Enlightenment ideals. Jefferson did the same thing when he rewrote the Bible. All of this is familiar territory to students of American intellectual history. Do you think you can just breeze by those three Paine quotes just posted without acknowledging them? - Sean McBride
Thomas Paine: "We must be compelled to hold this doctrine to be false, and the old and new law called the Old and New Testament, to be impositions, fables and forgeries." - Sean McBride
Sean, You also fail to note that in The Age of Reason Paine is speaking out against the New Testament version of the Bible. Here is some more reading for you: Or how about a quote from Thomas Jefferson "happy in the restoration of the Jews, particularly to their... more... - David C. Cooper
Bob, thank you for sharing such difficult memories. Unfortunately people like Sean cannot see that their own brand of fanaticism is as dangerous to the peaceful existence of mankind as any other. - David C. Cooper
Fanaticism is a poison in the human psyche and always finds a way to manifest. Thanks for the intelligent comments. All the best... - Bob Martin
David: what is "fanatical" about presenting accurate quotes from Thomas Paine strongly criticizing the Bible and the Judeo-Christian tradition (none of which you have challenged), and in pointing out that the visionaries who founded America sought to escape the narrow-minded and fundamentalist kind of thinking which had kept the Old World mired down in vicious holy wars over religious doctrine? - Sean McBride
I can easily think of dozens of places around the world I much prefer to Jerusalem as havens of enlightened human culture, and in which I would much prefer to live (London, Rome, Paris, Stockholm, Manhattan, San Francisco, Boston/Cambridge, Seattle, Vancouver, etc.). Jerusalem seems to attract the attention predominantly of religious zealots, few of whom actually choose to live there.... more... - Sean McBride
The New York Times on today's incident: "The Israeli police chief, David Cohen, said the disturbances were precipitated by calls from right-wing Jewish activists and an Islamist group, the Islamic Movement, for their supporters to ascend the mount on Sunday. Anticipating violence, hundreds of riot police officers took up positions in and around the Old City, prompting Muslims to accuse Israel of provocation." - Sean McBride
Bob -- you managed to misrepresent my views on every point you mentioned! -- quite a performance. :) I don't hate religion -- I've spent some effort studying and learning from world religions, including Zen Buddhism and Judaism. Nor do I necessarily agree with Thomas Paine's harsh remarks about the Bible -- I was simply trying to point out that the American Founding Fathers were hostile... more... - Sean McBride
Bob -- your hostility towards Christianity ("xianity") and Islam, which you consider to be false messianic cults within the Abrahamic tradition, is motivated by your indoctrination in Judaism, right? And many Muslims and Christians feel the same way about the other two major branches of monotheism. Your post proves my point. - Sean McBride
article( staff; Braverman: Rabbis' call to go up to Temple Mount hurts the State; Jerusalem Post; October 26, 2009 "Minister for Minority Affairs, MK Avishay Braverman (Labor) said that the call by rabbis for Jews to ascend the Temple Mount hurt Israel and that the provocation is... more... - Sean McBride
All those cities you named where you'd prefer to live will eventually be dominated by Muslims. From first-hand experience, I assure you they'll have no tolerance for you. It's not Jews who look forward to an Apocalyptic "end time" but Xians and Muslims. And even in this they find it necessary to copy Daniel's prophetic text. Something to contemplate. Be Seeing You. - Bob Martin
Bob -- On what empirical and rational grounds do you claim that, say, Manhattan, San Francisco and Boston will eventually be dominated by Muslims? And why would you prefer to live in Jerusalem over the cities I mentioned? - Sean McBride
Bob -- why do you spell "Christian" as "xian" and "Christianity" as "xianity"? - Sean McBride
Sean, your fanaticism stems from your personal crusade against what you call "Abrahamic cults." You've swallowed so much misinformation about religions that you actually believe religions have been the cause of the major world conflicts and atrocities. Some how you completely ignore the fact that the worst violence perpetrated by man against man has been initiated by atheists and... more... - David C. Cooper
David -- is this the kind of tolerance you were referring to that one finds in Jerusalem? article(Anne Barker; Reporter feels mob's hate in the Holy City; ABC News; August 25, 2009 "Spit like rain I found myself herded against a brick wall as they kept on spitting - on my face, my hair, my clothes, my arms. It was... more... - Sean McBride
David -- the American Founding Fathers were well aware of the destructive and self-destructive religious wars between Roman Catholics and Protestants that had wracked Europe for centuries. The Enlightenment emerged in great part as a reaction to those holy wars -- many Europeans and Americans had had quite enough of that nonsense. You really do need to acquire an education in modern... more... - Sean McBride
"As to the book called the Bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions, and a history of bad times and bad men. There are but a few good characters in the whole book." [Thomas Paine, Letter to William Duane, April 23, 1806] - Sean McBride
Sean, it is telling that the first example of what I called "violent clashes" that you can find seems to implicate Jews. Were you unable to find any other examples of violence involving non-Jews? Is also ironic that in this example the very worst behavior cited is that the woman was being spit upon. While I sympathize with this woman's horrific experience I think it hardly compares with the topic of this thread in which Muslims are throwing rocks, which can easily kill a full grown man, and not just spit - David C. Cooper
Bob -- can you name the three individuals whose ideas were most influential in the composition of the U.S. Constitution? And are you familiar with their views on religion, and on Judaism in particular? Do you know who was the primary author of U.S. Constitution? Are you familiar with his views on religion? Your statements on this subject so far have been radically out of touch with historical reality, and seem to be motivated by cult beliefs, not based on objective scholarship. - Sean McBride
Bob -- why do you spell "Christian" as xian? The spelling doesn't convey a sense of respect. - Sean McBride
Bob -- your assertion that Paine focused his disgust on the Christian part of the Bible is false. Yet another Paine quote: "The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion. It has been the most destructive to the peace of man since man began... more... - Sean McBride
Sean: Not only could I name them, I could tell you what they had for breakfast on April 1, 1776, and other trivial details. And then what? You're living in a very restricted world and think that just because you don't know something it isn't true or doesn't exist. In Kabbalistic terms, this is the realm of Samael -- Do some research. The Constitution was inspired mainly by Torah, in... more... - Bob Martin
Bob -- you didn't mention any names. The "Father of the Constitution" is generally considered to be James Madison, who was especially concerned about maintaining a strict separation between church and state. Three thinkers who strongly influenced the Constitution were Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine. We've seen what Paine thought about the Bible in the above quotes. If... more... - Sean McBride
Sean: You're a mile wide and an inch deep. By strict definition an idiot Information about the influence of Torah on the Framers is available. David provided two good links to get you started. Study them. I know Prof. Eidelberg and his research is solid. Enough of this sophistic bullshit. Revert to Islam - they always welcome another idiot to their herd. - Bob Martin
Bob -- can you point to any praise for the Torah, or acknowledgments of its influence on their thinking, in the writings of Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and other American Founding Fathers? Shouldn't it be rather a giveaway that the American Founding Fathers were strongly opposed to theocracies, and that the Torah is intensely theocratic at the core? And why would you... more... - Sean McBride
Bob -- are you referring to Paul Eidelberg, the head of the Yasmim Israel Party? "The party was founded during the term of the 13th Knesset in the mid 1990s when Shaul Gutman broke away from Moledet, another right-wing party. The party ran in the 1996 elections, but failed to cross the electoral threshold of 1.5% and did not win a seat. In the 2003 elections the party ran a joint list... more... - Sean McBride
Bob -- I just ordered a copy of Eidelberg's book through interlibrary loan: book(Paul Eidelberg; The Philosophy of the American Constitution: A Reinterpretation of the Intentions of the Founding Fathers; 1968; Free Press I've browsed around a bit and discovered that it has had little impact on mainstream scholarship on the intellectual origins of... more... - Sean McBride
Sean, since you venerate the American founders here is a quote for you: John Adams wrote, "I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation." Adams added, "I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the... more... - David C. Cooper
David -- some of the American Founding Fathers reinvented the Western monotheistic tradition within a Deist framework -- much as both Christianity and Islam reinvented elements of Judaism to suit their own purposes. They combined these strains of thought with the Greek and Roman traditions, the Common Law legal tradition, British skepticism and dissent, and the European Enlightenment.... more... - Sean McBride
"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?" -- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815 - Sean McBride
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" -- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816 - Sean McBride
"Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it." -- John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816, from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief - Sean McBride
Sean, you claim that the founders "reinvented" western religion. Are you claiming that the Constitutional Republic they created here in the U.S. is a new religion? And if they "despised" theocratic ideologies why would they create a new one to replace the old? I would agree that the founders drew from all of the sources you mentioned to develop the system of government we used to enjoy... more... - David C. Cooper
Sean, re: John Adams to Thomas Jefferson June 20, 1815 – I would agree with John Adams. G-d created man with free will for a reason. He wants us to choose to follow his laws not be compelled or forced. - David C. Cooper
David -- no: the Founders did not create a new religion or theocracy. They created a political system based on rational thought, and which is open-ended, subject to endless revision and reinvention as our knowledge of the universe improves. And I agree with you that the Jewish tradition as a whole is a treasure house of valuable ideas and values, including skepticism and "wrestling with God," that has played a central and positive role in the development of American culture. - Sean McBride
Sean, re: John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816. Okay, so Adams is questioning how "fables, tales and legends" from other cultures have been grafted onto Jewish and Xian theology and how those additions have contributed to making them appear more violent than they were to begin with. Note that I would not dream of denying that there are some terribly... more... - David C. Cooper
Sean, re: John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816 (the second quote from this source that you posted above) I would absolutely agree that superstition and dogma cannot confine man's G-d given free will. It is central to Judaism that we argue and question everything. - David C. Cooper
Sean, so where is the new monotheistic tradtion within a deist framework that you described? - David C. Cooper
David -- I think Adams' point was that violent and irrational superstitions and bigotry are deeply enwound in the Judeo-Christian tradition itself. And I agree with you that Judaism as a whole (especially Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism) has worked diligently to process, reinterpret and expunge much of that cruft in positive ways. - Sean McBride
David -- where is the new tradition that the Enlightenment set in motion? We're in the midst of it. It's a process. It's part of a perpetual pursuit for truth. We're figuring it out as we go along. - Sean McBride
Irrational superstition and bigotry are hard-wired in the Human Prototype. Atheism has produced tyrants who equal any King or Priest in brutality against those who disagree with them. For example: Jacobins, Marxists, and students of Jean-Paul Sarte. - Bob Martin
True enough: secular messianic movements produced 100 million deaths in the 20th century alone: Marxism, Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism, etc. And in many cases religion has served as a brake on totalitarianism and genocidal barbarity. - Sean McBride
Superstition and bigotry are mechanisms in our psyche that have a destructive purpose. When we balance them with a relationship with our common Creator we can learn to turn away from destructive mechanisms and pick up the constructive mechanisms of cooperation and teamwork. The path to peace in this story would be for the Islamic authorities whom the nation of Israel has entrusted to... more... - David C. Cooper
David -- you finally said something I can agree with -- all religions should be allowed to pray peacefully everywhere in Jerusalem. Jerusalem should become the world capital of religious tolerance instead of the world capital of religious fanaticism and hatred. - Sean McBride
It's been quite a while, but I've read everything he wrote and don't recall Thomas Paine writing this anywhere and am fairly certain I'd remember him saying this. What about Mocka? Or how about your living room? The only religious fanaticism and hatred in Jerusalem is that found in Islam and most (but not all) xian groups who agitate against Jewish sovereignty there. - Bob Martin
Bob -- which specific Thomas Paine quote are you disputing? Why do you spell "Christian" as "xian"? And are you really claiming that there is no Jewish religious fanaticism or hatred revolving around Jerusalem? That only Muslims and Christians are to blame? - Sean McBride
Bob -- more regarding Thomas Paine's views on the Bible: "In the following letter Thomas Paine replies to a friend who recently tried to oblige Paine to accept Christianity and the Bible as the “word of God.” Paine in no uncertain terms makes it clear to his friend that no discerning gentleman will accept the Bible as the word of God. In Paine’s opinion, “the Bible is a gross libel... more... - Sean McBride
Thomas Paine is like Moses to you, and his writings the equivalent of Torah (sacred, indisputable revelation). I don't recall Paine-Moses giving a mitzvah to make Yerushalayim a place of prayer for all people. I've already answered the xian thing. Modern "xian zionist" rhetoric aside, from the perspective of theology and eschatology, xianity and islam share a basic view of Jews, and a... more... - Bob Martin
Bob -- 1. I am my own Moses, and I don't blindly agree with everything Thomas Paine wrote. This subject only came up because David Cooper claimed that Paine was a fan of the Torah -- that is a wildly false statement. The record has now been corrected. 2. I didn't see your explanation for the spelling of "Christian" as "xian." What is the ideological and doctrinal background on that peculiar habit? And do you respect Christianity as a religion and belief system? - Sean McBride
You're a broken record (or in these days, a glitched CD track). Good that you confess what you are: "a self-made man who worships his creator." The misanthrope alcoholic Paine figures large in your "self-made men" pantheon. You just didn't read what I said about writing xian. Around age 9 or 10 I started writing xian, xianity. Already at that age I understood what xians had done to Jews... more... - Bob Martin
Bob -- so your point of view is that Christianity is a false religion and that Christians are brainwashed? The "xianity" spelling is your way of expressing contempt for Christianity as a whole? By the way, with which branch of Judaism are you affiliated? Ultra-Orthodox, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist? Which Jewish thinkers have most influenced you? - Sean McBride
Bob -- is the Noahide movement closely associated with Chabad-Lubavitch, Menachem Mendel Schneerson and Billy Jack Dial? - Sean McBride
B'nai No'ah was started by Vendyl Jones and R' Meir Kahane ZT'L HY'D. Other Torah-observant Rabbis quickly joined the movement and today there are many B'nai No'ah groups, Chabad sponsoring some of them. Fearing political repercussions, Rabbis at the 1990 founding ceremony refused to appear on the same stage as Rav Kahane. Vendyl arranged for Rav Kahane to speak after the convention. The video of his speech is here - Bob Martin
Bob -- thanks for the historical background on the movement. - Sean McBride
I wonder why Friendfeed isn't pushing this thread towards the top of the queue for this group when new comments are added -- I noticed the new comments only by accident, and could have easily missed them. - Sean McBride
Wikipedia; Vendyl Jones - Sean McBride
Bob: have you seen these two articles today? article(Amos Harel; Alleged Jewish terrorist arrested for murder, series of bomb attacks; Haaretz; November 1, 2009 and article(Chaim Levinson; Who is suspected Jewish terrorist Yaakov Teitel?; Haaretz; November 1, 2009 How likely do you think it is that Teitel has Kahanist connections? - Sean McBride
Bob: my "ideology": maximize human creativity; minimize human suffering; free speech; freedom of assembly; checks and balances; government transparency and accountability; meritocracy; creative capitalism; scientific inquiry; skepticism; separation of church and state; ethnic and religious tolerance and cooperation - Sean McBride
Sean: 99% of what you say is exactly what Torah is all about. - Bob Martin
Bob Martin
Bob Martin
Cognitive Warfare and the Role of the Media
Bob Martin
Bob Martin
Assessment of US Military Aid to Fatah US
Bob Martin
Israel's State Prosecution Pursues Jewish Dissidents ("Right-wingers")
Bob Martin
Israeli Police, Courts Lenient with Leftist Activist
Bob Martin
Contrary to the modern Economic theory which is based on the assumptions of scarcity of resources and unlimited needs of consumers, Economics of the Torah is based on God’s resources which are enough for all true needs of His people
Bob Martin
Intelligence & Terrorism Information Center
Bob Martin
An Ancient Constitution (Thanks to David C. Cooper for this reference)
Bob Martin
Jewish Roots of American Constitution (Thanks to David C. Cooper for this reference)
Bob Martin
NGO: Obama's Israel Policy Violates International Treaties
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