Sean, if only I knew. This was delivered directly to me fresh and hot.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Wow, whatever you do, don't google "Asian guys at beach licking" if you want to find the Flickr account for this. No, seriously. Just...don't. o.O
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
changed my life forever...I will always go to the beach with a a few chubby buddies after porking myself up for those bosoms ~ and this image is most definitely going in the ol' spank bank
- sofarsoShawn
Remember ! I bring quality product to Friend Feed !:)
- Akiva Moskovitz
you know what would be funny: ok bear with me, if we blindfolded leather donut (you know the booby man) and...yeah fill in the blanks...something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- sofarsoShawn
Sir, randomly linking to your FriendFeed from one of my posts is oh wait you'll never see this because you're blocked for spamming. Thanks anyway, kaghazrangy.
- Akiva Moskovitz
damn this picture just won't go away - you have forced me to hide it
- William Harryman
Akiva, wasn't that pic taken at your last BBQ?
- Paul
Every time I see this picture I smile. Their joy is infectious, like herpes.
- Sparky
Paul, I surely do wish I had a beach in my back yard!
- Akiva Moskovitz
Sparky, I'm going to have this blown up to poster-size and attaching it to the ceiling above our bed. That'll cause some infections!
- Akiva Moskovitz
makes me want to grow a rack and diddle with my own, know what I'm saying?
- sofarsoShawn
this. . . .this. . . ugh . . . so fucking wrong.
- Peter Ghosh
Akiva - you can put anything you want above our bed.
- Sparky
i've been trying to formulate a comment for this for days, but i just...can't.
- joey
I still want to know the motivation here. is this a gay marriage argument? or are we already pushing group social contracts on friendfeed?
- Noah David Simon
oh man this one keeps popping up on ma friendfeed,....must spread virus nao
- Chris Hofmann
I'm surprised no one's noticed old boy's red-framed glasses.
- Akiva Moskovitz
oh right... the glasses are so important when three asian men are licking his nipples and all the comments are by people who think gay marriage has something to do with equality... when it has everything to do with taking protections away from children. the red glass glasses.... um yeah. chicken and Oklahoma with milk
- Noah David Simon
Mark, you have uncovered the dark underbelly of humanity except in this case it isn't dark but is rather a pasty hue somewhere in the vicinity of undercooked flan.
- Akiva Moskovitz
This should be in the default noobie FF stream. Like the first thing anyone who signs up sees. If they stick around they're part of the family.
- Internet's Tad
Perhaps this can replace the kitty pic on the start page for non-members!
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I'm certain prop8 had nothing to do with Swine Flu
- Noah David Simon
I'm thinking that eventually, it will have been hidden by every user on FriendFeed. It'll be the most hidden post in FriendFeed history.
- Akiva Moskovitz
WHY WHY KEEP BRINGING BACK THE EYES THEY HURT ME
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Herpes (and this): the gifts that keep on giving.
- Sparky
I wonder if the FriendFeed guys see this and say to themselves, 'Well, this isn't exactly what we had in mind when we started started FriendFeed.'
- Akiva Moskovitz
I look at it and think, "Not again."
- Steven Perez
from IM
Just about the time you FF is getting some class .. Oh well we is what we is.
- Brent - Happy T Day
I can't believe after all this time some diligent FF'er hasn't dug up the identities (I said "titties") of this bunch and invited them to join the service that made them famous. Mitchell Tsai, get to work!
- Sprague D
i think if you unlike and delete all your comments anna it'll go away, but hide in general would be nice too (this photo makes me smile every time it pops up so don't mind it)...
- mike "glemak" dunn
*sigh* This is never going away, is it? It's gonna end up like James Bond movies and Swedish meatballs - always existing in the same form. never diminshing, never forgotten. :( :( :(
- Steven Perez
from IM
It will go away, to be replaced with photoshops of the original. It's all part of the meme lifecycle.
- Sparky
I am too new on friendfeed to know anything about record comments.. I love gmail tho, puts all the comments in one threaded email and I can delete them all later in one shot or not if I choose..
- David Gross
from email
well we should aim to beat the record.. i mean jeez there are tons of things that could be said about this.. like.. does it taste like chicken?
- ed fry
I'm gonna have nightmares now. thanks ed. ;)
- Alejandro
ok, in Japanese: "an, an, soko dame!"
- Rick Cogley
You can't close this thread. A lot of people say that this place is a Scoble-fest but, truly, it is this thread that is at the very heart of FriendFeed.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'm officially going to proclaim that this is the FF equivalent of Goatse or FFoatse if you will. Lets all refer to it as that from this point forward.
- Mark Krynsky
Sparky has left 57 comments. The rest of you are slacking. Hop to it!
- Christopher Harley
Chrisitan just walked by and said "It's too early in the morning for Japanese titty licking." It's NEVER too early for Japanese titty licking.
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
THIS is the first thing I see here this morning?
- l0ckergn0me
Chris, you just woke up? C'mon, man! It's 10:30!
- Akiva Moskovitz
I knew he would break eventually - it's fitting that it's on this thread *now to find out how to hide a thread once you've commented....*
- WorldofHiglet
As much as I am loathe to bump this post, I have to do it to say, You, sir, are a master. Well played, sir. Well played. This is why I take every opportunity to say, in my next life, I want to be Akiva. I've already called it! Don't anybody go getting any more ideas.
- ♥patricia♥
I, for one, refuse to "bump" posts...it's very unseemly...
- Live4Emma (L4S)
I wish FF-search allowed to do GROUP BY -aggregations so I could COUNT(*) who are the biggest *bump*ers. :)
- Jemm
Makes me laugh everytime I see it. Such a happy yet silly scene by the sea.
- Toby Graham
There is nothing silly about it. This is serious business.
- Sparky
The more I see this, the more I like it. Not for the ironic nipple-licking, but because these kids are genuinely enjoying themselves. :) Carry on.
- felicious
This photo looks so much better in iPhone 3.0!#!~
- Akiva Moskovitz
Seriously dude. What do I have to do to get rid of this disgusting picture!? Doh! Now I've just pushed it back to the top... yuck, I'm so sickened.
- Jason Nunnelley
I love this image, because I have no clue why it's happening. Randomness FTW!!
- Jimminy
from twhirl
I'm just thinking of all the new folks coming to friend feed and see this and wonder just what the hell did I get into anyway? And why in Gods name can't I spell Friend correctly the first time - GRRRRRR
- Brent - Happy T Day
Can't believe I never hit 'like' on this! Consider the situation rectumfied.
- Bec Rowe @d0tski
Oops! I hope I didn't just bump this up again... ;-)
- Sprague D
It's just so refreshing to see genuine juvenile humour at work. These kids are no different from any other, I think it's a great happy image, given all the other shite happening in this world on a daily basis. For those that are too pompous and prudish, 'up yours with brass knobs'
- ImJustCreative
Wow. 666. Nice! Actually, the reason Asashoryu is getting a divorce ( http://ff.im/4T0UA ), is because he wants to spend time with this lot.
- Rick Cogley
To this day, the pic still comes back. Just like Herpes. :D
- Danny Minick
Although unlike herpes this photo is fun to share with friends.
- Sparky
I would rather go to http://woot.com and buy the Acer Aspire One for $259.99, I do not care that it is a refurb.. but what would I do with two laptops? Maybe #hive knows? hmm..
- David Gross
from email
What's this? A real question in this thread? Two extra laptops? Make them fancy digital photo frames.
- Jordan Hofker
Reason #696 why the Internet can grant you immortality. ;-)
- darnell
from BuddyFeed
I can't believe this thing is still floating around Friendfeed. These poor guys... ha ha ha
- Bradley Farless
@SeanMcGee sorry about the spam, this thread is sorta spammy.. I get the messages in email perfect for replying with any message because it then gets posted on twitter and facebook.. I do not do it all the time, look at my other posts in this stream..
- David Gross
from email
Lactating, males last resort to save ourselves, now that they can create sperm in labs.
- Jimminy
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started feeding it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue feeding it forever just because...This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started feeding it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue feeding it forever just because...This is the thread that...
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- David Gross
from email
I have 89 :( emails since july 10th.. that includes the ones I sent.
- David Gross
from email
gmail comes in handy, it keeps all the email in conversations, 100 messages at a time but because the subject " :( " it will not filter out so they dont go to inbox.
- David Gross
from email
*THOUGHT FOR THE DAY...* Women are like phones: They like to be held, talked to, and touched often. But push the wrong button and your ass is disconnected.
- David Gross
from email
all this oral stuff is just begging the question of when do they start with the money shots?
- Noah David Simon
I just use this image as a way to announce crap. no one really pays attention to my feed... except my enemies. so when I have something important to say I tell the Asian Titty lickers. it is my strong belief that this thread needs it's very own domain name. something like http://xrl.us/TittyLickers
- Noah David Simon
You know, every time this pops up, since FF hides the middle of the comments of which there are 804 or so, I see Akiva say "I'm sorry." at the top. It makes me wonder about how some things are just not possible to apologize for!
- Rick Cogley
wow, I can't believe tomorrow is Friday :o) no, wait, somewhere in the world it's ALREADY Friday :o)
- David Gross
from email
Thanks Rick, thats what I thought.. does that mean I can start with the #followfriday on twitter or do I have to wait till it is Friday here in NJ? would be funny to post it from this post LOL all my friendfeed goes to twitter..
- David Gross
from email
David - yeah, you can get an early start.
- Rick Cogley
Rick, I am not good at lists or #followfriday but there are lotsa good people in this thread.
- David Gross
from email
the thing that strikes me about this (aside from the obvious) is after seeing this thing pop up like 35-40 times since March its just occurred to me that I don't have any (guy) friends that a) would lick my nipples b) would lick my nipples for a photograph. Maybe I should get out more...
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
I'm a little scared that I've this has gotten more than 800 comments and almost 200 likes over nearly five months and I still haven't clicked "Hide."
- Scott of Two Countries
It's just a bit of fun. I mean watching how many comment, not the picture content (although I suspect that is all that was too!)
- Ian May
Allright, you guys ready to shoot "mirth and girth"?
- Rick Cogley
For the life of me, I'll never understand the emotion people have around this picture for or against. There's no nudity at all, not even implied nudity. Less dude nudity than a beer commercial or cigarette ad, yet there are people who really really really hate this picture.
- Matthew DeVries
I found a way to get a Tit Theme, and it involves this picture.
- Jimminy
Hahahaha! It's like a telethon. And after Joey Bishop goes off stage, they flash this picture on the screen. "Won't you think of the CHILDREN?"
- Spidra Webster
It's been a while, hope the magnetism still prevails...
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
I just had to bump this once more... gives me a whole new excuse to go look at Phoebe again!
- Mark Jepsen
Hmmm, where do you think they're from? My guess is Japan...
- sofarsoShawn
The bumping algorithm includes things like novel people posting to it, in addition to thread age, and rapidity of comments. If the same 3 people are talking in a thread, it quits bumping because it's obviously a closed tea party.
- Matthew DeVries
I forgot, also you're a very handsome guy(saw the wedding images), I don't understand why you don't like to share your face. Rochelle is a lucky lady.
- Jimminy
Jimminy, it's an irrational phobia. No different than people who are afraid of heights, spiders, clowns, or Canada.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, now I'm LMAO at the fear of Canada. People are actually afraid of Canada, or just the fact they don't know if they're British or French?
- Jimminy
I don't think even Canadians know that difference.
- Akiva Moskovitz
If Friendfeed had sound .. this thread would be all licks and slurps
- Mattb4rd
Sorry Akiva, I think it was the display picture.. I have known male and female Akivas.. Oh and by the way guys I am not afraid of Canada LOL will be there this weekend.. Dave Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes...> - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."
- David Gross
from email
I popped the 666 cherry and I will get 1000 also.
- Jimminy
If it gets to 1000 will Akiva lock it so it can sink from our feeds forever? Please?!?
- WorldofHiglet
I think locking this post would be un-FriendFeedian.
- Jason Huebel
This is the immortal post everyone who uses the service must see it so WoH it just wouldn't be good to lock it.
- Jimminy
Not everyone see's it, only the people with true class do.
- Sparky
It keeps on going and going and going....
- David Gross
from email
In the Hall of Great Posts at the FriendFeed museum, this shall be hung high on the wall with pride.
- Johnny Worthington
I'M THE ROCK AND ROLL CLOWN.. AND I LIKE COCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINE
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
*Wispering to Murderface* "Seriously man, I do... A LOT of cocaine."
- Matt Stoddard
It is now September 1st, and this has not reached 1000 comments. I am sorely disappointed. Yet, for some reason, I am uplifted by the smile of this young man, who was fortunate enough to have such great friends that fateful day on the beach.
- Josh Haley
Quick let's add some comments... Gee that guy on the far left is not really getting into the swing of things is he?
- Travis Koger
Travis... bear in mind that we don't know what "main chubby guy's" right hand is doing, or where it's doing whatever it's doing...
- Mark Jepsen
BUT WE CAN INFER WHAT "MAIN CHUBBY GUY'S" HANDS ARE DOING. BOTH OF THEM.
- Sparky
@Mark, of interest (well not really) is the location of Front Left guy's left hand.
- Travis Koger
The photo of Akiva in the jacuzzi with the Texas A&M cheerleaders would be so much more popular. Now if only someone would post it.
- Christopher Harley
Noooooooooooooooooooooo! Posted March 1st and we are still enduring the wrath! "Akiva's posts, now with more staying power than ever before!"
- Nicholas Kreidberg
YAY! OVER 1000 COMMENTS BLAAAARGBLBLLB
- Josh Haley
It feels like Groundhog Day whenever I see this.
- Andru Edwards
Except that unlike Groundhog Day this is AWESOME!
- Sparky
This thread was how I discovered Akiva. ROFL... Y.M.C.A.! BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP! GAZE AT IT! DON'T LOOK AWAY! >:O I SED DON'T LOOK AWAY!!! ... ^_^
- Danny Minick
You have nothing to fear - I never look away.
- Sparky
On Fark, there was this one thread, that just kept growing and growing. On Fark, it was a single page per thread. And you could post images and gif inline. Well the thread wouldn't die, people just kept posting. I forget which one it was. Anyway, it got so monsterous, that few people going to read/post to it per day (which was only a handfull) accounted for 1/3 of the server load of the site. They eventually had to cull that thread.
- Matthew DeVries
I think everyone who has participated in this thread has 'culled' themselves privately.
- Akiva Moskovitz
What with all the copycat images this has inspired I hope our muse continues to stick around and not get lost in the shuffle of so many knockoffs.
- Sparky
SHUT UP SPARKY!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!
- Andru Edwards
I refuse to shut up about the glory that is this thread. REFUSE.
- Sparky
Yes, Vezquex, I'm jealous of those guys, it is warm there, nothing like a warm beatch..
- David Gross
from email
Yes, Sparky, they do not know how good they have it there frolicking on the beach while we freeze up here.. Hard to believe it is only 49 degrees, feels like 29.. I bet it's at least 85 degrees on that beach.
- David Gross
from email
Anyone who doesn't appreciate this thread is clearly not developing a FriendFeed iPhone client because this is a great stress test case. (It crashes BuddyFeed, by the way.)
- Akiva Moskovitz
from iPhone
Also it exercises the crap out of your thumb trying to scroll down to the bottom of it.
- Akiva Moskovitz
from iPhone
Do you need to appreciate the pic in order to appreciate the thread?
- Travis Koger
If I un-collapse this thread, will it break my computer?
- Eivind
Every time this thread gets a bumped, god kills a kitten
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew, you may have given some people more reason to keep bumping this thread.
- Victor Ganata
How does it give you thumb exercise? Whatever you're doing, why don't you either use the keyboard or switch to Linux so you can middle-click the scrollbar to jump to where you want? :P
- Tanath
actually this thread does not bother me because I get it in email and gmail groups them and starts new thread after every 100 comments. I have it autoarchived so I do not have to see on phone lol and just see when I look at my ffeed label in gmail.
- David Gross
from email
It's become a resource hog like Nortons, McAfee, etc. Most recently it won't uninstall because it can't perform a backup of itself before uninstalling - backup fail problem. So, I have to upgrade it to uninstall. That kind of stuff drives me nuts.
- Jason Nunnelley
from email
@Jason: strange to hear him called a “source” - I guess he is. But w/r/t his site, I dunno - it's weird - source doesn't feel like the right word. But regardless, not sure what you're saying here. Matt's headline - as silly as it is - is accurate.
- Anthony Citrano
Well I will give (grudging) credit to Drudge (and Newsmax) - in that they don't pretend to lack bias. They, unlike Fox, are right up front about their agenda, and don't claim "fair & balanced"...LOL.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
It's the picture of Obama with the kids that offends my reasonable taste.
- Jason Nunnelley
As for the merit of the story, it's bizarre to me that some people hail this as a move in the right direction. It's a terrible policy announcement. It's virtually entrapment. They will prosecute people they want to prosecute and they will selectively use the laws to damage political enemies. Why not simply work with the FDA and Congress to change the stupid drug laws that make it a crime to grow an herb that is known to alleviate nausea and discomfort.
- Jason Nunnelley
@Jason: as I said elsewhere, I am (perhaps obviously) one of those who hail it as a move in the right direction. And I think anyone who seriously considers the internals would understand why. First - the FDA has nothing to do with this, basically. The (federal) problems lie in two places: Congress and the DEA. Congress needs to change the law; this is being worked on. And the AG doesn't...
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- Anthony Citrano
Anthony, It's going to be abused. And, you walk a tight rope selling medicinal substances the government reserves the right to send you to jail for selling. What do you do when the law and order party wins the next election and you're eyeball deep in distributing plants to people that actually need them? Do you stop cold turkey or risk spending 20 years in jail or getting shot? The...
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- Jason Nunnelley
@jason: I understand all that. What I don't get is your suggested alternative from where they sit. So I'll ask this: if you were the AG - in light of the situation as it stood when you took office - what would you have done?
- Anthony Citrano
Anthony, it's the public "don't worry, we're going to stop pursuing you guys" that bothers me. They're still going to have the ability and will prosecute it at will. What has the administration done to deal with the bad law?
- Jason Nunnelley
Anthony, sorry - I'll answer your question. I'd silently tell my people I'm against "wasting" our resources on pursuing people that are quite often actually helping people. But, I view this as an administration position, not just the AG. And, to be blunt, the AG shouldn't get to pick and choose what law he upholds. He isn't a legislator. There is a place to have this debate. In a month...
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- Jason Nunnelley
@Jason: and you really, seriously think that the best move the President could make - on this issue, at this moment - is to "make an issue" out of marijuana decrim? Could you be serious? Why doesn't he just go barnstorming on behalf of southern Republicans instead?
- Anthony Citrano
Anthony, being a southern Republican, half of us are on his side if he decrim's medical marijuana. It's a state's rights issue. That bunch of nanny state yankees in DC don't have any business telling cancer patients in LA what they can use to ease their pain, especially if they can grow it, administer it and pay for it themselves. Clarence Thomas agrees with me. [Most] Americans don't...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Well, being a libertarian myself, I share your assessment here. Most smart conservatives are on board. But also being one with my fair share of experience both with drug policy and American politics, I'd just go back to my earlier statement that, given the internals and the current political dynamic, this a move in the right direction. The next move (assuming a new DEA commish doesn't reclassify - dare we dream) belongs to the US Congress.
- Anthony Citrano
Anthony, I don't mind admitting what you already know - that I find the DEA making drugs known to be good treatments unavailable without medical reasoning bewilderingly stupid. Seems like the FDA should make that call. And, since the government holds patents on canniboids, they obviously know and accept the medical legitimacy of the substance. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi...
- Jason Nunnelley
@jason: I agree with you. also: I assume you read the DOJ memo (and hope you'll all pardon the pun) but the smoke signals throughout it couldn't have been more evident without freaking out the squares.
- Anthony Citrano
I read the briefs on it, like most everyone else. http://blogs.usdoj.gov/blog... I will read it throughout though (right now). I think Buckley would be with me on the legislative process. Polling is shockingly NOT on my side though. I was surprised that the numbers were over 50% against legalization (course, this was for general consumption and not medical use). I tend to...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Ahem, may I mention, the pianist on the Background is Duke Ellington, The Duke... "In a Sentimal Mood" was one of Duke fav tunes and he enjoyed to play it with "The Rabbit" also on the saxophone, but who was "The Rabbit" ? who was that musician ? ;-)
- Thierry Lhôte
Duh! Sure! The Duke is the one who wrote it! And the Piano is definitely Ellignton's. That's the Duke! Ha! The Rabbit, yes I know, he's the "creamy" Johnny Hodges! "He looked like a rabbit, no expression on his face while he's playing all this beautiful music." —dixit Johnny Griffin :)
- directeur
At the end of the first take of this recording, the producer went to see Trane, just to tell him that it was ok, and Trane, who was some kind of perfectionnist said "no, I want to make a second take" until Duke Ellington told him "No, John, calm down, it was PERFECT." Then John Coltrane agreed ;-)
- Thierry Lhôte
:) Awesome! I love these anecdotes! Thanks for sharing, Thierry! - There's a vid on youtube about Sonny Rollins and Trane, a must see! Full of great testimonials and so warm!! -EDIT: here's the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- directeur
Maybe I can find context if I read more of your posts, but what's "happening" right now?
- Jason Nunnelley
Thursday afternoon. :P Basically there was a lot of chaos induced by my boss calling from China after 4:30pm with complex urgent tasks, but we both had somewhere to be by 5:30. It worked out in the end. A year ago I might have cried too, but happily I've learned not to care.
- Lo
Gah, I hate being that frustrated. Sympathies to your coworker and kudos on the not caring (a valuable skill in its own right).
- Ayşe E.
It took me a long time to realize that not caring about the company so much could make me a more valuable employee (not to mention protect my sanity). Stupid protestant work ethic!
- Lo
You know, it's frustrating caring more about someone's business than they do. I can't tell you how many times I get angry because I try to tell someone to play for eventual challenges only to have them freak on me when that eventuality arrives and they've made zero preparations.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason, that sounds very frustrating indeed! I get stuck because the owner (this is a small biz) now finally says he values my opinion, but if I disagree with him he sometimes/often (unpredictably) takes it as a personal attack. So he'll say "what do you think, I value your input" and I wonder "does he really want to know or does he just want mindless agreement?" I can be a yes man or a useful critic, but it's hard to know which job I have today :P
- Lo
My experience is that people like just enough tough honesty to let themselves believe you're honestly agreeing with them most of the time.
- Brad Greer
Brad has everything figured out, it's his most annoying quality :D
- Lo
Brad, I thought about it for a while, and I think the reason I struggle with that is that it feels like fundamental dishonesty to me. To feign agreement with a stupid idea is to suggest that I approve of it as wise. I'm not sure why that upsets me so much. Intellectual arrogance perhaps? Or the extreme aversion to dishonesty brainwashed into me by 12-steppers?
- Lo
Lo, I suffer from that as well. It's why I just avoid employment where I have to stroke egos. It's cost me much. It's about 10% principles and 90% I just don't want to compromise on inner things like opinions and beliefs. You don't get to tell me what to think. Compromising principled behavior has never proven profitable for me. Experience tells me someone gets hurt. If you are...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Good point, Jason. The few times I've been asked to do something I consider unethical were definitely the low points of unemployment. It's rough b/c the asker obviously believes the action is perfectly fine, so how can I object without seeming judgmental of the other person's morality? Such a conundrum, but I can think of worse problems I suppose. And you're so right about the cost of rewards, that's probably why I have an initial mistrust of the conventionally successful.
- Lo
I hope you didn't construe my observation as an endorsement of sycophantism. Just because people want to hear yes all the time doesn't mean you should change your answer. Hell, I'm as guilty as anyone of having prideful opinions that turn out to be wrong upon examination of the evidence. Does that mean I want my work to suffer to save my ego? Nope.
- Brad Greer
Brad, I think the problem is that for most instances where this comes up (for me anyway) there is not a lot of evidence either way. I think that the boss' attitude towards new customers alienates them and hurts our relationship. I think that his feuds with various people are not inevitable as he claims, and they're more harmful than he realizes. Maybe this is ego, but I base a lot of it...
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- Lo
Joe, I don't know about THAT, but I appreciate it nonetheless. It means a lot coming from you :)
- Lo
Can you get what on Verizon? The DROID is exclusive to Verizon.
- Jimminy
Jimminy, tells you how much I pay attention to phones. I didn't know. Maybe I should frequent a mobile website ever once in a while. Feel free to suggest one.
- Jason Nunnelley
LOL, I'm not a phone person, but the DROID sounded pretty sexy so I looked into it.
- Jimminy
I don't even check anymore. It's cool sounding, so I know Verizon won't carry it.
- Jason Nunnelley
Joel - About 1200 people are following the Twitter Team list at this point, so it must be at least that many people. Anyone new to lists is invited to follow it, so it's a reliable indicator.
- Mitch
Any idea how they determined who won the list lotto?
- Jason Nunnelley
Joel, I'm definitely NOT one of the fav users and I got it.
- Jason Nunnelley
“Central banks flush with record reserves are increasingly snubbing dollars in favor of euros and yen, further pressuring the greenback...” | “Global central banks are getting more serious about diversification, whereas in the past they used to just talk about it,” said Steven Englander, a former Federal Reserve researcher who is now the chief U.S. currency strategist at Barclays in New York. “It looks like they are really backing away from the dollar.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
Wait... yeah - I'm saying Leo because of his power to influence. Obviously, he's not powerful in wielding a producer corporation, etc. Do you consider Larry Ellison a player anymore?
- Jason Nunnelley
You people are funny. He said powerful, not ability to make lots of noise.
- Cristo
Steve Jobs, the Google founders and Eric, soon-to-be billionaire Mark Zuckerberg, Evan Williams, and Steve Ballmer.
- Cristo
If Leo's not on there he should be... maybe Mike Arrington - he seems powerful
- Chris Heath
Yeah Mike Arrington is super powerful, except when he gets spit on, quits blogging, and runs to Hawaii for two weeks. And Leo is powerful too. He's proved he can prevent fat grouchy old guys from using his studio.
- Cristo
Peter Chou. He's not random, and I've met him. :)
- Cristo
Cristo, a guy like Arrington does have power, how that stacks up to guys like Jobs and Balmer is something that i'd be interested in hearing a debate on, but you can't deny that he does have power.
- Chris Heath
Chris, I didn't say he didn't have power, but he doesn't control billions of dollars worth of assets. At least, I think the Segways they ride around there at Techcrunch didn't cost that much. Nobody I know outside of the tech field has heard of Arrington.
- Cristo
and what does it take to have power in the tech industry? an executive of a company only has power over the products and services that the company provides (along with power over other companies via contracts) - a blogger (powerful ones at least) can move a product of the shelf, whereas any other exec besides Jobs doesn't have that ability
- Chris Heath
i guess what i'm saying is that i'm more interested in what power means to people (and how you quantify it) than i am in ranking who's got more of it
- Chris Heath
If blogging disappeared tomorrow, products would still sell. Bloggers spend more time promoting themselves than anything else, and they also make lots of noise about stuff they understand, while ignoring all the stuff that's too complicated for them to understand.
- Cristo
sure, but blogging is the new word of mouth
- Chris Heath
Word of mouth is still word of mouth. Are you a blogger? Because we're communicating right now, and I don't consider this blogging.
- Cristo
let us have the link after you have written it. we would like to read it
- ffcode
Jobs, Ballmer, Marrissa Mayer(everyone knows she's really in control), Paul Graham, Jason Calacanis(maybe), Ev Williams, Obama
- Jimminy
ok i'll cede that what we're doing now is more like word of mouth than blogging... blogging like promotion/marketing when done in a shady way (see FTC's recent moves) and can also be like a grassroots kind of consumer reports as well
- Chris Heath
A. Sinan, all I got was a flower farmer, I don't call that tech.
- Jimminy
No, I haven't been, so we can roll that Foursome into 1 I guess, Paul Graham, for the simple e-commerce solution and for his efforts to try and seed startups, though those attempts haven't panned out yet, lots of semi-successful results so far. Jason Calacanis, I'm iffy about putting on the list, it would have to be... nope I got nothing, those were blog related startups that got him here.
- Jimminy
Oooh, I just realized that this isn't an annual piece, that changes everything. Ok replace Jason Calacanis with John von Nuemann, and Paul Graham, with Donald Knuth.
- Jimminy
Ok, I just saw it. Zuckerburg, really? I think I would have gone with Ellison or Bezos, now that I'm thinking about it more.
- Jimminy
Bezos is a good choice. I forgot about him. Ellison doesn't really innovate though.
- Cristo
Yeah, Ellison, just rides the Oracle Pony to the bank.
- Jimminy
Cristo, who are next to your 7 + Bezos?
- Jérôme Flipo
nobody's really talking about the power aspect... sure Ellison doesn't innovate, but what does that have to do with power? and again: what is power in the tech industry anyways? I hope kevin addresses this aspect of the issue rather than glossing over it and just making up a list
- Chris Heath
I watched the whole video and agree (have always agreed) with the existence of white privilege. The last 20 minutes, however, are probably the most insightful in that Tim Wise takes the phenomenon to a new level of understanding. Many of the arguments could also apply to male privilege, which is very real today and ignored in much the same way. Good find!
- Cloud
Can't take credit for it, SomaMoja @brokepimpstyles linked me to it via Facebook.
- Jason Nunnelley
“High population density leads to greater exchange of ideas and skills and prevents the loss of new innovations. It is this skill maintenance, combined with a greater probability of useful innovations, that led to modern human behaviour appearing at different times in different parts of the world.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
It also creates an illogical faith that someone should and can monitor and moderate all sorts human behavior. It comes from having your neighbor's overrun toilet flood your apartment, his cockroaches infest your kitchen, his dog's poo stick to your shoe, his cigarette smoke corrupt your clean air. It's a unique experience that is alien to anyone living more than 100 feet from their neighbor's property line.
- Jason Nunnelley
An Open Letter to Elisa Steele EVP & Chief Marketing Officer, Yahoo Inc. on the New "The Internet is You," Yahoo Marketing Campaign - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
Bravo Thomas. The more I see of this kind of thing, the more convinced I am that I won't be renewing my Pro account. I hope that the members will consider likewise. Yes there is a huge, valuable community on Flickr, however, it is time to build the community elsewhere. Yahoo needs to be shown that people are talking with their "feet" not just their mouths. It is obvious words don't mean anything to Yahoo.
- Kenton
from fftogo
"Don’t vent your frustrations, rant, or bore the brains out of other members.Flickr is not a venue for you to harass, abuse, impersonate, or intimidate others. If we receive a valid complaint about your conduct, we’ll send you a warning or terminate your account. "
- Pat Rice
from twhirl
Pat they didn't need to destroy a community with over 3,000 members. A simple warning over whatever they found offensive in the group would have been a more responsible way to deal with the situation. They used a shotgun to kill a gnat.
- Thomas Hawk
Y'know, Mr. Hawk, this Blessed Martyr of the First Amendment schtick is getting *really* old. You're in the habit of acting like a little child on services that you don't own, and when you get spanked for it you come back with guns blazing. I recommend abandoning this silly crusade, apologize to Heather (for defending a group in which she was called 'an evil c*nt'), and go take some pictures.
- Pat Rice
from twhirl
I'm not a member of that Group Pat. I don't think expecting Yahoo not to destroy user data wantonly is too much to ask. Even so, if a single member in a group of over 3,000 members calls somebody a "cunt" and flickr doesn't like it, then they can delete the post, discipline the user, whatever. There is no need to nuke a group and make everyone pay for the inappropriate comment made by a single user.
- Thomas Hawk
The time to debate the Flickr TOS is *before* you violate them, not after.
- Pat Rice
from twhirl
You make it sound like this group was a bunch of pure & innocent photographers, discussing - purely & innocently - apple pie, motherhood & photography. Then this one solitary nutcase posted one single message in which he called Heather a name, and Flickr responded by deleteing all the pure & innocent discussions just to get rid of one single solitary post that offended the overly-sensitive Heather. I don't think you're being entirely honest here.
- Pat Rice
from twhirl
Heather was not called a "name" that led to the nuking of DMU Pat. Heather was called a name in another group that was formed after DMU was nuked. And she was called the name (which I understand has now been voluntarily retracted) by a member in a fit of frustration after seeing our community destroyed. In a group, by the way, that I am not affiliated with at this time. The original DMU...
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- Thomas Hawk
Rather deal with the thread at issue or the members at issue Flickr choose instead to simply nuke the entire group, including the *vast* majority of threads that were well within Yahoo's TOS. They killed a gnat with a shotgun. They destroyed a significant body of user data that did not belong to them.
- Thomas Hawk
So the users own the copyright of thier forum posts??
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Man, Yahoo! sure does know how to alienate its power users. They should consult Twitter!
- Jason Nunnelley
So, a little more of the truth comes out. The group was not so innocent after all. I begin to suspect that there were repeated TOS violations, and repeated warnings from Flickr, but the group carried on in its heated & controversial way under the mistaken believe that the First Amendment guarantees them access to Flickr.
- Pat Rice
from twhirl
Surely policing individual posts in a group is the responsibility of the group admins. Weren't you one of those, Mr. Hawk?
- Pat Rice
from twhirl
Pat it's kind of hard to police individual posts when no warning is given and Flickr's Community guidelines prohibit someone from being "that guy." Either way, though flickr could have pointed out the post that they objected to and allowed us to deal with that rather than nuke the group without warning. It was not necessary to destroy thousands of hours of people's data because they...
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- Thomas Hawk
Pat, no warning of any type was given to me or any other admins in this case. The "warning" that was listed in the email from them simply stated that the group was being deleted. That is not a warning at all. There was no opportunity to respond to what they objected to.
- Thomas Hawk
It's hard for me to have an opinion. On the one hand, Flickr isn't talking, so I don't know their side of it. On the other is the credibility-impaired Mr. Hawk, who's already shown a tendency to gloss over awkward facts. What else isn't he telling us, I wonder....
- Pat Rice
from twhirl
Pat happy to have a conversation about any of the details. You'd think in the spirit of transparency Flickr would be here too. Heather Champ does in fact have a friendfeed account. I'm not glossing over any awkward facts. You seem to object to the fact that one of the users in this community called Heather Champ a "cunt." The facts of this situation are clear. This statement that was...
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- Thomas Hawk
now i'm curious to read the discussion thread that got the group banned in the first place!
- Loc
Pat, I can appreciate your desire to stay independent until hearing all the facts but the facts we know are these: Flickr didn't disclose why they nuked the group, Hawk's high profile enough to address privately or publicly and instead of defending their actions with some form of public or private explanation people at Yahoo! are literally making a joke out of these and similar...
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- Jason Nunnelley
QQ, just found out my stepfather had the cat put down this morning. I don't think I want pets later, too much responsibility and they don't live long enough, unless it's a turtle.
Or, a spotted gecko. My mom gave one to my daughter about ten years ago. I've still got it. And, I will for another forty years or so.
- Jason Nunnelley
The cat was 17, had a malignant lump growing out of her pelvis, that was rooted into the bone so it couldn't be removed.
- Jimminy
Sorry to hear about that. Pets are often a source of heartbreak. But, much less so than your humans.
- Jason Nunnelley
Wow, did you know that you have to REFRESH to update the feed on other sites! (I guess I'm getting too used to FF... I forgot about that little detail.)
FriendFeed is sweet isn't it? I sure hope the free FriendFeed engine and their contributions over at FaceBook spread this kind of sweetness around. I know I intend to incorporate a lot of their coolness into my projects.
- Jason Nunnelley
Dude, realtime rocks once you get over the rush you get the first time you see it. I break things down into groups, and especially for comments, it's nice to see the just pop up as folks add them.
- Jason Nunnelley
Scott, Yea, I'll post a screenshot so you can see how I break down my conversations/follows. Notice how I've grouped people into fairly discrete segments. http://friendfeed.com/jasonn... I flow around. And, when you comment or take some kind of action in a big group (like my home feed for example), it pauses the feed. So, you can...
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- Jason Nunnelley
oh, jinx! I would get a gaming computer. The last computer I got, I made sure to get plenty of ram and a goodly video card.... it makes such a difference. That or the giant TV.
- Yolanda
Tons of chocolate, candy and other treats that you like ;)
- Jemm
The most logical of rewards would be a new wardrobe to fit that smaller body.
- April Russo (app103)
I'm going with gaming rig. That makes the most sense and I can get a lot of bang for my buck if I build it myself. That, and it's a lot more fun.
- Pete Delucchi
from iPhone
I like April's suggestion, but I wouldn't turn down a gaming rig neither. Pete, I might need to get in on a weight loss dealie like this too.
- Derrick
If you do it right, do the gaming rig and a bike? That way you have an excuse to continue exercising and stuff. :-)
- Jordan Hofker
If you lose 135 pounds, how about new clothes? You'll certainly need them.
- Chad McCoskey
so, here's the thing about the new wardrobe -- I'm a packrat and have most of the clothes from the last 15-20 years of my life including various stages of thickening. I keep telling myself this is the year I win the battle of the bulge, so don't throw away the skinny Pete clothes yet... So, I figure if I get thinner I can start wearing "vintage" 90s clothes. That's either going to be very hip, or extremely outdated. Either way, I save money on clothes.
- Pete Delucchi
An amazing once in a lifetime vacation to a place you would never dream of treating yourself to but for this amazing accomplishment. I had a hike up Mt. Cotopaxi set as one of my big carrots - never got around to starting that diet. Thanks for the prod :)
- Jason Nunnelley
Stop drinking alcohol until you attain your goal.
- Gus
Why, Gus? A glass of wine is only like 80-85 calories.
- Pete Delucchi
Hmm, I'm more a stick kinda guy. So...LOSE IT OR I'LL BEAT YA!
- Mo Kargas
MAPS [sponsors of the long-running protocol] says: “...we will [now] be able to legally administer MDMA to the therapists we will be training to conduct our Phase 2 and Phase 3 MDMA/PTSD studies... We will be measuring the psychological effects of MDMA on ‘healthy normals’ as contrasted with our international series of Phase 2 pilot studies evaluating MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in people who have treatment-resistant PTSD...” #drugpolicy
- Anthony Citrano
Isn't there a wealth of prior data that substantiates the hypothesis that MDMA can induce dramatic emotional transformation when used in therapeutic sessions? I am under the impression that MDMA therapy is much like cannabis therapy, known to be effective but shunned because of its popularity for recreational use.
- Jason Nunnelley
@Jason: I've studied this subject very intensely (in fact, a friend of mine wrote the protocol above) and yes, there is. You're also correct, in my view, as to why both are shunned. However I wouldn't put cannabis into many other buckets with MDMA. MDMA is powerful, (safe) but definitely not casual (as is the case with most psychedelics). MDMA is well and widely known for its...
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- Anthony Citrano
Start the techno music, doc. I'll get the strobe lights.
- Danny Minick
You don't mind if I smear some Vicks on my nose, do you? Oh, and don't mind my Asian friend with the white gloves. He's here for 'support'.
- Akiva Moskovitz
[The yob said:] “He should be apologising to me. What have I got to apologise for? I got arrested for it at the time and I got a fine. Now I feel all depressed.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
Just watched the video. In Aikido we're taught not to ever let someone get that close to us like that. I would have stood in stance a long time before all that and let dude grab my hand or try to push it away, etc... But karate guy seemed to know exactly what to do without really hurting the dumbass...
- Internet's Tad
I'm interested in hearing how any other martial artists would have handled this situation.
- Internet's Tad
Is he at risk for criminal prosecution for defending himself? He may be OK since he didn't use a weapon. Any Brit know? I know the UK is anti-self defense as a rule, but assume that's limited to firearms.
- Jason Nunnelley
Not just firearms. I believe the nanny-state prevents them from defending themselves even with a butter knife. Remember the picture of the silverware set someone posted a few days back? It was at a store and had a big WARNING sign on it that they were dangerous weapons! Spooky! I'm also pretty sure Brits can't defend themselves with sticks either...
- Internet's Tad
Tad, on styles of fighting: It could have been very entertaining if they'd ended up on the ground (likely the delay - his ju jitsu training, not his karate training). Ju jitsu guys like to wait until the opponent screws up and exposes himself to a take down, which this guy clearly held back at first - letting the guy close is a good thing to the BJJ trained fighter. If you're a power...
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- Jason Nunnelley
I think he resolved the situation very well. Only a coward would kick or hurt someone once they were retreating away from the confrontation.
- Internet's Tad
I'm assuming karate kid knew he was on camera. If he'd have gone to town on him on the ground I'm pretty sure he'd have come off worse legally. They love 'reasonable force' in the UK. A lovely grey area. Not sure how true it is but I heard the other day there was a significant difference about dishing out your own justice to a house burglar dependent on whether he was upstairs or down stairs in your house. Crazy. What if your in a single level?!
- 1x29
There was a lot of provoking going on for a while before he was in a mode of retreat though. It took something to keep on top of that in fairness.
- 1x29
Yeah - agreed. I don't think I would have waited as long. Any time someone gets in your face like that it's an attack.
- Internet's Tad
Tad, I think he was following training. He had no idea how good a punching game this cat had. Watch how he waits until he gets real close in, keeps his hands down to wait for a strike to the face (which would have been bad news for the attacker - opens up middle body, ribs, etc.). It could have been a very interesting video if the attacker had gotten back up and made the mistake of...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Upon further inspection I have decided not to attack men who name their daughters Boudicca. Whoops!
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Sorry, people, but the supposedly complicated and evasive “solution” to Iraq and Afghanistan is neither. It is simply this: admit we made an epic error in judgment and bring our guys and gals home with all speed. The biggest complication is how long we wait to accept the inevitable.
You'd have to elect a Republican to do that.
- Jason Nunnelley
@Jason: your remark confuses me. Or did you mean an actual conservative?
- Anthony Citrano
No. Richard Nixon ended Vietnam (if we're going for a mirror event).
- Jason Nunnelley
So wait, a mirror would be a President of the opposite party to the one that started the war; in that case Obama is from the party that opposed Bush. No problem.
- Andrew C
A Democrat can't pull troops out of an ongoing conflict. It would be seen as cutting and running. A Republican can lay an ultimatum (pick your country) and say we're setting goals and sticking to our commitment, but removing our forces at X date. "It's your country, do your part." I doubt a Democrat can do that politically or philosophically. Only a cold hearted Republican that claims...
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- Jason Nunnelley
I think you may have a hard time really determining who started Vietnam, but Truman was likely the catalyst, since his presidency started the policy of supporting the French in the brewing Vietnam conflict. I think you need to consider the Korean War as well.
- Jason Nunnelley
The clear difference between Vietnam, Korea and the Taiwan military actions and today's military entanglements is that there's a clear demarcation where one president proffered one policy. Who originally proffered this policy? President Truman. President Bush simply articulated the policy much less clearly. But, the Truman Doctrine definitely drives the W. Bush legacy. Bush managed to...
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- Jason Nunnelley
It's still ironic to me that the guys who worked so hard to stay out of going to fight in the waste of treasure and blood that was the Vietnam war would create a new similar conflict in Iraq based on false pretenses.
- Cristo
And why were we backing the French in Vietnam anyway? What business did they have there? Let's see, they gave up without a fight to the Germans, but then they created a conflict in Southeast Asia over a colony they had no right to. Remember when we were a colony fighting for our independence? And then someone dragged our sorry asses into Vietnam to "defend against communism." Ho Chi Min...
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- Cristo
Cristo, politics aside the realities of anti-communist US behavior stem from Soviet fears. The USSR was gobbling up territory at a shockingly memorable rate. We had just completed a war against a murderous totalitarian state and our generals saw a similar personality in the Kremlin. Korea, Vietnam and Taiwan were less about American interests and more about drawing lines in the sand. I don't think Vietnam was about loyalty to the French, but about loyalty to what the US viewed as civilized democracies.
- Jason Nunnelley
As for the W lied theory, I think that's not a wholly honest assessment. We didn't go into Iraq under false pretenses. To argue that ignores White House rhetoric and attitude Americans had after September 11th. W. Bush was clear that one of his biggest objectives was to install a liberal democracy in the middle east in a Muslim and once autocratic state. Iraq was to be the shining...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Jason: the Iraq War was mostly a project of the PNAC, JINSA, AEI and other neoconservative outfits -- Bush and Cheney were bit players, not originators or leaders of this operation; they read the lines they were fed by their handlers. The neocons had been planning the Iraq War years before 9/11, and were awaiting the "New Pearl Harbor" (their words) which would permit them to set the...
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- Sean McBride
I don't think it was a mistake to go to Afghanistan. The error was invading Iraq
- Dave Hodson
Jason: The same neoconservatives who were the ringleaders of the Iraq War are now leading the campaign to escalate the Afghanistan War and to start a war with Iran. Nearly all of them are pro-Israel militants associated with the agenda of Israel's Likud Party. They never make the slightest effort to provide a rational cost-benefit analysis of their schemes from the standpoint of the American interest.
- Sean McBride
@Sean - super insightful (as always). Your post really made me think
- Dave Hodson
Dave -- what would be a mistake, in my opinion, would be turning retaliation against al-Qaeda into a permanent occupation of Afghanistan -- Vietnam redux. I supported going into Afghanistan after 9/11 (even though I couldn't help but notice that the hijackers had little to do with Afghanistan), but I didn't envision that operation turning into a replay of the Vietnam War -- that strikes me as sheer madness.
- Sean McBride
Jason Nunnelly wrote: "It's proven unfruitful to hold strong in Gaza to await a calming of hatred. It's never calmed. Palestinians have as angry and agressive a people as ever, and the only way to defeat such an enemy is to kill them all." http://www.jasonn.com/node/266 This goes beyond standard pro-Israel militancy, Likud-style -- you seem to be advocating massive war crimes and genocide. This point of view explains your support of the Iraq War.
- Sean McBride
@Jason: show me a single White House pre-invasion message where the "install a liberal democracy" argument is given primary weight. The "American people" weren't on board because they wanted to install a democracy - they were on board because they were ignorant and afraid - a condition the White House and their ideological functionaries leveraged to get their way in Iraq. Remember...
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- Anthony Citrano
Anthony, it's not even given as the primary justification. They needed some veil of justification, an internationally legal purpose. When you spend 60% of your time talking about it, it's an important element. Everyone believed the primary goal of the invasion was to install a US friendly regime - outside people believed the Bush people had planned the government and invasion...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Maybe I give Americans too much credit. I'm often guilty of that, assuming they are more sophisticated than they really are. But, everyone in my neocon and libertarian circles were well aware the real reason to invade Iraq was to create a game change in the middle east. Some believed it would work, many did not. We all assumed Iraq had some of its original WMD. After all, we've all read...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Defeat is not inevitable, except with this President. We could turn the tide significantly if the President focused on winning and not stupid bids for the Olympics. Jimmy Carter II.
- Spencer
Sean, are you intentionally misrepresenting my statements or did you just not read my entire post?
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason -- I am always baffled when neoconservatives try to associate themselves with libertarians -- neoconservatism and libertarianism are nearly polar opposite ideologies. Neocons are obsessive ethnic nationalists, often messianic ethno-religious nationalists. Libertarians prize universal meritocracy and talent and are usually turned off by militant ethnic and religious nationalism....
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- Sean McBride
Jason -- what did you mean by the phrase "kill them all"? I wasn't surprised to discover that you are a pro-Israel militant -- most Iraq War supporters are. You sound like you are to the right even of Likud on matters Israeli.
- Sean McBride
Spencer -- define "victory" in Afghanistan. What would a victory look like and how is it attainable? At the moment we are turning more and more Afghanis into enemies of the United States -- just as we did in Vietnam. Violent foreign occupations usually produce that result.
- Sean McBride
From my blog: "Palestinians have as angry and aggressive a people as ever, and the only way to defeat such an enemy is to kill them all. Israel has chosen to not commit genocide." So, if you know what I mean by "Israel has chosen not to commit genocide," perhaps you understand that I'm backing the idea that Israel can't win and should retreat from the area because they can't win without themselves acting like monsters.
- Jason Nunnelley
Sean, people who are literate can read my blog post and decide for themselves. Since the post is supporting the idea of Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian enclaves and patient diplomacy, it seems someone interested in the truth would know where I stand on the topic. Or, you can clip segments of my words and twist them to mean what you like, relying on the laziness of the reader. You just called me a proponent of genocide. And, you have slandered me.
- Jason Nunnelley
more and more seem to be of this view. Worth noting that they are 2 very different wars.
- winckel
Jason -- you used the phrase "kill them all" with reference to the residents of Gaza, did you not? It's reasonable to ask what you had in mind when you wrote those words. Perhaps you misspoke and should rewrite or delete that comment. Or do you want to explain it? I've heard quite a few pro-Israel militants suggest that Arab and Muslim nations in the Mideast should be nuked en masse.
- Sean McBride
Sean, my words are clear. "the only way to defeat such an enemy is to kill them all. Israel has chosen to not commit genocide." I condemn that behavior as genocide and then go on to say "There have never been any successful negotiations between these neighbors. And, the likelihood that a peaceful arrangement will be made today is not good. However, with strength in position, there is hope." I think anyone who reads the blog can see that I advocate peaceful coexistence.
- Jason Nunnelley
Sean, seriously - I posted that bigot comment to get under your skin. I honestly don't see how any reasonable person can read that entire blog post and miss the point. If I wrote an article about the holocaust would you assume I was a Nazi? If I explained the options of the final solution, would that mean I endorsed it? Are you that simple, or just bigoted because you think I'm a Zionist?
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason: I reread your entire essay carefully (I found it fairly difficult to parse), and it may be unfair to accuse you of advocating genocide. I apologize for that interpretation. You also wrote this: "For decades, indigenous people in the area far outnumber the Israeli transplanted families. Additionally, they are extremely hostile as a group. The commonly accepted position amongst...
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- Sean McBride
Yes, I believe there are people in Palestine that want to eliminate the Jewish nation. It is common, and it is commonly accepted. It is incredibly difficult to gain the simple concession that the Jewish state of Israel has a right to exist. I don't believe this because I'm a Zionist Jew. I believe this because I talk to eastern people and I read what they write, and this is a commonly held position.
- Jason Nunnelley
@Jason you almost beg for rude comments :-/
- A.T.
Jason -- how many Americans would be upset if Anglo-Christians declared the United States to be an Anglo-Christian state? Modern Western democracies have moved beyond the era of ethno-religious states -- they are the states of all their citizens, from all ethnic and religious groups. Most of Israel's problems with the rest of the world seem to revolve around this critical issue.
- Sean McBride
Sean, FYI - I'm neither a Zionist or Jewish. I'm also not a Nazi or a fascist. I don't support fascism in America whether it comes in the form of the liberal Democrat nanny state or the big brother neocon Republican fear-driven corporate state. I try to deal in realities. I talk about the real options on the table. That doesn't mean I endorse the options. I'd like all people to just get...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Jason -- I like this last comment of yours -- we agree on some key political fundamentals. I belong to the Rodney King school of political thought: why can't we all just get along? :)
- Sean McBride
What Sean, are you suggesting that Palestinians are angry at Israel because they insist on recognition as a Jewish State? I thought you were arguing against that. Maybe we should build a wall between us, wait it out a few generations and talk peacefully across said wall until we realize that we don't have that much to be angry about. That's kind of what I advocate for most conflicts.
- Jason Nunnelley
Or, we could each buy guns and go on a killing rampage to force each other to conform to the ideals we hold. I don't endorse that option. I'm just explaining that it's a commonly selected option.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason -- if Israel wants to define itself as a Jewish state in terms of predominant cultural traditions, that's fine. But if it wants to be a member in good standing of the Western democratic community, it will have to define itself as the state of all its citizens -- including non-Jewish citizens. Equal recognition, respect, rights, opportunities and power-sharing for members of all ethnic and religious groups.
- Sean McBride
Sean, that sounds an awful lot like "do as I say or else!" Israel already has provisions for rights of its citizens. They have a significant Arab population that are legal citizens with full rights.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason -- millions of Palestinians in the occupied territories do not enjoy democratic rights under Israeli law -- far from it. And when Arabs, Christians and other non-Jewish groups enjoy as much influence within Israel proper as Jews enjoy within the United States, Britain and other Western democratic nations, then Israel will be accounted by the democratic West as an authentic democratic state.
- Sean McBride
Sean, you can't have it both ways. Either the Arab populations in the occupied territories should have their own government (which they do) or they are Israeli citizens. I don't think there's been a big move to become Israeli citizens.
- Jason Nunnelley
BACK ON TOPIC .. ;) ... @Jason: you *do* give Americans too much credit. I doubt there was an "average" American who was in favor of attacking Iraq based on the complex geostrategy to which you refer. I agree it was the primary backchannel reasoning, but it was *never* publicly aired by the administration. The administration focused on lies and deceptions because they knew the American...
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- Anthony Citrano
Jason (sorry for the diversion, Anthony): according to some of the best experts on apartheid white South Africa, conditions for the Palestinians in the occupied territories are *worse* than in the former racist South African regime. They are subjected to systematic discrimination and abuse. And Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman apparently have every intention of continuing to build new settlements (for Jews only) in the occupied territories, in pursuit of their vision of Greater Israel.
- Sean McBride
Anthony -- many Americans *still* believe that Saddam was behind 9/11 and the 9/11 anthrax attacks (the latter originated from a US government lab). So much for the political sophistication of Americans.
- Sean McBride
Anthony, these are two completely different issues. Many Americans voted for Obama because he was going to help them get a better job, obtain free healthcare and maybe even get a break on their mortgage. We call those people profoundly simple. They vote. They live all around us. But, they're not the kind of people I tend to entertain in legitimate political debate. I understand a...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Serious question: did you read between the lines and realize that Bush had geopolitical ideals about invading Iraq?
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason -- as Chirac revealed, Bush thought he was waging the battle of Armageddon in Iraq against Gog and Magog, as part of a Christian Zionist holy crusade. Attributing any kind of rational geopolitical calculations to his thought processes is misguided.
- Sean McBride
@Jason: I agree with you regarding the simple ones, and I too try not to engage them in deep political discussion. But I now think your optimism extends beyond the average American and to the former President of the United States. I do not believe he understood the underlying rationale, either. And to your other q about my awareness of the underlying ideology - I was exposed to it more than most, good sir - even having to tolerate (and engage) it over many pre-invasion dinner conversations. ;)
- Anthony Citrano
#1 I was NEVER under the impression that Iraq was about religion, oil, terrorism or national security, at least not in the way most of us think of national security. I think Bush had geopolitical ideals at the core of this whole west driven democratic international corporatism (we need a word for that, and NOT fascism). He spoke on the topic carefully. I think he intentionally used...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Gog and Magog Story Confirmed by Chirac http://www.dailykos.com/story... "The story has now been confirmed by Chirac himself in a new book, published in France in March, by journalist Jean Claude Maurice. Chirac is said to have been stupefied and disturbed by Bush's invocation of Biblical prophesy to justify the war in Iraq and...
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- Sean McBride
I'm hesitant to buy into this idea that Bush decided he was working through Biblical prophecy. Perhaps my own understanding of those prophecies is part of my hesitation. What I find most odd about it is his connections to systems which would be considered abhorrent to modern evangelicals. Any secret society is questionable. I can't imagine that membership in Skull and Bones is smiled...
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- Jason Nunnelley
So, Anthony. The original point you made was that we should just leave Iraq immediately, as well as Afghanistan. I assume you believe the inevitable slaughter that will happen in both locations once we leave is inevitable and though our fault can not be avoided or isn't something we are capable of resolving.
- Jason Nunnelley
Is this 'inevitable slaughter' something that can be held off indefinitely through a continued American presence?
- Andrew C
Andrew, I don't know. After 8 years we don't seem to be close to a sustainable government in Afghanistan. We're likely closer in Iraq. We've occupied South Korea until this very day. Oddly, Americans don't seem upset about the 70,000 soldiers we have stationed in Korea and Japan. Both are occupations lasting more than 50 years. We still have troops in Europe. Yet we don't suffer or cause many losses with those troops. It's not the same. But, we're not big on leaving occupied territory.
- Jason Nunnelley
Historically, we left Vietnam and Cambodia. Both went very badly after US withdrawal.
- Jason Nunnelley
@Jason: yes, I believe the inevitable slaughter is mostly inevitable. I don't mean complete abandonment of these places - but I mean we remove all combat personnel and equipment. If we were serious about that - in the example of Iraq - we would send Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton (accompanied by guys like Scowcroft, Baker, Powell, Wilson, et als) to the region to assemble a predominantly...
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- Anthony Citrano
You guys are still going around and around w/ this?
- Joe
As you say, the Europe/Asia stations don't incur a lot of casualties, which is why it's not odd that there isn't a lot of American opposition to them.
- Andrew C
Sorry, I still say if you allow UBL to get away with this, it will happen again. He swears to drive out the West and reclaim the Caliphate. For the three thousand innocent civilians we need to send a clear message. If we let them off the hook, there would be no consequences. I say, there must be consequences if it takes blood and treasure or else more 9/11's until the 1/4 of earth's culture becomes all of the earth's culture. Not ready to bow to Mecca. Are you?
- Phil Boiarski
Phil -- most experts I know believe that OBL has been dead for years, and that al-Qaeda is a relatively inconsequential force (especially in Afghanistan). While you are obsessing about Islam, China, Russia and India are eating our lunch. The "bowing to Mecca" scare rhetoric misses the point that the American economy is in a state of free fall vis-a-vis competitors (and sometimes predators) that are far more formidable than OBL and Adam Pearlman.
- Sean McBride
Jason -- why would it be surprising that Bush shared the Armageddonist views of the leading fundamentalist ideologues who constituted his political base? He underwent his conversion to these beliefs long after his initiation into Skull and Bones as an undergraduate. In any case, I can see no reason for Chirac to make up this story -- I am confident that Chirac was relating the truth.
- Sean McBride
@jasonn historically, after you left Vietnam and Cambodia (and we left Afghanistan, as British did before, and as you will, too), they went quite badly, but *on their own*. Some of that 'badly' was caused by things like Agent Orange, and some more was caused by their own legacy like Khmer Rouge, but what matters is that the indigenous population of all those nations is perfectly capable...
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- Michael Bravo
"He swears to drive out the West and reclaim the Caliphate." And if he said he plans to raise Atlantis after that, would you think that was a possibility too?
- Andrew C
Sean, Chirac's involvement in selling nuclear technology to dangerous regimes colors anything he says regarding people that worked to expose those relationships. I don't doubt that Bush had odd ideas about the middle east. But, in the end he's a worldly educated guy. Maybe his ideas are horribly bad. But, I think he had terrestrial goals in the middle east.
- Jason Nunnelley
Andrew, Chirac is a politician who personal and nationally profited from doing things Bush tried to expose to the world. I'm not saying I buy everything Bush said. I'm not saying Chirac always lied. But, he likely wasn't forthcoming about the deals he had in the middle east and his personal fears about exposure. I didn't expect a lot of breadcrumbs leading back to H. Bush after the invasion either.
- Jason Nunnelley
Michael, America suffers from a bad case of WWII guilt and a continued feeling of responsibility for USSR occupation in eastern Europe. The US has an underlying paranoia that another Hitler, genocide may occur, and a deep fear of a globalized power that may in fact successfully overtake the US. Without these fears, the military industrial complex has no place, and its share of American...
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- Jason Nunnelley
article(Rupert Cornwell; Bush: God Told Me to Invade Iraq; Common Dreams; 20051007 http://www.commondreams.org/headlin...) "President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians..... From...
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- Sean McBride
Sean, I'm familiar with the quotes. They're often taken out of context. If I tell you the Bible told me to do something, you may say I hear voices. If you carefully slice the language up you can claim that I blogged about murdering all the Arab people. It's good propaganda. I just don't buy it, that's all.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason: Christian Zionists in the Republican Party and among George W. Bush's base and inner circle: Cal Thomas, Charles Colson, David Brog, Dick Armey, Erik Prince, Franklin Graham, Fred Barnes, Gary Bauer, Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, James Inhofe, James Woolsey, Jerome Corsi, Jerry Falwell, Joel C. Rosenberg, John Ashcroft, John Hagee, Joseph Farah, Katherine Harris, Michael Gerson,...
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- Sean McBride
Jason: regarding Erik Prince, the head of Blackwater, and a typical Bush 43 Christian Zionist: http://original.antiwar.com/scahill... "A month ago, most major, corporate media outlets ignored the sworn statements of two former Blackwater employees, one of whom — identified in court papers as John Doe #2...
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- Sean McBride
Sean, the conspiracy theories conflict. Bush is suffering from hallucinations telling him to create a Palestinian state and bring peace to the Arab nations in one story and Bush is conspiring with Christian Nazis to commit genocidal extermination of all Arab people in the other.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason: are you coming at this issue from a particular branch of Christianity? Which one? Christian Zionists aren't a "conspiracy theory" -- they are a set of particular individuals (named in an above comment) who have left behind themselves a long paper trail of books, articles and sermons which articulate particular beliefs, doctrines and plans. They have been heavily manipulated by...
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- Sean McBride
Notice, by the way, that Bush accomplished nothing in terms of bringing about a Palestinian state and a Mideast peace agreement -- that was window dressing for the real project: destroying Iraq, as the opening move in destroying several Mideast nations on the neocons' target list. If the Iraq and Lebanon Wars hadn't gone so badly, Bush would have probably attacked Iran, as part of his holy war against Gog and Magog.
- Sean McBride
To claim that Bush planned to exterminate the Iraqi people is a bit nutty. As for the McCarthy like suggestion that I'm a Zionist sympathizer, I really can't play along in good conscience.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason: the neocons sought to destroy Iraq as a military threat to Israel, using Christian Zionists like Bush as their proxy, and that is what they did. They never had any intention of creating a Palestinian state (they oppose that policy) and of course Bush didn't come close to producing one.
- Sean McBride
Jason: you said: "I'm hesitant to buy into this idea that Bush decided he was working through Biblical prophecy. Perhaps my own understanding of those prophecies is part of my hesitation." From which branch of Christianity are you coming in your understanding of those prophecies? Probably not the same branch as Bush, who surrounded himself with Christian Zionists and Christian Armageddonists. For instance, Joel C. Rosenberg was a repeat visitor to the White House.
- Sean McBride
Sean, OK. I guess in context that makes more sense. Sorry. So, here's my view: I don't wholesale buy the pre-millennial interpretations. I've read Revelations several times and much of the modern theories just don't jive to me. There's not really a clear prediction of any specific government or movement. I think most believers are somewhere between me and completely lost on the subject....
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- Jason Nunnelley
As for theories and doctrines, the term antichrist is someone who claims to be a prophet or a spiritual leader and denies Christ. It's really quite simple. People who would come to appose Christ are antichrists. It's like anticommunists or anticapitalists. "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son." John 2:22 And, Christians are told not to follow such a man to not keep company with him. They are not told to wage war.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason: you seem to be reasonable on the subject of end time prophecies, but there are many influential Christian Zionists in the Republican Party who clearly aren't. Bush 43 was their guy; he seemed to be singing from their hymn book. (And I agree that Christian Zionism has nothing to do with mainstream Christianity or authentic conservatism; it's a bizarre cult based on the same Confederate fundamentalism which on biblical grounds defended slavery as an institution during the Civil War.)
- Sean McBride
More than errors in judgment the invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq were premeditated well in advance supreme war crimes. It can't be said enough that they are illegal, just as Israel's military and settler occupations of Palestinian territory and the blockade of Gaza are illegal under international law. The purpose of the invasions was for natural resources and to gain a...
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- Ojos Criollos
Ojos, do you consider President Obama to be a complicit criminal as well? He is continuing the Bush doctrine in Afghanistan, using much the same justification President Bush used.
- Jason Nunnelley
On Maher's show Friday night, Cornell West brilliantly called Afghanistan “the cemetery of empires.” As I said elsewhere, I guess that means we're up next.
- Anthony Citrano
Maybe, but I don't think it will be because of Afghanistan. It's our fiscal policy.
- Cristo
Cristo, I'm in agreement with you. The fate of the US currency is sealed. The producers of the world have decided to stop trading us goods for pieces of paper. They have decided that our pieces of paper aren't any more valuable or real than their pieces of paper. Our elected nannies have chosen to continue playing games with pieces of paper instead of helping to build a productive nation.
- Jason Nunnelley
But Cristo the death of the Russian and British empires weren't “because of Afghanistan” either. That's not what Dr. West was saying.
- Anthony Citrano
Anthony, the question is whether we can avoid it, especially by anything we do in Afghanistan.
- Cristo
“In terms of cardiovascular diseases — the No. 1 cause of death; 4 out of 10 people die of it in the U.S. and Europe — we know that they will not die of cardiovascular death,” Fontana said. His subjects have cholesterol around 160, blood pressure around 100 over 60, high HDL, low triglycerides and very low levels of inflammation. “So these people won’t develop these diseases,” he said. “And I think that’s an important finding. Because every day doctors are publishing hundreds of papers on circulation research and medications that are lowering blood pressure or cholesterol by a small bit. And here we have such a powerful intervention that is basically cleaning out the arteries.”
- Jason Nunnelley